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Welcome to Appalachia and the 
land of ancient curses, burial, 

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mounds of giants, mysterious 
artifacts, legends of cryptids, 

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spiritual warfare, the 
paranormal, principalities, 

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witchcraft, portals, and seven 
friends caught in the middle of 

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it all. 
This is my book Terror by Night.

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It's my first fiction novel. 
I hope you guys check it out. 

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It's available on Amazon in 
paperback, e-book, or hardback. 

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I had a lot of fun writing this 
and it is full of research 

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material on that entity known as
Lilith. 

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Also tons of notes on spiritual 
warfare. 

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It's close to my heart. 
I had a lot of fun writing this 

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book and my wife loves it. 
There's something for everybody 

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in it. 
It's got action, adventure, lost

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love, and warfare. 
Pick up a copy today, check it 

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out, and let me know what you 
think. 

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God bless. 
Isaiah 46 says my people are 

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destroyed from a lack of 
knowledge. 

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So now that we have this 
knowledge, we have to remember 

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to walk in Second Timothy 17, 
which says, For God has not 

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given us the spirit of fear, but
of power, and of love, and of a 

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sound. 
Mind when he turned his back 

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from shoulder to shoulder. 
Look like as wide as the 

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tailgate of a truck. 
Good thing let out the most 

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blood curdling mind blowing 
spine. 

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Tingling string that you've 
ever. 

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Heard in your life and it cut 
through me like a knife. 

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And I knew that they were going 
to take me. 

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I just knew it. 
And then the next thing I can 

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remember is being levitated. 
Well, when I look in there, I 

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see two big odds staring back at
me. 

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Hello and welcome. 
You're listening to the Bump 

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Podcast, a place for the 
believers of the unexplained 

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monsters and paranormal. 
Join us and we'll go face to 

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face with what goes Bump in the 
Night. 

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All right, Doctor Natalie 
Atwell, thank you so much for 

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coming on the show with me 
again. 

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We've been trying this. 
I looked back in the emails and 

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it was Halloween when I guess 
it's OK to say her name. 

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When Madison sent me a little a 
little e-mail that said you were

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writing a new book and it's 
going to come out this July, 

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it's called. 
I'm going to try not to look at 

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my notes. 
Is it mental health and the 

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unseen realm? 
Is that what? 

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So that's been the, you know, 
debate for a while, but it 

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actually is not going to be 
called that because the 

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publisher wanted to have a very 
strong title, which I was super 

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thankful for. 
So it's actually going to be 

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called Humanity Under Siege, 
Spiritual War in the battle for 

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the. 
Yes, yes, yes. 

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Humanity under siege. 
That is a strong title. 

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I'll write that down real quick.
People have ideas that are 

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smarter than you. 
You know you have to listen to 

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them, right? 
Right. 

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Yeah, it's like I, I wrote that 
book that it was a novel, right?

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It was, it's a, it's a plausible
fiction kind of novel. 

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And I thought I was done with 
it. 

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I was, I was as happy as a lark 
with it. 

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And I took it downstairs to my 
wife. 

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I said, hey, I want you to read 
my book, you know, before I hit 

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publish. 
And she said, honey, this is an 

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outline. 
It's not a book. 

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And I was like, wait, what are 
you talking about? 

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And she's like, go back and 
thank God for her wisdom. 

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You know, I, I added like 
another 60 pages, like I left 

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out so much stuff. 
But you're right. 

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When people are, you know what, 
they got a better idea. 

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Take the criticism and go with 
it. 

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Yeah. 
Oh, gosh, yes. 

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Humanity under siege. 
That's going to that's going to 

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catch attention, right? 
I hope so. 

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It's because I think it's an 
important message. 

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Yes, yes, and I want you to tell
me all about the message. 

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I have a brief outline here, but
I just I don't know I'm a fan of

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what you do. 
I'm a fan of your, your work in 

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the mental health field against 
spiritual entities or whatever 

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the enemy, however you want to 
phrase it. 

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I think it's it's unique and 
it's so needed. 

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So I'll shut up and let you talk
because you're on here to talk. 

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So I'll go ahead. 
Oh, wow. 

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Well, thank you. 
It's it's a subject that's near 

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and dear to my heart because 
I've experienced it. 

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I've watched it happen in my 
practice. 

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And by that, I mean, I've 
watched clients struggle with 

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mental health issues that were 
really rooted in spiritual 

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darkness. 
And when you're trained as a 

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mental health professional and 
you're going through these 

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treatment methodologies and, and
different modalities, you don't 

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necessarily understand when you 
see a problem and things aren't 

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working and the client has tried
everything. 

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And I really feel like the Lord 
led me to study the the Unseen 

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Realm with Doctor Michael Heizer
in detail, in depth. 

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And when I did that, it really 
gave me a different biblical 

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theological framework and lens 
to view mental health problems 

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where I went back and I traced 
all mental health problems back 

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to the three rebellions. 
And so that's a part of the book

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is explaining my journey of how 
did I come about, you know, 

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treating certain problems in 
different ways and how do we do 

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that through formal assessment 
and and biblical treatment. 

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So the book really starts out 
with what I was noticing within 

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practice as a mental health 
clinician. 

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It then transitions to what have
I noticed in society, for 

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example, the massive increase in
suicide rates. 

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Yes. 
Like, you know, there's 

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something going on there we need
to look at. 

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And then also within the church.
I mean, if you've been around 

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church, you know, for a long 
time or for at last at least the

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last five years and you followed
certain leaders, there's been a 

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mass like falling of all these 
people. 

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And so I addressed that in the 
in the book as well. 

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And in terms of like looking at 
narcissism and spiritual abuse 

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and just the things, again, as 
an observer, observer of humans,

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what I've noticed. 
And then I go into what the 

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biblical framework is of the 
divine council and how where I 

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see these problems rooted 
because there's a lot of power 

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in knowing where they originated
and and so that you can 

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understand how to deal with it. 
Because, I mean, I know we've 

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talked about in the past, but a 
lot of people believe the lie 

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that mental health problems are 
like inside of you. 

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And that makes people believe 
they are the problem, right? 

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Yeah. 
I really wanted to bring some 

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clarity to that to say, no, 
actually there's unseen 

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influences that are impacting 
you that you need to be aware 

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of. 
Now, that doesn't take out your 

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own free will and your choice 
because you do have a choice to 

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engage in simple behaviors or in
darkness, or you can choose to 

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serve the most high lives. 
So there there's definitely that

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too. 
And I talk a lot about that in 

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the book, but we miss out on 
understanding the spiritual dark

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forces that are influencing 
people. 

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So that theological framework 
really goes into the second part

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of the book that then leads 
into, OK, now that we have this 

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understanding of there's 
darkness in the world that's 

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showing up in church, that's 
showing up in mental health 

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practice. 
Now we have the theological 

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framework for it. 
What do we do with that? 

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And that's when the the last two
sections I'll talk about, OK, 

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what are some implications for 
mental health when it comes to 

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those topics? 
And how do we differentiate 

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between disorders and darkness 
really? 

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And how does that look like when
it comes to treatment? 

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So that the last part of the 
book is really treat treatment 

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focused, which involves the 
other influences assessment that

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I created to be able to just 
really do a formal assessment to

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see if there are some things 
there. 

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We're not sure where it's coming
from. 

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That's amazing, you know, and I,
I wish other people would see 

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what you're doing here and, and 
model more, more help after what

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you're, what you're laying out 
here with these formal 

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assessments. 
And you're right there. 

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There is a growing darkness 
right in mental health. 

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People are hurting themselves 
more families are falling apart 

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strong like God fearing 
families. 

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I heard of 1 today that it hit 
me out of nowhere, like I 

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couldn't believe that anything 
could penetrate this family like

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it did and it inside churches 
around here. 

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I've seen a shift from I've seen
the name of God taken off of 

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churches, you know, and I, I 
hope that nobody gets mad at me 

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for saying that because I got 
people that live around here 

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that listen to the show. 
But when the name of God's taken

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off of the church, what are you 
left with? 

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You know, and I know it's not 
about the name, but it needs to 

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be more than just like, I don't 
know, a community event, you 

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know, it needs to be God 
centered. 

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Are you finding like I know you 
see patterns in probably 

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everything are are you finding 
like specific demons responsible

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for some of these mental health 
classifications? 

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Like do they have names, you 
know, do you call these things 

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out eventually? 
Like I would love it if you 

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could explain. 
And I know for confidentiality, 

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I don't want you giving me any, 
any person's business, but could

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you give me some examples of 
things that you have run into 

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and been able to to help walk 
people through? 

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Yeah. 
And I will say I am a trained 

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clinical mental health 
professional. 

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I'm not a deliverance minister 
or anything like that and I 

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don't claim to be. 
I do talk a little bit about 

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that in my book because a lot of
times people get sent to 

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deliverance ministers and they 
really aren't ready for that. 

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So I have some like guidelines 
for them to think about trauma 

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and how to view that, to do that
well, because I do believe there

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are instances where that and 
applied and people can do that 

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in a healthy way. 
But so I say that to say I don't

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necessarily like name specific 
things. 

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Things haven't jumped out to me 
as names when, you know, I'm 

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dealing with someone who's 
battling darkness. 

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And you know, I also want to be 
careful with not scaring people 

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when they're here to make sure 
they're safe, but. 

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For sure. 
You know, you have to be careful

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with certain language things and
for licensure boards, but I'm 

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not going to shy away from the 
truth. 

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But how we go about that is we 
call them other influences. 

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And then eventually we lead into
letting people know these are 

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evil influences. 
And you know, I do talk a little

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bit in the book also about what 
the difference is between 

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demonization and like oppression
and things like that. 

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Yes, that's wonderful. 
How is it received? 

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When you tell somebody a luck, 
these boxes aren't getting 

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checked. 
So this is leaning more 

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spiritual, you know, is it well 
received? 

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You know, love is a long 
surrender and love and in 

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building a good relationship 
with someone is the foundation 

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of a healthy healing 
environment. 

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And that takes, so we go into 
the counseling, you know, 

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relationship with someone by 
taking our time with them and we

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build the relationship. 
We use the normal mental health 

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modalities that we've been 
trained in. 

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And then when we get to a point 
where we feel like we're stuck 

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or they've, you know, said some 
things that were like, it's 

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glaringly obvious that there 
could be some spiritual darkness

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there. 
Like, for example, they're 

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playing video games with Ouija 
boards in them or something like

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that. 
They're placing curses on other 

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people. 
And you know, so if there's 

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something glaringly obvious, 
then we will do the assessment 

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and the assessment that 
assessments are used in clinical

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practice to help diagnose, to 
help people understand problems,

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to help, you know, really be 
able to frame a problem in a 

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certain way or find out what the
roots are. 

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So when we do that assessment, 
then we can say to the person, 

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hey, we think these might be 
some influences that we need to 

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talk about. 
And then depending on where that

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person is spiritually, we can 
definitely have some more 

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conversations about 
demonization, about evil, what 

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you know, all that stuff. 
But we don't want to put this 

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treatment off the table for, for
people who maybe don't have the 

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language that we would have 
within the church context. 

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And to be honest, even some 
people within the church context

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don't have some of the language 
for that, or they don't want to 

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talk about it. 
I mean, let's be honest, there's

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a large part of the church that 
don't even talk about the enemy.

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00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:44,240
And I'm not saying we should 
glorify him, but we do need to 

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know that there's an evil 
influence out there, that 

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there's an enemy. 
Yeah, there is. 

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There is an enemy. 
And you're so right. 

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It's like it's unless you're in 
church, and sometimes unless 

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you're really deep in your home 
church, it's hard to see. 

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There's so many varying levels 
of understanding and belief 

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inside each little church. 
It don't matter if there's 25 

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people or 2500 people, 
everybody's at a different step 

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or a different level of belief. 
And for an outsider to look at, 

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they were like, oh, they're a 
Christian. 

242
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That is such an umbrella term. 
You're right, if you're talking 

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to somebody who is of the faith,
that doesn't mean that there are

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they're open to the reality of 
the unseen realm of, of dark 

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spiritual forces. 
It doesn't mean that they're 

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open to discussing it. 
It doesn't mean that, you know, 

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I know people that think I'm a 
Christian. 

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00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:55,080
They can't touch me. 
And then there's people that 

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are, I'm a Christian and I'm 
scared to death of it. 

250
00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:02,440
And then there's people that, 
you know, face it, realize it 

251
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for what it is, stand against 
it, you know, and it's and they 

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00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:11,880
share a Pew sometimes, you know,
it's like, so it would be really

253
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difficult, I would imagine. 
And then you have the whole 

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00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:19,680
legal side of things, right? 
And professional side of things.

255
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:26,280
It you, you walk a fine line, 
but I'm so glad that you do it. 

256
00:16:27,760 --> 00:16:31,080
Yeah, and it there may come a 
day when it cost me a lot more 

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than it than it already has. 
And, you know, I think that's a 

258
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part of what we have to weigh 
when we're walking faithfully 

259
00:16:38,560 --> 00:16:42,320
with the Lord in general. 
But I think it's so important 

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because people are hurting. 
And that's what I've seen in 

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practice. 
That's what my other therapists 

262
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,400
who work with me are seeing as 
well. 

263
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,160
And so if God's shown us 
something that can be helpful to

264
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:57,160
someone, why not share that with
them so they can walk in freedom

265
00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,800
where they can be healed in a 
lot of ways. 

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00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:05,079
And I think that's where people 
are open to it when they have 

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00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,440
been battling with something for
so long or they have not been 

268
00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:11,319
able to find answers and they're
just tired or they don't 

269
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understand, you know, why 
they're not getting relief to a 

270
00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:19,680
certain problem. 
And so if we can go and find the

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root of evil influence and help 
them to deal with that 

272
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:26,880
biblically and in a good 
politically evidence based way, 

273
00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:32,080
we're going to do it. 
Sorry to say absolutely again, 

274
00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:37,520
yes, yes, I'm glad you're doing 
it because that's in in a sense 

275
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:39,240
what you're doing. 
You're you're carrying out the 

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Commission right. 
You're going forward and you're 

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00:17:43,680 --> 00:17:45,120
you're shedding light on the 
darkness. 

278
00:17:45,120 --> 00:17:48,160
You're you're sharing the truth 
with people. 

279
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:50,320
You know, you might not be 
hitting them over the head of 

280
00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:53,120
the Bible. 
You know, it might be like, you 

281
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:57,000
know, out foul spirit or 
anything like that, but you're 

282
00:17:57,000 --> 00:18:01,000
making people aware, you know, 
and that's, that's part of the 

283
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:03,560
process. 
Now you said that there's, 

284
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,080
there's guidelines and I would, 
I would like for you to touch on

285
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:09,680
that if you, if you can. 
I know it's hard to, I'm not 

286
00:18:09,680 --> 00:18:12,360
trying to put you on the spot 
like guidelines before 

287
00:18:12,360 --> 00:18:17,480
deliverance. 
That is so wise because 

288
00:18:17,840 --> 00:18:19,600
deliverance can get real hot 
real quick. 

289
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:29,000
How would you, how would you 
know it's it's time to maybe 

290
00:18:29,120 --> 00:18:36,520
recommend someone for 
deliverance rather than just 

291
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:42,440
continue to, to, to dig it out? 
Because once it's exposed, what 

292
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:46,000
do you do with it? 
Because I, I asked that because 

293
00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,200
like for me personally, I had to
go through like a self 

294
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:54,760
deliverance. 
I knew nobody that touched 

295
00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:59,040
anything like that, you know, so
I got counsel from a, a man that

296
00:18:59,040 --> 00:19:02,000
I've trusted and he, he told me 
like, OK, this is what you need 

297
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:06,680
to do and hang on your life's 
going to get turned upside down.

298
00:19:08,200 --> 00:19:11,880
Oh boy, was he right. 
But you know, you had I, I did 

299
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,920
these, I, I walked through a 
self deliverance, glory to God. 

300
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:20,760
But it, it helped, you know, and
things did it, it got turned 

301
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,360
upside down, but things got 
better through that, right? 

302
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,520
Because it's a, it's a process, 
like you say, it takes a long 

303
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:31,520
time. 
So I guess my question is, what 

304
00:19:31,520 --> 00:19:34,760
is, what's the guidance like 
before you say tell somebody 

305
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,120
like, OK, you need to go in your
closet and speak against this 

306
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:40,360
right now. 
You know what I mean? 

307
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,880
You go, go repent, humble 
yourself and go to war. 

308
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:47,720
How? 
How's that look? 

309
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:51,520
So to be honest, for us, like I 
said before, we go through the 

310
00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,720
normal mental health treatments 
and then if we feel like there's

311
00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,680
something, some spiritual 
darkness rooted or some issues 

312
00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,760
they need to deal with, we'll do
the assessment So we'll know, 

313
00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:02,840
OK, these are the things we need
to go after. 

314
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,600
We need to tackle these 
different things. 

315
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:08,840
And then we follow really, I 
would say probably what would 

316
00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:12,040
look like a deliverance model 
for some people where it's, I 

317
00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:16,040
think it's biblical based in 
like Mark 4 where there's the 

318
00:20:16,120 --> 00:20:20,600
confession of what's going on. 
So we, we would, for someone 

319
00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,320
who's not a believer, we might 
say, you know, that's a part of 

320
00:20:23,320 --> 00:20:25,960
storytelling. 
Or if they don't, if they're not

321
00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:28,680
a believer, you know, we're 
hoping to get them to that place

322
00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,160
if that's my God's will, if 
they're open to that. 

323
00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,240
But not that we're here just 
trying to convert people or 

324
00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,920
anything. 
But if they're open to it, we 

325
00:20:39,120 --> 00:20:41,760
can refer them to a pastor 
obviously as well for that. 

326
00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,760
But we will talk about 
confession or storytelling and 

327
00:20:44,760 --> 00:20:48,200
then we'll talk about repentance
and what that really looks like.

328
00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:54,080
We explained to them casting out
and renouncing like, and we use 

329
00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:58,320
terms that aren't, don't make it
so spiritualized so they can 

330
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,440
understand it in more of their 
language. 

331
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,360
Like, Hey, there's, you might 
have some beliefs that are 

332
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,440
affiliated with this thing. 
Those are the things that we 

333
00:21:06,440 --> 00:21:10,800
need to work on, you know, 
renouncing goals or getting rid 

334
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,720
of those, kind of cutting off 
the affiliation you might have 

335
00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:16,840
with that belief or with that, 
that passing happened. 

336
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,080
And, and we talk about combating
laws with truth. 

337
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,920
And so I've created like 
worksheets and, and different 

338
00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:29,360
things to really make it a 
process that's easy for them to 

339
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:35,480
walk through, but also using 
cognitive behavioral techniques,

340
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,320
which is evidence based 
treatment of, you know, really 

341
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:42,480
helping them to understand 
behaviors, thoughts and how that

342
00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,560
looks and how to change those 
things. 

343
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:48,480
And, you know, we insert the 
vocal belief in that, which I 

344
00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,440
think is so powerful. 
But when it comes to guidelines,

345
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,520
one of the things I'll talk 
about with Deliverance is 

346
00:21:57,040 --> 00:22:00,440
honestly making sure a 
deliverance minister, if, if 

347
00:22:00,440 --> 00:22:04,000
they get someone, they know when
to refer as well to a mental 

348
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:09,160
health professional and, and 
teaching them things like or, or

349
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:13,520
suggesting to them things like 
use trauma and foreign language.

350
00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:17,080
And that's, that's a simple 
thing that people can just shift

351
00:22:17,120 --> 00:22:18,840
in how they're talking to 
someone. 

352
00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,440
I mean, if we really look at how
Jesus spoke to others, I would 

353
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:24,760
just argue that was trauma and 
formal. 

354
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:27,640
He was understanding where they 
were and meaning them where they

355
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,240
were. 
Also things like don't force 

356
00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:37,840
someone to tell a story. 
Don't if they're not ready to 

357
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,200
tell it. 
If they're not ready, like you 

358
00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:43,320
have to be careful about trying 
to cast something out of them 

359
00:22:43,320 --> 00:22:47,360
that they're not willing to. 
They have to be willing. 

360
00:22:48,280 --> 00:22:51,400
Yes, yes, yes. 
And they have to be ready to 

361
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,720
share their story. 
And often it takes a long time 

362
00:22:54,720 --> 00:23:00,840
of building trust before they're
even able to form words for what

363
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:03,920
has happened to them. 
It especially if it's, you know,

364
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:08,240
abuse that's happened in the the
guise of the darkness or under 

365
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:13,800
that umbrella. 
Yeah, I think you're you're spot

366
00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,120
on with the whole building that 
trust, building that rapport. 

367
00:23:17,680 --> 00:23:20,960
You might not be the first, you 
know, mental health professional

368
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,760
that they've seen. 
And so that, you know, who knows

369
00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:30,840
for what reason they've, they've
made it to your door, you know, 

370
00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:36,760
you got all the guards up, you 
know, and yeah, I, I just, I'm 

371
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:40,120
just a huge fan of yours. 
You know, your approach it, it 

372
00:23:40,120 --> 00:23:43,120
just seems like it's, it's well 
thought out. 

373
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:51,040
Obviously, when, when you're 
doing these assessments and 

374
00:23:51,040 --> 00:23:55,000
you're finding connections and 
you're starting to see that 

375
00:23:55,000 --> 00:24:00,560
there's other influence. 
Do you feel like there is a 

376
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:07,160
generational influence that goes
beyond like, I guess you could 

377
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:12,560
use the word curses or because 
I'm asking that one because this

378
00:24:12,560 --> 00:24:17,640
is another question that I have,
not necessarily for myself, but 

379
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,680
something that I've noticed. 
People are quick to say that 

380
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:28,360
there's generational curses, but
they also seem to just follow 

381
00:24:28,360 --> 00:24:32,840
the habits of who they were 
raised around, you know, like, 

382
00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:38,960
is it a curse or is it poor 
learned behavior, right? 

383
00:24:40,480 --> 00:24:43,160
Do you face stuff like that? 
Yeah. 

384
00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,160
And you know, I think sometimes 
we need to differentiate between

385
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:50,400
the two and sometimes we don't. 
Sometimes we need to just let 

386
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,200
people know, like rather you 
believe this is a curse or not. 

387
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:57,320
I, I like to use the word 
influence because it's just a 

388
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,240
little softer and landing. 
But let's be honest, I mean, I 

389
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,240
don't think even someone who's 
not Christian, they're not even 

390
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,120
religious. 
If they had an alcoholic father,

391
00:25:06,120 --> 00:25:09,080
they would likely say that could
be a curse on my family. 

392
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:13,280
Yeah. 
So it, it just depends on the 

393
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,920
situation whether you can use 
that language or not. 

394
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:20,360
But the work doesn't change. 
Rather, you have, you know, if 

395
00:25:20,360 --> 00:25:23,520
it feels like a curse on your 
family, the work still is the 

396
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:25,160
same and you've got to break 
that off. 

397
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:29,640
It is hard because who you are 
is shaped by who you love. 

398
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,560
And so many of the things that 
we do are things we learned from

399
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:38,400
those who helped raise us or who
we were around. 

400
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:43,800
The good news is that if you are
around more positive influences 

401
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,560
now, those things can change. 
And that's a beautiful thing. 

402
00:25:47,560 --> 00:25:50,360
I'll talk about that in the book
as well, about epigenetics and 

403
00:25:50,360 --> 00:25:54,720
like the neurobiology of change 
and how I mean, within the 

404
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:57,720
context of healthy 
relationships, like true change 

405
00:25:57,720 --> 00:25:59,880
can still happen. 
And that's, that's the idea of 

406
00:25:59,880 --> 00:26:02,120
that healthy relationship with 
Jesus. 

407
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,680
That's how she is. 
So you could have a generational

408
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:08,080
purse. 
Absolutely. 

409
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,560
But it can be broken off. 
But that doesn't mean it's going

410
00:26:12,560 --> 00:26:15,000
to be easy. 
And it it's sometimes it takes 

411
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,360
walking that out every single 
day. 

412
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:24,080
Wow, what a great answer. 
You know, 'cause that I guess in

413
00:26:24,080 --> 00:26:30,440
its own way, influence to do bad
habits is a curse, right? 

414
00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:33,280
You, you nailed it. 
That's that's a great 

415
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,280
explanation. 
Yeah. 

416
00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:38,600
I greatly appreciate that, that 
that helps me understand a 

417
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:47,320
little bit better. 
So let me ask you personally. 

418
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:52,520
And I, I hate, I feel like this 
is like more interview style 

419
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:54,400
than conversation. 
And I don't mean for it to be 

420
00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,520
that way. 
I just, I just, I don't know, 

421
00:26:57,520 --> 00:26:59,640
I'll get questions pop in my 
head and I just want to ask 

422
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,280
because, you know, like I said, 
you're a wealth of knowledge, 

423
00:27:02,360 --> 00:27:10,960
you know, in your role as a 
mental health professional, I, I

424
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,160
don't know if I should call you 
counselor, therapist, 

425
00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,560
psychologist. 
I don't, I don't know which, 

426
00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:22,120
which term to use. 
But in your role, how do you 

427
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:27,440
deal with the heaviness and the,
the repercussions of doing this?

428
00:27:27,480 --> 00:27:31,000
Because I know that has to be 
hard on and I'm not trying to 

429
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,920
put it on you. 
I'm saying the reality that 

430
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:37,240
there's there's going to be 
kickback. 

431
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,280
Man, thanks for asking that. 
I'll try not to get emotional 

432
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,760
and answering that because to be
honest, I haven't always done it

433
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,080
well. 
And that's something that I'm 

434
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,040
still continuing to walk with 
the Lord in and in one way is I 

435
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,400
have amazing prayer warriors who
surround me and thank God for 

436
00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,640
them. 
I mean, I really feel like they 

437
00:27:59,640 --> 00:28:03,560
go on, you know, interceding on 
my behalf. 

438
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:08,040
And my aunt is an amazing prayer
warrior. 

439
00:28:08,040 --> 00:28:10,720
And she is, you know, she's 
retired. 

440
00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,880
She used to work in ministry in 
a church. 

441
00:28:12,880 --> 00:28:17,160
And one of her goals is she 
comes and prays over every 

442
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:22,320
office of my practice. 
She leads our staff devotions 

443
00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:24,840
every month. 
And I can always, you know, 

444
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:26,800
reach out to her and ask for 
prayer. 

445
00:28:26,800 --> 00:28:30,160
And just knowing she, I mean, 
she's anointed our door doors 

446
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:33,840
with all at times here. 
And, you know, just knowing that

447
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,040
has been a huge help. 
And as you know, I have to stay 

448
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:39,840
in the word. 
I have to stay in the word every

449
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:43,080
day. 
I have to be a part of a growing

450
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,880
body of believers, like we were 
not meant to do this alone. 

451
00:28:46,880 --> 00:28:50,560
And so even like my small group 
in my church are so helpful to 

452
00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:56,560
me and having godly friends that
will call me out on things that 

453
00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:58,080
are set. 
We'll say things like are you 

454
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,280
resting? 
You're taking too much on 

455
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:04,680
because that honestly, the enemy
fights me a lot that way. 

456
00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,800
And, and even things like 
listening to the Holy Spirit 

457
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,720
when he's trying to correct me. 
And those are not, you know, we 

458
00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:18,200
were talking about a little bit 
before the show recording, like 

459
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,760
sometimes it's like, Ouch. 
I felt that little spanking 

460
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:24,160
Lord, you know, I'm from the 
South and we got spankings 

461
00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:30,760
growing up, you know, so and it,
it hurts, but I am so thankful 

462
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,080
because I know it's from the 
heart of the Father. 

463
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,480
Like, you know, I was telling 
you earlier about when the Lord 

464
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:39,040
convicted me about humility and 
he said, you're not asking me 

465
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,080
for help every day and that's 
why you're overwhelmed. 

466
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:43,720
Stop trying to do it along your 
own. 

467
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,080
And so it's like just being 
sensitive to the Lord. 

468
00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:52,400
But I've, I have had to say no 
to things more in the past year 

469
00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:58,200
than I've ever had to before. 
And I know that's because the 

470
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:03,280
work is heavy. 
And when it's heavy, you just 

471
00:30:03,280 --> 00:30:07,680
can't carry as much. 
It's kind of like really 

472
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:11,000
weightlifting, you know, when 
you're carrying a heavier 

473
00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:14,880
weight, can't carry as many if 
you carry a lot of little 

474
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:18,160
things, you can carry a lot more
quantity because so that's kind 

475
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,920
of been the the metaphor of the 
analogy. 

476
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:26,280
God's filming. 
And again, I'm still trying to 

477
00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:28,800
and I think doing that work, you
know, like you were saying on 

478
00:30:29,800 --> 00:30:32,040
your own, like God deliver me 
from the things that. 

479
00:30:32,040 --> 00:30:34,560
And at the beginning of this 
process, to be honest with you, 

480
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,720
I did a deep dive in my own 
life. 

481
00:30:38,120 --> 00:30:43,120
I was going back generations and
really doing that in my own 

482
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,200
self. 
And it it was powerful and hard 

483
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:57,480
and eye opening, soul crushing, 
you know, but so powerful. 

484
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:03,880
And yeah. 
You know, you brought up 

485
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,760
something that's super important
and we all need to learn how to 

486
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,320
do it. 
And that's to say no. 

487
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:19,000
You know, it's a healthy thing 
to, to know our limitations to, 

488
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,720
to find that balance. 
Because we, I say we, I, I have 

489
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:26,360
a bunch of kids at school, 
right? 

490
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:27,960
I have a bunch of people at the 
church. 

491
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:31,000
I have a bunch of people that 
e-mail me on the show. 

492
00:31:32,760 --> 00:31:35,840
There's only so many people you 
can help, right? 

493
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:44,240
And when you try to save the 
world, you can't feel from an 

494
00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:47,000
empty cup, right? 
Or from an empty vase. 

495
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:48,840
There, there, there's a saying 
something like that. 

496
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,160
It, it's hard to feel from an 
empty vase. 

497
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,640
So when you're diminished, 
you're not being a help to 

498
00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:59,360
anybody anyway. 
So if you need to say no, it's 

499
00:31:59,360 --> 00:32:02,600
OK. 
It's true. 

500
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:09,000
And if you think about even the 
tactic, tactics that the people 

501
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:13,040
in the world used to come 
against their enemies, and 

502
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,480
especially if they're trying to 
get out secrets or they're 

503
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:17,760
trying to really harm in it and 
get somethings out. 

504
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,480
Like one of the biggest methods 
of torture or one of the 

505
00:32:21,480 --> 00:32:24,360
harshest is actually sleep 
deprivation. 

506
00:32:25,680 --> 00:32:31,400
And if you look at how sleep 
deprived the nation is, I mean, 

507
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:35,560
is that also possibly an attack 
of the enemy, especially, you 

508
00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:40,200
know, in Christian nations, I 
think it could be argued that it

509
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:43,720
is, you know, beyond just things
like sleep paralysis that to me 

510
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,000
are more obvious spiritual 
darkness. 

511
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,600
But yeah, I think especially for
believers and and there's so 

512
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,840
many even church leaders today 
and people in ministry who are, 

513
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,800
they feel like there are so many
things they have to tackle. 

514
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,960
And I think the enemy is really 
using busyness and a lack of 

515
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:07,000
Sabbath or lack of rest to cause
them to not be as effective for 

516
00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:10,800
the Kingdom. 
That's so true. 

517
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,800
You know, I have. 
There's a buddy of mine I go to 

518
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,920
church with. 
He's another Deacon and my wife,

519
00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:24,920
both of them, my wife hasn't 
officially lost her job. 

520
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,640
It's a really long, complicated 
thing and I'm going to spare 

521
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,160
everybody from it. 
But in December, she was told to

522
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:35,880
go home. 
She's been a nurse for 20 years.

523
00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:37,800
She works for the federal 
government. 

524
00:33:38,400 --> 00:33:41,520
And she was told to go home 
because she declined a flu shot.

525
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:45,840
First time in 20 years she was 
told to go home. 

526
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,080
But when she was when she was 
told that and she hasn't been 

527
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:53,560
back since, which is the long 
story. 

528
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:59,520
But she she said she felt like 
she just received you need to 

529
00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:05,320
rest, right. 
That's that's what she got about

530
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:07,800
a month ago. 
One of the deacons at our church

531
00:34:08,199 --> 00:34:09,639
out of the blue, he gets 
furloughed. 

532
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:14,639
He gets sent home with A to be 
continued kind of notice for his

533
00:34:14,639 --> 00:34:17,400
job. 
And he said as soon as he got 

534
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:20,600
that and he hadn't talked to my 
wife in detail about that, about

535
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:24,120
her, her thing. 
But he, he said, as soon as I 

536
00:34:24,120 --> 00:34:26,840
heard those words, he said it 
was like God told me, you need 

537
00:34:26,840 --> 00:34:31,679
to rest, you know, And So what 
you're saying is it's hitting 

538
00:34:31,679 --> 00:34:34,280
home for me right now. 
And I, I know it's going to be 

539
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:35,840
hitting home for other people 
here in this. 

540
00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,600
I hope so. 
And and I say it out of again, 

541
00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,159
not always doing that well and I
feel like it's a tug of war for 

542
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,880
me where I get to a season. 
I'm like, I can handle more. 

543
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:50,400
I have, you know, these 
visionary ideas do things and 

544
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:52,600
then I get overwhelmed and I 
like have to pull back. 

545
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:54,760
So it does feel like all the war
a lot. 

546
00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:58,600
But I mean, I do find that that 
is one way that the enemy 

547
00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,320
battles me when I'm fatigued and
tired and not rested well or 

548
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:06,280
haven't spent that just I'm with
the Lord, just being with him in

549
00:35:06,280 --> 00:35:10,240
his presence. 
It doesn't end up being well for

550
00:35:10,240 --> 00:35:13,960
me, right? 
You, you're right, you're right,

551
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:15,800
because I mean, if you're 
working, you're working, you're 

552
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:19,480
working and you're too tired to 
make it to church in midweek 

553
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,480
service and you're too tired to 
go to women's group or you're 

554
00:35:23,480 --> 00:35:25,320
too tired for this or too tired 
for that. 

555
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,920
Next thing, you know, it's not 
that important to go. 

556
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:34,000
You know, he just, that devil 
slips right in there and we got 

557
00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:35,960
to rest. 
That's it. 

558
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:37,800
And it's like medicine too, 
right? 

559
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,760
You know, you take your meds and
everything's stable and you feel

560
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:42,760
good. 
You're like, I don't need these 

561
00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,320
meds anymore and you would take 
them. 

562
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,000
If you get rest for a little 
while, all of a sudden you're 

563
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,440
like, I can, I can conquer the 
world again. 

564
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:52,800
And then you go out there and 
you just wear yourself out. 

565
00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:57,880
It's, it's, it's hard to find a 
balance, you know? 

566
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:03,040
It is, yeah. 
And and, you know, sorry, to be 

567
00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,000
honest, there, there are some 
people who, you know, have 

568
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:09,720
overcorrected in that way and 
they don't do as much as they 

569
00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:11,160
should. 
And then they don't have a 

570
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,120
purpose. 
Like God still created us to 

571
00:36:13,120 --> 00:36:15,960
work and to do things. 
And so I've actually seen that 

572
00:36:15,960 --> 00:36:19,600
as well in practice, where I 
think sometimes I just want to 

573
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:24,040
prescribe, like, go get a job, 
you know, to people like go do 

574
00:36:24,040 --> 00:36:28,240
something productive, and you'll
be surprised at how much better 

575
00:36:28,240 --> 00:36:32,360
you feel. 
Yeah, yes, that's true. 

576
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,680
You got to you got to work, you 
know, Paul said. 

577
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,440
If you don't work, you don't eat
right. 

578
00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,160
And there's the parable of the 
Talents either. 

579
00:36:42,360 --> 00:36:43,480
Way. 
Yeah, yeah. 

580
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,160
But keep it between the ditches,
you know it is. 

581
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:47,840
Don't go too far in the 
direction. 

582
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:56,040
Yeah, let's see. 
I got one more note down here. 

583
00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,600
It's about overcoming dark 
influence clinically and 

584
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,360
biblically. 
You mentioned Mark 4. 

585
00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:10,280
Is there other scripture that 
you lean on that comes to mind, 

586
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,120
that maybe not just in your 
personal life, but that you can,

587
00:37:14,120 --> 00:37:17,200
that you you draw from for your 
your practice? 

588
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:22,480
Yeah, there's a lot. 
You know, honestly, I think 

589
00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,480
following a biblical model is 
like, how did Jesus deal with 

590
00:37:25,480 --> 00:37:28,360
darkness? 
How did he deal with the enemy? 

591
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,240
And, you know, I really wanted 
to follow that pattern. 

592
00:37:31,240 --> 00:37:35,600
I'm so thankful that, you know, 
I had a dad who really taught me

593
00:37:35,600 --> 00:37:39,640
discernment and how to rightly 
divide the truth, how to study 

594
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:43,520
Scripture, not be dependent on 
what someone else about says 

595
00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:47,080
about Scripture. 
So I think that's one thing 

596
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,840
we're missing in churches today 
is we're teaching more 

597
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:53,040
dependence on leaders than we 
are teaching discernment. 

598
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:58,560
And so, you know, when I 
designed this model and, and 

599
00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:03,000
really it's just using what 
God's Word says and the and 

600
00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:05,840
other, you know, evidence based 
treatments kind of marrying the 

601
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:08,600
two. 
But scriptures like, you know, 

602
00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:11,320
Mark for the, you know, one 
through 20 that kind of gives 

603
00:38:11,320 --> 00:38:14,560
you the model of Jesus 
temptation and things like that.

604
00:38:14,560 --> 00:38:18,160
But then we'll talk about like 
how to change your thoughts, 

605
00:38:18,160 --> 00:38:21,240
taking thoughts captive, you 
know, Philippians, what to think

606
00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:24,800
on. 
I do an exercise with clients 

607
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,880
now, especially ones that, you 
know, want to have Christian 

608
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:31,400
counseling is I'll say, you 
know, write out your thoughts, 

609
00:38:31,640 --> 00:38:33,960
your negative thoughts that you 
really want to work on. 

610
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:38,200
And then this week I, you know, 
sometimes I'll say pick four. 

611
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:41,880
And it could be, you know, I'm, 
I'm not good enough, I'm 

612
00:38:41,880 --> 00:38:44,160
unworthy. 
A lot of times they're within 

613
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:50,480
that whole line of thinking or 
I'll never do, you know, this 

614
00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:52,920
thing or something. 
And so I'll say, OK, now I want 

615
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:57,240
you to go find a scripture that 
is the truth about that 

616
00:38:57,240 --> 00:38:59,360
situation. 
Oh wow. 

617
00:38:59,760 --> 00:39:03,360
So I mean, it's, it sounds like 
a simple thing, but it's so 

618
00:39:03,360 --> 00:39:05,520
powerful. 
And then I'm like, you memorize 

619
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:10,360
those scriptures to remind you 
of the truth because truth is 

620
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,240
what sets you free. 
And this we have to replace this

621
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:18,040
thought with this truth. 
So that's biblical, but it's 

622
00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:23,440
also clinical and it's simple 
things like reminding people 

623
00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,520
that we're not alone, that you 
know, when there is darkness 

624
00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,880
around, reminding them there's 
an Angel, an Angel army that's 

625
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:35,480
greater, or reminding them that 
greater is he who is within you 

626
00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:38,560
than he who is within the world.
Because we don't want to give 

627
00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:43,680
too much credit to the darkness.
And people forget the power they

628
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:47,160
have within when you have the 
Holy Spirit, what they need. 

629
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,280
Right. 
Remember who you are, right? 

630
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:55,200
You're a child of the Most High.
Wow. 

631
00:39:55,640 --> 00:39:57,440
And your purpose is to image 
him. 

632
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:01,280
And, and that is one thing that 
was so profound for me in 

633
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,880
writing this book too, is like 
one of the things we have to 

634
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,040
teach people is who they are and
what human means. 

635
00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:09,160
And I love Doctor Heiser's view 
of that. 

636
00:40:09,360 --> 00:40:12,280
Human means. 
It's a status given to you at 

637
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,120
birth. 
That means you're an imager of 

638
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,080
the Most High God, and that is 
not dependent on your 

639
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:23,240
intellectual ability, your 
emotional intelligence, whether 

640
00:40:23,240 --> 00:40:28,280
or not you have a disability. 
It's not dependent on any other 

641
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,760
thing than that. 
The status that God gave humans 

642
00:40:32,640 --> 00:40:35,360
to image him be his image 
marriage on Earth. 

643
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,280
So perfect. 
That's so part if we can keep 

644
00:40:41,280 --> 00:40:44,240
that in our mind, if you can 
keep that in the forefront of 

645
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:49,600
your mind, that we're imagers of
God, we're ambassadors for 

646
00:40:49,600 --> 00:40:53,320
Christ. 
We're just a vessel for the Holy

647
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,720
Ghost to work through us, to do 
God's work. 

648
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,680
It would be hard to live a 
sinful life, would it not? 

649
00:41:02,560 --> 00:41:06,440
You know what I mean? 
It would be hard to give in to 

650
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,640
temptation. 
It would be hard to try to sneak

651
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:14,040
or to lie. 
It would be hard to go into an 

652
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,080
environment you shouldn't be in 
because would you want to take 

653
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:20,600
if you realize and think that 
you're carrying the Holy Ghost 

654
00:41:20,600 --> 00:41:23,960
into someplace you shouldn't be,
or you're looking at something 

655
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:28,040
you shouldn't be looking at and 
the Holy Ghost is seeing it, you

656
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:33,160
know, be like, I know we know 
that God is everywhere, but to 

657
00:41:33,520 --> 00:41:38,480
to realize that if you're 
addicted, you're putting 

658
00:41:38,480 --> 00:41:42,560
something into that vessel where
the Holy Spirit of God dwells 

659
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:47,520
might be more apprehensive to do
that. 

660
00:41:48,440 --> 00:41:51,400
Yeah, but you know, what's so 
unfortunate about that though, 

661
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:57,920
is that my oldest son, he has 
got, he was so deep into the the

662
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,240
strange things and, and the 
divine counsel and Pfizer. 

663
00:42:01,240 --> 00:42:04,960
And I love it because it has 
deepened his faith 

664
00:42:05,040 --> 00:42:06,560
exponentially. 
He's getting ready to go to 

665
00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:09,240
college, which I'm having my 
moment about that, but it's 

666
00:42:09,240 --> 00:42:11,200
exciting. 
I know he's ready. 

667
00:42:11,320 --> 00:42:14,360
Like that's exciting. 
But he's had multiple 

668
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,600
conversations with kids that he 
plays football with that kids he

669
00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:22,600
plays baseball with or kids with
the Fellowship of Christian 

670
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:26,160
Athletes at school, go to a 
public school, even with any 

671
00:42:26,160 --> 00:42:29,080
youth group context, to be 
honest, where he said, you know 

672
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:32,160
what your purpose is, is to be 
an imager of the most high. 

673
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:35,760
And almost in every single group
that he says that they say, what

674
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,920
does that mean? 
And that is concerning. 

675
00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,000
Like we have gotten better as 
the Church of teaching people 

676
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:47,920
who they are. 
What does it mean to be an 

677
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:51,480
imager, to be a representative 
of God every single day? 

678
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,600
And and that's concerning. 
Well, that's like a basic core 

679
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,800
thing, but it also shows how the
enemy has done a very good job 

680
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:12,560
at attacking identity. 
Yeah, it shows how deluded our 

681
00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:17,520
sermons have become. 
Yeah, You know, sometimes, you 

682
00:43:17,520 --> 00:43:22,160
know, I have visited churches 
where and I, I don't mean 

683
00:43:22,160 --> 00:43:25,200
anything mean by it, but you 
walk in and it's spiritually 

684
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:29,960
dead. 
You know, it'll be a wonderful 

685
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,600
sermon. 
The preacher is doing his best. 

686
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:40,640
And I'm just a guest in there, 
you know, and I'll weird, I 

687
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,800
don't know, like we're like 
Pentecostal light, you know what

688
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:44,680
I mean? 
It's like it's we. 

689
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:51,880
So I might shout an Amen or I 
might give a hand clap and then 

690
00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:56,080
you're the heads turn at you and
I'm like, why aren't you 

691
00:43:56,080 --> 00:43:58,320
responded to the word of God, 
right? 

692
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:02,480
Or you might have the opposite 
where everything is like a pep 

693
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,760
rally. 
It's a feel good. 

694
00:44:05,240 --> 00:44:09,920
You know, we need to get those 
hard truths and the basics, like

695
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,760
you said, the images of God. 
We should know that we should 

696
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:16,000
hear that. 
Maybe it just needs to be 

697
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:20,680
reminded. 
I'm glad you said that. 

698
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,120
That's a wonderful thing. 
And thank your son for that 

699
00:44:23,120 --> 00:44:27,560
message because, you know, I get
blessed with the opportunity to 

700
00:44:27,560 --> 00:44:30,600
teach, you know, you typically 
once a month at the church. 

701
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,760
And that would be a good back to
basics kind of message, you 

702
00:44:35,760 --> 00:44:39,360
know, because sometimes I hit 
him over the head for an hour 

703
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:46,560
with Hyzarian type stuff, you 
know, and maybe we should just 

704
00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:51,320
start here, you know? 
Yeah, my next goal I've been 

705
00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:54,760
working on is to write a 
children's book that just does 

706
00:44:54,760 --> 00:45:00,120
that very thing. 
Like what is an integer of God? 

707
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:01,840
Who is that? 
Who is that's to be? 

708
00:45:02,920 --> 00:45:06,960
That is wonderful, that is. 
Obviously needed so. 

709
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:12,560
Yeah, yeah. 
Wow, a children's book you've 

710
00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:15,320
written how many books now? 
This is like your, I want to 

711
00:45:15,320 --> 00:45:17,040
say, 4th book. 
Is that right? 

712
00:45:18,400 --> 00:45:21,560
Well, I wrote a book that had 
kind of has my own story woven 

713
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:23,160
into it. 
We've talked about that I think 

714
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:24,560
before. 
I can do anything in the right 

715
00:45:24,560 --> 00:45:26,760
pair shoes. 
And then I have several journals

716
00:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,520
online. 
And then the The Humanity Under 

717
00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:32,960
Siege is my second. 
Like, you know, big book, I 

718
00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:35,880
guess you could say. 
I was counting your journals I 

719
00:45:35,920 --> 00:45:36,600
think. 
You. 

720
00:45:36,720 --> 00:45:39,120
You. 
Might have more than you might 

721
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,600
have more than four if you count
the journal. 

722
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,440
But yeah, the but I never 
thought I would be an author or 

723
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,120
writer, but it's like when God's
given you a message and you feel

724
00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:52,560
like it needs to be out there 
and then I think it's go share 

725
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:53,720
it. 
You know, I'm not the brightest 

726
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,280
person in the world. 
I'm not the most well researched

727
00:45:56,280 --> 00:46:01,680
or spoken or you know, but I 
like to search things out and I 

728
00:46:01,680 --> 00:46:04,440
want to be able to explain them 
where people with everyday 

729
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:08,080
person can understand it. 
Yeah, yeah. 

730
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,320
Well, you see, I love that 
format though, because what 

731
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,760
you're doing, you're taking a 
conversation and you're putting 

732
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,640
it into paper format that won't 
go away. 

733
00:46:18,600 --> 00:46:22,440
You know, you can sit here and 
you can counsel someone and 

734
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:25,120
they'll receive it and it'll 
help them. 

735
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:29,160
But we all know that you 
remember like the first part and

736
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:33,920
the last part of a conversation.
But when you put it into a book,

737
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,320
they can go back and read that 
middle part. 

738
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:39,840
So I, I love that you're putting
it into books. 

739
00:46:40,040 --> 00:46:44,760
I love that you're an author. 
Well, and my goal ultimately is 

740
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,160
for more mental health 
therapists to do this work, to 

741
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:52,400
be trained to see spiritual 
darkness for what it is. 

742
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:55,120
And I know I've said this some a
lot of interviews too, but it's 

743
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:58,800
also to expose darkness. 
Assessment is a way of exposing 

744
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:00,840
darkness and we are called to do
that. 

745
00:47:01,320 --> 00:47:04,800
But also, by speaking out about 
spiritual darkness, we're 

746
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,200
calling things that should be 
called out, called out, because 

747
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:10,880
unfortunately there are mental 
health therapists who are 

748
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:16,440
bringing in spiritually dark 
practices as treatments, which 

749
00:47:16,440 --> 00:47:19,080
is terrible. 
We're not only battling with 

750
00:47:19,080 --> 00:47:22,360
people coming in with a level of
spiritual darkness that's 

751
00:47:22,360 --> 00:47:25,000
manifesting as mental health, 
we're also dealing with mental 

752
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,120
health professionals bringing it
in. 

753
00:47:27,880 --> 00:47:33,400
Yes, but because the devil knows
how to get to your kids again, 

754
00:47:33,400 --> 00:47:38,800
here I go talking. 
I know a I'm going to be very 

755
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,040
careful. 
I know a place that does 

756
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:52,080
counseling for children as play 
therapy and their therapist is a

757
00:47:52,080 --> 00:47:57,280
Satanist. 
Now people can say what they 

758
00:47:57,280 --> 00:48:00,480
want about Satanism. 
They can say Oh no it's just to 

759
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:04,080
love yourself or blah blah blah.
No listen to what it's called. 

760
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:09,480
It's the devil right? 
I don't care if I get hate mail.

761
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,640
I doubt I will but at this point
but you have a satanist alone 

762
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:21,040
with your kids. 
It's OK to vent the therapist to

763
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,920
to vet the. 
Therapist. 

764
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:27,920
Because people don't know 
they're like, oh, they're, they 

765
00:48:27,920 --> 00:48:32,320
get recommended here, or it's 
maybe the state's involved and 

766
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:34,200
they're not vetting the, the 
therapist. 

767
00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:40,360
You have to be so careful. 
If you hear your pastor say 

768
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:43,160
something out a lot, it raises 
red flags, right? 

769
00:48:43,880 --> 00:48:46,840
But do you want to leave your 
kids alone with somebody that 

770
00:48:46,840 --> 00:48:52,360
you don't know? 
They're coming from a place of 

771
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:53,760
real love? 
You know what I mean? 

772
00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:58,880
Man, I'm so glad you said that. 
Yes, sometimes they bring it in.

773
00:48:58,880 --> 00:49:02,480
Sometimes they'll bring it in 
with New Age ideas, they'll 

774
00:49:02,480 --> 00:49:06,440
bring it in with oneness and 
mindfulness. 

775
00:49:06,480 --> 00:49:12,400
And I get it. 
You know, I, I went down that 

776
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:17,640
road too. 
Yeah, and teaching, teaching 

777
00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:20,160
children, teaching adults, 
teaching people in general. 

778
00:49:20,160 --> 00:49:23,240
Because to be honest, you know, 
you and I know about a lot of 

779
00:49:23,240 --> 00:49:25,680
these things. 
What, like wide new age is dark 

780
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:30,200
and know why certain liberation 
practices are wrong, But there 

781
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:33,760
are some people who go to church
who love the Lord and they have 

782
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:37,360
no idea why a tarot card would 
be wrong. 

783
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:41,240
So there's this education piece 
that we have to also, you know, 

784
00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:44,600
do so if they go into a therapy 
session and they think, oh, I 

785
00:49:44,600 --> 00:49:47,400
think hypnosis is OK and they 
don't really understand what 

786
00:49:47,400 --> 00:49:49,880
that's about or they don't 
understand what tarot cards are 

787
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:51,840
about and they think, oh, this 
is a cool treatment. 

788
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,400
You know what I'm saying? 
Like, I think that is a part of 

789
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,600
the danger too, is there's this 
ignorance. 

790
00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:02,360
And again, that's something we 
have to teach our children 

791
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:04,520
about. 
And a lot of times I think 

792
00:50:04,520 --> 00:50:08,160
people assume, especially within
certain Christian groups, we 

793
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:11,280
like kids don't need to know 
what a Ouija board is. 

794
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,680
Well, maybe they do because if 
they go to a summer party and 

795
00:50:14,680 --> 00:50:16,560
it's there, you would want them 
to know that. 

796
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:20,240
So it's the same like it's OK. 
Just like I like to teach my 

797
00:50:20,240 --> 00:50:22,680
kids discernment when they go to
church. 

798
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,840
Like make sure that what's on 
the screen is actually in the 

799
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:28,960
word of God. 
I think it's important for us to

800
00:50:28,960 --> 00:50:30,840
do the same. 
Like when they go to school, 

801
00:50:30,840 --> 00:50:34,240
they should know that everything
the teacher says might not be 

802
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:38,440
actual truth. 
If there's teaching or 

803
00:50:38,440 --> 00:50:41,400
something, a method that's used 
in a counseling session that 

804
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:44,000
makes you feel weird, you should
tell someone that. 

805
00:50:45,560 --> 00:50:47,400
If you question it, it's OK to 
question. 

806
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:52,360
Yes, yes, it is. 
You know, even the disciples 

807
00:50:52,360 --> 00:50:56,920
question Jesus, right? 
I mean, that's the Son of God. 

808
00:50:56,920 --> 00:51:00,400
That's that's God in the flesh. 
Ask him questions. 

809
00:51:01,240 --> 00:51:03,680
Trust that discernment. 
Oh, that's so big. 

810
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:07,360
And he welcomed Jesus, welcomed 
questions. 

811
00:51:07,720 --> 00:51:10,440
I love that about Jesus. 
So we've gotten into an 

812
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:12,840
environment. 
It was, you know, even within 

813
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,640
the church where we don't 
question leaders, we don't 

814
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,520
question things and like that 
there can be a healthy way to do

815
00:51:18,520 --> 00:51:20,480
that. 
And it should be invited just 

816
00:51:20,480 --> 00:51:23,440
like Jesus invited it. 
And of course, teaching your 

817
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,400
children to do that 
respectfully. 

818
00:51:25,400 --> 00:51:29,920
But like, that's one gift I 
really believe that my dad gave 

819
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:32,480
me growing up because I was that
inquisitive kid. 

820
00:51:32,480 --> 00:51:33,960
I have my younger ones like 
that. 

821
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,760
And he was never afraid of me 
asking questions about the 

822
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:42,440
Jehovah Witness faith when they 
came knocking on our doors or, 

823
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:46,480
you know, when there were other 
people in my classrooms who do 

824
00:51:46,480 --> 00:51:50,080
who believe different things. 
Like he was OK with me asking 

825
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,240
those questions. 
And he's one that has such a 

826
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:57,960
faith in the one true God that 
he knew that the truth would set

827
00:51:57,960 --> 00:52:00,480
me free. 
He wasn't as scared for me to 

828
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:04,040
explore and ask questions. 
You know, obviously he did that 

829
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:07,840
in a healthy way. 
I'm not saying, you know, go out

830
00:52:07,840 --> 00:52:11,720
and you know, buy the book of 
more May for your kids to read, 

831
00:52:11,720 --> 00:52:16,400
but talk to them about it, you 
know, like show them the 

832
00:52:16,400 --> 00:52:17,880
differences in the script we're 
in. 

833
00:52:20,440 --> 00:52:23,640
Yeah, because that's the thing 
there. 

834
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:29,320
There's No Fear in doing that 
because the Bible is the Bible. 

835
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:30,760
The word of God is the word of 
God. 

836
00:52:31,160 --> 00:52:34,280
It's been proven right countless
times. 

837
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:37,040
You can stand anything up 
against it and you don't have to

838
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:45,160
worry about getting, you know, 
finding some kind of correction.

839
00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:46,840
You know what I mean? 
Like you're not going to be 

840
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:49,480
worked into a corner to where, 
Oh my gosh, now I'm questioning 

841
00:52:49,480 --> 00:52:52,680
my faith. 
No, God's word ain't going to 

842
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:55,400
fail. 
You can put anything up against 

843
00:52:55,400 --> 00:53:00,240
it. 
Again, what you said about like 

844
00:53:00,240 --> 00:53:04,080
with Ouija boards, make it, make
your children aware of it, aware

845
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:06,840
that it's evil aware, aware to 
stay away from it. 

846
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:10,320
I just heard of a new game. 
I don't know how well, might not

847
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:13,000
be that new, but it's a game 
called Red Door. 

848
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:14,760
Yellow Door. 
Have you heard of that? 

849
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:20,400
Briefly, yeah. 
It's like some kind of new 

850
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,600
overnight sleepover kind of game
kids are playing. 

851
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:25,280
And I'm not going to give all 
the details. 

852
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:29,880
I heard all the details, but 
it's another thing where you're,

853
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:35,240
you're opening yourself up and 
it's so dangerous. 

854
00:53:37,000 --> 00:53:42,040
We, as you know, parents, 
adults, mentors, teachers, 

855
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:46,840
therapists, you know, whatever 
role you're in, church leader, 

856
00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:51,960
we need to be well versed so we 
can make sure to protect the 

857
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,360
kids. 
I think so much of it goes back 

858
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:58,640
to that because we got to teach 
them and raise them in the ways 

859
00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:01,520
they should go, right? 
So if you have healthy kids, 

860
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,760
you're going to have healthy 
adults and I that might put you 

861
00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:11,080
out of business, but that's, 
that's the goal, right? 

862
00:54:11,280 --> 00:54:12,960
Amazing. 
Yeah, that's the. 

863
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,840
That's the goal, right? 
Yeah, absolutely. 

864
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:21,480
I used to work with an agency, 
it was on the board for an an 

865
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,680
anti sex trafficking agency. 
And like, that was always our 

866
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:28,200
goal was like, we want to get it
to a place where you don't have 

867
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,600
to do this work anymore that, 
you know, and unfortunately 

868
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:34,960
that's, that's hard. 
There's a lot of work to be done

869
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:37,280
in all of these areas. 
But you know, it's about 

870
00:54:37,280 --> 00:54:41,200
exposing darkness and calling it
out and preparing families and, 

871
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:43,760
and then learning how to deal 
with and intervening when it has

872
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,000
happened. 
And I think we need to do all of

873
00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:48,400
that. 
And there's a lot of work to be 

874
00:54:48,400 --> 00:54:51,040
done with mental health 
professionals and learning how 

875
00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:57,840
to intervene, families learning 
how to prevent, and in learning 

876
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:00,120
how to respond. 
Yes. 

877
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:02,520
Amen. 
Amen. 

878
00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,400
All the more reason to get your 
book right, because you're going

879
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:09,120
to you're going to show people 
the way in here. 

880
00:55:10,640 --> 00:55:13,920
The reality behind the struggle 
is one of the notes that was in 

881
00:55:13,920 --> 00:55:16,880
that e-mail. 
There you go. 

882
00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:19,640
You're you're going to show 
people the reality. 

883
00:55:21,240 --> 00:55:24,840
That's a a word that cannot be 
used enough. 

884
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:27,000
It's real. 
It's all real. 

885
00:55:27,760 --> 00:55:31,120
The spiritual realm is just as 
real as the physical realm. 

886
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:35,840
You can feel it, you can see it,
you can taste it. 

887
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:38,720
You can touch it. 
Sometimes it's it's real. 

888
00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:43,720
And you don't have to believe in
the devil for him to come after 

889
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:49,560
you, right? 
Doctor Atwell, is there anything

890
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,880
else that you would like to add 
or include or maybe tell people 

891
00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:56,160
where they can pick up your 
first book and this book when it

892
00:55:56,160 --> 00:56:00,560
comes out, just plug away. 
You know, there's this amazing 

893
00:56:00,560 --> 00:56:06,480
marketplace called Amazon where 
you can find so many things and 

894
00:56:06,480 --> 00:56:09,120
that's where you can, I'm sure 
you'll be able to find it there 

895
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:11,440
so you can find other things. 
For me, it's actually where I 

896
00:56:11,440 --> 00:56:14,440
found Doctor Pfizer's book and 
people think that's crazy that I

897
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:17,760
found Unseen Room on Amazon. 
That's actually the truth. 

898
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:22,720
So, you know, God could use all 
things for his good, right? 

899
00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:28,800
According to purposes. 
But so yeah, I think you can 

900
00:56:28,840 --> 00:56:32,080
stay tuned with me on my website
for your official date. 

901
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:35,640
So when it will come out, social
media, mental or consulting, I 

902
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,360
try to put out encouraging 
videos, things to know. 

903
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:43,760
It could look everything like, 
hey, here's a good strategy to 

904
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,640
use this week of practicing 
gratitude. 

905
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:48,000
Here's some grounding 
techniques. 

906
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:50,960
Or it could look like, hey, what
does grooming look like in the 

907
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,080
church? 
How what is what's actually 

908
00:56:55,080 --> 00:56:57,960
behind suicide? 
You know that, which I firmly 

909
00:56:57,960 --> 00:57:00,160
believe are spiritual forces of 
darkness. 

910
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:03,280
So there's lots of different 
videos I'll put out from time to

911
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:07,600
time, but you know the book and 
just sharing that with anyone 

912
00:57:07,600 --> 00:57:10,000
that you know is a mental health
professional or struggling with 

913
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,200
that or just they don't 
understand spiritual warfare and

914
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:16,640
how that might look like if it 
does manifest mentally. 

915
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,960
If you have a deliverance 
minister friend that you think 

916
00:57:20,320 --> 00:57:23,960
maybe they could use some of 
this understanding of what how 

917
00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:26,040
to do with trauma in that 
setting? 

918
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:32,080
Wonderful idea. 
And so if you know anybody 

919
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,600
that's in the mental health 
field, if you know anybody 

920
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,560
that's in ministry, this book 
will be a great gift. 

921
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:42,520
Get a copy for yourself, get a 
copy for them. 

922
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:47,200
Study together, learn together, 
grow together, and we'll serve 

923
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,320
together, right? 
Thank you so much. 

924
00:57:51,240 --> 00:57:53,840
Hey, thank you. 
It's always a pleasure to have 

925
00:57:53,840 --> 00:57:56,040
you on. 
I'm sorry this took us almost 

926
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:59,240
six months to finally make it 
happen, but we did it right. 

927
00:57:59,400 --> 00:58:01,280
Yeah, we did. 
Thank you for your patience with

928
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,120
that. 
Hey, thank you. 

929
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:05,040
It was my fault half the time at
least. 

930
00:58:08,560 --> 00:58:13,440
Doctor Atwell, you have a great 
evening and just thanks again 

931
00:58:13,440 --> 00:58:15,120
for everything. 
Thank you. 

932
00:58:16,120 --> 00:58:27,640
God bless. 
That's it for this week. 

933
00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:31,080
Thank you so much for listening.
If you have an experience or an 

934
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:33,520
encounter that you'd like to 
share, holler at me. 

935
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:38,560
You can reach me at 
thebumppodcast@gmail.com or buy 

936
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:45,960
the Bump phone at 304-812-0553. 
Leave a text or a voicemail 

937
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:47,320
either way and I'll get back to 
you. 

938
00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:51,840
Also, please be sure to leave a 
five star rating and review on 

939
00:58:51,840 --> 00:58:53,640
whatever platform you're 
listening to. 

940
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:56,760
Stick around after this for a 
special invitation. 

941
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,840
If you're personally ready to 
submit your life to God and 

942
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:13,640
accept Jesus as your Lord and 
Savior, the book of Romans 

943
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:17,480
chapter 10 verse 9 says it 
really simply. 

944
00:59:17,560 --> 00:59:21,200
That if you confess with your 
mouth Jesus as Lord and believe 

945
00:59:21,200 --> 00:59:24,280
in your heart that God raised 
him from the dead, you will be 

946
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:27,880
saved. 
It's that simple to be born 

947
00:59:27,880 --> 00:59:32,920
again, to start a new life as a 
child of God, to join God's 

948
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:36,800
army, to rise up against the 
evil forces that you know we're 

949
00:59:36,800 --> 00:59:39,160
all around you. 
You don't have to do it alone. 

950
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,720
I love you, Jesus loves you, and
May God bless you. 

951
01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:12,920
From a quiet smoke with a voice 
that sounds like Thunder poking 

952
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:23,120
on the streets of gold, here's a
beer. 

953
01:00:25,000 --> 01:00:30,160
This is like lightning saying 
hi. 

954
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:46,680
The bone is strong as 10 1000 * 
10,000 Same way finally made. 

955
01:00:46,680 --> 01:00:51,280
Let's see more. 
Let's see more Larry boy. 

956
01:00:55,320 --> 01:01:01,320
Hallelujah, Christ away for 
everything, Yeah. 

957
01:01:03,200 --> 01:01:08,760
Yeah. 
Thank you Christ, always name of

958
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:16,840
Jesus, Praise the Lord, Oh my 
soul, and thank you God. 

959
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:30,200
In that sea there's a river. 
Thank you for we from God's holy

960
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:38,840
from thank you. 
Where the tree of life is only 

961
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:44,680
God. 
Where the hell has more been 

962
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:51,520
told? 
No more tears in that bright 

963
01:01:51,520 --> 01:01:58,680
city. 
Death will have to flee a little

964
01:01:58,920 --> 01:02:04,400
while. 
Do well more, see less. 

965
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:28,440
Love more hard? 
Thank you, God. 

966
01:02:28,440 --> 01:02:33,560
Thank you, Grace, the holy name 
of Jesus. 

967
01:02:35,120 --> 01:02:42,280
Thank you boys, to the Lord. 
Oh my soul, thank you. 

968
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:51,800
There's a time bowling that 
country and seeing that way 

969
01:02:53,600 --> 01:02:58,560
sight of old. 
Thank you God, with the troubles

970
01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:17,680
far behind him to neighbors and 
I'm going home in the morning to

971
01:03:18,280 --> 01:03:22,080
that land. 
It's so bright. 

972
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:32,200
In fact, walk the street and 
wait to go with Jesus in that 

973
01:03:32,200 --> 01:03:36,560
city. 
Build Foursquare. 

974
01:03:41,720 --> 01:03:45,080
Glory out ain't your blessing, 
Jesus. 

975
01:03:45,400 --> 01:03:52,640
Grace the blessing. 
Thank you forevermore. 

976
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:57,680
I'm going home to live with 
Jesus. 

977
01:03:59,960 --> 01:04:07,240
All that happy golden soul. 
Thank you, Lord. 

978
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,440
For those interested in 
spiritual warfare, please check 

979
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:19,520
out my book it's called Army of 
God Pocket Guide to Spiritual 

980
01:04:19,520 --> 01:04:21,960
warfare. 
It's available on Amazon in 

981
01:04:21,960 --> 01:04:25,920
paperback, hardback and I 
believe now the Kindle edition. 

982
01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:29,480
So please check it out and be 
sure to leave a five star rating

983
01:04:29,480 --> 01:04:32,280
review Amazon. 
It's easy to find. 

984
01:04:32,760 --> 01:04:33,280
God bless.