1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,040 Coming up in this week's episode. 2 00:00:02,240 --> 00:00:05,080 So yes, he absolutely can be highly stressed. 3 00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:08,240 He can be under huge pressure at work, but it still isn't 4 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:12,040 acceptable for him to take the stress out on the children or 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,200 shut you out. Welcome to the Liberation Effect 6 00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:17,280 with me, your host, Helen Villas. 7 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,400 Hello and welcome to another episode of The Liberation 8 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:27,560 Effect. Today I am answering a question 9 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:30,720 from the Facebook group and I'm just going to jump straight in 10 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:33,120 with the question and go from there I guess. 11 00:00:33,320 --> 00:00:37,640 So the question is. Hi Helen, am IA bad person for 12 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,560 losing patience with my highly stressed husband. 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:44,400 He's taking his work stress out on our kids and completely shuts 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,840 me out which triggers my hypersensitivity caused by 15 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,240 childhood trauma. I'm at breaking point. 16 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,440 It's been going on for a couple of years now. 17 00:00:52,840 --> 00:00:56,400 How do you leave with no money? How do you prepare for something 18 00:00:56,640 --> 00:00:59,760 like that with a three-year old and a seven month old? 19 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:04,160 He's the one with the money. Sorry, just needed to get that 20 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,400 off my chest. I guess before I move on and 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,920 answer. It's really important to say 22 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,560 that if you or anybody listening to this relates and is in this 23 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:16,200 situation, if you or the children are at immediate risk, 24 00:01:16,320 --> 00:01:21,280 call the emergency services. Don't wait for it to get so bad 25 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,640 that you regret not calling earlier. 26 00:01:23,720 --> 00:01:27,160 If you aren't at immediate risk, you could also contact domestic 27 00:01:27,160 --> 00:01:30,600 abuse services or perhaps women AIDS services. 28 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:35,320 So if you're in the UK, Citizens Advice might also be a really 29 00:01:35,320 --> 00:01:38,160 viable source of support in terms of practicalities and 30 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:40,320 telling you what you do need to do and what you don't need to do 31 00:01:40,320 --> 00:01:42,200 and all those things, what your options are. 32 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,640 Because I often think that when we're in these situations, all 33 00:01:45,640 --> 00:01:48,520 we see is wood. We don't see the trees, you 34 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:50,800 know. And I think it's really 35 00:01:50,800 --> 00:01:54,000 important to know that actually, for example, you wouldn't be 36 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,800 without money. There would potentially or could 37 00:01:56,800 --> 00:02:00,160 potentially be an emergency financial order in the UK would 38 00:02:00,160 --> 00:02:02,760 be filed. And I mean, I don't know if this 39 00:02:02,760 --> 00:02:06,040 person is in the UK or not. Let's move on. 40 00:02:06,040 --> 00:02:09,440 I chose this question because it's quite the onion, you know, 41 00:02:09,440 --> 00:02:12,760 as in it's got lots of layers to explore and all of them I think 42 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,000 are going to be really relevant to people who've grown up in 43 00:02:15,000 --> 00:02:19,280 these kind of toxic systems. So let's start with the leading 44 00:02:19,280 --> 00:02:22,480 question of that am IA bad person. 45 00:02:23,520 --> 00:02:26,680 Always really interesting to me that people think that having a 46 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:31,280 very normal human reaction to being treated badly makes them a 47 00:02:31,320 --> 00:02:33,600 bad person. And that's because we've been 48 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:38,800 taught that losing patience does not make you a bad person, 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,720 right? It doesn't make anyone bad. 50 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,120 It makes somebody human. Yes, we can do it wrong. 51 00:02:45,120 --> 00:02:49,760 Yes, we can do it unfairly. But usually what's happening is 52 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:52,960 that if someone's lost patience, patience, especially in a 53 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,440 Christian like this, it means a boundary has been crossed, 54 00:02:55,800 --> 00:03:01,720 possibly repeatedly for far too long, and that is going to wear 55 00:03:01,720 --> 00:03:04,120 us down. The really important thing to 56 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,200 know is that, you know, we, as I said, we all lose patience. 57 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:10,520 We snap, we shout even. But it's about how we behave 58 00:03:10,640 --> 00:03:14,320 after the fact. You know, the idea that someone 59 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:18,760 gets to use stress as carbon launch as to treat other people 60 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,520 badly, it isn't valid. And of course, I don't know that 61 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,840 that's necessarily what's happening from the question. 62 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:30,000 But what I want you and others to hear and see is that whatever 63 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:33,840 the cause of the behavior, we still have to take 64 00:03:33,840 --> 00:03:36,200 responsibility for our own behavior. 65 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:40,920 As in the husband in this scenario is still responsible or 66 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:43,320 his stress and how it impacts the family. 67 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,160 He's still responsible for his self-care. 68 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,040 That means that the stress doesn't impact the family. 69 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:55,400 It doesn't make you a bad person to lose patience with somebody 70 00:03:55,560 --> 00:04:01,000 who is repeatedly using you ultimately as an emotional 71 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:02,880 punching bag. And I'm trying to choose words 72 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:06,440 really carefully that aren't too harsh, but sometimes we need the 73 00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,920 harshness. So maybe I don't need to filter 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:11,480 that so much. When someone is stressed and 75 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,520 taking it out on us, they are using us as a punching bag, an 76 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,560 emotional one maybe, but they're still doing it and that's not 77 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,920 OK. When it comes to you losing 78 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:24,360 patience with that, remember that patience. 79 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:29,040 It's not an infinite resource. You know, chronic stress plus 80 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:31,680 emotional isolation is going to drain it. 81 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,400 And actually that's really important to recognize that his 82 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,840 stress is making you stressed. It's going to put you under 83 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,600 chronic stress because he is now not predictable. 84 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,680 He is therefore not safe. And if you've got a traumatic 85 00:04:45,680 --> 00:04:49,960 childhood history, if you are hyper vigilant, if you never 86 00:04:49,960 --> 00:04:53,240 knew which way the wind was going to blow because the person 87 00:04:53,440 --> 00:04:56,360 could react differently to any given set of circumstances or 88 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:59,320 the same set of circumstances, they react differently each 89 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,840 time. That means they are unsafe. 90 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:05,200 And if that is what's happening, of course you're going to get 91 00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,400 stressed and of course you're going to lose patience. 92 00:05:09,120 --> 00:05:11,080 I'm interested. Actually, I'm just thinking 93 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,320 about it from a are we losing patience or are we getting angry 94 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:19,880 at being treated badly? Are we being triggered? 95 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:24,080 So are we actually scared? Because that is also a serious 96 00:05:24,320 --> 00:05:27,200 possibility and actual probability. 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:33,040 So yes, anybody, you know, even the most grounded, the healthy, 98 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,720 healthy childhood. Oh no, what's the word? 99 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,800 I've got my phrasing wrong. But even in person who's grown 100 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:41,440 up in the the most healthy environment, who is super 101 00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:45,760 grounded and calm and resilient is going to get stressed in this 102 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:49,160 sort of situation and lose their patience with it. 103 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:54,160 OK, so the thing about knowing that you are losing patience 104 00:05:54,160 --> 00:05:59,560 with it, just first of all, once note, I'm going to pause, look 105 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,880 at the difference in the language between I lose 106 00:06:01,880 --> 00:06:04,000 patience. He's highly stressed. 107 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,240 There's something so much more permissive around him being 108 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,200 highly stressed than you losing patience. 109 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,880 And that isn't fair. Losing patience is I should have 110 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:17,000 better control over it. I should be able to handle this. 111 00:06:17,000 --> 00:06:23,000 I should be able to contain and absorb and manage and and cope 112 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:27,800 and sort of not react to it. Whereas highly stressed is 113 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:31,600 they've got no control. It's outside of their resources 114 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:35,280 and it's being done to them and yet actually it's being done to 115 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:38,640 you. So just notice that language of 116 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:40,520 self blame. But I'm coming on to self blame 117 00:06:40,520 --> 00:06:43,040 in a moment. So when you grow up in toxic 118 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,360 families, you know, reacting badly to behavior is seen as a 119 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:50,880 character flaw, you know, bad behavior that's exhibited 120 00:06:50,880 --> 00:06:53,960 towards us. It's not, obviously it's not, 121 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:55,680 it's not a character flaw at all. 122 00:06:55,880 --> 00:06:58,120 It's a signal. It's your body, your nervous 123 00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:00,600 system telling you that something isn't OK. 124 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,840 It's your boundaries, your values, your beliefs going, I 125 00:07:03,840 --> 00:07:06,200 don't like this. We don't want to be treated this 126 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,760 way and telling you that this is unsustainable. 127 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:13,880 The difficulty is that you may be falling into that trap of 128 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,800 your own conditioning in that it's your fault that you can't 129 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:22,160 tolerate the behavior, that your reaction is the problem, not the 130 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:25,200 behavior itself, because you were trained to do so in a 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,640 healthy environment. You grow up, something is done 132 00:07:27,640 --> 00:07:31,520 to you go, that's not fair. And the parent ideally says or 133 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,640 caregiver says, you're right, I snapped, I'm sorry. 134 00:07:35,680 --> 00:07:39,040 I've done it with my own child that I've snapped and then 135 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,520 immediately said, I'm so sorry. That wasn't your fault. 136 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:45,560 It wasn't fair. And on we go, you know, So let's 137 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,600 just do something that might help with this. 138 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:51,120 So just give you a little tool, which is 1 I use quite a lot, so 139 00:07:51,120 --> 00:07:55,160 you may well have heard of it. But take it outside of you for a 140 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,640 moment. If you witnessed my partner 141 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,360 behaving to me and my children in the same way your partner 142 00:08:00,360 --> 00:08:02,760 behaves towards you and your children when they're stressed, 143 00:08:03,120 --> 00:08:06,160 what would you think? Would you think I was a bad 144 00:08:06,160 --> 00:08:09,720 person for not wanting it and reacting badly to it? 145 00:08:09,720 --> 00:08:14,200 For losing patience and not tolerating, absorbing and, you 146 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:18,200 know, accepting it, not protecting the children you 147 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,720 know? Or are they the bad person and 148 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:22,880 I'm not actually? Let's not do black and white bad 149 00:08:22,880 --> 00:08:23,840 good. Let's. 150 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:28,040 Who is in the wrong? Or are they in the wrong for 151 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,800 doing it in the first place? Because notice that default 152 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:33,760 blame? Notice that self gaslighting, 153 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:40,400 that learned self invalidation of I am bad, beholding him 154 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:42,679 accountable, that black and white thinking. 155 00:08:42,679 --> 00:08:45,760 Again, bad or good, you're not bad. 156 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,840 You're dressed, you're being treated unfairly and you are 157 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,520 reacting to that. OK, so let's move on to the 158 00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,480 second layer of this onion. The two things can be true at 159 00:08:58,480 --> 00:09:00,960 once. He can be highly stressed, 160 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 absolutely. It can impact his behaviour, 161 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,400 absolutely. It can make him short tempered. 162 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:11,960 It can have a deficit or negative impact on his mental 163 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:14,440 health and make him depressed even. 164 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,760 Absolutely. But it can still be unacceptable 165 00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:23,720 to take that stress out on you and the children and then on 166 00:09:23,720 --> 00:09:29,160 further shut you out. So that stress, as I said, it 167 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,320 explains the behavior, but it doesn't excuse it. 168 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:36,720 And so often in these systems or so often in my cohort, in my 169 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,120 client group, in, in all the sort of audiences that I have, 170 00:09:41,440 --> 00:09:45,800 what I will see is people looking for a reason for the why 171 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,040 the behavior exists to decide whether or not they have to 172 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:51,280 tolerate it. It's not true. 173 00:09:51,400 --> 00:09:55,480 You don't have to tolerate behavior just because it comes 174 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,360 from a certain scenario. Now, I talk a lot about impact 175 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,160 and intention. And I've said in the past things 176 00:10:02,160 --> 00:10:06,400 that I actually kind of regret to a degree in that impact is 177 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,680 always more important than intention that I still kind of 178 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:12,680 stand by. But it was quite black and white 179 00:10:12,680 --> 00:10:15,840 thinking of my own. And what I would I sort of maybe 180 00:10:15,840 --> 00:10:22,480 add to it is that impact is more important, but intention is 181 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:28,680 important too, because intention might show us where we might 182 00:10:28,680 --> 00:10:32,280 show forgiveness. Now, again, I've talked about 183 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:34,240 forgiveness not being necessary to healing. 184 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,400 It's not. But if we want a relationship to 185 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:39,200 survive, forgiveness is important. 186 00:10:39,800 --> 00:10:43,080 And so if somebody I really care about and I really love and I've 187 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:46,840 always had a really good relationship with does something 188 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,360 to me that is hurtful, and I say to them, hey, you did a thing. 189 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:54,640 And it really hurt my feelings. And they come back with, Oh my 190 00:10:54,640 --> 00:10:57,160 God, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that. 191 00:10:58,040 --> 00:10:59,920 I'm going to listen to that part. 192 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,560 And they say, I'm so sorry. I didn't mean to do that. 193 00:11:03,560 --> 00:11:06,240 I was really stressed that day. All these things had happened. 194 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:11,960 Now there's not excusing it because then if they say and I 195 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:15,760 take responsibility, it really wasn't fair for me to do that to 196 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:18,360 you and I shouldn't have done it and I'll shoot do better next 197 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:23,240 time not to do that. Then we're looking at, OK, here 198 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:25,520 is half of the apology, maybe 3/4 of it. 199 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:28,680 Now I'm looking for the changed behavior next time. 200 00:11:28,680 --> 00:11:32,800 Do they treat me like that or is this a pattern which again, I'm 201 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:37,680 coming on to, but the impact and the intention are important to 202 00:11:37,680 --> 00:11:42,400 notice because, sorry, the intention behind the behavior is 203 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:46,000 important to notice if the relationship is important 204 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,080 enough. But in this scenario, if the 205 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,960 impact is being dismissed or if any scenario, the impact is 206 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:55,880 dismissed as well, it's not my fault because I'm really 207 00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,400 stressed. And therefore you just, you 208 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,120 know, I snapped at you and that's your fault for being in 209 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,280 the way. Doesn't make sense. 210 00:12:02,280 --> 00:12:04,800 If you're watching the YouTube, you'll be seeing my little face 211 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:06,680 going. What are you like? 212 00:12:06,680 --> 00:12:11,120 No, that's that doesn't compute. So yes, he absolutely can be 213 00:12:11,120 --> 00:12:13,240 highly stressed. He can be under huge pressure at 214 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,680 work, but it still isn't acceptable for him to take the 215 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,760 stress out on the children or shut you out. 216 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,960 In fact, one might argue that shutting you out is also 217 00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,360 exacerbating the stress. It's not helping in any way, 218 00:12:28,360 --> 00:12:31,000 shape or form because he's actually creating more stress at 219 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:36,800 home by shutting you out. And that's not OK for him or you 220 00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,320 in many ways. But let's focus on you. 221 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:44,720 Right, on to the next layer. The impact on children is 222 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:49,240 absolutely non negotiable. This is a no go at all. 223 00:12:49,840 --> 00:12:53,320 You know, when a parent leaks, then I say with inverted commas, 224 00:12:53,560 --> 00:12:57,360 work stress onto kids. All that does is teach them that 225 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:01,080 they must manage adult emotions. And this is where you are going 226 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:05,400 to have to be very careful based on your own childhood kind of 227 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:11,240 patterns and what's there that you might repeat by accident. 228 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,000 And that is, if you are teaching the children in any way, shape 229 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:19,080 or form that they need to keep it down because daddy's stressed 230 00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,720 or whatever it might be, you are reinforcing that belief. 231 00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:26,800 OK. Remember that children will 232 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:30,200 default into fixing things because their safety depends on 233 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:34,360 their adult being saved. And if they're two adults are 234 00:13:34,360 --> 00:13:37,360 then in conflict, they will feel like they have to manage 235 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,120 everybody's feelings in terms of the adults. 236 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:46,720 So there is something very, very, very urgent to notice 237 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:53,040 around how you react when he is behaving in that way, all the 238 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:58,120 children's sake where you might enable this demand to be managed 239 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:03,040 by accident, you know, because also you, you are again human. 240 00:14:03,080 --> 00:14:04,880 You may well want this to be over. 241 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:10,160 So just remember that you don't have to manage his feelings and 242 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:11,960 nor do they. And to tell them that 243 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,680 specifically, you know, even if he never shouts, even if he is 244 00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,520 Stony in his silence or whatever it might be, the tension, the 245 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,680 withdrawal, irritability, all that unpredictability I talked 246 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,640 about is going to keep, is going to create that atmosphere of 247 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:29,960 walking on egg shells for the children too. 248 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:35,640 OK, so your job as a parent is not to protect his comfort at 249 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:37,760 all. That is his to manage. 250 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:42,400 Your job is to protect your children's emotional safety and 251 00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:45,600 your own. He is accountable and 252 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:50,680 responsible or his and for not leaking it onto the children. 253 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,120 And if that means that he needs to take a 30 minute drive before 254 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:59,120 he gets home or go in for a walk when he gets in, that's what has 255 00:14:59,120 --> 00:15:03,960 to be done because it is not OK to bring that stress into the 256 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:05,840 home and leak it over the children. 257 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:13,560 OK, next onion there, why his shutting down hits you so hard 258 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:19,200 and perhaps a goddamn lutely, but I want to just recognize for 259 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:24,880 you that regardless of your childhood trauma, see again, 260 00:15:24,880 --> 00:15:28,240 this is the blaming he's shutting down and it triggers me 261 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,800 because of my childhood trauma and I'm hope sensitive to it. 262 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:35,160 No, this is just a normal reaction to somebody who you're 263 00:15:35,160 --> 00:15:37,920 meant to be aligned with, who is meant to love you, to be on your 264 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,440 team. Withdrawing from you, 265 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,280 stonewalling you is what we're talking about. 266 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:49,720 It is not healthy for somebody to shut their partner out. 267 00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:53,600 Regardless of your childhood trauma, you are going to have a 268 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,600 reaction to that. It doesn't matter again, if 269 00:15:56,600 --> 00:15:59,000 someone healthy in a who has grown up in a healthy 270 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:02,200 environment is shut out by their partner, they're going to feel 271 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:03,800 bad about it. It's going to make them feel 272 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,360 anxious because they are human. Their brain is saying 273 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:10,560 something's not right. We are not OK and we need this 274 00:16:10,560 --> 00:16:12,560 to change. And that's all your brain is 275 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:14,160 doing. Maybe it's amplified. 276 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:19,880 Maybe it's a harder, bigger, more painful emotion than the 277 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,400 person in a healthy environment. And maybe the person in the 278 00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:25,960 healthy environment doesn't tolerate it as long, but being 279 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:29,480 shout out, it isn't just annoying for someone with 280 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,200 childhood trauma, that's, you know, horrendous. 281 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,800 It can feel like abandonment, rejection or danger. 282 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,880 And again, that's not you being dramatic. 283 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:40,720 That is your nervous system doing its job. 284 00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:44,160 It's pattern matching. It's knowing that, oh, I 285 00:16:44,160 --> 00:16:45,840 recognize this, this is dangerous. 286 00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,640 It is dangerous. The difference between you and 287 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,560 the healthy person is they haven't had that danger before 288 00:16:51,560 --> 00:16:55,640 potentially, but when it comes along, they don't like her 289 00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:58,360 either. You are having a very normal 290 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,600 reaction. But again, we can self blame 291 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,640 because oh, I've just had a thought. 292 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,599 One of the things that can happen in toxic dynamics. 293 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:13,720 And again, I'm not diagnosing this as toxic. 294 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:18,200 I am just observing. If we have childhood trauma, 295 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,119 when everything, when anything goes wrong in a relationship, we 296 00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:26,040 can often blame ourselves. We can make it our fault and the 297 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:29,840 other person can exploit that. You know, I've been in a 298 00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:33,640 relationship where it looked like I was being validated and 299 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:37,160 cared for and supported. But actually then whenever there 300 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,240 was a conflict, it was my reaction or my objection was, 301 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,360 well, where's that coming from? It must be a wound. 302 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:46,480 It must be a trauma. It must be a childhood trauma. 303 00:17:46,480 --> 00:17:50,360 Well, because I had had a worse with inverted comma childhood 304 00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:55,760 experience than them, somehow it was me that is always at fault. 305 00:17:55,760 --> 00:18:00,320 It was me that is the problem. So therefore, that kind of 306 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:06,920 exploitation of my trauma meant that I was always in the wrong, 307 00:18:07,360 --> 00:18:09,600 you know? And that's not OK because, yeah, 308 00:18:09,760 --> 00:18:13,200 might have a bigger reaction, might be an overreaction with 309 00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,600 heavily inverted commas, but it's an appropriate one because 310 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:21,400 something I don't want done to me or something that is a 311 00:18:21,400 --> 00:18:25,440 boundary that is being crossed, I'm having a reaction to is 312 00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,200 being blamed on my trauma rather than the fact that it's just not 313 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,720 OK, right? Because, yeah, So what if 314 00:18:32,720 --> 00:18:35,240 there's a history of it? What's happening here and now? 315 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:37,920 Still not OK? You being shut out doesn't 316 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,560 matter whether you've got a history or not, it's not OK. 317 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:46,080 So you know that that idea that you're overreacting somehow or 318 00:18:46,080 --> 00:18:50,720 you're hypersensitive to it mean is, and that's a negative thing. 319 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:52,440 No, it's not. It's your brain saying that this 320 00:18:52,440 --> 00:18:57,200 is dangerous. And OK, you might react in a way 321 00:18:57,200 --> 00:19:02,960 that is maybe more suitable in the childhood state of of lack 322 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:07,480 of agency and power, but it's still appropriate. 323 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:09,680 It's still understandable. You do. 324 00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,160 You still deserve a relationship that doesn't repeatedly activate 325 00:19:14,360 --> 00:19:18,080 old wounds. Just because you have the trauma 326 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,440 doesn't mean they're allowed to do it and say it's your fault 327 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:23,680 for reacting to it. Get it. 328 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:29,840 OK, the next layer. And this is probably what pulled 329 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:33,760 me into answering this question because when I read the 330 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:39,400 question, I really was taken aback by this statement. 331 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,520 And I really felt like, wait, what? 332 00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:46,120 You know, this moment of real shock of did I read that 333 00:19:46,120 --> 00:19:49,240 correctly? I was not expecting that word 334 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,040 you said. Let me just find the question 335 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:56,200 again. I'm at breaking point. 336 00:19:56,280 --> 00:19:58,000 It's been going on for a couple of. 337 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,440 And I expected to read the word months. 338 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:05,120 And you said years, years of this. 339 00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,600 That is not OK. But that is not OK. 340 00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,080 Two years. That is not a blip. 341 00:20:13,360 --> 00:20:17,960 That is not a period of stress. That is not a bad patch. 342 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:25,440 It's a pattern, right? Patterns don't shift on good 343 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,360 intentions. They shift on clear limits, 344 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:31,960 meaningful consequences, and sustained change. 345 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:37,520 And the thing about it is we again, I come back to this idea 346 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,480 of we learn in childhood that our reaction is the problem, not 347 00:20:40,480 --> 00:20:43,680 the behaviour itself. But we also learn to tolerate 348 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:46,560 stuff. We we learn to absorb and take 349 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:50,520 in and and weather and bear. We become like Atlas with the 350 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,840 world, but it's their behaviour as the world on our shoulders 351 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,640 and that the more we carry, the better we are as a human being 352 00:20:58,640 --> 00:21:01,400 somehow. Or that good child. 353 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:08,320 Maybe so two years. No, that is not a blip. 354 00:21:09,080 --> 00:21:13,280 And I wonder what happened two years ago, what changed, what 355 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:17,080 agency happened, what autonomy, what push back, what challenge 356 00:21:17,560 --> 00:21:21,800 happened either from you, from the children, from work? 357 00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:29,240 Where was there a shift in his dominance, power or control? 358 00:21:29,240 --> 00:21:32,520 And I don't mean that as in the toxic, toxic way necessarily, 359 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:35,840 but what happened two years ago, because there will have been a 360 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,520 trigger to this. There was interesting, you know, 361 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,360 this idea of consequences. People talk about punishment 362 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:44,840 like you shouldn't punish things. 363 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,160 And we're not talking about punishment. 364 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,960 People only behave towards us the way we allow them to. 365 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:56,200 And again, I get so much pushback from this idea. 366 00:21:57,000 --> 00:21:59,200 It's seen as victim blaming and I'm not doing that. 367 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:02,480 We don't deserve to be abused. We don't deserve any of this 368 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,400 treatment at all. Certainly not as children, but 369 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:11,160 as we get into adulthood, if we keep silent, the behavior keeps 370 00:22:11,160 --> 00:22:13,520 going. You know, I think about the idea 371 00:22:13,520 --> 00:22:15,760 of rising above it in this scenario. 372 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:18,960 If we rise above it, if we don't, you know, if we keep the 373 00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,960 peace, bloody hate that phrase. If we keep the peace, somehow 374 00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:27,160 we're seen as better than and we're morally, I hate the word 375 00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,920 superior in this, but we are being morally superior because 376 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,000 we're not complaining or it makes us a good person because 377 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:37,680 we're not speaking up or making a fuss with, again, inverted 378 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:39,760 commas. No, we're not. 379 00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:43,000 All we're doing is saying that behavior can continue when we 380 00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:46,000 don't push back, when we don't say I'm not tolerating that, 381 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,320 don't treat me this way, when we don't call it out and hold 382 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,720 someone accountable. They just get carte blanche to 383 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:58,720 carry on. There has to be a consequence to 384 00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:01,840 the behavior. And I don't mean punishment or 385 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,040 ultimatum or shaming or abuse back. 386 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,080 I mean, it's not OK to treat me like this. 387 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:10,600 If this is going to continue, I'm not staying in this 388 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,080 relationship. I won't be in this relationship. 389 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:17,720 It's that simple. There are deal Breakers. 390 00:23:17,720 --> 00:23:20,880 What are your deal Breakers? Because stonewalling is one of 391 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,360 mine. In fact, I did that earlier this 392 00:23:23,360 --> 00:23:24,760 year. I got stonewalled and I 393 00:23:24,760 --> 00:23:27,480 immediately left the situation. Not this year because we're only 394 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,320 on January the whatever it is, but I did it last year. 395 00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:35,120 The idea of being in a relationship where someone is 396 00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,680 withholding or withdrawing affection or changing 397 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,760 communication because they want to assert some kind of control 398 00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,840 or power. Not happening, right. 399 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:49,480 So you we have to be brave enough to face the grief. 400 00:23:49,480 --> 00:23:51,400 And that is what this all comes down to. 401 00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:53,960 I've probably jumped the gun a little bit in what I was going 402 00:23:53,960 --> 00:24:00,920 to say and do, but the the idea of I'm going to just keep the 403 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:04,800 peace, not OK. Now you might say to me, if you 404 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,920 were with me right now, I don't want to upset the children, OK, 405 00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:10,720 that's valid. I totally get that. 406 00:24:10,920 --> 00:24:14,440 But them not seeing you stand up and say, hey, that's not OK, 407 00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,280 don't do that is you almost enabling it. 408 00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:21,440 You know, silence is compliance idea. 409 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:25,240 So I think if you think about that first of all, and then if 410 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:28,560 you were to say to me, but I'm too scared because they get 411 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:32,040 really angry, OK, then this relationship is really toxic. 412 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,480 If you are not able to hold someone accountable for their 413 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:39,280 behaviour that negatively not only impacts you but also 414 00:24:39,280 --> 00:24:45,360 children, their children, then that is a toxic relationship. 415 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,640 Because if you are unable to have adult conversations without 416 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,320 managing their feelings, without saying to somebody, you did this 417 00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,440 thing, it hurt me, you're doing a thing, it's hurting me and 418 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,280 it's hurting the children. You're behaving in a way that's 419 00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:03,040 not OK. Do you need to go and for a 420 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:04,960 walk? And in fact, that is something 421 00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:07,720 that you could say in this situation, if there is a 422 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:12,400 behavior that's unacceptable that, you know, might cause an 423 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,960 escalation that you don't want the children to witness or 424 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,440 safety, you could say to the your partner, do you need to go 425 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,160 and take a walk? Because this is not OK right 426 00:25:24,160 --> 00:25:26,880 now. It might feel less combative. 427 00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,280 It might be something that you've agreed prior when they 428 00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,280 are regulated and you are regulated. 429 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:35,920 Or it's just that you say, OK, Daddy is not. 430 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:37,720 Daddy's come home stressed from work. 431 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,680 Let's us go for a walk. We'll leave the house, right? 432 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,040 Ultimately it's saying I won't be around to tolerate this 433 00:25:45,040 --> 00:25:47,320 behavior and I won't allow the children to tolerate this 434 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,000 behavior either. And they need to see you do that 435 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,360 more than he did. He does really in this 436 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:56,320 situation. So here are some lines that you 437 00:25:56,320 --> 00:26:00,640 might be able to use that it depends again on the scenario. 438 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:04,640 So you could say something like understand workers intense and 439 00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:08,120 I'm not available for you taking it out on the kids, right? 440 00:26:08,760 --> 00:26:11,800 Or you could say when you shut me out, I feel alone in this 441 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,760 marriage and I need engagement, not disappearance. 442 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,440 People might say, well, that's guilt tripping. 443 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,520 No, it's not. It's just honest communication. 444 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,680 It's saying this is my need. It's my it's stating the need. 445 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:27,400 I am not willing to be alone in this marriage, right? 446 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:30,160 I need engagement. If you can't provide that when 447 00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,120 you're stressed, that's OK, But you need to communicate to me 448 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,440 that you are stressed, that you need time alone the and then 449 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:41,000 take that time because it's no good for anybody in that 450 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:43,360 scenario. The other thing you might want 451 00:26:43,360 --> 00:26:47,160 to say, you could say something like, I don't know, I'm willing 452 00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,800 to work on this with you, but I won't keep living like this. 453 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:54,880 Again, not guilt tripping. It's stating that I'm here to 454 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,160 support, I'm here to help. I'm not doing it for you, I'm 455 00:26:58,160 --> 00:27:01,800 not managing it for you and I will not tolerate this 456 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,840 behaviour, right? It's not guilt tripping, it's 457 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:08,240 not motivational empathy, it's not you. 458 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:10,560 Well, it's actually called compassionate empathy, but there 459 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:11,880 we go. We'll go with motivational 460 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:13,760 because I know everybody really understands that now. 461 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:18,680 So the other thing then as well as you could say if it happens 462 00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:22,200 again, and as I said, go for a walk, the thing of if it happens 463 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:26,120 again, I'll remove the children and myself from the situation 464 00:27:26,120 --> 00:27:30,080 until things are calm and you're able to regulate because that is 465 00:27:30,080 --> 00:27:36,760 ultimately the really big thing that we need in this scenario. 466 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,200 He is not that he's never allowed to be stressed. 467 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:40,480 And I want to make that very clear. 468 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,160 He is of course allowed to be stressed, but he's not allowed 469 00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:47,240 to take the stress out on you. OK, all the children. 470 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:53,320 All right, So let's go to what change might actually look like 471 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,560 in this situation. So not just promises, not future 472 00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:01,000 faking. So future faking is such a 473 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:05,800 bloody pain in the butt in this one because I can imagine, you 474 00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:08,120 know, when things get better, when things get easier. 475 00:28:08,320 --> 00:28:10,520 I'm sorry, I'm so stressed. It's just being so awful. 476 00:28:10,520 --> 00:28:14,520 And now I'm, and I know, you know, there could be all this 477 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,480 basically self victimization. I feel so bad about how I'm 478 00:28:18,480 --> 00:28:20,600 treating the children. And it's going to get better, I 479 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:22,680 promise you. But if it doesn't get better, 480 00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,880 it's not, it's not going to get better if there's no active 481 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:29,720 steps towards changing the behavior. 482 00:28:29,960 --> 00:28:33,360 And OK, change might take a little bit of time, and it might 483 00:28:33,360 --> 00:28:37,280 be he needs this language as well to understand how to do it 484 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,080 himself. It might be he's never been 485 00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,440 taught how to do this, how to take responsibility. 486 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,160 And it might be he needs to go to therapy and find his own way 487 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,600 through things. So anyway, things that you could 488 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:53,200 look for that, you know, would really signify changes be things 489 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,480 like he says he actually names the behavior for a start, you 490 00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:57,760 know, I'm spending stress onto the family. 491 00:28:57,760 --> 00:29:02,200 It's not OK as long as, you know, it's not going to be the 492 00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:06,760 thing that changes, but it's the acknowledgement of it, not, you 493 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,520 know, not making the excuses for it. 494 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,600 So then it would be that thing of taking ownership and getting 495 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,400 support. So whether it's going to the GP, 496 00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,240 whether it's going to therapy, as I mentioned, stress 497 00:29:17,240 --> 00:29:20,760 management, talking to his boss about workload, whatever is 498 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,720 relevant for him or anybody in this scenario who would feel 499 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:28,040 very gendered at this moment. But anyone in this scenario, 500 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:32,120 whatever's relevant that they are making active steps to to 501 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:34,680 minimize the amount of stress they're experiencing that is 502 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:37,840 then leaking onto the family. Because again, not only are you 503 00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:40,240 human, but he is too. He's going to get stressed. 504 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,320 Things are going to come up. And we do snap when our patience 505 00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:44,920 is, or our stress is high rather. 506 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,200 And our, you know, our patience is thin. 507 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,560 And again, as I said that he repairs after blow UPS, you 508 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,800 know, he's apologizing to the children, he's changing 509 00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,080 behavior. He doesn't blame you for your 510 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:58,320 reaction. Big, big one, right? 511 00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:04,400 Making it very clear to him that your reaction to his behaviour 512 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,320 towards you or the children is not a problem. 513 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:12,400 Obviously, there's going to be a Gray area of that. 514 00:30:12,400 --> 00:30:16,600 So again, let's not go black and white that we can't become 515 00:30:17,520 --> 00:30:21,280 reactively abusive in that, but we can hold them accountable and 516 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,120 say it's not OK that you're behaving like that. 517 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,240 And if there's a reaction to that behaviour, that statement, 518 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,320 that is, that is the bit where he you're not to be blamed, you 519 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,400 know, And then if we really are seeing a change in pattern, 520 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:40,600 there's going to be a kind of change or a consistency in the 521 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,520 change over months, you know, not just for a week after a bad 522 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:47,040 fight. Because this is the other thing 523 00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:50,720 with future baking, I know I've been really stressed. 524 00:30:50,720 --> 00:30:52,680 It's really awful. I've just been under so much 525 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,120 pressure. I promise you I'm going to try 526 00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,080 really hard. I'm not going to take it out on 527 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,760 you anymore. And for a week, maybe 2, maybe 528 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:00,840 even a month, it's going to be amazing. 529 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,480 And you'd be like, oh thank God, thank God they're back. 530 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:07,960 And they're the person I know they are and know them to be and 531 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,760 all of those things. And it's what I wanted it all to 532 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,840 be. And then slowly it starts 533 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,440 chipping away and we're back right where we started. 534 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:21,240 And if you start looking at it as a cycle, you will start 535 00:31:21,240 --> 00:31:25,520 seeing the pattern of the cycle. There's a big blow up, the 536 00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:28,120 behaviour changes. Things are really lovely for a 537 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:32,560 week, 2 weeks, a month, Things start, You know, we have one 538 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:35,480 more blow up, one blow up and oh, it's all right, it's OK. 539 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,720 It's just things are really stressful again and I'll be on 540 00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:39,680 it. I'll be OK. 541 00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,040 OK. I, you know, there's just a 542 00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:44,600 blip, but then there's another one. 543 00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:50,080 And then all of a sudden it's going from none a week to one a 544 00:31:50,080 --> 00:31:52,880 week, then to two a week to 3:00 to 4:00 to 5:00. 545 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:54,960 And all of a sudden we're back to every night. 546 00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:58,560 They're being stomping and grumping and stonewalling and 547 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,000 shouting and distracted irritation at the children, 548 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:05,680 snapping at the children, and rejection of the children and 549 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:12,880 all of those things. If you're scared of rejection, 550 00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,680 of saying no, have no idea how to trust people, you're not 551 00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:18,360 alone. And you don't have to heal alone 552 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,400 either. That's what the Hub is for. 553 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,840 It's a membership community designed for survivors just like 554 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:25,720 you. Every month we dive into 555 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,800 powerful courses. We hold live calls and connect 556 00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:33,080 in a supportive, understanding space so you can break free from 557 00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:36,600 the past and build healthy, fulfilling relationships. 558 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:41,120 Maybe it's time to stop surviving and instead start 559 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,920 thriving. Visit Join the hub dot AC today 560 00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,840 using the code POD 20 to get £20 off your first month's 561 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:51,920 membership. I can't wait to see you there. 562 00:32:52,240 --> 00:32:53,160 Take care. Bye. 563 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,840 So I'm going to come on to the final very important part of 564 00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,760 your question, the bit about leaving. 565 00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:07,400 How do you do that with a 7 month old and a three-year old? 566 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,280 OK, that is going to be difficult. 567 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:11,960 I'm not going to lie, it is going to be hard. 568 00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,080 But what we might be talking about here in this scenario, 569 00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:18,800 because as you said, he earns the money, you said it's his 570 00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,200 money and I'm coming back. I know I've already mentioned 571 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,640 it, but coming back to the idea that it's his, which might 572 00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:31,480 indicate there could be some financial abuse in this that 573 00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,240 language of he has ownership of the money. 574 00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:37,800 No, he earns the money. It's family money, it's joint. 575 00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:41,520 If you gave up work to look after children or if the 576 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:44,600 agreement was that you didn't work so that you could be there 577 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:49,320 for the children, then that is what's the agreement is. 578 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:54,320 It's joint income. OK, I really would like you to 579 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:58,000 really try and shift your or challenge that thinking of it 580 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,400 being his in inverted commas, using them a lot today. 581 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,080 Money because it's not it's family money. 582 00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:08,679 OK, but maybe he's positioned it as his money and you feel like 583 00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,120 obliged to follow that because he's the one that goes out to 584 00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,199 work. Well, he gets to have a family 585 00:34:13,199 --> 00:34:16,040 because you stay at home and look after the children, right? 586 00:34:16,239 --> 00:34:19,320 He doesn't have to pay for childcare because you're at home 587 00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:22,920 looking after the children or less childcare that he pays for 588 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:24,760 because you're home looking after the children. 589 00:34:25,040 --> 00:34:29,040 You know, if you're thinking about leaving though, it's going 590 00:34:29,040 --> 00:34:32,840 to look at, it's going to look like starting with preparation, 591 00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,960 not panic. So not doing something knee 592 00:34:35,960 --> 00:34:38,840 jerks. So take your time with it. 593 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:40,920 You don't have to decide everything today. 594 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,560 You can kind of move into what I would call quiet preparation 595 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:47,199 mode. Oh, this is difficult because 596 00:34:47,199 --> 00:34:50,600 people see this as potential betrayal, but it's not it's it's 597 00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:54,239 self protection, right? It's stabilizing options. 598 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:58,840 You're looking at protecting not just yourself, but the children 599 00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:01,720 too. And it's really important that 600 00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:07,160 if you are to leave and become sole and or main carer for the 601 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:12,360 kids that you are able to be safe and not stressed for them 602 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:15,360 to that you, you know, in the fallout, because there will be 603 00:35:15,360 --> 00:35:17,040 fallout. There always is. 604 00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:22,560 No matter how amicable these scenarios are, they will always 605 00:35:22,560 --> 00:35:27,400 carry with them some fallout. And that on its own just could 606 00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:32,320 be grief, your own emotion, your own loss, the relationship and 607 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:35,440 then the situation you find yourself in now as a result. 608 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,640 But if we're breaking up with someone toxic, it's even worse 609 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:43,800 because then we are navigating break up from a toxic person who 610 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,280 will be furious that they have been. 611 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:50,040 And I'm going to say this again with inverted commas. 612 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,680 Outsmarted, which is what they'll see it as if if they are 613 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:59,480 high in narcissistic traits. So this isn't betrayal. 614 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:06,400 This is self protection. And preparation is about making 615 00:36:06,400 --> 00:36:09,280 sure that you are safe, that they are safe. 616 00:36:09,720 --> 00:36:12,880 OK. So please hear it as that 617 00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:16,240 anybody in this situation. It's about knowing the lay of 618 00:36:16,240 --> 00:36:20,160 the land so you know what to do when you have little or no 619 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:21,640 money. So these are really general 620 00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:25,800 steps, but they're really important ones and ones that I 621 00:36:25,800 --> 00:36:30,640 know the lovely Tracy Maloney, the Legal Queen recommended to. 622 00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:33,960 And hopefully I'm going to have her on the podcast really soon. 623 00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:36,400 So let's start with information gathering. 624 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:40,680 Gathering over the next few weeks is knowing what money 625 00:36:40,680 --> 00:36:44,600 exists, you know where it goes, what the monthly outgoings are, 626 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:47,000 what the income is. Do you know exactly? 627 00:36:47,240 --> 00:36:50,240 Do you know where money is being spent? 628 00:36:50,240 --> 00:36:52,040 Do you know what bills there are? 629 00:36:52,040 --> 00:36:55,120 Do you know whether there's savings, whether there's hidden 630 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,840 money? Do you know what the mortgage 631 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:58,640 is? Are you on the mortgage? 632 00:36:58,920 --> 00:37:04,960 Because there's another thing is if you are not married and you 633 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:08,960 live in a home and are not on a mortgage, you are going to 634 00:37:08,960 --> 00:37:13,520 struggle to have a claim in that house, in that property. 635 00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:20,200 OK, So get the information, the financial information absolutely 636 00:37:20,640 --> 00:37:22,840 locked down. So you know exactly what there 637 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:24,760 is and access to all those accounts. 638 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,920 You know, if, if you are not given access to accounts that 639 00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:33,720 again, I believe, I'm not 100% sure, so do Fact Check me, but I 640 00:37:33,720 --> 00:37:38,160 believe that it would be seen as financial abuse because that 641 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,720 makes you entirely financially dependent on somebody you know. 642 00:37:41,840 --> 00:37:45,240 And that's not, that doesn't give you freedom and autonomy. 643 00:37:45,240 --> 00:37:49,000 So the next thing to do is create a documents pack. 644 00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:53,920 So IDs, passports, best certificates, NHS numbers, bank 645 00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:59,400 details, the mortgage like tenancy or information, maybe if 646 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:02,320 you get benefits, benefits information, marriage 647 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:07,240 certificate and any certificates and any child documents, related 648 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:09,520 documents. So for me, for example, we've 649 00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:13,600 got loads of letters from the hospitals over, you know, 650 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,480 various appointments and assessments and diagnosis and 651 00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:18,840 what have you. And so having copies of all of 652 00:38:18,840 --> 00:38:22,080 those things and just knowing what they are, where they are 653 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,360 and having hold of them. So again, it's not that you're 654 00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:29,880 taking or stealing them or denying access to them, you're 655 00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,480 just knowing what there is, where it is, and you are 656 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:36,480 compiling them all into one place so that should you need 657 00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,240 them in a hurry, you've got them. 658 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,720 First of all, maybe duplicating photographs of, sorry, not 659 00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:44,520 photographs. Well, you have photographs, 660 00:38:44,720 --> 00:38:49,760 photocopies, scans of letters and documents and stored in a 661 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,440 digital iCloud somewhere that you can access from anywhere. 662 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:55,520 We should all be doing this anyway, just in case of fire. 663 00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:57,280 Just FYI. We should all do this 664 00:38:57,680 --> 00:39:01,440 regardless, but have all these documents stored somewhere 665 00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:05,320 safely that you can access them if you need to urgently. 666 00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:08,240 The next thing might be opening an account, a bank account in 667 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,160 your own name. So this obviously only if it's 668 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,960 safe to do so. Only if you can do it without it 669 00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,840 becoming a threat to your safety. 670 00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:21,880 You know, tricky one. I, I am erring on the side of 671 00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:27,200 caution in terms of the, the potential for coercion or 672 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,120 control or punishment in this situation, abuse. 673 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,040 Really the question gives me no reason to believe particularly 674 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:38,440 why that this could be a situation that needs this level 675 00:39:38,440 --> 00:39:41,000 of caution. But if you're listening and your 676 00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,920 situation does need this level of caution, please take it. 677 00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,080 So, OK, so we're going to, when we're talking about taking out a 678 00:39:47,080 --> 00:39:50,440 bank account, small, just tiny, tiny little amounts into that 679 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,640 account. You know, I don't know about 680 00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:54,280 anyone else. I've got an account that does 681 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:55,680 something called save the change. 682 00:39:55,680 --> 00:39:58,600 So anytime I buy anything, if there's, you know, a couple of 683 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:00,960 quid change, it will just throw it into that account 684 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,920 automatically. And it's, it saved me £300 685 00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,560 really quickly. What I say really quickly, like 686 00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:11,040 over a year, but it still saved £300. 687 00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:15,560 I didn't notice it going so. Those sorts of things. 688 00:40:15,560 --> 00:40:19,640 Or I've seen Tik Toks or of people doing things like saying 689 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:22,600 that they're going to hire a cleaner, doing the work 690 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:27,120 themselves and then pocketing the cash, which again, I know is 691 00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:30,480 going to feel duplicitous and I know it's going to feel like 692 00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,600 you're being manipulative. First of all, if you're in a 693 00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,440 situation where that is your only option to get money, that 694 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:40,600 is not duplicitous or manipulative. 695 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:45,280 It's survival and second of all, we only would do it in those 696 00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:48,120 circumstances. So no way in which it would be 697 00:40:48,280 --> 00:40:49,800 duplicitous at all. OK. 698 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,680 And then build a support map. Like look at who you could stay 699 00:40:53,680 --> 00:40:56,440 with, who could help with childcare, who could be an 700 00:40:56,440 --> 00:41:00,000 emergency contact for you. Look at what's around you, the 701 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:02,320 resources. Do you use childcare? 702 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:06,400 Could you inform the people there about the situation if you 703 00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:10,000 needed to look at what friends you've got that are safe and 704 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:11,760 trusted. And again, if you're telling 705 00:41:11,760 --> 00:41:15,920 anybody any of this, make sure 100% that you can trust them 706 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:18,160 that they are not going to disclose this. 707 00:41:18,360 --> 00:41:23,720 And that number should be so flipping small that it's no more 708 00:41:23,720 --> 00:41:27,080 than two. I would argue if if even 2. 709 00:41:27,760 --> 00:41:32,360 So really notice who is safe for you to share anything like this 710 00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:35,040 with where you could leave potentially stuff. 711 00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:39,320 I worked with somebody once where over about a year we were 712 00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:43,440 arranging, you know, just items leaving the house that would 713 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,720 just so they could be safe to be able to get out safely until 714 00:41:47,720 --> 00:41:51,760 they were in a position to literally leave and no, not go 715 00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,200 back and then lie about where they had gone. 716 00:41:54,200 --> 00:41:56,880 So they weren't followed, you know, because it was that 717 00:41:56,880 --> 00:42:00,600 dangerous. And that that just, if we have 718 00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,160 to do that, that shows you what the relationship actually is. 719 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:06,880 And if you're in a situation where you like, well, I don't 720 00:42:06,880 --> 00:42:09,480 know if I would need to do that or, or I don't know if it's 721 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,080 actually that bad. So I don't know if I need to do 722 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:15,480 that. That tells you enough to know 723 00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,720 that you need to do it. Because if you don't know, then 724 00:42:17,720 --> 00:42:19,600 the possibility is there. OK. 725 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:22,760 So you can also go and get things like benefits entitlement 726 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,840 advice because you know, it's very, very often that people 727 00:42:25,840 --> 00:42:30,480 will assume that they're not liable or sorry valid or qualify 728 00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:33,960 for anything at all. And I think only once in 729 00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:38,240 multiple times have that has that been the situation. 730 00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:44,160 So really go and check what you're able to access and it 731 00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,320 might be that you're not able to access it immediately, but 732 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:49,560 there's things that even like being signed up or referred to 733 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:51,440 the food bank or the community fridge. 734 00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:53,720 If you've got one of those, if you haven't, they're amazing. 735 00:42:53,720 --> 00:42:55,720 Somebody start one in your area because it's brilliant. 736 00:42:56,000 --> 00:43:00,840 So yeah, so look around at what is available to you because 737 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,880 especially if you are a single parent with children and 738 00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:07,280 especially really young children, you will be put to the 739 00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,560 very top of a list in terms of housing. 740 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:12,320 So yeah, just go and have a look and find out. 741 00:43:12,320 --> 00:43:16,000 Don't assume, never make assumptions, always check it 742 00:43:16,000 --> 00:43:17,920 out. Don't believe everything you 743 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,480 think because again, abuse situations, toxic dynamics, 744 00:43:21,480 --> 00:43:23,280 financial abuse, you'll be nothing. 745 00:43:23,280 --> 00:43:25,880 You wouldn't cope without me. I won't give you a penny. 746 00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:28,400 You'll be homeless. You'll be homeless and I'll get 747 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:30,560 keep the children. Those sorts of things get thrown 748 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:32,360 about and we believe them. It's not true. 749 00:43:32,560 --> 00:43:34,240 It's not necessarily true at all. 750 00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:38,480 And quite often when it comes to childcare arrangements, as in 751 00:43:38,720 --> 00:43:42,960 access and custody, what usually will happen is that the status 752 00:43:42,960 --> 00:43:46,240 quo is followed. And this is very good reason not 753 00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:47,720 to. So yeah. 754 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,800 So check what support actually exists locally for you, what 755 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,600 your housing options are, childcare support, whether 756 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,120 there's family hubs or council services. 757 00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,840 Just find out and then get legal information early. 758 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,440 You know, a lot of lawyers will do a short 30 minute session and 759 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:09,560 that you can, if you go in with a lot of questions prepped, if 760 00:44:09,560 --> 00:44:11,640 you go in with all these questions prepped, like what's 761 00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:13,000 this, what's that? How do I get this? 762 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,120 How do I get that? Knowing what you want to know, 763 00:44:15,360 --> 00:44:18,600 you can get an awful lot of advice in a very short period of 764 00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:23,280 time as long as you are really clear going in to that session. 765 00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:27,760 So a short advice session with a lawyer could really clarify 766 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,240 rights around children, housing and finances, particularly that 767 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:34,680 thing around like the emergency financial order and having a 768 00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,280 safety plan. Also, let's look at that part 769 00:44:37,280 --> 00:44:39,040 safety plan. Even if you're not called 770 00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,760 running at that, you know where you'd go, what your take, how 771 00:44:41,760 --> 00:44:43,520 you'd leave quickly if you needed to. 772 00:44:43,520 --> 00:44:50,360 Let me share something personal now, not too much of it, but I, 773 00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:53,920 I think you'll know if you've listened before that I was in a 774 00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:57,160 really difficult relationship that required police involvement 775 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:59,160 and restraining orders and all sorts of things. 776 00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:05,360 And after it ended, and in fact before, I always had a bag 777 00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:08,880 packed with everything I would need for the baby and myself, 778 00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,240 but largely for the baby. Because when, when the babies 779 00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:16,200 are small, you need nappies and wipes and formula and food and 780 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:18,680 loads of clothes. Oh my God, all the clothes. 781 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:23,280 So I wanted to make sure I had all that stuff available in a 782 00:45:23,320 --> 00:45:26,000 bag so I could literally walk out the house immediately if I 783 00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:28,240 needed to. And I kept it there. 784 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,960 I think I kept it for two years and I would just update it every 785 00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:35,800 time, you know, we change clothes sizes or nappy sizes 786 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:40,520 because there was still a threat of a threat to my safety. 787 00:45:40,520 --> 00:45:44,200 I'm trying not to give too much away, but also share enough to 788 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,480 know I know what this is like. And that go back made me feel 789 00:45:47,480 --> 00:45:52,640 safe because I knew then that I had the power to leave and all 790 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:55,560 the things that were safe. So in the go bag, I also had 791 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,280 passports, best certificates, all the different things that I 792 00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,640 needed in order to kind of be able to move through life or get 793 00:46:03,640 --> 00:46:06,320 bank accounts or houses, whatever it needs I needed, 794 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:07,840 right? So basically ID and all that 795 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,800 stuff. So make sure you have that 796 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:14,720 available to you. And then, yeah, let's go and 797 00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:16,800 look at this money side of things. 798 00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:23,800 You know, the financial control. There's this big misconception 799 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:26,680 around abuse that it has to be physical. 800 00:46:26,960 --> 00:46:30,560 You will have heard me use the phrase repeatedly. 801 00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:35,840 Emotional abuse is the cornerstone of all abuse. 802 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:39,040 No other abuse can exist without it, right? 803 00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:44,720 There is no abuse in this world that can exist without emotional 804 00:46:44,720 --> 00:46:48,200 abuse. Sustained abuse, whether it's 805 00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:52,320 sexual abuse, whether it's physical, emotional, what sorry, 806 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:59,560 financial, all of it has to have emotional abuse as a foundation 807 00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:02,760 to be built upon. So you don't need bruises for 808 00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,880 this to be serious. You don't need to be penniless 809 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:10,720 for you to be being financially controlled. 810 00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:14,680 It could be that you have a credit card and you, you know, 811 00:47:14,680 --> 00:47:16,360 that gets paid off each month for you. 812 00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:19,000 It could be that you're given an allowance, as it were, 813 00:47:19,200 --> 00:47:23,560 housekeeping money or something. And so therefore, you don't see 814 00:47:23,560 --> 00:47:25,600 that as being financially abusive. 815 00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,120 But if you can't leave because you can't access money, that is 816 00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:32,920 a giant red flag. Now, it's reasonable to be 817 00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:34,840 concerned about how would I earn money? 818 00:47:35,080 --> 00:47:38,720 Absolutely understand that, but there are Ways and Means of 819 00:47:38,720 --> 00:47:40,600 doing so even with small children. 820 00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:43,640 That's how I started a cupcake company because I needed to be 821 00:47:43,640 --> 00:47:45,160 at home. And I don't know if everyone 822 00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,880 knew that, but I used to run a cupcake company many, many moons 823 00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:49,240 ago. And the reason I did it was 824 00:47:49,240 --> 00:47:52,160 because I wanted to be at home and I didn't want to pay massive 825 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:55,320 childcare bills and couldn't afford to pay childcare bills. 826 00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:58,480 So I did cupcakes because I knew how to make a cupcake and got 827 00:47:58,480 --> 00:48:01,040 pretty good at it. And, you know, it was, it was 828 00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:05,160 pretty good for a while. And so there are ways of making 829 00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:09,680 money at home that do not impact your ability to childcare. 830 00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,960 And yeah, you, there are lots of things that you can do from 831 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:14,360 home. If you've got a phone, if you've 832 00:48:14,360 --> 00:48:17,960 got a laptop, ideally. So, yeah, the fact that you 833 00:48:17,960 --> 00:48:20,360 can't leave because of money, that is a giant red flag. 834 00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,680 The fact that you call it his money or he earns the money, or 835 00:48:23,680 --> 00:48:26,720 I'm going to just check what language it was. 836 00:48:26,720 --> 00:48:28,880 Again, he's the one with the money. 837 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:33,560 He's the one with the family who's dependent on him for that 838 00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:38,360 money. So, yeah, so let's look at where 839 00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:41,120 that risk like might actually lie, because as I said, I've 840 00:48:41,120 --> 00:48:44,120 made a lot of assumption and maybe filled in some blanks. 841 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,920 So if there's any intimidation or fear, you know, if there is 842 00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:53,240 behavior that looks like it could escalate to physical 843 00:48:53,480 --> 00:48:57,240 interaction, that is a higher risk, treated as high risk. 844 00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:02,200 If you ever feel that unsafe or fear his reaction to you kind of 845 00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:07,200 planning, prioritize specialist support and then discreet 846 00:49:07,200 --> 00:49:10,600 planning, making that planning very discreet, you know, so as I 847 00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:14,680 said, in the UK, organizations like Citizens Advice, Women's 848 00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:19,960 Aid and maybe even Refuge can help you think through options 849 00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:22,640 safely, including finances and housing. 850 00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:24,400 And this is again really important. 851 00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,400 There are resources you don't have to be in the sort of you 852 00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:30,640 don't have to have left to use those services. 853 00:49:30,840 --> 00:49:35,000 You can go and get advice from them before or they do so all 854 00:49:35,000 --> 00:49:38,120 right, what can you do for yourself immediately this week, 855 00:49:38,120 --> 00:49:40,160 for example? So let's look at some really 856 00:49:40,160 --> 00:49:45,800 small stabilizing steps. Decide maybe 1 boundary that 857 00:49:45,800 --> 00:49:48,200 you'll enforce immediately around the children. 858 00:49:48,520 --> 00:49:52,920 So that might be not to take it out on them, not to allow him, 859 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:57,680 you know, not ask them to keep the peace or removing them going 860 00:49:57,680 --> 00:50:00,840 on the walk or to the park, whatever it might be, if he's in 861 00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:06,040 that mood that you know, that he's going to be taking it out 862 00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:07,520 on them. And I really would love to 863 00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:09,960 understand what you mean by taking it out actually. 864 00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:15,400 So maybe also another thing you could do is tell one trusted 865 00:50:15,400 --> 00:50:19,440 person what's happening. So there's the Facebook group 866 00:50:19,440 --> 00:50:21,720 you can use. I don't know how trusted that 867 00:50:21,720 --> 00:50:23,520 will feel. There is. 868 00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:25,400 You could join the hub. There's a 3 LB. 869 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,280 I know money might be the problem, but there's a 3 LB 870 00:50:28,280 --> 00:50:31,440 option now to be able to use the community in the hub, which 871 00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:33,880 means that you could just use it like the Facebook group, but 872 00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:38,320 it's a smaller way of using it or sorry, a smaller, safer, more 873 00:50:38,320 --> 00:50:42,520 policed environment. So you could potentially use 874 00:50:42,520 --> 00:50:45,960 that. You could tell AGP somebody like 875 00:50:45,960 --> 00:50:48,880 that might be really useful down the line as well. 876 00:50:49,240 --> 00:50:53,320 One thing with CMS, the child maintenance service in the UK, 877 00:50:53,320 --> 00:50:56,160 is that they will ask you if you have to do something called 878 00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,280 collect and pay, where they collect on your behalf and then 879 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:01,320 pay you. So you don't have to do any of 880 00:51:01,320 --> 00:51:04,160 the engagement or depend on them actually putting the money into 881 00:51:04,160 --> 00:51:06,520 your account. If you tell them that you've 882 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,120 told somebody that the relationship is abusive, they 883 00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:12,520 don't charge you a fee for that because normally it would cost 884 00:51:12,960 --> 00:51:15,720 20 lbs. They still will charge you a 885 00:51:15,720 --> 00:51:19,520 percentage, but it's a lot smaller than if you haven't told 886 00:51:19,520 --> 00:51:21,040 someone it's an abusive situation. 887 00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:25,800 So maybe just talking to the GP about it is going to be helpful. 888 00:51:26,440 --> 00:51:31,240 But remember that when we are in these situations, isolation 889 00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,520 makes us start thinking that we are the bad person, that our 890 00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,800 reaction is the problem. And it, you know, we're left 891 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:42,320 alone with our own belief systems and thoughts and their 892 00:51:42,600 --> 00:51:45,920 thoughts and their gaslighting and whatever else is going on. 893 00:51:46,720 --> 00:51:49,160 And so we believe it all in isolation. 894 00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:51,200 Just, it just makes everything worse anyway. 895 00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:54,160 And knowing that someone knows about your situation is really 896 00:51:54,160 --> 00:51:57,920 important. And then one of the most 897 00:51:58,040 --> 00:52:03,400 important things that anybody in this situation can do is start a 898 00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:06,480 log. Log dates, incidents, how the 899 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:09,720 children were impacted. Not that you're kind of building 900 00:52:09,720 --> 00:52:12,440 a case against them, but you're keeping yourself anchored in the 901 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:14,800 reality of what is actually how happening. 902 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:18,400 The log might well be used as evidence further down the line 903 00:52:18,720 --> 00:52:21,640 but in this point what we're trying to do is breakthrough 904 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:24,760 gaslighting break breakthrough the fear, obligation and guilt 905 00:52:25,520 --> 00:52:28,560 week through the narratives of my reaction is the problem 906 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:31,360 rather than the reaction. Sorry the behavior itself. 907 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:38,280 Okay and then another thing you could do is book 1 practical 908 00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,840 advice appointment. So whether that's benefits, 909 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:44,960 housing or legal, doing something really proactive, but 910 00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,080 most importantly, something so that you're not trying to solve 911 00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,080 this whole big thing on your own at 3:00 in the morning when 912 00:52:53,080 --> 00:52:54,880 you're tired, scared, and exhausted. 913 00:52:55,040 --> 00:52:58,640 So as we reach the end, I hope I've answered this enough for 914 00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:01,840 you. I want to reinforce the idea 915 00:53:02,240 --> 00:53:05,280 that you're not a bad person. You're not a bad person for 916 00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:08,240 reaching your limit. You're a person whose limit has 917 00:53:08,240 --> 00:53:14,280 been ignored or far too long. And again, if you're at 918 00:53:14,280 --> 00:53:19,480 immediate risk, call 999. And if not immediate, ask for 919 00:53:19,480 --> 00:53:23,880 help from different services that are there for exactly this 920 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,880 reason. And if you relate to any of the 921 00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:30,680 things that have been discussed in this situation, this is for 922 00:53:30,680 --> 00:53:34,520 you to listen to and absorb to and use. 923 00:53:34,920 --> 00:53:37,800 So thank you so much for listening. 924 00:53:38,120 --> 00:53:42,640 And here we go into 2026. We're looking out for ourselves, 925 00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:46,520 believing ourselves, trusting ourselves, and knowing that life 926 00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:50,560 really is better when we're liberated from toxicity. 927 00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:52,800 That helps. Take care.