1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:04,080 Arguing was always followed by silence when I was growing up. 2 00:00:04,360 --> 00:00:08,680 Hours, days, weeks, months when I then became an adult. 3 00:00:09,000 --> 00:00:13,040 In fact, the reason I'm no contact now is because I simply 4 00:00:13,040 --> 00:00:16,400 asked her not to do something very, very small. 5 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,520 And how dare I? My raising something that upset 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,480 me, or indeed the other way around, was either met with 7 00:00:25,480 --> 00:00:29,720 attack or LED with it. Conflict wasn't about 8 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,759 resolution, it was about destruction of me. 9 00:00:32,759 --> 00:00:35,560 Specifically, it was an opportunity for my mother to 10 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,880 risk her dominance, her control, her priority in my life. 11 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:43,840 From the moment I was born until I went no contact, I learned 12 00:00:43,840 --> 00:00:47,440 that resolution was based on me saying sorry, not on trying to 13 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:52,000 understand what had happened and why, and that nothing but Kate 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:56,280 Payne came from it. I learned that conflict was loud 15 00:00:56,280 --> 00:00:59,360 and angry and belittling and shaming and critical and quite 16 00:00:59,360 --> 00:01:04,200 honestly, an excuse to spew hatred at me on a foundation of 17 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:09,400 something so minor that it often got lost within seconds of the 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,440 opening gambit. I mean, why wouldn't I be 19 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,640 considered inherently evil, given I'd forgotten to put the 20 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,960 new loo on their holder and I wasn't supposed to argue back, 21 00:01:18,960 --> 00:01:21,440 God forbid, or have a voice or an opinion. 22 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,280 And once it was over, I was supposed to pretend it had never 23 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:29,560 happened and never raise how she spoke to me or how hurtful it 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:31,400 was. But that Lero? 25 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:36,480 That Lero could get bought up whenever she needed evidence for 26 00:01:36,480 --> 00:01:40,080 some other imperceptible transgression that needed 27 00:01:40,080 --> 00:01:43,080 additional weight because it was so bloody minor. 28 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:47,680 But I've often said toxic parents have the lumpiest rugs 29 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:50,760 in the world, so adept are they at sweeping things under them. 30 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,560 Because every argument just ends. 31 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,280 No resolution, no accountability, no change. 32 00:01:57,520 --> 00:02:04,000 And the only apology comes from the victims, in my case, from 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,440 me. Or if there was something 34 00:02:06,440 --> 00:02:10,440 resembling an apology, it was sorry you feel that way, or 35 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:15,080 sorry I touched a nerve apologizing for my feelings, my 36 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,720 flaw, rather than their behaviour, their flaw. 37 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,360 So naturally, I avoided conflict at all costs. 38 00:02:22,640 --> 00:02:25,960 Kept quiet about things that bothered me, terrified that if I 39 00:02:25,960 --> 00:02:30,520 did anything other than agree or apologize, I would be presented 40 00:02:30,520 --> 00:02:33,560 with a filing cabinet of evidence of how awful I am. 41 00:02:34,200 --> 00:02:38,440 I mean, of course I avoided it. In my experience, conflict was 42 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,680 always either terminal for a relationship or an opportunity 43 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:45,280 to tell me what an awful human that I was. 44 00:02:45,640 --> 00:02:50,760 I read all conflict as attack as a result, primed and prepped to 45 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,000 defend myself rather than to absorb and listen. 46 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,560 I saw the potential for rejection bulging through the 47 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:02,280 comment, blurring my vision to everything other than avoid 48 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,360 rejection at all costs because rejection was evidence of all 49 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:13,280 the things toxic shame told me I was the worst of humanity rather 50 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,080 than we're in a relationship and for it to keep working and 51 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:18,520 growing, this thing needs to change. 52 00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:22,400 Are you happy to change it? And if I wasn't, does the 53 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:24,840 relationship end? And so on and so forth. 54 00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:29,000 But then I learned differently. I learned that in healthy 55 00:03:29,000 --> 00:03:32,040 relationships, conflict is 1 and done. 56 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:35,480 It's not raised over and over again to back up another 57 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:37,560 argument. It's not a character 58 00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:40,720 assassination. It's about growth, both for the 59 00:03:40,720 --> 00:03:44,080 relationship and for each individual as a person. 60 00:03:44,800 --> 00:03:48,720 That if someone raises something that bothers them, it's actually 61 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:52,120 them caring about the relationship and that this 62 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:54,440 thing. That's a tiny bit of grit right 63 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,600 now, has the potential to become a boulder we stumble over. 64 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:03,120 So we need to work together to find a way to stop that 65 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:06,240 happening in a way that we're both happy with. 66 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,840 And I also learned that distinction will help filter the 67 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,680 toxic people in your life. I remember a few years ago 68 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,519 someone repeatedly accusing me of something I just would never 69 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:19,920 do. And if they really knew me, they 70 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:21,760 would have known that, believed that. 71 00:04:21,959 --> 00:04:25,800 But instead, they weren't prepared to let that possibility 72 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:28,360 exist. They kept applying this motive 73 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,920 to every situation they could shoehorn it in into. 74 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,960 And it felt like I was going mad because I just couldn't see what 75 00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:37,880 they were saying. I didn't agree with their 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,160 perception, but still the accusations came. 77 00:04:41,480 --> 00:04:44,800 I was checking with everyone I trusted to be honest with me, 78 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,600 including my therapist and my supervisor. 79 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:51,640 Because of course, I believe there must be some truth in it 80 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,320 because well, you know, thanks mom. 81 00:04:56,240 --> 00:04:59,480 I call it default blame, that thing where you don't even wear 82 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:00,680 it up. You just start from the 83 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,280 assumption that they're right and wet backwards because you 84 00:05:04,280 --> 00:05:06,480 were always in the wrong growing up. 85 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680 So why would any of this be different? 86 00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,240 Until 1 friend said to me, you know, Helen, sometimes people 87 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,040 are just determined to believe things about you that have 88 00:05:17,040 --> 00:05:20,760 nothing to do with you. And it stopped me in my tracks. 89 00:05:20,880 --> 00:05:24,560 I mean, I knew this thing. I knew that idea, that concept, 90 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:29,160 but did not apply it that because what I realized then was 91 00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:33,600 in that relationship, even though I've heard being assured 92 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:36,120 it was absolutely different in that relationship. 93 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,160 It didn't matter what I said, how I explained, how I examined 94 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,560 and listened and reflected. They wanted to believe I was 95 00:05:44,560 --> 00:05:47,880 doing the thing and there was nothing I could do that would 96 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,400 change that. That was another important thing 97 00:05:51,400 --> 00:05:54,120 I learned about conflict. If someone isn't willing to 98 00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:58,720 work, work towards resolution, if they're not willing to move 99 00:05:58,720 --> 00:06:02,320 their opinion of you and they're only able to see the worst of 100 00:06:02,320 --> 00:06:04,880 you, the conflict isn't for growth. 101 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,200 It's to silence and control you. Because after all, if they 102 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:13,520 really think you could be doing those awful things they're 103 00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:18,680 suggesting, why on earth would they want you in their life? 104 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,040 So it's no wonder you avoid conflict. 105 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:25,360 Not because you're unable to accept the truth about yourself. 106 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:29,080 Might be difficult, might have a whole perfection wound and fear 107 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:31,240 of rejection if you're not perfection, but that's a 108 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:33,480 different thing. But not because of that, but 109 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:37,360 because you've only ever experienced conflict as 110 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:41,640 destruction rather than growth, and it's probably close to 111 00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,360 impossible to someone. Imagine someone bringing 112 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:48,840 conflict to you because they love you rather than because 113 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:52,080 they hate you. Today we're doing conflict. 114 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:55,880 What it actually is, why the version you were given isn't 115 00:06:55,880 --> 00:07:00,120 conflict at all, what happens when brains like ours try to 116 00:07:00,120 --> 00:07:04,560 disagree with each other, and what it looks like to get better 117 00:07:04,560 --> 00:07:08,040 at something that has only ever gone badly for you. 118 00:07:08,640 --> 00:07:11,440 I know you've been asking yourself, am I the problem? 119 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:15,640 Let's find out with me, your host, Helen Villas. 120 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:26,400 Here's what I think happens for a lot of you. 121 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,680 And if it doesn't fit, of course, that's fine. 122 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:33,000 But before you discard it, allow it to roll around and ruminate a 123 00:07:33,000 --> 00:07:35,800 little bit. Marinade and be sure that you're 124 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:38,960 not defending something. Because when we're defending, 125 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:42,240 we're maybe not listening and reflecting. 126 00:07:42,840 --> 00:07:46,440 And then take what's useful and leave the rest. 127 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,360 Knowing it isn't something you relate to is just as important 128 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,080 as knowing something is something you relate to. 129 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:57,920 You don't do conflict, you do capitulation, or you do 130 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:00,800 catastrophe, and there isn't really very much in between. 131 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,040 So either you're agreeing before the other person has even 132 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:07,080 finished their sentence, apologizing for something you're 133 00:08:07,080 --> 00:08:11,240 not even sure you did, absorbing it, moving on, telling yourself 134 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:16,760 it wasn't a big deal, Or you go from mildly irritated to 135 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,000 absolutely certain that this is it, this is the end of the 136 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,280 relationship in the space of about 90 seconds. 137 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:26,960 And then there's what happens afterwards. 138 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,000 The disagreement is over, they've moved on, making a cup 139 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,440 of tea and asking if you want one, and you're still 3 days 140 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:37,600 deep in it, rereading their texts for tone, running the 141 00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,600 conversation again to check whether you said it wrong, 142 00:08:40,679 --> 00:08:42,520 waiting for the other shoe to drop. 143 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,560 That gap between how long it takes them and how long it takes 144 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:51,960 you is enormous, and I think a lot of you have quietly decided 145 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,960 that gap is more evidence that you're the problem, And if 146 00:08:56,200 --> 00:08:59,280 that's not you, fine, but just check it again before you 147 00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,400 decide. Then there's the thing 148 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:05,160 underneath all of it, which is that you probably can't reliably 149 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:08,600 tell the difference between a disagreement and an attack 150 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:12,400 because in the house you grew up in, there just wasn't one. 151 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:15,000 Someone says can we talk about something? 152 00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:20,000 And your entire system goes just red DEFCON 3 because in your 153 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:24,480 experience, can we talk about something was never followed by 154 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:27,360 a conversation. It was followed by an hour of 155 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,160 being told what's wrong with you, and those things were 156 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:33,880 probably lies anyway. There's also the version of this 157 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:36,680 that happens entirely inside your own head, which is where 158 00:09:36,680 --> 00:09:39,280 you have the conflict with them without them. 159 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:42,720 Weeks of it, the entire argument in which you say it perfectly 160 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,720 and they finally understand, and then you say nothing to them and 161 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,280 the actual thing never gets raised at all. 162 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,240 I have to say, the arguments that I've won in my kitchen at 163 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:55,840 11:00 at night against people who weren't even there are some 164 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:59,640 of my finest work, I must admit. So I'm going to pull you up on 165 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:02,640 something here, gently. You've probably described 166 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,200 yourself as conflict avoidant, maybe even as someone who hates 167 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:09,720 confrontation like it's a personality trait, like it's 168 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,280 just how you're built. It isn't. 169 00:10:12,840 --> 00:10:15,960 It's learned, and I'm going to show you exactly how. 170 00:10:17,280 --> 00:10:20,000 Start with what conflict actually is, because I don't 171 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:24,920 think any of us ever really get shown conflict is 2 people who 172 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:28,280 disagree about something, both of whom have standing to say so 173 00:10:28,640 --> 00:10:31,960 working out what to do about it. It's absolutely not about 174 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,920 winning, it's not a competition. There aren't trophies being 175 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,440 given out to the person who gets proven right. 176 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,520 It's about the relationship. That's the thing that comes out 177 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,280 of conflict, better or worse. That's it. 178 00:10:44,680 --> 00:10:48,560 That's the entire thing. Now compare that to what you 179 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:52,320 got, which was a dominance event with a winner and a loser, and 180 00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:55,960 the loser was always you. Because in a toxic house, 181 00:10:56,160 --> 00:10:59,200 conflict isn't about the disagreement, it's how the 182 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,800 hierarchy gets reasserted. And that's why the new role just 183 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:04,960 doesn't matter. Why the actual subject of the 184 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:07,880 argument goes missing within seconds of the opening gambit. 185 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:09,800 Because the subject was never the point. 186 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:12,200 The subject, it was just the way in. 187 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,600 I obviously don't know for sure what any individual parent 188 00:11:15,600 --> 00:11:18,720 intends by that, and I certainly can't say whether it's conscious 189 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,040 or what level it's conscious on. But there's that pattern where a 190 00:11:23,040 --> 00:11:26,640 small thing reliably becomes a referendum on your entire 191 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:30,360 character, and where it happens again and again over years. 192 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,120 What that behaviour communicates is that the small thing was an 193 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:38,560 opportunity, not a grievance. So what gets installed isn't I'm 194 00:11:38,560 --> 00:11:41,760 bad at conflict. What gets installed is conflict 195 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:45,600 is a threat to my continued existence in this relationship. 196 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,480 And I want to be very clear that this was an accurate reading of 197 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:52,520 your environment. It wasn't a distortion. 198 00:11:52,760 --> 00:11:55,920 You learned the correct lesson about the house you were in. 199 00:11:56,320 --> 00:11:59,800 The problem is you're now applying it in houses that 200 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,480 aren't that one. And the reason it's so sticky is 201 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,760 straightforward learning, which is that conceding ended the 202 00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,000 threat. Every single time you apologized 203 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:12,080 and it stopped, that behaviour got stronger. 204 00:12:12,080 --> 00:12:15,320 Every time you kept quiet and the storm passed over you rather 205 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:17,800 than landing on you, that got stronger too. 206 00:12:18,040 --> 00:12:20,960 This is basic operant conditioning, and it's not a 207 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:23,480 character flaw. It's your brain doing exactly 208 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,280 what brains do, which is repeat what works. 209 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,760 Which is also why understanding all of this hasn't fixed it. 210 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,240 And I know some of you are going to be furious about that. 211 00:12:32,320 --> 00:12:34,080 Me too. I get it. 212 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:37,040 You've read the books, you've done the therapy. 213 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,920 You can explain your own conditioning better than most 214 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:43,600 professionals, and you still say sorry to someone who's just 215 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:46,040 accused you of something that you didn't do. 216 00:12:46,680 --> 00:12:49,520 Insight doesn't undo conditioning, only new 217 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,080 experience does. And new experience is precisely 218 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:55,880 the thing you spent your whole life avoiding because it 219 00:12:55,880 --> 00:12:57,840 terrifies you. Of course it does. 220 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:02,000 That's the trap, and we'll get to how you get out of it in a 221 00:13:02,000 --> 00:13:04,760 bit. You also learned that conflict 222 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,280 has a shelf life of forever because nothing was ever 223 00:13:08,280 --> 00:13:10,520 finished. The new role was still available 224 00:13:10,520 --> 00:13:13,760 as evidence two years later. So you have no experience of a 225 00:13:13,760 --> 00:13:17,520 thing being genuinely over. Which means when somebody in 226 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,560 your adult life says no, honestly, it's fine with it's 227 00:13:20,560 --> 00:13:22,640 done, you just don't believe them. 228 00:13:22,840 --> 00:13:26,120 You can't. You've got no data for it. 229 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,240 And so you keep checking. You bring it up again to make 230 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:31,440 sure you apologize a second time and a third. 231 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:35,000 And what you're actually doing is looking for the reassurance 232 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:38,040 that it's finished. And reassurance seeking has this 233 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:43,120 horrible quality where it works for about 4 minutes and then you 234 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:45,400 need it again. And the person giving it starts 235 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,800 to get slightly irritated, which then confirms the fear that 236 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,320 started the whole thing off. Now, where our brains come into 237 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,040 this? And both directions matter here. 238 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,280 For those of us with ADHD, emotional dysregulation is a 239 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:01,920 well evidenced core feature. It isn't the diagnostic 240 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,520 criteria, sorry. It isn't in the diagnostic 241 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:09,840 criteria in either DSM 5 or ICD 11, which is a real genuine gap 242 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:12,160 and one worth being really honest about rather than 243 00:14:12,160 --> 00:14:14,400 glossing over. I've spoken about it before, but 244 00:14:14,680 --> 00:14:18,680 the evidence base for it as a feature of ADHD is solid and it 245 00:14:18,680 --> 00:14:21,040 is being looked at being included. 246 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,400 Russell Barclay's work on inhibition is where a lot of 247 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,840 this sits. What it means in practice is 248 00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,480 that the emotional response arrives at full volume before 249 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:34,200 you've had a chance to assess whether or not it's warranted. 250 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:38,040 So somebody says something mildly critical about how you 251 00:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,840 loaded the dishwasher, and before any thinking has 252 00:14:40,840 --> 00:14:42,920 happened, you are already flooded. 253 00:14:43,480 --> 00:14:47,520 Then you're managing the flood rather than the conversation, 254 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,520 and the conversation is still going on without you. 255 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:53,640 And I'd add that the flooding itself becomes a thing you're 256 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,080 ashamed of. So now you're in a disagreement 257 00:14:56,080 --> 00:15:00,160 about the dishwasher, managing a physical response that you just 258 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:02,640 can't control, and simultaneously running 259 00:15:02,640 --> 00:15:06,920 commentary about how ridiculous you're being, which is 3 jobs 260 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,480 and the conversation only needed one. 261 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,960 Then there's impulse control, which is the other half of it. 262 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,440 And here I mean the gap between feeling something and doing it. 263 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,920 Or rather than the absence of 1, the thing you say in the heat of 264 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:22,600 the moment that you spend the next fortnight paying for. 265 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,800 Which then feeds the shame, which makes the next conflict 266 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,680 more dangerous, which makes you you avoid it harder. 267 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:35,040 And absolutely no judgement because I used to do the same 268 00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,080 thing. I've said things in the heat of 269 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:41,160 a moment that I would give quite a lot to have back, and the 270 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,480 fortnight afterwards a lot of fun. 271 00:15:44,120 --> 00:15:47,760 For those of you who are who are autistic is different and it 272 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,760 stacks on top. Processing time is real. 273 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,160 If you need longer to work out what you actually think, and the 274 00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:57,240 conversation is happening at speed, you'll agree to things 275 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,800 you don't agree with simply because agreement is the only 276 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:03,320 response available at the speed required. 277 00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:07,400 Then an hour later or the next morning, your actual position 278 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:11,000 arrives, and by then the conversation is closed and 279 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:13,560 reopening it feels like starting a fight. 280 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:18,840 So you don't open it, reopen it, and then you're living with an 281 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:21,360 agreement you never made, resenting it quietly. 282 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:24,320 The other person has no idea because as far as they're 283 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,640 concerned it was settled amicably. 284 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:29,800 There's also straightforward communication mismatch. 285 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:33,280 Directness read as aggression when it was just information, a 286 00:16:33,280 --> 00:16:35,840 comment taken literally when it was hyperbole. 287 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:40,720 Tone that doesn't match the content in either direction. 288 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,200 None of that is a deficit. It's a mismatch, and mismatches 289 00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,480 are two way. But you've been trained to 290 00:16:48,480 --> 00:16:52,960 assume the fault is always at your end, which is where the 291 00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:56,680 default blame does it's work. Default blame is the thing that 292 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:00,360 I described in the opening where somebody says you've done 293 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,160 something and you don't weigh it up at all. 294 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,160 You skip straight to looking for how they're right. 295 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,839 You go and check with other people, you examine yourself, 296 00:17:07,839 --> 00:17:11,480 you go back through the evidence looking for your crime. 297 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,000 And that feels like humility. It feels like being a reflective 298 00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:18,839 person who's open to feedback is honestly one of the most 299 00:17:18,839 --> 00:17:22,359 convincing disguises this this stuff wears because it looks 300 00:17:22,560 --> 00:17:27,240 like a strength, a virtue even. But being open to feedback means 301 00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,520 considering it, weighing it, deciding default. 302 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,520 Blame skips all of that and goes straight to conviction. 303 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,200 And a person who convicts themselves before hearing the 304 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,800 evidence isn't being humble, they're being obedient. 305 00:17:42,560 --> 00:17:44,880 Now, I know some of you will be bristling at that word. 306 00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:47,680 Me too. I'm not calling you obedient as 307 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:49,560 an insult. You were trained into it 308 00:17:49,560 --> 00:17:53,400 deliberately over years by people who benefited from you 309 00:17:53,400 --> 00:17:55,200 being that way. That's not a character 310 00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,200 judgement, it's a description of what happened to you. 311 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,360 Now here's where this gets genuinely useful. 312 00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:05,320 Because default blame is also the thing that stops you telling 313 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,520 the difference between the two kinds of conflict. 314 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,360 Conflict for Growth looks like this. 315 00:18:12,160 --> 00:18:15,800 Somebody raises a specific thing, they stay on that thing. 316 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:19,640 They want to know your side, and their position can actually 317 00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:21,640 move. There's a resolution, and 318 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:24,120 afterwards it's finished. It doesn't come back as 319 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:28,040 ammunition six months later. Conflict for Control looks like 320 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,720 this. The specific thing expands into 321 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:33,760 your character. Your explanation doesn't change 322 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,040 anything. Their position was fixed before 323 00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,600 the conversation started. There's no resolution available 324 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,960 because resolution was never the goal and it gets brought back 325 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:49,040 whenever it's needed. The teller is whether their view 326 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,040 of you can move. That's it. 327 00:18:51,440 --> 00:18:54,320 That is the test. And what my friend said to me, 328 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:57,280 that sometimes people are determined to believe things 329 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,680 about you that have nothing to do with you, is the same test 330 00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:05,200 from the other side. If nothing you say makes any 331 00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,520 difference, you're not in a disagreement, you're in a 332 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:11,760 verdict. Which brings me to something you 333 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:14,200 need to hear, because default blame will fight you on it. 334 00:19:14,480 --> 00:19:18,360 If somebody genuinely believes you're capable of the awful 335 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:21,760 thing that they're accusing you of, and they're not willing to 336 00:19:21,760 --> 00:19:26,280 have that belief tested, that tells you something about the 337 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,800 relationship that has nothing to do with whether or not you did 338 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,600 it. Because why would they want you 339 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:36,080 in their life if they thought that of you? 340 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:39,280 Let me flip this for you, because I think you'll accept it 341 00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:41,960 faster about someone else than maybe about yourself. 342 00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:44,040 Always works pretty well in therapy. 343 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,480 Imagine a friend tells you that their partner has accused them 344 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,480 of something that they would just never do. 345 00:19:49,920 --> 00:19:52,280 They've explained, they've apologized for the 346 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:55,480 misunderstanding, they've gone over it, and the partner won't 347 00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:58,200 move. They ask you whether they should 348 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,200 try explaining again. What do you tell them? 349 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,000 You tell them explaining isn't the problem and you'd probably 350 00:20:06,000 --> 00:20:11,040 be quite angry on their behalf. Now flip it back and apply that 351 00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:14,320 to yourself. Notice how much harder that is. 352 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,240 That difficulty is the conditioning sitting right there 353 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,240 where you can feel it. And I want to name an objection 354 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:25,400 here because I know some of you are already probably thinking it 355 00:20:25,840 --> 00:20:28,520 and it's a fair 1. Doesn't this just give you 356 00:20:28,520 --> 00:20:31,960 permission to dismiss any criticism as control? 357 00:20:32,360 --> 00:20:36,440 Can't you use their view? Can't move to avoid ever hearing 358 00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:38,040 anything difficult about yourself? 359 00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:44,120 Yeah, you absolutely could. And some people do, which is why 360 00:20:44,120 --> 00:20:46,800 it isn't about whether the feedback is uncomfortable. 361 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,280 Same test as before. Can they engage with what you 362 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,120 say back someone who says that's fair? 363 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,560 I hadn't thought about it that way, but I still think the 364 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:59,720 underlying thing stands is in a conversation with you, someone 365 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,600 who says the same sentence back for the fifth time regardless of 366 00:21:03,600 --> 00:21:07,400 what you said, is not. And honestly, given how 367 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,840 voraciously most of you accept criticism about yourselves, the 368 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,880 risk of you over dismissing feedback is not the one that 369 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:17,080 keeps me up at night. And let me tell you, you could 370 00:21:17,080 --> 00:21:21,720 apply that idea of whether or not I was just looking for a 371 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,480 reason to dismiss the thing that was being said or I was being 372 00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:30,800 accused of as control. I wasn't because I was asking 373 00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,920 the questions. What is it that makes you think 374 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:35,240 that? What is it that makes you feel 375 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:36,680 that? Please explain to me. 376 00:21:37,040 --> 00:21:40,640 And the answer would just be the same back over and over and over 377 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,160 again. It never shifted. 378 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:47,640 And then another one came along and the same accusation and the 379 00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,560 same questions and it never shifted. 380 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:56,840 So there is a big difference between using it as an excuse, 381 00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:59,920 who justified dismissing something that you don't want to 382 00:21:59,920 --> 00:22:03,720 hear about yourself, and it actually being done. 383 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:10,360 If today's episode landed, the place to take it further is the 384 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:12,120 Hub. The Hub is my membership 385 00:22:12,120 --> 00:22:14,480 community, and it's where the people who listen to this 386 00:22:14,480 --> 00:22:18,080 podcast go when they actually want to do something with it 387 00:22:18,360 --> 00:22:20,320 rather than just understand it better. 388 00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,200 Their courses live calls in a community of people who've had 389 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:26,160 roughly the same childhood in different clothing, which means 390 00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:29,920 that you can describe the blue roll incident and nobody asks 391 00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:32,240 you to explain why that was a big deal. 392 00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,640 I would love to see you there. It's Liberation 393 00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:41,520 academy.co.uk/the Hyphen Hub. Come and have a look and maybe 394 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,120 join in. Take care. 395 00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:48,200 Bye. Anyway, moving on. 396 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:52,880 So now friendships where a lot of you, I think, maybe have the 397 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:57,200 least language and possibly actually the most damage. 398 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:00,800 Romantic relationships get talked about endlessly. 399 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,560 Friendship conflict barely gets talked about at all. 400 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,440 And I think that's because there's this kind of unspoken 401 00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:11,360 idea, rather that friendship is supposed to be the easy one, the 402 00:23:11,360 --> 00:23:15,480 one without all the negotiation. So when it goes wrong, there's 403 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:18,600 absolutely no framework for it and no permission to make a 404 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,520 fuss. So what happens instead is you 405 00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,480 just don't raise it. The friend cancels for the 4th 406 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:27,480 time, or says something that stings, or you notice you're 407 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,880 always the one making contact and you say nothing. 408 00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:34,040 Because a friendship feels like a thing you have no standing to 409 00:23:34,040 --> 00:23:36,360 complain about. You're not married to them, 410 00:23:36,560 --> 00:23:39,760 there's no contract, they could just leave. 411 00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:43,960 And that's the fear underneath it, that friendship is the most 412 00:23:43,960 --> 00:23:47,800 easily discarded relationship you have, so raising anything at 413 00:23:47,800 --> 00:23:52,440 all risks the whole thing. So instead of conflict, you get 414 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,440 slow withdrawal, you reply a bit less, you stop suggesting 415 00:23:56,440 --> 00:24:01,560 things, the friendship just stops without either of you ever 416 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:04,880 saying why. And you tell yourself, yeah, we 417 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:07,880 just drifted apart. And that's not you being a bad 418 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:11,760 friend, that's you doing the only thing you were ever shown 419 00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:17,360 to do, whether it was at home or socially, which was to disappear 420 00:24:17,360 --> 00:24:21,520 rather than say the thing that may not be your person at all. 421 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,160 That's fine. Again, it's useful to know. 422 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:28,800 I'd say though, that that's one of the saddest patterns I do 423 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:32,320 come across because a lot of those cases the friend would 424 00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,640 have been horrified to know and would have changed the thing or 425 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,200 talked about it and found a way through and would still be in 426 00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,320 their lives. The thing that you're missing, 427 00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:46,240 potentially, is that raising something with a friend is a 428 00:24:46,240 --> 00:24:49,160 compliment. You don't do the frightening 429 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:53,120 thing for a relationship that you're indifferent to somebody 430 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:55,440 bringing you a grievances, telling you that they want to 431 00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,320 keep you. And if you can hear it that way 432 00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,000 round, it changes what the conversation is. 433 00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:05,480 And the same test applies as everywhere else. 434 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,600 If you raise something small with a friend, and that view can 435 00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,280 move, that friendship has just got sturdier. 436 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,880 If it can't, you've learned something you needed to know and 437 00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,520 you've learned it over something small rather than finding out in 438 00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,440 a crisis. Now the other thing about 439 00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:25,160 conflict, which is what happens when both of you have brains 440 00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:27,800 like ours. What I see a lot is a couple 441 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,480 where the argument isn't the argument at all, it's the 442 00:25:30,840 --> 00:25:34,000 recovery mismatch. One of them is done in 20 443 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:37,000 minutes and genuinely doesn't understand why the other is 444 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,680 still upset three days later. The other one needs 3 days and 445 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,600 experiences the 20 minute recovery as proof that the 446 00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,000 relationship just doesn't matter to the partner. 447 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,440 Both are reading the other's nervous system as a statement 448 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:53,480 about the relationship and neither of them is doing 449 00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,040 anything wrong. Same thing with processing 450 00:25:56,040 --> 00:25:57,720 speed. One person needs to resolve it 451 00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:01,640 now because unresolved conflict is unbearable to them and their 452 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,480 whole system is screaming. The other needs 6 hours before 453 00:26:05,480 --> 00:26:09,080 they can even locate what they think, and the request for time 454 00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:12,480 gets heard as a withdrawal, which for someone raised on the 455 00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:15,440 silent treatment is the most frightening thing in the world. 456 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,040 So they push, which makes the other person need more time. 457 00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:21,960 And round and round it goes. Flip it. 458 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:25,560 Imagine one of your children came home visibly upset and 459 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,280 needed 20 minutes in their room before they could tell you what 460 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,120 happened. And imagine standing outside 461 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,920 that door insisting they explain now because you needed to know 462 00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:38,520 now you wouldn't. I hope you'd wait. 463 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,480 And you'd probably be actually quite proud of them for knowing 464 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:43,600 what they needed. Maybe a little envious too. 465 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:46,760 The same courtesy applies to the adults in your life. 466 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:51,280 And, and this is the harder half, it applies to you as well. 467 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,560 While we're on children, there's a version of this that a lot of 468 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:57,760 you are living with right now, which is conflict with your own 469 00:26:58,000 --> 00:27:00,280 kids. Because the only template you 470 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:02,840 were given for how a parent handles a child disagreeing with 471 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,240 them is the one you've spent your entire adult life either 472 00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:11,000 refusing to use or copying because you didn't know any 473 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,440 better. No judgement. 474 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:16,280 So your child pushes back about bedtime or tells you something 475 00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:19,880 you said was unfair, and there's genuinely nothing available in 476 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:23,840 your head about what to do next. Because the only thing in there 477 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:25,640 is the thing that you've promised yourself you would 478 00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:30,320 never do, or again, the thing that you do do because you don't 479 00:27:30,320 --> 00:27:33,640 know any different. So a lot of you just go 480 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:35,600 completely the other way and give in every time. 481 00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:39,040 And a lot of you don't. But if you give in, it's because 482 00:27:39,320 --> 00:27:42,200 any firmness at all feels like you've become them. 483 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:45,520 I'd say that's understandable, and I'd also say it isn't 484 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,240 working. And if that stings, it isn't a 485 00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:53,640 criticism of you as a parent. You were given a template and 486 00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:57,760 told to build something you'd just never seen that a child 487 00:27:57,760 --> 00:27:59,720 needs to experience disagreement. 488 00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:03,640 That doesn't destroy anything because that's how they learn. 489 00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:07,240 Conflict is survivable and they can only learn that from 490 00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560 watching you hold a position kindly and stay in a room. 491 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,480 Giving in teaches them your position was never real. 492 00:28:14,640 --> 00:28:17,960 Arguing back to silence also does the same thing. 493 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,800 It teaches them also when you're giving in that pushing hard gets 494 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:27,600 results, which is not the lesson that anyone wants. 495 00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,000 That is also operant conditioning them of you. 496 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:35,720 You can say no, explain it, hear their objection properly, and 497 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,520 still say no. That's conflict done well, and 498 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,440 it will feel to you like you are being cruel. 499 00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:46,240 You may project onto them your feelings from childhood, but 500 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,280 you're not being. Which brings me to the 501 00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,120 relationship advice you may well have been given, most of which 502 00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,320 was not built for brains like ours. 503 00:28:54,880 --> 00:28:58,600 Never go to bed angry is a terrible rule for someone who 504 00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,160 needs processing time. All it guarantees is a 505 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:06,000 conversation conducted by two exhausted people at 12:30, which 506 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,080 is not a conversation, it's an endurance event. 507 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:13,960 Use I statements assumes you can identify what you need and 508 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,440 sorry, what you feel rather or even need in real time. 509 00:29:17,440 --> 00:29:21,960 Which if you listen to episode 1 you'll know is not a given for a 510 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:25,280 lot of us, and repair in the moment assumes both people 511 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:29,120 regulate at the same rate, which is exactly what we've just 512 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,640 established is often not true. None of that advice is 513 00:29:32,640 --> 00:29:34,360 malicious. Just want to be very clear. 514 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:38,840 Just wasn't written with autistic or ADHD brains in mind. 515 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:43,000 And when it doesn't work, you've quite reasonably concluded that 516 00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,760 you're the broken thing. So what do you actually do? 517 00:29:47,760 --> 00:29:50,440 The first thing, and it has to happen when you're calm is 518 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:52,960 deciding in advance what distinguishes A disagreement 519 00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,080 from danger for you because you cannot assess that live your 520 00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,000 system has already responded before any assessment could 521 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,600 happen. But most people it comes down to 522 00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:06,520 something like are they talking about the thing or about me? 523 00:30:06,680 --> 00:30:09,640 Can their view move? And is that this going to come 524 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,040 back at me later? Write your version down 525 00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:13,480 somewhere you'll actually find it. 526 00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,800 Which for those of us with ADHD is a genuine design problem and 527 00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,440 not a joke. And the failure mode on this 528 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:21,040 one? So you're expecting it. 529 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:24,680 You'll write the list and then in the moment you won't remember 530 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:26,800 a single word of it. It's not the list failing. 531 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,120 Even having written it changes what you notice afterwards, and 532 00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:33,520 afterwards is where you'll do most of your early work. 533 00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,080 Because live is just too fast for now. 534 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:40,560 Then once you've got that even loosely in place, the prepared 535 00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:44,760 line, you are going to freeze. That's not a prediction I'm 536 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,640 making about you personally. It's the baseline for this 537 00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:49,840 audience. If you freeze in the moment, you 538 00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,400 have not failed. You've done the thing that your 539 00:30:52,400 --> 00:30:56,840 brain was trained to do under threat, which is why you prepare 540 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:01,360 lines when you're not in it. I need to think about that and 541 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,680 I'll come back to you. I don't agree, but I want to 542 00:31:04,680 --> 00:31:07,200 understand why you see it that way. 543 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,400 That's not going to work for me. That is the whole line. 544 00:31:11,960 --> 00:31:15,120 That last one is a complete sentence and does not require a 545 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:18,480 justification afterwards that you will want to add it one, and 546 00:31:18,480 --> 00:31:22,120 it will take you a very long time before you stop. 547 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,400 The failure mode here is that it will feel like lying. 548 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:27,920 It might even feel like manipulation or control. 549 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,000 You'll see the prepared line and your whole body will tell you 550 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,120 that you're being fake, manipulative, performing 551 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,520 something that isn't you. That's not a signal that you're 552 00:31:36,520 --> 00:31:39,520 doing it wrong, that's just what saying something unfamiliar 553 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,040 feels like when the familiar thing was silence. 554 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,600 Then there's the pause and this is the one I'd want you to take 555 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:52,800 away if you take nothing else, if you need time, take it, but 556 00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:55,280 say when you're coming back and then come back. 557 00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:57,480 I need an hour and then I want to finish. 558 00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:01,400 This is a completely different act from walking out of the room 559 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:05,200 because an open-ended withdrawal is the silent treatment, whether 560 00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:08,200 you mean it that way or not. And for someone raise the way 561 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:10,800 that you were being on the receiving end of that is 562 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,080 terrifying. Adult or child, your need for 563 00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,680 processing time is 100% legitimate. 564 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:21,200 Attaching a return time to it is what makes it a boundary rather 565 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,280 than a punishment. And if you're the one waiting, 566 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:27,800 the hour is not rejection. Be firm with yourself about that 567 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:31,680 because your brain will spend that hour building a case that 568 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,920 it is the failure mode on. This one is ADHD specific and 569 00:32:35,920 --> 00:32:38,600 it's a big one. You'll say an hour and then 570 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,320 genuinely lose the hour and I'm laughing a little bit because 571 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:46,080 same, same, same. And I genuinely apologize to 572 00:32:46,080 --> 00:32:50,440 every single person that I have ever said I will be an hour and 573 00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,120 lost that time because I didn't have this technique. 574 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:57,280 Set an alarm. And it sounds absurd for 575 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:00,000 something absurd, for something emotional. 576 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,280 It's a bit absurd to somebody who doesn't have a brain like 577 00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:07,080 ours, but it also protects the other person, the person you 578 00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:11,760 care about, the person you love and want the relationship to 579 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:16,400 succeed with, from experiencing your time blindness as 580 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:20,560 abandonment. Now, the repair, Because the 581 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:23,400 thing you said in the heat of the moment is not the 582 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,440 catastrophe you think it is. See, it landed badly. 583 00:33:26,840 --> 00:33:28,560 That came out harsher than I meant. 584 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,840 I'm sorry. What I was trying to say was 585 00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,400 this. That's repair and it takes about 586 00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:36,400 10 seconds. It isn't a confession that 587 00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,640 you're fundamentally the problem and it doesn't reopen the whole 588 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:43,040 thing. Default blame will try to turn 1 589 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:46,200 sharp sentence into proof of everything you already think 590 00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:48,840 about yourself. Notice it doing that. 591 00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,440 You're allowed to have said something badly and still be 592 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:55,760 right about the underlying .2. Things can be true at once. 593 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:59,840 The other little twisteroo in this situation is that in the 594 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:04,320 past, conceding any kind of agreement or fault to their 595 00:34:04,320 --> 00:34:07,560 points might have meant annihilation when the toxic 596 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,280 parent or whomever it was latched onto it and used it 597 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:14,440 against you. So you become defensive and 598 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,840 defended, and when you realize there might be a awkward point 599 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,920 to their argument, you panic a bit because you're terrified 600 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:27,520 they will do the same. But if they do, that's data 601 00:34:27,679 --> 00:34:31,280 about them and the relationship accountability shouldn't be met 602 00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:34,239 with a ha ha I knew it. You really are evil. 603 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,920 It should be accepted with thanks and that's really 604 00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:42,800 helpful. Just grace conflict for growth, 605 00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:46,760 not for points. For those of you where 606 00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,679 communication mismatch is the recurring issue, the useful move 607 00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:54,760 is agreeing it out loud with the people who matter outside of any 608 00:34:54,760 --> 00:34:57,320 argument. Something like I take things 609 00:34:57,320 --> 00:35:00,120 really literally that sometimes and I might miss that you were 610 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,760 joking so I'm going to ask rather than assume. 611 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,880 Or my tone doesn't always match what I mean. 612 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:10,040 So if I sound sharp, please check with me and I will also 613 00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:12,320 maybe correct myself too, you know? 614 00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:16,800 And then the actual work, which is asking what someone meant 615 00:35:16,800 --> 00:35:20,200 rather than deciding, because deciding is faster and feels 616 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,440 safer and is wrong more often than you'd think. 617 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:27,160 There's one more, which is the one you'll skip. 618 00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:30,480 Raise one tiny thing with somebody safe. 619 00:35:30,840 --> 00:35:33,120 Not the big thing. The small thing you'd normally 620 00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:34,880 absorb the wrong order in the coffee shop. 621 00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,160 The friend who is 20 minutes late and say it once. 622 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:42,760 Plainly, the failure mode here is that this feels too small to 623 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:45,000 matter and you'll conclude it just doesn't count. 624 00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:48,560 It counts more than anything else because you cannot practice 625 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:50,240 conflict on the terrifying stuff. 626 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,760 And every small thing that you say and survive is data that 627 00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,360 your brain didn't have yesterday. 628 00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,800 Now what progress actually looks like, because I really want you 629 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:02,240 to just have a very realistic measure. 630 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,480 Progress is not calm conflict. You may never have calm 631 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:09,120 conflict. And I'd say I'm pretty got there 632 00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:11,960 myself for all my training and therapy and knowing exactly how 633 00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,680 all this works. I say every episode. 634 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,480 It still catches me out, especially when I'm tired or in 635 00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:19,640 pain or my cognitive load is already high. 636 00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:23,720 Progress is short of recovery. Three days becomes a day, a day 637 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,680 becomes an evening, an evening becomes a couple of hours and a 638 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,920 slightly rough night's sleep. Progress is noticing the flood 639 00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,640 while it's happening rather than a week later. 640 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,600 Progress is saying the thing badly rather than not saying it 641 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,800 at all. And the response coming back, 642 00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:43,080 sometimes under fatigue or stress, or when someone reminds 643 00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:47,000 you of them, doesn't mean you've undone your progress. 644 00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:49,560 Conditioned responses get overwritten. 645 00:36:49,560 --> 00:36:52,920 They don't get deleted. So the old one resurfacing is 646 00:36:52,920 --> 00:36:56,600 information about your load that day, not a verdict on the work. 647 00:36:56,960 --> 00:37:01,120 One last thing, none of this works with someone who 648 00:37:01,120 --> 00:37:03,800 escalates. If you're in a relationship or a 649 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,120 situation where raising something safely isn't available 650 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:11,200 to you, where the cost of speaking is genuinely high, then 651 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,080 the timing of that is yours to judge. 652 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:19,800 And nobody, including me, is in a position to tell you when, OK, 653 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,120 this is the bit that you might not enjoy. 654 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,320 Understanding why you avoid conflict is the start of the 655 00:37:27,320 --> 00:37:28,680 work. It's not the work. 656 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:31,920 And I think some of you have got very good at the explanation. 657 00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:34,960 You can say I'm conflict avoidant because of my childhood 658 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:37,600 with real fluency. And it's true. 659 00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,960 And it's also become the thing that you say instead of the 660 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,720 difficult thing that you need to say. 661 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:47,040 The explanation was supposed to be a starting point. 662 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,240 It's turned into somewhere to sort of just sit down and stop. 663 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:54,080 I'm not blaming you for that, because the explanation 664 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,680 genuinely does bring relief, and the relief is reinforcing. 665 00:37:56,840 --> 00:38:00,440 So of course you go back to it. And you were taught over years 666 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,680 that speaking up carries a cost that you cannot pay. 667 00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,480 That's conditioning, not cowardice. 668 00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:11,080 And I am not confusing the 2. So here's what you owe yourself, 669 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,760 and it isn't conflict done well. You owe yourself the sentence 670 00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,080 said badly, slightly the wrong moment, in a voice that maybe 671 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:21,080 shakes, possibly followed by a shame spiral that you'll have to 672 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:23,880 talk yourself down from over the next two days. 673 00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:28,240 Not conflict done well, Conflict done at all. 674 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:33,080 Because every year you spend not saying it is another year of 675 00:38:33,080 --> 00:38:36,200 evidence for your brain that's saying it would have been 676 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,320 unsurvivable and you can't build the counter evidence without 677 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:44,200 doing the thing. Next week is the last episode of 678 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:48,120 the season, and we're talking about a work in progress, what 679 00:38:48,120 --> 00:38:51,960 realistic change actually looks like when you've got a brain 680 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:53,800 like ours and a childhood like ours. 681 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:58,720 So I want to know, what does progress look like for you 682 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:01,280 specifically? Not the big version, the small, 683 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,440 measurable one that you'd actually notice. 684 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:07,360 There we are. Thank you, as ever, for 685 00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,280 listening. And all that remains to be said 686 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:11,480 is take care.