1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:05,280 Hi everyone, welcome to another episode of Recovery Talk. 2 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,120 In this episode we are going to talk about OCD and eating 3 00:00:10,120 --> 00:00:12,240 disorders. So the aim of this? 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:15,360 Episode is to help you understand the relationship 5 00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:18,040 between those. Conditions and I'm also going 6 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:20,160 to. Talk a bit about why. 7 00:00:20,160 --> 00:00:23,560 An eating. Disorder is very similar to OCD, 8 00:00:23,560 --> 00:00:26,200 to a point. Where we can, maybe even. 9 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:30,480 Conceptualise it as a form of OCD and I'm also going to talk a 10 00:00:30,480 --> 00:00:36,400 bit about a specific type of OCD that tends to happen in people 11 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:41,560 with eating disorders and some common OCD like patterns and 12 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:43,680 behaviours that often see in clients. 13 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,480 So let's get into it. I think to begin with, what is 14 00:00:46,480 --> 00:00:50,360 very helpful is just understanding what OCD is and 15 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:54,200 what it isn't. OCD is one of those conditions 16 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,360 where there's so much misunderstanding from society 17 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,080 about what on earth it even. Is people tend to think. 18 00:01:02,080 --> 00:01:05,840 OCD just means someone who is really, really obsessive with 19 00:01:05,840 --> 00:01:08,200 cleaning. That would be like the total 20 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,880 layperson's understanding of it, and then people who understand a 21 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,040 bit more may understand that it has to do with rituals and 22 00:01:15,040 --> 00:01:19,440 compulsions, for example hand. Cleaning or needing to touch the 23 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:21,800 doorknob. A certain amount of times, but 24 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:25,480 that's just an example of how this disorder may manifest. 25 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:27,680 It can manifest in different ways, which we'll get back to in 26 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,400 a bit. To put it very simply, OCDAKA 27 00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:35,440 Obsessive Compulsive disorder is a mental health condition 28 00:01:35,440 --> 00:01:40,240 characterised by, as the name may suggest, obsessions and 29 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,880 compulsions. So typically there would be 30 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:46,960 these obsessive intrusive thoughts that are only 31 00:01:46,960 --> 00:01:51,520 alleviated or the person feel is only alleviated by engaging in 32 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:54,720 compulsions. So for example, someone may have 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,920 this obsessive intrusive thought about someone breaking into the 34 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:01,040 house because they forgot to lock the door. 35 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:04,640 So they go and check that the door is really locked again and 36 00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:08,320 again and again and in the moment and gives them a slight 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:10,039 sense of relief. But the fact. 38 00:02:10,039 --> 00:02:12,720 That they keep doing the behaviour only reinforces the 39 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:16,480 anxiety because they are signalising to their brain that, 40 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,800 yeah, you have a good reason to be really concerned about that. 41 00:02:19,920 --> 00:02:23,120 So the brain keeps sending. Inside anxiety signals and the 42 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:27,120 person is stuck in a loop that is of course a very simplified 43 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:29,960 version about what's actually going on in the brain and OCD. 44 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:32,040 But it is important to understand that. 45 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:35,160 And this is also where it is similar to an eating disorder 46 00:02:35,160 --> 00:02:38,720 because an eating disorders there also often are obsessions 47 00:02:38,920 --> 00:02:42,480 that feels relieved by compulsions, but then the 48 00:02:42,480 --> 00:02:46,760 compulsions end up worsening the obsessions long term. 49 00:02:46,920 --> 00:02:50,320 When it comes. To both OCD and eating disorders 50 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:55,480 and crucial part of treatment is exposure therapy. 51 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:57,560 And also response. Prevention. 52 00:02:57,560 --> 00:03:01,480 So essentially you get exposed to the thing that scares you and 53 00:03:01,480 --> 00:03:04,440 bring up uncomfortable feelings. And you do so without. 54 00:03:04,440 --> 00:03:08,040 Turning to the safety behaviour, one important thing to 55 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:12,720 understand about OCD is that it is not OCD unless it is actually 56 00:03:12,720 --> 00:03:15,800 harming you. Many people prefer to keep 57 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,000 things clean around them, for example, but there's a 58 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,760 difference between that and crippling anxiety if you didn't 59 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,080 do the extensive cleaning ritual. 60 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:31,120 And another thing to be aware of with OCD is that the more 61 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:36,440 stereotypical presentation of it is not necessarily how everyone 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:40,040 with OCD feels and behaves. So when we think about OCD, some 63 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,040 may think about cleanliness, for example, hand washing, touching 64 00:03:43,040 --> 00:03:45,600 the doorknob. And don't get me wrong, these 65 00:03:45,600 --> 00:03:49,720 absolutely are very real and devastating presentations of 66 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:51,720 OCD. But they're just one way it 67 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:57,200 presents another form of OCD that is equally as devastating. 68 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,640 But far less spoken about is what we call. 69 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Pure OCD or pure O? So this stands for primarily 70 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:09,000 Obsessive Obsessive Compulsive Disorder. 71 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:12,800 And again, as the name may suggest here, this means that 72 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,920 this is a form of OCD that is more about the obsession and 73 00:04:16,920 --> 00:04:20,279 less about the compulsion. It's not a set diagnosis, it's 74 00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,560 more just a very valid presentation of OCD. 75 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,000 And even though it's about being more about the obsessions than 76 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:30,320 the compulsions, I would argue that it does also show as 77 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:33,120 compulsions, just more subtly. So this will typically. 78 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,880 Be around mental rumination, around a specific fear that you 79 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:43,400 have and that fear will typically be around a fear of 80 00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:47,400 for example, losing control or harming someone or being a bad 81 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,360 person. And these are not just like 82 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:55,440 normal day-to-day reflections. These are ruminations, excessive 83 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:59,800 ruminations that ends up causing so much harm and the stress to 84 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,360 the person. So some examples of how this may 85 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:07,600 manifest could be someone who has a fear for what if they harm 86 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,200 children? What if they want to do 87 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:11,200 inappropriate things towards children? 88 00:05:11,280 --> 00:05:14,240 And I want to say that this is not someone who actually has 89 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,320 inappropriate thoughts and urges around children. 90 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:18,320 They're just so terrified that they do. 91 00:05:18,560 --> 00:05:20,920 And they're not someone who typically would be the person 92 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:23,000 who would be likely to harm a child. 93 00:05:23,200 --> 00:05:25,040 Quite the opposite. It is something that goes. 94 00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:28,880 So against their moral compass and values that they are just 95 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,520 terrified about what if and it's. 96 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,640 So taboo I actually saw someone. Speak about their experiences 97 00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:40,640 with that specific type of pure O around the fear of being 98 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,440 inappropriate around children. To a point where even them 99 00:05:43,440 --> 00:05:46,080 talking about. It was enough for them to get 100 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,800 blacklash because they were people were saying well, if you 101 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:50,640 even think. About that that. 102 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,640 Means that there is something wrong with you and you maybe 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:55,320 have those surges, which of course is the last thing that 104 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:57,920 person needed to hear. And it's just not true. 105 00:05:58,080 --> 00:06:01,000 Anyone who works with OCD know that that's just not how it 106 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:04,120 works at all. Other ways that this may 107 00:06:04,120 --> 00:06:05,920 manifest. Again, I'm just throwing out 108 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,200 some random examples here, but another one could be a straight 109 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,680 person being terrified that they're secretly gay and 110 00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:16,960 deceiving their partner, or a gay person being terrified that 111 00:06:16,960 --> 00:06:19,320 they are secretly straight and deceiving their partner. 112 00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:22,280 And again, many people may have these thoughts at a time. 113 00:06:22,280 --> 00:06:25,160 For example, questioning your sexuality is a pretty normal 114 00:06:25,160 --> 00:06:27,480 standard thing that a lot of people do in their life. 115 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:31,960 But the what makes it something like pure O is when it's not 116 00:06:31,960 --> 00:06:34,520 about just questioning and healthy self reflection. 117 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,960 It is an obsessive, ritualistic behaviour that completely. 118 00:06:37,960 --> 00:06:40,240 Ruins your. Relationship with other people 119 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:42,080 or yourself and your day-to-day functioning. 120 00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:46,160 So for example, the person who is having this fear around being 121 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:49,200 inappropriate or harming children may be so scared of 122 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:53,080 going out side and passing like a kindergarten or even being 123 00:06:53,080 --> 00:06:56,480 around family members and they may just self load themselves 124 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,480 and be like, Oh yeah, but what if I do have these urges and 125 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,360 would do something inappropriate? 126 00:07:01,560 --> 00:07:03,200 They may have an. Incredibly unhealthy 127 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,040 relationship with themselves as well and they just struggle to 128 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,520 making friends because what if friends figure out this bad 129 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:11,160 secret about me that is not even there, right? 130 00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,680 Or the person who is terrified about their sexuality being 131 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,760 different than what they think they are may sabotage their 132 00:07:16,760 --> 00:07:20,040 relationships. Or spend hours and hours online 133 00:07:20,040 --> 00:07:22,640 reading science that I'm gay or science that I'm straight. 134 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:26,400 Other example of how this behaviour manifest can be around 135 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:29,160 fear that you are secretly losing your mind. 136 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,280 Fear that you are developing schizophrenia and then you're 137 00:07:32,280 --> 00:07:35,880 researching the ends of the earth of the Internet about what 138 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:39,480 are some early symptoms of developing that you constantly 139 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:42,880 body check like wait, was I being a little bit psychotic? 140 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:45,880 There. So when it comes to pure OA, 141 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:50,400 more commonly known historical manifestation of the behaviour 142 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:54,680 is actually around religion. We tend to call this moral 143 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,200 scrumptulosity. Scrumptulosity. 144 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:02,240 God, I can never say that word. Essentially moral OCD is often 145 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:05,160 the word used for it and that is more around. 146 00:08:05,600 --> 00:08:09,440 Going to hell or breaking a rule or God watching you and just 147 00:08:09,440 --> 00:08:13,080 being terrified of doing something that goes against your 148 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,360 religion. And again, there are plenty of 149 00:08:15,360 --> 00:08:18,480 religious people that have concerns around going to hell or 150 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:21,960 not living in alignment with their book of religion. 151 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:27,520 That is OK. Again, it becomes OCD when it is 152 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:31,360 just so all consuming that it starts to really control your 153 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:33,280 life and 'cause you significant distress. 154 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,600 And another way that I. Increasingly see it manifesting 155 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:38,600 is. Around. 156 00:08:38,679 --> 00:08:43,559 Moral scrumptulosity around politics right around What if I 157 00:08:43,559 --> 00:08:47,600 say something inappropriate or politically uncorrect? 158 00:08:47,880 --> 00:08:51,560 Again, some degree of that anxiety is normal, especially if 159 00:08:51,560 --> 00:08:54,640 you're navigating certain online political spaces. 160 00:08:55,000 --> 00:08:58,320 But with moral OCD, it will be completely all consuming. 161 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,440 You're terrified, like you can't engage, you can't be in social 162 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,280 environments, you can't go to work and you spent hours and 163 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:06,960 hours trying to. Ruminate and rectify this 164 00:09:06,960 --> 00:09:09,400 perceived moral damage that you've been doing. 165 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:12,880 So yeah, that is some. Examples of pure O and I just 166 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,960 wanted to mention that because I don't feel like often is spoken 167 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,640 about, but I. See it happening a lot and I 168 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:22,240 even seen like potentially a slight increase and I think that 169 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:25,040 it just has to do with. Cultural, societal changes. 170 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,640 The brain is going to find something to latch onto. 171 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:33,480 So lastly, I want to briefly introduce a specific 172 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:39,000 manifestation of OCD or, but not necessarily OCD. 173 00:09:39,000 --> 00:09:40,600 It's kind of borderline in terms of. 174 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:44,240 Whether or not you would. Categorise it as OCD, but it is 175 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:45,840 what I call. OCD. 176 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:49,280 Ed So eating disorder induced OCD. 177 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:55,080 This is a specific presentation of obsessions and rituals that 178 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:58,000 tend to happen to people with restrictive eating disorders. 179 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:02,240 And these rituals don't necessarily have to do with 180 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,480 calorie restriction or weight loss. 181 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:06,560 A lot of times it. Could be completely random. 182 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:10,000 Things like needing to do things in a certain order, or needing 183 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:12,520 to do things in a certain numerical pattern. 184 00:10:12,760 --> 00:10:17,040 So for example only being able. To eat at a certain time, or not 185 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:20,800 being able to have certain foods together or certain foods 186 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:25,440 needing to match each other in one way or another, or not 187 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:28,920 having food touching or a presentation that I experienced 188 00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:32,280 myself during my own anorexia, which is actually surprisingly 189 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,520 common, and that is number OCD in eating disorders. 190 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:40,880 So for example I had to do everything in even numbers 191 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:47,600 SO246. 8 So for example. I could only have two or four 192 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,600 servings of peanut butter, but I couldn't have 3. 193 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:55,280 And you may wonder what is the difference between an eating 194 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:58,000 disorder behaviour? And more like an OCDED 195 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,760 behaviour. And the answer is. 196 00:10:59,920 --> 00:11:03,760 There isn't a clear distinction here, but I do personally tend 197 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:06,040 to see it more as. OCDE. 198 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,200 D rather than just purely restricted behaviour when the 199 00:11:09,200 --> 00:11:13,320 underlying motivation isn't necessarily to cut down calories 200 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:16,600 or to lose weight. So for example, in the number of 201 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:20,600 CD that I mentioned, I would rather have 4 tablespoons of 202 00:11:20,600 --> 00:11:23,520 peanut butter than three, because 4 was a better number 203 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:25,160 for me. Was a more correct number in 204 00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:27,800 some way, but that means more calories. 205 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:30,480 So that's just how I personally just. 206 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,200 Make a distinction. But again, this is just my way 207 00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:35,920 of seeing it. This is not clear set science 208 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:37,840 that everyone in the field agree on. 209 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:40,320 But I have noticed that. There are a lot of. 210 00:11:40,320 --> 00:11:45,040 Eating disorder behaviours that don't necessarily equate. 211 00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:48,520 To. Weight loss or restriction per 212 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,400 SE. Sometimes it actually is more 213 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,520 the opposite and when it comes to. 214 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:55,240 OCDED. Which by the way, is not a 215 00:11:55,240 --> 00:11:58,640 diagnosis, it's not really a agreed upon thing. 216 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:00,680 It is just more. Term that I used to. 217 00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:05,160 Describe a set of rigid obsessions and compulsions that 218 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,120 tend to happen to people eating disorders. 219 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:10,560 It is, interestingly, a behaviour that tends to have a 220 00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:15,240 lot to do with the restriction and undernourishment we see in 221 00:12:15,240 --> 00:12:17,560 eating. Disorders so. 222 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,360 I noticed that this behaviour became a lot better not just 223 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:23,360 through. Actively. 224 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,560 Challenging it, but also just through eating more and 225 00:12:26,560 --> 00:12:30,400 restoring weights. An undernourished brain is. 226 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,600 A rigid brain. We see this from several 227 00:12:33,600 --> 00:12:36,120 studies, for example the Minnesota Starvation Study, 228 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,560 which if you aren't familiar. With I would recommend the 229 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:41,920 Polkas episode I've. Done titled The Minnesota 230 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:44,240 Starvation Study, where I talk about that study and why it's so 231 00:12:44,240 --> 00:12:46,920 important. Essentially when you are 232 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:48,960 restricting. And when you are under your 233 00:12:48,960 --> 00:12:51,160 setpoint weight. When you are in that energetic 234 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,320 deficit, something just shifts in the brain, especially when 235 00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:57,360 this restriction is. Prolonged and severe. 236 00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:00,240 It doesn't necessarily happen because someone missed breakfast 237 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:02,440 one day, even though, interestingly enough, in people 238 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,040 with restrictive eating disorders, sometimes very small 239 00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:08,640 bits of restriction can set off a bit of a rigidity response. 240 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,000 And that's just. Classical for OCDED. 241 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:14,680 It's something that happens during the eating disorder. 242 00:13:14,680 --> 00:13:17,800 And goes away with recovery, and this is different for. 243 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:22,960 Other OCD's SO OCD in general absolutely can be made worse by 244 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:26,560 restriction, even non. Eating disorder types of OCD. 245 00:13:26,800 --> 00:13:29,320 But it won't necessarily. Always go away by. 246 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,760 Recovery. I have seen several people who 247 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:35,040 have an unrelated OCD, for example around hand cleaning, 248 00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:38,560 who find that recovery and being recovered actually improves that 249 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,080 OCD. But it is a little bit different 250 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:43,480 because that behaviour doesn't necessarily have to do with 251 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:45,600 malnutrition. But malnutrition, because it 252 00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,640 creates more rigidity and inflexibility, can also make it 253 00:13:48,640 --> 00:13:51,920 worse. OCD and eating disorders have a 254 00:13:51,920 --> 00:13:53,600 huge. Overlap. 255 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,240 So like I already spoke a bit about it can be hard to know 256 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:59,320 what is the OCD, what is my eating disorder, what is more 257 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,000 OCDED, what is just a pure restrictive behaviours doesn't 258 00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:05,360 always matter that much. What matter is. 259 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:06,840 How can you challenge it? How? 260 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:09,360 Can you get better? How can you make productive 261 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,960 changes towards freedom? What I find? 262 00:14:11,960 --> 00:14:16,240 Very interesting about OCD, is that it? 263 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,320 Tends to often Co occur with people with eating disorders. 264 00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:22,880 And there seems to be. A genetic component so for 265 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:26,440 example in genome studies we see that people who have a genetic 266 00:14:26,440 --> 00:14:30,320 predisposition to an eating disorder more specifically tend 267 00:14:30,320 --> 00:14:34,120 to be more anorexia tend to also have a genetic predisposition 268 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:37,840 towards OCD so in families where there is a lot of anorexia we 269 00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:40,360 often tend to see a lot of OCD and if you for. 270 00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:42,160 Example are someone with anorexia. 271 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:43,680 You may. Have a higher chance of. 272 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:47,400 Having a child with OCD, so there seems to be a genetic 273 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,080 component here. So when it comes to how many 274 00:14:50,080 --> 00:14:53,000 people with eating. Disorders also have OCD. 275 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,760 The numbers are all over the place, so I think the lowest 276 00:14:56,760 --> 00:14:59,440 number I found was around. Like 1011. 277 00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,200 Percent and the highest number was something like 75. 278 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:07,760 So what we can conclude is that there is a big overlap, but 279 00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:11,200 exactly how much overlap kind of varies. 280 00:15:11,200 --> 00:15:12,960 I would probably estimate it to be around. 281 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:17,240 Like one in three to 50%. But that's just me making a 282 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:19,880 rough estimate based on my experience working with people 283 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:21,600 eating. Disorders and also just. 284 00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:24,320 From generally looking at the literature, what I find to be 285 00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:26,520 the most common number that they agree on? 286 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:29,240 And I think the reason. Why the numbers are so all over 287 00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:33,000 the place is that it depends on how you quantify OCD. 288 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:38,440 Do you count OCDED? Or does it have to be a clinical 289 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,160 diagnosis of OCD that is unrelated? 290 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:45,600 Does it count just how someone score on like an OCD? 291 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:48,320 Scale or does it? Count on how many people have a 292 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,080 previous diagnosis of it, right, So we can see that there's a 293 00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,200 good. Reason why the numbers are just 294 00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,080 all over the place. In terms of people with OCD, 295 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,880 it's estimated around. 10% have an eating disorder, some numbers 296 00:16:01,880 --> 00:16:03,320 being a bit higher than that as well. 297 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,560 So what is? It about OCD and eating 298 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,600 disorders, especially anorexia, that overlap so much. 299 00:16:09,920 --> 00:16:12,960 I think the traits that predispose someone to. 300 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,440 OCD are also the same traits that predispose someone to 301 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:21,240 eating disorders, cognitive rigidity, inflexibility, 302 00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:25,040 neuroticism, life stressors, perfectionism. 303 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:27,400 We tend to see. These in both conditions. 304 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,000 So some of. These are more environmental, 305 00:16:30,000 --> 00:16:32,480 for example, experiencing stressful situations. 306 00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:34,200 But. Some of them are also more 307 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:37,440 genetic, so certain personality. Traits are actually quite 308 00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:40,480 genetic. If both your parents score very 309 00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:43,120 high in neurotic system, there's a good chance that you will as 310 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:44,960 well. And you can always discuss is 311 00:16:44,960 --> 00:16:48,400 that due to the impact you experience from living in a 312 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,800 household with two parents that are really neurotic? 313 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:53,840 Or is it a genetic trait? And we tend to see that it is a 314 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,120 bit of both. We know this just from twin 315 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:59,480 studies and from studies on people who've been adopted into 316 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:01,600 different families. How much of their genetic 317 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,920 personality traits do they keep? But that is just a little bit 318 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,560 outside of the scope of this episode to discuss. 319 00:17:07,560 --> 00:17:11,240 But we can agree that personality is to some degree. 320 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:14,520 Heritable so is OCD personality then? 321 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:17,040 No, it is not a personality. It just means that having a 322 00:17:17,040 --> 00:17:19,760 certain personality cluster tend to. 323 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:22,079 Predispose people. To certain mental health 324 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,680 conditions. Essentially, someone who's just 325 00:17:24,839 --> 00:17:27,960 really, really chill are less likely to develop an eating 326 00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:31,160 disorder and less likely to develop OCD. 327 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:33,720 But these things aren't. Always set in stone. 328 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,640 I've seen a lot of people who've made actually quite drastic 329 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:38,880 personality changes through recovery. 330 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,960 Like I generally feel like I have increased my setpoint mood 331 00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:46,240 when I think about myself. When I was at my teens, I was 332 00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,680 just quite low mood in general. Like I was just not a very 333 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:53,080 positive, upbeat person. I'm not saying that I'm always 334 00:17:53,080 --> 00:17:57,000 the most positive person, but it's like my setpoint mood has 335 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,440 actually gone up. I'm definitely chiller. 336 00:17:59,440 --> 00:18:01,680 I'll tell you that. But when it comes to. 337 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,240 OCD and personality. It is also important to mention 338 00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:07,840 that. We also have a condition called 339 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:12,880 Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder, and this can be so 340 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,880 confusing because the name is so similar to Obsessive Compulsive 341 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:17,720 Disorder. I think they kind of flopped a 342 00:18:17,720 --> 00:18:20,440 bit when they named that because that is just way too similar for 343 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:21,920 two conditions that are actually. 344 00:18:22,440 --> 00:18:25,520 Even though similarities occur, they are actually different. 345 00:18:25,720 --> 00:18:29,000 Obsessive compulsive personality disorder is. 346 00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,720 A personality disorder characterised by extreme 347 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,400 rigidity, perfectionism to a point where it's very hard to 348 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,920 function people with this personality disorder. 349 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,520 Tend to have this. Extreme adherence to rules. 350 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:48,240 They tend to be very, very rigid, often quite frugal, very 351 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:51,720 tidy, very typical. Like over workers, 352 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:54,520 overachievers. And I know some of you are like, 353 00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:58,440 damn, that is me. And again, it's a personality 354 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:00,640 disorder. You diagnose it as a personality 355 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,240 disorder when these traits are extreme and when it causes. 356 00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,400 Significant impact in functioning across. 357 00:19:07,400 --> 00:19:12,280 Several arenas of your life. I mean, being quite a planner 358 00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:15,160 and liking things a certain way. I mean I can raise my. 359 00:19:15,160 --> 00:19:16,840 Hand on that, but that. Doesn't mean you have a 360 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:18,680 personality disorder in the same. 361 00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:22,280 Way that a person being a bit more self centred doesn't mean 362 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:25,560 that they have narcissistic personality disorder or someone. 363 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:29,080 Being a bit more. Sensitive and have a tendency 364 00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:32,480 towards neuroticism doesn't immediately mean that they have 365 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:36,520 borderline personality disorder, but this is a thing and 366 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,360 obsessive compulsive personality disorder. 367 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,120 Also is something that predisposes someone to eating 368 00:19:42,120 --> 00:19:44,320 disorders, especially anorexia nervosa. 369 00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,240 When it comes to bulimia nervosa and binge eating disorder, we 370 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:50,520 tend to see a bit more correlation with borderline 371 00:19:50,520 --> 00:19:53,600 personality disorder, but I've observed a lot of borderline 372 00:19:53,600 --> 00:19:55,840 personality disorder in anorexia as well. 373 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:58,320 So I would say borderline personality disorders, we tend 374 00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,040 to just see a lot of eating disorders in general in that. 375 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:05,120 Specific personality disorder, but again, just like OCD. 376 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:07,000 Becomes a mental health disorder. 377 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,280 When it is so extreme that it starts to just take over someone 378 00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:12,720 someone's life. Obsessive compulsive 379 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,880 personality. Disorder, it's a personality 380 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,560 disorder. Once you struggle to really just 381 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,760 function or you may function, but there is impairment in that 382 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,840 functioning when you look beyond the surface level. 383 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:25,640 So for example, even though someone with Obsessive 384 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:28,640 compulsive personality disorder, AKAOC. 385 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:32,840 PD may be performing really hard at work or in studies. 386 00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:36,000 They may find that that they have such a hard time 387 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:39,040 collaborating with other people and like doing some kind of 388 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,640 teamwork or allocating a. Task to a colleague. 389 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:45,400 Because they get so nitpicky. That they may get fired from 390 00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:48,200 their job, so typically their colleagues may start to deliver 391 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:50,360 complaints. Because they constantly feel 392 00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:53,560 picked at. Or judged or criticised. 393 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:59,440 Or the person may do well at school but they are spending so 394 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:03,240 much time writing their essay and they can never get it 395 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:05,680 finished so they end up not delivering the essay in there 396 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:09,400 for struggling at school or. They may just be constantly. 397 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,120 Picking out their partner, everything their partner is 398 00:21:12,120 --> 00:21:15,800 doing, it's never good enough. They can't be around people 399 00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,880 because they're constantly scanning themselves for saying 400 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,720 something inappropriate. So in social situations they may 401 00:21:21,720 --> 00:21:25,640 feel quite stiff and unnatural and they constantly like watch 402 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:27,880 like a guard over what everyone else is saying. 403 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,840 Did that person say something inappropriate? 404 00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,720 Is that person bad? And again, some of these. 405 00:21:32,720 --> 00:21:36,200 Traits are also traits we may see in something like autism. 406 00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,920 Or another personality disorders, or in social anxiety 407 00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:41,000 disorder. Or just personality. 408 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,840 But again, this is just a cluster of behaviours that can 409 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,000 be categorised as a personality disorder. 410 00:21:46,440 --> 00:21:49,120 This of course is a bit more rare, but I thought I'd mention 411 00:21:49,120 --> 00:21:52,360 it because again, there is a bit of a link between eating 412 00:21:52,360 --> 00:21:55,000 disorders and this specific personality disorder. 413 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,400 And there definitely is a link between eating. 414 00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:02,960 Disorders and this personality tendencies without it being a 415 00:22:03,080 --> 00:22:05,200 personality disorder. And I also think that. 416 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:09,360 This specific personality disorder is more represented in 417 00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:12,120 certain religious and political groups. 418 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:15,280 This is not to say that being passionate about politics and 419 00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:19,360 religion and social justice is in any way bad or a personality. 420 00:22:19,360 --> 00:22:22,360 Disorder, of course. Not, but it is that pattern of 421 00:22:22,360 --> 00:22:26,560 like inability to cooperate, inflexibility, constantly 422 00:22:26,560 --> 00:22:31,200 nitpicking and doing so across several arenas of life that is 423 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:32,480 when it becomes quite problematic. 424 00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:35,040 A big difference. Between OCD, Obsessive 425 00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:38,400 compulsive disorder and obsessive compulsive personality 426 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:43,520 disorder is that OCD is what we call a ego. 427 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,840 Dystonic condition. Whilst OCPD is ego syntonic, let 428 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:52,040 me explain that. Ego dystonic means. 429 00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:56,120 That it is something that goes against the person's values. 430 00:22:56,480 --> 00:23:00,120 Person know they have a problem, they want to get better and stop 431 00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:02,720 it. So a person with OCD, they will 432 00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:05,160 typically be. Very distressed over the fact 433 00:23:05,160 --> 00:23:09,000 that they have OCD and often go to great lengths financially 434 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,000 personally to get. Rid of their OCD. 435 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,720 But. With OCPD which is ego. 436 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:19,280 Syntonic, the person will typically don't think they have 437 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,400 a problem, they'll typically just think that they are the 438 00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,720 ones who got it right, like their. 439 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,040 Colleagues are just lazy. Nobody. 440 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:29,920 Else gets it, the other people who are not as passionate about 441 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,680 my religious or political 'cause. 442 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:35,440 They are just immoral or misinformed. 443 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:39,920 Or sleep I get. Something that nobody else gets. 444 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,720 I'm good, other people are bad. I do it right, other people do 445 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:45,920 it wrong. So why would I change? 446 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:50,160 Of course, there are some people with OCPD that do want to 447 00:23:50,160 --> 00:23:51,760 change. And have more self insight. 448 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,400 But typically. There is. 449 00:23:54,480 --> 00:23:57,480 That's typically the difference. What we tend to say that when a 450 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,120 condition is ego syntonic it goes with someone's ego and with 451 00:24:01,120 --> 00:24:03,800 someone's values, whilst when it's ego dystonic it goes 452 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,400 against the value and ego. And this is interesting. 453 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:08,920 In the context of eating. Disorders because eating 454 00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:13,040 disorders are often considered ego syntonic. 455 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,040 So it's considered that an eating. 456 00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:19,200 Disorder is part of a person's ego and that they don't want to 457 00:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,400 change because they see it as a good thing. 458 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,800 Especially this goes with anorexia. 459 00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:25,840 I think about how a lot of. Professionals talk about 460 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,840 anorexia. They talk about it as someone 461 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:30,560 who doesn't know they have a problem and doesn't want to 462 00:24:30,560 --> 00:24:32,800 change. And don't get me wrong, that 463 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:36,560 absolutely does happen, but. Very often, people. 464 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,760 With anorexia, they do know to some degree that they have a 465 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,640 problem, even though they may be trying to rationalise and 466 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,080 minimise it, and even though they often are very ambivalent 467 00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,880 many. Do want to get better, and many 468 00:24:49,120 --> 00:24:51,160 kind of hate that they have an eating disorder. 469 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,680 They often do want to change. At least part of them do. 470 00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:58,720 But they are very scared about all of the anxiety and the 471 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:01,880 stress that occurs with recovery, and This is why I 472 00:25:01,880 --> 00:25:03,840 believe it's a bit more similar to OCD. 473 00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:06,880 Because typically a person with. OCD is not like oh. 474 00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:10,360 Yeah, I just. Love having to constantly check 475 00:25:10,360 --> 00:25:13,720 whether I lock the door or not. Most of the times they hate that 476 00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:17,760 behaviour, but they know that if they don't do the thing, it's 477 00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,920 going to create so much anxiety that it feels so much. 478 00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:22,720 Easier to just oh, I'm. Just going to do the thing. 479 00:25:22,720 --> 00:25:23,960 I know it's going to make me feel better. 480 00:25:23,960 --> 00:25:26,720 I'm going to sleep so much. Better if I just do the rituals. 481 00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:28,960 And this is the same with eating disorders, right? 482 00:25:28,960 --> 00:25:32,400 It's that it feels so tempting, like, oh, if I just purge now 483 00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:35,520 after I binged, it's going to make me feel so much better. 484 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:39,120 What's the problem, right? But here's the thing, those 485 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:42,480 sneaky little behaviours that you're engaging in is what keeps 486 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:44,640 you stuck. And there's really no way to 487 00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,400 recover unless you beat those behaviours. 488 00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,000 And I think this is kind of good news to realise because this 489 00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,480 also makes it easier to understand what the solution is. 490 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,560 So imagine you're constantly obsessing about should I walk in 491 00:25:57,560 --> 00:25:59,400 recovery? How much walking should I do? 492 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:01,600 When should I do it? Maybe you're asking your 493 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,600 treatment professionals how much walking can I do? 494 00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,800 And they're like. 30 minutes is fine. 495 00:26:06,240 --> 00:26:10,520 But here's the thing, if that behaviour is a ritual and a 496 00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,800 safety behaviour, you can't just be like, oh, I'm just not going 497 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:15,440 to work on that. I'm I'm just going to do, I'm 498 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:17,800 just going to walk. Then let me just give another 499 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,280 example to clarify a bit what I mean here in that in case that 500 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,360 was a bit confusing. If I'm walking somewhere, me 501 00:26:23,360 --> 00:26:26,160 checking the map to see like, oh, what am I going to pass on? 502 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,800 This walk is completely fine and harmless. 503 00:26:29,000 --> 00:26:32,640 But if I'm terrified that I'm going to walk past a school, for 504 00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,200 example, because I'm scared, what if I get an urge to harm 505 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,800 children? Doing that behaviour represents 506 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,800 something very differently, so it's not. 507 00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,440 About the behaviour being good. Or bad on. 508 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,200 Universal terms it is about. Is that behaviour? 509 00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:47,920 Representing something else for you. 510 00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:51,040 For you, is that behaviour a safety behaviour? 511 00:26:51,120 --> 00:26:53,960 So for example, someone checking that they're not going to pass a 512 00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:56,680 school because they're scared. What if I get an urge to go and 513 00:26:56,680 --> 00:26:59,280 harm children there? In the same way. 514 00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:02,680 One person with an eating disorder may not have any issues 515 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,840 with compulsive walking and they may be in a physical space where 516 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:09,520 walking is completely fine. For that person, going for an 517 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:12,400 afternoon walk to clear their head when they're stressed can 518 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:14,640 be a good thing, can be a recovery promoting thing. 519 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,680 But for a person where walking is part of a compulsion, 520 00:27:19,240 --> 00:27:23,400 something that they're doing to deal with guilt around food or a 521 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,360 rule that they have to follow that they have to walk 30 522 00:27:26,360 --> 00:27:29,200 minutes a day, then it is suddenly not so innocent 523 00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,320 anymore. And I think once you make that 524 00:27:31,320 --> 00:27:34,560 reframe of not necessarily having to view your eating 525 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:39,480 disorder as like a form of OCD, but at least viewing the urges 526 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,600 and rituals as something to target in the same way that you 527 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,640 would if you had OCD can be very helpful. 528 00:27:46,960 --> 00:27:52,240 Go where there is anxiety and go where there is resistance and I 529 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,240 think this is something. That a lot of traditional 530 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,680 treatment get wrong and please. Don't misunderstand me here. 531 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:01,360 I am by no means suggesting that if your. 532 00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:04,640 Treatment system gets this wrong that it is not worth going to 533 00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:06,360 treatment. I know that sounds really 534 00:28:06,360 --> 00:28:09,600 obvious probably to most of you, but I've seen a bit of a 535 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,360 tendency sometimes in recovery spaces where there is a 536 00:28:13,360 --> 00:28:16,120 suggestion that if your treatment system doesn't 537 00:28:16,120 --> 00:28:19,360 completely get it, then it is better just not to do any kind 538 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,080 of treatment. And don't get me wrong, there 539 00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:23,960 are some people who do better just doing recovery on their own 540 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,160 in their own way. That's completely fine if it 541 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:28,000 works for you and if you can do that safely. 542 00:28:28,160 --> 00:28:31,440 But I've just seen one too many cases of people who just end up 543 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,480 just doing nothing and being quite unsafe. 544 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:39,440 But still, I have to point out pitfalls where I believe it is 545 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:41,080 due. And one thing I can see in 546 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,560 traditional treatment is that there will be a cookie cookie 547 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:45,840 cutter approach. Where will be for example. 548 00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,800 You can walk 30 minutes a day, bam, without investigating what 549 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:51,760 does that behaviour mean for that person? 550 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,720 Because one person's safety behaviour is another person's 551 00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:57,880 fear behaviour. For one person, drinking 552 00:28:57,880 --> 00:29:01,800 nutritional drinks could be a massive recovery, win, fear food 553 00:29:01,800 --> 00:29:05,200 challenge, you name it was. For another people, those drinks 554 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,800 are a safe food. So I think it's so important 555 00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:12,760 especially when you get out of that more acute just stabilising 556 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,160 face where you kind of can't think that much about free food 557 00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:17,280 challenges when you. Get. 558 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,920 Out of into that more like active recovery state. 559 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,800 It is so important to be very individualised and think what 560 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,560 are my fears, what are my safety behaviours and then challenge 561 00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:29,480 accordingly rather than just following a list of this is what 562 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,480 people with eating disorder. Are scared of. 563 00:29:31,760 --> 00:29:34,120 This is what you can and can't do in treatment because that 564 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:37,440 should be slightly adjusted and made individualised. 565 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,960 At least that is how I operate with clients. 566 00:29:40,520 --> 00:29:43,160 You wouldn't believe how many times I will have two clients 567 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,360 right after each other. One person talks about a safety 568 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,440 behaviour, a comfort behaviour and then the next client talk 569 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:51,320 about that behaviour being a massive fear. 570 00:29:51,640 --> 00:29:54,680 So go where the fear is and challenge that fear 571 00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:57,760 consistently. Some people prefer to do those 572 00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:00,440 challenges gradually, other people prefer to more. 573 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,240 Just go for it. There is no wrong or right way, 574 00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,280 as long as it takes you forward. I've spoken a bit about this in 575 00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,840 my episode on All In, where I talk about the pros and cons, 576 00:30:09,840 --> 00:30:13,960 the good, the bad, the ugly of All In, so that may be helpful 577 00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,400 for someone who are unsure about how to actually start. 578 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,880 Challenging things like should I just. 579 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,640 Go for it. Or do I do a bit more planned 580 00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:24,840 and steady and kind of, yeah, schedule it out in some ways? 581 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:26,720 Different strokes for different folks. 582 00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:29,960 As long as you're doing. Some form of exposure therapy 583 00:30:29,960 --> 00:30:33,600 and some kind of response. Prevention and ideally doing 584 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,960 that with a professional that is aware of this and can help you 585 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,200 target. And someone who sees you in your 586 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,160 unique situation. Rather than just being like bam 587 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:45,520 eating disorder, you think and feel this way. 588 00:30:45,520 --> 00:30:48,360 End of story. Because yes, there are a lot of 589 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,400 similarities. Eating disorders aren't that. 590 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,560 Creative, I'll tell you that. But. 591 00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:56,320 The behaviours, even though they often have an underlying driver, 592 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,080 can sometimes be a little bit different from person to person, 593 00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,840 SO speaking. Of behaviours. 594 00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:06,320 What are some other examples of sneaky kind of? 595 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:10,680 OCDED. Like behaviours that may not be 596 00:31:10,680 --> 00:31:15,920 directly related to weight loss or wanting to eat less calories 597 00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,360 but still Co occur. Some of these behaviours, some 598 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:24,160 people may argue fall under the OCD Ed category, others not. 599 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:26,640 But I still want to mention some of these behaviours because I 600 00:31:26,640 --> 00:31:30,040 see them a lot and I just want to kind of, yeah, just bring 601 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,960 them to light because I feel like some of these aren't spoken 602 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:35,120 about as often as I believe they should be. 603 00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:41,280 So one of those behaviours that I see over and over and over and 604 00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:47,320 over again is some form of rumination, and that rumination 605 00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:50,480 translating into research behaviours. 606 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:57,240 For example, someone being really obsessed about their gut 607 00:31:57,240 --> 00:31:59,320 health. And don't get me wrong, gut 608 00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:02,520 health is important, but typically these people will be 609 00:32:02,520 --> 00:32:05,680 obsessed with finding evidence. As to why they should keep 610 00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,600 engaging in restrictive behaviours and cutting out food. 611 00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,440 Rather than solving the underlying. 612 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:14,280 Issue which is an energy deprived digestive system, an 613 00:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,360 excessive amount of stress dysregulated nervous system. 614 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,520 Creating digestive issues. But instead, they will spend 615 00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,680 hours and hours and hours researching what foods are good 616 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:27,320 for their gut. What can they cut out? 617 00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:31,440 Some of these people may be down to eating only a few foods and 618 00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:38,920 unfortunately some professionals typically more neuropaths. 619 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,960 Tend to prey on these people. Again, not saying all neuropaths 620 00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:45,000 do that, but I'm saying that I've seen a lot of people. 621 00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,440 Going and find getting a list of several pages of foods that they 622 00:32:49,440 --> 00:32:52,200 can't eat and their eating disorder clearly has not been 623 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:53,720 considered. The fact that they have a 624 00:32:53,720 --> 00:32:56,440 suppressed energy suppressed digestive system haven't been 625 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,040 considered. The fact that they have a lot of 626 00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:04,440 anxiety hasn't been considered. So people with this kind of 627 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:09,960 obsessive compulsive, yeah. Focus around digestion may 628 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:12,800 constantly be monitoring how many bowel movements they're 629 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:14,440 having. They may be like pressing their 630 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,320 stomach to feel like see if they can feel something. 631 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:19,440 Constantly checking how bloated they are. 632 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:23,640 Constantly like eating depending on their bowel functions. 633 00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:27,400 Constantly looking for more foods to add or no not really 634 00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:29,600 add. Take away would be more the the 635 00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,800 common 1 here excessively spending on supplements 636 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,080 excessively. Spending on medical appointments 637 00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,480 but just not getting anywhere. They're just getting worse. 638 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:39,640 Researching, researching, researching. 639 00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,800 They know everything. They can memorise every low 640 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,040 FODMAP food in their heads and they're just. 641 00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:47,720 So hyper vigilant. To any kind of internal cues, 642 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,400 because there is. Heightened anxiety. 643 00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:51,840 They feel things. So for example, most people may 644 00:33:51,840 --> 00:33:54,720 not feel that they were a little bit low to that day, but this 645 00:33:54,720 --> 00:33:58,880 person will obsessively monitor it and they may misuse certain 646 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,840 medications as a result. And that's just the number one 647 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:03,720 focus. If they haven't, for example, 648 00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:06,400 had a bowel movement, they they have a bad day, right? 649 00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,639 This is not normal. This is not being held 650 00:34:08,639 --> 00:34:12,679 conscious, this is not healthy. I'm just saying that because 651 00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:16,199 I've seen a lot of people not realising that spending 90% of 652 00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,800 your time thinking about your digestion is actually not 653 00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,000 normal. Again, I understand there is 654 00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:23,679 complexities here. I understand there are people 655 00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:26,280 with certain chronic health conditions, but I'm more talking 656 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,760 about a specific type. Of obsessive compulsive 657 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,280 manifestation here. Also this behaviour can Co 658 00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:35,239 occur. With chronic health conditions, 659 00:34:35,239 --> 00:34:38,480 and it often does for very understandable reasons, I would 660 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:41,040 probably classify some of this. Under health anxiety, health 661 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,000 anxiety can in some ways be seen as a form of OCD because the 662 00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:47,960 person will typically ruminate and engage in a lot of 663 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,159 compulsions around researching and self monitoring their 664 00:34:51,159 --> 00:34:53,199 bodies. So that's one that I wanted to 665 00:34:53,199 --> 00:34:55,280 mention because I feel like that one is not mentioned enough. 666 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,320 So other more sneaky food behaviours could be around 667 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:02,360 obsession around. Food being contaminated or 668 00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:05,240 expired. I had elements of this. 669 00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:07,640 I was scared of my food being poisoned. 670 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:11,960 I was scared of the waiter giving me regular soda instead 671 00:35:11,960 --> 00:35:14,920 of Diet Coke. And this can also overlap a bit 672 00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,440 with emetophobia. So the fear of throwing up, the 673 00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,400 fear of eating something that will upset your stomach and that 674 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,040 can also be something where we have that excessive self 675 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:26,560 monitoring and rumination. For example, researching what 676 00:35:26,560 --> 00:35:28,680 foods are more likely. To get me food poisoned. 677 00:35:28,960 --> 00:35:30,680 Constantly trying to see am I nauseous? 678 00:35:30,680 --> 00:35:31,880 Am I nauseous? Am I nauseous? 679 00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:33,640 Which of course that makes you more nauseous. 680 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,000 And it's a self fulfilling cycle. 681 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,000 Another one that deserves a bit of an honourable. 682 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:42,320 Mention. Is moral scrupulosity around 683 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,640 eating the perfect diet in terms of ethics? 684 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:49,840 Oof, this is a tricky one right? Because it can be hard to tell. 685 00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,320 Like is this just something that is really important for me as a? 686 00:35:52,320 --> 00:35:55,560 Person to eat this way. Or is this my eating? 687 00:35:55,560 --> 00:36:00,640 Disorder or is this a productive thing that helps me in life or 688 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,680 is it not? Oh, is this it? 689 00:36:03,040 --> 00:36:07,320 Because heightened moral concern is definitely something that I 690 00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:08,880 often see in people with eating. Disorders. 691 00:36:09,040 --> 00:36:10,400 But what's interesting is that sometimes. 692 00:36:10,400 --> 00:36:13,480 It's around more around food than other things, even though I 693 00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,240 will also say that a lot of times it is. 694 00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:18,840 Around depriving yourself. As much as humanly possible. 695 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:23,040 So typically someone may they may live a really simple life, 696 00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:25,920 right? They may not buy themselves new 697 00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:27,840 things, but they will buy other people things. 698 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:31,720 And I think that is a big red flag is when you kind of to 699 00:36:31,720 --> 00:36:34,400 other people, you treat other people better than you would 700 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,160 treat yourself. So you have no issue buying your 701 00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:40,520 friend some fast fashion, but then with yourself? 702 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,600 Oh, absolutely. Not again, I understand this is 703 00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:46,200 a bit of a sensitive one, because I'm not saying that 704 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:49,160 there aren't problems in the food industry or there aren't. 705 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,240 Problems in the fashion. Industry, etcetera, etcetera. 706 00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:57,080 But typically when it becomes more like a moral scrupulosity 707 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,040 thing is when someone is just obsessing over it and it limits 708 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,280 them, It limits their social functioning. 709 00:37:03,280 --> 00:37:06,000 They spend hours every day planning out their food, 710 00:37:06,000 --> 00:37:08,520 researching what is the most ethical, sustainable way of 711 00:37:08,560 --> 00:37:10,800 eating. They're terrified of accident 712 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,480 eating something that isn't fair trade or vegan or whatsoever. 713 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:18,080 And this can also manifest as more like budget. 714 00:37:18,080 --> 00:37:21,520 Where someone is just are obsessed with keeping a food 715 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,720 budget and the food budget needing to be as low as 716 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,080 possible. But if their friend asked them 717 00:37:27,080 --> 00:37:29,760 oh hey can you buy me a muffin? No problem. 718 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:32,360 But again, it's about depriving themselves, not necessarily 719 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:34,720 other people, even though some people may push these. 720 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:37,240 Behaviours in others as well. I've actually written an article 721 00:37:37,240 --> 00:37:40,840 about this over at letsrecover.substack.com called 722 00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:44,640 Ethical Orthorexia, Veganism and Moral Rigidity and Eating 723 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:48,000 Disorders. And this can also manifest as 724 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:50,600 orthorexia. I would say, again, all of these 725 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,640 things kind of overlap in many ways. 726 00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:57,920 So this may be a person who's just terrified of eating the 727 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,240 wrong thing and quote unquote, becoming unhealthy. 728 00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:03,040 That may be the core fear. And as a result, they're 729 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:05,400 engaging in. All sorts of safety. 730 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,920 Behaviours that they believe will prevent them from dying and 731 00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:11,160 early death. But of course the problem is 732 00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,440 these behaviours just make them more. 733 00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:15,440 Unhealthy, actually. That's the paradox of it. 734 00:38:15,760 --> 00:38:17,640 Same. Thing They may be ruminating 735 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:21,080 endlessly about what they ate, endlessly researching. 736 00:38:21,120 --> 00:38:24,760 They may be looking up evidence as to why they are right. 737 00:38:25,240 --> 00:38:28,320 They may spend a lot of time in certain niche diet communities 738 00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:31,600 to kind of get that confirmation bias or they may watch 739 00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,480 documentaries like My 600 LB Life thinking that if. 740 00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:38,800 I don't do all of these rituals and behaviours, that's going to 741 00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,280 be me so constantly trying to almost reinforce their fears 742 00:38:42,800 --> 00:38:45,360 another little. Obsessive ritual that I 743 00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:47,640 sometimes see in people with eating disorders is body 744 00:38:47,640 --> 00:38:50,080 checking. So essentially trying to control 745 00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,320 your body through just repeatedly checking it. 746 00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:55,640 So it's a bit like the person. Trying to control whether or not 747 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:57,560 someone. 'S breaking in by just checking 748 00:38:57,640 --> 00:38:59,840 if they lock the door over and over and over. 749 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:01,600 So in the same way. People. 750 00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,400 With eating disorders may just think that. 751 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,920 If I just keep. Checking my body, I can prevent 752 00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,480 it from going out of control. I can stop it before it goes out 753 00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,360 of control. Honestly, I could probably have 754 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:15,560 gone. On and on and on about this 755 00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:19,120 because there are so many obsessions leading to 756 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:22,760 compulsions in eating disorders without it necessarily being 757 00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,800 OCD. And I want to make that clear, 758 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:27,760 if you are struggling with some of these behaviours I just 759 00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:29,840 mentioned, it doesn't necessarily mean you have OCD. 760 00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:34,560 But I think if we look at more obsessive compulsive thoughts 761 00:39:34,560 --> 00:39:37,520 and urges and behaviours as an umbrella, we can see that some 762 00:39:37,520 --> 00:39:40,000 of it would fall somewhere under it. 763 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,400 Doesn't necessarily make it OCD, doesn't necessarily make it OCD. 764 00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,760 Ed doesn't necessarily make it obsessive Compulsive Personality 765 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,720 disorder either, but it can be. So it is often said that if you 766 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,520 have OCD and an eating disorder, that can complicate recovery, 767 00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,560 but I actually have to say that that is not necessarily in 768 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,280 alignment with what I have seen in clients. 769 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:09,040 I often find that clients, once they become aware and kind of 770 00:40:09,040 --> 00:40:12,440 understand their eating disorder as a bunch of obsessions and 771 00:40:12,440 --> 00:40:15,160 compulsions that they have to challenge and get rid of through 772 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:18,920 exposure and response prevention, they often tend to 773 00:40:18,920 --> 00:40:21,920 do really, really well. The biggest challenge is often 774 00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:24,960 accepting that you are going to have to be uncomfortable 775 00:40:24,960 --> 00:40:26,760 sometimes. You're going to have to feel a 776 00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:30,280 bit of anxiety sometimes. But one thing I would encourage 777 00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,720 people to be a bit aware of is that it is often rumination that 778 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:37,960 leads to anxiety. And you can't always control 779 00:40:37,960 --> 00:40:40,440 your thoughts, but you can't control whether or not you 780 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:43,680 engage in rumination. In the same way that if I ask 781 00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:46,400 you to solve the math equation and then I. 782 00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:48,160 Ask you to stop it. You can choose to. 783 00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,560 Start and stop that. And that's good news. 784 00:40:50,560 --> 00:40:52,120 And that's. Relieving to hear that. 785 00:40:52,120 --> 00:40:55,000 You're not completely like. Powerless to your. 786 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:57,040 Thoughts When it comes to rumination? 787 00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,400 Rumination is something. You're doing, it's not. 788 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,720 Something that just happens to you? 789 00:41:00,960 --> 00:41:04,080 So it is something where if you become aware in the moment. 790 00:41:04,240 --> 00:41:07,640 You can learn to stop, but your thoughts and feelings, they may 791 00:41:07,640 --> 00:41:11,840 float a bit by and that's OK. Think about the mass clouds on 792 00:41:11,840 --> 00:41:14,520 the sky, right? You see them floating by, you 793 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:17,720 let them pass, but they aren't the sky. 794 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,760 The sky have them. And I understand this is. 795 00:41:20,760 --> 00:41:23,000 Difficult. And this is a skill that people 796 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,040 often have to work on and learn, sometimes in coaching and 797 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:27,880 therapy. I would especially recommend 798 00:41:27,880 --> 00:41:30,760 something like acceptance and commitment therapy for this, or 799 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:33,680 something like exposure and response prevention therapy, 800 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,960 especially if you have obsessive compulsive disorder. 801 00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:39,240 But the good news? And the key takeaway from this 802 00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:42,760 episode is that recovery, whether it is from OCD. 803 00:41:43,160 --> 00:41:47,560 Or an eating disorder, or both is very much a possibility. 804 00:41:48,240 --> 00:41:51,480 These are conditions that can respond very well to treatment, 805 00:41:51,840 --> 00:41:55,080 especially OCD. Perhaps because OCD people with 806 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,000 OCD tend to be a bit more motivated to recover than people 807 00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,360 with eating. Disorders, because again, it 808 00:42:00,360 --> 00:42:01,680 goes. Back to what I spoke about with 809 00:42:01,680 --> 00:42:05,400 things being ego dystonic or ego syntonic, people with eating 810 00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,960 disorders may have some difficulty with recovery because 811 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:10,760 they want to hold on to their eating disorder. 812 00:42:10,760 --> 00:42:12,760 They feel like they get something out of it in terms of 813 00:42:12,760 --> 00:42:16,600 their identity and purpose, whilst people with OCD, they 814 00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:18,760 tend to often get less out of it. 815 00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,440 I would say though, that once you're fully recovered from an 816 00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:23,800 eating disorder, you would realise just how little you 817 00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,880 actually did get out of it. But in the moment, as part of 818 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,120 the illness, it may feel like, Oh, yeah. 819 00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,280 This is great, right. So I want to say that just 820 00:42:32,280 --> 00:42:36,080 hopefully to offer up some hope that recovery absolutely is 821 00:42:36,080 --> 00:42:39,320 possible and both of these conditions can respond very well 822 00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,280 to the correct form of support and treatment approach. 823 00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,240 That approach may be a little bit different for each person, 824 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,600 but in general it requires not doing the safety behaviours. 825 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,360 All right guys, I hope you enjoyed this. 826 00:42:52,360 --> 00:42:57,280 Episode if you didn't feel. Free to leave a rating or share 827 00:42:57,280 --> 00:42:58,600 with a friend. So you can. 828 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:02,080 Find me at my website letsrecover.co.uk where I offer 829 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:04,760 one-on-one coaching and I also offer group coaching. 830 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,920 I hope to have another round of group coaching starting later 831 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:12,520 this year, 2025, so if you're interested in Group coaching, 832 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,440 please do sign up on my website to get notified when I have 833 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,000 spaces available. You don't have to join just 834 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:21,720 because you signed up to get notified like it is, no strings 835 00:43:21,720 --> 00:43:25,040 attached, but it just kind of helps me see how many people are 836 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:27,480 interested because of course, if there's a lot of interest very 837 00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:29,040 soon, then I might do it a bit sooner. 838 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,200 All right, guys, I hope you have a lovely start of the year and I 839 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:34,640 will see you. Guys in the next episode.