Hello everyone, welcome to the BCCI podcast.
We recorded this episode with Sharda, Emer and Asam Bhai on
the opening day of the T20 World Cup.
Since then, a few things have changed.
We've added short voice notes from the three of them right at
the start to catch you up. The bigger conversation still
remains the same. The sport feels a bit broken
right now. There are definitely less or
very little born homie between everyday fans across the
support. This podcast is just our small
way of keeping the conversation going and keeping that dialogue
alive. If you have press play, we
appreciate the commitment on to the episode.
Now Ek to PCB chairman, neh interior minister or state at
large Khaliya kafi favour kya to report.
Why concessions as a result of reversing the boycott Unmengui
SE cheese nahi hai, Just say Pakistan cricket could directly
find the whole. But of course on a diplomatic
level it does give them some points.
I think the juicy cheese Yeheke is boycott threaty.
That has shown that the PCB has some leverage over the ICC and
its broadcast revenues etcetera. And obviously is the far koi.
As I said, we we haven't there haven't been any concessions
reported for the Pakistan Cricket Board.
But in the future if there is some kind of conflict or
disagreement etcetera. So there is this threat that the
PCB can use again or at least that leverage is now known to
the BCCI or the ICC etcetera. So that might impact the future
going forward. No matter how this is spun by
the narrative control centre that is that worlds around, that
centres itself around the power brokers in Indian cricket, this
is pushed back by two countries that don't belong to the big
three. This is also demonstration of
the fact of the very obvious fact that if you're going to try
and drum up this TomTom, this your circus, the way you do, the
way the ICC does, the way the Indian cricket broadcasters do
about or I assume Pakistani cricket broadcasters do.
I'm, I'm unaware of the, the big rivalry that you have all the
time. This shows you the, this is the
most obvious thing that for this rivalry, you need 2 teams to
play. You need there to be a
respectful acceptance of you, of of you and the adversary, you
and the competition, you and your and your opposition.
You know, it's just that this is the, this is the, this, this is
the thing that has been again, been highlighted in a manner
that everybody in cricket will notice that it's happened
because it's not, it has not happened for the past, I don't
know, decade plus. We're hearing stories about it
every whatever everyone says about the role of politics in
cricket should not be there. That's a bit that's a bit late
in the day, but I think it's an important thing to note and also
maybe for the ICC to look at the fact that the way they are, you
know, trying they cook the groups every time.
It's, it's, it's a bit shoddy. It's, it's a bit, it's a bit non
classy, let me say. And they need to rethink how how
they're going to do this. The fact that Bangladesh will
not receive sanctions for having said we are not going to play in
India, it's it to be noted, it's it's unfortunate that they won't
be Bangladesh in this World Cup. We moved on from that now and
Scotland have already had had a game in yesterday.
It'll be sad, but it's been there.
But they won't be punished for this.
They'll get an ICC event for this.
And there were reports in Cricinfo that talked about
taking a look at the redistribution of revenues.
I don't know how that will go because you know, if there's one
thing that the Cricket Australia and ECB want to protect, it's
their, it's their accounts, it's their share of the pie.
But I think this is a, this is a big development.
The reason I think it's an important development is not
because, you know, it'll shake the foundations of how cricket
is run in the world at all or, or, or the power or the hegemony
of of the BCCI on, on the global game and on other smaller member
boards. But it actually shows you how
problems. Could be can be addressed?
I mean this should have. Happened actually maybe 10 days
ago, 15 days ago when this whole when the, when the Bangladesh
situation started to rumble, This is how you you went and you
had a conversation with them. You know, apparently they said
yes, yes, we did have a conversation.
We did have online meetings and all the rest of it, but I would
not I would not the best is coming on out of that, out of
that from narrative control centers, I call it.
But just threats. This will happen.
That will happen. You will not be able to play
bilateral cricket only, you know, that kind of stuff that
was there. So basically it was like dumkey
and you don't deal with your member countries with dumkey.
I mean the that play. So it's interesting that it was
from the ICC. It was Imran Khaja who went to
talk with the PCB and, and the BCB was also there.
Bangladesh Cricket Board people were also there.
And it wasn't either the chairman or the CEO.
And they'll say, OK, we didn't get visas, which is a reasonable
answer, which is reasonable. You know, it's, it's very
possible. But you would want them to be
part of the online meetings, I assume.
You'd want them to be a press conference, I assume.
But there's nothing you know, there's at that end, there is
sort of silence. I think it's a very interesting
development in in, in the wider context of world cricket going
forward. I think the the usual narrative
was in the last say, 10-15 years that BCCI will rule the roost
and everything will be, you know, decided by them and
they'll call the shots. Of course, I think they will
keep calling the shots, but I think PCB has shown that
resistance can come in many forms.
And maybe holding that India Pakistan match ransom was a way
to, you know, deflect a bit of, you know, I mean, just just
showing up to the BCCI or the ICC that, you know, things can
be, the can, can be, can go wrong if you're taking too much
control. So I think on that front, I
mean, however PCB has done it, they have done it.
And yeah, I think it's, it's very smart of them to not take a
lot of things in return for the dispute.
I think the dispute itself was to their favour ultimately.
And I, I feel that what Bangladesh has got, it's not a
lot, but it's the acknowledgement that they would
that they have been craving from the ICC, the attention they got
the ICC attention. And I think the extra ICC event
will be a boost if if it actually pans out that way.
You know, they were supposed to be Co hosts of 2031 World Cup
with India, but 2028, it's likely to be an under 19 World
Cup. So they're getting that.
And the fact that there will not be any strong punishment against
Bangladesh, that is a good sign. But I feel that overall it was
a, it was a win for the PCB in this situation.
And, you know, maybe going forward, this, this sort of mess
is not welcome in world cricket. But from a, from a diplomatic
standpoint or from a, from a situation where one country is
calling all the shots, maybe this is the first time that we
have seen some resistance. So second hundred to be
successive also wonder like, you know, ideologically you should
boycott Pakistan. Like, you know, the, the, the
Taliban has made unpopular decisions because that's what
their ideology states. Lots of people make unpopular
ideological decisions, but you keep playing Pakistan and and
it's not like you love Pakistan. You're not going to shake hands.
You're going to celebrate with a fake trophy and whatever.
So that sort of disappointed by the lack of ideological
adherence that the BJP has shown because both from, you know,
either you could have gone the Arnab way and, and just boycott
everything, blah, blah, blah, or you could have gone the Saudi
way and use this to project your power, even if it goes against
your core ideology. The fact that they've did
nothing, the fact that they've been so unambitious that to me
honestly, like, you know, 2016 Amir could not have predicted
that at all. And and that's been kind of the
whole of Bengal are on their feet.
Not that important. He's gone.
The next ball, the dream is diminished.
For Carlos Brathwaite. All right, so let me take you
back to 2000 and four. 2004 is the year where India tours
Pakistan and it's the same year when Farah Khan released Mehuna.
Mayhuna was about releasing prisoners from either side of
India and Pakistan and the man who eventually made it happen
was Major Ram Prasad Sharma AKA Shahrukh Khan.
Somehow in 2026, if you think about it, everything that's
happening in international cricket around us goes back to
Shahrukh Khan. It's important to share that you
must focus on Shahrukh surname. He's the co-owner of Kolkata
Knight Riders and was asked by the BCCI to remove Mustafizur
Rahman, the Bangladesh cricketer, from his team while
on the same evening Shakib Al Hasan played for Mumbai Indians
franchise in the ILT 20. I don't think Shahrukh can
execute any Project Milap for his beloved game cricket.
But the closest we can is by keeping a line of communication
open between people from all countries.
Exclusion is a Hindutva mechanism, inclusion is a
western concept. To execute this smallest project
MILAP not just between India, Pakistan and Bangladesh and the
rest of the subcontinent, we have with us Sharda Ugra,
Muhammad, Assam and Amar Naqvi joining Richa, Sarthak, Nishant
and I for this blockbuster of a podcast.
So welcome to the pod, Sharda, Isambhai and Amar.
Thank you, thank you, thank you. Thank you so much.
Yeah, but Kabhi Khushi, Kabhi Ghamwala cast like, you know,
all all the big hitters are here, please.
Thank you. Thank you guys for inviting me,
right? So my first even.
That emerge come late, Even that emerge come late is he Shahrukh
Khan because he's come from the chopper.
That's a really good point, but I think only Sharda can be
Sharda. There's that's king for king.
There's. There's no other comparison in
this era. I'm not arguing at all in this
matter, being a person not given to any kind of argument.
Alright then my first question is to Sharda Rajdeep asked on
his channel. Have we become bullies?
Not to reuse this question but it seems to be rejected a lot by
Indian commentators. They say this is the ICC not
BCCI. There was a board vote 14 to 2
and that's why, and our venue was changed months before, not
just within a month. So I ask a question that Richard
has asked on this part previously to quite a few
people. Who does international cricket
exist to serve? Oh, I have to answer the
question you need in theory or in practice.
You can. You can decide to answer in
whatever way you want, you know there.
Was a point in time where the BCCI used to blame everything on
ICC. Now I'm talking back like 10-15
years, KRAICC, Nokia and all that.
And if there was something against, let's say, you know,
players go for a contract you have to sign for ambush
marketing or whatever. And all of us kept saying, look,
all of you are ICC, correct? There is this whole body of
people which includes England, Australia, India, South Africa,
Pakistan, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, New Zealand and West Indies and
you're all ICC. So that's why you're there.
Now this 14 two number that they give is quite comic for the
simple reason that we know why 14 is 14 and why 2 is 2.
You know, it's very, very obvious that the ICC has become
a body that is largely serving the interest of a cricket body,
which is the largest in the in the in the world and is the one
that has the most money and therefore uses that money to
open quotes, bully people, close quotes.
So yeah, that's the answer. That is, have we become the
bullies? It's been a while.
You know, it's been, say, maybe for the last eight years, 10
years, you know, because of the fact when you change the revenue
distribution, you changed everything.
You know, you changed the whole, the whole game in that sense.
Shanti, you wrote a wonderful article today and that we'll
urge all of our readers to go through with some Hindustan
Times. And you wrote about, you know,
the the grandest of all World Cups and how T20 World Cup truly
at least I mean, the 50 World Cup has a legacy been going for
it. But T20 World Cup truly captures
the idea that the World Cup should be for everybody.
And we will, we will this time miss Bangladesh.
Can you talk through the article?
I mean, we have this kind of an abrasive reaction to T20 World
Cup in general. And just can you, can you help
our readers understand the atmosphere that we're trying to
capture, you try to capture in your article?
Thanks. Thank you, Sartik, for your very
kind words. I mean, The thing is that I have
always been a fan of T20 internationals.
I'm not a franchise cricket fan. I understand the model.
I understand why it's successful and how it's important and all
the rest of it. But I love T20 International
because it is an Internet. I mean, I'm used to nation
versus nation cricket. I love it.
And because it's so mad and crazy and everyone says it
shouldn't be held every two years, OK, maybe yes, but it's
it's held every two years. I don't mind because it's
literally gets over within three weeks.
And it's just you get crazy results.
You get all kinds of team doing mad things.
We're seeing what's happened within the space of 12 hours
that Pakistan almost got toppled by Netherlands and I7 down
against 8 download against United States.
You know, so you won't get those kind of mad kind of results if
you're playing, say 50 over cricket or if you're playing
Test cricket and so on. So that's the beauty of it.
That's all the all the all the madness that comes into it.
I'm I'm really happy that there are 20 teams.
And I know that I was forwarded a piece that you had done that
PCI had done on sub stack about this thing of matches being
blows, being blowouts. If you have these more teams.
And that's a great example to say like, you know, just don't
brush everything under one random brush because it suits
something that it suits the purpose that you that, that,
that you want. And the more teams that play
cricket, the better. I mean, and the smaller teams
that come from smaller countries, even more fantastic.
You know, I'm, I'm a great, I'm a big sucker for sports movies
and whatever and that I saw and sort of, you know, videos and
songs and whatever. I really enjoy them.
So the I even wrote in my in the piece that it's for HD that the
this is our year, Karke. There is a feel, the thrill or
something that I don't even know the song, but it's a great song.
It's a great like it's got all this bhangra beat and it's got
everything. Then people who say it's shaped
and it's not sophisticated and all of that, but I just love it.
And in that you've got all these visuals of teams from
everywhere, including Oman and including.
And then suddenly you see Scotland and say there's
Bangladesh and there are those tigers, you know, the stuffed
tigers. Why?
Why they're not there? There's lots of Pakistan,
there's large roses of India, Australia and all the other
teams. But you see that then you see
the game and it's variety and it's, it's sort of eccentricity
and, and, and, and, and and all of that.
So that's what I felt bad about is that we won't have Bangladesh
in this because suppose Bangladesh are not any people
not qualified. Then you took it, they didn't
make it, you know, for whatever reason.
But this is like completely, it just feels so wrong.
And that I wrote that piece about the, the, the beauty of
T20 World Cups is that it's it's the the so Rashish from
Hindustan Times. And he not he actually, I just
read it. I said, shit, I wish I thought
of that. He called it the People's World
Cup. And everybody loves 2020
cricket. Everybody can relate to it.
You know, she called it the People's World Cup.
And I said I should have thought of that, but I did, you know,
but but shout out to Rashish Madani for for that in his
article also in the Hindustan Times today.
So yeah, basically that's what that's what the piece is about.
So keeping the sadness of the fans in mind, I wanted to start
with Isan bhai with you. What has been the reaction in
Bangladesh to the fans finding out that, you know, they're not
going to be playing in this World Cup, they're not going to
get to go to the Eden Gardens and, you know, celebrate along
with their team. And they're really passionate
fans. Thank you.
Thank you for your question, Richard.
You'll be surprised to know that there are fans who are actually,
you know, there are fans who are not not too unhappy that
Bangladesh and played the World Cup, if you could believe that.
I mean, whether they're fans or not, you can ask that question,
but it goes back a little. It has two basic explanations
that that you can add. It's firstly, obviously there's
an anti India rhetoric in Bangladesh right now, which is
being pushed hard by the interim government who came to power on
on on in August 2024 on the back of the army league existing the
country in in a violent, you know, student revolution where
plenty of, you know, thousands of students were killed by the
government. Obviously they didn't take any
responsibility for that. And since the the deposed Prime
Minister went to India, it, you know, solidified the hatred that
people had towards India from a political standpoint and from a
popularity, from a populist standpoint.
I think although Bangladesh did travel to India in October 2024,
I think September, October when they played two Test matches in
3T20 eyes, it was mostly incident free at that time and
not many questions were asked about that tour, which is
strange because you know, it was just after the revolution and
with Sheikh Hasina already in New Delhi, you know, wasn't it
didn't really have a lot of effect on the fans or or the
general public. But this one came in the back of
a number of political incidents over throughout December.
Towards the end of December, 1 major incident happened.
And then there are fringe groups which have become extra violent
in the last six or eight months. And they are mostly anti Indian
and anti anti Indian, I would say stance that they have.
So by the time the Mustafi's incident reached our ears, it,
it was already at A at an edge. And then you had the Mustafi's
thing happening. And when the sports advisor also
happens to be the country's law advisor, like the law minister,
sports minister, they're now called advisors because they're
indeed their government. The initial initially, because
of how the comments are on Facebook, it was pretty much
like, yeah, don't go to India. Let's not go to India if they
cannot, if they're if they're going to withdraw Mustafi's,
that's our way of protesting. It went on for a while.
And then when it came to the around mid Jan, when, when the
ICC started to say that if you don't play in India, you're not
going to play in the World Cup. You know, some fans have told
me. It's not just people that I
know. I've heard it online as well,
that since Bangladesh, they don't do well in World Cups.
You know, let's just sit this one out.
It was out of frustration, out of anger, you know, But it's not
the general point of view, Richard.
It's not the general point of view.
But there are certain opinions that were never heard before,
but because of how this discourse was presented in front
of them that, you know, if you don't go to India, it's a
political stance, but it's a it's a popular stance.
It was popular. I'll be very honest with you.
It was very popular. And it turned out to be sort of
like a government master stroke in the sense that it did
galvanized a lot of people. Whether it is anti cricket, we
can discuss it. But I think to answer your
question, yeah. I mean, fans are going to miss
the World Cup because now that the World Cup has already
started, you know, I can. He had a few murmurs like they
could have gone, you know, they could have played.
What if they were playing? Someone was telling me the other
day, a casual follower, that, you know, it's still the World
Cup. It was good condition.
The team was doing well. You know, what if they did go?
But again, that that thought process that the, that a large
group of people in Bangladesh had that, OK, let's not go to
India, let's go to Sri Lanka and play.
They still have time. People thought that, you know,
they could have changed things in, in like a month.
I mean, people, there were a lot, lots of jokes around.
But there was one particular line that I remember that
remember the 2023 World Cup and the ICC named everything very
late. I think the schedule was out
very late, like in the last minute.
So they said if it, if they can do it so late, I mean, without
knowing all the details and they're just saying that if they
can do it that late, why can't they change the venue for one
team a month or so before the tournament?
Anyways, lots of discussions on those topics here in Bangladesh.
But right now it has gone a little quiet.
I mean, there's a, there's a, there's a timely tournament
happening in, in, in Dhaka right now with all the Bangladesh
players being asked to play and the BCBS trying to make it, you
know, the BCBS trying to make make it a bit of a fun
experience for everyone with bands, you know, rock bands
coming in for the, for the matches as well.
But I mean, everyone is pretty clear what we are missing out.
So I have the same question to Emma, from the Pakistani fan
point of view, what have you been hearing?
Like are the Pakistani fans? I don't know.
Because all the Pakistani colleagues and friends that I
have here, they first of all are not that much into cricket.
So. And for them, it's like, you
know, I guess Tom Hardy got there, so might as well not
play. But have you been hearing
something else or like, what do you think?
Like it? You're on mute.
Sorry. Yeah.
So I think first of all, within Pakistan and obviously it's very
hard to speak for the fandom and particularly like I'm not much
on social media etcetera. So I'm not going to pretend I
can speak for everyone. But personally, and maybe in my
peer like appears, one thing that's been really shocking has
been seeing how oblivious the general cricketing world is
about what's going on, right? And so I thought of this while I
was waiting to speak and it's really good.
It might not be relevant, but like, I just want to give my
flowers to Sharda because I said she's Shahrukh, right?
Like if you look at Bollywood in the late 80s, it, it's all these
like men who are big muscles and angry and don't smile and can't
act. Bollywood's kind of losing its,
its flair. And it's just this agro macho
kind of place. And then this guy comes around
Shahrukh and he's both like, he's both more intense than your
Sunny Deols and Sanjay Dutts. And he's also more charming than
them. I think Sharda is like that
because all the rest of your, you know, cricket media, not
just in India as all these big Sanjay Dutts and Sunny Deols and
be like, how dare Pakistan do anything like let's let's I want
to call out some Goras also, right?
So let's go with Jeff Lemon. Jeff Lemon in this rant on
Pakistan being nihilistic, this and that.
Great, great points. He says Bangladesh absented
themselves from the tournament. And And I want to focus on that
because I think as a Pakistani, I was really shocked by how
things were being phrased by the rest of the global media to make
sense of what's going on. So Jeff Levin says Bangladesh
absented themselves and it's a remarkable control of the
English language to come up with this reality based on what's
actually happening. Because obviously we know
Bangladesh was expelled and was expelled because one of its
players was being given threats publicly that the Indian cricket
board did nothing about. I assume Jeff Lemon is, you
know, aware of these things, but I, I don't understand what world
he called it absent themselves. I'll give you another example.
Matt Hughes in the Guardian last night wrote he wrote that there
is a $3 billion deal between Geostar and the ICC and it's
predicated on Pakistan playing India in every tournament, which
is, by the way, not written into the contract.
And so he says, because every tournament is supposed to have a
Pakistan India game and because the deal is $3 billion,
therefore every Pakistan India game is worth 500 million U.S.
dollars to the international economy.
And and that's what we're losing by boycotting this match.
I think like even a child can understand that this kind of
logic is stupid and flawed. So to me, I really like, you
know, it's one thing for the Vikrant Guptas of the world to
be batting for the Indian cricket board.
I really don't understand why the Gora journalists are going
around and doing this. And so as a Pakistani, I feel
like there's definitely the sense of like, what world are we
living in because we're able to call this out.
And again, like, I, you know, Pakistani, am I talking about
the interior minister who has our board?
Am I talking about the fans? Whatever.
I'm just speaking to normal Pakistanis.
I think in that sense that reaction has been a bit shocking
to see that, you know, people who are paid to analyze the game
are saying such short sighted things about it and have such
little understanding of how the game operates.
Like if you really think that a bystander game is worth 500
million U.S. dollars and no other game has any value, then
maybe you should think about what it implies when one of
those boards are kicking out teams or setting up hybrid
tournaments or refusing to play other teams or refusing to let
players play. So I think, you know, to, to
answer your question like you're the Pakistanis I think are, are
a bit flabbergasted because there is, again, maybe they're
not or I, you know, they're making a huge generalization.
But for me at least, it's been pretty surprising to see that
ostensibly neutral journalists with a really good sense of
politics and culture, etcetera, are still coming away and seeing
really silly things, really basic things.
I think there's no doubt that Pakistan's decision was
politically motivated. There's no doubt that the
current setup in Pakistan is benefiting hugely from the
propaganda when that came from this, particularly as a very,
very major issues happening in other arenas in Pakistan that
that this is a welcome distraction from.
But I think within the cricketing world, the fact that
so many people are not even able to understand why this happened,
what led to this happening. I think that's is is just really
upsetting. It's really worrying.
It's it's kind of pathetic that this is the level of insight
that the game's best minds have to offer.
Yeah, I think so. I'm going to bring it I.
Was most disappointed. Sorry.
Yeah, I was just saying it. The most disappointing thing was
from Jeff for me as well because yes, usually the final word,
they understand what's going on or at least, you know, they
speak out loud. But yeah, I also heard what he
said. And very disappointing.
Yeah. So I think the most interesting
thing that I have read so far, the most interesting take on
this is from front of the pod, Sushant Singh.
He says that pointing out Pakistan's dysfunction does not
justify India's actions. Right.
And this like if Pakistan, Pakistan's problem is chaos and
incompetence, India's is something more sinister,
systematic and corrosive to the sport itself.
The BCCI in India is no longer a sporting body like that is.
You hit the nail on the head here.
And it's really shocking to me that commentators in in
Australia are not getting this. But for some reason, I think
English commentators are, which has been interesting.
Like Nasser Hussain, he's still, he's still spoken literally the
mildest terms. Like he literally said, OK, if
India or Australia come in and say a month before the
tournament that, you know, we don't want to play here, let's
change this into a more hybrid setting.
You know, would, would the ICC accept this request or not?
And, you know, just pointing out in very simple, basic terms that
there's so much unfairness in the system here.
And I want to bring in Sharda now is I just want to say like,
what are your thoughts on what NASA Hussain said and the the
meltdown that happened after that on the Internet and
everywhere specifically because it was NASA, I'm saying.
By the way, before Shardless comes today, I think there is an
sorry for today, there's an express article or yesterday
that Nasir Hussain said to commentate on T20 World Cup
despite siding with Pakistan on India, Pakistan issues.
I mean that too is beyond like beyond even commenting.
Emma, please thank you for many flattering things you have said.
They are so happy. But I'm just saying here that so
NASA said absolutely the right thing.
There was one more common value at it.
Apparently this is I had, I was in my outside the outside
Bangalore city, all this madness.
So apparently Peter Lala and Gideon said Pakistan is only
relevant to the cricketing world due to his rivalry with India.
Let's help. What is the meaning of this?
I mean, I should not get agitated and such only
absolutely the harridan kind of, you know, hysterical woman
trope. I'm just, I could not believe it
when I read it. I was like, yeah, like, you have
just taken like erased 75 years of a cricketing history of
stars, players, reverse swing, everything.
I mean, what is this? Every country is cricket exists
in it's own way and it interacts with all other countries that
take place. Cricket.
OK, number one. Then your point about the
richer, what you're saying about what?
It's all fine. My other grouse, which I'm
coming back to here, which I'll say every time no Australian
cricket journalist or English cricket journalist goes after
their board for being sidekicks to BCCI is bullying you.
Please tell me I've said this before.
I mean, they're just, they're just sitting quietly.
They're saying nothing. You should actually, I mean,
suppose you had turned this into, instead of 14/2, it had
become 10/4. It doesn't mean that they would
have won. But you've got 2 stronger
countries saying I don't think this is the right thing to do.
Oh, why are you not doing it? That's, you know, when, when,
when just so the meltdown that came on to NASA, I have not
read. I do not know.
Allison Mitchell did a podcast, very sort of sober reasoned and
the same podcast, but she had a great line in that in which she
said that she asked the question is world cricket, a castle built
on sand. So listen.
Yeah, it's, it's, it's a, it's a question to ask.
You know what she found out about this?
They were they were talking Chi Charu Sharma and there was
another person in Australia and sorry, I didn't get his name.
He was Glenn Maxwell who normally does the does the
program and I was just thinking that this is a world game.
Why do you guys stop thinking about the fact that its a world
game and along with BCCI is whatever it is, there are these
other two big, is that a city? Absolutely silent on this.
There is no sense of responsibility that you have for
anybody other than your own. I I, I get very, I get very
angry as his CE OS and his new yacht every year and all, which
is absolutely it's like $500 million on a statement like
that. Yeah, I have a calculation.
Now suddenly the second narrative that started is that
no, actually this match doesn't matter that much.
You don't do that much money. OK, then why have you played
them all? Why do you put them in the same
group all the time? Why do you play them at least
twice against each other? What is the point of this that
you're doing? You know, so there is so much
of, I don't know, like I don't know, the spinelessness is the
right word or there's so much of hypocrisy and so much of, you
know, trying to create some, you know, there's a great phrase.
Give it to me by 111 cricketer friend of mine, one of the few
that I have bubble of bullshit. There is like a bubble of
bullshit that goes on the whole time when it comes to
discussions where you actually can say straight things.
No, you're just sitting in this bubble of bullshit and talking
nonsense. And OK, social media is also
adding to it. And I'm not saying no that
social media doesn't have a say when it comes to attacking
people or not. But this is bubble of bullshit.
Only this I this whole conversation and narrative
building and fans and not fans. I mean people who are saying,
hey, conversation, this is what the money.
There's no transparent sort of accounting of what this money
is. What is the share?
You only have some percentage calculation.
You have worked out that Australia and England are
quietly sitting over that their revenue distribution model.
And that's what they're doing. And because you agree to that,
you, you're all in this position where this you are being ordered
round by by by BCCI because they they control the purse, they
control the money. And Speaking of its effects
also, I mean, I think if there is a underestimation of what the
effect of the purse is, I think the ostracization of Pakistani
cricketers within the global game is quite underestimated.
We just think, OK, we don't play them, but IMT 20 May only desert
wipers as Pakistani cricketers if I'm not mistaken.
And once Indian owners have SAT 20, they all already have all
the teams in SAT SA 20. Once they start having teams in
England and Australia, there will be an obvious impact that
will happen there and as that's happening in the ILT 20 league
there. Is that effect in England
already already right? In some way I wanted to ask, is
there a fear? Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry,
sorry. Please go ahead One second on
that NASAR and Michael Atherton interview.
I think they did say that the ECB was going to be very careful
and, and, and keep track that everyone should be allowed to
play. I mean, I would be very happy if
that happened. Sorry, you can go ahead with the
questions. I.
Mean how will they? There's no way to enforce it,
right? How?
Like I mean if the franchise themselves just shadow ban them,
what can? You do.
Our our guy will call them England Super Giants.
Two days it will take. They'll just rename the national
team to England Super Giants. Then what?
Yeah, and I think there's another, there's another
England, Australia context is that Australia also, they're
about to sell large stakes in their BBL, right?
That should send shivers down the spine of Pakistani
cricketers. You, you, you really limited in
the options of where you can play even franchise cricket.
Like that's got to be like a stifling thing.
And I want to bring somebody again into this is, you know, is
there any, is there any worry within, within Bangladesh that
you might have to face the same ostracization that Pakistan is
facing or Pakistani cricketers are facing around the world as a
result of this? Well, it's not that that big of
a deal because not many Bangladeshis actually play in
franchise cricket. I think recently Rishab Hussain,
the next spinner was playing in the Big Bash.
Obviously most of these was called up to the IPL and not
playing, but generally Bangladeshi cricketers, they
don't really play a lot of franchise cricketer.
You have Tuscan, you have most of these, you have you have
Shakib, who interestingly played for the, I think the Mumbai
Indians equivalent team in the ILG 20, the the team owned by
the Reliance. Group MI Emirates.
MI Emirates, right, Yeah. So it's it's quite limited and
also there's like hardly any chance of any foreign investment
in a BPLT because it's so dysfunctional.
No one is the is interested. And you have a lot of Pakistani
players playing in the BPL. And I'll see one of the tweets
recently that I think one of the highest paid, I think Shay
Dafidi has, is the highest paid player ever in a in a franchise
league. And that $700,000 has come from
his BPL contract, whenever that was.
What about what about the board? So the board's finances, because
what I have read is that a lot of what the BCB makes and the
money that they have is from the investments rather than organic
growth. So what is their ability to
tolerate, tolerate this kind of this kind of an issue and
including like not having bilateral ties with India maybe
later in the year, I think that tour has been cancelled.
Like what is, do they think that they can tide over this or they
really need that to be restored? Well, two parts to that answer I
think. Firstly, the fact that they,
they haven't played this World Cup, I mean, whichever the
circumstances, the ICC can come down hard on them.
I mean, there we have heard about a fine for missing out
these three matches, which may not happen because Scotland has
stepped in and you know, they, they brought in Scotland.
Maybe that was to, you know, mitigate that fine part.
That's one. The second part is obviously
whatever happens to Bangladesh's ranking, I think the yearly
payment or, or the five yearly cycle payment depends a little
bit on that, on the team's accumulated ranking in the T3
formats. So if Bangladesh goes down, that
might have an effect. But major concern here among a
lot of these, you know, cricket experts and and analysts and,
and you know, well known cricket officials here is obviously the
relationship with BCCI and the way where it's going to stand
after this whole mess with the, you know, the national elections
just days away. We're actually five days away
from those from that national election.
That holds the key. I think whoever comes to power,
they have to mend fences with India, not just for cricket.
I think generally whatever has happened, I mean, the export,
import and all the other commercial side is OK.
The flights are ongoing. Things are still normal in that,
in that sort of, you know, neighborly ways.
But the cricket thing has obviously touched a lot of
nerves, and that's where the BCB, you know, has completely
failed in managing that relationship, you know, taking
the diplomatic routes. Or I mean, again, I understand
that, you know, the ICC and the BCCI came down very hard on
Bangladesh. But again, from a Bangladeshi
point of view, there were a few things that the BCB could have
done differently or could have done properly to make sure that
you know. The government's target could be
fulfilled. At the same time the cricketers
will miss out on the World Cup. I think in that front, a lot has
changed in the PCB. It's a very new cricket board
with a lot of inexperienced people.
And you know, there are plenty of battles in other ends as
well, with players and with other officials, with other
teams here, domestic level. So I think to answer your
question, there is a bit of concerned about what the ICC
might end up doing. But I think that's another where
another place where the BCB might push the ICC into the
other direction that OK, don't find Bangladesh, don't put any
financial restrictions on them. But what the BCB does with the
BCCI depends on this election and then what happens with that
tour. As you just mentioned, Indian
Express filed the news almost immediately after Bangladesh,
where the first time by the Bangladesh government said that
we might not go to India or we will not go to India.
That's when they file the news that that too is over.
It was an easy thing to say at that time, but from what I
understand, it's still not off the table.
It's still not gone from the BCBS plate.
So they are they're still hoping that with the change government,
the BCCI, the first of all can be convinced.
And also BCCI might think that and that's another olive brands
that they want to, you know, go forward with because it's they
have already postponed the tour in 2025.
This is already a rescheduled tour.
So let's see if if that happens then you can you can say that
things are slightly better, but you know, there are concerns
here. Tour is actually a good segue.
I'll zoom out a bit. One of our favorite books and I
can, I think speak for all of us on the board is Rahul
Bhattacharya, Pundits from Pakistan.
Now, the prose is one part of it, the lyrical prose and the
fluidity and the way he describes cricket, however he
does. But the biggest take away as
young readers reading that book the first time was how cricket
became background score. It became about Rahul, an Indian
reporter experiencing Pakistan. And he painted a picture of
Pakistan and you know, in it's complete the entire mosaic of
Pakistan, how the people are, how you know, he was treated and
everything else. I, I want to talk to Amir here.
I mean, do you reckon now there is a complete Fisher We've,
we've put in on how the average Joe in India recognizes the
average Joe in Pakistan? Do you think that conversation,
that recognition that, you know, they're our neighbors
essentially. So there is a lot of cultural,
the shared culture. But other than that, they are
not the one sitting in the government taking decisions.
They are just average people like we are.
Do you think that is getting impacted and that is also
showing up in the diaspora Indians and Pakistanis?
I think something really great about trying to use culture as
propaganda is that it only goes so far.
People make take from culture what they would like and I think
that we we definitely there's a lot more jingoism than there was
back then. It's obviously difficult to
compare those two eras. You're talking about a pre
social media era. And when I spoke to if I, you
know, if I spoke to somebody back then, there was obviously a
lot more ignorance about India and post social media for both
sides. In some ways, there's a lot more
understanding. I think in other ways I'm I'm
sure Indians are as well. I'm frequently surprised by some
things that that people are, you know, have have misconceptions
around maybe younger people as well.
But I think if we want to give some kind of evidence, you only
have to look at the music scene in Pakistan where particularly
after the pandemic, Spotify comes to Pakistan, YouTube had
already been there. And the local music scene is
really the kind of pop urban music scene is really blowing up
and especially the rap scene. And all of that is really thanks
to India. The audience is in India, and I
think a good an example of that was when an Indian rapper,
Niezy, kind of called out Pakistan's Talanjum.
And Talanjum releases a song. It's viral on both sides of the
border. In fact, the hip hop scene
refers to itself as desi hip hop.
It refuses to choose between India and Pakistan.
So that's just a small example, not representative of the whole
populations. But what I what it, what it
signifies to me is that there's, we have millennia of shared
relations. So you're not going to undo it
with like banning a match or a song or whatever the hell it is.
So I think there's that. I also want to just go back a
little to we were discussing the finances of the sport.
And, you know, and I've been complaining about the fact that,
you know, it's one thing for Indian journalists to say
certain things, but like the way that all these foreign
journalists are parroting regime lines are essentially acting as
regime journals. And one of the things they keep
saying is like, Oh my God, the small cricket boards are going
to get so hurt by this, by Pakistan boycott.
And first of all, like the smaller cricket boards are hurt
when you don't play matches with them, when you don't let them
qualify for tournaments, when you don't give them an equal
chance to play everybody equally.
That's what hurts the smaller boards.
Get the fuck away with your concern about the smaller boards
finances when this is what you've put up with for the last
10-15 years. It's pathetic.
Secondly, there is this idea that so this, this broadcaster
deal that was signed, that was, I don't know, you know, Allamya
came and said the terms because it was obviously perfect.
And it's Pakistan's boycott that destroyed it.
G Star, Disney Star before it became GO Star paid $3 billion
for ICC rights for just within India.
Before that they paid 2 billion for rights for all over the
planet. They paid 1 1/2 times more that
just for India. They paid per match.
I think it's, it's $15 million what they paid for every ICC
match. So like right now, W Indies and
Ireland, who whoever's playing Scotland, they paid Scotland,
they paid more money for that than relying of than the total
cost of an IPL game. An IPL game after the 2022
rights was including digital broadcast $12 million per game,
ICC games of $15 million per game.
Who signed this deal? It's an insane deal.
There's no one on the planet who can make it profitable if you
really think that Indian audiences are going to watch
random countries more than they'll watch an IPL match.
So it's a terrible, terrible, terrible deal.
And what it it's not working it, it's not just the international,
the ICC deal that's not working out.
The IPL deal was overpriced as well.
No one really wants to talk about that.
It's very easy to talk about, oh, ICC games are tournament is
boring and this and that and Pakistan, India and blah, blah,
blah. Why is the IPL deal also a news
around the neck of the broadcasters?
And the final thing, and I think something that no one wants to
acknowledge, is that what we've realized is that the the party
is over for the Indian economy, the the exponential growth that
the investments were being made in.
When you look at those 2022 rights and what kind of logic,
if any, was being employed, the logic was that the Indian market
is going to keep growing exponentially.
Otts are going to break the stranglehold off cable.
But what we've seen over the last four years is that the IPL
market is only increased by by like 10.
Revenues from advertisements increase about 10 to 15%, but
the investment for those rights has increased exponentially.
So what I'm trying to get at is that there is a massive economic
contraction that is around the corner in world cricket that has
nothing to do with Pakistan boycotting matches or not.
It all has to do with the broadcaster first overpaying
wildly and then whoever you want to blame, the BCCI or the ICC,
really getting in bed with the broadcast and being like, what
do you want us to do? And and there's this expectation
that the next round of the rights are going to be severely
downgraded. The downgrade has happened
because if the Indian television market or OTT market had grown
at the rate these investments were being made at, we wouldn't
be worrying about this. What has happened is that almost
from, I don't know, the 90s onwards, where the growth of the
Indian economy has kept growing cricket as a whole, that gravy
train has come to a stop. And if Pakistan had, you could
kick Pakistan out of international cricket.
That reality is not going to change.
And I think that's something where it's it's the
responsibility of journalists who make a living following this
sport, who are, who are really nearly saying 500 million
dollars, $30 million Pakistan hurting smaller birds.
Bro, get off your laptops, do some research and think about
what's happening over here. Because it's really this the,
the, the economic jhatka that cricket is about to get is not
about this one match. And no one is really being able
to articulate that very well. And, and so I'm sorry, I know
the question was about to be how Pakistani fans are feeling about
this, but I think there is there is an important thing to be said
over here as well. OK, you can take Pakistani fans
out of the equation. You can take Pakistan out of the
equation. There is a looming financial
inclusion coming for Indian cricket.
And it's not just the ICC deal, even the IPL deal is over
priced. What's going to happen then?
That is actually an existential problem for cricket, not
Pakistan boycotting one group game.
I think, Emmer, just before you come in again and tell us about
the real feelings of Pakistan fans, I must add here for the
listeners is that the IPL deal was always like always going to
fail purely for the fact that 50% of that deal goes to the
BCCI because it conducts the IPL.
That's it. Just because it conducts the
IPL. I mean middle man I mean there
has to be some end end game to that as well, right and one day
Mukesh Ambani is going to get up and like we need this as percent
up go and party hire broker No exactly so yeah, if the.
Sorry, the ignorance of journalists.
Also, when they throw out money numbers, I'll throw out one more
which I heard on a pretty mainstream podcast by now by a
mainstream Indian commentator who's commentating at the World
Cup. And he thought that Pakistan had
got $500 million to host the Champions Trophy.
So. What's the name of Batman's
friend? For viewers who cannot see Emma
has fallen off his chair, you. Know you're going to.
I'm going to add to that. 500 To add to that 500 million thing, I
have another question to ask. Basically, Emma, what do the
passionate fans in Pakistan truly feel?
I would I would highly encourage people to just Google that
phrase or or at least search it on Twitter and then enjoy the
next 1520 minutes of their lives.
Maybe this the associate board argument that they're not going
to get the money. What?
You guys on the board, you're winning votes by 14 to 2.
You can easily like change the financial agreement for them to
get more money. Like, how is that even an
argument? Why is there so much hand
drinking thinking? Oh, no, no, we can't do anything
about the associate boards and you know, Pakistan is doing.
This and this is what Reap reap board, Yes.
Absolutely, this helplessness, Shata, I want to bring you in
next about. I'm very bad at this numbers and
maths and this deals and all that, except I understood these
deals with 1 clear explanation given to me by one of my friends
who works in the business, he said.
See, why do people pitch for so much money in these big in these
deals that they do? Because it is basically other
people's money. It's not their money.
So they pitch and if they went successfully then it's great.
Anyway, now you can ask your question.
Really, no, I wanted to talk about like the hypocrisy in
basically the hypocrisy of all of the journalists and not being
able to call this out. Like Amber had a really good.
He talked about this really well there.
But what are what are we doing to South Asian cricket?
Like it just fills me up with so much sadness, right Because now
Sri Lanka of course is not happy because the fixture in Sri Lanka
got cancelled. The India, Pakistan fixture?
Not yet, you know. Today's new has come is that
some talks are underway. Anyway, deep talks are
happening. So there's one, the Narrative
Control Center as I call it, has said that there is this
discussion going on in which Pakistan has written to the ICC
in response to ICC asking them what is force measure in this
situation or something like that.
That is the story that has come. So you may proceed with your
question so. My question is like what is the
impact to South Asian cricket right now Because this is the
first time where actually the fissures have bubbled up and an
international tournament is at risk.
It's not just bilaterals and things happening like Untold.
The Untold statements going to IPL owners saying you should
not, you should not bid on Pakistani players think this is
not an open policy. It's actually an unknown policy.
So now that all the figures have come to the fore, what are the
impacts that we can see to South Asian cricket?
So the first thing about the question about the journalist
that you ask is that there are journalists I know that are
filing stories and that it's the at the editorial level, at the
leadership level that it gets pushed back.
I know that they're young reporters that are there.
They've got the stuff and they say no one's want to publish it.
You know, boss doesn't want to publish boss, boss, boss doesn't
says no, boss is OK, boss, boss is OK.
That A1 level boss up says no. So those pressures are
definitely very much under, you know, happening with, with
journalists in India. There are, there are, there are
lots of journalists in, on social media in India who are
pro the BCCI starts, which is their, you know, freedom to, to
do it. But I, I definitely know that
there are pressures from management and at senior
editorial levels to not say the most obvious things that are
there to be said. So, and, and your second
question about the damage that's going to South Asia, when I was
writing the column for the Hindustan Times yesterday, I
said we calculate the total population of all the countries
that are playing. I included Bangladesh as well,
that all the countries that would have played in this, in
this World Cup and it came close to 2 billion, which is 1/4 of
the world's population. And you're thinking, you idiots,
what have you done? What are you doing?
You know, look at this. And so you're including Nepal,
you're including Afghanistan, you're, and, and then you've got
India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka.
And you're saying there's six countries with almost 2 billion
people total. OK, India is the largest, but
Pakistan and Bangladesh are not small.
I mean, Bangladesh's population is 100 million more than
England, which is the next, the next large cricketing country
in, in, in the world. So it's almost like they don't
understand how I'm assuming this for them.
It's looking from the outside that there is no South Asian
view as such of what South Asia and, and, and the, and the power
that South Asian cricket has as a whole.
Because India as the Big Brother in the in, in, in the, in the
subcontinent has now gone inside it with the other big sort of
semi Big Brothers in cricket, which is England and Australia,
which is, which is it's completely, it's a financial
transaction and it's and it and it's followed all this.
So everyone around here and the whole thing is so even players
who I really respect. And you know, they say that,
look, we play more cricket in these other countries because of
the fact that we are the ones that generate money.
So, yeah, you're not doing in the world of field, you're
playing cricket. It's just, it just makes it
better for them. More countries playing cricket,
more people playing cricket of a particular standard.
If standards have fallen, how much of that or how much of that
is a fact due to, because of this changed financial model
that you put out, what had worked previously?
And how much more money does the BCCI want to make?
And what is it going to do with that money?
You know, is it like, it's the whole, the way I go back to my
favorite pet topic that for every rupee, for every ₹100, the
BCCI makes players get 150, I think international and ₹1.00 if
you're a domestic player. So total 3 between 3:00 and 4:00
rupees goes to players. So what happens to the rest of
the, the money? But that's the kind of economy
that it is. It's, it's, it's opaque.
It's not. And, and that's cricket as I
mean, international cricket as well as there is no, there's no
leadership in the game. Many more.
That's why the whole thing they should be looking at, there's an
Olympics coming. They should be looking at South
Asians and look at the size. This is 1/4 of the the world's
population that's into the sport.
You know, let's make sure that it can make it.
It looks like it's a, it's a sport that should can spread
easily. It's a fun sport.
You can play it in Papua New Guinea.
You can play it in Brazil. Women play it very well in
Brazil. It's played in Thailand as well.
It's played in parts of Africa that had not been played
previously. But you don't have a global view
of the game. Never mind you don't have a
regional view of the game as well.
I mean, if you drop out South Asia, what's happening at the
Asian Cricket Conference or Council or whatever that thing
is called when they had that absolute mess that was the Asia
Cup also pet topic. Not a single press conference on
the ICC about this. This is the biggest crisis in
their game Since you know, I've done think of men since England
and Zimbabwe in in 2003 World Cup.
I can't think of what the other OK, match fixing.
Sorry, forgot, but you know, there's no press call.
No, it's not a press conference. You know, what is this?
You know, do you think it you your turn?
I mean what I mean I am without I am out of words when I look at
the and I think that, you know, all the people that are running
the game, like everyone's being they're just there's a phrase
that is used is come from Winston Churchill, which is not
the best example, but he called the men of straw.
These men of straw are running cricket.
It literally like the men of straw running the game and they
have no, they they they seem to have no global view of the game.
You know, as to what the and more that that global view of
the game that it goes beyond bottom line, you know, and, and,
and profits. And like Emma was talking about
the financial sort of danger that's lurking.
There's, I don't know if there's a there's a way to look to
solution. How do we make this work?
How you know what, what do we have planned ahead?
I mean, if you're, you're putting out World Cup tickets
like 10 days before the World Cup is starting and that's the
kind of way you run it today consistently for the last two
World Cups that you organized, oh, today.
Well done. Today's tickets were out today.
What are? You. 5 PM. 5:00 PM.
There were tickets available at 5:00 PM.
But but just to add, just to add to Sharda's points and quote
Sharda from her caravan piece in 2023 is the fact that where does
BCCI money go? So I must inform 70% of BCCI
revenues go to state associations and vanish.
So it's everybody's guess where it goes and who's leading the
board and which party and and all of that.
And to Sharda's point about the ICCI must inform Sharda and I,
and I did that to our guests in the previous episode as well, is
that ICC tournaments are built on sporting integrity,
competitiveness, consistency and fairness.
Just keep Arimi. Can I have to?
Write your press release here. Come on, I'm going to get into
so much trouble for this. Shit.
OK, somebody, I have a question for you.
How do you, how do people in Bangladesh are feeling about
like of all teams, of all boards, Pakistan sort of
standing with them and, you know, fighting for them?
You diplomatic? Yeah, I mean, it takes a genius
actually to bring Pakistan and Bangladesh together.
So credit where it's due. And do you have any insights on
like what was the negotiations between BCB and ICC like was
bringing back his maybe on the table at some point?
To answer the first part of your question, not at all surprise.
I was born in 1984 and my lifetime I've only seen.
Unfortunately, Bangladesh is mostly either you're with either
you are in India, either you're anti India or anti Pakistan.
Now that the army government is gone.
I'm talking from a very generalized, a very political
standpoint or a very popular standpoint that starting from
cricket, you know, I, I hardly knew a lot of friends who
supported Australia, W Indies, W Indies was fun in the 80s or
90s, but it was either in India or Pakistan.
That's number one. Number two, now that the army
government is gone. And, and you should also keep in
mind that during the army government, they banned, they
stopped the flight to Pakistan, exports were closed.
It was very difficult to go to Pakistan from anyone from
Bangladesh or anyone travelling from Pakistan to Bangladesh was
also a very complicated situation.
So diplomatic relationships were at its lowest, I think in the in
the aftermath of the 1971 war in these 1314 years.
So the moment that you know, our Malik left the those parties,
political parties or those would be you know anti India rhetoric
in them, they actually welcomed the Pakistani wave to come back.
I think I am the first person from Bangladesh or the first non
cricketer from Bangladesh to travel to Pakistan.
I think 10 days after the government changed.
So when I reached Pakistan, I could sense that, you know,
there was a lot of joy in meeting me, not because I was
Mahmoud Assam, but mainly because I come from Bangladesh
where, you know, the government had changed, Sheikh Hasina had
gone. And of course, even I feel that
with that government gone, a lot of a lot of elements of the
dictatorship were also gone with it.
Whether they have come back or not, we'll discuss it in another
forum, but for now we'll talk about whether Bangladesh is are
surprised. They're not surprised because
you know, finally we had, you know, some Pakistani bands like
Rahat Fateh Ali Khan coming in for a for a mega concert.
I attended that concert in December 2024.
It was a celebration of this government return, You know, is
this interim government taking, taking shape at that time?
And generally, you could see a lot more involvement of the
Pakistan High Commission here in Dhaka, which was, you know, very
different from how we grew up over the years.
It was always a very polite diplomatic relationship until
the Almali government started to set in new rules for Pakistani
nationals or Bangladeshi nationals traveling to Pakistan
or export and import and all these things.
Even cricketing wise, I mean, I don't know whether you guys
remember, but in 2013, I think after BCB didn't travel to
Pakistan for a 2012 score, Pakistan stopped players from
coming to the BPL. In 2013, that also happened.
Now after that, obviously Pakistan, Pakistani players
played in the BPL quite regularly.
They're probably the biggest majority to play in the BPL.
No surprises here. It was welcomed and it was
always going to be on the cards. I don't know whether you guys
have counted, but Bangladesh has played Pakistan a number of
times in the last 12 months, number of P20 series.
So the diplomatic relationships have improved under this interim
government and they're welcomed Pakistan at every opportunity
for helping out Bangladesh. Especially when I think when
recently Shabba Sharif, the Pakistan Prime Minister, made
that statement that they've done it for Bangladesh, that that
boycotted this match for Bangladesh.
And there was instant reaction from the government as well.
Someone wrote on Facebook and one of the one of the men, you
know, the advisors wrote on Facebook that we welcome his
statement. So that that doesn't surprise
anyone here. Sorry.
Second part of your question was the ICC and BCCI.
Having an excuse? About, yeah.
Yeah, I mean, what were the negotiations like?
From what I, from what I can gather from all my sources in
those two or three weeks now, that was not even the ICC.
I mean, it's very difficult to, you know, differentiate between
the ICC and what the ICC is saying and whether you know,
whether that's whether you know, it's, I can even call it the IC
CS dictator, whatever. But there was no way that they
were going to even mention the word security because in the
BCCI statement when they withdrew Mustafi, they didn't
use the word security and they have not used it afterwards.
And whenever the the BCB had mentioned Mustafi, it was dealt
with the statement like it was it's a domestic tournament, the
securities are different there, stuff like that.
So no, I don't think there was ever any chance of that there.
Then going back in fact on this on January the 6th or 7th when
we in is when we can for reported of the first discussion
between the BCCI, sorry the ICC and BCB.
Even in that meeting it was floated and I mean we have had a
conflicted report on that because the BCB denied to me
that it never happened. But the, the statement was if
you don't go to India, the points are going to be taken
from you. We reported that and we got, you
know, heckled at every opportunity.
The BCB president went after quick info, everyone went after
quick info. But ultimately that's what we
saw in the end that, you know, points were not taken off.
But you know, that was the, that was the unilateral or you know,
one in a single minded effort to bring Bangladesh to India.
Sri Lanka, apparently we heard after that, I think January 24th
meeting or 23rd, I don't remember the date, the board
meeting that the ICC had. Sri Lanka actually said we do
not want any other team in the OR any new team in our group
because there was a plan to shift around Ireland and
Bangladesh. I think it's one point.
So, So Bangladesh had absolutely no friends, even Bangladesh's
best friends, Zimbabwe, I didn't vote for Bangladesh.
So you know the BCB failed hard done by.
I mean no one, no one stood by except Pakistan.
So you can imagine that Pakistan's decision not to play
against India till today is being welcomed in Bangladesh.
If I could add something to that regarding the negotiations,
because as Sam pointed out, like even if you, you know, he's done
some excellent reporting on the story.
But if you just go with like the official press release, the
language that the ICC uses when it rejects Bangladesh's requests
versus the language it uses when Pakistan's government announces
it's boycott, There's a huge difference between the two,
right? You straight away see how
they're approaching even as the same issue, but they approach it
completely differently. What I'm saying next is
unverified. This is not something that's
been reported. This is stuff that I've heard.
It could very well be baseless, but because our chairman is also
the interior minister, he was in Dubai, the ICC allegedly centre
director, his name is Imran Khwaja and he was there with a
list of supposed threats. We can guess what those threats
were because Indian media had started publishing those stories
almost immediately afterwards. So you can, you know, put two
and two together. Reportedly, what the interior
minister said to Ron Kwaja, he's like, after what we've done in
May, do you think we really care about what you're going to do
now and whether that's true or not?
I think what it it could be true because what's what's what's
happening over here is that it's not like the PCB just woke up
and realized India's being unfair to us.
But every previous PCB chairman just did not have the sort of
leverage where he could kind of launch of a diplomatic battle
with India, right? Like if you Zakhar Shraf who was
like this, you should never surprising that he was in the
PCB chairman. He was famous for being a sugar
mill owner. But you know, you saw in the
2023 Asia Cup how easily the BCCI was just able to get away
with, you know, extra rest Deja Yahameh or Yahani killing even
that likes of Najam Sethi or Ramiz Raja, who've been in the
top position. Like they've not had, you know,
any interest in taking on the BCCI this way.
But Mohsin Naqvi, A, is obviously the interior minister
in the aftermath of a war. And B doesn't really know or
care about the intricacies of cricket, right?
So like, if if he makes this decision, his calculus really
involves the state rather than the future of the Pakistan
cricket team. And I think that leverage, you
know, has been very difficult for the cricketing world to kind
of move around because prior to that BCCI slash ICC, as Assam
said, it's hard to tell who is speaking for whom.
But they just had to kind of be like, hey, we're going to cut
you out from this tour. We're going to cut you out from
this tournament. And every other board was like,
you know, sorry, sorry, we're not going to say anything.
Pakistan obviously has had 20 years of being, you know,
ostracized one way or another. But even with that, I think it's
safe to say that any other PCB chairman would not have been so
bold or no, I don't want to make it bold and praise it.
It's quite brash. It's quite, you know, like it's
not really well thought too, like a lot of people are like,
what is the big game that Yaaraghaku planning Kisat Kalai
Mosun Naqvi? But it's like you're planning
Kirkat Kaling. What what route is there other
than, you know, either Pakistan's economy growing by
100 X over the next few months or the rest of the global
economy falling completely? Like there's no other plan that
Mosun Naqvi can pursue other than this leverage that they've
managed. You know, like I think the, the
analogy is basically the emperors new clothes, right?
Like most of all people are like ICC and no one else is like, you
know, they're like, no, what are you saying?
How can they say that? Like, you know, Gideon Haig is
like, oh, just critics views are irrelevant.
What a fine gossamer silk. The great sport is paying.
It's of course not naked, but that's what most of that is
basically done. And I think he's the only guy
who could have gotten away with that because, like, it's not
most of his problem. Again, I just wanted to sorry, I
just wanted to add something very similar that has, you know,
the context is almost similar to the interim government that
Bangladesh is here, right? It's basically and Shabbat, I
mean, I should, you know, we should also hear this out.
It's basically this government is here for another four or five
days, maximum a week. So when they took that decision,
none of their business. I mean, if they left Bangladesh
cricket with 0. And I should also add another
point. It's it's not, it's not a
speculation. It's, it's what has happened.
Cricket was our army leagues crowning lorry.
You know, I know it was, it's a shit thing to say.
But there's not much happening in the Bangladesh apart from
cricket that the army government put on top of their head.
And they control the cricket board through Mr. Nazmul Hassan
famously who who ran the cricket board with his iron fist.
And when that when that government left, the BCB became
orphans almost instantly. Like I don't know whether you
guys followed the news at that time, 14 board directors
literally escaped the country. Escaped the country.
Many of them were M PS or brothers of M PS and what not.
I mean, they were related to M PS or related to the Prime
Minister at that time. So BCB had 10 board directors
running the show. The interim government saw this
cricket board as a army league machinery, as an army league
tool or a propaganda tool that they wanted to destroy.
And back in 2025, late 2025, there was a some football match
where the same sports advisor, he said that cricket's
importance to Bangladesh is because of another country's
Hageman. He meant India.
We have to cut that out. He said it.
Then 2-3 other things happened. Some optics went wrong for the
Indian government and then the most of these thing happened.
So it didn't didn't as as Amir Bais kept saying those things,
you know, it played out in my mind that yeah, it's the same,
same thing happening here. It doesn't matter to anyone
whether cricket suffers, cricketers suffers, forget about
the game. This is not going to contribute
greatly to the game itself. But we have thousands of
professional cricketers who are suffering because there's no
cricket league, because there's a huge political problem here in
in the cricket board. On top of that, we're not
playing the World Cup. And the worst part is the person
who's in charge of this is Aminul Islam, the guy who scored
a century in Bangladesh's inaugural Test match, Celebrated
former cricketer who worked for the ICC, who boasts himself that
he knows how to do presentations and he knows how to do Canva and
PPT. He's the one who's presided over
ABCB, which doesn't have a running league.
And Sharda knows about the league.
I've spoken to her for hours about the Dhaka league and how
special it is and how you know how I played in it and stuff
like that. It's a, it's like the English
Premier League in Bangladesh. It's like 4 pier.
It's everything. Just stop that.
He couldn't solve that. He couldn't solve this one.
And there are many points that I've had.
And let us explain to you, the Indian government just took a
decision. It was the cricket board who
should have stepped in with some diplomacy or some sort of
language that they could have limited this damage for
Bangladesh because of course don't play the World Cup no
problem, but have some steps going.
It was just straight away like it was in a in a game of card.
Bangladesh just gave back the cards and said we are not
playing the game. You know, they could have had
they had a few trump cards up their sleeve.
I mean, of course, I'm in the slum, had Mohsin Nabhi's support
since the ACC meeting in Bangladesh when India didn't
appear. But then Rajesh Shukla, I think
joined on on a video call. He was forced to join because
all the other boards, you know, were joining up.
So, I mean, he had Mohsin Nabhi's support.
And I think they understood Mohsin Nabhi's theatre.
And my dad, I mean, he just is quite blustery.
I mean, he knows how to say those things.
And I mean by honestly, if if you compare the two reactions,
what Bangladesh, how well this reacted to Mustafi's and how
Pakistan reacted to Bangladesh's ouster, I think Pakistan's was
managed slightly better. And I think they still had some
things off their sleeves. They knew that, you know, India
needed this game or ICC needed this game more than maybe what
Bangladesh, how Bangladesh reacted to, to the to whatever
happened. So it was like the perfect
storm. I'm just describing the
Bangladesh part of it. Yeah.
Do you want to come in shutter? No, that's too brilliant.
I mean, this has explained things so beautifully.
We should all just just keep keep talking about the, you
know, it doesn't explain itself fantastically.
No, that's true. And and you know, it's in a way
because Mohsin Naqvi is a career politician and it it becomes
like Anuki. I've just done it and I've gone
all this in Punjabi. He just said it and, and, and,
and it's out there and you know the story that you're saying
that the threats were sent to him.
I'm just like, what? Whose idea was it?
Who said allegedly or reportedly or suspectedly, whose idea would
have been to send the, the Imran Khrajana?
Did you say what to say to give threats to the home minister of
Pakistan? I mean, to a, to a career
politician, just make a phone call and say, boss, don't go
there. You know, basically whatever you
do, let someone else do it. Sharda, there's just one thing.
He's not even a career politician.
He's a career journalist who who who basically was like a head of
ATV channel or something. And then he has an interesting
journalism story, but not a lot of journalism achievements.
But yeah, that's how he jumped on to it.
I think he became PCB chairman first and then the interior
minister. I apologize for not knowing the
details, but yeah, he's, he's one of us, basically.
Like Rajeev, Shukla is also a journalist.
Began as a journalist. Don't forget it.
I think Rajeev Shukla. Began with Rajeev Shukla.
There's that, there's that great line.
Rajeev Shukla. Rajeev Shukla.
Yes, salad. Maybe.
Yes, salad. Maybe that's the.
Greatest line ever. Kirti Aza as the intro to the
podcast. Yes.
Guess. Guess where was this written,
Sharda? Would you know?
Story and I ask you together. I think they cannot publish of
course. It's it's the greatest.
It's the greatest, yeah. I think it's clear that these
are not champion negotiators that are speaking on behalf of
the ICC. Somebody, when you've seen what
has happened first, could you send some of the list of
threads? Whose idea is this?
List of threads? Yeah.
I mean, even even with Bangladesh, right?
Like it's, it's really clear that the guy who's at the head
of ICC, his father has said horrible things about
Bangladeshi migrants and immigrants over the years since
2018. Since even with the previous
government that had really closed eyes to Bangladesh, that
was always going to come and haunt them.
And same with Pakistan. Like how, why would you go and
send threats like you would considering the press release
had such a conciliatory tone? Like, it's just, it's just so
much cognitive dissonance there to see what they're actually
doing and how they're talking in public and trying to, you know,
and go ahead, Emma. Yeah, I just want to also like
threats, I guess is the word I used I I you know, as I said,
this is not super verified yeah, maybe they they yes or they just
said came motion by they clink yeah so chilling, you know so I
yeah, so I don't know how it came about, but what we can.
Will downgrade threats to. Suggestions.
Possibility reminders, But what
we're all calling out. Is the fact that given where the
situation had gone and given how the ICC, BCCI had been used to
getting its way across, I think because of that everyone was
really caught out. You know, like I as I said, like
I don't want to paint most in like we are some Machiavelli or
something. As I said, like he had a pretty
0FS approach. So he's just like, fine, let's
do it this way. But that ended up calling out
just the bizarre bullying power imbalance that has been existing
in cricket, right? And so easiest comparison is as
some documented so well is how. They reacted to Bangladesh's
requests and then, you know, had to kind of switch their tone
when and when Pakistan came to it.
And I think that's where I'm going to come back to early 90s.
You know, if you remember dull like Sunny Deol is dating Juhi
and they have no idea how to deal with Shahrukh, right?
Like they're just like what? Like like how do you deal with
that? Like I think that's where
Pakistan cricket is right now, like.
No, you know what something is quite interesting about the
Pakistan, Bangladesh sort of relationship and how they're not
diplomatic and social cultural, whatever and how he's not
surprised by, I mean, it's always been improving and so on.
So Suhasini either put out this great to eat when this whole
thing started to build around Mustafizur and I'll just read it
out. I've quoted that in in the in
the a piece I did for Deccan Herald, which is a more measured
response to what has been happening and explaining sports
and and and political sort of entanglement.
So Suhasini Heather is diplomatic editor of the Hindu,
supremely well informed strategic affairs, foreign
policy expert and so on. So she says in her in her tweet,
he says with neighbor. This is January the 3rd with
neighbor after neighbor. The government allows social
media campaigns to overpower its diplomacy and destroy Indian
soft power. External Affairs Minister
Jayashankar can visit Dhaka, PM Modi can meet Bangladesh
leaders, but a cricketer can't play in an in an Indian team.
So that's what her, you know, it came in response to the news,
but about Mustafizur and it's this whole thing, you know, that
social media campaigns are overpowering.
I mean, they're, they're dominating cricket dominance in
in many ways. I mean, in India for sure.
And in from there, from there to the ICC as well.
It's it's sort of the social media build up that seems to be
running everything. I think there's one more thing
that I I said this to somebody else as well, and that's
something that I've, you know, as as an outsider has surprised
me, which is the fact that, you know, like again, both in
Pakistan, they've been movements of basically religious fascism,
like people with very hard liner views that have based it on some
kind of faith-based ideology. You saw that enabling
Afghanistan, other parts of the world as well.
It's something I would say I've grown up with and so with the
BJP and having a certain Hindutva worldview, very
ideological party. You know, if you'd asked me 10
years ago where Indian cricket, where cricket would be heading,
I would have imagined that the BCCR or the BJP, sorry, I'm
using them interchangeably, I shouldn't.
The BJP, India controlling world cricket, I would have imagined
that they would have used it as a way of projecting Indian soft
power, right? So like if there's 30 different
countries playing cricket and India sending money to all of
them, that straight away is giving you access to some level
of soft power, some level of diplomatic leverage or leave it.
And we see that with Saudi Arabia, right?
Like, they don't even have their own teams.
And most of the things that they're spending money on,
whether it's golf or football, OK, football meant they have.
But like, you know, other sports that they've been involved
through increasing amounts of money.
Yeah, right. And there is no Saudi even
players in it. And still, it's so invaluable
for projecting their soft power, projecting who they are.
And again, like, the FBS was just as much as, you know, kind
of global pariah as Narendra Modi was at one point.
And they literally use sports to kind of turn that around.
It's kind of, you know, I mean, this is me just shutting off my
political and moral side. But as a cricket fan, I would
have really hoped that the, the BJP would have used that really
spread Indian cricket. And maybe they not just Indian
cricket, international cricket, and maybe they could have banned
Pakistani players or whatever. And I would have had issues with
that. But at least the sport would
have grown. Like what really shocks me is
this this a, this desire to keep shrinking the sport because it
shrinks Indian soccer of power. I think it's a really one to one
kind of relationship there and B, that, you know, which I hate
to be agreeing with Arnab Goswami, but he's been going on
like, why did they keep playing? Why don't they boycott?
And I also wonder, like, you
know, ideologically you should boycott Pakistan.
Like, you know, the, the, the Taliban has made unpopular
decisions because that's what their ideology states.
Lots of people make unpopular ideological decisions.
But you keep playing Pakistan and, and it's not like you love
Pakistan. You're not going to shake hands.
You're going to celebrate with a fake trophy and whatever.
So that sort of disappointed by the lack of ideological
adherence that the BJP has shown because both from, you know,
either you could have gone the Arnab way and just boycott
everything, blah, blah, blah, or you could have gone the Saudi
way and use this to project your power, even if it goes against
your core ideology. The fact that they've did
nothing, the fact that they've been so unambitious that to me,
honestly, like, you know, 2016, Amber could not have predicted
that at all. And and that's been kind of,
again, from a human rights perspective, I'm glad.
But just from like, predicting the future, I'm surprised the
future ended up here. I I think this handshaking
thing, but not completely boycotting to play Pakistan, but
doing all these shenanigans is by design to some extent.
Because first of all, they are probably confident.
Yeah, of course. Yeah, that they probably know
that they're going to beat Pakistan.
And once India wins, then their supporters go rampant online and
everywhere, which helps them or they think that it helps them.
I don't know. You, I think there's also sorry,
I'm cutting both of you. I'm just surprised because it
could have just been easier. They come in Pakistan cricket.
You can't. Reuse that.
You can't repurpose that again and again.
You. Can't reuse it.
Yeah, you play that card once and it's over.
And I think one of the things we want to talk about is the right
wing project in in India and it's impact over cricket and
everything else, even basic things like the perception that
people have of Pakistan, like even in a propaganda movie, like
Durander clearly is right. They show that there are really
nice roads in Pakistan and people are riding their bikes at
full speed. And like, there's definitely
people in India who are like, yeah, Ituniachi.
Roads in Pakistan. Like they're just shocked at
this. Like how do you how do you say,
how do you at the same time say that this country is a huge
threat and we're going to we're not going to let them play with
us? And then on top of that, they're
like constantly on top of your minds every day.
You have to defeat them in some way or the other.
Like how is that? How does that I?
Just want to break up something about Dorad there as well,
because I find it such a amazing thing to unpack because we
obviously know what the content and I haven't seen it.
I haven't seen it, but I obviously know what it's about.
It's and it's about this really important story from my city and
you all know that you know, like this that one song where this
the big bad is kind of walking in and this slow motion and
etcetera, etcetera. And so theoretically that's an
anti Pakistan movie and that song is about that anti Pakistan
villain, But obviously it was a good song as a banger.
It became so popular and and I mean, last week there was some
domestic tournament that what's his name?
If the car remeds team won and and they to celebrate, they set
the trophy right in front. And then if the car does the
durander walk many girls. Oh.
My God, this is. It's a video.
Brilliant. Yeah, I'll send it to you.
It is. I saw it on the video.
I saw it on the video and it's just like blue eye white because
there's like this is really, you know, biggest anti Pakistan kind
of thing, but it is also a banger and and.
It is clearly mania if they may want to go is.
It is it the one that's it's that the the famous?
Arab is that one. So there's like Arab.
Is. No, no.
I think it's the, it's the Omani track, the yes.
Yes, it's that song, that song, the huge hit in Pakistan people
are and doing their wedding entries on it.
It's called Faasla. I think it's called Yeah, the.
Things you learn on the show. Superb.
Thank you and. And so yeah, like, I mean, we in
this all of this Pakistan, India cricket drama, the fact that
domestic cricket trophy in Pakistan, it's being lifted to
the soundtrack of this anti Pakistan song.
I think that's just it captures South Asia so perfectly.
No, no, the other one, the other that, that's a great example,
Emma, that you're giving. The other one to me was, you
know, this handshake is going on.
Not shaking, not shaking out. So same under 19 World Cup, no
handshakes happened before the match.
You know, after the match they shook hands.
People are noting the players shook hands after the match and
they conditioned what they were doing.
But this was, I know if I said this before, they had a women's
World Cup for the blind in Sri Lanka, right?
And in that match, the Indian blind women's team and the
Pakistani blind women's team, they just shook hands.
It was no big deal. It was like they're telling you,
you idiots, can you not see everything that's going on?
We are the ones who were supposedly are not supposed to
see. I mean, to me that I, I never
forgot that. I never forgot that image.
I never forgot that story. I said in the middle of all this
madness, there's some people who've got sense and said this
is it. This is our.
This is in our little universe. We shake hands, you know?
Yeah. It's I, I can't even, I can't
even think about like what sort of fine line you have to walk to
not shake hands or and still play and say bad things about
them everyday and still play. And I don't get it.
But just to just to see like take a take a long term view of
this, right, Shada, is there any appetite for putting the genie
back in the bottle for Jaisha? Like are there any concessions
that they can make to both Pakistan and Bangladesh or just
the ghosts of their past deeds coming back to haunt them like
Lady Macbeth? Like is that?
Now we have Shakespeare as well. Excellent.
So, no, I mean, I'm just wondering where this goes and
how this goes because if you are going to play in the Los Angeles
Olympics, if you're going to be a world sport, what does this
look like? You know, I know that Sushant
had some terrific observations, Sushant Singh that he made on on
on the podcast about the fact that people are going around the
smaller countries of I'm not taking names because I've
already got into enough nonsense by doing that, that smaller
countries are being visited and by ICC officials and they're
being certain conversations as assume are happening about
supporting India's bid for the 2036 Olympics, which is sounds a
bit absolutely OTD. But anyway, so I mean, it's not
that I don't believe it. You're, you're just wondering
how you going to dial down and dial back on this and where are
you going to go from here? Because this is absolutely and
it's, it's, it's an utter dumpster fire.
That is that you have started, right?
You have set this in motion. And, and what happens now when
the monies are going to be sought after, when those deals
are going to go out? What kind of conversations can
you have about this? What about the, you know, so the
other story, what if India and Pakistan make the finals or of
course the Pakistan is going to play, then they said, we're not
going for that match on the 15th.
We will not play, but how does this thing, I can't figure out
how they're going to solve this because it'll mean somebody
standing down, somebody backing off, you know, and, and how do
you back off when social media campaigns seem to be the way
that you are running the spot, you are running the spot on
social media. You are not being able to send
out a no, you did send out that very that strange place release.
And you know, I don't know whether this happened around the
time of Bangladesh that reporters got this message
saying that this is from ICC. But you cannot quote us with
Bangladesh situation WhatsApp messages.
Really. Yes.
I, I don't, but I mean, the often we get this ICC, sometimes
they, I think that's how they sometimes communicate with any
reporter, yeah. Yeah, but there's a reporter 1
reporter. Not with a whole bunch on a
WhatsApp group, no. No, no, no, no, I haven't heard.
I haven't heard that one, but I don't know whether you guys
know, but they approved some journalists of their creation.
Then they rejected it. I don't know where it stands
right now, but they rejected about 150 journalists from
covering the World Cup. And then I think 50, yeah, 150
usually apply from Bangladesh. So yeah, all of them were
rejected. All of them were rejected.
And then I think through another mediatory, they sent a message
that, OK, let us know if you really want to come.
We'll try to get you a credation.
And stuff. I don't know, we're doing time
pass. We just was trying to see.
Yeah, I don't, I don't know whether anyone called back or
anything, but. There was news.
Anyone go from? Bangladesh.
Not that I've spotted yet because I don't think they'll
get the visa as well. So it's very difficult to get a
visa now from Bangladesh apart from medical visa, yeah.
OK, OK, OK, OK. OK.
So you're looking at this and say, are you trying to increase
the game or trying to shrink the game, You know, and OK.
I always found it funny that when Bangladesh became a Tesla
mission, they said we are spreading the game.
You're just spreading it. You know, spreading the game
would have been taking it to the Latin countries about what you
know, even to Europe. Listen, this is now 2000, OK?
In 2000, in 2000, I tell you, all the countries who are not of
the same colour as we are, all of us in this group had a
problem with getting Bangladesh in for whatever reason, right?
So let's not, let's not think that that was a small thing that
happened. I'm not saying that Jaguar
Dalmia who posted, posted posted the same, was the same, but he
pushed. And I mean, you want more people
on rather than less. No, you got more people.
You got, you got like immediately you got 100 and
whatever, 150 million people at that time, whatever the
population of Bangladesh, you got more than that many people
more into, into sort of the scheme of things.
What's the point of them playing that?
What's it called? The tournament that it was
called? The, you know, the one that no.
ICC. The one, the one that they had
that ICC. Trophy.
ICC Trophy Correct Correct they. Qualifies, yeah.
Yeah, yeah. So that's not the only thing.
So of course we would go to Latin America.
Nobody saying no, but like right here, like Nepal at the at the
point at this point in time, it's Nepal, you know, why will
you not want to, of course, make the game gross?
You're supposed to. You're trying to do it, you
know. So it's it's fine.
But it imagine if Bangladesh would not have got full
membership. You'll still be hanging in one
limbo anyway. They've got full membership and
they've been treated like this, you know?
And the knockout is actually another great example.
When it was started, it was spoken about as we're taking
cricket to these. It's a smaller version of the
World Cup. We're taking it to these new
countries. So the first version was in
Dhaka, second was in Nairobi. Nairobi.
Yeah. Third came to Sri Lanka.
And from there it's been South Africa, India, England, England
again. No, it's just you.
It was. Done within 10 days.
And that was such a great format.
Just pure Jeopardy. Everyone plays everyone.
You one match in and out I think.
This is it's also important here.
We're talking we, you know, there's a lot of people here
from India who've been very open about calling out to BCCI and,
and very rightfully so. But let's be very clear, even
the worst BCCI administration has shown more interest in
quote, UN quote spreading the game than England and Australia,
you know, and and there's no interest in those cricketing
fraternities to expand the game. There's zero interest.
And I think I wanted like, it's just, this is a pet peeve of
mine anyways. But it was like a few days ago,
The Guardian did this story before Pakistan's boycott.
So there were other things happening in world cricket and
they do this story about like Australia find hope for next
Ashes. And I was like, OK, the Ashes
just ended yesterday So what the hell is the story?
The story is about the captain of the Australian under 19 World
Cup team. Who's it at that point was in
the semi final, you know, and they shoehorn this into this
under 19 kid who's probably maybe part of Australia's Test
team 18 months from now, maybe won't be.
But that's the kind of, you know, the cricket to unki Koi.
They'll just be to expand the sport at all.
So even when it's happened, and I think particularly
millennials, bit older, bit younger, we've had the fortune
or misfortune of growing up at a time where the Asian block was
an active thing and was actively trying to shift the global power
away, right. So we still have these
conceptions of how the game should be more equal because we
have kind of experienced that intent playing out in our
lifetimes. There is no interest in making
cricket a global sport. There has never been any
interest in making cricket a global sport, particularly under
the imperial setup. And then, you know, over the
last 10-15 years with just a focus on, you know, the big
three, etcetera, we've, we've shrunk again.
But I think wait, it was the anomaly in the intervening 20-30
years where you saw this desire to, to move the games power
center away. And even if something happens
right now, like maybe the Hindutva government goes out of
power, maybe they raise, you know, to me, like, I think that
next renegotiation with Geostar for the ICC rights, that's going
to have a huge, huge impact. You know, whether people have
certain ideologies or what right now, they'll have to deal with a
very different reality then. But one thing I can say for sure
is that nothing's going to come from India and Australia.
England and Australia, like they've really betrayed their
lack of understanding of the global sport.
Forget what kind of, you know, opinions they have.
They literally don't even, I don't know what they're talking
about. So that I think myopia, that
kind of bias. Even the worst bigoted Indian
administrators are not as clueless as what England and
Australia have repeatedly done in world cricket.
So, you know, when we're thinking about the future, the
future will also come from South Asia.
Good or bad, there's definitely nothing happening from those two
areas. I'm glad.
You called it out? Yeah.
Go ahead, Zapping. You know I was just like when
Emma was saying I was also thinking like Australia don't
holds Bangladesh, Australia refused to play Pakistan,
England last year hosted Zimbabwe's after the first time
after 2003. These countries barely play Sri
Lanka until 1998 when Murali took I think what 9 wickets at
the Oval. England used to give Sri Lanka
one test every tour, come play one test leave.
So it's an BCCI, for better or worse, have done their bit for
Afghanistan cricket this and that.
So I think it's spot on that if the future of the cricket is in
jeopardy, is ECB and CA have a massive role to play in just
completely siphoning all their attention to the to the money
spinners and not even acknowledging the rest?
Because the way Australia treated that Afghanistan tour,
they weren't taking a principal stance.
They were taking a very what's the point?
I mean, Afghanistan tour isn't going to generate money,
generate crowds. Fuck it.
So yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm very glad I'm what you call it out.
Sharda, please go ahead. Exactly, I'm, I'm in agreement
with what you're saying is because of And So what makes me
really even more frustrated because I've seen that past
where there were Asian broad blocks stood for something and
it pissed off everybody, all the old, old powers is that you're
behaving in the same way as the old powers have behaved, right.
India is the leader of this Asian bloc, former Asian bloc is
behaving in the same way as the old powers behave that it's all
about us. It's all about our IPL.
It's all about this little, this thing that we've made.
I mean, India, Pakistan, Sri Lanka, all these other
countries, Afghanistan as well, Nepal as well.
They've changed the way they've changed the the grammar, the
vocabulary, the DNA of cricket, how it's played, how it's
interpreted, what it stands for. And still there is no
imagination to see what this means in, in, in the world.
We should, I mean, the Asia Cup should be the most well
publicized and marketed and whatever tournament and not this
playground for no handshakes and all kinds of gestures of, you
know, send offs and whatever. And it's, it's just so you're
looking at it, say, can you not see what you have, what you are
giving to the sport and, and what are you making of it in in
this spot? And I'm hearing 94 day 94 match
IPL and thinking Oh my God this is what it's about.
More matches of what is that caption they put Rishabh Panty?
I'm not even making this up. I wish I was.
It came out as an act today.
It came as an act today. More Rishabh Panty.
King Kohli legends why then some should they put and Rishabh Pant
does the backflip and that is the caption they had.
I I don't know why you're critiquing this dude.
That's, that's so good. Rishabh Patti.
Because I think there is another phrase along with it that goes
which is probably not that polite, which is possibly what's
coming itself. No, no, that's I know.
And I feel it's such a great way of getting capturing Rishabh.
I was talking about the Tiger Shroff movie anyway, no.
Hero Banti. Yeah.
So I'm afraid you do such a lovely job with butterfast and
it's a beautiful and lyrical podcast.
I love it. What do you think is the
historical or literary parallel to the situation?
Are we more in Lord of the Flies or is it more like Deep Water
Horizon where it's a huge spill and it takes ages to come back?
What? Is deep water horizon?
I've never seen that. It's it's a massive, massive oil
spill that was done by British Petroleum.
Oh, I thought, good movie. Yeah, I think Mark Wahlberg was
in it, yeah. I am sorry guys, I was talking
about Pakistan as Shahrukh from Dal.
I that's, that's the kind of thinking that I'm going towards.
I think Lord of Flies, definitely not.
You know, we've we've had the situation where the straightest
was been upset for the first time in like a decade and a
half. And I think a lot of the
reaction is really about the fact that someone dared to do
that. Like if you look at the bottom
line, the bottom line is not really changing much.
The three richest boards are going to remain the three
richest boards. The amount of money in the game,
we've passed the peak. So the that that money is going
to shrink and all these other kind of situations.
So, and I said like I, I feel that's why Shahrukh and dad is a
good example because that's the only route over here right where
you're so crazy. Like as there's a infamous
saying that Pakistan in Pakistan diplomacy that it's a country,
it's a madman with a gun to its head, you know, telling others
to pay me, otherwise I'll shoot myself.
Like that kind of maverickness to Pakistan's diplomacy.
You can kind of see that over here as well.
Like this isn't something that they've got like, oh, we're
we're picking a fight with India because we've invested in our
infrastructure for cricket or this or that or we're going to
make more money. There's none of that happening,
right? So that's why like I'm sticking
with Shahrukh from that or, or some, you know, Joaquin from
Joker or something like that. Like I think those are the the
only those kind of problematic villains that you have a soft
spot for. I think that's, that's where you
find. Yeah, that's like it's, it's,
it's like the Anaconda from the movie Anaconda.
Like, you know, end with Marna. I was saying.
But it's going to take some people down with it.
Oh my God. OK.
I had one question about the CWG that is happening in 2013 at the
home of Ricket and the possible, the possible Olympics that they
want to host also at the home of Ricket in 2036.
What are they going to do? Because if they are now
antagonizing the entire Asian block that antagonizes,
antagonizing all the neighbors, they are alienating their
friends. How do they manage, forget the
2036, how do they manage 2030 Commonwealth Games?
Are they suddenly going to go like, actually, you know what,
this show has gone long enough. Why don't you come over?
How do you approach that? Because the moment you're saying
Commonwealth Games, you have to open your doors to pretty much
everybody in the Commonwealth. Same for the Olympics.
So you can't, like, can you say that we won't allow people into
our country from certain countries but also bid to host
the Olympics? I think there is a way to doing
that, and Saudi Arabia and to a less extent Qatar have already
shown you that way. If you throw enough money at it,
no one cares about whatever problems you've been causing.
Right. And like, Qatar still had a
slower transformation. Saudi Arabia went from like the
Khashoggi case to hosting all of sports and like literally weeks,
if not, you know, like it. It was if you have enough money,
I think these kind of U Patang issues won't happen.
I think something that many Indians have also pointed out is
that the BJP, you know, within Islam itself, right from the
beginning of Islam, there's been Arab Muslims versus the other
Muslims. And there was always the kind of
tension between that. The BJP also is down with that,
like they're love the Gulf Muslims.
Is this South Asian Muslims they don't want to be down with?
So I could totally foresee that path that these Gulf states took
to hosting events, which was basically throwing insane
amounts of money at whoever was involved.
And it's not like that, you know, Saudi or Qatar major
approachments with with, with other countries that they've had
fights with. So I don't necessarily think
that's something that the BJP needs to do.
The question of course comes to who's going to be fronting all
that money. Like, I think Saudi money is, is
still very different from like India's ability to spend money
and whether, you know, whether there is that appetite for
diplomatic building because again, like, because India is
just at least in the world of cricket has only operated in
full Badmashi, that approach obviously will be hard to do in
other places. So I, I think if there's, you
know, there is they, they've shown, they haven't shown any
great diplomacy so far. But as I said, like, it's really
money. If they have enough money, you
don't need to be diplomatic either.
Guess who's leading the charge for the Olympics from India?
That's called the IPL. That function is called the IPL.
But she was at the Paris Olympics.
So one day in the Paris Olympics, she literally asked
all the athletes to come over to the India House and do photo
OPS. And this is athlete.
It's the same argument right? BCCI brings 80% of revenue to
ICC bro. It's the same argument If Nita
Ambani brings so much money to the IOC bro then why can't she
take pictures? Bro, I feel bad for Mondo
Duplantis. He gets up, brushes he see he's
like OK 6.3 I've reached should I do 6.35 or 6.33 and then do
the texts her key Hello photo please dose those Lionel Messi
or Yeah seriously. I have actually seen him play
live and it's in my city that he came and like legit my family
like here are you coming? I was like.
No by ye flex nahi. Saw it happening.
I was like, thank you. By ye flex nahi usne usko apne
personal zoom. Do you think they do you?
Do you think they fed him the same khichdi that they fed that
reporter Rahul? Rahul.
Khan. They.
Didn't feed him, They didn't feed him?
He asked. He asked.
Can I taste it? And Khichdi and Rahul Khanwar is
like, actually, you know, when I go to people's houses and they
have really cute dogs, I also have pedigree sometimes.
So he's like, can I have this khichdi?
Oh. My.
God, did I take it away? Sorry, sorry.
So we'll, we'll go to US and buy.
What do you see is what is your wish list for world cricket?
You know, if you could have one. Wish list for world cricket.
I mean, the only wish wish in my list would be, you know, let it
be world cricket. That's all.
As simple as that. Yeah.
No, I mean, just to just to reiterate, I mean, what has
happened to Bangladesh this time is extremely unfair.
I mean, our most famous sports writer, Shankar knows him very
well for sure. But I think he wrote recently
that it has been 30 years since Bangladesh has sat at home and
seen a World Cup. So they haven't really missed a
lot of World Cups. They don't really.
I mean, they've really worked hard for it from 79 to 97.
They've played all these ICC trophy tournaments.
There was lots of heart breaks and they're finally made it in
97. I mean, they were the story.
I mean, whatever happened afterwards with the Test status
and how they played in Test cricket, that's that's a
different that's a different angle.
But I think from a participation point of view, the way they were
treated, I think it was, you know, unmatched.
So Amber by mentioned a couple of times how the two approaches
were different from the from the ICC.
And I mean, you're talking about the wish list.
Let it let this be a global game and let the ICC have a backbone
for a changeable. I don't know how different it
is. How different is the IC CS
constitution from the from FIFA? I'm sure it's very different.
But the way FIFA deals with things that I've seen it with
about a Football Federation a number of occasions, you know,
FIFA deals with these, even these small federations with,
with a lot of fairness, I would say.
I mean, if there is some, if something goes wrong, you know,
they're stepping and if money is required to pour the money too.
So, you know, I, I, I wish it's a world, it's a, it's a global
game. I wish that this global game is
also run with some amount of, you know, equality.
Yeah. Well said.
And I'm going to take this to you, Shada as well.
What is your wish list for world cricket?
Because it's often like it needs a lot of work for conservation,
quite like the giant panda. You know, they're determined if
you, if you don't take care of them, they will become an
endangered species. And they're quite close to it
so. No, I mean, I had a column for
sometimes about sort of by happy headlines for the rest of the
year because you've had such bad headlines for the whole of
January. And my one, my happy headline
was completely over to the top. And all I said it's basically
the women in cricket get their due.
All the men stand down. Women take over their office,
the executive office, the board office.
They run the game because they're just, I just feel
they'll run it better, you know, and they and they emailed the
Taliban to ask them that. Can you, are you OK?
Talk with us on e-mail. So I, I had something literally
like that, you know, so you just want and you know, and everyone
says, oh, you hate the BCCI, you hate the ICCI, don't hate these
bodies. I know that there are people in
those organizations that are doing really good work at the
bottom level, doing your World Cricket League, running all the
events and, you know, trying and get getting countries to come up
through the ranks and so on. It's just the decision making at
the top is so poor and it is so the, the, the quality of
leadership at the top is so poor.
My my wish for cricket is that it just finds itself by some
freak miracle good leaders across the board, You know, and
I and and and like, I mean, I, I could not improve on what Islam
has said that he's he's literally captured it for alpha,
that it just becomes a global game, a fair game, a just game.
And it doesn't you don't see things like this happening.
You know, you don't see, we've seen that everywhere in in
global sports. The people that have the money
are the ones that try to control the parlour.
UEFA will try it in in football and so on, but not like this,
not like this that you knock somebody off, you know, a
tournament where it is their their feeling right to play.
Yeah, I mean basically that just like it's that old men of straw
things we don't no more meno straw please.
That's my. That's my.
Wish list Emma, do you have a wish list?
Few of those. Shahrukh Khan character from the
90s should quickly look like. I was I was, I was thinking, I
mean, straight away Raju Bhanga gentleman, right?
Like that's Starbucks had already given us the the pathway
of how to be a good person. But I want to talk about, you
know, when I talk about my wish list, I just want to see
everyone play everyone, you know, And we've like, for
example, earlier last year, Bangladesh came to Pakistan and
actually played this amazing Test series, this swept
Pakistan. It should have been one of the
biggest stories of the year. And if we had a proper league
system, then we would have you know, and so I mean, this is
it's it's out. It's insane because actually
people don't even think in cricket, but we should have a
league like everybody else does, you know, like does it happen in
La Liga that real and bars are like, but how may do so it's a
piece match peeling or Bakijo Ghatiya team name like that is
the reality of cricket forever. And if you change it, just the
potential for exciting, amazing cricket that you see and you
know, Pakistan obviously being this amazing country that will
give everyone a chance. So you know that the league will
always be exciting. I would love to see something
like that, that cricket is a proper cricket basically.
I would love for the sport to grow up.
So to try to end on a slightly happier note, are there any
associate nations that you're looking forward to viewing at
this World Cup? Because, you know, we've already
had two pretty good stories today.
Nepal, Nepal, Nepal. I want to see Nepal do well in
this World Cup because I think they deserve it.
They're, they're known as the what the heart attack boys or
something. It's, it's amazing, It's an
amazing stories. It's an amazing story of a
cricket team that no one ever paid attention to.
And now they're, you know, pulling their way.
So of course for me it will be Nepal.
Italy. I'm going to Italy just because
I've watched so much Italian football and I have like, I'm a
Brazil fan, but I I love the Italy team and they haven't been
making it to the football World Cup for the last many years.
Soccering, Yeah. Incredible 22,006 May they won.
After that, I think they played one World Cup.
Ridiculous. So yeah, I'm looking forward to
Italy. It's the JJ smartest thing is
insane. He's never been to Italy and
he's he's the he's the captain. But yeah, I think 3 of the games
are in Calcutta. So hopefully I'll give a go to
Calcutta. We'll catch one of the games.
Hoping they'll do well, hoping they'll they'll push the teams.
I am, yes. OK.
I think one thing also, which can happen if you I don't know
if any of you follow American sports, but like obviously it's
Hollywood is there as well. They're so good at making like
the cinematic kind of documentaries can do we care
about like their sports. And if you look at just, you
know, if I'm brought up Nepal, just go and look at footages of
the stadiums at Nepal when they're playing these qualifying
games, dude, like that kind of atmosphere, you, you cannot make
that up. You can't buy it, you know, And
that's something like, I don't know, Anurag Kashyap is like in
as is sent with like, OK, maybe not him, but someone younger,
but any of them is sent to the Nepal team and is documenting
everything that's happening. You'd have blockbuster cinema
come out of it. And and I, I say that basically,
you know, we all all know the big teams, but as you said, like
the associate team, if you just follow their journeys and the
stories, all the individual players and what they've done to
get where they are. And you know, the kind of
already on day one, the amazing performances, all of them have
given. That's such a great, great
narrative. That's such a great story.
You know Bollywood, please do something about it.
Yeah, my answer was also Nepal, because what I must said about
the stadiums like last last T20 World Cup we saw like this like
Nepal games come a hall was another level and they almost
pulled one off against South Africa, like it was just such a
heartbreak. I have to go with Mahaboob,
Yeah, because they've got Indians, Pakistani, Sri Lankans
playing together and Bangladeshi playing together.
Yeah. I mean, like, that thing better
than just either of those is fine for me.
Please, you know, in terms of this catch pass fighting.
If Pilcom was a cricket team. If Pilcom.
I was just going to say I hope no one from UAE plays without a
helmet this time. I hope they all wear helmet and
no hats, no floppy. Hat that is 30 year old
reference that's older. Than you, Sartre.
Yes, yes, I'm, I'm, I'm older than 30, man.
I was the 96 World Cup. Yes.
Amazing. What was his name?
Sultan Zahud. Zarani.
Zaranavani Yes, yes. Yes, Obie, Alan Donald Co.
Yeah, yeah. Any of those teams where the
where all the South Asians play together, please.
Yes. Nice.
Hello. So on that note, we'll wrap up
our podcast. Today has been a fantastic day.
It has been a red letter day for the PCIPCC iPod.
We have facilitated A coup by getting 3 illustrious
journalists, commentators, podcast hosts, writers.
It has been really great having all three of you on Mohammed,
Sharda and Emma. Thank you.
Thank. You Shantar, thank you.
Krishan. Thank you for coming.
Thank you thank you. I was just saying if the 2
missing windows were Osman and fiddle I was.
I was done for life. Like that's it.
Of. Course.
That that that would have been, what is it, three more teacher?
That Avengers that was assembly. For sure, sure, yeah, though.
But just a huge pleasure and also I think all the Indians on
this chat, I feel like you guys are really it it it appears are
like a really vanishing tiny minority.
But the fact that, you know, you're able to call out things
that the way they are. I you know, I think the rest of
the world owes a lot to voices like yourselves, primarily to
Sharda as well, who's, you know, I risking life and limit field
every time she speaks. So it's an honor to be part of
all of this conversation, and it's amazing to see that, you
know, we still have these linkages because of cricket,
regardless of what happens at the top.
Yeah, guys. Thanks a lot.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
Thanks, Emma. Thanks, Assam.
The prodigal son turn Messiah gets a second hundred in success
in romantic style. The whole of Bengal are on their
feet.