That's four in a row, various girls they're going to blow next
in the prodigal son turn, Messiah gets a second hundred in
successive in their front and romantic style.
The whole of Bengal are on their feet.
The dream has diminished for Carlos Pratwick.
Favourable scenes here. On the 21st of June in 2025, a
case was filed in Ghaziabad against Yash Dayal, a well known
IPL cricketer and bowler from RCB.
The case detailed sexual exploitation of a young woman
from 2019 under the false pretense of marriage.
The case stated that Yash Dayal proceeded to cut off ties and
when confronted by the victim, allegedly physically assaulted
her. Subsequently, another case came
to light where Yashteyal was accused of allegedly raping a
minor, a 17 year old in Jaipur in 2023.
This is a Poxo case and it carries a minimum sentence of 10
years if found guilty. The Poxo court rejected his
bail. He approached the High Court and
as of 24 hours ago has been granted interim bail and
protection from further further jail.
You would think that based on how quickly the BCCI reacts to
evicting players from the league that they would have removed him
from playing in the IPL. These are two serious
allegations and especially in the light of the Poxo case, I
don't think I would feel comfortable keeping him around
young players and their families, right?
Wrong. They haven't taken action in
this case, although yes they are.
Was banned from the UP T20 league last year.
The most loved and upstanding franchise, Royal Challengers
Bangalore, decided to retain him ahead of the IPL auction in
2025. I guess having a left arm seamer
is much more important than the well-being of women and minors.
You know, we've seen this before in sport and other sports.
Thousands of miles away. In 2014, Ray Rice got into an
elevator at a casino hotel in Atlantic City.
Ray Rice was an NFL player in 2014 and he punched his fiance
Janay Palmer in the elevator. He was indicted for 3rd degree
aggravated assault. He faced her two game
suspension, two games. His team management lobbied for
a lighter punishment from the NFL and they got it.
When the actual elevator video surfaced 5 months after all of
this happened and people were justifiably horrified, he was
eventually terminated from the team and he filed for a wrongful
termination suit for 3.5 million and it's estimated that he got
most of it, most of $3.5 million.
To look at these questions today we have a special guest, a
regular cricket fan from Twitter, YBC girl and we have
Startalk who's a regular Co host on the PCC iPod.
I'll start with you YBC Girl. What are your thoughts on how
this has been handled through sports and the Ashdale case in
particular? So hello everybody, this is my
first time on PCCI podcast and I wanted to express my opinion
exclusively because I have been supporting RCB and I fully
expected them to take some action regarding such serious
allegations. But they have not only not
addressed anything regarding their own player, but they also
retained him without any explanation to the fans when
they have time and again said that fans are the heart of this
franchise. So I recently found out that one
of my football, one of my friends who is also vivid
football fan which I am not. He openly told me that these
thought of abusers, I mean play players being abusers and then
the franchises or clubs sweeping them under the rug just so they
can play them is very common in football.
Which I admit I did not know a lot about and I still don't
know. But seeing how closely the fans
are connected, especially to this franchise, I do expect them
to be a little more sensitive regarding such serious
allegations. I mean, at first when the first
delegation came again as Istaya, even I was willing to give him a
little benefit of the doubt because there have been
instances where women don't understand or women think
themselves direct victims of sexual assault when that is not
the case. But rather different approach
has been taken in the relationship.
And once it turns, Sir, there have been instances that people
use this as a front to take revenge against their exists or
so. But when the second allegation
came, which is a Foxer case, which is much, much more
serious, I do expect people, the franchise, especially BCCI, who
have been so quick to exclude Mustafa Rahman for just being
citizen of Bangladesh when they don't give any accountability
for their own players being accused of such serious
allegations. So it is not that the BCCI or
the franchises are not capable of taking action, but that they
choose not to because they don't think that women or minors are
important enough for them to investigate or take any action.
On one hand, you're preaching about making women's cricket
more prominent or making cricket more inclusive, but on the other
hand, when you have players with such serious allegations on
them, you completely disregard anything you can do, which you
clearly are capable of, but just don't care about it.
So this is something I think we need to talk about much more
seriously. It's all Richard.
Thank you. Yeah.
I feel like in the light of the Mustafizur action, it just looks
so much worse, right? This whole thing, you can take
action in this situation and the poxo case, like not taking any
action after poxo case has been levied against someone and the
poxo court judge has not granted bail.
I feel like this, this, there's not a lot that can be said after
that, right. And what's been interesting is
when I looked up the news, because he's been granted jail
by sorry, he's been granted bail by the High Court, judge said a
lot of the headlines have said, oh, good news for RCB as as an
RCB fan, Sarthak, do you have any comments on this?
No, I mean in any and as an RCB fan and as a male, I think that
is there's a perspective that I kind of have that, that from a
from the privilege of sitting afar from this right of of
seeing something like this and being able to being able to kind
of draw the line at this is terrible.
Whereas people whose lives get affected or people who you know
relate to those whose lives get affected, they feel it much more
deeply, naturally. So while the one of the first
reactions, right, you rightly said YB that they're capable of
taking action. For example, had there been a
match fixing case, they, they would have immediately suspended
him. Had there been, had there been
any other case, the suspensions and the at the very least
suspended. If you don't want to completely
banish him, you know, take him out of your roster, whatever it
is, this suspended inclusion, just say that until it is
solved, you can't play, you can't play cricket.
So just at the very least doing that, not not doing that.
Regardless of what happened with Mustafizur, even if the most of
his situation hadn't happened, it still looks terrible because
the cases are not want on, you know, just jilted lover's case.
This is sexual assault and there is a seriousness to which every
such case deserves to be taken. The correct legal proceedings
have to be followed, which I guess we're not in the position
to comment on whether they are following or not.
But the way they have gone about it, the way they've gone to
almost cocoon him and protect him and try to steer the
discourse otherwise. And which I rightly, rightly
said that, you know, the headlines say so much about how
we think of such cases as fans sitting from afar where we look
at it as Key Hamara, Larka Bhatia, That says a lot about
us. But the onus is completely on
the franchise, on the board, which in this is where the most
of the thing comes in. It's very quick to, you know,
step in and play. The school headmaster of Novika
won the league because, you know, the political party
doesn't want presiding government, doesn't want players
of a certain country in the league.
But when it comes to a case like this, and he Yash will not be
the first of the last to get this treatment, next time
something like this happens, it will unfortunately follow the
same part. Because like why we said that a
litany of such cases have come up.
I'm a football fan. I've seen all this.
There are big names who are admitted, you know, who have
admitted to guilt but who walked away Scott free.
So yeah, it's it's, I mean, as a man, I can say it's very sad and
ended, but it's sad doesn't begin to begin to describe how
terrible a precedent it sets and how how poorly it shows RCB and
BCCI. And if you look at the power
imbalance, right, this is somebody who's reasonably well
known. He's not exactly, he's not
exactly a household name everywhere in India.
But you know, he's a player in the IPL, He's played like
regularly for the last few years.
We all know of him. And if you follow cricket, you
will know his name. Someone like that can apply a
lot of pressure on the system and there is a huge power
imbalance here. So even though generally I as a
rule don't like cases that are filed against say promise of
marriage as as like an accusation, right.
So the promise of marriage, I don't like those kind of cases
as much. But I understand where they come
from, like in India and certain places like that carries a lot
of weight and that is something that can be misused and that.
But I recognize that when a case is filed, that means you are,
you're taking a risk as a person when you file an assault case,
that there's a lot of stigma attached to it.
And if your name becomes public or your family's name becomes
public, it you carry that stigma with you for the rest of your
life like it can, it can ensure a lot of devastation for you and
your family down the line. And that is why I take like
every case seriously. That does not mean that I
believe in the allegations right away.
Like I, I do want there to be proper recourse of law for this
case, but I understand that there's a huge power imbalance
from the person who's filing the case in this place and that we
should take all of them seriously.
And the BCCI should, yes, at least when the second case was
filed, the poxo case should have like banned him from being in
this league. Like there is no reason for you
to carry a player or to continue employing a player who's been
accused in a foxhole case. That is much far too serious.
And you're risking the well-being of your players in
their families. Like this guy is going to be in
in the dressing room. He's going to be around the
players and their families. He's going to be around other
people. There are RCB employees who are
women. You cannot, you cannot take a
risk. It's like you're, you're
disrespecting all of the people who work for you and your
franchise and all your other players by allowing something
like this, like a person like this to exist.
Especially if the allegations are so serious and so credible.
Like if you just switch like you said, like if, if it was a match
fixing allegation, they wouldn't have him anywhere near any
player, right? They wouldn't have him anywhere
near any stuff. Yeah, it would be.
Immediate that if this was match fixing ball tampering, violence
on the field, let's say he, you know, by mistake hit a player,
anything of that sort, like not just not just like actually the
the suspension would be immediate and immediate and
absolute. And the least you can do in such
a case is to say that we understand that it's a legal
matter and the legal it has to be done through the legal force.
But because of the gravity of the case levelled against you,
the minimum we have to do is you cannot be played once you've run
the legal course, once you've proven to be innocent, the doors
are open, welcome back. But until until such a time that
that happens, given the the given the how high he is, the
the case is, there isn't a chance we can just turn a blind
eye to that. We can we cannot ignore it,
which they have done. Unfortunately.
There's a there's a stat that I want to read out.
I was there's a book called Whole Numbers and Half Truth by
Rupani S So India's own and in that she quotes India's only
source of statistics on crime is the National Crime Record
Bureau, which is the NCRB. Instead of all the Indian Penal
Code sections involved in the alleged crime making into the
statistics, the NCRB only picks the most heinous crime for each
FIR for the statistics. So every FIR that is filed, out
of all of them, the most heinous crimes are picked for the
National Crime registry. Now there is a sexual assault
case every quarter of an hour in India.
Most aren't reported. I think 18% by large count, 18%
are reported, 18% reported. And even from them a selection
are picked for the Crime Records Bureau.
In a country like that, when a case like the one that's been
levelled against Yashkans, it stops being a question of old.
We don't know if this is actually happened or not sure.
But up until then, just, you can't just say that oh, like it
doesn't matter. Let it let it run it's course.
So that's just shocking. And you know, the, the fans will
come after us in the comments and use the very familiar and,
you know, overused trope of innocent until he's proven
guilty, which are heavy words. But, and they hold weight.
But they hold weight when there is a proper legal 'cause that
the accuser and the accused both go through when they are going
through it. By all means he's innocent until
he's proven guilty. But the accused is net
practicing at his home, preparing to play IPL.
The accused will be played paid in 1,000,000 by their franchise
and most accused in India. And like all the influential
accused across the world and at least athletes, they don't, they
don't even go through legal recourse.
Like to take an example, I'm a United fan and in the summer of
2021, Cristiano Ronaldo joined United.
He came back to United after a long spell where he had left for
Madrid and went to Juventus and what not.
Essentially. And this remains to me in my
life on the saddest days as a United fan and I had Microsoft,
my formative adult years, he had lit up United, he became the
world's best player there and so on and so forth.
Ronaldo is an admitted rapist Today he's out of jail because
the the way his doc, the documents were found where he
had spoken to his interviewer when his case was on against
Catherine Mayorga. The incident happened in 2009 in
Las Vegas. The way the documents were taken
out, the way the evidence was taken out, that is not perm like
submissible in court. So by that tech technicality,
he's out for 10-12 years. He did not even visit the US.
And there's a difference between the case has been shut and him
being innocent. The latter is objectively not
true and there are hundreds of millions of Ronaldo fanboys.
I happen to write an article and in the comment section I was
threatened with everything between death and sexual
assault. And this is not about me.
What I'm trying to show illustrate is our reaction to
these things, which says a lot about us.
Where our reaction when A-Team we support their player or a
player we really like, they are accused of anything like that.
Our response is not just discomfort.
That would be very natural that this person we like so much.
How can we be guilty of such a crime?
Our response is to accuse the other person of on fabricating
this. So Ronaldo is there, Kobe Bryant
is there and, you know, legends of the sport, but sexual
assault. And it's very important to call
that out. I mean, just because you scored
a million goals, that doesn't mean you didn't do this.
You should be in jail. And the way that Ronaldo's clubs
kept protecting him because they knew that we need to keep him on
the pitch. Losing Ronaldo means losing the
best player in the world at that time or one of the two best
players in the world. And even you never protect him.
And that was so sad. A younger player got the videos
came out of there being assault and again, Mason Greenwood, he
was protected. Thomas party was protected by
Arsenal. And this is just so regular in
football and in every other sport.
So it's you should at all points expect better from your team,
which I was bought your support like following.
But what is also very true is down to the person.
It's a men's club and they'll protect them.
They'll protect. They'll do everything to
protect. It's just it's how they work.
Yeah. I, I don't even, I don't even
know to know what to say. Like is there something in men's
sports that because it's so much of A men's club like that
they're trying to protect one of their own?
I just, I just don't know because this, this kind, I don't
think this is tolerated in too many other places, like in most
workplaces that I have been in, right?
We have sexual harassment panels to deal with these kinds of
cases. You have, you know, you have
your human resources, which they're not always great, but
there, there is some kind of a structure in place to help you,
to help handle these kinds of situations where more often than
not, like these are situations where it's kind of hard to find
evidence. It's not always easy unless you
have like visual or material proof to prove out these cases.
And most of the times if you see a pattern or you have you see
multiple cases like that is generally considered evidence
enough to stop further employment or at least, you
know, take the person away from their victims.
But I don't, I don't see like in such a large structure like that
of the BCCI, the richest board in the world, Like, why isn't
there any kind of a structure to deal with this?
Like why aren't there any panels that are looking into this case?
Why isn't UCP taking action? Sorry, I, I, I'll let you in
while we speak about this, but I don't, I don't think a, a 19
year old Ranji cricketer survives this.
And this is obviously speculation, but I, I think a 19
year old Ranji cricketer gets immediately thrown to the
wolves. That OK, we are going to make an
example out of that. And when Mason Greenwood
happened, I, I wrote another piece which also got the same
reaction. And the, the, the essence was he
was not as important as a Cristiano.
The world will bend over to support Cristiano.
When Neil Gaiman's report came out, the details were so
terrible. Like your heart sank while
reading the Neil Gaiman's report.
And it was 1 long piece, right? It was one incident after the
next incident, one after the other.
And this is somebody you had read through childhood into
adulthood, through your formative years.
And a lot of the reaction was know this can't be true.
And the complexity is understandable from a personal
perspective because this is somebody you love.
And now suddenly you're being told that somebody you love is
essentially a criminal capable of such a terrible thing.
But the legal response to this is is what is wild.
So sport, the more important you are, the more you're protected,
the less important you are, the easier it is to throw you into
the holes. So yeah, you guys go for it.
But I, I hold a strong feeling that if Yash and this we are
like, just to set the record clear, we're still Speaking of
Yash in, in light of the cases levelled against him.
We, we are not calling him a legitimate criminal.
We're speaking on the perspective of the cases
levelled against him and the seriousness of the gravity of
those cases. So like any anyone younger, not
important, just getting into even the IPL, maybe a young
player under nineteens player, I think they would have been
suspended without doubt. What do you guys think I.
Let our guest come in. So one very interesting
perspective I have encountered repeatedly on Twitter is fans.
RCB fans men obviously saying what you mentioned are that the
innocent until guilt proven guilty.
True, but they are very averse to the idea of dividing a man
accused of boxer case of employment for three months
rather than considering the fact that a woman, multiple women
might have been traumatized for life and their lives.
If he is allowed to be free and influential as he is now would
be affected a lot more. I mean one franchise releasing
you cannot be that life changing right?
RCB released living Liam Livingstone has his life
stopped? No, it's.
An admission of guilt? Yeah.
By be the moment you release this admission of guilt, that's
where they stop, no? It doesn't have to be.
That is what I said earlier, that the franchise can at least
take accountability that what you mentioned.
It doesn't mean that you're putting the cage of guilt on
him. It just means that you would
like him to clear, clear the legal process and then they
would have no objections hiring him back.
How is this any different from any other corporate structure?
Yeah. So actually you may you raise a
really good point that this is him continuing to play while
he's under this case actually leads to potentially his power
even increasing in this situation, the power
differential getting even worse. Especially because this is RCB
now a lot of people also ask me why are you mad that RCB retain
him? Because if he went to auction
some of the franchise would buy him.
How is this any different? I'll tell you why it's
different. Lauren Bell as you know might
have joined, as you might know, has joined RCB very recently and
with just a few matches she has gained millions of followers,
more than a lot of senior men's players would gain in playing
for 10 years. So everybody knows that RCB
franchise is followed and loved a lot more than even the other
successful franchises. It makes a difference because
it's RCB, because the casual audience go to the stadiums or
just watch it on TV, don't follow the news on or engage on
Twitter. They don't know the allegations
alleged against. Yes, they are.
They all they know is that this is a guy playing for their
franchise. They are going to love him just
like they love any other player playing for RCB.
They're going to support him just like they support any other
player playing for RCB. That is why RCB is different and
none of these fans are admitting that fact.
They just care about him being in the team, him fulfilling the
criteria of a left arm pace bowler.
But most people, 99% people are not willing to look through what
the cost of not taking these allegations seriously is or what
precedent it sets in the cricket world where at least as of now
we don't have players who have abuse allegations as rampant as
football. But if the boards do nothing,
then other people, other men especially, will take it as an I
mean there is no decent decent dissensitive to not engage in
their behavior when they see other people are not getting
punished for it. I think first thing that India
also needs is a players association and like that
includes the men and the women because what that will do is
give the players a bit of autonomy to kind of push back
against a lot of the decisions that are taken at an
organizational level between RCV and BCCI.
Also regarding the auction bid, I mean, just because you're
seeing 5 people litter the streets, that doesn't mean you
also should litter the street, right?
I mean, it's not an excuse that, OK, somebody else would have
picked. How does it matter?
You, you have the choice to be, you know, do the morally that do
morally the right thing and you chose to not do it.
So that is 1 And and secondly, I mean, I don't want to paint
Twitter with a broad brush, but to expect model fiber on Twitter
is to expect the shark to beat Vishwanathananda chess.
It's it's the same. I think the shark has a better
chance of beating Vishy at chess.
So look, fans use I've, I've long held the belief that now
that social media has given us anonymity and now that social
media has given us a way to broadcast all of our feelings to
the entire world, we use the excuse of we are emotional as
fans, which is a very fair thing to have you, for you to be
emotional about your team. We use that as an excuse to
engage in the worst possible behaviour.
That means that when a player does well, we rate their comment
section on Instagram. We rate their partners comment
section on Instagram. You go to any cricket, male
cricketers wives, their comment sections are always he's
directly mutual comment section. Go and check it out right now.
Similarly, Travis Head's wives had to block her comments.
I remember was it great cricketer Ian Higgins's partner
had to block her comments because they were getting his.
Ex-girlfriend who he wasn't in touch with.
Yes, so we, we just use emotion to engage in the worst possible
behavior. Very proud of it that this is
what we do. So it's very easy to say for me.
Like I, I keep repeating as a man, it's very easy to say for
me. But in these situations, the
comment section or the mentions tab of your Twitter profile is
legitimately a gutter. And because you will find the
like, it's what essentially what Sara Waris, what happened to
Sara Waris, right with this, with this article on Bangladesh
where she was just trying to objectively paint the picture
of, hey, this is what the situation is.
She's a reporter. It's a bloody job to do that.
Her job is not to be a fangirl of a team or more importantly, a
political party or a private organization like the BCL.
She painted a picture as she saw it and the whole world descended
on her and it wasn't ever obviously a critique of oh, we
don't agree, which would be a very fair discourse to have
regardless of how you agree that, OK, we don't think we RCB
should suspend based on these technicalities or, OK, can we do
a different thing because he hasn't been tried in court?
You know, can we discuss the legalities within which what are
the legal options RCB has? Or a very fair question would
be, you know, does yes, they all have the legal right to play
within the RCB. Play with an RCB until he's not
legally considered guilty. Those discourses would still be
as grim as they are. They will still be within the
bounds of, OK, I'm trying to have a conversation with you.
But what you get on Twitter, on social media essentially is this
mob of Hamare and I mean for God's sakes man, you both know
this. India is a country where marital
rape is not considered rape. So, so the lessons, I mean how
what do you even say about that? So I am not least bit surprised
to what the reaction to this they all has been.
And now imagine someone slightly imagine the Christianos and the
Kobe's of cricket, Indian cricket especially, ever
getting, you know, ever getting involved in such a case.
Hell would break loose and I have no doubt that the victim's
life would be made hell. I have 0 doubt about that.
Can can you even imagine like somebody making a case against
like cricketing gods in our country?
I I, I don't think like, I can't even imagine what would happen
to the kind of person I've. I've, I've made this point with
a couple of friends. We as Indian cricket fans have
been very lucky that most of the gods who this country has had
have been actually really nice people.
And sure, I mean, nice people is never like Neil Gaiman was also
a nice guy. So I mean, it's only so much of
A filter. But in so far as such a thing
comes, we've been very lucky that none of them are Dicks in
the way that a lot of other athletes of the highest caliber
can be. For the last couple of
generations, 3-4 generations, they've been really good people.
You can like one person, not like the other person.
That's cool. But if such a day comes where
one of the biggest names gets involved in some of this, Oh my
God, I feel for the victim already.
Because the instant reaction would be no, she wants fame and
she wants his money, which is what happened with Hardik's
wife, which is what happened with Chehel's wife.
And it's it's going to happen with Chehel's now ex or whatever
that stuff is happening there. So yeah, I mean it's the the.
Wife thing, if we, if we dig into the wife thing or the
ex-wife thing, I mean, I just don't understand.
You can see that this is this is a bad relationship.
This is a relationship that has gone sour.
In all of these cases, you're only hearing from one side.
Only one side has a microphone and can defend themselves.
The other side is not. In Hardwick's case, at least,
his wife was a well known name in, in the case of Chahal's
case, in Shikhar Dhawan's case, like you just hear these
cricketers talking trash about their partners and it's, it's
disgusting. And The thing is that they're
getting support from social media, which is it's, it's even
more gross. But you know your point about
the players association, That was a really good one because I
looked into like the NFL clearly had handled this case badly, the
Ray Rice case. So they came back.
They actually hired a special prosecutor from the New York DA
who assisted them on how to handle these cases.
So the NFL had specifically a domestic violence problem, not
purely it's it's a little bit different.
But you know, here's what happens for a first time
offense, it's an automatic sixth match ban.
OK, now in the NFL that's that's huge for the season.
Like your team, you will not keep someone on the roster if
they're not going to be present for six matches, right?
It's it becomes like a specific calculation.
And if you have a second offence, if you're found guilty
for a second, for a second time, you would you could get up to a
lifetime man. OK.
Now, before this policy went into effect, these are horrific
numbers. You would have an average of 69
domestic violence cases per year.
But after this policy came into effect, it came down to 34
domestic violence cases per year, an average of that.
Now, 34 is not a number to scoff at it.
It's it's a horrible, ghastly number of domestic violences per
year. But it is still trending in the
right direction. It's come down.
This is where you can see like just having like a standard
operating procedure for how to handle certain cases, you know,
you know, harassment, sexual violence, criminal cases, all
there is just it just looks so much better and it's definitely
trending in the right direction. Why is it so difficult for IPL
employers like RCB to have a system like that?
Why can't they just say OK because.
It would be taking of your cricketers that it is the same
reason why India doesn't have a director of cricket system is
because India's forever Indian cricket has been, it has not
been about the coach. It is OK.
Cricket is not a coach's game. But like the selection panel or
whatever in cricket has been driven by the cricketer, the
captain, the big name and from generations you've seen that
happen. So there will a never be a
director of cricket because that would mean diluting the power of
the cricketer and saying that there is this person at the top.
They could be the greatest cricketer the country has known
but they are going to kind of handle how the cricket goes.
That's not true. I mean, it is well known that
captains are asked before certain things are done in this
country in terms of cricket. So the moment you have a
cricketers association, not at a country level, but even at an
IPL level, who will understand it?
Operating procedure like you said, that would decide OK cases
come depending on the gravity of the case, OK, It's something you
know based on OK violence or something small.
I'm I'm trying to choose a better word here.
You you kind of graded that the the the worse it is the degrees.
Of severity, yeah. Degrees of severity, the quicker
you're out of the door. And by out of the door, I mean
just suspended. So the reason Greenwood's case,
I keep bringing it up because Greenwood was immediately
suspended by United, and United wanted to bring him back.
And that's because he was United Academy product and United were
like, obviously they're protective about him.
And it was so insane to see that the videos were there for
everyone to see, the audio was there for everyone to hear, the
pictures were there. And yet United bent over
backwards. They had a plan on reinstating
him after the suspension period was done.
Until the women's football team and women employees of the club
said there is no chance that is going to happen.
Mason Greenwood will not play for Manchester United.
And then they were forced to sell in until that time, which
happened over a long, long time. That whole thing took a long
time. They wanted to bring him back.
And that is where you need a standard operating procedure as
to act the very least you can. Like you said with the NFL case,
you cannot be playing for us until you clear yourself.
You want to clear yourself. You think you're innocent, go
clear yourself. Such a case has been put against
you. Clear yourself walking back into
the door, You're playing the next match.
But until you're doing that, the case is so grievous.
We can't take it lightly, but that that's how we look at
sexual assault in this country also now where we look at it as
ah, Matlab take. Care.
So do you remember in the Women's World Cup last year,
after the England, Australia game where the Australian women
won indoor, there was, yeah, an indoor, basically the cleanest
city of India. 2 Australian cricketers reported that they
were sexually assaulted by a man.
And the state minister, a state minister, Kailash Vijaya, said
he thought it was fit to say that this was a lesson for both
the authorities and the players, implying that they shouldn't
have been out. Yeah, They shouldn't have been
out without security. I mean, what?
What are you going to say when this is how ministers think and
this is how they talk and I don't even know this is how they
treat sexual violence. Kara Fujiwagi has quote read.
Players must keep in mind when they leave their place, the
security and local administration should be
informed. Cricket players are very
popular. They should also be careful when
they go out to Rome. Essentially literally saying
that you got molested on the streets in broad daylight.
The fault, by the way, is yours. To quote a great philosopher of
our times, criminal to crime karigahi, our body lick in it
like you galti ABK. We'll bring Viby into this
conversation. What do you think, Viby?
Where are you at with these cases?
I mean, there was a video that came out of Lauren Bell and a
bunch of RCB players going for a jog in Vadodara and some guy
just with a phone camera trailing them like this.
And they were very uncomfortable, the players,
because initially they're like, OK, fine, fine, OK, just click.
But he wasn't leaving them. He was kind of just being like,
constantly. And they got a bit, you know,
bit finicky with that. So that's where we're at.
Why we talk to us. Yeah.
I mean, as soon as I saw that video of Lauren Bell and Georgia
Wall and one more player, they were out jogging and first
thought that came to my mind is, God, I hope they have security
with them. Because as as an Indian who have
lived my life here, I know how how my parents panicked when I
just go out. So I live in Bangalore and I
have for the past five years. But even now some, if I am out
late, my parents are slightly worried until I get home.
So that is the kind of state everybody knows what it is, what
it is like for women in India to just go out for as simple as
running in the morning or a walk at night.
We can't and without feeling that, no, what if something
happens when we are out and adding to that, we have
regressed much more in the past 10 years.
Definitely, I would say where ministers, MLAs of the ruling
party are unabashedly blaming victims in their press
conferences, in their statements to the media, and no action is
taken, be it from the House that they represent or a party that
they represent, no action is taken.
They're not even reprimanded. And everybody knows what
happened with Bridge Bhushan Singh, Yeah.
Oh my God, I can I? Can I say what I found the
funniest about the bridge? Bhushan Singh.
OK, after the whole thing went, I mean not even found.
Something funny, I mean. Oh, it was.
Oh ho, OK. Now the whole forget the whole
thing. I am going after the whole
Vinesh situation has happened, cases happened, PT Usha LED
committee has come in and we are like OK PT Usha has come in,
this will be great. And we are told that Bridge
Bhushan will have to leave the WFI post.
They are like thank you about time.
Who comes in? Sanjay Singh, his
brother-in-law, I think, or his clothes, essentially somebody
from the family. The funny bit is they are still
operating from his office. It is still Bridge Bhushan's
WFI. It is just not him on the
plaque. So essentially after months of
protests where the wrestlers literally were on the streets
were I think 5 minutes away from literally putting their lives
work of medals into the river. Our response to these athletes
who we call Bharat Kagarv when they win an Olympic medal,
despite the system that is, is to tell them keep Dekho your
sexual assaulter. OK, we hear you.
But is it OK if he's does isn't chief guest, but he's deputy
chief guest. Chief guest will be assaulter ka
brothers essentially same thing. It was such a beautiful
illustration of Indian sport, Indian men and how India
protects his men and how India thinks of sexual assault as a
thing. And had there been a collective
shock at this, that this is not like the number of cases that
came against Bridge Bush, the number of people who spoke out
and the seriousness of that claim.
Had there been a shock that we can't brought this under the
carpet? You realize what we're talking
about here. It is not that Bridge Bush had
screamed at 3 plays. That would be fine.
OK, fine. It's not good conduct.
This is not that he's asking for sexual favours and he's, you
know, there's sexual harassment happening here.
Our thing was we are OK just to figure it out.
Just give it to someone in the family.
And to me, that was the epitome of like, indifference and almost
insult to a woman athlete and essentially women.
I guess that, yeah, I get you're here, but I mean, this is how
much we get. I don't even tell you how much
this this has happened at every single level of Indian society
and at every single level of sport.
So I grew up playing all sorts of different sports.
I have friends who've played different sports.
One of them has gone on to the nationals in tennis and you
know, another one has gone had gone on to at the national level
in a martial arts. And, you know, lots of them,
almost all of them actually have stories of coaches that are
verbally abusive, physically abusive, and in some cases
sexually abusive. And you know, coaches when
you're young girls and you don't know that much like we don't go
through rigorous sexual education.
We don't go through that from our families as much as we
should, from our schools as much as we should.
When you're in a position where there is a figure of authority
and you're a child and you're you put your trust into your
coach, your coach is like AI wouldn't say like a parent, but
a parental figure at least, right.
For a lot of people, their coaches are like even athletes
when they do really well at the international stage, a lot of
them talk about their childhood coaches and the reverence that
they have had the positions that they have had in their lives.
And these people continue to coach.
I know someone who's who was a coach for a specific sport and
the parents complained about him because he would ask
inappropriate questions to all of the women who were playing
that sport. All of the young girls at that
time were playing that sport and he continued to be employed by a
famous by famous agency and a training center that continued
to coach the same same girl. Sorry to.
Interrupt This is sorry to interrupt.
This is after complaints were raised against this person.
Yes, this is after complaints were raised against this person.
Yeah, cool. So you see that growing up and
you understand, like women's participation in sports, it
drops off after a point of time. Like there are other societal
reasons for this, but also like if your coaching structure is
built like this, how can you feel safe within that structure?
How can you excel at sports within that structure?
I agree. I agree.
Why? Why?
What do you think have like? Yeah, essentially it is telling
women that they they have no agency over their bodies, right.
If you so much as they're to step out of your very confirmed
traditional role to just raise your kids at home or just be a
wife or a doctor in the family and you dare to step out to make
a career or to pursue your interest, you just lose all
agency of your of your body. I mean, what else is the message
behind saying when you come out, you have to be careful because
men can't help themselves? What?
What exactly are we equating men to here?
Because, you know, what's that saying?
Even the wild animals only hunt when they're actually hungry.
Not just. But when we talk about women and
what, what indifference they experience daily and repeatedly,
we don't show any empathy. Yeah, yeah.
And coming back to our initial topic, I mean, where we started
that sporting bodies, they preach all they, they can preach
all they want about inclusion, equality, equal pay grade.
But if you're not providing a forum of safety or at least a
venue to address the safety concerns, then there is no point
in doing all the public relations about inclusion
inequality. Because essentially, if women
don't feel safe in the 1st place to be where they want to be or
to exhibit their skill, then what good Is all this money that
you throw at women's sports or make it seem like you're
promoting women's sports? Good.
For yeah, essentially, if you want to encourage women's
participation in sports and you cannot ensure like like an
environment that biases towards safety.
I I don't know what what do you expect?
Like this is all just, you know, one of my favorite places.
If it's lipstick on a big right, like what are you doing?
It's. It's also, I feel societal, I
mean, no one would know this better than you guys, but it's,
it's also, I feel it's a reflection of who we are because
a societal push back against this would have also reflected
in the organizations deeming it unacceptable.
A murder would be unacceptable. Cheating, match fixing and
cheating is deemed unacceptable. This is not.
And that's a reflection that we are a uncomfortable topic of
talking about it and B, we just do not take these cases
seriously enough. That's a reflection of the
sexual assault numbers in the country.
That's the reflection on how many people, women obviously
mostly go through sexual harassment on a daily basis.
This is a reflection on the kind of judgments that the Supreme
Court and high courts give on things like marital rape.
And this is how we like why. We also said this is how we
think of women's agencies. I will not name anybody here.
There's somebody I know who found out that their husband has
been cheating on them for five, 6-7 years, whatever, And they
found it out and they were very angry about it, obviously.
And, you know, they were like, this is just though, this is,
and they had kids together. They had a couple of kids, 2-3
kids over there and their mental life.
And they were like, OK, no, this is though, let's call it off.
This is you've crossed the line and the mother-in-law of this
person came up to her and, you know, sat her down and be like,
you know, let's call him a a, you know, a has that thing of,
you know, he women like him, he likes women.
So consider it as just a throwaway mistake.
And that was the line fed to this married woman by another
married woman. He consider it a mistake.
And this is 6-7 years of chief outside marriage when you have
when you're, you know, taking care of three kids.
So it is, it is such a reflection of if you took it
seriously, if you took women's agency seriously, forget
everything else, agency seriously, you would see a very
different reaction. I feel like even, you know,
having, having the kind of men's coaches inside women's team, I'm
always a bit careful about. I see how the women react to the
men's coaches because it shows, it shows a way of safety and
comfort. And after the semi final chase
against Australia when Aman Jyot hit that 4 winning four, I think
Harman literally jumped into Amol Mazumdar's arms and that
told me two things a that they love Amol Mazumdar and he's they
love him as a coach and they told me that they think of him
as a good man. We are safe around him and and
that means a lot because we know of sexual assault history and
crimes in India. So yeah, I think, I think it can
I. Say something about that.
Can I say something like watching that?
I had the same reaction as you, but after a while, like it
actually made me a little bit uncomfortable to see that, but
after a while I was like, OK, they trust him.
That's fine because that's it's just ingrained in me like that's
just my natural reaction. Like having that I I, I don't
know how to say it's, it's, it's like a defensive thing, right?
You're like, the first thing is discomfort and the second thing
is OK, you know, not it's probably it's fine in this case.
Like he's, he's a coach that they trust and, and and it's OK.
But yeah, it these things to like, my first reaction is
always going to be a little bit of discomfort with someone
invading someone's private case, private space.
And in this case, it didn't look like that.
But you know the you know. Immediately like you, you get
that sense. I'm with you, but what like
thankfully the camera capture it that way is Harman literally
went and you know how AMOL it was.
Initiated through her, yeah. And I was like that as a show of
comfort and I, I love that so much.
I was like, Amol could be a good coach, bad coach.
That that's for a bit late, different discussion.
But the fact that these guys trust him this much, it means it
means a lot. Sorry.
To interrupt you want to come out.
I had the same reaction actually, just as the described.
So OK, just from as a like tactical point of view, a lot of
us do not like the coach. I'm almost on that and we
question the calls he makes a lot.
But that night when I saw Herman just jump into his arms, I was.
So I did not register at first because I was just amazed at the
win first. But yeah, once it did, I was
like, OK, so these girls feel safe around the coach.
So that is at least a good environment in that sense.
Yeah, I agree. I I think it is.
I mean, it's, it's just seeing, seeing, it's, it's rare to get
coaches that make you feel that comfortable in your own space
And, you know, to let sports women be just sportswomen, like
just be people who are playing sports, not, not be overly aware
of their gender and their dynamics when you're playing.
It's it's hard because if you see women, women players on the
field, like constant, they are also constantly now in the
public eye about how they look and how they're perceived.
You know, there all, all of the things about them are
questioned. So when you see, you know,
Smriti take off her helmet and her hair is like all over the
place. You're like, OK, she's she's
feeling comfortable enough in her own skin that, you know,
she's not worried about how she's going to be perceived at
that at that stage. It, it's really, it's really
nice for me to see sport people just allowed to be who they are
unapologetically. And I think that's something
that we have seen in the Indian women cricket team recently.
And it, it makes me really happy.
And I know it's come on the back of success.
And you know, if they have failures, some of the nastiness
is going to come back with that. That's always there.
That's our that's our society. That's that's kind of, it's hard
to say, like there are structures that we can put in
place to assist with this process, but our societal change
is going to take a long time. Yeah.
If at all, it's going to happen. Easily.
Also expression, I think just on the women's team thing, the I
think the expression, the team environment seems such that
everyone kind of feels free to express.
I think I saw that change very soon with Amol Masundar come in,
come in and he seems like one of those chill guys and we've known
him a lot better in that environment over the last 3-4
months with the World Cup, right.
But even before that, I think when they when they went to
England, they were making these great videos.
When Grant they could made her debut.
She did this wonderful video and I think I'm always on the back
making jokes. So I think as a rule and so so
Henry chat about there has a book called the day I became a
runner. It's a wonderful book, it's a
personal story, but also she's spoken to a lot of ex women
athletes in India and she's narrated their stories to the
men. Listening to this with any, you
know, can I just suggest read the first chapter, just read
because there's so much as men we don't have even access to.
It's not necessarily a fault or something to feel ashamed or
guilty about, but we just don't have access to a lot of the
gaze, a lot of being sick, a lot of the dread that say, a woman
runner would face on a street at 5:00 AM or 10:00 PM.
We can just wear our shorts are vests and go run and we won't
register half the things, which obviously has a woman in India
you can't with. So the first chapter is almost
enlightening in terms of everything that a woman runner
has to be careful of in her first kilometer.
And a lot of that, obviously, it won't be surprising.
But all of it put together sets the context of just what it
takes to be a woman athlete in India.
And then the book follows. It's a great book anyway.
But we. I mean, that first chapter was
insane. And you come away thinking that.
Oh, my God. I mean, yeah, yeah.
But also when I'm going to run I am focusing on.
I want Zimmer on my headphones and I don't want potholes on the
road. That's it.
That's the extent of what my focus is.
And OK, if you're a really good runner, you will focus on a
stride length and this and that. Every atmospheric thing is muted
out. And it's the opposite for a
woman runner where you have to look over your shoulder, you
have to look at the man who's coming this way.
You have to you're noticing 3 people who are Googling at your
body. So yeah, that that book is a
great educative lesson if somebody.
'S recording you. Like Lauren Bell, 100% well
done, very well done, timely, topical you.
Should be on. Twitter.
So there is one video which I came across a few days ago where
a guy, he wanted to calculate what the cost of being a woman.
So and he didn't mean it in a way that being scared or being
emotional when you go out, but an actual physical and financial
cost. Because to ensure that we are
indeed safe, we have to pay a lot.
We do have to pay more than when, for example, taking
sleeper coach and then my parents have always insisted
that I take at least a third AC coach because we don't know who
gets in and gets out in a sleeper coach and he would be
sleeping at night and others might not be so helpful.
So just like that, he calculated and it was actually double what
an average man would pay to take a trip because he was.
So when registering as the when registering his profile as a
woman, he also chose an Airbnb with considering the location
and everything, which he didn't do for the male profile.
So yeah, there is a cost to be safe in India as a woman,
physically, emotionally, financially, mentally.
And yeah, one more thing I wanted to mention is, you know,
when people see that the sports environment is not so safe and
parents would automatically be more hesitant to send their
daughters into sports rather than they would be to send their
sons. This is what we mean.
Then we say that all men may not be violent, but they definitely
profit off of those who are violent because it automatically
scares a lot of women. And the guardians of women too,
because any parent would have a daughter who's alive at home
rather than a dead one who dare step out.
So yeah, I understand the concerns of parents or guardians
perfectly, but at the same time, I also think we cannot
completely be ruled by fear. Then we're essentially sending a
message that boys and men will commit crimes, but then women
are the ones who will have to pay the price.
Yeah, 100% plus access cannot be access belongs to everybody,
right? That's the whole point of an
egalitarian society where the park I play in belongs to me,
belongs to you, belongs to Rita and belongs to everybody who's
who gets to come to the park. It cannot be that OK you know
between 2:00 PM and 5-6 PMA lot of men come to play cricket
here. So women up now they CLO which
is essentially it is cutting off access.
That's code speak for cutting off access.
So no, I mean I'm fully with you.
It's a trickle down effect and as men we don't realize it often
that we have unfettered, unaccountable access to places,
access to things, access to a liberty and freedom.
That's in these places. Like you rightly said, in a
train compartment. How I like.
If I'm booking a train ride, which I love doing anyway, if
I'm going somewhere nearby, I wouldn't think of all the things
I'd book, ideally Windows 8. And I just go.
And I fully appreciate that as a woman, you can't, you maybe
can't do that. So I mean, and, and that all
comes down. I mean, I know that the original
topic was about yesterday's case and how we treat assaulters.
But our treatment of assaulters is a reflection and extension of
how we look at assault, which is, I feel, an extension, an
extension of how we look at the subjects of the assault.
And yeah, it's in the little details.
And I mean, as a man, like I said at the top, I can say it's
unfortunate, but that doesn't begin to describe it.
You think it's really interesting.
We started with how we are structurally handling sexual
assault cases in the country and it eventually went down to, you
know, why this becomes a barrier of entry for women into sports.
So. If you're going to do more than
just pay lip service to women's sports and the safety of women,
if you're going to, if you're going to make the environment
welcoming for women to feel comfortable and work in, work in
sports or you don't even need to be a sports person.
Like if I'm, if I want to be a data analyst or if I want to
just work at RCB, be a physiotherapist, would I feel
comfortable in that environment today?
Like do I want to do that this year in this IPL yet?
I don't think so. Like who's signing up for that
cake? And you know, if you are because
you don't have, you don't have other options or this is your
only, this is your only platform.
I understand why you're there. Like, we always expect women to
take these stands and take these moral stands, and we judge them
for it. But we don't judge the men that
have created these conditions and the men that continue to
remain in these places and not do anything about it.
Yeah, I think keeping. Of men who create these
conditions. I mean this is a bit pointed but
I feel like he does hold responsibility in light of how
much he's had authority over the team last year especially.
So I don't know if you remember this, but Dinesh Karthik has has
a really large house in Chennai. And last year when the team went
to Chennai to play CSK, the entire team was invited to his
house for an evening of recreation.
And yeah, I I just want to know if he would do the same this
year. Because exactly now he has, he
has his kids, he has his wife. I, I don't know, you're, you're
right. Like, we're not asking questions
of the people in power at RCB enough.
Like, I know that MOBA did a whole round of interviews last
week, almost like a celebration of the success that RCB has had
under him. Why didn't anyone think to ask
him? Like, what are you doing about
the situation? Yeah.
I understand nobody in the press, not even a single mention
of this case is being done when it comes to RCB directly.
I think they would have been asked.
It would have been embargoed. I.
Understand. I understand.
Maybe Andy and MO, maybe they're not as aware because they are
foreign coaches and I don't know what extent they are aware of
this case. But I'm pretty sure Dinesh
Karthik and the ones in the management, Prathamesh, Rajesh
Meenan, all all these guys would be definitely aware of the case
and it's progress. Yet no one has bothered to at
least address it. I mean, do you stand behind the
guy? Is that why you've retained or
do you not care about the allegations at all?
I mean, you wanted WPL team. So I mean that I think puts an
additional responsibility, at least in my perspective.
And compartmentalization of owning a women's team and, you
know, not addressing the cases of sexual assault against your
own player is Yeah, yeah, I hope.
But this is a. This is a tactic often chosen by
teams managers where they just, they just stay shut.
They they refuse to address and they don't speak about it in the
hope that it passes over. It's very sad and and like I
said this, I've seen this happen in so many sports where, you
know, there are sincere reporters who asked the question
and those so all press conferences there is, you know,
there are embargoed codes and this and that.
So either the press officer says that we are not going to answer
that question. We are not going to take any
question. So the press officer has the
veto to say that we are not going to answer.
If you remember when the Xiaomi incident happened at the D20
World Cup in 2021, when the last question was put to India's then
captain about Xiaomi's, about the, you know, vitriol Xiaomi
had to face on social media when he was asked that.
And it was all obviously religiously pointed trolling and
abuse, right? The press officer actually said
that we won't be answering that until Kohli said no, we will any
answer about, you know, how attacking someone over the
religion is the lowest form of humanity.
So it is it is, I believe, I would like to think there are
journalists and reporters who have attended these recent press
conferences who will who will have asked that, you know, will
Astair be plain given what is going on?
And I think they would have just avoid those questions.
That's what my read is. I wouldn't because a lot of the
actual reporters covering cricket are not bad people.
What we think of media as a pack, a lot of it is covered by
your, you know, YouTube ecosystem and they are making
content. They are not sincere anymore to
the sport or to the stories. They are making content and they
will do anything that feeds the algorithm.
But a lot of the press pack that goes yes, some press pack is are
you know, you're OK certain kind of content, but a lot of the
press pack are actually nice reporters since.
They are actually. I remember when Cricinfo, when
Cricinfo covered the auction, it was Bronak who's who's like,
what are RCB doing? Like, how can they do this?
How can they retain a player who's been credibly accused?
Like he was clear to talk about this.
I know that they want to. I know that they're trying to do
good job, but then they come up with these PR interviews that
are more PR than interviews and you get you get depressed after
you watch them, Right. Yeah.
Any any final comments Maybe Yeah.
I my point is simple. It is Foxo especially.
It's a very serious allegation. First of all, he should have
been, you know, reprimanded and banned by the BCCI temporarily
at least until there is some direction as to whether the
charges are actually false or he is prone to guilt.
And second thing, it's not like they haven't, especially because
recently they have done it to Mustafizur.
I don't see why they can't do do it in this case.
It just means that they don't take this seriously enough and
they do not consider that players, if they conduct
themselves in this way, they will receive no reprimand, they
will receive no punishment, they will not even get a slap on the
wrist. So how are you dissent?
Dissent incentivizing the players.
I mean, yes, there is law and order, which takes care of the
investigation and all that, but you as an organization, what
structures do you have in place to ensure that the very players,
the women who play for you under your organization, that they
feel safe? This is essentially your
responsibility and it is on RCB and all those who are in power.
At least they should be asked questions and I hope somebody in
the pressures does it. So take any final comments
before we nothing. Yeah, I.
Think I echo what why we just said that while I realized that
it's not always down to the press reporters asking the
question. A lot comes down to a the press
officer agreeing to agreeing for the team to answer and then the
editor willing to publish because the one of the first few
points might be made was the popularity of the franchise.
And that actually becomes a barricade for what a lot of the
publications are willing to willing to go ahead with.
I got the idea for the for the Stampede piece.
I got rejected by a couple of franchises, a couple of
publications because they are like no we can't publish this,
which is fine, which is a publication has the right to
publish whatever they want or don't know.
But point being that RC BS popularity becomes a filter
through which they see OK what goes and what doesn't go.
So I hope that there is a grilling that is done and if
nothing to force to force RCB to acknowledge what is happening.
And look man, I think I can say this on the behalf of all three
of us here and every cricket fan.
We would like nothing but our cricketers to be clean.
So if yes, they all go through the entire process and comes out
clean. No one will be happier than all
of us. There will be questions on how
the cases came and we will ask more questions.
The whole idea is to keep asking why and how, right?
So you'll ask all these questions and it is there isn't.
On the contrary, there's nothing sadder than seeing cricketers.
We follow, we watch, we spend so much time on, we give so much
emotion to, to see them accused of this and to see the way that
the system reacts to them is, is not saying much about how much
you're protecting people in this economy.
You, you, you are, you are almost going out of your way to
protect your asset and not the random Joe on the You can say
all you want about how people are close to our franchise and
how we are a people's club and all that, but those people are
raising cases against your player.
This is your chance to show that you're a people's club.
So yeah, I hope, I hope they have.
They're forced to address it because if they left to their
own wares, they won't. Yeah, I think who was it
Tarudra, who says that he loves everything about the franchise
except the franchise itself. I I think like they have, they
have a responsibility. They have a greater
responsibility to their employees, to society as as such
a beloved franchise. They have they have a chance to
model the behaviour that, you know, they would want other
others to follow and other organizations to follow in the
future. So I really hope that, you know,
if we raise enough questions that they then do the right
thing. That's that's all we want.
We just want them to, you know, protect, protect their players,
protect their employers, employees, do the right thing
and provide a safe environment for women within the
organization. I want to thank Bybee for coming
on. I think you he also reminded us
that we needed to have this conversation and we're really
grateful. And it was triggering and
uncomfortable and, you know, horrible but important to talk
about these things. Thank.
You for having me. It was a wonderful conversation.
Thank you for coming over by the end that's.
Four in the row there is good. I'm going to go next in the
prodigal son turn Messiah get the 2nd 100 in successive
romantic style. The whole of Bengal are on their
feet. Diego not that important.
He's gone the next ball. The dream is diminished for
Carlos Brackley livable scenes here the.