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This is Geology Bites with 
Oliver Strimpel. 

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A subduction zone can last for a
very long time. 

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During that time, it can move 
forward, backward, or sideways 

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and get stuck in place. 
It can even change direction. 

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What governs how a subduction 
zone evolves, and how do the 

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various kinds of evolution 
manifest themselves on the 

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surface? 
Claudio Fachena has been 

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studying how convergent margins 
evolve for over 30 years, 

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concentrating particularly on 
the Mediterranean region. 

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He is head of the Lithospheric 
Dynamics section at the 

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Helmholtz Centre for Geosciences
at GFZ in Potsdam in Germany, 

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and also a professor at the 
Department of Science at Roma 

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Trey University. 
Claudio Fachena, welcome to 

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Geology Bytes. 
Thank you, Oliver. 

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I'm very happy to be here. 
We've talked about subduction 

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zones in previous episodes of 
the podcast, especially the ones

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with Jeff Abbas, David 
Bercavici, and Laurent Jolivet. 

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But can you refresh us on what a
subduction zone is and what the 

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basic mechanism is that drives 
them? 

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Yeah, sure. 
At larger scale we know mantle 

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convection is a drive to 
dissipate the heat inside the 

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Earth. 
So one of the consequence of 

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that is the formation of a cold 
shell we call lithosphere on the

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outer part of the earth. 
And so those plates we call it 

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oceanic Lithosphere is created a
Ridge and then once it started a

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mid oceanic Ridge where the moth
material rise spread apart and 

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cooled down forming new oceanic 
sea floor. 

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Now the leaders fear age became 
colder and eventually denser 

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than the hotter softer material 
that is beneath it. 

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And so after 20 or 30 million 
years approximately, it's going 

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to be denser. 
And so it get dense enough to 

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start sinking back into the 
mantle cell. 

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Imagine to have a slab of metal 
or any dense material sinking 

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in, falling into honey. 
So the slab is sinking because 

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it's denser, but its motion is 
resisted by the viscosity of the

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mantle, almost like honey could 
resist a heavy object falling 

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into that. 
So the speed at which the 

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subduction zone go depends on 
two things, the density 

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constraints that is scaling with
the age of the literature and 

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the viscosity of the mantle. 
Now the slab is now attached to 

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the lidosphere and so for it 
sinks it has to bend over and 

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this require energy. 
So the bending resistance is a 

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big part of what control the 
dynamic of subduction. 

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So in simple way, a subduction 
zone is where a cold, cold and 

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dense lidosphere dive back into 
the mantle, driven by the 

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gravity and resisted by the 
viscosity and by plants trend. 

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I've said that subduction zones 
can last a long time. 

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How long are we? 
Talking, subduction is the 

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longest running tectonic process
on Earth, so it can last 

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millions or even hundreds of 
millions of years. 

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For example, the unden 
subduction zone where the Nazca 

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play now is sinking down below 
South America. 

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We know before it was the 
Farayam play, it's been 

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subducting for almost a couple 
of hundreds of million year. 

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And also where you have India 
colliding with Eurasia along 

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this big subduction zone, we 
know that the subduction was 

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more than hundreds of million 
years. 

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But here's the key. 
Subduction is unsteady. 

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It change its speed, even the 
way it happened can shift 

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dramatically and sometimes it's 
last for very few millions of 

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years. 
Can you categorize the various 

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ways in which subduction zones 
evolve? 

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Sure, subduction zone, a highly 
dynamic process and highly 

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unsteady. 
It's a 3D system, so a slab is 

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never fixed in one place. 
So slab don't just sink straight

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down into the mantle of gravity 
but they move also sideways or 

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laterally. 
The sideways motion is driven by

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play motion, mantle flow and the
force within the slab itself. 

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Now there is several way that 
the trench in the slab is 

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moving. 
For example, one is slab 

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rollback. 
So the slab move backward into 

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the mantle and we call it slab 
rollback. 

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And when the trench, which is 
the surface expression of 

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subduction, also move backward, 
it retreats toward the 

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subducting plate. 
The trench can also move forward

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or can be even stationary. 
So in forward motion, the slab 

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is advancing toward the upper 
plate. 

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Occasionally we can also have 
the case where the slab might 

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break off, twist or stop and so 
the subduction in this case can 

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shift to a new location, flip 
direction. 

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And this is a process could we 
call polarity reversal. 

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There are two important 
takeaways here. 

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First, the movement of the 
subduction zone, it's not steady

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but it change over time. 
And 2nd subduction zone and 

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never act alone, is never alone,
but interact with the 

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neighbourhood's lab. 
So the behaviour of one slab can

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be affected by another close by 
one. 

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It's many regions, there are 
several subduction zone next to 

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each other, and this can be for 
example in opposite direction, 

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outward or inward. 
So the interaction between the 

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slabs in this case became really
complicated. 

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Let's talk about each of these 
in turn. 

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Then. 
What causes slab rollback or 

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retreat of the trench? 
And when that happens, how does 

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that manifest in the surface 
geology? 

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This is a fascinating tectonic 
process that shapes some of the 

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most acted zone on Earth, so 
it's very important. 

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So what is that? 
A slab rollback happen when a 

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subducting plate sink into the 
mountain and start moving 

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backward. 
So at the surface, this goes the

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trench to retreat. 
So you should think like pulling

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a carpet down and back and the 
hedge move away from you as it 

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rolls up. 
And this is simply because the 

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slab is inclined toward the 
upper plate. 

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So if you're pulling down even 
the tendency will be to retreat.

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Now all subduction zone in 
theory should have the tendency 

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to Mcgrive backwards for this 
reason. 

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The problem is that one of the 
key feature that we see when the

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slab rollback is that you push 
the trench away from the upper 

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plate and so you create 
extension of formation, what we 

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call Becker Basin. 
When you say Becker Basin, 

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that's happening in front of the
subduction zone and how, how 

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does that work? 
So they're overriding plates, 

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stretches and even split apart 
creating a new ocean. 

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And there are several place 
where we can observe that. 

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For example, along the Tonga 
branch, you have the Low basin, 

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which is actually the fastest 
rollback area on the planet or 

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in the GNC, but also in the 
Sandwich just South of South 

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America. 
In the past, almost all the 

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Western Pacific underwent 
extension. 

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But there is something that is 
very interesting in the story. 

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When we start looking at the age
of this basin, we realize that 

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this tension stretching on the 
upper plate, which are reflected

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by the fact that you have the 
trench retreat, don't last 

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forever, but they're usually 
lasting for 10 or 20 million 

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year. 
So that means that the motion of

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the trench for some time was 
highly retreating and then stop 

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or slow down almost completely. 
So and after a pose of say few 

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millions of year is start again.
So this stop and go behaviour 

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sometimes happen three times in 
some region like along the 

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Ejuboni Mariana system. 
This is, I think, very 

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fascinating because it's giving 
us the opportunity to understand

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better the dynamic of the 
system. 

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If you wonder where the slab 
Robeck is happening right now, 

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then you can look at probably 
the Tonga is the best place, 

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which is one of the fastest. 
So you mentioned the Tonga 

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Trench and you also mentioned 
the Izu Bonin Trench. 

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Where is that? 
The Tonga Trench is the 

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Southwest Pacific and the Izu 
Bonin Mariana. 

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It's just South of Japan and 
then it's a very long feature 

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that is standing almost 
north-south. 

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So all this area, the western 
Pacific is bounded by the 

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subduction zone of the Pacific, 
which is one of the fastest 

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plate on Earth, underwent an 
enormous black carcass tension 

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between say 30 million year, 40 
million year and now is still 

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active. 
That is one of the most 

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spectacular evidence of lab 
rollback on Earth. 

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What happens when subduction 
zones do the opposite and they 

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advance? 
Why does that occur and how does

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that manifest on the surface? 
Well, this is only more 

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complicated to understand in 
some region again in the Izuboni

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Mariana, which is was retreating
for a long time and in the last 

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5 million years start advancing.
It's probably related to the 

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fact that you have a multiple 
subduction zone lining up side 

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by side and they are dipping on 
the same direction. 

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So the motion of one of the slab
can help pull the other forward 

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like a little train. 
If the one in front move and 

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it's pulling down the flipping 
slates, then it drags the other 

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along. 
And so in the last five million 

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year, the Izuboni Mariana for a 
long time was retreating, now 

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changes motion and start 
advancing. 

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Sorry, when you say dragging 
along, is it because it's next 

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to it laterally dragging it or 
is it in front of it? 

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Front of it, in front of it, and
this has been recognized long 

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time ago, but the effect of the 
front was lab, which is the 

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Lucas lab, which is retreating 
at the moment, is consuming the 

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plate between the two and then 
is kind of sucking the other 

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trench, which is incredible. 
And so you have a complete 

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reverse of moisture. 
So those labs are really 

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floating into the mount all 
laterally. 

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There are other extreme case of 
trench advance and those are, 

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for example, happening during 
continental collision. 

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One of the best example of it, 
it's not a subduction zone, it's

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a collisional zone. 
In this case, it's a continental

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lithosphere that is advancing 
toward the upper plate that 

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India is indenting into Asia, 
creating this enormous mountain 

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belt. 
So you got India crashing into 

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Asia, but at the same time the 
Australian plate is subducting 

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on the net from the southeast 
Java, Sumatra. 

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So this sideway or lateral 
subduction, combine it with the 

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mantle flow will push India 
frontward and crossing creation 

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of the largest mountain belt in 
the world. 

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So what does it look like at the
surface? 

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In trench advanced cases you 
often have intense crustal 

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deformation, uplift, 
compression. 

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You can have closure of Bayesian
that it's a power spool way to 

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having compression of force, 
very different from stretching 

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during rollback. 
So in short, trench advance is 

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less common than rollback, but 
when it does happen, it usually 

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means that the tonic system is 
changing completely and moving 

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from extension to compression. 
But it's also often caused by 

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the influence neighborhoods, lab
and Montal dynamics. 

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I'm sure in the real world it's 
a bit of an oversimplification 

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to say that subduction zones are
either retreating or advancing. 

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In his podcast episode, Laurent 
Jolivet describes some quite 

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complex motions, including 
toroidal ones in 3D. 

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Can you describe some of these 
more complicated motions? 

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Sure, I will try. 
Let's talk about what happened 

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in the mantle as his labs sink 
into it. 

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So as the slab dive into the 
mantle itself is flowing from 

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areas of high pressure toward 
areas of low pressure created by

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the slab itself. 
We usually break this mantle 

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motion in two main component. 
The first one we call the 

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poloidal component and just the 
vertical flow, the classical up 

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and down. 
But then in 3D we have this 

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other component, that is the 
toroidal component, that is the 

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horizontal zwiggling flow, which
tend to show up along the edge 

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of the slab. 
So when this toroidal flow 

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happened, if you're moving a 
spoon inside of a pot full of 

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honey, you can see around the 
edge of the spoon, you will see 

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the little vertex. 
And this is actually the kind of

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motion we are talking about and 
we are expecting to have into 

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the mantle. 
If there are slab windows, so 

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area where the slab is broken 
off, also a gap in the plate or 

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near the slab edge, the mantle 
has space to flow inside and 

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around the side. 
And this is creating the 

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toroidal flow. 
It's a 3D feature and what is 

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really fascinating is that this 
flow is not just deep into the 

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mantle, but we have effect on 
the surface and it LED, for 

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example, lateral deformation. 
For example, a large trice leaf 

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folds on that produce a large 
earthquake rock shifting 

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sideways, twisting or stretching
in a very unusual pattern. 

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So sometimes are very 
complicated to imagine when slab

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break into pieces or tear apart 
that slab is not a continuous 

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feature. 
This effect are specially very 

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pronounced. 
And so for example, Lauren was 

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mentioned in the Mediterranean, 
this is a case where the slab 

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are very small and so you have 
edges where this mantle is 

229
00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:12,160
flowing during trench rollback. 
And so you're pushing basically 

230
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,480
the material that is below the 
slab on the side. 

231
00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:19,240
And this is flowing over this 
abductance lab changing 

232
00:15:19,240 --> 00:15:21,400
completely also the composition 
of the mountain. 

233
00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:25,280
They had the Tongas lab. 
As we mentioned before, this is 

234
00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,840
an area where you really have a 
lot of toroidal fluid that's 

235
00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,480
been recognized nearby Samoa. 
Now, for example, you can have 

236
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,000
it in the Antilles or or for 
example, if you go at the edge 

237
00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,720
of the abductance lab below the 
Andes in Patagonia on the Drake 

238
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:43,360
Passage between Antarctica and 
the South America, we have a 

239
00:15:43,360 --> 00:15:46,600
slab break. 
And in this area we to have a 

240
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,280
big flow of Pacific mantle into 
different. 

241
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:54,240
So even if those flow are really
deep into the mantle, their 

242
00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,880
fingerprint on the surface are 
quite impressive. 

243
00:15:57,080 --> 00:16:01,200
And so understanding them help 
us to really piece together the 

244
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,000
big picture of the mantle 
circuit on the Earth. 

245
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,240
All that present day examples of
subduction zones that move 

246
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:13,880
laterally sideways or in a 
generally more complex fashion 

247
00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,720
than either forward or backward.
So yes, lateral motions lab is 

248
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:21,360
happening everywhere. 
Oliver subduction zone rally 

249
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:24,840
just sinks straight down and the
trench are never stationary. 

250
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,080
Really what makes things tricky 
is how the different part of the

251
00:16:29,080 --> 00:16:32,800
slab interacting with each other
with nearby slabs and reading 

252
00:16:32,800 --> 00:16:36,120
the motion of the trench gave us
the possibility to understand 

253
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:38,920
the slab dynamics. 
For example, one portion of the 

254
00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,960
slab is advancing while the 
other one is retreating, and 

255
00:16:41,960 --> 00:16:44,760
this created vortex and a 
complex dynamic in the 

256
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:46,640
overriding plate. 
For example, example, if you go 

257
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:50,600
to New Zealand, and we will 
discuss about that further on, 

258
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:54,240
then you go near the Alps, we 
have a strong collision of the 

259
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,000
plateau. 
But when you move northward, so 

260
00:16:57,000 --> 00:16:59,680
the trench here is 
transpressional and is advancing

261
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,880
a little bit. 
And if you move N, then you have

262
00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:05,079
a Becker region. 
So you move from compression to 

263
00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:09,040
extension on the upper plate and
the trench is more advancing or 

264
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,240
moving laterally to the South 
and is retreating to the north. 

265
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,040
The same picture is observed in 
other area like in the 

266
00:17:16,040 --> 00:17:19,839
Mediterranean for example, if 
you go in Greece from the Lanic 

267
00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:23,240
trench, which is retreating, you
move north or along the other 

268
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:27,079
the Attic plates say going to 
where Venice say, and below the 

269
00:17:27,079 --> 00:17:28,880
Dinarites, then you have 
compression. 

270
00:17:28,880 --> 00:17:31,960
So you're moving lateral from 
compression zone where the 

271
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:35,320
trench is stationary is 
advancing toward the South. 

272
00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,400
In the Lanic the trench is 
retreating very fast and 

273
00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,640
producing backpack extension. 
So the lateral slab motion 

274
00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:45,880
combined with interaction 
between adjacent slab and 

275
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:49,040
overriding play create a 
patchwork of tectonic setting 

276
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:54,200
that from mountain building to 
rifting and extension and so all

277
00:17:54,200 --> 00:17:57,240
connected on this 3D dynamic 
picture. 

278
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:02,560
I think the most surprising kind
of subduction zone evolution is 

279
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:06,120
when the polarity of the 
subduction reverses. 

280
00:18:06,520 --> 00:18:10,040
That is, a down going plate 
subducting in One Direction 

281
00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,520
flips to becoming the overriding
plate, with the formerly 

282
00:18:14,680 --> 00:18:18,320
overriding plate subducting 
under it in the opposite 

283
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:21,120
direction. 
What makes that happen? 

284
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,080
Well this is a quite common 
mechanism as well. 

285
00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:29,800
So it happen when you have a 
buoyant Fisher that is arriving 

286
00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:34,200
a trench and it doesn't want to 
subduct and so you stop 

287
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,920
subduction somehow. 
In this case what you can have 

288
00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,200
this is because I'm in a 
continental crust or a volcanic 

289
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:45,760
arc or a thick buoyant plateau 
is more buoyant and so it cannot

290
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:50,400
descend down into the mountain. 
And now if you stop subduction, 

291
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:52,680
then you probably is followed by
break off. 

292
00:18:52,960 --> 00:18:57,160
And so this lab is falling down 
and the subduction will end. 

293
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,960
Now if compressional forces keep
going in this case, then you 

294
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,720
have the restart of subduction 
in another place nearby. 

295
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,720
And one of the things that that 
we observe happening is that you

296
00:19:09,720 --> 00:19:13,440
can have a reversal of 
subduction now on the opposite 

297
00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:16,240
direction. 
So subduction will occur on the 

298
00:19:16,240 --> 00:19:18,680
other side and an opposite 
direction. 

299
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:23,520
So all this can occur in some 
millions of years, not very 

300
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,240
rapid because you have to stop 1
subduction and initiate another 

301
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,720
one. 
For example Banatu trench in the

302
00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:34,480
South Pacific. 
So it's Nordo Tonga now. 

303
00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,080
There was a a plateau arriving a
trench, it stopped subduction 

304
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,400
somehow. 
The subduction was of the 

305
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:44,840
Pacific that was going below the
Australian plate. 

306
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,840
Now after the subduction, the 
plateau arrived, we have a 

307
00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:52,120
reversal of subduction. 
Now the subduction is is of the 

308
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,560
Australian plate that go below 
the Pacific somehow and 

309
00:19:56,560 --> 00:19:59,600
formation of the Vanatu trench 
of the New Hebrides. 

310
00:20:00,280 --> 00:20:05,600
So this is a case where we now 
observe A lateral transition of 

311
00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:09,720
the reversal polarity from the 
Tonga that is plunging down 

312
00:20:09,720 --> 00:20:13,320
toward the West to the New 
Hebrides that is plunging down 

313
00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,240
to the northeast. 
And so it occurred because of 

314
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:19,400
polarity reversal. 
Now in other cases which is 

315
00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,960
pretty well known is Taiwan 
where you had the arrival of 

316
00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:27,080
volcanic arc which is the chalk,
the subduction zone and then you

317
00:20:27,080 --> 00:20:30,240
have the start of the new 
subduction zone of the South 

318
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:34,680
China Sea now. 
This reversal of polarity seems 

319
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,040
to have happened during the 
Caledonian originy. 

320
00:20:38,040 --> 00:20:42,040
Rob Strachan told us about that 
in his podcast episode. 

321
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,960
So it sounds from what you're 
saying that polarity reversal 

322
00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:50,320
actually is fairly common. 
Well, it is very common, maybe 

323
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,040
even more common than what we 
thought actually also in 

324
00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,680
Camchaca, for example, we had 
that also in the Caribbean, we 

325
00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:02,160
had that the subduction below 
what is now Mexico, Costa Rica, 

326
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,880
Panama was interrupted for and 
then arrival of the big plateau,

327
00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,920
which is the Caribbean plateau 
with the reversal of that. 

328
00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,560
Now the only problem we have is 
that during subduction, 

329
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:19,040
sometimes the formation of the 
upper plate is really intense 

330
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,800
and some of this element that 
tests for the holders, the 

331
00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,320
subduction polarity reversal can
be lost into this mechanism. 

332
00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:32,440
And so for us geologists now 
becoming a little bit difficult 

333
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:36,520
sometimes to unravel the history
in a very complete fashion. 

334
00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:42,760
And so the subsequent subduction
episode may obscure the phrases 

335
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:47,440
of the oldest one or process 
like that that may occur also 

336
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,640
rapidly like in 10, so 20 
million year in geological time 

337
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:53,640
scale. 
Sometimes this is a rapid 

338
00:21:53,640 --> 00:21:56,200
process. 
Another phenomenon that we see 

339
00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:00,840
quite often is the reversal of 
subduction polarity, not in 

340
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,560
time, but in space. 
In other words, as you follow 

341
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,960
the subduction zone along the 
surface, the subduction flips 

342
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:11,000
direction at a certain point. 
And I think you already just 

343
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,640
mentioned the example of this 
happening in New Zealand, where 

344
00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:20,240
to the north of New Zealand and 
in North Island, the Pacific 

345
00:22:20,240 --> 00:22:23,040
Plate is subducting westward 
under the Australian Plate. 

346
00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:28,480
And then as you go South and 
cross the Alpine Fault, the 

347
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,400
direction reverses with the 
Australian Plate subducting 

348
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:33,880
eastward under the Pacific 
Plate. 

349
00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:36,640
Do we understand how this 
happens? 

350
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:39,960
It sounds from what you were 
suggesting that these two 

351
00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:43,840
subduction zones used to be 
going in the same direction, but

352
00:22:43,840 --> 00:22:47,240
then one got blocked up and 
reversed. 

353
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:50,800
It's actually the same things. 
So it's triggered by the 

354
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:54,680
collision of a buoyant feature 
like oceanic plateau, a volcanic

355
00:22:54,680 --> 00:22:56,880
arc. 
Sometimes it just reflect the 

356
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,680
presence of a polygeographic 
distribution, so the way the 

357
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,960
oceanic basin were distributed 
or ranged in the past and this 

358
00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:08,240
set the stage for how and where 
subduction will start down 

359
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,640
later. 
One example is the transition 

360
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:14,720
from the Alps to the Apennine in
Europe where we observe a change

361
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,480
in subduction direction over a 
relatively short distance. 

362
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:20,600
So in the Apennine you have a 
subduction of the Adria plate 

363
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:25,120
which is belonging to Africa 
domain say below Eurasia. 

364
00:23:25,120 --> 00:23:27,800
Whereas when you go in the Alps 
is the other way around. 

365
00:23:27,800 --> 00:23:30,680
So the there is the Eurasia that
is subducting below. 

366
00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,880
Another great example as I said 
is Taiwan. 

367
00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,960
So in this East China Sea plate 
is being subducted back to the 

368
00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,080
north is the Philippine plate 
that's subducting under the UQ 

369
00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,560
trench. 
So another clear change in 

370
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:48,320
polarity along strike. 
And the Vanetto is the other 

371
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,760
example that I was mentioned 
before. 

372
00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:57,640
So it's the same process along 
strike and on time that drive 

373
00:23:57,640 --> 00:23:59,720
that. 
When we spoke earlier, you 

374
00:23:59,720 --> 00:24:04,480
mentioned slab anchoring and how
it plays a role in mountain 

375
00:24:04,480 --> 00:24:08,800
building and basically in 
freezing a subduction zone in 

376
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,240
place. 
Can you explain that? 

377
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:14,080
Oh yes, sure. 
This is one of my passion. 

378
00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,920
The health mantle is not uniform
in terms of viscosity. 

379
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,480
So that means that the deep 
layer, especially the one below 

380
00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:28,720
700 kilometers are more viscous 
than the other one, like 50 or 

381
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:33,280
30 times more viscous. 
So when a slab reached this 

382
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:35,760
depth, you can behave in two 
ways. 

383
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:41,880
Some of them do not penetrate 
and flatten out, other may 

384
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,240
penetrate. 
And this also depending on the 

385
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:49,160
way the slab arrive to hit this 
transition zone, whether it's 

386
00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,240
more vertical or not. 
So if this lab I enter into the 

387
00:24:54,240 --> 00:24:57,960
lower mantle, then it is more 
anchor, it cannot really move 

388
00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:01,680
because it's more strict by the 
more viscous layer. 

389
00:25:02,280 --> 00:25:04,320
Now there is also another 
effect. 

390
00:25:04,320 --> 00:25:07,800
Once it penetrate into the lower
mantle, then it trigger a very 

391
00:25:07,800 --> 00:25:11,920
large scale convection cell more
vigorous than what the one 

392
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,680
before in the upper mantle. 
So in this case the trench 

393
00:25:15,760 --> 00:25:19,440
became in stationary and could 
be stationary for some 10s of 

394
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,520
millions of year until something
new happened, maybe the slab 

395
00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,640
broken off. 
This is intriguing because a 

396
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:31,360
good example of this case and 
the impact of the anchoring on 

397
00:25:31,360 --> 00:25:35,600
the deformation on the upper 
plate we think is the case of 

398
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,280
the formation of the Undiscord 
era in South America. 

399
00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:43,520
So there at least in the 
northern part where the Andes go

400
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:47,600
up forming the Altiplano 4000 
meters elevation. 

401
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:51,800
So in this area, the trench of 
the Nazca plate remain 

402
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:55,200
relatively stationary. 
And we think this is occurring 

403
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:58,120
because the slab penetrated 
anchors deep into the mountain 

404
00:25:58,720 --> 00:26:01,760
and so you're resisting the 
motion of South America. 

405
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:05,840
So that the reason why you have 
the sort of collision where you 

406
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,800
create a mountain belt even if 
you don't have the collision 

407
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,720
between 2 continental plate, 
it's just because the trench is 

408
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:13,960
stationary and anchor deep into 
the mountain. 

409
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,600
Wow that's interesting. 
So instead of just creating a 

410
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:23,680
regular volcanic arc as most 
subduction zones do, we create a

411
00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:26,480
giant mountain chain? 
Because the slab is stuck in 

412
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:30,680
place continually generating 
volcanism in the same place over

413
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,080
10s or even hundreds of millions
of years. 

414
00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,400
So it's still subducting 
downwards, driving continued 

415
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:40,720
volcanism in the Andes and 
releasing volatiles. 

416
00:26:41,120 --> 00:26:45,160
Exactly if the motion of the 
velocity of that even further 

417
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:49,320
increase when the slab penetrate
into the lower mantle dioza, we 

418
00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:53,400
think that the slab penetrate 
after a period of stagnation 

419
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,880
where you accumulate a lot of 
dense material and then they may

420
00:26:57,160 --> 00:26:58,920
avalanche down into the lower 
mantle. 

421
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:02,680
In this case, you really can 
have also an acceleration and 

422
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,920
outplay motion. 
So that is super interesting. 

423
00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:10,560
This is ultimately in my mind 
the reason why you created 

424
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,880
everything under compression 
until you create a 

425
00:27:13,880 --> 00:27:16,360
supercontinent. 
But this is another story. 

426
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:22,800
What methods and observations do
you use in your research to 

427
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,680
better understand the dynamics 
of subduction zones? 

428
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,440
This is a great question. 
One of the major tool used for 

429
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,360
imagining subduction zone adapt 
obviously is a seismology. 

430
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,960
So seismology can give us the 
current structure of subduction 

431
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,600
zone, not only the distribution 
of earthquake that go down to 

432
00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:45,120
700 kilometre, but also using 
tomography. 

433
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,040
And so looking at the 
distribution of the cold 

434
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:52,320
material revealed by the path of
seismic way they go faster then 

435
00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:56,880
you can unravel the whole phase 
of subduction story. 

436
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:00,880
And there is also the active 
seismology where we're shooting 

437
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,920
and then we can record by 
seismometer and this is 

438
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,480
illuminating the upper part of 
the subduction zone. 

439
00:28:07,480 --> 00:28:13,320
So checking at the first tenths 
of 15 kilometers more in detail 

440
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:15,560
what happened into the 
subduction zone, You know, 

441
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:20,240
subduction zone release most of 
the seismic energy on Earth and 

442
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,800
it's causing big earthquake. 
Only subduction zone can have 

443
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,040
none of the other faults will 
never reach this kind of 

444
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,280
magnitude. 
Just because the geometry of 

445
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,840
subduction zone is so large that
you can start propagating the 

446
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,640
rupture for hundreds of 
kilometers with motion that are 

447
00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:40,960
10s of meters. 
We really spend a lot of energy 

448
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,560
and time to understand how they 
work and so for that we're 

449
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:49,000
installing seismic station on 
the sea, geodetic station on the

450
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,800
sea, and trying to images the 
mush on the plate with great 

451
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,400
accuracy. 
Now seductions are also doing 

452
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,400
something different. 
So not only seismology but 

453
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:04,120
geodesy, but also it's about 
recycling material and moving 

454
00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:07,560
rocks. 
So like a machine that takes 

455
00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:13,600
sediment, fluids and rock down 
to 10s of kilometers, and when 

456
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:17,000
you do that, they're releasing 
fluid and they're releasing 

457
00:29:17,000 --> 00:29:21,560
volatiles that are recycled 
backward into the volcanic arc. 

458
00:29:21,920 --> 00:29:26,320
And so petrology is a very 
important tool as well, because 

459
00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,000
with that you can understand 
much better what kind of 

460
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:34,720
material is subducting and how 
metamorphism reflect the 

461
00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:39,520
temperature of the subduction 
process at the interface between

462
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:41,640
the two plates. 
So is that because you're 

463
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,880
studying the detailed 
geochemistry of the material 

464
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,600
that comes out of the volcanoes 
in the volcanic arc? 

465
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,160
This will tell us a lot about 
the how much sediment are 

466
00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:55,560
subducting and then how much 
fluid are subducting. 

467
00:29:55,560 --> 00:29:59,880
And so this story will help us 
to understand the circuit that 

468
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,600
you can have at the recycle of 
element like carbon dioxide, 

469
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:07,800
metals and many others. 
So there's a whole budget of 

470
00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,160
chemical elements that you can 
trace it using chemistry on 

471
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,440
petrology of volcanic arc. 
But also sometimes the 

472
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:19,720
subduction interface down to 4 
and 40 and 30 kilometer is 

473
00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,720
exhumed later. 
And so when we go in the field 

474
00:30:22,720 --> 00:30:27,000
that we can look at that and 
reconstruct the pressure, the 

475
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:31,600
temperature and the budget of 
fluid that occur during the 

476
00:30:31,600 --> 00:30:33,600
motion on one plate below the 
other. 

477
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,160
And when you have all this 
information, then you can get 

478
00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:41,440
into modeling. 
Now modeling is a fundamental 

479
00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:47,280
tool that both experimental and 
numerical model to try to mimic 

480
00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,200
and understanding the dynamic. 
Once we have reconstructed the 

481
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,880
kinematic and reconstructing the
parameters controlling the 

482
00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,880
process, we can go to our 
machine, to our laboratory, 

483
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:01,720
reconstructing and understanding
what caused the motion of this 

484
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:05,640
lab into the mantle and what 
process are governing this lab 

485
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,680
dynamic. 
So it's a teamwork you have to 

486
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,680
combining observation, 
experiment and theory to build 

487
00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:15,120
that complete picture of a 
subduction zone. 

488
00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:18,640
And that's also what makes 
subduction zone so exciting, I 

489
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,560
think. 
The seismic data we've been 

490
00:31:21,560 --> 00:31:25,720
talking about so far gives us 
information about seismic wave 

491
00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:29,000
speeds, which is usually 
interpreted to reflect the 

492
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:31,920
temperature of the lithosphere 
and mantle traversed by the 

493
00:31:31,920 --> 00:31:35,520
seismic waves. 
But can we also use the 

494
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:40,840
anisotropy of the seismic waves,
IE the different speeds of 

495
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:45,040
differently polarized waves, to 
reveal some of the mantle flows 

496
00:31:45,040 --> 00:31:48,040
you've been telling us about 
around the subducting slab? 

497
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:50,440
No, absolutely. 
Seismic anisotropy is a 

498
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:53,640
fundamental tool actually, 
because seismic anisotropy 

499
00:31:53,640 --> 00:31:57,560
actually gave us an incremental 
of deformation. 

500
00:31:57,560 --> 00:32:00,680
So it's not only an 
instantaneous picture like the 

501
00:32:00,680 --> 00:32:03,960
one you can have with 
earthquake, but you can go back 

502
00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:08,160
in time because to have a strong
signal then you have to deform 

503
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,360
our mineral in a way to polarize
sufficiently the waves. 

504
00:32:12,920 --> 00:32:16,440
And so also for that, I think 
this is a very useful tool 

505
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,000
because this gave us a long term
signal. 

506
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,680
It's not an Eastern tennis one. 
What are you working on at the 

507
00:32:22,680 --> 00:32:25,760
moment? 
So Oliver, my driving research 

508
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,080
stimulus is understanding the 
coupling between deep mantle 

509
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:33,080
process and what we see at the 
surface, so the connection 

510
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:35,240
between surface process and the 
deep. 

511
00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:39,200
And I do that especially on 
subduction margin and active 

512
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,800
zones because when you look at 
working in active area, then you

513
00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:46,440
can actually use information 
from geophysics to better 

514
00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,200
constrain what is happening now.
And with that, you can go back 

515
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,520
in the past. 
So at the moment, looking close 

516
00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,760
at the formation around slab 
edges, for example, in Greece, 

517
00:32:57,760 --> 00:33:01,720
where the dynamics are very 
completely fascinating, moving 

518
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:05,920
from compression to extension, 
but also the Andes. 

519
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,920
We have installed some 10s of 
years ago an observatory along 

520
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,000
the Northern Chile in the 
Atacama desert, where we have a 

521
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:18,800
big seismic gap and we hope to 
be able to capture signal for 

522
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:22,760
the preparatory phase. 
But we also working in Panama, 

523
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:26,520
Colombia region, where the 
Caribbean meet the Nazca's labs.

524
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:28,840
So it's a highly 3 dimensional 
problem. 

525
00:33:29,440 --> 00:33:34,440
But in this context, we are 
really trying to understand how 

526
00:33:34,440 --> 00:33:38,520
subduction is modelling also on 
the surface and the landscape 

527
00:33:38,880 --> 00:33:43,360
and how this reflect on 
biodiversity for the crew and 

528
00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,080
and formation of the Panama 
strength dividing the Pacific 

529
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,960
and the Atlantic. 
Also we don't stop here because 

530
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:52,840
we're also working in 
collisional areas. 

531
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:57,040
So the region where we're 
working now is Pakistan in the 

532
00:33:57,040 --> 00:34:00,560
northern Pakistan. 
There in the Karakoram, we have 

533
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,240
two subduction zone in the past.
Now they are pretty close to 

534
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,640
each other in the region of 
Nanga Parbat. 

535
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:11,120
And in this area we can find the
trace of both subduction zone 

536
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:16,600
and try to understand what bring
this formation or this enormous 

537
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,760
mountain belt. 
I love mountains, so I'm moving 

538
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:21,719
region where there are high 
elevation. 

539
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:25,520
There you can see the surface 
expression of deep deformation 

540
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,280
and try understanding the best 
expression of subduction and 

541
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:33,159
collision on the surface. 
Claudia Fachena, thank you very 

542
00:34:33,159 --> 00:34:36,000
much. 
Oliver, thanks a lot for tuning 

543
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,280
in. 
To see pictures and 

544
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:43,639
illustrations that support this 
podcast, go to geologybytes.com 

545
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,560
where you'll also find a subject
matter index of all the 

546
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:48,040
episodes. 
There. 

547
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,639
You can also give me feedback 
which I welcome as well as sign 

548
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,080
U to get my emails about new 
eisodes.

