Welcome to episode 80 of the Under Season BBQ Show, and we
have a special episode for you. But before we get to that,
there's this. We're the boys and we're here
with barbecue and you're watching the under season BBQ
show, Woo. So that's the boys and Emily
from B4 Barbecue, and they did this week's intro, so big thanks
to them. Yeah, we've got a special guest
in the studio today, and you're a chef.
You're a pit master. You are the owner of
Interstellar Barbecue in Austin, TX.
You now have a Michelin star. And seemingly, you came out of
nowhere to rate as highly as #2 by Texas Monthly, which is
crazy. Yeah.
You seem to fully respect the traditional rules and the purity
of BBQ, but are prepared to break them too.
And you have led the way in pushing modern Texas BBQ beyond
brisket, beyond ribs, and beyond a standard sausage.
You launched into BBQ just before COVID and not only
survived, but used your skills as a chef with the medium of
barbecue and turned traditional barbecue on its head with dishes
like the Peach Tea pork belly, Molay baby back ribs, and
pastrami beef ribs. And I'm going to cut to the
chase right here. I've got a picture up of your
BBQ up on the screen. A picture is worth 1000 words.
Welcome to the the Under Season BBQ show.
John Bates. Well.
Thank you so much for having me and this is a dream come true.
So stoked. Awesome.
Now we've had plenty of pit masters asked to do the show and
we tell everybody exactly the same thing.
You've got to get yourself to Port Macquarie, where our studio
is located and you have made it from the other side of the
world. Have you found Port Macquarie?
It's a gorgeous coast, man. I'm so glad that we made the
time to come up here and we've spent the last few days
exploring the coast and the beaches and hanging out with the
folks. It's been really nice.
All right, we always start off the show with our dishes of the
week, but these are not dishes that were found online.
These are dishes that I found on your Facebook page.
And this looks absolutely sensational.
It's prime grade beef short rib skewers, cold smoked and seed
crispy on the plancha. Tell us more.
This is crazy. Well, this is a dish that kind
of came out of like the need to use that product in the
restaurants, kind of a big deal for us to make sure that we're
trying to use everything we can make sure the restaurant's
profitable. But same time I want to like
present food that I'm stoked and excited to eat.
So this was kind of like my play on the classic Texas fajita.
We take this trim that we get off our short ribs that we have
to use in some fashion, clean it up, shave it down really fine.
We marinate in a classic like Texas style fajita marinade and
then we cold smoke it very few hours.
We sear it real aggressively with the fire or the plancha to
get that nice crispiness to it and then put it on a homemade
flour tortilla with a red dunya, some onion, some lime cilantro.
Like, this dish is kind of like me in a nutshell, you know,
growing up in South Texas. It's awesome.
All right, next these are some sorghum glazed BBQ duck legs.
Duck. Yeah, duck.
I love duck. It's one of my favorite things
in the world to eat this dish again.
You know, a lot of what we do at the restaurant where we're all
about is like taking things that you can find in Texas.
You know, ducks are haunted. It's a game animal there, and
people hunt them all the time. I want to take things you can
find in Texas and put it back into BBQ.
So duck is one of my projects. We've served it in a variety of
ways, but I think this is the best version we've come up with
so far. And what we do is we meld, like
my background as a chef, we basically make duck on feet,
which is a cured duck that's cooked under fat.
And then we do a second cook on it where we run through the
smoker and we glaze it multiple times.
The sorghum sauce, I think it's like the perfect combination of
fat and sweet and smoke, kind of like the poultry version of our
pork belly. Wow it's awesome.
And duck takes smoke so well. Oh, it does.
Yeah, it's lovely. All right, Well, I've put you on
the spot now, and I've asked you for some dishes that you've
eaten in your life that have changed everything for you.
Right. So obviously, the position that
you're in, you're a foodie by nature.
Yeah. And there are certain times in
your life that you eat foods and they kind of change the way you
think about things. Yeah.
So I've asked you to highlight them now.
Big problem here, you don't take many photos.
Yeah, no, I'm terrible with that.
So I've had to put some photos up on the screen representative
of the places that you're talking about, just as a little
bit of a placeholder so we can see.
But this is Truth BBQ. What did it have such an impact
on you? What was it?
Well, you know, for most of us who love barbecue and pursue
BBQ, whether you're in the field cooking it or if you're just an
aficionado and you're on that trail looking for a great BBQ,
we've all had that like aha BBQ moment where we have that first
bite that just kind of changes it all for you.
For me, that was truth. The restaurant is in Brenham.
I was pulling through with my family and a little trip out to
go camping and I told the wife that it's like hey I've got to
stop and have some BBQ at this place and got to the door, no
line. Felt pretty fortunate and as
soon as I walked in I knew that I was in a much different kind
of BBQ restaurant. I could see from the sides that
they were. They were all made from scratch
and made with love. The Pickles were made in house.
They had these beautiful layer cakes.
Everything about it spoke to me as a a chef and a cook, but I
had never really ever cooked BBQ at that point.
But I just knew it was somewhere special.
Of course when I sat down and had my first bite of the brisket
pulled into a pork rib, you know, had some of the pulled
pork and the sausage, I just, I was blown away.
I was like, man, left that meal and got in the car and I told my
wife, you know, and at the time, I never thought I would open up
a BBQ restaurant, but I told her, I said, hey, if I ever
opened up a BBQ restaurant, that's the place.
Like that's the one we need to try to be like.
That needs to be the standard. That's the guy that we need to
make sure if we ever get in that game, we need to be on that
guy's level. And was amazing, changed my
life. Unreal.
There's something about the first time that you tried good
BBQ that just knocks you for six.
Oh yeah, for sure. I mean, and I'm a native born
Texan. Everything in Texas revolves
around BBQ or Tex Mex. You know, every family function,
every wedding, graduation, Kingston, Yetta, Sweet 16,
these, all these events bring BBQ to the family.
So it's a big deal for us. I mean, like we don't just, you
know, have BBQ because we enjoy it.
You have BBQ because that's just the culture.
So when you have something that changes it for you, that's
really insightful and can like really inspire a lot of like
creativity. It was probably about 10 years
ago. Would that be about right?
Yeah. I mean, gosh, what are we now,
26? Yeah.
No, this is probably, you have to say 10 or 11 years ago at
this time, just before he opened up in Houston.
He just, I think he'd made the list for the first time when
when this when I had my first visit there.
Because for me, barbecue in Texas is an institution and it
was always good, but at some point, which is probably when
you walk through the doors at Truth, it became great.
Yeah. I mean, I think, you know, Aaron
Franklin kind of laid the groundwork for what Leo did, a
truth what we're doing here at Interstellar.
But yeah, I think that was kind of that moment about 11-12 years
ago when BBQ really started to like, take that third evolution
because I like to think of barbecue in three waves, you
know, traditional old school BBQ.
I kind of think Aaron Franklin was his own wave, you know, kind
of changed the game. And what you're seeing now I
often refer to as like that third wave of barbecue.
And it felt like that happened about 12 years ago.
Yep. All right, moving on, The French
Laundry. Yeah, in Huntville, California.
Tell us about this. I mean, this is an iconic place,
but how did this change the game for you?
As a young chef, this guy was my hero.
Like I followed this guy from afar.
I couldn't ever, you know, go down the road of a traditional
chef and like, you know, go work somewhere for free and peel, you
know, peas and plate them up and, you know, waste a year, 2
years of your life working for free to get this knowledge and,
and move on. So what I did is I just read
cookbooks, voraciously tested recipes from them.
And at that point when I was a young chef, my favorite cookbook
and one of my favorite cookbooks still is the French Laundry
cookbook. I just was so enamored with it.
And when I was younger, and this was before I had my first child,
it's probably one of our first times we ever had a chance to
vacation, go anywhere. State of all my money got
reservations to the French Laundry, something ridiculous
like 90 days before the actual seating and shut up for dinner.
And it was just, it was really moving for me because the food
was everything I hoped it would be.
It was fantastic. The the technical skill, the
presentation, the flavors, and the moment that I enjoyed the
most about that meal was when I actually met Chef Keller and
went back to the kitchen. Total fanboy, said hello to him
and he was so polite and kind and humble and talked to me for
a few minutes about my career and where I was at as a chef.
And that really stuck with me. The fact that you could make
beautiful, amazing food and you could also still be a nice
person about it. So next, I'm not even going to
try and pronounce this one, but it's in Florence, Italy.
Yeah, now I'm going to butcher this one too.
Trattoria del osti Chiana. I don't know.
They'll never trust me for for pronunciation on anything.
But what I do know is that one of the best steaks I've had in
my life in Florence, we were fortunate enough to be there to
cook for a catering and a wedding.
And one of my goals why we were there is to track down and have
one of these iconic steaks. You know, they're this area is
very much known for this steak. It's a traditional food that
have been serving for who knows, maybe thousands of years.
So track it down, get my reservation, have this steak.
And for me, it just was the epitome of like just great
cooking. It's like just a few simple
ingredients executed really well, great meat, cooked to the
right tenderness, the right doneness.
It was special. And to this day, I still think
about that steak because it just, it really moved me.
I have a similar experience just outside of the Amalfi Coast.
It was a pizza joint of all places but they had that exact
same steak cooking over the charcoal and it was an option
that they sold in the restaurant.
And to this day that's the best steak I've ever had.
And if you look at it, it's not highly marbled, it's not a non
Waggu score, but for whatever reason the flavour that it
produces. And in Australia we call that
cut the T-bone. But I've been to a lot of steak
places since, and I can't recreate that experience that I
had in Italy of eating that particular cut of meat well.
It's like, you know, there, there are some things that are
just perfect in certain areas, whether it's like bagels in New
York, barbecue in Texas, ramen and Tokyo.
This steak is perfect in that region.
The cattle, the herbs, the oil, the, the culture around cooking
it. Everything has come together to
make something unique that's special.
Yeah. You got to go there to go 1.
Yeah, I loved it too. All right.
And this is an actual time that you took a photo, so.
You know, I've gotten to the habit of keeping my phone in my
pocket when I go out for meals, at least for the last five or
six years. And I want to live in the
moment. I want to enjoy the food.
I want to be there with friends, and I want to be with family.
And I don't want to get, like, tied up and trying to take a
perfect picture. But yeah, this one, I couldn't
help myself. I had to, you know, borderline
passable photo and a little video.
All right, let's move on. I've put you on the spot again
and I've asked you for your top five people in BBQ today, OK?
You ready? Yep.
All right, Miss Tootsie. Bit of an eyebrow now.
Yeah, no, I really don't have to explain that one.
But I think she's fantastic. I love the culture that she
brings to barbecue. A little bit of attitude when
you get in her way and she's cooking chicken and she's got
things to do. And she just really speaks of
like barbecue in Texas. I mean, easy one to point out.
She would have to be the most famous face in BBQ, I would say.
And if you were to, you know, ChatGPT, an image of a pit
master, it'd never come up with something like Tootsie, right?
But the fact that she's earned so much respect from pretty much
universally everybody. And she is a hard worker even to
this day. Her resilience, the style of BBQ
that she does, her attitude and she's another person that has
time for everybody. Yeah, she does.
She'll take a photo, she'll have a little chat with you and she's
Justin harass cooking at the same time.
Yeah, yeah. Lot of love, lot of respect and
she's got a great sort of team of people around her too.
And I I think the world about. Yeah, Now they're amazing.
The whole team over there, Clay and Carrie and Miss Tootsie,
they have created something truly special there.
And I mean, she uses everything that I think Texas should be,
you know, hard working, dedication to her craft.
She's friendly. She's getting a little bit of
sass. She just does it every day in,
day out. She does this because she loves
it. This is not like, you know,
she's not doing this because she's, like, crushing it.
I mean, I'm sure she's doing better than I am, but, you know,
she does it for the love. And I really respect that a lot.
Yeah. OK, next, the Mueller family.
Oh yeah. And you didn't say a specific
Mueller, you said the family. Yeah, no, I think they're hugely
important, Texas BBQ. I have a ton of respect for
Bobby and Wayne and you know, John and Leanne, they all have
an imprint on what I'm doing, affected very much what I'm
doing nowadays. So I think it's really important
to understand your history and your roots about your food and
your cuisine and, and respect that because it's important
because you can't, you can't elevate your food if you don't
know where it's coming from, if you don't know what's that
about. And I think these guys really,
you know, epitomize the history of Texas BBQ done the right way
in a small town. That building's got tons of
patina. I mean, these guys are legends
and Texas barbecue. And if you're not familiar with
them, they are kind of like the Kennedys of the BBQ world.
It's like anything they touch, you know it's going to be
probably pretty amazing or, or it's going to be moving.
Yeah, and all of the offspring have gone off to do their own
things and had success. It's a a long story that we
won't go into, but. Too much there.
There's a lot of history there and there's a lot of water under
the bridge, but Bobby for me was old school BBQ through and
through. Yep.
But Wayne? Wayne bridges the gap between
old school barbecue and new school BBQ for me from the first
generation or the 1st wave and the second wave.
He's stuck in a world where he wants to keep the legacy of his
father alive, and at the same time there he wants to keep the
BBQ as good as it can be, but sticking to traditional roots.
And in many ways he is holding the Fort.
I feel almost single handedly for still representing
traditional American BBQ the way it was, but with a modern sort
of spin to it. But he's keeping it the way it
was. Yeah, now, I mean, he walks a
fine line. He's got so much tradition and
so much history to live up to, but yet he's got to make sure
that his food remains means relevant.
The restaurant remains relevant. I think he does it in a really
way that's very classy and with a lot of respect to the food.
And you know, he's not going to, he's not the guy who's going to
show up with like a bowl of with some brisket in it and nor
should he. But he does make a just a mean
ass beef rib and everything about the restaurant feels
really relevant even though the style of cooking is still very
traditional. Yeah, if someone said to me,
take me to a BBQ restaurant that epitomizes Texas barbecue and
take me to 1, that's where I'm going.
Yeah, now he's definitely. It's like one or two
restaurants, and that's probably my choice too.
Next, Daniel Belude. Not really a BBQ guy.
No, no. I mean I kind of took some
liberty with the list here. I mean, it was, I felt like it
was like to me, the people that influenced me the most, like
going into BBQ people for me that were the most influential
people in my life is now a chef and, and a BBQ man, French
strain chef, New York restaurants, a guy that I
followed and cooked through his book cookbooks, you know, like
just every day I could to learn as much as possible.
And what I always respected about him was the dedication to
his craft, to the ingredients. And even though he was serving
food that was very, you know, high end fancy fine dining, it
still spoke to me in a way where it's like, but it was still
accessible even for a guy in the middle of Texas who had never
been to New York, never been to a French restaurant.
But I loved his food. And for me, he's always been a
big influence for me as a cook and a chef.
And you know that for me means it's an influence on my BBQ all.
Right in the same vein, Thomas Keller.
Yep, same way. I mean, I mentioned him earlier,
we talked about cooking through his cookbook and again, the
importance of ingredients, the importance of technique, on the
importance of building a team and respecting the ingredients.
I feel like these are all things that are really important in
BBQ, especially nowadays. And for me, that was my guiding
light. Like chef below.
They were these, you know, 2 chefs that even though I never
met them, never cooked with them, they were inspirations for
me. Yeah, I think there's a lot to
be said for people like him that take the time to talk to young
chefs. Yeah, that 2 minutes, I mean,
you've got a Michelin star now and that two minutes might have
been the difference. It could have been, yeah.
They'll give you that motivation to say, hey, you know, these
people are approachable. I can learn from them.
They're prepared to give me my time.
Don't know if they realize how important those moments are for,
you know, fans or chefs. Well, you don't realize that as
a person, you know, and not even in the food world, but just as a
in this world as a human, you have that effect on people as
you travel through this life and how you treat them with a little
bit of kindness. Giving them a moment of your
time answering a question thoughtfully and honestly
instead of being smart ass or sarcastic about it or not even
giving them time to answer a question.
You have a chance to really affect people and it's amazing.
You don't know what's going to happen, but you do can you can
make a big difference in this world.
All right, next, it's your dad. Oh, yeah, my pops love him for
me. My dad was really the guide in
life for me as a business person and a chef and a cook in a lot
of ways because he's just Texas boy, grew up in West of San
Antonio in a small town called Kanipa, New Valley.
My buddy Ernie's from New Valley.
So we connect over that a little bit.
You know, he was the kind of guy that if he wanted something in
life, he had to do it, build his own cars, remodel his own house.
If there was foundation work to be done.
I was digging the holes and he was playing the stuff behind it.
He was the kind of guy that always worked really, really
hard on things. But he came home every night,
took care of the family, sat down to dinner with us.
And he's always been somebody who's been like a guiding light
for me as well. It's like I want to work hard.
I want to put my heart into it, come home, have dinner with my
family. You know, I want to be like my
dad. So I'm getting pretty close.
Could he cook BBQ? He cooked a pretty good steak.
He didn't cook much BBQ. All right, moving on.
Top five BBQ joints. Yes, now this is your chance to
embrace your inner BBQ critic, and I've asked you to pick your
top five places that you would suggest if you had to put a list
together. OK, you've featured on a lot of
other lists, but this is your opportunity to create your own
top five BBQ joints. Yep. #1 again.
Truth BBQ. Yeah, I mean, my top three in
Texas BBQ is pretty interchangeable on any giving
day. I think any of these guys could
be doing some of the best barbecue in the state of Texas.
But truth is always one of the ones that I mentioned when
people ask me for my top five. They're making their own
products now. Oh yeah.
So they don't mess around. They're serious business.
And Leo comes from a restaurant family.
He's not the first one in the family to do this.
So he's seasoned. He knows how to run a
restaurant. He knows how to do it really
well. He learned from his family.
So yeah, we're good. Exceptional.
Yeah. Cadillac Barbecue in Dallas, TX.
Yeah, so Cadillac, I love these guys.
I love what they do. They were one of the first
places that I know of that was using like a Wagyu crossbreed or
a Texas Wagyu for their BBQ. They also do this really great
barbecued Bologna. They make this house made
Bologna with the Wagyu trim for it.
I think it's just an excellent restaurant.
I love the vibe, I love the feel, I love the food.
They do a great job. They also do whole hog there,
which one of the few places in Texas that do it and do it
really well. So yeah, everything about them I
really enjoy. I like their food and I think
it's a great experience. I highly recommend them. 2M
Smokehouse. Yeah, this one's in San Antonio,
if I believe. Yeah, yeah, No, this is the kind
of BBQ restaurant that I wish I had in Corpus when I was growing
up. It's kind of like the beautiful
fusion of like Texas and Tex Mex cuisine.
They do this really great sausage that's got like roasted
Serrano and Oaxaca cheese in it. Just dynamite.
They do a Mac and cheese with crushed chicharron on top.
Just everything they do really speaks of like barbecue in San
Antonio. When I'm looking for that
combination of things that make me feel good, when I'm, when I
want to go home, when I've been traveling, when I eat, get back
and like do the things I love and eat the things I love.
I always want barbecue and I always want Tex Mex.
And here I can get them both at the same time.
Perfect. OK, next brat.
Yeah, You know, I've been blessed.
We've been able to travel all over the world, get to try other
types of BBQ. I think it's really important
that you get out of your comfort zone and you get out of the the
standard model, like the low and slow when it comes to what you
know, what BBQ is for me here, all live fire cooked restaurant.
It's in London. They're cooking their breads in
a wood fired oven. They're cooking their meats hot
and fast. They're hanging some of the
proteins up high where you can cook low and slow over the the
heat and the smoke and then finish it on the fire.
It's definitely not a Texas style BBQ restaurant, but I
think it's got all the right DNA and I think it's a fantastic
restaurant. OK, this is one that me and you
both share our love for, and it's Fazenda Chirascada.
It's a place that I also love in Sao Paulo, in Brazil.
Yeah, I think that may have been the time I've met you.
First was in churrescada in Brazil, in Sao Paulo.
I had never been to a proper churrescada, and when I got to
this place, I was immediately blown away.
I mean, it's like the size of a football field.
It's freaking huge. And every table was full of
Brazilians just chowing down and crushing, you know, all forms of
beef available to you. The one, the dish that really
like spoke to me when we were here and we had this aside from
this amazing like cheese bread they served, which is, you know,
not BBQ. It's still really good.
Was the, the copine, the, the, the Brahma hump that they
cooked. And when they cut into it and I
looked at it, I'd never had it before.
You know, it's like, I almost thought it was like moist
brisket and was quickly corrected by the Brazilians at
the table that it was not brisket.
But yeah, for me, it was one of those like, restaurants moments,
very similar to the early restaurants we talked about that
was like, wow, this is like, completely different and just so
amazing. And again, you know, there are
different ways to cook meat with fire.
The original BBQ, you know, they're not traditional in the
sense of like, they're not like Texas BBQ, but they're doing
great work. They're cooking great things and
for me this is like, you know, the pity of me of like Brazilian
BBQ. Yeah, the part that really
impressed me is I've been to a lot of BBQ joints in Texas and
America, and I've been to a lot of BBQ joints in Australia.
But when I walked in here, it felt like there was 1000 seats.
Yeah, they were cooking. There was fucking tables and
chairs everywhere and people were partying and having fun and
there was families and people. But the food was exceptional.
They were pumping it out at scale and the I hadn't seen
anything that big. No, I haven't seen.
I didn't. I didn't know you could do a
restaurant that big. I mean, for Christ sakes, they
sell Dodge trucks and I think Harleys there too.
I mean they do everything. But yeah, the the love for food
and family and like celebration that you find in Brazil, it's
infectious. And that restaurant was just a
small bit of it. Yeah, it blew my mind.
They had their own dry aging butcher shop.
Not a dry aging cabinet, a butcher shop.
Yeah. And then they had their own
stage where they had music and they've got bars, huge, big open
fire cooking area. They're doing low and slow at
the back on big offset pits. It's all set in what I would say
is like a really old homestead. So they use part of the outside
and the inside. They had their own merchandise.
It blew my mind. It was everything they they were
firing all cylinders. All right, let's move on.
Travel events and experiences. You've been very fortunate, as
have I, to travel around the world with your love of BBQ.
We're not moving too far away because this is Traskara.
It's a festival that you attended as a guest chef and you
cooked there and it's probably one of the coolest events I've
ever been to, and maybe even you too.
Oh yeah, no, it's up there. When people ask me about food
events, my favorite food events, this is always one of a couple
that I mentioned. To be honest, it was my first
time travelling out of the United States.
Wow, I mean, unless you count hopping the border in Mexico to
go to Madam Morris and, you know, hang out for the day.
But this is my first like real international trip.
BBQ helped me get there and I just was immensely impressed
with everything. The commitment that the
Brazilian chefs have for this event.
You can see that it is very important the displays, the
amount of ingredients and techniques they bring.
It's like a it's like a carnival of food and it's just, it's such
a blast. It's wild.
And while you were there, someone built a pit for you.
Yes, this is Mario, he shed at my restaurant in Texas one day.
It was probably about six years ago and I was cooking, you know,
I think I was on the brisket cooked.
So I was cooking in the afternoon, working into the
evening. He just starts to pepper me with
questions about what I like about my BBQ pit, what I not
like about my BBQ pit. What would I do differently?
Talk to me about the thermodynamics and the flow.
And I was like, who is this guy? But we chatted for about an hour
and then, you know, basically I was like, hey, you know, I've
got to get back to doing other things.
It's really great chatting with you.
I thought I'd never see him again.
I get invited to Truscotta and then the first, one of the first
people that reach out to me is Mario.
And he's like, hey, I would love to build you a BBQ pit.
And I was like, no, that's ridiculous.
Can't do that. But he insisted.
He really wanted the opportunity to show his work in, you know,
one of the premier events in Brazil.
He built me a BBQ pit. He built these two for Ernie,
for Burbine and so we were cooking side by side.
Ernie had these, you know, this dual 350 setup or 250 setup and
then I had 1000 gallon and it was pretty amazing.
Yeah, I just remember when he rolled in with these pits, they
were unlike anything I've ever seen because the firebox was
almost level with the chamber. Yeah, yeah.
He's just, you know, he's a welding engineer.
He's a trained engineer and welder, and he thinks
differently about how he puts his stuff together.
And I was just super impressed. I mean, that's the first 1000
gallon pit he built and the flow and the consistency on it
shockingly good. And then what was really funny
too is like, nobody had seen anything like this, I think, at
Churroscotto before. And people were just like, they
were going nuts over it. They couldn't believe how big
and massive. And I think one guy rolled to
me. He's like, hey mate, you know,
you can cook a whole man in there.
I said, yeah, probably. He's like, no, really.
And then he pulls up his phone and he shows me a picture of
himself. He had climbed into the BBQ bit
in the middle of the night and had his boys take a picture of
him. It was, it was pretty funny.
His name is RAF and he may or may not have been on our crew.
Oh. Yeah, you, you were guys are
responsible for that. He got in there clumsy.
There was 2 two of us in there. I wasn't in there, but there was
2 Australians in there in that pit to prove how big it was and
it was a beautiful pit. And then somehow you got it back
to Texas. Yeah, no, I loved it.
And you know, The funny thing is, like after the event, Maria
was like, do you want this pit? I was like, well, I can't, like,
check this, you know, he says, well, I don't have anywhere to
store it. And he's like, OK, well, let's
see what we can figure out. Let me get back home and let's
see if we can figure out the myriad of, like, traps and
things that it takes to ship internationally.
And yeah, so we had it boxed up and sent to the Port of Houston
and I picked it up. So cool, and it's still at the
restaurant today. Oh yeah, it's a huge part of the
restaurant. It was our third BBQ pit.
It was much needed on the daily basis.
My Boy War dog usually cooks on the true and it runs a lot of
our pork belly, our sausages, some of our lamb shoulders.
Love our R&D stuff. Goes through this BBQ pit.
OK, next you took over the electric at the Ned and you
brought your BBQ to London and you had a month of sold out
dinners. Yeah, I was crazy.
Yeah. I didn't know what to expect.
I got this e-mail in my inbox and it looked kind of sketchy,
you know, like, hey, bring your restaurant to London.
I'm like, all right, this is a scam.
But I was intrigued enough to at least set up the call, and it
was probably one of the best decisions I've ever made.
The team there at the Ned, super committed to make the vision
happen. Didn't say no to anything, gave
me all the people that we need. They didn't worry about the
budget. It was like, if we need to bring
in a BBQ pit, we'll bring in a BBQ pit.
And so yeah, they were super supportive.
And it was just really surreal because we sold out a month of
dinners and, and lunches, all of them in a matter of like, I
don't know, 96 hours. It was pretty crazy.
The, the Brits are mad for BBQ right now that it's a thing,
it's a movement in the UK. And it was really nice to be a
part of it, kind of throw our hat in the ring and cook some
BBQ for folks. And it was pretty surreal
because it's a really nice hotel.
I mean, it's, you know, it's a nice place.
And one of the many questions I had is like, So what do you
think about cooking barbecue in such a nice restaurant?
It's like, well, it feels a little different, but I think
we've done a good job. But yeah, it was a lot of fun.
Really amazing. It's crazy how in a very short
amount of time England has really jumped on the BBQ
bandwagon because they kind of got into it at around about the
same time Australia did. OK, it seemed like it really
took off in Australia from the get go, but there was a lot of
restaurants that started in the UK and in London specifically
that it didn't last. I don't think, I don't think the
Brits knew what BBQ was, but more recently they're crushing
it over there. Yeah, I mean, you get, you got
guys that have figured it out, they've cracked the nut, they've
come to Texas, they've found the supply chain.
And I think that was probably the biggest like thing that was
holding them back was like the grass fed beef in England.
It's great for a steak, terrible for BBQ.
Yeah. So finding the right beef,
getting access to it, I think has really helped move it along
quite a bit. All right, lastly, cooking your
childhood food in ABBA Dubai at the Michelin Guide Food
Festival. Yeah, International.
Again, like surreal moments. I mean, BBQ has taken me so many
places that I never would have expected.
All I wanted to do is pay my bills and cook something that I
love. This opened up the doors to
traveling halfway across the world and cooking barbecue and
Abu Dhabi, which just completely surreal put on by the Michelin
Guide. They brought us over there and
you know, there were no proper BBQ pits.
So for this one, I really leaned into like cooking food for my
childhood, leaned heavily into like Tex Mex flavors and quick
cooking things, direct heat cooking things.
And it was just such a pleasure. It was like really nice to see
people's reactions to the fact that like this is the white guy
from Texas in Abu Dhabi cooking barbecue and like, why are you
here? And I was like, well, they
invited me and that just started the conversation.
And it often led to about like, where we had connections over
food and culture and just real pleasure.
Awesome. And these are some of the dishes
what were. They So this is a short rib.
I want a short rib. I'm sorry.
It's a flanking rib that we cold smoked in advance before the
events start every day. Finished it hot and fast over an
ironwood fire and then glazed it with my Texas classic BBQ sauce.
Some pickled white onion, a little bit of sesame seed on
there. Cooked just a slightly over
medium rare so it's still tender but smoky.
Really, really nice over here. We did a little day, which is a
childhood favorite of mine. You know, corn on the cob or
Esquite when it's in the cup with dried chilies and cilantro
and onion and pumpkin seed and cut the hot cheese.
A little bit of South Texas and Abu Dhabi.
Very cool. All right, bucket list.
You've done a lot of things already.
Yeah, but there's a lot of things to do.
Oh, yeah. I've asked you for the number
one thing on your bucket list. And what you've told me is it is
a restaurant in Singapore called Burnt Ends.
And the chef's name there is an Australian, by the way, David
Pint. Yeah.
One of those restaurants I just like got a knock off the list.
I've been blessed to to travel and have food in different parts
of the world and I really want to try his version of, you know,
Australian barbecue and something as foreign and exotic
as Singapore. To me that just sounds like an
amazing time and I'm very much hope that I have the opportunity
to eat there one day. It would be great.
He's got 2 restaurants over in Singapore and I want to say I
have a tattoo of the exact cow that is on the front door of one
of those restaurants. But this is his flagship here
and I would say I'm going to go on the record here and say this
is the best fit out of a BBQ slash live fire restaurant
anywhere in the world. Wow, yeah, I mean, you're can't
wait to experience it as well. He also probably has one of the
coolest BBQ cookbooks he's ever done.
It's a monster and I'm yet to get my hand on it, but it looks
absolutely awesome. A good friend of mine, Adam
Robert, has got a signed copy and it looks phenomenal.
Yeah, no, I actually was able to get a copy of it sent to me.
It's a really nice read. It's really well put together.
You can tell that the book really represents, I think
represents what he's trying to do there at the restaurant,
which is what a good cookbook should do.
It should feel like an extension of the restaurant in the chef.
Kind of starting to think there are now chefs that are super
talented that are enamoured by the fire and the flame and
barbecue and smoke and those sorts of techniques.
Then you've got BBQ people that are all about the fire and the
smoke and BBQ techniques that are enamoured by a chef's
precision and ability to add flavours and spices and
ingredients and really push the boundaries, and those two things
are starting to come together. Yeah, I think it's a beautiful
time for for all things barbecue and live fire cooking is because
it's reaching the level of respect that, you know, Michelin
is like giving, you know, stars to live fire restaurants and a
BBQ restaurants. And I think the cuisine is
really starting to get the respect that it deserves.
So yeah, it's a beautiful time to be in BBQ on live fire.
Yep. All right, let's move on to some
talking points and maybe some serious stuff.
Oh. No, don't get serious on me,
everybody. The state of Texas BBQ.
So it's a bit of a worry right now because the menus of Texas
barbecues are generally very protein focused and they're all
based on weight and price per weight.
It's not a really fun time to be in a traditional Texas BBQ
restaurant selling meat by the weight because meat is expensive
as it's ever been. It is.
People are very reluctant to pay more.
What's the tipping point here? What's going to happen?
I don't know. I'm, I'm very worried about it
myself. You know, BBQ was originally
basically everyday working man's food.
It wasn't expensive. It wasn't, you weren't going to
break the bank if you were to go have dinner or go have lunch at
a BBQ restaurant. But with the cost of goods and
services and the scarcity of supplies every week, every
month, every year, our costs to do business and barbecue in
Texas just goes up. It is hard.
We do our best, you know, I should be really charging like 3
times as much as I charge for brisket if I was going to try to
make any money on brisket. So you have to figure out how to
make money in other parts of the restaurant.
So it's very challenging. It's a tough time, but you know,
when it gets hard, it's often good to look in words and take
those challenges and figure out ways to make those advantages.
And I think the good operators in the long run will be able to
take, you know, what is a tougher moment, hopefully, and
then come up with some things that you meet the moment and
then also make them excel, whether it's like cooking less
extensive proteins like chicken or focusing on vegetables, God
forbid vegetables. But, you know, something like
that. I think there are ways to work
around it. But yeah, it's been tough and
it's hard. And you're not seeing as many
restaurants open up right now because of it.
Yeah, and we're starting to lose a few good ones too.
But what I would say is since COVID, meat prices have almost
doubled, yes. And I don't think they're done
yet. I feel like I've gone into BBQ
at the absolute worst time in the history of man to open up a
BBQ restaurant because pre COVID.
I mean I was paying 3 bucks a pound and now I'm lucky if I see
anything less than 6. And that's when in, you know,
things are good. Like there's plenty of cows.
It's cool. It's not the high season like
once we get into the summer those numbers creep up to 7-8
dollars a pound. It's a worldwide thing, too.
Anyway, that's not just Texas. We're all dealing with it.
But you notice it more in Texas because there's just so much
love for barbecue and the way the the cuisine is built, being
so protein heavy, people don't want to get a slice of brisket.
They want to get like half the brisket.
It's expensive. And look, I don't really know
the economics or the science or the maths or whatever you want
to call it, but the rest of the world has also fallen in love
with barbecue. And whether you're in Sweden or
China or Japan, they're buying American beef, Australian beef,
Brazilian beef, and there's only so much of it.
It's not like we've grown the supply that much.
No, no, no. It's a finite resource.
I mean, you can only go so many cattle in an area and the demand
it just, it's sensation. It's like, you know, it's
tougher and tougher. Yeah, I don't know where it will
end, but I really do hope that people get out there and support
their local pit master and understand what they're dealing
with and stop kind of sticking their head in the sand and
going, oh, it's too expensive. Well, it's expensive for you
guys, but on it as well. Yeah, I mean, as a consumer, the
best thing you can do is come into the restaurant and support
that restaurant and don't like, give them a hard time because
they're charging what they need to pay their bills.
If you love these places, you want them to exist, you want
them to stick around, you have to let them charge what they
need for that food in order to so they can't be around.
I mean, none of these guys are like rolling in like big piles
of cash back home. They're just trying to figure
out how to, like, keep their staff, keep them, you know, well
employed, hopefully give them some health insurance.
So, yeah, I mean, go in, you know, and buy some barbecue.
And then, you know, when you go to the restaurant, you know,
tell them you're on a budget and say, hey, I need to spend 50
bucks. What's the best way I can spend
50 bucks here? You know, trust them to give you
a great experience. And then when you're done, you
know, go out there and sing their praises.
And if you're not happy, the best thing you can do is just
tell them instead of running like Yelp or Google dropping A1
star review because you got your feelings heard about, you know,
the rib was maybe a little tougher than you thought it
should be. Like if you tell them they could
replace it for you. Yeah, I agree.
And I think it's the most heartbreaking thing in a
restaurant to put your best foot forward in difficult
circumstances and then have to deal with A1 star review.
Oh yeah, they're terrible because someone thought that
they had a bad experience. You know, and I mean, and I get
it, we, we screw up. We're not perfect.
You know, we, there's the days where we go into the restaurant
and we taste our tray and I determine something's not up to
our standards and we'll 86 it. We won't serve it, but we do our
best to make sure that we give everybody a great experience.
It's just tough when you don't know it.
And instead of like them giving you the opportunity to fix it,
which all restaurant tours do, we're not in the business of
pissing you off, you know, and then charge it a bunch of money
for that experience. We want to give you a good time.
So if you're not happy, tell them they'll fix it for you.
OK, right here, let's move on to the future of BBQ.
Now we've talked at length about how BBQ has literally night and
day from old school to new school to what we, what I call
future school, right? But third wave, what's the next
5 to 10 years going to look like?
What do you think? Well, I mean, I think you're
going to see a couple camps come out in the next 5-6 years.
I think you're going to continue to see people pushing the
boundaries and borders, if you will, a BBQ bringing in like
more techniques, more flavors, new ideas, that beautiful
merging of cultures that is becoming part of Texas BBQ.
I also think you'll see probably the beginning or I wouldn't say
necessarily you'll see it, but right in the future.
But I think right now we're kind of seeing the beginning of like
a when you know, kind of like a backlash to that or an answer to
that where I think people are going to start gravitating
towards what they call traditional BBQ again, based on
like the, the Trinity and trying to get away from the, the new
flavors and new techniques, but still cooking in a manner that
lives up to the standards of current like modern BBQ.
But I think there will be an embracing of like going back to
like the old school ways of BBQ. I think you're going to see the
continued growth of BBQ internationally.
And what's nice about that is you'll see live fire and that
you'll see new ingredients there.
And so you kind of, I think it's got three ways to go.
You know, the building of Texas BBQ internationally, building a
Texas BBQ with flavors coming into it internationally.
And then people say, you know what, I just want my Trinity.
Give me a good piece of brisket and some pork ribs and a
sausage, and they're all good routes to take.
You know there's no right way. Well, that's my favorite part of
this new world of BBQ. Like I know that there are lines
and there's the old school, the new school and the future
school, first wave, second wave, 3rd wave.
But the beauty of it is I can go to any of them and still enjoy
it and have a great time, right? And sometimes you might not want
all the razzle dazzle. Sometimes you just want a Hardy
hit of good old fashioned BBQ, right?
So you. Just want a foldy you.
Know, And sometimes you want to sit in a fucking place that
looks like it's got history, right.
Barbecue might not be great, but holy Dooley, the atmosphere is
electric. And I think that all of those
lanes have their place. And if we try and pigeonhole BBQ
like the future of BBQ is this, I think we're doing it a
disservice. Because yeah, don't put blinders
on it. I mean, I'm excited to see where
it goes and for BBQ to continue its relevance, to continue the
moment we're in. It's got to evolve.
Because if you just keep doing the same thing over and over,
it's boring. You know, people move on.
Yeah, and you know, good brisket in Texas was hard to find maybe
10 years ago. It's fucking everywhere now.
You've got to do things to stand out.
Dude, we're brisket rich. We got all the brisket and it's
damn good. Like it's hard to find a place
that doesn't do a good brisket. Now you know I.
Mean, honestly, yeah. I mean, like if you open up a
barbecue joint in Austin and you just do good brisket and good
ribs and sausage, it's like, OK, well, yeah, welcome to the
party. Everybody else is doing, you
know, for the most part, good ribs and good brisket and good
sausage. It's like, how do you stand out
in a market that that's the standard?
It's it's very difficult. So I think it's important that
you, you know, you find your own way, you look in Word, you try
not to copy trend, you try to do things that you think speak of
you as a cook and a person and then hopefully you make it.
All right, let's move on to Milscale.
It's a brand that I absolutely love.
I love the aesthetic. I love what they build.
I love how they build it. I love the look.
I love the boys. I love everything about it.
And they have built you a custom pit and you kind of affiliated
with them in some way, shape or form.
Yeah, good friends of Milscale, a big fan of them as well.
Like I've always love their products.
We are going to be participating in an event called Lockhart
Rising. It's an event they've been
putting on in Lockhart now for the last three or four years and
we've been fortunate to be a part of it.
I was really stoked that I got invited because they're they're
pulling in some heavy hitters to come cook in Lockhart of all
places. People internationally, big
names and BBQ, big chefs from around the country.
So yeah, to be a part of it was really exciting.
And then probably the most exciting thing I've done with
Millscale is get this this bad ass rig because it's my favorite
thinker, right? The details are crazy.
Tell us a little bit about it. I wanted something that I could
roll into a field with nothing there and cook food for like 200
people. So they built me 1000 gallon pit
on one side. You know, the classic beautiful,
you know, millscale pit. In addition to that, they added
this lovely fire table. There's a direct heat cooker,
there's a folding down stainless steel table, there's a coal
generator on the back. And then every nook and cranny
that wasn't occupied by something that can cook is set
up to strap down ice chest and boxes and coolers and things so
we can go wherever we need and be self-sufficient.
That's the nicest patina I've seen on a BBQ yet.
I know it's dope. It's got like four or five
layers to it. Yeah, and it's really cool.
Like this pit, right? Well, this part of the pit here,
right here, the firebox, that's half of A-250.
The other half is on their custom rig that they kept there
at the restaurant. So I kind of feel like we're
like Lightning brothers or twins separated in some way because we
got a little part of their rig as well.
Awesome. All right, The Michelin star.
This is a big fucking deal. Yeah, this is a real big deal,
right? Michelin has been ignoring BBQ
forever. It's embraced nearly every other
cuisine in the world. You know you can go and get
dumplings from a little Hawker market in the back end of
Singapore and they've got a Michelin * but it's forgotten
about BBQ. But not now, not.
Anymore. So tell us about it.
The first Michelin star in BBQ. I think a few people got awarded
it at the same time, but this is a huge deal.
This is not a mention, this is a *.
Yeah, no, it's, it's quite surreal.
I mean, as a trained chef, somebody's been in the in the
chef world. I understand the value and the
relevance and the importance of a Michelin * I just never
thought I would ever be anywhere where I could even have that
happen. Because when I was growing up as
a chef, Michelin wasn't in the United States.
And when it did come to United States, it was in the big
cities, it was in New York, Chicago, San Francisco.
They weren't going to roll around in the middle of Texas
and offer stars. But yet they showed up.
And then something really special happened on that night,
you know, in November of 24. It was a, it was a gathering and
I think a real like recognition of Texas BBQ because not only
would, you know, I got a star and Evan got a star over Lauren
Lewis and Ally at La Barbecue and the guys over at Corkscrew.
You know, we were, we all received those awards and we're
just immensely happy. But I was also really happy for
my friends in BBQ because there was probably another 20 to 30
restaurants in Texas BBQ that got Bib Gourmands, got
recommended. It was a really coming of age
moment, I think, for Texas barbecue in that room because
there's just so much recognition for everybody's hard work, all
the people before us, our friends next to us.
It was nice to see the cuisine finally Garter the respect that
we think it deserved. Yeah, and look, lists are
important, reviews are important.
But when it comes to food on a worldwide scale, Michelin is
kind of like the gold standard. Yeah, it is.
And, and it's funny because like in people in Texas, it's really
new. Like what is a why is a card
like tire company me like raiding my BBQ joints Like no
thank you. I'll stick with Texas Monthly or
I'll stick with my own list because it's the gold standard.
So it's nice to see the recognition.
And when you get out in the world and you travel or when you
have food in Europe or in parts of Southeast in Asia, you
realize how important Michelin is.
And they are kind of like the gold standard.
They're the guys that say, you know what this is?
This is good stuff. It's worthy of a trip to come
visit this restaurant. It was really nice.
All right, the Peach tea, glazed pork belly, burnt ends.
They put you on the map. They did.
Tell me about them. The most important dish that we
have ever created. My nemesis because they're a
real pain in the ass. This started out as a special me
and war dog, my buddy Warren, who's been at the restaurant
from day one. We wanted to cook pork belly
and, and typical John and Warren fashion, it's like, well, how do
we want to cook this pork belly? Because we want to eat it.
And so we ran through several ideas and variations and
eventually settled it on this Peach tea version of it and
started running as a special Saturdays.
And it just quickly became a pain in my ass because people
would show up on Friday and I didn't have the pork belly.
And that was a problem. So then we had to start
expanding it. And I knew that this was one of
those dishes, the technique and the way we do it.
I was like, Oh no, this is this is a trap.
This is going to be a lot of work.
And if this really blows up and we're just going to have to, we
have to be a whole new pit, buy a whole new pit just for this
pork belly if this thing really takes off.
And of course it did. And it really helped put us in
on the map in BBQ. It quickly became A5 day a week
thing. Now we have it, you know, try to
add this to the end of service every day.
It's as important to us as brisket is in BBQ.
I would say this is the most copied dish in BBQ period.
Wow, yeah, it's it's, it's been amazing.
I mean, I see a lot of stuff out there that looks similar,
different techniques, different flavours.
But yeah, it's it's heavily associated with us.
And I'm just glad that we can like, add our, you know, touch
to barbecue and, you know, hopefully we inspire people.
I mean, I think it's great. I think it's flattering, you
know, and you, you do something that inspires people to go out
there and do their version of it and add their own flavors and
techniques. So I'm here for the party.
We'll see where it goes. So just to clarify, do you call
them burn insurance in the restaurant?
No, we don't. OK.
No, no, we call them a Peach tea glazed pork belly.
And it's very intentional because, like, in my mind,
classic burn insurance or beef, they're cubed up.
They're tossed in a sauce, thrown back in the pit and
cooked again. I think words matter when it
comes to food. So yeah, in the restaurant, we
never call them bird ends. And everybody calls them a bird
end. And that's just, you know,
sometimes you can't fight the tide anymore and you just go
with it. But we still put them on the
menu as a Peach tea glazed pork belly.
OK, you're not stopping. No.
Why stop? Well, it's too short.
You dominated BBQ like, and that's not me blowing wind up
your skirt or whatever. You've got the Michelin star to
prove it, right? But you've also got this Yellow
Bell Taco food truck. Yeah, you're under tacos now.
I love tacos. I love tacos too, but it's hard
enough to be good at one thing, let alone fucking 2.
Well, the big three in Texas is chili, tacos and BBQ and I
figure if I can do really good in all three of those, I will
meet my goals as a Texas based chef.
So growing up in Corpus Christi, probably the most important meal
in Corpus Christi is breakfast and it's tacos and it's on flour
tortillas all made from scratch and by hand and yellow bells, my
expression of South Texas, the Coastal Bend.
And then it's also just like a really good thing for my
business is for Interstellar as well, because one of the
problems with barbecues, we create so much by product and
trim things that we can't use inside the restaurant.
And we use some of those products to build our tacos and
our cellar, I mean, at, at Yellow Bell.
So yeah, it, it works both in both ways.
It helps me out at Interstellar and then it also allows me to
cook a food that I love dearly and I think it's important to
have in the the mix, if you will.
OK, so we've talked about BBQ. Yes, we've talked about the fact
that you have pivoted it to tacos and judging by the
pictures I've got up on the screen, are crushing it.
I mean, I think they're pretty. Good.
You know what you're missing though.
What's that pizza? And you've fucking got one.
Yeah, we got pizza too. Deft pizza?
What the fuck is what do you mean?
Well, I mean, I spent a lot of time as a chef cooking in
Italian restaurants. So I really love all things
Italian, La pasta, la pizza, and I love a thin crust pizza.
And in Austin it's been like all Neapolitan for the last 10
years. Like everybody's like doing
these wood fired pizzas. They're all floppy and foldy.
And I mean, it has a place, but it's not my style pizza.
I like it. I want to hold it out.
I want that piece of pizza to like stand out like that when I
pick it up. So there wasn't any thin crust
that I was excited about. So what do you do?
You open up a restaurant to fix that problem.
This is some exceptional looking pies.
Yeah, thank you. So we kind of follow, you know,
it's going to sound funny to say.
So we kind of follow like the Chicago style, the Tavern style
pizza, thin, crispy, party cut, crushable.
The idea is that you can have several slices and still have a
cold beer and not feel stuffed and nasty afterwards.
So yeah, this is what we're doing and it's gone over fairly
well. I mean, we're coming up on our
two year anniversary. This fall will be our two year
anniversary and I really like where the food's at.
I'm really excited about it. I think it's, it's nice and, you
know, running like a, like an actual owner instead of a Daily
Key employee. And we've hired a great team.
I give them inspiration and we check the quality of food and I
kind of drive the menu. But we've got a great team of
people that believe in the concept and they're out there
doing it day in, day out for us. All right, I'm going to move on
to something that's a little bit personal to me because I've been
a graphic designer for 20 years. And so when I look at other
people's work, I'm always blown away when I feel like somebody
has done something that completely changes the way that
I I look at artwork. And it's not artwork done by
you, but it's been done for you by a guy called Brady.
And this is some of the artwork that he's created for you.
Obviously you collaborate on this stuff together, right?
So obviously you know what you're looking for, everything
you've touched and done in BBQ has a certain amount of finesse
to it and Brady is the right graphic designer to just create
and I would say pioneered this new look of what future school
BBQ should look like. Yeah, I'm really blessed to know
Brady. Brady Clark, His handle on
Instagram is Brisket country. I met him before I ever got into
BBQ. He showed up Interstellar and
had lunch with us a few times. We rapped about art and design
and food. And when I decided to shut down
my old restaurant, a Noble Sandwich Company, I reached out
to Brady. It's like, hey, I had this
division. It's kind of wacky.
They were going to do this space themed BBQ place.
Like, can you do something with that?
And he's like, Oh yeah, I can definitely do something with
that. And that was the beginning of
our collaboration. I think it's really important
when you're working with creative types, whether it's in
design or, or food or whatever their medium is, is that you
give them enough space to, to really own it and design it and
be a part of what we do. So my relationship with Braley
is really built on that. And you know, I, I'll throw out
a wacky idea like, hey, I want our anniversary party to be tiki
themed, run with it. And he knows what I'm looking
for. We work together enough.
Now when he comes back, I might make a few suggestions, you
know, like can we do this or do that?
But for the most part, he just brings it and just knocks it out
of the park on a regular basis. And on top of that, you have got
some exceptional merch, right? You've been really on the front
foot there about saying, hey, when people come and have a
great meal, they also want to rip your brand and walk it
around, right? And you've got some really cool
merch as well. Yeah, I think it's important
part. I mean, a fully mature, fully
realized concept needs to have all things firing on all
cylinders. And I think one of the ways you
can really get your brand out there is to lean into your
merch, make it fun, make it exciting, make it something
wearable and make it stand out and be unique.
And it's just, it's great. I mean, you know, you, it's the
coolest thing is to walk out into the wild and see somebody
sporting one of your T-shirts at the grocery store or drive
another St. and wearing one of your hats.
So it's always been a really important part of it.
I told Brady from day one I was like, hey, we need to have great
merch. I want to have 5 or 6 different
hats at all times. I want to have four or five
shirts at all different times. We don't want just one image,
you know, like that. That's all we do is let's mix it
up. Let's have fun, let's do lots of
things. So it's been, it's been really
good and it's one of the better decisions that I've made.
A lot of the times when people do logos, I look at them and go,
that's not going to last, you know what I mean?
It's going to date really quickly.
That logo of yours is never going to date.
No, I think he did. I think he crushed it.
I mean, people told me it was a terrible name when I chose it,
but I think we've really owned it and like, leaned into it,
really made it something that hopefully will stand the test of
time. We'll see.
OK, so we've got some questions. We did say that you were going
to come in the studio. We've got tons of questions
about the pork belly. OK, I feel like we've talked
about that enough. So let's just jump into some
other stuff here. These photos, they were posted
in 2019 and they are some of the first photos that you ever
posted on your social media. And for me, these two things you
do better than anybody, the Peach tea, pork belly and the
other is your sausage. Now I don't know and I can't
really think of anyone else, maybe sausage sensei who was
doing sausage to this creativity of level like people were doing,
I guess you know, the cheese and jalapeno or whatever.
But you've got pistachios in there, you've got corn in there,
you've got a whole heap of tightly packed beautiful
ingredients in a sausage that was breaking the mould.
And then at the same time you were doing the the pork belly,
Peach tea, pork belly. The question I have for you, did
you know at the time when you were doing this that this was
unique and different and no one really was doing it before?
Like anyone was unique in the sense that I was trying to make
food that was special to us. You know, like we were just
referenced earlier, Austin's brisket rich.
It's BBQ rich, and if you're going to be dumb enough to open
up a BBQ restaurant in the toughest BBQ market in the
world, how do you stand out? Like, how do you bring something
new to the table? So that was part of like our
mission from day one. Not sure why we landed on pork
belly. And I mean, we did the Frito pie
sausage because I love Frito pies, but a lot of my food is
built around the ideas. Like I love this stuff.
This is what I would want to eat.
This is what I want to share. And then hopefully this is
unique enough where we can like get to stick around for a little
while. So that was kind of the basis
for most of our creative endeavours early on.
It's like, how can we stand out a little bit from everybody
else? There was a few people back then
and and I would say Valentino's won't have been another one,
right? And I'm sure that it wasn't just
Interstellar, but that kind of broke that mould from new school
into future school. And I feel like these photos,
the beginning of it. You can look at like the guys
over at Tejas, they were doing a chili Reno sausage.
You can look at 2 M they were doing that Mojaca cheese and
roasted Serrano that I mentioned.
You know, it's like kind of like a play on a classic jalapeno
cheddar, but something new, something fresh.
So things were bubbling. You know, I, I wouldn't claim
that I was the first one to do it, but during that time period
is when you started to see other people saying, you know what?
We, we don't just have to do like a classic hot gut or a
standard pork link. We can do we can be more
creative. It can be an area where you
express things. And you know, at the beginning
of that time when I think new school barbecue and future
school or third way was kind of starting up, you know, before us
and while we were getting our footing, sausage was one of the
areas where you could have fun and not like get in trouble, you
know, like the old, good old boy rolling.
Like, you know, I want ribs, sausage and and brisket and I
don't want anything else. Don't get anything weird like
your Mac and cheese or or this and that.
But for some reason, you could kind of get away with it with
sausage. I would kind of say a lot of
people at at the same time, and there's a lot of restaurants
pushing the mold these days, saw things like this and went, holy
shit, if he can do it like that, I can do it like this.
And they went off and got their own kind of twists on things.
Whether it's KG BBQ or Cafe or whatever.
I had to at some point be inspired by you taking things to
the next level, showing what was possible and then opening a
floodgate is what I would call it.
Yeah, I mean, it's an honor and a privilege to be a part of it.
You know, when you see people or talk to people that were
inspired by your work, I think it's, you know, it's really
validating. It's pretty damn amazing.
So, yeah, I mean, we're we're off to the races.
I don't know where Barbie who's going, but I like the direction
it's. Going yeah, so do I.
All right, This question was sent in by Armstrong BBQ Nate,
and he has a great BBQ restaurant in Victoria,
Australia. And he asks, with your pits out
in the parking lot and open to the elements, what adjustments
do you make when winds change or it's raining?
How do you keep the BBQ consistently great?
It's hard. I mean, it's hard.
You know, I've cooked many shifts in that parking lot in
rain gear and rain boots. We've had cold funds bowling in
where, you know, it's 75° one moment and two hours later it's
35. It's a tough environment.
My guys do some of the best barbecue in the world in the
worst pit room in the world. I'm so grateful and so thankful
that my team buy into it. They do it and you know,
honestly wouldn't change anything about it because it
does add so much, you know, like vibe and style and attitude to
our restaurant that you don't get when you, like, open up a
barbecue joint in a shopping center and like the burbs in
Austin. So having those pits on that
island just adds a ton of like BBQ gravitas to the whole space.
But it's hard, you know, you have to work with the elements,
the humidity, the temperature, the the wind, the rain, all
those things play into running the pit the right way so you
could BBQ out of it. And so it takes our guys quite a
while to go through training. And I don't feel like our guys
are done training until they've gone a full year cooked in all
the seasons and all the elements and all the things that can
happen to you when you're out there cooking BBQ.
All right, next. This one was by Blue Jay
Barbecue. And he asks, what's your
favorite first dish to eat? My deathbed meal is a Teresa
bean and egg Taco on a flour tortilla locked in for my
favorite taqueria in South Texas.
Yeah, that's what I want to have right before I lie the right in
or whatever. All right, I've got some quick
fire questions for you. They're off the cuff.
Some of them might be a little bit quirky and weird and loose.
Here we go. What's the most underrated cut
of meat for BBQ? I'll stick with my guns.
I've said this many times and will say many times in the
future, I think it's Turkey, poultry in general, but Turkey
is like probably the most underrated cut in Texas BBQ.
People are constantly surprised when they come in, they're from
out of the state or they're from out of the country.
They try the Turkey and they're just like, this is really good.
Like I never thought I would like Turkey.
So I think it's the most underrated cut personally.
Right, I happen to agree with you there.
All right, BBQ trends that need to die.
The one that annoys me the most is when you have a pitmaster
stare at you through his social media, making eye contact with
you and snapping that sausage right in front of the camera.
It just feels like they're violating you.
I can't get into it. So in your seat is normally a
guy called Sai and he didn't like the snap.
He kind of banned it. He said that it was 2025 and we
needed to let the sausage snap die.
And he's going for the vertical kind of reveal now.
So you slice it and reveal it like a butterfly as a nicer way
of doing it. And I understand it doesn't have
the kind of like snap and all the juice flying out of it.
But sometimes I look at him and I'm like, I don't know whether
I'm impressed or disgusted. But you know you're moved one
way or the other, right? That's true all.
Right, let's move on the BBQ dream team.
So hypothetically, if you had to start a BBQ competition team,
who's on your team? Dead or alive?
Oh. Man, I'm going to go all live
because like I got to know the people I'm going into war with.
So it's going to be Rick Mace out of Tropical Smokehouse, It's
going to be Hector Karate out of Palmira, my boy Don from Corey
BBQ. I would probably get Ernie from
Burt Bean, even though he doesn't get out and do anything
because he's always at the restaurant.
And then #3 maybe I sell you all from 2M.
That's that's my big three, my big 5 currently.
I was going to bring somebody in that wasn't alive.
It'd be John Mueller because I need somebody to add some spice
to the mix. There's some heavy hitters in
that list. All right, next on the menu.
This is the end of the show, right?
And this is where I've got lucky enough that you're going to
fucking cook for me. I know it's not a bad deal.
All right, but I did ask you to make it simple because you are
cooking on. There's no kitchen here, right?
Pretty dodgy. Cy does wonders because he cooks
a dish every episode while we're doing the podcast.
He's kind of like trying to cook at the same time.
But I did ask you to do something simple because you're
travelling. You don't have nothing with you.
What are you done? Tell me.
I'm just doing simple chicken thighs.
I mean, I don't get into wings. I'm not a wing guy.
My version is the bone in skin on chicken thigh.
So I like to do it in a two-part series where we kind of like
cook it low and slow, offset away from the heat, then crisp
it up good quick and hot over the fire to get the skin
rendered. Then toss it in a simple sauce,
fresh herbs on there and then just tuck into it.
It's good stuff. All right, bring it up.
It is time grab a bite. Right, run me through it again.
All right, so we've been playing around a lot with twice firing
or multiple cooking techniques on like one protein.
So this is basically like a slow smoked chicken thigh and then
finished hot and fast to crisp up the skin.
And then I treated kind of like a chicken wing I saw set up
nice, throw some herbs on there and like big boy wings or just
pick it up and get several bites instead of trying to gnaw
through a little bitty wing. So.
Bone in. Bone in.
All right, let's go. Right.
There's a bit of a weird tradition we do on the show
here. Yeah.
We cheese our food. Oh, I love that.
Cheers. Juice, drop it off there.
That is so, so juicy. That'll do for a chicken wing.
That shits on a chicken wing. So a chicken wing should be.
This is amazing. This is just a chicken thigh.
It's about the most basic of proteins as you can get, right?
I mean, look at that juice. Drop it off my hand.
Yeah, it's destroyed in the studio.
There are only two times I've ever had food where I feel like
someone has elevated very basic protein, and one of them was
Ernest Cervantes at Meat Stock last year.
He did a drumstick. A plain old drumstick, right?
Tijuana chicken. Fucking amazing.
Yes do. And this is fucking every bit is
good. Thank you.
It's just such a protein that everyone would just overlook.
Yeah, and you elevated it. Well, thank you.
I think it's important that you try to find little gems in
hidden places. I've always loved chicken thighs
so. Chicken wings have barked.
The thing is, you ate like a chicken wing.
It's just a really big chicken wing.
I think thighs are going to have a moment in the next year or
two. You'll see them all over the
place. All right, all right, that was
sensational. I mean, a lot of people can cook
really good meat well, true, but there's a certain amount of
finesse and skill that it takes to cook something as basic as
chicken thigh and make it that fucking tasty and juicy.
Thank you. All right, well, look, it's been
a pleasure to have you here in the studio.
You're going to be at Meat stock.
You're cooking in Fire Kitchen at Sydney.
So we're honoured to have you here for you personally the next
few years. What's on the horizon?
Well, continued travel, cooking abroad, I like to think of
myself as a BBQ ambassador. If you will hopefully grow or
continue to grow our businesses. I I love what I do so there's no
retirement for me I, I want to cook food till the day I die.
I want to be with friends and family and new friends and new
family and and cook and create and grow and just keep living a
great life and that's it for me. Well, you're doing it well so
far. Thank you.
All right. It's a pleasure to have you here
in Port Macquarie and in Australia too, right.
I know it's been on your bucket list for a while.
Yes, it has myself and my beautiful wife who supports all
my crazy endeavours in life. This was the number one place
for her to visit if we ever had the chance.
And I said hey, we might be able to go to Australia and she's
like, all right, let's go. No push back.
It was great. Awesome.
Alright, we'll see you at meat stock in Sydney and thanks for
coming on the. Show indeed.
Thank you for having me. See you next Tuesday.