Were you already a mountain biker?
Like, was that kind of your thing?
That was my thing. Mountain biking was my life.
OK, take me through the day. What was it like for you, just
waking up your normal day? Were you with other people?
So that day I remember going to work at the gym and typically I
would work early morning. I'd have clients starting at
6:00 AM. And a lot of times I would have
this kind of dead time in between my morning clients and
my evening clients. And oftentimes I would go
mountain biking in the middle and go go home, shower, and then
go back to work in the evening just because that was how my
schedule kind of worked out. So that day I remember working
in the morning, I went to run by the grocery store and grab some
things, but I was kind of running late to get to my ride
that I had planned. So I ran in the door, put away
the refrigerated items, left the dry goods on the counter, and
then hopped on my bike because I was trying to ride to the trail
because it was close by, because I was running late, I ended up
driving there. I was going to meet my friend
Debbie. There was some other women in
the mountain bike group where Debbie and I met.
The mountain bike group is called Trailing Trolls, and they
were going to be riding. But because I had very limited
time, I told Debbie that we were just going to do the loop
quickly on her own. So this particular park is
within like quick driving distance from my house.
It's called Whiting Ranch Wilderness Park.
To do the main loop would take me 45 minutes if I'm, you know,
not stopping at all. So that was kind of the plan.
Is this a loop that you've done frequently?
Many, many times. This is like my home territory,
so to speak. It was just after the holidays,
so this is January, early January, so the weather was
cool. I had just gotten back into town
from visiting my family in Minnesota for Christmas, so I
had been off my bike a little bit.
So I just wanted to kind of do a quick loop to get the legs going
again. So, you know, I was expecting to
be back home pretty soon. Oh my gosh, so you're on your
bike. So I met Debbie in the parking
lot and because the weather, I had a short sleeve jersey, but I
had arm warmers, which are just like a section of a sleeve so
that you can take them on and off, you know.
And I remember taking those off because the weather was actually
pretty nice, but we were trying to race the sun.
It was afternoon, late afternoon, and we knew we could
get that loop done though before the sun went down.
So that was kind of our goal as we started out.
I remember specifically passing a group of it was a couple moms
with a bunch of little kids hiking and I remember passing
them on the way in and then we got to a climb.
Oh my gosh, little kids out there like that.
Oh gosh, yeah, this. I mean, it's normal, but yeah,
in in your situation, thinking of little kids out there, yeah.
Exactly. Thinking back, I'm like, wow.
I mean, honestly, I'd rather it be me than any of those little
ones. But this wilderness area is
backs up to like a strip mall, grocery store.
There's houses around it. It's pretty expansive, though.
But it's it's part of what I love about mountain biking and
hiking is that you're in this, you know, suburban area and in a
matter of minutes, you feel like you're in the wilderness and you
are technically, but it's very accessible.
But that's what I love about the sport is that you can kind of
get away from the hustle and bustle of your daily life and
the fast pace of Orange County and be able to get out into the
wilderness. So it's part of what I love
about it that it is so accessible.
We did climb up to what's called Four Corners, so that it's a
climb called Mustard. It's a fire Rd.
Up at the top of Four Corners is where most people kind of
regroup and meet up with their friends if we're a different
pace or whatever. So I stopped there and was
waiting for my friend Debbie and I saw another friend, her name's
Heather, there at Four Corners. She was going to ride with us
originally, but decided that she was going to take a shortcut
home. Her son, I guess, had called her
several times asking mom, where are you?
Where are you? So she just felt this real urge
to go home instead of ride down the single track with us.
So as I'm waiting for Debbie, I noticed there's a couple
different groups of mountain bikers, all men, maybe like 8 to
10 riders still kind of hanging out up there.
And Debbie got up there, we chatted for a couple minutes and
the trail we were going to go down is called Cactus, and it's
probably the most popular downhill trail.
So I said to Debbie, I saw two guys take off down the trail.
I knew most of these guys are going to go down the trail.
I don't really like having to, you know, if you're getting held
up by people. So I'd rather go before the big
mob of people go. And I said to Debbie that I was
going to see if I could catch the two guys by the bottom of
the single track. Like I said, this is our home
turf. I know the trail really well.
So I kind of not that I'm competing with them, It's more
that I would use other people to.
Yeah, pace yourself. Yeah, exactly.
Like, just as a goal has nothing to do with them.
I went down Cactus and Debbie followed me a couple turns in.
There's kind of this blind corner.
How far is she behind you? Not far at all.
In the beginning she could see me, but because of the fact that
it twists and turns, there's definitely parts where I'm going
to be out of sight. So we're very evenly matched,
which is why I like riding with her.
A lot of the ladies like to stop and talk and chitchat while they
ride. I'm not that way.
Like I'll talk in the parking lot when we start, I'll talk in
the parking lot when we're done. That's about it.
And Debbie is the same way. Like we're there to ride, we're
not there to. It's go time, Yeah.
Why are we even here? Let's.
Yeah, exactly. I mean, I've ridden with people
where I remember riding with this New Girl and she was
stopping to pick flowers and like, show me the I'm like, OK,
we're not. We're not on this, you know,
like our goals are not the same. So yeah, yeah, yeah.
I ended up not riding with her again just so I really liked
riding with Debbie because we were very similar in that way.
So as I am coming down the trail, I see I come around a
blind corner and I'm shocked to see this guy basically standing
right in the middle of the trail.
At that point, the trail is, you know, 12 to 18 inches wide.
There's really not much room to. So to be stopped in a blind
corner A is dangerous with the pace that people are coming down
that trail. And so I was really surprised to
see him there. So I grabbed the brakes, tried
to slow down so I wouldn't hit him.
And I said is everything OK? And he said, I found this
abandoned bike and I noticed he's straddling a bike and then
there's another bike next to him propped up up right against the
bushes. OK.
Yeah, so it kind of threw me off.
I honestly thought this is one of the two guys who just left
from Four Corners. Four Corners is very exposed,
kind of like tabletop area where you have trails going down from
all directions and one that goes up.
So what I thought is that this is one of those two guys and his
buddy is pulled over to go to the bathroom.
Like it would be kind of a weird place to stop, but.
But he tells you it's an abandoned bike.
Yeah, so I thought he was just joking around.
I really didn't take it seriously.
And of course, hindsight's 2020 looking back and like, Dang, I
should have stopped, you know, but at the time it just didn't
compute that this guy is serious, that he just found this
bike, you know, And so I, I had braked to slow down.
He says this to me. And then I kept rolling because
I, I really thought he was kidding.
I think that too, and I'm not trying to make excuses.
If I could go back and redo that, I would have stopped for
sure. And it has nothing to do with
the fact that, as you'll hear later, later in the story, that
may have saved me. OK, right.
It has nothing to do with that. Yes, I regret not stopping.
But just the context of it as a woman in mountain biking, you
know, 31 years old, whatever, it's a very male dominated
sport. You don't see that many girls
out there, women. And often times you'll have guys
where they're trying to make conversation with you, you know,
just because they want to meet a girl who rides, you know,
honestly. And to be frank, I mean, my
husband was one of those people that we met mountain biking.
You know, he's like, whoa, I want a girl who rides.
So that's part of it. I get it, but that was kind of
what I thought is going on. He's making a joke, trying to
engage with me. I don't really want to engage
with him, so I kept going, you know?
So you're thinking potentially that the bike being down could
have been a tactic to pick up well.
No, I thought, I thought that they had stopped, that his
friend was going to go to the bathroom because at four
quarters there's no place you can go.
To the bathroom all. Right.
So I thought that's what was going on that like I'm just
trying to put two and two together.
And you're so focused on the ride, you're just like, all
right, let's just. Go Yeah, yeah, I just, yeah, I
don't have time for this. So I continued.
Debbie was right behind me and saw me interact and then keep
going. So she also kept going.
I can't remember if she had exchanged any words with him or
not, but she just assumed everything's good and kept
riding as well. So we picked up speed again and
it's very narrow kind of roller coaster like single track.
I came around a, a little corner, there's a, a berm,
there's some bushes. It's like a, a burn maybe this
high and some thick bushes. And then on the left is a ravine
that goes downward. So you're kind of on this trail
like this. I came around the corner and I
remember seeing a flash of movement over my right shoulder.
And my first thought was that it was a deer, because that has
happened to me before on a narrow single track with high
bushes. A deer came out right in front
of me and jumped across the trail and almost hit me.
I mean, you would have been seriously injured obviously, in
that case. But that was my first thought
because I saw a movement and I saw a reddish brown fur.
Then I felt the impact and basically the cat had been maybe
5 feet away from me when it pounced and it basically grabbed
onto my back like my shoulders and immediately try to bite down
on the back of my neck. So as this is happening, I liken
it. I've never been hit by a car,
but that's what I would imagine it like.
Like the impact of it was by far the worst part of it.
It wasn't the claws, the teeth, it was the impact because the
impact was incredibly powerful to where I was slammed to the
ground like chest down. And obviously the the wind is
knocked out of me, right. But as soon as I felt that
something has a hold of me, obviously not a deer, right?
So I I knew right away the only thing that could do this is
mount lion. I'd never seen one in the wild,
really never. My husband has seen a few, but
no. And this, this area is known to
have a lot of mule deer, which is their preferred prey.
And so we knew they were there. There had been, you know, here
and there we'd have reported sightings like every few years,
whatever. You have a reported sighting at
a park. They put up a little paper sign,
but there were signs at the entrance of every park that said
warning, Mountain Lion country. You know, you're like, Oh, yeah,
At that point, before this happened, I would have thought,
oh, that'd be cool. You know, that was kind of my
mindset on it because I never really thought of them as a real
risk to humans. Sure, because you're always told
they're elusive. They don't want to be seen.
It just never would have occurred to me that this could
happen. I've learned a lot about
mountain lions since and now, you know, but I'll, I'll talk
about that later. But before this, I never would
have been worried about mountain biking.
I did tend to always ride with people, though.
So, you know, there's some awareness that, OK, be good to
go with someone else, be good to have a cell phone, stuff like
that. Yeah.
At the time, my husband rode solo all the time, deep into
wilderness hours, you know, and I never would have thought
anything of that either. So that impact where I hit the
ground and realized it was a Mountain Lion, I noticed that
the cat seemed to be trying to move around my neck like it was
originally on the back of my neck, clamped down and he would
let go and readjust. Oh man.
Working his way around. So during this, you know, I'm
alert and awake and I'm screaming.
Debbie came down the trail behind me.
At the time that the cat jumped on me, I was not within sight.
She was very close by, but she said the screams were not like
anything she'd ever heard. Not like a normal scream, you
know, So she knew something was wrong.
The cat basically went from the back of my neck to the side,
like kind of moved around, ended up on the side of my face.
So one thing went in at the bridge of my nose, one thing in
my upper lip and then the other two things here.
And as he closed down, I liken it to a hot knife through
butter. You know, it was, it was so easy
when he did that that it literally took this whole cheek
off in one flap. Like he just went and I could
just feel it like peel away, you know, which was, I mean, just
you can imagine the power in their bite.
But I'm understanding he's making his way around.
Are you how aware are? You I'm very aware of what's
happening 'cause when he was on the back of my neck, my first
instinct, I mean, I don't I didn't really know much about
melons, but I think of like, you know, you hear people getting
attacked by sharks and punching them in the nose.
So that's what I tried to do is I tried to punch over my
shoulder to try to hit it in the face.
I could feel myself making contact, but it was having zero
effect. And obviously I'm screaming.
But what happened is as he's moving around, I didn't realize
this part of it, he would readjust, drag me, readjust drag
me. So he ounced on me, on the
trail, immediately started taking me down into the ravine.
O as Debbie got there, he was already dragging me by my head
down into the ravine, like through the cactus, through the
scrub oak. And so she first of all got off
her bike. What was the time frame between
you getting hit and her getting? There, I mean it was almost
immediate, within seconds. So she was.
She was. Pretty.
She was right there, I would say no more than 20 yards behind me.
Yeah, she's right there. Yeah.
So she got off her bike, through the bike at the Lion to try to
scare him off. Had no effect once again.
So she tried to grab a hold of my one of my legs and basically
dug her heels in to the soft dirt and as he's dragging she's
trying to pull back. So essentially, they're in a tug
of war. Oh my gosh, with.
My head in the middle so, but I will say that the fact that she
held onto my leg is one of the most integral parts of my
survival. Had she not done that, they're
very capable of taking me away. I mean, they can take like a
full size sheep and jump over a six foot wall.
I am not a problem for that cat. So the fact that she was able to
slow his progress in just taking me away was a big part in my
survival. I would say so.
He makes his way around to my face.
I'm screaming bloody murder. I remember Debbie yelling at the
cat and saying the F word over and over and I'm like, I've
literally never heard her swear. So I mean, I think.
That, Is this what it's going to take to get her to cuss?
I know. Yeah, exactly.
But I think it's, it's fascinating to me how our brains
can have separate trains of thought.
Like I can literally be thinking I've never heard Debbie swear
before as I'm being attacked by. My life, Oh my.
Gosh, as I'm realizing, my face was just torn off as I'm trying
to think, what am I going to do? Like just the fact that our
brains go into this hyper mode of like managing all this stuff,
I think is incredible. So other mountain bikers had
come down the trail. They had heard the screaming and
Debbie was yelling at them do something throw rocks.
So one guy went up to try to get a signal 911 call.
Another guy actually did get a signal, made a 911 call and one
of the guys threw a rock at the lion and first one hit it in the
like rear flank, next one hit it in the shoulder and 3rd rock hit
it in the head and at that point he let go.
So he was latched onto you like was he still trying to get a
better grip or was he still trying to drag you away?
Or was he just holding you down? So he was constantly dragging.
So every time he would readjust his grip, he'd dragged me,
readjust his grip, dragged me some more.
So he's like doing both things. So after he had clamped on here,
he did end up getting me by the front of the throat.
So my husband like used to have a martial arts school.
I used to take classes from him. One of the things they tell you
if you think you're going to get choked out is to like close your
chin down to your shoulder and try to protect that space.
So I did try to do that. Didn't have any effect because
once he got a hold of me here and closed down, I mean, it was
a matter of seconds. I start seeing that like things
are starting to go black. So I am saying goodbye to
Debbie. I know I'm going to die.
This is it, right? Like I can feel things fading
out. And that was when the rock
throwing started. So I did black out.
I remember kind of being disappointed that there was no
tunnel of light. No like film reel of my life.
There is nothing. It was just this darkness and
that's it. But I will say one thing I found
kind of fascinating is the fact that I felt completely at peace
in a weird sort of way. Like I it wasn't as though I had
resigned myself to the fact that I was dying.
Like, Oh, well, this is it. It was, it was I, I don't know.
I can't really explain it, but in that moment where I knew this
is this is it, it was just like this piece, like, I don't know,
it's very tough to explain. I've heard of other people in
similar situations that I had to.
Say that I felt that way too. Really.
Yeah, totally. Yeah.
So it's very interesting because you would think that would be
the most panicked, no? You would.
I wasn't at all. I was.
I was just very OK, here we go, right?
This is it I. Had that's how it felt, yeah.
Like that was, you know, it was kind of like, and maybe I would
feel differently if I didn't have my daughter at the time,
you know, like maybe that would have changed how I fault in that
moment, but I just. That's exactly how I felt like
OK, that's it I guess. Were you in pain?
Do you remember feeling pain? No, I was not in pain.
I think adrenaline and everything kicking in.
I have been told also that facial injuries I guess are not
like they bleed a lot, but there's they're not as painful
as other injuries. And that wasn't the worst of my
pain later was not the the gnarly facial injuries.
So after I blacked out, the rocks were thrown.
The cat after the third rock let go and took off and I came to
Yeah. It was that a big rock.
I mean, softball science, they said, yeah.
So again, without what all of those guys did 911 call throwing
the rocks, all of. It was the time frame before it
let go. You're could you?
Did anybody ever tell you? Honestly, I have no idea and I
don't think anyone else would either, just because of everyone
has that adrenaline gun. I mean, the guy who who called
911 said he couldn't see my head.
All he saw was my head was completely engulfed in the
lion's jaw. So that's what they're seeing.
Like, not a fun thing to come upon on the trail.
Do you remember? Anything like the smells?
No. Nothing at all.
Nothing. Did you feel the like the fur of
the? Nope.
Debbie said it stunk really bad. I don't remember any smells.
And I think that too is part of that survival, part of the brain
where you're literally just focusing on what matters for
your life and anything that doesn't matter, your body just
tunes it out. Yeah, because she said it was
very stinky. Like gamey, smelly smell.
It never once even looked at her.
She was kicking at it, screaming at it.
Never once lost focus from me. She was close enough because she
has my leg, right? So if the cat's here and she's
there, it she was close enough, the cat could have done once why
she's done right. Never even looked at her, like,
so focused on trying to get me. Yeah, so very.
And a lot of times mountain lions will drag prey alongside
them. They don't back up like a dog.
They're going to drag alongside, you know, so like their rear
would be closer to Debbie and they're dragging that way, so.
Do you remember any other feelings?
Like even just do you remember the sounds at all?
Do you remember what the the lion sounded like or anything at
all? No, I remember the screaming
happening, and I wasn't aware that I was being dragged down
into the ravine at all. I thought that I was still at
the trail. And when I came to, as soon as I
came to, I felt like I was underwater.
Like I literally felt like I was drowning because of the blood.
Yeah. And so I had my helmet strap and
I was trying to like get it off because I just felt like I had
my camelback, the strap, this strap, I just wanted stuff off
because I couldn't breathe. And so we were taking off helmet
and WS help. And then they were as soon as I
came to the, a couple of the riders came down.
They helped carry me up to the trail.
So when I was attacked, I was on the trail, And then when I came
to, I'm basically up at the trail or they brought me up to
the trail. So I don't remember any of that
dragging down into the ravine part.
Yeah, almost like a drowning feeling.
So they helped me to sit up and then I could kind of catch my
breath. I started to be able to get
little bits of air. And I just remember, you know,
being a personal trainer, I mean, I teach like breathing
techniques and stuff like that. So I was trying to focus on
diaphragmatic breathing. Slow your breathing down.
Slow. Your breathing.
Down like try to manage. It that's impressive.
Well, just you think about if you're only getting a little bit
of air and that the feeling is panic, right?
But I'm, you know, you're trying to like, OK, I'm getting some
air, like, calm down, let's slow it down.
So your instinct in panic was to try to calm yourself.
Yeah, cuz I knew that's probably my best chance at being able to
get more breath, as if I like try to manage the breathing a
little bit better, you know. So just, I don't know, that was
kind of what my, my thoughts went to and they had propped me
up against the berm where the cat had jumped from so that I
could sit upright. That was kind of my first real
awareness again of what's happening.
I looked around and I thought the people I were seeing were
paramedics because I had no clue how long I had been out right
and I didn't know about the other mountain bikers.
So I looked around and didn't realize that oh, these are just
other mountain bikers who came to help.
Oh my gosh, how? Many people were around, so it.
Was me and Debbie, and then there was two solo riders and a
group of four other riders. So one of them had gone up, but
all of them were involved in some capacity in saving my life
and like to go back and hear the actual 911 call like in that
moment. And you just hear, you know, the
fear and justice. Yeah, probably.
I think you sent it to us. Yeah, there was a about a 22nd,
I think. We got a lady that has tacked on
Mount Light interface. Her face is almost gone.
I need people out here at White Ranch, Cactus Ridge, Whiting
Ranch. She's in bad condition.
I would get somebody here now. OK, Yeah.
So that was 1. Of the two calls that was made
that day, Wow, Yeah, it was a day, that's for sure.
Where's the? So the the rock hits the
Mountain Lion, it let's go. Does it?
What does it do? Does it stop and look?
Does it run off as far as people?
Knew it ran off, they just saw it let go and take off and then
I came to shortly after just because he released the grip
here. It's like a vice grip.
So then after I came to, I'm sitting with my back to the
berm. I then realized, OK, there is no
paramedics here. But then I remember being aware
of the weight. Oh man.
So it wasn't even. About pain or anything.
It was almost like someone stapled A stake to my face and
it's just like hanging, you know?
Like you could feel the weight of it and the that feeling felt
so foreign to me. I remember one of the guys took
AT shirt and gave it to me just so I could hold that up because
just the feeling of that was like, you know, like that's
probably not good. Could you see?
Out of that eye. So that was 1.
Of my concerns because I could tell this whole left side was
like mangled and that was one of the first things I did is I
covered my right eye to see if I could see out of my left and I
could. So that was that was the first
point where I was like, that's lucky, yeah.
Yeah, and. And honestly, we're that was
where I thought, OK, I'm going to be OK.
Like when I could see I still have my vision.
Not that the vision, I don't know.
But for me that was just like one on the checklist.
OK, I can handle this. You know, like I just remember
having that sense of relief. Yeah, even though, you know,
it's just another thing to deal with if that did happen.
But I was very. It's funny how your sense of
relief. Changes.
Yeah, it's all you know, like all.
Relative. All relative.
Totally relative, yes. Yeah, so I was very relieved to
see I could. I still had vision.
It took from the 911 call to paramedics being on scene in a
wilderness park. 19 minutes. What?
Yeah. That is by far the fastest I
have ever heard. Unreal.
I think the fastest beyond that it was maybe I think 3 1/2 hours
is what I've been. Wow, I know.
I feel like. Listening to some of these
survival stories where they're like, you know, I had to hike
out 10 miles. I'm thinking I had it good.
I had it good. They, I don't know about that.
Well, they. Did have.
They did have to make the decision on whether to switch
the gear from the your regular vehicle to like the more off
road vehicle. And because basically what they
would have had to do is either park on this roadway, hike all
the way up and then back down the trail or take the off road
vehicle up to Four Corners and hike down from there.
So as far as I remember, they, they did drive to Four Corners
and hike down from there. So I remember seeing these
paramedics carrying one of those, yeah, like stretchers.
Yeah. Yeah, exactly how?
Far. How far of?
A hike you think it was from where they parked to to you.
It's not that far. That trail is pretty short and
then it goes down onto a fire Rd.
So there's like, it's just like a funnel windy little section.
It's not that far. So the I remember seeing them
come down the trail and one of the paramedics crouched down in
front of me and was wanting to try to, you know, check my
vitals and start an Ivy. I remember watching him and his
hands are like, and I'm like, that was where I thought maybe
I'm worse than I think because this guy like seems really rat.
You know, that kind of worried me a little bit.
I mean, granted it probably didn't look good, but that
worried me a little bit. Well, I found out after the fact
that they had two helicopters flying the Avnet sheriff's
helicopter and one from the fire department.
One of the pilots, as they're looking down a saw what they
thought might be a body someplace else, just up the
trail. Oh my gosh, really?
Secondly. Saw the cat crouching down just
down the hillside from where the paramedic is working on me like
it was going to come back. Right, so the paramedics?
Knew that the cat was still nearby.
I didn't know that. That kind of makes sense.
We're a bit more adrenaline. Like.
Let's get her out of here. Were they armed?
No. Sheriff's deputies.
There wasn't, I don't believe there is sheriff's deputies on
the ground yet, but they came in pretty quickly along with
paramedics. So they did have someone.
Yeah, they did have people on the ground with firearms.
But basically they got the IV started.
You know, they do a judgement on Glasgow Coma Scale.
How lucid are you? And because I do remember
everything except for the portion where I was passed out,
I remember when the paramedic came up, I told him I have low
blood pressure. Like, you know, trying to tell
him I have a blood clotting disorder, trying to tell him
details that would help him. Like you're not freaking out
because my blood pressure's in the basement when that's normal
for me or whatever, you know, So I was very alert.
How? How were you able to?
Talk with your with them after it latched on your throat.
Well, we'll get. To that.
But the injuries I had, I had like 20 thing marks around my
neck, you know, So 5, let's say 5 bites.
At some point later on, they found like when they checked
everything, esophagus, trachea, voice box, carotid artery,
jugular vein, nothing was hit. So that's why, yeah.
Otherwise, no, I wouldn't have been able to talk.
But and then two, I don't know for a fact, but I do have a
blood clotting disorder that makes me more prone to clot,
more prone to clots. Debbie said that she was picking
off like huge clots off my face, which I don't know if that ended
up playing a role in helping me at all with blood loss.
I didn't end up needing a blood transfusion.
I have no idea honestly, but I think there was many, many
things that all worked in my favor, you know, I would say so
I would. Say so Yeah, so they the.
Paramedics then loaded me up and they said they couldn't get in
there with the helicopter, so they were going to have to hike
me out. At this point I did start to
really feel a lot of pain, mainly in my neck.
Like I just felt such strain, you know, like all the muscles
in my neck, super painful. This.
I don't remember feeling a lot of pain with regards to the
injury, but that as they're hiking me out, that was not
feeling good at all. I'm like, oof, this was it just
like the shaking? And all the yeah, they had AC.
Spine like collar on me and everything, but it was just
super uncomfortable. And then, you know, they had
just made it a short way up the trail and I heard one of the
paramedics say, I think he's coming in and the fire
department helicopter pilot figured out a way to set down on
the Super narrow area. There's power lines and stuff,
Super narrow section of trail literally touched down.
They slid me in. And yeah, so that I was super
thankful for 'cause, I mean, straight flight to the hospital
and didn't have to, you know, endure the hike out and all
that. Why do you think this?
Attacked you. What was the What was its?
Did you startle it? Cat.
So it had been stalking you for. A while no, I think.
That from what we know, it was bedded down on that berm.
There had been riders passing by like not necessarily with the
cat there, but the cat was in the vicinity.
And I've talked to riders who rode in the middle of, you know,
before this happened, never attacked them.
But where it was bedded down right off the trail.
One of the wildlife experts I talked to from UC Davis was
saying it's like a cat could be sleeping, a house cat.
And you drag a, a piece of yarn in front of it, it's going to.
Yeah. Wow.
Yeah. Interesting.
Yes, I. Think that when I'm coming
towards it down the trail, they have that like kind of want to
stay away. Soon as I pass it, it's like,
oh, that looks like fun, you know?
I mean, I'm not their desired prey, obviously, but what we
found out after the fact was that the abandoned bike did
belong to a mountain biker who was attacked and killed by the
same line. Wait, what?
Yeah. So the helicopter pilot who saw
what he thought was a body was a body.
And as far as we know, his name was Mark Reynolds.
As far as we know, he may have been riding the night before he
was attacked and killed. He was riding solo, so at some
point his bike, he had stopped right on that section of trail.
The bike was like either down the hillside or propped up right
there. And yeah, so we have talked to
people who had ridden that trail between when he was attacked and
killed and when I was attacked. But what?
How long was that so? That was the night before, so
OK, now I'm. Either the night what was that
guy doing there on the bike when you that was his buddy.
No, he didn't know him. He just.
Found he just he found the abandoned bike.
Oh my gosh, what I hear. So it took them off.
He was riding just like you. Yeah, well.
We think he had stopped and that he was actually going to the
bathroom or was stopped looking at his bike and that that's when
he was attacked, when he was stopped and like crouched down.
I since have gotten to know us again.
I know. I mean, that was really unreal
for me because I didn't find that out until the next morning.
It was in the newspaper. That's how you found out?
Yeah. You you saw it in the news.
Yeah. What did that do to you?
What was your what were your thoughts on?
I mean, it was. Like, obviously devastating news
to hear. And I think, did you have a
survivor's guilt? Thing happening or not really
and. Maybe that makes me callous.
I don't know. I mean, I'm just honestly super
thankful to have survived. I think that made me even more
thankful because here's this young fit at the, I believe he
was 35 at a time, like mountain bike racer, like, super fit guy,
right? Very healthy, strong, who was
overcome by the cat. So I think it just really made
it real for me, like, how fortunate I am to have survived
that. You had people with you.
Yeah. It's that was the.
Difference, to be honest. Yeah.
That was the difference, Yeah. It was really, really tough news
to hear. So we think that because of
that, that cat normally wouldn't see humans as as prey, but
because it was successful in killing Mark, now we're on the
menu, so to speak. And that's kind of what the
behavior and, you know, animal behaviors believe.
Oh. My gosh, yeah, I'm super.
Sad I have gotten to know his family shortly like maybe within
a couple months. I've met his mom and dad.
And how did that happen? Did they come see you or they?
Came. Out.
They came out, you know, for various reasons, but I just sent
out an invite if they wanted to come over to my house.
I was not really going out in public at that time because it
was pretty shortly after the accident.
And I just tried to think to myself, what, what could I say
as a survivor? Because that's rough, right?
You're, you're there to pick up your son who passed away by the
same lion. And you're meeting a survivor
like I, I think that'd be pretty rough.
So the only thing is I figure I could give them information that
no one else could in that sure some.
Closure or something? Yeah, that it.
Happened super fast. I didn't see it coming.
I didn't have pain per SE in the moment.
And that, like when I blacked out like that all happened very
quickly, you know, That was the only thing I could think.
Wow, Yeah. Wow, so 'cause I think.
You know, most people would think, I could imagine that,
that. Would have been very helpful.
Yeah, I think you know. Too, Because who else has that
kind of information? You're looking at something like
this thinking that sounds absolutely brutal, you know, and
like it sounds super painful, but that was not my experience.
I felt overwhelmed by the power of the cat, but it happened
super fast and you know, like even getting to the point of me
blacking out happened very quickly.
So I don't know, it's tough. So.
You look incredible, by the way, like everything that you've
described doesn't look anything like I would have thought at
all. I mean it.
Yeah, I I was thankful in a lot of ways that I didn't lose this
tissue. I've met survivors of many
different types of injuries. I met a woman.
I think we had both done ATV the same TV show and she reached out
and we ended up getting together for lunch.
She was bitten by her own horse and it took her antique.
Off. So I know that there's things
about my injuries that did make it a little bit easier to
manage. It was still quite a challenge.
And, you know, after the first surgery, I think I came to the
realization that I'm never going to look how I used to look.
So I think that was kind of like a second thing like level that I
dealt with is just coming to the realization that it is what it
is, you know, but what was the recovery like?
For you so I. Was airlifted to the hospital
and the plastic surgeon who was on call was the chief of
plastics for this hospital, which is the highest level
trauma hospital and like less than 10 miles from my house.
So I got the best of the best at that hospital.
I got the ER doc. It was the son of the man who
started that hospital. Like I got the best, best.
So. But interestingly enough they
have done interviews over the years and the trauma surgeon.
Said in an interview, which he'd never said to me.
I was pretty surprised. He said in all of his years my
injuries were the worst he'd ever seen.
Like that's. I'm kind of surprised by that.
Maybe that's changed since. But.
So they brought me into the ER, started to try to assess my
injuries, trying to get all the surgeons, their ear, nose,
throat surgeon, plastics, the trauma surgeon.
I should probably reverse one thing.
As soon as I got up to the trail, I told Debbie call James
to tell him my husband to tell him what had happened because he
has a martial arts studio that was like a 30 minute drive.
And so she called him from the trail and basically said Anne's
been attacked by a mountain lane, you know, go to the
hospital. What was his reaction?
He was. Pretty overwhelmed.
I mean, he basically kicked all the students out and said I got
to go and it was like rush hour. So he's driving to rush hour.
Oh no, yeah, so he starts. Calling people.
He called his grandma and she, he was so frantic.
She didn't know who he was. He, you know, he's like, yeah.
And then he called my parents and left a voicemail.
Yeah, So. Oh my gosh.
Your parents found out by a voicemail.
I can't remember if he. Told them on a voicemail or just
said to call him. I'm not sure to be honest.
But yeah, that was intense. He's he's very like tough
exterior guy, but softy. So it is a lot for him.
And so I'm laying in the in the ER and I see him walk up and he
started crying and we're holding hands and I'm telling him I'll
be OK, I'll be OK. And then he disappeared.
He he passed out. Oh no.
So they they got another. Gurney.
So now he's. Laying next to you?
Yeah, laid down. On a Gurney next to me.
He's getting more better care. Than you now, right?
Yeah, yeah, that's kind of the joke, but.
I mean, he, you know, I, people have asked me because honestly,
I'm an, I'm not a very emotional person.
I'm very like super even keeled almost what, you know, in
situations where I probably should be emotional.
I'm not. So I've never had issues talking
about this. I remember Debbie coming to see
me the next day and we're like making jokes and stuff like
that's just Debbie's personality and my personality very similar.
So it's just kind of that was our way of dealing it with it.
But the one time in my recovery that I remember crying was
realizing that my husband, we celebrated our 3rd anniversary
in the hospital, realizing that he's such a loyal person that he
would not leave me, you know, in all of this.
And that feeling like maybe he got kind of the the raw deal
because I knew he is so committed that he would stay
with me. But I kind of felt guilty that
he would have to go through all of this with me, you know?
So I remember being upset about that, just kind of feeling like
it probably wasn't fair to him. But he's still 25 years.
He's still here. Yeah, so.
I mean, I think one of the things I have learned is that
tight circle is what matters, right?
That no one like the wider circle of friends.
I mean, you do kind of see who your true friends are, but also
that that tight circle is going to treat you the same as they
always did. There's really no change and how
important that is, you know, to have that kind of support
system. Yeah, yeah.
So how take me were were you able to leave the hospital and
feel like you could kind of go back to normal life?
Has it been normal? No, I don't think it.
Ever will be normal for me just because I'm very aware of
reactions of people like some people like in my in my work,
sometimes I'll meet a new client and they'll call me and then
that first in person meeting I kind of I'm like, you know how
not not sure how it's going to play out.
Some people are totally fine. Some people never mention it.
I don't care if someone mentions or asks you questions, wouldn't
bother me. Some people, you see kind of
that deer in the headlights reaction, they don't even know
they're doing it. So, you know, it's kind of
always there in the back of my mind, I got to tell you.
You do not look as bad as you think you do.
I mean, I I'm surprised that you feel that way, to be totally
honest with you. Yeah.
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm super.
Thankful, I think, whoever. Did this, did a fantastic job.
My doctor. Doctor.
Nolan, who is the like I said, he was head of plastics at the
time. He's amazing.
He did the first reconstructive surgery, which was 6 1/2 hours,
200 stitches and tables, many layers of, you know, piercing it
back together. They spent hours and hours
looking for the nerve endings to try to find them, to put them
back together because I have loss of function on my lower
lid, this muscle and then a little bit of my upper lip.
But like I have feeling. So they worked really hard to do
their very best work. I'm super appreciative.
The otolaryngologist, ear, nose throat surgeon, when he was
looking at the wounds of my neck, what he told me is that
they usually would use their finger to check the depth and
they went in up to the highest knuckle all these wounds.
So I mean, it was extensive, even though they look small on
the outside, but they're super deep penetrating wounds.
And so I have. I don't see any.
Wounds on your neck at all. I know those those.
Really nicely because they they put drains in them and like I
said, they're very small. It's a Fang size.
The depth of it was super deep, but the where it went in was not
large or did wasn't like I had on the back of my head and neck
where the fangs tore and you know that type of thing.
But yeah, those healed up well, really well.
But they had done the six and a half hour surgery and then after
that for the reconstruction that I was going to have done, I had
what was the show, some plastic surgery show that was popular at
that time. They invited me to come to, you
know, Beverly Hills, do a consult.
They would have done it for free.
And I just wasn't, wasn't the vibe for me.
But and then another top notch surgery or surgeon from UCLAI
went there. He had a whole bunch of other,
you know, like student like residents or fellowship or
whatever, the student doctors in the room.
And he's talking, he's looking at me and saying, Oh yeah, I see
da da, da, da, da and that. And he's looking at me and
talking. He's not talking to me.
And I'm like, I just don't feel good about this either, you
know, like I feel like I don't know.
So I ended up calling Doctor Nolan's nurse and I just said,
you know, I am not sure what to do.
I have offers from these two really good surgeons that they
said they were going to do the the work pro bono.
You know, I know that it's going to be super expensive and I'm
not sure what to do. What do you think I should do?
And she said or I think that was before I did the consult, they
had offered to do a consult and they were going to do the work
pro bono. So I said she's like, go do it.
Go, go do the consults, you know, And then she ended up
calling me like a day or two later and saying Doctor Nolan is
offering to do the reconstruction for free.
And I was like, what, You know, So I ended up, yes, I want to
stick with him. The funny part is, so this
happened January. In December, they have this big
black tie gala for the hospital. And they invite one person who
was a patient at the hospital to come and be like, you know, the
person at the gala who gets up and tell us a little bit about
their story, comes up with their doctors and things like that.
I show up to the gala and I see Doctor Nolan with the nurse.
And I'm like, what is happening here?
They're married. Yep.
They've been married forever. I have no clue, so here I am.
That's awesome. Divulging my secrets.
To her about I don't know what to do.
I feel so bad because I really like Doctor Nolan and I'm like,
what? So of course she went and told
him. And so I mean, he's amazing.
I love them. That's cool, dearly love all the
surgeons I worked with. So yeah, super for.
Do you still have side effects at?
All so as you can. Probably see my this eye runs
it's dry because that lower lid doesn't close enough.
So it'll just it's like dry eye. Sure.
Yeah. So that which then when I got
back to mountain biking was a problem because it's like I
can't see, you know, And it's, it's like blurry vision.
But in everyday life, it's more of an annoyance than anything.
It's not, you know, it's something definitely I can live
with. Are you still mountain biking?
So I went back. To it.
Shortly thereafter, I was in the hospital 8 days a week.
After I got out, Department of Fish and Game asked if I would
be willing to go back to the trail with them to show them
where these things happened. Where was Mark's bike?
Where was the attack? Where all this right?
So I said, OK, so Debbie and I showed up.
They had Department of Fish and Game.
I don't remember. Yeah, I think it was just NOC
Sheriff. I believe they had people with
firearms with, you know. And.
I just told Debbie I just need to walk out in front.
Like I just couldn't. I felt like my goal is to get
back to biking. My this is a passion of mine.
I love it. I'm not going to allow this to
dictate my life. It's not I'm not going to allow
the fear to take this away from me.
So in my mind, I just thought if I walk out in front of the
group, I'm not like, in with the people with the guns, you know,
I feel like that would be kind of my first step at getting back
out there. Like, I can do this.
So she and I walked out in front and we're.
Oh, yeah, I remember this. Oh, yeah.
This looks like the berm because we're going to piece it together
as we're going along because of how chaotic that day was and
figuring out where everything is.
Oh, yeah. That's where I was dragged down.
And so that was kind of my first step.
And then I think I was cleared to ride in May.
So this happened in January. I had several reconstruction,
you know, surgeries. And Dr. Nolan said that I could.
I got back on my road bike first.
My first day on the road, I'd went into this like, private
gated neighborhood because it has these wide open streets.
I'm like, oh, that'd be a good place to ride.
And got hit with a water balloon from some teenagers.
Really. Oh no.
Yeah, and then my. Next ride I'm riding in in the
bike lane, you know, near my house.
Got hit with a big plastic cup filled with ice.
Why I'm like this White Mountain?
Bike because I don't have to deal with people just dumb.
Wow. Yeah, yeah.
So, yeah. Well, and and I've always said
in my opinion, if you get hurt Rd. riding, it's usually someone
else's fault. If you get hurt mountain biking,
it's usually your own fault. So it's like, I feel like in a
lot of ways you're in control. Like if it's technical and you
slow down, OK, you you know, but if you do something stupid,
that's on you, you know, so I kind of have always had that
mindset. So I was ready to get back to
mountain biking. And my first ride back or second
ride, I did one ride at a different location and then I
did a ride on to ride that trail just to check it off, you know,
like I felt like I kind of have this like internal checklist of
these are the things I need to do in order to get back.
So, and James was there and a bunch of the trail angels came.
So it's good. So I did get back to mountain
biking. And then I had my daughter in
2013 and we bought her all the bikes, all the bikes, all the
best bikes. She had four bikes by the time
she was like 6 didn't really like biking, so we did tons of
hiking together and yeah, so I've.
Yeah, I've gotten back out on the trails at this point, like
since 2013 ish. I haven't ridden and not for any
real reason, but I think if my daughter took it up, I'd be into
it. OK, so there's no.
Like, you know, fear somewhere in the back here.
Oh, there is OK. And actually that was.
Something I realized I needed to see more often cause a lot of my
even my riding friends had no clue that I had any issue with
riding because I would just go ride the same trails and no one
saw any, you know, any reaction from me.
But certain trails, single track trails, if they have like high
bushes, I have like some level of anxiety, it doesn't keep me
from riding them. Would I ever ride them solo?
No, probably not PTSD, No, no, I no.
In fact, when I was in the beginning of doing a lot of
interviews, I would sometimes try to close my eyes and like
put myself back there to try to remember details and things like
that. I never have had any issue.
But part of it, I think, is that this happened in a wilderness
area, didn't happen in a grocery store parking lot.
I can choose whether I want to go into wilderness parks.
I don't have to write someone who's attacked in a parking
garage. That's part of your daily life.
You still have to do that, whether you like it or not.
So I think because it puts me in the position of power in a
regard whether I love hiking and biking and all that and trail
running, all of it. So it's not something that I
would give up, but I it's by choice that and there.
So I think that to me, that probably makes a difference.
People who I've talked to like they did make me talk to a
psychiatrist before they would discharge me from the hospital.
And the report was flat affect. Like she doesn't have any, you
know, it's like her tone is very monotone.
She has no emotional connection. Like she's not crying or
anything. Very high risk of PTSD and I'm
like, that's just that's just who I am.
It's just so there's no. Moments where, you know, you see
that flash of something off the side and it triggers memories or
anything like that at all. Well, it's really unique.
Yeah. I don't know why.
I think that I think oftentimes in in interviews, people are
asked whether if they could go back, would they would they go
through it or not? And I think most people who have
been through something like this would say, I would still go
through it because of what I've gotten out of it, because of
what I've learned or learned about myself.
And I would not partly I was thinking about that.
Why is that? And part of it, I think is that
I think I went into it with certain skills, mindset that
didn't come from this. I think had I gone into this
attack without those, maybe I would have gained these things.
But I feel like I went into it with these things, which I think
is a lot of why I recovered the way I did, you know, emotionally
and physically. But having I was in the Marine
Corps, went to boot camp. I've been through difficult
things mentally. I've been through things that
made me realize, wow, I can do a lot more than what I've ever
thought I could do. I'm stronger than I used to
think I was or whatever. Would I have thought I could go
through this? No, but But I think that I went
into it with a lot of strengths to where I'm super thankful that
nothing really nothing about my life has changed other than my
facial injuries. I got back to mountain biking.
Physically, I'm fine. I can, I can do all those same
things. I think if I had lost those or
had had more severe injuries that didn't allow me to go back
to mountain biking, didn't allow me to do all these things, I
would be a lot more affected, you know, but I just feel like,
I mean, I kind of look at it like it's another day.
It is a day that does define a lot of my life.
You know, people know me as that person who is attacked or
whatever, but it doesn't. It's like 1 to me.
It's one small part of me, sure. It's not all of me.
No, that was a really good explanation.
I don't know. I think you knew I was going to
probably ask you that question. I I usually.
Say I ask everybody that. Oh.
OK, Yeah, I. I always say that because I
think everyone says and maybe I'd be curious what, what other
people say. I feel like most people say, oh,
I Oh yeah, for sure. Yeah, you're, I think I've
interviewed probably. I don't know, you're maybe 16.
Or 17 and only one other person besides you?
Really. And what was their reason?
I I don't know. Exactly what their reason was it
wasn't as eloquent as what you just it, it was really fresh
still. He was still processing like it
was very it was probably within a year he was attacked by
grizzly bear. And so he, yeah, it was just,
you know, but I, yeah, that's, that's tough.
I feel like what I'm hearing you say is.
That man, that sucked that that happened.
I wish that wouldn't have happened man.
It would have been a lot better off not having that happen.
I totally understand that and can respect that for sure.
I do think though, that your your opportunity to, I guess,
see the strength that comes out of something like that is there.
And then also to be able to realize that there are so many
people that hear this story that are even going to be listening
to this. There's going to be thousands of
people that listen to this and are just going to be like, wow,
she is a amazing person. Well, I will say.
I love survival stories. Like if I watch a movie, I want
to watch a movie about like someone up against challenges
who comes out ahead. Like, I love that.
I do not like being in the public eye.
I do not like doing an interview.
Sorry, I don't mind talking about the story itself, but I've
done public speaking to 5000 people.
I do not like doing that. Yeah, it's not my thing.
I totally. Respect.
You totally get it. Yeah, because I love.
Hearing stories like that, I get the draw.
So I I will talk about it because I think I like hearing
stories like that, you know, So I think that's, that's the only
reason I would do it. But I also never want people to
compare themselves like why? Why do I still have nightmares?
Why am I still struggling? Because everyone's journey is
totally, totally. I don't think.
Yeah, I just wouldn't want anyone to compare and ask
themselves why am I still having trouble, you know?
But I think it has been really interesting over the years when
I've gotten emails from people and people telling their stories
that I've gotten together for lunch with people.
And that part, that human connection part I love.
So like I, you know, I can appreciate the power of stories
where, you know, people survive and hopefully thrive on the
other end of it. Yeah.
Well, I think you're awesome. I think you're a very incredible
person and I think that you look fantastic, way better than what
you think you probably see. No, it's absolutely true.
People say oh your. Daughter looks just like you.
I'm like thank you because I think she's adorable.
She is adorable. She's here about.
She's not in the same room, but she's here.
She's a sweetheart for sure. OK, So what happened to the
bobcat? Or.
Yeah, what happened to the cat? Yeah.
Where's it at? OK, I need to.
Go back because I just realized I said that incorrectly as they
were airlifting me out, they saw what they thought was a body and
asked someone to go check on it. So there were sheriff deputies
on the ground at that time. They went off of the trails
close to where the bike, the abandoned bike was and they
found the body of Mark Reynolds. I will say one thing that they
learned, I guess from the autopsy is that he had no
defensive wounds. So he was surprised to the point
where he was not able to fight back.
OK, Because I, I've had in some ways I'm glad this happened so
long ago because the online comments I think I would have
difficulty with had a lot of people say, oh, I would do this,
I would do that. I would carry a gun.
I'd hit him. I'd do this.
You have absolutely. You have no idea what you're
talking. About for sure a cat this size.
Is so this cat was £120 a £130. Same exact weight as me.
A cat that size is capable of taking down an 800 LB bull elk.
Super powerful, like I said. They can.
Have a full size sheep or goat and jump a 6 to 8 foot wall.
They can jump horizontally 40 feet.
OK, so when that cat is 5 feet from me, not even 5 feet, the
cat was 3 feet from me. They can jump 40 feet
horizontally. Oh my gosh.
So for that cat to hit me from that close.
The impact was. Just unreal, you know?
So I think it's important to be aware of your surrounding.
But but one of the things that makes me sad, I will say, and
this is something I always say when I do public speaking, The
thing that makes me most sad is when people come up to be after
the fact and say, oh, I used to hike in waiting ranch.
And ever since your story, I don't.
Oh yeah, I. I hate that.
Because AI had zero warning. So there's nothing I could have
done differently to have prepared myself for that attack.
I had people with me, which I think is important.
There's nothing I could have done differently, right?
Even if I had had pepper spray, bear spray, a gun, there's
likely no way I would have gotten to it.
No, not at all. There's situations.
Where maybe you would surprise a cat on a trail face to face,
that'd be highly unlikely. But in that case, maybe some of
those things would work. But my point being, can't live
your life in fear. I think you can go into it
prepared as well as you can be, but you also can't live your
life in fear. Let that dictate.
Yeah, for sure. What you do.
Yeah. So keep hiking.
Did they ever? So did they ever?
Find a cat. Oh yes, sorry I didn't even get
to that. So as they airlifted me.
Out and they saw what they thought was a body who turned
out to be Mark Reynolds, the sheriff deputy they had infrared
with the helicopter using to you know, because it did get dark
shortly after like by the time I was airlifted out it was getting
dark so they could see with the heat seeking capability they saw
what they believed to be a cat. They sent the deputy that
direction and the cat actually stalked the deputy and he turned
around and shot. Yeah, so.
The cat at. That point, you know, people, I
got death threats from Mountain Lion Foundation, which is a
nonprofit, for being responsible for killing the cat.
I'm the biggest animal lover out there.
I'm a vegetarian for 40 years. I That is the most pathetic.
Thing I've ever heard. I love animals.
Like you can't imagine and but in a situation like that, when a
cat is displaying abnormal behavior like that, that is a
public safety risk, right? So people say, well, don't go
into their territory. Well, guess what, if you live in
a house, you're in their territory.
At some point your house was Mountain Lion territory.
So people who like to draw the line like, oh, no more building,
You know, I yes, we should have wilderness spaces, we should
have protected spaces. We should have wildlife
corridors that allow them to move without having to
crossroads and get hit, because that's most likely how they're
going to get killed, right. Let's be smart.
Let's keep little kids close. Let's keep, you know, like don't
leave food out. Let's be responsible living in
and among wildlife so that hopefully it doesn't come to
that where a cat needs to be killed.
But that cat at that point is displaying behavior that is
abnormal. They don't come after people.
They don't want to be seen. They're elusive.
They want to go the other way. So when they have switched and
their behavior is doing something different, it's not
something you can relocate or you can, you know.
So I feel like people do need to educate themselves a little bit
more about wildlife behavior, how to be safe in wilderness
areas, how to be a good, you know, steward of wilderness
lands, how to be, how to live harmoniously with wildlife
because we take responsibility too.
So, you know, that would that would be part of my message as
well. Awesome.
Yeah. Well, I, I'm glad you're here.
Thanks for sharing your story and thanks for closing out like
that because that was super helpful too, because I think
that'll show up some of the comments.
Probably not. But honestly, I don't.
Care because. The one thing I mean, there's a
local wildlife photographer in Orange County who has trail
cams, gets cat, gets cats on trail cams in different areas.
There's a certain park that's kind of close to the ocean where
cats are not seen as often as the lake.
Whiting Ranch is more by the foothills of National Forest and
you get cats there more often. Like the that professor at UC
Davis said where there's deer, there's mountain lions, right?
So if you see deer, there's mountain lions there, whether
you see them or not. O this wildlife photographer had
posted something talking about, oh, this, this certain
wilderness park never has cats, has never had cat activity.
My husband has seen one there and the guy's like saying, oh,
you don't. He didn't know what he's looking
at. I'm thinking, OK, the one thing
I know something about is mountain lions, you know?
Yeah, right. You're like.
You have any idea what you're talking about or who you're
talking to? Yeah, but it's like, yes.
They're out there. They don't want to be seen.
Let's be smart. Yeah.
Well, thanks for. Being here, I really appreciate
it. Thank you so much.
No problem.