Well, your house is beautiful. Thank you.
Thank you for having me here. Thank you for being willing.
Yeah, absolutely. And so normally I don't know a
whole lot about the person's story because I like to react to
the story with a real honest reaction.
And not that I wouldn't do that in your case at all, but I think
it's pretty hard not to know your story.
But I want you to have the opportunity to have your story
told how you want to Share your story.
And I know you get asked a lot of questions and you've been
interviewed hundreds and hundreds of times, probably
thousands of times. And so I want you to just to be
able to share what do you want to Share your story?
Like tell me, just start at the beginning.
OK. I mean, I, I guess starting at
the beginning would kind of just be like I LED.
I mean, I'd say a pretty privileged life.
I mean, I grew up in a nice neighborhood, grew up in a nice
home, had a nice family. I got to say we were very close.
It was almost like I lived in a bubble.
I could see things on the news, but it felt like, it really felt
like it was a different world, like it could never touch my
world. And I mean, I grew up playing
like night games. We lived in a cul-de-sac and
like we had there were neighbor kids and at night time we'd play
like kick the can during the summer or hide and go seek.
And it just felt like it was really kind of an ideal
childhood and I really couldn't imagine my life changing in any
kind of drastic way. It felt like it was a very safe
life and I wasn't a rebellious kid.
Like, I don't think I really ever pushed the limits.
Like I was a pretty, I don't know, vanilla kid, I guess.
And. That's a good word, yeah.
I mean, I was like, I just, I wasn't, I wasn't rebellious.
I wasn't a wild child. Like I pretty much did what I
was supposed to do. And yeah, I just, I just never
imagined anything bad could happen to me.
And it was, you know, the night before my junior high
graduation. Really.
Yeah, and we all went to bed like normal that night.
Like there was nothing wrong with that day, were you?
Prepping for the graduation the next day.
Yeah, Like I had like my, my dress that I specifically picked
out to wear. And I mean, my friends and I, we
were all like trying to make our summer plans together.
We're talking about what classes would take in high school, like
what clubs we wanted to try to join or become a part of.
I mean, I'd say it was a really exciting time, actually.
And yeah, just didn't have a clue that anything bad could
ever happen or was going to happen.
There was. I mean, some people talk about
how they had like, feelings of foreboding.
I never had that. There were no premonitions of
anything bad. It was good.
Life seemed really good. And then went to bed that night
just like I would any other night.
I shared a bedroom, I shared a bed with my little sister.
And the next thing I remember was waking up to a man holding a
knife to my neck saying don't make a sound, have a knife at
your neck, get up and come with me.
And that really was the beginning did.
You think you were dreaming. At first, yeah.
I didn't respond the first time you said it because there was no
way a man could be in my bedroom.
There was no way I could have a knife being held to my neck.
Those kinds of things didn't happen to me, couldn't happen to
me. And so I didn't immediately
respond. It wasn't until he said it a
second time that I actually opened my eyes and saw this
stranger standing my room, feeling a knife pressed against
my neck. And that's, yeah, that's when I
realized it was real. It wasn't a dream.
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Survey Oh my gosh. So you're in your room and your
sister, is she? How does she wake up?
Because you're getting out of the bed?
Does she wake up because she hears his voice?
So at the time, I thought she was asleep.
I didn't think she was awake. I mean, her eyes were closed.
I could hear just steady breathing.
And I didn't know what he would have done if I had screamed or
done anything different. I mean, I felt like I was
supposed to be the responsible one that protected my sister
from anything happening. And so I, I did what what I was
told to do. I mean, again, I feel like
you're taught so much safety education as a kid, Like, look
both ways before crossing the street.
There's fire drills. Everyone knows what you're
supposed to do if you catch on fire, stop, drop and roll.
All this safety education that I've been given didn't cover
anything like this. So I mean, I, I just felt like I
had to do what I was being told. And I remember he he
specifically pointed out what shoes he wanted me to take and
then he led me out through my house and we went out the back
door. So.
Wait, he how did he? He must have been in there.
How did he know what shoes you were supposed to take?
He must. Have so my I had AI had a walk
in closet and like I had initially reached, I mean, my
shoes were just all laid out on the floor and I reached for my
slippers initially and he's like, no, not those.
And he pointed to like my, my sneakers.
Yeah. Oh my gosh, yeah.
And then we just went down through my house because my
bedroom was on the top floor. I mean, it was probably one of
the highest points of our house. So we had to walk through the
middle of the house, down the stairs and then he took me out
the back kitchen door. So everybody must have slept the
doors closed in the house, is that right?
No. Wow.
No, all the doors were open. I mean, I used to think that
was, that was, I don't know, safer to have doors open now as
now as a parent, I'm like, the doors are shut.
I will hear them if they open them up.
Yeah, so now all of our doors are shut.
Oh my gosh. OK, so you're going through your
house and what happens next? Yeah, I mean he led me out
through my back door and my backyard.
It wasn't fenced. I mean we lived up on one of the
mountain sides overlooking the Salt Lake Valley and a lot of
our neighbors backyards weren't fenced.
They were just kind of open and ran together and he led me up
through there was a vacant lot that was Kitty corner to the
back of our our house. He led me up through that lot
where there's one more St. in the neighborhood and then it's
just mountains after that. And we got up to the street.
There was a row of bushes and he held me down behind the bushes
and then there were headlights coming towards us, which I
immediately thought, Oh my gosh, this is the getaway car.
He has this all planned out. I'm.
I'm going to be put in the back of this car.
My parents are eventually going to wake up.
They're going to realize that I'm gone.
They're going to call the police.
The police will bring dogs in. The dogs will track me up to
this point. And then they'll never find me
because I was put in a car. But this car, it didn't, I mean,
it was moving slowly, but it didn't slow down any further.
And it crossed right in front of me and it was actually a police
car. Oh.
My gosh. I know.
And I mean in that moment when it was in front of me, I
remember just thinking, wow, like the police, they just know
everything. Like they're already on my case.
They are. They know I've been taken out of
my house. But of course, the police
officer didn't know. Were you crouched down?
Like hiding behind a Bush. I mean, like, yeah, he was
holding me down on the ground. Like he had his knife on me,
holding me down behind, behind like a hedge.
And as soon as the police car was around the corner from where
we were at, I mean, he had me up and running across the street
and headed up into the mountains just about as quick as he could
have both of us move together while still holding a knife on
me. Did you sense?
What did you sense his emotions were during that time?
Was he nervous? Was he frantic?
I mean, as the car was getting closer to us, well, more like
crossing in front of us, I remember hearing him kind of
mumble, like, God, if this work is true, let this car pass.
And of course, the car did pass. And I remember just thinking,
what? I must have misheard that.
But like that, can't I? I can't have heard that, right.
And then. Yeah.
And then at that point, we were headed up into the mountain.
So I mean, he, I mean, he sounded anxious, but it also
felt like he knew what he was doing.
I mean, it felt like he had a plan and he was following
through with his plan. So he believed what he muttered.
I mean, at that point, like I didn't know if he was just.
I mean, it sounded strange. It sounded abnormal.
It didn't sound normal. But at the same time, I didn't
know if, like, I didn't know if that was just something he was
like, casually saying, yeah, yeah.
So at that point in time, I really didn't know what to
think. But as he was having me run up
into the mountains, I mean, I remember I tried to stop him a
few times. I tried to talk to him a few
times. I remember like one of the first
times talking to him, just saying, you know, if you're
going to me, could you please do it here?
Because it was important to me that my parents knew what had
happened to me. Like I, I didn't want them to
think that I ran away. Not that.
Not that I actually think they would have thought that of me.
I'm amazed you had that frame of mind to think that at 14.
But yeah, I feel like on the news, on the news, like a couple
days before, the National Center for Missing and Exploited
Children had come on and just ask people to leave their front
porch lights on all night so that any missing child, like, it
was like a sign to the missing children to come home.
Like it was in honor of that. And I'd remember seeing that on
the news. And so I'd remembered asking my
parents if we could leave the lights on that night on our
front porch. And then I remember there was
another news story around the time where there was a young
girl. And I think it was like the
friend of the dad maybe, or it was someone who had tried to
kidnap her. And he was like, I want to say
he was like hitting her with a hammer or like, maybe like, I
want to say he was smashing her face in, but she escaped.
I can't remember. I remember there was a news
story that was quite brutal. But she did live.
She got, she got away. And so I, like I, I knew that
kidnappings happened. I knew that like I knew that bad
things happened. I just never thought it could
happen to me. So are you saying that you asked
your parents to turn the lights on the night that he can't?
Not the night that I was. Kidnapped around that time.
But it was a couple nights before, yeah.
Oh man. Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I
was like an avid news watcher because saying this, I feel like
I'm hearing myself talk about multiple stories on the news.
But you know, when I'd go in to say goodnight to my parents,
they'd have the news on. So I'd sit and watch it with
them for a few minutes. So the the, the, the, the trail,
if there is a trail back to where he's taking you, it's
pretty far, right? Yeah.
I mean, initially there was like a very popular trail that we
started on, but then at a certain point he did turn off
the trail and we started just heading straight back into the
mountains where there was number trail.
I mean, I remember, like, the brush being so thick, having to
get down on my hands and knees and just crawl.
And I remember just asking him, like, why was he doing this?
Did he realize what he was doing?
That if he got caught, he'd spend the rest of his life in
prison? I remember telling him that if
he let me go, my family wouldn't press charges.
Just please, please, please let me go.
And I remember at that point, he just kind of smiled and looked
at me. And he's like, I know what the
consequences are. I know what I'm doing.
The only difference is I'm not going to get caught.
And like, I just, I just didn't know if that meant that I was
going to be, I didn't know if that meant that he was going to
just keep me. I mean, I do remember at one
point him saying he was going to keep me as a hostage.
And I remember just, I mean, he said, he said lots of things,
things like, yeah, he's keeping me hostage.
That all my aunt, that all my questions would be answered when
we got to where we were going, I asked where we were going.
And he just repeat kind of the same thing.
I remember. I mean, because I, I grew up
going to church every Sunday. And there's all the stories of
miracles like Noah and the ark, Daniel and the lion's den, David
and Goliath. I mean, all these stories of
just like extreme miracles. And I remember just thinking as
I was being brought up into the mountains, like, if you could
part the Red Sea for Moses, like, can you give me a trail?
Can you part, I don't know, part the mountains, part the brush,
give me an escape. I remember being so worried that
maybe I'd had a chance for escape and I hadn't taken it or
I wasn't brave enough to take it.
Now looking back there, there was not that chance like.
Sure. I I mean, the mountains were
very steep. I could not have moved up him
quickly. He was right there with me.
There was just no way I was going to get away.
But at the time, I remember just thinking, was that a chance?
Was that a chance? Did I miss my chance?
Like what's going to happen? What's going to happen next?
I was probably kidnapped around, I mean, probably two or three in
the morning. And I mean time, like I knew
time was passing, but the same time it seemed to be moving in
slow motion. But then I remember at one point
the sun was coming up and at that point we were crossing over
the top of the mountain and he was in a rush to get me down the
other side because my pyjamas were bright red.
And he didn't want like any early morning hiker or runner or
biker to see my red pyjamas. And so he was definitely in a
rush to get down the other side. As we started down the other
side, I mean, we came to a stand of trees, which, you know,
normal nothing that I could see stood out about it, but he
somehow knew this stand of trees.
And I remember he yelled out a name.
I remember he yelled out Hepzibah, which it's not a
common name. No, I would say no.
And I remember a voice yelled back Emmanuelle.
And he directed me into the stand of trees where part of the
mountainside had been levelled out.
There was a woman dressed really unlike anyone I'd ever seen
before. There was a tent set up.
There were tarps lying on the ground.
There were tarps hanging up in the trees.
OK, wow. Like there was a whole hidden
campsite that took a lot of work to build.
It wasn't just haphazard, it was thought out.
How long do you think he'd been up there?
At that point I had no idea. But I mean, certainly as more
time passed, I mean, he'd spent, he'd spend a lot of time up
there, not necessarily in that exact spot, but at some point in
time they had a teepee and they'd built the teepee up this
particular Canyon. And then they'd move the teepee
to another place up this Canyon. And they'd lived up there.
I mean, not through a winter, but summers.
I mean, they'd spent a fair amount of time up this up this
Canyon. So what is your when you're
getting to this camp, are you thinking in your mind, there's
nobody else that's going to be there?
This is where I'm going to die. He had said that his wife was
waiting for us so I knew that there was someone else that
would be there, but I I just couldn't imagine why anyone
would want to kidnap me. I just like again, I didn't
think my family had any enemies like I I had never as far as I
knew, really offended anyone before.
Like I was I was a good girl like why was this happening to
me? I just couldn't understand it.
So what happens next? So this woman, Hepsibah she, the
first thing she does was she just opened her arms and hugged
me. Oh, gross.
Yeah, and I remember, like when I saw the woman, honestly, I
felt relief because I thought if there was a woman there, then
nothing that bad could happen to me.
Like, no woman would just step aside and let another girl be
abused. So I felt relief initially.
And then like, when she hugged me, like I had little warning
bells going off because it didn't really feel like a
comforting hug. Kind of felt like a hug of like
aggression or dominance. And I remember she led me inside
of the tent. She sat me down on an upturned
bucket she'd brought in. Like this little small blue
basin had filled it with water, was starting to try to sponge
bathe me. I was.
Shy, awkward, self-conscious. I mean again, like, does anyone
go through junior high gracefully?
Does anyone go through puberty gracefully?
No, I don't think so. At least I didn't.
So I was just very self-conscious.
And I remember begging and pleading with her just to leave
me alone. If I had to change, I could
change myself. She didn't need to touch me.
She didn't eventually hand me like this sort of robe tunic
kind of thing. And I pulled it over my head.
I took my pajamas off underneath.
She scooped them all up and she walked out of the tent.
And I just, I mean, I really, I really didn't know what was
going on or like why this was happening to me.
I mean, this just seemed. So bizarre.
Yeah, yeah, just like this was not how kidnappings went.
Or any kidnapping I'd ever heard of, which granted was not a lot,
but I just like the ideas of kidnapping.
My mind were like someone telling you to go look for a
lost puppy or to see the puppies in their van.
It was like the man in the creeper van would be like handy
and then them grabbing you and like taking you to a dark
basement and chaining you up till they got what they wanted.
Like that was how kidnapping went in my mind.
So being brought up into the mountains, being forced to
change, like none of this was what I imagined A kidnapping to
be like. And then this man, he changed
out of the like, the sweatpants and sweatshirt that he initially
had on. And he changed into a robe just
like the one that I was forced to put on.
And he came in and he knelt down next to me.
And that's when he told me that I was now his wife.
And of course, I was not expecting that.
I remember just yelling out no, because you know who who expects
like some gross old man to all of a sudden say, oh, you're my
wife now, especially when you're only 14 years old.
And when I, when I screamed out no, he just looked at me and was
like, if you ever scream it like that again, I'll help you.
Oh my gosh. Like if it'll help you not
scream out, I can duct tape your mouth shut.
Of course I didn't want to be, didn't want my mouth duct tape
shut, so I told him I wouldn't scream.
But I actually tried to reason with him why this wasn't OK, why
this wasn't legal, why he couldn't do this.
And he really had the same response to every reason I gave
him, which was oh, it's now time to consummate our marriage.
Which, like, I'd never heard that before.
I'd never heard that phrase. I didn't know what he meant.
Right. Yeah, 14.
Gosh. Yeah, I mean, I barely knew what
sex was, and that still sounded disgusting and gross to me.
But, you know, I eventually figured out what he meant.
And I remember just thinking, if I can just hold him off, if I
can hold him off just long enough, someone will rescue me.
I just have to hold him off. So I remember even getting to
the point of desperation where I said things like, shouldn't we
at least get to know each other before this happens?
Like, shouldn't we? Like, I don't, I don't even
really know. I don't know who you are.
Like, I don't know your name. Like, OK.
Like I knew he was called Emmanuel, but I didn't know any
more than that. Did you know that you had that
fight in you, like with that personality?
Was that there before? I mean, it's so surprising to
me, somebody 14 years old that's able to sort of summon that
fight. Or was it like that moment
you're in, you're just like that desperation, that fight or
flight? I mean, I, so I grew up with
four brothers and I remember they'd always get to go off to
like scout camp and they'd get to like, I don't know, build
their igloos and sleep in it or like go river rafting or it just
always sounded so fun, whatever they got to do.
And I felt like, you know, I got stuck with, like, the girls
group learning how to sew on a button.
And I was like, this is stupid. I don't want to do this.
And so anytime I felt like there was an opportunity to prove that
I was as tough as they were, I took it.
Like, growing up, my parents had a cabin and it wasn't connected
to like, public water. There was a stream below it and
the stream there was a pump and the pump would pump water up
from the stream and it would be put in like this holding cell or
holding tank and then it would be pumped into the cabin.
We could not drink that water well.
Don't do that. Bad idea.
But you know, flush toilets, that was fine.
And I, I mean, I remember once, one early summer, my dad was
like, Kate, we need to go down. We need to clean this tank out
and he was like to my older brother, he's like, come on,
I'll low you down in there and I just need you to keep on like I
need you to scoop up the water in the bucket and I will pull
the bucket up and I'll dump it out.
And my older brother was like, I'm not going down there.
And I remember that moment being like, I'll go down there because
I just felt like I had to prove that I was as tough as there it.
Is yeah, there it is so. Like I guess I I was a good
girl, but I also like. Had that spunk.
Had, yeah, had a stubborn streak, maybe.
Sure. Me.
And I also think I just recognized that like I was in a
very dangerous situation. And I remember, like, having the
thought process that I needed to get these people to like me
because if they liked me, then they might not be as likely to
me. And so I, I mean, I remember
vividly having that thought process.
But yeah, I just, like, I remember just trying to do
everything I could to convince him to not me or at least wait a
little bit because if I could get him to wait a little bit,
like I really believed I was going to be rescued quickly.
Like, I didn't think this could go on.
Like, in my mind, I could just be like, this time next week,
I'm going to be sitting on the sofa in my living room.
Like, I can see the pattern on the rug in my mind's eye.
Like, I can see exactly what, like, the coffee table looks
like. I can see my mom like, cooking
over in the kitchen. Like, I could just see it so
clearly in my mind's eye. And so I remember just thinking
like, I just have to hold out. I just have to hold out long
enough. I just have to convince him to
wait. Unfortunately, I, I couldn't
convince him to wait. Ultimately he he did me.
And you know, at that point in my life, like I had such a naive
mind, like I just knew so little about the actual physical act of
sex. I just thought there was one way
to do it. Like I thought, you know, he you
just laid on your back and you had to face each other.
So I remember thinking that if I laid on my stomach, he wouldn't
be able to me found out. That doesn't matter.
Yeah, I Remember Me and then and I remember just begging him to
stop and telling him it heard and doesn't really matter what I
said. He when he finished, he got up
and kind of smiled and walked out of the tent.
And I just laid there feeling like devastated, being in a lot
of physical pain. I mean, I remember blood running
down my legs. I yeah, I just remember being in
a lot of pain. Like I'd just been kidnapped
from my family. I was scared I'd been taken away
from them, you know, And also because I went to church every
Sunday my whole life. Like, I had had a lot of lessons
on chastity parity, which was all about, like, waiting for
marriage before you had sex. And so I also felt like I was
ruined. Like I felt like I was unclean.
And nobody would want me now because I wasn't as good as as
everyone else. Nobody wanted someone who was
broken and dirty. Oh.
Man. And at that point, I honestly
don't remember if I passed out or if I just fell asleep.
But the next thing I remember was this man kneeling over me,
and he had a piece of metal cable wrapping it around my
ankle, bolting it like crushing bolts into place that I couldn't
run away so that I couldn't untwist it or escape.
And yeah, he had me chained up to a tree.
That's what I remember waking up to.
Wow, was the chain ever off of you?
So it was kind of on a, there was a piece of cable that was
bolted around 2, two different trees.
So there was a like, it was like strung through the camp and then
he'd made a loop around one end. See if.
You kind of go back and forth. And it was, it was locked.
There was like a a lock that had a key so he could lock it onto
this cable. And I could like move a little
bit, like enough to use the bucket and enough to lie down
inside the tent. And that was about it.
And then he wore the key around his neck all the time.
What? What month is this?
June early. June, beginning of June.
OK. So it's warmer at least, OK.
And yeah, I mean, the only time he would unlock me, I'd still
have like the metal cable around my ankle that didn't come off
till he eventually cut it off. Oh my.
Gosh. But he'd initially hold it so it
was like I was on a leash. And then as more time passed, he
would let me hold it myself. But, you know, it was a trip
hazard. Like it would have been very
difficult to run away with that. I mean, being chained up the way
I was. Yeah.
It would have. It would have caught.
It would have been. He would have caught me.
Yeah. Yeah.
So what's next? Well, I mean, they gave me like
a new name. They said I couldn't.
They gave you a new name. Yeah, they said my name was no
longer Elizabeth. They started talking about how
God had commanded them to kidnap me, how they hadn't actually
really wanted to, how I was. I should be grateful that I had
been chosen by God and that I might not see it right now, but
one day I would. And one day I'd come to love him
as a wife, truly loves her husband.
And that one day I would have kids with him.
And one day I would, you know, we would come back into
civilization and we would be like the world's last hope.
And I would stop anyone from trying to take him to prison
because he was my husband. And I would eventually love him
at that point. It's so delusional, my gosh.
I mean, it sounds, it does sound delusional, but like, ultimately
what he liked was, was power. He liked to feel important.
Yeah, for sure. And he'd found, I mean, he had
LED like, honestly, he should have never, he should have never
been able to kidnap me. He should have been caught years
before. Oh, wow.
Like, he had done terrible things.
Oh, wow. Well before he ever kidnapped
me. And like, there should have been
interventions. He should have spent time, had
he been quiet, doing those. Things.
People knew about it, but like, no one had ever reported him or
if they had, nothing had ever come of it.
But I mean, he had been married like my, the, my other captor.
That was his third marriage. And like he'd had, he'd had kids
with his first wife, his second wife.
He had stepdaughters and like, I mean, he, he had sexually abused
them. Like he would watch them shower.
Like he knew his second wife was afraid of mice, so he would he
caught a whole bunch of mice like they were dead and then
he'd like fill the oven up with dead mice or like stick them
under the burners. Like he, like just.
Cruel. Yeah, he was a bad person.
Like even in the time when he was in in high school, he was
bad. Like he terrorized the other
kids in the neighborhood. Like would put them in rabbit
cages and pee on him. Oh my gosh, really?
Yeah, like he really should have never been able to kidnap me.
Like he should have been caught years before.
He'd lived, like his whole life, he'd been a predator.
Oh. My gosh.
Yeah. And like, he'd stalked women and
like, yeah, he was, he was a he was a monster.
So yeah, he really liked power. He really liked control.
He liked feeling important. And I think he'd found the best
way to manipulate people, particularly in Utah, was to say
it was part of his religion. And that's how we got away with
a lot of things that he did. I mean, people ever questioned
him. He'd be like, oh, this is part
of my religion. And that usually would shut
people down. And I think also, if you look at
that time period, 9/11 had only happened, yeah, you know, nine
months earlier. And so I think he really, he was
smart, and I think he knew how to behave.
He knew how to dress. He knew how to act that would
cause people to stay away from him.
And I mean, he got away with it, got away with it for a long
time. Did he believe his intentions
were from God? Like legitimately do you think?
Do you think he was psychotic? I think, well, during the trial,
there was a piece of evidence that was brought in that was a
letter that he had written, I think it was to his mom, years
and years earlier. And it talked about how he was a
good actor. And so I think it's really hard
for me to say that I think he was crazy or psychotic because
you couldn't do everything he did and get away with it if you
were. Yeah, if you were not smart.
Oh no, now he's obviously an intelligent gay.
But I think so, I think early on he'd found that religion was a
really good way to manipulate people, was a really good way to
feel like important and you could control other people
through religion. And so I think he had this
facade and I mean, like it wasn't straight out-of-the-box,
like I'm, I'm a prophet of God, like I'm the next Davidic king.
It wasn't one day he was like working his normal job and then
the next day coming out with that.
I think it was just kind of little by little, like layer by
layer. And I think he had had this
facade for so long that I think he did have himself convinced to
a point. But I also think he did know
what he was doing and like he just, he just wanted to a little
girl. Oh man, wow.
My daughter's 16, she's blonde, blue hair, blue eyes, and
watching your documentary was that was rough.
Yeah, I'm. Thinking about her.
He would have easily targeted her because I wasn't the only
girl. I wasn't the only girl he had
initially tried to kidnap and then like he had plans to kidnap
other girls. He was just looking for the
right target. Was there a an attempt like on
your cousin, I think right? There was an attempt on my
cousin and then during my time in captivity he had moved us to
Southern California for the winter and he had actually
attempted to kidnap another young girl.
Fortunately, neither were successful.
Yeah, what? What was this?
What stopped it? The first one was he had cut
through a screen on a window and he started to move the blinds
and, and my cousin had like glass ornament trinkets on the
window sill and he had pushed the blinds instead of lifting
them and some of them had crashed off.
And my uncle's bedroom was just close down the hall.
And my uncle had heard it and he had just run into her room,
slammed the lights on, yelling her name.
And it was before he'd gotten through the window.
It was before he was like even. Like his arm wasn't even through
the window at that point. So by the time your uncle got
there, he had bolted. He was.
Gone. I mean, he heard he heard my
uncle yell her name and he was out of there.
Yeah. And then the second attempt, he
actually never saw the girl in real life, but he had, he had
scouted out different churches in the area.
And, you know, like, typically people who go to church are
really kind, welcoming people. And I think that's wonderful.
And there was a couple who had really welcomed him and they're
like, why don't you come over for dinner tonight?
And he went over to their house for dinner.
He saw a picture, just a picture of a young girl.
And he was like, oh, you know, who's this?
And they're like, oh, it's you know, it's my daughter from my
first husband, from my first marriage.
And you know, she spends splits her time between his house and
our house. And she's with him right now.
And and so he's like, oh, you know, when, when do you get her
like, like, do you get her often or, you know, and it's just
conversation. He figured out when the mother
had time with her daughter and when she was with her father.
And so he then like like a figured out that in a few weeks
that she'd be with her mom. And that's when he decided he
was going to go after her. So the night that he went after
her, he made it to her house. He found a sliding door that was
open. He started to open the door,
started to step in the house. And I bet, I bet most people
think snoring's not a blessing. But he heard.
Some man just having deep bear like snores and he knew to reach
the girl he'd have to get in past this man snoring.
And at that point he just decided it wasn't, it wasn't
worth the risk. And when he got back into camp,
he was like, it was a test of our faith.
Like when Abraham had to take his son Isaac up the mountain to
slay him because God commanded him to.
It was a test of Abraham's faith.
And then God was like, don't slay your precious son like he's
yours. I'm not going to take him.
And he's like, this is that same kind of trial.
We were tested to see if we truly trusted God and we passed
the test. Oh my gosh, you you telling the
story how you're it's there's no way he could have been psychotic
to be able to have to have dinner with somebody, to sit
down with somebody, to have intelligent conversations, to
ask questions, very specific questions about a picture to
that's not that's that's very you're a smart guy.
You're building your case, your crime, you're doing something to
plan and premeditate and to do something to harm and hurt
people. That's.
I mean narcissist, absolutely. For sure.
Like megalomaniac, definitely like.
Self absorbed everything, yeah. Predatory, no doubt.
Wow. OK, so what's happening now?
I mean, really, the next nine months we're just filled with.
The same. Different layers of of abuse,
sexual, emotional, just pretty horrific.
Like starvation, Dehydration. Intentional starvation.
To a point, yeah, yeah. I mean, some of it was just
because there was no food and he didn't want to go out and bring
any back. But also like they did, they did
monitor what I ate. I only got to eat what they gave
me. And like one time, I mean, he
used to sometimes bring people's leftovers back to camp.
Like he'd dig through garbage cans and bring people's
leftovers to camp. And one time he'd found like
half a burrito, like a pretty, pretty big burrito, not like a
little frozen one, but a pretty big one in a garbage can.
And he brought it back to camp. And he's like, oh, look what I
brought. Look what I brought both of you
to Wanda Barzee, my other captor, and myself.
And she cut it in half. And then she was like, oh, you
choose what half? And I mean, like the end of the
burrito, you know, had the extra flap of tortilla.
And I was starving. And she's like, oh, she's
telling me I can choose. So I chose that half.
And then I got in trouble for choosing that half.
Like she just was like, God clearly hasn't humbled you
enough. And like you should recognize
I'm more important than you. And you know, you should just be
aware that you are. I mean, she called me her
handmaiden, but like slave and you know, you should have known
better than taking this. So I mean, I got in trouble for
taking the half a burrito or I guess really the quarter of
burrito that had the extra flap of tortilla.
But it I mean, it was just a lot of things like that that
happened. I mean, and everything they did
they justified by using God or scripture or like they used to
have terrible fights. Like I've never seen a couple
like scream at each other the way that they did.
I mean, I've seen my parents have disagreements, but I've
never heard them scream at each other.
And these two would scream at each other and a lot of time it
was over me because Wanda Barzee would be jealous because he'd be
paying me attention and and she'd be like, oh, you're just
lusting after her. And I'm the mother of Zion and I
have a throne waiting for me in heaven.
And like, she was like, you know, I'm a queen and.
Did you ever think that or did they ever think that somebody
would hear them? I mean, was it that remote where
nobody was afraid to speak loudly or scream or yell like?
I mean, in the early days it was quiet.
It was quiet. But as months went on, it was it
didn't matter as much. Wow.
Oh my gosh. So take me back down to what's
happening, sort of rewind what happens here, Now you're gone,
What takes place? Here.
So my sister, she actually was awake when I was being
kidnapped. She saw it happen, but I mean,
her eyes weren't wide open. She didn't want him to know she
was awake. He could have killed her.
She actually thought he had a gun.
How old was she? She was 99.
Wow. So, you know, just just young,
just little. And we had an alarm system on
our house. And so after he'd gotten me up,
she kept waiting for the alarm system to go off and it never
went off. So she thought he was still in
the house. And she waited and waited.
And then she finally like got her courage up and went into my
parents bedroom and, you know, went to my dad's side of the bed
1st and he was in a pretty deep sleep so didn't immediately
respond. And then went around to my mom's
side of the bed. And she was like, my mom was
like, what are you doing? Why are you out of bed?
Like, you should be in bed. You should be asleep.
Come on, I'll take you back to your room.
And my sister was like, no, Elizabeth's gone, Mom, Elizabeth
is gone. And my mom was like, no, I'm
sure she's just in another room because, yeah, of course.
My little sister, like, she's really at least back then, she
was, like, a really hot sleeper. And she liked to, like, cuddle
right up next to me. And I hated it.
And she, like, steal the blankets.
And sometimes she kicked in her sleep.
And so it wasn't like that strange for me to, like, go into
my baby brother's room where he hadn't fully transitioned from
the crib to the toddler bed or go lie on the sofa downstairs in
the kitchen. I mean, that wasn't like, that
wasn't that strange for me to do that.
And someone was like, oh, we'll find her.
It's fine. And by this point, my dad had
woken up. So I'm like, OK, let's go find
her. When they're checking all the
rooms and, you know, with each room they're checking and I'm
not there, they're becoming more and more worried.
They go down to the kitchen or they go down the stairs.
My dad turned to go to like the formal living room, which I
would never have gone in there. And my mom turned to go in the
kitchen. Like the panic is there at this
point. She's just, like slamming on the
lights. Her eye goes immediately to the
window above the kitchen sink. She saw the screen cut.
My little sister's just in the background saying, you're not
going to find her. A man came and took her.
And that's just when my mom screams to my dad.
I'd call 911. Elizabeth is gone.
Oh. My.
Gosh, yeah. And then as far as I understand,
just chaos erupted at that point, like my parents were
calling all the neighbors. Were their daughters gone?
Had anyone seen or heard anything?
I think the police or the FBI were a bit upset with my parents
because all the neighbors were running over.
And then they're like, you've contaminated the crime scene.
And yeah, just from that moment on, it was just panic and chaos
and confusion. And, you know, my family was
interrogated and like, did any of them have something to do
with my disappearance? And my parents were very closely
looked at. And my uncles were looked at
even like my older brother and my brother just younger than me,
like they were looked at. Which when I eventually heard
that they were being considered, I remember just thinking, this
is just ridiculous. Like no one in my family would
ever hurt me. You know, now that I've like
worked in child safety and advocacy for, you know, the last
20 years, like I, I realized that most kidnappings are family
related or someone that you know, And so it is common to
consider the parents. But when I first heard that I
was like, this is ridiculous. This is this is so stupid.
How could anyone think that? My parents wasting your time?
Yeah, Yeah. And I mean, I remember my dad
telling me how people would go to the police and be like, oh,
Ed's smart. He and then he he like, buried
her in the walls of the house and like, just just craziness.
And, you know, my dad and my parents had built our house
themselves. And, you know, they'd like, if
they need help with something, they had, you know, found the
workers to come and work. And so they were making lists of
everyone who had been to the house.
And at one point, my, like, in this list, there was a name on
the list that the police were like, oh, well, did you know
this man was a felon? I mean, I was like, no, you
know, he came to us highly recommended from like our, our
local church. Like he's like, I thought he'd
been fully vetted, like Noah had no idea.
And they're like, well, yeah, he's, he's spent time in prison.
And so he became like the main suspect.
And, you know, he there was mileage on his Jeep that he just
wouldn't say where it was from. Why?
Why was that? I have no idea.
But he never would say where
this, you know, extra couple 100 miles had come from.
And so, you know, police thought he'd kidnapped me.
He'd driven me out into the desert me buried me and driven
back. That's just what they thought
had happened. And then, you know, he had a
brain aneurysm in prison or in jail and, and died.
And my, my grandpa, he was, he was a doctor.
And he's like, I just know Elizabeth hit him on the head
and he that's why he had a brain aneurysm.
Good for her. Yeah, of course it wasn't him.
But when he died, the police were like, she's gone.
Like we probably, we probably won't ever find her.
What? Was that initial night, like
when they were trying to find you, what did they do?
Do you remember or do you remember hearing about that at
all? Like what were the police?
Was it just? It was just chaos.
I mean, as far as like they had come.
In it was a dog that they sent out or something, right?
I mean, there were dogs. I don't know if that happened
that first night, but I know that dogs were brought in and
the dogs could only track us up to the road where the police
card passed right in front of us.
Which like, I was like, well, I never got in a car.
Like how could my son have just disappeared?
Oh, they OK, so they thought when you got to the road she
obviously jumped in a car. Because the dogs, like, couldn't
track anything any further. That was as far as they ever got
there. There was a trail, yeah.
Why didn't they go up the trail? Like I, I don't know, I think
maybe they did, but the dogs just didn't pick anything up.
But I mean, it's where I was brought.
It's where I was taken. I don't know.
I don't know if enough people had then gone over it before,
before the dogs were brought in. I I don't know.
Wow. And he, he had eventually
brought you back into town, right?
Yes, but it was not down that trail.
Oh wow. It was a different trail.
Wow, OK. Yeah, I was only ever taken up
that, not that that specific trail the first night I was
kidnapped. Yeah.
What was that like for you coming back into town?
I mean, initially it was like very hopeful that someone was
going to recognize me, that someone was going to do
something. But also by that time, like I
had lived under their threats for so long and they followed
through with what they said they were going to do to me and they
threatened my family and they felt invincible.
So I was, I was excited to go down into town, but I was also
nervous. And I mean, one of them was
always right in front of me. One of them was always right
behind me. It was almost like they were
touching me like the whole time. And I mean, I've, I've been
questioned so many times about, well, why didn't you scream?
Why didn't you yell? Why didn't you just run away?
It was not that simple. And I think when you step back,
like I'm not the only one who's had that response.
I think you can look at, you know, victims of domestic
violence and you can be like, well, you have a car, you have
money, you have a phone. Why don't you just leave?
Like it's never, it's never that simple.
Like these people are monsters. They're, they're predators.
They put so much, they instill so much fear inside of you and
you recognize just how capable they are of hurting you or
hurting someone you love, that you are just in such a state of
survival. That's all you can think of.
And survival usually means doing what they tell you to do and
minimizing consequences at all cost.
Was there? There was a moment though, that
you were in a like a library or something, and a policeman came.
So before he took us to Southern California, they decided, you
know, we weren't going to survive a a winter in Utah.
We need to to find somewhere to go.
We need to look at some maps. We could go to the Public
Library and look at a whole bunch of different maps and
someone had seen us. Someone had suspected us.
They called the police. A homicide detective approached
us in the library. Oh, wow.
Somebody. Had called the police because
they thought it was you. I didn't realize.
That like they just, yeah, they thought it was me or they just
thought it was strange. It seemed suspicious.
And I guess it was a couple different phone calls that the
police had called or had received.
And I mean, this detective, he was plain clothes.
He just flashed his badge as he got closer to us.
I didn't even know what the word homicide meant at that point in
time. And he's like, I'm a homicide
detective. We've had a few phone calls
about a missing girl. You know, I just need to see, I
just need to see her face because I was I was like
completely failed and covered up at that point.
And again, my captors had the perfect excuse to not show my
face because it was this is part of our religion and it would be
against our religion for you to see your face.
And I'm sorry, like I'm sorry, but only her, only her family
and her future husband will ever see your face.
And I mean, I was sitting down next to Wanda Barzee.
And as soon as this man said he was a homicide detective, like
her hand had just like clenched down on my leg.
And it was just like, it was just, it was just like reliving
being kidnapped all over. It was just like a reminder of
what they were capable of. And there's that saying, you
know, the evil you know is better than the evil you don't
know. And, and like, I didn't know if
that police officer would believe me.
I didn't know if he was actually capable of protecting me.
No one had protected me thus far.
No one had stopped them from hurting me thus far.
So. So there was a part of you that
was probably like, please don't figure this out to like, like
the police, like I don't want them to know that this is me
because I'm in more danger. I wouldn't say that I wanted, I
wanted to be rescued. I wanted to be saved, but I also
wanted it to be in a way that my family wouldn't be put in danger
and that I wouldn't be put in danger.
And I didn't know, like how that would all work out.
So I didn't necessarily know what the right rescue would look
like, but I just knew it needed to look like I wasn't like
making a break for freedom because I felt like, I mean, I
was 14 years old. I felt like they were
invincible. Yeah.
OK, So when this happened, was this in where where were you at?
Was this in This was Salt Lake. This was Salt Lake.
OK. So then they bring you back up
and there was another time that you they got you on the bus,
right? They put you on a bus.
So to get to Southern California, yeah, we rode the
Greyhound bus. What was that like?
It was, it was stressful. Like the morning that we were
catching the bus, it was really, really early.
And I remember sitting in the bus depot just looking at the
people around me, just hoping that someone would recognize who
I was. And I remember like staring at
this one woman who looked like maybe she was a mother and just
hoping she would help me. And I remember her just looking
back at me and kind of snarling at me and being like, like, what
are you staring at? Why don't you take that rag off
your face? And just kind of hearing that
just made me just deflate. Made me feel like, oh, no one,
no one is here to help me. Like no one would even believe
me if I were to say something because we look different.
And that wasn't such an uncommon response to us.
I mean, I remember seeing people when they'd be walking down the
same side of the street as us. They'd look up, they'd see us,
they'd cross the street, keep walking, and then once they were
past us, they'd cross back over. Or when people would drive by in
their car, sometimes they'd roll their window, their windows out
and yell things like Osama or bin Laden out of us.
So like it wasn't that uncommon of a of a response that felt
that felt pretty devastating. Yeah.
So when did you finally get rescued?
So it had been, it had been nine months and we were still in
Southern California and they started to talk of like other
places, other locations to go to try to kidnap other young girls.
And because this was after his second attempt had failed and
they were talking about big cities far, far away like New
York or Philadelphia. And I just remember thinking, if
we ever make it there, I'll never be found.
No one would ever expect to see Elizabeth Smart in in any of
those locations. And I didn't even really know if
the search was still going on for me at that point.
And I just knew that my best chance of being rescued was to
get back to Utah. And I knew how they acted.
I mean, I'd watched them for nine months.
I'd been a victim of of their manipulation for nine months.
So I knew how they did it. And I remember just trying to
doubt on them. I remember just being like, oh,
you know, I know God would never speak to me like I'm too sinful.
You're you're his, you're his prophet, though.
I know he'd tell you if we're supposed to go back by just I
just have this feeling like we're supposed to go back to
Utah, but could you please ask him because like, I just know
he'll answer you over me. And like, I think in that
moment, it made him feel important.
It made him feel like I would guess that my last barrier
against him had come down. I think it probably made him
feel like I was accepting him on every level because although
like in the nine months that he had me, like he always did what
he wanted, but he always knew that I didn't want it.
I didn't want to be, I didn't want to be abused.
Like he always knew. And I think in that moment, he
just felt like this was me just accepting him completely.
And so he ended up being like, oh, I think you're right.
We should return to Salt Lake. And I had a plan for that too,
because they had always talked about how they'd traveled all
over the country and the different forms of travel.
And, and they used to say things to me like, oh, you know, it's
important for you to experience this so that you know that
you're no better than anyone else.
It's important for you to experience alcohol because right
now you just think you're so pure.
You just think you're so righteous, but you're no better
than any drunk bum in the street.
And, and one time they'd forced me to like drink so much.
I'd thrown up and passed out in like my own vomit and it had
gotten all in my hair and my face.
And I woke up the next morning and I was crushed into the
ground. Oh my gosh.
They just kind of laughed at me and been like, oh, you know, God
was just revealing your true form, like your true level of
spirituality and it's face down in your own vomit.
And so yeah, like they had just used their God talk for
everything. And you know, they don't just
talked about how it was important for me to experience
all of these these things. So I knew I wasn't better than
anyone else that say things like it's important for you to
descend below all things before you can rise above all things.
And they talked about how hard like they're hitchhiking travels
had been and and I remember thinking that is exactly how I
need to travel back to Utah because getting in someone
else's car, like that's someone else's space, like they won't
have the same power or control over the situation if we're in
someone's so. Smart.
If we're in someone else's space and someone is going to notice
that this is not normal, that this is not right, so.
That's so impressive. I had convinced them to
hitchhike back. That was an adventure.
I think there were some people along the way who suspected that
it wasn't right, but they just couldn't figure it out.
They couldn't figure out like. They just thought there was a
bunch of weird people. Or they yeah, the situation was
strange. Or I think I heard during the
trial that even one person went to the police station to look at
missing people, but they just couldn't figure out who it was.
But that's, that's how we made it back to Utah.
That's how we made it back to Salt Lake.
And it was the first day that we were back that I was rescued.
I mean my captors. Wow, the.
First day? Yeah, the first day.
Like just just, I don't even know if it was an hour we were
in the Salt Lake Valley that I was rescued.
We were walking up State Street. My captors were in a rush to get
me up into the mountains because they're like, you're never
coming down again. But honestly, like, that felt
fine to me because I just felt like, well, physically I am that
much closer to my family. So like, yeah, we were walking
up State Street and all of a sudden there were police cars
pulling up around us and officers were jumping out and
they were questioning my captors, questioning me.
And again, I had a captor standing on either side of me.
They were both physically touching me.
Like, I just felt like it was too risky to immediately speak
up, to immediately say who I was.
And it wasn't until one of the officers separated me from my
captors that I eventually admitted who I was.
But my captors were, they were close enough to me that they
could hear what was going on. And like, they had a specific
way of speaking. I mean, they didn't use like you
yours. It was thee thine thou.
And so I had just felt like if I responded in the way that they
usually spoke, that maybe they wouldn't know what I was
responding to. And I was really scared to
answer with my name 'cause it was like if I answered with my
name, my real name, if I just said yes, I'm Elizabeth Smart,
they would hear me. And what if they got out of jail
or out of prison? What if they weren't locked up?
What if somehow they were released?
Like, I had no doubts they'd come back after me.
And they'd probably, this time, they probably wouldn't just come
after me. They'd come after my family.
I mean, I didn't like know the legal system.
I didn't know what happened. I mean, couldn't people get out
on bail? Like I I just didn't know.
And so I didn't want them to hear me saying who I was.
And so I answered the way that they spoke, which was by saying
when one of the officers was like, are you Elizabeth Smart?
I responded with thou sayest because that was how they spoke.
And I didn't want them to hear me flat out admitting who I was,
because then they'd be upset with me and they'd come back
after me and I might be punished and they might punish my family.
Wow. What was that?
What? What did?
What did what? What was his face?
What was his demeanor when you said that?
That police officer, remember, oh, I mean, they weren't
comforting at all. Like they were very aggressive.
They were very abrasive like. With you or them or just like.
With everyone, I mean, I was. I then had my hands put behind
my back. I was handcuffed and put in the
back of the police car, which immediately made made me think,
Oh my gosh, I said the wrong thing.
Wow, is that just like procedure?
I mean, at the time, like, I, I mean, I at the time I thought I
was in trouble. But like I had, I've had lots of
police sense be like, Oh, well, you know, like they should not
have done that. But you hadn't just immediately
said who you were, so they probably didn't know if you were
a threat or not. I've had police officers be
like, yeah, you know what? Like police put their lives on
the line every day. You never know what someone is
capable of. So best practices is if
someone's in the back of the car, they are handcuffed.
I mean, you don't want them like pulling on the door handle and
jumping out of the car as well. So it's just, it was just best
practices. Plus I think nobody expected me
to come back alive. I think pretty much everyone
thought they were just looking for a body at that point.
Can you just take me back your sister?
Because I think people might I, I obviously most people listen
to this, know your story, but there's going to be people that
don't know your story and your sister.
People might be like, well, how did the police find you?
Talk to me about that. So my sister had initially
described the man who kidnapped me.
And I mean, the police had my, my parents were obviously very
protective of her. They didn't just want her to be
like interrogated and interrogated and interrogated,
but they had allowed the police to question her.
They had to be in the room with her.
And she's given them these answers.
And then eventually, at some point, they're like, well, let
us try to hypnotize her. You know, maybe more will come
to the surface. Also, she's nine years old.
Like, she, she might just remember things.
She's 9. Let's let's remember she's 9.
Yeah, like she's probably telling it to the best of her
ability, but can we really take the word of a nine year old?
And so they had done all these interviews, and really, her
description of him never changed.
And one day, she's just sitting in our bedroom randomly looking
at the Guinness Book of World Records.
And she just came across this one page of, like, this
extremely muscular woman. And my dad happened to walk in
in that moment. And my sister was like, Dad, I
think I know who kidnapped Elizabeth.
And she's like, it was, it was Emmanuel.
It was that guy who came and worked at her house just one
day, just just one time. And she's like, I think it was
him. And so my dad went to the
police. They said he he said, I think
Mary Catherine knows who kidnapped her.
It's this guy named Emmanuel, and the police were kind of
like, no, it's just Richard Reesey.
Like, yeah, we think we know who it is.
Yeah, they had already figured it out.
Sure. And my dad was like, no, like,
we don't have anything else. Like, can we just look into him?
And so they kind of humored my dad and they're like, OK, we'll
bring a sketch artist in and you can.
Really. It was, this was just like,
yeah, we'll just let's just do this because he's complaining or
something. Yeah.
Wow and so they had like 2 of my brothers come in and they tried
to describe him and my dad was like well what about me?
I spent more time with him than anybody.
Like the boys were hardly even around him so why can't I do?
Once they're like, OK, you can do, you can do a sketch of him.
And so they did a sketch of him and they're like, OK, well,
we're not going to release this because we don't want him to
know that we're looking into him or anything like that.
And they just told my dad to keep it quiet.
But my dad, he had become friends with John Walsh of
America's Most Wanted, and he had called John Walsh up and he
had explained the situation. And John Walsh was like, no, we
need to go public with this. We need to, like, have everyone
looking for him. We need to do everything we can.
And that, I think it was that night or it was very quickly
after John Walsh went on Larry King Live, and that's when the
sketch was released. Yeah.
Wow. And then because that sketch was
released, Brian Mitchell, my captor, his brother-in-law, saw
the sketch and the name Emmanuel had been put out.
And that's when the brother-in-law was like, do you
think it's possible? Like, do you think it's possible
that it could be, you know, your brother to his wife?
And he called up the police and he was like, I think I know who
you're looking for. And that's what led to my
rescue. Wow.
Oh my gosh. Wow.
What? What were the, what were the
next, you know, six months, year, 18 months, two years after
you were rescued? What was that like for you?
It was a it was a huge change, just learning that I couldn't go
back. Like there was no such thing as
returning to the old normal. All of a sudden, everybody knew
my name. Everybody recognized me.
Everybody wanted to talk to me, tell me stories about where they
were the day that I was rescued or or their search stories for
me, or how they prayed for me for nine months.
Or how, you know, they slept with their parents.
Or the parents would tell me about how their kids slept with
them every night after I was kidnapped.
I just had so many people telling me their stories and
their experiences around my kidnapping.
And then as I got older, telling me their stories about being
abused or being and feeling like since I'd got through it, they
could get through it. And all of it was a huge, it was
a huge change for me because I'd say naturally, like I'm, I'm a
homebody, naturally I'm a bit of an introvert.
And so it was, it was a huge change.
It was, I mean, it was exhausting, like having just
everyone wanting to talk to me and like, I, so I will forever
be grateful. I there's never been a day
that's gone by that I have not been grateful for the search
efforts, the love, the support, everything that I've received.
Like I will be grateful for the rest of my life, but it's still,
it's still was overwhelming. I mean, I used to get letters
from prison from inmates being like, if I'm ever in the same
room with him, you don't have to worry about him ever again.
Or like randomly I'd get like proposals in the mail and
engagement rings in the mail. I mean, it was, it was wild.
Wow, what was it like going back to high school?
I was very excited to go back to high school because when I've
been kidnapped, I felt like everything had been taken away
from me. And when I was rescued, I was
like, I don't want to miss out on anything ever again.
So I was very excited to go back to high school.
But I mean, it was it was different.
I can't help but wonder if maybe parents had warned their kids
not to ask me questions or, you know, not to like just to be
sensitive around me. And maybe that stopped people
from because they didn't know how to act around me from maybe
becoming like more friendly with me.
But I feel like my friends who were friends with me before I
was kidnapped, they were still my friends with me after.
And as they'd made more friends in high school and invited them
into our group, But those people realized that like I was just
just another kid. And so I think maybe it was it
was probably a pretty different high school experience than
other kids experience. Plus, you know, I had people who
were wanting to interview me and like, they're like, I still was
in the news fairly often because of the trial and that taking so
long. And I mean, it wasn't just like
how? Did that take?
It was, I mean, it was so long that I was called into the US
Attorney's office of Utah. And he, it was like, yeah,
there's a statute of limitations, which means if that
statute of limitations passes and he's not convicted, it's not
gone to trial, he will be released.
And are you interested in pressing federal charges?
Of course, Gee. Let me think about.
That he would have come back after me again.
And if he didn't come back after me, he'd go after some other
girl. So I mean, it was, it had been
in the state courts for about 5 years.
It was moved to the federal courts.
And that of course, took time to get their case together.
But they brought in the top experts.
And I'm so grateful for that. And then, you know, the defense
was always like, well, he's not competent to stand trial.
Well, we're trying to prove his competency.
It was always a question of is he competent now?
Was he competent when he committed this crime?
Which like, part of me was just like, are you kidding me?
Was there ever any question that he did this crime, whether he
was competent or not? Like he committed a felony?
Like he kidnapped me. He held me hostage for nine
months. He abused me.
He me, like, it shouldn't matter.
He should be in prison the rest of his life.
I mean honestly like I was OK with him having his life ended
quicker but. I don't blame you at all.
So, I mean, it took the better part of a decade before my case
was finally sentenced. Oh.
My gosh. Yeah.
What was that Dave like for you? I mean, it was a relief.
I mean, it felt like finally, by the time that my case finally
came to court, I'd been in France.
I was living in France at the time, and I came back from
France and they're like, well, we just really need you for your
testimony. And then you can go back to
France if you want. And I was just like, no, I'm
going to stay here until it's done.
Like I don't want to have to go through this again if I get
recalled to the stand at some point, like I'm going to be here
and. I did.
I was there every single day in court until it was finished.
And then when it was finished and the verdict came back,
guilty on all counts. I mean, it was, it was a relief.
I was like, finally, this is the end of this chapter.
Wow, that's incredible. I have one big question for you.
Ask everybody and I honestly don't know the answer to this.
I thought I would know the answers, but I don't know the
answer to this question for you. If you could go back in time and
stop that night from ever happening, would you do it?
I'm going to go with no because I have learned so much.
I have found a purpose for my life that I don't know I would
have otherwise found. I think you could have told me
about sexual exploitation and violence and kidnapping and
abuse. And if I saw a fundraiser or a
bake sale, I'd be like, yeah, here's 100 bucks, good luck,
keep going. But I don't know that I would
have gotten that much involved further than that.
And I probably would not have met my husband.
And if I hadn't met my husband, I wouldn't have my children.
I wouldn't have the life that I have today.
And despite everything, like I am happy and I do have a good
life. And I, for as terrible as
everything was, I am grateful for who I am today.
That's that's. I'm so glad you answered it that
way. I really am.
I think that's that's important for people to hear that because
I think that your work today is so important and what you do is
so important and the incredible amount of people that you've
helped is so important and you're here and you're alive and
you're doing great things. And so I think you're a pretty
incredible person. Well.
Thank you. So appreciate you doing this and
thanks for being here and all the things and letting us come
to your house and love the dog. Anybody was wondering that was
the dog and anything else? I think that's everything.
That's it. And that's all she wrote.
Appreciate it. Thanks.
Thank you.