1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:02,440
Well, your house is beautiful. 
Thank you. 

2
00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,080
Thank you for having me here. 
Thank you for being willing. 

3
00:00:05,080 --> 00:00:10,880
Yeah, absolutely. 
And so normally I don't know a 

4
00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:15,880
whole lot about the person's 
story because I like to react to

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00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:18,720
the story with a real honest 
reaction. 

6
00:00:18,720 --> 00:00:21,800
And not that I wouldn't do that 
in your case at all, but I think

7
00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:23,280
it's pretty hard not to know 
your story. 

8
00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,320
But I want you to have the 
opportunity to have your story 

9
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:29,040
told how you want to Share your 
story. 

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00:00:30,040 --> 00:00:32,960
And I know you get asked a lot 
of questions and you've been 

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interviewed hundreds and 
hundreds of times, probably 

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thousands of times. 
And so I want you to just to be 

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00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:43,160
able to share what do you want 
to Share your story? 

14
00:00:43,160 --> 00:00:45,960
Like tell me, just start at the 
beginning. 

15
00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:50,360
OK. 
I mean, I, I guess starting at 

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the beginning would kind of just
be like I LED. 

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00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:57,000
I mean, I'd say a pretty 
privileged life. 

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I mean, I grew up in a nice 
neighborhood, grew up in a nice 

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home, had a nice family. 
I got to say we were very close.

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It was almost like I lived in a 
bubble. 

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I could see things on the news, 
but it felt like, it really felt

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like it was a different world, 
like it could never touch my 

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world. 
And I mean, I grew up playing 

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like night games. 
We lived in a cul-de-sac and 

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like we had there were neighbor 
kids and at night time we'd play

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like kick the can during the 
summer or hide and go seek. 

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And it just felt like it was 
really kind of an ideal 

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childhood and I really couldn't 
imagine my life changing in any 

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kind of drastic way. 
It felt like it was a very safe 

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life and I wasn't a rebellious 
kid. 

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Like, I don't think I really 
ever pushed the limits. 

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Like I was a pretty, I don't 
know, vanilla kid, I guess. 

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And. 
That's a good word, yeah. 

34
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I mean, I was like, I just, I 
wasn't, I wasn't rebellious. 

35
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I wasn't a wild child. 
Like I pretty much did what I 

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was supposed to do. 
And yeah, I just, I just never 

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imagined anything bad could 
happen to me. 

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And it was, you know, the night 
before my junior high 

39
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graduation. 
Really. 

40
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Yeah, and we all went to bed 
like normal that night. 

41
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Like there was nothing wrong 
with that day, were you? 

42
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Prepping for the graduation the 
next day. 

43
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Yeah, Like I had like my, my 
dress that I specifically picked

44
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out to wear. 
And I mean, my friends and I, we

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were all like trying to make our
summer plans together. 

46
00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,520
We're talking about what classes
would take in high school, like 

47
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what clubs we wanted to try to 
join or become a part of. 

48
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I mean, I'd say it was a really 
exciting time, actually. 

49
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:59,080
And yeah, just didn't have a 
clue that anything bad could 

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00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:01,080
ever happen or was going to 
happen. 

51
00:03:01,080 --> 00:03:03,240
There was. 
I mean, some people talk about 

52
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how they had like, feelings of 
foreboding. 

53
00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,200
I never had that. 
There were no premonitions of 

54
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anything bad. 
It was good. 

55
00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:13,400
Life seemed really good. 
And then went to bed that night 

56
00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:14,960
just like I would any other 
night. 

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I shared a bedroom, I shared a 
bed with my little sister. 

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And the next thing I remember 
was waking up to a man holding a

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knife to my neck saying don't 
make a sound, have a knife at 

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your neck, get up and come with 
me. 

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And that really was the 
beginning did. 

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00:03:32,240 --> 00:03:34,520
You think you were dreaming. 
At first, yeah. 

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I didn't respond the first time 
you said it because there was no

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way a man could be in my 
bedroom. 

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There was no way I could have a 
knife being held to my neck. 

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Those kinds of things didn't 
happen to me, couldn't happen to

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me. 
And so I didn't immediately 

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respond. 
It wasn't until he said it a 

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second time that I actually 
opened my eyes and saw this 

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stranger standing my room, 
feeling a knife pressed against 

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my neck. 
And that's, yeah, that's when I 

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realized it was real. 
It wasn't a dream. 

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If you spend any time in the 
Backcountry, you know how 

74
00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,200
quickly things can change. 
And that's exactly why I use the

75
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:15,160
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Onyx Backcountry is built on one

76
00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:18,160
simple idea, better maps, and it
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77
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,399
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head out, so even when you lose 

78
00:04:21,399 --> 00:04:24,200
service you still know exactly 
where you are, where you're 

79
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,280
going, and what's around you. 
I also love the disperse camping

80
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later. 
It makes it easy to find legal 

81
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:32,800
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82
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83
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It's basically like having a 

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90
00:04:57,920 --> 00:05:06,240
Survey Oh my gosh. 
So you're in your room and your 

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00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:08,560
sister, is she? 
How does she wake up? 

92
00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:09,640
Because you're getting out of 
the bed? 

93
00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:11,760
Does she wake up because she 
hears his voice? 

94
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:15,720
So at the time, I thought she 
was asleep. 

95
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:19,000
I didn't think she was awake. 
I mean, her eyes were closed. 

96
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I could hear just steady 
breathing. 

97
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And I didn't know what he would 
have done if I had screamed or 

98
00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:31,200
done anything different. 
I mean, I felt like I was 

99
00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:35,080
supposed to be the responsible 
one that protected my sister 

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from anything happening. 
And so I, I did what what I was 

101
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:43,600
told to do. 
I mean, again, I feel like 

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you're taught so much safety 
education as a kid, Like, look 

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both ways before crossing the 
street. 

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00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,560
There's fire drills. 
Everyone knows what you're 

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00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,960
supposed to do if you catch on 
fire, stop, drop and roll. 

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All this safety education that 
I've been given didn't cover 

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anything like this. 
So I mean, I, I just felt like I

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had to do what I was being told.
And I remember he he 

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00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,800
specifically pointed out what 
shoes he wanted me to take and 

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then he led me out through my 
house and we went out the back 

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door. 
So. 

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00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:19,000
Wait, he how did he? 
He must have been in there. 

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How did he know what shoes you 
were supposed to take? 

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00:06:20,880 --> 00:06:24,160
He must. 
Have so my I had AI had a walk 

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in closet and like I had 
initially reached, I mean, my 

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shoes were just all laid out on 
the floor and I reached for my 

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00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,560
slippers initially and he's 
like, no, not those. 

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00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,440
And he pointed to like my, my 
sneakers. 

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00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,640
Yeah. 
Oh my gosh, yeah. 

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00:06:44,840 --> 00:06:48,800
And then we just went down 
through my house because my 

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00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,840
bedroom was on the top floor. 
I mean, it was probably one of 

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00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,800
the highest points of our house.
So we had to walk through the 

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00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,440
middle of the house, down the 
stairs and then he took me out 

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00:06:58,440 --> 00:07:01,120
the back kitchen door. 
So everybody must have slept the

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00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,600
doors closed in the house, is 
that right? 

126
00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,000
No. 
Wow. 

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00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,360
No, all the doors were open. 
I mean, I used to think that 

128
00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:14,240
was, that was, I don't know, 
safer to have doors open now as 

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00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:16,040
now as a parent, I'm like, the 
doors are shut. 

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00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,120
I will hear them if they open 
them up. 

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00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:24,040
Yeah, so now all of our doors 
are shut. 

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00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,000
Oh my gosh. 
OK, so you're going through your

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00:07:27,000 --> 00:07:31,880
house and what happens next? 
Yeah, I mean he led me out 

134
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,520
through my back door and my 
backyard. 

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00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:37,720
It wasn't fenced. 
I mean we lived up on one of the

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00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:41,040
mountain sides overlooking the 
Salt Lake Valley and a lot of 

137
00:07:41,040 --> 00:07:42,760
our neighbors backyards weren't 
fenced. 

138
00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,520
They were just kind of open and 
ran together and he led me up 

139
00:07:46,520 --> 00:07:50,400
through there was a vacant lot 
that was Kitty corner to the 

140
00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:53,920
back of our our house. 
He led me up through that lot 

141
00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:57,400
where there's one more St. in 
the neighborhood and then it's 

142
00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:00,920
just mountains after that. 
And we got up to the street. 

143
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:06,800
There was a row of bushes and he
held me down behind the bushes 

144
00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:11,800
and then there were headlights 
coming towards us, which I 

145
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,320
immediately thought, Oh my gosh,
this is the getaway car. 

146
00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,080
He has this all planned out. 
I'm. 

147
00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:19,480
I'm going to be put in the back 
of this car. 

148
00:08:19,800 --> 00:08:21,600
My parents are eventually going 
to wake up. 

149
00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:23,200
They're going to realize that 
I'm gone. 

150
00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:24,600
They're going to call the 
police. 

151
00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,680
The police will bring dogs in. 
The dogs will track me up to 

152
00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:30,040
this point. 
And then they'll never find me 

153
00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:34,280
because I was put in a car. 
But this car, it didn't, I mean,

154
00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,360
it was moving slowly, but it 
didn't slow down any further. 

155
00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:40,840
And it crossed right in front of
me and it was actually a police 

156
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:41,360
car. 
Oh. 

157
00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:43,280
My gosh. 
I know. 

158
00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:46,920
And I mean in that moment when 
it was in front of me, I 

159
00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,160
remember just thinking, wow, 
like the police, they just know 

160
00:08:50,160 --> 00:08:53,640
everything. 
Like they're already on my case.

161
00:08:53,880 --> 00:08:56,280
They are. 
They know I've been taken out of

162
00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,280
my house. 
But of course, the police 

163
00:08:59,280 --> 00:09:01,680
officer didn't know. 
Were you crouched down? 

164
00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,440
Like hiding behind a Bush. 
I mean, like, yeah, he was 

165
00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,160
holding me down on the ground. 
Like he had his knife on me, 

166
00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:10,880
holding me down behind, behind 
like a hedge. 

167
00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:15,000
And as soon as the police car 
was around the corner from where

168
00:09:15,000 --> 00:09:18,400
we were at, I mean, he had me up
and running across the street 

169
00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,280
and headed up into the mountains
just about as quick as he could 

170
00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,520
have both of us move together 
while still holding a knife on 

171
00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:26,560
me. 
Did you sense? 

172
00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:29,000
What did you sense his emotions 
were during that time? 

173
00:09:29,000 --> 00:09:31,200
Was he nervous? 
Was he frantic? 

174
00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:36,200
I mean, as the car was getting 
closer to us, well, more like 

175
00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,080
crossing in front of us, I 
remember hearing him kind of 

176
00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:44,920
mumble, like, God, if this work 
is true, let this car pass. 

177
00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:49,880
And of course, the car did pass.
And I remember just thinking, 

178
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:54,440
what? 
I must have misheard that. 

179
00:09:54,440 --> 00:09:58,960
But like that, can't I? 
I can't have heard that, right. 

180
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:05,040
And then. 
Yeah. 

181
00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:07,320
And then at that point, we were 
headed up into the mountain. 

182
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:14,760
So I mean, he, I mean, he 
sounded anxious, but it also 

183
00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:17,280
felt like he knew what he was 
doing. 

184
00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,200
I mean, it felt like he had a 
plan and he was following 

185
00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,880
through with his plan. 
So he believed what he muttered.

186
00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:31,120
I mean, at that point, like I 
didn't know if he was just. 

187
00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:35,560
I mean, it sounded strange. 
It sounded abnormal. 

188
00:10:35,560 --> 00:10:38,760
It didn't sound normal. 
But at the same time, I didn't 

189
00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:46,560
know if, like, I didn't know if 
that was just something he was 

190
00:10:46,560 --> 00:10:51,720
like, casually saying, yeah, 
yeah. 

191
00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:55,840
So at that point in time, I 
really didn't know what to 

192
00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,280
think. 
But as he was having me run up 

193
00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:03,880
into the mountains, I mean, I 
remember I tried to stop him a 

194
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:05,680
few times. 
I tried to talk to him a few 

195
00:11:05,680 --> 00:11:10,840
times. 
I remember like one of the first

196
00:11:10,840 --> 00:11:13,320
times talking to him, just 
saying, you know, if you're 

197
00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,920
going to me, could you please do
it here? 

198
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,080
Because it was important to me 
that my parents knew what had 

199
00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,200
happened to me. 
Like I, I didn't want them to 

200
00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:23,880
think that I ran away. 
Not that. 

201
00:11:24,280 --> 00:11:27,080
Not that I actually think they 
would have thought that of me. 

202
00:11:27,680 --> 00:11:31,360
I'm amazed you had that frame of
mind to think that at 14. 

203
00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:39,000
But yeah, I feel like on the 
news, on the news, like a couple

204
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:42,480
days before, the National Center
for Missing and Exploited 

205
00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,320
Children had come on and just 
ask people to leave their front 

206
00:11:46,320 --> 00:11:52,320
porch lights on all night so 
that any missing child, like, it

207
00:11:52,320 --> 00:11:55,120
was like a sign to the missing 
children to come home. 

208
00:11:55,320 --> 00:11:58,280
Like it was in honor of that. 
And I'd remember seeing that on 

209
00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:00,120
the news. 
And so I'd remembered asking my 

210
00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:02,960
parents if we could leave the 
lights on that night on our 

211
00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,920
front porch. 
And then I remember there was 

212
00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:09,640
another news story around the 
time where there was a young 

213
00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:11,520
girl. 
And I think it was like the 

214
00:12:11,520 --> 00:12:15,560
friend of the dad maybe, or it 
was someone who had tried to 

215
00:12:15,560 --> 00:12:18,000
kidnap her. 
And he was like, I want to say 

216
00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:22,120
he was like hitting her with a 
hammer or like, maybe like, I 

217
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:24,600
want to say he was smashing her 
face in, but she escaped. 

218
00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,240
I can't remember. 
I remember there was a news 

219
00:12:27,240 --> 00:12:31,760
story that was quite brutal. 
But she did live. 

220
00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,080
She got, she got away. 
And so I, like I, I knew that 

221
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,600
kidnappings happened. 
I knew that like I knew that bad

222
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:42,000
things happened. 
I just never thought it could 

223
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:44,400
happen to me. 
So are you saying that you asked

224
00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,760
your parents to turn the lights 
on the night that he can't? 

225
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:49,040
Not the night that I was. 
Kidnapped around that time. 

226
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:50,720
But it was a couple nights 
before, yeah. 

227
00:12:51,680 --> 00:12:54,800
Oh man. 
Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't say I 

228
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,120
was like an avid news watcher 
because saying this, I feel like

229
00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,920
I'm hearing myself talk about 
multiple stories on the news. 

230
00:13:02,560 --> 00:13:05,120
But you know, when I'd go in to 
say goodnight to my parents, 

231
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,200
they'd have the news on. 
So I'd sit and watch it with 

232
00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:13,400
them for a few minutes. 
So the the, the, the, the trail,

233
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:15,400
if there is a trail back to 
where he's taking you, it's 

234
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:17,120
pretty far, right? 
Yeah. 

235
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,840
I mean, initially there was like
a very popular trail that we 

236
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:25,600
started on, but then at a 
certain point he did turn off 

237
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:30,520
the trail and we started just 
heading straight back into the 

238
00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:32,240
mountains where there was number
trail. 

239
00:13:32,240 --> 00:13:36,200
I mean, I remember, like, the 
brush being so thick, having to 

240
00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:38,400
get down on my hands and knees 
and just crawl. 

241
00:13:39,280 --> 00:13:44,240
And I remember just asking him, 
like, why was he doing this? 

242
00:13:44,240 --> 00:13:46,160
Did he realize what he was 
doing? 

243
00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,480
That if he got caught, he'd 
spend the rest of his life in 

244
00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:51,840
prison? 
I remember telling him that if 

245
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,400
he let me go, my family wouldn't
press charges. 

246
00:13:54,400 --> 00:13:56,680
Just please, please, please let 
me go. 

247
00:13:57,160 --> 00:13:59,960
And I remember at that point, he
just kind of smiled and looked 

248
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:01,040
at me. 
And he's like, I know what the 

249
00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:03,320
consequences are. 
I know what I'm doing. 

250
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,760
The only difference is I'm not 
going to get caught. 

251
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,840
And like, I just, I just didn't 
know if that meant that I was 

252
00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:15,920
going to be, I didn't know if 
that meant that he was going to 

253
00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,840
just keep me. 
I mean, I do remember at one 

254
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:21,880
point him saying he was going to
keep me as a hostage. 

255
00:14:22,480 --> 00:14:32,960
And I remember just, I mean, he 
said, he said lots of things, 

256
00:14:32,960 --> 00:14:35,320
things like, yeah, he's keeping 
me hostage. 

257
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,520
That all my aunt, that all my 
questions would be answered when

258
00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:42,600
we got to where we were going, I
asked where we were going. 

259
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,920
And he just repeat kind of the 
same thing. 

260
00:14:48,040 --> 00:14:50,400
I remember. 
I mean, because I, I grew up 

261
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:55,320
going to church every Sunday. 
And there's all the stories of 

262
00:14:55,320 --> 00:15:00,280
miracles like Noah and the ark, 
Daniel and the lion's den, David

263
00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:03,720
and Goliath. 
I mean, all these stories of 

264
00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:07,040
just like extreme miracles. 
And I remember just thinking as 

265
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,600
I was being brought up into the 
mountains, like, if you could 

266
00:15:11,520 --> 00:15:16,080
part the Red Sea for Moses, 
like, can you give me a trail? 

267
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:20,040
Can you part, I don't know, part
the mountains, part the brush, 

268
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,120
give me an escape. 
I remember being so worried that

269
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,880
maybe I'd had a chance for 
escape and I hadn't taken it or 

270
00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:28,760
I wasn't brave enough to take 
it. 

271
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,720
Now looking back there, there 
was not that chance like. 

272
00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:36,480
Sure. 
I I mean, the mountains were 

273
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:38,440
very steep. 
I could not have moved up him 

274
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,880
quickly. 
He was right there with me. 

275
00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:42,680
There was just no way I was 
going to get away. 

276
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:45,400
But at the time, I remember just
thinking, was that a chance? 

277
00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,560
Was that a chance? 
Did I miss my chance? 

278
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,320
Like what's going to happen? 
What's going to happen next? 

279
00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,920
I was probably kidnapped around,
I mean, probably two or three in

280
00:15:57,920 --> 00:16:04,600
the morning. 
And I mean time, like I knew 

281
00:16:04,600 --> 00:16:09,080
time was passing, but the same 
time it seemed to be moving in 

282
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:12,400
slow motion. 
But then I remember at one point

283
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:16,840
the sun was coming up and at 
that point we were crossing over

284
00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:20,360
the top of the mountain and he 
was in a rush to get me down the

285
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:24,080
other side because my pyjamas 
were bright red. 

286
00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:29,560
And he didn't want like any 
early morning hiker or runner or

287
00:16:29,560 --> 00:16:34,360
biker to see my red pyjamas. 
And so he was definitely in a 

288
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:39,000
rush to get down the other side.
As we started down the other 

289
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:44,640
side, I mean, we came to a stand
of trees, which, you know, 

290
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:50,640
normal nothing that I could see 
stood out about it, but he 

291
00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:52,800
somehow knew this stand of 
trees. 

292
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:55,320
And I remember he yelled out a 
name. 

293
00:16:55,320 --> 00:16:59,120
I remember he yelled out 
Hepzibah, which it's not a 

294
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:01,440
common name. 
No, I would say no. 

295
00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:05,880
And I remember a voice yelled 
back Emmanuelle. 

296
00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:12,040
And he directed me into the 
stand of trees where part of the

297
00:17:12,040 --> 00:17:13,920
mountainside had been levelled 
out. 

298
00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:20,160
There was a woman dressed really
unlike anyone I'd ever seen 

299
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:22,920
before. 
There was a tent set up. 

300
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:24,520
There were tarps lying on the 
ground. 

301
00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:26,520
There were tarps hanging up in 
the trees. 

302
00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:29,400
OK, wow. 
Like there was a whole hidden 

303
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,920
campsite that took a lot of work
to build. 

304
00:17:32,920 --> 00:17:36,800
It wasn't just haphazard, it was
thought out. 

305
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:38,120
How long do you think he'd been 
up there? 

306
00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:44,280
At that point I had no idea. 
But I mean, certainly as more 

307
00:17:44,280 --> 00:17:47,880
time passed, I mean, he'd spent,
he'd spend a lot of time up 

308
00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:52,000
there, not necessarily in that 
exact spot, but at some point in

309
00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:55,800
time they had a teepee and 
they'd built the teepee up this 

310
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:58,560
particular Canyon. 
And then they'd move the teepee 

311
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:02,440
to another place up this Canyon.
And they'd lived up there. 

312
00:18:02,440 --> 00:18:05,160
I mean, not through a winter, 
but summers. 

313
00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,200
I mean, they'd spent a fair 
amount of time up this up this 

314
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:15,880
Canyon. 
So what is your when you're 

315
00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,360
getting to this camp, are you 
thinking in your mind, there's 

316
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:20,400
nobody else that's going to be 
there? 

317
00:18:20,400 --> 00:18:24,200
This is where I'm going to die. 
He had said that his wife was 

318
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:29,280
waiting for us so I knew that 
there was someone else that 

319
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:36,200
would be there, but I I just 
couldn't imagine why anyone 

320
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:41,040
would want to kidnap me. 
I just like again, I didn't 

321
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:47,120
think my family had any enemies 
like I I had never as far as I 

322
00:18:47,120 --> 00:18:49,760
knew, really offended anyone 
before. 

323
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:56,800
Like I was I was a good girl 
like why was this happening to 

324
00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:58,640
me? 
I just couldn't understand it. 

325
00:19:00,680 --> 00:19:08,440
So what happens next? 
So this woman, Hepsibah she, the

326
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:12,200
first thing she does was she 
just opened her arms and hugged 

327
00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:13,440
me. 
Oh, gross. 

328
00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:19,280
Yeah, and I remember, like when 
I saw the woman, honestly, I 

329
00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,280
felt relief because I thought if
there was a woman there, then 

330
00:19:23,280 --> 00:19:25,240
nothing that bad could happen to
me. 

331
00:19:25,480 --> 00:19:30,640
Like, no woman would just step 
aside and let another girl be 

332
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:33,480
abused. 
So I felt relief initially. 

333
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:36,560
And then like, when she hugged 
me, like I had little warning 

334
00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,200
bells going off because it 
didn't really feel like a 

335
00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,920
comforting hug. 
Kind of felt like a hug of like 

336
00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:47,680
aggression or dominance. 
And I remember she led me inside

337
00:19:47,680 --> 00:19:50,320
of the tent. 
She sat me down on an upturned 

338
00:19:50,320 --> 00:19:54,000
bucket she'd brought in. 
Like this little small blue 

339
00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,680
basin had filled it with water, 
was starting to try to sponge 

340
00:19:57,680 --> 00:19:59,240
bathe me. 
I was. 

341
00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:05,840
Shy, awkward, self-conscious. 
I mean again, like, does anyone 

342
00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:07,520
go through junior high 
gracefully? 

343
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:09,920
Does anyone go through puberty 
gracefully? 

344
00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,240
No, I don't think so. 
At least I didn't. 

345
00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:16,200
So I was just very 
self-conscious. 

346
00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:23,160
And I remember begging and 
pleading with her just to leave 

347
00:20:23,160 --> 00:20:25,120
me alone. 
If I had to change, I could 

348
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:27,640
change myself. 
She didn't need to touch me. 

349
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:32,920
She didn't eventually hand me 
like this sort of robe tunic 

350
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,880
kind of thing. 
And I pulled it over my head. 

351
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,880
I took my pajamas off 
underneath. 

352
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,440
She scooped them all up and she 
walked out of the tent. 

353
00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:49,960
And I just, I mean, I really, I 
really didn't know what was 

354
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,000
going on or like why this was 
happening to me. 

355
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:55,480
I mean, this just seemed. 
So bizarre. 

356
00:20:55,520 --> 00:21:00,800
Yeah, yeah, just like this was 
not how kidnappings went. 

357
00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:05,360
Or any kidnapping I'd ever heard
of, which granted was not a lot,

358
00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:09,600
but I just like the ideas of 
kidnapping. 

359
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,760
My mind were like someone 
telling you to go look for a 

360
00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:17,000
lost puppy or to see the puppies
in their van. 

361
00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,960
It was like the man in the 
creeper van would be like handy 

362
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,960
and then them grabbing you and 
like taking you to a dark 

363
00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:28,680
basement and chaining you up 
till they got what they wanted. 

364
00:21:28,680 --> 00:21:31,800
Like that was how kidnapping 
went in my mind. 

365
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,600
So being brought up into the 
mountains, being forced to 

366
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:40,120
change, like none of this was 
what I imagined A kidnapping to 

367
00:21:40,120 --> 00:21:48,400
be like. 
And then this man, he changed 

368
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:53,400
out of the like, the sweatpants 
and sweatshirt that he initially

369
00:21:53,400 --> 00:21:58,080
had on. 
And he changed into a robe just 

370
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:00,640
like the one that I was forced 
to put on. 

371
00:22:01,320 --> 00:22:03,280
And he came in and he knelt down
next to me. 

372
00:22:03,280 --> 00:22:06,040
And that's when he told me that 
I was now his wife. 

373
00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:10,040
And of course, I was not 
expecting that. 

374
00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:16,480
I remember just yelling out no, 
because you know who who expects

375
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:20,280
like some gross old man to all 
of a sudden say, oh, you're my 

376
00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,480
wife now, especially when you're
only 14 years old. 

377
00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:30,360
And when I, when I screamed out 
no, he just looked at me and was

378
00:22:30,360 --> 00:22:33,120
like, if you ever scream it like
that again, I'll help you. 

379
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:34,960
Oh my gosh. 
Like if it'll help you not 

380
00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:36,840
scream out, I can duct tape your
mouth shut. 

381
00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,880
Of course I didn't want to be, 
didn't want my mouth duct tape 

382
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,360
shut, so I told him I wouldn't 
scream. 

383
00:22:41,360 --> 00:22:45,760
But I actually tried to reason 
with him why this wasn't OK, why

384
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,400
this wasn't legal, why he 
couldn't do this. 

385
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:52,760
And he really had the same 
response to every reason I gave 

386
00:22:52,760 --> 00:22:56,400
him, which was oh, it's now time
to consummate our marriage. 

387
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:59,840
Which, like, I'd never heard 
that before. 

388
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:01,920
I'd never heard that phrase. 
I didn't know what he meant. 

389
00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,320
Right. 
Yeah, 14. 

390
00:23:03,520 --> 00:23:05,320
Gosh. 
Yeah, I mean, I barely knew what

391
00:23:05,320 --> 00:23:09,280
sex was, and that still sounded 
disgusting and gross to me. 

392
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:14,600
But, you know, I eventually 
figured out what he meant. 

393
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,560
And I remember just thinking, if
I can just hold him off, if I 

394
00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,120
can hold him off just long 
enough, someone will rescue me. 

395
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,080
I just have to hold him off. 
So I remember even getting to 

396
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,840
the point of desperation where I
said things like, shouldn't we 

397
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,480
at least get to know each other 
before this happens? 

398
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:33,080
Like, shouldn't we? 
Like, I don't, I don't even 

399
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,120
really know. 
I don't know who you are. 

400
00:23:35,120 --> 00:23:39,080
Like, I don't know your name. 
Like, OK. 

401
00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:41,640
Like I knew he was called 
Emmanuel, but I didn't know any 

402
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,360
more than that. 
Did you know that you had that 

403
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:46,720
fight in you, like with that 
personality? 

404
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,280
Was that there before? 
I mean, it's so surprising to 

405
00:23:49,280 --> 00:23:52,000
me, somebody 14 years old that's
able to sort of summon that 

406
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,320
fight. 
Or was it like that moment 

407
00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,520
you're in, you're just like that
desperation, that fight or 

408
00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:01,280
flight? 
I mean, I, so I grew up with 

409
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:04,880
four brothers and I remember 
they'd always get to go off to 

410
00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,960
like scout camp and they'd get 
to like, I don't know, build 

411
00:24:08,960 --> 00:24:14,200
their igloos and sleep in it or 
like go river rafting or it just

412
00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,000
always sounded so fun, whatever 
they got to do. 

413
00:24:17,000 --> 00:24:21,000
And I felt like, you know, I got
stuck with, like, the girls 

414
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:23,000
group learning how to sew on a 
button. 

415
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:25,800
And I was like, this is stupid. 
I don't want to do this. 

416
00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,640
And so anytime I felt like there
was an opportunity to prove that

417
00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:32,280
I was as tough as they were, I 
took it. 

418
00:24:32,440 --> 00:24:37,560
Like, growing up, my parents had
a cabin and it wasn't connected 

419
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:40,960
to like, public water. 
There was a stream below it and 

420
00:24:40,960 --> 00:24:44,600
the stream there was a pump and 
the pump would pump water up 

421
00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:47,640
from the stream and it would be 
put in like this holding cell or

422
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,200
holding tank and then it would 
be pumped into the cabin. 

423
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:53,760
We could not drink that water 
well. 

424
00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:55,200
Don't do that. 
Bad idea. 

425
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,920
But you know, flush toilets, 
that was fine. 

426
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:04,520
And I, I mean, I remember once, 
one early summer, my dad was 

427
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,280
like, Kate, we need to go down. 
We need to clean this tank out 

428
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:10,800
and he was like to my older 
brother, he's like, come on, 

429
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:14,600
I'll low you down in there and I
just need you to keep on like I 

430
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,720
need you to scoop up the water 
in the bucket and I will pull 

431
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,840
the bucket up and I'll dump it 
out. 

432
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,560
And my older brother was like, 
I'm not going down there. 

433
00:25:22,560 --> 00:25:24,880
And I remember that moment being
like, I'll go down there because

434
00:25:25,240 --> 00:25:28,080
I just felt like I had to prove 
that I was as tough as there it.

435
00:25:28,080 --> 00:25:35,640
Is yeah, there it is so. 
Like I guess I I was a good 

436
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:38,600
girl, but I also like. 
Had that spunk. 

437
00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,240
Had, yeah, had a stubborn 
streak, maybe. 

438
00:25:41,240 --> 00:25:41,960
Sure. 
Me. 

439
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:46,840
And I also think I just 
recognized that like I was in a 

440
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:52,600
very dangerous situation. 
And I remember, like, having the

441
00:25:52,600 --> 00:25:57,800
thought process that I needed to
get these people to like me 

442
00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,640
because if they liked me, then 
they might not be as likely to 

443
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:07,320
me. 
And so I, I mean, I remember 

444
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:09,760
vividly having that thought 
process. 

445
00:26:10,400 --> 00:26:14,200
But yeah, I just, like, I 
remember just trying to do 

446
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:20,040
everything I could to convince 
him to not me or at least wait a

447
00:26:20,040 --> 00:26:22,480
little bit because if I could 
get him to wait a little bit, 

448
00:26:22,480 --> 00:26:25,600
like I really believed I was 
going to be rescued quickly. 

449
00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:27,600
Like, I didn't think this could 
go on. 

450
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,360
Like, in my mind, I could just 
be like, this time next week, 

451
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,520
I'm going to be sitting on the 
sofa in my living room. 

452
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:36,680
Like, I can see the pattern on 
the rug in my mind's eye. 

453
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:40,000
Like, I can see exactly what, 
like, the coffee table looks 

454
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:42,480
like. 
I can see my mom like, cooking 

455
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:45,360
over in the kitchen. 
Like, I could just see it so 

456
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:49,280
clearly in my mind's eye. 
And so I remember just thinking 

457
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:52,400
like, I just have to hold out. 
I just have to hold out long 

458
00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:53,880
enough. 
I just have to convince him to 

459
00:26:53,880 --> 00:26:59,160
wait. 
Unfortunately, I, I couldn't 

460
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:03,200
convince him to wait. 
Ultimately he he did me. 

461
00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:10,320
And you know, at that point in 
my life, like I had such a naive

462
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:17,320
mind, like I just knew so little
about the actual physical act of

463
00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:19,400
sex. 
I just thought there was one way

464
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:23,320
to do it. 
Like I thought, you know, he you

465
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,000
just laid on your back and you 
had to face each other. 

466
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,400
So I remember thinking that if I
laid on my stomach, he wouldn't 

467
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:35,120
be able to me found out. 
That doesn't matter. 

468
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:40,640
Yeah, I Remember Me and then and
I remember just begging him to 

469
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,240
stop and telling him it heard 
and doesn't really matter what I

470
00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:48,440
said. 
He when he finished, he got up 

471
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,800
and kind of smiled and walked 
out of the tent. 

472
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:59,520
And I just laid there feeling 
like devastated, being in a lot 

473
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:01,640
of physical pain. 
I mean, I remember blood running

474
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:07,040
down my legs. 
I yeah, I just remember being in

475
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:09,600
a lot of pain. 
Like I'd just been kidnapped 

476
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,320
from my family. 
I was scared I'd been taken away

477
00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:18,080
from them, you know, And also 
because I went to church every 

478
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:22,040
Sunday my whole life. 
Like, I had had a lot of lessons

479
00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:26,480
on chastity parity, which was 
all about, like, waiting for 

480
00:28:26,480 --> 00:28:33,880
marriage before you had sex. 
And so I also felt like I was 

481
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,640
ruined. 
Like I felt like I was unclean. 

482
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:40,600
And nobody would want me now 
because I wasn't as good as as 

483
00:28:40,600 --> 00:28:43,280
everyone else. 
Nobody wanted someone who was 

484
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:44,320
broken and dirty. 
Oh. 

485
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,320
Man. 
And at that point, I honestly 

486
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,960
don't remember if I passed out 
or if I just fell asleep. 

487
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:55,120
But the next thing I remember 
was this man kneeling over me, 

488
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,120
and he had a piece of metal 
cable wrapping it around my 

489
00:28:58,120 --> 00:29:02,760
ankle, bolting it like crushing 
bolts into place that I couldn't

490
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:06,200
run away so that I couldn't 
untwist it or escape. 

491
00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:10,200
And yeah, he had me chained up 
to a tree. 

492
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:12,520
That's what I remember waking up
to. 

493
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:18,120
Wow, was the chain ever off of 
you? 

494
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:30,040
So it was kind of on a, there 
was a piece of cable that was 

495
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:32,400
bolted around 2, two different 
trees. 

496
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:38,640
So there was a like, it was like
strung through the camp and then

497
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,640
he'd made a loop around one end.
See if. 

498
00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:45,480
You kind of go back and forth. 
And it was, it was locked. 

499
00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:50,160
There was like a a lock that had
a key so he could lock it onto 

500
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:53,800
this cable. 
And I could like move a little 

501
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,920
bit, like enough to use the 
bucket and enough to lie down 

502
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,480
inside the tent. 
And that was about it. 

503
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:04,440
And then he wore the key around 
his neck all the time. 

504
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:06,000
What? 
What month is this? 

505
00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:08,200
June early. 
June, beginning of June. 

506
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:10,600
OK. 
So it's warmer at least, OK. 

507
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:20,840
And yeah, I mean, the only time 
he would unlock me, I'd still 

508
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,320
have like the metal cable around
my ankle that didn't come off 

509
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:26,960
till he eventually cut it off. 
Oh my. 

510
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,680
Gosh. 
But he'd initially hold it so it

511
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:33,080
was like I was on a leash. 
And then as more time passed, he

512
00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:39,440
would let me hold it myself. 
But, you know, it was a trip 

513
00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:42,600
hazard. 
Like it would have been very 

514
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:50,160
difficult to run away with that.
I mean, being chained up the way

515
00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,680
I was. 
Yeah. 

516
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:53,320
It would have. 
It would have caught. 

517
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,160
It would have been. 
He would have caught me. 

518
00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:56,720
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

519
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:06,720
So what's next? 
Well, I mean, they gave me like 

520
00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:08,480
a new name. 
They said I couldn't. 

521
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,280
They gave you a new name. 
Yeah, they said my name was no 

522
00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:17,400
longer Elizabeth. 
They started talking about how 

523
00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:21,360
God had commanded them to kidnap
me, how they hadn't actually 

524
00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:29,400
really wanted to, how I was. 
I should be grateful that I had 

525
00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:33,360
been chosen by God and that I 
might not see it right now, but 

526
00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:36,680
one day I would. 
And one day I'd come to love him

527
00:31:36,680 --> 00:31:39,080
as a wife, truly loves her 
husband. 

528
00:31:39,480 --> 00:31:42,280
And that one day I would have 
kids with him. 

529
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:45,720
And one day I would, you know, 
we would come back into 

530
00:31:45,720 --> 00:31:50,120
civilization and we would be 
like the world's last hope. 

531
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:56,320
And I would stop anyone from 
trying to take him to prison 

532
00:31:56,720 --> 00:31:59,800
because he was my husband. 
And I would eventually love him 

533
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:03,960
at that point. 
It's so delusional, my gosh. 

534
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:10,480
I mean, it sounds, it does sound
delusional, but like, ultimately

535
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:15,800
what he liked was, was power. 
He liked to feel important. 

536
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:20,080
Yeah, for sure. 
And he'd found, I mean, he had 

537
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:24,320
LED like, honestly, he should 
have never, he should have never

538
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,840
been able to kidnap me. 
He should have been caught years

539
00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:28,400
before. 
Oh, wow. 

540
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:30,880
Like, he had done terrible 
things. 

541
00:32:30,880 --> 00:32:33,560
Oh, wow. 
Well before he ever kidnapped 

542
00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:35,680
me. 
And like, there should have been

543
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,040
interventions. 
He should have spent time, had 

544
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:39,720
he been quiet, doing those. 
Things. 

545
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,720
People knew about it, but like, 
no one had ever reported him or 

546
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:49,760
if they had, nothing had ever 
come of it. 

547
00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:56,320
But I mean, he had been married 
like my, the, my other captor. 

548
00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:01,480
That was his third marriage. 
And like he'd had, he'd had kids

549
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:05,320
with his first wife, his second 
wife. 

550
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:11,080
He had stepdaughters and like, I
mean, he, he had sexually abused

551
00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:15,760
them. 
Like he would watch them shower.

552
00:33:16,120 --> 00:33:20,800
Like he knew his second wife was
afraid of mice, so he would he 

553
00:33:20,800 --> 00:33:24,480
caught a whole bunch of mice 
like they were dead and then 

554
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,560
he'd like fill the oven up with 
dead mice or like stick them 

555
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,400
under the burners. 
Like he, like just. 

556
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,200
Cruel. 
Yeah, he was a bad person. 

557
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:39,080
Like even in the time when he 
was in in high school, he was 

558
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:40,960
bad. 
Like he terrorized the other 

559
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:43,960
kids in the neighborhood. 
Like would put them in rabbit 

560
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:46,880
cages and pee on him. 
Oh my gosh, really? 

561
00:33:46,960 --> 00:33:51,360
Yeah, like he really should have
never been able to kidnap me. 

562
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:55,080
Like he should have been caught 
years before. 

563
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:57,880
He'd lived, like his whole life,
he'd been a predator. 

564
00:33:57,880 --> 00:33:59,040
Oh. 
My gosh. 

565
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,200
Yeah. 
And like, he'd stalked women and

566
00:34:03,720 --> 00:34:08,800
like, yeah, he was, he was a he 
was a monster. 

567
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:15,080
So yeah, he really liked power. 
He really liked control. 

568
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,920
He liked feeling important. 
And I think he'd found the best 

569
00:34:18,920 --> 00:34:24,080
way to manipulate people, 
particularly in Utah, was to say

570
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:28,639
it was part of his religion. 
And that's how we got away with 

571
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:32,080
a lot of things that he did. 
I mean, people ever questioned 

572
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:33,239
him. 
He'd be like, oh, this is part 

573
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,440
of my religion. 
And that usually would shut 

574
00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:38,880
people down. 
And I think also, if you look at

575
00:34:38,880 --> 00:34:44,639
that time period, 9/11 had only 
happened, yeah, you know, nine 

576
00:34:44,639 --> 00:34:50,239
months earlier. 
And so I think he really, he was

577
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:53,280
smart, and I think he knew how 
to behave. 

578
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,920
He knew how to dress. 
He knew how to act that would 

579
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,320
cause people to stay away from 
him. 

580
00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,360
And I mean, he got away with it,
got away with it for a long 

581
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:08,280
time. 
Did he believe his intentions 

582
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:11,520
were from God? 
Like legitimately do you think? 

583
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:19,280
Do you think he was psychotic? 
I think, well, during the trial,

584
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:25,040
there was a piece of evidence 
that was brought in that was a 

585
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:29,320
letter that he had written, I 
think it was to his mom, years 

586
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,720
and years earlier. 
And it talked about how he was a

587
00:35:32,720 --> 00:35:41,800
good actor. 
And so I think it's really hard 

588
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:47,160
for me to say that I think he 
was crazy or psychotic because 

589
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,440
you couldn't do everything he 
did and get away with it if you 

590
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,360
were. 
Yeah, if you were not smart. 

591
00:35:56,760 --> 00:35:58,560
Oh no, now he's obviously an 
intelligent gay. 

592
00:35:59,960 --> 00:36:05,160
But I think so, I think early on
he'd found that religion was a 

593
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:09,480
really good way to manipulate 
people, was a really good way to

594
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:14,400
feel like important and you 
could control other people 

595
00:36:14,400 --> 00:36:18,880
through religion. 
And so I think he had this 

596
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,400
facade and I mean, like it 
wasn't straight out-of-the-box, 

597
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:27,080
like I'm, I'm a prophet of God, 
like I'm the next Davidic king. 

598
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,360
It wasn't one day he was like 
working his normal job and then 

599
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:32,240
the next day coming out with 
that. 

600
00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:36,560
I think it was just kind of 
little by little, like layer by 

601
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,840
layer. 
And I think he had had this 

602
00:36:41,840 --> 00:36:53,800
facade for so long that I think 
he did have himself convinced to

603
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,800
a point. 
But I also think he did know 

604
00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,720
what he was doing and like he 
just, he just wanted to a little

605
00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:07,040
girl. 
Oh man, wow. 

606
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:13,160
My daughter's 16, she's blonde, 
blue hair, blue eyes, and 

607
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,680
watching your documentary was 
that was rough. 

608
00:37:19,360 --> 00:37:20,880
Yeah, I'm. 
Thinking about her. 

609
00:37:21,320 --> 00:37:24,200
He would have easily targeted 
her because I wasn't the only 

610
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,280
girl. 
I wasn't the only girl he had 

611
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:32,160
initially tried to kidnap and 
then like he had plans to kidnap

612
00:37:32,160 --> 00:37:34,520
other girls. 
He was just looking for the 

613
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,920
right target. 
Was there a an attempt like on 

614
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,480
your cousin, I think right? 
There was an attempt on my 

615
00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:47,080
cousin and then during my time 
in captivity he had moved us to 

616
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,760
Southern California for the 
winter and he had actually 

617
00:37:49,760 --> 00:37:51,800
attempted to kidnap another 
young girl. 

618
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,920
Fortunately, neither were 
successful. 

619
00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:56,080
Yeah, what? 
What was this? 

620
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:01,280
What stopped it? 
The first one was he had cut 

621
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:05,280
through a screen on a window and
he started to move the blinds 

622
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:09,960
and, and my cousin had like 
glass ornament trinkets on the 

623
00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:13,520
window sill and he had pushed 
the blinds instead of lifting 

624
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,360
them and some of them had 
crashed off. 

625
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,040
And my uncle's bedroom was just 
close down the hall. 

626
00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:24,560
And my uncle had heard it and he
had just run into her room, 

627
00:38:24,560 --> 00:38:26,480
slammed the lights on, yelling 
her name. 

628
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:30,280
And it was before he'd gotten 
through the window. 

629
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:34,960
It was before he was like even. 
Like his arm wasn't even through

630
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,800
the window at that point. 
So by the time your uncle got 

631
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:38,440
there, he had bolted. 
He was. 

632
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,240
Gone. 
I mean, he heard he heard my 

633
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,880
uncle yell her name and he was 
out of there. 

634
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,000
Yeah. 
And then the second attempt, he 

635
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:51,800
actually never saw the girl in 
real life, but he had, he had 

636
00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:54,840
scouted out different churches 
in the area. 

637
00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,840
And, you know, like, typically 
people who go to church are 

638
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:07,480
really kind, welcoming people. 
And I think that's wonderful. 

639
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,360
And there was a couple who had 
really welcomed him and they're 

640
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,880
like, why don't you come over 
for dinner tonight? 

641
00:39:14,520 --> 00:39:18,600
And he went over to their house 
for dinner. 

642
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:22,440
He saw a picture, just a picture
of a young girl. 

643
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:26,040
And he was like, oh, you know, 
who's this? 

644
00:39:26,040 --> 00:39:29,440
And they're like, oh, it's you 
know, it's my daughter from my 

645
00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:31,600
first husband, from my first 
marriage. 

646
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:35,320
And you know, she spends splits 
her time between his house and 

647
00:39:35,320 --> 00:39:37,960
our house. 
And she's with him right now. 

648
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,920
And and so he's like, oh, you 
know, when, when do you get her 

649
00:39:41,920 --> 00:39:46,280
like, like, do you get her often
or, you know, and it's just 

650
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:49,800
conversation. 
He figured out when the mother 

651
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,960
had time with her daughter and 
when she was with her father. 

652
00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:58,720
And so he then like like a 
figured out that in a few weeks 

653
00:39:59,480 --> 00:40:02,800
that she'd be with her mom. 
And that's when he decided he 

654
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:06,080
was going to go after her. 
So the night that he went after 

655
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:11,680
her, he made it to her house. 
He found a sliding door that was

656
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:14,720
open. 
He started to open the door, 

657
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:18,520
started to step in the house. 
And I bet, I bet most people 

658
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,720
think snoring's not a blessing. 
But he heard. 

659
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:30,120
Some man just having deep bear 
like snores and he knew to reach

660
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:33,800
the girl he'd have to get in 
past this man snoring. 

661
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:38,600
And at that point he just 
decided it wasn't, it wasn't 

662
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:41,840
worth the risk. 
And when he got back into camp, 

663
00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:44,120
he was like, it was a test of 
our faith. 

664
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:48,160
Like when Abraham had to take 
his son Isaac up the mountain to

665
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:51,280
slay him because God commanded 
him to. 

666
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,160
It was a test of Abraham's 
faith. 

667
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,240
And then God was like, don't 
slay your precious son like he's

668
00:40:57,240 --> 00:40:59,040
yours. 
I'm not going to take him. 

669
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:01,920
And he's like, this is that same
kind of trial. 

670
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,520
We were tested to see if we 
truly trusted God and we passed 

671
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:08,520
the test. 
Oh my gosh, you you telling the 

672
00:41:08,520 --> 00:41:13,640
story how you're it's there's no
way he could have been psychotic

673
00:41:13,640 --> 00:41:18,280
to be able to have to have 
dinner with somebody, to sit 

674
00:41:18,280 --> 00:41:20,560
down with somebody, to have 
intelligent conversations, to 

675
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:23,720
ask questions, very specific 
questions about a picture to 

676
00:41:24,640 --> 00:41:28,440
that's not that's that's very 
you're a smart guy. 

677
00:41:28,440 --> 00:41:33,600
You're building your case, your 
crime, you're doing something to

678
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:39,240
plan and premeditate and to do 
something to harm and hurt 

679
00:41:39,240 --> 00:41:39,880
people. 
That's. 

680
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,320
I mean narcissist, absolutely. 
For sure. 

681
00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:47,840
Like megalomaniac, definitely 
like. 

682
00:41:48,360 --> 00:41:53,200
Self absorbed everything, yeah. 
Predatory, no doubt. 

683
00:41:54,400 --> 00:41:59,400
Wow. 
OK, so what's happening now? 

684
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:07,640
I mean, really, the next nine 
months we're just filled with. 

685
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,880
The same. 
Different layers of of abuse, 

686
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:20,680
sexual, emotional, just pretty 
horrific. 

687
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:26,600
Like starvation, Dehydration. 
Intentional starvation. 

688
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:32,600
To a point, yeah, yeah. 
I mean, some of it was just 

689
00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:37,000
because there was no food and he
didn't want to go out and bring 

690
00:42:37,000 --> 00:42:42,360
any back. 
But also like they did, they did

691
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:45,000
monitor what I ate. 
I only got to eat what they gave

692
00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:49,240
me. 
And like one time, I mean, he 

693
00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:52,120
used to sometimes bring people's
leftovers back to camp. 

694
00:42:52,120 --> 00:42:55,320
Like he'd dig through garbage 
cans and bring people's 

695
00:42:55,320 --> 00:42:58,480
leftovers to camp. 
And one time he'd found like 

696
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:01,840
half a burrito, like a pretty, 
pretty big burrito, not like a 

697
00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:05,120
little frozen one, but a pretty 
big one in a garbage can. 

698
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,160
And he brought it back to camp. 
And he's like, oh, look what I 

699
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:11,320
brought. 
Look what I brought both of you 

700
00:43:11,320 --> 00:43:15,480
to Wanda Barzee, my other 
captor, and myself. 

701
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:19,200
And she cut it in half. 
And then she was like, oh, you 

702
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,680
choose what half? 
And I mean, like the end of the 

703
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:25,640
burrito, you know, had the extra
flap of tortilla. 

704
00:43:26,160 --> 00:43:28,000
And I was starving. 
And she's like, oh, she's 

705
00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,840
telling me I can choose. 
So I chose that half. 

706
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,440
And then I got in trouble for 
choosing that half. 

707
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,200
Like she just was like, God 
clearly hasn't humbled you 

708
00:43:36,200 --> 00:43:38,600
enough. 
And like you should recognize 

709
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,720
I'm more important than you. 
And you know, you should just be

710
00:43:41,720 --> 00:43:44,400
aware that you are. 
I mean, she called me her 

711
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:49,720
handmaiden, but like slave and 
you know, you should have known 

712
00:43:49,720 --> 00:43:52,360
better than taking this. 
So I mean, I got in trouble for 

713
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:56,440
taking the half a burrito or I 
guess really the quarter of 

714
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:58,960
burrito that had the extra flap 
of tortilla. 

715
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:03,320
But it I mean, it was just a lot
of things like that that 

716
00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,520
happened. 
I mean, and everything they did 

717
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:14,400
they justified by using God or 
scripture or like they used to 

718
00:44:14,400 --> 00:44:18,720
have terrible fights. 
Like I've never seen a couple 

719
00:44:18,720 --> 00:44:21,200
like scream at each other the 
way that they did. 

720
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:23,440
I mean, I've seen my parents 
have disagreements, but I've 

721
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:25,680
never heard them scream at each 
other. 

722
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:28,960
And these two would scream at 
each other and a lot of time it 

723
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:34,800
was over me because Wanda Barzee
would be jealous because he'd be

724
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,440
paying me attention and and 
she'd be like, oh, you're just 

725
00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:44,280
lusting after her. 
And I'm the mother of Zion and I

726
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:46,600
have a throne waiting for me in 
heaven. 

727
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:52,240
And like, she was like, you 
know, I'm a queen and. 

728
00:44:53,720 --> 00:44:56,320
Did you ever think that or did 
they ever think that somebody 

729
00:44:56,320 --> 00:44:59,640
would hear them? 
I mean, was it that remote where

730
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,680
nobody was afraid to speak 
loudly or scream or yell like? 

731
00:45:02,720 --> 00:45:05,280
I mean, in the early days it was
quiet. 

732
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:11,800
It was quiet. 
But as months went on, it was it

733
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:12,920
didn't matter as much. 
Wow. 

734
00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:19,640
Oh my gosh. 
So take me back down to what's 

735
00:45:19,640 --> 00:45:24,280
happening, sort of rewind what 
happens here, Now you're gone, 

736
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:25,600
What takes place? 
Here. 

737
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,080
So my sister, she actually was 
awake when I was being 

738
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:32,480
kidnapped. 
She saw it happen, but I mean, 

739
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:34,960
her eyes weren't wide open. 
She didn't want him to know she 

740
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:36,640
was awake. 
He could have killed her. 

741
00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:39,080
She actually thought he had a 
gun. 

742
00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:41,800
How old was she? 
She was 99. 

743
00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,520
Wow. 
So, you know, just just young, 

744
00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:50,240
just little. 
And we had an alarm system on 

745
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:53,640
our house. 
And so after he'd gotten me up, 

746
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:57,200
she kept waiting for the alarm 
system to go off and it never 

747
00:45:57,200 --> 00:45:59,640
went off. 
So she thought he was still in 

748
00:45:59,640 --> 00:46:01,560
the house. 
And she waited and waited. 

749
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:09,520
And then she finally like got 
her courage up and went into my 

750
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:12,560
parents bedroom and, you know, 
went to my dad's side of the bed

751
00:46:12,560 --> 00:46:15,880
1st and he was in a pretty deep 
sleep so didn't immediately 

752
00:46:15,880 --> 00:46:18,880
respond. 
And then went around to my mom's

753
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:20,960
side of the bed. 
And she was like, my mom was 

754
00:46:20,960 --> 00:46:22,640
like, what are you doing? 
Why are you out of bed? 

755
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:24,560
Like, you should be in bed. 
You should be asleep. 

756
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:28,520
Come on, I'll take you back to 
your room. 

757
00:46:28,520 --> 00:46:31,680
And my sister was like, no, 
Elizabeth's gone, Mom, Elizabeth

758
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,880
is gone. 
And my mom was like, no, I'm 

759
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:36,480
sure she's just in another room 
because, yeah, of course. 

760
00:46:36,480 --> 00:46:41,880
My little sister, like, she's 
really at least back then, she 

761
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:45,600
was, like, a really hot sleeper.
And she liked to, like, cuddle 

762
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,160
right up next to me. 
And I hated it. 

763
00:46:48,160 --> 00:46:49,960
And she, like, steal the 
blankets. 

764
00:46:49,960 --> 00:46:51,920
And sometimes she kicked in her 
sleep. 

765
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,600
And so it wasn't like that 
strange for me to, like, go into

766
00:46:56,600 --> 00:46:59,960
my baby brother's room where he 
hadn't fully transitioned from 

767
00:46:59,960 --> 00:47:04,600
the crib to the toddler bed or 
go lie on the sofa downstairs in

768
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:09,000
the kitchen. 
I mean, that wasn't like, that 

769
00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:10,720
wasn't that strange for me to do
that. 

770
00:47:10,720 --> 00:47:12,400
And someone was like, oh, we'll 
find her. 

771
00:47:12,400 --> 00:47:14,920
It's fine. 
And by this point, my dad had 

772
00:47:14,920 --> 00:47:18,120
woken up. 
So I'm like, OK, let's go find 

773
00:47:18,120 --> 00:47:20,280
her. 
When they're checking all the 

774
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,000
rooms and, you know, with each 
room they're checking and I'm 

775
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:25,280
not there, they're becoming more
and more worried. 

776
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:29,400
They go down to the kitchen or 
they go down the stairs. 

777
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,040
My dad turned to go to like the 
formal living room, which I 

778
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:37,760
would never have gone in there. 
And my mom turned to go in the 

779
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,480
kitchen. 
Like the panic is there at this 

780
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:42,400
point. 
She's just, like slamming on the

781
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,280
lights. 
Her eye goes immediately to the 

782
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,760
window above the kitchen sink. 
She saw the screen cut. 

783
00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:51,400
My little sister's just in the 
background saying, you're not 

784
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,320
going to find her. 
A man came and took her. 

785
00:47:53,920 --> 00:47:56,960
And that's just when my mom 
screams to my dad. 

786
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:59,920
I'd call 911. 
Elizabeth is gone. 

787
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:00,800
Oh. 
My. 

788
00:48:01,240 --> 00:48:05,080
Gosh, yeah. 
And then as far as I understand,

789
00:48:05,880 --> 00:48:09,960
just chaos erupted at that 
point, like my parents were 

790
00:48:09,960 --> 00:48:12,480
calling all the neighbors. 
Were their daughters gone? 

791
00:48:12,480 --> 00:48:14,560
Had anyone seen or heard 
anything? 

792
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,440
I think the police or the FBI 
were a bit upset with my parents

793
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:21,360
because all the neighbors were 
running over. 

794
00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:24,120
And then they're like, you've 
contaminated the crime scene. 

795
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:32,320
And yeah, just from that moment 
on, it was just panic and chaos 

796
00:48:32,320 --> 00:48:37,600
and confusion. 
And, you know, my family was 

797
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:43,440
interrogated and like, did any 
of them have something to do 

798
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:47,640
with my disappearance? 
And my parents were very closely

799
00:48:47,640 --> 00:48:49,640
looked at. 
And my uncles were looked at 

800
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:54,120
even like my older brother and 
my brother just younger than me,

801
00:48:54,120 --> 00:48:58,080
like they were looked at. 
Which when I eventually heard 

802
00:48:58,080 --> 00:49:01,000
that they were being considered,
I remember just thinking, this 

803
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:04,560
is just ridiculous. 
Like no one in my family would 

804
00:49:04,600 --> 00:49:08,400
ever hurt me. 
You know, now that I've like 

805
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:12,200
worked in child safety and 
advocacy for, you know, the last

806
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:18,360
20 years, like I, I realized 
that most kidnappings are family

807
00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:22,040
related or someone that you 
know, And so it is common to 

808
00:49:22,040 --> 00:49:24,160
consider the parents. 
But when I first heard that I 

809
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:27,560
was like, this is ridiculous. 
This is this is so stupid. 

810
00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,440
How could anyone think that? 
My parents wasting your time? 

811
00:49:30,440 --> 00:49:33,040
Yeah, Yeah. 
And I mean, I remember my dad 

812
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:37,280
telling me how people would go 
to the police and be like, oh, 

813
00:49:37,280 --> 00:49:41,000
Ed's smart. 
He and then he he like, buried 

814
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:47,120
her in the walls of the house 
and like, just just craziness. 

815
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,160
And, you know, my dad and my 
parents had built our house 

816
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,440
themselves. 
And, you know, they'd like, if 

817
00:49:54,440 --> 00:49:57,600
they need help with something, 
they had, you know, found the 

818
00:49:57,600 --> 00:50:02,280
workers to come and work. 
And so they were making lists of

819
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,120
everyone who had been to the 
house. 

820
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:09,960
And at one point, my, like, in 
this list, there was a name on 

821
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,320
the list that the police were 
like, oh, well, did you know 

822
00:50:14,320 --> 00:50:17,640
this man was a felon? 
I mean, I was like, no, you 

823
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:21,200
know, he came to us highly 
recommended from like our, our 

824
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:23,880
local church. 
Like he's like, I thought he'd 

825
00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:26,440
been fully vetted, like Noah had
no idea. 

826
00:50:26,440 --> 00:50:30,440
And they're like, well, yeah, 
he's, he's spent time in prison.

827
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:32,960
And so he became like the main 
suspect. 

828
00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:39,040
And, you know, he there was 
mileage on his Jeep that he just

829
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,560
wouldn't say where it was from. 
Why? 

830
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,720
Why was that? 
I have no idea. 

831
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:47,600
I have no idea. 
But he never would say where 

832
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:53,480
this, you know, extra couple 100
miles had come from. 

833
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:56,680
And so, you know, police thought
he'd kidnapped me. 

834
00:50:56,680 --> 00:51:00,200
He'd driven me out into the 
desert me buried me and driven 

835
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:02,400
back. 
That's just what they thought 

836
00:51:02,600 --> 00:51:04,800
had happened. 
And then, you know, he had a 

837
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,160
brain aneurysm in prison or in 
jail and, and died. 

838
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:13,640
And my, my grandpa, he was, he 
was a doctor. 

839
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:16,200
And he's like, I just know 
Elizabeth hit him on the head 

840
00:51:16,600 --> 00:51:19,560
and he that's why he had a brain
aneurysm. 

841
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:25,520
Good for her. 
Yeah, of course it wasn't him. 

842
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:29,600
But when he died, the police 
were like, she's gone. 

843
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:34,280
Like we probably, we probably 
won't ever find her. 

844
00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:35,760
What? 
Was that initial night, like 

845
00:51:35,800 --> 00:51:38,560
when they were trying to find 
you, what did they do? 

846
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,080
Do you remember or do you 
remember hearing about that at 

847
00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:42,960
all? 
Like what were the police? 

848
00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,240
Was it just? 
It was just chaos. 

849
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:47,920
I mean, as far as like they had 
come. 

850
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:50,160
In it was a dog that they sent 
out or something, right? 

851
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:52,760
I mean, there were dogs. 
I don't know if that happened 

852
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:56,320
that first night, but I know 
that dogs were brought in and 

853
00:51:56,320 --> 00:51:59,480
the dogs could only track us up 
to the road where the police 

854
00:51:59,480 --> 00:52:00,920
card passed right in front of 
us. 

855
00:52:00,920 --> 00:52:05,680
Which like, I was like, well, I 
never got in a car. 

856
00:52:05,920 --> 00:52:08,840
Like how could my son have just 
disappeared? 

857
00:52:09,200 --> 00:52:12,760
Oh, they OK, so they thought 
when you got to the road she 

858
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,600
obviously jumped in a car. 
Because the dogs, like, couldn't

859
00:52:16,600 --> 00:52:20,080
track anything any further. 
That was as far as they ever got

860
00:52:20,080 --> 00:52:21,440
there. 
There was a trail, yeah. 

861
00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:24,720
Why didn't they go up the trail?
Like I, I don't know, I think 

862
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:29,200
maybe they did, but the dogs 
just didn't pick anything up. 

863
00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:31,480
But I mean, it's where I was 
brought. 

864
00:52:31,480 --> 00:52:33,880
It's where I was taken. 
I don't know. 

865
00:52:34,480 --> 00:52:38,280
I don't know if enough people 
had then gone over it before, 

866
00:52:39,240 --> 00:52:41,520
before the dogs were brought in.
I I don't know. 

867
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,600
Wow. 
And he, he had eventually 

868
00:52:46,600 --> 00:52:48,560
brought you back into town, 
right? 

869
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,720
Yes, but it was not down that 
trail. 

870
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,480
Oh wow. 
It was a different trail. 

871
00:52:54,280 --> 00:52:56,960
Wow, OK. 
Yeah, I was only ever taken up 

872
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:01,720
that, not that that specific 
trail the first night I was 

873
00:53:01,720 --> 00:53:03,840
kidnapped. 
Yeah. 

874
00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:06,480
What was that like for you 
coming back into town? 

875
00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:11,400
I mean, initially it was like 
very hopeful that someone was 

876
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:13,520
going to recognize me, that 
someone was going to do 

877
00:53:13,520 --> 00:53:17,760
something. 
But also by that time, like I 

878
00:53:17,920 --> 00:53:24,520
had lived under their threats 
for so long and they followed 

879
00:53:24,520 --> 00:53:28,960
through with what they said they
were going to do to me and they 

880
00:53:28,960 --> 00:53:35,800
threatened my family and they 
felt invincible. 

881
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:44,080
So I was, I was excited to go 
down into town, but I was also 

882
00:53:44,120 --> 00:53:46,800
nervous. 
And I mean, one of them was 

883
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,320
always right in front of me. 
One of them was always right 

884
00:53:49,320 --> 00:53:51,680
behind me. 
It was almost like they were 

885
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:56,320
touching me like the whole time.
And I mean, I've, I've been 

886
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,160
questioned so many times about, 
well, why didn't you scream? 

887
00:53:59,160 --> 00:54:01,440
Why didn't you yell? 
Why didn't you just run away? 

888
00:54:02,760 --> 00:54:08,200
It was not that simple. 
And I think when you step back, 

889
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:11,160
like I'm not the only one who's 
had that response. 

890
00:54:11,160 --> 00:54:14,000
I think you can look at, you 
know, victims of domestic 

891
00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,600
violence and you can be like, 
well, you have a car, you have 

892
00:54:16,600 --> 00:54:19,680
money, you have a phone. 
Why don't you just leave? 

893
00:54:20,120 --> 00:54:22,440
Like it's never, it's never that
simple. 

894
00:54:22,440 --> 00:54:26,880
Like these people are monsters. 
They're, they're predators. 

895
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:32,200
They put so much, they instill 
so much fear inside of you and 

896
00:54:32,200 --> 00:54:35,760
you recognize just how capable 
they are of hurting you or 

897
00:54:35,760 --> 00:54:41,440
hurting someone you love, that 
you are just in such a state of 

898
00:54:41,440 --> 00:54:43,600
survival. 
That's all you can think of. 

899
00:54:43,600 --> 00:54:48,280
And survival usually means doing
what they tell you to do and 

900
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,920
minimizing consequences at all 
cost. 

901
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,040
Was there? 
There was a moment though, that 

902
00:54:54,040 --> 00:54:58,840
you were in a like a library or 
something, and a policeman came.

903
00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:07,000
So before he took us to Southern
California, they decided, you 

904
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,000
know, we weren't going to 
survive a a winter in Utah. 

905
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,640
We need to to find somewhere to 
go. 

906
00:55:12,920 --> 00:55:16,120
We need to look at some maps. 
We could go to the Public 

907
00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:20,120
Library and look at a whole 
bunch of different maps and 

908
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,600
someone had seen us. 
Someone had suspected us. 

909
00:55:22,600 --> 00:55:26,520
They called the police. 
A homicide detective approached 

910
00:55:26,520 --> 00:55:29,080
us in the library. 
Oh, wow. 

911
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:31,000
Somebody. 
Had called the police because 

912
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,160
they thought it was you. 
I didn't realize. 

913
00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:36,440
That like they just, yeah, they 
thought it was me or they just 

914
00:55:36,440 --> 00:55:39,800
thought it was strange. 
It seemed suspicious. 

915
00:55:40,680 --> 00:55:43,880
And I guess it was a couple 
different phone calls that the 

916
00:55:43,880 --> 00:55:46,360
police had called or had 
received. 

917
00:55:47,040 --> 00:55:51,280
And I mean, this detective, he 
was plain clothes. 

918
00:55:51,560 --> 00:55:54,600
He just flashed his badge as he 
got closer to us. 

919
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,400
I didn't even know what the word
homicide meant at that point in 

920
00:55:57,400 --> 00:55:59,520
time. 
And he's like, I'm a homicide 

921
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,800
detective. 
We've had a few phone calls 

922
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:06,200
about a missing girl. 
You know, I just need to see, I 

923
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,800
just need to see her face 
because I was I was like 

924
00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:11,800
completely failed and covered up
at that point. 

925
00:56:13,480 --> 00:56:18,120
And again, my captors had the 
perfect excuse to not show my 

926
00:56:18,120 --> 00:56:22,840
face because it was this is part
of our religion and it would be 

927
00:56:22,840 --> 00:56:25,280
against our religion for you to 
see your face. 

928
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:31,640
And I'm sorry, like I'm sorry, 
but only her, only her family 

929
00:56:31,720 --> 00:56:34,320
and her future husband will ever
see your face. 

930
00:56:35,040 --> 00:56:39,400
And I mean, I was sitting down 
next to Wanda Barzee. 

931
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:42,680
And as soon as this man said he 
was a homicide detective, like 

932
00:56:42,680 --> 00:56:45,720
her hand had just like clenched 
down on my leg. 

933
00:56:45,720 --> 00:56:49,240
And it was just like, it was 
just, it was just like reliving 

934
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:53,600
being kidnapped all over. 
It was just like a reminder of 

935
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,560
what they were capable of. 
And there's that saying, you 

936
00:56:57,560 --> 00:57:00,120
know, the evil you know is 
better than the evil you don't 

937
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,680
know. 
And, and like, I didn't know if 

938
00:57:04,680 --> 00:57:06,560
that police officer would 
believe me. 

939
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,400
I didn't know if he was actually
capable of protecting me. 

940
00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:11,280
No one had protected me thus 
far. 

941
00:57:11,600 --> 00:57:14,040
No one had stopped them from 
hurting me thus far. 

942
00:57:14,040 --> 00:57:17,280
So. 
So there was a part of you that 

943
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:22,720
was probably like, please don't 
figure this out to like, like 

944
00:57:22,720 --> 00:57:24,880
the police, like I don't want 
them to know that this is me 

945
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:30,680
because I'm in more danger. 
I wouldn't say that I wanted, I 

946
00:57:30,680 --> 00:57:35,640
wanted to be rescued. 
I wanted to be saved, but I also

947
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:39,840
wanted it to be in a way that my
family wouldn't be put in danger

948
00:57:40,400 --> 00:57:42,160
and that I wouldn't be put in 
danger. 

949
00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:47,360
And I didn't know, like how that
would all work out. 

950
00:57:48,560 --> 00:57:52,840
So I didn't necessarily know 
what the right rescue would look

951
00:57:52,840 --> 00:58:00,160
like, but I just knew it needed 
to look like I wasn't like 

952
00:58:00,160 --> 00:58:04,080
making a break for freedom 
because I felt like, I mean, I 

953
00:58:04,080 --> 00:58:05,880
was 14 years old. 
I felt like they were 

954
00:58:05,880 --> 00:58:07,000
invincible. 
Yeah. 

955
00:58:11,880 --> 00:58:20,280
OK, So when this happened, was 
this in where where were you at?

956
00:58:20,280 --> 00:58:22,400
Was this in This was Salt Lake. 
This was Salt Lake. 

957
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:25,040
OK. 
So then they bring you back up 

958
00:58:25,760 --> 00:58:32,120
and there was another time that 
you they got you on the bus, 

959
00:58:32,240 --> 00:58:33,200
right? 
They put you on a bus. 

960
00:58:33,200 --> 00:58:37,600
So to get to Southern 
California, yeah, we rode the 

961
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:40,360
Greyhound bus. 
What was that like? 

962
00:58:42,640 --> 00:58:50,600
It was, it was stressful. 
Like the morning that we were 

963
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:52,960
catching the bus, it was really,
really early. 

964
00:58:53,560 --> 00:58:56,640
And I remember sitting in the 
bus depot just looking at the 

965
00:58:56,640 --> 00:59:02,360
people around me, just hoping 
that someone would recognize who

966
00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,120
I was. 
And I remember like staring at 

967
00:59:05,120 --> 00:59:09,600
this one woman who looked like 
maybe she was a mother and just 

968
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:15,000
hoping she would help me. 
And I remember her just looking 

969
00:59:15,000 --> 00:59:18,440
back at me and kind of snarling 
at me and being like, like, what

970
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,680
are you staring at? 
Why don't you take that rag off 

971
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:23,960
your face? 
And just kind of hearing that 

972
00:59:23,960 --> 00:59:30,240
just made me just deflate. 
Made me feel like, oh, no one, 

973
00:59:30,760 --> 00:59:33,840
no one is here to help me. 
Like no one would even believe 

974
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:38,160
me if I were to say something 
because we look different. 

975
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:43,120
And that wasn't such an uncommon
response to us. 

976
00:59:43,120 --> 00:59:46,240
I mean, I remember seeing people
when they'd be walking down the 

977
00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:48,880
same side of the street as us. 
They'd look up, they'd see us, 

978
00:59:48,880 --> 00:59:51,920
they'd cross the street, keep 
walking, and then once they were

979
00:59:51,920 --> 00:59:56,760
past us, they'd cross back over.
Or when people would drive by in

980
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,560
their car, sometimes they'd roll
their window, their windows out 

981
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:03,680
and yell things like Osama or 
bin Laden out of us. 

982
01:00:04,480 --> 01:00:12,360
So like it wasn't that uncommon 
of a of a response that felt 

983
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:16,720
that felt pretty devastating. 
Yeah. 

984
01:00:18,200 --> 01:00:20,880
So when did you finally get 
rescued? 

985
01:00:22,080 --> 01:00:26,600
So it had been, it had been nine
months and we were still in 

986
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:30,320
Southern California and they 
started to talk of like other 

987
01:00:30,320 --> 01:00:34,080
places, other locations to go to
try to kidnap other young girls.

988
01:00:35,560 --> 01:00:40,800
And because this was after his 
second attempt had failed and 

989
01:00:40,800 --> 01:00:44,280
they were talking about big 
cities far, far away like New 

990
01:00:44,280 --> 01:00:47,920
York or Philadelphia. 
And I just remember thinking, if

991
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:51,000
we ever make it there, I'll 
never be found. 

992
01:00:51,000 --> 01:00:55,120
No one would ever expect to see 
Elizabeth Smart in in any of 

993
01:00:55,120 --> 01:00:57,400
those locations. 
And I didn't even really know if

994
01:00:57,400 --> 01:01:00,760
the search was still going on 
for me at that point. 

995
01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:05,640
And I just knew that my best 
chance of being rescued was to 

996
01:01:05,640 --> 01:01:11,480
get back to Utah. 
And I knew how they acted. 

997
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,520
I mean, I'd watched them for 
nine months. 

998
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:19,920
I'd been a victim of of their 
manipulation for nine months. 

999
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:24,360
So I knew how they did it. 
And I remember just trying to 

1000
01:01:24,360 --> 01:01:26,760
doubt on them. 
I remember just being like, oh, 

1001
01:01:26,920 --> 01:01:30,680
you know, I know God would never
speak to me like I'm too sinful.

1002
01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,600
You're you're his, you're his 
prophet, though. 

1003
01:01:33,600 --> 01:01:36,920
I know he'd tell you if we're 
supposed to go back by just I 

1004
01:01:36,920 --> 01:01:39,920
just have this feeling like 
we're supposed to go back to 

1005
01:01:39,920 --> 01:01:44,480
Utah, but could you please ask 
him because like, I just know 

1006
01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:50,400
he'll answer you over me. 
And like, I think in that 

1007
01:01:50,400 --> 01:01:51,960
moment, it made him feel 
important. 

1008
01:01:51,960 --> 01:01:57,240
It made him feel like I would 
guess that my last barrier 

1009
01:01:57,240 --> 01:02:00,840
against him had come down. 
I think it probably made him 

1010
01:02:00,840 --> 01:02:05,280
feel like I was accepting him on
every level because although 

1011
01:02:06,040 --> 01:02:11,920
like in the nine months that he 
had me, like he always did what 

1012
01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:16,880
he wanted, but he always knew 
that I didn't want it. 

1013
01:02:17,480 --> 01:02:19,960
I didn't want to be, I didn't 
want to be abused. 

1014
01:02:20,440 --> 01:02:22,480
Like he always knew. 
And I think in that moment, he 

1015
01:02:22,480 --> 01:02:27,280
just felt like this was me just 
accepting him completely. 

1016
01:02:28,240 --> 01:02:31,440
And so he ended up being like, 
oh, I think you're right. 

1017
01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:35,440
We should return to Salt Lake. 
And I had a plan for that too, 

1018
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:38,880
because they had always talked 
about how they'd traveled all 

1019
01:02:38,880 --> 01:02:41,520
over the country and the 
different forms of travel. 

1020
01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:47,240
And, and they used to say things
to me like, oh, you know, it's 

1021
01:02:47,240 --> 01:02:49,960
important for you to experience 
this so that you know that 

1022
01:02:49,960 --> 01:02:51,400
you're no better than anyone 
else. 

1023
01:02:51,400 --> 01:02:54,560
It's important for you to 
experience alcohol because right

1024
01:02:54,560 --> 01:02:56,040
now you just think you're so 
pure. 

1025
01:02:56,040 --> 01:02:58,680
You just think you're so 
righteous, but you're no better 

1026
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,600
than any drunk bum in the 
street. 

1027
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,880
And, and one time they'd forced 
me to like drink so much. 

1028
01:03:03,880 --> 01:03:08,480
I'd thrown up and passed out in 
like my own vomit and it had 

1029
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,240
gotten all in my hair and my 
face. 

1030
01:03:10,240 --> 01:03:12,560
And I woke up the next morning 
and I was crushed into the 

1031
01:03:12,560 --> 01:03:14,080
ground. 
Oh my gosh. 

1032
01:03:14,080 --> 01:03:17,080
They just kind of laughed at me 
and been like, oh, you know, God

1033
01:03:17,080 --> 01:03:21,040
was just revealing your true 
form, like your true level of 

1034
01:03:21,040 --> 01:03:24,440
spirituality and it's face down 
in your own vomit. 

1035
01:03:24,440 --> 01:03:36,400
And so yeah, like they had just 
used their God talk for 

1036
01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:39,760
everything. 
And you know, they don't just 

1037
01:03:39,760 --> 01:03:43,120
talked about how it was 
important for me to experience 

1038
01:03:43,120 --> 01:03:47,800
all of these these things. 
So I knew I wasn't better than 

1039
01:03:47,800 --> 01:03:49,920
anyone else that say things like
it's important for you to 

1040
01:03:49,920 --> 01:03:53,320
descend below all things before 
you can rise above all things. 

1041
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,240
And they talked about how hard 
like they're hitchhiking travels

1042
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,800
had been and and I remember 
thinking that is exactly how I 

1043
01:04:02,800 --> 01:04:05,560
need to travel back to Utah 
because getting in someone 

1044
01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:09,520
else's car, like that's someone 
else's space, like they won't 

1045
01:04:09,520 --> 01:04:13,240
have the same power or control 
over the situation if we're in 

1046
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:14,240
someone's so. 
Smart. 

1047
01:04:14,680 --> 01:04:18,120
If we're in someone else's space
and someone is going to notice 

1048
01:04:18,120 --> 01:04:22,880
that this is not normal, that 
this is not right, so. 

1049
01:04:22,880 --> 01:04:25,160
That's so impressive. 
I had convinced them to 

1050
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:30,000
hitchhike back. 
That was an adventure. 

1051
01:04:34,560 --> 01:04:39,520
I think there were some people 
along the way who suspected that

1052
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,480
it wasn't right, but they just 
couldn't figure it out. 

1053
01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:47,680
They couldn't figure out like. 
They just thought there was a 

1054
01:04:47,680 --> 01:04:52,000
bunch of weird people. 
Or they yeah, the situation was 

1055
01:04:52,000 --> 01:04:55,080
strange. 
Or I think I heard during the 

1056
01:04:55,080 --> 01:04:58,320
trial that even one person went 
to the police station to look at

1057
01:04:58,320 --> 01:05:03,040
missing people, but they just 
couldn't figure out who it was. 

1058
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:07,280
But that's, that's how we made 
it back to Utah. 

1059
01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:09,200
That's how we made it back to 
Salt Lake. 

1060
01:05:09,760 --> 01:05:13,080
And it was the first day that we
were back that I was rescued. 

1061
01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:14,800
I mean my captors. 
Wow, the. 

1062
01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,440
First day? 
Yeah, the first day. 

1063
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:21,600
Like just just, I don't even 
know if it was an hour we were 

1064
01:05:21,600 --> 01:05:24,440
in the Salt Lake Valley that I 
was rescued. 

1065
01:05:25,080 --> 01:05:29,480
We were walking up State Street.
My captors were in a rush to get

1066
01:05:29,480 --> 01:05:31,400
me up into the mountains because
they're like, you're never 

1067
01:05:31,400 --> 01:05:35,080
coming down again. 
But honestly, like, that felt 

1068
01:05:35,080 --> 01:05:39,120
fine to me because I just felt 
like, well, physically I am that

1069
01:05:39,120 --> 01:05:46,440
much closer to my family. 
So like, yeah, we were walking 

1070
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:50,520
up State Street and all of a 
sudden there were police cars 

1071
01:05:50,520 --> 01:05:54,160
pulling up around us and 
officers were jumping out and 

1072
01:05:54,160 --> 01:05:57,040
they were questioning my 
captors, questioning me. 

1073
01:05:57,760 --> 01:06:00,600
And again, I had a captor 
standing on either side of me. 

1074
01:06:00,600 --> 01:06:02,440
They were both physically 
touching me. 

1075
01:06:05,200 --> 01:06:08,760
Like, I just felt like it was 
too risky to immediately speak 

1076
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:11,520
up, to immediately say who I 
was. 

1077
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:17,880
And it wasn't until one of the 
officers separated me from my 

1078
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:21,440
captors that I eventually 
admitted who I was. 

1079
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:26,960
But my captors were, they were 
close enough to me that they 

1080
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:34,600
could hear what was going on. 
And like, they had a specific 

1081
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:38,760
way of speaking. 
I mean, they didn't use like you

1082
01:06:38,760 --> 01:06:41,480
yours. 
It was thee thine thou. 

1083
01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:50,960
And so I had just felt like if I
responded in the way that they 

1084
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:57,040
usually spoke, that maybe they 
wouldn't know what I was 

1085
01:06:57,040 --> 01:07:01,040
responding to. 
And I was really scared to 

1086
01:07:01,040 --> 01:07:03,720
answer with my name 'cause it 
was like if I answered with my 

1087
01:07:03,720 --> 01:07:07,640
name, my real name, if I just 
said yes, I'm Elizabeth Smart, 

1088
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:12,280
they would hear me. 
And what if they got out of jail

1089
01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:14,840
or out of prison? 
What if they weren't locked up? 

1090
01:07:15,200 --> 01:07:20,000
What if somehow they were 
released? 

1091
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,600
Like, I had no doubts they'd 
come back after me. 

1092
01:07:22,680 --> 01:07:25,240
And they'd probably, this time, 
they probably wouldn't just come

1093
01:07:25,240 --> 01:07:27,000
after me. 
They'd come after my family. 

1094
01:07:27,600 --> 01:07:31,960
I mean, I didn't like know the 
legal system. 

1095
01:07:31,960 --> 01:07:35,800
I didn't know what happened. 
I mean, couldn't people get out 

1096
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:39,880
on bail? 
Like I I just didn't know. 

1097
01:07:39,880 --> 01:07:46,480
And so I didn't want them to 
hear me saying who I was. 

1098
01:07:47,000 --> 01:07:50,520
And so I answered the way that 
they spoke, which was by saying 

1099
01:07:50,840 --> 01:07:53,600
when one of the officers was 
like, are you Elizabeth Smart? 

1100
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:58,360
I responded with thou sayest 
because that was how they spoke.

1101
01:07:58,440 --> 01:08:02,480
And I didn't want them to hear 
me flat out admitting who I was,

1102
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:05,320
because then they'd be upset 
with me and they'd come back 

1103
01:08:05,320 --> 01:08:08,640
after me and I might be punished
and they might punish my family.

1104
01:08:09,680 --> 01:08:11,360
Wow. 
What was that? 

1105
01:08:12,480 --> 01:08:12,960
What? 
What did? 

1106
01:08:12,960 --> 01:08:14,400
What did what? 
What was his face? 

1107
01:08:14,400 --> 01:08:15,920
What was his demeanor when you 
said that? 

1108
01:08:16,399 --> 01:08:18,880
That police officer, remember, 
oh, I mean, they weren't 

1109
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,080
comforting at all. 
Like they were very aggressive. 

1110
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:25,880
They were very abrasive like. 
With you or them or just like. 

1111
01:08:26,800 --> 01:08:29,880
With everyone, I mean, I was. 
I then had my hands put behind 

1112
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:31,560
my back. 
I was handcuffed and put in the 

1113
01:08:31,560 --> 01:08:35,080
back of the police car, which 
immediately made made me think, 

1114
01:08:35,080 --> 01:08:36,560
Oh my gosh, I said the wrong 
thing. 

1115
01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:40,120
Wow, is that just like 
procedure? 

1116
01:08:41,960 --> 01:08:44,960
I mean, at the time, like, I, I 
mean, I at the time I thought I 

1117
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:49,279
was in trouble. 
But like I had, I've had lots of

1118
01:08:49,279 --> 01:08:53,680
police sense be like, Oh, well, 
you know, like they should not 

1119
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:57,319
have done that. 
But you hadn't just immediately 

1120
01:08:58,520 --> 01:09:01,479
said who you were, so they 
probably didn't know if you were

1121
01:09:01,479 --> 01:09:04,600
a threat or not. 
I've had police officers be 

1122
01:09:04,600 --> 01:09:07,880
like, yeah, you know what? 
Like police put their lives on 

1123
01:09:07,880 --> 01:09:10,520
the line every day. 
You never know what someone is 

1124
01:09:10,520 --> 01:09:13,720
capable of. 
So best practices is if 

1125
01:09:13,720 --> 01:09:16,800
someone's in the back of the 
car, they are handcuffed. 

1126
01:09:16,800 --> 01:09:18,880
I mean, you don't want them like
pulling on the door handle and 

1127
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:22,880
jumping out of the car as well. 
So it's just, it was just best 

1128
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:25,960
practices. 
Plus I think nobody expected me 

1129
01:09:25,960 --> 01:09:28,319
to come back alive. 
I think pretty much everyone 

1130
01:09:28,319 --> 01:09:30,840
thought they were just looking 
for a body at that point. 

1131
01:09:33,479 --> 01:09:37,200
Can you just take me back your 
sister? 

1132
01:09:38,120 --> 01:09:41,680
Because I think people might I, 
I obviously most people listen 

1133
01:09:41,680 --> 01:09:43,319
to this, know your story, but 
there's going to be people that 

1134
01:09:43,319 --> 01:09:46,520
don't know your story and your 
sister. 

1135
01:09:48,560 --> 01:09:50,760
People might be like, well, how 
did the police find you? 

1136
01:09:50,760 --> 01:09:55,680
Talk to me about that. 
So my sister had initially 

1137
01:09:55,680 --> 01:09:57,920
described the man who kidnapped 
me. 

1138
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:02,560
And I mean, the police had my, 
my parents were obviously very 

1139
01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:05,360
protective of her. 
They didn't just want her to be 

1140
01:10:05,360 --> 01:10:09,560
like interrogated and 
interrogated and interrogated, 

1141
01:10:10,920 --> 01:10:14,120
but they had allowed the police 
to question her. 

1142
01:10:15,480 --> 01:10:17,200
They had to be in the room with 
her. 

1143
01:10:18,760 --> 01:10:21,520
And she's given them these 
answers. 

1144
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,080
And then eventually, at some 
point, they're like, well, let 

1145
01:10:24,080 --> 01:10:27,160
us try to hypnotize her. 
You know, maybe more will come 

1146
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:30,120
to the surface. 
Also, she's nine years old. 

1147
01:10:30,480 --> 01:10:33,520
Like, she, she might just 
remember things. 

1148
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:35,680
She's 9. 
Let's let's remember she's 9. 

1149
01:10:35,920 --> 01:10:40,400
Yeah, like she's probably 
telling it to the best of her 

1150
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:44,960
ability, but can we really take 
the word of a nine year old? 

1151
01:10:45,840 --> 01:10:50,120
And so they had done all these 
interviews, and really, her 

1152
01:10:50,120 --> 01:10:52,280
description of him never 
changed. 

1153
01:10:52,960 --> 01:10:59,800
And one day, she's just sitting 
in our bedroom randomly looking 

1154
01:10:59,800 --> 01:11:01,640
at the Guinness Book of World 
Records. 

1155
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:05,160
And she just came across this 
one page of, like, this 

1156
01:11:05,160 --> 01:11:09,400
extremely muscular woman. 
And my dad happened to walk in 

1157
01:11:09,400 --> 01:11:11,400
in that moment. 
And my sister was like, Dad, I 

1158
01:11:11,400 --> 01:11:13,360
think I know who kidnapped 
Elizabeth. 

1159
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:17,280
And she's like, it was, it was 
Emmanuel. 

1160
01:11:17,280 --> 01:11:20,600
It was that guy who came and 
worked at her house just one 

1161
01:11:20,600 --> 01:11:25,120
day, just just one time. 
And she's like, I think it was 

1162
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,160
him. 
And so my dad went to the 

1163
01:11:28,160 --> 01:11:31,360
police. 
They said he he said, I think 

1164
01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:34,360
Mary Catherine knows who 
kidnapped her. 

1165
01:11:35,240 --> 01:11:38,840
It's this guy named Emmanuel, 
and the police were kind of 

1166
01:11:38,840 --> 01:11:40,880
like, no, it's just Richard 
Reesey. 

1167
01:11:41,040 --> 01:11:43,800
Like, yeah, we think we know who
it is. 

1168
01:11:43,800 --> 01:11:45,120
Yeah, they had already figured 
it out. 

1169
01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:47,920
Sure. 
And my dad was like, no, like, 

1170
01:11:48,240 --> 01:11:53,280
we don't have anything else. 
Like, can we just look into him?

1171
01:11:53,720 --> 01:11:56,360
And so they kind of humored my 
dad and they're like, OK, we'll 

1172
01:11:56,360 --> 01:11:59,000
bring a sketch artist in and you
can. 

1173
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:00,360
Really. 
It was, this was just like, 

1174
01:12:00,360 --> 01:12:04,600
yeah, we'll just let's just do 
this because he's complaining or

1175
01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:05,240
something. 
Yeah. 

1176
01:12:05,680 --> 01:12:11,040
Wow and so they had like 2 of my
brothers come in and they tried 

1177
01:12:11,040 --> 01:12:13,960
to describe him and my dad was 
like well what about me? 

1178
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:15,960
I spent more time with him than 
anybody. 

1179
01:12:16,440 --> 01:12:20,800
Like the boys were hardly even 
around him so why can't I do? 

1180
01:12:20,800 --> 01:12:26,160
Once they're like, OK, you can 
do, you can do a sketch of him. 

1181
01:12:26,160 --> 01:12:28,880
And so they did a sketch of him 
and they're like, OK, well, 

1182
01:12:28,880 --> 01:12:32,160
we're not going to release this 
because we don't want him to 

1183
01:12:32,160 --> 01:12:35,440
know that we're looking into him
or anything like that. 

1184
01:12:36,240 --> 01:12:38,360
And they just told my dad to 
keep it quiet. 

1185
01:12:38,360 --> 01:12:42,800
But my dad, he had become 
friends with John Walsh of 

1186
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:47,480
America's Most Wanted, and he 
had called John Walsh up and he 

1187
01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:52,040
had explained the situation. 
And John Walsh was like, no, we 

1188
01:12:52,040 --> 01:12:54,920
need to go public with this. 
We need to, like, have everyone 

1189
01:12:54,920 --> 01:12:58,520
looking for him. 
We need to do everything we can.

1190
01:12:58,840 --> 01:13:03,480
And that, I think it was that 
night or it was very quickly 

1191
01:13:03,480 --> 01:13:08,520
after John Walsh went on Larry 
King Live, and that's when the 

1192
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,560
sketch was released. 
Yeah. 

1193
01:13:10,800 --> 01:13:13,840
Wow. 
And then because that sketch was

1194
01:13:13,840 --> 01:13:20,360
released, Brian Mitchell, my 
captor, his brother-in-law, saw 

1195
01:13:20,400 --> 01:13:24,400
the sketch and the name Emmanuel
had been put out. 

1196
01:13:24,880 --> 01:13:27,360
And that's when the 
brother-in-law was like, do you 

1197
01:13:27,360 --> 01:13:29,720
think it's possible? 
Like, do you think it's possible

1198
01:13:29,720 --> 01:13:33,400
that it could be, you know, your
brother to his wife? 

1199
01:13:33,400 --> 01:13:36,160
And he called up the police and 
he was like, I think I know who 

1200
01:13:36,160 --> 01:13:40,480
you're looking for. 
And that's what led to my 

1201
01:13:40,480 --> 01:13:43,800
rescue. 
Wow. 

1202
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:48,600
Oh my gosh. 
Wow. 

1203
01:13:49,560 --> 01:13:50,920
What? 
What were the, what were the 

1204
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:59,040
next, you know, six months, 
year, 18 months, two years after

1205
01:13:59,040 --> 01:14:00,560
you were rescued? 
What was that like for you? 

1206
01:14:02,480 --> 01:14:11,480
It was a it was a huge change, 
just learning that I couldn't go

1207
01:14:11,480 --> 01:14:14,360
back. 
Like there was no such thing as 

1208
01:14:14,360 --> 01:14:17,840
returning to the old normal. 
All of a sudden, everybody knew 

1209
01:14:17,840 --> 01:14:20,800
my name. 
Everybody recognized me. 

1210
01:14:20,800 --> 01:14:24,560
Everybody wanted to talk to me, 
tell me stories about where they

1211
01:14:24,560 --> 01:14:28,720
were the day that I was rescued 
or or their search stories for 

1212
01:14:28,720 --> 01:14:31,160
me, or how they prayed for me 
for nine months. 

1213
01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:33,640
Or how, you know, they slept 
with their parents. 

1214
01:14:33,640 --> 01:14:36,200
Or the parents would tell me 
about how their kids slept with 

1215
01:14:36,200 --> 01:14:39,360
them every night after I was 
kidnapped. 

1216
01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,120
I just had so many people 
telling me their stories and 

1217
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,040
their experiences around my 
kidnapping. 

1218
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:50,680
And then as I got older, telling
me their stories about being 

1219
01:14:50,680 --> 01:14:55,160
abused or being and feeling like
since I'd got through it, they 

1220
01:14:55,160 --> 01:15:01,200
could get through it. 
And all of it was a huge, it was

1221
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:06,640
a huge change for me because I'd
say naturally, like I'm, I'm a 

1222
01:15:06,640 --> 01:15:11,600
homebody, naturally I'm a bit of
an introvert. 

1223
01:15:12,320 --> 01:15:16,080
And so it was, it was a huge 
change. 

1224
01:15:16,280 --> 01:15:20,160
It was, I mean, it was 
exhausting, like having just 

1225
01:15:20,400 --> 01:15:26,960
everyone wanting to talk to me 
and like, I, so I will forever 

1226
01:15:26,960 --> 01:15:29,560
be grateful. 
I there's never been a day 

1227
01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:33,720
that's gone by that I have not 
been grateful for the search 

1228
01:15:33,720 --> 01:15:37,760
efforts, the love, the support, 
everything that I've received. 

1229
01:15:37,760 --> 01:15:42,000
Like I will be grateful for the 
rest of my life, but it's still,

1230
01:15:42,240 --> 01:15:44,840
it's still was overwhelming. 
I mean, I used to get letters 

1231
01:15:44,840 --> 01:15:48,400
from prison from inmates being 
like, if I'm ever in the same 

1232
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:51,360
room with him, you don't have to
worry about him ever again. 

1233
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:56,720
Or like randomly I'd get like 
proposals in the mail and 

1234
01:15:56,720 --> 01:16:01,480
engagement rings in the mail. 
I mean, it was, it was wild. 

1235
01:16:02,160 --> 01:16:03,720
Wow, what was it like going back
to high school? 

1236
01:16:04,840 --> 01:16:09,240
I was very excited to go back to
high school because when I've 

1237
01:16:09,240 --> 01:16:12,080
been kidnapped, I felt like 
everything had been taken away 

1238
01:16:12,080 --> 01:16:13,760
from me. 
And when I was rescued, I was 

1239
01:16:13,760 --> 01:16:16,200
like, I don't want to miss out 
on anything ever again. 

1240
01:16:16,640 --> 01:16:19,600
So I was very excited to go back
to high school. 

1241
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:22,400
But I mean, it was it was 
different. 

1242
01:16:22,400 --> 01:16:28,920
I can't help but wonder if maybe
parents had warned their kids 

1243
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:33,720
not to ask me questions or, you 
know, not to like just to be 

1244
01:16:33,720 --> 01:16:38,040
sensitive around me. 
And maybe that stopped people 

1245
01:16:38,040 --> 01:16:41,640
from because they didn't know 
how to act around me from maybe 

1246
01:16:41,840 --> 01:16:45,200
becoming like more friendly with
me. 

1247
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:50,560
But I feel like my friends who 
were friends with me before I 

1248
01:16:50,560 --> 01:16:53,280
was kidnapped, they were still 
my friends with me after. 

1249
01:16:53,600 --> 01:16:57,600
And as they'd made more friends 
in high school and invited them 

1250
01:16:57,600 --> 01:17:02,760
into our group, But those people
realized that like I was just 

1251
01:17:03,720 --> 01:17:10,000
just another kid. 
And so I think maybe it was it 

1252
01:17:10,000 --> 01:17:14,560
was probably a pretty different 
high school experience than 

1253
01:17:14,600 --> 01:17:18,120
other kids experience. 
Plus, you know, I had people who

1254
01:17:18,120 --> 01:17:24,120
were wanting to interview me and
like, they're like, I still was 

1255
01:17:24,120 --> 01:17:30,280
in the news fairly often because
of the trial and that taking so 

1256
01:17:30,280 --> 01:17:33,600
long. 
And I mean, it wasn't just like 

1257
01:17:33,600 --> 01:17:34,160
how? 
Did that take? 

1258
01:17:34,640 --> 01:17:40,160
It was, I mean, it was so long 
that I was called into the US 

1259
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:45,760
Attorney's office of Utah. 
And he, it was like, yeah, 

1260
01:17:45,760 --> 01:17:48,840
there's a statute of 
limitations, which means if that

1261
01:17:48,840 --> 01:17:56,920
statute of limitations passes 
and he's not convicted, it's not

1262
01:17:56,920 --> 01:17:59,360
gone to trial, he will be 
released. 

1263
01:18:00,200 --> 01:18:03,640
And are you interested in 
pressing federal charges? 

1264
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:07,160
Of course, Gee. 
Let me think about. 

1265
01:18:07,160 --> 01:18:09,280
That he would have come back 
after me again. 

1266
01:18:09,600 --> 01:18:12,160
And if he didn't come back after
me, he'd go after some other 

1267
01:18:12,160 --> 01:18:17,560
girl. 
So I mean, it was, it had been 

1268
01:18:17,560 --> 01:18:19,680
in the state courts for about 5 
years. 

1269
01:18:19,680 --> 01:18:22,440
It was moved to the federal 
courts. 

1270
01:18:22,680 --> 01:18:26,360
And that of course, took time to
get their case together. 

1271
01:18:26,600 --> 01:18:28,760
But they brought in the top 
experts. 

1272
01:18:30,040 --> 01:18:34,400
And I'm so grateful for that. 
And then, you know, the defense 

1273
01:18:34,400 --> 01:18:37,200
was always like, well, he's not 
competent to stand trial. 

1274
01:18:37,480 --> 01:18:39,840
Well, we're trying to prove his 
competency. 

1275
01:18:40,440 --> 01:18:43,880
It was always a question of is 
he competent now? 

1276
01:18:44,120 --> 01:18:46,400
Was he competent when he 
committed this crime? 

1277
01:18:46,640 --> 01:18:49,920
Which like, part of me was just 
like, are you kidding me? 

1278
01:18:50,160 --> 01:18:53,120
Was there ever any question that
he did this crime, whether he 

1279
01:18:53,120 --> 01:18:57,760
was competent or not? 
Like he committed a felony? 

1280
01:18:58,120 --> 01:19:01,360
Like he kidnapped me. 
He held me hostage for nine 

1281
01:19:01,360 --> 01:19:02,400
months. 
He abused me. 

1282
01:19:02,400 --> 01:19:06,080
He me, like, it shouldn't 
matter. 

1283
01:19:06,560 --> 01:19:08,560
He should be in prison the rest 
of his life. 

1284
01:19:08,760 --> 01:19:12,480
I mean honestly like I was OK 
with him having his life ended 

1285
01:19:12,480 --> 01:19:18,000
quicker but. 
I don't blame you at all. 

1286
01:19:18,520 --> 01:19:23,360
So, I mean, it took the better 
part of a decade before my case 

1287
01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,640
was finally sentenced. 
Oh. 

1288
01:19:26,760 --> 01:19:28,960
My gosh. 
Yeah. 

1289
01:19:29,160 --> 01:19:32,160
What was that Dave like for you?
I mean, it was a relief. 

1290
01:19:32,280 --> 01:19:37,080
I mean, it felt like finally, by
the time that my case finally 

1291
01:19:37,080 --> 01:19:39,280
came to court, I'd been in 
France. 

1292
01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:44,120
I was living in France at the 
time, and I came back from 

1293
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,840
France and they're like, well, 
we just really need you for your

1294
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,000
testimony. 
And then you can go back to 

1295
01:19:50,000 --> 01:19:54,320
France if you want. 
And I was just like, no, I'm 

1296
01:19:54,320 --> 01:19:56,560
going to stay here until it's 
done. 

1297
01:19:56,800 --> 01:19:59,520
Like I don't want to have to go 
through this again if I get 

1298
01:19:59,520 --> 01:20:03,080
recalled to the stand at some 
point, like I'm going to be here

1299
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:05,520
and. 
I did. 

1300
01:20:05,680 --> 01:20:09,280
I was there every single day in 
court until it was finished. 

1301
01:20:09,280 --> 01:20:12,800
And then when it was finished 
and the verdict came back, 

1302
01:20:12,800 --> 01:20:16,600
guilty on all counts. 
I mean, it was, it was a relief.

1303
01:20:16,600 --> 01:20:19,960
I was like, finally, this is the
end of this chapter. 

1304
01:20:20,160 --> 01:20:26,120
Wow, that's incredible. 
I have one big question for you.

1305
01:20:26,120 --> 01:20:28,280
Ask everybody and I honestly 
don't know the answer to this. 

1306
01:20:28,280 --> 01:20:29,800
I thought I would know the 
answers, but I don't know the 

1307
01:20:29,800 --> 01:20:37,000
answer to this question for you.
If you could go back in time and

1308
01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,280
stop that night from ever 
happening, would you do it? 

1309
01:20:54,670 --> 01:21:05,550
I'm going to go with no because 
I have learned so much. 

1310
01:21:06,390 --> 01:21:11,070
I have found a purpose for my 
life that I don't know I would 

1311
01:21:11,070 --> 01:21:16,080
have otherwise found. 
I think you could have told me 

1312
01:21:16,080 --> 01:21:19,960
about sexual exploitation and 
violence and kidnapping and 

1313
01:21:19,960 --> 01:21:22,720
abuse. 
And if I saw a fundraiser or a 

1314
01:21:22,720 --> 01:21:25,280
bake sale, I'd be like, yeah, 
here's 100 bucks, good luck, 

1315
01:21:25,280 --> 01:21:28,440
keep going. 
But I don't know that I would 

1316
01:21:28,440 --> 01:21:33,000
have gotten that much involved 
further than that. 

1317
01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:39,640
And I probably would not have 
met my husband. 

1318
01:21:39,640 --> 01:21:42,760
And if I hadn't met my husband, 
I wouldn't have my children. 

1319
01:21:43,400 --> 01:21:45,640
I wouldn't have the life that I 
have today. 

1320
01:21:45,640 --> 01:21:51,800
And despite everything, like I 
am happy and I do have a good 

1321
01:21:51,800 --> 01:22:00,080
life. 
And I, for as terrible as 

1322
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:04,360
everything was, I am grateful 
for who I am today. 

1323
01:22:04,840 --> 01:22:07,800
That's that's. 
I'm so glad you answered it that

1324
01:22:07,800 --> 01:22:08,760
way. 
I really am. 

1325
01:22:08,760 --> 01:22:15,480
I think that's that's important 
for people to hear that because 

1326
01:22:15,520 --> 01:22:20,320
I think that your work today is 
so important and what you do is 

1327
01:22:20,320 --> 01:22:23,280
so important and the incredible 
amount of people that you've 

1328
01:22:23,280 --> 01:22:27,440
helped is so important and 
you're here and you're alive and

1329
01:22:27,440 --> 01:22:30,800
you're doing great things. 
And so I think you're a pretty 

1330
01:22:30,800 --> 01:22:31,920
incredible person. 
Well. 

1331
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:36,160
Thank you. 
So appreciate you doing this and

1332
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:38,040
thanks for being here and all 
the things and letting us come 

1333
01:22:38,040 --> 01:22:42,760
to your house and love the dog. 
Anybody was wondering that was 

1334
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:47,560
the dog and anything else? 
I think that's everything. 

1335
01:22:47,560 --> 01:22:49,080
That's it. 
And that's all she wrote. 

1336
01:22:49,120 --> 01:22:50,000
Appreciate it. 
Thanks. 

1337
01:22:50,920 --> 01:22:51,320
Thank you.