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Hello chefs. 
You're listening to chefs. 

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PS a podcast. 
I'm your host Andrew natera. 

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Today, we're going to get into a
controversial PSA that I posted 

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the other day and that is that 
taste is greater and more 

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important than presentation. 
And I know I'm going to catch 

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some heat for this when I posted
the PSA, everyone's in my DM say

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no I'm wrong. 
Presentation is equally as 

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important blah blah, blah blah 
blah. 

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Wrong taste is superior and I 
want to talk about why and I 

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know it's a controversial 
subject. 

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I know there's like a lot of a 
lot of chefs are like, no, no. 

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But you eat with your eyes first
chef? 

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Yeah, that's that's dumb. 
And I'm not saying that 

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presentation isn't important. 
Because it is, and if you work 

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in a high-end restaurant, 
plating skills are critical, you

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need to know how to use your 
offset spatula. 

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You need to use your tweezers. 
You need to know how to make 

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canals with spoons. 
You need to know how to properly

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dab your meat and so on and so 
forth. 

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You need to have your random 
placement of flowers and herbs 

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and microgreens and garnishes 
presentation is important. 

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And I don't want to discredit 
that, but in the hierarchy of 

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importance, Presentation is not 
greater than taste. 

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So I want to share a story with 
everyone when I was a very young

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cook. 
You know. 

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I don't know about 22 years old,
I was really excited to go to a 

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seminar with a certified Master 
Chef and you know for people 

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that are not from my era a 
certified Master Chef was a huge

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deal, it still is a huge deal. 
I don't know if it has the same 

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popularity as it did when I was 
coming up, but it's still a huge

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deal. 
It's very it's a very difficult 

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exam to become a certified 
Master Chef through the American

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culinary Federation. 
Duration, you know, there's a 

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cooking practical, there was a 
some tests that you had to take.

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You have to be a certified 
executive, chef blah, blah, blah

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point, being that. 
It's a big deal. 

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If you're a certified Master 
Chef. 

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So when I was a young cook, I 
went to a seminar with a 

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certified Master Chef and he 
said something that stayed with 

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me pretty much for the rest of 
my career and really changed my 

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mind. 
Because, you know, master chefs 

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at that point in time, really 
worthy Authority, when it came 

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to cooking and what the Master 
Chef said. 

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To me, because I was a young 
cook. 

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I cared about plating I wanted. 
You know, I wanted my food to 

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look cool. 
I wanted it to have all the, all

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the, you know, soigne garnish. 
And all the things that impress 

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people, when they look at food, 
I was really into plate. 

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And I would practice plating 
more, that I'd practice cooking 

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and the Master Chef said, when 
you get a beautiful dish, And 

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you're blind. 
Does it matter? 

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Do you care that? 
It's beautiful. 

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If you cannot see and he had a 
great point and someone argued. 

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Well, you eat with your eyes. 
First you know, presentation is 

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everything he said, okay great. 
But how long does presentation 

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matter? 
It usually only matters for a 

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few seconds before you start 
eating it which I thought was a 

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very bad, a valid point and it 
really changed my thought 

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process into how I think about 
plating, how I think about food 

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because a lot of times we spend 
so much time Each time making 

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sure that the dish is beautiful.
We live in the digital world. 

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Now everyone has Instagram, 
everyone's posting their art of 

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plating dishes, you know, 
tagging food stars, or whoever, 

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right? 
And people go out of their way 

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to get some clout on Instagram 
with beautiful plating. 

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And I'm not going to lie, some 
of the, some of the plates are 

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beautiful. 
And but I would say don't be 

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fooled. 
A lot of the food that you see 

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on Instagram for some of these, 
you know. 

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Plating websites or I'm sorry. 
Plating plating Pages, it's 

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ait's a, it's bullshit food. 
It's stuff that would never work

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in a restaurant. 
It's stuff that is specifically 

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designed to be displayed on 
Instagram and the reason you 

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wouldn't serve it in a 
restaurant is because, you know,

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you might have 20 30 touch 
points on it and you have three 

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Cooks. 
So it's not realistic food. 

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Now, I'm not talking about these
world-class restaurants like, 

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you know, Nomar per se or 
something like that, you know, 

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when they're Posting food, 
that's really how you're going 

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to get it. 
And and those restaurants what 

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I'm talking about is like the 
guy that you've never heard of 

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that has 200,000 followers on 
Instagram and, you know, he's 

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got, you know, the the universal
spiral of some sort of puree 

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with a whole bunch of flowers 
and you know, it looks really 

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pretty. 
I don't know if it tastes good. 

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That's that's kind of the point 
is we put so much focus on 

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plating because we're 
incentivised on social media to 

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be rewarded. 
With likes and comments and 

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shares because our food is 
pretty and played it nicely, but

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if you're a chef or cook and I'm
assuming you are because you're 

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listening to this the food that 
you serve on Instagram, does it 

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matter unless you could pull it 
off in your restaurant. 

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That's what's important and 
needs to be delicious in the 

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restaurant. 
So I would ask anyone to go 

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through this exercise that I 
like to use is think about the 

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Most beautiful dish you've ever 
been served or created, right? 

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So so think about that dish, 
what it looked like and and have

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that in your mind. 
Now write that dish down or 

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remember it. 
And now think back to the best 

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dish or best meal you've ever 
had. 

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And then I would challenge you, 
are they the same is the most 

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beautiful dish that you've ever 
had. 

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Also the most delicious dish 
that you've ever had and the 

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chances are, they're not. 
And, and the fact of the matter 

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is, I know, they're not. 
And if you come to me and say, 

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no, they are there. 
Same dish and say, okay you're 

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full of shit, you just want to 
prove a point because I know 

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they're not some of the best 
meals that you've had some of 

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the most tasty are the, you 
know, it's the beautiful Taco 

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that you're getting from a from 
a, from a food truck or at 

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someone's home or a moment in 
time at a world-class 

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restaurant. 
These are the most delicious 

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things that you've had in 
sometimes the most delicious. 

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The most delicious things are 
plated. 

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You know, very humbly, very 
Simply. 

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And so it's important that we 
see the distinction between 

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plating and taste. 
Now, even though we went through

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that exercise, there's still 
going to be people that say no 

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no no presentation is more 
important, okay? 

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And I still haven't convinced 
you. 

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So we're going to try one last 
time to convince you. 

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Why taste is superior to 
plating. 

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Let's say, you have to choose 
and there's two plates in front 

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of you. 
One of those plates is 

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absolutely beautiful. 
It has everything on it, it has 

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some stupid spiral of a puree. 
It has flowers. 

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It has shaved raw vegetables. 
It's plated in a amazing fashion

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that you'd expect from someone 
that you've never heard of that 

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has 100,000 followers. 
It's just stunning. 

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But there's a catch, it's 
spoiled. 

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Now, there's another plate next 
to it and the other plate. 

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It served on a disposable plate 
and it's humbly presented, but 

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it is just super tasty cooked by
one of the best chefs. 

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In the world. 
But it looks sloppy because it's

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on a on a disposable plate. 
Which one do you want to eat? 

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Do you want to eat the delicious
dish that looks? 

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Okay. 
Or do you want to eat the 

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spoiled food? 
That looks beautiful? 

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I mean, it's a rhetorical 
question because if you have, 

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you know, any doubt that you 
would eat the delicious food 

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over the spoiled food? 
Well, then I think we could, we 

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could kind of rest the case a 
little bit that taste is the 

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most important thing and then 
presentation would come second. 

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Now, I feel like I've been 
beating up presentation a little

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bit, so I want to expand upon 
that presentation is important 

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and knowing how to plate is a 
skill and we touched on that 

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earlier. 
But here's here's another 

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thought exercise. 
If you could think of something 

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like the classic dishes, you 
know, a roasted chicken or a 

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prime rib or anything like that.
These are dishes that would be 

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delicious. 50 years ago, they 
were delicious 20 years ago, 

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they're delicious today most 
likely they will be delicious 20

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years from now 50 years from 
now, so on and so forth. 

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Because things that taste good 
are going to taste good 

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regardless of where you are in 
time, right? 

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But when it comes to plating and
presentation, that is evolving 

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very quickly. 
You know, that's a, you know, 

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that's an art form. 
That's, that's, that's changing 

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with Trends and it's And it's 
very quick. 

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Now, right, you could go back. 
I would challenge most chefs to 

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do this. 
Go back and look at your plates 

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from a few years ago. 
And then look at your food now 

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and then say okay. 
Which one do you like better? 

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Most likely going to say, oh, 
okay. 

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I like my plating style now but 
a few years ago the way you were

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plating. 
Like that was that was all the 

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rage food Trends and plating 
Trends evolved. 

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So quickly that your head is 
going to be spending trying to 

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keep up with what is the latest 
and greatest way to present 

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food. 
So, I would say fundamentally 

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make sure that your food is 
delicious first. 

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So this is what I do when I'm 
developing a dish. 

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I make sure it tastes good. 
I go through the iterative 

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process, we try it with 
different chefs when everyone's 

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satisfied that. 
Okay, it's delicious. 

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Then we work backwards on the 
plating, like, okay, now that it

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tastes good. 
How do we make sure it looks 

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good. 
And sometimes, you know, I'm not

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going to sit up here on my high 
horse and say that, I don't 

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sometimes make decisions based 
on presentation because I do, 

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but I've refined it along. 
The way like I don't make as 

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many stupid mistakes as I did 
early on, in my career when I 

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thought plating was more 
important. 

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So there's a lot of ways that 
you could enhance the 

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presentation and this is goes 
everything from, you know, if 

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you're working in that type of 
restaurant, maybe you pour the 

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sauce tableside, maybe you add 
another version of the same 

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vegetable. 
So maybe you have a puree of a 

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vegetable and then you also have
a cooked version of the same 

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vegetable looking beautifully 
or, you know, you have herbs or 

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whatever is going to impact the 
color on there. 

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But the old saying is If you put
something on the plate it should

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have a purpose. 
And you know, they used to drill

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that into our heads in culinary 
school like everything on the 

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plate. 
Needs to have a purpose and 

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you're like yeah, you got to 
have functional garnishes. 

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Yeah, yeah, I get it. 
It makes a lot more sense. 

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Now, that I'm designing dishes 
because I see so many dishes. 

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Now that have things on them, 
that really don't belong. 

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And you wonder, why is that on 
that dish? 

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It doesn't belong. 
And if the only reason it's on 

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the dishes because it makes it 
look better but it doesn't Make 

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it taste better and may you may 
need to remove it because it may

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be detracting from the overall 
presentation. 

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So I think it's very important 
to work first with the dish and 

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then work on presentation s. 
So I want to make sure that 

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that's clear. 
I'm not I'm not one of these 

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people. 
That says oh yeah, taste matters

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and presentation, that's not 
important. 

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Presentation is important but 
it's Step 2 in the process now, 

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people listening to this podcast
may or may not know if you know 

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me personally and you're one of 
my friends, you know, obviously 

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that I was a chef for 20. 
Seven years and I've stepped 

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away from the kitchen. 
You I'd like to say, I'm 

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retired, but what I mean, is, 
I'm no longer running 

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professional kitchens day to day
after so many years in there. 

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I thought it was time to step 
away and the reason I bring that

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up is because if one day, I ever
decide to go back into the 

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kitchen, people say, are you 
worried that time will pass you 

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by that? 
The food will evolve, and the 

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trends will evolve and you know,
quite honestly. 

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No, I'm not too worried about 
it. 

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Obviously, I fully understand 
that if I were to take 10 years 

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off and we see how quickly food 
evolves within one year. 

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So, if you could extrapolate 
that to 10 years out, I think we

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would see some massive changes 
in the way that we cook in the 

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ingredients that were using, and
to what's trendy. 

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But I wouldn't really worry too 
much. 

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So, let's just use this as a 
thought experiment. 

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If you pulled me out of cooking 
for 10 years that you threw me 

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back in. 
And you said, we need you to 

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perform Format the top, I 
wouldn't worry because during my

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time as a chef, I picked up 
invaluable skills. 

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Along the way. 
I know how to lead a kitchen. 

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I know how to manage a kitchen. 
I understand how to cook. 

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I know how to use a knife. 
I know how to use pots and pans.

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I know how to work with 
different ingredients. 

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My fundamentals are strong. 
What I would do is I would say. 

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Okay, give me a few weeks. 
Let me research who the top 

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restaurants in the world are. 
Let me see what the plating. 

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Miles are, let me see what to 
the ingredients tiles are. 

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Let me see what's new that I'm 
unaware of. 

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Let me see what's no longer 
relevant and then let me take it

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from there. 
I don't think it would be that 

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difficult because I already know
how to cook. 

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The only thing I'd be updating 
is just, you know, the trend 

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changed, right? 
So that's new. 

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And the plating style changed, 
that's new. 

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But unless we're cooking with 
robots, everyone still is using 

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a knife. 
There's one still works on a 

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cutting board. 
One still working with pots and 

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pans. 
I don't think I'd be that big of

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a fish out of water. 
And so, that's why I always tell

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people, like, in the order of 
hierarchy, it's like know how to

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cook, make sure it tastes good. 
Presentation comes third, 

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because presentation is the one 
that is going to change the 

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fastest and be least relevant 
over time. 

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And what you want to do as a 
chef is you want to build skills

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that are Timeless. 
That this is this is going to 

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give your career longevity. 
So, you know, I know that's a 

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little bit of a rant one. 
Last point, I Make is a lot of 

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people say, well what happens to
these chefs that don't evolve, 

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you know, why is it that they 
can't figure out the latest 

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plating Trend, or whatever it 
is? 

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That that has kind of at a 
certain point made them no 

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longer relevant in the dining 
scene. 

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And I could tell you because I 
this is something that I 

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struggled with my last couple of
years. 

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In the kitchen is the plating 
seems less and less important 

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over time. 
And the food that's delicious to

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you is universally delicious but
people have seen it before and 

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so when people say like what do 
I crave? 

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I crave simple meals, you know, 
a good piece of fish, a grilled 

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steak roast a chicken, whatever 
the case may be, I don't 

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necessarily crave the most, 
beautiful trendy dish and I 

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think that's where a lot of 
chefs go wrong. 

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Is they still want to play at 
the top? 

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They still want to be an 
important Chef in their 

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Community, but they don't want 
to Evolve with the trends and, 

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and, and the plating cells. 
And I'll be honest with you. 

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This is this is where plating 
and Trends are important, 

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because if you don't want to 
play that game anymore, you run 

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the risk. 
And I'm not saying it's gonna 

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happen to everybody, but you do 
run the risk of no longer being 

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relevant at the top end of those
competitive restaurants. 

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So something for chefs to keep 
in mind is that I felt like I 

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was pretty good as a chef, like 
a trek. 

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Cognizing the trends and 
understanding that we had to be 

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on them. 
But if I could be honest, that 

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00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:28,300
food didn't excite me. 
I just knew that, like, okay, if

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we're going to play at this 
level and we're going to play at

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the top, this is the kind of 
food that we need to do these 

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the ingredients that we need to 
look at this is what we need to 

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Plate, like, but it didn't 
excite me. 

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I just knew I was playing the 
game at that point, because what

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always excites me is just 
simple, technical, beautiful, 

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00:15:46,000 --> 00:15:52,200
delicious food and that to me is
more Timeless than You know, to 

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the thing that I keep harping on
is, you know, the the, the silly

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00:15:55,700 --> 00:15:59,800
art of plating swirls with, you 
know, purple and orange and all 

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these incredible colors anyway, 
rant over. 

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00:16:04,000 --> 00:16:06,800
I hope you all enjoyed today's 
rant, and hopefully, you took 

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00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,900
something away from it. 
Learn something. 

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Maybe you agree with me. 
Maybe I changed your perspective

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00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:13,600
on this. 
Maybe you still think I'm full 

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00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,400
of shit. 
Regardless, doesn't matter? 

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00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:17,900
I want to make sure that you 
heard it. 

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00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:23,700
I explain my case and hopefully 
you can use this in your own 

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00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:26,500
thoughts and methodology when 
running your own kitchen. 

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So anyway, we'll see you on the 
next one. 

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00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:24,800
Thank you all. you can use this 
in your own thoughts and 

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00:16:24,808 --> 00:16:26,500
methodology when running your 
own kitchen. 

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00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,100
So anyway, we'll see you on the 
next one. 

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Thank you all.