1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,760
So all the vanilla that are 
implemented in other part of the

2
00:00:03,760 --> 00:00:06,280
world have to be hand 
pollinated. 

3
00:00:06,560 --> 00:00:09,800
So every morning during the 
season, which is in September 

4
00:00:09,800 --> 00:00:14,480
and October in Madagascar, women
because smaller finger will go 

5
00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,320
and you know, it needs vine that
they have in on their piece of 

6
00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,760
land. 
They will hand pollinate. 

7
00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:24,640
And I've done that step when I 
went to Yeah. 

8
00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:28,800
So they take like a little, 
usually a thorn. 

9
00:00:29,000 --> 00:00:32,080
Hello chefs, this is Chefs PSA 
and I'm your host Andre Natera. 

10
00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:36,040
Today I'm joined by my friend 
Emmanuel La Roche, host of 

11
00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:39,360
Flavors Unknown podcast and 
author focused on global food 

12
00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:41,400
culture. 
We talked about his journey to 

13
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,240
Madagascar, home to most of the 
world's vanilla, his experiences

14
00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:47,960
travelling through remote 
regions, and how that led to his

15
00:00:47,960 --> 00:00:50,280
latest book, A Taste of 
Madagascar. 

16
00:00:50,520 --> 00:00:53,080
We get into his writing process,
what he's learned from chefs 

17
00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,200
around the world, global food 
trends and global flavors. 

18
00:00:56,480 --> 00:01:11,000
Stay tuned. 
What was the most wild thing? 

19
00:01:11,000 --> 00:01:12,880
Like, can you, can you think of 
a moment when you were in 

20
00:01:12,880 --> 00:01:15,960
Madagascar that you were like, 
oh, I'm in a I'm in. 

21
00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:17,760
Like, do you have a story that's
like, OK. 

22
00:01:17,960 --> 00:01:19,800
Yeah, it's a long story, but 
yes. 

23
00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:27,920
OK, so there was a special trip 
that I have taken, not on my own

24
00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:30,560
because in Madagascar you 
cannot, you know, rent a car and

25
00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,080
just decide that, you know, to 
go like this you need to have a 

26
00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:37,640
driver. 
So I decided to stay an extra 

27
00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:42,080
week after, you know, my guests,
American chef, you know, left 

28
00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:46,800
and went back to to the US and I
went to the West side of the 

29
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:52,040
country and there is National 
Park that I wanted to spend time

30
00:01:52,040 --> 00:01:58,400
on. 
And it took 9 hours in Dart Road

31
00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:06,120
to get from where I landed to 
the park. 9 hours one way, one 

32
00:02:06,120 --> 00:02:12,400
hours another the way back. 
And we were on, you know, on our

33
00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,440
own that the driver, I was 
sitting, you know, the pass 

34
00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,280
entrance seats and, and I 
thought he was like nervous, but

35
00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:24,080
I had no idea why. 
And I was asking questions, you 

36
00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:27,680
know, of course, you know, going
into through villages and 

37
00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:32,360
fantastic landscapes and so on. 
So I was asking him and, and I 

38
00:02:32,360 --> 00:02:35,840
said, Hey, you're a bit nervous,
so why? 

39
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:37,360
And he said, no, no, everything 
is fine. 

40
00:02:37,480 --> 00:02:41,960
You know, I guess he had, you 
know, some directive or like, 

41
00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:47,920
you know, not to share too much.
And then then I started to 

42
00:02:47,960 --> 00:02:51,120
understand asking questions that
we should not have not have been

43
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,960
on our own. 
We should have been part of the 

44
00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:58,520
convoy of a series of, you know,
cars like about 25, you know, 4 

45
00:02:58,520 --> 00:03:01,880
wheel drives. 
And because of the fact that I 

46
00:03:01,880 --> 00:03:07,400
needed some cash at the bank 
when I landed, we started late 

47
00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:09,600
because there was a line in the 
bank and blah, blah, blah. 

48
00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:15,160
And so he said, yeah, we should 
have been part of that. 

49
00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:17,800
And but we are going to, you 
know, to join them. 

50
00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:20,080
They are going to wait for us. 
And, you know, next village 

51
00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:22,760
probably and next village, no 
cars. 

52
00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:25,880
And the guys was really now pale
white. 

53
00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:29,640
And, you know, his knuckles was 
really like tense, like on the 

54
00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:31,680
wheel. 
And I'm like, OK, now you have 

55
00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:33,880
to tell me what is going on 
here. 

56
00:03:35,000 --> 00:03:40,840
He said, OK, what happened? 
He is that there is bandits in a

57
00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:43,800
group of bandits in the region 
that we are just crossing at the

58
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:47,840
moment. 
And they are in fact stealing 

59
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:52,560
handbag cows, which is one of 
the big, I would say sign of 

60
00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,720
wealth, you know, in, you know, 
for farmers in in Madagascar. 

61
00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:01,400
And there's a tradition that 
when you are moving from, you 

62
00:04:01,400 --> 00:04:07,320
know, a teenage yours as a boy 
to an adulthood, then you are to

63
00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,960
go to the next tribe and steal, 
you know, those kind of. 

64
00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,480
Like a rite of passage. 
Exactly a rite of passage. 

65
00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:19,959
And but what happened is that 
tradition, in fact, turning to 

66
00:04:20,279 --> 00:04:23,040
some group of bandits, you know,
in other part of the of the 

67
00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,960
country. 
And I learned from my driver 

68
00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:31,200
that if they don't find, you 
know, the cattle to steal, then 

69
00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:34,920
they will go back to and, you 
know, return on like whatever 

70
00:04:34,920 --> 00:04:37,680
they can find. 
And usually it's some of the 

71
00:04:37,680 --> 00:04:42,840
tourist cars are passing by, you
know, and he said a few years 

72
00:04:42,840 --> 00:04:46,880
back, so he was before COVID, 
you know, there was one car that

73
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:50,760
was stopped and in fact, there 
was a shooting and, you know, 

74
00:04:50,760 --> 00:04:55,320
someone was injured and I'm not,
oh, oh, OK, so now I, I get it. 

75
00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:56,960
But he said he's getting, we are
fine now. 

76
00:04:56,960 --> 00:05:02,760
We, we passed that zone. 
And so I, I spend my time at the

77
00:05:02,760 --> 00:05:04,920
National Park. 
He was, he was amazing 

78
00:05:04,920 --> 00:05:07,000
experience. 
And then on the way back, I'm 

79
00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:10,400
like, OK, how is it going to be,
you know, what's going to be the

80
00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,120
situation? 
And this time we were at 25 

81
00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,040
cars. 
I was on the front car and 

82
00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:20,040
someone from the Army, like 
really went on that side to go 

83
00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:22,920
in the back of the car and there
was a guys with a rifle, you 

84
00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,160
know, sitting on the front seat.
So there was another guy in the 

85
00:05:25,160 --> 00:05:27,760
middle of the convoy and another
one on the last car. 

86
00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,080
And we went through, you know, a
series of village and villages 

87
00:05:31,080 --> 00:05:33,080
and and, you know, and 
everything was fine. 

88
00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:37,320
But but I was, you know, a type 
of a interesting adventure that,

89
00:05:37,480 --> 00:05:41,280
you know, that took place. 
What what inspired this? 

90
00:05:41,440 --> 00:05:43,200
So for people that don't know, 
you just wrote this beautiful 

91
00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,520
book, which I've been, I've been
flipping through the last couple

92
00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,280
of days. 
I'm enjoying it. 

93
00:05:48,280 --> 00:05:50,600
It's a beautiful book, by the 
way, great photography and there

94
00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:54,960
wonderful recipes. 
What inspired this? 

95
00:05:54,960 --> 00:05:59,240
Because you know, I'm thinking 
back to when we spoke right 

96
00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:01,040
before you started writing this.
And I remember you asking me 

97
00:06:01,040 --> 00:06:03,320
like, what do you think about 
Madagascar and vanilla? 

98
00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:05,320
And, and you said there's more 
to the story. 

99
00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,480
And, and at the time I was like,
well, I don't, I don't know 

100
00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:10,640
anything. 
So then you went and you, you 

101
00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:11,920
took, you took some chefs with 
you. 

102
00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:17,480
Yeah, so, So what happened is 
that my I did 3 trips to to the 

103
00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:19,720
island. 
One was professional and then 

104
00:06:19,720 --> 00:06:24,320
two were like personal vacation.
The first one, I really went to 

105
00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:28,920
Madagascar because of Venida. 
If people don't know 80% of the 

106
00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,280
world production of Venida being
comes from that island come from

107
00:06:32,280 --> 00:06:36,360
Madagascar. 
So I organized my like day job. 

108
00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:42,520
I organized like competition 
with one of our vanilla extracts

109
00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:47,480
that was for the hospitality 
industry and about 80 chefs and 

110
00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:49,440
pastry chef mixologies 
participated. 

111
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,600
And the grand prize was for me 
to take the three winners, you 

112
00:06:53,600 --> 00:06:56,520
know, closer to the source of 
vanilla, so to Madagascar. 

113
00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,840
So I took Chef Elizabeth 
Faulkner with me. 

114
00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:09,200
I took Michael, Michael Guilota 
from from New Orleans and then 

115
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,480
Shannon T Bay that at the time 
just left, I think Death and 

116
00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,680
Company. 
She was the director of Beverage

117
00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:17,400
and Death and Company in New. 
York Good, good group. 

118
00:07:17,640 --> 00:07:19,800
So good group. 
Yeah, yeah, I know Elizabeth 

119
00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:23,000
through, you know, I mean 
through James Beard and what not

120
00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:23,840
for sure. 
Yeah. 

121
00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:28,360
She's an amazing chef. 
She it's good company to have. 

122
00:07:28,520 --> 00:07:31,280
And I knew them because I had 
them on the podcast already, you

123
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:33,240
know, and Flavours Unknown, I 
had at least two of them. 

124
00:07:33,240 --> 00:07:38,160
I had Elizabeth Faulkner and and
Michael Goetta, so that that was

125
00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:42,960
really like the, the objective 
of the trip was to discover 

126
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,640
vanilla. 
And when I went there, I had 

127
00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,400
absolutely no idea that I will 
write my second book, you know, 

128
00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:54,680
on Madagascar. 
I I wanted to find an idea, you 

129
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,440
know, to write the second book 
after Conversations Behind the 

130
00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:00,280
Kitchen Door that I published in
2022. 

131
00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:01,960
Which is a great book, by the 
way, for people that don't know 

132
00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:04,760
Conversations Behind the Kitchen
Door. 

133
00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,200
By the way, the first quote is 
mine, right? 

134
00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:07,640
Yes. 
Yeah. 

135
00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,280
The very first quote. 
I don't remember what it is. 

136
00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:12,000
I know, I know the first. 
I know that you put on there. 

137
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:14,120
I know one of mine. 
But there's a lot of great chefs

138
00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:16,640
featured in there. 
Who are some of the chefs in the

139
00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,040
book. 
I know I'm in. 50 of them. 50 

140
00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,800
chefs like Chris Cosantino. 
Yeah, Chris Cosantino is only 

141
00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:24,400
There is a bet. 
Faulkner is on it. 

142
00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:31,600
You know you are on it. 
There is Chef Tim Muddingworth 

143
00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:35,799
from from LA There is Fiori 
Tedesco. 

144
00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:39,600
Fiori Tedesco from Austin. 
Maybe Phillip Spear also. 

145
00:08:40,039 --> 00:08:42,159
Yeah, A. 
Lot of really great chefs. 

146
00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:45,040
So that book, which I want to 
get into, but you know, in a 

147
00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,480
second, but for people that 
don't know you have, I mean, 

148
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:49,360
most people should know you have
this great podcast Flavors 

149
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:51,880
unknown. 
It's a, it's a, it's a where you

150
00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:55,560
get to speak to a lot of chefs. 
And that first book was a 

151
00:08:55,560 --> 00:08:59,960
companion to the podcast. 
Yeah, it was, it was, Yeah, 

152
00:08:59,960 --> 00:09:03,080
exactly. 
It was inspired like the writing

153
00:09:03,080 --> 00:09:06,320
the book was based on the rich 
content that I had from the 

154
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:11,640
podcast and and as well my 
experience of experiences around

155
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:13,920
the country of, you know, doing 
a lot of tastings, you know, 

156
00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:15,800
with with, you know, at 
restaurants. 

157
00:09:15,840 --> 00:09:18,280
So so writing that first book, 
you thought, well, I should do 

158
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:19,960
a. 
Second, yeah, I, you know, I 

159
00:09:19,960 --> 00:09:22,200
really like the process of 
writing a book and I'm sure 

160
00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:25,040
we're going to talk about it. 
But the, the idea from you was 

161
00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:27,960
like, OK, you know, if I find a 
second idea and then, you know, 

162
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:31,440
I'll, I'll, I'll do it. 
And so I arrive on on the 

163
00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:36,040
island, we did the whole 
discovery of, of vanilla. 

164
00:09:36,280 --> 00:09:41,360
And then I was exposed to a lot 
of other ingredients that I 

165
00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:44,640
realized that chefs around the 
world are using their kitchen 

166
00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,360
and people have no idea it's 
coming from Madagascar. 

167
00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,280
And so for instance, there is a 
wild black pepper, which is 

168
00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:57,200
endemic from the island. 
Amazing profile with kind of 

169
00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:02,560
like citrusy, you know, notes. 
There is obviously pink 

170
00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:05,200
peppercorn because I learned 
that Madagascar is the second 

171
00:10:05,200 --> 00:10:07,840
producer of pink peppercorn 
after Brazil. 

172
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,720
And then there is, you know, 
honey, a lot of different honey 

173
00:10:13,720 --> 00:10:20,760
because 90% of the flora and the
fauna in Madagascar is only 

174
00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:24,280
found there. 
So there's a rich biodiversity. 

175
00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,400
So there's a lot of different, 
you know, trees and blossoms and

176
00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:28,880
so on. 
So you have honey from 

177
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:33,880
mangroves, you have honey from 
lychee, you have so primary 

178
00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:36,240
forest and so cocoa and cocoa, 
yeah. 

179
00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:40,880
So even if they are very like 
small producer, they produce 

180
00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:44,720
only .1% of the total production
of cocoa. 

181
00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,760
Their profile because of the 
species, you know, where there's

182
00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,640
like different species, three 
major species of cocoa, 

183
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:59,120
Forestero is 1 and Creolo is the
most refined and they are trying

184
00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:02,320
to focus on producing that 
profile. 

185
00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:07,520
So very interesting notes of red
fruits and and citrus in their 

186
00:11:07,520 --> 00:11:11,520
in their cocoa and then caviar, 
which was like really big 

187
00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:12,720
discovery. 
Yeah, I know you do. 

188
00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:19,000
So, so that was like, really, 
when I saw all of this, I'm 

189
00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:23,160
like, okay, every time I hear 
about Madagascar on the news, 

190
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,760
it's about negative things. 
Well, and I said I want the 

191
00:11:25,760 --> 00:11:27,320
cartoon this. 
All the cartoon. 

192
00:11:27,400 --> 00:11:28,880
Yes, yeah. 
What you talk about in your 

193
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:30,520
book, you said everyone only 
thinks about the. 

194
00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,400
First time I talked to people 
when I said, by the way, I'm 

195
00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:35,520
going to write a book about 
Madagascar. 

196
00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,360
You mean the movie? 
I'm like, why'd you say what? 

197
00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,360
What do you mean? 
I said no, it's an island, it's 

198
00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:44,520
a country and say, really? 
Yeah, most people had no idea, 

199
00:11:44,520 --> 00:11:45,200
right? 
No idea. 

200
00:11:45,240 --> 00:11:47,680
Yeah, no idea. 
It's funny because when I think 

201
00:11:47,680 --> 00:11:49,840
of Madagascar, besides the 
movie, I think about the, you 

202
00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:51,640
know, vanilla. 
You know, Madagascar vanilla, 

203
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,160
which is like most likely the 
industry standard. 

204
00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:56,400
It is the industry standard for 
most chefs. 

205
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,680
One of the questions I would 
have for you having spent so 

206
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,840
much time in Madagascar, When I 
think of vanilla, I think of 

207
00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,360
sweet applications. 
Are there savory applications 

208
00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:09,840
there that? 
I like your question. 

209
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:13,160
I'm smiling because you, you 
don't know what I want to say, 

210
00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:14,160
that's why. 
Go ahead. 

211
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:16,160
I'm curious what were the? 
There's no application 

212
00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:17,600
whatsoever. 
What? 

213
00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:20,600
No, that exactly. 
That's what Elizabeth Faulkner 

214
00:12:21,520 --> 00:12:26,360
and Michael Gilota and and 
Shannon T Bay and myself, you 

215
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:30,320
know, we're very shocked about 
it because when we landed, 

216
00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,840
Elizabeth was expecting that in 
fact, we will smell everything 

217
00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:36,960
vanilla. 
They will be spa with smell of 

218
00:12:36,960 --> 00:12:39,280
vanilla. 
They, you know, or like you walk

219
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:41,760
the street in Paris, you have 
like the smell of the 

220
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,440
boulangerie and the croissant. 
So she was expecting all of 

221
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,160
this. 
There's none of that. 

222
00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:52,080
And so then we traveled to the 
little triangle. 

223
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:56,000
It's called the triangle at the 
gold triangle of, of Vanilla 

224
00:12:56,120 --> 00:13:00,240
northeast part of the island. 
We met with the farmers. 

225
00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,240
We we have conversation with 
them and Elizabeth asked So what

226
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,840
do you do with vanilla? 
And he looked at us if we had 

227
00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:12,480
like 3 heads and he said selling
nothing exactly. 

228
00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,760
It's money. 
He said it's money. 

229
00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:18,680
So 99% of the production is 
exported. 

230
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:21,200
And they absolutely do not use 
it. 

231
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,080
It's not part of their culture, 
you know, and it's not. 

232
00:13:24,080 --> 00:13:27,840
Part of their culture. 
Not at all, no, because it is a 

233
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:31,760
lot of those in, let's say 
product has been brought to the 

234
00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:36,080
island during the time of, you 
know, being a colony. 

235
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:41,000
And, you know, unfortunately a 
lot of people have been used for

236
00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,960
their, you know, the fact it was
a cheap workforce and yeah, so 

237
00:13:46,120 --> 00:13:51,600
everything is sported. 
So you, you start seeing some of

238
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:56,200
the new chefs and the new 
culinary faces of, in the 

239
00:13:56,200 --> 00:14:00,800
capital that are integrating 
those great ingredients, you 

240
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:03,560
know, in their cooking. 
So you start seeing, you know, 

241
00:14:03,560 --> 00:14:07,920
vanilla in sauces or, you know, 
or in ragu or, you know, that 

242
00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:09,840
type of things. 
And of course in desserts. 

243
00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:14,440
So, and as well the pink 
peppercorn and you know, and and

244
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:17,240
the the white black pepper that 
you see. 

245
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:19,840
I was not expecting that. 
I was expecting that. 

246
00:14:19,840 --> 00:14:20,920
That's why I was smiling. 
So I. 

247
00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:23,600
Was thinking about this while I 
was when we were getting ready 

248
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,960
to do the podcast. 
I was thinking like what could I

249
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:27,840
put with vanilla is like in my 
mind. 

250
00:14:28,480 --> 00:14:30,440
I don't know why my mind 
immediately went to risotto. 

251
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:32,880
It's like a savory application 
with vanilla. 

252
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,320
I think in risotto would be 
nice. 

253
00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,800
I have a friend of mine who he's
studied as a chef and now he 

254
00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:45,280
works in the flavor industry and
he, you know, he likes to cook. 

255
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,000
And every time I come to his 
home, he is, you know, he has 

256
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:49,920
always like new recipes and so 
on. 

257
00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,600
And he is, he puts always, he 
puts always like vanilla, you 

258
00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,760
know, in, in cunary preparations
or so. 

259
00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,040
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, it's not that uncommon, 

260
00:15:00,040 --> 00:15:03,200
I think, but it isn't. 
It isn't very common. 

261
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,320
Kitchens are brutal right now. 
Everyone knows it, fewer people 

262
00:15:06,320 --> 00:15:09,320
on the line, margins tighter 
than ever, and somehow the 

263
00:15:09,320 --> 00:15:12,160
expectations keep going up. 
There's just no room to miss 

264
00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,160
anymore. 
I was talking to a chef recently

265
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:16,840
who said the biggest stress 
wasn't the volume, it was the 

266
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,720
mental load. 
Babysitting, food, timing, 

267
00:15:19,720 --> 00:15:22,960
everything perfectly, trying to 
be everywhere at once. 

268
00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:25,640
And that's where equipment 
matters more than people want to

269
00:15:25,640 --> 00:15:26,840
admit. 
Rationals. 

270
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,640
Technology comes up a lot in 
those conversations. 

271
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:33,160
The Icon B Pro, the Ivario Pro 
overnight roast that don't need 

272
00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,120
to be checked, custom programs 
for all your recipes, 

273
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,800
Consistency without hovering 
completely automated cleaning, 

274
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:42,920
monitoring everything from your 
phone, The list goes on. 

275
00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:45,120
And what really buys you the 
headspace? 

276
00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,240
Less standing over pans and more
time to leave the kitchen 

277
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:50,400
instead of constantly putting 
out tiny fires. 

278
00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,840
When you're down to cook, When 
the prep list is rough, when the

279
00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:55,960
production ramps up. 
Think rational. 

280
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,560
Let's talk about your process 
for writing, if you don't mind. 

281
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,840
As I was flipping through the 
book and I'm reading a couple of

282
00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:05,080
pages, I, there's something that
I picked up not just in this 

283
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:07,520
book, but also in the previous 
one, but more because I've read 

284
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:10,040
this more recently. 
And something that I picked up 

285
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:15,880
is that when you write, it's 
very good. 

286
00:16:16,680 --> 00:16:18,880
It's very good. 
And, and because I write also, 

287
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,880
if you read anything that I 
write, it sounds like me. 

288
00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:26,240
It sounds like how I talk. 
Also, this is very interesting 

289
00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:27,200
because I'm reading this is 
like. 

290
00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:29,160
It's almost like you go into a 
different character. 

291
00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:34,400
Yeah, and, and, and obviously 
when I write and especially 

292
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:38,160
that, you know, English is not 
my mother language. 

293
00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:42,960
So I, you know, I, I have to, I 
spend more time, you know, I, I 

294
00:16:42,960 --> 00:16:46,840
focus, you know, I, I try to 
understand, you know, how I want

295
00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:52,280
to bring, you know, certain 
emotions or, and, and, and 

296
00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:59,400
there's, there is like a mix of 
different source of information 

297
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:06,280
when I write because I, I, I use
usually, I would say basically, 

298
00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,760
probably especially for those 
non fiction book, I, I maybe 

299
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:16,079
like 3 different things. 
The first one is that there's a 

300
00:17:16,079 --> 00:17:19,880
lot of conversation that I had 
with the farmers, with the 

301
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:22,400
entrepreneurs, with the 
beekeepers and so on. 

302
00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:27,400
So I went to the island with my 
recorders and two mics, and I 

303
00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,120
conducted interviews with those 
individuals. 

304
00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:34,000
So I have that as a big part of 
the content. 

305
00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:39,960
Then I have, you know, my phone 
when I take a lot of pictures, 

306
00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:42,200
all those pictures, in fact, 
I've been that you see in the 

307
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,280
book. 
I've been taken with my iPhone. 

308
00:17:45,360 --> 00:17:48,000
Yeah. 
And but that that's important 

309
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:53,920
for me because when I write, I 
usually put some mood board. 

310
00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:58,000
So let's say I'm going to stop 
writing like the chapter on 

311
00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,240
rice. 
So I'm going to have like one 

312
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,680
page when I have like all the 
pictures like related to rice, 

313
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,720
the rice fields, you know, and 
the people that are working 

314
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:09,520
feels and you know, and so on. 
Or some of the dishes that I 

315
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,600
had. 
And then the other one is that I

316
00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,240
have the, the classic, the old 
fashioned way where I have my 

317
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,760
notebook and in fact in my 
pencil. 

318
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:25,160
And this is where I capture my, 
you know, what I feel like the 

319
00:18:25,160 --> 00:18:29,720
emotion aspect. 
You know, when I, I, maybe I am 

320
00:18:29,720 --> 00:18:33,000
on the, the lake, you know, 
where you have all the sturgeons

321
00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,560
and I, I go on the boat and it's
5:00 in the morning, it's before

322
00:18:37,720 --> 00:18:40,640
sunrise. 
And you have all the sound of 

323
00:18:40,640 --> 00:18:42,960
the nature. 
You have that feeling, you know,

324
00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,840
of the sun rising on that lake. 
And you discovered like all the 

325
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:50,800
structure of the Nets, you know,
with the, with the sturgeons, 

326
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,560
all of that. 
It's, you know, I have to write.

327
00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:57,080
I have to write the way how I 
feel, you know, because it's 

328
00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:02,280
very difficult if you, you know,
when you go back home and then 

329
00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:09,040
you are be on your desk and then
you try to, you know, kind of 

330
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,440
relive, you know, those moments.
If you don't have it, like from 

331
00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:17,160
the moment you expense them and 
you know, it's very difficult 

332
00:19:17,160 --> 00:19:21,480
to, to be really truthful to, 
you know, the way you felt. 

333
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:25,760
So I, I have those three things 
and that's how I, you know, I, I

334
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,120
write. 
So a lot of chefs want to write 

335
00:19:29,120 --> 00:19:31,240
their first cookbook. 
A lot of people want to write 

336
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,200
their first cookbook. 
And I think that's it's 

337
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:36,920
aspirational for a lot of chefs.
I feel like having your own 

338
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:39,600
cookbook cements your your 
legacy to a certain extent. 

339
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,080
One of the things that I know, 
and I've spoken to a lot of 

340
00:19:42,280 --> 00:19:45,760
chefs on the podcast who have 
cookbooks and it seems to be 

341
00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:49,480
about 5050, if not, it's leaning
a little bit more towards self 

342
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,880
or independent publishing versus
going the traditional publishing

343
00:19:52,880 --> 00:19:56,520
route. 
This is. 

344
00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:58,720
Traditional. 
Traditional publishing both 

345
00:19:58,720 --> 00:19:59,840
books. 
Yeah, both books. 

346
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:08,440
So what is what is the process 
from going from idea to to, you 

347
00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:09,840
know, for the for the audience 
that's listening. 

348
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,440
We wanted to coach them through,
hey, you want to write your 

349
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,040
first cookbook? 
Here's some of the steps to get 

350
00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:16,120
a book deal. 
What does that look like? 

351
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:23,400
So first of all, you need three 
years of your life, you know, 

352
00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,640
especially for cookbooks, 
because you know, if you have, 

353
00:20:27,240 --> 00:20:30,720
you have the content, you have 
the recipes that needs to be 

354
00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:36,680
tested, you know, by usually a 
third party, all the recipe has 

355
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:38,880
to be written, you know, the 
same way. 

356
00:20:39,840 --> 00:20:46,480
And then you have, you know, as 
well the, all the, the pictures,

357
00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:49,000
you know, for that are very 
important new cookbooks. 

358
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:51,960
So I, I'm not like an experts in
the cookbooks. 

359
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:57,320
But when I tell you if, if you 
want to go the routes of, you 

360
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,440
know, the traditional 
publishing, you cannot unless 

361
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,800
you have someone very famous. 
And then you are going to have 

362
00:21:02,800 --> 00:21:07,400
like a publisher contacting you 
and say, Hey, Andre, you know, 

363
00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:11,240
we love what you do and so on. 
And we would love to have, you 

364
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,800
know, you writing cookbooks. 
So that's one thing. 

365
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:21,920
But otherwise you cannot contact
like a publisher directly 

366
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:27,080
because they received so many 
proposals that in fact the you 

367
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:30,280
have to go through an agent. 
So that's the the way to go. 

368
00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:33,520
And step one is find. 
So step one, yeah, step one is 

369
00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:36,040
to find a book agent and and 
then. 

370
00:21:36,280 --> 00:21:38,440
They're happy for you at that 
point. 

371
00:21:38,960 --> 00:21:41,920
First you have to pitch a lot of
book agents. 

372
00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:47,640
So I have one based in the 
Savannah for me, and I think 

373
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:50,920
that's for the that's the same 
one that I have for the both 

374
00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:55,920
books. 
And I think I pitched 14 agent 

375
00:21:56,560 --> 00:21:58,920
because of course I'm you know, 
I'm no one, nobody. 

376
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:02,160
I don't have a show on TV so. 
You you have a very successful 

377
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:04,400
Chef podcast. 
Yeah, but it's, you know, it's 

378
00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:08,400
it's not enough. 
So so the idea is that so I 

379
00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,000
pitched 14 two where interested 
in their concept. 

380
00:22:13,120 --> 00:22:15,760
One wanted to represent me the 
way it was. 

381
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,560
The second one in fact 
challenged me, which I and I 

382
00:22:19,560 --> 00:22:22,840
went with her because I said the
first time I I write a book and,

383
00:22:22,840 --> 00:22:25,680
you know, I probably need to 
improve, you know, in the in the

384
00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:27,680
process and so on and I'm going 
to learn something. 

385
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,320
So so yeah. 
So then after that, that agent, 

386
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:35,520
when the agent decides to, you 
know, we present to you. 

387
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,200
So first she or he is going to 
help you make the book better. 

388
00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:45,480
And then because it's 
nonfiction, usually what they do

389
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:49,800
is that you have to build with 
them like a book proposal where 

390
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,720
you need to have a few chapters 
already put together. 

391
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:57,160
And then it's all about, you 
know, what's the concept? 

392
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,000
You know, what is the target 
audience? 

393
00:23:00,120 --> 00:23:03,320
Obviously for Coolbook it's you 
know, with foodies and and chefs

394
00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:09,480
and then when that is done and 
finalized with the agent, they 

395
00:23:09,480 --> 00:23:12,400
will help you finalize it. 
Then they take it and pitch it 

396
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,800
to, you know, several mini 
publishers. 

397
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:18,280
Did you use the same publisher 
for both? 

398
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,040
Books No. 
Different publisher. 2 different

399
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,680
publishers. 
Quick question because you have 

400
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,040
recipes in here too. 
Even though it's not a cookbook,

401
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,800
there are recipes in here. 
It's about 20. 

402
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,800
And for those, did you have to 
have a recipe tester that you 

403
00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:31,440
had to send? 
Everything to no, no, I didn't, 

404
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:35,120
I didn't do that. 
What I did yeah, is in fact, 

405
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:41,120
first I'm another chef. 
So I, I reach out to so the chef

406
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,240
that we're with me. 
So there's it is there's 

407
00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:47,160
Elizabeth Faulkner recipe on 
vanilla, Michael Gilota, Shannon

408
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:53,160
T base cocktail. 
And then I, I ask chefs from 

409
00:23:53,160 --> 00:23:56,320
Madagascar to give me your 
recipes and as well chef from 

410
00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:59,120
France, because, you know, 
there's still that connection 

411
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:00,880
that exists between Madagascar 
and France. 

412
00:24:01,320 --> 00:24:05,880
So there's a lot of French chefs
that are using the ingredients 

413
00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:07,120
from the island. 
Wow. 

414
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,280
What, where is what is the, the 
history, the historical 

415
00:24:10,280 --> 00:24:12,160
connection between Madagascar 
and France? 

416
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,800
And, and now that you said that 
and I, I don't know why I never 

417
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:16,840
put two and two together, but 
yeah, you're talking about the 

418
00:24:16,840 --> 00:24:18,880
ingredients. 
And these ingredients are very 

419
00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:22,960
prevalent in in French cooking. 
So it it was, it was a French 

420
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:26,880
colony until 1960, the way they 
became independent. 

421
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,480
So it was during, I don't know 
if you know anything about the 

422
00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:34,560
French history, but it's general
the goal who is was, you know, 

423
00:24:35,280 --> 00:24:38,680
the president at the time. 
There was a lot of different 

424
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:43,120
colonies, you know, in connected
to France and a lot of them 

425
00:24:43,120 --> 00:24:47,080
wanted to become independent. 
So in 1960s they said OK, you 

426
00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,440
are, you're independent and 
France left. 

427
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:51,240
How long did it take you to 
write this? 

428
00:24:51,760 --> 00:24:54,320
22 months. 
How much time? 

429
00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:56,680
Like the first. 
One What was the shortest amount

430
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,480
of time and what was the longest
amount of time you spent on it 

431
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,200
in a day? 
Oh, so that's, that's a very 

432
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,720
good question. 
In fact, because everyone has a 

433
00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:12,920
process. 
I, I read a lot of advice from a

434
00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:17,160
lot of coaches and all the 
authors that said you have to 

435
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:18,960
write everyday. 
I cannot. 

436
00:25:19,640 --> 00:25:22,440
So I'm, I'm in charge of 
marketing for, for a global 

437
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,360
company manufacturing, you know,
food ingredients. 

438
00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:29,400
And for me, it's very difficult 
at the end of the day to switch 

439
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:32,440
to creative writing after my 
whole day, you know, work or 

440
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,640
travelling and so on. 
So I have learned from the first

441
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:41,200
book that's the best process for
me is what I called 3. 

442
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:47,920
It's a 3 six process, which is I
take 3 days like a usually a 

443
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,120
long weekend and then I will 
write 6 hours. 

444
00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,760
You know, I, I'm an early bird. 
So I will start at 5:00 AM and 

445
00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,360
then around 11, I will finish 
writing. 

446
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,680
I will explore because I'm a 
foodie. 

447
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,840
So I will explore wherever I am.
I rent usually in Airbnb and 

448
00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:11,120
then I go to a brewery, to a 
restaurant, to a coffee shop and

449
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:12,920
so on. 
I'll do a little bit of hiking, 

450
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,960
go back to the, to the Airbnb 
and I, I revise, you know, 

451
00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,240
whatever I've written. 
And I do that three days, you 

452
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,520
know, in a row and you know, on 
a regular basis. 

453
00:26:22,520 --> 00:26:25,800
And that's the best way. 
That's why it took me 22 months 

454
00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,920
to write the manuscript. 
And we have very different 

455
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,520
processes. 
I'm, I, I have to create a 

456
00:26:31,520 --> 00:26:32,840
little bit of pressure for 
myself. 

457
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,000
I, I think it's all the years of
being a chef. 

458
00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,640
I actually perform better when 
there's a, and I hate to say 

459
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,400
that I do perform better when 
there's stress. 

460
00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:44,160
So I sometimes have to introduce
fake stress. 

461
00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:48,200
So I will announce things even 
though I haven't gotten to, to 

462
00:26:48,200 --> 00:26:49,920
work on it. 
I'll tell people that like 

463
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:50,840
they'll say, how soon do you 
need? 

464
00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:53,520
I was like, they give me a date 
and I'll I'll, I'll, I'll hit 

465
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:56,680
the deadline knowing full well 
that I haven't even sure. 

466
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,960
And, and I think I was talking 
to her yesterday when I was 

467
00:26:59,960 --> 00:27:03,760
telling you for the next one. 
I'm writing a book right now and

468
00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,560
I've only written 1 chapter. 
So for people that don't know 

469
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:09,040
and. 
When is the deadline? 

470
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,560
It's a it's a very, very soon, 
right? 

471
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:17,000
I've only written 1 chapter of 
the 10 and I have a little bit 

472
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,080
over a week to have it done. 
Oh, good luck. 

473
00:27:19,280 --> 00:27:22,600
Yeah, but that's what you don't 
know about me is is I will 

474
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:25,240
figure it out because I'm the 
type of person that I'll wait 

475
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:26,440
till the last minute. 
Oh boy. 

476
00:27:26,840 --> 00:27:30,040
And then I will drink a lot of 
caffeine and then I will get it 

477
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:31,280
done. 
And then with no sleep. 

478
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:34,320
With no sleep, right, I just, I 
just procrastinate. 

479
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:38,160
But that's my writing process. 
But I also, I probably said this

480
00:27:38,160 --> 00:27:41,560
before on the podcast, I, I 
talk, so I turn on the recorder 

481
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:45,920
and then I talk and then the 
words show up on the computer. 

482
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:47,680
So that's a little bit easier 
and then it's easier for me to. 

483
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:51,240
And for me, it's like I typed 
everything and I type whatever. 

484
00:27:51,440 --> 00:27:54,000
It doesn't matter the quality or
whatever. 

485
00:27:54,920 --> 00:28:00,200
And I've learned with the first 
book that in fact, you know why 

486
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:04,160
that's the for me, like the, the
white page, you know, the crisis

487
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:06,480
of the white, all the tension of
the white page and so on. 

488
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:09,920
It's like a cover myth. 
Because what I do is I, I really

489
00:28:09,920 --> 00:28:13,080
structure, you know, I know the 
structure of the book. 

490
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:16,560
I know the chapter. 
I know, you know, the major, 

491
00:28:16,560 --> 00:28:20,560
let's say ideas in the chapter 
and then whatever, it's like, 

492
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:22,680
you know, 5:00 in the morning 
and I start writing. 

493
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:26,000
I'm going to start whoever. 
So we could, I can start in like

494
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:29,240
the middle of the chapter #5 for
instance. 

495
00:28:29,240 --> 00:28:32,400
And then the next day I will do 
the introduction or, you know, 

496
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,560
and I, I will build like my 
puzzle, you know, like this. 

497
00:28:36,080 --> 00:28:39,560
Yeah, it's it's so funny writing
process is so different for for 

498
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:41,520
everybody. 
And when we were talking about 

499
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,800
earlier, how when I read yours, 
I say, wow, this tone is very 

500
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:47,520
different from the conversations
that we have in real life. 

501
00:28:47,800 --> 00:28:49,560
Yeah, right. 
We're mine. 

502
00:28:49,560 --> 00:28:51,600
You can see why I sound because 
I'm. 

503
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:53,200
I'm talking. 
Sure, right. 

504
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So a lot of my books sound like 

505
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:56,800
I'm having a conversation 
because I am. 

506
00:28:57,040 --> 00:28:58,560
I'm having a conversation with 
the computer. 

507
00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:03,400
That's reported it and I, I love
maybe it comes as well from we 

508
00:29:03,400 --> 00:29:06,160
have a very different, you know,
obviously background and 

509
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,640
education and so on. 
So coming from France, there's a

510
00:29:09,640 --> 00:29:14,520
lot of, you know, French classes
with classic literature and so 

511
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:17,680
on. 
So I, I love like setting a 

512
00:29:18,160 --> 00:29:22,120
stage, you know, and talking 
about like the surrounding the 

513
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:24,120
environments. 
I think it's important as well 

514
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,280
for a book like this where I 
know that most of the people who

515
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,800
are going to read it, we never 
had the chance to come to go do 

516
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:37,080
the island and the landscapes 
are so diverse and and wonderful

517
00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,600
is that I want to make sure that
the people come with me on the 

518
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,560
island while writing the book. 
So they need to experience, you 

519
00:29:43,560 --> 00:29:45,520
know those. 
I, I forget that you're from 

520
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,440
France because you're, you have 
a very thick New Jersey accent. 

521
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:53,120
No, go on. 
I forget that I have a question 

522
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,720
of you. 
Do you want me to say coffee? 

523
00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,840
I can talk about the Turnpike, 
you know, and. 

524
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:01,720
All of that. 
Let me ask you a question. 

525
00:30:01,720 --> 00:30:04,200
Sopranos, my favorite show. 
Yeah, I know. 

526
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:07,240
Honestly, The Sopranos is my 
favorite show of all time. 

527
00:30:07,600 --> 00:30:09,800
I remember some of our 
conversations all time. 

528
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,760
That's that's my favorite show. 
You know how to cook. 

529
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,320
That's not the problem. 
The problem is getting your team

530
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:17,280
to do what you want when you 
want it. 

531
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000
That's leadership. 
My book, Culinary Leadership 

532
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,360
Fundamentals, breaks down 
exactly how to run a kitchen 

533
00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:24,200
without losing your mind. 
Stop yelling. 

534
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,760
Start leading. 
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. 

535
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,560
So what was your first 
experience and what brought you 

536
00:30:29,880 --> 00:30:31,560
to the United States for your 
first experience? 

537
00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,680
Yeah. 
In fact, it's, it's funny story.

538
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:42,120
It's, I think it was back in 
1998 and I did an internship in 

539
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:45,600
Wisconsin, Waukesha between 
Milwaukee and and Madison. 

540
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:52,080
That was a fantastic experience.
But you know, the, the story 

541
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,640
that took place that was that 
really amazing is that I was 

542
00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,960
supposed at the end of my 
studies to be drafted for 

543
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,040
military service in France 
because it was still mandatory 

544
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,680
at that time. 
It's not the case anymore. 

545
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,840
Even I think now the President 
Macron wants to bring it back. 

546
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:17,440
And so I, I pushed that military
service at the end of my studies

547
00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,080
that you can, you know, you 
could do that. 

548
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:25,600
And So what happened is that 
you, you have to do the health 

549
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,760
check and everything, you know, 
before getting drafted. 

550
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:34,880
So I had this opportunity at the
same time to come to United 

551
00:31:34,880 --> 00:31:41,080
States and the person who was in
charge and giving me that 

552
00:31:41,080 --> 00:31:43,600
opportunity said, you know, this
is now that you have the 

553
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,200
opportunity because it's in the 
budget, you know, for that 

554
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:49,320
company to make it happen next 
year. 

555
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:51,280
It would probably not going to 
be the case. 

556
00:31:51,440 --> 00:31:54,200
And I'm like, yeah, but I'm 
probably going to have to go to 

557
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:57,880
military service. 
I said OK, man, you know, good 

558
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,520
luck. 
So I went to the health check 

559
00:32:02,360 --> 00:32:07,080
and I still remember there's a 
lot of element in that story. 

560
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:08,680
You asked for it, but it's a 
long 1. 

561
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:16,600
So I, I drove to my brother and 
sister-in-law for a weekend and 

562
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:22,200
since important story and I, my 
sister-in-law decided to to say,

563
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:28,120
OK, take the car to get to, you 
know the like the the place 

564
00:32:28,120 --> 00:32:29,840
where you know where they do the
hell check. 

565
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,120
It's easy. 
It's very close by and so I went

566
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:36,000
there. 
There's a long line. 

567
00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,120
We are all hoping that we will 
not get drafted. 

568
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:42,520
I had my folder. 
I had some issue with my eyes. 

569
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,880
So I said maybe it's, you know, 
strong enough for for me to 

570
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:51,280
avoid it. 
And then there's, I still 

571
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:55,160
remember there was a huge 
staircase of this old house. 

572
00:32:55,480 --> 00:33:00,160
And there's one guy on top of 
the staircase is an official. 

573
00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:02,960
He is, you know, with his 
uniform. 

574
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:06,200
And he is like, really literally
like screaming down the 

575
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:08,440
staircase. 
There's all the kids, you know, 

576
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:10,640
me and all the others. 
Maybe we have 200. 

577
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,480
And he said, is anyone, you 
know, have a car here? 

578
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:17,240
Does anyone have a car? 
This is very important. 

579
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:20,000
And I'm not I'm not going to say
anything. 

580
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,280
I'm not going to stand up. 
And, you know, and then he asked

581
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,040
again, he said this is really 
important. 

582
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,240
And like, OK, I raised my hand 
and said I have a car. 

583
00:33:29,240 --> 00:33:33,520
So I'm the only one among all 
those 200 kids and said, OK, see

584
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,200
me at the end. 
So I go through the whole steps 

585
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:39,720
of, you know, getting the the 
health check, you know, the 

586
00:33:39,840 --> 00:33:42,040
X-ray for the lungs, you know, 
and blah, blah, blah. 

587
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:48,080
And I arrive at the eyes exam 
and the doctor that is there 

588
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,320
said, hey, man, I'm sorry, but 
it's not enough. 

589
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,440
You know what you have, you will
have to get your military 

590
00:33:54,440 --> 00:33:56,520
service. 
And I'm not sure because that's 

591
00:33:56,520 --> 00:34:00,600
my opportunity to go to the US 
that I can see already, you 

592
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:04,240
know, going away. 
And then that guy that, you 

593
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:07,120
know, asked about the car 
entered the room and he said, 

594
00:34:07,160 --> 00:34:10,520
OK, you know what's going on? 
What's the situation with this 

595
00:34:10,520 --> 00:34:12,840
guy? 
So the other one explained. 

596
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,800
He said, OK, come with me. 
So I exit that room. 

597
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:19,760
Now we are in the hallway. 
There's doors, you know, on both

598
00:34:19,760 --> 00:34:21,880
side. 
And it says doctor, doctor, you 

599
00:34:21,880 --> 00:34:23,320
know, I just, you know, on each 
door. 

600
00:34:23,840 --> 00:34:27,199
So I'm like, oh shit, that's the
guy who is going to probably 

601
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:32,520
decide of my fate. 
So sitting in this in his office

602
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,199
and say, OK, explain to me 
what's going on. 

603
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,080
And you know, I had like few 
seconds like to think about it. 

604
00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:41,960
And I'm like, OK, he's the 
doctor. 

605
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:46,480
He has been, you know, he has 
done, you know, college and, you

606
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:49,360
know, medical studies and so on.
So maybe you will understand. 

607
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:52,960
So I decided to tell the truth 
and I said, OK, I have an 

608
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:57,400
opportunity. 
I can go to the US for a year. 

609
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,840
It's going to change competing 
my life, my entire career. 

610
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:05,960
This is now or never. 
So if I do not do the military 

611
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:07,760
service, then I can go to the 
US. 

612
00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:13,240
And I'm not joking. 
The the doctor look at me and he

613
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:19,640
said, OK, I have to catch a 
train to see my fiance, you 

614
00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:23,760
know, in Grenald and he was 
catching a train when in fact in

615
00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:27,760
the town where my brother lives.
And he said my train is, I of 

616
00:35:27,760 --> 00:35:30,800
course don't remember the time, 
but it's a, you know, it is in 

617
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:35,000
whatever are you going to be 
able to drive me and I can catch

618
00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,040
my train. 
I'm like, I can promise you 

619
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:38,520
you're going to catch your 
train. 

620
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:41,000
And the guy said OK, what a 
good. 

621
00:35:42,560 --> 00:35:43,760
Story. 
That's a good story. 

622
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:45,160
It's a long 1 though. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

623
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,080
But that's how you then it and 
that guy, unfortunately, you 

624
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:51,040
know the why. 
The big, the maybe the biggest 

625
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:56,760
drug rights that I have is that 
I never ask his name and I never

626
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,280
have the chance to say thank 
you. 

627
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:00,720
He's listening. 
Yeah, he'll, he'll know. 

628
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:02,000
Of course he's listening to 
shit. 

629
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,440
He's saying of course, why not? 
Why He's he's French. 

630
00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:07,640
I wanna change my life. 
I wanna. 

631
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,920
Ask you about about your 
podcast. 

632
00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:12,800
Yes. 
So flavors are known for people 

633
00:36:12,800 --> 00:36:13,880
that don't know. 
And by the way, I think I've 

634
00:36:13,880 --> 00:36:17,120
been a guest four times. 
Oh yeah, yeah, I think so. 

635
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,520
Yeah, I think 3 or 4I. 
Remember, yeah, I mean, we did 

636
00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,920
the Group 1. 
Yeah, you did the leadership one

637
00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,600
the. 
Leadership one. 

638
00:36:22,600 --> 00:36:23,960
Well, anyway. 
People, I think there was a, 

639
00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,840
there was a, there was A and you
and and you were first on your 

640
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:29,160
own as a. 
Guest yeah, yeah. 

641
00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:31,520
So anyway. 
I seem to remember people should

642
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:32,960
listen to meeting you for the 
first time. 

643
00:36:32,960 --> 00:36:34,800
Flavors and I was I was very. 
Impressed. 

644
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,520
I'll tell you it's it's 
interesting because I've gone 

645
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:37,800
back and listened to it. 
Yeah. 

646
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:41,280
And I was still a chef. 
And so if you listen to that 

647
00:36:41,280 --> 00:36:45,040
versus now you say, who's that 
guy? 

648
00:36:45,360 --> 00:36:49,400
He sounds like an asshole. 
Why no, no, just we had a 

649
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:50,840
fantastic. 
Conversation it was, but I was 

650
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:52,520
just to. 
Remember the first conversation?

651
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:56,880
You and I and you were so nice. 
Yeah, I, I still remember. 

652
00:36:56,920 --> 00:37:00,000
No, you reached out to me 
because I think we had, I had 

653
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:04,920
like a few, I had like maybe 
episodes on the podcast of 10. 

654
00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:09,000
And then suddenly on my 
Instagram, your name pop up and 

655
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:11,040
you said, oh, by the way, I love
your podcast. 

656
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,520
And I said, oh, I'm going to 
come to Austin. 

657
00:37:13,520 --> 00:37:16,080
So I said, hey, come and see me.
And we had a fantastic 

658
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,320
conversation. 
Yeah, one of the things that. 

659
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:21,680
Do you know that he was eight 
years ago? 

660
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:23,800
Wow. 
Yeah, well, when I listen to 

661
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,160
that podcast now, if I go back 
and listen to that, I'm still a 

662
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,120
chef. 
And so the way that I speak, the

663
00:37:28,120 --> 00:37:30,200
intensity that I have is much 
different than the way I speak 

664
00:37:30,200 --> 00:37:31,720
now. 
Because when I listen to it, I'm

665
00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:34,360
like, wow, who's that person? 
It's just, it's a it's a 

666
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,800
different version of me because 
I was still in it. 

667
00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:40,160
And it's interesting for me to 
listen to old episodes like 

668
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:41,800
that. 
But anyway, so people should go 

669
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,520
back and listen to flavors 
alone, listen to my episodes on 

670
00:37:44,520 --> 00:37:47,240
there. 
But one of the things that I 

671
00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:51,440
think you have a very unique 
perspective because you are not 

672
00:37:51,440 --> 00:37:55,600
a chef, but you talk to like, 
like in my life, I talk to chefs

673
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,560
all day, some of the best. 
So do you. 

674
00:38:00,000 --> 00:38:04,200
And you've been able to develop 
a very unique perspective of 

675
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:06,440
what chefs, what makes chefs 
tick. 

676
00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,280
And one of the interesting 
things about your podcast is 

677
00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:16,000
it's very philosophy driven. 
It is inspiration driven, it's 

678
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,600
technique driven. 
And so you get into the minutiae

679
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:24,760
of the cooking and the flavors 
and the creative process and all

680
00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:26,920
those things when you think 
about that, because you've had 

681
00:38:26,920 --> 00:38:28,560
the opportunity to speak to so 
many chefs. 

682
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:33,440
Mm hmm yeah I have 205 or 6 
episodes now. 

683
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:35,360
Wow, cuz I do every other week. 
Yeah. 

684
00:38:35,360 --> 00:38:39,760
So, so 205 episodes and let's 
assume that's over 150 chefs 

685
00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:41,560
because I'm sure you've had a 
couple of on like myself. 

686
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,520
Multiple times, yeah, yeah. 
What is the one thing that you 

687
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:50,080
notice that great chefs have in 
common? 

688
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,480
Is there something that you 
picked up that say, hey, I 

689
00:38:52,480 --> 00:38:55,400
noticed that a lot of the greats
seem to do this Or what are what

690
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,720
are some of the commonalities 
that you see across the board? 

691
00:38:58,040 --> 00:38:59,240
Yeah. 
Yeah, absolutely. 

692
00:38:59,240 --> 00:39:03,440
So. 
And I think that's the first 

693
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:08,920
point you had the one mentioning
to me, it was the first time we 

694
00:39:08,920 --> 00:39:12,920
met and that was something that 
came back in everything you are 

695
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:19,640
saying, it was about discipline.
So I think that's what I've seen

696
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:21,880
from all the great chefs that I 
talk to. 

697
00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:27,400
It's all about owning and 
developing your craft and having

698
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:29,840
the discipline, you know, of 
doing it. 

699
00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:34,080
And I think this is very 
important, especially since the 

700
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:38,160
after COVID time where in fact, 
I've heard a lot of the chefs 

701
00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:44,240
finding that it was sometime 
challenging with a newer 

702
00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:52,840
generation where they felt that,
you know, that focus off owning 

703
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,920
your or developing your skills 
and your craft was not as maybe 

704
00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,080
strong as what it used to be. 
I'm not saying I don't want to 

705
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,440
generalize because of course, of
course there's going to be 

706
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,560
plenty of individuals that is 
still have like that's passion, 

707
00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,560
you know for it, but that was so
that was one big element. 

708
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,400
And and when they when you're 
when you're referencing that, 

709
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:15,880
are the chefs saying that 
there's a distinct before and 

710
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,280
after COVID and they use COVID 
as like the, the, the specific 

711
00:40:19,280 --> 00:40:23,480
point in time reference point? 
Yeah, they have seen a lot of, 

712
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,400
so they have seen a lot of 
people that left that industry, 

713
00:40:26,400 --> 00:40:28,840
you know at that time and never 
came back to it. 

714
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:34,600
But as well, I think this is a 
mixed between the after COVID 

715
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:38,960
and as well like the Gen. 
Z generation, you know as we 

716
00:40:38,960 --> 00:40:42,280
call them or like the younger 
millennials or Gen. 

717
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:46,880
Z. 
So where the feels that it's in 

718
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,960
inheritance of the the culture 
of the cooking shows and the 

719
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,600
competition shows, where in fact
there is a whole generation of 

720
00:40:56,600 --> 00:41:01,840
individuals that look at the 
shows on TV and you know, the 

721
00:41:01,840 --> 00:41:05,760
stardom, you know, from chefs 
and said, oh, OK, that's what I 

722
00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,960
want to be and the ideas. 
And when they and, and you can 

723
00:41:09,960 --> 00:41:12,520
do that, I think, you know, you 
could be in chef on TV. 

724
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,000
And but then a lot of them are 
applying this into the 

725
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,720
day-to-day life of a chef at the
restaurant. 

726
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,240
And it's really different in the
fact that they have to go 

727
00:41:24,240 --> 00:41:27,800
through the different stations 
and learn and craft and, you 

728
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:36,000
know, and they're maybe not 
getting to like the level all as

729
00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:40,080
fast as they would like to and. 
What do you, what do you notice 

730
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:45,040
in, in terms of because you have
your, your finger on the pulse, 

731
00:41:45,040 --> 00:41:48,480
not just when with speaking with
chefs, but also you travel a lot

732
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:50,600
and you eat at a lot of their 
restaurants as well. 

733
00:41:51,680 --> 00:41:56,880
You travel and dine way more 
than I do You, you, you truly 

734
00:41:56,880 --> 00:41:57,400
do. 
And I'm not. 

735
00:41:57,400 --> 00:41:57,840
I'm not. 
Sure. 

736
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,160
I, I, I was, you know, for the 
first book, when I wrote the 

737
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:04,720
first book, I was trying to have
a number and so on. 

738
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:10,080
And, and I think I do between 60
to 80 tasting a year. 

739
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:11,480
Wow. 
So yeah. 

740
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,440
What do you what do you notice? 
Like if you had to, if you had 

741
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,920
to guess, what do you notice 
that seems to be on the horizon 

742
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,720
with with, with trend or with 
cuisine that seems to be really 

743
00:42:22,720 --> 00:42:26,880
emerging and you think it's 
going to probably take hold here

744
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:28,640
strongly across the country 
soon. 

745
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:33,080
Is there anything that you see? 
I don't, I don't know if I, you 

746
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,480
know, in fact, that's something 
interesting for me because 

747
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:42,000
that's a question that usually I
ask a lot of the chefs, 

748
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,400
especially when I have the panel
like, you know, the one you and 

749
00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:47,640
I did with some other chefs in 
Austin. 

750
00:42:48,680 --> 00:42:53,040
And I do about 5 or 6 panel a 
year, panels a year. 

751
00:42:53,080 --> 00:43:02,320
And I always talk about trends 
and it's we as people that works

752
00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,720
in the industry, the food and 
the beverage industry. 

753
00:43:04,720 --> 00:43:10,040
We are looking at you guys at 
Chefs Mixologist that are in 

754
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:15,680
fact for us creating those 
trends because those elements 

755
00:43:15,680 --> 00:43:18,760
are going to be amplified by the
media and then maybe we'll end 

756
00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:21,000
up in food service or in in 
retail later. 

757
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,160
But when I talked to the chef 
and I asked them the question, 

758
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:28,440
they hate that questions. 
They for them, they are not 

759
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,640
really into trends, but what 
they are doing is. 

760
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,840
That they're not, but they are. 
I can tell you that the the 

761
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:36,440
chefs are not, but they are. 
They're acting. 

762
00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,280
They're they're saying they're 
not, but they're acting like 

763
00:43:38,280 --> 00:43:42,600
they are. 
I I think that again, back to 

764
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,000
your question about what do you 
find like the common points of 

765
00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:51,000
the, the chefs that are really 
great chefs, you know, that you 

766
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,000
talk to. 
And I think those ones, they are

767
00:43:54,000 --> 00:44:00,520
more cooking from their roots 
and their culture and then yes, 

768
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,320
it might become a trend after, 
but they are not going into. 

769
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,280
I see what you. 
Say that approach having trend 

770
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:11,000
in mind, but you have other I 
see as well other chefs that 

771
00:44:11,000 --> 00:44:14,320
says, oh, you know, we follow 
this one and this one and this 

772
00:44:14,320 --> 00:44:17,600
one on social media because now 
it's a source of, you know, of 

773
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:21,440
inspiration and so on. 
So they are looking at you know 

774
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:23,680
trends and I'm sure you know 
some of those trends are going 

775
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,960
to influence them. 
But I, I see those two 

776
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:30,840
different. 
I would say path, you know, when

777
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:35,000
I, I talk to the chefs around 
the country and I like the idea 

778
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:41,600
of, you know, having chefs that 
are really expressing their 

779
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,680
background, their roots, you 
know, through their, through 

780
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:47,720
their cooking. 
That could be, I don't like the 

781
00:44:47,720 --> 00:44:52,880
word authentic because it's, you
know, it's authentic to whatever

782
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:57,600
they have experience to someone.
But, but the idea is that they 

783
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:02,520
have they, they, they, if they 
are like the son of an 

784
00:45:02,520 --> 00:45:05,280
immigrant, for instance, or 
second generation and so on, 

785
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:08,840
then there's going to be some 
roots, but as well that are 

786
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:14,040
going to be mixed and connected 
with their own experience of 

787
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:17,840
like growing up, you know, here 
in, you know, in the US. 

788
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:20,880
So I think that's that's the 
element that I'm really 

789
00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:22,880
interested in. 
And you have an interesting job 

790
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,200
and I don't want to get into 
what your day job is, but but 

791
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:29,640
but you have a very interesting 
job where you are immersed in 

792
00:45:29,840 --> 00:45:34,040
flavors still, not just flavors 
unknown with the podcast and not

793
00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:37,520
just with Taste of Madagascar, 
but also in your day job, 

794
00:45:37,520 --> 00:45:42,280
you're, you're heavily involved 
with with flavors and creating, 

795
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:47,600
creating new flavors. 
From your own perspective, where

796
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,840
do you see some new flavors 
emerging that maybe we're not 

797
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:52,560
thinking about that aren't so 
common? 

798
00:45:52,560 --> 00:45:55,480
I mean, maybe obviously some 
chefs out there thinking about 

799
00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:58,000
them, but but you do have your 
finger on the pulse because 

800
00:45:58,000 --> 00:45:59,920
you're dining out, you're 
eating, and you're also in the 

801
00:45:59,920 --> 00:46:04,680
creative world of it. 
What do you see emerging right 

802
00:46:04,680 --> 00:46:06,520
now? 
So if we are talking about 

803
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:11,240
cunery, because trans may vary 
and are different from you know 

804
00:46:11,240 --> 00:46:15,440
if we are talking beverage, if 
we are talking cunery, I mean 

805
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,840
the big things and it's been for
a while, but the big things are 

806
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,960
global influences. 
That's what you know that are 

807
00:46:21,960 --> 00:46:25,880
driving really like what you 
know new things that you see you

808
00:46:25,880 --> 00:46:30,720
know on the market. 
So you are what I think that's 

809
00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:36,320
people that's realize now that 
you cannot talk about Indian 

810
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:39,720
cuisine or you cannot talk about
Mexican cuisine or you cannot 

811
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:44,560
talk about French cuisine and so
on is that this is each country 

812
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:49,080
are very complex. 
There's like so many variation 

813
00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:53,160
linked to the geography and the 
regions you know within. 

814
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,680
So now what I see is, in fact, 
especially the younger 

815
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,000
generation. 
So the Gen. 

816
00:46:59,000 --> 00:47:03,160
Z and the younger millennials 
are really interesting in the 

817
00:47:03,400 --> 00:47:09,920
authentic storytelling and the 
idea of things that are coming 

818
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,640
from the different regions. 
So we are not talking about 

819
00:47:12,640 --> 00:47:15,760
Mexican cuisine, but we are 
talking about Oaxaca, we are 

820
00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:17,960
talking about Puebla, we are 
talking. 

821
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:20,280
So that's what really we see at 
the moment. 

822
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:23,680
Or Western African cuisine that 
are coming or you know. 

823
00:47:24,080 --> 00:47:25,800
And you, by the way, for people 
that don't know, you pointed 

824
00:47:25,800 --> 00:47:27,920
this out to me way before this 
conversation. 

825
00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:31,800
I mean, I'm thinking back maybe 
two years ago where we were 

826
00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,720
having a similar conversation, 
not on a podcast, just in person

827
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:36,840
at dinner, probably where we 
were talking about, I think it 

828
00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:39,240
was it masala Mais. 
They were saying, hey, look at 

829
00:47:39,240 --> 00:47:40,840
me, Masala. 
Mais yeah, you're looking. 

830
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:43,040
The city, yeah, You look at 
these restaurants, you were you 

831
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:45,000
were pointing me in that 
direction to say hey. 

832
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:46,480
And. 
I you should see what they're 

833
00:47:46,480 --> 00:47:48,440
doing. 
And I can, I can, I can tell you

834
00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:52,720
that still Mexico City for me, 
it's probably the Cunari 

835
00:47:52,720 --> 00:47:56,080
destination in the Americas. 
You know, at the moment that I 

836
00:47:56,080 --> 00:47:59,880
will, you know, I, I in fact, 
I'm going to take a group of 40 

837
00:47:59,880 --> 00:48:02,920
of our customers, you know, end 
of April, you know, there 

838
00:48:02,920 --> 00:48:10,240
because this is for me where we 
have the best example of global 

839
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,920
influences on traditional 
ingredients. 

840
00:48:13,920 --> 00:48:18,600
So, you know, on the, the corn, 
you know, on the Chile, on the 

841
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:23,360
mezcal, on the, you know, that 
really ingredients coming from, 

842
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:29,040
from Mexico. 
And do you have so many chefs 

843
00:48:29,040 --> 00:48:34,000
that are bringing, you know, 
their outside viewpoints, you 

844
00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:37,680
know, coming from, you know, a 
different countries being one 

845
00:48:37,680 --> 00:48:42,200
because he comes originally from
India through Africa and married

846
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:44,280
Mexican. 
So. 

847
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,120
So he has all the three 
influences of, you know, the way

848
00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:51,320
he cooks. 
The idea of using Mexican and 

849
00:48:51,320 --> 00:48:57,640
Indian or other Eastern western 
flavors together is real. 

850
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,280
My friend Rishi has a really 
phenomenal restaurant in Chicago

851
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:05,240
where he he he's, he's trained 
through Rick Bayless and that 

852
00:49:05,240 --> 00:49:08,200
system of making really 
exceptional Mexican food, but 

853
00:49:08,240 --> 00:49:10,760
he's now putting his personality
on it. 

854
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,760
Fingerprints on it. 
Yeah, his fingerprints on it. 

855
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:14,720
So you're starting to see that a
lot more. 

856
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:16,680
And it's delicious because 
you're unlocking. 

857
00:49:17,600 --> 00:49:20,640
I mean, all food. 
Is that right? 

858
00:49:20,640 --> 00:49:22,520
It's just, it's just taking 
time. 

859
00:49:23,160 --> 00:49:25,800
It's just taking time now as the
world has become more flat, you 

860
00:49:25,800 --> 00:49:28,160
could see things you know in 
real time develop. 

861
00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:30,040
Don't say the world is flat, 
please. 

862
00:49:30,320 --> 00:49:31,560
You know what I mean? 
I know. 

863
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:35,360
It was so funny. 
I mean that that we're able to 

864
00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:38,240
know what's going on on the 
other side of the world at at 

865
00:49:38,240 --> 00:49:41,480
any moment. 
Yeah, Shit, we're good. 

866
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,440
Here we go. 
There's a big there's a big ice 

867
00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,080
wall in Antarctica too, right. 
So here we go. 

868
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:51,240
We're going to turn into that 
podcast before you know it. 

869
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:56,560
But but all joking aside is you 
you see the ability to now to to

870
00:49:56,560 --> 00:50:00,040
get trained in certain cuisines 
and get really familiar with it.

871
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,640
But then when the time comes for
you to stand on your own 2 feet,

872
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:05,760
then you can start incorporating
all these all. 

873
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:09,600
These I think it's all about 
storytelling and and if the 

874
00:50:09,600 --> 00:50:12,960
especially for the new 
generation, if the the I 

875
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:17,960
understand and the feel that 
authenticity coming from that 

876
00:50:17,960 --> 00:50:21,240
storytelling from the chef, I 
think that's then that's, you 

877
00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,760
know, sometimes. 
The story tastes like shit. 

878
00:50:26,760 --> 00:50:29,800
OK, OK, it's. 
Like, hey, that's a. 

879
00:50:29,800 --> 00:50:31,600
Great story. 
It tastes terrible, but good 

880
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,080
story. 
That's correct. 

881
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,200
From all the chefs that you've 
spoken to, you've spoken to a 

882
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:37,680
lot. 
Is there any right now that you 

883
00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,280
feel maybe because you've spoken
to them or you've also spoken to

884
00:50:41,280 --> 00:50:44,480
them and try their food that 
aren't household names yet, but 

885
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,880
you feel like, OK, this is these
are some to watch? 

886
00:50:50,160 --> 00:50:56,040
So I I really I mean, because I 
know them for a long time and I 

887
00:50:56,040 --> 00:51:06,240
just came from DC and my friend 
Matt Conroy and his wife, 

888
00:51:06,840 --> 00:51:13,880
Isabelle Kos are for me a 
fantastic in fact couple 

889
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,080
cooking. 
She's a best three chef. 

890
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:18,640
She has done, she was at cost me
before in New York. 

891
00:51:19,480 --> 00:51:23,440
He was, I met him when he was at
Virginia after he went to 

892
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:26,720
Oxomoco in Brooklyn. 
Now both of them moved to 

893
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:30,120
Washington, DC and they have 3 
restaurants now. 

894
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:35,960
They have Lutest, they have 
Pasquale, which is Mexican and 

895
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:40,040
then they have a Maison which is
kind of a wine bar, but you know

896
00:51:40,040 --> 00:51:44,080
with, with food as well. 
I think that's they they, they 

897
00:51:44,080 --> 00:51:47,760
do a fantastic job. 
The the foodies is amazing. 

898
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,920
Yeah. 
So I, I, I, I really love those.

899
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,920
In fact, there's another couple 
that I discovered on in Hawaii. 

900
00:51:58,400 --> 00:52:00,440
I have to take you to Hawaii 
once you have to come on. 

901
00:52:00,440 --> 00:52:01,200
Absolutely. 
When I was a. 

902
00:52:01,360 --> 00:52:03,680
Kid, I know, I remember that, 
but you have to go back now. 

903
00:52:04,280 --> 00:52:05,800
So there is a. 
Where'd you go to Hawaii? 

904
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:09,320
Which island? 
I went to, you know, one several

905
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:10,720
times. 
So I went to all the islands. 

906
00:52:10,720 --> 00:52:15,160
My favorite, it's Kauai, but you
know, because I love hiking and 

907
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,120
so on, but it's not a lot of 
restaurant there. 

908
00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,840
If you really want to taste like
restaurant, it's either 

909
00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,760
Honolulu, you know, on Oahu or, 
you know, Maui. 

910
00:52:26,200 --> 00:52:32,760
But the there's a couple and I 
have to remember their names, 

911
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:37,040
but the restaurants MW because 
that's their that's their 

912
00:52:38,360 --> 00:52:41,720
initials. 
And I know I'm not going to 

913
00:52:41,720 --> 00:52:46,480
remember their names now. 
It's UL car. 

914
00:52:46,760 --> 00:52:52,160
Yeah, that's their last name. 
And and the and again, they do a

915
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:55,160
fantastic food. 
Michelle Michelle, she's the 

916
00:52:55,160 --> 00:53:01,680
pastry chef and and he's the 
chef and they both of them are 

917
00:53:01,680 --> 00:53:12,600
fantastic way of, you know, like
putting the lights on like local

918
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:17,640
ingredients and, and creating 
like amazing dishes and amazing 

919
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,840
dessert. 
So that's another place that so 

920
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,280
MW restaurant in Honolulu if 
you're going to Hawaii. 

921
00:53:22,400 --> 00:53:24,120
What, what? 
What is the best meal that 

922
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:29,760
you've had in the last year or 
so in your travels? 

923
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:31,600
I guess I'm good. 
You're going to get in trouble. 

924
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:33,360
That's a tough. 
One, it's a tough one, but is 

925
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:34,720
there one that really stands 
out? 

926
00:53:35,680 --> 00:53:38,200
Now it's very difficult for me 
to answer. 

927
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,000
Do you prefer tasting menus or 
Ala carte? 

928
00:53:42,440 --> 00:53:44,440
Do you want to go into the 
restaurant and yeah, you know I 

929
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:46,360
be in control, or do you want 
the chef to be in control? 

930
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,200
Oh, I, I. 
If the chef wants to be in 

931
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:52,440
control, then I I I. 
I not, not because it's you, but

932
00:53:52,440 --> 00:53:54,840
because that's the style of 
restaurant, meaning the chef's 

933
00:53:54,840 --> 00:53:56,320
in control, meaning this is all 
you're getting. 

934
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:57,600
That's it. 
Or do you prefer like? 

935
00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:02,200
No, this is what I want. 
So I mean, if I have, if I have 

936
00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:06,200
the possibility where the chef 
is, you know, putting together 

937
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:07,960
his selection and so on and do 
that. 

938
00:54:08,280 --> 00:54:12,200
But otherwise, you know, I like 
to look at the menu because I, I

939
00:54:12,200 --> 00:54:16,240
always want to pick the things 
that, you know, intrigue me 

940
00:54:16,240 --> 00:54:19,680
because there's something that 
I, I, I'm not the kind of person

941
00:54:19,680 --> 00:54:23,800
that go back and, and reorder 
the same thing in it happens. 

942
00:54:23,800 --> 00:54:28,880
But I, I'm going always to look 
at, oh, that ingredients I do 

943
00:54:28,880 --> 00:54:32,160
not know or Oh my gosh, he is 
associating the, or she's 

944
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:34,720
associating this and this, I 
never seen this. 

945
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:39,480
I I have to try this or there's 
like, yeah, there's special 

946
00:54:39,480 --> 00:54:42,160
sauce, you know, that I'm 
intrigued. 

947
00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:48,600
But if there is scallops or duck
or foie gras, that would be my 

948
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,320
choice, yeah. 
Do do you prefer your foie gras 

949
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:55,680
seared or Torchol? 
Both, but it depends on the 

950
00:54:55,680 --> 00:54:59,880
occasions and and by the way, 
talking about this and you asked

951
00:54:59,880 --> 00:55:02,720
me one of my great, great 
experience. 

952
00:55:02,720 --> 00:55:04,640
It was not in the US, it was in 
Mexico City. 

953
00:55:04,880 --> 00:55:09,080
It was in January this year. 
It is at a food truck. 

954
00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:14,400
A chef decided, well known chef 
decided not to do a brick and 

955
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,200
mortar, but starts with a, you 
know, a food truck. 

956
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:26,400
And he has on the secret menu 
Taco with guava mole with the 

957
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:29,640
sea at Quagga on top. 
And I can tell you that I've 

958
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,920
been there twice during my week.
That sounds amazing. 

959
00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:38,320
It was amazing. 
Guava mole Guava's such an also 

960
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,400
underrated fragrant. 
It is a trendy 1. 

961
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,080
So you ask me, what's trending? 
Yeah, Guava is. 

962
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:45,200
I didn't know Guava was 
trending. 

963
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:48,280
Yeah, Guava is trending and then
the other one which is trending.

964
00:55:48,280 --> 00:55:49,160
I've seen it in my. 
Shampoo. 

965
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:54,160
You know, pendant. 
Guava's in my shampoo, I think 

966
00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:59,200
with coconuts. 
That's so funny, but the. 

967
00:56:00,240 --> 00:56:03,960
Yeah, so Panden actually I was 
talking about on the on the most

968
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,760
recent episode that actually 
came out today, we're talking 

969
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:09,040
about Panden. 
I I love Panden. 

970
00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:14,080
Also very, very underrated. 
I mean, it's it, it is coming. 

971
00:56:14,080 --> 00:56:17,480
It's, it's becoming, it's not 
yet mainstream, but it's, it's, 

972
00:56:17,480 --> 00:56:18,480
it's really. 
It's next. 

973
00:56:18,480 --> 00:56:20,520
It's about to have its moment, 
Absolutely. 

974
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,640
So going back to the amount of 
chefs that you've spoken to, I'm

975
00:56:25,640 --> 00:56:31,800
just curious without naming any 
names, but maybe finding ideas 

976
00:56:31,800 --> 00:56:35,160
or or seeing patterns. 
I'm sure a lot of the chefs 

977
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:37,720
because when did you start the 
podcast? 

978
00:56:37,760 --> 00:56:42,360
2018 on September. 
So since 2018, you've you've had

979
00:56:42,360 --> 00:56:44,560
a lot of time to speak with 
chefs in process and and not 

980
00:56:44,560 --> 00:56:46,200
just the on air conversations, 
the off. 

981
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,160
Air and I'm getting old, you 
know, I forgot the things. 

982
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:51,400
But do you? 
I'm sure because of that timing,

983
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:53,960
you've seen a lot the rise and 
fall of some some chefs, you 

984
00:56:53,960 --> 00:56:56,880
know, some chefs have probably 
closed restaurants and moved on.

985
00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:58,720
Or maybe they were. 
Especially because you have 

986
00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,280
pandemic. 
Pandemic, right? 

987
00:57:00,280 --> 00:57:02,920
Yeah, sure, maybe. 
Maybe a chef was very hot for a 

988
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:04,720
moment and maybe they're not as 
hot anymore. 

989
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:08,480
And so this is maybe a difficult
question to ask, but I would 

990
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:15,040
ask, is there something that you
notice when you say, oh, chef, 

991
00:57:15,040 --> 00:57:19,560
you might want to, you might be 
headed for do you notice? 

992
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,640
Something now I, I don't think, 
I, I don't think I have the 

993
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,880
expertise that you have, you 
know, because you've been 

994
00:57:26,880 --> 00:57:31,200
through, you know, all the 
different scenarios because, you

995
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,960
know, we, you shared a lot of, 
you know, part of your life's a 

996
00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:38,840
professional life. 
So I don't have, I'm not a chef.

997
00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:43,880
So I'm, I'm always looking at it
from an outside view of someone 

998
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:47,440
who is passionate about, you 
know, food and passionate about 

999
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:55,200
and intrigued and as well very 
humble and appreciate like the 

1000
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:58,400
ton of work that exists, you 
know, in that profession that 

1001
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,600
usually people don't really 
realize. 

1002
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,760
So I'm, I'm looking at it that, 
so I it's very difficult for me 

1003
00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:10,040
to put like any judgement call 
because I don't think I have the

1004
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:11,600
expertise. 
You're you're walking the 

1005
00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:13,320
razor's edge on a lot of these 
questions. 

1006
00:58:13,920 --> 00:58:17,120
No, not a lot. 
OK, so I'm going to ask you a 

1007
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,960
very tough one. 
Here's a very tough one. 

1008
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,440
What is the best Food City in in
the United States right now? 

1009
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:23,360
Best Food City? 
And don't say, don't say New 

1010
00:58:23,360 --> 00:58:26,280
Jersey. 
No, because that's where you 

1011
00:58:26,280 --> 00:58:28,240
live. 
No, I wouldn't. 

1012
00:58:28,240 --> 00:58:31,520
No, I I think I am. 
I am in it. 

1013
00:58:31,720 --> 00:58:35,000
I think like every time a lot of
people ask me questions. 

1014
00:58:35,000 --> 00:58:37,320
So I always start with Austin. 
Really. 

1015
00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:39,680
Yeah, absolutely, absolutely, 
Austin. 

1016
00:58:39,680 --> 00:58:41,040
You're not just saying that 
because we're here, no. 

1017
00:58:41,040 --> 00:58:44,440
No, no, no, no, no. 
I always say Austin first, then 

1018
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:48,640
I'm going to say probably 
Portland and Seattle. 

1019
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:50,880
It's pretty good. 
Good. 

1020
00:58:51,760 --> 00:58:54,160
I would say Nashville. 
Now maybe I will not have 

1021
00:58:54,160 --> 00:58:59,040
mentioned Nashville 20 years 
ago, but now I think fantastic. 

1022
00:59:00,320 --> 00:59:04,200
Obviously LA because there's a 
lot of, you know, LA, New York 

1023
00:59:04,200 --> 00:59:09,840
because you, you know, there's 
so, so many new, you know, 

1024
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,960
restaurants opening and closing,
of course, but and another one 

1025
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:18,440
that I really liked spending 
time like more. 

1026
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:20,920
It's Miami. 
I think there's some good stuff 

1027
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:24,280
in Miami. 
I, I think if, if I was to make 

1028
00:59:24,280 --> 00:59:29,280
a prediction, I think the two 
cities that will maybe 3, but 

1029
00:59:29,280 --> 00:59:31,080
the 2 for sure that I think will
emerge. 

1030
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,880
But it has more to do with, I 
would maybe say the, the 

1031
00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:40,520
economics, but also the social 
influence, because social 

1032
00:59:40,520 --> 00:59:43,680
influence also plays a big part 
of creating the food scene. 

1033
00:59:43,680 --> 00:59:46,720
If you have influencers and you 
know, it's gonna, it's gonna 

1034
00:59:46,720 --> 00:59:48,240
affect the amount of attention 
that goes there. 

1035
00:59:49,840 --> 00:59:52,040
And then of course the dining 
community that goes on the, I, I

1036
00:59:52,040 --> 00:59:54,960
think if I would say 2 cities, 
it's Austin and Miami right now 

1037
00:59:54,960 --> 00:59:58,200
that I think are going to really
emerge because of the amount of 

1038
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,600
content creators in those 
markets. 

1039
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:04,040
Miami having a heavy presence of
content creation and, and, and 

1040
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:08,000
nightlife, you're going to see 
more of their food just just 

1041
01:00:08,000 --> 01:00:09,880
because of that reason alone. 
Same thing with Austin. 

1042
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:12,440
You have a lot of podcasts and 
content creators in Austin, so 

1043
01:00:12,440 --> 01:00:13,880
you're going to see a lot of 
Austin food. 

1044
01:00:15,480 --> 01:00:17,040
The third city, I'd say, is 
Nashville's. 

1045
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:19,520
Yeah, yeah, Nashville, I like, I
like Nashville. 

1046
01:00:19,520 --> 01:00:23,960
So you know, if if someone, you 
know, comes to the US and and 

1047
01:00:23,960 --> 01:00:27,840
say, hey, where should I go? 
I always, you know, I have, I 

1048
01:00:27,840 --> 01:00:30,720
mean the one I mentioned, but 
you know, I would say anyhow, 

1049
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:32,960
you will go to LA and you're 
going to go to New York. 

1050
01:00:32,960 --> 01:00:36,320
So, but if you want to go 
outside of it, that's you know. 

1051
01:00:36,320 --> 01:00:40,000
But I but I feel like New York, 
LA and Chicago are always in the

1052
01:00:40,000 --> 01:00:42,200
conversation. 
I I assume they're always in the

1053
01:00:42,200 --> 01:00:43,080
conversation? 
Too. 

1054
01:00:43,080 --> 01:00:45,480
You know what? 
And I am going to make some 

1055
01:00:45,480 --> 01:00:49,600
enemies here. 
So sorry guys, but I'm for me, 

1056
01:00:49,600 --> 01:00:53,040
Chicago is like, oh, no, it's, 
it's OK. 

1057
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,800
It's yeah, I mean, there's some 
great restaurants and so on 

1058
01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:00,160
there. 
But but if I have to, let's see 

1059
01:01:00,160 --> 01:01:04,360
if tomorrow you said, OK, we can
transport ourself and then we go

1060
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,360
somewhere for for dinner. 
I, I very rarely. 

1061
01:01:07,360 --> 01:01:09,040
I'm going to be Chicago. 
Really. 

1062
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,040
Yeah. 
I like Chicago. 

1063
01:01:12,120 --> 01:01:13,400
I was just there. 
It was great. 

1064
01:01:13,760 --> 01:01:17,480
Yeah, I mean, yeah, probably, 
maybe I, I didn't go to I, I 

1065
01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,720
don't know. 
Yeah, you need to interview more

1066
01:01:19,720 --> 01:01:21,480
Chicago chefs. 
They're gonna, they're, they're 

1067
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,320
gonna be calling you. 
After I know, please call me. 

1068
01:01:25,000 --> 01:01:27,240
Please call me. 
I, I love the book though. 

1069
01:01:27,240 --> 01:01:29,400
Thank you for sending in to me. 
I, I love the first one as well.

1070
01:01:29,560 --> 01:01:33,000
And you know, you wrote a nice 
little message, of course 

1071
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:38,400
message to me. 
I'm, I'm happy that you write 

1072
01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:41,440
and people should read this book
by the way, cuz as I started 

1073
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:44,200
reading, it's like, wow, not 
only is it, it's a good story, 

1074
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,280
like I said earlier, like I like
how you write. 

1075
01:01:47,000 --> 01:01:48,520
Is it a good story? 
But it's very educational. 

1076
01:01:48,520 --> 01:01:50,320
So as I started turning the 
pages like, oh, I didn't know 

1077
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:52,160
that. 
I haven't got to the part about 

1078
01:01:52,160 --> 01:01:54,400
vanilla being nowhere, but I'm 
assuming that's in the book too.

1079
01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,240
The venom B. 
That they don't cook with 

1080
01:01:57,240 --> 01:01:57,880
vanilla. 
Over there. 

1081
01:01:57,880 --> 01:02:00,160
Oh yeah, sure. 
And and there's another thing as

1082
01:02:00,160 --> 01:02:04,480
well that people, I was 
surprised that people really 

1083
01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:07,080
don't know that for even the 
people that know that vanilla 

1084
01:02:07,080 --> 01:02:11,120
comes from Madagascar, they have
no idea that every flower is 

1085
01:02:11,120 --> 01:02:14,360
hand pollinated one by one. 
Really. 

1086
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:16,720
See, here you go. 
Yeah. 

1087
01:02:16,720 --> 01:02:19,960
So you know, Velina comes from 
Mexico. 

1088
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:23,200
Mexico. 
There is a little bee that's 

1089
01:02:23,200 --> 01:02:27,040
pollinates the orchid flower to 
create the Veneta bean to 

1090
01:02:27,040 --> 01:02:32,560
produce Veneta beans when French
them again, then took you know 

1091
01:02:32,600 --> 01:02:36,920
some of those vines and then try
in different part of the world 

1092
01:02:36,920 --> 01:02:41,360
in the tropics, you know area. 
They brought it to the Indian 

1093
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,760
Ocean to Little de la Reignon, 
which is close to Madagascar. 

1094
01:02:45,960 --> 01:02:49,000
And then they realized that in 
fact, they were planning the 

1095
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:50,960
vine. 
The vine was growing, but there 

1096
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:52,960
was no production of vanilla 
beans ever. 

1097
01:02:53,360 --> 01:02:55,960
And say what's going on? 
And then they took the insect 

1098
01:02:55,960 --> 01:03:00,160
with, but the insect died. 
So the insect doesn't leave 

1099
01:03:00,160 --> 01:03:02,480
outside nor survive outside of 
Mexico. 

1100
01:03:02,880 --> 01:03:06,600
So all the vanilla that are 
implemented in other part of the

1101
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:09,120
world have to be hand 
pollinated. 

1102
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:12,640
So every morning during the 
season, which is in September 

1103
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:16,280
and October in Madagascar, 
women, because smaller finger 

1104
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:20,720
will go and you know, in each 
vine that they have in on their 

1105
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:23,560
piece of land, they will hand 
pollinate. 

1106
01:03:23,560 --> 01:03:27,440
And I've done that step when I 
went to Yeah. 

1107
01:03:27,440 --> 01:03:32,000
So they take like a little 
usually a thorn, you know, from 

1108
01:03:32,000 --> 01:03:36,080
another tree and so on. 
And because the way the orchid 

1109
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:42,080
is done is that this only little
bee has the possibility to flip 

1110
01:03:42,080 --> 01:03:45,880
like, you know, one of the, you 
know, a female or male organ. 

1111
01:03:45,880 --> 01:03:48,520
I don't remember. 
But when and what by doing this,

1112
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:52,360
then they, you know, they put in
Nate the the, the the flower. 

1113
01:03:53,720 --> 01:03:56,960
If you don't have it, the the 
flower is done in a way that it 

1114
01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,760
is physically impossible to have
the two, you know, sex of like 

1115
01:04:01,920 --> 01:04:06,160
the flower to touch. 
So then you have to lift, you 

1116
01:04:06,160 --> 01:04:10,440
know, with your finger with the,
the help of like a thorn or a 

1117
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:13,240
little tool. 
And then you have to press, you 

1118
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:15,440
know, those things together. 
And you have to have to do that 

1119
01:04:15,520 --> 01:04:18,160
one by one. 
And each flower produce. 

1120
01:04:18,200 --> 01:04:19,880
I need one vanilla bean from my 
house. 

1121
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:32,320
Hey, whatever you got to do. 
Actually, well, that type of 

1122
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:33,520
party. 
I'm just kidding. 

1123
01:04:33,760 --> 01:04:35,920
I know, I know, I. 
Don't wait, but so funny though.

1124
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:41,160
So last question, because you 
interview chefs, you know your 

1125
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:44,440
you know your chef history. 
In the United States, we have 

1126
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,240
Mount Rushmore. 
And if there was a Mount 

1127
01:04:47,240 --> 01:04:50,080
Rushmore of four the four 
greatest chefs to ever live, are

1128
01:04:50,160 --> 01:04:50,840
you? 
Kidding me? 

1129
01:04:50,840 --> 01:04:51,360
Who? 
Are they? 

1130
01:04:52,320 --> 01:04:53,480
They. 
Don't have to be American. 

1131
01:04:53,520 --> 01:04:57,000
Oh yeah, I mean, I'm going to 
put one because I'm still 

1132
01:04:57,000 --> 01:05:00,040
begging him to come on the 
podcast and he's not coming yet.

1133
01:05:00,040 --> 01:05:03,160
He answers me and so on. 
But it's Sean Brock. 

1134
01:05:03,520 --> 01:05:08,120
I will have Sean Brock on that 
rock for sure. 

1135
01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:08,960
So you got Sean? 
Brock. 

1136
01:05:08,960 --> 01:05:12,960
That's that's he's my, my, my. 
He's your favorite chef? 

1137
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:22,200
Yeah. 
I like the new generation of 

1138
01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:26,440
chefs, in fact, because I think 
that they have that mindset of 

1139
01:05:26,440 --> 01:05:36,800
collaboration very open. 
But Oh my gosh, that's a tough 

1140
01:05:36,800 --> 01:05:40,080
question. 
I don't even know when we I'm 

1141
01:05:40,080 --> 01:05:41,480
surprised. 
You don't have any French chefs 

1142
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:44,120
in there? 
Oh yeah, yeah, I was in the 

1143
01:05:46,440 --> 01:05:47,320
yeah, yeah, yeah. 
OK. 

1144
01:05:47,320 --> 01:05:49,120
OK. 
So no, I was not thinking about 

1145
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,640
like international. 
Sorry and you said it and sorry,

1146
01:05:51,640 --> 01:05:53,280
I forgot. 
We have we have Sean Brock. 

1147
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:58,320
So Sean Brock for the USDS. 
I will put yeah, Alan Ducasse 

1148
01:05:58,320 --> 01:06:03,720
probably. 
Yeah, Alan Ducasse I love as 

1149
01:06:03,720 --> 01:06:05,800
well. 
I will put a pastry chef. 

1150
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:09,360
I will put Pierre on me another 
French there. 

1151
01:06:12,120 --> 01:06:18,280
And then we need to have we need
to have a French from a chef 

1152
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,040
from that time. 
But I don't know if I know them 

1153
01:06:22,040 --> 01:06:28,160
enough because there's so many, 
you know, fantastic chefs in I 

1154
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:31,400
think maybe someone from Peru. 
I mean, because the Peruvian 

1155
01:06:31,400 --> 01:06:34,080
cuisine is you. 
You are asking me, you know what

1156
01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,440
I like to be trans Peruvian 
cuisine is 1. 

1157
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:44,120
So a chef from Peru that we put 
OK and I need a fourth one. 

1158
01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:46,200
That's four. 
That's four, yeah. 

1159
01:06:46,320 --> 01:06:49,640
OK, you got 4. 
You don't have a Peru chef by 

1160
01:06:49,640 --> 01:06:53,200
name. 
I mean, I know Gaston. 

1161
01:06:54,160 --> 01:06:55,640
What's his name? 
Gaston. 

1162
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:01,760
No, keep it, Gaston. 
Well, I'm not good with names. 

1163
01:07:01,960 --> 01:07:02,960
As you can. 
No, it's OK. 

1164
01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:05,200
I mean, neither am I. 
But I yeah. 

1165
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:07,720
I I think about. 
That's a tough one. 

1166
01:07:07,960 --> 01:07:10,200
That's a tough question. 
I think about the length of time

1167
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:12,440
that I've known you since 2018, 
I think the year that you 

1168
01:07:12,440 --> 01:07:14,080
started. 
Yeah, I know that we've been 

1169
01:07:14,080 --> 01:07:17,720
friends for a long time. 
People that want to buy your 

1170
01:07:17,720 --> 01:07:19,560
book, where can they? 
Where can they buy it? 

1171
01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:24,040
So first of all, they can buy it
like everywhere they buy books 

1172
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:27,840
online, they can find the 
information as well on I created

1173
01:07:27,840 --> 01:07:31,280
like a page called a 
tasteofmadagascar.com, which is 

1174
01:07:31,280 --> 01:07:36,440
easy to remember. 
They can, you know, Amazon, 

1175
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,400
Amazon, yeah, sure. 
You know, Amazon, you know, and 

1176
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:48,680
you know, I, I love as well all 
the, the, the private, you know,

1177
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:52,800
like bookstore that I 
specialized in, in cuisine and 

1178
01:07:52,800 --> 01:07:56,200
cooking and so on. 
Like kitchen alternators in in 

1179
01:07:56,320 --> 01:07:59,800
New York or there's a fantastic 
new one in Savannah called 

1180
01:08:00,120 --> 01:08:07,960
Postal tables and tails. 
There is omnivore in San 

1181
01:08:07,960 --> 01:08:12,120
Francisco. 
There is now serving in LA. 

1182
01:08:12,760 --> 01:08:15,200
All the all of those are. 
New books in all food. 

1183
01:08:15,440 --> 01:08:18,000
Yeah, yeah. 
And and your other book as well,

1184
01:08:18,000 --> 01:08:18,920
correct. 
Yeah. 

1185
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:23,160
So I mean, you can find it on 
online and in fact there's still

1186
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:25,960
people reading it. 
Conversations behind the kitchen

1187
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:26,760
door. 
Great book. 

1188
01:08:28,439 --> 01:08:30,399
A taste of Madagascar, great 
book. 

1189
01:08:30,640 --> 01:08:34,520
Podcast Flavors under so known 
everywhere.com, Everywhere, 

1190
01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:35,920
everywhere. 
And by the way, I was thinking, 

1191
01:08:35,920 --> 01:08:37,960
I've been on five episodes, I 
think 5. 

1192
01:08:38,080 --> 01:08:40,200
Yeah, so there's the first. 
I did two solo. 

1193
01:08:40,200 --> 01:08:42,279
Ones you have to put you on the 
Mount Rushmore. 

1194
01:08:42,960 --> 01:08:45,479
You should. 
You have two solo ones with me 

1195
01:08:45,479 --> 01:08:48,399
and then you had the CMO one. 
When we were supposed to go at 

1196
01:08:48,399 --> 01:08:50,279
South by Southwest. 
We got cancelled so cold. 

1197
01:08:50,279 --> 01:08:52,319
Which is the leadership? 
The leadership. 

1198
01:08:52,319 --> 01:08:55,840
One and then the panel. 
We did the panel with Kevin Fink

1199
01:08:55,840 --> 01:08:58,080
and Fiori Tedesco. 
Yeah, we did. 

1200
01:08:58,080 --> 01:09:00,880
Another Mexican independence? 
Day, that's true. 

1201
01:09:01,000 --> 01:09:04,680
With I forgot Edgar Rico and and
Rick Lopez. 

1202
01:09:04,680 --> 01:09:06,880
Yeah, and someone else I'm 
probably forgetting. 

1203
01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:11,760
And then we did another one with
Gabriel Crowther and Suzanne 

1204
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,560
Goin. 
Oh yeah. 

1205
01:09:13,920 --> 01:09:16,240
Oh I forgot, I think that's 7. 
No way. 

1206
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,000
So yeah, Oh my gosh. 
Then I don't think anyone could.

1207
01:09:20,000 --> 01:09:21,439
No, I don't think you've had a 
guest. 

1208
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,040
On you are you are you are the 
best you've. 

1209
01:09:24,040 --> 01:09:26,240
Been on two of my podcasts. 
You've been on Chefs PSA and 

1210
01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:30,160
you're also on Run the Pass. 
Yes, that's right as well. 

1211
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,439
Go back and listen to that one, 
Emmanuel. 

1212
01:09:32,880 --> 01:09:34,359
People could find you on Flavors
Phenom. 

1213
01:09:34,399 --> 01:09:35,880
They could find you everywhere. 
Thank you for being here. 

1214
01:09:35,880 --> 01:09:37,160
Thank you. 
Thank you for having me. 

1215
01:09:37,160 --> 01:09:39,200
I really appreciate it. 
I miss seeing you, it's been too

1216
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:40,359
long. 
I know, I know. 

1217
01:09:40,359 --> 01:09:44,040
But you, every time I come to 
Austin, you are the first person

1218
01:09:44,040 --> 01:09:46,120
I contact, so you know that. 
Yeah, thank you. 

1219
01:09:47,120 --> 01:09:49,160
All right, that's the show. 
If you liked it, make sure you 

1220
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:51,279
leave five stars, nothing less 
than five stars. 

1221
01:09:51,640 --> 01:09:54,240
If you want more chefs PSA, go 
to chefspsa.com. 

1222
01:09:54,640 --> 01:09:56,880
Get yourself some books, get 
yourself some merch including 

1223
01:09:56,880 --> 01:09:59,600
Culinary Leadership Fundamentals
and the Line Cook Survival 

1224
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:01,080
manual. 
If you want early access to 

1225
01:10:01,080 --> 01:10:04,000
episodes, you can get them on 
Spotify and sub stack by 

1226
01:10:04,000 --> 01:10:06,120
becoming a paid member. 
The link is in the notes. 

1227
01:10:06,280 --> 01:10:08,280
We'll see you next week. 
Hit the porno music. 

1228
01:10:08,480 --> 01:10:10,920
No small Drake in the kitchen. 
Mix it. 

1229
01:10:11,080 --> 01:10:14,360
Drop the chef Dallas. 
No fiction stirring up the BT 

1230
01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,960
enough the session. 
Listen close classes and sex.