Hello chefs, this is Chefs PSA and I'm your host Andre Natera.
Today my guest is Chef Francis Pascal, chef and owner of
Endodore, a high end private dining company based out of
Chicago. Today we're going to talk about
some advice for anyone wanting to get into the private dining
business. The importance of making sure
you have a contract, having a rhythm working with other chefs.
If you've ever thought about exploring the private dining
business, you don't want to miss this one.
Stay tuned. I came here in 2004 and it was
just my immediate family. We basically just got up after
our parents let us know and like within a week's time that we
were leaving and we got to this. Is in Albania.
This is in Albania. We got to say goodbye.
To our family, how old are you? I'm eleven at this point and
that we just basically show up to Chicago, didn't know anybody
here and just moved into this tiny little apartment.
My parents started going to work and all of a sudden I went from
being in an environment where I knew tons of people to all of a
sudden just like being here alone, not speaking the language
and having to basically just like start living life almost on
my own. Like I I had an older sibling,
but. So for people that don't know,
why did you guys have to leave Albania?
So obviously this is a big land of opportunity kind of
situation. But obviously there was after
the breakup of Yugoslavia, everybody was like fighting for
territory and there was a war, a genocide that was happening in
the northern part of Albania. And it was just not a good place
to raise raise kids. It was after the fall of
communism as well. So it was basically literally
anarchy. Like there would just be like
raining bullets a lot of the time, like.
You, I mean, do you remember? That yeah, yeah, yeah.
Like Albania has over something like 700,000 bunkers, more than
any other country, like per capita.
So like they were just ready for war all the time.
Obviously we're a part of like, you know, World War One, World
War 2, the Cold War, this whole situation.
And then we had a dictator and we were under a communist regime
until basically I was born. But that just carried on into
our lives still. And again, like there just
wasn't once a borders opened up, there was just like a mass
exodus of people and it was just anarchy.
Like there was no real political party.
People were kind of fighting for power.
And it was just a tough little environment to kind of grow up.
And or at least like from the outside perspective, when you're
a kid, you don't know any better.
And if you're like growing up, quote UN quote poor and
everybody else around you is just as poor, you don't know
that you're poor. So like, I wouldn't say that I
had necessarily had a bad childhood coming to the United
States. All of a sudden I realized that
there was a lot of people that had way more than you do.
And all of a sudden, like that matters, but it never did.
Then we all just like had, you know, all my grandparents come
from families, have like 15 kids, so they have a ton of
kids. So I got a billion cousins and
aunts and uncles and all that kind of stuff.
So we were always a power, like a part of a really big community
all the time. And all the people that live
there had lived there for literally hundreds of years.
Everybody knows everybody. And it's, it's not like here at
all where you kind of like want to stay away from your neighbor.
You might live in these communities, but you like kind
of want to stay to your own. Like they're everybody knows
everybody. They're all in each other's
businesses all the time. So that's the annoying part of
it, is that everybody's always in your business.
And then there's the really great part of it in which you
have a really large community that you can always lean to.
So you're 11 years old. Yeah.
And your your parents come to you and say, hey, we're we're
leaving it. Was this a very sudden decision
or was this planned out it? Was calculated on their end.
My mom literally won the lottery that that's literally what it's
called. You like apply and this happens
in a bunch of countries all over the world, but you apply and
then like once a year they pick out X amount of people.
And then she'd apply to a bunch of places like Canada, New
Zealand, Germany, Italy. And then we, we got accepted
into the US. So they, it seems like they got
their plans together, but they really didn't let us know.
We went to like our grandparents village for like that last time
that summer, just hung out there.
And then, yeah, next thing you know, it's it's time to go and
it's January and we're in Chicago and it's like freezing
cold. So you go from Albania, you
arrive in Chicago. It's freezing cold.
Yeah, fucking right now it's cold.
I mean, right now it's cold in Chicago.
We just had this. You were at -27 you got I, I
came here, people were complaining of it.
I got, it's 37. I'm like do this.
It was 44, what I came with. Yeah, it was.
Like 60° warmer here, it's nice. Yeah, yeah.
Well in in Texas when you have these these ice storms, like the
whole, the whole state shuts down.
I had to cancel like 4 podcasts. So I'm behind on a couple of
episodes. I had AI had a sorry chefs.
I know that we're supposed to come on, but we had to
reschedule a couple of episodes. But anyway, we digress.
So you're 11 years old, you arrive in Chicago and it was
just your immediate family. So.
So you're leaving behind everyone?
Everybody. Yeah, I have my, my parents and
my older sibling and like my parents are, they were in the
economic world back in Albania, like they went to school, got
their degrees, etcetera. Once you come here, those are
nullified, right? So now you're in your early to
mid 40s, you're going to a place where you don't speak the
language. You have to work 2 jobs and
they're like janitorial jobs. They're not like in the field in
which you're in. And so like, imagine that
sacrifice, you know, like all the bullshit that I complain
about or people my age, like complained about, like I'm the
first person in my family to know what it's like to pursue,
meaning, you know, my parents just survived.
My grandparents just survived. Like they were just brought up
in these really kind of harsh environments in which you were
just required to participate and it didn't matter whether you
like the job or not, you just had to do that job.
So I think like a tremendous part of my work ethic has come
from that of just being like, dude, look, look at what my
parents would sacrifice just to make sure that I have a better
future. Like I have a lot riding on this
and I think about that all the time in the sense of like, I
need to give back to my community because they've always
been there to support me. And so it's just it's always in
the forefront of of my mind and and how I lead life.
When I was younger, I, I worked in a in a restaurant in Colorado
and I want to say like 80% of the staff there was from Russia.
And I remember having conversations with some of them
and like a busser or a dishwasher specifically.
I remember one of the bussers was a doctor and saying, you
know, and I remember thinking like, you know, and I, I was
young, I didn't understand like, well, why are you a busser?
Like, why aren't you a doctor? If you're a doctor?
And I, you know, sometimes I would think, oh, these guys are
full of shit. I didn't believe them not
understanding, you know, what people were going through on the
other side of the world. How tough was it to leave your
family behind? Some assuming cousins, friends,
aunts, uncles. I think initially it was like
fun being somewhere different. Like you kind of don't
understand that you're like going away forever when you're
that young. You're like, yeah, we're moving,
but you don't really know what that means.
And we, we, we've been back. Like I go back.
I obviously I still talk to all my family there.
But like, man, the craziest part is that you start to become
somebody that they used to know. Like, it's just like the saddest
thing. It makes me super emotional
because like, you know, like I have cousins and when you're a
kid, like you can look at somebody that's like 30 or 35
and be like, dude, like that's fucking old.
Like that person's really up there, right?
So I could look at like my uncles at that time or etcetera.
And now they're like getting older.
And so there's like this big long period in which you, you're
not there for this period in their life, but you know them
and then they don't get to hear from you as much and vice versa.
And there wasn't like social media, so it's not like you
could like, follow each other at this time, so.
Stale mail writing letters, right?
Yeah, man. Or like you would have to like
buy these little cards and like punch the numbers in to be able
to call. But they're like 7 hours ahead.
So you got to call at specific times.
And like, so you become somebody that they used to know and now
they're having kids and now you've never met their kids and
they're having this life. And they, they, they talk to
they talk to their kids about how this is like their cousin
that lives in the US. Like, when I was a kid, my dad's
uncle lived in Boston and he would like, send us these
packages with like, you know, clothes or whatever, right?
And like, that's always how I knew him was just like this
person that I'd never met. But that was over there.
And then you just become so like weirdly desensitized to not
having that around you, even though it's such a big part of
of who you are. How did that shape you as a chef
when you came here and you started working and you started
working at kitchens? How did your your identity being
Albanian shape your work ethic and how you approach kitchens
when you when you first got into them?
I loved every moment of it right away because of two things.
Like I played soccer my entire life, team sport, like you all
win together or lose together. And then B was just like the
militant aspect of it, like growing up in a place like
Albania, where obviously it was like communist, like everybody
had to be a part of the army. Like everybody had to serve.
My parents have both had to serve.
And so like, I just grew up in a yes, Sir environment.
Like your parents word is just law.
Like your grandparents word is law.
Like you don't. And so like the moment that I
jumped into kitchens, I was like, yeah, this is for me.
Like I never had a single problem with like following
chefs or just like doing the things that I needed to be
doing. Like, and I freaking I I hate
authority. Like it.
It's why I work for myself. Like I, I can't stand any sort
of like authoritarian figure at all.
But like, when it comes down to, you know, following somebody
that I really respect, like I, I don't care what position I have
to play. Like as long as the team is
winning, that's all that matters.
And so those two things was, you know, playing soccer and then
growing up in a place like that where it was super, it was just
very Shrek, man. I just grew up in a, in a
fucking tight environment. Like my parents just had a, a
stronghold on us at all times, like date.
It's not like here where it's just you kind of know the
teachers and you kind of go to like their parents teachers.
And it's like, no, like they went to school with the people
that end up becoming your teachers and they know their
parents. And so like anywhere you walk
within the neighborhoods, like everybody's like watching you,
you know, so it's like it's this, it's this you, you grow up
with the, the feeling that you have to like make your people
proud. And so you constantly have to
watch how you behave and like, you want to be known as somebody
that bends over backwards to take care of other people.
And so like your reputation matters.
And so like in kitchens, I was like, I got to go hard.
Like I have to be one of the best people here just in
general. Like I've just always been super
competitive too. So that part of it, I was like,
I, I need to make sure that I'm participating.
And that's what it. And that's, I guess the biggest
difference between something like capitalism over communism.
It's like everybody's quote UN quote equal, but it's just like,
you know, in the Western world, you have to be #1 or you're not
relevant, which is just not true.
Like everybody plays a, a, a small part into making the
entire society happen. Whereas like in, in these other
places, like you just, you have to participate, You have to do
your part, but there's no such thing as you don't participate
at all. So jumping into kitchens, I was
like, OK, great. Like if I'm working Garmo or
Steam or, or Saute or whatever it is, I'm like, I just need to
do my little part here really well to make sure that like the
rest of, of, of the team is doing well too.
Like I think I I got that from the beginning.
Did did any of your identity of being Albanian now come through
and and and the food that you create and you're cooking?
A little bit, but I think the crazy part is that like I grew
up in a very traditional household in the sense of like,
you know, the men would go to work, the women would, would,
would stay at home. But like, you know, my parents
didn't by that time, like they were both, they both had to
work. But like the rest of the time,
it's like I never had to cook growing up.
Like I did plenty of other things, but like, I never had
to. Like, I don't have that story of
like, I grew up. I'm like my grandmother.
Like, yeah, I was around like I would peel cabbages or whatever,
but it wasn't like I was like cooking.
And so like, I never really got to learn how to do a lot of all
beta food until I got older and had to like be inquisitive and
ask my, you know, my, my people on how to do it.
But then, you know, like, even even when I was here, like we,
we ate all beta food at home all the time.
Like my mom would still cook all the time.
Well, you've, you've worked in some really great restaurants
and you've, you've worked for the Alinea group and
specifically I, I, I mean, you posted a video I think the other
day where you maybe you were doing a lamb, right?
And you're based in slice. It looked great.
I love the traditional cooking techniques for me personally.
Now it's not that I don't like some of the more modernist or
molecular astronomy because I do.
I did that for a long time and and you know, I, I like went
down that lane and said, this is what I'm going to do for me
later on. I was like, you know what, I
know I started doing that, but I don't like it that much.
I like cooking, you know, I like the the process of making stocks
and sauces and and roasting meat and things like that, you know,
cooking more in the traditional sense.
But that's me. I want to ask you about you
because you've worked in, you know, in a lot of different
styles. How does that how did that shape
you and how do you cook now, having worked in so many
different styles of kitchens? I think I'd definitely prefer
more classical, traditional cooking.
I do think that there is a lot of benefit to learning how to do
things kind of the old way first and then being able to do them
and, you know, take that same kind of element and practice it
in in molecular gastronomy if that's the route that you want
to go. My philosophy is really more
around finding a really great ingredient and trying to just
not fuck it up and, and just just trying to to showcase it
and maybe a couple of different ways, but then keeping it very
simple. I just think that it's it's
always going to Trump going directly into like a three star
place. Like, and I don't know, maybe
sometimes like you do get to learn that that sort of thing in
a three star place if you go there right away.
But I think, you know, if I look back at like the first
restaurants that I worked at, the first one that I worked at
even for a couple of months before I went to like my actual
first restaurant job was like a diner, right?
And like working the egg station at a diner is fucking crazy,
right? Because you're like these guys
will make holidays in a double boiler like this, right?
You like, that's a big batch to mess up, right?
Like you're actually streaming it.
You're keeping it in nine pans. Like anything.
You got to constantly keep up with that temperature.
Like, yeah, sure, you could add a touch of xanthem to it and
make sure or you put it in an ISI and just hold it in a bath
and just put it over your poached eggs.
Like if you're thinking about logistics like that, like, sure,
but you need to know how to make that holidays first, right?
So like I worked at that place and then went directly into just
like French Japanese fusion cuisine.
That was a really big restaurant.
We were doing probably 4 or 500 covers a night.
And it was all so traditional. Like we didn't do any like sous
video or anything like that. Like you cooked all fish,
chicken, beef, all from raw and it was just a, a long giant line
with a bunch of burners, right? So it's not even a French top.
Like you have to constantly watch your pants or your sauces
are not burning. You have 1 double Decker oven
and you throw into like friggin you're fired on 30 different
pieces of meat. You're, you're constantly
touching on all of them as opposed to just being like, OK,
cool. Like I have all these things
individually packaged in a sous video bag.
I'm dropping it at 56 for however long I'm taking it out.
I'm just getting colored and searing it, finishing with
butter, garlic, whatever you're doing and, and just being able
to send that out. But I think like, you know,
getting to the point where you can touch all the food all the
time, learning on how to do basic things like emulsifying
sauces on the fly and just getting the timing right.
You know, like being able to communicate with everybody else
in the kitchen about how long you actually need and having
these people just be on your ass, man.
I remember we all had timers on our stations that we were all
just like clicking and just dogging each other.
Like if you didn't get it. And at that time, because it's
like, I thought you were the shit.
Like because that's how you're acting, right?
Like, and that's, you know, for me and everybody else, right?
It's just like there's a level of competition in those kitchens
that really kind of gets you to like, you have to just like this
is one of those careers where you cannot hide.
And like it's because you're in such short time restriction.
Not not just like during service, but like leading up to
prep and just being sure that you're like good all set up to
do a giant service. I mean, it's those skills are
going to translate to literally everything else that you do in
life because like, you know, that's the whole, that's the
whole concept behind me saying something like, you know,
practice doesn't make perfect. Practice makes permanent.
And it was at that same restaurant where like this
patient chef, she was a patient chef at Blackbird right before
that. And I'm just like, I'm young at
this point, right? Like we're, we're in pre chef
the one day. And I just remember so
distinctively her saying practice makes permanent.
And it's, it's one of these things like these concepts where
it's like, you know, it, like your entire life, you've known
it, but like you'd never heard anyone put it into words before.
In the moment that she said that, I was like, it was like a
light switch going off, right? And I was like, I knew exactly
what she meant when she said that because I'm just like,
dude, if you cut, if you cut corners, if you skip steps, like
that's going to become your practice, right?
Right. If you're just like, look, I'm
just going to pick up that thing off the floor.
I'm going to wipe my station. I'm going to make sure that my
knife is, you know, facing straight, whatever it is.
Like these little things, if you just do it all the time, like it
just becomes a habit to the point where it's like breathing.
You just don't even have to think about it anymore.
It's like that that Aristotle quote.
We are what we repeatedly do. Therefore, excellence is not an
act, but a habit. And one of the things that I
used to really trained my cooks on, it's like, I want so many of
your good habits to be on autopilot.
And they would, they would get annoyed with me.
Like, you know, fold your towel this way, put your knife right
here all the time, you know, set your, your bane right here.
Whatever the case may be, cut the fish always like this.
And it wasn't that I was that picky.
It's just I didn't want them to think about it because I wanted
their, their habits and their work practices to be excellent
on autopilot. Because then, then you'll start
to notice. That's when you really start to
notice what level you're at is when you when, when your habits
are, you know, an 8 out of 10 or a nine out of 10 and you go work
somewhere else and you're like, oh, wow, everyone says, wow,
you're really good. It's, it's not that, it's not
that you have this extra extra IQ that other people don't have.
It's just like you practiced at a higher level.
So you understand things at a higher level.
And I love that practice makes permanent.
I call it robotics man. Like you just get to a point
where you do the same movement every time.
It is, but that's, I mean, you're, you're grooving
neuropathies in your brain. You're just you just I'm just, I
want to reach for the spoon and to be in the same place every
time. I want to do the pick up the
exact same way every single time.
Like it's, I, I wish that more people kind of understood that,
especially as like young chefs, because you, you want to do a
bunch of different things, you want to try things in a bunch of
different ways, but it's like you, you got it.
Like it's like when you come onto somebody's staging and
they're like, OK, cool. Like do it in the way that I'm
teaching you in the beginning. And like, once you get it, like,
sure, you can add your own things and make it work, But
like in the beginning you got to do it this way.
Like you're being shown this way for a reason and like, got it,
got to practice it that way. When, when people would come up
to me, especially if it's someone that I've never worked
with before, that's and I'm the chef and maybe they're helping
me and they'd come and they'd I'd say stop.
Let's just don't put that there. Yeah, put it here.
Here's why. Like don't hand me the deli with
the lid on it, take it off over it.
And here's why. Because it's an extra step.
And when I have a spoon and I, I don't need that, I don't need
that extra 2nd. And and then, OK, so it starts
to click and then you start to have this cadence with the other
people and then your whole kitchen has that same cadence.
It's like, OK, now we could flow because we all are working off
the same system. And I don't, I don't know if
everyone fully understands how important that dance and dancing
to the same song. Yeah, I just, I, I wish more
than anything that they would look at it and understand that
like them doing that for somebody else does not make them
lesser than like it's such a fucking skill to be able to look
like, OK, this is what chef needs and just being like, how
do I make it as easy as possible for this person to succeed?
Like that's a skill set in and of itself.
Like it doesn't make you lesser because you're like the person
opening up the delis, dude, who cares?
Like, do you need the team to win or not?
And like, it's, it's super important.
Yeah. Like, and every kitchen is
different, of course. Like every chef has, has their
own tendencies, but just a willingness to to be able to to
learn things in the way that that you were taught and how
will make you successful. Like, you don't know it in the
moment. It's like you have to look back
and just be like, oh, I learned all these skill sets and now I
can apply them in the ways in which I need to.
Yeah, as we're talking, I'm thinking back to, you know, when
I was still still active chef and, you know, I would have like
someone that was my direct report, like a sous chef or chef
de cuisine. And they're plating at the pass
and I happen to pop in. I'm not running service, but I
happen to be there. They're running service.
So when I step in and I see them and I see that, you know,
they're, they're saucing and the spoon is dirty.
And, you know, I'll hand them the tray, put it there and then
I'll dip it in the Bane or whatever.
Or I noticed that and here's the plate wipe shaft.
And and they're not asking me for this.
And it's not that I'm viewing this as some things like, oh,
I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm doing helper work.
No, no, that's, that's part of the, that's part of the game.
Like, hey, I want to be handing you the plate wipe because I, I
saw you look at it and you're going to need it in about 5
seconds and I'm going to have it ready for you because we're
thinking about the same things. Yeah, there's there's something
beautiful about that ability to work with someone at a very high
level. And if you could just look out
like if you could just step outside of yourself and look at
the entire thing, like it's not that somebody's putting a couple
of herbs on the dish. Is that like somebody warms a
plate, it says somebody passes the sauce, says somebody slices
the bread, like it all comes together.
And so if you, if you look at all those touches, all those
steps of service, you can be a part of it.
It doesn't matter. Like you're all a part of it.
And, and, and the guest doesn't know, they don't care.
Actually, I'm like, they're like, they're just getting
something in front of them and, and which is completely fine.
Like that's, that's the mysticism that I, that I enjoy
about it. I don't want them to think about
any of that. I just want them to be there.
I want to create an opportunity for people to be there with one
another and just enjoy each other's company.
How do you train that in cooks? I just think you have to care,
dude. Like it's and it's, I think of
it as such a personal thing. And that, that goes back to like
me growing up, you know, in Albania, like it's, this is a
really difficult one for me. Like I think it's probably the,
the thing that I struggle with most because I'm so passionate
about it. And like, I think that I've
always kind of had this desire, like to just be the best at
whatever it is that I'm doing. Like, I don't care if I'm a
plumber, I'm just going to try to be the best that I can at it.
But like, I think the, the way that you train people in that is
trying to get them to understand what their actions end up.
Like what is the causation of you taking these actions over a
long period of time? You know, you can work in a
restaurant where everybody is just, you know, doggy dog and
you don't have a good relationship with the people
that you are working with. But like the moment that you
start seeing that, like you do 1 little thing for for your
teammate and then it makes them feel this way and they
reciprocate it. Like you just have a better
working environment. And these, I mean, you're
working with these people 607080 hours a week.
You might as well enjoy, enjoy that.
So I think like getting people to understand from the beginning
that like they're the choices that they're making, that
they're making have impact on other people's lives, I think
we'll make them think twice about the way that they're
behaving. And I think, at least for me,
the great thing about the Russians that I've worked at,
it's like everybody was so much about the same outcome that
like, if you weren't, you would just be ostracized.
Like the rest of the team would just not jive with you.
Like it'd be very clear that we we don't gel together.
We don't think about the same stuff.
Well, it's interesting because, you know, and what I do, I talk
to a lot of chefs and cooks. And a lot of times when you're a
young cook, you don't understand.
Why does no one like me here? Yeah.
You think everyone hates you because, you know, for whatever
reason, you think of all these reasons that they don't like
you, but the main reason is because you're not good.
That's that's the main reason. It's not all these other reasons
that you think they don't like you.
It's that they depend on you to do a certain task and when you
don't deliver it, they have to pick up the slack.
And, and I just, and, and I wish that more people knew that, like
if you don't have the skill set, if you just had a fucking great
attitude, dude, Like I'm, I never went to culinary school.
I literally just was willing to be there at all times.
Like whatever you need, I'll be there at all times, you know,
and like, that's the other part of where it's like, it's not, we
don't like you because we, we see that chef told you to slice
this thing with, with your knife to this thickness and I see you
using a mandolin, fucking hacking through this thing.
Like, I know, I know you're pressed for time like me too.
Like you're, you're either going to have a shit day, you're going
to go home and, and you know, have pain and reflection and
then come back the next day and try to do it differently or, or
you're not like you're just going to be like, no, well, I
just want to be able to do this way.
OK, well, you can't. I don't.
I don't know what you're going
to say. Like there's a standard and we
all have to, like, we have to uphold that standard.
Yeah. And something else that you know
for for young cooks listening that maybe you are in a position
where your skill set doesn't match the rest of the team.
You're at a you're at a lower skill set.
There's things that you can do. You could fold everyone's
towels. You could make sure everyone has
plate wipes. You could make sure the walk
in's clean. You could do some of those
things that they don't want to do right.
You could, you could say, hey, look, sorry about this.
I'm going to take care of your station tonight.
I'm going to hear all your labels, whatever.
Like there's little things that you could do that don't
necessarily require skill, but would be emotional investments
in them. Like, hey, you know what?
They're not such, they're not such a shit head.
Like they cleaned my station for me.
They they made sure the walk in was tight, whatever, right?
But in But instead, a lot of times cooks get frustrated
because they went to culinary school or they have some
understanding or they have some experience and they think I am
good. And then they get around a bunch
of people that are on a higher level than them, better than
them, And then they think, well, you shouldn't be treating me
like this because I'm good. Like you got to be good here.
You never arrive like it's you're never there, dude.
Like there's always I'm, I'm telling you that there's levels
to this shit like in every capacity, there's levels to this
thing. Like, and you should also know
that if you're at the bottom of the totem pole, like that is a
very good thing. Like that means that there's a
really big gap from where you are and where you want to be and
that you have a lot of room to grow there.
Like once you work every station and then you become a sous chef
and then you, you take care of the AM team and you know how to
do that. And like you can look around you
and maybe the CDC position is taken or the exact like once you
once you hit a wall, it, it becomes like the gap closes
between like you and the other two chefs and then the CDC and
the head chef. Like there's still a gap, but
that that closes not quite as big.
And maybe at that point it might be time for you to move on.
If you can look in in the future, a couple of years and
you're like, none of these people are leaving.
Like I'm not going to be learning anything else while I'm
here. Like I kind of know how to
operate at this level. If that's what you want to do.
Some people stay places for eight years and and if that's
what you want to do, like do it. But I think people should know,
especially if you're a young cook, like if you're in a
position where you're like, dude, like I'm at the bottom of
the totem pole here. That's a great position to be
in, even if you're in business. Like I had to like I had to join
an entrepreneurial organization because I'm just like, OK, I
know a lot about cooking, but I don't know a lot about how to
run a business. Like I was a sous chef at
whatever, a mission star restaurant, which is cool.
And there's, you know, that there was a lot that I took from
that into like how to do my business.
But all of a sudden, like now you have to learn everything
else about the business. And when I look at the
structure, even if it's, you know, your, your classical
kitchen structure, you're like, why is there an executive chef?
And why is there ACDC? And like, why is the CDC in
control of all food? If you're the executive chef?
And it's like, in my mind, I'm like, OK, the executive chef is
responsible for like marketing, like getting people to be in
seats. Like that's really your job.
You're looking at at all of it. And, and like there's somebody
handling the food part and there's somebody handling the
the front of house part. But like you're there kind of
like trying to control that whole thing.
And that's also a skill set. Like you got to figure out how
do we let people know about our product and how do we get these
people to be in here? Right, right.
You bring up such a good point and, and it's actually, I was
thinking about doing a, a solo podcast on this, about the
difference in the way people view themselves and what's in
front of them 'cause you have a, a cook, the only thing that they
see is the pans and the mees in front of them.
And then maybe you have ACDP who overseas one or two cooks.
Well, they see what they see, but they also see two other
people that are supposed to help them get the job done.
The sous chef might oversee 5 people.
And so they have a little bit of a, of a greater scope.
The chef de cuisine might oversee 10 and they see
everything that's going on in the kitchen, the executive chef,
chef owner overseas, everything. They, they have a different
perspective and they're, they're viewing everything and they have
to be able to do all those jobs, but they're also doing a
different job. And that job is the is to make
sure the whole is running and they're making decisions based
on the whole, not necessarily where the cook is looking at it.
Like I'm making decisions based on my pan and my mesum plus and
so your decision making process just keeps expanding outwards.
Yeah. Hard for people to understand
that super because a lot of times when you're the cook you
think why is chef making this decision to screw me over?
It's like he's not. He or she is not making that
decision to screw you over. They're usually making a
decision on what's best for the whole.
It's yeah, I think you just have to be able to step out too.
You got to get to that point, man, where it's like you're,
you're responsible for people's livelihoods.
It is a different conversation. Like, you know, even being on a
chef podcast, I'm like, this is so much more than just cooking.
Like cooking is just like you could do this stuff with your
eyes closed at this point, right?
Like you do this thing for long enough.
It, it's not that difficult to, to, to cook at at a high level
if you work with good ingredients and use proper
technique. But dude, like you, you do
leadership stuff. I'm like, why is that such a big
thing? Like why are so many people
reach out about leadership stuff?
Because like that's a really critical skill set of trying to
get a bunch of people to see one vision and align them towards
that vision on an everyday basis.
When you're dealing with 30 different personalities and like
where they're at in their lives and the things that they need,
right? Like it's you, you have to be
that person even even when you're a cook.
Like I, I think like that's kind of like one of the blessings
that I had is that like I kind of understood that from the
beginning where I'm just like, I play a small part into this very
big thing. Whereas like I don't think a lot
of people kind of see that the moment that they're like, well,
I don't feel like I'm advancing enough or I or quickly enough
for to my own standard. Like now all of a sudden, like
you want to leave, but I'm like, you got to put in that time.
Like if you only work there for six months to a year, you get to
a certain level and then you go to the same place and then you
start at the bottom again. Like you, you might as well just
have stayed somewhere for three years and try to figure out
exactly that, that just getting your lens to be a little bit
wider, right? Leadership your, your culinary
skills get you so far, but leadership allows you to become
a force multiplier with your culinary skills.
If you're able to pass that on to a larger group where business
acumen now allows you to scale your leadership skills to
multiple, multiple restaurants or whatever.
I want to ask you about your business because it's it's an
interesting business model and not a lot of people that I've
actually, you might be the first guest I've had on the show that
kind of does what you do. Can you explain to people kind
of what your business is and what your business model is?
Yeah. So it's called Aventador.
We're essentially we're a luxury private dining company.
What that really means is like we're a moving restaurant.
We provide all plateware, glassware, silverware, linen,
napkins. We have sommeliers on a team,
mixologists on a team. So it's all-encompassing as far
as, you know, dining experience and anything food and beverage
we do. We don't really do any like
corporate catering or drop offs or, or stuff like that.
Like we'll do parties for corporate companies, but nothing
like that. So we'll do, you know, smaller
weddings that are like 80 to like 100 people very much kind
of cater towards people that are foodies, if you will, like
people that really care about their food at their wedding as
supposed to decor. Like, I'm not saying like these
people are super well off. They have it all, but I just
mean like food is really important to them.
So stuff like that. And the rest of it is, you know,
private dining in people's homes.
And so we're just doing tasting menus and.
And how did you get started doing that?
It was and you didn't have a background in that.
Right, No, no, it was, it was COVID.
I, I was, I was, I hit up my, my, my show from the Ellenia
group at the time. I was like, well, anyway, as I
was leaving the Ellenia group, I was like, I want to move to Napa
or like, you know, somewhere else and I wanted to work at
another three star place. So, you know, he set me up with
a bunch of stages. I went and staged at a bunch of
places and I got a job at, at a restaurant in, in Napa.
And then they're like cool, like in a, in a couple of months,
like you'll move out here, like, you know, etcetera, etcetera.
And so like I move back where I go back to Chicago, I'm, I'm
hanging out and COVID hits it. It just, I mean, I don't know,
like it felt weird, right? Like all of a sudden everybody's
like furloughed and, and like anybody else, I thought this
thing is just going to blow over, right.
We're just like, here, here's another whatever hoax like.
Everything. Everything's going to go back to
normal. And.
So like, but I, I got so bored, like I was just hanging out at
the house for like a week and a half and I was just used to
working 607080 hours a week. And I was like, dude, I'm, I'm
bored out of my mind. And people were like supporting
small businesses at the time. And you know, that was kind of
like the, the central focus. And so I just like started
cooking meals out of my house. I was like, look, I'll take
orders today. This is what I'm cooking.
Like on Friday or Saturday, I'll either come drop off or you can
come pick it up literally just to stay busy.
And the first week I got like 60 orders and I was like, all
right, like I did that. It did that for a couple of
weeks. It just kept growing.
It kept getting bigger. And one of my purveyors hit me
up and was like, hey, do you want to do a private event for
somebody? And I said, yes, I did that.
And I was like, well, I just made in one day what I would
otherwise make in a week. And so I kind of started
shifting that attention to doing more of those.
And it's been crazy because it's all been organic in terms of
like growth, Like people just keep coming to us like this is
the first time that I've hired somebody full time.
So you don't do any like marketing ads or anything like
that? No.
Everything is organic word of mouth.
Yeah, I just, I just hired somebody and I'm in, I'm in year
4 now. I just hired somebody to be full
time outreach salesperson. So we can start focusing on some
more like kind of global stuff, like start going in other places
of the world or just like the wedding industry and even the
country, just just doing more, more things.
So I want to ask you about your business acumen and and how you
got there because you were going from predominant cooking
positions right into predominant.
You still have to cook, but you also have to run a business now.
Everything. How much did, how much did you
know going into it and how much did you have to learn?
And what were some of the the big learnings that we could give
the audience? Like, hey, if you're going to do
this, here's some things that you might want to think about.
I would say I probably knew zero about it because I like this is
not something that I really was going to take seriously.
Like I was like, I'm doing this just in the in between.
And then at some point I, I started to see it really kind of
take off to the point where I was like, OK, now I'm
reinvesting all into the business.
Like I started out of my house and then a friend at the time
was doing something similar and he was like building out a
kitchen. So I got to work with him there
and you don't pay partial rent and blah, blah.
He helped me out a lot in the beginning there until I like, I
literally just saved every dollar.
Like I was like not paying myself for the first few years.
Like I don't, I don't even care about money like that.
Like, not to say I really love investing, like I love playing
the game, but like, as far as like me, like I wasn't even
paying myself on like I just want to keep playing this game.
So I was just taking all that money buying, you know,
plateware, glassware, silverware, saved all the money
to, you know, buy, buy a space built out of kitchen space.
And so like, I was just kind of guessing the entire way until I
started like I joined this entrepreneurial organization a
couple years ago because I was like, OK, man, like I don't know
enough about business. Like you.
What ends up happening is that you are a generalist in the
beginning. It, you're wearing all the hats
and you're a generalist and, and everything, whether that's
marketing or sales, like you're doing it all.
Like the first person I I hired full time was an accountant.
So like, I just need like somebody to bounce ideas about
this money thing. Like I need to kind of like
understand the cash flow of this thing, all the.
Time you pay your taxes. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
I mean, and so like I, I wish that.
I wish that if I had to do it all over again, I would have had
a Better Business plan. Like I would have known who my
avatar is. Like who am I trying to target
and just how much market cap is there?
Like how big can this thing actually get and what would it
actually take? Like I'd, I'd just at least do
like mock numbers being like realistically like how big is my
pool of people that I can actually feed into this thing
all the time? Do you enjoy this business more
than restaurant business? Yeah, 100%.
And the only reason I, I, I say that is because I get to be my
own boss, which I just man, like I, I, I think that people might
be listening to this thing and they're like, I can do that.
Like I can look at it as Instagram.
I'm telling you, like it is, it is not that like we do the stuff
on Instagram and it's beautiful and it's, and it's really great.
It's, it's awesome cooking. But do like the majority of it
is, is, is is business like you just it, it's the people
component, it's the cash component, it's the execution
component like. I'm sure there's also a big
logistics. Component there is a big yeah,
you're, you're in a different space doing a different menu
with different pairings almost. We have pretty similar staff,
but like you, you have different stuff like these.
Some of these people are contractors, some of them are
full time, right. So you're like, how?
Like, how do you get people that work with you once or twice a
week to believe in the dream the same way that the people that
are there? Yeah.
And a really scary component that people don't think about.
You can't fuck up someone's wedding.
No, dude, and it's for sure, for sure, like you're not do like
every event that we do is like a 50th birthday, like a graduation
or, or whatever. Like it's something really
important. And not to say that that's not
the same thing in restaurants, but you know, some people are
just like we're, we're going to go out to this restaurant and
spend 200 bucks and we're going to have dinner.
We'll, we'll grab a couple of sides, whatever, 1 main and have
a glass of wine or two a piece and like it'll be like 200, two,
150 bucks, whatever. Like it's not that big of a
deal. It's a Wednesday night when
people are spending 10 grand, 20 grand, 30 grand.
Like it's a, it's a different conversation.
And I will say at the same time, like, man, if I've learned
anything about like the way that wealthy people behave, I'm like
try to sell expensive products to people that have the money,
like trying to get people to be satisfied with like going to a
restaurant. They're like, the bill was $80.
I'm like, you have no fucking idea how much time and effort it
took for you to get this food in front of you.
And this restaurant is actually making like 2 to 3% in margins.
So, but still, I mean, it's, it's, it's just coming to terms
with how the actual machine works.
Like, I think you should try to have an idea and you might not
get it right the first time, but just have an idea of like, where
is this money coming from? Like how many people am I going
to need to make this thing happen?
And like, what are the logistics of it?
You know, like, and I can go really deep into that kind of
stuff because I'm such a nerd about it at this point.
But it's it, it's almost like the bigger you get, the more it
becomes like this monster in a way.
Like there was a point where I was like, OK, this thing is a
monster that like I created. They're like, I almost can't
stop. Like once you look at your
monthly bills, you're like, oh, OK, this is different than like
me cooking out of my house with my buddies.
Now you're like, I have people on salary and health insurance
and all this stuff, right? You're like, I'm responsible for
people's livelihood and like nobody cares at the end of the
day. Like you got to look at this
list and you'll be like all these bills got to get paid and
that you go from having 2 grand to 5 to 10 to 50 and you're
like, it's crazy, right? Like.
How, what are the margins like? So you, you had mentioned like
restaurant margins, sometimes you know, 1% sometimes negative,
right, depending on the restaurant you're putting money
in, you're taking no money to the bank or you're not getting
paid. How are the margins different in
in your business? From, from my, from my, my
understanding at least is like most restaurants have anywhere
between like three to 10 and that's pretty average.
And that's if you're doing like 15, like that's pretty good.
Like that's. Pretty.
Pretty, pretty solid for us. It's anywhere between like 22 to
25%. That's great.
Yeah. And like my food glass is
generally like 11%. And can you explain why that is?
Well, I get to quote UN quote charge a lot more because of how
much goes on in the back, right? Like we're not opening of a
restaurant to cook for tons of people where it's like once I
buy this product, like I have to cook it for you, all these
things are done just for you. It's personalized just for you.
You're not buying for 20 different menu items, you're
buying for what you ordered. Yeah, exactly.
And like, and it's, and it's a lot of, it's a lot of work
because OK, like I can also like I can only I might not need a
case of tomatoes, like I might not need a case of whatever.
So like I, I can't necessarily have everything delivered to me
all the time. Now I got to run to the store
also. So like once a week on Monday,
it's like I'm going to the store, I'm hand picking up a
bunch of this stuff like I don't get, you know, seafood from like
the grocery store. Like I have to go to my
prepares. And thankfully, like the whole
system is really well set up to where I like I live and work
really close to. And it's right next to like the
like the food District in Chicago where I can go pick up a
lot of this stuff, which is great.
But like, it's, it's just a totally different experience.
And like, we're only doing one of these a night.
Like not everybody can have the the experience, right?
We're not. Yeah.
I'd imagine during the holidays you probably our spread per.
We did 30 events in 23 days. Biggest month to date.
I mean just crazy and like it just didn't feel hard.
No, no. You have a good team around you,
Super. So when you're looking to hire
people to work with you specifically in this, what are
you, what are you looking for? We're looking for we, we, we
have company values, which is not like most restaurants that
are just like you've been so inundated and, and everybody's
just like, so ride a die or at least like in the kind of
restaurants that I've worked at where it's like nobody ever
talked to you about company values.
That sounds really corporate. But like the further that I've
gotten along, the more I've been like, OK, here's the actual
issue is like when you, when you when I first started, I would
just hire my friends and being like all these people I've
worked at 1-2 or three Mission Star restaurants, like they know
what's going on. They know how to do this until
you realize everybody has different systems.
So it's like now you're getting frustrated because you haven't
communicated anything to anybody.
And like you think that they're doing certain things because
they don't give a shit or whatever.
And you're just like, yeah, bro, you need to actually just like
be clear communicating. That's my issue, right?
Or, or was, and it's something that I had to like look back at.
And so like now we have very specific, you know, they have
their handbook when they come in, like we have company values
and, and most of them are fairly basic, like, you know,
hospitality, humility, preparedness is another one.
And then the last one, which is kind of the bigger one is
devotion, which is I just, this is, and this is one that we
played with a lot because you know, people, it's people, it's
just a very intense work for a lot of people.
They're just like, do you mean commitment?
Like do you mean like involvement?
And I'm like, no, I mean devotion.
Like I just, I, I need you to be all in and I need you to be all
about the things that we're doing.
And I don't mean I need you to be in all in on me or my vision.
I need you to be the kind of person that's all in on
themselves. Like I don't want to babysit and
I don't want to do any hand holding.
I need you to take personal accountability that you just
want to do a good job. Like I, I just don't care.
I don't want a pat on the back from anybody.
I don't care if I had a service and people were like, that was
the best meal of my life, which I've had people tell me that,
right? They're just like, that was
literally the best meal of my life.
I'm like, if I'm not happy with it, I'm not happy with it.
So I, I'm looking for these, I'm looking for these kind of
qualities to begin with. And then everything that's
around that is, is basically like that's how we hire, fire,
train a reward. It's just based on those things.
So like we know from the beginning, like when I'm hiring
these people, like they're meeting with three of us.
Like all like I've never used a staffing agency.
They're either people that I've personally worked with or people
that we have that have come highly recommended by somebody
else. Or even when we've done like
interviews, like if they're not trying to meet with, you know,
three people on the team and see what they all think about then
that you're not coming to hang out with us anyway.
And is your business all in Chicago?
It's primarily in Chicago. We'll do like the surrounding
states. And then we've been, you know,
starting to fly around to different places and stuff too,
but. You gotta get get on the F1.
Yeah, Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's we'll see, man.
We'll see where, where this thing takes us.
But yeah. So I'm just curious and I, and I
don't know the answers because I've only done a handful of
private catering. And what I have noticed in the
handful that I've done is that the menus that people select are
usually like, I mean, I, I always listen to a podcast.
The chef's cut shout out to to those guys.
They had Michael Anthony on from Gramercy Tavern and he was
talking about how when he took over at Gramercy, he wanted to
take off the filet mignon with the saboline onions, thinking
like, I don't want to cook this, but people revolted because
that's what they went for. That was their favorite dish.
I would imagine that it's probably not always what you
want to cook. I would say probably 95% of the
time it is. And and then I would say the
other 5% is me just being kind. You know, the, the one thing
that I will say is that like, I actually don't care that much
about feeling like I'm being creative or like I'm doing my
food. It is more important to me that
these people are really enjoying their time, but I think that
we're positioned in a way where people are looking at us as the
experts and I hold all the consultations like.
When when you're designing menus is do you have like a set menu
and you present or do you go? Is everything custom with a
guest? Everything is custom with a
guest. Like of course I'll repeat
dishes. And if it's morale season, like
I'm going to have morale season. Like put it this way, like let's
say February 17th or something, right?
Like I have an event that day and then you hit me up and say,
hey, I need something for February 18th.
I'm going to try to give you that menu if it aligns right and
if you say no, but that's completely fine, then we'll do
something different. But like I'll I'll try to use
that as a way to just be like, OK, cool.
Then I can just do this menu or like at least components from
this menu two days in a row. But like I said, I host all the
consultations. So when I'm on the phone with
people, I'm just like, you know, what direction do you want us to
go in? You're like Mediterranean,
Asian, Latin flavors. Are there any do not likes?
Is there anything that you absolutely hate?
Are there things that you absolutely love?
Right. And, and people will kind of
give you a lot of this information and then basically I
tell them I'm like, look like nothing to set in stone.
I'm going to send you over a menu, take a look at it, say we
really like this, we want to make a change on that, and then
we'll work on it until we get it right.
What? What do you notice most clients
want? I.
I'm the reason I'm asking is because I think a lot of people
that want to get into your business might not know where to
begin when they start writing menus.
For sure. I think for me it's it's just
about having a little bit of a progression, right.
So like IIA, lot of my background is in French,
Japanese Mediterranean. So like I, I, I really like that
flavour profile, but that doesn't mean that we're not
doing Latin flavours or Asian etcetera like I want it to be.
I want them to have a variety or I guess enough of a variety.
So usually we're doing anywhere between like 5 to 7 courses.
And if they want more like 810, like we'll do that as well.
And obviously like that all changes on how large all the
bites are or how much they get per course.
But I love doing something like a crudo by a vegetable by like a
pasta or a grain by, you know, a main protein dish and then
dessert, right? So what percentage of the, of
the events that are you're that you're doing are, are plated,
coursed out dinners versus, you know, maybe they just want
family style or a buffet or something like that.
I'd say yeah, 95% of them are all tasty menus.
And sometimes that's actually good.
Yeah, yeah, sometimes they want to do family style and then like
I think they think that it'll be easier, but it's not easier
'cause now I got to bring all the plates plus the platters
plus the utensils and we're changing silverware in plates
and, and, and we're, and we're changing silverware in between
every course, right? Like we're, we're flipping
constantly. So and like there's literally
somebody like washing dishes the entire time, right?
Like it's, it's really like a, a whole operation.
Like we're not doing rentals. Like we bring the stuff, right?
Like we work with local corymicis that we have a lot of
beautiful plate wear all Rito glassware, right?
Like working with level 2-3 sommeliers, like.
And so yeah, I think their that their experience is like they,
they know that and the way that we're positioned.
So the majority of the time, like I'm almost never revising a
menu. Like I kind of just shoot them
something the first time they might say something like we
don't like duck, fine. Like do the chicken, the beef,
whatever it is. Like these things are fairly
interchangeable. I'm also at a point and you
know, I'm not not saying that people should be like this.
Like it's it's probably better if you do write a bunch of this
stuff down. But like I'm not really cooking
with recipes like because I'm so heavily involved.
Like I was just with Ron, like we just did this popping
together. Like we don't use recipes.
We're like, we're talking about that like.
You just not a cook. You just not a cook.
And when you're a small team like that and not a cook?
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. There's three of us.
We're doing it all the time. Like there's repeat kind of
menus and I, I got my eyes on everything.
It's just, it's a little bit different.
But you know, for the people that are listening and, and
they're trying to do this thing, like, I mean, just just shoot
your shot, like send over a menu, see if they like it and if
they don't like change it. I think, you know, my my take on
recipes is the further out you go with people, the more you
need recipes. The tighter it is, the the less
you need, especially depending on how involved you are.
And even, I mean, sometimes I might need a recipe because I
want it to come out exactly the same way.
But for the most part, when you're just cooking, you're just
cooking. Yeah, interesting.
Your business is really fascinating for me because I
like, I don't, I never lived in that world.
But it seems, it seems like a lot of fun is if someone was
getting into the business and they were relatively new and you
said, hey, before you go on any event, here's some contingencies
that you always have to have before you go to any event.
What are some of those contingencies that you built?
Yeah, you, you got to have a contract.
Just just just have the contract.
Make sure that people are always signing the contract you.
Ask for half upfront or anything like.
That we, we do, we do a a 25% down payment.
The rest of it is due four days before.
No, yeah, four days before and don't just just don't go like if
and, and I've never had to do this.
Like fingers crossed. Like thankfully, like I would
say 100% of my clients have been really amazing.
And I've been very fortunate in that way.
But like, I've heard plenty of horror stories, like have a
contract just, you know, years ago, like I had to pay somebody
to do all this stuff for me. Like now you can have Chad GBT
do it or whatever, but the other thing is to have them send you
pictures of what you're cooking out of like their kitchens.
And the majority of the time, these people have beautiful
kitchens that they've never cooked out of.
Like you turn on the oven that you smell that it's never been
used, you know, but it's good for them to send you pictures.
And the reason I started having people do that is because like
I, I went to an affluent neighborhood in Chicago to do a
dinner one time, but it's just like a historic neighborhood.
So like you actually can't get permits to like make a lot of
changes. So in my mind, I'm thinking
they're probably going to have a beautiful space.
I go there. She lives in this high rise that
doesn't have a hood, super old, just smoked her house out, You
know what I mean? Like this.
And so just stuff like that, like always have a contract.
Always be very clear on the contract.
If there's if there's anything in the beginning of the quote UN
quote sale, like, you know, for me, it's not really a sale.
I'm just having a conversation with somebody.
But if there's anything that you think will blow up later, do
just say it now. Like you, you don't want to show
up and they thought that you had these terms and all of a sudden
you have these different terms like say it right, right in the
beginning. Do you go in with a lot of like
soup eater precision cooking to like a like a lot of the pre
work done, assuming you're going sauces are made, purees are
done, heat up, maybe finish some meat and go Yep, Yep.
Yep, at this point, like because I have my own kitchen, so like
it's just like prep in a regular restaurant, except I pack it up
and I just show up there and, and I just set up my station and
I just run service 10 top 12 Top 14 top whatever it is.
Like I think if I'm good at anything, it's like the
operational side of, of that sort of thing.
And again, like I've been cooking for so long that I have
a really good base of fundamental cooking to where now
I can like do stuff like sous video and whatever like.
And those things are really helpful, super helpful.
Like you just, you can either have the meat rest for 20-30
minutes or you can have a rest for 6 minutes like because you
already did the circulation of it.
So these tools are just just there for, for, for you to use.
But I, yeah, I think if, if you're, if you're somebody
that's just starting, dude, the other part of it, man, dude,
just just spend the money on the labor.
Like in the beginning, I would do crazy stuff, do like an 8 top
by myself. And now you're like cleaning all
the dishes you're doing. All of a sudden you just pay for
it. They'll have a better time to
like there. There's somebody out there that
just like loves to be a front of house person and just like do
all these touches and like and just having somebody there.
That's the other part of it is, is definitely just use, use the
labour. I think you know what the point
that I'm at now, like it's, it's so big that I'm just dealing
with a really big numbers to where like, you know, your
decisions matter a little bit more.
But even when you don't have a lot of it, like do that, you
don't have that much to lose. Like that's the other part of
where I'm like, just use it like try to like if I, if I could
start over again, like I would just pump way more money into
this thing way faster because I just know so much about the
things that would work, you know, but a part of it is just
you. You got to be able to make that
investment. It's not about the money.
Like you have to understand, it's not about the money.
Like the money will come you, you have to obsess about the
client experience. You're like, how how good of a
time is this person really having?
Like if you the other, the other thing is right when people hit
me up all the time, they're like, how do you get clientele?
I'm like, well, thankfully I've been blessed enough to where a
lot of this comes before me and I have a really awesome resume
that people can trust and we get tons of referrals.
Like especially because, you know, one person hired you,
there's nine other people there. Like they all get to try your
product first hand. But the other part of it, if
you're just starting out, do hit up everybody that you know, like
you're a third grade teacher. I don't care, Everybody that you
know, and just say, look like I'll cook for you for like 30
bucks a person. Like, and all I want from you is
for you to leave me a review at the end of it or tell me what I
could have done better. Like you need reps You just, you
just need to do it. Like, and, and, and that's it.
I'm like, start there. And then once, once these people
get in, they reach out to you next time.
Like now it's 50 bucks a person. Now it's 100 bucks a person.
Now it's $500 a person, right? Like it's just, it's just a
different experience. You're like, I, I go to these
restaurants like I know what it's like to spend a couple
grand on dinner and you're like, this is fucking crazy.
Like people will do that for you, like you, you just have to,
you have to believe in the fact that somebody out there can
spend 10 grand on dinner and they just don't care.
Like it's just nothing to them like so, but they do.
You know what these people do expect?
They're my favorite people to work with because they're just
like, I trust you, handle everything.
Fucking don't bother me about nothing.
But you have to be the kind of person that can actually let
them do that. You have to be able to to figure
all the rest of the stuff out to work they.
Expect to not worry. Exactly right.
Like they can like something that we say a lot within our
messaging is like you can be a guest at your own party.
And, and it's true. Like we have clients that are
just he's like, he's like, yo, like I'm going to be like 10
minutes late, like I'm just getting off the private jet
because that because that's the life that they live.
Like he just flew in from Mexico.
Like he just landed and he's being brought to his home and he
has a couple of people that he's like eating dinner with that
night. That guy doesn't have time to
figure out like any of this stuff.
Like don't bother these people like you, you're the
professional. You have to own the fact that
you're, you're the professional. You you've got to know all these
things. Chef, as we get closer to
wrapping up the show, I have like some standard questions
that I want to ask you. So if you if you're in your
kitchen, yeah. What what is everyone using for
tape? Is it the green tape or is?
It the blue we use, we use green tape, but I think that's
partially just because of like company colours, I guess the
blue tape, like I think I always use the blue tape.
Sometimes it would be too dark and you're like, I can't fucking
see this thing. And it depends on the Russians
that we worked at. Some of them we use white, some
blue, some green. But currently.
Currently we're using green. What about?
What about your all-purpose workhorse salt?
I mean, I feel like like diamond salt is is solid, right?
Like just classic, like I, I like it.
I I don't like it to be super fine.
I think that's that's a little too much.
But then I'm not going to like use super crunchy, flaky sea
salt all the time. Like sometimes I see fucking
like Adam Biet do it right and he's just like seasoning with
just straight up sea salt. I'm like that fucking bad ass.
I'm like this guy, like he's got, he's got.
Like the Super fine sea salt or no no.
No, like the like Malden, like just straight up like giant
crystals. Like he's using it for
everything. Like, Oh my God, it's fucking
bad ass because this guy's got bread like that.
Yeah, but. What do you use for finishing?
Murray River, yeah. What about do you have a general
finishing acid that you use? Is it lemon as a vinegar?
As a type of vinegar. I would say it's probably
vinegar. It's like we work with a company
called Rare Tea Seller. What's the name of him?
Rare Tea Seller? Rare Tea?
Yeah. Yeah, His name is Rod Marcus and
just has incredible infused vinegar.
So like literally anything that you could want.
I'm telling you, like this guy, he's the guy.
Yeah. I mean, I think it, it depends
on what it is, right. But like for darker sauce and
stuff like that, like Sherry's like that kind of thing, it
depends on how you started the sauce as well, right?
Like did you start it with a with a vinegar or was it a wine
or whatever, right. Like, so trying to keep it
adjacent like that. I wouldn't say that I have like
a go to, you know, just depends on what the dish is.
Got it. And if if you had something that
you do in the kitchen that you think could make people's food
better that a lot of people don't do, like is there a
certain technique or is there, is there something that you
always when you meet new cooks like, hey, let me let me save
you a bunch of time. This will make your food or your
life easier. I don't know that it has so much
to do around food as opposed to like cleanliness and
organization. Do I just I like I you just got
to be the kind of person that's so fucking bothered by anything
not being square and like, you know, and like, and I've always
been that way and start twitching.
I do, man. I just, I just, I just needed to
be tight. Like, you know, like the station
just has to look a certain way. And my favorite part about
working in some of these restaurants is that like at
every hour, like you just stop and do a line scrub.
Like it just, it just looks good.
Like I can't sweep the floor and do like I don't like every time
I drop something on the floor, I'm like, I have to pick it up
right now. Like I don't want to wait 30
minutes later. So to me, like that's, that's
everything. Just just be clean like work.
And you know, this is a multitasking kind of job, like
in a way like you have to do a lot of, you have to keep at a
lot of things, but like your, your, your stuff has to stay
clean and then otherwise gets way too crowded.
If if you had a Mount Rushmore 4 chefs that deserve to be on
Mount Rushmore, who are the four chefs that to you and should be
out there? That's like the hardest question
of all time. I'm like, who are yours?
It's like it's. Mind change like I'll I'll say
one thing that ask me, ask me next week and it's going to
change. Man, that's so tough.
I mean, I feel like you have to give credit to people like
Bokus, right? Like, yeah, OK, So like I'd, I'd
go with that. I don't, I just don't want to be
all French chefs. So that's so that's it's.
Your personal. One, No, I know I'm like chefs
that I really like probably over the last like 10 years, I think
I've really liked like Sean Brock just does amazing stuff as
far as like the US places that I also really wanted to work at.
Like those are the kind of things that I'm thinking about.
I'm thinking about like David Kinch, like memories of like I
was like, dude, I would have given an arm to have worked
there if I could do life over, like I probably would have gone
to work there. And then maybe like Mario Cola,
Greco at Mirazor, like that was just, again, another place that
I would love to have worked at. And as I as I'm thinking about
it, like all they all have the same thing in common.
Like they just put the ingredients first.
Yeah. It's it's all about that.
And all their food is generally fairly simplistic and not none
of it feels like the art got in the way.
Yeah, yeah. Last question, chef, if you in
your kitchen when you're running it, is it a herd or is it a yes
chef or a Wii chef? What's?
I think, I think we could just say, we could just say herd like
I like, I like the yes chef thing.
It doesn't have to be, I say it, but you know, I don't think that
it needs to be as serious. But again, like going back to my
thing of like, I don't like to micromanage or anything like
that. Like, I think as long as we have
a good understanding of, of what this is like, I don't need you
to call me chef, but I, I do want you to understand like that
this is what this job is so. Well, awesome brother, where can
people find you? All over social media, our
Instagram is a is a great place that we're super active in all
the time or TikTok, Aventador Chicago or aventador.com if you
want to just kind of see how this thing works in general.
And then we do have like chef mentorship, like if you guys
just want to hit me up on Instagram, like I, I respond,
I'm the one responding to all DMS and all the comments and
stuff. So.
Yeah, I appreciate it, you giving people a peek behind the
curtain of what you do. Please.
Yeah. I, I love to see it, man.
It's, you know, sometimes I, sometimes people are like asking
questions that they know the answer to, but just want
somebody to validate it. And I just wish that I could
give more empowerment to those people and just be like, you
just just take a chance. Like, life is risky.
It's so risky that you're not getting out of here alive.
So, like, just fucking go for it, yeah.
Awesome brother. Thank you.
Well, I hope you enjoyed the
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