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Hello chefs, you're listening to
chefs, PS a podcast on today's 

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podcast. 
We're going to talk about 

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technique versus creativity when
I'm hiring a cook. 

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Which one do I deem more 
important? 

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What do I think? 
Is more important for a chef? 

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And at the end of this, I'll 
give you my process when I'm 

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trying to be creative and what I
do to get into the zone. 

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So first, let's talk about 
technique and when it comes to 

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technique, I do feel that 
technique is superior to 

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creativity for the majority of 
your career and probably for 

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about 90% of the jobs out there,
and I'll tell you why. 

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Because when it comes to 
creativity, either have it or 

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you don't, a lot of people are 
born with natural creativity. 

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There's ways that you could 
boost up your creativity but 

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techniques and proper technique 
can get you very far through. 

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Your career to a very high 
level, even if you don't have 

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creativity to go with it. 
So if you don't have creativity,

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you could always fall back on 
technique and as a chef and what

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I use to hire people, you know, 
the truth of the matter is 

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you're not going to get your 
dish on the menu right away 

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especially when you're right out
of culinary school, like let me 

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be honest no Chef is like going 
to. 

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They're very green culinary 
school students and saying you 

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know what, what dish ideas that 
you have, let me see your 

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creative food. 
The fact of the matter is that 

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doesn't happen, but what they 
need. 

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From a cook when they're just 
starting out. 

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As what, are your technical 
skills? 

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Do you know how to dice? 
Do you know how to brunoise? 

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How are your knife skills? 
You know how to set up a proper 

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station? 
Do you know how to saute? 

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Do you know how to braise and 
all the other cooking techniques

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that go with it? 
And that is what I look for. 

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When I'm hiring someone is, do 
you have a strong grasp on the 

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fundamentals? 
Which I deem more important than

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creativity when you're the head 
chef for the sous, chef for the 

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chef de cuisine. 
Whoever is really riding the 

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menu. 
The last thing that you need 

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really is a Person that's going 
to take a spin or R if your food

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and not do it the way that you 
want it. 

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So sometimes creativity can be a
double-edged sword when you're 

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not in a position that allows 
you to be creative. 

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But you know is unfortunate 
because it does push a lot of 

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creative types out of the 
industry. 

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When it's it's like equivalent 
to you know you have all these 

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great ideas and you you of what 
you want to do with your art but

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you don't yet know how to paint.
So it could be discouraging 

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early on in your career when 
you're not allowed to express 

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your creativity, but the fact of
the matter is and Fact of the 

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matter remains that when you're 
a chef you're looking for people

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that can execute your vision and
your creativity. 

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That's you know, you've worked 
all these years. 

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You finally made it to a place 
where you're able to put your 

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ideas forward and and create 
your own food. 

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And unfortunately the last thing
that you need is someone 

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changing a dish. 
When you're not looking, which 

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by the way, is like, in my 
opinion is like a huge culinary 

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sin. 
You should never change your 

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chefs dish. 
The only person that should 

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change the chef's dishes, too. 
Have. 

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So that's, that's always been a 
rule that I've had in. 

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The kitchen, is no one changes, 
the chefs dish, but the chef 

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that is like culinary 101 
because you put a lot of effort 

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into a dish designing a menu. 
And it's like a huge slap in the

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face when someone comes in and 
says, oh, I could probably do 

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that better than that. 
Chef. 

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Let me, let me change it up 
because I have all these really 

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good ideas. 
And it's like coming from a 

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place of ego because the chef 
needs to be able to put his food

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out for guests. 
They want to come back and make 

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sure that they're getting the 
same dish and if it's different 

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every time it's like, well, it 
hurts the reputation of the 

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restaurant or hurts the 
reputation of the chef. 

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It's going to hurt business. 
All because someone wanted to be

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creative and take creative 
freedoms with with another chefs

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dish. 
So people, if you're listening 

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to this, if you're not the chef,
you should never change a chefs 

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dish without speaking to them 
first. 

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And I'm not saying you can't do 
it, but you should always The 

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conversation. 
First, you need to go up to the 

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shelf and say, I think this 
might work better. 

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I think this would work. 
Would you mind if we try it? 

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And the answer might be, no, get
back on your station or the 

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answer might be, you know what, 
that's a good idea. 

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Let's discuss it. 
And look at it, it all depends 

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on where you work in the type of
Chef that you're working for. 

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But as a general rule, never 
change your chefs dish without 

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asking. 
But anyway, so let's talk about 

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technique for a little bit. 
Why do I think technique is 

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important? 
Well, because if you have solid 

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technique and there's a wide 
range of skill levels of 

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techniques, like, if you go to 
like a three-michelin-star 

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restaurant, the brunoise is 
perfect. 

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You know, where their brune wine
tarragon and, you know, the sear

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on the fish is perfect, and the 
pasta is cooked perfectly. 

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Like, there's a high level of 
technique, and when you have a 

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high level of technique, you 
could really go work anywhere. 

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You could be a sous chef 
anywhere because, you know, that

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you're confident in whatever, 
whatever realm of cooking that. 

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Puts you in. 
But if you have a low level 

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technique, it's only going to 
take you to a certain a certain 

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level of position of restaurant 
that you want to work in. 

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So I would focus early on in my 
career is really Master the 

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fundamentals of cooking. 
Really master your Technique the

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way that Trends change, you 
could look at an Instagram feed 

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and you could look at food from 
five years ago. 

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And then look at you from a 
great chef and then you can look

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at their food today and you'll 
say, wow, it's unrecognizable, I

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wouldn't I wouldn't do that. 
That now and that's because 

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Trends evolve. 
So rapidly plating Trends, the 

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ingredients that people are 
using it changes. 

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I mean, you I've seen Instagram 
trends like I don't know if 

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everyone remembers like there 
was this like a stamp where you 

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use like at the bottom of a cup 
and it would make this like 

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beautiful, you know, stamp. 
And then it was the comb and 

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then it was the paintbrush and 
then it was the spiral. 

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And you know, all these things 
evolve And regardless of what 

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the trend is or the creative 
plating, like what doesn't 

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evolve? 
Well, I shouldn't say it doesn't

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evolve, but it involves much 
slower as the technique. 

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And here's, here's something 
when it comes to cooking 

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techniques, like let's just say,
for the sake of this 

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conversation, thousand years 
ago, people are cooking with 

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fire water. 
That's pretty much it right? 

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So they're boiling things in 
there, cooking things over Fire 

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fast forward. 
You know thousand years later, 

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we're boiling things Cooking 
things over fire, does it really

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change that much where you saw a
great evolution in technique was

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I'd say probably the early 2000s
when Ferran Adria came out and 

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he started cooking things 
differently. 

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He started approaching food 
differently, you now we're 

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working with liquid nitrogen, no
one was working with liquid 

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nitrogen 50 years ago in The 
Culinary world. 

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You know. 
We're cooking sous vide we're 

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using anti griddles we're using 
alginates food for the first 

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time since you know No, the dawn
of cooking, with fire and water.

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Saw this great jump in, 
technique, creativity and 

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evolution. 
So that was like a pivotal 

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moment in time. 
I would say like the next big 

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thing was when Rene redzepi 
started doing all the forging 

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and fermentation and not that, 
that hasn't been around, but it 

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wasn't ubiquitous. 
And now you see it? 

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Pretty much at any top 
restaurants, they're doing some 

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form of foraging or fermenting 
or even even if they're not 

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foraging and they're just saying
To get more sales or to add to 

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The Narrative of the restaurant.
But the fact of the matter is 

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that now you see the more 
advanced techniques that you 

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would see, like, in a obscure, 
world's 50 best or three 

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Michelin star restaurant. 
You see it like in your 

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neighborhood restaurant. 
There fermenting just like, just

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like Renee there. 
Hopefully, they got everyone's 

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going to have reindeer dick on 
their salad soon, you know, 

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according to Rene redzepi or I'm
sorry, it's in his new book if 

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you don't get the joke. 
But anyway, long story short, I 

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focus on technique when I was 
opening up a hotel, a couple of 

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years back and we were delayed. 
So I had all these culinary 

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people on my team, all these 
culinarians and we had about a 

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month to get ready for opening, 
but the building we couldn't get

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in it. 
So I had everyone on board. 

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What am I going to do with them?
I said well I'm going to run it 

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like a culinary school and what 
I did every day is every day. 

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We're going to brunoise and 
we're going to do it again 

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tomorrow. 
We're going to learn how to 

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tornado. 
We're going to brunoise. 

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We're going to learn how to cut.
Chives perfectly working to make

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French omelette. 
And I really just focused on 

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making sure that they knew how 
to work in that they had really 

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strong fundamentals, and 
technique and fast forward that 

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to a couple months later when we
opened, we opened up strong, all

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my Cooks were good and I would 
say, I remember having this 

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conversation, with one of my, 
with one of my Cooks, shout out 

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to Lauren Pogue. 
If you're listening and I 

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remember having a conversation 
with her, she was a culinary 

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student that the time. 
And I said, when you're done, 

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Done with working here and the 
training within a couple of 

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months, she was still a student.
I said before before, we're done

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your knife skills will be better
than your instructors. 

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And so, months later, I went 
back to her and asked her. 

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I said, hey remember, I told you
this and she said, yes, I said. 

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I'm so how are your knife skills
compared to your instructors? 

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And she said, yeah, they're 
better than them. 

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They're asking me how I do it. 
So, anyway, point being is like 

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technique will carry you very 
far in your career, but now, 

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let's talk about creativity. 
And when it comes to creativity,

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like I said not everyone has it.
So if you don't have it you 

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could always fall back on your 
Technique but true creativity. 

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You know, I would argue that 
almost everything is not really 

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original, you know it's some 
form or fashion of something 

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that's already been done. 
You know the Chinese did it, the

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French did at the Italians, did 
it someone's already done it and

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usually chefs are saying oh I'm 
putting my spin on something. 

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It's like well you're not 
putting that big of a spin on 

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it, you're just taking ideas 
from other cultures that have 

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been invented. 
I haven't really seen Chef's 

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come up with something original 
that doesn't exist the way they 

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combine. 
It might be original but you 

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know the the fundamental 
techniques are not. 

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And I would say the the only two
chefs I could think of and I'm 

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not knocking any chefs, but I'm 
I could only think of two that I

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don't think they stole from 
anybody because all Chef steal. 

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Like, you know, I did a PSA once
like if you're going to steal 

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the dish, you know, make sure 
that they're not next door to 

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you, or make sure your Chef 
doesn't have the same cookbook 

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where you stole the dish because
the The matter is all chefs, get

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inspiration, there's nothing 
wrong with it, we all do it. 

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But there's two chefs that I 
could think of that. 

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I don't think that they stole 
from anybody or got inspired by 

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anyone. 
I shouldn't say stole because I 

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don't mean it in a negative way 
but Ferran Adria, you know, El 

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bulli I don't think he got 
inspired by another Chef. 

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I think all those ideas were 
original that like to me that is

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true creativity like you can't 
pinpoint where they got there. 

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Ideas from and it's completely 
original and he set the trend 

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for so many other chefs to 
follow. 

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You know, Grant Achatz Wylie, 
Dufresne, you started to see all

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these types of restaurants 
pop-up, even even me I mean back

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in 2006 I was in California and 
we had a restaurant that was, 

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you know, doing the bubble food.
I like to call it, you know, the

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Foams and that you know the 
Spheres and whatnot and I wanted

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to be the first chef in 
California to do it and you 

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know, I was like I'm going to 
get some some clout copying food

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directly out of LA. 
Lead 2003 or whatever version I 

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had of it. 
But the fact of the matter is 

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like everyone was stealing or 
borrowing from Ferran and the 

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00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:32,800
second Chef I would say that was
completely original that I had 

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00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:37,800
never seen this style before 
would probably be Rene redzepi. 

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00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:44,300
You know I like to talk trash on
his reindeer salad but all jokes

228
00:11:44,300 --> 00:11:49,100
aside the guy's brilliant and no
one else was doing the foraging 

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00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:52,100
for men. 
Eating food on the level that he

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was doing. 
I would say, like, to me. 

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That was true creativity. 
I never seen anyone do food on 

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that level until he did it and 
then everyone did it. 

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00:12:02,100 --> 00:12:04,400
You know, when the Noma cookbook
came out and I want to say this 

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is like maybe 2010 when the 
first book came out, I might be 

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a might, be off a little bit, 
but I remember when it came out 

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it was like, boom, everyone was 
doing, you know, that sort of 

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Nordic style plating and you 
know, everyone had Nasturtium. 

238
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Somewhere on their menu. 
I was even growing nasturtium 

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because I thought I didn't know 
where to buy them at the time 

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and because it was such a fringe
ingredient, you couldn't really 

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find them anywhere as like well 
I went to, you know, to the to 

242
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:32,900
the store and I bought 
nasturtium seeds and I started 

243
00:12:32,900 --> 00:12:37,000
growing nasturtiums at home just
so I could. 

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So I could have some nasturtium 
somewhere. 

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So everyone wanted to be like 
Renee at the time and I was, you

246
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:43,700
know, I was no exception to 
that. 

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I highly admired the food that 
he was doing at the time but to 

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again back to the point that to 
me was True creativity chefs 

249
00:12:50,700 --> 00:12:54,300
that we're not borrowing for 
anybody. 

250
00:12:54,300 --> 00:12:56,300
And you know, I would even 
actually I should go back and I 

251
00:12:56,308 --> 00:12:59,200
should say you know what Thomas 
Keller was doing when he first 

252
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opened up the French Laundry and
the salmon cornets. 

253
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And the oysters and Pearls like 
no one was playing with food the

254
00:13:04,700 --> 00:13:08,900
way he was at the time. 
You know, you see these these 

255
00:13:08,900 --> 00:13:11,200
great chefs, you know, the 
Thomas Keller's the Charlie 

256
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,700
Trotter's. 
The Ferran Adria as you know, 

257
00:13:14,700 --> 00:13:18,200
the Rene redzepi 's and what's 
amazing about them and their 

258
00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:23,000
creativity is When they move 
everyone moves and so they have 

259
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:24,600
a they have a huge 
responsibility. 

260
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:27,800
It's like having anything that 
they say is a loaded weapon, 

261
00:13:27,800 --> 00:13:29,800
they put out a cookbook and they
say this is great. 

262
00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:32,400
Then everyone's going to do it. 
Trust me every every single sous

263
00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,300
chef in the wrong restaurants, 
putting out food that doesn't 

264
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:37,600
belong. 
Because, you know, Renee did it 

265
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,700
or for on, did it back then or 
whoever, right? 

266
00:13:40,500 --> 00:13:45,200
So it's interesting to see how 
creativity works, but long story

267
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:49,900
short, creativity can get you. 
To a certain level of food. 

268
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:53,700
But I would caution chefs, 
especially new chefs when you 

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00:13:53,700 --> 00:13:57,100
get your restaurant to be 
careful with the creativity, my 

270
00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:00,600
rule of thumb was always 70/30 
on menus. 

271
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:05,800
So 70% of the menu was always 
dishes that I knew would sell. 

272
00:14:06,500 --> 00:14:08,500
I had to call him fastballs but 
I'm you know, I'm not talking 

273
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:11,000
about strictly fastballs but you
know, things that people could 

274
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,200
wrap their head around was about
70% of my menu, and then 30% of 

275
00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:16,700
my menu is always the 
experimental things that I 

276
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:18,300
wanted to. 
Okay. 

277
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:21,600
Let's, how are people ready for 
this, you know, in this 

278
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:25,800
particular market and a lot of 
times, you know, when the Noma 

279
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,200
book came out, I'll give you an 
example. 

280
00:14:27,700 --> 00:14:31,100
If you were doing no more food 
in the wrong market, like, I'm 

281
00:14:31,100 --> 00:14:33,600
just making this up, but if 
you're a Nebraska trying to do 

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00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:37,000
the food, that Rene redzepi is 
doing, people might not be ready

283
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,900
for that. 
So it's important that you 

284
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,900
understand your Market to, 
because, you know, I've been the

285
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:45,800
victim of that like, maybe, you 
know, trying to trying to punch 

286
00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:49,900
up and and People just aren't 
ready and then, you know, people

287
00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:52,100
think what the hell are you 
serving me or this food doesn't 

288
00:14:52,100 --> 00:14:53,900
make sense, you know, it's the 
chef's ego on a plate. 

289
00:14:53,900 --> 00:14:56,900
So by the way, going back to a 
chef's PSA that I did a while 

290
00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,700
back Cooks. 
If you're going to put a new 

291
00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:03,000
dish on the menu at that, you 
invented make sure the chef 

292
00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:07,400
doesn't have the same cookbook 
and that's because, you know, 

293
00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,100
everyone always says, oh I got 
this like Chef, I want to do my 

294
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,900
food, I want to have all these 
dish ideas and it's like, okay, 

295
00:15:12,900 --> 00:15:16,000
show me and they think that you 
don't have the same cookbook and

296
00:15:16,000 --> 00:15:18,700
it's like I have that book. 
That's not your You stole it. 

297
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:20,900
That's okay. 
Everyone does it, but don't say 

298
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:24,400
it's your dish. 
So anyway, that's just that's 

299
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,600
for people that don't think that
you're the only one in the 

300
00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,100
kitchen reading books. 
Like this is the business that 

301
00:15:30,100 --> 00:15:33,500
were in your Chef is reading the
same books that you're reading. 

302
00:15:33,700 --> 00:15:36,300
He's watching the shames. 
Same shows, you're watching her.

303
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:39,900
She and they are also following 
the same chefs that you're 

304
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:42,100
following on social media. 
So, don't be surprised when they

305
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:43,600
already know where that dish 
came from. 

306
00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:47,200
Anyway, long story short don't 
do that. 

307
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:51,200
So I'm going to wrap up, but I 
want to tell you how I would use

308
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:55,100
the creative process when I was 
a chef and I was writing menu. 

309
00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:59,900
So I've gone through several 
different methods to get 

310
00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:02,700
creative and I'm going to go 
through all of them with you. 

311
00:16:02,700 --> 00:16:05,600
Now, keep in mind a couple years
back, I was the chef of a 

312
00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,400
restaurant. 
We worry did tasting menu, so 

313
00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,100
the food had to be pretty high 
level. 

314
00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:13,100
And, you know, I was trying to 
compete to be the best 

315
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:16,000
restaurant in the city. 
So you know that type of food, 

316
00:16:16,000 --> 00:16:17,800
right? 
So you know again, Ten years 

317
00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:20,300
ago, it's tasty menu, Ferran 
Adria style. 

318
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:21,600
Everyone wants to copy him and 
Renee. 

319
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:26,200
So that's kind of where my head 
was at years later. 

320
00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,300
I think I pulled it back a 
little where I'm not doing that 

321
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:30,600
type of food again. 
Now, I'm trying to do just good 

322
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:32,900
food but not necessarily tasty 
menu style. 

323
00:16:32,900 --> 00:16:35,600
So the creative process for both
was slightly different. 

324
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:39,900
So the generic way when I need 
to get into creative zone for me

325
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:47,200
is I will usually put on like 
Classical music Bach, whatever, 

326
00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,800
something like that. 
So, are by Bach. 

327
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:53,200
I'll put that on repeat and I 
just let it go. 

328
00:16:53,200 --> 00:16:55,100
I put my headphones on. 
I'm listening to that. 

329
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:57,200
If I don't have headphones, I'm 
just listening to it. 

330
00:16:57,200 --> 00:16:58,800
You know, slightly low in the 
office. 

331
00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,900
A lot of people like to use 
binaural beats when they're 

332
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,200
studying or whatever helps put 
you in a in a brainwave state, 

333
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:13,400
which will accelerate your 
creativity and you know, if you 

334
00:17:13,400 --> 00:17:16,300
have, I Enter whatever you could
find binaural beats that will be

335
00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:18,800
good for study or creativity or 
whatever. 

336
00:17:18,800 --> 00:17:21,700
So, putting that on is good. 
I don't like to listen to music 

337
00:17:21,700 --> 00:17:24,000
with lyrics because I end up 
singing the song in my head. 

338
00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:27,900
So if I'm listening to only 
Built 4 Cuban Linx by Raekwon, I

339
00:17:27,908 --> 00:17:30,900
just, you know, I start banging 
out glaciers of ice or something

340
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:33,500
and I'm like, oh no, I need to 
be banging out recipes. 

341
00:17:33,500 --> 00:17:37,800
Not hip-hop lyrics, so no lyrics
for me, I sit down. 

342
00:17:37,900 --> 00:17:40,900
I usually sip something 
caffeinated, in my case, I'm 

343
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:42,400
usually writing menus in the 
afternoon. 

344
00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:43,900
So it's usually like a green 
tea. 

345
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:46,300
I drink coffee in the morning. 
Green tea in the afternoon, so 

346
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:48,400
I'll drink something, 
caffeinated, put my headphones 

347
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,900
on, I like to chew gum. 
I've read before, that chewing 

348
00:17:51,900 --> 00:17:57,200
gum stimulates, you mentally 
mint gum in particular is what I

349
00:17:57,208 --> 00:17:58,500
like. 
And I've also heard that 

350
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:02,800
peppermint or spearmint is good 
for creativity and memory and 

351
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:05,800
then I have this other thing 
that I do which is a recent 

352
00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,200
thing, there's these things 
called, I think they're called 

353
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:12,800
boom, boom sticks, and they're 
like scented sticks that I will,

354
00:18:12,900 --> 00:18:15,300
you know, smell and taste. 
Like there's some that smell 

355
00:18:15,300 --> 00:18:18,500
like spearmint or whatever 
cinnamon and I smell them and 

356
00:18:18,500 --> 00:18:21,000
I'd like puts my brain, okay? 
It's time to focus and the 

357
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,300
reason I have all these anchors 
is because it reminds me that, 

358
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:26,100
okay, you need to be in the 
creative Zone. 

359
00:18:26,200 --> 00:18:28,000
This is what you need to do. 
And so every time I'm doing 

360
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:29,700
that, my brain just, you know, 
it's switches. 

361
00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:32,500
Okay, you're in creative mode 
and then I just start writing 

362
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,100
ideas. 
I just I just think. 

363
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:36,300
And I just write, and I just 
think, and I just right? 

364
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:38,400
So that's what I do to get 
creative. 

365
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:43,000
Now, I've had other methods in 
the past where you might go to a

366
00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,600
museum to look, Look at 
different art. 

367
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,700
I might say, okay, I need to get
inspired by different colors. 

368
00:18:48,900 --> 00:18:52,100
So if I wanted to create a red 
dish, what would I do or a blue 

369
00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:54,100
dish? 
Or I might go by the color 

370
00:18:54,100 --> 00:18:59,500
spectrum, red orange yellow, 
green blue indigo, violet white,

371
00:18:59,500 --> 00:19:02,200
whatever, something like that. 
So I'll follow the color wheel. 

372
00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:05,200
Then I might do food. 
And again, these are things that

373
00:19:05,200 --> 00:19:08,700
I challenge myself with Jose. 
How do I do food with inverse 

374
00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:13,200
colors? 
So like purple and yellow or red

375
00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,500
and green. 
So, Let's let's make a dish of 

376
00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:18,500
inverse colors. 
Then I'll think how do I add 

377
00:19:18,500 --> 00:19:20,200
texture and contrast to the 
dish. 

378
00:19:20,200 --> 00:19:22,300
So, how do I make the dish, hot 
and cold? 

379
00:19:22,300 --> 00:19:26,100
How do I make it, you know, 
crunchy and smooth. 

380
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,800
So, I will start thinking, you 
know, some of these things is 

381
00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:32,800
there is there some sort of 
inverse correlation on the dish 

382
00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,000
that, that will make it 
interesting. 

383
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:40,000
Other things that I will think 
about is I will think about the 

384
00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:42,900
season and a lot of people will 
think, okay, you know, you know,

385
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:47,100
five seasons. 
So spraying, you know, summer 

386
00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:50,100
Indian summer fall winter. 
So if you go through the five 

387
00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:52,600
seasons and then, you know, okay
and spring we're going to morels

388
00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:54,800
and asparagus or whatever, but I
try to say, okay? 

389
00:19:54,800 --> 00:19:56,500
No. 
Let's let's get past the morals 

390
00:19:56,500 --> 00:19:58,900
and asparagus, like, what else 
is spring spring is like, 

391
00:19:59,300 --> 00:20:02,100
renewal rebirth. 
I think pastel colors like 

392
00:20:02,100 --> 00:20:04,800
Easter temperature, change 
transition. 

393
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:06,200
Okay? 
Now those are the things that 

394
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,500
are going through my mind like 
how do I create a dish? 

395
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:12,000
That will Encompass more than 
just morels and asparagus or 

396
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,200
spring lamb. 
It's like okay. 

397
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:15,300
Yeah that's that's the Obvious. 
But let's go deeper. 

398
00:20:15,300 --> 00:20:18,800
How do we go deeper and think 
about spring differently. 

399
00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,100
And then I used to challenge my 
team and this was a good 

400
00:20:22,100 --> 00:20:26,100
exercise when I would get into a
creative process with a group. 

401
00:20:26,100 --> 00:20:30,200
So let's just say there's four 
people in the group, I would say

402
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,000
everyone has to come up with 10 
dishes and and I would assign 

403
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:35,000
them all different. 
I would say. 

404
00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:39,500
Okay, you're assigned spring and
the color green, your assigned 

405
00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:44,000
spring and the color red, and 
your assigned. 

406
00:20:44,100 --> 00:20:47,900
Spring and I want you to think 
cold and hot so I would give 

407
00:20:47,900 --> 00:20:50,700
them very specific parameters 
and then they'd come back and 

408
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:54,700
say, okay these are the dishes 
that I came up with and that 

409
00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:57,400
would that would help because if
you have again let's just say 

410
00:20:57,408 --> 00:21:00,200
you have four people and maybe 
myself included. 

411
00:21:00,200 --> 00:21:02,500
So let's say it's five. 
Then at the end of it, you'd 

412
00:21:02,500 --> 00:21:04,700
have 50 dishes, right? 
If everyone just comes up with 

413
00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:06,600
ten at the end of it, you have 
fifty dishes and maybe you only 

414
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,400
need 10 for the menu. 
So we have 50 dishes and then we

415
00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:11,100
just sit in a room, it's like, 
okay, what do we think about 

416
00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:13,200
this? 
Yes, no, that would be good, but

417
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,300
let's do it with this. 
That and so we all start 

418
00:21:16,300 --> 00:21:19,000
bouncing ideas off each other. 
It was, it was really great 

419
00:21:19,000 --> 00:21:22,300
brainstorming when we would 
approach things that way. 

420
00:21:24,700 --> 00:21:26,700
And then one of the last things 
I'll talk about when I would 

421
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:29,000
think about creativity that 
would help me. 

422
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,300
And this was something that when
I just started something that I 

423
00:21:33,308 --> 00:21:35,700
learned but also started 
noticing patterns in cooking is 

424
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:37,400
like, you've heard the 
expression. 

425
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,700
If it goes together at grows 
together, that used to be on a 

426
00:21:39,708 --> 00:21:44,300
voicemail for one of The Voice. 
Gordon. 

427
00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:46,300
I should say, for one of the 
places that I worked for, they 

428
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:48,400
said, oh, Chef Andre. 
And I Tara says, if it grows 

429
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,200
together goes together as like, 
everyone's always used to 

430
00:21:51,208 --> 00:21:53,500
associate that with me. 
It was like, I didn't invent 

431
00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:54,500
that. 
I think that's been around for 

432
00:21:54,500 --> 00:21:57,600
years, but someone quoted me 
saying that somewhere, so, that,

433
00:21:57,700 --> 00:21:59,600
that became the thing. 
And every time I'd bump into a 

434
00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,300
friend. 
Oh, you're the goes together, 

435
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:04,100
grows together guys. 
Like no, I don't think that was 

436
00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:06,300
me. 
I think that was like, you know,

437
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:09,100
every Chef that came before me, 
but whatever. 

438
00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:12,000
So anyway, long story short I 
would look at dishes, so let's 

439
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,300
just take sushi, for example. 
So if you look at the seaweed in

440
00:22:16,300 --> 00:22:19,300
the sushi and then you look at 
the fish and then you look at 

441
00:22:19,308 --> 00:22:21,700
the Wasabi, like all these 
things grow in the dark. 

442
00:22:21,700 --> 00:22:25,000
So it's okay, let's try and pair
things that grow in the dark or 

443
00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,900
let's try and pair things that 
grow on bushes or let's try and 

444
00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:30,800
pair things that grow high up on
trees and the things that would 

445
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:32,400
eat. 
Those things high up in trees. 

446
00:22:32,700 --> 00:22:34,700
So I would, I would start 
thinking about that. 

447
00:22:34,700 --> 00:22:36,800
So it's like, okay, what would a
rabbit eat? 

448
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,200
And I don't really know if 
rabbits eat carrots. 

449
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:42,600
I think they do, but it's like, 
okay, if we have a rabbit dish, 

450
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,800
I imagine like a rabbit. 
Carrot and what else would they 

451
00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:46,700
have? 
You know, they might be eating 

452
00:22:46,700 --> 00:22:47,400
some lettuce. 
Okay. 

453
00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:49,900
So how do we combine that onto a
dish? 

454
00:22:49,900 --> 00:22:53,000
And then I would also sometimes 
and this is this is no longer 

455
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:54,800
relevant. 
But at one point I had an 

456
00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:58,100
exercise where every dish needed
to look like something and that 

457
00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:01,800
was like there have to be 
certain shapes on the dish. 

458
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,300
There would have to be certain 
textures and there had to be a 

459
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:05,500
focal point. 
So I'll just give you an 

460
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,000
example. 
Every dish had a main focal 

461
00:23:08,000 --> 00:23:10,500
point and that was the star of 
the dish where there was a 

462
00:23:10,508 --> 00:23:11,900
protein or vegetable or 
whatever. 

463
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,900
But let's let's just say in this
case it was Lamb for whatever 

464
00:23:15,900 --> 00:23:18,400
reason, and so it's okay. 
Lamb is the focal point and then

465
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:23,100
we needed to have to vegetables.
So let's just say that lamb had 

466
00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,300
carrots and asparagus for the 
sake of conversation, so it'd be

467
00:23:28,300 --> 00:23:30,500
like, okay, it's going to it's 
got to have carrots and those 

468
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:33,400
carrots need to be prepared, at 
least two different ways. 

469
00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:36,900
So I might do a cooked carrot 
and then I might do a carrot 

470
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:39,700
puree. 
And then the other vegetable I'd

471
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:42,100
say it needs to have a raw 
preparation and a cooked 

472
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:45,000
preparation. 
So I say okay, There might be 

473
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:50,300
like shavings of asparagus and 
there might be asparagus tips 

474
00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:52,400
that are cleaned up on the 
plate. 

475
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,200
So it's okay, we have a raw 
preparation, we have a cooked 

476
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,900
preparation, two different 
vegetables and then we need to 

477
00:23:57,900 --> 00:24:00,300
include some sort of herb. 
So we were talking about 

478
00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:02,500
nasturtiums earlier with maybe 
put some nasturtiums on the 

479
00:24:02,500 --> 00:24:04,600
plate or whatever and then it 
would have a sauce. 

480
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:07,600
So every dish had to follow this
similar format where I was like,

481
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,500
okay, two types of vegetables, 
two different preparations on 

482
00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:15,500
each vegetable and herb sauce 
and a focus and That was like, I

483
00:24:15,500 --> 00:24:18,400
picked that up from a cookbook 
and I won't say which one but 

484
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,200
actually there's probably 
several you could notice a lot 

485
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,100
of cook books that were written 
in a certain era. 

486
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:26,400
That all kind of had that 
similar style is like, okay, I'm

487
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,800
picking up and then there was 
the same shapes like circles. 

488
00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,200
So you know, shaved coins of 
carrot, radish, whatever 

489
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,500
footballs, so you know, that was
the canal or, you know, the 

490
00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,100
dollop on the plate and then 
what I used to call like 

491
00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:42,100
branches. 
So there was always like 

492
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:43,700
straight lines or branches of 
stuff. 

493
00:24:43,700 --> 00:24:45,700
So Those shapes were always on a
plate. 

494
00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:48,700
So maybe it was like the slice 
of lamb tenderloin, that would 

495
00:24:48,700 --> 00:24:52,000
look like a circle carrots that 
were sliced into coins, you 

496
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,400
know, football shaped like a 
canal of carrot puree or 

497
00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:58,200
whatever you get the idea. 
So I would check all these 

498
00:24:58,200 --> 00:25:01,300
things off. 
So, anyway, long story short, 

499
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:04,000
that was my creative process, 
that's how I did things. 

500
00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:06,700
So hopefully you could take some
of what I said. 

501
00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:08,900
If you don't have a creative 
process and may be incorporated 

502
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:13,100
into yours, Maybe not, maybe, I 
don't know, maybe you don't need

503
00:25:13,100 --> 00:25:14,000
one, maybe you're super 
creative. 

504
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:18,000
I've already anyway that's going
to be it for the show today. 

505
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:23,600
You could follow along at Chefs 
PSA on all social channels. 

506
00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:28,300
So Instagram, Twitter, Tick-Tock
YouTube. 

507
00:25:30,300 --> 00:25:33,400
If you want to support the show,
you could buy the book shelves. 

508
00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,000
PSA, how not to be the biggest 
idiot in the kitchen? 

509
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:40,100
New book, chefs, PSA culinary 
leadership fundamentals out 

510
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:42,500
soon. 
Hopefully, by next week, I 

511
00:25:42,500 --> 00:25:43,900
wrapped it up. 
I got it back from the editor. 

512
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,600
It'll be here. 
I'll announce it on social media

513
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,700
but I just want to do one final 
glance before I publish you 

514
00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:53,900
could there's in the show notes 
Here on Spotify. 

515
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:57,500
You could support the show and 
we have some merch. 

516
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,400
I have directly on my Instagram 
page. 

517
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:02,400
You can also get it on Chef 
PSA.com. 

518
00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:06,200
I'll update the merch every 
month with a new chefs, PSA 

519
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:11,100
shirt, hoodie, Etc. 
And don't forget if you're 

520
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:13,100
listening right now and you love
the show which I know you love 

521
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:15,100
the show. 
Because you keep coming back and

522
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:17,600
it's probably the best chef show
there is because I've been 

523
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,200
listening to these other Chef 
podcasts and they're not giving 

524
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,400
you what I'm giving you. 
I'm giving you the real real 

525
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:25,500
anyway. 
If you love the show, give it 

526
00:26:25,500 --> 00:26:28,600
five stars on Spotify or 
whatever platform you're using. 

527
00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:30,800
If you don't love the show, 
well, then don't give it 

528
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,900
anything. 
If you want to give someone a 

529
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:34,600
bad score, give someone else a 
bad score. 

530
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,200
I only want five stars because 
it's a five-star podcast. 

531
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,500
Anyway, thank you all and hit 
the porno music. 

532
00:26:39,500 --> 00:26:40,400
We'll see you next week.