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There's no serious professionals
that get into hospitality 

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intentionally, at least that 
I've met. 

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Hello chefs. 
This is Chefs PSA, and I'm your 

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host, Andre Natera. 
Today my guest is Chef Chad 

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Welch, executive chef with Horse
Soldier Bourbon, who's worked 

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alongside the Jacques Pepin 
Foundation. 

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We're going to get into his 
storied. 

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Career. 
From scaling Navy recipes for 

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5000 troops to cutting Cornish 
game hens with a bandsaw on his 

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first day ever cooking. 
We're going to talk about. 

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The world of pre Google chef 
learning and landing with a 

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bourbon brand that puts World 
Trade Center steel in every 

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bottle. 
Stay tuned. 

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I know you got started cooking 
on cruise ships or not cruise 

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ships in the Navy. 
In the Navy, I've never talked 

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to anyone that has like 
expressed what it's really like 

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to be in the military cooking 
specifically in the ocean. 

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I had a friend that he was 
cooking on a boat recently and 

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he's saying it was like, and 
there was like a storm. 

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He said the fucking pots are 
sliding down. 

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It's like it's fucking wild. 
It's nuts. 

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Like for for us, an aircraft 
carrier doesn't move very much. 

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Like you rarely see it moving, 
but like, you know, it's very 

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similar to take a flight like 
just a commercial flight, like 

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when I flew here or whatever, 
everything has to be properly 

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stowed and tied down and ready 
to encounter rough weather, 

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right? 
But on an aircraft carrier you 

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never do that because it never 
moves. 

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So the only time that anything 
like that's ever happened to us,

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we were coming back in from a 
Mediterranean cruise into 

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Virginia and there is this huge 
storm at the in the Atlantic and

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it rocked our ship. 
And I'm from California and it 

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felt like an earthquake, but all
the like the Baker's racks and 

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roasting pans and everything 
just came crashing down. 

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Like because we'd never had 
anything stoked because it never

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moved. 
And then the one time that it 

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happened almost required 
stitches from roasting pans just

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falling off top of speed racks 
was pretty crazy. 

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Yeah, unlike, you know, other 
than a pizza place like in my 

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hometown. 
My first day in the professional

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kitchen was on aircraft carrier 
on the USS America. 

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Day 0. 
Day zero. 

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Yeah. 
So other than, you know, we 

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went, I went to Navy culinary 
school in San Diego, which was 

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basically basic knife skills and
safety sanitation. 

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And then this was a 1992. 
So tons of longhand recipe 

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conversion. 
So all the, all the, all the 

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armed forces recipe cards, 
they're universal throughout the

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entire military and they're all 
based on 100. 

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And so you either have to scale 
up or scale down depending on 

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how many people you're cooking 
for. 

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And the aircraft carrier has 
5000, so we would always have to

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scale up. 
So doing the math on scaling, I 

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don't even remember how to do 
it, but scaling like one 

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tablespoon for 100 people up to 
5000 portions was crazy. 

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And like going up and down it 
was, it was nuts. 

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But on my first day on the ship,
show up completely green like 

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you would in any other kitchen 
and but all of your military 

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bearings and my my uniform was 
all white and perfect and shoes 

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polished and everything. 
I was clearly the new guy. 

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And we were going to see my 
first day on my ship was our 

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first day at sea. 
And you meet up in the morning 

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and they assign everybody a 
station based on what the menu 

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is for that day, right? 
It's like, all right, I don't 

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know, we're doing meatloaf, 
mashed potatoes and fried fish. 

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So Andre, you're on ovens, Chad,
you're on fryer, you're on 

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whatever. 
And then you just go sort the 

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recipe out to go over there. 
But since I was the new guy, 

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they put me in veg prep. 
They were like just, you just go

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into that veg prep room and that
was actually very nice duty 

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because it's air conditioned and
all you're doing is like peeling

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stuff and chopping stuff and 
whatever. 

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But that day we had Cornish game
hen on the menu and I think they

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were just trying to make 
everybody feel good for it being

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their first day at sea, right? 
And in order to do the Cornish 

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game hen for 5000 people, my job
that day, on my first day at 

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sea, my first day in a 
professional kitchen, was to cut

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the Cornish game hens in half on
a band saw. 

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And I'd never worked with a band
saw. 

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And I'd, I had no idea what I 
was doing. 

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Yeah, it was, it was wild. 
And you're at sea. 

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Good news is I couldn't feel 
the, the ship moving at all. 

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But, you know, and I was really 
scared. 

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I still don't mess with band 
saw. 

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So I didn't cut myself, thank 
God. 

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But it, it's treacherous, you 
know, like doing these frozen 

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ice cubes, basically. 
And we cut them while they were 

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still shrink wrapped with the 
guts inside. 

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And you treated them kind of 
like lemons, right? 

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Like you cut them in half, shake
the insides out and squeeze the 

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plastic off and throw them on 
the Lexan on either side and, 

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and just keep it moving. 
So I asked because we, you know,

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you start work at like 4 O clock
in the morning because you got 

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to start for breakfast. 
And I asked, I was like, hey, I 

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thought we were going to see 
today and I don't know, we're at

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sea. 
And I was like, no way. 

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So they took me up to the hangar
Bay and I could see the waves 

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coming up over the side of the 
ship. 

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And then now all of a sudden now
I can feel the ship moving and I

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had to go back downstairs and 
finish doing those Cornish game 

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hens while it's defrosting. 
And then the little stuff is 

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accumulating at the top of the 
bandsaw and slowly dripping down

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as I can just slowly feel the 
boat rock. 

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That was as close as I ever came
to getting sick in my whole time

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in the military and but I never 
did. 

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How long we were on the ship. 
I was on the ship for two years.

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Yeah, cooking the entire time. 
Cooking the entire time. 

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And you know, like the The funny
thing I think you and I were 

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talking about it before is about
how like kind of everybody's 

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origin story is pretty much the 
same. 

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And I hate reading people's 
resumes or their BIOS talking 

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about how they grew up, their 
mother's apron strings and 

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whatever in the kitchen because 
like you know, you said that's 

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we all did everybody did that. 
Mine is a little bit different 

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because like I never wanted to 
be a cook. 

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Like I had tried to join the 
Navy as an electrician and I was

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working at at like a quick serve
place being a busser. 

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And it ended up turning into an 
accidental career in the Navy. 

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And then I got a job at a 
restaurant the first day I got 

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out. 
And so it seems like if you 

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follow my trajectory and kind of
initially unconventional cooking

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jobs and hospitality jobs, they 
were all kind of against my 

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will. 
So you you had no desire to be a

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chef, You're just going into the
Navy because they're just kind 

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of throwing you in. 
My mom started charging me rent 

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and it was time to go. 
Kitchens are brutal right now, 

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everyone knows it. 
Fewer people on the line, 

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margins tighter than ever, and 
somehow the expectations keep 

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going up. 
There's just no room to miss 

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anymore. 
I was talking to a chef recently

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who said the biggest stress 
wasn't the volume, it was the 

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mental load. 
Babysitting, food, timing, 

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everything perfectly, trying to 
be everywhere at once. 

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And that's where equipment 
matters more than people want to

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admit. 
Rationals technology comes up a 

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lot in those conversations. 
The Icon V Pro, the Ivario Pro 

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overnight roast that don't need 
to be checked, custom programs 

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for all your recipes, 
consistency without hovering 

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completely automated cleaning, 
monitoring everything from your 

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phone, The list goes on. 
And what really buys you the 

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headspace? 
Less standing over pans and more

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time to leave the kitchen 
instead of constantly putting 

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out tiny fires. 
When you're down to cook, when 

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the prep list is rough, when the
production ramps up. 

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Think rational. 
So when you got out, what is 

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what is your first cooking job 
right out of the Navy? 

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So I got out of the military on 
August 23rd, 1994 and they were 

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opening a new But you get out, 
it's called terminal leave. 

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You get out two weeks early just
because I had basically PTO 

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saved up, right. 
So I get out two weeks early. 

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Took two weeks to kind of figure
out where I was going to sleep. 

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And then the on August 23rd, 
1994, I got a job at a 

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restaurant in Northern 
California where I'm from and 

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it's called the Hop Yard and I 
started working there that day 

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and it was all just kind of 
quick serve pub type food that 

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ended up being really good like 
it what? 

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Was pop type food in 94? 
It was, it was chicken wings, 

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grilled chicken sandwiches of 
all kinds of different 

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varieties, burgers of all kinds 
of different varieties. 

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But like everything, you know, 
Caesar salads. 

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We punched our own French fries,
blanched them, did all that 

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stuff. 
And then, you know, in 

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retrospect, looking back at it, 
everything was like super 

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proper. 
Like it was, I didn't know what 

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I was doing, but it was like now
that I do looking back on it, 

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like we didn't need to be doing 
everything that good. 

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And but like during that time 
was also the time that because 

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we were buying some stuff from 
Cisco. 

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And the first time that I 
remember like I was like the 

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kitchen manager, first time I 
remember my Cisco Rep bringing 

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me kind of convenience 
appetizers like jalapeno poppers

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or like pre done mozzarella 
sticks, you know? 

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Like fucking best. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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I was just like, this is crazy, 
like people will do this for 

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you, like and then so then you 
know that I little do I know 

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that was kind of the end of mom 
and pop. 

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Restaurants. 
The fucking sampler platter. 

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Right. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. 

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The mozzarella sticks and 
something else, right? 

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Yeah, but everything we did, we 
were doing it all from scratch 

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and potato skins and like just 
for example, like we made, we, 

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we had baked potatoes on our 
menu. 

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And so when the baked potatoes 
and they were stuffed with all 

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kinds of different stuff and 
when the baked potatoes were 

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turn like after two days or 
whatever, three days that you 

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couldn't serve them as a baked 
potato, we would take the 

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insides out, make potato skins 
out of the the leftovers and 

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then we made potato chowder out 
of the insides. 

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So like, I can't take credit for
putting that menu together 

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initially, but the guy that did 
had all of like real restaurant 

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flow sort of stuff, even though 
we were just like an open bar 

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grill place, you know, like we 
made all of our dressings from 

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scratch, like mayonnaises, 
everything. 

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And it was like, good. 
It's, it's so funny because 

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back, back then, you know some, 
some of those things when you're

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seeing them for the first time, 
like you said, the mozzarella 

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sticks. 
You, you don't know, you go to a

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restaurant, you're a young kid. 
Like how do they make 

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mozzarella? 
Sticks. 

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You're fascinated and then you 
find out like, Oh my God, 

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there's a convenience product 
where it's like brilliant. 

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I would love to do a restaurant 
today that serves that kind of 

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food. 
Yeah. 

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You know, like, really nice. 
Like a nicer from scratch 

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version. 
Not, not frozen mozzarella 

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sticks, but like, homemade 
mozzarella sticks, you know, 

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pigs in a blanket. 
Yeah. 

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Devils on horseback. 
All real comfort food stuff like

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I have I, I write concept menus 
all the time, just like for fun 

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for myself. 
And one of the ones that I wrote

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a long time ago, it still sticks
with me. 

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It is that it's just all 
elevated comfort food that is 

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just like, it's not super 
pretentious, but it's like a 

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little bit nicer of a spin on a 
meatloaf and like of on like a 

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sloppy Joe even. 
And then you know, the crazy 

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things I was, I'm really into 
like we had a class in culinary 

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school. 
I went to culinary school in San

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Francisco and we had a class 
called Foods of the Americas and

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it was all about indigenous 
ingredients in the in the 

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continent of America. 
And then following like food 

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trends around the country and 
like, you know, the impact that 

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filmed the railroads did like 
with you'll find like amazing 

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Chinese food in like North 
Dakota because of the railroads 

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and then like Mexican cuisine 
and then just how stuff flows. 

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00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:10,160
And then I had a conversation 
with with Michelle Neshawn and 

226
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:17,720
he was explaining to me about he
opened, I can't remember which 

227
00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:19,560
one it was. 
Oh, the dressing room. 

228
00:13:19,560 --> 00:13:23,280
When he was open in the dressing
room, he had the idea of doing 

229
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:30,600
everything comfort food from the
standpoint if American comfort 

230
00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:36,720
food was continued to be passed 
down through the hands of 

231
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:38,120
craftspeople. 
You know what I mean? 

232
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,600
People that actually took it 
seriously and like, I never 

233
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:45,760
thought about at some point and 
like the 60s or 70s or 50s even 

234
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:50,960
a lot of like the craft of 
cooking and home making was 

235
00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:57,120
stunted by like big brains and 
convenience items. 

236
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,520
Like we were talking about like 
the can can tomato sauce and 

237
00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:02,920
like, and, and it's really 
interesting. 

238
00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:05,640
He showed me a database and I 
think it was, I think it was 

239
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:08,440
University of Michigan. 
There's like an online database 

240
00:14:08,440 --> 00:14:14,880
that has kind of compiled all 
these original recipes that were

241
00:14:14,880 --> 00:14:18,640
written by people that knew what
they were doing. 

242
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,120
And we're handing it down to 
other people that knew what they

243
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:26,560
were doing before, you know, not
to disparage Chef Boyardee, but 

244
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,560
before they came into play, you 
know what I mean? 

245
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,960
So my friend Bobby, he has his 
pages retro kitchen recipes, I, 

246
00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,040
I think on on Instagram. 
Sorry if I'm wrong Bobby, he'll 

247
00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:37,960
let me know if I'm wrong. 
I'm pretty sure it's retro 

248
00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:42,560
kitchen recipes he just put up. 
He's got a book and a lot of the

249
00:14:42,560 --> 00:14:47,760
stuff that he does is like, I 
mean, first of all, he's good at

250
00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,160
delivering the retro vibe on 
social media, like the music and

251
00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:53,560
the look. 
And he's he's fucking really 

252
00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,360
good at it. 
But and, and his book is really 

253
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,200
good as well. 
Like I've, I've, I've already 

254
00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:04,960
had the opportunity to look at 
it and but he's doing stuff 

255
00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:09,400
that's like, you know, a lot of 
gelatin dishes, a lot of a lot 

256
00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:13,720
of, you know, like carpetbagger,
you know, this, that, and it's 

257
00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,240
like you forget about some of 
these things. 

258
00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,560
And so when I'm looking at some 
of this, I was like, I remember 

259
00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:19,520
making that. 
I remember some of these dishes 

260
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:21,760
were on menus. 
Some of that was family meal, 

261
00:15:21,760 --> 00:15:25,720
like was the chicken tetrazzini.
And yeah, yeah, yeah. 

262
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:27,440
A lot of these old dishes that's
like. 

263
00:15:27,440 --> 00:15:29,440
Turkey tetrazini all. 
Those right the Turkey 

264
00:15:29,440 --> 00:15:31,920
tetrazini, yeah yeah, a lot of 
these dishes. 

265
00:15:31,920 --> 00:15:33,200
Well, he does a great job at 
that. 

266
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:34,880
So for, you know, shout out to 
Bobby. 

267
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,600
He's he's he's, I don't think 
anyone's doing what he's doing 

268
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:40,920
wrong. 
On, on, on bringing that sort of

269
00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:42,520
awareness out there. 
So people should follow him. 

270
00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:46,400
But it's curious to see where 
that food would have wound up 

271
00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:48,440
today. 
Yeah, If it wasn't, if there 

272
00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:50,880
wasn't some sort of fork in the 
road that, you know, here comes.

273
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:53,760
Here comes Monsanto. 
Yeah. 

274
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

275
00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:58,720
I was thinking about it just, 
you know, there's there's a 

276
00:15:59,160 --> 00:16:03,240
another funny story we were 
talking about gave Aralis 

277
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:07,040
earlier and and you know, we've 
only met one time. 

278
00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:09,840
I don't know him very well when 
we text occasionally on on 

279
00:16:09,840 --> 00:16:16,400
social media, But like my family
is is all Mexican from my dad's 

280
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,280
Greek and Irish. 
My mom's full Mexican. 

281
00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:22,040
My dad didn't have any brothers 
and sisters and my mom has a 

282
00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:23,160
million. 
So you grew up Mexican? 

283
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:27,240
I grew up Mexican and eating 
only Mexican comfort food. 

284
00:16:27,240 --> 00:16:31,680
And you know, my grandma was a 
Greek cook on my dad's side and 

285
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:36,560
my grandpa on my dad's side. 
He was remarried to an Italian 

286
00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:41,680
before I was born. 
So I'm kind of taking a tangent,

287
00:16:41,680 --> 00:16:44,440
but he was a Baker. 
He opened the first bakery in a 

288
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,160
grocery store in Northern 
California. 

289
00:16:46,520 --> 00:16:48,520
And then him and my grandma 
owned a bakery in Northern 

290
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:50,120
California. 
So it was like kind of an 

291
00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,880
Italian. 
She was Daisy Loopy. 

292
00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:54,880
Then the bakery was called 
Loopy's Bakery in Northern 

293
00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,040
California. 
But so I've always been kind of 

294
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,760
surrounded by food in spite of 
me never wanted to cook. 

295
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,079
I don't know that I really had a
choice in retrospect. 

296
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:09,760
But back to the the Gabe thing. 
So I've always had a issue for 

297
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:11,720
whatever reason. 
I don't, I don't know, I've been

298
00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,079
kind of exploring it, but like 
this mind block of cooking 

299
00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:17,240
Mexican. 
So like whenever I have to do 

300
00:17:17,240 --> 00:17:23,200
anything fancy or an audition or
whatever, for whatever reason, I

301
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:26,599
like trend Asian like towards 
Asian flavors. 

302
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:28,400
I have no experience with Asian 
cuisine. 

303
00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:33,600
Like I've never worked in in 
there's except for like a really

304
00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:36,920
good teacher in culinary school.
But like, for whatever reason, 

305
00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,280
the flavors when I just think 
about doing something fancy, it 

306
00:17:40,280 --> 00:17:44,960
would be like soy based or 
something, you know, and really 

307
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:48,160
strange. 
And I, I, I kind of boiled it 

308
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:52,200
down to like one, It's so 
comforting. 

309
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:55,120
It feels like it's not special. 
It's like only special to me, 

310
00:17:55,200 --> 00:17:58,080
you know what I mean? 
It's like it, it seems too easy 

311
00:17:58,240 --> 00:18:02,480
or like to kind of passe. 
And again, that's just me kind 

312
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,600
of analyzing my, my stance 
psychologically, right? 

313
00:18:07,120 --> 00:18:11,520
But so I've never really, 
there's a few recipes that I do 

314
00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,040
and I'll incorporate on 
occasion. 

315
00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:19,600
But like I grew up my grandma, 
they're from Mission, TX and my 

316
00:18:19,600 --> 00:18:22,480
grandma always made flour 
tortillas for us. 

317
00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:25,880
Like I mean all day, every day. 
You go to my grandma's house and

318
00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:28,720
there was a pot of beans and a 
pot of rice and flour tortillas 

319
00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:30,600
and the Kamala was always on. 
And then with a. 

320
00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,360
Little bit of butter. 
Yeah, butter. 

321
00:18:32,360 --> 00:18:36,360
Or then we'd get super crazy and
fry it and put sugar and 

322
00:18:36,920 --> 00:18:38,640
cinnamon on them, the little 
Bowellos, you know? 

323
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,920
But like always with butter or 
jam or or whatever, and always 

324
00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:46,120
with or food, like she used to 
tell me that, you know, real 

325
00:18:46,120 --> 00:18:49,120
Mexicans don't use silverware. 
You know, that you just got to 

326
00:18:49,120 --> 00:18:51,280
tear the tortilla apart and eat 
with the tortillas. 

327
00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:55,360
And I used to make them with her
all the time. 

328
00:18:55,400 --> 00:18:57,440
The tortillas. 
Yeah, yeah, all the time. 

329
00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,040
And like I have this, you know, 
she always made it in the same 

330
00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:03,640
bowl, in this blue bowl that 
like that's kind of how she 

331
00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,000
measured everything. 
And I have this vivid memory of 

332
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:09,960
like my hands being in the bowl 
with her and getting the feel 

333
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,720
for the masa and everything. 
And like her telling me that 

334
00:19:12,720 --> 00:19:16,400
water had to be as hot as your 
hands could stand. 

335
00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:19,640
So you got to make it as hot as 
you can, but not to burn your 

336
00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:20,960
hands and your hands stay in the
ball. 

337
00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:23,760
So I have all these memories, 
but I've never made flour 

338
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:27,560
tortillas, right? 
And so during COVID, I had, I 

339
00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:30,000
had a test kitchen with the 
company I was working for in 

340
00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:34,280
Louisville. 
And I was, I worked everyday 

341
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:40,240
through COVID, but largely often
I was by myself in my full test 

342
00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:42,760
kitchen and not doing what it 
was meant for. 

343
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:46,240
So it was just, but it was very 
therapeutic for me during COVID 

344
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,600
just to go in and cook. 
And I was just cooking for 

345
00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,600
people. 
That was like running the 

346
00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:53,760
business and it, it felt very 
military. 

347
00:19:53,800 --> 00:19:56,760
But like one Saturday I went 
into the office and I was in the

348
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,360
kitchen by myself and I was 
going to make flour tortillas. 

349
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,240
So I texted Gate. 
I was like, what is your flour 

350
00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:05,640
tortilla recipe? 
And it, and I always feel so 

351
00:20:05,640 --> 00:20:08,600
stupid because it's like three 
ingredients, you know what I 

352
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:10,080
mean? 
But I need somebody's recipe for

353
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:10,880
that. 
Or something. 

354
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:17,520
And so he sent it to me and I 
was in my kitchen by myself. 

355
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,320
My kitchen had windows in it and
I was like, sun was rising. 

356
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:22,080
It was like just the perfect 
time of day. 

357
00:20:22,080 --> 00:20:24,640
And it was super clean. 
Everything was set up for me and

358
00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:28,200
I was by myself. 
I turned on mariachi music, 

359
00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:32,040
Linda Ronstadt, the Constance de
MI Patre that my mom and my 

360
00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:35,720
family used to listen to, and I 
like actually FaceTime my mom 

361
00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:39,880
and I'm and I got Gabe's recipe 
and I'm channelling my grandma 

362
00:20:39,880 --> 00:20:42,960
and remembering all this stuff. 
And those shits didn't turn out 

363
00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,800
at all. 
Not. 

364
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:48,000
Give games you the wrong 
fucking. 

365
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:50,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
He was trying to sabotage me. 

366
00:20:50,640 --> 00:20:52,440
No, it was definitely user 
error. 

367
00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:55,680
It was definitely user error, 
but it was like, I just 

368
00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:57,960
couldn't. 
I couldn't make it work, you 

369
00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:02,640
know, and like, but like back to
the convenience product aspect 

370
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:07,080
of stuff. 
I remember my grandma, this is 

371
00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,520
like how kind of micro it can 
get. 

372
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:14,400
Like as I was thinking about the
conversation with Michelle, my 

373
00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:18,400
grandma used to toast cumin 
seeds and smash them in the 

374
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:20,920
mocahete. 
I don't know if she didn't have 

375
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:25,600
access to ground cumin, you 
know, or like, I don't know 

376
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,720
because, you know, it was always
called comino or whatever. 

377
00:21:28,720 --> 00:21:34,560
But eventually her recipe 
morphed into ground cumin, not 

378
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:36,800
toasted. 
And like, the little salsa 

379
00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:40,560
changes would just be with 
things that started showing up 

380
00:21:40,560 --> 00:21:42,360
more in Northern California, you
know? 

381
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,360
So, you know, there's all kinds 
of crazy stuff, whether it's 

382
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:47,840
macaroni and cheese or toasted 
cumin seeds, I guess. 

383
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:51,160
It's, it's funny, you know, I 
grew up a latchkey kid. 

384
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:52,920
I was texting with someone about
this last night. 

385
00:21:52,920 --> 00:21:56,400
We were talking about, you know,
food from our childhood and how 

386
00:21:56,400 --> 00:22:00,120
it shaped us as chefs. 
I grew up as a latchkey kid. 

387
00:22:00,120 --> 00:22:02,480
My parents divorced when I was 
pretty young. 

388
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:06,080
So I was either living with my 
mom or with my dad, one or the 

389
00:22:06,080 --> 00:22:08,920
other. 
And the good thing about living 

390
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:10,800
with my dad is, you know, he 
would go out and party, 

391
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:11,960
whatever. 
So he wasn't coming home till 

392
00:22:11,960 --> 00:22:13,800
2:00 in the morning. 
So I'd have the house to myself.

393
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:19,080
And when I first learned to 
cook, you know, I'd invite 

394
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,920
cousins, friends over. 
So, you know, we're all going to

395
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:23,240
stay the night. 
We're middle school, high 

396
00:22:23,240 --> 00:22:25,520
school, you know, come over, 
stay the night. 

397
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:29,240
We're going to we're going to 
watch Goodfellas or Godfather or

398
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:31,480
something like that where I'm 
going to cook some a a big 

399
00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,240
Italian feast. 
We're going to play cards and 

400
00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:36,720
we're going to like prank call 
fucking whoever out of the phone

401
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,800
book or. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

402
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:42,760
Yeah, but my, the, the food that
I first learned how to cook when

403
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,800
I because no one taught me how 
to cook, you know, I don't have 

404
00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:48,360
that beautiful like, oh, 
grandmother's her mom's food. 

405
00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:49,720
And I didn't really grow up that
way. 

406
00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:52,440
I mean, I, I ate what they fed 
me, but I wasn't in the kitchen 

407
00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,160
with them totally. 
But when I learned how to cook, 

408
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:58,400
it was because I was like that 
scene in Goodfellas where 

409
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,680
Polly's slice in the the garlic 
or the razor blade, I'm like, I 

410
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:03,080
want to make that. 
I want to make the fucking 

411
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,760
sausage. 
And the so I learned how to cook

412
00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,160
that, you know, buying magazines
or whatever and getting Italian 

413
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:09,440
recipes. 
So I'd make that. 

414
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:15,440
And that is like my food 
identity when I was growing up 

415
00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,880
was that Italian food that I was
like, Hey, we're just just like,

416
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:20,760
we're going to fucking watch 
Goodfellas and, and. 

417
00:23:20,760 --> 00:23:22,400
Make Italian. 
And fucking make Italian. 

418
00:23:22,400 --> 00:23:23,480
Yeah. 
What else were we going to do? 

419
00:23:23,480 --> 00:23:25,560
We're kids. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, That's the 

420
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,680
best. 
I mean, we had, I don't know. 

421
00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:35,960
You know, The funny thing has my
it was very much the same way. 

422
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:40,320
Like I was always surrounded by 
food, like, like all kinds of 

423
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:44,200
different flavors and and 
approaches. 

424
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:48,720
And I grew up same thing. 
I I like my parents were 

425
00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:53,440
divorced when I was in 6th grade
and then and I went to 9 schools

426
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,560
and lived all over the Bay Area 
and did did everything a. 

427
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,360
Lot of stupid. 
Shit, a lot of stupid shit and 

428
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,040
but it was, you know, we had to 
cook for ourselves. 

429
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,120
My sister really kind of got 
stuck cooking for me, but it was

430
00:24:07,120 --> 00:24:12,040
more like I, I remember I had 
like, it's crazy how like you 

431
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,840
have like alcohol stories. 
If you get too drunk and you 

432
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,720
threw up on tequila, you never 
drink tequila for like years or 

433
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:21,920
whatever, right? 
My sister, we used to eat minute

434
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:27,160
rice with butter and salt on it.
I don't know if that's a thing, 

435
00:24:27,280 --> 00:24:28,920
but that's what we ate when we 
were kids. 

436
00:24:28,920 --> 00:24:30,240
Like when she would have to cook
for me. 

437
00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:32,320
And I loved it. 
I really liked it. 

438
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:38,160
But then one time I put too much
salt on or like the top came off

439
00:24:38,160 --> 00:24:40,160
or something and it was like 
disgusting. 

440
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:43,360
And she was like, well, that's 
all you got to eat, so you 

441
00:24:43,360 --> 00:24:45,200
better fucking eat it. 
So I ate it. 

442
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:49,080
And then I now I can't stand the
smell of parboiled rice. 

443
00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,360
Like, still to. 
Yeah. 

444
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,480
You know, it's fine. 
I'm like that with soy sauce. 

445
00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:54,880
Yeah. 
I like soy sauce. 

446
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,720
Yeah. 
But when I was a kid, I went to 

447
00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,280
a friend's house. 
I didn't know anything about soy

448
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:58,920
sauce. 
Yeah. 

449
00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:00,560
Yeah. 
I was used to eating fucking 

450
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,600
Mexican food all day. 
Yeah. 

451
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:02,360
Yeah. 
And so I go. 

452
00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:05,240
I go to a friend's house and 
I'm, like, probably 5 or 6 years

453
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:06,840
old, like, kindergarten, first 
grade. 

454
00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,520
Yeah. 
And his family made Chinese 

455
00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:13,280
food, and they had white rice, 
and they gave me some soy sauce.

456
00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:17,280
And I just doused the food in 
soy sauce. 

457
00:25:17,280 --> 00:25:19,280
Like, I don't know what it is. 
I can't eat. 

458
00:25:19,360 --> 00:25:21,640
It's ketchup. 
It's like soup at this point. 

459
00:25:21,640 --> 00:25:25,440
Yeah, Yeah. 
And I remember the dad who was 

460
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,560
like, very stern, looking at me 
and saying, you're gonna eat all

461
00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:31,160
that. 
And I'm like, I'm a little kid. 

462
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:33,960
And I'm like, OK, yeah, I don't 
know what soy sauce is, but they

463
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:36,240
see me wasting it. 
Yeah, it's their soy sauce. 

464
00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:38,000
They know I'm fucking up. 
Yeah, yeah. 

465
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,040
And they made me. 
That's probably nice soy sauce. 

466
00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:42,640
Yeah, I mean, who knows what it 
would keep command or whatever, 

467
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:47,120
but I remember they made me 
finish all that rice and I'm 

468
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:50,320
like gagging and and it's like 
hit the the my friend's dad. 

469
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,200
It's like a military man. 
Yeah, guy, I'm like 7 years old 

470
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,920
or six years old. 
He's like, you better eat all 

471
00:25:55,920 --> 00:25:57,920
that rice too. 
I'm like gagging it down. 

472
00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:01,160
That's the worst. 
I, I hate that shit. 

473
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:10,360
I had, I think, you know, kind 
of back to the alternative 

474
00:26:10,360 --> 00:26:13,640
careers and kind of how I backed
into the military and cooking 

475
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,640
just in general. 
It was like kind of the same. 

476
00:26:17,360 --> 00:26:22,320
I've been in senior housing for 
it was just a little over 20 

477
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:26,920
years that I was in senior 
housing and it was very much the

478
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:29,120
same. 
I had no intention of working in

479
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:31,360
senior housing. 
It was like it was an accident. 

480
00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:35,440
I I was working at a winery in 
Northern California and I 

481
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:41,760
changed whatever they did. 
The winery didn't. 

482
00:26:41,760 --> 00:26:46,560
The management company for the 
catering operation fired me when

483
00:26:46,560 --> 00:26:52,080
I was on vacation, which was 
super fun, but it the I've 

484
00:26:52,080 --> 00:26:55,040
maintained friendships with 
everybody though, and, and the 

485
00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,760
winery is Mitchell Katz Winery. 
My friend Mitch passed away a 

486
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,640
couple years ago unexpectedly 
and his son is running 

487
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:04,400
everything and it's in, it's in 
Livermore. 

488
00:27:05,360 --> 00:27:10,280
I just had to give them a quick 
shout out, but the, I was 

489
00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:13,080
working at that winery and I 
didn't have a job. 

490
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,640
So I just started applying 
everywhere on Craigslist back in

491
00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:20,240
the day. 
And you know, going on all these

492
00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:24,080
interviews and printing out my 
MapQuest things cause like, you 

493
00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,800
know, there was like there was 
no navigation. 

494
00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:31,040
You know, this was like, I don't
even know what year it was, 

495
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:36,360
early 2000s. 
And I got an interview for this 

496
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:40,400
place called Atria and I didn't 
know what it was. 

497
00:27:40,560 --> 00:27:45,640
And so I went and interviewed 
with them and I, I saw that it 

498
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:48,680
was a senior living place when I
pulled up and before I 

499
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:52,080
interviewed, actually I almost 
didn't go in to the, the 

500
00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:56,880
interview at all, but it was 
like it was like 20-30 minutes 

501
00:27:56,880 --> 00:27:59,000
from my house. 
So I was like, well, shit, I'm 

502
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,720
already out here. 
I better just go do it and see 

503
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:05,120
what's up. 
And I went in and I was like, 

504
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,920
there's no, no way I'm going to 
work here. 

505
00:28:07,920 --> 00:28:11,120
And then I've met the people 
that interviewed me at the time,

506
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:15,920
my former boss, and they were 
amazing. 

507
00:28:16,080 --> 00:28:21,920
And then I, when I saw the 
senior housing, I was like, it 

508
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:24,000
was way different than I, what I
anticipated. 

509
00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:28,480
I thought it was going to be a 
what I now know is a nursing 

510
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,840
home, like a skilled nursing 
facility or a much more clinical

511
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:34,600
environment that's more like a 
hospital and like people wear 

512
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,480
scrubs and tile floors. 
And that's, that's what I was 

513
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,680
expecting. 
This wasn't, this was like and 

514
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:44,880
you know, and again, this is 20 
years ago, so there's been a lot

515
00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:48,960
of advancement since. 
But when I started, it was still

516
00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:52,320
really nice, carpeted floors, 
real dining rooms, like 

517
00:28:52,320 --> 00:28:56,400
restaurant sorts of things, the 
linens people got dressed nice 

518
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:01,240
to come to the restaurant. 
And I was like, there's a lot 

519
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:05,280
that we can do with this place. 
And and I told myself, my friend

520
00:29:05,280 --> 00:29:08,640
that hired me still jokes with 
me about it, that I was like, 

521
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,280
look, I'm either going to be 
here for a short enough period 

522
00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:13,600
of time that I never have to 
talk about it again, or I'm 

523
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:16,760
going to be here forever. 
And turns out I was there 

524
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:18,440
forever. 
It was like 20 years. 

525
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:23,960
You have a very interesting 
career that I don't know if I've

526
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:27,040
ever had anyone on the podcast 
before that's probably worked in

527
00:29:27,040 --> 00:29:32,120
as many diverse areas of the 
industry as you because I feel 

528
00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,760
like you've been in hotels, like
you said you were in the Navy. 

529
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:39,120
You know you're in a restaurant 
now. 

530
00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:41,800
Brewery. 
Partner in a bakery like you 

531
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:44,280
got. 
And a freestanding restaurant 

532
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:47,840
Freestanding like you've. 
Covered pretty much every aspect

533
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:53,400
of the industry at that is that 
a chef can go into. 

534
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,560
And one of the things that I 
think about often is that 

535
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:00,160
obviously I have a podcast, so I
talk about, I talk to chefs and 

536
00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:03,120
I talk to industry. 
You know that that's my 

537
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,160
audience. 
But unfortunately we usually 

538
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,120
talk about a certain section of 
the industry, right? 

539
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,080
Which is like maybe 5 or 6 
restaurants. 

540
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:14,680
Yeah, but that is 5 or 6 
restaurants that are covering 

541
00:30:14,680 --> 00:30:17,800
500 employees and there's 
millions of people in the 

542
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:18,640
business. 
Yeah. 

543
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,920
And, and the industry is so 
varied and vast. 

544
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,680
And just because something's 
going on in one type of 

545
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,320
restaurant doesn't mean that 
that the entire industry is 

546
00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:35,120
affected by that and vice versa.
I think it's super interesting. 

547
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:37,800
And I think for a lot of people,
when you're starting your 

548
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,520
culinary career, like get, get 
some experience, figure out what

549
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:44,280
you want to do first of all, but
get some experience. 

550
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:49,120
Like it's we, we go into a 
certain, a certain in certain 

551
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:50,880
kitchens and we think, well, 
this is the best. 

552
00:30:51,040 --> 00:30:53,440
Like, well, you can't say that 
if you've never worked anywhere 

553
00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,360
else if you only know this, 
Yeah. 

554
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,600
And, and, and your exposure to 
different chefs, you know, like 

555
00:30:59,880 --> 00:31:04,560
the other thing when I got out 
of so I, I was military 1st and 

556
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:07,040
then free standing restaurant 
for five years. 

557
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,800
We opened a second location and 
I got to design my first kitchen

558
00:31:11,000 --> 00:31:15,440
there, which was really just 
mild adjustments to the line in 

559
00:31:15,440 --> 00:31:17,200
a different placement to the 
walk in. 

560
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But. 

561
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,000
But still, you know, like, it 
was a mom and pop opening, like 

562
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:28,840
literally laid the foundation 
for the kitchen floor myself, 

563
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:30,520
like with a shovel, you know 
what I mean? 

564
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:37,000
Like helping out and then going 
to the going to The Four Seasons

565
00:31:37,440 --> 00:31:43,280
after culinary school and my my 
trajectory after I went to 

566
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,160
culinary school. 
Forget The Four Seasons, but 

567
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,760
after culinary school. 
Where'd you go to culinary 

568
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:50,760
school? 
The California Culinary Academy 

569
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:52,880
CCA. 
Yeah, CCA before the Cordon Bleu

570
00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:53,360
bought it. 
When? 

571
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:54,440
When? 
When were you there? 

572
00:31:54,760 --> 00:32:01,080
I got out in 9899. 
OK, so I, I, I went to school in

573
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:04,240
Portland, OR. 
I graduated in 9596. 

574
00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:05,600
I don't remember. 
What school? 

575
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:07,280
It was the Western culinary. 
I I know. 

576
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:09,080
I know where it is, yeah. 
In Portland and. 

577
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,080
With the glass front. 
Yeah, yeah. 

578
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:12,720
I don't know what it looks like.
I don't even know if it still 

579
00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360
exists, to be honest with you, 
but I remember our the Dean of 

580
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:17,560
the school had come from CCA. 
His name was Larry Lewis. 

581
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:19,360
Hit a ponytail. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

582
00:32:19,400 --> 00:32:20,040
I don't know. 
I don't. 

583
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:22,880
Know if you I think it might 
have been before your time, but 

584
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,800
he was like the coolest dude. 
Yeah, and the the the CCA was 

585
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:33,040
great when I went but one again,
I mean, it's weird when I talk 

586
00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,200
about this stuff, but like I 
didn't want to go to culinary 

587
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,760
school like so. 
Why'd you go? 

588
00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,840
Because everybody kind of 
convinced me, you know, if 

589
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:43,080
you're going to you're my dad 
had a big part in that. 

590
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,400
But everybody I just met my 
wife, my current, my only wife. 

591
00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,240
We've been together since 96. 
So we just kind of got together 

592
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:54,880
and I was trying to figure out 
where we were like what I was 

593
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,840
going to do for a career. 
And you know, like a lot of 

594
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,680
people, I spent five years in 
one restaurant talking about I'm

595
00:33:01,680 --> 00:33:04,200
going to get a real job at some 
point and watching everybody 

596
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:07,440
around me go get a real job and 
finish their school. 

597
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,920
And like, that's a lot of the 
stuff that I teach and preach 

598
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,920
currently is like hospitality 
and cooking is really 

599
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:21,240
placeholders for people. 
There's no serious professionals

600
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,560
that get into hospitality 
intentionally, at least that 

601
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,360
I've met, like have gotten in to
either cooking or front of house

602
00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:31,280
management or service and been 
like, you know what, I'm going 

603
00:33:31,280 --> 00:33:32,440
to do this for the rest of my 
life. 

604
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:34,400
Day one. 
This is what I'm doing. 

605
00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,240
You know what I mean? 
There's a few and I went to 

606
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:40,600
school and started with people 
that had that attitude and 

607
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:42,920
didn't last like more than a 
year or so. 

608
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:46,520
But like when I went to culinary
school, everybody was kind of 

609
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,280
trying to convince me to go. 
And then I had my GI Bill from 

610
00:33:50,280 --> 00:33:52,960
the military. 
So I used it, went to culinary 

611
00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:56,240
school and it was fantastic. 
And also before I went to 

612
00:33:56,240 --> 00:34:00,440
culinary school, I had done 2 
externships at my job. 

613
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,680
So like people would graduated 
from the CCA and come and done 

614
00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,560
their externship with me and 
they couldn't cook for shit. 

615
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,880
And and I was like what, what am
I going to go pay these people 

616
00:34:10,880 --> 00:34:12,480
to show me how to work like this
kid? 

617
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:16,159
You know, like slicing a 
mushroom one piece at a time, 

618
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:19,440
put it in a bowl like it was, it
was crazy. 

619
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:23,280
But when I went, I was like, all
right, I'm going to go and I'm 

620
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:25,120
going to treat this super 
seriously. 

621
00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,520
And I'm the worst academic. 
I hate school and you know, like

622
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:33,000
I can't but too much ADB. 
But you know, my wife is very 

623
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,480
academic. 
She helped me do my school work 

624
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:40,120
and did my reports and stuff and
and that. 

625
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,239
But I could cook, you know? 
So like, I knew that I was good 

626
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,840
at cooking, and I was just going
to hang out with the teachers 

627
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:50,040
and not try to make friends with
anybody. 

628
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:51,639
I would say I was trying to make
money. 

629
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,880
If I was going to go to culinary
school, my next move was a check

630
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:58,200
I didn't care about. 
What you were making back. 

631
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:02,200
Then I was making I think I was 
making $15.00 an hour. 

632
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:07,600
Damn it might have been. 
I think they convinced me to go 

633
00:35:07,600 --> 00:35:10,600
salary for like 25,000 a year 
really or something. 

634
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,120
I remember when I was making 
like it was a big deal for me 

635
00:35:13,120 --> 00:35:15,080
when I got my first $11.00 an 
hour job. 

636
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:17,080
And I well, I was in the Bay 
Area. 

637
00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:19,680
Yeah, I know, I know. 
And I remember making $11.00 an 

638
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:21,520
hour. 
It was, it was a sous chef job 

639
00:35:21,520 --> 00:35:24,120
and I was negotiating with the 
with the person. 

640
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:26,680
I was like, can I get like 1125?
And they're like no, take it or 

641
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:29,000
leave it. 
I was like $11.00, like a $2.00 

642
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:30,880
raise for my $9. 
Yeah, I'll take. 

643
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,680
It Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's and,
and that's what it was. 

644
00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,320
So as soon as I got out of 
culinary school, I was expecting

645
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,920
to make money like that was it 
and I didn't care. 

646
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:46,240
So I wasn't chasing. 
I wasn't going to go to the the 

647
00:35:46,240 --> 00:35:50,360
fanciest play I remember. 
So like in culinary school, you 

648
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:52,440
know, you have to go find a 
place to do an externship. 

649
00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:57,280
Everybody was going to French 
Laundry or Stars or Chez Panisse

650
00:35:57,280 --> 00:36:01,400
or like a bunch of my friends 
went to Picasso, like in Vegas 

651
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:03,880
and like everything was going 
on. 

652
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,080
I didn't. 
Was everyone stayed in 

653
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,640
California? 
Was that the like from CCA? 

654
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:11,240
The most, most people were, and 
a lot of the people that were 

655
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,600
looking for those externships 
weren't from California. 

656
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,920
Do you know where? 
So I went to a culinary school 

657
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:17,800
in Portland. 
Do you know where the hot places

658
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:19,080
were? 
Where you're not going to 

659
00:36:19,080 --> 00:36:19,880
believe. 
This where? 

660
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,200
Taco Bell. 
I'm not, I'm not kidding. 

661
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:24,000
I remember the Taco Bell person 
came. 

662
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:26,320
They were trying to recruit from
culinary school and saying you 

663
00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:29,000
know, store manager from Taco 
Bell. 

664
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:31,160
I remember the numbers making 
50,000 a year. 

665
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:32,320
Right. 
Like I didn't go to school. 

666
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,360
That's where I would have been. 
But I'll still be a Taco Bell. 

667
00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,360
Never forget, they were Taco 
Bells showing up trying to 

668
00:36:37,360 --> 00:36:39,920
recruit. 
And a lot of kids went, yeah, 

669
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,240
they're like, fuck, that's a lot
of money at Taco Bell to be a 

670
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:46,640
Taco Bell manager. 
The Benson Hotel in Portland, OR

671
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:48,280
was the other one that was 
getting, you know, big 

672
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:50,000
recruitment, but the Playboy 
Mansion. 

673
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,280
Oh shit. 
The Playboy Mansion was taking 

674
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:55,680
and and Disney like Disney 
Playboy mansion, Taco Bell and 

675
00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:58,480
and the Benson Hotel. 
Everyone from my culinary 

676
00:36:58,480 --> 00:37:00,280
school's like we got to get into
that Playboy mansion. 

677
00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,680
It was like the fucking hottest.
It was the hottest place for 

678
00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:05,200
people to try and get an 
internship. 

679
00:37:05,480 --> 00:37:10,240
Well, when, when for whatever 
reason, there was so many people

680
00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:15,080
trying to go to these spots and 
I didn't want to go like I had 

681
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:17,800
no desire. 
I just thought it was corny. 

682
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,440
I thought it was like I, I 
didn't even know anything about 

683
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:23,440
it, right. 
Because I went to stars a bunch 

684
00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:26,280
because it was near my school 
and, and I had a bunch of people

685
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,920
working there. 
But I like, I would go see them 

686
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:32,560
work in a station and like a 
place like stars with like the 

687
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,920
volume that stars was doing. 
And I was like, I don't want to,

688
00:37:34,960 --> 00:37:39,680
I don't want to do that. 
I don't want to work and one 

689
00:37:39,680 --> 00:37:42,800
station and have one component 
to one dish, you know what I 

690
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:44,320
mean? 
I want to do, I want to do 

691
00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:46,200
everything and I want to be in 
charge. 

692
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:48,760
You know how to cook. 
That's not the problem. 

693
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,760
The problem is getting your team
to do what you want when you 

694
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:53,280
want it. 
That's leadership. 

695
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,960
My book, Culinary Leadership 
Fundamentals, breaks down 

696
00:37:55,960 --> 00:37:58,200
exactly how to run a kitchen 
without losing your mind. 

697
00:37:58,200 --> 00:37:59,760
Stop yelling. 
Start leading. 

698
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:06,160
Get the book at Chefs psa.com. 
And so like my trajectory was 

699
00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,840
totally backwards. 
So like coming from volume and 

700
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:14,920
institutional and then trying to
make money and then going to The

701
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:19,080
Four Seasons and then starting 
to see like what we were talking

702
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:21,640
about a little bit earlier when 
you, when, when I went to The 

703
00:38:21,640 --> 00:38:28,320
Four Seasons, I was on the tail 
end of the change. the IT was 

704
00:38:28,320 --> 00:38:29,960
changing. 
It was the Clift Hotel and it 

705
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:33,480
was changing from the actual 
Four Seasons into a Marriott. 

706
00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:35,840
And then ultimately Schrager 
bought it while I was there. 

707
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,520
I did the Millennium New Year's 
at the at that hotel. 

708
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,800
So I didn't get to work with all
of the chefs that ran it, but I 

709
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,720
got to work with all the cooks 
and all the servers and all the 

710
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:50,160
bartenders. 
There were like 20-30 year union

711
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:51,440
employees. 
They knew it. 

712
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,960
They knew everything. 
Yeah. 

713
00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:54,840
And. 
For people that don't know, we 

714
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:56,880
were talking about this earlier,
the chef at The Four Seasons of 

715
00:38:56,880 --> 00:39:01,200
the time, Mercer Moore, Yeah, 
who I met as well. 

716
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:05,400
We crossed paths briefly, and I 
remember him telling me that his

717
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,720
sous chefs at the time at The 
Four Seasons in San Francisco 

718
00:39:07,720 --> 00:39:09,760
were Michael Mina, Mario Batali.
Right, right, right. 

719
00:39:09,840 --> 00:39:13,320
Yes. 
And I didn't get to meet them, 

720
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:17,480
but there were Mario. 
I don't I don't remember ever 

721
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:19,840
hearing of him being in San 
Francisco, at least while I was 

722
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,360
there. 
By the way, I have no idea if 

723
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:23,360
that's true. 
Yeah, I'm just taking his work. 

724
00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:26,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
There's so much also about like 

725
00:39:27,080 --> 00:39:30,720
not being able to Google, you 
know, like I was thinking about 

726
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:32,120
it was. 
Better to lie back then. 

727
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,360
Yeah, yeah, get away with. 
It I was thinking about coming 

728
00:39:34,360 --> 00:39:37,680
on here and I have like all 
these stories and I was like, 

729
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:39,240
damn, I don't even know if 
that's true. 

730
00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,200
It's something that I've just 
known for my whole life. 

731
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:46,400
I don't even know if it's real. 
But but at the but Michael Mina 

732
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:51,720
was always around and you know, 
one of my he took over Charles 

733
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:56,480
Nob Hill at some point and and 
Ron Siegel from San Francisco 

734
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,280
was my he, he's he's kind of my.
At that time. 

735
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:02,360
I'm the big fanboy. 
Fucking goat, right? 

736
00:40:02,560 --> 00:40:05,280
So for people that don't know 
the name Ron Siegel, and I think

737
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:08,480
it's important to do your 
homework on some of these great 

738
00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:10,440
chefs that set the foundation 
for you. 

739
00:40:10,440 --> 00:40:13,760
I don't know exactly what his 
relationship to the French 

740
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:14,920
Laundry. 
I don't know if he's a sous chef

741
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:17,840
there or what, but he was. 
He went through that system and 

742
00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:21,000
then he was the chef of the 
dining room at the Ritz Carlton 

743
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:23,520
in San Francisco. 
I think it might have actually 

744
00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:25,960
been his concept. 
Right, right. 

745
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:30,000
Something like that. 
But he was the first American to

746
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:34,040
go on Iron Chef Japan before 
Iron Chef America even was a. 

747
00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:37,600
Thought it's the reason that I 
have ever heard of Iron Chef. 

748
00:40:37,720 --> 00:40:40,480
It wasn't the other way around. 
He didn't get famous from my 

749
00:40:40,480 --> 00:40:42,200
perspective. 
He didn't get famous from being 

750
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,280
on Iron Chef. 
Iron Chef got famous to me 

751
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,560
because he was on it right? 
And and watching him and like, 

752
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,880
first of all, seeing Iron Chef 
in that, you know, again, no 

753
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:54,880
Google back in the days. 
I, I'm just gonna sound like a 

754
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,680
old guy. 
But like the only way you saw 

755
00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:03,440
that was passed around VHS tapes
that cuz somebody found some non

756
00:41:03,440 --> 00:41:08,120
translated Japanese stadium 
cooking show that this dude from

757
00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:12,120
San Francisco went on and 
crushed and and won battle 

758
00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:14,320
lobster. 
Well, and the crazy thing was is

759
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:15,840
he was. 
Correct me if I'm wrong. 

760
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:17,520
I'm. 
I'm, but I believe this. 

761
00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:19,280
The mayor of San Francisco hand 
selected him. 

762
00:41:19,360 --> 00:41:22,080
So, like, probably we need a 
chef to represent the United 

763
00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:25,840
States, to go to fucking Japan 
beyond this crazy stadium game 

764
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,480
show and fucking be the best of 
us. 

765
00:41:28,760 --> 00:41:30,800
Yeah, Be the best chance we have
to fucking win. 

766
00:41:30,800 --> 00:41:33,120
And they sent Ron Siegel and he 
fucking won. 

767
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,360
Yeah, yeah, he fucking won. 
He's a total fucking gangster. 

768
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:42,080
And I think, I don't think that 
I've ever said more than high 

769
00:41:42,080 --> 00:41:45,360
chef, big fan. 
Yeah, Like, I think that's my 

770
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:47,600
only the extent of our 
conversations ever. 

771
00:41:47,920 --> 00:41:53,960
But having seen him around and 
like, been in the same places at

772
00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,040
the same time, you know, like, 
he is just the most unassuming 

773
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:02,320
dude and like, not that Iron 
Chef guy, you know what I mean? 

774
00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:05,520
Like for him I wonder? 
I would love to hear his 

775
00:42:05,520 --> 00:42:07,600
perspective on that story. 
Yeah, I saw what I Ron. 

776
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:08,600
I don't know if you listen. 
To the show. 

777
00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:10,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You got AI got a chair for you? 

778
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,440
Yeah, I want to know what that 
was like. 

779
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:17,560
For sure and and like, you know 
his stuff that he did like my 

780
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,560
first. 
So he was at Charles Nob Hill, 

781
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,240
which Michael mean I ended up 
owning, I think. 

782
00:42:23,480 --> 00:42:29,600
But my experience at Charles Nob
Hill, because I was such a big 

783
00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:34,200
fan, I proposed to my wife on 
our anniversary, on our dating 

784
00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:38,240
anniversary and I was carrying 
around a ring with a little 

785
00:42:38,480 --> 00:42:44,000
proposal note in the box. 
And she gave me my anniversary 

786
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,640
present 1st. 
And it was a tie and a gift 

787
00:42:46,640 --> 00:42:49,680
certificate to Charles Nob Hill 
so I could go have bronze 

788
00:42:49,680 --> 00:42:54,640
tasting menu. 
And it was the first fancy fine 

789
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:57,040
dining tasting experience that 
I've ever been a part of. 

790
00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,720
And but it, like the the gift 
presentation, was overshadowed 

791
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:02,880
by me proposing. 
Was it was it a tasting menu 

792
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,200
back there or was it a la carte?
Do you remember? 

793
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:05,920
No, it was tasting for sure. 
Yeah, yeah. 

794
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,480
It was like, and you had a 
choice. 

795
00:43:07,480 --> 00:43:10,360
I can't remember how many 
courses, but it was a it was a 

796
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,680
we got the extended course, like
whatever. 

797
00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:17,440
And you know, when I met my wife
when we first started dating, 

798
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:22,760
she was like Lean Cuisines and 
like a medium oil filet or well 

799
00:43:22,760 --> 00:43:24,560
filet. 
And like we went there and it 

800
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:28,520
was like sweet breads and you 
know, like it just everything. 

801
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:30,840
And she was like a little 
hesitant, but she ate 

802
00:43:30,840 --> 00:43:33,120
everything. 
We still, I was saying something

803
00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:37,680
to her during that dinner that 
we still use now, right. 

804
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,760
Like when we go out with people,
it's like, taste it because if 

805
00:43:40,760 --> 00:43:42,880
you don't like it here, you're 
never going to like it. 

806
00:43:43,640 --> 00:43:45,240
That's that. 
I'll tell you. 

807
00:43:45,240 --> 00:43:46,880
That's a fucking true statement.
That's it. 

808
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,560
So if you don't like Ron 
Siegel's sweetbreads, you're 

809
00:43:49,560 --> 00:43:52,320
never going to like them, so you
may as well taste it now. 

810
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,480
Yeah, that's a great point. 
And and, you know, we're talking

811
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:59,880
about back in the day, we had 
like the food lovers companion. 

812
00:43:59,880 --> 00:44:01,840
What were the food lovers 
companion? 

813
00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,880
Dictionary chefs, Yes. 
Library chefs, Yeah. 

814
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:08,160
And then, you know, the next 
generation was the generation of

815
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:10,040
chefs that had Google for 
information. 

816
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:13,480
And then the third generation 
after that, the current ones, 

817
00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:15,400
the AI generation, right? 
You don't need Google. 

818
00:44:16,120 --> 00:44:20,920
But in, in my opinion, when we 
were coming up, I think you hit 

819
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,760
the nail on the head earlier 
when we were talking that one of

820
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,480
the things that I think people 
miss out is you had to learn it 

821
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:30,440
and you had to memorize it 
because. 

822
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:33,240
You, you, you. 
Needed to memorize the terms and

823
00:44:33,240 --> 00:44:36,480
the definitions and the recipes 
and things like that because you

824
00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:37,720
weren't going to look it up on 
your phone. 

825
00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:41,440
There was, if you didn't know 
it, there was no going back to, 

826
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:43,120
to, to the computer to figure it
out. 

827
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,640
You needed to know that 
information. 

828
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:49,640
And I think I mean, I remember 
when we were cooks, we'd like 

829
00:44:49,640 --> 00:44:51,960
quiz each other all the time. 
Like what is matignon? 

830
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,920
What is this, you know, tell us 
the five mother sauces. 

831
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,880
It was like constant, like 
breakdown a Chantilly. 

832
00:44:57,640 --> 00:44:59,880
Can you use powdered sugar? 
Can you have to use granulated? 

833
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:05,080
And also because, like, it's not
even if your place had recipes, 

834
00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:10,840
they would call for hollandaise,
there wouldn't be a sub recipe 

835
00:45:11,040 --> 00:45:14,440
for the mother sauce. 
It would just be whatever, you 

836
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,800
know what I mean? 
So like, what the hell? 

837
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:18,760
What is that? 
Like, I remember I had to look 

838
00:45:18,760 --> 00:45:21,240
up what a Dutch oven was. 
Yeah, because of the recipe. 

839
00:45:21,240 --> 00:45:23,400
I was making the soup and the 
recipe called for a Dutch oven. 

840
00:45:23,400 --> 00:45:25,600
I didn't know what it was. 
And I was like, how? 

841
00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,240
And there was nowhere to go. 
Like I had to like, keep calling

842
00:45:29,240 --> 00:45:32,960
people until I found like the 
food lovers companion. 

843
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:35,840
And it's crazy because you know 
that that food lover's companion

844
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:40,480
was like, it is it is what we 
fucking base you were talking 

845
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,960
about The the the in the back. 
There was like the grid. 

846
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,200
Yeah, not the grid, but like the
the there was bring down the. 

847
00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:49,160
Range measurement, conversion, 
smoke points, cuts of meat, like

848
00:45:49,160 --> 00:45:51,880
all that stuff. 
And I was talking to, I hired a,

849
00:45:52,240 --> 00:45:54,520
my, my new chef for the company 
I'm working with now. 

850
00:45:55,720 --> 00:45:57,720
He's younger. 
And I was telling him how 

851
00:45:57,720 --> 00:45:59,440
reliant I was on the food lovers
companion. 

852
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:01,200
He was like, oh, me too. 
You're not that old. 

853
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:02,560
I was like, no, but you don't 
understand. 

854
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:07,000
Like there was no, I was known 
not having it. 

855
00:46:07,120 --> 00:46:10,240
It was like having your phone. 
My chef would tell me something 

856
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,640
and it would just be like yes 
chef if. 

857
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:14,320
You don't know if it'll. 
Walk in and go look it up 

858
00:46:14,720 --> 00:46:16,600
otherwise. 
And then the same thing when we 

859
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:21,240
were talking about having 
recipes passed down from people 

860
00:46:21,240 --> 00:46:23,920
like professionals or 
craftspeople that did it from 

861
00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,000
one person to another. 
I have all these notes. 

862
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:32,840
I remember just like standing on
the line on Saute and writing 

863
00:46:32,840 --> 00:46:35,960
down the steps of everything 
that went into the pan sauce, 

864
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:37,760
right? 
Like start with this, start with

865
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:39,360
the, you know, next this, next 
this. 

866
00:46:39,680 --> 00:46:43,040
And I would write it down on my 
on a post it or my little 

867
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,960
notepad. 
And that was my recipe. 

868
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,680
Like if there was no like 
referring back or being able to 

869
00:46:49,680 --> 00:46:52,360
go ask, you know, like because 
they didn't want to hear from 

870
00:46:52,360 --> 00:46:56,160
me. 
Not the not the OG union cooks 

871
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:58,520
at the hotel, you know they 
didn't they didn't care and. 

872
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,960
It's funny because back in the 
day, you know I had one of these

873
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,720
recipe books I found like an old
notebook of mine with. 

874
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:06,240
It wasn't even a recipe, it was 
just method to pick up on the 

875
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,480
saute, add garlic, add. 
Shallots D plays you. 

876
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:13,400
Know so on and so forth but a 
lot of times and I'm you know I 

877
00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,200
talked to chefs all day you're 
talking about Gabe earlier 

878
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,560
sending you a recipe for 
tortillas right Yeah. 

879
00:47:19,160 --> 00:47:24,000
And I, and I think what people 
miss is that there's no secrets,

880
00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,240
like where everyone's sharing 
recipes all the time. 

881
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,280
Totally. 
And then you don't know where 

882
00:47:28,280 --> 00:47:30,120
they came from. 
And you might be in a restaurant

883
00:47:30,120 --> 00:47:31,480
five years later. 
Yeah. 

884
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:33,800
And then like, you've been 
making this recipe that was 

885
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,720
handed to you by one person, 
that was handed by another 

886
00:47:35,720 --> 00:47:37,280
person by it. 
And then and then someone 

887
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:38,600
notices all that came from this 
cookbooks. 

888
00:47:38,640 --> 00:47:39,880
Like, I didn't know. 
I never had that. 

889
00:47:40,000 --> 00:47:42,000
Right, 100%. 
This was handed to me. 

890
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:45,120
Three or four times. 
Yeah, once it's out there as a, 

891
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,320
you know, in the in the public 
domain, yeah, it's like it's 

892
00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:50,040
fair game at that point. 
Everyone's using it at their. 

893
00:47:50,040 --> 00:47:53,000
Restaurants, I mean, there was a
period of time and like the mid 

894
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,760
2000s where like the salmon 
cornet was everywhere with 

895
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,040
catering everywhere and, and 
whether it was like the actual 

896
00:47:59,040 --> 00:48:03,520
recipe or, or whatever, they 
were everywhere. 

897
00:48:03,520 --> 00:48:06,200
And then like you can buy the 
cornets and sometimes they're 

898
00:48:06,200 --> 00:48:08,200
sweet. 
There'd be like some shitty 

899
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,520
tartar in this sweet like ice 
cream cone thing. 

900
00:48:12,040 --> 00:48:15,720
And like these younger cooks 
would have no idea where it was 

901
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:18,680
from. 
And you, you, you know, like 

902
00:48:18,680 --> 00:48:20,680
they think they created 
something or whatever. 

903
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:25,440
And like, you know, the other 
thing I had AI had kind of a, 

904
00:48:25,680 --> 00:48:29,600
an, a, an epiphany moment when I
went, I moved to New York City 

905
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:34,880
in 2010 and I'd been going there
for work a bunch. 

906
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,560
But when I moved there in 2010, 
you know, I grew up listening to

907
00:48:39,560 --> 00:48:42,840
hip hop and punk rock. 
Hip hop 1st and then and then I 

908
00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:45,160
got into punk rock because the 
scenes were. 

909
00:48:45,160 --> 00:48:47,320
Very Bay Area hip hop. 
Yeah, no, no, no. 

910
00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,600
I was East Coast hip hop. 
I listened to the Cole Crush 

911
00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:53,880
brothers first, Cole Crush to 
Run DMC and then and I actually,

912
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,400
I hated Bay Area hip hop. 
But now, you know, it's like 

913
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:00,280
it's my DNA. 
So now it's just like my 

914
00:49:00,280 --> 00:49:01,800
childhood. 
So now I listen to everything. 

915
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,200
But like for years I hated, I 
hated West Coast rap at all. 

916
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,000
So it was all New York. 
But so when I went to New York, 

917
00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:13,920
from food to music, rap, punk 
rock, food, it was like a museum

918
00:49:14,080 --> 00:49:16,160
to me. 
Like New York was just like, it 

919
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:20,280
was like Mecca, you know, like 
every, every street I drove 

920
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:23,680
past, I either had some 
association with food or a hip 

921
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,840
hop lyric or like something from
the Beastie Boys or punk rock or

922
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,440
or whatever. 
And I started going to all the 

923
00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,120
restaurants that I had only read
about, like in Gourmet magazine 

924
00:49:36,120 --> 00:49:37,720
or whatever. 
Seen pictures because I don't 

925
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:39,920
read really. 
So the all the pictures that I 

926
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:44,640
saw I was going to look for. 
But I went to and I used to have

927
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,840
like this progressive brunch 
that I used to bring people on 

928
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:50,320
when they'd come to visit. 
There's a place called Mac Bar 

929
00:49:50,640 --> 00:49:52,920
that just served macaroni and 
cheese like out of this little 

930
00:49:52,920 --> 00:49:54,760
window. 
And they like have the coolest 

931
00:49:54,760 --> 00:49:57,920
merch and like they served the 
macaroni and cheese. 

932
00:49:57,920 --> 00:50:01,200
I'm like this yellow half. 
It looked like a piece of 

933
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,520
macaroni, right? 
Yeah, OK. 

934
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:06,880
It was the coolest branding. 
Food was mid, but it was like 

935
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,400
kind of a a must do. 
So we'd go to Mac bar donut 

936
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:14,720
plant and then WD-50 and we'd 
get the eggs Benedict or like 

937
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:18,840
the eggs quarantine at WD-50. 
And I had like this love, hate 

938
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:25,280
relationship with the, the, you 
know this. 

939
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:28,760
Like the molecular movement? 
Yeah, the molecular movement. 

940
00:50:28,760 --> 00:50:32,240
But like I went to a convert, I 
we had AI went to a talk with 

941
00:50:32,240 --> 00:50:35,200
Wiley and somebody was asking 
him about molecular gastronomy 

942
00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:39,120
back in the day and he like took
offense to it. 

943
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,120
Like he was like, what is 
molecular gastronomy? 

944
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,480
And so I still haven't really 
come up with that answer. 

945
00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,920
So I hesitate to call it the 
molecular movement, but I had 

946
00:50:46,920 --> 00:50:52,640
like this, I was so impressed 
with like the fried hollandaise 

947
00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:56,440
and like just the approach and 
making that dish and, and I went

948
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:58,760
there like probably once a week 
to have it. 

949
00:50:58,760 --> 00:51:04,360
It was fantastic. 
And but like I didn't know how 

950
00:51:04,360 --> 00:51:07,960
he made it and I would always 
just try to figure stuff out. 

951
00:51:08,400 --> 00:51:11,640
And then that same it was, I 
don't know if it was at the 

952
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,200
same. 
Well, it was around the same 

953
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:16,240
time period that it was 
Restaurant Week and I went to, 

954
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,640
while I'm trying to come to 
grips with my feeling about like

955
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,600
fried hollandaise and, and, you 
know, things that are done so 

956
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:29,360
well, but from a different 
standpoint of craftsmanship, 

957
00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:33,680
right. 
I went to Nougatine by John 

958
00:51:33,680 --> 00:51:36,800
George for Restaurant Week and 
my wife and I never stuck to 

959
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,000
Restaurant Week menus. 
We always got all the 

960
00:51:39,000 --> 00:51:40,960
supplements and ended up paying 
$1,000,000. 

961
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:43,840
And even though we went there 
for the $40 Restaurant Week 

962
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,000
menu, we just, everything was, 
yeah, we'll take the upgrade. 

963
00:51:47,680 --> 00:51:53,000
But we went to Nougatine and I 
stuck to the the menu and it was

964
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:57,600
a roasted chicken breast with 
chicken juice, mashed potatoes 

965
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:00,280
and green beans. 
And it was like still one of the

966
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,440
most memorable meals that I've 
had in New York. 

967
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,080
And it was like because. 
Because it was executed, it was 

968
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:08,000
just. 
Perfect like the chicken was 

969
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,560
perfect It was moist where it 
was supposed to be moist. 

970
00:52:10,560 --> 00:52:13,520
The skin was crispy mashed 
potatoes were velvety. 

971
00:52:13,520 --> 00:52:18,000
The, the chicken chew was super 
rich and the green beans were 

972
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:20,160
perfect. 
And it was just simple. 

973
00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:26,880
And I, I thought to myself, and 
I wrote it down like the 

974
00:52:26,880 --> 00:52:31,760
difference between the two 
approaches is like one of the 

975
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:36,320
way I put it was like, you know,
like a Willy Wonka is amazing, 

976
00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:40,880
but he's not really a chef, you 
know, like the, the John George 

977
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,560
aspect of it. 
And this is nothing to take away

978
00:52:45,560 --> 00:52:48,760
or give too much credit to 
either one of the approaches, 

979
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:58,880
but I am way more into just the 
classic cooking approach. 

980
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:06,280
But I also found that you can't 
be well-rounded or talk shit 

981
00:53:06,280 --> 00:53:08,800
about something unless you have 
a full understanding of how to 

982
00:53:08,800 --> 00:53:09,920
do it. 
Because then it looks like 

983
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,920
you're a quitter or it looks 
like you're, you know, just 

984
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:16,080
talking shit from the outside. 
And it's really easy to hate 

985
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:18,440
when you don't know how to do 
something, you know what I mean?

986
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:20,000
And. 
And Wiley is the Jean Schwarz 

987
00:53:20,040 --> 00:53:21,000
guy. 
Right, right. 

988
00:53:21,080 --> 00:53:25,280
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And and you know, like the other

989
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:30,200
thing was like I did an event, I
do a lot of catering and event 

990
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,920
production as well. 
And I did an event with somebody

991
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:39,280
and they were doing encapsulated
that some sort of encapsulation 

992
00:53:39,280 --> 00:53:43,600
and they were doing encapsulated
ranch or and I think the same. 

993
00:53:44,080 --> 00:53:46,680
Like reverse verification? 
Yeah. 

994
00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And it was like, you know, 

995
00:53:50,840 --> 00:53:56,960
there's nothing impressive about
because you. 

996
00:53:57,520 --> 00:53:59,040
Don't want to. 
You don't want to encapsulate a 

997
00:53:59,040 --> 00:54:01,960
ranch on your slicer. 
Pizza Yeah no, I mean that does 

998
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:06,920
sound kind of sound bomb or at 
least at least efficient but the

999
00:54:07,320 --> 00:54:14,440
you know the the they've the 
people that created the sodium 

1000
00:54:14,440 --> 00:54:20,080
alginate calcium citrate 
situation that is genius but you

1001
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,040
got to leave it with them you 
know what I mean? 

1002
00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:27,720
Like or understand it and let it
propel you to coming up with the

1003
00:54:27,720 --> 00:54:34,080
next thing. 
But like the more you maybe it's

1004
00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:37,680
not so much that you can't use 
it because it's not like I don't

1005
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:43,760
encapsulate stuff, but the it's 
more of respecting it and and 

1006
00:54:43,760 --> 00:54:47,200
treating it like, you know. 
Don't treat it like a joke. 

1007
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:48,400
Yeah, don't treat it like a 
joke. 

1008
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,960
And just because they made this 
thing, I mean, just think about 

1009
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:53,680
what it takes to come up with 
those two things. 

1010
00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:57,080
I mean, that's not cooking. 
That's just brilliance and 

1011
00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,880
science. 
Like, I, it's crazy to me. 

1012
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,840
Like I don't understand that 
aspect of things. 

1013
00:55:03,280 --> 00:55:05,640
But now that they've done it, 
it's really easy. 

1014
00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,560
Like now that I I mean. 
Like the person who invented the

1015
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:10,560
wheel. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1016
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,800
Yeah, I think my analogy is just
because you've learned how to 

1017
00:55:14,800 --> 00:55:18,160
play Stairway to Heaven doesn't 
mean you wrote it right, Right. 

1018
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,120
Exactly. 
Yeah, just cuz you know how to 

1019
00:55:20,120 --> 00:55:22,680
play it soft. 
Yeah, you're not gonna go do 

1020
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,400
open mics just playing Stairway 
to Heaven, Yeah. 

1021
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:27,880
Just just because, just because 
you know the fucking joke that 

1022
00:55:27,880 --> 00:55:29,600
you saw on the stand up special 
and you're repeating it? 

1023
00:55:29,600 --> 00:55:30,840
Yeah, yeah. 
Isn't being you're funny? 

1024
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,240
Yeah, 100. 
Percent right there. 

1025
00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:34,400
There's a certain, there's a 
certain art to it and a lot of 

1026
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:37,760
respect to those guys that were 
doing that movement of, you 

1027
00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:40,520
know, we have to classify it as 
molecular because I don't know 

1028
00:55:40,520 --> 00:55:42,160
what else to call it. 
So for the audience listening 

1029
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:43,240
like, hey, we're calling it 
this. 

1030
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:45,400
Yeah. 
If if you have a better word, 

1031
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:46,040
tell me. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1032
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,400
But a lot of chefs that were 
doing that and I, and I was one 

1033
00:55:49,400 --> 00:55:50,560
of them. 
I was one of those chefs that I 

1034
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:53,960
was, I was an early adopter of 
that style of food when I was in

1035
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,160
California and I was doing that 
and I found it fascinating. 

1036
00:55:56,520 --> 00:55:59,640
But I'll never forget when I 
came face to face with him. 

1037
00:55:59,640 --> 00:56:02,680
This was the reality that I 
faced is I remember, I don't 

1038
00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:04,120
know what I was doing. 
It was a mango sphere or 

1039
00:56:04,120 --> 00:56:05,240
something. 
It was one of these spheres 

1040
00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:07,720
reverse verification things. 
I remember I tasted I was like 

1041
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:10,160
but it just doesn't taste good. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1042
00:56:10,160 --> 00:56:11,840
Right, right, right. 
Yeah, like it was like it tastes

1043
00:56:11,840 --> 00:56:13,160
like mango with a little bit of 
you're. 

1044
00:56:13,240 --> 00:56:14,440
Doing it for the sake of doing 
it. 

1045
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:15,800
Right. 
It's like, I wanted it to be 

1046
00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:18,160
interesting. 
I wanted to be provocative and 

1047
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,000
show people things that they've 
never seen before. 

1048
00:56:20,320 --> 00:56:22,960
But it's like but it doesn't. 
It tastes as good as this. 

1049
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,040
Right. 
And it's in my opinion. 

1050
00:56:25,120 --> 00:56:30,040
The thing about that, that was 
the thing about the WD-50 

1051
00:56:30,040 --> 00:56:36,400
Hollandaise, it was perfect. 
It tasted perfect, like, and, 

1052
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,880
and it blew me away because 
again, I wasn't familiar enough 

1053
00:56:39,880 --> 00:56:42,040
with the technique when I used 
to go there and I used to try to

1054
00:56:42,040 --> 00:56:45,520
figure out how they did it all 
the time, like, oh God, what do 

1055
00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,920
you put in that? 
Like how to hold its form when 

1056
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:50,640
you fry it. 
Like I don't, I don't 

1057
00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:51,960
understand. 
And I would sit there, I would 

1058
00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:55,200
eat it every week and and you 
know, I've never sang with 

1059
00:56:55,200 --> 00:56:57,160
Wiley. 
I've never had more than like 2 

1060
00:56:57,160 --> 00:57:00,840
words conversation with him. 
And I would just sit there and 

1061
00:57:00,840 --> 00:57:04,280
try to understand it. 
And then like a drop of the 

1062
00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:08,200
hollandaise fell on my table 
like while I was eating and like

1063
00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:10,720
when it gets cold it solidifies 
and I could feel it. 

1064
00:57:10,720 --> 00:57:12,520
It was like a dip and dot sort 
of thing. 

1065
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:15,440
And I was like, huh, Well, now, 
I mean, now I understand it. 

1066
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,720
But like, I think with places 
like WD-50, for example, and the

1067
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:22,320
stuff that, you know, all those 
guys that I respect the hell out

1068
00:57:22,320 --> 00:57:25,040
of do. 
Yeah, The flavor is first, Yeah.

1069
00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:26,840
And while he's a. 
Pioneer and now he's doing 

1070
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:27,400
pizza. 
That's. 

1071
00:57:27,680 --> 00:57:29,760
That's wild. 
Doughnuts or whatever. 

1072
00:57:29,760 --> 00:57:31,600
Yeah, like the guy knows how to 
cook. 

1073
00:57:31,600 --> 00:57:34,200
Like I think people forget like 
they they put him into this box 

1074
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:37,600
of like being this, but it's 
like the dude, this is a fucking

1075
00:57:37,600 --> 00:57:40,480
gangster in the kitchen regard. 
Like in any realm. 

1076
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,800
Yeah, in any realm. 
Like you think you can't saute a

1077
00:57:42,800 --> 00:57:43,280
fucking? 
Chicken. 

1078
00:57:43,280 --> 00:57:45,360
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think. 
You can't roast a chicken too. 

1079
00:57:45,360 --> 00:57:47,920
Or make a fucking espanol. 
I think that's probably why I 

1080
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:50,400
was getting annoyed at the talk 
that I was listening to. 

1081
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,640
Yeah, so you do some work with 
Shaka Pen. 

1082
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:54,600
Yes. 
How does that come? 

1083
00:57:54,680 --> 00:57:56,680
Come to be, By the way, also a 
fucking legend. 

1084
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,080
One of the best books ever, 
right? 

1085
00:57:58,080 --> 00:58:00,640
La Technique, LA, I thought. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1086
00:58:00,720 --> 00:58:07,040
I mean, I was lucky enough the, 
the, the one of my business 

1087
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:13,320
partners and former head of my 
company obviously took a big 

1088
00:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,200
interest in the culinary arts 
and, and our discipline. 

1089
00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:23,680
And I found out about Jacques de
Panne Foundation at their first 

1090
00:58:23,720 --> 00:58:28,360
gala and we went and we were 
promoting our restaurant at the 

1091
00:58:28,360 --> 00:58:35,040
time, Butcher Town Grocery. 
And we got to meet Jacques, got 

1092
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:39,280
to meet the family. 
And we just kind of, I don't 

1093
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:45,160
know if it was like the first 
time that we went, but my wife 

1094
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,440
and I kind of became fast 
friends with his son-in-law, 

1095
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:51,800
Raleigh and Claudine, his 
daughter. 

1096
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:56,160
And so, and we've been friends, 
You know, we've done a bunch of 

1097
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,600
stuff since like we went to the 
Derby together, Kentucky Derby, 

1098
00:58:59,600 --> 00:59:03,120
all kinds of stuff. 
And I've been lucky enough to to

1099
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:06,120
be able to cook for Jacques at 
like the Greenwich Food and Wine

1100
00:59:06,120 --> 00:59:10,840
Festival, and he came to the 
opening of our senior living 

1101
00:59:10,840 --> 00:59:17,600
restaurant and Hudson Yards and 
all kinds of really cool stuff 

1102
00:59:17,600 --> 00:59:20,400
has happened as a result of the 
JPF. 

1103
00:59:20,400 --> 00:59:23,320
And I'm lucky enough now that 
they trust me to kind of be an 

1104
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:27,280
ambassador for them. 
So like for 90 for 90 Jacques 

1105
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:33,280
birthday initiative that they 
did last year, they had 90 

1106
00:59:33,280 --> 00:59:36,280
cooking events and 90 different 
venues in honor of Jacques 90th 

1107
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:40,320
birthday. 
So Jacques is 90 and still like,

1108
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:45,120
he still does demos like his. 
His hands are ridiculous. 

1109
00:59:45,120 --> 00:59:48,440
PBS series back in the day when 
when he would like teach you how

1110
00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,200
to debone a chicken for 
Ballantine or the French and all

1111
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,200
he's just he's fucking amazing 
like he's. 

1112
00:59:54,640 --> 00:59:57,040
It's 1. 
Of the the greats, he's one of 

1113
00:59:57,040 --> 00:59:58,480
the greats. 
He's in his own category. 

1114
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:00,720
Yeah, yeah. 
The coolest thing about being 

1115
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:09,240
around, being able to be at 
those events is seeing Danielle,

1116
01:00:09,240 --> 01:00:15,320
John George, Danny Meyer, 
anybody, anybody who who you can

1117
01:00:15,320 --> 01:00:19,360
think of the coolest people, the
people that would be the coolest

1118
01:00:19,360 --> 01:00:24,320
people in any room are all. 
Enamored was Jacques like 

1119
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:28,920
there's no he is the most 
respected person that I've ever 

1120
01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:33,800
seen in the hospitality industry
and having to have had the 

1121
01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:37,320
opportunity to hang out with him
like personally and then you 

1122
01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:42,240
know, like do stuff outside of 
events and stuff with him it he 

1123
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:48,760
is the most genuine real person 
that I've ever been around from.

1124
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:53,200
I've never met him. 
It's so crazy, and it's almost 

1125
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,560
like a negative thing because 
we'll sit having a conversation 

1126
01:00:58,040 --> 01:01:02,280
and all of a sudden we're equals
in my mind because the 

1127
01:01:02,280 --> 01:01:04,440
conversation is so normal and 
chill. 

1128
01:01:05,040 --> 01:01:08,040
And I'm trying to relate. 
He was telling me about his 

1129
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:10,600
garden at one point that he was 
taken care of. 

1130
01:01:10,600 --> 01:01:11,760
And I was like, yeah, would you 
grow? 

1131
01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:12,680
I had this. 
Whatever. 

1132
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:13,880
And he was like, no, this wasn't
mine. 

1133
01:01:13,880 --> 01:01:16,120
This is Michelle Obama's like at
the White House. 

1134
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:22,080
And I was like, yeah, we are not
alike, but isn't. 

1135
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:27,440
That so cool that like everyone 
sees Jacques, then you see him 

1136
01:01:27,440 --> 01:01:31,960
as like up here and and that's 
probably even better like that. 

1137
01:01:32,000 --> 01:01:34,480
And I'll, you know, I have a 
very similar situation where 

1138
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:39,080
Thomas Keller sat down. 
I was at a table and was like 

1139
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:43,320
Matthew Peters, Philip Tessier, 
myself, Lauren Peters, Phil 

1140
01:01:43,320 --> 01:01:46,840
Tessier's wife. 
And then Thomas came and sat 

1141
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:50,600
down with us and talking and it 
was like one of the best moments

1142
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:54,720
I've ever had because he just 
was normal. 

1143
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:58,000
Like, he wasn't Thomas Keller. 
He was just, yeah, he was just 

1144
01:01:58,000 --> 01:01:59,160
talking. 
We were just having a 

1145
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,440
conversation about whatever we 
happen to be talking about. 

1146
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:04,520
And I remember thinking to 
myself at that moment, it was it

1147
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:08,000
was a very beautiful moment. 
I was like, you know what? 

1148
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:13,280
To me, seeing him normal is all 
is almost better than seeing 

1149
01:02:13,280 --> 01:02:14,920
Thomas Kelly, if that makes 
sense. 

1150
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:17,920
And while you're saying that, 
though, that I just kind of had 

1151
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:21,200
this light go off like, you 
know, it's the other really cool

1152
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:26,320
thing about our industry and 
what we do because you can just 

1153
01:02:26,400 --> 01:02:31,200
because we all just cook, like 
ultimately it's just cooking. 

1154
01:02:31,600 --> 01:02:36,040
And like to watch, like to see 
Jacques just move around like a 

1155
01:02:36,320 --> 01:02:38,360
house party, you know, like. 
And. 

1156
01:02:38,400 --> 01:02:42,280
And Raleigh, his son-in-law 
tells me that one of the best 

1157
01:02:42,280 --> 01:02:46,520
meals, forgive me if I'm quoting
this wrong, Raleigh, but one of 

1158
01:02:46,520 --> 01:02:50,800
his best meals that he had was 
after they cooked a bunch of 

1159
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:55,400
chickens for a a dinner party. 
Jacques took the carcasses and 

1160
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:58,360
roasted them again. 
And they ate those as their 

1161
01:02:58,360 --> 01:02:59,440
dinner the next night. 
Wow. 

1162
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,120
And Raleigh was like, it was 
like the best thing that I ever 

1163
01:03:02,120 --> 01:03:02,920
had. 
How cool is that? 

1164
01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:05,040
And And it's like, it's just 
you. 

1165
01:03:05,080 --> 01:03:07,000
You demystify. 
Yeah. 

1166
01:03:07,080 --> 01:03:09,120
Everything. 
And it's he he likes to paint, 

1167
01:03:09,120 --> 01:03:09,560
right? 
Yeah. 

1168
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:10,000
Oh, yeah. 
Yeah. 

1169
01:03:10,000 --> 01:03:15,280
So I have one of his one of his 
paintings that he, he did 

1170
01:03:15,320 --> 01:03:16,400
lithograph. 
Yeah. 

1171
01:03:17,040 --> 01:03:21,080
Yung Yun, who's part of Mentor 
BKB, gave it to me as a gift and

1172
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,520
it's like one of my prized 
possessions on my wall in my 

1173
01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:26,280
office. 
We have we have AI have it in my

1174
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:32,720
house now, but we we got my my 
buddy bought the one of the 

1175
01:03:32,720 --> 01:03:35,880
first Roosters the and it's this
big. 

1176
01:03:35,920 --> 01:03:38,600
It's it's huge. 
And we had it hanging over the 

1177
01:03:38,640 --> 01:03:41,120
entrance of our kitchen at the 
restaurant. 

1178
01:03:41,200 --> 01:03:43,680
So like everybody had to pass by
Jacques. 

1179
01:03:43,680 --> 01:03:47,320
And then when we open this place
in Hudson Yards, it was behind 

1180
01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:50,720
the the major D stand. 
So like everybody, you had to 

1181
01:03:50,720 --> 01:03:53,120
pay homage to to Jacques every 
time you. 

1182
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:54,520
Walk. 
If Jacques is ever down here in 

1183
01:03:54,520 --> 01:03:57,440
Texas, please invite me to. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'd love to 

1184
01:03:57,480 --> 01:03:59,600
meet. 
He's well the big gala is April 

1185
01:03:59,600 --> 01:04:02,320
9th at Chelsea Piers. 
Yeah in in New York. 

1186
01:04:02,400 --> 01:04:11,200
I, I, I, I did a bourbon 
experience, the best of Kentucky

1187
01:04:11,600 --> 01:04:15,840
experience for an auction item 
for the JPF that they're going 

1188
01:04:15,840 --> 01:04:19,040
to be auctioning off. 
And I'm kind of the I'm part of 

1189
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,120
the package as your your bourbon
concierge phone a friend. 

1190
01:04:22,120 --> 01:04:23,040
Yeah, what's up with the 
bourbon? 

1191
01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:27,720
With the bourbon here. 
So having lived in Kentucky, my 

1192
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,760
company, my senior living 
company, Atria and Coterie that 

1193
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,800
I got permission to say they 
Adrian Coterie, that they're 

1194
01:04:35,800 --> 01:04:39,840
based in Louisville, KY. 
And so I lived there. 

1195
01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:45,000
I worked there for like 10 
years, but actually, sorry for 

1196
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:49,160
20 years, but I actually lived 
there for a little over 8 and we

1197
01:04:49,160 --> 01:04:53,480
had a we have a restaurant there
that closed and COVID, but the 

1198
01:04:53,480 --> 01:04:56,000
bakery is still open, 
Butchertown Grocery bakery. 

1199
01:04:56,520 --> 01:05:00,480
But I got kind of my 
indoctrination to bourbon with 

1200
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:01,760
opening the restaurant. 
I see it. 

1201
01:05:01,880 --> 01:05:04,000
Yeah, yeah, that's for you. 
You can open that up. 

1202
01:05:04,000 --> 01:05:06,040
Thank you and people. 
Can see it on the camera. 

1203
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,320
We've done we've done lots of 
single barrels. 

1204
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:12,880
So I got to learn a lot about 
Kentucky and Kentucky bourbon 

1205
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:15,120
and it's actually the only thing
that I drink now. 

1206
01:05:15,120 --> 01:05:18,200
When I do, it's only bourbon and
now as. 

1207
01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:20,280
Well, by the way, these days. 
Well, there you go. 

1208
01:05:20,280 --> 01:05:22,360
Yeah. 
And now I'm working for this 

1209
01:05:22,360 --> 01:05:27,320
company called Urban Still House
and Horse Soldier Bourbon. 

1210
01:05:27,680 --> 01:05:32,280
So that this thing I tried to I 
was trying to kind of slow down 

1211
01:05:32,280 --> 01:05:34,720
and. 
People find it everywhere. 

1212
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:37,000
Yeah, that's distributed 
everywhere. 

1213
01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:40,360
Horse Soldier bourbon is 
distributed everywhere and we 

1214
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:42,200
take it out, take it out, look 
at the bottle because of the 

1215
01:05:42,200 --> 01:05:45,960
bottle is kind of cool. 
So this, the story about this, 

1216
01:05:47,440 --> 01:05:51,760
this is started, the bourbon is 
started by the group of Green 

1217
01:05:51,760 --> 01:05:54,320
Berets that went to Afghanistan 
after 911. 

1218
01:05:54,800 --> 01:06:00,560
And this is not them kind of 
being sponsored and figureheads 

1219
01:06:00,560 --> 01:06:02,960
for a bourbon company. 
This is them, they make it. 

1220
01:06:03,120 --> 01:06:06,400
They they came back. 
The bottle is the, is the shape 

1221
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:09,320
of a canteen and it fits in a 
canteen holder. 

1222
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:13,560
Yeah. 
And there's some really cool 

1223
01:06:13,560 --> 01:06:16,880
stories. 
If you you can Google it to look

1224
01:06:16,880 --> 01:06:18,520
up Horse Soldier Bourbon, I 
will. 

1225
01:06:18,520 --> 01:06:26,280
And but the, the bottle itself, 
it's formed like all bottles are

1226
01:06:26,280 --> 01:06:29,760
formed in these little bottle 
forms that are made of steel. 

1227
01:06:30,080 --> 01:06:34,640
And this one is formed with 
steel from the World Trade 

1228
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,880
Center. 
And so every bottle touches a 

1229
01:06:37,880 --> 01:06:39,920
piece of the fallen World Trade 
Center. 

1230
01:06:40,080 --> 01:06:44,640
And, and this it's, I'm lucky 
enough to be connected with 

1231
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:45,920
them. 
And we're kind of back full 

1232
01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:49,280
circle with the starting on an 
aircraft carrier and being a 

1233
01:06:49,280 --> 01:06:51,160
military cook and then learn 
bourbon. 

1234
01:06:51,160 --> 01:06:56,640
And now I'm back home in Florida
and yeah, but I think this is 

1235
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,080
one of my favorite ones. 
This is the the straight. 

1236
01:06:59,880 --> 01:07:01,880
I think I know, I think I know 
what I'm having for dinner. 

1237
01:07:01,880 --> 01:07:05,360
Today, that's what's. 
Up chef when we start wrapping 

1238
01:07:05,360 --> 01:07:08,280
up I I usually have a couple of 
questions that I like to ask. 

1239
01:07:08,680 --> 01:07:11,640
So the first one I'm going to 
ask you is if you have a a a 

1240
01:07:11,680 --> 01:07:14,560
kitchen salt that you use like 
your all-purpose kitchen salt 

1241
01:07:14,560 --> 01:07:15,800
for everything. 
Yes. 

1242
01:07:15,800 --> 01:07:21,920
Which one do you use? 
I think all well, my pass, I was

1243
01:07:21,920 --> 01:07:23,760
just talking with my chef about 
this the other day. 

1244
01:07:24,120 --> 01:07:32,520
My pass has plain mold and smoke
molding and black mold and it's 

1245
01:07:32,520 --> 01:07:35,680
I don't think the black is 
actually molding, but it's a 

1246
01:07:35,680 --> 01:07:39,160
black crystal salt. 
I use all those for finishing 

1247
01:07:39,160 --> 01:07:40,600
and then the kitchen is just 
only. 

1248
01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:43,560
Kosher like diamond crystal, 
Diamond crystal, Diamond 

1249
01:07:43,560 --> 01:07:46,680
crystal, yeah, yes. 
And do you have like a go to 

1250
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,880
finishing acid? 
Like is it lemon? 

1251
01:07:48,880 --> 01:07:50,600
Is it vinegar? 
Is it something else? 

1252
01:07:51,000 --> 01:07:55,440
Yeah, for I am big into zest, 
yeah. 

1253
01:07:55,440 --> 01:08:00,280
And so also on my past, I have a
bowl of citrus OK, and so and I 

1254
01:08:00,280 --> 01:08:01,800
have a just. 
Rasp it really quick. 

1255
01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:06,720
Yes yeah but I have AI always 
have an all-purpose vinaigrette 

1256
01:08:06,920 --> 01:08:10,680
that is just citrus and olive 
oil and salt pepper, not 

1257
01:08:10,680 --> 01:08:12,920
emulsified. 
I just use that so everything 

1258
01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,760
gets a hint of flavor. 
Yeah, a specific citrus or just 

1259
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:21,279
any? 
Whatever's good, I, I vacillate 

1260
01:08:21,439 --> 01:08:25,200
like and usually I'll try to 
combine all three like lemon, 

1261
01:08:25,200 --> 01:08:30,319
orange and lime because I like, 
I like the real acidity of the 

1262
01:08:30,359 --> 01:08:33,640
lemon, I like the sweetness of 
the orange and I like the the 

1263
01:08:33,640 --> 01:08:37,359
limeyness of the lime. 
And do you do you have like a 

1264
01:08:37,359 --> 01:08:39,479
specific go to olive oil that 
you use for finishing? 

1265
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,960
Moanin I like. 
And then The funny thing is I 

1266
01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:54,160
have a well, my, one of my, my 
development chef Ben has a house

1267
01:08:54,160 --> 01:08:57,760
in Greece and, and he's got a 
little olive orchard and they, 

1268
01:08:57,760 --> 01:09:01,120
he'll bring me back olive oil 
like once a year. 

1269
01:09:01,319 --> 01:09:03,800
And so that, that's for the 
house. 

1270
01:09:03,960 --> 01:09:10,399
But then at work, yeah, it's I 
don't really have one particular

1271
01:09:10,399 --> 01:09:14,000
one. 
I'm always into olive oil and 

1272
01:09:14,000 --> 01:09:17,560
finishing oils. 
If you had advice to give to a 

1273
01:09:17,560 --> 01:09:19,760
young chef, a young cook that's 
just starting out in their 

1274
01:09:19,760 --> 01:09:21,920
career, and I'm asking this 
specifically because you've 

1275
01:09:21,920 --> 01:09:24,760
worked in so many different 
styles of kitchens, Yep. 

1276
01:09:25,479 --> 01:09:29,479
Where would you advise people to
kind of start making their 

1277
01:09:29,479 --> 01:09:31,160
bones? 
If if it was just a general 

1278
01:09:31,160 --> 01:09:32,760
person that says I don't know 
where I'm going. 

1279
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:37,200
For me, but this is like my 
legit answer because I just tell

1280
01:09:37,200 --> 01:09:42,120
people to go cook anywhere, like
go cook in a restaurant, 

1281
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,200
preferably not fast food, not 
there is anything wrong with 

1282
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:47,240
fast food. 
And like I, I could go down how 

1283
01:09:47,240 --> 01:09:51,960
many rabbit holes that you made 
me think of with being recruited

1284
01:09:51,960 --> 01:09:56,440
by Taco Bell or I'm like just, 
you know, there is something to 

1285
01:09:56,440 --> 01:10:01,240
be said for all of the studies 
and efficiencies that fast food 

1286
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,360
places have made. 
And I geeked out on that. 

1287
01:10:04,360 --> 01:10:09,120
I developed a commissary and and
I do all kinds of Labor studies 

1288
01:10:09,120 --> 01:10:12,640
and it's that I could geek out 
on that as much as I could geek 

1289
01:10:12,640 --> 01:10:17,840
out on flavors, but just cook. 
Go somewhere where you actually 

1290
01:10:17,840 --> 01:10:21,680
have to use a pan, actually have
to use a flat top and burn 

1291
01:10:21,680 --> 01:10:24,960
yourself and cut yourself and 
figure out if it's you like the 

1292
01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:28,640
you know, I always have. 
My other saying is, you know, 

1293
01:10:28,680 --> 01:10:33,720
the the stove is the same 
whatever restaurant you go to. 

1294
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,120
Like the stove with the French 
Laundry is the same as the one 

1295
01:10:36,120 --> 01:10:39,920
that Outback Steakhouse. 
And I'm like maybe a little bit 

1296
01:10:39,920 --> 01:10:43,640
different Btus and a fancier 
brand, but it does the same 

1297
01:10:43,640 --> 01:10:44,880
thing. 
Yeah. 

1298
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:48,640
And and Jacques, back to Jacques
le Pan, they have a shirt. 

1299
01:10:49,400 --> 01:10:52,600
He's got a saying, and I have 
the the shirt that says that 

1300
01:10:52,600 --> 01:10:54,200
we're all equals in the eyes and
stuff. 

1301
01:10:54,880 --> 01:10:57,880
And so if, if you can, you can. 
If you can't, you can't. 

1302
01:10:58,120 --> 01:10:59,440
Right. 
I love that. 

1303
01:10:59,480 --> 01:11:02,840
And if you had your Mount 
Rushmore 4 chefs that should be 

1304
01:11:02,840 --> 01:11:06,600
on there, who are they? 
That's a tough one. 

1305
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,720
Well, obviously, Ron Siegel how 
that we've been talking about 

1306
01:11:09,720 --> 01:11:23,320
him, Jacques Thomas and oh, 
there's so many. 

1307
01:11:23,720 --> 01:11:25,960
I'm just going to go Jose 
Andres. 

1308
01:11:26,240 --> 01:11:28,680
There you go, chef. 
Where can people find you if 

1309
01:11:28,680 --> 01:11:30,800
they want to follow you on 
social media, If they want to 

1310
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:33,800
eat your food, If they want to 
drink some whiskey, Where? 

1311
01:11:33,800 --> 01:11:35,080
Where could they? 
Where could they follow? 

1312
01:11:35,080 --> 01:11:41,120
Along so you follow me at on 
Instagram, I'm hand that feeds 

1313
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:46,280
my bakery is or the bakery that 
I'm partners with shout out 

1314
01:11:46,280 --> 01:11:53,120
Amanda Butchertown grocery 
bakery online and then the 

1315
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:56,080
company that I'm working with 
now is horse soldier bourbon and

1316
01:11:56,080 --> 01:12:00,400
urban still house urban still 
house in Saint Pete, Florida and

1317
01:12:00,400 --> 01:12:02,560
one in Somerset, KY, soon to be 
more. 

1318
01:12:02,760 --> 01:12:04,960
Awesome, this was fun. 
Let's go get some Not a Damn 

1319
01:12:04,960 --> 01:12:06,400
Chance burger. 
Yeah, Yeah, let's do it. 

1320
01:12:06,400 --> 01:12:07,200
All right. 
Thank you. 

1321
01:12:07,520 --> 01:12:09,440
Cheers. 
All right, that's the show. 

1322
01:12:09,440 --> 01:12:11,960
If you liked it, make sure you 
leave five stars, nothing less 

1323
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:14,400
than five stars. 
If you want more chefs, PSA, go 

1324
01:12:14,400 --> 01:12:17,120
to chefspsa.com. 
Get yourself some books, get 

1325
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yourself some merch, including 
Culinary Leadership Fundamentals

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01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:21,520
and the Line Cook Survival 
Manual. 

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01:12:21,520 --> 01:12:23,880
If you want early access to 
episodes, you can get them on 

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Spotify and Substack by becoming
a paid member. 

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The link is in the notes.