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Hello chefs. 
You're listening to chefs, PS a 

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podcast. 
I'm your host on Trina. 

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Tara, today we are going to get 
into culinary school So culinary

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school is probably you know a 
pretty controversial topic. 

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I know a lot of chefs are very 
interested and you know I'm 

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going to add fuel to the fire on
either side whether you're Pro 

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culinary school or your anti 
culinary school. 

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But I think from a chef's 
perspective it's important that 

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we discuss it that we talk about
the pros and cons what to expect

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in culinary school. 
What to expect when you get out 

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of college, Our schools, some of
the differences between culinary

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school and the real world. 
But most importantly, I think 

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this gives if nothing else. 
It's an opportunity to begin 

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dialogue and there's no right or
wrong because everyone has a 

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different path and some people 
need school and some people 

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don't. 
But nonetheless, I just want to 

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make sure that we're opening up 
the dialogue and discussion and 

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I don't have a hard stance 
either way whether I'm Pro 

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culinary school or anti culinary
school. 

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So I think it's important that 
we establish that first With 

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that being said, I did go to 
culinary school. 

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I went to the Western Culinary 
Institute in Portland, Oregon. 

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This was 1995. 
I graduated in 1996 and when I 

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was going to culinary school 
things were much different, the 

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Western Culinary Institute 
became a Le Cordon Bleu, but it 

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was, it was, it was new for me. 
I didn't know anything. 

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I was 17 years old, I didn't 
even know what's called culinary

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school. 
I thought I was going to Chef 

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school. 
As I like to call is like, I'm 

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going to Chef school, but in 
reality I was going to culinary 

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school. 
I didn't Know what that word 

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meant and the way I found it 
back then was you know I would I

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would buy bone Appétit magazine 
and I would look in the back and

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they used to have advertisements
for culinary schools and it was 

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CIA Culinary Institute of 
America Johnson & Wales 

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Scottsdale the California 
Culinary Academy. 

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And then the Western Culinary 
Institute that was that was 

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pretty much the only schools 
that were advertising at the 

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time. 
So I had decided that I wanted 

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to go to school because I need 
it to work. 

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I really didn't have any other 
Since in life, you know it's get

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into a lot of trouble. 
I wanted to I wanted to be a 

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fighter. 
I want to be a professional 

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fighter, my parents didn't think
it was the best thing for me. 

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So I said well, culinary school 
seems easy, you know, I don't 

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need to go to college for four 
years or whatever. 

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This seemed relatively easy at 
the time. 

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I thought this is an easy career
path, cooking. 

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Seems easy boy. 
Was I wrong? 

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It wasn't what I, it wasn't what
I signed up for, but like I 

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said, it wasn't my initial 
passion. 

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But what I discovered is that 
when I was in school, I quickly 

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fell in love with it. 
Really fell in love with the 

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idea of becoming a chef. 
And since then, I've gone to 

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continuing education courses in 
the CIA and st. 

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Helena, California in Hyde Park,
New York and then also in San 

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Antonio, I think once or twice. 
So I've I'm a firm believer in 

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culinary education, there's 
online culinary program that 

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I've also taken and completed 
and that's Ruby which is an 

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online culinary school because 
I'm an education junkie, I 

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always want to get some sort of 
Competitive Edge as a chef and 

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learn a little Will do something
or what else? 

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Could I learn as a chef? 
So me personally, I've attended 

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school probably more than 
others. 

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Like I said, I've completed an 
online course. 

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I graduated from culinary school
and I've taken I think, at least

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three or four continuing 
education courses at the CIA. 

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I was also a commencement 
speaker and I for Le Cordon Bleu

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schools. 
I sat on their board for quite 

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some time. 
And then, I think I delivered 

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one of the most recent Moment, 
graduation addresses for The 

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Culinary Institute in San 
Antonio. 

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So I'm a big proponent of 
culinary school, but I know a 

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lot of people are not. 
So me, personally, I am. 

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I do think that for myself as an
individual, I did need that 

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extra education because I'm an 
education junkie. 

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I read a ton of books, you know?
And I think I've talked about 

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this on other podcasts. 
I read about a book a week and I

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try to hit about 50 books, a 
year. 

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I love to read, I love to 
educate myself. 

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So for people like me that just 
love the Educational aspect of 

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culinary school. 
I do think that it is something 

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that you should consider. 
If you could afford it and you 

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love to educate yourself, you 
should go to culinary school but

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I want to talk about what really
happens when you go to culinary 

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school. 
And when you graduate culinary 

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school and I'll share this story
with you, I did an Instagram 

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video on this. 
The other day is when I was in 

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culinary school the instructor 
was, you know, he was given a 

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discourse for us and he talked 
about how when we Graduate. 

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You know, we're going to get our
diploma in culinary arts and we 

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could use that diploma and go to
the American culinary, to 

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American culinary Federation and
became a certified cook. 

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So I remember hearing that and I
was a bit shocked, I said 

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certified cook. 
I'm going to culinary school. 

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I've moved two thousand miles 
away from home to educate, 

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myself to become a chef. 
As I thought I was in Chef 

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school. 
When you graduate, I was going 

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to be the chef and I remember 
raising my hand and I said you 

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said we're going to become 
certified Cooks, don't you mean 

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will become chefs and He laughed
and all the culinary in. 

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School instructors also laughed 
in the like know when you 

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graduate you're going to be a 
cook and you're going to work in

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kitchens for years and it might 
take you 10 to 20 years before 

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you're ever a chef and times 
were different. 

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Then I think now I think that's 
probably not as true as it was 

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back then. 
I think you could become a chef 

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in a much shorter time, just 
because of the access to 

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information through social media
through video platforms like 

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YouTube, continuing education 
courses, like, B or really great

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online programs. 
Like chefsteps, I think this 

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helps shorten your career 
trajectory, you could become a 

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chef and much shorter time but 
it was the norm, there was 40, 

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50 year-old executive, Sous 
chefs that were waiting in line 

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for their chef to retire so they
can move up that wasn't 

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uncommon. 
So for me, I was, I was a little

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bit devastated. 
When I found out that upon 

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graduation, I was not going to 
become a chef. 

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So for people that are In school
right now and if you think when 

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you graduate you're going to be 
a chef, that's probably not the 

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case. 
Most likely you're going to 

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start at the bottom, you know, 
depending on how high end the 

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kitchen is that you work? 
You know, if you're starting in 

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a Michelin Star Kitchen, you're 
going to start at the bottom. 

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There's no way that they're 
going to put you in a position 

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of leadership, much less, 
probably not even on the line, 

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you're probably going to start 
peeling, you know, peeling 

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vegetables or putting away the 
produce. 

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So that's the reality of it, it 
doesn't matter. 

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You graduated, because the fact 
of the matter is, everyone else 

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in the kitchen, especially in 
these high-end kitchens, 

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everyone else went to culinary 
school, everyone else has ten 

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times more experience and 
knowledge than you do. 

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So understand that culinary 
school in a lot of kitchens 

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that's just price of Entry, that
just gets your resume looked at 

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in that gets your, your foot in 
the door, but it does not 

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guarantee a position when you 
graduate. 

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So I think that's something that
a lot of young chefs and Cooks 

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need to understand when it comes
to when I graduate, will I 

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become a chef And the answer is 
probably not. 

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So if the answer is no, you're 
not going to be a chef when you 

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graduate, then the question 
becomes. 

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Do you need culinary school? 
And the fact of the matter is no

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you don't, you could become a 
chef without having gone to 

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culinary school. 
There's many great chefs out 

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there that never went to 
culinary school that learned the

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old-fashioned way. 
They wanted to a great kitchen, 

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they worked under a great chef 
and they work their way up. 

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And for some people that's the 
way to do it. 

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They don't like, they don't like
sitting in classrooms. 

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They want to get into the action
right away and they go that 

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route. 
So there's There's nothing that 

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says you have to have a degree 
in order to become a chef and I 

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can tell you, I've been an 
executive chef nine times for 

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restaurants hotels Resorts 
corporate Chef Etc. 

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And never once did anyone ask to
see my diploma? 

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And as a chef who's hired other 
chefs, never once did I ask them

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to see their diploma, it doesn't
matter. 

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Once you're in the industry, 
people don't look at your resume

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and say, oh, you didn't go to 
culinary school. 

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We're not going to hire you. 
It matters what you've done. 

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In the industry. 
So where have you worked? 

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What have you done? 
What have you accomplished? 

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That matters more so than it 
does? 

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Hey, I went to such and such 
school that like I said that's 

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that's just price of entry and 
the fact of the matter is most 

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of the people when you graduate 
will have a lot more experience 

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than you do. 
So it's a reality check like 

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you're going to go into a 
kitchen and your think your 

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little bit puffed up, I just 
graduated from culinary school. 

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I'm going to be able to tell 
people what to do and people 

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Pilar going to have a hard time 
respecting. 

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You like you're not the chef, I 
have way more experience than 

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you. 
I've been doing this for 10 

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years you just went to school. 
You have no experience. 

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How are you going to tell me 
what to do? 

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And sometimes that's that's a 
sad reality of a lot of kitchens

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until you understand that the 
currency that you exchange with 

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other Cooks is really, you know,
your ability to cook on the 

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line, your ability to prep, 
that's what's going to bring you

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value. 
Not the diploma, the diploma 

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like I said is going to get you 
in the door, it's going to give 

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you confidence. 
It's going to give you a 

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foundation. 
Shouldn't from which to build on

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but you're on your own, your 
teachers, aren't there to help 

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you anymore. 
So I think it's really important

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that people understand that 
because sometimes it can be a 

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shock. 
You know, you've you're in 

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culinary school and you're 
working on a project with the 

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team for two or three hours and 
then you get into the kitchen 

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and it's like, oh shit, there is
no team. 

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It's just me and I have a 
mountain of prep to get done by 

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myself. 
That is that is a real situation

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and no one's going to help you 
and if you don't get it done, 

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you might lose your job. 
So It's important that you start

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to think about that. 
Transition from culinary school 

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to the real world of kitchens. 
And I highly recommend that if 

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you're in culinary school right 
now and you're listening to 

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this, get a job in the industry 
start working as a chef in 

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part-time full-time, on the 
weekends, whatever you can is 

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start getting exposed to that 
kitchen environment because it 

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is very different from the 
classroom, the pace and 

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intensity is, you know, it's 
tenfold when it comes to the 

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speed that people expect from 
you and the workload that you 

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get From working on a project in
a group with a bunch of students

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versus working on a project with
no group with a deadline by a 

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chef that needs it done 
yesterday. 

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And I'll share a little story 
with you. 

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So I used to I won't say which 
culinary schools. 

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But I used to partner with a lot
of culinary schools and they 

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would ask me to go in and have a
conversation with the students 

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because there's a lot of things 
that the instructors are aware 

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of that. 
They, you know, they really are 

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not going to say to the students
but they, you know, they're a 

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little bit afraid for the 
students and they like, hey, I 

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can't say this to them but you 
don't work for us. 

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Can you come in and have a 
scared straight so to speak 

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conversation with the students? 
So I would go in and give them 

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interview tips and you know 
what, it's going to be. 

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When you get into a kitchen and 
I would be shocked, sometimes 

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I'd be appalled. 
Like I could I could recall the 

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time that I went into this 
culinary school and it was like 

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it was just like being in high 
school. 

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Again, the kids were so 
disrespectful to some of the 

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instructors. 
I remember, when I walked into 

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to give a little lecture, one of
the students had their feet on 

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the table, they were rolling 
their eyes. 

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When I was talking and I'm 
trying to be respectful, you 

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know, I'm in their school, but I
was thinking you don't realize 

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like you could be disrespectful 
of little bit when you're in 

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culinary school and you could 
get away with it because you're 

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paying for it, right? 
So the teachers might be willing

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to put up with a little bit 
more. 

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Like when you're in high school 
like, okay, you're paying me, 

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you're paying my salary. 
I get it. 

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I want you to graduate. 
I understand that, you know, you

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have a little bit of a chip on 
your shoulder, but I was as this

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was happening, I was thinking, 
if this was in the real world 

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you be fired. 
If you were that disrespectful 

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to another Chef you that would 
be it. 

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You'd be thrown out of the 
kitchen and you wouldn't come 

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back and it blew Mind. 
And it reminded me like, oh the 

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a lot of the, a lot of the 
people in culinary school that 

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I've never worked before you're 
in for a very rude awakening. 

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When you work in an intense 
kitchen and you have a, you have

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a little bit of a Lippy attitude
towards the chef. 

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Remember, here's a big 
difference between culinary 

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school and work is when you're 
in culinary school, you're 

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paying them, you're paying them.
But when you flip it around, 

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they're paying you. 
So, the expectation is much 

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different and everyone in the 
kitchen understands that already

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like theirs, There's, there's a 
difference. 

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It's like when you're in high 
school, like a lot of people go 

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to culinary school right out of 
high school. 

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And so you're used to kind of 
that, that mentality and banter.

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You know, you're the senior in 
high school and then all of a 

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sudden you get into a 
professional kitchen and these 

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guys are four five, six years 
in. 

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So, it's like going from being a
senior in high school to to 

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big-time college. 
And you're a freshman all over 

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again and it's a culture shock. 
So, I think it's, I think it's 

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important that you understand. 
That you're prepared for it. 

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And I'm not saying this to scare
anyone, but understand, the best

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thing to do when you're in 
culinary school is be humble. 

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Go into a kitchen that is going 
to make you better work with 

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chefs that are better than you, 
learn and work in kitchens that 

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you're not the best. 
Because if you're right out of 

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culinary school and you're the 
best person in the kitchen, 

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you're probably in the wrong 
kitchen because you should be 

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working around people that are 
much, much better than you, 

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that'll haste in your career 
because you'll have You know, 

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you'll have a greater eyelash 
learning curve as its explained,

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you know, the ability to go 
further. 

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Anyway, I'm rambling and I'm 
ranting. 

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I want to talk about lasting 
just to kind of close it all up.

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Is, what should you do upon 
graduation? 

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Like I said, ideal, if you could
get work experience, that's 

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great. 
But one of the great benefits of

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going to culinary school is your
Chef instructors. 

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Use them talk to them. 
And ask them. 

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Where should I work? 
Who do Oh, and the industry that

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I could go work with and learn 
from and see what doors that 

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they opened for you. 
So this is a very important 

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piece of advice. 
I could give you is utilize the 

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people around you because they 
know way more than you, they 

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probably have more experience in
the industry than you. 

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And and if you're not going to 
use them, figure out what are 

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the best restaurants in the 
world. 

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And if you have the opportunity 
to go work abroad and work in 

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00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:25,600
different countries and get into
some of these world-class 

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restaurants, you know, the 
restaurants that have Michelin 

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00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,100
stars or on the world's 50, best
do it. 

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Because a lot of those, a lot of
those places would prefer to get

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you when you're younger and you 
have less experience. 

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So you haven't really picked up 
any bad habits, then they would,

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you know, if you had 10 years 
experience working in the wrong 

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00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,500
type of kitchen, and what I 
mean, by the wrong type of 

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00:14:45,500 --> 00:14:49,900
kitchen is something that's not 
exactly at that high level. 

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So, Working great restaurants, 
work around great chefs like and

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we'll talk about this on another
episode but you could always 

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work your way down the ladder, 
but if you start out working in 

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kitchens for years, that are not
at the highest level, it's very 

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00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,500
hard to work your way up. 
So if you start at the top, you 

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00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:10,900
can always go down but it's 
difficult. 

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00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,600
If you start at the bottom, to 
work your way up and I mean that

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in terms of level of Cuisine 
that you're working on. 

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So if you have a passion for 
working in high-end Cuisine, do 

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00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,600
that right away. 
Don't be afraid that you're not 

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00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:24,800
going to be the best person in 
the kitchen because the reality 

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00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,600
is you're not and you're not 
going to be the best person in 

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00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,000
any kitchen that you go to. 
So why not go to the best 

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00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:31,900
kitchen where you can learn 
from? 

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Great people. 
Well anyway, chefs that wraps up

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00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:40,600
this rant on culinary school for
those of you that were on the, 

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00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:46,200
on the, on my Instagram and you 
messaged me what episodes you'd 

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00:15:46,200 --> 00:15:50,000
like to see, I appreciate that. 
It gave me a lot of ideas for 

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00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:53,200
future Rants and It's like that.
But if you want to support the 

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00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,000
show, follow chefs, PSA. 
I've started a tick tock, we're 

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00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:01,100
on Instagram and Twitter, you 
could support the podcast. 

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00:16:01,100 --> 00:16:04,800
There's a, there's a link where 
you can sponsor the podcast, you

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00:16:04,808 --> 00:16:08,500
could buy the chef's, PSA book, 
share this information with 

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00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,900
everybody. 
But anyway, we'll see you next 

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00:16:10,900 --> 00:16:13,800
time. 
And let's cue up the porno 

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00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,200
music. 
See y'all