1
00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,520
Hello chefs. 
This is Chefs PSA. 

2
00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,600
I'm your host Andre Natera. 
Today I'm joined by Chef Patrick

3
00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,680
Mitchell, corporate culinary 
ambassador for Benny Keith Foods

4
00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:12,320
headquartered in Fort Worth, TX 
Chef Patrick was named the 2016 

5
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:15,680
ACF National Chef of the Year, 
and he's also the author of The 

6
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:17,800
Plating Window with a second 
book on the way. 

7
00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:20,200
We're talking chef 
certification, culinary 

8
00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,960
competitions, what it takes to 
keep pushing yourself as a 

9
00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:24,600
professional chef. 
Stay tuned. 

10
00:00:39,160 --> 00:00:41,600
Great restaurants don't always 
bring customers in. 

11
00:00:41,840 --> 00:00:45,040
Great stories do, because in 
food, beverage and hospitality, 

12
00:00:45,040 --> 00:00:46,920
what you sell is only part of 
the story. 

13
00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,320
It's the why behind it, the 
authority you create and the 

14
00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:58,000
experience that you built. 
Market Scale turns expertise 

15
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:01,840
into content that connects 
podcasts, video series and 

16
00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:04,680
industry education, not ads 
assets. 

17
00:01:07,440 --> 00:01:10,440
Market Scale has brought run the
pass and how to manage like an 

18
00:01:10,440 --> 00:01:13,440
executive chef to life real 
world examples of how great 

19
00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:18,240
content leads the conversation. 
Because attention is earned and 

20
00:01:18,240 --> 00:01:19,880
the industry doesn't need more 
noise. 

21
00:01:20,040 --> 00:01:27,800
It needs more leaders. 
For people that don't know, we 

22
00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,240
work together. 
I don't know, I've probably 

23
00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,680
close to 10 years. 
Obviously I've known you for for

24
00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:37,680
27 years, right. 
And you know, I talk about this 

25
00:01:37,680 --> 00:01:43,280
often on the on the podcast is 
my early, you know, my culinary 

26
00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:46,760
childhood and my upbringing 
being around competitions and, 

27
00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,400
and, and the ACF and, and 
growing up in that environment 

28
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,560
around a lot of chefs and the 
network and the food grazers and

29
00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:56,080
the competitions, everything 
that goes with it. 

30
00:01:57,440 --> 00:01:59,680
But the missing part to a lot of
those stories is a lot of that 

31
00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:03,000
was with you. 
So I think for the audience 

32
00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:05,200
listening, I would probably say 
the the first question I would 

33
00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:09,240
ask you is throughout your 
career as a chef, approximately 

34
00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:12,080
how many competitions have you 
competed in? 

35
00:02:12,600 --> 00:02:17,120
Oh wow. 
Well, you know, the book talks 

36
00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:22,000
about the 40 year journey from 
my first competition and how I 

37
00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,360
got started in it until I I 
really quit competing. 

38
00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:31,200
But in those forty years I would
say, you know, 70 I think would 

39
00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,080
be a good guess. 
I didn't do 2A year every year 

40
00:02:35,080 --> 00:02:38,520
religiously, but there were a 
lot of years that I didn't do 

41
00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:43,560
any and a lot of years I did two
or three, maybe 4, so I think 

42
00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,520
that's a good number. 70 Yeah. 
How many of them did you win? 

43
00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:52,560
Oh geez, Andre in my mind. 
I should have won all of them, 

44
00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,520
but. 
Yeah, yeah, it's, it's a tough, 

45
00:02:56,320 --> 00:02:58,640
you know, I think I won a little
bit in every one of them because

46
00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:00,680
you learn something in each 
competition. 

47
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,360
And I tell people when they when
their first competitions, the 

48
00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:06,360
most important part of the 
competition is the critique 

49
00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:07,840
because that's where you really 
learn. 

50
00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,000
And, you know, you can put all 
kinds of great food out there 

51
00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:13,200
and all that stuff. 
But but when you get critiqued, 

52
00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:14,880
that's you learn the secrets. 
Yeah. 

53
00:03:15,280 --> 00:03:18,880
You know, you, you carry so much
knowledge in, in competition and

54
00:03:18,880 --> 00:03:23,440
professionalism and I will 
commend you on the show here. 

55
00:03:23,440 --> 00:03:25,920
About what a professional. 
No, correct me if I'm wrong, you

56
00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:28,600
won the ACF Chef Professionalism
Award. 

57
00:03:28,640 --> 00:03:31,840
For the central region, yeah, it
was a big honor. 

58
00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:35,840
I won that I think in 2005 and 
it's the LJ minor 

59
00:03:35,840 --> 00:03:39,680
professionalism award and and 
they awarded to one chef out of 

60
00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:44,680
each of the four regions. 
And then they have the national 

61
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,600
champion that they select one of
those four for national. 

62
00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,640
But it's based on things that 
you've done, bringing up 

63
00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:56,760
apprentices, doing things to 
really promote the industry and 

64
00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,320
the profession, you know, and, 
and. 

65
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:01,760
Well, the reason I bring this up
because I have a great story, 

66
00:04:01,760 --> 00:04:05,160
which maybe you haven't thought 
of in 20 years, but it's about 

67
00:04:05,160 --> 00:04:06,720
the professionalism that you 
have. 

68
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:13,000
So we were doing the you had won
the Dallas Morning News Rising 

69
00:04:13,000 --> 00:04:14,680
Starship competition. 
Do you remember this? 

70
00:04:15,040 --> 00:04:16,680
Yeah, you remember. 
I don't remember what year you 

71
00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:17,040
would have. 
Won. 

72
00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:19,880
I don't either. 
But it probably was like 2002 or

73
00:04:19,880 --> 00:04:22,840
so, right? 
And I want to say the year or so

74
00:04:22,840 --> 00:04:25,600
after I was competing in the 
competition for the Dallas 

75
00:04:25,600 --> 00:04:27,880
Morning News Rising Star Chef, 
right? 

76
00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:30,400
And it was my first year 
competing. 

77
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:34,160
And you had really encouraged me
to compete in this, in this 

78
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:36,560
competition. 
And it wasn't my first cooking 

79
00:04:36,560 --> 00:04:39,600
competition, but for me it was, 
it was still early. 

80
00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:41,720
It was like the second or third.
It was, I hadn't done many. 

81
00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:45,000
I had done a couple in Denver, 
but nothing, nothing really. 

82
00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:47,600
And we had, we had done a lot of
coaching, but you were very 

83
00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:49,960
strict about coaching me because
you're also judging. 

84
00:04:51,440 --> 00:04:53,120
Do you remember? 
Was I judging that? 

85
00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,440
You were judging. 
You were for sure judging. 

86
00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,440
And this is exactly where this 
story is going. 

87
00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,400
OK, so you were judging the 
competition. 

88
00:04:59,400 --> 00:05:01,800
This speaks to your 
professionalism in a good way. 

89
00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,160
And you know why I despise your 
professionalism so much still to

90
00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:08,840
this day. 
So I'm in the cooking 

91
00:05:08,840 --> 00:05:11,560
competition. 
And for people that don't know, 

92
00:05:11,880 --> 00:05:14,120
back then this was kind of a big
deal, this rising star chef 

93
00:05:14,120 --> 00:05:16,760
competition in Dallas. 
And there's questions you had to

94
00:05:16,760 --> 00:05:18,200
qualify to get into it. 
Yeah, right. 

95
00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:21,120
And it was at the Fairmont. 
Yeah, it was at Inside the 

96
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:24,320
Brasserie, Inside the Brasserie 
at the Fairmont in Dallas. 

97
00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,320
This was when the Fairmont 
Dallas was the Fairmont Dallas. 

98
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,800
And Roger Hyde was the chef, I 
think at the time. 

99
00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,160
And I remember they had camera 
crews in there and they're 

100
00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:35,000
filming everything for the 
competition. 

101
00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:36,520
And I don't remember what I was 
making. 

102
00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,520
I was making like some knock off
of a Charlie Trotter dish and I 

103
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,920
was making mashed potatoes and I
was mashing them and I was 

104
00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,360
pouring the cream. 
And I got nervous because the 

105
00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:50,720
cameraman was standing on the 
stainless steel above top shot 

106
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:53,640
down watching me mix. 
And I was pouring in the cream. 

107
00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:55,400
And I got so nervous that I 
poured too much cream. 

108
00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,600
And it was just like soup, 
right? 

109
00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:00,880
And so I ended up losing the 
competition. 

110
00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:04,360
And I remember the first thing 
you came out because you didn't 

111
00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,560
know which one was my dish. 
You did not know which one was 

112
00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,400
my dish until after you came up 
to me and said, was that your 

113
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,280
dish? 
And I said, yeah, that was my 

114
00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:13,200
dish. 
And he said, I'll never forget. 

115
00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:15,320
He said, what the hell happened 
with the potatoes? 

116
00:06:19,320 --> 00:06:20,840
And I was like, well, you knew 
it was my dish. 

117
00:06:20,840 --> 00:06:23,880
Why did I not win regardless of 
the potatoes? 

118
00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,200
But I ended up winning later on 
when you weren't the judge. 

119
00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:30,920
So. 
But for people that often talk 

120
00:06:30,920 --> 00:06:33,240
about, sometimes there's a 
conflict of interest in 

121
00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:35,120
competitions because you're 
judging your friends, you're 

122
00:06:35,120 --> 00:06:37,640
judging your peers, people that 
you you travel with, you compete

123
00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,600
with people that you've known 
through through the federation. 

124
00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,080
And sometimes you got to be hard
on them and tell them, hey, 

125
00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,800
potatoes suck. 
Well, you know, that's the same 

126
00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:48,840
people people talk about. 
You know, I try not to get 

127
00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:52,360
myself in those situations, but 
if I have a competitor that 

128
00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,560
worked for me or that I know or 
something like that, and I have 

129
00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:56,920
to judge them, I have to judge 
them. 

130
00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,400
So you have to be fair. 
You have to be honest with them.

131
00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:05,440
Nobody appreciates winning 
something that's been given to 

132
00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,920
them, so you know it would do 
them a disservice. 

133
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:12,000
Yeah. 
What is What is your current 

134
00:07:12,000 --> 00:07:16,120
role with competitions and when 
was the last time you competed 

135
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:18,720
in a competition? 
Well, the last time I competed 

136
00:07:18,720 --> 00:07:22,840
was at the Global Chef's 
Challenge in Kuala Lumpur, and 

137
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:29,040
that was in 2018. 
Currently, after that, I I've 

138
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:35,240
stepped down from competition 
and I am judging, I'm mentoring,

139
00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,320
coaching, doing those kind of 
things, helping support those 

140
00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,920
coming up. 
So I want to get into the 

141
00:07:41,920 --> 00:07:44,600
mindset of a competitor. 
And by the way, great book for 

142
00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:46,200
people. 
So for people that are 

143
00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:48,200
listening, can you tell people 
the the title of the book? 

144
00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:51,640
Yeah. 
It's the plating window and it's

145
00:07:52,000 --> 00:07:55,760
culinary competitions, stories 
of culinary competitions, a 

146
00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,280
chef's journey and it's the 40 
year journey of how I got 

147
00:07:59,280 --> 00:08:02,840
started and introduced the 
competitions until that Kuala 

148
00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,840
Lumpur competition and then 
actually a little bit beyond 

149
00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,280
that into mentoring and then 
kind of giving back. 

150
00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:11,800
Yeah, the beautiful cover too. 
Is that me on the cover with 

151
00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:12,640
you? 
Not, is it? 

152
00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,120
That's interesting choice. 
Well, this interview's over. 

153
00:08:21,800 --> 00:08:22,520
I. 
Knew I was going. 

154
00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,560
To be that short. 
One, no, I'm kidding. 

155
00:08:25,560 --> 00:08:29,240
It's a great book. 
But the reason I want to get 

156
00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:31,720
into the competition's a little 
bit is because I think 

157
00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,799
immediately people think 
competitions are not for me and 

158
00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:37,520
why would I compete there? 
You know, sometimes from the 

159
00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,840
outside looking in, you might 
not immediately see the value of

160
00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:44,600
a competition. 
I recall a time that you had 

161
00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:48,240
come and helped one of my sous 
chefs prepare for a competition.

162
00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:50,320
You came in and you did some 
coaching for them and there were

163
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,480
so many little things that we 
don't think about when we're in 

164
00:08:53,480 --> 00:08:56,480
the culinary operation, when 
we're in the restaurants of how 

165
00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,880
much crossover there actually is
between culinary competitions 

166
00:08:59,880 --> 00:09:02,960
and the daily culinary 
operation, how they improve each

167
00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,360
other. 
Well, I guess the first question

168
00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,640
is why is it important for a 
chef to compete? 

169
00:09:11,640 --> 00:09:15,680
What are some of the advantages 
that you received from being a 

170
00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:17,920
culinary competitor and what are
some of the advantages that you 

171
00:09:17,920 --> 00:09:21,400
think that someone just, you 
know, a chef in a hotel or a 

172
00:09:21,400 --> 00:09:23,080
restaurant would get from 
competing? 

173
00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:28,040
Well, you know, a lot of people 
say competition is not, it's not

174
00:09:28,040 --> 00:09:33,440
real life, it's not what you do 
in a kitchen day-to-day. 

175
00:09:33,440 --> 00:09:37,880
And, and I argue that point with
the fact that what you gain out 

176
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:40,840
of competition, it forces you to
work at a very high level of 

177
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,240
competency for extended period 
of time. 

178
00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,560
And when you up your game and 
work at that level for extended 

179
00:09:46,560 --> 00:09:49,880
period of time, when you go back
to work, you don't say, OK, now 

180
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,080
I'm going to go back to the 
lower level that I used to work 

181
00:09:52,080 --> 00:09:53,040
at. 
That's, that's your new 

182
00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,280
standard. 
And then people in the kitchen 

183
00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:59,360
see that new standard and they, 
they kind of emulate that 

184
00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:02,760
standard as well. 
So, you know, that's, that's 

185
00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:04,440
what I've gained out of 
competition. 

186
00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:08,560
There's, there's creativity, 
there's seeing new, new ideas, 

187
00:10:08,560 --> 00:10:10,760
different things that other 
competitors are doing. 

188
00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,360
And it's, and it's also, it 
forces you to be very organized,

189
00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:19,000
setting up your workstation, 
organized, working, clean, 

190
00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,560
working, meticulous. 
These are all things that that 

191
00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:23,720
just translate to success in the
industry. 

192
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,560
And in general, what are the, 
obviously there's all sorts of 

193
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:29,720
competitions, but what are the 
main types of competitions that 

194
00:10:29,720 --> 00:10:32,960
most people will compete in that
you could probably find, you 

195
00:10:32,960 --> 00:10:34,840
know, throughout the United 
States and all over the world? 

196
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:40,160
So the American, the American 
Culinary Federation and Wax, the

197
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:44,120
World Association of Chef 
Society kind of aligned pretty 

198
00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:46,840
well. 
And most of the the competitions

199
00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:49,840
these days are hot food 
competitions. 

200
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,360
Could be a wild card competition
where there's a specific 

201
00:10:54,360 --> 00:10:57,200
protein. 
There could be a mystery basket 

202
00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,200
competition where you're given 
ingredients and you have to 

203
00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:03,760
create whatever the criteria is.
There's also cold food 

204
00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,760
competitions and that's whether 
it be hot food or cold food 

205
00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:10,480
presented cold. 
So it's usually glazed with 

206
00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:14,600
aspect and put on a mirror and 
and displayed that way. 

207
00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:18,760
Not not cooked in front of the 
judges, but cooked off site and 

208
00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:21,560
brought in pastry. 
Competitions are the same. 

209
00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:24,560
I want to talk a little bit more
about hot food presented cold 

210
00:11:24,560 --> 00:11:31,320
because I think a lot of people 
don't understand that and they 

211
00:11:31,560 --> 00:11:34,640
possibly don't understand what 
the benefit is of doing a hot 

212
00:11:34,640 --> 00:11:37,000
food presented cold. 
But I know, I I know you've 

213
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:38,360
coached me through a couple of 
those way back. 

214
00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:44,080
And I learned so much just from 
and I didn't win, but I learned 

215
00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:46,600
so much just from competing in 
those competitions of the hot 

216
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:48,200
food presented cold. 
Yeah. 

217
00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:53,280
Can you talk about what are some
of the important things that 

218
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,120
separate a good competitor from 
maybe someone that's not going 

219
00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,560
to win in a hot food presented 
cold competition? 

220
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:02,640
Well, you know, it's attention 
to detail. 

221
00:12:02,640 --> 00:12:06,040
It's attention to, you know, 
you're, you're cooking the food 

222
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:08,440
just like you would cook it on 
the line, but then you're 

223
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:11,840
cooling it and you're glazing at
an aspect. 

224
00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:14,000
And the aspect is is really a 
gelatin mixture. 

225
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,000
And the reason you're glazing it
is to seal it, keep it from 

226
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,480
drying out, give it a nice Sheen
and A and a good appearance to 

227
00:12:20,480 --> 00:12:23,360
it on the plate. 
If you don't take care of the, 

228
00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,960
the first things properly, the 
proper cooking and, and things 

229
00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:29,760
like that, some people will say,
let's say a grilled scallop. 

230
00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:31,800
I'm going to put this grilled 
scallop on this plate. 

231
00:12:32,080 --> 00:12:35,120
Well, they'll take the scallop 
and you know, you probably 

232
00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:36,200
aren't going to cook it on a 
grill. 

233
00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,200
You're probably going to take a,
a skewer and heat it up and, and

234
00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:41,600
make those lines on there 
perfectly spaced. 

235
00:12:41,600 --> 00:12:45,120
So it's beautiful, but you got 
to do the other side too, even 

236
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:47,400
though it's, you know, a lot of 
people think I just have to do 

237
00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,520
the top. 
Well, judges look at that and 

238
00:12:49,560 --> 00:12:52,520
and then say, OK, if you did it 
that way, that's fine. 

239
00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:55,240
But that tells me you don't know
how to cook a scallop because 

240
00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:56,960
you're not going to put it on 
there and just do one side. 

241
00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,440
You're going to do both sides. 
So, you know, little things like

242
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:02,440
that, attention to detail, the 
sauce, the way the sauce is done

243
00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:06,560
with gelatin in that nice Sheen 
to it. 

244
00:13:07,520 --> 00:13:09,640
You know, I can think back to 
the competition that I did and, 

245
00:13:09,680 --> 00:13:12,720
and you were coaching me through
it and I had to do a consume and

246
00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:18,800
I remember having the process of
so we had the Consomera ready 

247
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:20,520
with gelatin in it. 
We pour a little bit and then we

248
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,480
put a little garnish vegetables.
Then we pour a little bit more 

249
00:13:22,480 --> 00:13:24,720
and set it, put a little bit 
more garnish vegetables, then 

250
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,560
pour a little bit more into it 
would have the appearance of it 

251
00:13:26,560 --> 00:13:29,960
being floating throughout. 
And so, so those are some of the

252
00:13:29,960 --> 00:13:32,880
little things that I think 
people like, Oh, it's just cold 

253
00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:33,960
food. 
No, there's a lot to it. 

254
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:36,440
Yeah. 
And, and yeah, you want it to to

255
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:40,320
look like, you know, so, so back
to a hot plate presented cold. 

256
00:13:40,320 --> 00:13:42,520
You know, you're going to have 
some vegetables on there. 

257
00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:44,560
You're going to glaze those 
vegetables, you're going to cook

258
00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:46,560
them. 
I put a Sheen of aspect on it. 

259
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,400
We'll then also sprinkle a 
little seasoning on that and 

260
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:52,760
then dip it again in aspect so 
that that seasoning is so now it

261
00:13:52,760 --> 00:13:55,240
looks like a a nice seasoned 
vegetable. 

262
00:13:55,720 --> 00:13:57,880
The sauce I talked about, you're
going to put everything on the 

263
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:00,720
plate and then you're going to 
pour the sauce in so it flows in

264
00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:03,160
under. 
So it looks like that product is

265
00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:05,440
sitting in the sauce. 
Rather than putting the sauce on

266
00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,120
the plate, it hardens and then 
you set the the steak on top of 

267
00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:10,800
the sauce. 
Well, you can see that it's 

268
00:14:11,240 --> 00:14:13,680
sitting on top. 
So it's little things like that 

269
00:14:13,680 --> 00:14:15,640
that make a difference. 
When, when you're judging those 

270
00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,880
competitions, how, how big of a 
difference typically is it 

271
00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:22,200
between gold and silver? 
Like, what are some of the what 

272
00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:24,440
are some of the things that a 
gold medalist would do that the 

273
00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:26,440
silver medalist isn't catching 
just yet? 

274
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:29,880
Wow, that's really hard. 
There's there's so many things 

275
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,560
that they go into it, but it's 
the finesse of the work, the 

276
00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,800
craftsmanship, the the again, 
attention to detail. 

277
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:46,880
You know how if they're showing 
technique instead of just, you 

278
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,240
know, doing a, a piece of meat 
on the plate or you know, a 

279
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,880
piece of fish on the plate, 
maybe they're, they're making a 

280
00:14:52,880 --> 00:14:56,360
nice seafood sausage to go with 
that piece of fish and then a 

281
00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,000
grilled scallop to go there too.
So they're, they're showing 

282
00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:04,160
multiple cooking techniques and,
and just, you know, just really 

283
00:15:04,320 --> 00:15:07,320
precise cuts, precise things in 
that sausage. 

284
00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,760
Even there may be some 
vegetables that are in there. 

285
00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,480
What's the cut on those 
vegetables? 

286
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:19,520
When you think back to your 
career of over 70 plus 

287
00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,040
competitions, is there one that 
sticks out more than others like

288
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:28,720
a highlight? 
You know, I think, I think when 

289
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,880
when we won National Chef of the
Year, that was a really fun 

290
00:15:32,880 --> 00:15:34,160
competition. 
What year was that? 

291
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,320
That was in 2016. 
What? 

292
00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:39,720
What does the competition look 
like to win National Chef of the

293
00:15:39,720 --> 00:15:41,240
Year? 
Well, it changes. 

294
00:15:41,360 --> 00:15:44,680
I'm on the national competition 
committee now. 

295
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:49,440
But when I did it, it was we 
were assigned 2 proteins. 

296
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:53,280
I could bring in two apprentices
to help out. 

297
00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:56,760
Those apprentices could work on 
anything but the protein. 

298
00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,640
I had to fabricate the proteins.
I had to do all the work on the 

299
00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:04,520
proteins I could get it ready to
go into the oven and hand it to 

300
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,480
The Apprentice that was working 
there and then say. 

301
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:08,720
You know what's the requirement 
for The Apprentice That's with 

302
00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:10,720
you. 
Well, they can do anything but 

303
00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:12,040
the proteins. 
They could do any, yeah. 

304
00:16:12,160 --> 00:16:13,600
So do they have like a certain 
age limit that they? 

305
00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:14,960
Have to. 
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

306
00:16:14,960 --> 00:16:16,280
There were. 
I can't remember what it is. 

307
00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:19,520
I think it was under 22 or 
something like that. 

308
00:16:19,520 --> 00:16:20,520
That that's what you're doing? 
Called me. 

309
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:27,040
Yes, yes. 
Among other reasons, no, but, 

310
00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:33,160
and you know, we had, we were 
given rainbow trout and rabbit 

311
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:38,600
and we had to do 4 different 
dishes, 2 with rainbow trout, 2 

312
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000
with the rabbit, had to do 4 
portions of each of the four 

313
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,760
dishes, fabricate the product, 
bone it out, do all that stuff. 

314
00:16:47,160 --> 00:16:51,400
And we had one hour and we were 
cooking our asses off. 

315
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,800
We, it, it was fun. 
It was just just an energy that 

316
00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,640
I, I, you know, can't express. 
What are, what are some of the 

317
00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:00,680
things that you can do 'cause 
I'm thinking, OK, now it's not a

318
00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:02,720
lot of time, especially to come 
up with that many dishes. 

319
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,400
And so I'm sure there's a lot of
practice that goes into it. 

320
00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,720
But I'm sure you have techniques
that you have, you know, ready 

321
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:14,079
to go that will give you maximum
flavor, minimal amount of time. 

322
00:17:14,680 --> 00:17:16,520
So what are some of those 
techniques that you use that 

323
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:20,160
maybe maybe that other 
competitors could learn from, 

324
00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:21,960
but also maybe people that are 
in the restaurant could say 

325
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,839
that's actually a great 
technique that I can incorporate

326
00:17:23,839 --> 00:17:27,440
into the operation? 
So, you know, one of the first 

327
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,680
things we, you know, we, we took
a look at it and you're, you're 

328
00:17:29,680 --> 00:17:32,800
talking, you know, when you, 
when you start doing 4 different

329
00:17:32,800 --> 00:17:35,400
entrees, I mean, that's, that's 
a lot of food. 

330
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:41,560
Plus, are you going to get 8 
portions of eight entree 

331
00:17:41,560 --> 00:17:43,560
portions out of out of a trout? 
No, you're probably going to 

332
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:45,400
have to bring in 2 trout, 
probably going to have to bring 

333
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:48,200
in 2 rabbit. 
So we looked at the rules, we 

334
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:52,240
got clarification and 
everybody's assuming entree, but

335
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,680
we said let's, we're going to do
appetizer portions. 

336
00:17:55,880 --> 00:17:57,800
So now I only had to fabricate 1
trout. 

337
00:17:57,800 --> 00:17:59,800
I only had to fabricate 11 
rabbit. 

338
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,160
And then, you know, you kind of 
look at some different things. 

339
00:18:04,120 --> 00:18:07,200
You want to show technique, you 
want to show classic skills. 

340
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,280
So one of the trout dishes, you 
know, I, I did a, a classic 

341
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:14,680
poach where I, I cut the 
medallions of trout. 

342
00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:19,640
I put it in a buttered pan, put 
some, some shallots and, and 

343
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:24,160
celery and dill in, in the pan, 
a little bit of white wine and 

344
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:26,800
then covered it with a buttered 
cartouche and put it in the oven

345
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:29,920
and, and just a classic poach. 
I pulled that out. 

346
00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:33,120
It was, it was well seasoned. 
Oh, and I piped a, a seafood 

347
00:18:33,120 --> 00:18:36,800
mousse on top of it. 
And then I, I took that, that, 

348
00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,800
that white wine that it poached 
in and I created a sauce out of 

349
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:41,600
that. 
So I, you know, I'm showing that

350
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:45,240
technique of, of using the, the 
pan drippings, if you will, to, 

351
00:18:45,320 --> 00:18:49,080
to create your sauce and, and 
just a small little thing 

352
00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:53,000
beautiful with some fava beans 
and turned that into a, a bur 

353
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:55,480
Blanc sauce. 
Different things. 

354
00:18:55,480 --> 00:18:58,440
You know, I, you know, I've done
a lot of reloads in my life and 

355
00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:04,040
the rabbit, one of them I, I did
a reload of took the two 

356
00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,760
tenderloins out or the two loins
out of the rabbit and took the 

357
00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:13,360
rest of the rabbit and made a 
farce, wrapped that and did kind

358
00:19:13,360 --> 00:19:15,960
of a Ying and a Yang with some 
mushroom and red bell pepper 

359
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,280
between them. 
It's all talked about in the 

360
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,280
book. 
But it it, it, you know, showed 

361
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,640
really some technique and some 
skill, and that's what they're 

362
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,960
looking for. 
Leading up to the competition, 

363
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:29,760
what is the preparation for you 
and The Apprentice like? 

364
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:33,600
How far out are you preparing? 
How far out do you know exactly 

365
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,080
what you're going to make and or
is there some you have an idea 

366
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:38,600
of what you're going to make and
then when you get there you 

367
00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:43,200
might have to call an audible? 
They in, in those competitions, 

368
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:45,280
in the, in the regional 
competition and the national 

369
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,360
competition, they gave us the 
ingredients and told us. 

370
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:50,800
And in the global competition 
too, they, they told us what the

371
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:55,200
ingredients were going to be. 
And they gave us probably 4 

372
00:19:55,200 --> 00:19:59,240
weeks, 5 weeks maybe in advance 
so that you can kind of write a 

373
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:02,280
menu, you can practice it, you 
can look at timing, you can do 

374
00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:06,000
all that kind of like I said, 
one hour is very quick and. 

375
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:09,680
So we had things down 
orchestrated. 

376
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,320
It was almost like a dance. 
Everybody had their steps and 

377
00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:14,640
this and that. 
And, and then there's going to 

378
00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,960
be things that'll happen, you 
know, and, and when those things

379
00:20:17,960 --> 00:20:21,920
happen, you got a you got a 
punt, you know, and hopefully 

380
00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:24,320
those things will happen before 
we get to the competition. 

381
00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,280
So we can kind of practice 
through that and understand this

382
00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:29,080
is a possibility and, and 
prevent it. 

383
00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,360
But you know things will happen 
in the competition as well. 

384
00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:33,000
How far out are you starting 
practice? 

385
00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,440
Well, as soon as you get the 
ingredients, yeah, as soon as 

386
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:40,040
you find out what those 
ingredients are now for, for 

387
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:45,680
national, you know, I started 
probably two, 2 1/2 months 

388
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:48,240
because I had to identify my 
apprentices. 

389
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:51,960
Who's going to going to do that?
You know, I say apprentice, but 

390
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,680
it's really more of a comedy, 
you know, a young, young 

391
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,800
culinary and that's that's 
working with you in the kitchen.

392
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:02,240
So then we kind of had some 
conversation about what, what if

393
00:21:02,240 --> 00:21:04,040
we get this? 
What if we get that? 

394
00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:05,480
You know what, what are we going
to do? 

395
00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,720
And then before you know it, 
ingredients are announced and 

396
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:15,800
and it's on. 
And do you, I mean leading up to

397
00:21:15,800 --> 00:21:18,720
this, are you practicing for 
time is and do you have a coach 

398
00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,640
coaching you and your comedy or 
is it or do you take with all 

399
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:24,680
the years of competition, do you
take on the coaching role and 

400
00:21:24,680 --> 00:21:27,760
the competitor role? 
Now, no, I, I take, I bring on a

401
00:21:27,760 --> 00:21:32,000
coach. 
You do, you know somebody, you 

402
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,400
can't ask everybody. 
So you kind of pick one person 

403
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:42,080
that you really value their 
judgement and and, you know, 

404
00:21:42,080 --> 00:21:44,320
bounce things off of them 
because I I may look at 

405
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,560
something and think that's 
great. 

406
00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,640
And the coach says, yeah, that 
sucks. 

407
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:54,920
So we retool it and go at it 
again. 

408
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:58,280
But you know, and it's, and it's
funny, the whole process. 

409
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,120
And I, I tell people this all 
the time when whether I'm 

410
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:03,440
coaching them in a competition 
or I'm coaching them through 

411
00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,040
their practical exam for 
certification, you're going to 

412
00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:09,440
have an idea what you want to 
cook. 

413
00:22:09,800 --> 00:22:13,360
And you get into the kitchen and
you start going and man, the 

414
00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:15,840
wheels fall off and it's just a 
train wreck. 

415
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:19,240
And it's like, I've been 
embarrassed at times like this. 

416
00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:20,920
This guy's going to think, I 
don't know how to cook. 

417
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:23,720
I mean, it's been that bad. 
But you have to work through 

418
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:28,440
that to get to the other side. 
And, and if you quit and give up

419
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:32,000
on that, that train wreck, 
you'll never get there, you 

420
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,560
know, So I mean, that's, that's 
a, it's a learning experience. 

421
00:22:34,880 --> 00:22:37,440
And it's really all about 
getting things in the right 

422
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,960
order. 
You know, you can, you've got 

423
00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,400
this, this, this and this to do.
If you do them in the wrong 

424
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,160
order, you'll never get done in 
time. 

425
00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:48,000
If you get them in the right 
order and put that puzzle 

426
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:49,880
together then it can be very 
successful. 

427
00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:57,800
As culinary has evolved and 
trends come and go, how, how 

428
00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:00,760
much are competitions affected 
by, you know, culinary trends 

429
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:02,880
through social media or through 
restaurants that are very 

430
00:23:02,880 --> 00:23:04,920
popular of the moment, 
restaurants. 

431
00:23:05,240 --> 00:23:09,160
But also how has some of the, I 
don't want to say the modernist 

432
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:13,360
cooking movement, but you know, 
using hydrocolloids and cooking 

433
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:15,280
with circulators and things like
that. 

434
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:19,800
Is that starting to be 
commonplace in competitions #1 

435
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:23,720
and is it? 
Is it frowned upon, or is it is 

436
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,080
it looked upon as a tool to make
it better? 

437
00:23:29,720 --> 00:23:31,480
Some competitions it's frowned 
upon. 

438
00:23:33,360 --> 00:23:37,320
Other competitions it's 
acceptable to a degree. 

439
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:39,760
It's it's another cooking 
method. 

440
00:23:39,760 --> 00:23:41,680
You know, when you talk about 
circulators and things like 

441
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:46,600
that, think in the student 
competitions, they don't allow 

442
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,200
circulators. 
They want, they want students in

443
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,480
competition to be focused on 
classical techniques, classical 

444
00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:57,520
preparations. 
They'll use those circulators 

445
00:23:57,760 --> 00:23:59,640
down the road in in the 
operations. 

446
00:23:59,920 --> 00:24:03,400
But but we really want to kind 
of use these competitions as a 

447
00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:07,040
learning experience. 
So sometimes, you know, and if 

448
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,600
you, if you get into that 
molecular gastronomy and a lot 

449
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:13,440
of people are doing jellified, 
you know, whether it be a little

450
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:18,320
caviar or things like that, you 
know, I tell people one, one of 

451
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:24,360
those, if you want to do it, do,
do one, but don't, don't try. 

452
00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:26,760
And you know, I judged the 
competition years ago and and it

453
00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:33,640
was a dessert entry competitor 
did a fried egg the as as a 

454
00:24:33,640 --> 00:24:39,320
dessert and it was an egg white 
was jellified coconut, the yolk 

455
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:42,640
was mango. 
Like the old Wiley Duprey thing 

456
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:43,760
from WD 50? 
Yeah. 

457
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:46,200
Yeah. 
And, and I said, you know why? 

458
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:48,720
Well, because it's cool, you 
know, and it's just. 

459
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:49,800
Yeah. 
But you know, you wouldn't 

460
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:53,760
really serve that dessert and it
has nothing to do with, you 

461
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:55,840
know, so. 
So you can get kind of too crazy

462
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:58,560
with it if you. 
Yeah, and and you're not showing

463
00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:01,560
like I'm just putting myself in 
in your shoes that day. 

464
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:03,320
It's like I would have been 
happy with a beautiful tart. 

465
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:06,360
Yeah, yeah, sure. 
Yeah, a perfectly executed tart.

466
00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:08,040
Yeah, and that shows a lot of 
technique, you know? 

467
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:11,600
And sometimes the simplest 
things show the most technique 

468
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:15,200
you know. 
Yeah, it's, it's funny because 

469
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,120
I, I want to say at this year's 
Bo Custior, they also removed a 

470
00:25:19,120 --> 00:25:21,960
lot of hydrocolloids from being 
allowed in the competition. 

471
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,960
And Matt, Matt Peters and I had 
a really long conversation about

472
00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:27,600
this, about how at the end of 
the day, it's about cooking and 

473
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:31,080
it's about making it delicious. 
And you can't use tricks and 

474
00:25:31,080 --> 00:25:32,880
gimmicks. 
And you know, magic tricks only 

475
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,160
take you so far, but you got to.
It's got to taste good. 

476
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:42,680
Yeah, yeah, you know, that's, 
that's really the essence of it.

477
00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:45,560
And I think you had a a kind of 
a conversation with Matthew 

478
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:50,520
Peters on the podcast about, you
know, just just that basic, you 

479
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:54,080
know, well seasoned steak. 
You know, of course in a 

480
00:25:54,080 --> 00:25:55,960
competition you do have to show 
technique. 

481
00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:57,720
So, you know, you got to get 
past that. 

482
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,440
But there's there's things that 
you can do. 

483
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,280
So how much then? 
So that leads to question like 

484
00:26:03,280 --> 00:26:08,040
how how important is the taste? 
So have you ever been in a 

485
00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:09,520
judging position? 
I'm not trying to put you too 

486
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,080
much on the spot, but have you 
ever been in a position as a 

487
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,920
judge where that tastes 
exceptional? 

488
00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:17,720
Not a lot of technique on it. 
That one has a ton of technique.

489
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,320
Yeah, that one has to win or, or
I mean, how do you, how do you 

490
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:29,200
decide? 
Well, you know, just two days 

491
00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,880
ago I was having a conversation 
with the, with the chef talking 

492
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:35,840
about the score sheets for, for 
national coming up. 

493
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:40,960
And the, you know, I think the 
primary thing when you look at 

494
00:26:40,960 --> 00:26:44,640
scoring kitchen and, and taste, 
you know, taste is the number 

495
00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:46,400
one. 
It's got to have the highest, 

496
00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,960
you know, I'd say probably 40% 
for taste. 

497
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:55,320
Then craft skills and technique.
You know, you got to show some 

498
00:26:55,320 --> 00:26:59,640
skill here and then after that, 
how does it look is kind of the 

499
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:01,200
third. 
And then, you know, after that 

500
00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,520
you start looking at 
organization and then sanitation

501
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:07,640
and work habits and then all 
those kind of things. 

502
00:27:07,640 --> 00:27:10,800
But, but back to your question, 
I I think taste is the most 

503
00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:15,120
important thing, but it can 
taste great, can be, you know, 

504
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,360
the best flavor you've had. 
But if the technique isn't 

505
00:27:18,360 --> 00:27:20,560
there, and if they're not 
showing any skill and they're 

506
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:24,520
not, you know, really showing 
much else, it it drops pretty 

507
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:27,040
quickly, you know? 
Yeah, it's interesting because 

508
00:27:27,040 --> 00:27:30,200
you're also being measured on 
how clean do you work and you 

509
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,280
know, your professional skills 
and everything that goes with 

510
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:37,000
it. 
You're being measured as a chef.

511
00:27:37,440 --> 00:27:40,000
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You're not being measured as 

512
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,600
you're being measured as a chef.
And, and that's kind of another 

513
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:48,400
thing that we talked about is 
that, you know, this past year, 

514
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:51,560
when we judged the Chef of the 
year competition, they, they 

515
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:54,000
could bring in one comedy to 
help them in the kitchen. 

516
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:58,320
And that, that it was really 
restricted as to what, what the 

517
00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:02,360
comedy could do. 
And it's, it's really, at the 

518
00:28:02,360 --> 00:28:05,480
end of the day, it's the chef's 
decision. 

519
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,200
If he asks that comedy to do 
this and to do that and that 

520
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:11,640
comedy doesn't execute it well, 
it's going to fall on the shaft.

521
00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:16,440
You know, now if if that chef is
is just leaning on the comedy, 

522
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:19,000
you can tell that the comedy is 
really the culinary in here and 

523
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:22,480
the the chef is just, you know, 
then that's a different story, 

524
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:26,080
certainly. 
But but even if that is the 

525
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:30,160
case, like how many, I mean, not
I'm, I'm just playing devil's 

526
00:28:30,160 --> 00:28:34,000
advocate here, but how many 
great chefs out there in the 

527
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:35,920
world? 
It's their chef de cuisine that 

528
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:38,480
really, well, there's a lot of 
that. 

529
00:28:39,040 --> 00:28:41,600
There's a face, but it's really 
the chef de cuisine in the 

530
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,080
kitchen that's like the really 
the one making all the great 

531
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,000
food. 
And that's very common. 

532
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,280
So going back to competitions, 
mystery baskets, because I know 

533
00:28:50,280 --> 00:28:55,360
this is probably one of the more
common ones, especially for a 

534
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,480
lot of the local shows, you 
know, and I'm just throwing out 

535
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,520
the local shows, but it's like 
I'm putting on a cooking 

536
00:29:00,520 --> 00:29:02,080
competition tomorrow. 
It's going to be a mystery 

537
00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:03,200
basket. 
It's not affiliated with it. 

538
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:06,200
It's just like it's the go to. 
Not only is it the go to for 

539
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,480
competition, it's also the go to
for a lot of job interviews. 

540
00:29:09,040 --> 00:29:12,040
Sure, right. 
A lot of a lot of yeah, yeah, 

541
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:13,520
yeah. 
A lot of culinary job interviews

542
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:15,120
for chefs, the first thing you 
can do is you're going to throw 

543
00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:19,720
them a mystery basket. 
Do you have anything that you do

544
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,520
strategically to prepare? 
Cause how do you prepare for a 

545
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:26,160
mystery basket competition or a 
mystery basket job interview? 

546
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:30,080
Well, you know, you have to kind
of think what what, what is it 

547
00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:31,520
that you might get? 
You know, you're going to get 

548
00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,520
lamb, you're going to get pork 
or you're going to get chicken 

549
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:35,720
or you're going to get seafood. 
You know what, what are you 

550
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:37,600
going to get? 
And then, you know, what's the 

551
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,840
old adage that we try and take 
the mystery out of the mystery 

552
00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:43,880
basket. 
Usually there's a pantry there 

553
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,120
and, and they, they tell you 
what's going to be in the 

554
00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:48,680
pantry. 
There's some vegetables or some 

555
00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:53,040
starches, potatoes, rice, you 
know, pasta, those kind of 

556
00:29:53,040 --> 00:29:55,120
things. 
The mystery basket is usually 

557
00:29:55,120 --> 00:30:00,120
going to be the main protein, 
maybe a secondary protein and 

558
00:30:00,120 --> 00:30:04,840
then an ingredient, whether it 
be a fruit or a specific 

559
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,560
vegetable or something like 
that. 

560
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:08,400
And those you can always deal 
with. 

561
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,080
But it depends on on what the 
competition is it, is it a one 

562
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:12,480
course? 
Is it a three course? 

563
00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:15,400
Does it require dessert? 
Does it, you know, but, but 

564
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,920
going back to those proteins, if
I get chicken, here's what I'm 

565
00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:20,560
going to do. 
If I get duck, here's what I'm 

566
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:22,960
going to do. 
I can fabricate it, do this and 

567
00:30:22,960 --> 00:30:27,680
the other do a roulade, do a 
balantine, you know, do do 

568
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,960
different things like that. 
If I get duck, you know, maybe 

569
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:34,400
I'm going to cone feed the, the 
legs, take a pressure cooker in 

570
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:36,160
with me and, and cone feed the 
legs. 

571
00:30:37,440 --> 00:30:42,360
You know, when I got pheasant 
for regional and that, that was 

572
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:46,560
a difficult one for me. 
Not the pheasant, but just 

573
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:48,000
trying to figure out the whole 
thing. 

574
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:54,440
But you know, I, I did a braise 
on the legs and then I was 

575
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:59,080
trying to, to stuff the, the 
breast and roast it on the bone.

576
00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:02,040
I wanted that nice crisp skin 
and I tested it and it was 

577
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,360
beautiful, but I couldn't get it
done in time. 

578
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,480
I couldn't get the, the, the 
breasts to cook all the way. 

579
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:17,240
And when the end of the time 
came, I was, you know, uncooked 

580
00:31:17,320 --> 00:31:19,760
pheasant. 
So you you can't go into a 

581
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:21,960
competition like that. 
And I just realized I kind of 

582
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,160
way got off of your mystery 
basket question. 

583
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:25,520
No, no, it's OK. 
Bring it back to the mystery 

584
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:27,040
basket. 
But you know, yeah. 

585
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,560
So you, I mean, you just kind of
plan, plan that way. 

586
00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:31,600
You know, you take a look at, 
you know, if I'm going to get a 

587
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,560
loin of lamb, you're not just 
going to take it and bone it out

588
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,840
and. 
Lion, lamb, lion. 

589
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,040
Do you remember? 
I don't remember what menu we 

590
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,040
did and we misprinted it and 
said lamb lion. 

591
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,000
I think I typed it up before I 
knew how to spell. 

592
00:31:47,280 --> 00:31:50,320
We did a, we did a venue and I 
remember you saying that's a Lab

593
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:55,200
Lion or a Lab Lloyd. 
What are we doing here? 

594
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:59,440
Oh. 
Geez, that was before we had the

595
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:02,920
little red squiggly. 
We had to. 

596
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:05,400
Yeah, that was back in the day. 
The spell checker. 

597
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,120
The spell checker was missing. 
Or actually, it was spelled 

598
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:08,840
right. 
It's lying. 

599
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:09,960
Spelled correctly. 
Yeah. 

600
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:13,440
So take the mystery out of the 
mystery basket. 

601
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:20,200
Yeah, I mean, we could, we could
get into that because that's 

602
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:25,360
something that I've used a lot. 
Like I think back to what we 

603
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:29,200
work together, you know, the 
certification tests and all 

604
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:30,520
that. 
Having to go through that and 

605
00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:34,040
doing so many cooking 
interviews, The cooking 

606
00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120
interview that we did way back 
then is something that I've took

607
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,360
with me and I talk about now on 
the podcast. 

608
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:43,200
And I encourage people like just
use this as your, as your 

609
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:44,960
cooking test. 
But before we get into that, 

610
00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:47,480
because I do want to get into 
certification and cooking tests 

611
00:32:47,480 --> 00:32:49,680
and things like that for people 
that are interested in 

612
00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,320
competing, they don't know where
to begin. 

613
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,360
Like, let's just say I'm your 
one culinary school graduate. 

614
00:32:56,360 --> 00:32:58,000
How do I get involved? 
How do I get involved with 

615
00:32:58,000 --> 00:32:59,920
cooking competitions? 
How do I find a mentor? 

616
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:02,120
Where? 
Where do I start? 

617
00:33:03,560 --> 00:33:06,360
Well, you can go on to the 
American Culinary Federation. 

618
00:33:06,480 --> 00:33:09,840
They've got a on the website, 
they've got competitions, they 

619
00:33:09,840 --> 00:33:12,880
have a competition calendar and 
it's posted there where the 

620
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,000
competitions are. 
You can contact anybody in in 

621
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:20,000
those competitions. 
It it says who the chairman is 

622
00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:23,440
and who the lead judge is and 
say, look, I'm interested, can I

623
00:33:23,440 --> 00:33:25,160
come and observe this 
competition? 

624
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,600
Some are kind of close 
competitions maybe for just a 

625
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,560
company or something like that. 
But nine times out of 10 they're

626
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,640
going to allow you to come over 
and then take a look at it. 

627
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,080
You can call go again on the 
American Culinary Federation 

628
00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:41,600
website under competitions, 
there's a list of ACF certified 

629
00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,440
judges. 
I think any if you found, and 

630
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:47,720
it's by state, if you found 
somebody close to you and said, 

631
00:33:48,080 --> 00:33:51,440
I want to find out about it and 
called one of those judges, I 

632
00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,800
can't think of a single judge 
that wouldn't, wouldn't say, 

633
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:55,800
yeah, if somebody called me, I'd
say sure. 

634
00:33:56,480 --> 00:33:59,720
Texas Chefs Association has 
different competitions as well. 

635
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:02,560
So there's, there's a lot of 
things out there. 

636
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:04,720
Just find out where the 
competitions are and you can 

637
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:09,880
just do a Google search and, 
and, and go to 1:00, ask 

638
00:34:09,880 --> 00:34:12,679
questions, see how it is. 
That's the biggest thing in a 

639
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:15,560
person's mind is the unknown. 
They don't know what it looks 

640
00:34:15,560 --> 00:34:16,920
like, they don't know what it's 
you know. 

641
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,520
So if you can go and see and 
experience it, you you get a 

642
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,800
better opportunity. 
It's funny, I was, I was judging

643
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,639
a competition, culinary 
competition, and I was also in a

644
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:29,880
position similar to you when you
were judging me. 

645
00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,199
Yes, I, one of my, one of my 
chefs was competing in the 

646
00:34:33,199 --> 00:34:39,120
competition and we spent so much
time training and preparing him 

647
00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:42,719
for this competition and really 
focusing on technique. 

648
00:34:42,719 --> 00:34:44,560
Like it was a mystery basket 
'cause he had no idea what he's 

649
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:45,560
getting. 
But I was, I was trying to 

650
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,679
explain to him like show a lot 
of technique. 

651
00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,880
You get tomatoes, peel the 
tomatoes, you get asparagus, you

652
00:34:49,880 --> 00:34:53,120
know, collar them or peel them 
or whatever, sear it perfectly, 

653
00:34:53,120 --> 00:34:55,679
make sure the sauce is right. 
Like just you know, make sure 

654
00:34:55,679 --> 00:34:57,160
your knife cuts are correct. 
Everything. 

655
00:34:57,160 --> 00:34:59,560
Like we were so focused on the 
technique. 

656
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,200
He ended up losing the 
competition. 

657
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:05,600
I remember I was very upset 
because what he lost to was like

658
00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:08,400
0 technique. 
It was like, I don't remember 

659
00:35:08,400 --> 00:35:13,360
what it was, but it wasn't good.
And but it was more delicious 

660
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:16,960
according to some of the other 
judges, but it didn't show a lot

661
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:20,040
of technique. 
And I remember I was upset. 

662
00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,600
And by the way, one of those 
other judges, your boy, I won't 

663
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:27,200
say who, I won't say who's one 
of your guys. 

664
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,800
Unlike you, I made sure my guy 
had a Ted of Ted. 

665
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:36,520
He wasn't going to lose the 
competition. 

666
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:38,280
But all joking aside, we 
digressed. 

667
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,640
So he ended up losing the 
competition. 

668
00:35:41,640 --> 00:35:43,720
But his he had so much technique
on there. 

669
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,120
But it tasted, I don't want to 
say it tasted flat, but it 

670
00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:50,800
tasted like asparagus tasted 
like asparagus that was seasoned

671
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,640
tomatoes tasted like tomatoes 
that were seasoned, but it 

672
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,760
didn't. 
It wasn't exceptional where the 

673
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:57,120
other person, you know didn't 
have a lot of technique, but it 

674
00:35:57,120 --> 00:35:58,680
tasted really good. 
You'd put it on your restaurant 

675
00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,080
menu, you'd go back and order it
again. 

676
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,640
And I think back to those 
moments where it's like 

677
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:06,640
sometimes maybe you could you 
could focus too much on the 

678
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:09,320
technique and and lose the plot 
that it still makes it taste 

679
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,240
good. 
Yeah, yeah. 

680
00:36:11,240 --> 00:36:13,800
So, you know, that's, that's 
another great point. 

681
00:36:14,120 --> 00:36:17,880
Everything that goes on that 
plate has got to be the best 

682
00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:19,320
tasting. 
If it's a carrot, it's got to be

683
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:22,280
the best tasting carrot those 
judges have ever tasted, you 

684
00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:24,280
know, so, so do whatever you 
can. 

685
00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:27,640
If you, if you blanch that, that
carrot, you've got a certain 

686
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,080
cut, you blanch it, you, you go 
to sweat it out. 

687
00:36:32,080 --> 00:36:34,200
You know, maybe a little bit of 
sugar in that water that you're 

688
00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,640
blanching it in just to give it 
a little bit of sweetness. 

689
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:42,520
You know, saute it hit a little 
butter, maybe a little stock to,

690
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,400
to go in there and reduce that 
all down. 

691
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,840
So it kind of creates A glaze. 
Season it with a little salt and

692
00:36:47,840 --> 00:36:51,560
pepper, toss that all and now 
when you pull that out, that 

693
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:53,720
whole butter and that that 
chicken stock and it's all 

694
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:56,360
reduced down. 
It's got a nice glaze to it and 

695
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,640
it's just got a really, really 
great flavor. 

696
00:36:58,640 --> 00:37:02,240
So you know, that's the thing. 
So again, all these techniques, 

697
00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,880
I say flavors, it's, you know, 
the the highest points, but you 

698
00:37:07,880 --> 00:37:09,800
know, you can show all these 
techniques and then have 

699
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,520
horrible flavor, you know, So I 
mean, it's all got a it's a 

700
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:14,240
balance. 
How do you how do you manage 

701
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:16,440
your time? 
So you're, you're going into a 

702
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,480
competition and you have one 
hour what we we've talked about 

703
00:37:19,480 --> 00:37:21,200
the, the technique and 
everything else that's going 

704
00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,240
with it and you planned it, but 
how do you manage your time? 

705
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:29,800
Well, you know, you, you try and
on an individual competition, 

706
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:33,120
you try and do like I like to 
get the butchery and, and that, 

707
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,240
that process out of the way 
quickly because I can go in 

708
00:37:36,240 --> 00:37:38,160
there. 
I can have that laid on the 

709
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,240
cutting board. 
When when they say, OK, start 

710
00:37:41,240 --> 00:37:44,280
now I can just grab it and, and 
butcher, get that out of the 

711
00:37:44,280 --> 00:37:48,880
way, wrapped up, put away, 
sanitize the station and then 

712
00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,000
get a new board. 
And now I can start working with

713
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,160
vegetables and things like that 
and I don't have to worry too 

714
00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:57,000
much about cross contamination. 
So, you know, there's just 

715
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,160
different techniques that you 
pick up. 

716
00:38:00,520 --> 00:38:03,680
Do you do you create a timeline?
Because I remember when when we 

717
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,600
were watching Bokus, you know, 
you have the the coach there 

718
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,760
with the iPad clock and OK, you 
need to start mincing shallots. 

719
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:11,480
You need to start doing this. 
Yeah, yeah. 

720
00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:19,320
Is your coach doing that for? 
You no, I in, in the now we're 

721
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,760
switching from mystery basket 
competition to a, a category a 

722
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,440
contemporary cooking kind of a 
thing where you know what, what 

723
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,200
The thing is, the protein that 
you're going to bring in, you 

724
00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:31,320
either know, have have decided 
or you were assigned. 

725
00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:35,160
And in those I definitely have a
timeline and I tell people to, 

726
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:40,800
to do a timeline more in 15 
minute increments rather than 

727
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,840
minute by minute because in a 15
minute increment you can put 

728
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:48,800
down, you know, butcher the 
protein, whatever it is, start 

729
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:52,160
the process of the, the force 
meat or or whatever you know, 

730
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,680
and do do all those things next 
15 minutes, clean, sanitize. 

731
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,320
Now you're working on your 
vegetables because what happens 

732
00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:02,320
is you post that timeline and if
it's minute by minute and you're

733
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,720
not doing this task that was 10 
minutes ago, the judges are 

734
00:39:06,720 --> 00:39:09,520
looking at that saying, OK, this
this person's behind, you know, 

735
00:39:10,360 --> 00:39:13,480
but if it's just these kind of 
blocks of, of things, but yeah, 

736
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:16,160
you have to have something that 
that shows them you, you're 

737
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:19,360
organized, you know what you're 
doing, you've got a plan and 

738
00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:21,600
then work, work. 
Through that, but you're also 

739
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:23,720
working very clean trays are 
organized. 

740
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:29,120
Yeah, yeah, 1 task at a time, 
one knife, whatever knife that 

741
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,720
you need for that particular 
task, that's all that's on the 

742
00:39:31,720 --> 00:39:34,080
table. 
You get done with that task, You

743
00:39:34,240 --> 00:39:36,840
you clean that up, put that 
knife away, maybe change a 

744
00:39:36,840 --> 00:39:39,760
cutting board, bring it out, 
bring the next knife for for 

745
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:40,440
that next. 
One. 

746
00:39:40,480 --> 00:39:44,000
Why is that so important? 
Because clutter, you want to 

747
00:39:44,000 --> 00:39:45,640
remove clutter. 
You know, sometimes you go into 

748
00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:48,840
these competitions and a person 
throws out their knife roll on 

749
00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:50,880
the on the table and pushes it 
off on the side. 

750
00:39:50,880 --> 00:39:53,200
And, you know, they're going to 
use three knives out of that 

751
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:57,240
knife roll, maybe the steel, but
you know, they're not going to, 

752
00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:00,320
you know, use all that other 
extra stuff, you know, so. 

753
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,480
We would have like a speed rack,
everything labeled for time. 

754
00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:07,480
You know, this is your sauce 
maze or whatever, right? 

755
00:40:09,320 --> 00:40:11,040
That's good. 
And and by the way, for people 

756
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:14,680
listening, that same 
organization, I would also apply

757
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:17,080
it to the kitchen. 
So I used to do the same thing 

758
00:40:17,360 --> 00:40:19,560
for for my team. 
It's like I have a time block. 

759
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,640
So you know, your first 15 
minute blocks you need to come 

760
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:24,600
in, you need, you need to make 
sure everyone has salt, fold 

761
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:26,960
your towels, you know, fill, 
fill your pepper mill, blah, 

762
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:28,640
blah, blah. 
Next 15 minutes, get your stocks

763
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:30,000
on, turn on the ovens, whatever.
Right. 

764
00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:31,640
And I'm just kind of throwing it
out there. 

765
00:40:31,640 --> 00:40:36,760
But that way for new cooks that 
were coming in a a lot of times 

766
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,120
new cooks and you know, we have 
the curse of knowledge as chefs,

767
00:40:39,120 --> 00:40:41,400
We assume everyone knows what we
know, but they don't. 

768
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:44,280
The new cook coming in doesn't 
know where to begin. 

769
00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:47,400
And I remember being a new cook,
it's like you get your prep list

770
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:50,360
and there's 1000 things on 
there, but you see, you know, 

771
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:52,200
cut some parsley and like, we'll
just start there. 

772
00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,440
Like you start with the thing 
that like, it's so easy, but 

773
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:55,600
it's probably not that 
important. 

774
00:40:56,680 --> 00:40:59,280
But if you come in and you have 
a system and you say, OK, no, 

775
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:01,680
you're going to come in, you're 
going to start with the the 

776
00:41:01,680 --> 00:41:04,600
proteins, the sauces. 
And if you don't get to the 

777
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:05,920
parsley, it's not the end of the
world. 

778
00:41:06,240 --> 00:41:07,800
But if you don't get to the 
proteins. 

779
00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:08,840
Exactly. 
Exactly. 

780
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:15,480
Yeah, great point. 
Yeah, let's talk certification. 

781
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,720
OK. 
So you're, are you still a 

782
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:20,320
Proctor for certification? 
I am, yeah. 

783
00:41:20,520 --> 00:41:23,240
So what are the different levels
of certification just through 

784
00:41:23,240 --> 00:41:24,880
the American Culinary 
Federation? 

785
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:26,880
There's, there's a multitude of 
them. 

786
00:41:26,880 --> 00:41:29,480
Of course, the highest is 
certified master chef. 

787
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:32,560
There's, there's savory and 
pastry in, in all of these. 

788
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,560
So certified master chef, 
certified master pastry chef, 

789
00:41:35,840 --> 00:41:38,880
certified executive chef, 
certified executive pastry chef.

790
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:44,640
And then you come down certified
chef to cuisine, certified 

791
00:41:44,640 --> 00:41:48,080
culinarian, you know, I don't 
know all off the top of my head.

792
00:41:48,080 --> 00:41:50,840
There's there's a a number of 
them in there and there's, 

793
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,480
there's just basic entry level 
certifications too. 

794
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:59,400
That fundamentalist I think is, 
is like the first one. 

795
00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:01,360
And you can get those in high 
school even really. 

796
00:42:01,360 --> 00:42:03,760
So yeah. 
So there's there's a lot of 

797
00:42:03,760 --> 00:42:04,840
them. 
That's that's cool. 

798
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,320
I didn't, I didn't realize that 
now there, there's there's an 

799
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:10,560
argument to be made, right. 
A lot of chefs are like, why 

800
00:42:10,560 --> 00:42:12,680
would I? 
Why would I need certification? 

801
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:15,200
But then a lot of chefs do 
believe in certification. 

802
00:42:15,200 --> 00:42:20,720
So can you Lex Friedman is you 
ever watch the Lex Friedman 

803
00:42:20,720 --> 00:42:22,240
podcast? 
He always asks these questions 

804
00:42:22,240 --> 00:42:24,320
like can you steal man the case 
for certification? 

805
00:42:26,480 --> 00:42:29,080
So chef, can you steal man the 
case for people that need 

806
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,640
certification? 
Well, you lost me, but I think I

807
00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:36,360
know where you're going. 
So you know, it's, it's a 

808
00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,680
personal journey. 
You know, some people say it's 

809
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:41,920
an ego thing and it's, it's not 
an ego thing really. 

810
00:42:41,920 --> 00:42:47,360
What it is, is it validates your
level of proficiency in, in 

811
00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:49,840
things. 
So when you're going out and 

812
00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,360
interviewing for a job and, and 
I'm, I'm looking for a chef and 

813
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:56,360
I see somebody that's a 
certified executive chef and I 

814
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:01,320
see somebody that's not, you 
know, I, I know that that CEC is

815
00:43:01,320 --> 00:43:04,840
at least at this level or 
certified chef de cuisine. 

816
00:43:06,360 --> 00:43:08,800
And they've, they've proven 
themselves at that level, you 

817
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,920
know, and whether it's 
leadership, whether it's skill, 

818
00:43:10,920 --> 00:43:13,280
technique in the kitchen, you 
know, all those kind of things. 

819
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:17,600
So, so that's, it's a validation
of, of your abilities. 

820
00:43:18,560 --> 00:43:20,760
But but then it's also a 
personal journey, you know, 

821
00:43:20,760 --> 00:43:23,000
that, that you, you do for 
yourself. 

822
00:43:23,960 --> 00:43:26,640
And, and I think there's, 
there's a lot of good positive 

823
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:30,240
things that come out of that. 
And it's not just some rubber 

824
00:43:30,240 --> 00:43:31,840
stamp thing that that people put
on. 

825
00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,080
You have to take a written test.
You have to have certain classes

826
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:37,800
depending on the level that 
you're doing. 

827
00:43:37,800 --> 00:43:39,840
And then you have to do a 
practical exam where you go in 

828
00:43:39,840 --> 00:43:42,840
the kitchen and you cook and 
you're observed by proctors. 

829
00:43:43,160 --> 00:43:45,280
And so there, there's going to 
be a certain level of experience

830
00:43:45,280 --> 00:43:47,600
that you need to have before 
you're eligible for certain 

831
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,440
certification levels. 
That that's correct, right. 

832
00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,400
So at least that it validates 
that. 

833
00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:55,840
And then like you said, there's 
there's going to be some sort of

834
00:43:56,120 --> 00:43:59,200
classroom exam and and written 
exam, I'm assuming. 

835
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:01,720
Yeah. 
So I'm, I'm assuming it's and 

836
00:44:01,720 --> 00:44:05,440
I've never taken one of these 
certifications, but I'm assuming

837
00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,600
it's probably like technique 
questions, vocabulary, food 

838
00:44:08,600 --> 00:44:11,240
costing, things like that. 
Yeah, there's, there's a lot, 

839
00:44:11,240 --> 00:44:14,920
yeah, management, human 
resources, especially depending 

840
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,160
on the level that you're going. 
For did you pass the human 

841
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,600
resources once? 
I did, did you? 

842
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:26,080
Thanks. 
Thanks to you, I passed all the 

843
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:31,000
experience you gave. 
But yeah, there's, there's a lot

844
00:44:31,000 --> 00:44:34,400
and, and the, the, the written 
exam is not an easy exam. 

845
00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,200
I mean, it's they, they've got a
lot of questions. 

846
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,360
You know, you gotta do a, a 
multiply out a recipe. 

847
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:41,720
You've got a, you know, 
calculate food cost. 

848
00:44:41,720 --> 00:44:44,800
You've got a, like I say, some 
of this human resource stuff. 

849
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:47,160
There's some legal questions in 
there. 

850
00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,840
There's some, you know, there's,
there's a lot of. 

851
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:55,280
Different things, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, a lot of that stuff.

852
00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:58,000
And then you get into the into 
the kitchen. 

853
00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:00,520
In the kitchen, the practical 
exam, again, depending on what 

854
00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:05,640
level you're at, practical exam 
is looking for you to, to do 

855
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:11,760
proficiently certain techniques.
They want to see how well you 

856
00:45:11,760 --> 00:45:15,480
can do those, those techniques, 
you know, butchering a, a, a 

857
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:22,200
chicken, a round fish, a 
lobster, and then creating these

858
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:24,400
plates and artichoke. 
Artichoke, Yeah. 

859
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:31,480
And you know, I always tell 
people when they're doing the 

860
00:45:31,480 --> 00:45:35,440
exam, you know, you can bring in
stocks because it's a limited 

861
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,000
time. 
They want to see the butchery of

862
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,000
that product. 
They assume, you know, how to 

863
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,200
make a stock so you can bring 
that stock in. 

864
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:46,160
So as, as a person, let's say 
butcher's a chicken and they've 

865
00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:47,800
got those bones from that 
chicken. 

866
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:49,880
A lot of times they think, OK, 
well, I'm going to fortify my 

867
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:52,400
stock and I'm going to put it in
there and I'm going to, you get 

868
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,640
no points for that. 
They don't ask you to fortify a 

869
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:57,080
stock. 
So, so wrap those bones up, put 

870
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:00,440
them in the refrigerator, label 
them for, for stock for later, 

871
00:46:00,960 --> 00:46:04,360
and then put it away. 
Focus on the competencies that 

872
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,400
they want to see. 
Is this for time as well I'm 

873
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:07,880
assuming? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

874
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:11,000
Because the the time that you 
spend on fortifying that stock. 

875
00:46:12,800 --> 00:46:14,560
No extra credit. 
No, nothing. 

876
00:46:15,080 --> 00:46:17,360
The payoff is 0. 
I have a question. 

877
00:46:17,360 --> 00:46:21,280
So obviously there's multiple 
ways to do a thing. 

878
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:23,960
Yeah. 
When you're going for 

879
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:26,320
certification, is it a specific 
way that they have to 

880
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:29,000
demonstrate this or I'm just 
kind of making this up? 

881
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:30,880
There's this page that I follow 
on Instagram. 

882
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,760
It's an artichoke page. 
And have you seen this? 

883
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:36,400
The guy just stands there, like 
with a sharp knife and just 

884
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,680
turns the artichoke, like in a 
second. 

885
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:40,520
Yeah. 
And just throws in a bucket and 

886
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:42,760
I look at that, it's like he's 
good. 

887
00:46:42,880 --> 00:46:43,840
Like I look at this like he's 
good. 

888
00:46:43,840 --> 00:46:45,920
But then a lot of chefs on there
like, well, he's taking off the 

889
00:46:46,160 --> 00:46:48,080
he's taking off the stem and he 
should he's throwing too much. 

890
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,760
He's like, he's good. 
Like you don't know what he 

891
00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:52,000
needs it for. 
He's good. 

892
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:54,040
He knows what he's doing. 
I'm sure he knows that he's 

893
00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:55,960
throwing that away. 
And if he needed it for that, 

894
00:46:55,960 --> 00:46:59,480
he'd probably save it. 
But if someone's going into a 

895
00:46:59,480 --> 00:47:02,240
competition, I'm sorry, a 
certification test and they just

896
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:03,880
boom, boom, boom, boom, boom. 
I know how to do an artichoke, 

897
00:47:03,880 --> 00:47:05,800
but are you looking at that? 
But that's not how we want it. 

898
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:07,440
That's not that's not where 
you're. 

899
00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,800
Supposed to it, it it does ask 
for the artichoke to be cleaned 

900
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,080
and prepared a certain way. 
So, you know, you're going to 

901
00:47:15,080 --> 00:47:17,160
have to have that stem on there.
You're going to have to, you 

902
00:47:17,160 --> 00:47:20,760
know, this out of the other. 
So yeah, there's from that 

903
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:24,600
standpoint, but but how that 
person gets to the end result, 

904
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,000
as long as it's a good 
technique. 

905
00:47:28,120 --> 00:47:32,080
I remember we were in a 
competition and, and somebody 

906
00:47:32,080 --> 00:47:36,360
was butchering a salmon and I 
heard the judges, I was 

907
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,000
competing at the time and I 
heard the judges talking about 

908
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:41,480
the knife that the person was 
using to clean the salmon. 

909
00:47:42,000 --> 00:47:44,080
And it's not, that's not the 
proper knife to use to clean the

910
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:46,120
salmon. 
The hell, you need to use this 

911
00:47:46,120 --> 00:47:48,720
knife, not that knife. 
And, you know, at the end of the

912
00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,560
day, how's the salmon cleaned 
is, you know, that's what we're 

913
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:55,600
judging is the technique and 
the, the, you know, 'cause you 

914
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,360
know, how would you fabricate a 
chicken? 

915
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,480
You'd take a boning knife out 
and you'd, you'd break down a 

916
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,120
chicken. 
Well, you know, I've seen people

917
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,720
do it with a Chinese cleaver. 
Yeah, very efficiently. 

918
00:48:05,840 --> 00:48:08,360
Very efficiently, in fact. 
Faster. 

919
00:48:09,040 --> 00:48:11,160
So you know what's the right 
knife? 

920
00:48:11,440 --> 00:48:14,160
So I have something that I don't
know if you told me this, but 

921
00:48:14,160 --> 00:48:18,000
it's definitely something that I
say now, it's like the most 

922
00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,760
efficient path to get to the 
most delicious result, right? 

923
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:23,120
The shortest path to get there, 
right? 

924
00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:26,080
So if that means that, and 
again, this is this is how I 

925
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:27,480
would train my chefs in the 
restaurant. 

926
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:30,920
If that means that you use this 
or that means that you use that,

927
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:34,080
is it most delicious and most 
efficient for the ideal outcome.

928
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:36,880
So don't waste your time doing 
something that because it's 

929
00:48:36,880 --> 00:48:39,400
proper, but it doesn't yield the
most efficient result. 

930
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:43,640
But also at the same time, I'm 
not pass. 

931
00:48:43,640 --> 00:48:45,960
It's not a pass or fail test. 
It's to the guest enjoy. 

932
00:48:45,960 --> 00:48:47,160
And we need to be ready for 
service. 

933
00:48:47,160 --> 00:48:50,680
So there's some some some nuance
there. 

934
00:48:50,720 --> 00:48:52,920
Yeah, there's, you know, there's
techniques, there's classical 

935
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,120
techniques, there's all this 
kind of stuff, which is great. 

936
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,640
And, and I'm a firm believer in 
teaching those because it 

937
00:48:57,640 --> 00:49:00,360
teaches people the basics, you 
know, and I, I kind of equate 

938
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:05,760
that to basketball players. 
You can have the greatest slam 

939
00:49:05,760 --> 00:49:09,160
dunk in the world, but if, if 
you can't make a free throw, 

940
00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:11,240
you're you're no good to the 
team. 

941
00:49:11,240 --> 00:49:13,120
You know, if every time you get 
to the free throw line and 

942
00:49:13,120 --> 00:49:16,440
you're so focus on the basics 
and then you can practice on 

943
00:49:16,440 --> 00:49:17,720
those, you know, those kind of 
fun. 

944
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:20,280
Yeah. 
And, and like in boxing, the big

945
00:49:20,280 --> 00:49:22,480
basics win fights. 
A good jab, a good jab is going 

946
00:49:22,480 --> 00:49:23,600
to win, right? 
Yeah. 

947
00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:28,400
It's not all the flash. 
And so you take that idea. 

948
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:33,280
And for people that don't know, 
when I, when I started doing 

949
00:49:33,280 --> 00:49:35,720
cooking tests and, you know, we 
began this together, when we'd 

950
00:49:35,720 --> 00:49:39,200
hire chefs, we'd give them 
basically the certified 

951
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,520
executive chef exam. 
Here's a whole chicken, here's a

952
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,280
whole lobster. 
Artichoke fish make something. 

953
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,640
And it was amazing to me, and 
I've talked about this a lot at 

954
00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,240
length, but we haven't talked 
about it in some time. 

955
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,520
It's amazing to me having so 
many chefs, how many crumble 

956
00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,640
when they get that test, it's 
and they're applying for 

957
00:49:57,640 --> 00:50:00,200
executive chef level. 
Like if I'm a chef hiring other 

958
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:01,840
executive chefs, I've seen them 
crumble. 

959
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:04,080
It's like the worst is like they
hand their artichoke. 

960
00:50:04,160 --> 00:50:05,920
The artichoke is like the 
Achilles heel, is what I've. 

961
00:50:05,960 --> 00:50:08,680
Used for my chefs. 
That seems to be the one that's 

962
00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:11,480
like, oh, give it to my colony. 
Or, you know, you got to, you 

963
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:12,320
got to do that one. 
Yourself. 

964
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:13,560
Yeah. 
It's your exam, not theirs. 

965
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:16,760
Yeah, yeah. 
But but the whole chicken, and 

966
00:50:16,760 --> 00:50:20,280
it's something that that we 
discussed, it's something that I

967
00:50:20,280 --> 00:50:23,160
picked up from you, is that when
you get the chicken, it's like, 

968
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:25,960
well, are you just going to take
the breast off or are you going 

969
00:50:25,960 --> 00:50:27,560
to make stock? 
Are you going to make a farce? 

970
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,680
Are you going to make a roulade?
Like what are you going to do 

971
00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:31,840
with the skin? 
Are you are you going to trust 

972
00:50:31,840 --> 00:50:33,760
it? 
Like demonstrate so much just 

973
00:50:34,680 --> 00:50:37,280
with the chicken. 
There's hundreds of techniques 

974
00:50:37,280 --> 00:50:40,400
that you could demonstrate, but 
a lot of people just think saute

975
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:41,680
the breast. 
Yeah. 

976
00:50:41,920 --> 00:50:43,960
And you know, to take that a 
step further, you give them the 

977
00:50:43,960 --> 00:50:46,600
chicken, they're going to make a
sauteed chicken breast, 

978
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,520
whatever, even pound it out, 
whatever they're going to do 

979
00:50:48,520 --> 00:50:50,120
with it. 
They take the, the breasts off 

980
00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:52,760
the chicken and then they put 
the rest of that carcass with 

981
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,960
the legs and the thighs and the,
the wings and they put it in a 

982
00:50:55,960 --> 00:50:57,320
pan and put it back in the 
refrigerator. 

983
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,560
No, if you're going to use the 
breast, that's fine. 

984
00:51:01,560 --> 00:51:05,440
But butcher the chicken because 
next person that goes over to, 

985
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:08,720
to use the rest of that chicken,
they're going to have to start 

986
00:51:08,720 --> 00:51:11,680
the butchery process also. 
So do the do the butchering 

987
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:15,280
process in one, take what you 
need and leave the rest for 

988
00:51:15,280 --> 00:51:18,960
later utilization. 
So for people that, so you have 

989
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:21,000
the certified executive chef, 
but above that is the certified 

990
00:51:21,000 --> 00:51:25,760
master chef and that is probably
a little bit harder to pass. 

991
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,360
So what, what does the typical 
CMC exam look like 'cause I know

992
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:31,520
it's changed recently, right? 
Is it only done? 

993
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:33,760
Is it part? 
Is it still done at the CIA? 

994
00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:38,560
You know, it's, I think so. 
I think the, the majority of 

995
00:51:38,560 --> 00:51:40,840
them are done at Schoolcraft 
College these days up in 

996
00:51:40,840 --> 00:51:44,720
Livonia, MI. 
And you know, they've revamped 

997
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,080
it. 
And I'm, I'm not that familiar 

998
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,160
with all the changes. 
I know they've shortened it. 

999
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:53,160
It was a 10 day exam. 
I think it went down to, to 8 

1000
00:51:53,160 --> 00:51:56,520
days and it might be down to six
or something like that. 

1001
00:51:56,840 --> 00:52:01,280
But you know, it's, it's really 
intensive and they, they touch 

1002
00:52:01,280 --> 00:52:04,000
on all the things they touch on 
obviously garmische work, they 

1003
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:09,320
touch on some baking work, they 
touch on mystery basket, they 

1004
00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:13,120
touch on continental cuisine. 
They assigned you a dish from a 

1005
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:16,880
country that you may not know. 
You know what, everybody gets a 

1006
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:20,560
different country. 
There's and it's a high 

1007
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:25,120
pressure, you know, and it 
should be, I think it's, it's a 

1008
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,080
low success rate. 
There's a lot of people that are

1009
00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,200
kind of, you know, not, not too 
crazy about that. 

1010
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:34,320
I'd like to see the success rate
maybe come up a little bit, but 

1011
00:52:34,320 --> 00:52:36,040
I think it should be a hard 
test. 

1012
00:52:36,280 --> 00:52:40,600
It's certified master chef. 
You know, it's it's, it should 

1013
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:42,600
be a hard test and to get to 
that level. 

1014
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:47,080
And how How many are? 
Are there like 60? 

1015
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:51,200
Or something, yeah, 68 to 70 
something, yeah. 

1016
00:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,440
And there's some legends in 
there like Ferdinand Mets, Fritz

1017
00:52:54,440 --> 00:52:56,600
Sauna Schmidt. 
If you know, it's funny, here's 

1018
00:52:56,600 --> 00:53:01,360
a funny story. 
So Fritz, we, we did a dinner. 

1019
00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:05,840
No, we didn't do a dinner. 
We did an event in Dallas and 

1020
00:53:06,240 --> 00:53:11,160
certified master chefs at 
Leonard Fritz, Sauna Schmidt, 

1021
00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,320
Ferdinand Mets were there and it
was a lot of other chefs. 

1022
00:53:14,320 --> 00:53:17,280
I was there. 
And, you know, it was one of 

1023
00:53:17,280 --> 00:53:19,640
those things that was like great
to, to sit at the table with 

1024
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:21,800
them and, and, and spend some 
time with Fritz. 

1025
00:53:22,000 --> 00:53:25,000
And I know you know him and we 
bumped into him at events 

1026
00:53:25,000 --> 00:53:25,920
together. 
Sure. 

1027
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:30,480
And it's funny because years, 
years, years, years later, he 

1028
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:34,280
commented on one of my chef's 
PSA posts like, who is this 

1029
00:53:34,320 --> 00:53:40,120
doing this? 
Who is this chef posting all 

1030
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:41,880
this? 
And I, and I responded to him as

1031
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:43,480
a chef. 
You know, Andre Inter, we met 

1032
00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,320
years ago and I, I, I, I named 
the places that we met. 

1033
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:48,320
You know, we cooked together in 
Dallas here at blah, blah, blah.

1034
00:53:48,320 --> 00:53:49,880
And he's like, OK, good job, 
chef. 

1035
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:55,080
OK, I just want to say good job.
He was like, who is this person?

1036
00:53:55,240 --> 00:53:57,360
Maybe to be the chef's PSA 
That's. 

1037
00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:01,280
Too funny. 
That's too funny. 

1038
00:54:02,160 --> 00:54:03,640
But I got a lot of respect for 
those guys. 

1039
00:54:04,120 --> 00:54:05,600
So you went to the CIA, by the 
way, I was just there. 

1040
00:54:05,600 --> 00:54:06,840
I did. 
I just came back from the CII. 

1041
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,360
Teach some leadership stuff for 
the hospitality Academy, the one

1042
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:11,560
in SAN. 
Antonio in San Antonio, yeah, I 

1043
00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:14,760
went to Hyde Park and actually 
when I went, that was the only 

1044
00:54:14,760 --> 00:54:16,040
one, Hyde Park. 
Beautiful. 

1045
00:54:16,040 --> 00:54:17,520
By the way, have you? 
When was the last time you went?

1046
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:20,480
You know, I went up there about 
3 years ago. 

1047
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,200
We went up there with the 
Colavito folks. 

1048
00:54:22,560 --> 00:54:24,880
Their their dining room for the.
Oh, beautiful. 

1049
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:26,040
It's. 
Yeah, insane. 

1050
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:27,800
It's it's insane. 
I see. 

1051
00:54:27,920 --> 00:54:29,760
I I like, I kind of regret now 
not going. 

1052
00:54:30,800 --> 00:54:31,920
Yeah. 
I mean, it was beautiful. 

1053
00:54:31,960 --> 00:54:35,120
It was, yeah. 
It was a great, it was a great 

1054
00:54:35,120 --> 00:54:38,320
time in my life from a career 
standpoint. 

1055
00:54:38,320 --> 00:54:42,760
It, it really, you know, it's, 
you know, you, you kind of get 

1056
00:54:42,760 --> 00:54:46,760
up there and all of a sudden all
the, the rains are, are loose 

1057
00:54:46,760 --> 00:54:51,520
and you can explore this and try
that and so much knowledge up 

1058
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:53,480
there. 
The, the, the library. 

1059
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:56,960
I I went 79 to 81, graduated in 
February of 81. 

1060
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:01,840
But the interesting thing about 
culinary schools is culinary 

1061
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:04,800
programs are, it's a very 
interesting world right now. 

1062
00:55:04,800 --> 00:55:05,960
I'm curious to see where it's 
going to go. 

1063
00:55:05,960 --> 00:55:10,440
I bumped into the new director 
of the CIA when I was in Chicago

1064
00:55:10,440 --> 00:55:11,720
recently. 
We had we had a good 

1065
00:55:11,720 --> 00:55:13,560
conversation. 
Maybe I'll get him on the show. 

1066
00:55:15,720 --> 00:55:18,440
He was talking about how the 
industry is different now. 

1067
00:55:18,440 --> 00:55:21,520
It's not, it's not the industry 
that you and I got into now. 

1068
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:23,640
There's so many different career
paths for a chef. 

1069
00:55:23,840 --> 00:55:26,840
You know, you can go into 
content creation, whatever the 

1070
00:55:26,840 --> 00:55:29,680
case may be. 
But what's, what's really 

1071
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:34,200
interesting is the mentorship 
aspect and culinary schools are 

1072
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,840
now incorporating AI. 
There's more online training. 

1073
00:55:36,840 --> 00:55:40,280
You know, the ability to learn 
is much quicker than it was when

1074
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:41,960
we were coming up. 
It was just, you know, the book,

1075
00:55:41,960 --> 00:55:43,760
the library or the classroom or 
work, right. 

1076
00:55:45,240 --> 00:55:48,640
And I know you do some work with
some high schools and they, they

1077
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,240
have incredible. 
I went to a culinary school in, 

1078
00:55:51,800 --> 00:55:53,960
there's one here in Austin that 
I went to and I did another one 

1079
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:56,320
in Dallas where I went and I, I 
did a lecture. 

1080
00:55:56,320 --> 00:56:02,480
But the, the school's kitchens 
are nicer than some of the nicer

1081
00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:03,760
than the culinary school I went 
to. 

1082
00:56:03,760 --> 00:56:05,880
They're incredible and the 
programs are really incredible. 

1083
00:56:06,360 --> 00:56:09,640
Yeah, what what they have now, 
it's, it's so refreshing because

1084
00:56:10,000 --> 00:56:13,520
you look at these culinary 
programs, when I was coming up, 

1085
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,120
we had home EC. 
That was it. 

1086
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:19,480
Now they have these career 
centers and you know, there's a 

1087
00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:21,960
a great one in, in, in 
Mansfield. 

1088
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,960
There's one great program up 
here in Georgetown. 

1089
00:56:26,840 --> 00:56:30,080
Emily's the instructor up there,
and I've never been to her 

1090
00:56:30,080 --> 00:56:32,520
facility. 
Yeah, I've never been to her 

1091
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:35,480
facility. 
But I've seen what she does with

1092
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:37,560
those students and brings them 
to competitions. 

1093
00:56:37,800 --> 00:56:40,400
I'm I'm heavily involved in the 
Pro Start competition, which is 

1094
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:43,520
a high school competition for 
high school teams. 

1095
00:56:44,720 --> 00:56:47,400
You know, I've done some FCCLA 
stuff. 

1096
00:56:48,240 --> 00:56:50,600
You know, there's a lot of 
programs out there. 

1097
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:55,520
And as long as we're shouting 
out Chef David Roberson in 

1098
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:58,440
Mansfield, his program is a 
tremendous program. 

1099
00:56:59,320 --> 00:57:02,200
They're, they're mentoring 
these, these young culinarians 

1100
00:57:02,200 --> 00:57:07,720
to, to really, you know, excel 
because, you know, we, we get 

1101
00:57:07,720 --> 00:57:10,000
back to that, that first thing 
about competition, wanting to 

1102
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:13,120
know if you start in high 
school, you've already gotten 

1103
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,680
past that, that fear factor of, 
of the, the hardest competition 

1104
00:57:17,680 --> 00:57:20,600
for a, a chef that's been in the
industry is that first one, 

1105
00:57:21,000 --> 00:57:23,320
because they're afraid to fail. 
They think if they don't get a 

1106
00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:25,280
gold medal, then it's going to 
question their cooking 

1107
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:26,720
abilities. 
And it's not. 

1108
00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:29,960
There's certified master chefs 
that, that compete and things 

1109
00:57:29,960 --> 00:57:31,760
happen. 
You know, they don't, they don't

1110
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:34,040
gold medal all the time and they
don't sometimes, you know, 

1111
00:57:34,320 --> 00:57:36,760
whatever. 
But what they're doing in these,

1112
00:57:36,760 --> 00:57:39,640
these culinary programs in these
high schools is amazing. 

1113
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:42,960
And, and you see the skill level
of these students. 

1114
00:57:42,960 --> 00:57:47,160
I judge that. 
I judge, judge college stuff. 

1115
00:57:47,200 --> 00:57:50,560
And sometimes I'm doing the high
school competition and then I I 

1116
00:57:50,560 --> 00:57:53,320
go to the NACOS competition and 
I look at the professionals 

1117
00:57:53,320 --> 00:57:56,680
there and stuff from the high 
schools a step above. 

1118
00:57:56,800 --> 00:57:58,760
But I think it's because they 
have mentors. 

1119
00:57:58,840 --> 00:58:01,280
Yeah, really, really honed in. 
And I think that's important 

1120
00:58:01,280 --> 00:58:03,840
because mentorship, I mean, 
we've, we've had this 

1121
00:58:03,840 --> 00:58:06,760
conversation many times. 
Like if you're not giving back 

1122
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,200
to the next generation, what are
you doing? 

1123
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:09,840
Yeah, Yeah, it's the most 
important job. 

1124
00:58:09,840 --> 00:58:11,080
Yeah, yeah. 
Exactly. 

1125
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:14,720
Exactly. 
OK, as we start wrapping up the 

1126
00:58:14,720 --> 00:58:17,120
show, let's talk about the Mount
Rushmore of chefs. 

1127
00:58:17,240 --> 00:58:22,000
OK, if you had your Mount 
Rushmore personal to you, who 

1128
00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:25,960
are the 4/4 chefs that you can't
say me? 

1129
00:58:26,680 --> 00:58:31,080
Oh well. 
So besides me he gets stuck you.

1130
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:36,040
Can't say me. 
So you know, I've heard you ask 

1131
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:39,800
this question, you know, when on
your on your podcast and you 

1132
00:58:39,800 --> 00:58:41,280
know, there's some greats out 
there. 

1133
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,520
You know, people mentioned 
Thomas Keller, they, they 

1134
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,520
mentioned Danielle Belude, they,
they mentioned, you know, Paul 

1135
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:49,680
Bakus and Ilan Dukas and, and I 
mean all those, those guys are 

1136
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:52,280
great. 
But you know, I, I started kind 

1137
00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:54,880
of thinking about, first of all,
Mount Rushmore itself. 

1138
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:58,360
Why are those 4 presidents on 
Mount Rushmore? 

1139
00:58:58,360 --> 00:58:59,960
I don't know. 
And I, I don't want to get into 

1140
00:58:59,960 --> 00:59:02,560
that. 
But you know, for me, whoever 

1141
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:06,200
did Mount Rushmore, I think it, 
it would be who, who had an 

1142
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,520
impact in my career. 
You know, I think Ferdinand Mets

1143
00:59:09,520 --> 00:59:13,960
for sure, Fritz Sonnen Schmidt 
for sure. 

1144
00:59:14,680 --> 00:59:18,280
My my first mentor, chef Artie 
Dupuis. 

1145
00:59:19,040 --> 00:59:22,040
Big part of your book. 
Yeah, got me, got me started 

1146
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,800
into competitions. 
And, you know, I worked for him 

1147
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:28,880
for a very short period of time,
relatively speaking. 

1148
00:59:28,960 --> 00:59:30,640
Well, just a short period of 
time. 

1149
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:35,000
But the impact that he had on me
as as a a culinarian, A 

1150
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:38,520
competitor, a father, a human 
being, you know, just. 

1151
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:41,160
This is New Orleans. 
No, this was up in New Jersey 

1152
00:59:41,160 --> 00:59:45,080
before I went to school. 
Yeah, and then the 4th 1. 

1153
00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,520
I can't use you, huh? 
Jeez, I yeah, I'm. 

1154
00:59:48,160 --> 00:59:51,640
Really stuck. 
Yeah, well. 

1155
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,760
But I don't know who it would 
be, but you know, somebody 

1156
00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:01,160
that's that's really had a had a
big impact on on me, you know, 

1157
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:06,480
Chef Andrea Puzzo in New 
Orleans, that when I graduated 

1158
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:08,880
culinary and I went down there 
and worked for him. 

1159
01:00:08,880 --> 01:00:12,160
I worked for him for four years 
and. 

1160
01:00:13,640 --> 01:00:17,400
You know, that was a influential
time in my my career. 

1161
01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:21,720
Yeah, yeah. 
And for people that don't know, 

1162
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,640
like I love busting your chops. 
People that don't know I love 

1163
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:28,680
busting your chops. 
But thank you so much for 

1164
01:00:28,680 --> 01:00:29,760
everything that you. 
Did for my career. 

1165
01:00:30,120 --> 01:00:31,800
Yeah, I appreciate that. 
Thank you. 

1166
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:36,200
I cannot be the chef I am 
without having the mentorship 

1167
01:00:36,200 --> 01:00:38,760
from you and working under you 
and instilling so much 

1168
01:00:38,760 --> 01:00:42,080
professionalism and not letting 
me win even when I thought I 

1169
01:00:42,080 --> 01:00:44,640
should have won. 
But it was there were some great

1170
01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:47,720
valuable lessons and a lot of 
what I teach now in Chef's PSA, 

1171
01:00:48,080 --> 01:00:49,760
what people don't realize, you 
probably pick it up. 

1172
01:00:49,760 --> 01:00:51,320
It's like I think I said that to
Andre. 

1173
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:53,920
He's regarding my words, but 
it's true. 

1174
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,160
It's true. 
So I want to make sure that you 

1175
01:00:56,160 --> 01:00:58,600
know that that I acknowledge 
that here while you're while 

1176
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:02,040
you're on the show, where can 
people, first of all, where can 

1177
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,400
people find you and where can 
people get your book? 

1178
01:01:04,800 --> 01:01:07,200
Well, before you get off onto 
that, I, I, I want to say, and I

1179
01:01:07,200 --> 01:01:11,800
say it in the book, you know, I,
I think you give me a lot of 

1180
01:01:11,800 --> 01:01:14,120
credit for things that I taught 
you, but, but I think you taught

1181
01:01:14,120 --> 01:01:18,000
me every bit as much, if not 
more just working with you and 

1182
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:21,360
watching you. 
And, you know, the goal for a 

1183
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:25,880
chef or for anybody, a mentor, 
is to see the mentee do better 

1184
01:01:25,880 --> 01:01:28,320
than they have. 
And, and, and that, you know, 

1185
01:01:28,360 --> 01:01:31,240
that that's been a great 
experience watching you do that.

1186
01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:38,160
But I can be found on Chef PD 
Mitchell on Instagram and the 

1187
01:01:38,160 --> 01:01:44,080
book is available on Amazon and 
it's also available as an e-book

1188
01:01:44,560 --> 01:01:47,120
on on Amazon. 
Awesome. 

1189
01:01:47,560 --> 01:01:52,280
Well, thank you chef. 
This was fun, and this was tame.

1190
01:01:52,760 --> 01:01:55,000
Yeah, it's because I well. 
I have a cut in my mouth. 

1191
01:01:55,360 --> 01:01:56,840
Well, how'd that happen? 
I was. 

1192
01:01:57,480 --> 01:01:59,160
I was licking stuff. 
I shouldn't have been licking 

1193
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:02,080
you. 
Know you you told the audience 

1194
01:02:02,080 --> 01:02:05,680
that you love busting my chops 
and and when we sat down Andre 

1195
01:02:05,680 --> 01:02:08,440
told me he says you know you got
to push farther down the so the 

1196
01:02:08,440 --> 01:02:11,400
camera can get a good good and 
the farther I got down there's a

1197
01:02:11,400 --> 01:02:15,680
leak in this in this and it's 
dripping on my shoulder the 

1198
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:18,280
entire time I. 
Won't edit that out. 

1199
01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:24,240
Thanks for being Doc. 
Thank you. 

1200
01:02:25,520 --> 01:02:26,840
Well, I hope you enjoyed that 
episode. 

1201
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:28,680
If you want to support the show,
if you're watching on YouTube, 

1202
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:29,920
hit the like and subscribe 
button. 

1203
01:02:29,920 --> 01:02:32,880
If you're listening on Apple or 
Spotify or anywhere else, make 

1204
01:02:32,880 --> 01:02:35,560
sure you leave five stars. 
It's a five star podcast. 

1205
01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:37,880
I'm a five star man. 
If you want to get chef brains, 

1206
01:02:38,080 --> 01:02:42,000
I have lots of books available. 
English, Spanish, Italian, some 

1207
01:02:42,000 --> 01:02:44,160
are free. 
You got free ebooks? 

1208
01:02:44,160 --> 01:02:46,400
Go to chefspsa.com where you get
all of that. 

1209
01:02:46,880 --> 01:02:49,520
If you want early access to 
podcast episodes, you could 

1210
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:53,600
become a subscriber on Spotify 
and also on Sub Stack. 

1211
01:02:53,800 --> 01:02:55,960
We'll see you next week at the 
Porno Music, no? 

1212
01:02:56,880 --> 01:03:00,120
Small Andre in the kitchen 
mixing, dropping chef knowledge,

1213
01:03:00,320 --> 01:03:04,360
no fiction, stirring up the BT 
enough the session, listen close

1214
01:03:04,840 --> 01:03:05,920
classes in session.