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Hello chefs, this is Chefs PSA 
Podcast. 

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I'm your host Andre Natara. 
On today's episode, we're going 

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to talk about why you need to 
respect the last generation of 

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chefs. 
Stay tuned 

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now before we get into it quick 
update. 

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If you're watching on YouTube, 
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It's five star podcast. 

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books there, including Culinary 
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more. 

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Plus, I released a new merch. 
You can see this hoodie that I 

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got, Super Swanier white Chef's 
PSA hoodie. 

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I just put out some new stuff on
the Chef's PSA store, the Just 

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Cook line of Chef's Wear. 
So go get that while you're at 

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it. 
Anyway, what is this episode 

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about? 
This episode is about respecting

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the chefs that came before you. 
I think there's a certain rite 

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of passage that we all have to 
go through where initially we 

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think our chefs know everything 
and then we believe that they 

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know nothing. 
And then we think we're better 

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than them and then we call them 
up for advice because we 

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realized they were right out all
along. 

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Similar to the relationship that
we have with our parents, a lot 

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of us at least, right? 
Sometimes you think your parents

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know everything when you're 
young and then they know nothing

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when you're a teenager. 
And then when you get older you 

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realize that maybe they were 
right the whole time. 

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Maybe not all parents and maybe 
not all chefs, but there's 

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something to be said about the 
previous generation that came 

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before you. 
I like to use the expression if 

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you had to dig a 10 foot hole 
and someone else dug 9 feet and 

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the only thing you had to dig 
was the remaining 1 foot, could 

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you take credit for digging A10 
foot hole and give no credit to 

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the person that dug the 1st 9 
feet? 

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Well, that's basically what 
happens here because a lot of 

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new chefs get in position and 
they want to diminish the old 

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guard as if everything that is 
current is right. 

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Everything that you're doing 
right now with regards to food 

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trends, the way that you cook, 
what's popular, that's the right

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way to do it because it's now 
you may have blind spots. 

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The previous generation thought 
the exact same thing and the one

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before that thought the exact 
same thing. 

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So who's right? 
There'll be a generation in 

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front of you that's going to 
look at what you're doing now 

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and think it's wrong. 
When I was a young chef and I 

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got my first executive chef job,
my chef mentor was still in the 

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building. 
And I remember when I got that 

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job, I thought to myself, I'm 
going to change this. 

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I'm going to change that. 
We're going to stop using that 

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Morton's kosher salt and go to 
Diamond Crystal. 

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We're going to make our stock 
this way because I like oxtail 

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in my stock. 
And I started making little 

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subtle changes because now I'm 
the chef and I knew better and I

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tried so hard to outshine my 
previous chef. 

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The funny thing was is when 
you're in the shit, that's the 

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first person you call. 
Everyone knows what they're 

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doing until they get to that 
point when they realize, oh 

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shit, I don't know what I'm 
doing and I need help. 

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And then you start to understand
some of the decisions that were 

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made and why they were made. 
You have to think about all the 

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chefs that came before you. 
You know, you look at the chefs 

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that are very relevant right 
now. 

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And even the chefs that I may 
name might not be the most 

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relevant chefs, but they're 
relevant to me. 

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When you think about a lot of 
these Nordic chefs, Renee 

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Rezeppi, you know, he's the, 
he's the king of the Nordic 

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chefs. 
And you have to think to 

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yourself, they learned that from
somewhere. 

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Yes, they put their own 
interpretation and their own 

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personality into what they did 
with their restaurants and their

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food, but they learned it from 
somewhere. 

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They had to have come from great
kitchens. 

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They had to pass through there. 
There's no way around it. 

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We all went to culinary school. 
Well, maybe not all of us, but a

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lot of us went to culinary 
school and we had chef 

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instructors there that were 
teaching us the fundamentals, 

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the classics, the classic 
repertoire of Escoffier, classic

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cuisine. 
How do you make a stock? 

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How do you make a consomme? 
What are the five mother sauces?

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No one ever talks about the 
father sauces. 

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Are there father sauces? 
I don't know. 

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And you build this foundation by
going to culinary school because

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when you leave, you have a 
certain skill set that the 

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employer as the chef who's 
hiring you knows that you should

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have a certain baseline of 
knowledge. 

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They're not expecting you to 
perform at the highest level 

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right out of culinary school. 
They're expecting you to have 

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the basics. 
You know how to use a knife. 

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If they tell you, do you know 
what a brown stock is? 

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You know what it is. 
If they ask you to make a 

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bechamel, they, they know you 
have a general idea of how to 

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make a bechamel or a hollandaise
or balute, or you know what Mira

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poi is. 
You know basic terminology. 

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You know how to move in a 
kitchen. 

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You know what the uniform looks 
like. 

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You don't need the culinary 
dictionary to answer every 

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question. 
If I tell you I need something, 

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there's a good chance if they 
taught it to you in culinary 

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school, you'll have a vague 
understanding of what it is. 

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So where do we begin to respect 
the teachers at culinary school?

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Right? 
They are the ones that are 

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providing you with your first 
level of education. 

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I am still in contact with my 
very first chef. 

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My first chef instructor and I 
are still friends to this day. 

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Spoke to him last week. 
Shout out to Kirk Bachman who 

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has the Ultimate Dish podcast 
and runs the Escoffier schools. 

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So another good podcast to go 
check out. 

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But I owe him a lot. 
He gave me my first lessons. 

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He taught me about stocks and 
sauces and culinary 101, taught 

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me how to use a knife, taught me
how to not be afraid and to not 

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get my hands dirty when 
marinating chicken. 

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I'm using my chef in a practical
sense. 

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His father was also a chef who 
taught him right. 

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One of the chefs that I worked 
under for many years taught me 

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so much, the fundamentals, how 
to make a stock better than how 

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I made it in school, how to 
improve on the fundamentals that

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I have. 
But who taught them? 

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We think we just arrived at the 
Internet or the light bulb. 

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We don't think about the 
hundreds of failures that went 

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into developing something before
it got to the point which it's 

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usable for us. 
Bad ideas get pruned off 100 

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hours of doing something gives 
you the right to make the 

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decision on it because you've 
already figured out the 

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variations and the nuance. 
The person questioning it and 

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being told hasn't put in the 100
hours to do it yet, so you have 

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to give respect to the person 
who, through countless hours of 

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trial and error, figured it out.
We take a lot of things for 

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granted, and you don't have to 
like everything about the 

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current system. 
But had it not been for 

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Escoffier, codifying everything 
for us, developing the kitchen 

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brigade, structuring kitchens in
a certain way, giving you 

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guidelines for many recipes, 
where would we be right now? 

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Respect is due there. 
Where would we be if it weren't 

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for chefs like Marco Pierre 
White or Pierre Kaufman or Paul 

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Bacoos or Joel Rubuchon? 
Everyone out here making 

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rubuchon potatoes and no one 
stops for a minute to think. 

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How long did it take Joel 
Rubuchon to come up with that? 

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How did he figure it out? 
How many times did he fail 

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before we got to the end 
product? 

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And what were the iterations 
after that to make it more 

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efficient for service? 
You know, a lot of times I put 

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up these chefs. 
PSA is like, no one cares how 

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you did it in school. 
No one cares how you did it at 

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your last job. 
Partly true, partly not true 

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because respect is due to the 
person that taught you and gave 

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you some new skills. 
Now, it doesn't mean that they 

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necessarily translate to the new
job. 

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You have those skills now, they 
belong to you and they were 

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taught to you by someone. 
And unless you know, they're 

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they're tuning into another 
dimension and downloading 

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information directly into their 
brain, they learned it from 

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someone. 
And I promise you, most of the 

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things that I've seen in cooking
haven't been downloaded from the

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ether. 
And sometimes we like to give 

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shit to culinary students when 
they come out of school. 

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They say, well, in school, they 
taught me how to do it this way.

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Or, for example, you're doing it
wrong because school said to do 

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it like this. 
So if you're a culinary student,

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I want you to listen to this 
right now. 

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There's a reason why school 
teaches you a certain way and 

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they tell you to not deviate 
from the way that they're 

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teaching you. 
And I'm about to tell you why. 

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This also may help chefs who get
frustrated when culinary 

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students tell them why are they 
teaching them to cook that way. 

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There's more efficient ways. 
Well, put yourself in the 

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position of the culinary school 
director. 

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You have 20 chef instructors, 
and all of them have differing 

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opinions on the right way to 
make a veal stock or a Demi 

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gloss or an Espanol. 
Whatever the case may be, they 

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all know a different way to do 
it. 

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But how are you going to pass a 
student from one class to the 

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next class? 
And how are you all going to 

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sign off and agree on something 
if all of you do it a different 

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way? 
You're going to confuse the 

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student. 
There has to be a baseline of 

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expectation that they all agree 
on and say, look, we might know 

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100 different ways to do this, 
but this is how we're going to 

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graduate our students by doing 
it this way because this is this

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is the way that we all agree is 
the most universal method. 

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That's why they do it. 
It doesn't mean that they don't 

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know other ways, and it doesn't 
mean that all the other ways are

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wrong. 
It's just that school teaches 

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you a certain way as to not 
confuse the student with 1000 

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different ways to do it. 
It establishes A consistency so 

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they could progress through the 
program or the curriculum with 

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the correct answers. 
So students, if you're listening

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to this, you understand now that
there are more ways to do it 

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than what you're being taught in
school and chefs out there in 

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the real world, you also 
understand now that's why 

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they're being taught that way is
because they need to graduate 

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them through the system the same
way it is in your kitchen. 

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I want you to do it this way 
because you're working here. 

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It's not that you don't know 
other ways, it's just that this 

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is the most efficient way for 
you to do it while you're 

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working at this particular 
place. 

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I would never have any of the 
success that I've ever achieved 

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as a chef had it not been for 
the chefs that came before me. 

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As a young chef, I used to sit 
down and listen to the older 

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master chefs talk and I was just
quiet. 

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I would just listen. 
I would absorb it and whatever 

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they said now to me seems like 
common sense, but back then it 

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was magical. 
Some of the culinary advice that

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they'd give me, like make sure 
you cook the duck fat side down.

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I had never cooked a duck, so I 
was like, OK, I remember that. 

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I logged that into the back of 
my mind. 

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It's like duck cook, fat side 
down. 

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Got it. 
It's like stuff that we take for

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granted. 
It's the curse of knowledge. 

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We take it for granted now, but 
when you're hearing it for the 

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first time, it's mind blowing. 
The old stories that I used to 

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hear, you know, they would test 
meet with skewers, metal skewers

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or cake testers. 
And I remember the chef telling 

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me the reason we all have 
mustaches is because we all have

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burns on our lips from the cake 
testers. 

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I would always use my wrist. 
Sometimes I use my, my lower 

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lip, whatever. 
A lot of times you just use a 

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digital meat thermometer. 
Anyway, we digress. 

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But that knowledge is 
transmitted from the previous 

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generation of chefs to the new 
generation of chefs. 

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Not just that knowledge, but a 
lot of the things that we do as 

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chefs currently. 
If you're, if you're a chef 

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right now running your kitchen, 
you might say the only way to do

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this right is this way. 
You have to ask yourself, why do

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you say that? 
Is it because that you've 

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iterated hundreds of times and 
come to that conclusion, or is 

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it that someone else did before 
you? 

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Is the preference of a previous 
chef that you worked for the way

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that your chefs cooked will 
shape how you view food moving 

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forward? 
When I got out into the real 

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world and I had my first 
executive chef jobs and I wanted

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to do my food, I realized I 
really didn't have my food. 

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Even to this day, I can't say I 
have my food. 

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I cook a certain way, but it's 
not necessarily my food. 

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It's stuff that my chefs have 
taught me that I've maybe 

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adjusted a little bit to my 
style or to current trends or 

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techniques, but it's the 
transfer of knowledge from the 

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previous generation. 
If you go back and you watch a 

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lot of old cooking shows, you'll
see a lot of really bad habits 

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in the kitchen from great chefs,
mind you. 

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You know, they got the big 
clunky tongs. 

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Their stations are messy, 
unfolded towels everywhere. 

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Their uniforms look tattered. 
And then they go through all 

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this work and then they put up a
dish that you're like, oh, holy 

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crap, that food doesn't look 
anything like what I would serve

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today. 
Food evolved very quickly and 

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what you're serving right now is
going to evolve with the future 

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might be served by robots. 
When you watch those old shows 

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and you see the look on their 
faces, they were doing the most 

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innovative food for their time. 
Go watch old Iron Chef and stuff

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that you look at like, well, 
that doesn't sound good or that 

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doesn't look good. 
Know that that was the hottest 

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food at the time. 
Go watch old Iron Chef America 

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and Chef Bobby Flay coming in 
blowing people's minds with 

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Chipotle Lays. 
No one had ever seen those 

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before. 
Now you take it for granted that

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you use Chipotle on everything. 
There's a restaurant chain. 

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You take that for granted. 
But back then they were 

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introducing things for the first
time. 

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You have culinary traditions 
that are passed on from chef to 

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chef. 
Making things a certain way. 

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Make a pasta like this, use 
double O flour. 

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No, make your gnocchi like this.
You got to bake the potatoes. 

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No, don't bake them. 
You got to boil them. 

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No, don't boil them. 
You got to steam them, right? 

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Everyone iterated a slightly 
different way, which by the way,

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I bake them. 
For the record, when I was a 

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chef, even just a few years ago,
I used to think to myself, I'm 

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putting out some of the best 
food I could put out and I'm 

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very proud of it. 
I was very intelligent to what 

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the trends were. 
I understood what was modern, 

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how to plate things, what the 
trendy ingredients were. 

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I was very happy with the food 
that I was putting out. 

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Now I've been retired for over 2
years. 

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Even though I've dabbled in some
dinners and some consulting and 

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stuff like that, sometimes now 
when I look at food, I'm like, 

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holy shit, Food has really 
evolved quickly and I see things

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00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,240
that I didn't really see two 
years ago. 

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In two years we've introduced 
new ingredients and new 

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00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:14,720
techniques. 
Blows my mind. 

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But then I see a lot of chefs, 
which I find super interesting 

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00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,200
because I see a lot of chefs 
preparing old classical 

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00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,520
technical food, slightly modern.
You know, they, they could 

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00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:27,480
incorporate some modern 
techniques, right? 

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00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:30,080
They might be using 
transglutaminase to stick the 

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00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,440
meat together instead of just 
using, you know, egg white 

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00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:35,480
powder or whatever we had to use
back then. 

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But all of a sudden, retro is 
cool, plated, modern. 

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00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:42,160
So retro techniques, modern 
plating, maybe more ethnic 

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ingredients. 
I think it's really cool to see 

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chefs pay homage to the 
classics, right? 

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00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:48,480
Classics reinvented. 
I'm all for that. 

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That's the kind of food I like. 
When I think about the food that

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I crave, I think about like, I 
want a good onion soup, I want a

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00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:58,000
lobster thermidor, I want a 
perfectly roasted chicken or a 

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00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:02,360
nicely cooked piece of fish, a 
sole or a skate wing with a 

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00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,120
bernoisette over it, some 
capers, some lemon. 

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That's what I crave. 
The classics, the simple. 

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And a lot of times chefs need to
focus on making food more simple

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00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,640
because you always are really 
quick to introduce your new 

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creativity and the new spin that
you want to do on things. 

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And you have an idea and there's
nothing wrong with that. 

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00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:20,800
But sometimes your ideas and 
your spin on things is fucking 

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00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:22,560
it up. 
It's not making it better. 

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00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:26,320
You're actually detracting from 
a really good dish by messing 

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00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,840
with it a little bit too much. 
Let the ingredients shine. 

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00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:31,520
Stick to your techniques 
perfectly. 

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00:14:31,520 --> 00:14:35,160
In season produce doesn't need 
much perfect tomatoes, don't 

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00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:37,520
need much. 
Good olive oil, good salt, maybe

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00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,640
some burrata cheese, some 
pickled onions, I don't know. 

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00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,480
Fresh basil, Good pesto. 
Then you want to put your spin 

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00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,680
on it by taking the burrata and 
breading it and putting in the 

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00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:51,600
deep fryer and serving it with a
comfy egg yolk fudge. 

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00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:54,040
It's like it was just fine 
before that. 

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00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:56,920
You didn't need to do all that. 
You didn't need comfy egg yolk 

329
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,840
fudge on the burrata with the 
tomatoes. 

330
00:14:59,840 --> 00:15:02,880
The tomatoes were enough in the 
good, olive oil perfect, right? 

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00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,160
So what can we do better as an 
industry one? 

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00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:09,200
If you have a chef in your life,
a mentor, a chef that you worked

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00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,560
under, even some of you chefs 
that have bad relationships with

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00:15:12,560 --> 00:15:15,680
your chefs, reach out to them. 
Thank them for what they gave 

335
00:15:15,680 --> 00:15:19,040
you because I'm sure there's 
some good with some of the bad. 

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00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:21,640
And if you have a good 
relationship with them, cherish 

337
00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:23,880
that relationship. 
Reach out to them, have a cup of

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00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:26,240
coffee with them. 
Sometimes chefs just want to 

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00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:27,680
chat with the younger 
generation. 

340
00:15:27,720 --> 00:15:30,440
We could not be where we are now
had it not been for the 

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00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,200
generation of chefs that came 
before us. 

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00:15:32,440 --> 00:15:36,960
So big respect to those chefs, 
but we also won't get to where 

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00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,600
we're going if it's not for the 
current generation of chefs that

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00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:40,520
are doing it. 
Anyway. 

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00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:43,000
You know what to do. 
You're watching on YouTube. 

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00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,960
Like and subscribe, listen on 
Spotify and make sure you leave 

347
00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:47,720
five stars, nothing less than 
five stars. 

348
00:15:47,920 --> 00:15:50,440
Go to chefspsa.com, get 
everything there. 

349
00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:54,000
Subscribe to the sub stack. 
We'll see you next week.