1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,320 This episode of the City Smack podcast is presented by X 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,640 Endurance. When you finish a hard workout, 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,160 whether it's a long run or a workout on the track or a big 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,760 lift session, the work isn't actually done. 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,200 We all know this. That's when recovery starts. 6 00:00:16,520 --> 00:00:19,160 It can get expensive to constantly pop into a smoothie 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,840 shop after a run. So one of the things that I've 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,680 been doing lately is using X Endurance protein, which is 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,960 designed specifically to help your body recover, rebuild and 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,880 get stronger after training. 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Check it all out at 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 xendurance.com. Code Sidious for 25% off your 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,760 first order. What's up everyone? 44 00:02:19,800 --> 00:02:21,920 You are listening to the CDs Mag podcast. 45 00:02:21,920 --> 00:02:24,560 I'm your host Chris Chavez, and every week we go beyond the 46 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:27,240 results to bring you conversations with the biggest 47 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,640 names on the track, the roads and behind the scenes. 48 00:02:29,840 --> 00:02:32,920 From world class athletes and coaches to innovators shaping 49 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:35,080 the sport. If it's happening on the track, 50 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:38,000 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 51 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:41,520 deep dives into the moments that define careers and the kind of 52 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,480 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 53 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,120 So let's get into it because we love track and field. 54 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,080 Before we dive into today's episode, a quick moment of 55 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,120 gratitude. The only reason this show keeps 56 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,080 humming is because you press play, you text it to your 57 00:02:57,080 --> 00:03:00,000 running buddies and you care about this sport just as much as 58 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,520 we do. That means everything to us. 59 00:03:02,840 --> 00:03:05,080 If the podcast has been part of your weekly routine, one of the 60 00:03:05,080 --> 00:03:07,920 simplest ways to support it is by leaving a five star View on 61 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,120 Apple podcast. It helps more people find the 62 00:03:10,120 --> 00:03:12,120 show and keeps us doing what we love. 63 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:14,120 And that's talking track with you. 64 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,040 We also love shouting out listeners who take the time to 65 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,120 leave those reviews. So here's one that made me 66 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:22,800 smile. Chris Chavez practices what he 67 00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,680 preaches. I've been a listener for a while 68 00:03:24,680 --> 00:03:26,440 now. Enjoy nerding out while I hear 69 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,160 Chris and Preet breakdown race performances and speculate on 70 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:31,840 future ones. Love the data-driven estimates, 71 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:34,000 but also the intuition of the host. 72 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,960 Imagine my surprise while I was doing my long run on the Central 73 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:40,360 Park Loop and I look up and I see Chris running toward me 74 00:03:40,640 --> 00:03:45,720 while his voice was in my ear. That one was from Sarah, Alaska. 75 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,560 OK, first of all, that was in fact, me. 76 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:51,760 Despite what my Strava has shown lately, I can't confirm. 77 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:53,840 I have been leaving the apartment and actually getting 78 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:56,720 out for runs a little less lately since I've been dealing 79 00:03:56,720 --> 00:04:00,120 with some injuries and it's been brutally cold here in New York. 80 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,280 But seriously, that review made my day. 81 00:04:03,320 --> 00:04:05,840 There's something wild about thinking that the timing of 82 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,720 everything lining up, that my voice might be in someone's 83 00:04:08,720 --> 00:04:11,440 headphones while they're unknowingly sharing miles in the 84 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,000 same park as me. Thanks for listening, Sarah. 85 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:16,440 Thanks for nerding out with us. Really appreciate you. 86 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:19,720 To everyone else listening, thank you. 87 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,079 And if you feel the same way, taking a minute to leave a five 88 00:04:22,079 --> 00:04:24,480 star review on Apple Podcast is the best way to support the 89 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:26,320 show. We read every single one, and 90 00:04:26,320 --> 00:04:31,960 they genuinely mean a lot to us. My guest for today's episode is 91 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,920 Turner Wiley. And if you're looking for one of 92 00:04:33,920 --> 00:04:36,520 the most relatable stories in American marathoning right now, 93 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,440 he might be it. Turner didn't come through the 94 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,600 sport the traditional way. No NCA titles, no buzz of ever 95 00:04:43,600 --> 00:04:46,240 really making a team. He was a Division 2 runner at 96 00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,480 Seattle Pacific who never even qualified for nationals. 97 00:04:49,760 --> 00:04:52,760 And usually that's the kind of athlete that most people assume 98 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,720 just fades out of the sport after college. 99 00:04:54,720 --> 00:04:57,760 But he did not. He did that thing where you just 100 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:01,320 keep showing up, kept building, kept believing that the marathon 101 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:03,960 might eventually unlock something bigger and you Fast 102 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:06,800 forward a couple years. He's now a 2O9 marathoner, the 103 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:09,880 runner up at last December's Marathon Project, and a Brooke 104 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:13,600 sponsored athlete heading into Boston, all while working a full 105 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,320 time job at Seattle Children's Hospital and raising a newborn 106 00:05:17,320 --> 00:05:19,320 at home. Turner's the guy waking up at 107 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:21,440 5:00 AM to get his first run in before work. 108 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:26,720 He's logging between 130 and 140 miles, mostly solo, pushing a 109 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,800 stroller on his second run of the day and stacking years of 110 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,160 consistency. Just an unflashy training until 111 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:35,440 it finally clicked. In this conversation, we talk 112 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:38,720 about that slow burn of development, from blowing up in 113 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:42,480 his debut marathon in Paris, grinding through the club system 114 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:45,600 in Seattle, to breaking through with a two O 9. 115 00:05:45,720 --> 00:05:48,160 At the marathon project. We get into what it looks like 116 00:05:48,160 --> 00:05:51,080 to chase elite performance without making running your 117 00:05:51,080 --> 00:05:54,840 entire identity, how fatherhood has reshaped his perspective, 118 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:59,000 and why he genuinely believes that his best racing days might 119 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,240 still be ahead of him. The marathon doesn't care where 120 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:05,240 you started, only how long you're willing to keep going. 121 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,080 This is the next in a series of interviews that we're doing with 122 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,280 Brooks Marathoners in the lead up to the Boston Marathon. 123 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,160 Stay tuned as we announce our schedule of events with Brooks 124 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,280 out of the Hyperion House. We'll have a Shakeout Run on 125 00:06:16,280 --> 00:06:19,120 Saturday morning at 8:00 AM if you want to put that on your 126 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:22,280 calendar, followed by a live chat with Jess McClain and more. 127 00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:25,160 Without further ado, here is Turner Wiley. 128 00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:38,680 All right, now I'm happy to welcome on Turner Wiley to the 129 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:44,040 Sidious Mag podcast in the lead up to the Boston Marathon. 130 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:49,080 Fresh off of 1/2 marathon PB at the NYC Half and then a big 131 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,560 marathon personal best back in December at the Marathon 132 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:54,880 Project. Turner How are things going in 133 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:56,440 the lead up to the Boston Marathon? 134 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,400 Yeah, things are going smooth. You know, it's not been, I don't 135 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:04,040 know, one of my more flashy marathon build UPS just coming 136 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,120 off the marathon project. Like, you know, I've got a 137 00:07:07,120 --> 00:07:09,840 little one at home fresh off with the wife. 138 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,760 And so it's been a little bit of unknown territory training with 139 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:16,640 five month old and all that fun stuff. 140 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,600 But the, the training has been going well. 141 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:23,520 I mean, I'm not one to usually race in the middle of a marathon 142 00:07:23,520 --> 00:07:26,000 block, but the coach and I wanted to, you know, let's 143 00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:28,600 change things up a little. And New York was a fantastic 144 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,080 course to kind of like a good fitness check before Boston. 145 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:36,160 And yeah, it was a lot of fun. And yeah, I mean, training's 146 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:38,920 going well. I mean, there's been no crazy 147 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:41,280 flashy workouts, but there's also, it's just been good 148 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,640 consistent training. And you know, I'm, I feel like 149 00:07:43,640 --> 00:07:46,640 that's half the battle with the marathon is just consistency. 150 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:50,920 So you're on paternity leave right now from like your full 151 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:53,440 time job. But I guess like, walk me 152 00:07:53,440 --> 00:07:56,640 through what's a week in your life look like right now when it 153 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:58,640 comes to training? What time does that alarm go 154 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,840 off? And then from there, I guess, 155 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,480 where are you squeezing in these miles? 156 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:04,880 Yeah. Alarm goes off at about 5:00 AM, 157 00:08:05,480 --> 00:08:07,520 OK. And then I try to be out the 158 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:11,960 door around 5:50. And I'm usually getting my 159 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,280 longer run done with in the morning just so I can spend more 160 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,640 time with the wife and kiddo when my wife gets home from 161 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,360 work. And so I'm getting anywhere from 162 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:24,200 11:50 in the morning. And then now that the kiddo is 163 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:28,000 older than six months, he gets the lucky privilege to go in the 164 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:33,000 stroller for the second run. And so I, I'll take him on, you 165 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,960 know, during the peak mileage weeks, I've dragged him anywhere 166 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:39,120 from 8 to 12 miles in the stroller. 167 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:43,919 And I, I find anywhere after 10 miles, he starts to, it's, it's 168 00:08:43,919 --> 00:08:46,920 a little too much time in the stroller for him, but he's a 169 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:49,840 good, he's a good companion for that second double. 170 00:08:49,840 --> 00:08:54,320 And then, you know, Wednesdays, I, I'm kind of that traditional 171 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:58,200 weekly mileage guy, like Wednesday workout, Saturday 172 00:08:58,200 --> 00:09:01,800 workout, Sunday long run. And then, you know, the, the 173 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:04,720 weekends are kind of the bulk long tempo on the Saturday and 174 00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,520 then a good, good classic long marathon long run on Sundays. 175 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:13,720 For the most part, I guess this has been your story for a bit 176 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:17,720 that a lot of these hard sessions and and are solo, 177 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,600 right? Yeah, I mean, I'm, I'm lucky 178 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,320 enough I've got a few friends out here and I can drag them on 179 00:09:24,320 --> 00:09:27,760 some easy runs, which is great because that helps get, you 180 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,360 know, the chunk of the mileage done with. 181 00:09:29,880 --> 00:09:32,680 But yeah, I mean, workouts are primarily solo. 182 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,400 On the occasion I can get someone to pace me for like a 183 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:39,240 little bit. But really like, I don't know. 184 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,480 For example, this last weekend we had our last long tempo and 185 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,680 it was kind of a traditional 20 mile hard long tempo and 1st 10 186 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,760 super smooth, controlled. And then second ten. 187 00:09:51,560 --> 00:09:56,520 I live right outside Seattle and around our lake, the backside of 188 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,680 the lake has three really good hills, kind of similar to the 189 00:09:59,680 --> 00:10:02,840 Newton Hills. And so we do the last 10 coming 190 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:04,920 back on that, and that's where we kind of pick it up. 191 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,880 But yeah, no, you're right. Yeah. 192 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,400 The the pretty much all my workouts are so low, I can 193 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:12,560 sometimes drag people on a bike to help me out. 194 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:16,600 But for the bulk of it, yeah, just solo out right outside of 195 00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:19,920 Seattle solo by myself. I want to familiarize our 196 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:23,960 audience a bit more with a bit of your background because it's 197 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:29,040 essentially just sort of what a lot of people who don't have the 198 00:10:29,040 --> 00:10:33,040 flashy NCAA titles and like this, you know, natural sort of 199 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:35,280 progression to become a professional runner. 200 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,800 Like it's a very untraditional sort of path for you where you 201 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,360 ran division two at Seattle Pacific, never qualified for 202 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,600 nationals when you graduated, where did you see sort of like 203 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,520 your running career going? And I guess like, why continue 204 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,160 going? Why continue going is I love 205 00:10:52,160 --> 00:10:54,440 running just in general. And so I was like, I'm never 206 00:10:54,440 --> 00:10:57,200 going to hang it up, you know, even when I'm done professional 207 00:10:57,200 --> 00:10:59,480 running, you know, I'll, I'll always be out there. 208 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:04,040 I'll I'll be the 90 year old with two broken knees still out 209 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,080 there. But yeah, I mean, so I graduated 210 00:11:07,080 --> 00:11:10,200 from Seattle Pacific and I, I stayed in Seattle. 211 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,240 I pretty much got a job right right out of college at Seattle 212 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:15,840 Children's Hospital and started running for the local club out 213 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:20,120 here, Club Northwest, and just kind of continued. 214 00:11:20,120 --> 00:11:24,040 I, I always knew the marathon would be where I kind of fell. 215 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:29,960 I mean, in college, you know, by no means was I, I don't want to 216 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:31,680 say good, but like, I don't know. 217 00:11:31,680 --> 00:11:34,920 I mean, I never qualified for nationals or anything like that. 218 00:11:34,920 --> 00:11:37,920 Like I was just a good conference runner really was it. 219 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:42,960 But my coach would always joke I was the fastest 10K guy he 220 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,920 coached who couldn't break four in the 15 because I could run 221 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:50,960 like 4 O five in the 15, but yet I could run like 30-40 in the 222 00:11:50,960 --> 00:11:52,640 10K. And he's like, this doesn't make 223 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:56,080 sense to me. And so that I that that was 224 00:11:56,080 --> 00:11:58,480 always an indicator. Like, OK, like the, the longer 225 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:01,320 stuff has always soothing me. You know, I enjoyed cross 226 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,840 country, all that fun stuff. And yeah, I mean, pretty much 227 00:12:03,840 --> 00:12:06,960 right out of college just was like, you know what, like, screw 228 00:12:06,960 --> 00:12:09,640 it, Let's let's let's try this marathon thing out. 229 00:12:09,640 --> 00:12:14,280 And yeah, I took a swing at the marathon, probably did it the 230 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,240 wrong way in every way whatsoever. 231 00:12:18,280 --> 00:12:21,640 My family, we had a trip over in Europe and I was like, oh, the 232 00:12:21,640 --> 00:12:23,520 Paris Marathon would be so cool to do. 233 00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:26,600 Like, let's just go do that. And like, of course I'm naive 234 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,440 enough to think like, oh, I'll just go get the OTQ right off 235 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:30,480 the bat. First one. 236 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:34,440 We'll be good to go. And this is when it was 2/18, 237 00:12:34,440 --> 00:12:36,280 right? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 238 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:39,640 Back when it was 218 and so I was like, yeah, international 239 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:43,720 travel easy, whatever. It won't be Well, it'll be fine. 240 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,880 And like, granted, I like I was fit enough to do it, but oh, it 241 00:12:48,880 --> 00:12:52,080 went horrible. I like, I led the first K like 242 00:12:52,840 --> 00:12:56,360 someone got up and watched and like took a video and like, sure 243 00:12:56,360 --> 00:13:00,720 enough, there's this like naive kid in an orange singlet just 244 00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,480 sprinting the first kilometer of the Paris Marathon. 245 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,560 And Needless to say, I did not lead much longer than the K. 246 00:13:07,560 --> 00:13:12,840 And the only, I, I think the only reason I finished was I 247 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:16,240 don't speak a lick of French. And my parents were there and I 248 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:18,720 was like, I'm not going to be able to find him if I drop out. 249 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,520 Like I'm like, I just got to get to the finish. 250 00:13:21,520 --> 00:13:25,480 And so I was just slugging along some six 30's the last few 251 00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,200 miles, but I finished, yeah. What was what was the time there 252 00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,080 I. Think it was 231. 253 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:33,640 OK, Yeah. Yeah, the first half was about 254 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,680 67, so. This is why I couldn't find it 255 00:13:36,680 --> 00:13:39,520 like when it, when it came to just looking at your World 256 00:13:39,520 --> 00:13:42,280 Athletics profile, like these databases, I was like, wait, no, 257 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,240 I'm sure he's been from Paris before, but I can't. 258 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,440 Like the first one I think I see is 2019. 259 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:48,680 I'm like, there's one before that. 260 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:50,400 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Paris. 261 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:53,040 Probably because I, I don't know if I was even signed up through 262 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,600 USATF at that time. I mean, I'm sure I was, but 263 00:13:56,600 --> 00:14:00,200 yeah, yeah. No, Paris I I do claim Paris as 264 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:03,800 my first, so yeah. So then from there, you didn't 265 00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,680 want to just like give it up. What then, I guess gets into 266 00:14:07,680 --> 00:14:09,480 you, I guess. Was OTQ still sort of on the 267 00:14:09,480 --> 00:14:12,560 mind by the time we roll around to 2019? 268 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:15,320 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I wanted to give the 269 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,720 marathon one more shot. Just realizing, you know, this 270 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,640 was a weird, a weird race and it was I, I will say it was a 271 00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,520 really fun experience and I learned a ton. 272 00:14:24,600 --> 00:14:26,680 I mean, you probably learn more from your failures and your 273 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:30,440 successes And so learned a ton, learned about fueling and 274 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,960 learned about pacing everything. So I said, all right, let's you 275 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:35,440 know, let's do this one more time. 276 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,240 You also have connections to Atlanta, right? 277 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,040 Like and so that was part of the reason why there was this chase. 278 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:46,600 Yeah, I, I, I was actually born in Atlanta and my entire dad's 279 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:48,040 side of the family lives in Atlanta. 280 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,160 They'd never seen me race. And I was like, this would be so 281 00:14:51,160 --> 00:14:52,920 cool. First Olympic Trials. 282 00:14:53,240 --> 00:14:55,600 I'm from Atlanta. My entire dad's side of the 283 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,440 family's in Atlanta. A lot of them are on the East 284 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,920 Coast. Like, like, like eventually for 285 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:03,240 the trials, when I did qualify, they all came. 286 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:05,360 It was really, really cool and really special. 287 00:15:06,480 --> 00:15:09,120 And so I was like, no, I, I really want to give this another 288 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:10,440 shot. Like, that was my draw. 289 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:14,040 I was like, maybe not Even so much like the Olympic trials, 290 00:15:14,040 --> 00:15:15,880 but just like being able to do that in Atlanta. 291 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:18,480 Like I was born there. My parents, like that's where I 292 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:21,400 live for the first, well, there for the first year of my life. 293 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:23,360 But it it, I don't know, still, still cool. 294 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:26,640 And that's what I claimed on like that whole bio thing. 295 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:28,080 I was like, Oh yeah, born in Atlanta. 296 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,560 I'm like, I've lived in Seattle my whole life. 297 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,680 But you know, the club had a bunch of guys going for Chicago 298 00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:38,200 and we were able to get in that like American Development 299 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:40,320 Program. And so we had that, you know, 300 00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:43,320 right next pretty much at the start, a little bit better than 301 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:45,800 the whole wave stuff. You still have to carry your 302 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,240 gels and things like that. But you know, we worked through 303 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,520 that and yeah, it's just a group of us just training every day. 304 00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:55,080 I mean, it's actually where I met one of my best friends and 305 00:15:55,480 --> 00:15:57,600 we literally trained side by side. 306 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,280 And in Chicago we literally finished like 3 seconds apart, 307 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:05,480 which was wild. And he actually just qualified 308 00:16:05,480 --> 00:16:08,240 again at McCurdy for the next. Trials. 309 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:10,840 That's awesome. You know, we did it as a group 310 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,040 and it worked. Yeah. 311 00:16:13,040 --> 00:16:16,120 And that's where I kind of like, OK, like this is what it should 312 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:18,960 feel like. Not, you know, I shouldn't be 313 00:16:18,960 --> 00:16:21,000 miserable at mile 5. So. 314 00:16:21,520 --> 00:16:25,440 Can you describe, I guess, what the team culture is like for 315 00:16:25,720 --> 00:16:29,280 Club Northwest and you know, the club scene out in the Pacific 316 00:16:29,280 --> 00:16:32,000 Northwest? Yeah, it's a big club. 317 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,120 It's, you know, it's been, it's one of the longest standing 318 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,360 clubs in the US. They've got an amazing presence. 319 00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:41,600 It's a little hard now because I've, I've been removed from it 320 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:43,760 for a little bit. I'm I'm still a part of them, 321 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:47,440 but living right outside of Seattle and just the level of 322 00:16:47,440 --> 00:16:50,600 workouts I do it, it's it's hard for me to commute into Seattle 323 00:16:50,600 --> 00:16:53,360 and work out with them. But at least, I mean, back when 324 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:56,160 I was training there with them, like it was just such a team. 325 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,240 It felt like a college team, like everyone supporting each 326 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,200 other. I mean, you'd show up to the 327 00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:04,720 Wednesday night workouts at the local high school track and just 328 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:07,720 hundreds of people and like Even so much. 329 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,000 So now they have to have two separate times because there's 330 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,960 so many people coming and then staying with the weekends. 331 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,400 Like it was, it was just a really good group that was 332 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:21,960 holding each other accountable. And you know, they offered some 333 00:17:21,960 --> 00:17:25,200 support for travel and things like that, which was so helpful, 334 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,920 especially like back then being an unsponsored guy and like, you 335 00:17:28,920 --> 00:17:30,560 know, having to pay for everything yourself. 336 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,880 Like it's not cheap to travel to all these races. 337 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:37,160 And you know, whether you're buying gels, bottles, airfare, 338 00:17:37,160 --> 00:17:41,640 hotel, like they're just a really, really supportive group. 339 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:46,880 And it was cool with the trials. We I think we had four or five 340 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,600 guys who qualified for the 2020 trials. 341 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:51,160 And then we had I think three women. 342 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:54,480 And so we I think we had eight from our group that qualified. 343 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:56,080 And it was just a really special moment. 344 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,320 You know, there we are supported by Brooks and they help provide 345 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:04,320 like some gear stuff and like that's what our jerseys are. 346 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:07,720 And so it's cool if like Brooks had us out and stuff like that. 347 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:09,880 But yeah, it, it's, it's just a really supportive group. 348 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,320 It feels like a college, almost like, yeah, it's just a bunch of 349 00:18:13,320 --> 00:18:16,080 people just running and loving it and pushing. 350 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:20,640 I think back to I mean, Atlanta feels like a long time ago now, 351 00:18:20,640 --> 00:18:24,360 but it it actually wasn't. But we, that was I think one of 352 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:27,440 the first iterations of like the Hyperion house activations that 353 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:32,480 they did at the marathon trials or just at any sort of like 354 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:38,280 major marathon pop up. And I just remember the at that 355 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:41,560 point they may have been still on the Hyperion Elite one or 356 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:42,800 two. Is that what you raced in? 357 00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:46,600 I think when it came to Atlanta, Yeah, very different than what 358 00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,000 you guys got. Now, yes, very, very different. 359 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:52,320 Yeah. No, I'm, I'm very thankful for 360 00:18:52,560 --> 00:18:54,680 the improvements they've made with the shoes. 361 00:18:54,680 --> 00:18:57,480 Yeah. What was your approach to 362 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,160 Atlanta? We're all as runners competitive 363 00:19:00,160 --> 00:19:04,000 with ourselves and at the same time it's like the trials can 364 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:08,000 sometimes be this big race that people work towards and then use 365 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,000 it as a sort of like a big victory lap. 366 00:19:10,240 --> 00:19:11,360 How did you approach it? A. 367 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:14,640 Little bit of both. I felt really fit going into 368 00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:17,880 Atlanta. I mean we did a club northwest 369 00:19:17,880 --> 00:19:23,880 like our the head coach went out and he wheeled out a half 370 00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,240 marathon. And so it was like, I mean, it 371 00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,280 was official in terms of the distance, not official in any 372 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,080 terms of like a race. And we did a half marathon time 373 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:35,480 trial. And I mean, I soloed a 6413 by 374 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:36,280 myself. Wow. 375 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:38,400 And I was like, man, I feel really fit. 376 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:42,200 And then Atlanta just went horribly wrong. 377 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:43,560 And I was like, yeah, let's just. 378 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:45,800 So windy. It was so windy. 379 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,360 I was not ready for the hills. I didn't realize it was going to 380 00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:52,240 be like either like gradual up or gradual down the entire time. 381 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:56,120 And yeah, so windy and cold, but I wanted to go in and I wanted 382 00:19:56,120 --> 00:19:59,560 to PR and I wanted to run. Well, like, you know, but I 383 00:19:59,560 --> 00:20:02,280 realized pretty quickly I was like, you know, let's just enjoy 384 00:20:02,280 --> 00:20:03,600 this. Like, let's just soak in the 385 00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,880 atmosphere. This is such a cool experience. 386 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,360 Like, it's never guaranteed that you're going to be back, like, 387 00:20:09,360 --> 00:20:11,640 you know. And so yeah, I totally enjoyed 388 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:12,800 it. I remember I was talking to my 389 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:15,840 mom and my wife and they were able to get kind of on that 390 00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:20,120 finishing stretch somehow. And I know my mom was really 391 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,840 worried because she's like, oh, he's really far off his time. 392 00:20:22,840 --> 00:20:24,800 Like, oh, he's going to be so upset. 393 00:20:24,800 --> 00:20:27,280 And sure enough, like, I came in with, like, the biggest smile, 394 00:20:27,280 --> 00:20:30,200 just enjoying it. And like, I could tell she was 395 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,720 really, like, afterwards, she was like, I was so relieved when 396 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,760 you're, like, smiling. I was like, oh, yeah. 397 00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:36,400 I was just enjoying it. Like, it's such a cool 398 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:40,120 experience. Like, you know, being in Atlanta 399 00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:43,600 and just racing my first trials and enjoying the moment. 400 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:46,120 Yeah. This episode of the City Smack 401 00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:51,720 podcast is supported by Wahoo. You've got 26.2 miles of work. 402 00:20:52,080 --> 00:20:55,000 Heartbreak Hill. The Newton Hills, that long 403 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:58,440 grinding stretch from mile 16 to 20. 404 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:01,840 You've studied the course. You've circled the date on the 405 00:21:01,840 --> 00:21:03,880 calendar. You've sacrificed the early 406 00:21:03,880 --> 00:21:07,160 mornings for long runs. You've sacrificed your social 407 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,400 plans. You've put in the work. 408 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,960 But there's a difference between knowing a course and knowing a 409 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:16,320 course. Have you felt the gradient shift 410 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:19,280 under your feet? Have you practice holding your 411 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:21,160 pace when the hill doesn't care about your goal time? 412 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,520 With the Wahoo Kicker Run, you can simulate the exact Boston or 413 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:28,640 London Marathon course right in your own home. 414 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,800 Upload the GPX file into the Wahoo app and the Kicker Runs 415 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,480 Automatic grade control. Adjust your incline in real 416 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,400 time, mile by mile, climb by climb, descent by descent, 417 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,760 exactly as it would feel when it matters most. 418 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:44,480 That's race day. 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Check it out today at 440 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:53,000 wahoofitness.com and use Code City as a check out for that 441 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,160 free Kicker Headwind Smart Fan. Many thanks to Wahoo for coming 442 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,040 back on as a sponsor of the City of Smack Podcast. 443 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,880 Where did you want to take your marathon in career from there? 444 00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:11,640 I wanted to keep going. I don't know, You know, I mean, 445 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:14,600 I'd only run. I think it's like 21700. 446 00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:17,600 I don't know if people really thought I'd continue after the 447 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:19,160 trials. They're like, OK, he got the 448 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:21,000 trials out of the way. That was his big moment. 449 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:23,480 Like, all right, now he's going to get back to real life. 450 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,960 But yeah, I I just kind of kept going. 451 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:28,400 I mean, I knew I had more in the tank. 452 00:23:29,400 --> 00:23:33,640 I don't know if I had a real thought for where this would go 453 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,280 and how it would look, but I was like, oh, let's just keep going. 454 00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:37,960 Let's keep running, let's keep improving. 455 00:23:37,960 --> 00:23:42,640 And I think I ran a couple like, track races just for fun and, 456 00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:45,280 you know, kept that going. You know, I mean, Seattle's got 457 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:48,600 such a fun like, you know, we've got the UW Dempsey and they're 458 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:52,600 great about letting in like local elite runners and things 459 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,440 like that. And then, you know, Portland 460 00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,960 with the Portland Track Festival. 461 00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:58,680 And then, yeah, I'm trying to think what my next marathon was 462 00:23:58,680 --> 00:24:00,120 after that. It was probably. 463 00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:03,400 Is it Chicago 2021? Yeah, I think it, Yeah. 464 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,440 Yes, it was. It was crazy hot. 465 00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:12,320 And it was like me and me and my coach, he is a fantastic guy. 466 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,800 His name's Mike Sanko, and I've been with him ever since the 467 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:20,960 2020 trials after. And he he was good enough and he 468 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,920 got an elite bib in Chicago. And he somehow convinced Chicago 469 00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,560 to give me an elite bib. And I was like, sweet, let's do 470 00:24:27,560 --> 00:24:30,320 it. And so I crashed with him in the 471 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,360 hotel room that he was given. And I was like, heck yeah, like, 472 00:24:34,360 --> 00:24:36,200 let's do this. Like I, I have an elite bib in 473 00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:37,320 Chicago. This is awesome. 474 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:42,520 And sure enough, it was like 74 at the start, but I ran a small 475 00:24:42,520 --> 00:24:45,920 personal best and that's where I was kind of like, OK, like I've 476 00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:49,160 definitely got more in the tank. And so, yeah, I mean, then then 477 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,160 we went to grandma's and that's where I knocked like, gosh, I 478 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,640 think 3 or 4 minutes off my best and. 479 00:24:54,720 --> 00:24:57,240 Yeah. 213, 49th PL. Yeah. 480 00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,320 Yeah, and Grandma's was amazing. That was such a fun race. 481 00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,560 I think that's where really where things started clicking 482 00:25:03,560 --> 00:25:06,200 for me. You know, it was a negative 483 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,880 split, which was the first time I'd ever done that in a 484 00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,160 marathon. And we just had a good group and 485 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,040 it was fun. And yeah, I mean, I didn't know. 486 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,320 I mean, I knew I was fit, but I was pretty excited to run 213 487 00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:20,440 and I was like, Dang, OK, there we go. 488 00:25:20,880 --> 00:25:23,160 And then? How fun was that year? 489 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,160 Cuz I'm looking at it. You had a mile PB 412 then after 490 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:32,880 that 5 KPB 1355. You also ran 1354 at the Dempsey 491 00:25:33,280 --> 00:25:36,920 2840 at the time as well at Peyton Jordan. 492 00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:41,080 So like PB is across the board. Yeah, I didn't know I ran a 493 00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,080 mile. Which is hilarious because 494 00:25:43,360 --> 00:25:44,600 that's pretty funny if that's pop. 495 00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:48,240 I'd I don't remember running a mile but hey I will take a 412. 496 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,960 Is that 412 at the Bill Rowe All Comers Track and Field series at 497 00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:58,760 Shoreline in Shoreline, WA on June 28th, 2022 or did someone 498 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,200 register as you? Someone might have registered as 499 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:02,880 me because I don't remember. They ran pretty well. 500 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:06,760 I'll take it, you know, yeah, I mean, I I think I could run like 501 00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:08,920 a four O 5. I'm not breaking 4, that's for 502 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,600 sure. But yeah, but yeah, no, it was a 503 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:15,200 super fun year because I was like, you know, let's go get 504 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,240 some Pbes. And so, you know, I went down to 505 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,560 Oregon and ran just a 5K right before Peyton Jordan because I 506 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,600 knew that was going to be kind of our target track race. 507 00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:26,440 I think it was like off 3 weeks of training. 508 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,480 I, you know, I ran 1350 something and I was like, OK, 509 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,200 sweet. Like I, I think that was like my 510 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,040 second time breaking 14. I was like, OK, like I feel in 511 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:36,280 really good shape. And then yeah, Peyton Jordan was 512 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:38,840 a total blast. I mean, I never raced at 513 00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,200 Stanford before. I mean, I was AD two guy who 514 00:26:42,280 --> 00:26:44,920 could barely break 31, like they're not going to let me in. 515 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:47,080 So yeah, Peyton Jordan was a lot of fun. 516 00:26:47,080 --> 00:26:48,320 Yeah. Running 2840. 517 00:26:48,320 --> 00:26:51,840 And I went down with one of my with one of my buddies and he 518 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,400 ran the 5K there and just a total blast. 519 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:58,240 Like being in that atmosphere. Latest track race I'd ever 520 00:26:58,240 --> 00:27:00,640 raced, You know, it was like 10:30 PM, yeah. 521 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,280 Hi, I'm a proponent though for bringing back I guess the allure 522 00:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,960 and aura to to Stanford. I know like the 10 accomplishes 523 00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,960 what it does like out in San Juan Capistrano, but those 524 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,440 Stanford meets were were classic. 525 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:18,280 No, they really were. I mean, I gosh, I remember being 526 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,600 in college, like watching them and just being like, this is 527 00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,680 like, this is the coolest thing. Like it's just such a good 528 00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:25,040 atmosphere. And then sure enough, like 529 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:28,760 racing there, I was like, man, OK, I definitely see what this 530 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:31,120 is about. Like perfect weather, such a 531 00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,040 cool environment with like the stadium there, the trees, just 532 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:39,760 that Stanford campus and I'd I I agree they they definitely need 533 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,200 to start bringing them back. So 2023, you know, you race 534 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,880 Boston, that's your first, First Boston 213 there and then. 535 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:49,560 Yeah. What did you what did you make 536 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:51,320 of the course? It was a blast. 537 00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,280 Loved Boston. Yeah, I've I've every Boston 538 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,320 I've done has been amazing, which I guess is only. 539 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,920 This will be #3 for you, right? Yeah, this will be the third 540 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:03,800 time every Boston's been unique because going into the first one 541 00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:07,520 I had a little bit of an Achilles flare, and so every 542 00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:09,120 Boston I've had some type of issue. 543 00:28:09,120 --> 00:28:12,680 So this one is actually the best so far, knock on wood. 544 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:17,400 But man, the course was awesome. You know, I didn't, people 545 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,360 always say, you know, the first half is so fast. 546 00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:21,080 The first half is fast. Like be careful. 547 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:24,680 I didn't really realize that until like, man, you, you start 548 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,200 and it's just straight down to that first K. 549 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:31,600 I'm like, wow, OK. And yeah, I mean, the crowds, 550 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:34,120 like, I mean, the majors are awesome. 551 00:28:34,120 --> 00:28:37,440 Like Chicago is great. Like, you know, like I, I 552 00:28:37,440 --> 00:28:40,640 remember the last couple miles of Chicago just, you know, lying 553 00:28:40,640 --> 00:28:45,240 deep on both sides going down, you know, but man, Boston's just 554 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:48,760 wild because like, I mean, you've got people packing the 555 00:28:48,760 --> 00:28:53,200 streets and you're like 2 miles in and you're like, you're not 556 00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:55,880 getting to the finish. Like you're truly out here. 557 00:28:56,240 --> 00:28:58,560 Like you're going to see the 1st 2 miles of the race and you're 558 00:28:58,560 --> 00:29:01,960 just screaming your heads off. And it like, man, what a, like, 559 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:04,920 what a like just an electric atmosphere. 560 00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,240 And then like, I mean, going up the Newton Hills, like, yeah, 561 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:10,080 total miserable going up the hills. 562 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:13,520 But it's like, man, just like people screaming and like, 563 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:16,280 you'll get the occasional people like running on the side of the 564 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:18,240 road. I'm like, man, this is such a 565 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,280 cool. And it just, I mean, yeah, what 566 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:22,400 an experience. Yeah. 567 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,040 And I, I, I loved it that first Boston, I was like, I'm 568 00:29:25,040 --> 00:29:28,040 definitely going to come back. I was like, this is, this is 569 00:29:28,040 --> 00:29:31,080 like when they say Boston is like the biggest marathon, like, 570 00:29:31,520 --> 00:29:33,960 OK, I I get it. Yeah. 571 00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:35,840 That was the Kipchoki year too, right? 572 00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,880 It was, yeah, Yeah. And so we got, we got dragged 573 00:29:38,880 --> 00:29:41,680 out pretty quick, yeah. And I'm looking at the results 574 00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,960 right now and JP was right at right in front of you, very 575 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:47,840 similar to the sort of the Marathon project. 576 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:52,000 Yeah, it's funny. Yeah, me and JP have a funny. 577 00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,000 We're good friends. And even before I was with 578 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,880 Brooks, we, we, we, we always kind of choked with each other. 579 00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:02,200 Like for a while we did every single marathon. 580 00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,800 We always did the same one and we always finished either I was 581 00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:08,920 like a few minutes, like seconds ahead of him or vice versa. 582 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:13,760 And there's, there's always a photo of us just like together 583 00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:18,040 at every marathon we do. And so this, this will be weird. 584 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,840 This is the first one I'm doing where J PS not gonna be there. 585 00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,960 And then I'm looking at this just record of that season, and 586 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:29,880 then you go to Chile and you run the Pan American Games there, 587 00:30:30,040 --> 00:30:32,160 9th place. But then when I clicked into 588 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:34,600 this sort of result, it was only 14 people in this marathon. 589 00:30:34,840 --> 00:30:36,480 Oh, it was wild. Yeah. 590 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:37,800 So. Yeah, I want to hear about this. 591 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,080 One yeah, so I was supposed to do actually the McCurdy 592 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:45,040 marathon, but my agent has said hey, like there's a chance 593 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:46,920 you'll you'll get into the Pan American game. 594 00:30:46,920 --> 00:30:49,760 So I was like, oh, sweet. Like I'll 100% do that. 595 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,920 Like I don't care how much time I need like whatever. 596 00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,240 And it's a weird selection because I think I got like a 597 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,600 message like like 5:00 AM being like, hey, the spot shares, do 598 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,360 you want it? You have two hours to respond. 599 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:04,640 I was like, OK, like, yeah, I'll take it. 600 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:07,880 Like I was up ready to go. You have to be training for it 601 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,280 because like, it was in October and I don't think I found out 602 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:13,160 till like mid-september. And so like, we're kind of 603 00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:15,040 planning on it. We kind of knew. 604 00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:17,080 My agent heard through the Grapevine. 605 00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,080 He was like, you know, here's the guys, like they're going to 606 00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:21,080 do fall marathons. Like, there's no prize money 607 00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:24,120 with the Pan Ams. It's not a big major. 608 00:31:24,120 --> 00:31:25,920 It's not a big world championship. 609 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:27,640 He's like, you'll probably get in. 610 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,000 I was like, OK, cool. And so, yeah, I got in. 611 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,320 I was like, this is amazing. Like first international team. 612 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,480 I was like, this is awesome. Training was going great. 613 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:37,120 I was like the fittest I'd ever been. 614 00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,840 I was just ripping tempos. I had heard the course was fast 615 00:31:41,840 --> 00:31:43,400 and I was like, OK, like, this is awesome. 616 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,040 Like this could be a really big moment. 617 00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:50,320 What a cool experience flying down there, going to South 618 00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:53,160 America. It was just a wild, wild travel 619 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:57,360 because it was what I flew from Seattle to Atlanta and then a 620 00:31:57,360 --> 00:32:00,280 red eye from Atlanta down to Santiago. 621 00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:05,240 And it was, yeah, wild travel. Like I didn't know what time it 622 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,480 was because the time zone's the same as Atlanta. 623 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 And so I was like, you're taking this 9 hour flight and I'm just 624 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,440 like, this is nuts. What a cool experience being 625 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:18,760 like an in an athlete village, the dining, food, like 626 00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:21,200 everything was like, I mean, it was, I'm, I'm sure it was like 627 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:24,320 probably a very pared down version of like the Olympics. 628 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:27,200 And it was just like I just soaked it in. 629 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:30,000 Like, I mean, I, I wanted to compete and I wanted to try to 630 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:33,920 meddle. That went away pretty quick 631 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,520 because I ended up getting COVID while I was down there. 632 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:38,000 Oh, wow. Geez. 633 00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:40,320 Yeah. Literally like 2 days after 634 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:43,160 getting down there. I thought it was allergies and I 635 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:44,520 was like, oh, my throat feels a little weird. 636 00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,240 And so I went to the team dock and they gave me some allergy 637 00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,520 meds and then sure enough, like the next day, like 2 days out 638 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:55,360 from the race, I'm just like sweating buckets at night. 639 00:32:55,400 --> 00:32:58,720 And I'm like, Oh no, I was like, I feel horrible. 640 00:32:58,720 --> 00:33:02,880 I like, I, I FaceTime my parents because they're both nurse 641 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:04,320 practitioners. And I was like telling them 642 00:33:04,320 --> 00:33:06,560 they're like, oh, you definitely are, like you have the flu or 643 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,840 something. And I was like, OK, well, let's 644 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:11,440 just ignore it. And so, you know, I, I still 645 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:12,600 jogged. I felt horrid. 646 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,480 I was like, just like laying in the bathtub in the in, in the 647 00:33:16,480 --> 00:33:19,200 rooms, just like with hot water going over me. 648 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,920 I was like, I feel so miserable because. 649 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:24,160 Since October 2023. We're not. 650 00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,680 No one's testing that often for COVID at this point, yeah. 651 00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,720 Yeah, yeah. They, they weren't testing. 652 00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,960 You know, there had been muddles going around the athlete village 653 00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:36,640 that there was some COVID going around. 654 00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,200 And so people were being careful, but I had no reason to 655 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:43,360 think it was COVID. I thought it was just like a 656 00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,720 cold or a flu. And I remember getting on the 657 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:49,520 bus that morning to the start and my garment was telling me 658 00:33:49,520 --> 00:33:51,680 like, my, my resting heart rate was like 120. 659 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,600 And I was like, oh, no, I was like, this is not good. 660 00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,280 I was like, this is going to go really bad. 661 00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:00,600 I was like, but let's just see what happens. 662 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,840 And so, and like, I don't speak Spanish either. 663 00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,440 And like, I was the only, I think I was the only North 664 00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:12,840 American guy in the race. And yeah, it's such a weird 665 00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,840 experience having only like 14 guys in the field because it was 666 00:34:15,840 --> 00:34:19,159 just like, I'm so used to the majors and grandmas, like 667 00:34:19,280 --> 00:34:24,080 they're just packed. And like it, it felt so empty. 668 00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,120 It was like it was a 2 loop course. 669 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:28,920 Yeah, yeah. And so it, it was a two half 670 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,120 marathons. I mean, it was a great course. 671 00:34:32,120 --> 00:34:34,600 I mean, I mean, it would have been really fast and like, I 672 00:34:34,679 --> 00:34:38,639 mean, we started out and I was like, OK, I don't feel horrid. 673 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:41,480 Like I don't feel good, but I don't feel like bad. 674 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:44,719 And I felt good. And I mean, I got through the 675 00:34:44,719 --> 00:34:48,880 half with the with the lead pack and then they decided to race 676 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:53,080 and I decided to not and. Was it lonely 'cause I'm, I'm 677 00:34:53,080 --> 00:34:56,920 looking at this and it's like winner was 211, the other two 678 00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,000 medalists 212 and then you have just like these pockets. 679 00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:05,640 It's like guys who packed up and probably ran two 14215, then 680 00:35:05,640 --> 00:35:08,680 there's a gap to the 220 group and then so is you. 681 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,000 I guess I'm looking a Dominican athlete, a Mexican athlete and 682 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:16,760 someone from Paraguay, I guess. But yeah, so there was like 3 of 683 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,040 you guys who ran 220. Oh, yeah, it was extremely 684 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:22,240 lonely. I don't remember really seeing 685 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:25,040 anyone after half marathon. I was like, oh, I'm just running 686 00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,680 by myself. Like this is just a glorified 687 00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,400 training right at at this point. Yeah, that that race was so 688 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:36,320 interesting because gosh, what was like maybe like halfway 689 00:35:36,320 --> 00:35:41,680 through the 1st lap, mile 6 or 7A Brazilian had pushed to the 690 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:43,800 front a little bit and everyone was like, we're not going to 691 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,640 cover it. He was maybe like 15 feet ahead 692 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:48,360 of us and we're like, he's not gapping. 693 00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:51,040 We're like whatever. All of a sudden, this dog runs 694 00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,160 on to the course and starts chasing him. 695 00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:57,640 And he like you, you see him turn around and you can just see 696 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,560 the fear in his eyes. And you're like, this is 697 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:01,560 terrifying. Like this. 698 00:36:01,560 --> 00:36:04,320 Like this dog's just in between us sprinting after this guy 699 00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:07,840 barking and like, like, some of the other athletes are like, 700 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,040 like yelling at the dog to get off the course. 701 00:36:10,040 --> 00:36:15,440 And I was like, this is wild. And then I also like looking 702 00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:18,040 back, I wouldn't have done this if I'd known it was COVID. 703 00:36:18,640 --> 00:36:21,720 But like as you do in a marathon, like you share bottles 704 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:23,720 and things like that. And so like I shared bottles 705 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:26,520 with like half the field and I'm like, great, I've got active 706 00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,520 COVID. Like I'm just spreading COVID to 707 00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:33,080 all of South America here like. Oh my gosh, yeah. 708 00:36:33,480 --> 00:36:35,800 Wild. All right, so you put that one 709 00:36:35,800 --> 00:36:39,000 behind you. It brings us to 2024. 710 00:36:39,520 --> 00:36:42,720 And yeah, I guess like I'm even thinking of the timing of that 711 00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,440 one. People were that's kind of like 712 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,600 at the the borderline of like leading into the 24 trials. 713 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,200 Like no one really wants to run another marathon all that close. 714 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,160 I remember New York's American field was a little bit weakened 715 00:36:55,680 --> 00:36:59,880 in 2023, but what were the feelings going into the 24 716 00:36:59,880 --> 00:37:01,680 trials? I definitely had more 717 00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:05,760 expectations for myself. I trained a little bit more 718 00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,480 specifically for Orlando. I did well. 719 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,080 I tried to do more heat prep. It's a little hard to do that 720 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:18,400 out in Seattle in the winter for, for, for a race in Orlando. 721 00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:23,160 So a lot of treadmill runs with full sweats on and things like 722 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:25,320 that. I hadn't figured out the sauna 723 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:27,120 yet. I didn't, you know, I've got a 724 00:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,040 portable one downstairs, one of those like little sweat boxes. 725 00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,800 Hadn't really figured that out yet. 726 00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,560 So I didn't use the sauna. I played a little bit with my 727 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:37,960 feeling and things like that because I knew it was going to 728 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,440 be hot. You know, even if people were 729 00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,240 saying like, oh, it's not going to be that warm, like, OK, I'm, 730 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,760 I'm coming from 30° in rain. Like it's, it's going to feel 731 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,080 warm for me. Like I'm come on now. 732 00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:50,160 I went in there and wanted to compete. 733 00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:52,680 I wanted to be top ten was the goal. 734 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,640 You know, I'd, I'd run 211 at that point. 735 00:37:55,640 --> 00:37:59,880 I knew I was fitter than 211. And so I was like, all right, 736 00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:03,280 let's go in and let's race hard in the heat. 737 00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:07,760 Got to me pretty bad. You know, the last I felt good 738 00:38:07,760 --> 00:38:10,160 for the first bit and then it just, it just hit me like a 739 00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,640 train, like just that overwhelming warmth. 740 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,120 And I remember like the last like 2 miles. 741 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,680 I don't remember much of the last two miles, but one of the 742 00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:23,400 club coaches was out there supporting us. 743 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:27,320 And he was like, yeah, you made direct eye contact with me. 744 00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:29,560 And he's like, it was like, look, he's like, you were like 745 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,680 looking through a brick wall. He's like, you were looking at 746 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:34,200 me, but you weren't looking at me. 747 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:37,120 And I was like, don't remember you being there, but, you know, 748 00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:41,080 but it was such a cool experience and so much fun. 749 00:38:41,080 --> 00:38:43,640 And I mean, gosh, like, even being, I think I was 28 or 750 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,920 something, you know, I was still happy with that accomplishment. 751 00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:51,080 I mean, I think, you know, Clayton probably had the best 752 00:38:51,080 --> 00:38:54,040 improvement from the 2020 trials to the 2024. 753 00:38:55,000 --> 00:39:00,160 I mean, hard to not improve that much for him, but I was really 754 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,800 happy going from 99th to, you know, 20 upper 20s. 755 00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:07,520 I knew I was fitter. I knew on a better day I could 756 00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:09,720 be in the top 15, top 20 or top ten. 757 00:39:09,720 --> 00:39:12,560 And it was it was just a cool experience again to do another 758 00:39:12,560 --> 00:39:16,320 trials to, you know, soak in these moments that are pretty 759 00:39:16,320 --> 00:39:19,560 rare in the sport. I think that's probably what 760 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:23,480 I've learned the most is just enjoying every race for what it 761 00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:26,560 is, enjoying the moments. Like I mean, after, after the 762 00:39:26,560 --> 00:39:29,440 marathon project, I just, I just remember kind of sitting there 763 00:39:29,480 --> 00:39:32,640 being like, oh Dang, like this may be my fastest time I ever 764 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,320 run and let's really soak this up and enjoy it. 765 00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,520 And that's all it was with the 2024 trials. 766 00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:43,160 I just, you know, I finished it wasn't what I wanted, but I was 767 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:46,760 like, wow, this is really cool. I've done 2 trials now like this 768 00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:49,600 is a really cool experience and I'll be able to look back on 769 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:51,760 these with really really fond memories. 770 00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:54,840 We'll get to the marathon project shortly, but you brought 771 00:39:54,840 --> 00:40:00,320 something up interesting, which was having run 211 before the 772 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,320 2024 trials. You allowed yourself to think, 773 00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:06,280 you know, that I could get top ten, right? 774 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:09,240 Like I'm a dark horse here. Like few people probably I'm on, 775 00:40:09,240 --> 00:40:11,240 I'm on few people's radar to make this team. 776 00:40:11,240 --> 00:40:14,880 But top ten, you know, would be like a really, really solid day. 777 00:40:15,320 --> 00:40:20,480 What's that time now for the 28 trials because everyone is 778 00:40:20,480 --> 00:40:23,640 running so much faster? What is the 211 equivalent 779 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:26,280 heading into 2028 as of right now I guess? 780 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:30,920 I mean, it's got to be sub 210. I mean, gosh, you've got guys 781 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:33,640 ripping it. I mean, not only do you. 782 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,600 Yeah, I mean, you've got Connor and Clayton, who, you know, yes, 783 00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:40,320 I know it seems like they've been dealing with some injuries 784 00:40:40,320 --> 00:40:42,000 and training has not been crazy smooth. 785 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,120 But I mean, it seems like Clayton's getting fit again. 786 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:45,920 He's going to be there in Boston, you know? 787 00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:50,920 You know, you've got Casey, you've got, you know, Ethan, 788 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,440 Julie, which I was like, Dang, OK, this is out of nowhere. 789 00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:56,000 Out of nowhere. I think everyone was like, Dang, 790 00:40:57,840 --> 00:41:01,160 there's these guys left and right running like 2O72O eights. 791 00:41:01,160 --> 00:41:04,960 I mean, I you know, I wouldn't be shocked, shocked if top ten 792 00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,160 took sub two O 9. You know, like there's so many 793 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:10,640 guys. I mean you've got Zuhair Talbi 794 00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,160 who just you know, is now AUS guy. 795 00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,480 I mean it, I mean it's wild, you know, be a like there's, there's 796 00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:19,640 so many guys you can think of now. 797 00:41:20,160 --> 00:41:24,840 I mean, it's wild to think back in 2024, like if you were two O 798 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:28,320 9, like you're a dark horse to make the team, you know, and 799 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,600 now, like, I mean, I'm going into it like top ten's a great, 800 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:38,040 like top ten's my goal, but it's like may take a two O 8, you 801 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:40,280 know. I mean, it's it's nuts now. 802 00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,320 And I mean, it's it's really cool to see that the US men are 803 00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:46,280 finally like getting it together and like actually getting 804 00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:49,560 running fast times rather than just all of us only running like 805 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:55,080 211, two 10 high. But yeah, it's it's 211 is not 806 00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:56,720 going to not going to cut it anymore. 807 00:41:57,400 --> 00:42:03,280 So 21155 Chicago 2024 was that more reflective of the day you'd 808 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,600 kind of hoped for in Orlando? Yes and no. 809 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,520 You know, Chicago's so weird because it's such a fast course 810 00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:15,400 and they put on such a great event, but the pacing structure 811 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:21,680 for Chicago really tailors to the guys trying to run 2O62O7. 812 00:42:23,240 --> 00:42:27,600 And so I remember that day, I think the slowest pacer was it 813 00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:31,640 going to be like 6430? And at the time, you know, I was 814 00:42:31,640 --> 00:42:34,080 just like that. Like I could go through half of 815 00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:38,440 that and I could be fine, but I'm not going to run 209 flat. 816 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,560 Like I was like I knew myself well enough. 817 00:42:40,560 --> 00:42:43,720 I'm like, I think a good day would be like 210 mid was kind 818 00:42:43,720 --> 00:42:45,280 of what we were thinking that day. 819 00:42:46,520 --> 00:42:50,440 And so I ended up pairing up with Alex Mayer and then Peter 820 00:42:50,440 --> 00:42:54,320 Lynch from Puma, and the three of us literally ran. 821 00:42:54,320 --> 00:42:56,200 We were like, let's just do this on our own. 822 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,200 And so it's just the three of us just going through Chicago and 823 00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:01,800 we're pretty even through the half. 824 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:05,880 I think we're like 6510 or something like that. 825 00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:11,520 And then yeah, it I think Alex put in a surge around mile. 826 00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,000 I think he left me around mile 20. 827 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:15,920 He was. Just pacing, right? 828 00:43:16,400 --> 00:43:19,120 No, no, he he was racing. That was his first marathon. 829 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,000 Oh, OK, gotcha. Yeah. 830 00:43:21,440 --> 00:43:22,960 Yeah. And so I mean, gosh, it's wild 831 00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:25,760 to see what he's he's been. Yeah, that's another one. 832 00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:30,320 But yeah, it was just the three of us and it was like, you know, 833 00:43:30,360 --> 00:43:34,840 I mean, Chicago is always windy. I mean, even if it's a gentle 834 00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,480 breeze, one mile an hour, it's it feels like more. 835 00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,440 And so, yeah, I mean, I was happy with a small PRI. 836 00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:43,320 Definitely thought I was fitter than that. 837 00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,840 That's the hard part with Chicago is just like, you're not 838 00:43:46,840 --> 00:43:51,200 going to get a Pacer going 65 or slower. 839 00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:54,080 You know, it's it's always going to be 6430 or faster. 840 00:43:54,480 --> 00:43:56,960 And even then I was talking to some of the guys because I 841 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,880 remember we were just rolling up guys the last like 10 miles 842 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,840 because they just fell off. And afterwards they're like, Oh 843 00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,200 yeah, our Pacer was quick. We were like 6410. 844 00:44:06,240 --> 00:44:09,320 And I was like, oh, geez, OK. Like made the smarter choice 845 00:44:09,320 --> 00:44:10,000 here. Like. 846 00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:11,960 This is also the Ruth Chapman. Get it here right? 847 00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,600 Yeah, that was a weird experience because I remember we 848 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:20,720 they went out and we're like what the heck is going on? 849 00:44:20,720 --> 00:44:24,920 This is nuts. And we caught one of the females 850 00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:26,560 and we're like OK, this is the leader. 851 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:27,880 Like cool. OK, good. 852 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,320 Like we've caught the lead female, like OK, And then we 853 00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:35,520 finished and we're like, wait, that was no, that wasn't the 854 00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,040 lead female. And we're like, oh, shoot. 855 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,360 Like we were just saying to ourselves, I was like, OK, So 856 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,080 what? She was like the, the, the 857 00:44:44,080 --> 00:44:47,600 second American male. We were like, what the heck? 858 00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,120 Yeah. All right. 859 00:44:49,120 --> 00:44:53,840 So then last year it was right after Chicago then that you sign 860 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,800 with Brooks, right? Yeah, yeah, pretty much right 861 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,400 after Chicago. You know, it helped. 862 00:44:59,400 --> 00:45:03,360 I was, I'm a local guy in Seattle, little bit of like a 863 00:45:03,360 --> 00:45:06,480 home grown roots guy who they were like, you know, let's take 864 00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,280 a little bit of a chance on him. You know, he's got a good story. 865 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:12,480 He's been working hard, like let's see what happens. 866 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,200 I mean, I kind of equate them to take in a pretty solid chance on 867 00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,680 me. I mean, I'd only run 21155. 868 00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:25,240 And so, yeah, yeah, I, I signed with Brooks that and right after 869 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:27,800 Chicago. What's that been like, I guess, 870 00:45:27,840 --> 00:45:32,320 and because you did bring up before where as an unsponsored 871 00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,480 runner, you're the one covering your travel costs and gels and, 872 00:45:36,560 --> 00:45:39,560 you know, rotating through a variety of different shoes that 873 00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:41,640 you have to go out and buy from time to time. 874 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:43,280 And this kind of alleviates all of that. 875 00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:47,360 Yeah, I mean, it allowed me to continue to keep kind of keep 876 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:49,480 plugging along on the dream, you know? 877 00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,640 I mean, running's definitely not my full time job, you know, and 878 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:56,400 I'm very thankful for that. Like I think it allows me to 879 00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:59,880 have a little bit of like, it truly is a really, really fun 880 00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,440 hobby. You know, like I don't have to 881 00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,840 worry about bills with that. Like I've got a full time job 882 00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:07,840 that pays for that and I can just, you know, run. 883 00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:10,760 It's truly enjoyment, which I think helps. 884 00:46:12,280 --> 00:46:14,960 And yeah, it's been great. You know, they, you know, just 885 00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,000 let alone the shoes and the gear, like not having to worry 886 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:19,760 about that and like, OK, like, all right. 887 00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,280 Like, you know, I mean, no one wants to run a marathon on a 888 00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,200 pair of shoes you've already raced. 889 00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:27,040 And we all want a fresh pair, you know. 890 00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,400 And so I mean, just that alone has been tremendous. 891 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:33,440 And just this like the support and like having those Brooks 892 00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:36,320 Hyperion houses and just the community they bring in. 893 00:46:37,440 --> 00:46:40,760 I've known Garrett for a while, just him being a Brooks Beast 894 00:46:40,760 --> 00:46:42,440 guy. You know, I met him when I was 895 00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,120 in college and just such a good guy. 896 00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,360 And I mean, the entire Brooks crew, like they're just really, 897 00:46:49,360 --> 00:46:54,320 really all around great people. Like when my son was born, you 898 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:57,040 know, they're all texting me, like just asking how he's doing, 899 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,840 like all that, that fun stuff. Like I remember, you know, like 900 00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:05,600 sending them photos of like him. And yeah, it's just like they 901 00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,200 just they, they really care about you as a person versus 902 00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:11,520 like the whole like athletic performance. 903 00:47:11,520 --> 00:47:13,240 Like, yes, they want you to perform well. 904 00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:17,320 Like it brings great look to the brand, but they also just really 905 00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,240 care about you. And they like are just checking 906 00:47:20,240 --> 00:47:23,440 in, like, you know, how's the kiddo doing all that fun stuff. 907 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,640 And yeah, I, I mean, from the like, brand monetary side, like, 908 00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,640 yeah, it really helps to not have to stress about like, you 909 00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,800 know, travel, hotels, things like that. 910 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:38,200 You know, it allowed. I mean, it really just allows me 911 00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,760 to keep doing this and just continue to, you know, see, 912 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:44,720 where is the ceiling? Because I don't know. 913 00:47:44,720 --> 00:47:48,040 I mean, I, I think I've got a little more time in me, so I'm 914 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:52,400 not too old yet. This episode of the City of 915 00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,320 Smack podcast is presented by Lollipop. 916 00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,640 Because of course it is. 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We've made it the runner's soda. 952 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:53,320 You got a birthday coming up, right? 953 00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:56,720 Yeah, I actually, I fly out to Boston on my birthday. 954 00:49:56,880 --> 00:49:57,960 Yeah, yeah. OK. 955 00:49:58,400 --> 00:50:01,880 Yeah. Then we've got Boston last year 956 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:05,440 21431. What did you learn from that 957 00:50:05,440 --> 00:50:07,280 performance? That was a hard one. 958 00:50:08,560 --> 00:50:12,000 I was supposed to, I had a lot of expectations for that one, 959 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,920 especially because that was my first marathon with Brooks in 960 00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:17,880 the in the pro kit. I was actually supposed to do 961 00:50:17,880 --> 00:50:23,400 Houston in January in the half, but I spent all of like 962 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,560 December, January sick. I don't know what it was just 963 00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,800 some nasty cold going around. So I pulled out and then I had a 964 00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:35,720 really, really bad kind of knee flare up and I could not, I was 965 00:50:35,720 --> 00:50:38,600 cross training like a maniac. I didn't run for a month or so. 966 00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:42,360 It was just trying to, I was throwing everything at the wall. 967 00:50:42,360 --> 00:50:44,120 I got an MRI. They couldn't figure out what 968 00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:45,600 was wrong with it. They're like, really, there's 969 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:49,200 nothing structurally wrong. They're like, and I was like, 970 00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,840 what is going on? Finally I was like, all right, 971 00:50:52,840 --> 00:50:54,160 you know what, I'm going to try acupuncture. 972 00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:57,360 I never tried it before. I didn't really know much about 973 00:50:57,360 --> 00:50:59,120 it. I was like, screw it, like let's 974 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:00,680 just let's just see what happens. 975 00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:04,840 And after two acupuncture's like pain free and I was like, OK, 976 00:51:04,840 --> 00:51:07,920 sweet, here we go. I was like, this is so weird, 977 00:51:07,920 --> 00:51:10,680 but whatever. And so I think Boston was only 978 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:14,680 like a seven week build up. And so I still felt fit and I 979 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:16,880 felt really good. And I just wanted to compete, 980 00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,360 You know, up until the marathon project, I, I really wanted to 981 00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:22,760 run a fast time. And I felt like I was like, OK, 982 00:51:22,760 --> 00:51:24,960 like I feel like I can run a quick one in Boston. 983 00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:29,240 And sure enough, I mean, the, the lack of calicine just caught 984 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:30,960 up to me. My legs just didn't have it. 985 00:51:30,960 --> 00:51:33,480 The last right through the hills. 986 00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,800 The hills just kind of got me just, I mean, again, like time 987 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:40,280 and time again, like I forgot what Boston felt like with that 988 00:51:40,520 --> 00:51:43,520 environment. And just like, the one thing I'm 989 00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:48,440 learning with Boston is people race to the top of the hills of 990 00:51:48,440 --> 00:51:51,640 Newton Hills and you get to the top and you still have like 991 00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:56,480 7:00-ish miles to go. And that's a solid chunk of time 992 00:51:56,480 --> 00:51:59,360 in the marathon. I mean, you're still 30 plus 993 00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,320 minutes to go from the finish. And so if anything, I'm just 994 00:52:03,320 --> 00:52:05,760 kind of learning more about that pacing side of Boston. 995 00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,360 I mean, nowadays, I mean, you have to go out fast. 996 00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:13,080 Like, you know, like, I think back to like Scott Faubal and 997 00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,760 him being like crazy smart in Boston and like going out more 998 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:19,000 conservative and just rolling people up. 999 00:52:20,120 --> 00:52:21,560 Those days are just kind of gone. 1000 00:52:21,560 --> 00:52:24,880 Like you've got to go out, you know, it's hard. 1001 00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:27,600 And I mean, I'm, I'm sure a lot of it is the shoe technology and 1002 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,320 people just aren't dying as hard. 1003 00:52:31,280 --> 00:52:33,680 But like, you know, we're just learning to callous the, the 1004 00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:35,640 legs a little more than hit the hills hard. 1005 00:52:35,640 --> 00:52:39,120 And then just like can you survive that last 10K? 1006 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:44,000 140 ish miles a week for you, I guess like in in that build up 1007 00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:47,120 and in the build up to the marathon project, I guess like 1008 00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:49,640 when you would peek out or what's the training look like? 1009 00:52:50,080 --> 00:52:52,480 About about 1:40 is kind of where we peek. 1010 00:52:53,160 --> 00:52:56,320 I find anything about 1:40, I start to feel a little too dead. 1011 00:52:57,520 --> 00:53:01,880 I think my sweet spot is between 1:30 and 1:40, and that's kind 1012 00:53:02,000 --> 00:53:07,760 of where I thrive, which I wish I thrived lower because that's a 1013 00:53:07,760 --> 00:53:09,920 lot of miles. How do you break that up 1014 00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,120 throughout the, you know, seven days, I guess? 1015 00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:16,680 Yeah, gosh, I mean, thinking back to the marathon project 1016 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:20,960 build up, yeah, kind of those peak weeks, you know, my coach 1017 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,840 really loves to nail the weekends. 1018 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:25,640 And so at least looking at Saturday, Sunday, you know, 1019 00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:30,120 he'll always have it be anywhere from 16 to a 20 mile tempo. 1020 00:53:30,560 --> 00:53:32,840 And then, you know, with warm up and cool down, you're looking at 1021 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,640 above a 20 mile day. And then he'll usually have me 1022 00:53:35,640 --> 00:53:41,760 come back the next day and run 24 miles moderate roughly. 1023 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:47,000 There was one weekend he had me do I think like 29 or 30 miles. 1024 00:53:47,000 --> 00:53:50,880 Moderate, yeah. The race is only 26. 1025 00:53:51,080 --> 00:53:53,720 Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's a little bit of 1026 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,520 that mental game where it's like, OK, like if you can get to 1027 00:53:56,520 --> 00:54:00,040 30, like, OK, 26 isn't too bad. But yeah, you're like, OK, I 1028 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:04,160 only need a race 26 miles here. Yeah. 1029 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:06,600 I mean, during the week, I mean, I double pretty much every day. 1030 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:11,080 I've never tried tripling, nor do I have the desire to try to 1031 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:13,320 triple. Camel Evans is different for 1032 00:54:13,320 --> 00:54:15,360 that kind of stuff. Yeah, right. 1033 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:18,680 I'm like, dude, how are like what danger is that? 1034 00:54:18,680 --> 00:54:22,240 Like, yeah, I'm like what? You finish your run, shower, 1035 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:25,800 eat, run again and then repeat. I'm like, dude, I'm like, how 1036 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,880 are you doing this? But yeah, I mean, usually the, 1037 00:54:30,040 --> 00:54:34,080 the longer run through the week will be like 11-12 miles and 1038 00:54:34,080 --> 00:54:36,160 they'll come back for A-77 or 8 miles. 1039 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:39,600 Wednesdays. I'll, I'll try to get a little 1040 00:54:39,600 --> 00:54:43,560 bit longer for the workout. But yeah, I mean, it's pretty 1041 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:45,400 broken evenly Monday through Friday. 1042 00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:47,560 I, I tried to just like make it pretty even. 1043 00:54:48,520 --> 00:54:50,640 I'm sure there's some benefit I could do to play around with 1044 00:54:50,640 --> 00:54:53,120 that and make some days a little more, some days a little less. 1045 00:54:53,120 --> 00:54:58,080 But with a full time job and A and a kiddo, it's easier to, to 1046 00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,280 make it pretty, pretty even. So I know my wife appreciates 1047 00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,400 that. So how did you land on choosing 1048 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,160 the marathon project for your fall? 1049 00:55:08,160 --> 00:55:12,080 Or or like, yeah, a late, late fall race of 2025. 1050 00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:20,240 In talking with my agent who's Josh talks, you know, he's one 1051 00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:22,440 of the Co founders for the marathon Project and you know, 1052 00:55:22,440 --> 00:55:26,480 we chatted and we really wanted to just RIP a good one. 1053 00:55:27,200 --> 00:55:29,920 You know, you know, he knows the setup of the marathon project's 1054 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:33,120 going to be pretty much ideal. It's a pancake flat race, 1055 00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,120 controllable temperatures, controllable pacing, 1056 00:55:36,120 --> 00:55:38,960 everything's controllable, which is, you know, that's kind of why 1057 00:55:38,960 --> 00:55:42,440 it's so fast is you can control the uncontrollable to a certain 1058 00:55:42,440 --> 00:55:43,960 extent. You know, I thought about doing 1059 00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,240 Chicago, I thought about New York, but I really wanted to run 1060 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:48,920 a fast time. That was the goal. 1061 00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:52,200 And so he was like, hey, like, what's your thoughts? 1062 00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:55,040 Let's do the marathon project. I was like, OK, let's like come 1063 00:55:55,040 --> 00:55:58,080 in like, let's let's do it. And it was hard because like, 1064 00:55:58,240 --> 00:56:00,480 you know, you, you see the results of Chicago and you're 1065 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:02,640 like, gosh darn it, Like I really wish I was in that. 1066 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,440 But I was like, Nope, my time's come in like marathon projects 1067 00:56:06,440 --> 00:56:09,640 coming up. And it was weird to not do a 1068 00:56:09,640 --> 00:56:13,640 major and do a little bit more low key of a race. 1069 00:56:13,640 --> 00:56:17,720 You know, I mean by no means like, I mean, I, I think the 1070 00:56:17,720 --> 00:56:20,400 marathon projects going to only continue to grow, but it was the 1071 00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,640 first time it had happened since 2020. 1072 00:56:24,600 --> 00:56:26,680 And so, yeah, I was like, you know what, let's change this up. 1073 00:56:26,680 --> 00:56:31,280 Let's get out of this cycle that I'm always doing like a Chicago 1074 00:56:31,280 --> 00:56:34,080 or something like that. Like let's let's switch it up a 1075 00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:36,240 little. It was a little weird to 1076 00:56:36,240 --> 00:56:39,520 continue to train through like November and early December. 1077 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:44,440 And it made the, the Christmas season was weird just because I 1078 00:56:44,440 --> 00:56:46,440 was like, man, the mayor like you're 3 weeks out. 1079 00:56:46,440 --> 00:56:49,600 Like, it feels so close. But then I think about it and 1080 00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:51,120 I'm like, oh, that's three weeks till, like, Christmas. 1081 00:56:51,120 --> 00:56:54,040 Like that feels so far. And I, I kept telling my wife I 1082 00:56:54,040 --> 00:56:57,600 was like, this feels so weird. Like, like, I feel like the 1083 00:56:57,600 --> 00:57:00,920 Christmas season is so long but so short now, Yeah. 1084 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,560 Yeah, I've been there with training for like Houston 1085 00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:05,240 Marathon. It's the same sort of like time 1086 00:57:05,360 --> 00:57:08,320 where you're having to go through Thanksgiving and 1087 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,880 Christmas for that one with just sort of like, oh, like I've got 1088 00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:15,120 to still do a long run after all of these holidays. 1089 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:19,560 Yeah, it was nice to like literally not have to run over 1090 00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:21,320 Christmas. Like that was really nice. 1091 00:57:21,320 --> 00:57:26,400 Like truly didn't have to like, you know, you go do Christmas 1092 00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:29,680 with the parents, you know, like, OK, I got to go run or 1093 00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:32,040 like I got to run before we do Christmas and then, oh, I need 1094 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:36,320 to run after, like, sorry. So that that was really nice to 1095 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:39,960 truly get a holiday where, OK, I don't need to train hard. 1096 00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:42,640 So there's a variety of different factors that we can 1097 00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,480 point towards like in terms of like the jump of time from 2:11 1098 00:57:46,480 --> 00:57:51,800 to two O 9 mid where one it's the course, the conditions like 1099 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:55,280 that's that, you know, plays a big factor into just sort of the 1100 00:57:55,280 --> 00:58:00,120 type of race that you're facing. Then there's obviously 1101 00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:04,880 improvements in, you know, nutrition and at the same time 1102 00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:08,520 fueling and the footwear. But what other sort of like 1103 00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,720 little areas did you see sort of like marginal gains that you 1104 00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:15,680 know, you kind of thought, all right, sub 210 could be in the 1105 00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,560 cards? Yeah. 1106 00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:22,240 You know, it was an, it was an interesting build where a lot of 1107 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:28,080 uncertainty, you know, my son was born this last August. 1108 00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:31,880 And so it's a little bit of unknown what this was gonna look 1109 00:58:31,880 --> 00:58:34,880 like. I was actually pretty much 1110 00:58:34,880 --> 00:58:40,040 working full time as well. I delayed all of my paternity 1111 00:58:40,040 --> 00:58:43,160 leave until after the marathon project, so I was working full 1112 00:58:43,160 --> 00:58:45,160 time as well and helping my wife. 1113 00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:49,000 And so we didn't know what. I was pretty happy, obviously, 1114 00:58:49,000 --> 00:58:51,800 with how it all panned out given everything going on. 1115 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:54,840 And yeah, I mean, it was interesting. 1116 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:58,360 Like with everything and how crazy life was, running just 1117 00:58:58,360 --> 00:59:01,760 clicked. Workouts felt really good. 1118 00:59:03,080 --> 00:59:06,240 My wife was actually a registered dietitian and so we 1119 00:59:06,240 --> 00:59:08,640 kind of honed in on my fuel and stuff. 1120 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:12,960 We realized I wasn't fueling enough during the marathon and 1121 00:59:12,960 --> 00:59:16,760 so we dialed that up. I changed a little bit of just 1122 00:59:16,760 --> 00:59:19,920 when I took fuel during the race, things like that. 1123 00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:25,200 I think the biggest thing is like, I feel like all the years 1124 00:59:25,200 --> 00:59:30,440 and weeks of mileage finally stacked in and like I was doing 1125 00:59:30,440 --> 00:59:33,520 workouts where I was just hitting the paces prescribed 1126 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:36,960 slash a little bit quicker and things just felt it was just 1127 00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,960 that one of those builds where things were just clicking. 1128 00:59:40,000 --> 00:59:43,200 Everything was kind of going in the right direction, had no real 1129 00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:46,920 hiccups and I just had a really, really good confidence going in. 1130 00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:51,360 I mean, I, I both Josh and my coach were like, no, you're not 1131 00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:55,560 going to like, let's be smart. Don't don't go out in 64 flat 1132 00:59:55,560 --> 00:59:58,200 with the leaders. But I part of me was like, let's 1133 00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:59,960 see what happens. Like this is where. 1134 00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:04,960 But I was also like, no, like, let's you've only run 211 high. 1135 01:00:04,960 --> 01:00:08,560 Let's let let's be smart here, not try to run 208. 1136 01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,280 So how did you approach the race? 1137 01:00:11,280 --> 01:00:14,720 Because I think I remember seeing scenes of it where, you 1138 01:00:14,720 --> 01:00:16,560 know, I guess there was a, there was a pack. 1139 01:00:16,560 --> 01:00:19,160 Ben Rosa, I think was also sort of up there. 1140 01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:23,800 How did it unfold for you? So our our Pacers were supposed 1141 01:00:23,800 --> 01:00:28,640 to go 65 flat to the half and I Remember Me and JP were like, we 1142 01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:30,640 both felt really fit going into it. 1143 01:00:31,480 --> 01:00:34,680 I knew JP was doing it. I mean, gosh, I think after even 1144 01:00:34,680 --> 01:00:39,840 Boston that this last year and we both felt really fit. 1145 01:00:39,840 --> 01:00:42,040 You know, I've seen when he was running on Strava and I was 1146 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:43,880 like, OK, like, no, we're both really good here. 1147 01:00:43,880 --> 01:00:47,800 And we wanted a little quicker than 65, but they were pretty 1148 01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:50,000 like no Pacers going to be 65 flat. 1149 01:00:51,640 --> 01:00:53,640 Thankfully they're a little quick, which was great. 1150 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:55,440 I was pretty antsy the first half. 1151 01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,840 I felt really, really good. I felt like we're just smooth. 1152 01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:04,320 You know, my buddy, he flew out from Idaho down to watch 'cause 1153 01:01:04,320 --> 01:01:06,120 he's like, I just feel like something big is going to 1154 01:01:06,120 --> 01:01:08,000 happen. And I was like, well, you, 1155 01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,200 you're right. And that that was really special 1156 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,280 to have him there as well. But yeah, we were just kind of 1157 01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:17,920 clicking along. Our Pacers did a phenomenal job. 1158 01:01:17,920 --> 01:01:20,400 I mean, I think they went, I think 1. 1159 01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:23,840 The last one dropped AT30K, which is just nuts. 1160 01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:27,320 Like making it to mile 18. Like me and JP were talking to 1161 01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:30,320 him after like, dude, you like thank you. 1162 01:01:30,440 --> 01:01:33,040 Like that was amazing. And yeah, I mean, we were just 1163 01:01:33,040 --> 01:01:34,080 rolling. We're clicking. 1164 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:35,760 I mean, I think it was the most even splits. 1165 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:41,320 I mean, I think we went out at 65 flat pace and then it was 2 1166 01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:45,520 Hoka Naz elite guys pacing and or one of them was pacing. 1167 01:01:45,520 --> 01:01:48,640 And I remember seeing their coach like mile 3 and he was 1168 01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,200 like, you guys are like 5 seconds slow or something. 1169 01:01:51,400 --> 01:01:54,160 And that like all of a sudden, the moment they said that, like 1170 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:57,320 all of a sudden just dialed up a little bit and instead of 1171 01:01:57,320 --> 01:02:02,560 running like 458 pace, there's like 440-4444 and we were just 1172 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:06,840 clicking right in that. And then we started rolling up 1173 01:02:06,840 --> 01:02:10,880 the chase that that lead pack probably around like I think I 1174 01:02:10,880 --> 01:02:18,200 caught like Paul around like I want to say like mile 22 or 1175 01:02:18,200 --> 01:02:20,000 something. But we started seeing them. 1176 01:02:20,360 --> 01:02:22,760 We we we could tell they were coming back or like, OK, that 1177 01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:25,560 no, like they're not running two O 8 today. 1178 01:02:26,920 --> 01:02:30,480 And we kind of figured like, I don't know, I like amazing 1179 01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:33,360 pedigree of those guys, but I was like, I just feel like two O 1180 01:02:33,360 --> 01:02:37,520 8's not like that's a big, that's a big swing for them. 1181 01:02:37,520 --> 01:02:40,160 I was like, OK, And just seeing some of the guys who went out 1182 01:02:40,160 --> 01:02:41,920 with them, I was like, I just don't think you guys are going 1183 01:02:41,920 --> 01:02:45,800 to run 2O8 flat. And so, yeah, we started 1184 01:02:45,800 --> 01:02:50,160 catching them and then, you know, our packs slowly started 1185 01:02:50,160 --> 01:02:52,680 to dwindle a little bit. And it ended up just being like 1186 01:02:52,680 --> 01:02:58,360 JP, myself, Ben Rosa, and then there's another Brooks guy, 1187 01:02:58,360 --> 01:03:02,960 Thomas Buffard, who was in there with us, same with Nick Hogger. 1188 01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:05,720 And it was kind of like the five or six of us just kind of 1189 01:03:05,720 --> 01:03:09,840 rolling along. And then JP made a pretty solid 1190 01:03:09,840 --> 01:03:11,920 move around, I think like mile 23. 1191 01:03:12,440 --> 01:03:14,720 And that's where I was like, gosh darn it, like I wish I'd 1192 01:03:14,720 --> 01:03:17,720 responded because I felt pretty good the last half mile. 1193 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,680 But yeah, he's, he's just put in a little bit of a surge. 1194 01:03:21,680 --> 01:03:26,640 And I, I mean, he rolled up, what is it, Nadil? 1195 01:03:27,960 --> 01:03:30,400 And I caught in a deal around like mile 25 and I was like, oh, 1196 01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:32,880 Dang, like I just second place. So this is pretty cool. 1197 01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:36,400 But yeah, it's just like it was just one of those races where it 1198 01:03:36,400 --> 01:03:40,480 just like we're just clicking a wrong, just clicking along and 1199 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,640 really good atmosphere. I mean, it was very odd. 1200 01:03:43,880 --> 01:03:47,840 Like it's a loop course, but it's also not like it's kind of 1201 01:03:47,840 --> 01:03:51,960 more of an out and back, just back and forth because like, 1202 01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:54,320 gosh, weird. Like you start and like, oh, 1203 01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:57,000 there's the mile marker for mile 23. 1204 01:03:57,000 --> 01:04:02,520 Like, cool, I'm 10 seconds into the race and I'll I'll be back 1205 01:04:02,520 --> 01:04:06,440 here in two hours, so. You said second place, pretty 1206 01:04:06,440 --> 01:04:09,560 cool, but that's not really, I guess, like how you expressed it 1207 01:04:09,560 --> 01:04:13,680 crossing the finish line where it was more overly emotional. 1208 01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:16,080 And I guess like, can you describe I guess what because 1209 01:04:16,080 --> 01:04:18,680 the finish line photo that's up on your Instagram is pretty 1210 01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:20,720 epic. What were you feeling in that 1211 01:04:20,720 --> 01:04:25,920 moment? Man, just pure joy, you know, I 1212 01:04:25,920 --> 01:04:29,400 knew I could run 210. I felt fit enough to do that, 1213 01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:34,480 but doing it on the day into finally, like after all those 1214 01:04:34,480 --> 01:04:37,280 years to run a time, I was like, OK, I'm really proud of this 1215 01:04:37,280 --> 01:04:38,840 time. And if this is the fastest I 1216 01:04:38,840 --> 01:04:43,600 ever run, like no issue, pure joy and relief crossing the 1217 01:04:43,600 --> 01:04:45,600 finish line. You know, and I, I I think I 1218 01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,800 told a buddy of this. I was like, you know, if there's 1219 01:04:47,800 --> 01:04:50,560 anyone I'm going to lose to, like it's fine to be JP. 1220 01:04:50,640 --> 01:04:54,720 Like he's, he's a great guy. We've beat each other back and 1221 01:04:54,720 --> 01:04:57,640 forth before and he's a really just all around good guy. 1222 01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:00,640 And yeah, just crossing the finish line. 1223 01:05:00,640 --> 01:05:02,200 I was like, you know what, I don't care. 1224 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:04,800 I'm going to celebrate this. Like I just ran two O 9. 1225 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:08,120 Like I work full time. I've got a three month old at 1226 01:05:08,120 --> 01:05:10,640 home. Like this is huge. 1227 01:05:10,880 --> 01:05:13,040 Like this is such a big win for me. 1228 01:05:13,640 --> 01:05:17,040 And it was just like, OK, like all these years of hard work and 1229 01:05:17,040 --> 01:05:21,120 accomplishment, like 2, like 2 elevens quick, you know, like, 1230 01:05:21,160 --> 01:05:25,720 and by no means is that like a knock, but it's just like, OK. 1231 01:05:25,720 --> 01:05:29,400 Like I finally ran like a good time in my opinion. 1232 01:05:29,400 --> 01:05:32,880 And it was just pure joy. Yeah, just, I had so much. 1233 01:05:32,880 --> 01:05:36,600 But when I realized coming down the last, like, 600 meters, I 1234 01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:39,480 was like, oh, crap. Like, this is awesome. 1235 01:05:39,480 --> 01:05:41,360 This is really, really cool. Yeah. 1236 01:05:41,680 --> 01:05:45,440 And it was fun, like finishing the race and like, my agents 1237 01:05:45,440 --> 01:05:48,120 immediately right there and just gave him a huge hug. 1238 01:05:48,120 --> 01:05:51,080 And my dad flew out to watch with me. 1239 01:05:52,120 --> 01:05:54,720 And he somehow got to the finish line. 1240 01:05:54,720 --> 01:05:59,560 I don't know how, but he. He he had his camera with him 1241 01:05:59,600 --> 01:06:04,200 and I think they just assumed he was like a media guy, just let 1242 01:06:04,200 --> 01:06:06,360 him into the finish area. So that's. 1243 01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:07,880 Awesome. I guess the one thing that 1244 01:06:07,880 --> 01:06:11,600 stands out in sort of like you telling a bit of that story and 1245 01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:14,360 also just sort of how how emotional it was for you because 1246 01:06:14,400 --> 01:06:17,000 all you had all these things going on in your life and and 1247 01:06:17,000 --> 01:06:21,120 everything lining up on the day. It's partly because I think one 1248 01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:24,720 thing we've learned over time is that sometimes it's really 1249 01:06:24,720 --> 01:06:28,440 healthy to not wrap your whole entire identity around running. 1250 01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,520 How has that been sort of one of the keys to your success you 1251 01:06:32,520 --> 01:06:35,440 feel? Yeah, you know it's hard cuz I 1252 01:06:35,440 --> 01:06:38,280 love running and running is truly a part of my life. 1253 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,040 But I think now being a dad, which is kind of weird to say, 1254 01:06:44,720 --> 01:06:48,240 it's really cool to watch him grow and just see like, I mean, 1255 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,640 he's, he just turned seven months and like, gosh, like 1256 01:06:52,640 --> 01:06:55,560 watching him stand and do all these like crazy things, I'm 1257 01:06:55,560 --> 01:06:59,200 like, dude, this is wild. Like you are growing in front of 1258 01:06:59,200 --> 01:07:01,200 my eyes. And it's, it just kind of you 1259 01:07:01,200 --> 01:07:05,400 realize there's so much more to life than, you know, how fast 1260 01:07:05,400 --> 01:07:09,800 you can run this weird arbitrary 26 miles or how fast you can run 1261 01:07:09,800 --> 01:07:13,400 a 10K or 5K. And like, it's really cool to be 1262 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,560 able to do those things. But it's also like, man, there's 1263 01:07:15,560 --> 01:07:16,920 so much more. Yeah. 1264 01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:20,160 There's just so much more to life than this arbitrary 1265 01:07:20,160 --> 01:07:25,360 distance and, you know, also working full time, like, it's 1266 01:07:25,360 --> 01:07:28,240 nice to have a break from the sport as well. 1267 01:07:28,320 --> 01:07:30,960 Yeah. For the training leading into 1268 01:07:31,120 --> 01:07:33,400 this Boston Marathon, what's been different? 1269 01:07:33,400 --> 01:07:36,440 Or did you try and keep a lot of what worked in the lead up to 1270 01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,240 the marathon project together for the build? 1271 01:07:39,080 --> 01:07:41,240 Yeah, You know, we, we changed a little bit. 1272 01:07:41,240 --> 01:07:44,080 I'm a very transparent person when it comes to training. 1273 01:07:44,080 --> 01:07:45,680 Like I post everything on Strava. 1274 01:07:45,680 --> 01:07:48,520 Like I don't hide anything. So like what you see is what you 1275 01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,920 get. Like I think running, you know, 1276 01:07:51,920 --> 01:07:53,960 I don't think there's a secret sauce to running. 1277 01:07:53,960 --> 01:07:57,320 Like I know some guys get weird about posting things on Strava 1278 01:07:57,320 --> 01:07:59,240 and I'm like, I think it's great. 1279 01:07:59,240 --> 01:08:01,840 I think it's good for people to see what people are doing to 1280 01:08:01,840 --> 01:08:05,200 accomplish these things. Yeah, I mean, we, we changed a 1281 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:06,560 little bit. We did a little bit more double 1282 01:08:06,560 --> 01:08:10,600 threshold stuff, which in the past I've, I've dabbled with it, 1283 01:08:10,600 --> 01:08:13,320 but I've never, we've never committed to it. 1284 01:08:13,360 --> 01:08:16,640 I think we did six weeks straight, especially leading up 1285 01:08:16,640 --> 01:08:20,399 into the half. And then these last couple weeks 1286 01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:23,080 we, he's kind of like just ripped the Band-Aid off with our 1287 01:08:23,080 --> 01:08:27,600 longer thresholds. And it'll be interesting to see 1288 01:08:27,600 --> 01:08:30,000 how it pays off. I mean, the nice thing is I feel 1289 01:08:30,000 --> 01:08:31,680 like I've got the legs for the marathon. 1290 01:08:31,680 --> 01:08:36,240 My, my weakness comes from like the quicker stuff. 1291 01:08:37,080 --> 01:08:39,120 I'm really good at longer thresholds. 1292 01:08:39,520 --> 01:08:42,720 But like man, doing half marathon and 10K specific work 1293 01:08:42,720 --> 01:08:46,600 is really where I struggle. And that's where like, you know, 1294 01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:51,640 running 6242 in New York. Like, yes, on paper, like a 1295 01:08:51,640 --> 01:08:56,279 bunch of those guys who ran 60 flat, like my plan is to try and 1296 01:08:56,279 --> 01:08:58,840 beat them in Boston. Like I'm a better marathoner 1297 01:08:58,840 --> 01:09:03,120 than I am 1/2 marathoner. And you kind of see it like the 1298 01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,040 half is closer to the 10K than it is the marathon. 1299 01:09:06,439 --> 01:09:12,319 And so, you know, guys running 60 flat doesn't really faze me. 1300 01:09:12,560 --> 01:09:15,439 Like I'm like, OK, well, you can run like a 26 minute 10K. 1301 01:09:15,439 --> 01:09:18,359 Like I can't, I can't even do that for a 5K. 1302 01:09:18,359 --> 01:09:22,120 So you know, like I'll, I'll see on the Newton hills. 1303 01:09:22,160 --> 01:09:26,240 Like, you know, it's, it's kind of where I'm at, like, you know, 1304 01:09:26,240 --> 01:09:29,680 like this last Saturday we did our big 20 mile tempo and like, 1305 01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:34,479 you know, the first like I'm getting over a cold, like my dog 1306 01:09:34,479 --> 01:09:39,080 tore her ACL that weekend. And so it's just a crazy weekend 1307 01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,960 and I'm like, well, I gotta go do this 20 mile workout and you 1308 01:09:42,960 --> 01:09:46,200 know, I'm running like 5O2 pace and I'm like talking to my buddy 1309 01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:50,200 who's helping bike with me. Granted, I struggled a little 1310 01:09:50,200 --> 01:09:52,760 bit with the fatigue, the last bit with just the sickness 1311 01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:55,600 catching up to me. But we've not changed a bunch. 1312 01:09:55,600 --> 01:09:57,920 I mean, we did more double threshold before the half. 1313 01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:00,200 The mileage has been around the same. 1314 01:10:00,200 --> 01:10:02,560 I didn't, I don't think I peeked out at the same. 1315 01:10:02,560 --> 01:10:07,360 I think it was about 1:38. We just didn't really have the 1316 01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:11,720 whole time to stretch it out. I mean, I took a little downtime 1317 01:10:11,720 --> 01:10:14,240 after the marathon project and then it made it felt like, all 1318 01:10:14,240 --> 01:10:16,520 right, let's just RIP the Band-Aid off again. 1319 01:10:16,520 --> 01:10:22,960 Like back, back to work we go. So the Boston American field is 1320 01:10:23,440 --> 01:10:26,760 pretty loaded. You've shared enough of your 1321 01:10:26,760 --> 01:10:30,920 story here that I think like to a lot of people, you're maybe 1322 01:10:30,920 --> 01:10:35,040 the most relatable of the pros in in the field. 1323 01:10:35,240 --> 01:10:38,920 What's the reason that people should root for for you not to 1324 01:10:38,920 --> 01:10:42,160 pit you against, you know, the Clayton Young's of the world or 1325 01:10:42,160 --> 01:10:44,200 like the Connor Manses. But you know, why should people 1326 01:10:44,200 --> 01:10:46,800 root for Turner Wiley on April 20th? 1327 01:10:47,160 --> 01:10:49,120 I mean, I, I think you kind of nailed it. 1328 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:53,440 I'm, you know, this may sound bad, but I'm, I'm more relatable 1329 01:10:53,480 --> 01:10:57,440 than the Claytons, the Connors, the guys who do it truly full 1330 01:10:57,440 --> 01:10:59,760 time. They're not working another job. 1331 01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:03,720 That is their job. You know, I'm, I'm getting up 1332 01:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,360 probably earlier than all the other pros, you know, I'm 1333 01:11:07,360 --> 01:11:11,000 getting up at 5:00 AM. You know, they're, I'm probably 1334 01:11:11,000 --> 01:11:15,880 done with my first run before they're waking up, you know, and 1335 01:11:15,880 --> 01:11:19,000 that's not to knock it because I would love to be able to, I'd 1336 01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:21,960 love to be able to sleep in till 9:00 AM and do my first run at 1337 01:11:21,960 --> 01:11:25,920 like 9:30. But that's just not the world I 1338 01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:28,760 live in. And so why root for Turner? 1339 01:11:30,040 --> 01:11:35,120 I, you know, I mean, gosh, I just, I'm just a regular guy who 1340 01:11:35,120 --> 01:11:38,800 has just put years and years of work in and it finally paid off. 1341 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:41,840 And I think if anything, it just shows like, you know, those guys 1342 01:11:41,840 --> 01:11:45,120 who are in college right now who aren't making nationals, whether 1343 01:11:45,120 --> 01:11:49,080 they're Division One, division two, Division Three, or even 1344 01:11:49,080 --> 01:11:53,560 NANAI or JUCO, like, you know, if you keep working at it, like, 1345 01:11:54,080 --> 01:11:57,880 really, the Sky's the limit. Like, I mean, gosh, only ran 1346 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:01,800 3050 for the 10K in college. Like, and now I'm running 209 1347 01:12:01,800 --> 01:12:04,360 for the marathon. Like, yeah, I mean, really, just 1348 01:12:04,480 --> 01:12:08,480 hard work pays off. And if you like people who put 1349 01:12:08,480 --> 01:12:12,480 their nose to the grindstone and don't don't quit on their 1350 01:12:12,480 --> 01:12:15,280 dreams, then I'm I'm probably the guy to root for. 1351 01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,120 That's the beauty about the marathon as an event is that you 1352 01:12:18,120 --> 01:12:21,640 could look at the US all timeless right now and just spot 1353 01:12:21,760 --> 01:12:24,560 certain things that you're like, well, OK, yeah, sure. 1354 01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,680 Connor Mance at the top of it makes sense. 1355 01:12:26,680 --> 01:12:30,360 Galen Rupp makes sense. And then as you just start to go 1356 01:12:30,360 --> 01:12:33,440 through, you know, the top 20 ish, you're just like Ethan 1357 01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:36,920 Shuli, like he competed one time in a BYU singlet. 1358 01:12:36,920 --> 01:12:39,400 And it's like just all these different names, like division 1359 01:12:39,400 --> 01:12:43,000 two runners, Division Three runners who are able to just 1360 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:45,840 hey, it's the distance that you're racing against, not 1361 01:12:45,840 --> 01:12:49,440 necessarily like your past self. So it's it's really, really cool 1362 01:12:49,440 --> 01:12:51,360 to see. So when's the taper start? 1363 01:12:51,800 --> 01:12:54,360 Who? Probably at the end of this week 1364 01:12:54,360 --> 01:12:59,040 Yeah 'cause we're three weeks from yesterday and so yeah, this 1365 01:12:59,040 --> 01:13:01,360 will be the last week. I think this week will be about 1366 01:13:01,360 --> 01:13:03,600 120 ish. So I guess technically a small 1367 01:13:03,600 --> 01:13:07,680 drop in mileage and then yeah, the last two weeks is when we 1368 01:13:07,680 --> 01:13:12,040 really, yeah. I usually for us 10 days out is 1369 01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:15,240 the big tapers when we really start to freshen up. 1370 01:13:15,320 --> 01:13:17,920 I also hate the taper like I don't like it. 1371 01:13:17,960 --> 01:13:21,640 I'd rather, yeah, I just too much energy, you know, like I'd, 1372 01:13:21,720 --> 01:13:24,920 I'd rather feel miserable and tired running 140. 1373 01:13:26,440 --> 01:13:30,040 But yeah, yeah, 10 days out is the real taper for us. 1374 01:13:30,080 --> 01:13:32,200 But we'll start to freshen the legs up. 1375 01:13:32,200 --> 01:13:37,520 I think this weekend's the last hardish long tempo. 1376 01:13:37,520 --> 01:13:41,240 And then it all gets easier from here until until race day. 1377 01:13:42,200 --> 01:13:45,960 Well, best of luck in these final weeks and excited to see 1378 01:13:45,960 --> 01:13:47,480 the race you put together in Boston. 1379 01:13:48,200 --> 01:13:49,400 Awesome. Thank you so much. 1380 01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:52,880 Right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1381 01:13:53,160 --> 01:13:55,880 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1382 01:13:55,880 --> 01:13:58,600 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1383 01:13:59,120 --> 01:14:01,960 A big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair and to everyone 1384 01:14:01,960 --> 01:14:04,960 behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Mag Podcast happen. 1385 01:14:05,480 --> 01:14:07,400 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 1386 01:14:07,400 --> 01:14:11,280 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 1387 01:14:11,280 --> 01:14:13,160 read every single one. You can find 1388 01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:17,000 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@citiusmag.com and you can follow along across 1389 01:14:17,000 --> 01:14:18,560 all of Citius Mag's social channels. 1390 01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:20,880 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.