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Check it all out at 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 xendurance.com. Code Sidious for 25% off your 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,280 first order. What's up everyone? 44 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 You are listening to the CDs Mag podcast. 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,080 I'm your host Chris Chavez, and every week we go beyond the 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,760 results to bring you conversations with the biggest 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,160 names on the track, the roads and behind the scenes. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,440 From world class athletes and coaches to innovators shaping 49 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,600 the sport. If it's happening on the track, 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,520 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 51 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,040 deep dives into the moments that define careers, and the kind of 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,000 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,200 So let's get into it because we love track and. 54 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,280 Field. My guest for today's episode is 55 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:55,520 Clayton Young. He's back after the 2026 Boston 56 00:02:55,520 --> 00:02:59,080 Marathon, which was his 10th career marathon and this is his 57 00:02:59,080 --> 00:03:03,920 10th appearance on this podcast. He ran 2 hours, 5 minutes and 41 58 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:07,600 seconds for 11th place in the fastest and deepest field that 59 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:11,160 the race has ever seen and it's 130 year history. 60 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,080 That time makes him one of the five fastest American men in 61 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:18,040 marathon history on all courses. What makes this performance 62 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:20,840 worth a full conversation is everything that went into it. 63 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:25,360 We had Clayton on the podcast about a month ago and he shared 64 00:03:25,360 --> 00:03:28,520 a bit about how he came into this Boston build off of a foot 65 00:03:28,520 --> 00:03:31,920 and ankle injury that had kept him cross training for 16 weeks. 66 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:36,040 He switched sponsors to Brooks and had ten weeks of actual 67 00:03:36,040 --> 00:03:38,840 running and training. Then he made the decision 68 00:03:38,840 --> 00:03:42,760 consciously and explicitly to compete in this race, not just 69 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,960 show up and let the circumstances be. 70 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,880 The. Excuse, but he wanted to play to 71 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:51,480 win and the result was a 2 1/2 minute PR and a Wellesley 72 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,160 College High 5 moment that went absolutely viral. 73 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:58,000 In this conversation we go deep on the psychology of that 74 00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:01,880 decision. The NI Stone mantra of fresh 75 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:05,720 flow, fearless and faith. The Intel that Clayton gathered 76 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,640 from Rory Linklater the night before that told him exactly how 77 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:11,480 the race was going to go. The power data that said he was 78 00:04:11,480 --> 00:04:15,120 1 to 2% less powerful than the year before, and what it felt 79 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,800 like to relive Chicago 2023 while dueling Ryan Ford in the 80 00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,800 closing miles of Boston. We also get into the top 10 81 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,520 streak that Boston broke. What Clayton thinks about his 82 00:04:24,520 --> 00:04:29,120 spot American Marathoning's pecking order ahead of LA 2028 83 00:04:29,520 --> 00:04:33,200 and the sunglasses saga involving my own pair of shades. 84 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,160 So without further ado, I'm so delighted to welcome back 85 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:49,720 Clayton Young. All right, now back for the 10th 86 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,240 time on the CDs Mag podcast. I just went and looked it up 87 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:55,280 right before you jumped on this call. 88 00:04:55,280 --> 00:04:58,440 Clayton Young rejoins the show. I feel at this point, you know, 89 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:01,640 I joke around and I say, yeah, Connor's a recurring Co host. 90 00:05:01,840 --> 00:05:03,920 You now, I guess get that title as well. 91 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:06,840 You're a recurring Co host of the The CDs Mag Podcast. 92 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,440 What an honor. And honestly, it's kind of funny 93 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:12,320 you say it's the 10th time because Boston was my 10th 94 00:05:12,320 --> 00:05:15,000 marathon and I didn't know that till like a couple weeks leading 95 00:05:15,000 --> 00:05:16,520 into it and I finally did the math. 96 00:05:17,360 --> 00:05:20,800 So yeah, 10th, 10th on the Sidious Mag and 10th marathon 97 00:05:20,800 --> 00:05:22,520 makes sense. Love it. 98 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:25,720 And now I get to introduce you as a 2O5 guy. 99 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:29,600 Remarkable run at the 2026 Boston Marathon. 100 00:05:29,840 --> 00:05:34,640 Two O 541 was the official time, 11th place overall. 101 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:37,360 We had you on the podcast a month ago around sort of like 102 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:40,960 your Brooks announcement, but even at that point, to think 103 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,960 that you'd be walking away from this race with this big of APR 104 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:49,920 in the fastest and deepest Boston Marathon in history, I 105 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,480 feel like it wasn't even like a thought at that point. 106 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:55,120 I'm still wrapping my head around it, to be honest. 107 00:05:55,240 --> 00:06:00,880 I think yeah, a month ago, six weeks ago, two months ago for 108 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,560 sure It was a lot of unknowns. It was a lot of day by day. 109 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,120 It was a lot of like, don't, don't get hyper focused on on 110 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:12,000 the outcome or the result yet because honestly, it was just 111 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,080 kind of intimidating and daunting to think about that. 112 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,520 Like what what was going to happen and how I was going to be 113 00:06:17,520 --> 00:06:23,000 able to stack up and compete. And yeah, so like to have it 114 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,960 finally, not finally, but to have it come together is 115 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,800 honestly quite the miracle, to be honest. 116 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:35,280 Like it's like, whoa, like I all things considered between, you 117 00:06:35,280 --> 00:06:38,920 know, the injury, the negotiations and like just short 118 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:44,920 build, like very I've I've got to be super happy about it. 119 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,920 And in fact, even coach Ice Stone joked right after I 120 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,040 crossed the finish line and I came up to him, He's like, he's 121 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,880 like, OK, ten week builds from here on out. 122 00:06:51,880 --> 00:06:56,480 Like he was just joking with me on how how yeah, this may be a 123 00:06:56,480 --> 00:06:59,400 new recipe for the future, but I honestly, I don't even want to 124 00:06:59,400 --> 00:07:00,400 lean into that. I don't want to. 125 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:07,200 That mentality is and that approach is a, a fool's approach 126 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:11,000 to my if I get high on that, then I don't. 127 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:14,680 It's a confident, it's a cocky approach and I'm not, I'm not 128 00:07:14,680 --> 00:07:16,360 ready to embrace that. OK. 129 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:19,960 So the good part about catching up a month ago is that we went 130 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,400 through just sort of the injury and at that point what the build 131 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:25,840 had looked like. So we have all of that context 132 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,160 on that episode that dropped on March 19th. 133 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,160 And so I kind of want to pick it up from there. 134 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:34,520 It was what were you questioning in the last like, month of 135 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:38,840 training and what answers did the workouts and the runs 136 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,200 eventually give you before getting to Boston? 137 00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:46,280 Yeah, I think the last 3-4 weeks were kind of a scary mentality 138 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:52,240 to be honest, because I realized at that point that I had gotten 139 00:07:52,240 --> 00:07:57,440 into enough shape to compete and I had the choice. 140 00:07:57,440 --> 00:07:59,760 Like I had the perfect storyline, the perfect narrative 141 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:02,520 to kind of go into Boston and have some fun and walk away and 142 00:08:02,520 --> 00:08:06,960 just chalk it all up to injury and, and sponsor change and all 143 00:08:06,960 --> 00:08:07,840 this stuff. Like, right. 144 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:09,640 Like I, I had all the excuses in the book. 145 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:15,920 And in a way it was like, no, like I like it was this constant 146 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:19,960 reminder of like, OK, how can I be true to myself? 147 00:08:19,960 --> 00:08:22,080 How can I be respectful of the fitness that I've gained? 148 00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,480 And like this opportunity, like this opportunity that I've been 149 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:29,080 given to compete and it, you know, there's often this 150 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:35,679 mentality and sports psychology of you either you either play to 151 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,120 win or you play not to lose, right? 152 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:41,919 And I kind of had to embrace this idea, OK, I'm going to, I'm 153 00:08:42,000 --> 00:08:44,640 going to play to win, right? I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm 154 00:08:44,640 --> 00:08:46,200 going to show up. I'm going to give it my best. 155 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:50,160 Like I've come this far, essentially taking every day 156 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:55,080 with the mindset of like, OK, what can I do to get healthy, to 157 00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:58,160 be fast? And it, it honestly was a very 158 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,440 refreshing build because it took a lot of the thinking out of it. 159 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,040 You know, off times you're worried about burnout, you're 160 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,040 worried about, you know, periodization and timing and, 161 00:09:08,560 --> 00:09:12,040 and, and getting fit too soon. And this time it was just like 162 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,600 every decision I made throughout my entire day was just maxed, 163 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,640 just like, OK, what can I do to recover and what can I do to get 164 00:09:19,640 --> 00:09:21,720 faster? And then those last three weeks 165 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,080 or where you're like, OK, am I going to commit to this to the 166 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:27,400 end? Because it happened like I got 167 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:29,920 fit and it was like, OK, am I going to commit all the way to 168 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:31,680 race day? Am I going to commit on race 169 00:09:31,680 --> 00:09:34,480 day? That that was an interesting 170 00:09:34,480 --> 00:09:35,800 mentality to kind of work through. 171 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:42,480 But ultimately, like, yeah, it, it was more so putting my ego on 172 00:09:42,480 --> 00:09:47,200 the line and putting like my and yeah, telling the world more or 173 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,840 less like, hey, I got in shape. Guess what? 174 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,000 It happened. I guess the the ego comes from 175 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:58,720 the fact that just in sport, right, like an elite athlete's 176 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:04,440 identity and like performance or becomes just so fused together 177 00:10:04,440 --> 00:10:06,840 like your past history. And at this point, like you're 178 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:09,560 coming into Boston as an Olympian, you're one of the most 179 00:10:09,560 --> 00:10:11,920 consistent American marathoners out there. 180 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,400 And so that part of you like your identity just doesn't 181 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:18,400 necessarily go away. But you could have, like you 182 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:21,760 said, shown up to this race. Is the happy to be here Clayton 183 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:26,720 the I was injured and I'm, you know, just glad to be part of 184 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:29,120 this year's race and showcase like my new sponsor. 185 00:10:29,120 --> 00:10:33,080 But that wasn't necessarily it. So we know how much of those 186 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,160 other previous, I guess like Clayton's The Olympian, the 187 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:38,720 consistent marathon, or do you think you brought with you to 188 00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:42,240 Boston this time around and you know that injured Clayton didn't 189 00:10:42,240 --> 00:10:44,400 seem to appear at all? It was an interesting 190 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:46,960 discussion, especially when you put it in parallel to to Connor 191 00:10:46,960 --> 00:10:50,360 Manse's decision, right? Like his decision not to race, 192 00:10:51,560 --> 00:10:55,520 you know, hinged off of this respect for his competition, 193 00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:58,280 respect for the distance that the fact that, you know, when he 194 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,800 shows up, he's going to show up 110%, you know, to, to win the 195 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,760 thing. And here I was, you know, hoping 196 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:09,880 that I could get there, but I wasn't, I was still unsure about 197 00:11:09,880 --> 00:11:11,480 like, yeah, where my fitness was. 198 00:11:11,480 --> 00:11:15,080 And, and yeah, there's this, there's as an elite athlete, you 199 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,960 kind of, you know, you build this brand, this idea of like 200 00:11:17,960 --> 00:11:21,640 you said, The Olympian, the person that's always top ten, 201 00:11:21,640 --> 00:11:25,440 the Mr. Consistent, like, and it's like, oh man, am I going to 202 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:29,720 put that on the line? Like am I really going to kind 203 00:11:29,720 --> 00:11:33,720 of risk that a little bit? And you know, I'm still 204 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,000 undecided on like, and, and you also got to realize like with 205 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,400 these race directors and the races themselves, like you want 206 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,600 to, like I said, like you want to respect the fact that they've 207 00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,720 invited you and you don't want to show up just for a paycheck. 208 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:48,800 Like you want to show up to perform. 209 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:54,400 And so I, I was very aware of that and realized that like 210 00:11:55,120 --> 00:11:57,400 everything that everyone was betting on from a Clayton 211 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,360 standpoint, from like an Olympian top 10 finisher, you 212 00:12:00,360 --> 00:12:01,960 know, will change qualifier, stuff like that. 213 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,720 Like I still wanted to maintain that in Boston. 214 00:12:04,720 --> 00:12:09,920 And it's a tricky balance, But I think I don't know, we'll see 215 00:12:09,920 --> 00:12:12,480 how negotiations go for fall marathons, but I think I did 216 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:17,920 good enough. And I, I all I can say is that 217 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:24,280 I, I gave it my all and and that's take it or leave it. 218 00:12:25,320 --> 00:12:28,880 So coach Iceland has coached you through so much, I mean, dating 219 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:33,120 back to college and now just sort of like all these highs and 220 00:12:33,120 --> 00:12:35,560 even injuries that have been lows in the past. 221 00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,000 What did sort of that relationship look like in this 222 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:43,320 build where like what? What is it that he gave you that 223 00:12:43,320 --> 00:12:48,640 you couldn't give yourself on the more mental side of things? 224 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,680 Because you talked about sports psychology a little bit and I 225 00:12:50,680 --> 00:12:54,040 feel like he must have had to have played a role in getting 226 00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:55,920 you to the right place this time around. 227 00:12:56,440 --> 00:12:59,040 Yeah, I feel like the early months were very much like 228 00:12:59,680 --> 00:13:05,760 reassuring me a lot of times, you know, when I was doing these 229 00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:08,720 workouts and I was splitting well over 5 minutes per mile 230 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,480 clear off my marathon pace, He was just like, it's just effort 231 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,000 today, Like just go off of effort. 232 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:20,760 Like reassuring me that that work is work that that I got 233 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:22,960 benefits today. And in some ways we kind of joke 234 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:25,760 that I got the most benefits out of a lot of workouts because I 235 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,280 was the most out of shape compared to some of the athletes 236 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:30,880 that I was training with. And so there's a little bit of 237 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,320 that. And then towards the end, it's 238 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:37,080 kind of this installation of, of faith and belief in me that I 239 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,240 can compete. And, you know, even the, the day 240 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:43,600 before the race, I, you know, sat down with coach and had my 241 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:47,440 classic interview with him. And, you know, he gave me his 242 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:49,880 mantra of, of what he thought I could do. 243 00:13:50,920 --> 00:13:52,960 It really came down like I kind of had a couple of frank 244 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:56,000 questions with him. I was like, coach, like, do you 245 00:13:56,000 --> 00:13:59,880 really think I'm in as good a shape as I was last year? 246 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:04,880 And like, do you, do you think, you know, like that's such a 247 00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,440 hard and loaded question for a coach that is supposed to just 248 00:14:07,440 --> 00:14:08,880 instill believe it's you at that moment. 249 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:10,800 But I really needed him to be honest with me. 250 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,440 You know, I'm a very honest, data-driven person. 251 00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:15,200 And so I, I was like, coach, I can handle it. 252 00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:18,800 Like should I, should I go with the lead pack? 253 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,880 Should I not like, what do you what are you really getting a 254 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,280 vibe and a pulse on? And, and you know, what is the 255 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,480 governor essentially for the first half? 256 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:34,600 If if they do take off and, and even just yeah, the the amazing 257 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,960 thing about coach Ice Stone is that he sees you as a whole. 258 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:41,880 He sees you from, you know, the beginning of your career till 259 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,240 now. And, you know, he really leaned 260 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,520 into the fact that I had a lot of experience and that that 261 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:51,040 those last three or four weeks did come together. 262 00:14:51,360 --> 00:14:53,520 In fact, I remember a conversation I was having with 263 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,360 with Connor going into the race. And he's like, yeah, I was in 264 00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:59,800 Coach Iceland's office and he was pretty frank to say that, 265 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:01,640 you know, you weren't looking good all Bill, but you pulled it 266 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,440 all together the last two or three weeks. 267 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:07,240 And I love that. I love that because, you know, I 268 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:09,160 thrive off of, you know, honesty. 269 00:15:09,160 --> 00:15:13,320 And and while Coach might not say that to my face, you know, I 270 00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:15,840 I love that he and Connor can have a conversation about where 271 00:15:15,840 --> 00:15:19,920 I'm at. And yeah, that, you know, he 272 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,560 thought just even a belief from Connor, from Coach Ice Stone 273 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:26,840 that yeah, it all came together was wasn't all I needed. 274 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:29,840 Wait, so in that final conversation, what did, what did 275 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:33,120 you say go? Yeah, he, he gave me the green 276 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,840 light to go with the pack. I mean, we, we that whole 277 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,440 weekend, you know, I'd had conversations with other 278 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:42,360 athletes, specifically even with Rory Linklater about like, hey, 279 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,800 you know, last year we had CC Lemma, we had Connor man's, we 280 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,960 had these, these, you know, these dogs that we're going to 281 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,080 take it out. And this year, you know, 282 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:54,480 Connor's gone, CC is gone. Like, and I, I, I asked Pat 283 00:15:54,480 --> 00:15:56,040 Tiernan at dinner. I was like, Hey, you were the 284 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:57,640 one that took it out last time. Are you going to take it out? 285 00:15:57,640 --> 00:16:00,480 And he said no. And, and then I asked Rory. 286 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,280 I said, hey, Rory, like, I know you're really fit. 287 00:16:02,280 --> 00:16:03,240 You're feeling really good right now. 288 00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:04,840 Like, is anybody going to take it out? 289 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:08,800 And like, without missing a beat, he said, he said, Oh yeah, 290 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,680 that first mile, like I'm breaking 4:30, that's a Guinea 291 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:12,720 mile. Like, of course I'm going to 292 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,840 take it out. And so I knew from that 293 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:18,040 conversation that it was going to go out hot. 294 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:20,920 And then I also knew Coach Eistone. 295 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:24,160 I don't know, you could say maybe you shouldn't have shared 296 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,440 this with me, but you know, Coach Eiston was talking with 297 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:29,320 Rory and and Rory was like, Oh yeah, all gas, no brakes. 298 00:16:29,320 --> 00:16:33,080 Like so we, we knew, we knew that he was going to send it and 299 00:16:33,440 --> 00:16:37,480 that there were, you know, just with the weather and I guess the 300 00:16:38,160 --> 00:16:41,760 optimism of what I felt over sharing all these meals with all 301 00:16:41,760 --> 00:16:43,800 these elite athletes. I just felt like it was going to 302 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:47,320 go. And I we know you kind of decide 303 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:50,160 if it, if it went as fast as last year like we, we felt like 304 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,720 I could hang if it got much closer to 61 flat through half 305 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:58,960 and and below like then yeah, it might be good to re evaluate and 306 00:16:59,120 --> 00:17:03,240 be a little bit more patient. So that that was kind of what 307 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,359 conversations look like. He gave you 3. 308 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:10,640 Words before the race which were fresh flow and fearless. 309 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Walk me through, I guess, what each of those actually meant to 310 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:16,800 you. I guess standing on the start 311 00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,119 line. Fresh I mean, I think he wanted 312 00:17:20,119 --> 00:17:22,839 to lean into the idea that this was only a 10 week bill that 313 00:17:22,839 --> 00:17:27,720 came off of 16 to 18 weeks of just cross training and you 314 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,400 know, injury cycle after injury cycle. 315 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,480 And so leaning into that freshness, the fact that I would 316 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:35,400 feel fresher than most. It is kind of interesting. 317 00:17:35,400 --> 00:17:38,800 You look at all my marathon builds and you know, I've 318 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,280 they've been 16 plus week builds are 12 like coming off of other 319 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:46,960 marathons 12 week builds. And so this was pretty unique 320 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:50,040 and I did feel pretty fresh throughout this build. 321 00:17:50,040 --> 00:17:54,560 But at the same time, actually, you know, I take that back, I 322 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:57,800 didn't feel fresh at all distilled because I had no base 323 00:17:57,800 --> 00:18:01,280 like, and I was pushing mileage and my body was just sore for a 324 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:04,360 very, very long time. And one thing I really leaned 325 00:18:04,360 --> 00:18:06,920 into is this idea of just being very gritty. 326 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:12,040 Like I had to be very gritty for months on months with no promise 327 00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,960 of reward or result really. Like workouts were not flashy. 328 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:22,920 Mileage was hard. My body was just sore and but 329 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:26,320 there was this idea that that condensed training like from a 330 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,160 lifetime freshness, you could say instead of a lifetime 331 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:32,920 fitness was at play. And so that was that was the 332 00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:35,600 first cue is like, and I think it's kind of this idea of like, 333 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,840 OK, if I'm fresh, then I can go out that first third of the 334 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:40,080 marathon and kind of float and be relaxed through it. 335 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:44,360 And that goes into the like flow, like flow through the flow 336 00:18:44,360 --> 00:18:48,480 through the hills, kind of roll through the punches of what are 337 00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:52,520 the surges. And then fearless like we, we 338 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:54,720 really wanted to capitalize on that last 10K. 339 00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:58,560 The year prior, I was through with the lead pack through like 340 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:04,240 mile 19 and I kind of hung for a little bit and then my calf 341 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:11,600 cramped incredibly bad and I kind of had to play, I don't 342 00:19:11,600 --> 00:19:14,720 know, emergency for like about a mile or so before I felt like I 343 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:18,080 could push it again. So, yeah, we wanted to be kind 344 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:21,680 of fearless that last 10K and and then at the very end he 345 00:19:21,680 --> 00:19:25,720 said, OK, now couple it all up with faith, multiplied it all by 346 00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:27,560 faith. And he kind of that came to him 347 00:19:27,560 --> 00:19:29,480 last minute actually while we were in our meeting. 348 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,000 You know, there's been a lot of faith this build. 349 00:19:32,080 --> 00:19:35,080 There's been a lot of faith in and hoping that I would be 350 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:39,000 healthy and faith that I'd get fit and in the race plan itself 351 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:42,240 and going with the lead pack and hoping that my legs would hold 352 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,360 out, you know, as I was flowing through the hills and fearless 353 00:19:46,360 --> 00:19:49,480 towards the end. And so that that's that's the 354 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,360 mantra that was the the coach ice stoneism that he gave this 355 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:54,680 year. Interesting that the word 356 00:19:55,120 --> 00:19:58,960 fearless, I think kind of like pops in here because we did have 357 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:01,640 a little bit of a conversation started that we floated on 358 00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:06,520 Instagram, which was Scott Fowl's, you know, take that he 359 00:20:06,520 --> 00:20:08,360 he wrote on Twitter. This likely contradicts opinions 360 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:10,240 I had in the past, but I'm marinating on the take that 361 00:20:10,240 --> 00:20:13,760 super shoes may end up being one of the worst things ever in 362 00:20:13,760 --> 00:20:16,080 terms of watching interesting and compelling elite level 363 00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:18,440 marathons. And so he fleshes out his 364 00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:22,200 thoughts a bit more. I think like comment section is 365 00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:24,600 maybe 80% against Scott right here. 366 00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:27,600 But that's because I think most people just kind of see the 367 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:30,720 first slide, don't read through most of it and, you know, allow 368 00:20:30,720 --> 00:20:33,560 for his point to to marinate a bit. 369 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,480 They just see super shoes bad and then attack the old man who 370 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,160 used to run 209. But in his one of the final 371 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,280 points that he makes is that look at the guys in the 10th to 372 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:48,520 15 range. You're you're in there. 373 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,680 You were 11 for them. Monday was a day with a lot of 374 00:20:52,680 --> 00:20:54,640 small, manageable positive splits. 375 00:20:55,360 --> 00:20:58,120 Now there's now there's less downside for everyone, which 376 00:20:58,120 --> 00:21:00,640 means it requires less bravery individually. 377 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:03,080 That used to be something I really respected when someone 378 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:07,040 went out over their head and faded but survived the end. 379 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,920 Now I don't really feel anything about those performances. 380 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:12,720 And it's interesting because that's the point of the race 381 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,640 where sort of you're saying that fearlessness needs to show up. 382 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:20,720 And so counter, I guess Scott's point a little bit of like, no, 383 00:21:20,720 --> 00:21:23,880 actually like this fearlessness and bravery thing that we're 384 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,080 talking about is just takes on a different sort of look. 385 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,600 Yeah, yeah, I loved Scott's take and kind of diving through it. 386 00:21:31,280 --> 00:21:34,360 It's because I felt it on both sides. 387 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:37,160 I felt like I was the athlete that was able to send it and, 388 00:21:37,680 --> 00:21:42,120 and kind of not be punished for it because I had a short build 389 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,760 and maybe my legs weren't tempered and I felt my legs 390 00:21:44,760 --> 00:21:46,600 earlier in the marathon and I probably should have. 391 00:21:47,120 --> 00:21:51,240 But then I also felt like I was validated by Scott because here 392 00:21:51,240 --> 00:21:54,320 I am 10th marathon. I ran 130 plus miles a week like 393 00:21:54,320 --> 00:21:59,120 I prepared and was fearless to be able to withstand that last 394 00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:03,760 10K right? Like I I, I was what I was going 395 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:05,280 to be one of the athletes that didn't die. 396 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:07,680 And in a way, like, you know, how much higher could I have 397 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:10,360 placed if there weren't super shoes in the game? 398 00:22:10,360 --> 00:22:13,360 And you know, I was, I was having a conversation with Jared 399 00:22:13,360 --> 00:22:14,960 Ward about this even just yesterday. 400 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,960 And Scott Fobles take and he even brought up the fact like, 401 00:22:17,960 --> 00:22:21,320 yeah, it's it's incredible that these young athletes with big 402 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:27,000 engines but not tempered legs are able to be instant offense 403 00:22:27,200 --> 00:22:30,560 in the marathon. So Charles, yeah, the Charles 6 404 00:22:30,560 --> 00:22:33,920 right. Like he, you know, is putting in 405 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:37,040 the miles, don't get me wrong, but like he didn't have to go to 406 00:22:37,040 --> 00:22:40,040 the leg tempering process that the Scott Fobles of the Jared 407 00:22:40,040 --> 00:22:42,760 Warts did. And, and yeah, I, I raced 1 408 00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:44,640 marathon without super shoes, you could say. 409 00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:50,760 But after that, I've, I've been lucky and, and yeah, I kind of 410 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:52,880 fall out of Scott Fobles category and Jared warts 411 00:22:52,880 --> 00:22:55,000 category. And, but at the same time, like 412 00:22:55,000 --> 00:22:58,040 I, I pay my dues a little bit. Like I've suffered the last 10K 413 00:22:58,040 --> 00:23:03,280 of many, many a marathon. And yeah, but so, yeah, I could 414 00:23:03,280 --> 00:23:08,400 see, you know, I, I can both help and hurt Scott's case in 415 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:09,960 both, you know, my marathon build. 416 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,960 But then also, you know, I, I do believe that I've gotten really 417 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,760 good at, you know, eco mode, like don't die mode and, and 418 00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:20,840 being able to, to cruise it to the end better than most. 419 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,840 But yeah, it's, it's a, it's a fun take to think about. 420 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,240 And I do, you know, Jared and I were also talking about, OK, 421 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:33,000 well, OK, the marathon then is a different event and, you know, 422 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:37,000 it's just different than it, what used to be and that's OK. 423 00:23:37,360 --> 00:23:39,280 And so what's the new marathon event like? 424 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:42,960 Well, that's maybe, you know, the 50 milers and 100 milers 425 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:45,960 and, you know, maybe Scott just needs to move up in distance a 426 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,000 little bit and. Start watching a bit more trail 427 00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:50,480 and ultra racing I think at this point. 428 00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:53,800 Yeah, yeah. So maybe that's that's the 429 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,200 future of what the marathon used to be, right? 430 00:23:57,680 --> 00:24:01,680 For you, I guess in these races, like like so excitement, which 431 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:04,000 is sort of like the other part of it, like we're watching this 432 00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,560 unfold. And I, I generally do think like 433 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,680 Monday's race was exciting you in the driver's seat, right? 434 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:14,200 Like if we're making this analogy that we're in a 435 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:19,920 different era of F1 cars, like how exciting is it for you kind 436 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:24,320 of in the race? Yeah, I think I was really 437 00:24:24,320 --> 00:24:26,720 surprised with how the race played out in terms of there was 438 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,320 just so much shuffling, like so much like, like little 439 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:32,400 breakaways come back, little breakaways coming back. 440 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:34,760 And it was like a different group of breakaway almost every 441 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:35,960 time. It seemed at least a few 442 00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:41,200 different players. And I was surprised, you know, 443 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:46,880 to see John Career go flying by me and honk Hawk Down, the 444 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:49,160 Adidas athlete, I don't know his name, that took off and. 445 00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:51,360 Burhanu. For Hanu, thank you. 446 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:55,800 And like, yeah, I think it was interesting, but it does get 447 00:24:55,800 --> 00:25:00,360 pretty stale that last 10K because it's just a line. 448 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,120 And you're right. Like there isn't as much like 449 00:25:03,120 --> 00:25:05,800 this guy's, like this guy's running five 30s and this 450 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:08,440 person's closing in four 30s. And like, at what point is that 451 00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,040 inflection point where they cross? 452 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:12,400 You know, you probably used to get a lot more of that with 453 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,680 Scott Hawking people down at four 30s, right? 454 00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:19,000 And these people blowing up to five 30s and or worse, to be 455 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,160 honest. And yeah, it. 456 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,160 But that's not every marathon to like it all. 457 00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,120 I think same as F1, it depends on the course. 458 00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,320 Like in F1 just sort of there are just sort of certain courses 459 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,280 where like, oh, you can watch it and be like, this one's going to 460 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:38,560 be interesting for the first couple laps and then there's 461 00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:40,680 very few passes and position changes. 462 00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:44,360 And so I think what we've kind of landed in Boston, just the 463 00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:47,920 way John Career has executed the last two sort of races is that, 464 00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,200 yeah, I mean, in certain cases, I guess like the final five to 465 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,640 10K, those places might hold up until Boylston and then you get 466 00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:58,520 a little bit of extra movement. Yeah. 467 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:01,280 And I think, you know, this race probably ran a little bit short 468 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,960 with the weather and like the added tailwind, like we didn't 469 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,040 feel the tailwind at all, but like obviously it was there and 470 00:26:08,040 --> 00:26:12,080 there's less resistance running forward a few crosswinds. 471 00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:15,160 But like I do think, yeah, the race like from an effort 472 00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:17,800 standpoint ran a little bit short and so there was less, you 473 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:20,880 know, place changes towards the end. 474 00:26:21,360 --> 00:26:23,840 What's interesting too is like you look at my last 10K last 475 00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:27,640 year versus this year and my last 10K last year, like I I ran 476 00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:30,800 520 over heartbreak and then I was like in the four 50s a 477 00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,120 little bit. And then I faded to like the 478 00:26:32,120 --> 00:26:34,760 five O is five 10's the last couple miles. 479 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,800 And this one, like I was five O 5 over heartbreak, if I remember 480 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:39,840 right. And then I got back into the 481 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,080 four 40s and I was in the four 40s in the low four 50s for the 482 00:26:43,080 --> 00:26:45,680 rest of marathon. And yeah, whether that's like 483 00:26:45,680 --> 00:26:49,400 leg tempering or like the Brooks up here in elite sixes that like 484 00:26:49,680 --> 00:26:51,960 honestly can maybe withstand more pounding and protect my 485 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:55,880 body more in my ankle or maybe that's better nutrition. 486 00:26:55,880 --> 00:26:58,400 Or that's just the fact that I was with Ryan Ford and him and I 487 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:00,920 were working together better. Like there's a lot of factors 488 00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,040 that go into it and they probably all play a role. 489 00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:09,680 But for some reason, you know, maybe it's the freshness as 490 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,000 well. I was able to handle that last 491 00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:14,040 10K better than last year. You brought up Ryan Ford. 492 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,240 He's out there with you, I guess, in that last 10K. 493 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,920 Don't romanticize this for me. But like, does your mind go back 494 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:24,760 to Chicago 2023 where he's pacing you to the Olympic 495 00:27:24,760 --> 00:27:27,160 standard? And I guess like, what is it 496 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:28,400 about? I guess, like running with 497 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,960 someone that you've shared kind of like a previous breakthrough 498 00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:35,680 that changes maybe a little bit of the morale and chemistry of 499 00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,280 those final miles of her. Most times it's dread. 500 00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,560 But this this seems this feels a little better. 501 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:45,040 Yeah, definitely. You know, going up and through 502 00:27:45,040 --> 00:27:50,280 the the Newton hills, I could see the lineup of guys and I 503 00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:53,760 saw, you know, Ryan Ford was ahead of me for most of the 504 00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:55,680 race, like he was the one leading the pack. 505 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:58,560 And so I was really excited to see that he he was having a good 506 00:27:58,560 --> 00:27:59,760 day. Like I've always kept tabs on 507 00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,160 him and been really excited for him. 508 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:05,760 And yeah, one of the moves that I did make to finally close the 509 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,360 gap onto him was just like, OK, just think of Chicago 2023. 510 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:11,600 Just like get on him, let him handle the pace, like, just 511 00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,440 forget about it. And yeah, IA 100% relive that 512 00:28:15,440 --> 00:28:18,720 moment of Chicago 2023 in the middle of Boston. 513 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:21,040 And it was really like comforting, like, just like this 514 00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:23,680 is my only job is to stick on Ryan Ford, just like in Chicago 515 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:25,840 2023. And he'll, he'll bring me home. 516 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:29,000 And he kept a very honest pace. Like I owe that a lot to him. 517 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:32,120 And there were a few times when, you know, we would change 518 00:28:32,120 --> 00:28:34,480 positions and I would surge and, you know, I thought I'd break 519 00:28:34,480 --> 00:28:35,880 away from him. And then lo and behold, he 520 00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,760 passed me again. And we traded spots a few times. 521 00:28:39,760 --> 00:28:41,640 But like, I'm a big Ryan Ford fan. 522 00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,480 In fact, I, you know, when I was going through all my 523 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,760 negotiations, one of the visits that I took was to the on 524 00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,920 Athletics club. And I got to know Dathan and 525 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,840 Laura and Joe and and Ryan and and, and Helen. 526 00:28:56,280 --> 00:28:58,920 And it was just like fun to like see their Rd. crew. 527 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:03,520 And yeah, I think we we all dreamed about what it would be 528 00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,440 like for me to go to the OAC. And there was some really, 529 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,600 really appealing things about joining that program. 530 00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:10,840 And so they'll always have a soft spot in my heart. 531 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:13,720 They were very welcoming and very, like, excited about what 532 00:29:13,720 --> 00:29:17,080 could have been. And even before the race, like I 533 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:21,320 sat next to them in the tent and like, even Joe and I celebrated 534 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:24,480 the fact that we're both soon to teammates now. 535 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,240 And like, it's yeah. So get finding Ryan out there 536 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,800 was just another part of the whole weekend, to be honest. 537 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:35,400 And yeah, he's gritty. And it was, yeah, it's fun to 538 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:36,720 duel with him over the last little bit. 539 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,640 And, you know, even to turn around and to see that he was 540 00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:43,280 like, right there. Like, like I, I was both excited 541 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,480 for him and then both like, man, I got some work to do. 542 00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,400 Like they're closing the gap. I got to go. 543 00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,840 And. But yeah, Big Ryan fan this 544 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:51,880 episode of The City. Smack. 545 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:56,600 Podcast is supported by Wahoo. You've got 26.2. 546 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,720 Miles of work. Heartbreak Hill. 547 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:03,680 The Newton Hills that long grinding stretch from mile 16 to 548 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,480 20. You've studied the course. 549 00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:08,160 You've circled the date on the calendar. 550 00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:10,960 You've sacrificed the early mornings for long runs. 551 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:13,320 You've sacrificed your social plans. 552 00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:15,640 You've put in the work. But there's a difference between 553 00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,400 knowing a course and knowing a course. 554 00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:21,200 Have you felt? The. 555 00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,040 Gradient shift under your feet. Have you practice holding your 556 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,920 pace when the hill doesn't care about your goal time. 557 00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,320 With the Wahoo Kicker run, you can simulate the exact Boston or 558 00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:34,440 London Marathon course right in your own home. 559 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:36,640 Upload the GPX. File. 560 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:39,360 Into the Wahoo app and the kicker runs automatic grade 561 00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,280 control. Adjust your incline in real 562 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:45,200 time, mile by mile, climb by climb, descent by descent, 563 00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,560 exactly as it would feel when it matters most. 564 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,280 That's race day. Every hill rehearsed, every 565 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,280 crucial on course moment practice. 566 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:56,120 No guessing at all. That's not just training, that's 567 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,600 race specific preparation. And the kicker run doesn't stop 568 00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:00,960 there. You've also got the Run Free 569 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,040 mode, which uses sensors to automatically match the belt 570 00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:07,640 speed to your stride. No buttons, no interruptions, no 571 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:10,200 breaking your flow. You're not managing a machine in 572 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:13,040 that moment, you're just running the way running is supposed to 573 00:31:13,040 --> 00:31:14,920 feel. Kinect is with. 574 00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:17,520 For immersive course, accurate visuals that put you on the 575 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:21,320 road, or stay in the Wahoo app for structured workouts and 576 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:23,560 seamless tracking. The Kicker Run works with the 577 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:26,960 platforms that you already love, whether that's Zwift, Peloton, 578 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,000 Ketomap, and more. And right now, when you use Code 579 00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:33,760 Sidious at checkout, you'll get a free Kicker Headwind Smart 580 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,160 Fan. It's the fan that responds to 581 00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:38,640 your effort in real time, speeding up as your heart rate 582 00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:40,800 climbs and your pace pushes harder. 583 00:31:41,240 --> 00:31:45,240 Over 30 mph of airflow keeping you cool through every brutal 584 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,960 interval and every long run simulation. 585 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,640 The Wahoo Kicker run because race day shouldn't be the first 586 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:55,400 time that you've run the course. Check it out today at 587 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,800 wahoofitness.com and use Code Sidious at checkout for that 588 00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:03,960 free Kicker Headwind Smart Fan. Many thanks to Wahoo for coming 589 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:06,840 back on as a sponsor of the City of Smack Podcast. 590 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:13,320 This episode of the City of Smack. 591 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:15,080 Podcast is presented by. Lollipop. 592 00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:18,400 Because of course it is. I feel like everywhere I look 593 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,440 lately I'm seeing Lollipop. It's on all of my favorite 594 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:23,840 shows. I saw it on Traitors when the 595 00:32:23,840 --> 00:32:26,680 contestants were sitting around the mansion trying to decide who 596 00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:30,880 to vanish at the roundtable. 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They've got 19 different core 614 00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,520 flavors, each one with its own personality, but Tropical Punch 615 00:33:25,520 --> 00:33:29,200 is the one I keep reaching for. I genuinely drink one almost 616 00:33:29,360 --> 00:33:32,000 every day and I can feel the difference when I don't. 617 00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:35,760 If you haven't had Lollipop yet, grab a can and see what the hype 618 00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:38,240 is all about. Trust me, your taste buds and 619 00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,560 your gut will both be happy. The best deal on the Internet 620 00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:45,480 for Lollipop is 25% off for Citius Mag podcast listeners. 621 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:47,960 We love it when our listeners tag us in their stories with 622 00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:49,640 them. Support them because they 623 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:53,600 support us. Citius 25 at checkout for 25% 624 00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,840 off at drinklollipop.com. That's Citius 25 for 25% off at 625 00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:01,920 drinklollipop.com. I cannot believe how. 626 00:34:01,920 --> 00:34:03,800 Strong. Our partnership with Lollipop 627 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:05,960 has been over the years. We're going to keep this thing 628 00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:08,760 going. We've made it the runner's soda. 629 00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:14,199 You've brought up a couple times about how. 630 00:34:14,199 --> 00:34:18,400 Like you are a data guy, you trust the process. 631 00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:22,080 But, and this is something I think that even Mac pushed back 632 00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:26,080 on, you just sort of like to get that kind of competitor out of 633 00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,400 you when he was interviewing you for some of the the Brooks 634 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,000 videos that we did. But it's like the process and 635 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,120 the data can't really hold your hand like in a marathon, Like 636 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,040 that's got to be you. So what is trusting the process 637 00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,040 feel like, I guess in this year's race, like in the Boston 638 00:34:43,040 --> 00:34:46,000 Marathon when it was like the toughest, like what are some of 639 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,400 those moments that come to mind when you reflect on it to be 640 00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,360 like, oh, that was the toughest part where I was trusting in 641 00:34:52,360 --> 00:34:55,840 everything because it's a mix of your training, your faith, like 642 00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:58,800 just your discipline and all of that coming together on race 643 00:34:58,800 --> 00:35:01,080 day. What was really fascinating? 644 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:06,040 For me was probably mile 14 or so. 645 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:09,800 There was a point at which Richard Ringer bridge the gap to 646 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:14,280 the lead pack and I was kind of going with him and he bridged 647 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:17,400 the gap and I didn't I didn't make it in time right before in 648 00:35:17,400 --> 00:35:19,960 Newton Hills. And so then we hit the new nails 649 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:21,680 and it kind of the lead pack blew apart. 650 00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,680 And so it was a big line up. And what was really interesting 651 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:30,880 this year about the Newton Hills was that I got to run them my 652 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,160 way instead of the packs way. You know, the year prior it was 653 00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:39,360 the hills that broke me and that caused the calf cramp and they 654 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:43,240 were really tough. And this year, like I got to run 655 00:35:43,240 --> 00:35:45,880 the effort that I wanted up the hills, on the flats and down the 656 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:51,280 hills and then back up again. And I like I, I did so much 657 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:55,240 training on what we call the Jared Ward loop, which is this 658 00:35:55,240 --> 00:35:58,520 hilly loop out in Mapleton, UT that's runs by Jared's house. 659 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:05,000 And for all of our pickups we did, we, we would do the hilly 660 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,560 section. We would do not the hilly 661 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:09,680 section, the uphill section. There's an uphill section and 662 00:36:09,680 --> 00:36:12,600 downhill section. And so throughout, you know, the 663 00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:15,200 race day, as I was going to the Newton hills, I just kept 664 00:36:15,200 --> 00:36:20,400 reflecting on like how painful it was Funny is that the race is 665 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,880 never as painful as practice. It's painful in a different way. 666 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,720 Like you, you hurt so much more different at the end of the long 667 00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:30,440 run when you're doing a pickup, Like it's a different, like it's 668 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,160 a dull ache on race day. Where is it's like a VO2 like 669 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:39,600 lung burning, leg burning pain on, on like long run days. 670 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,560 And, and so it was really easy, honestly, to lean into the 671 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:44,920 Newton hills because they weren't as painful as anything 672 00:36:44,920 --> 00:36:46,640 that I'd done in practice up to that point. 673 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,160 And that was a point where I was like really reflecting on like, 674 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:51,400 OK, the process of what I did to prepare for that moment. 675 00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:55,040 I specifically chose the hills because I wanted to be strong on 676 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:57,000 the hills in Newton. And that's when I ended up 677 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:01,720 closing the gap on like Rory and, and, and Ryan and others. 678 00:37:01,720 --> 00:37:04,720 And it was good to run them my way. 679 00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:09,160 It was really like, it felt, it felt good to get over heartbreak 680 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,040 and to like be able to still move. 681 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:14,920 And yeah, yeah. One thing that was really 682 00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:19,280 interesting, as well as I, I spent a lot of time kind of 683 00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:23,440 debriefing with the stride team. They're the foot pods that I 684 00:37:23,440 --> 00:37:27,000 wear on my shoes that give me power data, which is a measure 685 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,360 of effort. And what's fascinating about 686 00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:32,800 that is they broke down the race into flat sections, uphill 687 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,960 sections and downhill sections. And based off of what I did the 688 00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:39,080 year prior, they could say, OK, on the flat sections you usually 689 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:43,320 put out like 395 watts and on uphill sections usually put out 690 00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,840 405 watts. And then on, you know, downhill 691 00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:49,200 sections, you're like 385 watts or something like that. 692 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,360 Anyway. So we could then break down the 693 00:37:51,360 --> 00:37:55,600 entire race and kind of see, OK, how can we level this out a 694 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,480 little bit? Like how can I even effort this 695 00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,320 a little bit more across all of the race? 696 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,920 But one thing that was really fascinating actually was like a 697 00:38:02,920 --> 00:38:06,480 Dave or two before the race, as they send over a bunch of this 698 00:38:06,480 --> 00:38:09,880 data and this analysis, They're like based off of our research, 699 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:17,000 like you're probably, you know, 1 to 2% less powerful than last 700 00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:21,080 year, which you can think of it as like, why in the world would 701 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:23,960 would someone tell you that going into a marathon, right? 702 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:26,200 Like, why would someone say that to you? 703 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:30,640 But like, big kudos to the Stride team for, you know, us 704 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:33,760 having a relationship that's deep enough and me understanding 705 00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:35,840 and be able to process the data deep enough to be able to 706 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:38,160 understand. OK, I see that. 707 00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:41,600 Yes, I'm probably 1 to 2% less powerful than the year prior 708 00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,080 short build injury, lots of factors. 709 00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,200 But like what went into that assumption? 710 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,840 Like what was it? And as we kind of broke it down, 711 00:38:50,840 --> 00:38:56,040 we realized that, you know, these year prior, years prior, 712 00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:59,320 you know, my pickups were two, 3-4 miles late in the long run. 713 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:03,520 And of course, if you're running 2-3 or four miles, your power 714 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:06,520 output's going to be higher as opposed to this year's build 715 00:39:07,000 --> 00:39:11,400 when I was running like 5-6 mile pickups, you know, you're going 716 00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:12,960 to pace it a little bit more carefully. 717 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:15,520 You're not going to be as powerful, have as high of an 718 00:39:15,520 --> 00:39:19,120 average power throughout. And so that like going through 719 00:39:19,120 --> 00:39:21,920 the assumptions and recognizing, OK, yes, like, of course I'm 720 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,480 going to be less powerful at the end of the pickups when we're 721 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:27,920 comparing apples to apples across these big workouts and 722 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:32,000 things like that. And anyway, it was really 723 00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:36,320 fascinating then to like get on the course and to go through 724 00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:39,440 these hilly sections and to recognize like, oh, like, I can 725 00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:41,880 still be powerful. I don't have to be as powerful 726 00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,880 through the uphill sections. I can be more powerful through 727 00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:47,760 the downhill sections to kind of even effort this a little bit 728 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,840 better. And it was kind of fun to like 729 00:39:50,840 --> 00:39:54,000 break that down with them. And, and more than anything, 730 00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:56,760 like kind of the same relationship I have with coach, 731 00:39:56,800 --> 00:39:59,160 right? Like coach, tell me if I'm fit 732 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:02,760 or not, like just tell me or like stride, what is the data 733 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:05,080 really say? That way I can have all the 734 00:40:05,080 --> 00:40:06,720 answers. I can process it. 735 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,360 I can understand the assumptions behind the data or even coaches, 736 00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,320 you know, advice. And then ultimately that leaves 737 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:15,920 it up to me. Like it gives me the power to 738 00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:17,760 make the decision and to be the better athlete. 739 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:19,960 I feel like people are jealous of you of. 740 00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:22,960 Just being able to have so many other things to think about 741 00:40:22,960 --> 00:40:25,840 other than just sort of like how the races unfolding in the 742 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:26,920 moment. Like you could just find 743 00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:29,480 yourself distracted all throughout the race or just 744 00:40:29,480 --> 00:40:31,440 having all of this data to parse through. 745 00:40:32,600 --> 00:40:35,200 Yeah, I mean there. Is like a lot of it comes in the 746 00:40:35,200 --> 00:40:37,680 reflection though, like it's not like I'm looking at this data 747 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:42,600 very much throughout the race. I'm mostly looking at just my, 748 00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,200 my split per mile and the clocks on the course. 749 00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:46,880 And then it's like an internal gauge. 750 00:40:46,880 --> 00:40:49,400 But you can you can train that, you can train that internal 751 00:40:49,400 --> 00:40:53,880 gauge and that's where it comes becomes useful and not 752 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,680 distracting on race day data. Yes, I think there is a point 753 00:40:58,680 --> 00:41:02,480 like there are certain races and courses where I think you know. 754 00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:05,840 Maybe falling heart? Rate or pace or power can be 755 00:41:05,840 --> 00:41:08,080 valuable. But like I think if you train 756 00:41:08,080 --> 00:41:13,160 the instinct, if you train your body and practice based off of 757 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:16,000 this data, then. You can. 758 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,040 You can. Just really execute on race day. 759 00:41:18,120 --> 00:41:21,480 You don't have to be tied or married to the data, it just 760 00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:24,840 it's to optimize training. And. 761 00:41:24,840 --> 00:41:29,240 Performance instead of it distracting on race day. 762 00:41:29,240 --> 00:41:31,720 That's how I see her. So then what gave you? 763 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,560 Permission or I'm glad you brought me back to Mile 14 764 00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:37,320 because I want to go a little bit before that. 765 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:43,960 But obviously you went viral for high fiving all of these fans 766 00:41:44,040 --> 00:41:48,160 like in Wellesley. What got into you? 767 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,120 I guess to allow yourself to have that moment. 768 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:51,720 Funny, I had. I had totally. 769 00:41:51,720 --> 00:41:55,760 Forgotten about that moment until well after the race when I 770 00:41:55,760 --> 00:41:58,840 finally saw the video. I, I, I'd forgotten about it. 771 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,960 And it's even funny when you watch the video back, like I, I 772 00:42:02,960 --> 00:42:06,120 beeline it like I, it's like an immediate thought. 773 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:09,480 It's like I give one glance to the pro field and I immediately 774 00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:13,960 book it to the, to the fence and I start going down and I start 775 00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:17,320 doing these high fives and it's, I think there was, you know, 776 00:42:17,320 --> 00:42:20,600 there was one pocket of Wellesley right before I, I cut 777 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,520 over and I just was looking over them and I was like, wow, this 778 00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,600 is like, this is electric and I'm in the lead pack and they 779 00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:30,040 were like four or five guys. And it's like I'm feeling good 780 00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:34,760 And, and I just like, honestly, I think it was pure impulse, 781 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:38,960 like pure, like just unadulterated joy impulse like 782 00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:40,400 I'm going to like, this is just too good. 783 00:42:40,400 --> 00:42:43,000 This is just too fun. Like I, I couldn't help myself. 784 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:46,240 I couldn't help myself. I was too excited, but like 785 00:42:46,240 --> 00:42:49,000 quickly, like as I got halfway down the line, I was like, wow, 786 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,320 this is actually not the most beneficial. 787 00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,080 Like they're reaching over the fence. 788 00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:57,160 They're like getting full high fives. 789 00:42:57,160 --> 00:43:00,240 Like you're trying to kind of like maybe barely high 5 them so 790 00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,840 they're not slowing you down. But like they're into it and 791 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,600 you're like, oh gosh, like this is in fact, I think my shoulder 792 00:43:06,600 --> 00:43:10,520 was a little bit sore the next day from a little bit of it. 793 00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:14,400 But it was, yeah, it was a power boost, like emotionally and 794 00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:16,240 physically and like a good distraction. 795 00:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,320 I'm going into the harder sections of what I would say 796 00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:22,120 Boston is. And, and like, I wouldn't change 797 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,400 it. And I, yeah, like I said, I 798 00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:26,920 completely forgot about until you have someone posted the 799 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:34,480 video and yeah, people, people love it and it's just who I am. 800 00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:36,880 I like there was no thought behind it. 801 00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:40,600 It was just it was just came from within to be honest and 802 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:44,840 priceless moment, really priceless. 803 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:48,400 And like I'm sure the rest of the profile thought I was crazy, 804 00:43:48,480 --> 00:43:52,680 but yeah, no regrets whatsoever. And and yeah, I don't, I don't 805 00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,560 want to say like I've created like a a habit now that I'll do 806 00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:59,400 it every year because yeah, yeah, like I want to do it. 807 00:43:59,920 --> 00:44:01,320 I don't want to do it for the PR. 808 00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:04,800 I don't want to do it for the the camera time or the looks 809 00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:06,600 like I had no idea that it got captured. 810 00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,160 I thought like, there's so many breaks in the commercial feeds 811 00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:13,520 and like in like women's and wheelchair racing, like I'm, 812 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,200 I'm, I'm just glad someone got it, I guess. 813 00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:18,120 I didn't even know that wasn't my intent. 814 00:44:18,120 --> 00:44:21,480 It was cool to watch it back. What happens in your body I 815 00:44:21,480 --> 00:44:23,240 guess. Right after that, like, do you 816 00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:25,800 have to really, I guess bring yourself down? 817 00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:27,800 That's an adrenaline rush. Totally. 818 00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:28,880 Yeah, It I. Mean. 819 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:32,000 The thing is, it is an adrenaline rush. 820 00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:36,360 But something I've learned, I think it started in like. 821 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,240 At the Olympic Games, to be honest. 822 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,080 When there was like so many Team USA shouts and then for sure 823 00:44:43,080 --> 00:44:48,880 right afterwards in New York in 2024, Connor and I got so much 824 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:54,600 love in New York in 2024, like Clayton Connor, Connor, Clayton 825 00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:56,080 Clayton Clayton, Connor, Connor, Connor. 826 00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:57,880 And like they're not reading your bid, They're not reading 827 00:44:57,880 --> 00:44:59,160 young, they're not reading Mance. 828 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,480 They're they're saying your name. 829 00:45:00,480 --> 00:45:03,440 They know who you are, they know what you've done and they're so 830 00:45:03,440 --> 00:45:06,280 excited. And you could say that like, 831 00:45:06,280 --> 00:45:08,920 I've had to get used to that. And it was the same thing in 832 00:45:08,920 --> 00:45:12,040 Boston. Like I, my name was cheered 833 00:45:12,040 --> 00:45:15,360 incessantly. And it was kind of almost 834 00:45:15,360 --> 00:45:17,920 awkward sometimes because I'd be with these other pro runners and 835 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:23,600 like, I think I heard Ryan's name shouted out like twice or 836 00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,960 like Rory got some love for sure. 837 00:45:25,960 --> 00:45:29,720 But it was just like, it's, it pales in comparison to people 838 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:33,320 saying my name and I like, I kind of like, I kind of wanted 839 00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:34,920 to say, Hey, they're cheering for you too. 840 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,640 Or like, hey, like it's just kind of a funny moment. 841 00:45:37,640 --> 00:45:40,360 But because of that, be like because I've kind of been. 842 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:43,360 Accustomed to that like going through. 843 00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:48,240 Wellesley was kind of yes, a high, but not not nearly at 844 00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:50,880 like, not nearly as much as it would be maybe in the beginning 845 00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:54,240 of my career. I've kind of become I've learned 846 00:45:54,240 --> 00:45:56,240 to tune it out more, if that makes sense. 847 00:45:56,240 --> 00:46:00,040 Like I've had to turn it out. Like I I'm a big believer in in 848 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,520 like your emotional bandwidth and your emotional tank in a 849 00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:05,320 marathon. And like you want to save that 850 00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,400 those emotions for the latter half of the race. 851 00:46:08,560 --> 00:46:10,960 And so you could say Wellesley's a little bit soon to kind of be 852 00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,640 tapping into those emotions. But yeah, usually most of the 853 00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:17,800 first half of the race, like, yes, I'm listening for Ashley 854 00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:21,160 and Todd and Jared and Kira and Mike Connor on the course that 855 00:46:21,160 --> 00:46:23,920 are cheering me on. But other than that, like, I by 856 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:27,560 and large have to stay dialed and I'll give a thumbs up or hi 857 00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,880 or like I'll try to acknowledge everybody that cheers for me. 858 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:34,360 But if if I had to swivel my head every time they said 859 00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:37,160 Clayton, I your neck would be a sore. 860 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:40,160 Yeah, yeah, yeah. But your fans. 861 00:46:40,160 --> 00:46:43,080 Are also giving you away to your competition because I when I 862 00:46:43,080 --> 00:46:46,200 chatted with Rory, he brought up the fact he was like Oh no like 863 00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:49,720 I could gauge just like Clayton coming up on me because I could 864 00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:52,880 start to hear the go Clayton Oh 100%. 865 00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:56,520 And like, yeah, like I'm trying to do the same thing to the 866 00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,120 other athletes, but it like it's impossible because everybody 867 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:03,720 around me is so loud, like I can't hear anyway. 868 00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:08,640 The roar of the. Next guy so yeah, definitely. 869 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:12,680 But hey, it's a it's a far bigger advantage than it is a 870 00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:13,960 disadvantage. Like I'll take it. 871 00:47:13,960 --> 00:47:16,680 And I'm really grateful for all those that that came out. 872 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,600 And even when we were like, you know, I put out a link for 873 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,920 everybody to upload their videos to kind of Crowdsource the 874 00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:28,160 YouTube. And like, we got so many videos 875 00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:31,360 and it's amazing. Like, yes, you know, we, we've 876 00:47:31,360 --> 00:47:36,040 had to be selective of what goes into YouTube, but it's just cool 877 00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:40,640 to go through the videos myself and to like, you know, they're 878 00:47:40,640 --> 00:47:43,760 screaming their heads off as they're videoing me and like to 879 00:47:43,760 --> 00:47:46,400 feel the love and to replay the moment of what was like. 880 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:52,360 Thank you to anybody that's sending videos like hopefully 881 00:47:52,360 --> 00:47:54,760 it'll live a lot, live forever on YouTube, but more than 882 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:56,840 anything, it'll live forever with me as I like to continue to 883 00:47:56,840 --> 00:47:58,600 review that the rest of my life. So thank you. 884 00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:02,520 Is the popularity just kind? Of compounding on itself where 885 00:48:02,520 --> 00:48:04,960 just sort of like it's just mounting and mounting because 886 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:08,200 you know, we were at the shakeout run on Saturday morning 887 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,960 and like you can't take 5 steps without someone stopping you for 888 00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,320 a photo and stuff. And like you obviously 889 00:48:15,320 --> 00:48:18,360 appreciate and love that. But like also it's like I feel 890 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:20,920 like this is gotta. Have been like. 891 00:48:21,360 --> 00:48:22,520 It's just getting bigger and bigger. 892 00:48:22,520 --> 00:48:25,080 And obviously that's a good thing because it goes to show 893 00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,880 like, one, your performance is speaking for itself. 894 00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,440 And then two, just sort of all the work that you put into sort 895 00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:34,760 of the YouTube channel is also helping grow that that profile. 896 00:48:35,120 --> 00:48:37,600 Yeah, it's, it's getting bigger. And bigger every year. 897 00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,800 And yeah, I, I mean, I love it like it is, you know, when we go 898 00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:44,720 in monk mode for these marathon builds. 899 00:48:44,720 --> 00:48:47,600 And yeah, like you said, we put in all the work on the roads, 900 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:49,840 but then we're putting all the work into the media, right? 901 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:55,280 The YouTube, you kind of can sometimes wonder, not 902 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:57,680 necessarily the road. Like obviously I love the sport. 903 00:48:57,680 --> 00:49:00,400 And so I'm always going to be have an internal love for that. 904 00:49:00,400 --> 00:49:02,480 And I do love YouTube and like sharing the story. 905 00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:04,680 But it is a good reminder on race day. 906 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,800 Like it, it is a good celebration when you have a good 907 00:49:07,800 --> 00:49:09,080 result. And then there's a bunch of 908 00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,800 people that that have shown their love all weekend and yeah, 909 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:19,080 like it's you helps you remember why, why you do it. 910 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,360 And there's so many people that come up and just say, hey, I 911 00:49:22,360 --> 00:49:24,640 love the YouTube. It helped me to start running 912 00:49:24,640 --> 00:49:27,600 again or it helped me get into running or it helped me to 913 00:49:27,600 --> 00:49:30,880 navigate this injury because you've been injured or like just 914 00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,960 countless, countless stories and it's easy. 915 00:49:34,040 --> 00:49:36,720 It's easy to forget. One of my favorite moments was I 916 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:42,680 was at in the, the Brooks Hyperion house and they, there 917 00:49:42,680 --> 00:49:44,680 was a couple people there that want to do interviews and one of 918 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,120 them was, I think it's called bad runs. 919 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,440 It's a big Media Group that's in China and, you know, through 920 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:54,560 their broken English, they're like, hey, you are huge in 921 00:49:54,560 --> 00:49:56,480 China. And I had no, like, I have no 922 00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,280 idea. And maybe they're just stroking 923 00:49:58,280 --> 00:49:59,840 my ego. Maybe I'm not as big in China as 924 00:49:59,840 --> 00:50:02,080 I think. But they're like, like you are 925 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:03,920 huge in China. Like we want to interview you. 926 00:50:03,920 --> 00:50:05,800 Like the people in China will love this interview. 927 00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,840 And, you know, apparently I, I don't know, I need to go explore 928 00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:12,800 this, but apparently, like my content has made it onto, you 929 00:50:12,800 --> 00:50:17,480 know, Chinese social media And, and so like people that I don't 930 00:50:17,480 --> 00:50:20,160 even know, right? Like, it's, it's interesting to 931 00:50:20,160 --> 00:50:23,880 me that because Boston is so international and so many people 932 00:50:23,880 --> 00:50:27,640 come at, it's almost like I get approached more often by people 933 00:50:27,640 --> 00:50:30,160 that are not, you know, from the United States. 934 00:50:30,600 --> 00:50:33,400 Is there one chance to see it? Yeah, it's from all over the. 935 00:50:33,520 --> 00:50:36,960 The, you know, the world. And the good news is, like last 936 00:50:36,960 --> 00:50:41,080 year it was kind of, you know, drinking through a firehose from 937 00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:44,720 a media standpoint and like an appearance standpoint and just 938 00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:47,880 even walking. But like this year we got a lot 939 00:50:47,880 --> 00:50:49,400 better. Like Ashley. 940 00:50:49,720 --> 00:50:52,680 Ashley, you know, in fact, I, I sent you a picture. 941 00:50:52,680 --> 00:50:53,600 I just remembered. Yeah. 942 00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:55,000 Tell the people what your Incognito. 943 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,360 Outfit was my Incognito had it was the. 944 00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:03,440 Sidious Mag hat with with Chris Chow's sunglasses. 945 00:51:03,440 --> 00:51:08,360 Actually, your race day I. I wear yeah. 946 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,760 You know, Chris's sunglasses, Which I guess I'll tell the 947 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:15,880 story that I guess the world needs to know, right? 948 00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,600 So going into the race, I was having a hard time deciding what 949 00:51:19,600 --> 00:51:24,520 sunglasses I should wear. And, you know, nothing was quite 950 00:51:24,520 --> 00:51:28,320 landing, right? And a year ago at the Boston 951 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:34,280 Marathon, I, you know, I lost my sunglasses, which if you know 952 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:36,120 me, these are the original sunglasses. 953 00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:38,640 These are the ones that I wore to the press conference at the 954 00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:42,120 Olympic trials when I was counted out of everybody's top 955 00:51:42,120 --> 00:51:44,240 three. And then I wore them on race day 956 00:51:44,240 --> 00:51:48,680 and they kind of became, you know, these iconic sunglasses. 957 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,760 And Chris Chavez, I bought a pair. 958 00:51:52,200 --> 00:51:54,600 Yeah, he DM Ed me and he said, hey, what are those glasses? 959 00:51:54,600 --> 00:51:59,240 And he bought a pair. Well, last year in Boston, I was 960 00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:03,120 going to wear them and I lost them between putting my bag down 961 00:52:03,120 --> 00:52:06,040 in the starting line and I had to wear different glasses. 962 00:52:06,680 --> 00:52:09,400 So this year I was like, man, like I need some sunglasses. 963 00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:14,000 And so I was, I've been meaning to pick up a pair, but I, you 964 00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:17,320 know, was deep on my list and get to it and IDM Chris and 965 00:52:17,320 --> 00:52:21,120 said, Yo, can I borrow your like, do you still have the 966 00:52:21,120 --> 00:52:24,040 Sunsky Ventanas? You know, and he's like, yeah, 967 00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:25,920 I'll bring them. And he hand delivered them to 968 00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:27,640 Connor and Connor hand delivered them to me. 969 00:52:27,640 --> 00:52:30,400 And I wore them on race day. And then they became my 970 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:33,040 Incognito sunglasses the rest of the weekend, which actually not 971 00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:34,680 I think about is probably not very Incognito. 972 00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:40,400 But yeah, they served their purpose and didn't think a bit 973 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:42,320 about them. And I love those glasses. 974 00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:46,120 I think those glasses have now. Gone through I guess my half 975 00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:49,200 marathon PR in a two O 5 marathon. 976 00:52:49,240 --> 00:52:53,360 It's kind of big range there. That yeah, I'm. 977 00:52:53,640 --> 00:52:55,880 Going to need those back there. There's lots of good luck on 978 00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:57,840 them. We can just kind of trade them 979 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:01,120 off, you know, at, you know, future races for sure until you 980 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,560 get your own pair. All right, so the streak though, 981 00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:08,360 top ten at every world major, every global championship and 982 00:53:08,360 --> 00:53:11,720 Boston breaks it. How much of that was a goal? 983 00:53:11,880 --> 00:53:14,760 And then is that just kind of like part of when you're 984 00:53:14,760 --> 00:53:19,640 processing this two O 5 massive PR off of, you know, 9 or 10 985 00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,960 weeks of of training that is that we're just sort of like 986 00:53:22,960 --> 00:53:26,040 some of the disappointments. It's yeah, 100%. 987 00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,120 I think, I mean, I knew that that was a risk coming into this 988 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:32,600 race. Like I kind of said, I I knew 989 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:34,920 that. What was your babe number? 990 00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:36,680 24. OK. 991 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,120 Well, yeah. There are 23 people I had to be. 992 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,240 I guess based on PR it's true and it. 993 00:53:42,240 --> 00:53:45,520 Is kind of funny, I remember looking at, you know, the elite 994 00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:48,240 field when it was first announced, something like, oh 995 00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:51,960 man, that's a big field and very aggressive field. 996 00:53:52,120 --> 00:53:54,640 And I quickly was like, OK, I'm not going to look at that list 997 00:53:54,640 --> 00:53:57,000 again for a while. And then, you know, especially 998 00:53:57,000 --> 00:53:59,480 when I was just coming off a main dream, you know, workouts 999 00:53:59,480 --> 00:54:03,520 were just dumpster fires. But towards the end, I, I looked 1000 00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:05,640 at it again, I was like, oh man, I shouldn't have looked at this 1001 00:54:05,640 --> 00:54:07,160 list again. Like it there's just so many 1002 00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:12,600 guys on this list and yeah, it yeah, it's like you, you want to 1003 00:54:12,600 --> 00:54:16,040 show up at your best and, and was I showing up good enough? 1004 00:54:17,080 --> 00:54:19,600 But yeah, I think the 11th is what stings the most. 1005 00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:21,480 I mean, obviously there's a little bit of consolation in the 1006 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:25,320 time and the fact that I'm a 2O5 guy. 1007 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:29,920 Fastest year ever in Boston, deepest field ever, however you 1008 00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:32,880 want to list it. Like there's so many asterisks 1009 00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:38,840 to that, to that 11th place, you know, injury, new new brand, new 1010 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:41,400 sponsor, short build. Like there's. 1011 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:43,440 Yeah. But at the same time, at the end 1012 00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:46,160 of the day, it's 11th and it goes on my record as 11th and, 1013 00:54:47,680 --> 00:54:51,040 well, unless something happens. To any of the top. 10 ahead of 1014 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:52,960 you, but let's hope that's not the case. 1015 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,920 You know I will. Admit that that when I crossed 1016 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,760 the finish line and I went up to coach ice stone and I said I 1017 00:55:00,760 --> 00:55:02,960 asked him what place I took. He said I took eleven. 1018 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,400 I was like Dang it like I was like especially because it came 1019 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:10,720 down right at the end essentially like 700 meters to 1020 00:55:10,720 --> 00:55:13,960 go. Alex Masai comes flying by me 1021 00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:16,840 and I thought I I thought I was, I had locked it up like I 1022 00:55:16,840 --> 00:55:18,720 thought I was, I was closing hard. 1023 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:21,280 I felt. And I was even coming up on 1024 00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:24,160 another guy and I was kind of gauging his pace and his 1025 00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:26,080 distance, thinking like I might be able to grab him. 1026 00:55:26,080 --> 00:55:30,000 And Alex Messiah got the next guy and I tried to close. 1027 00:55:30,000 --> 00:55:31,960 And so it's just like it was tangible. 1028 00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:35,240 Like it was, it was there, You know, a lot of those last 1029 00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:37,920 places. I think we're tangible for a lot 1030 00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:40,320 of guys. But I think I crossed the line 1031 00:55:40,320 --> 00:55:42,920 and I I said, you know, coach ice and said, Ah, you took 11. 1032 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:45,640 Then I was like, Dang it. And he's like, it's like, yeah. 1033 00:55:45,640 --> 00:55:46,480 And he brought up the same point. 1034 00:55:46,480 --> 00:55:51,000 He said that's if you know, all the guys like you are, are and 1035 00:55:51,000 --> 00:55:57,520 I, I, I'll say this loud and proud that I, I definitely, I 1036 00:55:57,520 --> 00:55:58,920 take the benefit of the doubt, right? 1037 00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,480 Like I that's how I have to be in the sport. 1038 00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,360 And so I'm not accusing anybody or saying anything, but I just, 1039 00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:07,160 yeah, you never know. And so, yeah, that's why you 1040 00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:08,680 have to fight for every spot, because you never know when 1041 00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:12,520 you're going to be upgraded. I mean, you look at even New 1042 00:56:12,520 --> 00:56:14,840 York last fall, I mean. You weren't in that race, but 1043 00:56:14,840 --> 00:56:19,040 like, that was a world major and a guy on the podium is the one 1044 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:22,440 who comes off the the results. Pat Patty Devers, you know. 1045 00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:28,040 Now finishing the top three and that's devastating for him, but 1046 00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:32,000 also really exciting for him. And so I mean, I even into the 1047 00:56:32,000 --> 00:56:33,800 world champs. I had a good friend that was, 1048 00:56:34,200 --> 00:56:36,440 you know, that I've gotten to know from a different training 1049 00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,080 group and he's like, Hey, just make sure you fight for every 1050 00:56:38,080 --> 00:56:40,640 spot. You know, we we knew that, you 1051 00:56:40,640 --> 00:56:43,800 know, the goal at that time was to contend for a medal. 1052 00:56:43,800 --> 00:56:47,320 And, you know, even if you fall off a little bit, like fight for 1053 00:56:47,320 --> 00:56:48,440 every spot because you never know. 1054 00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:50,080 Yeah. I mean, that's part of. 1055 00:56:50,640 --> 00:56:55,760 You read mebs book like every build it seems like and that he 1056 00:56:55,760 --> 00:56:57,920 harps on that a lot all throughout. 1057 00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,240 Yeah Mebs book was. Actually a pretty big 1058 00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:03,200 inspiration for this build because he had so many short 1059 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:07,000 builds and so many injuries in those middle marathons. 1060 00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,840 And so I I, I, yeah, a week or two going into this marathon, I 1061 00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:15,520 went and listened to his book again just to kind of OK, if Mev 1062 00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:18,560 can do it, yes, he's a freak of nature, but maybe I can do it 1063 00:57:18,720 --> 00:57:24,200 kind of you. Described this Boston Marathon 1064 00:57:24,200 --> 00:57:27,640 in the In the Training Block as a as a chapter in your book, 1065 00:57:28,080 --> 00:57:31,960 like in your Instagram caption where it was like learning and 1066 00:57:32,040 --> 00:57:33,800 and preparing for like what's what's ahead. 1067 00:57:33,800 --> 00:57:37,640 But what do you think this chapter taught you and what is 1068 00:57:37,640 --> 00:57:40,760 the lesson you don't want people other people to to miss from 1069 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:42,680 this one. Gosh, there's a lot of. 1070 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,840 Lessons 1 is just like figuring out your injuries, owning your 1071 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,480 injuries, figure out your body, like taking ownership of, of 1072 00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:55,080 your, your medical process, whatever it may be with your 1073 00:57:55,080 --> 00:57:58,960 doctors and physical therapists and, and trying to understand 1074 00:57:58,960 --> 00:58:00,800 like don't put it all in their hands. 1075 00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,000 Like try to understand it for yourself. 1076 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:06,720 Like, so I got to know the anatomy of my foot and my ankle 1077 00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:09,440 really well so that way I could understand the bio mechanics of 1078 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:12,000 it. And ultimately that yes, there 1079 00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:14,440 was a lot of knowledge that came from these doctors and physical 1080 00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:16,440 therapists, but it was ultimately the inspiration that 1081 00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,960 I received that ended up making the difference in me being able 1082 00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,360 to run healthy by moving this wedge in my insole. 1083 00:58:23,320 --> 00:58:27,800 So I think that's lesson #1 and well, and that here The thing 1084 00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:30,520 is, is like, I'm going to be dealing with that injury for the 1085 00:58:30,520 --> 00:58:33,080 rest of my career. And so when I think about like 1086 00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:37,240 this was not ideal and this is a very important marathon, but 1087 00:58:37,240 --> 00:58:39,280 it's not the most important marathon. 1088 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,520 Like the most important marathon are. 1089 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:46,200 Or is, you know, Olympic Trials and Olympic Games in 28705 days 1090 00:58:46,200 --> 00:58:50,320 away I think. 7000 Gosh. Seven and five days away. 1091 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:54,920 And, and so there's, there's a little bit of that knowing that 1092 00:58:54,920 --> 00:58:59,640 I've solved this problem and now it's not going to happen in 1093 00:58:59,640 --> 00:59:02,760 future marathons. And then I think just this 1094 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,720 belief in lifetime fitness that I can get fit off of A10 week 1095 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,360 build. And yeah, I don't want to make a 1096 00:59:07,360 --> 00:59:09,040 habit of it. I don't want to get used to it, 1097 00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:14,560 But I I can get fit and I can be competitive and I can, you know, 1098 00:59:14,760 --> 00:59:17,640 I think one of the things I said shortly after the race is like, 1099 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:21,160 yeah, it was sad to get 11th. Yeah, it was I, you know, it 1100 00:59:21,160 --> 00:59:24,400 kind of stings a little bit to have, you know, Zuhair Talbi and 1101 00:59:24,720 --> 00:59:29,080 Charles Hicks ahead of me when, when, you know, I hope to be 1102 00:59:29,080 --> 00:59:32,200 able to compete with those guys. But like, I made the Olympic 1103 00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:37,160 team on Boston that day, right? Like I was top three and and 1104 00:59:37,240 --> 00:59:41,080 that's all that matters. And at the Olympic trials. 1105 00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:42,800 And so is maybe a little bit of a trial run for that. 1106 00:59:42,800 --> 00:59:47,320 Like I can still have that confidence and belief and I know 1107 00:59:47,320 --> 00:59:49,880 I can do it again if it if I happen to have a set back. 1108 00:59:51,760 --> 00:59:56,960 And just, yeah, there's those are probably the two, the two 1109 00:59:56,960 --> 00:59:59,200 biggest lessons that I learned for sure. 1110 00:59:59,200 --> 01:00:02,280 And I hope that people can take that away knowing that, you 1111 01:00:02,280 --> 01:00:04,320 know, they can get through injuries, that they can own 1112 01:00:04,320 --> 01:00:06,200 their injuries and that they can come back fit and they can get 1113 01:00:06,200 --> 01:00:11,120 to come back faster. And that their self belief and 1114 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:13,680 taking it a day at a time. Like literally a day at a time 1115 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:15,680 and interval at a time, a mile at a time. 1116 01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:19,520 Is a big part of it. How'd you feel about your? 1117 01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:25,480 Sidious Mag way too early 2028 Olympic Trials power ranking 1118 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,480 spot at #4 That's, that's more of a shot that we gave you in 1119 01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:31,800 2024. Here you are. 1120 01:00:31,800 --> 01:00:34,800 Trying to spin it all positive. That's more of a shot in 2020. 1121 01:00:34,800 --> 01:00:36,560 And everyone else is like, what are you doing? 1122 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,720 I love it. I love the power rankings. 1123 01:00:39,720 --> 01:00:42,160 I love the hype around the Olympic trials. 1124 01:00:42,160 --> 01:00:45,880 I I, I think it's fun. I'm I'm glad that you guys put 1125 01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:49,240 that out because it's just, it just, yeah, it just brings so 1126 01:00:49,240 --> 01:00:51,440 much life to the sport and excitement to the sport. 1127 01:00:51,440 --> 01:00:54,440 And yes, it's way too early and there's a lot of factors and 1128 01:00:54,440 --> 01:00:57,280 there's, you know, that list is going to change like crazy. 1129 01:00:57,800 --> 01:01:02,800 That being said, I'm sure people saw, you know, I was like, OK, 1130 01:01:02,800 --> 01:01:04,760 how am I going to react to this? Like, how do I feel about this? 1131 01:01:04,760 --> 01:01:07,680 And it's kind of probably the same reaction that I feel 1132 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:09,920 actually coming off of Boston. Like I came off of Boston. 1133 01:01:09,920 --> 01:01:13,960 Like, yeah, sweet PR, I'm healthy, I'm strong, but I'm 1134 01:01:13,960 --> 01:01:16,680 just enough fired up, like I'm just enough motivated for the 1135 01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:19,120 next bill, the next marathon, next summer training, whatever 1136 01:01:19,120 --> 01:01:21,480 it may be. And I kind of feel the same 1137 01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:25,000 about the rankings, right? It's like, you know, I I've got 1138 01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:27,360 Connor ahead of me. I got Zuhair ahead of me, got 1139 01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:29,920 Charles Hicks ahead of me. Like I'm on the cusp. 1140 01:01:30,160 --> 01:01:31,600 And it's just as a good reminder. 1141 01:01:31,600 --> 01:01:34,080 Like I can't get complacent. Like it's the just right 1142 01:01:34,080 --> 01:01:36,520 motivation. So, you know, maybe I owe 1143 01:01:36,520 --> 01:01:39,160 Sidious a little bit of just getting me in the right head 1144 01:01:39,160 --> 01:01:40,920 space. And, you know, I commented on 1145 01:01:40,920 --> 01:01:44,200 there and said something to the effect of like, yes, like I'm 1146 01:01:44,200 --> 01:01:48,120 not in the top three. Yeah, underdog mode activated, 1147 01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:50,120 right. Like embracing that underdog 1148 01:01:50,120 --> 01:01:53,080 mentality because I do perform well in that mindset. 1149 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:58,200 And yeah, it's it's it's perfect. 1150 01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:01,880 How are you going about? Reading the full breath of like 1151 01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:04,680 the results from this race, right? 1152 01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,720 Because we had 7 American men who run faster than 208, right? 1153 01:02:08,720 --> 01:02:13,160 And that was like a number where even to just enter like the all 1154 01:02:13,160 --> 01:02:16,800 time, you know, list 208 was kind of like the entry point to 1155 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,160 the whole entire thing. But coupled with, you know, the 1156 01:02:20,160 --> 01:02:23,160 conditions and just how much of an outlier this one was. 1157 01:02:23,560 --> 01:02:27,320 Even if you take the extra step of sizing up like who beat who 1158 01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:30,760 and like where like this one's going to be, this one kind of 1159 01:02:30,880 --> 01:02:33,200 messes with people's heads a little bit. 1160 01:02:33,200 --> 01:02:37,680 Like part of me wanted to for a second slot Zuhair over Connor, 1161 01:02:37,680 --> 01:02:40,280 because I was like, this was just, you know, this is a much 1162 01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,520 faster time than I remember Connor beat him by like, you 1163 01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,600 know, a good amount like in Chicago. 1164 01:02:46,080 --> 01:02:50,400 And so I mean, like this is a great data point, but I don't 1165 01:02:50,400 --> 01:02:55,600 necessarily think that you can get, you know, basically go down 1166 01:02:55,600 --> 01:02:59,080 the line and, you know, think that this is this is what the 1167 01:02:59,080 --> 01:03:01,880 pecking order is right now. I was thinking back to. 1168 01:03:01,920 --> 01:03:05,160 When I ran two O 8 flat in Chicago to unlock one of the 1169 01:03:05,160 --> 01:03:10,120 spots in 2023 for the Olympic team, I was 7th. 1170 01:03:11,080 --> 01:03:14,440 I was ranked 7th on the all time list and I. 1171 01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:15,680 Think you know there's different? 1172 01:03:15,680 --> 01:03:19,360 Lists depending on which courses you include, but I think now I'm 1173 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:24,280 ranked 5th on the all time list and it's yeah, it's two O 541. 1174 01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:30,000 And it's just crazy how much the US has just been elevated, been 1175 01:03:30,000 --> 01:03:35,560 elevated and on all fronts. And it like makes me excited, 1176 01:03:36,320 --> 01:03:39,840 but it's also daunting knowing that like, yeah, these guys are 1177 01:03:39,840 --> 01:03:43,800 coming and they're hungry and they're learning from those 1178 01:03:43,920 --> 01:03:48,240 before them and before them. And you know, it's yeah, it's a 1179 01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:52,160 cool time to be part of the sport, both as an American, but 1180 01:03:52,160 --> 01:03:54,440 then also just this running boom that's hitting right now. 1181 01:03:54,440 --> 01:04:01,600 And I I think with Connor, I am really grateful like that he 1182 01:04:01,600 --> 01:04:05,640 always has his eyes elevated. I know that, you know, when you 1183 01:04:05,640 --> 01:04:07,800 think, you know, it messes with people's minds. 1184 01:04:07,800 --> 01:04:11,560 You talk about, you know, people processing these results and 1185 01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,320 it's yes, it's hard for those that were in the race to process 1186 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:16,440 the results, but I think it's even harder for the athletes 1187 01:04:16,440 --> 01:04:18,200 that didn't have the opportunities to race. 1188 01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:23,040 You know, the the Conor Manses, the BS and bosses, the Hilary 1189 01:04:23,040 --> 01:04:26,520 bores, like anybody that's a big contender that wasn't part of 1190 01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:29,760 this race is going to have a hard time wrapping their head 1191 01:04:29,760 --> 01:04:32,720 around it. And like, like we get all the 1192 01:04:32,720 --> 01:04:35,120 confidence as those that raced it, you know, because we can 1193 01:04:35,120 --> 01:04:36,880 say, oh, we ran this fast and guess what? 1194 01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:38,640 The weather was good, but it wasn't that good. 1195 01:04:38,640 --> 01:04:42,080 Like, like it was like, OK, like they're like, I didn't feel the 1196 01:04:42,080 --> 01:04:43,680 tailwind. Like we get all the the 1197 01:04:43,680 --> 01:04:45,320 confidence. Whereas those that are looking 1198 01:04:45,320 --> 01:04:47,160 out like, yeah, they can make those qualifiers, but they're 1199 01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:51,280 also maybe a little bit like who like they maybe feel the 1200 01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:56,680 pressure a little bit more. And yeah, it's, I think people 1201 01:04:56,680 --> 01:04:58,560 are going to be looking at this race for a long time. 1202 01:04:59,040 --> 01:05:01,920 Such a different kind of edge. Compared to just sort of like 1203 01:05:01,920 --> 01:05:06,000 what you what what Connor maybe gets from workouts and finishing 1204 01:05:06,000 --> 01:05:08,840 ahead of you now you've got this card in your back pocket a 1205 01:05:08,840 --> 01:05:11,080 little bit. Yeah, yeah, it's. 1206 01:05:11,480 --> 01:05:14,640 The fact that I, yeah, did this off of this training is really, 1207 01:05:15,200 --> 01:05:17,920 really confident building. But and, you know, people say, 1208 01:05:17,920 --> 01:05:19,040 oh, what? What are you going to do on a 1209 01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:20,360 healthy build? Or what are you going to do on a 1210 01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,280 flat course? Like I've got some big decisions 1211 01:05:22,280 --> 01:05:24,240 to make for this fall and I don't know what I'm going to do 1212 01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:27,240 yet. But yeah, like, will I have a 1213 01:05:27,240 --> 01:05:30,080 full build and will it be flat? Who knows? 1214 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,800 And does that mean I finally get a revisit and chase down the 1215 01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:35,560 American record? Like, maybe. 1216 01:05:35,560 --> 01:05:38,920 But at the same time, now that I look at it, like me and five 1217 01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:40,240 other guys will probably chasing it. 1218 01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:43,600 So it's not a guarantee as much as it was before. 1219 01:05:43,920 --> 01:05:46,840 OK, so my final. Question is, I guess what we 1220 01:05:46,840 --> 01:05:49,760 talked about this just in terms of chapters, what do you want 1221 01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:52,360 the next chapter be? Not necessarily, like you said, 1222 01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:57,640 a time goal or a specific race, but the version of Clayton that 1223 01:05:57,640 --> 01:06:00,400 you want to try and become. Yeah, I you. 1224 01:06:00,400 --> 01:06:04,000 Know the first thing that I jumped to is there's been so 1225 01:06:04,000 --> 01:06:07,240 many things at play over the last couple months that we've 1226 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:12,280 kind of had to put on pause in order to get ready for Boston. 1227 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:16,160 There's a lot of stuff from Brooks that like they are just 1228 01:06:16,920 --> 01:06:20,440 just waiting to kind of like introduce me to from a physio 1229 01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:22,960 side and we've we've been able to start on a little bit on 1230 01:06:22,960 --> 01:06:27,640 that, but then even like a shoe development side and I'm really 1231 01:06:27,640 --> 01:06:32,120 excited to dive deep into that sort of stuff and to really get 1232 01:06:32,320 --> 01:06:36,360 to to optimize even more. And the other thing that like 1233 01:06:36,520 --> 01:06:41,280 I'm really excited about is like, because I now have like 1234 01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,400 Brooks as a long time sponsor and Sunto as a long time sponsor 1235 01:06:44,400 --> 01:06:47,240 and others, like I can take a little bit of that mental 1236 01:06:47,240 --> 01:06:51,920 bandwidth away and put it more towards just the perfection of 1237 01:06:51,920 --> 01:06:56,120 what is my. Next marathon build. 1238 01:06:56,800 --> 01:07:00,600 With the added support of Brooks. 1239 01:07:00,600 --> 01:07:02,960 And sunto and. Stride and like these people, 1240 01:07:02,960 --> 01:07:06,440 like we've now we're entering these next like this. 1241 01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,840 I feel like this is the start, you know, it would have started 1242 01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:12,760 in January, but because things kind of got rushed with my 1243 01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,040 injury in the negotiations, like now I feel like it's the start 1244 01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,840 of, of dialing everything in for LA 2028. 1245 01:07:18,840 --> 01:07:22,000 And I'm really excited to like test and iterate and, and to 1246 01:07:22,000 --> 01:07:25,440 optimize on that front. And yeah, I'm sure all you guys 1247 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:27,640 are thinking like Clayton, like you already do that so much 1248 01:07:27,640 --> 01:07:28,800 like, why do you want to do more? 1249 01:07:28,800 --> 01:07:30,640 Like what? That's yes, that's my identity, 1250 01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,280 but I, I, I don't know, I'm excited to get back. 1251 01:07:33,840 --> 01:07:38,200 There's been so much business stuff lately and and don't get 1252 01:07:38,200 --> 01:07:40,600 me wrong, I love it and all those relationships and even 1253 01:07:40,600 --> 01:07:42,600 from a media standpoint, but like I want to streamline all 1254 01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:46,440 that so I can put more of my headspace towards being the 1255 01:07:46,440 --> 01:07:49,760 fastest marathon or I can be. And I, you know, whether that 1256 01:07:49,760 --> 01:07:54,160 includes an American record, a chase attempt or trying to chase 1257 01:07:54,160 --> 01:07:57,320 a podium finish out of one major marathon or, or having fun with 1258 01:07:57,320 --> 01:08:00,240 it and going somewhere because this is kind of the off year and 1259 01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,560 saving those, you know, fast times for when the Olympic 1260 01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,720 standard is available and up for grabs. 1261 01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,400 Like, I don't know yet, but that's that's what I'm excited 1262 01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:10,080 about. Well, Clayton, we're. 1263 01:08:10,080 --> 01:08:13,320 Along for the ride and we'll have you on for your 11th 1264 01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,720 appearance on the podcast sometime before all of that. 1265 01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:21,560 So congratulations again on another big day in Boston. 1266 01:08:21,560 --> 01:08:25,359 I'll see you soon to pick up my sunglasses. 1267 01:08:25,359 --> 01:08:29,600 But really proud of the effort that went into this one after a 1268 01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,880 pretty dark block at times, but you pulled it through. 1269 01:08:33,439 --> 01:08:34,359 Hold through. Thanks. 1270 01:08:34,359 --> 01:08:37,880 Chris, all right, that's a wrap on today's. 1271 01:08:37,880 --> 01:08:39,880 Episode. Thanks for listening, for the 1272 01:08:39,880 --> 01:08:42,840 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 1273 01:08:42,840 --> 01:08:45,920 routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer 1274 01:08:45,920 --> 01:08:48,760 Jasmine Fair, and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make 1275 01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:51,960 the Sidious Mag podcast happen. If you enjoyed today's episode, 1276 01:08:51,960 --> 01:08:53,160 a quick. Five Star Review on Apple 1277 01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:57,479 Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we read every 1278 01:08:57,479 --> 01:08:58,720 single one. You can find 1279 01:08:58,720 --> 01:09:02,520 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 1280 01:09:02,560 --> 01:09:04,120 all of Sidiousmag's social channels. 1281 01:09:04,319 --> 01:09:06,399 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.