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What's up everyone? 
You are listening to the Sidious

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Magic Podcast. 
I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 

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every week we go beyond the 
results to bring you 

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conversations with the biggest 
names on the track, the roads, 

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and behind the scenes. 
From world class athletes and 

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coaches to innovators shaping 
the sport. 

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If it's happening on the track, 
we're covering it with real 

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insights that sharpen minds, 
deep dives into the moments that

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define careers, and the kind of 
access to the pros you won't get

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anywhere else. 
So let's get into it, because we

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love track and field. 
All right, And now I'm joined by

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the man himself, ready to make a
little bit of an announcement 

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and some news. 
This is the Evan Jaeger exit 

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interview. 
So Evan, you're breaking a lot 

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of hearts and making people will
also feel old in the process. 

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But what went into the decision 
And you know that now is the 

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right time to to call it a 
career. 

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Congratulations First off on 
like an amazing career. 

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Thank you. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah, I feel good about 
everything. 

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I think there's a. 
Lot of things that went into the

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Decision 1, you know, moving to 
Sweden changed things a lot. 

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We moved here a year ago and so 
I did a lot of my own last year,

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which I guess doesn't really 
like play a huge role in this. 

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The decision. 
It just like kind of timing 

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wise, just like a lot of change 
happening. 

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So it, it kind of like almost 
makes the decision easier. 

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But you know, I'm like getting 
old for track and field. 

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So it's like I've been thinking 
about it for a while and, you 

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know, the end of my career, like
wasn't going, you know, the way 

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that the start of my career or 
the middle of my career went. 

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And yeah, like it's always on. 
It was always on the back of my 

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mind, I guess the last few years
and last year, like Olympic, the

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Olympic year, I was close enough
to making a team to where I felt

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like if I put everything 
together the right way and 

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things fell my way, I could 
potentially make the team this 

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year. 
And, you know, training was hard

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on my own and it just like the 
hard stuff kept feeling harder 

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and harder. 
And I just was like realizing 

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that like doing what was needed,
like the hard work that was 

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needed to do is like kind of, it
was like slipping through my 

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fingers. 
It, it didn't really feel like 

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as much of an option anymore. 
So it it was pretty apparent and

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you know, I think because I'm 
like very happy with how my 

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career went to it, made the 
decision easy. 

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Like realizing that like I'm not
in the mix for making teams 

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anymore and like I didn't want 
to keep running, like just 

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trying to make USAS year in, 
year out. 

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So yeah, I feel good about 
everything. 

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And yeah, it just, it just felt 
like the right time. 

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I feel like so many people, you 
know, when their time is up on 

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the track, like they just shift 
over to the roads and give that 

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a shot for a little bit before 
ultimately calling it quits. 

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Like so for you, this is as you 
know, I think it's it's you're 

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moving into a real job, I think 
now after this, right? 

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Moving up to the roads was 
definitely like an option in the

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back of my mind. 
I think maybe it could have been

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an option had I pushed hard 
enough to to Nike, but. 

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I wasn't really I I talked with 
like a few different people and 

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I thought I wanted to do it just
because, you know, I just love 

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running so much. 
It's just so like the best, it's

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like the best job I could ever 
get. 

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So part of me wanted to do it, 
but. 

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I think part of it is like where
the marathon is at these days, 

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Like you can't like run 210 and 
be like in the mix for being 

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like, you know, the best guy in 
the US trying to make Olympic 

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teams that way. 
And so I just knew with how 

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training had been going and 
racing had been going the last 

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couple years and like where the 
top level is sport is at right 

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now is just I, I feel like I 
would have been in the same 

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position that I kind of was in 
the steeple. 

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So I didn't, I didn't really 
want to be like gutting it out, 

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training really hard, trying to 
be like. 

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The. 
You know, 20th best marathoner 

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in the US So not that I didn't 
believe in myself, but it was 

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just it just like, yeah, the 
sport's at a different level 

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right now, which is awesome. 
It's really cool. 

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So I, yeah, I think I was just 
ready for the next stage and 

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getting away from the athlete 
lifestyle where, you know, I'm 

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just exhausted all the time and 
traveling and being away from my

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wife and daughter for months on 
end. 

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It's just like I, I was over it 
so. 

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Yeah, you're ready to be a dad. 
Yeah, I'm ready to be a dad, be 

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home more, be like present and 
just like yeah, started getting 

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excited about the the next stage
of life. 

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So I think the last time I had 
you on this podcast was right 

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after Worlds in 2022. 
And I went back and I pulled up 

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some quotes of like some stuff 
that you reflected on from that 

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year and you said, I still think
I can be that guy and knows who 

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knows, maybe surprise myself and
get back to pretty good fitness 

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and see where things go. 
I'm not going into next year 

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thinking, OK, I've got a year of
healthy running under my legs, 

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so I'm going to go back to 
running 8 flat, dictating all 

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these races, controlling things 
from the front and dropping 

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everyone. 
It's a pretty big leap to make. 

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I think I'm two sided. 
I know where I've been the last 

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four years, but I always think 
of myself as this, as that same 

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athlete and I want to be back 
there regardless. 

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So that was end of 2022. 
How do we look back on the last 

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three years of your career? 
Because it is that thing as 

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runners wear, we always get so 
selfish and think, like, all 

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right, next year is going to be 
better after you catch some 

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momentum. 
And in retrospect now, right, 

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like 2022 would have been quite 
the fine year to go out with, 

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you know, finishing 6th at 
world's 816 season's best. 

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And like just kind of that, you 
know, you you stamped the 

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comeback. 
So from there, I mean, how do 

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you kind of look at the last 
three years? 

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Because yeah, I mean, like, you 
work close enough to believe, 

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like, all right, I can give 
Paris a shot. 

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Yeah, Yeah, I have no regrets on
that. 

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I think, yeah, just how I how I 
had come off the the previous 

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year going into 22 and having 
that momentum into that year. 

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I, I do think that like, I, I 
think it was the right decision 

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to, to go two more years with 
the, I, the mindset that like 

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ideally I would have just been 
healthy the whole time. 

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And I think that would have set 
me up pretty well going into the

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Olympic year. 
And I maybe things would have 

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been different. 
Maybe they would have been the 

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same had I not gotten injured in
23 going into 24. 

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So it's just like I was just 
kind of like riddled with 

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injuries the last stretch of my 
career, which is like 

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unfortunate. 
I think I almost like proved too

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much to myself in 22 that like, 
I could fight through like a 

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really tough period of, of my 
career, fight through injuries, 

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come out on the other side and 
have success. 

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And I was just like, I like, it 
was almost too much proof to 

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like just stop right there. 
Like, so I gave myself even more

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belief going into the 2023-2024 
seasons. 

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And yeah, I, I still, I don't 
have any regrets going for it 

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again. 
And in 2024, you know, it's such

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a big part of the sport and part
of me wanted like the closure 

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from Paris 20/20/2015 of getting
back there. 

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So that was like definitely in 
the back of my head and a major 

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driving factor in, yeah, trying 
to make that team. 

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Yeah, you brought that up, I 
think toward the end of our 

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conversation, just sort of like 
the poetic nature of what it 

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would be like to get back to 
Paris and compete there. 

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When did you feel during 2024 
that it started to slip away 

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from you? 
It, it really unravelled for me 

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in the spring. 
We, we were training really, 

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really hard and it's, it's hard 
to like switch your mentality as

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an athlete after like doing 
things a certain way for it was 

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like, you know, 15 years at the 
time or whatever. 

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So like had done stuff one way 
like my entire career and that 

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pretty much always worked out 
for me. 

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And I just pushed through too 
much hard training in the spring

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and got myself in like a really 
deep like overtraining hole 

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basically. 
And took a couple weeks down to 

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like get out of it And really 
didn't like fully come around 

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feeling like good about things 
until like 2 weeks before the 

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trials. 
So there was like a, there's 

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like a two to three month window
where I was like, this is just, 

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it's just not happening. 
And I was able to do like just 

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enough to like get myself back 
to a good place and then get 

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good fitness. 
And he was like Portland 

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Twilight or Stumptown, one of 
the last races before the trials

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just to like hit the standard to
get into the meat. 

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And so I hit the standard to get
into the meat and I was like, 

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OK, that's like just enough 
momentum to like start feeling 

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good about myself again. 
And then I remember the prelim, 

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you know, I went into it 
thinking it was the final. 

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And I like, I think I like 
almost won the my like heat. 

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I like Mikulski just barely out 
kicked me for for the the heat 

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win. 
And I just remember thinking 

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like. 
These. 

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Guys shouldn't have let me do 
that cuz like I like started 

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feeling like really good about 
myself and that gave me like 

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even more confidence going into 
the final. 

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Obviously that didn't make the 
team, but I I feel like I 

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executed the race and like 
exactly how I thought things 

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were going to play out and 
exactly how I wanted to run my 

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own race and everything kind of 
played out the way that I 

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thought. 
And I think I raced as good as I

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possibly could have. 
And aside from, like, you know, 

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a breakout season for Corrigan, 
just like running out of his 

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mind at the trials and then also
at the the pen. 

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Race to like hit the standard. 
You know, I was like actually on

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the team for like a week until 
he hit that standard. 

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So which was like, you know, a 
tough blow, but like I like just

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didn't do enough to to make the 
team myself so. 

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I was super proud of getting 
back there and the race that I 

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had, but not the storybook 
ending that I had wished. 

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Now we've passed the 2024 
timeline, how did you then 

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reassess? 
Sort of like trying to find that

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storybook ending. 
I I think, yeah, because, well, 

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yeah, I think everyone wants to 
go out on top, you know, and so.

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Yeah, 'cause I was going to ask 
like the Mile in Sterling on 

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August 30th in, yeah, Great 
Britain for you. 

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Like that's the last time you 
pin a bib to your kit and it's 

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like, that's not what you 
imagined. 

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Yeah, no, definitely not. 
Yeah, I I think after not making

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the team this year, I was like 
not running well. 

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And then I realized like, I 
didn't want that to be my like 

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my last race and not that I 
like. 

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Wanted to like. 
I I didn't think I was going to 

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have like an outstanding race. 
To like close. 

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Out the year, but I just didn't 
want that feeling to be like the

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last feeling. 
So I kind of went into the the 

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remainder of the summer like not
really knowing what I wanted to 

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do and then like I knew I was 
flying back to Sweden like right

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after USA and my team mates 
Kieran and and Thomas, they were

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both racing a 3K in Stockholm. 
And I was like, well, I got to 

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jump in this like they're coming
all this way. 

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I might as well like jump in 
with them and just have fun. 

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And it went fine. 
But it was fun. 

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Just like, you know, going into 
a race, like really not caring 

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about how it went, just like 
wanting to have fun and doing 

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warm up and cooldown and 
everything with those guys. 

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And I just made a decision to 
like make the. 

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Rest of the summer like. 
Just really enjoyable and like 

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savor the last couple moments 
like doing this and just having 

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fun with it and and being with 
teammates. 

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So yeah, I jumped into that that
mile mainly because Kieran and 

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Christina, we're we're both 
doing that as well and. 

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Colleen was doing that and so 
that was like is like super low 

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key, but it is also like so 
hype. 

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It is like really cool event. 
It was a ton of fun. 

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And then yeah, I got got to do 
5th Ave. 

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Mile. 
And so yeah, yeah, 5th Ave. was 

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00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:51,720
like my last pro race and I. 
Finished finished with a a road 

222
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:57,480
mile PR so go out with APR as my
last race. 

223
00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,520
So happy about that and that was
obviously a ton of fun. 5th Ave.

224
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:04,880
is like it's so sick. 
It's so much fun they they put 

225
00:14:04,880 --> 00:14:07,760
on such a good event and they're
so nice and accommodating and 

226
00:14:07,760 --> 00:14:11,160
everything so. 
I was like the perfect way to go

227
00:14:11,160 --> 00:14:16,000
out, just like having fun and 
really like savoring everything 

228
00:14:16,000 --> 00:14:21,680
and hang out with teammates and 
just trying to do it like. 

229
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,400
No stress and just enjoying 
myself. 

230
00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:28,240
All right, so 5th Ave. counts as
a road mile PB, but I think like

231
00:14:28,240 --> 00:14:31,880
the important thing about that 
one mile race that you did on 

232
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:36,400
August 30th is that you did 
sneak under 4 minutes 359, which

233
00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:42,320
a very underrated stat is the 
range you've got of how long 

234
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,040
you've been breaking for, which 
is from 2009 all the way to 

235
00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:47,720
2025. 
Yeah, there's a couple years in 

236
00:14:47,720 --> 00:14:50,640
there that are like missing but 
but still. 

237
00:14:50,640 --> 00:14:54,240
I mean, so I guess when when I 
brought this up to the Sidious 

238
00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:57,800
Mac group chat, you know, some 
questions to ask you, you know, 

239
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,720
they brought up the range of how
long you've broken for. 

240
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:05,760
But then also, do you miss races
like the 2008 Big 10 indoor mile

241
00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:09,680
that went out in 228? 
Not at this age, no. 

242
00:15:10,480 --> 00:15:15,560
But shit, that that race was so 
much fun in the moment that was.

243
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,000
That was on YouTube and like so 
much fun to watch. 

244
00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,000
Yeah, ridiculous. 
Just like absolutely ridiculous 

245
00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,280
200 flat track. 
Just like I feel like you're 

246
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,160
like you're running like 
sideways half the time around 

247
00:15:27,160 --> 00:15:31,840
those turns. 
Yeah, at this age, no way I 

248
00:15:31,840 --> 00:15:32,920
would. 
I don't even know if I could 

249
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:36,480
finish a 200 flat track. 
Trying to run like I think we 

250
00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:39,080
ran like 152 or something like 
the latter. 

251
00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,120
I don't know. 
One 54152, I don't know. 

252
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,160
It fell fast at the time. 
Don't miss that. 

253
00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:49,000
But it was that was a sweet race
in the moment. 

254
00:15:49,480 --> 00:15:51,680
All right, so we've kind of 
started just sort of like the 

255
00:15:51,680 --> 00:15:55,680
look down memory lane. 
And so from now, I guess, like, 

256
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,440
and before we get into just sort
of what's what's next for you, 

257
00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,760
let's go, I guess, you know, 
throughout some of these 

258
00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:05,040
highlights of your career. 
So before we even get to like 

259
00:16:05,080 --> 00:16:08,360
really the the pivotal moment 
was 2012, at least. 

260
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:11,560
Like in your pro career, people 
forget just like, I guess how 

261
00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:15,040
rocky and turbulent those first 
couple years were. 

262
00:16:15,240 --> 00:16:18,120
You did the one year at 
Wisconsin, then you follow Jerry

263
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:21,640
to Portland, but then it's like 
a stress factor in your 

264
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:26,000
navicular right before 
undergoing surgery in 2010, just

265
00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:28,400
like a turbulent year of running
in 2011. 

266
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,640
So what do you remember about 
those years is just sort of like

267
00:16:31,640 --> 00:16:33,720
a formative period for you. 
And then I also like, what was 

268
00:16:33,720 --> 00:16:37,720
it like being a teenager like on
this team of grown men at the. 

269
00:16:37,760 --> 00:16:41,680
Yeah, that, that was crazy. 
I, I actually enjoyed it. 

270
00:16:43,520 --> 00:16:46,920
The yeah, like definitely I had 
success right out of the gate. 

271
00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,080
So I made the World Championship
team in the 5K. 

272
00:16:49,480 --> 00:16:54,720
My first year and I was like 
kind of really unexpected. 

273
00:16:56,280 --> 00:17:01,200
So like that in itself, I think 
it probably like helped me a ton

274
00:17:01,200 --> 00:17:03,600
going through those, those 
injury years 'cause I had the 

275
00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,440
confidence knowing that I like 
could, could do it at the high, 

276
00:17:07,440 --> 00:17:12,839
at this level. 
And yeah, those two years were 

277
00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:17,480
pretty rough. 
That's when 1322 at US as gets 

278
00:17:17,480 --> 00:17:19,680
you on a on a World Team. 
Yeah. 

279
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,200
And I, I, yeah, yeah, I didn't 
even have to hit a standard. 

280
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:27,960
I had like the B standard. 
Yeah, the A standard I think was

281
00:17:27,960 --> 00:17:32,120
1315 at the time. 
Yeah. 

282
00:17:32,120 --> 00:17:33,040
Or something like that. 
You didn't. 

283
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:35,080
That was your fastest race of 
2009? 

284
00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:36,000
Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah. 

285
00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,040
But yeah, I like, yeah, it was a
good year. 

286
00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:43,360
Injuries sucked. 
I'd like didn't run for six 

287
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,920
months. 
I think after the surgery and 

288
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:49,040
then that that whole next year 
recovering from that was yeah, 

289
00:17:49,120 --> 00:17:52,600
that was maybe even worse. 
Honestly, it was it was pretty 

290
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:55,480
rough. 
But then I guess it was like a 

291
00:17:55,480 --> 00:17:58,960
full year after that surgery 
where I like started feeling 

292
00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:01,520
like myself again and started 
getting some like positive 

293
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,160
momentum being on the. 
The protein it had, it had its 

294
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:08,880
perks. 
Like I was definitely like, you 

295
00:18:08,880 --> 00:18:11,960
know? 
No real expectations for 

296
00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,480
anything, just like improved. 
Definitely treated like the 

297
00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:20,560
little brother of the group. 
Like I got shit from like the 

298
00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:25,760
older guys every single day. 
And like training was hard, you 

299
00:18:25,760 --> 00:18:33,320
know, like tagging camp I think 
the year before finished fourth 

300
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:37,920
at World Championships by like 
point point O3 or something like

301
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,680
that. 
So that was the like that was 

302
00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,240
the standard that we were 
training at. 

303
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:47,160
And you know Jerry being who he 
is, there was, there is no like 

304
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:50,360
there is no floaties, there is 
no leash. 

305
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,920
I just got thrown into the deep 
end basically and like had to 

306
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,800
survive as much as I could. 
So it was like training was like

307
00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,000
hard. 
I remember a couple of times 

308
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,440
where I was like so tired from 
training, I had to do like 

309
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:11,000
back-to-back like 35 minute 
single days just to like recover

310
00:19:11,000 --> 00:19:16,040
enough to like work out like the
next the next workout. 

311
00:19:17,640 --> 00:19:22,760
So yeah, it was tough, but I 
like my body adapted really well

312
00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:27,840
to it that first year and I made
like ton of jumps and fitness 

313
00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:29,720
and everything. 
So, and I think it helped me a 

314
00:19:29,720 --> 00:19:33,920
lot, like just like learn how to
like work hard and everything. 

315
00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,360
But yeah, it was tough. 
Who are your guys? 

316
00:19:38,360 --> 00:19:42,320
I guess that like helped you 
kind of fit in on the on the 

317
00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:45,480
team because like, I guess now 
when we look back at just sort 

318
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:49,080
of like the whole history of the
Bauerman track club and this is 

319
00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:54,920
back when it was just OTC, like 
a, but Jerry's group of it, like

320
00:19:54,920 --> 00:19:57,960
you've seen everyone who's come 
through like the whole thing. 

321
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,680
And so you became that person in
the later years, but who was it 

322
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:03,480
for you at the beginning? 
It it was a little bit of 

323
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:06,080
everyone. 
I, I would say mainly like 

324
00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:11,000
tagging camp was definitely like
a, a vocal like teacher. 

325
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:17,520
He like, was really helpful and 
like, you know, actively 

326
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:22,640
teaching. 
And it's interesting because 

327
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,040
like Solinsky tagging Camp and 
Simon Byru all had like, very 

328
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:31,240
different, like skill sets, and 
they were kind of very different

329
00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:36,040
types of athletes. 
So I just like, I really tried 

330
00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,120
to like pick little pieces of 
like what each of them did best 

331
00:20:40,120 --> 00:20:45,440
and try to like learn from them 
and take that with me and you 

332
00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,880
know it, It helped me a ton. 
I ended up living with Simon for

333
00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:52,360
two years. 
So I like I learned a lot from. 

334
00:20:52,360 --> 00:20:57,560
Simon about like, just how to, I
guess, live as a professional 

335
00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:01,080
athlete, like live. 
Like, you know, 24/7 as a 

336
00:21:01,080 --> 00:21:05,720
professional athlete, we were 
like pretty opposite athletes. 

337
00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:12,440
So I I probably tended to try to
emulate. 

338
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,680
Sewinski and Tegan camp more 
like athletically. 

339
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:23,120
So I took a little bit from like
Sewinski's mindset of like, just

340
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,280
hammer all the time. 
Like I ended up like absorbing 

341
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,600
that. 
Not right away, but like later 

342
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:33,560
in my career and then tagging 
camp in, in the like the way 

343
00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:37,720
that he mentally went into 
workouts and races. 

344
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:42,560
I, I tried to do that as well 
where he's like, he's like one 

345
00:21:42,560 --> 00:21:45,280
of the most competitive guys 
that we've, we've had on the 

346
00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:51,960
team and not like racing in, in 
workouts, but like bringing that

347
00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:57,640
mentality into like like 5K 
specific VO2 workouts, that, 

348
00:21:57,640 --> 00:22:00,200
that kind of thing. 
So yeah, a little bit of 

349
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,240
everyone. 
And they were like, you know, 

350
00:22:03,240 --> 00:22:06,240
they were hard on me, but they 
were also, like, super helpful. 

351
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:10,200
And I couldn't have asked for, 
like, better role models. 

352
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:13,920
What did you, I guess like see 
in Jerry at in that one year at 

353
00:22:13,920 --> 00:22:16,880
Wisconsin that like gave you 
just like the blind trust of 

354
00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:19,600
being like, all right, I'm going
to put my career into this guy's

355
00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,400
hands and it ended up becoming 
like the entirety of your 

356
00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,000
career. 
Yeah, I, I think a lot of it, 

357
00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,960
well, I not a lot. 
I I'd say part of it was like 

358
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:33,040
knowing the success that he had 
had, like I think he, they won 

359
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:37,320
the big 10s like the previous 
nine years for like maybe 8 

360
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,440
years that I got there and they 
were like. 

361
00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:43,120
One of the powerhouse programs 
in, in the US at the time. 

362
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:47,360
So I knew he was a good coach. 
He he could coach athletes to do

363
00:22:47,360 --> 00:22:51,840
really well. 
You know, part of it was I had 

364
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,640
seen what Tegan Camp and 
Solinsky had had done on the 

365
00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:58,880
track the the previous couple 
years. 

366
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,920
And you know, they were kind of 
the standard in in the US at the

367
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:09,200
time. 
And so I obviously wanted to be 

368
00:23:09,200 --> 00:23:14,800
that at some point in my career.
So I knew he had that going for 

369
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,560
them. 
But I think more than anything 

370
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:25,040
was like the way that he got you
excited and like made you want 

371
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,840
to be like a better athlete 
almost is like I already had 

372
00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,360
like huge goals, but he would 
like he was like. 

373
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,960
Combustion to that fire he was 
like extra wood like going on to

374
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,560
that fire that I already had in 
me and he was able to like 

375
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,440
motivate me and excite me in a 
way to like just be the best 

376
00:23:46,440 --> 00:23:50,000
athlete that I could be and I 
there's just like a vibe there 

377
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:53,080
that was like really strong and 
really good and. 

378
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:56,560
It it's just something that just
clicks and you just like, you 

379
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:59,320
just know it deep down in you 
and I just, I just knew it. 

380
00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:03,640
Does that come out when you say,
I don't know, for example, like,

381
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,720
hey, I want to qualify for 
worlds and he says, well, why 

382
00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:10,200
not like make the final or 
something like or is is that 

383
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,360
what that looks like when when 
it comes to just sort of like 

384
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:14,680
adding? 
Yeah, I, I think the 

385
00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,040
conversation would have probably
been something like, so like, 

386
00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:20,920
what are, what are your goals as
like an athlete, like long term?

387
00:24:20,920 --> 00:24:25,440
And I'd be like, I want to, I 
want to, you know, be an 

388
00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,960
Olympian and I want to medal at 
the Olympics someday. 

389
00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:31,520
And he'd be like, yeah, like you
can do that. 

390
00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,840
Like, like we're going to get 
there. 

391
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:35,280
Like. 
And it's just like the, 

392
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,800
something about the way that he 
said it and like, I think just 

393
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,760
the belief that he had in it. 
Like I was like, oh, like I've 

394
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:48,080
never told anyone this. 
And like, and you like are like 

395
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:50,400
egging me on. 
And I, it's just like, I don't 

396
00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:51,760
know, it's just really good 
feeling. 

397
00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,480
Yeah. 
Is that a real life example that

398
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,640
maybe happened around 20 before 
2012? 

399
00:24:58,840 --> 00:25:01,200
Yeah, yeah, probably. 
Yeah, yeah. 

400
00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:03,360
I mean, we definitely had those 
conversations. 

401
00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,600
And yeah, I mean, I, I had, I 
had the big goals like early on.

402
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:16,600
And he, I don't know, it's just 
something about like our belief 

403
00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:21,200
in each other was just like 
there was never any question to 

404
00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:24,680
it. 
So it like made the belief even 

405
00:25:24,680 --> 00:25:27,720
stronger if that makes sense. 
All right, so then another 

406
00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:33,000
component as I went back and I 
looked at this 2016 Sports 

407
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,600
Illustrated feature that I did 
on Pascal, which is also about 

408
00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,360
you just sort of leading into 
the Rio Olympics. 

409
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:43,800
And you know, I think it was 
titled something like the making

410
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,120
of Evan Jaeger as America's 
next, as America's greatest 

411
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:49,120
steep oil chaser or something 
along those lines. 

412
00:25:49,120 --> 00:25:53,280
I I forget what it was, but I 
guess I want to break down just 

413
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:58,880
like who gets credit for 
building, you know, you the 

414
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,240
different parts of your race and
how you mastered the 

415
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,200
steeplechase. 
So you know, between Pascal, 

416
00:26:05,200 --> 00:26:08,640
Jerry, maybe you know, Dan 
Heuling and some of your 

417
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,720
training partners, like who gets
credit for kind of, hey, like 

418
00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:15,920
the way you hurdled, the way 
you, you know, positioned 

419
00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,160
yourself in races. 
So like, break it down for me, 

420
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,400
you know, from your support 
system. 

421
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,440
Yeah. 
So, you know, Jerry was always, 

422
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:29,240
I think like Jerry wrote like 
99% of my training. 

423
00:26:29,680 --> 00:26:35,080
I think fitness wise, I'd have 
to give a bulk of the like the 

424
00:26:35,080 --> 00:26:39,840
nod to Jerry because he was 
mainly writing the training and 

425
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:45,440
then him and Pascal would kind 
of talk about steeple specific 

426
00:26:45,440 --> 00:26:48,280
workouts. 
And I, I don't exactly know like

427
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,200
how those conversations went 
because it was always I, I was 

428
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,600
never a part of it. 
I would just show up on the line

429
00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,680
and that would be the workout. 
But I know that they discussed 

430
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:01,400
like how to structure steeple 
workouts. 

431
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:03,760
So passkey definitely gets a 
little bit there. 

432
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:13,440
Passkey was I I'd give 100% of 
credit to Pascal in my my 

433
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:18,840
hurtling technique and water 
jumping technique. 

434
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:24,560
Yeah, I I would say just about 
everything specific to the 

435
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:28,760
steeple, like technique wise is 
is all him. 

436
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:33,320
And then like obviously all my 
training partners, like I'm not 

437
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,920
doing everything by myself. 
So like Dan, Andy Bear, Matt 

438
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:42,640
Hughes at at some point Duncan. 
Well, I guess for the, for the 

439
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:47,120
early phase it was like, yeah, 
Dan, because it was mainly just 

440
00:27:47,120 --> 00:27:52,360
us 2 for, for a while. 
Dan helped me out like a lot in 

441
00:27:52,360 --> 00:27:56,520
in steeple workouts and then 
Baron Hughes as well when when 

442
00:27:56,520 --> 00:28:00,160
they joined. 
What about mindset wise, like 

443
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,520
who would get you in the right 
frame of mind And also just sort

444
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:06,960
of assessing, hey, like this is 
an event that's been like 

445
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,960
dominated by the East Africans, 
but it's like getting you to 

446
00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:13,240
believe that like you could be 
one of the guys to breakthrough.

447
00:28:14,520 --> 00:28:18,320
You know that that came pretty 
quick because like the success 

448
00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:23,120
came pretty quick. 
So like my my goals, obviously 

449
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:27,680
they like changed pretty fast. 
I'd say like, it was a 

450
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:31,640
combination of Jerry and Pasco, 
like teaching me. 

451
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:37,200
How to think about positioning 
and like what to do in the race 

452
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:40,840
for the first few. 
I mean, the the first race it 

453
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,880
was like it was pretty strung 
out. 

454
00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:46,760
Dan Healing just led the race 
and I just sat right behind him.

455
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:48,800
So there was no real like 
tactics to worry about. 

456
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:55,080
I just waited and kicked. 
But I remember Jerry like giving

457
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:59,520
me priests or us talking about 
specific instructions in Monaco,

458
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:02,480
which was like my first, I would
say real test. 

459
00:29:04,200 --> 00:29:08,880
And it was basically just like 
get out behind the Kenyans and 

460
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:12,920
then pass them as they started 
dying off. 

461
00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,600
And you know, it wasn't really 
that hard of strategy to 

462
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,000
implement. 
It was like it was pretty easy. 

463
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,040
And thankfully I like just had 
the fitness to run well. 

464
00:29:23,440 --> 00:29:29,280
And then I, I would say like 
championship wise, it took me a 

465
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:34,280
while to like figure out like 
how to run that and what to do 

466
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,760
and how to feel comfortable. 
And I think a lot of that was me

467
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:42,840
just like, you know, finding 
things out for myself, like a 

468
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:49,000
little bit of trial and error 
and just like getting races in, 

469
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,160
like getting experience. 
You can't force experience. 

470
00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:57,160
So like that can only come with 
getting in the races. 

471
00:29:57,160 --> 00:30:01,360
So a lot of that was myself. 
And then I just got to a point 

472
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,800
in fitness where like it, it 
kind of just made sense to start

473
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,360
going to the front and pushing. 
I felt like pretty confident 

474
00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:15,120
that I was from like 2015 
through like 2018. 

475
00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:19,920
I just felt like I was the best,
like flat. 

476
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:25,120
Runner in the field. 5K wise, so
I just thought it made sense to 

477
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:31,720
just make it as hard of a like 
aerobic effort as possible and 

478
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:34,400
you know it didn't know it 
didn't always work out for me, 

479
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:41,120
but I felt like I did better 
that way than just letting it 

480
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,160
come down to like a tactical 
like last 300 cuz that was 

481
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,040
always like really tough for me 
like. 

482
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Ezekiel Kemboy was just like 
unreal at that and I just 

483
00:30:49,800 --> 00:30:53,400
realized like I was never going 
to beat him in that style race. 

484
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:59,560
So I I had to change something. 
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485
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486
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487
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Yeah, it's that time of year 

488
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Last year, I was told that my ad

489
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490
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492
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494
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495
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497
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499
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503
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504
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505
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506
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507
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508
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509
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:38,640
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510
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511
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512
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513
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:53,240
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514
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:59,120
All right. 
So you talked about how the 

515
00:33:00,240 --> 00:33:03,320
success came really quick. 
So then Monaco, you know, that 

516
00:33:03,320 --> 00:33:05,760
was sort of like the tipping 
point where it's like, all 

517
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,760
right, you went from, you know, 
at that point, what was it just 

518
00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:12,320
like 5 steeple, four or five 
steeples before Monaco? 

519
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:17,480
And then you're instantly just 
sort of into like, at least like

520
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,080
the medal conversation because 
there were a couple Kenyans 

521
00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:22,880
ahead of you, but then the 
Olympic team could only be 3. 

522
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,920
So I mean, how did you handle 
that side of things, which sort 

523
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:30,120
of like, all right, like this is
my first year doing this event, 

524
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:33,680
but like heading into London, 
like you've already got a, a, a 

525
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:35,360
shot at least at the, at the 
medals. 

526
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:39,600
Yeah, I, I don't know, I, I 
think at that time it, it felt, 

527
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,840
it didn't feel like overwhelming
at all. 

528
00:33:41,920 --> 00:33:45,480
It kind of just felt the next 
step a little bit. 

529
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:49,040
I, I definitely remember 
thinking that like, even though 

530
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:54,600
I, I think I was seeded like 6th
going into the Olympics and I 

531
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:58,600
ended up finishing sixth. 
And I just remember thinking 

532
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,800
like, yeah, I'm like in the mix.
But the top guys were I, I did 

533
00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:08,159
feel like they were like so good
that I, there was going to have 

534
00:34:08,159 --> 00:34:13,520
to be some like some bad days 
for some people and I was going 

535
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:17,800
to have to have like a perfect 
race to like sneak into the 

536
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:21,320
medals. 
So I, I didn't really feel like 

537
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,600
there was any pressure to do 
anything crazy. 

538
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:28,679
I was just super hopeful and I 
like that was my goal was to 

539
00:34:28,679 --> 00:34:29,880
meddle. 
But. 

540
00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:33,520
I I didn't feel any pressure cuz
I didn't think that that was 

541
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:37,960
like an expectation. 
So yeah, I just went into it 

542
00:34:37,960 --> 00:34:43,719
like trying to stay as relaxed 
as possible and yeah, just give 

543
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:46,719
myself a shot basically. 
How good, I guess did it feel? 

544
00:34:46,719 --> 00:34:50,040
I guess when it's you and Don, I
think I'd still when I've gone 

545
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,679
back and rewatch these races 
like it's, it's such a cool 

546
00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:54,440
moment of the two of you hitting
the front. 

547
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:58,400
Yeah, yeah. 
It was pretty surreal because I 

548
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:02,560
like had no intentions of 
leading the race like I did. 

549
00:35:02,560 --> 00:35:05,440
Not even when I was up there. 
I was like I. 

550
00:35:05,720 --> 00:35:09,520
Don't want to be here, like not 
not because I I didn't like 

551
00:35:09,520 --> 00:35:12,680
leading, but like I just wanted 
to conserve energy and like. 

552
00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:17,880
Kind of follow and and chase, 
but we were running so slow that

553
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,600
it didn't matter, But it was 
definitely like it was it was 

554
00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,400
pretty cool moment. 
But like at the same time, it's 

555
00:35:24,400 --> 00:35:29,760
like usually when you watch 
races and you see people like 

556
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:33,440
when you see that happening, you
like, do you know that they're 

557
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:35,760
probably not going to do well in
the end of the race? 

558
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,120
So that was also in the back of 
my mind. 

559
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,560
I was like, I know this isn't 
going to this isn't going to be 

560
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,520
how like the things and finish 
and end up. 

561
00:35:44,520 --> 00:35:49,400
But yeah, it's like it was 
definitely a pretty cool 

562
00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,720
experience. 
And like having done there 

563
00:35:52,720 --> 00:35:56,880
actually was a bit of like a 
calming factor because I think 

564
00:35:56,880 --> 00:36:00,560
if I was up there by myself, I I
would have been like pretty 

565
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,760
stressed. 
But like just like not not even 

566
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,360
that we were like super tight or
anything, but just like having 

567
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:09,040
you know, your teammate up 
there. 

568
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,320
It was, it was definitely a 
calming factor. 

569
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,200
I remember thinking that. 
I guess like also we we glossed 

570
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,480
over the fact that when you 
broke the American record that 

571
00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,680
that year the all time list look
like this. 

572
00:36:20,680 --> 00:36:24,360
So it was you eight O 6, Dan 
Lincoln, eight O 8, Henry Marsh,

573
00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:28,720
eight O 9, Mark Krogan, eight O 
9, Brian Deemer 813. 

574
00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:33,720
And now I guess today that list 
you're you're at the top 8 flat.

575
00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,600
Then Kenneth Brooks eight O 6, 
Stanley Cabenet eight O 8, 

576
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:41,600
Hilary Bohr 8 O 8, Dan Lincoln 
eight O 8 and Dan Lincoln's 

577
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,840
holding on there, I think for I 
guess like what what do you 

578
00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:47,280
think were the big jumps? 
I mean, if we looked at the top 

579
00:36:47,280 --> 00:36:51,520
ten all time times, like for the
US, you've got I think still now

580
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,920
nine of the top ten with Kenneth
Brooks is the only one, I think 

581
00:36:54,920 --> 00:36:57,760
who breaks that up with his run 
from from Paris. 

582
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:01,240
But the evolution on the 
American side, like, did you 

583
00:37:01,240 --> 00:37:04,400
sort of feel that like, as your 
career was progressing, it's 

584
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,720
like, all right, like, I think 
this event is catching on and 

585
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:09,400
like, as a whole, we're making 
waves. 

586
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:12,360
Yeah, for sure. 
Especially I think, I think the 

587
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:18,240
big, the year that it like 
showed itself the most was was 

588
00:37:18,240 --> 00:37:21,920
2015. 
We had, we had like all three 

589
00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:24,760
men and all three women making 
the final. 

590
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:31,560
And that was, I mean, that was 
pretty rare at that point that 

591
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:33,560
that kind of stuff did not 
happen. 

592
00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:36,680
So I remember thinking that that
was like a really cool moment 

593
00:37:38,360 --> 00:37:43,240
cuz you know, distance running 
as a whole was like not great in

594
00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:48,080
the US when I got into the 
sports and to like see a change 

595
00:37:48,080 --> 00:37:51,200
and happen so fast was like 
really cool to be a part of. 

596
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:57,000
And it was cool to like feel 
like you, you played a part in 

597
00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,480
that as well. 
So I don't so that's 2015. 

598
00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:02,600
You finished 6th at worlds that 
year. 

599
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,880
I don't want to gloss over 2013 
fourteen really quick 13 good 

600
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:08,240
one fifth place at World 
championship. 

601
00:38:08,240 --> 00:38:11,520
So I think the important one 
here is the the 13 O2 that you 

602
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,800
ran in in Brussels. 
Like that was like the big 

603
00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,920
moment of that year following 
year you have you kind of run 

604
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:22,640
back in the very beginning of 
the year, a similar schedule to 

605
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,800
2013 and it was an off year. 
So we don't get sort of like 

606
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,680
where you would have finished 
like in the world, but like you 

607
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:36,280
were just running faster each 
time out with like 5 K 1500 I 

608
00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:38,720
think was a little bit faster, 
which would have converted to, 

609
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:43,120
you know, you ran 353 for the 
for the mile that year. 

610
00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,560
So it gets like what was 
important from 2013 and 2014 

611
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:50,520
that and then obviously 
piggybacking off of 15 that 

612
00:38:50,520 --> 00:38:53,840
ultimately leads to success in 
2016. 

613
00:38:54,480 --> 00:39:01,080
Yeah, 1313 was like, you know 
like I had my feet wet from the 

614
00:39:01,120 --> 00:39:03,160
the previous year of steepling 
for the first time. 

615
00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:05,440
So I. 
Was a lot, a lot more like 

616
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:10,240
comfortable in the event, 
confident, Yeah, things things 

617
00:39:10,240 --> 00:39:17,120
went well, stayed healthy. 
I mean, really. 12131415161718I 

618
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:19,840
was generally healthy all those 
years. 

619
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:26,360
So it's just like so easy, not 
easy, sorry, but it's a lot 

620
00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,560
easier to keep progressing when 
you're just staying healthy. 

621
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,160
So and I was gaining more 
experience and getting into like

622
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:38,800
the sweet spot of development 
and age and training and 

623
00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:43,800
everything. 
So 2014 coming off of 2013 was 

624
00:39:43,800 --> 00:39:47,840
like an off year. 
And the big goal was like just 

625
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,080
run as fast as possible. 
Do some of the diamond leagues 

626
00:39:52,240 --> 00:39:55,920
chase fast times. 
There's no global championships,

627
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:59,920
so there's no like major peaking
moment. 

628
00:40:00,480 --> 00:40:04,480
You don't have to like limit 
training for USAS and then again

629
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:05,400
for. 
Worlds. 

630
00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:08,760
So it's just like. 
Trying to get as fit as possible

631
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,560
and get in fast times. 
And yeah, the the year went 

632
00:40:12,560 --> 00:40:15,960
well. 
It was a good build off at 13. 

633
00:40:16,160 --> 00:40:22,960
And then I remember Jarius B 
rest B retch, rest in peace. 

634
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:30,080
He won every single Diamond 
League that year in the steeple 

635
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:34,320
and the Diamond League final and
he was just unbeatable. 

636
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:39,760
Erased him a couple times. 
Obviously I got beat, but he 

637
00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:41,920
like pushed me just a couple 
fast times. 

638
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:46,640
And I think I had finished like 
second at a Diamond League. 

639
00:40:46,720 --> 00:40:50,080
And I feel like that was the 
first year that I had like 

640
00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:55,080
really arrived as like one of 
the top players in the steeple. 

641
00:40:55,200 --> 00:41:00,040
And yeah, I had good success all
year. 

642
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:02,720
And I just remember thinking 
like. 

643
00:41:03,680 --> 00:41:10,560
Going into 2015, I was like, I'm
I'm pouring everything I can in 

644
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,280
into this year and I'm just 
going to just be an. 

645
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:21,280
Animal basically and I, yeah, I 
remember I thought about, I 

646
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:24,640
literally thought about like 
meddling every single day 

647
00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:29,160
training like that whole next 
year I was just like obsessed 

648
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:35,240
with it and so like, yeah, just.
You know, super motivated and 

649
00:41:35,480 --> 00:41:39,560
everything like every workout, 
every morning run, every maybe 

650
00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:42,400
not every double, but like every
like core session. 

651
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,680
I was thinking about it. 
I was just like obsessed. 

652
00:41:44,720 --> 00:41:50,840
And yeah, I poured a lot into 
myself that that next year and 

653
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:56,160
got like super, super fit. 
Yeah, we, we, we also changed up

654
00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,080
training a little bit to 
incorporate a lot more speed 

655
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:02,600
than we had in previous years. 
And it just like something just 

656
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,880
felt like, it just clicked in me
with that type of training. 

657
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:12,800
And yeah, just like the year 
ended up being just like, better

658
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,840
than I had imagined, basically. 
Yeah, OK, so there's two big 

659
00:42:17,840 --> 00:42:19,680
moments I want to touch on from 
2015. 

660
00:42:19,680 --> 00:42:25,160
So and I, you know, one of them 
for sure, but the, the, the 

661
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:29,520
first one would be the 332 in 
Portland that you ran for the 

662
00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,160
1500 like one of the most fun 
races. 

663
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,480
Another one to go back and and 
re watch. 

664
00:42:34,720 --> 00:42:37,080
Do you ever regret? 
I guess not not focusing on the 

665
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:43,200
1500 for a certain period of of 
your career because like I, you 

666
00:42:43,520 --> 00:42:45,200
know, this, this came up in our 
chat. 

667
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:49,280
Like if you hadn't been with 
Jerry, this maybe would have 

668
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,080
been like there would have been 
a a part like a year or two 

669
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:53,520
where you would have focused 
just on the 15th. 

670
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:57,760
Yeah, yeah, for for sure. 
I don't. 

671
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,240
I don't. 
Know if I would say like I 

672
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:05,000
regret it I think like I would 
have done much better in today's

673
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:09,640
1500 game than when I was 
running because like when I was 

674
00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:16,440
running it was still like you 
know slow races big kicks I. 

675
00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:20,600
I, I think I still could have 
run well, but that I don't think

676
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,680
that that would have been like 
the way for me to do my best. 

677
00:43:23,680 --> 00:43:27,120
I think I would have if I like 
focus my whole career on the 

678
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:33,800
1500 and like been running in in
this style of like racing, I 

679
00:43:33,800 --> 00:43:36,320
think I would have been a little
bit better suited that I like 

680
00:43:36,320 --> 00:43:38,040
would have played into my hands 
a little bit better. 

681
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:44,240
So that would have been fun. 
But I don't compare myself to 

682
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,160
like Centro and think that like 
I would have. 

683
00:43:48,360 --> 00:43:51,360
I, I don't think I would have 
been better than Centro had I 

684
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:54,000
focused on the 1500 my, my whole
career. 

685
00:43:56,800 --> 00:43:58,840
I do think I could have been 
pretty good. 

686
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:02,720
But I I still think I I made the
right decision in in the 

687
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,960
steeple. 
Unless there was a carbon copy 

688
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,880
of you, there wouldn't have been
a way to like double up and do 

689
00:44:07,880 --> 00:44:11,400
and and do both and and give you
know your your all into into 

690
00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:14,080
both of them. 
All right, the other moment from

691
00:44:14,720 --> 00:44:21,440
2015, obviously Paris, it's a 
lot of people's Roman Empire and

692
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:25,080
like they still think about it. 
How often do you think of that 

693
00:44:25,080 --> 00:44:30,240
last barrier? 
You know, I think about that 

694
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:35,440
race pretty, I guess pretty 
regularly. 

695
00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:40,000
Yeah, it definitely like 
probably definitely more than 

696
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,880
like once a month it during the 
track season. 

697
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:48,200
Yeah, like way more. 
I guess since the track season, 

698
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:53,280
I haven't thought about it like 
like all the time, but like it's

699
00:44:53,280 --> 00:44:54,720
still. 
Starting to fade a little bit, 

700
00:44:54,760 --> 00:44:57,000
yeah. 
No, I, I don't know. 

701
00:44:57,440 --> 00:44:59,440
It's still like more than once a
month. 

702
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:01,800
It's, it's regular, it's 
decently regular. 

703
00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:08,880
But I, I honestly, it's, that's 
something that's going to haunt 

704
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:10,400
me. 
You know, for the rest of my 

705
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,840
life. 
But I think the, the silver 

706
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:20,680
lining in that is that I've been
thinking about this a little bit

707
00:45:20,720 --> 00:45:25,200
like the last few months. 
I, I really do think that that 

708
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,000
is the race that I'm like most 
proud of. 

709
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:35,200
Do you just subtract like that 
like a centimeter like it would 

710
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:38,640
have, it would have been like 
all time like? 

711
00:45:40,240 --> 00:45:45,880
Athletic like performance for 
myself, I think I pushed myself 

712
00:45:45,880 --> 00:45:50,480
to the but the absolute limit 
had like a mental switch going 

713
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:54,400
into that race to just, you 
know, like I said, the previous 

714
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,440
year, B retch hadn't hadn't been
beat and I think still going 

715
00:45:59,440 --> 00:46:04,040
into that race, I still think 
maybe he like hadn't been beat 

716
00:46:04,120 --> 00:46:06,960
in the Diamond League. 
Circuit or something he was 

717
00:46:06,960 --> 00:46:11,800
still like on on he was still 
the guy and so like I didn't 

718
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:17,600
really have anything to like 
point to being able to beat him 

719
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:22,680
other than like the the 1500 at 
Portland and some of the 

720
00:46:22,680 --> 00:46:26,320
workouts that I was doing. 
But I, I went into that race 

721
00:46:26,320 --> 00:46:30,920
just like not afraid of anything
and just like fully ready to 

722
00:46:30,920 --> 00:46:39,000
commit and just like, yeah, had 
like a really, really good 

723
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,320
mentality, like going into that 
and even mid race. 

724
00:46:42,320 --> 00:46:48,920
And yeah, I think just the way I
like approached that race and 

725
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,280
the way I executed it, except 
for the last barriers, just like

726
00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:56,960
I up until the last barrier, I 
don't think I could have done 

727
00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,200
anything any better. 
And it was up until that point, 

728
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:06,360
it was like a perfect race. 
And yeah, I got the most out of 

729
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,680
myself and a little a little too
much out of myself. 

730
00:47:09,720 --> 00:47:13,360
But yeah, it's gonna haunt me. 
But it I'm also like. 

731
00:47:13,360 --> 00:47:15,160
Proud. 
Yeah, yeah. 

732
00:47:16,240 --> 00:47:20,800
When it replays in your mind, 
like, what is the part of that 

733
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,960
final barrier that sticks out to
you the most? 

734
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:24,960
Is it clipping it, hitting the 
ground? 

735
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:27,960
And like, did it that all? 
I mean, 'cause you still, you 

736
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:30,000
know, you end up running 8 flat.
Yeah. 

737
00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:34,120
Like was there a moment where 
that whole thing happens in slow

738
00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:37,400
MO in your memory? 
Yeah, it's a, it's a bit in slow

739
00:47:37,400 --> 00:47:43,040
MO because yeah, like I remember
like my headspace when it was 

740
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:46,440
happening. 
I remember exactly what I was 

741
00:47:46,440 --> 00:47:47,680
thinking. 
Like what? 

742
00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:52,080
Were you thinking? 
From from the water barrier on 

743
00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,360
like when I took the water 
barrier, I was obviously like 

744
00:47:55,440 --> 00:47:59,240
super tired. 
I was like at, at my limit, took

745
00:47:59,240 --> 00:48:01,960
the water barrier, got over, 
Thank God. 

746
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:07,680
And like I, I do remember like 
coming down in the water pit and

747
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:14,000
just being like, like that just 
sucked the life out of me. 

748
00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,480
Basically. 
I remember just feeling like the

749
00:48:17,480 --> 00:48:20,120
last little bit of energy that I
had just got like pulled into 

750
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:24,440
the track. 
But I like kept myself up, got 

751
00:48:24,440 --> 00:48:27,080
out of it. 
And I remember coming around the

752
00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:30,960
curve and looked at the clock 
and I saw 7:40. 

753
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:36,480
I was like, holy shit, like I'm 
going to smash 8 minutes. 

754
00:48:37,040 --> 00:48:42,160
I was like got like a hit of 
adrenaline and then I was like, 

755
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,920
OK, like focus, get over the 
last barrier and then then 

756
00:48:46,920 --> 00:48:50,680
you're home free. 
Then I like I've I focused as 

757
00:48:50,680 --> 00:48:53,560
much as I could. 
I put everything I had into 

758
00:48:53,560 --> 00:48:56,280
getting over that last barrier. 
I don't know if I was running 

759
00:48:56,280 --> 00:49:01,760
like maybe a little too fast or.
I think I was just too tired, 

760
00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,640
honestly. 
But I like, just couldn't get 

761
00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:08,040
over it. 
And yeah, I remember the feeling

762
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:11,400
of hitting it. 
I remember. 

763
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:15,080
Hit it roll like hitting the 
track and rolling and just 

764
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,680
immediately thinking, all right,
get up. 

765
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:22,200
Like maybe you can still break 8
minutes and I just popped up as 

766
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,600
fast as I could, Sprint it as 
fast as I could. 

767
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:31,560
I was like looking at the clock 
counting down as as it was, I 

768
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:37,720
was coming up on it was like 
565758 or whatever and I crossed

769
00:49:37,720 --> 00:49:41,760
the line and I was like fuck, 
like I don't, I don't think I 

770
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,480
got it. 
So yeah, I have like, yeah, I 

771
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:50,360
have the entire last like 150 
like just. 

772
00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:54,280
Burned into my memory and it's I
don't think it's going anywhere 

773
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:57,120
anytime fast. 
All right, so I think I was in 

774
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:59,520
the stadium for that moment and 
I was in the mix zone. 

775
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:02,640
I I kind of just remember 
there's just shell shock, even 

776
00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,080
though like among like your 
competitors. 

777
00:50:04,080 --> 00:50:06,840
I remember Heron Lagat like 
passed through the mix zone and 

778
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,640
he was just like, I have no 
idea, like what, just what just 

779
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,160
happened. 
Like he was on pace to run 

780
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:15,880
something ridiculous and like, 
And so I'm, I'm curious, I guess

781
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,840
when you make your way through, 
I think you do come through the 

782
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:22,480
mix zone really quick and you 
have like that private moment, I

783
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,680
guess to yourself, like what, 
what's the shock and I guess 

784
00:50:26,680 --> 00:50:30,960
trauma that happens there? 
Yeah, I think the biggest thing 

785
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:38,680
is it was just just a lot of 
disappointment in, you know, 

786
00:50:39,440 --> 00:50:43,960
understanding that those moments
don't come around very often and

787
00:50:44,120 --> 00:50:48,320
just feeling like I messed up, 
like. 

788
00:50:49,120 --> 00:50:55,080
An extremely good opportunity to
to break 8 and run a really fast

789
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:59,280
time. 
And I mean at the time it's. 

790
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,440
Not like I like brushed it off 
very easily, but I was, I was 

791
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:07,440
like, there's going to be more 
opportunities, but like, damn 

792
00:51:07,440 --> 00:51:12,840
that that was a good opportunity
And you know, they just messed 

793
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:18,320
it up with with a mistake. 
And like I said, I I. 

794
00:51:18,400 --> 00:51:21,040
I don't know how much I could 
have done differently to to 

795
00:51:21,040 --> 00:51:24,600
change that other than like, you
know, conserving a little bit of

796
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:27,600
energy at some point, which 
like. 

797
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,880
You know, I wasn't, that's not 
what I was thinking about in the

798
00:51:31,880 --> 00:51:34,520
moment. 
I was just like riding the wave 

799
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:39,360
at the time. 
So yeah, just like missed 

800
00:51:39,360 --> 00:51:43,240
opportunity and that it sucked. 
Do you think it did affect just 

801
00:51:43,240 --> 00:51:46,160
you come worlds? 
I think later on that that 

802
00:51:46,160 --> 00:51:51,320
summer. 
No, no, I well, a little bit I I

803
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,520
think the biggest it wasn't like
the disappointment from the 

804
00:51:54,520 --> 00:51:59,720
race, cuz although there was 
like disappointment, I. 

805
00:51:59,720 --> 00:52:05,040
Was also in the at the same time
like shit, I'm like super fit 

806
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:08,320
right now. 
So like I proved to myself that 

807
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:12,200
I like I have the fitness to run
like 750-6757. 

808
00:52:12,760 --> 00:52:16,560
So while I'm like really 
disappointed in the moment, I'm 

809
00:52:16,560 --> 00:52:21,160
also like pretty excited about 
where I was at like fitness 

810
00:52:21,160 --> 00:52:29,600
wise. 
I think a big part was not, I 

811
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:34,760
had never really like and I 
guess conceptualize or like been

812
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:38,680
in the place where I was like 
best in the world. 

813
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,480
So it was like I like couldn't 
really. 

814
00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,120
I, I think I wasn't ready for 
being the favorite, I guess, or 

815
00:52:47,120 --> 00:52:51,560
being one of the favorites to 
win that year and feeling like 

816
00:52:51,560 --> 00:52:55,840
if I didn't win or like medal, 
it was going to be a 

817
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,800
disappointment. 
I, I hadn't really put myself in

818
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:06,400
that headspace, so that was like
pretty hard to wrap my head 

819
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:12,800
around and. 
Just mentally prep for, but I 

820
00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:18,520
think maybe even more than that 
was like I got back to the US 

821
00:53:18,520 --> 00:53:20,400
and we went straight back to 
altitude. 

822
00:53:20,520 --> 00:53:24,440
And I don't know if this was 
like a mental mistake or like 

823
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,760
physically I was starting to 
feel like a little burnt out. 

824
00:53:27,760 --> 00:53:33,280
But like everything was like 
everything felt like harder than

825
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,240
I would have thought. 
Like being in the fitness that I

826
00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:39,240
was. 
And I over the next, I think it 

827
00:53:39,240 --> 00:53:43,800
was like 5 weeks or something 
over the next chunk of time 

828
00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:49,080
going into the championships. 
I like just started like feeling

829
00:53:49,080 --> 00:53:52,960
like fitness isn't building. 
I'm like kind of going backwards

830
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,680
a little bit I feel like. 
Just I'm running on fumes a 

831
00:53:56,680 --> 00:54:02,080
little bit and. 
There's probably a bit of like 

832
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,360
maybe peeking a little too early
and a bit of like letting that 

833
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:10,200
really get in my head as as 
well. 

834
00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,320
How does that correction then 
just sort of like the mental 

835
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,040
correction happen? 
And then obviously the fitness 

836
00:54:17,040 --> 00:54:21,120
does seem to carry over into 
2016 because by the time, you 

837
00:54:21,120 --> 00:54:25,720
know, you roll up into Rio, like
I just, I went back and watched 

838
00:54:25,720 --> 00:54:28,280
that final. 
It's like you just that one felt

839
00:54:28,280 --> 00:54:32,400
like there was maybe an easy 
race plan, just get into metal 

840
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:37,760
position and and hold on, right.
Like you, you LED from 1400 all 

841
00:54:37,760 --> 00:54:40,040
the way up to the Bell Lab. 
Yeah, that one. 

842
00:54:40,600 --> 00:54:45,480
Yeah, that one that was like, I 
mean, looking back on it, it 

843
00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:52,640
felt like one of the easier, 
like maybe like the easiest 

844
00:54:52,640 --> 00:55:00,160
race, like sub 810 race that 
I've ever run it like I think a 

845
00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:04,360
lot of it was a lot of. 
I guess I didn't even pick up on

846
00:55:04,360 --> 00:55:05,640
that. 
It was an 8 O four race. 

847
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:09,000
Yeah, for you. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

848
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:13,040
It was like hot too. 
It was like 36 Celsius on the 

849
00:55:13,040 --> 00:55:15,400
track. 
He was like, I, it was just 

850
00:55:15,400 --> 00:55:19,360
like, you know, I had, I had 
pretty much the same fitness as 

851
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,600
the year before. 
Chemboy was getting older. 

852
00:55:23,240 --> 00:55:27,280
Mckissy was like coming off of 
like an injury from earlier in 

853
00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,960
the year. 
Jarius B Retch wasn't looking 

854
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:38,240
like himself. 
So like the the top dogs weren't

855
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:40,600
quite as like strong as they had
been. 

856
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:48,120
And I just like, I mean, I like 
knew 100. 

857
00:55:48,120 --> 00:55:51,200
Percent that I was the fittest. 
Guy in the field like there was 

858
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:58,160
no question like so I was very, 
very confident in myself and 

859
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:04,560
fitness was really good. 
So fitness was there and then I 

860
00:56:04,560 --> 00:56:07,680
think honestly the biggest. 
Thing was the like mental 

861
00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:12,400
component this time around like 
I had the disappointment and in 

862
00:56:12,400 --> 00:56:20,400
2015 and. 2 two weeks, you know,
I again, like the year before I 

863
00:56:20,400 --> 00:56:22,240
thought about meddling every 
single day. 

864
00:56:22,240 --> 00:56:27,440
Like was pretty intense, like 
mentally in, in training, like 

865
00:56:27,440 --> 00:56:31,200
all year gearing up for the 
summer. 

866
00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:39,360
And like 2 weeks before the the 
Olympics, Pascal took me aside 

867
00:56:39,360 --> 00:56:42,960
and was like, hey, like, I know 
you want to medal really bad. 

868
00:56:42,960 --> 00:56:46,280
Like I could see it, like I 
could see it on your face and 

869
00:56:46,280 --> 00:56:48,360
training and everything. 
Like everyone knows you want a 

870
00:56:48,360 --> 00:56:53,640
medal, but like you just got to 
let like the end result go like 

871
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:57,360
you're really fit. 
Just don't think about the end 

872
00:56:57,360 --> 00:57:03,560
result anymore and just realize 
that like the best way to put 

873
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:09,200
yourself in position to do well 
is to like just execute. 

874
00:57:09,200 --> 00:57:14,160
Just yeah, like put yourself in 
it with a lap to go and like if 

875
00:57:14,160 --> 00:57:16,520
you do that, you're going to, 
you're going to be in a good 

876
00:57:16,520 --> 00:57:19,520
space. 
So I like, I made a promise to 

877
00:57:19,520 --> 00:57:26,720
myself like that that day that 
if I ran a hard race and like, 

878
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:33,240
you know, did my best, I was 
going to be OK with whatever the

879
00:57:33,280 --> 00:57:38,560
the outcome was. 
And like, yeah, I was like, like

880
00:57:38,560 --> 00:57:41,000
a blood oaf. 
Like I believed it deep down. 

881
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:43,400
And I like totally let go of the
outcome. 

882
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:46,240
I was still like super nervous 
going into the Olympics and 

883
00:57:46,240 --> 00:57:50,400
everything. 
And but I like, yeah, like was 

884
00:57:50,400 --> 00:57:53,800
standing on the starting line 
and it was like, just got to run

885
00:57:53,800 --> 00:57:57,680
as hard as I can and whatever. 
Like if it doesn't work out like

886
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,600
I'm. 
Going to be happy with like 

887
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,720
running as hard as I can so I 
was. 

888
00:58:03,280 --> 00:58:07,600
So calm, like on the start line,
I remember like heart rate was 

889
00:58:07,640 --> 00:58:11,240
probably like like 50. 
I was like just chilling. 

890
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,640
Like just felt so good about 
things. 

891
00:58:14,280 --> 00:58:18,680
I had a good race strategy. 
I knew I was really fit, like 

892
00:58:18,680 --> 00:58:21,040
didn't care about what the 
outcome was going to be. 

893
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,920
And I was like the most relaxed 
I've been before, like a big 

894
00:58:25,920 --> 00:58:28,400
race. 
It was like the most relaxed 

895
00:58:28,400 --> 00:58:31,040
I've been. 
During a race, it was like. 

896
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:35,680
I was just super chill and yeah,
it worked out, yeah. 

897
00:58:36,440 --> 00:58:41,280
The final 150 or even the final 
hundred really is total opposite

898
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:43,880
of of of Paris. 
It's like you had a little bit 

899
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,680
more gas left in the tank 'cause
you pass Chemboy, who had like I

900
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:50,960
think made the pass on you at 
the bell, but you you reel him 

901
00:58:50,960 --> 00:58:53,280
in. 
In the final hundred consensus, 

902
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,840
Capruto starts celebrating 
early. 

903
00:58:56,160 --> 00:58:59,720
But he it's like if this race 
would have been 1015 meters 

904
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:01,760
longer, I feel like you would 
have got him because that search

905
00:59:01,760 --> 00:59:07,440
for silver was really good. 
Yeah, if if he just was not 

906
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:10,120
paying attention and the race 
was longer, like I might have 

907
00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:13,600
caught him. 
But like the I mean, he had a 

908
00:59:13,600 --> 00:59:18,160
lot of running left in his legs.
I that's kind of why, like I 

909
00:59:18,160 --> 00:59:20,800
didn't even try going with him 
because like the move that he 

910
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:26,280
made on the backstretch, he was 
like, like, I like, no, I cannot

911
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,280
do that. 
That was like, it was like 

912
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:31,720
immediate, so easy. 
You could just tell the way he 

913
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:33,840
was running. 
I was like, I'm going to like go

914
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:36,760
for a second because like, 
that's I just can't do that. 

915
00:59:37,040 --> 00:59:40,280
And Camboy went for it a little 
bit. 

916
00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:44,280
And I think he might have, yeah,
he might have like blown himself

917
00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:46,880
up, like trying to go for gold a
little bit. 

918
00:59:46,880 --> 00:59:51,960
And maybe maybe it was like a 
little bit of like Paris, like 

919
00:59:51,960 --> 00:59:57,480
still in the back of my head not
to go too hard too early and 

920
00:59:57,480 --> 00:59:59,600
like save a little bit for the 
last 150. 

921
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,760
And I think it was also like a 
little bit of like the 

922
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:07,240
adrenaline hitting that like I 
was, I was going to meddle. 

923
01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,680
And so that like also gave me a 
little a little extra pep in the

924
01:00:11,680 --> 01:00:15,640
step, like the last 100 meters 
felt felt pretty good. 

925
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:20,160
When you said you were just how 
chill you were, you know, 

926
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,680
potential heart rate had like, 
you know, 50 at the start line. 

927
01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,480
What's the call room like before
an Olympic final among the 

928
01:00:26,480 --> 01:00:29,640
Kenyans? 
Before the in that in that Rio 

929
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,920
call room? 
I I think it's the same as like 

930
01:00:33,560 --> 01:00:36,040
the, the tension is like 
palpable. 

931
01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:40,080
It's like you can just feel it 
and. 

932
01:00:40,080 --> 01:00:42,360
Smells like icy Hot and Bengay 
everywhere. 

933
01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,080
Yeah, people are just like, 
change it. 

934
01:00:45,080 --> 01:00:47,000
Yeah, it's a it's a little 
crazy. 

935
01:00:48,720 --> 01:00:53,200
Everyone's like, you know, 
checking each other out and 

936
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:57,360
like, you can tell like who's 
super nervous and who's 

937
01:00:57,360 --> 01:01:01,920
confident and who's like, you 
know, ready for for battle, you 

938
01:01:01,920 --> 01:01:09,280
know, and yeah, it's like, I 
always remember like consensus 

939
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,880
is a he's pretty like, pretty 
chill, like reserved guy. 

940
01:01:13,920 --> 01:01:18,240
And so he's like, not like he 
was like an intimidating 

941
01:01:18,240 --> 01:01:20,360
athlete, but he's not an 
intimidating person. 

942
01:01:20,360 --> 01:01:21,840
Like in the call room and 
everything. 

943
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,960
Kemboy always remember Kemboy 
and Mckissy were always like 

944
01:01:27,080 --> 01:01:33,240
just like they were like mean 
mugging people and like they had

945
01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:35,520
some like nasty attitude to 
them. 

946
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,680
So they were like definitely 
intimidating in the call room. 

947
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:44,200
But like I said, I was like, I 
was just so confident that like 

948
01:01:45,000 --> 01:01:47,520
I had no problem being in that 
space. 

949
01:01:47,520 --> 01:01:52,080
And I was like, you know, I 
think when you're, when you're 

950
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:57,200
the top dog in those, like in 
those situations, you almost 

951
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,920
gain like a little bit more 
confidence, like thinking people

952
01:02:00,920 --> 01:02:03,960
are like looking at you, like 
worrying about you. 

953
01:02:03,960 --> 01:02:07,960
So yeah, I was in a good place. 
When you talk about just like 

954
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:11,160
how fit you were and how, I 
mean, just this work ethic that 

955
01:02:11,160 --> 01:02:14,320
you had at the time, the 
obsession over like meddling and

956
01:02:14,320 --> 01:02:16,840
it's like you were in the 
steeplechase. 

957
01:02:16,840 --> 01:02:21,720
And like, I just have to wonder 
if like this was the time of 

958
01:02:21,720 --> 01:02:25,120
like MO and, and Galen being 
like among the top, you know, in

959
01:02:25,120 --> 01:02:30,120
the 5K10K for, for in globally, 
some of your training partners 

960
01:02:30,120 --> 01:02:32,840
were the ones making teams like 
Ryan Hill. 

961
01:02:33,480 --> 01:02:36,200
It's almost like, does any part 
of you also wonder is like, was 

962
01:02:36,200 --> 01:02:39,800
America's best 5K runner running
the steeplechase in those years?

963
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:46,320
I, I felt like that for maybe 
like a couple years, but that 

964
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:50,000
could just be like, you know, an
athlete's confidence, you know? 

965
01:02:50,120 --> 01:02:52,720
Yeah, yeah. 
But I mean, there was, there's 

966
01:02:52,720 --> 01:02:56,960
plenty of workouts where Ryan 
was taking it to me and like MO 

967
01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,280
had joined the team at that 
point and so he was like he was 

968
01:03:01,440 --> 01:03:05,360
taking it to me and some 
workouts especially. 

969
01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:09,400
Earlier on in the year, but 
like, yeah, there was a point 

970
01:03:09,400 --> 01:03:14,520
where I was like I was pretty 
fit on the team and I like I 

971
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:20,440
felt pretty good in workouts. 
So yeah, I, I honestly, I 

972
01:03:20,440 --> 01:03:25,280
probably would have doubled 
steeple 5K at at some of the 

973
01:03:25,280 --> 01:03:29,560
championships if the schedule 
had allowed it. 

974
01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:33,480
But it was just, it was never 
favorable and it was either. 

975
01:03:34,280 --> 01:03:42,160
It was either always 5K first 
and steeple after or they like 

976
01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,720
overlapped like same day and 
that kind of thing. 

977
01:03:45,720 --> 01:03:48,040
Even even at the like global 
championships. 

978
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:53,640
So we we looked at the schedule.
A lot during that period and 

979
01:03:54,600 --> 01:03:58,120
wanted we, I wanted to double 
and I think Jerry would have 

980
01:03:58,320 --> 01:04:02,480
been fine with that had it been 
like a favorable schedule for 

981
01:04:02,480 --> 01:04:04,160
me, but it just never worked 
out. 

982
01:04:05,160 --> 01:04:08,160
They changed the schedule for 
Allison Felix and potentially 

983
01:04:08,160 --> 01:04:10,320
like Sydney McLaughlin, 
Liveroni, but not Evan Jaeger. 

984
01:04:11,120 --> 01:04:14,400
I I probably, I don't think I 
ever broached the subject to 

985
01:04:14,400 --> 01:04:17,000
them. 
All right, then we go to 2017, 

986
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:20,760
another year where it's sort of 
like, all right, then you run 

987
01:04:20,960 --> 01:04:25,800
801 in Monaco, right, 2017, 
yeah. 

988
01:04:26,320 --> 01:04:29,680
What do you remember about that 
race being like another close 

989
01:04:29,680 --> 01:04:31,760
one where it's sort of like 
could have been like the 

990
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:37,840
correction to to, you know, the 
ending and helping get some 

991
01:04:37,840 --> 01:04:40,480
closure to Paris. 
But you know, once again, very 

992
01:04:40,480 --> 01:04:42,640
close, but a good sign leading 
into the championships. 

993
01:04:43,000 --> 01:04:45,720
Monaco had like, I love Monaco. 
It's. 

994
01:04:45,720 --> 01:04:48,520
Treated you really well, yeah. 
Yeah, it's treated me really 

995
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:52,240
well. 
I've I've raced like there was a

996
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,120
period. 
I I think most of my career 

997
01:04:54,320 --> 01:04:57,840
every race that I ran there went
really well and I just just good

998
01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:02,320
vibes there. 
It's always fast and the, the 

999
01:05:02,320 --> 01:05:05,480
meat director, like he was 
always chatting me up. 

1000
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:08,920
I feel like we've got a pretty 
good relationship and he like 

1001
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:12,560
would talk to me pretty 
regularly about like breaking 8 

1002
01:05:12,600 --> 01:05:14,920
at his meat. 
And so like, I really wanted to 

1003
01:05:14,920 --> 01:05:19,000
do it there. 
And yeah, I was super fit going 

1004
01:05:19,000 --> 01:05:24,640
into that race. 
I I'm pretty confident that had 

1005
01:05:24,640 --> 01:05:28,280
the pacing been good that day, I
would have, I would have broken 

1006
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:38,240
8 because I think we were, we 
were like 245 through the 1st K,

1007
01:05:38,240 --> 01:05:45,040
which is like 815 pace. 
And I think I was, I think I was

1008
01:05:45,040 --> 01:05:54,520
like 245 two 4235 for the KS and
like yeah, had had a lot. 

1009
01:05:54,520 --> 01:05:59,640
Of running in the the last two 
laps of that race and yeah, I 

1010
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:04,400
felt really good. 
And I like, you know, I feel 

1011
01:06:04,400 --> 01:06:07,880
like I closed as hard as I could
there. 

1012
01:06:08,160 --> 01:06:10,400
There's just too much, too much 
ground to make up. 

1013
01:06:13,120 --> 01:06:19,840
So that was, yeah, that was 
maybe like I would say like time

1014
01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:23,440
wise and like how I felt in the 
race. 

1015
01:06:23,440 --> 01:06:27,720
That was probably like the 
second best steeple like I I 

1016
01:06:27,720 --> 01:06:32,160
ever race. 
The City of Smack podcast is 

1017
01:06:32,160 --> 01:06:35,480
presented by Gnomeo Performance 
from the inside out. 

1018
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:39,080
You probably saw it, Joe 
Klecker's marathon debut in New 

1019
01:06:39,080 --> 01:06:44,600
York City, 210A debut that 
looked composed and strong all 

1020
01:06:44,600 --> 01:06:47,080
the way throughout. 
While he's spoken out about the 

1021
01:06:47,080 --> 01:06:51,240
importance of fueling a lot on 
this show, Joe has also been 

1022
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:55,640
using Gnomeo in his build up. 
Gnomeo's built exactly for that 

1023
01:06:55,640 --> 01:06:57,960
feeling that we're chasing. 
When the training clicks, 

1024
01:06:58,200 --> 01:07:01,080
recovery feels smoother, and 
race day legs actually really 

1025
01:07:01,080 --> 01:07:03,760
show up. 
It's a daily 60 milliliter shot,

1026
01:07:03,760 --> 01:07:07,040
mostly broccoli, sprout juice, 
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1027
01:07:07,240 --> 01:07:11,200
But the magic is in the science.
Nearly a decade of research from

1028
01:07:11,200 --> 01:07:15,000
Sweden's Karolinska Institute 
went into stabilizing compounds 

1029
01:07:15,000 --> 01:07:18,040
from cruciferous vegetables, the
stuff that helps your body 

1030
01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,440
naturally handle the stress of 
heart training. 

1031
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,040
We're talking lower lactate, 
better recovery, and stronger 

1032
01:07:23,240 --> 01:07:25,720
muscle adaptation. 
Athletes like Cole Hawker, 

1033
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,040
Andreas Almgren, Clayton Young, 
Nico Young are all using Gnomio 

1034
01:07:29,040 --> 01:07:31,840
to push a little harder, bounce 
back faster, and feel that light

1035
01:07:31,840 --> 01:07:34,120
on your feet rhythm that we're 
all chasing. 

1036
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:37,120
Let's hear how Joe Clecker has 
been using Gnomeo. 

1037
01:07:37,720 --> 01:07:40,400
So first I was a bit of a 
skeptic of the the product, you 

1038
01:07:40,400 --> 01:07:43,960
know, I was like, what is this? 
But I got it and started using 

1039
01:07:43,960 --> 01:07:47,480
it and then I'll use it like 2 
hours before I'll get up and 

1040
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:48,960
have it because our workouts are
pretty early. 

1041
01:07:49,360 --> 01:07:52,560
Every workout I'd implement what
I'm going to do on race day into

1042
01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,240
the workout. 
So my routine every morning is 

1043
01:07:54,240 --> 01:07:59,400
same breakfast Gnomeo 3 hours 
before, I do buy card two or 

1044
01:07:59,400 --> 01:08:02,600
three hours before and then I'll
have no meal before bed and for 

1045
01:08:02,600 --> 01:08:05,880
recovery. 
But I wasn't a huge believer and

1046
01:08:05,880 --> 01:08:08,120
I just did it because they had 
sent it to me at first. 

1047
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:12,600
And then Sage started using it 
and she used it at USA's for the

1048
01:08:12,600 --> 01:08:17,399
first time between her rounds 
and she was like blown away by 

1049
01:08:17,399 --> 01:08:19,880
how fresh she felt through the 
rounds. 

1050
01:08:19,880 --> 01:08:22,920
And obviously, that could just 
be fitness and training, but she

1051
01:08:22,920 --> 01:08:25,319
was like, you know, this was a 
new thing she was trying and it 

1052
01:08:25,319 --> 01:08:27,200
really helped her. 
And then she did the same in 

1053
01:08:27,200 --> 01:08:29,640
Tokyo. 
And like, so now we have that 

1054
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:30,960
helped me really believe in it a
lot. 

1055
01:08:30,960 --> 01:08:33,040
I'm like, OK, I know she's the 
fittest she's ever been. 

1056
01:08:33,040 --> 01:08:37,279
But also she starts using this, 
you know, this new product and 

1057
01:08:37,600 --> 01:08:40,359
has the best race of her life. 
You know, maybe I should keep 

1058
01:08:40,359 --> 01:08:43,359
using it as well. 
So yeah, I've been using it 

1059
01:08:43,359 --> 01:08:47,200
every workout, every long run. 
The recommended practice is you 

1060
01:08:47,200 --> 01:08:51,160
take one shot 3 hours before a 
big workout, a race, or daily 

1061
01:08:51,160 --> 01:08:54,600
during heavy training blocks and
those especially tough days. 

1062
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:58,120
A second shot before bed can 
help your recovery overnight. 

1063
01:08:58,359 --> 01:09:02,640
It's nature meets science, a 
small routine with a big payoff.

1064
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:07,080
You can find Gnomeo on the feed 
and Sidious Mag listeners get 

1065
01:09:07,080 --> 01:09:11,240
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1066
01:09:11,240 --> 01:09:19,240
That's Citi US15 at thefeed.com.
Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. 

1067
01:09:22,920 --> 01:09:26,080
This episode of the City of 
Smack podcast is presented by 

1068
01:09:26,120 --> 01:09:29,720
the Wahoo Kicker Run. 
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1069
01:09:29,720 --> 01:09:31,960
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1070
01:09:31,960 --> 01:09:34,439
You either love it or you call 
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1071
01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,760
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1072
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:42,640
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01:09:42,720 --> 01:09:45,200
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1074
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:49,720
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1075
01:09:49,720 --> 01:09:52,600
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Run faster, it speeds up. 

1076
01:09:52,640 --> 01:09:56,680
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That's called the run Free mode.

1077
01:09:56,680 --> 01:09:58,480
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1078
01:09:58,800 --> 01:10:01,560
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1079
01:10:01,560 --> 01:10:04,040
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1080
01:10:04,720 --> 01:10:07,120
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1081
01:10:07,120 --> 01:10:09,000
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1082
01:10:09,000 --> 01:10:12,560
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1083
01:10:12,560 --> 01:10:15,080
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1084
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:19,200
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1085
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:22,960
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Add in a quiet motor, a buttery 

1086
01:10:22,960 --> 01:10:25,840
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1087
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:28,920
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1088
01:10:29,040 --> 01:10:31,880
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We all know those temperatures 

1089
01:10:31,880 --> 01:10:34,640
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1090
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01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:45,080
The Wahoo Kicker Run makes 
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1093
01:10:45,160 --> 01:10:48,200
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Cole Hawker, the 5000 meter 

1094
01:10:48,200 --> 01:10:51,960
world champion and 1500m Olympic
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1095
01:10:51,960 --> 01:10:58,160
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that special offer. 
Yeah, I'm looking at it because 

1107
01:11:36,480 --> 01:11:40,120
then the fall of the year after 
this and once again you run 

1108
01:11:40,120 --> 01:11:44,280
eight O 1, but just even just a 
tad faster those races, do they 

1109
01:11:44,280 --> 01:11:46,720
feel similar? 
No, that way, those were 

1110
01:11:46,720 --> 01:11:49,320
completely different. 2017 was 
great. 

1111
01:11:49,320 --> 01:11:51,640
I felt incredible. 
Maybe because we went out slow 

1112
01:11:51,640 --> 01:11:59,240
and closed hard and then it was 
just like, yeah, different style

1113
01:11:59,240 --> 01:12:03,600
race, different feeling. 
And then 2018 I was like 

1114
01:12:04,440 --> 01:12:06,880
starting to get to the point 
where I was like a little more 

1115
01:12:06,880 --> 01:12:12,040
desperate to like try and break 
8 because like I was like, OK, 

1116
01:12:12,040 --> 01:12:17,960
like it's been like 4-4 years 
now, 15/16/17 now it's 18. 

1117
01:12:17,960 --> 01:12:20,960
Like still haven't done it yet. 
Getting older. 

1118
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:23,800
Like I want to make sure I do 
this. 

1119
01:12:23,800 --> 01:12:30,680
And I think also we didn't get 
like a ton like it wasn't a 

1120
01:12:30,680 --> 01:12:33,400
great pace job. 
I think I LED from like pretty 

1121
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:37,800
far out and just had Elba Kali 
like sitting on me like the 

1122
01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:40,720
entire race and he just out 
kicked me at some point the last

1123
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:44,080
lap and he broke 8. 
So that was his first time 

1124
01:12:44,080 --> 01:12:49,120
breaking 8. 
But I I think I just spent too 

1125
01:12:49,120 --> 01:12:52,760
much energy like. 
Leading for the last mile or 

1126
01:12:52,760 --> 01:12:55,560
whatever. 
And yeah, that that year was 

1127
01:12:55,560 --> 01:12:58,240
like starting to get like a 
little rough for me as well. 

1128
01:12:58,240 --> 01:13:04,880
So things health started kind of
going down a little bit like at 

1129
01:13:04,880 --> 01:13:08,200
that point in the year I think. 
Yeah, I don't want to skip over 

1130
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:13,400
2017 because at the World 
Championships there similar 

1131
01:13:13,400 --> 01:13:17,440
strategy, I guess to the 
Olympics, except like it was 

1132
01:13:17,440 --> 01:13:21,800
just a bit more bunched up and I
watched, I watched it back. 

1133
01:13:22,240 --> 01:13:24,920
One of those early water jumps 
was really bad for you. 

1134
01:13:24,920 --> 01:13:29,200
And then like from there, just 
sort of like altered, like, hey,

1135
01:13:29,200 --> 01:13:31,280
I'm just going to stay out of 
trouble, hit the front. 

1136
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:34,440
And then that's where you ended 
up for, you know, for most of 

1137
01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:37,720
the the the rest of the race. 
Yeah, yeah, I think I was. 

1138
01:13:37,720 --> 01:13:41,400
I was about to come down like on
someone's like foot in the water

1139
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,280
pit. 
And that's why I like I like 

1140
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:47,880
changed which foot I landed on 
or something or I just landed 

1141
01:13:47,880 --> 01:13:51,360
really weird in the water pit 
and then got clipped like a 

1142
01:13:51,360 --> 01:13:53,800
couple of times like 100 meters 
later. 

1143
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:57,440
And I was just like, this is 
just as like too chaotic back 

1144
01:13:57,440 --> 01:13:59,040
here. 
I like I don't like it. 

1145
01:13:59,840 --> 01:14:04,560
And I had I had the plan to take
the lead do like a similar 

1146
01:14:04,560 --> 01:14:07,040
strategy as well. 
I think I probably ideally would

1147
01:14:07,040 --> 01:14:12,880
have waited another lap, but I 
think I just didn't like how 

1148
01:14:12,880 --> 01:14:15,400
things were playing out. 
So yeah, I just went to the lead

1149
01:14:15,400 --> 01:14:19,280
and it was like over 4 laps to 
go, which is like not ideal. 

1150
01:14:19,640 --> 01:14:22,080
Yeah. 
Didn't, didn't feel as great 

1151
01:14:22,080 --> 01:14:24,920
about making that move as I did 
in in Rio. 

1152
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,320
It felt like a little bit more 
of like a move out of 

1153
01:14:29,920 --> 01:14:35,520
desperation in the moment then 
like, like, I'm going to take it

1154
01:14:35,520 --> 01:14:37,320
to these guys. 
It was more of like. 

1155
01:14:38,240 --> 01:14:41,040
If I don't do this, like I might
not meddle. 

1156
01:14:41,040 --> 01:14:46,040
So it was like I didn't really 
like the headspace that I was in

1157
01:14:46,040 --> 01:14:49,760
when I was doing that and felt a
lot harder. 

1158
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:53,480
Yeah. 
I think I had also like strange 

1159
01:14:53,480 --> 01:14:56,040
my glute or something going into
that as well. 

1160
01:14:56,040 --> 01:15:00,040
So like things weren't didn't 
line up quite as well as they 

1161
01:15:00,040 --> 01:15:05,520
had the the previous year, but. 
I, I ran hard. 

1162
01:15:05,840 --> 01:15:10,480
I, I just tried to run as hard 
as I could from from 4 laps out.

1163
01:15:10,560 --> 01:15:14,680
I I feel like that that that 
race almost like feels more. 

1164
01:15:15,200 --> 01:15:19,000
Is it the hardest 8:15? 
Yeah, Yeah, yeah, there was, it 

1165
01:15:19,000 --> 01:15:20,720
was hard. 
It was very hard. 

1166
01:15:21,760 --> 01:15:25,920
And I think like the IT showed 
in the field because the field 

1167
01:15:25,920 --> 01:15:32,440
was like, it was kind of fun to 
watch like just guys dropping 

1168
01:15:32,440 --> 01:15:35,680
like every 200 meters. 
So it's, it's cool to be able to

1169
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:38,480
like do that so I can entire 
field at world. 

1170
01:15:40,520 --> 01:15:44,440
But it sucks when there's also 
like 2 guys that feel better 

1171
01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:49,320
sitting on your shoulder. 
So it but it's just like, yeah, 

1172
01:15:49,320 --> 01:15:52,800
that's kind of I just felt like 
those were things that I had to 

1173
01:15:52,800 --> 01:15:54,600
do at. 
That point in my career and. 

1174
01:15:56,440 --> 01:16:00,280
Sometimes it felt like a choice 
and sometimes it didn't, but 

1175
01:16:00,520 --> 01:16:01,720
yeah. 
Right. 

1176
01:16:01,880 --> 01:16:05,600
You walk off that track in 
London and you're probably 

1177
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,880
thinking it's like, well, all 
right, well, we've got a couple 

1178
01:16:07,880 --> 01:16:12,200
more championships coming up. 
And like we you in that moment 

1179
01:16:12,200 --> 01:16:15,400
don't know that the next time 
you'll be back at a global stage

1180
01:16:15,400 --> 01:16:19,120
will be 2022 for a variety of 
different reasons, right? 

1181
01:16:19,120 --> 01:16:25,120
There was injury 2019, pandemic 
2020, and then just sort of 

1182
01:16:25,160 --> 01:16:31,320
injury again, right, 2021. 
And so in retrospect, like, do 

1183
01:16:31,320 --> 01:16:34,360
you think you didn't appreciate 
sort of maybe that bronze medal 

1184
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:37,000
moment as much as you maybe do 
now in that moment? 

1185
01:16:37,000 --> 01:16:39,920
Yeah, right. 
I was pissed, Yeah, yeah. 

1186
01:16:40,160 --> 01:16:44,440
I mean, I did not. 
I really didn't enjoy it at all,

1187
01:16:44,600 --> 01:16:50,880
honestly, in in the moment like 
that that year. 

1188
01:16:50,880 --> 01:16:54,040
I don't think I for the rest of 
the summer, I I don't think I 

1189
01:16:54,040 --> 01:16:58,440
was like happy with it for sure.
I remember, yeah, being 

1190
01:16:58,440 --> 01:17:01,960
disappointed and then having a 
conversation with Jerry after 

1191
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:03,920
and he's like, you still 
meddled. 

1192
01:17:03,920 --> 01:17:06,840
Like you got 2 now. 
That's pretty cool. 

1193
01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:09,040
And I was like, yeah, man, yeah,
that's pretty cool. 

1194
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,760
And he's like, and it's kind of 
playing into your what else you 

1195
01:17:12,760 --> 01:17:15,480
said about like not making it 
back until 2022. 

1196
01:17:15,480 --> 01:17:22,720
He's like, I think we should 
like make it a goal to try to 

1197
01:17:22,720 --> 01:17:28,320
get two more out of the next 
three championships. 

1198
01:17:28,520 --> 01:17:32,280
And I was like 4 and five years 
would be sick. 

1199
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:38,720
And then, yeah, didn't. 
Then I got hurt and felt like 

1200
01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:43,320
Doha played like, right. 
It would have played like right 

1201
01:17:43,320 --> 01:17:45,240
into my hands. 
It was like an Ado's race 

1202
01:17:45,240 --> 01:17:48,000
someone else LED. 
I was like, should have been in 

1203
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:49,480
that race. 
That would have been perfect. 

1204
01:17:49,600 --> 01:17:54,640
And yeah, but I mean. 
Things are never going to be 

1205
01:17:54,640 --> 01:17:59,680
perfect for everyone. 
And I think that's what makes 

1206
01:17:59,680 --> 01:18:02,040
the sport awesome, is like 
cards. 

1207
01:18:02,160 --> 01:18:05,880
Cards don't always fall the way 
you think they should. 

1208
01:18:05,880 --> 01:18:11,800
And yeah, it makes, I think it 
makes it more worthwhile. 

1209
01:18:11,800 --> 01:18:14,600
And in the long run, like kind 
of having to go through 

1210
01:18:14,600 --> 01:18:19,320
struggles and showing out the 
other side and really 

1211
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,480
appreciating it, yeah. 
Yeah, I think that's what I 

1212
01:18:22,480 --> 01:18:25,360
think it was at the heart of the
last interview that we did in 

1213
01:18:25,360 --> 01:18:30,280
2022, 'cause, you know, I think 
the cool part is that I guess 

1214
01:18:30,280 --> 01:18:33,080
Insidious has been around. 
It's like we have a ton of 

1215
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:36,120
great, raw, honest interviews 
that you've done, especially 

1216
01:18:36,120 --> 01:18:39,600
from the 2022 season that are up
on our YouTube channel. 

1217
01:18:39,600 --> 01:18:42,880
And the last time that we did 
this podcast, you said with 

1218
01:18:42,880 --> 01:18:45,080
everything that I'd been through
the last four years, the deep, 

1219
01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:47,480
deep belief in myself never went
away. 

1220
01:18:47,800 --> 01:18:50,320
But there was a lot of doubt 
that I couldn't get past until I

1221
01:18:50,320 --> 01:18:52,320
finally had the race to prove it
to me. 

1222
01:18:52,720 --> 01:18:54,560
That was that race. 
I think you're referring. 

1223
01:18:54,560 --> 01:18:57,120
You're referring to Worlds. 
It did a lot for my confidence 

1224
01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:58,720
for the rest of the season, for 
sure. 

1225
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,920
Or it might have been USA. 
USAS I think, yeah. 

1226
01:19:01,760 --> 01:19:06,800
So like, I guess getting 2022 
just sort of like, where is that

1227
01:19:06,840 --> 01:19:11,040
rank among like all these 
seasons that we've talked about 

1228
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:14,120
so far? 
That one just, you know, I've 

1229
01:19:14,120 --> 01:19:17,680
had instances where like someone
like Rye Benjamin has, you know,

1230
01:19:17,680 --> 01:19:21,080
who's earned like a bronze medal
and a silver medal once he told 

1231
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,560
me once he's like, oh, well, 
this bronze shines brighter than

1232
01:19:23,560 --> 01:19:27,360
that silver. 
And so it's like a season like 

1233
01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:29,560
2022 where there was no medal 
that came out of the World 

1234
01:19:29,560 --> 01:19:31,840
Championships. 
There wasn't any national record

1235
01:19:31,840 --> 01:19:33,680
that was set. 
But like, does that one stick 

1236
01:19:33,680 --> 01:19:36,680
out to you, I think a little bit
more than some of these other 

1237
01:19:36,800 --> 01:19:41,000
years. 
Yeah, I think it's it's, it's 

1238
01:19:41,120 --> 01:19:45,680
more like meaningful, I guess 
than most of the other years and

1239
01:19:45,680 --> 01:19:49,680
most of the other races. 
The the the year itself is like 

1240
01:19:50,400 --> 01:19:54,840
maybe top three like proudest 
moments for me. 

1241
01:19:54,880 --> 01:19:58,760
Like yeah, it's like Paris. 
I'm like pretty proud of. 

1242
01:20:00,120 --> 01:20:04,960
I'm like proud of the Olympic 
medal, but like, I think like. 

1243
01:20:05,920 --> 01:20:08,760
Just because it's an Olympic 
medal, not, not for like any 

1244
01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:13,680
other reason than that it might 
be #2 Honestly, I like it. 

1245
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:19,560
It meant like a lot to me in the
moment because I, I had some 

1246
01:20:19,560 --> 01:20:25,840
like super, super dark moments 
in the years before where like, 

1247
01:20:26,280 --> 01:20:30,840
yeah, it, it, injuries hit me 
like really, really hard. 

1248
01:20:30,880 --> 01:20:34,280
And I like, didn't deal with it 
very well. 

1249
01:20:34,280 --> 01:20:38,880
And like, really the only thing 
that made me feel better, which 

1250
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:43,760
is like super unhealthy, it was 
like getting healthy and like 

1251
01:20:43,760 --> 01:20:50,440
running well again. 
And I think it was because I, I 

1252
01:20:50,440 --> 01:20:54,200
like knew it was like deep in 
there, but I just couldn't get 

1253
01:20:54,200 --> 01:20:55,760
to it. 
So it was like super 

1254
01:20:55,760 --> 01:20:59,080
frustrating. 
And and then like just going 

1255
01:20:59,080 --> 01:21:01,040
through injury itself is like, 
sucks. 

1256
01:21:01,040 --> 01:21:07,760
So yeah, it was to get through 
that and like not, yeah, not 

1257
01:21:07,760 --> 01:21:12,240
quit when it got hard and like 
fight through a lot of those 

1258
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:17,240
moments and like have success at
the other side sometimes. 

1259
01:21:17,240 --> 01:21:21,040
Like you do all that and it's 
just like you're just OK on the 

1260
01:21:21,040 --> 01:21:23,800
other side. 
But like to feel like you're 

1261
01:21:23,800 --> 01:21:29,360
like actually got success as 
well was like so rewarding. 

1262
01:21:29,360 --> 01:21:33,680
It was like, yeah, the the 
emotions were like right up 

1263
01:21:33,680 --> 01:21:38,000
there with like making my first 
Olympic team and meddling. 

1264
01:21:38,560 --> 01:21:41,160
There's like, those are probably
the top three, like most 

1265
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,280
emotional parts of my career, I 
would say. 

1266
01:21:45,000 --> 01:21:48,040
And I also feel like you 
probably felt it from like the 

1267
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:51,200
fans, the people around you 
who've been around, just cause 

1268
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:54,080
like there have been so many 
people who've been able to 

1269
01:21:54,080 --> 01:21:57,160
follow the course of your career
that like that side of it too is

1270
01:21:57,160 --> 01:22:01,360
just like the support and 
celebration of even finishing 

1271
01:22:01,360 --> 01:22:03,120
sixth in the world or even 
making that team. 

1272
01:22:03,120 --> 01:22:04,640
I feel like it was even louder 
that year. 

1273
01:22:04,960 --> 01:22:07,440
It it felt that way to my, to 
myself. 

1274
01:22:07,440 --> 01:22:11,000
I don't know if it actually was,
but like it definitely I like, 

1275
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:16,280
yeah, felt like I had the 
support of of like the crowd and

1276
01:22:16,280 --> 01:22:20,400
obviously like, you know, 
teammates and family and like 

1277
01:22:20,880 --> 01:22:24,520
definitely felt like them and 
the BTC cheering section. 

1278
01:22:24,520 --> 01:22:27,360
But that that was like, you 
know, kind of to be expected, 

1279
01:22:27,880 --> 01:22:31,120
but to like, yeah, I like 
actually felt like I had support

1280
01:22:31,120 --> 01:22:33,560
of, of like the crowd and the 
stadium. 

1281
01:22:33,560 --> 01:22:36,280
It was like it. 
It hits deep, you know? 

1282
01:22:37,000 --> 01:22:39,440
Yeah. 
I guess when you said just sort 

1283
01:22:39,440 --> 01:22:43,240
of like those dark moments, low 
moments, I think of just like 

1284
01:22:43,240 --> 01:22:45,720
who are the people who bear 
witness to that? 

1285
01:22:45,760 --> 01:22:48,640
And it's like it's the 
significant others, right. 

1286
01:22:48,640 --> 01:22:52,600
And like, there must have been 
so many times you're coming back

1287
01:22:52,600 --> 01:22:56,440
from like a training session and
maybe the workout was crap or 

1288
01:22:56,440 --> 01:22:57,840
like you just dug yourself into 
the hole. 

1289
01:22:57,840 --> 01:23:01,040
You're so tired and you come 
home to your wife and like she 

1290
01:23:01,040 --> 01:23:03,240
sees you in just like this 
broken state. 

1291
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:06,800
And she's probably asking, it's 
like, so like, why are you doing

1292
01:23:06,800 --> 01:23:11,560
this or like, why keep going? 
What were, I guess, did those 

1293
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:13,840
conversations happen? 
How did they, how did they take 

1294
01:23:13,840 --> 01:23:15,360
place? 
And then what was your typically

1295
01:23:15,360 --> 01:23:19,280
like your your answer? 
I, I don't know, I don't think 

1296
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:22,280
we had those conversations. 
I, I think she knew deep down 

1297
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:26,120
that like, she knew what my 
mentality was. 

1298
01:23:26,120 --> 01:23:28,920
So like a lot of it. 
Was unspoken and it didn't need 

1299
01:23:28,920 --> 01:23:36,560
to be talked about. 
And I feel like, you know, I was

1300
01:23:36,560 --> 01:23:40,160
maybe not the best version of 
myself all the time, but like I 

1301
01:23:40,480 --> 01:23:46,440
held it together like most of 
the time and really only like 

1302
01:23:46,600 --> 01:23:48,920
completely crumbled a couple of 
times. 

1303
01:23:48,920 --> 01:23:54,200
And that's when like she's she's
more just like there for me, 

1304
01:23:54,240 --> 01:23:57,240
like understanding and there for
me. 

1305
01:23:57,240 --> 01:24:03,160
And I think I didn't even really
need to like have a conversation

1306
01:24:03,160 --> 01:24:08,520
about it just because I nothing 
was really going to make me feel

1307
01:24:08,520 --> 01:24:12,640
better outside of like just 
getting healthy again in in 

1308
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,880
those moments. 
Yeah, there wasn't there wasn't 

1309
01:24:14,880 --> 01:24:19,080
much that needed to be said. 
It was, I think we had a pretty 

1310
01:24:19,080 --> 01:24:20,960
good understanding of each 
other. 

1311
01:24:20,960 --> 01:24:26,680
And she just knew that I needed 
her to just be there for me 

1312
01:24:26,680 --> 01:24:32,160
instead of like talking about it
because I didn't I really didn't

1313
01:24:32,160 --> 01:24:37,480
like talking about it. 
And at the time, because that 

1314
01:24:37,920 --> 01:24:41,920
felt like a bit of a, an 
acknowledgement of like, I just 

1315
01:24:41,920 --> 01:24:45,080
didn't want to open the door to 
like, should you quit? 

1316
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:48,400
Like, I just didn't, I didn't 
want that conversation at all. 

1317
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:53,960
So like kept that door closed 
and we just, she just, yeah, 

1318
01:24:53,960 --> 01:24:58,880
supported me basically, which 
was all I needed, you know? 

1319
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:02,960
The other constant throughout 
all this is obviously Jerry kind

1320
01:25:02,960 --> 01:25:09,040
of overseeing your training and 
and everything when we get to I 

1321
01:25:09,040 --> 01:25:13,240
guess, like, I don't know, this 
year, like how does that 

1322
01:25:13,240 --> 01:25:15,520
conversation look to him when it
comes to just sort of like, all 

1323
01:25:15,520 --> 01:25:19,960
right, remember when it was all 
about big goals and like him 

1324
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:23,040
reassuring you? 
Is the tone a little different 

1325
01:25:23,040 --> 01:25:25,000
this time around? 
It seems like the the training 

1326
01:25:25,000 --> 01:25:27,240
intensity and the workouts, all 
that stuff like that's been just

1327
01:25:27,240 --> 01:25:30,120
constantly always high level 
intensity, but then like 

1328
01:25:30,800 --> 01:25:34,920
softening, I guess to hey, like,
all right, like what, what do we

1329
01:25:34,920 --> 01:25:36,600
have left? 
Like what was this year like 

1330
01:25:36,600 --> 01:25:38,960
when it comes to discussing 
things with him big picture 

1331
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:41,520
wise? 
There, there was a lot we, we 

1332
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:43,480
didn't really have conversations
about it this year. 

1333
01:25:43,480 --> 01:25:52,480
And I think mainly because I 
was, I was in Sweden, so for a 

1334
01:25:52,480 --> 01:25:58,320
large chunk of the year, I 
didn't even really feel like I 

1335
01:25:58,320 --> 01:26:01,320
could do Jerry's training on my 
own over here. 

1336
01:26:01,320 --> 01:26:07,520
So I I kind of did different 
stuff and adjusted and did a 

1337
01:26:07,520 --> 01:26:10,000
little bit of double threshold 
training with some of the 

1338
01:26:10,280 --> 01:26:14,800
Swedish guys because one, I just
wanted some people to train with

1339
01:26:14,800 --> 01:26:19,360
and two, I thought that that 
would be a good way to like. 

1340
01:26:20,440 --> 01:26:24,040
Get me a good base, strong and 
resilient so that I could handle

1341
01:26:24,040 --> 01:26:30,040
Jerry's training when I when I 
joined in in this in the spring 

1342
01:26:30,040 --> 01:26:37,440
and summer and. 
So yeah, we didn't really have 

1343
01:26:37,440 --> 01:26:43,600
many conversations about goals. 
I think like probably just 

1344
01:26:43,600 --> 01:26:47,880
because like. 
The goals are always the same or

1345
01:26:48,000 --> 01:26:50,080
to to make the World 
Championship team and. 

1346
01:26:51,240 --> 01:26:55,840
I was more vocal about what I 
could and couldn't handle in 

1347
01:26:55,840 --> 01:26:59,680
training. 
And these last couple years he 

1348
01:26:59,680 --> 01:27:04,200
was like so much more receptive 
to me adjusting things. 

1349
01:27:05,320 --> 01:27:08,400
We, you know, we have after all 
these. 

1350
01:27:08,400 --> 01:27:12,240
Years we have very much the same
mentality towards training and 

1351
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:14,560
pushing ourselves and 
everything. 

1352
01:27:14,560 --> 01:27:21,200
And so I I tried to push a lot. 
Up until like 2 years ago. 

1353
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:26,640
And I think he saw that I was 
willing to do that during those 

1354
01:27:26,640 --> 01:27:29,320
years and it like didn't always 
work out for me. 

1355
01:27:29,320 --> 01:27:33,040
And so I think it was really 
only these last couple years 

1356
01:27:33,040 --> 01:27:37,840
where like he understood that I 
like I wasn't being soft by 

1357
01:27:37,840 --> 01:27:40,920
wanting to do less. 
It was like a necessity at this 

1358
01:27:40,920 --> 01:27:46,000
point. 
And so he kind of let me have 

1359
01:27:46,000 --> 01:27:49,720
like free reign of, you know, 
adjusting workouts, stopping 

1360
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:55,440
here or running a little slower.
And it was a lot more open and, 

1361
01:27:55,440 --> 01:28:02,160
and, and flexible. 
And, you know, I think most of 

1362
01:28:02,160 --> 01:28:08,200
the time I was just making those
calls kind of in the moment, but

1363
01:28:09,000 --> 01:28:15,640
we would typically have like a 
pretty quick, like debrief after

1364
01:28:15,640 --> 01:28:21,480
those those workouts where I 
would be like, hey, like this is

1365
01:28:21,480 --> 01:28:23,240
what I'm feeling in this 
workout. 

1366
01:28:23,240 --> 01:28:27,440
I feel like it's right to adjust
things here or adjust things 

1367
01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:30,680
this way. 
And he's like, yeah, that makes 

1368
01:28:30,680 --> 01:28:32,680
sense. 
And so it was a much more open 

1369
01:28:32,680 --> 01:28:37,720
dialogue and yeah, easier. 
Yeah, All right, let's get 

1370
01:28:37,760 --> 01:28:40,560
before we get into just closing 
out with some general 

1371
01:28:40,560 --> 01:28:43,800
superlatives over most talented 
training partner and all that 

1372
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:45,720
kind of stuff. 
Let's talk about this next 

1373
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:48,440
chapter. 
You're moving into a role with 

1374
01:28:48,640 --> 01:28:51,360
Gnomeo. 
Like makes it super easy for me 

1375
01:28:51,360 --> 01:28:55,640
to plug one of our sponsors. 
So I guess tell the people, I 

1376
01:28:55,640 --> 01:28:59,520
guess like what what your new 
role entails and then I'll tee 

1377
01:28:59,520 --> 01:29:02,480
it up for you to practice a 
little bit about, you know, your

1378
01:29:02,480 --> 01:29:04,920
your marketing role. 
Explain to people how this thing

1379
01:29:04,920 --> 01:29:07,720
works, because I think, like, 
there's still some real sort of 

1380
01:29:07,720 --> 01:29:11,480
confusion over like, timing and 
how to take it and what it does.

1381
01:29:11,480 --> 01:29:15,440
So yeah, let the people know. 
Yeah, so I I worked with Gnomeo 

1382
01:29:15,600 --> 01:29:18,320
like a little bit as an athlete 
this year. 

1383
01:29:18,320 --> 01:29:24,720
I was using the product and they
reached out to me this fall 

1384
01:29:24,720 --> 01:29:27,800
wondering what my next move was.
If I was going to be running, I 

1385
01:29:27,800 --> 01:29:30,680
think they wanted to do like a 
little bit of a partnership and 

1386
01:29:30,680 --> 01:29:37,920
if not, they wanted to hire me 
on and so super new. 

1387
01:29:38,040 --> 01:29:42,320
This is Week 2 on the job so 
brand new. 

1388
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:45,880
Still learning a lot but I'm 
going to be athlete relations 

1389
01:29:46,720 --> 01:29:51,520
for the company with. 
Like a focus on the US athletes 

1390
01:29:51,520 --> 01:29:57,360
in the US market and helping 
them kind of negotiate or like 

1391
01:29:57,360 --> 01:30:03,160
navigate the, the US running 
scene and hopefully break into 

1392
01:30:03,240 --> 01:30:05,640
the US market and, and help them
out there. 

1393
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:12,480
And then also help our US 
athletes, you know, use the 

1394
01:30:12,480 --> 01:30:14,160
product to get to know the 
product. 

1395
01:30:14,360 --> 01:30:17,680
Be like a, you know, a 
comfortable, known face for the 

1396
01:30:17,680 --> 01:30:22,240
company so that they're not just
talking to some people that they

1397
01:30:22,240 --> 01:30:26,280
don't really know. 
And yeah, it's I'm like super. 

1398
01:30:26,280 --> 01:30:32,040
Excited to like stay in the 
sport and get to work like 

1399
01:30:32,040 --> 01:30:36,360
directly with athletes, 'cause I
think. 

1400
01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:41,680
I've thought about it a lot 
obviously over the last year and

1401
01:30:41,680 --> 01:30:46,360
the last few months especially. 
Like staying in the sport was 

1402
01:30:46,520 --> 01:30:51,440
like priority #1 and I think 
working first hand with athletes

1403
01:30:51,440 --> 01:30:56,960
would be like my ideal route of 
doing that just cuz the sport's 

1404
01:30:56,960 --> 01:31:02,200
giving me so much and I want to 
like give back in in some way. 

1405
01:31:02,200 --> 01:31:07,560
And this is like a roundabout 
way of doing that, but I'm like 

1406
01:31:07,560 --> 01:31:11,000
super excited to stay in touch 
with, with the athletes and, and

1407
01:31:11,000 --> 01:31:17,520
the sport in general. 
And yeah, basically like the 

1408
01:31:17,520 --> 01:31:20,200
product. 
I mean, I'm like finding out 

1409
01:31:20,200 --> 01:31:23,400
more and more behind the scenes.
And then I just get more and 

1410
01:31:23,400 --> 01:31:26,080
more excited about it the more I
learn. 

1411
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:29,720
It's, we're working with the 
researchers in the lab a little 

1412
01:31:29,720 --> 01:31:35,120
bit and seeing how it works. 
And it's just like it's super 

1413
01:31:35,120 --> 01:31:41,520
exciting because the hype like 
on on this side of things, it 

1414
01:31:41,520 --> 01:31:45,560
seems like it's really growing 
in the US and worldwide. 

1415
01:31:45,560 --> 01:31:50,160
And we're excited to be able to 
like get it out into the hands. 

1416
01:31:50,160 --> 01:31:58,160
Of everyone that wants to try it
and basically like a brief sales

1417
01:31:58,160 --> 01:32:05,160
pitch would be. 
They started researching, you 

1418
01:32:05,160 --> 01:32:08,840
know, the the broccoli sprouts 
and there's like a specific 

1419
01:32:08,840 --> 01:32:15,200
compound in the broccoli sprouts
ITC that helps a lot of 

1420
01:32:15,200 --> 01:32:16,960
different aspects of of 
training. 

1421
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:23,040
And they found that when like 
when using ITC and training, it 

1422
01:32:23,040 --> 01:32:27,440
helps reduce lactate, it helps 
reduce inflammation. 

1423
01:32:27,520 --> 01:32:34,280
It there's like a blood glucose 
regulation aspects to it, like 

1424
01:32:34,280 --> 01:32:39,120
keeps your blood glucose levels 
a little more consistent and, 

1425
01:32:40,680 --> 01:32:46,080
and like an anti anti oxidative 
component to it as well. 

1426
01:32:46,080 --> 01:32:52,880
And yeah, you take is it's best 
used to take 3 hours before like

1427
01:32:52,880 --> 01:32:56,680
a training, like a, a workout or
a race. 

1428
01:32:56,800 --> 01:33:02,320
And you can also use it like an 
hour before bedtime, after like 

1429
01:33:02,320 --> 01:33:07,680
a pretty intense training day or
like a yeah, a big volume day or

1430
01:33:07,680 --> 01:33:13,080
a big typically workouts or race
just to help the recovery 

1431
01:33:13,080 --> 01:33:15,880
aspect. 
I'm a big fan of the night 

1432
01:33:15,880 --> 01:33:17,680
before. 
Like for me, I think that's 

1433
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:21,120
like, I guess because I've got 
limited supply right now until I

1434
01:33:21,120 --> 01:33:25,720
get more sent over to me. 
But no, I, I've, I've felt that 

1435
01:33:25,720 --> 01:33:30,120
even if I don't take it 3 hours 
before, 'cause if I have a 7:00 

1436
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:33,440
AM workout, like it's tough to 
get up at 4:00 AM to do it, just

1437
01:33:33,600 --> 01:33:36,480
do it an hour the night before 
you go to bed. 

1438
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:40,200
And I feel like the, the life of
it still is still going strong 

1439
01:33:40,200 --> 01:33:43,160
that in that workout, I think I 
did 4 hundreds. 

1440
01:33:43,480 --> 01:33:47,280
And yeah, I mean, I felt like my
legs were lighter for sure. 

1441
01:33:47,320 --> 01:33:49,880
Yeah, yeah, the Half Life, 
definitely. 

1442
01:33:49,880 --> 01:33:51,880
It lasts like a good amount of 
time. 

1443
01:33:52,440 --> 01:33:56,960
It's it peaks at three hours and
then it like tails off after 

1444
01:33:56,960 --> 01:33:59,080
there. 
But like, I mean, if you're 

1445
01:33:59,080 --> 01:34:04,320
taking it for the peak to be 
like at the start of a marathon,

1446
01:34:04,320 --> 01:34:07,240
it's, it's still going to have 
like some pretty good effects 

1447
01:34:07,240 --> 01:34:09,640
for the entirety of the 
marathon. 

1448
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:13,600
And then, you know, also if 
you're taking it before bedtime,

1449
01:34:13,600 --> 01:34:17,160
it's, it's also like it's 
basically working over the 

1450
01:34:17,160 --> 01:34:21,520
course of the entire night of 
sleep to, you know, helped the 

1451
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:25,280
all the recovery markers, anti 
inflammation, anti oxidation. 

1452
01:34:26,640 --> 01:34:34,880
And yeah, I mean, I did a couple
of tests myself with it and like

1453
01:34:34,880 --> 01:34:37,680
my lactate was like noticeably 
lower. 

1454
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:46,120
Like, I was like, it was like. 3
point O to two point O from 

1455
01:34:46,840 --> 01:34:52,720
without and with ITC so. 
Heart rate too was like lower 

1456
01:34:52,720 --> 01:34:56,080
during harder efforts or what? 
You know what, I actually don't 

1457
01:34:56,600 --> 01:35:00,280
know if I looked at my heart 
rate, I, I could go back and 

1458
01:35:00,280 --> 01:35:02,760
look at that, but I, I don't 
think I paid attention to that. 

1459
01:35:02,760 --> 01:35:07,640
I was, you know, testing lactate
is like still relatively new for

1460
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:09,400
me. 
So I was like, it was enough 

1461
01:35:09,400 --> 01:35:12,080
like trying to like do the just.
Focus on that. 

1462
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:14,760
And focus on that and think 
about those numbers. 

1463
01:35:14,760 --> 01:35:21,280
But yeah, it's, it's honestly 
pretty, it's pretty incredible 

1464
01:35:21,280 --> 01:35:26,040
stuff. 
And like, yeah, we're only 

1465
01:35:26,040 --> 01:35:31,840
hearing like either positive or 
like neutral results on it. 

1466
01:35:31,840 --> 01:35:34,160
And it's like overwhelmingly 
positive. 

1467
01:35:34,200 --> 01:35:39,640
So it's pretty, pretty exciting.
I'm excited to go into an indoor

1468
01:35:39,640 --> 01:35:42,840
season with this because like, I
guess here's the general 

1469
01:35:42,840 --> 01:35:45,240
confusion that a lot of people 
might have is just sort of like 

1470
01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:48,880
has a different than bicarb and 
it's like the two can go hand in

1471
01:35:48,880 --> 01:35:50,480
hand, right? 
Like there's some athletes who 

1472
01:35:50,480 --> 01:35:52,480
do. 
Yeah, I think they work in 

1473
01:35:52,480 --> 01:35:57,400
different pathways. 
And like bicarb has more of like

1474
01:35:57,400 --> 01:36:02,680
an exaggerated effect on 
lactate, whereas like I think 

1475
01:36:02,680 --> 01:36:07,360
bicarb should work like whatever
lactate you're pushing. 

1476
01:36:08,360 --> 01:36:13,880
But like Gnomeo, the the sweet 
spot for Gnomeo is like when 

1477
01:36:13,880 --> 01:36:15,280
you're. 
Working out in a. 

1478
01:36:16,440 --> 01:36:20,360
Like a zone of like 2 to 8 
millimoles of lactate, like 

1479
01:36:20,360 --> 01:36:24,320
that's like the sweet spot where
it's most potent, I guess. 

1480
01:36:25,360 --> 01:36:31,960
And so like the way I think 
about it is it like has like a 

1481
01:36:31,960 --> 01:36:39,920
similar effects to what it like 
we've seen or what I've seen in 

1482
01:36:40,800 --> 01:36:43,960
like the double threshold 
training how like you can. 

1483
01:36:44,560 --> 01:36:50,200
By like keeping the training 
intensity down, you can do more 

1484
01:36:50,200 --> 01:36:53,800
and get fitter that way. 
That's how I think of Gnomeo. 

1485
01:36:53,800 --> 01:37:00,640
It like takes like the training 
intensity down and it like 

1486
01:37:00,960 --> 01:37:06,560
either allows you to do more 
with the same like effect on the

1487
01:37:06,560 --> 01:37:11,920
body or do this the same amount 
of training and like reduce the 

1488
01:37:11,920 --> 01:37:13,920
effect on the body if that if 
that makes sense. 

1489
01:37:15,000 --> 01:37:20,640
So yeah, lowers lactate. 
And then there's also some stuff

1490
01:37:20,640 --> 01:37:29,360
saying that like ITC helps, it 
helps to facilitate training 

1491
01:37:29,360 --> 01:37:33,320
adaptation gains, which is like,
it just seems like it has like a

1492
01:37:33,320 --> 01:37:37,760
snowballing effective like 
positive effects on, on trading 

1493
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:41,120
and recovery. 
So it's like, I don't know, it's

1494
01:37:41,240 --> 01:37:46,720
I'm getting super geeked out 
about it and like thinking about

1495
01:37:46,720 --> 01:37:51,120
like just trying training again 
for a little bit and like maybe 

1496
01:37:51,120 --> 01:37:53,720
doing like a marathon and seeing
how things go. 

1497
01:37:55,400 --> 01:37:59,040
So yeah, it's super exciting. 
I'm like so happy. 

1498
01:37:59,440 --> 01:38:02,160
No, and it and I guess like the 
the cool part is that I think, 

1499
01:38:02,520 --> 01:38:05,840
you know, people at all levels, 
you know, can try this and start

1500
01:38:05,840 --> 01:38:07,840
to see each sort of like their 
own gains. 

1501
01:38:07,840 --> 01:38:10,440
Like it does take a little bit 
of an investment. 

1502
01:38:10,640 --> 01:38:13,840
Runners are the type of people 
who will invest in super shoes. 

1503
01:38:13,840 --> 01:38:17,800
And so people should I think 
just consider this as just like 

1504
01:38:17,800 --> 01:38:21,280
another extension of trying to 
find like those marginal gains 

1505
01:38:21,280 --> 01:38:24,120
and like this could be a little 
bit of a difference maker. 

1506
01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:28,000
So all right, people got through
just sort of our organic little 

1507
01:38:28,000 --> 01:38:33,880
AD read there for our sponsors, 
but I want to kind of close out 

1508
01:38:33,880 --> 01:38:37,320
with some, you know, kind of 
really, you know, maybe rapid 

1509
01:38:37,320 --> 01:38:41,360
fire just sort of like 
superlatives on, you know, all 

1510
01:38:41,360 --> 01:38:44,160
right, let's start with most 
talented training partner ever. 

1511
01:38:44,440 --> 01:38:50,600
We we've made this list a couple
of times and we think that Lopez

1512
01:38:50,600 --> 01:38:53,480
tops the list. 
Lopez was up there. 

1513
01:38:54,000 --> 01:38:57,360
And that's talented. 
But like there's because I think

1514
01:38:57,360 --> 01:38:59,600
when you've explained this to me
before, like you, you said that 

1515
01:38:59,600 --> 01:39:01,880
there's like talent and hard 
work hardest working, right? 

1516
01:39:01,880 --> 01:39:02,920
Like there's. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1517
01:39:02,920 --> 01:39:04,480
On Bowerman. 
You guys used to keep track of 

1518
01:39:04,480 --> 01:39:07,120
that, right? 
Yeah, we had like a team, team 

1519
01:39:07,120 --> 01:39:10,960
talent and a team hard work. 
And you were like, you were 

1520
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:17,760
divvied up into your respective 
team based on, Yeah, just, you 

1521
01:39:17,760 --> 01:39:19,880
know, I think it's pretty 
self-explanatory. 

1522
01:39:20,600 --> 01:39:23,120
All right, so most talented was 
Lopez. 

1523
01:39:23,560 --> 01:39:24,440
Yeah. 
Hardest working. 

1524
01:39:24,840 --> 01:39:30,040
Hardest working man, I got to 
say Solinsky. 

1525
01:39:30,640 --> 01:39:35,280
I mean like when he was training
his hardest, he was running like

1526
01:39:35,280 --> 01:39:44,000
120 miles a week like Badger. 
So like, yeah, maybe like 130 or

1527
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:49,600
something like that. 
And most days he was getting 

1528
01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:52,400
under 6 minute pace like on his 
training runs. 

1529
01:39:53,240 --> 01:40:00,160
And he would, yeah, do you know,
two hour, 15 minute long runs, 

1530
01:40:00,160 --> 01:40:03,600
just hammering the whole time 
like his double S He was like 

1531
01:40:03,800 --> 01:40:10,320
getting under 6 minute pace. 
Like he was, it was scary and it

1532
01:40:10,320 --> 01:40:12,720
was a night, it was honestly a 
nightmare training with him. 

1533
01:40:12,720 --> 01:40:17,880
He we would like, you know, 
sometimes like get warmed up 

1534
01:40:18,080 --> 01:40:20,120
like at the start of a run, 
morning run. 

1535
01:40:21,080 --> 01:40:23,760
See him on the other side of the
field and like, run away from 

1536
01:40:23,760 --> 01:40:26,560
him because we didn't want to, 
like, run with him on our off 

1537
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:28,160
days. 
It was like, brutal. 

1538
01:40:28,520 --> 01:40:31,080
But I think he's he's number 
one, yeah. 

1539
01:40:31,800 --> 01:40:34,400
I think I've already gone 
through this, but all right, 

1540
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:38,080
proudest race you're saying? 
Paris Steeplechase, 2015. 

1541
01:40:38,200 --> 01:40:41,200
Yeah, I think so, yeah. 
Toughest. 

1542
01:40:41,640 --> 01:40:44,680
Toughest race? 
I mean, there was some like 

1543
01:40:44,680 --> 01:40:50,240
tough, like really bad ones. 
I'm wondering if there's a deep 

1544
01:40:50,240 --> 01:40:53,240
cut in there like a like a 
Stanford 5K or something. 

1545
01:40:54,840 --> 01:40:58,040
Oh man. 
Oh no, I got it. 

1546
01:40:58,640 --> 01:41:11,320
I did a indoor 5K at the Armory 
2013 I think where we brought 

1547
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:14,920
the the whole team out there to 
like run super fast and I was 

1548
01:41:14,920 --> 01:41:16,960
like. 
I remember this one. 

1549
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:21,200
I, I don't know what I did that 
that winter, but I was like not 

1550
01:41:21,200 --> 01:41:27,320
fit and I went out there and I 
did like a little bit of 

1551
01:41:27,320 --> 01:41:33,640
bleeding like late in the race I
think and like absolutely blew 

1552
01:41:33,640 --> 01:41:37,800
up and I think I ran like 3 
minutes for my last Ki want to 

1553
01:41:37,800 --> 01:41:41,480
say like something ridiculously 
slow. 

1554
01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:46,000
Yeah, you ended up 1333 in that 
one. 

1555
01:41:46,280 --> 01:41:49,440
Yeah, and everyone else ran like
1312 or something like that. 

1556
01:41:49,880 --> 01:41:53,280
Lopez ran 13O7. 
CD ran 1312. 

1557
01:41:53,360 --> 01:41:58,080
Bumby ran 1323. 
Elliot ran 1333. 

1558
01:41:58,240 --> 01:42:03,960
Tegan Camp was behind you 1335. 
Kerma Macheso was 1345. 

1559
01:42:04,080 --> 01:42:11,280
Yeah, I I blew up so hard and 
yeah, had like a nasty. 

1560
01:42:11,880 --> 01:42:17,280
Bad last K and I was like, yeah,
like I think I puked after the 

1561
01:42:17,280 --> 01:42:19,640
race. 
I like never puked after races. 

1562
01:42:19,640 --> 01:42:22,080
I was like, yeah, it was awful. 
And it was like, so. 

1563
01:42:22,080 --> 01:42:25,240
Hot in there, too. 
It was like, yeah, I'm not good.

1564
01:42:26,120 --> 01:42:27,920
Yeah. 
You guys didn't have the misters

1565
01:42:27,920 --> 01:42:30,080
I guess that they just installed
at the R range. 

1566
01:42:30,120 --> 01:42:32,840
Really. 
Yeah, it kind of brings just 

1567
01:42:32,960 --> 01:42:36,560
sort of it's not as humid, I 
think like it's eliminated 

1568
01:42:36,560 --> 01:42:38,600
people from having like the 
track hack for days. 

1569
01:42:38,600 --> 01:42:40,960
Oh, interesting. 
So yeah, this is all these 

1570
01:42:40,960 --> 01:42:42,360
little games that are happening 
out. 

1571
01:42:42,680 --> 01:42:45,160
All right. 
You wore some hilarious race 

1572
01:42:45,160 --> 01:42:50,080
kits in high school, like at the
time, did you think it was it 

1573
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:51,560
intentional? 
Did you think they were funny 

1574
01:42:51,560 --> 01:42:52,840
looking? 
I guess one of the photos that 

1575
01:42:52,840 --> 01:42:56,520
got dropped in our group chat 
was there's this one from you in

1576
01:42:56,520 --> 01:43:00,360
high school and you're wearing 
like a green, green headband, 

1577
01:43:00,360 --> 01:43:06,280
blue Under Armour top. 
Like I think, yeah, I have no 

1578
01:43:06,280 --> 01:43:07,720
idea what what race this is 
from. 

1579
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:09,360
But yeah, that's Putlocker 
Midwest. 

1580
01:43:11,760 --> 01:43:14,200
Yeah, I'm pretty sure I thought 
that was cool at the time. 

1581
01:43:14,280 --> 01:43:20,480
So that one I, yeah, I think I 
thought that was cool. 

1582
01:43:21,280 --> 01:43:25,120
There was another one where I 
wore like a like a three on 

1583
01:43:25,120 --> 01:43:28,760
three basketball tournament 
T-shirt that I had like gotten 

1584
01:43:28,760 --> 01:43:32,520
from a thrift store that that 
was more funny and then. 

1585
01:43:33,360 --> 01:43:37,000
Another one, my like boss at the
running store that I worked at 

1586
01:43:37,000 --> 01:43:40,120
in high school, he was like 
obsessed with the Andy Griffith 

1587
01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:46,960
Show and he made me a like he 
screen printed a like kit for me

1588
01:43:46,960 --> 01:43:49,680
that I wore at Nike Outdoor 
nationals my senior year. 

1589
01:43:49,680 --> 01:43:52,720
That said. 
Schwump lives, which was like a 

1590
01:43:52,720 --> 01:43:54,560
character from The Andy Griffith
Show. 

1591
01:43:54,560 --> 01:43:56,520
I also thought that that was 
just funny. 

1592
01:43:57,680 --> 01:43:58,960
There we go. 
All right. 

1593
01:43:59,200 --> 01:44:04,680
Last time that you were on this 
podcast, you said, well, I think

1594
01:44:04,680 --> 01:44:07,560
it was an assessment of like 
where the event has changed. 

1595
01:44:07,560 --> 01:44:11,120
And so you said there's been a 
couple changes, but I feel like 

1596
01:44:11,120 --> 01:44:14,080
it's gotten deeper and there's 
more than two major studs at the

1597
01:44:14,080 --> 01:44:16,320
top right now. 
And you also said something 

1598
01:44:16,320 --> 01:44:19,600
about how like you have to be, 
I've always been a believer that

1599
01:44:20,600 --> 01:44:22,880
it's going to make you a better 
Steepler by just pushing your 

1600
01:44:22,880 --> 01:44:26,240
boundaries in the flat events 
and becoming an overall a better

1601
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:29,000
overall runner. 
So you kind of like, you know, 

1602
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:31,720
if, if everyone's saying like, 
all right, who knows ball, who 

1603
01:44:31,720 --> 01:44:33,800
knows track. 
I mean, it's you 'cause you kind

1604
01:44:33,800 --> 01:44:37,640
of telegraphed it's like George 
Beamish being world champ. 

1605
01:44:37,640 --> 01:44:40,320
So from your seat, I guess who's
next? 

1606
01:44:40,320 --> 01:44:42,160
Who's the next? 
Who's the next guy who's going 

1607
01:44:42,160 --> 01:44:46,320
to break 8? 
Like I know on the US side of 

1608
01:44:46,320 --> 01:44:51,160
things, like it's a pretty tight
like pack at the top. 

1609
01:44:51,160 --> 01:44:54,520
I mean, Kenneth has the silver 
medal from from last year, but 

1610
01:44:55,560 --> 01:44:58,720
you know, not as good of a year 
this year. 

1611
01:44:58,720 --> 01:44:59,880
So it's a little bit more wide 
open. 

1612
01:44:59,880 --> 01:45:01,800
But who who who's next in the 
steeple? 

1613
01:45:02,320 --> 01:45:03,480
Your. 
Assessment. 

1614
01:45:03,960 --> 01:45:07,720
Let's get get both and just sort
of like is, is George, you know,

1615
01:45:07,720 --> 01:45:12,640
kind of the next guy to break 8 
and who's the next top guy in in

1616
01:45:12,640 --> 01:45:15,360
the USI? 
Would, I would guess like 

1617
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:21,240
worldwide, it's looking like, if
we're talking like non Africans,

1618
01:45:21,480 --> 01:45:30,760
it's looking like, I would guess
either Rupert or Mura from Japan

1619
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:36,520
would be those two guys are 
they've run really close to 8 

1620
01:45:36,520 --> 01:45:40,840
minutes already. 
And I think they've kind of 

1621
01:45:40,960 --> 01:45:44,520
proved that they can run like 
the faster races, maybe a little

1622
01:45:44,520 --> 01:45:47,360
bit better. 
Like I would love, I would love 

1623
01:45:47,360 --> 01:45:53,720
to see Jordy like put himself in
like a really, really fast race,

1624
01:45:55,920 --> 01:45:59,120
like just right away, just to, 
just to see what happens. 

1625
01:46:00,560 --> 01:46:03,920
He's obviously like got the 
chops to like close championship

1626
01:46:03,920 --> 01:46:07,320
races. 
And I, I think he could do like 

1627
01:46:07,320 --> 01:46:11,280
he'll, he'll be in the mix for 
medals for a while just with 

1628
01:46:11,320 --> 01:46:16,800
like the kick that he has. 
I I think but like he what is 

1629
01:46:16,800 --> 01:46:21,800
his PBI think it's like 813. 
George's PB is eight O 9 from 8 

1630
01:46:21,800 --> 01:46:25,280
O 9. 
OK, yeah, so I that's still a 

1631
01:46:25,280 --> 01:46:29,200
pretty big jump to like Break 8 
I think, especially with the 

1632
01:46:29,200 --> 01:46:31,960
style of racer that he is. 
I would love to see it. 

1633
01:46:32,720 --> 01:46:37,200
I think it would be good for 
Steepling if, if he could, he 

1634
01:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,920
could do it and like continue 
pushing himself. 

1635
01:46:42,480 --> 01:46:46,440
But I think yeah, Rupert and 
you're like, they're the closest

1636
01:46:46,440 --> 01:46:49,800
guys right now. 
So if I if I had to put money, I

1637
01:46:49,800 --> 01:46:52,040
would probably put it on them. 
And then I think, yeah, in the 

1638
01:46:52,040 --> 01:47:00,320
States, Brooks has been like the
only guy to show that he's like 

1639
01:47:00,320 --> 01:47:03,120
at that level, I think 
currently. 

1640
01:47:03,680 --> 01:47:05,640
So I would have to put it on 
him. 

1641
01:47:06,520 --> 01:47:10,240
But, you know, I'll be rooting 
for my boy Duncan to make a big 

1642
01:47:10,240 --> 01:47:13,840
jump this year. 
I think I think he's got some 

1643
01:47:13,840 --> 01:47:15,720
good momentum going into next 
year. 

1644
01:47:15,720 --> 01:47:19,640
And I think he's he's in like a 
good headspace going into it. 

1645
01:47:19,640 --> 01:47:22,240
So I'll be obviously rooting for
him. 

1646
01:47:22,920 --> 01:47:25,800
Yeah, I guess like final thing 
is like when you assess like how

1647
01:47:25,800 --> 01:47:29,240
the world's race played out this
year, I mean, compared to just 

1648
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:32,960
sort of like the races that you 
meddled in, like you were, you 

1649
01:47:32,960 --> 01:47:35,800
know, the white guy hanging in 
an 804 race. 

1650
01:47:36,160 --> 01:47:39,000
But it's like this one. 
It was like he had George 

1651
01:47:39,000 --> 01:47:43,760
Beamish steal the show that do 
you think it takes on a Matt 

1652
01:47:43,760 --> 01:47:47,800
Centruitz effect in the steeple 
where it's like an Elba Kali 

1653
01:47:47,800 --> 01:47:50,440
will never let it and and some 
of the East Africans will never 

1654
01:47:50,440 --> 01:47:54,040
let it beat this slow again. 
Well, I mean I've been thinking 

1655
01:47:54,040 --> 01:47:59,040
that for the last like 4 years 
now like I don't know why 

1656
01:47:59,480 --> 01:48:03,400
Lametra Guerma like keeps 
letting it go slow it like I 

1657
01:48:03,400 --> 01:48:07,960
don't I don't get it at all. 
He's the world record holder. 

1658
01:48:08,000 --> 01:48:12,160
I mean this year I I get it. 
But like every other. 

1659
01:48:12,200 --> 01:48:13,560
Year that concussion and all 
that, right? 

1660
01:48:13,600 --> 01:48:17,640
Yeah. 
Eugene Budapest and then Tokyo. 

1661
01:48:17,640 --> 01:48:24,520
Like I or not sorry, not Tokyo, 
Paris, like dude, I, I don't 

1662
01:48:24,520 --> 01:48:28,160
know what he's doing. 
So I keep thinking that it's 

1663
01:48:28,440 --> 01:48:31,640
someone's going to make it go 
fast and no one, no one does. 

1664
01:48:31,640 --> 01:48:39,120
So my my take is that I would 
guess that El Bakali thinks he 

1665
01:48:39,440 --> 01:48:44,160
he let up a little bit and like 
he would have meddled, Hey, like

1666
01:48:44,280 --> 01:48:46,800
kicked all the way through the 
line or he would have won. 

1667
01:48:47,640 --> 01:48:55,800
I think he played it just close 
enough to like think he like did

1668
01:48:55,800 --> 01:48:59,720
things like almost right. 
So I I don't see him like 

1669
01:49:00,080 --> 01:49:02,400
pushing from the front. 
It's just not his style. 

1670
01:49:04,200 --> 01:49:07,080
Derma's got to do it or someone 
else. 

1671
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:12,640
But I, yeah, I'm not like 
convinced. 

1672
01:49:12,640 --> 01:49:16,840
No one's shown me anything that 
says like the races are going to

1673
01:49:16,840 --> 01:49:20,600
be like 8 flat anytime soon. 
But I'd love to see ya. 

1674
01:49:20,880 --> 01:49:23,880
All right, maybe with this 
Gnomeo job, you might have some,

1675
01:49:23,880 --> 01:49:27,480
some work flexibility to jump on
as a analyst with Sidious Mag 

1676
01:49:27,480 --> 01:49:31,760
because we've got obviously, you
know, Eric is our distance guy, 

1677
01:49:31,760 --> 01:49:35,480
but we don't have a steeple, I 
guess Aisha, but you know, the 

1678
01:49:35,640 --> 01:49:38,280
the two of you could be our, our
our steeple experts in the 

1679
01:49:38,280 --> 01:49:41,440
future. 
But Evan, this has been awesome 

1680
01:49:41,440 --> 01:49:45,440
to go back and and reflect on so
many great moments from your 

1681
01:49:45,440 --> 01:49:47,680
career. 
Congratulations on an awesome 

1682
01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:51,280
one and looking forward to 
seeing you around on the circuit

1683
01:49:51,280 --> 01:49:52,560
now I guess like in this new 
role. 

1684
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:53,920
Yeah, Yeah. 
Thanks. 

1685
01:49:53,920 --> 01:49:56,440
Yeah, appreciate it. 
Thanks. 

1686
01:49:56,840 --> 01:49:59,520
Thanks for being so kind over my
career. 

1687
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:03,920
You've been awesome. 
And yeah, super excited to stay 

1688
01:50:03,920 --> 01:50:07,680
in touch with track and I'm, I'm
sure I'll see you down the road.

1689
01:50:09,640 --> 01:50:11,200
Thank you all for listening to 
this episode. 

1690
01:50:11,200 --> 01:50:13,280
This episode was produced by 
Jasmine Fair. 

1691
01:50:13,440 --> 01:50:16,120
I love doing this for you guys. 
So please do me a favor and 

1692
01:50:16,120 --> 01:50:18,880
leave a five star view on Apple 
Podcast or Spotify. 

1693
01:50:18,880 --> 01:50:21,480
That helps us grow the show and 
get even more awesome guests. 

1694
01:50:22,000 --> 01:50:23,560
Let me know what you're enjoying
about the show. 

1695
01:50:23,760 --> 01:50:26,040
Make sure you're subscribed or 
following on your favorite 

1696
01:50:26,040 --> 01:50:27,880
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Players, please share this 

1697
01:50:27,880 --> 01:50:30,240
episode with your friends if you
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1698
01:50:30,240 --> 01:50:32,520
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Let's build this thing together.

1699
01:50:32,680 --> 01:50:34,680
Visit cityofsmack.com for a lot 
more. 

1700
01:50:34,680 --> 01:50:37,080
We've got a brand new website 
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1701
01:50:37,080 --> 01:50:39,520
and podcasts. 
As always, I love track and 

1702
01:50:39,520 --> 01:50:41,680
field. 
I'm Chris Chavez, see you next 

1703
01:50:41,680 --> 01:50:41,920
time.