1 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,160 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is presented by 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,480 Lollipop. Because of course it is. 3 00:00:07,960 --> 00:00:10,840 I feel like everywhere I look lately I'm seeing Lollipop. 4 00:00:10,880 --> 00:00:12,760 It's on all of my favorite shows. 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,960 I saw it on Traitors when the contestants were sitting around 6 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:18,880 the mansion trying to decide who to vanish at the Round Table. 7 00:00:19,280 --> 00:00:23,720 It pops up in episodes of Shrinking on Apple TV, and it 8 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,800 even had a moment in The Housemaid starring Sidney 9 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:28,600 Sweeney. You've seen it all over our 10 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,880 shows now for a couple of years. Basically, Lollipop is 11 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,000 everywhere right now and I totally get why. 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,400 My current favorite flavor when people ask is tropical punch and 13 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:40,960 it tastes like a vacation in a can. 14 00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:44,440 I need that right now with how brutal this East Coast winter 15 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:46,760 has been. It's got the perfect balance of 16 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:49,480 pineapple, passion fruit, Mandarin and apple, so you get 17 00:00:49,480 --> 00:00:53,000 that nostalgic fruit punch flavor, but way more crisp and 18 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,040 way more refreshing. And Lollipop isn't just about 19 00:00:56,040 --> 00:00:58,840 great taste. 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If you haven't had Lollipop yet, 28 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,200 grab a can and see what the hype is all about. 29 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,720 Trust me, your taste buds and your gut will both be happy. 30 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:34,800 The best deal on the Internet for Lollipop is 25% off for 31 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,560 Citius Mag podcast listeners. We love it when our listeners 32 00:01:37,560 --> 00:01:39,000 tag us in their stories with them. 33 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,160 Support them because they support us. 34 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:46,400 Citius 25 at checkout for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 35 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,800 That's Citius 25 for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 36 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:54,680 I cannot believe how strong our partnership with Lollipop has 37 00:01:54,680 --> 00:01:56,720 been over the years. We're going to keep this thing 38 00:01:56,720 --> 00:01:59,560 going. We've made it the runner's soda. 39 00:02:04,440 --> 00:02:06,960 What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs Mag 40 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:09,000 podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 41 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,360 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:14,320 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads 43 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:17,160 and behind the scenes, from world class athletes and coaches 44 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,720 to innovators shaping the sport. If it's happening on the track, 45 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,640 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 46 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:27,160 deep dives into the moments that define careers and the kind of 47 00:02:27,160 --> 00:02:30,160 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 48 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,360 So let's get into it because we love track and. 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:36,520 Field. Before we dive into today's 50 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:38,400 episode, a quick moment of gratitude. 51 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,320 The only reason this show keeps humming is because you press 52 00:02:41,320 --> 00:02:44,000 play, you text it to your running buddies and you care 53 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:46,040 about this sport just as much as we do. 54 00:02:46,280 --> 00:02:49,600 That means everything to us. If the podcast has been part of 55 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:52,040 your weekly routine, one of the simplest ways to support it is 56 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,360 by leaving a five star view on Apple Podcast. 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:02:57,400 It helps more people find the show and keeps us doing what we 58 00:02:57,400 --> 00:02:59,320 love. And that's talking track. 59 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:01,560 With you. We also love shouting out 60 00:03:01,560 --> 00:03:03,680 listeners who take the time to leave those reviews. 61 00:03:03,920 --> 00:03:06,360 So here's one that made me smile. 62 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:08,920 Chris Chavez practices what he preaches. 63 00:03:08,920 --> 00:03:10,640 I've been a listener for a while now. 64 00:03:10,840 --> 00:03:13,240 Enjoy nurding out while I hear Chris and Preet breakdown race 65 00:03:13,240 --> 00:03:15,480 performances and speculate on future ones. 66 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,080 Love the data-driven estimates but also the intuition of the 67 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,280 host. Imagine my surprise while I was 68 00:03:21,280 --> 00:03:24,080 doing my long run on the Central Park Loop and I look up and I 69 00:03:24,080 --> 00:03:27,880 see Chris running toward me while his voice was in my ear. 70 00:03:29,120 --> 00:03:33,440 That one was from Sarah, Alaska. OK, first of all, that was in 71 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:36,120 fact me. Despite what my Strava has shown 72 00:03:36,120 --> 00:03:38,360 lately, I can't confirm. I have been leaving the 73 00:03:38,360 --> 00:03:41,120 apartment and actually getting out for runs a little less 74 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,600 lately since I've been dealing with some injuries and it's been 75 00:03:43,680 --> 00:03:48,320 brutally cold here in New York. But seriously, that review made 76 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:49,960 my day. There's something wild about 77 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,520 thinking that the timing of everything lining up that my 78 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,280 voice might be in someone's headphones while they're 79 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,280 unknowingly sharing miles in the same. 80 00:03:57,280 --> 00:03:59,600 Park as me. Thanks for listening, Sarah. 81 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,080 Thanks for nerding out with us. Really appreciate you. 82 00:04:02,960 --> 00:04:05,320 To everyone else listening, thank you. 83 00:04:05,400 --> 00:04:07,720 And if you feel the same way, taking a minute to leave a five 84 00:04:07,720 --> 00:04:10,120 star review on Apple Podcast is the best way to support the 85 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:11,920 show. We read every single one and 86 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:17,079 they genuinely mean a lot to us. My guest for today's episode is 87 00:04:17,079 --> 00:04:19,000 a good friend of Sidious MAGA, one of the most thoughtful, 88 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,040 transparent and compelling figures in American marathoning. 89 00:04:22,280 --> 00:04:26,200 I'm talking about Clayton Young. He joins us with some major news 90 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:27,760 ahead of the spring marathon season. 91 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:31,600 After seven years with a six, Clayton is officially entering a 92 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:36,320 new chapter as a Brooks athlete heading into the 2026 Boston 93 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:39,560 Marathon. And this wasn't some quick, easy 94 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:42,040 switch. This was months of 95 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:45,760 conversations, lab testing, contract negotiations, and one 96 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,240 of the biggest decisions of his professional career. 97 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:52,280 He did it all while representing himself while coming back from a 98 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:55,440 serious ankle injury and trying to get ready for Boston on a 99 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,880 compressed build. If you've listened to his 100 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:00,560 previous appearances on this show, you know that Clayton is 101 00:05:00,560 --> 00:05:03,360 absolutely no stranger to betting on himself in every 102 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,200 possible way, as an athlete, as his own agent, as a creator, and 103 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:10,440 as one still chasing the biggest goals of his career. 104 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,600 He talks about why Brooks felt right, what he learned through 105 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:17,160 the self representation process, and how performance remains the 106 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,560 center of every decision that he makes. 107 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:23,160 We also get into the injury that derailed nearly five months of 108 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:26,000 training, the breakthrough that got him running pain free again, 109 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:29,360 and how he's approaching Boston with a mix of curiosity, 110 00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:32,320 realism, and the same competitive fire that made him 111 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:34,720 one of the top American marathoners in the world. 112 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,120 He's still pushing forward, even when things aren't necessarily 113 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,920 going according to plan. Without further ado, here is 114 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:56,040 Clayton Young. All right, now welcome back good 115 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:01,480 friend of the podcast, Clayton Young fresh with some big news 116 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:04,400 heading into spring marathon season. 117 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,360 Big switch. This is going to be one that 118 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:09,760 shakes up, I think the talk and the lead up to to Boston. 119 00:06:10,040 --> 00:06:12,560 Clayton, I'll leave it to you. Why don't you share the news 120 00:06:12,560 --> 00:06:17,360 with the listeners? What's What's the big change in 121 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,560 2026 for you? Big change 2026. 122 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:24,400 New chapter in the book. I am proud to be a Brooks 123 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,320 athlete at the Boston Marathon. Wow. 124 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:33,640 I when when the news hit my inbox and we were arranging this 125 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:36,800 interview, I was like, OK. That's that's that's. 126 00:06:36,800 --> 00:06:39,640 Something different. Didn't see this one coming. 127 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:45,400 And part part of this is also, you know, we've had you on the 128 00:06:45,400 --> 00:06:48,520 podcast before and you've discussed sort of like what it's 129 00:06:48,520 --> 00:06:53,280 been like to represent yourself, like you are your own agent and 130 00:06:53,280 --> 00:06:55,760 that was a big change in 2025 for you. 131 00:06:55,760 --> 00:07:00,040 So this must have been pretty intensive for you to take on 132 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:05,000 your own footwear apparel sponsorship negotiation. 133 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:10,800 What was the biggest challenge? Yeah, this was, this is kind of 134 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:14,360 been, you know, in the works for a long, long time. 135 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:17,000 To be honest. This negotiation, I, I know 136 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:20,800 that, you know, I knew that my contract was with ASICS was 137 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:22,840 going to be ending in at the end of 2025. 138 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:27,800 And, and so, yeah, early 2024 when I decided to represent 139 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,920 myself, like I knew that this would be a big one. 140 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:34,240 And, you know, it's, it's honestly, it's been tough like 141 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:36,240 this. You know, there's a reason that 142 00:07:36,240 --> 00:07:39,200 we're, we're doing this announcement in the middle of 143 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:41,520 March. It's not perfect, it's not 144 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:43,880 pretty. And that's part of the sport. 145 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:45,600 It's like it's business at the end of the day. 146 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,920 But, you know, at the same time, it's been a really, really cool 147 00:07:49,920 --> 00:07:53,360 process to get to know so many brands and people in the sport. 148 00:07:53,880 --> 00:07:58,400 You know, I, I, I was able to reach out to a lot of different 149 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:00,880 director sports marketing and go on different trips and get to 150 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:04,120 know different shoes and people and, and develop relationships, 151 00:08:04,120 --> 00:08:09,120 relationships that I know will be valuable for me as an athlete 152 00:08:09,120 --> 00:08:12,160 for the rest of my career. But also, you know, after this 153 00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:15,800 career and, and, you know, I'm, I'm really grateful for all the 154 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,560 great conversations I was able to have with, with those people. 155 00:08:18,560 --> 00:08:22,040 And, but yeah, it was, it was tough, I'm not going to lie. 156 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:27,880 And, and, you know, I'll always be grateful for for ASICS and, 157 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:31,080 and the first, you know, seven years of my pro career that I 158 00:08:31,080 --> 00:08:35,200 had with them and their support. But I'm really, really excited 159 00:08:35,200 --> 00:08:38,880 for the new chapter with Brooks and, and yeah, I'm, I'm excited 160 00:08:38,880 --> 00:08:41,360 to kind of share that story of why I'm so excited. 161 00:08:42,159 --> 00:08:46,040 Yeah, so why Brooks? Yeah, I think when I first 162 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:50,600 hopped on on the phone with, with Brooks, I was, I was 163 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,680 dealing with, with Garrett Heath. 164 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:55,120 And if, if anybody knows Garrett Heath, Garrett Heath has been in 165 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:57,160 the sport for a long time. He's an athlete himself. 166 00:08:57,160 --> 00:09:02,800 He ran for Brooks for a long time And and it was really at 167 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,760 first great to get to know him simply because he was an 168 00:09:05,760 --> 00:09:08,840 athlete, right. And he, he understood me to a 169 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:12,720 very, very deep degree. And, you know, he, he's also 170 00:09:12,720 --> 00:09:14,040 really good friends with Jared Ward. 171 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:19,000 And, and so, you know, I, I just, I have this really great 172 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,240 respect for Jared Ward And, and Jared Ward always spoke really 173 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:23,560 highly of, of Garrett. He is. 174 00:09:23,560 --> 00:09:25,680 So it was first great to get to know Garrett, but then he was 175 00:09:25,680 --> 00:09:29,040 able to kind of paint this picture of, of what Brooks could 176 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:30,680 be. And, you know, I had to be 177 00:09:30,680 --> 00:09:32,840 really patient. Like he, he listened to me. 178 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:38,080 He understood me not only as an athlete, but as a dad and as an 179 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,120 engineer and as a creator and, and all these things. 180 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:44,160 And I had to be really patient. But then he put a contract in 181 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,480 front of me that was very personal and very Clayton 182 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:50,520 specific. And I really appreciated that. 183 00:09:50,560 --> 00:09:56,560 And you know, as I was going to this negotiation process, he 184 00:09:56,560 --> 00:10:01,000 took me out to to Seattle And so he brought Ashley and I, if 185 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,280 anybody knows me, you know that Ashley's a big part of who I am 186 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:06,800 in my decision making process and my performance as an 187 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:09,280 athlete. And so they brought both Ashley 188 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:14,080 and I out there and, and you know, my biggest concern right 189 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:16,920 off the bat, as I was talking with Garrett Heath was was 190 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,600 footwear, right? Like performance is my purpose 191 00:10:20,600 --> 00:10:22,640 as an athlete and performing at the highest level. 192 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,360 And so I knew that, you know, I'd been in a six for the last 193 00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,200 seven years, but I had no idea what performance was like with 194 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:31,640 any other brand. And so one of the first things I 195 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,880 did as I got my hands on a, on a pair of prototype Hyperion Elite 196 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,560 Sixes and I, I did some testing with them. 197 00:10:37,560 --> 00:10:41,920 And you know, I got in the lab actually here even before I left 198 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:46,400 to Seattle and I, I got in their shoes and did some testing the 199 00:10:46,400 --> 00:10:50,600 lab and then with stride and kind of did a blind study of 200 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,800 like how good are these shoes? Like can they compete at the 201 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,640 highest level that I'm used to? And like, can they perform even 202 00:10:57,640 --> 00:10:59,280 better? And I will tell you that the 203 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:04,760 data came back really positive. And I was, I was, I was really 204 00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:08,040 excited about that. And the other part that was 205 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:11,240 really cool about it is, as you guys know, and I'm sure we'll 206 00:11:11,240 --> 00:11:14,680 dive into this, but you know, I, I was coming off an injury. 207 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:18,000 I'd been injured for 18 weeks. And so even testing in super 208 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,360 shoes was kind of precarious at that time. 209 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,800 You know, I'd, I'd gotten injured in super shoes. 210 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:26,920 And so could I do an actual study and test in super shoes? 211 00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,520 And one thing I found with the Hyperion Lee 6 is just how 212 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:34,160 stable the shoe was for my ankle and how good my ankle felt in 213 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:36,360 the shoe. And, and so that was kind of 214 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,800 like, OK, you know, prototype is one thing, but can we see what 215 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,680 the rest of Brooks can do? And so like I said, we flew out 216 00:11:42,680 --> 00:11:45,640 to Seattle and the very first meeting I had of the day was 217 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:48,280 with their, their executive leadership team. 218 00:11:48,920 --> 00:11:51,440 And so I got to meet with them and kind of catch the vision of 219 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,560 what Brooks was. And I was grateful that I got to 220 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,600 meet them. Like it's not every day that you 221 00:11:56,600 --> 00:12:00,280 get to meet the, the executive team of a big company and 222 00:12:00,280 --> 00:12:03,960 understand why they value you and, and why you could value 223 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,640 them. But then the very next meeting 224 00:12:06,640 --> 00:12:10,440 is they knew that like performance was my focus was the 225 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:14,920 performance footwear team. And so I walk into their, their, 226 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:18,920 their lab essentially. And on the table, they have just 227 00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:22,840 a pile of shoes, just so many shoes, and they're just handing 228 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:24,920 me one after the other after the other. 229 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:26,680 And what are you wearing into that meeting? 230 00:12:26,680 --> 00:12:28,120 Are you wearing like a pair of loafers? 231 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,680 Like, do you have to go into these brand meetings as an 232 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:35,360 unattached free agent? You you were wearing ASICS to 233 00:12:35,360 --> 00:12:38,280 the Brooks HQ. No, no way. 234 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,920 I had to go a little Incognito. And, you know, after being with 235 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:46,760 a brand for seven years, like your, your closet is Chuck full 236 00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:50,280 of only one brand. Yeah, yeah, maybe I have some 237 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:52,360 Olympic gear, but I can't wear Nike either, right. 238 00:12:52,360 --> 00:12:56,560 So it's like, what do I wear? But I, you know, I've got 239 00:12:57,120 --> 00:13:00,240 honestly a handful of few select things that I could wear. 240 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,800 And but yeah, it was kind of funny walking in there. 241 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,280 But yeah, they're, they, they then presented to me what was, 242 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,000 you know, the Hyperion Lee 6. And then what's, what's down the 243 00:13:12,000 --> 00:13:15,160 pipeline and what they're working towards and what they're 244 00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:18,680 developing not for even from a footwear standpoint, but how to 245 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:20,960 support their athletes on a performance level. 246 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:25,200 And you know how they're doubling down on budgets from an 247 00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,200 R&D standpoint and how they're, they're essentially painting 248 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,000 this picture all the way to LA 2028, right? 249 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:35,000 Then I, I was like, wow, this is a brand that not only listens to 250 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:37,560 their athletes, like, right. My biggest concern from day one 251 00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:41,000 with Garrett Heath was, you know, footwear, right? 252 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:43,240 Like he knows I'm a nerd. He knows I love shoes. 253 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,240 He's like, OK, well, the first meeting of the day beyond the 254 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:47,800 executive, the leadership team is going to be with the 255 00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:51,160 performance or team. And then from there it just kind 256 00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:54,720 of cascaded, right? I, I met with the marketing team 257 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:59,000 and, you know, because they know I, I love to represent myself as 258 00:13:59,000 --> 00:14:01,440 an agent, but as an athlete, as a creator. 259 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:05,720 They showed me how they could support me as an athlete and a 260 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:08,880 creator. And that was really special 261 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,040 about how they would build my brand essentially. 262 00:14:11,680 --> 00:14:14,960 And, and then I think the two other things that I would say 263 00:14:14,960 --> 00:14:20,400 that I really love about Brooks is, is kind of how community 264 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:22,600 driven they are. Like it seems like at at all 265 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,880 these world major marathons, they have a big community 266 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:27,480 presence. You know, they have the Hyperion 267 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,520 houses. They're also really keen on this 268 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,560 idea of, you know, investing in the athletes in their 269 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:37,000 communities, right? You know, you hear these stories 270 00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:41,440 about all the Brooks beasts athletes and the the kind of 271 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:45,600 community events that they get to do with their hometowns and 272 00:14:45,800 --> 00:14:48,560 and you know, where they went to high school and where they grew 273 00:14:48,560 --> 00:14:51,680 up. But the last thing that was like 274 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:55,560 really cool is I got to hear about, you know, obviously they 275 00:14:56,640 --> 00:15:00,040 they now have Brooks XC, right? So they're not only investing in 276 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,960 in the in the top athletes in the world, but they're also 277 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,360 investing in the next generation. 278 00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,600 And I think more and more about how fulfilling that has been for 279 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:11,440 me, you know, as a pro athlete to kind of get back into kind of 280 00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,520 inspire the next generation, whether that's through YouTube 281 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:17,560 or speaking gigs. But, you know, that's, that's 282 00:15:17,560 --> 00:15:20,240 something that's really cool to be a part of. 283 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,160 Yeah. It, it was a really cool 284 00:15:22,160 --> 00:15:24,560 experience to meet all the personnel there and to get to 285 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:29,960 know them and, and to kind of catch the vision and, and yeah, 286 00:15:29,960 --> 00:15:32,680 I'm, I'm, yeah, of course, like I'm, you know, this is a 3-4 287 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:34,720 year deal. So I'm, I'm putting my Olympic 288 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:36,680 dreams in their hands and that's a little daunting. 289 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:42,560 It's a little scary, especially because I, you know, I know what 290 00:15:42,560 --> 00:15:46,160 I love, right? I, I, I loved ASICS for seven 291 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,480 years and, and that was a great chapter. 292 00:15:48,480 --> 00:15:51,400 But now I'm putting this Olympic dream in into a new chapter. 293 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,800 And honestly, I'm just excited for what the future holds with 294 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,840 Brooks and as an athlete and, and honestly beyond, even beyond 295 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,240 being an athlete. Specific to you and that 296 00:16:03,520 --> 00:16:08,800 attachment to the performance side of things making a change 297 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,840 like this always a a big risk when for seven years you've only 298 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:17,720 known you know ASICS and you've had you knew what meta speed, 299 00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,760 sky or edge worked for you and what you wanted. 300 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,360 You could see also from the podiums at some of these 301 00:16:25,360 --> 00:16:29,000 marathons around the world that like ASICS athletes were showing 302 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:31,880 up. And I always sort of think about 303 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:34,480 when athletes are making these switches from 1 brand to the 304 00:16:34,480 --> 00:16:37,360 next. For a handful, it could probably 305 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:41,440 be enough to just see those results from other athletes to 306 00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,840 be like, oh, that person is winning a bunch of races in that 307 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:46,520 brand. That's going to work for me. 308 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,240 But for you to take the shoes and do your own sort of testing, 309 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,440 like maybe it wasn't enough to just see like Casey Klinger ran 310 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,240 really well in Tokyo and that was a two O 8. 311 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,880 But that doesn't necessarily mean that I'm going to run, you 312 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,079 know, two O 6 or two O 5 in those shoes. 313 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,599 What were you looking for in sort of your own data-driven, 314 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:11,800 you know, testing that you wanted to see in the product 315 00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,800 that gave you the confidence to make the switch? 316 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:15,960 Yeah, I mean, you bring up a really good point. 317 00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:19,400 I will say that watching KC around 59 minutes and a half, 318 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,800 you know, third fastest American ever at Houston, like in the 319 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:27,200 Hyperion Elite Sixes, the protos, it was like, it was 320 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,320 like, oh, OK, like that was really validating alongside my 321 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,280 data as well as him running 2O8IN Tokyo. 322 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:37,440 And yeah, the data that I was looking for, you know, the two 323 00:17:37,440 --> 00:17:41,720 main factors that we look for when we do lab testing are your 324 00:17:41,720 --> 00:17:44,080 VO2 uptake. So essentially how much oxygen 325 00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:48,040 you're using at a certain pace. And you know, we're, we're 326 00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,600 usually cross testing between shoes and things like that. 327 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,040 And obviously the less oxygen you use in a shoe, the more 328 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:56,440 efficient you are, the better. And then the second metric that 329 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:59,560 we're often looking at is your peak force. 330 00:18:00,120 --> 00:18:02,880 And so if you can have a lower peak force over the distance of 331 00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:06,680 a marathon, that means less pounding, right, and not as much 332 00:18:06,680 --> 00:18:10,400 beat up of the legs. And, and so both of those 333 00:18:10,400 --> 00:18:15,800 metrics were lower, you know, lower VO2 uptake and lower peak 334 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:18,200 force. And so more efficient, less 335 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,040 pounding. And that that's a really, really 336 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,120 good sign. And, you know, I do believe that 337 00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:27,280 like we are in an age of super shoe era where things are very 338 00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:30,120 marginal, right? It's, but they do make a 339 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,680 difference as an ILEA athlete. And so I will say like most, you 340 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,440 know, nearly every brand across the board, you know, has closed 341 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:41,560 this gap of what used to be this chasm between the original super 342 00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:44,560 shoe and all these A type trainers that were beforehand. 343 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,640 But it was, yeah, it was really cool to see the data and, and 344 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,080 like I said, it also the stability that came with my 345 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,000 ankle. And then I think one of the more 346 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:59,080 exciting things too, that I, I, I noticed was, you know, Brooks 347 00:18:59,360 --> 00:19:04,640 shoes are about 50 grams heavier than what I'm used to. 348 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:09,440 And, you know, that 50 grams can make a difference over the 349 00:19:09,440 --> 00:19:12,880 length of a marathon. But what that really does show 350 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:16,360 me is the potential of what the shoe can be. 351 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,600 And so looking beyond and, you know, I've, I've had little 352 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,960 glimpses and, and teases, but like looking beyond of what the 353 00:19:24,000 --> 00:19:28,560 Hyperion Elite can be as it's continued to be stripped down 354 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:33,280 and like become a lighter shoe with, you know, the same 355 00:19:33,280 --> 00:19:36,760 geometry and foam and, and, and things that already make it 356 00:19:36,760 --> 00:19:40,400 great, just give it a high amount of potential. 357 00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:43,760 And I that's really exciting to me too, that there's room to 358 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:48,760 grow even with it being as efficient as it is right now. 359 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:51,680 You can't just RIP out the tongues like CJ does, no. 360 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:56,040 Does he do that? Yeah, I think he he in one 361 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,000 iteration of the Hyperion elite, like he would run Boston without 362 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:03,400 like the tongues of his shoes. And yeah, so he had his own 363 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,880 little sort of like mini alterations to the Hyperions. 364 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:10,920 But yeah, you'd have to look and see or ask him just to see, like 365 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,320 how he's been able to cut weight off the shoes. 366 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,840 Here or there, but. I think it was Sinclair Johnson 367 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,760 on the Ally on the Run show talked about how she didn't 368 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:26,560 really test the Hoka shoes all too much before she made the 369 00:20:26,560 --> 00:20:30,440 switch because I think she had signed by the time for like 370 00:20:30,440 --> 00:20:33,000 January to roll around. And so it's like kind of right 371 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,960 into it. So she left Craig Nowak, her 372 00:20:35,960 --> 00:20:39,480 fiance, to do a lot of the testing of the product for her 373 00:20:40,240 --> 00:20:43,520 with you, I guess. Contract ends with Asic's end of 374 00:20:43,800 --> 00:20:47,080 2025. Now we're speaking in March. 375 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:50,840 So for these last couple months, have you been able to be a 376 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,600 little bit more of a free agent and test a variety of different 377 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,640 brands before you ultimately started to learn more towards 378 00:20:57,640 --> 00:20:58,960 like? All right, I'm going to put some 379 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:02,400 more time into Brooks. Yeah, it is a little bit tricky 380 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:07,840 like because you know, I was going through this injury and 381 00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,920 and so testing was a little bit tricky through at least January, 382 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:17,280 but it was interesting as well like because I am such AI don't 383 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:22,800 know an open athlete and you know, the docu series and other 384 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:24,720 things. And we have so much media that's 385 00:21:24,760 --> 00:21:28,920 either shooting Kenneth or Connor or the Run Elite program. 386 00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,840 Casey, let me tell you, I I watched the latest run Elite 387 00:21:31,840 --> 00:21:35,600 program reel and you were wearing all black head to toe 388 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,760 and. I was like, I was like, 389 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,040 something's up here. Yeah, yeah. 390 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:42,160 I've had to kind of fly a little bit Incognito. 391 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,520 Like there's been days where I've had to wear full on ASICS 392 00:21:45,280 --> 00:21:47,240 simply to keep the story under wraps. 393 00:21:47,240 --> 00:21:50,160 And, you know, those have been open conversations that I've had 394 00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,800 with Brooks simply because it's like, yeah, we want, we wanted 395 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,960 this announcement to be big and we wanted it to be a surprise. 396 00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:59,160 And so they've been really supportive of that. 397 00:21:59,880 --> 00:22:02,400 So like through the week, like Monday through Friday, I'm able, 398 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,680 like those that are close to me, those that are in my circle, of 399 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:08,800 course they've they know about this negotiation and and, you 400 00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,600 know, we've been able to keep it tight there. 401 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:13,040 But like, yeah, what was showing up to the Saturday long runs 402 00:22:13,040 --> 00:22:16,360 where there's, you know, anywhere from 50, I don't know, 403 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,760 30 to 50 people? It's like, OK, I can't, I can't 404 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:24,080 keep everybody on. That person's likely posting 405 00:22:24,080 --> 00:22:25,480 anonymously on. Let's run. 406 00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:27,360 If I'm showing up in something else, yeah. 407 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,320 So I've had to kind of be a little bit selective sometimes 408 00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:34,760 on what I wear. But yeah, it's, it's been fun to 409 00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,120 get to test the whole Brooks lineup and like find my 410 00:22:38,120 --> 00:22:41,120 favorites and find what I love. And, and also be able to find 411 00:22:41,120 --> 00:22:43,760 things where it's like, oh man, I'm so excited to give feedback 412 00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:46,560 on this shoe to the Brooks team that I know is going to listen 413 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,400 and make changes for, for from all the knowledge that I've 414 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:52,680 gained as a pro over the years and what I love, what I don't 415 00:22:52,680 --> 00:22:55,960 love. And yeah, it's, it's been, it's 416 00:22:55,960 --> 00:23:00,000 been difficult, I'm not going to lie, kind of playing this havesy 417 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:02,960 game. But yeah, it's been fun, like I 418 00:23:02,960 --> 00:23:05,520 said, to get to know people, get to know relationships and and to 419 00:23:05,520 --> 00:23:09,760 test new stuff. Closing the chapter on ASICS. 420 00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:16,400 So seven years making your first Olympic team, what really stands 421 00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:18,480 out to you is just sort of like one of the highlights of the 422 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,200 time with the brand because. And like, what do you, what do 423 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,680 you think you'll miss the most? Because I even just sort of 424 00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:28,840 think to like, yeah, sure, you popped off in 20/22/23 and then 425 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,520 of course, 2425. But really, I mean, they stood 426 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,320 with you in the throes of injury. 427 00:23:35,440 --> 00:23:39,840 And I mean, there would be times probably where some of the 428 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:41,520 brands would probably be like, all right, we're just going to 429 00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:46,000 reduce or drop this guy. And you managed to really turn 430 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:49,440 it around to a point where you had a ton of value coming out of 431 00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:52,200 this contract. Yeah, it has been cool to like 432 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:55,120 see the journey that they've been with me and I'm all of, 433 00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,840 I'll forever be grateful for that. 434 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:02,360 You know, it is interesting that like contracts usually scale 435 00:24:02,360 --> 00:24:06,040 with performance. And so, you know, I do think I 436 00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:09,760 did provide the value that I was being paid when I wasn't 437 00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:11,280 performing and if that makes sense. 438 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:16,760 And I more than provided value to the contract on the years 439 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:19,000 that I was performing well, if that makes sense. 440 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:24,720 And but yeah, I think when I think about the best year with 441 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,080 ASICS, it was definitely 2024 making that first Olympic team, 442 00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:33,600 you know, and the support, you know, taking me to Paris to tour 443 00:24:33,600 --> 00:24:38,320 the the Olympic marathon course in April and to to get to know 444 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:40,080 the Paris. And, you know, that was my first 445 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,360 international trip ever in my life. 446 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:45,520 And so getting to know Paris early on. 447 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,320 So that way, when I went there for the Olympic Games, it could 448 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,960 be all business and I could know the course, you know, that 449 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,480 support was, was really special. And, and then I guess more than 450 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,520 anything, I think the thing that will probably stand out the most 451 00:24:57,520 --> 00:25:01,320 is just the relationships that I built with the the ASICS, you 452 00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:06,480 know, people, you know, I think of Kodama and Tsubaki and I 453 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:11,040 think of Ben and I think of Kat and Karen and Mac and Brian and, 454 00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:16,000 you know, I, I really pride myself in my ability, not pride. 455 00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:18,680 I don't know, like I feel like I really took the effort to get to 456 00:25:18,680 --> 00:25:24,280 know the brand that was behind me and and that's going to be 457 00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:28,160 the hardest to leave for sure. And also probably the fellow 458 00:25:28,160 --> 00:25:31,920 ASICS athletes that I have. You know, I obviously I'm going 459 00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:34,000 to see those athletes probably for the rest of my career and 460 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,120 things. But like I think of even though 461 00:25:36,120 --> 00:25:40,360 the athletes that are near to me like McKenna Meiler and of 462 00:25:40,360 --> 00:25:43,800 course I'll continue to see her, but you know, there's something 463 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,680 special about wearing the same kit on on the start line or or 464 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:49,040 even someone like John career. Like I got to know John career 465 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,520 really, really well over the last couple years from when he 466 00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:55,080 first, you know, was that Falmouth all the way until he 467 00:25:55,080 --> 00:26:00,800 won Boston and and Chicago. And like I hope we can continue 468 00:26:00,800 --> 00:26:03,960 to have those relationships because that's, that's really I 469 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,120 think what I valued most in in these brands. 470 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,640 Plus you got a whole another deep roster of really talented 471 00:26:11,640 --> 00:26:13,960 folks to get to know and call teammates. 472 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:16,960 Yeah, I will say I'm I'm really excited to work with with Creed 473 00:26:16,960 --> 00:26:19,880 Thompson and Casey Clinger, like those guys that are obviously in 474 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,240 my training group and then and then get to know the rest like 475 00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:25,120 like CJ Albertson and Jess McClain and the Holbrooks Beast 476 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:26,840 team. And yeah, there's some great 477 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,440 people that are part Brooks. So coming out of this contract, 478 00:26:31,120 --> 00:26:34,360 you are 32 years old. I'm not calling you old because 479 00:26:34,360 --> 00:26:35,760 you're only two weeks older than me. 480 00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:39,200 You made one Olympic team. Next go around is now 2 years 481 00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,680 away. Where did you see sort of and 482 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:46,360 assess the value of Clayton Young, the athlete that you were 483 00:26:46,360 --> 00:26:51,280 shopping around and what was important to structure this 484 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,400 contract because presumably it could be the last one of your 485 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:56,440 career? Yeah, I, I always like to 486 00:26:56,440 --> 00:26:59,200 imagine, you know, Connor Manson, I have this dream all 487 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,040 the time. And we're like, OK, Brisbane, 488 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,000 like Brisbane, Brisbane versus. And, and in fact, man thinks one 489 00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:06,920 further 1 Olympic cycle further. But he's like, we're going to, 490 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:08,800 we're going to Brisbane, Australia, like. 491 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,880 And I think that mentality is super important as an athlete. 492 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,320 Like I look at the the Sarah Halls of the world, right, You 493 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,160 know, or the Elliot Kipchoge's of the world. 494 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:23,800 Like you got to have that mentality starting now in order 495 00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:27,760 to go the distance. But yeah, of course I'm going to 496 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:29,800 be fighting age. So yeah. 497 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:31,000 What does that mean for this contract? 498 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:36,200 Well, this is the most important contract of my career by far. 499 00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,560 And so there was an extra weight about getting these next three 500 00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:42,880 or four years, right, because there's no guarantee of the 501 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,000 future. It was really cool, though, to 502 00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,640 be able to approach every brand that I approach. 503 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:53,840 You know, what was really neat is even brands that weren't 504 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:57,880 necessarily in a position to support me as an athlete, we're 505 00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,200 still willing to like get on the phone or get on a call and just 506 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,800 talk to me because of the credentials that I have as an 507 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,560 athlete, as an Olympian, as, you know, top ten in the world World 508 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:08,720 Championships. And that was really special. 509 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:12,200 And, you know, it was it was really cool to get, you know, 510 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:14,880 like I said, to build these relationships that I know will 511 00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,800 happen in the future. But yeah, this contract was was 512 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:21,000 really important to get right, because I think it really hinges 513 00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:23,720 on whether I make, you know, it's it's cool to be an 514 00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:26,920 Olympian, but you know, coach Eiston was a two time Olympian 515 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:32,520 and he set the bar. And so multi multi Olympian is I 516 00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:36,920 think has always been the goal. And that is like the dream of 517 00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,000 mine, right, And to perform better than we did. 518 00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:44,720 And you know, Con and I had big goals for LA and yeah, it, it, 519 00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,920 it was, it was also really neat to see like people obviously 520 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,520 value me for my performance. And that's the thing that I have 521 00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,800 going for me the most, my consistency, my performance. 522 00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:57,120 But like I said, everything else that I've been able to build 523 00:28:57,120 --> 00:29:02,960 from a brand standpoint and see how how that, you know, some 524 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:04,840 brands recognize that and some brands don't. 525 00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:08,080 And it's, it's sometimes shocking to see when people 526 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,320 don't. But I understand as well, like 527 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,480 some, some brands just want you for your performance and some 528 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:18,760 want you for more than that. Yeah, your YouTube subscribers 529 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,400 will probably want to know, without getting into too many 530 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,960 sort of specifics, but was sort of highlighting the content 531 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:28,280 creator side of Clayton, something within the Brooks 532 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:31,280 contract that you were just like, yeah, no, I would love to 533 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,920 have that support because now everyone's become accustomed to 534 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:39,280 the Clayton Young build up, the build series into these 535 00:29:39,480 --> 00:29:43,040 marathons that you're running. And sometimes in the past, 536 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,560 you've had to go and scramble to, hey, who are we going to get 537 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:48,160 on the hook for this New York series? 538 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,760 Who are we going to get for this Boston series? 539 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,640 And was it something in this process that you're like, hey, 540 00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:59,320 would love to have Brooks across multiple of these down the road 541 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:02,200 or just so you know these will continue to happen. 542 00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:05,000 So it was that something important for you? 543 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:08,880 Yeah, 100%. You know, I'll always be 544 00:30:08,880 --> 00:30:11,600 grateful for ASICS and supporting the first docu 545 00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:12,880 series. But you're right. 546 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,840 Like ever since then, you know, I, I've had to work with 547 00:30:16,840 --> 00:30:19,560 different sponsors and, and that's a lot of negotiation and 548 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:21,520 a lot of time. And in a way it's a good thing 549 00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:23,920 because it does validate my brand with being able to 550 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:25,880 continue to work with different sponsors. 551 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,880 But at the end of the day, sometimes it's nice just to like 552 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,960 have consistency and for me not to carry that load as much. 553 00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:38,840 And, you know, I, what was amazing about this process when 554 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:42,400 working with Brooks is like I said, I, you know, presented to 555 00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,440 them who Clayton Young was and they listened. 556 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:49,920 And, you know, I didn't even have to necessarily ask for it. 557 00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:52,280 It was something that they were interested in. 558 00:30:52,280 --> 00:30:55,920 And yeah, they will be part of the docu series to some degree 559 00:30:56,320 --> 00:30:59,040 moving forward. And, you know, there's still are 560 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,360 like checks and balances in that for sure, right? 561 00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,560 And I, you know, I still have to do proposals and things like 562 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,760 that to them. But it was something that they 563 00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,120 were very excited about and it is something that they saw value 564 00:31:09,120 --> 00:31:10,880 in. And and so hopefully that will, 565 00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:15,280 you know, help it so that the fans get more content and, you 566 00:31:15,280 --> 00:31:20,440 know, it can be more consistent and be something that can be 567 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:23,680 really, really great for both Brooks and highlighting what 568 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,240 they've done. But I'm really grateful for them 569 00:31:26,800 --> 00:31:30,280 and listening to that process. It's an athlete preference 570 00:31:30,280 --> 00:31:35,360 thing, whether they choose to go with an agent and or choose to 571 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,160 represent themselves. And you're one of the few I 572 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:43,280 think at at your level who has chosen to after a while 573 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:45,680 represent yourself. What was the biggest thing you 574 00:31:45,680 --> 00:31:49,720 learned about the industry or that like your eyes opened up 575 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:52,200 when it came to these contract negotiations? 576 00:31:52,880 --> 00:31:55,720 Yeah, I don't know if I completely understood what I was 577 00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:59,200 getting into and I decided to represent myself, but I I 578 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:01,200 wouldn't go back. I, I completely stand by my 579 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,280 decision and, and I'm really grateful, you know, ultimately 580 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:07,720 the reason I decided to represent myself, you know, 581 00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:10,560 it's, this is a, it's interesting to podcast about 582 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:12,400 relationships, but it's because I wanted to develop 583 00:32:12,400 --> 00:32:14,160 relationships with the brands that I was representing. 584 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:18,320 Like if I could understand, like I said, what they valued and, 585 00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:20,640 and they could understand what I valued it, it would just be a 586 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:25,080 win win, right? And ultimately, I found through 587 00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:29,440 the docu series actually, that the best way for a brand to 588 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,480 understand who I was was for me to paint the picture like no 589 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:37,560 one's, no one's going to hustle or care as much as you do, and 590 00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:40,640 no one's going to understand you as much as you do. 591 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:46,160 And so being able to like present, you know, the best 592 00:32:46,160 --> 00:32:50,040 picture in front of a brand and, and understand what they value 593 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:52,200 has been really, really rewarding. 594 00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:56,560 But yeah, it does. It definitely comes with highs 595 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:58,440 and lows and, and tough conversations. 596 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,520 And sometimes I have to be like, OK, you're talking to Clayton 597 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,840 the athlete and here you're talking to Clayton the agent. 598 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:05,680 And, you know, we joke about that. 599 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:09,320 But I've found that because I'm such an open and honest and 600 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:15,840 straightforward person in terms of how I communicate, Like as 601 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,120 soon as I can be open and honest, like the bands are like, 602 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:21,200 oh, OK, like we can, we could shoot back and, and be open and 603 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,120 honest with Clayton and he's not going to get offended by it. 604 00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:29,640 And like, ultimately that's when, yeah, synergy is born, 605 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:31,960 right? And teamwork and, and building a 606 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,160 brand. And I love that. 607 00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,680 But yeah, it's not for everyone, that's for sure. 608 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:41,840 And it's it comes with its like its highs and lows for sure. 609 00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:46,640 At any point in this process did Clayton the agent wear a suit to 610 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,160 any meeting? No suits. 611 00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:51,960 That's not a bad idea, though. Collared shirt at least. 612 00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,760 Yeah. You're like maybe a loose polo. 613 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:58,400 Yeah, yeah, a loose. Polo, maybe it it isn't like it 614 00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:01,560 they know me as the athlete. And so it's it is interesting 615 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,240 like, yeah, the athlete gets me in the door and then they get to 616 00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:06,800 understand who Clayton the businessman is. 617 00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:09,560 And yeah, there. I mean, there definitely were a 618 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,920 few times where I, like, I almost wanted to like, call an 619 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:14,920 audible and be like, hey, will you just please talk to, you 620 00:34:14,920 --> 00:34:17,840 know, Jared Ward, right? Like, he'll represent me today 621 00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:20,280 or something like that. Like, because there are tough 622 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:24,639 conversations. And yeah, there's, you know, big 623 00:34:24,639 --> 00:34:26,880 conversations with my wife, Ashley, as we went through this 624 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,000 decision. That's not easy. 625 00:34:30,639 --> 00:34:33,000 But yeah, maybe the suit would help next time. 626 00:34:33,719 --> 00:34:36,360 Who's on the Clayton? Young board of directors of 627 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:37,880 sorts. Yeah, the board of directors, 628 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:39,800 Garrett Heath has heard a lot about the Clayton Young board of 629 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:42,960 directors as I've gone through this decision making process. 630 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:47,040 But yeah, Ashley for sure is on the agent. 631 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,239 You should recall her agent Zero. 632 00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:51,679 Yeah, she's on the board of directors. 633 00:34:51,679 --> 00:34:57,760 And then Jared Ward is next, followed by Todd Garner, who's a 634 00:34:57,760 --> 00:34:59,960 good friend and and is actually now an agent as well. 635 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:04,720 He doesn't represent me, but we we talk all the time about, you 636 00:35:04,720 --> 00:35:09,040 know, negotiating and, and how to, you know, he helps me and I 637 00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:10,680 help him. And as we kind of sound bored. 638 00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:16,720 And then, of course, Coach Eistone and and Connor Manse, 639 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:18,920 like that's pretty much the board of directors. 640 00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:21,120 And occasionally I'll talk to my parents. 641 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:24,440 It can be tricky with, you know, there's, there's so much context 642 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,320 that goes into understanding these the, you know, this world 643 00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:31,920 of this small world of running that keeping up to them up to 644 00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:34,640 speed can be tough. But that's, that's the Clayton 645 00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:37,040 Young board of directors. And the Lord, I'll say that too, 646 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:39,600 Yeah. Would you go through this again? 647 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,440 I think you you, you've said it before. 648 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,480 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm not going to lie, it 649 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:49,040 was very difficult and it was surprising in some ways. 650 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,920 But yeah, I think it was the right choice. 651 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:56,760 And it's it's definitely, No, it's not. 652 00:35:57,520 --> 00:35:58,800 It's not. I think it's the right choice. 653 00:35:58,800 --> 00:36:02,000 It is the right choice. I needed to be very confident in 654 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:06,920 this decision and this idea of representing myself and, and 655 00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,840 representing Brooks. And yeah, I'm, I'm very 656 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,960 confident in this and I would do it again. 657 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:18,080 Like I think I needed to understand all these nuances of, 658 00:36:18,360 --> 00:36:23,080 of working with brands and, and even myself and to have, you 659 00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,400 know, there's something that's special knowing that, you know, 660 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,640 I've made a choice and I can have that confidence going into 661 00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,120 LA 2028. Like, it's like, this is what 662 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:32,680 I've chosen. This is what I'm going to do. 663 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,800 We have, I have a plan, Brooks has a plan. 664 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,040 We're going to execute this plan. 665 00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:42,200 And it's the best plan that I I know to get me to beyond the US 666 00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:45,840 Olympic team. This episode of the City Smack 667 00:36:45,840 --> 00:36:48,040 podcast is presented by X Endurance. 668 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,240 When you finish a hard workout, whether it's a long run or a 669 00:36:51,240 --> 00:36:55,120 workout on the track or a big lift session, the work isn't 670 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:56,520 actually done. We all know this. 671 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,760 That's when recovery starts. It can get expensive to 672 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:04,360 constantly pop into a smoothie shop after a run, so one of the 673 00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:07,720 things that I've been doing lately is using X Endurance 674 00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,240 protein, which is designed specific specifically to help 675 00:37:10,240 --> 00:37:13,920 your body recover, rebuild, and get stronger after training. 676 00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:17,560 I'm super excited to welcome Ex Endurance into Cydia Smack's 677 00:37:17,560 --> 00:37:20,880 family of sponsors since I've watched them support many 678 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:22,720 professional athletes over the last decade. 679 00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,080 Mac back in the day was an EX Endurance athlete. 680 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:29,120 Lately you may have seen Jess McClain using their product as 681 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:31,480 she builds up to the Boston Marathon. 682 00:37:31,720 --> 00:37:35,040 What makes their protein a little different is their blend. 683 00:37:35,160 --> 00:37:38,200 It combines 4 different types of protein so your body gets both 684 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:42,000 fast absorbing protein for immediate recovery and slower 685 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:45,040 release protein to support muscle repair over time. 686 00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:49,400 Each serving delivers 20 grams of protein and over 4 grams of 687 00:37:49,400 --> 00:37:53,680 Bcaas, which help support muscle growth and recovery after long 688 00:37:53,680 --> 00:37:56,240 sessions. It also includes electrolytes 689 00:37:56,280 --> 00:38:00,760 and vitamins B6B12 and D to support your overall recovery. 690 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,680 And one thing that I've appreciated is that it's easy on 691 00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,680 the stomach. No bloating or digestion issues 692 00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,360 like you sometimes get with other whey proteins. 693 00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:13,640 You just mix 1 scoop with about four to 6 ounces of liquid and 694 00:38:13,640 --> 00:38:16,880 it's great before a workout, after a workout, or really 695 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:19,800 anytime during the day when you want to support your recovery. 696 00:38:20,240 --> 00:38:24,040 Now if you want to go crazy, here's my go to mix which is the 697 00:38:24,040 --> 00:38:27,280 chocolate protein, half a banana, a scoop of peanut 698 00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,120 butter, ice and some almond milk. 699 00:38:29,160 --> 00:38:32,960 Mix it all together, delicious. If you're putting in the work 700 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,840 and training X Endurance protein can help your body bounce back 701 00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:37,960 and get you ready for that next big session. 702 00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:41,640 Sidious Mag podcast listeners, you can get 25% off your order 703 00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,560 using code SIDIOUS at checkout when you visit xendurance.com. 704 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,600 They have loads of other products and I'm working my way 705 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:51,800 through a few other dietary supplements, so stay tuned on 706 00:38:51,800 --> 00:38:53,360 more of those in the coming weeks. 707 00:38:53,640 --> 00:38:56,280 Check it all out at xendurance.com. 708 00:38:56,680 --> 00:39:00,200 Code Sidious for 25% off your first order. 709 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:05,320 I feel like every pro athlete dreams of like I'm going to wear 710 00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:09,200 1U the rest of my career from the from the moment I turn pro, 711 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,120 and I'm going to be with one coach, one training group the 712 00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,600 whole entire time. And that's my key to success. 713 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,360 It's like only Derek Jeter and the New York Yankees gets to 714 00:39:19,360 --> 00:39:24,000 experience something like that. But it can also be the flip side 715 00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:28,200 of things, a total refresh of of like, hey, this is going to be 716 00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:31,200 the first time I'm racing in a Brooks kid that's going to 717 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:35,240 probably feel exhilarating to you or the first, you know, big 718 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,600 long run that you're going to crush in the Hyperion Elite 6 or 719 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,640 a future prototype. And I feel like that kind of, 720 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,240 you know, keeps things fresh and new, whereas like, it could have 721 00:39:47,240 --> 00:39:50,240 just always been like, well, all right, this is going to be my 722 00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:55,080 20th build rotating through the same, you know, iteration of, 723 00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:58,120 of, of shoes. But yeah, know that you've got 724 00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:02,240 plenty to be excited about. So where are we at in terms of 725 00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:05,680 Boston training? Oh man, yeah, Boston. 726 00:40:05,840 --> 00:40:08,280 I'm, I'm excited for Boston. This is, it's going to be a 727 00:40:08,280 --> 00:40:09,640 little bit of a unique experience. 728 00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:12,400 I mean, if you've, if you followed me in my journey, like 729 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:17,440 usually a marathon build is 1620 weeks, you know, long build, fit 730 00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:19,880 fitness comes, but I've got time. 731 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:22,880 But this is a very unique experience, right? 732 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:28,040 I, I got injured in October. I was injured for 18 weeks and I 733 00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,240 went through 6 to 8 injury cycles and that left only like 734 00:40:32,240 --> 00:40:40,120 910 weeks to build to Boston. And, you know, that's insane to 735 00:40:40,120 --> 00:40:44,440 think to go from like almost little to nothing for 18 weeks. 736 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,200 And then just to, to try to send it for Boston. 737 00:40:47,200 --> 00:40:50,720 And, and, and so I'm trying to approach it with a very curious 738 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:54,280 mentality. And it's been amazing to see how 739 00:40:54,280 --> 00:40:57,680 my body's responded. You know, it has been quick. 740 00:40:57,680 --> 00:41:01,240 Like, I think I went from like 50 miles to 80 miles to 90 miles 741 00:41:01,240 --> 00:41:06,880 to 100 miles to 110 to last week I hit 128 And, you know, we got 742 00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:12,280 six weeks to go. And I'm, I'm, it's, it's really 743 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:15,920 fascinating too, from like a mentality standpoint, knowing 744 00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,120 that, well, we're six weeks out and usually in a marathon build, 745 00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,960 this is when everything would be like humming. 746 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:23,080 And I feel like I could just destroy workouts. 747 00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:27,720 And I feel invincible and like I'm feeling confident. 748 00:41:27,720 --> 00:41:30,360 And I'm, and I'm committed in the sense that I'm like doing 749 00:41:30,360 --> 00:41:33,320 all the little things. Well, right now, like I'm doing 750 00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:35,680 all the little things. I'm, I'm more committed than 751 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:37,360 ever. It seems like I'm doing more 752 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:40,400 than a little things because I know I have to, You have to be 753 00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:42,160 carefully healed, but try to make up ground. 754 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,200 And then I'll get into a workout and I'll be like, Oh yeah, like 755 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,000 I'm not fit yet. Like this is really hard. 756 00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:54,280 And so like the mind is is not always In Sync with the body. 757 00:41:55,160 --> 00:41:59,320 I'm still, you know, it's still trying to respond to all this 758 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,360 high mileage and getting back to running and, and getting fit 759 00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:05,640 again. But I think it's been really 760 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,400 satisfying to see the fitness come right. 761 00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:12,000 It's it's like a, it's like by the mile, by the hour, by the 762 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,240 minute. It seems like my body's a 763 00:42:13,240 --> 00:42:16,640 tapping, which is really, really satisfying after 18 weeks of 764 00:42:16,640 --> 00:42:22,360 just depression and nothing. Yeah, you wrote on Instagram. 765 00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:27,400 February 21st. 109 days injured, 7 doctors, 56 treadmill 766 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,440 sessions, 23 test runs, 60 cross training sessions, millions of 767 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:35,160 data points, countless prayers. And then you finally broke 100 768 00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:38,600 miles that particular week for the first time in 18 weeks. 769 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:41,960 And then you're like, does that mean I'm no longer injured? 770 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:47,640 So at this point, I guess like when, when did you start to turn 771 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,440 the corner? You would say, was it that? 772 00:42:50,080 --> 00:42:52,040 In the lead up to that. Yeah, it was. 773 00:42:52,680 --> 00:42:57,640 And I guess like let's refresh the folks like the injury was, I 774 00:42:57,640 --> 00:43:00,840 have it right here because you specified what it was. 775 00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:04,760 It was. It was posterior tibia, tennos, 776 00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:11,680 stenosis and arthritis. Yeah, it's essentially what I've 777 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:13,960 since learned. And that was probably, I don't 778 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,360 know when that that was maybe like halfway through this injury 779 00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:17,840 cycle. And I've learned more since 780 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:22,120 then. Yeah, the simple version is 781 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:26,000 ankle pain. And this all stems from rolling 782 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,080 your ankle in that one workout. It goes back a ways. 783 00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:33,000 So you could say in 2017 is when I first started kind of 784 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:36,440 experiencing this foot pain and you know, I'd, I'd kind of 785 00:43:36,440 --> 00:43:38,760 always manage it, deal with it, whatever. 786 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:39,960 Didn't really think anything of it. 787 00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:43,360 We think that at the world, not at the World Championships. 788 00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:45,800 But four weeks before the World Championships, I rolled my ankle 789 00:43:46,480 --> 00:43:51,960 really, really bad and on both sides and luckily was able to 790 00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:56,080 get healthy and rehab and, and compete at World Championships. 791 00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,320 But then as I started building for Valencia, you know what the 792 00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:02,480 goal was always, you know, I would run the World 793 00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,680 Championships, Connor would set the American record in Chicago, 794 00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:06,960 and then I would set it in in Valencia. 795 00:44:06,960 --> 00:44:11,400 That was that was the plan. In October, I, yeah, finished a 796 00:44:11,400 --> 00:44:15,560 workout and I was prototyping some shoes and they just, I 797 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,840 finished on and went on the cooldown and like, my ankle is 798 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:21,640 just mad. Like the, the support wasn't 799 00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,320 quite there. And probably from this, you 800 00:44:24,320 --> 00:44:29,320 know, 2017 years going on. And, and so ultimately this 801 00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:32,160 arthritis is between my Taylor navicular joint. 802 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:35,200 And so that Taylor navicular joint would just swell up like 803 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:37,480 crazy. And I think then what would 804 00:44:37,480 --> 00:44:40,280 happen is I would start to compensate with my posterior 805 00:44:40,280 --> 00:44:44,240 tibia tendon. And that's where the that would 806 00:44:44,240 --> 00:44:46,880 flare up as well. And so it was all manifesting on 807 00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:50,920 this posterior tibia tendon. But really the problem was the 808 00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:53,880 Taylor navicular joint and this arthritis within it and, and, 809 00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:57,680 and these holes essentially in that joint. 810 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:00,280 So yeah, we saw a lot of doctors. 811 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,200 We did a lot of things. I flew out to California, I flew 812 00:45:03,200 --> 00:45:05,640 out to Colorado, did everything you could think. 813 00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:07,760 Of how close were you just surgery? 814 00:45:08,000 --> 00:45:14,000 I finally started talking with the USOPC Dr. and he's like, he 815 00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,560 brought up a picture of my my ankle and MRI picture. 816 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,800 And he's like, he's like, look at this right here. 817 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,760 Look at this spot. And I think we'll put it in the 818 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:25,320 docu series if you want to see the picture. 819 00:45:25,320 --> 00:45:28,480 But he's like this spot right here is your problem. 820 00:45:28,560 --> 00:45:30,760 And it's really mad and it's been there for a long time. 821 00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,240 And yeah, it's not going away. And you're going to have this 822 00:45:35,240 --> 00:45:38,760 the rest of your life. And he's just like, really frank 823 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:42,360 with me. He's like, and, you know, it 824 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,520 seems like you've been doing everything you've supposed to be 825 00:45:44,520 --> 00:45:47,680 doing the last 12 weeks, 12 to 16 weeks. 826 00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:50,960 And so he's like, you know, at this point, I think you should 827 00:45:50,960 --> 00:45:55,920 talk to the surgeon at at the Stedman clinic. 828 00:45:56,240 --> 00:45:58,600 And when he said Stedman clinic, I kind of my eyes kind of got 829 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,080 wide because I knew that Kira d'amato just went to the Stedman 830 00:46:01,080 --> 00:46:02,760 clinic and. She's on crutches now and you're 831 00:46:02,760 --> 00:46:05,400 like, I don't want that. And I'm like, oh, gosh, like I 832 00:46:05,400 --> 00:46:08,080 love that this is maybe the best place to go. 833 00:46:08,080 --> 00:46:09,760 But also I'm like, I know this is a big deal. 834 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:11,640 And he. And so he's like, let me put you 835 00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,920 in touch with, you know, this surgeon. 836 00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:18,760 And I was like, OK, And I'm like, Dang, like this might be 837 00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,320 it. Like, and I'm in the middle of 838 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:24,440 contract negotiations and I'm like, gosh, this is not good. 839 00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:30,360 And so eventually I, from this picture that he showed me, it 840 00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:33,040 was really fascinating. I, you know, we've been playing 841 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:36,240 with insoles, we've been playing with wedges tilt with my 842 00:46:36,240 --> 00:46:40,120 pronation and things like that. And I honestly had this like 843 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:44,600 moment of inspiration. And you know, I'm a God fearing 844 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:46,800 man that believes in revelation, but it was honestly this moment 845 00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,640 in my mind where it's like, well, what if I move this wedge 846 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,080 from this part of my foot to this part of my foot? 847 00:46:53,080 --> 00:46:55,280 So that way it would open up the tail and navicular joint. 848 00:46:55,280 --> 00:46:59,080 Those two bones wouldn't hit and maybe that would, you know, 849 00:46:59,440 --> 00:47:05,520 provide some relief. And so I move this wedge and I 850 00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,040 hop on the treadmill. You know, I've been doing a lot 851 00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,240 of treadmill runs because that's I can stop anytime and I run 10 852 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:14,760 miles straight, no pain. And I'm like, what the I'm like, 853 00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:16,600 shocked. I'm like, what the what just 854 00:47:16,600 --> 00:47:18,320 happened? I'm like, this is you got to be 855 00:47:18,320 --> 00:47:20,640 kidding me. Like moving this dumb little 856 00:47:20,640 --> 00:47:23,080 wedge in my insole is going to solve this problem. 857 00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:24,800 And I didn't get too excited too soon. 858 00:47:25,760 --> 00:47:28,440 Two days later, hop on the treadmill, 10 more miles, no 859 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:29,680 pain. I'm like, you got to be kidding 860 00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:30,800 me. I get on the phone with the 861 00:47:30,800 --> 00:47:33,760 surgeon because I have this scheduled call and he's like, 862 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:35,120 hey, so I hear you might want to get surgery. 863 00:47:35,120 --> 00:47:40,800 I'm like, well, you know, I just barely may have figured this 864 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:43,000 out. And he's like, he's like, well, 865 00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:44,160 tell me about it. So I tell him about it. 866 00:47:44,160 --> 00:47:47,040 And he's like, well, look, if you get surgery, you know, it's 867 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:50,240 five months at least before your back running. 868 00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:55,160 And so he's like, if this is working, like by all means, like 869 00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,600 you've, you figure this out, like you go down this path as 870 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:00,640 far as you can. And then you give me a call 871 00:48:00,640 --> 00:48:02,640 back. And I was like, OK. 872 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:06,240 And you know, I hung up the phone and, and I haven't called 873 00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:09,840 him back since. And it's like it was and, and 874 00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:13,120 from there we went, like I said, 50 miles, 80 miles, 9000. 875 00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,480 And, you know, now I'm running and it's been amazing. 876 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,600 Like I there are some very specific exercises that I still 877 00:48:20,600 --> 00:48:24,200 do with an access board and I still have that wedge in my 878 00:48:24,200 --> 00:48:32,720 shoe, but like my ankles 9095% And it's been amazing. 879 00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,000 Yeah. Just so grateful. 880 00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:37,720 Way better than five months. And yeah, yeah, I mean, it means 881 00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:41,040 that my bill to Boston is super short, but man, I'm hungry. 882 00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:44,800 And I was joking with Coach Iston the other day, like, if I 883 00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:48,440 pull this off and I, you know, even performed relatively well 884 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:53,440 to last year or where I should be like or what? 885 00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:54,760 Let's say I knock it out of the park. 886 00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,200 All right, let's say I get on the podium. 887 00:48:56,200 --> 00:48:57,040 I don't know. Whatever. 888 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:00,240 Does that mean that our builds from now on are only 8 to 10 889 00:49:00,240 --> 00:49:03,480 weeks? I'm a very merit based person, 890 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:04,840 so I don't know if that would ever happen. 891 00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:08,120 But yeah, it's just it's kind of an exciting to be curious and 892 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,120 see what happens. What a roll of the dice to just, 893 00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:16,920 you know, I guess like kudos and props to you for like just 894 00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:20,600 testing out this wedge that all of a sudden, you know, has 895 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,440 changed things. Is there a way to track the 896 00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:26,440 extent of the injury, whether it's making any sort of healing 897 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,200 progress, or is it because you've said it's been around 898 00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:35,200 since 2017, like you're going to live with this, but is there a 899 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,800 way to track that it it's not getting worse, but only like 900 00:49:38,800 --> 00:49:41,400 healing to an extent? That's a great question. 901 00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:44,960 I, you know, I haven't, we haven't done any imaging, more 902 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:46,360 imaging. And so it would be interesting, 903 00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:51,000 like I did get a PRP shot two or three weeks before this phone 904 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:53,400 call. And it would be interesting to 905 00:49:53,400 --> 00:49:55,800 see some of the healing maybe from that PRP shot and some 906 00:49:56,000 --> 00:50:01,520 really intense shockwave. Stupid expensive, but I think 907 00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:03,400 that may have contributed to some of the healing as well. 908 00:50:03,400 --> 00:50:07,840 But but yeah, the other thing that we've been really using as 909 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:12,120 well is, is, is stride. Like luckily I've been wearing 910 00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:15,520 the stride pods since before the Olympic Games. 911 00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,640 And so I have this really, really strong baseline of what 912 00:50:18,640 --> 00:50:21,000 my bio mechanics are like and what my fitness is like. 913 00:50:21,760 --> 00:50:26,000 And so now we're able to compare data like pre injury and post 914 00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:29,160 injury and and that's been really cool to follow. 915 00:50:29,240 --> 00:50:31,760 You know, I, I always looked at stride from like a performance 916 00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:34,960 and a race performance standpoint of what it could do 917 00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:37,000 to elevate, you know, me as an athlete. 918 00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:40,080 But now it's it's kind of coming in clutch with this whole injury 919 00:50:40,080 --> 00:50:42,720 side of things. And, and we're continuing to 920 00:50:42,720 --> 00:50:46,120 divide dive into that data. I mean, there's so much data 921 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:48,760 that goes into that. And luckily that's what I love 922 00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:52,520 on the nerd, right. And but like simple things like 923 00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:57,400 the left right balance and the ground contact time between my 924 00:50:57,400 --> 00:51:00,560 left foot and my right foot and how that was pre essentially pre 925 00:51:00,560 --> 00:51:03,400 injury and currently and how it's trending back to, you know, 926 00:51:03,400 --> 00:51:07,160 my pre Olympic days and the preble champ is my hamstring. 927 00:51:07,160 --> 00:51:10,600 And that's what's been really interesting too, is like because 928 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:13,440 I took 18 weeks off, like a lot of these other injuries that 929 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:18,680 were maybe little niggles. I've have not been a problem, 930 00:51:18,680 --> 00:51:21,480 right. So maybe gave my body the reset 931 00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,680 and the rest it needed, especially as we start to kind 932 00:51:24,680 --> 00:51:28,160 of grind now and in through the Olympic cycle to the Olympic 933 00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:30,280 Games. So to go back a couple months 934 00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,360 to, you know, the original plan being like we're going to go to 935 00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:36,560 Valencia, we're going to break the American record. 936 00:51:36,920 --> 00:51:42,360 So where did you sort of land and feel after seeing two O 443 937 00:51:42,440 --> 00:51:46,320 like by Connor? That's, that's the mark now. 938 00:51:46,760 --> 00:51:54,200 And your PV scrolling back over to last year's Boston results is 939 00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:58,080 2O7-O four. So it's still a chunk of time. 940 00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:02,800 But the sense of belief, I guess you drew that from workouts and 941 00:52:03,080 --> 00:52:06,000 progress in the fall before disaster struck. 942 00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,320 If Connor can do it, why not me, right? 943 00:52:08,400 --> 00:52:12,640 It's like, and there's also like, yeah, don't get me wrong, 944 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:14,880 two O 4 is fast. And I remember when he broke it, 945 00:52:14,880 --> 00:52:18,680 I was like, that's like, you know, this is going to be a tall 946 00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:20,760 ask. But it was still like it was 947 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,440 still tangible. It was like, that's still in the 948 00:52:23,440 --> 00:52:26,280 realm. Like if he was low 2O four or 949 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,960 two O 3, I maybe would have been like, OK, like maybe time to re 950 00:52:29,960 --> 00:52:33,840 evaluate, maybe just run fast influencing B, you know, second 951 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:36,240 best American. But it was it was it was enough, 952 00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:37,720 but it wasn't too much to where I was. 953 00:52:37,720 --> 00:52:42,640 Like, this is not impossible. And so I think it will take some 954 00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:45,240 time for me to get my confidence back to take another crack at 955 00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:49,040 the American record. You know, like I said, I'm I'm 956 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,720 only, you know, 4 weeks deep in five weeks deep. 957 00:52:52,520 --> 00:52:55,080 And it's coming and it's coming quick, but it will take some 958 00:52:55,080 --> 00:52:55,960 time. Yeah. 959 00:52:55,960 --> 00:52:59,240 So I don't know when that'll be. Like, I think people are asking 960 00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:02,760 me to go after it this fall. And but there's also this whole 961 00:53:02,760 --> 00:53:05,440 timing of the Olympic cycle too. All right, Like, so when is the 962 00:53:05,440 --> 00:53:06,840 Olympic standard going to come out? 963 00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:09,440 It's probably going to be somewhere around two O 630. 964 00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:12,520 We want to unlock spots if it's the same models last year, and 965 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,920 that was a nightmare, not last year, last Olympic cycle. 966 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:20,840 And so you know, picking and choosing when you run fast with 967 00:53:21,120 --> 00:53:22,880 this timing can be kind of tricky. 968 00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:28,400 What have you made of the next wave of American marathoners? 969 00:53:28,400 --> 00:53:30,400 Right. Like in training, you got to 970 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:36,080 see, you know, Casey Clinger making all this progress kind of 971 00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:38,600 like all right, let's brush off the first first go around. 972 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,800 This was like the debut. I think that people expected 973 00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:43,680 when they thought, oh, he's going to take to to the 974 00:53:43,680 --> 00:53:47,480 marathon. He rents 2O843IN Tokyo, But even 975 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:52,040 before that, Ethan Shuley, like your former teammate out of 976 00:53:52,040 --> 00:53:57,080 nowhere going out and running two O 714 also in Japan. 977 00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:01,800 He's just behind you, I guess on the all time list if we're 978 00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,120 counting all the courses. And it just kind of goes to show 979 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,920 that the tide turned so quick in the marathon. 980 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,960 Totally. There's nothing worse than, 981 00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:14,960 like, being injured and not being able to train and like 982 00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:19,000 seeing these results and seeing the next generation and being 983 00:54:19,000 --> 00:54:22,760 like, oh, man, like, yeah, because. 984 00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,920 You being the marathoner that you've been the last two years, 985 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,520 like you got a target on your back. 986 00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:31,360 Yes, yeah, yeah, Eric Jenkins, like do I have a shot like? 987 00:54:31,840 --> 00:54:32,960 Now you always. Do. 988 00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:37,080 Yeah, I totally have a target and that's exciting. 989 00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:40,480 Like it is kind of cool to be labeled as such. 990 00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:43,200 But yeah, the next generation is coming and you know, they're 991 00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,440 learning and learning quick and and I think there's just so much 992 00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:50,600 more knowledge out there that you know that Connor and I have 993 00:54:50,600 --> 00:54:53,680 even shared, right. And so they're, they're learning 994 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,320 from us and they're learning from the best around the world 995 00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,400 because there is so much knowledge. 996 00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:03,800 And I think ultimately, like, you know, there, there's going 997 00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,200 to be, I'm going to have to mentally approach it the right 998 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:07,480 way. Like there's got to be an 999 00:55:07,480 --> 00:55:09,760 abundant mentality. Like they can run fast and I can 1000 00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,760 run fast too. But in championship style racing 1001 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:13,800 at the Olympic trials, like bring it on, like I'm going to, 1002 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,440 I'm going to be in my element. Like that's what I do. 1003 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:20,480 And it's not all about times and about running fast. 1004 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:22,280 It's about being the top three on the day. 1005 00:55:22,280 --> 00:55:24,920 And I'm like, that's the kind of mentality that I need to start 1006 00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:27,440 working on now so that way I can clutch up and do what I need to 1007 00:55:27,440 --> 00:55:30,080 do and, and ultimately do what I need to do in LA. 1008 00:55:30,080 --> 00:55:33,000 And, and don't get me wrong, I'm super excited. 1009 00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:36,400 Like no one was more excited for Casey Clinger than me. 1010 00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,680 Like, especially knowing that he was going to be my Brooks 1011 00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:41,120 teammate, but I've been friends and teammates with him since 1012 00:55:41,120 --> 00:55:43,760 American fork, right? We built the, we built American 1013 00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:47,240 Fork, we built BYU, we, we built this last chapter and now we're 1014 00:55:47,240 --> 00:55:49,920 building this Brooks chapter. And it's like, I'm really 1015 00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:52,040 excited for that. And, and of course Ethan, like 1016 00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:54,480 I've, I've known him for a long time and I'm really good friends 1017 00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:57,440 with his family. And like, I, I still remember 1018 00:55:57,440 --> 00:56:00,320 the day when, when his dad reached out to me and he's like, 1019 00:56:00,320 --> 00:56:02,720 how fast would Ethan need to run to get a contract? 1020 00:56:03,400 --> 00:56:06,240 And he's like, would 210 do it? And I was like, oh man, 210's 1021 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:07,880 tight. Like, I don't, I don't know if 1022 00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:10,680 that's going to cut it. And so to see Ethan like chip 1023 00:56:10,680 --> 00:56:14,920 away, chip away, chip away and to finally do it and his dad 1024 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:17,840 just be so excited and so proud. Like that brings me a lot of 1025 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,160 joy. And I think I've, I'm starting 1026 00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:22,680 to kind of adopt this mentality that Jared Ward has. 1027 00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:27,840 Like, I think something that was really special was at the in the 1028 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:32,200 build to the Olympic trials and at the Olympic trialed trials, I 1029 00:56:32,200 --> 00:56:37,520 think no one was more proud and more excited for Con and I than 1030 00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,920 Jared. Yeah. 1031 00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:42,760 Like finishing that race and him being there and looking him in 1032 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:45,040 the eyes and just knowing his pure joy. 1033 00:56:45,520 --> 00:56:48,120 Not an ounce of resentment for Conor. 1034 00:56:48,120 --> 00:56:53,640 And I was amazing. And I'm starting to experience 1035 00:56:53,640 --> 00:56:58,120 that with athletes like Casey and and, you know, Creed and 1036 00:56:58,120 --> 00:57:00,400 these younger guys. And it's really special. 1037 00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:03,320 But I will. They're going to have to fight 1038 00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:05,840 to knock me off the top three, I will say that. 1039 00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:11,120 Yeah, I'm just thinking like, you made a hard team in 2024, 1040 00:57:11,760 --> 00:57:14,360 but when I'm looking at this list now, it's like, OK, by 1041 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:18,080 then, Zuhair Talbi will be able to compete at the trials. 1042 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:24,200 Wesley Career, Charles Hicks, Grant Fisher's now teasing the 1043 00:57:24,240 --> 00:57:30,400 idea this is going to be the hardest US men's marathon team 1044 00:57:30,400 --> 00:57:34,480 to make in history. And one for the fans, it's not 1045 00:57:34,480 --> 00:57:37,280 too early to start to get excited about it and start, you 1046 00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:41,480 know, the speculation and and you know, the hot takes on who 1047 00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:44,040 your top three are as of March 2026. 1048 00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:50,240 But for you as a competitor, I'm sure it's also like a lot to, 1049 00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,480 but you're like, I'm just trying to get ready for Boston right 1050 00:57:52,480 --> 00:57:55,880 now. Yeah, no, I think you almost 1051 00:57:55,880 --> 00:57:57,640 quoted exactly as telling that to comment the other day. 1052 00:57:57,640 --> 00:57:59,680 Like, wow, we thought 2024 was hard. 1053 00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:04,200 Like 2028's going to be a whole different beast, but it's 1054 00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:07,000 amazing. Like, yeah, we thought the last 1055 00:58:07,000 --> 00:58:10,160 four miles of Le Petros is going to be a dogfight and, you know, 1056 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:13,080 like it just it's separated and the people that were supposed to 1057 00:58:13,080 --> 00:58:16,320 make the team did. And you know, people will self 1058 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,880 select in some degree. But yeah, it's it's daunting to 1059 00:58:19,880 --> 00:58:22,120 think about. Yeah. 1060 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:24,440 Like even like you said, the new international athletes that are 1061 00:58:24,440 --> 00:58:29,440 now that are now US athletes like the Zuhair's and the Wesley 1062 00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:32,800 Kip twos. And he had the the Charles Hicks 1063 00:58:32,800 --> 00:58:34,400 and who knows, the Cole sprouts, right? 1064 00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,840 Like there's some young guys that and I think, I think about 1065 00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:44,200 this too, like nobody knew. Nobody thought I had a shot when 1066 00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:46,840 I ran to a flat or before I ran to a flat, right? 1067 00:58:46,840 --> 00:58:49,880 Like I came out of nowhere. And if I could come out of 1068 00:58:49,880 --> 00:58:52,000 nowhere, that just means that somebody else can come out of 1069 00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,760 nowhere and surprise, you know, the Clayton Young's and the 1070 00:58:55,760 --> 00:58:59,240 Connor Manses of the world, just like we surprised, you know, the 1071 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:00,880 Gale interrupts of the world, right? 1072 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:05,680 And there's this mentality like that you can have that's really 1073 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,120 fear based. But really it's just I think 1074 00:59:08,120 --> 00:59:10,120 this is where something that Connor is really, really good 1075 00:59:10,120 --> 00:59:11,760 at. It's like it's not me versus the 1076 00:59:11,960 --> 00:59:13,440 US, it's me versus the world, right? 1077 00:59:13,440 --> 00:59:18,000 It's it's me versus the podium at Boston, right, Like that's 1078 00:59:18,000 --> 00:59:19,840 where we're shooting for. And if we can keep our eyes 1079 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:23,640 forward and focused without getting too worried about the up 1080 00:59:23,640 --> 00:59:26,920 and coming generation, I think that's our best chance of 1081 00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,960 success. And so I'm just going to, you 1082 00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:34,240 know, keep that mentality and, and luckily, you know, each one 1083 00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,280 of these world major marathons, we get a practice that like, 1084 00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:38,440 it's not about being top American, it's about putting 1085 00:59:38,440 --> 00:59:42,920 ourselves up as high as possible against the world and, and 1086 00:59:42,920 --> 00:59:45,400 getting that race experience. That's what Boston's going to be 1087 00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,800 like. One of the best things from our 1088 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:53,240 Pre Boston podcast last year was you kind of shed some light to 1089 00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:56,760 the way some of these major contracts can get structured is 1090 00:59:56,760 --> 01:00:00,600 like, how much of A bet are you willing to make on yourself? 1091 01:00:00,600 --> 01:00:05,000 And you talked about like, I'm feeling great, like I'll shoot 1092 01:00:05,000 --> 01:00:09,360 for the higher place with the less guaranteed money or 1093 01:00:09,360 --> 01:00:12,320 whatever it was. And you ended up seventh in a 1094 01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:15,760 fast time that I'm sure you're like made the right choice. 1095 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:19,240 Like I, you know, check the box. That was awesome. 1096 01:00:20,200 --> 01:00:22,840 Now this time around, coming off the injury. 1097 01:00:23,360 --> 01:00:29,040 And with the bar being really high coming off of 2025, how did 1098 01:00:29,040 --> 01:00:31,600 you play your negotiations for this race? 1099 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:35,480 Yeah, I mean, these negotiations happened so far in advance that 1100 01:00:35,480 --> 01:00:40,360 this was like pre injury that I'd even, you know, begun and I 1101 01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:42,680 think even finalized conversations with Boston. 1102 01:00:43,320 --> 01:00:46,120 And it was like, oh, I'm injured right now, maybe early in my 1103 01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:47,360 injury. And I was like, this is going to 1104 01:00:47,360 --> 01:00:50,120 last, you know, couple weeks and like I'll be ready for Boston 1105 01:00:50,120 --> 01:00:52,760 for sure. Like it never was a really a big 1106 01:00:52,760 --> 01:00:55,000 concern. But yeah, it is. 1107 01:00:55,080 --> 01:00:57,560 There is risk for sure in the contracts. 1108 01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:01,680 Like, you know, there's usually a cut off for place, there's a 1109 01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,200 cut off for time, there's a cut off for finishing and there's a 1110 01:01:05,200 --> 01:01:08,920 cut off for starting. And, and yeah, you can get, 1111 01:01:09,760 --> 01:01:12,080 yeah, you can leave a lot of money on the table if you don't 1112 01:01:12,080 --> 01:01:16,080 perform. That being said, like, and it is 1113 01:01:16,080 --> 01:01:19,320 a little bit risky too. Like, you also want to be 1114 01:01:19,320 --> 01:01:25,760 careful not to, you know, show up just for a paycheck because 1115 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,920 that may reflect badly on your negotiations for the fall with 1116 01:01:28,920 --> 01:01:30,640 other race directors. Like, you don't want to be that 1117 01:01:30,640 --> 01:01:33,240 guy. And, you know, I do pride myself 1118 01:01:33,240 --> 01:01:36,000 in being incredibly consistent. You know, Valencia was the first 1119 01:01:36,000 --> 01:01:39,520 marathon that I've had to pull out of, I think ever. 1120 01:01:39,520 --> 01:01:43,160 And, you know, that was already a tall ask with three marathons 1121 01:01:43,160 --> 01:01:46,080 in a year. But you know, you can't do that 1122 01:01:46,080 --> 01:01:49,680 too often or you can't just show up in like, I'm going to finish 1123 01:01:49,680 --> 01:01:53,560 the, the marathon and, and collect my appearance and call 1124 01:01:53,560 --> 01:01:55,560 it good, even though it might be reduced. 1125 01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:58,400 And so I am a little bit cautious about that. 1126 01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,600 And, and so like the only way, the only way through is like 1127 01:02:02,600 --> 01:02:04,800 forward. Like it's like, no, I'm, I got 1128 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,120 to, I, I'm going to give it my all. 1129 01:02:07,120 --> 01:02:11,360 And I, yeah, there's risk in stating that, you know, I could, 1130 01:02:12,720 --> 01:02:16,800 I could hide behind injury and contract negotiations and being 1131 01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:22,160 sick in life, but that's just not, I'm not in it for that. 1132 01:02:22,520 --> 01:02:26,080 And there's something that's really special too, you know, 1133 01:02:26,480 --> 01:02:27,720 about this first contract as well. 1134 01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,240 That gives me the freedom just like it was almost like Boston 1135 01:02:31,240 --> 01:02:35,560 last year where I can send it. You know, I, I there, it's, it's 1136 01:02:35,560 --> 01:02:39,520 all upside, it's all, it's all, it's all gravy, it's all bonus. 1137 01:02:39,520 --> 01:02:41,400 It's all like, let's see what we can do. 1138 01:02:41,520 --> 01:02:46,760 And I think the last thing I'll say even about Boston is, you 1139 01:02:46,760 --> 01:02:50,320 know, I as I, and I've kind of been playing with this idea the 1140 01:02:50,320 --> 01:02:52,760 last especially when I first started getting back into shape, 1141 01:02:53,160 --> 01:02:56,200 like, OK, I need to make this decision if I'm going to run 1142 01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,760 Boston or not still. But when I think about my career 1143 01:02:59,840 --> 01:03:02,600 and I like think back to like Des Linden's career or Memco 1144 01:03:02,600 --> 01:03:05,400 Flezzy's career and, and how many times they took a swing at 1145 01:03:05,400 --> 01:03:08,120 the ball at Boston. You know, every experience at 1146 01:03:08,120 --> 01:03:10,640 Boston is valuable. I've only raced it once. 1147 01:03:10,640 --> 01:03:12,440 It was my debut last year. I took 7th. 1148 01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:17,960 That's pretty cool. And and, you know, I believe 1149 01:03:18,120 --> 01:03:20,520 probably more than anybody that anything can happen at Boston 1150 01:03:20,520 --> 01:03:23,120 because I've done my research and looked at those that have 1151 01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:26,160 won in the past. And I feel like I'm one of those 1152 01:03:26,160 --> 01:03:30,560 athletes that, you know, you know, Meb won on a year when he 1153 01:03:30,560 --> 01:03:33,400 wasn't expecting to. He was almost his least fit, you 1154 01:03:33,400 --> 01:03:37,760 know, and same with Dez. And so anybody can win at Boston 1155 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:39,800 and that mentality is really important. 1156 01:03:39,800 --> 01:03:43,240 And I think also this idea that I think the odds of me winning 1157 01:03:43,240 --> 01:03:46,720 Boston are not very high. And you know, the odds of me 1158 01:03:46,720 --> 01:03:48,680 podium or being top five are not very high. 1159 01:03:48,680 --> 01:03:52,720 But I think that the value in taking a swing at the ball for 1160 01:03:52,720 --> 01:03:56,400 future years, gaining that experience, not only for future 1161 01:03:56,400 --> 01:03:59,240 Boston's but future marathons is just far too valuable. 1162 01:03:59,440 --> 01:04:03,640 And you know, if if I'm if I come, if I go in undercooked, 1163 01:04:04,120 --> 01:04:06,600 that's OK, right? This might be the first marathon 1164 01:04:07,160 --> 01:04:10,040 ever that I've had besides me in my debut that I've been 1165 01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:13,560 undercooked for a marathon. And I'm excited and curious to 1166 01:04:13,560 --> 01:04:16,240 see how that goes. And, and that's the kind of 1167 01:04:16,240 --> 01:04:17,880 mentality that I'm I'm embracing. 1168 01:04:19,080 --> 01:04:22,400 Now I'm playing through that scenario in my head of you 1169 01:04:22,400 --> 01:04:25,320 trying to pull a MEB and go in at mile 8. 1170 01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:29,000 You think Connor lets you go? I don't think so. 1171 01:04:29,160 --> 01:04:33,320 I know that's, it's funny, we've, we've joked about this 1172 01:04:33,320 --> 01:04:36,560 many a time, like, OK, if Connor sends it, do I go straight to 1173 01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,080 the front and like pump the brakes and pump the brakes and 1174 01:04:39,080 --> 01:04:41,760 pump like front pump the brakes, front pump the brakes? 1175 01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:49,480 Like, do I get? Yeah, Like, no, I don't think he 1176 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:51,560 does. I don't think he does. 1177 01:04:51,560 --> 01:04:53,600 And that just speaks to who Connor is, right? 1178 01:04:54,000 --> 01:04:56,040 One of the beauties about training together is like, I 1179 01:04:56,040 --> 01:04:59,480 think one of the, the best examples in in New York of 2025 1180 01:04:59,480 --> 01:05:01,480 when I caught him with like 3 or 4 miles to go. 1181 01:05:02,200 --> 01:05:07,360 You know, he had fallen off from the pack and I caught him and it 1182 01:05:07,360 --> 01:05:11,200 woke him up like he took off like a rocket and he had the 1183 01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:13,920 fastest last two miles of anybody in the field. 1184 01:05:14,520 --> 01:05:19,080 And so there is something about, you know me that that fires him 1185 01:05:19,080 --> 01:05:24,080 up, that gets him going. And so I think if I took off, I 1186 01:05:24,080 --> 01:05:27,000 don't know, maybe he'd let me go, but I don't think it'd be 1187 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,080 for long. All right, So we're a little 1188 01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:33,720 over a month out from from Boston at at this moment. 1189 01:05:34,000 --> 01:05:38,880 What would define success there? Oh yeah, the definition of 1190 01:05:38,880 --> 01:05:45,240 success is a tough one. The easy answer would be, Oh 1191 01:05:45,240 --> 01:05:48,840 yeah. You know, you get to the start 1192 01:05:48,840 --> 01:05:53,000 line healthy, you run as fast as you can, you do your best. 1193 01:05:55,560 --> 01:06:01,040 And, and yeah, that is like anybody that's looked at my last 1194 01:06:01,040 --> 01:06:04,480 four months would say that success because of when I've 1195 01:06:04,480 --> 01:06:06,560 been through. But also if you know me, you 1196 01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:08,080 know, that like that that doesn't cut it, right? 1197 01:06:08,080 --> 01:06:12,400 Like, yeah, that doesn't cut it. And I, it would be hard to walk 1198 01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:14,760 away disappointed. You know, it'd be easy to walk 1199 01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:19,560 away disappointed. You know, if I, I don't know, 1200 01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:23,160 like I'm, I'm one that loves momentum. 1201 01:06:23,200 --> 01:06:25,600 I love knowing like, oh, I took seventh last year. 1202 01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:29,320 I've only taken 7th in world major marathons essentially. 1203 01:06:29,320 --> 01:06:33,160 And so, like, being better than 7th would be really cool, right? 1204 01:06:34,080 --> 01:06:36,280 You know, I was 7th in Chicago. I was 7th in Boston. 1205 01:06:36,280 --> 01:06:39,320 I was 7th in New York. Like, let's break 7th, right? 1206 01:06:39,440 --> 01:06:43,240 Let's start there. They should give you bib #7 this 1207 01:06:43,240 --> 01:06:44,680 year. Yeah, seriously. 1208 01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:46,920 Well, maybe I will. Well, no, I won't based off of 1209 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:50,200 seat time, but if they did off place, yeah. 1210 01:06:52,000 --> 01:06:57,560 But yeah, I think success would be, you know, like I said, like 1211 01:06:57,560 --> 01:07:01,160 I said, even before, like I think you've got to keep your 1212 01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,400 mind open when it comes to approaching these races, like 1213 01:07:03,520 --> 01:07:06,240 races like Boston. And so yeah, for sure, like 1214 01:07:06,240 --> 01:07:08,960 there's always that slim, you know, there's there's a chance I 1215 01:07:08,960 --> 01:07:11,320 win, there's a chance I'm podium, there's a chance I'm top 1216 01:07:11,320 --> 01:07:13,400 five, there's a chance I'm 7, there's a chance that I break 1217 01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:15,880 top ten. I think that's where like that 1218 01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:20,200 would be kind of the the hopeful where I'm at. 1219 01:07:20,200 --> 01:07:22,680 Like if I could still be top ten, I think I'd be really happy 1220 01:07:22,720 --> 01:07:25,760 with given what I've I've gone through. 1221 01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:29,600 But at the same time, like, like I know I've been, I've been 1222 01:07:29,600 --> 01:07:32,120 through a lot, but I'm not going to let myself slip lower than 1223 01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:33,440 that. Like I've got to keep, like I 1224 01:07:33,440 --> 01:07:34,800 said, I've got to keep the mind forward. 1225 01:07:34,800 --> 01:07:39,920 And I yeah, I think that's what success would look like. 1226 01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:44,840 Well, Clayton, we are rooting for you and I'm excited that the 1227 01:07:44,840 --> 01:07:48,160 docu series is also coming back for this build up. 1228 01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:52,560 And so we'll get a closer glimpse of all of the training 1229 01:07:52,560 --> 01:07:54,360 that it takes to get to that starting line. 1230 01:07:54,360 --> 01:07:58,240 And then of course, how much clearer, I guess like that goal 1231 01:07:58,240 --> 01:08:00,360 gets as the the race draws nearer. 1232 01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:04,840 So always appreciate you taking the time for this and I'm sure 1233 01:08:04,840 --> 01:08:06,080 we'll catch up. In Boston. 1234 01:08:06,960 --> 01:08:08,840 Appreciate it, Chris. Thanks for asking the good 1235 01:08:08,840 --> 01:08:10,560 questions and thanks for having me. 1236 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:14,240 All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1237 01:08:14,480 --> 01:08:17,240 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1238 01:08:17,240 --> 01:08:19,960 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1239 01:08:20,640 --> 01:08:23,279 Big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair, and to everyone 1240 01:08:23,279 --> 01:08:26,319 behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Mag Podcast happen. 1241 01:08:26,680 --> 01:08:28,760 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 1242 01:08:28,760 --> 01:08:32,640 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 1243 01:08:32,640 --> 01:08:34,520 read every single one. You can find 1244 01:08:34,520 --> 01:08:38,359 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 1245 01:08:38,359 --> 01:08:39,920 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 1246 01:08:40,120 --> 01:08:42,240 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.