1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,240 All right, it is Friday, October 24th. 2 00:00:08,240 --> 00:00:11,520 This is a little bonus episode of the City Smack Podcast coming 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:16,560 your way because we got some big breaking news that happened on 4 00:00:16,760 --> 00:00:17,920 Thursday. Didn't get a chance to 5 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:21,520 immediately jump on the mics and record, but the word finally 6 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:25,080 came in from the Athletics Integrity Unit that marathon 7 00:00:25,080 --> 00:00:28,080 world record holder Ruth Chepengethic has been banned for 8 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:34,600 three years following her admission to the anti doping 9 00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:37,600 rule violation regarding the positive test for 10 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:43,080 hydrochlorothiazide, which we will probably refer to as HCTZ 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:45,320 going forward to make it much easier. 12 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,840 That, of course, is a banned diuretic and considered a 13 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:54,360 masking agent in doping. So this announcement was made 14 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,400 public on Thursday. And it came as a little bit of a 15 00:00:58,400 --> 00:01:02,760 surprise because as we probably talked about when we first heard 16 00:01:02,760 --> 00:01:05,519 news about the provisional suspension is that this thing 17 00:01:06,240 --> 00:01:10,240 carries A2 year suspension in most cases. 18 00:01:10,600 --> 00:01:13,480 And this time around, Ryu Chepingedev got slapped with 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,800 three years. How did all that all happen? 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:23,640 It comes out in a very detailed report by the AIU where they 21 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:28,360 disclosed that, you know, obviously following her world 22 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:33,520 record, they picked up on more testing for Ruth Chapin. 23 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:35,360 Get it? Definitely being targeted. 24 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:39,080 That happens when you run 2O9 in the marathon. 25 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,600 She was tested 15 times out of competition, four times in 26 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:46,040 competition in 2024. And then in the lead up to the 27 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:50,040 London Marathon in 2025 when she was one of the headliners that 28 00:01:50,040 --> 00:01:53,200 she was supposed to race there, she was tested, I'm counting 29 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:58,560 12345 times out of competition and one time in competition. 30 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:02,960 So those are important. A lot of those were urine and 31 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:08,440 blood passport testing. The interesting thing is that 32 00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,680 she raced on March 9th at the Lisbon half. 33 00:02:12,040 --> 00:02:16,080 She ran one O one hour, 6 minutes and 20 seconds, finished 34 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:20,520 second after dominating at the Chicago Marathon. 35 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,920 Running faster than that half marathon performance in Chicago 36 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,360 as part of your first or second-half split, you would 37 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:32,280 think that she'd be in great form to just destroy at these 38 00:02:32,280 --> 00:02:36,080 races, even when she's probably not at her best like you are. 39 00:02:36,720 --> 00:02:39,640 You know what, 5% better than everyone else. 40 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:44,040 So it was odd that she had this bad performance. 41 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:47,040 Then in addition to that, there was that weird 10K in Spain 42 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,920 where she'd finished second to I believe it was Marta Garcia. 43 00:02:50,920 --> 00:02:51,920 Right. Or something like that. 44 00:02:53,320 --> 00:02:57,280 Very odd performance, like you are essentially untouchable 45 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:01,160 after demolishing a world record by two minutes and then all of a 46 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,360 sudden you're having these weird bad performances. 47 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:11,200 So the March 14th test comes in and she tests positive for HCTZ 48 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:17,040 with a concentrate of 3800 nanograms per milliliter, far 49 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:22,080 beyond exceeding Wada's threshold of 20 nanograms per 50 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,880 milliliter. Like we talked about how crazy 51 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:32,680 it was to be 180% or whatever it was over the legal limit, and 52 00:03:32,880 --> 00:03:36,440 that stood out to us. And when we first discussed 53 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:42,040 this, this was interesting because we all felt that this 54 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:46,640 was not like the big smoking gun that the AIU was hoping for. 55 00:03:47,160 --> 00:03:50,600 They're probably looking for something like a positive test 56 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:57,000 for EPO or another big ban substance like a nandrolone or 57 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:58,880 whatever it is that people are using nowadays. 58 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:03,240 But this is a masking agent and she took a provisional 59 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,040 suspension. So the clock started, you know, 60 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:08,880 once she accepted the provisional suspension, I 61 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,760 believe it was in July. Is it April? 62 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:15,080 So it was the day after the London Marathon her provisional 63 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:16,839 suspension started. That's right. 64 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:20,720 And she withdrew from the London Marathon, telling the media that 65 00:04:20,720 --> 00:04:23,400 she wasn't in the right place mentally and physically. 66 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,920 And even then, we on this pod were just like, huh, that's a 67 00:04:27,200 --> 00:04:32,240 weird statement to make. What we didn't know is what was 68 00:04:32,240 --> 00:04:34,360 happening behind the scenes. And we get a little bit of a 69 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:36,840 better timeline of that through the AIU report. 70 00:04:36,840 --> 00:04:42,440 So April 16th, she does her first AIU interview and she's 71 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,040 done. This is before the London 72 00:04:44,040 --> 00:04:48,880 Marathon. She's unable to explain how HTTZ 73 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,160 got into her system, but they did collect a whole list of her 74 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,680 supplements and her medications, physical samples. 75 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:01,000 But the important thing that they got was a forensic copy of 76 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:06,880 her cell phone. And so after months of reviewing 77 00:05:06,880 --> 00:05:10,320 all this stuff, probably testing the supplements, looking through 78 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:14,040 every single ingredient that's taking place there, none, 79 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:16,960 nothing really of the supplements that she provided 80 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:21,360 said it contained HCTZ. So that was weird. 81 00:05:21,360 --> 00:05:24,360 Like you can't prove that it's in any of these things that 82 00:05:24,360 --> 00:05:26,560 you're taking and these things that you've disclosed on like 83 00:05:26,560 --> 00:05:31,200 your your forms. So then July 11th is when the 84 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:37,040 AIU confronts Schepengetic with materials that they found on her 85 00:05:37,040 --> 00:05:43,160 phone that suggested potential intentional use or intentional 86 00:05:43,160 --> 00:05:47,280 doping. Again, she has not tested 87 00:05:47,280 --> 00:05:51,360 positive for testosterone, EPO, or anything like that. 88 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:55,120 An important thing to note, but none of the things that were 89 00:05:55,120 --> 00:05:57,640 analyzed by the lab contained HCTZ. 90 00:05:57,680 --> 00:06:03,000 But what they did find in those cell phone records was one, a 91 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:06,320 screenshot of a WhatsApp message that she got from another 92 00:06:06,320 --> 00:06:10,960 athlete showing some photos of testosterone vials along with 93 00:06:10,960 --> 00:06:15,960 the message of how testosterone, asking how testosterone works. 94 00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,800 The text is like, hey, something along the lines of like, hey, 95 00:06:21,120 --> 00:06:23,440 someone told me, you know how to do this. 96 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:27,480 How do you how does it work? And from my understanding, she 97 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:32,440 didn't respond or we don't know exactly what was the next text 98 00:06:32,440 --> 00:06:38,360 that was sent, but the text was from April 14th, 2024, which was 99 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:44,440 two days before that first AIU interview and also six months 100 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,880 before she went on to break the marathon world record. 101 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:53,040 And in addition to that, the AIU found text messages from 102 00:06:53,080 --> 00:07:00,840 2022-2023, I presume 2024, 2025 as well, about how people were 103 00:07:00,840 --> 00:07:06,120 working on, quote UN quote, programs that could be connected 104 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:12,320 to doping. And again, what she says is that 105 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:16,440 she never asked for these text messages and these images of 106 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:18,600 testosterone. She may have taken these 107 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:20,600 screenshots. On accident. 108 00:07:21,040 --> 00:07:24,760 And that the other messages were random, possibly from group 109 00:07:24,760 --> 00:07:27,680 chats or things that were being forwarded to her without her 110 00:07:27,680 --> 00:07:31,160 asking. Like what we don't know is who 111 00:07:31,160 --> 00:07:34,880 was sending these text messages. It did say I think in the. 112 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:39,160 Report correct me if I'm wrong. Like another known athlete who 113 00:07:39,160 --> 00:07:42,680 has corresponded with chef and get it in the past, right? 114 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,240 Yeah, exactly. So that there was 1 athlete who 115 00:07:46,480 --> 00:07:53,080 she she knew and and there was essentially saying that they 116 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:56,480 they those two athletes, Chapin Gedditch and this athlete who 117 00:07:56,480 --> 00:08:00,160 she was on WhatsApp with corresponded regularly and that 118 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:06,840 athlete had actually been told to ask Chapin Gedditch how these 119 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:15,840 things work by another athlete. So that it's absolutely wild. 120 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,720 This was the yeah. I mean, while I was cooking up 121 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,160 the breaking news graphic and reading through the report, you 122 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:28,000 were also reading through it. And I think like, initially the 123 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:31,800 news story is 3 years. We finally found out how long 124 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:34,760 the sentence was. It was kind of, it takes a 125 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,000 couple minutes to get through the meat of the document, and 126 00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,600 then it's these text messages that make things super wild. 127 00:08:41,880 --> 00:08:42,799 We'll, we'll talk a little bit more. 128 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:45,440 About it in a SEC. Because that was just like the 129 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:49,200 first, you know, sketchy set of text messages. 130 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:53,040 Then there was another photo of a vial and a box of anavar, 131 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:55,400 which is another banned substance. 132 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:58,840 And this image was from April 29th, 2024. 133 00:08:59,840 --> 00:09:06,080 And Chefengetich responded, saying again that like, it may 134 00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:09,400 have been from a group chat or she didn't ask for it and it 135 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:10,720 got. Saved whatever. 136 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:18,440 Pretty weak defense. So after this is all presented, 137 00:09:18,440 --> 00:09:19,840 actually let's hit pause right there. 138 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:25,960 Pre if you are in Ruth Chapin Gedditch's group chat. 139 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:28,160 You're sweating bullets right now. 140 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,640 Yeah. I mean, there's obviously been 141 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,320 in the past, right, because of all these historic Kenyan doping 142 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:40,280 positives. And you know, a lot of these 143 00:09:40,280 --> 00:09:42,960 athletes, they're not necessarily like, they're not 144 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:46,920 super well educated. Like to carry out doping, you've 145 00:09:46,920 --> 00:09:48,680 got to have someone telling you what to do. 146 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:52,000 And so every time we see one of these doping positives, we're 147 00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:54,240 always asking the question, well, who is giving them the 148 00:09:54,240 --> 00:09:56,240 drugs? Who is telling them how to dope? 149 00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,560 Is it the coaches? Is it the agents? 150 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:01,920 Is it some local doctors who realise that there's good 151 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:05,120 business in doing this in areas where athletes are training? 152 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:10,840 Like, we don't know and we've never really seen much evidence, 153 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,840 like of we just hear that the athletes been banned and we 154 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:15,280 never find out anything more than that. 155 00:10:16,560 --> 00:10:19,560 The City Smack podcast is presented by Gnomeo. 156 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,040 You know that feeling when your legs just click? 157 00:10:22,120 --> 00:10:24,920 When the training's feeling smoother, recovery comes faster 158 00:10:24,920 --> 00:10:29,480 and race day hits just right? 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To be fair, there was. 217 00:13:38,560 --> 00:13:41,880 There was this really wild case a few weeks ago where one guy 218 00:13:41,880 --> 00:13:47,680 admitted that he had paid a bus conductor to go to the pharmacy. 219 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:50,520 Someone had told him, oh this thing makes you run faster. 220 00:13:50,560 --> 00:13:54,960 Turns out it was EPO. He paid a bus conductor to go to 221 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:59,760 a pharmacist in town in the main E 10 town and go and buy it for 222 00:13:59,760 --> 00:14:03,360 him and bring it back to him. And that was his kind of and he 223 00:14:03,360 --> 00:14:05,040 didn't realize that this was a banned substance. 224 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:06,400 He was just told it it could run. 225 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:10,800 Bananas excuse where it's sort of like you, I mean the dude had 226 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,280 run, I think what was it like the Barcelona half and finished 227 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:14,880 like on the podium or something like that. 228 00:14:15,960 --> 00:14:18,400 We can probably dig up his his name, but it was it's, it's 229 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,000 like, I think one of the more recent Kenyan doping cases in 230 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:25,520 the last month to not to be running at that level and not 231 00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:31,040 know what EPO is, is like I, I don't you can't believe it. 232 00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,080 Then the fact that like you're going to trust a random bus 233 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:40,040 driver to go and like get it. So when I read that one, I was 234 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:42,720 just like, this is not the the full story, not the real story. 235 00:14:43,840 --> 00:14:48,480 Again, you're you're passing the buck to try and find another way 236 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:55,040 to hide the real paper trail of. How people are getting a hold of 237 00:14:55,080 --> 00:15:03,080 of these drugs and so with this we still don't know who was who 238 00:15:03,080 --> 00:15:05,640 else is on the receiving end of these text messages. 239 00:15:06,640 --> 00:15:12,080 And the the most, the, the biggest thing about Ruth 240 00:15:12,080 --> 00:15:16,280 Chepingettich that I think I, I want to bring back from even 241 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,880 2024. And this is something that I was 242 00:15:20,880 --> 00:15:23,960 like noting. I wrote, I wrote a whole chapter 243 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:28,040 on Ruth Chepingettich's two O 9 marathon for my upcoming book. 244 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:32,200 And this is before the provisional suspension. 245 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,400 And part of it was trying to make sense of. 246 00:15:34,400 --> 00:15:38,040 Like how this could actually be real and how, you know, probably 247 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:45,160 is open to a lot of skepticism. And the skepticism came from the 248 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:50,800 jump. In in how big of a PR this was 249 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,320 at the age that she's doing it, like all the typical factors 250 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:55,840 that you can, you know, point out. 251 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,720 And I think the reason why it was so different from and I 252 00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,480 noted how like it's different from a Kipchogi breaking a world 253 00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:08,280 record is that we just don't know anything about her 254 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,080 training. We're supposed to believe the 255 00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,800 fact that Ruth Chepingettich is self coached. 256 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:18,200 She coached herself to 209 in the marathon. 257 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,680 You are. You yourself are a better coach 258 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,400 than the hundreds and thousands of coaches around the world who 259 00:16:25,400 --> 00:16:26,760 have. You know, led to all these 260 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:28,920 performances. That's where it's like, you 261 00:16:29,000 --> 00:16:33,360 know, in 2019 when she ran the as I was researching this in 262 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,360 2019 when she ran the World Championships at the in Doha and 263 00:16:37,360 --> 00:16:38,960 the marathon was held at midnight. 264 00:16:39,200 --> 00:16:42,400 There was one guy, I think who was part of the Kenyan team who 265 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:46,200 claimed to be her coach. But in recent years, she says 266 00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:49,400 that she's self coach and she reiterated that when I asked her 267 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:51,400 in the press conference in Chicago. 268 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:57,280 And we knew from the Calvin Kipton post race press 269 00:16:57,280 --> 00:17:00,120 conference and some interviews that the dude was running crazy 270 00:17:00,120 --> 00:17:04,240 mileage, something like 170 to 180 miles a week, which is 271 00:17:04,240 --> 00:17:08,440 apparently also something that's like maybe what Kiplimo Kiplimo 272 00:17:08,440 --> 00:17:10,560 Jacob Ublimo has made like a major jump. 273 00:17:10,560 --> 00:17:12,880 And like we just don't know yet. Like the science isn't out there 274 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:14,000 and the studies aren't out there to see. 275 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,359 Just like is running this crazy high mileage that some of these 276 00:17:17,359 --> 00:17:21,839 athletes claim to be doing also leading leaving leading to these 277 00:17:21,839 --> 00:17:26,640 big leaps in. Marathon PRS and fast times like 278 00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:28,160 we just don't know that just quite yet. 279 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,760 But we had no we still have no idea like how was Rusev and get 280 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:35,440 it training and and like what kind of workouts is she doing? 281 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:40,400 We have 0 Intel because her camp is so and her circle is so 282 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:43,480 small. So this at least gives us a cue 283 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:49,560 that the AIU is at least on to trying to expand that circle, 284 00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:53,440 find some names, find some notable people, and it and this 285 00:17:53,440 --> 00:17:57,240 is only it, seems like the tip of the iceberg for their 286 00:17:57,240 --> 00:17:59,000 investigation into Rootship and Getage. 287 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,520 What I found that was really fascinating about this was 288 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:05,200 normally when we get a decision, the AOU might be investigating 289 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,680 follow up stuff. Obviously they want to know who 290 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:10,240 supplied the drugs and I, I, they always want to know that. 291 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,920 But in this case they have openly in the decision said 292 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,280 we've got this additional information. 293 00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:19,240 We don't have anything further than that, but they've disclosed 294 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:21,280 the information. I find that really surprising 295 00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,480 because I don't think I've ever seen anything like that before. 296 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:25,880 The only time we've ever seen something like that is maybe 297 00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:30,200 when there was Peter Bowl, the Peter Bowl case where there was 298 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:34,160 this letter from, was it Victor Conte, wasn't it? 299 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:38,160 That was on his his phone, but it was actually I think it was 300 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,680 ABBC article or something that someone had he said someone had 301 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:42,600 sent him and he just he just reads that kind of stuff. 302 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,680 You know, he just read something but and that didn't even come 303 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,960 out from the ARU or WADA or where it. 304 00:18:48,440 --> 00:18:50,960 Came in the Australian media. Yeah, the Peter Bull case is, 305 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,920 is, is very different. It's like a lot of the stuff 306 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,320 leaks through the media and eventually like Peter Bull's 307 00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:05,240 case got like essentially, I would say analyzed and it, it 308 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:10,440 was very public compared to just sort of like allowing for the 309 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:13,960 authorities like the AIU to do their thing and then come out 310 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,400 and, you know, present everything like the Peter Bowl 311 00:19:16,400 --> 00:19:21,960 case, kind of because of the leaks and, and LED to Peter Bowl 312 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,760 having to defend himself very publicly outside of what would 313 00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:29,280 be maybe like a tribunal or a court or, you know, panel. 314 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:31,760 So what? Happens here. 315 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:35,680 Next is Cheppengetic changes her story. 316 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:42,360 On July 31st, 2 weeks after she got charged with and she 317 00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:45,720 accepted the provisional suspension, she gave a new 318 00:19:45,760 --> 00:19:50,120 explanation, saying that on March 12th, 2025, she felt 319 00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:54,640 unwell, she was sweating, weak, fast heartbreak and took some 320 00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:57,920 medicine from her house maid, who had also been, you know, 321 00:19:57,920 --> 00:19:59,920 experiencing similar symptoms recently. 322 00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:05,280 The one pill that she took turned out to contain. 323 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:09,040 HCTZ Well, it was. Just HCTZ, it wasn't anything 324 00:20:09,040 --> 00:20:10,960 else, it was literally a pill. Yeah, it was. 325 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:11,920 Yeah. Yeah, you're right. 326 00:20:12,440 --> 00:20:15,560 She didn't realize that it was banned and she forgot to mention 327 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,560 it on her doping control form 2 days later. 328 00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:24,600 The AIU did not accept this explanation as credible and they 329 00:20:24,600 --> 00:20:28,680 cited recklessness and direct intent which allows them to 330 00:20:28,680 --> 00:20:31,960 change. You know, the typical 2 year 331 00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:35,520 suspension just for the positive test for a diuretic. 332 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:41,480 Into pursuing a potential four year ban and and suspension. 333 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,040 But the interesting thing that Preet you picked up on is that, 334 00:20:46,360 --> 00:20:50,400 and this is also buried within this very detailed decision, the 335 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:55,240 AIU asked labs to go and recheck her earlier drug testing samples 336 00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:59,120 from just like a couple weeks before the March positive test. 337 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,840 And the there was a sample from February 28th, two weeks before 338 00:21:04,840 --> 00:21:09,800 the positive test that showed tiny traces of HCTZ, but the 339 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,680 amount was too low to count as a violation at the time. 340 00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:20,560 And that's. Important because as the AIU 341 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:25,080 continues to investigate things, I think what is happening now is 342 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:32,880 trying to backtrack and see how far back does this use of HCTZ 343 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,040 extend to. Ironically enough, you look at 344 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:40,040 the the photo that Rich Eppingettich provided to the 345 00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,120 investigation. It's, you know, the the. 346 00:21:44,120 --> 00:21:48,480 Blister packaging of the HDHCTZ pills. 347 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,320 There's been four that have been taken so. 348 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:54,000 So she took one. What about the? 349 00:21:54,000 --> 00:21:57,080 Other three I I want to know about that and. 350 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:02,800 Now what happened is you know when when they issue hey all 351 00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:04,600 right we're going to charge you we're going to try and charge 352 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:09,680 you for four years and and give you a four year suspension chip 353 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:15,040 and get it admits her guilt and accepted the sanction, which 354 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:18,120 means that it got reduced to three years. 355 00:22:18,640 --> 00:22:20,720 Very common that that happens where it's like you get 356 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:23,880 presented what the sanction is if you accept it and admit that 357 00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:26,840 you were guilty, they'll take a year off. 358 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,320 Like this was presented to I think in the Shelby Houlihan 359 00:22:30,320 --> 00:22:32,560 case, like it was presented as an option, but. 360 00:22:33,280 --> 00:22:35,440 As an athlete, if you're going to continue to say like you 361 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,960 never intentionally doped or took a banned substance or 362 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:41,800 whatever it is like. You got to hold your ground and 363 00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:46,440 then continue to fight. Fight it or else you are 364 00:22:46,440 --> 00:22:49,400 admitting that you committed an anti doping violation. 365 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:54,960 And so she chose to admit that she took the HCTZ. 366 00:22:57,080 --> 00:23:00,840 But then the AIU did note that they're going to continue to 367 00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:04,720 investigate the suspicious material that was on her phone, 368 00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:09,800 but also noting that any result prior. 369 00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:18,080 To March 14th, 2025 including the Marathon World record are 370 00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:26,520 still standing unless they can prove that Ruth Chapin Getich 371 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:34,800 was taking HTHCTZ before October when she ran the marathon World 372 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,240 record. As of right now, this record is 373 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,400 going to stand so Preet. How do you feel in general, just 374 00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,400 sort of like after this whole thing, you know, came about 375 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,400 because the overwhelming response online has been it is 376 00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:56,360 absolutely bananas that the record can still stand given the 377 00:23:56,360 --> 00:23:59,840 fact. That we even have these text 378 00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:07,840 messages that show suspicious activity months before she goes 379 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:12,840 off and shatters take us as safe as former world record of 211 by 380 00:24:12,840 --> 00:24:14,960 two minutes. Yeah. 381 00:24:15,000 --> 00:24:17,280 I mean, I think it's a bit difficult, right, Because you 382 00:24:17,280 --> 00:24:20,560 can say, well, we've been texting about banned substances 383 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:22,680 because we've been talking about this doping decision, right? 384 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:26,680 The fact that there are text messages about banned substances 385 00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,560 on our phones doesn't mean that we're taking. 386 00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:33,920 So I, I think the problem the AIU have is that yes, OK, she's 387 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,360 an athlete and she's talking about these things, right? 388 00:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,120 That doesn't necessarily provide them with any with evidence that 389 00:24:40,120 --> 00:24:45,280 she took them at the time, unless it comes up in a sample 390 00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:48,240 that they collect. And it's very, very difficult, 391 00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:50,960 like legally and and this is this is a large part of the 392 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,480 problem. We have a legal process and if 393 00:24:53,480 --> 00:24:56,800 you, you know, to actually find someone guilty of something 394 00:24:56,880 --> 00:25:01,080 which will end their career, which will prevent them from 395 00:25:01,080 --> 00:25:05,280 having future earning potential. Like, you know, particularly 396 00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:07,920 like if you imagine it's the US where like people sue anybody 397 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,080 for anything. Like you're going to get sued 398 00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:12,000 straight away. If there's any grounds to say, 399 00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,320 like you just decided it there was no, you know, there was no 400 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:18,760 actual evidence to support it, you're going to get sued out of 401 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,560 town. So they can only, they are very, 402 00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,080 very limited in they have to find actual evidence, right. 403 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,280 And so we understand that like we also think, yes, we, you 404 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:32,760 know, this looks shady as anything like the high 405 00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,480 likelihood is given the performance that she produced in 406 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,800 Chicago and given what happened thereafter and what's been found 407 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:44,880 on her phone, the evidence all points in that direction very 408 00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:48,200 clearly that she was taking something that was not allowed 409 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:49,680 that facilitated that performance. 410 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,040 But there isn't any proof and obviously people know like we 411 00:25:54,040 --> 00:25:56,680 know about all those athletes from the 80s and whatever 412 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,200 they're taking stuff and those records are still standing for 413 00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,640 those very same reasons, even though they're records from the 414 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,200 80s, right? They're still standing. 415 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,840 And Seb Co, I think I mentioned this previously when we talked 416 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,560 about this, Seb Co even spoke very openly about this. 417 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,200 There is very little we can do because we think those countries 418 00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:16,560 will take us to court if we try and remove their world records 419 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,720 because you know, they see them as a world records from our 420 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:23,240 country or whatever it is. So they can't, they can't go 421 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,440 back and say, oh, there are world records. 422 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,360 We're World Athletics. We we decide what's a world 423 00:26:28,360 --> 00:26:31,320 record. No, it's the rules are the 424 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,920 rules. And we have to kind of operate 425 00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:36,920 within this legal framework to ensure that we don't waste all 426 00:26:36,920 --> 00:26:39,280 the World Athletics is money defending ourselves against 427 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,480 lawsuits instead of investing in the sport. 428 00:26:42,680 --> 00:26:46,520 And that's the problem. Yeah, I you bring up a great 429 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:49,000 point about some of those old world records, like most 430 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:51,480 recently when we were talking about Beatrice Chibet and Faith 431 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,360 Kebig on going after that 3K world record. 432 00:26:54,360 --> 00:27:00,480 Like there's an actual letter that is out there signed by Wang 433 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:04,360 Jingziya from China admitting that she was part of like this 434 00:27:04,360 --> 00:27:07,800 larger doping scheme that was being put on. 435 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,040 But like, obviously, I think she was a victim is, is sort of like 436 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:17,080 the way that she was being painted of like Ma's army, the 437 00:27:17,120 --> 00:27:20,320 the coach who was like doping all up, all his athletes and 438 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:21,440 they were shattering all these records. 439 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,040 Like, like she was kind of coerced and and forced into to 440 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,920 this whole entire thing. And even when this report comes 441 00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:31,480 out in 2016 that there's this letter out there, there's been 442 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:36,040 zero follow up from like World Athletics to to get that mark 443 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:39,400 off of the books. And so that's my hope in this 444 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:41,280 situation. It's like now they've teased us 445 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:45,440 with like this, hey, there's more that we're looking into. 446 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:52,200 OK, you're looking into it. Tell us in six months, a year, 447 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,920 what have you found? What's the status of it? 448 00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:59,920 Because we don't want to be left in the dark as as fans with it, 449 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:01,600 with this kind of stuff. And I know it's going to take 450 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:07,280 time, but like there, there have been many instances just sort of 451 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:09,400 where it's like, oh, OK, like we're all in agreement. 452 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:12,280 And there's some evidence that like, there could have been 453 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:17,880 doping happening behind this performance, but we can't do 454 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:20,800 anything to erase it. The key thing here is going to 455 00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:22,520 be the athlete biological passport. 456 00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:26,600 And to try and examine and see. If there are any sort of trends 457 00:28:26,600 --> 00:28:31,160 and patterns that may signal that there was intentional 458 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:36,120 doping in the lead up to something like Chicago, because 459 00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:39,480 without that, it like that is the only way you we're working 460 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,520 backwards now and trying to examine whatever tests and stuff 461 00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:48,160 that they have from Chef and Getich in the lead up to 462 00:28:48,360 --> 00:28:53,120 Chicago. Because right now it's sort of 463 00:28:53,120 --> 00:28:56,040 if you, if you're going by the legalities of just how 464 00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,400 everything works it. And this is where sort of like 465 00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:05,040 the people think it's so stupid that now because of how the 466 00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,640 legal system works in this whole thing, it's like, oh, she only 467 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,480 started doping after she broke the world record. 468 00:29:11,480 --> 00:29:14,920 And it's like no common sense would say that there's, you 469 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:19,880 know, allegedly like she's been at this before and now and just 470 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,280 slipped up this one time and finally got caught. 471 00:29:23,200 --> 00:29:25,880 Yeah, I mean, the the issue, I think we'll like even the 472 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,720 athlete biological passport, the ARU have really struggled to 473 00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:32,520 make those cases stick where they have found someone and 474 00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,920 someone who's got a good legal team can make those cases fall 475 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,040 apart pretty quickly. Because you are not doing it 476 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:41,160 based on an actual failed test. You're doing it just based on 477 00:29:41,160 --> 00:29:43,600 patterns. And you can get a different 478 00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,160 scientist to analyse those patterns differently. 479 00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:48,640 Or say, you know, I was Nora. Giruto. 480 00:29:48,680 --> 00:29:50,520 From Nora Giruto is the prime example. 481 00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:53,400 That's exactly what I was going to give who is the steeplechase 482 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:59,000 world champion from 2022 and then was found to have committed 483 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,040 a biological passport violation, but was able to successfully 484 00:30:03,040 --> 00:30:05,440 appeal that and and then. He was like due. 485 00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:09,080 To blood clots or, or COVID and all this kind of stuff. 486 00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,680 And it's like, that's when it gets weird or it's sort of like 487 00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:16,480 you're the you're an earth shattering athlete who's doing 488 00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:18,720 things that no one has ever done before, but we're now supposed 489 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:27,080 to believe that you are also very crippled by XYZ sickness 490 00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,800 and thing. 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You can check out all of their 538 00:33:08,760 --> 00:33:13,240 flavors and get 25% off your orders at drinklollipop.com 539 00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,040 using code SIDIOUS 25 at checkout. 540 00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,400 Find them, sip them, and don't miss The SpongeBob Movie in 541 00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:23,920 theaters December 19th. I will say, look, I'm glad that 542 00:33:23,920 --> 00:33:27,000 the AOU gave us something like they gave, they gave us these 543 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,440 WhatsApp and the images and these screenshots and, and 544 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,080 things like that, which suggest that there is more because it 545 00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:35,520 sounds like they're almost throwing shade, which is like 546 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,400 unbelievable in my view. Like that. 547 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,720 There was, they're saying like this athlete is there is 548 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:42,160 anything and we're going to catch her, right? 549 00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:44,760 And this is, this is not something that they normally do, 550 00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:46,560 right? They will behind the scenes be 551 00:33:46,560 --> 00:33:50,240 saying, you know, intelligence LED like, or if someone is 552 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,640 obviously like they set a world record or whatever it is, they 553 00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,680 will test them more. If they've had a crazy 554 00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:59,080 progression, they will test them more like they, they use those 555 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:02,160 patterns that like the common sense would dictate, like all of 556 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,960 us that might be like in the back of our minds seeing a 557 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:08,440 performance on on the track or on the roads and going, oh, that 558 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,400 looks a bit dodgy. Like people, we all do that. 559 00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:13,520 Like we're obviously not going to throw our accusations Willy 560 00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,120 nilly on on a podcast or anything, but obviously in the 561 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,520 back of our minds, like everyone who watches some crazy 562 00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,080 performance. And we all did after that 563 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,440 marathon world record. Like. 564 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:25,600 We're going to think those things, you know, you do in 565 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:28,920 their methodology, they do do this intelligence LED stuff and 566 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:32,639 they do penalize patterns and trends and test people more who 567 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:36,880 appear to be higher risk or or more likely they think to be 568 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,880 doping on that basis. So they do do that. 569 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,560 And here they are saying very clearly that we think, and I'm 570 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,480 just gobsmacked that they've actually said it out loud. 571 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,360 I really am. So I'm look, I don't think we're 572 00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,639 going to get much more just because I think it's difficult 573 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:53,719 for them to they have to kind of keep the process confidential. 574 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,960 They have to try and see if they can catch the people that are 575 00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:01,080 behind this in some other way. But I think it is, it is 576 00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,480 difficult. It's going to inevitably very 577 00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:06,920 challenging to get actual evidence of, of wrongdoing 578 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,640 unless they can get someone who was maybe supplying her to admit 579 00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:13,360 to the fact that they were supplying her with drugs or 580 00:35:13,360 --> 00:35:15,480 something like that before that time. 581 00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:19,240 That's probably I, I, I don't see much hope of it coming from, 582 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,240 you know, actual reviewing her previous samples and stuff. 583 00:35:23,240 --> 00:35:24,680 I think that that's pretty difficult. 584 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:27,920 Yeah, you know, you mentioned. How just sort of like they're 585 00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,160 taking a moment to revel and just sort of like at least like 586 00:35:30,160 --> 00:35:33,280 this being a success because like the press release is titled 587 00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,800 Howman nobody above the rules. And it's like AIU bans chip and 588 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,840 get it for three years and they've got the the the case. 589 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:43,600 I think like they've they've been pinning their tweets 590 00:35:43,920 --> 00:35:46,840 sometimes when it's like it was the Fred Curly 1 was pinned for 591 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,040 a bit. Any big fish that they've caught 592 00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,600 like they've, you know, taken a chance to, like, highlight it 593 00:35:52,600 --> 00:35:54,920 for sure. Yeah. 594 00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:58,840 It's, it's I. And then again, like the next 595 00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,600 loudest thing that's been on social media has obviously been 596 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,160 like the call to Ben Federico Rosa. 597 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:10,200 And you know, I think it was like, James McCurdy tweeted out. 598 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:12,760 Like, let me see, I've got it right in front of me here. 599 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,680 He said. I'm not sure there's enough 600 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:17,120 characters allowed on Twitter to list all of the names of 601 00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,160 athletes who've been represented by Rosa Sociati and have been 602 00:36:20,160 --> 00:36:22,120 caught doping. His agency needs to be banned by 603 00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:23,560 World Athletics. His business model. 604 00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:29,800 As he says is bullshit. And I think recently it was John 605 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:33,880 Galt from from Let's run was checking in with like, you know, 606 00:36:33,880 --> 00:36:36,880 some of the world marathon majors, elite athlete 607 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:40,440 coordinators and the heads of those organizations to see like 608 00:36:40,440 --> 00:36:44,680 what it what's the deal with like have like inviting Rosa or 609 00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:47,960 his athletes to races. And the way that they also, I 610 00:36:47,960 --> 00:36:50,640 think probably legally have to approach things is just see 611 00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,640 like, well, every athlete is a, you know, individual case. 612 00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:57,360 Like, you know, they take things on a case by case basis. 613 00:36:57,920 --> 00:36:59,440 And so then I took it upon myself. 614 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:02,800 So I mean, that's the thing. It's like there has never, there 615 00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,320 has yet to be a race director out there who is said like, 616 00:37:06,560 --> 00:37:13,720 we're not going to contract any of Federico Rosa's athletes due 617 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:19,800 to the rampant resume of doping issues that many of his clients 618 00:37:19,800 --> 00:37:22,400 have had. We've yet to see that from any 619 00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,840 race. And you know, again, we can go. 620 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,520 I think we've done this. Before where we've. 621 00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,800 Connected dots and said like, well, Chicago's a Nike race. 622 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,680 Rose is still backed by Nike. My whole entire thinking is I 623 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:39,480 think there needs to be a lot more pressure put on Nike to 624 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:42,120 drop this guy, like until he can clean house. 625 00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:45,320 And I actually went back and because Federico Rosa and you 626 00:37:45,320 --> 00:37:50,080 know, his, his, his father, Doctor Gabriel Rosa, they don't 627 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:52,240 really do that many interviews. I think that they know they're 628 00:37:52,240 --> 00:37:54,720 going to get hit with some pretty hard hitting questions. 629 00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:58,800 But Doctor Gabriel Rosa did do an interview with Let's Run back 630 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:05,800 in 2016 when this was I think a couple months after Federico and 631 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,200 Claudia Berardelli, who was like the head trainer in like the 632 00:38:09,480 --> 00:38:14,160 Rosa camp. They were arrested in Kenya and 633 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:17,200 then let out on bail. And then the charges were 634 00:38:17,200 --> 00:38:23,400 ultimately dropped where they were charged with, you know, 635 00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,720 posing harm to athletes through doping. 636 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,840 I'm really kind of, you know, summarizing the case there. 637 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,480 But they they never got found guilty of anything. 638 00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:38,280 And one thing that Doctor Rosa noted in this interview to, to 639 00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:40,560 Let's Run was just sort of, he just kept reiterating like, we 640 00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,200 are clean. And he put some blame on Claudio 641 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:47,800 Barrardelli, who's now also still like the coach to the 642 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:52,680 likes of Sebastian Saway, Evans, Chibet, that whole group. 643 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:54,320 I think they're the 2 running crew. 644 00:38:54,560 --> 00:38:58,000 I think they've parted ways a bit because he's more backed by 645 00:38:58,000 --> 00:39:02,320 Adidas and then the Rosa camp is still heavily backed by Nike. 646 00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:06,200 And one thing that Doctor Rosa had said was that, like, he put 647 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,440 some blame on Berardelli for being too naive and like 648 00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,040 allowing for some of this doping to happen just kind of under his 649 00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:15,360 watch while he's in in these camp. 650 00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:21,080 And then, you know, he kind of got backed up by the Court of 651 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,320 Arbitration for Sport, came out with like a report that said 652 00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:27,920 that Rita Jeptu concealed and hid the doping from her coach 653 00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:33,200 and her manager. And so while it's easy for me to 654 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,680 pull up 3000 characters worth of, you know, athletes in the 655 00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,360 past who have tested positive under Federico Rosa, who have, 656 00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:46,680 who have been represented by Federico Rosa, it really is. 657 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:51,960 You're sort of like in many of these cases, they are in this 658 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:55,120 camp. And this camp has had now just a 659 00:39:55,120 --> 00:40:00,080 pervasive number of doping suspensions and cases. 660 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,640 And so maybe someone like Federica Rosa is not on the 661 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:04,640 phone. You may be he may these text 662 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,320 messages like people are hoping and praying that there's a 663 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:10,600 Federica Rosa text message to Ruth Chepingettich reminding her 664 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:13,880 to take her dose of HCTZ. That's probably not going to be 665 00:40:13,880 --> 00:40:16,600 the case. There are people. 666 00:40:16,600 --> 00:40:20,480 Apparently in these camps or potentially in these camps. 667 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:24,000 Who? Are the bad actors and pushing 668 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:25,680 some of these athletes to do these things? 669 00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:29,440 And my hope is that this investigation widens that scope 670 00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:33,160 and we can hopefully find out who some of these people are. 671 00:40:33,160 --> 00:40:35,880 It's going to be very hard like, and I'm not getting my hopes up 672 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,400 that it's going to happen anytime soon or quickly. 673 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:43,800 But it is like, again, if you you could be an American agent 674 00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:49,960 who has 100 Kenyan athletes and you might end up having a list 675 00:40:50,040 --> 00:40:55,640 just like Federico Rosa because this is a very big problem in 676 00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,120 Kenya right now. So while there's a lot of anger 677 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:05,400 directed at him, his next move should just be clean house in 678 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,760 that camp. Fire everybody who's in there. 679 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,280 Yes, you're getting results and these athletes are running well. 680 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:16,080 But if you're so I think Nike should suspend their contract 681 00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:22,200 with Federica Rosa until he can prove that his whole entire 682 00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,840 camp, as you know, we we've we've redone this, we've fired 683 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,160 all these people and we're bringing in new people. 684 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,680 We'll subject everyone. We're open to being subjected to 685 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,280 testing. And this is a very optimistic 686 00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,960 sort of scenario. But I think there needs to be 687 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:44,760 pressure on Nike to no longer sponsor Rosa until he can prove 688 00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:46,880 that he's gotten his act together within this camp. 689 00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:51,000 And then two, for Rosa to clean up that camp for sure. 690 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,480 Because I mean, I don't know how you can go about business and 691 00:41:54,480 --> 00:41:57,240 show your face at these world Marathon Majors. 692 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:00,000 Like you, he's walking around at these press conferences and 693 00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,840 stuff. And yet you've got this cloud 694 00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:07,560 hanging over you like you're one of the dirtiest agents in the 695 00:42:07,560 --> 00:42:11,400 sport because this is what people think of. 696 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,520 And so he needs to get his act together. 697 00:42:14,520 --> 00:42:18,280 And then also just like in general, then I mean, it's it's 698 00:42:18,400 --> 00:42:21,800 it's just a shame that they're whoever these bad actors are, 699 00:42:22,400 --> 00:42:25,440 they're praying on these poor Kenyan athletes who like for 700 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,040 them, they see this is a lifeline. 701 00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:30,320 They wanted to win a world marathon major. 702 00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:32,760 It's something that someone had texted me was like, I can't 703 00:42:32,760 --> 00:42:36,000 believe that someone like Ruth Chapin Gettich has a house maid. 704 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:39,560 And I was like, she won Chicago three times. 705 00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:42,720 She it's like $100,000 payday like. 706 00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:47,040 Just to clarify, right, Like everyone in Kenya, like anyone 707 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,600 who's middle class will have a housemaid, right? 708 00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,440 Anyone in in India, I know full well, like if you're middle 709 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,720 class, you have a housemate, you have a cleaner, you have like 710 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:58,800 you have a cook, you have all these things, right? 711 00:42:58,800 --> 00:43:02,840 That is absolutely normal. Like that's just in countries 712 00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:06,080 where labour is cheap, like that's what you have. 713 00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:07,920 You don't do these kind of things yourself. 714 00:43:07,920 --> 00:43:10,400 That's just not, you know, you'll probably have a driver, 715 00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:14,000 you'll have all these things. But you know, but definitely the 716 00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:16,320 housemaid is the most basic thing, like just someone, 717 00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:18,920 whether they come two hours a day or if you're you're 718 00:43:18,920 --> 00:43:21,080 wealthier, you'll get someone who who lives in with you. 719 00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,440 But you know you you will definitely have that. 720 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:26,680 Yeah. And so, yeah, that's it. 721 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:30,280 It's just sort of like what we've seen so far be the trend 722 00:43:30,280 --> 00:43:37,360 is that the blame gets pushed to, you know, not the bus driver 723 00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:40,920 who has nothing to do with the camp and athletics. 724 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,120 The the the blame gets put on the housemaid. 725 00:43:47,000 --> 00:43:50,880 So it's like, I think that this is this investigation is on the 726 00:43:50,880 --> 00:43:55,880 right track to try and see if they can find anything that 727 00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:58,760 points to OK, if this text was coming from another athlete, 728 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:02,960 that other athlete said that they heard from somebody who's 729 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:05,960 that somebody. So now like we can start to play 730 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:12,040 literally a game of telephone to see like trace who the outer 731 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,040 circle around Richard Chapinjedic is because. 732 00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:17,680 Like I said. Before, like we didn't, we don't 733 00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,000 know who who is in that camp and who's, who are training 734 00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:25,560 partners, who, who are, who is her coach because I don't 735 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,840 believe that it's her. And so, yeah. 736 00:44:28,840 --> 00:44:31,400 And and again, here's sort of like it's very easy for a lot of 737 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:33,400 people right now to take a victory lap and say like, oh, I 738 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:34,560 told you so. I told you so. 739 00:44:34,560 --> 00:44:38,320 I told you so. And also harp on people who's 740 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:42,360 like, oh, like, you know, you were a reporter, A journalist, 741 00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:44,360 commentator, whatever it is. And like you didn't call this 742 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:47,480 out for being BS at the time. It's like we can't do that 743 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:50,400 legally. We can't do that until someone 744 00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:55,160 actually gets popped. We can have our suspicions for 745 00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,080 sure. We have to kind of keep those 746 00:44:57,080 --> 00:44:59,720 private or like bury them in our subconscious. 747 00:44:59,960 --> 00:45:04,360 And as a fan, like, that is the harsh reality sometimes because 748 00:45:04,360 --> 00:45:08,080 if you just watch every single person winning these races and 749 00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:09,680 immediately assume they're doping, there's no way to 750 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,440 actually, like, enjoy the sport. But sometimes there are 751 00:45:12,720 --> 00:45:16,800 performances that feel too good to be true and just might be too 752 00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:18,200 good to be true. And I think that this was 753 00:45:18,200 --> 00:45:22,960 certainly one of them, that now a lot of people who called the 754 00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:28,760 BS at first feel vindicated. But it also, you know, comes 755 00:45:28,760 --> 00:45:30,920 with so much more evidence than was at the time. 756 00:45:31,360 --> 00:45:36,040 And I guess one last thing was that I, I said this in 2024, 757 00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,440 right after kind of like the crazy press conference with 758 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:42,960 Rojo, you know, asking Ruchep and Getich point blank about 759 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,600 doping. And I backed the fact that like, 760 00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:48,400 that was a good question to ask in that time because we may 761 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,840 never get the opportunity to ask that question again. 762 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:54,480 The next time would be when she's at the London Marathon 763 00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:57,440 press conference and doing like maybe a little round table or 764 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,000 there's a there's a press conference before or after the 765 00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:04,160 race. These athletes, some of them in 766 00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:08,600 Kenya are just not accessible, you know, to the common person 767 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:10,320 for interviews and all that kind of stuff. 768 00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:14,680 And so we've actually never seen Ruth Chapin Gettich do an 769 00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,800 interview or any sort of media since that press conference. 770 00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,240 And so, yeah, I mean, I feel like we've, it would be very 771 00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:26,400 difficult to probably try and get Ruth Chapin Gettich aside to 772 00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:29,680 this whole entire thing. And that's why like the only 773 00:46:29,680 --> 00:46:33,840 time we're hearing her side is through, you know, these AIU 774 00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:36,680 reports where she says this or she gave this. 775 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:40,120 And then at the same time, some of that is pretty lawyered up as 776 00:46:40,120 --> 00:46:41,920 well at this point in in the case. 777 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:48,160 So that those are that's the latest big update on a crazy 778 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:51,960 case. Preet, any final thoughts on 779 00:46:51,960 --> 00:46:53,640 where you see this thing going or? 780 00:46:54,320 --> 00:46:56,040 Or your hopes for what comes next? 781 00:46:56,720 --> 00:46:59,600 Well, I mean, I think I want to remind people that I know people 782 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:01,680 will also say, oh, we should ban Kenya. 783 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:04,960 And I think the problem here is it still remains the same point 784 00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:08,480 that it's not the athletic, it's not Athletics Kenya or the 785 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,440 government of Kenya or what you know, that's not the, that was 786 00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:15,480 what the situation was with Russia where it was Russian 787 00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:19,240 state sponsored here. It is individuals within Kenya, 788 00:47:19,240 --> 00:47:23,160 granted, but it's not Athletics Kenya itself as far as we're 789 00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:25,200 aware. It's not, you know, the 790 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,200 government of Kenya. That's actually answering this 791 00:47:27,200 --> 00:47:29,480 and saying, oh, we want all our athletes to go and clean up the 792 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:31,280 medals. So we're gonna, we're gonna, 793 00:47:31,400 --> 00:47:33,720 we're gonna sort of sponsor doping to to get them there. 794 00:47:34,120 --> 00:47:39,320 But I did reach out to Athletics Kenya for a statement following 795 00:47:39,320 --> 00:47:43,320 this three-year suspension. And I know I don't do a whole 796 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:48,120 lot of journalism anymore, but I was just curious and I I want to 797 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:53,200 be able to share what I hear because they had such a staunch, 798 00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,720 harsh defense of her immediately after calling out the likes of 799 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,040 Robert Johnson and the General media, Andy Burfoot, all these 800 00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:05,560 people who who called BS on the performance right away, 801 00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:09,600 Athletics Kenya threw their weight behind Shep and Getich 802 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:13,360 and defended her. And so now what do you have to 803 00:48:13,360 --> 00:48:15,960 say? And I got back a message saying 804 00:48:15,960 --> 00:48:17,880 that they were focused on their cross country national 805 00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:21,840 championships this this weekend and there'd be a potential 806 00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,200 update at a later time. Fair enough. 807 00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:28,920 I mean, look, I, I think we've got to hope that this is a good. 808 00:48:29,560 --> 00:48:33,000 It's like when you catch someone as big as this, I think it's why 809 00:48:33,000 --> 00:48:34,760 they are you made such a big deal of it. 810 00:48:35,160 --> 00:48:38,880 It is trying to put the word out that no one is above it. 811 00:48:38,880 --> 00:48:41,400 No one is above being caught. We will catch you if you are 812 00:48:41,400 --> 00:48:44,360 doping. And I think that's important. 813 00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:47,440 Like within the Kenyan running circles, I think that if there 814 00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:50,760 are people doping that maybe they they all thinking about 815 00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:53,400 doping, they they think twice before they do it right. 816 00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,720 But at the same time, like it's always going to be a challenge. 817 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:59,000 There's language barriers in the doping education. 818 00:48:59,000 --> 00:49:01,760 There's kind of levels of education and literacy and all 819 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:03,720 of that because it you're a good runner. 820 00:49:03,720 --> 00:49:06,400 That doesn't necessarily mean you're you're an academic person 821 00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:09,560 or even that you could have come from, from quite an economically 822 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,720 kind of deprived background and, and running is what's getting 823 00:49:12,720 --> 00:49:14,640 you out of that. But but that doesn't necessarily 824 00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,680 mean that, you know, you're relying on people around you. 825 00:49:16,680 --> 00:49:19,400 So it's those people around the runners and stuff. 826 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:21,760 So there's a lot of complexity there. 827 00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:25,040 I don't think it's going to solve the problem, but it's good 828 00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:28,360 that something has happened here which might at least shake the 829 00:49:28,360 --> 00:49:30,760 tree a little bit. Yeah. 830 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,400 All right. Well, that was a little bit of a 831 00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:39,080 depressing bonus episode for the listeners because we have to 832 00:49:39,080 --> 00:49:40,440 continue to proceed. I mean, the New York City 833 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:41,960 Marathon is taking place next week. 834 00:49:41,960 --> 00:49:45,000 And, you know, if they do a graphic of like, here's the 835 00:49:45,000 --> 00:49:46,600 course record, here's the world record. 836 00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:50,200 The world record right now on the women's side is still two O 837 00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:55,080 956. And it will be that way until 838 00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:59,560 World Athletics says otherwise. So that's that. 839 00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,080 Thanks everyone for tuning in. We just kind of wanted to. 840 00:50:04,240 --> 00:50:08,680 Yeah, we know everyone's had thoughts about this positive 841 00:50:08,680 --> 00:50:10,680 test and we see it in our comments section. 842 00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:14,400 If you want to learn more about the case, read through the whole 843 00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:17,160 decision, catch the AIU press release. 844 00:50:17,160 --> 00:50:22,600 It's all linked within this article on citiusmag.com and on 845 00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,760 my Twitter page. There's, you know, the whole 846 00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:30,200 list of people who have served or are serving suspensions with 847 00:50:30,200 --> 00:50:33,600 ties to Federico Rosa that's been getting a lot of chatter on 848 00:50:33,600 --> 00:50:36,440 there. So the conversation continues 849 00:50:36,520 --> 00:50:41,960 and we will keep you guys posted with more next time, Preet next 850 00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:46,800 week, New York City Marathon preview, plus much more 851 00:50:46,800 --> 00:50:49,240 happening in the news that we can catch up on. 852 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,080 Absolutely look forward to. It. 853 00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:54,680 Thank you all for listening to this episode. 854 00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:56,720 This episode was produced by Jasmine Fair. 855 00:50:56,920 --> 00:50:59,600 I love doing this for you guys. So please do me a favor and 856 00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:02,880 leave a five star view on Apple Podcast or Spotify that helps us 857 00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,000 grow the show and get even more awesome guests. 858 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:07,040 Let me know what you're enjoying about the show. 859 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:09,520 Make sure you're subscribed or following on your favorite 860 00:51:09,520 --> 00:51:11,360 podcast. Players, please share this 861 00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,720 episode with your friends if you think that they'll get any value 862 00:51:13,720 --> 00:51:16,000 or inspiration out of it. Let's build this thing together. 863 00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:18,160 Visit citiusmag.com for a lot more. 864 00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:20,560 We've got a brand new website with tons more articles, videos 865 00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,960 and podcasts. As always, I love track and 866 00:51:22,960 --> 00:51:25,160 field. I'm Chris Chavez, see you next 867 00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:25,400 time.