1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,920 What's up everyone? You are listening to the CITIUS 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,120 MAG podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,480 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 4 00:00:07,720 --> 00:00:10,480 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,760 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,280 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 7 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,520 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,560 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,360 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,280 anywhere. Else. 11 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,880 So let's get into it, because we love track and field. 12 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,720 My guest for today's episode is Andreas Almgren, the newly 13 00:00:35,720 --> 00:00:39,880 minted European 10,000 meter champion and soon to be a first 14 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:43,000 time marathoner. On November 1st, he will run the 15 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:44,960 New York City Marathon for his debut. 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:48,360 At the distance. Let me put that recent European 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,960 Championship performance into context since it was very, very 18 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:55,160 impressive to watch. He broke a 48 year old 19 00:00:55,160 --> 00:00:58,720 championship record. The winning margin was insane. 20 00:00:58,760 --> 00:01:04,680 He ran the last 8800 meters at 237 pace front running into a 21 00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:07,560 headwind. He lapped all but six men in the 22 00:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,200 field and some of those only unlapped themselves as he was 23 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,920 slowing down towards the end. It was the first time that a 24 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,680 Swedish man had won a running event at the European 25 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:19,360 Championship since in 1962. He's been great on the track, 26 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:23,080 he's been great on the roads. He's set 4 European records 27 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:27,240 within the last 12 months, the 10K road record in Valencia in 28 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:32,760 January when he ran 2645 and put him at #6 on the world all time 29 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:37,120 list. He ran 5841 for 1/2 marathon 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:41,480 last October in Valencia, the first European to go under 59 31 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:43,640 minutes. He claimed a World Championship 32 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,800 bronze medal in Tokyo last September, where he finished 33 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:49,240 just .25 seconds off of a gold medal. 34 00:01:49,880 --> 00:01:55,080 He broke the 5000 meter European record in 1244 last outdoor 35 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:57,240 season. He's one of the best runners in 36 00:01:57,240 --> 00:02:00,040 the world right now. So a little bit of background 37 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:03,640 because now he's 31 years old. He grew up in Sweden playing 38 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:09,160 soccer for one of the biggest clubs out there and injuries 39 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:14,040 ended his soccer career path. So then he went on to win World 40 00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:20,080 U20 bronze in the 800 at the 2014 U20 World Championships 41 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:21,240 that took place in Eugene and he. 42 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,120 Looked like he was going to be. Sweden's next great medal 43 00:02:24,120 --> 00:02:26,600 distance runner. Unfortunately, he did have to 44 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,840 spend 4 years with stress fractures. 45 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:32,800 A broken navicular. More stress fractures, and he 46 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,600 could not stay healthy from 2016 all the way through 2019. 47 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:41,240 And so in 2019, he's sitting on a stationary bike rehabbing that 48 00:02:41,240 --> 00:02:44,880 sacral stress fracture. And he watched his friend Kalle 49 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,800 Berglund make a world championship 1500 meter final, 50 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:51,560 mostly using the double threshold training method. 51 00:02:51,560 --> 00:02:54,240 So Andreas decides that he's going to copy it. 52 00:02:54,480 --> 00:02:57,920 And ever since then, he's been going up in distance. 53 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:00,280 And every time he steps up, he's running faster. 54 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,720 So he's been working towards this marathon debut for quite 55 00:03:03,720 --> 00:03:06,000 some time. In this conversation, we dive 56 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,320 into why he picked New York over, say, Valencia, how his 57 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,280 double threshold system has evolved over the last seven 58 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,120 years, what it took to stay healthy this entire time, the 59 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,000 training that he's doing for the marathon right now, and so much 60 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,080 more. So without further ado, here is 61 00:03:21,200 --> 00:03:35,480 Andreas Almgren. All right, Andreas, 2 days ago 62 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:39,640 you announced November 1st you'll be doing your first 63 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,360 marathon. You've also got the World Road 64 00:03:43,360 --> 00:03:46,040 running Championships coming up in Copenhagen. 65 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:49,400 You're also coming off of the most dominant 10,000 meter 66 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,720 performance I think we've ever seen at the European 67 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:55,520 Championships. So how's it going? 68 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:57,360 How's everything? How's, how's everything? 69 00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,200 I guess back in Sweden a little bit of downtime before this next 70 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,080 training block or, or where are we at right now? 71 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:04,800 It's been intense this last week. 72 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:10,560 I had two pretty easy days after the tanky in in European 73 00:04:10,560 --> 00:04:13,440 Championships. But now I'm I'm back in a big 74 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,640 training block. I mean, it's only 11 weeks 75 00:04:16,640 --> 00:04:20,200 between the Europeans and New York Marathon, so I, I think I 76 00:04:20,200 --> 00:04:23,920 need to make the most of it. Yeah, the other guys have a 77 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:28,440 little bit longer marathon build, so I just got to jump 78 00:04:28,440 --> 00:04:31,160 right back into it. So I want to start, we're going 79 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:33,720 to jump all over the place because you've been up to so 80 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:37,960 much over the last year. But this decision to make your 81 00:04:37,960 --> 00:04:42,520 marathon debut this November, why is now I guess the the 82 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:45,800 perfect time that you've kind of concluded with you and your 83 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:47,880 coach? And then also the second part to 84 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:52,120 it is, why New York? So the first thing is that I'm 85 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,920 planning to, you know, do the full transition after Los 86 00:04:55,920 --> 00:05:02,840 Angeles, but I feel like I want to dip the toes in my toe in the 87 00:05:02,840 --> 00:05:08,320 water just to see how it feels. I mean, after Los Angeles, I'm 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:13,120 going to be 33, so I want to make sure that I get as smooth 89 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:17,120 of a transition as possible. So if I can get one or maybe 2 90 00:05:17,520 --> 00:05:21,320 marathon bills before it, I should be pretty confident on 91 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:26,360 how to do it in the future. So I started thinking about this 92 00:05:26,360 --> 00:05:31,400 actually last summer and I thought that 2026 would be a 93 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:35,840 good year to do it because we have the Europeans in August and 94 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:38,640 then I could get a pretty good build for one of the fall 95 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:44,200 marathons. But a few of them are too early. 96 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:49,280 And so basically it came down to if I wanted to do New York or 97 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:53,440 Valencia, I think those are like basically the two options. 98 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:59,920 And I just felt like I, I rather do a race than a time trial as 99 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:02,720 my first marathon. I think it's a lot a little bit 100 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:07,040 easier to come into it and not just like chasing a time, more 101 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,120 just chasing a win or a good place placing in that race. 102 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:17,080 So I actually went to New York during my offseason last year, 103 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:20,160 and I saw it like both as a holiday but also a little bit as 104 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,280 a field trip because I wanted to see how it was. 105 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:25,440 I actually was at the technical meeting the day before the race 106 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:28,160 to see like, how's the procedure and everything. 107 00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:30,840 And then obviously on race day, I got to feel the atmosphere. 108 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:32,680 And it's like, yeah, I want to do this. 109 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,160 It's so exciting. So where are we at right now in 110 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:38,200 terms of, you said 11 weeks to go until to the race? 111 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:42,920 So when did the the marathon specific training block start? 112 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:45,200 Because it does overlap obviously with Europeans which 113 00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:48,040 you were peeking for. The real blocks basically start 114 00:06:48,040 --> 00:06:52,160 after the Europeans. Yeah, but I'm a pretty high 115 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:56,080 mileage guy. So I think like mileage wise I 116 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,640 don't really have to do a big increase. 117 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:03,960 I mean, the three weeks after, after pre, I basically had two 118 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:08,440 100K weeks and then just, yeah, dropping down a little bit like 119 00:07:08,760 --> 00:07:12,240 100 and 81150 and then the race week for the Europeans. 120 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:17,960 So I don't really have to do a lot of like transition in that 121 00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:19,160 way. But it's a different type of 122 00:07:19,160 --> 00:07:21,400 training for sure. I need to, you know, get those 123 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:26,960 long runs in the LT1 work, the more LT2 work like for the 124 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,440 threshold bill for, for track season and the half marathon. 125 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:33,360 So it's it's going to be different, but I think I'm in a 126 00:07:33,360 --> 00:07:36,640 pretty good spot. When did your philosophy on long 127 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:38,560 runs change? Because if I remember a couple 128 00:07:38,560 --> 00:07:41,640 years ago right when you used to just think like I'm racing for 129 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:45,200 30 minutes at most, like I don't necessarily need to be, you 130 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,400 know, on a Saturday or Sunday, going out for all that long. 131 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:51,680 At some point it must have shifted because now you are up 132 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,760 to much higher mileage. Yeah, I mean, it's basically 133 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:58,720 like what gets the most bang for the buck? 134 00:07:59,080 --> 00:08:01,600 And I, I didn't really feel like I was in a position where I can 135 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:07,360 do like those long runs and get those like more higher speed 136 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:09,640 mileage with a double threshold and everything. 137 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,320 But I just, I felt like after last season I was in a better 138 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:16,320 spot. So then I could start increasing 139 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,720 and do 30K long runs and still feel fresh enough to do the 140 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,680 double thresholds, the hill work, the speed sessions and 141 00:08:23,680 --> 00:08:28,880 everything. So I think like, you can't do 142 00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:33,240 everything from start, you have to gradually, yeah, put in the 143 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:35,840 pieces. And yeah, now I thought that 144 00:08:35,840 --> 00:08:38,080 wasn't a good spot. I mean, the long runs are 145 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:40,799 important. I just felt like the other 146 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:44,000 things were more important at that part in my career. 147 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,640 What's the longest you've gone so far? 148 00:08:47,280 --> 00:08:54,280 Right now it's 33 Ki think it's gonna change to 35 K tomorrow 149 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,680 and then we're gonna gradually build up towards the marathon. 150 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:03,280 What's the most daunting part, I guess, or the, the part that you 151 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:05,920 are assessing is going to be the biggest learning curve for you. 152 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:09,320 So there's obviously venturing off into longer distances, 153 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:10,960 distances you have never covered before. 154 00:09:10,960 --> 00:09:14,000 But then also the the fuelling element is one of the biggest 155 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,840 things that I think a lot of people also, you know, need to 156 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:20,080 take some time to dial in. I've also thought a lot about 157 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,080 that. So I've tried to do as much of 158 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:28,160 like gut training a fueling training as possible during 159 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:29,360 basically the whole, the whole year. 160 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:33,240 So when I've been out for those 30K long runs, I've I've done 161 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,320 120 grams per hour on those. When I do threshold on 162 00:09:38,320 --> 00:09:42,320 treadmill, I make sure that that I drink during the reps, not 163 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:45,960 between the reps and everything and just train for that. 164 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:50,080 And now if I do like some track work, I make sure that I put up 165 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:53,720 a table so I can like train to grab the bottles, drink during 166 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,120 the run. And yeah, the fueling you need 167 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,160 to get right, but it's, it's one thing like if you do a workout 168 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:02,840 for one hour, I mean, that's one thing. 169 00:10:02,840 --> 00:10:07,880 But like getting down the bottle at the 35 and or 40K, that's a 170 00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:11,120 different thing. And you can't really know how 171 00:10:11,120 --> 00:10:14,240 you feel until you basically race the race. 172 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:17,360 So it's going to be a little bit daunting for sure. 173 00:10:17,920 --> 00:10:20,880 But I'm also I'm more excited than than scared about it. 174 00:10:22,040 --> 00:10:23,680 Some of your previous half marathons, right? 175 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:26,440 Because you're not out there for, you're out there for 58 176 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,680 minutes. Like how much fueling was taking 177 00:10:29,680 --> 00:10:32,120 place in some of those harder efforts that you've done over 178 00:10:32,120 --> 00:10:34,080 the half? For some guys, it's it's so 179 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,320 little, right? Yeah. 180 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,240 I mean, when I race, I don't do any fueling at all. 181 00:10:38,960 --> 00:10:43,360 I take a Gale like before, like right before the start, but 182 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:47,480 nothing during the race. And when I do like half marathon 183 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:51,520 prep work, I I I drink the Morton three 20s between the 184 00:10:51,520 --> 00:10:56,840 reps, but I haven't really trained to fuel during hard work 185 00:10:56,840 --> 00:11:01,320 else. But it's probably going to start 186 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:05,920 with it tomorrow because I have a pretty hard like 35K long run 187 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:10,760 with some efforts in it coming up tomorrow easing into like the 188 00:11:10,760 --> 00:11:12,920 more how the more marathon specific work. 189 00:11:12,920 --> 00:11:17,880 So after tomorrow, I'm going to be a little bit more sure I'm 190 00:11:17,880 --> 00:11:20,160 going to react. The course you're taking on, 191 00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:24,200 lots of hills, bridges, how are you going to, where are you? 192 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,480 I guess you, you mentioned before we started recording 193 00:11:26,520 --> 00:11:29,000 you're going to spend some time in Flagstaff, but how else I 194 00:11:29,000 --> 00:11:32,320 guess are you already simulating or is it right now just sort of 195 00:11:32,320 --> 00:11:35,600 building the fitness and then doing more specific coursework? 196 00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:40,000 No, I'm thinking about it from like right from start. 197 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:46,040 So when I do like my long runs and like marathon prep work, I'm 198 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,160 going to do it on yeah, on like tarmac or concrete and get 199 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,560 those, try to get those rolling heels in because I know that 200 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:56,280 that is that's the thing. They're going to kill you. 201 00:11:56,520 --> 00:12:00,080 Like make sure that you can handle not just the uphill, but 202 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:03,240 the downhill. Yeah, the downer parts with like 203 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:05,600 the eccentric work for your quads and everything. 204 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:11,880 It's there are a lot of guys have died in Central Park, so I 205 00:12:11,880 --> 00:12:13,520 need to make sure that I can handle it. 206 00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,000 Yeah, for sure. My colleague Kyle Merber was 207 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,120 looking at I guess the workouts that you did before Valencia. 208 00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:28,840 And so you did you know 3 by 5K at 144214251412 that was and 209 00:12:28,840 --> 00:12:35,800 then a week later you did do 4 by 5 K 143314311426 and then 210 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:41,160 closing in 1359. So is marathon training 5 by 5K8 211 00:12:41,160 --> 00:12:42,800 by 5K. What are you thinking there? 212 00:12:45,960 --> 00:12:49,680 I'm probably going to do some kind of 5K work, but it's going 213 00:12:49,680 --> 00:12:51,320 to be later when I'm more used to it. 214 00:12:53,480 --> 00:13:00,080 But it might be up to 5 or no, probably six, 7:00-ish, We'll 215 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,680 see. But it's going to be a lot of, 216 00:13:01,800 --> 00:13:05,120 you know, long runs with efforts in them or progressive long 217 00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:10,120 runs, maybe 1 long temper run to try to run a little bit fast 218 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:14,920 from the start. But that's a good thing with New 219 00:13:14,920 --> 00:13:20,320 York, like mostly it's I wouldn't say slow, but slow ish 220 00:13:20,320 --> 00:13:22,440 in the beginning. So you just need to make sure 221 00:13:22,440 --> 00:13:24,920 that you can run fast during the second-half. 222 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:27,480 So I think it's quite good to get those progressive long runs 223 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,840 and make sure that you you're not running on on a flat surface 224 00:13:32,280 --> 00:13:36,120 like you need to get those, those hills because if you're 225 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,080 not used to it, you we're going to like collapse mechanically. 226 00:13:40,520 --> 00:13:44,080 Yeah, One of the cool parts, I guess, when they do assemble 227 00:13:44,080 --> 00:13:47,040 these marathon fields is that you don't necessarily know in 228 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,320 the process, like who else is going to be in the field. 229 00:13:49,320 --> 00:13:51,880 And so when the announcement comes out, you see the full 230 00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,840 list, and so you know who you're going to be up against. 231 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,440 What was your reaction? I guess you probably assume 232 00:13:56,440 --> 00:13:58,960 Benson Caputo, he won last year. He'll probably be back. 233 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:02,200 The top Americans. It's usually that or Chicago's. 234 00:14:02,200 --> 00:14:04,720 So Nat, when you saw the full list, what did you think? 235 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:07,320 It's it's going to be a tough year. 236 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:11,560 I mean, like like like a top 10 to 15. 237 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,200 I think probably the best ever, maybe in New York. 238 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,280 I don't know. But it's like, well, you know, 239 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:20,880 knew before that, like let's call it like the four Dragons, 240 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:24,040 like Kielcha Sava Kipling, more career. 241 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:25,240 They were they weren't going to run. 242 00:14:27,320 --> 00:14:31,120 So you could kind of guess who were coming. 243 00:14:31,120 --> 00:14:33,800 I was a little bit surprised that they that taller wasn't in 244 00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,080 the list. I don't know where he's gone. 245 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:38,720 He's not been announced for any of. 246 00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:39,600 Those. No, I don't think so. 247 00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:43,440 Yeah. But I mean, it's going to be a 248 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:47,000 really great, great race. I think. 249 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:50,880 It's hard to tell. I feels like a lot of guys can 250 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:54,280 come top three and like miss top 15 at the same time. 251 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:57,240 It's like depends on who has the best day basically. 252 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,720 What did you make of his World Championships last year in 253 00:15:01,720 --> 00:15:03,520 Tokyo? You finished right behind Yomi 254 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:08,520 and then you go off and a couple months later you see what he 255 00:15:08,520 --> 00:15:11,760 does in London. Does any part of you, I guess, 256 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,480 like, how are you thinking track speed is translating to the 257 00:15:15,480 --> 00:15:17,400 marathon now? Because on the women's side, it 258 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,160 was pretty clear right? When you see the top performers 259 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:22,120 and the people who are setting these national records, world 260 00:15:22,120 --> 00:15:26,040 records, they all had some sort of track background like Sifan 261 00:15:26,040 --> 00:15:28,400 is on running really well in the 800. 262 00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,800 You add the Super shoes and the fueling and all that stuff. 263 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:34,440 Makes sense why she's run 213. Same thing. 264 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:38,200 Helen O'berry 215 Take us safe a 800 meter run her back in the 265 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:43,320 day 211 that on the men's side, it hasn't necessarily been a 266 00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,400 direct one for one on the track stars, you know, instantly 267 00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:51,240 having success in the marathon. So when you see Yomi's 268 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:53,720 performance, what does that do? I guess for your assessment of 269 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,960 like, hey, all right, like the track guys can run, you know, 270 00:15:58,120 --> 00:16:02,840 2O12 it's sub two like these fast times in the full distance. 271 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:06,280 It feels like you can't run a slow race. 272 00:16:06,680 --> 00:16:09,720 It's true. Like whatever he's doing, he's 273 00:16:09,720 --> 00:16:13,400 going to run fast. It's like 347 Miller and then 274 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,000 159 marathon. It's it's crazy. 275 00:16:17,320 --> 00:16:21,720 But yeah, I think like if you're just prepared for it, you're 276 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,760 going to run pretty well. And I mean, like a soldier. 277 00:16:25,760 --> 00:16:31,600 I do a lot of high mileage. I think I topped out at like 215 278 00:16:31,600 --> 00:16:33,880 K per week during my base training this year. 279 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:38,680 So and that's basically what a lot of marathon guys do. 280 00:16:40,080 --> 00:16:44,040 So I, I just think that you need to like see where, where are the 281 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:48,880 bottlenecks and then you have to try to widen them as much as 282 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,000 possible. And now for my card, now I'm in 283 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:58,160 the best 10K shape of my life. So like anaerobically and like 284 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:01,960 like the VO2 part, I'm probably one of the best. 285 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:05,079 Like I'm not in the marathon game yet, but I'm probably one 286 00:17:05,079 --> 00:17:08,079 of the best potential marathon in up in the marathon game. 287 00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,760 So I just need to make sure that I can get the durability 288 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,960 basically. And it's easier said than done, 289 00:17:16,240 --> 00:17:20,760 of course, but I think at least I have pretty good potential to 290 00:17:20,760 --> 00:17:26,400 run fast sometime in the future. This episode of the City of 291 00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:29,040 Smack podcast is supported by Vellus. 292 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:32,280 You know that walk back to your car after a long run? 293 00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,160 The one where every step feels like a negotiation? 294 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,840 That's exactly the moment VELOUS is built for. 295 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,160 VELOUS makes recovery footwear designed for runners, sandals 296 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,200 and slides that help your feet and legs bounce back faster 297 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,080 between sessions. 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We are so grateful for their 320 00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,120 continued support. That's vellasfootwear.com. 321 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:18,360 Code CITIUS MAG 20. SAW Wei, Charles Hicks. 322 00:19:18,360 --> 00:19:22,320 Everyone's preaching mileage and when you are one of the high 323 00:19:22,320 --> 00:19:25,040 mileage guys out there, I guess what's been the key to getting 324 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,360 the number up and then at the same time staying healthy? 325 00:19:27,360 --> 00:19:30,520 So like what are you doing in between the sessions for 326 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:35,320 recovery and then knowing I guess like what the cap is on a 327 00:19:35,320 --> 00:19:36,600 week? Yeah. 328 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,240 So for me, basically the thing has like my Achilles has always 329 00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:44,360 been the intensity. It's like I'm coming from 800 330 00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:49,120 meters and I got a lot of stress fractures and stress reactions 331 00:19:49,120 --> 00:19:50,760 when I did the 800 meter training. 332 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:53,840 I have a lot of questions about you as an 800m runner. 333 00:19:53,840 --> 00:19:57,640 We'll get to it in a bit. But when I started doing more 334 00:19:57,640 --> 00:20:00,720 high mileage thing, that's like it just worked for me. 335 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:04,480 I just need to make sure that I don't combine those two. 336 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,680 It's like I got a stress fracture before the Paris 337 00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,840 Olympics in 2024, and that was because I. 338 00:20:14,800 --> 00:20:18,400 I wasn't really fully like adapted to the track season. 339 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:21,520 I basically went straight from base training to racing. 340 00:20:21,520 --> 00:20:24,960 And then I would just like race every other week and be like a 341 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:28,440 5K in Stockholm 5K, also a 3K Stockholm Europeans championship 342 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:30,160 through 10K. And then I got a stress fracture 343 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:33,840 before the Olympics. So I just need to make sure that 344 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,600 I don't combine the mileage with the intensity. 345 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,680 And then usually I stay healthy, knock on wood. 346 00:20:42,840 --> 00:20:49,320 But then like you get older, you generally just feel what's what 347 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:53,720 you can handle. And I'm, I'm have a lot easier 348 00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:56,240 nowadays to say I need a rest day. 349 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,840 If I, and if I start to feel like a small niggle or small 350 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:03,400 sensation that something's wrong, I basically just stop 351 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,720 right away and take two or three days off to make sure that I get 352 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,480 rid of that thing. So like I, I ran started this 353 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:15,960 season with a 726 3K in in China. 354 00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:21,560 Like 2 weeks before that I had started to feel some hamstring 355 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:26,320 issues after a threshold. And I just like, OK, I'm going 356 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,160 to skip the afternoon threshold. I'm going to take two rest days. 357 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,160 And then on Sunday I was back doing a long run, couldn't then 358 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,720 obviously I had some treatment, massage, everything in between 359 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,600 and then I can do my long run. And then I was just back at it. 360 00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:44,480 But like five years ago, I would probably have continued and then 361 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,080 you, I run with pain for 10 days and then it's like, OK, now 362 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,120 something's broke and I'm going to have to rest for six weeks. 363 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:56,280 So basically just have to learn. Yeah, for you, I guess because 364 00:21:56,280 --> 00:22:00,400 of the injury history, like do you have a particular code you 365 00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:03,320 abide by when it comes to just sort of what you're doing in 366 00:22:03,320 --> 00:22:06,720 what shoes or are you like, you know, how much work are you 367 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,280 doing in super shoes versus trainer? 368 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:12,040 And I I mean for parts of the year, you're on the treadmill a 369 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:15,760 lot too. Yeah, basically on treadmill all 370 00:22:15,760 --> 00:22:21,200 throughout the year, there's like when I'm, I'm quite far out 371 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:25,200 from track season, I usually do the morning thresholds in normal 372 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:29,560 shoes because I want my calves to stay a little bit more active 373 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:34,000 during racing season or track season. 374 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:37,960 I do it more in super shoes because I feel like that saves 375 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:41,240 my save my calves a little bit when I do a lot of spike work on 376 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,160 track. But I think it's very important 377 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,640 nowadays to make sure that you do get like the lower leg 378 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,520 strength because it feels like you're not really that active 379 00:22:52,400 --> 00:22:55,600 with your calves and everything anymore. 380 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:59,680 So yeah, I do a lot of work between the workouts to make 381 00:22:59,680 --> 00:23:04,920 sure that I, well, still like feel active down there 382 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,400 basically. How much between now and 383 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:09,360 November? You still going to get into 384 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,640 spikes here and there or no? Not as much. 385 00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:16,280 No, I have to do a little bit of spike work now because like in 386 00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:19,560 Sweden, like every year we have this thing like a match between 387 00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:21,280 Sweden and Finland. Yeah. 388 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:23,400 Yeah, yeah. So I have to do that. 389 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,640 So I need to make sure that I do a little bit of spike work just 390 00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,640 to make sure that I can get through that race. 391 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,640 But after you have one more track race, no more Diamond 392 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,680 leagues or anything like that, Yeah, just a smaller one. 393 00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:38,640 Right. I wouldn't call it a track race, 394 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:43,720 OK, it is a race. I need some track, but I won't 395 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:49,720 really race it. But but yeah, so that's the only 396 00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:51,160 thing I'm not doing any more Diamond leaks. 397 00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:55,720 I always have this in my mind. So I raced quite a lot in the 398 00:23:55,720 --> 00:23:58,320 beginning of the season. So I've already done 6 Diamond 399 00:23:58,320 --> 00:24:01,960 leaks this year and I think that's that's quite enough. 400 00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,600 Yeah, why? Why no 5K at the Ultimate 401 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,160 Championships? And then assume it like if this 402 00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,640 would have been a traditional world championship year with a 403 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:15,720 10K, would it have changed your decision to chase a gold medal 404 00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,840 on the track versus the marathon debut? 405 00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:24,560 No, it's like if it was like a normal track with World, normal 406 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:28,080 season with Worlds, it would probably be in September and 407 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,920 then I might have done go for Valencia or something if I want 408 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:37,360 to do a marathon because I feel like track is where my heart is 409 00:24:37,360 --> 00:24:41,400 still. Then there's like what I still 410 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:46,320 think for for next year, next year, the 10K in Beijing is 411 00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:48,280 going to be the most important race of the year. 412 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,360 So it wouldn't change anything. And then like with with 413 00:24:52,360 --> 00:24:55,520 Ultimates, I mean, it doesn't have 10K, it's just 5K. 414 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,000 And it's going to be like probably a tactical championship 415 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,000 race. And then you get, I mean, Jacob 416 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,000 has a month more to prepare himself. 417 00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,120 Cole's going to be there. It's like, yeah, I don't really, 418 00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:11,600 really like to run those type of races. 419 00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,560 Yeah, because I guess like you said right after Tokyo that it 420 00:25:15,560 --> 00:25:18,600 was, you know, two other guys had a better kick than you. 421 00:25:18,840 --> 00:25:23,240 And then when we kind of think of how New York is run and, and 422 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,120 one in, in Birmingham, you didn't leave it to a kick. 423 00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:27,880 You made it hard for everyone else. 424 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:29,200 So there was no kick needed there. 425 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:33,160 But the way New York is also run, for the most part, they get 426 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,960 to about 16 miles on that Queensboro Bridge. 427 00:25:36,240 --> 00:25:39,640 That's when they start to make moves up 1st Ave. 428 00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:43,160 And then it's a battle of attrition and some sort of kick 429 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,720 in Central Park for whatever people have left, I guess. 430 00:25:47,480 --> 00:25:51,720 How are you thinking of that kick still being there in a way 431 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,520 for for the marathon and has it improved? 432 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:58,280 Did you find that in the races so far this year that kick did 433 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,880 improve from Tokyo? Yeah, I, I feel like I'm better 434 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,440 at least like this in this spring. 435 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:09,040 I feel like I was better than I was in the spring last year. 436 00:26:10,040 --> 00:26:16,520 But then going into the European Championship, I, I just said 437 00:26:16,520 --> 00:26:18,320 like I'm not going to make this a kick race. 438 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:23,160 So I prepared for a hard race like right after pre. 439 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:27,320 So like all my prep I didn't do kick training basically I just 440 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:29,240 made sure that I was as strong as possible. 441 00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:34,440 Like in 10K and 5K. My original plan wasn't to go 442 00:26:34,480 --> 00:26:37,040 that early. My original plan was to take it 443 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,040 on after like 13 laps or something. 444 00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:46,080 So I went a bit too early, but I just, I just trained to make 445 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:50,280 sure I was so strong and to make sure it wasn't just a Sprint 446 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,800 kick in the end. And for New York, I mean, it's 447 00:26:54,800 --> 00:27:00,320 impossible to say if I can kick. I mean, I would say I had the 448 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,360 potential to be the best kicker in that field. 449 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:08,480 But it's like after one hour and like 50 minutes, I could be 450 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:12,120 completely broken down maybe. It's so hard to say. 451 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:20,520 I mean, coming into Valencia, the half marathon last year, I 452 00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:29,360 mean I felt very good at around 16 K and we were three guys 453 00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:35,040 coming in like kicking for 2nd place and in the end of that 454 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,040 race I just couldn't get the Sprint kick going. 455 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,000 So it's quite hard to say how your body's going to react, but 456 00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:46,040 I don't think I'm going to lose that cake. 457 00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:50,680 It's just basically like, will I be able to run fast after so 458 00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:53,200 much running? What did the race in Birmingham 459 00:27:53,200 --> 00:27:56,520 tell you? I guess in terms of the fitness 460 00:27:56,520 --> 00:27:58,760 you, you've said multiple times that you believe you're in the 461 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:04,400 best 10K fitness of your of your life, although those last 800 462 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,520 meters K were pretty hard, I guess and in terms of difficulty 463 00:28:08,520 --> 00:28:11,440 in Birmingham, but like what did, what did the did the 464 00:28:11,440 --> 00:28:13,520 performance validate that belief? 465 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:17,840 Yeah, for sure. I mean, like the last four laps 466 00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:20,600 I slowed down and it was that's because I I was kind of in 467 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,960 unknown territory. I felt tired and then just 468 00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,760 wanted to make sure that I made it to the finish line. 469 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:31,840 I think like if I really needed to go for it, I could probably 470 00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,960 have run a couple of second faster that has four laps. 471 00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:42,080 I mean, I read somewhere that when I took over from three 472 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:51,280 laps, I ran the last 8800 meters in a pace that equal to 2637 for 473 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:54,080 10K. And I did that like in front 474 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:58,400 running and it was quite some wind on the back straight. 475 00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,240 And I think some of the triple jumpers had like above 3 meters 476 00:29:03,240 --> 00:29:08,240 per second in their jumps. So I think like with wave lights 477 00:29:08,240 --> 00:29:11,720 and good Pacers, I could probably be in sub 2630 shape. 478 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:17,080 So yeah, like fitness wise, I'm extremely strong. 479 00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,680 I did some workouts ahead of Europeans and I was like, yeah, 480 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:26,400 yeah, I'm strong now. So yeah, confidence wise, I'm in 481 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,600 a very good spot right now. I was listening to Ross Tucker 482 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,000 on the Real Science of Sport podcast and he was saying like 483 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:37,800 he was kind of confused as to why not just go, you know, it's 484 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:41,280 stage of 10K world record attempt or something like that. 485 00:29:41,280 --> 00:29:44,560 This, you know, in the coming off of this performance, it just 486 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,120 feels like 1. I think people forget how fast 487 00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,960 the record is now with chapter Guy and then two, it requires a 488 00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,000 lot of a lot more pieces than just going out there and running 489 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:58,400 right. It's the pacemaking, the finding 490 00:29:58,400 --> 00:29:59,840 the perfect condition. So they guess. 491 00:30:00,560 --> 00:30:03,920 What are your thoughts on like that route and what did you ever 492 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,440 I think consider it seeing everything in training? 493 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:10,160 No, not really do it that way. If it was something that I would 494 00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:12,800 just continue the normal track season with the diamond leagues 495 00:30:12,800 --> 00:30:17,080 and and ultimates. I mean, I don't really like 496 00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:25,800 those just pure record runs. I like racing more and I say 497 00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:31,040 it's a quite tough like mentally to recharge after that EUR 498 00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:32,920 because like that's the thing I've been targeting the whole 499 00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:37,560 year. So do that race, then you need 500 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,960 something special to like trigger that motivation again. 501 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,960 And like New York has been something that could do that. 502 00:30:45,040 --> 00:30:49,080 I'm more excited to do that than continue with the normal track 503 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:53,200 season. But my plan is to obviously 504 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:58,640 first stay healthy. But then next year, yeah, try to 505 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,560 either like arrange something or just find a race where you can 506 00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,400 run really fast. Because I'm thinking like next 507 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:09,280 year is going to be like a normal track year. 508 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,560 And then 2028, we have the Olympics coming in very early in 509 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:18,680 the season. It's like middle of July, so in 510 00:31:18,680 --> 00:31:23,200 my mind, 2027 is going to be like the season where I set my 511 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,720 personal records. That's going to stand after my 512 00:31:25,720 --> 00:31:28,240 career, basically, yeah. Next year I hope to run some 513 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,240 really fast races on the track. Who do you need in in some of 514 00:31:31,240 --> 00:31:33,360 those races? Because the the tricky part with 515 00:31:33,360 --> 00:31:35,960 the 10K especially is right is like when someone reaches a 516 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,080 certain level and then they go taste the marathon, it's like, 517 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,200 all right, well, it's just going to be the marathon from here on 518 00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,840 out. Like Chuck, the guy came, didn't 519 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,400 come back right. And it for for last year's 520 00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:50,120 championships. So open invitation for that 521 00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,760 race. Do you want, you know, Grant 522 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:57,200 there, Burrihu Arigawi, like who, who else do you think you 523 00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,840 would want to push you, I guess in a, in a, in a performance 524 00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:01,280 like that? All of them. 525 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,840 Yeah, yeah, I. Mean like, if we could have a 526 00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:07,920 race with all the best guys, that would be quite amazing. 527 00:32:08,200 --> 00:32:11,520 It's hard to say. It's like it takes so much out 528 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:15,720 of you to just like target the 10,000 media race on a track. 529 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,760 It's not like everyone wants to do that. 530 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:21,200 Basically most of the guys just want to run maybe a Tinky race 531 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:24,040 on the on the roads and then qualify for the championships 532 00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:26,040 and then went for wait, wait for it. 533 00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,840 But I mean, grants would be awesome to have there. 534 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:38,280 Of course. Like obviously now Jimmy has 535 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,480 left the track. He would be amazing to have in 536 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:45,840 those type of races. A couple of years ago Kaplimu 537 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:50,720 would have been a perfect guy. Don't really know what's 538 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:52,760 happened with Ari Garvey, haven't seen him the whole. 539 00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:53,800 Year. Yeah, I haven't seen him either. 540 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:58,600 But it's obviously a guy who can can be up there just around like 541 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:04,920 2630. So, but I mean The thing is like 542 00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,600 if you want to chase the fast Times Now, the thing you need a 543 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:12,600 good pacer, someone who can take you quite far and then you have 544 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:16,200 the wave lights. I think I've proven myself that 545 00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:20,640 when I want, I can be pretty good front runner both here and 546 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:23,640 then when I broke the European fight record last year. 547 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,680 So if we can get a decent pacer and then wave lights in good 548 00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,920 conditions, I think that could yeah be pre like good enough. 549 00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,000 Sounds like you got to come to California in March for when 550 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,640 they do that, that 10K race, it's it's like maybe the second 551 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,640 fastest or fastest 10K race of the year typically. 552 00:33:44,320 --> 00:33:47,960 Yeah, I mean, it's definitely something that I thought about, 553 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,400 but we'll see. It's like now I'm going to 554 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,880 finish this like this season and then I'm going to start to start 555 00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:57,560 focusing on and start planning for the next one. 556 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:01,640 My colleague Kyle, you know, has a stint argument that basically 557 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:05,600 every distance runner should move up in distance sooner than 558 00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:07,720 they do. Everyone sits at the same 559 00:34:07,720 --> 00:34:11,600 distance for years and then they start to get diminishing returns 560 00:34:11,639 --> 00:34:15,480 and then they move up eventually when it's when it's too lace. 561 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:21,000 But you're like a really good case study for moving up on 562 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:23,920 time. And when we go back all those 563 00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:28,199 years and you ran 1:45 at 19 years old, yes, you did get sort 564 00:34:28,199 --> 00:34:30,760 of injured. But when you finally moved up, I 565 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:34,480 guess like, what were the signs you looked at that said, OK, 566 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:37,199 this is going to be like we, we, we do have to move up in 567 00:34:37,199 --> 00:34:39,120 distance. I obviously had a lot of 568 00:34:39,120 --> 00:34:41,960 injuries after those first 800m years. 569 00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:52,440 Then in 2019 I was in Sweden during the Doha champions World 570 00:34:52,440 --> 00:34:55,800 champs and I had a sacral stress fracture. 571 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:01,640 And then I saw my friend Caliberland, Swedish 1500m 572 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:07,640 runner, made it make it to the 1500 meter final and he had 573 00:35:07,680 --> 00:35:12,440 started training like the Norwegians basically and done it 574 00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:16,040 for about one 1 1/2 years. And at that moment I was like, 575 00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:18,920 OK, it worked for him, maybe I should try it. 576 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:26,480 So when I got rid of that injury and started training, I, yeah, 577 00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,320 felt we got like big returns quite instantly. 578 00:35:31,040 --> 00:35:33,400 And then for the indoor season, I decided like, OK, I'm not 579 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,080 going to run indoors. I'm just going to run our 580 00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:38,040 nationals. And since I'm doing base 581 00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,880 training, I'm going to try to run the 3K because that's 582 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:44,920 probably where I'm at right now. And then in my first 3K race 583 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:49,240 ever, I broke our Swedish national record and I was like, 584 00:35:49,240 --> 00:35:51,320 OK, maybe this is something for me. 585 00:35:53,320 --> 00:35:55,000 So, yeah. And then I continued to run the 586 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,960 3K and it went very well. And it's like, OK, I run well in 587 00:35:57,960 --> 00:35:59,640 the 3K, then I should try the 5K. 588 00:36:01,240 --> 00:36:07,280 And then I I finished fourth at the Europeans, got accepted for 589 00:36:07,280 --> 00:36:11,120 my first Diamond League race and I ran 13 O one that first quick 590 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,520 race. And I was like OK, yeah, this 591 00:36:13,520 --> 00:36:18,920 works well for me. Like 2 years later I was like 592 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:23,760 OK, I should maybe try a 10K road race during the base 593 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:27,520 training and I ran 2720 for that one. 594 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,120 Then it's like OK, I'm going to run the 10 now to see where I'm 595 00:36:32,120 --> 00:36:34,960 at. And then 265052 in that race was 596 00:36:34,960 --> 00:36:38,600 like, just try to step up and it's always works. 597 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,800 So that's the thing with the marathon. 598 00:36:40,800 --> 00:36:43,360 It's like, well, it worked well in the in the past. 599 00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:44,960 I should just try to see what happens. 600 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:47,600 Worst case scenarios. I I run slow. 601 00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:54,240 Well, well, well, about time for a refreshing twist. 602 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:58,400 The Sidious Mag podcast is brought to you by OLIPOP and for 603 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,320 your entertainment I'll be doing some OLIPOP ASMR. 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You would. 626 00:38:33,640 --> 00:38:35,680 You'd be maybe a 142 guy right now. 627 00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:41,160 Yeah, well, I would have been still like a 145 guy, just not 628 00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,600 really gets get better. And I would just, yeah, like 629 00:38:44,600 --> 00:38:48,280 Kyle says, stay with a sad will just stay with a wrong distance 630 00:38:48,280 --> 00:38:51,360 for for too long. It's hard to say. 631 00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:55,160 It's like in my mind, I think just like, OK, I got 145 and got 632 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:56,760 the bronze medal at the World Juniors. 633 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,920 I should have just started with doing double thresholds at that 634 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:02,280 point and then I could maybe run a really fast 1500. 635 00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,400 All right, if there's a 1500 meter guy out there right now 636 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,920 listening to this and he's been running consistently three 34335 637 00:39:12,080 --> 00:39:16,080 nowadays, like that's not getting you an invite into too 638 00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:18,200 many Diamond League races or anything like that. 639 00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:23,440 So what what are the tells in training or something that says 640 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:26,800 OK it's let's try the 5K at least. 641 00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,880 I mean, to be a really good 50 nanometer runner, you'd need to 642 00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:37,160 be fast. I mean, like a lot of guys say 643 00:39:37,160 --> 00:39:40,360 I'm not that fast, but they are just they are lying. 644 00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:42,000 They're still, they're still fast. 645 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:49,400 So I mean, if you feel if you know, there's like threshold or 646 00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,720 just like the aerobic endurance part, it's like your strongest 647 00:39:52,720 --> 00:39:57,320 suit and you still only around 334, then I think it's the sign 648 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:00,040 that you should try to to move upwards. 649 00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,400 But it's not that easy because like 5K it's is a difficult 650 00:40:04,400 --> 00:40:07,360 event. You really need to learn to run 651 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,200 it because it's painful for so long. 652 00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:17,680 When you really go for a fast time, it's, yeah, it's extreme. 653 00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:19,640 I see. I think you kind of need to 654 00:40:19,640 --> 00:40:23,720 learn how to run it. But that's also like the thing 655 00:40:23,720 --> 00:40:29,320 with double threshold and that kind of system, it's like, first 656 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:31,640 of all, it's not just doing double threshold and you're 657 00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,520 becoming fast. That that's like builds the 658 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:37,400 foundation to be able to do the thing that actually makes you 659 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,360 run fast in events. And also it takes some time. 660 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:47,440 I mean, I, I did double threshold since end of 2019 and 661 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:51,640 it's where it was really in like 2024 where I got my real 662 00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:55,120 breakthrough. I ran, I ran well in 23 and 22, 663 00:40:55,120 --> 00:41:00,000 but it's like just made it out. I just missed the World 664 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:04,680 Championship final in, in 23. So it's like at that level I was 665 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:06,760 at. But after that I started to 666 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:13,000 like, yeah, really improve. So you you have to stick with it 667 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,760 for quite some time. Yeah. 668 00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,640 All right. So if we we go back to 2019 and 669 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:19,560 and that time period where you're starting to 'cause you've 670 00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:23,080 been with with your same coach forever the whole entire time 671 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,960 double threshold Norwegian method that got popularized. 672 00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:31,640 You know around the time you're coming back from this injury. 673 00:41:32,440 --> 00:41:36,240 Now that we're in 2026 and you, you know, have the gains from 674 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:40,480 applying that into your training, if we look at how you 675 00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:44,480 operate, you know, every every week or looking at a month of 676 00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,160 your training, how different is it from, I guess when you first 677 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,000 started doing double threshold in training and like what are 678 00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:54,680 the modifications you made? So now it's not the Norwegian 679 00:41:54,680 --> 00:41:56,160 method. If we're looking at the Omgrin 680 00:41:56,160 --> 00:42:01,280 method, how different is it now? So first, first of all, I I run 681 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:05,640 a lot more now. When I started doing it, I think 682 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:11,240 I averaged maybe 145 K, topped out at like 160 or something, 683 00:42:12,480 --> 00:42:16,840 and now it's above 200 K during a base training, base training 684 00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:22,960 week. Then like previously I aimed 685 00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:27,680 more for like 2.53 point 5, but now I try to do a little bit 686 00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:31,560 lower just to make sure I have some extra margins like of 687 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:39,200 safety but I run longer thresholds like work. 688 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:48,360 Else though I started doing like 5 by 5 minutes basically when I 689 00:42:48,360 --> 00:42:50,840 started doing double threshold in the morning and now I do 6 by 690 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:55,440 6 minutes or sometimes even up to like 6 by 7 minutes or 691 00:42:55,760 --> 00:43:01,720 something. Then like in the afternoon I 692 00:43:01,720 --> 00:43:07,680 usually do like K repeats and do like 12 by 1K instead of 8 by 693 00:43:07,680 --> 00:43:11,640 1K. When I started and also 694 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:16,800 previously I did 4 hundreds but now I've stepped up to do 5 695 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,640 hundreds because I want, I want that like shorter threshold 696 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,400 workout to be more like 10K pace. 697 00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,360 And I felt like I got a bit too good at it so I ran too fast on 698 00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:31,760 my 4 hundreds. So then I just started doing 5 699 00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:37,680 hundreds instead. But also I do like a lot more of 700 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:42,600 the things on the side like pre AB work, strength work, drills, 701 00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:47,160 strides, everything. It was like actually up until 702 00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,000 like 2 years ago, I both started at university and worked part 703 00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,400 time. So it wasn't until like 2 years 704 00:43:54,400 --> 00:43:58,240 ago when I like finally became fully professional and got the 705 00:43:58,240 --> 00:44:00,560 time to do everything that I need. 706 00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,920 You're a risk analyst, right? At first I was a risk analyst at 707 00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,680 a financial company and also then like a data scientist that 708 00:44:09,680 --> 00:44:15,760 has sportec company. So I'm a few courses shy of 709 00:44:15,840 --> 00:44:18,480 having a master's degree in applied mathematics. 710 00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:24,880 So with risk analysis, you're modeling the probability of, of 711 00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,680 bad outcomes. So when you're running a race, 712 00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:32,560 do you run in your head thinking of whatever the risk model is of 713 00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:34,600 the of the pace and, and all that kind of stuff? 714 00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:38,800 Yeah, kind of. It's like 8 or 9 laps in or 715 00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:41,640 something in the euro. So I was like, what the fuck 716 00:44:41,640 --> 00:44:44,360 have I done? Yeah, yeah, I was like, OK, I, 717 00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:48,840 I, I ruined everything. This was like, OK, it's still a, 718 00:44:48,880 --> 00:44:50,800 it's a high risk, but it's still a high rewards. 719 00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:52,160 I just going to have to keep doing this. 720 00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:55,120 But it's like, yeah, you're doing a lot of risk analysis, 721 00:44:55,800 --> 00:45:01,680 like a lot of time, of course. With you and your coach having 722 00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,320 this long standing relationship and then just sort of the 723 00:45:04,320 --> 00:45:08,160 different training adaptations, I guess like what, how, how, how 724 00:45:08,160 --> 00:45:11,960 active is he in in modeling? I guess some of the training 725 00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,240 because you also, I think just write a lot of it yourself too, 726 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:18,560 right? Yeah, I mean, like for the last 727 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,800 years it's basically been me, like I I basically write my own 728 00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,320 program and then I discuss some parts with him. 729 00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,920 Dream base training is like basically the same like week, 730 00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:35,800 week after week. So you don't have to do a lot of 731 00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:38,920 like adaptations or alterations there. 732 00:45:40,120 --> 00:45:43,600 But then may more coming on into racing season, we'll have a 733 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:47,400 little bit more discussing discussions about what to do. 734 00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:52,320 But like in the end, I do the planning and decide the 735 00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:56,600 workouts. And if we disagree about 736 00:45:56,600 --> 00:45:59,680 something, then it's like, oh, like in the end, you know your 737 00:45:59,680 --> 00:46:02,400 body the best. So we'll do that. 738 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:06,360 And like, a lot of his work is to make sure I don't do too 739 00:46:06,360 --> 00:46:11,120 much, just like be kind of like a devil's advocate and make sure 740 00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,200 that I have to really like argue and motivate. 741 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,000 Why do I need to do this? And if I can't explain it well 742 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:20,360 enough, then it's maybe not the best idea. 743 00:46:20,920 --> 00:46:24,400 All right, what's 1 workout or run that he's talked to you out 744 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,720 of like that you had in mind? You're like, I want to do this. 745 00:46:27,720 --> 00:46:29,320 And he's like, no, no, no, that's a bad idea. 746 00:46:30,640 --> 00:46:35,160 No, it's like a lot before, like Tokyo last year, we did a lot 747 00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,080 of, you know, because in the heat and everything, you know 748 00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,160 that it was going to be a slow race and a Sprint finish. 749 00:46:42,800 --> 00:46:46,280 But those like kick training, like change of pace and 750 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,200 everything that takes a lot out of you. 751 00:46:48,960 --> 00:46:53,320 So sometimes it's like, do you really think that we need to do 752 00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,160 this last Rep? And then I'm like, no, we've 753 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:02,000 done enough probably. So it's my like makes me 754 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:07,640 question during, during the workouts because then I was 755 00:47:08,280 --> 00:47:11,240 going to finish like with, I don't know, maybe a 400 or 756 00:47:11,240 --> 00:47:15,440 something with a lot of change of pace and then did probably 757 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:21,360 like 8K or track work ahead of that. 758 00:47:21,360 --> 00:47:24,120 And like four of those were with like quite fast. 759 00:47:25,080 --> 00:47:26,960 Yeah. When you're devising your own 760 00:47:26,960 --> 00:47:28,440 training. Where are you? 761 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,600 Looking for like references on like, I think that this would 762 00:47:31,600 --> 00:47:35,960 be, you know, a good training stimulus for this or like, is it 763 00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:39,720 just because now you've been, you've mapped out the last eight 764 00:47:39,720 --> 00:47:41,640 years, you have so much to pull from? 765 00:47:42,360 --> 00:47:47,520 Yeah, basically I know what have what has worked very well for me 766 00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:51,480 previously. And then I just think about like 767 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:55,840 the races and just try to see what what are the bottlenecks 768 00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:59,920 and how do I think that this race is going to pan out and how 769 00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,360 can I prepare for it in the best way like thinking of like the 770 00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:09,920 Europeans now we had this racing season, yeah, with a lot of 771 00:48:09,920 --> 00:48:12,720 races. So around the three K 5K in 772 00:48:12,720 --> 00:48:17,760 China, then 1500 in Stockholm, 5K Oslo, 5K Paris, and then two 773 00:48:17,760 --> 00:48:23,440 mile in Eugene. So I know like those 5K efforts, 774 00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:29,120 I was like I was really good at it and I done a lot of overspeed 775 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,400 as well. So then coming into the block 776 00:48:32,480 --> 00:48:35,800 heading into to Euros and I felt like, OK, I really need to build 777 00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,640 the tanky strength again. So then we had like a 10 week, a 778 00:48:40,720 --> 00:48:45,840 three-week block of like high mileage, some threshold, 779 00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:50,760 threshold plus, and like hard workouts per week and make sure 780 00:48:50,840 --> 00:48:57,800 that it was a lot in 10K pace. So when I did that threshold, it 781 00:48:57,800 --> 00:49:03,520 was 5 hundreds because then I could, yeah, hit it with, yeah, 782 00:49:03,680 --> 00:49:05,840 10K pace. When I did the threshold plus, I 783 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,400 did like 1 case because then I hit like the rate intensity and 784 00:49:10,400 --> 00:49:14,480 then I start to work out to train a little bit other systems 785 00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,360 basically. And then the last few weeks 786 00:49:18,360 --> 00:49:20,800 heading into the championship, I was planning in my mind like OK, 787 00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:26,440 I'm going to go after 5K. Then I should be like build 788 00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:30,280 workouts where I run progressively to make sure that 789 00:49:30,960 --> 00:49:35,200 I can run really fast when I'm real like somewhat fatigued. 790 00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:42,040 So then I could do like 5 by 2K whenever 2K Rep was faster and 791 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:46,680 something and stuff like that. It's not like something 792 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,080 revolutionary, it's just logical. 793 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:55,840 All right, so as you're not in the Ultimate Championships 5K, 794 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:59,680 as someone who's been in these high level races, give me your 795 00:49:59,680 --> 00:50:01,440 thoughts on like how you think that race plays out. 796 00:50:01,440 --> 00:50:04,640 I guess like we still have some extra data points that we we 797 00:50:04,640 --> 00:50:07,120 still haven't seen like what how Jacob and Cole are going to do 798 00:50:07,120 --> 00:50:10,120 in these 15 hundreds. But as of right now, like based 799 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,400 on what you've seen in some of these early races, how do you 800 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,160 see that one shaking on? I was really surprised that 801 00:50:16,160 --> 00:50:21,000 Jacob was back in that shape because what I've heard, he's 802 00:50:21,000 --> 00:50:22,880 not been like in the best training shape. 803 00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:26,560 So it's going to be very exciting to see like he gets a 804 00:50:26,560 --> 00:50:32,280 month extra training. I mean, obviously I, I know him, 805 00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,960 I train a bit with him, so I'm rooting for him. 806 00:50:35,520 --> 00:50:37,680 Yeah. Yeah. 807 00:50:37,680 --> 00:50:41,080 No, it's 5K. Is it before or after the 1500? 808 00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,200 I think hi, that's a good question. 809 00:50:43,200 --> 00:50:45,680 I think it's. I think it might be before. 810 00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,680 Yeah. So then Cole will be fresh. 811 00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:55,360 Yeah, it's going to be interesting because like, yeah, 812 00:50:55,720 --> 00:50:59,480 as you know, with Cole having the injuries like in the spring, 813 00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:03,680 wasn't really at his best in the first time league. 814 00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,040 But now he's had a whole summer to regain his fitness and it 815 00:51:07,040 --> 00:51:10,440 looks like he's, it seems like he's back in really good shape 816 00:51:10,440 --> 00:51:15,360 now. I mean, his last lap in in 817 00:51:15,360 --> 00:51:19,680 Tokyo, it was was insane. So I think it's going to be 818 00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:21,840 quite hard to beat if he's in that shape. 819 00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:26,760 But if Jacob could get close to what he was in where he was in 820 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:32,080 2024 and beginning of 2025, then then I think he is the best. 821 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:37,680 I mean, when I trained with him in Sierra Nevada in January, 822 00:51:37,840 --> 00:51:41,560 February 2025, it was, it was crazy. 823 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:45,640 I just checked the schedule and yeah, the, the 5K is first. 824 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:48,320 So everyone will be, will be fresh for it. 825 00:51:48,320 --> 00:51:50,120 And it's, it's kind of funny because I think a couple of 826 00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:52,800 years ago you said, I think if you could have one fantasy 827 00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:54,880 training partner, it would have been Mo Farah. 828 00:51:54,880 --> 00:51:57,160 And thinking about just the way that he won those championships, 829 00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,000 you don't see those kinds of races anymore. 830 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,880 Like your race in Birmingham was the opposite of a Mo Farah race. 831 00:52:04,240 --> 00:52:07,360 Oh. But he had some serious speed. 832 00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,000 Yeah, he did. Yeah, I mean, I don't know, it's 833 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,800 like you've I've heard workouts that he's done and I don't know 834 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:19,000 if people like, you know, exaggerate them like, yeah, from 835 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,280 mouth to mouth. But it's like, yeah, you could, 836 00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,280 if those are true, then you can understand why you no one could 837 00:52:25,280 --> 00:52:26,600 beat him in the end of a championship. 838 00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:31,240 I can't really do that type of workout, but I can run quite 839 00:52:31,240 --> 00:52:35,600 fast without getting a lot of lactic lactate. 840 00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,880 So yeah, I just need to do what I'm good at basically. 841 00:52:40,880 --> 00:52:43,600 All right, so if my final question is, I mean, how are you 842 00:52:43,600 --> 00:52:45,960 going to define success in New York? 843 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:48,480 Like what is the hope and feeling you're hoping to take 844 00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,720 away from that performance? And then also like thinking of 845 00:52:51,720 --> 00:52:55,520 LA in 2028, which is kind of funny to think of like that's 846 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:58,040 going to be your Olympic debut just because of the injury in in 847 00:52:58,040 --> 00:53:02,080 Paris and in Tokyo before that that I was like, it's crazy you 848 00:53:02,080 --> 00:53:05,040 haven't competed in Olympics, but we'll make it there this 849 00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:08,680 time. And but does it, do you think 850 00:53:08,680 --> 00:53:11,040 anything could happen if you win New York? 851 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:15,720 Could it change your thoughts and plans on like LA 2028? 852 00:53:15,720 --> 00:53:19,000 Or does the 10K mean that much to you that you're like, no 853 00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,320 matter what, I'm going to run that at the Olympics? 854 00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:28,880 It's hard to say. It's like, well, if I win New 855 00:53:28,880 --> 00:53:35,360 York, which might not be the most likely outcome, that I 856 00:53:35,360 --> 00:53:41,840 might do some kind of like, yeah, re a re evaluation, but 857 00:53:41,960 --> 00:53:47,120 then I would need to run another marathon to qualify for the 858 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:50,200 Olympics. Now we see. 859 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:54,120 I mean, I would really love to run at least one Olympic track 860 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:56,880 race. I mean, as you said, it was not 861 00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,920 just Paris and Tokyo, but back in Rio. 862 00:54:00,920 --> 00:54:03,960 I also got a navic navicular stress fracture right before it. 863 00:54:03,960 --> 00:54:08,480 So it's been 3, 3 injuries for 3 Olympics. 864 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:15,160 But I mean, also like being competitive in an Olympic 865 00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:17,080 marathon. That's also something that's 866 00:54:18,120 --> 00:54:21,600 really tempting. So we'll see. 867 00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,640 But I think I should just focus on New York now and not think 868 00:54:26,640 --> 00:54:30,680 about Los Angeles too much. But also like I think 10K is 869 00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:32,920 like the first day and the marathon is. 870 00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,720 The the double is possible. Yeah, double. 871 00:54:34,920 --> 00:54:38,000 Is possible? So here's what you got to do. 872 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:43,080 Then you just got to win New York and then next year just go 873 00:54:43,080 --> 00:54:45,120 to Valencia and hit the qualifier. 874 00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:48,160 Like maybe don't go all out and try and win in two O 1. 875 00:54:48,160 --> 00:54:52,680 Just hit whatever the time is, get the standard and then you do 876 00:54:52,680 --> 00:54:56,640 the double in in in 2028. I mean there's there's different 877 00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:59,440 paths that I think people can take to the whole entire thing. 878 00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:01,840 I guess you're kind of lucky that you don't have to worry 879 00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:05,640 about a Swedish Olympic marathon trials where he finished top 880 00:55:05,640 --> 00:55:07,400 three. Like that's that's the issue we 881 00:55:07,400 --> 00:55:09,680 have here in the States, a little bit of an extra stressor. 882 00:55:10,040 --> 00:55:13,120 Yeah, absolutely. That's a like a really good 883 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:18,760 thing with being a Swede. I think like between 3:00 and 884 00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:22,720 8:00 K at the European Championships I ran faster than 885 00:55:22,720 --> 00:55:24,600 the second fastest Swede has done in 5K. 886 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:27,520 Yeah. Like ever. 887 00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:28,400 Yeah, yeah. So. 888 00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,080 So yeah, I don't really have to stress too much about those 889 00:55:35,080 --> 00:55:38,000 elections. Well, Andreas, I appreciate you 890 00:55:38,000 --> 00:55:41,520 taking the time for this. Excited to see you in New York. 891 00:55:41,520 --> 00:55:45,880 I am also going to be running it so but I'll be further back. 892 00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,800 We're we're running for fun in New York. 893 00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,640 So I will have my phone on me. So I'll keep track on like how 894 00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:53,240 things are doing up in the front. 895 00:55:53,240 --> 00:55:57,000 And then maybe, you know, once you're showered and had already 896 00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,080 food, we'll probably be crossing the finish line an hour and a 897 00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:03,280 half or so late later after you. Yeah, I'll be there sharing. 898 00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:05,640 Perfect. Well, Andreas, thanks so much 899 00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,800 for doing this and best of luck with the with the marathon 900 00:56:08,800 --> 00:56:09,600 training. Great. 901 00:56:09,720 --> 00:56:13,600 Thanks a lot. All right, that's a wrap on 902 00:56:13,600 --> 00:56:15,880 today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the 903 00:56:15,880 --> 00:56:18,840 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 904 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,920 routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer 905 00:56:21,920 --> 00:56:24,800 Jasmine Fair and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make 906 00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:26,520 the Sidious Magic Podcast happen. 907 00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,960 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 908 00:56:28,960 --> 00:56:32,840 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 909 00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,680 read every single one. You can find 910 00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:38,520 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 911 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:40,080 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 912 00:56:40,280 --> 00:56:42,400 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.