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We just witnessed the first ever 46 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:37,440 sub two hour marathon on a record eligible course as 47 00:02:37,440 --> 00:02:42,760 Sebastian Sawy shatters the world record in one hour, 59 48 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:47,360 minutes and 30 seconds. Absolutely insane. 49 00:02:47,360 --> 00:02:51,360 We're going to process all of the splits, make sense of all of 50 00:02:51,360 --> 00:02:54,360 this. And of course, we are joined by 51 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,240 the one and only Preet Majithia, who is in the media tent right 52 00:02:58,240 --> 00:03:00,480 now. So Preet, I mean, it's good to 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,840 see that your mind hasn't absolutely exploded, but what's 54 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:06,440 it been like? I guess processing the last 55 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:11,920 couple hours of just pandemonium I would suspect, at the London 56 00:03:11,920 --> 00:03:14,240 Marathon. Yeah, I mean, absolutely 57 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,480 bonkers. Like absolutely wild to to be 58 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:20,000 here in person to kind of, oh, I mean, you don't get to witness 59 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,160 it because the we're the we can't access sort of the finish 60 00:03:23,160 --> 00:03:24,840 line area from from the media tent. 61 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:29,440 But but obviously we were all here with the rest of the media 62 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:31,800 kind of watching what was going on. 63 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:35,240 And, and obviously, I think you came in starting the day like 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:39,160 not expecting anything quite this crazy, like we're expecting 65 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:42,400 the women's only world record. That wasn't a wild surprise. 66 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:48,800 We were expecting a 201 on a really good day, maybe A2 break, 67 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:50,480 get close to Kipton's world record. 68 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,000 But that was kind of really kind of the top end of what 69 00:03:53,000 --> 00:03:54,880 everyone's been expecting over the last couple of days. 70 00:03:54,880 --> 00:03:57,160 And obviously what actually happened. 71 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:01,360 The other part of it was it wasn't what we were expecting. 72 00:04:01,640 --> 00:04:04,960 Probably up to about 30 K into the race or even 35K into the 73 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,160 race, that was what was, that's what I was going to say, said 74 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:08,640 the. Scene for us as to sort of like 75 00:04:08,640 --> 00:04:12,400 where you guys started to suspect, oh man, like this, this 76 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,800 might be happening. To be honest, I was busy. 77 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:18,680 Just literally tweeting splits, right? 78 00:04:18,680 --> 00:04:22,880 So that's what I was doing. I started a live tweet and it 79 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:25,840 was kind of approaching the end of the women's race. 80 00:04:25,840 --> 00:04:30,920 So because when Sarwei made his move, that was kind of also when 81 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,040 the women's race was also just coming to an end. 82 00:04:33,280 --> 00:04:37,000 So I was just kind of trying to process all of that and and 83 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,080 trying to deal with that. And then Kyle posted on our 84 00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:42,120 group chat saying 412 split and I was like, what? 85 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,320 And, and I don't think we, because the sort of the splits 86 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,840 here only give you the 5K splits, right? 87 00:04:49,840 --> 00:04:52,200 So that, that you can see on the website and stuff we didn't have 88 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,080 any access to anything extra occasionally on the screen. 89 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:58,400 Like I think that the official kind of TV feed was splash 90 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,600 flashing up some mild splits. So that's kind of I assume where 91 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:06,720 Kyle got it from as well. But yeah, that that was when 92 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:09,520 obviously we thought this may be something special on, but even 93 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:15,720 then it was only probably, you know, when they had about two to 94 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:19,080 three K to go that that it really became a possibility. 95 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,120 And The thing is, it's you're saying they because it wasn't 96 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:25,920 just Sebastian Saway. So credit to Yomi Kajalja, who's 97 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:30,240 making his marathon debut and he manages to hang on to Sebastian 98 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:34,480 Saway with up until a mile to go and he ends up running 15941. 99 00:05:34,480 --> 00:05:37,520 So we didn't just get the first man to break 2 hours in a 100 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:39,520 marathon. We also got the second guy. 101 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:43,680 And kind of very appropriate that it happens to be Yomi 102 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:47,040 Kajalja, a guy who has been used to so many close calls, never 103 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,680 necessarily getting the golden moment, but always is the guy 104 00:05:50,680 --> 00:05:53,720 who's right there. I mean, he's turned up multiple 105 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:56,720 medals on the track, but it has never been gold. 106 00:05:56,720 --> 00:06:00,360 And so ironically, that's exactly what ended up happening 107 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:02,280 today. But major credit has to go to 108 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:05,520 him as well for making this a race to push the pace and for, 109 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:09,080 you know, SAW to, you know, see history through all the way to 110 00:06:09,080 --> 00:06:11,080 the finish line. Yeah, exactly. 111 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,240 And I mean, we'll, I'm sure we'll talk through some of the 112 00:06:13,240 --> 00:06:17,320 stuff that I heard from speaking to, you know, which kind of 113 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,600 deal, which kind of addresses some of this from to speaking to 114 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:24,600 Yomi and also speaking to, to Saway's team as well about kind 115 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,720 of how this all came about. But Chris, I wanted to get your 116 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,240 reaction. You obviously woke up to this. 117 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,520 So what was your experience of kind of finding out this news 118 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:37,360 because you didn't get up all that early to watch this, right? 119 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,760 I know because I kind of also was in a similar boat to you. 120 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:44,960 I thought, OK, like it'll be a 2O1 race, you know, high 121 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:46,840 potentially. That's what the talk had been 122 00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:49,800 kind of coming into it. I'm good to kind of hand off 123 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,560 things to Preet and the social team. 124 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:55,800 And then all of a sudden, I guess I even put my phone on 125 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:00,160 like sleep mode so I could kind of get some extra minutes of 126 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:02,080 sleep in the morning. And I turned off my alarm. 127 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:05,000 I still usually get up, you know, around the same time every 128 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,640 day. And then I open up my phone and 129 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:11,280 I see that it's just a barrage of text messages, which is what 130 00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:13,280 I was expecting. That's why I kind of turned on 131 00:07:13,280 --> 00:07:15,960 that mode so I wouldn't wake up to just the buzzing. 132 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:19,960 And then when I finally start to scroll through and I'm seeing 133 00:07:19,960 --> 00:07:23,280 what transpired, yeah, my mind was blown. 134 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:26,600 But it was very funny because Kyle's last text, I think, was 135 00:07:26,880 --> 00:07:29,560 sort of like, Chris is going to wake up and thinking that this 136 00:07:29,560 --> 00:07:33,680 is all just one big prank. And it took until sort of seeing 137 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,680 the results, seeing that we already had a graphic up with, 138 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:40,600 you know, the 1:59 that I was like, oh, my God. 139 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:43,560 And so then I kind of just had to catch up on everything. 140 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:48,240 And so this whole entire morning has just been chaotic for me to 141 00:07:48,240 --> 00:07:50,200 just sort of process all of this. 142 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,960 And at the same time, I'm fortunate in the sense that this 143 00:07:53,960 --> 00:07:56,920 comes a couple weeks before my books manuscript is due. 144 00:07:57,920 --> 00:08:03,400 And so, yeah, I mean, this was just a truly historic day all 145 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:05,640 around. I still haven't gotten enough of 146 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:10,000 this race where I'm gonna be consuming all of the interviews. 147 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,400 Part of is just sort of, I'll probably write something 148 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,880 immediately after this to, you know, blast out as a newsletter 149 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:20,360 with all of our key takeaways. But yeah, it's just been a 150 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:23,440 really, really historic moment for, you know, the sport's 151 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,840 biggest event right now. So let's dive into it. 152 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:31,960 I guess where you know the big thing is the splits that people 153 00:08:31,960 --> 00:08:37,000 are kind of blown away by halfway they hit it's 6029 right 154 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:41,320 on target essentially second-half 59 O one. 155 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:45,720 That's an 88 second negative split 59 O1 faster than Conor 156 00:08:45,720 --> 00:08:49,800 Manse's American record top 70 on the all time list. 157 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:54,760 If that was just sort of his PB, it was absolutely insane. 158 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:58,040 The key parts are definitely 30 to 40K. 159 00:08:58,040 --> 00:09:02,840 There's a 273610K stretch. The 5K world record is, you 160 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:06,360 know, 1235. He ran back-to-back. 5K is 161 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,440 barely a minute off of that pace in a marathon. 162 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:13,240 The third quarter of it, mile 24, like you said, 412, the 163 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:16,880 fastest ever single mile run in a marathon. 164 00:09:17,160 --> 00:09:20,000 And in the final segment, we've been, I guess, talking on this 165 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,120 podcast a couple weeks ago, just sort of like these crazy splits 166 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,400 that we're seeing, even going back to like the Paris Marathon 167 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:29,840 from a couple weeks ago where it was like 2.2 K, that 40K to the 168 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:33,480 finish mark. And you know, Sal ends up 169 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,920 clocking that in 5 minutes and 51 seconds, 10 seconds faster 170 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:38,960 than anyone has covered that segment. 171 00:09:38,960 --> 00:09:41,800 So the dude was sprinting, you know, all the way towards the 172 00:09:41,800 --> 00:09:43,960 end. The last 5K splits were 1354, 173 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,160 then 1342. He was accelerating. 174 00:09:47,280 --> 00:09:50,520 That's the crazy part. Yeah, exactly. 175 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,280 You can see that I think the minutes per kilometer is one of 176 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,320 the other bits of info that you get in his splits. 177 00:09:57,320 --> 00:10:01,520 And they're, you know, and so the 30 to 35 K split was 2 178 00:10:01,520 --> 00:10:05,720 minutes 47 a kilometer for 35 to 40K was 2 minutes 45. 179 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,440 And then the last 2.2 was was 2 minutes 48 kilometer. 180 00:10:09,440 --> 00:10:14,440 And his speed in that closing bit was 22.48 kilometers an 181 00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,440 hour, which, yeah, just just wild. 182 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:22,520 And and what, what what I think was was interesting was Yomi was 183 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,240 with him up to 401K as well. That's what's even more wild, 184 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:28,880 right? So that 11 seconds and Yomi said 185 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:31,000 he hit the wall at 41. So that's what he told me in the 186 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,080 interview. And that kind of makes sense 187 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:39,000 because that's how you lose 11 seconds in, in just a kilometer. 188 00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:43,640 But but yeah, this was wild. Yeah. 189 00:10:43,640 --> 00:10:46,720 So do you think that there's a big part of it that is just sort 190 00:10:46,800 --> 00:10:50,400 of Sawy trying to shake off Cajolcha is what led to sort of 191 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:53,240 like the acceleration in the final stages? 192 00:10:53,840 --> 00:10:55,840 Yeah, I mean, I think, I think, you know, it's like some of the 193 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,520 things his team said were around the fact that like, yeah, 194 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:00,360 because Cajolcha was with him, that pushed him. 195 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,840 Otherwise he might have just been chilling thinking, oh, I'm 196 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:05,880 going to hit the world record. Great, fabulous. 197 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,240 But because he was trying to shake off Cajolcha, he kept on 198 00:11:09,240 --> 00:11:12,760 accelerating because yeah, he he managed to drop Kaplimo, you 199 00:11:12,760 --> 00:11:16,040 know, somewhere around between 30 and 35 Ki think he made his 200 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,520 move and, and Kaplimo is about two seconds back and. 201 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,360 We haven't even give given Kaplimo enough credit that even 202 00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:26,800 he got under the previous world record of and he ran 2 hours and 203 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,480 28 minutes. So all three guys, you know, 204 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,560 under Kipton's two hours and 35 seconds mark. 205 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,480 So it's still just so, so mind blowing. 206 00:11:38,160 --> 00:11:40,040 Yeah, absolutely. Like completely. 207 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:43,760 And like Cajola in a debut, his debut, it's not even like he's 208 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:46,240 an experienced marathoner. It's his debut marathon. 209 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,600 And I think, you know, we'd be talking about, I think Starways, 210 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,560 Starways team was saying look, yeah, he's he, he runs 211 00:11:52,560 --> 00:11:56,280 differently, runs on his his toes like, and I think Matt made 212 00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,200 the same point in our group chat, right, that his running 213 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,120 style is very different and it's not the usual running style of 214 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,680 the the top marathoners as well. So, so that's very interesting 215 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:09,560 kind of thing as well. So yeah, a lot of credit to 216 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:12,960 because you have like he said in the pre race press conference, 217 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,800 he was going to go for it and that's exactly what he did. 218 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:20,960 And yeah, I think that is that is what drove Joe Sarway to to 219 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,480 to kind of push himself as well. I mean, yeah, to lose by 11 220 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:31,800 seconds, run 15941. It's I'm sure it stings a little 221 00:12:31,800 --> 00:12:37,800 bit, but it's such AI mean we've never seen anything like this. 222 00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:40,640 The one thing that I keep coming back to you is just sort of 223 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:45,120 something similar to what we saw in London where the I mean in 224 00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,800 Boston where the conditions were great. 225 00:12:46,800 --> 00:12:50,440 So speak to that part of it because I saw videos of just 226 00:12:50,440 --> 00:12:52,960 sort of like some of the flags on the course. 227 00:12:52,960 --> 00:12:58,560 And so there was like, you know, good weather, the wind was 228 00:12:58,560 --> 00:13:00,680 beneficial to to the runners, but not exactly. 229 00:13:00,680 --> 00:13:04,280 It wasn't like anything like no, no crazy gusts or anything like 230 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,040 that. It was just a really, you know, 231 00:13:06,040 --> 00:13:09,600 great day to race. Yeah, I mean, I, I think look as 232 00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,120 in the last three days have been war to say the least, right? 233 00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:17,320 They've been really warm. Like by 11:00 midday, which is 234 00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:21,240 kind of around the finish time, it was, it was getting pretty 235 00:13:21,240 --> 00:13:24,480 hot. But obviously at the start time 236 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,040 it wasn't too, too bad. It was, you know, it was 237 00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,720 whatever about 50° and yeah, it was, it was increasing to 6065° 238 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,960 by the finish. And, and, but because the last 239 00:13:35,960 --> 00:13:39,640 few days there was not a cloud in the sky when you were in the 240 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:41,280 sun, it felt way hotter than that. 241 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:46,040 Whilst I think today there was a little bit of cloud cover, maybe 242 00:13:46,040 --> 00:13:48,200 not quite as much as we'd originally anticipated, but 243 00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:51,640 there was more than enough. And right now it's actually 244 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:54,200 really quite pleasant and quite cool outside. 245 00:13:54,480 --> 00:13:56,480 Just a perfect temperature probably for running. 246 00:13:57,480 --> 00:14:01,160 And I think that was the same kind of earlier on that it 247 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,840 wasn't because of the clouds, the sun wasn't kind of entirely 248 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,440 on them and it wasn't quite as as as harsh as it could have 249 00:14:09,440 --> 00:14:11,600 been. So yeah, good conditions. 250 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,520 I mean, the wind, I don't, I don't know for sure. 251 00:14:14,600 --> 00:14:18,400 I mean, we're told it would be a tailwind in the last sort of 10K 252 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:23,000 ish them as they're coming back down but into the city. 253 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:27,760 But yeah, I don't know how you know, as I say, I don't, I don't 254 00:14:27,760 --> 00:14:30,120 know how, how that exactly translated on the course. 255 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:35,520 And then another thing I keep coming back to is all of this 256 00:14:35,520 --> 00:14:38,520 discussion about, you know, from Boston last week, about how 257 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:41,880 people just sent it and no one actually ended up really dying 258 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:46,320 all that hard. And we kind of saw a mix of that 259 00:14:46,320 --> 00:14:48,160 here today. Like not everyone ended up 260 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:52,080 having like the best day. Like if you look at the top 20, 261 00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:55,040 less than half of them set personal best. 262 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,840 I think it was 9 out of the top 20 ended up PB ING. 263 00:14:58,040 --> 00:15:00,280 Some of those PBS were pretty big. 264 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:04,440 But there's a variety of different factors that I think 265 00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:09,600 we're going to try and get into here to try and really, you 266 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:11,680 know, explain things, whether it's just, you know, OK, so 267 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,120 we've we've touched on the weather. 268 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,280 We'll get to the shoes in a bit. We'll get to fueling. 269 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:19,680 We'll get to just sort of, you know, the depth that was in this 270 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:21,080 field. We've touched on the depth in 271 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,800 this field already. But before we even get dive even 272 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,160 further into that, the elephant in the room, which I feel like 273 00:15:28,920 --> 00:15:31,720 has been brought up many times. And, you know, now that this 274 00:15:31,720 --> 00:15:34,760 video of the finish is going viral, I'm getting it and seeing 275 00:15:34,760 --> 00:15:38,000 it in my replies. It's sort of like, well, how can 276 00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:40,880 we believe this performance? And this one, I think is so 277 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,880 different than the Ruth Chapen Getich case. 278 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,040 And we, you know, I put something up on on Twitter about 279 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,600 this because I just kept seeing the replies over and over again. 280 00:15:50,160 --> 00:15:55,280 So the facts are, yes, Kenya is in the middle of like a doping 281 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,520 crisis. Like they've got hundreds of 282 00:15:57,520 --> 00:16:00,840 athletes who are serving suspensions or who have served 283 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:04,120 suspensions and are banned because they've, you know, 284 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:07,280 dabbled in doping and performance enhancing drugs. 285 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:09,280 So there's, you know, a crisis there. 286 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,360 However, you know there you can never really say that anyone is 287 00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,520 100% clean because you just never know, right? 288 00:16:17,560 --> 00:16:21,200 In terms of just in your heart of hearts, would you go out on a 289 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,960 limb and say anybody in this sport is 100% clean unless 290 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,600 you're in that persons shoes and know for a fact that they're not 291 00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:31,880 doping? So best thing we can do is take 292 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,520 as much information as possible and allow some people to try and 293 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,040 be as transparent as possible. And that is what Saway's team 294 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:43,160 has done. Both him, his agent and his 295 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:49,640 sponsor Adidas have done their best now for a couple for, you 296 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:54,560 know, I think half a year, six months plus of trying to get out 297 00:16:54,560 --> 00:16:57,840 of more than six months get ahead of this because they knew 298 00:16:57,840 --> 00:17:00,800 that he's this tremendous talent and they didn't want any sort of 299 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,720 doubt cast around him. So again, we've touched on this 300 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:08,079 before, but I'm sure we're attracting people who are just 301 00:17:08,079 --> 00:17:12,160 coming to, you know, try and learn about this performance and 302 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:14,560 making sense of it. But in the lead up to the Berlin 303 00:17:14,560 --> 00:17:18,000 Marathon, when Adidas and his team committed, you know, 304 00:17:18,359 --> 00:17:23,800 $50,000 more than more than that too to anti doping test in the 305 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,599 lead up to Berlin, it was because they believed that he 306 00:17:25,599 --> 00:17:27,720 was going to break the world record and they didn't want the 307 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:30,880 chef and get it sort of doubt and skepticism to, you know, pop 308 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:33,640 up and he doesn't break the world record in Berlin because 309 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,080 it was a hot day, but we saw tons of potential for it. 310 00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:39,760 So in the lead up to this London Marathon, the questions were, 311 00:17:39,960 --> 00:17:43,800 did he, you know, get into that same level of anti doping 312 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,600 protocol? And what has come out from 313 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,680 conversations that you've had with his coach and with, you 314 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,000 know, the AIU being pretty forthcoming about it is that 315 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:56,960 they've decided that the amount of money to allocated to test 316 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:01,560 Saway is going to be spread over the course of the 2026 calendar 317 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:03,400 year. It just didn't make sense to 318 00:18:03,760 --> 00:18:06,760 test him as rigorously as they did before Berlin. 319 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:09,680 So instead, we're going to look at the entire year. 320 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:12,880 Because of that, though, he still is being tested more 321 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:19,080 regularly than other athletes. And so in that sense, like you 322 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,120 can take some confidence into Saway's performance because he 323 00:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,480 they are putting their money where their mouth is and, and, 324 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,800 and going this extra step to try and prove that we should be able 325 00:18:30,800 --> 00:18:35,000 to believe what we're seeing. What people don't realize is 326 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,320 that anti doping tests are pretty expensive. 327 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,480 Like you have to, it's 1, you know, going out there to try and 328 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,880 collect the testing. And then yet they're lucky that 329 00:18:44,880 --> 00:18:50,560 now we have this, you know, water accredited lab in in Kenya 330 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:52,600 itself. So that that's why like we've 331 00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,800 seen, you know, a big burst and a big spike in in positive tests 332 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,880 out of Kenya is because they're able to do the testing local. 333 00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:03,560 And so, yeah, I mean, I think like there are just so many 334 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,840 little things here where this is it. 335 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:11,640 You know, it's hard to think that Solway's bulletproof, but I 336 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:18,320 do think that this is all, you know, kind of the most proactive 337 00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:21,720 stance we've ever seen an athlete take to backing and 338 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:24,920 legitimizing what we're seeing. Yeah, absolutely. 339 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:27,000 You know, that that that's the sense I got from the team that, 340 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:28,360 you know, they are conscious of it. 341 00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:30,680 Obviously lots of people ask questions about it over the 342 00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,760 course of the weekend. Kojocha was asked about it in 343 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,760 the interview that I've got up on, on, on on there as well. 344 00:19:37,760 --> 00:19:40,160 And then he was kind of also very much in favour of saying, 345 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:43,680 yes, you know, clean sport is really important and and you 346 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:46,160 know, he he might want to think about doing something like this 347 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,360 as well. And, and I think the other part 348 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,600 of it that I think helps in, in this circumstance, right, is 349 00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,360 that both there were three people that had a crazy day, 350 00:19:56,480 --> 00:19:58,960 right? There was Kojocha, there was 351 00:19:58,960 --> 00:20:03,880 Starway and there was Caplimo. And I think if you have one 352 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,520 athlete like when Chapman Geddich did it, who's kind of 353 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,160 miles and miles ahead of everyone else. 354 00:20:11,040 --> 00:20:14,280 That feels like an outlier performance much more clearly, 355 00:20:14,280 --> 00:20:15,680 right? Whilst here there were three 356 00:20:15,680 --> 00:20:18,680 athletes at the very least who were having outlier performance. 357 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,400 They're in different training camps. 358 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,920 You know, it's always Kenya, Kajal's, Ethiopian, Kaplimos, 359 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,680 Ugandan, you know, they train in their their own home countries 360 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:29,360 respectively. So unless there's some massive 361 00:20:29,360 --> 00:20:33,520 conspiracy, it feels like that also helps the storyline that, 362 00:20:33,920 --> 00:20:37,680 you know, unless everyone's doing it, these guys, you know, 363 00:20:38,640 --> 00:20:41,200 we'd hope that these guys are are actually, you know, much 364 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,160 more likely to be to be clean. And it's not just an outlaw 365 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:48,320 performance that could be brought about purely by by some 366 00:20:48,320 --> 00:20:51,400 sort of rule violations. Yeah. 367 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,440 I mean, I'm trying to think of like what else that way could do 368 00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:58,680 to kind of prove it to folks. And it's unless it's just sort 369 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,960 of you're just live streaming your, your, yourself for 24 370 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:06,600 hours a day and providing video evidence of every single test 371 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,800 that is being taken. I mean, it wouldn't be crazy to 372 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:13,320 if to take the extra step of, you know, creating a website 373 00:21:13,320 --> 00:21:16,640 where it's sort of like you're just, hey, this is the like, as 374 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:19,520 it's going along, this is the date that I got tested. 375 00:21:19,520 --> 00:21:23,200 And so as it's coming along, people would be able to see that 376 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:25,040 would be just sort of something really cool to see. 377 00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,600 We're not there yet because, like, even I think sometimes I'm 378 00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:32,040 always wondering sort of what is the timeline when an athlete 379 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:34,080 does test positive? Like when did that test take 380 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:35,840 place? And so if this is something that 381 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:40,760 they're trying to chronicle live in real time, it would be cool 382 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:43,600 to see that. But yeah, I think he's doing way 383 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,280 more than enough than other runners to try and still sort of 384 00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:49,320 that confidence. Yeah. 385 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:52,120 And also I will say just to add to that now that you mention it 386 00:21:52,120 --> 00:21:54,480 is like his team, there was someone from his team who was 387 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:56,680 videoing everything that's going on. 388 00:21:56,680 --> 00:21:58,960 So like press conference, the interview I did with his coach 389 00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:02,120 got interviewed and it sounds very much like they are doing 390 00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:06,520 some sort of whether that's social YouTube or documentary or 391 00:22:06,520 --> 00:22:10,480 something on his build and, and this race and and so on. 392 00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,760 So hopefully that will also give a little bit more insight, which 393 00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:16,640 is often what we don't get with some of these athletes that are 394 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:20,080 based in Africa because they aren't kind of doing stuff on 395 00:22:20,080 --> 00:22:22,000 social media as much. But it looks like adding us is 396 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:26,320 also investing in that which is, which is I think good or you 397 00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:29,480 know, and, and, and I hope that we we get to see something as 398 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,600 well as the behind the scenes because it would of course be be 399 00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:34,840 amazing to see that. Yeah, you can't eliminate doubt 400 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:37,360 100%, right? Like, there's always going to be 401 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:40,720 a skeptic out there no matter what, but he's doing everything 402 00:22:40,720 --> 00:22:44,600 in his power to get, you know, in front of it as much as 403 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,840 possible. And that transparency matters a 404 00:22:46,840 --> 00:22:49,800 lot. So that is sort of like the 405 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:54,120 elephant in the room that it's so different to kind of now 406 00:22:54,160 --> 00:22:57,160 having been, you know, in the roof Chepingettich press 407 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:00,920 conference and now that I feel like it sits better with people. 408 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:03,240 So that's one explanation for things. 409 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:07,680 Now let's go into another factor as to how we got here and that 410 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:12,160 is the shoe tech. We have seen just sort of all 411 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:16,120 these major brands make leaps and bounds in their super shoe 412 00:23:16,120 --> 00:23:18,760 technology over the course of the last 10 years. 413 00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:22,920 This is the 10 year anniversary of the release of super shoes 414 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:28,520 where they they first came out. And like at the 2016 US Olympic 415 00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:30,960 marathon trial, some athletes were even just kind of testing 416 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:32,520 it in the months leading up to that. 417 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,000 But like that was the first time we ever got to see them in 418 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,160 races. And now 10 years later, you 419 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:42,280 know, we have more rules around it where there is a stack height 420 00:23:42,280 --> 00:23:45,760 limit, there's boundaries set as to how innovative you can get 421 00:23:45,800 --> 00:23:50,240 within certain things. And you know, Adidas has been a 422 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:55,240 company that has thrown a lot of resources into their research 423 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:59,120 and development and they've come out with these super shoes. 424 00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:05,160 So it's the Adidas Audi 0 Audios Evo Pro 3. 425 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,480 So in the past, we've seen Solway run in the twos and now 426 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,920 this 3 is, I think I read online, 97 grams. 427 00:24:15,960 --> 00:24:20,480 So that's for like the men's size 9, which is 30% lighter 428 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:25,000 than the EVO 2, but still remains at that 39 millimeter 429 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,680 stack height. So by comparison, when you look 430 00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:32,240 at Nike's latest prototype, and I think some of this information 431 00:24:32,240 --> 00:24:34,880 is all available on like the World Athletics website where 432 00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,240 you can see which shoes have been approved for competition. 433 00:24:37,520 --> 00:24:42,160 That latest prototype I think weighs in at about 6.2 oz. 434 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:48,400 And yeah, it's just today Adidas had a great day where, you know, 435 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:53,160 the top five finisher, 4 of the top five finishers were in the 436 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:58,120 Evo Pro 3. But footwear is just sort of 437 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,680 another area where we've seen just sort of these advances. 438 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:08,520 And if she was leveling up, of course an athlete of SAW's 439 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,040 caliber and talent is going to to run faster. 440 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:16,800 I don't know, like I'm, I'm not as attuned to just sort of what 441 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:21,080 lab findings, you know, people, I don't think it's necessarily 442 00:25:21,080 --> 00:25:24,800 out there, just sort of like how the Evo 3 compares to the Evo 2. 443 00:25:25,080 --> 00:25:29,880 But that could essentially give SOA Wei seconds, right? 444 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:34,360 Like that's 10 to 15 seconds that you could probably see an 445 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:37,960 improvement. And so that over the course of a 446 00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:43,760 marathon starts to add up. And so that's the part where 447 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:47,600 I'm, I'm going to be curious to see just sort of how lab testing 448 00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:53,160 on these shoes comes back in terms of what you know has been 449 00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:56,040 found in the research developing them. 450 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,560 They're expensive. And I think like the, the, the 451 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:05,520 hook was in 2023 that they were priced at $500 a pair and we're 452 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:11,080 good for one time use. Foams is where the next frontier 453 00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,120 is when it comes to super shoes. It was kind of, you know, in the 454 00:26:14,120 --> 00:26:18,600 process of when I've dedicated a chapter 2 to them in, in my, in 455 00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,640 my book, that was sort of just sort of like before the rules 456 00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:23,320 and all that kind of stuff. Now that we have the rules in 457 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:27,920 place, everyone's kind of playing around with like, do we 458 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,200 cut out the heel? Do we, you know, make this 459 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,720 rocker here? What do we do with the uppers? 460 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:39,240 But foam is where I think all of the companies are making leaps 461 00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,320 and bounds to try and, you know, kind of push further ahead. 462 00:26:43,320 --> 00:26:46,800 But was there any talk about the shoes afterwards? 463 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,840 This episode of the City Smack podcast is supported by Wahoo. 464 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:56,200 You've got 26.2 miles of work. Heartbreak Hill, The Newton 465 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:01,200 Hills, that long grinding stretch from mile 16 to 20. 466 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,600 You've studied the course. You've circled the date on the 467 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,600 calendar. 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I mean, a little bit, but I 544 00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:12,960 mean, I think you can see very clearly it was a very good day 545 00:31:12,960 --> 00:31:16,240 for Adidas and for those shoes, you know, Cajulcha Salway 546 00:31:16,640 --> 00:31:18,680 tickets to Safer as well on the women's side. 547 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,160 Yeah. Or as the winner or wearing 548 00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:25,840 those shoes. And Amos Caputo ran two O 139 549 00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,760 also from that training group, Tamara Tolar, also Adidas 550 00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,880 Incajocha's training group, two O 259. 551 00:31:32,880 --> 00:31:36,600 So it was a it was a really good day all round for them, which I 552 00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,000 think tells you that maybe there is something to that shoe. 553 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,680 But yeah, I mean, beyond that, I think we, I think we did ask, 554 00:31:44,680 --> 00:31:46,640 there were a couple of questions asked the athletes, but I think 555 00:31:46,640 --> 00:31:48,880 they just, Paul said the shoe's amazing. 556 00:31:48,880 --> 00:31:51,240 It's great. And yeah, that was about the 557 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:52,720 level of insight we got, unfortunately. 558 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:58,000 But yeah, it does sound like it is a, it may well be a bit of a 559 00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:01,840 leap forward, which then suggests are there more 560 00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:05,240 technological advances to be made by the other brands? 561 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,720 I don't know. It feels like we had obviously 562 00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,560 the big deal about Puma's shoe last year and that seems to have 563 00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:13,480 had a reasonable level of success. 564 00:32:13,480 --> 00:32:16,600 And then every year a new brand releases a new shoe, creates a 565 00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:19,800 big deal. So I think we may well keep 566 00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,400 seeing that level of advancement. 567 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:28,640 Yeah, it's basically you're fresher for a bigger portion of 568 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,280 the race. And even if you think about just 569 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,480 like the pace that these guys were running for the 1st 25 K of 570 00:32:34,480 --> 00:32:37,040 the race, they were only just kind of getting warmed up. 571 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,520 And by the time that they get to 35 K and all that stuff, that's 572 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,440 where sort of like they're less taxed and that running economy 573 00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:49,640 is where, you know, you just don't have as much fatigue 574 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:55,800 thanks to these super shoes. So that sort of I'm not as big 575 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,680 of a super shoe junkie when it comes to and neither are you 576 00:32:58,680 --> 00:33:01,800 preed, I guess when it comes to just sort of all of the this is 577 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,880 sort of where after a performance like this, it would 578 00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:07,400 be helpful to have a media member who has spent time 579 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:12,680 working in a running shoe store to ask some questions. 580 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:16,400 But yeah, at this point, this is sort of the level of insight. 581 00:33:16,720 --> 00:33:20,040 A press release literally just came into my inbox from Adidas 582 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:22,600 where they're, you know, obviously now touting that this 583 00:33:22,600 --> 00:33:28,040 is the lightest and greatest version of the Evo Pro that 584 00:33:28,040 --> 00:33:32,560 they've got. So yeah, I mean, I want more of 585 00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:35,200 the the science that validates this performance. 586 00:33:37,280 --> 00:33:39,560 Same. On a similar note, like fueling 587 00:33:39,720 --> 00:33:45,280 is another place where we've seen athletes credit some of the 588 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:50,360 marginal gains in their time. We was there any talk about this 589 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,080 just sort of like what was he ingesting during the race? 590 00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:54,720 I know there was a question about his breakfast. 591 00:33:55,040 --> 00:33:57,280 During the Yeah, that was the more that was as far as we got 592 00:33:57,280 --> 00:33:58,960 with his, with his actual feeling, really. 593 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:01,400 Yeah. No, no one else saying that 594 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,800 about the actual what he was taking during the race. 595 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,360 But yeah, I mean, yes, you could see them go for their bottles. 596 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:12,000 I think very notably, I think except for deliberate, almost 597 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,440 deliberately missed a bottle and that's when she almost dropped a 598 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,440 beerie. So that kind of happened in the 599 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:21,080 women's race, but in the men's, but in the men's race, yeah, it 600 00:34:21,080 --> 00:34:22,920 looked like everyone was was getting their fuel in. 601 00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:27,000 So yeah, but that. But that's as far as that's all 602 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:28,920 we know, I think at the moment about the fueling. 603 00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:34,000 We do know that Saway is a Morton athlete. 604 00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,320 I mean, they promote him pretty heavily, I think like on their 605 00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:41,920 Instagram page. And their hydrogel technology 606 00:34:41,920 --> 00:34:45,679 and innovation is something that has been a major unlock within 607 00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:50,080 the marathoning scene where you're able to, you know, fuel 608 00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:53,360 more, whether it's, I guess what for the longest time people 609 00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:59,360 subscribe to like this 60 grams per hour, then I think bumped it 610 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:01,920 all the way up to 120 grams per hour. 611 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:09,640 And yeah, but then you watch some of these races and what, 612 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,280 what was it? What I was told, I guess, by 613 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:17,360 Zuhair Talbi on the podcast last week is you just see, you know, 614 00:35:17,360 --> 00:35:20,320 the likes of John Career, take one sip, 2 sips, and then they 615 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:21,720 toss a bottle. So it's like they're not, 616 00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,600 they're getting something, but they're not necessarily taking a 617 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,960 ton either. So a lot of that, you know, 618 00:35:32,200 --> 00:35:36,840 fueling is happening earlier on in the race, I would think. 619 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:41,120 And because of Morton's hydrogel technology and all that stuff, 620 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,840 like you're not suffering as much of the GI distress that 621 00:35:44,840 --> 00:35:48,400 used to plague marathoners in the late later stages of the 622 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:52,160 race. ICARB, I'm sure, plays a role in 623 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:54,840 marathoners preparation sometimes. 624 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:58,080 But again, this is one of those things where it's sort of like, 625 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,120 all right, we want more transparency. 626 00:36:00,280 --> 00:36:02,960 Tell us exactly. Just sort of like, you know, how 627 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:05,600 much was he training with to or how much was he planning to 628 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:07,840 take? Unless you're on the course 629 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:11,600 scooping up the bottles and then pouring it out to see just what 630 00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:14,240 was left in them. Like there's no real way we 631 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:18,720 would get hard concrete data on just exactly how much he 632 00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:23,400 consumed, but there was probably a pretty dialed in fuel plan. 633 00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:28,320 So there was that. So again, sort of if we're 634 00:36:29,440 --> 00:36:34,280 trying to see it makes sense, like of every little possible 635 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:37,040 factor, those are kind of the things that where it's like, I 636 00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:40,840 want more, you know, science on the shoes and then I want, you 637 00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:46,320 know, whatever the exact fueling plan and mechanism was for for 638 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:50,680 SAW. OK, another another factor to 639 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,360 unpack is the depth of this race. 640 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:55,360 We've touched on it just sort of with, you know, the fact that 641 00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:57,680 Kajalcha pushed him to the finish line. 642 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:02,840 Kip Limo was another Titan that was touted in the days leading 643 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:06,840 up to this race. So all of that kind of gives 644 00:37:06,840 --> 00:37:13,760 credit, but it's also just really it's cool to see that we 645 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,800 have someone like Sebastian Sawy with little to no track, you 646 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,040 know, pedigree having this amount of success. 647 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:24,720 And then we also have Yomi Kajalchev proving the 648 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:27,760 traditional sort of model of, you know, being a really 649 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:31,480 successful track athlete is going to make you successful in 650 00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:34,640 the marathon. And so that, I think All in all, 651 00:37:34,640 --> 00:37:37,800 is pretty cool to see on display here where you have both paths. 652 00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,200 Like there's the younger athletes who are now choosing to 653 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,240 bypass, you know, all the time on the track for the more 654 00:37:43,240 --> 00:37:46,880 lucrative opportunities that await them on the roads. 655 00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:52,040 Versus we've been able to see Yomi Kajalja develop from being, 656 00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:56,360 you know, a 347, you know, indoor mile world record holder 657 00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:00,520 all the way now to being a 159 marathoner. 658 00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:05,920 Pretty, pretty insane, but it's not always just necessarily A1 659 00:38:05,920 --> 00:38:08,640 for one Joshua chapter guy, someone who we talked about 660 00:38:08,640 --> 00:38:12,040 briefly in the lead up to this race, he was a non factor in 661 00:38:12,040 --> 00:38:13,560 this one, right? Yeah. 662 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:18,360 So he went with that group that was going for two O 330 roughly 663 00:38:18,720 --> 00:38:23,200 and he did not hang on. He he ended the race. 664 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:25,440 Not even in the top. Yeah, he's not he's not in the 665 00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:28,240 top ten. He ended up 12 with two 0639. 666 00:38:28,240 --> 00:38:30,920 So that isn't even a a new personal best for him. 667 00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:34,040 That group, I think to be honest, that group which had 668 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,720 Jeffrey Cameron or Joshua chapter guy, they all struggled 669 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,560 and, and I think Amanil Petrus who were talking about European 670 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,240 record, he finished 15th in 2/08/31. 671 00:38:46,120 --> 00:38:51,640 Jeffrey Cameron was the best of those and he ended up 8th in 672 00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,520 20538. So they didn't really, they 673 00:38:55,520 --> 00:39:00,120 didn't really succeed where some of the other athletes did. 674 00:39:00,640 --> 00:39:02,720 So. So that was, that was funny 675 00:39:02,720 --> 00:39:06,000 because the top group obviously did really well off their 676 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,600 pacing. The second group did not. 677 00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:12,440 And then the third group, which had the Brits, it was quite a 678 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:15,080 big group of Brits, all, you know, quite a lot of them had a, 679 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,080 had a good day as well. So it was very strange that that 680 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,000 middle group just didn't have anyone quite quite get there. 681 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,760 So, but maybe they were all pushing themselves a little bit 682 00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,640 and that's where it, it kind of wasn't, wasn't going to happen 683 00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,760 for them because it was a little bit ambitious for the for the 684 00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:34,680 ethics that were in there. Yeah, it's so many different 685 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:36,320 things to to talk about with this one. 686 00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,200 The other part which I remember as I was reflecting on Ruth 687 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,040 Chepingettis performance and trying to remain as much of an 688 00:39:45,040 --> 00:39:48,120 optimist as possible in the aftermath of it, I was like, 689 00:39:48,120 --> 00:39:52,400 well, there's also how do you put a number on belief, right? 690 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:56,880 Like that you believe you have the capability to do this and 691 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,000 SAW. In the lead up to Berlin, 692 00:40:02,240 --> 00:40:05,920 probably felt really confident that he was capable of breaking 693 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:09,200 the marathon world record. He was dealt a hot day. 694 00:40:09,760 --> 00:40:13,240 So when that's your starting point, Yeah, he suffered an 695 00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:15,800 injury right afterwards. But if training was clicking and 696 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,800 he was able to get back to a place where he felt he was in 697 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,640 even better shape enough to vocally say that he was going to 698 00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:29,160 be going after Kipton's course record, then his self belief was 699 00:40:29,760 --> 00:40:34,160 pretty high as well. You also know that someone's 700 00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:36,000 been able to do this in the past. 701 00:40:36,240 --> 00:40:41,600 Kipchoge's 15940 is evidence of that. 702 00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,680 Maybe this like it's kind of wild because now Elliott gets 703 00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,880 bumped pretty far down. I guess now on the all time list 704 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,200 he's outside the top five. Or is he #5? 705 00:40:53,960 --> 00:40:56,400 I think he's #5 because yeah, he's far away. 706 00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:00,240 Kajolcher Kiplimo kept him and then Kipchoge. 707 00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:06,000 He's #5 wow. Yeah, like 3 years ago you I 708 00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:07,840 would not have thought that they would be. 709 00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:12,360 Two years ago after the after the 159 or no, no, what was 710 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:13,600 that? That was 2019. 711 00:41:14,000 --> 00:41:19,600 Yeah, Six years ago, I wouldn't have thought that he'd be that 712 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,680 far down, but that's just sort of like where we've gone. 713 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:29,520 It's psychological to be able to unlock the side of things, to 714 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:31,280 believe that something like this was possible. 715 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:38,400 And then I messaged you and I said, hey, this is me trying to 716 00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:41,640 salvage this Kelvin Kiptham chapter that I've written in my 717 00:41:41,680 --> 00:41:45,480 book. I was like, ask SAW in the press 718 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:50,720 conference. Like, how much did seeing Kelvin 719 00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:55,200 run that time in that performance instill belief that 720 00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:57,240 something like this would be possible? 721 00:41:57,240 --> 00:41:59,480 And you did. You asked it in the press 722 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,280 conference. And honestly, he gave like one 723 00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:02,880 of his best answers of the whole thing. 724 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,280 Tell the folks, I guess what he said. 725 00:42:04,920 --> 00:42:08,840 Yeah, no, he was saying that it, it was, you know, that it 726 00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:11,640 obviously it did, it gave him confidence that everything is 727 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,880 possible and there isn't anything that is impossible. 728 00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:16,960 And yeah. And, and therefore he was really 729 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,440 glad that he was able to to do it. 730 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,480 And I tried to ask him like, you know, how do you feel about not 731 00:42:21,480 --> 00:42:22,920 ever being able to race him as well? 732 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,320 Because obviously that's the other part of this, right? 733 00:42:25,320 --> 00:42:29,600 Wouldn't we love to see a race between Saway and Kipton, right. 734 00:42:29,600 --> 00:42:32,880 And unfortunately, they sort of like chips in the night really 735 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:37,720 like Kipton obviously departed the scene very sadly at the time 736 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:40,880 that saw away, then very shortly thereafter came onto the scene. 737 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:44,760 And you know it, it is really unfortunate that, you know, we 738 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:48,000 were in a in a time where we possibly could have had all 739 00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:51,360 these athletes competing against each other and and we didn't 740 00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:55,080 really get to see it. But you know, at the moment, 741 00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:59,760 obviously, I think we do have obviously a lot of really great 742 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:00,880 athletes at the top of the sport. 743 00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:05,120 And I think, you know, you did your power rankings for the USA 744 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:08,600 and I think it it and we were talking about, oh, it might be 745 00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,240 time to also do the international power rankings. 746 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,040 And I think I. Know who's number one in this? 747 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:16,920 Well, I mean, I, I think going into this, obviously we were 748 00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,720 saying, look, it's SAR way, Capilimo and, and Korea are the 749 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:24,680 big three in and, you know, whatever order, like the outcome 750 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:27,360 of this race could determine what order they go in. 751 00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:30,800 We obviously did not foresee Kajoucha putting, inserting 752 00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:32,520 himself very firmly into the mix. 753 00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,040 But we also, you know, did not anticipate, you know, the three 754 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:38,200 of them breaking the world record. 755 00:43:38,200 --> 00:43:44,520 So I, I, I don't know whether that does that push career down. 756 00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:47,360 Well, I think it pushes at the very least down to #3 whether it 757 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,400 pushes them down to #4 possibly as well, right? 758 00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:52,880 I think it's 4 not like. All that, yeah. 759 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,760 Three guys just broke the world. I think you're 4. 760 00:43:57,840 --> 00:44:00,880 You're four. Yeah, yeah, it well, it's tough, 761 00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:02,080 isn't it? Like Kajalcher, obviously we've 762 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,120 got to see a winner race, right? That's that's the challenge for 763 00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,120 Kajalcher is we need to see him like, obviously, given what he's 764 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,840 done, what he's done, we need to see him win, win a major, right, 765 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:14,200 And win, win a couple of majors. But that will be interesting to 766 00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:16,760 see what what he does next, what all these guys do next. 767 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:19,960 And I think, you know, talking to Saway's team, they were kind 768 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:24,120 of obviously they were in the mindset of, you know, you can 769 00:44:24,120 --> 00:44:26,560 see all the interviews I think they were given. 770 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,600 They talked quite openly about the fact that he's had these 771 00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:32,520 injuries in the build up after Berlin, the stress fracture, 772 00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:36,600 back trouble in January. They were kind of quietly 773 00:44:36,600 --> 00:44:37,840 confident that he was in good shape. 774 00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:41,680 But I don't think given the course and and given that built 775 00:44:41,680 --> 00:44:44,480 that part of the build up, I don't think they were expecting 776 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:47,080 this either. And I think I I very much 777 00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:51,320 suspect that the the plan would have been, look, you know, let's 778 00:44:51,320 --> 00:44:53,840 try and win this race and then then maybe go for another world 779 00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,240 record attempt in the fall. I would assume they would have 780 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:57,880 tried ballet again, but who knows? 781 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,360 And now who knows what's next, right? 782 00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:02,640 Like, what do you do next? Right. 783 00:45:02,680 --> 00:45:05,720 Yes, you could try the preview world record, but like, what do 784 00:45:05,720 --> 00:45:07,840 you do next? It's like you've already broken 785 00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:09,280 two hours. You've already broken the world 786 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:11,960 record. Like yeah, you. 787 00:45:12,520 --> 00:45:13,560 Need Olympic gold? You. 788 00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:15,400 Need Olympic gold that. That is it right now. 789 00:45:15,440 --> 00:45:18,800 Ultimately that is that is that's got to be the target. 790 00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:22,400 But I but I suppose in the meantime, maybe you go and clean 791 00:45:22,400 --> 00:45:25,240 up on some of the other majors that you haven't haven't done 792 00:45:25,240 --> 00:45:27,400 yet, right. So that would be my and. 793 00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:33,640 Now this begs the question of how routine does sub 2 become? 794 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:36,360 And the stars have to align right? 795 00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:42,160 Like we've had the benefit of the best of the best going up 796 00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:45,040 against each other here. Now they're all going to demand 797 00:45:45,240 --> 00:45:47,320 higher pay days for their next one. 798 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,840 The weather conditions were great. 799 00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:57,520 The London course is not as fast as Berlin, but it's hard to say 800 00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:01,040 that now when they just broke the world record there by a 801 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,720 decent margin. Berlin historically has been 802 00:46:04,720 --> 00:46:06,480 fast. Imagine if they would have tried 803 00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,800 to do this in Valencia. We would have been looking at a 804 00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:13,960 sub 150 marathon. For Chicago, right so. 805 00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:18,440 Yeah. So that's where you're wondering 806 00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:22,360 is this, is there a Roger Bannister effect when it comes 807 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:28,280 to the two hour marathon? Kipchogi for him I guess like 808 00:46:28,280 --> 00:46:30,080 this is this is great for his legacy. 809 00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:35,040 It mattered like we a generation of runners, SAWE was younger, 810 00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:41,000 much, much younger when he watched Elliot run 2 hours and 811 00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:48,600 26 seconds in Monza, then he watched them go 15940 and then 812 00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:52,200 everyone watched, kept them scared in a legal race. 813 00:46:52,240 --> 00:46:56,880 And just sort of like over time, all these things have just sort 814 00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:01,960 of demolished the psychological ceiling that people placed on 815 00:47:01,960 --> 00:47:06,400 themselves that like, oh, if I try and do that, like you might 816 00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:09,240 be Fidippity's two point O and just die at the finish line. 817 00:47:10,200 --> 00:47:14,080 But no, when you see that a thing is possible, it reframes 818 00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:21,760 your thinking entirely. And so it's so hard to kind of 819 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,680 oversell the Roger Bannister effect but then also undersell 820 00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:31,320 it because it just sub to our marathons are just so crazy up 821 00:47:31,320 --> 00:47:33,200 until today. Yeah, well, I mean, I think the 822 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:36,440 other thing is right, we hadn't until last week we haven't seen 823 00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:43,560 anyone break 201 in 2024, sorry break 2:02 in 2024 or 2025, 824 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:45,880 right. Their John career on Monday goes 825 00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:51,760 2:01 for the first time we've seen that since since Kipton and 826 00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:54,640 or sorry, maybe CC lemma at the back end of 2023. 827 00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,440 But in Valencia that was the last time I think we saw a two O 828 00:47:58,440 --> 00:48:02,640 1 and then yeah, after that, you know, we hadn't seen one for two 829 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,440 years and then it's like London buses right. 830 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,640 When one comes they all come like multiple ones come and 831 00:48:09,640 --> 00:48:13,160 then, you know now we've got 2 sub twos another 2 flat. 832 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:18,360 Yeah, it it there is a question again like like we're talking 833 00:48:18,360 --> 00:48:21,520 about the special conditions in Boston like do the stars need to 834 00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,000 align? Do we then get another couple of 835 00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:31,120 years of kind of people running 2O12O2, you know, which are very 836 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,520 good times, very difficult to hit times? 837 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,120 And I think, and I think the other part of it was obviously 838 00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,840 they went out in 6030. And I think I was, I talked to 839 00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:42,280 the, the, the elite athlete coordinator who was kind of 840 00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,440 talking about, and we, we talked about the contrast. 841 00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:46,280 There's an interview up with him on the on the YouTube channel as 842 00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,120 well. Like the contrast between the 843 00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,680 men's of the women's race. In the women's race, they were 844 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,080 supposed to go out at 6730. They went out at 6615 and they 845 00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,280 died a little bit, right? And actually Helen Abiri said 846 00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:01,400 herself, look, they were slowing so much. 847 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:03,760 That's why Helen Abiri, who wasn't supposed to go anywhere 848 00:49:03,760 --> 00:49:05,480 near the front. Our instructions from Dave and 849 00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:08,600 Ritz time were 100% clear. Like don't go anywhere near the 850 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:11,680 front until as late as possible if the if there are other 851 00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,120 athletes with you. So she actually went to the 852 00:49:15,120 --> 00:49:17,240 front and pushed and she said, look, I don't want to run 853 00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:19,360 another 217, right? Because they were slowing down 854 00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:21,880 so much that there was a chance they would have ended up running 855 00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,840 another 217. I've already run 217. 856 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:28,520 I didn't come here to run 217. So she then took up the pace and 857 00:49:28,520 --> 00:49:32,200 kept it at least relatively honest to get them under 216 at 858 00:49:32,200 --> 00:49:35,760 the finish line. But on the men's side, they hit 859 00:49:35,760 --> 00:49:39,640 the split 6030, bang on. And we've seen like previous 860 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,080 kind of fast marathons where they've gone out and 60, they've 861 00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:45,880 gone out 6050 and even 6030 in the past has been a little 862 00:49:45,880 --> 00:49:48,600 spicy. And then the world record 863 00:49:48,600 --> 00:49:51,480 attempts have been fallen apart in the second-half of the race 864 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,920 very quickly. And today that was the one thing 865 00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:57,640 that didn't happen that they went, they hit the target split 866 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:02,080 and then they did not fall apart and they were able to negative 867 00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,040 split and accelerate off the back of that. 868 00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:06,760 And, and I think, you know, I've talked about this before and I 869 00:50:06,760 --> 00:50:09,680 think we've talked about it multiple times that like there 870 00:50:09,680 --> 00:50:13,360 is such a fine line in that where, where that fine line is 871 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,120 that each individual athlete is different and based on the day, 872 00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,360 based on the conditions, based on every, all the different 873 00:50:19,360 --> 00:50:21,920 factors that can affect things in a marathon. 874 00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:24,560 Like you've got to get that right. 875 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:27,080 And today the stars align. They got it right. 876 00:50:27,240 --> 00:50:32,640 And and I think it is a lesson in like don't go out and 60 877 00:50:32,640 --> 00:50:36,720 flat, but maybe that's what people will do. 878 00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:39,600 Now if they want to break 159, then they're going to have to go 879 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,280 out and 60 flat, right? So, so maybe that is that is 880 00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:44,120 what we'll keep on seeing. But, but who knows? 881 00:50:45,120 --> 00:50:48,840 Yeah, genuinely, no one knows. Yeah, we just watched History 882 00:50:48,840 --> 00:50:53,960 and no matter if you're, you know, a super shoe hater or 883 00:50:54,360 --> 00:50:59,120 you're someone who, yeah, I guess like, has lost in touch 884 00:50:59,120 --> 00:51:03,120 with, just sort of seeing all these fast times and like, 885 00:51:04,120 --> 00:51:07,240 however you feel about these things, the shoes, the gels, all 886 00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:11,000 that kind of stuff. We literally just witnessed an 887 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:18,120 actual human being run under 2 hours in a ratifiable course, 888 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:21,360 like record eligible course. That is a fact. 889 00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:27,160 The sport looks very different today than it did yesterday, a 890 00:51:27,160 --> 00:51:31,640 week ago. And yeah, I guess like we're 891 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:36,440 just watching the marathon become a truly different event 892 00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:41,760 compared to the game it was five years ago, 10 years ago. 893 00:51:42,680 --> 00:51:47,760 Like the shoes changed, the equipment that you're that 894 00:51:47,760 --> 00:51:51,800 you've got on your feet, the fueling and the gels changed. 895 00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,680 Kind of like the Physiology of you know, this, the bunk and 896 00:51:55,680 --> 00:51:59,600 that kind of stuff. The depth of today's race was 897 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:03,960 incredible. You give credit to Kipchogi and 898 00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:08,720 to Kiptem for the psychological part of it and all of these 899 00:52:08,720 --> 00:52:11,240 different things. You know, you put them all 900 00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:17,520 together and and Sebastian Sally breaks 2 hours in the marathon. 901 00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:21,080 So major credit to him. Hats off to him for the run and 902 00:52:21,080 --> 00:52:25,280 also just for kind of being the athlete with the anti doping 903 00:52:26,160 --> 00:52:29,920 Forsythe that the sport needs kind of right now. 904 00:52:30,400 --> 00:52:36,480 And it's not it's not a question of like, will we see, you know, 905 00:52:36,760 --> 00:52:41,960 another sub two again is just how soon and how much faster do 906 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,960 they go the next time? This is really broken. 907 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,080 Broken the mirror. It really has. 908 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:51,840 And yeah, I think it just is hard to process right now, 909 00:52:51,840 --> 00:52:53,880 right? And I think obviously separately 910 00:52:53,880 --> 00:52:56,080 in the in the aftermath of Boston, you know, there's been 911 00:52:56,080 --> 00:52:59,320 the debate we had the kind of input from Scott Farble about 912 00:52:59,320 --> 00:53:01,120 what are we seeing? What are we watching in these 913 00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:03,200 races? Are they fun to watch anymore? 914 00:53:03,200 --> 00:53:07,720 Because no one's dying. Like, it's not that 5050 game of 915 00:53:07,720 --> 00:53:12,320 a lottery where like half the field will die because, you 916 00:53:12,320 --> 00:53:14,360 know, that that's just what happens in a marathon. 917 00:53:14,360 --> 00:53:18,320 And now it's maybe 10 or 20% of the field might die in a 918 00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,640 marathon and the remaining 80% stays strong. 919 00:53:21,720 --> 00:53:25,440 And that that kind of is unless they really get their pacing 920 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,680 wrong, that they will go on to get a decent, decent result. 921 00:53:28,680 --> 00:53:32,280 And that just means, you know, in a race like London, you know, 922 00:53:32,280 --> 00:53:33,800 we have these very separate pace groups. 923 00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:36,600 They were very separate from, you know, mile 2. 924 00:53:37,240 --> 00:53:40,440 Like everyone, there's like three or four people racing 925 00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:42,040 against each other in each of these separate groups. 926 00:53:42,040 --> 00:53:45,280 The women was was even more extreme on that front. 927 00:53:45,280 --> 00:53:50,200 And and whether whether that generates A genuine race or not 928 00:53:50,200 --> 00:53:53,520 or a race that's as entertaining as an entertainment product to 929 00:53:53,520 --> 00:53:56,760 watch is maybe a different question, but I do. 930 00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,800 But it is one that I think is worth debating because I think 931 00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:02,120 some people enjoy it. But I think the issue might come 932 00:54:02,120 --> 00:54:05,640 when, if they're not able to achieve times like this anymore, 933 00:54:05,720 --> 00:54:07,480 right? Because we've again, we're 934 00:54:07,480 --> 00:54:10,040 saying that the time's broken. Like it's sub 2. 935 00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:13,240 Like, you know, and say we have another couple of years of 936 00:54:13,240 --> 00:54:15,960 people just running 2O12O2, right? 937 00:54:16,000 --> 00:54:18,600 Like if that's what we go back to for the next couple of years, 938 00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:21,080 then people are going to be like, what are we, why are we 939 00:54:21,080 --> 00:54:23,520 watching this? Like it's just like 3 guys 940 00:54:23,520 --> 00:54:25,480 running together here, three guys running together a mile 941 00:54:25,480 --> 00:54:28,960 back and. That's about competition. 942 00:54:29,160 --> 00:54:31,880 And, and there isn't a huge and there isn't a huge amount of 943 00:54:31,880 --> 00:54:33,640 competition because there's only three guys in it. 944 00:54:33,920 --> 00:54:36,840 And then if one of them drops off and then it's kind of the 945 00:54:36,840 --> 00:54:38,840 race is over. And there's not there's not 946 00:54:38,840 --> 00:54:42,520 really as much racing, you know, there's not as much 947 00:54:42,560 --> 00:54:46,040 unpredictability, right. So I just remember that the year 948 00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,840 that what was it? Daniel Donacimento I know is 949 00:54:48,840 --> 00:54:50,160 unfortunately not bad for doping. 950 00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:54,880 Went off at like like a crazy person in. 2022 New York City. 951 00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:57,600 Yeah, exactly. 2022 New York City and then just died and 952 00:54:57,600 --> 00:55:00,040 dropped out, right. And we just don't get that kind 953 00:55:00,040 --> 00:55:03,720 of thing anymore where like that that just doesn't really happen. 954 00:55:03,720 --> 00:55:06,640 Like OK, John career maybe is the last example of that in 955 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:09,720 Chicago last year, but where he tried to accelerate off world 956 00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:14,240 record pace. But yeah, it's much it's rarer 957 00:55:14,240 --> 00:55:18,520 and rarer. And so it just feels like in the 958 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:20,480 women's race, we got the podium we were expecting. 959 00:55:20,480 --> 00:55:21,960 We said these three were going to be on the podium. 960 00:55:22,200 --> 00:55:25,600 They were on the podium in the men's race. 961 00:55:25,720 --> 00:55:29,000 We kind of, we didn't know about conjunction because it was his 962 00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,840 debut, but otherwise we got Salway in complete mode, right? 963 00:55:31,840 --> 00:55:35,720 That's what we were expecting. And so I, as I say, the 964 00:55:35,720 --> 00:55:39,480 predictability like feels like, you know, the, the London 965 00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:43,120 Marathon champion and the Boston Marathon champions in 2025 and 966 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:49,240 2026 are the same. It, it just feels, you know, are 967 00:55:49,240 --> 00:55:52,560 we losing something that but, but as I say, like we will 968 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:54,680 always be interested, we'll always be observing, we'll be 969 00:55:54,680 --> 00:55:56,840 talking about it. And the more stuff that 970 00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,320 generates debate, the better. Yeah, Now I'm trying to think is 971 00:56:00,400 --> 00:56:02,880 do we do another emergency podcast for the next sub two 972 00:56:02,880 --> 00:56:04,520 that we. See in a marathon. 973 00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,240 No, this is a unique situation for sure. 974 00:56:08,480 --> 00:56:11,440 I do want to kind of you brought up the Fobble debate. 975 00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:15,880 We had someone who was a little bit of a psychic when it came to 976 00:56:17,040 --> 00:56:20,720 seeing something like this coming, maybe, CJ Albertson, who 977 00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:22,920 chimed in in the comments section, said. 978 00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:25,280 It's kind of like watching college versus pro sports. 979 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:27,120 Some people enjoy college sports because they have some 980 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:29,880 uncertainty. For most of running history, the 981 00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:31,920 majority of professional runners weren't relatively good 982 00:56:31,920 --> 00:56:35,440 marathoners. They could be pro 5K10K runners, 983 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,480 but most were essentially the college versions of of 984 00:56:38,480 --> 00:56:43,280 themselves when it came to the marathons. 13 flat, 27 flat, you 985 00:56:43,280 --> 00:56:47,120 know, 5K10K runners should have been running so slow relatively 986 00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:50,040 in the marathon for so long. And now due to a variety of 987 00:56:50,040 --> 00:56:52,640 factors, a greater percentage of runners are actually becoming 988 00:56:52,640 --> 00:56:55,480 good or pro marathoners. This will only continue to 989 00:56:55,480 --> 00:56:57,400 increase. Here's the here's the part 990 00:56:57,400 --> 00:57:00,600 that's really funny. We'll see sub two hour marathons 991 00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,560 come down to Sprint finishes. Which one you enjoy watching 992 00:57:04,560 --> 00:57:06,960 more is a personal preference, but you always have to 993 00:57:06,960 --> 00:57:10,640 appreciate people and a large groups in society progressing 994 00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:15,080 and mastering their craft. And CJ followed up a couple of 995 00:57:15,080 --> 00:57:19,120 minutes ago saying we'll see sub 2, sub two hour marathons come 996 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:21,360 down to a Sprint finish. He's like, I'm going to, I'm 997 00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,520 going to say this, age, well, not quite a true Sprint finish, 998 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,920 but close enough. Yeah, so. 999 00:57:27,920 --> 00:57:31,040 Kudos to to CJ on that one. Love it. 1000 00:57:31,360 --> 00:57:35,600 Absolutely love. It all right, that does it for 1001 00:57:35,600 --> 00:57:38,320 our emergency podcast. I understand we didn't talk as 1002 00:57:38,320 --> 00:57:41,600 much about tickets to Safa breaking the women's only 1003 00:57:41,600 --> 00:57:46,080 marathon world record. We'll be back on the mics in a 1004 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,680 couple days for the this week in track and field. 1005 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,720 We've got tons more to discuss. There was an American who ran 1006 00:57:52,720 --> 00:57:58,040 two O 5 this morning out at some random race in Toledo. 1007 00:57:59,200 --> 00:58:03,360 Gabby Thomas finally broke 11 seconds for the 100. 1008 00:58:03,360 --> 00:58:08,160 And somehow all of these things are a subplot to history being 1009 00:58:08,160 --> 00:58:11,280 made at the London Marathon. So that does it. 1010 00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:13,080 I've been Chris Chavez with Preet Majithia. 1011 00:58:13,120 --> 00:58:14,360 We'll catch you guys. Thanks. 1012 00:58:17,800 --> 00:58:19,520 All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1013 00:58:19,760 --> 00:58:22,480 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1014 00:58:22,480 --> 00:58:25,240 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1015 00:58:25,720 --> 00:58:28,560 A big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair and to everyone 1016 00:58:28,560 --> 00:58:31,160 behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Magic Podcast 1017 00:58:31,160 --> 00:58:33,040 happen. If you enjoyed today's episode, 1018 00:58:33,040 --> 00:58:35,960 a quick five star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify helps 1019 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,160 people find this show and we read every single one. 1020 00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:42,360 You can find muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com 1021 00:58:42,360 --> 00:58:44,760 and you can follow along across all of Sidiousmag's social 1022 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:46,240 channels. We'll see you next time. 1023 00:58:46,480 --> 00:58:47,520 Thanks again for listening.