1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:02,920 What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,120 Magic Podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,480 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,480 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,760 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,280 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 7 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,520 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,560 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,360 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:26,280 anywhere. Else. 11 00:00:26,560 --> 00:00:29,480 So let's get into it because we love track and. 12 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,920 Field. Before we get to today's 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:36,040 episode, you know we love giving the listeners a shout out when 14 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:38,400 they leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast. 15 00:00:38,800 --> 00:00:40,600 It helps the show's discoverability. 16 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:47,440 This week we've got a review from Kevin in Lux titled Great 17 00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:49,400 show for all things Track and Field. 18 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:51,960 This is a show I didn't know I needed. 19 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,800 I've been a runner for a long time, but I've never followed 20 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,200 the professional sport outside of the Olympics and Marathon 21 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,440 majors. Chris and the team bring a ton 22 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,360 of knowledge and energy to the sport and have me following it 23 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,880 all year long. Their athlete interviews get you 24 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,120 into the minds of the athletes, the highs, the lows, and 25 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,640 everything in between. Listening to the pod is like 26 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,240 hanging out with your buddies to talk about this beautiful sport. 27 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,000 Thanks for all you do. Thanks for that super, kind 28 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:20,320 review, Kevin. I said that all I wanted for 29 00:01:20,320 --> 00:01:23,800 Christmas was a couple more reviews from our listeners on 30 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:28,480 Apple Podcasts and you've delivered, so appreciate that. 31 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,160 If you want to be just like Kevin and leave us a five star 32 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:34,800 review on Apple Podcast today, we'll give you a shout out on 33 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:40,800 the next one. It's late in the race at the 34 00:01:40,800 --> 00:01:43,280 California International Marathon, and Coach Dina Evans 35 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:44,920 is standing along the final stretch. 36 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:48,120 There may be a few words of encouragement being yelled at 37 00:01:48,160 --> 00:01:51,080 some of the athletes, but she's also paying close attention to 38 00:01:51,080 --> 00:01:53,560 her phone. Every few seconds, another 39 00:01:53,560 --> 00:01:57,080 athlete from the Peninsula Distance Club runs past her, And 40 00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,080 on that day, they were all looking strong. 41 00:01:59,920 --> 00:02:01,920 And once they pass her, Coach Evans glances back at the 42 00:02:01,920 --> 00:02:04,000 screen. As many of us are at these 43 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,240 races, just glued to our trackers. 44 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:09,280 And the math is simple. The splits are lining up and she 45 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,120 knows that before the finish line clock makes it official 46 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,280 that they're going to do it one by one. 47 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:18,040 Some of her athletes are about to break 237, the US Olympic 48 00:02:18,040 --> 00:02:19,760 Marathon trials qualifying standard. 49 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,080 By the end of the day, seven women will be under that mark, 50 00:02:23,320 --> 00:02:26,400 six of them American. One man will hit the 216 51 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:28,720 standard as well. It was a special day and it was 52 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,520 celebrated widely online and one of our most shared posts that we 53 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,440 had that weekend on CDs Mags Instagram page. 54 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,360 My guest for today's episode is Coach Dina Evans of the 55 00:02:38,360 --> 00:02:41,240 Peninsula Distance Club, one of the most experienced, 56 00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,120 influential and quietly impactful leaders in American 57 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,440 distance running. What happened at CIM just 58 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,000 doesn't come out of nowhere. It was the product of more than 59 00:02:49,000 --> 00:02:52,920 25 years of coaching spent moving between youth athletes, 60 00:02:52,920 --> 00:02:56,280 post collegiates, pros, and learning how to build something 61 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:59,440 that lasts. Along the way, Coach Evans has 62 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,040 worn just about every different hat that this sport has to 63 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,360 offer. She was the women's head coach 64 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:07,760 for Team USA at the 2023 World Championships in Budapest. 65 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:12,160 She's served on nearly a dozen international team Staffs over 66 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:15,080 the past two decades. She currently sits on the USATF 67 00:03:15,080 --> 00:03:18,320 Women's Long Distance Running Committee after years of 68 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,600 leadership across track and cross country. 69 00:03:21,120 --> 00:03:23,800 But at the center of all of it is the Peninsula Distance Club, 70 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:27,360 a post collegiate team that she founded in 2007 and that she 71 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:31,000 still leads today. It's a grass roots operation 72 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:34,440 built on belief, patience and also community, so if you're 73 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:37,040 feeling generous, there's a link to support them in the show 74 00:03:37,040 --> 00:03:40,960 notes. Before PDC, Coach Evans was at 75 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:44,680 Stanford from 1999 to 2005 where she led the Cardinal to a 76 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,160 national cross country title and was named the NCAA Women's Cross 77 00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,720 Country Coach of the Year in 2003. 78 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,440 During that time, she coached many of the athletes that you've 79 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:55,680 heard on this show or seen as cover. 80 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:58,800 That's Lauren Fleshman, Sarah Hall, Melinda Elmore. 81 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,200 And before she even became a coach, she was an elite athlete 82 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:04,720 herself. A three time All American in 83 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,080 track and field and cross country at Stanford, a standout 84 00:04:07,080 --> 00:04:11,280 on the school's first NCAA Final Four women's soccer team, and 85 00:04:11,280 --> 00:04:15,240 someone who's since gone on to run more than a few marathons of 86 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,040 her own. In this conversation, we traced 87 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,800 the long arc from that quiet moment at CIM to the very 88 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:24,400 beginning where she was growing up in multiple sports, the 89 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,160 influence of coaches like Villanena and Coach Frank 90 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:30,560 Agliano, and what she's learned by spending so much time with 91 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,520 athletes in the often overlooked post collegiate phase. 92 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:37,280 Coach Evans has seen the sport from nearly every angle and the 93 00:04:37,280 --> 00:04:40,360 way that she's built her career patiently, deliberately, and 94 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:43,080 with deep care. So without further ado, here is 95 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:50,120 Coach Dina Evans. All right now welcome on Coach 96 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:52,720 Dean Evans to the City of Smack podcast. 97 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,760 And I was fielding text earlier today while I was on the 98 00:04:55,760 --> 00:05:00,480 treadmill from Jenny Grimshaw, our mutual friend, and she was 99 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,520 like, you got to ask her this. So there was like tons of 100 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,640 submissions of questions from some of your athletes that we 101 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,680 can, we can get to. But I find you right now, I 102 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:13,720 guess just before maybe a little bit of a holiday break, but a 103 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:18,120 couple weeks removed from a big weekend at CIM where you had 104 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:22,040 seven women run under, you know, the US Olympic trials qualifying 105 00:05:22,040 --> 00:05:26,600 standard, one of them Canadian. But she also got to celebrate in 106 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:28,960 lots of the love. And a big part of that too, I 107 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,640 think was it was like a 2 minute personal vest for so many of 108 00:05:32,640 --> 00:05:35,440 those athletes. And the photos from the finish 109 00:05:35,440 --> 00:05:39,040 line were, were amazing. You had you also had one guy, I 110 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,160 guess like at the US Olympic Trials qualifying standard. 111 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:45,800 And so there was tons of tons to celebrate for the Peninsula 112 00:05:45,800 --> 00:05:48,560 Track Club. And so I want to hear just sort 113 00:05:48,560 --> 00:05:50,000 of like what that day was like for you. 114 00:05:50,120 --> 00:05:52,960 Well, for me, it's a, you know, that whole weekend, I think for 115 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:54,400 many coaches it was a little bit crazy. 116 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:57,400 A lot of people were trying to do the, the double with US, 117 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:01,680 Cross and Cim. And of course, I was interested 118 00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:03,640 in that from a coaching perspective personally for the 119 00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:06,680 athletes that had involved. We had a a great day in Portland 120 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,360 on Saturday where we had Garrett Mcquitty take third and kind of 121 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:11,040 his first time out as a post collegian. 122 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,000 And although he's a cow guy, we still let him hang around in the 123 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:18,800 in the West Bay. But so that was a busy week and 124 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,960 a lot of people on the flight from Portland to Sacramento on 125 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:23,560 Saturday afternoon. And then for me, just backing up 126 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:25,360 a little step further, my daughter was playing in the 127 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,600 Final Four for the NCAA soccer tournament. 128 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,840 So I was in Kansas City, then Portland and Sacramento. 129 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:33,440 So to tell you the truth, it was kind of a blessing because I 130 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:36,600 wasn't, I was probably absolutely more stressed out 131 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:38,640 about the soccer than I was about the coaching stuff. 132 00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,680 So that was nice. But I felt knowing that that was 133 00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,880 going to be a hectic weekend all around, I was pleased with how 134 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:52,160 we'd kind of, you know, game planned nice and early for 135 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:53,680 folks. I like to do that anyway for the 136 00:06:53,680 --> 00:06:56,080 marathon. So you're not thinking about it. 137 00:06:57,120 --> 00:06:59,040 You know, it's not. Things aren't up in the air 138 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,320 relatively late in the game, but I felt like we had had a chance 139 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,880 to do that for the most part. And that so I think gave 140 00:07:05,880 --> 00:07:09,160 everybody a sense of kind of OK, it's just time to execute. 141 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:13,480 You know, marathons, like a lot of long things. 142 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:16,120 I said, I didn't know you've run, you know, plenty of 143 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:19,480 marathons. You know, you really can't come 144 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:22,120 at it with a, you can't be too excited too early, right? 145 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,840 So I kind of kept saying throughout that week and the 146 00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,880 week for like, listen, nobody's getting excited till 9:00 AM, 147 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:32,080 you know, on Sunday morning, like whatever it was like the, 148 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,280 the Wednesday before the Wednesday before, you know, 149 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,360 you're not, nobody's getting excited till December 7th at 150 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:41,000 9:00 AM. And so it was a pretty, it was a 151 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:45,120 great feeling to be in Fair Oaks at mile 20 and see everybody 152 00:07:45,120 --> 00:07:47,600 come by looking so good, obviously, and seen him a couple 153 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:51,240 times earlier on the course. But to be, you know, right there 154 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,520 around mile 20 and see people looking so good and bright and 155 00:07:54,520 --> 00:07:57,560 like ready to go and kind of be like it's time to get excited. 156 00:07:57,560 --> 00:07:59,680 You know, that was a really good feeling. 157 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:04,240 And then just standing, you know, the last spot I saw people 158 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:06,400 maybe like half a mile to go before they make the turn into 159 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,920 the finish. People just just hauling down 160 00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:12,520 the street one after the other and then just kind of refreshing 161 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:15,680 their results as they came across because I couldn't really 162 00:08:15,680 --> 00:08:18,120 get around the Capitol. It was just, it was pretty 163 00:08:18,120 --> 00:08:20,520 emotional 'cause there's a lot of really, you know, each of 164 00:08:20,520 --> 00:08:22,560 those folks has a, has a personal story that they bring 165 00:08:22,560 --> 00:08:26,920 to the table. And you know, so seeing some of 166 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:29,520 those dreams kind of come to fruition after some of them 167 00:08:29,520 --> 00:08:33,520 pretty lengthy Lead, lead insurance was was a special, a 168 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:36,159 special moment for sure. So when you've been at this for 169 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,280 over 25 years and, you know, touched so many different parts 170 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,440 of the sport, is it the the emotions and moments like that 171 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:46,560 that just kind of always make it worth it? 172 00:08:46,560 --> 00:08:49,560 And it's like a no brainer, like, yeah, just keep riding 173 00:08:49,560 --> 00:08:51,400 this feeling out for as long as possible. 174 00:08:51,640 --> 00:08:56,440 Yeah, so I said to Sarah Hall, who is, you know, still a good 175 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:59,920 friend and obviously just had a really another really strong 176 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:03,520 day. I just sidebar, just, it brings 177 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:07,640 me no end of like, pride isn't the right word 'cause these are 178 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:11,240 grown women. But, you know, to see Sarah and 179 00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:15,680 Melendi still just like crushing it, you know, both sides of the 180 00:09:15,680 --> 00:09:20,320 pond this weekend at their, you know, relatively young age is 181 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:22,400 really excited for me, I think, and just encouraging for 182 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:25,400 everybody, you know, who goes through the collegiate system to 183 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,320 think about, you know, this is a lifelong pursuit. 184 00:09:27,320 --> 00:09:29,800 And I think both of them, that was going to be true regardless, 185 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:32,760 but I'm just so glad that's been the case for them. 186 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:35,080 But I said to Sarah afterwards when we're kind of in the little 187 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,000 hospitality afterwards, I was like, you've been a part of some 188 00:09:37,000 --> 00:09:39,440 of my really favorite days ever in coaching. 189 00:09:39,440 --> 00:09:42,880 But I think this is this might surpass a couple of them just 190 00:09:42,880 --> 00:09:45,560 knowing, especially like I said, some of the personal stories we 191 00:09:45,560 --> 00:09:49,280 had within our group, but then also knowing for some of our 192 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:52,200 first timers, just being able to for them to spend like 2 plus 193 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:55,800 years just knowing that their Olympic trials qualifiers, like 194 00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:58,680 that's just a wonderful little, you know, nice warm hot tub to 195 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:02,280 sit in for a little bit, you know, and obviously we never 196 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:04,600 want to be satisfied. The ambition hopefully will 197 00:10:04,880 --> 00:10:09,840 continue to grow, but having that, that expanse of time to 198 00:10:09,960 --> 00:10:13,320 continue to improve and grow and and know that their 199 00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:16,720 qualification is secured is, is pretty amazing. 200 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,000 You know, a lot of times things don't go well uniformly. 201 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:21,160 There are a couple things that didn't go perfectly that day, 202 00:10:21,160 --> 00:10:26,920 certainly, But I you know, a lot of times when stuff goes well 203 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:30,280 for the athletes, you kind of think, wow, great job athlete. 204 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:34,120 And then when things go poorly, you think, oh, bad job coach and 205 00:10:34,120 --> 00:10:37,040 you start to like, you know, consider what you could have 206 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:39,640 done differently or how you could have set things up. 207 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:44,000 But I said to Greg Hebb, who, you know, I serve alongside of 208 00:10:44,000 --> 00:10:47,840 my USATF capacity with the LDR division stuff, I was like, 209 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,800 Greg, I got to kind of think about like this. 210 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:52,080 I got like, I should actually think about what went right here 211 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:54,600 because like, it seems like a lot of stuff went right today. 212 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,360 Normally you're kind of comparing and contrasting, but I 213 00:10:57,360 --> 00:10:59,000 was like something, something went right here. 214 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:03,640 So look forward to kind of continuing that reflection and 215 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,760 hopefully I get better as a coach than the athletes continue 216 00:11:07,760 --> 00:11:09,680 to kick on for the next couple years. 217 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:11,560 Yeah. I guess like we'll bounce around 218 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:15,880 all throughout like your career in this conversation. 219 00:11:15,880 --> 00:11:19,000 But if we backtrack, as you mentioned, just sort of like the 220 00:11:19,000 --> 00:11:22,960 good days with Malindi and Sarah Hall and those are the Stanford 221 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:26,840 teams with like Lauren Fleshman, you know, in those early 222 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:29,240 coaching years. If we go to the very beginning, 223 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,240 I guess from your transition of, you know, being this high 224 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:35,440 performance and and elite athlete, you know, coming out of 225 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:39,280 Stanford, the gateway, I guess to getting into coaching. 226 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:41,160 What drew you in? I was pretty sure that I 227 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:42,560 definitely did not want to coach. 228 00:11:42,840 --> 00:11:48,000 So yeah, like I finished my senior year on a relatively high 229 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,280 note, but then went immediately, like 3 days after graduation 230 00:11:51,280 --> 00:11:54,320 into grad school and did a really intensive like teacher 231 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:57,240 education master's program. But during that time, I did work 232 00:11:57,240 --> 00:12:00,240 part time in the track office and I was doing, you know, like 233 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,000 under the bleachers with the The Dirty uniforms. 234 00:12:03,000 --> 00:12:05,640 I was putting up snow fence at the cross country, you know, 235 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:08,880 like doing all of these things. I was like, I want no parts of 236 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:14,840 this, you know, long term. So it it's a long, too long 237 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,320 story for the podcast, but there's a little bit of a 238 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,440 securities route, including some middle school teaching. 239 00:12:19,440 --> 00:12:23,400 And I worked for USA, for Craig, Craig Mass back at USATF for a 240 00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:26,120 little bit and ended up back at Stanford. 241 00:12:27,680 --> 00:12:30,120 My husband's career path kind of factors in there as well. 242 00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,760 And then just approached me one time in the, in the mail room. 243 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:38,640 Honestly, it was like, so you know, what do you think we have 244 00:12:38,640 --> 00:12:41,240 a spot open? Would you like to, you know, and 245 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:46,360 I, I really wasn't sure, but I think in that particular 246 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:49,320 situation, I was still very young, but it was a very 247 00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:53,400 specific situation. I, I can speak fluent Stanford. 248 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,200 So that was helpful from a recruiting standpoint. 249 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:01,600 And I knew him really well. You know, even as a team member 250 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,760 and a leader on the team, I, you know, we often jousted, had some 251 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:08,920 robust exchange of ideas, you know, and I think he knew that I 252 00:13:08,920 --> 00:13:12,400 understand his idiosyncrasies and I think he had a lot of 253 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,560 confidence in me. And so I kind of came into it 254 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:19,840 pretty young and kind of knowing that I didn't know a ton, but I 255 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:21,720 tried to just lead on my strengths. 256 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,480 And that's that's kind of the way I still try to approach 257 00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,680 things like, you know, I'm, I'm not AI started off having people 258 00:13:28,680 --> 00:13:30,640 call me Dina instead of Coach Evans because I'm like, look, 259 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:31,920 I'm really about that much older than you. 260 00:13:31,920 --> 00:13:36,760 Like, let's not front here. And, you know, an American 261 00:13:36,760 --> 00:13:38,360 studies major who was a middle school teacher. 262 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:41,800 I'm not, you know, a scientist or any of these things. 263 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:44,000 Obviously, I try to learn and try to get better. 264 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:46,520 And I'm conscious of, especially at my advanced stage now, I 265 00:13:46,520 --> 00:13:49,920 needed to proactively, you know, do those things. 266 00:13:51,000 --> 00:13:54,200 So I tried to just be, you know, who am I to tell you whether to 267 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:57,320 run 11/4 hundreds instead of 12 is what I kind of normally say, 268 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,880 you know, let's just try to build a cluster of data points 269 00:14:00,920 --> 00:14:02,920 that would give you the confidence that what you're 270 00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,080 trying to do is possible. And so try to kind of go about 271 00:14:06,080 --> 00:14:08,040 it. In those early years, I guess as 272 00:14:08,040 --> 00:14:12,160 you're sort of, you know, soaking in a lot of what you're 273 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:16,280 observing from coach Finland, Anna, like what were some of the 274 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:21,080 pillars of just sort of like his philosophy that you really 275 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:23,920 gravitated towards and enjoyed that, you know, you've maybe 276 00:14:23,920 --> 00:14:26,000 also taken on as you've developed your own sort of 277 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:27,560 training philosophy. I think 1. 278 00:14:27,640 --> 00:14:33,640 Connection that that I think Ray true to me is he definitely 279 00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,560 didn't treat everybody the same. And that's like the, you know, 280 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,040 there's that's a Rorschach test. And to a certain extent, like 281 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,880 sometimes that's a positive thing, sometimes it's a negative 282 00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:44,520 thing. But particularly say in the year 283 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:48,720 2000 where we had Gabe Jennings and Michael Stember and then 284 00:14:48,720 --> 00:14:50,840 Brad Hauser, I'll make the Olympic team, you know, out of 285 00:14:50,840 --> 00:14:54,040 college. You know, each of those guys 286 00:14:54,040 --> 00:14:59,680 were very different in terms of their strengths and what they 287 00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,320 were trying to do. And he found a way to kind of 288 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:05,320 like the, and, but because they were all so good, along with 289 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,440 several other guys on that team, they had to obviously work 290 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,680 together to maximize the environment to be able to just 291 00:15:11,680 --> 00:15:13,680 athletically be able to do the things they wanted to do. 292 00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,440 But he kind of found a way to, to connect with them 293 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:23,800 differently, each of them while still having the environment of 294 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:25,800 a team. And that's, that type of thing 295 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:29,520 is something that's that's stuck with me that I, and I think 296 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:33,440 there's a parallel to our PDC team this fall where we had, you 297 00:15:33,440 --> 00:15:37,480 know, a group of women with a variety of different entry 298 00:15:37,480 --> 00:15:42,960 points and, you know, resumes up to this point and expectations 299 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,240 and, you know, just the commitment to trying to find a 300 00:15:46,240 --> 00:15:49,200 little, a slightly different approach with each person. 301 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:52,040 Obviously, athletically, the whole point of having a group is 302 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,560 to be able to have people work off of each other and maximize 303 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,640 that. But trying to just differentiate 304 00:15:58,640 --> 00:16:02,400 a little bit in the manner in which you, you know, develop an 305 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,680 approach, whether it's mentally or just the, the way you talk to 306 00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,280 people or whatever. That's something that I probably 307 00:16:08,280 --> 00:16:11,520 got from him pretty well. Yeah, and it's been fun when 308 00:16:11,520 --> 00:16:14,160 I've had these conversations with coaches to kind of trace a 309 00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:17,520 little bit of just where, oh, this coach's philosophy pulls 310 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,320 from this coach. And it's like then I for a while 311 00:16:20,320 --> 00:16:24,440 was stuck into the Pat Henner coaching tree for a bit. 312 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:28,440 And like, I got to hear of, you know, from Milt, from, you know, 313 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:31,400 Julie, just all the different things that everyone's pulled 314 00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,440 from, from each other. So with with Vin, I guess is 315 00:16:35,440 --> 00:16:38,280 there an extension there to elements that you've also kind 316 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,000 of picked up from gags because he also had that presence, you 317 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:46,920 know, especially on the on the farm team for a while. 100% Gags 318 00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:49,840 actually. When I was in high school I 319 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:52,440 seriously considered Georgetown and for whatever reason I still 320 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:55,280 don't know to this day why Coach Helmert didn't come out to visit 321 00:16:55,280 --> 00:16:57,320 me. But somehow Gags did, even 322 00:16:57,320 --> 00:17:00,040 though he was coaching the men. And so I had like my home visit 323 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:02,520 with him. And so this is, you know, 100 324 00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:06,280 years ago before the Internet. Gags obviously is also not a 325 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:11,000 scientist, but obviously he's a great leader of, of people and 326 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:14,640 over the years obviously learned from his experiences and knew 327 00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,720 how to get, you know, get to the Enchanted Forest. 328 00:17:18,079 --> 00:17:21,280 You know, he figured out the path and but it didn't 329 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:26,000 necessarily require he, he just, he had his own, he had his own 330 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,040 way of doing it. And I, but I think that he had, 331 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,960 he had certain ways of like, I just remember him telling the 332 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:35,320 story something about something about I just wanted people to be 333 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:37,200 thankful that I got them pizza or something. 334 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:43,200 Like he just like just general human kindness and just general 335 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,720 attitude. That type of thing, I think is 336 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,400 saying thank you. Those types of things sounds 337 00:17:50,400 --> 00:17:53,160 like silly and like kind of off topic from like the task of 338 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:54,760 trying to get people to run distance events. 339 00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,160 But in terms of creating an environment, yeah. 340 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,360 But you know, these people are capable by and large. 341 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,840 You know, it's just a question of trying to get people to to 342 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,600 perform at A at a level that's like maximized their ability. 343 00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:09,120 And a lot of that is just getting them in the mood and 344 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,360 getting them feeling confident. You know, oftentimes I say, you 345 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:15,080 know, like, listen, if if you really believed that doing 250 346 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,040 push ups a day would allow you to run like a fast 5000, you 347 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:21,080 like, you really believe that like you might actually do OK. 348 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,080 Like, obviously physiologically that doesn't make any sense. 349 00:18:24,360 --> 00:18:27,160 But like we see people do crazy stuff all the time, right? 350 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:30,680 And like, you're like, I don't really know how that like 2 + 2 351 00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,160 was not like, you know, adding up to four. 352 00:18:33,160 --> 00:18:35,600 Like maybe they just there's a coaching perspective that's 353 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:38,080 different than yours. But like if people are really 354 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,080 sold on it, you know, and I think so, I think Gax was 355 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:44,440 really, you know, in his coaching career at like a 356 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:47,080 maestro of that type of that type of thing. 357 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:49,200 So I I definitely appreciated that about him. 358 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:52,160 He was always just so generous with this time when he was 359 00:18:52,520 --> 00:18:55,440 around us at the farm team. And we during that time that I 360 00:18:55,440 --> 00:18:57,480 was on staff at Stanford and he was coaching the farm team, we 361 00:18:57,480 --> 00:19:00,800 had a lot of, you know, collaborative activity, 362 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:02,600 certainly. And I there's definitely things 363 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:06,600 that I still incorporate in practice that that he that are, 364 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,440 are his things. He probably got them from 365 00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:13,200 somebody else, right. But you know, like just simple 366 00:19:13,200 --> 00:19:15,280 things like a temple run in the morning and some hills in the 367 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:19,400 afternoon, you know, for strength, you know, like, I 368 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,880 mean, a lot of people do that stuff, but I know I got, I think 369 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,080 I probably got that from Finn, but I know for a fact he got it 370 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:26,840 from gags. So there's, there's a lot of 371 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:28,080 that. And I, I remember him. 372 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:31,880 I just, you know, I remember him in in fond ways all the time 373 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,760 and, you know, really cherish all the times that he was out 374 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:39,160 here at Stanford a long, you know, along with Jack Daniels. 375 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,640 We had a good dose of him in the in the 2000s. 376 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,560 And I had a chance to as a person who would worn out the 377 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,640 pages of his book, you know, like ask him some direct 378 00:19:47,640 --> 00:19:50,040 questions, like, you know, even about my own performance. 379 00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:52,720 I was like, look, my line's going like this, Jack, like 380 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:58,000 what's you know, I am not, I'm not uniform to your charts. 381 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,840 It's like, well, to tell you the truth, all these tests were done 382 00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:02,440 on like 70 minute half marathoning males. 383 00:20:02,440 --> 00:20:04,080 I'm like, OK, well, that I am not that. 384 00:20:04,240 --> 00:20:06,240 So that probably explains a little bit. 385 00:20:06,240 --> 00:20:09,160 But you know what a what a pleasure and the along with 386 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:13,480 those folks, Jeff Johnson, I mean, just a treasure. 387 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:19,720 It's hard to, you know, hard to overstate just the impact that 388 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,000 someone like that can have on your life. 389 00:20:21,000 --> 00:20:25,400 I know for all the the 90s era farm teamers even, I mean I was. 390 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:29,080 Real average, you know, I was trying to teach. 391 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:31,960 I just, I wasn't good, you know, and Jeff would always find 392 00:20:31,960 --> 00:20:34,160 something positive to say. Even the worst performance. 393 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:36,880 I'd be like, Jeff, you got to yell at me like I, that wasn't 394 00:20:36,880 --> 00:20:39,440 good, you know, like, because Ben would have yelled at me, 395 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:42,880 right? He just, he's so positive. 396 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,280 And so I've been, you know, I still am in touch with Jeff and 397 00:20:46,280 --> 00:20:51,560 I, I am grateful hugely for the impact that he's had just on my 398 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:52,840 life. And like, that, life has 399 00:20:52,840 --> 00:20:54,240 happened to include a lot of coaching. 400 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:57,560 And I just wrote on my Christmas card to him just not too long 401 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:02,440 ago, like, you know, there's a little bit of what he's given me 402 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,520 in, in every, you know, single person that I work with as a 403 00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,360 coach. Did you feel, I guess like at 404 00:21:07,360 --> 00:21:09,880 the time, you know, just hearing like all these influences and 405 00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,240 it's, you know, these are tremendous coaches, but all at 406 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:13,880 the same time, like all guys, right? 407 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:17,440 And, you know, just hearing and having, you know, these chats 408 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,560 with the likes of Dilji Taylor and and Lori Hennes. 409 00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:25,560 It's just like for so many of, you know, the, the coaches that 410 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:27,600 are popping up now, it's like, that's how it was. 411 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:33,440 And like thinking about just sort of the, I, I guess when at 412 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,120 the, at the time in those early coaching years, did you get the 413 00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:40,120 sense that this would be a sustainable career path because 414 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,920 you couldn't see like as many women in this space Or what did 415 00:21:43,920 --> 00:21:46,640 you sort of, you know, think of just the coaching landscape at 416 00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:48,360 the time? Well, 100% not Chris. 417 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:49,840 That's why I didn't last in college. 418 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:52,880 Yeah, in the NCA, right, Yeah. I mean, when I was first 419 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:55,840 pregnant with my eldest daughter, you know, I went in, 420 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,600 you know, into the requisite, you know, time period, you know, 421 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,560 first trimester and, and I was sick as a dog too. 422 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,440 So it like the whole staff knew I was, I was down for the count, 423 00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:06,600 but and the, and the whole team knew, even though I was trying 424 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:08,880 to keep it together, but you know, I went from running with 425 00:22:08,880 --> 00:22:11,400 them every day to like, I'm just going to go for a walk, you 426 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:15,240 know, like nobody was fooled. But I finally went into the HR 427 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:18,800 guy at Stanford and he was like, I was like, Hey, so close the 428 00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,000 door behind and like, you know, so turns out I'm, I'm pregnant 429 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:25,840 And he was like, huh. And like started like looking up 430 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,120 at the shelf or like some sort of manual or whatever. 431 00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:31,280 Like there was just no, it was the wild, complete Wild West. 432 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,320 And a couple of those factors include, you know, coaches, I 433 00:22:34,320 --> 00:22:36,120 think they're still are treated like kind of like faculty 434 00:22:36,120 --> 00:22:39,600 members. There's no big ancient time or 435 00:22:40,120 --> 00:22:44,040 no, it's just, it's just get your job done in the time that 436 00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:46,560 you have allotted. And and then the other thing is 437 00:22:46,560 --> 00:22:49,720 just the craziness of the NCAA and like treating Staffs as 438 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:52,840 human bodies, like a, you know, you have a certain amount of 439 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,160 human bodies you can have working at any particular time. 440 00:22:55,520 --> 00:23:00,480 You know, the whole system was created without expectation that 441 00:23:00,920 --> 00:23:04,640 mothers or men with young families would be in leadership 442 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,720 roles. So like so much of the incident, 443 00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,880 it's just a systemic problem that stems from doing things in 444 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:14,400 the 50s that no longer are quite relevant today. 445 00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,080 So after my second daughter, who's now, you know, graduating 446 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:22,600 college that was born, made the decision to kind of step away, 447 00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,320 but it didn't, it didn't quench my thirst for seeing that 448 00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:28,400 situation improve. And I've spent a lot of time, 449 00:23:29,640 --> 00:23:32,520 you know, I wrote some op eds early and what after I left and, 450 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,000 and wrote a white paper for Stanford that unfortunately had 451 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:37,440 a transition in our leadership that that was sort of that white 452 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:39,080 paper is probably still sitting on the shelf somewhere. 453 00:23:39,080 --> 00:23:45,200 But, and a lot of that examination was with talking to 454 00:23:45,320 --> 00:23:48,400 experts within the university about just kind of broader 455 00:23:49,360 --> 00:23:53,880 employment patterns and, and historical shifts and, and ways 456 00:23:53,880 --> 00:23:56,560 in which, you know, you could kind of create an environment 457 00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,200 that would be more sustainable for, like I said, mothers and 458 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,160 men with young families. And I think there's some 459 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,560 improvements that have been made as like a greater understanding, 460 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:08,400 but it was, it's definitely the Wild West. 461 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,440 I mean, you know, just was figuring it out. 462 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,520 I mean, my daughter was born on December 16th. 463 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,080 She just had her birthday. I was at practice January 7th, 464 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:20,160 you know, like that's not something that I want my 465 00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,800 daughters to experience necessarily, but that's just 466 00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:25,680 kind of the way it was because like what, who was going to 467 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,480 coach those people? You know, like the way that our 468 00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:31,240 staff was currently constructed at that time, you know, it's 469 00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,080 different. And so I think it's just really 470 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:38,640 important that that we don't, for one, leave out men in that. 471 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,320 Like, I think it's important that men, you know, with young 472 00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:45,200 families aren't just like leaving all of the, the workload 473 00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:47,400 to their partners because their jobs are so crazy that they're 474 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:51,960 never home. But I think that just, I love 475 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,760 seeing, let's just suffice to say I love seeing the women who 476 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:59,680 are continuing in the NCAA coaching, just thriving and 477 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,080 doing so well. So I, I want that to continue 478 00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:07,640 and, and anywhere I can be of help just cheering them on or, 479 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,360 you know, as a, just an informal or formal mentor or anything 480 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,120 like that. I, I try to participate in 481 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:18,520 because it's, I think we're all the better for it, you know, and 482 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,520 you know, I've been able to carve out a path, a non 483 00:25:21,520 --> 00:25:24,400 traditional path outside of that environment. 484 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,000 But you know, I want anybody who's really good at coaching to 485 00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:30,080 be coaching and not doing something else because the 486 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:35,120 lifestyle was too crazy. This episode of the Cities Mag 487 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:37,440 podcast is presented by Lollipop. 488 00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:42,440 Fall has finally shown up. The air is a little sharper. 489 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:46,720 The light turns gold. Yeah, it's that time of year 490 00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:50,120 again. 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Lollipop, the runner Soda. 516 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:35,080 Yeah, I guess like can you give me a a little bit of just sort 517 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,480 of the history before, you know, it becomes like the Peninsula 518 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,600 distance club, like the the career path, I guess post 519 00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:45,440 Stanford there. Because I guess nowadays with 520 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,960 this running boom that we're in, it's sort of like there's tons 521 00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:52,040 and tons of clubs and teams that are out there and some have 522 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,960 coaches and some just have, you know, run crew leaders 'cause 523 00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:56,560 that's, it's more of a social setting. 524 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,280 And so I guess when you were, you know, carving out this path, 525 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,680 I guess like, what did, what did the running scene look like? 526 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:04,520 Yeah. So it was kind of in the 527 00:28:04,520 --> 00:28:09,320 aftermath of when GAGS took the team to Oregon following then. 528 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,600 And so there there had wasn't really like a a group of any 529 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,680 sort like right around Stanford campus. 530 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,440 I was because I got so interested in some of that work, 531 00:28:20,280 --> 00:28:24,640 kind of the advocacy work. I actually fell into kind of a, 532 00:28:24,640 --> 00:28:28,200 a part time deal with a with a law professor at Stanford, where 533 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,000 I did. We actually had a huge title 9 534 00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,400 conference brought brought and Billie Jean King and like had a, 535 00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:37,880 a day long convenient. We did another conference called 536 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:40,080 the work family excellence and the female coach. 537 00:28:41,080 --> 00:28:43,560 And so I started doing kind of some some projects like that 538 00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:48,320 along with some other things. And a woman that I'd known in 539 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:52,640 college, she played volleyball. Her name was Chris Paso. 540 00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,480 She'll be surprised that her name's going to be brought up on 541 00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,640 this podcast. But she was a few years ahead of 542 00:28:56,640 --> 00:28:57,720 me. But my roommate in college was a 543 00:28:57,720 --> 00:28:59,240 volleyball player. So I was well familiar with the 544 00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,120 team. And she attended the same church 545 00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:02,960 that we did. And she saw me in the parking 546 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,600 lot 1 day after church and was like, so I'm thinking about 547 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,960 getting into like some running, like, you know, would you coach 548 00:29:08,960 --> 00:29:09,840 me? Like you're kind of like, you're 549 00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:11,000 doing much of nothing now, you know? 550 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:17,720 So, so we started and so she was 35 years old and went from kind 551 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:22,320 of nothing to running 427 in the 1500, which is pretty good, you 552 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,480 know, but like kind of like a random, like what do you kind of 553 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800 do with that? So it was summertime and we kind 554 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,080 of made exhausted the local opportunities. 555 00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:34,200 And at that time there was kind of a USATF club track 556 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,760 championships at Icon. I was like, OK, in the last 557 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,800 couple years it had been won in kind of like 4/21, 4:25. 558 00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:42,320 Someone was like, that's we got to do, that's a good culminating 559 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:43,200 race. It'll be fun. 560 00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,000 Go to New York. It was thing, so we paid 75 561 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:48,880 bucks to become a club so she could register for that thing. 562 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,600 And I made-up Peninsula Distance club because we we had to kind 563 00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:55,440 of by that time we had like a group of like a handful of women 564 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:57,400 kind of working out. I was still kind of working out 565 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:01,400 with them once a week and I was like, well, I don't want to, you 566 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:03,000 know, we had a race Walker among us. 567 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,840 Then I was like, you know, this is maybe we'll someday have para 568 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:08,840 athletes. So I kind of didn't use running, 569 00:30:08,840 --> 00:30:11,800 didn't use track, didn't like I was really specific about it. 570 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:13,760 And that's how we kind of came up with Peninsula Distance Club. 571 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:18,560 So Chris went out and ran that race and now we had a, now we 572 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:23,240 had a USATF club. So I spoke with a woman who was 573 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,680 kind of in school when I was at Oregon, when I was at Stanford 574 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:29,880 and she had just gone from Sport Hill to Brooks. 575 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:32,320 And I kind of pitched like, hey, we got this group of women, 576 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:33,640 there's nothing around here right now. 577 00:30:33,640 --> 00:30:35,760 Like can some stuff flow downhill to us? 578 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,240 So Brooks actually was our first partner back in the day. 579 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:41,880 Actually it was it was Steve de Coker and Jesse Williams at the 580 00:30:41,880 --> 00:30:44,240 time. Like, you know, we're all 150 581 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:46,640 years old. So we had them for a while. 582 00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:49,080 And then Josh Rowe, who I'd known from our time, you know, 583 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,480 putting up snow fence at Stanford and Nike events, things 584 00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,520 like that. He, he transitioned over New 585 00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:57,440 Balance. And so in 2010, I think we 586 00:30:57,440 --> 00:30:59,920 became New Balance Silicon Valley because they were 587 00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:03,360 expanding, They'd taken on CPTC, they'd taken on Pacers. 588 00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:05,200 They were kind of building like a regional strategy. 589 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,880 So we were kind of their, their West Coast outpost for that. 590 00:31:08,880 --> 00:31:11,760 But that also allowed us to open up a men's side. 591 00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:15,520 So we were with New Balance for a great 4-5 years and then 592 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,840 transition to being Strava TC because you know, they were just 593 00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,000 building out their run strategy. So try, you know, just stay 594 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:23,560 ahead of the curve a little bit on these things. 595 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:28,840 And the Co founder of Strava, Mark Gainey, he local masters 596 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:33,240 athlete and you know, been participating in some of some 597 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:35,760 programs and kind of helped coach a couple things that he'd 598 00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:37,840 been a part of. So I knew him and that helped us 599 00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,120 get inroads. So we were Strava TC for about 5 600 00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:44,040 years and then we took back our government name and remained 601 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:47,040 Peninsula Distance Club. And so we, we had a variety of 602 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:49,480 partners. We've been on the apparel side 603 00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:52,840 with Tracksmith since 2020. So it's a little bit of a 604 00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:55,040 winding row, but we've just, you know, we try to stay 605 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:58,880 sustainable. You know, I seen a lot of clubs 606 00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,800 come and go. Part of our theory of the case 607 00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,960 here. It's really expensive in the Bay 608 00:32:03,960 --> 00:32:07,400 Area and you know, seeing the kind of farm chain, 2 point O 609 00:32:07,400 --> 00:32:09,120 with gags and everything kind of come and go. 610 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:11,760 If people would come in from out of town, if things weren't going 611 00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:13,880 well, they were injured, things would kind of, you know, not 612 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:14,760 just roll in the way they thought. 613 00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:16,560 It's kind of like, why am I here? 614 00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:18,960 What am I doing? I'm eating bread and living in 615 00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:21,440 this an expensive apartment. I'm not like what's happening 616 00:32:21,440 --> 00:32:24,480 here. So, you know, we, we don't 617 00:32:24,480 --> 00:32:31,400 recruit and really try to just our, our niche is the layer of 618 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,880 the cake where people are still doing something else because 619 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,280 those folks are here in this area for an alternate reason, 620 00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:41,000 which makes them happier people because they have a reason to be 621 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:42,880 here. And it makes it kind of less 622 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,640 stressful, which I think allows for people to actually run 623 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:48,800 better. So our four categories of people 624 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:52,280 are people who got a job. You know, I get, I just get 625 00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:54,960 calls from random people just being like, hey, I got a job at 626 00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:58,240 Facebook. Somebody on my team or my coach 627 00:32:58,240 --> 00:32:59,360 just told me I should give you a call. 628 00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,520 Just random calls. I got in some grad program, you 629 00:33:04,520 --> 00:33:07,120 know, some school out here and somebody told me I should give 630 00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:10,040 you a call. My partner is doing one of those 631 00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,040 things like, oh, my wife's doing medical residency for four years 632 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,360 at UCSF. I'm going to be out here, you 633 00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,240 know, but I still want to run or fourth, you grew up here and are 634 00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:21,000 coming back. And that's pretty much most of 635 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,360 our folks. And then even if we're to have 636 00:33:24,360 --> 00:33:26,960 all the money in the world, if I were to say, hey, Chris, here's 637 00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,880 like 800 bucks towards your rent this month or whatever, that's 638 00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:33,560 not helping you much because it's crazy expensive and you're 639 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,240 still living in a closet for $3500 a month. 640 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,160 So everybody on our team has some other reason that they're 641 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,320 that they're here. We try to really, I don't love a 642 00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:45,640 lot of admin. So we're just trying to keep the 643 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,880 focus on the running. I kind of say like, look, you've 644 00:33:47,880 --> 00:33:50,480 got stuff going on when I talk to you, I want to talk to you 645 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:52,560 about running. And I think the challenge that 646 00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:55,840 we saw over the like the maybe not as much quite now, but maybe 647 00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,280 like 151015 years ago, there were a lot of these groups that 648 00:33:59,280 --> 00:34:01,800 would come in with like maybe a flash of money for a certain 649 00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:05,720 amount of time from a company to company or a grant that they got 650 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:07,320 or something like that. And then with that they have to 651 00:34:07,320 --> 00:34:09,800 build out like now we got to do clinics for high school kids and 652 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,120 now we got to do, we got to put these races on. 653 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,600 Now we got to do this stuff. And that stuff is great. 654 00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:16,880 Like in my personal life, love that stuff. 655 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:19,120 Philosophically, I'm all about all that stuff. 656 00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,440 Anybody who knows me like the community minded stuff, the big 657 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:26,360 tent stuff, very much in favor of, but for the purposes of PVC, 658 00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,360 we try to keep a really narrow focus. 659 00:34:28,360 --> 00:34:31,760 Like when we wrote our 5O1C3, it's like developed distance 660 00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:36,880 renders, period. Because it's just so hard to 661 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,800 cultivate an an environment of high performance anyway. 662 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,600 And we're already the second thing in people's lives. 663 00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,560 So if we're going to really give people a chance to be the best 664 00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,600 they could be, we just got to keep our focus on the main 665 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,320 thing. And so that's how we've kind of 666 00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:56,320 navigated this environment. You know, maybe there's some 667 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,400 ambition that we that's, that's missing in that strategy. 668 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:04,840 But I think for me, when I go out to training every week or, 669 00:35:04,840 --> 00:35:06,920 you know, on a Tuesday or on a Saturday or whenever we're 670 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,920 getting together, we just had the Christmas party at my house 671 00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:11,320 the other day. When I see the community of 672 00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:14,560 people and I see people who are still running and still being 673 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:19,200 ambitious about their goals into their late 20s and early 30s and 674 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:22,240 giving themselves a chance to be at their physical peak and just 675 00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:24,360 see what's under the hood. Like sometimes it works out, 676 00:35:24,360 --> 00:35:26,840 sometimes it doesn't. Well, we had people who really 677 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:30,640 have had a chance to like, you know, we'll just say screw 678 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:33,600 around and find out in a positive way, you know, and 679 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:38,720 that's, that's I don't, you know, that's all I need on a 680 00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:40,520 given day. And whether that person's fast 681 00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,160 or slow. And so that's what we've kind of 682 00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:45,680 tried to do. And I think that's helped us 683 00:35:46,120 --> 00:35:47,680 just be sustainable over the years. 684 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,480 What is the most fun part and I guess like the most challenging 685 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:55,840 part of this being like the core group of runners that you deal 686 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,040 with where it's not just sort of like the pro runner who's like 687 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,560 you just eat, sleep, run, repeat like every single day. 688 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,680 Like these are people who are going for 9 to fives and then 689 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:11,080 half the, you know, some of them have kids and like having to 690 00:36:11,280 --> 00:36:14,320 squeeze in practice hours or either early in the morning, 691 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,440 late at night. And like it just like, you know, 692 00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:19,160 it's different. It's much different than like I 693 00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,800 guess what was, you know, very structured at Stanford or, or 694 00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:28,000 you know, with pros in the past. Maybe, but we have a lot of 695 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:30,840 people with some really cool life of the mind, some really 696 00:36:30,840 --> 00:36:33,520 creative people, some really, really smart people. 697 00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:39,040 So that just the people is what I enjoy like I am. 698 00:36:40,640 --> 00:36:44,120 I learn everyday just random stuff that I didn't know about, 699 00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:48,320 like stuff unrelated to running, hanging around these folks, just 700 00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:49,560 a really interesting group of folks. 701 00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:52,960 And so I, I cherish that. And I think that most of these 702 00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:57,440 people, if you told them to move to like, you know, a condo at 703 00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,280 altitude and play gin rummy for three, like they would lose 704 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:03,480 their minds. Like the like they're some 705 00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:05,520 people are built for that, you know, and that's a great 706 00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:07,000 environment. Some people are not built for 707 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,960 that and I think it's about most of my life around folks who who 708 00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,080 like having multiple things going on. 709 00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:16,160 I know I myself in that way for sure to the, you know, it's 710 00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:19,240 probably to the chagrin of people including my husband, but 711 00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,800 and a lot of these folks are as well and they live vibrant, 712 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,120 interesting lives. And I love just kind of like the 713 00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,400 stuff that I learned from all of them and the community that they 714 00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,600 make amongst each other. The challenges, of course, are, 715 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:38,000 as you say, like, you know, it's not like we have unlimited 716 00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,000 funds, like we work hard to to raise money. 717 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:43,880 We can't pay for everything for everybody. 718 00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,560 You know, our goal is to kind of, you know, it's just say, 719 00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:49,720 look, we want to make it. So if you're fast enough to do 720 00:37:49,720 --> 00:37:51,720 something, it's not going to be money that stops you from doing 721 00:37:51,720 --> 00:37:52,840 it. You know, we're going to make 722 00:37:52,840 --> 00:37:56,200 sure that the ends beat. So, you know, some of those 723 00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,480 constraints are always a challenge. 724 00:37:57,480 --> 00:38:00,320 But that's just true in any business or anything in life. 725 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,480 It's just a question of your attitude about it and like how 726 00:38:02,480 --> 00:38:03,920 committed you are to figuring things out. 727 00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:09,600 And I think, you know, I don't know. 728 00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,640 I mean, athletics is athletics. You're when somebody has a goal, 729 00:38:12,640 --> 00:38:15,840 whether it's to, you know, qualify for Boston or qualify 730 00:38:15,840 --> 00:38:18,600 for the Olympics, like if they achieve that goal, you're 731 00:38:18,600 --> 00:38:21,120 excited for them. If they don't achieve that goal, 732 00:38:21,480 --> 00:38:24,760 you're super bummed for them. You know, obviously in a 733 00:38:24,760 --> 00:38:28,560 situation where, you know, finances are at play that that 734 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,600 disappointment or excitement is enhanced, but it's still like 735 00:38:31,600 --> 00:38:34,960 the same kind of human, human thing going on. 736 00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:36,360 And you have to you have to weather it. 737 00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,760 So, you know, we're here to be a value add. 738 00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,600 So we work really hard to to do that in people's lives. 739 00:38:44,280 --> 00:38:47,400 How do you approach those goal setting conversations when an 740 00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,280 athlete approaches you and says, Hey, I want to, you know, 741 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,800 qualify for Boston or like even the flashier one would be like, 742 00:38:55,800 --> 00:39:01,360 I want to hit the the OTQ and like, I like it's people are 743 00:39:01,360 --> 00:39:02,760 allowed to dream. And so it's like, how do you 744 00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,160 then foster sort of like that, that goal that they have and at 745 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,560 the same time B in in some cases may be a reality check. 746 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:12,360 So how do you deal with the the goal setting side of things? 747 00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:14,360 A couple things. One thing I learned from Jeff 748 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,920 Johnson to be honest that they carry with me is he was always 749 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:20,440 say don't ever have your goal be to qualify for something because 750 00:39:20,440 --> 00:39:23,600 then once you get there, what are you doing, you know, just 751 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:29,120 taking up a lane or whatever. So, and I think that, and I say 752 00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:32,640 this as a, as a card carrying member of the the women's long 753 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:36,520 distance running committee in the USA, some of these standards 754 00:39:36,800 --> 00:39:39,240 are, you know, a little bit arbitrary in terms of people's 755 00:39:39,240 --> 00:39:41,200 lives. Not honestly arbitrary, but like 756 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:43,440 it's subject to forces you can't control. 757 00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:48,840 And in a variety of things that determines this mark that 758 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:51,640 suddenly becomes like this like gospel thing that like you need 759 00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,680 to hit right. And so you can't let something 760 00:39:55,680 --> 00:40:00,800 like that dictate your, you know, view of yourself. 761 00:40:00,960 --> 00:40:04,280 Obviously, it's a gateway to unlocking some exciting 762 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:06,280 experiences in life. Life is full of experiences. 763 00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,120 You want to experience as much of it as possible. 764 00:40:08,480 --> 00:40:11,400 So I think that, you know, the first thing is to say, look, 765 00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,720 what we're trying to do here is improve, know and get better. 766 00:40:16,360 --> 00:40:21,080 And hopefully that journey takes us to a point where you're able 767 00:40:21,080 --> 00:40:25,560 to experience these things. But it's I can't magic it up 768 00:40:25,840 --> 00:40:30,360 like if you, you know. If you're, if you're not fit 769 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,760 enough to run this time, like I can't magic it up that you're 770 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:33,960 suddenly going to be able to do it. 771 00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:35,480 So we just got to focus on improving. 772 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:39,960 And I try to just, I try to, you know, take a step back from that 773 00:40:39,960 --> 00:40:41,920 stuff and breakdown the component parts of different 774 00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:43,840 things that you would like to get better at. 775 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,520 You know, and like, like I said before, my goal is just to build 776 00:40:46,520 --> 00:40:49,840 a cluster of data points that give the suggestion that what 777 00:40:49,840 --> 00:40:54,520 you're trying to do is possible. And the other thing I talk about 778 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:56,840 a lot is like we kind of build the tower up. 779 00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:00,400 Like we're not starting from like high jumping 78 and like 780 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,240 just trying to jump, you know, until you can clear 7-8. 781 00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:04,800 It's like, look, we're building the tower. 782 00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:06,960 Like I something's called like a Jenga tower, which is not a 783 00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:09,640 great analogy because oftentimes they'll fall down when you pull 784 00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,600 out something. But but just this kind of thing, 785 00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:15,880 you just put a log on the tower. And sometimes that process is, 786 00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:22,000 is slowed by injury, by illness, by variety of things. 787 00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:25,040 But as long as you kind of keep still building the tower, you're 788 00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:28,040 going to, you're going to get there, you know, and that may 789 00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:32,080 be, you know, we have a woman on the team, Jen Odenheimer. 790 00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:38,000 She rent 23740 or something and didn't make the last trials. 791 00:41:39,120 --> 00:41:42,440 And that was a source of much sadness for both of us, you 792 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:44,880 know, and she took a couple of swings out of it. 793 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:46,520 It just couldn't quite get over the line. 794 00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,920 And you know, it just was like slower progressed. 795 00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:56,040 So to run 235 at CIN this year is representative like a large, 796 00:41:56,560 --> 00:41:58,880 a large tower being built. Just some of the progress was 797 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:02,440 slowed at times and but she eventually, she eventually got 798 00:42:02,440 --> 00:42:04,520 there, maybe not necessarily as quickly as she wanted to, but 799 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,400 she kept putting in the work and eventually that came good in the 800 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:10,360 end. So I tried to just just take the 801 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:14,360 pressure off on these, these kind of like I said, it's small 802 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,160 a arbitrary because I know they're arbitrary, but external, 803 00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:23,720 externally placed numbers and just focus on the the personal. 804 00:42:25,000 --> 00:42:26,720 And this is a day-to-day journey. 805 00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,800 Like, nobody's on scholarship, you know? 806 00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:32,640 Let's make sure that we're having, like, a positive 807 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,080 experience here, that you're thriving, not surviving, you 808 00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:39,200 know? The City of Smack podcast is 809 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,480 presented by Gnomeo Performance from the inside out. 810 00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:46,080 You probably saw it, Joe Clecker's marathon debut in New 811 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:51,560 York City 210, a debut that looked composed and strong all 812 00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:54,040 the way throughout. While he's spoken out about the 813 00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,240 importance of fueling a lot on this show, Joe has also been 814 00:42:58,240 --> 00:43:02,640 using Gnomeo in his build up. Gnomeo's built exactly for that 815 00:43:02,640 --> 00:43:05,680 feeling that we're chasing when the training clicks, recovery 816 00:43:05,680 --> 00:43:08,480 feels smoother, and race day legs actually show up. 817 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:12,360 It's a daily 60 milliliter shot, mostly broccoli sprout juice, 818 00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,960 lemon and a such as sugar. But the magic is in the science. 819 00:43:16,240 --> 00:43:20,080 Nearly a decade of research from Sweden's Karolinska Institute 820 00:43:20,080 --> 00:43:23,720 went into stabilizing compounds from cruciferous vegetables, the 821 00:43:23,720 --> 00:43:26,880 stuff that helps your body naturally handle the stress of 822 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:28,480 heart training. We're talking lower lactate, 823 00:43:28,480 --> 00:43:31,280 better recovery, and stronger muscle adaptation. 824 00:43:31,280 --> 00:43:33,920 Athletes like Cole Hawker, Andreas Almgren, Clayton Young, 825 00:43:33,920 --> 00:43:37,240 Nico Young are all using Gnomeo to push a little harder, bounce 826 00:43:37,240 --> 00:43:40,200 back faster, and feel that light on your feet rhythm that we're 827 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,040 all chasing. Let's hear how Joe Clucker has 828 00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,720 been used using Omeo. So at first I was a bit of a 829 00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,680 skeptic of the the product, you know, I was like, what is this? 830 00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,600 But I got it and started using it and then I'll use it like 2 831 00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,360 hours before I'll get up and have it because our workouts are 832 00:43:55,360 --> 00:43:58,080 pretty early. Every workout I'd implement what 833 00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:00,040 I'm going to do on race day into the workout. 834 00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:03,720 So my routine every morning is same breakfast, no meo 3 hours 835 00:44:03,720 --> 00:44:08,320 before I do buy card 2 to 3 hours before and then I'll have 836 00:44:08,320 --> 00:44:10,080 no meal before bed and for recovery. 837 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:14,000 But I wasn't a huge believer and I just did it because they had 838 00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:17,760 sent it to me at first. And then Sage started using it 839 00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:21,760 and she used it at USA for the first time between her rounds 840 00:44:21,880 --> 00:44:26,480 and she was like blown away by how fresh she felt through the 841 00:44:26,480 --> 00:44:27,920 rounds. And obviously, that could just 842 00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:31,240 be fitness and training, but she was like, you know, this was a 843 00:44:31,240 --> 00:44:33,000 new thing she was trying and it really helped her. 844 00:44:33,080 --> 00:44:34,760 And then she did the same in Tokyo. 845 00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:37,760 And like, so now we have that helped me really believe in it a 846 00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:39,040 lot. I'm like, OK, I know she's the 847 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:42,160 fittest she's ever been. But also she starts using this, 848 00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:46,000 you know, this new product and has the best race of her life. 849 00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:48,120 You know, maybe I should keep using it as well. 850 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,200 So yeah, I've been using it every workout, every long run. 851 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,880 The recommended practice is you take one shot 3 hours before a 852 00:44:55,880 --> 00:45:00,200 big workout, a race, or daily during heavy training blocks and 853 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,320 those especially tough days. A second shot before bed can 854 00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:07,600 help your recovery overnight. It's nature meets science, a 855 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:09,640 small routine with a big pay off. 856 00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,080 You can find Gnomeo on the feed and Sidious Mag listeners get 857 00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:18,240 15% off using code Sidious 15 at check out. 858 00:45:18,240 --> 00:45:26,200 That's Citi US15 at thefeed.com. Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. 859 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,040 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is presented by 860 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:36,680 the Wahoo Kicker Run. So at this point in human 861 00:45:36,680 --> 00:45:38,960 history, we all know what a treadmill is. 862 00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:41,400 You either love it or you call it the dreadmill. 863 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:44,720 But what if I told you the treadmill finally got 864 00:45:44,720 --> 00:45:49,600 interesting and fun? Yeah, meet the Wahoo Kicker Run. 865 00:45:49,680 --> 00:45:52,160 It looks like your normal treadmill, but the first time 866 00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,600 you step on it, you realize it's not. 867 00:45:54,840 --> 00:45:57,680 The kicker Run literally responds to you. 868 00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:01,200 Run faster, it speeds up. Ease back, it slows down. 869 00:46:01,640 --> 00:46:05,120 That's called the run free mode and it's exactly what it sounds 870 00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:08,040 like. No buttons to worry about, just 871 00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:10,040 running. That actually feels like 872 00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:13,120 running. You can hook it up to Zwif and 873 00:46:13,120 --> 00:46:14,480 it gets even better. The kicker? 874 00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,880 Run automatically adjusts for climbs and descents, so when 875 00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,320 your avatar is hitting a hill in the virtual world, the deck 876 00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:22,880 tilts up. In real life. 877 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:26,800 You're suddenly feeling that terrain, not just seeing it. 878 00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:32,040 Add in a quiet motor, a buttery smooth belt, and speeds up to 15 879 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,480 mph. It's basically the closest thing 880 00:46:34,480 --> 00:46:37,080 you can get to an outdoor run without leaving your house. 881 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:39,880 We all know those temperatures are starting to drop, so you 882 00:46:39,880 --> 00:46:44,280 might want to get on top of Lock down your Wahoo Kicker Run. 883 00:46:45,240 --> 00:46:48,840 It's premium, it's techie, it's kind of nerdy, and it's a lot of 884 00:46:48,840 --> 00:46:50,640 fun. The Wahoo Kicker Run makes 885 00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:53,640 indoor training something you actually look forward to. 886 00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:57,280 Cole Hawker, the 5000 meter world champion and 1500m Olympic 887 00:46:57,280 --> 00:47:03,320 champion, uses it to supplementhistrainingyoucanlearnmore@wahoofitness.com 888 00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:07,520 CDs Mac Podcast listeners can also unlock a special offer from 889 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,560 now until the end of November. 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The Wahoo Kicker run. 897 00:47:34,440 --> 00:47:36,720 Check it out at wahoofitness.com. 898 00:47:36,840 --> 00:47:40,320 Use Code Sidious at checkout for that special offer. 899 00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,760 I guess like that, that was a great example, I guess that you, 900 00:47:44,840 --> 00:47:49,080 you shared of just like falling shy of, you know, the 237 for 901 00:47:49,080 --> 00:47:51,720 the 2024 trials. And then it's like, I feel like 902 00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:54,480 I've been harping on this in a couple podcast episodes, 903 00:47:54,880 --> 00:47:58,440 episodes now that like, I feel like I remember how amazing 904 00:47:58,640 --> 00:48:02,280 Atlanta was, right? With just the huge numbers of 905 00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:06,760 people who ran under 245, you know, especially on the women's 906 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:11,160 side. And then the goal post moved for 907 00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,920 2:00 to 2:37 for 2024. And there were a couple of 908 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,760 people who, you know, were in Atlanta but weren't in Orlando. 909 00:48:17,920 --> 00:48:21,440 But now I feel like we're getting this extra wave coming 910 00:48:21,440 --> 00:48:26,760 about for wherever the 28 trials end up happening, that it's 911 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,800 people who just stayed in that progression and kept building 912 00:48:30,800 --> 00:48:35,080 their tower and now are securing their spots for the next go 913 00:48:35,080 --> 00:48:37,440 around. I guess like what, when the goal 914 00:48:37,440 --> 00:48:40,800 posts stayed the same for 2:37, I guess, Was that a thought that 915 00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:43,280 you thought? I think there's going to be more 916 00:48:43,280 --> 00:48:46,120 than we saw in Orlando. Yeah, I, I think that's the 917 00:48:46,120 --> 00:48:48,640 expectation. And that, you know, informs the 918 00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:52,000 manner which the committee's kind of came up with, you know, 919 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,640 a, a little bit of a flexible model in terms of the, you know, 920 00:48:56,080 --> 00:48:58,840 where the a standard might land. And yeah, obviously we don't 921 00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:00,840 have the knowledge of where World Athletics is going to go 922 00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:05,200 with some of those things, which will inform some of those 923 00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,920 things. But yeah, like we want to have 924 00:49:08,080 --> 00:49:12,000 the flexibility. We did those town halls to 925 00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:16,160 really make sure that all the dusty corners have been dusted 926 00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:19,280 out of anybody. We just sat on the phone and for 927 00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,520 anybody, you know, if you had something to say, you know, we 928 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:24,400 wanted to make sure you had an opportunity to say it. 929 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:29,000 A lot of what came through there, of course, was enthusiasm 930 00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:34,280 for the larger field size as well as a longer ramp to be able 931 00:49:34,280 --> 00:49:38,520 to plan, whether it's for family planning, which again, I extend 932 00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:41,360 to both men and women as a as a thing. 933 00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:46,440 Ultimately the job of the governing body, you know, Ted 934 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:50,720 Stevens, amateur sports, acting, whatever, like is to pick teams 935 00:49:51,120 --> 00:49:52,440 like you're sanctioned to pick teams. 936 00:49:52,440 --> 00:49:54,920 That is that is it like literally that's that's all you. 937 00:49:55,000 --> 00:49:57,800 And so everything else flows from that. 938 00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,520 Like it's, it's a development. All that stuff really is 939 00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:02,640 secondary just picking teams. So you always have to keep that 940 00:50:02,640 --> 00:50:04,200 at the front of the front of mine. 941 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:07,680 But we all know, of course, everybody involved in the 942 00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:11,960 process, everybody involved you yourself, like we're all here 943 00:50:11,960 --> 00:50:14,520 because we want to see people continue to thrive and enjoy 944 00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:16,640 running and like have the sport grow and all that stuff. 945 00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,040 So like obviously that's a big factor too. 946 00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:23,400 So I think everybody's excited to have a little broader field. 947 00:50:23,680 --> 00:50:26,920 I had a little side bet with Kevin Hansen like before the 948 00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,080 last trials about I think I was forgetting exactly what he was 949 00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:32,440 saying. They'd be less than 100 and or 950 00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,040 anyway, whatever I was. And I was like, I'm not going to 951 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,320 bet against women trying to hit the Olympic trial standard in 952 00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:39,080 the marathon. Like that's a group of people 953 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,680 that I'm not betting against. And yeah, so I think it's taking 954 00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,400 a little bit of time for people to reset. 955 00:50:44,400 --> 00:50:48,040 I think that two 45247 standard is kind of like I can do 956 00:50:48,040 --> 00:50:51,320 investment banking and run 10 miles after work and like, still 957 00:50:51,320 --> 00:50:54,840 like, you know, operate at a level where I can maybe hit that 958 00:50:54,840 --> 00:50:57,680 standard. Whereas 237 is like, OK, you 959 00:50:57,680 --> 00:50:59,640 know, I got to put my big girl pants on. 960 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:02,960 And like, you know, this is going to have to be a real 961 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:06,600 endeavor in a way that the other standards. 962 00:51:06,600 --> 00:51:10,880 But you know, progress continues unabated here. 963 00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:15,120 And I think obviously equipment, shoes, technology, that's all 964 00:51:15,120 --> 00:51:17,800 helpful. I know there's different views 965 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:22,000 on shoes, but I just love the fact that it makes it so much 966 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:25,960 fun and just the ability for people to bounce back in 967 00:51:25,960 --> 00:51:31,080 training, I think is just is enjoyable. 968 00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:36,000 So all those factors combined and I think people just having 969 00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:39,840 ambitious, like just I think Atlanta, it gave people the idea 970 00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:42,040 that like this is something that a lot of people can approach and 971 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,120 do. And I think that's never gone 972 00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,520 away, even though Orlando was a smaller field. 973 00:51:46,840 --> 00:51:50,760 I guess going back to just your background with having played 974 00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:54,080 soccer, you know, at Stanford, while at the same time being on 975 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,920 the track team, then basketball even like in the high school 976 00:51:57,920 --> 00:51:59,600 days. But it's just sort of like the 977 00:51:59,600 --> 00:52:01,800 the the multi sport side of things. 978 00:52:01,800 --> 00:52:05,960 And I feel like in this, you know, again, back to the the 979 00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,080 present day running boom, that there are so many people in 980 00:52:09,080 --> 00:52:12,600 those, you know, developmental fields that are chasing Olympic 981 00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:16,280 trials, qualifying standards, BQS, all this stuff that they 982 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:18,280 come from. No running background in high 983 00:52:18,280 --> 00:52:21,320 school or in college. What's that like, I guess for 984 00:52:21,320 --> 00:52:26,840 you as a coach when you can spot some talent in, in, in, in 985 00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,720 someone who's getting into running and also wants and and 986 00:52:29,720 --> 00:52:32,640 then I guess like fostering that because, you know, maybe their 987 00:52:32,640 --> 00:52:36,400 legs don't have as many miles as us from having run in high 988 00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:39,640 school and in college. But, you know, they they were 989 00:52:39,760 --> 00:52:42,320 someone who was really talented in soccer. 990 00:52:42,320 --> 00:52:46,160 And that can go a long way in your 30s as they pursue, you 991 00:52:46,160 --> 00:52:49,680 know, something as big as a, you know, a standard for one of 992 00:52:49,680 --> 00:52:50,720 these races. Yeah. 993 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:53,120 Like what's that like, I guess? And how do you, how do you, how 994 00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:55,440 do you guys rely on your background in that? 995 00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,840 You know, so some of that's why we don't have standards for our 996 00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:00,280 club. We, it's not, it's not a big 997 00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:02,040 tent club. It's a, it's a smaller club. 998 00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:05,040 So it's, it's, that's a, it's kind of a squishy process. 999 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:09,000 But you know, Jen, who I mentioned before, she came to us 1000 00:53:09,000 --> 00:53:12,440 as a 257 person was kind of like, well, I know I can run 1001 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:14,920 pretty well, but I think I can be a lot better. 1002 00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,440 She didn't necessarily have the traditional, she didn't go into 1003 00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,400 footlocker or something in high school or just, you know, that 1004 00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:22,560 she played some tennis. I love a soccer player 1005 00:53:23,520 --> 00:53:27,360 participating in the fact maybe. You know, the one thing I 1006 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:31,080 remember is you're probably too young to remember Katie and 1007 00:53:31,080 --> 00:53:35,360 Amanda Trotter, twins out of Red Bank, NJ Yeah. 1008 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:37,800 And they ran really well for Stanford during their time 1009 00:53:37,800 --> 00:53:40,360 there, including for you. And I was coaching them for the 1010 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:42,600 first couple years and the senior year. 1011 00:53:42,600 --> 00:53:46,080 They were committed to to playing soccer and I and I was 1012 00:53:46,080 --> 00:53:48,080 like, great. You know, they're like with the 1013 00:53:48,080 --> 00:53:49,840 cross country coach. She really wants us to come out 1014 00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:51,920 and like, I was like, stick with the soccer. 1015 00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,800 I was like, I I'm, I'm, I'm good. 1016 00:53:54,800 --> 00:53:56,480 You're going to run plenty of cross country here. 1017 00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,320 Your track times are great. I'm good, you know, And at the 1018 00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:03,240 end of the day, they decided, well, you know, we're going to 1019 00:54:03,240 --> 00:54:05,200 do cross country. And then Katie ended up taking 1020 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,160 second Foot Locker, which shows how much I know because I'm like 1021 00:54:09,160 --> 00:54:12,560 telling her play soccer. She's like, you know, runner up 1022 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,200 at the national meet anyway. But yeah, I love a soccer 1023 00:54:16,200 --> 00:54:18,040 player. But more importantly, I think, 1024 00:54:19,360 --> 00:54:23,080 you know, one of the things we talk about our team is if 1025 00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:26,120 everybody's giving 51 percent or more and never taking more than 1026 00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,720 49%, your ecosystem kind of or always going to be in balance. 1027 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:33,120 But if everybody is never willing to give more than 49% 1028 00:54:33,120 --> 00:54:36,400 and they're always taking at least 51%, then the ecosystem is 1029 00:54:36,400 --> 00:54:39,400 never going to be in balance. And so we just try to keep an 1030 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:41,880 environment where people are waiting for other people to go 1031 00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:44,160 to the bathroom and give each other rides, taking a turn at 1032 00:54:44,160 --> 00:54:46,480 the lead, you know, doing just the little things. 1033 00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,560 And a lot of times that experience, it comes from team 1034 00:54:49,560 --> 00:54:51,760 sports. I find, you know, I know as a 1035 00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:57,080 coach at the collegiate level, I definitely look for women who I 1036 00:54:57,080 --> 00:54:59,640 remember Ariana Lambie and she was in high school, there was 1037 00:54:59,640 --> 00:55:04,840 one year where she was running real well and took like a team 1038 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:07,640 of like 3 sophomores and her, they had like a 4 by 8 that she 1039 00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:10,480 went to like like indoor nationals and just run the floor 1040 00:55:10,480 --> 00:55:12,120 by instead of running her individual event. 1041 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:15,280 And I was like, that's my girl. Because, you know, she knew she 1042 00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,480 was going to get all the flowers for her stuff individually 1043 00:55:18,480 --> 00:55:21,400 throughout the year. But those 3 sophomores, you 1044 00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:23,440 know, whatever the case was, you know, that's like a really 1045 00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:25,600 special experience. And somebody who's kind of 1046 00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:29,280 attuned to those types of things, I think is the type of 1047 00:55:29,280 --> 00:55:32,960 person that's going to be able to kind of ride out the ups and 1048 00:55:32,960 --> 00:55:38,400 downs of of the sport and be able to just, you know, maximize 1049 00:55:38,400 --> 00:55:41,440 the team environment, which is what we that's the point of us 1050 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:42,920 is like have that team environment. 1051 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,240 So I think obviously the athleticism of other sports, I'm 1052 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:49,040 definitely in favor of. I think we know from the work of 1053 00:55:49,760 --> 00:55:55,280 Doctor Adam 1040, another, you know, Brandon Stanford guy, that 1054 00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:58,200 the incidents of bone injuries are really, really, really 1055 00:55:58,200 --> 00:56:00,880 reduced, particularly among boys, but also certainly among 1056 00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,080 girls or some other factors with their with girls, but by doing 1057 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:07,480 ball sports at an early age. So we do want to encourage that, 1058 00:56:07,480 --> 00:56:09,280 obviously. But I do think in the case of 1059 00:56:09,280 --> 00:56:12,840 Maya Weigel, another woman who wins for PC, you know, she told 1060 00:56:12,840 --> 00:56:14,960 me the only time she ever made it to the state meet was in the 1061 00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:21,080 4 by 4, you know, and here she is, you know, top five at the 1062 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,400 national meet in the in the marathon and, you know, onto our 1063 00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:30,160 fair Olympic trials. And but having, you know, having 1064 00:56:30,160 --> 00:56:33,720 people play team sports I think is nothing but good. 1065 00:56:33,720 --> 00:56:36,040 And so obviously cross country can be a team sport, but those 1066 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:37,920 other ball sports, I think definitely give you some 1067 00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:40,440 components of toughness and things like that that are 1068 00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,120 helpful. Yeah, you've mentioned, I guess 1069 00:56:42,120 --> 00:56:46,120 like, you know, just the team atmosphere, what it what would 1070 00:56:46,120 --> 00:56:48,040 that look like and how can you describe it? 1071 00:56:48,040 --> 00:56:51,240 I guess like if someone showed up to, you know, watch a 1072 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,320 practice, like, yeah, I feel like it. 1073 00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:57,800 Is it a little similar to I, I guess I was part of Central Park 1074 00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:01,000 Track Club for a couple years and you know, we had, you know, 1075 00:57:01,240 --> 00:57:04,600 Devon coaching and then there'd be the masters and then, you 1076 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:06,680 know, just the, the sub elite crew. 1077 00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:09,600 And then I'd be just thrown in there somewhere. 1078 00:57:09,600 --> 00:57:12,160 And I guess like there's a lot of orchestrating that needs to 1079 00:57:12,160 --> 00:57:14,800 take place when you've got so many different variety of 1080 00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,280 groups. So what's it look like? 1081 00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:18,000 I guess over on the West Coast with you? 1082 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,120 Yeah. Well, first of all, Devin, 1083 00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:22,160 somebody who I think is doing an amazing job and I look to her 1084 00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,360 for guidance on on a variety of things. 1085 00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:26,800 And it's exciting to see. I want to be in her position 1086 00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:29,560 with such a large historic club and continue to keep that club, 1087 00:57:29,720 --> 00:57:32,320 you know, maybe from success to success. 1088 00:57:33,840 --> 00:57:35,080 Yeah. I mean, we don't really. 1089 00:57:35,080 --> 00:57:37,960 I think one of the things I got from my college experience at 1090 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,920 Stanford where we both genders were kind of mixed and mingled 1091 00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:46,080 together a little bit during my time both as an athlete and with 1092 00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:50,160 the approaching. So, you know, PDC, if you, you 1093 00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:53,960 know, we don't like the the pace groups are kind of separated by 1094 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:57,120 pace, not necessarily by gender, you know, for one thing. 1095 00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:01,360 And you know, 2 obviously there's times where if you have 1096 00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,040 a middle distance person with a set of strengths, you know, 1097 00:58:04,040 --> 00:58:06,840 mixing in with a more of a longer distance person, you 1098 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,400 know, I definitely try to. The whole point of us being 1099 00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:12,200 there is to maximize that environment. 1100 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:16,200 So I've appreciated the trust of the athletes. 1101 00:58:16,200 --> 00:58:19,720 I think sometimes when I'm kind of mixing and mingling people in 1102 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:22,240 different ways to try to get the most out of people. 1103 00:58:22,240 --> 00:58:26,800 And so I appreciate the I think there's an understanding that 1104 00:58:26,800 --> 00:58:28,760 it, there is a little bit of that going on. 1105 00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,320 And I think people are pretty comfortable with that. 1106 00:58:32,320 --> 00:58:37,720 Don't there's not a lot of ego. And I think that the the women, 1107 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,840 right, who ran so well at CIMI think in particular this fall 1108 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:44,680 did a did a really nice job of accepting that, that they've got 1109 00:58:44,680 --> 00:58:47,000 a variety of strengths. Some of them come from like a 1110 00:58:47,000 --> 00:58:49,160 more the middle distance background, have that like extra 1111 00:58:49,160 --> 00:58:51,720 gear, and some of them come from a real strength background and 1112 00:58:51,720 --> 00:58:54,720 are like, you know, the steady eddies of the group. 1113 00:58:54,840 --> 00:58:57,640 And so not necessarily getting wrapped around the axle. 1114 00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:01,120 If like somebody just like, you know, starts hauling the last 1115 00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:03,640 rap. And maybe that's not you or you 1116 00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:05,240 know what I'm saying, Like everybody kind of had their 1117 00:59:05,440 --> 00:59:08,240 their strengths and the things they were trying to work on and 1118 00:59:08,240 --> 00:59:12,080 weren't necessarily, I think they did a good job of not 1119 00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:16,960 necessarily placing some sort of rank order value on somebody 1120 00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:18,960 shining on a particular day, because often times it was 1121 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:20,880 somebody else kind of shining on a different day. 1122 00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:25,560 And particularly we've had a number of good athletes through 1123 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,600 the recent time period where they've all gotten their butt 1124 00:59:28,600 --> 00:59:30,560 cakes a time or, you know, butt cake a time or two. 1125 00:59:30,680 --> 00:59:34,880 So you know, it's all right. One thing I think I had just 1126 00:59:34,880 --> 00:59:39,360 sort of as like some trepidation or just like nerves when before 1127 00:59:39,360 --> 00:59:41,880 I even showed up to my first like Central Park track club 1128 00:59:41,880 --> 00:59:44,280 practice was that it was like, well, when they've got such a 1129 00:59:44,280 --> 00:59:49,640 like a great sub elite group, Like I was expecting everyone to 1130 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:53,000 be just like pushed to their limits and running crazy fast 1131 00:59:53,000 --> 00:59:56,000 the entire time in practice. And that wasn't like the case. 1132 00:59:56,000 --> 00:59:59,440 And so I feel like similarly, I guess on your side, just like to 1133 00:59:59,440 --> 01:00:02,440 hit that developmental, you know, side of things and make 1134 01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,560 sure that it no one just exhausted, you know, going into 1135 01:00:05,560 --> 01:00:08,360 the next workout. You you also, you know, I guess 1136 01:00:08,440 --> 01:00:12,360 kind of hold back and it's like it's not no one, not I sometimes 1137 01:00:12,360 --> 01:00:15,120 see like the the British athletes in in the UK and like 1138 01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:17,720 they have something where they're just always laid out on 1139 01:00:17,720 --> 01:00:19,240 the ground. After practice, but it's like, 1140 01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:21,840 that's what I was picturing and it's not the case, I guess. 1141 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:25,680 Like, you know, when it's a club like Central Park or Peninsula 1142 01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,520 it seems like. Yeah, and I think you have to 1143 01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,360 pick your spots, you know, there, I think there is a time 1144 01:00:30,360 --> 01:00:36,160 and a place to empty the tank. But I I kind of come from the 1145 01:00:36,160 --> 01:00:38,360 perspective of it and maybe it's a weakness on my part. 1146 01:00:38,720 --> 01:00:41,120 I don't necessarily like to answer the question in practice. 1147 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:43,800 Like I said, I'm trying to create a cluster of data points. 1148 01:00:44,080 --> 01:00:46,000 So if I can answer the question in practice and why do we need 1149 01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:50,840 to raise, you know, so, but there is a time or two where you 1150 01:00:50,840 --> 01:00:53,520 do need to run hard in order to just be prepared for the, the 1151 01:00:53,520 --> 01:00:57,080 stresses of race day. But we try to make that, you 1152 01:00:57,080 --> 01:00:59,680 know, real deliberate when that happens. 1153 01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:03,000 I think there's two goals most of the time in running 1 is to 1154 01:01:03,000 --> 01:01:06,200 get there faster and one is to get there looking good, you 1155 01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:07,920 know, or with as less pain as possible. 1156 01:01:07,960 --> 01:01:11,760 So, you know, we try to do both. There's a lot of times, 1157 01:01:11,760 --> 01:01:14,080 obviously, like you said, sometimes it's running the pace, 1158 01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:17,160 but looking like 1,000,000 bucks at that pace and being able to 1159 01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:20,560 recover and, and you know, and adapt and like that's, that's 1160 01:01:20,560 --> 01:01:22,520 great. And then I, you know, so I think 1161 01:01:23,800 --> 01:01:26,680 I try to just pay attention and if there's a moment where it 1162 01:01:26,680 --> 01:01:30,120 seems like somebody has it there to give and there's going to 1163 01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,720 likely be not a lot of downside to, to, you know, pushing the 1164 01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:37,920 outside of the envelope. And if then, you know, we push 1165 01:01:37,920 --> 01:01:42,240 it, but that's, but just try to be really discriminating about 1166 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,640 those moments. Before we get to just sort of 1167 01:01:44,640 --> 01:01:47,200 like a fun game I like to play where we go through like 1168 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:49,480 coaching elements and you tell me if they're overrated, 1169 01:01:49,480 --> 01:01:52,840 underrated. I kind of want to hear just 1170 01:01:52,840 --> 01:01:56,000 like, what do you like race day morning for your athletes? 1171 01:01:56,000 --> 01:02:00,400 Like are you the rah rah pep talk at the, you know, into the 1172 01:02:00,400 --> 01:02:02,560 final moments? Or is it just sort of like a 1173 01:02:02,560 --> 01:02:05,400 shorter final couple words of encouragement? 1174 01:02:05,400 --> 01:02:07,480 What do you what do you like on race day morning? 1175 01:02:08,040 --> 01:02:13,200 I try not to be too crazy animated overly so I try to just 1176 01:02:13,200 --> 01:02:16,160 be consistent. Like I try to be who I am most 1177 01:02:16,160 --> 01:02:17,840 of the time. Like try to be generally 1178 01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:24,560 positive and kind of level. You know, sometimes talk about 1179 01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:28,080 like in a like sometimes people know like in a 10K, you know, if 1180 01:02:28,080 --> 01:02:31,440 I'm sitting there at the top curb, you know, like saying 1181 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:34,760 splits or whatever, like is my if they'll know if they're doing 1182 01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:40,600 it, if it's going well by like how intense, like, you know, you 1183 01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:42,520 know, like the first couple miles. 1184 01:02:43,080 --> 01:02:47,280 So I know I try to be kind of level, you know, just be who I 1185 01:02:47,280 --> 01:02:48,880 am everyday. I'm not necessarily I'm not a 1186 01:02:48,880 --> 01:02:52,520 huge. I can only be who I am, you know 1187 01:02:52,760 --> 01:02:54,280 I. Yeah, there's no any given 1188 01:02:54,280 --> 01:02:56,280 Sunday speech like in the in the final. 1189 01:02:56,280 --> 01:02:59,440 Moment there is that's usually been given in a on a previous 1190 01:02:59,440 --> 01:03:02,320 day in a thing. OK, sometimes there's a there's 1191 01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:05,760 a time for like, you know, this is where this is a line in the 1192 01:03:05,760 --> 01:03:09,800 sand, you know where you stay, I think and just try to be level 1193 01:03:09,800 --> 01:03:13,120 and normal and not introduce additional variables into the 1194 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:16,240 into the situation. Perhaps I should be more crazy, 1195 01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,920 but that would people would be like, why is she being so crazy? 1196 01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,280 You know, like you got to be who I am. 1197 01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,320 And then afterwards, I guess like, you know, I guess maybe 1198 01:03:24,320 --> 01:03:27,920 take me to CIM and just sort of like the post race celebration, 1199 01:03:27,920 --> 01:03:30,800 like what was that like? That I was just basically 1200 01:03:30,960 --> 01:03:35,160 walking around the Capitol Park, like just like tears, like just 1201 01:03:35,720 --> 01:03:37,600 I couldn't figure out how to get to the finish area. 1202 01:03:37,600 --> 01:03:39,960 So I was just like rambling around, like refreshing the 1203 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:41,840 thing and like texting our Slack. 1204 01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,320 So that was just yeah, I was that was pretty emotional that 1205 01:03:45,320 --> 01:03:47,680 day. I typically get crazy emotional. 1206 01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:50,160 Sometimes I will get pretty excited, but, you know, 1207 01:03:50,160 --> 01:03:54,240 sometimes it's obviously there's big moments that are universally 1208 01:03:54,240 --> 01:03:56,280 understood to be big moments. And sometimes there's big 1209 01:03:56,280 --> 01:03:58,600 moments that like maybe an outsider would be like, why are 1210 01:03:58,600 --> 01:04:00,320 they so excited? And it might be just something 1211 01:04:00,560 --> 01:04:02,560 just like between you and the athlete or just something 1212 01:04:02,560 --> 01:04:04,760 amongst the group that, you know, is just like a really big 1213 01:04:04,760 --> 01:04:07,920 deal. So sometimes I'll be really 1214 01:04:07,920 --> 01:04:10,040 excited about those things because it'll just be a big 1215 01:04:10,040 --> 01:04:11,200 deal. Even though it made to the 1216 01:04:11,200 --> 01:04:12,640 outside world, it won't seem like it. 1217 01:04:14,520 --> 01:04:17,680 Yeah, I, I love seeing people achieve their goals. 1218 01:04:17,680 --> 01:04:19,800 That's that's it. That's like crack for me. 1219 01:04:19,960 --> 01:04:23,680 So sometimes that takes different forms, big and small, 1220 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:29,240 and so I love the feeling of being excited for somebody when 1221 01:04:29,240 --> 01:04:31,400 they've achieved the goal. All right, let's play the game 1222 01:04:31,400 --> 01:04:35,200 of overrated, underrated. You tell me your thoughts and 1223 01:04:35,200 --> 01:04:38,760 you can quickly justify, I guess, like your opinions on 1224 01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,000 each, but we'll start with altitude. 1225 01:04:41,000 --> 01:04:43,560 Overrated, underrated. And maybe you could squeeze in a 1226 01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:45,640 couple of like properly rated, Yeah. 1227 01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:48,480 I think properly rated, I think one thing to remember, altitude 1228 01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:50,720 is going to improve your performance 3 to 4%, but you're 1229 01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,680 miserable. You know, you got to balance 1230 01:04:53,800 --> 01:04:56,720 what that three 4% might be lost in the other side. 1231 01:04:56,920 --> 01:04:59,840 So but altitude seems like it works pretty well. 1232 01:04:59,840 --> 01:05:02,880 We've established that. So I think properly rated. 1233 01:05:04,400 --> 01:05:09,280 Cross training while healthy. Properly rated, I mean for the 1234 01:05:09,280 --> 01:05:12,200 right person that is. That is the the path to the 1235 01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,400 rainbow waterfall for sure. All right, the next one is Super 1236 01:05:15,400 --> 01:05:18,120 Shoes. Properly rated, they're super, 1237 01:05:18,480 --> 01:05:20,840 but a lot of things that are super, you know it can't be your 1238 01:05:20,840 --> 01:05:24,000 birthday every day, so you know, don't eat cake 7 * a week. 1239 01:05:24,480 --> 01:05:27,000 And so for most of your athletes, I guess like are they 1240 01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,200 wearing super shoes in in the workouts or like you're just 1241 01:05:30,200 --> 01:05:32,160 like whatever personal preference for each athlete. 1242 01:05:33,680 --> 01:05:38,760 Yeah, most of the time in like, you know, kind of a the probably 1243 01:05:38,760 --> 01:05:43,400 the 2:00-ish primary, you know, big meat and potatoes type 1244 01:05:43,400 --> 01:05:45,720 sessions in a week. They they'd wear them for 1245 01:05:46,880 --> 01:05:48,760 sometimes not for their own reasons. 1246 01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,840 Like I said, I, I like them because they allow you to 1247 01:05:52,840 --> 01:05:57,480 recover a little bit easier too. But I don't know that I would 1248 01:05:57,480 --> 01:05:59,840 necessarily. I'm on the side of like wearing 1249 01:05:59,840 --> 01:06:01,520 every day. All right. 1250 01:06:01,560 --> 01:06:06,800 Blood lactate testing. Again, like I am not coming from 1251 01:06:06,800 --> 01:06:09,080 the scientist side. So I think properly rated, I 1252 01:06:09,080 --> 01:06:12,360 think information is good. Generally information is good. 1253 01:06:12,360 --> 01:06:16,280 But just like technology or like wearing a whoop, all these 1254 01:06:16,280 --> 01:06:19,560 things, you know, like you got to stay in charge on that stuff. 1255 01:06:19,560 --> 01:06:22,720 Like you can't be like when my whoop says XYZ, therefore I'm 1256 01:06:22,720 --> 01:06:24,720 going to lie on my bed all day, OK. 1257 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:28,960 But like who's in charge here? You know, like stay in charge of 1258 01:06:28,960 --> 01:06:31,080 the data. Yeah, are so similar feelings 1259 01:06:31,080 --> 01:06:38,000 towards bicarb. Again, like, I'm not really that 1260 01:06:38,000 --> 01:06:40,360 concerned as to whether or not it's actually helping or whether 1261 01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:44,160 it makes you think it's helping. If the result is that you feel 1262 01:06:44,160 --> 01:06:48,240 better and you run faster and it's not breaking any laws or 1263 01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:52,720 some sort of, you know, moral things, I'm not against it, you 1264 01:06:52,720 --> 01:06:55,400 know, and certainly for some people it seems like it helps. 1265 01:06:55,800 --> 01:07:00,200 I that's fine all. Right B use track. 1266 01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,960 B. Use track Well, I'm old enough 1267 01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:06,880 to remember BU's old track, which was similarly steep and 1268 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:12,680 similarly fast. I think that with BU we just got 1269 01:07:12,680 --> 01:07:16,240 to make sure that I just don't know how how we don't have like 1270 01:07:16,240 --> 01:07:19,120 a ton of people just get hit and like like it's just a lot of 1271 01:07:19,120 --> 01:07:22,080 people. That's actually the my primary 1272 01:07:22,080 --> 01:07:24,680 concern that that the efficient all that stuff like just being 1273 01:07:24,680 --> 01:07:29,400 like a not just completely crazy pants environment more than I 1274 01:07:29,400 --> 01:07:31,720 end up that running. But yeah, I mean, who doesn't 1275 01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:33,360 like to run? Like just the sensation of 1276 01:07:33,360 --> 01:07:35,800 running faster on a track like that, you know? 1277 01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:39,600 I mean, that's the sweet nectar we all, you know, we all love. 1278 01:07:40,640 --> 01:07:43,880 Strides. Oh yeah, properly rated, I mean, 1279 01:07:43,880 --> 01:07:47,240 or like I I mean, underrated. Underrated perhaps. 1280 01:07:47,400 --> 01:07:51,840 Yeah, I'm a I'm a. Strides are good. 1281 01:07:52,320 --> 01:07:53,640 Hills. Hills are good. 1282 01:07:54,840 --> 01:07:57,040 I think hills are. I think hills are probably 1283 01:07:57,040 --> 01:08:00,200 underrated. I would say I would very much 1284 01:08:00,200 --> 01:08:02,200 like hills. I guess the last one I've got is 1285 01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:05,200 jogging rest. Let's call it active rest, let's 1286 01:08:05,200 --> 01:08:07,800 call it floating rest. I think like everything else, 1287 01:08:07,800 --> 01:08:12,360 there's a time and a place, but it's that's a workout that I, 1288 01:08:12,560 --> 01:08:15,000 that workouts like that are ones that I love to give and it was 1289 01:08:15,000 --> 01:08:18,840 terrible to do as an athlete. So they're probably good for you 1290 01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:22,200 in that respect. Well, Coach Evans, I appreciate 1291 01:08:22,200 --> 01:08:25,120 you taking the time for this. This was a ton of fun. 1292 01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:29,439 And it's also fun that like there are no breaks in this 1293 01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:31,000 sport. Like you've got athletes getting 1294 01:08:31,000 --> 01:08:34,000 ready to line up for club cross country championships. 1295 01:08:34,000 --> 01:08:36,640 There's probably a couple other marathons that are coming up 1296 01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:39,840 soon as well. And so, so that's, that's the, 1297 01:08:39,840 --> 01:08:42,319 that's what brings us all joy in the sport and, and you're making 1298 01:08:42,319 --> 01:08:43,960 a difference in so many athletes lives. 1299 01:08:43,960 --> 01:08:47,680 And so it was great to get to pick your brain about your 1300 01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:49,399 coaching philosophy and a little bit of your story. 1301 01:08:49,680 --> 01:08:53,600 Well, thanks, Chris. It's it's, I'm glad to be able 1302 01:08:53,600 --> 01:08:55,640 to be on your show and I appreciate all that you're doing 1303 01:08:55,640 --> 01:08:57,920 to amplify the stories in our sport. 1304 01:08:58,040 --> 01:09:01,920 Seriously, like it makes a huge difference and every little bit 1305 01:09:01,920 --> 01:09:05,920 of that helps. And we just want people growing 1306 01:09:05,920 --> 01:09:07,760 up and feeling like it's something they can do for their 1307 01:09:07,760 --> 01:09:09,439 lifetime and something they can do at a high level. 1308 01:09:09,439 --> 01:09:12,399 So appreciate you highlighting those stories and enjoy the 1309 01:09:12,399 --> 01:09:16,200 chance to talk to you today. Thank you all for listening to 1310 01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:18,040 this episode. This episode was produced by 1311 01:09:18,040 --> 01:09:20,520 Jasmine Fair. I love doing this for you guys. 1312 01:09:20,520 --> 01:09:23,479 So please do me a favor and leave a five star view on Apple 1313 01:09:23,479 --> 01:09:25,640 Podcast or Spotify. That helps us grow the show and 1314 01:09:25,640 --> 01:09:28,520 get even more awesome guests. Let me know what you're enjoying 1315 01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:30,479 about the show. Make sure you're subscribed or 1316 01:09:30,479 --> 01:09:32,200 following on your favorite podcast. 1317 01:09:32,200 --> 01:09:34,680 Players, please share this episode with your friends if you 1318 01:09:34,680 --> 01:09:37,040 think that they'll get any value or inspiration out of it. 1319 01:09:37,040 --> 01:09:40,080 Let's build this thing together. Visit sidiousmag.com for a lot 1320 01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:41,399 more. We've got a brand new website 1321 01:09:41,399 --> 01:09:43,520 with tons more articles, videos and podcasts. 1322 01:09:43,720 --> 01:09:45,479 As always, I love track and field. 1323 01:09:45,600 --> 01:09:47,600 I'm Chris Chavez, see you next time.