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Why? 
Toronto for a number of reasons,

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you know, like being able to run
in Canada is always awesome. 

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I run Ottawa 10K plenty of 
times. 

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I got to run Toronto the year 
they didn't have the marathon. 

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They did 10K here. 
But in general, like I really 

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don't get to is it? 
Can you guys hear me all right 

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on this? 
OK, cool. 

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I don't really get to run in 
Canada as much as I would like. 

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So to have an amazing, you know,
high profile race in Canada, if 

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it aligns with the schedule, I 
want to do it. 

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And then more so with the debut,
I thought it just aligned really

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well with my personal goals. 
I thought this was a place where

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I could really practice staying 
patient, not kind of get like 

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sucked into some distractions 
that could leave to maybe more 

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significant mistakes. 
Course is good. 

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You know? 
It's not. 

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I know conditions can be tough, 
but generally I felt like this 

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was a good place to stay 
disciplined on the first one and

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try to come out of it feeling 
like OK the next one I can go 

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faster. 
Yeah. 

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So what are some of those? 
Goals that you've. 

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Kind of set for yourself. 
And then how did we arrive at 

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that, you know, over the course 
of 1416 weeks, however long this

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build has been? 
Yeah, the main goal is to win 

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the Canadian championship. 
You know, anytime you there's a 

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Canadian title on the line, I 
want to win. 

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And I feel like it's a very 
realistic but challenging goal, 

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which is kind of a perfect fit 
for any type of goal setting. 

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The time I'm not so worried 
about, which I'm now coming to 

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terms with because when you 
watch a whole year of marathons,

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all you can do is compare 
yourself to, you know, 

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specifically guys like Rory 
Linklater, who's running amazing

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right now. 
And Rory and I are just in like 

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such different places, you know,
as a very experienced 

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marathoner. 
So I'm trying to take the edge 

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off and not get so worried about
the time and let that come a bit

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more naturally because, you 
know, the last quarter of a 5K 

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not going well is very 
different. 

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The last quarter of a marathon 
not going well. 

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So I want to play it safe, 
generally speaking, while 

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staying competitive and, you 
know, not, not worry so much 

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about the clock. 
John, how do you go about 

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approaching goal setting with 
with your athletes? 

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And then where does someone like
Ben, you know, what are the 

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questions that come up ahead of 
their first ever marathon that 

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you kind of try and alleviate 
some of those stresses? 

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And you know, some people want 
to just, I want to go fast right

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away, but it's like there's a, 
there's a whole process and 

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learning to this event. 
Yeah, I know obviously. 

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And so obviously with you know, 
the marathon, the next shortest 

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distance is 1/2. 
And so with that there is a big 

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learning curve. 
And so, you know, for Ben, it 

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was, it was bottles. 
We were talking about bottles, 

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like kind of organization of it 
and all that of like how to how 

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much fluid to put in and stuff. 
And so it's little like nuanced 

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questions like that. 
At the end of the day, you know,

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Ben's an awesome racer and, you 
know, so getting out there and 

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the racing is innate. 
And yeah, they're going to be 

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good at that no matter what. 
The big question is like, OK, 

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the logistics of it. 
OK, am I, how far am I warming 

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up and stuff like that. 
So, yeah, with goal setting with

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Ben was, you know, I really like
if somebody's going to debut in 

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a marathon or when they debut in
the marathon, it's really about 

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I want you to race. 
Doing a time trial can be really

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daunting of like, yeah, I have 
to stay on it. 

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And it's it's very black or 
white versus, you know, as if 

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you're just out there racing. 
You can be competitive, enjoy 

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it. 
And a lot of the times you'll 

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come back to the marathon being 
so excited to maybe hit a faster

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time and stuff like that. 
Then when we, you know, kind of 

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take that data point of like you
have to run a half marathon 

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before you get to racing full on
marathons for you. 

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I mean, you made your half 
marathon debut back in like 

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2020. 
What do you remember about just 

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like that first foray into Rd. 
racing and and tackling your 

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first half that you are hoping 
it's like all right, if I could 

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pull those emotions or feelings 
from that experience that maybe 

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that will help me on Sunday when
I'm tackling my first ever full.

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Yeah, I've actually thought 
about that race a lot more in 

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the last month than I have in 
the last four years because it 

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it was a very similar experience
where I was, you know, at the 

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time, 1/2 marathon was forever 
for me. 

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I was like, I don't know, I'm 
going to feel 3/4 of the way 

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through that. 
So a very similar feeling of 

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like not knowing what I don't 
know yet. 

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And that experience went really,
really well. 

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And similarly, I didn't run a 
stupid fast time. 

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I ran about 6330, ran around 29 
low for the last 10K, like a lot

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of momentum in the later stage 
of the race. 

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And I walked away being like, 
OK, I could go faster. 

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That one in particular I 
remember like being really, 

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really conservative early. 
I felt like a like a, a horse 

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that was like, you know, caught 
in the the stable ready to like 

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just go. 
And I'm trying to bottle that 

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same feeling as like, OK, just 
get excited the further you go 

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along feeling good rather than 
feeling like you need to, you 

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know, do something about it 
right away. 

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But yeah, this is the the 
natural next step. 

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The the last few half marathons 
I've done haven't felt long 

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anymore. 
It's like, OK, I'm used to this 

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and now it's time to make that 
jump to a race where I get 

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halfway through and be like, 
there's a there's another half 

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to go. 
All right, so we got to that 

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point in your career around 
2020-2021 where it felt like the

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roads were calling. 
But then it's sort of you go 

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back to Ann Arbor, MI you you 
team up with Coach Ron Warhurst 

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and you start to realize, OK, 
like I think these legs still 

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have a little bit of speed. 
What was like the highlight of 

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that chapter before obviously 
like teaming up to work with 

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John, but you saw a little bit 
of like a second wind of like 

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the track phase for you? 
Totally, yeah. 

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Like I was, I was pretty ready 
to move to the roads. 

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Like I kind of felt like I was 
at a point where the track stuff

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wasn't working and the the road 
stuff was coming very, very 

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naturally. 
Came off my second win at 

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Falmouth, won the Manchester 
road race and that Canadian 10K 

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all in a 2 month span. 
And it felt like, OK, like I'm 

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ready to go all in on the roads.
And I've just always been so 

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infatuated with the track. 
Like I just love the idea of, 

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you know, running fast times, 
doing well on the track. 

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And it's, it's never really come
that natural to me. 

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The road stuff is a lot like, 
quote UN quote, easier as of an 

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adjustment. 
So when I teamed up with Ronnie 

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and we did some workouts where 
it looked like there was still a

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little spark left in the Track 
World. 

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I was curious to explore that 
and you know, similar to what 

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I'm describing, what I want out 
of the marathon is what I got. 

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Then it's like every race I ran 
went well and I was like, oh, I 

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can go faster. 
I can go faster. 

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Until very recently I was like, 
I don't know if I can go any 

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faster. 
So making that next step now to 

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the marathon feels like I feel 
so at peace with my track 

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career. 
If I never run a single time 

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faster in the five or ten, I'd 
be cool with that. 

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And I feel like it allows me to 
just go all in on the marathon 

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knowing that, like, I can 
respect the journey through, you

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know, the highs and lows, the 
ebbs and flows and just, you 

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know, dedicate the next four 
years to it no matter what. 

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How? 
Much of it too was just sort of 

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like, 'cause I remember 
distinctly 2021, the lead up to 

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the Tokyo Olympics, just how 
much of A stressor it was for 

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00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,560
you to. 
Chase times and try and. 

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You know, qualify for the 
Olympic team and there was up to

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so many different things. 
It's like you're racing up until

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the very last second and then it
doesn't happen. 

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And so then the next opportunity
is not a guarantee and you do 

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end up pulling it off. 
In addition to that, you make a 

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World Team in 20/20/2023 and 
Budapest did making those two 

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teams 2023 and the Paris 
Olympics give you a little bit 

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more of that fulfillment of like
that you when you came so close.

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It's like, all right, that did 
help, you know, kind of come to 

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terms and and at peace with with
your track career. 

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Yeah, totally. 
Like it was. 

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I mean, the World Champs was a 
huge kind of monkey off my back 

155
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because at that point I felt 
like I accomplished all these 

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00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:03,440
really cool things, but I just 
hadn't put on a Team Canada 

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singlet in forever. 
And I'm like, how am I not 

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making these teams, you know? 
So to get that validation that 

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like I could represent Canada on
international stage again, kind 

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of show my stuff at that level 
was very cool. 

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And then the most important 
thing about Budapest outside of 

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that is it was kind of the 
pivotal moment to determine what

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00:08:21,720 --> 00:08:25,280
my Olympic pursuit was going to 
be because at that stage, I 

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00:08:25,280 --> 00:08:28,280
didn't make that Budapest World 
Championships on the track. 

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There was a part of me that was 
considering, you know, going on 

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the roads to try to make the 
Paris Olympic team in the 

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marathon instead, which in 
hindsight would have, that would

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00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:40,559
have been hard. 
So I'm glad it all worked out 

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00:08:40,559 --> 00:08:42,120
that way. 
And then obviously, the Olympics

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is like, you know, the peak of 
it all and it comes every four 

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years. 
What I experienced in Tokyo and 

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I missed it is you're just like,
I might never be that close 

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00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,080
again. 
You don't really know how your 

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00:08:55,080 --> 00:08:57,720
fitness is going to progress. 
So to capitalize on our 

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00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:02,280
opportunity, check that box, you
know, get The Olympian status, 

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00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:06,080
get the tattoo. 
It's like that chapter has been 

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00:09:06,080 --> 00:09:08,880
accomplished, which is amazing. 
And like I'm forever going to be

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proud of that. 
And it gives me a much like more

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00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:15,000
big picture approach to what I'm
trying to do in this marathon 

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build. 
Like my ultimate goal before my 

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00:09:16,920 --> 00:09:20,160
career is like done, done is to 
have one really, really good 

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00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,520
Olympic experience. 
So Toronto this weekend to me is

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00:09:24,520 --> 00:09:28,040
like my first step towards that 
whole project. 

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So to like this weekend, 
obviously I want to go well for 

185
00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:34,000
this weekend's sake, but most 
importantly, it's like the first

186
00:09:34,000 --> 00:09:36,600
stepping stone towards, you 
know, what's going to end up 

187
00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:38,160
being a four year journey to LA 
and. 

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00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,840
Then it, it, it seems like with 
people in, you know, elite track

189
00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:46,880
and field and, and in and 
running, everyone's lives are 

190
00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,720
kind of like framed in Olympic 
cycles. 

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00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:52,640
So this Olympic cycle ends and 
then from there, it's a period 

192
00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,440
of change for you. 
I mean, you move out to the East

193
00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:58,720
Coast, you start a family with 
your wife. 

194
00:09:59,040 --> 00:10:02,480
I mean, talk me through just 
sort of like that side of things

195
00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,080
and just sort of like knowing 
that this is the right time to 

196
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:08,320
make those changes and then also
how this relationship here 

197
00:10:08,320 --> 00:10:12,360
started. 
Yeah, for sure the last like 

198
00:10:12,360 --> 00:10:14,880
year of my time in Ann Arbor, I 
definitely built a lot more 

199
00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:19,640
confidence that like, OK, if I 
if I had to kind of take this a 

200
00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:21,760
little bit more in my own 
direction, you know, maybe you 

201
00:10:21,760 --> 00:10:23,520
have to do more training on my 
own. 

202
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,920
I was, I was ready to do that. 
I felt confident enough in my 

203
00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:29,520
ability that like if I was no 
longer in a place with a 

204
00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,200
structured training group, I 
could still get high quality 

205
00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,840
workouts in, which was important
to me because I felt like the 

206
00:10:35,840 --> 00:10:40,480
last few living decisions we 
made were all tied to my running

207
00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,840
and which is great. 
And selfishly it was really 

208
00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:45,200
beneficial to my career. 
But, you know, I have a wife 

209
00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,840
that, like, isn't a runner. 
And she loved living in 

210
00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:49,960
Virginia, loved living in 
Michigan. 

211
00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,360
But at the end of the day, you 
know, we weren't choosing to 

212
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:55,120
live in those places because 
that's where we wanted to start 

213
00:10:55,120 --> 00:10:58,120
a family, live our lives. 
So Hannah and I had a 

214
00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:01,360
conversation, you know, in the 
middle of maybe 24 about like, 

215
00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:05,240
OK, when when, you know, you 
want to really find your next 

216
00:11:05,240 --> 00:11:07,400
place to live, Like, I'm ready 
to, to do that. 

217
00:11:07,400 --> 00:11:10,920
And she called that bluff fast. 
She's like, I'm I'm ready. 

218
00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,360
Let's go. 
So we ended up making the 

219
00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:17,080
decision to move back to her 
hometown in Cape Cod. 

220
00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:20,680
And shortly after that, you 
know, started planning to start 

221
00:11:20,680 --> 00:11:23,360
a family. 
And yeah, all that stuff's 

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00:11:23,360 --> 00:11:25,120
important for me. 
Like, I've always found that I 

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run better when my life is in 
balance. 

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And I knew this stage was going 
to be a lot more of fitting 

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00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:36,520
running around the rest of my 
life and the other priorities of

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my life versus the other way 
around, which, you know, a lot 

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of your career, you kind of have
to have it or it seems like you 

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have to have it the other way 
around. 

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And that was something that was 
very clear in my first few 

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conversations with John when I 
was exploring making a change to

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a more marathon specific coach. 
John supported that, which not 

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00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:58,760
all coaches do. 
You know, there's a lot of 

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coaches out there that want you 
to be in a very specific 

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00:12:00,880 --> 00:12:04,000
location with specific people. 
And, and that's totally fine. 

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It works for a lot of people, 
but it's not what I was looking 

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for. 
So to have that conversation 

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with John very early on and him 
support that and having like a 

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00:12:11,720 --> 00:12:15,080
remote situation was incredibly 
valuable for me. 

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00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:17,920
Don't worry, Rory and I are 
trying to get him to come out to

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00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:21,000
Scottsdale and then eventually 
up to Flagstaff, just just one 

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00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:22,080
week at a time. 
Yeah, it's. 

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00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:23,520
It's a lot. 
They're playing the long game, 

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00:12:23,520 --> 00:12:27,080
at least. 
The City of Smack podcast is 

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00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,120
presented by Gnomeo. 
You know that feeling when your 

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00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,400
legs just click? 
When the training's feeling 

246
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,080
smoother, recovery comes faster,
and race day hits just right? 

247
00:12:36,400 --> 00:12:40,280
That's what Gnomeo's built for. 
Through training and all the way

248
00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:44,240
to race day, Gnomeo helps unlock
one more performance. 

249
00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,360
You can run, bike or faster at 
the same effort. 2 better 

250
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,200
recovery, you get fresher legs 
after those brutal sessions and 

251
00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:57,360
three, faster training gains get
more out of every workout. 

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00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,000
Athletes using Gnomeo talk about
lighter legs, being able to push

253
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:04,160
harder, and no bonking even 
during intense efforts. 

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00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:06,120
And if you look at their 
Instagram page, you'll see a 

255
00:13:06,120 --> 00:13:09,360
comprehensive list of some of 
the athletes using Nomio in 

256
00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,480
their training, including the 
likes of Cole Hawker, Andreas 

257
00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,480
Almgren, Clayton Young, Nico 
Young, and so many more. 

258
00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,000
So what's actually happening? 
Well, as I'm getting back into 

259
00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,280
my own training, I'll share some
of my own personal testimonials 

260
00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,320
on the podcast in a few weeks on
how Gnomeo is working for me. 

261
00:13:26,640 --> 00:13:30,000
In general, Gnomeo supports your
performance and recovery from 

262
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:33,040
the inside out. 
It acutely reduces lactate 

263
00:13:33,040 --> 00:13:36,440
during exercise, meaning you can
hold the same pace with less 

264
00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,640
burn. 
It enhances your muscle 

265
00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,760
adaptation, helping your body 
get stronger and faster. 

266
00:13:42,160 --> 00:13:45,000
And it up regulates your body's 
natural defense system to 

267
00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,040
protect muscles from fatigue and
oxidative stress. 

268
00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:51,240
Use it consistently. 
And those benefits compound 

269
00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:55,200
session after session. 
So here's how to use it. 

270
00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,360
Before big workout or race, you 
take one shot about 3 hours 

271
00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,920
before go time. 
During heavy training blocks, 

272
00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,120
you take one shot daily, same 
timing. 

273
00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,520
And on those especially grueling
days, a second shot before bed 

274
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:11,400
can help recovery overnight. 
What makes Gnomeo special is 

275
00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,720
nearly a decade of science 
behind it. 

276
00:14:13,720 --> 00:14:17,480
It all started at the Karolinska
Institute Feeding back in 2009, 

277
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:20,000
when researchers began studying 
the powerful effects of 

278
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,880
compounds found in cruciferous 
vegetables like broccoli and 

279
00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:24,960
kale. 
These compounds activates your 

280
00:14:24,960 --> 00:14:27,720
body's defense system and boosts
energy production in your cells,

281
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:29,880
helping you handle the stress of
hard training. 

282
00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:32,920
In clinical studies, athletes 
supplementing with these 

283
00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:36,240
compounds saw reduced muscle 
damage, lower inflammation and 

284
00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:39,680
better training adaptations and 
lower lactate levels. 

285
00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:42,600
Then came the breakthrough. 
The team figured out how to 

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00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,720
stabilize those compounds, 
unlocking their full potential. 

287
00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:48,000
And that's the science behind 
Nomio. 

288
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:52,280
Nomio takes that research and 
turns it into a simple, powerful

289
00:14:52,280 --> 00:14:55,000
shot that helps you perform 
better and recover faster. 

290
00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:56,680
There are just three 
ingredients. 

291
00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,720
It's 80% broccoli sprout juice, 
15% lemon juice and 5% sugar. 

292
00:15:02,040 --> 00:15:05,000
It's nature meets science almost
a decade in the making. 

293
00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,040
Help to make you feel lighter, 
go harder and come back 

294
00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:09,960
stronger. 
For anyone running the New York 

295
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:13,680
City Marathon, listen up 
Gnomeo's available in North 

296
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,080
America via the feed and Citius 
Mac podcast. 

297
00:15:16,080 --> 00:15:19,560
Listeners can get 15% off using 
promo code CITIUS 15 at 

298
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:24,320
checkout. 
That's Citi US15 at the feed. 

299
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,840
If you hit the link in the show 
notes, you'll go directly to the

300
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:30,160
landing page with all of the 
details about Gnomeo and so much

301
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,480
more. 
Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. 

302
00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,040
This episode of the Sidious Mac 
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So John, what what attracts you 

341
00:17:43,120 --> 00:17:46,000
to just sort of like the 
potential that someone like Ben 

342
00:17:46,000 --> 00:17:49,400
brings from like, you know, a 
really strong track career and 

343
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,120
background? 
Because it's like, you know, 

344
00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,040
that's a very traditional way to
go about approaching tackling 

345
00:17:55,040 --> 00:17:58,480
the marathon. 
Yeah, I think, you know, with 

346
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:00,800
kind of what we spoke about with
goals for him this weekend and 

347
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:03,000
stuff, you see him just being a 
competitor, right? 

348
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:06,200
And if anybody's a competitor, 
they're and they have some 

349
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:08,000
strength and they're in the 
distance fields, right? 

350
00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:11,600
And I think, you know, seeing 
Ben perform at Falmouth, chasing

351
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:15,200
after him when I was racing him 
and whatnot, Yeah, it's just, it

352
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:18,280
shows such promise there. 
And don't get me wrong, there's 

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00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:19,840
going to be a learning curve, of
course. 

354
00:18:19,840 --> 00:18:22,320
And that's kind of what we 
talked about, right, is we are 

355
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,000
looking down the road, right? 
We are looking towards 2028. 

356
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,240
And we're, you know, approaching
every race as, yeah, we're, 

357
00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:30,520
we're showing up here. 
And we have goals to accomplish,

358
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:32,320
of course. 
But more importantly, we are 

359
00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:35,240
also, you know, looking down the
road and, yeah, setting it up 

360
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:37,320
for that. 
Yeah, I mean, when it comes to 

361
00:18:37,320 --> 00:18:41,200
all the athletes that you work 
with, when 2028 is such a 

362
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:44,000
pivotal moment that's been built
up in everyone's minds, like, 

363
00:18:44,240 --> 00:18:47,200
how do you get your athletes to 
just take things a small chunk 

364
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:48,520
at a time? 
Because I feel like that's 

365
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:51,040
everyone's already thinking it's
like a big picture, big picture,

366
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,920
but there's so many little 
stepping stones along the way. 

367
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,920
Yeah, exactly. 
And I think it's kind of my job 

368
00:18:57,920 --> 00:19:00,960
as the coach is to put it in 
perspective of like where where 

369
00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:03,000
we are at, right? 
I kind of use the metaphor of 

370
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,680
you're, you know, standing 
against a mural with your nose 

371
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:08,880
pressed against the wall, right?
It's it's hard to focus on the 

372
00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:10,760
whole thing. 
And so my job as a coach is to 

373
00:19:10,760 --> 00:19:13,120
try to pull you off that wall 
and have you see the big picture

374
00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:17,040
with it and recognize that a bad
race here, a bad race there or 

375
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,040
an amazing race here, amazing 
race there doesn't necessarily 

376
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:21,920
guarantee our spots. 
But instead we are working 

377
00:19:21,920 --> 00:19:24,360
towards a goal. 
And there'll be some sacrifices 

378
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:26,960
here and there to make that goal
happen. 

379
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:30,040
And yeah, everything is just a 
simple step away. 

380
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:33,000
Ben, what were some of the early
learning curves you had when it 

381
00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:34,600
came to just full on marathon 
training? 

382
00:19:34,600 --> 00:19:37,000
I mean, for a lot of people, 
it's like the fueling is just 

383
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:38,080
something that's totally 
different. 

384
00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,200
It's like you didn't have to do 
this when you're running 12 laps

385
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,440
on a on a track and now it's 
like you've got a plan for 

386
00:19:44,520 --> 00:19:47,520
bottles every 5K, getting a 
certain amount down. 

387
00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:50,120
It's like, I'm sure that that's 
a big part of it, but what else,

388
00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:54,120
I guess, like stood out to you? 
Yeah, the fueling was, was like 

389
00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,960
to me, I just felt like the most
like, like I just practiced it 

390
00:19:56,960 --> 00:19:58,640
all the time. 
You know, I started with an easy

391
00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:01,400
day run, just bringing a bottle 
and like putting it down and 

392
00:20:01,400 --> 00:20:04,360
just like. 
Testing the waters pretty light,

393
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:06,080
you know, in like low stakes 
environments. 

394
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,280
And then I started to 
incorporate them into workouts, 

395
00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,600
long runs, working on like 
specific intervals, working on 

396
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,880
like throwing it back as opposed
to just sipping on it and 

397
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:19,360
eventually got the groove there.
The hardest thing for me, which 

398
00:20:19,360 --> 00:20:23,680
I very like obviously saw coming
was the volume. 

399
00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:28,400
Like I just responded so well to
like a less is more approach 

400
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:33,720
throughout my career and that 
less is more floor is a lot 

401
00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:38,600
higher in the marathon. 
So what John and I feel like 

402
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,960
we've learned a lot throughout 
this build is like, what are the

403
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:47,400
signals that that we start to 
see where maybe there's some 

404
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:50,360
fatigue accumulating? 
Because like, as much as I've 

405
00:20:50,360 --> 00:20:52,920
learned this lesson over and 
over again, like when I'm hot 

406
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:56,280
and I'm feeling good, like I 
like to push the envelope even 

407
00:20:56,280 --> 00:20:59,960
though I know it's not 
necessarily necessary. 

408
00:21:01,320 --> 00:21:03,960
So that's been the biggest 
thing, like making sure the 

409
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:10,560
volume stays consistently high 
and not going crazy when I feel 

410
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:12,560
good. 
So we had some really, really 

411
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,480
exciting moments in the build 
where it's like things came on 

412
00:21:15,480 --> 00:21:20,000
really, really fast, followed by
like, you know, some mini like, 

413
00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,280
oh shit, I don't feel as good as
I did last week. 

414
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,400
And we're just like taking notes
throughout all of that. 

415
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,000
And again, this is something 
that like why I appreciate John 

416
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:33,040
so much of A coach, all of it is
just normalized. 

417
00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:35,040
Like it's fine if we didn't do 
anything wrong. 

418
00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:38,800
Like we just we learned and now 
we apply this in the next week. 

419
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,040
So yeah, like what I'm really 
most excited about this build is

420
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,600
how much we're going to learn 
from it and incorporate into the

421
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:47,800
next one. 
Because like, I think I'm in 

422
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:51,800
good form and I think I'm ready 
for a great day on Sunday. 

423
00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:58,520
But I feel like there is like so
much room for improvement, which

424
00:21:58,520 --> 00:22:02,720
gets me excited. 
So obviously the nerves are like

425
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,080
there because it's like, oh, I 
wish I had this week back or 

426
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,880
that week back or but you know, 
you can play that game all day 

427
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:09,560
long. 
So I'm trusting that we did 

428
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:11,760
enough. 
We're ready to go and like on 

429
00:22:11,760 --> 00:22:14,200
the other side of this one, like
we're going to have a better 

430
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:15,800
understanding and a better build
next one. 

431
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:17,400
Yeah. 
Do you feel like, because like 

432
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:20,560
coming from a track background 
that you look back at this 

433
00:22:20,560 --> 00:22:23,880
training log probably and you're
like, there are fewer sexy 

434
00:22:23,880 --> 00:22:27,160
exclamation workouts than you 
probably had in the lead up to 

435
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:29,200
like a World Championships on 
the track? 

436
00:22:29,720 --> 00:22:32,400
Yeah, for sure. 
Yeah. 

437
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:34,040
Marathon training looks pretty 
boring. 

438
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:35,560
Yeah, it does. 
It is it? 

439
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:37,880
It can be. 
Yeah. 

440
00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:42,960
Just a whole nother appreciation
for like what you you have a new

441
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,520
angle of sexiness. 
Yeah, yeah. 

442
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:52,920
It's no longer a 55 second 400. 
It's like 03/05 KS for 10K that 

443
00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,520
that becomes sexy. 
So all of a sudden you see these

444
00:22:56,840 --> 00:23:01,440
volume based workouts, you know,
that seemed boring when you were

445
00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:04,320
a track athlete and you're like 
3O5KS whatever, right? 

446
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:07,160
Like now all of a sudden you 
have a greater appreciation for 

447
00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,640
endurance really, or how good 
certain sessions feel. 

448
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,800
So yeah, I mean, that's what I 
loved about track. 

449
00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:16,760
Like those days where you're 
just absolutely ripping. 

450
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:21,120
But I don't know, I've really 
enjoyed challenge. 

451
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,800
Like what's been exciting for me
is like I've, I haven't 

452
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,040
challenged myself in this area 
in a really long time. 

453
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,120
Like when I was on the track, I 
was the guy that like if we were

454
00:23:29,120 --> 00:23:31,560
doing a four mile tempo, like 
I'll lead the whole thing, you 

455
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,440
know, like I never felt like I 
really had to like challenge 

456
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:37,600
myself to see how much I can 
improve in that aspect of my 

457
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,680
running because it's always been
solid and I've checked the boxes

458
00:23:41,680 --> 00:23:44,640
for what I needed on the track. 
So now what's cool is like every

459
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:50,640
week when I, you know, run 35K 
or you know, I run 10K at 305 

460
00:23:50,640 --> 00:23:53,040
pace, like I'm doing things I've
never done before. 

461
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:55,440
And like I think everyone can 
relate to that. 

462
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,680
Just being exciting, being like,
oh wow, I've never seen that on 

463
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,920
my watch or like that's never 
felt that good. 

464
00:24:01,040 --> 00:24:03,520
And like, that's ultimately the 
feeling that that you chase and 

465
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:05,600
get you week to week. 
And John, when do you like to 

466
00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:07,840
throw in some of those workouts?
Because it's like with a 

467
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,080
marathoner, like there's you're 
constantly just fatigued, you 

468
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,360
know, in many moments and you're
tired from the mileage and all 

469
00:24:13,360 --> 00:24:15,160
that stuff. 
But you do have to just like 

470
00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:18,040
sprinkle in some of that, not 
necessarily like speed work or 

471
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:20,320
whatever you would call it, but 
like there are those tougher 

472
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:22,800
sessions that come at unexpected
moments. 

473
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,920
Yeah, no, absolutely. 
And I remember distinctly having

474
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:29,080
a conversation with Ben about 
him being like, Hey, I'm, I'm 

475
00:24:29,080 --> 00:24:32,600
tired and trying to flush out, 
you know, is this normal 

476
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840
marathon fatigue or is this a 
dangerous level fatigue? 

477
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:39,400
And you know, one thing I say is
like, I, I don't care if 

478
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,440
athletes upload to Strava or 
anything like that, because what

479
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:45,920
we do is so nuanced of 
constantly changing dials and 

480
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,440
flipping switches and all of 
that to make sure that we are 

481
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:51,120
getting the best training we 
possibly can in each individual 

482
00:24:51,120 --> 00:24:53,000
week. 
And that's how we look at it as,

483
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:55,560
you know, day-to-day, week to 
week, month to month and an 

484
00:24:55,560 --> 00:24:57,800
entire bill just trying to make 
sure it all comes together. 

485
00:24:57,920 --> 00:25:01,720
And so, you know, we, I write a 
full build up, but then it gets 

486
00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:04,160
changed a lot. 
And so it's really up to, you 

487
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:07,520
know, how an athlete's feeling 
and also weather, you know, you 

488
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:10,240
know, if it's in Cape Cod, it 
gets a little windy sometimes. 

489
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:12,360
And so sometimes we might switch
things around in order to be 

490
00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,920
smart about, Oh yeah, well, it's
30 mile an hour winds or 

491
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:15,680
whatnot. 
So. 

492
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,880
Yeah. 
So I mean, the weather might be 

493
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,360
a factor on on Sunday, right? 
There might be a little bit of 

494
00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,240
rain, some some wind. 
But for you, I guess you keep 

495
00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:26,640
driving home the point that like
it's about competing. 

496
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,120
What is it about? 
Just sort of like it feels like 

497
00:25:29,120 --> 00:25:32,280
this is taking you back to like 
cross country NCAA days where it

498
00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:34,920
just sort of like, let's throw 
away the clock. 

499
00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,280
Like this is just about who can 
get to the finish line first. 

500
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:40,200
So like you're up against a 
strong Canadian field as well? 

501
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:43,560
Yeah, yeah, totally. 
And that's just why I've always 

502
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,080
thrived, you know, like I've 
always run my best in like 

503
00:25:46,080 --> 00:25:48,680
competitive environments. 
And most of the time that's like

504
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,840
the fastest I've run the clock 
stresses me out. 

505
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:55,560
And like, I've never, I don't 
know, there's very, very few 

506
00:25:55,560 --> 00:25:58,000
instances where that's like, 
really benefited me, like 

507
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,520
thinking about time so much. 
So, yeah, like, one of the 

508
00:26:02,520 --> 00:26:04,720
reasons the road is the roads 
have always been friendly to me 

509
00:26:04,720 --> 00:26:07,960
is I feel like I've got a good 
gauge of my own physical effort 

510
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:11,080
relative to my competitors, you 
know, minimize mistakes and 

511
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:14,640
things like that. 
So the weather, whatever it is, 

512
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,320
I'm like, I have no problem with
it being terrible outside 

513
00:26:17,320 --> 00:26:20,000
because like, it's not going to 
change a whole lot of what I do.

514
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,480
And I do think people that do 
get concerned with the clock, 

515
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,880
it, it becomes very 
disadvantage, disadvantageous to

516
00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:31,640
them because if you know, all of
a sudden the 1st 10K the clock 

517
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,960
is slow and you feel bad, like 
that causes people to panic. 

518
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:36,640
And if you're one of those 
people, staying calm in 

519
00:26:36,640 --> 00:26:39,440
situations like that, like that 
saves you a lot of energy. 

520
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:42,200
Yeah. 
And Cape Cod's so windy. 

521
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,120
The amount of times I've, I've 
called John and I'm like, like, 

522
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:49,840
I've started the conversation 
like like it was just so windy. 

523
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,720
So I've gotten pretty used to 
like gnarly training 

524
00:26:53,720 --> 00:26:56,200
environments. 
And you know, we're in Ontario. 

525
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,480
It's like, yeah, everyone's used
to this, this now. 

526
00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:01,280
So I, I don't really feel like 
I've ever trained in an area 

527
00:27:01,280 --> 00:27:04,280
that was that optimal. 
So days like this, I feel like 

528
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,120
I'm ready for it. 
Come to Flagstaff. 

529
00:27:06,120 --> 00:27:06,920
It's ideal. 
Yeah. 

530
00:27:07,120 --> 00:27:11,560
Yeah. 
All right, before we we close 

531
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:15,080
things out, I do want to do 
because I've got John up here. 

532
00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,480
I do this with all coaches and 
Ben, you can jump in from time 

533
00:27:18,480 --> 00:27:22,040
to time and give your two cents 
on some of these. 

534
00:27:22,040 --> 00:27:25,160
But overrated, underrated is a 
segment I like to do with 

535
00:27:25,160 --> 00:27:29,840
coaches where I'll give you a 
training trend or like whatever 

536
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,520
it is, and then you just give me
your opinion and reasoning. 

537
00:27:32,800 --> 00:27:36,280
Overrated, underrated. 
You can say properly rated, but 

538
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:39,480
on a few occasions. 
So we'll start off with the 

539
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:40,840
altar. 
G Overrated. 

540
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,680
Underrated. 
I'll say overrated now. 

541
00:27:45,680 --> 00:27:49,920
I think it's a great technology 
to use, but not if you're below 

542
00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:53,160
like 80% body weight. 
At that point we need to look at

543
00:27:53,160 --> 00:27:55,920
like, are we just training for 
the sake of kind of running kind

544
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,520
of thing? 
So it's, yeah, it's, it's a very

545
00:27:58,520 --> 00:28:02,520
helpful tool, but can rest as 
rest at the end of the day 

546
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:04,680
sometimes. 
Double threshold. 

547
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,880
Underrated. 
I think it's, I really believe 

548
00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:13,520
in it and yeah, it's a staple of
my training and I feel like more

549
00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:16,280
people should look into it if 
they, if it's the right spot for

550
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:18,040
them. 
But yeah, I I really like it. 

551
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:19,360
Ben, when did you start doing 
it? 

552
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:22,960
I started in in Ann Arbor. 
What's different about the way 

553
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,400
we do it now? 
And I don't know, maybe this 

554
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:27,840
changes once I'm, you know, a 
tougher athlete with John. 

555
00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:29,160
But right now we don't do it 
every week. 

556
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,200
Yeah. 
And that's a that's a big 

557
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:31,800
difference. 
When I was in Ann Arbor, we we 

558
00:28:31,800 --> 00:28:33,400
were especially if you're on 
Hobbs. 

559
00:28:33,520 --> 00:28:35,000
Hobbs wants I'm doing twice a 
week. 

560
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,400
I I never got into a groove 
where that benefited me, but 

561
00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:45,480
every week I found some success 
with it every other week or so. 

562
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:48,240
The way we do it now seems to be
optimal because it does really 

563
00:28:48,240 --> 00:28:53,280
take a mental toll week in week 
out I find at least. 

564
00:28:53,720 --> 00:29:01,080
John, blood lactate testing. 
I would say overrated. 

565
00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,320
It's a really helpful tool. 
We use it, but as Ben can kind 

566
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:09,160
of attest to it is it's not the 
first thing we use necessarily. 

567
00:29:09,160 --> 00:29:11,520
I'm more concerned like 
holistically how somebody is 

568
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,560
feeling and what the numbers say
usually back that up. 

569
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:17,320
But yeah, it's a. 
It's a little overrated in my 

570
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,160
opinion. 
Yeah, we don't get as scared by 

571
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,680
the higher values. 
Like when I tried to stick to 

572
00:29:21,680 --> 00:29:24,920
like the two point O 4 point O, 
kind of like go to values, 

573
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:29,560
that's where I felt like I like 
I wasn't benefiting. 

574
00:29:29,720 --> 00:29:31,720
That was like one of the first 
things we really worked on right

575
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,200
off the bat was like, OK, we're 
going to go off a feeling here, 

576
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:37,560
not the values. 
If you see a 5, it's OK. 

577
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:40,240
That's that's what changed and 
it, and it helped a lot because 

578
00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:44,240
change the workout style from 
like, you know, feeling like I 

579
00:29:44,240 --> 00:29:47,960
was like jogging, jogging to 
like not getting worked up if 

580
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:50,440
like my blood lactate was too 
high, you know. 

581
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,600
Super shoes. 
I would say appropriately rated,

582
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,760
yeah. 
I mean, they've changed, changed

583
00:29:56,760 --> 00:30:00,640
the sport honestly, and I think 
they're hyped and they should 

584
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:01,960
be. 
What are you running in? 

585
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,080
I'm wearing the cloud boom 
strikes. 

586
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:07,200
OK, but yeah, I'm in super shoes
every workout. 

587
00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:10,840
I couldn't have Matt, bro. 
I mean, John and I were in 

588
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,080
college like just pre super 
shoe. 

589
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:15,720
Yeah yeah. 
So like we remember the Cavs 

590
00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:19,680
after a track 10K and spikes and
it's like I never want that 

591
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:22,520
again and I don't have to. 
So you know, I feel like you 

592
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,560
have to up your rehab a bit to 
like the energy goes somewhere, 

593
00:30:25,560 --> 00:30:27,680
right? 
So you have some tweaks you 

594
00:30:27,680 --> 00:30:30,840
gotta fix but I don't ever work 
out in non super shoes now. 

595
00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:37,880
Soft surfaces. 
I would say overhyped. 

596
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,080
You know, you're from New York 
City, you train in New York 

597
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,240
City. 
You know, it's one of those 

598
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:41,640
things. 
Where? 

599
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:43,080
Concrete jungle. 
Yeah, Exactly. 

600
00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:45,200
If I want soft surfers, I go to 
Central Park and I get a little 

601
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:46,000
bit. 
Yeah, yeah. 

602
00:30:46,240 --> 00:30:47,560
Yeah. 
On the pavement loop. 

603
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:50,320
You know exactly. 
No, I think it's you know, it's 

604
00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:52,280
great to have, but I don't think
it's necessary. 

605
00:30:52,440 --> 00:30:55,760
I think changing out your shoes 
is way more important than you 

606
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,360
know, soft surfaces necessarily 
pacing lights. 

607
00:31:00,800 --> 00:31:03,680
You know, it's funny. 
I've obviously I work more with 

608
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:06,440
Rd. athletes, but have worked 
with track athletes and I've 

609
00:31:06,440 --> 00:31:08,920
never experienced it personally.
So I can't, I don't know. 

610
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:10,600
It seems it seems like it's 
working great. 

611
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,880
It's helping, but it's, yeah. 
BUS track. 

612
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,600
You mean the short track? 
No, it's it's appropriately 

613
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,080
hyped for sure. 
It's a it's a great track, super

614
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:24,240
fast. 
And yeah, I think once they did 

615
00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:28,120
that remodel back 2010, 2012, 
saw it as a high schooler and I 

616
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:32,240
was like, all right, it's. 
Fast Ben's like my my 5 KBR is 

617
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:33,400
like. 
All my BRS. 

618
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,480
Yeah. 
I think it's it's long if 

619
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,000
anything. 
Hardest track in the world? 

620
00:31:38,840 --> 00:31:42,800
Bicarb. 
No, I think it's, I think it's 

621
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,520
under hyped. 
It's one of those things where 

622
00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:47,840
if you can tolerate it with your
stomach it, it's worth it. 

623
00:31:48,560 --> 00:31:52,320
But if you're throwing up at 
mile, whatever, because you took

624
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,720
it and maybe it's not for you. 
Weightlifting. 

625
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,560
I, I'll say overhyped, I guess I
don't know. 

626
00:32:01,560 --> 00:32:04,800
I want to see it as I see it as 
like ancillary in order for 

627
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:07,360
injury prevention. 
Obviously strength training is 

628
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,000
important, but not if it's going
to cause injuries and you know 

629
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:12,200
maxing out on bench isn't 
necessarily going to help you 

630
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,040
run a a faster marathon 
necessarily. 

631
00:32:15,080 --> 00:32:19,000
Cross training while healthy. 
I think it can be really 

632
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,720
helpful. 
Yeah, I think it's that's very 

633
00:32:20,720 --> 00:32:23,240
under hyped for sure. 
Absolutely. 

634
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,120
I think it's a great way to get 
in more volume and stuff. 

635
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:28,720
But I think you also have to 
look at the, you know, mental 

636
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:30,800
toll that it takes of, all 
right, you're spending time on a

637
00:32:30,800 --> 00:32:33,440
trainer or something like that. 
Here's a controversial one 

638
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:36,920
between the two of you Altitude.
Yeah, Ben. 

639
00:32:37,880 --> 00:32:41,880
So overrated. 
No, I think it's, it's at the 

640
00:32:41,880 --> 00:32:44,400
end of the day, I'll, I'll say 
it's appropriately hyped. 

641
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:46,120
It's not everything by any 
means. 

642
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:48,800
You know, you have athletes 
around the world traveling to 

643
00:32:48,880 --> 00:32:51,480
Flagstaff to train, but you also
have athletes being really 

644
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:53,400
successful living at sea level, 
right? 

645
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:56,000
Ben is one of them. 
And yeah, it's, it's about an 

646
00:32:56,000 --> 00:32:58,480
athlete's happiness, right? 
Sometimes a mountain town isn't 

647
00:32:58,520 --> 00:33:00,160
for everybody. 
And and I get that for sure. 

648
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,280
Strides. 
Some strides are good. 

649
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:07,200
Doing 150 strides before your 
marathon? 

650
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,520
Maybe not the best idea. 
Yeah, strides for to get rid of 

651
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,480
nerves isn't the right idea. 
Last one jogging rest. 

652
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:19,080
I'm yeah, I mean, I would say 
that's over hyped. 

653
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,080
You don't have to do it. 
I you know, rest is rest in my 

654
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:23,840
opinion, if you really want to 
jog between it because it's 

655
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,440
going to help you run faster, 
then let's do it, but if not, 

656
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,000
I'm full. 
I'm cool with you guys standing 

657
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:29,080
I'm. 
I'm glad that was the answer 

658
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:32,720
because I haven't jogged in a 
rest in like a year and a half. 

659
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,720
Like Oh my God, have I changed 
everything? 

660
00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:37,320
Uh. 
Oh, we got to talk about the 

661
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,680
plan again. 
Well, the one thing that I was 

662
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,440
always curious about here, this 
is a coach that we've got on 

663
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:45,240
stage that can answer this 
question when people who might 

664
00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,200
be running like, you know, their
own marathons for fun or for 

665
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:50,760
their own sort of goals. 
But when people talk about like 

666
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:53,720
warming up for the marathon, 
like, what do you see as like a 

667
00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:55,520
good warm up before the 
marathon? 

668
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,720
Because it's like, I think I've 
got 26.2 miles of warming up to 

669
00:33:59,720 --> 00:34:02,200
do out there. 
Yeah, Five to Six Mile warm up 

670
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:02,840
easy. 
Yeah. 

671
00:34:03,440 --> 00:34:06,960
No, I mean, the the goal with it
is I usually say, you know, 10 

672
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,840
minutes or so, something like 
that, dynamic drills and stuff 

673
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:11,480
like that. 
At the end of the day, I'm not 

674
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,960
too picky with the pros on 
telling them what to do because 

675
00:34:15,199 --> 00:34:17,440
on the marathon it's a little 
bit more specific, especially if

676
00:34:17,440 --> 00:34:19,600
they haven't raced before. 
But generally, you know, 

677
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:22,159
whatever's going to get you 
there and feel good again. 

678
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,719
Nervous strides are like the 
worst thing I see people doing 

679
00:34:24,719 --> 00:34:27,280
of like, dude, all right, this 
is like you've just done like 20

680
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,080
by 200. 
Is that really worth it? 

681
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:33,560
All right, so he No 20 by 200 
before Sunday's right. 

682
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,840
Too late, too late. 
All right, well, let's give it 

683
00:34:37,840 --> 00:34:40,480
up for Ben Flanagan and coach 
John Green. 

684
00:34:41,159 --> 00:34:43,920
Best of luck on Sunday, guys. 
We'll all be rooting for you. 

685
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:45,080
Awesome. 
Thank you so much. 

686
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,520
Thanks, Grace. 
Thanks guys for coming out. 

687
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:54,840
The City of Smack podcast is 
presented by Lollipop. 

688
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,240
If you tune into our shows in 
Eugene, you may have seen me 

689
00:34:58,240 --> 00:35:02,400
holding a nice yellow can. 
That was Lollipop's new 

690
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:06,480
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691
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,320
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692
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,800
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693
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:16,000
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694
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,440
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695
00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:21,920
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696
00:35:22,080 --> 00:35:25,720
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697
00:35:25,720 --> 00:35:30,120
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698
00:35:30,120 --> 00:35:32,640
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699
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,280
miss The SpongeBob Movie in 
theaters December 19th.