1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:04,280 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is supported by 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,000 Vellus. You know that walk back to your 3 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:10,320 car after a long run? The one where every step feels 4 00:00:10,320 --> 00:00:14,040 like a negotiation? That's exactly the moment Velous 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:17,320 is built for. Velous makes recovery footwear 6 00:00:17,320 --> 00:00:20,640 designed for runners, sandals and slides that help your feet 7 00:00:20,640 --> 00:00:23,600 and legs bounce back faster between sessions. 8 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:26,520 The whole thing is built around their Tri Motion technology, 9 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,680 which is a fancy way of saying three different densities of 10 00:00:29,680 --> 00:00:33,440 foam working together. The heel cushions impact, the 11 00:00:33,440 --> 00:00:36,760 contoured foot bed supports your arches, and there are flex 12 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:40,000 grooves under the toes that let your feet actually stretch out 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,520 and relax after a hard session. It just feels right. 14 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,440 My go to is the Hoya adjustable slide. 15 00:00:46,760 --> 00:00:50,720 I live in these between runs when I'm podcasting. 16 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,440 You could probably watch me on YouTube but you what you can't 17 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,080 see is that on my feet are my Velous Hoya adjustable slides. 18 00:00:59,480 --> 00:01:03,680 And this spring they've added the new active 2 strap. 19 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:07,200 It's a new adjustable style that locks in the fit a little more 20 00:01:07,200 --> 00:01:09,760 if you want something that you can wear all day. 21 00:01:09,960 --> 00:01:13,320 They also dropped some fresh new spring colorways on their most 22 00:01:13,320 --> 00:01:15,880 popular style. Whether you're shuffling home 23 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:19,040 from a workout, hitting the coffee shop or just giving your 24 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:21,800 feet a break, these things feel incredible. 25 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,800 Run, recover, repeat. With Vellas. 26 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,440 Head on over to their site at vellasfootwear.com and use code 27 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:33,360 CDs MAG 20 for 20% off your order, plus free shipping. 28 00:01:33,560 --> 00:01:37,600 That's cdsmag20@vellasfootwear.com 29 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:42,000 Velous has been with Citius Mag dating back to 2023. 30 00:01:42,320 --> 00:01:45,040 We are so grateful for their continued support. 31 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:48,960 That's Velous footwear.com. Code Citius Mag 20. 32 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:55,720 What's up everyone? You are listening to the Citius 33 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:57,920 Mag podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,560 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,080 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,320 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,360 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,160 define careers and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 41 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:21,120 anywhere else. So let's get into it, because we 42 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:26,520 love track and field. My guest for today's episode is 43 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:30,560 Vinciotti, the US 5000 meter champion at 31 years old. 44 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:34,320 Roughly 24 hours after losing the 1500 meter final by 5 45 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,760 hundredths of a second, Vince went back out at Icahn Stadium 46 00:02:38,040 --> 00:02:43,280 and won the 5K national title in 1346, an event that he had raced 47 00:02:43,480 --> 00:02:45,840 only once in the previous five years. 48 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:50,760 It was the first national track title of his career, and it came 49 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:54,120 after runs of 4th place finishes, 3rd place finishes, 50 00:02:54,120 --> 00:02:57,120 second place finishes stretched across nearly a decade. 51 00:02:57,120 --> 00:03:00,160 As a professional, Vince trains with Under Armour's dark Sky 52 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:03,080 distance in Flagstaff under coach Stephen Haas. 53 00:03:03,440 --> 00:03:05,640 He went to Virginia Tech where he only became good enough to 54 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:07,760 GoPro. In his fifth year, he finished 55 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,280 fourth at the 2024 Olympic Trials by 1/4 of a second. 56 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:13,800 He has been on the edge of breaking through internationally 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,960 for years and this year it finally started to crack open. 58 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:18,800 Some of the highlights from this year. 59 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:23,640 He ran 330, a personal best in Rabat earlier behind yard 60 00:03:23,640 --> 00:03:27,600 Negoos, Isaac Nader, the World champion and Azidine Habs. 61 00:03:28,000 --> 00:03:32,920 He put together a 1313 personal best in the 5K at Payton Jordan 62 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:36,720 back in May, and then this past weekend was the culmination of 63 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,600 everything. He went from reading a LetsRun 64 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,360 write up at 4:00 AM declaring that he had missed his best shot 65 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,240 to standing on top of a podium less than 12 hours later. 66 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:48,560 In this conversation, we get into all of it. 67 00:03:48,560 --> 00:03:51,160 The sports psychologist who helped him reframe a decade of 68 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,120 near misses as a trajectory rather than a verdict. 69 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:57,880 The 24 hour turn around between the two finals and what it took 70 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:01,080 to flip the switch. What Rabat and Ostrava showed 71 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:04,200 him about where he actually stands internationally and the 72 00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:06,920 coaching lineage that is built From Marilyn Bevins, a 73 00:04:06,920 --> 00:04:10,160 trailblazer of American marathoning, who coached him at 74 00:04:10,160 --> 00:04:13,080 Perry Hall High School in Baltimore, through Ben Thomas at 75 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:17,680 Virginia, Mark Roland at OTC Elite, and now Stephen Haas at 76 00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:21,240 Dark Sky in Flagstaff. This was a great conversation 77 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,600 and I'm very excited for you to get to know Vince a little bit 78 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:25,560 better. So without further ado, here is 79 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:39,280 Vince Ciotti. All right, now I welcome on. 80 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:45,000 US 5000 meter champion Vince Ciattei almost introduced you as 81 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:46,400 Vinciotti. The body. 82 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:49,400 Has that nickname found its way to get over to you? 83 00:04:49,400 --> 00:04:54,040 I guess like from, I guess Eric and Aisha have just, you know, 84 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,320 made it a habit at this point of the nickname. 85 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,920 And I have, I'm watching the broadcast. 86 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,400 I'm sitting in the stands and I, you know, it pops into my head. 87 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,320 It's one of those things where like I feel like you never want 88 00:05:08,320 --> 00:05:12,880 to like pump your own nickname. Like, you know, it feels like 89 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:16,720 like I'm like if this org like, cuz it has been a thing like it, 90 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:20,520 it was a thing at Virginia Tech. Like, I mean, I had by the end 91 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,640 of my time there, I had teammates that would refer to me 92 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,880 as body like cut out the no Vince, no, they would just be 93 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:33,520 like, yeah, what's up body. So, and then I think when I 94 00:05:33,520 --> 00:05:39,440 became a pro and wasn't as good for a few years, that definitely 95 00:05:41,040 --> 00:05:44,360 it, it, it probably died off quite a bit and I was at odds 96 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:46,640 with my body anyway. So I didn't really like it as a 97 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:50,320 nickname. Now that my body is functioning 98 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:54,240 and I'm running pretty well and it's sort of come back a little 99 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:56,440 bit. I mean, I'm not going to deny 100 00:05:56,440 --> 00:05:58,480 there's a bit of a, a, a flow to it. 101 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,200 And I'm definitely one of the, you know, maybe one of the more 102 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:05,920 built guys, at least as you know, I'm not going to call 103 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,440 myself a 5K guy, but in the 5K, yeah. 104 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,360 So yeah, it's, it's it's, it's funny that that's coming back a 105 00:06:12,360 --> 00:06:15,720 bit because it reminds me of, you know, the sort of inception 106 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,200 of it in the Vt days. No, I love it. 107 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,720 Well, First off, congratulations on an awesome weekend here in 108 00:06:22,720 --> 00:06:27,480 New York City, coming away with the national title in the 5K and 109 00:06:27,480 --> 00:06:30,600 then a runner up finish in the 1500 overall. 110 00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:32,960 I guess like now that you've had a couple days to to process 111 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:36,320 everything, like what are the like big takeaways and feelings 112 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:38,960 from the weekend? Yeah, thanks, Chris. 113 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:43,160 Yeah, I mean, I, I, it's just, I'm really happy to have to have 114 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:47,680 to have won that 5K. Obviously, I think it's just 115 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:52,080 another like, it's a, it's a really big, it's a cool check 116 00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:56,360 mark to like have in the career. Like I think, you know, maybe 117 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,200 the a, one thing for me, like all these years was trying to 118 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:03,120 make a, a, a US A-Team And, and I finally did that in the road 119 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:07,840 mile champs earlier this spring. And I think that has fed into me 120 00:07:07,840 --> 00:07:10,880 having like a lot more like running a bit more freely and 121 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:12,320 having more confidence this year. 122 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,480 And then, you know, maybe the the next sort of goal on that 123 00:07:16,480 --> 00:07:19,480 would have been win a national title. 124 00:07:19,480 --> 00:07:25,760 Like I've been 4th, 4th, 3rd, 2nd, like second twice at NC as 125 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:30,040 like I think there was maybe a little bit of a, you know, 126 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,880 internal sort of like, am I going to be able to do this sort 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:36,960 of thing? And and those results are still 128 00:07:36,960 --> 00:07:40,640 I'm proud of those. And I think I was still found 129 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,080 some pride in, you know, how I ran in the 1500. 130 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,960 I thought I executed OK, I could have executed better. 131 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,240 But you know, I think that's something I've come a long way 132 00:07:49,240 --> 00:07:52,800 with with instead of being like, Oh my God, it's just another 133 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:54,000 one. And I'm not not going to get 134 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,200 this done now to sort of flip the mindset right away, 24 hours 135 00:07:58,200 --> 00:08:01,360 later, go, you know, the best thing I could do is just try to 136 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:06,120 X execute and race well again. And yeah, it just, I mean, you 137 00:08:06,120 --> 00:08:09,520 just get so much love from the family and friends. 138 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:12,520 Like I think everyone that's aware of like how long of a 139 00:08:13,160 --> 00:08:16,920 processes this has been for me. Like I'm obviously not a spring 140 00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:20,720 chicken in this sport. So it's just really rewarding. 141 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:23,920 And it's ironic that it was in a 5K like I just never would have. 142 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,680 Yeah, that's not how I would have pictured it happening. 143 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:29,200 So yeah. So how so? 144 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,680 Why did mom go home after the 1500 I. 145 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:36,200 Mean, that was the thing it was we're we're you know, I really 146 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:38,480 was like, oh, like, you know, I'm got a great shot like I 147 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,799 could I could win the 15 like, and I mean, you know, it was 148 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:44,039 still a good race, still exciting, like they had fun 149 00:08:44,039 --> 00:08:48,560 being there, but you know they were you know, New York is a 150 00:08:48,560 --> 00:08:52,440 very stimulating environment. And so I think after a few days 151 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:57,280 and and, you know, the stress of watching 2 races is, you know, 152 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:01,480 arguably more than the stress of running two races, especially 153 00:09:01,480 --> 00:09:05,640 the tactical affairs that they were so I think they were you 154 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,640 know, they were ready to to to go home and and watch it on TV. 155 00:09:09,640 --> 00:09:12,920 But for me, it always makes such a big difference when like it's 156 00:09:12,920 --> 00:09:17,120 on, you know, it's, it's it's cool that I can just tell my 157 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:21,640 family like I'll turn on NBC at, you know, X time and and and and 158 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,800 and watch and I think that brings a lot more like, you 159 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,960 know, it's, it's, it's makes it easy for them and it's cool that 160 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,440 they're able to watch. And a lot of my other family 161 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:33,760 back home was able to watch. It's, you know, it's still meant 162 00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:36,760 meant a lot. For so many of you know, those 163 00:09:36,760 --> 00:09:39,360 friends, family members and people who've been supporting 164 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,400 and following your career for the last couple of years, like I 165 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:44,160 think that's a great point that you brought up before. 166 00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:47,560 It's just like there have been so many like almost along the 167 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:51,160 way, like almost making this team or almost making the podium 168 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:56,120 in certain races. And for a lot of pros, you could 169 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:58,520 take that and it could be really, really frustrating. 170 00:09:58,840 --> 00:10:03,240 But somehow I think like you've done a great job of kind of in 171 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,720 some of the interviews you've done after these races of kind 172 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,680 of flipping it in in a way mentally and, and describing 173 00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:14,080 those races as like evidence that you belong among the best 174 00:10:14,080 --> 00:10:17,360 and that like you, you know, you're there. 175 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:21,480 And so I guess like how long did it take for that part of 176 00:10:21,520 --> 00:10:26,160 processing, you know, these almost teams, almost podiums, 177 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:28,840 you know, for you as a as a pro, because, you know, maybe the 178 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,440 first couple times could probably be frustrating, but 179 00:10:31,440 --> 00:10:36,520 then over time, like you, you do have to find a way to, you know, 180 00:10:36,640 --> 00:10:39,520 kind of reframe that. I, I, I would give a lot of 181 00:10:39,520 --> 00:10:44,960 credit to, I've worked with the sports psych Shannon Thompson 182 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:47,240 and about for about a year and a half now. 183 00:10:49,040 --> 00:10:51,440 And it was, it's funny you mentioned like breaking it into 184 00:10:51,440 --> 00:10:55,440 like those first couple, like deer misses versus like a more 185 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:59,200 consistent period of that. Cause like the trials in 24 was 186 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:00,720 definitely like my big breakthrough. 187 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:03,280 Like I don't think anyone was picking me to be competitive for 188 00:11:03,280 --> 00:11:05,920 that team. And, you know, I was fourth by 189 00:11:06,120 --> 00:11:09,760 1/4 of a second and you know, I wasn't, didn't come down to a 190 00:11:09,760 --> 00:11:12,240 lean like it did this past weekend at USA is. 191 00:11:12,240 --> 00:11:15,640 But you know, I was in the mix to, to, to make that team for 192 00:11:15,640 --> 00:11:19,600 sure. And you know, I feel like that 193 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,840 was like, oh man, like, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm here now. 194 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:26,400 But I think initially, yes, I think it added a little bit of 195 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,880 like pressure to like, OK, you're here now. 196 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:31,720 You have to stay at this level this and that, like almost like 197 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,920 convincing myself that I was at that level versus believing it. 198 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:40,640 And I think once I started like working with Shannon and sort of 199 00:11:40,640 --> 00:11:48,080 like reframing like results and outcomes, I think that really 200 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,760 helped a lot because then, yeah, you can sort of fit these 201 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:55,440 outcomes that maybe it isn't the exact outcome you want, but it 202 00:11:55,760 --> 00:11:59,920 fits into this overall trajectory of like, OK, you 203 00:11:59,920 --> 00:12:03,360 know, before you hadn't come close to making a team. 204 00:12:03,360 --> 00:12:06,360 You came close one time. Now you're coming close again 205 00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:10,040 and again and again. And you're getting 4th to 3rd to 206 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,040 2nd. Like you just have to like 207 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:17,400 believe that at some point it's going to translate into the 208 00:12:17,400 --> 00:12:20,960 actual result that you want. But I think if you just take 209 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:25,280 that step back and bring it back to like the process of trying 210 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:29,400 and trying and trying again, it does make it easier to like not 211 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,120 get too, too high or too low about any one thing and, and 212 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:38,400 help build that belief that, OK, like these close calls aren't 213 00:12:39,640 --> 00:12:42,360 only going to be my defining story. 214 00:12:42,360 --> 00:12:46,440 Like I, you know, you know, I just keep putting myself in that 215 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:49,960 situation and at some point it's going to to work out the way 216 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:54,040 that I would like it to. 2024 and 2025, I guess like when 217 00:12:54,440 --> 00:12:57,080 you're finishing right on the heels of, you know, so many of 218 00:12:57,080 --> 00:13:00,240 these guys who have Olympic medals, world championship 219 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,280 medals, like what did you think was missing? 220 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,080 And just sort of like cracking, you know, kind of joining those 221 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:09,800 guys and, and, and winning some of those races. 222 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:14,400 And then going into 2026, like how did you actively work 223 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:16,080 towards that? Because if we look at just sort 224 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:18,760 of like the full body of work of your season from indoors to 225 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:22,960 outdoors, like you've raced a a bunch and each time out like 226 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:26,040 you're 1 now just kind of winning more. 227 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,760 And then also two, like you're getting invited to these Diamond 228 00:13:30,760 --> 00:13:32,880 League races is with some more regularity. 229 00:13:32,880 --> 00:13:35,400 So it's like, yeah, I mean it. You've already kind of proven 230 00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:38,120 that like, you can, you know, compete at this stage. 231 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,640 With the Diamond Leagues, I think it was like 2024. 232 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:45,640 I ran a couple after the Trials. But, you know, even for me, 233 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:52,080 like, I mean, I was still 29 at that point, but they were still 234 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,760 like, I hadn't done them yet. So it was still this, like, big 235 00:13:55,760 --> 00:13:59,320 new thing, like, you know, like a little bit intimidating. 236 00:13:59,320 --> 00:14:03,160 And then last year I did a few, like, as part of like the sort 237 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,840 of circuit during the season. And like, that was a little more 238 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:12,040 like, OK, like I can, you know, not be as like, awestruck that 239 00:14:12,040 --> 00:14:16,680 I'm just in the race, like, try to, you know, try to mix it up. 240 00:14:16,680 --> 00:14:19,920 But I think last year it was a little bit more of like, OK, 241 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:23,200 first year, happy to be here. Last year a little mindset of, 242 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:25,520 oh, I can get towed along to like a fast time. 243 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:28,760 And then this year I think I've been much better about thinking 244 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,160 like, OK, like if you look at those guys that I'm behind or 245 00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,960 close to or whatever at the trials or at USA's, they're not 246 00:14:35,960 --> 00:14:38,480 showing up to the Diamond leagues to get towed along to a 247 00:14:38,480 --> 00:14:40,280 fast time. They're showing up to try to 248 00:14:40,280 --> 00:14:41,800 win. Like that's what Yared Nuguse 249 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,800 done. Every single Diamond League this 250 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:47,920 year has been first or second. So not that I've quite made the 251 00:14:47,920 --> 00:14:50,240 jump to that yet, but I think what helped me a lot in the 252 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,280 Diamond leagues this year and just in general at these USA is 253 00:14:54,280 --> 00:14:58,400 just not worrying about the time and like really just having the 254 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,760 belief that OK, like I can be in the mix now. 255 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,640 Like I've been on this trajectory that's been good. 256 00:15:04,000 --> 00:15:07,360 I've sort of worked my way from like just getting my foot in the 257 00:15:07,360 --> 00:15:10,200 door to at least like running some decent PBS. 258 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,640 And now we go like, let's compete. 259 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:16,160 Like, you know, like if we have that mindset, the worst that 260 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,600 happens if we don't compete is we still get towed along to a 261 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,800 decent time. So yeah, I think like, you know, 262 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:28,520 I mean, there's so many between Cole Yard, like Hobbes, like 263 00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:32,880 there's just so much depth. And so these guys show up and 264 00:15:33,360 --> 00:15:36,920 compete to win in these diamond leagues or at USA or whatever. 265 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,680 And some of it is just a fitness thing. 266 00:15:40,680 --> 00:15:43,720 Like I've had a really consistent last three years and 267 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,400 I've been healthier this year than even the past two years. 268 00:15:46,400 --> 00:15:49,160 And that's helped a lot. But I think combining that with 269 00:15:49,160 --> 00:15:51,800 the mindset of like, yeah, why not? 270 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,320 Like we've been on the scene long enough, now we can try to 271 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,160 compete in these races, like truly compete, Not just be happy 272 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,320 to be there, be happy to run a time, you know? 273 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,120 So I want to kind of take a couple of sample races from this 274 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,360 year and you tell me like, what were the takeaways that you took 275 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,040 away from them earlier this year that, you know, helped you, I 276 00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:14,920 guess going into, you know, a championship setting like like 277 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,080 USA. So for example, I guess like 278 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:22,440 when you go to Rabat and you run 330 like and you finish fourth 279 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:25,440 there, I would think. And I think this is something 280 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:27,880 that Kyle and I were talking about and Mack we're talking 281 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:31,080 about this weekend, that's a different kind of race that you 282 00:16:31,200 --> 00:16:35,160 have takeaways from then when you go run 334 in Ostrava and 283 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:37,320 win. So like, like what? 284 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,360 What are the pros from both of those races that help you 285 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:42,960 towards, you know, building towards the US Championship? 286 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:47,960 Rabat I think was, I mean, it's, it's, it's APB like, and that's 287 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:52,080 exciting, but I really think like being 4th in that race was, 288 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:57,680 was just another like that was a the biggest confirmation that 289 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:01,440 I've had yet on like the international stage that, yeah, 290 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:03,880 I can compete with these guys because the three guys in front 291 00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:10,079 of me were yard 327 Nader world champ, Habz 327. 292 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,800 And I was like 2/10 of a second behind Habz in in 3rd. 293 00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:19,240 Like, I think it's just a confirmation that like, and we 294 00:17:19,280 --> 00:17:22,319 we closed in 53. Like it wasn't like a perfectly 295 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:24,960 even, you know, 56 is across the board. 296 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:30,880 Like we closed fast for 3:30. So yeah, it that was like a 297 00:17:30,880 --> 00:17:35,360 confirmation that OK, in a race where like there's guys that 298 00:17:35,360 --> 00:17:39,800 have historically been like levels above me, like, yeah, I'm 299 00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,400 still finishing fourth. I didn't win, but like I'm 300 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,120 closing the gap to those guys. I believe that I am in training. 301 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,120 So it's cool to get that sort of confirmation in a race. 302 00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:53,160 And then Estrava, you know, is a little different where like I 303 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:55,440 was pretty confident that I could be upfront. 304 00:17:55,720 --> 00:17:58,680 Like I took the lead with 500 to go. 305 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,280 Like Nathan got me by like 7 hundredths of a second at the 306 00:18:03,280 --> 00:18:04,960 end of the race. Like it was another, you know, 307 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:09,400 exciting close race with him. But I think that was a race 308 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:12,320 where like coming off Rabat now it's like, OK, I have the 309 00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:14,680 fastest seed time. Like there's no reason I can't 310 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:17,160 try something new. Like go to the front of it 311 00:18:17,160 --> 00:18:20,880 early, try to control the race and almost got it right 312 00:18:20,880 --> 00:18:23,960 tactically. But you know, again, you just 313 00:18:24,320 --> 00:18:28,880 you can when I'm last year I was happy to run 349 in Oslo. 314 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:32,640 Like that was cool. This year was like, yeah, 349, 315 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,200 like felt sort of tactical in Estrada, like I was like judging 316 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:40,240 when to go, you know? So even that like year on year 317 00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:43,000 is like progress just in the race. 318 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:46,720 This episode of the Citius Mag podcast is brought to you by 319 00:18:46,720 --> 00:18:49,040 Core. If you've ever tried to heat 320 00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:52,360 train, you know the problem. It's mostly guesswork. 321 00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,000 You throw on an extra base layer, you kill the fan, and 322 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:59,080 sometimes you just hope that you're doing enough or you're 323 00:18:59,120 --> 00:19:01,040 worried that you're overcooking yourself. 324 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:05,240 The Core 2 thermal sensor takes the guessing out of all of it. 325 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,120 It reads your core body temperature in real time, no 326 00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:11,480 thermometer, nothing invasive, and you can actually see what's 327 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:13,680 happening inside of your body while you train. 328 00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:16,960 It's super easy to attach the Core 2 to whatever heart rate 329 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,080 monitor you already have, and it's compatible with all of the 330 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,720 wearable tech options that are out there. 331 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:25,000 Core has been able to take all of the training data and 332 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,760 insights and convert it into their heat adaptation score. 333 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,160 So that's a single #0 to 100% that tells you how heat adapted 334 00:19:33,160 --> 00:19:36,160 your body actually is. It builds from the time that you 335 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,240 spend in the productive heat zones during a session. 336 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,160 So if you do enough quality heat work, then the score climbs. 337 00:19:43,360 --> 00:19:46,720 If you skip it for a few days, then it decays just like 338 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,160 fitness. So instead of guessing whether 339 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,960 that's sauna sit for a couple minutes or that easy treadmill 340 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:55,280 run is doing anything, you get a real read on whether you're 341 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,000 getting more resilient or if you need to back off. 342 00:19:58,240 --> 00:20:00,880 It takes something that used to require a sports scientist and 343 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:04,160 puts it right on your phone. And this isn't just a 344 00:20:04,160 --> 00:20:07,120 recreational tool. The reigning 5000 meter world 345 00:20:07,120 --> 00:20:10,200 champion leaned on it all of last season. 346 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:14,120 From easy heat spins on the bike to sessions in the sauna. 347 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:17,920 That same sensor that guided a world title is the one that you 348 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:19,960 can clip on for tomorrow's easy run. 349 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:24,320 So whether you're building for a goal race that runs the risk of 350 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:28,120 being hot, or if you're just training smarter this summer, 351 00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:31,360 the margin between being productive and being too hot is 352 00:20:31,360 --> 00:20:34,920 thinner than you think. So Core shows you exactly where 353 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:38,120 that line is. Citius Mag listeners get 10% off 354 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:41,880 the Core 2 with code Citius 10 at checkout when you visit 355 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:45,720 corebodytemp.com. That's Citius 10 at checkout 356 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,920 when you visit corebodytemp.com. Train in the heat. 357 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:54,640 Don't overcook it. So then overall sizing up and 358 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:59,480 just we'll go chronologically the 1500 first round, I mean, 359 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:02,280 pretty, I, I guess like breakdown for me. 360 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,760 I guess like what you took away from the first round that set up 361 00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,440 the final, because when we looked at just sort of who was 362 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,040 going to be in that final, it's like, well, this is anyone's 363 00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:13,040 race. To be fair, I sort of wish I'd 364 00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,760 run the final the same way that I ran the first round because I 365 00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:20,360 really felt strong. Like sort of controlling the 366 00:21:20,360 --> 00:21:23,720 first round, but my mindset with a little bit was like, I don't 367 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,560 really want to run like a 70 and then just sort of leave it up to 368 00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,960 chance because that introduces so many variables. 369 00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,760 But I also you only have to get top three to advance. 370 00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,640 Like I just figured go to the front and try to win would be 371 00:21:39,640 --> 00:21:42,800 the easiest way and I did. And I sort of wish I kept that 372 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:48,160 mindset in the final, like, but the same time, I think it's a 373 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:52,800 little different when, you know, top 3 isn't the consideration 374 00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:54,240 anymore. Like you just want to try to 375 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:57,160 win. And so it's a little different. 376 00:21:57,160 --> 00:22:02,960 Like, OK, well, if I go and lead everybody out, like, am I giving 377 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:07,440 myself up to just like the kickers right at the end? 378 00:22:07,720 --> 00:22:11,280 Like, and maybe in hindsight, if I control it the same way as the 379 00:22:11,280 --> 00:22:13,600 prelim? I mean, Nathan literally did it 380 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,400 in the final and he did a great job. 381 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:19,480 Like just not relinquishing once he decided to take the lead. 382 00:22:19,480 --> 00:22:23,600 And I think in a race that slow, that's a great strategy and I 383 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,880 think it was good to learn from it. 384 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:31,920 Cuz I, you know, I'm, I'm way more removed from my NCAA years 385 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,240 than, than some of the guys that I was racing in that final. 386 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:40,280 So, you know, like the Harrison, like the NAU kid, like the some 387 00:22:40,280 --> 00:22:44,400 of the college kids perform real well cuz that's they're still 388 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:48,080 used to doing that at regionals and conference champs. 389 00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:52,240 And you know, it, it was, even though the result didn't go the 390 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,680 way I wanted to be able to be that close in a race like that, 391 00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:58,800 sort of like you were touching on earlier, like there's still 392 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,840 ways for me to spin that positively with, OK, like I 393 00:23:02,840 --> 00:23:05,040 haven't run a race like that in quite a while. 394 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,080 All my diamonds, you know, like I've run 2 miles faster than 395 00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:11,720 that this season. So like to have something that's 396 00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:14,480 a completely different physical and mental stimulus. 397 00:23:14,480 --> 00:23:19,040 And obviously you want to win. Like I, I, I really wish I'd, 398 00:23:19,360 --> 00:23:22,760 you know, managed to do that. But like you can still, I think 399 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,080 that's still help like thinking about the race the next day, 400 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:27,760 like, OK, I just closing 51. I haven't had to do that in 401 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:30,800 quite a long time. Like, you know, it's, it's, 402 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,280 there's still positives there, you know? 403 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,120 Saturday night, where did you go? 404 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:38,440 Who did you talk to? You like, what do you do with 405 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,480 the hours you know after the race to get yourself back up 406 00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:46,720 for, you know, the next day when you've got the 5K? 407 00:23:46,960 --> 00:23:49,760 Luckily, like my my parents and my brother were still there. 408 00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:52,240 So like, you know, I got dinner with them. 409 00:23:52,240 --> 00:23:58,960 Like, you know, we like like we just, you know, we talked about 410 00:23:58,960 --> 00:24:01,760 whatever, like I talked about their day in, in, in New York, 411 00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:05,800 like, you know, like we didn't like we, we talked about the 412 00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,520 race, but just just, you know, like, just happy to have them. 413 00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:14,560 They're like happy to have a, a, a a distraction, happy to talk 414 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:18,000 about something that's not racing, which I think was good. 415 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,480 I think that the, the biggest issue that I had was like, you 416 00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:25,240 know, when most of the races are like these hard efforts from the 417 00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:29,520 gun, like, you know, you do your you go out in 56, you run your 418 00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,280 whatever and then you do a workout afterwards and then you 419 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,680 go to bed. And even if you're like all 420 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:36,800 caffeinated up, you're pretty tired. 421 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:43,640 Like, you know, we ran 300 hard meters and it was AUSA final. 422 00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:45,240 So like adrenaline's through the roof. 423 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,760 So like, and I'm not going to do a big workout or anything to 424 00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,320 tire myself out the next day. So like, as much as I tried to 425 00:24:52,320 --> 00:24:57,720 like relax and like I just was still like, I probably fell 426 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,440 asleep at like 4. Like I I just couldn't, you 427 00:25:01,440 --> 00:25:04,800 know, I just couldn't get my mind to. 428 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,280 And it wasn't even like a you know, it wasn't like a oh, you 429 00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,960 should have done this. Oh, you should have done that. 430 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:12,480 Like, yeah, I was replaying the race some. 431 00:25:12,480 --> 00:25:16,680 But some of it's just that general like, alertness that you 432 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,840 have for AUS champs that I just couldn't switch off. 433 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,480 So but I'd also didn't do myself any favors because eventually I 434 00:25:24,480 --> 00:25:29,000 just like, got on YouTube and then read like the LetsRun right 435 00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:32,280 up of the race. And they're like, like Vince 436 00:25:32,280 --> 00:25:37,760 missed his best shot like this. And that like, so yeah, I, I 437 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,480 could have been better about it, but I did my best to shut my 438 00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:43,400 brain off. It just it just didn't work. 439 00:25:43,760 --> 00:25:47,920 So then once it's Saturday, I guess like, and you wake up at 440 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,920 whatever time it is. If you went to bed at 4:00 and 441 00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:52,840 you woke up at what? I, I woke up at like close to 442 00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:55,000 10, so I at least got like, all right. 443 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,160 I got to, you know, like it wasn't too bad. 444 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:01,800 So you wake up at 6:00 and then from there or you got your six 445 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,760 hours of sleep, wake up at 10 from there, I guess like how did 446 00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:09,040 you sort of assess your, your chances at this 5K, right? 447 00:26:09,040 --> 00:26:11,680 Because I guess we look at the start list. 448 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,720 I don't even remember if like we knew at the time that Grant and 449 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:18,800 Woody had had scratched, but you know, they're coming back from 450 00:26:18,840 --> 00:26:22,160 the 10K and or they were supposed to come back from the 451 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:26,360 10K and then there was a slew of other guys who were coming back 452 00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:30,960 from from the 15. So I mean, there's a scenario 453 00:26:30,960 --> 00:26:35,120 where, you know, you feel like you put so much into the 1500 454 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:38,240 and you just go and run the the 5K and finish 8th. 455 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,280 But that's not what ended up happening. 456 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,000 So like, what was the switch, I guess that happens that morning 457 00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:47,320 to feed into your confidence to potentially win this race? 458 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:51,800 I'm I was actually, I just I had a like follow up call with my 459 00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:54,360 with Shannon, my sports like yesterday. 460 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:56,520 And like I talked about this a lot with her. 461 00:26:56,520 --> 00:27:02,800 Like, you know, after the 15, like I like breezed through drug 462 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:05,480 testing like the fastest that I've ever done, which was 463 00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,760 awesome. And then I spent twice as much 464 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:13,200 time consoling my mom after drug testing that I did like having 465 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:16,680 to go through drug like like, and I was like telling her like, 466 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,720 Hey, I feel like I executed well, like I've got another race 467 00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,000 tomorrow, like I'm just going to go execute the same way. 468 00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,720 And if I do that, like I'm going to win, like, and that's not 469 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,800 like, you know, that's not like a disrespect to like who was or 470 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,480 wasn't like in the race. Like I just felt like, you know, 471 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,080 I'm not guaranteeing that. I just felt like I could, if I 472 00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:41,760 did the same thing, if I felt the same way physically and 473 00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:45,240 executed the same way, then I felt like I'd have a chance. 474 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:49,400 And but I wasn't even like before the 1500, I wasn't really 475 00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,480 that vocal about it. I was just like, OK, you know, I 476 00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:54,480 know I have a chance to win internally. 477 00:27:54,480 --> 00:27:59,080 Like that's enough, but I think being a little more vocal about 478 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:03,720 it, like with my like mom and with my like Vt like group chat, 479 00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:07,800 like, like I think it helped because I, you know, we talk a 480 00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:10,080 lot about like being process oriented. 481 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,240 And I think this was a scenario where I think being a little 482 00:28:14,240 --> 00:28:18,080 more vocal about the outcome helped fuel the process. 483 00:28:18,120 --> 00:28:21,360 If I hadn't really had that mindset of like, God, I was so 484 00:28:21,360 --> 00:28:24,920 close in the 15, like if I could just execute the same way I can 485 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:28,280 try to win again, like, and just been like, we'll see what 486 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:31,040 happens. Like I was specific with what I 487 00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:36,600 wanted and then I let that sort of fuel my belief in the race 488 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:40,160 rather than like adding pressure to the race, if that makes 489 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,400 sense. Like I feel like it helped 490 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,240 create that belief that Oh yeah. Like, why can't we try to go 491 00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:52,720 and, and, and, and do this? So, yeah, like I, I think that 492 00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,600 the switch happened pretty quickly after the 1500. 493 00:28:56,000 --> 00:29:01,720 And then, you know, luckily, like I, I warmed up and my body 494 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:05,320 felt fine. Like, and I just, it's a 495 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,520 combination of like that motivation plus being a lot more 496 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:12,240 relaxed in terms of like, you know, I'm not a 5K guy. 497 00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:15,240 Like there's no pressure on me. Like I was the top seed in the 498 00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:17,840 1500. And whether or not other people 499 00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:20,600 knew that, I know that internally to me that means like 500 00:29:21,000 --> 00:29:23,720 I got a real shot here. Like going in the 5K was just 501 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:27,920 like I run 15 hundreds all year. I've run 15K in the last five 502 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:30,560 years. Like, you know, if I do great, 503 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,600 it's awesome. And if I don't, I'm not a 5K 504 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,320 guy. Like there's a a baked in excuse 505 00:29:35,360 --> 00:29:37,520 like right there. So yeah. 506 00:29:38,040 --> 00:29:40,160 Yeah, I, I had to look it up. I was like, wait, what? 507 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,840 Before this, 'cause I forgot about, well, you had to qualify 508 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,040 somewhere. So that was Stanford in May, 509 00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:51,320 early May, That's where you ran 1313. 510 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:55,160 Then we have to go back to like what the pandemic, right For 511 00:29:55,160 --> 00:30:01,560 20/20 for your previous 5K. And someone noted this in our 512 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:03,360 group chat. I think it was Merbur where he 513 00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,800 said like kind of funny right now that like the US 5K champ 514 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:12,120 ran NCAA crossed just one time and was 190 way back in the day. 515 00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:17,240 So how did you feel that just sort of your, your, your 516 00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:19,320 strength, I guess up until this point? 517 00:30:19,760 --> 00:30:22,360 Yeah, yeah. No, I felt that was the thing 518 00:30:22,360 --> 00:30:25,880 I've I've, I mean, it wasn't. I think my confidence in the 519 00:30:25,880 --> 00:30:30,200 race wasn't based on nothing. Like I think for me running that 520 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:37,200 1313 and Peyton Jordan, like I in my trajectory of my career, 521 00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,480 that was a big deal. Like in the grand scheme of 522 00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,760 running, not a big deal. Like, you know, my competitors 523 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:50,280 in in in the five, like my 1500 competitors are capable of much 524 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,840 faster in the five Ki mean Cole's the world champ in the 525 00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,640 5K, you know, but at the same time, like you have to take the 526 00:30:56,640 --> 00:31:00,720 cue from those guys. Like, OK, all these 1500 guys 527 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,120 are not only training like 5K guys, doing the double 528 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,280 threshold, getting in a good volume of, you know, aerobic 529 00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:11,680 work, but they're racing them at a highly competitive level. 530 00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,560 So, you know, I don't think we decide to do Peyton Jordan 531 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:19,640 specifically to qualify for USAS, but we thought like, OK, 532 00:31:19,640 --> 00:31:22,960 if this goes well, then you come back for USAS. 533 00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:26,600 You know, you run a time trial ish type of race and then get a 534 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:31,400 chance to do it at USA's and like, you know, work on that 535 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,120 championship longer distance race is only going to help when 536 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,240 you come back to the 1500s. Like I think it was just Payton 537 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,080 Jordan was just sort of like an objective measure for me of like 538 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,080 I couldn't have done this last year or in 2024. 539 00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:51,360 Like, you know, like maybe I could have been 1325 or 1330, 540 00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:55,680 but like I came off of that race thinking that I had more in the 541 00:31:55,680 --> 00:32:00,520 tank, like, and it was a really good feeling about like, you 542 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:05,640 know, I've been up here in flag at for over three years now and 543 00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:07,520 I don't think that sort of strength would have been there 544 00:32:07,520 --> 00:32:11,440 if I hadn't been here. So it's a sort of, you know, 545 00:32:11,880 --> 00:32:16,720 even more than the 1500 results was a sort of good indicator 546 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,040 like, OK, like you're stronger than you were before. 547 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:21,640 It's an objective measure of that. 548 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,960 Like no reason we can't translate that to A to a 549 00:32:25,960 --> 00:32:29,840 championship setting. Ends up being a 1346 race. 550 00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:34,120 So what's the point of the race where you start to lick your 551 00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,200 chops and be like, all right, this is this is falling into 552 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:40,360 into my, like right into my hands. 553 00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:43,080 I don't know if I would have said I would have gone that far, 554 00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,960 but like, I did feel like, OK, like, I mean, we're out there 555 00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,880 like jogging. Like, you know, I, I, I, I just 556 00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,360 felt like I was very conscientious of like, if I do 557 00:32:56,440 --> 00:33:00,440 feel like I use as little energy as possible until the last, like 558 00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,960 until whatever move is made that I feel like that's the move 559 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:07,680 that's going to stick, then I'll have a good shot. 560 00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,760 Like as long as that move is within the last, you know, mile 561 00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:12,400 or so. And it was funny, like I was 562 00:33:12,400 --> 00:33:16,320 talking, you know, I thought Grant was running until like we 563 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,040 warmed up and learned that he wasn't. 564 00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:24,000 And like, in the week prior, I was on an easy run with Casey or 565 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,080 Matt or probably I think it was Casey like talking about all 566 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:32,200 like, you know, like, I think it'll be tough if Grant goes 567 00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,800 with a mile to go and like closes in sub four. 568 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,960 Like I feel like I have a a tough time dealing with that. 569 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:43,800 And like I was so in the race, like you don't even think about 570 00:33:44,000 --> 00:33:48,440 like what's going on and then you look back and you close in 571 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:50,720 357. It's like the exact thing that I 572 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:52,960 was like, oh man, I'm really going to have trouble if this 573 00:33:52,960 --> 00:33:58,920 happens. So like I think just like, I 574 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:01,760 don't know if there was a specific moment, but I will say 575 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:06,600 like with 2:50 to go when like Casey came by, that was such a 576 00:34:06,600 --> 00:34:08,960 good boost because like that's my guy, that's who I've been 577 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,440 training with. Like I got to go up there like 578 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:13,679 with him. And when we're 1/2 with like 100 579 00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:17,960 to go, I'm like, Oh my God, like we're going to go 12 like and 580 00:34:17,960 --> 00:34:21,239 it's going to be awesome. So I think like I was, I mean, I 581 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:24,199 was moving my way up, but him making that move like really 582 00:34:24,199 --> 00:34:27,480 snapped me into like, it's, you know, it's go time now. 583 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:32,560 Like and yeah, it was exciting to like be side by side in that 584 00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,440 scenario. Yeah, I'm looking at all the 585 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:36,840 names that ended up there. It's and, and this is something 586 00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:39,239 that I think that we noted like over the weekend is like so many 587 00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:42,360 of these guys are like you think of as 1500 guys. 588 00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:45,080 But Cooper's I think like the Cooper and Tom Ratcliffe are 589 00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:48,480 maybe like the two who have committed more to the 5K in the 590 00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,960 last like 2 years or so. It's now it just sort of starts 591 00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,159 to beg the question, like, have you started to give it? 592 00:34:55,159 --> 00:34:58,880 I think a little bit more thought of like, I love the the 593 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:00,560 1500. It's bringing you so many 594 00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,440 awesome moments, but it's like, is there more of a future in the 595 00:35:03,440 --> 00:35:06,880 5K? Yeah, like I can, I can only I 596 00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,360 the thing with the the race this past week, like I can only race 597 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:15,400 who's on the track. Like if Nico Parker, Graham, 598 00:35:15,440 --> 00:35:22,120 like like if you know, Grant, like Abdi, like there's so many 599 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,120 like really high level 5K guys in the US that like weren't 600 00:35:26,120 --> 00:35:27,920 there. And I obviously recognize that 601 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:30,880 like same thing in the in the 15 too. 602 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:35,320 Like, like I'm not going to, you know, I'm definitely gaining 603 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,000 confidence from this. Am I going to gain confidence to 604 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,960 the point where I'm like, OK, well, all these guys that have 605 00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,720 run 12:45, I'm suddenly going to be competitive with them? 606 00:35:43,720 --> 00:35:47,440 Like probably not. But I do think like sort of what 607 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:49,520 I was talking about before, we're going to keep training the 608 00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:51,440 same way. You know, I'm hopefully going to 609 00:35:51,440 --> 00:35:55,680 stay on the same sort of healthy and consistent trajectory that 610 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:58,680 I've been on. And, and, and we train very 611 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:00,880 aerobically up here. And, and I think that's going to 612 00:36:00,880 --> 00:36:05,640 result in, yeah, I'd love to take a crack at 13 O 5 or 613 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:10,520 whatever, like sub 13. Like might be a tough ask, but 614 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,800 like, if you told me this year I'd run 1313, I wouldn't have 615 00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:18,360 believed you. So, you know, I want to keep it. 616 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,040 I don't want to get too much into expectations as much as I 617 00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,880 just want to trust the process that's got me this far. 618 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,320 And like, yeah, I definitely would have been telling you that 619 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,080 I would have won a championship 5K. 620 00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,520 So that's really awesome. And and it does bode well for 621 00:36:33,520 --> 00:36:36,400 like, you know, racing more of them in the future. 622 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:40,920 I'm sure that's going to be a little more of a, a, a focus 623 00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,360 like whether or not it, you know, I would not expect it to 624 00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:51,200 shift things away from the 15 as much as it just adds confidence 625 00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:55,920 like to the overall fitness and overall races that I feel like I 626 00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:57,680 can be competitive in, which is exciting. 627 00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:00,080 Yes, if we're thinking of so many of these things as like 628 00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:03,360 boxes that you're checking and these tools that you're adding 629 00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:07,640 to the toolkit, like what, what's 1 of the next things that 630 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,400 now you're looking at when you're reviewing the season, 631 00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:14,520 reviewing this weekend and you have hopes of, you know, Diamond 632 00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,160 League final, potentially like World Ultimate Championships? 633 00:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,920 Like what are some of the things you want to work on when we've 634 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:25,240 got a couple weeks of training ahead before the European season 635 00:37:25,320 --> 00:37:28,200 resumes? Like then you'll get some extra 636 00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,960 reps and then it's championship season. 637 00:37:29,960 --> 00:37:32,200 Like what are some of the things that you kind of want to? 638 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,760 What's the next box to check? Yeah, no, that's a great 639 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,160 question. I think the next box to to to 640 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:45,520 check is, is translate winning a important race into the belief 641 00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,600 that I can win other important races. 642 00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,000 Like it's been, you know, like not to say like, I mean, the US 643 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:57,600 Rd. titles were important races to me like, and to other people, 644 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,160 but I think like winning a title on the track is definitely like 645 00:38:01,600 --> 00:38:05,880 a different echelon of like confidence. 646 00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:09,960 So I think like bringing that, yes, it was the 5K and it wasn't 647 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:14,200 the 15, but like I just again, in my own journey, I know the 648 00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:16,640 sort of internal importance of that. 649 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:20,800 So I want to try to bring that mindset into Celestia and into 650 00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,600 these other races, but particularly like the World Rd. 651 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:27,600 champs. It was like my big goal this 652 00:38:27,600 --> 00:38:32,400 whole year like that and and and and world indoors, like I and I 653 00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,760 Miss World indoors by however many hundreds of a second. 654 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:40,400 So like to make the road team meant so much and like it's so 655 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:44,320 it was been so beneficial because it's the last thing. 656 00:38:44,440 --> 00:38:47,800 So like I have, I've had five months worth not three months 657 00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:51,040 now, but 5 total months knowing that I have that on the horizon 658 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,640 and every race in the interim can sort of be like, what did I 659 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:56,160 learn from this? What did I learn from this? 660 00:38:56,160 --> 00:38:59,360 How does it translate to that? Like, I'm just really excited 661 00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:04,360 for the prospect of like being fully peaked, fully ready to go 662 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,240 for that. Like having these added 663 00:39:08,240 --> 00:39:11,800 successes along the way, like, you know, the Diamond League 664 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,640 final and the ultimate. Like I don't think there's a lot 665 00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,440 of, I'm excited. I just want to go and mix it up. 666 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,720 Like there's not a lot of pressure on those because I 667 00:39:19,720 --> 00:39:22,200 didn't expect those things at the start of the year. 668 00:39:22,240 --> 00:39:25,440 Like and now that they're there, that's awesome. 669 00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:30,680 They're another like high level prep for the World Rd. 670 00:39:30,680 --> 00:39:32,360 Mile. But I want to go into the World 671 00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:33,920 Rd. Mile and try to win. 672 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:37,600 Like that's been my goal since the US Rd. champs. 673 00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:38,960 Obviously yard's going to be there. 674 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:42,880 Who's one of the best Smilers in the world right now? 675 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:45,240 I'm sure there's going to be a super strong field there. 676 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:48,080 And I'm excited about that. Like, I've never had the chance 677 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,960 to win the to, to wear the Team USA uniform before. 678 00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:58,960 So my toolbox until then is almost more mental than it is 679 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,320 physical. Like, OK, translate these things 680 00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:03,680 from the first half of the season, if you want to call it 681 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,760 that. Take all of that confidence and 682 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,440 like, translate it into that day. 683 00:40:10,840 --> 00:40:15,280 Like being strong, committing, trying to win. 684 00:40:15,480 --> 00:40:20,240 Like showing up for your first two USA as the best version of 685 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:22,880 yourself with all these things you've learned this season so 686 00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:24,440 far. I think that's awesome. 687 00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,040 And I, I had to go back and, and, and look that there's, 688 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,760 you've never worn the Team USA kit for like a like a Pan Am 689 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,720 games or anything like that. And so this is this is gonna be 690 00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:39,880 the first time. Yeah, I in in 2023 I got like 691 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:45,840 selected for like the world, like the world cross in in is in 692 00:40:46,560 --> 00:40:50,400 Bathurst. But I was like, I was, this was 693 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,560 when I was in between OTC and hadn't moved to flag yet. 694 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:57,200 It was like probably the one of the lowest competitive and 695 00:40:57,200 --> 00:41:00,640 health points of my career. And like I was banged up and it 696 00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:03,560 felt bad, but I was like it was for the, it was for like the 697 00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:05,000 relay. And I was like, I'm not going to 698 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,040 show up injured like I like. So I had I as the meme goes 699 00:41:10,040 --> 00:41:16,520 these days, I turned it down. But yeah, like didn't do that. 700 00:41:16,520 --> 00:41:19,480 And and I've come close a number of times. 701 00:41:19,480 --> 00:41:25,080 So, yeah, I mean, would I have liked to make US teams when I 702 00:41:25,080 --> 00:41:26,520 was like 20? Yes. 703 00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:31,080 But is it going to be a little sweeter that I'm 31 and finally 704 00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:34,160 doing something that, you know, it just makes it, it, it, it, it 705 00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:40,680 makes committing to this sport for as long as I have feel, you 706 00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:42,480 know, I would have been at peace with it. 707 00:41:42,480 --> 00:41:45,880 But it makes it feel a lot more justified that like I'm now 708 00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:50,480 finally getting opportunities like this that I believed would, 709 00:41:50,720 --> 00:41:53,200 would, would happen at some point down the line. 710 00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:57,840 Out with the old and in with the new. 711 00:41:58,160 --> 00:42:01,520 The Citius Mag Podcast is brought to you by Lollipop. 712 00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:05,200 And in honor of their brand new canned design and two new 713 00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:08,960 flavors, why not mix up the ad read with a brand new voice? 714 00:42:09,120 --> 00:42:12,800 Hi there, it's your favorite iconic marathon runner, Gabby 715 00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:15,760 Hentman. If you're like me, this ad is 716 00:42:15,760 --> 00:42:18,920 currently haunting you in the middle of a horrendously hot 717 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:23,600 run, sun beating down, no end insight, and now you have to 718 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,040 hear about the most refreshing drink on the market. 719 00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:30,440 Well, buckle up because OLIPOP has two new delicious flavors, 720 00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:33,840 Raspberry Sherbert and BlackBerry Vanilla. 721 00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:38,320 The Raspberry Sherbert is sweet and tangy, and the BlackBerry 722 00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:43,040 Vanilla is the perfect balance of citrus and creamy, both 723 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:46,280 absolutely divine after a run in the sun. 724 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:51,600 OLIPOP is a prebiotic soda with real plant fiber that supports 725 00:42:51,600 --> 00:42:54,560 gut health. It's like your gut microbiome is 726 00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:58,480 doing push ups while you enjoy a crisp drink that will come in 727 00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:00,400 handy for your fall marathon build. 728 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:05,720 Plus, there are only 5 grams of sugar per can, so if you're like 729 00:43:05,720 --> 00:43:09,480 me and sugar maxing all your long runs just to get through, 730 00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:12,920 it's nice to enjoy a drink that isn't loaded with any junk. 731 00:43:13,520 --> 00:43:18,080 For 25% off your next order, use Citius 25 at checkout. 732 00:43:18,640 --> 00:43:23,200 And for more ad reads like this, use Gabby 100 in the Citius Mag 733 00:43:23,200 --> 00:43:25,480 comment section. Happy running. 734 00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,840 I I take it you're a guy? Who kind of processes, you know, 735 00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:36,280 these races and these goal? Target races like in chunks, 736 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:40,560 like you're not necessarily I obviously everyone builds their 737 00:43:40,560 --> 00:43:45,000 whole life around Olympic cycles and the trials, but it's sort of 738 00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:48,120 like you're not mentally exhausting yourself with 739 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,720 stressing over like how that race is going to go, who's going 740 00:43:50,720 --> 00:43:52,880 to be there, like which shape you're going to have to be 741 00:43:52,880 --> 00:43:55,160 there. So it's like, how do, like do 742 00:43:55,160 --> 00:43:58,360 you, how do you keep the trials like at an arm's length while 743 00:43:58,360 --> 00:44:01,600 also at the same time knowing that all of this builds towards 744 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:04,920 that? Yeah, no, that's a really good 745 00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:07,120 question. Especially like having been 4th 746 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,840 at the, you know, I feel like that is definitely a narrative 747 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:14,520 when you, when you get 4th, you like the, you know, within 10 748 00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:18,800 minutes of that, it's like, OK, well, four years till the next 749 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,960 one. Like like what do I, what do I 750 00:44:20,960 --> 00:44:26,560 do in the interim? But yeah, I think I just think 751 00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:30,200 for me it almost works in my favor that like I'm still like, 752 00:44:30,640 --> 00:44:35,600 again, I know that I've in general been at a getting to a 753 00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,360 higher and higher level in the sport, but like I even had the 754 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:42,320 these international opportunities like yes, the 755 00:44:42,320 --> 00:44:46,120 diamond lease, but like not a Team USA international 756 00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:48,360 opportunity. So it almost I feel like it 757 00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:53,120 works in my favor a little bit that like if I get to run the 758 00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,760 road champs, like I can focus, I can, you know, really just focus 759 00:44:57,760 --> 00:45:00,280 on that. And like after that, think, 760 00:45:00,400 --> 00:45:04,480 think, OK, like what did I take from that experience that builds 761 00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:09,080 towards hopefully being in LA of 2028, but not thinking about 762 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,920 like, oh, like, you know, I'm gonna, you know, use the off 763 00:45:14,920 --> 00:45:18,440 year or whatever. Like at my age and with my like 764 00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,360 relative lack of international experience, like there's no off 765 00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,480 year. But at the same time, like I 766 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,960 think that's making me better. Like I've been very committed 767 00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:32,720 this year, very healthy, very consistent. 768 00:45:32,800 --> 00:45:39,200 And yeah, I mean that I, you know, I, I had no reason why to 769 00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,880 believe that I can't. If I can't, if I can do that for 770 00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:45,960 two more years, like why not? Why can't I be there? 771 00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:52,360 So, but I think, I think for me that the the sort of in my own 772 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:57,760 trajectory, like the sort of enhanced like meaning of those 773 00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,680 other opportunities that maybe aren't the same as an Olympics. 774 00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:04,560 Like to me, like just getting that singlet on it at the World 775 00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,560 Rd. Champs means a hell of a lot 776 00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:10,760 like and it might, you know, if I'd already been in a world 777 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,680 outdoors or whatever. Like maybe it's not the same, 778 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:17,920 but to me it just means so much. Like, you know, it's easy to to 779 00:46:18,000 --> 00:46:21,880 to keep the focus on these sort of like closer term things. 780 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,080 I mean, I'm just thinking through the schedule and I think 781 00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:28,160 like you may have to wear the USA uniform at World Ultimates 782 00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:30,560 if you stay in the quota and, and, and get the chance to go 783 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:32,040 there. So that that'll be the first 784 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,880 time too, yeah. Yeah, and I mean, that would be 785 00:46:34,880 --> 00:46:35,920 awesome. I mean, that'd be great. 786 00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:38,000 I mean, that's, you know, as good as the Diamond. 787 00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,760 I mean, with that field like is inevitably going to be the best 788 00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:45,040 race I've ever been in. So yeah, I really hope that I 789 00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:47,600 can. You know, we, we, I think we, 790 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:51,920 I'm, I'm, you know, I'm pretty happy with, with, with how, you 791 00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:56,600 know, Steven, like like my coach Steven Hawes and I have 792 00:46:57,000 --> 00:47:01,560 structure this year in terms of like, you know, you don't have 793 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,880 to like peak specifically for USA is like we got just ready 794 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:08,480 enough for the US Rd. champs. They're obviously very early. 795 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,120 Like we got just ready enough where we're new. 796 00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:13,720 We were fit enough. We could be competitive and make 797 00:47:13,720 --> 00:47:17,880 the team like we did it. Box ticked next, like you get 798 00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,320 the good training in, you sort of commit to this mid season 799 00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:24,760 Diamond League racing schedule with the idea that you can try 800 00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:29,240 to qualify for the final, try to qualify for the ultimate and put 801 00:47:29,240 --> 00:47:32,200 ourselves like, I'm not, it's not guaranteed, but I put myself 802 00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:36,520 in a position to do those things like box ticked, like come back, 803 00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,520 get some training in before the postseason, include Usas in 804 00:47:40,520 --> 00:47:42,680 there because to me, I've never won one. 805 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:47,000 It's worth going contract wise, it's worth going experience 806 00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,440 wise, try to win. Like was it the way I expected? 807 00:47:51,480 --> 00:47:53,200 Absolutely not. Did it happen? 808 00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:54,720 Yeah. So that's awesome. 809 00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,800 Like box ticks. So I feel like, you know, I've, 810 00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:01,840 I've never had a year like this with like, you know, I'm and I'm 811 00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:03,880 not taking it for granted by any means. 812 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:09,480 Like I'm, I'm still not a, a, a world beater or whatever, but 813 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,040 like it, I, I having these, having a year like this has just 814 00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,160 been great. And I really think like, you 815 00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:20,160 know, again, if I didn't have these things that meant a lot to 816 00:48:20,160 --> 00:48:24,320 me to focus on like probably wouldn't be as fit as I am. 817 00:48:24,320 --> 00:48:27,240 And you build off that fitness in the next year and in the next 818 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:28,920 year and then the trials are there. 819 00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:33,520 So, you know, I think it works in my favor to have have these 820 00:48:33,520 --> 00:48:36,800 things that I've cared about this year for sure. 821 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,680 I like looking at an athlete's sort of like history and seeing 822 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,560 like, you know, the coaches that they've had along the way. 823 00:48:44,760 --> 00:48:47,560 And so then when I was looking at yours, it's like if, you 824 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:51,680 know, if we go college to pro, like it's it's, you know, a 825 00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:55,280 fantastic cast of Ben Thomas, Mark Rowland, Steven Haas, But I 826 00:48:55,280 --> 00:48:56,720 kind of want to go back to high school. 827 00:48:56,720 --> 00:48:59,080 Marilyn Bevins, your was your high school coach. 828 00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:03,640 Yes, Sir. What, what's the biggest lesson 829 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:06,280 you or, or, or best piece of advice, I guess that you took 830 00:49:06,280 --> 00:49:09,160 away from her 'cause like for me, having just written a book 831 00:49:09,160 --> 00:49:12,960 about the marathon, that's I, there is a chapter I have of, 832 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,840 you know, on her in there because I think, you know, I, I, 833 00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:21,480 there's, I, I chose to put together this list of like the 834 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:24,640 26 like defining marathons in American history and every 835 00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:27,080 athlete on the list can only get one. 836 00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:31,440 So that made some decisions tougher, like which one do I 837 00:49:31,440 --> 00:49:36,440 pick for Frank Shorter, 72 or 76 or Bill Rogers has all those New 838 00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:39,560 York's and and Boston's or what's Joni getting Joni's is 839 00:49:39,560 --> 00:49:43,840 pretty obvious, but you know, I in in for a big chunk of that 840 00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:45,440 list. I also wanted to find 841 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,640 performances that were very much under the radar and that like a 842 00:49:49,640 --> 00:49:52,120 lot of people, especially thinking of the running 843 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:56,080 population now that that, you know, those people who found 844 00:49:56,080 --> 00:49:58,720 running in the last five years who love the event but don't 845 00:49:58,720 --> 00:50:02,360 necessarily know the history, they may not know of Marilyn 846 00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:05,880 Bevins's. Was it 1975? 847 00:50:05,880 --> 00:50:07,600 It may have been. I have to go back and look. 848 00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,520 But that's where she finished fourth. 849 00:50:10,240 --> 00:50:13,400 So I picked the one where 77, I think is when she was second. 850 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:18,360 But but 75 was when she finished fourth and broke 3 hours for the 851 00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:21,560 first time. And why was that so momentous? 852 00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,560 Is that that's the first time, you know, an African American 853 00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,120 woman broke three hours. And from there there was also 854 00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,320 just sort of record keeping of, you know, you know, black 855 00:50:32,320 --> 00:50:35,040 American women who have accomplished that feat. 856 00:50:35,040 --> 00:50:37,400 And so she's the pioneer in that sense. 857 00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:41,680 And so getting to, you know, read as much as I could about 858 00:50:41,680 --> 00:50:46,120 that race was like, super, you know, super cool. 859 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:49,600 And like, it's something that I'm hoping to educate folks on. 860 00:50:49,600 --> 00:50:52,320 But when I stumbled upon that, just sort of been looking and 861 00:50:52,320 --> 00:50:55,120 seeing like, wait, Marilyn Bevins coached Vince Ciattei in 862 00:50:55,120 --> 00:50:56,800 high school. And so I was like, oh, what a 863 00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,440 cool tie to history here. Yeah. 864 00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,040 Oh, no, I, I, yeah, I mean, and I couldn't have, I mean, I 865 00:51:03,040 --> 00:51:05,680 didn't know anything about running like, you know, in high 866 00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:08,480 school. So I couldn't even like until I 867 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:14,680 was a probably a junior senior, like and like started like, you 868 00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:18,440 know, truly getting the running bug and learning more about 869 00:51:18,440 --> 00:51:23,400 running and talking to her about like running like beyond just 870 00:51:23,400 --> 00:51:26,360 like coming to practice and being a high school freshman or 871 00:51:26,360 --> 00:51:29,240 sophomore. Like could I really, like gain 872 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:32,400 an appreciation for that? Like, but I'm, yeah, I mean, 873 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:37,160 like so lucky to have like somehow had that like be my, you 874 00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:42,280 know, I, I think that's a that's a, you know, like that's just 875 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:45,640 one of those things where like, OK, well, you know, this is how 876 00:51:45,640 --> 00:51:47,720 you started out. Like it makes sense that you 877 00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:51,880 somehow committed the next 15 years of your life to to the 878 00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:56,120 sport. Like, I think she was just, I 879 00:51:56,120 --> 00:51:59,080 think I think the biggest thing that I like, like took from her 880 00:51:59,080 --> 00:52:04,320 was just like, like, like just being like a competitor. 881 00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:09,280 Like, you know, she like, cuz in her career, like she's competing 882 00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:12,640 against like far greater odds than just showing up in the 883 00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,320 start, like racing the people around you. 884 00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:19,440 Like she's got like so many hurdles to clear before you even 885 00:52:19,440 --> 00:52:22,320 get to the start line. Like with, I mean, she's just 886 00:52:22,320 --> 00:52:26,280 like a legitimate trailblazer in the sport. 887 00:52:26,280 --> 00:52:29,800 So and yeah, extremely underrated as a, you know, in 888 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:35,360 terms of like the pantheon of, of, of, of American distance 889 00:52:35,360 --> 00:52:39,080 running. And yeah, like, I, I mean, it's, 890 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:43,400 it's, it's so cool to be able to say that, you know, she was my 891 00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,480 coach. Like it, it's, it's awesome. 892 00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:50,720 So I think like, and you know, we didn't, you know it, it was 893 00:52:50,720 --> 00:52:55,760 definitely more of like a, a, I look back on it and I'm, I'm, 894 00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,400 I'm happy with it because it was more of a, like a relationship 895 00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:03,080 with the sport, sort of like coaching than like we weren't 896 00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,080 technical. We weren't running 70 miles a 897 00:53:07,080 --> 00:53:12,200 week like, but was learning to race like, and I was learning to 898 00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:16,200 compete and I was learning to love the sport. 899 00:53:16,480 --> 00:53:23,840 And I think those things are much longer term healthy things 900 00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:29,880 to build when you're, you know, a new kid in the sport, then 901 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:35,720 maybe, you know, other like more technical training centric 902 00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,280 things. So I'm yeah, so grateful that 903 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,880 I'm, I'm glad you brought that up because yeah, it's just a 904 00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,840 really it's, it was such a cool thing to happen like right at 905 00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:49,560 the start of my any relationship with running so. 906 00:53:49,720 --> 00:53:52,240 Yeah. So then you go on to Ben Thomas, 907 00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:55,400 then Mark Roland and now pass. Like, how are they all 908 00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:57,080 different? And like what? 909 00:53:57,200 --> 00:54:00,840 What did they each sort of get out of you to make you the 910 00:54:00,840 --> 00:54:04,160 athlete that you are? Yeah, I mean, I've been lucky 911 00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:07,520 with that too, because I feel like I've I've I've, I've had 912 00:54:08,240 --> 00:54:14,000 each of those coaches like the most relevant point in my career 913 00:54:14,000 --> 00:54:16,840 to have them. Like where you know, having 914 00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:22,160 Coach Thomas like super involved with like everything like it's 915 00:54:22,160 --> 00:54:25,000 like if you're there, you're like you're bought into this 916 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:29,600 program, which is a great program, obviously, but you're 917 00:54:29,600 --> 00:54:34,720 bought in, you're locked in and like you've sort of like learn 918 00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:38,640 what works through just doing the training, if that makes 919 00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:41,400 sense. And then moving to coach Roe as 920 00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:45,360 a pro, like he was still like pretty detail oriented around 921 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:48,680 the sessions, around the weight lifting, but he also wanted you 922 00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,080 to have a little more individual license over like your, you 923 00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:55,840 know, what you wanted to do with the training, like how much 924 00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,240 mileage you wanted to do around the workouts and stuff like 925 00:54:58,240 --> 00:55:02,240 that. And I think as a, you know, as 926 00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:06,640 someone in a very like very structured Virginia Tech 927 00:55:06,640 --> 00:55:12,040 environment to be a new pro, it was a good balance of like still 928 00:55:12,040 --> 00:55:14,840 having an amount of structure when Roe was there. 929 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,080 But then like learning, OK, what works a little better for me, 930 00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,880 like outside of the just the workouts and the lifts. 931 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:26,040 And then with has, you know, by the time I got here to 932 00:55:26,040 --> 00:55:30,600 Flagstaff, like I'd already been a, a, a pro for four years. 933 00:55:30,720 --> 00:55:35,680 So I think like I got here, you have a lot of individual license 934 00:55:35,680 --> 00:55:40,720 about like, you know, hey, like there's a back and forth about a 935 00:55:40,720 --> 00:55:43,280 lot of the training we do. Like when do we want to do this? 936 00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,600 You know, why do we want to do this? 937 00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:49,680 And I think having, you know, been a collegiate athlete for 938 00:55:49,680 --> 00:55:53,160 five years and a pro athlete at that point, I know my body a lot 939 00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,080 better and I understand the intent a lot better about like, 940 00:55:57,240 --> 00:56:01,960 OK, what are we doing? And now like, yeah, I can go, 941 00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:04,400 OK, like, well, if we're doing this race, like why don't we do 942 00:56:04,400 --> 00:56:05,560 this? Why don't we do this? 943 00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:09,920 And yeah, has, I feel like Haas a really good like level of like 944 00:56:10,120 --> 00:56:13,800 when he is going to go like, you know, this is what we're going 945 00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:18,640 to do for the next three weeks versus like, OK, we're not like 946 00:56:18,640 --> 00:56:21,160 what, what do you feel like about this or this? 947 00:56:21,160 --> 00:56:25,560 And, you know, it's, it's been working really, really well for 948 00:56:25,560 --> 00:56:30,720 me and for a ton of the Dark Sky team, like our, you know, the 949 00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:32,280 Under Armour Dark Sky Distance and Flagstaff. 950 00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,440 Maybe it's just chip on the shoulder sort of thing. 951 00:56:35,440 --> 00:56:38,040 But I still feel like we're quite underrated as a team. 952 00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:41,040 Like I really feel like our depth is pretty, pretty awesome. 953 00:56:41,040 --> 00:56:42,760 So it's, it's just cool to be a part of that. 954 00:56:42,760 --> 00:56:47,280 It's a cool to like, like go to USAS and, and, and do that like 955 00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:51,240 and stamp Under Armour right there is like national champ. 956 00:56:51,240 --> 00:56:53,840 That's awesome. All right. 957 00:56:53,840 --> 00:56:56,840 So my final question is, I guess now winning your first national 958 00:56:56,840 --> 00:57:04,480 title on the track at 31, is there something that you wish 959 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:10,400 you would have heard from like your 2526 year old version of 960 00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:12,760 you? Like who's like kind of banging 961 00:57:12,760 --> 00:57:18,000 his head on like being so close and like what? 962 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,760 What is it that you think you have the maturity and experience 963 00:57:21,760 --> 00:57:25,440 now that you wish your, you know, previous version of 964 00:57:25,440 --> 00:57:27,160 yourself would have would have heard? 965 00:57:27,840 --> 00:57:32,600 I think the biggest thing is like appreciate the the progress 966 00:57:32,600 --> 00:57:37,840 for what it is. Like I, I, you know, I only got 967 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:40,720 good at the end of my college, like I was only good enough to 968 00:57:40,760 --> 00:57:44,320 GoPro at in my fifth year. Like if I hadn't taken a fifth 969 00:57:44,320 --> 00:57:46,160 year, I wouldn't have even been a professional athlete. 970 00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:51,560 So like, you know, I and then I was injured straight away as a 971 00:57:51,560 --> 00:57:54,080 pro. So I feel like even getting to 972 00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:59,000 the start line at USA is like in the fall of 2018, that seemed 973 00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:03,760 like that might never happen. Like, and I think it's not a 974 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,880 guarantee that I could have won. That's also not a guarantee that 975 00:58:07,880 --> 00:58:10,200 I could have had those close calls and been competitive. 976 00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:12,640 So I feel like having a little bit more. 977 00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:15,480 I mean, I think overall I still did that, which is why I'm still 978 00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:17,960 here. But I think I would beat myself 979 00:58:17,960 --> 00:58:22,000 up a lot more about like disappointments when around that 980 00:58:22,000 --> 00:58:24,240 age. And I think just give yourself a 981 00:58:24,240 --> 00:58:27,640 little more grace about like, I think that's important for 982 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:32,040 anyone like if, if you if you really need to like appreciate 983 00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:37,640 the positives of any race and any experience if you want to 984 00:58:37,640 --> 00:58:42,840 continue growth in the sport. I think that's the biggest thing 985 00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:46,400 that I've learned to do. And like, you know, this past 986 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:50,400 weekend was a pretty good microcosm example of like have 987 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,240 having to do that within 24 hours. 988 00:58:52,240 --> 00:58:55,960 And you know, over 8 years as a pro athlete, I've learned to do 989 00:58:55,960 --> 00:58:58,880 that a lot better. And then in the span of one day, 990 00:58:58,880 --> 00:59:04,520 it was a very relevant skill. Well done, well said. 991 00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:08,000 And I think it also just hit me because I went back and I just 992 00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,520 like clicked on your your 5th year. 993 00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,240 This this kind of ties together so many things that have been 994 00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:17,280 kind of in the news within the Track World within like the last 995 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,840 month or so. So it's a variety of different 996 00:59:19,840 --> 00:59:21,640 things. It's you after winning your 997 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,400 national title, it's converted mile times because I'm pretty 998 00:59:25,400 --> 00:59:30,520 sure what that 359 from Winston Salem in 2018 is what got you to 999 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:33,520 the national championships. And so nowadays they wouldn't 1000 00:59:33,520 --> 00:59:37,520 let that in. And then two, you go on to the 1001 00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,560 OR the three, you go on to the NCA championships and you finish 1002 00:59:40,560 --> 00:59:44,880 second, not only to to Josh Kerr, who just broke the mile 1003 00:59:44,880 --> 00:59:47,560 world record. So it's like funny how I just 1004 00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:50,720 like scrolled back to 2018 and I'm like, wait, all those things 1005 00:59:50,720 --> 00:59:54,520 that have been relevant in the last couple weeks also, you 1006 00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,240 know, were a thing back in 2018. So super funny. 1007 00:59:58,120 --> 01:00:01,680 Yeah. It's, it's been a long, a long 1008 01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,040 process, Yeah. Yeah. 1009 01:00:04,520 --> 01:00:06,920 Well, Vince, I appreciate you taking the time for this and 1010 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:09,880 looking forward to seeing you back on the circuit, you know, 1011 01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:14,560 next month and hoping for for. Big things come, you know, the 1012 01:00:15,160 --> 01:00:17,480 potentially the Diamond League final World Ultimate 1013 01:00:17,480 --> 01:00:19,920 Championships and then of course world road running champs. 1014 01:00:20,880 --> 01:00:22,880 Thank you so much, Chris. I appreciate you having me. 1015 01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:23,920 This is awesome. Thank you. 1016 01:00:25,920 --> 01:00:27,520 Alright, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1017 01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:30,520 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1018 01:00:30,520 --> 01:00:33,240 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1019 01:00:33,720 --> 01:00:36,120 A big thanks to. Our producer Jasmine Fair, and 1020 01:00:36,120 --> 01:00:38,520 to everyone behind the scenes who helps make the Citius Mag 1021 01:00:38,520 --> 01:00:41,080 podcast happen. If you enjoyed today's episode, 1022 01:00:41,080 --> 01:00:42,240 a quick. Five Star Review on Apple 1023 01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,600 Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we read every 1024 01:00:46,600 --> 01:00:47,800 single one. You can find 1025 01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,960 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow. 1026 01:00:50,960 --> 01:00:53,200 Along across all of Sidious Mag social channels. 1027 01:00:53,400 --> 01:00:55,480 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.