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I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,560 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,080 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,320 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,360 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,160 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 41 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,080 anywhere. Else. 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,680 So let's get into it, because we love track and field. 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,960 My guest for today's episode is Danny Mackey, the head coach of 44 00:02:27,960 --> 00:02:30,880 the Brooks Beast Track Club. Almost two weeks before we 45 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:35,880 recorded this, Josh Kerr ran 342.66 at the London Diamond 46 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:40,160 League and took 47 hundredths of a second off of Hesham El 47 00:02:40,160 --> 00:02:43,520 Garouge's mile world record. It was a mark that had been on 48 00:02:43,520 --> 00:02:47,320 the books for 27 years. Danny is the guy who wrote the 49 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,640 training for it. He's been coaching Josh for 50 00:02:49,640 --> 00:02:52,600 eight years now, and this year he's also got Brandon Miller 51 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:56,160 running 142 to win the London Diamond League 870 minutes 52 00:02:56,160 --> 00:03:00,040 before Josh's race. It was just an epic day for the 53 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:01,840 Brooks Beasts and we're going to get into it. 54 00:03:02,240 --> 00:03:05,720 So this one's a coach's eye reconstruction of how a world 55 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,440 record actually comes to be. We go back to the workouts in 56 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:13,800 Albuquerque in 2024 when Danny first told Josh that he thought 57 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:17,120 the record was his. We get into the PowerPoint pitch 58 00:03:17,120 --> 00:03:21,240 that Josh made to Brooks. Danny walks us through how he 59 00:03:21,240 --> 00:03:24,040 writes training. We talk about the 90 minute 60 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:28,080 whiteboard meeting where a few grown men argued over tenths of 61 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,120 a second for pacing. We get into what Danny was 62 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:35,200 thinking trackside with 350 meters to go and how this is 63 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,320 transcended beyond the running community. 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:40,400 The best part, in my opinion, comes toward the end when he 65 00:03:40,400 --> 00:03:43,960 reveals who all of this was for. We heard Josh's answer in our 66 00:03:43,960 --> 00:03:47,520 interview last week when he talked about, you know, doing 67 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:49,680 all of this for the 8 year old version of himself. 68 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:54,360 So now we get Danny's answer. We last had Danny on in 2023 69 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,000 after the World Championships when Josh won the gold medal in 70 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,000 the 1500 and so it was only fitting that we got him back on 71 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:01,920 after another momentous occasion. 72 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:05,520 I really enjoyed this one. So without further ado, welcome 73 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:20,079 back coach Danny Mackey. And now I welcome on. 74 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:24,120 Brooks Beast coach Danny Mackie. Danny, I guess like it's been. 75 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:26,680 What now? Two weeks and it feels like 76 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,960 everyone is still at in some way, shape or form talking about 77 00:04:30,960 --> 00:04:35,040 that mile world record. We were at a restaurant not that 78 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,200 long ago and our waiter came up to us and like found out that we 79 00:04:39,200 --> 00:04:41,600 were runners and like, it was me, Mac Kyle. 80 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:46,120 And the first thing he brought up was that he's like, oh, I 81 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:48,360 just saw the guy broke the mile world record. 82 00:04:48,360 --> 00:04:51,960 And so it's kind of crazy how this thing has transcended just, 83 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,160 you know, outside of the track bubble, which we're kind of used 84 00:04:55,160 --> 00:04:57,400 to, but did. There was just something that 85 00:04:57,400 --> 00:04:59,760 felt different about this one. So for you, I guess like how's 86 00:04:59,760 --> 00:05:03,960 that been where I'm sure every day you're seeing people, you're 87 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:07,960 getting the Congrats, but also like, I'm sure it it, it's 88 00:05:07,960 --> 00:05:10,200 popped up in in surprising ways too. 89 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:14,040 Yeah, it's, it is interesting 'cause it was a little bit of a 90 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:18,600 whirlwind for me because I had to get back to the States for 91 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:22,560 USA is like, right, You know? So I hung out with Josh on 92 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,080 Sunday and then got a run in Monday and then we flew out to 93 00:05:27,080 --> 00:05:29,720 New York. So it's kind of like one thing 94 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,000 after another. But it's funny that you say that 95 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:35,880 cause like with your at the restaurant, 'cause I, I was just 96 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:40,280 at jujitsu before this podcast and I've been traveling so much. 97 00:05:40,280 --> 00:05:43,720 So I haven't seen a lot of the guys in like 2 1/2 months. 98 00:05:44,280 --> 00:05:47,360 And I've been going to this gym for 3 1/2 years. 99 00:05:47,840 --> 00:05:51,440 They, they know I coach runners, but I think they think I coach 100 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:57,560 like you and me, you know? And so, so when I walked in, one 101 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,520 of the guys is like, he goes, Congrats on the world record. 102 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,560 He's like, that's insane. And another guy goes, wait a 103 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:07,600 minute, that popped up on my social media. 104 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:11,240 I didn't know that. Like he he's like lives in 105 00:06:11,240 --> 00:06:12,920 Seattle in the US and stuff like that. 106 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:15,680 And he's in Albuquerque And another guy goes, wait a minute, 107 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,200 you coach that guy like he's like, I thought he's like. 108 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:21,680 And then another guy told me about how he was at his P TS 109 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:24,840 clinic, 'cause he hurt his shoulder and the clinician was 110 00:06:24,840 --> 00:06:27,600 telling him about the world record in a mile. 111 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:33,320 And he he was like, yeah, popped up on my 'cause he follows me on 112 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:35,360 social media. He's like, it popped up on your 113 00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:36,880 social media. I just thought that you were 114 00:06:36,880 --> 00:06:39,720 like a fan of the sport. And then when I was checking 115 00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,080 out, he's like, I looked and I said, wait a minute. 116 00:06:42,080 --> 00:06:44,000 He goes this guy that I've been like training with for three 117 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:46,440 years, like coaches, this guy had no idea. 118 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:52,800 So I, I think if it, if it goes to your waiter and this like 50 119 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,000 year old guy who has three kids, his black belt in jiu jitsu, I 120 00:06:56,000 --> 00:06:59,080 think the world record has like it's, you know, it's transcended 121 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,640 sport. So I, I, you know, I asked Josh 122 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:06,720 this question too when we were hanging out on Sunday. 123 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,560 I said this feels bigger than the 2023 win. 124 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,200 He goes, yeah, it does. So it's definitely, definitely 125 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:16,360 different for sure. We're going to bounce around, 126 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,000 I'm sure, just sort of like in the chronology of how everything 127 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,560 happened. But there's one interesting 128 00:07:22,560 --> 00:07:25,960 thing that, you know, obviously Josh ends up making his 129 00:07:25,960 --> 00:07:29,880 PowerPoint presentation and makes the pitch to Brooks and 130 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:33,160 they they back him. But even going back a couple 131 00:07:33,160 --> 00:07:36,920 years, I think you'd said that you believe that he was in world 132 00:07:36,920 --> 00:07:40,120 record shape and floated the idea of like, I think you could 133 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:44,160 break the mile world record as early as what, two years ago in, 134 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:46,960 in 2024. I guess what did you, what made 135 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,760 you say it back then? And then what did what did Josh 136 00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:52,320 say back in that moment? Hard to remember. 137 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:59,600 I think we were in Albuquerque and he's getting ready for Paris 138 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:07,720 and he did 8 by 4 hundreds and it's like a we actually didn't 139 00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,560 do it this year, which is the first year we haven't done it. 140 00:08:10,560 --> 00:08:13,320 But yeah, it's kind of one of the staples. 141 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:17,240 And so he ran it really well and it, it just crossed my mind. 142 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:18,840 I was like, I think he can get the world record. 143 00:08:18,840 --> 00:08:22,440 And so I just said it to him and he goes, he's, I, I don't 144 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,720 remember exactly what Josh said, but he's probably, he probably 145 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:28,000 said, yeah, probably. And then when we, when he was 146 00:08:28,000 --> 00:08:32,320 getting ready for Tokyo last year, he was definitely in 147 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:34,200 better shape than he was in Paris. 148 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:40,679 And we were talking about it a little bit more like concretely, 149 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,240 'cause this year there was no outdoor champs. 150 00:08:43,240 --> 00:08:46,080 So, you know, like him and I were just like, it's just like 151 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,960 after workout sometimes in those training camps too, when it's a 152 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,520 smaller group getting ready for worlds, like last year in Tokyo, 153 00:08:53,520 --> 00:08:55,880 like I'll jog with him on the cooldown sometimes. 154 00:08:55,880 --> 00:08:58,800 And so just one of those things like Julian was there and we're 155 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,280 just talking about it. And I was like, you know, 'cause 156 00:09:01,280 --> 00:09:04,280 he ran this really incredible temple run. 157 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:07,960 And I know everybody can RIP a temple run, but I'm pretty, I 158 00:09:07,960 --> 00:09:10,680 police those like pretty rigorously in terms of how hard 159 00:09:10,680 --> 00:09:14,600 they go. And so Josh was well within I'm 160 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,200 a comfortable zone and he ran it super fast and he did some one 161 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,680 50s after very fast. And like 4 days later he did a 162 00:09:22,680 --> 00:09:27,760 1K time trial and like it was crazy. 163 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:29,320 And so I just never seen anything like that. 164 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:31,560 And so I brought it up again and he was like, yeah, definitely. 165 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:36,040 So, and then from that point forward, it was, you know, like 166 00:09:36,040 --> 00:09:41,320 he gets hurt in Tokyo and then soon after that, it's like when 167 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,760 he in Seattle, he pitched the idea felt like the powerful 168 00:09:46,760 --> 00:09:50,520 presentation in Brooks. So the only debate that him and 169 00:09:50,520 --> 00:09:58,400 I had was where to do it. So I was preferring like a 170 00:09:58,400 --> 00:10:01,200 Monaco or Southern California situation because of the 171 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,040 weather. But he really wanted to go to 172 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,960 London because he's from the UK and and it's the biggest Diamond 173 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:11,840 League stadium wise. And so he wanted that moment and 174 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,600 but it was literally like, you know, we we've met about it and 175 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,760 he's, you know, he's the one that's got to do it. 176 00:10:17,760 --> 00:10:19,480 So if he's excited to do it and London, let's do it. 177 00:10:19,480 --> 00:10:21,960 I mean, I love that meat. So it wasn't like, yeah, they 178 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:23,640 convinced me of that. I was just worried about the 179 00:10:23,640 --> 00:10:25,560 weather. So yeah. 180 00:10:25,560 --> 00:10:27,400 Yeah. In retrospect and in hindsight, 181 00:10:27,400 --> 00:10:31,240 I feel like that part of it ends up being so crucial and just 182 00:10:31,240 --> 00:10:34,920 sort of like what made this thing as epic and and monumental 183 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:38,000 to the rest of the world. I think because had it been, you 184 00:10:38,000 --> 00:10:43,000 know, hidden on a, you know, stream somewhere and just at, 185 00:10:43,040 --> 00:10:45,800 you know, one of the old reliable high school tracks out 186 00:10:45,800 --> 00:10:48,120 in California, I don't necessarily know if it would 187 00:10:48,120 --> 00:10:52,560 have, you know, permeated as much, but it did end up working 188 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,680 out. When you saw the first draft or 189 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:58,600 whatever it is of the deck, which he says he's going to 190 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:01,520 release at some point. What did you think? 191 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:07,920 It's just classic Josh, like he takes big picture, big goals. 192 00:11:10,080 --> 00:11:14,400 Got me really excited. I was just like when he was 193 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:16,440 pitching it to Brooks, I was just smiling the whole time. 194 00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:19,400 And so 'cause he was asking for like these really grandiose 195 00:11:19,400 --> 00:11:22,520 things and it and it's a big, it's a massive goal. 196 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,920 And so and he was like, I'm going to call my shot after I 197 00:11:25,920 --> 00:11:29,560 went world indoors too. And so he's just like calling 198 00:11:29,560 --> 00:11:32,080 all these shots left and right and I was like in my head, I'm 199 00:11:32,080 --> 00:11:37,280 more of a realist. So I was like, this is going to 200 00:11:37,280 --> 00:11:41,440 be hard, but I love it. So yeah, I was excited when he 201 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,080 pitched it. When you had those moments and 202 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,080 you told Josh, like, I think you could break the world record. 203 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:49,240 I mean, he's got enough of a track record at these 204 00:11:49,240 --> 00:11:51,400 championships. And, you know, I guess like, 205 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,200 with it being in 2024 and in 2025 that those remarks have 206 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:58,000 been made beforehand. Like he doesn't seem like the 207 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:01,880 athlete who needs that kind of just sort of like boost from a 208 00:12:01,880 --> 00:12:04,400 comment like that going into to the competition. 209 00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,520 So like, what is it do you think that he gets? 210 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:11,280 Is it just like a affirmation that is just from the workouts 211 00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:14,040 or like what what does that do you think for for someone like 212 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:15,720 him? And in the past, I guess, like 213 00:12:15,720 --> 00:12:20,840 thinking back to, I don't know, Nick Simmons in 2015, prior to a 214 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:24,040 championship like that, like had that been a pattern that you've 215 00:12:24,040 --> 00:12:26,560 done with with athletes at that level before? 216 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:32,040 Oh, no. If if you asked, that is the 217 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:33,880 thing I need to have. That's the thing I need to work 218 00:12:33,880 --> 00:12:36,040 on. It's a 14 1/2 year work in 219 00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:41,640 progress. I generally understate things. 220 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:49,840 And so I think Josh would say if me saying that is like about as 221 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,840 meaningful as it comes because I don't, I just don't, yeah, I 222 00:12:54,840 --> 00:12:57,160 don't like I'm not good at pumping people up sometimes. 223 00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:01,280 But as, as I feel like listen to like athletes feedback over the 224 00:13:01,280 --> 00:13:04,720 years, it's like I do have these thoughts about them and these 225 00:13:04,720 --> 00:13:09,840 thoughts of Josh or Nick where I see these, these these things 226 00:13:09,840 --> 00:13:13,240 that they do or their mentality. And I'm just like, man, they're 227 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,160 gonna just kick ass. Like they're ready to go. 228 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,520 And so, you know, over the years of doing this more like I've 229 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:24,160 allowed myself to feel that kind of like raw competitiveness and 230 00:13:24,160 --> 00:13:28,000 try to project the confidence that I have in them onto them. 231 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:33,600 And, you know, for somebody like Josh, yeah, like, I think it, 232 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,600 you'd have to ask him, but he said some things to me that have 233 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:40,840 been in a really nice, really nice way, like jarring. 234 00:13:40,840 --> 00:13:43,400 Because like a lot of times I just think that when I say the 235 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,920 athletes are like, whatever, Danny's just kind of talking and 236 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,840 and there's some things that I'm like, oh, he like, listen to me 237 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:54,680 there, you know? So, yeah, I think people like 238 00:13:54,680 --> 00:13:59,280 him, people like Nick Simmons that I've been fortunate enough 239 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,040 to work with, they bring that like excitement out where I 240 00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:06,000 think of like for me, I just love competition. 241 00:14:06,120 --> 00:14:10,160 And so if I'm feeling in that moment, I feel like I need to 242 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,000 say something like I'm I am more confident now than I used to be 243 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,120 to say that to them. Yeah. 244 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,640 Nick 2015 it was is a little different. 245 00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:23,200 I was, you know, 2 1/2 years into my pro coaching experience 246 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,400 at that point he was already really successful. 247 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:30,120 And so there was a lot like of like observing and being a 248 00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,960 sponge in terms of how he did things. 249 00:14:33,560 --> 00:14:38,200 And you know, I was confident to get him like physically ready to 250 00:14:38,200 --> 00:14:41,480 compete at the Olympic trials, US championships and stuff like 251 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,600 that. But the psychology stuff is more 252 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,120 that I've like, I learned a lot from Nick in that way because 253 00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,480 Nick was such a gamer. Like, he knew how to show up in 254 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,200 those big moments. And so, yeah. 255 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,600 Over the last couple years, one of the coolest things to see 256 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:57,880 with Josh is just obviously like how professionalized I guess 257 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:01,200 he's come, he's becoming just sort of building the team around 258 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,360 him. So if I think of Josh as a 259 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:07,040 company, right, like as the CEO and like you're, you're right up 260 00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,880 there as well in the C-Suite and you probably, you know, work in 261 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:14,520 tandem with, with Julian. But I guess like how much other, 262 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,640 how closely are you working with all these other various 263 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:19,760 different parts? Josh is at the core of it where 264 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:23,120 he's touching, you know, everyone from the nutritionist 265 00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:25,920 to, you know, his mom being as fizzy and all that stuff. 266 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,800 But then I guess like for you, like is it, you know, the, it's 267 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,400 obviously the training, but then what other parts of it do you 268 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:39,120 interact most closely with? So maybe like 12 years ago, I 269 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:45,160 was talking to Dan Path and I really like how him and Stu 270 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,280 McMillan, you know, they how they organize their 271 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:49,600 relationships with their athletes. 272 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:53,800 And so Dan had like an athlete triad and he said the athlete's 273 00:15:53,800 --> 00:15:56,400 always there and he said the coach is always there. 274 00:15:56,720 --> 00:16:00,760 And then this other part is physio, nutritionist, sports 275 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:03,240 psych, strength conditioning trainer. 276 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:07,560 Who else were the agent beat director? 277 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,880 So yeah, like I am all those people you listed, like I'm the 278 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:17,520 only one I don't talk to all the time is Jamil. 279 00:16:17,520 --> 00:16:20,120 But I talked to Doctor Kyle a lot who talks to Jamil. 280 00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:23,080 So but I see Jamil all the time and he's fantastic. 281 00:16:23,080 --> 00:16:25,320 It's just I don't need to like Kyle manages anymore. 282 00:16:25,320 --> 00:16:30,200 But I'm always talking about like Jose the really the the 283 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,160 sports psychologist that Josh works like him and I meet 284 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,720 regularly. We talk all the time. 285 00:16:36,680 --> 00:16:38,440 Josh's mom and I talk all the time. 286 00:16:40,320 --> 00:16:43,320 The strength conditioning coach that we sort of working with a 287 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:46,280 couple years ago work really, really closely together. 288 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,560 And I think that's one of the straw. 289 00:16:47,560 --> 00:16:50,360 And then Julian and I are like, you know, locked up with stuff 290 00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,000 too. So. 291 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,960 And then, yeah, Ray and then Spencer from the ME director 292 00:16:54,960 --> 00:16:58,000 from London worked really closely with them. 293 00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,840 So a lot of it like from a coaching standpoint is for, you 294 00:17:01,840 --> 00:17:05,920 know, in situations like this, it's like the athlete has so 295 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,240 much that they need to deal with from just like getting 296 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,760 physically prepared and mentally prepared to go to do what he did 297 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,880 where, you know, I'm, I'm a filter for a lot of things and 298 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:20,040 just like try to offload it and then like, you know, be a part 299 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:22,319 of the athlete triad where I'm, I'm helping manage it and 300 00:17:22,319 --> 00:17:23,520 navigate it. I think that's part of the 301 00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:26,359 coach's job is to like wear a couple a lot of different hats. 302 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:29,760 For a task like this, right, going after the mile world 303 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,720 record, did it feel like it was heightened pressure just cause 304 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,480 Josh was calling a shot so far, so early? 305 00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:40,000 Like everyone, everyone's role within this, Like, you know, I, 306 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:43,160 I guess like, maybe because of the success of, of how 307 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,240 everything panned out. Like I hadn't heard of Jose as 308 00:17:45,240 --> 00:17:48,080 much as I did like the last couple weeks. 309 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,440 And I'm fascinated by just sort of like his approach and his 310 00:17:51,440 --> 00:17:52,800 job. And I hadn't realized that like 311 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,000 Josh has been working with him for for as long as he has. 312 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,280 So it's like with everyone did, I guess like did did everyone 313 00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:01,520 feel like just sort of like they had to step up in their own role 314 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,560 for for Josh in this? I think one of the nice things 315 00:18:05,560 --> 00:18:16,760 about the staff is we'd had a number of kind of like 316 00:18:17,360 --> 00:18:19,880 opportunities to develop a road map in a system. 317 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:28,080 So not, not really, I think like where, yeah, because we've kind 318 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,000 of done it before, like the Olympics are a big deal, world 319 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,800 champions are a big deal. This is a big deal. 320 00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:34,400 It's all like, I think on that, like we were just we started 321 00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:36,560 this podcast off. I think this is the biggest deal 322 00:18:36,560 --> 00:18:38,720 so far. But you're still trying to be 323 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:41,080 the best in the world or Josh is still trying to be the best in 324 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,600 the world in those moments. So there's things that we 325 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,760 learned over the last, you know, I've worked with Josh for eight 326 00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:50,960 years. So I've evolved like for sure, 327 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:54,000 but not really. The the biggest thing was the 328 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,720 difference in this go around. Wasn't that like we needed to 329 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,600 step up more? It was, it was like the media 330 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,480 part was like pretty tricky. Yeah. 331 00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:07,480 Like I even going in when he won worlds in 24, getting ready for 332 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:11,400 Paris, sorry, when he won worlds in 23 and 24, getting ready for 333 00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:15,400 Olympics in 24. It wasn't like this like, 'cause 334 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,640 other thing too is Brooks was was really moving fast to 335 00:19:18,640 --> 00:19:21,280 develop a spike for him. So there was a lot of things 336 00:19:21,280 --> 00:19:25,400 from like a testing point of view that we had not done that 337 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:31,800 intensely. Like after Josh's first race in 338 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:37,960 UCLA, the sound running mate, we flew the next day to Denver to 339 00:19:37,960 --> 00:19:42,040 go to Boulder to do testing and then then went down to 340 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:44,880 Albuquerque. And then, you know, like little 341 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:46,560 stuff like that. And that doesn't sound like a 342 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:49,520 big deal, but when you're like in the heat of it and like every 343 00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,120 little thing that he does can like hurt him or help him. 344 00:19:52,720 --> 00:19:54,000 Just some managing that was tough. 345 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,120 And then there was probably 5 weeks straight where we had a 346 00:19:57,120 --> 00:20:00,160 camera at practice every day. It was insane. 347 00:20:00,160 --> 00:20:01,920 I'm not, you know, like I'm just not used to that. 348 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:05,200 So not that kind of like thing. And then when you get to the 349 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,960 meet, everybody is talking to you about it. 350 00:20:08,520 --> 00:20:12,360 You know, it's not like like these the other meets there's. 351 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:14,840 What is how many events are there? 352 00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:17,000 There's like, you know, so there's over 30 Olympic 353 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:18,800 champions right between the both genders. 354 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:21,880 And so it a lot of people win the Olympics. 355 00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:23,920 Amazing accomplishment. Maybe it's bigger. 356 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,160 I think Josh would probably rather have an Olympic title 357 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:29,400 than this world record. But this was like one thing 358 00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,600 happening and he like talked about it four months in advance. 359 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:36,000 So there's a lot more, lot more eyes than than normal because 360 00:20:36,120 --> 00:20:37,720 they weren't like spread out anywhere else. 361 00:20:39,520 --> 00:20:41,560 This episode of the CITIUS MAG podcast is brought to you by 362 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:43,880 Core. If you've ever tried to heat 363 00:20:43,880 --> 00:20:47,200 train, you know the problem. 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That's CITIUS 10 at checkout 399 00:22:40,640 --> 00:22:43,760 when you visit corebodytemp.com. Train in the heat. 400 00:22:44,360 --> 00:22:48,960 Don't overcook it. So for you, I guess like writing 401 00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:52,240 out the training for this, like it's obviously not something 402 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:55,800 that it's like I wrote this out, you know, here's 16 weeks and 403 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:57,840 what it looks like. How did you go about just sort 404 00:22:57,840 --> 00:22:59,960 of structuring this thing and like how often would you go back 405 00:22:59,960 --> 00:23:03,760 and review things? So I work backwards from. 406 00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:07,640 No, no one's asked me this question. 407 00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:17,240 I work backwards from the day and then I try to think of 408 00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:23,920 performance indicators that are specific to Josh, specific to 409 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:28,680 what he's trying to do and then have these checkpoints along the 410 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,600 way, these kind of gates that we walk through. 411 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:37,480 And so I had a general plan in my head and I've, I've adjusted 412 00:23:37,480 --> 00:23:42,560 this over the years where, you know, it's a little scary 413 00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:48,760 because a lot of it's in my head, but I, so I have like a 414 00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,800 general plan and then I wait to see how. 415 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:54,360 And then he, he gets everybody else on the team gets us too on 416 00:23:54,360 --> 00:23:58,680 Sunday or Monday. I ride out eight days ahead. 417 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,800 So everybody on the team, all 18 beasts get their training for, 418 00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:06,160 you know, 8 days. The reason why I sent 7 is 419 00:24:06,160 --> 00:24:08,480 because, you know, if I'm flying after a meet or something like 420 00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:10,280 that, like it just buys me a day. 421 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:14,840 And so, and then, so then I see what he did and what I would see 422 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:18,600 what he'd do. And then I would have this kind 423 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,880 of like a general map. And then I would tweak it based 424 00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,640 on what his response was the week prior. 425 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:29,120 And then just start kind of like funneling in more specifically 426 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,400 to what I anticipated some of the stressors were. 427 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:35,280 And we had a couple like interesting. 428 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:37,760 Well, I had a couple interesting challenges from a coaching 429 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,080 standpoint. 1 is he had not run a mile since the semifinals. 430 00:24:43,280 --> 00:24:45,600 Well, I guess he ran the finals in Tokyo, but he had to run a 431 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:48,160 hard mouse in the semifinals in Tokyo. 432 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,400 So that was like a long time ago. 433 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,000 And he did the 2 three KS and then he did 2 eights. 434 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,560 So he just not had to run a mile. 435 00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:03,480 And there's some metabolic things that happen when you get 436 00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:05,840 over about 90 seconds of duration. 437 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,200 And so I was a little worried about that. 438 00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:12,760 So, so I tried to like adjust things in training from a volume 439 00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:17,040 standpoint that he hadn't done before to like cover the bases 440 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,160 that I thought might need to be covered to run 55 second pace 441 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,200 for a mile. And then, you know, then it's 442 00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,360 like not getting him hurt. That's a problem too. 443 00:25:26,360 --> 00:25:29,480 And so, you know, like 2 weeks out, I had to really like 444 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:33,080 micromanage how fast he was running like 2 hundreds and one 445 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,200 50s because at that point, yeah, there's, there's something to 446 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:38,360 gain. But like if he strained 447 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:42,160 something and then he's a high responder to like threshold 448 00:25:42,160 --> 00:25:45,920 work. And so he was starting to get so 449 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:52,280 fit at the end where like I was like, you know, it'd be like 450 00:25:52,280 --> 00:25:55,400 based on like what he did on Sunday, I'm like on Tuesday, 451 00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:57,680 this is what we're going to do. Like I'd adjust the pace like 452 00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:02,680 that day. So yeah, it's, it's kind of hard 453 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,920 to articulate. Like I, I need to think about 454 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:12,240 how I, I know how I think about training and, but it's a little 455 00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:21,160 tricky to articulate because the other thing too, is I, this will 456 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:23,600 sound terrifying to Josh, but he did it, so it's fine. 457 00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:29,320 And he knows this like, I'll just make up a workout based on, 458 00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:31,680 you know, I, I've been doing this for a long time. 459 00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,520 I studied Physiology and bio mechanics in grad school. 460 00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:38,640 So I like kind of know, hope I know what I don't know, but like 461 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:42,360 I can like kind of visualize in my head like what he needs to do 462 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:45,600 and then write out a workout for that. 463 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,400 So there is a lot of training he did leading into London that 464 00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:51,400 he'd never done before. But I was like, well, this is 465 00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:54,400 what we need to do because this is what the 800 was like. 466 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:59,840 Like that 24, the 262 workout. I I wrote that literally on the 467 00:26:59,840 --> 00:27:03,040 plane ride back from LA because I watched the 8:00 and then 468 00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,920 there was some stuff I saw and I was like, OK, well, we need to 469 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:07,760 do this, this and this. And this is about how long that 470 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:09,560 would take to get that energy system triggered. 471 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,720 And OK, so this is what we're gonna do. 472 00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:13,000 Yeah. What's that? 473 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,400 What's that one testing that that was that was one that I 474 00:27:15,400 --> 00:27:18,000 think a lot of people watch and like that's where confidence 475 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,440 started to grow. But so the 262 workout, like 476 00:27:20,440 --> 00:27:24,480 what was that testing? Well, one of the things that I 477 00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:31,560 was concerned with was just the like the load of running that 478 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:37,120 fast for that long. And so there's a couple things 479 00:27:37,120 --> 00:27:40,640 that can break down, you know, and somebody for, you know, like 480 00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:45,440 3 1/2 minutes. And what, what I know from 481 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:47,880 Physiology is, you know, for doing a good view of 2 Max 482 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:50,840 stimulus, you know, you need to be about 30 seconds, which is 483 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:51,640 nice. It's convenient. 484 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:55,440 It's about 200. And then, you know, 9 minutes is 485 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:56,880 like a race, 8 minutes is like a race. 486 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:01,400 So it's too hard. So there is some some things 487 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:04,680 that happen and like around that 92nd duration interval, which is 488 00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:07,640 about a 600. So I felt like that was like 489 00:28:07,960 --> 00:28:13,480 just long enough, the minimal duration that we needed to hit 490 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:16,600 to trigger some of the lactate levels and and those things that 491 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,360 I wanted him to trigger. And the 200 before that was more 492 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:23,680 rhythm. So I wanted him to be used to 493 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,160 running about that pace. Then he started to go a little 494 00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:31,240 faster, which I was fine with. Six was more of like a VO2 Max 495 00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:35,960 interval. The two on the back end was 496 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,200 faster than race pace to work on running economy. 497 00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,560 The reason why I went with a six over like an 8 or AK was because 498 00:28:42,560 --> 00:28:44,840 he's at altitude. It's also hot in Albuquerque. 499 00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,720 The other thing is I, and I stole this from Renato Canova, 500 00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:52,000 the Italian coach is like, I look at training sometimes as 501 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:56,760 like area under the curve. And so what's a maximum amount 502 00:28:56,760 --> 00:29:02,240 of distance we can get at a certain pace and not have them 503 00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:06,000 like completely broken down. So he got 4K at work, whereas I 504 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:08,680 felt like we did an 8 or AK. The load would mean too much. 505 00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:10,680 Like he would have started to kind of break down a little bit 506 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:13,560 and then we maybe would have gotten 3K work, which which for 507 00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:18,520 some workouts it's totally fine. But, you know, for the speed 508 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:21,120 that he needed to hit for that kind of thing, I thought it was 509 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:25,640 better to get the 4K in and have shorter intervals in there. 510 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:32,400 You know, and from watching his mile, like, you know, I, I don't 511 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,520 know, there may be a couple changes I would make 'cause I, I 512 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,760 thought it's hard to know, 'cause the pacing was not as 513 00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:40,920 long as we would have liked. They got out a little fast and 514 00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:42,360 there was some crosswinds in there. 515 00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,160 But I, I thought he'd run like 41 low. 516 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,040 And so, you know, maybe I messed some things up. 517 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:53,480 I missed some things in there with that kind of like area, I 518 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,440 don't know, yeah. For I think you'd previously 519 00:29:56,440 --> 00:30:01,000 mentioned 600 repeats with it to like get him ready to this. 520 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,000 I think maybe as it got closer and just thinking about when the 521 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,800 pacer drops out, how he's going to be running alone for a good 522 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,840 chunk of time towards the end. I guess like when did, when did 523 00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:14,600 you start to write that into the the training anticipating I 524 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:18,320 guess you know what could happen with the Pacers. 525 00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:24,880 Yeah, so I was thinking Kidder was underestimating how hard 526 00:30:24,880 --> 00:30:27,480 it'd be because he's around 1:44. 527 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,240 Yeah. So you would think like 0150 is 528 00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:34,280 no problem, but when you're trying to run 5555 leading the 529 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:37,280 whole way, it's very hard. I, I don't know that because 530 00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:41,080 I've never done it, but like, you know, I was looking, I just, 531 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:44,040 I just thought that that'd be harder than he thought. 532 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,280 So I needed a little bit of like continuously plan if Kidder 533 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:54,800 didn't go OK, which he didn't. And then Chapel, the guy that 534 00:30:54,800 --> 00:30:58,440 was originally supposed to be right behind Kidder, I was like, 535 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:02,840 well, he'll go 11 Hunter. But then he like didn't he 536 00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,600 didn't. There was like a little he 537 00:31:04,640 --> 00:31:05,640 nothing happened. Weird. 538 00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,640 He just like hadn't raced and I was like, oh shit, what if he 539 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,760 gets hurt? And so insurance. 540 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:15,080 So the last one of the last workouts he did, which we'd 541 00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:19,160 never done before, I had him do 6 Hunter's because I was like, 542 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:24,160 well, if shit hits the fan and the smile he needs to be able to 543 00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:27,240 know he can run a 1, you know, 121 or something like that. 544 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,240 And so it was a pretty easy workout. 545 00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,480 But before before the day before. 546 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,960 So the pacing, such app stuff happened Sunday, Monday of the 547 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,280 race week and we're figuring it out and we get Zan and last 548 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:44,600 minute, who's PR is 334. And so and I think his PR is 219 549 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:46,640 seven, which is slower than world record pace. 550 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,520 So Zan is gonna have to like game up super hard. 551 00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:53,920 Kidder is gonna have to game up. The weather looked a little 552 00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:55,640 breezy. And so I just told Josh on 553 00:31:55,640 --> 00:31:58,120 Friday, I was like, the reason why we did those six hundreds 554 00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:03,280 last Friday was so like, you know, that you can run that pace 555 00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:07,080 when you're really worn down. So you might have to take over, 556 00:32:07,440 --> 00:32:12,280 you know, completely at 600. So not too dissimilar to when he 557 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:15,440 ran pre, you know, when he took the lead from Jakob and drilled 558 00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,920 him at the end there. I guess I'm, I'm just kind of 559 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:20,760 going off of some of the YouTube stuff, but then the 1200 meter 560 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:26,080 time trial 242 at altitude. I mean it, it's funny to go from 561 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:29,640 my like with the social media side of things and on our side 562 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,040 with media, like we post just sort of he's going after this 563 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,400 and the comment section is seeded with doubt. 564 00:32:35,840 --> 00:32:39,560 Then we post the result of that 1200 and everyone's like, oh, 565 00:32:39,560 --> 00:32:41,000 he's going to smash it like this. 566 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:44,720 This confidence just kind of like really took over for you, I 567 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:48,560 guess like what was the actual purpose of that time trial? 568 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:53,800 Was it just, I mean confidence data or like what did you sort 569 00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,560 of make make of it? And at that point, just sort of 570 00:32:56,560 --> 00:32:59,080 getting closer and closer to to the actual race. 571 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,840 Kind of we, we've been doing time trials. 572 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:07,280 We've been using time trials since Doha 2019 for Josh. 573 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,440 You've done all different kinds. We've done ones where he goes 574 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,760 out at, you know, cuts down every 200 we've like close. 575 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,600 We've done ones where he just runs really hard. 576 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:21,800 We did AK last year before Tokyo for various reasons, but the 577 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,680 1200 was kind of back to the point of like he hadn't done a 578 00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:26,880 mile yet. So I wanted to try to get 579 00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:33,920 something longer to give him confidence to your point, you 580 00:33:33,920 --> 00:33:36,760 know, so it's, you know, two 40s getting somewhat long in 581 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:42,400 duration. And then I wanted to get an idea 582 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:47,520 of like, what if we needed to adjust anything pacing wise, we 583 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,920 could do that. The big thing was is like, I 584 00:33:49,920 --> 00:33:53,160 just wanted him to know that he could, he could hammer, you 585 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,440 know, coming off a 55 pace if he needed to. 586 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:57,040 Now I know he'd have another lap to do. 587 00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,480 But altitude, he did a long tempo run on Tuesday before he 588 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,360 did this. He's a little bit, he's a lot 589 00:34:02,360 --> 00:34:05,720 fresher for London. And so yeah, that went super 590 00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:09,560 well 'cause he, he closed in like 146, you know, the last 800 591 00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:12,400 of him closed in 52. So when I saw that I was like, 592 00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:13,920 OK, he's he's really ready to go. 593 00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:16,040 And you don't want to make it too hard either because then 594 00:34:16,040 --> 00:34:19,719 it's like they burned a match, you know, like, you know, 595 00:34:19,719 --> 00:34:23,239 getting close to race day. But when he did that on July 596 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:26,400 3rd, I was like, OK, I feel like we're pretty good. 597 00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:31,440 The fun part was then just sort of him talking to to me and Kyle 598 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,480 just sort of about like what happened after that, which was, 599 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:38,400 you know, he didn't think that it was like that hard. 600 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,639 And I think like his complaint was that it felt too easy. 601 00:34:40,639 --> 00:34:45,120 He takes that to Jose, who then just kind of with his role as 602 00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:47,679 like the, you know, mental performance coach was telling 603 00:34:47,679 --> 00:34:49,719 him like, we have what if it's easy? 604 00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,920 And so that's that's kind of been one of the things that 605 00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,480 we've just been clinging on to over the last couple days. 606 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:58,480 But for you after that, when Josh says like it felt too easy, 607 00:34:58,480 --> 00:35:00,680 is that a green flag, Yellow flag for you? 608 00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:02,520 Like what? What did What did you make of 609 00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,080 that? This won't be the best like 610 00:35:05,080 --> 00:35:09,600 that. He's fit, you know, So I I was, 611 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:12,560 you know, telling him good because the you got to do 612 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,920 another mile or 409 meters at that pace. 613 00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:18,560 So it's good that it feels easy right now. 614 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:27,000 But yeah, I wasn't like, we work so closely with being prepared 615 00:35:27,000 --> 00:35:29,280 for suffering and how hard things are. 616 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,040 So I wasn't worried about, I think it's maybe what you're 617 00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:33,840 getting at. Like, I wasn't worried about him 618 00:35:33,840 --> 00:35:35,520 feeling easy. And that which is this is the 619 00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:37,760 thing that I deal with with a lot of athletes I coach now 620 00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:41,720 they're getting fit and they're like, oh, well, I'm going to 621 00:35:41,720 --> 00:35:43,680 knock this race out of the park because that workout like, 622 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,160 didn't feel hard. And then Steve Magnus talks a 623 00:35:46,160 --> 00:35:48,000 lot about this, too. It lowers your expectation of 624 00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,480 pain. And then you get rattled in the 625 00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:51,800 race. You're like, oh, shit, this 626 00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,600 hurts. And you know, my, my, one of my 627 00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,040 jobs as a coach is to prepare them for, well, you're just 628 00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:01,320 going to run faster. Doesn't mean the pain's less, 629 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,080 you know. And so, you know, for Josh, we 630 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,320 work a lot on that. So I wasn't worried that that 631 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:12,920 going so well was going to like skew his like perception of how 632 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:16,920 difficult it was to run a mile. It just gave him a lot of 633 00:36:16,920 --> 00:36:20,880 confidence that he could come off 55 pace and have something 634 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:22,920 less left at the end, which which he did. 635 00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,640 You know, he didn't close like super fast, but it's last 100 636 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,320 meters too. I think it's hard to run, you 637 00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,120 know, 650 meters by herself at that pace. 638 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:36,840 Like I think she had somebody with you know, or put the wave 639 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:38,560 like a little faster. He probably had a little bit 640 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,120 more in there, you know, because he said he felt good at 1500. 641 00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:45,120 He's like, oh, I enjoyed the last 100 meters, he said. 642 00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:52,880 So that's not like, you know, if you watch him run Paris or when 643 00:36:52,880 --> 00:36:56,920 he got COVID in 2022, like he was in the herd shop in those 644 00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:59,040 races. You know, he was, he was running 645 00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,520 very hard at London. But it wasn't like, you know, 646 00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:05,560 you watch him after the race like he was celebrating. 647 00:37:05,560 --> 00:37:07,560 He felt good. It was super hard, but it was 648 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,240 like he felt good doing it. I promise we'll get to actual 649 00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,280 race day, but I'm just fascinated with like the the 650 00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:16,720 architecture of like everything, but with this whole training 651 00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:18,480 block. And this is one thing that I 652 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,800 think we were super curious to hear what Josh would would would 653 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:25,640 take away from it. But was there is there anything 654 00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:28,720 that is different about, you know, from from this training 655 00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:32,360 for this versus a world championship or an Olympics in 656 00:37:32,360 --> 00:37:35,240 the past that you're hoping, all right, maybe we do a little bit 657 00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:37,560 more of that next, next go around? 658 00:37:37,560 --> 00:37:42,080 Or is it just pretty different because for those championships 659 00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,240 you're training for rounds and all that kind of stuff, or like, 660 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,120 so like what what, what's one of one of the things that you would 661 00:37:47,120 --> 00:37:49,480 want to do more of that you've learned from this block? 662 00:37:50,360 --> 00:37:55,000 Yeah, it's not like there is a rhythm element that Jose and I 663 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:58,160 talked a lot about that was unique to this world record 664 00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:01,680 attempt in terms of like running this pace and just trying to 665 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:04,160 feel good running 55 second pace. 666 00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:08,880 That's a little different than, you know, what most global 667 00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:14,880 finals do other than like other than Paris and Paris and 668 00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:18,080 Budapest are fairly quick, you know, so those are pretty very 669 00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,120 fast, I would say for Paris, but not not that much. 670 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:26,400 Like I, I look at like from an architectural standpoint, like 671 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:30,120 building Josh into being robust and being able to handle chaos. 672 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:34,520 And so those fundamental things from like temple runs and being 673 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:39,520 being really mindful in the weight room and running a lot of 674 00:38:39,760 --> 00:38:43,160 lot of reps at at race pace, like none of those things would 675 00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,040 change. The only thing that I think, 676 00:38:47,760 --> 00:38:51,560 well, we, we adjusted some stuff on Sunday runs this go around 677 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:53,520 and it seemed to work pretty well. 678 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:59,600 So, you know, maybe we keep that in for, you know, for worlds in 679 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:02,080 the Olympics the next two years, but not, not too much will 680 00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:03,800 change there. Yeah. 681 00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:08,120 Josh confirmed, I guess, that he uses, you know, bicarb like 682 00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:11,760 everyone else does, Started taking it about like 18 months 683 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:14,680 ago, like wasn't using it at the Paris Olympics. 684 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,800 Like what is dialing in his bicarb protocol look like? 685 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,200 Because he'd already run 327 without it before, I guess. 686 00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,520 And then this time around, like how meticulous did you guys get 687 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:28,120 into sort of like dialing that in for him? 688 00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:33,680 Doctor Karl Fafenbach and I and him, he got in meticulous just 689 00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:35,440 so wouldn't like hurt him because to your point, he'd 690 00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:42,440 already run 327, you know, and he was he was in lane 2 for, you 691 00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:46,120 know, a a a pretty significant portion of that race. 692 00:39:46,120 --> 00:39:49,760 So, you know, it's like you don't he might not be a 693 00:39:49,760 --> 00:39:51,600 responder to it is what we think. 694 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:54,160 Yeah. So we have a dialed in so it 695 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:56,680 doesn't, like, mess up his stomach and he's not like, and 696 00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:58,960 GI issues out there, but that was a big thing. 697 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:01,480 So he would use it for some workouts just to make sure that 698 00:40:01,480 --> 00:40:04,680 the dosage and the timing was like, not a hindrance to him. 699 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,080 Yeah. Then when it came to like the 700 00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,000 spikes this time around, like what what were you looking for 701 00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:12,240 in terms of just sort of when Brooks team would come to 702 00:40:12,240 --> 00:40:15,080 practice and like work with him because these were one of one 703 00:40:15,080 --> 00:40:16,760 for Josh? Like what did you think like 704 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:21,200 over the last couple of years that this needed to be different 705 00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,920 to I guess like fit Josh? Spike stuff was really fun with 706 00:40:24,920 --> 00:40:32,160 Brooks, their product team and Carson and Danny and Jake were 707 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,000 super excited and fired up about it, which is like, and they're 708 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,760 really smart. So when you get some smart 709 00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,640 people that love the sport fired up and then Brooks was willing 710 00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,600 to throw so much resources into it. 711 00:40:43,880 --> 00:40:46,080 I'm I'm like my friends know this like I'm kind of a tech 712 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,720 nerd. And so I really, and I used to 713 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:50,960 work in footwear when I worked at Nike and Adidas and Puma, 714 00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,160 like I worked with athletes, but I worked on, you know, the 715 00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:57,480 innovation set of footwear. So I think you know, from a as 716 00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,640 being a coach, I, I appreciate how hard it is to do what the 717 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:04,600 footwear team was trying to do. So the thing I was looking for 718 00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:09,840 for Josh was like, you know, like he has a little bit of a 719 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:13,960 tendency to pronate a little bit and get some hot spots on his 720 00:41:13,960 --> 00:41:17,840 foot. So simply I just want him to 721 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,720 feel really comfortable in them. And then, you know, if the foam 722 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:29,760 would be used in a way specific to his mechanics that we could 723 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:34,480 see some sort of like change between sample one and sample 2 724 00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,880 even better. But like, you know, day of my 725 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:41,600 head is like like Julian had a what had extra spikes like 726 00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:43,840 standing with us, like while Josh, because we didn't know if 727 00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,280 a lace would break and he, you know, spike plates crack 728 00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:49,200 sometimes. So I'm thinking like worst case 729 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:51,800 scenario, but the product team is super confident. 730 00:41:52,320 --> 00:41:57,760 I I asked, I asked, we were worried about the pins being too 731 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:03,720 small and I asked Danny or and it was like, I like wasn't 732 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:05,800 speaking the same language. He goes, I was like, yeah, I'm a 733 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,520 little worried if it rains in London that the spikes. 734 00:42:08,600 --> 00:42:14,800 He goes, we've never had a problem with that, sorry. 735 00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:19,200 And then, and then at the after party at Brooks, he was like, 736 00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,560 you were so pessimistic. You were so -2 weeks ago I was 737 00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,240 like, I'm a coach, I have to worry about these things. 738 00:42:25,240 --> 00:42:30,000 But no a lot. Now a couple of the beasts are, 739 00:42:31,440 --> 00:42:34,120 you know, like, because they're making more sizes. 740 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,160 So I think the spikes are pretty awesome. 741 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:40,840 I put them on and did a couple. I put Josh's on after and like 742 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:44,800 strutted around a little bit. I I hurt my calf and earlier in 743 00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:47,120 the week and you just so I couldn't like open it up. 744 00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,080 Not that I can do that anymore, but they feel good, man. 745 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,120 Like, I think a lot of, I thought when I when I was in 746 00:42:54,680 --> 00:43:00,200 high school and Algar Rouge broke the record, and then when 747 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,640 I was racing in college, like I wanted the spikes that he had so 748 00:43:03,640 --> 00:43:08,000 bad and it was so cool that I could get them. 749 00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:12,920 And so I think that Brooks nailed these spikes. 750 00:43:12,920 --> 00:43:17,080 And I think a lot of athletes are just going to love racing in 751 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,000 them. I think they did such a good 752 00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:20,120 job. And I'm very critical. 753 00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:22,680 You can ask Danny Orr and and Carson at Brooks. 754 00:43:22,880 --> 00:43:25,480 So they they crushed it, man. Yeah, it was. 755 00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,160 It was really fun working with them a lot on that project. 756 00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,440 Two weeks out, you, you're, you know, pessimistic at times and 757 00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:34,800 and overthinking things as a coach. 758 00:43:34,800 --> 00:43:39,080 But I guess like go, is it 4 weeks before where Josh was 759 00:43:39,080 --> 00:43:43,920 telling me about the white board meeting and it was you, Brandon, 760 00:43:44,160 --> 00:43:48,120 Brandon, Julian, Drew Windle in Albuquerque, It's like 3 or 4 761 00:43:48,120 --> 00:43:50,480 weeks out. You guys are talking about 762 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,000 splits. What paint the picture for me. 763 00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,640 What's what's happening in that room? 764 00:43:55,640 --> 00:44:00,240 You have a lot of different personalities and it funny 765 00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:03,120 things that people care about that like the other person just 766 00:44:03,120 --> 00:44:07,200 doesn't think is important. And so Josh had all this stuff 767 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,000 written out already. So he had like all these other 768 00:44:10,000 --> 00:44:16,560 races each split what of those races and what he thought his 769 00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,640 best scenario was. And then scenario 2, scenario 3. 770 00:44:20,240 --> 00:44:22,760 And so, you know, it's like, OK, what does this mean? 771 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:24,720 Kidder's gonna go through? And so you have to keep in mind, 772 00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:31,840 I, I am, I feel like an idiot. Like I, I don't, I don't like 773 00:44:31,840 --> 00:44:34,160 rabbits. I don't like time trials. 774 00:44:34,600 --> 00:44:36,880 It's not a thing that like gets me like fired up. 775 00:44:36,880 --> 00:44:39,920 I love championship racing. And so, you know, this trend 776 00:44:39,920 --> 00:44:42,040 that's happened since I've had this job, you know, you have two 777 00:44:42,040 --> 00:44:43,800 Pacers and pace lights and all these things. 778 00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:48,840 And so, you know, it's not something that I meet directors 779 00:44:48,840 --> 00:44:51,000 probably, I don't know if they like me, but I think they like 780 00:44:51,000 --> 00:44:54,120 working with me is because they'll say here's the pacer, 781 00:44:54,120 --> 00:44:56,400 here's the pace. And I will say cool. 782 00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:58,880 And I tell the athletes this is what they're going to do. 783 00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:02,800 And half the time the Pacers mess up, so and the wavelets are 784 00:45:02,800 --> 00:45:07,640 just out there doing their thing, you know, And so, you 785 00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:09,520 know, so I had to kind of like control that part of me, 'cause 786 00:45:09,520 --> 00:45:11,920 this is really important. Like we have to get this dialed 787 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,200 in. So it was, it was like, it was 788 00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,520 interesting, 'cause you know, I'm a little bit more, let's see 789 00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:21,920 what Josh has to say. And Julian, and then, you know, 790 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,640 Kidder, Drew and I are, I think a similar personality type. 791 00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,760 So we're kind of like sitting back waiting for our opinions 792 00:45:28,320 --> 00:45:33,480 and then, yeah, but then it was kind of funny, 'cause I was 793 00:45:33,480 --> 00:45:39,080 like, you're not going to run any of these splits just so you 794 00:45:39,080 --> 00:45:44,840 know, like, and he kind of didn't. 795 00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:51,880 So and then, yeah, I, I made a joke about setting the 796 00:45:51,880 --> 00:45:56,800 screenshot with Spencer and for the wave heights. 797 00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,360 And so I was like, we don't know what we're doing. 798 00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:04,080 So we did this really big circle just to get back to where we 799 00:46:04,080 --> 00:46:06,320 started. Like just try to run even splits 800 00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,160 and don't go out too fast. So but yeah, it was it was like 801 00:46:12,160 --> 00:46:14,960 it just showed how dialed that we had to be. 802 00:46:15,720 --> 00:46:18,360 You know, Bram, who works for Wave Light was phenomenal, as 803 00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,240 well as Spencer in terms of like helping it because the big 804 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:27,200 helping us because the big thing for for Kidder was like he I was 805 00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:29,160 a little worried because I've been in London Stadium with how 806 00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:32,600 the sunlight hits things. And so you might not be able to 807 00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:35,400 see the light, the wave light running fast because he's 808 00:46:35,400 --> 00:46:37,400 running fast, you know, like 16 miles an hour. 809 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:42,120 So so we got in there Friday. Sure enough, he couldn't see 810 00:46:42,120 --> 00:46:44,360 him. We're like, OK, well, we know 811 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:50,600 you can see, you know, the, the, you know, the time at 201 812 00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,960 hundred 400. So just see that. 813 00:46:52,960 --> 00:46:54,960 And so he was kind of like, what do I do? 814 00:46:54,960 --> 00:46:57,880 I was like, just don't get out too fast. 815 00:46:58,000 --> 00:46:59,640 Like you won't be able to see the light. 816 00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,120 It's for the crowd really. And so, yeah, he had to, it was 817 00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:09,280 hard for him because he had to kind of like watch the, you 818 00:47:09,280 --> 00:47:11,760 know, the, the actual time. And he could, if he looked down, 819 00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:13,400 he'd see the light. But you're like looking ahead. 820 00:47:13,400 --> 00:47:15,760 He couldn't. So getting, getting that really 821 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,720 dialed for him so he could feel like a little bit comfortable. 822 00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,400 And then if Josh got into a situation where the white was 823 00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,320 getting away from him, like then we had like, you know, we talked 824 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:25,800 through the mental strategies for that. 825 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,560 So yeah, it was the whiteboard meeting was like 90 minutes 826 00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,200 long. It was very, we're talking 827 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:35,800 literally over tenths of a second. 828 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,280 And then we switched it like the week of like by by 2/10 of a 829 00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,080 second. So like I had to talk to Ray and 830 00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:43,480 Spencer. I was like, yeah, we wanted to 831 00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:48,040 go on 27 two instead 27 four. And Bram is super like he's like 832 00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:49,800 engineering man. So he's like got it. 833 00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:53,200 Like didn't question why we wanted to adjust 2 times. 834 00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:55,560 He's like, OK, we'll do it. You know, he's just like on 835 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,440 board with it with it. And, and, and that was more to 836 00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:02,360 make sure Kidder felt like he could like get out harder and 837 00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,320 get in front of the guys. But 'cause that was the other 838 00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:06,760 thing too, is like there's racers in there. 839 00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:07,960 You don't know what they're gonna do. 840 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,240 You know, there's like, and other guys that want to beat 841 00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:13,000 him. So yeah, the whiteboard meeting, 842 00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:14,400 I have a lot of pictures of the whiteboard. 843 00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,520 It was pure. It was very big. 844 00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,040 Josh is super proud of it. There's just numbers and cases 845 00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:28,320 everywhere. Then the cage door thing, Josh 846 00:48:28,520 --> 00:48:31,040 obviously I think brought that up where it's like everyone does 847 00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:33,400 their job. You shut the cage door now, then 848 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,800 it's on him. Where did where did that start? 849 00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,040 Or I guess when did you 2 start with that? 850 00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:42,960 So Albuquerque's an interesting community. 851 00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,440 Have you been there before? No, I, I, I've never been. 852 00:48:47,120 --> 00:48:52,640 Yeah, so it's like, it's really like, it's a very, I was 853 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,880 thinking about this cause of how good I felt when I got to 854 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:02,560 London, just me running like Albuquerque's like this really 855 00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,960 tough environment. Like the people are tough, the 856 00:49:05,960 --> 00:49:08,040 weather kicks your ass. It's at altitude. 857 00:49:08,920 --> 00:49:11,520 But The thing is about the people there is they're like, I 858 00:49:11,520 --> 00:49:13,800 go to jiu jitsu. They're they're like terrifying 859 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:15,400 human beings. They're all tatted up, tatted 860 00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:17,280 up, shaved head, cauliflower ears. 861 00:49:17,680 --> 00:49:18,880 They will destroy you on the math. 862 00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,520 But then they're like, hey, do you want to get coffee with me 863 00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:21,640 after? Like it's, you know, they're 864 00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:22,960 just really friendly and inviting. 865 00:49:23,480 --> 00:49:26,720 And so I feel like the cities, like the towns like that in 866 00:49:26,720 --> 00:49:30,040 Albuquerque, like it's beautiful, but if you mess with 867 00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,920 it too much, it will like make you suffer in athletic 868 00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:35,800 endeavors. And so and the other thing about 869 00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:39,640 Albuquerque is the MMA community is really big there because John 870 00:49:39,640 --> 00:49:44,680 Jones, Holly Holm, George, Saint Pierre, all these legendary UFC 871 00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:48,080 fighters train there. And so Greg Jackson's one of the 872 00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:53,000 head coaches for these major hubs for MMA and Josh a couple 873 00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:55,520 time I've had Greg talk to some of the athletes a couple time 874 00:49:55,520 --> 00:49:58,880 and Greg has an Octagon in his gym, so he locks the cage door. 875 00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:07,400 And so I think with Josh my because I love MMA and so and I 876 00:50:07,400 --> 00:50:09,560 think there's a lot of parallels between what fighters have to 877 00:50:09,560 --> 00:50:11,080 deal with and what track athletes deal with. 878 00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:14,280 So Josh and I and that resonates with Josh. 879 00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:16,720 So we talk a lot about that sport. 880 00:50:17,560 --> 00:50:26,120 And he, we were talking as we're walking to the tunnel and I said 881 00:50:26,120 --> 00:50:31,240 a couple things to him about the crowd, just to like, make sure, 882 00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:32,720 you know, his head was in a good place. 883 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,880 And then he goes, all right, lock the cage door behind me. 884 00:50:36,680 --> 00:50:39,000 And so like, I just, that was it. 885 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,200 And so then he, he said it again. 886 00:50:41,240 --> 00:50:44,680 So to you all. But yeah, that was the I, he 887 00:50:44,680 --> 00:50:46,280 just came, you know, he just came up with that. 888 00:50:46,280 --> 00:50:49,920 And I, I think it's 'cause I, I make him listen to me talk about 889 00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:56,360 fighting all the time, 'cause he'll come over like we all host 890 00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:59,400 UFC fight nights and stuff like that when there's like fun 891 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:01,680 cards. And so a lot of the team comes 892 00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:04,000 over for that, which is like surprising because I wouldn't 893 00:51:04,000 --> 00:51:06,800 think most of them would care, but he he always does. 894 00:51:07,520 --> 00:51:11,000 So I think he just likes that kind of like just raw 895 00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:13,600 competition. So I liked that analogy that he 896 00:51:13,600 --> 00:51:17,320 said, yeah. He wanted you on the track and 897 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:22,000 and you opted for like staying close by, I guess like in closer 898 00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,080 to stands, right, or like they had you in a in a separate 899 00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,040 place. Well, with with Miller's race, 900 00:51:28,800 --> 00:51:33,000 we were in like the bullpen for the coaches, Julian and I, and 901 00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:37,800 Julian was like, I think we can get over to where the high jump 902 00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,560 coaches coach. It's like right, right behind, 903 00:51:40,560 --> 00:51:42,960 like the digital screens that they have surrounding the track, 904 00:51:42,960 --> 00:51:45,800 you know, but he didn't want to like he didn't know if we could 905 00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:48,000 get in. So we didn't want to like go 906 00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:50,280 there and not be able to watch Brandon's race and like have 907 00:51:50,320 --> 00:51:53,760 Spencer like say you guys can't stand there, but Miller won. 908 00:51:53,760 --> 00:51:55,760 So we're like, OK, Spencer likes us now. 909 00:51:55,880 --> 00:52:01,040 So we're just going to do it. So we went up with, it was me 910 00:52:01,040 --> 00:52:06,200 and Dom, Josh, the videographer, Miller and Julian. 911 00:52:06,280 --> 00:52:07,960 And so were like, hey, can we go over there and start? 912 00:52:07,960 --> 00:52:09,680 Like, yeah, go there. So we were like, literally 913 00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:12,720 trackside. And London's has all the space 914 00:52:12,720 --> 00:52:15,560 from where those, like digital things are on the track in Lane 915 00:52:15,560 --> 00:52:19,000 8, Rick, surrounding Lane 8 to where the stadium seating is. 916 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:24,720 So yeah. So I was sitting there, like 917 00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,600 looking calm. Julian and Miller are like 918 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:30,960 bouncing around. Brad Ewer is right over here. 919 00:52:30,960 --> 00:52:33,320 Dom's kind of bouncing around. I'm just watching Josh like 920 00:52:33,760 --> 00:52:37,840 don't hit the rail, Don't like, don't break, don't like fall, 921 00:52:38,440 --> 00:52:40,440 you know, like thinking all these things don't happen. 922 00:52:41,000 --> 00:52:45,160 And then when he and then Yard sitting on him, like yard looks 923 00:52:45,160 --> 00:52:48,640 pretty good, like shit. And so then when you know, the 924 00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:50,920 pacer steps off and it's by himself, I'm like, OK, this is 925 00:52:50,920 --> 00:52:53,720 what we trained for. And then he started to roll. 926 00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:57,560 And then when he passed us at the 350 degree, 350 meters to 927 00:52:57,560 --> 00:53:01,840 go, I, I just watched him so much of the last 8 plus years. 928 00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,520 I was like, oh, he's going to do it. 929 00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:08,200 And then that's when I stood up. And then Miller, Julian and I 930 00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,640 were like little kids that like it was obnoxious. 931 00:53:10,640 --> 00:53:12,080 We're just running back and forth. 932 00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:15,800 Miller has like a 40 inch vert. There's this one video where he 933 00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:17,680 like, jumps over me to hug Julian. 934 00:53:18,240 --> 00:53:21,800 And so, yeah, so when he did it and then I think as we were 935 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,240 talking about, Josh came over to us and he's like, I think he was 936 00:53:24,240 --> 00:53:25,600 yelling at us to get on the track. 937 00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:28,920 And I was like, I don't want you to get in trouble. 938 00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:35,560 So I'm not going to do that. You come over here, you know, so 939 00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,920 'cause I, I'm like, I don't think coaches, can you do that? 940 00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:41,320 I don't know. I just didn't want to risk it. 941 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:42,880 So. But that was super fired up. 942 00:53:43,800 --> 00:53:47,440 So yeah. I mean, morning of and like as 943 00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:51,600 the meats progressing, you know, you have, you know, a high 944 00:53:51,600 --> 00:53:55,600 moment with with Brandon's race. But I guess like what, what, 945 00:53:56,080 --> 00:53:57,760 what what's happening with you internally? 946 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:01,240 Like is it nerves? Is it just like a lot of that 947 00:54:01,240 --> 00:54:03,440 excitement, like a combination of everything? 948 00:54:04,480 --> 00:54:10,640 Yeah, I like, so my daughter was like, she remarkably travelled, 949 00:54:10,640 --> 00:54:13,280 like really well, but she still got up early so she woke me up. 950 00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:19,720 And then my old boss, Matt Weiss, who signed Josh, who 951 00:54:19,720 --> 00:54:23,320 still works at Brooks, and then my new boss who I coach for nine 952 00:54:23,320 --> 00:54:26,880 years, Garrett Heath. So we all did a run, like an 8 953 00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:34,160 mile run. And yeah, like I was, I'd 954 00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:40,160 brought the weather 50 times in eight miles and then but I 955 00:54:40,160 --> 00:54:42,120 wasn't that like I wasn't that nervous. 956 00:54:42,120 --> 00:54:45,960 I was more excited for it. Like I like competition, so and 957 00:54:46,120 --> 00:54:48,760 I and I just believe in Josh and so and I believe in the team. 958 00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:52,240 I was pretty excited. Yeah. 959 00:54:52,360 --> 00:54:56,440 I just like wanted to get it going and and then I got Miller 960 00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:59,080 first. The only thing I messed up the 961 00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:05,000 whole day was like I the the big mall is by the stadium. 962 00:55:05,720 --> 00:55:10,120 So my dumb ass like forgot that this thing sold out. 963 00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,600 So I was like, oh, I'll get I'll get something to eat. 964 00:55:13,000 --> 00:55:16,400 Get Miller, go to the warm up track and then Josh and Julian 965 00:55:16,400 --> 00:55:19,960 will meet us there. And so I'm at that mall and 966 00:55:19,960 --> 00:55:21,520 there's like a million people there. 967 00:55:22,240 --> 00:55:27,280 So I just didn't eat that day. So I'd been up since 6:00, ran 968 00:55:27,280 --> 00:55:31,920 like 8 1/2 miles. The race is at 3230 and then 969 00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,000 33330I just didn't eat because I didn't have time. 970 00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:39,200 I had like a yeah, I think I got like water. 971 00:55:39,520 --> 00:55:44,880 So that was it. 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And for more ad reads like this, 994 00:57:09,000 --> 00:57:12,440 use Gabby 100 in the CITIUS MAG comment section. 995 00:57:12,800 --> 00:57:18,080 Happy running. You've described it, I think, as 996 00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:22,120 like the most fun you've ever had at a sporting event. 997 00:57:22,680 --> 00:57:27,480 I mean, yeah, it like what's what's even close? 998 00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:35,160 I don't know, I mean, I'm a massive Cubs fan and when they 999 00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:38,080 won the World Series in 2016, that was really awesome. 1000 00:57:38,840 --> 00:57:42,400 I'm a huge Michael Jordan fan. And like I've memories of just 1001 00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:46,120 like watching it at watching the games at the friends houses and 1002 00:57:46,120 --> 00:57:48,440 throwing parties. But this is still the best. 1003 00:57:48,440 --> 00:57:51,600 It was like it was so fun. And I'm old, like, you know, to 1004 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:54,920 have that much fun and like that was amazing. 1005 00:57:55,440 --> 00:57:57,960 Yeah. I don't, I, I want it to happen 1006 00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:59,400 again. So it was. 1007 00:57:59,480 --> 00:58:02,640 It was so cool. It's, it's not even to 1008 00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:06,160 undersell, I guess the importance of Brandon's race 1009 00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,440 too, 'cause it's like, I think that helped set the tone a 1010 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:14,240 little bit just too for the, the kind of day that that was bound 1011 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,280 to happen. I guess, I don't know. 1012 00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:19,840 I mean, how, where do you think Josh was to what Brandon did 1013 00:58:19,840 --> 00:58:23,440 before that race happened? And then I guess like for you, I 1014 00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:28,440 guess, did that help just, you know, kind of up the optimism a 1015 00:58:28,440 --> 00:58:36,160 bit? 100% So normally if an athlete 1016 00:58:36,160 --> 00:58:40,840 races well, I will tell the next athlete who's competing on the 1017 00:58:40,840 --> 00:58:42,720 team that they did well and here's what they did. 1018 00:58:43,080 --> 00:58:45,880 So Josh was like, because his race was an hour after, so he 1019 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:47,400 was warming up and Miller was going. 1020 00:58:48,160 --> 00:58:51,840 And so I popped in there, but Julian, watch Miller kick ass 1021 00:58:52,280 --> 00:58:55,800 came out. Josh was like literally getting 1022 00:58:55,800 --> 00:58:58,160 ready to start his job and he's tying his shoes. 1023 00:58:58,720 --> 00:59:01,400 And I'm just reading off Miller's splits and Josh is like 1024 00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:02,840 he's like looking up. He's like he's serious. 1025 00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:03,760 He's like, yeah, he destroyed him. 1026 00:59:03,760 --> 00:59:07,920 And it was awesome. And so that was like, OK, it's 1027 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:09,800 not that bad out there weather wise. 1028 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:15,920 So track the London's track is fast, crowd is amazing. 1029 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,160 Spencer does an amazing job at that meet. 1030 00:59:18,560 --> 00:59:21,080 Just so just sort of kind of feeling like, oh, this is this 1031 00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,480 is really good. And then it was couldn't have 1032 00:59:23,480 --> 00:59:26,240 been better timing. Like Miller planned it. 1033 00:59:26,240 --> 00:59:28,280 So he was coming out of the tunnel because he had all these 1034 00:59:28,280 --> 00:59:31,640 interviews to give. And so as he's walking out of 1035 00:59:31,640 --> 00:59:37,000 the tunnel, Josh is walking in. And Miller was just so fired up, 1036 00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:40,720 you know, like, he's just clapping his hands, hugging Josh 1037 00:59:40,720 --> 00:59:44,600 and like getting ready to go. And so yeah, that like that, 1038 00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:47,440 like, you know, 70 minutes was was was great. 1039 00:59:47,440 --> 00:59:50,840 And Miller's like, you know, cut from the same cloth. 1040 00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:52,520 It's got Josh. He's just an awesome human being 1041 00:59:52,520 --> 00:59:54,720 to work with. And so, you know, when he came 1042 00:59:54,720 --> 00:59:56,360 in, him and Julie and I are, like, hugging each other. 1043 00:59:56,360 --> 00:59:58,040 We're like, we're going out there watching Josh to do it, 1044 00:59:58,040 --> 00:59:59,320 you know? So it's like, it was fun. 1045 00:59:59,760 --> 01:00:01,120 Yeah. Miller helped for sure. 1046 01:00:02,120 --> 01:00:05,440 So yeah, with with with Brandon, I guess like the addition of him 1047 01:00:05,440 --> 01:00:10,200 to the team and like, I mean, what, what has he brought? 1048 01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:14,640 And I guess like first year, I guess like already starting to 1049 01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:17,680 see some of the benefits of, you know, the training under you. 1050 01:00:18,160 --> 01:00:22,480 But this year in particular, I mean, like what I guess you have 1051 01:00:22,480 --> 01:00:26,040 one year, but then this year, is it just building upon last year 1052 01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:29,120 that has really kind of helped him level up to, I mean, he's 1053 01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:33,600 arguably behind Cooper, right? Like the second best 800m runner 1054 01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,120 in the US and also has a chance of, you know, running 141 later 1055 01:00:38,120 --> 01:00:42,840 this year. So I think with Miller, you 1056 01:00:42,840 --> 01:00:47,760 know, when he came in the end of 2023, he was hurt and he had run 1057 01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:54,680 147 his first year as a pro. And so I was really cautious 1058 01:00:54,760 --> 01:01:00,800 with how to handle 2024. But, you know, I still thought 1059 01:01:00,800 --> 01:01:03,440 he could like, maybe make the team, the Olympic team. 1060 01:01:04,440 --> 01:01:08,400 And, you know, so we adjusted things in training that I 1061 01:01:08,400 --> 01:01:09,520 thought could be helpful for him. 1062 01:01:09,600 --> 01:01:11,200 And Miller's pretty open minded with that. 1063 01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:14,880 And so it was a really big credit to him that he just 1064 01:01:14,880 --> 01:01:19,440 wanted to trust me with that. And so, yeah, so that year went 1065 01:01:19,440 --> 01:01:23,720 well, you know, PRD and then made the Olympic team. 1066 01:01:24,640 --> 01:01:29,400 And then in 25, like I, I think I kind of didn't do him a good, 1067 01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:32,080 I did a little disservice. I was too conservative with him. 1068 01:01:33,560 --> 01:01:36,720 The other thing is like, I didn't, I was just caught off 1069 01:01:36,720 --> 01:01:39,880 guard with how the USA is went like, I didn't think that's what 1070 01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:42,120 it would would take to make the team. 1071 01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:52,040 And it's probably the hardest I've taken an L as a coach is up 1072 01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:55,480 there just because like, you know, when somebody buys in and 1073 01:01:55,480 --> 01:01:57,480 they like trust you and then they don't do it, you're like, 1074 01:01:57,480 --> 01:02:01,080 it's my fault, you know? And so, so I talked to Miller a 1075 01:02:01,080 --> 01:02:03,360 little bit and I was like, we're going to have to push it to the 1076 01:02:03,360 --> 01:02:05,720 envelope because it could take 141 to make the team. 1077 01:02:05,720 --> 01:02:10,760 Not that there's a team to make this year, but we wanted to set 1078 01:02:11,000 --> 01:02:13,320 a precedent in the US and globally. 1079 01:02:13,840 --> 01:02:18,040 So he was totally on board and you know, he let me do some 1080 01:02:18,040 --> 01:02:21,120 goofy things and training that I think would help his kick. 1081 01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:27,200 And so yeah, so like, you know, we've adjusted some stuff, but 1082 01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,200 it's a little bit just doing, he's just training a little 1083 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:32,360 harder right now. But it's, it's a combination of 1084 01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,680 that and the culmination of like 3 years of doing it that I think 1085 01:02:35,680 --> 01:02:38,840 is why he is doing what he's doing. 1086 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:43,240 The other thing is he's like evolved his race strategy a 1087 01:02:43,240 --> 01:02:48,320 little bit 'cause he's like when, when last year indoor 1088 01:02:48,320 --> 01:02:51,920 World Championships, when he got fifth, he was like, I'm taking 1089 01:02:51,920 --> 01:02:55,480 Holly head on. And I don't, I never want to 1090 01:02:57,400 --> 01:03:02,560 deflate an athlete, but I was like, I, I think that's not a 1091 01:03:02,560 --> 01:03:04,640 great idea that, that you can't beat him. 1092 01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:07,600 But like, you know, this is how I think you should beat him. 1093 01:03:07,600 --> 01:03:10,480 And Miller is just he's a dog man. 1094 01:03:10,480 --> 01:03:13,520 So he just took him head on and he got him and then it cost 1095 01:03:13,520 --> 01:03:17,120 Miller battle. And so, you know, I think for 1096 01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:21,360 him he was like, all right, I need to like have another tool 1097 01:03:21,360 --> 01:03:25,040 in my toolbox. And so he still got that ace up 1098 01:03:25,040 --> 01:03:29,240 his sleeve of hammering. I think we'll hope to see 1099 01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:30,800 something that was on with that with him. 1100 01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:33,880 But the kick was like, you know, he was like, OK, let's like 1101 01:03:33,880 --> 01:03:36,000 adjust some stuff and and do that. 1102 01:03:36,040 --> 01:03:39,240 And he's a perfect candidate to rate race like that. 1103 01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,440 He's he's like light and powerful. 1104 01:03:42,200 --> 01:03:45,200 You know, he's a smaller framed guy, I mean, and really powerful 1105 01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:48,080 and he's strong. Like he PR by I don't know how 1106 01:03:48,080 --> 01:03:51,360 many seconds, like 12 in the 1500 ran through 35 last year. 1107 01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:53,480 I bet you could run 31 right now. 1108 01:03:54,000 --> 01:03:56,960 So if you have a guy that can run that fast in like a 200 and 1109 01:03:56,960 --> 01:04:01,200 run a 331, you know, like he should be able to kick if he's, 1110 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:05,360 you know, smart, the 1st 600, it's been fun. 1111 01:04:05,560 --> 01:04:07,840 He's like looking good too. Like he had a really good 1112 01:04:07,840 --> 01:04:11,520 workout this week. And yeah, we've been nice seeing 1113 01:04:11,520 --> 01:04:16,640 my scooper again in New York. His final 100 in London was. 1114 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:21,160 So nasty. Yeah, I, I was reading it was a 1115 01:04:21,160 --> 01:04:22,840 David Epstein's, like, newsletter. 1116 01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:26,560 And then, of course, like his his book where he talks about 1117 01:04:26,960 --> 01:04:30,320 like, you know, age group phenoms and how they pan out and 1118 01:04:30,320 --> 01:04:33,000 stuff. And so, you know, even someone 1119 01:04:33,000 --> 01:04:36,000 like Brandon where he had all these national records as a 1120 01:04:36,000 --> 01:04:40,800 teenager and now he's, you know, better than ever, right? 1121 01:04:40,800 --> 01:04:45,640 So it's like when you took him on, I guess, and reviewed some 1122 01:04:45,640 --> 01:04:48,080 of his history or have talked to him about that kind of stuff. 1123 01:04:48,080 --> 01:04:51,520 Like, what do you think it is that his, you know, maybe his 1124 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:54,160 previous coach's family did right? 1125 01:04:54,160 --> 01:04:57,400 That kind of helped keep some meat on the bone that is now 1126 01:04:57,400 --> 01:05:02,280 actually like succeeding. Yeah, so his mom and dad coached 1127 01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:08,320 him when he was in high school and I think they did a really 1128 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:16,240 amazing job of like teaching him how to compete and not overdoing 1129 01:05:16,240 --> 01:05:21,240 it in any one area of training. You know, if it's like volume or 1130 01:05:21,240 --> 01:05:26,200 intensity or weight room stuff. Like he had a really good like 1131 01:05:27,200 --> 01:05:31,800 even distribution of that. And so, yeah, so he's not, he's 1132 01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,400 not burned out. Like he's super excited to keep 1133 01:05:35,400 --> 01:05:36,720 doing this. He loves his job. 1134 01:05:37,920 --> 01:05:41,000 And that's all this stuff too is like, you know, at meeting a 1135 01:05:41,000 --> 01:05:45,680 parent now, it's like I think of stuff that Miller's parents did, 1136 01:05:45,680 --> 01:05:49,560 you know, like I, I am curious from like the mental standpoint 1137 01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:51,080 because he was so good when he was young. 1138 01:05:51,520 --> 01:05:59,240 Like how he at 24 is like still childlike with how he approaches 1139 01:05:59,240 --> 01:06:02,280 the sport and how much he loves racing in these big moments. 1140 01:06:02,280 --> 01:06:05,000 Because sometimes you see that the kids get burnt out. 1141 01:06:05,120 --> 01:06:07,960 He's just not mentally, he's not mentally burnt out. 1142 01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,640 So that's, you know, that's probably more of like what 1143 01:06:12,640 --> 01:06:15,760 they're talking about at dinner and if anything then like how 1144 01:06:15,760 --> 01:06:20,080 they coached him and just like raising such a, you know, 1145 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,520 well-rounded person in that way. With the success Brandon's had 1146 01:06:24,840 --> 01:06:29,920 with Josh, of course, like when you show up to practice and 1147 01:06:29,920 --> 01:06:32,360 you've got the rest of the team, like what have the vibes been 1148 01:06:32,360 --> 01:06:33,920 like? Because I feel like it's 1149 01:06:33,920 --> 01:06:36,560 contagious. And, you know, all these people 1150 01:06:36,800 --> 01:06:39,480 probably see that kind of stuff in it, and they can feed off of 1151 01:06:39,480 --> 01:06:42,880 those performances, too. Yeah, vibes are high right now. 1152 01:06:44,360 --> 01:06:49,080 Yeah, it's we, we had a couple days we didn't meet when we got 1153 01:06:49,080 --> 01:06:53,120 back from New York because, you know, USA is hard on the 1154 01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,440 American athletes and it's four days. 1155 01:06:56,440 --> 01:06:58,840 It's really mentally draining to get into New York and back. 1156 01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:03,160 It's not super easy. You know, quite frankly, like I 1157 01:07:03,160 --> 01:07:07,600 just was like pressing so hard. And so I needed like a a day or 1158 01:07:07,600 --> 01:07:13,520 two to like unpack my bag. But vibes are high. 1159 01:07:13,520 --> 01:07:16,800 Tomorrow practice, we're going to be on the track here in 1160 01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:20,760 Seattle, obviously. Yeah, so and some people are out 1161 01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:24,480 racing, but yeah, I think it, I think we're in a good spot 1162 01:07:24,480 --> 01:07:26,640 there. I think the other athletes that 1163 01:07:26,640 --> 01:07:30,160 are, you know, like still in the developmental phase, trying to 1164 01:07:30,160 --> 01:07:33,480 get better. Like I think of Tegan, you know, 1165 01:07:33,480 --> 01:07:37,560 running her third PR in a row, so and making her first final 1166 01:07:37,560 --> 01:07:40,480 ever. I think like, you know, she she 1167 01:07:40,480 --> 01:07:44,240 was super excited when when we got to New York and, you know, 1168 01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:46,520 learned some of the stuff that these older athletes are doing. 1169 01:07:47,040 --> 01:07:48,160 I think it's AI think it's a good spot. 1170 01:07:48,160 --> 01:07:51,400 And then we hire, we signed some really good rookies coming in 1171 01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,120 too. So, you know, they're they're 1172 01:07:54,120 --> 01:07:57,680 excited to sign and join, which is always a great indicator of 1173 01:07:57,680 --> 01:07:59,480 like how they'll be as teammates. 1174 01:08:00,080 --> 01:08:03,960 So yeah, next you'll have its challenges for sure, because 1175 01:08:03,960 --> 01:08:05,480 there's like this disparity on the team. 1176 01:08:05,480 --> 01:08:08,200 You know, it's like we have these new people. 1177 01:08:08,560 --> 01:08:11,200 We have a couple veterans that like, you know, Josh and Miller 1178 01:08:11,200 --> 01:08:12,920 might end the year and the one in the world. 1179 01:08:12,920 --> 01:08:17,359 And so, you know, getting everybody together from a Click 1180 01:08:17,359 --> 01:08:21,279 to a common goal is a little bit probably a big challenge on me 1181 01:08:21,279 --> 01:08:24,479 next year. But our team culture is strong 1182 01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:29,240 and they like trading together and they understand that you 1183 01:08:29,240 --> 01:08:31,760 working with each other is the best way they can be 1184 01:08:31,760 --> 01:08:34,439 individually successful. So, you know, they can kind of 1185 01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:37,000 foster that healthy culture on their own, too. 1186 01:08:38,439 --> 01:08:41,240 All right, some rapid fire ones to close things out. 1187 01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,200 Everyone probably wants a number here, but what is What does Josh 1188 01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:50,080 run for a 5K this season If you built a race around it with. 1189 01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:55,319 This 01240. Literally, I think that's 1190 01:08:55,319 --> 01:08:57,399 exactly what Mack Fleet said. He's like he's going to say 1191 01:08:57,399 --> 01:09:04,080 something absurd like 1240. Yeah, yeah, 'cause he, yeah, I 1192 01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:08,760 feel confident with that. Josh hates the 5K, so you know, 1193 01:09:08,760 --> 01:09:11,040 he's beat him up. But yeah, 1240 seems reasonable 1194 01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:13,439 for him. I mean, he's won, you know, 1195 01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:14,840 people, people give him a hard time. 1196 01:09:14,840 --> 01:09:18,600 He has won two titles in the world for the 3K. 1197 01:09:19,000 --> 01:09:20,680 Yeah, it's not bad at other events. 1198 01:09:22,800 --> 01:09:26,279 What's the longest race Josh runs before he retires? 1199 01:09:26,279 --> 01:09:27,880 Because he he did have that quote. 1200 01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,319 I think that they picked up where he they said he he wants 1201 01:09:30,319 --> 01:09:32,240 to win the London Marathon before his career is. 1202 01:09:32,240 --> 01:09:35,680 Done. Yes, yeah, he, I don't know if 1203 01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:40,439 he does that to give me a hard time, but I, I actually think 1204 01:09:40,439 --> 01:09:44,640 the marathon, I think he, he said something the other day 1205 01:09:44,640 --> 01:09:48,080 like a couple weeks ago and I was like, OK, shit, he's 1206 01:09:48,080 --> 01:09:50,640 serious, 'cause I actually love the marathon. 1207 01:09:50,640 --> 01:09:57,320 So yeah, that'd be, that's what he wants to do. 1208 01:09:57,320 --> 01:10:00,000 If he wants to skip the five and a 10 and just go right to the 1209 01:10:00,000 --> 01:10:07,040 marathon, let's do it. If you got to design 1500 meter 1210 01:10:07,040 --> 01:10:10,080 record attempt from scratch, and I know you said you hate the 1211 01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:12,840 Pacers, the wave lights and all that stuff, but I'll let you 1212 01:10:12,840 --> 01:10:15,520 pick. Venue date Rabbits Time of year? 1213 01:10:15,520 --> 01:10:18,600 What does it look like? This could be a real thing 1214 01:10:20,080 --> 01:10:27,040 because we've talked about this and I've working with Bram, the 1215 01:10:27,080 --> 01:10:29,120 the Wave Light founder was really fun. 1216 01:10:29,160 --> 01:10:31,280 The guy's just so dialed. Like we got to hire this guy 1217 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,360 somehow. Like he's just, he's just so 1218 01:10:33,360 --> 01:10:40,600 dialed. I would want to go back to 1219 01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,600 London next year and do it there. 1220 01:10:46,240 --> 01:10:47,400 Yeah. What else did you ask me about 1221 01:10:47,400 --> 01:10:50,520 it? All right, so you said date 1222 01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:53,600 would be London, London next year Rabbits. 1223 01:10:53,600 --> 01:10:56,520 I guess at that point you have, you have Gary probably with a 1224 01:10:56,520 --> 01:10:58,600 with some training under under you I. 1225 01:10:59,200 --> 01:11:06,480 I proposed Gary this year when Sam went down and we were like 1226 01:11:06,840 --> 01:11:10,320 it was like sun. It was like Monday so would have 1227 01:11:10,320 --> 01:11:13,240 been still moving. But you know, Gary might want to 1228 01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:14,840 be in the race. It's true. 1229 01:11:16,360 --> 01:11:19,880 Maybe, you know, Josh have to financially reward him enough to 1230 01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:22,920 sell him on taking him through 1200. 1231 01:11:23,400 --> 01:11:27,960 But yeah, I don't know the guy that he was that was supposed to 1232 01:11:27,960 --> 01:11:30,480 be the second pacer. I'd like to, I I really like his 1233 01:11:30,480 --> 01:11:34,240 coach and it'd be cool to have him him help, you know, maybe we 1234 01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:39,880 have, oh, I don't even know, Kidder come back and do it, take 1235 01:11:39,880 --> 01:11:41,240 it through it again. Yeah. 1236 01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:43,280 Pacers that I have to think about a little bit. 1237 01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:46,640 The kidder I want to have is the first Pacer again. 1238 01:11:48,000 --> 01:11:50,200 Yeah. That's a harder job. 1239 01:11:50,960 --> 01:11:54,840 It's like it's hard, like not easy to do what he did. 1240 01:11:56,080 --> 01:11:58,560 Yeah. So I think it was a week ago you 1241 01:11:58,560 --> 01:12:02,560 told let's run that the 1500 record is unlikely this year. 1242 01:12:02,600 --> 01:12:04,560 I guess we're we're chatting another week later. 1243 01:12:04,800 --> 01:12:08,920 Has it changed it like or still you think unlikely? 1244 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:12,720 And I don't know, today's Thursday. 1245 01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:16,040 So Josh looked good in his round. 1246 01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:18,240 Better than he, didn't he? He. 1247 01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:21,680 Barely broke a sweat with that 358 and it was it was actually 1248 01:12:21,720 --> 01:12:23,320 very. Funny, did you see him stop his 1249 01:12:23,320 --> 01:12:25,200 watch? Like, come on, dude. 1250 01:12:26,000 --> 01:12:29,560 He, he, he just like did that Like he wasn't, but that was 1251 01:12:29,560 --> 01:12:31,520 like cracking up. He looked good. 1252 01:12:31,520 --> 01:12:36,760 So I don't know how many opportunities do we have left. 1253 01:12:36,760 --> 01:12:38,000 We have like Zurich or something like that. 1254 01:12:38,000 --> 01:12:41,920 It's like kind of late. I would think it's like still 1255 01:12:41,920 --> 01:12:48,240 under 40% because like I, he's flying pretty close to the sun 1256 01:12:48,240 --> 01:12:52,120 right now. And, you know, if there's one 1257 01:12:52,120 --> 01:12:55,080 thing I've hopefully done well with Josh over these eight years 1258 01:12:55,080 --> 01:12:57,480 is like, I've protected him a little bit. 1259 01:12:59,160 --> 01:13:03,800 And so I would be a little surprised if we can fly, 1260 01:13:03,800 --> 01:13:05,480 continue to fly that close to the sun. 1261 01:13:06,800 --> 01:13:11,080 But he's fit. So he looked good yesterday. 1262 01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:13,160 There's the ultimate champs, right? 1263 01:13:13,160 --> 01:13:17,600 And there's a wild card path into that, like also maybe on 1264 01:13:17,600 --> 01:13:20,280 the table or what? That's that's on the table, 1265 01:13:20,280 --> 01:13:22,040 yeah. Yeah, all right. 1266 01:13:22,040 --> 01:13:26,480 Final one is Josh said that the reason he did this whole thing 1267 01:13:26,480 --> 01:13:29,880 was he was doing it for the 8 year old version in the stands 1268 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:32,560 at Meadowbank on a dark night. So what's the equivalent for 1269 01:13:32,560 --> 01:13:34,120 you? I guess like what's who's the 1270 01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:38,520 version of Danny Mackie that you know, all of this was was for? 1271 01:13:39,400 --> 01:13:44,560 I was asking that you know my path to being a coach. 1272 01:13:46,480 --> 01:13:50,560 I've said this before it like before I got the Beast job, I 1273 01:13:50,560 --> 01:13:57,960 applied to 217 NCAA jobs and that's cover letter specific to 1274 01:13:57,960 --> 01:14:04,440 the university, phone calls, countless emails, and I got one 1275 01:14:04,440 --> 01:14:09,240 interview, you know, in in the place, you know, five years I 1276 01:14:09,240 --> 01:14:11,840 was doing that applying and I didn't get the job offer. 1277 01:14:13,160 --> 01:14:14,760 I still give hell in a hard time. 1278 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:17,520 She was the San Francisco coach and she pushed it Oregon for a 1279 01:14:17,520 --> 01:14:23,480 little bit. And so, yeah, so I think of I 1280 01:14:23,480 --> 01:14:28,120 think of coaches that are grinding to try to just 1281 01:14:28,760 --> 01:14:31,040 honestly, like work with athletes. 1282 01:14:31,160 --> 01:14:35,200 You know, like, for me, when I was working at Nike, I started a 1283 01:14:35,200 --> 01:14:37,160 nonprofit with a couple other people there. 1284 01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:41,240 And, you know, my motivation was, well, we, we we were trying 1285 01:14:41,240 --> 01:14:44,440 to put athletes into public schools for physical education 1286 01:14:44,440 --> 01:14:46,680 because it's not mandatory in Oregon. 1287 01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:49,880 So we're trying to help underprivileged schools just be 1288 01:14:49,880 --> 01:14:52,240 active. And then the other thing was 1289 01:14:52,240 --> 01:14:53,720 like, I have to coach some athletes then. 1290 01:14:54,040 --> 01:14:58,120 And so, you know, Steven Pifer, who now works at Skechers, Yeah, 1291 01:14:58,120 --> 01:15:01,880 I could think for a second, was one of the first high level male 1292 01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,440 athletes and actually the first athlete that ever paid me, 1293 01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,720 Brandon Griffith, a high school kid out of Georgia, I think his 1294 01:15:07,720 --> 01:15:09,160 dad paid me like 40 bucks a month. 1295 01:15:10,400 --> 01:15:11,760 That was when I was in grad school. 1296 01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:19,040 So I think of those coaches a lot and like people that were in 1297 01:15:19,040 --> 01:15:23,400 the situation I was in 20 years ago, I was at GA, at Colorado 1298 01:15:23,400 --> 01:15:29,160 State and with Dell hassle. And so I think if there's a lot 1299 01:15:29,160 --> 01:15:33,160 of G as out there not making any money working 50 hours a week. 1300 01:15:35,360 --> 01:15:38,760 A lot of my high school teammates and roommates are 1301 01:15:38,760 --> 01:15:42,640 really like Andy Dirks and John Sipple and Jeff Jenidis are 1302 01:15:42,640 --> 01:15:44,880 really phenomenal high school coaches in Illinois. 1303 01:15:45,680 --> 01:15:49,480 And they don't get, they just, you know, they, they have their 1304 01:15:49,480 --> 01:15:52,840 state championships and stuff like that, but they, there's not 1305 01:15:52,840 --> 01:15:55,200 a but with that, they're just really good at what they do. 1306 01:15:55,200 --> 01:16:00,240 I, I think, you know, I just got fortunate enough where I saw 1307 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:04,000 Josh running a 300, you know, when I was in Albuquerque and 1308 01:16:04,440 --> 01:16:12,000 him and I connected right away. And so, yeah, I hope that I, and 1309 01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:15,920 I'm really proud of the fact that I've stood up against 1310 01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:21,960 doping for my life and career on the line to stand up for clean 1311 01:16:21,960 --> 01:16:26,680 sport. And so I think for coaches that 1312 01:16:27,160 --> 01:16:32,000 see the way Josh did it, it's like scalable to high school 1313 01:16:32,000 --> 01:16:37,400 athletes and college athletes. And there's just this, you know, 1314 01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:41,760 love of the pursuit that even a recreational person that's like 1315 01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:46,200 trying to get off the couch and run a 5K can be inspired by that 1316 01:16:46,200 --> 01:16:49,080 because you know, Josh is like a very we we were joking around 1317 01:16:49,080 --> 01:16:53,720 about it with doctor Kyle, like, like he, you know, he just eats 1318 01:16:53,720 --> 01:16:56,280 really healthy. That's hard to do though. 1319 01:16:56,720 --> 01:17:01,240 I know that for myself. So I think it represents like 1320 01:17:01,240 --> 01:17:06,840 this kind of blue collar approach and grind and, you 1321 01:17:06,840 --> 01:17:08,960 know, not leaving any stone unturned. 1322 01:17:08,960 --> 01:17:12,440 Like if you get denied 217 times, you know, that's like he 1323 01:17:12,440 --> 01:17:13,880 did someone telling you're not good enough. 1324 01:17:13,880 --> 01:17:18,240 So it's, you know, to, for me to like go to the US championships 1325 01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:21,720 and have all these people say like that I've, you know, quite 1326 01:17:21,720 --> 01:17:23,560 frankly, I didn't even know they knew that. 1327 01:17:23,560 --> 01:17:26,680 I, they, I just think they think I'm some dude that's around the 1328 01:17:26,680 --> 01:17:28,440 Brooks, if they even know about the Brooks team. 1329 01:17:28,440 --> 01:17:31,000 And so it's like, I had so many people coming up to me. 1330 01:17:31,000 --> 01:17:36,120 It was just like this, you know, that's, it's weird, but you 1331 01:17:36,120 --> 01:17:39,080 know, it's, it's still, we're still like this grinding team. 1332 01:17:39,080 --> 01:17:40,080 Like, I don't think that will change. 1333 01:17:40,080 --> 01:17:44,720 That won't change. And yeah, so I think it stands 1334 01:17:44,720 --> 01:17:48,040 for those people that, like are trying to trying to work with 1335 01:17:48,040 --> 01:17:50,680 human beings, man. You know, like, it's the hardest 1336 01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:52,200 part of the job and it's the most rewarding. 1337 01:17:52,200 --> 01:17:59,840 Like you can't recreate the feeling that Josh did for me as 1338 01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:04,840 a coach, like in any sort of like synthetic way, like it had 1339 01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:06,280 to been done the way that he did it. 1340 01:18:07,000 --> 01:18:13,320 And I think that's why a lot of people like coaching. 1341 01:18:13,360 --> 01:18:17,800 I just got done from jiu jitsu. Marcel Alonso's the my jiu jitsu 1342 01:18:17,800 --> 01:18:21,080 coach. He's was paralyzed at one point. 1343 01:18:21,080 --> 01:18:24,120 He's almost 60, so his spine is fused. 1344 01:18:24,960 --> 01:18:29,520 And it's like the thing today was 5 dudes, I'm the youngest 1345 01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:32,200 one is 39, I'm the second youngest. 1346 01:18:32,240 --> 01:18:35,400 And so we're just a group of older guys. 1347 01:18:35,400 --> 01:18:38,840 And he is like so passionate about it, just teaching us this 1348 01:18:38,840 --> 01:18:41,760 new stuff. And that's what coaching is, you 1349 01:18:41,760 --> 01:18:43,920 know, same thing with getting a world record. 1350 01:18:43,920 --> 01:18:46,240 It's still, it's just scalable the other way, so. 1351 01:18:47,520 --> 01:18:49,400 Very cool. Well, once again, 1352 01:18:49,400 --> 01:18:53,520 congratulations, Danny and it you know, I'm sure the 1353 01:18:53,520 --> 01:18:56,960 performance from Josh brought so much joy to you and I guess like 1354 01:18:57,120 --> 01:18:59,280 all these achievements so far this year from the beast have, 1355 01:18:59,400 --> 01:19:02,200 you know, brought a lot of joy to a lot of other people too. 1356 01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:06,920 So Congrats and excited for the season to continue and. 1357 01:19:07,200 --> 01:19:08,360 Keep rolling. So there's more to come. 1358 01:19:09,360 --> 01:19:10,480 Thanks, Chris. I appreciate it. 1359 01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:14,280 All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1360 01:19:14,560 --> 01:19:17,280 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1361 01:19:17,280 --> 01:19:20,040 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1362 01:19:20,520 --> 01:19:23,360 A big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair and to everyone 1363 01:19:23,360 --> 01:19:26,360 behind the scenes who helps make the CITIUS MAG Podcast happen. 1364 01:19:26,920 --> 01:19:28,840 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 1365 01:19:28,840 --> 01:19:32,720 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 1366 01:19:32,720 --> 01:19:34,600 read every single one. You can find 1367 01:19:34,600 --> 01:19:38,440 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 1368 01:19:38,440 --> 01:19:40,000 all of CITIUS MAG social channels. 1369 01:19:40,160 --> 01:19:42,280 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.