1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:03,360 This episode of the City Smack podcast is. 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,640 Presented by X Endurance When you finish a hard workout, 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,160 whether it's a long run or a workout on the track or a big 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,760 lift session, the work isn't actually done. 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,200 We all know this. That's when recovery starts. 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,160 It can get expensive to constantly pop into a smoothie 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,840 shop after a run. So one of the things that I've 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,680 been doing lately is using X Endurance Protein, which is 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,960 designed specifically to help your body recover, rebuild, and 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,880 get stronger after training. I'm super excited to welcome X 11 00:00:32,880 --> 00:00:36,320 Endurance into Cydia Smack's family of sponsors since I've 12 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:38,920 watched them support many professional athletes over the 13 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:42,040 last decade. Mac back in the day was an ex 14 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,720 endurance athlete. Lately you may have seen Jess 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,760 McClain using their product as she builds up to the Boston 16 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:50,080 Marathon. What makes their protein a 17 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,680 little different is their blend. It combines 4 different types of 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:56,960 protein so your body gets both fast absorbing protein for 19 00:00:57,160 --> 00:01:00,320 immediate recovery and slower release protein to support 20 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,200 muscle repair over time. Each serving delivers 20 grams 21 00:01:04,200 --> 00:01:08,800 of protein and over 4 grams of BCA AS, which help support 22 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,200 muscle growth and recovery after long sessions. 23 00:01:11,360 --> 00:01:15,960 It also includes electrolytes and vitamins B6B12 and D to 24 00:01:15,960 --> 00:01:18,880 support your overall recovery. And one thing that I've 25 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,240 appreciated is that it's easy on the stomach. 26 00:01:21,520 --> 00:01:25,040 No bloating or digestion issues like you sometimes get with 27 00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:28,920 other whey proteins. You just mix 1 scoop with about 28 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,040 four to 6 ounces of liquid and it's great before a workout, 29 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:35,080 after a workout, or really anytime during the day when you 30 00:01:35,080 --> 00:01:38,800 want to support your recovery. Now if you want to go crazy, 31 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,680 here's my go to mix which is the chocolate protein, half a 32 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,880 banana, a scoop of peanut butter, ice and some almond 33 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,240 milk. Mix it all together, delicious. 34 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,560 If you're putting in the work and training X Endurance protein 35 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:54,200 can help your body bounce back and get you ready for that next 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:56,480 big session. Sidious Mag podcast listeners, 37 00:01:56,480 --> 00:02:00,280 you can get 25% off your order using code SIDIOUS at checkout 38 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:04,080 when you visit xendurance.com. They have loads of other 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,360 products and I'm working my way through a few other dietary 40 00:02:07,360 --> 00:02:09,880 supplements, so stay tuned on more of those in the coming 41 00:02:09,880 --> 00:02:11,600 weeks. Check it all out at 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 xendurance.com. Code Sidious for 25% off your 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,280 first order. What's up everyone? 44 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 You are listening to the CDs Mag podcast. 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,080 I'm your host Chris Chavez, and every week we go beyond the 46 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:27,760 results to bring you conversations with the biggest 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,160 names on the track, the roads and behind the scenes. 48 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:33,440 From world class athletes and coaches to innovators shaping 49 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,600 the sport. If it's happening on the track, 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,520 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 51 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,040 deep dives into the moments that define careers, and the kind of 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,000 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,200 So let's get into it because we love track and. 54 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,040 Field. My guest for today's episode is 55 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,760 Ryan Ford, a member of the ON Athletics Club's road squad, who 56 00:02:55,760 --> 00:03:00,000 just ran 2 hours, 5 minutes and 46 seconds at the 2026 Boston 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,120 Marathon, finishing among the top Americans and one of the 58 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:07,240 fastest and deepest fields the race has ever seen in it's 130 59 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:12,360 year history. 12 months ago, Ryan ran 208 flat at the 2025 60 00:03:12,360 --> 00:03:14,920 Boston Marathon in what was his breakthrough performance. 61 00:03:15,160 --> 00:03:18,320 It was the race that landed him his on contract and got him 62 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:20,840 training under Dathan Ritzenheim and Laura Sweet. 63 00:03:21,440 --> 00:03:24,760 He came back to the same city, the same course and went 2 1/2 64 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:27,360 minutes faster. What makes Ryan's story 65 00:03:27,360 --> 00:03:30,560 compelling beyond the result is the trajectory. 66 00:03:30,800 --> 00:03:33,920 He was a 14-O75K runner out of college at UT. 67 00:03:33,920 --> 00:03:37,400 Martin transferred to Iowa State, chopped 30 seconds off of 68 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,960 that in a COVID extra year, joined ZAP Fitness, paced 69 00:03:40,960 --> 00:03:43,520 Clayton Young to a two O 8 marathon in Chicago. 70 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,120 Before. Ryan had even debuted in the 71 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:48,600 marathon himself, so ever since then he's been on this straight 72 00:03:48,600 --> 00:03:51,160 upward line. In this conversation we talk 73 00:03:51,160 --> 00:03:54,040 about the training block that built this performance, the 74 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,560 aggressive long runs with Joe Clecker on the dirt roads of 75 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,080 Boulder, the Scottsdale camp that reset the build, and the 76 00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,680 race plan that Dathan drew up for a day everyone knew was 77 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,520 going to be fast. Ryan also walks us through the 78 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:09,040 key tactical moments on the course and shares with Dathan 79 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,400 told him after the race about how high his ceiling might 80 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,280 actually be. So without further ado, here is 81 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:28,960 Ryan Ford. All right now welcome on Ryan 82 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:33,880 Ford to the CDs Mac Podcast, fresh off of a two O 546 at the 83 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:35,760 Boston Marathon. Has the time just sort of 84 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,760 settled in yet now that you kind of had some a little bit of time 85 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:41,200 to process the results of this one? 86 00:04:41,680 --> 00:04:46,680 I I feel like the marathon so long I almost was processing it 87 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:50,000 in the race and now like once I finished, I didn't feel that 88 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,920 crazy just 'cause I was on 2O4 pace for so long that now like 89 00:04:54,920 --> 00:04:58,520 when I crossed I was like I like slipped into the two O 5 like 90 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,960 man, yeah, I ran 2O5. I guess it unreal, yeah. 91 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:04,560 As the race was like progressing, you know, I'm sure 92 00:05:04,560 --> 00:05:07,000 you peeked at your watch or would it were able to catch, you 93 00:05:07,000 --> 00:05:11,360 know, the clock up ahead or at some of the the mile markers. 94 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,840 Like was it all making sense to you in real time? 95 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,280 I don't know if this helped me or hurt me in the end but I 96 00:05:17,600 --> 00:05:21,120 tried to not look at my watch for the first half and the first 97 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,040 time I did any mental math like looking at any clocks was at 98 00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:31,000 13.1. So I saw 6150 and I was like OK 99 00:05:31,200 --> 00:05:33,320 I knew we were running like a little quick, maybe not that 100 00:05:33,320 --> 00:05:34,760 quick. Maybe that helped me not 101 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,800 overthink it, because in the end I think it still worked out for 102 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:39,640 sure. Yeah. 103 00:05:39,640 --> 00:05:43,720 So I guess I want to take a couple steps back and just even 104 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:49,360 go back a whole year because for you, Boston 2025 was this major 105 00:05:49,360 --> 00:05:51,640 breakthrough where you run 2O8 flat. 106 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:54,720 You put yourself on the radar at the time, I think you were, you 107 00:05:54,720 --> 00:05:58,720 know, with ZAP Fitness, but still just sort of looking for 108 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:03,200 that breakthrough performance to get sort of the, you know, 109 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:05,080 official big contract and that kind of stuff. 110 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:08,360 So you know, how big was it last year? 111 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,680 And then, you know, kind of heading back into the city this 112 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,360 time around, like, were some of those emotions coming back to 113 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:17,840 you on, like, how momentous it was to return to that city? 114 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:21,160 I was trying to kind of hold back my emotions a little bit 115 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,280 this weekend. And you know, you don't, you 116 00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:26,800 don't need all that extra stuff going through your head when 117 00:06:26,800 --> 00:06:29,200 you're lining up. But I mean, it was huge. 118 00:06:29,200 --> 00:06:33,200 It's the reason why I'm sponsored by on last year's 119 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:36,600 Boston. It's the reason why I'm in OAC 120 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,640 training with Joe and under Dathan. 121 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:44,160 And yeah, everything's happened and it's pretty cool that I got 122 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:49,400 to come back healthy and I really wanted to put on like a 123 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:53,240 good performance and maybe that led to a little bit of my more 124 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:55,640 aggressive running. It was pretty special to say the 125 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:57,760 least. How different I guess was sort 126 00:06:57,760 --> 00:07:02,480 of the training under Pete and ZAP to then just kind of move 127 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:04,800 with Dathan and Laura's training. 128 00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:06,520 Like what were some of the adjustments? 129 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:11,120 And, you know, it's not a total, total shift, but you know, in 130 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:13,440 training for last year's Boston versus this year's Boston. 131 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,480 Yeah, a lot of stuff is pretty similar. 132 00:07:16,560 --> 00:07:21,400 I mean, marathon training, it's like feels like mostly a salt 133 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:23,280 game at this point. It's just all about like the 134 00:07:23,280 --> 00:07:27,400 consistency and putting together some smart training. 135 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:31,720 But the biggest difference has been these more aggressive long 136 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:33,520 runs that Joe and I have been doing. 137 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:39,120 So my first build with Oaci only did two of them just to kind of 138 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,320 ease me in. They were definitely a shock to 139 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,120 me. But this build we, we got in 140 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,720 four, about 3 weeks apart each just all the way back in 141 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:53,720 January. And yeah, I when I say like 142 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:59,640 aggressive, I mean like 520. But sometimes in the dirt roads 143 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:04,400 of Boulder that lasts like 30 minutes of that, you know, two 144 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,000 hour and 18 minute run can feel pretty grindy, can feel like the 145 00:08:08,000 --> 00:08:10,160 grind of a marathon. And I think that helped prepare 146 00:08:10,160 --> 00:08:13,200 us a lot for the grind of the marathon. 147 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:18,000 So when it's like long runs in that you know, 518 and 520 sort 148 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,440 of range that we kind of see you guys pop off on on Strava, 149 00:08:21,680 --> 00:08:26,360 what's the sort of like weekly sort of mileage look like in for 150 00:08:26,360 --> 00:08:28,840 most of the build? Yeah, most of the build I think 151 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,960 we're around 1:15, I feel like has been a sweet spot for me. 152 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:35,200 I mean, that's about what I was doing at ZAP as well. 153 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:39,679 So it's nice that the the mileage hasn't changed a ton. 154 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:44,000 There's been some talk about maybe in a builder to like 155 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,320 adding in a few things, but I feel like everything went so 156 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:50,960 well. This build 115 might be the 157 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,680 sweet spot, but we'll we'll see. I might try to experiment a 158 00:08:53,680 --> 00:08:56,960 little bit more. The build for New York, I mean, 159 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:01,120 it wasn't sort of your best day, right, Compared to to Boston, 160 00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:04,520 you still managed to compete among the the top Americans. 161 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:06,760 What were some of the takeaways from from that one because it 162 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:10,360 was just sort of like your first block with OAC? 163 00:09:10,560 --> 00:09:13,560 Oh yeah, the the Chicago Block. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 164 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:17,800 Yeah, I, I think, I think it was a little bit of an adjustment 165 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:19,480 like the first part of that build. 166 00:09:20,560 --> 00:09:24,960 And even then I was, I flew out to Boulder like a couple weeks 167 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:28,440 into the build. So that build felt very short. 168 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:33,040 I thought I had way more time than I actually did so to reset 169 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:35,280 this winter. And you know, we went down to 170 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:39,200 Scottsdale in January and that's when I really started to get to 171 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:42,920 know like the guys on the team and and click and I got to train 172 00:09:42,920 --> 00:09:47,480 with them a ton, do some more track based stuff and kind of 173 00:09:47,480 --> 00:09:49,680 reset. I think that made a huge 174 00:09:49,680 --> 00:09:54,800 difference for the second build. I mean, Joe and I were talking 175 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,840 right before the race and you're like, man, like the fart licks 176 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,280 we were doing in Scottsdale feel like forever to go. 177 00:10:00,400 --> 00:10:03,320 It was it was definitely like a full size build this time, which 178 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,880 I think helped me a lot more. So with so many of those 179 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,320 workouts being sort of especially even like the those 180 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:16,440 steady long runs being marathon simulation workouts like then I 181 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,080 guess take me to parts of race day like did the training show 182 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:22,240 up when it was supposed to? I think so. 183 00:10:22,240 --> 00:10:27,200 I think kind of those grindy long runs helped me out when I 184 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:31,800 wasn't feeling so good after some of the Newton Hills on on 185 00:10:31,800 --> 00:10:34,520 Monday. Just, you know, I ran 2O8 in 186 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,680 2025, but that was a totally different scenario. 187 00:10:37,680 --> 00:10:41,520 I let the group go. I went through about 6330 I 188 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:46,160 think, so it's a then run. 6430 for my second-half is kind of 189 00:10:46,160 --> 00:10:51,000 like a even way to run Boston. I guess you could say this. 190 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,560 This time a lot more aggressive and I definitely felt the wall 191 00:10:54,560 --> 00:10:56,520 of the marathon that people talk about. 192 00:10:56,800 --> 00:11:00,720 Before the race, though, I guess we're kind of jumping, jumping 193 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:02,480 around. I mean, in the days leading up 194 00:11:02,480 --> 00:11:04,840 to it, everyone's looking at the weather forecast and they see 195 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,440 just sort of like how that tailwind was looking good for 196 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:13,000 race day when it got the time to sitting down with Dathan to 197 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:16,320 devise the race plan, Like what were some of the things that 198 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:19,080 were discussed? We weren't sure how much the 199 00:11:19,080 --> 00:11:22,760 tailwind would actually help us because it was a steady 200 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,320 tailwind, but not like super strong. 201 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:30,800 I'm sure it helped us a good bit, but definitely we we talked 202 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:33,000 about it and we're like, everybody's looking at this 203 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:35,560 weather and they're thinking like, this is the year to run 204 00:11:35,560 --> 00:11:39,440 fast in Boston, so you have to be ready for some crazy moves 205 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,920 and some crazy swings. So yeah, we we talked about it 206 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:48,440 and he didn't want us going much faster than 62 for the first 207 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,360 half. But he was also like, sometimes 208 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,640 in Boston, you just have to go with those moves, like don't be 209 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:56,640 scared. So it's good to hear that from 210 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,480 my coach. And yeah, we were definitely 211 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,840 worried that it was going to take out out like even faster 212 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:06,840 than than we did because, I mean, our haves have been going 213 00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:09,600 out crazy fast. We did Houston and New York and 214 00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:14,680 we ran. I ended up running 5948 this 215 00:12:14,680 --> 00:12:18,240 year, but I feel like my haves have gone out at like 58 pace. 216 00:12:19,240 --> 00:12:22,320 So that's been good practice not to overthink and panic. 217 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:26,200 So I was prepared. I mean, I did a much, maybe not 218 00:12:26,200 --> 00:12:30,000 much longer, but I did a longer warm up before this race and a 219 00:12:30,000 --> 00:12:33,720 lot more aggressive strides than I would for a typical marathon 220 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,520 just 'cause I was like, I have to be ready to go off of that 221 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,080 line. How helpful was it? 222 00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:42,160 I guess like having Joe by your side for so much of it. 223 00:12:42,480 --> 00:12:45,520 I mean, it's pretty helpful. I would say that we helped each 224 00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:49,920 other a lot more in the build. We we were kind of separated 225 00:12:49,920 --> 00:12:53,520 actually, which is funny that we finished 10 seconds apart. 226 00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:55,600 He was gaining on me quite a bit. 227 00:12:55,600 --> 00:13:00,440 And those last few miles, he ran it way more smart than I did for 228 00:13:00,440 --> 00:13:03,120 me, mostly late, late in the race. 229 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,320 I was battling with Clayton and Rory. 230 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,160 So they they helped me a ton. But yeah, I mean, in training, 231 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:11,560 Joe and I have been stride for stride. 232 00:13:11,560 --> 00:13:14,720 It feels like even one of our last workouts, like the last 233 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,760 workout where we did some lactate testing, our lactate was 234 00:13:18,760 --> 00:13:21,600 like to the decimal the same. And we're like, all right, 235 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:25,400 hopefully we're this means we're 1-2 in Boston, but we'll we'll 236 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:29,080 just cross arm in arm and then it ended up like finishing 237 00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:31,440 pretty close together. So that was funny. 238 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,680 Yeah, I guess like, that's what I was kind of wondering as the 239 00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,640 race was sort of unfolding is like, you know, last fall the 240 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:41,560 two of you ran, you know, different fall majors. 241 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:44,680 But this time around going into this block, like how much of the 242 00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,480 work all throughout this was, was together And what if if 243 00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:52,480 someone had popped into a workout in January, who was 244 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,120 where compared to the other? And then as it got closer, were 245 00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:58,480 you guys just step for step? Pretty much. 246 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,040 I mean most of the build we were step for step. 247 00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:03,120 We did almost everything together. 248 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,960 I got a little banged up after New York Half. 249 00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,840 So we did one workout where I did a something a little bit 250 00:14:09,840 --> 00:14:14,000 lighter while he was doing like some faster stuff on the track. 251 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:15,520 I'd kind of tweaked my hamstring. 252 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:20,840 So for that workout I was not breaking 5 flat just to make 253 00:14:20,840 --> 00:14:23,840 sure I wasn't like overstriding, overextending anything. 254 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,440 Whereas he would, he was feeling pretty good off of New York. 255 00:14:27,440 --> 00:14:31,080 So that that week after New York was maybe the biggest difference 256 00:14:31,760 --> 00:14:34,600 in our training. But personally, I think it 257 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:38,800 helped me to kind of I, I have this tendency to have a great 258 00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:43,600 race and then be super pumped and train super hard afterwards 259 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:47,280 and have to calm myself down later as I realize like I'm 260 00:14:47,280 --> 00:14:50,360 getting super tired. But this kind of like forced 261 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,520 easy week after New York, I think helped me out absorb a lot 262 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,440 of that fitness and I took a noticeable jump in those final 263 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,440 weeks of the build. How different is your fueling 264 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:04,840 plan for this one than Joe's? Because obviously that was a big 265 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:07,880 storyline, I think, for Joe heading into New York. 266 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:12,760 Yeah, He puts up some crazy numbers as far as fueling goes. 267 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:17,440 I'm trying to get like that. So I'm definitely pushing up my 268 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:22,360 carb intake. And I think we both kind of 269 00:15:22,360 --> 00:15:24,720 struggled with fueling actually in this race. 270 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:30,200 And I've got a few ideas of how I can change it up and still get 271 00:15:30,200 --> 00:15:33,040 in a lot. But I didn't get in nearly the 272 00:15:33,040 --> 00:15:36,760 amount that I'd set out for myself on the course. 273 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,280 But it was a lot still so. Yeah. 274 00:15:40,280 --> 00:15:42,800 What were you targeting? I guess per hour? 275 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,160 Yeah, I had four. Well, I'd set out four packets 276 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:52,800 worth of Morton 320. That's 320 grams of carbs 277 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:56,280 throughout the whole race. And I don't know exactly how 278 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:01,000 much I took. I would say that my 5325K 279 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:06,200 bottles I downed. And then from there it was more 280 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,520 like sipping. I take take a few sweat swigs of 281 00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,440 it and then once I was like, all right, stomach's not feeling so 282 00:16:14,440 --> 00:16:16,600 good, I would have to leave the bottle. 283 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,200 How did the race execution, I guess then compare to last 284 00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:25,640 year's where sort of like you go into that one a bit more under 285 00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,960 the radar versus this one, like after, you know, the successful 286 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:33,360 run in 2025, you know, some people would probably look to 287 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:35,880 you as well like one of the athletes to key off of. 288 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:39,400 And so, you know, you've got to kind of tread this line between 289 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,560 just sort of managing your own pace and splits versus just 290 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,040 looking to compete against the guys around you. 291 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:52,080 Yeah, I tried to kind of run my own race, but Boston it's it's 292 00:16:52,080 --> 00:16:53,280 different. You. 293 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:58,160 I feel like the best way to run it is to do exactly what we did, 294 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,600 which is like pack up and and just go for it. 295 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,160 So I feel like we were all so together early on. 296 00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,400 It's like you're not really keying off of 1 specific person, 297 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,359 it's more just following the moves of the race and trying not 298 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:17,560 to get too over your head but also not freak out about how 299 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:19,520 fast those splits are in the first half. 300 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:23,599 So there were a couple moves that were made that you were 301 00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:27,440 pretty quick to to cover. I feel like it was Lemi Burhanu 302 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,640 made kind of I think one of the first ones. 303 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:35,560 And right behind him were Alex Mayer, you and Rory. 304 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:38,840 Rory, I think now kind of says in retrospect, like that's one 305 00:17:38,840 --> 00:17:41,320 that kind of zapped his legs a little bit. 306 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:44,880 So, you know, I guess like take me through sort of like the key 307 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:49,560 moments in the race that you felt you responded to and then 308 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:51,840 others that were maybe a bit harder to. 309 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,120 Even early on in the race when it was me, I believe Pfeiffer 310 00:17:57,120 --> 00:18:01,760 and and Mayor all out there, I didn't realize that we 311 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:05,840 disconnected from the pack. Even I was like so glued and on 312 00:18:05,840 --> 00:18:09,480 the back of Pfeiffer, he was, he was going for it. 313 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:11,960 And I was feeling pretty good still at that point. 314 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,080 So I just kind of like focused on tucking in. 315 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:19,440 It wasn't until I think 8 miles when I looked back and realized 316 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:22,480 there was maybe like a 10 second gap at the time. 317 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:24,960 So that that's how locked in I was. 318 00:18:24,960 --> 00:18:28,960 I I wasn't really aware. And then, yeah, when the first 319 00:18:28,960 --> 00:18:32,880 big move happened, I kind of did some of that work, like trying 320 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:38,280 to get a few people, like I remember Clayton was there, Alex 321 00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:40,120 was there. They weren't wanting to close 322 00:18:40,120 --> 00:18:42,640 that gap. So I, I did quite a bit of work 323 00:18:42,720 --> 00:18:44,000 work. They're trying to close that 324 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,520 gap. And maybe I regret it a little 325 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,600 bit afterwards. I saw how fast I was running at 326 00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:53,280 that point in the race for the Newton Hills. 327 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,440 And I'm like, I wonder how I would have felt if it was a 328 00:18:56,440 --> 00:19:01,120 couple miles, a couple seconds, a mile slower through that. 329 00:19:01,120 --> 00:19:05,320 But the move after that, which I think was John career, that was 330 00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:08,400 kind of like, well, he's not messing around. 331 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:12,440 Like if if you're wanting the podium, you might want to go 332 00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:15,640 with this. And at the time, I was telling 333 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:19,840 myself that a finish like that was definitely possible for me 334 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:23,200 if I could just run Boston, right? 335 00:19:24,160 --> 00:19:25,800 That's kind of the beauty of Boston. 336 00:19:25,800 --> 00:19:29,320 And then I see Zu Herron and Charles go with it and like, 337 00:19:29,320 --> 00:19:33,880 well, this feels pretty fast, but I'm going to go for it 338 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:36,360 because I want to be, I want to be where they are. 339 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,240 This episode of the City Smack podcast is supported by Wahoo. 340 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:45,600 You've got 26.2 miles of work. Heartbreak Hill, The Newton 341 00:19:45,600 --> 00:19:50,600 Hills, that long grinding stretch from mile 16 to 20. 342 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:54,000 You've studied the course. You've circled the date on the 343 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:56,040 calendar. You've sacrificed the early 344 00:19:56,040 --> 00:19:59,320 mornings for long runs. You've sacrificed your social 345 00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,560 plans. You've put in the work. 346 00:20:00,840 --> 00:20:05,120 But there's a difference between knowing a course and knowing a 347 00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:08,480 course. Have you felt the gradient shift 348 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,440 under your feet? Have you practice holding your 349 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,320 pace when the hill doesn't care about your goal time? 350 00:20:13,720 --> 00:20:17,680 With the Wahoo Kicker Run, you can simulate the exact Boston or 351 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,800 London Marathon course right in your own home. 352 00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:24,960 Upload the GPX file into the Wahoo app and the kicker runs 353 00:20:24,960 --> 00:20:27,640 automatic grade control. Adjust your incline in real 354 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,560 time, mile by mile, climb by climb, descent by descent. 355 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,960 Exactly as it would feel when it matters most. 356 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,640 That's race day. Every hill rehearsed, every 357 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:38,680 crucial on course moment practice. 358 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:42,480 No guessing at all. That's not just training, that's 359 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,960 race specific preparation. And the kicker run doesn't stop 360 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:47,320 there. You've also got the Run Free 361 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:50,440 mode, which uses sensors to automatically match the belt 362 00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:54,040 speed to your stride. No buttons, no interruptions, no 363 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:56,600 breaking or flow. You're not managing a machine in 364 00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:59,440 that moment, you're just running the way running is supposed to 365 00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:02,120 feel. Connect to Zwift for immersive 366 00:21:02,120 --> 00:21:05,680 course accurate visuals that put you on the road, or stay in the 367 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,600 Wahoo app for structured workouts and seamless tracking. 368 00:21:08,760 --> 00:21:11,480 The Kicker Run works with the platforms that you already love, 369 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:14,440 whether that's Zwift, Peloton, Ketomap, and more. 370 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,960 And right now, when you use Code Sidious at checkout, you'll get 371 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:20,480 a free Kicker Headwind Smart Fan. 372 00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,680 That's the fan that responds to your effort in real time, 373 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,720 speeding up as your heart rate climbs and your pace pushes 374 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:31,160 harder over 30 mph of airflow, keeping you cool through every 375 00:21:31,160 --> 00:21:34,320 brutal interval and every long run simulation. 376 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,000 The Wahoo Kicker run because race day shouldn't be the first 377 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:41,760 time that you've run the course. Check it out today at 378 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,160 wahoofitness.com and use code SIDIOUS at checkout for that 379 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:50,320 free Kicker headwind smart fan. Many thanks to Wahoo for coming 380 00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,200 back on as a sponsor of the Sidious Mag Podcast. 381 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,800 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is presented by 382 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,080 Lollipop. Because of course it is. 383 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,480 I feel like everywhere I look lately I'm seeing Lollipop. 384 00:22:06,480 --> 00:22:08,400 It's on all of my favorite shows. 385 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,560 I saw it on Traitors when the contestants were sitting around 386 00:22:11,560 --> 00:22:14,480 the mansion trying to decide who to vanish at the Round Table. 387 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,320 It pops up in episodes of Shrinking on Apple TV, and it 388 00:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,400 even had a moment in The Housemaid starring Sidney 389 00:22:22,400 --> 00:22:24,240 Sweeney. You've seen it all over our 390 00:22:24,240 --> 00:22:27,480 shows now for a couple years. Basically, Lollipop is 391 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:29,600 everywhere right now and I totally get why. 392 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:33,960 My current favorite flavor when people ask is tropical punch and 393 00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:36,520 it tastes like a vacation in a can. 394 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:40,000 I need that right now with how brutal this East Coast winter 395 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,320 has been. It's got the perfect balance of 396 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:45,040 pineapple, passion fruit, Mandarin and apple, so you get 397 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:48,560 that nostalgic fruit punch flavor, but way more crisp and 398 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:51,680 way more refreshing. And Lollipop isn't just about 399 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:54,440 great taste. Every can contains their Ollie 400 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:57,320 Smart Blend, which includes ingredients designed to support 401 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,480 digestive health and help feed your gut microbiome. 402 00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,440 So you get the fun, nostalgic soda experience, but with 403 00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:06,080 ingredients your body actually appreciates. 404 00:23:06,360 --> 00:23:10,400 They've got 19 different core flavors, each one with its own 405 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,400 personality, but Tropical Punch is the one I keep reaching for. 406 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:17,320 I genuinely drink one almost every day and I can feel the 407 00:23:17,320 --> 00:23:20,320 difference when I don't. If you haven't had Lollipop yet, 408 00:23:20,320 --> 00:23:22,800 grab a can and see what the hype is all about. 409 00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:26,320 Trust me, your taste buds and your gut will both be happy. 410 00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:30,400 The best deal on the Internet for Lollipop is 25% off for 411 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,160 Citius Mag podcast listeners. We love it when our listeners 412 00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:34,600 tag us in their stories with them. 413 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,760 Support them because they support us. 414 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:42,000 Citius 25 at checkout for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 415 00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:46,400 That's Citius 25 for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 416 00:23:47,040 --> 00:23:50,320 I cannot believe how strong our partnership with Lollipop has 417 00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:52,320 been over the years. We're going to keep this thing 418 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,160 going. We've made it the runner's soda. 419 00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,760 The camera follows John, who's up in the front. 420 00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:05,640 And we don't get to see just sort of how some of the rest of 421 00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:08,640 that race unfolds behind him once he starts to pull away. 422 00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:11,440 And maybe we see glimpses of like, Benson Capruto. 423 00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,040 But from there, I guess, yeah, take me through just sort of, 424 00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:18,440 you know, trying to follow Zuhair and Charles. 425 00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,000 How long did that last? That lasted pretty much up until 426 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:27,120 the 1st Newton Hill. And then quickly I realized I 427 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:31,720 was a bit in over my head and I ended up running up the hills a 428 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:35,480 little bit slower, which is funny to say that like I was 429 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,600 recovering up the Newton Hills, but I, I really was, I was like, 430 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,160 this is the time to reset. And then once I get through 431 00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:44,680 these, I'm going to try to start reeling in these guys because I 432 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,800 feel like in the past I've been reeling in guys for the, my, my 433 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,560 last few marathons. I didn't end up reeling in 434 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:54,480 anybody, but it helped because I, I was, I was struggling 435 00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:59,120 around like mile 18 was when it, it was mentally the toughest for 436 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:01,480 me for sure. Yeah, So what are you telling 437 00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:04,120 yourself in mile 18? They're going to come back, 438 00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,520 they're going to come back and you're still on a great pace. 439 00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,840 Those final miles of Boston, that's typically sort of in the 440 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,280 past where there's just been so much carnage and you know, 441 00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:19,920 people do end up coming back. This year just sort of even 442 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:23,240 looking at the splits, it was like the places just kind of 443 00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:27,320 held maybe on Boylston there were there would be some people 444 00:25:27,320 --> 00:25:31,680 within reach, but no one really kind of shifted positions after 445 00:25:31,680 --> 00:25:34,360 that. I think it kind of spread out 446 00:25:34,360 --> 00:25:38,680 and then it slowly, the people that went with the move longer 447 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:42,760 maybe died a little harder. And so then we ended up clumping 448 00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:44,520 back up. But it wasn't quite to the point 449 00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:48,040 where I could catch those people in front of me. 450 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:53,240 I'd say, like position 6 through 14 were like shockingly close. 451 00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:55,440 Yeah. I didn't realize how close 452 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:57,120 together everybody was at the end there. 453 00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,680 And The thing is, is like, not everyone had, you know, covered 454 00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:02,680 the same moves that run together, like in in those 455 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,720 spots, 'cause I guess I, I just finished chatting with Rory. 456 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,320 And what he told me was just sort of that, yeah, he'd been, 457 00:26:09,320 --> 00:26:14,080 once he started to slowly start to die, he wasn't moving, making 458 00:26:14,080 --> 00:26:16,560 forward progress. And there came a point where it 459 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:20,000 was you and Clayton, I think kind of like ran up on him. 460 00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:22,400 He said, he said someone clipped me. 461 00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:23,640 But he was like, it's all in good fun. 462 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:27,360 He was like it was he was like I tried to hold it together and go 463 00:26:27,360 --> 00:26:29,040 with them and I and I just couldn't. 464 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,840 So I guess take me through just sort of that part of the race 465 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,800 where, you know, kind of poetically, like Clayton did 466 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:40,160 just post about it. I think that the the video clip, 467 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,240 but it was kind of a full circle moment where it's like you paste 468 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:47,600 Clayton to the two O 8 in Chicago and you know, then you I 469 00:26:47,600 --> 00:26:50,680 think, kind of reposted saying it that that was one of the most 470 00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:54,960 fun days of of your career. 1st I'll I'll fess up and say I 471 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:56,440 clipped Rory there. It was you. 472 00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:59,600 I still haven't messaged him about it. 473 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:01,040 I'll probably do that after this. 474 00:27:02,000 --> 00:27:05,240 But yeah, Rory and I get along well. 475 00:27:05,240 --> 00:27:09,400 So yeah, I'm. I'm sure he knows it was me, but 476 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:10,560 yeah. When Yeah, yeah. 477 00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:13,600 So I guess like with, with running with Clayton, I mean, 478 00:27:14,040 --> 00:27:17,360 when you had that pace job, that is before you'd even run a 479 00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:21,040 marathon yourself, and now you just run, you know, 2O5 in 480 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:24,440 Boston when someone asks like, what was the most fun day of 481 00:27:24,440 --> 00:27:27,240 your running career? Is this the new answer to that 482 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:31,280 question? For sure, I feel like after my 483 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,040 first marathon, I I turned and told my coach and my agent I'm 484 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,680 like, that's the most fun day of my career. 485 00:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,320 Right There was was my debut and then Boston was more fun than 486 00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:44,760 that. And then it just keeps getting 487 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:47,680 better. So I I love the experience of 488 00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,360 the world major marathons. I'm sure eventually in my career 489 00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:55,120 I'll get to do some some other marathons. 490 00:27:55,120 --> 00:27:59,120 But right now, like that's the plan is just to keep competing 491 00:27:59,120 --> 00:28:02,160 at these things. It, it, it's pretty special just 492 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,040 to it's a little different, but I think of marathoning a bit 493 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,880 like cross country where if you really want to compare yourself, 494 00:28:09,880 --> 00:28:14,160 like clocks can be a little different depending on the 495 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,760 marathon. And obviously in Boston, the 496 00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:19,640 weather conditions. It's a big thing to me to come 497 00:28:19,640 --> 00:28:21,160 to these things and be a part of it. 498 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:24,920 And yeah, that was very special in 2023 when I got to be a part 499 00:28:24,920 --> 00:28:27,800 of it. Even as a pacer, I was getting 500 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:32,480 borderline emotional just how loud the crowd was, the energy 501 00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:35,760 and to be part of something special. 502 00:28:36,360 --> 00:28:41,320 At the time, Clayton running 208 felt pretty amazing for an 503 00:28:41,320 --> 00:28:44,240 American. And then obviously the the world 504 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:48,200 record was set that day as well. And yeah, just being a part of 505 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,920 that major marathon weekend, I was like, I need to get back to 506 00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:55,800 this, like, as soon as possible. And yeah, next time it was as a 507 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:58,480 racer. Has it come to you a little bit 508 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,680 as a surprise of just like how quick some of the success, you 509 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,280 know, on the roads has come? I had to go back and pull up 510 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,640 your T 1st to see just sort of like what were the times that 511 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:12,920 you graduated from Iowa State and then you know, previously at 512 00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:15,040 UT Martin with and I'm like looking at it right now in front 513 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:20,880 of me, it's like 1334 for five K, 2834 for for 10K. 514 00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,240 And I think what you had one NCAA championship appearance 515 00:29:26,840 --> 00:29:30,640 outdoors. So I guess when you were that 516 00:29:30,640 --> 00:29:35,560 was 2022, then you had the ZAP chapter of your career. 517 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,840 But to get to this point now, I guess like, could you have 518 00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,120 imagined, I guess like these leaps and jumps that you've made 519 00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:44,400 just sort of in this progression? 520 00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:48,520 Certainly it's it's just come like a piece at a time. 521 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,680 Definitely in college, I didn't think I would go on to run 205 522 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,640 in the marathon, but I've had such good momentum even ever 523 00:29:58,640 --> 00:30:00,560 since I transferred to Iowa State. 524 00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:07,040 Yeah, I ran 1334 was my collegiate 5 KPR, but the year 525 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:12,560 before that it was 14 O 7 as a as a fifth year in college, I 526 00:30:12,560 --> 00:30:16,760 was a fourteen O 7 guy. COVID, you know, allowed one 527 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,560 extra year and then all of a sudden I chopped 30 seconds off 528 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,800 of that time. So the momentum just feels like 529 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:26,440 it's continued to carry on from that that year. 530 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:30,280 And the belief in myself has increased a lot for sure. 531 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,440 I don't know if I knew I was going to run 205 this weekend. 532 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:39,880 I thought Dathan had actually said to me that like, oh, if we 533 00:30:39,880 --> 00:30:43,400 went to Valencia, you probably run 205 right now. 534 00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:49,360 But so maybe in some ways I thought like before I, I lined 535 00:30:49,360 --> 00:30:53,840 up that I was a 205 guy. But yeah, still, it's a pretty 536 00:30:53,840 --> 00:30:55,960 good progression. And yeah, we'll see. 537 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,200 I I texted some of the Iowa State guys that I'm still 538 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,080 friends with and I was like, they were congratulating me. 539 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,040 And I'm like, everything feels like it's because of Iowa State 540 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:08,160 Like that got the ball, the ball rolling. 541 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:12,760 And I've realized now that just like if I just stay consistent 542 00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:17,000 and keep that ball rolling so far, it's resulted in me just 543 00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,800 improving year on year. So yeah. 544 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:23,960 I think that that is such a good way to kind of put just looking 545 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,040 at these results because in talking to Rory, one of the 546 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:30,120 things that he said was just sort of, yeah, I mean, the 547 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:33,440 results on paper look a little puzzling because, you know, we 548 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,800 haven't seen anything like this in Boston. 549 00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,560 But he's like. But if I look at all these names 550 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:42,800 and these performances, it sort of was like a Valencia day where 551 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,960 if you would have put all these people, you know, one through 20 552 00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:49,240 on a Valencia course and you see the times and you're probably 553 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,400 would have been like, yeah, OK, like that makes sense. 554 00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,200 But just because it was Boston this time around is kind of 555 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,800 where people scratch their heads. 556 00:31:55,800 --> 00:31:58,640 Is that sort of like a similar way of you kind of like 557 00:31:58,640 --> 00:32:01,320 processing just the overall body of work that came out of this? 558 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:03,560 For sure. I don't know if Rory talked 559 00:32:03,560 --> 00:32:05,120 about. He's got this cool app. 560 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:08,000 I don't remember what it's called, but you can kind of put 561 00:32:08,000 --> 00:32:13,320 in like what time you want to run and then it'll take into 562 00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,880 account like the race day, weather and the terrain. 563 00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,640 Normally for Boston, it adds a lot because it's basing it off 564 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:23,760 of like this is ideal conditions. 565 00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:29,240 This is, you know, if you were to run a marathon on a track and 566 00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:31,800 there's zero wind or something like that. 567 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:38,120 And for Boston, it only added like 30 something seconds, which 568 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:41,400 was pretty. I, I wonder, I want to compare 569 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:44,480 that with like if you entered that for the Valencia course, 570 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:49,240 like maybe with the weather, it was kind of like a Valencia type 571 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,520 opportunity where you just see these crazy times, but. 572 00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:56,680 This was something I brought up to Amanda in conversation. 573 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:59,920 Because now everyone at this point when we're two years away 574 00:32:59,920 --> 00:33:06,560 from the 2028 Olympic Trials, less than that, you got to kind 575 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:11,520 of like start to think backwards and maybe you have two more 576 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:13,720 marathons at least between now and then. 577 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:17,880 Three kind of starts to get a little bit closer to if you just 578 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:21,480 go through the, you know, fall, spring, fall cycle. 579 00:33:21,640 --> 00:33:24,640 What is it that you kind of want to get out of this, you know, 580 00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:29,760 next, you know, almost 2 years from now until the trials in the 581 00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:31,520 next couple marathons that you want to attack? 582 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,520 Think I could run faster between now and then. 583 00:33:35,520 --> 00:33:39,800 And I mean, we'll see what next year brings. 584 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,960 Like if it's something like an American record attempt, maybe 585 00:33:42,960 --> 00:33:48,520 that would sway my hand. But I really think like, OK, for 586 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:50,600 now, I'm pretty happy with this time. 587 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:56,200 I wanna maybe go to some some marathons where the focus is 588 00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,160 more on competing and just try to get those race tactics down 589 00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:05,920 because I mean, this American field is going to be so deep at 590 00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:09,239 the 2028 trials. Obviously a lot can happen. 591 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,520 They'll probably be a few more players that come out of like 592 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:17,000 that sub contender realm and just add to it. 593 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:21,120 I mean, this, this trials is going to be pretty crazy and 594 00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,800 it's probably going to come down to some fast closing off of a 595 00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,840 fast pace. See how just trying to continue 596 00:34:27,840 --> 00:34:30,920 to work on that, those tactics and increase my chances as much 597 00:34:30,920 --> 00:34:36,719 as possible and even work on those tactics for when I make LA 598 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,159 and I, you know, I don't want to just get there. 599 00:34:40,159 --> 00:34:42,760 I want to finish as well as possible and that'll be 600 00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:45,159 championship style as well. So that's definitely the 601 00:34:45,159 --> 00:34:48,199 priority moving forward. I just had to go back and look 602 00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:50,639 and to see just sort of like 2024 trials. 603 00:34:50,639 --> 00:34:55,360 I guess this was sort of before, you know, the, you know, you ran 604 00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:59,960 New York in, in 2024. So no trials? 605 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,280 Where were you? I guess February 3rd, 2024. 606 00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:08,680 So I, I was there watching, I had a few teammates running in 607 00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:13,560 it, but I'd actually tried to qualify and I failed. 608 00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:19,240 I was trying to sneak in debut at the trials, so I was going to 609 00:35:19,240 --> 00:35:24,040 get in a little low key half. The Chicago pacing job was kind 610 00:35:24,040 --> 00:35:27,280 of like a last minute decision and I ended up going 30K that 611 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:31,200 day, which was longer than I was supposed to go according to my 612 00:35:31,200 --> 00:35:34,440 coach. But you know, I I pushed it a 613 00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:40,040 little bit and had some fun and I came off of that and felt 614 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:43,480 good, but it got a little sick and it was like 2 weeks before 615 00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:46,120 my half that we put on the calendar. 616 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:48,600 I'm looking at it now, the indie monumental half, right? 617 00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:55,880 Yeah, I ran like 6317, I think, and I failed to qualify for the 618 00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:58,520 Olympic Trials. So yeah, couldn't even make it 619 00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:01,320 to the starting line for my debut marathon. 620 00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:04,040 So that that delayed the debut a little bit. 621 00:36:04,200 --> 00:36:06,520 Who was the first person, I guess, to start to plant the 622 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,360 seeds that, like the marathon, would be, you know, your event? 623 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:14,240 Pretty much always been told that definitely when I was 624 00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:17,000 joining ZAP, I was like, I'm going to eventually be a 625 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:20,560 marathoner. But I said the classic line that 626 00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:23,640 I think every college guy says out of college, I've got 627 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,280 unfinished business on the track. 628 00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:28,920 So I was a little track obsessed for a while, but I always knew 629 00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,400 I'd end up doing the marathon. I've always felt like 630 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:36,800 aerobically, that was where my ceiling was the highest. 631 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:41,200 I just put together just sort of these power rankings of, you 632 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,880 know, the US marathoning picture ahead of 2028. 633 00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:48,640 And on it, I guess like towards one of the people I left off, 634 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:52,760 just sort of it goes to top 15. And then after that it says like 635 00:36:52,760 --> 00:36:55,560 just missed the list. And I think I put like Andrew 636 00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,080 Collie in that. What is what was the biggest 637 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:01,520 thing that you learned from Andrew Collie during the ZAP 638 00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:04,200 chapter? And then I feel like he's the 639 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,320 type of guy that just when you think he's dead, he will be 640 00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:11,280 coming back and could end up popping another great 641 00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,000 performance. If Andrew was there in Boston 642 00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,800 this weekend and was ready, he'd be, he'd definitely be on that 643 00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,000 list, that's for sure. There's no doubt in my mind that 644 00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:27,000 he's not at least top ten right now and I I still think he has 645 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,960 some room to improve it. The marathon is interesting 646 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:35,000 'cause I mean, I've gotten a few now, but opportunities are so 647 00:37:35,280 --> 00:37:38,640 limited because you can't really, there's a few people 648 00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:41,400 that sneak in a couple more, but you're really running two a 649 00:37:41,400 --> 00:37:43,720 year. And that's what he tries to do. 650 00:37:43,720 --> 00:37:48,320 And I think sometimes you just have to be at the right course 651 00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:50,920 on the right day to run the time. 652 00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:57,840 And he's had some unfortunate marathons where it just like 653 00:37:57,880 --> 00:38:02,320 fell apart at the end. But I, I told him talk to him on 654 00:38:02,320 --> 00:38:05,760 the phone after my race a little bit. 655 00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:07,840 And I was like, your day is coming. 656 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:10,440 Like, I'm sure you wanted to be out there this weekend. 657 00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:13,280 But yeah, definitely do not sleep on Andrew Collie. 658 00:38:13,800 --> 00:38:18,320 He'll be ready in 2028. I I could count on that. 659 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:22,040 Yeah, I'll, I'll be revising this list as the as the next 660 00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:25,280 couple months come along. And he's definitely one of those 661 00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,160 people who I'm like, I'm making a mistake just kind of bumping 662 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:30,280 him off for now. But hey, sometimes some people 663 00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,960 need that that chip on their shoulder to for the extra little 664 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:37,040 bit of fuel. One thing that just, I guess 665 00:38:37,040 --> 00:38:40,840 caught my ear as you were mentioning was sort of like in a 666 00:38:40,840 --> 00:38:43,800 potential American record attempt, if that lines up in 667 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,480 your schedule. I mean, after Connor just ran 668 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,800 what he ran in October, where does sort of that confidence 669 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,680 come from in your sort of own self belief that, hey, like on 670 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:56,840 the right day I can also probably do that? 671 00:38:57,240 --> 00:39:00,600 I think that on the right day, there's a handful of people that 672 00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:03,880 could go for what the American record is right now. 673 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,480 You do have to kind of have everything go right on the day, 674 00:39:08,480 --> 00:39:13,320 I think, or at least for me. But yeah, I'm not saying that I 675 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:18,080 could get it right now, but at this point it's like, why? 676 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:21,200 Why would I assume that the the ball stops rolling here? 677 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,960 You know, I've got a treat it like there's there's not a 678 00:39:26,960 --> 00:39:29,680 limit. You just have to continue to put 679 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:32,720 in the work and and not count yourself out. 680 00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:38,560 So yeah, I just threw that out there as like, you know, maybe 681 00:39:38,560 --> 00:39:41,040 in 2027, like I take it even bigger step. 682 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:44,400 Maybe in the fall I take a a big step from the spring. 683 00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:47,080 You never know when those breakthroughs happen. 684 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:51,440 We went through what Dathan said before the race, but what did 685 00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:53,800 Dathan and Laura say after the race? 686 00:39:54,040 --> 00:39:57,120 Yeah, they were overall pretty pumped. 687 00:39:57,440 --> 00:40:01,560 I thought they'd be a little bit more mad at me for like just 688 00:40:01,560 --> 00:40:04,440 running the first half. As aggressive as I did. 689 00:40:04,440 --> 00:40:07,280 But no, they were, they were like, you know, you didn't run 690 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:11,880 that perfect, but you ran it in a way and you competed in a way 691 00:40:11,880 --> 00:40:16,040 that it was like, that's going to bode really well for the 692 00:40:16,040 --> 00:40:20,040 trials. And just telling us that you're 693 00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:24,640 ceiling is perhaps much faster than maybe we even thought when 694 00:40:24,640 --> 00:40:28,960 we originally recruited you. So it was pretty positive stuff. 695 00:40:28,960 --> 00:40:31,800 And yeah, it got me pretty psyched for the future. 696 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,800 I mean, really, when you think about it, I've been training 697 00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:39,760 with Dathan for half a year and I feel like we this second 698 00:40:39,760 --> 00:40:43,600 build's gone so much better. Interested to see what like a 699 00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:47,400 couple years in a program, which I, I think you need at least a 700 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:51,680 year to fully kind of get some of the new adaptations that come 701 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,280 with some changes in training. So interested to see what the 702 00:40:55,280 --> 00:41:00,480 next year or so brings. After this weekend, I'm kind of 703 00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:04,640 looking at the results from this, but they're probably 704 00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:10,560 because of how fast you and Joe ran surpassing Dathan's PR, that 705 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,520 there aren't too many marathon coaches in the US now who have a 706 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:19,520 faster PR than their athletes. Yeah, I mean, maybe some of 707 00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,480 those coaches, if they had the the shoes that we were wearing, 708 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,720 that's true. They'd run pretty quick. 709 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:30,440 You know, at this point, I feel like our shoes keep getting 710 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,680 better. Like even there is the Super 711 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,960 shoe era and now I think super shoes are even better than super 712 00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:43,720 shoes a few years ago. I like F1 and I kind of look at 713 00:41:43,720 --> 00:41:47,600 it like car development, like it's, it's just the aspect of 714 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:52,080 the the sport and yeah, it's cool to be a part of it. 715 00:41:52,360 --> 00:41:54,440 All right. I guess R.E.M, my final question 716 00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:59,080 is with you having, you know, spent some a ton of time around 717 00:41:59,240 --> 00:42:01,760 Helen, what can we expect this weekend? 718 00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:06,240 I don't want to reveal too much, but she's fit. 719 00:42:07,360 --> 00:42:09,400 I'm sure that's not a shock to anybody. 720 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:14,080 But yeah, I'm very excited. I'm, I'm pumped. 721 00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:17,600 I, you know, it's at a weird time because it's in London, but 722 00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,480 I'm on break. Who cares? 723 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,600 Like I'm, I will not be able to sleep. 724 00:42:21,640 --> 00:42:24,560 You know, I'm, I'll be up and watching. 725 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,040 So yeah, I'm very excited to see what she does. 726 00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:30,840 I think I think she's ready to run something pretty fast. 727 00:42:31,200 --> 00:42:35,280 Well, Ryan, appreciate you taking the time to reflect on 728 00:42:35,360 --> 00:42:38,200 this Boston performance. You've got a lot of people now 729 00:42:38,200 --> 00:42:43,840 who are certainly, you know, paying way more attention to you 730 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:47,840 and just sort of in the lead up to your next marathon, the 28 731 00:42:47,840 --> 00:42:50,800 trials. And so best of luck with all of 732 00:42:50,800 --> 00:42:55,800 the training ahead and excited to see more good things later 733 00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:58,280 this year. Yeah, thanks for taking the time 734 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:02,240 to chat with me. I love talking, running, so love 735 00:43:02,240 --> 00:43:05,080 to be on the the podcast whenever you you'd have me. 736 00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:08,720 Yeah, it's been fun. Alright, that's a wrap on 737 00:43:08,720 --> 00:43:10,960 today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the 738 00:43:10,960 --> 00:43:13,960 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 739 00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:17,040 routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer 740 00:43:17,040 --> 00:43:19,880 Jasmine Fair and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make 741 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:21,600 the Sidious Magic Podcast happen. 742 00:43:22,040 --> 00:43:24,040 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 743 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:27,960 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 744 00:43:27,960 --> 00:43:29,800 read every single one. You can find 745 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,640 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 746 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:35,200 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 747 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,520 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.