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I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 46 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,240 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 47 00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,200 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 48 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,520 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 49 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,040 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 50 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:37,280 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:40,320 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 52 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:44,120 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 53 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:47,080 anywhere else. So let's get into it because we 54 00:02:47,080 --> 00:02:48,640 love track and. Field. 55 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:53,200 My guest for today's episode is Rory Linkletter, the Canadian 56 00:02:53,200 --> 00:02:56,600 Olympian Co host of the Out and Back podcast, and one of the 57 00:02:56,960 --> 00:03:00,440 most analytically sharp pro voices in the sport right now. 58 00:03:01,040 --> 00:03:06,040 At the 2026 Boston Marathon, he ran 2O6O4 for 14th place overall 59 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,720 and the second fastest marathon in Canadian history. 60 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,080 This also probably puts him up there among the fastest 61 00:03:12,080 --> 00:03:15,520 Youtubers. He came in off of the best build 62 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:18,160 of his career. He put together 2 sub 60 minute 63 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:21,480 half marathons, workouts that never said no, and he went out 64 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,680 with the lead pack convinced that anything was possible. 65 00:03:24,800 --> 00:03:27,400 And that's when the bill came due. 66 00:03:27,640 --> 00:03:30,600 In this conversation, Rory walks us through the moment the race 67 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:34,680 turned the internal negotiation of the final nine miles, the 68 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,680 hamstring that seized up on Boylston, and what he took from 69 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:41,000 watching Clayton Young and Ryan Ford fly past him on 70 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,360 Commonwealth Ave. But we also get Rory in full 71 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:47,880 pundit mode as to how to actually read the Boston 72 00:03:47,880 --> 00:03:52,320 Marathon results in the context of 2028, why he thinks Zuhair 73 00:03:52,320 --> 00:03:55,200 Talbi was operating on a different level than everyone 74 00:03:55,200 --> 00:03:59,120 around him, and his declaration that John Career is the best 75 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:01,000 marathoner in the world right now. 76 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:05,200 He's also got a take on the Scott Faubel Super Shoes debate, 77 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:07,560 which we touched on in our episode with Clinton Young. 78 00:04:08,080 --> 00:04:11,440 And of course, he's in agreement with me that the 2028 US Olympic 79 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,280 Marathon Trials will be the craziest in modern history. 80 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,720 He also talks us through the fact that he's got the Ottawa 81 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:18,600 Marathon in five weeks, where he's going to go in with a 82 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,160 simple mandate of run less with heart and more with the head. 83 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,960 So without further ado, here is Rory Linklater. 84 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:41,600 All right now welcome on Rory Linkletter, fresh off of a 2O6O4 85 00:04:41,720 --> 00:04:47,000 at the Boston Marathon. Top Canadian and 14th place 86 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:51,240 overall, and maybe top podcaster probably in the whole field. 87 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:55,720 I can't confirm if anyone in front of me has a podcast. 88 00:04:55,720 --> 00:04:58,240 Let me run through the numbers in my brain. 89 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:00,600 I don't think there's any podcasters in front of me, so 90 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:02,640 that maybe I will be. I'll take that title. 91 00:05:03,280 --> 00:05:04,760 I'm looking at this right now, Yeah, yeah. 92 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:09,000 Unless Charles Hicks, he's a more of a YouTube vlogger right 93 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,200 then. Yeah, yeah, he's, I definitely 94 00:05:11,200 --> 00:05:14,680 didn't win the YouTube title. That was a tough podium this 95 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:16,160 year. It was a it was a good, good 96 00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:19,560 field of. Of YouTube posters and then John 97 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:22,600 career hasn't launched any sort of podcast to my knowledge 98 00:05:22,600 --> 00:05:26,040 whatsoever. But Rory, I guess let's start 99 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:30,480 off with just sort of overall feelings on the day because I 100 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:35,760 guess, oh, you know, I saw you briefly on Monday and yes, it 101 00:05:35,760 --> 00:05:39,560 was APB, but also at the same time, like you're just like I 102 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:44,040 wishing for a better day. So how have the the feelings 103 00:05:44,320 --> 00:05:47,560 changed over the last, you know, couple days or how have you 104 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:50,440 processed it? Yeah, it's been a big one to 105 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:52,680 like. I think as more time goes on, 106 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:57,080 I'm going to be more proud and I'm going to continue to be able 107 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,360 to take the wins where they are. And there's definitely some wins 108 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:04,080 in there. There's definitely parts of me 109 00:06:04,080 --> 00:06:07,880 that in hindsight can be like, ah man, if I would have done 110 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:10,760 this differently, maybe this result shifts here. 111 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:13,400 That was a awesome race to be a part of. 112 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,800 First off, what a crazy day and what an awesome way for the 113 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:22,240 marathon that we all kind of put on this like pedestal of like 114 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,120 being one of the best shows in the business. 115 00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:27,840 It delivered better than it ever has before. 116 00:06:27,840 --> 00:06:30,840 And I was, you know, when my career is over, I don't think 117 00:06:30,840 --> 00:06:34,440 I'll talk about the 2026 marathon is Boston Marathon is 118 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:37,920 my greatest hit of all time, but I was a part of one of the 119 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:39,840 greatest hits of all time in the sport. 120 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:42,600 So there's going to be a lot of people trying to make sense of 121 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:48,840 these results and trying to put it into context somehow and 122 00:06:48,840 --> 00:06:52,280 maybe even devalue them in a lot of ways, kind of like how 123 00:06:52,280 --> 00:06:56,440 they've done in retrospect to the Ryan Hall 2O four and what 124 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:58,480 not. But I just think, I just think 125 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:03,200 when everything goes the way it does on this last Monday, you 126 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:06,520 just get a special day. You get a day where nobody died 127 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:08,240 really. There's a few drops, but 128 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,520 everybody kind of made it. Everybody held on really well. 129 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:16,600 Everybody ran fast and it was historic. 130 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:20,000 And the field when it was released showed that it was 131 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,280 going to be historic, right? Like I looked at that and I was 132 00:07:22,280 --> 00:07:24,400 like, dude, this is going to be like one of the hardest majors 133 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,920 ever to get top 10 in. Just just sheer numbers, just 134 00:07:27,920 --> 00:07:30,960 depth and quality of talent. Like they brought in the big 135 00:07:30,960 --> 00:07:35,880 hitters with guys like Alphonse, world champ John Career, who I 136 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,280 think is the best in the world right now. 137 00:07:37,280 --> 00:07:40,760 And then you know, Benson Caputo, if there's someone that 138 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,120 is unsung hero on the circuit, it might be that guy. 139 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:47,520 He wins everything. So he's he's a super stud. 140 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:50,240 So I think he's gotten second at a bunch of majors and he's won 141 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:54,120 three. You I guess came in feeling the 142 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:59,320 fittest, most confident in your life with I guess dreams of 143 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:03,800 trying to run up with some of those guys what walk me through 144 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:08,120 I guess like what that pre race belief actually felt like on 145 00:08:08,120 --> 00:08:11,240 race morning. It was intoxicating and 146 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:14,000 honestly, it might have been my my downfall in some ways. 147 00:08:14,280 --> 00:08:18,080 I felt invincible in a lot of ways because of how training 148 00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:20,000 went. There wasn't a workout in the 149 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,120 build where I asked myself to do something in training and my 150 00:08:23,120 --> 00:08:25,480 body said no. My body was just like, Yep, we 151 00:08:25,480 --> 00:08:28,040 can do that. That's that's possible. 152 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:30,800 And whether it be splits I was trying to hit and workouts or, 153 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,919 you know, the New York half or the Houston half, I had so many 154 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:37,640 positive feedback moments throughout the build that I was 155 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,600 riding this immense high. And I think that that was a 156 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,200 really fun way to come into Boston. 157 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:46,160 But it it made it really hard when the race got hard because I 158 00:08:46,160 --> 00:08:50,480 was like, damn it, this is not the dream come true moment that 159 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:54,040 I kind of, you know, envisioned for myself. 160 00:08:55,080 --> 00:09:00,160 But I was running with like basically fire coming out of my 161 00:09:00,160 --> 00:09:03,920 ass in the in the first half half of the race just because I 162 00:09:03,920 --> 00:09:07,880 was so excited about everything. And maybe that's the lesson here 163 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:13,840 is, is you can't run 26.2 miles with like that much passion and 164 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,240 energy. I probably needed to take some 165 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:21,320 settle down juice before the race and be a little bit more 166 00:09:21,320 --> 00:09:24,800 mild mannered. But at the same time, man, is 167 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,280 this the first time I've ever gone into a race like this 168 00:09:27,280 --> 00:09:29,480 thinking that anything was possible. 169 00:09:29,800 --> 00:09:33,080 And that's a weird thing to wrap my head around. 170 00:09:33,080 --> 00:09:36,160 And I haven't spoken to Conor Mance since the race, but I 171 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:38,560 spoke to him before and I know him really well. 172 00:09:38,560 --> 00:09:41,040 And I remember, do you remember when he went out with like the 173 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,880 Kipchogi group and was hammering and then cracked like so hard? 174 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,680 Like it was the worst marathon of his career, but like, still 175 00:09:47,680 --> 00:09:50,600 pretty awesome. Yeah, 2023, yeah. 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,400 Yeah, I think that that that's what Monday was for me. 177 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:57,800 Like that would be equivalent. I didn't black out under the 178 00:09:57,800 --> 00:10:01,360 under the final tunnel like he did and like see like like not 179 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:02,560 remember the last bit of the race. 180 00:10:02,560 --> 00:10:06,920 But like, I think the way he felt going into that Boston and 181 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,880 the way I felt going into this, it was kind of the first time in 182 00:10:09,880 --> 00:10:12,480 both of our careers where we thought everything was on the 183 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:15,880 table and we ran like that and kind of paid for it. 184 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:20,240 And so that's that's my big take away right now is that this was 185 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:24,520 the first time I've believed I could, you know, go to battle 186 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,720 with the best of the best and a little bit of a humble pie 187 00:10:28,720 --> 00:10:31,160 coming off of it. But also like just perspective. 188 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:36,040 How did it compare to before Chicago last year, because even 189 00:10:36,040 --> 00:10:38,880 I just remember there was a little bit of confidence that 190 00:10:38,880 --> 00:10:41,760 you were projecting on the stage at the pre race press conference 191 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,720 when there's a lot of attention with Connor going after the 192 00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:46,440 American record and you kind of made it known. 193 00:10:46,440 --> 00:10:48,680 I was like, well, actually, no, like the North American record 194 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:51,080 is what we're both kind of racing for here. 195 00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:55,760 And you know, was that as so pre race Chicago versus pre race 196 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,000 Rory in Boston? How different were they? 197 00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,160 I think it's substantially honestly, I was confident in 198 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:05,120 Chicago that I was in PPB shape and I had a chance at the 199 00:11:05,120 --> 00:11:07,040 record. But even then I was like, I 200 00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:11,600 think I can get this two O 536, but I need things to go right 201 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,920 like I needed to. I need things to line up for me. 202 00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:16,920 That training block was different than this one. 203 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:21,200 That one I remember having workouts on paper where I, I 204 00:11:21,240 --> 00:11:24,320 would go for a certain split or certain distance on Lake Mary 205 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:28,400 Rd. and have to have to adjust my goals mid workout and change 206 00:11:28,400 --> 00:11:31,200 the change the the objective of that workout. 207 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:33,600 Where is this build? Every time I set out to do 208 00:11:33,600 --> 00:11:36,960 something, I just did it in training and I was definitely 209 00:11:36,960 --> 00:11:39,280 more confident in my fitness, especially coming off those 210 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,920 halves because I'd never run a 60 minute half before this 211 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:45,360 build. And I did it twice. 212 00:11:45,640 --> 00:11:50,120 I ran 60 flat in New York. I ran 5949 in Houston and in 213 00:11:50,120 --> 00:11:52,280 Houston I wasn't even, I didn't even think I was in good shape 214 00:11:52,280 --> 00:11:54,200 yet. Like I, that was the most I've 215 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:58,280 surprised myself other than maybe Boston last year in terms 216 00:11:58,280 --> 00:12:01,720 of like where I thought I was and where I landed. 217 00:12:01,960 --> 00:12:04,760 I just kind of was like, whoa, that kind of pulled something 218 00:12:04,760 --> 00:12:08,200 out that I wasn't fully ready for. 219 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,960 And so, yeah, it's just this was different. 220 00:12:11,960 --> 00:12:13,720 This was a different level of confidence. 221 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:17,960 I'm always going to be a guy that runs with confidence 222 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:19,560 because I think that's my personality. 223 00:12:19,560 --> 00:12:21,760 That's how I thrive. And there's always varying 224 00:12:21,760 --> 00:12:24,400 levels of confidence. But this one was was the kind of 225 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:28,560 confidence where I knew my worst day was still going to be us a 226 00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:30,880 good one. And that's what I don't think 227 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:32,960 this was my worst day by any means. 228 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,600 Like there's so many ways a marathon can go worse, but I 229 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:39,720 didn't think there was a chance I was going to DNF or run some 230 00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:42,640 like implode out there. I knew I was strong enough to 231 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:46,360 take risks and still run probably my fastest time ever. 232 00:12:46,360 --> 00:12:48,840 Especially once I saw the course conditions, I was like, I was 233 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,560 like, man, I'm I'm breaking two O 649 when I ran in Chicago. 234 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:56,080 It's just by how much? What was the first sense on 235 00:12:56,080 --> 00:13:00,080 Monday where you felt like it wasn't necessarily going to be 236 00:13:00,080 --> 00:13:01,680 the day that you were hoping for? 237 00:13:01,680 --> 00:13:04,880 When I caught you, I guess at the bar afterwards, you said it 238 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:08,240 was like, well, you know, covering was in Mingesh's move. 239 00:13:08,320 --> 00:13:10,960 That like kind of took a little bit of the gas out of you. 240 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:15,800 Lenny Burhanu, he made the first of like the the the the moves 241 00:13:15,800 --> 00:13:19,720 that changed the race. He went through Wellesley and 242 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:23,720 through the 20K bottle station like took off like he was gone. 243 00:13:23,720 --> 00:13:28,400 And John career like flew by me like 1,000,000 miles an hour. 244 00:13:28,520 --> 00:13:31,960 Like I'm not letting a gap form. You know, John was thinking one 245 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,880 thing and one thing only. Like it, this guy can't get 246 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:36,120 away. And so I was like, OK, this is 247 00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:38,840 once I saw John go, I was like, this is real. 248 00:13:39,080 --> 00:13:43,520 And so I kind of tried to follow John as as as wisely as I could, 249 00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:48,200 because obviously that guy's got a range of tools that I know on 250 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:52,640 my best day, I still can't fully commit to the same type of stuff 251 00:13:52,640 --> 00:13:54,600 he can do. But I was like, hey, if I can 252 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,640 cover this move and get up there with him as smoothly as 253 00:13:57,640 --> 00:13:59,600 possible, that's that's the best play. 254 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:03,920 So I bridge the gap. And I remember I took like two 255 00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,200 or three miles to fully regroup at that point. 256 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:12,280 So the Burano move really splintered everything from our 257 00:14:12,280 --> 00:14:19,640 pack was 1718 guys at halfway to by 25 Ki think we were down to 258 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:22,400 like 7 or 8 and it was really splintered and I was in that 259 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,280 pack of seven or eight. It was me, Charles Hicks, 260 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:29,880 Richard Ringer, Zuhair Talbi, and then I think Benson, 261 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:36,600 Alphonse, Tabelo and John. Like I think that that was the 262 00:14:36,600 --> 00:14:39,040 group at one point, like we grouped up again and I was like 263 00:14:39,040 --> 00:14:42,400 whoa, this is going perfect. I am in the group that I want to 264 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,440 be in. Like we've totally, I was like, 265 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:49,160 we've eliminated people in this move and but I, it didn't 266 00:14:49,160 --> 00:14:51,760 settle. It just kept gas, gas, gas. 267 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,200 And then I, I kept trying to re up like commit, commit, commit 268 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,720 because I was confident that I wasn't going to die out there. 269 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:03,040 And then like a mile or two later I was like, oh shit like 270 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:04,680 this, this is, this is different. 271 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:08,120 This is unlike anything I've ever done in terms of the 272 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:10,120 intensity. I've had to run out for a 273 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,680 sustained period of time. This is late in a marathon, and 274 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,920 we don't think it was halfway as late, But once you've been 275 00:15:15,920 --> 00:15:19,480 running for over an hour, any sort of sustained effort like 276 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:23,480 that at paces like that is going to take a lot of sting out of 277 00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,000 you. And I turned right at the 278 00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,480 Firehouse, and that was when I kind of had to start letting a 279 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,960 lot of people go. But I was still kind of 280 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:33,640 pressing. I was still leaning into it. 281 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:38,640 And I, I was just losing ground. And there was, I knew there was 282 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,520 a string of people that didn't commit to that move that I 283 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:43,000 committed to that were chasing me. 284 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,520 And I was starting to run like, oh shit, I'm going to be in, in, 285 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:50,000 in a lot of trouble here because of the, the people that are 286 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,080 chasing me. And I just ran like with a lot 287 00:15:54,080 --> 00:15:58,440 of I guess aggression still through Newton trying to get 288 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,160 separation and keep those guys up the road in in the line of 289 00:16:02,160 --> 00:16:04,400 sight. But they were ripping and and it 290 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:09,080 just like I slowly like bled out and and my legs just went darker 291 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,000 and darker as the miles progressed. 292 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:15,440 Yeah, I think in on Twitter you noted that like after mile 17, 293 00:16:15,560 --> 00:16:19,760 you wrote that you could scratch and claw your way to a day that 294 00:16:19,760 --> 00:16:22,720 you could still be proud of. So what does that internal 295 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:26,400 negotiation look like in real time when you're still like 296 00:16:27,280 --> 00:16:30,120 about 10 miles away from the finish line and everything is 297 00:16:30,120 --> 00:16:34,080 falling apart? Well, last year I was in like 298 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:39,160 11th place at heartbreak and caught 5 people in the last four 299 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:41,840 or five miles. And so I was like, oh, maybe 300 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,880 everybody's about to blow up like that could happen. 301 00:16:44,880 --> 00:16:47,280 But the, The funny thing was, is I was one of the people that was 302 00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:50,280 coming back to people instead of one of the people going up and 303 00:16:50,280 --> 00:16:53,760 getting people. So it was just a little bit of 304 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:58,120 a, a difference in the sense that I put it all on the line to 305 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:01,600 try to get to the next phase of the race without thinking about 306 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,960 the miles ahead. And yeah, I just ran with with 307 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:08,640 an aggression that I paid for late in the race. 308 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:13,200 And I, I had to keep making deals of like, OK, like if you 309 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:15,200 can just lock in, who knows what's going to happen. 310 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:16,680 Like people could still keep coming back. 311 00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:20,319 Only one person came back to me. I was kid career and I caught 312 00:17:20,319 --> 00:17:24,319 him with like 200 to go. So it wasn't like people, people 313 00:17:24,319 --> 00:17:26,280 weren't really coming back on this day. 314 00:17:26,280 --> 00:17:29,680 And that was that was the thing that was eye opening is 315 00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:33,600 everybody came to play and not a lot of people pulled the 316 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:37,480 parachute in Boston. Like I was dying at 5 minute 317 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,040 pace the last, you know, a little bit of a race. 318 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,600 That's that was like the, the, I was the slow guy on Com AV. 319 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,440 I was, I was getting rolled up running that pace. 320 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:50,760 So that was that was different because last year I was running 321 00:17:50,760 --> 00:17:52,720 that same split and catching everybody. 322 00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:58,400 I'm looking at the results in in front of me and so because the 323 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:02,360 camera obviously only follows like the leader when I see 324 00:18:02,360 --> 00:18:08,960 Clayton two O 541, Ryan Ford 2O546, Klecker 2O556, then you 325 00:18:08,960 --> 00:18:15,600 at 2O6O4, Yamane Hilah Selassie 2O6O6 and then Kip career who 326 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,960 you caught, I guess on Boylston. I mean that right there is a 327 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:22,480 pretty compressed sort of pack. What did it look like? 328 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,280 What did we miss that the cameras didn't catch? 329 00:18:25,240 --> 00:18:29,640 So coming down to Cleveland circle, right around 22 miles, 330 00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:35,600 somewhere in between 22 and 23, Ryan and Clayton, they both 331 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:37,880 actually bumped me. They were running by me so fast. 332 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,400 Like they like clipped my shoulder, not intentionally, but 333 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:44,040 like, they were like flew by me. And I was like, oh, shit. 334 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,560 Like I've this is, this is trouble. 335 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:50,840 And I like tried to be like, OK, like try to keep them in arm's 336 00:18:50,840 --> 00:18:53,240 reach because you never know what a mile later can look like. 337 00:18:53,240 --> 00:18:55,000 Like they could start coming back again. 338 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,800 But they, they flew by me and maybe 800 meters later Alex 339 00:18:59,800 --> 00:19:03,840 massage guy flies by me and I, I kept like trying to just be 340 00:19:03,840 --> 00:19:05,640 like, hey, just keep them in reach, keep them in reach. 341 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,760 Because last year I had a really good final mile of the race 342 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:12,760 where I, I was out of contention with a couple spots and then 343 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,040 just like came to life and had like a really good finish. 344 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:17,920 I was like, maybe that's possible for me again. 345 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,120 I kept trying to tell myself like, hey, you've been here 346 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:21,600 before. You've been in this like similar 347 00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:25,880 situation with guys up the road. The difference was is those guys 348 00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,040 I was chasing last year, this time they passed me. 349 00:19:28,040 --> 00:19:31,920 So it's it's hard to get past then re re recommit and catch 350 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:35,080 back up, especially with the condition I felt like my legs 351 00:19:35,080 --> 00:19:38,920 were in. But yeah, I just slowly let 352 00:19:38,920 --> 00:19:43,680 those guys form a couple seconds here, a couple seconds there and 353 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:47,320 Clecker passed me with on the Boylston turn kind of rare. 354 00:19:47,320 --> 00:19:52,480 I passed Clayton last year and Klecker says to me like, let's 355 00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:54,280 go, let's go, let's go get Kip career. 356 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,240 He's encouraging me, which was really cool and it did give me a 357 00:19:57,240 --> 00:19:59,800 little bit of extra life. I start kicking with Klecker and 358 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,360 then I'm like hip to ear flying and it looks like we're going to 359 00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:05,520 have a fun little battle. And then my hamstring just like 360 00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,120 seizes on me and I'm like, no, not not going to happen. 361 00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,360 For me. My legs are too toes to to 362 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,800 sustain like a full blown attack down Boylston. 363 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:16,920 So I had to I had to pull the shoe on myself, but I still got 364 00:20:16,920 --> 00:20:19,240 Kip career out of it. So Klecker helped me get him, 365 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,960 but the cost of it was. Slacker got me so I, I, I lost 366 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,800 at least four spots. So I, you know, 10th place was, 367 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:32,720 was in the realm of possibilities if I didn't or if 368 00:20:32,720 --> 00:20:34,720 I wasn't like hemorrhaging the way I was, right? 369 00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:38,440 So you didn't pack your tango shoes this year it seems like. 370 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:42,760 Yeah, I tango too early. I, I, I missed time to the tango 371 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:46,480 and that's, that's the, the name of the game, right? 372 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:51,960 Like, I think marathoning is really cool because the fittest 373 00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,440 guy doesn't always win the race. They do a lot of the time. 374 00:20:56,800 --> 00:21:02,200 But there's a way to, to run the marathon with like a precision 375 00:21:02,200 --> 00:21:06,960 and execution that gives you this dream of beating people 376 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:10,360 that are just better than you. And when you control for 377 00:21:10,360 --> 00:21:13,120 conditions like Boston, it becomes harder. 378 00:21:13,120 --> 00:21:16,440 And then it just becomes all about like, well, who who saved 379 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:18,640 something for, for that last 10K? 380 00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,800 Who made the right call on which moves to follow and who knew 381 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,040 their bodies limitations the best on that day? 382 00:21:25,520 --> 00:21:30,640 And in hindsight, I think Clayton and Ryan were like 383 00:21:30,640 --> 00:21:33,360 super, super smart about how they did it cuz they tried to 384 00:21:33,360 --> 00:21:35,280 cover the same moves I was trying to cover. 385 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:37,600 They were with, with me for a lot of that. 386 00:21:37,600 --> 00:21:40,360 But they, they kind of like settled back in once they 387 00:21:40,360 --> 00:21:42,080 realized that group was getting away. 388 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:45,480 And they, and I probably, I don't know what the gap was at 389 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:47,160 any point. I didn't, I haven't gone back in 390 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:50,360 like checked mile by mile Splitzer where I was at 30K. 391 00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:53,440 But I knew I was ahead of those guys And I could, I could hear 392 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:57,080 people cheering for Clayton like maybe 510 seconds after I passed 393 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:58,560 by. I could still kind of like I was 394 00:21:58,560 --> 00:22:01,560 kind of gauging it off that. So I, I knew he was there, but I 395 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:03,120 didn't know how he was feeling, right? 396 00:22:03,120 --> 00:22:05,760 So I didn't know if he had been right there the whole time or if 397 00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:09,720 he was catching me. And that was what was keeping me 398 00:22:09,720 --> 00:22:11,880 super engaged. Was like, try to stay smooth, 399 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,880 try to like hold it together. But yeah, I just, I, I tangled 400 00:22:16,880 --> 00:22:20,920 way too much in the first half of the race to to have have the 401 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:23,680 have the goods to do it again down in the end. 402 00:22:24,280 --> 00:22:27,680 So when Clayton passes, is it a silent pass or did he say 403 00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:30,040 anything? I I don't know what he said. 404 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:33,240 I don't think so because I remember he clipped me and it 405 00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:38,040 was it was honestly like super, super intense in that moment 406 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,800 because of the like crowds. It was like right where the the 407 00:22:42,800 --> 00:22:45,200 course just gets crazy on Comm have. 408 00:22:45,200 --> 00:22:49,680 So he definitely didn't I I don't think he would ever like 409 00:22:50,360 --> 00:22:53,280 poke the bear, so to speak. I think he's there. 410 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,080 There was too much running left to like turn that into an 411 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,800 opportunity to like one of and Clayton's not that kind of guy. 412 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,280 Like he's he's I don't think he would want to do that. 413 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:03,800 If anything, he would have probably said like, let's go or 414 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:05,400 something like come on, come with us. 415 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,360 But I think he could probably tell by the speed in which he 416 00:23:08,360 --> 00:23:11,040 passed me that I was, I was holding on for dear life. 417 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,320 I don't I don't think he thought for a second I was going to 418 00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:15,520 latch on and be rolling with them. 419 00:23:15,520 --> 00:23:17,480 They they went by me with some gusto. 420 00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:21,880 So the one thing I love about just sort of you as as an 421 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:23,960 athlete is that you're just unafraid to like also be a 422 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,800 pundit and voice when it comes to just sort of analyzing 423 00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:31,480 results from the track and, and, you know, the marathons just 424 00:23:31,480 --> 00:23:34,520 across the board. And so one thing that you stood 425 00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,400 out to me, I guess of, you know, from the earlier part of our 426 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,480 conversation so far has been that you said, it's like, we're 427 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,120 still going to try and figure out how to grapple with these 428 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,760 results, right? Like somehow it's like you can 429 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,480 read it as like, like I just worked on these rankings of 430 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:56,120 sorts for the 2028 US Olympic marathon trials sort of picture. 431 00:23:56,120 --> 00:23:59,880 And like where because this is a great bunch of data that we just 432 00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,840 got as to like where people fall in the pecking order. 433 00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,760 But at the same time, it's like this was just a once in an 434 00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:10,560 opportunity kind of day where like the conditions aligned and 435 00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:14,400 I'm like, I don't want to necessarily put a ton of weight 436 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:19,160 into these performances because there was, you know, perfect 437 00:24:19,160 --> 00:24:21,840 win, perfect conditions, the commitment from the athletes to 438 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:24,600 like, go for it. How are you just sort of this 439 00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:29,040 soon after the race trying to grapple with just sort of seeing 440 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,760 these times on paper versus what they're going to potentially 441 00:24:31,760 --> 00:24:36,720 translate to for the future? Like does someone whose legs 442 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:42,080 moved and completed a marathon in two O 4 breed belief that 443 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,960 they can do that again when the conditions aren't as perfect? 444 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:48,360 Like it's, it's, it's such a tough thing to now move forward 445 00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:49,560 from. Yep, Yep. 446 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,920 So let's take the top 20 because I think the top 20 is kind of 447 00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:56,720 like a clear line, like everybody that was sub two O 8. 448 00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:01,720 Let's say that so Wesley Kip 2 down to John career like we if 449 00:25:01,720 --> 00:25:03,800 we want to make it about the US distance running, we can do 450 00:25:03,800 --> 00:25:04,840 that. If we want to make it about the 451 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,920 distance running as a whole, I don't think anyone in that top 452 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:11,000 20 ran a time that they couldn't run on a Valencia. 453 00:25:11,360 --> 00:25:13,880 You know what I mean? Like nobody in that race ran a 454 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,520 time that I'm like, yeah, good luck doing that in Valencia or 455 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:18,240 doing that in Chicago on the right year. 456 00:25:19,720 --> 00:25:23,200 I still think Boston throws enough at you that even on its 457 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,520 best days, all it does is is show you what maybe the sealing 458 00:25:27,520 --> 00:25:31,480 capability is, assuming you ran a good race too, right? 459 00:25:31,480 --> 00:25:34,760 Like I think Charles Hicks, he has surprised me. 460 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,680 He's probably the biggest surprise of the day just because 461 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,600 second marathon kind of really popped off to a whole nother 462 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:48,560 level by anyone who saw his NCAA career at Stanford and his like 463 00:25:48,560 --> 00:25:51,800 10 mile road race last year at Cherry Blossom knew that the 464 00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,640 talent was there. Anyone who can run 45 minutes 465 00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:58,080 flat for a 10 mile, like he's got the gears, he's got the 466 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,720 range. And I just didn't know what kind 467 00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:03,960 of marathoner he was going to be at because New York was kind of 468 00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,280 a weird race last year. I thought that those results 469 00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:10,120 were hard to make sense of in a lot of ways. 470 00:26:10,120 --> 00:26:13,800 Like Joe Ryke out top American baby, Like that's, that's a 471 00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:18,000 that's a weird result, you know, and not any anything anyone else 472 00:26:18,000 --> 00:26:21,000 had on paper. And the guys like Hilary Boren 473 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,520 be a Sambasa who I thought were going to be, but maybe a little 474 00:26:24,520 --> 00:26:26,960 bit better on that day, they raced really regressively and 475 00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,760 paid for it, whereas a lot of people were coming on strong and 476 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,280 passing. And I think how you dissect 477 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:35,120 results is like, you have to look at everything. 478 00:26:35,120 --> 00:26:39,360 And people that are looking at the results on paper are not 479 00:26:39,360 --> 00:26:42,160 going to have a full picture. You have to look at it like, 480 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:44,160 well, who ran which style of race? 481 00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:47,400 What's their, what's the context of their build? 482 00:26:47,840 --> 00:26:53,400 I'm most impressed with Zuhair for kind of like continuing his 483 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,560 run of dominance and Charles for his big breakthrough. 484 00:26:56,560 --> 00:26:59,080 I think those two can kind of be put in a different bucket. 485 00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:04,160 And then I think there's like this Clayton Bryan Ford and Joe 486 00:27:04,160 --> 00:27:07,840 Clecker, like that's a tot. Like nobody, not one of those 487 00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,960 guys told me one of them is better than the other. 488 00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:13,400 They're all in the same group. Like they're just, they're just 489 00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:14,800 in a tear of their own right there. 490 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,840 And I think there's a world where in a perfect build, does 491 00:27:18,840 --> 00:27:20,640 Clayton run with Charles? Maybe. 492 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:24,080 Does he run with Zuhair? Maybe. 493 00:27:24,080 --> 00:27:26,680 But like Zuhair to me was transcendent. 494 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,640 This this whole his whole season, right? 495 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,960 His run in New York was remarkable. 496 00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:37,840 He ran like A273010K on the roads three weeks before. 497 00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:42,400 And his Houston run was like, I don't, I didn't even know what 498 00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,160 to do with it at the time. But now it's like clear it's 499 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,040 he's just, he's just really good. 500 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,400 And he runs in a way where he can, he can kind of do things 501 00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:57,040 that I'd say the tier below him in talent can't get away with. 502 00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,040 Like he can surge better than people. 503 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:01,440 He can. He can race those top Africans 504 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,880 and not pay for it. Like I was king of Zuhair a lot 505 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,520 because I knew he was probably the class of the field that I 506 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:08,400 was the most familiar with how he runs. 507 00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:11,960 And I tried to match what he was doing and he just he was on 508 00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,120 another level. This build this this this 509 00:28:14,120 --> 00:28:16,040 season, he was on a whole nother level. 510 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:19,400 And if he's on that level, there's only one American that I 511 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:22,000 think can run with him. And you know who that is so. 512 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,960 This episode of the City Smack podcast is supported by Wahoo. 513 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,360 You've got 26.2 miles of work. Heartbreak Hill, The Newton 514 00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:36,320 Hills that long grinding stretch from mile 16 to 20. 515 00:28:37,360 --> 00:28:39,320 You've studied the course you've circled. 516 00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:42,160 The date on the calendar You've sacrificed the early mornings 517 00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,080 for long runs. You've sacrificed your social 518 00:28:45,080 --> 00:28:46,280 plans. You've put in the work. 519 00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:50,880 But there's a difference between knowing a course and knowing a 520 00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:54,240 course. Have you felt the gradient shift 521 00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,200 under your feet? Have you practice holding your 522 00:28:57,200 --> 00:28:59,080 pace when the hill doesn't care about your goal time? 523 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:03,440 With the Wahoo Kicker Run, you can simulate the exact Boston or 524 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:06,560 London Marathon course right in your own home. 525 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:10,720 Upload the GPX file into the Wahoo app and the Kicker Runs 526 00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:13,400 Automatic grade control. Adjust your incline in real 527 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,280 time, mile by mile, climb by climb, descent by descent. 528 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:19,680 Exactly as it would feel when it matters most. 529 00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:22,400 That's race day. Every hill rehearsed, every 530 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:24,400 crucial on course moment. Practice. 531 00:29:24,640 --> 00:29:28,200 No guessing at all. That's not just training, that's 532 00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:31,680 race specific preparation. And the kicker run doesn't stop 533 00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:33,040 there. You've also got the Run Free 534 00:29:33,040 --> 00:29:36,120 mode, which uses sensors to automatically match the belt 535 00:29:36,120 --> 00:29:39,760 speed to your stride. No buttons, no interruptions, no 536 00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,320 breaking or flow. You're not managing a machine in 537 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:45,160 that moment, you're just running the way running is supposed to 538 00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:47,880 feel. Connect to Zwift for immersive 539 00:29:47,880 --> 00:29:51,440 course accurate visuals that put you on the road, or stay in the 540 00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:54,320 Wahoo app for structured workouts and seamless tracking. 541 00:29:54,520 --> 00:29:57,200 The Kicker Run works with the platforms that you already love, 542 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,160 whether that's Zwift, Peloton, Keto Map, and more. 543 00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:03,680 And right now, when you use Code Sidious at checkout, you'll get 544 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,240 a free Kicker Headwind Smart Fan. 545 00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,440 It's the fan that responds to your effort in real time, 546 00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:12,440 speeding up as your heart rate climbs and your pace pushes 547 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,920 harder over 30 mph of airflow, keeping it cool through every 548 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,040 brutal interval and every long run simulation. 549 00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:24,720 The Wahoo Kicker run because race day shouldn't be the first 550 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,480 time that you've run the course. Check it out today at 551 00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,920 wahoofitness.com and use code SIDIOUS at checkout for that 552 00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:36,080 free Kicker headwind Smart fan. Many thanks to Wahoo for coming 553 00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:38,920 back on as a sponsor of the Sidious Mac Podcast. 554 00:30:44,120 --> 00:30:46,520 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is presented by 555 00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:48,800 Lollipop. Because of course it is. 556 00:30:49,280 --> 00:30:52,200 I feel like everywhere I look lately I'm seeing Lollipop. 557 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:54,120 It's on all of my favorite shows. 558 00:30:54,240 --> 00:30:57,280 I saw it on Traitors when the contestants were sitting around 559 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,240 the mansion trying to decide who to vanish at the Round Table. 560 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:05,080 It pops up in episodes of Shrinking on Apple TV, and it 561 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:08,120 even had a moment in The Housemaid starring Sidney 562 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:09,960 Sweeney. You've seen it all over our 563 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,240 shows now for a couple years. Basically, Lollipop is 564 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:15,360 everywhere right now and I totally get why. 565 00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:19,720 My current favorite flavor when people ask is tropical punch and 566 00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,240 it tastes like a vacation in a can. 567 00:31:22,240 --> 00:31:25,760 I need that right now with how brutal this East Coast winter 568 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,080 has been. It's got the perfect balance of 569 00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,800 pineapple, passionfruit, Mandarin, and apple, so you get 570 00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:34,280 that nostalgic fruit punch flavor, but way more crisp and 571 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:37,400 way more refreshing. And Lollipop isn't just about 572 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,160 great taste. 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If you haven't had Lollipop yet, 581 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:08,560 grab a can and see what the hype is all about. 582 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:12,080 Trust me, your taste buds and your gut will both be happy. 583 00:32:12,360 --> 00:32:16,160 The best deal on the Internet for Lollipop is 25% off for 584 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,920 Citius Mag podcast listeners. We love it when our listeners 585 00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:20,360 tag us in their stories with them. 586 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,520 Support them because they support us. 587 00:32:22,760 --> 00:32:27,760 Citius 25 at checkout for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 588 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:32,160 That's Citius 25 for 25% off at drinklollipop.com. 589 00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:36,040 I cannot believe how strong our partnership with Lollipop has 590 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,080 been over the years. We're going to keep this thing 591 00:32:38,080 --> 00:32:40,880 going. We've made it the runner's soda. 592 00:32:44,560 --> 00:32:47,720 It was the guy who was sitting out with the most FOMO probably 593 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,520 of anyone in Boston. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. 594 00:32:51,520 --> 00:32:53,920 And Connor texted me the week before the race and told me he 595 00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:59,400 was free, like rationalizing what he was going to do after 596 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:02,960 Boston with the results because he he was like, man, you look, 597 00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:04,600 you look fit. I think you're going to do 598 00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:06,280 great. He's like, I'm just trying to 599 00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:09,280 get like ahead of like the emotional gym, like mental 600 00:33:09,280 --> 00:33:11,960 gymnastics I'm going to have to do after the race with it. 601 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:16,320 What everyone's about to run. Because I thought there was more 602 00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:19,400 people coming into this race ready than is normal. 603 00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:24,880 Like Joe's run it New York half Ryan's run it Houston. 604 00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:27,360 Alex Meyer was another guy that I thought was going to do really 605 00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:29,320 well and I he just didn't have his day. 606 00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,880 But I'm not counting him out. I think he's rating that 607 00:33:31,880 --> 00:33:34,760 grouping with the Ryan Fords, the Joe Collectors and the 608 00:33:34,760 --> 00:33:37,040 Clayton Youngs. I think they're right now 609 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,000 there's more people that could make the US Olympic marathon 610 00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:43,440 team than we're accustomed to. And I think people are going to 611 00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,160 just pick their favorites. It's going to be the fanfare is 612 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:48,160 going to be higher than ever. There's going to be people 613 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,040 making their case for who they like. 614 00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:53,040 And then everybody's going to be mad when you don't pick. 615 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:55,880 Like when you guys do your pregame selection show, there's 616 00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:58,360 going to be so many people that are like, how could you ever 617 00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,480 leave Clayton Young off your list? 618 00:34:00,760 --> 00:34:02,240 He's done this. He's done that. 619 00:34:02,280 --> 00:34:04,560 And yeah, I mean, it's it's going to be. 620 00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:07,160 And then everyone's going to play the results and be like, 621 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,960 oh, yeah, I knew this was going to happen. 622 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:11,719 It's like, dude, I'll tell you what, someone we're not even 623 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,639 thinking about is going to make that team. 624 00:34:13,719 --> 00:34:16,920 Someone who didn't even run yesterday, who isn't even in the 625 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,400 picture yet might be Grant Fisher. 626 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:20,920 Who knows who it's going to be, right? 627 00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,800 Like there's go look at past results from the Olympic trials. 628 00:34:25,120 --> 00:34:28,639 They never make sense and we never have a clear picture when 629 00:34:28,639 --> 00:34:33,360 we think we do and there's going to be someone new, there's going 630 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:35,920 to be something weird. One favorites going to just 631 00:34:35,920 --> 00:34:39,960 completely no show. One guy who you never expected 632 00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:41,800 is going to have the day of his life on that day. 633 00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,480 And then there's going to be who's hot at the right time. 634 00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:46,080 That's going to be what it's going to be all about. 635 00:34:47,719 --> 00:34:50,719 Yeah, I keep saying it. It's not too early to start 636 00:34:50,719 --> 00:34:54,040 getting excited about the 2028 US Olympic Marathon trials. 637 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:59,160 And yeah, I think today we just kind of put out these rankings 638 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,920 just to get it out there, keep that conversation just sort of 639 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,960 going. Like I slotted in Grant at what 640 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,400 was it like 8th or 7th or something like that, Because I 641 00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,320 was like, this is a good placeholder if he decides to 642 00:35:12,320 --> 00:35:16,680 commit to the event or not. You know, obviously if you go 643 00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,280 off of the belief in his talent, you'd rank him probably higher. 644 00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:25,000 If you weigh that half marathon that he did, you probably bump 645 00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:26,760 him lower. So it's good. 646 00:35:26,960 --> 00:35:30,320 I think like this is just good fodder for people to treat the 647 00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:32,560 marathon like a professional sport. 648 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,560 And it and it should be, and I think if you, if you hang out in 649 00:35:37,560 --> 00:35:40,320 Boston for Boston Marathon weekend, you know, the health of 650 00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:43,800 the sport is really, really strong and there's a lot of cool 651 00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:46,400 stuff going on. And I think there's a lot of 652 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:50,680 positive momentum. And as someone based in North 653 00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:55,160 America, based in the US and that doesn't have to worry about 654 00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:58,360 making AUS Olympic team, but I can, I can enjoy it and I can be 655 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:00,920 very invested and can know all these players and all these 656 00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,000 these people that are in the mix. 657 00:36:04,040 --> 00:36:10,880 It's going to be the craziest trials in modern history, maybe 658 00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,920 ever. I just think right now the 659 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,720 talent pool is so deep. The roads have never been better 660 00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:18,600 at like attracting talent than they are right now. 661 00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,720 The money in the sport's bigger than ever and it's just like 662 00:36:21,720 --> 00:36:26,320 everybody's going there and US distance running talents really 663 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:27,840 good. I, I think I made a tweet after 664 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:32,240 Ethan truly ran two O 7 and was like, this is awesome. 665 00:36:32,240 --> 00:36:37,320 But like throw pick 10 top level Americans, throw them in that 666 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,240 Osaka marathon and they're all going to run 2O7 or faster. 667 00:36:41,240 --> 00:36:43,320 And that's not a jab. But even truly, it's just like 668 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:48,040 people don't realize how fast they're the talent is right now. 669 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:52,600 And they're going to always like just look at the times and 670 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,920 that's how they're going to decide who's good and who's not. 671 00:36:55,320 --> 00:36:57,080 And there's just so much more to it. 672 00:36:57,080 --> 00:37:01,040 And I love being on the inside and racing all these guys all 673 00:37:01,040 --> 00:37:03,200 the time because I feel like I've got a really good idea of 674 00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:06,480 who's doing the right stuff, who's training really well and 675 00:37:06,480 --> 00:37:09,440 who's really, really fit and ready. 676 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,840 And I, I'm, I'm probably going to go watch the trials in 677 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:13,960 person. I, I coach a couple people that 678 00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,280 are be like fringe OTQ, people like that are going to be there. 679 00:37:17,280 --> 00:37:20,080 And I'll just be there just to, to enjoy the spectacle. 680 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:24,120 I think it's there's nothing more dramatic than the US 681 00:37:24,160 --> 00:37:27,280 marathon trials or track trials, honestly, just like the highs 682 00:37:27,280 --> 00:37:29,800 and lows of it, it's just, it's pure entertainment. 683 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:33,480 Yeah, I already got a couple of messages from folks about just 684 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:37,160 after the rankings came out and like Galen Rep is just listed in 685 00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:41,160 a just missed the list. And I think Ethan was the person 686 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,000 who is I think he's like 10th or something like that. 687 00:37:44,320 --> 00:37:47,280 And they're telling the the message I got was like, you're 688 00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,120 telling me that like on a race day, Galen Rupp isn't going to 689 00:37:51,120 --> 00:37:54,640 beat Ethan Julie. And I was like, I right now 690 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,680 like, I don't know, but. It's. 691 00:37:57,680 --> 00:37:59,920 Good to kind of start to paint that picture in your head. 692 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:04,440 Sorry, probably not. I mean, they're what if Wesley 693 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,920 Kitt 2 figures out the marathon? Like there's a guy that like 694 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,040 when we talked about talent, when, when US based roadrunners 695 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:16,000 are in the same non marathon road race as Wesley Kip 2, 696 00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:19,560 they're shaking in their boots because he's he's a real player. 697 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:23,440 He's he's someone that has all sorts of talent and range of 698 00:38:23,680 --> 00:38:25,760 capabilities. He can do things that other 699 00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:28,400 people can't do. I look at like people that can 700 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:31,360 make other people's race. Hell, Zuhair is one of those 701 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:34,600 people. He's not American, but like OAC 702 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,320 just signed Patrick Kiprop. I hate racing that guy like, 703 00:38:37,320 --> 00:38:40,920 'cause he can make your life because he's good enough to do 704 00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:43,280 things in the race that hurt you the whole time. 705 00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,520 And Wesley's one of those guys. And so you put him in the 706 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:52,120 trials, and if he has a perfect build and he nails it, you're 707 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,000 telling me you'd be shocked if a guy like Wesley makes the team? 708 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:56,400 No way. He could definitely do it. 709 00:38:56,520 --> 00:39:00,480 What if Ahmed Muhammad moves to the moves to the marathon before 710 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:02,560 the Olympic? Like he's another guy, like he's 711 00:39:02,560 --> 00:39:06,080 just got a lot of tools that that the list is probably 20 712 00:39:06,080 --> 00:39:08,040 deep of people that can make the team. 713 00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:12,440 So yeah, it's it's pretty crazy. All right, so back to you just 714 00:39:12,440 --> 00:39:18,040 sort of with Canada like second fastest marathon in Canadian 715 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:21,360 history again, What are the positive takeaways from from 716 00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:22,800 this one, I guess for the next one? 717 00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:27,240 Yeah, If I wanted to play like my own PR team on how to like 718 00:39:27,240 --> 00:39:30,880 spin this to make myself feel the best possible and make 719 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:34,320 everybody think I'm awesome, I could say that I've proved I'm 720 00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:39,520 the most consistent right now in a lot, and not just in Canada, 721 00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:42,880 but like one of the most consistent in this, let's call 722 00:39:42,880 --> 00:39:44,240 it North American distance running. 723 00:39:44,240 --> 00:39:48,440 Just being able to run two O 7 last year, Boston, two O 8 at 724 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:51,840 Ottawa, two O 6 at Chicago, two O 6 at Boston, running Ottawa in 725 00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,680 five weeks. As long as I can get my legs 726 00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:57,840 back under me, I think I'll run another really solid marathon 727 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:00,240 and compete for the win there and hopefully have another good 728 00:40:00,240 --> 00:40:04,280 result. I think I've become experienced 729 00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:07,360 enough that. I'm just, it's just a matter of 730 00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:12,400 time for like things to break my way, the right race to come 731 00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,560 before me and make little improvements here and there. 732 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,040 I had a 45 minute conversation with John, my coach this 733 00:40:19,040 --> 00:40:21,480 morning. And we already kind of know like 734 00:40:21,880 --> 00:40:24,680 what were the some of the pieces in retrospect that we wish we 735 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,640 would have maybe touched on. And that's, that's a good place 736 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,040 to be if you can have the best build of your life, finish the 737 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:35,520 race with like a somewhat dissatisfying taste in your 738 00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:38,200 mouth, but still a good enough result to say we're moving in 739 00:40:38,200 --> 00:40:41,760 the right direction. And then point to two or three 740 00:40:41,760 --> 00:40:44,800 things that you'd be like, let's just try to dial these in a 741 00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,480 little bit, then I think you're in a great spot. 742 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:51,600 On the training side of things coming off of this, right, like 743 00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:56,040 when maybe in the lead up to this, like what would be if 744 00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:58,560 someone said, all right, what you're running this at gold 745 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,080 marathon pace? Like what were you targeting in 746 00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:04,280 that? And because it's going to mess 747 00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,720 some guys up, like is Zuhair all of a sudden going to be running 748 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:13,160 gold marathon paces now 2O3 mid or do you stick to just sort of 749 00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:17,760 like probably training to run two O 5 is what with the 750 00:41:17,760 --> 00:41:20,800 conditions and everything help lead to this performance. 751 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,000 You don't have to make that much of an adjustment because I guess 752 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,320 like you just across the board had two O sixes. 753 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,680 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 754 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:32,600 So for me, I don't focus too much on marathon pace, like 755 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,640 what, what is my marathon pace? And do I just hammer that in? 756 00:41:36,120 --> 00:41:39,520 I did a lot of stuff this build where I would run like marathon 757 00:41:39,520 --> 00:41:42,640 effort and then like throw in a surge, like try to run a fast 758 00:41:42,640 --> 00:41:45,080 mile or fast split or something like that. 759 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:48,520 Just to kind of like see where the limits were and see what 760 00:41:48,520 --> 00:41:50,560 surges would do to me. Because I knew that this would 761 00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:53,040 be a surge heavy race. And it was, it absolutely was, 762 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:54,920 that was, I knew what it was going to be. 763 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,760 And I still, I, I prepared for it and I still walked away 764 00:41:58,760 --> 00:42:01,800 feeling like, yeah, there's probably a few things like could 765 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,080 have and should have done slightly differently. 766 00:42:05,320 --> 00:42:10,360 But no, I think you, you as a marathoner at this level should 767 00:42:10,360 --> 00:42:16,840 train to the best capability of each given day and focus on your 768 00:42:16,840 --> 00:42:18,920 efforts. I'm not going to go out there 769 00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:21,320 and be like, OK, now my marathon pace is 449. 770 00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:25,440 Let's just be super dialed in on 449 mile splits or whatever. 771 00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:30,560 No, it's probably, probably with a operating in a range of like, 772 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:34,240 well, I got to be really good at running between 4:40 and 4:50 773 00:42:34,240 --> 00:42:39,240 mile splits and be capable of surviving the 4:30's when they 774 00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,880 happen. Because that's unless you're in 775 00:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,560 a time trial setting, that's probably going to be required of 776 00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:48,880 you at some point. So a trials, a New York or a 777 00:42:48,880 --> 00:42:53,640 Boston, you have to be ready to run in half marathon, pace in a 778 00:42:53,640 --> 00:42:56,200 marathon. And so you really just want to 779 00:42:56,200 --> 00:42:59,440 be really well-rounded and capable of running those splits 780 00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:03,440 ranging from half marathon to marathon effort within the 781 00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:06,800 context of like heavy miles, heavy workouts and all that 782 00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,320 stuff. One cool part about your Strava 783 00:43:10,320 --> 00:43:11,840 post afterwards, you kept it pretty brief. 784 00:43:12,560 --> 00:43:15,040 You said I'll be back and I'll be better. 785 00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:18,600 Just pure conviction there, I guess. 786 00:43:18,600 --> 00:43:21,120 What gives you the confidence that I guess like this path, 787 00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,640 this past performance in Boston is more of a floor rather than a 788 00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:26,720 ceiling, I guess. Like where? 789 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:28,320 Where do you see things going from here? 790 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,600 From here, I won't have a true opportunity like this again for 791 00:43:32,600 --> 00:43:34,960 a while. So I think I have a lot of time 792 00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:39,720 to work on the pieces and take this and and run with it. 793 00:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,360 But this was, like I said, this is the first time I entered a 794 00:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,640 race like this with the mindset I had right like last year's 795 00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,680 Boston and even last year Chicago. 796 00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,240 Not in not the same context at all like Chicago was. 797 00:43:52,240 --> 00:43:54,760 I'm going to go out try to run the the Canadian record. 798 00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,960 I ended up getting stuck in a group that was running two O 440 799 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,960 pace at halfway, which on a time trial day you want to be as 800 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:03,600 smooth and even as possible. I ended up being over pace and 801 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,400 paid for it and I bled out like kind of like I did it at Boston. 802 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,600 I kind of a very similar race For me, honestly, it's like this 803 00:44:10,680 --> 00:44:13,520 slow death to a respectable time. 804 00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:22,680 If I go to say a Valencia this fall and try to run two O 530, I 805 00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:27,160 have no doubt I'm making it really deep in that race on pace 806 00:44:27,400 --> 00:44:30,280 and honestly, like in a groove, comfortable for a long time with 807 00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:34,880 the same fitness. In retrospect, I could have run 808 00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:39,000 90 seconds faster with perfect execution, but that's, you know, 809 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:43,440 just just talking out of my ass a little bit and, and just 810 00:44:43,760 --> 00:44:45,800 hoping about like what could have been. 811 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,920 But just like minor, like you're, you're basically running 812 00:44:48,920 --> 00:44:52,200 an entire marathon with like a, a battery and you don't know how 813 00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:55,120 much left is in the battery, but you're, every time you make a 814 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:56,800 decision, you're you're draining it. 815 00:44:57,280 --> 00:45:02,760 And I just had never really like met empty like I did this last 816 00:45:02,760 --> 00:45:07,000 weekend or this Monday. So it was just a different data 817 00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,280 point for me to take and be like, OK, I need to be like a 818 00:45:09,280 --> 00:45:13,400 little bit more calculated with the middle of the race efforts 819 00:45:13,400 --> 00:45:16,920 and just be super, super controlled and run a little less 820 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:19,400 with my heart and a little more with my head in the 1st 20 miles 821 00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:22,720 of the race. I just chatted with Amanda 822 00:45:22,720 --> 00:45:27,480 Vestry and she was saying she needed assistance to just even 823 00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:31,760 walk and be able to sit on the toilet and I watched the video 824 00:45:31,760 --> 00:45:38,040 of Clayton trying to go for a run yesterday and he looked 825 00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:41,880 closer to a race Walker than than a than a runner in some of 826 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:44,800 the the footage. How knackered are your legs 827 00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:47,120 right now? Definitely right up there with 828 00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:48,760 the worst I've ever felt after a marathon. 829 00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:53,520 I think I felt worse after my first and after my first Boston. 830 00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:57,640 Like the first few. Like big big hard hard marathon 831 00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:00,600 efforts in my career took more out of me than they do now. 832 00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:05,600 This was the most sore I've been at least in the last a couple of 833 00:46:05,600 --> 00:46:08,640 years after a marathon after Paris. 834 00:46:08,720 --> 00:46:12,360 I thought that that course would chew me up, but I'm way, way 835 00:46:12,360 --> 00:46:14,160 worse for it now than I was then. 836 00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:19,920 And I think a large part of that is when you have to run the last 837 00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:25,240 8 miles in like muscle failure mode, you're recruiting things 838 00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:27,760 that aren't meant to help you run 5 minute pace. 839 00:46:27,760 --> 00:46:30,040 Like you're running 5 minute pace with, with parts of your 840 00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:33,240 body that don't normally move you at 5 minute pace or 841 00:46:33,240 --> 00:46:36,000 something. So you, you end up like like 842 00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,840 just firing up everything. And yeah, that's, that hurts the 843 00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:44,600 DOMS on that is next level. I can go to the bathroom on my 844 00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,920 own and but I did have to help get help putting on my pants 845 00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:52,320 after the race so that was not possible on my own. 846 00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,080 I cramped trying to bend over to like pull my pant leg over my 847 00:46:56,080 --> 00:46:59,600 foot. All right, so Ottawa's next last 848 00:46:59,600 --> 00:47:03,760 year you finished second to Albert career later got popped 849 00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:08,320 for doping on not just one positive test, but 3 positive 850 00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:13,840 tests for Sarah in October. CJ was right behind you in that 851 00:47:13,840 --> 00:47:15,720 one as well. I don't know if CJ is running 852 00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:17,920 this year. He's not he's not. 853 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,800 OK, So what are the hopes and expectations for this one? 854 00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,200 Because yeah, it's it's different from going to a major 855 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,680 marathon. I don't have the names off the 856 00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:30,680 top of my head, but whoever was first and 2nd at Seville this 857 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:34,000 year in two O 359, they're both in Ottawa. 858 00:47:34,360 --> 00:47:37,840 So they're both turning, turning it around from Seville to 859 00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:41,080 Ottawa, which is, you know, good on the race organizers for 860 00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:43,120 getting 2 sub 204 guys to commit. 861 00:47:43,280 --> 00:47:45,760 But The funny thing is, is Steven Anderson, the elite 862 00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:48,720 athlete coordinator, said he had signed them to join Ottawa 863 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,160 before they ran Seville. So they ended up, I think, one 864 00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:52,560 of them. Sure. 865 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,720 A catata if you remember that name yeah so like a big name 866 00:47:56,720 --> 00:47:59,560 that's kind of been a little bit off the main major scene for a 867 00:47:59,560 --> 00:48:04,160 while he ran two O 359 and and I think he won Seville and he'll 868 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:08,600 be there so I my guess is my race plan will be to sit with 869 00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,040 those guys and hope that they either make a mistake or I can 870 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:16,200 capitalize on something with the knowledge I have of the course 871 00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,680 or who knows what their training was post Seville. 872 00:48:19,240 --> 00:48:23,160 There's going to be a big battle for a podium spot though between 873 00:48:23,160 --> 00:48:26,720 us three, I would guess. And then there's a couple other 874 00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:30,120 and this is like, I don't know if this is PC, but B list 875 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:33,240 Kenyans and Ethiopians that'll also be in there, there where 876 00:48:33,240 --> 00:48:37,600 it's like they're like 2O5 to two O 7 Kenyans or Ethiopians. 877 00:48:37,600 --> 00:48:39,520 And I'm like, I don't you have no idea what you're getting with 878 00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:42,520 that kind of those kind of guys. Like they could be on the come 879 00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:45,880 up, they could be ready. Who knows what what they are at 880 00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:48,040 this point in their career if they're ascending. 881 00:48:48,760 --> 00:48:52,720 So it I expect to have to fight for a podium spot, but the 882 00:48:52,720 --> 00:48:55,640 mindset is to try to win it. That was how I went into it last 883 00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,400 year. And I feel like the the lessons 884 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,400 I learned in Boston from like a energy conservation standpoint, 885 00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:04,720 I'm going to immediately apply to Ottawa and try to be like as 886 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,040 unemotional with my execution as possible. 887 00:49:08,520 --> 00:49:11,360 Back to Rory the pundit for a bit. 888 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,920 One thing that's that to me from a comment you made earlier was 889 00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,640 you said, I think I think John careers the best in the world 890 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:24,200 this weekend, London, Sebastian Salway versus Jacob Kaplimo. 891 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:27,600 That's going to be a pretty hot battle. 892 00:49:27,640 --> 00:49:29,960 Could it sway your opinion on like who's the best in the 893 00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,960 world? It's those that's the big three 894 00:49:31,960 --> 00:49:34,800 right now. Yeah, yeah, I'd, I'm, I will, I 895 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:37,480 will just say I don't, I will never give Jacob Kaplimo his 896 00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:39,560 flowers because of his representation. 897 00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:45,520 So I'm I'm I'm going to just be like a not I'll be if I get, you 898 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:49,480 know, crucified for saying that I'm not going to buy the Jacob 899 00:49:49,480 --> 00:49:51,000 Kaplimo stuff. That's fine. 900 00:49:51,000 --> 00:49:56,360 I'll say that Rosa's got a bad rap, so maybe he should look 901 00:49:56,360 --> 00:49:58,920 into some new representation if he wants to clear his good name. 902 00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:05,200 But I think Sebastian Sawy is if there, if there was like someone 903 00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,480 shouting from the mountaintop of who's who's better, he would be 904 00:50:08,480 --> 00:50:12,480 the obvious pick. And I think that race is going 905 00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:15,120 to be really good. I also think Yomis could be like 906 00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,000 the the next great one. I don't know how he'll translate 907 00:50:18,000 --> 00:50:20,560 to the marathon yet. He's kind of he kind of runs 908 00:50:20,560 --> 00:50:23,760 every race like erratically. And I think he's going to have 909 00:50:23,760 --> 00:50:26,200 really big highs and really big lows no matter what. 910 00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,640 Just that's how he's always been. 911 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:31,920 But from a talent perspective, that's a real, I'm really 912 00:50:31,920 --> 00:50:35,240 curious how Yomis does because he's he's insane. 913 00:50:35,240 --> 00:50:39,080 Like that guy could very well be the best of the best, and we'll 914 00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,720 see how he does. Same with like Hego Skeberwett 915 00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,280 who's like debuting there as well and like Hego's is someone 916 00:50:45,280 --> 00:50:49,880 who it's either a phenomenal result or the dude blew up big 917 00:50:49,880 --> 00:50:51,600 time in the race. Yeah. 918 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:54,600 And I think, I think guys like that, there's always someone 919 00:50:54,600 --> 00:50:58,960 like that ready to pounce and it's just opportunity and and 920 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,280 timing and it's always probably the safest bet. 921 00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,840 I wouldn't like Salway will be first or second. 922 00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,360 He's probably not going to have a bad race. 923 00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:08,800 He just hasn't in his whole career. 924 00:51:08,800 --> 00:51:11,480 He's he's like the Mr. Consistent at this point. 925 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:14,120 John Kerr is also really consistent. 926 00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,800 He other than the Chicago one, he's basically won everything 927 00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:21,000 he's done since that since Chicago 2020. 928 00:51:21,720 --> 00:51:27,480 Was that 5 or you know, 424? So he won Chicago 24, Boston 25, 929 00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:33,080 Valencia 25 and now Boston 26. Other than his one stinker in 930 00:51:33,080 --> 00:51:37,400 Chicago, which I think he just made a couple mistakes, which is 931 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:40,320 human of him. He's been really consistent and 932 00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:43,040 saw ways been really consistent since he stepped up in Berlin 933 00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,440 and London. And it would be fun to get all 934 00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,480 those guys on the same start line at the same time. 935 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:53,480 But that's the problem with the majors is that they attract, 936 00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:56,760 they, they, they pay for their players and they're going to 937 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:59,040 always split the best of the world in the world. 938 00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,640 So we will never get a true clash of the Titans and tell the 939 00:52:02,640 --> 00:52:04,920 Olympics. And who knows what the politics 940 00:52:04,920 --> 00:52:06,720 of selecting an Olympic team turns into. 941 00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,240 So you don't always get the best of the best there either. 942 00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:13,040 All right, so one more Rory hot take that. 943 00:52:13,200 --> 00:52:14,760 Well, it's not necessarily hot take. 944 00:52:14,800 --> 00:52:17,840 This is sort of like your response to and processing just 945 00:52:17,840 --> 00:52:20,720 sort of cuz you what was the one that you got dragged on Twitter 946 00:52:20,720 --> 00:52:23,000 for? Was it like professional runners 947 00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:26,040 are influencers or something influencer related right? 948 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:29,360 Yeah, well, I said, I said pro sports is about performance and 949 00:52:29,360 --> 00:52:33,000 sponsorships are about like a return on investment, right. 950 00:52:33,720 --> 00:52:36,920 That was the direct quote. And yeah, people were mad at me 951 00:52:36,920 --> 00:52:40,160 because it happened to coincide with the Emma Bates drama, which 952 00:52:40,160 --> 00:52:42,520 I was that that did spark the thought. 953 00:52:42,520 --> 00:52:44,840 I wasn't at all trying to trash Emma Bates. 954 00:52:45,200 --> 00:52:48,680 I just would like, look, these companies, they contract ends, 955 00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,600 they're re evaluating spending. They probably have a very 956 00:52:51,600 --> 00:52:54,320 limited budget and they're probably going trend lines. 957 00:52:54,320 --> 00:52:57,640 All these other things. I at the time was like, look, 958 00:52:58,520 --> 00:53:02,640 you can, may have, may have you've made a mistake here and 959 00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:05,400 may have wronged Emma Bates. That's a full possibility. 960 00:53:05,640 --> 00:53:07,880 But it's also their prerogative to decide where to spend their 961 00:53:07,880 --> 00:53:10,360 marketing dollars. If the contract was over at the 962 00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:11,960 end of that year. I don't look that they didn't 963 00:53:11,960 --> 00:53:13,600 drop Emma Bates because she was pregnant. 964 00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:16,040 They were making decisions on how they were going to spend the 965 00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,680 next few years of their money. And you could sit in the room 966 00:53:18,680 --> 00:53:20,960 with EU can person and be like, look, Emma Bates is actually 967 00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:22,720 this is a great time to sponsor it. 968 00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:25,160 Like there could be someone in the room if there if it's a 969 00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,360 group of people that can make that case and it would be a 970 00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:32,200 valid case, like pregnancy is not a deterrent of sponsorship 971 00:53:32,200 --> 00:53:34,040 dollars. That could be a leverage point. 972 00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,560 Like she could very well make that a really good marketing 973 00:53:38,560 --> 00:53:41,320 opportunity. But if you're in the 974 00:53:41,320 --> 00:53:43,480 professional sports world and you're trying to get exposure at 975 00:53:43,480 --> 00:53:46,480 majors, she's at least not going to be in the majors for the next 976 00:53:46,480 --> 00:53:47,840 nine months. We know that. 977 00:53:48,160 --> 00:53:51,760 So unless you're Callie, Callie can run majors, I guess, 978 00:53:51,760 --> 00:53:54,120 pregnant. So there's, there's exceptions, 979 00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,680 several, but like that was my point is it's just like they're, 980 00:53:57,680 --> 00:54:01,200 they're, it's a tough decision to be that person in charge of 981 00:54:01,200 --> 00:54:03,880 you can and be like, let's say you can as an operating budget 982 00:54:03,880 --> 00:54:07,360 of $100,000 a year to give to marathon women. 983 00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,720 And maybe I don't know what the numbers are, but maybe 1/4 that 984 00:54:12,720 --> 00:54:16,120 budget was towards Emma. And they're like, well, where do 985 00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:19,880 we spend in 26 through 28? Like we're, we're building 986 00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:22,240 towards the next Olympics. They have to make tough 987 00:54:22,240 --> 00:54:23,480 decision. It's sports. 988 00:54:24,040 --> 00:54:27,400 That was my point is it's just sports like we have to like look 989 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,280 at it as like these people are trying to maximize return on 990 00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:35,480 investment and value. If they had cut her mid 991 00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:38,720 contract, I would be banging on the table that that's wrong. 992 00:54:38,760 --> 00:54:42,720 But I think that there was just a calculated risk assessment. 993 00:54:43,240 --> 00:54:45,480 I just saw a video like literally right before this 994 00:54:45,480 --> 00:54:48,480 where it was like someone analyzing like Sharon's 995 00:54:48,720 --> 00:54:54,440 Instagram profile and like how she doesn't post enough on her 996 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:56,720 own. And it's just like a lot of 997 00:54:56,720 --> 00:55:01,520 collabs with brands. And I'm like, her job is to run 998 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:06,400 fast. That's priority number one to 999 00:55:06,880 --> 00:55:11,160 also, I think, yeah, what people are paying her to do is to drop 1000 00:55:11,160 --> 00:55:17,560 that 1448 from 35 K over to 40K. And then on top of that is like, 1001 00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:21,440 you're you're just looking at one platform. 1002 00:55:21,920 --> 00:55:25,800 She was just on ESPN for 2 1/2 hours in the last 30 minutes or 1003 00:55:25,800 --> 00:55:29,720 so of it, were just all by herself for 35 minutes. 1004 00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:33,920 I'm like, that seems like some pretty decent exposure. 1005 00:55:33,920 --> 00:55:38,680 So, yeah, I mean, the whole conversation about, you know, 1006 00:55:38,760 --> 00:55:43,120 athletes as influencers and where people are allocating 1007 00:55:43,120 --> 00:55:45,360 their dollars, like it's a whole separate thing to unpack. 1008 00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:48,520 All right. Well, the the take I wanted to 1009 00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:52,880 kind of explore with you was Fobbles, where we had him expand 1010 00:55:52,880 --> 00:55:55,160 on it in the lab count newsletter that went out today 1011 00:55:55,160 --> 00:55:57,680 where him and Kyle kind of go back and forth on the whole 1012 00:55:57,680 --> 00:55:59,920 thing a bit. But so he put it out there as 1013 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,480 like this likely contradicts opinions I had in the past, but 1014 00:56:02,480 --> 00:56:05,600 a marinating on the take that super shoes may end up being one 1015 00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,520 of the worst things ever in terms of watching interesting 1016 00:56:08,520 --> 00:56:10,480 and compelling elite level marathons. 1017 00:56:10,800 --> 00:56:16,080 And he goes on for a couple more but tweets to expand upon that 1018 00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,400 point and so people can check it out on his Twitter page. 1019 00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:21,560 But and you also, I think kind of chimed in at one point. 1020 00:56:21,560 --> 00:56:23,920 It was like, I think in response to Alex Pretome where you're 1021 00:56:23,920 --> 00:56:28,440 like, yeah, but Scott was, you know, made his money and and his 1022 00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:32,880 success off of racing smart. And, you know, in a race like 1023 00:56:32,880 --> 00:56:36,040 this, yeah, you still have to race smart, but just sort of not 1024 00:56:36,040 --> 00:56:39,960 as calculated as Fobble had to be back in the day. 1025 00:56:40,000 --> 00:56:43,920 So I guess explain sort of your thoughts off of Fobble's take? 1026 00:56:44,280 --> 00:56:48,320 To be honest, and I can say this because Scott's my friend Scott 1027 00:56:48,320 --> 00:56:51,600 would not have done well in in Mondays Boston Marathon because 1028 00:56:51,600 --> 00:56:57,160 nobody died and he made a living off of running marathons smarter 1029 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,960 and beating people that were better than him. 1030 00:56:59,600 --> 00:57:02,440 And people criticized him for that in the peak of his career. 1031 00:57:02,440 --> 00:57:04,120 They're like, oh, I'd love to see him take some risks. 1032 00:57:04,120 --> 00:57:06,840 He doesn't. He was calculated and that 1033 00:57:06,840 --> 00:57:08,800 reward, there was a reward for that. 1034 00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:12,800 He passed Nance and was top American in that 2023 Boston. 1035 00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,840 His like famous 2019 Boston where he was a little bit more 1036 00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,840 aggressive upfront, but the race was also different that day. 1037 00:57:19,840 --> 00:57:22,920 It was a slower race. He was able to be in the group 1038 00:57:23,040 --> 00:57:29,640 through Newton in a 6150 half marathon, split pasta marathon. 1039 00:57:30,000 --> 00:57:32,360 We would have had seen Scott Fable at the peak of his powers 1040 00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:34,880 pretty close to his his half marathon PB. 1041 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:39,320 And Scott was really reluctant to work on anything but 1042 00:57:39,320 --> 00:57:42,160 marathoning in his career. He never wanted to get faster. 1043 00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:45,320 He never wanted to train for this for the slower stuff or the 1044 00:57:45,320 --> 00:57:49,320 faster stuff, the shorter stuff. And so I think from an ego 1045 00:57:49,320 --> 00:57:51,440 standpoint, he's like mad because he's like, I where do I 1046 00:57:51,440 --> 00:57:54,120 fit into this? Like, if we're being honest, I 1047 00:57:54,120 --> 00:57:56,600 think it's like him watching the race and being like, well, this, 1048 00:57:56,600 --> 00:57:59,960 this doesn't make sense for me. And where I slapped myself in 1049 00:57:59,960 --> 00:58:01,680 it. It's a hard way to evaluate it. 1050 00:58:02,000 --> 00:58:04,760 And it's, I saw someone else commented on his like old man 1051 00:58:04,760 --> 00:58:08,920 yelling at clouds. And it's like it it's like, 1052 00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,960 yeah, I mean, the game has changed in a weird way. 1053 00:58:12,960 --> 00:58:14,680 But Scott Fable also wore super shoes. 1054 00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:17,680 He was sponsored by Nike. The the shoe that Charles Hicks 1055 00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:19,920 wore, he basic, he got to wear it for a little bit. 1056 00:58:19,920 --> 00:58:24,480 So it's not like Scott ever never got to reap the benefits 1057 00:58:24,480 --> 00:58:27,560 of this, this modern era of marathoning. 1058 00:58:27,560 --> 00:58:30,640 He overlapped with both eras. So I think he does have a unique 1059 00:58:30,640 --> 00:58:35,080 perspective on it. But it's funny because I think 1060 00:58:35,080 --> 00:58:40,440 he would behind closed doors, talk about his 2019 Boston 1061 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:44,400 Marathon and maybe compare that and contrast that to 2023, his 1062 00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,200 last really strong Boston showing. 1063 00:58:46,640 --> 00:58:48,960 And they're really similar on paper. 1064 00:58:49,360 --> 00:58:53,080 But like 1, he was wearing the Hoka Carbon Rocket, which was 1065 00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:57,040 like really early on the shoe tech game in a lab that's 1066 00:58:57,040 --> 00:58:59,880 nowhere near what he was wearing in 2023. 1067 00:59:00,200 --> 00:59:02,760 And yet the results are very, very similar on paper. 1068 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,600 So it's like it's really hard. People are really trying to make 1069 00:59:06,600 --> 00:59:10,360 sense of times and of of how people are running. 1070 00:59:10,640 --> 00:59:13,280 But it's, it's so much more complex than like shoes are 1071 00:59:13,280 --> 00:59:15,760 getting better. It's I think people are getting 1072 00:59:15,760 --> 00:59:17,960 better. I think training is getting a 1073 00:59:17,960 --> 00:59:20,600 little bit better. I think people are taking bigger 1074 00:59:20,600 --> 00:59:23,840 risks and the standard keeps getting risen. 1075 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,440 Yet a guy like Connor Mance in the US and everybody in the US 1076 00:59:27,840 --> 00:59:31,200 immediately starts changing what they think is possible and 1077 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,360 acceptable. And there's just kind of a 1078 00:59:34,400 --> 00:59:37,600 renaissance going on of sorts. Yeah, I think what Scott ended 1079 00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,240 up elaborating on was just sort of like, well, you know what, 1080 00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,080 I'll just continue to slot myself in at 7th. 1081 00:59:43,080 --> 00:59:46,840 So that would have been Charles 6 two O 435 that that's the type 1082 00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,160 of day he would have had. There you go. 1083 00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:54,040 Well, congratulations Favo on your arbitrary virtual 1084 00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,720 performance. All right, Rory, well, always 1085 00:59:57,720 --> 01:00:01,760 appreciate you shedding your insights on your own race. 1086 01:00:01,760 --> 01:00:06,520 And then just I, I, I, I love the way, you know, you and JT 1087 01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:11,320 talk about just other people's races out there and like just 1088 01:00:11,320 --> 01:00:13,240 add a little bit more of that voice to the sport. 1089 01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:17,240 So keep up the great work with the out and back podcast. 1090 01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:21,360 And it's really cool to see just sort of, yeah, yet another just 1091 01:00:21,360 --> 01:00:24,480 sort of like athlete media venture out there that. 1092 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:28,160 Gives people more to to consume because we've got an awesome 1093 01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:31,160 sport and it's great when people talk about it and get excited 1094 01:00:31,160 --> 01:00:34,640 about things. And so, yeah, no, keep it up all 1095 01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:38,000 around with your running and your and your content and it's 1096 01:00:38,000 --> 01:00:39,800 all good stuff. Thanks. 1097 01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:42,440 I know you listen to Bill Simmons and I, I don't know if 1098 01:00:42,440 --> 01:00:45,200 you listen to pardon my take, but I'm a Bill Simmons, pardon 1099 01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:48,120 my take, Ryan Rosillo trio. That's my like, that's my 1100 01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:50,440 Trinity. And that's where like a lot of 1101 01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:54,480 my like sports brain exists. So I like to try to try to bring 1102 01:00:54,480 --> 01:00:58,480 in like how I observe, how I observe other sports and think 1103 01:00:58,480 --> 01:01:01,400 about how I can observe my sport in the same lens. 1104 01:01:01,760 --> 01:01:06,160 And I, I'm, I think it's fun to have those conversations. 1105 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:09,800 I think, I think that they can can really uplift the sport and 1106 01:01:09,840 --> 01:01:12,480 give access to people in a different way and teach people 1107 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:15,680 to think about it differently. And so, yeah, I mean, you're 1108 01:01:15,680 --> 01:01:17,960 doing the same thing here with Sidious Mag. 1109 01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:22,440 And I don't think we'll ever hit a capacity of like, OK, we have 1110 01:01:22,440 --> 01:01:25,720 too much information, too much content out there because it's 1111 01:01:25,720 --> 01:01:28,000 like kind of a rising tide lifts all shifts. 1112 01:01:28,640 --> 01:01:30,680 All right, we'll keep your seat warm so that you know, once 1113 01:01:30,680 --> 01:01:33,960 your, your running days are over, we'll, we'll have one 1114 01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:35,760 ready for you here at at Sidious. 1115 01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,560 But always appreciate you, Rory. Appreciate you. 1116 01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,240 Take care. All right, that's a wrap on 1117 01:01:42,240 --> 01:01:44,480 today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the 1118 01:01:44,480 --> 01:01:47,480 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 1119 01:01:47,480 --> 01:01:50,560 routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer, 1120 01:01:50,560 --> 01:01:52,480 Jasmine Fair. And to everyone behind the 1121 01:01:52,480 --> 01:01:55,120 scenes who helps make the Sidious Magic Podcast happen. 1122 01:01:55,680 --> 01:01:56,840 You enjoyed today's episode a quick. 1123 01:01:56,840 --> 01:02:00,000 Five Star Review on Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people 1124 01:02:00,120 --> 01:02:02,680 find this show and we read every single one. 1125 01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:05,920 You can find muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com 1126 01:02:05,920 --> 01:02:07,960 and you can follow. Along across all of Sidious Mag 1127 01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,800 social channels. We'll see you next time. 1128 01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:11,040 Thanks again for listening.