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Check it all out at 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 xendurance.com. Code Sidious for 25% off your 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:19,600 first order. What's up everyone? 44 00:02:19,640 --> 00:02:21,760 You are listening to the CDs Mag podcast. 45 00:02:21,760 --> 00:02:24,440 I'm your host Chris Chavez, and every week we go beyond the 46 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,080 results to bring you conversations with the biggest 47 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,880 names on the track, the roads, and behind the scenes, from 48 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:33,360 world class athletes and coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 49 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:36,600 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 50 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,640 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 51 00:02:39,640 --> 00:02:43,440 define careers and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 52 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,400 anywhere else. So let's get into it because we 53 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:47,960 love. Track and field. 54 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,000 My guest for today's episode is Sarah Hall, a 220 marathoner, 55 00:02:53,240 --> 00:02:55,920 the former American record holder in the half marathon and 56 00:02:55,920 --> 00:03:00,000 the runner up at the 2020 London Marathon, which remains the best 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:03,240 performance by an American woman in that race since Dina Castor's 58 00:03:03,280 --> 00:03:06,960 victory in 2006. She has been competing at the 59 00:03:06,960 --> 00:03:09,520 highest level of the sport for more than two decades, and 60 00:03:09,520 --> 00:03:13,280 somehow, at 43, she's running more marathons than ever. 61 00:03:13,800 --> 00:03:16,240 Sarah just ran the Boston Marathon and finished in two 62 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,640 hours, 31 minutes, her fifth marathon in six months. 63 00:03:19,920 --> 00:03:23,480 And one day after crossing that finish line, her debut memoir 64 00:03:23,520 --> 00:03:26,240 hit shelves. It's called For the Love of the 65 00:03:26,240 --> 00:03:29,320 Grind, and if you're expecting it to be this highlight reel of 66 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,320 an athlete's greatest moments, you're actually going to be 67 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,600 quite surprised. Sarah goes into the doubts, the 68 00:03:34,600 --> 00:03:38,480 disordered eating, the ego, the psychedelics, the cost of 69 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,760 ambition on the people she loves the most, and what it actually 70 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:44,480 took to keep believing in herself through two decades of 71 00:03:44,480 --> 00:03:47,440 professional running. That's all through missing 72 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,280 Olympic teams, making the adjustment to the wave of super 73 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:54,080 shoes hitting the sport, and grinding through some long entry 74 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:57,000 stretches. The book opens with that 2020 75 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:59,960 London Marathon back in the COVID bubble. 76 00:04:00,280 --> 00:04:03,680 It was a day where the course consisted of 21 loops outside of 77 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,520 Buckingham Palace. She was alone in the wind, in 78 00:04:06,520 --> 00:04:08,160 the rain, thinking about dropping out. 79 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,640 But she uses that moment as a lens for everything that came 80 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,680 before it and everything that followed it. 81 00:04:13,880 --> 00:04:16,959 The book is honest in ways that will catch you off guard. 82 00:04:16,959 --> 00:04:20,600 It makes the case that longevity in this sport is not just a 83 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,080 physical story. It's equal parts mental, 84 00:04:23,320 --> 00:04:26,680 emotional, and spiritual too. In this conversation, we talk 85 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,720 about the writing process. Both Sarah and I share the same 86 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,600 literary agent. She shares her goals when she 87 00:04:33,600 --> 00:04:37,040 set out to do this, the imposter syndrome that followed, and the 88 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:39,440 decision to publish the book while she's still competing. 89 00:04:39,440 --> 00:04:43,560 Rather than wait for her career to be over, we get into this 90 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:47,120 stretch of marathons that she has just completed, what went 91 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:51,680 wrong in Boston after 16 miles of feeling pretty great, and 92 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,560 what it meant to watch your daughter Hannah cross that same 93 00:04:54,560 --> 00:04:58,280 finish line on the same day. So without further ado, here is 94 00:04:58,560 --> 00:05:12,600 author Sarah Hall. All right, now we welcome on 95 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,320 Sarah Hall. First off, lots of things to 96 00:05:15,320 --> 00:05:17,960 celebrate one happy belated birthday. 97 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:23,480 Thank you. 2 Happy publication week of For the Love of the 98 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,680 Grind. The book is out now for people 99 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:29,760 to go out and get their hands on, whether it's in bookstores. 100 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:33,920 The audio book, which you recorded, is also out. 101 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,760 But yeah, I mean, how exciting has it been? 102 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:39,720 And on top of that, running the Boston Marathon, you had a lot 103 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,000 of things going on. It was a big week. 104 00:05:42,000 --> 00:05:45,560 The 5th marathon in six months with a book launch was like, 105 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:47,880 pretty ambitious. Yeah. 106 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,480 And but I'm, I feel so good to have the book out there. 107 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,640 It's just so fun to see people being like, I ordered this in 108 00:05:54,640 --> 00:05:57,520 August and it's finally here and just like what they're getting 109 00:05:57,520 --> 00:06:00,000 out of it already, they're just messaging me. 110 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:01,920 I'm on chapter 3 and I love this part. 111 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,960 And yeah, I don't know. As you know, so much goes into 112 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:06,200 it. I have so much respect for what 113 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,720 you guys do as writers and journalists now cuz man, it was 114 00:06:09,720 --> 00:06:11,760 a ton of work, but it's really rewarding. 115 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:16,640 Did a birthday celebration, I guess like also double as like a 116 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,200 little bit of a book launch party or are you trying to, you 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:24,560 had, I guess, one event last night out in New Hampshire. 118 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,160 How are we celebrating all of these different things? 119 00:06:27,600 --> 00:06:30,040 The birthday, just, I don't know, I've never been a huge 120 00:06:30,040 --> 00:06:32,360 birthday person. I'm like, why do people need to 121 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:34,520 like celebrate my birth? You know, it just feels kind of 122 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,040 narcissistic. But but yeah, so we were just 123 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,400 kind of dialed for Boston at that point and it was kind of 124 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:43,040 the calm before the storm. It was the day before I left and 125 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:47,080 I just wanted to pack and stuff. So, so it's been very much 126 00:06:47,080 --> 00:06:50,160 focused more on the the race number one and then the book. 127 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:54,440 So let's, I guess, dive into just sort of a little bit of the 128 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:58,720 process of writing this book. Then we'll get into a little bit 129 00:06:58,720 --> 00:07:01,880 of reflecting on the Boston Marathon race that just took 130 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,400 place. But you and I share the same 131 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:09,320 literary agent, Daniel Greenberg, phenomenal agent and 132 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,720 has been just sort of super instrumental in just the process 133 00:07:12,720 --> 00:07:16,240 of, you know, just like you. I guess for me, my first time 134 00:07:16,240 --> 00:07:18,040 ever sitting down to write a book. 135 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:21,560 But I remember for on my side of things early on, it was just 136 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:24,480 like a coffee meeting asking me if I ever would have, you know, 137 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:28,200 consider writing a running book And it you know, it was 138 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:31,080 definitely like on my list, but juggling so many different 139 00:07:31,080 --> 00:07:34,720 things, getting Sidious kind of off and running once I decided 140 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:36,600 to go full time, like that took precedent. 141 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:39,200 And so I finally found a good time for it. 142 00:07:39,200 --> 00:07:42,560 But he was always so supportive and just sort of like, no, I 143 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:46,640 think like you've got one in audience and 2A unique, you 144 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:50,320 know, vantage point to storytelling around running or 145 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:53,160 track. And so do you remember, I guess 146 00:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,200 sort of like your first conversation with Daniel and 147 00:07:56,200 --> 00:07:59,440 just sort of like where you wanted to kind of take things? 148 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,480 Yeah, yeah, it's fun that we ended up with Daniel and I want 149 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:05,360 to hear yeah, it's just so much more about your process 150 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:08,360 sometime. But I was connected to him via 151 00:08:08,360 --> 00:08:10,480 Sarah Slattery. So her and Molly Huddle wrote 152 00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,720 how she did it and they actually worked with his partner. 153 00:08:15,000 --> 00:08:18,720 And so I started with her and then she said she was talking to 154 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:22,520 Daniel about my, my story. And he, he'd followed my career 155 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:24,040 and he got really excited. And he's like, and there was 156 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:26,720 this race and this moment and, and she's like, OK, you need to 157 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,120 represent Sarah because you really love her story. 158 00:08:29,120 --> 00:08:32,520 And, and it was really helpful because Daniel's really, he's 159 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:34,280 really honest. Do you know, he's very like a 160 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,159 straight shooter. And so I, I had just some 161 00:08:38,159 --> 00:08:40,280 imposter syndrome. Like, do I even have enough for 162 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:41,760 a book? Like have I accomplished enough 163 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:44,560 to have a memoir? And, and like, am IA good enough 164 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:47,280 writer to write it myself, you know, all these doubts, like as 165 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,840 in my career I've had. And, and he was really good at, 166 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:53,880 at first, you know, I sent him my proposal and he was like, 167 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,480 this reads like a Wikipedia page to me. 168 00:08:56,480 --> 00:08:59,800 And I was like, oh man, I feel like I'm burying my soul on 169 00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:00,920 these pages. Are you serious? 170 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,160 And so I really appreciated that 'cause I feel like I've always 171 00:09:04,160 --> 00:09:07,400 just gotten a really direct answer from him. 172 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:12,880 But he did an amazing job just shopping it to the right people. 173 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:14,520 And we had a lot of interest in the book. 174 00:09:14,520 --> 00:09:17,720 And that just gave me the confidence that that I did have 175 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:20,320 a story worth telling. And yeah, so I'm really grateful 176 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,480 to them. I find myself doing this a lot 177 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,160 nowadays is when I go into just sort of like a bookstore and I 178 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:30,480 make my way to the sports section and I kind of look and 179 00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:33,640 see just sort of what's on like the running shelves right now. 180 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,600 And so there's obviously like a ton of, you know, advanced 181 00:09:36,600 --> 00:09:39,960 marathoning seems to be in all of them and a couple different, 182 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:44,360 you know, training guides. And then it's I guess in the 183 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,160 last decade or so, there's just been so many more memoirs. 184 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:52,880 Mebs got multiple books. Des, Kara, Dina all have these 185 00:09:52,880 --> 00:09:55,400 books out there. So when you were just sort of 186 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,160 outlining sort of your own story, what did you want to 187 00:09:58,560 --> 00:10:00,760 present in it that would be different? 188 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,920 I guess it is your story, but beyond that, I guess like 189 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,720 looking to stand out on that shelf. 190 00:10:06,200 --> 00:10:10,200 Yeah, I think my story is different in that it's really 191 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:13,080 focused on longevity, right. Like that's what I kind of get 192 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,280 asked most from people is how are you still doing this at 43 193 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,760 at this level? Or like, why like how are you 194 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,800 motivated? How are like, how are you 195 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:25,000 enjoying the sport still at this this much or how like wanting to 196 00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:27,080 train as hard as you do at this point? 197 00:10:27,200 --> 00:10:29,840 It was so funny. I was at Manchester Road race 198 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:34,880 and Ian Brooks was was there and he's like, aren't you tired? 199 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:37,120 Like it? Don't you just want to take a, 200 00:10:37,200 --> 00:10:38,840 you know, kick back now? But. 201 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:41,960 And so, yeah, people are like, I've just had a lot of followers 202 00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:44,880 over the years be like, we want to read your book, write your 203 00:10:44,880 --> 00:10:45,840 book. And that just gave me the 204 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,840 confidence that, yeah, that people would want to read it. 205 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:53,320 And yeah, my stories look different, right? 206 00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:58,120 It's not a hero's story of like everything going my way, like 207 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,760 making every Olympic team, you know, quite the opposite in some 208 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:04,480 ways, but I think it, it's probably a little more relatable 209 00:11:04,480 --> 00:11:08,880 to most runners out there. And, and I felt like I'd learned 210 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:13,640 a lot of things both physically, mentally, emotionally, you know, 211 00:11:13,640 --> 00:11:15,760 all the things that went into longevity. 212 00:11:15,760 --> 00:11:17,760 Like I wanted to share those with people so they could 213 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:20,360 continue to love the sport, continue to do it for many 214 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,400 years. You know, all these Boston 215 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:26,240 Marathon age groupers out here, Like I felt like I had a lot to 216 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:31,200 share with them of, of what I've what's what's coming into my 217 00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,400 longevity thus far. So so yeah, that's that's the 218 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:36,800 main goal. When did you start to feel 219 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,440 throughout your career, because it, you know, has spent so many 220 00:11:39,440 --> 00:11:43,320 different chapters on the track, switching events and then 221 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:46,440 eventually moving up to the marathon, that there was just 222 00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:49,080 sort of this bigger spotlight on you? 223 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:53,200 Because, you know, I look at it sometimes from social media or 224 00:11:53,200 --> 00:11:57,160 podcast analytics and I can always tell that, you know, most 225 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,560 times, you know, someone could be super successful as a track 226 00:12:00,560 --> 00:12:02,840 athlete, but it doesn't necessarily resonate with the 227 00:12:02,840 --> 00:12:05,680 masses of runners that are out there. 228 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:10,000 And marathoners in particular tend to be more popular. 229 00:12:11,440 --> 00:12:14,600 When did you sort of start to feel, I guess like more people 230 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:18,160 paying attention to to your own sort of career and and and 231 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:20,160 story? Yeah, that's a good question. 232 00:12:21,120 --> 00:12:25,280 I feel like because I've been running at a high level since I 233 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:26,960 was young. You know, I won the Foot Locker 234 00:12:26,960 --> 00:12:30,840 National championship in high school and there's been few 235 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,880 people following my career now for almost 3 decades. 236 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:38,960 And so you're you have the the people that are my age or older 237 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,120 that Remember Me from then. And but then you have like the 238 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:44,080 young ones that are seeing your more recent performances. 239 00:12:44,080 --> 00:12:47,040 And so so that's what's I think been fun. 240 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:50,040 You know, I had people at the book event last night that were 241 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,960 on world teams with me 20 years ago that came out and I hadn't 242 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:57,640 seen since then. But but I would say the biggest 243 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:00,560 jump in my following happened in the London Marathon. 244 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:04,680 And I think that's what I've seen is, you know, I think in 245 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:08,440 the sport, it's not necessarily like the times you run or 246 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,040 finishing really high. It's more like the moments, like 247 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,680 a moment that sticks with people. 248 00:13:13,680 --> 00:13:18,520 And I think, I think what people felt for me in that moment has 249 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:21,520 has stuck. And I think that's really like 250 00:13:21,760 --> 00:13:23,240 what people are looking for, right? 251 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:25,800 Is like, what do they feel when they see you compete? 252 00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:29,480 And yeah, I don't know. I mean, I don't want to like, 253 00:13:29,480 --> 00:13:33,560 say, but I would say people, they do feel like the joy I have 254 00:13:33,560 --> 00:13:38,000 for competing and training. And I think that moment kind of 255 00:13:38,000 --> 00:13:40,920 transcended outside the running world where I had a lot of 256 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:43,760 people messaging me and they're like, I'm not even a runner, but 257 00:13:43,760 --> 00:13:47,480 I saw this clip and it I'm a single dad and it just helped me 258 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,720 get through like another day. That was really hard. 259 00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:51,520 And so thank you for like this moment. 260 00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:53,040 And it was in the middle of COVID. 261 00:13:53,040 --> 00:13:56,320 You know, we were all in a really tough mental place with 262 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,200 that too. And so it's just the timing of 263 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:00,200 that. But I would say, yeah, that was 264 00:14:00,640 --> 00:14:02,720 that was like a big moment in my career for sure. 265 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,560 It's the scene that you choose to open the book with. 266 00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:09,640 And you know, it was, it was cool to kind of through your 267 00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:13,480 words transport back into that time because although it feels 268 00:14:13,480 --> 00:14:17,560 like it was just yesterday, it has already been sort of six 269 00:14:17,560 --> 00:14:20,040 years. But was it always sort of in 270 00:14:20,040 --> 00:14:23,080 your first draft or when you started writing, Was London 271 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:25,400 always where you started typing away? 272 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:28,760 Yeah, so the first chapter is me preparing for London up in 273 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:32,280 Crested Butte and I definitely wanted to bring some of the 274 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:36,520 later parts of my story earlier. I wanted to find a way to not 275 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:38,320 just move chronologically. And. 276 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:42,520 And so I have kind of this big first chapter, middle chapter, 277 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:45,400 last chapter are in present tense and then the rest is in 278 00:14:45,400 --> 00:14:48,240 past tense. And that was an idea actually 279 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,680 from a writer that I started working with in the beginning. 280 00:14:50,680 --> 00:14:54,120 So I really am thankful for his vision for that because that's 281 00:14:54,120 --> 00:14:56,240 where, you know, I don't have the expertise. 282 00:14:56,240 --> 00:14:59,320 He's a Pulitzer Prize winning journalist. 283 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:05,800 And so so yeah, I think to me, London really sums up who I am 284 00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,840 as a runner. And, and I think what makes my 285 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:11,760 story different and I think it's the whole back story, right? 286 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,960 It's dropping out of the 2020 marathon Olympic trials as the 287 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,400 race before that and then continuing to find a way to 288 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:23,720 grind and enjoy training despite not knowing when I would ever 289 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,920 have an opportunity to race, you know, and then getting this race 290 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:30,360 to run this opportunity to run the London Marathon at a time 291 00:15:30,360 --> 00:15:34,120 where there's no other races and, and being ready for it at 292 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,520 that time. And but then even that race 293 00:15:36,520 --> 00:15:38,400 itself, right? Like I almost dropped out of the 294 00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:42,520 race because I I wasn't, I thought American record shape. 295 00:15:42,520 --> 00:15:45,600 And it was not a great opportunity to run the American 296 00:15:45,600 --> 00:15:47,160 record. It was I was running completely 297 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:51,160 alone on these one mile loops outside of Buckingham Palace. 298 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,000 It was rainy and windy and and I was just in no man's land 299 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,720 feeling sorry for myself. And so, yeah, there's just so 300 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,760 much that went into that race that yeah, I feel like that that 301 00:16:02,760 --> 00:16:05,520 was an important through line because it I think it sums up 302 00:16:05,600 --> 00:16:08,920 the theme of the book too. The key thing with writing a 303 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:12,880 memoir is that you just have to spend a long time with your past 304 00:16:12,880 --> 00:16:16,880 self until you like kind of fully understand them and then 305 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:19,560 have to translate all of that into paper. 306 00:16:19,560 --> 00:16:25,280 So what version of Sarah did you find the hardest to spend time 307 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:27,360 with while reflecting and writing? 308 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,280 Wow, that's a good question. Yeah, I, you know, I think it's 309 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,320 like a public figure professional athlete, you know, 310 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,480 you kind of, you have to decide how vulnerable you want to be, 311 00:16:35,480 --> 00:16:37,000 right? Because you want to be like the 312 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:39,880 hero or people like someone people look up to and you want 313 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,280 to be liked, right. So it's like, how much are you 314 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:45,120 going to share this unlikable side of you, you know? 315 00:16:45,120 --> 00:16:49,960 And so I tried to be as vulnerable as I could in there. 316 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,400 I would say the only limitations are like, maybe something I want 317 00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,920 my kids to read or like, you know, I think there's just a 318 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:58,560 few, you know. Yeah. 319 00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,400 But in general, like I talk about having some disordered 320 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:03,720 eating in high school that, you know, I haven't talked a lot 321 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:07,359 about publicly. I talk about doing psychedelics, 322 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:10,960 like doing magic mushrooms in there, you know, stuff that I, I 323 00:17:10,960 --> 00:17:13,720 know some of my followers are like, gonna be really opposed 324 00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:15,640 to. And. 325 00:17:15,680 --> 00:17:19,440 But yeah, they were all really important aspects of the story, 326 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:23,359 things that really made me who I am and, and things I really, you 327 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:25,520 know, the mushrooms in particular was, is something I 328 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,920 just believe in so strongly that I was like, whatever cost that I 329 00:17:29,920 --> 00:17:33,600 pay for saying this, like whether it's sponsors or losing 330 00:17:33,600 --> 00:17:35,920 followers or whatever, like it's worth it to me because I know 331 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:40,720 there's going to be people that are helped by these plants, you 332 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,000 know? And, and so I think that's 333 00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,680 really, at the end of the day, like if we can tell our stories 334 00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:49,760 as honestly as possible, that's really how other people can see 335 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,480 themselves in our stories and really like benefit from reading 336 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:54,760 them, you know? Yeah, I want to take a beat 337 00:17:54,760 --> 00:17:58,160 there and just kind of stay on the psychedelic mushrooms part 338 00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:01,320 of it for just a second because it is sort of, I think what, you 339 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,440 know, in these early couple days has been, you know, aggregated 340 00:18:05,440 --> 00:18:08,120 or being pulled initially. It's like, oh, Sarah Hall did 341 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,560 psychedelic mushrooms. And, you know, I think that 342 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:13,880 where it sits in the book, there's just additional context 343 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:16,880 that needs to go around it. So I guess like, what was sort 344 00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:19,680 of, you know, part of your reasoning in coming forward with 345 00:18:19,680 --> 00:18:22,320 that? And then also aside from just 346 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:25,480 sort of that's probably the title on the Let's Run thread, 347 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:29,040 which you write multiple times throughout the book of how you 348 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:35,080 try and avoid that cesspool that I guess what is it that you hope 349 00:18:35,200 --> 00:18:37,960 people actually sort of take away from you including that? 350 00:18:38,360 --> 00:18:40,440 Yeah, well, that's funny that you mentioned that cuz I didn't 351 00:18:40,440 --> 00:18:42,840 even know that existed cuz I don't go on there. 352 00:18:43,760 --> 00:18:46,640 But I assumed right. Like you know it well enough. 353 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,560 And I think you really see my relationship with the media 354 00:18:49,560 --> 00:18:52,360 throughout the book, right? As a as a teenager, that really 355 00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,440 affected me. Like stumbling upon those 356 00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:58,400 message boards as a a 13 year old at a time when honestly it 357 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:00,920 was pre social media. The Internet was really new at 358 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,920 the time. And so that was, you know, as a 359 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,480 13 year old, really intense and really got in my head. 360 00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:10,440 And but now, you know, I can handle it. 361 00:19:10,440 --> 00:19:12,520 Like I'm I'm 30 years older than that. 362 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:17,280 But but yeah, you know, I think, like I said, I really believe 363 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:20,120 in, I believe one, these are plants and, you know, they got 364 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:23,120 classified as drugs. And you can go into why that was 365 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:26,760 and whether they should have been, you know, but I believe 366 00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:28,880 God made these plans for our benefit. 367 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:33,120 And I've seen it in my own life. And I don't even really struggle 368 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:37,120 with depression and anxiety as much as, you know, some in PTSD, 369 00:19:37,120 --> 00:19:40,320 some of these things that people can really, really benefit from 370 00:19:40,320 --> 00:19:41,920 them. But I've seen it in friends 371 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:44,440 lives, like friends that are like, I would not be around 372 00:19:44,440 --> 00:19:46,720 today if I hadn't found mushrooms. 373 00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:50,120 Like 100% would have committed suicide, you know, and, and, and 374 00:19:50,120 --> 00:19:53,000 that's where like, and, and it's people that, you know, 375 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:55,800 antidepressants don't work for because they don't work for 376 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,040 everyone, right? So and pharmaceuticals, they 377 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,640 also always, always have side effects. 378 00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,560 And so so yeah, you know, I think that that was the main 379 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:08,360 motivation for sharing it. I do, I think they're becoming 380 00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:11,080 more normalized, especially, yeah, at the time I wrote the 381 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:14,680 book, less so like, but each year they're becoming more 382 00:20:14,680 --> 00:20:18,000 accepted, They're becoming less, they're more legalized in their 383 00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,360 certain settings. So like therapeutic settings in 384 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,760 certain states, in certain states or cities, they're 385 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:25,680 decriminalizing them all together. 386 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,880 So they're not necessarily legal, but they're 387 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,880 decriminalized. And so I think it's it's kind of 388 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:33,760 probably like marijuana where it's just going to continue to 389 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,240 eventually change maybe state by state. 390 00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:40,920 And so, yeah, man, we could talk to the whole podcast probably on 391 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:46,000 psychedelics. But yeah, it's, I don't know. 392 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:47,920 I just hope that I can plant the seed it. 393 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:49,560 Took some people by surprise for sure. 394 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,600 Yeah. Yeah. 395 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:53,560 I just hope I can plant the seed of. 396 00:20:54,040 --> 00:20:57,040 I don't think I would have been open to them five or six years 397 00:20:57,040 --> 00:20:59,440 ago, right. But like maybe hearing this 398 00:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,440 would have planted this one seed that then later it ends up 399 00:21:03,760 --> 00:21:05,520 coming your way when it's your time. 400 00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:10,240 There's a version of this book that could also have just been 401 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,240 highlights, right? Like you have London 2020, the 402 00:21:14,240 --> 00:21:18,120 American half marathon record, just all of the elements of your 403 00:21:18,120 --> 00:21:20,400 longevity story. But you chose, I guess, not to 404 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,800 just make this all, you know, sunshine and rainbows. 405 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:26,040 So what? Where did you have to go to, I 406 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:30,880 guess mentally in that process when it came to pulling those 407 00:21:30,880 --> 00:21:34,640 uncomfortable parts and putting them like in the book? 408 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:36,760 Yeah, good question. I think. 409 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:40,440 Yeah, it was, it was hard to decide which race I had so many 410 00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:42,120 races, right. It's been 30 years. 411 00:21:42,120 --> 00:21:44,600 So you're like which, you know, you want to talk about all of 412 00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,720 them for different reasons, but you have to choose the most 413 00:21:47,720 --> 00:21:51,440 important ones that are really show the messages that you want 414 00:21:51,440 --> 00:21:54,080 to share. And so a lot of that's probably 415 00:21:54,080 --> 00:21:58,640 more bad races and good races in there, but but that's probably 416 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:02,960 been my career too, right. So I think like, yeah, each one 417 00:22:03,040 --> 00:22:06,880 I, I feel like I again, like, I want it, you want to be the 418 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,520 hero. But a lot of times I struggled 419 00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,320 with so much doubt and insecurity and imposter syndrome 420 00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:16,920 in my career and, and is also in my process becoming a mom, 421 00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:19,640 right? Or I became a mom overnight to 4 422 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:23,680 biological sisters from Ethiopia and really didn't know if I had 423 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:27,320 what it took to do that, but just kind of said yes and walked 424 00:22:27,320 --> 00:22:32,200 it out one day at a time. And, and yeah, I think, you 425 00:22:32,200 --> 00:22:34,960 know, you see, I you see my thought process with all of it. 426 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:39,920 You see how I got to the point where I actually believe like 427 00:22:39,920 --> 00:22:42,840 the for me, the biggest take away after writing the book was 428 00:22:43,120 --> 00:22:46,880 man, like I really believed in myself this whole time. 429 00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:49,080 Like they're. And it's like, I think, I think 430 00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:52,240 of, you know, Ryan as being a hero of my story or maybe my 431 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:53,480 chiropractor. That's helped me a lot 432 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,520 physically. But I realized actually, like 433 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,080 I'm the hero of the story, you know, and like, I hope everyone 434 00:23:00,080 --> 00:23:03,480 feels that way about their story, that they're the hero. 435 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:06,920 And, and that was a cool revelation cuz that hadn't hit 436 00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:10,560 me until I finished the process and, and it, and it hadn't, I 437 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:13,560 hadn't realized how much I believed in myself even amidst 438 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:17,440 all the doubts at every stage, like there was an underlying 439 00:23:17,440 --> 00:23:21,120 belief that was always there. And that was really cool, like 440 00:23:21,120 --> 00:23:27,360 to just just have like have that revelation and and I think that 441 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:30,080 keeps me going like, you know, getting out there at the lead 442 00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:31,720 pack as long as I could in Boston. 443 00:23:31,760 --> 00:23:36,720 Yes, Monday, you know, so, yeah. I guess in those early sort of 444 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:41,200 chapters where you get into your relationship with Ryan and the 445 00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:44,400 two of you kind of going about those early years of your 446 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,520 professional career. How there was just sort of like 447 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:53,520 this kind of rigid script to what a supportive wife or woman 448 00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:56,000 was supposed to be. That even at that time was just 449 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,800 sort of like still hanging over like Ryan's having this so, you 450 00:24:00,800 --> 00:24:03,800 know, successful start to his professional career. 451 00:24:04,080 --> 00:24:07,880 And, you know, at one point, I think you said it was like I was 452 00:24:07,880 --> 00:24:10,120 just sort of being seen as Ryan's wife. 453 00:24:10,120 --> 00:24:13,200 But you were also in the beginning of your professional 454 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:13,800 career. I guess. 455 00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,680 What did it really take for you to kind of break out of that and 456 00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:21,800 then start to, you know, step into your own, like you just 457 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,520 described, like the hero of your own story? 458 00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:25,680 Like, when did that? How long did that process sort 459 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:28,240 of take? It was an evolving process for 460 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,800 sure. You know, I grew up conservative 461 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,400 Christian family, so did Ryan. I'm really thankful for that. 462 00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:37,320 Like I'm thankful for so much of what I got in the church and and 463 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:41,560 for my parents and but there was really traditional gender roles 464 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,560 in there as well. And I think in in the 465 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,320 Christianity I grew up with, you know, a woman, what's praised is 466 00:24:49,320 --> 00:24:51,960 like being a servant, like serving your family, being 467 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:54,160 selfless. And I think there's a lot of 468 00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:57,120 real like beauty in that, right? And as a professional athlete, 469 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:00,480 having more selflessness is good, right? 470 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,840 Because so much of your life revolves around yourself. 471 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,440 So you do want to find ways to be selfless. 472 00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:09,360 Like I think that's a good balance, but but it also just 473 00:25:09,360 --> 00:25:13,400 created a a tension for me where I didn't feel like I could 474 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:17,120 necessarily have like give myself to this professional 475 00:25:17,120 --> 00:25:19,680 career. Like I should just be supporting 476 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,120 Ryan. And that was really influenced 477 00:25:21,120 --> 00:25:24,120 by a lot of voices from family. Like why is Sarah still doing 478 00:25:24,120 --> 00:25:25,880 this? Especially because maybe I 479 00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:27,640 wasn't as successful at his level. 480 00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,920 And, and at the same time, you know, I was making world teams 481 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:33,360 in indoor track. Like I was winning the comedy 482 00:25:33,360 --> 00:25:35,320 mile. I was winning the US 5K champs. 483 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:39,400 Like it wasn't all failure to it just wasn't, you know, Ryan was 484 00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:42,600 setting American records and he was just at another level. 485 00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:47,800 And so so yeah, I really struggled with like, can I 486 00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:51,400 still, is it still worth it for me to do this? 487 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:55,800 Like, am I justified in doing this, especially when you have 488 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,000 authority figures and and family? 489 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,840 And even our shared agent at the time was very much trying to 490 00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,960 protect his like once in generation talent of Ryan, you 491 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,600 know, and he was like, don't go to Sarah's race, you know, stay 492 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:10,560 up at altitude. And and then I'd win the US 493 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,400 cross country nationals and I was like, so glad Ryan was 494 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,400 there, right? But but like he was having 495 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:18,800 family members in our agent telling him not to be there. 496 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:22,680 And so it was tough. And and I think I just was used 497 00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:26,160 to being the star myself too. Like I, like I was more 498 00:26:26,160 --> 00:26:28,920 successful in some ways than Ryan in high school and and in 499 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,720 college. And so, so, yeah, it was like 500 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,760 times where people would want a photo with him and he they'd 501 00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:37,440 like hand me the camera, right? Which is funny because actually 502 00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:39,160 that like happens to him mostly now. 503 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,800 So it's like payback. But but yeah, you're just kind 504 00:26:42,800 --> 00:26:44,360 of like, OK, I'm I'm the wife now. 505 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,120 Like I'm the, I'm the one taking the photo, right. 506 00:26:47,120 --> 00:26:51,880 And but yeah, it was, I think the biggest thing was honestly, 507 00:26:51,880 --> 00:26:56,080 Ryan never like thought of my career as any less like he 508 00:26:56,080 --> 00:27:00,320 supported me unconditionally. He never once told me maybe it's 509 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,600 time to hang it up, you know, And even when I got last place 510 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:08,360 at the US nationals track in in track in the 5K, he was never 511 00:27:08,360 --> 00:27:09,800 like, you know, you give it a good run. 512 00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:14,320 Let's just, you know, he he was always like, hey, like I believe 513 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:15,960 in you. There's more ahead if you want 514 00:27:15,960 --> 00:27:17,560 to do this, like whatever you want to do. 515 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:21,040 And and then, yeah, I think there was just always a glimmer 516 00:27:21,040 --> 00:27:23,280 of belief in myself that kept me going. 517 00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:28,520 And I think just with age and, and I've start, I started to 518 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,600 just evolve in my own beliefs of what a woman's role should be 519 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:36,720 right is should there even be a role for genders and just feel 520 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,760 more empowered to pursue the things in my heart. 521 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:44,200 And, and I think I just saw more meaning in my career beyond the 522 00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,920 results to and saw like who I'm becoming through running, right? 523 00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:52,560 And that that's just as important as an external result. 524 00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:55,800 And yeah. And then as a mom, it was a 525 00:27:55,800 --> 00:28:00,360 whole another level of expectation and another level of 526 00:28:00,360 --> 00:28:02,960 why are you still doing this if you have 4 kids and they have 527 00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,480 unique needs, right? And so I had to face that kind 528 00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,920 of all over again. But I talk a lot about it in the 529 00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,040 book. Just my internal wrestling with 530 00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:15,360 that, but also what I saw the benefits of doing it while 531 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,320 having kids, like the things I got to model to them and the 532 00:28:18,320 --> 00:28:22,120 things they were catching just from watching me do this. 533 00:28:22,120 --> 00:28:24,000 And so. So yeah, there's a lot that went 534 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:27,640 into it. But but yeah, it was it was a 535 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:29,040 big process. It still is a process. 536 00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:30,920 You know, you still deal with the mom guilt. 537 00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,240 And I'm here on the road away from my family this week for 538 00:28:34,240 --> 00:28:38,840 this book, you know, but but yeah, it's, it's a worthwhile 539 00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:41,240 process of trying to be intentional about that. 540 00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:43,840 I think a lot of people are. We're all trying to figure it 541 00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,320 out. And that's why I wanted to talk 542 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:48,160 a lot about it. This episode of the City Smack 543 00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:53,760 podcast is supported by Wahoo. You've got 26.2 miles of work. 544 00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,120 Heartbreak Hill, the Newton Hills that long grinding stretch 545 00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:02,720 from mile 16 to 20. 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That's Citius 25 for 25% off at 619 00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,160 drinklollipop.com. I cannot believe how strong our 620 00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,160 partnership with Lollipop has been over the years. 621 00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:02,680 We're going to keep this thing going. 622 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,120 We've made it the. Runner's Soda. 623 00:33:09,560 --> 00:33:12,600 You went through the adoption process and it was coming sort 624 00:33:12,600 --> 00:33:17,160 of like around the same time as you diving full into your 625 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:19,800 marathoning chapter of your career. 626 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:23,720 What is it about, I guess parenting that has taught you 627 00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,320 about, I guess to pull from the title, the grind that marathon 628 00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,680 training or running at such a high level can't teach you? 629 00:33:32,040 --> 00:33:34,320 Yeah, I mean, I kind of did this in reverse, right? 630 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:37,240 Most people start their family like after their career. 631 00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:41,280 And I adopted the girls right before my second marathon. 632 00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:45,440 We decided to adopt them right before my first marathon. 633 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,520 And then that was really the start of my marathon career. 634 00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:52,120 And I'm, you know, 2 1/2 years to be in an empty nester, which 635 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,000 is like probably when I'm going to be about done like running 636 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,040 marathons really seriously. You know, So it's I'm like, man, 637 00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,120 it's actually going to be kind of easy to do this. 638 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,080 But I'll be, I'll be like, you know, at that point, 639 00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:07,080 unfortunately. But yeah, I think parenting, it 640 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:11,159 teaches you a lot about selflessness, which I think is 641 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:14,120 really like I said, a good balance to running. 642 00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:19,040 I think, I think being self-centered is like the most 643 00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:21,719 the quickest way to unhappiness, honestly. 644 00:34:21,719 --> 00:34:24,440 I think like, and you see that, I mean, pro athletes, they're 645 00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:26,440 not like the happiest people, right? 646 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,560 Like always. I think not, not as always, but 647 00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:31,520 like as a whole. I think when you're really 648 00:34:31,520 --> 00:34:35,280 focused on yourself, that doesn't, that doesn't usually 649 00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,120 lead to like the most joyful life. 650 00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:42,639 And so I feel like that was the greatest, as as hard as it was 651 00:34:42,639 --> 00:34:47,280 to juggle both things, I think it, it made my life so much 652 00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,040 richer and more fulfilling. But similar to running I there's 653 00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:53,920 so many parallels to parenting and running. 654 00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,520 Like you have to take it one day at a time. 655 00:34:56,520 --> 00:35:00,520 Like with my kids, I didn't necessarily feel super connected 656 00:35:00,520 --> 00:35:03,160 to them right away. I wasn't biologically related to 657 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:05,280 them. I, my daughter was 16. 658 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,320 She was a woman when we adopted her practically and she didn't 659 00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,160 feel like my daughter, right. But you just show up every day. 660 00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:17,160 You put in the work like, and you, you do your very best like, 661 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:19,480 because they deserve it. And it's a lot like training, 662 00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:23,680 you know, And I think that's why we felt like we were uniquely 663 00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:28,720 maybe able to try to take this on just because of what we did, 664 00:35:28,720 --> 00:35:30,560 that we, we knew how to stick in there. 665 00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:33,560 We knew how to just even when things were tough, like how to 666 00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,320 gut it out one mile at a time, like a marathon. 667 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:38,880 And, and yeah, that's how it felt at times. 668 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,400 And then there's a lot of times like right now it's just it's 669 00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:45,240 really easy and fun and and it's like, yeah, just getting to 670 00:35:45,240 --> 00:35:49,160 enjoy like the like all the hard training you put in and then you 671 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:52,440 go and enjoy it on race day. It almost feels now like that 672 00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:55,640 where we're just flowing as a family and they're at a fun 673 00:35:55,640 --> 00:35:59,600 stage where we're, you know, we call each other bra and like 674 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:03,360 we're like sharing pop songs like cuz I have like teenage 675 00:36:03,360 --> 00:36:07,480 music tastes apparently. And it's it's super fun and a 676 00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:11,560 lot easier. Those trips to Ethiopia all 677 00:36:11,560 --> 00:36:14,280 throughout your career, I guess, you know, when you were 678 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:19,440 training, understanding how, you know, the girls lived and you 679 00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:23,640 know you were coming in there. What was it that Ethiopia, I 680 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,920 guess, showed you about the running world that you don't 681 00:36:26,920 --> 00:36:31,600 necessarily get in Flagstaff, Crescent Butte or these big 682 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,920 running hubs that we have here in the United States? 683 00:36:34,440 --> 00:36:37,200 Yeah, Ethiopia is my favorite part of the book, honestly. 684 00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,200 Like I, I feel like that was, I was really excited to share more 685 00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,800 about what training there was actually like as part of a team, 686 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:46,320 right? Like I wasn't like some people 687 00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:49,760 go to E10 and they kind of like join in a little bit or like do 688 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,600 their own training. But like I was actually embraced 689 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,800 by one of the teams there and got to like really see how they 690 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,000 trained. And actually the coach Hajis, I 691 00:36:58,000 --> 00:37:00,480 see him at all these major marathons and I'm like coach 692 00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,920 like, so yeah, I got to spend a lot of time during the adoption 693 00:37:04,920 --> 00:37:07,280 process. We spent every other month over 694 00:37:07,280 --> 00:37:08,760 there. And then we've gone back 695 00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:12,000 numerous times since finishing the adoption process. 696 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:15,320 And anytime I'm in town, I join in with Haji's team. 697 00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:20,360 And and it taught me a lot about the grind, honestly. 698 00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:25,400 Like, I think it really shifted my perspective of hard work, 699 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,360 honestly. Like I think and not that we are 700 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:31,320 American marathon culture, we don't work hard, but it was like 701 00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:35,840 another level of density of intensity. 702 00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,200 You know, like, like Monday, I mentioned the very first day I 703 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:43,640 showed up at training and they said it was an easy run and 704 00:37:44,040 --> 00:37:47,360 everyone got dropped on the easy run except one person, like 705 00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:49,800 finished with the pacemaker. You know, then we're working out 706 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,000 the next day and it was going to be a hard workout. 707 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:56,080 And, and I really feel like I've learned a lot from their 708 00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:58,360 mentality. They have this phrase Birchy, 709 00:37:58,360 --> 00:38:01,080 which I mentioned in the book, and it means be strong. 710 00:38:01,080 --> 00:38:03,000 And they're constantly saying it to each other. 711 00:38:03,000 --> 00:38:07,800 And if you even the slightest gap opens up between you and the 712 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,120 person in front of you because they run on top of each other in 713 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:15,160 these lines in every single run and every single workout, which 714 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,640 we're not used to, right? We just like, we run side by 715 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:19,520 side, chatting the whole time there. 716 00:38:19,520 --> 00:38:23,200 It's like silence and you're running like right behind 717 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:24,960 someone. And so I can see why they're 718 00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,200 comfortable on the track and in these marathons, like in the 719 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:31,280 pack, because they do that day in, day out. 720 00:38:31,280 --> 00:38:33,720 And I wasn't, you know, used to it. 721 00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:36,600 And so I would let little gaps open up so I can see the footing 722 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,560 below me. And they're like birchy, birchy 723 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:41,920 like like go like, like thinking I'm getting dropped, you know. 724 00:38:42,440 --> 00:38:46,520 And so it really, yeah, there's so many things I feel like I 725 00:38:46,520 --> 00:38:50,080 gained from training there mentally and physically and 726 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:53,840 mentally it was getting comfortable being uncomfortable 727 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,600 cuz pretty much everything about training there was uncomfortable 728 00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:58,720 to me. Like, yeah, so the easy run, I'm 729 00:38:58,720 --> 00:39:00,720 having to be right up on someone. 730 00:39:00,720 --> 00:39:02,880 I can't even see the footing. It's, it's really uneven 731 00:39:02,880 --> 00:39:04,560 footing. It's 9000 feet. 732 00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,160 It's really difficult, you know, it's grass. 733 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,360 And then the workouts are just so chaotic compared to Lake Mary 734 00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:14,800 Rd. where we have this nice wide shoulder and it's peaceful and 735 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,280 there it's like cars are coming this close to hitting you. 736 00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:22,640 They're like they're just buses are blowing exhaust all over 737 00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,480 you. Once these girls got in a 738 00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:28,680 fistfight at a a bottle like station because I don't know, 739 00:39:28,680 --> 00:39:31,080 maybe one trip, the other one or something, they just broke out 740 00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:33,480 fighting. And so I felt like there was 741 00:39:33,480 --> 00:39:36,720 just like constant chaos that you're kind of managing. 742 00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:40,520 And but it really taught me how to just keep my peace amidst it 743 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:44,600 all and manage the chaos of a race, which felt a lot more 744 00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,760 peaceful than a lot of those workouts, honestly. 745 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,240 Yeah, no, those were such vivid scenes all throughout the 746 00:39:51,240 --> 00:39:54,200 Ethiopia section of the book that like it's definitely still 747 00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:57,800 like on the top of my bucket list to find a way to get out 748 00:39:57,800 --> 00:39:59,320 there. You mentioned I guess like that 749 00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,720 was your favorite, you know, part of the book to write What 750 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,680 what took the longest or what was the hardest or both? 751 00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:10,880 I guess like the the same in in like, yeah, I guess like what 752 00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,720 was the hardest and what took the longest to write? 753 00:40:13,400 --> 00:40:16,000 The hardest was just deciding how to talk about some 754 00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:20,000 challenges I experienced with my daughters, mainly because, you 755 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:23,120 know, I wanted to give them a level of privacy, but the same 756 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:25,560 time I couldn't not share these things. 757 00:40:25,560 --> 00:40:28,280 Like they really affected my story, especially. 758 00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:32,840 I had a daughter go through a really scary psychiatric illness 759 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:34,560 like right before the Olympic trials. 760 00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,520 And, you know, I also wanted to be honest about the challenges 761 00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:42,000 of adopting kids that have been through traumatic stuff because 762 00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,520 I feel like, oh, it's all sunshine and rainbows, you know, 763 00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:47,520 like that's not true. And and yet at the same time, 764 00:40:48,240 --> 00:40:49,800 like my kids are my greatest gift. 765 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,840 And they're like, there's been way less of that than we thought 766 00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,480 there would be. Like, I really thought I 767 00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,200 wouldn't be able to do this career when I adopted my kids. 768 00:40:58,200 --> 00:41:02,600 Like, because so many families that had adopted older kids 769 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,680 through traumatic stuff, we talked to them and they're like, 770 00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,160 oh, yeah. Like count the cost because your 771 00:41:08,160 --> 00:41:09,880 career is over. Like there's no way you can do 772 00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:10,680 this. You're going to have to home 773 00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,280 school. You know, these kids have never 774 00:41:12,280 --> 00:41:14,600 been to school. They don't speak English. 775 00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:16,960 There's no way you can put them in school. 776 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:19,760 And and my kids kind of defied the norm at every step. 777 00:41:19,760 --> 00:41:23,480 My 16 year old started school a couple months after coming here 778 00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:27,080 speaking no English at a kindergarten level and just 779 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:30,640 sitting in 8th grade classrooms having no idea what's going on, 780 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,120 you know, And so I'm so proud of them. 781 00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:35,640 They're so resilient. But but yeah, at the same time, 782 00:41:35,640 --> 00:41:40,320 I, you know, I did want to share the challenging moments and some 783 00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,320 of them. And so I think figuring out how 784 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,560 to do that, my kids all read it and approved it. 785 00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:47,840 But I think I was still nervous. Maybe 10 years from now, they'll 786 00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:49,360 wish I hadn't shared certain things. 787 00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,400 And so. So yeah, I think that was the 788 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,720 hardest part. And also just, you know, you go 789 00:41:53,720 --> 00:41:57,480 through hard things with coaches or family members and you want 790 00:41:57,480 --> 00:41:59,320 to share those things too, but you still want to be like 791 00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:03,280 honoring to the person because we're all in process, right? 792 00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,240 And I was immature at all these different stages, too. 793 00:42:06,240 --> 00:42:10,680 And so I think just figuring out how to just talk about those 794 00:42:10,680 --> 00:42:15,280 things. Well, and the thing that took 795 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:20,080 the longest to write, I don't think anything really did. 796 00:42:20,080 --> 00:42:23,680 I think it all flowed blown out of me how I wanted it to. 797 00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:27,480 And it was just the editing was just, I never, I was like, I 798 00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,400 never want to read this book again, Like I never want to see 799 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:31,720 this again. And then I had to read it for 800 00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:35,920 the audio book and I was like, no, like I can't read this one 801 00:42:35,920 --> 00:42:38,680 more time, but but I'm glad I did. 802 00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:40,880 I'm glad I did the audio book. I think it makes it a lot 803 00:42:40,880 --> 00:42:43,760 better. Yeah, he almost had Aisha 804 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:45,840 Protlier, I guess, like handle it. 805 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,360 And I'm so glad that you came around on doing it yourself. 806 00:42:49,560 --> 00:42:53,040 They book like a week or something in a recording studio. 807 00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:55,600 What was it actually like? I'm looking forward to it. 808 00:42:56,000 --> 00:42:57,640 Oh, are you going to do yours, do you think? 809 00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:02,560 Yeah, so I think like I'm trying to push for a heavier investment 810 00:43:02,560 --> 00:43:05,400 into the actual audio book. And so like, even as I'm doing 811 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,920 interviews, like I'm trying to collect as much clean audio. 812 00:43:08,920 --> 00:43:13,280 And so with with the people that I'm interviewing for certain 813 00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:17,800 chapters that like, hopefully, you know, I can read parts of 814 00:43:17,800 --> 00:43:20,360 it. And then if, for example, it's 815 00:43:20,360 --> 00:43:24,560 MEB telling the story of the 2014 Boston Marathon, we can cut 816 00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:26,720 to actually MEB, you know, talking. 817 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:31,040 About it and so. That's sort of a very ambitious 818 00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:35,080 goal, and I'm gonna do my best to push, you know, my publishers 819 00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,680 on it. But other than that, I think 820 00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:41,520 like, yeah, I will be reading the rest of the the the book, 821 00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:44,760 which I guess like from a marketing purpose is good 822 00:43:44,760 --> 00:43:47,560 because if so many people who are listening to this are just 823 00:43:47,560 --> 00:43:50,680 accustomed to hearing me on a podcast that they'll probably 824 00:43:50,680 --> 00:43:54,040 just naturally gravitate towards an audio book potentially. 825 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,280 So. But yeah, I think for me, I 826 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,080 heard it was going to be like a week long session in a recording 827 00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:01,520 studio. But what was it like for you? 828 00:44:02,080 --> 00:44:04,960 It was 3 or 4 weeks like they said in the beginning, they're 829 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:08,680 like, we just need 30 hours. And I was like, I don't know 830 00:44:08,680 --> 00:44:10,840 where I'm going to find 30 hours like I'm training. 831 00:44:10,840 --> 00:44:17,080 And but I, yeah, I listened to Dez's audio book and I feel like 832 00:44:17,080 --> 00:44:20,400 you could just really get her like dry, you know, like her 833 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:23,720 vibe from her reading it. And I was like, you know, people 834 00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,840 aren't going to know where I put the sarcasm or they're not going 835 00:44:26,840 --> 00:44:29,880 to be able to, to say them hard words correctly. 836 00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,120 And so I'm like, OK, like, I'll do it. 837 00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:36,400 And I went to I trekked out to this recording studio out kind 838 00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,240 of in a rural area of Flagstaff. It's part of this person's 839 00:44:39,240 --> 00:44:43,240 house. And it's, it's like a 1970s time 840 00:44:43,240 --> 00:44:45,440 capsule. Like they had the Grateful Dead 841 00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,880 and the Eagles record in there back in the day. 842 00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:50,480 And it was almost like after that they were like, don't touch 843 00:44:50,480 --> 00:44:52,240 anything. Like, we're just keeping this 844 00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:54,800 the same. It was a really like, really 845 00:44:54,800 --> 00:44:59,640 strange place, but but the person that was on there kind of 846 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:01,840 coaching me the whole time, she was really wonderful. 847 00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:06,040 And she really helped me like, hey, let's say this this way 848 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:09,160 again. And but but yeah, you know, 849 00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,480 originally I was like, OK, I'll do it as long as I get to rap 850 00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,360 the Eminem lyrics. And my publisher was like, OK, 851 00:45:16,360 --> 00:45:18,360 you can do it. And but then I get into the 852 00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:20,960 studio and they're like, no, no, no, like that's not allowed for 853 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:23,920 copyright reasons. And I was like, hey, this is 854 00:45:23,920 --> 00:45:27,640 like a bait and switch. That's not what I signed up for. 855 00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:31,800 But so, yeah, unfortunately you won't get me rapping in that. 856 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:35,880 But maybe that'll be like the anniversary edition or something 857 00:45:35,880 --> 00:45:37,960 if I meet Eminem and get his permission. 858 00:45:39,480 --> 00:45:40,440 Yeah, there we go. Yeah. 859 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,680 So I remember that part of the book and I was like, oh, yeah, 860 00:45:42,680 --> 00:45:45,840 this is this is because I think you brought that up in your 861 00:45:45,840 --> 00:45:48,720 interview with Ali. And I was also thinking because, 862 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:52,360 you know, Obama's book, he also I think has like Eminem lyrics 863 00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,360 in there. He did sort of probably like, 864 00:45:55,480 --> 00:45:59,040 yeah, the same exact thing where it's like, I think he he tried, 865 00:45:59,040 --> 00:46:02,400 he just read them. And then someone I think took 866 00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:04,960 that audio portion and then set it to the actual music 867 00:46:04,960 --> 00:46:07,080 somewhere. But maybe we'll have to do that, 868 00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,800 I guess, just to see what, how it all just kind of overlays 869 00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:13,240 over each other. But read the book now. 870 00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,280 Definitely curious. I'll, I'll, I'll have to check 871 00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:18,320 out the the audio book as well to see how it all came together 872 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:21,680 with running memoirs. Like, I guess the, the trend 873 00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:25,240 seems to be a lot of people write them when they're, you 874 00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:30,560 know, careers are mostly over. And I guess part of that is 875 00:46:30,560 --> 00:46:35,120 because they find that Cinderella story to kind of cap 876 00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:37,880 it all off. And as runners, I feel like 877 00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:41,440 we're always selfishly chasing what that might be. 878 00:46:42,040 --> 00:46:45,320 And I even think back to, I mean, this one probably is super 879 00:46:45,320 --> 00:46:49,000 close to home for you with, you know, I'm friends with Tim 880 00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,080 Jeffries. And when he he was working on 881 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:56,000 Ryan's film like the 41st Day, like part of that just sort of 882 00:46:56,000 --> 00:47:01,680 was the initial plan was just film 2012 and the Olympics would 883 00:47:01,680 --> 00:47:05,160 be the momentous Cinderella story ending there. 884 00:47:05,880 --> 00:47:10,320 And the way Ryan's career panned out after that, like it was 885 00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:14,120 just, and I remember just Tim financially having to scrape for 886 00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:18,160 money to try and, you know, follow Ryan along to chase that 887 00:47:18,160 --> 00:47:20,520 ending. And it was hard because it never 888 00:47:20,520 --> 00:47:25,000 really sort of came. And I guess, like with you, I 889 00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:29,480 guess when you were sitting down to find the ending to this book, 890 00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:33,120 like what, where were you hoping to to land? 891 00:47:33,120 --> 00:47:35,880 And I guess the end I think I thought was was awesome, like 892 00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:39,880 the final, you know, chapter and the last couple lines especially 893 00:47:39,920 --> 00:47:41,960 really definitely kind of bring it all home. 894 00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:44,560 Well, thanks for reading the whole book by the way. 895 00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,360 That's like means a lot just associating this age of TikTok 896 00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:50,880 feel like actually reading a book is takes a lot of mental 897 00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:53,960 space. So I think it makes sense with 898 00:47:53,960 --> 00:47:57,000 my story, right, because it's about loving the grind forever 899 00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:01,280 and and and it's still going and it's never going to be over, 900 00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,160 right. So, so yeah, I mean, I did have 901 00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,680 thoughts of maybe there's these epic moments later in my career 902 00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:10,120 that I'd be missing out getting to share. 903 00:48:10,120 --> 00:48:16,480 But but I did feel like I had the story arc that I wanted and 904 00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:20,520 the message that I wanted and I almost felt like I like really 905 00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:21,920 seen it now while I'm still racing. 906 00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:25,960 I would just get to be able to use it as an excuse to go meet 907 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:28,040 people in these races when I was out there racing. 908 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:31,840 And it just felt like, I don't know. 909 00:48:31,840 --> 00:48:33,400 Yeah, it was. It was for a number of reasons, 910 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:35,880 I think. But I think I definitely held 911 00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:39,120 out until the 2024 trials. I was really believing that 912 00:48:39,120 --> 00:48:43,120 would be the Cinderella ending of my career. 913 00:48:43,120 --> 00:48:47,880 And but everyone that reads the book is, is like this 914 00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,840 strengthens your message even more. 915 00:48:49,840 --> 00:48:52,920 You know how it ended up. And, and I think, I think it 916 00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,960 does. And I think All in all, choosing 917 00:48:55,960 --> 00:48:59,080 not to do it at the very end of my career just makes sense 918 00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:02,040 because I want to be out here blowing out the cartilage in my 919 00:49:02,040 --> 00:49:04,920 knees at 8 years old in Boston, you know, like one day. 920 00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,520 And, and so, yeah, it's going to, it's going to be a 921 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,680 different, it's not going to be maybe a career at that point, 922 00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,760 but it's still the love of the grind. 923 00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:16,840 And I think we all can find that in whatever capacity it looks 924 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:18,160 like. And what's cool about our sport 925 00:49:18,160 --> 00:49:22,400 is we're the only ones that can actually do the exact same thing 926 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:24,920 that we used to be doing, right? It's just we're not in the front 927 00:49:24,920 --> 00:49:28,440 anymore, but everything else is like exactly the same, which is 928 00:49:28,440 --> 00:49:31,760 like, that's pretty cool. Yeah, you still see Joni out 929 00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:34,800 there either, you know, running shorter races, but then 930 00:49:34,800 --> 00:49:39,240 occasionally still popping out like a full marathon in crazy 931 00:49:39,240 --> 00:49:42,160 impressive times. So it's like, yeah, it's, you 932 00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:44,440 know, that proof is out there that you can do this for a 933 00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:46,640 really long time. She's incredible. 934 00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:48,640 Yeah, she's, I mean, talk about longevity. 935 00:49:48,640 --> 00:49:51,760 We need another book from her. Yeah, exactly. 936 00:49:52,080 --> 00:49:55,880 So I guess like touching on Boston and the race this past 937 00:49:55,880 --> 00:49:58,440 weekend. So if we even kind of rewind to 938 00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,920 six months ago when you set out to run, you know, all these 939 00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:05,240 marathons in this compressed amount of time, like what was 940 00:50:05,240 --> 00:50:07,960 the goal or what were you hoping to get out of, you know, this 941 00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,400 many marathons? Yeah, it really evolved and it 942 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,360 was kind of just what I was excited to do. 943 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:17,400 You know, first my focus was just New York. 944 00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:21,240 I didn't race a lot before New York went all in on that and it 945 00:50:21,240 --> 00:50:23,560 did not go well. I had a really tough day out 946 00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:24,640 there. I didn't finish. 947 00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:28,640 And at first it was just OK, I want redemption because I know 948 00:50:28,640 --> 00:50:30,000 my fitness is there. And. 949 00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,560 And so it was refocusing to CIM. And then that one went well as 950 00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:39,280 second US championships and and then I yeah, I knew I was going 951 00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:41,480 to run Tokyo and I really wanted to run Boston. 952 00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,600 I wanted to do that double. And then Houston was just a fun 953 00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,600 bonus where they asked me to pace. 954 00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,080 They really just like wanted me to be a part of the marathon 955 00:50:50,080 --> 00:50:53,080 field. And I just knew myself though. 956 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:56,520 And I was like, once I'm out there and I see people coming 957 00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:59,320 back in the second-half of I'm going to want to go chasing and 958 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,760 hunting them down, you know? And so that's exactly what 959 00:51:01,760 --> 00:51:03,640 happened. So thankfully I'd gotten 960 00:51:03,640 --> 00:51:05,480 permission to finish if I wanted to. 961 00:51:05,480 --> 00:51:08,360 So that was kind of a bonus. That wasn't, it wasn't 962 00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,160 intentionally like 5 marathons. It was more like 2 marathons and 963 00:51:11,160 --> 00:51:13,760 two marathons that evolved into 5. 964 00:51:13,760 --> 00:51:17,080 But but yeah, it was, you know, I've always been jealous of Yuki 965 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,000 Kahuchi's racing schedule and how he would run a marathon 966 00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:22,920 like, yeah, every week. And then he he won Boston 967 00:51:22,920 --> 00:51:24,200 Marathon, right. And so. 968 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:27,960 So I don't think I'll quite go that far. 969 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,920 But I think I'm at a point in my career where, you know, I 970 00:51:30,920 --> 00:51:33,320 haven't felt like I was in American record shape the last 971 00:51:33,320 --> 00:51:36,720 few years. And so you can be a little less 972 00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:39,600 like all in on one event. You know, you can take some 973 00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:42,000 risks. You can, and maybe I was like, 974 00:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,520 maybe this is the path to the best marathon for me. 975 00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:48,560 Like, cuz unlike, you know, New York, I, I think I can bury 976 00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:52,480 myself in training if I just am training for really long periods 977 00:51:52,480 --> 00:51:55,200 of time and I almost feel like coming up for air and racing 978 00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,320 keeps me fresh. And maybe it shouldn't be 979 00:51:57,320 --> 00:51:58,960 marathons, right? Maybe it'll be like shorter 980 00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:03,200 races, but I think that might be a better like path for me to to 981 00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:08,160 having a good marathon. You know, New York TNF and like 982 00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:11,560 so I mean, there have been some of these that have been really 983 00:52:11,560 --> 00:52:14,280 tough. But then I just looked at your 984 00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,560 Instagram caption from just a couple yesterday or a couple 985 00:52:17,560 --> 00:52:20,760 hours ago where you did say I guess like this Boston 1 was 986 00:52:20,760 --> 00:52:23,720 like the hardest 1 yet. So what made this one even 987 00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:26,120 tougher? Yeah, most painful race of my 988 00:52:26,120 --> 00:52:28,560 life. And I'm still like trying to 989 00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:30,800 figure it out in my mind as I was laying in bed this morning, 990 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:32,960 like how was I not more calloused out there? 991 00:52:32,960 --> 00:52:37,760 Because it, it felt like my very first marathon and when before 992 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:40,760 we were in super shoes right where your quads are just like 993 00:52:40,960 --> 00:52:44,040 someone's just stabbing them with a knife like over and over. 994 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,240 And, and I'm like, I didn't think I'd ever feel that way in 995 00:52:47,240 --> 00:52:50,000 super shoes again, you know? And so, you know, I definitely 996 00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:54,880 didn't hit the hills super hard and I didn't really feel like I 997 00:52:54,880 --> 00:52:58,720 needed to because I've had other shortened marathon build UPS 998 00:52:58,720 --> 00:53:01,600 here before where I was fine. Like a couple years ago, I 999 00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:07,640 missed my entire third week before the race for like an IT 1000 00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:09,400 band flare. And I literally didn't run for 1001 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:11,840 six days. And then I had two weeks before 1002 00:53:11,840 --> 00:53:15,320 the race and then I still still had a a solid boss and I didn't 1003 00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:18,840 feel I felt my quads, but I was still like running well at the 1004 00:53:18,840 --> 00:53:21,400 end and stuff. And, and this was so much worse 1005 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:23,080 than that. And so I'm I'm yeah, I think 1006 00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:27,280 Brian are still figuring it out. But and I really wanted to 1007 00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,080 finish though. And even though it's it's tough 1008 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:32,120 when you know your pace, it's like you're not even breathing. 1009 00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,040 But I don't know if you've had these where it's like 1010 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:37,320 cardiovascular, you're totally fine, but your legs are just 1011 00:53:37,320 --> 00:53:39,760 toasted. And like, no matter what you 1012 00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,120 tell yourself, Oh yeah, like they will not go any faster. 1013 00:53:43,120 --> 00:53:46,880 And it's tough because you know, you're you're like it. 1014 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,960 We came through in 110 and that felt like comfortable to me. 1015 00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,720 And you know, you're finishing time is going to look terrible 1016 00:53:53,720 --> 00:53:56,360 on paper, but I really wanted to finish today. 1017 00:53:56,360 --> 00:54:00,880 I wanted to Monday. And no matter, no matter what 1018 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:04,760 the finishing time and, and I'm glad I did, you know, even those 1019 00:54:04,760 --> 00:54:07,680 last miles, I was just trying to really take it in like, and I 1020 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,040 think especially this race, cuz, you know, I was kind of alone, 1021 00:54:11,040 --> 00:54:13,200 like no one around. And it's like all the cheering 1022 00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,360 is for you, you know, and like, it's just so this, the 1023 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:18,880 atmosphere of Boston is like, there's nothing like it. 1024 00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:23,600 And and I just tried to get as external as I could, but but I 1025 00:54:23,600 --> 00:54:25,800 was, yeah, I was definitely having thoughts out there of 1026 00:54:25,800 --> 00:54:28,640 like, maybe I should have titled my book something else because 1027 00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,520 I'm not loving this grind right now. 1028 00:54:30,520 --> 00:54:34,240 Like each of these miles is going by so slow. 1029 00:54:34,560 --> 00:54:38,400 And I just want this to be done. Like this is this hurts so bad. 1030 00:54:39,680 --> 00:54:44,440 Watching your daughter Hannah finish after coaching her, 1031 00:54:44,840 --> 00:54:48,280 pacing her qualifier, racing the same course on the same day. 1032 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,120 Like what did that moment do for you? 1033 00:54:50,680 --> 00:54:53,720 It was so special. Like, yeah, I got, I got out of 1034 00:54:53,720 --> 00:54:57,200 drug testing just in time to get back there and see her and just 1035 00:54:57,200 --> 00:54:59,520 to see her overcome with emotion, like she was just 1036 00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,280 crying. I have the video on my feet if 1037 00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:05,400 anyone wants to see. But I just knew this race would 1038 00:55:05,400 --> 00:55:08,480 blow her mind. And like there's just, I don't 1039 00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,400 know, there's just no other life experience like something like 1040 00:55:11,400 --> 00:55:14,720 that, you know, where you're surrounded by strangers, like 1041 00:55:14,720 --> 00:55:16,800 pulling for you and strangers in the race. 1042 00:55:17,320 --> 00:55:19,840 And Kurt, like there's one guy that ran a lot with her out 1043 00:55:19,840 --> 00:55:24,800 there just and I think she just, she was just overcome with how 1044 00:55:24,800 --> 00:55:27,400 that felt. And I don't know, it's just, 1045 00:55:27,400 --> 00:55:31,080 it's so special like this. I know Boston is specifically, 1046 00:55:31,080 --> 00:55:35,760 it'll be one of the things that I treasure most like my memories 1047 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:37,760 in life. And and like for your kid to get 1048 00:55:37,760 --> 00:55:41,280 to like actually experience the exact same thing as is really 1049 00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:43,720 cool. And I'm just so thankful that 1050 00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:46,240 she loves running enough to continue with it. 1051 00:55:46,240 --> 00:55:50,880 I think you always wonder as a parent, like, oh, did I force 1052 00:55:50,880 --> 00:55:54,120 this on my kids or like, are they doing this to please me or, 1053 00:55:54,160 --> 00:55:57,320 you know, kind of all those thoughts and to see her really 1054 00:55:58,080 --> 00:56:02,680 find her love of the grind and really, like, make it her own. 1055 00:56:02,680 --> 00:56:05,680 And, you know, I was coaching her, but I also was like, there 1056 00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,320 were periods where I was like, do what you are excited to do or 1057 00:56:08,320 --> 00:56:11,760 like, yeah, you're feeling tired because you're juggling ministry 1058 00:56:11,760 --> 00:56:15,200 school and working on top of it. Like, hey, let's just chill this 1059 00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:16,680 week and not even really run that much. 1060 00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:21,200 And so it's like helping them make it their own too. 1061 00:56:21,200 --> 00:56:22,800 Like it's, I don't know, it's really special. 1062 00:56:23,480 --> 00:56:27,080 You're enjoying a nice break, I guess, from marathon training. 1063 00:56:28,320 --> 00:56:31,200 Book tour, I guess, is now underway. 1064 00:56:31,640 --> 00:56:35,280 Here's your chance, I guess. Where are the stops along the 1065 00:56:35,280 --> 00:56:38,520 way coming up when people hear this, we'll put this out later 1066 00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:41,320 today, I think. So if things are coming up over 1067 00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:44,360 the next couple days, then people will be aware. 1068 00:56:45,240 --> 00:56:49,480 And yeah, I guess First off, I guess for for folks, like the 1069 00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,280 first week for an author is really, really important. 1070 00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:56,280 And so if you are thinking about buying the book at any point, 1071 00:56:56,280 --> 00:56:57,520 don't wait. Get it now. 1072 00:56:57,520 --> 00:57:00,200 And then, you know, if you need to sit on your shelf for a 1073 00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,200 little bit while you finish a different book, like that's 1074 00:57:03,200 --> 00:57:06,520 totally fine. But yeah, I mean, like it's, 1075 00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:10,120 it's now that I'm been kind of into the process. 1076 00:57:10,120 --> 00:57:13,840 I understand so many of these things a bit more and so I'm 1077 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:17,880 really excited to see you kind of celebrate this and go through 1078 00:57:17,880 --> 00:57:19,200 with it. But I guess what's what's coming 1079 00:57:19,200 --> 00:57:21,800 up next for the promotion of the book? 1080 00:57:22,080 --> 00:57:23,320 Yeah. Well, thank you so much for 1081 00:57:23,320 --> 00:57:24,080 that. I do. 1082 00:57:24,080 --> 00:57:27,280 Yeah. If if people get a chance to buy 1083 00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:30,120 it before, I think it's like Sunday is, is like the last day 1084 00:57:30,120 --> 00:57:31,440 for it to count for the first week. 1085 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:35,760 That would be huge. I all my events are sold out, I 1086 00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:42,280 think except Flagstaff on Saturday and and then Monday in 1087 00:57:42,280 --> 00:57:44,160 San Francisco. I don't think tickets are 1088 00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,840 required. So that will be another option 1089 00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:50,000 to come out and I'm really hoping to do some kind of out on 1090 00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,600 the road when I race too. So just stay tuned on my 1091 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:55,200 Instagram for that. But but yeah, it's, it's on 1092 00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:57,000 everywhere. Books are sold and it's on 1093 00:57:57,360 --> 00:58:01,960 audible, Audible for audiobook. And yeah, so I just and send me 1094 00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:03,880 a message and let me know like what you get out of it. 1095 00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:06,440 I just, I think that's the most rewarding thing for me is like 1096 00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:09,120 hearing what people, what really has resonated with them and 1097 00:58:09,440 --> 00:58:11,680 can't wait to hear. What were some of the books I 1098 00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:14,560 guess like on your shelf, I guess running books or, or 1099 00:58:14,560 --> 00:58:18,200 anything that like kind of you drew inspiration from like 1100 00:58:18,400 --> 00:58:21,520 before, you know, kind of having your own now out there? 1101 00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:23,120 Good question. Yeah. 1102 00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:26,600 I thought Dina Castor's memoir was really interesting. 1103 00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:30,080 I felt like she really, you know, it wasn't just about her 1104 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:32,600 career. There was like an actual message 1105 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:38,120 that she was trying to share that was about the mental side 1106 00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:41,240 of running and stuff. And so that was really good. 1107 00:58:41,760 --> 00:58:44,840 I liked Dez's a lot. Like I feel like it's it's fun 1108 00:58:44,840 --> 00:58:47,840 how each person's really reflects their personality. 1109 00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,320 You know, like you see kind of what's important to them. 1110 00:58:50,320 --> 00:58:53,160 Like well, Kara's was like really a bombshell that was kind 1111 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:55,960 of unique to her situation. But then Dez is like, you see a 1112 00:58:55,960 --> 00:59:00,880 lot of like the business side of the sport and and that part and 1113 00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:02,640 then. Yeah. 1114 00:59:02,640 --> 00:59:05,680 And but there's even some out there that are old that like 1115 00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,160 Paula Radcliffe's book. I remember just finding her 1116 00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,000 training interesting and, and that's where I learned about 1117 00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:14,320 counting, like how she would count in her head. 1118 00:59:14,800 --> 00:59:16,120 And that's kind of where I got it. 1119 00:59:16,120 --> 00:59:18,960 And you see that in the book different places and something I 1120 00:59:18,960 --> 00:59:21,600 do a lot. So I feel like you just. 1121 00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:25,560 Yeah, every, everyone's like there's always something you can 1122 00:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,640 get from from anyone, you know, when they're telling their story 1123 00:59:28,640 --> 00:59:30,520 honestly. And I feel like I've gained 1124 00:59:30,520 --> 00:59:32,760 things from from every single running book. 1125 00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:36,600 Of course, Mebs are amazing. His story is just so incredible. 1126 00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:41,920 And I think the Boston Marathon in 2014 is the, it's like the 1127 00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,080 most important sports moment in history in my mind. 1128 00:59:45,360 --> 00:59:47,560 Like I just can't think of anything that tops that then. 1129 00:59:47,800 --> 00:59:50,880 And I got he was my neighbor in Mammoth for a long time. 1130 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:54,440 And so I just like have so much respect for him as a person. 1131 00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,640 And he, he really walks the talk like his life. 1132 00:59:57,640 --> 01:00:01,400 And so yeah, I've just gained so much from from every single 1133 01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:05,120 running book I've gotten. Well, yours definitely belongs 1134 01:00:05,120 --> 01:00:10,800 on that shelf with all of those. And I'm excited to see just more 1135 01:00:10,960 --> 01:00:14,080 success and for this to get into more people's hands. 1136 01:00:14,080 --> 01:00:17,440 So, Sarah, thank you so much for taking the time to chat with me 1137 01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,960 about this process. And I'm sure we could geek out 1138 01:00:19,960 --> 01:00:23,200 so much more on like many of the other things of the process of 1139 01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,760 of writing this book. But I appreciate you getting a 1140 01:00:25,760 --> 01:00:27,280 chance to to share with the listeners. 1141 01:00:27,600 --> 01:00:29,960 Thank you so much and I can't wait to read your book too. 1142 01:00:31,960 --> 01:00:33,520 All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1143 01:00:33,760 --> 01:00:36,520 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1144 01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:39,240 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1145 01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:42,600 A big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair, and to everyone 1146 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,600 behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Mag Podcast happen. 1147 01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:48,040 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 1148 01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,960 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 1149 01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:53,800 read every single one. You can find 1150 01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,640 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 1151 01:00:57,640 --> 01:00:59,200 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 1152 01:00:59,440 --> 01:01:01,480 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening. 1153 01:01:03,120 --> 01:01:03,240 Yeah.