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What's up everyone? 
You are listening to the CDs 

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Magic Podcast. 
I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 

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every week we go beyond the 
results to bring you 

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conversations with the biggest 
names on the track, the roads, 

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and behind the scenes. 
From world class athletes and 

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coaches to innovators shaping 
the sport. 

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If it's happening on the track, 
we're covering it with real 

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insights that sharpen minds, 
deep dives into the moments that

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define careers and the kind of 
access to the pros you won't get

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anywhere else. 
So let's get into it because we 

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love track and field. 
Before we get to today's 

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episode, you know we love giving
the listeners a shout out when 

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they leave us a review on Apple 
Podcast. 

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This certainly helps the show's 
discoverability, and we 

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appreciate it. 
To those who just discovered or 

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joined us during the World 
Championships, welcome. 

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We appreciate all of the kind 
words about our coverage. 

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The good thing is that it's not 
over. 

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This week's review comes to us 
from C Gook who writes in Saying

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World Champs coverage. 
So much fun. 

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What a great 10 days it has 
been. 

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Listening to Chris and the 
entire city's team every day has

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continued to increase my passion
for the sport. 

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Their timely professional 
analysis is rivaled only by 

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their genuine joy and happiness 
being trackside. 

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It really shows through that you
love track and field. 

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Thanks for sharing that with us 
fans. 

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Thank you so much. 
So much more to come before we 

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shift gears to cross country and
marathon season. 

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If you want your review to be 
read and you want to support the

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show, leave a safe review on 
Apple Podcast or a five star 

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rating on Spotify. 
Today. 

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My guest for this episode and 
one that people were definitely 

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waiting on is Olympic 1500 meter
champion and now 5000 meter 

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world champion Cole Hawker. 
Fresh off of one of the most 

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thrilling performances and 
redemption stories of these 

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World Championships days. 
After being disqualified under 

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the 1500 meter semi finals, Cole
still came back and left Tokyo 

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with a gold medal. 
He went from 12th at the bell to

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1st at the finish line, closing 
in a ridiculous 52.6 final lap 

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and 25.5 for the last 200 to win
in 1258.30. 

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With that kick, he joins Bernard
Lagat and Bob Scholl as the only

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American men to ever win a 
global title at 5000 meters. 

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And now he's on the short list 
of legends who have captured 

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gold in both the 1500 and the 
5000 on the world stage. 

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So in this episode we go through
his whole World Championship 

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experience. 
He opens up about what happened 

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right after that DQ and how he 
mentally reframed his approach 

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to the 5K. 
Cole talked a lot about wanting 

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to end win this championships on
his own terms, and he did 

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exactly that. 
So we dive into how he kept the 

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faith through setbacks, how he 
found the gear when it mattered 

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most, and what it means to 
cement his place among the 

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greats. 
So without further ado, here is 

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Cole Hawker. 
All right, now I'm joined by the

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World Champion at 5000 meters, 
Cole Hawker. 

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How's that sound? 
I guess you've now had a couple 

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days to process things and go 
back and rewatch the race, but 

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it must feel so sweet given that
I guess there's the redemption 

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element to it too. 
Yeah, no, it's, it sounds pretty

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crazy. 
I think as athletes we put 

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ourselves in boxes a lot of the 
time and it's easy to say I'm 

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racing my off event and you kind
of lower that self expectation, 

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or at least I'm guilty of doing 
that from time to time. 

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And so, yeah, it's huge. 
Like not only have I convinced 

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myself that I can run like at 
the best in the 5K, but now I 

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have, you know, as much proof as
I need. 

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Yeah. 
So if I were to have played the 

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role of like track God going 
into these championships, and I 

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can grant you only like 1 wish, 
right? 

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And it's either win the 1500 or 
win the 5K, it feels like the 

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answer probably would have been 
win the 1500, right? 

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Just given Paris the title 
defense and all that kind of 

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stuff. 
But then the way it shook out, I

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mean, it could have been better.
Yeah, yeah. 

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I think that's fair to say. 
And like now, I mean, yeah, 

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obviously that's still not how I
wanted it to play out, but it's 

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almost like being a a dual 
threat and, and both is I feel 

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like, yeah, more more telling of
fitness and just, yeah, instead 

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of like I was saying, I'm not a 
1500 specialist. 

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I can do both. 
So it's almost better in a way. 

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All right, So we're definitely 
going to recap the 5K, get into 

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some listener questions that 
were submitted. 

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But before that, I guess we kind
of have to set it up with kind 

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of the dismay of the 1500. 
And so it sort of was like first

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round, pretty simple. 
You got the win in advance and 

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then it's the semi finals where 
obviously it leads to the DQ and

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then just kind of like the chaos
that ensues from that. 

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And it's it felt like even just 
you coming through the mix zone,

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seeing kind of the videos 
afterwards that you knew all 

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right, like that was a very 
physical just sort of final 50 

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meters. 
And it wasn't the best look when

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you get, I guess what was the 
moment where you got the word 

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about the DQ and then what 
happened next as you kind of 

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went off on your your cool down 
and then back to the hotel. 

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Yeah, I had AI had a feeling 
like pretty much immediately 

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after and whatever you, I guess 
you can take that as whatever, 

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but I wasn't really trying to 
like, well, first of all, in any

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interview, I wasn't going to 
admit like I wasn't trying to do

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anything. 
So like no admission of guilt. 

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Like I was just trying to get in
the top 6. 

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And I felt like the only kind of
saving grace was that I've seen 

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how these semis and prelims go 
every global championship. 

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And it's like, I mean, the race 
right before, I guess the 

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contact was right after the 
line, but like hers on the 

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ground, there's just bodies 
coming in. 

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And I thought like, ah, I mean, 
there's just always weird. 

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And then I also knew that 
whatever, it's not the Federer 

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or it's not the athlete that 
usually protests, it's the 

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federation. 
And I knew any federation was 

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going to take full advantage of,
you know, any, anything like 

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that. 
So that was, those were kind of 

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my thoughts. 
Immediately saw my agent and 

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then my coach and then I was 
like, I could just tell on their

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faces. 
I was like, Oh no, I was like 

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just whatever, tell me. 
And they're like no, no, 

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nothing, nothing yet. 
And then so I just went about my

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cooldown as as normal. 
And yeah, for whatever reason, I

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wasn't like gutted in the 
moment. 

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It actually took like 3 hours. 
Like I didn't officially figure 

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out like it wasn't finalized 
until I got back to the hotel. 

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So it's kind of like a slow 
thing. 

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It was like, yeah, they 
protested. 

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Then it was like, yeah, they're 
showing you a DQ, but we're 

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still going to appeal as USATF. 
And I was like, ah, still will 

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not hope for that. 
And then and then it was 

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finalized. 
And then I was kind of, I mean, 

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I was, I was pissed, to be fair.
But I'd, I'd cooled down, I'd 

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got back to the hotel. 
It's definitely really 

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upsetting, but less so because I
had the 5K. 

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Of course, like all the other 
years I've made it to a global 

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championship, I'd only done the 
15. 

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If that was the case, this year 
would have been, I mean, yeah, 

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that would have been terrible. 
That's like the worst possible 

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way for that to go. 
So then I had the ability to 

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just shift focus and say 
whatever. 

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Like, I can be pissed about it 
tonight, but then let's move on.

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And immediately, as I will now, 
I have one last race on my legs 

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for that 5K. 
Like, let's take full advantage,

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get off my feet and just get my 
mind right That that's, yeah, 

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pretty much what I did. 
OK, so was there no broken lamp 

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or anything in the in the hotel 
room? 

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Like like what did you, how did 
you allow yourself to to get 

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upset screaming into a pillow? 
But then like obviously you did 

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find a way to recalibrate those 
emotions by the next morning. 

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Yeah, I feel like no, in the 
hole in the wall, no broken 

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lamp, but I was like out. 
I mean, I was on the verge of 

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it, but I was just like, I like,
I really tried to make note of 

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like I have all this emotion, 
like let's redirect it and like,

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let's let's put this to like a 
pinpoint and let's use this 

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productively, which is much 
easier said than done, 

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especially in a moment like 
that. 

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But I do have like a journal 
that I write, write throughout 

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the year, but then like 
especially before races and 

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stuff. 
And so, you know, I just wrote 

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pretty much to myself like that.
I was pissed, whatever. 

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And like, let's use this all 
these emotions productively 

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instead of, you know, whatever 
wasting them. 

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When did you start the the whole
journaling thing? 

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I've been writing down my goals 
since like, I mean, high school 

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really. 
And then they kind of got more 

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specific as I've gotten older 
and, and advanced more in my 

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career. 
But yeah, the past two years 

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I've kept a pretty like, like 
now I have like a daily journal 

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that I just, I have a training 
log and then a daily journal 

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that it's just nice to look back
at. 

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And and then also, yeah, for any
moments like this, it really 

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helps. 
When you mentioned before just 

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sort of like knowing how these 
semi finals go and just like the

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physical nature of it. 
I think the big thing that Mac 

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kept coming back to and just our
whole discussions about things 

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is that yes, like the final 50 
meters, 100 meters of a 1500 are

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super physical and things like 
that can, can happen. 

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But sometimes like there's even 
more contact in the 1st 100 

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meters. 
And so he's like, I don't 

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understand why we referee like 
those two parts of the race so 

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differently. 
And that, you know, this is also

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maybe a little bit of an 
American bias speaking, but he 

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thought like, all right, maybe 
you put Farkin through, but you 

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don't disqualify Cole in that 
sense. 

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But you know, I guess like in 
your recollection of things like

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how physical, you know, those 
two sides of the races, like how

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they, they're pretty similar, 
right? 

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Of course I thought about all of
those things you just said too, 

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and I was like, it's just weird 
how it shook out. 

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And I obviously don't know the 
how the rules work exactly, but 

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I'm like, well, maybe it should 
have just been the next person 

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up, the 7th person. 
Why? 

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Like, I guess they ruled I 
directly impacted him or 

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whatever, but and then yeah, 
like throughout the race, I 

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mean, not my race specific. 
Well, yeah, someone did get 

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thrown onto the ground. 
I don't know what exactly 

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happened on that one on the 
first lap of my race, but yeah, 

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it's like that one's like, yeah,
someone tripped, whatever. 

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And then like, yeah, in the last
20 meters, I don't know, you 

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graced someone and it's like 
ever you got a microscope on it?

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But yeah, it's just like, I 
think that's why people and Tri 

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gets so riled up is just because
it, it eventually comes down to 

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a judge and it's just not, it's 
almost impossible to be 

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consistent. 
Like every infraction is, is its

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own thing. 
So it's it's really hard to be 

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consistent. 
And you can immediately point, 

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what about this race? 
What about that one? 

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So yeah, I had all those 
thoughts and then I was like, 

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yeah, none of this is worth it. 
It's like it's already done. 

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It obviously depends on how 
races play out, but do you think

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that this will change anything 
about how you maybe choose to 

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run prelims and semi finals in 
the future? 

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Not really like getting to the 
like the final at every 

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championship is such a big deal 
because you navigate all of 

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like, yes, you have to be very 
fit, but you also have to 

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navigate all of these things. 
And I kind of done that year 

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after year and and every year 
I'm like who somehow made it 

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through without without 
tripping, without getting sick 

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or, you know, without something 
like what happened at this one. 

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And that's like what's so 
impressive about making a global

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final is you have navigated not 
only the racing, but all of 

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those extra variables. 
And I just think you do it 

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enough times. 
Like I was surprised. 

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I haven't had any, anything like
this before my career to be 

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honest. 
Like if you look at all the 

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rounds, I don't know, it's done.
It released like 9 races at 912 

223
00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,440
races at like global 
championships and so far nothing

224
00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:20,640
has gone wrong essentially. 
So it's, it's kind of like, I 

225
00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:24,000
almost think of it as like the 
odds are against you eventually 

226
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,120
it's something's going to be 
weird. 

227
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,800
So I, yeah, I don't want to read
too into that. 

228
00:12:29,800 --> 00:12:35,240
Like I've won everyone's seen I 
can win every. 

229
00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,840
Like I've won a ton of races 
racing at how I want to on the 

230
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:41,560
rail, not on the rail in the 
front and the back. 

231
00:12:41,560 --> 00:12:46,240
Like, I'm not going to throw out
the playbook that got me to this

232
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,240
point because it messed up one 
time. 

233
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:49,640
Yeah. 
OK. 

234
00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:52,680
So that's sort of part of one of
the listener questions that was 

235
00:12:52,680 --> 00:12:54,320
submitted. 
A lot of them will have to do 

236
00:12:54,320 --> 00:12:56,240
just sort of with like 
recalibrating your mindset. 

237
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:58,600
But then for the most part, what
someone said is like you should 

238
00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:02,480
respond to the criticism about 
the fact of like riding the rail

239
00:13:02,480 --> 00:13:06,720
got you in trouble this time. 
And so I mean, it didn't seem 

240
00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:09,400
like and then in the five Ki 
think what someone threw out 

241
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,960
this random stat. 
It was like of the 25 turns, 

242
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:15,320
like you were on the rail for 
like 22 of them. 

243
00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:19,520
So what is it just sort of about
it that, you know, it works and 

244
00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:21,920
it's not necessarily it's the 
Jakob Bingham Britain thing 

245
00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:25,760
where I think he says like if it
works 99% of the time, like why 

246
00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:27,640
change it? 
Even though like the one time it

247
00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:29,880
doesn't work, it leads to a 
loss. 

248
00:13:29,880 --> 00:13:34,080
But for you, I guess when you 
hear just sort of like that 

249
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:37,560
discussion, I mean, it seems 
like you're just like, well, it 

250
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,040
works most of the time, so I 
don't need to change it. 

251
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:43,240
Yeah, I haven't heard, I haven't
heard Jakob say that, but that I

252
00:13:43,240 --> 00:13:46,560
agree. 
Like, go back and watch my 

253
00:13:46,560 --> 00:13:49,320
career. 
And again, if you just look at 

254
00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:52,880
statistically, it's worked more 
times than not. 

255
00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:57,880
And I'm also not like 
intentionally every race I'm 

256
00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,600
going to stick on the rail until
the the very end. 

257
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:04,360
Like that's not, that's almost 
never my race plan. 

258
00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,560
Yeah, I want to stay on the rail
a lot of the time because you're

259
00:14:06,560 --> 00:14:08,160
running less distance. 
Like everyone knows that. 

260
00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:11,080
That's not a new thing. 
And I probably do it more than 

261
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,000
most runners, but I'm 
comfortable there. 

262
00:14:14,080 --> 00:14:18,720
And then a race like the USA 5 
Ki was running in the front on 

263
00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,200
the rail. 
Everyone goes around me and then

264
00:14:21,640 --> 00:14:24,800
one by one people move out, move
out, move out. 

265
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,120
And then it comes down to 100 
meters and the last person in 

266
00:14:27,120 --> 00:14:29,680
front of me moves out. 
And it's just like that race 

267
00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:32,040
happened to play play into my 
favor. 

268
00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:36,400
But of course, the one time it I
guess kind of backfires. 

269
00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:39,360
It just it happens to be on a 
much bigger stage. 

270
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:40,320
Too. 
Yeah, exactly. 

271
00:14:40,320 --> 00:14:42,960
And like everyone's going to, 
yeah, point that out, but also 

272
00:14:42,960 --> 00:14:48,000
add like it was a DQ. 
It's not like I, yeah, I did get

273
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:53,000
out-of-the-box, I guess 
illegally, but it was, it was a 

274
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:54,960
Gray area. 
Like I still got through and I 

275
00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:58,520
still was. 
I don't know, but evidently I I 

276
00:14:58,520 --> 00:15:00,080
was in a position that I 
shouldn't have been. 

277
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:03,560
Yeah, the whole instance with 
with the Jacob quote came from, 

278
00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,520
I think Mac was in the mix zone 
with me after the Bauerman Mile 

279
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:09,120
last year. 
And then he brought up to him as

280
00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,160
like, don't you ever think like 
you should try something a 

281
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:13,680
little bit different, like when 
it comes to races? 

282
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:15,600
And Jakob just looked at him and
said he's like, why? 

283
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,440
Like if it works most of the 
time, like, why should I do 

284
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:20,000
that? 
And then Mac didn't want to say 

285
00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:22,440
he's like, because it hasn't 
worked like all of the time. 

286
00:15:22,440 --> 00:15:28,200
But no, it was a funny moment. 
OK, so the other thing is then 

287
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:30,720
you go Zero Dark 30 on social 
media. 

288
00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:34,880
It kind of had started before, 
like even the rounds of the 1500

289
00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:40,480
where you deleted social media. 
I mean, at that point, it felt 

290
00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:43,640
like you definitely locked into 
just sort of like this killer 

291
00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:47,440
instinct going into the five Ki 
saw a couple texts that you'd 

292
00:15:47,440 --> 00:15:50,840
sent your agent. 
Well, it was mostly him sending 

293
00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:53,240
these words of encouragement of 
like, you're going to win the 

294
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:57,720
5K, you're going to win the 5K. 
And you just would respond with 

295
00:15:57,720 --> 00:16:02,840
like the heart emoji and not 
where the heart reaction, not an

296
00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:05,680
emoji is being said to him. 
And then you need anything. 

297
00:16:05,680 --> 00:16:09,320
You're like, I'm good and just 
sort of like at that point 

298
00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,200
you're getting all this sort of 
like positive feedback thrown 

299
00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:16,400
your way in, like mentally 
approaching that 5K, Like how 

300
00:16:16,960 --> 00:16:20,080
locked in did you feel? 
Yeah, it was pretty much like 

301
00:16:20,080 --> 00:16:25,400
that that night of the of the DQ
whatever I I open Instagram just

302
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:30,320
literally like by habit at this 
point and like boom, right in 

303
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:33,040
front of me. 
It's like DQ over my face. 

304
00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,440
I'm like, obviously that that is
a new, that that happened, but 

305
00:16:37,440 --> 00:16:41,000
seeing it and then, yeah, I saw 
that I was like, all right, I 

306
00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:42,760
got to get off. 
And it was kind of the same 

307
00:16:44,080 --> 00:16:48,640
mindset as like any emotion I 
have towards this, I want it to 

308
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:54,280
be used productively and looking
and stewing at, you know, photos

309
00:16:54,280 --> 00:16:58,040
and then inevitably reading the 
comments and then having 1000 

310
00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:00,760
opinions. 
It was doing absolutely nothing 

311
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,480
for me. 
And then even of course, I was 

312
00:17:04,560 --> 00:17:10,720
really grateful, like so many 
people were on my side and we're

313
00:17:10,720 --> 00:17:12,880
like, Oh, that's, that's 
bullshit, whatever. 

314
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,760
And that's like, of course I 
appreciate that. 

315
00:17:15,760 --> 00:17:18,640
And then they're telling me, 
well, you're going to get 

316
00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:23,240
revenge in that 5K also good. 
But then also it does add 

317
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:25,200
pressure. 
It's like, well, now, like, but 

318
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,400
yes, I I also think that like 
I'm going to try as hard as I 

319
00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:33,880
can, but I know like the story 
is a lot easier than actually 

320
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,080
doing it. 
And, and so all of that would 

321
00:17:36,080 --> 00:17:38,400
just, it would have been too 
much. 

322
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,400
And I knew that was going on. 
And so I just like shut it off 

323
00:17:41,480 --> 00:17:45,560
and just like watched a bunch of
YouTube that was not related to 

324
00:17:45,560 --> 00:17:48,160
running. 
And yeah, I just, I hung out 

325
00:17:48,160 --> 00:17:51,400
with my family and then, yeah, I
completely shut off social 

326
00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,280
media. 
And so, yeah, it was extremely 

327
00:17:54,280 --> 00:17:56,480
helpful. 
And I'm like, it really, it 

328
00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,120
doesn't exist if you don't look 
at it. 

329
00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:02,560
And that this is like the first 
real time that I've done that. 

330
00:18:02,560 --> 00:18:04,720
Like, I've tried to put down 
social media in the past and 

331
00:18:04,720 --> 00:18:06,720
have, but then it's a different 
thing when there's like, 

332
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:11,160
conversation about you. 
And yeah, I was just able to 

333
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,640
like it. 
It didn't. 

334
00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,640
It didn't exist. 
OK I need to ask like what 

335
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:17,920
random stuff on YouTube did you 
end up watching? 

336
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,280
Going to sound like an absolute 
dork, but like I was just 

337
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:30,000
grinding history, like American 
history, US presidents, I don't 

338
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,080
know. 
I just went down this crazy 

339
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:33,480
rabbit hole. 
I was like Japan history. 

340
00:18:33,560 --> 00:18:35,120
I don't know. 
I learned a lot though, so. 

341
00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:41,200
I I recommend the Shane Gillis 
presidents like him and Louis 

342
00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,720
CK. 
That's that's what I watched and

343
00:18:43,720 --> 00:18:45,480
I oh really? 
Yeah, that's hilarious. 

344
00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:47,960
He said that because I was like,
how have I not stumbled across 

345
00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,280
this? 
Yeah, it was like it's like 6 

346
00:18:50,280 --> 00:18:54,040
hours total and podcast and I 
was like, yeah, this is this 

347
00:18:54,040 --> 00:18:56,800
fire. 
It's it's, it is like one of the

348
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,080
most entertaining and like 
informative things for sure. 

349
00:19:00,600 --> 00:19:01,960
I'm glad that that's what you 
watched. 

350
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:07,840
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All right. 
So then once it comes down to 

389
00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:13,640
actually devising a race plan, 
First off, like I guess through 

390
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:17,280
the 15 rounds? 
A couple surprises, I guess one 

391
00:21:17,400 --> 00:21:19,600
I think was Omgren doesn't make 
it through. 

392
00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:23,680
Then let's see. 
There was also, well, Jakob, I 

393
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:27,000
think looked like all right, 
he's he at least made it 

394
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,520
through. 
But it wasn't like he was a 

395
00:21:28,600 --> 00:21:31,240
massive threat. 
Once you see the field assembled

396
00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:33,880
for the final, Like, what was 
you? 

397
00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,440
What was the race plan that you 
and Coach Thomas devised? 

398
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,040
Or actually, was there anything 
that stood out to you from that 

399
00:21:39,040 --> 00:21:40,640
first round before we get to the
final? 

400
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:48,400
Yeah, First, like my prelim was 
1313 like and I was kind of like

401
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,400
why, like why like we did not 
have to run that fast and and I 

402
00:21:51,400 --> 00:21:55,040
went to the front similar thing 
that I did at USA and I were 

403
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,440
just planning on just running 
just a controlled pace and just,

404
00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,760
I mean definitely staying out of
traffic. 

405
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:05,520
Like I guess to the point 
earlier that did affect that 

406
00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:07,760
race plan a little bit. 
I would always want to try to 

407
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,840
stay out of traffic, but maybe 
more so just like get to the 

408
00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:14,560
front completely, get out of all
that and then just be able to 

409
00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:17,600
react to the moves. 
And then it's like I, I 

410
00:22:17,600 --> 00:22:22,760
understood Omgren's strategy. 
I think he definitely has a lot 

411
00:22:22,760 --> 00:22:25,720
of strength and maybe not as 
much of A kick. 

412
00:22:27,360 --> 00:22:30,480
And so he ramped it up, but I 
think we ran like a sub four 

413
00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:37,760
last mile and yeah, the the 5K 
freelan and all this like I 

414
00:22:37,760 --> 00:22:42,160
didn't really want to be that 
sore, but it was it it was. 

415
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:47,080
And then coming off of that, 
though, I realized like, well, I

416
00:22:47,080 --> 00:22:51,080
don't think they can run my legs
off like they've been able to do

417
00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:54,280
in the 5K in the past. 
And so that was like the next 

418
00:22:54,280 --> 00:22:56,680
take away. 
And then I was pretty confident.

419
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:58,400
I was like, well, yeah, I'm 
sore. 

420
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,240
But like everyone else is sore 
even that the other heat ran 

421
00:23:01,240 --> 00:23:04,040
1340. 
But like, you close like crazy 

422
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,240
in those races, and that's 
really what makes you sore. 

423
00:23:07,640 --> 00:23:09,080
And so I was like, yeah, 
everyone's feeling the same 

424
00:23:09,080 --> 00:23:11,560
thing. 
And they weren't able to run my 

425
00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:15,960
legs off yesterday. 
So I don't see it going much 

426
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:19,720
faster than that for the last 
mile with, Yeah, with the field 

427
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:22,920
that that I saw. 
And yeah, I had a lot of 

428
00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:25,600
confidence. 
I was just kind of hoping that I

429
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:27,800
didn't feel like total trash 
once the gun went off. 

430
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,080
Well, that was the thing I think
that you brought up after we did

431
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,840
our recap of USA's is you're 
like sometimes the body 

432
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:40,800
recovering off of that fast 
close in a 400 is tougher than, 

433
00:23:40,920 --> 00:23:44,560
you know, just going through a 
much longer harder effort. 

434
00:23:44,560 --> 00:23:47,480
And so in that way, just sort of
it did work to your favor. 

435
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:52,000
Also, you had one less race on 
your legs and then on top of 

436
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:55,960
that, any of those kind of like 
qualms you had about, you know, 

437
00:23:55,960 --> 00:24:00,160
dating back to the 24 trials of 
just having to run 2 rounds of 

438
00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:03,840
the the 5K, You know, I think 
those were pretty dismissed at 

439
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:06,240
that point. 
So heading into the final, like 

440
00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:11,080
pretty good body wise. 
Like I said, I was, I was sore 

441
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:14,080
like the 5K is probably a little
bit different than the 15 where 

442
00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,920
I say like if he was running 
even 15, I'm usually like less 

443
00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:20,120
sore than yeah, running is super
slow. 

444
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:24,400
And then going just sending it 
the last 600, like you come off 

445
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:29,240
that your handies are pretty 
cooked. 5K it's like, yeah, we 

446
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:33,960
started ramping it up from like 
5 1/2 laps out and that's a 

447
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:36,280
pretty long way. 
Like it's still like 3 miles of 

448
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:40,080
like racing. 
And then ideally I would run a 

449
00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:42,920
little bit slower. 
But yeah, with all that 

450
00:24:42,920 --> 00:24:46,920
considered, I felt I felt pretty
good and like, yeah, I knew I 

451
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:50,800
just had to kind of get warmed 
up that morning. 

452
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:52,800
And then yeah, I was. 
I was. 

453
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,200
Feeling good. 
Well, on top of that, I guess 

454
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:59,520
like, was it an added curveball?
I guess like having this race so

455
00:24:59,520 --> 00:25:03,080
late And like, I feel like the 
worst part about these 

456
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,400
championships is that like it's 
not just like, all right, you 

457
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:09,240
get to race day, but race day is
a full day of you and your 

458
00:25:09,240 --> 00:25:11,720
thoughts and thinking about just
like how you're going to tackle 

459
00:25:11,720 --> 00:25:13,480
this whole thing. 
And then you're not getting on 

460
00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:17,120
to the track until like, you 
know, 93010 PM sometimes. 

461
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:22,000
The the 5K actually fell earlier
because yeah the the second 

462
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:30,240
round of the 15 was at 93940 and
then the yeah the 5K final was 

463
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:33,440
at 7:45. 
Oh wow. 

464
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:35,440
Yeah, yeah, that's right. 
Yeah, so that one was like a 

465
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:38,360
little bit earlier, which I 
yeah, 7:45 that's like a perfect

466
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,160
time in my mind. 
Yeah, anything after 9 is 

467
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,960
that's, yeah, a full day because
like, yeah, if it's 745I head 

468
00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:48,640
over to the track around like 4 
and doesn't feel like you're 

469
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:51,280
waiting around as long. 
But that is always an added 

470
00:25:51,280 --> 00:25:53,520
element. 
And it's weird because first 

471
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:58,480
round of the 15 was at whatever 
time it was like 9:00 AM, but I 

472
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:01,680
was up at 5:30 that morning and 
like you're, you're doing all 

473
00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,200
the like to get your circadian 
rhythm on. 

474
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:07,600
It's it's pretty taxing on like 
all the systems like that one 

475
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,440
included. 
And that's just like another 

476
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,960
variable of getting to a global 
final, like so many things 

477
00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,600
thrown at you that you just have
to stay like even keel with. 

478
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,440
Yeah. 
You dealt with the travel. 

479
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:21,560
Obviously you brought this up 
later on about just sort of when

480
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:25,280
people now look back at Oslo and
just like why maybe that wasn't 

481
00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:28,240
like as fast or of a banger of a
performance, you know, 

482
00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,280
throughout this season and 
you're just like, well, it was 

483
00:26:30,280 --> 00:26:33,960
the like adjustment to Europe. 
So then, you know, for Japan, I 

484
00:26:33,960 --> 00:26:36,720
guess, how far, when did you 
feel like you had adjusted 

485
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:38,680
because you had to give it, you 
know, adequate time? 

486
00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:44,520
Yeah, I got there September 3rd.
So I got there the earliest that

487
00:26:44,520 --> 00:26:48,480
like, yeah, we could on and 
being like the USA hotel. 

488
00:26:50,680 --> 00:26:52,480
So I don't, I don't know how. 
Yeah, the first round was the 

489
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:56,120
14th. 
So yeah, I had over a week and 

490
00:26:56,120 --> 00:26:59,400
that's like exactly what I 
wanted because it took took me 

491
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:05,400
about like 6 days to finally 
start feeling like great. 

492
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:09,720
Like there's one thing to be 
good enough to be like a 

493
00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:12,960
tourist, go walk around. 
It's another thing to perform at

494
00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,160
like the very best, the very 
highest level. 

495
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:18,240
So yeah, I think it took me 
every, every bit of that, that 

496
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:20,840
first week and then had like 3 
or 4 more extra days. 

497
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,200
But yeah, it's definitely 
something I've learned. 

498
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,600
Yeah, you're, you're still there
right now and it's like it's 

499
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:29,320
going to be such an adjustment 
for you when once you get back. 

500
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:32,120
So then game planning with Coach
Thomas. 

501
00:27:32,720 --> 00:27:35,680
What was it? 
Yeah, he, he kind of gave me a 

502
00:27:35,680 --> 00:27:38,760
rough plan. 
And then I was, I think I was 

503
00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,600
more vocal about I just wanted 
to go out and get to the front 

504
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:47,240
like I had done in the past 
three or past 25 KS that I've 

505
00:27:47,240 --> 00:27:51,080
done. 
I feel like I'm, I'd still been 

506
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,680
learning the 5K, like I still 
feel like I'm learning it. 

507
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:56,560
But now I'm, I'm starting to 
feel almost as comfortable in 

508
00:27:56,560 --> 00:27:59,440
the 5K of the 1500. 
And yeah, that's just kind of 

509
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:01,560
what I like doing. 
I'm not, I don't know if I'm 

510
00:28:01,560 --> 00:28:04,000
going to keep doing that and 
every, every 5K race. 

511
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:06,600
But far as the championship, I 
really like it is get to the 

512
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:12,000
front and fun, find my pace and 
then make everyone else make a 

513
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:16,280
move, make a decision and then 
just stick. 

514
00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:19,360
That was pretty much the plan, 
just if they're going to let me 

515
00:28:19,360 --> 00:28:23,000
run my pace, let that go as long
as possible out of feeling that 

516
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,880
they weren't going to let that 
go very long and then just 

517
00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,200
stick. 
And if I was there with, I knew 

518
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:32,920
if I was if I was there with a 
lap to go is going to be pretty 

519
00:28:32,920 --> 00:28:36,320
hard to lose. 
But I really in my mind wanted 

520
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:40,000
to be there with two laps to go.
And I thought I can muscle out 

521
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,200
two laps no matter what. 
And then in the race, I thought 

522
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:46,840
when we talked like about a 
month, month and a half ago and 

523
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,680
I talked about how these 
championships have always been 

524
00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:53,600
run like pretty slowly. 
And just watching them, I'm 

525
00:28:53,600 --> 00:28:57,200
like, oh, that's such like, you 
know, it's not easy, but it's 

526
00:28:57,200 --> 00:29:01,040
like fits fits me so well. 
Like I if I just get to that 

527
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:05,280
race, then like, it's going to 
be like perfect for me. 

528
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,080
And then in the race, I'm like, 
of course, this is the year 

529
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,880
where they hammer. 
Yeah. 

530
00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:15,720
I was, I was like, well, they're
going and so just again, just 

531
00:29:16,000 --> 00:29:21,040
stick, stick on them and just 
hurt as much as I can and just 

532
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:23,520
get there. 
But I did have a feeling it's 

533
00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:27,680
almost impossible for someone to
hammer it the whole way. 

534
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,360
If you watch go back and I went 
back and watched a ton of global

535
00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,480
5K championships. 
And any time someone tries to do

536
00:29:35,480 --> 00:29:37,840
that, they can do it for a 
while. 

537
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:39,840
And it's not that they can't do 
it. 

538
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:44,200
It's more so the fact that 
naturally they just have to let 

539
00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:47,480
off because you want to be sure 
that you can finish and it's not

540
00:29:47,480 --> 00:29:49,280
a time trial. 
You're not going for a time 

541
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:52,600
where you can just see when you 
blow up, see if you hit the 

542
00:29:52,600 --> 00:29:56,480
wall, everyone like it's just 
human instinct just to hold 

543
00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:58,720
back. 
You want to be, you want to make

544
00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,840
sure you can at least meddle if 
you're, if you're hammering from

545
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:03,120
the front. 
And so I was pretty aware of 

546
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,200
that going into it. 
And I, that's another thing I 

547
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,080
told myself I was like, when it 
goes, if they really make it go,

548
00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:11,400
just stick there for two laps 
and I feel like there's a good 

549
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:12,480
chance that they're going to let
up. 

550
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,240
That's pretty much exactly what 
happened. 

551
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:17,480
And it kept happening. 
I didn't even see the front 

552
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,680
where like Nico and Grant, I 
guess we're kind of trading off,

553
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,520
but it seemed like someone would
kind of go and then like I'm 

554
00:30:23,520 --> 00:30:26,160
saying, they'd let off a bit and
I would feel it. 

555
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,520
I'm all the way in the back and 
I'd feel it like I'm like, Oh, I

556
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,640
just lagged because I just now 
we're running like too wide all 

557
00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:34,680
of a sudden. 
And so it just matching a lot of

558
00:30:34,680 --> 00:30:37,640
those moves all the way like 10 
places back. 

559
00:30:38,480 --> 00:30:41,960
Yeah, as as the race is 
unfolding, I did sort of have a 

560
00:30:41,960 --> 00:30:44,720
moment where I thought I was 
like, oh, like I remember Cole 

561
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:47,000
said like, and we, it was what 
everyone talked about. 

562
00:30:47,000 --> 00:30:50,480
Also the trend of seeing how 
slow a lot of those distance 

563
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,480
races were in the lead up to it,
that it was just like, this is 

564
00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:57,080
going to be a 13101315 race. 
Cole will be licking his chops 

565
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:58,520
because it's exactly what he 
wanted. 

566
00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:00,560
And then it's sort of like, 
yeah, there was that moment 

567
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:04,000
where, you know, Nico and Grant,
maybe listen to your comments on

568
00:31:04,000 --> 00:31:05,720
the last one was like, well, we 
can't let it be that. 

569
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,360
And then he accelerated it. 
But at the same time, it did 

570
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:10,760
lag. 
You know, once I had like, the 

571
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:15,720
slowest Ki think was, what, 4K? 
The pace really on that 4th K 

572
00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,600
was what kind of set up your 
ability to have that kick. 

573
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:24,560
But before that, I guess once 
you did get passed for the lead,

574
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:28,480
you did an amazing job of just 
being invisible in this race for

575
00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:32,600
like the longest time. 
I mean, was staying calm, 

576
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,560
collected and just in touch. 
Like what's going through your 

577
00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:37,680
head? 
I guess as you're watching the, 

578
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,200
I mean, you're literally 
watching the race unfold ahead 

579
00:31:40,200 --> 00:31:42,560
of you. 
Yeah, yeah, that was like a 

580
00:31:42,800 --> 00:31:44,960
pretty. 
I don't know what. 

581
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,000
Well, I do. 
I guess I I prepared for that 

582
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:50,120
moment where, yeah, Grant went 
around pretty hard and then 

583
00:31:50,120 --> 00:31:52,560
Nikko immediately answered and 
stuck to him. 

584
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:56,240
And I was just like, well, if 
they're going to keep that pace 

585
00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:01,440
up, I have like 10 laps to reel 
them in if I really need to. 

586
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:04,760
And then more realistically, 
like, yeah, people just started 

587
00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:06,720
going around me. 
I was like, OK, that's that's 

588
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:08,120
great. 
I'll let them go around and then

589
00:32:08,120 --> 00:32:11,920
I'll stick to them. 
And then, yeah, I just kind of 

590
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,840
like what you're saying, just 
stay invisible and stay on the 

591
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:18,280
rail like I do and just keep 
keep running. 

592
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,920
But yeah, just even. 
And I don't want to make any 

593
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,760
sporadic moves. 
And yeah, I think that was a lot

594
00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:28,080
of it, just not wanting to make 
any big, big moves when I didn't

595
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:32,520
have to. 
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596
00:32:32,520 --> 00:32:35,600
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597
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598
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:42,120
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600
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601
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604
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605
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606
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607
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609
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610
00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,480
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611
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612
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613
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614
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615
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616
00:33:37,320 --> 00:33:39,800
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617
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618
00:33:43,360 --> 00:33:45,560
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619
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,880
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620
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:52,040
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621
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:55,120
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622
00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,080
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623
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,000
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625
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626
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:12,760
Stage So one of the big 
questions, I guess that was 

627
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:15,040
dropped in like the city of 
smack chat when where I was 

628
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,760
like, hey, I'm talking to Cole. 
What should I ask? 

629
00:34:16,760 --> 00:34:19,120
And then someone had said, it's 
like, I just want to know how 

630
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:22,280
you ended up so far back at the 
bell in 12th place. 

631
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,840
And so, you know, at that point,
let's, let's, let's take it from

632
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:30,400
800 to go, you know, 'cause now 
we, we all know what happens in,

633
00:34:30,400 --> 00:34:33,520
in the last lap. 
But in that the penultimate lap,

634
00:34:33,520 --> 00:34:36,320
like what were you just sort of 
thinking in terms of finding 

635
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,000
your positioning but 12th at the
same time, Like did it feel like

636
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:41,880
you had you left yourself too 
much work? 

637
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,920
At that point, like it kind of 
like you said, like the 4th K 

638
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:52,800
honestly to like 2 laps to go, 
like there wasn't any huge like 

639
00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,480
surge in pace. 
So I could see the the field and

640
00:34:57,040 --> 00:35:00,000
I just have a feel of how far 
away that leader is 

641
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,240
subconsciously or like, you 
know, like I'm not really 

642
00:35:03,240 --> 00:35:05,200
thinking about it, but I know 
the leader is not too far off 

643
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:09,960
the front, but with 400 to go, 
it's like do or die Like and 

644
00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:12,040
then that's when I got off the 
rail. 

645
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,400
He was like, I'm not getting by 
11 bodies on the rail. 

646
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:19,480
I guess it's just not happening.
So yeah, I remember thinking 

647
00:35:19,480 --> 00:35:21,320
like I got to get around some 
people. 

648
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:24,720
It's going to be tough. 
But like, yeah, I started, I 

649
00:35:24,720 --> 00:35:26,720
really started moving on that 
backstretch. 

650
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:30,760
And then I just kind of told 
myself again, like, be patient. 

651
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,000
You don't have to make it all up
at one time. 

652
00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:36,480
And so I feel like in my head, 
there was one really big surge 

653
00:35:36,480 --> 00:35:39,360
on that backstretch. 
I settled in on the turn, got 

654
00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,160
into position, and then 
obviously just full out on the 

655
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,840
home stretch. 
But yeah, I was very consciously

656
00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:48,240
just saying like, don't do it 
all at once. 

657
00:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,360
Just just wait, wait, wait and 
then go. 

658
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:51,800
Yeah. 
OK. 

659
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,760
So you're not, you're not 
counting as you go past these 

660
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:56,320
people, right? 
Or you're like, what's what's 

661
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:57,960
going through your head? 
It's just bias. 

662
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,200
Yeah, I just it just get to the 
get to the front, like get to 

663
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:03,840
the front 5. 
I don't know what it was like 

664
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:08,960
front 4, but yeah, I had no idea
really what was happening or who

665
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,400
had taken the lead until after 
until watching it back. 

666
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:19,160
And, you know, you know, another
thing that we practiced and kind

667
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:21,680
of the goal of the race was be 
the last one to kick. 

668
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,880
And I was really happy with that
because if you watch that last 

669
00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:28,000
lap, yeah, I started to wind it 
up with 400 to go. 

670
00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:32,520
But first you see Mahari go to 
the front with like a really 

671
00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:35,320
big, like 200 go. 
He makes a big move. 

672
00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,440
Then you see Camelli like right 
there on his shoulder. 

673
00:36:39,440 --> 00:36:44,000
And then I think Gressier, 
Gressier started to go as soon 

674
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:45,680
as I started to go. 
That's right. 

675
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,400
When Camelli kicked, he kicked 
with like 100 meters to go. 

676
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:51,720
And I guess I kicked with like 
90 meters to go and I felt like 

677
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:55,360
I was the last one to kick. 
So that was that was nice just 

678
00:36:55,360 --> 00:36:58,280
to execute that exactly how I 
wanted to. 

679
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:02,080
It's a question that like, I 
guess was asked to George 

680
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,160
Beamish right after he won the 
steeplechase. 

681
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,000
It's just sort of like knowing 
like the limits of your kick. 

682
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,280
And he's like, I guess we still 
haven't found out. 

683
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:15,520
And so for you, what is just 
sort of like the farthest, like 

684
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:19,720
if if you hadn't pressed it at 
9, it like Nitro at 90, like 

685
00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:22,920
when would have been like the 
latest, you think that you could

686
00:37:22,920 --> 00:37:25,520
have probably, you know, 
unleashed that kick. 

687
00:37:25,720 --> 00:37:28,960
Yeah, probably 50 meters to go. 
Yeah, right. 

688
00:37:29,320 --> 00:37:33,520
Yeah, I think I don't know how 
much I like 1 by, but open it up

689
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:37,360
a little bit at least like maybe
5 meters, which is a lot in like

690
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,280
the final stretch. 
And so, yeah, I, I, I felt 

691
00:37:42,520 --> 00:37:44,200
really good. 
I was definitely starting to go 

692
00:37:45,040 --> 00:37:48,200
flat out. 
And again, watching it back, you

693
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:49,600
can see me looking at the 
screen. 

694
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:53,920
I was more concerned with like 
someone kicking after me because

695
00:37:53,920 --> 00:37:56,720
like, exactly what I'm saying, 
like I don't, I don't know if 

696
00:37:56,720 --> 00:37:58,560
someone was going to come flying
around my shoulder. 

697
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,840
And so yeah, I was just 
pressing, pressing. 

698
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:05,680
And yeah, once I looked at the 
screen and saw like no one else 

699
00:38:05,680 --> 00:38:09,200
was coming, then I just put my 
head down and finished. 

700
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:15,440
But I don't know the the limits 
to the kick yet. 5262 I mean 

701
00:38:15,720 --> 00:38:18,440
like, did it feel that quick 
just all things considered? 

702
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:23,400
It definitely felt fast, yeah. 
Like it was weird because we're 

703
00:38:23,400 --> 00:38:26,600
running fast and that's, this is
one of those races where now I 

704
00:38:26,600 --> 00:38:30,960
feel like I can really see my 
potential and evenly paced 5K, 

705
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:33,360
which is it's a different thing 
to run. 

706
00:38:33,440 --> 00:38:36,400
And I, I think that's kind of 
what I have to learn next is 

707
00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:43,280
that sustained pain, which I've 
run sub 13 a few Times Now, but 

708
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:47,520
then running it how I did like, 
yeah, I was hurting up until 

709
00:38:48,640 --> 00:38:52,160
like through through 10 laps. 
I was like, this hurts. 

710
00:38:52,160 --> 00:38:55,960
Like just don't let a gap form. 
I was really holding on. 

711
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,600
And then two laps ago it it got 
easier. 

712
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:01,680
And then that last lap is just 
like no thinking. 

713
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:03,920
And and I was have that, that 
reserve. 

714
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,120
But if, if it definitely felt 
fast. 

715
00:39:07,120 --> 00:39:09,720
I felt like I was. 
I wasn't moving for sure but 

716
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:13,680
never really know how fast it is
until after the race. 

717
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:16,200
OK. 
So one question that you were 

718
00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,680
asked like after the race in the
mix zone. 

719
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:22,800
And I understand that sometimes 
like after a race like that, 

720
00:39:22,800 --> 00:39:26,240
like your brain is also going 
lactic and it's like maybe you 

721
00:39:26,320 --> 00:39:28,920
can't give as like full of an 
answer in that moment. 

722
00:39:28,920 --> 00:39:31,320
But you were asked to sort of 
like what happens I guess in 

723
00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,160
training between USAS and a 
championship that you do to like

724
00:39:34,480 --> 00:39:36,240
level up. 
And you pointed towards just 

725
00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:40,240
sort of, you know, consistency, 
getting older, having more 

726
00:39:40,240 --> 00:39:43,840
experience. 
But I guess if we peel back not,

727
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:47,160
you know, necessarily revealing 
all of the workouts. 

728
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,400
But what is it that you are 
trying to hone in on in training

729
00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,560
in that month leading into a 
championship that does sort of 

730
00:39:54,680 --> 00:39:58,200
come to show at once you get to 
the big stage? 

731
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:02,720
Like all year long I work, I 
work on like pace change and I 

732
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:05,480
think that's really valuable, of
course, like. 

733
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:10,120
But you really see the value in 
that at a championship race. 

734
00:40:10,880 --> 00:40:12,400
Yeah. 
And it's it's hard to explain 

735
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:13,720
like that. 
Yeah, that last month. 

736
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:20,120
But I think really, yeah, the 
volume drops and the intensity 

737
00:40:20,120 --> 00:40:23,400
increases. 
Like I don't most of the year 

738
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:26,840
I'm not doing workouts that I'm 
like, wow, that was crazy. 

739
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:29,800
Like I can't believe I run that.
I ran that that month. 

740
00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:35,440
It kind of becomes becomes that 
like twice a week I'm doing a 

741
00:40:35,440 --> 00:40:41,080
track session that's at like 
1500 pace and then like a 

742
00:40:41,080 --> 00:40:45,120
really, really fast 400 and I'm 
just floating. 

743
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:52,800
Like I ran like 50 seconds, 
yeah, 50 seconds in the 400 at 

744
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,280
the end of a workout. 
And of course it was hard, but 

745
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,800
it was like I could just, I just
had a sense that like, wow, like

746
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:03,880
I was, I wasn't pressing to get 
that. 

747
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:05,600
I was like floating through that
400. 

748
00:41:06,520 --> 00:41:09,240
And it just workout after 
workout like that. 

749
00:41:09,240 --> 00:41:11,120
Like we have the entire base 
behind us. 

750
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:15,440
And then I just like, I think 
Ben Thomas knows how to get me 

751
00:41:15,440 --> 00:41:17,480
really sharp. 
I can't even describe like 

752
00:41:17,480 --> 00:41:20,240
what's going on physiologically.
Like I think he could. 

753
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:24,400
But yeah, we now have like a 
really good feel for that just 

754
00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:28,680
after five years of doing it. 
Yeah, I mean, it's great 

755
00:41:28,680 --> 00:41:30,200
coaching. 
And then just like the most 

756
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:33,440
precise periodization that I 
think we've ever seen just sort 

757
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,160
of in the sport because now 
we've, you know, come to see it 

758
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:39,480
in Paris and in in Tokyo. 
So then what is that first 

759
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:41,480
conversation like with Coach 
Thomas? 

760
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,800
You know, after you get through,
you know, media and all that 

761
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:46,640
kind of stuff, you get that 
moment where it's like, all 

762
00:41:46,640 --> 00:41:50,080
right, we're like, we did it. 
Yeah, it's, it's good. 

763
00:41:50,160 --> 00:41:53,160
I was laughing because I don't 
know if I should share this, but

764
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:57,600
I think the first thing he said 
was protest of the hat to me. 

765
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,680
So yeah, he was, he was probably
more fired up after that 15 than

766
00:42:02,680 --> 00:42:05,800
I was. 
So yeah, we were both, yeah, 

767
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,160
hugged out and yeah, it was a 
good, good moment. 

768
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,680
Cause yeah, he just knows like 
going in these championships 

769
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,000
where I am and he's seen it 
before. 

770
00:42:16,040 --> 00:42:21,040
Like I said, like year after 
year and yeah, this this year 

771
00:42:21,040 --> 00:42:24,240
was like just so comparable to 
last year. 

772
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:28,720
And just putting it in like 
simple terms, I was comparing 

773
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:30,840
last year and training to this 
year. 

774
00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,200
And then just knowing I was able
to run 327 and when. 

775
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:39,600
And then this year I felt like I
I had the same thing and I had 

776
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:42,440
that 5K piece that I was missing
last year. 

777
00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,280
So it was like I was really 
confident. 

778
00:42:45,280 --> 00:42:48,640
And then I can always tell when 
he's, I'm really confident, like

779
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:52,560
some of the races throughout the
year, it's like he's like we 

780
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:54,360
have a race plan. 
He's like, just don't get too 

781
00:42:54,360 --> 00:42:57,200
consumed with the result. 
Like this is this is working 

782
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:00,040
towards that, that September, 
etcetera. 

783
00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:02,560
And as an athlete that can be 
really hard. 

784
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,560
Like I hate losing. 
It's tough to put myself out 

785
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,840
there when I know I'm, I know I 
can win a lot of time. 

786
00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:12,880
But like, I mean, in this era, 
like someone's going for a world

787
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:15,040
record probably or an American 
record. 

788
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:18,200
So if you're not in that shape, 
like you're going to get your 

789
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,000
butt kicked. 
And so that's that's tough to 

790
00:43:21,000 --> 00:43:22,400
do. 
But going into the 

791
00:43:22,400 --> 00:43:26,120
championships, it's like, yeah, 
me and him are just like, we 

792
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:28,440
know where we're at. 
So it's a, it's a big game of 

793
00:43:28,440 --> 00:43:32,000
what if that like I feel like is
going to bug US distance 

794
00:43:32,000 --> 00:43:33,160
training fans for the longest 
time. 

795
00:43:33,160 --> 00:43:34,600
It's like, what if you hadn't 
gotten DQ D? 

796
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:37,120
And what if, like you would have
been in that 15 final? 

797
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:40,160
You told the media afterwards 
that you didn't watch it live. 

798
00:43:40,160 --> 00:43:44,200
You saw the results, I guess. 
Have you gone back to watch it? 

799
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:48,800
And then like, I guess when you 
see how it shook out, it's it's 

800
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,160
also got to be itching you to be
like, if I was in that race, 

801
00:43:52,160 --> 00:43:53,880
that would have been just right 
up your alley. 

802
00:43:54,240 --> 00:43:57,360
Yeah, I mean, I don't want to be
that guy after the fact, after 

803
00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,640
it. 
And like, I think it's pretty 

804
00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,080
lame when someone's not even in 
a race and they're like, well, I

805
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:04,600
could have won. 
That's the easiest thing to do. 

806
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:06,640
So I I definitely don't want to 
do that. 

807
00:44:06,640 --> 00:44:11,520
And I've been in slow races, 
like, yeah, I don't know, Last 

808
00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:14,120
year at Brussels is the Diamond 
League final and it was pretty 

809
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:17,440
slow. 
I thought it perfectly suited me

810
00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,800
and it just shook out a little 
differently. 

811
00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:23,280
And I ended up getting 3rd. 
And so you never know how I can 

812
00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,800
go on the day. 
But obviously, like, yeah, I 

813
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:28,720
think I would have fared well. 
I got just suits my racing 

814
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:31,480
strategy. 
But yeah, you never know how 

815
00:44:31,480 --> 00:44:35,320
it's going to go like that race.
No one, I don't know if anyone 

816
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,760
predicted any of those medals. 
Like, I mean, yeah, white men, I

817
00:44:40,760 --> 00:44:42,840
think yeah, we could tell you is
coming on strong. 

818
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,800
But I think Laros is probably 
the favorite. 

819
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:48,120
I've one thought going into it 
just based on the season. 

820
00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,840
And it's like if say he was 
injured for this final, I think 

821
00:44:53,840 --> 00:44:56,640
everyone would say, well, Larros
would have obviously won. 

822
00:44:56,640 --> 00:45:01,720
So it's it's tough to say that, 
but obviously I I like it. 

823
00:45:01,720 --> 00:45:07,240
Like I think it'll just fuel the
fire and kind of fuel the the 

824
00:45:07,240 --> 00:45:09,600
energy going into the next 
world's. 

825
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:12,880
In general, do you like out this
year because it's going to be 

826
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:15,800
the new norm, right, With, you 
know, the World Championships 

827
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,880
being the end of the season, 
which means like we're going to 

828
00:45:18,880 --> 00:45:21,200
be going into September most 
times. 

829
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:24,000
I guess the Olympics that year 
will be a little bit different. 

830
00:45:24,960 --> 00:45:27,680
But it, you know, a lot of, for 
a lot of people, it's felt like 

831
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,480
a long year. 
It showed for for some athletes,

832
00:45:30,880 --> 00:45:33,880
but for others, like they 
managed it well, where even for 

833
00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:36,360
you, like you had to be 
calculated about not 

834
00:45:36,360 --> 00:45:40,480
necessarily, you know, hitting 
home runs each of those April, 

835
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,040
May Grand Slam races, but 
showing up at the championship. 

836
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:48,760
So like it all now that it's 
over, Like, did you like it 

837
00:45:48,760 --> 00:45:50,520
'cause I guess now we're gonna 
have to do this the next two 

838
00:45:50,520 --> 00:45:53,920
years. 
Yeah, it's, I mean, it feels 

839
00:45:53,920 --> 00:45:57,160
like a long year and it all 
depends kind of how you run your

840
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,360
year. 
I think Grand Slam obviously 

841
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,240
added to that, like we got, we 
got going so early for that and 

842
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,800
that's just like a new concept 
and everyone was full on and at 

843
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,640
the beginning of the year, it's 
funny and there's like this 

844
00:46:11,640 --> 00:46:14,400
feeling that's like all the 
Olympics is over. 

845
00:46:14,400 --> 00:46:17,960
Like let's just kind of like 
send it this year and and do 

846
00:46:17,960 --> 00:46:20,720
what we want to do. 
And then as the season goes on, 

847
00:46:20,720 --> 00:46:22,240
it's like all of a sudden you're
like, oh, wait, there's a 

848
00:46:22,240 --> 00:46:24,800
world's like this is the most 
important thing. 

849
00:46:25,240 --> 00:46:28,560
And then everyone kind of dials 
in and I know what's important 

850
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:29,560
to me. 
And it's these global 

851
00:46:29,560 --> 00:46:32,600
championships. 
And I think after the season is 

852
00:46:32,600 --> 00:46:34,480
over, everyone can acknowledge 
that. 

853
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:36,480
Like where would you want to 
have Pete? 

854
00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,760
It's at worlds or the Olympics. 
But during the season it's like,

855
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:44,640
or we could try to set up a 
crazy fast race and a Diamond 

856
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:49,000
League and like that's super 
like there of course that the 

857
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:52,440
sport needs that like that. 
And I want to do that as well. 

858
00:46:52,440 --> 00:46:56,200
But you just got to know what's 
important to you before the 

859
00:46:56,200 --> 00:47:00,440
season starts. 
And I think now that yeah, world

860
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,360
is so late that that she was 
almost like a learning 

861
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,720
experience for everyone. 
And as the years like next 

862
00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:12,920
year's, there's no world. 
But yeah, 2027 people will kind 

863
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,840
of know how to how to approach 
it. 

864
00:47:15,920 --> 00:47:19,640
And I don't think it'll feel as 
long just because there's a 

865
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:23,880
clear end. 
And then I also said that before

866
00:47:23,960 --> 00:47:26,880
they did this, I remember when I
turned pro, I was like, so 

867
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:28,360
there's diamond legs after the 
world. 

868
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,480
I feel like that makes no sense.
Like you want that to be the 

869
00:47:30,480 --> 00:47:32,800
grand finale. 
And so I like it. 

870
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:34,320
I feel like it makes a lot of 
sense. 

871
00:47:34,880 --> 00:47:40,960
It is tougher as an American 
athlete not being able like, to 

872
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:45,120
travel and bounce to and from 
Europe as easily, especially 

873
00:47:45,160 --> 00:47:47,880
because we have the US 
championships that everyone has 

874
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:53,480
to be in great form for. 
And so and and that aspect kind 

875
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,000
of sucks, but I think it makes 
more sense, especially from like

876
00:47:58,000 --> 00:48:01,920
a viewer's standpoint. 
The celebration, just pure 

877
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,640
emotion like coming over you or 
you know, was it something that 

878
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,920
you allowed yourself to just 
kind of imagine and pre plan? 

879
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:14,320
Yeah, I mean, yeah, I I envision
crossing the line and put my 

880
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:17,480
hands out to be honest. 
Like it was just kind of like, 

881
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:20,880
yeah, I was fed up as how the 
meat went. 

882
00:48:21,000 --> 00:48:24,880
And yeah, the rest of it was 
just like, I don't even know. 

883
00:48:24,880 --> 00:48:27,480
I was just, I was just hyped. 
Like the high from that is 

884
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,600
pretty unbeatable. 
Like, yeah, it is an amazing 

885
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,680
feeling. 
And just out it's like that's 

886
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,320
that's where I feel like the 
most, most free. 

887
00:48:39,000 --> 00:48:42,280
Crossing the line and running 
out on the track is one thing, 

888
00:48:42,280 --> 00:48:44,960
but then crossing the line, 
doing what you set out to do, 

889
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:49,120
stadiums going crazy, like, 
yeah, I just want to like, live 

890
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:55,080
in that moment. 
The City of Smack podcast is 

891
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:59,440
presented by Lollipop. 
If you tune into our shows in 

892
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893
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900
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901
00:49:30,240 --> 00:49:32,920
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903
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theaters December 19th. 
All right, a couple fun 

904
00:49:40,960 --> 00:49:43,800
questions and then some rapid 
fire listener questions. 

905
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,920
But one thing I saw, I guess you
posted on Instagram, it is 

906
00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,360
because of your partnership with
with Gnomeo is that like, I 

907
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:53,280
guess you took it the night 
before the race And then just 

908
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:58,240
sort of with bicarb and all this
kind of stuff that people have 

909
00:49:58,240 --> 00:50:02,160
implemented into their training.
I guess like what explained 

910
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,640
Gnomeo and how you've, I guess, 
you know, gone about 

911
00:50:05,720 --> 00:50:08,400
implementing it into your 
training and your racing. 

912
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:13,200
And then at the same time, how 
does it combine with bicarb? 

913
00:50:13,480 --> 00:50:16,280
I heard that like the trash cans
at the warm up area were just 

914
00:50:16,560 --> 00:50:19,800
filled to the brim, which is 
like people's bicarb. 

915
00:50:19,800 --> 00:50:22,240
But then at the same time, 
someone like Jake said he 

916
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:25,600
stopped using it before the 
championships and he felt like 

917
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,200
so much better. 
So what was sort of your routine

918
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:31,000
going into this one? 
Yeah, I I've been using the 

919
00:50:31,000 --> 00:50:37,240
Gnomeo shot for the past few 
months, but I'm, I've never 

920
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:43,360
taken bicarb on a regular basis.
I don't race with it and I don't

921
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,000
like having. 
I'm not against any of this. 

922
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:48,880
It's just like finding what 
works for me. 

923
00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:53,720
And I think I probably helps for
some people to hear that because

924
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,640
there's not one answer. 
I don't know what the answer is,

925
00:50:57,640 --> 00:50:59,520
but I know for a fact there's 
not one answer. 

926
00:51:00,240 --> 00:51:03,920
So it's just like finding, first
of all, you want to practice 

927
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:05,760
with it what sits on your 
stomach. 

928
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:09,960
Well, and yeah, there's know me 
a shot, just like I know it's a 

929
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:13,640
lactate buffer. 
I'm not, I cannot describe it as

930
00:51:13,640 --> 00:51:18,200
well as they can. 
But yeah, it also helps in one 

931
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:19,680
way or another. 
You get a good night's rest, 

932
00:51:19,680 --> 00:51:22,160
like after a really hard 
exertion. 

933
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:25,200
So I think it's really good for 
like rounds like this. 

934
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:30,720
But like with that being said, I
think I think a lot of people 

935
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:34,120
put way too much value on 
products like that. 

936
00:51:34,240 --> 00:51:39,200
This is like this is like 
cutting edge stuff like like 

937
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:42,800
fine margins. 
That is not, it's not going to 

938
00:51:42,800 --> 00:51:45,280
get you a medal. 
It's going to be all the 

939
00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:47,840
training. 
And then maybe it separates you 

940
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:51,520
from gold and silver, silver and
bronze. 

941
00:51:51,800 --> 00:51:55,480
I doubt it. 
But like, we're all pro pro 

942
00:51:55,480 --> 00:51:59,320
athletes and everyone's going to
be looking for those, those very

943
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:03,920
fine details. 
So yeah, I just like I, I, I 

944
00:52:04,000 --> 00:52:06,800
really like the product and I, 
the science that they explain to

945
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:11,800
me makes a lot of sense. 
But yeah, I I think, I think 

946
00:52:11,800 --> 00:52:14,320
it's a good thing, but just 
don't put too much weight on any

947
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,400
anyone product. 
You brought up Bernard Lagat 

948
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:20,760
after your interview just 
because I guess like that you, 

949
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:23,720
Mike Scholl made history, just 
sort of or Bob Scholl made 

950
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:28,000
history as you know, the US men 
who have won the 5K at the World

951
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:30,000
Championships. 
And then you'd mention how like 

952
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,560
you've watched a bunch of his 
races. 

953
00:52:31,560 --> 00:52:33,960
Then you also in this interview,
I guess referenced like the 

954
00:52:34,040 --> 00:52:37,040
YouTube races you watch what's 
kind of like on your YouTube 

955
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:39,560
bookmarks of like, all right, 
that is probably like one of the

956
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:43,000
most hype races that like I 
would love to have something. 

957
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:46,000
Well, I guess you just made one 
of those for future generations 

958
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,120
back to it's like, all right, 
those are my favorites. 

959
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:51,040
The one that's pretty hard to 
beat. 

960
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,560
Is the going to get the year on?
But it's Elgar Rouge winning the

961
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:59,360
1500 at the Olympics and it's 
like the every for the last 800 

962
00:52:59,360 --> 00:53:05,120
meters. 
Every 200 is faster and it just 

963
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:06,560
like. 
The perfectly. 

964
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,400
Run race. 
I think that's the one where 

965
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,920
Legat was like they were neck 
and neck. 

966
00:53:12,600 --> 00:53:14,920
It's just like ridiculous. 
You see the guy coming and it 

967
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:16,160
looks like he's going to 
overtake him. 

968
00:53:16,160 --> 00:53:19,560
Then a groove somehow finds 
something else and hangs on. 

969
00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:23,800
Yeah, that one's like pretty all
time in my mind. 

970
00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:29,840
Yeah, I now I'm coming up blank,
but there's a few just. 

971
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:35,920
Also, our guru's doubling crazy 
holding up the number 2. 

972
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:38,040
It's like. 
Yeah, it's just like such a 

973
00:53:38,040 --> 00:53:41,920
goaded, goaded moment. 
I I think Lagat was before my 

974
00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,240
time to watch him live. 
Like I I didn't watch him 

975
00:53:45,240 --> 00:53:47,200
growing up. 
I watched accentuates and erupt.

976
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,880
I guess there's a little overlap
there, but it wasn't until like 

977
00:53:52,560 --> 00:53:55,640
college and then like when I 
turned pro where I started 

978
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,800
watching like back every race in
every worlds. 

979
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:03,160
Lagat would be in a medal, like 
in contention for a medal. 

980
00:54:03,160 --> 00:54:05,320
And I would just like every 
single one was like, what on 

981
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,160
earth? 
And then it'd be Algar Rouge 

982
00:54:07,160 --> 00:54:10,360
world record and Lagat would be 
like right behind him and like 

983
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:15,280
pressing on and I'm just like, 
yeah, I I was uneducated and now

984
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,000
I'm I'm fully informed on yeah, 
Lagat Lagoute. 

985
00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:22,720
Yeah. 
All right, so then it. 

986
00:54:23,120 --> 00:54:26,400
Tees up perfectly for my follow 
up question which which is 

987
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:31,440
another hypothetical 1. 
You this year fitness or last 

988
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,120
year fitness? 
Whichever 1 you want. 

989
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:38,640
Lining up against El Guruge back
in the day, how do you approach 

990
00:54:38,640 --> 00:54:40,840
the race to try and give 
yourself the best shot to win so

991
00:54:40,840 --> 00:54:43,920
he doesn't pull that like every 
200 squeeze on you? 

992
00:54:44,240 --> 00:54:48,680
I think I might be able to hang.
If he if he did that, yeah, 

993
00:54:48,680 --> 00:54:53,080
maybe get the jump on him. 
He's not expecting it like 500 

994
00:54:53,080 --> 00:54:56,520
out, go around, I don't know, 
throw a wrench into the works. 

995
00:54:57,400 --> 00:55:00,680
But yeah, we also haven't seen 
Al Gruge and Super Spikes, so I 

996
00:55:00,680 --> 00:55:04,280
know it's true. 
So in a similar vein. 

997
00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:07,520
Like with and you said you went 
back and watched past 

998
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:13,200
championship 5K races as well, 
but you know, in in the NBA, 

999
00:55:13,200 --> 00:55:16,200
right when they do, how would 
the Steph Curry Warriors have 

1000
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:21,400
fared up against like the MJ 
Bulls and that kind of stuff? 

1001
00:55:21,400 --> 00:55:24,480
So lining up the best of the 
best where it's like, all right,

1002
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:31,400
2023 Jakob, 2003 Kipchogi, you 
know, those 5K performances 

1003
00:55:31,400 --> 00:55:35,520
like, and then this time around 
you had the hardest close of all

1004
00:55:35,520 --> 00:55:37,880
of those. 
Like if they were in a race 

1005
00:55:37,880 --> 00:55:39,120
against you, like what do you 
think? 

1006
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,680
Like they would probably have to
try and get the jump on you like

1007
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,400
AK out, but then at the same 
time, it's like your fitness 

1008
00:55:45,400 --> 00:55:48,080
could probably still hang. 
So how do they run out? 

1009
00:55:48,200 --> 00:55:49,720
Run the kick out of you in that 
sense? 

1010
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:52,240
Yeah, I think that's been my 
whole. 

1011
00:55:53,160 --> 00:55:57,080
That's been why I've been how 
I've been training the past two 

1012
00:55:57,080 --> 00:56:03,080
years is how do I not let them 
get away from me because yeah, I

1013
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:06,120
don't know. 
The last time the race was sub 

1014
00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,960
13 at a global championship. 
I know the record at yeah, keep 

1015
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,640
show gays around 12:52. 
But yeah, I was looking at the 

1016
00:56:14,640 --> 00:56:17,600
last three. 
They were all like, I don't 

1017
00:56:17,920 --> 00:56:20,560
know, thirteen O 9 was maybe the
fastest 1. 

1018
00:56:22,040 --> 00:56:25,320
And so I, yeah, just looking at 
that, I feel like I fare well 

1019
00:56:25,320 --> 00:56:29,480
and like, yeah, we can compare 
to those hypotheticals, but also

1020
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,680
moving forward, like if someone 
wants to. 

1021
00:56:33,520 --> 00:56:37,000
Hammer from AK. 
Out I think like I think they 

1022
00:56:37,000 --> 00:56:41,920
did it in the earlier half at 
this race and you know I got 

1023
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,840
through it like it it didn't 
really it didn't faze me and 

1024
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:52,520
that's just like been since 2021
where I like went I don't know I

1025
00:56:52,520 --> 00:56:54,320
had the. 
The kick at USA is. 

1026
00:56:54,320 --> 00:56:58,080
That kind of put me on the map. 
And then pretty quickly I want 

1027
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,800
to learn they're like, oh, he's 
got to run his legs off of them,

1028
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:04,440
like, and then it it works. 
It worked for a while. 

1029
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:07,840
And now I feel like you're gonna
have to run a lot harder to run 

1030
00:57:07,840 --> 00:57:10,320
my legs off. 
So that's, that's what I'm 

1031
00:57:10,320 --> 00:57:12,680
trying to not let happen. 
Yeah. 

1032
00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:14,760
They can't fall asleep on the 
4th K Like that's. 

1033
00:57:14,800 --> 00:57:16,320
Also, I think like a pro tip to 
them. 

1034
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,720
All right, couple quick 
questions from listeners. 

1035
00:57:19,720 --> 00:57:23,280
Alan George 2005 asked, will you
run any pace Diamond League 5 KS

1036
00:57:23,280 --> 00:57:25,240
next season? 
They're already asking this 

1037
00:57:25,240 --> 00:57:26,240
year. 
I know. 

1038
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:28,160
Yeah, I I've not laid out the 
schedule. 

1039
00:57:28,160 --> 00:57:30,560
I don't even know if there is a 
schedule yet, but I would love 

1040
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:33,960
to, yeah. 
Kate Potter asks. 

1041
00:57:33,960 --> 00:57:35,640
What does Cole? 
Think his most competitive 

1042
00:57:35,640 --> 00:57:39,560
distance is now it's tough. 
I it's, it's really tough. 

1043
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:46,000
I think. 327 is still the better
PR, so yeah, I got to go. 

1044
00:57:46,000 --> 00:57:49,680
I got to go 15. 100 now, but. 
I think the, I think the goal 

1045
00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:51,200
posts have moved a little bit 
closer. 

1046
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:53,080
Yeah. 
Well, then also just sort of if 

1047
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:56,320
you meet in the middle and. 
Like hit the 3K, is there any 

1048
00:57:56,320 --> 00:58:00,200
part of you just sort of that 
like I know that the purpose of 

1049
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:05,280
the BU5K immediately after 
Milrose was to just get the 

1050
00:58:05,280 --> 00:58:08,920
standard. 
But yes, it was February and 

1051
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:12,640
super early on in the season. 
But had you ripped a fast all 

1052
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:16,000
out 5K, is that just sort of 
where you probably would have 

1053
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:19,960
fallen somewhere in that range 
of where Grant and Nico and 

1054
00:58:19,960 --> 00:58:22,440
Graham ran? 
You know, this season that were 

1055
00:58:22,440 --> 00:58:24,640
that race was really hard for it
was. 

1056
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,600
Weird because I was like, all 
right, I'm in 723 shape. 

1057
00:58:28,320 --> 00:58:31,520
What does this mean for the 5K? 
I'm like, I'm like, oh, grand 

1058
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:34,280
just ran 1244. 
Like, yeah, I was one second 

1059
00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:35,680
behind him and I'm not even a 
second. 

1060
00:58:35,760 --> 00:58:39,320
I'm like, I can run 12:45. 
And then we went off like we 

1061
00:58:39,320 --> 00:58:44,720
didn't, we didn't go out to run 
fast, much faster than 12 or 13 

1062
00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,120
flat. 
But yeah, I was, I was hurt in 

1063
00:58:47,120 --> 00:58:49,240
that race. 
So I was like, oh, maybe this is

1064
00:58:49,240 --> 00:58:51,640
a different maybe. 
Maybe I got to work on 5K 

1065
00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:53,320
fitness still. 
So I don't know. 

1066
00:58:53,320 --> 00:58:57,080
I I'm not going to just, yeah, I
just talk and say I get around 

1067
00:58:57,080 --> 00:59:01,120
at 12:45. 
But honestly now, now I feel 

1068
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,080
much closer to that. 
But season's over, so we got to 

1069
00:59:04,080 --> 00:59:07,440
do it next year. 
Sam Collins asks why the switch 

1070
00:59:07,440 --> 00:59:09,480
to the. 
Dragonflies in the 1500. 

1071
00:59:09,640 --> 00:59:11,280
It's so funny when people catch 
these things. 

1072
00:59:11,720 --> 00:59:13,920
Yeah, yeah. 
Well, I'm glad glad they did, 

1073
00:59:13,920 --> 00:59:15,840
because. 
There is a reason and I did it 

1074
00:59:15,840 --> 00:59:17,880
in Paris too. 
I ran in the dragonflies 

1075
00:59:18,320 --> 00:59:23,440
dragonfly elites the 1st 2 
rounds and then the victories in

1076
00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:26,160
the final just because the 
dragonflies are a little bit 

1077
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,040
easier on my calves and like, 
again, this is marginal, but the

1078
00:59:30,280 --> 00:59:32,400
I just feel like a little bit 
more aggressive in the 

1079
00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:35,080
victories. 
So this time around I didn't get

1080
00:59:35,080 --> 00:59:37,840
the chance to wear the victories
in the final, the 15. 

1081
00:59:37,840 --> 00:59:39,600
So then I would just dragonflies
for the home bait. 

1082
00:59:40,400 --> 00:59:42,720
So that's that's your answer. 
Oh, that's interesting. 

1083
00:59:43,560 --> 00:59:45,640
Willie T. 
Asked What kind of heat training

1084
00:59:45,640 --> 00:59:49,240
did you do for this? 
Yeah, we did a honestly the 

1085
00:59:49,240 --> 00:59:52,560
main. 
Thing was training in Stunton, 

1086
00:59:52,560 --> 00:59:57,120
Virginia all summer and we 
didn't get like you really kind 

1087
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:59,320
of avoid it even if you went 
super early, but we would run it

1088
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,640
like 9:00 AM, which was like 
super hot yeah. 

1089
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,840
And some of these sessions, like
I just soaked like it just 

1090
01:00:06,840 --> 01:00:09,280
completely soaked through all my
clothes two times a day. 

1091
01:00:10,000 --> 01:00:13,360
We, we do like, we run on the 
treadmill sometimes the double 

1092
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:14,680
and we're in this little room 
and. 

1093
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:16,600
There's no air conditioning in 
there. 

1094
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,720
And our coach is like, like in 
his chops. 

1095
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:21,400
And we're just suffering. 
So there's a lot of that. 

1096
01:00:21,640 --> 01:00:25,240
I did a lot of sauna sessions 
and yeah, so I'm like, just 

1097
01:00:25,240 --> 01:00:28,480
putting on a ton of clothes. 
But all right, well, we now 

1098
01:00:28,480 --> 01:00:32,760
share a mutual treadmill. 
Sponsor with Wahoo, I guess what

1099
01:00:32,760 --> 01:00:35,800
do you like about I guess the 
the kicker run let's plug it 

1100
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:40,360
yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, no, it's.
Honestly, I was using it a lot 

1101
01:00:40,360 --> 01:00:44,720
in the winter because equally 
the winters are have been brutal

1102
01:00:44,720 --> 01:00:46,280
and Virginia since I've been 
there. 

1103
01:00:46,520 --> 01:00:50,000
But it is, it is really good 
'cause I like how it changes the

1104
01:00:50,000 --> 01:00:52,160
grade. 
And I don't feel like, like 

1105
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:54,360
sometimes you get off a 
treadmill, your IT bands just 

1106
01:00:54,360 --> 01:00:56,120
cooked 'cause you've been 
running, you've been hitting 

1107
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,960
your foot in the exact same 
place for 10 miles. 

1108
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,200
And yeah, why he was good not to
do that. 

1109
01:01:02,520 --> 01:01:04,680
All right, The final question 
that. 

1110
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:09,040
I had was, Goosh asks respond to
the criticism about the tendency

1111
01:01:09,040 --> 01:01:10,840
to ride the rail. 
But we already did that. 

1112
01:01:10,840 --> 01:01:14,840
But in general, I think that 
that that covers it all. 

1113
01:01:14,840 --> 01:01:19,720
Cole, I appreciate you taking 
the time to reflect on an epic 

1114
01:01:19,840 --> 01:01:24,760
Tokyo World Championships, one 
of the best redemption stories 

1115
01:01:24,760 --> 01:01:28,160
of the entire season. 
And now you've got people 

1116
01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,040
anxiously, I guess, awaiting 
like, what you've got in store 

1117
01:01:31,040 --> 01:01:34,480
for 2026. 
But congratulations once again. 

1118
01:01:34,480 --> 01:01:37,160
And it was awesome to see all 
this play out. 

1119
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:39,880
Yeah, thank you very much. 
It was a it. 

1120
01:01:40,200 --> 01:01:43,800
Was a great mate, thank you all 
for listening to this. 

1121
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:45,360
Episode This episode was 
produced. 

1122
01:01:45,360 --> 01:01:48,480
By Jasmine Fair I love doing 
this for you guys, so please do 

1123
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:52,000
me a favor and leave a five star
view on Apple Podcast or Spotify

1124
01:01:52,000 --> 01:01:54,640
that helps us grow the show and 
get even more awesome guests. 

1125
01:01:55,040 --> 01:01:56,680
Let me know what you're enjoying
about the show. 

1126
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:59,160
Make sure you're subscribed or 
following on your favorite 

1127
01:01:59,160 --> 01:02:01,560
podcast players. 
Please share this episode with 

1128
01:02:01,560 --> 01:02:03,480
your friends if you think that 
they'll get any value or 

1129
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:05,640
inspiration out of it. 
Let's build this thing together.

1130
01:02:05,800 --> 01:02:07,800
Visit cityofsmack.com for a lot 
more. 

1131
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,200
We've got a brand new website 
with tons more articles, videos 

1132
01:02:10,200 --> 01:02:12,640
and podcasts. 
As always, I love track and 

1133
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:14,800
field. 
I'm Chris Chavez, see you next 

1134
01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:15,040
time.