1 00:00:01,600 --> 00:00:04,320 This episode of the City Smack podcast is presented by X 2 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,640 Endurance. When you finish a hard workout, 3 00:00:06,640 --> 00:00:10,160 whether it's a long run or a workout on the track or a big 4 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:12,760 lift session, the work isn't actually done. 5 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:16,200 We all know this. That's when recovery starts. 6 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:19,160 It can get expensive to constantly pop into a smoothie 7 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,840 shop after a run. So one of the things that I've 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,680 been doing lately is using X Endurance protein, which is 9 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,920 designed specifically to help your body recover, rebuild and 10 00:00:28,960 --> 00:00:32,880 get stronger after training. 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Check it all out at 42 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:16,480 xendurance.com. Code Sidious for 25% off your 43 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:20,280 first order. What's up everyone? 44 00:02:20,320 --> 00:02:22,440 You are listening to the CDs Mag podcast. 45 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:25,120 I'm your host Chris Chavez, and every week we go beyond the 46 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,760 results to bring you conversations with the biggest 47 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:30,160 names on the track, the roads and behind the scenes. 48 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,440 From world class athletes and coaches to innovators shaping 49 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:35,600 the sport. If it's happening on the track, 50 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:38,520 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:42,040 deep dives into the moments that define careers and the kind of 52 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,000 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 53 00:02:45,320 --> 00:02:48,680 So let's get into it because we love track and field. 54 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,320 Before we dive into today's episode, a quick moment of 55 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,400 gratitude. The only reason this show keeps 56 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,320 humming is because you press play, you text it to your 57 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,280 running buddies, and you care about this sport just as much as 58 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:02,760 we do. That means everything to us. 59 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,320 If the podcast has been part of your weekly routine, one of the 60 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:08,160 simplest ways to support it is by leaving a Five star View on 61 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,360 Apple Podcast. It helps more people find the 62 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:12,360 show and keeps us doing what we love. 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,320 And that's talking track with you. 64 00:03:15,240 --> 00:03:17,280 We also love shouting out listeners who take the time to 65 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:20,360 leave those reviews. So here's one that made me 66 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:23,040 smile. Chris Chavez practices what he 67 00:03:23,040 --> 00:03:24,920 preaches. I've been a listener for a while 68 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:26,680 now. Enjoy nerding out while I hear 69 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,400 Chris and pre breakdown race performances and speculate on 70 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,080 future ones. Love the data-driven estimates 71 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,240 but also the intuition of the host. 72 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,200 Imagine my surprise while I was doing my long run on the Central 73 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:40,560 Park Loop and I look up and I see Chris running toward me 74 00:03:40,880 --> 00:03:45,920 while his voice was in my ear. That one was from Sarah, Alaska. 75 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,760 OK, first of all, that was in fact, me. 76 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:51,960 Despite what my Strava has shown lately, I can't confirm. 77 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,080 I have been leaving the apartment and actually getting 78 00:03:54,080 --> 00:03:56,960 out for runs a little less lately since I've been dealing 79 00:03:56,960 --> 00:04:00,320 with some injuries and it's been brutally cold here in New York. 80 00:04:00,840 --> 00:04:03,520 But seriously, that review made my day. 81 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:06,080 There's something wild about thinking that the timing of 82 00:04:06,080 --> 00:04:08,960 everything lining up, that my voice might be in someone's 83 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:11,640 headphones while they're unknowingly sharing miles in the 84 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:14,240 same park as me. Thanks for listening, Sarah. 85 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:16,720 Thanks for nerding out with us. Really appreciate you. 86 00:04:17,600 --> 00:04:20,000 To everyone else listening, thank you. 87 00:04:20,079 --> 00:04:22,360 And if you feel the same way, taking a minute to leave a five 88 00:04:22,360 --> 00:04:24,760 star review on Apple Podcast is the best way to support the 89 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:26,560 show. We read every single one and 90 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:32,320 they genuinely mean a lot to us. My guest for today's episode is 91 00:04:32,320 --> 00:04:34,320 CJ Albertson. He's back on the show. 92 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,400 Regular listeners know that he's always one of the most 93 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,560 fascinating, unconventional, and honest voices in American 94 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,240 marathoning Believe. We last had him on the podcast 95 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:46,480 in 2024. He's a 2O8 marathoner. 96 00:04:46,680 --> 00:04:48,840 He was a member of the world championship team in the 97 00:04:48,840 --> 00:04:52,240 marathon last year for Team USA. And he's always captivated us 98 00:04:52,240 --> 00:04:55,440 because he does things his own way, whether it's leading major 99 00:04:55,440 --> 00:05:00,040 marathons from the gun, stacking up race after race, or embracing 100 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,960 a style of training that looks somewhat different from almost 101 00:05:02,960 --> 00:05:05,480 anyone else at his level right now. 102 00:05:05,480 --> 00:05:07,800 What's most interesting about him is that he's trying to 103 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:09,920 understand what's happening under the surface. 104 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:13,000 Because coming into this Boston Marathon build, CJ has been 105 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:16,880 dealing with something he's been trying to figure out for several 106 00:05:16,880 --> 00:05:20,160 years, a physiological disconnect where his body just 107 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:21,800 isn't responding the way it should. 108 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:26,920 He believes it's chronically low and inverted cortisol levels, so 109 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:30,480 his energy systems aren't firing properly and he's been balancing 110 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:33,240 this reality of trying to train and race at a world class level 111 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:37,320 while feeling like your body is operating at half capacity. 112 00:05:37,760 --> 00:05:40,240 By his own admission, his workouts often look average 113 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:43,800 compared to those of other elite runners, but when it comes to 114 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:47,320 race day for a marathon, he finds a way to compete and 115 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:51,400 extract the absolute most out of whatever fitness he has on the 116 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,800 day. In this conversation we go deep 117 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,640 into that, what it feels like when your body won't respond, 118 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:58,880 how he's working with Brooks to better understand his 119 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,040 Physiology, and why he's choosing not to force things as 120 00:06:02,040 --> 00:06:04,400 he looks towards the long game of 2028. 121 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:07,760 We also talked Boston and what 6 appearances on the course have 122 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,680 taught him, how he's adjusting his approach to this year and 123 00:06:11,680 --> 00:06:14,640 why success might have less to do with the time on the clock 124 00:06:14,840 --> 00:06:17,200 and more to do with just enjoying the race. 125 00:06:17,200 --> 00:06:19,920 Again, this is the first in a series of interviews that we're 126 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:22,200 doing with Brooks Marathoners in the lead up to the Boston 127 00:06:22,200 --> 00:06:24,440 Marathon. Stay tuned as we announce our 128 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:27,280 schedule of events with Brooks out of the Hyperion House. 129 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,200 We'll have a Shakeout run on Saturday morning at 8:00 AM if 130 00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:33,600 you want to just put that on your calendar, followed by a 131 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,440 live chat with Jess Mcclane and more. 132 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,480 But without further ado, here is CJ Albertson. 133 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:53,230 All. Right now, welcome back CJ 134 00:06:53,230 --> 00:06:54,590 Albertson. It's been a while since we've 135 00:06:54,590 --> 00:06:59,830 had you on the CDs Mag podcast, but getting ready for another 136 00:06:59,830 --> 00:07:03,990 Boston Marathon. CJ has training been going and 137 00:07:03,990 --> 00:07:06,270 and, and how how are things finding you right now? 138 00:07:06,390 --> 00:07:07,270 Yeah. Well, yeah, first. 139 00:07:07,270 --> 00:07:10,520 Yeah, it's good to be back. It has been a little while, but 140 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:12,480 yeah, things have been going all right. 141 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,480 Training hasn't been, it hasn't been the best. 142 00:07:17,480 --> 00:07:20,200 There's been, I don't know, a few, few different things. 143 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,880 Maybe we'll get into it a little bit later as it goes on. 144 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,920 But yeah, just some, a lot of the intensity I haven't quite 145 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:32,240 been able to to hit and just, yeah, having some kind of energy 146 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:36,280 issues and yeah, just making workouts not very great. 147 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,880 But I think I've run like 30 marathons or something now, so 148 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,200 I'm not like too worried as far as the marathon, you know, 149 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,400 usually those speed workouts are like, OK, maybe I can pop like a 150 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,800 2 minute PR. You know, this race doesn't 151 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:53,200 really seem to indicate that. But I'm still, you know, I'm 152 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,440 still pretty confident that I can race a marathon pretty well 153 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,800 just cuz I've done it so many Times Now. 154 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,800 Does anything feel different about this sort of build aside 155 00:08:00,800 --> 00:08:04,440 from, you know, feeling that it, you know, the the training is 156 00:08:04,440 --> 00:08:08,040 coming a little harder? It's somewhat similar to how 157 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,960 things have been kind of for a while. 158 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:13,560 I think just like a little bit more amplified. 159 00:08:14,920 --> 00:08:17,320 Yeah, I think I've always just kind of struggled to do the more 160 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:22,280 like high intensity workouts. And by that I mean basically 161 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:26,440 just like anything like threshold pace or faster, which 162 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:30,200 for some isn't even considered high intensity, but that's just 163 00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:31,960 what the perceived effort has felt like. 164 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,280 Yeah, again, I've always kind of like struggled with that a 165 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:36,679 little bit. Not so much on the running side, 166 00:08:36,679 --> 00:08:39,000 just like the energy side. Like it just feels really hard 167 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,640 to do. And then like, and just even 168 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:44,360 getting my heart rate really high, it just like, I don't 169 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,360 know, my body's just like, no, we're just not going to work 170 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,160 that hard. And then like, you know, the 171 00:08:49,160 --> 00:08:51,960 long, like the, the longer stuff that maybe like I'm like kind of 172 00:08:51,960 --> 00:08:54,640 like known for where it looks like it's really hard training. 173 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,880 It's like that's actually relatively low intensity 174 00:08:57,880 --> 00:08:59,360 training. I mean, you're well off 175 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:03,400 threshold pace. I'm just like a lot better than 176 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:07,640 most people that just cruising that, you know, maybe 20 seconds 177 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:10,080 slower than threshold pace. Whereas for a lot of people 178 00:09:10,080 --> 00:09:12,160 that's like that's hard for them. 179 00:09:12,160 --> 00:09:15,120 But yeah, so I've always been able to get that work in. 180 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,080 But again, that high intensity has been hard. 181 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,920 And I think leading up to the World Championships and then 182 00:09:21,920 --> 00:09:23,880 kind of into this, that's just been like a little bit 183 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:25,200 exaggerate. Like more. 184 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,840 Yeah, Brooks has been great. They've before, before worlds 185 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:32,880 and then kind of after we've been just, they've had different 186 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,840 tools for assessing, just training and recovery. 1 is like 187 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:42,640 monitoring like cortisol and, and so kind of monitoring that 188 00:09:42,640 --> 00:09:44,880 and usually like you're looking for like prolonged, like high 189 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,000 levels, like, oh, you know, you're overstressed 190 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,240 overtraining, like cortisol levels are higher than normal. 191 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,120 And mine were always like fairly low. 192 00:09:52,120 --> 00:09:55,320 So like it seemed like, oh, like I'm not, you know, whatever, not 193 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:58,640 overstressed or whatever. But but then like as you're kind 194 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:02,720 of looking more at it is like my levels are like always really 195 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,760 low or they have been. And I remember just like I'm 196 00:10:05,760 --> 00:10:09,400 like always tired pretty much, especially in the mornings. 197 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,240 Like I just wake up and it's like, do we have to like do life 198 00:10:13,240 --> 00:10:14,760 today? Like I'm not, I'm not ready. 199 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:17,960 Like let's just. And yeah. 200 00:10:17,960 --> 00:10:21,200 So then I was like we're kind of looking at as like I remember 201 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,000 like like 1 long run specifically. 202 00:10:23,000 --> 00:10:25,680 Like I woke up and like my cortisol was like 3 and like, I 203 00:10:25,680 --> 00:10:27,960 didn't think anything of it. Like, this is first thing in the 204 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:31,400 morning. And then right after my long 205 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,520 run, I measured it again and it was still 3. 206 00:10:33,880 --> 00:10:37,320 And I was like, I don't think that's right, but, you know, 207 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:40,120 whatever. And then I don't know why it 208 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:42,520 didn't click before. But then we were just kind of 209 00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:45,160 talking about. Brooks has a physiologist named 210 00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,280 Bridget, and we've worked together since before world or 211 00:10:48,280 --> 00:10:49,200 so. Yeah, since when they brought 212 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,480 her on. And. 213 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:52,080 Yeah. And it was like, that's like, 214 00:10:52,080 --> 00:10:53,720 not normal. Like your level should be like 215 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:55,960 pretty high in the morning because I get wakes you up. 216 00:10:55,960 --> 00:10:59,280 Cortisol like gets you ready for the day, gets you ready for you 217 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:01,440 need little stressors or basically to get your body to 218 00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,720 release energy. And mine just wasn't really 219 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:06,720 going up. And then when you exercise, it 220 00:11:06,720 --> 00:11:10,000 should fight or fight system should kick on release. 221 00:11:11,160 --> 00:11:14,280 And it seems like mine hasn't really been responding to that 222 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:18,040 either. So I'm basically been running as 223 00:11:18,040 --> 00:11:20,480 if like my hormone levels are like when I'm asleep. 224 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:24,240 So, or like when, you know, a normal level, like your cortisol 225 00:11:24,240 --> 00:11:25,880 levels would be that like while you're sleeping. 226 00:11:25,880 --> 00:11:29,400 And like that's just me when I'm trying to do like run fast. 227 00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:31,760 So it doesn't. And which makes sense, like, oh, 228 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:34,560 like that's why everything feels pretty hard. 229 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:37,400 But like my metrics are saying it's not really that hard. 230 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:41,200 Like heart rate's not high, like everything, you know, is just 231 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:44,600 kind of whatever. But yeah, it's just. 232 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,600 And then I always get like, super like this has been long as 233 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:50,680 I can remember. You just get super hot at night 234 00:11:51,520 --> 00:11:54,400 and feel more alert at night. And then like, my cortisol 235 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:56,480 levels have been kind of higher at night than they are in the 236 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:58,840 morning, which is completely flip-flopped and opposite. 237 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,480 It doesn't necessarily make anything better knowing that 238 00:12:01,480 --> 00:12:04,280 because it's like, OK, well, we still have to figure out what we 239 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:07,520 do with that. And I don't have any like other 240 00:12:07,520 --> 00:12:10,800 glaring deficiencies, you know, like, like runners, like their 241 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:12,800 iron might be low or vitamin D might be low. 242 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:14,800 And it's like, oh, those are kind of quick fixes. 243 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,200 You supplement their backup and you feel great. 244 00:12:17,200 --> 00:12:20,760 All those like quickly these things is like everything's 245 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:23,640 working on like every test of ever gotten has been good. 246 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,800 It's just like the rhythms of my body aren't working right, it 247 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,800 seems like. And so, you know, that my energy 248 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:34,320 and energy output is just temporarily kind of messed up, 249 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,040 but not temporary because I feel like looking back, I think I've 250 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:40,760 felt like this since about my senior year of high school. 251 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:45,320 I remember like a dramatic shift in like, I feel different and 252 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:50,880 even like as far as like feeling good, like like your dopamine 253 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,600 receptors, I guess are like linked with cortisol and like 254 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:58,080 cortisol release will like allow dopamine to bind to those 255 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:00,480 receptors, I guess. And so like you're not going to 256 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:06,200 feel as good, like if you don't have like the right levels of 257 00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,360 cortisol, which I never even thought of, I always just 258 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,440 thought of like cortisol is like kind of bad, you know, like 259 00:13:11,840 --> 00:13:13,480 don't want it to be too high, you're too stressed. 260 00:13:13,480 --> 00:13:14,760 Got to keep cortisol levels down. 261 00:13:14,760 --> 00:13:17,080 But it's actually pretty important. 262 00:13:17,560 --> 00:13:19,840 And that's something I've like felt like a lot like I felt like 263 00:13:19,840 --> 00:13:23,040 at some point right around the end of high school, like a lot 264 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:26,160 of my like joy or like enjoyment, happiness and doing 265 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:28,000 things was just like kind of taken away. 266 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:30,640 And it's a very different feeling from depression because 267 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:32,520 I felt kind of feelings of those two. 268 00:13:32,520 --> 00:13:34,960 But there's a distinct difference between like 269 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:38,280 depressive feelings and just lack of enjoyment feelings. 270 00:13:39,120 --> 00:13:42,080 And so now this kind of looking back, I feel like this sort of 271 00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,400 rhythm or like behavior of like fluctuations has kind of been 272 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:49,160 off and on for like maybe like 14 years now. 273 00:13:49,160 --> 00:13:52,600 And again, I don't, we don't know how to immediately fix it, 274 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:57,400 but it's like, again, every test I've ever gotten has says like 275 00:13:57,400 --> 00:14:01,160 you're perfect, like you're everything is in its optimal, 276 00:14:01,160 --> 00:14:05,200 like nutrients and everything, your thyroid hormone, everything 277 00:14:05,200 --> 00:14:07,480 is fine. So you should feel great. 278 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:09,120 And I'm like, well, I don't really feel great. 279 00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:11,280 I mean, obviously I'm highly functional. 280 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:14,520 I've ran two O 8. I've done a bunch of things in 281 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:19,680 my career, both running and even like at work and stuff, but I 282 00:14:19,680 --> 00:14:23,120 still like have known like I'm not like fully myself. 283 00:14:25,160 --> 00:14:29,200 And I know that like the workouts, it's like, I mean 284 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:31,200 workouts in high school were so intense. 285 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,280 Like I could just like everywhere. 286 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:36,040 I feel like we just had really hard intense workouts like speed 287 00:14:36,040 --> 00:14:38,160 wise. But I was like, I could do 288 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:39,680 those. And now I'm like, if I had to go 289 00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,840 back to high school training, I would not last. 290 00:14:42,880 --> 00:14:45,720 So, but yeah, so that's kind of what I mean. 291 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:48,880 So like a lot of I've been trying to like not not try to 292 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,840 force it because I know that I just don't feel like I'm at like 293 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,800 a time in my career was like, I need to like try to like force 294 00:14:54,880 --> 00:14:57,440 everything to happen, especially when things probably aren't 295 00:14:58,080 --> 00:15:01,280 going to be like, I'm not going to get maybe a ton of benefits 296 00:15:01,280 --> 00:15:03,240 from forcing some work out anyways. 297 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,680 So yeah, I mean, I think there's a lot of time until the 2028 298 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,160 trials. And it's like, I mean, obviously 299 00:15:10,160 --> 00:15:13,000 every race I want to like, do as best as I can, but it's like, 300 00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:16,720 yeah, I'm like, I just need to figure some things out. 301 00:15:16,720 --> 00:15:19,960 And so yeah, I've kind of just been running hard. 302 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:22,760 Like if I feel good and like I feel like I want to run hard 303 00:15:22,760 --> 00:15:24,720 right now, then I'll just like, run hard. 304 00:15:25,000 --> 00:15:28,040 But that's how my workouts are. Yeah, cuz I, I think like the 305 00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,160 last time we caught up was probably right after New York 306 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:35,840 and then you went on to run CIM and you finished 2020, 2024, 307 00:15:35,920 --> 00:15:41,520 just everything was right between like 2, two O 8 and 210 308 00:15:41,520 --> 00:15:46,440 super low. And then we go into 2025 it was 309 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:51,000 Boston 210 and then after that Ottawa, you go and run two O 310 00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:53,600 855. So when you're talking about all 311 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,920 this, you know, the cortisol issues and stuff like that, was 312 00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:58,320 that something that you started to feel, I think a little bit 313 00:15:58,320 --> 00:16:02,920 more emphasized, I think right after Ottawa and before Tokyo? 314 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:05,720 Or like, what were the signs there that something was up? 315 00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,480 Again, looking back, I think the signs are really from like my, 316 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,960 my senior year of high school and like, that'd be a very long 317 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:17,120 story. But yeah, I would say the signs 318 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:20,280 were really then because I, I mean, I had like a three-year 319 00:16:20,280 --> 00:16:22,680 block where I didn't PR, I was running really slow. 320 00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,160 I couldn't I could do decent training, but when it came to 321 00:16:26,160 --> 00:16:29,960 racing and like really pushing, I just like I just couldn't, I 322 00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,280 don't know, like I sucked like I couldn't do it. 323 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:36,520 And then eventually obviously I got a little bit better kind of 324 00:16:36,520 --> 00:16:40,040 just because I'd ran the steeple and I couldn't you know, was 325 00:16:40,360 --> 00:16:44,600 maybe less competitive than it is now and I ran like 1350. 326 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,840 I mean, I've started running like solid again, but but it's 327 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:52,120 still like I wasn't fantastic. And then, yeah, I took a year 328 00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:55,880 off of training or a little over that because I was done after 329 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,000 college. And then I think my body did 330 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:01,400 maybe reset a little bit because when I trained for my first 331 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,480 block, it was pretty easy. I still didn't do super intense 332 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:10,760 workouts, but I could do fairly fast stuff and it just like if I 333 00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,599 like went out for a workout, like I didn't really have to 334 00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:14,920 think about it. Like if I warmed up and started 335 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:17,200 a workout like I had, I could just do it. 336 00:17:17,440 --> 00:17:19,000 Whereas like I don't know a lot of times. 337 00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:20,800 And now it's like I start a workout and like I just 338 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:23,119 nothing's happening. I can't run like I don't know 339 00:17:23,119 --> 00:17:27,400 how to describe it fully, but so I had like a brief period of 340 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:31,240 time where I felt like I could like just do stuff pretty well 341 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:33,680 still. Like if I had tried to hit like 342 00:17:33,680 --> 00:17:38,280 VO2 Max or something, it was like those were still like, you 343 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:41,040 know, I get about 90 seconds into what should be like my VO2 344 00:17:41,040 --> 00:17:44,120 Max pace and it's like that's like I'm, it just feels so hot, 345 00:17:44,120 --> 00:17:47,080 like so hard. And then yeah, for most, I think 346 00:17:47,080 --> 00:17:50,120 for most of my training, even when I've been running like 347 00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,400 pretty well. I mean, if you look at my 348 00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,600 training, like I think my workouts are like have been very 349 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,040 mediocre at best. Like, again, I'll have the 350 00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,240 really good long runs, which is what people see. 351 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:02,960 But if you look at like my midweek, like if I'm doing mile 352 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:07,520 repeats or 1200s or a tempo or whatever, it's like, yeah, this 353 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:11,120 guy's just your average college runner or maybe slightly above 354 00:18:11,120 --> 00:18:13,080 average. You know, he's like your, he's 355 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:17,160 like, you know, your Oklahoma State's number 9 guy or your 356 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:21,040 BYU's number 13 or you know, your Portland's number 5 or 357 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:23,600 whatever. Like a solid dude, but like just 358 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:25,200 another guy. Like I mean I would struggle to 359 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:28,800 be in their workouts, but I mean obviously. 360 00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:30,080 I'm you're not all American. Yeah. 361 00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:31,360 Yeah, but I'm good. Yeah. 362 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,600 I would not if I had to run cross country in NCAAI, don't 363 00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,600 think I'd crack the top 100, but especially on grass. 364 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:41,200 If it. Yeah, if it was a road race, 365 00:18:41,200 --> 00:18:43,040 maybe. But yeah. 366 00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:45,480 So yeah, I think that's always been there. 367 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:51,640 I think before Chicago 2024, like that fall, I had taken a 368 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:54,760 long time off. After it must have been Boston 369 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,400 from 2024 and then actually training wasn't really going 370 00:18:59,400 --> 00:19:02,760 that well because I was kind of out of shape and then just 371 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:04,840 things weren't clicking and then I don't know what happened. 372 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,320 I must, my body must have got into a right rhythm because like 373 00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:11,120 workouts just started something super easy and like I could hit 374 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:15,040 some some faster pace workouts. I could do some like low 375 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:18,920 intensity VO2 Max stuff like VO26 hundreds that like, you 376 00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:24,280 know, like one 33134 and then like I but I and I could run 377 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:28,160 like like tempos, like close to 440 pace, which doesn't sound 378 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:31,000 super impressive, but like I don't know when I do tempos, I 379 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,400 could run them barely faster than I run my long run pace. 380 00:19:33,400 --> 00:19:36,920 But yeah, or I could like start a tempo hard like at like 430 381 00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:40,240 pace and then back off to like, you know, 450 and like I could 382 00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,560 alternate and just like my workouts were way better. 383 00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:47,280 I don't know why, I just felt there was like a six weeks block 384 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,040 and that's all it was. It was only six weeks at the 385 00:19:49,040 --> 00:19:51,280 most where I like, I just everything just felt good and I 386 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:53,320 was basically doing double days like in the morning and 387 00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,360 afternoon. I just get some volume in. 388 00:19:55,360 --> 00:19:58,920 Most of it was around 10K threshold pace with a little bit 389 00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:01,200 of VO2 Max mix in there. But like I didn't have to force 390 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,480 it. I just like, I just chose to do 391 00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:03,880 it. I did. 392 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:05,920 It felt pretty good. I went home and that was it. 393 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:10,920 And yeah, and then I ran a big PR, had a pretty good race in 394 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,960 New York. By CIMI was a little tired and 395 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,360 but like, yeah, like that was a great block. 396 00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:20,680 And then but really I would say that was really my, even as a 397 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,640 professional, that was probably my really only I'd say like 398 00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:27,080 truly good block and it was probably for like 7 weeks. 399 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:32,240 I'm just, I think probably one of the best marathon specific 400 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:37,040 runners relative to my speed that there is. 401 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:41,160 And I think I can say that without sounding arrogant 402 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:43,160 because it's, I think it's just like a fact probably. 403 00:20:43,920 --> 00:20:47,240 So like, yeah, I can I've been able to have relative success, 404 00:20:47,240 --> 00:20:50,520 but like the success at like running like a 2O5 level or like 405 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:54,440 2O four and like being competitive even on the American 406 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:57,280 stage now, because in 2028 they'll probably be at least 407 00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:01,480 three guys that are capable or have ran two O 5 or faster or 408 00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:05,080 even in the 2O fours by then. It's like you, you have to have 409 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,000 like pretty good speed. And I think my baseline genetics 410 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,400 are capable of that. Like I think I was, I had 411 00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:15,960 pretty, I had good speed in high school, like even raw 400 speed 412 00:21:17,120 --> 00:21:20,280 and was like a natural, like decently good 800 Miller when I 413 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,960 first started. Yeah, I felt like I lost it. 414 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,880 But I'm now looking. I think it's just, there's just 415 00:21:25,880 --> 00:21:28,560 been something, my body's been like reserving that high 416 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,960 intensity and because something's been off. 417 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:35,760 And so I think I have the capacity to train at that kind 418 00:21:35,760 --> 00:21:39,280 of high level, at that higher intensities to like push that 419 00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:41,480 threshold down to like 4:30 or so. 420 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,040 But the window is also getting smaller because I'm getting 421 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:46,360 older. Like my hips have been hurting 422 00:21:46,360 --> 00:21:50,520 and I'm like, oh, man. Like I I still, I still think I 423 00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:54,080 have a window of being in my prime. 424 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,880 But it's also, you know, realistically getting shorter. 425 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:03,880 This episode of the City Smack Podcast is supported by Wahoo. 426 00:22:05,440 --> 00:22:09,280 You've got 26.2 miles of work. Heartbreak Hill, the Newton 427 00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:14,280 Hills, that long grinding stretch from mile 16 to 20. 428 00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,680 You've studied the course. You've circled the date on the 429 00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:19,720 calendar. You've sacrificed the early 430 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:23,000 mornings for long runs. You've sacrificed your social 431 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:24,240 plans. You've put in the work. 432 00:22:24,520 --> 00:22:28,800 But there's a difference between knowing a course and knowing a. 433 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,120 Course. 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Like it's guys are running what, 472 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,520 2O62O7 people popping out of nowhere like Ethan Shuley going 473 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:37,760 out and running two O 7 out in in Japan, Even someone like 474 00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:40,280 Ethan Shuley because this, all this stuff is on Strava. 475 00:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,680 Like did you take a look at what he's sort of done and how much 476 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,000 of it did make sense to you? Because like he's one of those 477 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:49,560 guys who I think blasted 140 mile weeks and stuff like that 478 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,240 just in the lead up to that 207. And sort of like when I was 479 00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:55,880 looking at sort of his training, I'm like gotta wonder like what 480 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,160 someone like CJ's interpreting here out of someone like his 481 00:25:00,160 --> 00:25:03,760 data? I took like a maybe 10 minutes 482 00:25:03,760 --> 00:25:06,080 scroll through Strava like shortly after he did it and 483 00:25:06,080 --> 00:25:07,880 looked at it. I don't think I've done a full 484 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:10,600 analysis, so I'm not gonna talk too much about his training 485 00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:12,360 like. Rickman is the other one that's 486 00:25:12,360 --> 00:25:14,840 just like his is a little bit more mind boggling cuz he was 487 00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,320 also training out in Montana and like it was just. 488 00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:20,160 These. Rickman run Rickman. 489 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:22,880 Yeah, Rickman's training. Before, yeah, his was more. 490 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,720 I was like, yeah, his is like, how did he run that fast? 491 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:29,320 Yeah, Shulia's made. I mean, looking at all of his 492 00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,760 workouts is like, yeah, that that makes sense. 493 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:35,000 I think it was only surprising because you typically know all 494 00:25:35,000 --> 00:25:38,360 of the Americans and like, you know, you expect and like his is 495 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:40,480 like, well, you didn't know. It was surprising in the sense 496 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,000 of like this kind of guy you didn't know that was American 497 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:46,040 ran fast. And that usually doesn't happen. 498 00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:51,600 But if you were just, you know, let's say like, let's say he was 499 00:25:51,600 --> 00:25:53,920 from another country and you just looked at his job or you're 500 00:25:53,920 --> 00:25:56,560 like, yeah, this this guy's bargain around like 2O62O7 like 501 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:58,880 it made. Yeah, I would definitely agree 502 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:00,160 with that. And then Rickman's training and 503 00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:01,840 I was like, he's just good. I don't know. 504 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:04,800 He ran fast, like even his half when he ran, what did he run 505 00:26:04,800 --> 00:26:08,840 like around 61 flat or just over under, over under 61? 506 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:10,880 And he ran two of them right there. 507 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,440 So he was consistent at it. Yeah. 508 00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:14,720 It's like looking off that training. 509 00:26:14,720 --> 00:26:17,600 Like, I wouldn't necessarily have expected that, but yeah. 510 00:26:17,840 --> 00:26:19,160 Yeah, this new wave is coming quick. 511 00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:21,560 And then you've also got I guess like Grant is taking to the 512 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,960 roads and you know, you ran his first half marathon. 513 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:27,800 But bringing the focus back to to you, if we continue on and 514 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,320 just sort of examining 2025 and that's where I want to start is 515 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,560 just sort of making sense of 2025 leading into 2026. 516 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:36,120 And you said you, you know, you've been dealing with the 517 00:26:36,120 --> 00:26:38,600 quarter sole issues for a long, long time. 518 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,360 Ottawa was a good performance. I guess what the winner got 519 00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:44,880 popped for doping, right? And then Roy was second and then 520 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:47,520 you were third. Then we go out to world champs. 521 00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:51,280 You finished 40th in 219. You know, I think you were 522 00:26:51,280 --> 00:26:55,240 pretty blunt on Instagram that it was maybe the worst marathon 523 00:26:55,240 --> 00:26:57,680 of of your career. What went wrong in Tokyo? 524 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:02,760 I mean, I don't fully know. Obviously I wasn't good. 525 00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,680 I think, yeah, I think the build, I mean the build went OK 526 00:27:09,120 --> 00:27:11,800 I didn't. Everything felt a little harder 527 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,120 in that build. Like it just, I don't know, like 528 00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,280 it's just, yeah, like those kind of faster paces weren't really 529 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:21,840 clicking and I wasn't super concerned because I was like, 530 00:27:21,840 --> 00:27:23,520 we're not going to run fast anyways. 531 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:26,400 I mean, the, they're not, I mean, people are going to barely 532 00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:28,040 crack 210. Like that's just how the race is 533 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:30,520 going to be. So I wasn't like super concerned 534 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,840 that like I wasn't hitting those like 440 paces really smooth. 535 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:36,120 I mean, I would have liked to for sure. 536 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,440 And like I, that's what my, I intended to in training and was 537 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,560 trying to do the workouts that would lead to that, but it just, 538 00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,240 it wasn't, I don't exactly know what was happening. 539 00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:47,520 Yeah, I think we like tried to do like a lot of heat heat 540 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,600 training and that felt fine. Like I felt adapted to the heat. 541 00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:55,480 And they didn't actually, I didn't actually feel that hot in 542 00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,080 Tokyo. I mean, by the heck, by the end 543 00:27:58,080 --> 00:27:59,320 of the race, I was running so slow. 544 00:27:59,320 --> 00:28:04,040 My, my heart rate at one point was in like the one 40s and it 545 00:28:04,040 --> 00:28:05,680 was like low one 50s towards the end. 546 00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:08,360 So like, I, I was fine with the heat because like, my 547 00:28:08,360 --> 00:28:10,480 cardiovascular system was not working. 548 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:12,920 Like it was, I mean, like it wasn't working hard. 549 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:17,120 Yeah, but I kind of just shut down like intensity wise, which 550 00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:18,680 hasn't really happened to me in a marathon. 551 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,720 I've typically been able to race pretty much the whole way. 552 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,680 But before Chicago, I had gotten like some things tested and like 553 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:30,680 my testosterone had dropped about like 55%. 554 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:31,920 Or something. When you noted that in the 555 00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:34,880 caption, that was wild. Yeah, it had gone from like 6 556 00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:39,720 around like 6:50 to like 290, but it was a pretty significant 557 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,680 drop, I think. And I don't know what it was at 558 00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:45,720 Worlds because like after in between worlds and Chicago, I 559 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,240 mean, I took it pretty easy. So there's a chance I was even 560 00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:53,480 in a lower state at at Worlds when I got to Worlds. 561 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,040 I mean, you try to travel the best that you can. 562 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,320 I know I wasn't sleeping great. I was trying to sleep as much as 563 00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,960 I could, but I just, I don't know, I mean, your 16 hour 564 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,080 different time zone. So my body was a little off all 565 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:11,960 of my like, all of my little like watch metrics and stuff was 566 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,720 like, don't run like you're not like your body's messed up, like 567 00:29:16,720 --> 00:29:19,440 your HIV scores and all that. They were all like super low. 568 00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,160 And you know, I think my, my training readiness was like a 569 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,920 one almost every day, like when I was in Tokyo, but I didn't 570 00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:27,840 actually feel that bad. I think like, you know, you're 571 00:29:27,840 --> 00:29:29,800 so excited. Like it's so like I'm just like, 572 00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,280 OK, it's a watch. Like it's not. 573 00:29:31,640 --> 00:29:34,840 Doesn't these metrics like they're they're important to 574 00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:36,840 look at sometimes, but they don't really matter. 575 00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:42,640 So I still felt confident going into the race, but obviously, 576 00:29:42,880 --> 00:29:45,800 you know, I might something was off him. 577 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,200 I'd like just yeah, I just wasn't fully right. 578 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,600 I don't know if I'll ever like fully know, but I think just 579 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:55,400 looking like there again, probably something like overall, 580 00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,720 like, you know, my hormones weren't great. 581 00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:02,040 I would assume like my stress response system just like wasn't 582 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:05,640 great and like I so I just couldn't really push, yeah. 583 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:07,560 Yes. So since Chicago, I guess, what 584 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:10,360 is the search for answers sort of look like, you know, you got 585 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,520 to put in the training for this next sort of marathon build, but 586 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,560 where are you setting up other doctor's appointments and stuff 587 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,200 to try and figure all that stuff out? 588 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:23,960 After Chicago I let's see, I took like I took a decent amount 589 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:27,240 of time off just running pretty easy, like very low mileage. 590 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,440 And I mean, I get test like everything, but like my like 591 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:32,720 testosterone levels and stuff had come back up and like, I 592 00:30:32,720 --> 00:30:34,600 felt pretty. I felt decent. 593 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:38,240 And then, yeah, I mean, I couldn't necessarily like find 594 00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,680 really anything wrong. Yeah. 595 00:30:40,680 --> 00:30:43,160 And I again, I felt, I felt OK coming back and then like 596 00:30:43,160 --> 00:30:47,480 starting to train back again. I kind of just felt like more or 597 00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,320 less like how I always feel. Like I always just feel 598 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,080 generally pretty tired and when I go to sleep and then when I 599 00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:56,120 wake up, like it just like I never really feel good. 600 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:57,920 But it's been like that for like so long. 601 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,040 It's like, that's just normal. So like this training block, 602 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:03,120 just kind of looking more closely at some of those 603 00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,720 numbers, like with the cortisol and there's like tracking more 604 00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:07,920 of my body rhythms. There's another thing with like 605 00:31:07,920 --> 00:31:12,160 blood testing and things, any test you do, it's like a lot of 606 00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,160 like single one off tests. I don't know. 607 00:31:15,200 --> 00:31:17,800 I mean they don't always. Sometimes they like show 608 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,760 something very obvious. But I think really you have to 609 00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:24,920 get like your rhythm, like your body more functions and rhythms 610 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:27,280 and like all of your levels are going to be fluctuating. 611 00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:31,880 And, and I think like the rhythm of how your body works and when 612 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,880 it secrets certain things or releases or stops certain things 613 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,640 is like just as important probably. 614 00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,640 And that that's a little bit harder to, because it's not just 615 00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:43,080 like an obvious marker of like, oh, this is low. 616 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,560 It's kind of a harder thing to, to figure out. 617 00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:48,600 And like on like on paper, it's like, I feel like I do a lot of 618 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,000 things right, Like try to go to bed at the same time every 619 00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:53,160 night, try to like wake up at the same time. 620 00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,400 I don't always do that. There's some off days, but it's 621 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:59,160 like, but I think part of being a healthy human is also having 622 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,720 some resiliency. So you don't have to be like a 623 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,600 glass house that like has to have your perfect routine every 624 00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:06,920 day or you completely fall apart. 625 00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,360 Like that's, that's not how like humans are like super adaptable. 626 00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,120 And if you're healthy, you should have, you know, you 627 00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,160 should be able to stick to your routine most of the time, but 628 00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,160 like you're healthy enough to, if your routine gets slightly 629 00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,360 thrown off, like you're good, like you can handle that. 630 00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,640 And so, yeah, I feel like I do most of the things where I have 631 00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:27,880 most of the behaviors, right? Like there's not these glaring, 632 00:32:28,040 --> 00:32:31,440 you know, it's not like I'm like, you know, just drinking 633 00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:34,680 alcohol a bunch five times a week and like staying out 634 00:32:34,680 --> 00:32:37,800 partying, like I'm like not doing anything that's like 635 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:40,160 obvious. So it's it's just a little bit 636 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,600 harder to like figure out like, OK, how do you do this? 637 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,520 And I, I mean, I do take like a decent, I mean, if you, I take a 638 00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:51,640 decent amount of time off of training, like if you look at my 639 00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:56,200 little running logs on Strava, like I have way more low weeks 640 00:32:56,200 --> 00:33:00,880 than than most people. So it's not purely just because 641 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:04,160 everyone is always like, oh, well, overtraining like, yeah, I 642 00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,760 get, I know what you mean. But first of all, what is 643 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,080 overtraining like? Like actually what is, how are 644 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:13,360 you even calculating the load on your body? 645 00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:16,760 Like let's say if you do a five mile threshold run, how does 646 00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:21,080 that affect your body if you did a 12 mile run at 6:40? 647 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:25,200 Like no one even knows what is actually happening to their 648 00:33:25,200 --> 00:33:26,400 like. So when people say like 649 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:30,560 overtraining is the most lazy answer to anything ever. 650 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:34,600 Like sometimes it is the answer, but well, you don't even know 651 00:33:34,600 --> 00:33:37,400 what is called. Like what is the overtraining? 652 00:33:37,400 --> 00:33:39,960 Like, I mean, there's just so many factors into your body 653 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,280 maintaining equilibrium or like healthy adaptation to the 654 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,680 stimulus you're giving it. So yeah, it's not as simple as 655 00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:49,480 it. I'm like, I'm like, I do think 656 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:52,080 sometimes, yeah. If I just stopped running all 657 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,320 together, would I feel generally better throughout the day? 658 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,440 Probably, I think. But I also really love running 659 00:33:58,440 --> 00:34:01,960 and I love yeah, like that's not like an answer, you know, or at 660 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:03,960 least right now, maybe at some point it will be. 661 00:34:03,960 --> 00:34:05,800 But like, that's not it right now. 662 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:10,199 So and again, I do take those break, like I do take extended 663 00:34:10,199 --> 00:34:14,520 down times, but that hasn't, it's worked a little bit 664 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,639 temporarily, but it's not quite salt. 665 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,080 Like I'm still having issues when I'm coming back. 666 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,679 So yeah, I think right now we're still in the discovery process. 667 00:34:22,679 --> 00:34:24,239 And again, Brooks is really great. 668 00:34:24,360 --> 00:34:28,400 They're really just helping with that process of like trying to 669 00:34:29,080 --> 00:34:32,560 to figure things out and look at maybe like deeper things and 670 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,400 just kind of standard blood tests that tell me I'm great and 671 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:39,880 I'm perfect and I should just be living AI should just feel great 672 00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:43,639 all the time. But yeah, so I'm super thankful 673 00:34:43,639 --> 00:34:46,639 for them and that, you know, partnership and, and it's cool 674 00:34:46,639 --> 00:34:50,600 for me as a coach too, because it's like all of this is like 675 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:54,199 it's an unfortunate experiment on myself and figuring things 676 00:34:54,199 --> 00:34:56,320 out. But it's, but it's like, these 677 00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,800 are things like my athletes even now, like they feel all the time 678 00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:02,440 and like they don't have access to the things that I have access 679 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:05,280 to. But like all the insights I 680 00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,000 learned can help troubleshoot things maybe faster with them 681 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:13,040 and for athletes in the in the future, because I think this is 682 00:35:13,040 --> 00:35:16,480 kind of a side note, but like, I think so many athletes just 683 00:35:16,720 --> 00:35:19,040 struggle with like they just feel like they don't love the 684 00:35:19,040 --> 00:35:20,840 sport anymore. They feel like they struggling 685 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,600 with motivation or they're like, I'm just like dreading these 686 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:28,280 workouts all the time. And I'm like, yeah, I completely 687 00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:29,680 relate to that. I get it. 688 00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:33,040 And it's like, I want. It's like, OK, well, do you just 689 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:36,280 really just you don't like running anymore because there is 690 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:37,960 a time to just you move on. Yeah. 691 00:35:37,960 --> 00:35:42,720 And like, is it really that or is your body off? 692 00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:46,640 Are there things like, you know, like, obviously like if you're 693 00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,720 sleeping less, if you don't have the right feeling, if your 694 00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:51,960 hormones are a little off, whatever is off, like your 695 00:35:51,960 --> 00:35:54,440 body's going to try to conserve. Like your brain's going to tell 696 00:35:54,440 --> 00:35:57,160 you like, no, don't go hammer a workout. 697 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,440 Like we're trying to conserve all the energy we can. 698 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,280 Like it's going to like try to make and it's not going to 699 00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:04,800 reward you for that. So it's not going to make you 700 00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:06,760 feel good when you go exert energy. 701 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:09,720 It's going to try to like make you feel bad. 702 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:15,040 And so it's like, OK, like this is maybe the answer isn't, maybe 703 00:36:15,040 --> 00:36:17,000 it's not just like you hate running and you need to quit. 704 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,600 Like maybe like something's just going on. 705 00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:21,240 Like let's look at your, your sleep patterns, your eating 706 00:36:21,240 --> 00:36:22,720 patterns. Like are you eating before 707 00:36:22,720 --> 00:36:24,240 practice? Like are you eating after 708 00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,880 practice? Like what are your, maybe you're 709 00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,280 low iron. And then half the time they are 710 00:36:29,280 --> 00:36:32,320 low iron. But like actually, no, almost 711 00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:35,800 everyone that gets tested for iron is low iron because if you 712 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,880 it it anyways, that's a joke of myself. 713 00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,000 And then I think that, you know, it just gives you just more 714 00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:44,600 learning like with all these things that come up and I feel 715 00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:48,840 like again, I don't really, I'd rather not have issues, I guess, 716 00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:52,600 but like it, it's cool. I think when things when you 717 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:56,080 deal with things personally, you're just forced to understand 718 00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,040 it and know something so much more. 719 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:02,480 And so, and then you're just better able to like coach that 720 00:37:02,480 --> 00:37:05,000 and like share those experience and like troubleshoot with 721 00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,600 others in the future. So and it's like I get to work 722 00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:12,160 with like some of the best people you know in the country 723 00:37:12,160 --> 00:37:15,000 just like doing this stuff with so it, it's kind of cool. 724 00:37:15,120 --> 00:37:18,960 Going back to the subject of racing Boston couple consecutive 725 00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:22,560 years that you've stacked of, of of racing there. 726 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,920 Has it changed in the last two years or sort of like in the 727 00:37:24,920 --> 00:37:28,560 intensity at the front of the race where it maybe impacts sort 728 00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,400 of your own sort of race plan? I think back to was it 2 years 729 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:34,880 ago 2024? This is coming off the trials. 730 00:37:34,880 --> 00:37:39,480 You go and race Boston and CC Lemma goes out and just blasts 731 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:43,080 it from from the front. And that's all we see really. 732 00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:46,360 Like on the TV broadcast, you have a separate race that kind 733 00:37:46,360 --> 00:37:50,320 of like pans out. And then last year it was a pack 734 00:37:50,320 --> 00:37:54,200 of East Africans and John career, he makes the big move. 735 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:56,880 Connor and Clayton are the ones who try and cover it. 736 00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,680 Connor sticks with it for a bit, but then John career has, you 737 00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,640 know, the one extra gear over the rest of those guys. 738 00:38:03,640 --> 00:38:07,120 And we kind of don't see as much of what happened behind, you 739 00:38:07,120 --> 00:38:10,240 know, Clayton. And you know, then after that, 740 00:38:10,240 --> 00:38:13,320 it's you and whatever's happening in that sort of 741 00:38:13,320 --> 00:38:16,400 backpack that like, it makes me wonder just sort of like what 742 00:38:16,720 --> 00:38:19,920 how does this change sort of how you approach the races knowing 743 00:38:19,920 --> 00:38:24,200 that there are guys who are want to attack it fast in Boston, 744 00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:26,280 knowing how challenging the course is. 745 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,200 And over the last two years, that's just sort of been the 746 00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:29,720 case. Does it complicate? 747 00:38:29,720 --> 00:38:31,840 I guess like how you have to devise your own race plan? 748 00:38:32,360 --> 00:38:35,240 Well, I think for this year it probably makes it more simple 749 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:38,440 because it's like, I'm just going to find the pack that, you 750 00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,680 know, I should run with. Yeah, I think if you're like, I 751 00:38:40,680 --> 00:38:43,440 think if I was like really, really fit, like it would 752 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:45,280 complicate it. Like let's say I was like 753 00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,640 really, really fit and thought that like maybe I should, I 754 00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,960 should go out for specific for Boston's course, maybe like 755 00:38:52,960 --> 00:38:55,880 6245. Then it's like, well, that, that 756 00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,600 that could be tough because they might go out in 61 flat like the 757 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,160 lead group. And like, even if I was really 758 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,880 fit, that's not I'm not no. And then but but then it's like, 759 00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,120 but if you don't go with that lead pack, that little middle 760 00:39:09,120 --> 00:39:12,240 range, like if again, if you're really fit, you know, somewhere 761 00:39:12,240 --> 00:39:16,240 in the 60 twos, because Boston runs fast the first half or 762 00:39:16,240 --> 00:39:19,480 maybe even 63 low. Like there's just not really 763 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,280 like most people either go with the front pack or it's like a 764 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,800 pretty conservative like 64 ish type pack. 765 00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:29,840 And so like this year, I mean, I think I think people kind of 766 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:33,640 hammer from the front and like, I'm not going to, I mean, I'm 767 00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:35,360 not going to be competing in that group. 768 00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:38,160 So I'm going to find that kind of next main pack and like be 769 00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:40,200 with them. And I think it's fairly simple. 770 00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:43,320 Hopefully like, you know, I get things figured out and it's like 771 00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:46,280 I'm yeah, I'm in that position to where maybe like when I when 772 00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:51,520 we went out with Kip Chogi, that was like we went 6219, which was 773 00:39:51,880 --> 00:39:55,320 too much for me at the time, but I felt good and like I felt like 774 00:39:55,320 --> 00:39:58,520 I could, you know, maybe I would have wanted to go out around 63 775 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,600 flat that day, but. You either went out at 6219, 776 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,960 whatever we were or 64 something was the second pack. 777 00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:10,120 So I think for a lot of those in between people that maybe they 778 00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:14,600 can't realistically really win or be top five, it's like, well, 779 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,680 who do you really run with? Because you don't Boston's 780 00:40:17,080 --> 00:40:20,560 almost always a headwind. So you don't you can't just run. 781 00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:23,600 It's really hard to run just all by yourself, especially 782 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:26,160 navigating like just the constant rollers and what the 783 00:40:26,160 --> 00:40:28,040 headwind is. Like you just, that's a long. 784 00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:31,520 I mean, any marathon's hard to run just the whole thing by 785 00:40:31,520 --> 00:40:34,000 yourself. So yeah, it does just kind of 786 00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:35,600 make it hard. But it's also a course that's 787 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:38,640 like, yeah, you go out faster than your fitness. 788 00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:40,880 The second-half is going to be rough. 789 00:40:40,880 --> 00:40:43,880 So it's. Yeah. 790 00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:49,120 This episode of the City of Smack podcast is presented by 791 00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:51,440 Lollipop, because of course it is. 792 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:54,840 I feel like everywhere I look lately, I'm seeing Lollipop. 793 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:56,720 It's on all of my favorite shows. 794 00:40:56,920 --> 00:40:59,920 I saw it on Traitors when the contestants were sitting around 795 00:40:59,920 --> 00:41:02,840 the mansion trying to decide who to vanish at the roundtable. 796 00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:07,720 It pops up in episodes of Shrinking on Apple TV, and it 797 00:41:07,720 --> 00:41:10,760 even had a moment in The Housemaid starring Sidney 798 00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:12,600 Sweeney. You've seen it all over our 799 00:41:12,600 --> 00:41:15,880 shows now for a couple years. Basically, Lollipop is 800 00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:17,960 everywhere right now and I totally get why. 801 00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:22,360 My current favorite flavor when people ask is tropical punch and 802 00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,880 it tastes like a vacation in a can. 803 00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:28,400 I need that right now with how brutal this East Coast winter 804 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,720 has been. It's got the perfect balance of 805 00:41:30,720 --> 00:41:33,440 pineapple, passionfruit, Mandarin, and apple, so you get 806 00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,920 that nostalgic fruit punch flavor, but way more crisp and 807 00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,040 way more refreshing. And Lollipop isn't just about 808 00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:42,800 great taste. 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We've made it the runner's soda. 828 00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:50,160 It seems like every American is showing up and so like, you'll 829 00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:52,160 have plenty of people to. Choose, yeah, I'm not. 830 00:42:52,160 --> 00:42:54,520 I'm not concerned this year. I think I'm going to, I think 831 00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:56,000 for where I'm at, I'm going to have that. 832 00:42:56,800 --> 00:42:59,160 I'm going to I'm going to find a pack that's plenty fast. 833 00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:02,080 I'm going to be fine. But but yeah, I would say 834 00:43:02,080 --> 00:43:05,760 probably 9 times out of 10 now, I'd say the majority of these 835 00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,520 Boston races on the men's side are going to go out fast. 836 00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:13,120 And it's just going to, yeah, again, those people that aren't 837 00:43:13,760 --> 00:43:18,040 like 2 or 4 type people are going to be like, where do I go? 838 00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,360 I think though, since the American depth has increased so 839 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:24,680 much, I think that that second pack, I think that pack is going 840 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:25,920 to form. So like what I'm saying that 841 00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:30,440 like 6230 to 6330, I think there's going to be a lot more 842 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,320 of those packs than there traditionally has been just 843 00:43:33,320 --> 00:43:35,440 because like the depth, especially in America, is 844 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:37,840 getting so much better so quickly. 845 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,320 And all of those groups of people run Boston. 846 00:43:41,320 --> 00:43:44,800 So yeah, it's changing. But then I think it's just going 847 00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,560 to eventually get back to like it'll be almost like the same 848 00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:50,440 packs you see, just all the packs are just going to be 849 00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:52,400 faster. What number, Boston is this 850 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,240 going to be for you? 6. 851 00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:56,960 Is there anything that you've picked up on, I guess like the 852 00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,960 sixth time that you don't didn't realize or or learn from the the 853 00:44:00,960 --> 00:44:05,400 first five that you're like, OK, going into the now number #6 854 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:09,680 like this is what I'll, what I'll be paying attention to. 855 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,680 I, I, I think I, yeah, I know what to expect with Boston. 856 00:44:13,480 --> 00:44:17,800 I mean, I think like I again, like since training hasn't gone 857 00:44:17,800 --> 00:44:20,920 like super well, but at least I know things that are very 858 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,160 helpful for Boston. Like I think it's a course that 859 00:44:24,160 --> 00:44:27,400 you can run pretty fast on if you have like the right 860 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:31,080 qualities without maybe that like high end fitness. 861 00:44:31,080 --> 00:44:34,920 So like because you can you can you can run really fast on the 862 00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:38,040 downhill sections without tons and tons of fitness. 863 00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,240 Like you can get into a really good rhythm and just kind of 864 00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:43,320 roll, especially that first half and the whole last five miles. 865 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,640 There's that tough kind of Six Mile section in the middle from 866 00:44:46,640 --> 00:44:50,200 like miles 14 to 20. You do have a pretty big 867 00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:55,880 downhill, like 16 I think, but that section set, that section 868 00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,200 is tough. But like you can run really fat. 869 00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:02,480 Like if your legs are just resilient, you don't necessarily 870 00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,160 have to have like the Super high end fitness that you do on a 871 00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:07,720 flat course where you have to like maintain super high power 872 00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:09,680 the whole time. So I'm kind of just trying to 873 00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,240 make sure like, OK, even if I don't get all these workouts in, 874 00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,200 like I'm getting in like the lifting I'm getting, I'm getting 875 00:45:15,200 --> 00:45:17,480 my legs like as fatigue resistant as I can. 876 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:19,880 I'm trying to like Sprint up and down hills. 877 00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:23,760 I'm trying to at least get a few good sessions of those like 878 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:28,040 shortly, you know, within like the last like 5 or 6 weeks of 879 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:31,280 the race to like be able to kind of handle that type of impact 880 00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,800 and pounding. Yeah, I think that that can have 881 00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:36,520 this as big of an effect as like increases in fitness because 882 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,680 like there's been some races where like I've been, I felt 883 00:45:39,680 --> 00:45:43,160 really good like at Boston, but like the last five miles I just, 884 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,480 I just was cramping up. Like things are happening like 885 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,000 my hamstrings. And so I've done some different 886 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:51,000 enhancing exercises that hopefully will prevent that to 887 00:45:51,000 --> 00:45:53,640 where like, OK, even if like I'm running a little bit slower in 888 00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,760 the first part because the fitness isn't quite there. 889 00:45:55,760 --> 00:46:01,560 Like if I still have my legs with me like I can, I, I should 890 00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,640 be able to fitness rise, run at an output to where my legs are 891 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:08,760 have held up that I can run still pretty fast. 892 00:46:08,800 --> 00:46:12,360 And so those are the things that like I'm just like implementing. 893 00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:16,880 It's kind of like doing doing more with less in a way, but but 894 00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,320 having run it so many times and knowing what specific muscles 895 00:46:20,320 --> 00:46:23,920 have cramped or felt fatigued or felt flat to where it very 896 00:46:23,920 --> 00:46:26,720 limited me to where I felt like I couldn't get the most out of 897 00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:28,560 my fitness. I think like those are the 898 00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:32,480 little things that like I'm trying to like use experience 899 00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:36,080 from and maximize. Considering the training block, 900 00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:38,920 how are you targeting? I guess what's going to make a 901 00:46:38,920 --> 00:46:40,840 successful day in Boston for you, you think? 902 00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,120 I think it honestly just enjoying the race, like enjoying 903 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:47,840 the experience, enjoying the race, feeling like I'm able to 904 00:46:47,840 --> 00:46:50,720 race the whole race. Like, like actually like 905 00:46:51,080 --> 00:46:54,160 regardless of what time I'm actually running, Like I'm, I'm, 906 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:58,200 I'm able to just be engaged and racing and racing somebody. 907 00:46:58,200 --> 00:47:00,160 And like, obviously I hope that's on the faster end. 908 00:47:00,160 --> 00:47:05,600 But yeah, I think cuz I think like for long term, I do want to 909 00:47:05,840 --> 00:47:08,640 continue doing this for a while and like figure things out and 910 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:12,800 get better and, and keep doing it and have like a long, long 911 00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,760 career. But you know, it's hard to do 912 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,480 that if it's, if things aren't like you're not enjoying what 913 00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,440 you're doing. And so and like the races that 914 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:24,640 like I've really enjoyed, I've always ran pretty good. 915 00:47:24,720 --> 00:47:27,840 So like Ottawa was a good example. 916 00:47:27,840 --> 00:47:31,040 Wasn't super like, yeah, I didn't necessarily feel like I 917 00:47:31,040 --> 00:47:33,320 was super, super fit for that race, but like that was just 918 00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,800 like a super. It's just a fun weekend. 919 00:47:36,280 --> 00:47:37,880 Their race is cool. This is like fun. 920 00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:40,440 And like I ran like 208 second fastest time of my life. 921 00:47:40,440 --> 00:47:43,920 And I was like kind of felt like I just kind of just went there 922 00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:47,320 and ran like I didn't yeah. Nothing was special about the 923 00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,720 training for or anything for that race. 924 00:47:48,720 --> 00:47:52,120 So yeah. And I think even for like my 925 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,280 athletes that I'm coaching is like, obviously I want everyone 926 00:47:55,280 --> 00:47:58,520 I coach to run super fast. But like when I actually think, 927 00:47:58,720 --> 00:48:01,720 when I really think about their races, like I'm more thinking 928 00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:04,080 about like their experience and like what I want them to 929 00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:08,080 experience when they're racing. And so I feel like that's still 930 00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:10,040 kind of has to be like the same for me too. 931 00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,880 It's like I just, I think cuz when I have those experiences 932 00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:16,840 that are good and like when I know what running can be, it's 933 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,360 like the times and the places like they kind of take care of 934 00:48:19,360 --> 00:48:22,440 themselves, especially cuz like I'm, I'm competitive. 935 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,880 So like I don't have to force competition or like focus out of 936 00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,080 me. Like, I mean, that's just what I 937 00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:29,760 love naturally. So yeah. 938 00:48:30,160 --> 00:48:34,280 The way professional runners frame out their lives from a 939 00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,480 Olympic cycle standpoint, once they know sort of like this is 940 00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:40,000 when the trials are going to be, here's where that's going to be. 941 00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:43,200 It's sort of like reverse kind of engineer, just sort of like, 942 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:46,560 all right, I guess I'll plan to do, you know, Chicago or this 943 00:48:46,560 --> 00:48:49,760 fall marathon before that and, you know, working their way 944 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,640 backwards from 2028. When I look at just sort of like 945 00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:56,160 the course of, you know, your 2024, your 2025, like a lot of 946 00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:01,600 marathons, does 20262027 look a little bit different in the lead 947 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:04,920 up you think to the 28 trials in March? 948 00:49:05,640 --> 00:49:08,120 I'm not sure yet. I think we'll, I think I'll kind 949 00:49:08,120 --> 00:49:11,360 of figure out how. Like you're not going into the 950 00:49:11,360 --> 00:49:14,120 28 Trials with 40 marathons on your legs, are you? 951 00:49:15,560 --> 00:49:18,040 Probably not, no, because you're at 30 now, So that would be. 952 00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:20,840 Ten, yeah, no, I don't know. I don't even I I don't actually 953 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,400 like count the number that I've done. 954 00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:25,720 So I don't, I think it's, it's I'm pretty sure it's around 30 955 00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,440 ish, but I don't know what it actually is. 956 00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:30,520 Yeah. I mean, I'm not, I'm quite like 957 00:49:30,520 --> 00:49:33,080 I'm not gonna have race like like this is the only spring 958 00:49:33,080 --> 00:49:34,720 marathon I'm doing. So I'm not gonna have. 959 00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:37,120 To fall Ottawa this year. Yeah, we're, we're going to 960 00:49:37,120 --> 00:49:38,720 Hawaii that weekend. Might cool it. 961 00:49:39,520 --> 00:49:41,280 Yeah. So, yeah, I'm definitely not 962 00:49:41,280 --> 00:49:43,080 gonna have five this year. I'm not gonna run four. 963 00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,320 Well, I say that, but I'm probably I'm most likely not 964 00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,440 gonna run four in the fall. Yeah, I, I don't really know. 965 00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,040 I feel like I can't really plan that far ahead. 966 00:49:54,320 --> 00:49:58,520 I know what like I need to do to like be faster. 967 00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:02,160 I think racing like doing different types of races can 968 00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,920 help with that, But I also don't necessarily feel like I need to 969 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:09,520 like run this half marathon or this 10K so I can do it's like, 970 00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:11,880 well, I know like the training that I need to do. 971 00:50:11,880 --> 00:50:14,640 It's like I literally just like can't do it right now. 972 00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:19,480 Like that sounds dumb, but like, I, that's what it feels like. 973 00:50:19,480 --> 00:50:22,520 Like trying to do the workouts that I want to do that I feel 974 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,560 like would get me to where I want to be, like, like a 975 00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,160 literally go out and try to do them. 976 00:50:27,160 --> 00:50:30,720 And I just like, I can't. So I don't know what 2026 or 27 977 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,000 will look like. I think it'll look fairly 978 00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,480 similar to how my years have looked. 979 00:50:34,480 --> 00:50:39,640 But I think, yeah, I would like to see differences in training. 980 00:50:40,200 --> 00:50:41,440 Yeah. My body just has to be in a 981 00:50:41,440 --> 00:50:43,720 place where I'm going to like adapt well from that training 982 00:50:43,720 --> 00:50:48,120 and and feel good doing it. I guess we're still even waiting 983 00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,680 on like what the standard is gonna be like to know how many 984 00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,560 guys we can even send at the trials. 985 00:50:52,920 --> 00:50:55,320 I I think we're I'm not concerned at all. 986 00:50:55,400 --> 00:50:58,040 We're gonna have world rankings like we're gonna even if they 987 00:50:58,040 --> 00:51:00,840 don't do the three. I'm not concerned about that. 988 00:51:01,520 --> 00:51:03,440 OK, I think we'll be no. Lenny career. 989 00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:07,760 No, last year, I mean, it was to be OK, to be fair, it was way 990 00:51:07,760 --> 00:51:11,280 closer in 2024 than I thought it would be. 991 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:17,240 So I guess yeah, yeah, I, I've, I honestly didn't anticipate 992 00:51:17,240 --> 00:51:20,080 that we were gonna have be concerned and and we were and I 993 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:20,560 was wrong. Yeah. 994 00:51:21,600 --> 00:51:23,800 But just looking at the trajectory, I don't. 995 00:51:25,240 --> 00:51:27,480 I just can't imagine that happening in 2028. 996 00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:28,960 Let's hope not. Yeah. 997 00:51:29,240 --> 00:51:31,640 So it's down to Phoenix and Saint Louis for. 998 00:51:31,680 --> 00:51:34,200 Well, I mean, I'm if it's, I hope it's in Phoenix. 999 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:36,320 I'm not even gonna. I think, yeah, 'cause I did. 1000 00:51:36,360 --> 00:51:38,240 I just pulled up like the Phoenix weather the other day 1001 00:51:38,240 --> 00:51:41,120 and like there was a day where it was like really, really hot. 1002 00:51:41,120 --> 00:51:43,520 And I was like, that's what? That's your kind of race. 1003 00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:47,240 Well, Phoenix, Phoenix is never hot because it's like if it's 1004 00:51:47,240 --> 00:51:49,960 hot in the spring, there's like 5% humidity. 1005 00:51:50,360 --> 00:51:54,120 So it's never actually like hot. It just it feels good all the 1006 00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:55,360 time. I I just pulled it up. 1007 00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,040 Phoenix is 98° right now. Yeah, but 80. 1008 00:51:58,040 --> 00:51:59,960 But you're not going to run it at 3:00 PM. 1009 00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:05,040 If you go to Phoenix and it's 70° in the morning, you're like, 1010 00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:07,520 this is this is unbelievable. This is so nice. 1011 00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:11,960 Like it's, it's just different. I don't know how to, I mean, I 1012 00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:15,360 lived there and it's similar to Fresno, but it's, it won't be 1013 00:52:15,360 --> 00:52:17,600 too hot. And like people know how to heat 1014 00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:18,240 train. It's not. 1015 00:52:19,000 --> 00:52:22,760 The funny thing about American races is like if it's in 1016 00:52:22,760 --> 00:52:26,440 America, people like have this weird mindset. 1017 00:52:26,440 --> 00:52:30,920 Like you know how unbelievably worse Tokyo was compared to the 1018 00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:34,120 2024 trials? And there was so many people 1019 00:52:34,120 --> 00:52:36,240 crying about the start time and all that stuff. 1020 00:52:36,240 --> 00:52:37,760 Or. It wasn't even remote like the 1021 00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,000 20. Yeah, they were like, I mean, 1022 00:52:41,040 --> 00:52:44,360 yeah, it was just, but like, but preparing for like Tokyo, like, 1023 00:52:45,280 --> 00:52:47,440 I mean, I mean, I guess we talked about the heat and we 1024 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:49,800 talked about the conditions a bit, but like nothing compared 1025 00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,360 to what we talked about in Orlando. 1026 00:52:51,880 --> 00:52:54,880 And like, I mean, there was so much worse in Tokyo. 1027 00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,200 Like way hot. I mean, it was like 10 something 1028 00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:00,920 degrees hotter, but like the humidity was way higher. 1029 00:53:01,200 --> 00:53:02,560 Yeah. It was just, it's just funny, 1030 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:03,600 like. No, I don't. 1031 00:53:03,600 --> 00:53:05,360 I I get what you're saying because I I think like the 1032 00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:07,640 solution just sort of just runs slower, right? 1033 00:53:08,840 --> 00:53:11,760 Yeah, you just adjust your pacing a little bit and yeah, 1034 00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,800 and you train. I mean, so the humidity is hard 1035 00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:17,280 to train for Phoenix. No one's going to have an issue. 1036 00:53:17,800 --> 00:53:21,920 So hopefully they, if anyone's, no one will have 0 unless you 1037 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,720 just don't know how to train. But because you, every person 1038 00:53:24,720 --> 00:53:26,560 can sweat better, like you can adapt. 1039 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:29,360 The humidity is very difficult because your body temperature is 1040 00:53:29,360 --> 00:53:32,840 going to rise. You can only evaporate so much 1041 00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:35,720 sweat when it's humid. It's like you're going to be 1042 00:53:35,720 --> 00:53:39,120 limited no matter what. But like the, if it's dry, like 1043 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:42,000 you can, I mean, there are, there's still limits to your 1044 00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:45,560 adaptation obviously, but like you can just cool so well. 1045 00:53:45,560 --> 00:53:49,000 And like you don't even have to do that much like 3 weeks and 1046 00:53:49,000 --> 00:53:51,960 you're probably good. And like you're going to, it's 1047 00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,920 going to be plenty dry enough. There's going to be water. 1048 00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:56,880 They're going to freak out. There's going to be water every 1049 00:53:56,880 --> 00:53:58,760 mile. So like you're going to be, 1050 00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:00,680 everyone's going to be cool. Everyone's going to be like, oh 1051 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:03,160 man, we ran. We all ran super fast. 1052 00:54:03,920 --> 00:54:06,880 So you're you're firmly in. The I'm firmly if I would love 1053 00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:08,120 it. To be fair, I'd love it to be 1054 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,640 Phoenix. Yeah, Saint Louis. 1055 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:12,560 I'm not a I'll. I'll figure out how to be 1056 00:54:12,560 --> 00:54:16,320 excited for Saint Louis if it's there, but until then I'm 1057 00:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,840 rooting for Phoenix 100%. There we go. 1058 00:54:18,840 --> 00:54:21,800 I think the USATF teams are like on their site visits. 1059 00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:24,120 I think either they're happening or they just happen but. 1060 00:54:25,120 --> 00:54:28,240 I I hope, I hope terrible things happen to them in Saint Louis. 1061 00:54:30,000 --> 00:54:32,800 I'm sure the Saint Louis people are great, but yeah. 1062 00:54:34,600 --> 00:54:36,520 All right, final thing I wanted to touch on with you, and we're 1063 00:54:36,520 --> 00:54:40,520 going to take a wild sidebar. Survivor Survivor 50s happened. 1064 00:54:40,520 --> 00:54:43,000 Oh yeah. I didn't watch last night so I'm 1065 00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,960 an episode behind, but what do you think is playing a good game 1066 00:54:45,960 --> 00:54:48,360 right now? I feel like that's hard to tell, 1067 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,280 but like you got to just get to the merge first because like 1068 00:54:51,480 --> 00:54:54,360 when one there's like different, it doesn't matter. 1069 00:54:54,360 --> 00:54:56,440 Like it doesn't. There is no playing a good game 1070 00:54:56,600 --> 00:54:59,400 because once you get to every time they do a tribe swap or a 1071 00:54:59,400 --> 00:55:01,920 merge, it doesn't matter. Everything restarts. 1072 00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,640 You might have a relationship that you bring with you like one 1073 00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,000 or two people, but it just doesn't matter. 1074 00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:11,840 Like the game changes so fast. So yeah, I I think it just 1075 00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:14,320 doesn't matter right now, but. I, I, I don't know if anything 1076 00:55:14,320 --> 00:55:16,120 happened in the, in the last episode, but how do you feel 1077 00:55:16,120 --> 00:55:18,880 about Charlie? He's a Harvard track guy. 1078 00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:22,280 I I think, you know, he got robbed in his season. 1079 00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:23,760 Yeah. Well, yeah. 1080 00:55:23,760 --> 00:55:26,440 And he kind of keeps bringing that up about like Rizzo saying 1081 00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,920 I think he's doing a little bit of that for the for the show. 1082 00:55:29,920 --> 00:55:31,800 I don't know if he's actually that upset about it. 1083 00:55:32,080 --> 00:55:33,160 That's what I was telling my wife. 1084 00:55:33,160 --> 00:55:35,560 I was like, he's just doing this for, you know, everyone's trying 1085 00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:37,480 to get their confessional time. Like on air. 1086 00:55:38,520 --> 00:55:41,000 I'm kind of joking about, I don't know, maybe he was really 1087 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:43,720 upset, but. Do you look for a specific era 1088 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,280 of Survivor? I don't know. 1089 00:55:47,280 --> 00:55:50,160 I feel like you play initially, I feel like initially everyone, 1090 00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:52,800 like most people are going to be drawn to the people they just 1091 00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:55,080 watched. But but then you as the game 1092 00:55:55,080 --> 00:55:57,720 goes on, you're like you remember kind of like the how 1093 00:55:57,720 --> 00:55:59,920 the other like older eras played. 1094 00:55:59,920 --> 00:56:02,680 And then like you just start to like people as it goes on. 1095 00:56:04,360 --> 00:56:08,080 Yeah, I feel like I'm not specifically rooting for anybody 1096 00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:13,000 right now, like to win. Yeah, there's just so many. 1097 00:56:13,000 --> 00:56:14,440 I feel like. I feel like for me, yeah, it 1098 00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:15,800 doesn't really start until merge. 1099 00:56:15,800 --> 00:56:20,280 Then I'm like, OK, well then you kind of see it, just it's all 1100 00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:23,200 different. The nostalgia of Survivor 50 has 1101 00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,760 been great though. Like I I thought the first 3 1102 00:56:25,760 --> 00:56:29,160 episodes it might have been were were were great and then they 1103 00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:32,920 lost me a little bit on the the Zac Brown episode and I need to 1104 00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:37,320 catch up on on on last night's. But so far, I mean, I thought 1105 00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:39,240 it's been a good season. Yeah, it's been. 1106 00:56:39,240 --> 00:56:41,560 Yeah, I think it. I think it's been good. 1107 00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,160 Yeah. Yesterday's episode was good, 1108 00:56:45,560 --> 00:56:46,800 OK. So I need. 1109 00:56:46,800 --> 00:56:49,960 To catch up, Yeah. So I obviously won't can't see 1110 00:56:49,960 --> 00:56:52,800 anything, but yeah, I think that it's been good. 1111 00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:55,880 And I think like once they I think the rest of the season 1112 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,960 will be good. I just like, I just like the. 1113 00:56:57,960 --> 00:56:59,120 I don't know. I feel like I don't. 1114 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,800 I'm always like half into it until they get to merge and then 1115 00:57:01,800 --> 00:57:03,800 it's like all right now the full game's there. 1116 00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,920 I don't know if we've done Survivor talk before on on the 1117 00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,400 podcast, but would you ever go on the show? 1118 00:57:09,960 --> 00:57:12,000 Yeah, but I've never actually applied. 1119 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,480 So like, I can't because I haven't, you know, Jeff tells 1120 00:57:14,480 --> 00:57:15,960 you every week. Come on, apply. 1121 00:57:15,960 --> 00:57:20,920 To be honest, I actually had a dream about Jeff saying to apply 1122 00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,960 to be on Survivor. I don't know. 1123 00:57:23,960 --> 00:57:25,720 I've just never gotten around to it, I guess. 1124 00:57:25,800 --> 00:57:27,240 I think I, you know, I think it is. 1125 00:57:27,240 --> 00:57:28,560 I think you have to make a video. 1126 00:57:29,040 --> 00:57:32,120 And like, I'm just like, for whatever reason, that barrier 1127 00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:35,200 seems so high to me of like making a video. 1128 00:57:35,200 --> 00:57:37,760 Like I don't know how to make a video. 1129 00:57:38,920 --> 00:57:40,520 No, I think for me it's the same exact thing. 1130 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:44,720 Like I've wanted to go on the show and I feel like I would do 1131 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:47,800 well. I don't necessarily believe I 1132 00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,600 would win. I think my goal would be make 1133 00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:51,600 the jury. Yeah, same exact thing. 1134 00:57:51,600 --> 00:57:52,960 Sort of. I filled out the application, 1135 00:57:52,960 --> 00:57:55,400 I've looked at it, and then when it says click here to upload 1136 00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:56,680 your video, that's always what gets me. 1137 00:57:56,680 --> 00:57:58,200 I'm like. Yeah, I guess I could. 1138 00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:02,440 Yeah, that's I've looked at it. But I'm like that, the video, I 1139 00:58:02,440 --> 00:58:04,920 don't know. I can barely do that, Yeah. 1140 00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,480 If we're in Boston and you and we're at the Hyperion house and 1141 00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:12,080 we sit you down just for the 2 minutes and we shot your video 1142 00:58:12,080 --> 00:58:13,680 for you, would you submit for Survivor? 1143 00:58:14,080 --> 00:58:18,080 Yeah, I think so maybe that that could be a good that could be a 1144 00:58:18,200 --> 00:58:21,000 thing we should we should talk about it with for the hyper 1145 00:58:21,000 --> 00:58:22,920 house. Yeah, at the Hyperion House, 1146 00:58:22,920 --> 00:58:24,560 we'll film your Survivor audition. 1147 00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:25,640 Tape. Yeah, and then we'll and then 1148 00:58:25,640 --> 00:58:27,560 we'll film yours too. Yeah, all right. 1149 00:58:27,640 --> 00:58:28,520 Yeah. And then it'll be easy. 1150 00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:30,040 We have no issues to. Go on. 1151 00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:33,360 And then we had to just delete our digital footprints that the 1152 00:58:33,360 --> 00:58:35,240 casting doesn't know that we actually know each other, 1153 00:58:35,240 --> 00:58:38,040 although it's too easy to figure out that they would never let 1154 00:58:38,040 --> 00:58:39,600 that. Well, yeah, I'm sure they'd go, 1155 00:58:39,600 --> 00:58:42,200 yeah, could go on different seasons, but yeah. 1156 00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,400 Well anyway, CJI, appreciate you taking the time for this. 1157 00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,640 Looking forward to seeing you out in Boston and best of luck 1158 00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:50,880 with the last couple weeks of training. 1159 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:52,880 Yeah, it was great talking with you. 1160 00:58:52,880 --> 00:58:54,160 And yeah, I'll see you in a few weeks. 1161 00:58:56,280 --> 00:58:57,960 All right, that's a wrap on today's episode. 1162 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,960 Thanks for listening, for the time, the curiosity, and for 1163 00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:03,680 making this show part of your routine or your run. 1164 00:59:04,360 --> 00:59:07,000 Big thanks to our producer Jasmine Fair, and to everyone 1165 00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:10,040 behind the scenes who helps make the Sidious Mag Podcast happen. 1166 00:59:10,400 --> 00:59:12,480 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 1167 00:59:12,480 --> 00:59:16,360 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 1168 00:59:16,360 --> 00:59:18,240 read every single one. You can find 1169 00:59:18,240 --> 00:59:22,080 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 1170 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:23,640 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 1171 00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:25,960 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.