1 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,880 All right, all right, all right. It is December 17th. 2 00:00:08,920 --> 00:00:11,360 I'm Chris Chavez. I'm Preet Mckethia. 3 00:00:12,040 --> 00:00:15,240 And I'm Mac fleet. Yeah, Mac, it's been a while, I 4 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,040 guess since you've been on the show. 5 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:21,920 Brought you on because you and I just spent some fun days in 6 00:00:21,920 --> 00:00:26,600 Hawaii for the Mary Mile and the Honolulu Marathon. 7 00:00:26,600 --> 00:00:30,760 So we will be talking about that we were on island time, which 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:38,120 was a time zone that I was just not used to to be back five 9 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,640 hours of everyone else on the East Coast. 10 00:00:41,760 --> 00:00:43,600 Welcome to my. World, Chris, I'm always back. 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,800 Five hours of you. Yeah, well, it's just so 12 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:50,080 interesting to wake up and people are halfway through their 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,920 day or on the other side of things. 14 00:00:53,280 --> 00:00:58,120 Once it rolls around to be like 5:00 PM, no one texts you at all 15 00:00:58,120 --> 00:00:59,840 because everyone's, like, asleep. 16 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,760 I guess, Mac, that's sort of what it's like for you when 17 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,040 we're on the East Coast, right? Yeah, but I mean, I, I live on 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,920 East Coast time because that's just how everything operates. 19 00:01:09,920 --> 00:01:12,800 So yeah, I guess it was kind of nice though, being in the late 20 00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,320 afternoon in Honolulu and just having your phone be dead. 21 00:01:16,640 --> 00:01:19,920 It was pretty fantastic. Yeah, Preet, What? 22 00:01:19,920 --> 00:01:24,920 What did we miss in in the news? Well, I think the big news that 23 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,920 that came out this week and it admittedly wasn't entirely 24 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:33,200 unexpected was that Grand Slam track filed for bankruptcy. 25 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,160 Now this was Chapter 11 bankruptcy. 26 00:01:36,960 --> 00:01:39,360 So that doesn't mean for those people that aren't aren't 27 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:42,480 familiar with US bankruptcy process, it doesn't mean that 28 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,680 Grand Slam track is closing down and liquidating all its assets 29 00:01:46,680 --> 00:01:48,360 and and disappearing off into sunset. 30 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,960 It is a former bankruptcy that's quite commonly used with by US 31 00:01:53,960 --> 00:01:58,240 businesses to enable them to restructure their debts and 32 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:02,520 hopefully emerge as an operational business. 33 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:07,920 And I suppose the biggest thing about this is that it is a court 34 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:09,680 process. So you, you apply to a 35 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:14,520 bankruptcy court you and then under the supervision of the 36 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,560 court, you do the, the, the restructuring of, of your debts 37 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:24,200 and, and assets as required. And I think the thing that that 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,760 sort of follows from that is we obviously had the previous offer 39 00:02:27,760 --> 00:02:31,680 that we became aware of that 50%, you know, they'd offered 40 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:37,200 50% of the, the amount that was owed to all, all the creditors, 41 00:02:37,880 --> 00:02:40,320 that's athletes, that's other suppliers. 42 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:44,360 They made that offer. And that was needed unanimous 43 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:48,320 consent of the creditors prior to this bankruptcy procedure. 44 00:02:48,520 --> 00:02:51,400 That obviously didn't pan out. I guess all the the creditors 45 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:53,400 didn't consent. And we knew that World Athletics 46 00:02:53,400 --> 00:02:54,720 were objecting to it, for example. 47 00:02:56,200 --> 00:03:03,520 And, and so now we're in this court process and potentially 48 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:07,360 that means that, you know, the court, like if there's something 49 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,680 that that is reasonable, the court could potentially force 50 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,760 aspects of it through if a certain proportion of the 51 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,080 creditors approved. There's various different kind 52 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:20,920 of ways that could work, but we'll have to see if anything 53 00:03:20,920 --> 00:03:25,920 does come of that. But the other aspect is that it 54 00:03:25,920 --> 00:03:31,800 became public in terms of the court filings, what are the 55 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:38,360 remaining assets of Grand Slam Track and what are the remaining 56 00:03:38,640 --> 00:03:42,520 liabilities. And so the public bankruptcy 57 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:46,200 filing initially said it had less than $50,000 in assets. 58 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,960 I think that got increased to somewhere between 100,000 and a 59 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,000 million I think in a secondary filing. 60 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,880 And then it has over $10 million, somewhere between 10 61 00:03:55,880 --> 00:04:02,280 million and 50 million dollars in liabilities and between 200 62 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,040 and 999 creditors. So that means there's over 200 63 00:04:06,280 --> 00:04:10,400 different people or businesses that are owed money by Grand 64 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:15,560 Slam Track. So that that's where we are. 65 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:20,360 The other part of this is it obviously with the top 20 66 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:25,280 creditors that were made public in this filing, which included a 67 00:04:25,280 --> 00:04:28,600 number of businesses. It included seven of the 68 00:04:28,600 --> 00:04:33,360 athletes and it also included silliest Mag. 69 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:44,480 So the biggest creditor was the broadcast partner, which is the 70 00:04:45,160 --> 00:04:50,160 Carl Hughes Productions from New York who did all the sort of the 71 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:53,000 actual camera work and and broadcasting work. 72 00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,320 There were a couple of other big vendors, the technology partner 73 00:04:57,320 --> 00:05:01,320 of the league and also the sort of broadcast graphic partner of 74 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,320 the league. And then also I think Tata 75 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,160 Communications, you may have done some of this sort of 76 00:05:06,160 --> 00:05:08,040 satellite kind of bit of the broadcasting. 77 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:12,600 So a lot of money clearly went or was intended to go towards 78 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:17,560 towards the broadcast. But also obviously Sidious is 79 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:28,840 owed $272,915.00. So Chris Mack, obviously Sidious 80 00:05:28,840 --> 00:05:33,320 hasn't received any of this money, but I think people 81 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,480 obviously having seen this, people have been asking 82 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:37,880 questions. So maybe you can tell us a 83 00:05:37,880 --> 00:05:41,320 little bit more about the partnership that Sidious had 84 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:46,640 with Grand Slam Track. What was the plan and kind of 85 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:51,880 obviously why you know why this fee was we were trying to charge 86 00:05:51,880 --> 00:05:53,760 this fee. Yeah. 87 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:58,720 So I guess to give a brief sort of timeline of things, 88 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:05,920 obviously, I guess like we've been attuned to the league since 89 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,520 the very beginning. Kyle had even asked me just sort 90 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:15,120 of for permission when he was interviewing for the job that 91 00:06:15,520 --> 00:06:19,960 opened up before he took it. So, you know, we were aware that 92 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:24,880 something was in the works. Eventually he took the job, left 93 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:29,160 Sidious, and he's still a super close friend of ours. 94 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:35,320 But then I guess from there we were working towards just sort 95 00:06:35,320 --> 00:06:39,840 of like what would be a cool way to partner with this new 96 00:06:39,840 --> 00:06:43,360 professional track league, especially because we were 97 00:06:43,360 --> 00:06:47,160 excited about the prospects of something new and different. 98 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,920 In a way. I think we wanted to model it 99 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:57,160 after the partnerships that we had seen from John Boy Media and 100 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,200 the Yes Network a couple years back and then John Boy with the 101 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:04,080 MLB eventually. Then after that it was I saw, I 102 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,520 remember seeing the Men in Blazers partnership with the 103 00:07:07,520 --> 00:07:09,520 NWSL. And I always kept thinking, it's 104 00:07:09,520 --> 00:07:11,560 like, all right, well, where would be an opportunity to do 105 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:14,520 something like this with track? And it finally was like starting 106 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:20,200 to come about because if anyone is attuned to the inside 107 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:22,720 baseball of just sort of broadcast rights and 108 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:29,640 restrictions, like it's tough in track to do things with footage 109 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,920 of races when you know, things are, you know, very tightly 110 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:38,040 kept, you know, NBC with the trials and the Olympics. 111 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,080 So anything around that is always one very, very expensive 112 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:46,960 for a smaller start up like ourselves to be able to afford 113 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,840 footage like that. And when we started talking to 114 00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:55,920 Grand Slam, it would be, I think it's centered around, hey, we 115 00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:58,800 would finally be able to have the ability to do stuff like 116 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:04,120 that, ideas that we had in mind with broadcast footage and with 117 00:08:04,680 --> 00:08:09,520 athletes and the events. So part of it was OK, like we 118 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:11,840 finally may get that flexibility, that creative 119 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:15,600 freedom to do a bit more than what we usually do at all of 120 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:20,080 these other different needs. So we viewed it as like a new 121 00:08:20,080 --> 00:08:22,320 sandbox that we could play in and build. 122 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,160 And the marketing team at Grand Slam was all for it. 123 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,360 They were pretty, they were aware of just sort of like the 124 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,080 digital footprint that we have across our social media 125 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:41,159 channels, our podcasts, newsletters, website, YouTube. 126 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:47,720 It's not like we've got a million subscribers on YouTube 127 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:51,280 or anything like that, but we do have is like a very targeted, 128 00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,280 dedicated track and field audience. 129 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,960 And so when you're starting from zero, that would make sense to 130 00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:01,960 to tap. And so we came to an agreement 131 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,640 that like, hey, like we can help get this league off of the 132 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,360 ground and part of that. But when we were going to be 133 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:12,000 working towards an official contract, these things don't 134 00:09:12,000 --> 00:09:17,720 just happen super quick. And so in 2024, a lot of those 135 00:09:17,960 --> 00:09:21,840 racer announcements and things like that were all being done 136 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:24,680 before we finally hashed out just sort of what the full 137 00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:29,040 breadth of the contract would would be for 2025 in the first 138 00:09:29,040 --> 00:09:32,480 season. I mean, back, I think you 139 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:38,560 produced the live stream of, of the league launch in, in LA, 140 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:39,520 right? Like that. 141 00:09:39,560 --> 00:09:42,320 It's literally from, from day one. 142 00:09:42,400 --> 00:09:48,160 And so that was so then and from there, like as it took many 143 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:53,360 months to work on what the the the partnership would encompass. 144 00:09:54,120 --> 00:10:01,560 You know, we have this archive of photographs, videos that we 145 00:10:01,560 --> 00:10:07,320 could tap for any of their needs, licensing footage. 146 00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,320 I think we shot a couple things that ended up on their 147 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:15,040 broadcast. Those things like also can be 148 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,920 very expensive if you get an outside agency to go off to a 149 00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:23,320 certain place and film things like people can charge a lot for 150 00:10:23,320 --> 00:10:26,520 that, at least like we've learned from other people. 151 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:31,000 But you know, sort of we would bake this into our greater deal 152 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:37,600 in addition to just, you know, the big, big stuff happening on 153 00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:42,680 social, on site, we'd be doing shows that, you know, kind of 154 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:45,800 our shoulder programming to the main broadcast. 155 00:10:46,280 --> 00:10:50,640 So that would be, you know, our pre show, post show athlete 156 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:56,000 interviews, like basically there would be all these pulses taking 157 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,240 place throughout the year to remind you, I guess that you 158 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,880 know, the either there was another event coming up or, you 159 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,840 know, these athletes are being signed. 160 00:11:03,840 --> 00:11:10,480 And so they definitely wanted to remain kind of in people's minds 161 00:11:10,480 --> 00:11:12,880 that this is something new and and taking place. 162 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:17,040 So, yeah, I mean there was just a lot that that we did and we 163 00:11:17,040 --> 00:11:22,840 fielded a whole team to each one of the slams in between that 164 00:11:22,840 --> 00:11:27,840 just sort of like contracting people to produce some of the 165 00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:33,080 stuff, you know, videos, editors, you know, all that kind 166 00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:34,000 of stuff. It adds up. 167 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:40,000 So, you know, we had to extend just beyond our team to get some 168 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:43,920 of that stuff done. So, yeah, I mean, it was a very 169 00:11:43,920 --> 00:11:47,800 wide-ranging partnership. And yeah, I guess like when 170 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:51,000 people were also curious of like, oh, does that number 171 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:55,600 include my broadcast contract because I was brought into the 172 00:11:55,600 --> 00:12:01,320 broadcast for Miami and Philly? No, that was handled separately. 173 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,880 So we work directly with their marketing team. 174 00:12:03,920 --> 00:12:07,640 And then I was referred, I think to like their broadcast team 175 00:12:07,640 --> 00:12:10,960 separately for that. And to this day, I've only 176 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:13,680 received 50% of my broadcast payment. 177 00:12:13,680 --> 00:12:16,440 I talked to a couple of the other broadcasters and I think 178 00:12:16,440 --> 00:12:19,360 that also seems to be the case with them. 179 00:12:20,880 --> 00:12:24,320 I feel for Car Hughes, the number one person on that list, 180 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:28,080 mainly because they're owed, you know what it was a $3,000,000. 181 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:33,800 And like their expenses are even greater because you got to think 182 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:37,920 about just all of the equipment to haul around from, you know, 183 00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:43,840 to all of these different slams, the, the, the personnel hired to 184 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:48,800 man all of those cameras. And so I could see why the, you 185 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:51,320 know, even they could make the case of just being one of the 186 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,400 creditors who's like, no, we can't take 50% because we'd be 187 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:59,000 out so much more. So, yeah, I mean, like there's, 188 00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:04,960 there's a lot of people owed money and it made me even more 189 00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,600 sympathetic towards, you know, the athletes and how much they 190 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,120 were owed throughout this whole entire thing. 191 00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,720 We were trying to sort through a lot of this, you know, 192 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:14,280 privately. And I would check in 193 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:15,920 occasionally be like, is there any update? 194 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,120 Any update? There'd be no update. 195 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:24,200 And yeah, so then I think, I think that brings us to, to sort 196 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,440 of like, yeah, then this, you know, finally got out. 197 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:31,360 Mac, do you have anything to add sort of like what the initial 198 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,920 partnership covered? I mean, yeah, there's just, 199 00:13:34,920 --> 00:13:38,720 there's a lot of stuff beyond just like an Instagram post with 200 00:13:38,720 --> 00:13:43,360 APNG logo on it that our relationship kind of 201 00:13:43,360 --> 00:13:45,120 encompassed. There's a lot of stuff that was 202 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,400 shot, both video and photo, that's used not just on our 203 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:53,520 channels, but other channels that we dealt with throughout, 204 00:13:53,720 --> 00:13:56,960 you know, those 18 months. And it's just, it was a lot of 205 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,880 work, but it, it was really exciting and we were really 206 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:06,960 proud of the partnership. Like we we were excited that 207 00:14:06,960 --> 00:14:10,360 there was this prospect of a new league that was going to be kind 208 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:14,640 of US centric. And it was an opportunity for us 209 00:14:15,320 --> 00:14:17,240 to maybe have a little bit of influence. 210 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,160 I mean, we talking to this mics and we and like, I'll say it 211 00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:25,200 like I've complained about how the the sport functions forever 212 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:30,200 and this was an opportunity to maybe inject some ideas long 213 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:35,120 term into maybe how I thought, you know, just a my little slice 214 00:14:35,720 --> 00:14:39,440 of how things could maybe go. And so we as a, as a, as a 215 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,200 company, we're excited at, at the opportunity to use kind of 216 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,000 our, I don't know, our leverage or, or just our standing and 217 00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:54,160 kind of like the US audience, you know, to, to do something 218 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,800 cool. It had been mentioned previously 219 00:14:56,800 --> 00:15:00,200 that we, that we, that we were partnered with in, you know, a 220 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:04,240 website writing in, in podcasts with Michael, like we had talked 221 00:15:04,240 --> 00:15:08,000 about the partnership and it, and it, it's, yeah, the scope 222 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:12,800 was certainly greater than our other things that we do, but not 223 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,360 any different than a lot of our other partnerships that we that 224 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:20,160 we've had throughout the years. And I would, I would love if 225 00:15:20,160 --> 00:15:26,560 everyone could maybe pause right now and go back to a 2023 June 226 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:32,720 11th podcast that Chris Kyle and I did that it feels like time is 227 00:15:32,720 --> 00:15:34,480 a flat circle here. Yeah, I have. 228 00:15:34,680 --> 00:15:37,240 I, I have that one queued up too here. 229 00:15:37,240 --> 00:15:41,600 So now I now ironically here, which we will say is the 230 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:46,760 messenger in this one is Kyle, who when we were doing this, he 231 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,440 was with Sidious. He's still, you know, a very 232 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,800 minority share owner of the whole thing. 233 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,000 It's me, Mac and Kyle who owns Sidious. 234 00:15:55,360 --> 00:15:58,480 But this was, I mean, like we've this, I feel like it's something 235 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:01,720 that we say constantly about just sort of like how we 236 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:03,680 operate. So keep and bear in mind that 237 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:05,560 it's Kyle who's delivering the message. 238 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,040 But it's it's whole true. It's held true this whole entire 239 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:11,400 time. I guess you're calling us an 240 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,000 Internet company and something that we've largely struggled 241 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,880 with at times is defining what we are because I think often 242 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,320 times we are misclassified as journalists. 243 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,960 And that always kind of bothers me a little because I'm 244 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,080 definitely not a journalist. I'm definitely not a big jade 245 00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:29,520 journalism. And I think it gets misconstrued 246 00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:32,760 because a lot of things that we do, especially around breaking 247 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:37,000 news or writing some stories, you know, have aspects of it 248 00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:42,360 that resemble journalism. We are fully a media company, 249 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,920 right? Like I, I say that a lot of 250 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:49,400 things that we do are marketing and PR and whether that's for 251 00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:54,480 partners that we're working with or the sport as a whole, we're 252 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,160 not journalists. Yeah, sorry, no, I don't like 253 00:16:58,160 --> 00:17:01,600 for me, that's what I studied in in college and what I spent 6 254 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:03,720 1/2 years doing at Sports Illustrated. 255 00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:09,240 But I think knowing when I decided to make this change that 256 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:13,800 it was going to be leaving that, you know, capital J journalist 257 00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:17,319 hat at the door, you know, the one that says with the press 258 00:17:17,319 --> 00:17:18,920 sticker on it and all that stuff. 259 00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,359 Like I left that at the door and we're content creators. 260 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,520 And I guess like that is what, 2023? 261 00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:27,400 You could be a content creator in so many different ways. 262 00:17:27,400 --> 00:17:30,400 You could be making content for TikTok or for Instagram and or 263 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,720 you know, yeah. So I mean, the episode goes on 264 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:35,240 and on. I feel like we've even done just 265 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:40,160 sort of end of year review episodes in 2020 after 2022 or 266 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:43,280 something like that. The just sort of and people have 267 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,360 kind of enjoyed like the insurance and outs of building 268 00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:50,520 Sidious. And because if you've been a 269 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:56,080 listener since 2017 or since 2022, it's been kind of cool to 270 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,840 see just sort of like how we've widened our our scope a bit. 271 00:17:58,840 --> 00:18:02,840 But yeah, I mean pre, I guess like that you, I mean this is 272 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:05,040 even before I think you came, came on board. 273 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:08,120 So yeah, we've been talking about it for for a bit of just 274 00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,560 how we've we've operated. Yeah. 275 00:18:10,560 --> 00:18:15,280 And I I'll say, I'll say just, yeah, it's, it's the mix of of 276 00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:20,120 paid media versus earned media. So we can cover as much as 277 00:18:20,120 --> 00:18:22,240 possible. It's like this sort of 278 00:18:22,240 --> 00:18:26,240 situation, the GST situation, Yeah, the relationship and like 279 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,080 the scope of everything was, was greater. 280 00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,760 But it's not really any different than Chris and I going 281 00:18:30,760 --> 00:18:35,480 to Honolulu for the merry mile or us going to the Toronto 282 00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,400 Waterfront Marathon or, you know, the the major marathons 283 00:18:39,400 --> 00:18:42,920 were, were partnered with a brand or new Bounce Nationals or 284 00:18:42,920 --> 00:18:47,760 NXN with Nike. And we do those things so that 285 00:18:47,760 --> 00:18:52,400 we can send people like pre to Diamond Lemon where we don't 286 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:56,600 have partnerships or we send a, a whole crew to NCAA's where 287 00:18:57,320 --> 00:19:01,920 there's no partnership there. It's, it's a mix of that and 288 00:19:01,920 --> 00:19:04,840 it's just so we can cover as much track and field and 289 00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:07,200 professional running or, or I guess amateur running as well 290 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:13,320 with NCAA and high school stuff is possible and to cover and and 291 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,680 pay the whole team behind it. Yeah, and I think, you know, 292 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,280 when I broke up to a Diamond League, for example, you know, 293 00:19:19,280 --> 00:19:23,440 we are, we're in the mix zone with the media, I suppose. 294 00:19:23,440 --> 00:19:27,120 And you know, sometimes to be honest, I get given a content 295 00:19:27,120 --> 00:19:30,840 creator badge, sometimes I get given a media badge, like it, it 296 00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,640 changes. But we're all sort of lumped 297 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:34,560 together. Sometimes they split, split them 298 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,480 out. But it's it's very much, you 299 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:40,520 know, there aren't that many people when you when you go to 300 00:19:40,520 --> 00:19:43,400 Zombie, you'd be surprised how few people there are covering 301 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:44,680 the sport. And that's the one thing about 302 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:49,360 track and field, right, that they just aren't, you know, the 303 00:19:49,360 --> 00:19:52,840 only journalists, you big Jay journalists you will generally 304 00:19:52,840 --> 00:19:55,680 see at most diamond leagues. Occasionally you'll see a couple 305 00:19:55,680 --> 00:19:58,120 of the British newspapers. They seem to be the only people. 306 00:19:59,040 --> 00:20:00,040 And then? And they have a different 307 00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,960 business model, right? Like they're supported by like 308 00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:06,040 the, they're, they're there 'cause they collect a paycheck 309 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:09,840 and they're not necessarily, you know, based off of everything 310 00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:11,400 else that the the newspaper does. 311 00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:14,200 They're not just solely focused on on athletics. 312 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,560 Exactly, And and I think you know, the the outlets that are 313 00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:22,960 focused on athletics, obviously, you know, it's a bit there isn't 314 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,400 really huge amounts of money in covering athletics right there. 315 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,280 There just isn't like apart from where we can get these 316 00:20:30,280 --> 00:20:33,920 partnerships or we can work, work with, with, with brands, 317 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:36,600 you know, and, and Chris, you, you, you obviously have said in 318 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,160 the past, right, when you're doing these deals to like cover 319 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:42,560 the World Championships, for example. 320 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:45,400 Yes, ASIC supported us, but we agreed with them that we could 321 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:48,560 kind of, you know, we, we aren't restricted to talking about just 322 00:20:48,560 --> 00:20:50,120 their athletes or covering their athletes. 323 00:20:50,120 --> 00:20:52,360 We're we're covering everything. Yeah. 324 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:58,400 I think like, I think every brand event, like the people 325 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:01,040 we've worked with have kind of come to an understanding that in 326 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,760 order for cities to do it's best coverage, like you can't just 327 00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,920 handcuff us to covering like their athletes. 328 00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:10,920 Like we can't just be at the US Olympic marathon trials with 329 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:14,760 Hoka and pretend that like all of Naz elite is going to sweep 330 00:21:14,760 --> 00:21:18,600 all six spots of like the US Olympic team at the trials. 331 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:23,520 Like that's just like it it it we are able to openly express 332 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:26,760 and talk about just sort of, you know, our, you know, true 333 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:29,680 thoughts on who's going to make the team and all that stuff and 334 00:21:29,680 --> 00:21:32,880 interview whoever we want and bring in people into the space 335 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,920 that they've carved out for us. And so yeah, that's what makes 336 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,680 it, makes it possible. Yeah. 337 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:40,960 And I would note that it's important to say that we pretty 338 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:45,240 much, yeah, we retain full editorial control over what goes 339 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:48,200 out over our channels in any of these partnerships. 340 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:51,320 I don't, I, I can't really think of any instance where anyone 341 00:21:51,520 --> 00:21:53,800 over the last, I guess four years I've been with Sidious has 342 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:55,480 been like, no, you have to say this. 343 00:21:55,920 --> 00:21:58,040 That's never happened. Yeah, yeah. 344 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:00,640 I can't think of anything like that actually either. 345 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:05,640 But yeah, so, yeah, it, I mean, again, to the point like it just 346 00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:10,080 continues, I guess to get misthought sometimes that people 347 00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:15,080 view us as I think it's more of, you know, news and A and a news 348 00:22:15,080 --> 00:22:21,640 organization when because I I also just think and look at, you 349 00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:23,960 know, sometimes I'm looking at Instagram and it's sort of when 350 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,800 we're blasting some of these news graphics. 351 00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:31,400 Like there are few places, I think that for some people that 352 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:37,080 this is where they get their their news on Sidious, not as 353 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:41,240 many people are following the actual events and certain things 354 00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:47,040 don't cover everything. And so we just continue to try 355 00:22:47,120 --> 00:22:52,320 and, you know, align with the mission of growing the sport and 356 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:57,720 making it easier to be a fan and, and finding way and like 357 00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:02,440 educating people along the way. So yeah, that's yeah, Preet did 358 00:23:02,440 --> 00:23:04,520 you well. As in, as I say, look, we're, 359 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:05,960 we're trying to hike the sport, right? 360 00:23:05,960 --> 00:23:09,440 So we're trying to trying to like highlight the great things, 361 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:13,480 you know, and, and that means that it's, it's quite easy. 362 00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:16,600 It's quite easy to do that. That means that, you know, we're 363 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:19,320 not necessarily going to dwell too heavily on the negative 364 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:20,840 things. We do talk about things like 365 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,640 doping cases and things like that, but we're not, you know, 366 00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:26,000 we're not doing investigative journalism on any of those 367 00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:28,320 things. We're we'll, we'll comment on 368 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:31,320 them as, as far as we can. But you know, we want to hype 369 00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:33,200 the sport. We want, we want the sport to 370 00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:34,480 grow. We want it to become more 371 00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:36,800 popular. And that's kind of the purpose 372 00:23:36,800 --> 00:23:40,240 of what we're doing, right? Because we love it. 373 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,200 We think it's absolutely an amazing sport. 374 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:46,320 And the those the big JS are so important. 375 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:48,640 I just I don't want I don't want that to get lost either. 376 00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:54,800 Like it is absolutely necessary. I wish the environment just like 377 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,800 if you want to zoom out, just look at like local news 378 00:23:56,800 --> 00:24:00,200 organizations or, you know, Washington Post being bought all 379 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,200 that. Just like the climate for big J 380 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,840 journalists, I don't think has ever been worse or or just 381 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,120 harder to exist. And if you're going to zoom into 382 00:24:11,120 --> 00:24:13,880 our sport track and field, they're just so few because it 383 00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:20,000 is so difficult to exist. And that's, you know, I don't, I 384 00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:21,800 don't know what it's going to look like in the future for 385 00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:23,240 that. But like Chris, like you have 386 00:24:23,240 --> 00:24:25,560 former Co workers that you know, contact us. 387 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,040 Oh yeah, constantly, I think like, yeah, I mean, people who 388 00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:32,600 come from more of the traditional journalism, you 389 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:37,080 know, jobs are reaching out constantly to see if there's 390 00:24:37,440 --> 00:24:43,920 ways that we can hire them as freelancers or for just. 391 00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:45,720 Yeah. And or if there are any 392 00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:50,360 positions open, I will tell you. I mean the money could have if 393 00:24:50,360 --> 00:24:52,680 we would have got any of it would have been nice to to be 394 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,560 able to, to hire more people next year. 395 00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:59,120 But yeah, I guess haven't received any part of that 396 00:24:59,120 --> 00:25:02,000 payment. So Preet, this is this is a very 397 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,360 public way of saying we got to let you go in 2026. 398 00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:12,200 No, I mean, I, I think, you know, we, we, we just, as I say, 399 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,680 we, we love track and field. We want to hype it. 400 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,240 And I think the other point is that athletes are not obliged to 401 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,240 talk to us, right? This is the other problem, 402 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:23,520 right? So, and often you will see like 403 00:25:23,520 --> 00:25:26,320 some of these, the journalists asking questions and press 404 00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,040 conferences and things like that, which the athletes don't 405 00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:35,720 take kindly to. And the athletes have no 406 00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:37,800 obligation to stop. So you will often find in the 407 00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,760 mix zone, if the athlete doesn't want to stop or they don't want 408 00:25:39,760 --> 00:25:41,480 to talk to a specific journalist, they will not. 409 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:45,360 And there is absolutely no, you know, in, you know, there's no 410 00:25:45,360 --> 00:25:47,520 reason. And if you, it is also 411 00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:49,200 challenging. You've got to maintain a good 412 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,960 relationship with the athletes. We have to be, we are quite 413 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,360 friendly with a lot of the athletes. 414 00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:57,840 We know them quite well. And you know, that mean, you 415 00:25:57,840 --> 00:26:00,120 know, and in that sense, we're not journalists as well because 416 00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:01,680 we are friends with some of the athletes. 417 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,880 We're we're building those relationships because that also 418 00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,160 helps us cover the sport better and in a slightly different way. 419 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,200 All right. Are we moving on to races that 420 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:12,640 actually happened this past weekend? 421 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,200 Well, we should probably maybe just to round off the Grand Slam 422 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:17,520 track. You know, obviously we talked a 423 00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,680 lot about Sidious, but I think just for everyone else, the 424 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,320 other thing that's interesting that came out of this, we got a 425 00:26:23,320 --> 00:26:26,240 little bit more insight into what the athletes are paid. 426 00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:28,880 So if you want to go out and fight, you know, look at that, 427 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,320 there'll be people doing the math and, you know, we. 428 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,520 Yeah, but the math is. Hard. 429 00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:37,400 The math is hard on this, Yeah. And like we haven't like, I 430 00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,600 guess I've seen numbers that have floated around of just sort 431 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:43,960 of like this is what Sydney's appearance fee is or Josh's 432 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,480 appearance fee is. And it's like, I, I don't think 433 00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:51,360 that there's an exact formula to figuring it out just yet because 434 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:54,360 we don't quite know what some of the numbers are. 435 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,120 So like I see numbers that are floating around, but it I I 436 00:26:59,120 --> 00:27:02,680 don't know if it accounts for four events versus three, if 437 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,840 some of that includes like what some of these people's like 438 00:27:05,840 --> 00:27:11,120 racers contracts were. So there are some big numbers 439 00:27:11,120 --> 00:27:15,040 though, and like people have been wanting to know like what 440 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,200 is athlete XS appearance fee for a meet? 441 00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:22,720 And I think this kind of gives you an idea and the numbers were 442 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:24,400 all right. Preetla, do you have the list in 443 00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:27,080 order of just sort of? Yeah, I have the list of of how 444 00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,320 much they were owed. So the the highest the athlete 445 00:27:30,760 --> 00:27:32,920 that was owed the most amount of money was Sidney McLaughlin 446 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:39,280 Lovroney who was owed $356,250. And then there was Gabby Thomas 447 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:47,360 with $249,375, Kenny Bednarek with 225,000 and Josh Kerr with 448 00:27:47,360 --> 00:27:52,960 200 and 18750. And you might be surprised that 449 00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,920 Melissa Jefferson Wooden was not as high up. 450 00:27:56,920 --> 00:28:02,280 She was only owed 100 and 9065, which suggests given she earned 451 00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:06,400 a lot more prize money given she won all her slams, she her 452 00:28:06,400 --> 00:28:08,360 appearance fee was probably a bit lower for example. 453 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:09,800 Yeah. But I guess we've got to 454 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,040 remember this is coming off of 2024. 455 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,400 So she was the Olympic bronze medals in the 100. 456 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,280 And so it's like if if you're redoing this for 2025, then 457 00:28:19,280 --> 00:28:22,480 yeah, I mean, like if you put her probably around where 458 00:28:22,480 --> 00:28:25,080 Gabby's spot is really maybe even higher. 459 00:28:25,120 --> 00:28:26,400 Yeah. Yeah. 460 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,520 So, yeah. But you, you can tell from that, 461 00:28:28,520 --> 00:28:31,160 you know, because we know that they got paid probably about 462 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:32,960 half their prize money. They might have received 463 00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:35,720 something before, but we know that there was that payment a 464 00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:38,120 couple of months ago where they received half of their 465 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:41,560 outstanding prize money. But yes, there is. 466 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:45,080 Yeah, even if you do the maths, you know. 467 00:28:45,120 --> 00:28:48,960 Yes, Sydney was paid a bit more. And it kind of makes you think 468 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,760 just sort of like This is why sometimes, like in Diamond 469 00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,320 League races, like an athlete isn't totally like upset when 470 00:28:56,440 --> 00:29:00,560 they finished second in a race when the appearance fee that 471 00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:03,280 they got is, you know, crazy high. 472 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:10,680 So the $10,000 for first place is like, OK, but did the actual 473 00:29:10,680 --> 00:29:14,560 first place winner make up all that other money to be the 474 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:17,160 actual biggest financial winner of the weekend? 475 00:29:17,480 --> 00:29:21,160 Maybe not. So yeah, that's sort of where 476 00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,640 the, the, the, the appearance fee stuff is, is interesting. 477 00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:27,520 I, I just got to say that one of the biggest things that sucks 478 00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:33,120 and I, I feel for the athletes so just so badly that like to 479 00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:37,080 disrupt your regular season with the promise of like the carrot 480 00:29:37,080 --> 00:29:39,400 out in front of you for like this guaranteed money that 481 00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:41,480 you're supposed to be receiving. Like, and you're being 482 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,560 compensated to basically disrupt your season with the hopes of 483 00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:49,360 like creating a more of like a, a marathon major, you know, kind 484 00:29:49,360 --> 00:29:55,000 of league. And then to not get paid is just 485 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,120 like you disrupt your season going into worlds and then to 486 00:29:58,120 --> 00:30:00,520 ultimately not even be compensated to like disrupt your 487 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:03,280 regular training. God that sucks. 488 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:09,120 It just sucks so bad. It worked out for someone like 489 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:13,040 Melissa and Kenny where they made it like work and and you 490 00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,120 know, they've talked about just sort of like how that was good 491 00:30:16,120 --> 00:30:18,120 practice for it. But then when you look at just 492 00:30:18,120 --> 00:30:21,320 sort of the season that yard and a goose had, that's you're just 493 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,400 like, maybe things would have turned out much differently at 494 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,520 Usas had he not had to, you know, go through and do 38 495 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,960 hundreds in April, May and April and May. 496 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,480 Yeah. So I guess the final thing, 497 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,600 Preet, is just that, yeah. I mean, we're in the same boat 498 00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:45,640 as everyone else of waiting and seeing where the bankruptcy 499 00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:53,200 filing and process goes. Am I optimistic that we'll see 500 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,360 any money? No, no. 501 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,040 Yeah. Because I guess in your 502 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:03,200 understanding of things like it's going to be who gets paid 503 00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:07,200 1st and then the lawyers come before a lot of these unsecured 504 00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:08,200 creditors. Right. 505 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:11,920 So well the people who are doing the bankruptcy, they will get 506 00:31:11,920 --> 00:31:14,200 paid. So the lawyers slash insolvency 507 00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,040 practitioners who are doing the actual bankruptcy, they get 508 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:20,760 paid. But in terms of, you know, the 509 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,880 other other kind of people, I don't think Grand Slam Trac had 510 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,680 secured creditors because they didn't have any assets. 511 00:31:25,680 --> 00:31:28,840 So like if you own, say a property or something, then you 512 00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:32,280 might have creditors who have security over the property. 513 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:35,520 So that obviously if someone goes bust, they can either take 514 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,360 the property or they they are priority for any funds that do 515 00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,440 come out. But here I don't think Grand 516 00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:45,000 Slam Trac, I wouldn't expect them to have any creditors of 517 00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:48,200 that sort of priority. Doesn't look look like that, but 518 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,400 they might not be listed on this list, but, but we're not really 519 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:52,720 expecting that. So I think this is in general, 520 00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:56,000 they're all unsecured creditors for the most part. 521 00:31:56,880 --> 00:31:59,600 The only thing that might be kind of that they have to pay is 522 00:31:59,600 --> 00:32:01,880 things like taxes. They might rank ahead of this. 523 00:32:02,240 --> 00:32:07,680 But but yeah, in general, these are the unsecured creditors. 524 00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,040 So they're all in a group. I don't know if there are any 525 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:12,680 kind of categorizations, whether the athletes are maybe treated 526 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:15,240 differently to some of the other suppliers, I don't know. 527 00:32:15,520 --> 00:32:19,000 But in a sense, all these people are provided services to ground 528 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:21,720 sum track and so they're probably likely all sort of 529 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,960 lumped together as far as this goes. 530 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:29,440 Preet Why the hell wasn't that money in escrow before the 531 00:32:29,440 --> 00:32:33,840 season started? Well, I think the reality is 532 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:37,720 that most businesses work on, you know, they work on credit. 533 00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:41,560 So that's how pretty much any business works that, you know, 534 00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:45,440 in my day job, I provide services to clients, you know, 535 00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:50,520 tax advice and we kind of do that on faith. 536 00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:53,360 We will do 10s of thousands, hundreds of thousands, whatever 537 00:32:53,360 --> 00:32:55,960 it is of work. And then at the end, we'll 538 00:32:56,680 --> 00:32:58,440 present with an invoice and hopefully get paid. 539 00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,760 And the reality is that's how all most businesses work. 540 00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,200 Now, normally when it's a startup business or a new 541 00:33:05,200 --> 00:33:09,600 business or a small business, you would say actually, you 542 00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:12,160 know, we want some payment upfront or you would, you would 543 00:33:12,160 --> 00:33:15,280 do something to kind of say, well, the first few times we 544 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,160 deal with you, we want to make sure. 545 00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:20,840 But I think here with Grand Slam Track, I very much suspect that 546 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,400 people were like, we know that there's this big fund behind 547 00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,360 them. They've got X $1,000,000 they've 548 00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,520 told us about. Everyone's kind of well aware of 549 00:33:27,520 --> 00:33:29,840 that. So it should all be fine. 550 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,640 And obviously we didn't know that behind the scenes, you 551 00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:36,160 know, that investor dropped out and and therefore they didn't 552 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:39,280 quite have the money that they'd originally expected to have. 553 00:33:39,280 --> 00:33:45,120 And yeah, that that's a bit challenging of a situation. 554 00:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,240 But again, I guess it's a lesson and, and it, it's maybe 555 00:33:48,240 --> 00:33:50,960 something that that, you know, going forward, if you're a new 556 00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:53,760 track startup, if someone else tries to do what Grand Slam 557 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:58,600 track tried to do this year, I suspect people are going to be 558 00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:03,200 asking for money in escrow or upfront payments or deposits or 559 00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:07,480 whatever it is to make sure that they don't at least take a 560 00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:10,280 financial loss, right? At least you cover your costs. 561 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:13,480 Even if you don't get your profit, maybe you get 50% or 60% 562 00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,600 or whatever it is upfront to cover your costs. 563 00:34:15,920 --> 00:34:20,280 I suspect people will, you know, be more sceptical. 564 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:24,239 And I think to that point, Sebco has also come out with some 565 00:34:24,239 --> 00:34:28,239 comments. Oh yeah, there's this like this 566 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,040 morning or something like that. Yes. 567 00:34:30,040 --> 00:34:34,639 So he and so a couple of the comments he said is I don't want 568 00:34:34,639 --> 00:34:37,639 to get into the embers of this, but we do create the calendar. 569 00:34:37,880 --> 00:34:41,040 So if Grand Slam Tractor was to come back, I think what he was 570 00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:44,040 trying to say was we'd have to think very carefully as to 571 00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:46,800 whether we would grant, we would certify them as a World 572 00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:49,400 Athletics meet. And obviously in 2026 in 573 00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,679 particular, you know, ranking points and all of that are 574 00:34:52,679 --> 00:34:55,239 really important to get to the ultimate championship. 575 00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,720 So actually being a World Athletic certified meet is 576 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,960 actually really critical. And to be honest, you can't see 577 00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:03,920 any top athletes going to a meet that isn't World Athletics 578 00:35:03,960 --> 00:35:06,920 certified as well. Well, I guess this is this goes 579 00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:08,760 back to my podcast that I did with Fobble. 580 00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,120 I kind of disagree with that final point where it just sort 581 00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,240 of you could have like an independent venture of a of a 582 00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,640 league if you did have like all of the big money behind it. 583 00:35:17,640 --> 00:35:20,000 Because it's sort of like the athletes who are going to be 584 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,320 competing at world champs or at Olympics will hit the standard 585 00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:26,480 and at work, they will go and off and do the one off meet 586 00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:29,000 where they, you know, check the box for the standard or whatever 587 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:31,160 it might be and then actually compete at the World 588 00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,960 Championships. But it is, it is I guess 589 00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:37,680 important to a lot of just the traditional I guess meets now 590 00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,080 that like you, you are on the World Athletics calendar. 591 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,800 You can't, I guess we're not in a place where an independent, 592 00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:45,800 you know, league can go off and do it's own thing. 593 00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,040 The enhanced games not on the calendar. 594 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:52,360 Not on the calendar, but I mean, I think the other things he kind 595 00:35:52,360 --> 00:35:56,440 of said is we have to make sure that when there are fresh events 596 00:35:56,440 --> 00:35:58,680 that they come to the table with the kind of credentials and 597 00:35:58,680 --> 00:36:01,720 assets that I've talked about, there's a responsibility to do 598 00:36:01,720 --> 00:36:03,240 that. And I think probably going 599 00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:06,240 forward that is something we will look at in greater depth. 600 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:11,680 So I, I, I think what it sounds like is now in the future they 601 00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:17,240 will be more cautious with any new startups that are trying to 602 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,440 do, do things. Yeah, because it's, it's 603 00:36:20,440 --> 00:36:23,720 fascinating because it's like if you were at any other job, right 604 00:36:23,720 --> 00:36:28,520 where you're told like you have this budget to do XYZ, like it's 605 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,760 very you're never really like say I work for like a shoe 606 00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:34,520 company and I was told like, hey, you've got this budget to 607 00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,560 go sign XYZ athletes. Like my next move is not to go 608 00:36:38,560 --> 00:36:42,080 ask what can I see the bank account that shows me like the 609 00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600 dollars that are in in there to be able to go and do my job. 610 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:48,520 But you know, I guess like World Athletics is going to need to 611 00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:50,560 find a way to verify just sort of that. 612 00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:52,360 All right. Like if you say you are offering 613 00:36:52,360 --> 00:36:56,840 up XYZ prize money, prove that you have the funds or the 614 00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,280 ability to do it. I wonder how like if there's any 615 00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,360 other smaller meets who like take a long long long time to 616 00:37:02,360 --> 00:37:04,320 pay. Like if this if something like 617 00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:08,880 this would set them back. But yeah, so I guess like one of 618 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,200 the things that and I I think you should have talked about 619 00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,720 this on off the rails in one episode when she came back from 620 00:37:13,720 --> 00:37:16,960 like one of the World Athletics, like Congress meetings or the 621 00:37:16,960 --> 00:37:20,440 committee that she's part of. Is that one of the big things 622 00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:24,720 that was being pushed recently has been the hopes of athletes 623 00:37:24,720 --> 00:37:28,200 being able to be paid in a more timely manner. 624 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:33,000 Because, I mean, this has been a thing even since Mack was a 625 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:34,800 professional runner. Like Mack, when you retired, 626 00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:37,880 like you still had like thousands of dollars that were 627 00:37:37,880 --> 00:37:40,320 owed to you from meats and and things. 628 00:37:40,480 --> 00:37:44,360 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's some meats take up to a year or 629 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:48,240 longer to to pay, which is it's absolutely crazy. 630 00:37:48,240 --> 00:37:53,200 But and it's like it's it's not legal how long they hold payment 631 00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:56,680 for some of the meats. But yeah, that's just kind of 632 00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:58,560 how everyone just kind of accepts it. 633 00:37:58,560 --> 00:38:02,640 That's just how it is. And I think a lot of times the 634 00:38:02,640 --> 00:38:06,080 meats are kind of running their stuff off of like next year's 635 00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:07,840 budget. So they kind of have to wait for 636 00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:12,160 the next year's finances to come in for the meet and then they 637 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,560 start back paying for the years prior. 638 00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,480 That's track and field, baby. The City of Smack podcast is 639 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,760 presented by Gnomeo Performance from the inside out. 640 00:38:26,720 --> 00:38:29,400 You probably saw it, Joe Clecker's marathon debut in New 641 00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,880 York City 210, a debut that looked composed and strong all 642 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,360 the way throughout. While he's spoken out about the 643 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:41,560 importance of fueling a lot on this show, Joe has also been 644 00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:45,960 using Gnomeo in his build up. Gnomeo's built exactly for that 645 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,000 feeling that we're chasing when the training clicks, recovery 646 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:51,800 feels smoother, and race day legs actually show up. 647 00:38:52,040 --> 00:38:55,680 It's a daily 60 milliliter shot, mostly broccoli sprout juice, 648 00:38:55,920 --> 00:38:59,320 lemon and a such as sugar. But the magic is in the science. 649 00:38:59,560 --> 00:39:03,400 Nearly a decade of research from Sweden's Karolinska Institute 650 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:07,040 went into stabilizing compounds from cruciferous vegetables, the 651 00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:10,200 stuff that helps your body naturally handle the stress of 652 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:11,800 heart training. We're talking lower lactate, 653 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,600 better recovery, and stronger muscle adaptation. 654 00:39:14,600 --> 00:39:17,280 Athletes like Cole Hawker, Andreas Almgren, Clayton Young, 655 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:20,560 Nico Young are all using Gnomeo to push a little harder, bounce 656 00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:23,520 back faster, and feel that light on your feet rhythm that we're 657 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:26,360 all chasing. Let's hear how Joe Clecker has 658 00:39:26,360 --> 00:39:29,040 been used using Omeo. So first I was a bit of a 659 00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:31,520 skeptic of the the product. You know, I was like, what is 660 00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:34,280 this? But I got it and started using 661 00:39:34,280 --> 00:39:37,760 it and then I'll use it like 2 hours before I'll get up and 662 00:39:37,760 --> 00:39:39,280 have it because our workouts are pretty early. 663 00:39:39,640 --> 00:39:42,840 Every workout I'd implement what I'm going to do on race day into 664 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:44,560 the workout. So my routine every morning is 665 00:39:44,560 --> 00:39:47,720 same breakfast no meo 3 hours. Before. 666 00:39:47,960 --> 00:39:51,760 I do buy card 2 to 3 hours before and then I'll have no 667 00:39:51,760 --> 00:39:53,600 meal before bed and for recovery but. 668 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,000 I wasn't a. Huge believer. 669 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:58,600 And I just did it because they had sent it to me at first and 670 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:03,200 then Sage started using it and she used it at USA for the first 671 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:08,680 time between her rounds and she was like blown away by how fresh 672 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,320 she felt through the rounds. And obviously that could just be 673 00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:13,480 fitness and training, but she was like. 674 00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:15,800 You know, this was a new thing she was trying and it really 675 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:17,480 helped her. And then she did the same in 676 00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,920 Tokyo. And like, so now we have that 677 00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:21,240 helped me really believe in it a lot. 678 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:23,640 I'm like, OK, I know she's the fittest she's ever been, but 679 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:28,080 also she starts using this, you know, this new product and has 680 00:40:28,080 --> 00:40:30,640 the best race of her life. You know, maybe I should keep 681 00:40:30,640 --> 00:40:33,640 using it as well. So yeah, I've been using it 682 00:40:33,640 --> 00:40:37,440 every workout, every long run. The recommended practice is you 683 00:40:37,440 --> 00:40:41,440 take one shot 3 hours before a big workout, a race, or daily 684 00:40:41,440 --> 00:40:44,880 during heavy training blocks and those especially tough days. 685 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:48,360 A second shot before bed can help your recovery overnight. 686 00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:52,560 It's nature meets science, a small routine with a big pay 687 00:40:52,560 --> 00:40:55,840 off. You can find Gnomeo on the feed 688 00:40:56,080 --> 00:41:01,040 and Sidious Mag listeners get 15% off using code Sidious 15 at 689 00:41:01,040 --> 00:41:06,440 check out. That's Citi US15 at thefeed.com. 690 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:14,160 Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. This episode of the City of 691 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,000 Smack podcast is presented by the Wahoo Kicker Run. 692 00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,240 So at this point in human history, we all know what a 693 00:41:21,240 --> 00:41:23,640 treadmill is. You either love it or you call 694 00:41:23,640 --> 00:41:26,000 it the dreadmill. But what if I told you the 695 00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:29,160 treadmill finally got interesting and fun? 696 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,680 Yeah, Meet the Wahoo Kicker Run. It looks like your normal 697 00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:37,320 treadmill, but the first time you step on it, you realize it's 698 00:41:37,320 --> 00:41:40,760 not the kicker Run literally responds to you. 699 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:44,280 Run faster, it speeds up. Ease back, it slows down. 700 00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:48,160 That's called the run Free mode. And it's exactly what it sounds 701 00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,120 like. No buttons to worry about, Just 702 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,120 running. That actually feels like 703 00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:56,160 running. You can hook it up to Zwift, and 704 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:57,520 it gets even better. The kicker? 705 00:41:57,520 --> 00:42:00,920 Run automatically adjusts for climbs and descents, so when 706 00:42:00,920 --> 00:42:04,360 your avatar is hitting a hill in the virtual world, the deck 707 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,040 tilts up. In real life, you're suddenly 708 00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,840 feeling that terrain, not just seeing it. 709 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:15,080 Add in a quiet motor, a buttery smooth belt, and speeds up to 15 710 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,520 mph. It's basically the closest thing 711 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,120 you can get to an outdoor run without leaving your house. 712 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,920 We all know those temperatures are starting to drop, so you 713 00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:27,320 might want to get on top of Lock and down your Wahoo Kicker Run. 714 00:42:28,280 --> 00:42:31,880 It's premium, it's techie, it's kind of nerdy, and it's a lot of 715 00:42:31,880 --> 00:42:33,680 fun. The Wahoo Kicker Run makes 716 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:36,680 indoor training something you actually look forward to. 717 00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:40,320 Cole Hawker, the 5000 meter world champion and 1500m Olympic 718 00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:46,360 champion, uses it to supplementhistrainingyoucanlearnmore@wahoofitness.com 719 00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,560 Citius Mac Podcast listeners can also unlock a special offer from 720 00:42:50,560 --> 00:42:54,600 now until the end of November. You'll get 25% off your order if 721 00:42:54,720 --> 00:42:56,520 you use Code Sidious at checkout. 722 00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,800 That's CITIUS. And you'll also get a free Wahoo 723 00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:04,880 Kicker Headwind fan. It's a smart fan that's 724 00:43:04,880 --> 00:43:07,760 intelligently controlling fan speeds to keep you cool when the 725 00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:11,240 training is heating up. It's valued at 319 bucks, but 726 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:14,520 it's all yours for free when you use the Code Sidious at 727 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,080 checkout. The Wahoo Kicker run. 728 00:43:17,480 --> 00:43:19,760 Check it out at wahoofitness.com. 729 00:43:19,880 --> 00:43:23,360 Use Code Sidious at checkout for that special offer. 730 00:43:25,040 --> 00:43:29,840 Let's let's move on to Hawaii or actually Preet, let's give you a 731 00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,800 chance to unpack Eurocross because First off, me and Mac 732 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,680 didn't watch it. Like we woke up to text at like 733 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:43,440 2:00 in the morning from both you and Kyle, who I guess had 734 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:47,800 been watching it. So what exactly happened at the 735 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:49,200 European Cross Country Championships? 736 00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:53,320 I think the biggest question I want you guys to Google and see 737 00:43:53,320 --> 00:43:58,600 if you can Google a photo of the me or the course or the and the 738 00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:02,640 reason why I say that is I want to ask you the question, do you 739 00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:06,920 think this is cross country? So I'll leave you to kind of 740 00:44:06,920 --> 00:44:11,640 Google the course, but essentially it was not on grass. 741 00:44:11,720 --> 00:44:15,840 It was a sandy gravelly. It was a purpose built. 742 00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:18,080 The first thing is it was a purpose built course. 743 00:44:18,320 --> 00:44:20,960 It was a sandy and it was sand and gravel. 744 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:23,720 There were people talking about wearing super shoes on this 745 00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:30,640 course rather than spikes. And they and the other thing was 746 00:44:31,440 --> 00:44:34,400 it looked like an F1 racetrack. There were hairpin turns all 747 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:36,640 over the place. The athletes I know in Hawaii 748 00:44:36,640 --> 00:44:39,080 were complaining of her having to make that one U-turn. 749 00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,880 This was about 10 on each lap. It was crazy. 750 00:44:42,720 --> 00:44:46,040 So it was a very different kind of, it was a technical course. 751 00:44:46,040 --> 00:44:51,440 There were, you know, bumps and humps and, you know, inclines 752 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:56,040 and and stuff as well. But it was it was a very like 753 00:44:56,160 --> 00:44:58,960 turny course and it wasn't a very wide course as well. 754 00:44:59,080 --> 00:45:03,480 So on the hips, yeah, it was it was a very interesting dynamic. 755 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:06,720 There were a lot of fools as well. 756 00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:10,280 But there were people literally who were trying to take corners. 757 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,920 They were running too fast, so they're going out wide like 758 00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:15,040 their car was oversteered a corner. 759 00:45:15,040 --> 00:45:19,160 And just like the biggest culprit was Ken Mcphillips, 4th 760 00:45:19,160 --> 00:45:21,520 place in the 800 meters at the Olympics, because he was clearly 761 00:45:21,520 --> 00:45:24,800 just running so fast that he just overrun each corner and 762 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,760 like go miles off to the other side of the course. 763 00:45:27,000 --> 00:45:29,440 And then he came in, he was running the mix relay and he 764 00:45:29,440 --> 00:45:33,000 came in and he just pulled over the, the, the woman he was 765 00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:35,640 handing over to. And so she was like flat on her 766 00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:39,160 face. It was, it was carnage. 767 00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:41,960 So that was a lot of fun. It was a lot of fun to watch. 768 00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,200 And actually it was a really good advert for what the sport 769 00:45:46,200 --> 00:45:48,600 can be. I don't know whether the purists 770 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,640 would call it cross country in the conventional sense, but it 771 00:45:50,640 --> 00:45:51,720 was a lot. Of no, I feel like that. 772 00:45:51,720 --> 00:45:55,720 I'm looking at a video that Athletics Weekly posted and 773 00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:00,400 yeah, I could see the gravel in the comments section, assuming 774 00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,920 it is most of their British audiences, like this is not 775 00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:07,640 cross country. So yeah, I've been looking at a 776 00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,760 couple. Like maybe the finish stretch 777 00:46:09,760 --> 00:46:12,160 had a little bit of grass, but that's the only grass that I'm 778 00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:16,840 I'm seeing here. Yeah, Mike, your thoughts? 779 00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:19,960 Yeah, no, it's fascinating. Usually I feel like European 780 00:46:19,960 --> 00:46:23,240 cross champs are like, you know, that's what we think of real 781 00:46:23,240 --> 00:46:26,440 cross country. And normally it's, you know, I, 782 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:31,400 I'm, I go straight back to like Garrett Heath running in like 783 00:46:31,400 --> 00:46:36,120 that snow and slop and mud and like that's European cross in my 784 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:41,120 mind or Jakob like in just like completely covered in mud and 785 00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:42,640 all that. Like that's what I think of like 786 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:44,560 for European cross. That's real cross country. 787 00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,480 This is a this is AUS cross country course right here. 788 00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:49,320 This looks like the California State. 789 00:46:49,320 --> 00:46:53,560 Meet some nice DG dirt for you. Hard pack use. 790 00:46:53,680 --> 00:46:56,720 Wear some super shoes. There are some. 791 00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,160 It does look like there's some pretty uncomfortable turns, but 792 00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:04,200 yeah, this is not what I'm I'm used to seeing here. 793 00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:08,440 So the big winners of the day, who were they pre? 794 00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:12,160 Yeah, so in the women's race, kind of as expected, Nadia 795 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:18,200 Batakleti won and Megan Keith of GB came second. 796 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:21,720 Despite falling off the line, she managed to to recover, work 797 00:47:21,720 --> 00:47:24,360 her way back through the field and get a creditable second 798 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:27,720 place. But the other fun thing was we 799 00:47:27,720 --> 00:47:31,240 talked last week about Chloe Herbier who came 4th at the 800 00:47:31,240 --> 00:47:36,760 Valencia Marathon, ran 22038. She doubled back, came seventh 801 00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:42,520 in this race and helped the Belgian team to A457 finish the 802 00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:47,480 three scorers Eurocross to get the gold medal, so that was a 803 00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:49,440 pretty amazing kind. Of town Feel like this is your 804 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,320 new favorite athlete, like you're going to find a way to 805 00:47:51,320 --> 00:47:54,560 shout her out every single week, and also the fact that she's 806 00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,360 been racing so much is impressive. 807 00:47:56,880 --> 00:47:59,280 Well, it's just the one week turn around after a marathon to 808 00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:01,320 to come 7th is is pretty impressive. 809 00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:05,280 And then there's a 1500m runner from France, Agatha Guillermo, 810 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:07,840 who came a creditable 11th. She was kind of pushing quite 811 00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:10,880 hard in a 7 1/2 K race. That's that's pretty impressive 812 00:48:11,720 --> 00:48:13,480 for her. And say wait wait wait. 813 00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,840 Why is Why is Euro Cross 7 1/2 for the women? 814 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,400 It's 7, so it's equal. It's equal for the men and the 815 00:48:19,400 --> 00:48:20,240 women. It's 7 1/2. 816 00:48:20,240 --> 00:48:22,520 It's really the the distances are God awful. 817 00:48:22,680 --> 00:48:24,200 Like they're very random distances. 818 00:48:25,720 --> 00:48:27,800 That's a constant topic of conversation. 819 00:48:27,800 --> 00:48:30,760 Wait a minute. OK, it's but does it vary on the 820 00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,400 course or is it always 7 and a? Half, I think it's, it's 821 00:48:33,400 --> 00:48:36,800 somewhere in the region of 7 1/2 to 8 K every year. 822 00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:38,280 It's somewhere in that, in that ballpark. 823 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:44,960 And then the the U20 and the UU 20 race is like 4 1/2 and the 824 00:48:44,960 --> 00:48:47,160 U23 race. Is wait really? 825 00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:49,920 Yeah. So they're very strange 826 00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,240 distances. It makes no sense to anybody. 827 00:48:52,440 --> 00:48:55,040 And they also, I think a couple of years, I think they did have 828 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,760 men's and women's distances different and they equalize the 829 00:48:57,760 --> 00:48:59,760 distances. So I think that might be part of 830 00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:01,760 the reason why the men's race isn't 10K anymore. 831 00:49:01,760 --> 00:49:04,320 I think it maybe used to. Be no wonder Yaakov is 1 so 832 00:49:04,320 --> 00:49:07,080 many. No, just kidding. 833 00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,480 He probably would be very good over the 10K one too, yeah. 834 00:49:09,520 --> 00:49:12,560 I, I love that because it's cross country, it shouldn't 835 00:49:12,560 --> 00:49:14,440 matter. I honestly, the athletes 836 00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,840 shouldn't even like get to know that coaches should have to 837 00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:19,000 wield the thing the day before. Like you're like, all right, 838 00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,880 here's your loop. It's some undisclosed distance. 839 00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:24,760 There's five loops. Like it's cross country. 840 00:49:24,760 --> 00:49:28,200 The distance doesn't like for the most part, it doesn't 841 00:49:28,200 --> 00:49:32,080 actually like matter if 7 1/2 to 8K doesn't matter. 842 00:49:32,240 --> 00:49:35,360 And you can't compare cross country times across courses or 843 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:36,720 days. Like that's ridiculous. 844 00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:40,120 So I actually love that it's some some random distance. 845 00:49:40,800 --> 00:49:43,960 Who went on the men's side? So the men's side, obviously the 846 00:49:43,960 --> 00:49:48,920 race featured world 10,000 meter champion Jimmy Gressier and he 847 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,440 was going stride for stride with Thierry Indukimranio of Spain. 848 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:57,440 But he looked pretty uncomfortable the whole way 849 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,440 round. And I think that was partly, I 850 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:01,640 think he said afterwards it just wasn't his kind of course. 851 00:50:02,000 --> 00:50:05,920 And essentially on the last turn on the bit that becomes grass as 852 00:50:05,920 --> 00:50:08,320 you come into the finish line, he stumbled. 853 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:10,840 So we don't really know whether he would have been able to to 854 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:14,840 out kick and Dukim Anayo. But I mean cherry and Dukim 855 00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:17,960 Anayo, credit to him. He ran, I mean, he's Spanish. 856 00:50:18,280 --> 00:50:24,000 He ran all four Spanish gold, gold cross country, well, 857 00:50:24,160 --> 00:50:28,440 continental tour races that were in Spain in the month before. 858 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:31,560 So he kind of and they were all a similar distance. 859 00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:36,000 So he had literally been practicing hard for this, 860 00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:38,640 running a lot cross country and that obviously showed. 861 00:50:39,880 --> 00:50:44,480 So yeah, that was that was an impressive run. 862 00:50:44,480 --> 00:50:46,960 And again, he let let Spain to the team win there as well. 863 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:49,160 I mean, yeah, he that's impressive. 864 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:53,080 He he competed but in the 5K at 5K and 10K at the World 865 00:50:53,080 --> 00:50:55,680 Championships for for Spain. So he had a late season and then 866 00:50:55,680 --> 00:51:00,440 did 33 cross country meets. Yeah, No, no breaks for this 867 00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,520 guy. You know, but I guess it's kind 868 00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,440 of a home kind of they're effectively home meets for him, 869 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:10,040 right, so. Really like, well, so I'm 870 00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:15,160 looking at this right now, Preet like, however big Spain is like 871 00:51:15,160 --> 00:51:20,520 he's still got to travel to Sevilla to Soria to Otta Puerca 872 00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:26,520 to Alco Bendas and then Eurocross in in Lagos like or 873 00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:32,440 Lagoa like it's not necessarily he's just leaving his house and 874 00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:35,480 and driving up to for parking. Yeah, it's a few hours on the 875 00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:39,040 train, which to be fair for us Europeans is not, not the end of 876 00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:42,040 the world. We prefer that to a long drive, 877 00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:44,680 to be fair. The the and pre, you can correct 878 00:51:44,680 --> 00:51:48,640 me if I'm wrong, but like the the Spanish cross country series 879 00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:51,360 is a pretty big deal for those professional athletes over 880 00:51:51,360 --> 00:51:52,840 there. Like the a lot of the bigger 881 00:51:52,840 --> 00:51:57,680 names in Spain kind of run that that Spanish cross country 882 00:51:57,720 --> 00:51:59,280 circuit. That's a lot of points. 883 00:51:59,280 --> 00:52:02,800 What's the back door to the 10K at at Worlds? 884 00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:08,760 But usually, like Bottacletti locked up the spot in 2025, 885 00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:12,480 there's only three that end up going to World Championships. 886 00:52:12,480 --> 00:52:16,080 But I do think, yeah, to your point, Mac, there are some 887 00:52:16,080 --> 00:52:20,600 incentives for the club system in Spain that these athletes 888 00:52:20,600 --> 00:52:25,000 choose to race those meets. And when I was in Spain back in 889 00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,800 2015, I thought it was because you you think of like Real 890 00:52:29,800 --> 00:52:34,000 Madrid or FC Barcelona like that. 891 00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:36,880 Those are, they're the big soccer clubs, but like, it's an 892 00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:41,240 Athletic Club that like they have a track team as well with a 893 00:52:41,240 --> 00:52:43,920 similar uniform to that of the soccer team. 894 00:52:43,920 --> 00:52:48,080 And it's cool that it extends out into a bunch of different 895 00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:53,600 sports. But yeah, Spain's kind of their 896 00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:56,920 athletic setup is much different than here in the States. 897 00:52:58,440 --> 00:53:00,720 They don't have like the something as big as like the 898 00:53:00,720 --> 00:53:02,560 NCAA. Same thing for you guys I guess 899 00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:04,200 in the UK Preet. Yeah. 900 00:53:04,200 --> 00:53:08,480 And I think that's why we have EU 23 age group, which you might 901 00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:09,520 think, well, no one else. Yeah. 902 00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,840 So we, we, we knocked it a couple times in the past, but 903 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:15,200 we, we learned through you, I guess the, the greater service 904 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,840 that it provides. Yeah, exactly. 905 00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:21,040 You know, the athletes don't really have, you know, and in 906 00:53:21,040 --> 00:53:24,160 the US you have the NCAA as kind of the bridge between the junior 907 00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,960 sort of U20 high school scene to the sort of senior ranks, whilst 908 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:31,720 in Europe we don't really have that. 909 00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,240 So U 23 age group does in some ways help athletes to kind of 910 00:53:36,240 --> 00:53:39,960 have something transitional where you don't go from, you 911 00:53:39,960 --> 00:53:43,600 know, being top U20 athlete to being a non factor in 912 00:53:43,600 --> 00:53:46,960 professional races. And you can you can kind of work 913 00:53:46,960 --> 00:53:49,600 your way through through the age groups and still sort of perform 914 00:53:49,600 --> 00:53:52,360 well and compete against sort of similar level talent. 915 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:57,480 The other fun race was the mixed relay. 916 00:53:57,600 --> 00:54:02,440 And the fun thing about this was the Portuguese team, home team 917 00:54:02,440 --> 00:54:05,560 featuring 1500 meter world champion Isaac Nader. 918 00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:10,960 And they were, and this is, and remember, this is a 1500 meter 919 00:54:11,080 --> 00:54:15,240 loop relay, you know, 15-15 hundred to 1800 meter loops. 920 00:54:17,000 --> 00:54:23,240 And they were about 8 to 10 seconds behind after 2 laps. 921 00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:28,240 And then you had Slomi Afonso and Isaac Nader, who are 922 00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:31,520 obviously their two best runners who managed to make up that 923 00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:34,280 distance. And Isaac Nader was charging 924 00:54:34,280 --> 00:54:38,160 like anybody's business. He didn't manage to catch the 925 00:54:38,160 --> 00:54:41,000 Italians who who won because they were quite a few seconds 926 00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:44,560 ahead. But he closed the gap to about 3 927 00:54:44,560 --> 00:54:49,280 or 4 seconds by the end, which was, yeah, it was really fun to 928 00:54:49,280 --> 00:54:53,880 watch because obviously home crowd cheering him on and he put 929 00:54:53,880 --> 00:54:57,920 on a show And obviously if the first two legs have been a touch 930 00:54:57,920 --> 00:55:00,120 more competitive like he would have got the win. 931 00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,600 Do we know? I guess like just exact, I have 932 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:08,960 teams started to be named for world cross to know like who's 933 00:55:09,000 --> 00:55:11,760 who's going to be showing up. I know, I think Batacladi has 934 00:55:11,760 --> 00:55:14,760 said that she's going to be competing in it, but like, is 935 00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:18,520 Nader going to be on like the Portuguese relay team in 936 00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:21,480 Tallahassee? I don't know to be honest. 937 00:55:21,480 --> 00:55:24,360 I I think there have been some teams announced, but I haven't 938 00:55:24,360 --> 00:55:27,360 kind of closely been. Yes, we still have like 3 more 939 00:55:27,360 --> 00:55:29,800 weeks, right? Yeah, I think Jimmy Gracio said 940 00:55:29,800 --> 00:55:32,800 that he wants to do it. So it sounds like he will be 941 00:55:32,800 --> 00:55:34,280 there. So that that that would be 942 00:55:34,280 --> 00:55:37,880 pretty cool if he is. Yeah, Jakob. 943 00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:41,680 Yeah, I imagine we'll. Be at this is our weekly Jakob 944 00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,120 being a Brits and health update it feels like where? 945 00:55:44,920 --> 00:55:47,720 Or just update in general. Last week you gave the update 946 00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:52,560 about his Pokémon cards and then this week he posted another 947 00:55:52,560 --> 00:55:57,120 video. Kudos to Big Dog Media who is 948 00:55:57,120 --> 00:56:00,160 the production company that has been working with Jacob. 949 00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:05,920 Fantastic work, all 2025. For someone who didn't have 950 00:56:06,120 --> 00:56:09,960 necessarily, I think a big channel last year, you can tell 951 00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:16,320 he invested in bringing these guys in to produce and publish 952 00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:19,440 all of his content. And it looks great. 953 00:56:19,480 --> 00:56:25,160 And I love just sort of like the it's got his voice behind it 954 00:56:25,160 --> 00:56:28,920 basically. And that's not always easy to 955 00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,400 accomplish when it's sort of like you just have a 956 00:56:31,400 --> 00:56:34,280 videographer of a production company handling like an 957 00:56:34,280 --> 00:56:38,360 athlete's channels. Like Jacobs found his guys who 958 00:56:38,360 --> 00:56:41,800 he can speak openly with and they get it. 959 00:56:41,800 --> 00:56:44,920 And So what the most recent thing was this deer cross 960 00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:48,560 country video, which was like him writing in a there's also 961 00:56:48,560 --> 00:56:52,120 just sort of like him kind of trolling of it or just like 962 00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,720 being funny. He's he's he's like this isn't 963 00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:57,200 that serious, but he's going to make it like this overly serious 964 00:56:57,200 --> 00:56:58,920 thing. He's writing in like a diary or 965 00:56:58,920 --> 00:57:01,720 journal, like dear cross country until we meet again and like 966 00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,280 recapping all these highlights that he had. 967 00:57:04,280 --> 00:57:09,080 And so it's it sounds to me he's not doing world cross, which is 968 00:57:09,120 --> 00:57:12,280 a bummer. When's the last has Jakob ever 969 00:57:12,280 --> 00:57:13,640 done world cross? No right. 970 00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:17,200 Always European cross. He's always, I mean, he's a, you 971 00:57:17,200 --> 00:57:21,480 know, this year is the first time that an Inger Britain has 972 00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:24,120 not been on the podium at European cross country since 973 00:57:24,120 --> 00:57:26,200 2015. So. 974 00:57:27,760 --> 00:57:29,920 That's crazy. Yeah. 975 00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:32,200 Any podium, right? Like, not just. 976 00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,600 Yeah, yeah. Obviously age group as well, but 977 00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:40,400 yes, but Jakob obviously has been in winning. 978 00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,760 I just looked it up. Jacob has only competed at World 979 00:57:43,760 --> 00:57:51,280 Cross once in 2019 in the in the UU 19 or U20 race, and other 980 00:57:51,280 --> 00:57:53,920 than that he's just been European Championships. 981 00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:59,280 So yeah, it's gonna, I was hoping that he'd make the trip 982 00:57:59,280 --> 00:58:01,640 out to Tallahassee. I'm hoping we get like some 983 00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:04,040 really good fields for it. We'll be there. 984 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,520 We'll be doing some pre and post ratios I believe with with 985 00:58:09,560 --> 00:58:12,120 ASICS. Yep, we're partnering with ASICS 986 00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:15,800 there. Yeah, So should be, should be a 987 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,000 good one. I mean, that's always great to 988 00:58:18,720 --> 00:58:22,520 oh, actually we, we're running like a mass cross country. 989 00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:25,240 Like there's like a fun run version of like the world cross 990 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:29,160 country championships that we will be doing after the pro 991 00:58:29,160 --> 00:58:33,080 races take place. So they'll they'll have a first 992 00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,160 go headed and then a couple hours later, me, Mac, Eric, 993 00:58:37,320 --> 00:58:41,920 Aisha, Paul Hoff Mahoney and Audrey Allen will be taken to 994 00:58:41,920 --> 00:58:44,120 the same course. I think we're doing 4K. 995 00:58:44,720 --> 00:58:47,640 So there was a 2K option, but I told this team I was like, no 996 00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:49,400 one's doing 2K. That's too short. 997 00:58:49,720 --> 00:58:54,400 We got to do 4K. So that'll be that'll be fun. 998 00:58:55,720 --> 00:58:57,440 All right, let's touch on some more news. 999 00:58:57,520 --> 00:59:01,840 And I think this one was a big one that happened on late Friday 1000 00:59:01,840 --> 00:59:04,320 night, early Saturday morning. One of the two I I just don't 1001 00:59:04,320 --> 00:59:07,040 know time zones when I'm not on the East Coast. 1002 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:14,040 But the news was out that Olympic champion from Tokyo a 1003 00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:18,160 thing MO has parted ways with coach Bobby Kersey. 1004 00:59:19,600 --> 00:59:27,640 She and her husband have moved to Dallas and that's I think all 1005 00:59:27,640 --> 00:59:30,360 that we know So far. She hasn't announced like who 1006 00:59:30,360 --> 00:59:35,600 her new coach is. I think her old coach is in the 1007 00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,360 Dallas area. So she meant U tap? 1008 00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,800 He's at U tap. Which is 10 hours drive from 1009 00:59:41,800 --> 00:59:43,440 Dallas. I looked it up. 1010 00:59:44,160 --> 00:59:50,680 I did the math. So, so there's that and the lap 1011 00:59:50,680 --> 00:59:55,800 count had a really fun sort of open speculation as to like what 1012 00:59:55,800 --> 00:59:59,560 her next move should be. I thought David Melly did a 1013 00:59:59,560 --> 01:00:03,400 fantastic job with this where he presented a couple of these 1014 01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:08,080 different options and I'm curious to hear which one you 1015 01:00:08,080 --> 01:00:12,040 guys think is the best 1. So I'll run through them, but 1016 01:00:12,040 --> 01:00:14,600 but actually before we get to these options. 1017 01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,280 We kind of have to flashback and there has to be a podcast 1018 01:00:18,280 --> 01:00:22,120 episode or something where Mack has said, I think that like, I 1019 01:00:22,120 --> 01:00:25,480 think it may have been like after the 2024 injury that he 1020 01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:29,880 wouldn't just be shocked if a thing MO retires early, right? 1021 01:00:29,880 --> 01:00:31,600 Mack, you've said that in the past. 1022 01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:34,560 Yeah, I got in trouble for saying it too. 1023 01:00:35,200 --> 01:00:37,240 It wasn't, it wasn't very well received. 1024 01:00:38,200 --> 01:00:42,000 But yeah, it's, I think especially with a lot of these 1025 01:00:42,000 --> 01:00:47,480 stars, there's a lot of pressure, just external pressure 1026 01:00:47,480 --> 01:00:52,120 on them from fans and coaches and and peers to like just keep 1027 01:00:52,120 --> 01:00:56,760 going. And there's not that many 1028 01:00:56,760 --> 01:01:02,400 athletes that can sustain that type of that training of just 1029 01:01:02,400 --> 01:01:06,080 exposure to like the public for, for that long. 1030 01:01:06,600 --> 01:01:09,640 And like the, the, you know, someone like Sydney can do it. 1031 01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,840 Someone like Jakob can do it. And, and they want to, they want 1032 01:01:12,840 --> 01:01:16,240 to be that person. Not everyone wants to be that 1033 01:01:16,240 --> 01:01:19,160 person. And, you know, we don't know 1034 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,120 everything that's going on behind the scenes with the thing 1035 01:01:22,120 --> 01:01:26,800 MO, but like she, she, she kind of already did everything, you 1036 01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,960 know, And so like the expectation that she like 1037 01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,480 continues to keep doing it for the next 10 years. 1038 01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,480 I get that. It's like that's a natural, you 1039 01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,320 know, thought for fans, but like, if you're thinking about 1040 01:01:39,360 --> 01:01:42,840 the person and the individual, not everyone wants to do that. 1041 01:01:43,040 --> 01:01:47,640 And yeah, it's just a situation where, I don't know, it's just 1042 01:01:47,640 --> 01:01:49,160 kind of the vibe and feel that I got that. 1043 01:01:49,160 --> 01:01:51,760 It's like, oh, she doesn't look like she's having fun out there. 1044 01:01:51,920 --> 01:01:54,240 And you can't like, everyone's different. 1045 01:01:54,520 --> 01:01:57,560 Like, yeah, it sucks because she's so talent and she's so 1046 01:01:57,560 --> 01:02:01,520 good and so wonderful to watch. When you watch a race, it's 1047 01:02:01,520 --> 01:02:03,840 like, I don't know if she's having fun anymore. 1048 01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:06,920 And like, you can't expect someone, regardless of how good 1049 01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:10,320 they are, to just like keep doing something that appears to 1050 01:02:10,320 --> 01:02:14,800 be borderline miserable on on the big stage. 1051 01:02:14,800 --> 01:02:17,720 So yeah, I mean that that that's just like kind of the vibe and 1052 01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:21,200 feeling I got from the outside. And I'm not saying she's 1053 01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,440 retiring right now, but you know what? 1054 01:02:24,520 --> 01:02:28,760 There's been other athletes previously that have kind of 1055 01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:30,920 like written out a contract because you're still getting 1056 01:02:30,920 --> 01:02:34,600 paid and you do that to the end of the contract and then you you 1057 01:02:34,600 --> 01:02:38,840 go do something else. Yeah, and it kind of you can 1058 01:02:38,840 --> 01:02:42,720 infer what you what you want out of like how an athlete presents 1059 01:02:42,720 --> 01:02:46,560 themselves on the track. And but it's it's and it goes, I 1060 01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:49,520 think a little bit beyond just sort of like inferring and 1061 01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:50,960 thinking, Oh, she doesn't look happy. 1062 01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,800 Like, you know, looking happy can look different on on so many 1063 01:02:54,880 --> 01:02:57,720 people. But she did actually to kind of 1064 01:02:57,720 --> 01:03:00,960 back up Max point a little bit. If you go back and I might be on 1065 01:03:00,960 --> 01:03:04,680 our YouTube channel, Prefontaine Classic post race interview from 1066 01:03:04,680 --> 01:03:09,080 this year, she did say that it has been very hard to get the 1067 01:03:09,080 --> 01:03:11,880 joy back into running, especially coming off of the 1068 01:03:11,880 --> 01:03:16,560 devastating injury and just how traumatic the 2024 trials were 1069 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:20,520 for her. It was hard and she admits that. 1070 01:03:21,200 --> 01:03:23,480 So that wasn't really much of A secret. 1071 01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:29,160 So then when you couple that with just sort of the fact that 1072 01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:32,360 where where Mac is saying she's done everything. 1073 01:03:32,800 --> 01:03:38,720 She was what, 19 years old when she won the Olympic title at the 1074 01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:43,480 2021 Olympics in Tokyo. Then she goes off and runs the 1075 01:03:43,480 --> 01:03:48,960 American record 155 at the Prefontaine Classic to close out 1076 01:03:48,960 --> 01:03:50,360 that year. I was at that meet and I 1077 01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,920 remember just the relief she had coming through. 1078 01:03:54,960 --> 01:04:00,120 I think all of the Mixone tense and I think past like the the 1079 01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:02,720 content creator lounge, I think or what was loosely kind of 1080 01:04:02,720 --> 01:04:07,600 assembled at there at the time. And she was just so happy to for 1081 01:04:07,600 --> 01:04:11,400 that season to be done because it is just really heavy and a 1082 01:04:11,400 --> 01:04:18,080 lot on someone. And I think so then 20/22 she 1083 01:04:18,080 --> 01:04:22,200 wins the world title at in Eugene. 1084 01:04:22,200 --> 01:04:26,200 So now she's checked the boxes of Olympic champion, world 1085 01:04:26,200 --> 01:04:33,440 champion, American record. You run 155, and the next 1086 01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,640 feasible thing, the only thing you haven't done is run the 1087 01:04:36,640 --> 01:04:40,160 world record. Now the problem is in the 1088 01:04:40,160 --> 01:04:44,760 women's 800, that world record is no easy task. 1089 01:04:44,760 --> 01:04:48,080 And it's this mark that has been looked at in the record books 1090 01:04:48,480 --> 01:04:51,320 that people have had their skepticism over. 1091 01:04:51,640 --> 01:04:56,840 And now that you have young talent like the thing, MO and 1092 01:04:56,840 --> 01:05:00,120 Keely Hodgkinson, since 2021, there's just been this big, big 1093 01:05:00,520 --> 01:05:03,400 anticipation that one of these two will be the one that finally 1094 01:05:03,400 --> 01:05:05,760 knocks it off. So now you're you're living with 1095 01:05:05,800 --> 01:05:08,800 with that sort of pressure that yes, the medals were awesome, 1096 01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:11,120 but we want more. We want more out of you. 1097 01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:12,320 We want you to run it even faster. 1098 01:05:12,320 --> 01:05:15,080 So she makes the coaching switch to Bobby Kersey in November 1099 01:05:15,080 --> 01:05:18,200 2023. Kind of puzzled a lot of people 1100 01:05:18,200 --> 01:05:22,000 at first because, you know, he hasn't necessarily coached the 1101 01:05:22,120 --> 01:05:26,680 any top 800m runner. He's still a good coach. 1102 01:05:28,120 --> 01:05:33,000 And that maybe the thinking was a thing is going to go run more 1103 01:05:33,320 --> 01:05:37,160 4 hundreds and eight hundreds under Bobby because that was 1104 01:05:37,160 --> 01:05:42,720 what she was so good at when she was at Texas A&M. 1105 01:05:43,480 --> 01:05:47,000 And I think, I can't recall to my memory if a thing has even 1106 01:05:47,000 --> 01:05:52,760 run a single 400 under Bobby Kersey and instead Bobby's 1107 01:05:52,760 --> 01:05:58,480 trying to mold her to be this world class athlete in the 1500 1108 01:05:58,520 --> 01:06:01,000 and the 800. So 2023 ends up being a little 1109 01:06:01,000 --> 01:06:05,960 bit of a weird season where she goes and runs the 1500 at the 1110 01:06:07,480 --> 01:06:11,120 she runs both events at the US Championships. 1111 01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,440 She already had to buy. Oh no, no, she didn't run both 1112 01:06:13,440 --> 01:06:15,600 events at the US championships. She had to buy for the 800. 1113 01:06:15,800 --> 01:06:20,240 So she runs the 1500, finishes second, doesn't take the spot 1114 01:06:20,240 --> 01:06:23,120 for worlds. That goes to Sinclair Johnson. 1115 01:06:23,120 --> 01:06:27,400 She ends up focusing on just the 8 at the World Championships in 1116 01:06:27,400 --> 01:06:31,000 Budapest, and she ends up with a bronze, the first time at a 1117 01:06:31,000 --> 01:06:35,000 global championship that a thing knows something other than gold. 1118 01:06:35,040 --> 01:06:37,680 And that was difficult I think for her too, to also kind of 1119 01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:42,640 process when you're you were just undefeated and so good to 1120 01:06:42,640 --> 01:06:45,760 finally get knocked down. Like you got to learn how to, 1121 01:06:46,000 --> 01:06:49,880 you know, move on from that. And it didn't go so hot. 1122 01:06:49,880 --> 01:06:53,600 So then 2024 was this turbulent year in 2023 ends up even being 1123 01:06:53,600 --> 01:06:57,160 even weirder with the 5K that she drops out of and, you know, 1124 01:06:57,160 --> 01:07:02,320 running at like some D3 meet. And then it's sort of like there 1125 01:07:02,320 --> 01:07:07,640 was this ease back into, hey, we've got to slowly work your 1126 01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:11,240 way back to being a thing. And it didn't really end up 1127 01:07:11,240 --> 01:07:14,440 happening at the US Championships. 1128 01:07:14,440 --> 01:07:17,800 She makes the semi finals, doesn't make it to the final. 1129 01:07:18,280 --> 01:07:20,920 And I think at that point there was just enough writing on the 1130 01:07:20,920 --> 01:07:25,280 wall that you're just like, OK, maybe now that we are, you know, 1131 01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:31,680 2 full seasons into Bobby's training, this isn't working. 1132 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:33,440 So we got to go do something different. 1133 01:07:33,520 --> 01:07:37,120 And she's made the call to go to Texas. 1134 01:07:37,120 --> 01:07:43,480 Now what are the options? This episode of the Cities Back 1135 01:07:43,480 --> 01:07:45,800 Podcast is presented by Lollipop. 1136 01:07:46,880 --> 01:07:50,840 Fall has finally shown up. The air is a little sharper. 1137 01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:55,080 The light turns gold. 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Lollipop, the runner Soda. 1164 01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:45,000 Yeah, I was just saying I do think that that her her moving 1165 01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:49,160 on from Bobby is a good sign. And then so knock on Bobby, but 1166 01:09:49,319 --> 01:09:52,880 I mean, if she's recognizing, hey, this isn't working and I 1167 01:09:52,880 --> 01:09:55,880 need to change, I think that's a good sign for fans that want to 1168 01:09:55,880 --> 01:09:58,640 see her, you know, back on that world stage. 1169 01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:02,200 And also, this is all coming from a place of assumption that 1170 01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:04,640 she's been entirely healthy over the last couple years. 1171 01:10:04,640 --> 01:10:10,120 Like there's a pretty good shot that she just like also had also 1172 01:10:10,120 --> 01:10:12,600 on top of other things, hasn't been completely healthy. 1173 01:10:12,600 --> 01:10:15,680 And every athlete goes through that. 1174 01:10:15,680 --> 01:10:21,640 So, you know, if if there is a desire from her to get back 1175 01:10:21,640 --> 01:10:24,960 there, like she can, like she obviously can. 1176 01:10:24,960 --> 01:10:31,200 And I do think the switch in her moving does point towards her, 1177 01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:33,520 you know, wanting to kind of get back to that stage. 1178 01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,800 Yeah. All right, so a couple remote 1179 01:10:36,800 --> 01:10:41,320 coaching options if she's going to be based fully in Texas. 1180 01:10:42,240 --> 01:10:49,120 Joanna Hayes, potential option. Nike, there's the Raven Rodgers, 1181 01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:50,760 who's there. Sammy Watson. 1182 01:10:50,760 --> 01:10:52,960 Now, you could make the argument that it's a little too crowded, 1183 01:10:54,240 --> 01:11:00,120 so that might not be a good fit, but it is back in LA, same track 1184 01:11:00,120 --> 01:11:03,080 that you'd be practicing on. So that could be an option. 1185 01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:06,680 I'm going through what David outlined in in the lab count, 1186 01:11:07,080 --> 01:11:13,240 Diljit Taylor, who has Nike athletes Swoosh TC connection. 1187 01:11:14,760 --> 01:11:19,400 I mean, great success right now with Jane Hennigren at at BYU. 1188 01:11:20,080 --> 01:11:25,120 But in the 800 stable, you do have Megan Hunter who is right 1189 01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:27,600 behind a thing on the all time list. 1190 01:11:27,600 --> 01:11:31,760 So there's some good 800 meter prowess there. 1191 01:11:33,600 --> 01:11:36,880 Derek Thompson out in Philly who's coached Ajay, NIA Aikens, 1192 01:11:36,880 --> 01:11:41,000 Charlene Lipsey. David went as far as like, hey, 1193 01:11:41,200 --> 01:11:44,120 what if you flew out and relocated out to the UK and 1194 01:11:44,120 --> 01:11:47,840 joined M11 track club? I don't think that will happen 1195 01:11:47,840 --> 01:11:54,280 because that'd be sort of like when the Yankees got Alex 1196 01:11:54,280 --> 01:11:57,880 Rodriguez and people were thinking, OK, now a rod is the 1197 01:11:57,880 --> 01:12:00,680 top star over Jeter. No, Jeter's always going to be 1198 01:12:00,680 --> 01:12:04,600 #1 Keeley will always be like their number one priority. 1199 01:12:04,600 --> 01:12:09,960 So it is a crazy suggestion to make, but and I would put that 1200 01:12:09,960 --> 01:12:14,160 as a very low percentage would be a lot of fun to watch, but 1201 01:12:14,600 --> 01:12:15,920 don't think that's going to happen. 1202 01:12:15,960 --> 01:12:20,880 So then you bring in like other college based training groups 1203 01:12:20,880 --> 01:12:25,160 where he got Texas A&M coach or or her coach from Texas A&M. 1204 01:12:25,160 --> 01:12:27,520 Milton Mallard is now at Arizona State. 1205 01:12:27,880 --> 01:12:30,480 Yeah, sorry, he moved again this summer so I thought he was at U. 1206 01:12:30,600 --> 01:12:33,040 He was at U Tech last year. He's now at ASU. 1207 01:12:33,440 --> 01:12:36,560 And then you got the Johnson brothers over at Arkansas. 1208 01:12:37,000 --> 01:12:38,520 That could be another potential option. 1209 01:12:38,720 --> 01:12:41,960 I was thinking a little bit more outside of what it was here in 1210 01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:45,640 the lap count, but Julie Benson's got an amazing group 1211 01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:51,560 would be a lot of fun then for Nikki Hiltz to be training 1212 01:12:51,560 --> 01:12:55,360 alongside a thing. MO don't know if that one's 1213 01:12:55,360 --> 01:13:00,760 possible, and then another one which I think has more the 1214 01:13:00,760 --> 01:13:04,560 closest Texas connection. If even if you did like a Google 1215 01:13:04,560 --> 01:13:09,680 search for professional 800 meter coach near me on your 1216 01:13:09,680 --> 01:13:13,120 phone and you're a thing and you're sitting in Texas, the 1217 01:13:13,120 --> 01:13:16,720 closest person who may come up is Cooper Luckenhouse's coach, 1218 01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:25,120 Chris Capo, which then you have Cooper Luckenhouse, the Nike pro 1219 01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,880 high schooler training alongside a thing MO that's fun too. 1220 01:13:29,880 --> 01:13:35,320 So I mean, regardless of where she goes, like it's, it's, it 1221 01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,640 makes for interesting fodder and you, you will pay attention in 1222 01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:43,440 2025 or 2026 as to just like how the experiment plays out. 1223 01:13:43,440 --> 01:13:46,200 So what do you think is the best option Preet? 1224 01:13:46,200 --> 01:13:47,840 And then I want to hear Max thoughts. 1225 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:51,560 I'm going to throw another wild one out there, Justin Rinaldi, 1226 01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:53,720 who? Oh, yes, obviously he's one of 1227 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:55,040 the best day intermediate coaches in the world. 1228 01:13:55,040 --> 01:13:59,160 Obviously he's mostly known for coaching men, but he's one of 1229 01:13:59,160 --> 01:14:00,520 the best day intermediate coaches in the world. 1230 01:14:00,520 --> 01:14:03,120 And he he tweeted about it. Yeah, he tweeted about it. 1231 01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:05,280 He also. Yeah, this this was really funny 1232 01:14:05,280 --> 01:14:07,800 that. So this this too, there's Justin 1233 01:14:07,800 --> 01:14:10,800 Rinaldi and he and he's obviously can coach people 1234 01:14:10,800 --> 01:14:14,360 remotely as he proved with with Josh Howey quite successfully. 1235 01:14:14,720 --> 01:14:18,320 And then the other one was Laurent Mobley from Cabal's 1236 01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:22,520 coach, who also replied to the tweet and said, because Justin 1237 01:14:22,520 --> 01:14:27,320 Rinaldi said come join me if you want to run 1153 or 1:54. 1238 01:14:28,440 --> 01:14:31,640 And Laurent Mobley said, Oh no, come join us if you want to run 1239 01:14:31,640 --> 01:14:37,360 153 and 48 seconds of the 400 and, and I mean, you know, 1240 01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:40,440 training alongside Fabric of all, that'd be fun. 1241 01:14:41,640 --> 01:14:48,720 But so who are you going with? I I I to be honest, I my my, if 1242 01:14:48,720 --> 01:14:53,160 I were to have to put money on it, I would bet that 2026 she 1243 01:14:53,160 --> 01:14:57,160 takes a year out and then she comes, which which is a non 1244 01:14:57,160 --> 01:15:01,040 answer I know. And then 20272028 she comes back 1245 01:15:01,320 --> 01:15:05,240 to to try and make LA Olympics. I because I think there's no 1246 01:15:05,480 --> 01:15:07,320 pressure on it. I think moving to Dallas. 1247 01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,800 I think that's where her obviously her husband is now 1248 01:15:09,800 --> 01:15:12,600 located. And bizarrely enough, I was just 1249 01:15:12,640 --> 01:15:14,280 sort of doing a bit of LinkedIn stalking my husband. 1250 01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:16,440 Turns out he used to work for the same company as I currently 1251 01:15:16,440 --> 01:15:20,160 work for. So he's an ex colleague, not 1252 01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:21,600 that I I sort of knew that at the time. 1253 01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:23,200 Obviously I don't really have much interaction with the 1254 01:15:23,200 --> 01:15:26,000 American side of the fan, but yeah. 1255 01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:29,560 So that was quite fun. But yeah, I think she might take 1256 01:15:29,560 --> 01:15:32,920 a break in 26. But if she does kind of keep 1257 01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:38,160 running a little bit, I would I would like to see her maybe kind 1258 01:15:38,200 --> 01:15:44,440 of going to Arkansas because I think it's her 400 meter kind of 1259 01:15:44,440 --> 01:15:50,000 strength that we that we kind of, I think she hasn't really 1260 01:15:50,000 --> 01:15:52,640 worked on that. And under Bobby Kersey, which is 1261 01:15:52,640 --> 01:15:54,880 bizarre given Bobby Kersey is clearly the best foreigner. 1262 01:15:54,880 --> 01:15:56,360 We're coach in the world right now. 1263 01:15:56,640 --> 01:16:00,240 It's bananas. Made no sense to anybody, I 1264 01:16:00,240 --> 01:16:02,520 think. But I think that would be good 1265 01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:04,720 to see. I think the fun part too, is 1266 01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:09,760 with this game, which is fairly common in other sports as sports 1267 01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:12,320 fans, to just theorize on where people will be moving. 1268 01:16:12,320 --> 01:16:15,080 It's like we're asking an adult person to pick up their things 1269 01:16:15,080 --> 01:16:19,200 and move to wherever we are just kind of playing just 1270 01:16:19,280 --> 01:16:22,320 hypothetical fantasy track with right now. 1271 01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:26,320 So yeah, Priest, just like, yeah, pick up your things and 1272 01:16:26,320 --> 01:16:29,120 move to Fayetteville. Well. 1273 01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,440 I, I did try this one out. This is, this is also, it's like 1274 01:16:31,440 --> 01:16:33,840 a 10 hour drive, might be a short flight, but it's kind of 1275 01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:37,360 more, it's more kind of it's closer than some of the other 1276 01:16:37,360 --> 01:16:39,800 options. How, how badly do you want it? 1277 01:16:39,800 --> 01:16:42,600 Like, I think like people commute to work all the time and 1278 01:16:43,200 --> 01:16:46,240 who's the Grant Fishers coach I think flies out for workouts 1279 01:16:46,240 --> 01:16:51,880 every now and then from like Michigan to to Park City. 1280 01:16:53,160 --> 01:16:54,880 Yeah. Park City, Yeah, Park City. 1281 01:16:55,440 --> 01:16:58,520 All right, Mac, where? Where are you predicting a thing 1282 01:16:58,520 --> 01:17:02,400 ends up? Man, that is so difficult 1283 01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:07,280 because Dallas is kind of like a, it's a desert in terms like 1284 01:17:07,280 --> 01:17:10,800 right now it is in terms of like is there a physically a coach 1285 01:17:10,800 --> 01:17:14,240 nearby? So you're talking about remotely 1286 01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:17,920 and I think pre is probably on the money where this might be an 1287 01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:23,000 off year cuz I don't, it's just hard to see things happening 1288 01:17:23,000 --> 01:17:27,680 this year in Dallas, which means she's got to do a few training 1289 01:17:27,680 --> 01:17:31,320 camps and then also, I think for the first time ever, do a lot of 1290 01:17:31,320 --> 01:17:33,720 solo training. And she's always kind of been in 1291 01:17:33,720 --> 01:17:36,680 and around a group. And those are, those are 1292 01:17:36,680 --> 01:17:39,680 difficult things. I mean, just for fun, I like 1293 01:17:39,680 --> 01:17:43,440 Rinaldi, I like Julie Benson. I think those are both fun. 1294 01:17:45,360 --> 01:17:50,400 You know, would would Julie bring in another American, you 1295 01:17:50,400 --> 01:17:52,960 know, that would potentially disrupt another athlete's, you 1296 01:17:52,960 --> 01:17:54,920 know, chances at at making a team. 1297 01:17:54,920 --> 01:17:59,360 I don't know a lot of these a lot of the pro groups like won't 1298 01:17:59,360 --> 01:18:03,400 have competing individuals just just you know, out of respect 1299 01:18:04,000 --> 01:18:06,520 for for the the athletes on the team. 1300 01:18:06,520 --> 01:18:12,160 But let's go Rinaldi. You're going Rinaldi. 1301 01:18:12,240 --> 01:18:13,720 Yeah, let's just go Rinaldi. Why not? 1302 01:18:14,840 --> 01:18:17,360 I think the boring answer is going to be end up being that 1303 01:18:17,480 --> 01:18:21,640 she just goes back to like her college coach and he's handling 1304 01:18:21,640 --> 01:18:25,760 things. I think remotely I was even just 1305 01:18:25,760 --> 01:18:27,520 right he's. He's at Arizona State. 1306 01:18:27,880 --> 01:18:30,000 Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. 1307 01:18:30,000 --> 01:18:36,760 Like you go, you know, go do trips out to, to, to Phoenix and 1308 01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:40,640 then, yeah. I, I was trying to think of more 1309 01:18:40,640 --> 01:18:45,080 outside the box options, like who else is a coach with Texas 1310 01:18:45,080 --> 01:18:48,800 ties? And it's like, oh, Sinclair and 1311 01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:50,800 Craig Nowak, Craig Nowak's from Texas. 1312 01:18:50,800 --> 01:18:55,600 Do you move back to Texas and start a group and and base 1313 01:18:55,600 --> 01:18:57,640 yourself there? Just trying to think more on 1314 01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:03,720 like who's made 1500 meter teams or 800 meter teams in recent 1315 01:19:03,720 --> 01:19:05,640 history? I think the boring option ends 1316 01:19:05,640 --> 01:19:09,920 up being it's Milton Mallard that she ends up going back to. 1317 01:19:12,040 --> 01:19:17,000 But it would be fun to you know, play fantasy track with you 1318 01:19:17,000 --> 01:19:19,920 know, I guess it is getting to be that point of the year very 1319 01:19:19,920 --> 01:19:24,600 soon where in like 2 weeks a lot of athletes contracts end up 1320 01:19:25,080 --> 01:19:27,440 running out right. Like these things are built 1321 01:19:27,440 --> 01:19:30,760 around either Olympic or World championship cycles and the the 1322 01:19:30,760 --> 01:19:34,840 last day ends up being December 31st of that year. 1323 01:19:35,200 --> 01:19:40,720 And, you know, I wish that there was a way to know like who who 1324 01:19:40,720 --> 01:19:43,840 are the biggest upcoming free agents in track. 1325 01:19:44,280 --> 01:19:46,480 And then again, this is part of the reason why, like track 1326 01:19:46,800 --> 01:19:51,240 contracts are so secret. We don't have, you know, find 1327 01:19:51,240 --> 01:19:53,440 access to that information. I think the closest thing was 1328 01:19:53,440 --> 01:19:57,640 when do you remember this, Mac? When Nick Simmons, his contract 1329 01:19:57,640 --> 01:20:02,120 with Nike had expired and he posted like some shot of him on 1330 01:20:02,120 --> 01:20:04,120 the beach and he was like totally naked. 1331 01:20:04,440 --> 01:20:08,080 And it was, I mean, typical Nick fashion, like very. 1332 01:20:08,760 --> 01:20:12,040 Eye popping to for to come across a post like that. 1333 01:20:12,280 --> 01:20:15,200 And it was a badge of sort of like, you know, kind of at the 1334 01:20:15,200 --> 01:20:17,680 moment, like I think it may have been January 1st. 1335 01:20:17,680 --> 01:20:21,920 He's like naked free agent. Like essentially the message was 1336 01:20:21,920 --> 01:20:26,200 like, what logo am I going to put on my body starting the 1337 01:20:26,200 --> 01:20:28,040 following year? And it got, you know, it gets 1338 01:20:28,040 --> 01:20:30,240 people talking like, all right, maybe it's going to be this 1339 01:20:30,240 --> 01:20:33,680 brand or that brand and ended up being Brooks. 1340 01:20:33,680 --> 01:20:36,840 And it was a big deal at the time for them to sign a star 1341 01:20:37,000 --> 01:20:40,240 like him. And yeah, I mean, he was the 1342 01:20:40,240 --> 01:20:44,440 master of just sort of like getting that conversation going. 1343 01:20:44,440 --> 01:20:48,160 But we have no clue like who's. Yeah, I wish, I wish that stuff 1344 01:20:48,160 --> 01:20:49,080 was public. There. 1345 01:20:49,160 --> 01:20:52,040 There are some, there's some pretty big at least US names 1346 01:20:52,040 --> 01:20:55,880 that are up this year. Obviously that like we can't 1347 01:20:55,880 --> 01:20:57,920 talk about it. Yeah, obviously we can't talk 1348 01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:03,000 about it, but like it's, it's, it's an exciting time for people 1349 01:21:03,000 --> 01:21:05,280 that are like running well, if you know, if you, if you're 1350 01:21:05,280 --> 01:21:07,440 coming off a Goodyear and you're on the contract year, like 1351 01:21:07,440 --> 01:21:10,320 there's nothing better. You think that would be a good 1352 01:21:10,320 --> 01:21:12,240 thing or bad thing? You think the agents would hate 1353 01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:16,160 it and the athletes would like it of like, oh, like the free 1354 01:21:16,160 --> 01:21:22,760 agency tracker in track like. I think short term it'd be bad, 1355 01:21:22,960 --> 01:21:26,240 long term it'd be good if if everyone knows what everyone 1356 01:21:26,240 --> 01:21:28,120 else is getting paid, then generally everyone gets paid. 1357 01:21:28,120 --> 01:21:30,520 More no, I'm not even saying just like how much it's just 1358 01:21:30,520 --> 01:21:34,560 like, it's like how long and, or, or like who is up. 1359 01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:37,800 And because in that way, if we knew just sort of like the 1360 01:21:37,800 --> 01:21:41,480 length of people's contracts. Because for now, if I, I, I, I'd 1361 01:21:41,480 --> 01:21:44,880 presume this is an assumption. Most people if you're, if you 1362 01:21:44,880 --> 01:21:48,720 are not on your first contract, you're signing contracts that 1363 01:21:48,720 --> 01:21:53,560 will take you through LA 28. But if you are a young rising 1364 01:21:53,560 --> 01:21:56,800 star in the last year or two, you're signing a deal that goes 1365 01:21:56,800 --> 01:21:59,080 a little bit beyond that. So someone like Cooper 1366 01:21:59,080 --> 01:22:02,320 Lechenhaus has probably been signed for a deal that goes 1367 01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:09,240 through Brisbane 2032. Like if you are same thing with 1368 01:22:09,240 --> 01:22:11,720 like a Parker Valby or like a Grand Blancs. 1369 01:22:11,720 --> 01:22:17,760 I presume that those contracts go beyond LA, but they're. 1370 01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:21,000 Yeah, we have no idea, but it would be fun to start having 1371 01:22:21,000 --> 01:22:23,120 like a tracker. So you knew, like, all right, 1372 01:22:23,400 --> 01:22:27,400 this the 2026 free agent class is gonna be really big. 1373 01:22:27,400 --> 01:22:31,680 Like you got Jakob and Cole off the books or something like 1374 01:22:31,680 --> 01:22:33,360 that, That those are just not not true. 1375 01:22:33,360 --> 01:22:36,960 But those guys I'm sure are locked into their deals for a 1376 01:22:36,960 --> 01:22:38,720 bit. But like, wouldn't it be great 1377 01:22:38,720 --> 01:22:40,400 to know? And also just sort of who's 1378 01:22:40,400 --> 01:22:42,840 coming up on a contract year and then all of a sudden they're 1379 01:22:42,840 --> 01:22:45,840 winning medals or making teams and you're like price just went 1380 01:22:45,840 --> 01:22:48,560 up or like, you know, that that's why they're fighting for 1381 01:22:48,720 --> 01:22:50,200 and running really well. So. 1382 01:22:50,720 --> 01:22:53,680 It would be fun to to have like the public pressure on the 1383 01:22:53,680 --> 01:22:57,680 brands to sign an athlete that that the fans want them to sign. 1384 01:22:57,800 --> 01:23:01,040 You know, like it would be fun if whatever, just hypothetically 1385 01:23:01,240 --> 01:23:03,120 Jakob's up, you know, his contract's up. 1386 01:23:03,160 --> 01:23:06,600 And then people that are fans of his or fans of a brand could 1387 01:23:06,600 --> 01:23:11,520 kind of like get behind like, Oh no, switch to, you know, switch 1388 01:23:11,520 --> 01:23:13,200 to this team and this group and this brand. 1389 01:23:13,200 --> 01:23:16,880 Like that would be fun to drum up just as a a fan now but. 1390 01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:20,520 We also get like the we just. We're never gonna know. 1391 01:23:20,880 --> 01:23:25,400 Yeah, you get the photoshopped pictures of athletes in 1392 01:23:25,400 --> 01:23:26,840 different juries. I think the only time we've ever 1393 01:23:26,840 --> 01:23:29,240 done that was when Grant Fisher left the Bauerman Track Club. 1394 01:23:29,240 --> 01:23:31,720 And we were trying to infer like, where is the next place 1395 01:23:31,720 --> 01:23:34,960 that he was going? And we put him in like in a in a 1396 01:23:35,120 --> 01:23:37,640 Bauerman kit. No, no, he was already in a 1397 01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:39,560 Bauerman kit. We put him in AOAC kit. 1398 01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,120 And we were like assuming like, oh, his contract was up or 1399 01:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,160 something like that. So yeah, would be fun, but 1400 01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:48,960 again, like I. Mean thank you at it for I think 1401 01:23:48,960 --> 01:23:52,440 MO if her contract was up and obviously we assume it probably 1402 01:23:52,440 --> 01:23:54,600 isn't, but because Nike will probably have locked her in. 1403 01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:59,760 But if her contract was up, OAC with Seja, Akleka with a Amy and 1404 01:23:59,760 --> 01:24:02,320 Alistair Craig with Danny Mackey, who coached the Aikens 1405 01:24:02,320 --> 01:24:03,920 they successfully. There's a Yeah, see there's fun 1406 01:24:03,960 --> 01:24:05,840 options out there. There's fun options out there 1407 01:24:05,840 --> 01:24:07,800 with other brands for sure. When did when did? 1408 01:24:07,880 --> 01:24:12,920 When did she GoPro? In 2019, before the Olympics, 1409 01:24:14,720 --> 01:24:16,360 so. It means 21, right? 1410 01:24:16,760 --> 01:24:18,400 20/21 right? Or 2021. 1411 01:24:18,400 --> 01:24:19,680 Yeah, yeah. So I mean like she's. 1412 01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:21,640 She's still, she's still got years left then. 1413 01:24:22,720 --> 01:24:25,040 Yeah, it just wouldn't have been a contract that just rolls 1414 01:24:25,040 --> 01:24:29,160 through 2024, especially with how well she did in 2021. 1415 01:24:29,720 --> 01:24:34,720 All right, one final thing is obviously we were in Hawaii this 1416 01:24:34,720 --> 01:24:39,520 past weekend. Mac and I pulled together the 1417 01:24:39,840 --> 01:24:44,640 Honolulu Marathon Weekends Merrymile broadcast. 1418 01:24:45,640 --> 01:24:50,360 It was so much fun. I mean, I think I said it on the 1419 01:24:50,360 --> 01:24:52,680 broadcast. Thanks to the organizers and 1420 01:24:52,680 --> 01:24:56,960 David Monti for thinking of us for that opportunity that I 1421 01:24:58,320 --> 01:25:02,840 think this has been a race that for many years we'd always 1422 01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,720 wondered like, why can't we watch it, especially with the 1423 01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:08,840 names that it attracts? And then last year they tested 1424 01:25:08,840 --> 01:25:12,040 out the live stream and they got it down, but they didn't have 1425 01:25:12,040 --> 01:25:15,080 commentary. And so they came to us and came 1426 01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:19,440 for some ideas and we wanted to do more than just, you know, 1427 01:25:19,440 --> 01:25:22,680 slapping on, you know, 4 minutes worth of talking. 1428 01:25:22,680 --> 01:25:25,480 Like we, we did a pre show for it and then it rolled right into 1429 01:25:25,480 --> 01:25:32,200 the broadcast and it was, it was a nice tight hour of just of a 1430 01:25:32,200 --> 01:25:35,800 one mile race. And so for the people who, who 1431 01:25:35,800 --> 01:25:39,960 tuned in, it was, they were treated to a really good race. 1432 01:25:39,960 --> 01:25:41,560 The chase format is, is entertaining. 1433 01:25:41,560 --> 01:25:45,840 Now, I don't necessarily think every single mile race should be 1434 01:25:46,000 --> 01:25:49,200 done like this, but if it's a one off thing and the, and the 1435 01:25:49,200 --> 01:25:52,360 merry mile has done that, like they've they've got it down pat 1436 01:25:52,360 --> 01:25:56,360 where it's sort of like, OK, the women's field will go off 1st 1437 01:25:56,760 --> 01:26:01,400 and then we'll give them a head start before the men give chase. 1438 01:26:01,680 --> 01:26:05,280 And whoever is the first across the finish line will take home 1439 01:26:05,280 --> 01:26:09,360 $10,000. And this year the women were 1440 01:26:09,360 --> 01:26:18,000 given 31 seconds and Sinclair Johnson ends up ripping it and 1441 01:26:18,520 --> 01:26:21,280 comes away with the overall victory. 1442 01:26:21,360 --> 01:26:24,440 Not even close. I think before the next person 1443 01:26:24,440 --> 01:26:28,800 across the finish line was Nikki Hiltz and then after that Josh 1444 01:26:28,800 --> 01:26:35,280 Hoey was the top man. But Sinclair runs 421.66, which 1445 01:26:35,280 --> 01:26:40,480 is the second fastest all time and a new American record just 1446 01:26:40,480 --> 01:26:43,360 shy of Deriva Weltechi's world record. 1447 01:26:44,560 --> 01:26:48,280 There would have been another $10,000 bonus for that world 1448 01:26:48,280 --> 01:26:51,840 record. So 31 seconds ended up being too 1449 01:26:51,840 --> 01:26:55,920 much and I think Sinclair just ends up for next year. 1450 01:26:56,800 --> 01:26:59,560 You might end up having like a 25 second lead. 1451 01:26:59,640 --> 01:27:04,040 I don't think it'll be anything above 30 seconds again, which 1452 01:27:04,200 --> 01:27:06,880 makes it fun. I mean, we like we find out days 1453 01:27:06,880 --> 01:27:08,720 in advance, like what the head start's going to be. 1454 01:27:09,120 --> 01:27:12,760 It's the athletes start talking. We were in the technical meeting 1455 01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:16,880 when there were Pacers, which like that could be another thing 1456 01:27:16,880 --> 01:27:18,240 up for debate. Should there be Pacers? 1457 01:27:18,240 --> 01:27:22,760 Should there not be? But so Josh always coming off of 1458 01:27:22,760 --> 01:27:28,000 this world record in the 600. So he's clearly in great, great 1459 01:27:28,000 --> 01:27:31,680 shape. Everyone else in the field is 1460 01:27:31,680 --> 01:27:34,960 early in their their build for 2026. 1461 01:27:35,240 --> 01:27:40,480 So some people might be coming off of US Cross and others are 1462 01:27:40,480 --> 01:27:43,560 just gearing up for the indoor season. 1463 01:27:43,800 --> 01:27:49,280 So like yard finishing, you know, as back as he did isn't 1464 01:27:49,280 --> 01:27:52,400 necessarily a sign that Yarid isn't going to be in top form 1465 01:27:52,400 --> 01:27:55,720 when he runs the Wanamaker Mile. It's just that it's December and 1466 01:27:55,720 --> 01:27:57,880 Yarid isn't in peak shape right now. 1467 01:27:57,880 --> 01:28:01,480 Josh Hoey is. He's always in peak shape. 1468 01:28:01,480 --> 01:28:05,440 And so he requests that the pacer goes through, not him, but 1469 01:28:05,440 --> 01:28:07,560 his his father was in the room and it requests that the pacer 1470 01:28:07,560 --> 01:28:11,960 goes through in 154. Everyone in the room is like 1471 01:28:12,760 --> 01:28:18,880 what one person later on piped up and said to me, he's ruining 1472 01:28:18,880 --> 01:28:24,000 our vacation because no one is in that good of shape. 1473 01:28:24,000 --> 01:28:29,360 So that would be world record pace and they end up not hitting 1474 01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:30,760 it. They it ended up being I think 1475 01:28:30,760 --> 01:28:34,960 like too flat. Maybe through the through the 1476 01:28:34,960 --> 01:28:40,000 800 mark, the women they go through, I think the pacer was 1477 01:28:40,000 --> 01:28:43,320 like 210 with Sinclair just behind in 212, which is like 1478 01:28:43,320 --> 01:28:44,880 right on. Just sort of like the pace they 1479 01:28:44,880 --> 01:28:48,160 would have needed to hold the hold the lead. 1480 01:28:49,440 --> 01:28:56,120 But it it was a very fun race to watch unfold and a lot some 1481 01:28:56,120 --> 01:28:58,560 people ran really well. Donovan Brazier with a personal 1482 01:28:58,560 --> 01:29:03,400 best of 358 for the mile. He hadn't run a mile in a long, 1483 01:29:03,400 --> 01:29:05,840 long time. He told me that he's getting 1484 01:29:05,840 --> 01:29:09,880 ready for a full indoor season where he's focused on the 800, 1485 01:29:09,880 --> 01:29:13,080 which is a great thing to hear because the last time out that 1486 01:29:13,080 --> 01:29:17,240 he ran indoors was 2022. And if you recall, that was the 1487 01:29:17,240 --> 01:29:20,840 year that he was in on the 400 and he went to World Relays and 1488 01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:24,840 ran the four by four. He told me the blocks weren't 1489 01:29:24,840 --> 01:29:28,800 for me. So he's going in on the 800. 1490 01:29:30,280 --> 01:29:32,440 Same thing. Hobbs, Kessler, he ran well. 1491 01:29:32,680 --> 01:29:36,840 He's also getting ready for an indoor season. 1492 01:29:38,640 --> 01:29:41,400 So yeah, the indoor indoors is right around the corner. 1493 01:29:41,400 --> 01:29:44,720 We already had one BU meet. There's announcements coming out 1494 01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:47,160 about like the milroast fields. If you haven't gotten your 1495 01:29:47,160 --> 01:29:49,760 tickets for that. I always tell people it is the 1496 01:29:49,760 --> 01:29:56,400 best indoor meet to attend. And I think last I heard from 1497 01:29:56,400 --> 01:29:59,600 the organizers was that they were at like 80% sold. 1498 01:30:00,040 --> 01:30:04,600 So their tickets are going quick, and it's always one of 1499 01:30:04,600 --> 01:30:06,560 the best meets. We'll announce, I think, another 1500 01:30:06,560 --> 01:30:09,360 athlete who's competing there on Thursday. 1501 01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,120 And yeah. So, Mac, what were your big 1502 01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:15,720 takeaways from the weekend in Hawaii? 1503 01:30:17,040 --> 01:30:21,320 It was, it was a fun, fun week, fun little, you know, just super 1504 01:30:21,320 --> 01:30:23,800 pumped to not finally get invited out there. 1505 01:30:23,800 --> 01:30:25,240 But I never ran there as an athlete. 1506 01:30:25,240 --> 01:30:28,960 So it was fun to finally go, even if it is on, you know, in 1507 01:30:28,960 --> 01:30:32,120 this capacity. And yeah, it was a blast. 1508 01:30:32,120 --> 01:30:34,200 The guys that do the the production, this is their second 1509 01:30:34,240 --> 01:30:37,160 year. They're normally they do like 1510 01:30:37,160 --> 01:30:40,880 surf competitions. So doing a race like this is 1511 01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,120 something just like there are totally not used to doing and 1512 01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,920 don't have a ton of experience. But this year was a lot better 1513 01:30:47,920 --> 01:30:50,120 than last year. And and I think that they're 1514 01:30:50,120 --> 01:30:51,600 excited to do it again next year. 1515 01:30:53,680 --> 01:30:55,440 Like those poor guys in the truck. 1516 01:30:55,440 --> 01:31:00,280 I mean this is like BTS stuff but like all of the cameras go 1517 01:31:00,600 --> 01:31:03,040 like turned black and disconnected with basically like 1518 01:31:03,040 --> 01:31:06,640 5 minutes until gun time. So like inside the production 1519 01:31:06,640 --> 01:31:12,040 truck just absolute just on fire chaos trying to get everything 1520 01:31:12,040 --> 01:31:15,880 back up and online. So that explains to the folks 1521 01:31:15,880 --> 01:31:18,440 why the clock? Yeah, it's just, yeah, it's just 1522 01:31:18,600 --> 01:31:24,360 just absolute chaos in there. But yeah, it, it's just, it's, 1523 01:31:24,520 --> 01:31:26,320 it's hopefully we get invited back next year. 1524 01:31:27,160 --> 01:31:28,920 You know, it's, it's a fun little partnership. 1525 01:31:28,920 --> 01:31:32,120 Love all the, the, the organizing committee that we 1526 01:31:32,120 --> 01:31:35,800 worked with, you know, shout out to David, Monty, David and Jane 1527 01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:39,040 Monty for, you know, kind of being our, our connect boots on 1528 01:31:39,040 --> 01:31:42,680 the ground there. Yeah, it was a blast. 1529 01:31:42,680 --> 01:31:44,480 And I love, I do love the chase format. 1530 01:31:44,480 --> 01:31:49,400 And as you said, like, yeah, not every race, but it's a lot of 1531 01:31:50,520 --> 01:31:52,960 there's so much that go just goes into that 4 1/2 minutes. 1532 01:31:53,000 --> 01:31:55,760 I almost wish that there were more races for us to cover and 1533 01:31:55,760 --> 01:31:59,760 for like broadcast to show just so we can pull apart kind of all 1534 01:31:59,760 --> 01:32:04,240 of the work that goes into, you know, getting the road shut down 1535 01:32:04,240 --> 01:32:07,600 and barricades up, start finish lines, all the all the camera 1536 01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:08,960 gear that gets sent out there. There. 1537 01:32:09,400 --> 01:32:13,400 There's one for the masses race and then there's one pro race 1538 01:32:13,440 --> 01:32:17,400 and it's just over instantly. So I wish there was a little bit 1539 01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:21,920 more kind of on either side that that we could show, but as is, 1540 01:32:21,920 --> 01:32:24,760 it's just an incredibly exciting 4 1/2 minutes. 1541 01:32:25,000 --> 01:32:27,760 The influencer mile, right? Like that's what needs to happen 1542 01:32:27,760 --> 01:32:30,720 before the pros hit the hit the yeah. 1543 01:32:31,040 --> 01:32:37,520 Roads a more like defined bee heat or and or like a influencer 1544 01:32:37,520 --> 01:32:42,720 mile the MasterCard wave. We could do, Yeah. 1545 01:32:42,720 --> 01:32:45,320 Next year it's MasterCard wave influencers. 1546 01:32:45,320 --> 01:32:49,320 Then you give them a head start before you send the women, then 1547 01:32:49,320 --> 01:32:53,400 you send the men, and then you send Josh Hoey like the it's a 1548 01:32:53,520 --> 01:32:55,120 four. Oh my gosh. 1549 01:32:55,240 --> 01:32:58,160 Yes, that's OK. Yeah, All right. 1550 01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:00,760 Now we're working. Now we have like if we could get 1551 01:33:00,760 --> 01:33:03,000 50 people finishing at the same time. 1552 01:33:04,880 --> 01:33:06,160 That would be great. Yeah. 1553 01:33:06,760 --> 01:33:08,720 Try. Good luck to to me and Tony 1554 01:33:08,720 --> 01:33:13,440 Revis call him that race. All right, I think that does it 1555 01:33:13,440 --> 01:33:16,720 for this week pre what do we have coming up this weekend as 1556 01:33:16,720 --> 01:33:18,120 we start to get closer to the holidays? 1557 01:33:18,120 --> 01:33:21,200 We have the marathon project. And so at the tail end of this 1558 01:33:21,200 --> 01:33:25,120 episode, we're going to tack on an interview that I have done 1559 01:33:25,120 --> 01:33:29,360 with Ben Rosario. We will talk about the fields 1560 01:33:29,360 --> 01:33:32,640 for this year's race and in addition to just sort of like 1561 01:33:32,640 --> 01:33:36,800 the revival of the marathon project after its history in 1562 01:33:37,480 --> 01:33:41,320 2020 and what it served then, now it's back in a different 1563 01:33:41,320 --> 01:33:44,080 sort of form. So we've got that. 1564 01:33:44,080 --> 01:33:45,640 Anything else happening in Europe? 1565 01:33:47,080 --> 01:33:51,040 Not that I really know about. There's always that fast 5K 1566 01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:53,640 road. 5K on New Year's Eve happened somewhere. 1567 01:33:53,640 --> 01:33:56,680 The one where Beatrice Chabet broke the world record last year 1568 01:33:56,680 --> 01:33:59,640 around sub 14. So I imagine there'll be some 1569 01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:00,880 Rd. races like that. But. 1570 01:34:01,240 --> 01:34:03,680 But yeah, nothing. Nothing that immediately springs 1571 01:34:03,680 --> 01:34:04,360 to mind. Wait. 1572 01:34:04,480 --> 01:34:05,600 Prick. You think we're not recording 1573 01:34:05,600 --> 01:34:06,920 next week because it's Christmas? 1574 01:34:08,080 --> 01:34:10,200 Oh, no, of course we will. I think we need to do our 1575 01:34:10,200 --> 01:34:12,240 roundup of the year. There's lots to talk about. 1576 01:34:12,240 --> 01:34:13,280 There's always more to talk about. 1577 01:34:13,880 --> 01:34:18,560 There's always, I said there is, I believe Joshua chapter guys 1578 01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:20,640 running a 25 K, Tamarack told us. 1579 01:34:20,640 --> 01:34:22,440 I think running a marathon as well at some point. 1580 01:34:22,960 --> 01:34:26,960 So I think there's a couple of random things going on. 1581 01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:29,680 But yeah, we can. We can pick up on those if 1582 01:34:29,680 --> 01:34:33,280 anything interesting happens. Yeah, I'm mostly kidding. 1583 01:34:33,520 --> 01:34:36,240 We will have a couple more interviews to drop over the next 1584 01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:42,560 couple days for just with athletes, with coaches. 1585 01:34:42,600 --> 01:34:48,360 And so the podcast feed will be going strong into the holidays 1586 01:34:48,360 --> 01:34:51,200 and then I think it'll kind of there'll be enough episodes that 1587 01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:56,920 drop before December 23rd that will fill your time as you are 1588 01:34:57,240 --> 01:35:00,440 bundled up on the couch with your in laws, with your 1589 01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:04,600 headphones plugged in 'cause there's sometimes too much 1590 01:35:04,600 --> 01:35:07,840 family time and you want your little escape to the track and 1591 01:35:07,840 --> 01:35:09,480 field world. And that's what we're here for, 1592 01:35:09,680 --> 01:35:12,640 for you guys. So we appreciate everyone 1593 01:35:13,440 --> 01:35:19,040 listening and we will catch you guys probably next week. 1594 01:35:19,720 --> 01:35:23,480 So if not, definitely before the end of year and pre and I will 1595 01:35:23,800 --> 01:35:27,800 wrap up with some end of year superlatives awards. 1596 01:35:27,800 --> 01:35:30,480 I'll look back. So that's the plan. 1597 01:35:30,840 --> 01:35:32,880 Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next time. 1598 01:35:34,800 --> 01:35:37,560 All right, now we welcome on Ben Rosario, who's been on the pod 1599 01:35:37,560 --> 01:35:43,760 before as a coach, and now we get to welcome him back as the 1600 01:35:43,760 --> 01:35:48,440 man behind the return of the Marathon Project in 2025. 1601 01:35:49,560 --> 01:35:53,320 It's been a lot of fun, I guess, to look back and think of just 1602 01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:57,640 where the Marathon Project was in in 2020 and just what it 1603 01:35:57,640 --> 01:36:00,040 served in, in at that time in the running world. 1604 01:36:00,040 --> 01:36:03,000 It was a distraction. I feel like that so many people 1605 01:36:03,240 --> 01:36:05,560 welcomed. As, you know, we were all going 1606 01:36:05,560 --> 01:36:08,600 through the re entry into normal life. 1607 01:36:08,600 --> 01:36:11,360 I think post, you know, I think at that point what the COVID 1608 01:36:11,360 --> 01:36:13,560 restrictions started to get relaxed a little bit more so 1609 01:36:13,560 --> 01:36:17,200 that people can gather, but Rd. races were not fully back at 1610 01:36:17,200 --> 01:36:21,160 that point. So Ben, welcome back to to, to 1611 01:36:21,160 --> 01:36:23,480 the podcast and I'm so excited to hear so much more. 1612 01:36:23,480 --> 01:36:25,920 And, and I guess we're starting off with why you decided to 1613 01:36:25,920 --> 01:36:27,840 bring the Marathon project back. Yeah. 1614 01:36:27,840 --> 01:36:30,240 Thanks, Chris. Why do we bring it back? 1615 01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:34,960 So I guess you have to go all the way back to a year and a 1616 01:36:34,960 --> 01:36:37,880 half ago that summer. So that would have been the 1617 01:36:37,880 --> 01:36:43,160 summer of 2024. And I knew that I was going to 1618 01:36:45,280 --> 01:36:48,640 end my tenure at NEC Elite just because it had been a long time. 1619 01:36:48,640 --> 01:36:51,520 And that's how I do things. And I, that was the longest I've 1620 01:36:51,520 --> 01:36:52,960 ever done anything in my whole life. 1621 01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:59,160 So I knew that was coming and I was just trying to figure out 1622 01:36:59,160 --> 01:37:02,680 what I wanted to do next. And so I bantered a lot of 1623 01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:06,920 things about in my own head and with my wife back and forth. 1624 01:37:07,000 --> 01:37:10,240 And yeah, I think it was that summer. 1625 01:37:10,240 --> 01:37:13,360 In fact, I know when it was, I was sitting in a diner in Long 1626 01:37:13,360 --> 01:37:17,160 Lake, NY, talking to my wife and, and, and talking about, 1627 01:37:17,160 --> 01:37:19,960 well, what if, what if I brought this back, you know, and, and 1628 01:37:19,960 --> 01:37:22,960 she really felt good about it. She felt I would enjoy it. 1629 01:37:23,080 --> 01:37:28,200 And so I called Josh Cox, who had been a part of Marathon 1630 01:37:28,200 --> 01:37:32,240 Project 2020, Matt Helbig, who owns Big River Race Management, 1631 01:37:32,240 --> 01:37:37,040 my old business partner from my days owning running stores, and 1632 01:37:37,040 --> 01:37:40,520 he was in, Josh was in. And then we brought on Katie 1633 01:37:40,520 --> 01:37:42,800 Sutton. Katie's also from Saint Louis, 1634 01:37:42,800 --> 01:37:45,440 where I'm from, and she is the president of the Festival of 1635 01:37:45,440 --> 01:37:48,920 Miles Foundation. So if the listeners are familiar 1636 01:37:48,920 --> 01:37:51,880 with the Festival of Miles and that event and what it's become, 1637 01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:57,240 she's really been the driving force behind the, I suppose you 1638 01:37:57,240 --> 01:38:02,680 would say, climb to the very, very top of all the all the high 1639 01:38:02,680 --> 01:38:04,520 school post season meets for a first festival. 1640 01:38:04,520 --> 01:38:07,160 Miles. She's worked with Hoka to make 1641 01:38:07,160 --> 01:38:09,560 that happen. And so she's relentless. 1642 01:38:09,560 --> 01:38:11,200 And so I really wanted her on the team. 1643 01:38:11,200 --> 01:38:13,880 And so that that became our ownership GroupMe, Josh, Matt 1644 01:38:13,880 --> 01:38:16,120 and Katie. And we've kind of done 1645 01:38:16,120 --> 01:38:18,000 everything ourselves since that time. 1646 01:38:18,000 --> 01:38:19,360 So that's a year and a half ago now. 1647 01:38:19,680 --> 01:38:24,120 And here we are, ready to launch TMP 2 point O and and show it to 1648 01:38:24,120 --> 01:38:27,680 the world. So the there's we're very 1649 01:38:27,680 --> 01:38:32,640 clearly in this running boom, running boom 3 point O maybe I 1650 01:38:32,640 --> 01:38:34,840 think I would say, right. So I would say, I would say 1651 01:38:34,880 --> 01:38:37,040 yeah. It was 72 Frank Shorter was the 1652 01:38:37,040 --> 01:38:39,440 the OG one. And then what would you say is 2 1653 01:38:39,440 --> 01:38:43,840 point O2 point O is maybe? Early 2000s Oprah, Oprah running 1654 01:38:43,840 --> 01:38:46,400 the marathon. So that really was the second 1655 01:38:46,400 --> 01:38:51,280 boom where everybody felt, or I say everybody where the, the 1656 01:38:51,280 --> 01:38:54,600 marathon seemed more accessible to, to more people, more 1657 01:38:54,600 --> 01:38:56,520 inclusive. And so that was a huge boom. 1658 01:38:56,520 --> 01:39:00,120 And then I think this third boom has been generated. 1659 01:39:00,680 --> 01:39:04,040 Honestly, it has a lot to do with the, the technology and, 1660 01:39:04,040 --> 01:39:10,840 and I, I think also the, the need and the want for 1661 01:39:10,840 --> 01:39:13,640 experience. People are tired of looking at 1662 01:39:13,640 --> 01:39:15,600 their phones all day and they want experiences. 1663 01:39:15,600 --> 01:39:19,080 And so the run clubs that are popping up all over the country 1664 01:39:19,400 --> 01:39:25,720 and the the entries into these races I think are are sort of a 1665 01:39:25,720 --> 01:39:28,240 response to that. Yeah, I think like the the 1666 01:39:28,360 --> 01:39:33,360 pandemic definitely helped fuel. The pandemic fueled it, of 1667 01:39:33,360 --> 01:39:35,160 course. I, I think the pandemic and the 1668 01:39:35,160 --> 01:39:38,240 social media both, it was like, OK, we can't just be sitting 1669 01:39:38,240 --> 01:39:41,360 around all day and we can't be sitting around all on all day on 1670 01:39:41,360 --> 01:39:43,720 our phones. We have to do things. 1671 01:39:43,720 --> 01:39:45,160 And I think I think you're right. 1672 01:39:45,640 --> 01:39:46,920 Yeah. So we're in, we're in this third 1673 01:39:46,920 --> 01:39:49,600 one. And I feel like here in New 1674 01:39:49,600 --> 01:39:53,560 York, like I definitely feel it when it comes time to try and 1675 01:39:53,560 --> 01:39:57,240 sign up for any race, right? Like New York Roadrunners races 1676 01:39:57,320 --> 01:40:00,920 months in advance to try and sign up for even like a 5K or 1677 01:40:00,920 --> 01:40:04,600 four mile or like, it's kind of bananas to like, have to think 1678 01:40:04,600 --> 01:40:08,040 it's like, I've got to be. On this, you know, online queue 1679 01:40:08,040 --> 01:40:12,080 as if it were Ticketmaster for Taylor Swift tickets and then 1680 01:40:12,200 --> 01:40:14,960 there's only a small chance that you might get your spot for 1681 01:40:14,960 --> 01:40:17,560 those races and you know you're locking yourself in and being 1682 01:40:17,560 --> 01:40:20,800 like, all right, I got to be at this 5K five months from now 1683 01:40:20,800 --> 01:40:23,560 like before it used to be you could sign up you know, a week 1684 01:40:23,560 --> 01:40:27,920 or two in advance. And so there's the demand is 1685 01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:31,560 kind of crazy right now and in the marathon in particular, like 1686 01:40:31,560 --> 01:40:35,720 people have this fascination with it where yes, the six 1687 01:40:35,720 --> 01:40:38,320 majors, they've done a tremendous job of marketing that 1688 01:40:38,320 --> 01:40:41,320 and now it's become seven and eventually it'll be 9. 1689 01:40:41,960 --> 01:40:44,880 That's, you know, the big place that people want to go to check, 1690 01:40:44,960 --> 01:40:47,720 you know, all of them off and, and, and get that, that moment 1691 01:40:47,720 --> 01:40:50,280 with the big shiny metal. But then on top of that, I guess 1692 01:40:50,280 --> 01:40:54,160 there is a big curiosity by some people to try and go fast and 1693 01:40:54,800 --> 01:40:58,720 the opportunities for that, like the you might have to travel for 1694 01:40:58,720 --> 01:41:03,200 some of them, say it's Valencia or CIM and you know, there 1695 01:41:03,360 --> 01:41:06,480 Chicago's the the, the major here in the states that probably 1696 01:41:06,480 --> 01:41:09,040 draws the most people to try and go and run fast. 1697 01:41:09,040 --> 01:41:13,240 So when you were thinking of how to shape the marathon project 2 1698 01:41:13,240 --> 01:41:18,040 point O, like what are the elements of this boom that you 1699 01:41:18,040 --> 01:41:20,680 saw that you're like, OK, there is an opportunity here for us to 1700 01:41:20,680 --> 01:41:23,960 fit into the current climate of, you know, Rd. racing. 1701 01:41:25,720 --> 01:41:30,080 Yeah, I, I feel like I have a good sense of the consumer. 1702 01:41:30,280 --> 01:41:34,640 I mean, I sold that person's shoes for six straight years at 1703 01:41:34,640 --> 01:41:36,720 my own stores and two years before that at the Hansen 1704 01:41:36,720 --> 01:41:38,680 stores. So eight years of selling shoes 1705 01:41:38,680 --> 01:41:42,560 and then a decade of, of speaking to that consumer 1706 01:41:42,560 --> 01:41:46,560 through the NAZ Elite brand. And that consumer was certainly 1707 01:41:46,560 --> 01:41:51,920 the NAZ fan that the, the, the person who's really into the 1708 01:41:51,920 --> 01:41:57,480 sport and inside that bubble of people who are really into the 1709 01:41:57,480 --> 01:41:59,680 sport are the people who train really hard. 1710 01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:04,760 And some of them run 210 because they're professional and some of 1711 01:42:04,760 --> 01:42:07,800 them run 250. But they both train hard, right? 1712 01:42:08,200 --> 01:42:11,600 And the folks who train really, really hard and we're talking, 1713 01:42:12,240 --> 01:42:15,600 you know, it's a huge part of their lives, mentally, 1714 01:42:15,600 --> 01:42:19,120 physically, emotionally, getting up at 5:00 AM before work every 1715 01:42:19,120 --> 01:42:23,560 single day to run, you know, planning their year around their 1716 01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:25,200 training and their racing schedule. 1717 01:42:25,920 --> 01:42:29,360 Those folks who run, let's say, between 2:20 and 3:30, right? 1718 01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:32,160 So right now I'm talking about why we added an amateur race. 1719 01:42:34,600 --> 01:42:37,080 Those folks have opportunities for sure. 1720 01:42:37,080 --> 01:42:42,400 And you mentioned some of them, but at those events, their 1721 01:42:42,400 --> 01:42:45,000 experience is really no different than the person who's 1722 01:42:45,000 --> 01:42:47,160 running 4 hours or 430. And those people are awesome 1723 01:42:47,160 --> 01:42:50,040 too, don't get me wrong. But you know, you have to get 1724 01:42:50,040 --> 01:42:53,440 into your corral 45 minutes to an hour early. 1725 01:42:54,080 --> 01:42:55,360 You have to get shuttled to the start. 1726 01:42:55,360 --> 01:42:57,040 You have to be out there way early. 1727 01:42:57,920 --> 01:43:00,040 You know, you don't get any of the perks that the pros get. 1728 01:43:00,040 --> 01:43:02,440 You don't you get your own personal fluids bottles. 1729 01:43:03,960 --> 01:43:05,800 You get the same swag that everybody else gets. 1730 01:43:05,800 --> 01:43:12,160 And so we just felt like to your point about experiences and you 1731 01:43:12,160 --> 01:43:15,360 know, considering this boom that we're in, we felt like there was 1732 01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:19,920 a place to have a race for the people who train really hard, 1733 01:43:19,920 --> 01:43:22,920 run really fast and give them AVIP experience. 1734 01:43:23,200 --> 01:43:27,360 And so that was our mission from day one in terms of the amateur 1735 01:43:27,360 --> 01:43:29,400 race. And that's why we put a big 1736 01:43:29,400 --> 01:43:32,320 price point on it of 500 bucks because we were going to give 1737 01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:34,480 you personal bottles, we were going to give you Pacers. 1738 01:43:34,480 --> 01:43:37,080 We have pace groups and we're flying these people in and 1739 01:43:37,080 --> 01:43:40,120 paying for them to come in from all over the country, 2:20 1740 01:43:40,120 --> 01:43:42,280 through 3:30. Every five minute increment has 1741 01:43:42,280 --> 01:43:44,400 a pace leader, some some more than one. 1742 01:43:46,640 --> 01:43:48,960 Our swag bag is really cool. You're getting a backpack, 1743 01:43:48,960 --> 01:43:52,280 you're getting a pair of Hoka Rocket X threes, you're getting 1744 01:43:52,560 --> 01:43:56,400 a super cool quarter zip jacket and and a couple other little, 1745 01:43:56,400 --> 01:43:58,800 little things in there as well that are surprises. 1746 01:43:58,800 --> 01:44:03,400 But yeah, you know, we wanted to give AVIP experience to those 1747 01:44:03,400 --> 01:44:05,200 folks, basically treat them like pros. 1748 01:44:05,400 --> 01:44:08,160 That was our model for the gold wave. 1749 01:44:08,160 --> 01:44:10,600 So that's the new race. That's the race on Saturday, 1750 01:44:10,600 --> 01:44:14,800 December 20th this year. And then for the pro race, we 1751 01:44:14,800 --> 01:44:17,880 felt like there was definitely a place for a pro race in this 1752 01:44:17,880 --> 01:44:19,600 country. I mean, if you really think 1753 01:44:19,600 --> 01:44:23,560 about it and I, I got to be careful with my words here, but 1754 01:44:24,160 --> 01:44:28,080 there's really only three world class marathons in the United 1755 01:44:28,080 --> 01:44:32,640 States, New York, Chicago and Boston. 1756 01:44:33,080 --> 01:44:34,760 Now there is other awesome races. 1757 01:44:34,760 --> 01:44:37,360 Houston is awesome, CIM is awesome, Twin Cities is awesome, 1758 01:44:37,360 --> 01:44:39,760 Grandma's is awesome, and I've run a lot of those races and I 1759 01:44:39,760 --> 01:44:40,680 love them. OK. 1760 01:44:41,280 --> 01:44:47,520 But but in terms of depth upfront and times upfront, 1761 01:44:47,560 --> 01:44:50,720 they're not really on par with Valencia, as you mentioned. 1762 01:44:50,720 --> 01:44:55,040 I think that would be very fair to say they're not on par with 1763 01:44:55,040 --> 01:44:58,000 several of the races in Japan. They're not on par with 1764 01:44:58,000 --> 01:44:59,800 Rotterdam. They're not on par with 1765 01:45:00,000 --> 01:45:01,720 Frankfurt. You know, some of these races 1766 01:45:01,720 --> 01:45:04,280 that are available in Europe and in other parts of the world. 1767 01:45:04,880 --> 01:45:07,960 And I just felt like, look, I knew we weren't going to be able 1768 01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:11,600 to accomplish it in Year 1. It takes time to create a legacy 1769 01:45:11,600 --> 01:45:15,200 event, but I feel like there is a place for another world class 1770 01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:17,960 professional race on the marathon side in the United 1771 01:45:17,960 --> 01:45:22,640 States. And I feel like if we do what we 1772 01:45:22,640 --> 01:45:26,040 set out to do, which is have a great race this year, build next 1773 01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:28,720 year, even better prize money next year and so on and so 1774 01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:31,320 forth, that we'll eventually get to a place where we can be one 1775 01:45:31,320 --> 01:45:32,840 of those marathons in the United States. 1776 01:45:32,840 --> 01:45:38,760 That's equal to what you see overseas in in some of the races 1777 01:45:38,760 --> 01:45:41,720 that are just below the majors. Not trying to be a major, but I 1778 01:45:41,760 --> 01:45:44,440 think there's a place to be just below a major here in the United 1779 01:45:44,440 --> 01:45:46,280 States. So that's the gold wave race, 1780 01:45:46,280 --> 01:45:49,080 that's the pro race. That's, that's, that's how we 1781 01:45:49,080 --> 01:45:50,920 see it. And I think that answers your 1782 01:45:50,920 --> 01:45:53,000 question of, you know, where we fit in the landscape. 1783 01:45:53,360 --> 01:45:56,040 Yeah. And I think like it's still at 1784 01:45:56,040 --> 01:46:00,760 the heart of it maintaining what it served in 2022 where like at 1785 01:46:00,760 --> 01:46:04,240 that point, remember, like because so many of these races 1786 01:46:04,240 --> 01:46:07,880 have been canceled, athletes who were looking at, oh, wait, like 1787 01:46:07,880 --> 01:46:10,440 I haven't hit like this performance bonus that I was 1788 01:46:10,440 --> 01:46:13,480 like planning to this still provides at least like that 1789 01:46:13,880 --> 01:46:16,280 opportunity to try and chase it and and run fast. 1790 01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:19,480 And in addition to that, I feel like beyond this year, because 1791 01:46:19,480 --> 01:46:22,480 it gets a little wonky with no World Championships or Olympics 1792 01:46:22,480 --> 01:46:27,880 in 2026, that, you know, we look at those Olympic and world 1793 01:46:27,880 --> 01:46:29,920 championship standards and they're only getting faster. 1794 01:46:29,920 --> 01:46:33,200 And it's going to be important to try and find those 1795 01:46:33,200 --> 01:46:34,680 opportunities to try and run fast. 1796 01:46:34,680 --> 01:46:38,440 Or you know, if the marathon project gets elevated to a 1797 01:46:38,440 --> 01:46:42,800 status where there is, you know, even more points on the line to 1798 01:46:43,480 --> 01:46:47,240 get via world ranking like that, I guess those are things that I 1799 01:46:47,240 --> 01:46:50,880 think will come up in year 2, three, you know, down the line 1800 01:46:50,880 --> 01:46:53,000 for you guys, right? Yeah, no question. 1801 01:46:53,000 --> 01:46:56,120 And and, you know, I don't want to assume anything in terms of 1802 01:46:56,280 --> 01:46:58,040 your listeners. You know, the, the, the course 1803 01:46:58,040 --> 01:47:01,400 is very fast. I mean, in 2020, Sarah Hall ran 1804 01:47:01,400 --> 01:47:05,720 227 US men broke 210, which has never happened before or since. 1805 01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:12,080 The the course is on a resort and it's a loop. 1806 01:47:12,440 --> 01:47:16,160 And so that's the other thing the amateurs don't get in these 1807 01:47:16,160 --> 01:47:18,440 big city races, right? The opportunity to run on a 1808 01:47:18,440 --> 01:47:21,000 criterium course like you would see at the Olympic Trials or the 1809 01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:23,520 Olympic Games. There's a there's a rhythm to a 1810 01:47:23,520 --> 01:47:25,600 criterium course and it's totally flat. 1811 01:47:25,600 --> 01:47:28,080 And the atmosphere will be really intimate. 1812 01:47:28,440 --> 01:47:32,000 And I do think that that helps you run fast. 1813 01:47:32,000 --> 01:47:33,600 I really do. And I think you saw that in 1814 01:47:33,600 --> 01:47:35,720 2020. And so, yeah, to your point on 1815 01:47:35,720 --> 01:47:38,680 the pro side, this is a wonderful place in the United 1816 01:47:38,680 --> 01:47:41,440 States to run really fast. I would put it up, you know, 1817 01:47:41,440 --> 01:47:43,520 against any course. And I would actually argue that 1818 01:47:43,520 --> 01:47:46,320 it's the fastest course in the United States because of the 1819 01:47:46,320 --> 01:47:50,200 nature of it with with the, you know, predictable weather in 1820 01:47:50,200 --> 01:47:54,160 December. It should be 49° at the start on 1821 01:47:54,160 --> 01:47:56,720 on Saturday. And actually that's warmer than 1822 01:47:56,720 --> 01:47:58,280 usual. It'll usually be in the lower 1823 01:47:58,280 --> 01:48:02,320 40s at that time of year. So yeah, really, really awesome 1824 01:48:02,320 --> 01:48:05,800 weather. No wind criterion course, just 1825 01:48:05,800 --> 01:48:08,320 just perfect for running fast and, and it's legal. 1826 01:48:08,320 --> 01:48:10,960 You know, it's not a downhill course, it's not a point to 1827 01:48:10,960 --> 01:48:13,360 point course. And so your times count for for 1828 01:48:13,360 --> 01:48:15,840 national records and and Olympic qualifiers and maybe world 1829 01:48:15,840 --> 01:48:19,360 records down the road. I know you maybe have seen just 1830 01:48:19,360 --> 01:48:21,800 sort of like the bit online where just, I'm obsessed with 1831 01:48:21,800 --> 01:48:24,560 the 10K rankings and just trying to figure out like who's made 1832 01:48:24,560 --> 01:48:27,240 what team because it's so complicated to hit the standard. 1833 01:48:27,240 --> 01:48:30,040 But here's my sort of pitch. I think next year with there 1834 01:48:30,040 --> 01:48:32,800 being a World Championships in 2027, you need a 10K on this. 1835 01:48:32,800 --> 01:48:35,680 Cause like I, I, I feel like 1 common thing I've harped on 1836 01:48:35,680 --> 01:48:37,800 before is like Americans, especially in the 10K, don't 1837 01:48:37,800 --> 01:48:41,200 take up the chance 'cause it's not easy to go out to Valencia 1838 01:48:41,200 --> 01:48:44,600 or one of these Spain 10K races to try and run fast. 1839 01:48:44,600 --> 01:48:47,200 Because there's like, it's a lot to go out there. 1840 01:48:47,200 --> 01:48:50,000 And so we're, we're ended up tied to just, you either get it 1841 01:48:50,000 --> 01:48:54,560 done at the 10 or you're just dependent on like your world 1842 01:48:54,560 --> 01:48:57,080 ranking. So the road race back door to 1843 01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:00,720 the 10K standard or the 10K qualifying for worlds hasn't 1844 01:49:00,720 --> 01:49:02,760 been taken advantage of I think here in the States. 1845 01:49:03,760 --> 01:49:07,000 Well, you know, nothing's off the table down the road, you 1846 01:49:07,000 --> 01:49:11,280 know, I, but I do believe as a business person that you do have 1847 01:49:11,280 --> 01:49:14,880 to really stay focused, you know, stay focused. 1848 01:49:14,880 --> 01:49:17,320 And I don't think Chipotle should start selling hamburgers. 1849 01:49:17,600 --> 01:49:19,320 You know, they're very good at burritos. 1850 01:49:19,600 --> 01:49:23,200 So I want to make sure that if and when we add things, it's 1851 01:49:23,200 --> 01:49:26,280 because there's a really, really good reason and and, and not 1852 01:49:26,280 --> 01:49:30,320 just because, you know, a few people would like to try to hit 1853 01:49:30,320 --> 01:49:32,000 a standard. I think there's a little too 1854 01:49:32,000 --> 01:49:34,000 much of that in this sport to be fair and. 1855 01:49:34,080 --> 01:49:36,360 I know that's true. And and, and I'm trying to put 1856 01:49:36,360 --> 01:49:38,960 on a world class event here. You know, it's I'm not trying to 1857 01:49:38,960 --> 01:49:40,560 put on a track meet with a bunch of heats. 1858 01:49:40,720 --> 01:49:43,720 You know, I'm trying to put on a world class event that is going 1859 01:49:43,720 --> 01:49:47,680 to be really, really special and different. 1860 01:49:47,680 --> 01:49:50,960 And, and so could could something like that be coming 1861 01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:52,520 down the road? Sure, it's anything's possible, 1862 01:49:52,520 --> 01:49:55,640 but but right now I just want to focus on putting on an amazing 1863 01:49:56,000 --> 01:49:58,760 marathon on Saturday and then another one on Sunday. 1864 01:49:58,760 --> 01:50:01,040 And in between, we're going to have a really fun community. 5K 1865 01:50:01,040 --> 01:50:02,880 as well. Yeah, I guess like I also 1866 01:50:02,880 --> 01:50:05,520 realize that the marathon project 10K could be confusing 1867 01:50:05,520 --> 01:50:08,240 branding to to people when it when if that's the official 1868 01:50:08,240 --> 01:50:11,480 name. All right, one fun story maybe 1869 01:50:11,520 --> 01:50:15,640 is how did you find this course? Like people wouldn't think just 1870 01:50:15,640 --> 01:50:19,720 sort of Chandler, AZ like and and this resort. 1871 01:50:19,720 --> 01:50:22,680 But is there a story to how you guys came upon this? 1872 01:50:23,040 --> 01:50:25,800 Yeah, there is, There is. So when Josh Cox and I were 1873 01:50:25,800 --> 01:50:30,320 talking in the summer of 2020 about doing this, we knew we 1874 01:50:30,320 --> 01:50:33,000 couldn't do it in California. If you remember the pandemic, 1875 01:50:33,000 --> 01:50:36,080 California was shut down. California had caution tape 1876 01:50:36,080 --> 01:50:39,120 around playgrounds. So that was that was out. 1877 01:50:40,200 --> 01:50:42,520 So Arizona was really our next best bet. 1878 01:50:42,640 --> 01:50:48,400 And I was in Flagstaff, so it was easy for me to drive down to 1879 01:50:48,400 --> 01:50:50,560 Phoenix and look around. And essentially that's what I 1880 01:50:50,560 --> 01:50:54,320 was doing. I, I was thinking of a racetrack 1881 01:50:54,680 --> 01:50:59,480 of a Formula One type of track and I went to the big Phoenix 1882 01:50:59,480 --> 01:51:02,800 Raceway where they have the giant NASCAR event every fall 1883 01:51:03,800 --> 01:51:06,440 and it just didn't work. It just wasn't going to work. 1884 01:51:06,440 --> 01:51:08,120 I, I took Scott Smith down there. 1885 01:51:08,120 --> 01:51:11,480 We ran around the, he and I ran a mile around the, the Raceway 1886 01:51:11,480 --> 01:51:14,760 and it just, it just wasn't going to work for a variety of 1887 01:51:14,760 --> 01:51:18,720 reasons. And then there was a race track, 1888 01:51:18,720 --> 01:51:22,240 smaller racetrack here on this resort. 1889 01:51:23,320 --> 01:51:29,120 And so we went over there and in advance of my scouting trip, 1890 01:51:29,720 --> 01:51:33,840 Matt Helbig had scouted it out on Google Maps and he said, what 1891 01:51:33,840 --> 01:51:37,000 about just this road? Why do we need to go on this 1892 01:51:37,000 --> 01:51:38,680 racetrack? Look at this road, like, why 1893 01:51:38,680 --> 01:51:42,240 can't we just do a loop here? And so when I got over there, 1894 01:51:42,240 --> 01:51:44,520 the, the guy at the Rawhide Events Center who was sort of in 1895 01:51:44,520 --> 01:51:48,600 charge of the venue, you know, I just hopped on his Gator and we, 1896 01:51:48,600 --> 01:51:52,000 we rode this loop. And when I was on the loop, I 1897 01:51:52,000 --> 01:51:53,680 called Matt and I said, you found it. 1898 01:51:53,680 --> 01:51:55,440 This is it. We're not doing anything else. 1899 01:51:55,440 --> 01:51:57,960 This is totally it. I, I cannot imagine a place 1900 01:51:57,960 --> 01:51:59,640 better to run this race than right here. 1901 01:51:59,960 --> 01:52:02,840 And so there was. So we we decided that day when I 1902 01:52:02,840 --> 01:52:06,560 was on that Gator and you know, here we are five years later on 1903 01:52:06,560 --> 01:52:10,000 the loop again. It's, it's been fun to learn a 1904 01:52:10,000 --> 01:52:13,200 bit a bit about just sort of like marathon courses and like 1905 01:52:13,200 --> 01:52:15,920 how they're measured. And so like I for, for the book 1906 01:52:15,920 --> 01:52:19,440 that I'm working on, like I have a chapter that I think if it 1907 01:52:19,440 --> 01:52:21,480 makes the final cut, I'm I'd be really excited. 1908 01:52:21,480 --> 01:52:25,160 But it's on Sean Harnett and just sort of like how he became 1909 01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:28,120 Professor Marathon and. Just David Katz is one of them, 1910 01:52:28,120 --> 01:52:30,160 too, David. Garter Yeah, yeah, there's 1911 01:52:30,160 --> 01:52:33,920 there's sort of like this small group of people who are just 1912 01:52:33,920 --> 01:52:36,120 like the masters of of measuring courses. 1913 01:52:36,120 --> 01:52:40,000 And so then was the next step, I guess, recruiting David to come 1914 01:52:40,000 --> 01:52:41,680 out and measure it or how did that work? 1915 01:52:41,960 --> 01:52:44,560 Yeah, I mean, you got to go, you know, I, I believe in getting 1916 01:52:44,560 --> 01:52:47,440 the best people, right. So David is one of the best for 1917 01:52:47,440 --> 01:52:50,440 sure. And so, yeah, we recruited David 1918 01:52:50,440 --> 01:52:52,960 and he was happy to come out and excited and he did an awesome 1919 01:52:52,960 --> 01:52:54,720 job. And he's really, he's, we're 1920 01:52:54,720 --> 01:52:56,200 recording this on Wednesday of race week. 1921 01:52:56,200 --> 01:53:00,320 He's he's on the course right now measuring it for this year. 1922 01:53:00,320 --> 01:53:04,280 But yeah, that that was one of the first things we did was get 1923 01:53:04,280 --> 01:53:05,960 David and he he was really amazing. 1924 01:53:06,800 --> 01:53:10,440 So then what was the athlete buy in sort of like initially when 1925 01:53:10,440 --> 01:53:15,360 you announced 2 point O? Because I guess the pitch is, I 1926 01:53:15,400 --> 01:53:18,840 mean, it's so tough, right, when they have a bunch of options 1927 01:53:18,840 --> 01:53:22,800 when it comes to taking an appearance fee at a New York or 1928 01:53:22,800 --> 01:53:25,680 Chicago, wherever else that might be out there. 1929 01:53:25,680 --> 01:53:29,160 But when you started to put this on, on people's radars, I guess, 1930 01:53:29,160 --> 01:53:32,480 like, what was the driving point of the appeal to the athletes 1931 01:53:32,480 --> 01:53:35,400 this time around? Well, I would come back and say, 1932 01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:36,680 do they really have that many options? 1933 01:53:36,680 --> 01:53:39,040 Who's they? You know, I think the very, 1934 01:53:39,040 --> 01:53:42,200 very, very, very top people, yeah, they have some options. 1935 01:53:42,200 --> 01:53:44,480 But the next year down, man, they're getting shut out. 1936 01:53:44,720 --> 01:53:46,080 They're getting told no by New York. 1937 01:53:46,080 --> 01:53:47,400 They're getting told no by Chicago. 1938 01:53:47,400 --> 01:53:48,880 They're getting told no by Boston. 1939 01:53:49,200 --> 01:53:51,040 And that's not a knock on those three races. 1940 01:53:51,040 --> 01:53:53,200 In fact, that's they're a victim of their own success. 1941 01:53:53,200 --> 01:53:54,400 You know, everybody wants to run them. 1942 01:53:54,400 --> 01:53:57,880 But it's to my point about there being room for this event in the 1943 01:53:57,880 --> 01:54:00,040 United States. And so, you know, we knew we 1944 01:54:00,040 --> 01:54:03,040 weren't going to get the people who demand 6 figure appearance 1945 01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:03,760 fees. That's OK. 1946 01:54:03,760 --> 01:54:07,480 That's down the road, You know, but for this year, our pitch 1947 01:54:07,480 --> 01:54:09,960 was, hey, you can run really, really fast here. 1948 01:54:10,400 --> 01:54:13,480 You can set a big PB here. And it's a stepping stone race 1949 01:54:13,480 --> 01:54:16,440 right now. You know, it's very similar to 1950 01:54:16,440 --> 01:54:19,440 Rotterdam and Frankfurt in in Europe, which I've been to both 1951 01:54:19,440 --> 01:54:22,360 of those races and the people that win those races or do very 1952 01:54:22,360 --> 01:54:24,440 well then get the invite to Boston, right? 1953 01:54:24,440 --> 01:54:26,160 That's kind of how this sport works. 1954 01:54:26,160 --> 01:54:29,640 If you, if you don't know, and I'll give you an example, Alex 1955 01:54:29,640 --> 01:54:35,320 Masai from Hoka Naz Elite, he, he, he ran Rotterdam last year, 1956 01:54:36,600 --> 01:54:40,320 got 5th place and then this fall got fourth or third place at 1957 01:54:40,320 --> 01:54:42,880 Chicago. And sometimes you need those 1958 01:54:42,880 --> 01:54:46,080 races that are just like a step down, maybe just a little bit 1959 01:54:46,320 --> 01:54:48,720 and then you know, you're ready for, for the majors. 1960 01:54:48,720 --> 01:54:52,280 And so anyway, all those things were a part of our pitch, right? 1961 01:54:52,280 --> 01:54:54,320 You can come run fast, you can come try to win. 1962 01:54:54,320 --> 01:54:58,440 We've got a decent bit of prize money and you can set yourself 1963 01:54:58,440 --> 01:55:01,160 up for the future, right? And so we've got people like 1964 01:55:01,480 --> 01:55:04,200 Johannes Moschmann from Germany who's coming all the way over 1965 01:55:04,200 --> 01:55:05,880 and who just finished 11th at Berlin. 1966 01:55:06,000 --> 01:55:09,240 Hey, 11th at Berlin was awesome. But if he could win this race, 1967 01:55:09,440 --> 01:55:12,000 you could argue that that would be even better, right? 1968 01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:14,760 And the and even bigger stepping stone for him in terms of 1969 01:55:14,760 --> 01:55:18,240 building his brand and his profile moving forward. 1970 01:55:18,760 --> 01:55:23,280 You've got a guy like Thomas Brooch who's a Canadian National 1971 01:55:23,280 --> 01:55:26,080 champion, but the Canadians really struggle to get into some 1972 01:55:26,080 --> 01:55:29,360 of the big races and so they're just not quite as marketable as 1973 01:55:29,360 --> 01:55:31,480 the American athletes for for whatever reason. 1974 01:55:31,720 --> 01:55:34,120 And so great opportunity for him. 1975 01:55:34,400 --> 01:55:36,840 On the women's side, you got somebody like Paige Wood, who's 1976 01:55:36,840 --> 01:55:39,400 coming back from maternity leave. 1977 01:55:39,720 --> 01:55:42,320 And, you know, so sports are kind of what have you done for 1978 01:55:42,320 --> 01:55:44,280 me lately? So, you know, maybe it seems 1979 01:55:44,280 --> 01:55:47,080 like she hasn't done anything for a while, but there's a good 1980 01:55:47,080 --> 01:55:49,120 reason for that. And she's really ready to go and 1981 01:55:49,120 --> 01:55:50,760 she's ready to show her her fitness off. 1982 01:55:50,760 --> 01:55:52,760 And so we're excited about having Paige. 1983 01:55:52,760 --> 01:55:55,440 And then there's an athlete like Kellen Taylor who had a little 1984 01:55:55,520 --> 01:55:58,040 niggle before New York and couldn't do New York. 1985 01:55:58,040 --> 01:56:00,680 So now she's going to do this. And we're a great opportunity 1986 01:56:00,680 --> 01:56:03,560 for athletes like that as well. So I think we're really excited 1987 01:56:03,560 --> 01:56:06,080 about the field that ended up coming together. 1988 01:56:06,080 --> 01:56:09,640 And and, you know, each person has their own story, but I feel 1989 01:56:09,640 --> 01:56:12,000 such a connection now to all these people because they chose 1990 01:56:12,000 --> 01:56:14,840 us and they're, you know, they're part of the family here 1991 01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:17,040 our first year. We really want to give them 1992 01:56:17,040 --> 01:56:18,840 every opportunity to run very, very fast. 1993 01:56:19,520 --> 01:56:21,920 How does Paul Chilimo end up in the field? 1994 01:56:22,120 --> 01:56:24,080 Like, was that a cold e-mail from him? 1995 01:56:24,400 --> 01:56:27,080 Yeah, so Paul, sorry, I'm at school right now. 1996 01:56:27,080 --> 01:56:27,720 I. Know you're all good. 1997 01:56:29,760 --> 01:56:36,920 Paul was someone who came to us later in the fall because, yeah, 1998 01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:40,880 he felt fit and ready to go. So his coach reached out and we 1999 01:56:41,760 --> 01:56:43,400 weren't quite done with the field yet. 2000 01:56:43,520 --> 01:56:47,200 I think he just snuck in, you know, at the 11th hour. 2001 01:56:47,200 --> 01:56:49,920 But but yeah, we we were excited to have Paul and we are excited 2002 01:56:49,920 --> 01:56:51,280 to have Paul. You know, he's a two time 2003 01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:57,200 Olympic medalist and I, I, I think Paul is someone who can 2004 01:56:57,200 --> 01:57:00,640 win the race and we want as many people who can win the race as 2005 01:57:00,640 --> 01:57:02,880 possible. We, we definitely have a deep 2006 01:57:02,880 --> 01:57:04,960 field on the men's side where it's tough to say who'll win. 2007 01:57:04,960 --> 01:57:07,960 So that's that's cool. Yeah, when I saw him running at 2008 01:57:07,960 --> 01:57:10,800 the US cross country Championships and he did well, I 2009 01:57:10,800 --> 01:57:13,520 was I was like, oh, all right, So it's like Paul's back. 2010 01:57:13,520 --> 01:57:15,840 And The thing is with him in the marathon is he hasn't nailed it 2011 01:57:15,840 --> 01:57:17,280 right. But it might take just a couple 2012 01:57:17,280 --> 01:57:21,360 cracks to finally get it. So no, it should be. 2013 01:57:21,440 --> 01:57:24,800 And I, I just saw Nick Hogger this past weekend in, in Hawaii 2014 01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:27,640 supporting his wife and, and he had mentioned that he was going 2015 01:57:27,640 --> 01:57:30,360 to be out at the marathon project and giving it a go 2016 01:57:30,360 --> 01:57:32,480 there. So no, the fields that you guys 2017 01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,880 have assembled have been, are, are really good. 2018 01:57:35,200 --> 01:57:38,360 So then after that, I guess like another component that we just 2019 01:57:38,360 --> 01:57:42,040 saw at CIM and that everyone's kind of like riding this buzz of 2020 01:57:42,040 --> 01:57:46,160 is the, the OTQ and you know, kind of when the goal posts 2021 01:57:46,160 --> 01:57:48,960 stayed the same for the women and got a little bit faster. 2022 01:57:49,400 --> 01:57:53,480 I mean, I think, and I think I wrote about this in either the 2023 01:57:53,480 --> 01:57:57,320 lap count or in an Instagram caption or something like that 2024 01:57:57,320 --> 01:58:02,080 about just what happened in 2020 was we had these huge fields in 2025 01:58:02,080 --> 01:58:05,480 Atlanta that were awesome, made for an incredible atmosphere at 2026 01:58:05,480 --> 01:58:07,760 those trials. You guys have like the best day 2027 01:58:08,440 --> 01:58:12,240 in team history, probably top coaching moment for you on that 2028 01:58:12,240 --> 01:58:15,280 day. And then from there, once they 2029 01:58:15,280 --> 01:58:17,640 move the standards, I guess, like the fields got a little bit 2030 01:58:17,640 --> 01:58:22,760 smaller for Orlando and some of the women in particular, I guess 2031 01:58:22,760 --> 01:58:25,680 because that field was so big in Atlanta that had fallen 2032 01:58:25,680 --> 01:58:30,440 somewhere between say, yeah, well, I guess 2:39 and 2:45, 2033 01:58:30,440 --> 01:58:31,960 which was around the standard back. 2034 01:58:32,120 --> 01:58:36,320 Like back then, they didn't make the jump to meet 237. 2035 01:58:36,320 --> 01:58:38,680 And now we are starting to get some of those athletes who were 2036 01:58:38,680 --> 01:58:43,080 in Atlanta finally, you know, snagging the 237 as they 2037 01:58:43,080 --> 01:58:47,000 continued on in their development to and, and so I'm 2038 01:58:47,000 --> 01:58:52,880 anticipating hopefully bigger fields than Orlando in 2028 when 2039 01:58:52,880 --> 01:58:56,080 those trials happen, wherever those and might end up being. 2040 01:58:57,840 --> 01:59:00,720 And so I guess like you, you guys are only going to add more 2041 01:59:00,720 --> 01:59:04,280 names to that potential start line this past week. 2042 01:59:04,280 --> 01:59:07,720 And I guess what have you heard just from the OTQ hopeful crowd? 2043 01:59:08,400 --> 01:59:10,200 Yeah, that's a big part of our race for sure. 2044 01:59:10,360 --> 01:59:12,440 You know what we call our professional race? 2045 01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:15,000 Semantics in this sport are difficult. 2046 01:59:15,640 --> 01:59:18,400 How many professionals do we have making a complete living 2047 01:59:18,400 --> 01:59:20,760 off of only running? Well, only the very top people. 2048 01:59:20,760 --> 01:59:24,440 But, but, but we feel like it's a fair term for that race for 2049 01:59:24,440 --> 01:59:26,480 sure. Certainly all those people are 2050 01:59:26,640 --> 01:59:29,720 making a few bucks here and there, wherever it might be, 2051 01:59:29,720 --> 01:59:32,320 right? But yeah, I mean, we have in the 2052 01:59:32,320 --> 01:59:34,960 neighborhood of 150 people running that race, men and women 2053 01:59:34,960 --> 01:59:39,200 combined. 200 would have been Max, but deferrals and 2054 01:59:39,200 --> 01:59:40,560 withdrawals and blah, blah, blah. 2055 01:59:41,320 --> 01:59:46,680 We ended up with about 1:50. So yeah, a gigantic portion of 2056 01:59:46,680 --> 01:59:49,800 that 150 is trying to run 216 and 237, right? 2057 01:59:50,320 --> 01:59:52,560 216 for the men, 237 for the women. 2058 01:59:53,280 --> 01:59:56,080 We want that to be a big story. We're really excited about that. 2059 01:59:56,280 --> 01:59:59,840 We have 5 Pacers for the men's 216 group and five Pacers for 2060 01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:03,520 the women's 237 group. Just just McClain is leading the 2061 02:00:03,520 --> 02:00:05,600 Pacers for the women's 237 group. 2062 02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:10,160 The men's 216 group is awesome. Sidney Goudeboude is probably 2063 02:00:10,320 --> 02:00:13,080 the the the fastest guy of of that group. 2064 02:00:13,080 --> 02:00:14,840 That's pacing. But I mean, they're going to all 2065 02:00:14,840 --> 02:00:17,680 do a great job. I mean, Jess said she'll go 18 2066 02:00:17,680 --> 02:00:20,000 to 20 miles. So we're going to put a ton of 2067 02:00:20,000 --> 02:00:23,280 people in that race and we're really proud of that. 2068 02:00:23,280 --> 02:00:27,200 And we hope that next year we can have even more. 2069 02:00:27,200 --> 02:00:29,360 And then the next year will be kind of the last dance, you 2070 02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:31,160 know? So yeah, I think between US and 2071 02:00:31,160 --> 02:00:35,600 CIM, athletes have two awesome opportunities to qualify for the 2072 02:00:35,600 --> 02:00:39,320 trials and, and CIM does a great job with that as well. 2073 02:00:39,320 --> 02:00:42,640 And so, yeah, but I think, you know, the fact that we have that 2074 02:00:42,640 --> 02:00:46,640 many people and that we're going to also get, I mean, what did 2075 02:00:46,640 --> 02:00:50,760 they have 107 total qualify? We would love to be close to 2076 02:00:50,760 --> 02:00:52,400 that. So there's going to be almost 2077 02:00:52,400 --> 02:00:55,720 200 people qualify just from those two races. 2078 02:00:55,720 --> 02:00:57,360 So you're telling me there wasn't a place for this? 2079 02:00:57,360 --> 02:01:00,600 I think there was. And, you know, it speaks to the 2080 02:01:00,600 --> 02:01:03,680 depth of of not only the top tier in the United States, but 2081 02:01:03,680 --> 02:01:05,480 the next tier. And I think that's important. 2082 02:01:06,080 --> 02:01:09,960 Yeah, I think you guys will get the chance to boast that that 2083 02:01:10,000 --> 02:01:14,760 you had the higher percentage of your total field OTQ just by 2084 02:01:14,760 --> 02:01:17,000 nature. Of the smaller fields, yes, yes, 2085 02:01:17,000 --> 02:01:19,200 now it's exciting. I mean, I, I, I was one of those 2086 02:01:19,200 --> 02:01:20,760 people. So I totally get what that's 2087 02:01:20,760 --> 02:01:22,680 like and how big of a deal it is for them. 2088 02:01:23,080 --> 02:01:26,800 And, you know, the fact that they're getting personal bottles 2089 02:01:26,800 --> 02:01:28,840 and getting treated like this is a big deal too. 2090 02:01:28,920 --> 02:01:31,520 You know, I, I've kind of gotten to know a lot of these stories 2091 02:01:31,520 --> 02:01:34,400 over the last few months and, you know, just people from just 2092 02:01:34,400 --> 02:01:36,480 regular cities working full time jobs. 2093 02:01:36,480 --> 02:01:38,080 They graduated a couple years ago. 2094 02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:40,200 What is the term that everybody uses? 2095 02:01:40,200 --> 02:01:42,120 Living the dream. And, and you know, in a lot of 2096 02:01:42,120 --> 02:01:43,600 ways, it is a great time in your life. 2097 02:01:43,600 --> 02:01:46,520 I remember that time being in your 20s and being full of 2098 02:01:46,520 --> 02:01:49,240 energy and going to work all day and getting your run in at night 2099 02:01:49,240 --> 02:01:51,920 and getting up in the morning and doing it all over again. 2100 02:01:51,920 --> 02:01:56,080 And it's, it's a cool lifestyle and, and it only lasts for so 2101 02:01:56,080 --> 02:01:58,360 long. So we're, we're really hopeful. 2102 02:01:58,360 --> 02:02:00,320 Most people only get to one run, one trials. 2103 02:02:00,480 --> 02:02:01,880 I mean, that's the, that's the honest truth. 2104 02:02:01,880 --> 02:02:05,040 And so we're going to hope to to help or we're going to try to 2105 02:02:05,040 --> 02:02:08,120 help a lot of people get there. Where do you see the marathon in 2106 02:02:08,120 --> 02:02:11,960 general, like as an as an event going over the next couple 2107 02:02:11,960 --> 02:02:14,160 years? It's a big open-ended sort of 2108 02:02:14,160 --> 02:02:19,120 question just because of how we've just seen, obviously the 2109 02:02:19,120 --> 02:02:22,120 effect of super shoes in this major take off point where, you 2110 02:02:22,120 --> 02:02:25,200 know, the times are getting so much faster and, you know, the 2111 02:02:25,200 --> 02:02:27,560 majors are at peak popularity right now. 2112 02:02:27,560 --> 02:02:29,680 But like in general, just sort of over the next couple of 2113 02:02:29,680 --> 02:02:31,960 years, like where do you see just the event taking off? 2114 02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:34,680 I, I think, I mean, I mean, look, it's always been my 2115 02:02:34,680 --> 02:02:38,680 favorite event, so I'm somewhat biased, but I also really 2116 02:02:38,680 --> 02:02:41,920 believe it's the most marketable event and it has the most 2117 02:02:42,160 --> 02:02:46,520 runway. The to track it to me, it's a 2118 02:02:46,520 --> 02:02:49,240 totally different sport, totally different business model. 2119 02:02:51,720 --> 02:02:55,040 And I never felt like it was as valuable, as marketable as as 2120 02:02:55,040 --> 02:02:57,560 the the marathon because it's so much more relatable. 2121 02:02:57,560 --> 02:02:59,400 So many more people participate in it. 2122 02:03:01,400 --> 02:03:05,520 You know, golf and tennis really are akin to the marathon. 2123 02:03:05,920 --> 02:03:09,800 They're not akin to track that, you know, in my opinion. 2124 02:03:09,800 --> 02:03:12,560 And I actually, I would say that's just the truth. 2125 02:03:13,360 --> 02:03:17,280 It's not even an opinion. And so so because of that, we 2126 02:03:17,280 --> 02:03:20,920 have the ability to continue to grow the marathon in ways that 2127 02:03:20,920 --> 02:03:25,440 some of the other, you know, tentacles of our sport can't 2128 02:03:25,440 --> 02:03:28,040 really grow and spread. And, and, and I think it's 2129 02:03:28,040 --> 02:03:29,800 happening. You know, I really do, I really 2130 02:03:29,800 --> 02:03:32,000 do. When I go to, let's say I went 2131 02:03:32,000 --> 02:03:37,400 to the Phoenix Run Club group run last Thursday in Tempe on 2132 02:03:37,400 --> 02:03:42,000 Tempe Town Lake, and you know, there's probably 75 people there 2133 02:03:42,240 --> 02:03:45,760 of varying ability levels. And I think there's this 2134 02:03:46,000 --> 02:03:51,360 misconception that people that are in run clubs or that go to 2135 02:03:51,360 --> 02:03:56,160 group runs don't care or know about the sport at a high level, 2136 02:03:56,160 --> 02:03:58,600 but they do. And when you introduce them, 2137 02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:01,600 they like it. And a huge portion of that run 2138 02:04:01,600 --> 02:04:04,360 club is going to come out and do the water station for us on 2139 02:04:04,360 --> 02:04:06,600 Sunday at the pro race. And they're jacked and they're 2140 02:04:06,600 --> 02:04:10,600 pumped about it. And some of them only run 6 2141 02:04:10,600 --> 02:04:13,280 miles a week, you know, but they run, they did their distance 2142 02:04:13,280 --> 02:04:15,840 runners and they know the marathon and they understand it. 2143 02:04:15,840 --> 02:04:18,280 And so I would just say, I think it's going to grow. 2144 02:04:18,280 --> 02:04:20,160 I really do. I think, I think the Sky's the 2145 02:04:20,160 --> 02:04:22,480 limit for the marathon. And I, and I'm not a rainbows 2146 02:04:22,480 --> 02:04:24,080 and butterflies guy. I wouldn't say that about 2147 02:04:24,080 --> 02:04:27,120 everything, but I do think the main, I think the marathon has 2148 02:04:27,120 --> 02:04:29,160 a, has a, has a big runway ahead of it. 2149 02:04:29,760 --> 02:04:33,400 Yeah, no, I mean like this boom has is not even near. 2150 02:04:33,400 --> 02:04:37,960 I think it's, it's peak and it's only ushering in more and more 2151 02:04:37,960 --> 02:04:41,560 people each year. It's funny because like I, I 2152 02:04:41,560 --> 02:04:45,000 feel like people would like from the outside looking in. 2153 02:04:45,000 --> 02:04:47,360 If someone, if I told someone like, oh, like my podcast 2154 02:04:47,360 --> 02:04:51,440 episode with Ben Rosario gets more listens than an interview 2155 02:04:51,440 --> 02:04:53,440 with Noah Lyles, people would be like what? 2156 02:04:53,520 --> 02:04:57,040 And it's like, because marathoners are just that much 2157 02:04:57,040 --> 02:04:58,920 more appealing. I think we're, we're working on 2158 02:04:58,920 --> 02:05:01,000 it right now to kind of put together our list of like the 2159 02:05:01,000 --> 02:05:03,040 most listened to episodes of the year. 2160 02:05:03,320 --> 02:05:07,800 And many times like the top five tend to be occupied by Connor 2161 02:05:07,800 --> 02:05:09,960 Manse, Kira d'amato, Clayton Young. 2162 02:05:10,200 --> 02:05:12,680 And it's not because, you know, yes, they're, they're doing 2163 02:05:12,680 --> 02:05:15,800 amazing things, but they're, you know, way ahead of the likes of 2164 02:05:15,960 --> 02:05:19,280 Gabby Thomas or some of these sprinters. 2165 02:05:19,320 --> 02:05:21,840 And I think it's, you know, at its core, yes, marathoners, 2166 02:05:22,440 --> 02:05:25,800 people who do it recreationally are probably listening to other 2167 02:05:25,800 --> 02:05:27,680 marathoners while they're on the run. 2168 02:05:27,680 --> 02:05:31,160 But it's just, I think there is that that greater relatability. 2169 02:05:31,760 --> 02:05:35,720 So it's it's a good time to to get into the the marathoning 2170 02:05:35,720 --> 02:05:37,800 business for sure. Do you want me to say something 2171 02:05:37,800 --> 02:05:39,680 real controversial so I can bump up my numbers? 2172 02:05:39,680 --> 02:05:40,880 Or go for it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, no. 2173 02:05:41,440 --> 02:05:43,480 I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. 2174 02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:45,400 All right? So I think there was 1 fun game 2175 02:05:45,400 --> 02:05:49,840 that I just had with Fobble when I had him on on the podcast for 2176 02:05:49,840 --> 02:05:52,880 his exit interview. And you know, we were, we were 2177 02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:55,960 both Bill Simmons podcast listeners and fans. 2178 02:05:55,960 --> 02:05:58,480 And one of the things that he likes to do is I think it might 2179 02:05:58,480 --> 02:06:00,480 be when Gladwell goes on the podcast, they played like the 2180 02:06:00,480 --> 02:06:04,240 sports are like you get to make the rules and take control from 2181 02:06:04,240 --> 02:06:07,360 up above. And I had Fobble take over as 2182 02:06:07,360 --> 02:06:09,480 the tracks are and then the marathoning czar. 2183 02:06:09,800 --> 02:06:13,200 So your this here's your chance to take over as the marathoning 2184 02:06:13,200 --> 02:06:14,360 czar. Like, what are some of the 2185 02:06:14,360 --> 02:06:17,840 changes you would like to see in marathoning? 2186 02:06:17,840 --> 02:06:20,880 I guess I could even on the elite side of how it operates. 2187 02:06:21,480 --> 02:06:24,800 Babel's answer was, you know, that he thinks that there should 2188 02:06:24,800 --> 02:06:28,760 be a rule that only two of the majors get to be world record, 2189 02:06:28,840 --> 02:06:31,080 you know, races. And like, that's that's your two 2190 02:06:31,080 --> 02:06:35,640 and everywhere else. No more pacemakers for races 2191 02:06:36,040 --> 02:06:39,280 because it's like, let's make let's just, you know, you know, 2192 02:06:39,560 --> 02:06:42,280 flood this thing with talent and these are the two big 2193 02:06:42,280 --> 02:06:46,920 opportunities and let everyone just race at other marathons at 2194 02:06:46,920 --> 02:06:51,040 least like on the majors front. So what would be your take? 2195 02:06:51,040 --> 02:06:53,840 Maybe he stole it from you When? When you guys, no, I don't know, 2196 02:06:53,840 --> 02:06:55,960 I'm, I'm, I mean, I've, that's great. 2197 02:06:55,960 --> 02:06:58,040 I mean, I don't, I'm not surprised he gave a good answer. 2198 02:06:59,840 --> 02:07:03,320 Gosh, I mean, I'm so locked into my own event right now. 2199 02:07:04,440 --> 02:07:09,920 You know, I, I think that in this country, and, and I'll 2200 02:07:09,920 --> 02:07:15,000 speak to that because it's, it's where it's, that's the consumer. 2201 02:07:15,000 --> 02:07:16,400 I understand the, the best, right? 2202 02:07:16,880 --> 02:07:20,360 I think that in this country, you see what happens when a 2203 02:07:20,360 --> 02:07:23,520 number of American athletes run in the same place. 2204 02:07:23,800 --> 02:07:28,760 The hype is bigger and better. When that happens, Obviously the 2205 02:07:28,760 --> 02:07:32,600 trials being the best example once every four years, It's it's 2206 02:07:32,600 --> 02:07:35,160 unparalleled, right That the hype and the excitement around 2207 02:07:35,160 --> 02:07:37,680 that event. And then if you were ranking it 2208 02:07:37,960 --> 02:07:41,800 the over the course of any four year cycle, it's not like it's 2209 02:07:41,800 --> 02:07:44,480 one thing. It's it just depends right? 2210 02:07:44,880 --> 02:07:51,160 It it could be a Boston year where Mance and in his day Fable 2211 02:07:51,320 --> 02:07:54,800 and whoever else right like it where a lot of people gathered 2212 02:07:54,800 --> 02:07:57,360 in the same place to run. New York sometimes has that sort 2213 02:07:57,360 --> 02:08:00,160 of hype. It's I think the American stars 2214 02:08:00,160 --> 02:08:04,400 do drive the hype in this country. 2215 02:08:04,840 --> 02:08:14,720 And so my hope would be that our race can be a place where we can 2216 02:08:14,720 --> 02:08:19,640 get a number of those American athletes running against one 2217 02:08:19,640 --> 02:08:25,320 another instead of going over, let's say to Valencia and have 2218 02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:28,720 sort of an end of year marathon here in the United States that 2219 02:08:28,720 --> 02:08:32,200 drums up a tremendous amount of buzz each and every year and 2220 02:08:32,200 --> 02:08:34,400 that people can look forward to. So we get a little bit better 2221 02:08:34,400 --> 02:08:36,240 rhythm. You know, there's a there's a, 2222 02:08:36,480 --> 02:08:40,320 it's, it's a little bit chaotic. You know, there's no flow to it 2223 02:08:40,320 --> 02:08:42,880 because like I said, some years Boston is really hyped, some 2224 02:08:42,880 --> 02:08:45,680 years New York, some, some years Chicago, some years Chicago is 2225 02:08:45,680 --> 02:08:47,960 not very hyped. It just depends on the field. 2226 02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:50,600 And so I think if we can get a little more consistency in the 2227 02:08:50,600 --> 02:08:52,760 fields and maybe our race could help with that. 2228 02:08:52,760 --> 02:08:54,880 I don't know. I hope so. 2229 02:08:55,600 --> 02:08:57,720 I think I think that would be really nice. 2230 02:08:57,760 --> 02:09:00,760 And then I would also say I really are. 2231 02:09:00,760 --> 02:09:03,360 We got to have more prize money. I mean, we're committed to 2232 02:09:03,360 --> 02:09:07,080 trying our best to to increase each year as we go. 2233 02:09:08,040 --> 02:09:10,720 But some of these other races, I mean, Chris, it's been 20 years. 2234 02:09:11,880 --> 02:09:13,760 This is unacceptable. You know, this would not be 2235 02:09:13,760 --> 02:09:16,800 acceptable in any other sport. And so we got we have to get 2236 02:09:16,800 --> 02:09:18,840 more money in the sport and nobody wants to talk about that 2237 02:09:18,840 --> 02:09:21,520 blah, blah, blah. But I will talk about it. 2238 02:09:21,520 --> 02:09:23,440 We need more money. And I know that it's going to 2239 02:09:23,440 --> 02:09:25,880 appearance fees. I understand that, but that's 2240 02:09:25,880 --> 02:09:28,480 not understandable to most. And so we've got it. 2241 02:09:28,480 --> 02:09:31,880 We've got to find a way to make you should be winning half, 2242 02:09:31,880 --> 02:09:36,640 $1,000,000 for for winning a major because that's what people 2243 02:09:36,640 --> 02:09:38,680 see and people need to see that so they understand it's a 2244 02:09:38,680 --> 02:09:41,000 professional sport. So I would say those two things, 2245 02:09:41,000 --> 02:09:43,320 a little more consistency in the fields and a little more money 2246 02:09:43,320 --> 02:09:44,600 upfront. Yeah. 2247 02:09:44,880 --> 02:09:47,080 All right. So I'm not entirely pushing back 2248 02:09:47,080 --> 02:09:49,560 on like the idea of more prize money because I am in favor of 2249 02:09:49,560 --> 02:09:51,560 it. But do you think like, and this 2250 02:09:51,560 --> 02:09:54,320 is just sort of like raising a point because I just finished 2251 02:09:54,320 --> 02:09:56,760 writing a little bit of a chapter on this going back to 2252 02:09:56,760 --> 02:10:02,560 just sort of when it was $500,000 for like the world, the 2253 02:10:02,840 --> 02:10:06,400 the the majors like, and they had like their series winner. 2254 02:10:07,080 --> 02:10:10,720 It like there was the years where Lilia Shobakova ran away 2255 02:10:10,720 --> 02:10:14,520 with, you know, $500,000 in 2010 and then in 2011 and then comes 2256 02:10:14,520 --> 02:10:17,800 back and test positive that that there are dangers to just sort 2257 02:10:17,800 --> 02:10:21,040 of like the big, big prize purses with doping like. 2258 02:10:21,120 --> 02:10:24,080 But then at the same time it's just sort of more testing and, 2259 02:10:24,120 --> 02:10:26,440 and, and, and all that would also solve it too. 2260 02:10:26,440 --> 02:10:29,920 So like is there like you're kind of, I guess also you run 2261 02:10:29,920 --> 02:10:33,120 that risk, but if you put in the measures in place, then you. 2262 02:10:33,200 --> 02:10:35,080 Yeah, but would mitigate. It I mean, that's that's gonna 2263 02:10:35,080 --> 02:10:36,880 be that's the case now though yeah. 2264 02:10:37,120 --> 02:10:39,440 What's the difference? I, I, I mean, I still want more 2265 02:10:39,440 --> 02:10:43,960 money, Yeah, in, in the sport and, and yeah, I want the sport 2266 02:10:43,960 --> 02:10:46,320 to have a higher profile. And and that that, that that's 2267 02:10:46,320 --> 02:10:49,200 not a great example in my opinion, because that that was a 2268 02:10:49,200 --> 02:10:51,360 bit convoluted and hard to understand it. 2269 02:10:51,440 --> 02:10:53,760 Was when you have a series. You have a whole series, I'm 2270 02:10:53,760 --> 02:10:56,800 talking about each race, you know, that's not hard to 2271 02:10:56,800 --> 02:11:01,080 understand. And, you know, I, I just think 2272 02:11:01,080 --> 02:11:05,680 that it's easier said than done, but it is possible, you know, 2273 02:11:05,680 --> 02:11:08,440 to, to, to start, to do this and to start to work on this and 2274 02:11:08,720 --> 02:11:12,520 make it a priority. And, you know, you know, I, I 2275 02:11:12,520 --> 02:11:16,200 just think that we, we have, we have to try. 2276 02:11:16,880 --> 02:11:19,880 There's more money coming in and, but it's not always going 2277 02:11:19,880 --> 02:11:23,880 to the prize purse. And, and I think, I think it 2278 02:11:23,880 --> 02:11:27,120 needs to, you asked me at the top, how did I get these people? 2279 02:11:27,240 --> 02:11:29,440 Well, I would have no one if there was no prize purse. 2280 02:11:29,840 --> 02:11:32,440 And next year, if we raise our price purse, our field will be 2281 02:11:32,440 --> 02:11:34,920 better. And the majors have a bit of a 2282 02:11:34,920 --> 02:11:38,120 monopoly where they don't really have to raise their prize purse 2283 02:11:38,440 --> 02:11:40,080 because you have to run the majors. 2284 02:11:40,400 --> 02:11:44,000 And I'm not knocking them. I'm just telling you that that's 2285 02:11:44,000 --> 02:11:46,720 the way it is. And, and, and they give very 2286 02:11:46,720 --> 02:11:48,000 generous appearance fees for sure. 2287 02:11:48,000 --> 02:11:50,200 And that can, and they, they're able to control their field that 2288 02:11:50,200 --> 02:11:51,760 way. And I'm not saying to get rid of 2289 02:11:51,760 --> 02:11:55,120 the appearance fees, but I just think public facing, it's hard 2290 02:11:55,120 --> 02:11:58,560 to, it's hard to make this seem like a professional sport. 2291 02:11:58,560 --> 02:12:02,440 When you say the, the top prize is $100,000, I mean, it's just, 2292 02:12:02,440 --> 02:12:04,440 it's just a joke. You know, compared, I mean, I 2293 02:12:04,440 --> 02:12:07,600 got the worst golf tournament on the PGA Tour. 2294 02:12:07,600 --> 02:12:11,520 The, the top prize is $1,000,000 and we're getting good, we're 2295 02:12:11,520 --> 02:12:14,440 getting good sponsorships too. You know, in this sport, there's 2296 02:12:14,440 --> 02:12:17,800 major TCS is no joke. I mean, these are, these are big 2297 02:12:17,800 --> 02:12:19,560 companies paying big, big dollars. 2298 02:12:20,960 --> 02:12:25,040 And you know, I think, I think we got to find a way to, to, to 2299 02:12:25,040 --> 02:12:28,240 make, make the sport seem more professional. 2300 02:12:28,480 --> 02:12:31,480 It is professional. We have to convey that to to the 2301 02:12:31,480 --> 02:12:32,960 public. Yeah. 2302 02:12:33,240 --> 02:12:35,960 So we brought up the trials a couple times and like, I guess 2303 02:12:35,960 --> 02:12:40,280 the challenge with the race, like CIM or New York and all 2304 02:12:40,280 --> 02:12:42,280 that stuff is that sometimes they're just so locked into 2305 02:12:42,280 --> 02:12:45,040 their date, like with the marathon project. 2306 02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:47,440 And I guess this is a much more down the road. 2307 02:12:47,440 --> 02:12:49,240 I'm sure you're just trying to get through this weekend. 2308 02:12:49,240 --> 02:12:53,040 But like, is that curiosity there of just sort of, you know, 2309 02:12:53,520 --> 02:12:58,360 when bidding potentially for the 28 marathon trials? 2310 02:12:58,840 --> 02:13:01,360 I guess like the ugly side of it is what we've learned just over 2311 02:13:01,360 --> 02:13:04,600 the years from the financial undertaking of how much it costs 2312 02:13:04,600 --> 02:13:08,760 and like the debt that, you know, Atlanta took on to try and 2313 02:13:08,800 --> 02:13:13,360 stage it and the different ways that Orlando tried to scale back 2314 02:13:13,360 --> 02:13:15,560 and adjust so that it wouldn't be as big of a hit. 2315 02:13:15,560 --> 02:13:19,560 So there's just sort of that over the last couple times the, 2316 02:13:19,560 --> 02:13:22,480 the, the thought is, well, who would want to sign up for that? 2317 02:13:22,680 --> 02:13:26,200 It is like the, the, the best American marathon that takes 2318 02:13:26,200 --> 02:13:28,880 place. But it just, it's, it's a big, 2319 02:13:29,000 --> 02:13:32,720 it's a big ask. Yes, you're asking me. 2320 02:13:33,280 --> 02:13:35,480 Are you interested? Oh, am I interested? 2321 02:13:35,880 --> 02:13:38,040 Well, we have a five year business plan. 2322 02:13:38,040 --> 02:13:41,240 I'm, I'm operating this like I've operated all my ventures 2323 02:13:41,240 --> 02:13:45,600 over the years where I have a long term plan and we we have 2324 02:13:45,600 --> 02:13:50,280 that marked as a 2032 possibility, not as a 2028, but 2325 02:13:50,280 --> 02:13:53,760 we do feel like it's a tailor made course for the trials. 2326 02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:58,440 The lap course is awesome. We know what we're doing. 2327 02:14:00,000 --> 02:14:03,000 We have a great team around us. We feel like by then we'll have 2328 02:14:03,000 --> 02:14:06,480 the stature to host it, but we would still need partners. 2329 02:14:06,480 --> 02:14:09,280 In terms of the financial piece, we, we wouldn't be able to do it 2330 02:14:09,280 --> 02:14:10,400 ourselves. We're going to lose money this 2331 02:14:10,400 --> 02:14:13,320 year as it is on this race. So we, we don't have 2 million 2332 02:14:13,320 --> 02:14:16,560 to, to host the trials. You know, of course we hope to 2333 02:14:16,560 --> 02:14:23,040 make money down the road, but I, I, I think that, yeah, if we, if 2334 02:14:23,040 --> 02:14:26,040 we got the right partners in Phoenix and the, the Phoenix 2335 02:14:26,360 --> 02:14:28,560 visit Phoenix or the Phoenix Sports Commission wanted to get 2336 02:14:28,560 --> 02:14:30,360 behind it, I, I would be very open to that. 2337 02:14:30,360 --> 02:14:33,120 And I think that we could do some cool things that big city 2338 02:14:33,120 --> 02:14:36,800 races aren't able to do because we're on this resort and we 2339 02:14:36,800 --> 02:14:39,360 could even, we could even fence it and we can, you could have to 2340 02:14:39,360 --> 02:14:41,520 pay to get in and people would, people, of course, would pay. 2341 02:14:42,640 --> 02:14:44,480 And so we can, we can make it really cool. 2342 02:14:44,480 --> 02:14:45,600 We can make it kind of like a stadium. 2343 02:14:45,600 --> 02:14:49,080 It could feel like a stadium and or maybe you would call it a 2344 02:14:49,080 --> 02:14:51,320 giant cross country race, feel like the NCAA cross country 2345 02:14:51,320 --> 02:14:52,840 race. So yeah, we feel like we're 2346 02:14:52,840 --> 02:14:55,880 we're in a good position to to perhaps bid on it down the road, 2347 02:14:55,880 --> 02:14:58,280 but but not in 2028. Yeah. 2348 02:14:58,280 --> 02:15:02,120 So as as marathons are like, is there any, are there any changes 2349 02:15:02,120 --> 02:15:05,800 to the trials model that you think would would be made? 2350 02:15:05,800 --> 02:15:08,640 I guess, like, I mean, the system works. 2351 02:15:08,640 --> 02:15:12,080 I love that it's top three on the day go, you know, as long as 2352 02:15:12,080 --> 02:15:14,000 they've hit the standards or if qualified. 2353 02:15:14,000 --> 02:15:17,240 But when it comes to just sort of like the the structure of 2354 02:15:17,240 --> 02:15:19,840 organizing like the the marathon trials, is there anything that 2355 02:15:19,840 --> 02:15:23,120 you would change? A couple things. 2356 02:15:23,120 --> 02:15:26,440 I mean, people will probably be surprised to hear that I I 2357 02:15:26,440 --> 02:15:30,840 actually like the system even though I I recognize it's flaws. 2358 02:15:37,040 --> 02:15:43,960 You know, I think that USATF does a lot of things that it 2359 02:15:43,960 --> 02:15:47,280 probably it's stretched too thin. 2360 02:15:47,280 --> 02:15:49,600 They are stretched too thin as an organization. 2361 02:15:50,160 --> 02:15:57,480 And if you think about a lot of the other parallel governing 2362 02:15:57,480 --> 02:16:02,040 bodies, swimming, gymnastics, even soccer, although soccer has 2363 02:16:02,040 --> 02:16:07,200 a bigger profile, their number one goal, and this is what USATF 2364 02:16:07,200 --> 02:16:11,800 says their number one goal is right, is to, is to, is to 2365 02:16:11,800 --> 02:16:14,920 create their Olympic teams, right pick and create their 2366 02:16:14,920 --> 02:16:18,600 Olympic teams, support their Olympic athletes or, or in the 2367 02:16:18,600 --> 02:16:20,760 case that US soccer, you know, they're World Cup athletes. 2368 02:16:21,200 --> 02:16:26,800 And I, I believe USATF has that mission. 2369 02:16:27,920 --> 02:16:32,440 But but I think part of that should be contributing in a 2370 02:16:32,440 --> 02:16:36,600 bigger way to the Olympic trials, both the marathon and 2371 02:16:36,600 --> 02:16:40,080 the track and field trials. And you know, to me right off 2372 02:16:40,080 --> 02:16:42,400 the top, I think there should be a big bigger financial 2373 02:16:42,400 --> 02:16:45,799 contribution from USA track and field if they remain the 2374 02:16:45,799 --> 02:16:49,120 governing body as it relates to the marathon. 2375 02:16:49,120 --> 02:16:51,799 That's another thing you could argue that that the marathon 2376 02:16:51,799 --> 02:16:52,879 should have its own governing body. 2377 02:16:52,879 --> 02:16:54,879 But let's just stick to this, right? 2378 02:16:55,920 --> 02:16:59,160 I think, I think they, I think the prize for should be doubled. 2379 02:16:59,520 --> 02:17:02,480 You know, again, you're going to hear me talk about the prize 2380 02:17:02,480 --> 02:17:05,080 first. I mean, again, for these 2381 02:17:05,080 --> 02:17:11,799 athletes, you've you've almost, you've got them in a it's like a 2382 02:17:11,799 --> 02:17:15,799 parking lot in a downtown before a football or a big baseball 2383 02:17:15,799 --> 02:17:18,400 game or something, right? Like the parking lot can charge 2384 02:17:18,400 --> 02:17:20,680 whatever it wants because there's no other choice. 2385 02:17:21,240 --> 02:17:24,559 And these marathoners have to go to this race because there's no 2386 02:17:24,559 --> 02:17:26,240 other choice is what they've dreamed about since they were a 2387 02:17:26,240 --> 02:17:30,360 little kid. But to have the, the winning, to 2388 02:17:30,400 --> 02:17:33,040 have the 1st place prize only be $80,000 and there's no 2389 02:17:33,040 --> 02:17:36,719 appearance fee, it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous compared to what 2390 02:17:36,719 --> 02:17:38,920 they could do. Even their appearance fees, some 2391 02:17:38,920 --> 02:17:41,240 of them would be higher than that, you know, at the, at the, 2392 02:17:41,360 --> 02:17:43,879 at the world majors. And so again, the public doesn't 2393 02:17:43,879 --> 02:17:47,559 know that. But like, I just think that the 2394 02:17:47,559 --> 02:17:49,799 prize first has to be bigger. And to me that should be come 2395 02:17:49,799 --> 02:17:51,760 from USETFI. Don't think the LOC should have 2396 02:17:51,760 --> 02:17:55,799 to not only cover everything that they are already cover, 2397 02:17:55,799 --> 02:17:58,959 which is a $2,000,000 price tag total, but then also have to 2398 02:17:58,959 --> 02:18:01,240 raise the price, money price, price first. 2399 02:18:01,639 --> 02:18:04,920 So yeah, I think if USATF could step in and double the prize 2400 02:18:04,920 --> 02:18:07,080 first, that would be a big first step. 2401 02:18:07,440 --> 02:18:11,000 And I think it would also soften the relationship then between 2402 02:18:11,000 --> 02:18:14,719 the LOC and the and USATF. Whereas now USATF contributes 2403 02:18:14,719 --> 02:18:17,559 absolutely zero. They only take and they just 2404 02:18:17,559 --> 02:18:19,799 don't feel like a partner, you know, in the process. 2405 02:18:19,799 --> 02:18:22,480 And look, I'm not saying this to offend anyone. 2406 02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:25,080 I'm trying to make it better. You know, I, I, I've actually 2407 02:18:25,080 --> 02:18:28,400 had good experiences and bad experiences with USATF over the 2408 02:18:28,400 --> 02:18:30,480 years. But but you know, I've put on 2409 02:18:30,480 --> 02:18:32,480 the USA cross country championships and I enjoyed it 2410 02:18:32,480 --> 02:18:34,600 and I knew what I was getting into and all that kind of stuff. 2411 02:18:34,600 --> 02:18:37,840 But yeah, I just think it needs to be more of a partnership. 2412 02:18:37,840 --> 02:18:41,360 I think if the prize money was bigger for the trials, that 2413 02:18:41,360 --> 02:18:44,320 would be nice and fair. I think that would be fair. 2414 02:18:44,320 --> 02:18:47,040 To your point about Atlanta, there's 250,000 people out 2415 02:18:47,040 --> 02:18:49,240 there. That's too many people to have 2416 02:18:49,240 --> 02:18:51,200 the price for as as small as it was. 2417 02:18:52,240 --> 02:18:53,520 So there you go. Yeah. 2418 02:18:54,240 --> 02:18:55,719 All right. So final, final question I've 2419 02:18:55,719 --> 02:18:58,080 got for you, Ben is like, what is the hope, I guess, you know, 2420 02:18:58,080 --> 02:19:02,680 for people tuning in, you know, to watch on Floatrack on Sunday 2421 02:19:02,680 --> 02:19:06,240 morning and those who you know, make the trip out and get to 2422 02:19:06,240 --> 02:19:08,080 witness it in person. What do you what do you hope is 2423 02:19:08,080 --> 02:19:10,879 the feeling that they walk away from from this event with? 2424 02:19:12,480 --> 02:19:14,440 Well, if you're there in person, I think you're going to feel it. 2425 02:19:14,680 --> 02:19:17,160 I think you're going to feel it, you know, again, creating a 2426 02:19:17,160 --> 02:19:20,600 situation where the top amateurs could then stay Saturday night 2427 02:19:20,600 --> 02:19:22,559 and watch the pro race. That's the only thing they don't 2428 02:19:22,559 --> 02:19:23,840 get to do with the majors, right? 2429 02:19:25,200 --> 02:19:26,160 I think they're going to feel it. 2430 02:19:26,160 --> 02:19:28,600 It's going to be loud and fun and people are going to be going 2431 02:19:28,600 --> 02:19:32,200 crazy and the tension is going to build over each lap, each 2432 02:19:32,200 --> 02:19:35,639 lap, each lap and, and, and, and finally, you know, they'll be 2433 02:19:35,639 --> 02:19:38,280 this big culmination as the athletes finish. 2434 02:19:38,280 --> 02:19:39,719 So I think they're going to have fun. 2435 02:19:39,719 --> 02:19:41,600 I feel good about the athletes that are going to be there. 2436 02:19:42,000 --> 02:19:45,320 Our goal on the broadcast with, with flow track and our goal on 2437 02:19:45,320 --> 02:19:46,920 social media. We're working with a company 2438 02:19:46,920 --> 02:19:50,280 called Moss Independent out of Germany that does a great job. 2439 02:19:51,480 --> 02:19:54,520 Our goal for social media and for the broadcast is to then 2440 02:19:54,520 --> 02:19:57,760 make the people at home feel like they're there and, and feel 2441 02:19:57,760 --> 02:20:00,640 that same excitement. And so, yeah, the, the social 2442 02:20:00,640 --> 02:20:03,840 media, the Instagram really will be all weekend live. 2443 02:20:03,840 --> 02:20:07,800 Lots of fun stuff, lots of interviews, just trying to give 2444 02:20:07,800 --> 02:20:09,400 people a taste of what it's like to be there. 2445 02:20:09,640 --> 02:20:12,040 And then the broadcast with Scott Falbo and Molly Seidel on 2446 02:20:12,040 --> 02:20:13,800 it. And then our play by play guy, 2447 02:20:13,800 --> 02:20:15,680 Steve Sievert. And then Josh Cox is going to be 2448 02:20:15,680 --> 02:20:18,480 on the on the Moto doing some roving reporting. 2449 02:20:19,520 --> 02:20:21,480 Yeah, we just wanted to feel like a sporting event, you know, 2450 02:20:21,520 --> 02:20:24,040 a a real sports event. I want Fobs and Molly to be 2451 02:20:24,040 --> 02:20:26,600 giving their honest takes about what's going on and who they 2452 02:20:26,600 --> 02:20:28,320 think's going to win and what people look like. 2453 02:20:28,320 --> 02:20:30,960 And yeah, no, no talking down to the audience. 2454 02:20:30,960 --> 02:20:34,000 I want it to be a really, really fun broadcast for the for the 2455 02:20:34,000 --> 02:20:35,800 running nerd. And I mean that in a in an 2456 02:20:35,800 --> 02:20:36,520 endearing way. And. 2457 02:20:37,040 --> 02:20:39,720 In addition to that, I guess like when I get people download 2458 02:20:39,720 --> 02:20:43,000 the app right, like for tracking and and the live leaderboard and 2459 02:20:43,000 --> 02:20:45,440 stuff, is that the move? Yeah, that's the move. 2460 02:20:45,440 --> 02:20:48,840 So the TMP app, you just type in the marathon project to iOS or, 2461 02:20:48,920 --> 02:20:53,080 or the Play Store and yeah, you can get it. 2462 02:20:53,080 --> 02:20:55,520 And it's got, it's got all the leaderboard stuff that you would 2463 02:20:55,520 --> 02:20:59,040 see on all the cool races, right, that you follow and you 2464 02:20:59,040 --> 02:21:02,160 can track your favorite athletes and got a little fantasy game 2465 02:21:02,160 --> 02:21:04,160 you can play on the website if you want. 2466 02:21:04,720 --> 02:21:06,280 But yeah, I want it to be really cool. 2467 02:21:06,280 --> 02:21:08,200 I want people to follow along. They're going to, they're going 2468 02:21:08,200 --> 02:21:10,280 to have fun. It's going to be a cool event. 2469 02:21:10,280 --> 02:21:12,320 If we can, if we can knock it out of the park this year, I 2470 02:21:12,320 --> 02:21:14,760 think we'll be well on our way to establishing something that 2471 02:21:14,760 --> 02:21:16,200 that'll last long into the future. 2472 02:21:16,800 --> 02:21:20,920 I know that as marathon czar, this would take like legal 2473 02:21:21,440 --> 02:21:22,640 things to change and all that stuff. 2474 02:21:22,640 --> 02:21:24,640 I'm sure you're one of those people who was like live 2475 02:21:24,640 --> 02:21:27,080 betting. A marathon would be so much fun 2476 02:21:27,080 --> 02:21:28,960 to see, just sort of like how it would unfold. 2477 02:21:29,480 --> 02:21:30,800 You know, these days there's not as many. 2478 02:21:30,800 --> 02:21:34,200 I mean that that's not as crazy as it used to seem. 2479 02:21:34,400 --> 02:21:38,600 The challenge is just for DraftKings or FanDuel or Bet MGM 2480 02:21:38,600 --> 02:21:40,480 or you notice, I know all these names. 2481 02:21:42,680 --> 02:21:46,080 It has to be worth it to them. They have to feel like they 2482 02:21:46,080 --> 02:21:50,280 would get enough interest to make it worth their while, 2483 02:21:50,560 --> 02:21:53,800 because they'd have to, they'd have to put a lot of money into 2484 02:21:53,800 --> 02:21:56,320 the algorithms and things and, and the, and the human beings 2485 02:21:56,320 --> 02:21:59,440 that they'd have to pay to, to set the lines and all those, all 2486 02:21:59,440 --> 02:22:00,520 those sorts of things. I agree. 2487 02:22:00,520 --> 02:22:02,680 That would be really fun. And, and I don't think it's that 2488 02:22:02,680 --> 02:22:05,080 crazy, but we got to make the sport more popular first, Chris. 2489 02:22:05,360 --> 02:22:07,920 Yeah, yeah. How many miles is Yuki Kahuchi 2490 02:22:07,920 --> 02:22:10,280 at the front or whatever it might be just a lot of. 2491 02:22:10,880 --> 02:22:15,400 Lots of lots of prop bets for sure, and the live bets would be 2492 02:22:15,400 --> 02:22:17,680 fun and you know, of course I wouldn't be able to do it 2493 02:22:17,680 --> 02:22:20,880 wouldn't be ethical, but you know, it would be fun. 2494 02:22:20,920 --> 02:22:23,920 I agree it. Would be well Ben, best of luck 2495 02:22:23,920 --> 02:22:26,080 this weekend. You know, with with the event 2496 02:22:26,080 --> 02:22:28,120 and everything. It's so good to see it back and 2497 02:22:28,120 --> 02:22:31,600 and and so great that you know you found this way to stay so 2498 02:22:31,600 --> 02:22:34,160 close to the sport and wishing all the best of luck. 2499 02:22:34,960 --> 02:22:38,440 Thanks, Chris. Thank you all for listening to 2500 02:22:38,440 --> 02:22:40,280 this episode. This episode was produced by 2501 02:22:40,280 --> 02:22:42,760 Jasmine Fair. I love doing this for you guys. 2502 02:22:42,760 --> 02:22:45,760 So please do me a favor and leave a five star view on Apple 2503 02:22:45,760 --> 02:22:47,920 Podcast or Spotify. That helps us grow the show and 2504 02:22:47,920 --> 02:22:50,800 get even more awesome guests. Let me know what you're enjoying 2505 02:22:50,800 --> 02:22:52,720 about the show. Make sure you're subscribed or 2506 02:22:52,720 --> 02:22:54,440 following on your favorite podcast. 2507 02:22:54,440 --> 02:22:56,920 Players, please share this episode with your friends if you 2508 02:22:56,920 --> 02:22:59,280 think that they'll get any value or inspiration out of it. 2509 02:22:59,280 --> 02:23:02,360 Let's build this thing together. Visit cityofsmack.com for a lot 2510 02:23:02,360 --> 02:23:03,640 more. We've got a brand new website 2511 02:23:03,640 --> 02:23:05,760 with tons more articles, videos and podcasts. 2512 02:23:06,000 --> 02:23:07,720 As always, I love track and field. 2513 02:23:07,840 --> 02:23:09,840 I'm Chris Chavez, see you next time.