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What's up everyone? 
You are listening to the CDs 

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Magic podcast. 
I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 

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every week we go beyond the 
results to bring you 

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conversations with the biggest 
names on the track, the roads 

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and behind the scenes from 
World. 

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Class athletes and coaches to 
innovators shaping the sport. 

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If it's happening on the track, 
we're covering it with real 

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insights that sharpen minds, 
deep dives into the moments that

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define careers, and the kind of 
access to the pros you won't get

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anywhere. 
Else. 

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So let's get into it because we 
love track and field. 

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Before we get to today's 
episode, you know, we love 

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giving our listeners a shout out
when they leave us a review on 

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Apple Podcast. 
This certainly helps the show's 

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discoverability and we 
appreciate it. 

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This week's review comes to us 
from Hilary KV who writes in 

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saying grateful for the pod. 
Citios Mag truly makes it easy 

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to follow and love track and 
road running. 

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I became a big track fan after 
the Paris Olympics and listening

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to this pod on my runs kept my 
interest in the sport beyond the

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Olympic year. 
I loved all of the up to date, 

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fresh episodes during the World 
Champs to process my own post 

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race thoughts and emotions for 
the still relatively niche sport

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which you guys are about to 
change. 

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I can't imagine the work and 
exhaustion that goes behind 

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making these episodes and 
athlete interviews on the field.

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Your passion for the sport 
really shines and I'm so 

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grateful for it. 
I hope to meet the team in a 

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group run someday. 
Join us for the Houston Marathon

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or Boston in 2026. 
Thank you Hillary, we will 

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definitely be in Boston next 
year. 

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Marathon weekends are a ton of 
fun for us, especially when we 

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get to meet and interact with 
all of you since we're 

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constantly in your ears. 
We are so grateful for the 

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support. 
If you want your review to be 

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read and you want to support the
show, leave us a review on Apple

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Podcast today. 
My guest for today's episode is 

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Joe Clecker, A2020 Olympian and 
AUS 10,000 meter champion on the

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track, but this year marks 
something new after an abductor 

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injury forced him out of the 
Olympic. 

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Trials and cost him a shot at 
the Paris Games. 

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Joe Clecker is stepping into the
next phase of his career, the 

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Rhodes. 
We chronicled much of this 

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transition last winter when we 
produced a mini docu series on 

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Klecker facing off against 
Connor Manson, Clayton Young in 

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January. 
Houston Half Marathon. 

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He made his debut there and ran 
one hour, 1 minute and six 

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seconds. 
By the spring, he was grinding 

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through the US Rd. racing 
circuit with races in Atlanta, 

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DC, Boulder, and learning what 
it takes to trade in the spikes 

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for super shoes. 
Now he's taking on the biggest 

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debut of all, the New York City 
Marathon. 

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In this episode, we talked about
what that transitions been like,

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the process of learning the 
roads in a very public way, and 

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how he's dialed in a plan for a 
successful day. 

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In the big. 
Apple, without further ado, here

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is Joe Clecker. 
All right, it seems like I've 

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got like a recurring tradition 
with Conor Mance to both preview

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and recap every single one of 
his marathon performances. 

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And so I figured why not start 
that same exact relationship 

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with Joe Clecker ahead of his 
marathon debut? 

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Joe, it's almost a week away 
before you'll be running your 

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marathon debut in New York City.
Has the taper treat you? 

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Good. 
Yeah, just getting into it now, 

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kind of been looking forward to 
it for a while. 

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It's just nice being like 
healthy going into it. 

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So like not having to take any, 
you know, time away from running

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before this in this build has 
been really nice. 

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And so now it's like you get to 
enjoy kind of reducing the 

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training a bit versus being 
forced to reduce the training. 

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What's the combination of like, 
excitement, nerves, like, 

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where's that at right now? 
Yeah, the excitement is super 

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like every day it feels like 
it's getting more and more. 

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I think that I tried to like 
really focus on, you know, my 

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tune up race, which was a couple
weeks ago in Twin Cities. 

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And then kind of I had about two
or so 2 1/2 weeks after that 

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where we still hit training 
pretty hard. 

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So I wanted to just kind of 
focus on each workout. 

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But now we're, yeah, like you 
said, we're kind of into the 

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taper now and we're at the point
where I feel like I don't need 

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anything more before the race. 
And so it's just kind of like 

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ticking off the boxes everyday 
and resting and really just 

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honing in on race day. 
And so I'm trying to channel my 

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energy now from training into 
more like studying the course, 

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visualizing like the race plan 
we have in in store. 

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And then just like, you know 
what, what do I need to focus 

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on, you know, to execute the 
race well. 

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And so that's where I've kind of
shifted things now. 

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So we'll get into more specifics
of the actual training, but I 

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think when we chatted almost a 
year ago, you know, at the New 

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York City Marathon Expo and you 
were getting ready to ride along

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the lead vehicle. 
One thing was like you were just

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really excited about the actual 
training it takes to race the 

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marathon because there was an 
intensity to trying to be fast 

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on the track and have that 400 
meter closing speed at the end 

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of a 10K. 
And then for Someone Like You 

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who's kind of has like the 
aerobic engine and the 

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endurance, like the marathon has
always kind of been like the 

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event that's been calling. 
And you look forward to just 

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sort of that training because 
you felt that your body was not 

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being able to hold up to certain
elements of what it took to be 

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successful on the track. 
So diving into the roads and 

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specifically with marathon 
training, has it been just sort 

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of what you imagined and what 
you were hoping to enjoy? 

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Yeah. 
You know, the, when we started 

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doing the road stuff, you know, 
coming off of more or less like 

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6 to 8 months of no real 
training, you know, we're kind 

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of starting from scratch when I 
was in New York a year ago. 

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And so at the time, like the 
intensity of training was kind 

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of the limiting factor and 
volume was something that I 

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could still do or, you know, was
better for my injury at the time

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that I was coming back from. 
But then yeah, no, it's been 

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like kind of what I expected. 
Like I, you know, we're training

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now 120 a 125 miles a week. 
Workouts instead of being more 

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around 8 miles will be all the 
way up to like 16. 

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And then, you know, if you 
consider long runs, they'll be 

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up to 25. 
And so kind of with all of this,

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like it looks intimidating on 
paper. 

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And then I will get after the 
workout and I'll be like, wow, 

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like my body feels really good. 
Like, you know, I kind of joked 

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with Lauren Dathan that we have 
some of these workouts they kind

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of call like bridge workouts. 
They're more or less kind of so 

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a little bit 2 hundreds, a 
little bit of mild repeats, kind

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of just flushing out like the 
harder workout. 

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And so I was telling them I'm 
like, I'm usually more tired 

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after that workout than the 25 
mile run. 

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And so, yeah, I think that this 
kind of training has come pretty

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naturally and more or less what 
I expected. 

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Like it was always like in the 
fall, building up for track was 

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like my bread and butter. 
Like, I felt amazing. 

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It felt like I could just kind 
of push out on the dirt roads, 

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like as hard as I wanted, and my
body would just bounce back 

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really well. 
And then, you know, we'd get to 

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track season and we'd start 
hammering that, the track 

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workouts. 
And then I felt like I was much 

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more kind of riding that line. 
And so this stuff has been very 

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nice, but we're still doing some
of the track workouts as well. 

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But that's seeming like the hard
part of the training now is, is 

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when we do go back to the track.
And, and so much of just sort of

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like your setup has also 
changed, right? 

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There is like the addition of 
Laura as an assistant coach to 

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kind of like oversee a lot of 
the Rhodes team. 

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Then they built out just sort of
more training partners for you 

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when it comes to the roadside of
things instead of having to mix 

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it up with, you know, the OAC 
track guys. 

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And that wasn't necessarily in 
place back in like January when 

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we got your first Test at the, 
you know, on the roads with 

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Houston. 
And at that time also, I think 

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the key thing to kind of just 
remember over sort of like the 

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plan that was sort of envisioned
a year ago was, wasn't it? 

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All right, Houston half. 
Let's try and get a fast time 

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there then, you know, run the 10
one final swing at making a 

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World Team on the track. 
Have the happy Cinderella ending

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of going to worlds in Tokyo with
a full stadium, same stadium 

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that you competed in in 2021. 
And then, you know, shift toward

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marathon training. 
And so Houston happens 61 O 6. 

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And then from there, there's a 
conscious decision. 

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OK, we're going to scratch like 
the plans to run the 10 and to, 

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you know, give up this track 
season that we had hoped for. 

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What was that, you know, 
conversation like and and I 

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guess the the thought process 
there. 

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I think that after Houston, I 
just kind of realized that there

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was such a gap between where I 
was and where I wanted to be on 

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the roads. 
And it wasn't just fitness, like

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a lot of it was fitness and 
seeing what it takes to be 

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successful on the roads. 
But so much of it was like when 

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the gun went off, I just felt 
like I didn't know what I was 

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doing out there. 
And like, you think it's just 

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running and it's just racing, 
but Rd. racing is so different. 

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And so, you know, when Dathan 
and I talked about it after the 

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fact, we're like, you know, I 
think we just need to continue 

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to run more Rd. races. 
And luckily there was a whole 

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spring of great Rd. races that 
we're able to hop into. 

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And I think we learned like 
everything we needed to to where

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like now I feel kind of like 
experience and where I feel like

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I can put together a 12 week 
training block and go race and 

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be prepared for it versus 
feeling like, you know, maybe I 

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was a little fitter, I thought 
than 61 O 6 in Houston. 

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But when when it came down to 
it, I had no idea how to race 

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1/2 marathon or even how to like
execute the like how those races

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play out. 
And so we just figured there was

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such a big experience gap along 
with like the fitness that we're

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going to continue to build that 
going back to the track was kind

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of like, what was it going to 
serve us? 

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You know, like I had great years
on the track, great 10 KS, great

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5 KS, but we just felt it was so
different from what I needed to 

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learn how to do on the roads 
that it wasn't really going to 

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move the needle to get us where 
we wanted to be to prepare for, 

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you know, at the time, not set 
in stone, but the hope was a 

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fall marathon or following 
spring. 

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But we didn't feel like the 
track was going to get us, you 

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know, towards that goal. 
So we just decided to scrap it. 

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And then in terms of building 
out the the roads team and then 

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bringing on Laura, I think that 
one thing we also realized was I

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was trying to do Rd. racing 
training with all track guys on 

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a track schedule. 
And although it was really good,

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like I was able to, you know, I 
have great training partners 

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there, it just wasn't like quite
what we needed. 

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You know, like Helen wasn't 
doing that with the women's 

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team. 
And so I was like, look, like I 

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think what you need on the roads
is a little different. 

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And Dathan realized that. 
And so we kind of made the 

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decision we're going to start 
building out like a little bit 

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of a roadside to this team. 
And it's been great because you 

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know, like when you're on the 
track, like I would be doing 

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these long runs, say like 20 
miles hard and the track guys 

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would maybe be doing 15 miles 
easy. 

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And then two days later, we'd 
all come together for a hard 

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track workout. 
And there was just no way that 

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my body was going to be ready 48
hours later for this hard track 

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workout. 
And so it just was like trying 

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to fit that into like their 
training. 

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It just wasn't really benefiting
me to get where I need to be. 

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And like, I'll still link up 
with those guys a lot. 

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But now we have like, Laura, 
who's dedicated primarily to the

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roadside of the team. 
And then we're bringing on, you 

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know, we brought on Ryan Ford, 
who ran in Chicago, and then we 

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have another athlete we're 
bringing on pretty soon here 

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that they'll announce and then 
even beyond. 

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That it's a terribly kept secret
that Patrick Kiprov is on the 

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team. 
Yeah, I guess it's a pretty bad 

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kept secret. 
But he'll be in New York. 

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00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:52,120
But then even beyond that, we 
have a lot of other athletes 

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00:12:52,120 --> 00:12:54,960
reaching out that see what we're
doing and they're like, OK, I 

225
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:57,360
want to be a part of this. 
And so it's really kind of an 

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00:12:57,360 --> 00:13:03,040
exciting time for this side of 
the team because like, I feel 

227
00:13:03,040 --> 00:13:05,640
like we have, we're totally like
doing what we need to be doing 

228
00:13:05,640 --> 00:13:07,280
now to be successful on the 
roads. 

229
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,280
And then we can like have these 
amazing track team that we can 

230
00:13:10,280 --> 00:13:12,440
link up with when that's what we
need. 

231
00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:17,960
So even going back to just sort 
of like January, the, the weeks 

232
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:20,960
leading up, because we sent 
Mack, Mack went out, filmed a 

233
00:13:20,960 --> 00:13:23,360
bunch of your your workouts. 
And then there was this whole 

234
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,040
thing about just sort of like 
the hype around like the 

235
00:13:26,040 --> 00:13:27,560
American record in the half 
marathon. 

236
00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:32,400
And after you fell short of that
goal, like pretty far off of it 

237
00:13:32,680 --> 00:13:35,680
in Houston. 
I think one thing that I pointed

238
00:13:35,680 --> 00:13:38,120
out to like a bunch of you and, 
and just sort of like saying it 

239
00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:41,160
on the podcast was like, I 
really hope that Joe has no 

240
00:13:41,160 --> 00:13:44,760
regrets about just like how 
vocal you were about going after

241
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:48,920
that goal and being so 
optimistic about hitting a home 

242
00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,200
run in your first time out at 
the half marathon distance. 

243
00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,120
And so I'm curious if you're 
sort of like how you kind of 

244
00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,680
felt, you know, 'cause, you 
know, the online, wherever there

245
00:14:00,680 --> 00:14:02,280
could have been, it could have 
been a bunch of critics. 

246
00:14:02,280 --> 00:14:05,520
It was like, how could he have 
just like tanked so badly, you 

247
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:10,040
know, after setting, you know, 
this big benchmark out there and

248
00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,600
essentially like failing 
publicly, you know, after 

249
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:15,400
putting this out there, no 
regrets. 

250
00:14:15,440 --> 00:14:17,080
I, I hope on your side of 
things. 

251
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:22,920
Yeah, I think that looking back 
at Houston, the plan on paper 

252
00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:26,440
was the pacer is going to be 60 
minutes. 

253
00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:30,680
And we felt that I could run 
around 60 minutes and if we 

254
00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,760
really caught fire, could push 
down those last few miles and be

255
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,560
close to the 5940 American 
record. 

256
00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:42,040
And so that was kind of how I 
was training and what we were 

257
00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:44,640
focusing on. 
And then I don't know if you 

258
00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:48,120
remember exactly in the race, 
but they were on 59 low pace 

259
00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:53,320
very early in the race. 
And so that was, I was in no way

260
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,560
prepared for that. 
And like, obviously it's a race 

261
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,200
and it's going to, you know, 
it's a race. 

262
00:14:58,200 --> 00:15:02,920
So whatever happens, happens. 
But so that caught me super off 

263
00:15:02,920 --> 00:15:05,240
guard. 
And I just was like, OK, like 

264
00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,680
this isn't really set up for how
I thought I was going to be able

265
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,920
to get the record. 
And then from there it was just 

266
00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:16,480
kind of like the next big thing 
was like, OK, if we can still be

267
00:15:16,480 --> 00:15:19,640
around break 61, that would be 
like a really positive day. 

268
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,520
But, you know, there's a lot of 
backwards momentum after those 

269
00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,440
first few miles after seeing 
like, you know, Manson, those 

270
00:15:28,440 --> 00:15:31,440
guys Sprint up the road. 
But no, there's no, no regrets. 

271
00:15:31,440 --> 00:15:34,960
I mean, I was like, I felt 
really confident with where I 

272
00:15:34,960 --> 00:15:38,760
was at. 
And I think that that was part 

273
00:15:38,760 --> 00:15:43,040
of learning about Rd. racing was
like when you put together a 

274
00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,520
record attempt on the track, 
it's so well orchestrated and 

275
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:50,680
like the splits are just within,
usually within tenths of what 

276
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:54,400
you're aiming for. 
And so just learning that, like 

277
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:58,200
on the roads, the splits are 
going to be kind of a lot more 

278
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:00,800
dependent on the terrain. 
You know, is there a wind at 

279
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:02,640
your back? 
Are you running down a hill? 

280
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:07,160
How is the race playing out? 
And so I thought we'd be going 

281
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:12,040
like 44436 to 440 pace for the 
first, you know, all the miles. 

282
00:16:12,040 --> 00:16:15,880
And I think, you know, their 
first mile was had to be in the 

283
00:16:15,880 --> 00:16:19,000
four 20s and that was just 
something I didn't know happened

284
00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,200
in Rd. races like, and now I do.
And that's something I'm been 

285
00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,440
preparing for. 
And, you know, my workouts and 

286
00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:28,560
I'm used to in racing now is 
like just how fast they go out. 

287
00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,840
But yeah, it's more a learning 
experience than anything. 

288
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,040
And I can still be like happy I 
ran around 61 minutes. 

289
00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:37,000
And I know I have a lot to 
improve on that. 

290
00:16:37,000 --> 00:16:40,880
But yeah, in terms of like 
regrets, there's no regrets with

291
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,760
it. 
Like it just wasn't the the day 

292
00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:49,000
I had envisioned and really the 
day I was training for to for me

293
00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,000
to try and go for that record. 
I, I should say, I mean, 

294
00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:53,520
obviously Manse was in such 
another league running, you 

295
00:16:53,520 --> 00:16:56,280
know, potentially could have run
under 59 minutes that day. 

296
00:16:57,720 --> 00:17:01,960
So yeah, it was what it was, but
it was it was still fun to hype 

297
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:07,359
it up and go for it. 
This episode of the Cities Mag 

298
00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:09,680
podcast is presented by 
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299
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:14,680
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The air is a little sharper. 

300
00:17:15,119 --> 00:17:18,920
The light turns gold. 
Yeah, it's that time of year 

301
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:22,359
again. 
Last year, I was told that my ad

302
00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,880
read for Lollipop Crisp Apple 
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303
00:17:26,640 --> 00:17:30,560
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307
00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:46,400
Sweet, fizzy, comforting. 
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308
00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,520
It actually started as a holiday
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309
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,200
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310
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312
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314
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315
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316
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317
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318
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319
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So here's the old traditions and

320
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322
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323
00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,160
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324
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:51,080
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325
00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:54,400
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Go ahead, crack one open, 

326
00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:57,920
breathe in that fall air and 
feel good about it. 

327
00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:07,240
Lollipop, the runner Soda. 
And I think that the interesting

328
00:19:07,240 --> 00:19:10,920
part after that is that, OK, 
when you and Nathan decide or we

329
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:17,040
need more reps on the roads, it 
does take sort of a certain part

330
00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:20,840
of you as an Olympian, a guy 
who's made all these teams to 

331
00:19:21,480 --> 00:19:24,960
put yourself out there very 
publicly in all of these, you 

332
00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:30,680
know, USATF races, Cherry 
blossom, like all these very 

333
00:19:30,680 --> 00:19:34,640
public stages to just 
essentially you're on a learning

334
00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:39,320
curve like in all these races. 
So like, how, how did you find 

335
00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:41,080
that? 
Because it, you know, after 

336
00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:43,720
being so successful on the track
and knowing one thing for so 

337
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:46,680
long, like this is sort of like,
all right, like I'm going to be 

338
00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,440
finishing 6th, 8th in these 
races. 

339
00:19:49,440 --> 00:19:52,240
And like it may not look great 
on paper, but I know that this 

340
00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:54,600
is part of a process. 
Yeah. 

341
00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:58,320
And so like that was a really 
hard part of the spring and a 

342
00:19:58,400 --> 00:20:02,040
part of the spring that Dathan. 
He wasn't really caught off 

343
00:20:02,040 --> 00:20:05,080
guard by it. 
He said look like we're racing. 

344
00:20:05,080 --> 00:20:08,080
So this year I've raced 9 or 10 
times and my shortest race has 

345
00:20:08,080 --> 00:20:11,520
been 10 kilometers, where when I
was on the track you would only 

346
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,120
want to race A10K2, maybe 3 * a 
year. 

347
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,920
So it's been a lot of really 
long races. 

348
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,640
And so we knew that racing every
three to four weeks was not the 

349
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:28,280
way to optimize those races, but
we felt that we needed the reps 

350
00:20:28,640 --> 00:20:31,600
to learn the racing. 
Like in Houston, there was such 

351
00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:33,880
a disconnect. 
And so in the moment, it was 

352
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,080
like, it'd be disappointing 
when, you know, I go to the race

353
00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:42,240
in Atlanta or Cherry Blossom and
it's like I'm just 30 to 40 

354
00:20:42,240 --> 00:20:44,680
seconds back from a really good 
day. 

355
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:50,960
And knowing that like that, 
we're just not putting together 

356
00:20:50,960 --> 00:20:53,000
the training blocks. 
We don't have the training 

357
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:58,560
blocks to like bridge that gap. 
But we insist that like, this is

358
00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:02,280
what's going to help us be ready
for the marathon and learn how 

359
00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:05,080
to do this. 
If we're, you know, say we race 

360
00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:09,040
Houston and then we put together
another training block for 8 to 

361
00:21:09,120 --> 00:21:13,040
12 weeks and we go race again 
and we have a similar experience

362
00:21:13,040 --> 00:21:15,320
or maybe it's a little bit 
better. 

363
00:21:15,320 --> 00:21:19,120
But still we didn't learn, you 
know, as much as we could have 

364
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:20,920
if we had raced 3 or 4 times in 
there. 

365
00:21:20,920 --> 00:21:23,560
And so it was hard. 
Like in the moment when you're 

366
00:21:23,560 --> 00:21:26,960
just like, man, I'm so close to 
where I want to be or where of 

367
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:32,160
where would be like a good day. 
But then, you know, I had like 

368
00:21:32,160 --> 00:21:34,480
in Grand Rapids, I was really 
positive about that one. 

369
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,600
And that race I was able to put 
together a better training block

370
00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:41,280
before just because I didn't 
have any races right before it. 

371
00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,240
And so that was positive. 
Be like, OK, when I do put 

372
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:48,880
together a training block and I 
really focus on one day I'm able

373
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:51,720
to put it together. 
But then a lot of the races were

374
00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:53,680
just learning curves and just 
reps to. 

375
00:21:55,280 --> 00:22:00,200
Get different experiences. 10K10
mile, 25K half marathon, 

376
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,120
etcetera. 
Did you ever second guess 

377
00:22:02,120 --> 00:22:05,000
yourself at any point being 
like, all right, maybe I should 

378
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:07,640
have gone back to the track? 
Honestly, no. 

379
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,000
It would have been like there 
were times where it was 

380
00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:16,560
frustrating, but I was so. 
Committed to doing this. 

381
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:19,720
And I'm like, you know, I look 
back, I look I look back after 

382
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:22,600
some of my races and I'm like, 
you know, what was it like for 

383
00:22:22,600 --> 00:22:25,600
like Connor in his first year or
two on the roads or what was it 

384
00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,840
like for Clayton his first year 
or two on the roads? 

385
00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:32,840
And it's like I can't expect 
just to jump into it and be at 

386
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:36,280
the level he's at right away, 
even though like my level on the

387
00:22:36,280 --> 00:22:39,080
track was really maybe a little 
higher than what Connor's was. 

388
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:41,920
The roads is just completely 
different. 

389
00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:44,640
And so I think looking back at 
like. 

390
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:47,840
What they were doing in their 
first year, I'm like, OK, like 

391
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:52,600
it's OK for me to not be winning
everything, pushing American 

392
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:57,840
records every time I'm on the 
road, but I need to, like, 

393
00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:02,480
continue to learn and develop 
and make progress towards that. 

394
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:04,640
And so that's what I felt like I
was doing this spring. 

395
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:09,800
And then, yeah, like now the big
thing next year is we're going 

396
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:12,720
to race a lot less, and we feel 
like we don't need to race as 

397
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:15,360
much as we did this year. 
So this spring was kind of like 

398
00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:17,880
getting a lot of that learning 
curve and those growing pains 

399
00:23:17,880 --> 00:23:20,200
out of the way. 
What has been just sort of like 

400
00:23:20,480 --> 00:23:24,040
some of the hardest thing to 
learn about racing on the roads?

401
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:28,080
Is it more just like the in race
covering moves and judging 

402
00:23:28,080 --> 00:23:30,960
things? 
Is it fueling like because it's 

403
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,160
all there are, you know, just 
certain things that make it so 

404
00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,960
different from. 
The track, yeah, a couple 

405
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:40,320
things. 
I would say we learned from the 

406
00:23:40,320 --> 00:23:43,320
races a little bit where my 
fitness is deficient. 

407
00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,640
I think it's easy for me to 
think like, OK, I was a 10K 

408
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:51,160
runner, I'm a really strong 
aerobic runner, but I think we 

409
00:23:51,160 --> 00:23:55,360
found very early on that really 
my aerobic system was very 

410
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:57,160
lacking compared to these Rd. 
racers. 

411
00:23:58,240 --> 00:24:04,920
I think for me on the track we 
did like I was able to get away 

412
00:24:04,920 --> 00:24:08,440
a little bit with not being that
aerobically strong, even though 

413
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,600
I did do like a lot of mileage 
and that kind of stuff. 

414
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,720
I think that my VO2 sessions 
that I was able to handle and do

415
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,960
like really powered me. 
Like when I was in a 10K, you 

416
00:24:19,960 --> 00:24:23,200
know, some of my best 10 KS, I 
was like, you know, I was very 

417
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,000
close to just completely dying 
and not like feeling like I 

418
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:28,760
wouldn't be able to finish the 
race or being like a minute 

419
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,320
back. 
And so there were a couple of 

420
00:24:31,320 --> 00:24:33,760
days like in those races that 
looked really good on paper, 

421
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,400
like 27 O 7 or 27 O 9. 
I was like, yeah, I was very 

422
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:43,240
close to like really fading and 
I felt like my VO2 and my 

423
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:46,480
anaerobic ability pushed me in 
the 10K. 

424
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,960
But then all of a sudden you 
double that race distance, now 

425
00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,920
you're in 1/2 marathon and it's 
like that's you can't do that. 

426
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,440
You need to be really 
aerobically strong. 

427
00:24:55,440 --> 00:25:00,240
And so it's been pushing the 
mileage up, it's been pushing 

428
00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:04,720
the marathon pace sessions up, 
and that's what's really been 

429
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,080
kind of bridging that gap in the
strength. 

430
00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:10,840
But then yeah, the other aspect 
of it is, you know, how do the 

431
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:13,920
races play out? 
And I think that running, you 

432
00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:17,440
know, going out in like a 420 
mile on the roads in a 10 mile 

433
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:23,720
race feels really hard. 
And really you're that's not a 

434
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,680
pace you're going to maintain 
for 10 miles. 

435
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,680
And you got to learn that like, 
but you also have to be with the

436
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:30,160
pack. 
If you're planning to finish up 

437
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,760
with that pack, you got to go 
out with that pack. 

438
00:25:32,760 --> 00:25:37,840
And so you got to like be 
prepared to just kind of go over

439
00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:41,000
the line and then just hang with
it and, you know, bring your 

440
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,000
heart rate down and keep 
fighting. 

441
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,600
So that's been a big part of it 
is just understanding that and 

442
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,880
then learning about the moves, 
like moves on the roads are just

443
00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:57,240
more dramatic. 
And like, for instance, they're 

444
00:25:57,240 --> 00:26:00,360
unpredictable too. 
Like, I know I was at BAA 10K 

445
00:26:00,360 --> 00:26:03,960
and I was kind of leading the 
race at around halfway, I think,

446
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,000
and feeling very good, kind of 
feeling like I'm pushing it. 

447
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,000
And then we turn into this 
headwind and I figured, OK, 

448
00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:12,240
we're going to kind of like 
chill here a little bit. 

449
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:17,120
And then Gabriel Guyet makes 
this monster move across the 

450
00:26:17,120 --> 00:26:20,240
bridge in Boston and right into 
a headwind. 

451
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:23,040
And so I was just like caught so
off guard because I was like in 

452
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:24,960
what? 
Why does that make any sense to 

453
00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,800
do? 
But I think because it doesn't 

454
00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:30,760
make sense is why it makes sense
in the roads, because the time 

455
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,920
doesn't matter, the pace doesn't
matter, but breaking people is 

456
00:26:33,920 --> 00:26:36,040
what matters. 
And so he's able to do that 

457
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:40,000
pretty well that day and won. 
And so just learning how to do 

458
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,960
that and like using turns, like 
even as simple as like a turn on

459
00:26:44,960 --> 00:26:47,440
the road, you can like surge out
of it. 

460
00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:51,640
And maybe you just crack someone
a little bit mentally when you 

461
00:26:51,640 --> 00:26:54,400
do that, and you do it enough 
times and maybe they've 

462
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
eventually fall off the pack. 
And so those are the things that

463
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:00,080
made Rd. 
Racing fun, now that I kind of 

464
00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,560
understand how to use some of 
those things. 

465
00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:07,160
Yeah, especially you being such 
a fan of the sport and a guy 

466
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:09,200
who, like, studies up on the 
competition. 

467
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,440
Has that part of the marathon 
training been fun? 

468
00:27:12,440 --> 00:27:16,440
You you have to go back and 
rewatch old races to know that. 

469
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,520
I mean, he just pulled out of 
the race, but it's like, what 

470
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:22,080
does Evans Tribet typically do 
in New York City? 

471
00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:25,360
And like, it's like, oh, it's 
the hard move coming off of the 

472
00:27:25,360 --> 00:27:27,600
Queensboro Bridge. 
And so when he dropped something

473
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:28,720
like, how am I going to cover 
that? 

474
00:27:28,720 --> 00:27:31,560
But for you, I mean like now 
you're just sort of like 1 

475
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,440
gaining the experience, but you 
get you have a even better 

476
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:37,600
excuse to go back and watch old 
races. 

477
00:27:37,960 --> 00:27:41,480
Right. 
No, I think so far New York has 

478
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:43,720
been a lot. 
I went out and ran the course. 

479
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:45,880
Yeah. 
And Laura was with me. 

480
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,040
She's raced New York. 
And so she was really good at 

481
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:51,000
kind of like telling me, you 
know, this part of the course, 

482
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:54,120
this is typically what how it 
played out when I was running or

483
00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:56,640
this is typically what will 
happen a lot of times here. 

484
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,960
And so, so far it's been a lot 
of just learning the course. 

485
00:27:59,960 --> 00:28:02,280
Like right now I've been 
watching a lot of the course 

486
00:28:02,280 --> 00:28:04,360
videos. 
I'm really trying to like 

487
00:28:04,360 --> 00:28:07,800
memorize every part of the 
course just so I can really know

488
00:28:08,200 --> 00:28:12,240
where I'm at. 
And then going back and looking 

489
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:14,960
at, you know, where do people 
finish? 

490
00:28:16,000 --> 00:28:18,560
How do they race it? 
That's what's going to be kind 

491
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:21,600
of this next week is honing in 
on that a bit more. 

492
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:25,960
We have a pretty good race plan 
already of like how we want to 

493
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:28,680
attack different parts of the 
course and how we want to 

494
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:34,360
approach kind of like, you know,
if it ends up being like fast 

495
00:28:34,360 --> 00:28:35,840
from the gun, what are we going 
to do? 

496
00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:40,360
If it ends up being tactical 
until 16 miles, like it is a lot

497
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,240
of times, what are you going to 
do then? 

498
00:28:42,640 --> 00:28:46,280
And so really kind of 
understanding the different ways

499
00:28:46,280 --> 00:28:49,480
the race could play out. 
What are we going to do? 

500
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:55,960
I think is important because in 
New York, unlike maybe Chicago 

501
00:28:55,960 --> 00:28:59,720
or some of these faster 
marathons, you can maybe do your

502
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:03,520
own thing a little bit more as 
long as you're confident that 

503
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:07,800
the last 10K you're going to set
yourself up for success. 

504
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,720
I think Clayton showed that a 
year ago that he kind of let 

505
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:16,800
people go down 1st Ave. and then
he really reeled people in, you 

506
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,520
know, 5th Ave. and into the 
park. 

507
00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,080
So there's kind of different 
ways you can can look at it and 

508
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,360
approach it. 
But that's kind of what we're 

509
00:29:24,360 --> 00:29:26,080
doing now. 
And for the first one, I think 

510
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:30,800
we need to be err on that more 
conservative side than being 

511
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:33,440
like very. 
Aggressive, yeah. 

512
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,680
If you need any extra tips from 
like a five time finisher, you 

513
00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:40,720
can always just shoot me a text.
Although like I think 4 out of 

514
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,520
the five times it just has not 
gone well. 

515
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:46,480
So having studied up and seen 
some of the course, as of right 

516
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:49,400
now you haven't raced it. 
Where do you think is going to 

517
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:53,720
be the toughest part? 
I think in the Bronx, you know, 

518
00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:58,840
I think that part of the course 
you're what, 19 to 22 miles 

519
00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,720
about. 
You come off 1st Ave. which is 

520
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,720
typically some pretty big moves 
are made. 

521
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:09,160
People get rolling there and 
then you get to the Bronx. 

522
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,560
I think that it could start to 
hit you a bit there just because

523
00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:16,360
it's a very turny part of the 
course that can break up your 

524
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:21,120
momentum and rhythm quite a bit.
And then you know what's coming 

525
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,200
with 5th Ave. and then the park.
So that could be a hard section.

526
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:32,040
But I think that having run the 
course and expecting that, 

527
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,440
that's one thing I'm really 
trying to think about in 

528
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:37,600
training is like, you know, 
looking at where's the course 

529
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,200
can be hard, asking Helen what 
parts are hard for her and 

530
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,680
talking to Ryan, you know, what 
parts were hard for him a year 

531
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,560
ago. 
And then when I'm doing these 25

532
00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:49,040
mile long runs, you know, 
thinking like, all right, this 

533
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,480
is I'm 16 miles in, like this is
where I'm going to be hitting 

534
00:30:52,480 --> 00:30:54,280
the Queensboro Bridge. 
Like how? 

535
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,240
Like. 
Try and put yourself in that 

536
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:58,880
frame of mind a little bit to 
kind of feel like you've been 

537
00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:01,600
through some of those hard 
sections has been how I'm 

538
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:04,720
approaching it. 
Obviously without racing it, 

539
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:08,000
it's going to be completely 
different, but doing the best I 

540
00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:12,040
can to feel like when I get to 
race day I've I've run the 

541
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:14,880
course and run the marathon. 
Yeah, it's great that you have 

542
00:31:15,480 --> 00:31:19,320
two O 8 marathoner Ryan Ford 
just sort of like next to you in

543
00:31:19,320 --> 00:31:21,120
training. 
But then on top of that, a 

544
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:23,400
previous champion in Helen 
O'berry. 

545
00:31:24,520 --> 00:31:28,720
Now I'm wondering just because 
of like how fast the top end of 

546
00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,840
elite women's marathoners have 
gotten over the last couple 

547
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,960
years, where if you're Helen, 
your PR is one thing on paper, 

548
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:42,360
but you're likely training like 
a 211 runner, 213, two, 12, 

549
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,840
whatever it might be. 
And for you going into your 

550
00:31:44,840 --> 00:31:50,000
first marathon, like how much 
work did you overlap with her? 

551
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:52,240
I'm sure she still has like her 
specific work. 

552
00:31:52,240 --> 00:31:54,760
And then there are certain times
when your paces will be faster, 

553
00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,920
but I'm assuming there there 
must have been quite a good 

554
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:01,520
chunk. 
Yeah, there was some of the long

555
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:04,720
runs, like one of them. 
So we have a route that we made 

556
00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:09,200
in Boulder, Dathan orchestrated 
it, that that a lot of the big 

557
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:12,000
hills line up with the bridges 
in New York. 

558
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,840
And so we have this route that 
we'd love to do for New York. 

559
00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:20,080
And so that one we like did we 
just did a long run? 

560
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:23,800
Like we did 20 miles together 
and then we each had five miles 

561
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:27,320
at marathon effort, which I 
mean, I think Helen was going 

562
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:30,240
pretty much marathon effort. 
But then like for me, I picked 

563
00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:35,040
it up a bit. 
But we haven't overlapped a ton.

564
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:36,400
We've done a few fart licks 
together. 

565
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,320
Like coming off my race, we did 
a fart like together because 

566
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:41,800
Dathan wanted like hold me back 
a little bit. 

567
00:32:43,080 --> 00:32:46,120
But certainly the long run. 
Oh, we did our long run the 

568
00:32:46,120 --> 00:32:49,160
other day together, 17 miles. 
Like the long run she can do 

569
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:56,200
pretty much with me. 
Like she runs 520 pace for 25 

570
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,480
miles. 
And so I'm not going much faster

571
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,880
than that. 
And so she does those pretty 

572
00:33:01,880 --> 00:33:05,760
much with me maybe a little bit 
back, but that's where we link 

573
00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:10,760
up the most. 
And then sessions are a little 

574
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,520
different, like 12, a little bit
different workouts is the thing.

575
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:17,640
I think that for my first build,
like we're talking about, Dathan

576
00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:22,360
really wants to push me on kind 
of that long marathon type 

577
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,120
efforts. 
And Helen being a little bit 

578
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,440
older, having done the marathon,
Dathan wants to keep a lot of 

579
00:33:27,440 --> 00:33:30,640
balance in her legs. 
So she might be doing, you know,

580
00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:36,720
hard K reps and I'm doing like 2
* 10 K just because of like 

581
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:38,720
where we're at in our marathon 
journey. 

582
00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:43,080
So I, I guess we've made it this
far without me having asked you,

583
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:47,240
but what is the goal or like the
benchmark that you guys are 

584
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,560
thinking about right now with 
like a week to go? 

585
00:33:49,560 --> 00:33:52,680
Because you know, it's so easy 
for in the past, so many people 

586
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,960
have been have this is a tough 
course, right? 

587
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,360
Like it's hard to throw out a 
time and how these races play 

588
00:33:58,360 --> 00:34:00,120
out. 
But in the past, there's been 

589
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,920
people like, I want to, you 
know, run the fastest debut ever

590
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,760
by an American. 
And it feels like for you, like 

591
00:34:05,920 --> 00:34:08,320
you've, I mean, you just went 
through this with Houston, but 

592
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,920
are you kind of tapering 
expectations for this first go 

593
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,440
around in the marathon? 
Yeah, I think that the nice 

594
00:34:15,440 --> 00:34:17,840
thing about or the reason I 
chose New York over, say, a 

595
00:34:17,840 --> 00:34:21,120
faster marathon is a little bit 
because of Houston. 

596
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:23,480
Like Houston is very, you know, 
fast and flat. 

597
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:26,440
And I felt like I didn't really 
know what I was doing. 

598
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:31,120
And so I kind of wanted to do 
New York because it's the 

599
00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:33,920
opposite of that. 
Like you take time out the 

600
00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:36,199
window and you're really just 
focusing on racing. 

601
00:34:36,199 --> 00:34:40,440
And so when the fields came out,
obviously on paper it's just 

602
00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:45,840
this incredible field and it can
be a bit overwhelming because 

603
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:48,000
the time doesn't matter. 
You're just racing. 

604
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:51,920
You're racing these thirty other
elite men marathoners from all 

605
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:55,800
over the world. 
And so my initial focus was to 

606
00:34:56,440 --> 00:34:59,440
try and simplify the race plan a
little bit to people. 

607
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,760
I raced a lot and that's mostly 
the Americans, people like 

608
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:08,360
Patrick Dever. 
And when I'm racing like I know 

609
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,080
where I've lined up with them 
this year, we've been like 

610
00:35:11,280 --> 00:35:15,800
pretty even with those guys. 
And so that's where I'm like 

611
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:20,840
looking for like gauging my 
efforts, a big goal. 

612
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:24,280
Like I think the best day, like 
I would consider this like a day

613
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:29,320
would be going for that top 
American spot and then being 5th

614
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:33,400
to 7th place. 
I think it's a little hard to 

615
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:39,000
say because I'm more like racing
for that top American spot. 

616
00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,760
And then I think that's what's 
going to set me up best to do 

617
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:47,040
well overall, because I think 
I'll gauge my efforts in the 

618
00:35:47,040 --> 00:35:50,680
race based on what, you know, 
people like Hillary, Charles, 

619
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:57,520
BIA are doing in the race. 
And then once you get to 2324 

620
00:35:57,520 --> 00:36:01,800
miles, it's you're just going. 
And so mainly using kind of the 

621
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,440
American field to gauge those 
efforts for the first, say like 

622
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:11,400
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623
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663
00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:24,520
kind of had those races in New 
York in the past and is then 

664
00:38:24,520 --> 00:38:27,840
just sort of like even more big 
picture, just like have a good 

665
00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,320
experience and get one on the 
board. 

666
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,440
I I'm coming off of Toronto this
past weekend and like Ben 

667
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,840
Flanagan was like, yeah, I mean,
like I'm going to run for the 

668
00:38:37,840 --> 00:38:40,160
Canadian National title and I 
don't care about the time. 

669
00:38:40,160 --> 00:38:44,240
Like so when you see 215, like 
it does not look sexy 

670
00:38:44,240 --> 00:38:47,520
whatsoever. 
But for him at least it's like, 

671
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,120
all right, well, here's I, I can
learn from this. 

672
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:55,560
Like it's not necessarily like 
the most earth shattering debut 

673
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,240
and performance, but at least 
like this is a starting point to

674
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:00,840
something bigger over the next 
couple years. 

675
00:39:01,560 --> 00:39:03,720
I have big. 
Goals for the race, like I want 

676
00:39:03,760 --> 00:39:07,080
to, I think if you're around 
2:10 in New York, you're going 

677
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:11,480
to be in that top ten, top 8 
range. 

678
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:13,640
And so that's kind of what I'm 
eyeing. 

679
00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:16,080
Like I'm not going to wear a 
watch or care about pace. 

680
00:39:16,080 --> 00:39:20,000
But when I think of like 
training and, you know, OK, do I

681
00:39:20,000 --> 00:39:22,600
think I'm in around this shape? 
That's kind of like where we 

682
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:25,120
gauge a lot of the paces and 
efforts and training. 

683
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:27,920
But then when it comes to the 
race, it's really going to be 

684
00:39:27,920 --> 00:39:31,640
keying off those guys. 
But yeah, like it's like my 

685
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:34,120
first one out. 
That's again why I didn't really

686
00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:38,000
want to do Chicago was like, I 
don't know if I can go out in 64

687
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:40,520
minutes and come back and run 
negative split. 

688
00:39:40,720 --> 00:39:42,960
I didn't want to think about 
whether I could do that or not. 

689
00:39:43,000 --> 00:39:47,200
And so here like a good day, the
time really is irrelevant. 

690
00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,040
It's how are you stacking up 
against everyone on that day? 

691
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:52,560
So I don't know what it can mean
for time. 

692
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,400
I think 10th place has been as 
slow as two, maybe 15 in the 

693
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:59,920
recent years. 
And so if that's the case and 

694
00:39:59,920 --> 00:40:02,520
I'm. 
You know, top American and run 

695
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:07,360
215 then great, you know, but I 
have a feeling if it's a good 

696
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:09,240
day, it's going to be quite a 
bit faster than that. 

697
00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:15,400
No watch really. 
Yeah, You know, I just would 

698
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:18,560
observe Helen in training and 
like, I don't think she ever 

699
00:40:18,560 --> 00:40:22,440
looks at her watch. 
And so I was kind of like, maybe

700
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,360
I don't need it, you know? 
How are you going to log in on 

701
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:29,120
Strava? 
Manual upload I guess, but no 

702
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:31,280
like that was one thing I 
learned in the spring a little 

703
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:36,480
bit was I found myself too 
focused on like the pace, how I 

704
00:40:36,480 --> 00:40:38,720
was feeling and how many people 
were around me. 

705
00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:42,040
And so I say I'm running 430 
pace. 

706
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,960
I'm not feeling that good and I 
have a big pack around me. 

707
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,640
I get a little stressed out like
why are people not falling off 

708
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:50,400
this pack? 
Like this is a hard pace. 

709
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:53,760
And so in Twin Cities for my 
tune up brace, I tried running 

710
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:57,800
with no watch and I felt myself 
so much more engaged in the race

711
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:00,240
and like observing what was 
happening around me. 

712
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:05,720
And I think it helped a lot with
like responding to moves and not

713
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:09,120
caring about what the pace was 
like throwing in surges when I 

714
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,720
felt good and not like thinking 
like I know it's easy. 

715
00:41:13,720 --> 00:41:15,920
I was like in the spring, I was 
like, OK, I'm going to throw in 

716
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:19,000
a one minute surge in this race 
and I'd look at my watch, go for

717
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:22,560
a minute and I didn't like that,
you know that that's not that's 

718
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:25,680
racing with your watch, Like I'm
racing a field of athletes. 

719
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:30,640
And so I liked that like just 
the focus I had by not wearing a

720
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,600
watch. 
So we'll see how it goes. 

721
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:39,080
I mean, I don't even know what 
pace, you know, 210 is. 

722
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,120
And so I don't need to wear a 
watch. 

723
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,840
Yeah. 
No, I mean for you, so much of 

724
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:47,240
this one, right, You didn't wear
a watch on the track when when 

725
00:41:47,240 --> 00:41:50,520
you're racing and then across 
country, like I'm sure there's 

726
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,760
been parts of this training 
block where you're just sort of 

727
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,080
getting flashbacks to especially
training for a race like New 

728
00:41:55,080 --> 00:41:58,000
York where you get just with the
hills and the bridges and all 

729
00:41:58,000 --> 00:42:00,560
that stuff that you're just 
like, all right, like this is 

730
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,840
going to be a cross country race
on the roads. 

731
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:05,000
Yeah, that's a lot how it feels 
and. 

732
00:42:05,360 --> 00:42:08,400
When I'm in. 
Training, a lot of it is just 

733
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:10,000
effort. 
We're on these like dirt, hilly 

734
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,920
dirt roads on this loop where 
you know, you've no clue what 

735
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:16,400
marathon effort is or dates must
say, OK, we're going to do a 

736
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,880
three mile push now at marathon 
effort and like you're not just 

737
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:24,160
going to go run 450 pace because
you're on this like hilly dirt 

738
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:25,640
loop. 
You got to just understand what 

739
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:29,920
that effort is. 
And so correlating that to a 

740
00:42:29,920 --> 00:42:32,640
watch always I think is is not 
always effective. 

741
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:35,560
There's also just sort of like a
little bit of the marathon is 

742
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,160
just a different race from 
anything else that you've done 

743
00:42:39,160 --> 00:42:42,720
so far or that is on this sort 
of like resume leading into this

744
00:42:42,720 --> 00:42:44,720
one. 
I think Clayton Young is like 

745
00:42:44,720 --> 00:42:47,560
the best example where it's sort
of like he can stack all these 

746
00:42:47,560 --> 00:42:50,200
races in the lead up and nothing
looks flashy. 

747
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,520
And you're thinking like, all 
right, I don't see how this 

748
00:42:52,520 --> 00:42:55,720
guy's going to, you know, 
perform on the day and then he 

749
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:58,880
just clutches up like on 
marathon day. 

750
00:42:59,280 --> 00:43:03,080
And I kind of would hope that 
you're looking at sort of the 

751
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:05,360
same thing. 
Yeah, certainly the workouts 

752
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,600
have been like a lot of the 
workouts have been nothing 

753
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:12,160
crazy. 
It's a lot of like stuff at 3 

754
00:43:12,160 --> 00:43:15,640
minute K pace. 
We kind of use three minute K is

755
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,480
just like marathon ish effort 
pace for reps up here. 

756
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:22,520
Like if we're doing 5K reps or 
10K reps, we say, OK, kind of 

757
00:43:22,520 --> 00:43:25,560
start at 3 minute K pace and 
then we'll adjust it from there 

758
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:29,080
based on the route or the hilly,
like the weather, whatever. 

759
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:34,560
And so yeah, like a lot of it 
hasn't been like on the track 

760
00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,560
where you're running, you're 
just hammering these reps down 

761
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:40,680
and it's really like exciting 
when you finish the workout, a 

762
00:43:40,680 --> 00:43:43,520
lot of it's just like you 
finish, you feel pretty good. 

763
00:43:43,800 --> 00:43:45,840
It's a long workout and you're 
just kind of like, all right, 

764
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:50,760
like I guess you know, 5 * 2 
miles at 940. 

765
00:43:50,840 --> 00:43:53,760
Like I don't know what that 
means, but seems like it's, it's

766
00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,400
good. 
And then so there's not like a 

767
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,880
ton of like, you know, you did 
this in training with we know we

768
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:05,480
can go do this on race day. 
The only thing was like, I got a

769
00:44:05,480 --> 00:44:10,280
big confidence from our 25 mile 
runs that we do because we kind 

770
00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,800
of line those up. 
We do them a little bit how we 

771
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,800
want to race the marathon in 
terms of like, all right, from 

772
00:44:17,240 --> 00:44:20,160
the 1st 15K, let's run with this
level of aggressiveness. 

773
00:44:20,160 --> 00:44:24,000
The next 10K, we can be a little
more aggressive here and we take

774
00:44:24,000 --> 00:44:29,000
bottles every 5K. 
And so like we, we really kind 

775
00:44:29,000 --> 00:44:30,880
of mimic the marathon in those 
races. 

776
00:44:30,880 --> 00:44:34,320
And the first one was like, wow,
this is really long. 

777
00:44:34,440 --> 00:44:37,440
And then the second time we did 
25 miles, I was like, OK, like I

778
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,160
feel like I can push a little 
bit, but it's still risky. 

779
00:44:40,240 --> 00:44:44,920
And then our most recent 25 mile
run, I felt like I could just 

780
00:44:45,240 --> 00:44:50,720
push endlessly and felt amazing.
And we ended up throwing on five

781
00:44:50,720 --> 00:44:52,960
miles at marathon effort at the 
end. 

782
00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,520
And it was just like my legs 
were just like bouncing off the 

783
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:58,400
ground feeling amazing. 
And so in that moment I'm like, 

784
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:00,680
OK, this training really is 
coming together. 

785
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:06,080
And so like all these days where
it was hard to judge whether it 

786
00:45:06,080 --> 00:45:09,160
was working or whether it was a 
good workout or not, really did 

787
00:45:09,160 --> 00:45:13,240
feel like it built into this 
ability to push for 25 miles. 

788
00:45:13,560 --> 00:45:17,520
So on the more nerdy technical 
side that people will probably 

789
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,040
gravitate towards, what was the 
highest mileage during this 

790
00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:22,040
training block? 
What were you kind of averaging 

791
00:45:22,040 --> 00:45:24,760
and then longest run? 
Most of the weeks. 

792
00:45:24,760 --> 00:45:28,720
Were 120 to 125, but that's, you
know, Monday to Sunday. 

793
00:45:28,720 --> 00:45:31,520
I had a. 
Few like 7 day stretches that 

794
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:35,440
were 135. 
It was just how the days felt. 

795
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:38,520
But I think I would say the 
average over the 12 weeks, 

796
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,800
excluding the race week is 
probably 120, yeah. 

797
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:46,280
Longest run was 25. 
The longest run was 25, but we 

798
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:52,400
also take one day a week where 
we just run 10K and so primarily

799
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:54,120
most that running is in six 
days. 

800
00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:57,920
There are obviously like some of
the workouts that you upload to 

801
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,160
Strava that everyone can go see 
that just get people talking in 

802
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:04,160
the comment sections, just light
up. 

803
00:46:04,400 --> 00:46:08,200
People start threads just kind 
of talking about how impressive 

804
00:46:08,200 --> 00:46:11,840
it is, like, are you? 
And then I've, you know, the 

805
00:46:11,840 --> 00:46:15,360
same thing happens with Mance. 
And when I've talked to him 

806
00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:19,200
about that kind of stuff, he's 
always like, yeah, I mean, like 

807
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:23,080
some athletes would be would 
feed off of that where it's just

808
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,320
sort of like, oh, the public 
praise thinks that this is 

809
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:28,200
amazing, this is great, like 
amazing workout. 

810
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,120
But then at the same time, he's 
like, but I'm training to run, 

811
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:36,120
you know, 2O42O5, whatever it 
might be. 

812
00:46:36,520 --> 00:46:40,320
And that this is, these are 
probably not all that great and 

813
00:46:40,320 --> 00:46:44,840
electrifying as if you go check 
John Careers, you know, Strava 

814
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:46,880
or anything like that. 
So for you, are you also 

815
00:46:46,880 --> 00:46:49,600
grounded in that sort of vein? 
It's like, yeah, it's nice that 

816
00:46:49,600 --> 00:46:52,840
everyone thinks that these 
things are incredible and but 

817
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,560
like, I've seen crazier stuff. 
Yeah, I think a big part of it 

818
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:59,280
is that not everyone is. 
Sharing, yeah, all their 

819
00:46:59,280 --> 00:47:00,960
workouts. 
So like, yeah, you see what 

820
00:47:00,960 --> 00:47:03,800
Mance is doing, You see maybe 
what I'm doing and it looks 

821
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:07,840
insane compared to maybe a 
college athlete who is sharing 

822
00:47:07,840 --> 00:47:11,840
their training. 
And but then yeah, if you looked

823
00:47:11,840 --> 00:47:16,480
at what all the, you know. 59 
minute and a half marathoners 

824
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:19,680
are doing, it's probably pretty 
in line with what they're doing.

825
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:21,960
A lot of people are doing almost
identical things. 

826
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:25,160
So like, I don't really care 
about it too much. 

827
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,160
I put that stuff out there and 
yeah, people eat it up, people 

828
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:33,040
don't like it, whatever. 
Like it doesn't really affect 

829
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:35,240
me. 
Like I'm very confident in the 

830
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:38,880
training we're doing and the 
program we have with OAC. 

831
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:42,600
And so people can like look at a
workout and maybe they think 

832
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:45,880
it's stupid or don't like it or 
maybe they think it can indicate

833
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:49,040
this kind of fitness doesn't 
really bother me or move the 

834
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:51,880
needle for my ego either way, 
because. 

835
00:47:52,160 --> 00:47:54,120
I think we have a pretty good 
long term plan with what we're 

836
00:47:54,120 --> 00:47:58,800
doing at OAC. 
And yeah, I just like to, I just

837
00:47:58,800 --> 00:48:00,800
share it because why not? 
You know, I guess I've been a 

838
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,720
bit silent on Strava. 
Oh, did you go blackout period? 

839
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:07,600
I shared a few things. 
But my settings got changed and 

840
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:10,880
they stopped sharing my runs. 
So I shared a few of my long 

841
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,360
runs but I haven't shared much 
the last couple weeks. 

842
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,160
But you know, keep people 
guessing a little bit. 

843
00:48:18,520 --> 00:48:22,200
It's been a chilly day here in 
New York City, and it feels like

844
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:24,960
it might be probably like a 
little bit cooler temperatures 

845
00:48:24,960 --> 00:48:28,800
for your race. 
But I know I've just kind of 

846
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,720
seen the trend of everyone still
sauna after workouts and runs. 

847
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,920
Have you did you implement that 
into much of your training this 

848
00:48:36,920 --> 00:48:39,600
time around? 
Yeah, it's kind of funny. 

849
00:48:39,600 --> 00:48:43,400
Like I grew up in Minnesota 
where probably every house has a

850
00:48:43,400 --> 00:48:47,200
sauna. 
And so when I got when we we 

851
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,200
just finished our basement and 
we put a sauna in there. 

852
00:48:51,240 --> 00:48:55,880
And it's funny like seeing it 
blow up as this like training 

853
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:59,400
thing where like I've always 
just used sauna as something I 

854
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,240
enjoy to do at the end of the 
day. 

855
00:49:01,800 --> 00:49:05,720
And so I hate the idea of like, 
like I do sauna pretty much 

856
00:49:05,720 --> 00:49:09,840
every day, but I don't look at 
it as like a training thing. 

857
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:12,040
Like if I looked at Sauna's 
training, I wouldn't enjoy it 

858
00:49:12,040 --> 00:49:13,720
anymore. 
Like I do sauna just because I 

859
00:49:13,720 --> 00:49:16,720
purely enjoy it. 
And I guess the fact that it is 

860
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:21,640
good for your training and heat 
adaptation and all that is 

861
00:49:21,640 --> 00:49:25,440
great, but so. 
You're not rushing after a run 

862
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:28,640
to jump in there, it's more of a
end of the day type thing. 

863
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,920
No, I will if it's a cold day, 
but not like if it's a cold run.

864
00:49:31,920 --> 00:49:34,560
I'll go in the sauna after, but 
that's because I'm cold and I, I

865
00:49:34,560 --> 00:49:36,880
want to warm up. 
I actually have the Sony going 

866
00:49:36,880 --> 00:49:39,480
right now because I just 
finished running and lifting. 

867
00:49:39,480 --> 00:49:43,280
But no, I don't, I, I, I 
couldn't look at it as like 

868
00:49:43,480 --> 00:49:46,360
pushing myself. 
OK, I need to do 25 minutes 

869
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:49,520
today and tomorrow I'll do 26 
minutes because I would lose all

870
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:53,360
the enjoyment of that's would be
taking a big piece of my 

871
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:55,960
enjoyment away from it. 
How's your feeling? 

872
00:49:56,320 --> 00:49:59,400
Feeling is good. 
I think that's one thing I 

873
00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:04,400
really focused on this block was
like talking with sports 

874
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:08,640
scientists who our team works 
pretty closely with Morton, like

875
00:50:08,640 --> 00:50:10,680
just emphasizing how important 
it is. 

876
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:15,440
And maybe even from their 
perspective, like Summit, like 

877
00:50:15,680 --> 00:50:18,960
people still aren't realizing 
like how much even more fuel can

878
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:22,320
help them. 
I think that I'm someone who has

879
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,040
a very strong stomach. 
And so I was like, well, if 

880
00:50:25,040 --> 00:50:27,720
you're telling me more is 
better, then I'm just going to 

881
00:50:27,720 --> 00:50:31,800
go and take as much fuel as I 
possibly can on these runs until

882
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:35,680
something bad happens. 
Like I throw up in New York, we 

883
00:50:35,680 --> 00:50:41,200
get 7 bottles and I've just, I'm
just doing 55 grams of carbs per

884
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,640
bottle and 40 milligrams of 
caffeine. 

885
00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:49,440
So it'll be like 160 to 170 
grams an hour, which I think is 

886
00:50:49,440 --> 00:50:52,120
a lot higher than most athletes 
can handle. 

887
00:50:52,120 --> 00:50:55,840
But it's kind of what we learned
from trial and error, this bill 

888
00:50:55,840 --> 00:51:01,280
that works for me. 
I stomach it well and feel 

889
00:51:01,280 --> 00:51:03,440
amazing. 
Like I finished my 25 mile run 

890
00:51:04,040 --> 00:51:07,320
and I was like just blown away 
by how good my legs felt. 

891
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:10,600
I couldn't believe it. 
Like the feeling really is like 

892
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:15,520
life changing in terms of how 
good you can feel after sessions

893
00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,920
if you do it right. 
The City of Smack podcast is 

894
00:51:18,920 --> 00:51:22,000
presented by Gnomeo. 
You know that feeling when your 

895
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,240
legs just click? 
When the training's feeling 

896
00:51:24,240 --> 00:51:27,920
smoother, recovery comes faster 
and race day hits just right? 

897
00:51:28,240 --> 00:51:32,120
That's what Gnomeo's built for. 
Through training and all the way

898
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:36,080
to race day, Gnomeo helps unlock
one more performance. 

899
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:39,560
You can run, bike, or ski faster
at the same effort 2. 

900
00:51:39,920 --> 00:51:42,560
Better recovery. 
You get fresher legs after those

901
00:51:42,560 --> 00:51:47,600
brutal sessions, and three 
faster training gains get more 

902
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,520
out of every workout. 
Athletes using Gnomeo talk about

903
00:51:51,520 --> 00:51:54,560
lighter legs, being able to push
harder, and no bonking even 

904
00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:56,920
during intense efforts. 
And if you look at their 

905
00:51:56,920 --> 00:51:59,200
Instagram page, you'll see a 
comprehensive list of some of 

906
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,600
the athletes using Gnomeo in 
their training, including the 

907
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:05,760
likes of Cole Hawker, Andreas 
Almgren, Clayton Young, Nico 

908
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,120
Young, and so many more. 
So what's actually happening? 

909
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:12,120
Well, as I'm getting back into 
my own training, I'll share some

910
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,480
of my own personal testimonials 
on the podcast in a few weeks on

911
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,680
how Gnomeo is working for me. 
In general, Gnomeo supports your

912
00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:22,720
performance and recovery from 
the inside out. 

913
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:26,520
It acutely reduces lactate 
during exercise, meaning you can

914
00:52:26,520 --> 00:52:28,680
hold the same pace with less 
burn. 

915
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,920
It enhances your muscle 
adaptation, helping your body 

916
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,760
get stronger and faster. 
And it up regulates your body's 

917
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,800
natural defense system to 
protect muscles from fatigue and

918
00:52:38,800 --> 00:52:41,440
oxidative stress. 
Use it consistently. 

919
00:52:41,760 --> 00:52:44,880
And those benefits compound 
session after session. 

920
00:52:45,320 --> 00:52:49,200
So here's how to use it. 
Before big workout or race, you 

921
00:52:49,200 --> 00:52:52,200
take one shot about 3 hours 
before go time. 

922
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,520
During heavy training blocks, 
you take one shot daily, same 

923
00:52:55,520 --> 00:52:57,640
timing. 
And on those especially grueling

924
00:52:57,640 --> 00:53:01,120
days, a second shot before bed 
can help recovery overnight. 

925
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:04,920
What makes Gnomeo special is 
nearly a decade of science 

926
00:53:04,920 --> 00:53:07,080
behind it. 
It all started at the Karolinska

927
00:53:07,120 --> 00:53:10,800
Institute reading back in 2009 
when researchers began studying 

928
00:53:10,800 --> 00:53:13,240
the powerful effects of 
compounds found in cruciferous 

929
00:53:13,240 --> 00:53:15,240
vegetables like broccoli and 
kale. 

930
00:53:15,240 --> 00:53:18,320
These compounds activates your 
body's defense system and boosts

931
00:53:18,320 --> 00:53:21,000
energy production in your cells,
helping you handle the stress of

932
00:53:21,000 --> 00:53:23,560
hard training. 
In clinical studies, athletes 

933
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,280
supplementing with these 
compounds saw reduced muscle 

934
00:53:26,280 --> 00:53:30,160
damage, lower inflammation and 
better training adaptations and 

935
00:53:30,200 --> 00:53:33,240
lower lactate levels. 
Then came the breakthrough. 

936
00:53:33,400 --> 00:53:35,840
The team figured out how to 
stabilize those compounds, 

937
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:39,360
unlocking their full potential. 
And that's the science behind 

938
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:41,880
Nomio. 
Nomio takes that research and 

939
00:53:41,880 --> 00:53:45,360
turns it into a simple, powerful
shot that helps you perform 

940
00:53:45,360 --> 00:53:47,840
better and recover faster. 
There are just three 

941
00:53:47,840 --> 00:53:50,520
ingredients. 
It's 80% broccoli sprout juice, 

942
00:53:50,920 --> 00:53:55,720
15% lemon juice and 5% sugar. 
It's nature meets science almost

943
00:53:55,720 --> 00:53:58,600
a decade in the making. 
Help to make you feel lighter, 

944
00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,360
go harder and come back 
stronger. 

945
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:03,280
For anyone running the New York 
City Marathon, listen up 

946
00:54:03,680 --> 00:54:07,280
Gnomeo's available in North 
America via the feed and Citius 

947
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,720
Mac podcast. 
Listeners can get 15% off using 

948
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:11,920
promo code CITIUS 15 at 
checkout. 

949
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:17,360
That's Citi US15 at the feed. 
If you hit the link in the show 

950
00:54:17,360 --> 00:54:19,800
notes, you'll go directly to the
landing page with all of the 

951
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:22,280
details about. 
Gnomeo and so much more. 

952
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:29,800
Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. 
All right, And then tied to all 

953
00:54:29,800 --> 00:54:34,280
of this too, Sidious Mag podcast
now being sponsored by Gnomeo. 

954
00:54:34,360 --> 00:54:36,880
I'm giving it a try right now. 
I'm still sort of in like the 

955
00:54:36,920 --> 00:54:39,440
the testing phase, adding it 
into just sort of, I'm getting 

956
00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:42,240
back to track workouts and so 
figuring that whole thing out. 

957
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:44,920
But you've been a proponent of 
this for a while. 

958
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:50,080
Explain to me your routine, what
you found from using it and like

959
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:52,760
how it fits into how it fits 
into the bigger picture of 

960
00:54:52,760 --> 00:54:54,440
everything. 
Right. 

961
00:54:54,600 --> 00:54:57,280
So at first I was a bit of a 
skeptic of the the product, you 

962
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,840
know, I was like, what is this? 
But I got it and started using 

963
00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:06,120
it and then I'll use it like 2 
hours before 2 pretty much every

964
00:55:06,120 --> 00:55:07,600
workout. 
They suggest 3 two to three 

965
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,000
hours. 
OK. 

966
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:10,680
Two to three hours, yeah, like 
I'll get up and have it because 

967
00:55:10,680 --> 00:55:15,280
our workouts are pretty early, 
but every workout I'd implement 

968
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:17,560
what I'm going to do on race day
into the workout. 

969
00:55:17,560 --> 00:55:20,960
So my routine every morning is 
same breakfast, everything I do 

970
00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,920
before the workout is what I'm 
going to do in New York. 

971
00:55:22,920 --> 00:55:28,160
So Gnomeo 3 hours before I do 
buy card two to three hours 

972
00:55:28,160 --> 00:55:32,360
before and then I'll have Gnomeo
before bed and for recovery. 

973
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,400
But. 
I wasn't a huge. 

974
00:55:34,400 --> 00:55:36,880
Believer and I just did it 
because they had sent it to me 

975
00:55:36,880 --> 00:55:41,080
at first and then Sage started 
using it and she used it at 

976
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:45,840
USA's for the first time between
her rounds and she was like 

977
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,160
blown away by how fresh she felt
through the rounds. 

978
00:55:49,160 --> 00:55:51,640
And obviously that could just be
fitness and training, but. 

979
00:55:52,080 --> 00:55:53,880
She was like. 
You know, this was a new thing 

980
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:55,280
she was trying and it really 
helped her. 

981
00:55:55,360 --> 00:55:57,040
And then she did the same in 
Tokyo. 

982
00:55:57,040 --> 00:56:00,000
And like, so now we have that 
helped me really believe in it a

983
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:01,320
lot. 
I'm like, OK, I know she's the 

984
00:56:01,320 --> 00:56:05,280
fittest she's ever been, but 
also she starts using this, you 

985
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,240
know, this new product and has 
the best race of her life. 

986
00:56:08,240 --> 00:56:10,400
You know, maybe I should keep 
using it as well. 

987
00:56:10,400 --> 00:56:14,440
So yeah, I've been using it 
every workout, every long run. 

988
00:56:15,120 --> 00:56:17,320
Yeah, From a recovery 
standpoint, it feels like that's

989
00:56:17,320 --> 00:56:20,560
where I think a lot of people 
are noticing just sort of like, 

990
00:56:20,560 --> 00:56:22,920
all right, take it an hour 
before bed and then the next 

991
00:56:22,920 --> 00:56:27,480
morning's workout, like you feel
a bit more pop and you feel 

992
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,880
better versus just sort of like 
taking it before the workouts. 

993
00:56:30,880 --> 00:56:33,960
I guess on my in my first two 
trials is that I was like, am I,

994
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,320
should I be monitoring my heart 
rate like? 

995
00:56:36,720 --> 00:56:39,400
And So what were sort of like 
the data points you look for in 

996
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:43,200
workouts after taking it? 
Yeah, To your point with the 

997
00:56:43,200 --> 00:56:47,200
recovery, I think that one thing
I did notice in these Rd. races 

998
00:56:47,200 --> 00:56:50,120
with these longer workouts was 
like when I was going to bed, my

999
00:56:50,120 --> 00:56:52,360
legs would be more achy like my 
muscles. 

1000
00:56:52,360 --> 00:56:56,760
And so when I would take the 
Gnomeo, I wouldn't have that as 

1001
00:56:56,760 --> 00:56:57,920
much. 
And so I'd sleep quite a bit 

1002
00:56:57,920 --> 00:57:00,200
better just because it would 
eliminate some of that like 

1003
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,280
achiness fatigue. 
So that was like one of the 

1004
00:57:03,280 --> 00:57:05,960
biggest reasons I like taking it
in the evening. 

1005
00:57:07,400 --> 00:57:10,360
But in the workouts it's, it's 
hard to say because now I've 

1006
00:57:10,360 --> 00:57:13,480
been taking it for every workout
and every long run. 

1007
00:57:13,480 --> 00:57:16,680
So it's kind of my baseline and 
I've been taking that through my

1008
00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:18,440
whole build. 
So I've been getting fitter my 

1009
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,520
whole build so it's like hard to
know, I guess. 

1010
00:57:21,520 --> 00:57:24,360
I did one workout this build. 
It was one of our bridge 

1011
00:57:24,360 --> 00:57:27,440
workouts and I didn't do any of 
that because I was like, OK, 

1012
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:29,240
this is just an easy bridge 
workout. 

1013
00:57:29,680 --> 00:57:33,080
Let's just sleep in and not do 
any of the pre race stuff. 

1014
00:57:33,080 --> 00:57:36,320
This one and it was the worst 
workout I had all build, so 

1015
00:57:37,040 --> 00:57:40,000
that's my only point of evidence
that it does work. 

1016
00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:43,360
Yeah, all right, well, people 
can get it 15% off. 

1017
00:57:43,360 --> 00:57:46,080
They use Citius 15 at checkout 
when they visit the feed. 

1018
00:57:46,160 --> 00:57:48,640
Great organic ad read plug 
there. 

1019
00:57:48,640 --> 00:57:50,360
All right. 
What shoes are you rocking for 

1020
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:54,240
this one? 
Cuz you went with the laceless 

1021
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,640
ones, the 3D printed ones in 
Houston, right? 

1022
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,840
So I wore those. 
In cherry blossom and they're on

1023
00:58:01,840 --> 00:58:06,160
has like 3 super shoes and all 
spring I was cycling through the

1024
00:58:06,160 --> 00:58:09,360
three to like determine which 
one I like the best And I feel 

1025
00:58:09,360 --> 00:58:12,360
like after every race I was like
oh if I were to worn that one 

1026
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:15,440
today would have gone better. 
And like it's probably not true 

1027
00:58:15,480 --> 00:58:19,040
but at the beginning of the 
build I just said this is the 

1028
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,520
shoe I'm wearing for every long 
run, every workout and I'm 

1029
00:58:21,520 --> 00:58:24,840
sticking to it. 
So I'm wearing the cloud boom 

1030
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,720
strike, the non light spray 
version, just the normal version

1031
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,520
and I'm not questioning it. 
So yeah. 

1032
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:35,760
Is that what Helen's also gonna 
go for or something special? 

1033
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:38,320
Helen is gonna be wearing the 
light spray. 

1034
00:58:38,320 --> 00:58:39,040
Nice. 
OK. 

1035
00:58:39,120 --> 00:58:40,640
Yeah. 
I mean, I feel like at this 

1036
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:43,840
point it's just her signature at
these medications. 

1037
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:45,000
Yeah. 
All right. 

1038
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:50,160
So final question I guess I've 
got is envisioning crossing the 

1039
00:58:50,160 --> 00:58:53,480
finish line in Central Park. 
I mean, you've gone and run the 

1040
00:58:53,480 --> 00:58:55,680
course. 
Have you gone all the way up to 

1041
00:58:56,000 --> 00:58:58,680
the finish line in Central Park?
So I went last year, I had a 

1042
00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:01,480
double last night, or last year 
when I was in New York for the 

1043
00:59:01,480 --> 00:59:05,160
marathon and I was running in 
Central Park and Sage was biking

1044
00:59:05,160 --> 00:59:07,560
with me and we ran by the finish
line and took a photo. 

1045
00:59:07,560 --> 00:59:10,880
But that's the only time I've 
like seen. 

1046
00:59:10,880 --> 00:59:15,240
This you go cross or no. 
It was all blocked off, so no. 

1047
00:59:15,240 --> 00:59:17,320
All right, there's people who 
are super scitious about that 

1048
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,240
kind of thing. 
Yeah, yeah, I'm not. 

1049
00:59:19,240 --> 00:59:22,720
Superstitious about it, but. 
I was able to see it and then in

1050
00:59:22,720 --> 00:59:25,040
the lead vehicle a year ago, we 
had to, you know, pull off 

1051
00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:27,120
before you go. 
Back oh, so they've kept you 

1052
00:59:27,120 --> 00:59:31,120
from from crossing this finish 
line so far all right so 

1053
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:36,280
envisioning that moment, you 
know, next Sunday like what what

1054
00:59:36,280 --> 00:59:39,120
are the you know, aside from 
time place and all that kind of 

1055
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:41,920
stuff but what are you the the 
feelings you're hoping to have 

1056
00:59:42,160 --> 00:59:43,760
after that? 
Yeah, I think. 

1057
00:59:43,760 --> 00:59:47,840
That when I look at the race 
next Sunday, like I'm most 

1058
00:59:47,840 --> 00:59:52,880
excited about just executing 
from mile 1 to 26.2, like I 

1059
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,320
haven't really thought about the
finish. 

1060
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:58,400
And clearly I have my goals for 
the race, but it's like I'm 

1061
00:59:58,400 --> 01:00:01,600
hoping in that moment I can just
be like, OK, Like I execute my 

1062
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:03,880
fueling. 
Like I didn't get carried away 

1063
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:08,240
with any of the pacing. 
You know, I kept my governor on 

1064
01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:10,080
when I was supposed to in the 
race. 

1065
01:00:10,080 --> 01:00:13,240
And like, I just think if I do 
all these things, I can get to 

1066
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:16,880
that point in the race and. 
Be feeling pretty positive 

1067
01:00:16,880 --> 01:00:18,280
because hopefully I'm having a 
good day. 

1068
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:22,880
Like I think on paper the plan 
we have is I think we'll do 

1069
01:00:22,880 --> 01:00:26,560
really well like just these long
runs following this plan like 

1070
01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,400
it, I have so much confidence in
it that it's going to work. 

1071
01:00:29,520 --> 01:00:32,800
And so the only way it doesn't 
work in my mind is if I don't 

1072
01:00:32,800 --> 01:00:35,280
execute. 
So kind of my big like mantra 

1073
01:00:35,280 --> 01:00:38,960
for the whole weekend is just 
execute like do what we've done 

1074
01:00:38,960 --> 01:00:41,360
in practice and this is going to
work. 

1075
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,400
And so I haven't thought about 
like, you know, kicking into the

1076
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,760
park or anything like that 
because that's going to take 

1077
01:00:47,760 --> 01:00:50,880
care of itself. 
If I execute, you know, mile 22 

1078
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,320
and if I execute mile 21, that's
going to make mile 22 better 

1079
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,320
like etcetera, like working from
the start, just execute each 

1080
01:00:58,320 --> 01:01:01,440
bottle station, each section of 
the course. 

1081
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:03,600
And I think it's going to be 
like very positive. 

1082
01:01:03,600 --> 01:01:07,440
Do you want to finish with more 
or less than you do when you 

1083
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:12,840
finish one of these 27-O710K? 
Hopefully more. 

1084
01:01:12,880 --> 01:01:17,720
Because those have been pretty 
trashed and like, feeling like 

1085
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,320
I'm not going to finish the 
road. 

1086
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,560
Like hopefully I can be in a 
point where I'm not. 

1087
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:28,080
Maybe I've already passed the 
people I'm going to pass and no 

1088
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,240
one's close enough to pass me. 
So I can enjoy, you know, 

1089
01:01:31,240 --> 01:01:33,680
running back into the park there
for that last point, too. 

1090
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,480
What's your plan for a 
celebration after? 

1091
01:01:36,480 --> 01:01:39,560
It's big pizza guy, so New 
York's got the best to. 

1092
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,560
Offer. 
Yeah, well, I'm already like 

1093
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:45,200
planning out pizza for the whole
weekend. 

1094
01:01:45,760 --> 01:01:47,880
What are the spots so far that 
have been bookmarked? 

1095
01:01:47,880 --> 01:01:49,960
Because at this point, like 
you've done enough trips that 

1096
01:01:49,960 --> 01:01:54,680
like you've hit major spots. 
Yeah, I, I kind of lean on on 

1097
01:01:54,680 --> 01:01:57,440
Tom for a lot of them because 
he, he knows a lot of spots, but

1098
01:01:57,440 --> 01:01:59,480
it depends on where you're 
staying too, you know, like this

1099
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,040
time we'll be in Midtown. 
Makes the pizza a little bit, a 

1100
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,200
little bit tougher when you're 
in Brooklyn. 

1101
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:07,880
It's just amazing everywhere. 
But yeah, definitely get a lot 

1102
01:02:07,880 --> 01:02:10,760
of pizza. 
But then I'm staying in New York

1103
01:02:10,760 --> 01:02:13,200
for a couple extra days after 
the race and going to the 

1104
01:02:13,360 --> 01:02:17,120
Timberwolves versus Nets game on
Monday, so that would be a fun 

1105
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:18,320
celebration. 
Perfect. 

1106
01:02:18,640 --> 01:02:21,120
Well Joe, wishing you all the 
best of luck. 

1107
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,640
I'll see you at the pre race 
press conference, get your final

1108
01:02:24,640 --> 01:02:30,520
thoughts before, but the work is
pretty much already done and 

1109
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:32,160
should be an exciting day. 
Yeah. 

1110
01:02:32,200 --> 01:02:35,600
Thank you. 
Thank you all for listening to 

1111
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:37,440
this episode. 
This episode was produced by 

1112
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,920
Jasmine Fair. 
I love doing this for you guys. 

1113
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:42,920
So please do me a favor and 
leave a five star view on Apple 

1114
01:02:42,920 --> 01:02:45,080
Podcast or Spotify. 
That helps us grow the show and 

1115
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:47,920
get even more awesome guests. 
Let me know what you're enjoying

1116
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:49,880
about the show. 
Make sure you're subscribed or 

1117
01:02:49,880 --> 01:02:51,600
following on your favorite 
podcast. 

1118
01:02:51,600 --> 01:02:54,080
Players, please share this 
episode with your friends if you

1119
01:02:54,080 --> 01:02:56,440
think that they'll get any value
or inspiration out of it. 

1120
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,520
Let's build this thing together.
Visit cityofsmack.com for a lot 

1121
01:02:59,520 --> 01:03:00,800
more. 
We've got a brand new website 

1122
01:03:00,800 --> 01:03:02,920
with tons more articles, videos 
and podcasts. 

1123
01:03:03,160 --> 01:03:04,920
As always, I love track and 
field. 

1124
01:03:05,000 --> 01:03:07,000
I'm Chris Chavez, see you next 
time.