1 00:00:01,400 --> 00:00:05,000 This episode of the City Smack podcast is presented by USA 2 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:07,720 Track and Field. All right, if you love speed, 3 00:00:07,840 --> 00:00:11,360 power, and championship moments, lock in right now. 4 00:00:11,640 --> 00:00:14,800 The USATF Indoor Track and Field Championships presented by 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:19,000 Prevagen are back in New York City from February 28th through 6 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:22,280 March 1st at the Ocean Breeze Athletic Complex in Staten 7 00:00:22,280 --> 00:00:24,480 Island. This is where legends don't just 8 00:00:24,480 --> 00:00:27,760 race, they punch their ticket to the world stage. 9 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:30,560 The pressure's reel. The margins are razor thin and 10 00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:34,800 every athlete is fighting for one thing, a spot on Team USATF 11 00:00:35,080 --> 00:00:37,120 at the World Indoor Championships. 12 00:00:37,480 --> 00:00:39,240 The star power? Unreal. 13 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:42,360 You'll see the likes of Olympic champion Noah Lyles, Olympic 14 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,080 champion Cole Hawker, Olympic medalist Jasmine Moore, world 15 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:49,640 record holder Hobbes Kessler, world champion LA Saint Pierre, 16 00:00:50,160 --> 00:00:52,320 US record holder Sinclair Johnson. 17 00:00:52,520 --> 00:00:55,600 I can go on and on and on. This meet sells out every single 18 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,920 year because when the fastest and the strongest athletes on 19 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:00,640 the planet show up, there's nowhere to hide. 20 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:04,200 No bad seats, no second chances. So don't wait. 21 00:01:04,319 --> 00:01:09,400 Grab your tickets now at usatf.org/tickets and experience 22 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,560 track and field and it's absolute loudest. 23 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,600 What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs Mag 24 00:01:17,600 --> 00:01:19,640 podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,000 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 26 00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:24,960 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 27 00:01:24,960 --> 00:01:27,760 and behind the scenes, from world class athletes and coaches 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:31,360 to innovators shaping the sport. If it's happening on the track, 29 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:34,280 we're covering it with real insights that sharpen minds, 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,800 deep dives into the moments that define careers and the kind of 31 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:40,800 access to the pros you won't get anywhere else. 32 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,400 So let's get into it because we love track and field. 33 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:48,280 Before we get into today's episode, we wanted to take a 34 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:52,080 moment to say thank you. This show exists because you 35 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,720 listen, you share it with your friends, and you care about the 36 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,480 sport the same way that we do. So truly, we're grateful that 37 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,560 you're here with us. If you've been enjoying the 38 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:03,480 podcast, leaving a five star review on Apple Podcast really 39 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:05,560 does make a difference. It helps new listeners find the 40 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:07,760 show and keeps this whole thing moving forward. 41 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,520 Here's one recent review that we loved. 42 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,600 The banter is back. I've been listening for a long 43 00:02:13,600 --> 00:02:17,160 time now and with the whole crew back together at Melrose, Yay 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,240 Kyle. It was exactly what we all 45 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,200 needed. The banter and analysis is 46 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:23,440 perfection. That one's from Sedarama. 47 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:25,800 To everyone listening, thank you. 48 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,400 And if you feel the same way as Cider on taking a minute to 49 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,160 leave, a five star review on Apple Podcast is one of the best 50 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,200 ways to support the show. We love every single one and 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:41,160 they genuinely mean a lot to us. My guest for today's episode is 52 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:43,240 Ethan Shuley. And if you don't know his name a 53 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:46,440 few weeks ago, you're not alone. But after what he just did this 54 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:49,480 past weekend in Osaka, Japan, the entire American distance 55 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,120 running community is paying a little bit more attention to 56 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:55,040 him. At the Osaka Marathon, Ethan ran 57 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:59,000 two O 714, finishing 14th overall and suddenly becoming 58 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,640 the seventh fastest American marathoner ever on a record 59 00:03:02,640 --> 00:03:05,440 eligible course. He doesn't have a sponsorship. 60 00:03:05,480 --> 00:03:09,040 He's not part of any professional team, never won an 61 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:12,760 NCAA title, in fact only ever ran one race in college. 62 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,960 He's just a runner who up until recently was training largely on 63 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:20,560 his own while living in Japan and going to film school. 64 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:24,560 And that's what makes this story just so much more remarkable. 65 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:28,760 His path to Two O 7 just does not follow any sort of 66 00:03:28,760 --> 00:03:32,040 traditional pathway. After a promising high school 67 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:37,320 career in Kentucky, injuries derailed his time at BYU and 68 00:03:37,320 --> 00:03:39,440 then he stepped away from competitive running all 69 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:42,560 together. Running was a couple casual 70 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,280 miles here and there, and then once he moved to Japan, he had 71 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,840 an interest in ultra marathons. And then this realization, 72 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,000 almost accidentally, that he was starting to get fit again. 73 00:03:53,240 --> 00:03:57,680 And from there the progression was steady and pretty stunning. 74 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,520 He broke 15 for the 5K for the first time. 75 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,560 He ran 220 for his debut marathon. 76 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,760 Well, not really his debut. He had run another marathon 77 00:04:05,760 --> 00:04:10,360 before, but this first one in Japan was definitely a turning 78 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:13,520 point. So he ran 220, then 218, then 79 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:18,959 211, a 63 minute half marathon 61 later on, and finally this 80 00:04:18,959 --> 00:04:20,720 breakthrough that changed everything. 81 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:26,040 Ethan finds himself not just fast right now, but relative to 82 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,200 the conversation looming ahead to the 2028 US Olympic Marathon 83 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,080 Trials. In this episode, we talk all 84 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,120 about this unconventional journey, the training that he 85 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:39,400 built up largely outside of any sort of traditional system, and 86 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:42,680 what it feels like to go from an unknown to pretty high up on the 87 00:04:42,680 --> 00:04:45,360 all time list basically overnight. 88 00:04:46,040 --> 00:04:48,720 Without further ado, here is Ethan Shuler. 89 00:05:02,120 --> 00:05:05,800 Before this past weekend, wasn't paying enough attention, had no 90 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:09,160 idea who you were, and now you're sitting here with a 91 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:14,360 2/07/14 marathon personal vest, seventh fastest American of all 92 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,800 time. If we even go back couple months 93 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:22,280 ago, a year, a year or two ago, you didn't have ideas of running 94 00:05:22,280 --> 00:05:27,320 pro, who was Ethan truly before Osaka if you were to ask that 95 00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,240 question? I guess it depends how far you 96 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:32,600 go back. Yeah, it's kind of evolved a lot 97 00:05:32,600 --> 00:05:36,120 over the last year. But if you were to ask me say, 98 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,880 like when I came to Japan, I I didn't really have any 99 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,720 aspirations of going pro. I did have an interest in doing 100 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:46,520 like ultra running. But as far as that, I mean, it 101 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,280 was more just to be competitive, you know? 102 00:05:48,680 --> 00:05:50,640 All right, so we're going to touch on so many different 103 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:54,640 elements of your setup in Japan, how you got there. 104 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:57,400 But I got I guess we got to start with the fact that for a 105 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,080 lot of people your name is familiar because you were a high 106 00:06:00,080 --> 00:06:04,160 school standout out of Kentucky raced yard and a goose way back 107 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,640 in the day. What were your memories of, you 108 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:09,920 know, high school running and where did you want to take the 109 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,400 sport? I started taking tracking cross 110 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:17,040 country seriously my probably end of my or middle of my 111 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,400 freshman year, so that I was doing an initially to stay fit 112 00:06:20,400 --> 00:06:22,320 for soccer. I think that's kind of a lot of 113 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:27,520 runners origin stories, but I did well in regionals and state 114 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:29,520 my freshman year. So I was like, if I take this 115 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:34,800 seriously, I can progress. And yeah, my, my sophomore in 116 00:06:35,960 --> 00:06:39,680 junior year, I did really well. I I battled some injuries 117 00:06:39,680 --> 00:06:41,760 constantly throughout high school. 118 00:06:42,560 --> 00:06:46,240 But yeah, I started to like, compete really well in the state 119 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,200 level and even had some opportunities kind of beyond 120 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,440 that. But I wanted to compete 121 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:56,840 collegiately and just unfortunately I wasn't able to 122 00:06:56,840 --> 00:07:01,640 race my senior track season. So I wasn't really sure what was 123 00:07:01,640 --> 00:07:05,040 going to happen, you know, going into college. 124 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:08,360 But for the most part, like I really wanted to be competitive 125 00:07:08,360 --> 00:07:10,520 and like race against some of the best. 126 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:14,240 You had crossed that senior year and then no track. 127 00:07:14,240 --> 00:07:17,400 What was that injury, I guess that knocked you out as a senior 128 00:07:17,400 --> 00:07:19,080 in high school? It was kind of a mix of two 129 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,240 things. So after state and cross 130 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:25,120 country, I was just kind of burnt out just with like 131 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,600 injuries. So I decided not to run Foot 132 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:32,440 Locker, which my parents were like, why are you doing this? 133 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,760 Like you're really fit. You could easily make it. 134 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:36,880 But I was just kind of burnt out. 135 00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:43,360 And then I I decided to do track my senior year in December, but 136 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,880 I had like Achilles tendonitis that took me out the whole 137 00:07:46,880 --> 00:07:49,360 season. So I wasn't able to 138 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:53,640 unfortunately like improve my track times, which I did 139 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:56,600 actually do a visit to BYU and Ice Stone. 140 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:00,200 He wanted me to run roughly like under 410 for the mile. 141 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,880 And I was close my junior year, but I wasn't able to 142 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:06,440 unfortunately race. So, So what if you know? 143 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:11,200 So you did decide to go to BYU, but at that point, like still no 144 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,400 plans of running for the actual team, right? 145 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:15,640 Yeah, yeah. So I, I grew up Mormon. 146 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,520 So like I wanted to kind of be in that environment, like just 147 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:21,560 have be in an environment with like similar people, similar 148 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,000 values. And I also was at the time I 149 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,000 wanted to go, I went on a mission. 150 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,280 And like with BYU, it's just like very easy because they 151 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,640 facilitate that very easily. I decided I wanted to still go 152 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,000 to BYU. Also also the tuition is very 153 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,880 cheap. So me not being on scholarship, 154 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,120 it was kind of for me a no brainer. 155 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:45,840 So yeah, I went to BYU. You decided to go on your 156 00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:50,360 mission between high school and the start of your freshman year. 157 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:53,560 You end up getting to go to Ukraine, I guess. 158 00:08:53,640 --> 00:08:58,280 Tell me about that experience. Yeah, so for those who don't 159 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,520 know, like you don't get the pick where you want to get sent. 160 00:09:00,680 --> 00:09:02,800 It's like the lottery. You just kind of open up a 161 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:04,440 letter and they tell you where you go. 162 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:08,440 And I had no idea where Ukraine was on a map. 163 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,160 And at the time, you know, obviously everyone knows about 164 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,880 Ukraine now, but it just was a very different situation. 165 00:09:15,360 --> 00:09:19,880 So like there was like some unrest in like, Kiev at the time 166 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:22,800 with the protests. So my first memory is my uncle, 167 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,440 he sent me a send me a picture of a tank driving through like 168 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:28,400 Ukraine's, like, this is where you're going, man. 169 00:09:30,000 --> 00:09:31,560 But no, it was a good experience. 170 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:33,000 Like I love the Ukrainian people. 171 00:09:34,280 --> 00:09:38,720 I was in the West side, so kind of away from Donetsk and kind of 172 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:41,520 where the war is going on more on the western side, closer to 173 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:44,640 Poland, so. You have to focus on your 174 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,000 mission while you're there and all the duties and stuff that, 175 00:09:48,160 --> 00:09:50,880 you know, I guess go into it from hearing Connor and 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:53,640 Clayton's stories of going on their missions and then Connor 177 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:56,480 was Ghana, Clayton was North Carolina. 178 00:09:57,040 --> 00:09:59,480 Really. I guess like you're not able to 179 00:09:59,560 --> 00:10:01,400 go on a run. You have like, I guess your 180 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,920 companion running is not at the forefront of your mind. 181 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:06,680 I think the Wall Street Journal did a whole article where I mean 182 00:10:06,680 --> 00:10:09,640 Connor and Clinton came back like 30 lbs heavier from their 183 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:13,960 missions and was running. Just sort of totally gone from 184 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:16,840 your mind in those two years. For the most part, I mean, 185 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:19,960 because you're always with someone, it really depends on 186 00:10:19,960 --> 00:10:23,520 that person. So like I had one person who 187 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,760 just absolutely hated working out. 188 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:29,320 So I didn't work out. Like it just I wasn't going to 189 00:10:29,320 --> 00:10:31,680 force them everyday to go outside because it just would 190 00:10:31,680 --> 00:10:34,320 ruin our relationship. So it's just like, all right, 191 00:10:34,320 --> 00:10:37,960 well, just do nothing or I'll do like core inside. 192 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:40,440 But you know, you can't. It's just really difficult. 193 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,280 So yeah, it's just it isn't really a focus either. 194 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:47,000 So yeah, you kind of just don't really think about it. 195 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,200 And when you come back, you're told, I guess, by someone who's 196 00:10:50,200 --> 00:10:53,360 like, hey, like they were holding your spot on the team. 197 00:10:53,600 --> 00:10:55,200 What did you think at that point? 198 00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,920 Yeah, well, so I came back and it'd been a couple days and I 199 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:03,640 was, I was actually just in like getting into cycling, you know, 200 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,120 low impact and just get some like kind of get back into shape 201 00:11:08,120 --> 00:11:09,840 after not working out for two years. 202 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:15,360 But I got a text from Danny Carney on Instagram and he's 203 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,160 like, hey, we're having camp like pretty soon, just want to 204 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:21,960 make sure you're coming. And I was like, really shocked. 205 00:11:21,960 --> 00:11:23,040 I was like, what are you guys talking about? 206 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:26,520 I had no idea that they saved the spot for me on the team 207 00:11:26,560 --> 00:11:30,040 because all I had done in between those two years is I, I 208 00:11:30,040 --> 00:11:34,440 sent an e-mail to ISON saying, hey, I'm going on my mission to 209 00:11:34,560 --> 00:11:38,960 Ukraine and I'll be back. I'm probably will try running 210 00:11:38,960 --> 00:11:41,400 again. But that's all I really said. 211 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,600 And then when I came back, apparently they saved the spot. 212 00:11:43,600 --> 00:11:46,160 So I was really shocked by that. Did you go to the camp? 213 00:11:46,880 --> 00:11:48,560 Yeah, yeah, I went. How'd it go? 214 00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:51,960 It was, well, as you can imagine. 215 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,880 Not not easy. Like, obviously for the return 216 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,800 missionaries, there's kind of like a different protocol for 217 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,120 getting back into shape because you can't like, run with the 218 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:04,800 normal, like the top guys at all. 219 00:12:05,120 --> 00:12:08,280 So yeah, I mean, and to be honest, I never really got back 220 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,880 into the mojo of things after my mission at BYU because I just 221 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,400 felt like, you know, I'd come back from injury and then just 222 00:12:15,400 --> 00:12:18,520 get pounded in the ground just running hard all the time so. 223 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:22,480 So then more injuries, I guess, start to pile up, I guess, while 224 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:23,720 you're at BYU. What were those? 225 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,840 Was it because you had Achilles tendonitis, I guess while you 226 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,760 were in high school? Was that recurring too? 227 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:33,080 Yeah. So my freshman year I was 228 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:36,320 training for like roughly, I want to say three months, four 229 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,120 months or so. Got a KYOA tendonitis again, was 230 00:12:40,120 --> 00:12:46,040 out for maybe five months. Then I kind of got back. 231 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:51,000 I got into pretty decent shape that summer 'cause I was just 232 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,080 doing a lot of cross training. I did a triathlon and then I 233 00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,840 came back. I worked a little bit with the 234 00:12:55,840 --> 00:13:00,800 farm team, which is kind of like their team to help you like walk 235 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:04,280 on to BYU. Isaac Wood I met, I remember him 236 00:13:04,280 --> 00:13:06,520 telling me, hey, you're good enough to get back on the team. 237 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:12,360 So that fall, I think roughly August, kind of right around, 238 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:14,680 right around when they have their cross country camp again, 239 00:13:15,440 --> 00:13:20,120 I got back on the team and trained and that whole cross 240 00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:22,640 country season went relatively well. 241 00:13:22,920 --> 00:13:26,240 Like I was able to finally get relatively fit, not have any 242 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:30,040 injuries. Then we entered winter track 243 00:13:30,040 --> 00:13:33,760 season indoor and I did one race. 244 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:37,720 But after that race, literally only race, yeah, my only race in 245 00:13:37,720 --> 00:13:43,840 BYU uniform, I got injured and that was kind of the end for me. 246 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:50,280 After that, it was just I had another a Kiwi's injury and I 247 00:13:50,280 --> 00:13:52,600 was out for four months and I just couldn't take it anymore. 248 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,960 So I decided to quit the team. How hard was that decision? 249 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,360 It was very hard, you know, up until then, like, like running 250 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,400 was a big part of my life. And it was almost like I had a 251 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:07,400 identity crisis and I was like, what do I do with all my free 252 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,120 time? You know, that's kind of how I 253 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,400 kind of stumbled into language learning and studying Japanese. 254 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:15,920 But yeah, it was just like I didn't really know what to do at 255 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:19,520 the time and I was kind of a big transition period for me. 256 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:24,520 When we made the Instagram post just a day or two ago about your 257 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,880 race, I guess like now this explains, I think a couple of 258 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,640 the comments to me where you're like, it was like farm team 259 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,600 legend or whatever it was. And this makes so much more 260 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:34,640 sense. All right, So after you quit the 261 00:14:34,640 --> 00:14:38,240 team, you still obviously end up graduating from from BYU. 262 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,360 When does the film school component start to? 263 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:44,800 Seep into things. I've only been in the school for 264 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:49,520 a little under a year before changing my major to Japanese. 265 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:52,400 I was actually in the BYU film program. 266 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,080 I got accepted into the major, but I quit the program and 267 00:14:57,080 --> 00:15:00,280 switched to Japanese. But I didn't start the film 268 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:07,160 school till last April. I quit my job here in Japan and 269 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,560 end of March and then moved here. 270 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,440 I've been doing that since. But yeah, I came to Japan 271 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,400 through the JET program, which some people may be familiar 272 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:21,520 with, but I was working in Kobe in Japan as a coordinator of 273 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:26,720 international relations at just one of their major government 274 00:15:26,720 --> 00:15:28,800 offices here. So when you were at BYU and you 275 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,120 make the switch to major in Japanese, what was sort of like 276 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,680 the career focus that you were thinking from from that point? 277 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,320 The the bad part was I wasn't really thinking about that. 278 00:15:39,320 --> 00:15:43,160 I was just doing something I was interested in, which I was kind 279 00:15:43,160 --> 00:15:47,080 of concerned about, as I was during graduation. 280 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:49,480 I was very fortunate it worked out. 281 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:53,520 But really it was more just it was something I could put a lot 282 00:15:53,520 --> 00:15:57,160 of time into and enjoy it. When I quit running, I tried a 283 00:15:57,160 --> 00:15:59,960 lot of different things to just have like an interest in 284 00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:02,000 something, but none of it really worked. 285 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,000 And this, this was like the first thing I actually enjoyed. 286 00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,960 But yeah, at the beginning I didn't really consider what 287 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,040 would be a good idea, which not smart, but. 288 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,280 I tried binging all of your YouTube videos before this ran 289 00:16:15,280 --> 00:16:18,480 out of time in one of them. I think like it might be your, 290 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,920 your second video where you're asking people on the street 291 00:16:20,920 --> 00:16:25,680 about dating apps and in Japan. Like I it's you're, you're 292 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:28,760 fluent and like, I guess what did it take to get to to that 293 00:16:28,760 --> 00:16:30,920 point? Yeah, a lot of hours of 294 00:16:31,280 --> 00:16:35,000 listening and reading. It's funny because like now like 295 00:16:35,280 --> 00:16:39,040 I live here and I don't study nearly as hard or really much at 296 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,560 all compared to when I was like at BYU. 297 00:16:43,920 --> 00:16:48,160 But yeah, I mean, Japanese is way harder than I thought it was 298 00:16:48,160 --> 00:16:52,440 going to be. And I can tell you now I have, I 299 00:16:52,440 --> 00:16:56,560 will, I have absolutely 0 interest and studying another 300 00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,800 language ever again so. So when you did your mission 301 00:16:59,800 --> 00:17:03,240 like you'd like Ukrainian and all that, like you didn't pick 302 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,760 much of that up before. So Ukrainian. 303 00:17:05,760 --> 00:17:10,480 I studied, of course, Ukrainian, Russian, and I was like, OK, on 304 00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:13,040 the mission, but to be honest, I didn't know how to really study 305 00:17:13,040 --> 00:17:15,880 a language well. So even when coming back, I 306 00:17:15,880 --> 00:17:18,560 didn't really feel like I was that great at the language. 307 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:22,960 But Japanese coming to this, like I actually wanted to be 308 00:17:22,960 --> 00:17:26,880 like really good. So I changed my whole approach 309 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,960 to studying the language and obviously had a lot of people 310 00:17:30,960 --> 00:17:33,120 help me along the way to get better. 311 00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:37,200 So you're fluent in English and Japanese and anything else? 312 00:17:37,200 --> 00:17:41,360 I mean yeah my Ukrainian sucks pretty bad so I would just say 313 00:17:41,360 --> 00:17:43,920 English and Japanese. Gotcha. 314 00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:47,840 All right, so let's get to the point of you graduate 2023. 315 00:17:47,840 --> 00:17:51,440 When do you board a plane to get to to Japan? 316 00:17:51,560 --> 00:17:58,800 After graduation, I kind of just did like a 2 month stint, like I 317 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:03,720 did a home stay in Tokyo kind of really soon after graduation. 318 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:05,960 And that was your first ever trip there or? 319 00:18:06,120 --> 00:18:08,920 It wasn't my first, no. So my first time I went to Japan 320 00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:13,840 was in 2016, many years ago. But this was like to kind of 321 00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,160 experience Japan not working and just like get a feel for the 322 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,120 country before actually living there because I'd already been 323 00:18:21,120 --> 00:18:24,080 accepted in the JET program. So I knew I was going to work 324 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,320 somewhere in Japan. Was there for two months, came 325 00:18:27,320 --> 00:18:30,840 back briefly to the States, and then I finally moved out there 326 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:35,480 in August of 2023. I was just there for Worlds, for 327 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,680 whatever it was, I think like 2 1/2 weeks. 328 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,600 And the overwhelming feeling I had was I could live here for a 329 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:47,440 year and feel like I haven't even scratched 1% of what Tokyo 330 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:50,320 has to offer. And that's just in Tokyo. 331 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:55,080 So in your first year living in in Japan, what were the 332 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:57,640 impressions of the difference between visiting and then 333 00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:00,320 actually like, OK, no, but this is my day-to-day, everyday. 334 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:03,160 Life, well, I mean, everyone tells you this, but like living 335 00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:07,040 there and traveling, there is a world of difference because you 336 00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,120 have to live with. There's a lot of things that 337 00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:12,800 are, I mean, obviously I love Japan, but there's also a lot of 338 00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,920 things I don't like about Japan as well. 339 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:21,160 So like dealing with finding an apartment and like the banking 340 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:24,600 here don't really enjoy. So like all the like tedious 341 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:26,440 things. And then top on top of that, you 342 00:19:26,440 --> 00:19:29,480 have to deal with like doing it in a foreign language, which 343 00:19:29,480 --> 00:19:34,200 makes it complicated and also like working here. 344 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,880 It was my first. It's kind of weird, like I never 345 00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:39,120 experienced working full time in the States. 346 00:19:39,200 --> 00:19:41,480 My first experience was working here. 347 00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,800 It was really hard for me to like figure out what's normal 348 00:19:45,720 --> 00:19:48,480 and what's just like cultural differences and stuff. 349 00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:52,240 So I don't know, it was, it was just a very bizarre experience. 350 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,440 You go there by yourself, like is it hard to make friends? 351 00:19:55,440 --> 00:19:58,280 I think at that point, like how did you do socially? 352 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:01,320 I'll be honest, like the first six months was very difficult 353 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,640 for me because like my job at my job. 354 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,480 Most of the people I interacted with were a lot older. 355 00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:11,360 What I realized is you have to be very proactive about it when 356 00:20:11,360 --> 00:20:14,440 you first move, probably anywhere, not just Japan, but 357 00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,760 like anywhere. If you are a foreigner going to 358 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:20,600 a new place, you just have to be kind of proactive about making 359 00:20:20,600 --> 00:20:23,520 new friendships. And the difference is here in 360 00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:26,880 the States, I feel like now with this latest post pandemic 361 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:30,200 running boom, a 20 year old can move to New York and be like, 362 00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,240 all right, if I want to make friends, I'm just going to go. 363 00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:34,440 And if they have like an interest in fitness, I'm going 364 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:35,480 to go to a run club. Right? 365 00:20:36,040 --> 00:20:40,200 Does how much of that exists in in Tokyo and in in Japan? 366 00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:43,320 So in Tokyo, it's actually, I feel like it's probably no 367 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,320 different. Like there's lots of run clubs 368 00:20:45,360 --> 00:20:46,960 the place. So I lived in Kobe. 369 00:20:46,960 --> 00:20:48,960 So it's a little bit different from Tokyo. 370 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:51,720 There's not like as many, but even in Osaka there's like 371 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,800 plenty. So I would say now, like if I 372 00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,200 were to redo my whole Japan experience, I would have for 373 00:20:57,200 --> 00:21:00,360 sure made a point to do that way sooner. 374 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,360 At that point, when you when you got to Japan, running still 375 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:05,400 hadn't popped right back into the. 376 00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:07,880 Your forefront, right? Yeah, yeah. 377 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,560 So like at the time I was running, of course, but like, I 378 00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:15,280 wasn't doing it like incredibly I I was doing it seriously, but 379 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,360 like not at the same level at all. 380 00:21:17,360 --> 00:21:22,080 And it, my goals were different. So yeah, I just didn't go about 381 00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,200 it the same way. You initially pivoted towards 382 00:21:25,280 --> 00:21:28,400 trail ultras and that side of things. 383 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:30,480 Why? I, I think the biggest reason 384 00:21:30,480 --> 00:21:33,480 that was probably influenced by like people like David Goggins, 385 00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:36,040 Courtney Dewalter, like I saw a lot of stuff on social media and 386 00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,240 I'm like, that looks really cool. 387 00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:42,000 And the other big reason was because I, I thought in my mind, 388 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:45,200 like maybe the reason I got injured was not because of the 389 00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,400 distance, but because of the intensity of my training. 390 00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:52,320 So like if I could do like, you know, eighty 100 miles a week, 391 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,080 but it's all like 8 and 30 mile pace. 392 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,560 I'm like, I'll be fine. That was my thought. 393 00:21:57,920 --> 00:21:59,800 That was my rationale going into it. 394 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:05,920 So that's why I tried like doing ultra in Japan, and that's kind 395 00:22:05,920 --> 00:22:08,320 of why I started training more seriously. 396 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:11,920 In the years without having that intensity, when it came to like, 397 00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,320 all right, I got to go hammer a track workout and do all of this 398 00:22:15,320 --> 00:22:17,520 super fast stuff. You also, I guess like 399 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:20,760 mentioned, trying new things. Part of that is probably 400 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,520 strength training and more time in the actual sort of gym. 401 00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,640 How much did that sort of help to get your body to this point 402 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:31,000 where, OK, if you're going to tackle the ultra scene and then 403 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,240 eventually the marathons, like that whole part needs to be 404 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:37,440 stronger to avoid like all these injuries that you've had before? 405 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:40,200 One of the biggest questions people ask me now is like, what 406 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:41,960 do you, what have you done to like improve? 407 00:22:41,960 --> 00:22:45,440 And I'm just like, it's a whole world of difference between what 408 00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:48,280 I do now and like what I did in high school and college. 409 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:52,720 Because in college, like there was so many things that did like 410 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,200 completely wrong that I think attribute to my injuries such as 411 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:00,920 not feeling properly before and like during long runs and stuff, 412 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:05,680 strength training, like I had this really intense stretch 413 00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:09,040 routine, like static stretching before my runs I would do. 414 00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:11,560 I'm just looking back on like, why did I do that? 415 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,480 There's just like a lot of things and I think trying new 416 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:19,680 things and just now, like when I go about strength training, I 417 00:23:20,120 --> 00:23:22,560 don't do like a standard strength training approach that 418 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,680 I would normally do in the past. It's like, how can this benefit 419 00:23:25,680 --> 00:23:29,960 my marathon training? You attempted 100, Miller, and 420 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,240 you dropped out at 60, I think it was. 421 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:36,880 Yeah, it was like roughly 60 miles, but the problem was not 422 00:23:36,880 --> 00:23:39,360 so much the distance, it was the elevation gain. 423 00:23:39,800 --> 00:23:46,000 I mean you are literally running down in a like descending 424 00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:52,200 mountains and just the amount of damage I on my legs was just 425 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,480 insane. So moralizing, getting past like 426 00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,440 all these 60 year old like Japanese women like on the trail 427 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,880 and they're just like looking so fresh and I'm just, my feet are 428 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:07,400 like destroyed. Does it start to point you back 429 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,560 towards Rd. racing in the marathon after you experienced 430 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,480 you gave all right trails and ultras like a go? 431 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,240 But yeah, like the curiosity leads you back to to the roads 432 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:20,600 again. So not initially like after the 433 00:24:20,600 --> 00:24:24,360 race, it was more just I was very mad I couldn't finish and I 434 00:24:24,360 --> 00:24:27,680 was like, all right, I got to get, I got to get fitter because 435 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,600 obviously what I've been doing is not enough. 436 00:24:31,840 --> 00:24:34,760 And to be honest, going into that race I had injuries. 437 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,080 So like, I knew it wasn't like in perfect form, but like I was 438 00:24:38,080 --> 00:24:40,280 really just wanting to have a good race. 439 00:24:40,840 --> 00:24:47,240 So I got back in the training that winter and I started to 440 00:24:47,240 --> 00:24:50,400 increase my mileage. And I think really it was more 441 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,120 just I had a curiosity of like trying some like speed workouts. 442 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,760 As I started implementing more intensity, I just started to get 443 00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:01,800 a lot faster, really to the point where I was like pretty 444 00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:05,680 close to my college times. I was like, wow, I haven't 445 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,360 really even trained that hard and I'm already getting pretty 446 00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:13,240 close to my times in college. So that spring I had signed up 447 00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:17,480 for the Hakodate marathon, which is a summer marathon in Japan. 448 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:22,400 So that's, that was my first like shift, I guess in training. 449 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,680 I had an interest in not just ultras, but like actually a 450 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:31,000 marathon. And that spring I, I did like 451 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:36,040 break 15 in the 5K for the first time and that was like for me 452 00:25:36,040 --> 00:25:38,120 that was really big. And I was like, OK, I can 453 00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:41,040 definitely get a lot faster if I keep training hard. 454 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,480 At that point you'd already run a marathon before, right? 455 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:49,240 If I'm remembering us kind of correct, like 2021 Provo ends up 456 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:53,200 being your debut. You, your dad I guess, wanted to 457 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,320 break three. You helped out and then ended up 458 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,800 running 246. I love how even when you know, 459 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,280 there's the World Athletic site and all that stuff, it gets 460 00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:04,040 lost. But when someone asks, sort of 461 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:06,800 like your first marathon, you do point to this 246. 462 00:26:06,880 --> 00:26:12,880 Yeah, yeah, I, I wasn't like doing much running at all, but 463 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:17,120 my dad was gonna do that race and unfortunately he got injured 464 00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:20,680 like halfway through his build, but he's like, you're still 465 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:22,840 training for it, so might as well still do it. 466 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:24,880 So I'm like, yeah, I guess that's true. 467 00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,520 Ran a 246. It's a pretty downhill course, 468 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:32,280 but yeah, I only ran three times a week. 469 00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:37,840 And I, I knew like if I would ever do marathons in the future, 470 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:42,240 like I would probably be decent. Yeah, excellent click bait for 471 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:44,040 your YouTube channel if you ever wanted to do a video. 472 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:47,680 How I went from 240-6207. Yeah. 473 00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:51,360 Great thumbnail. You'll get a good hit rate on 474 00:26:51,360 --> 00:26:53,120 that. So you brought up the spring 475 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:56,880 marathon, but I guess I don't see this one on like your your 476 00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:59,480 record because then the next one I see is 2024 Nara. 477 00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:01,760 Did you end up getting to that one? 478 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,960 Yeah. So no, I got injured, OK. 479 00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:07,760 And I wasn't able to do that race. 480 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,800 I was really, really depressed about it because I'd worked 481 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,920 really hard just to get in shape for that. 482 00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,960 Like a lot of the things people like say now that they know 483 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:20,680 about me is like he's doing all this high mileage, how is he not 484 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,120 dealing with injury? The real story is I still have 485 00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:24,600 dealt with injury the whole time. 486 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:28,640 It's just I've been better at coming back from it and like 487 00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:32,160 limiting the limiting the amount of injuries I have. 488 00:27:32,360 --> 00:27:36,080 So that was spring 2024, right? Yeah, yeah. 489 00:27:36,320 --> 00:27:40,360 That's the same time that two of your former teammates, like, end 490 00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,480 up going 1-2 at the US Olympic marathon trials. 491 00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:46,280 Like, where were you? I guess watching the 24 trials, 492 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:47,800 Yeah. Yeah, no, I was. 493 00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,720 I was definitely watching Clayton and Connor 'cause I had 494 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:55,840 just gotten back into marathon and I saw them run really well. 495 00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:57,680 I was like, wow, that's really cool. 496 00:27:58,880 --> 00:28:04,440 I even remember buying like a six meta speed edge super like 497 00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:07,760 super shoes for the first time just 'cause I, I saw Clayton 498 00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:11,160 like run really well in those shoes in the trials. 499 00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,720 So I was, yeah, I was definitely inspired by them. 500 00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:18,040 But the thought hadn't crossed your mind of like, all right, 501 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:19,720 next go around, I'll be at the next trial. 502 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:24,520 No, no, no. No, I mean, I, I thought like 503 00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:26,400 maybe it'd be really cool to compete. 504 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:30,240 Like I wanted to compete, of course, but my goals have 505 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,240 shifted like every race, so. That sets it up perfectly to 506 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,120 discuss what the goal was and then sort of like the execution 507 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:42,720 of these next couple marathons. So 2024 Nara marathon, hilly 508 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:46,680 course, fast day. What gave you the belief that 509 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,000 you could run a fast marathon because you end up running 220? 510 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:52,360 So up until this point, like I had been dealing with lots of 511 00:28:52,520 --> 00:28:55,920 injuries and I'm like, this is my last real attempt. 512 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,880 Like at the time this I was telling myself this is my last 513 00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,000 real attempt at a marathon. I told myself, I'm just going to 514 00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,440 give it 100%. I just want to see how good I 515 00:29:04,440 --> 00:29:09,400 can do. So I trained to what I thought 516 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:14,640 would be my Max like limit, which was 100 miles a week with 517 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:19,560 like workouts. And yeah, I did as much like 518 00:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,160 recovery as I possibly could. I did a lot of sauna training 519 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:29,880 and coming to coming into the race like every tune up race 520 00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,840 that I did before the big marathon, it was my times were 521 00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:38,160 like continuing, getting faster. I trained in Kobe, which is a 522 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,600 very hilly area. So like I knew I was ready for 523 00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:43,360 the course. It was more just like, can I 524 00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:45,800 hang with these dudes in the race? 525 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:49,080 So. Tons of corporate teams and the 526 00:29:49,080 --> 00:29:53,360 Japanese running culture is pretty well documented. 527 00:29:53,760 --> 00:29:57,280 Are you doing most of this work and this training for Nara by 528 00:29:57,280 --> 00:30:00,920 yourself and like what did or did you eventually find people 529 00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,160 to work with? And the Nara build specifically, 530 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:08,600 I did most of the training by myself, but I did actually do a 531 00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,200 few workouts with a team. So there was some guys that were 532 00:30:13,200 --> 00:30:17,960 like pretty similar level and fitness at the time, so I was 533 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:21,280 able to work out with them for that build specifically. 534 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,920 What have you made of just sort of like the Japanese running 535 00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:29,160 culture and then in addition to that, just like they're the 536 00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,240 marathon for them is just in such high regard. 537 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,880 The biggest thing I can tell you, like they're just so 538 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,040 hardcore. Like they wake up, like for our 539 00:30:39,040 --> 00:30:43,680 training run, we would wake up and like I would wake up at 4:45 540 00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,280 in the morning on Saturday, which I'm like this is my only 541 00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:50,400 day off to wake up at 4:45 to train with these guys. 542 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,160 But yeah, they just, they do like loops on this track and 543 00:30:55,160 --> 00:31:01,400 we're going like 6 to 8 miles and yeah, they just grind it 544 00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,400 out. They let they like to do it. 545 00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,040 Obviously. It's very chill, like before and 546 00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,520 after, but like once it's go time they're like we're going to 547 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,200 work hard. So you rent 220. 548 00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,720 What did that signal to you? No, yeah, that was a big, that 549 00:31:16,720 --> 00:31:20,360 was a huge experience, like turning point for me because 550 00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:26,000 after Nara I realized, you know, if I keep, you know, I have, I 551 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:29,600 haven't trained super long and like if I keep training, I could 552 00:31:29,600 --> 00:31:34,040 definitely improve my time and, you know, maybe win a race 553 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:37,640 because Nara was a very hilly course. 554 00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,720 I wasn't, I was not expecting to run 220. 555 00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,040 I thought I was more like, I thought I was going to be more 556 00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:47,920 like 222, two, 23. So for me that was like a big 557 00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:53,720 indication that I could really do better if I have some more 558 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:55,240 quality training and consistency. 559 00:31:55,680 --> 00:31:58,040 Once you get to Japan and you jump into any of these races, 560 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:02,560 just like simply going for the win is is given the depth like 561 00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:06,240 such a huge like goal, it's probably honestly a harder goal 562 00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,400 than going for a time. Yeah, well, The thing is you 563 00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:13,200 have to pick your races because like, not like certain races for 564 00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,600 sure. Like if I would have picked Kobe 565 00:32:14,600 --> 00:32:18,120 Marathon, which is funny because I actually tried to get into the 566 00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:21,360 Kobe Marathon the year I did Nara, but I didn't get in. 567 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,480 I had no time to like prove I could run anything. 568 00:32:26,480 --> 00:32:31,360 I did Nara because it was like a little bit less competitive, but 569 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,640 for me it was like perfect level and like looking back, the depth 570 00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,160 here isn't absolutely insane. So it is very tough to win. 571 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:43,760 Even now I like I'm getting destroyed by always a Japanese 572 00:32:43,760 --> 00:32:46,240 dude. He's like so hard. 573 00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,440 So it takes us to 2025 Nagano Marathon. 574 00:32:50,680 --> 00:32:53,120 What was the goal going into to this one? 575 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:58,320 Initially the goal was to like, yeah, podium go, like try to go 576 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:01,800 for the win. But the problem was in January I 577 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,320 had a little bit of an injury issue, so I was out for a whole 578 00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:07,040 month. But was it this time? 579 00:33:07,640 --> 00:33:12,440 It was a key always issues. Not all my injuries have been a 580 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:15,880 key always issues, but like usually those are the ones that 581 00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:17,760 like are not possible to train through. 582 00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:25,280 So I was out for a whole month and as I came back I really was 583 00:33:25,280 --> 00:33:28,720 not sure like what I was going to be able to do. 584 00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:33,200 There was only like 2 months left of the build once I came 585 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,400 back and I just was taking it week by week. 586 00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,920 To be honest. I also I wanted to be with the 587 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,800 top group. But yeah, coming race day, it 588 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,520 was very hot and I was kind of worried about the fact they're 589 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:49,160 going to go out at 2:00 and 9:00 pace. 590 00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,040 So yeah, they, they already said they're going out in like 2 O 9. 591 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:58,400 I'm like, it's a bit hot pace wise and temperature. 592 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:03,000 But anyway, I I decided to run my own race and it unfortunately 593 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:06,160 did not go well for me. Well, I feel like there's a 594 00:34:06,160 --> 00:34:07,680 probably a drop off, right? It's all right. 595 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,360 Leaders want to go out of two O 9. 596 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,679 There's no two 18215 pace group, right? 597 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,880 Well, yeah, that's the, that's the crazy thing is. 598 00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:19,880 So I knew that they were going to go out hard and probably all 599 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:24,000 die like midway into the race. But the problem was because 600 00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,560 they're all pros, like they are still good and they didn't die 601 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,360 till like mile 23, mile 24. So like I was passing people 602 00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:33,920 like crazy the last couple miles. 603 00:34:33,920 --> 00:34:37,639 But for the whole race I ran like solo, yeah. 604 00:34:37,639 --> 00:34:39,880 So it was a miserable experience. 605 00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,520 But the result on paper does look nice. 606 00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:49,040 It's a it's a 21813 PB 5th place overall and like that looks 607 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:51,159 good. From there. 608 00:34:51,199 --> 00:34:54,440 I think this is around the time then this performance is what 609 00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,280 ultimately leads you to reach out to Isaac Wood. 610 00:34:57,720 --> 00:35:01,360 Not quite. So I but like after this race, 611 00:35:02,640 --> 00:35:07,040 it did kind of like motivate me to work harder because I was, I 612 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,160 know it looks good and like I was happy to PR like you can't 613 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:14,760 ever complain with APB. But like I knew I was fitter 614 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,800 than the result showed. I think just poor race tactics 615 00:35:20,040 --> 00:35:23,360 were kind of the bigger issue for me in that race. 616 00:35:23,760 --> 00:35:28,240 So I was really motivated toward like do like better for my next 617 00:35:28,240 --> 00:35:30,920 race. Yeah, I unfortunately had more 618 00:35:30,920 --> 00:35:34,360 injuries that summer. It was not my key always. 619 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:39,760 It was my shin at Shin's once. But I was out for a little bit. 620 00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:45,720 But then I came back to Utah for my I was on spring break and I 621 00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,120 hadn't, I just wanted to visit family in Utah. 622 00:35:48,120 --> 00:35:53,440 So I went out to Utah to train with some of the old BYU guys 623 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,880 and I was in decent shape at the time. 624 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:59,680 So like, I would join like the BYU guys on their long runs and 625 00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,200 then train with the farm team or I guess they're called the OTQ 626 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,480 group now. But yeah, I trained with Adam 627 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,160 Wood and Michael Audison a few times and Isaac Wood reached out 628 00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:12,720 to me. So like, I actually, I was doing 629 00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:17,880 my own workouts up until maybe two weeks into my training in 630 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:20,320 Utah. And he said he's like, he 631 00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,520 reached out and said, hey, you're doing very well. 632 00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:27,040 If you want to ease the burden of not having to like, create 633 00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,640 your own workouts each week, I can help you out. 634 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:33,000 And I was like, sure, yeah, that'd be great. 635 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:34,400 So. Yeah, because where were you 636 00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:38,320 pulling your workouts from before for for Nagano, for Nara? 637 00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,560 Like who devised the training? I would look at the top guys on 638 00:36:42,560 --> 00:36:47,160 Strava and just like obviously you have to adjust it, but I 639 00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:49,640 would do some more stuff and just kind of create my own 640 00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,040 workouts. This episode of the Sidious Mag 641 00:36:55,040 --> 00:36:59,240 Podcast is presented by Ollipop. 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It absolutely shook. 653 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,560 Me. Now obviously that led to a few 654 00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:42,760 laughs every time I ordered a Shirley Temple at a bar or 655 00:37:42,760 --> 00:37:46,160 restaurant, but even now that I'm 21, I definitely haven't 656 00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:49,640 outgrown the craving. And that's where Ollipop steps 657 00:37:49,640 --> 00:37:51,680 in. Ollipop Shirley Temple is a 658 00:37:51,680 --> 00:37:54,720 modern, grown up take on the classic, made with a bright 659 00:37:54,720 --> 00:37:58,640 blend of tart cherry, white grape, lemon and lime, plus 660 00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:01,000 Ollipop signature prebiotic formula. 661 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:04,400 It's sweet without being overpowering, refreshing without 662 00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:07,640 being boring, and way more interesting than the sugary 663 00:38:07,640 --> 00:38:10,560 original. Each can has just 4 to 5 grams 664 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,200 of sugar, 50 calories, and all the fun of the drink without the 665 00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,960 sugar crash. And honestly, we know runners 666 00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:20,400 appreciate tart cherry too. You can find Ollipop Shirley 667 00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:23,920 Temple at retailers nationwide right now, or head to Drink 668 00:38:23,920 --> 00:38:28,120 ollipop.com, where Sidious Mag podcast listeners get 25% off 669 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:31,920 with the code Sidious 25. It's not just the runner's soda. 670 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:34,320 A big throws guy like me loves it too. 671 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:43,120 Ollipop Poly throws approved. You leave Utah and go back to 672 00:38:43,120 --> 00:38:46,440 Japan, I guess where, where were you headspace wise when it came 673 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:49,160 to just sort of like, all right, I want to because if you came so 674 00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:53,920 close to giving it one shot, one last shot in the marathon, you 675 00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:56,920 had enough hits at this point. What was the next sort of 676 00:38:56,920 --> 00:38:59,160 definition of success you set for yourself at that point? 677 00:38:59,920 --> 00:39:05,440 Yeah, so in Utah after like training in Utah, I felt like I 678 00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:11,640 was very fit and I wanted to try to win the COVID marathon. 679 00:39:11,720 --> 00:39:14,760 That was my goal. I didn't have a time goal. 680 00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:18,680 I just knew that I would have to be roughly close to 210 shape to 681 00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:24,960 do it historically, looking at like the times and and also cuz 682 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:27,200 like I knew that they had changed the course so it was 683 00:39:27,200 --> 00:39:31,440 like a faster, flatter course. I'd have to be in that shape. 684 00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:37,640 And yeah, going in, I, I just tried to get as fit as possible. 685 00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:42,200 I changed a lot of things like my race, nutrition, way I train. 686 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:44,720 Obviously, I think Isaac Wood's training helped a lot. 687 00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,160 But yeah, and then fortunately I had consistency for the first 688 00:39:50,160 --> 00:39:53,200 time and probably any build like I'd never had any injuries that 689 00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,560 entire build, so. Your previous races, I guess, 690 00:39:56,960 --> 00:40:00,720 cuz so many people are trying to make sense of your performance, 691 00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,560 sort of like, all right, we can chalk it up to. 692 00:40:04,040 --> 00:40:08,800 Staying healthy, feeling better shoes I guess is the other thing 693 00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:10,960 that it like. Was there a change you made? 694 00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,760 I did switch from the alpha flies, the Puma fast stars, 695 00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:21,160 which I think have made a difference, but also like in 696 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,200 terms of staying healthy. I do think I used to run in the 697 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,280 Nike Pegasus and I hate those shoes. 698 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,680 Like I'll be honest, I'm sorry any Nike fans out there, but 699 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:34,080 like I and I I actually do like Nike. 700 00:40:34,080 --> 00:40:36,720 I run in the vomero plus, but like I just think they're just 701 00:40:36,920 --> 00:40:41,360 too harsh because I only run on concrete in Japan and just 702 00:40:41,360 --> 00:40:47,400 having like a stiff like midsole is just I think too much too 703 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,880 rough on my legs when I do like higher mileage. 704 00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,320 What? Were your fueling adjustments? 705 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:58,000 Yeah, so I used to run with like these goo packets. 706 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,640 They're called GOO OK, and they're, they're really terrible 707 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:04,560 because they're thick and they make you really dehydrated. 708 00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:10,560 It's it's carbs and calories. But I, and the other problem was 709 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:14,400 I also, I didn't have access to like bottles or anything. 710 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:20,040 And so I have to carry all these gels in my back pocket. 711 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:22,960 Like my first two races. I just put them in a back 712 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,160 pocket. It feels like you're wearing a 713 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,240 diaper because you just have all this. 714 00:41:26,720 --> 00:41:29,520 You know. All these gels in the back and 715 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,000 you have to pull it out, eat it and throw it. 716 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:35,080 I mean, it's just like a lot of wasted energy and it's really 717 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:38,320 hard to do. You also can't pollute in Japan 718 00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,920 as well well. Like, yeah, the first couple 719 00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:43,040 races that I actually tried to throw them in the trash can. 720 00:41:43,040 --> 00:41:46,120 Now I now I'm just like, I'm not going to waste that energy. 721 00:41:46,120 --> 00:41:48,960 But but yeah, I actually tried to do that. 722 00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:55,480 And going into Kobe, I switched to like gels that are a lot 723 00:41:55,480 --> 00:41:59,080 easier to drink or just get down. 724 00:42:01,080 --> 00:42:04,880 And I also had like, I switched tights because it's a lot easier 725 00:42:04,880 --> 00:42:07,240 to carry them and I don't have to like spend time trying to 726 00:42:07,240 --> 00:42:12,520 pull it out of my back pocket. Just a lot of mishaps, I think 727 00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:14,880 with nutrition, to be honest, the whole time. 728 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,440 But. When you look at the other 729 00:42:18,440 --> 00:42:21,840 Japanese runners that are in the race, it's like, I guess the 730 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,760 leader in this past weekend's Osaka Marathon, Yoshida, is like 731 00:42:25,760 --> 00:42:28,200 another example of like some people take it to just sort of 732 00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:30,560 like, I want to do all the new tech stuff. 733 00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:33,600 So it's like fueling shoes. And then he's got like, those 734 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,400 were the titanium patches or something like that. 735 00:42:35,880 --> 00:42:37,640 Yeah, I know. He looked like one of those 736 00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:41,520 guys, like trying to. It was like a, it was like a kid 737 00:42:41,520 --> 00:42:43,680 got into a sticker packet and like just put them. 738 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:47,320 Over but he looked like one of those models for like Avatar. 739 00:42:49,240 --> 00:42:51,480 It was like he's going to be in ACGI film and it's like we did 740 00:42:51,480 --> 00:42:53,440 all the dots. I was like, what is that? 741 00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,160 No, I had seen a lot of the Japanese guys. 742 00:42:56,160 --> 00:42:58,040 They wear a lot of them, but he was. 743 00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:00,680 That's like next level. Yeah, but you've never taken it 744 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:02,920 that far like I guess or have you asked some of these guys, 745 00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:04,920 like what's the deal with this? Why is everyone doing this? 746 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:10,760 Well, so the problem like up until recently is so like these 747 00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:13,400 guys are pros and they're in their own like Jitsu Yoda on 748 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,280 teams. So like, I'm not like really 749 00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,080 talking to them much unless it's like a race. 750 00:43:19,760 --> 00:43:24,880 So like, I don't really, it's been hard to like know like what 751 00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:28,120 they do specifically, whether it's like race, nutrition or 752 00:43:28,120 --> 00:43:30,440 even training. And then in addition to that, 753 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:33,400 World Athletics is not doing you any favors by like your page 754 00:43:33,600 --> 00:43:36,000 showing that you're, it says 37 years old. 755 00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:39,240 So you're not like getting into these races. 756 00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:42,080 Has that been just sort of difficult being like, all right, 757 00:43:42,080 --> 00:43:45,160 like I'm it's not all that often you see an American in so many 758 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,600 of these results. Yeah, I mean, there's really 759 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,800 only ranted Japan, like Jake is probably the only other 760 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,600 foreigner I ever see out there that's like competing at a high 761 00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:58,520 level here, unless they're like one of the GTG or the corporate 762 00:43:58,520 --> 00:44:03,120 team foreigners. Yeah, which? 763 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,760 Those are mostly like Kenyans, right? 764 00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,640 Like. Usually Kenyans and they're 765 00:44:07,640 --> 00:44:12,920 always like, you know, 60 half guys or like 2O5 marathoners. 766 00:44:12,920 --> 00:44:16,920 So yeah, it was really hard to get into like the elite fields 767 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:22,200 of races, especially when they only, like, they can only take 768 00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:25,480 your word for it. Like I went into the Tokyo half. 769 00:44:25,480 --> 00:44:28,680 I told them I'm definitely capable of being in the elite 770 00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,720 field. I can run a 63 on a good day. 771 00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:35,960 They're like, sorry, you don't have the time, so we're not 772 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,200 going to let you in. And the same thing happened with 773 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,520 the Kobe marathon, which was even more frustrating. 774 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,880 So yeah, it was it, it. I had to earn my stripes, you 775 00:44:45,880 --> 00:44:48,120 know? So admittedly, I didn't watch 776 00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:53,640 the 2025 Kobe Marathon, but you end up finishing second, 28 777 00:44:53,640 --> 00:44:58,120 seconds behind Alicia Rotich from Kenya, who ends up winning 778 00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:03,320 the the Japanese guy behind you, Hiramasa Kuma. 779 00:45:03,480 --> 00:45:08,640 I yeah. So if you're not starting with 780 00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:13,640 them, like you are a couple seconds back from the first 781 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:16,320 wave, take me through just sort of like this race how you ended 782 00:45:16,320 --> 00:45:20,400 up finishing in 2nd and so in like, I guess pretty close. 783 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:22,000 What what did the final miles look like? 784 00:45:22,000 --> 00:45:24,760 Because you weren't all that far back from from Rotich. 785 00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:28,640 This race I knew that they were going to go out in two O 8 pace. 786 00:45:29,720 --> 00:45:31,680 They they kind of announced that. 787 00:45:31,680 --> 00:45:35,400 So I kind of had just had like flashbacks of Nagano and just 788 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,280 being solo the whole race and I did not want to experience that 789 00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,400 again, even if it was like a very hard start. 790 00:45:41,640 --> 00:45:47,200 So unfortunately the first mile I had to really go out hard. 791 00:45:47,640 --> 00:45:54,800 I think it was like a 440 mile and I finally caught up to the 792 00:45:54,800 --> 00:45:58,280 pace of the league group and just kind of sat with them. 793 00:45:59,960 --> 00:46:01,000 Yeah. And we went out. 794 00:46:01,520 --> 00:46:09,840 We went out harder than 208 because I went through at 6330 795 00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:14,840 in the first half, which for them was probably like maybe 8 796 00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:17,000 seconds slower or something. Yeah. 797 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,280 At that point a lot of the Japanese guys had actually 798 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:21,400 dropped off. So I don't, I don't know if it 799 00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,720 was the weather because it was a little warm really from like 21 800 00:46:25,720 --> 00:46:32,640 K to roughly 30K. It was just me and two other 801 00:46:32,640 --> 00:46:35,320 Kenyans. And then although, and then the 802 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:39,160 Pacers who are also like the Kenyan Jitsu Gotown guys. 803 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,840 So we ran with the Pacers to roughly like 30K. 804 00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,640 But I was at that point the cramping just started to kick in 805 00:46:48,640 --> 00:46:52,560 and I was just kind of fighting for my, for my life at that 806 00:46:52,560 --> 00:46:54,440 point, just trying to like not drop out. 807 00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:58,400 So the pace kind of dropped off, but what's weird is that 808 00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:02,960 happened to Rotich and Alamu, the other two Kenyans I was 809 00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,240 competing against. And Alamu actually dropped out 810 00:47:05,240 --> 00:47:06,600 of the race. Yeah. 811 00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,080 So he must have been suffering pretty bad. 812 00:47:12,000 --> 00:47:16,760 So I think he dropped out at roughly 33K or 35K roughly that 813 00:47:16,760 --> 00:47:20,800 point. And I, I moved up to 2nd and 814 00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,840 then at that point it was really just try to finish. 815 00:47:24,880 --> 00:47:29,440 I knew I couldn't catch Roteach at that point cuz my legs were 816 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:32,080 just. It was really just hold on. 817 00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:38,520 One thing that I think someone mentioned during Worlds was that 818 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,800 it like the Japanese crowds when it comes to like the echiden's 819 00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:45,680 insane, right? But then like during a marathon, 820 00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:48,120 it's not like you go to New York or Boston and everyone's like 821 00:47:48,120 --> 00:47:49,560 hooting and hollering like on the side of the roads. 822 00:47:49,560 --> 00:47:54,280 Like people are pretty composed. Like when they see an American, 823 00:47:54,440 --> 00:47:57,080 I guess in second place, it's it's like not one of their own 824 00:47:57,600 --> 00:47:59,720 and at the same time not something that they're usually 825 00:47:59,960 --> 00:48:00,920 seeing. Like what are they? 826 00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:03,600 Do they yell at you like in in support? 827 00:48:03,880 --> 00:48:07,360 Oh yeah, I mean, pretty much if you go to Japanese marathon, 828 00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:09,960 there's 2 words you're gonna 100% here. 829 00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:13,080 You're gonna hear fight though, which is they're basically just 830 00:48:13,080 --> 00:48:17,200 like go fight and you'll hear a gambat de, which is like, do 831 00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:21,160 your best, you know, you'll 100% hear those words. 832 00:48:21,160 --> 00:48:23,840 And everyone's pretty much just screaming that the whole time. 833 00:48:25,760 --> 00:48:28,840 It it's, I don't know, I've never actually raced a big US 834 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:30,520 marathon, so I don't know what that's like. 835 00:48:30,520 --> 00:48:33,360 But Osaka was pretty, it was pretty crazy. 836 00:48:33,480 --> 00:48:38,760 It was, yeah, very lively. OK, so that brings us to Osaka. 837 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,720 But but even before that, so the result in in Kobe 21130. 838 00:48:42,840 --> 00:48:44,560 What does Isaac say about that one? 839 00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,560 I think he was very impressed. I know like maybe for a lot of 840 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:53,680 people they were shocked, but I wasn't like too shocked based 841 00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:59,560 off my half marathon performance because the half marathon was 842 00:48:59,560 --> 00:49:05,800 incredibly hot and it was quite hilly towards the end. 843 00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:10,080 So I yeah, I think he was impressed and just ready to help 844 00:49:10,080 --> 00:49:11,480 me from my next race. Yeah. 845 00:49:11,480 --> 00:49:13,800 What what goal are you throwing out at that point? 846 00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,240 Because if you were starting to think in Kobe, 210 is 847 00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:21,480 potentially what you needed to get fitness wise to being 848 00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,480 contended for the win. You run 211. 849 00:49:23,840 --> 00:49:26,480 So that's your base I guess for for the next one? 850 00:49:27,080 --> 00:49:32,360 Even though I ran like 211, I thought it was definitely way 851 00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:35,360 fitter than the time reflected it because we went through it 852 00:49:35,360 --> 00:49:41,440 like 30 K at like 2 O 730 pace. So like it was really just a 853 00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,520 matter of like not cramping, improving nutrition and just 854 00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:53,240 like like fixing strength really like also I hadn't done any 855 00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:57,240 training in the Puma fast stars, like I'd raced in them, but I 856 00:49:57,240 --> 00:50:00,200 did not do any training in them. I was still training in the 857 00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,080 alpha flies. So like my approach for Osaka 858 00:50:05,080 --> 00:50:09,200 was really not change the mileage that I was doing, but 859 00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:14,720 really just focus on intensity and getting more train and the 860 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:20,120 fast stars and then improving the race nutrition so. 861 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:26,320 Mileage wise, does the build up for Kobe and that training look 862 00:50:26,320 --> 00:50:30,240 fairly similar to Osaka? You touched one 40s one 50s this 863 00:50:30,240 --> 00:50:32,600 time around. Like, was this uncharted 864 00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:35,560 territory for you or had you already had that previous build 865 00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,160 for it? It was slightly more in terms of 866 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:41,320 mileage, but like it wasn't that different. 867 00:50:41,560 --> 00:50:46,080 Like I think I had hit 146 ish like weeks. 868 00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,240 Obviously I don't average that, but like I'll I'll peek at that 869 00:50:51,120 --> 00:50:55,000 and I had done that. I did that as I got like to 150, 870 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:59,480 I think for this build. So like mileage wise, it wasn't 871 00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,160 like too different, but intensity was definitely harder 872 00:51:03,160 --> 00:51:06,400 this time around. Mileage wise it's mostly off of 873 00:51:06,520 --> 00:51:09,840 6 days. Yeah, I, I, I take off on Monday 874 00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:12,760 just cuz it works with like the race schedule here. 875 00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:18,240 I tried doing like seven days a week, but I just, it doesn't 876 00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:22,200 really work well for me. So I'd I'd stick to 6. 877 00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:25,880 When I've talked to Connor through his training for 878 00:51:25,880 --> 00:51:30,280 Chicago, lots of double S where the second run of the day is 6 879 00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:34,720 or 7 miles. You love a nine mile double. 880 00:51:35,520 --> 00:51:38,440 Where did you land on for? Well, that's yeah, yeah. 881 00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:40,440 It's become, it's become your staple. 882 00:51:40,440 --> 00:51:44,560 How did you land on on on 9? Once you get to the 10, like if 883 00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:49,520 you do like double digits for a double, it's pretty hard on 884 00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:52,600 recovery. For me, that's been kind of the 885 00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:58,480 mix that I can handle without like completely breaking All the 886 00:51:58,480 --> 00:52:03,680 mileage I do is kind of just what I can, what I feel is my 887 00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:06,680 limit without like sacrificing on like quality. 888 00:52:07,440 --> 00:52:10,360 Because obviously I could do more mileage if I slowed down 889 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:13,640 the paces, but I don't think that would help me as much. 890 00:52:14,040 --> 00:52:17,680 So with the workouts and the and the more intense work this time 891 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:22,080 around, more workouts with with other folks or like how did the 892 00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:25,080 build up for Osaka differ there? Still mostly solo. 893 00:52:25,720 --> 00:52:27,760 Yeah, still mostly solo, unfortunately. 894 00:52:28,080 --> 00:52:31,680 I did get a few workouts with Jake, which was nice. 895 00:52:31,680 --> 00:52:38,080 Also I had a rate a race in there and it I had like a few 896 00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:40,840 people come out and like film some workouts. 897 00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:45,000 Having someone like even come and film gives you a little bit 898 00:52:45,000 --> 00:52:46,720 extra motivation to work hard so. 899 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:50,640 I saw that you posted some reels I think of like one of the 900 00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,720 workouts in the build up. Was this to the Osaka half that 901 00:52:53,720 --> 00:52:56,960 you rent 61-O2? Yeah, yeah. 902 00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:58,920 What did you take away from that performance? 903 00:52:59,560 --> 00:53:03,640 My goal for going into Osaka, the Osaka half was to compete. 904 00:53:03,640 --> 00:53:07,600 I knew now I didn't know that the race would go that fast 905 00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:11,760 because in historically that race is usually like closer to 906 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:16,600 61 high and that's more realistically what I thought I 907 00:53:16,600 --> 00:53:20,560 was capable of doing. But yeah, I know we all broke 908 00:53:20,560 --> 00:53:24,760 the course record. I just went with the top group 909 00:53:24,760 --> 00:53:29,240 and just just SAT and was very fortunate. 910 00:53:29,240 --> 00:53:35,080 One of the Ekiden guys from GMO, he he, he paced that whole race 911 00:53:35,080 --> 00:53:37,800 basically. So I was, I was very fortunate. 912 00:53:38,600 --> 00:53:41,920 When we look through just sort of your Strava in the lead up to 913 00:53:41,920 --> 00:53:45,960 to the marathon, I think you you go back like 3 or 4 weeks in 914 00:53:45,960 --> 00:53:49,120 like 1 of the comments sections. Someone asked what's the goal 915 00:53:49,120 --> 00:53:52,240 for for the race and you still hadn't really firmed down on 916 00:53:52,240 --> 00:53:54,160 like what the goal would be for this one. 917 00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:56,360 When did you start to get some clarity? 918 00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:00,280 The big thing for me is I don't really like racing for time like 919 00:54:00,280 --> 00:54:05,200 ever just because like the race can change so much depending on 920 00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:09,600 like how fast people go out and run like the weather conditions. 921 00:54:11,560 --> 00:54:18,320 But I, so I'd met with, I had met with Brett Larner and I 922 00:54:18,320 --> 00:54:22,400 didn't know he was going to like put it on his blog, but he was 923 00:54:22,400 --> 00:54:25,000 like asking me how fast I could run. 924 00:54:25,000 --> 00:54:28,240 And I told him I think I thought it was capable if like all 925 00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,000 things went well, I thought I could run a 206 based off my 926 00:54:32,000 --> 00:54:34,720 training. And I know like a lot of people 927 00:54:34,720 --> 00:54:40,440 use like these conversions for like like the half you run this 928 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:42,960 half time, this is probably what your marathon is going to be. 929 00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:48,360 But based off my half like how the race went, it was like a sit 930 00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:52,240 and kick race, not like a time trial style race. 931 00:54:52,800 --> 00:54:57,280 And the fact that I didn't really do like a real taper like 932 00:54:57,320 --> 00:55:02,400 I it was I had 150 mile a week, a 1:30 and then a hundred the 933 00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:04,720 week of. So it's not like I was going in 934 00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:10,160 to it like, like fresh like compared to what I did for the 935 00:55:10,160 --> 00:55:12,200 marathon. I thought I was capable of 936 00:55:12,200 --> 00:55:13,920 running a lot faster for the marathon. 937 00:55:14,840 --> 00:55:18,120 And so how healthy was this block, if you've kind of, yeah, 938 00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,960 I guess Kobe was the one that was no injuries. 939 00:55:20,960 --> 00:55:22,760 Did anything pop up in the lead up to this? 940 00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:27,160 Yeah, I mean, it was, to be honest, it was a constant like, 941 00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:29,880 battle with like nagging injuries the whole time. 942 00:55:30,120 --> 00:55:32,840 Fortunately, it wasn't anything that, like, required me to take 943 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,760 off. But my hip, for the whole first 944 00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:38,880 month of December, my hip was in a lot of pain. 945 00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:41,000 Like you can even look at my Strava. 946 00:55:41,720 --> 00:55:45,120 I was a week where some people apparently thought I did 160 947 00:55:45,120 --> 00:55:48,720 miles. It's because I did 50 miles of 948 00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:52,760 elliptical. OK, because I just was 949 00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:54,880 struggling with like doing double s. 950 00:55:54,880 --> 00:55:57,520 I couldn't do any. Just my hip was really messed 951 00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,640 up. And then yeah, I had, I've had 952 00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:06,960 some issues with like my ankle just like kind of bothering me. 953 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:11,800 Also my, it's like some like arch issues probably with 954 00:56:11,800 --> 00:56:14,520 running and shoes that are probably too soft all the time. 955 00:56:14,520 --> 00:56:18,720 But yeah, I just, I just try to deal with it as best I can with 956 00:56:18,720 --> 00:56:22,000 like strength training. I've had to do a lot of strength 957 00:56:22,000 --> 00:56:25,280 training in this. Build from a motivational sort 958 00:56:25,280 --> 00:56:29,360 of standpoint, I could get why. You know, here in the States, 959 00:56:29,360 --> 00:56:34,640 someone as a pro signs a contract to go and run Boston 960 00:56:34,640 --> 00:56:36,960 and they're pouring everything into the build. 961 00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:41,280 And if they have an injury like this that forces them to cross 962 00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,520 train like an animal. We've seen someone like Connor 963 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:46,880 do that and then pop off come the performance. 964 00:56:47,240 --> 00:56:51,520 But when you're not necessarily a pro and this is the Osaka 965 00:56:51,520 --> 00:56:55,000 Marathon and not a world marathon major, like what is 966 00:56:55,080 --> 00:57:00,560 driving you in those cross training sessions and to get 967 00:57:00,560 --> 00:57:02,800 back to being healthy? Because wouldn't there just be 968 00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,640 like, hey, there's another marathon a couple a month or so 969 00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:09,400 later that if you just push the timeline back, you'll be able to 970 00:57:09,400 --> 00:57:12,880 be healthy for? And So what was so important 971 00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,160 about lining up in Osaka? Yeah, I mean, well, for me, I 972 00:57:16,160 --> 00:57:18,480 mean, the Osaka Marathon was my world major. 973 00:57:18,480 --> 00:57:21,560 You know, I'm not a pro. So like, this is my time to 974 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:25,320 like, do a good race. And I knew I was very fit after 975 00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:31,280 the COVID marathon, so I just wanted to like, reflect that in 976 00:57:31,280 --> 00:57:36,120 race and like, looking back, like, I know if I would have, 977 00:57:36,520 --> 00:57:40,240 you know, taken off for like, I don't know, two weeks, 3 weeks, 978 00:57:40,240 --> 00:57:42,680 like, my race wouldn't have been the same. 979 00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:47,640 So yeah, I, I just, I really wanted it pretty simply. 980 00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:52,080 I was texting Rory and asked him just sort of like how often the 981 00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:53,960 two of you stay in touch. And you said at some point 982 00:57:53,960 --> 00:57:56,440 during the build, I paid attention to Strava and I shot 983 00:57:56,440 --> 00:57:59,560 him a message and I said, I think you're in like 208 shape, 984 00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:03,320 like send. Me a text like 208, that's it. 985 00:58:03,320 --> 00:58:06,400 I was like, yeah. Yeah, you're like, I I want 986 00:58:06,400 --> 00:58:10,520 faster than that. Going into the race, you're 987 00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,240 sitting sort of like on a secret of like knowing just like how 988 00:58:14,240 --> 00:58:16,040 fit you were. But when you looked at sort of 989 00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:20,080 like the list of the other guys who you'd be racing, what kind 990 00:58:20,080 --> 00:58:23,160 of race did you expect? Well, so I just kind of looked 991 00:58:23,160 --> 00:58:26,960 based off last year in historically like how the Osaka 992 00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:32,360 Marathon, how fast it goes out, and last year it pretty much 993 00:58:32,360 --> 00:58:36,240 went out roughly the same. Actually, I think it went out 994 00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:43,760 faster, but usually goes out in like 1 O 231-0240, which this 995 00:58:43,760 --> 00:58:50,160 year was one O 240. So I knew like that's kind of 996 00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:56,400 I'll have to be in that shape to like hang with the top guys 997 00:58:57,440 --> 00:58:59,240 regardless if I can make to the finish or not. 998 00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:03,160 Like I have to at least be able to comfortably do that through 999 00:59:03,160 --> 00:59:05,360 half if I want to be competitive. 1000 00:59:06,160 --> 00:59:09,960 Otherwise you're just kind of with the Chase packs, so. 1001 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:13,840 I think in Brett Larner's recap he said this was maybe the most 1002 00:59:13,840 --> 00:59:19,160 entertaining marathon in years. And so much of that, I think due 1003 00:59:19,880 --> 00:59:25,400 to Hibiki Yoshida just absolutely hammering it after 8K 1004 00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,400 as you're sort of sitting back like and watching this guy just 1005 00:59:29,400 --> 00:59:31,680 go out and hammer for the front. What are you, what are you 1006 00:59:31,680 --> 00:59:34,000 thinking? Like just seeing how many of 1007 00:59:34,000 --> 00:59:37,640 these Japanese races, like how so many Japanese races go, it's 1008 00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:39,440 like eventually they're going to come back. 1009 00:59:39,680 --> 00:59:43,160 He was at 2O3 pace at one point. I know no. 1010 00:59:43,400 --> 00:59:47,960 Well, what's funny is he, he had been talking about before the 1011 00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:49,920 race, you've been talking about how he was going to go for the 1012 00:59:49,920 --> 00:59:53,080 national record and they're asking him about like the 1013 00:59:53,080 --> 00:59:54,560 weather, because it was pretty hot. 1014 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:59,040 Like Osaka is usually not. It doesn't get up to like mid 1015 00:59:59,040 --> 01:00:02,720 60s in February. And he's just like, yeah, 1016 01:00:02,720 --> 01:00:04,880 perfect weather. I'm I'm looking forward to these 1017 01:00:04,880 --> 01:00:07,280 warm conditions. So he hyped it up. 1018 01:00:07,280 --> 01:00:11,320 But yeah, mid race he just surged. 1019 01:00:11,480 --> 01:00:15,520 But I was. Yeah, I don't know, Like the 1020 01:00:15,520 --> 01:00:18,640 thing with the Japanese Ecuadens is they don't always directly 1021 01:00:18,640 --> 01:00:23,920 translate to the marathon. Like I know he's, he's a crazy 1022 01:00:23,920 --> 01:00:26,240 fit like athlete. And I think he could have won if 1023 01:00:26,240 --> 01:00:30,440 he would have, you know, stayed with the the Pacers the whole 1024 01:00:30,440 --> 01:00:34,960 way. But I think the marathon is a 1025 01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,440 bit different from 1/2 marathon. Yeah, Yeah. 1026 01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:40,760 I'm looking at his track credentials now. 1027 01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:45,840 He's a 1339 guy on the track, and then 2812 and then in the 1028 01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:50,600 half he's around 6145, Yeah. Yeah, apparently in the Ekiden 1029 01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,400 he ran the equivalent of like a 58. 1030 01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:58,400 So, you know, it's just really hard to tell like what that's 1031 01:00:58,400 --> 01:01:02,760 going to really be in a real race because there are a lot of 1032 01:01:02,760 --> 01:01:07,680 guys who just out of nowhere run like a two O 5 or two O 6. 1033 01:01:07,680 --> 01:01:13,720 It's pretty common here so I I was fairly confident that he 1034 01:01:13,720 --> 01:01:18,200 would bonk really hard or hit the wall, but if he would have 1035 01:01:18,200 --> 01:01:20,080 stayed with the league group I think he would have won. 1036 01:01:20,440 --> 01:01:24,600 You must have had plenty of company to like run this race. 1037 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:29,680 Just tons of guys around you 'cause you end up finishing in 1038 01:01:29,680 --> 01:01:35,560 14th place, but all the guys who are near you, just PB Central, 1039 01:01:35,960 --> 01:01:38,000 tons of guys in two O 6, two O 7. 1040 01:01:38,400 --> 01:01:42,640 And yeah, so I mean, like what? What felt difficult and what 1041 01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:47,400 felt easy about this race? The first like 30 K kind of went 1042 01:01:47,400 --> 01:01:51,600 exactly how I expected. Like the pace felt a bit hot but 1043 01:01:51,600 --> 01:01:55,640 like it wasn't aerobically like I felt fine. 1044 01:01:56,120 --> 01:02:00,880 It was just like making sure I get, I take all my gels and then 1045 01:02:00,880 --> 01:02:03,320 I get all my bottles when I need them. 1046 01:02:04,960 --> 01:02:07,680 And it went well, fortunately with my bottles being in the 1047 01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:10,440 front of the tables, so I was able to get everyone. 1048 01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:17,560 But yeah, once we hit the hill at 3031 K, that's when the whole 1049 01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:22,600 pack kind of exploded. And I felt really good up the on 1050 01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:25,480 the uphill, like I got dropped on the flat, but then I I caught 1051 01:02:25,480 --> 01:02:27,840 a bunch of people on the uphill. But once we hit the flat in the 1052 01:02:27,840 --> 01:02:31,360 downhill, I just started getting dropped again by a lot of guys. 1053 01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:38,720 And really that last 35, the 35 to 40K stretch, it's just a flat 1054 01:02:39,080 --> 01:02:42,440 road to the finish basically before you take a turn to the 1055 01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:45,880 finish. And it was really just hang on. 1056 01:02:45,880 --> 01:02:48,280 It was, it really reminded me a lot of Kobe. 1057 01:02:49,160 --> 01:02:53,120 Fortunately it wasn't like as bad, but just try to survive and 1058 01:02:53,120 --> 01:02:57,040 limit cramping. How is your like math in your 1059 01:02:57,040 --> 01:03:00,480 head, I guess in those final kilometers and miles where 1060 01:03:00,480 --> 01:03:02,880 you're just sort of did you like, did you know, I guess like 1061 01:03:02,920 --> 01:03:06,680 what you were on track to run. Once I hit 40K and looked at my 1062 01:03:06,680 --> 01:03:08,320 watch it was like 2 hours something. 1063 01:03:08,320 --> 01:03:13,120 I knew I was going to probably hit like two O 7, but no, at 1064 01:03:13,120 --> 01:03:16,760 that point I was like when things were getting really hard 1065 01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:21,160 and we hit the finished, I think it was like 22 miles in maybe. 1066 01:03:23,520 --> 01:03:27,000 I I couldn't keep pace. I couldn't stay at like the four 1067 01:03:27,000 --> 01:03:31,040 50s. I was just trying to hold as low 1068 01:03:31,120 --> 01:03:33,080 like low fives as much as I could. 1069 01:03:33,360 --> 01:03:38,080 Once I got to like 38 K, 39 Ki knew I was going to be able to 1070 01:03:38,080 --> 01:03:41,960 run a good time because I I knew I had enough strength left to 1071 01:03:42,360 --> 01:03:45,040 finish strong. There's the reel of you 1072 01:03:45,440 --> 01:03:49,360 finishing the race. What is 2 O 7/14? 1073 01:03:49,400 --> 01:03:52,520 What kind of emotions does that bring to you after you cross the 1074 01:03:52,520 --> 01:03:54,640 finish line? I, I was happy, I'll just say 1075 01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:58,000 that like I was, I was happy that I was able to like kind of 1076 01:03:58,560 --> 01:04:02,280 do what I more or less expected. I don't think I could have 1077 01:04:02,280 --> 01:04:06,880 really done any better in that race considering the conditions 1078 01:04:06,880 --> 01:04:10,240 and just race nutrition and everything. 1079 01:04:10,240 --> 01:04:13,920 So I was happy that like, even though I would have like not, 1080 01:04:14,360 --> 01:04:17,240 would have liked to have less cramping towards the end, but I, 1081 01:04:17,240 --> 01:04:20,400 I don't think I could have avoided that and done any 1082 01:04:20,400 --> 01:04:23,440 better. So it, it was, it was amazing. 1083 01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,600 It was amazing feeling. All right, so then after your 1084 01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:32,040 race finished, I take to social media and I see people reacting, 1085 01:04:32,040 --> 01:04:36,440 a lot of people also being like who like and trying to figure 1086 01:04:36,440 --> 01:04:39,680 out who you were. Rory had a very interesting 1087 01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,480 tweet and I want to kind of get your thoughts on where you come 1088 01:04:42,480 --> 01:04:44,480 down on some of these theories that have emerged. 1089 01:04:44,480 --> 01:04:48,120 So Rory said if you put the top 50 Americans in one race and 1090 01:04:48,120 --> 01:04:51,520 made them go at a 205 pace, a lot would run really fast. 1091 01:04:51,520 --> 01:04:53,960 The problem is a lot of people don't want to put it all out on 1092 01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:56,200 the line. You have to train like a maniac, 1093 01:04:56,280 --> 01:04:57,840 race like you don't fear consequences. 1094 01:04:57,840 --> 01:05:00,040 And that's why that's the Japanese way. 1095 01:05:00,160 --> 01:05:04,120 We're too soft here. Agree. 1096 01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:05,760 Disagree. Your thoughts? 1097 01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:10,760 Well, I will say racing here is, I mean kind of how he described 1098 01:05:10,760 --> 01:05:12,800 it, like people do not fear blowing up. 1099 01:05:13,080 --> 01:05:16,800 They will like these guys who run 2O6. 1100 01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:21,480 Their PRS are not according to the calculator that people use 1101 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:26,640 to predict certain marathon paces, like they'll run like 61 1102 01:05:26,640 --> 01:05:29,440 and then all of a sudden they'll run like two O 530. 1103 01:05:30,040 --> 01:05:35,800 So yeah, I would agree with the fact that Japanese runners, they 1104 01:05:35,800 --> 01:05:40,520 don't fear the consequences of. I mean, we saw that yesterday 1105 01:05:40,520 --> 01:05:43,200 with Yoshida. I mean, he went out for the 1106 01:05:43,640 --> 01:05:46,120 national record even though he had never run a marathon. 1107 01:05:46,120 --> 01:05:50,520 So I think there is some truth to that. 1108 01:05:50,840 --> 01:05:54,880 James McCurdy on Twitter said I'm not saying the US has loads 1109 01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,760 of two O 3 guys who haven't run 2O3 yet, but I am saying we have 1110 01:05:58,760 --> 01:06:02,440 loads of men who can run 2O5 to two O 7 who haven't run it yet. 1111 01:06:02,680 --> 01:06:05,720 Men who are sitting at 2:12 2/20 who just need the right 1112 01:06:05,720 --> 01:06:08,120 environment and opportunity. Your thoughts? 1113 01:06:08,600 --> 01:06:10,400 Yeah, I, I mean, I don't disagree. 1114 01:06:10,400 --> 01:06:14,480 Like I, I don't think maybe I don't know what I don't know, it 1115 01:06:14,480 --> 01:06:17,520 is 'cause like I feel like track running has really exploded 1116 01:06:17,520 --> 01:06:19,640 recently in America. Everyone's running super fast 1117 01:06:19,640 --> 01:06:23,080 times, even in the half marathon and people have dipped under 51 1118 01:06:23,080 --> 01:06:27,480 this or 59 this year or sorry, 60 this year. 1119 01:06:29,440 --> 01:06:32,480 I think the same thing could happen in the marathon. 1120 01:06:34,120 --> 01:06:35,920 I don't know if that's like training. 1121 01:06:35,920 --> 01:06:39,960 I don't know if that's mentality or what, but I certainly think 1122 01:06:39,960 --> 01:06:44,040 that marathon American marathoners can be competitive 1123 01:06:44,040 --> 01:06:48,040 on a global stage. Your whole story kind of just 1124 01:06:48,040 --> 01:06:52,040 disrupts this idea that like in order to be great at the 1125 01:06:52,040 --> 01:06:55,440 marathon, you have to have this fixed timeline of, you know, you 1126 01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,360 do this in college, you go and run on the track, you get really 1127 01:06:58,360 --> 01:07:01,400 good at the 10K and then eventually the roads come 1128 01:07:01,400 --> 01:07:03,800 calling. What do you think it is about 1129 01:07:03,800 --> 01:07:06,880 your story that teaches people about just sort of patience and 1130 01:07:06,880 --> 01:07:10,000 also at the same time like late development that can sometimes 1131 01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,280 be? Unexpected, yeah. 1132 01:07:12,280 --> 01:07:18,240 I mean, I wouldn't let any of your like past races, like 1133 01:07:18,240 --> 01:07:20,360 define your whole like running career. 1134 01:07:20,640 --> 01:07:26,080 Like obviously it can be an indication of like your next 1135 01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:26,880 race. Yeah. 1136 01:07:27,960 --> 01:07:30,960 You don't want to like rely on that too much because there's, 1137 01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:35,440 there's many people out here in Japan who have done very similar 1138 01:07:35,440 --> 01:07:40,560 things to me or even more like the guy who beat me actually in 1139 01:07:40,560 --> 01:07:46,400 Osaka just by two seconds. His debut marathon was a 213 and 1140 01:07:46,400 --> 01:07:50,240 he just ran a two O 7. So I don't, I don't think there 1141 01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:55,800 has to be some like defined, you know, run this 10K, run this 1142 01:07:55,800 --> 01:08:00,320 half marathon to run this half marathon to run a certain like 1143 01:08:00,320 --> 01:08:04,200 marathon PB. With the Ethan who just quit the 1144 01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,680 BYU team, it's still at, you know, wrapping up his studies. 1145 01:08:08,080 --> 01:08:11,480 You go find that guy, you tell him, hey, you're going to have 1146 01:08:11,480 --> 01:08:13,880 run 2O7 for the marathon someday. 1147 01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,760 What would he say? We wouldn't believe you. 1148 01:08:16,760 --> 01:08:17,720 You're like, what are you talking about? 1149 01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:25,160 Yeah, like I, there was a point in my running career in college, 1150 01:08:25,160 --> 01:08:30,880 I mean, I didn't really believe I was capable of training hard. 1151 01:08:31,359 --> 01:08:34,560 Like I, I didn't like it wasn't even about the like results. 1152 01:08:34,560 --> 01:08:37,960 So it's more just like I wasn't able to, I didn't believe I was 1153 01:08:37,960 --> 01:08:40,040 able to get like consistent training. 1154 01:08:41,200 --> 01:08:44,880 I now know that that's possible. And I think, you know, I think 1155 01:08:44,880 --> 01:08:47,479 super shoes have helped. I think better nutrition, 1156 01:08:47,479 --> 01:08:52,680 training, all the, there's lots of variables to it, but yeah, I 1157 01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:56,880 definitely wouldn't have believed if I was told that. 1158 01:08:57,240 --> 01:09:00,840 You seem pretty even keeled and levelled when it comes to just 1159 01:09:00,840 --> 01:09:03,359 sort of thinking of the performance now. 1160 01:09:03,439 --> 01:09:05,200 I mean, it's, it's still pretty fresh. 1161 01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:10,160 Now it's up to us, the pundits, to start throwing out the 1162 01:09:10,160 --> 01:09:13,560 conversation around 2028 US Olympic marathon trials. 1163 01:09:14,120 --> 01:09:17,279 A time like this puts you in the conversation. 1164 01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,760 Have you allowed yourself to start to think about that yet? 1165 01:09:20,760 --> 01:09:22,720 Or does that still feel a little far off? 1166 01:09:22,720 --> 01:09:27,000 And what's the next goal? Yeah, you know, I've, I've 1167 01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:31,479 thought about it occasionally from my approach is really just 1168 01:09:31,479 --> 01:09:36,479 take it race by race and being in Japan, you know, or just I 1169 01:09:36,479 --> 01:09:41,000 guess not like racing on a global stage for the big 1170 01:09:41,000 --> 01:09:44,479 marathons here it, it humbles you a lot. 1171 01:09:44,479 --> 01:09:48,600 So like even though I run 2O7, I mean, it's like there's a lot of 1172 01:09:48,600 --> 01:09:54,440 guys younger than me in Japan or some of the foreign guys that 1173 01:09:54,440 --> 01:09:57,400 have, you know, destroyed me. So I haven't really thought too 1174 01:09:57,400 --> 01:09:59,680 much about the time. But in terms of like future 1175 01:09:59,680 --> 01:10:03,880 goals, yeah, I I would like to continue to be more competitive 1176 01:10:04,480 --> 01:10:09,240 place wise and future races and hopefully, you know, one day get 1177 01:10:09,240 --> 01:10:11,520 some wins. Does the Olympics feel like a 1178 01:10:11,520 --> 01:10:13,800 goal? I mean, yeah, I mean, I think 1179 01:10:13,800 --> 01:10:17,080 it's a goal for anyone who is competing at a high level in the 1180 01:10:17,080 --> 01:10:19,920 marathon. So I definitely, it's definitely 1181 01:10:19,920 --> 01:10:25,720 a goal to like do the trials and compete at the trials and then 1182 01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:30,360 also the Olympics for sure. I'm sure a time like this opens 1183 01:10:30,360 --> 01:10:34,080 new doors for you at least like. Oh yeah, this has been a crazy 1184 01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:38,560 week for me. Like I, I like my social media, 1185 01:10:38,560 --> 01:10:41,960 Instagram, have tons of comments just people wanting to talk to 1186 01:10:41,960 --> 01:10:45,960 me Strava. Like I, I figured like if I were 1187 01:10:45,960 --> 01:10:49,600 to run the time that I would had in mind that something like this 1188 01:10:49,600 --> 01:10:51,200 happened. It's just weird to experience it 1189 01:10:51,200 --> 01:10:52,440 though. Yeah. 1190 01:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,080 Is there interest to hit the majors now? 1191 01:10:55,640 --> 01:10:57,880 Yes, yeah. All right, I was going to say, 1192 01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,440 or you'll probably just stay running in some of these 1193 01:11:00,440 --> 01:11:03,520 Japanese races. I I still have a desire to like 1194 01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,880 run in Japanese races, but I definitely do have a desire to 1195 01:11:06,880 --> 01:11:11,160 do some like majors as well. Gotcha. 1196 01:11:11,160 --> 01:11:13,760 All right. Well, kind of to close it out, 1197 01:11:13,800 --> 01:11:16,880 curious, where's film school at? Like like where are you just 1198 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:20,280 sort of like with with that side of things and like what, what 1199 01:11:20,280 --> 01:11:24,560 are the big goals there? It's funny you ask, because I 1200 01:11:24,560 --> 01:11:27,480 was actually at a point where the film squad just wasn't. 1201 01:11:29,040 --> 01:11:30,200 I shouldn't say I wasn't enjoying. 1202 01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:35,680 I didn't like the curriculum. I didn't think the pace was as 1203 01:11:35,680 --> 01:11:38,800 high as I would have liked. So I was actually at a point 1204 01:11:38,800 --> 01:11:43,560 where I was like, I probably need to quit, but I don't know 1205 01:11:43,560 --> 01:11:46,760 what's going to happen because I don't have my visa situation. 1206 01:11:47,400 --> 01:11:51,000 So this is actually very good timing that all this very 1207 01:11:51,000 --> 01:11:54,040 fortunate that this is all working out because I think I 1208 01:11:54,040 --> 01:12:00,480 will try to or I'll take a break from school and maybe that will 1209 01:12:00,480 --> 01:12:03,600 be something in in the future that I try to do. 1210 01:12:04,280 --> 01:12:07,280 So I noticed the posters behind you, The Exorcist and is that 1211 01:12:07,280 --> 01:12:10,480 alien I? Think or I'm a big horror film 1212 01:12:10,480 --> 01:12:14,840 fan so I love The Exorcist, Alien, Up, Blade Runner, all the 1213 01:12:15,600 --> 01:12:19,400 older classics. Your YouTube channel has started 1214 01:12:19,400 --> 01:12:23,120 to veer into more of running content, but the very first 1215 01:12:23,120 --> 01:12:27,360 videos were definitely social life dating in Japan. 1216 01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,640 Just trying I guess like to what was I guess where, where are you 1217 01:12:30,640 --> 01:12:34,840 taking your YouTube channel now? Well, so in the beginning, I 1218 01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,800 mean those videos, the early ones, those are almost two years 1219 01:12:37,800 --> 01:12:41,640 old. So that was in 2024 and I was 1220 01:12:41,640 --> 01:12:45,000 still working full time. So like I hadn't even like done 1221 01:12:45,000 --> 01:12:47,960 film school. So like that was more just like 1222 01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:52,400 I enjoyed making videos. I had more that I kind of have 1223 01:12:52,400 --> 01:12:56,440 privated just because I want my channel to be mostly running 1224 01:12:56,440 --> 01:12:59,840 now. But I left those up because a 1225 01:12:59,840 --> 01:13:02,600 lot of people shared similar experiences or whatever. 1226 01:13:02,600 --> 01:13:07,840 So I'm like, I'll leave it up for people, but but yeah, for my 1227 01:13:07,840 --> 01:13:12,400 channel, I would like to kind of continue making videos. 1228 01:13:12,960 --> 01:13:17,120 I like filmmaking and I like, I feel like I can still kind of do 1229 01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,320 something similar. I know YouTube's very different, 1230 01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,600 social media is different, but something I enjoy. 1231 01:13:23,600 --> 01:13:27,440 So I hope to continue sharing I guess my journey my running on 1232 01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:31,240 on YouTube so. Yeah, I feel like the longest 1233 01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,440 time people have thrown out the hypothetical, especially seeing 1234 01:13:34,440 --> 01:13:37,280 how many Japanese runners run 2O62O7. 1235 01:13:37,280 --> 01:13:41,480 Like I feel only we would just send a top pro out to Japan and 1236 01:13:41,480 --> 01:13:44,560 see what they could do training. It's like, Oh well, turns out he 1237 01:13:44,560 --> 01:13:47,440 had been there all along and then just so happened to pop off 1238 01:13:47,440 --> 01:13:50,400 a two O 7. So if you produce any of that 1239 01:13:50,400 --> 01:13:53,240 content, I'm sure so many running fans will will eat it 1240 01:13:53,240 --> 01:13:55,480 up. But Ethan, I appreciate you 1241 01:13:55,480 --> 01:13:58,080 taking the time for this and congratulations on such an 1242 01:13:58,080 --> 01:14:01,920 awesome run this past weekend. And definitely enjoy the the 1243 01:14:01,920 --> 01:14:05,720 recovery and their thought as to like what you want to do next 1244 01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:09,760 before the next marathon. Like dip back into halves 10K. 1245 01:14:10,120 --> 01:14:13,320 Yeah, I do have. I would like to do some shorter 1246 01:14:13,320 --> 01:14:16,640 races going forward. So one of the thing, you know, 1247 01:14:16,720 --> 01:14:21,240 not being able to race in college, like run those 10 K 5K 1248 01:14:21,240 --> 01:14:27,800 times leaves it wide open for me to destroy my personal guests. 1249 01:14:28,320 --> 01:14:31,080 So it's kind of enjoyable. You know, that's the one thing 1250 01:14:31,080 --> 01:14:32,720 that is positive about all of this. 1251 01:14:32,720 --> 01:14:34,640 You know, not being able to run in college is now. 1252 01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:39,120 It's not too hard to beat your personal best. 1253 01:14:39,800 --> 01:14:42,520 Definitely. Well, thanks again for for 1254 01:14:42,520 --> 01:14:44,440 taking the time for this Ethan, really appreciate it. 1255 01:14:45,240 --> 01:14:48,120 Of course. All right, that's a wrap on 1256 01:14:48,120 --> 01:14:50,360 today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the 1257 01:14:50,360 --> 01:14:53,360 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 1258 01:14:53,360 --> 01:14:56,440 routine or your run. Big thanks to our producer 1259 01:14:56,440 --> 01:14:59,280 Jasmine Fair, and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make 1260 01:14:59,280 --> 01:15:02,480 the Sidious Mag Podcast happen. If you enjoyed today's episode, 1261 01:15:02,480 --> 01:15:05,360 a quick five star review on Apple Podcast or Spotify helps 1262 01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:08,560 people find this show and we read every single one. 1263 01:15:08,680 --> 01:15:11,800 You can find muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com 1264 01:15:11,800 --> 01:15:14,160 and you can follow along across all of Sidious Mag social 1265 01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:15,640 channels. We'll see you next time. 1266 01:15:15,880 --> 01:15:16,920 Thanks again for listening.