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I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 34 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,280 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 35 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:03,240 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 36 00:02:03,240 --> 00:02:05,560 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 37 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,080 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 38 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,320 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 39 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,360 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 40 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,160 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 41 00:02:18,160 --> 00:02:19,080 anywhere. Else. 42 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,680 So let's get into it, because we love track and field. 43 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:29,640 My guest for today's episode is Josh Kerr, Mile world record 44 00:02:29,640 --> 00:02:31,880 holder. On July 18th at the London 45 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:38,080 Diamond League in front of 60,000 people, Josh ran 342.66 46 00:02:38,400 --> 00:02:42,240 to break Hisham El Garage's record that had stood for 27 47 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,400 years. It was the longest standing mile 48 00:02:44,400 --> 00:02:47,920 world record in the history of the event and one that many 49 00:02:47,920 --> 00:02:51,800 believed might never fall. He did it by calling a shot four 50 00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:55,200 months in advance, jumping on this podcast and telling me why 51 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,760 this mattered to him and why Brooks was throwing so much 52 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:01,120 support behind him. You got to give him props. 53 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,760 He locked himself into a specific date and venue and all 54 00:03:04,760 --> 00:03:08,280 of this was set in motion before he had even finished rehabbing 55 00:03:08,280 --> 00:03:11,680 the calf injury that he had at the World Championships in Tokyo 56 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:14,440 last September. Josh is already one of the most 57 00:03:14,440 --> 00:03:16,960 decorated middle distance runners of his generation. 58 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,640 World champion, two time Olympic medalist, 2 time world indoor 59 00:03:20,640 --> 00:03:23,960 champion, but the world record puts him in a whole nother 60 00:03:23,960 --> 00:03:26,880 category. He's now the 7th Brit to hold 61 00:03:26,880 --> 00:03:30,600 the mild world record in the 1st and Steve Cram in 1985. 62 00:03:30,840 --> 00:03:34,520 He joins a line that runs through Rodger Banister, Sepco, 63 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,280 Steve Ovett, Steve Cram and now it's all Josh Kurz, the race 64 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:42,960 commentator on the world feed, which was Tim Hutchings called 65 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,120 it the ballsiest world record in the history of middle distance 66 00:03:46,120 --> 00:03:48,680 racing. It is really hard to disagree 67 00:03:48,680 --> 00:03:50,720 with that statement. This conversation was recorded 68 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,960 just a couple days after the race and Kyle Merber joins me as 69 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,960 my Co host. We get into the full art of 70 00:03:55,960 --> 00:03:59,160 Project 222, how Josh pitched the idea to Brooks. 71 00:03:59,160 --> 00:04:02,920 We go deep on the spikes that were built specifically for his 72 00:04:02,920 --> 00:04:05,320 foot strike. And I thought one of the coolest 73 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:08,920 parts was Josh walking us through the whiteboard session 74 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:12,440 in Albuquerque where they debated every split. 75 00:04:12,480 --> 00:04:15,120 The 1200 meter time trial two weeks out that converted the 76 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,440 last remaining skeptics hand up. That was me. 77 00:04:17,839 --> 00:04:20,959 The mental performance framework that kept him in flow state when 78 00:04:20,959 --> 00:04:24,760 60,000 people were watching him and what was happening 79 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,680 internally when he cracked that smile just before the gun went 80 00:04:27,680 --> 00:04:29,560 off. And then obviously when he went 81 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,000 deaf with 150 meters to go. The end into what Tokyo taught 82 00:04:33,000 --> 00:04:35,080 him. The cage door philosophy that 83 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:39,160 Danny Mackey lives by and who the performance was really for. 84 00:04:39,160 --> 00:04:41,200 Which is maybe not the answer that you would. 85 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:46,120 So without further ado, Josh Kerr, welcome back to the City 86 00:04:46,120 --> 00:05:00,280 of Smack podcast. We have a special guest on 87 00:05:00,280 --> 00:05:04,680 today's podcast welcoming in mile world record holder Josh 88 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:06,480 Kerr. I've introduced you as Olympic 89 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,320 medalist, world champion in the past, but now finally mile world 90 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:13,520 record holder. I'm sure with the 50 plus 91 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,280 interviews that you've done in the last couple days, it's 92 00:05:16,280 --> 00:05:19,040 settled in at this point. Yeah, I think so. 93 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,520 You know, listening to yourself talk about it for for a while is 94 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:25,520 is, yeah, it helps for sure. But no, it's, it's been, it's 95 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:28,320 been really fun. It's been like, really great to 96 00:05:28,320 --> 00:05:32,520 see people outside the sport as well, like, can I get into this 97 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,160 a little bit and understand what are sports really about and 98 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:37,200 pushing the boundaries of things? 99 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,080 So it's been, yeah. It's been a good journey, 100 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,280 actually, Yeah. I was going to expect to see 101 00:05:42,280 --> 00:05:45,240 your face on like The Tonight Show or something. 102 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:49,680 What has been the outlet or the interview that you've done that 103 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:51,840 you're like, wow, kind of pinch me moment. 104 00:05:51,840 --> 00:05:53,760 That's pretty cool that you know they're paying attention to 105 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:57,160 track and field right now. You know, I think the, the 106 00:05:57,160 --> 00:06:01,520 interview side of things is the way that it comes out normally 107 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,880 is like the next day and during, you know, that that evening it's 108 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:10,280 like all very like quick Sky News, BBC like interviews and 109 00:06:10,280 --> 00:06:12,200 live stuff. You know, I just did a bunch of 110 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,320 live stuff this morning with Good Morning Britain and and 111 00:06:15,320 --> 00:06:19,960 Channel 4 and but then like long term, then it kind of becomes a 112 00:06:19,960 --> 00:06:22,480 little bit more chat showy and podcasting and things like that. 113 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,360 So yeah, we've got some really good stuff kind of in the 114 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,640 pipeline. But yeah, people care. 115 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:31,000 I mean, that's really cool. You know, you know, even like, 116 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:33,800 you know, Elon tweeting about it, like that's cool. 117 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,360 You know, I someone showed me and I was like, should I tweet 118 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,600 back? I mean, I haven't tweeted in 119 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:41,960 like 15 years. So yeah, your last tweet is like 120 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:44,640 a photo of you and me running in Santa Monica, which is kind of 121 00:06:44,720 --> 00:06:49,000 crazy because 2023. You know, and so just didn't 122 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:50,760 feel right. You just left that one as it 123 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:52,960 was. We've got some limited time with 124 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:56,040 you. We want to obviously unpack the 125 00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:59,240 day First off, I guess like calling your shot four months 126 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,680 out, super exciting, something you've done in the past. 127 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,800 But I think in hearing Danny talk about it and some of the 128 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,600 other people in your circle, it really, I guess like started to 129 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:14,000 weigh on the team six weeks out or something like that. 130 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:17,320 Like what when when people say like it, it started to get heavy 131 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:21,400 and the pressure was mounting. What exactly, about six weeks 132 00:07:21,400 --> 00:07:25,400 out, started to make this feel different than the pressure of 133 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,720 an Olympic Games? Yeah, it's, it's a great 134 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:30,400 question. I think six weeks out was I 135 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,920 think around that kind of five weeks out time was, was when I 136 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:38,080 ran that last 800 and it didn't kind of go the way we wanted it 137 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:41,400 to go. For me, the pressure really 138 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:47,400 never got different because I'm not like, I don't listen to the 139 00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:49,440 outside noise. I don't have outside. 140 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,400 Like, you know, I wake up in the morning, I chat to people I see 141 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,400 in person and that's it. And so like, I was in my own 142 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,760 world. But that's not how my wife 143 00:07:57,760 --> 00:07:59,440 works. That's not how my parents work. 144 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,240 It's not how Danny works, it's not how Julian works. 145 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:04,600 So, you know, they see the externals a lot more than I do. 146 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:07,640 And you can see it in the way that I'm coached a little bit 147 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:10,000 and like, you know, Daniel put some pressure on me on some of 148 00:08:10,000 --> 00:08:11,800 the workouts as well. I've been like, you know, these 149 00:08:11,800 --> 00:08:14,680 are the numbers that I'm thinking or like, you know, we 150 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,640 want to look smooth doing this or, you know, you know, put 151 00:08:17,640 --> 00:08:19,920 yourself in that mindset. So, yeah, I could feel the 152 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:23,400 pressure a little bit, but I don't know, I just don't. 153 00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:25,760 I just don't care about anyone else. 154 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:28,720 I genuinely don't care. Like I'm I was trying to do 155 00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,680 something that no one had done. I was trying to bring a positive 156 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,200 like like part of this sport, like a moment for everyone. 157 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:37,400 And like I was trying my fucking best. 158 00:08:37,480 --> 00:08:40,720 And like that's all I could do is like, you know, you know, I 159 00:08:40,720 --> 00:08:44,560 if I go out there and I run through 43.4 or like even if I 160 00:08:44,560 --> 00:08:48,240 ran like in, you know, 343 high or whatever, that would be my 161 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,920 best. And I would have looked around 162 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:52,280 and gone. You know, that record was better 163 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:54,880 than me. And I'm like, I'm sorry that you 164 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:56,920 guys thought I was going to be a moment, but that's all I had. 165 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:58,400 Like, that's why I would have been. 166 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,600 And, and if that's your approach, then you're not 167 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:04,440 scared. You just go in there with a 168 00:09:04,440 --> 00:09:06,800 whole heart and a full cup and you just go fuck it. 169 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:09,440 Like we're sending this and whatever the result is, it's 170 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:11,840 like a Christmas present. That's what I always felt like. 171 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:17,200 How much of the fact that this is just a quote UN quote off 172 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:19,600 year and needing to find that motivation? 173 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:22,040 I mean, you've been running global championships for about a 174 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,240 decade now. Was calling the shot just the 175 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:28,200 thing that you needed to kind of keep yourself honest and keep 176 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:30,880 doing those little things in 2026? 177 00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,400 Yes, it was a balance of things. It was like 2026. 178 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:39,920 Like, you know, I approached Danny about it for, you know, a 179 00:09:39,920 --> 00:09:43,000 while ago and and you know, Tokyo obviously didn't go the 180 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:45,400 way that we wanted it to, but like the Tokyo prep camp went 181 00:09:45,400 --> 00:09:49,320 extremely well. And so, you know, I was still 182 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,520 limping around when we went into the HQ at Brooks and we were 183 00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:55,160 like July 18th, like, let's do it. 184 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:59,280 And they were like, buddy, I would love, I'm going to do it 185 00:09:59,360 --> 00:10:03,720 because there's no ND as I'm going to release like my 186 00:10:03,720 --> 00:10:05,560 presentation to Brooks at some point. 187 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,160 And like, you know, obviously I asked for a nice big sexy bonus 188 00:10:10,680 --> 00:10:14,000 and they kind of laughed initially and they were like, 189 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,960 what are you talking about? Like this is this is crazy. 190 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,600 And then like when it kind of hit them where I was like, yeah, 191 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:20,920 but I will have ran the world record. 192 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,840 And they were like, oh, yeah, OK. 193 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:24,880 And then it started, the ball started rolling. 194 00:10:24,880 --> 00:10:27,840 And then I started running well and things like that. 195 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:29,160 And then, you know, we went from there. 196 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:32,320 But it was a crazy process and it was so fun. 197 00:10:33,040 --> 00:10:36,680 But it was, it was definitely not like, yeah, the, the 198 00:10:36,680 --> 00:10:39,840 marketing of it is great. But like, you know, we got, we 199 00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,680 got some realms and odds for a while and then winning world and 200 00:10:42,680 --> 00:10:43,760 doors. They're like, oh fuck it, this 201 00:10:43,760 --> 00:10:46,520 guy's still pretty good. Like, that's good, you know? 202 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,560 You've worn suits to press conferences. 203 00:10:48,560 --> 00:10:50,560 Did you wear a suit to the Brooks presentation? 204 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,800 I think I wore something similar, but with like a Brooks 205 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,680 shirt under or something like that where, you know, you got 206 00:10:55,680 --> 00:10:57,800 to, you got to keep the main thing, the main thing with those 207 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:00,720 guys, you know, keep the the the Brooks shoes on for sure. 208 00:11:00,720 --> 00:11:04,440 But yeah, it was, it's funny because they then take the 209 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,000 presentation and then they bring it to their, their bosses, you 210 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,680 know, the, the, you know, CMO Melanie, she's incredible. 211 00:11:09,680 --> 00:11:11,920 And they're like, alright, we're going to need, we're going to 212 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:15,840 need some budget, you know, for, for marketing and, and shoe 213 00:11:15,840 --> 00:11:18,520 development and, and they bought in massively and it was amazing 214 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,040 from then on. But yeah, I think that the first 215 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:23,000 one was definitely like trying not to get laughed at the 216 00:11:23,000 --> 00:11:26,640 boardroom for sure. When they devised the spike, 217 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:29,040 right, I think one of the details that they shared was 218 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:32,240 that it was meant to give you a feeling like you were running 219 00:11:32,240 --> 00:11:36,040 downhill. What exactly is it I guess that 220 00:11:36,040 --> 00:11:38,840 the testing and the science showed about just sort of like 221 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,800 you're running efficiency and all that kind of stuff that 222 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:45,520 really that's sort of like how they tailor made this thing for 223 00:11:45,520 --> 00:11:47,280 you, like and your particular foot. 224 00:11:47,280 --> 00:11:50,480 Strike Yeah. So my my initial thing with 225 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:55,040 spikes is that so say this is where my question came in to 226 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:59,480 them was like, I was like, OK, so say I'm like a, you know, 120 227 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:03,120 LB, like 5 foot, whatever female 800m runner. 228 00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:07,720 And then you've got like me like 6 to, you know, I'm not going to 229 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:10,120 say my weight publicly just because this is my biggest 230 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:15,080 question. Trying to run 342 in a mile and 231 00:12:15,080 --> 00:12:18,160 the power up it through it. I was like, you know, a size 6 232 00:12:18,160 --> 00:12:22,080 spike and a size 11 spike. Are those the same density of 233 00:12:22,080 --> 00:12:24,720 foam? Because I don't think they are 234 00:12:24,800 --> 00:12:27,400 like I don't think they should be, but they are. 235 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:30,800 And so I'm like, is the bigger the spike that the more dense 236 00:12:30,800 --> 00:12:32,760 the foam? And they're like, Oh well, every 237 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,840 spikes different this and that. And I was like, I, I need a 238 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:40,040 spike that like feels my like, like built for me and not built 239 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:43,200 for like everyone. And so that was my biggest 240 00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:46,200 problem initially was like, I need, I need something that I'm 241 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:49,200 not going to squeeze the full foam and then take the power up. 242 00:12:49,200 --> 00:12:52,800 And so we got the phone like super dense and hard. 243 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:58,480 And and then from there we what they're claiming as in like, you 244 00:12:58,480 --> 00:13:01,200 know, they're a lot smarter than me, but this is my dumbed down 245 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:06,960 version is you have like a spike that can do a lot of things in a 246 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:08,400 round. So if you have to slow down, you 247 00:13:08,400 --> 00:13:10,120 have to pick it up, you have to go and make your moves and 248 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:11,880 stuff. They just cut that part off a 249 00:13:11,880 --> 00:13:13,880 spike, that back half of the spike. 250 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:15,600 They've just cut the brakes out of them. 251 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,680 And so I can't heal strike. It's like if I'm not running 50 252 00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:23,440 fives or faster, then the spike doesn't perform super well for 253 00:13:23,440 --> 00:13:24,960 me. And then where I'm like 254 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,640 pronating, they're like holding me back in the spike. 255 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,280 They're like, they like build up the inside of the the right 256 00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,480 spike a bit as well just to hold me into the plate. 257 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:39,200 I've heard people say that the reason Josh got this record is 258 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,040 because of that special Brooks spike. 259 00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,360 And when you hear that, you go, no, I'm really good. 260 00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:45,640 Like, that's why I got the record. 261 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:48,080 Or you like, yeah, like, hell yeah. 262 00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:50,880 That's This is why I presented this idea to Brooks. 263 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,840 Let's sell some shoes. Yeah, I, I think it's a balance. 264 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,600 I think they, I mean, they deserve the all the, the kudos 265 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:58,440 they're getting. They worked incredibly hard. 266 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:02,120 I think, you know, you, you know, the end of the day, if you 267 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:04,240 put most people in that spike, it's not going to happen. 268 00:14:04,240 --> 00:14:06,920 Or, you know, you build someone a spike, it's you know, it's 269 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:10,760 still not going to happen. But I think, I think those are 270 00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:14,000 the 1% that we we need, we needed for sure. 271 00:14:14,200 --> 00:14:17,280 Like I didn't get it by a lot like I had, I definitely had 272 00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,280 some stuff working against me and it within, you know, the 273 00:14:20,280 --> 00:14:24,320 situation of it being in London and like a pacemaker dropping 274 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:27,520 out, you know, 5-6 days before. Like those aren't ideal 275 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,600 conditions. And so, yeah, yeah, I think if 276 00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,280 we don't have those spikes, then we could be on the wrong side of 277 00:14:34,320 --> 00:14:37,680 of the number for sure. As someone who's been like super 278 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,600 transparent about like everything that goes into a 279 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,520 performance like this. So I guess like, are we missing 280 00:14:42,520 --> 00:14:44,640 anything when we kind of just do like the checklist, right? 281 00:14:44,640 --> 00:14:46,880 So it was a spike. Then there was like the custom 282 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,480 speed suit pacing. The biggest one, of course is 283 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,640 obviously like the training, the mindset side of things. 284 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,600 Like you've been working with the same mental performance 285 00:14:55,600 --> 00:15:00,280 coach now for 6 plus years and then Bicarb, are you one of 286 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:02,280 those guys who's like, I guess you, you using it? 287 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,760 Yeah, I use it. I I don't promote it because I'm 288 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:09,000 not like like I'm not branded, but like I have it in videos. 289 00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,440 You can see I I started using that like a year and a half year 290 00:15:12,440 --> 00:15:15,240 yeah year and a half two years ago maybe so not through I 291 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,960 didn't do it in the Olympics in 24 and so my new PB now has it, 292 00:15:19,960 --> 00:15:23,400 but it wasn't. I can run partly I can run 32779 293 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,840 without it, but no, I think the other performance coach side of 294 00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:29,520 things is, is huge. Like it's the first time he's 295 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,200 ever travelled with me to a race. 296 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:35,960 And so he arrived on the Tuesday and we were able to do our 297 00:15:35,960 --> 00:15:38,480 grounding sessions in the morning and, and like, and like 298 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:39,880 our wind down sessions in the evening. 299 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,000 That's like what we're going to maybe focus on a little bit more 300 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,400 when we come out with our, our like race week video. 301 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,640 And we have a lot more behind the scenes with that. 302 00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:50,280 And you can kind of see how powerful the, the work that 303 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:55,080 we're doing is because it's really like Danny did his job 304 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:57,600 incredibly well. Like my legs were ready to run 305 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:01,080 through 42 and maybe faster if, if I got it right. 306 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:05,720 But like the, the toll it takes to to be able to show up on the 307 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:08,600 day and do I felt pretty bad all week, if I'm being honest. 308 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,040 Like up until like the Thursday, I was feeling pretty rough. 309 00:16:13,200 --> 00:16:16,280 Just that traveled caffeine cleans, like all that stuff, 310 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,400 like I was just feeling a little bit like down, but as soon as I 311 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,640 was running fast, I felt great. When I was running my regular 312 00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,280 speed, I felt a bit bit sluggish, which tells you a lot. 313 00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:28,080 We all know like the worst the pre race, the better the race. 314 00:16:29,200 --> 00:16:31,760 But you know, I, I think that's the side that we're going to try 315 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:34,400 and focus on a little bit more. But I think people are are 316 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,560 starting to understand the the team and of people it takes for 317 00:16:37,560 --> 00:16:40,000 sure. From the sports psychology side, 318 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,360 I think that the thing that is most impressive about the entire 319 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:48,440 build up and everything that you did was coming off of a 320 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,720 disappointing World Championships, the ability to 321 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:54,680 just immediately recalibrate and set a new goal from afar. 322 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:57,600 It seems like you just took that disappointment on the chin and 323 00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,160 like you handled it really well. You didn't come out with, like, 324 00:17:00,160 --> 00:17:05,640 a bunch of excuses, like there was no, like, the sob stories 325 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:07,280 were pretty limited. You didn't really see. 326 00:17:07,280 --> 00:17:08,480 You just were like, yeah, it happened. 327 00:17:08,480 --> 00:17:11,920 And we moved on really quickly. And so I guess it's easy to be 328 00:17:11,920 --> 00:17:13,839 mentally strong when things are going well. 329 00:17:14,359 --> 00:17:18,680 How key was having someone like that in your corner at, you 330 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:20,200 know, essentially during your offseason? 331 00:17:20,839 --> 00:17:24,880 I think what I realized and and maybe I'm wrong, but like, no 332 00:17:24,880 --> 00:17:27,359 one cares about you. Like, no, no one cares. 333 00:17:28,000 --> 00:17:31,880 Like, like, yeah, I mean, I wanted to go like I had a really 334 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,840 good camp going into Tokyo and I went over there and I wanted to 335 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,040 retain my title, but I didn't. And then like, that's that was 336 00:17:39,040 --> 00:17:40,960 it. And it was like I I wanted to 337 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:42,960 share like if people were worried about me, like, yeah, 338 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,000 like this is what happened. I put myself in the wrong 339 00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:48,320 position in a race and I went over my cab and I stranded. 340 00:17:48,760 --> 00:17:52,200 But like then it was like, alright, well, that sucks, but I 341 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,080 don't want to be like the biggest thing was like, I don't 342 00:17:54,080 --> 00:17:56,320 want to be remembered to for being that guy. 343 00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:00,200 Like I, I, you know, you can make all the inspirational edits 344 00:18:00,200 --> 00:18:03,360 you want on Instagram and TikTok that makes me look like I'm a, 345 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,600 I'm a battling through like all my adversity, but like it's just 346 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,080 not who I want to be. And I've created this incredible 347 00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:14,320 team of people and like, internally, like, I let them 348 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:17,240 down because my positioning like, I was like, right, like 349 00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:21,200 world indoors, like world record, like, like this team is 350 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,320 good enough for that. I didn't do my job. 351 00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:28,000 And like, it's really tough. And like when, when we're in 352 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:30,560 London, you know, a big thing that, you know, Danny's a big 353 00:18:30,560 --> 00:18:35,320 UFC guy, a big thing that he's saying is like before I I shut 354 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,360 the cage door, just let me do everything I can. 355 00:18:37,360 --> 00:18:40,920 I'm like, yeah, definitely. And you know, sometimes like, 356 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:44,320 like if you can get the right people in your car and they do 357 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,240 their job extremely well and they shut the cages on you, like 358 00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,360 100% is on you. And I love that feeling when 359 00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,880 it's like everyone else has done what they've done and now it's 360 00:18:52,880 --> 00:18:55,080 my job. And it was time to just show up 361 00:18:55,080 --> 00:18:56,800 and, and do what I was capable of doing. 362 00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,360 And it's it's easier said than done for sure, but it's just 363 00:19:00,360 --> 00:19:03,560 like, I just have so much trust in my people and I'm having such 364 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:06,640 a good time doing it like that, you know, this is what I want to 365 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:08,760 do, you know? And so that's, that's been a fun 366 00:19:08,760 --> 00:19:10,360 journey. But yeah, I didn't want to get 367 00:19:10,360 --> 00:19:11,960 down too much. But I also just went straight 368 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:15,200 onto vacation in Japan. And so how bad is life, really? 369 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:17,320 I got a pair of crutches and I was gone, you know? 370 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:20,880 This episode of The City's My Podcast is brought to you by 371 00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,200 Core. If you've ever tried to heat 372 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,520 train, you know the problem. 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It builds from the time that you 387 00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:13,440 spend in the productive heat zones during a session. 388 00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:17,360 So if you do enough quality heat work, then the score climbs. 389 00:20:17,560 --> 00:20:20,920 If you skip it for a few days, then it decays just like 390 00:20:20,920 --> 00:20:23,360 fitness. So instead of guessing whether 391 00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:26,160 that's sauna sit for a couple minutes or that easy treadmill 392 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:28,760 run is doing. Anything you get a real read on 393 00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:31,800 whether you're getting more resilient or if you need to back 394 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,600 off. 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So whether you're building for a 402 00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:00,320 goal race that runs the risk of being hot, or if you're just 403 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,480 training smarter this summer, the margin between being 404 00:21:03,480 --> 00:21:06,680 productive and being too hot is thinner than you think. 405 00:21:06,880 --> 00:21:09,960 So Core shows you exactly where that line is. 406 00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:14,280 Sidious Mag listeners get 10% off the Core 2 with code Sidious 407 00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:17,440 10 at checkout when you visit corebodytemp.com. 408 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:21,960 That's Sidious 10 at checkout when you visit corebodytemp.com. 409 00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,520 Train in the heat. Don't overcook it. 410 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:30,280 So there's obviously so many people involved in the lead up 411 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:33,800 to it. Now what I love hearing about is 412 00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:37,480 taking me to the night before when it comes down to dialling 413 00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:40,280 in the final race plan of what the splits are you guys are 414 00:21:40,280 --> 00:21:45,560 looking for? Like is that you Brandon and and 415 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,360 Danny? Is it just you and Danny? 416 00:21:47,360 --> 00:21:50,600 And then like, how did that final, I guess like before he 417 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,440 closes the the cage door, how did that final meeting go? 418 00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:57,360 So we had that meeting like 3 or 4 weeks ago. 419 00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:02,400 I'm a big believer in the job is done over 2 weeks to go. 420 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:05,360 And so it's very much a Jose thing. 421 00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:08,720 My performance coach, he's like, you know, I have this, we'll 422 00:22:08,720 --> 00:22:12,600 show, we'll show it that I think Julian and recorded during our 423 00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:14,160 meeting. We had a we had a big meeting 424 00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:17,880 with me. I don't know if we're fuck, I'm 425 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,720 just going to say Drew Wendell, who's our new assistant coach to 426 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:22,080 Brooks piece. I don't know if that's out yet, 427 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:23,440 but maybe it is. I don't know. 428 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,000 Maybe I've ruined it. He's fucking awesome. 429 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:30,600 Julian, Danny and Brandon and we sat in Albuquerque and I rolled 430 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,360 in my big ass whiteboard that had every split that you can 431 00:22:33,360 --> 00:22:35,480 even imagine. And we debated it for about an 432 00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:39,160 hour and when we got it and we finished and we decided what the 433 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,160 splits were going to be and and how the lights were going to 434 00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:44,600 run, it was done. And like, you know, I was forced 435 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,720 to then put my whiteboard away because I spent months on that 436 00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,520 thing. Like like legitimately months 437 00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,600 trying to figure this thing out because the actual 9 meters 438 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,200 makes this math so difficult dude. 439 00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:58,160 Like it's so frustrating, but I needed to know the splits so 440 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,440 well that if I ever needed to come up for air and see a split, 441 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:04,160 I knew exactly what it meant. I can go back to work. 442 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,760 And and so, yeah, we had that meeting. 443 00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:09,360 It was great. And it what didn't go the way I 444 00:23:09,360 --> 00:23:11,720 want, not wanted it, but thought it would go. 445 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:13,360 But it was different than I thought. 446 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,240 And everyone was confident in it. 447 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:19,640 Split was done and and that was over like and then I was forced 448 00:23:19,640 --> 00:23:21,040 to put the white. But the way it was done two 449 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:25,360 weeks before and, and the big thing that my performance coach 450 00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,640 kept saying is it's done like the performance is done like 451 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,160 you, you can't, you can't work this out anymore. 452 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:33,640 There's no way if you're in your analytical brain, you can't be 453 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:35,880 in flow state. So you have to get out of your 454 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:37,840 analytical brain as early as you can. 455 00:23:38,160 --> 00:23:40,600 And as long as you've done the work, the cramming for that 456 00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:43,400 stuff is not smart. Because as soon as you go, OK, 457 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:45,520 well, that split is this. And it means this I need to 458 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,120 close and that like that's way too much thinking in a race of 459 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,560 of of only three minutes and 42 seconds. 460 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:58,840 We ended up getting fifty 53151.1246.5341.4 for 1600 and 461 00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:01,360 then 34266. How would you have drawn it up? 462 00:24:02,080 --> 00:24:10,720 We, I think we drew it up AT55155551554557549. 463 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:14,080 I think it's how we had it drawn up as 342.9. 464 00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,520 So we weren't far off. I think what happened was 465 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:22,520 there's there's a touch of wind and the first lap was fast 466 00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:27,240 because of me. I wanted to get out well and 467 00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,880 then let the Pacers go round versus like me waiting for the 468 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:33,920 Pacers to go and then sitting. So what we did was we made the 469 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:39,960 1st 209 meters A274 with the lights instead of 27 seven. 470 00:24:40,320 --> 00:24:43,880 So the 27 seven hours are split and 27 four is what we had for 471 00:24:43,880 --> 00:24:46,800 the first two or nine and then until the 800 mark. 472 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,920 From that 209 mark we had it at 27/7. 473 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,960 And then from there we slowed it down to 2785 and then we then we 474 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:57,360 picked to back up a little bit to 27. 475 00:24:57,360 --> 00:24:59,560 Yeah, 27 six, something like that. 476 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:02,440 So I knew as soon as I like because I had lots of things 477 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:04,520 that I could look at. Like I had the Pacers, I didn't 478 00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:06,440 have to, I didn't look at the pace of 1st 800. 479 00:25:07,120 --> 00:25:13,080 And then I had a look at the case split of the 1009 split and 480 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,360 I was like, yeah. And then I saw 246. 481 00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,440 Anything was fine. And then I was looking at it a 482 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:21,680 bit. I saw the 300 ago. 483 00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:23,680 I needed that at three O 1. Got it. 484 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,360 Three O 1, anything on the 3/28, Your promised land and then 485 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:30,880 straight down the last last 100. So yeah, I mean, there was 486 00:25:30,880 --> 00:25:33,400 obviously a lot going on, but it was as quick as like peeking at 487 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:35,120 it and then coming straight back. 488 00:25:35,120 --> 00:25:39,120 So yeah, there's a lot of a lot of math going into it, but it 489 00:25:39,120 --> 00:25:40,600 was it was fun. It was a fun journey. 490 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:46,000 When during the build up were you like, oh, I got this like I 491 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,440 can do this. Look for my own personal 492 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:51,840 journey, We went back, we looked at tape. 493 00:25:52,120 --> 00:25:56,320 I believed in day one in March. I said I think he can do it. 494 00:25:56,760 --> 00:26:00,400 And then as you did your workouts, I kept analyzing it 495 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,520 with Chris on the pod. But the 262 workout, that's what 496 00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,520 I was like, oh, we're we're doing it. 497 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,720 The 206 hundred 203 sets. I think it was. 498 00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,360 That's when for me it clicked. I said, yeah, unless there's a 499 00:26:13,360 --> 00:26:15,560 thunderstorm, I think Josh has it. 500 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:17,320 So for. You until the 1200. 501 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:23,120 Yeah, it was that was a great. I mean, those workouts like the 502 00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:27,400 four eights were a good start. But like I learnt. 503 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,560 So we have to cut quite a lot from that video because I, I 504 00:26:29,560 --> 00:26:32,040 just went into it a little bit with Danny during one of the, 505 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:35,360 the breaks and I was like, I was like, Danny, like this pace is 506 00:26:35,360 --> 00:26:38,720 too fast, man. Like as in it's not too fast for 507 00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:41,760 my body, which is why the rats were able to be on. 508 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:46,720 But what happens at like the 300 meters, 400 meters into those 509 00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:50,640 reps? And what I find was that once I 510 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,360 relaxed into the pace, thinking like, I've got three more laps 511 00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:57,240 to go, I was like, that's so far. 512 00:26:57,560 --> 00:27:01,560 And so I was 600 meters into these 800 reps being like, like 513 00:27:01,600 --> 00:27:04,320 to have AK left, like I can't wrap my head around that right 514 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:05,960 now. That was really hard for me to 515 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:09,000 wrap my head around. And so he had already decided 516 00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:11,080 that we're going to do the 12 on a time trial with Brandon. 517 00:27:11,080 --> 00:27:14,000 But like, that was that was my, that was my thing. 518 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:19,760 But I called him back in April and I was like talking them 519 00:27:19,760 --> 00:27:21,200 through this and, and this and that. 520 00:27:21,200 --> 00:27:24,280 And like I wasn't, I was in a bit of a mood. 521 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,280 And he was like, Josh, I think I believe that you can do this 522 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:29,800 more than you can right now. And I was like, he's a realist. 523 00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:32,960 Danny is not going to blow smoke like guaranteed. 524 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:35,600 And so I was like, oh shit. Like that's a big confidence 525 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,400 boost. Like, you know, we've been in 526 00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:39,280 shape to do before, like we'll be all right. 527 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:43,040 And then, yeah, the workouts were were just like turn up, do 528 00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:46,280 your job, go home and and not holding too much weight into it. 529 00:27:46,280 --> 00:27:49,560 And then the other twelve time trial was that was probably the 530 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:53,440 easiest one I've done. And then my performance goes, 531 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:54,640 goes, you know, I went out to him. 532 00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:58,160 I was like, I, I wanted that to feel harder and I don't know 533 00:27:58,160 --> 00:28:00,200 why. And he was like, OK, talk to me 534 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720 about that. And I was like, well, I wanted 535 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:06,200 it to feel like real, but it doesn't feel real because it 536 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:08,480 wasn't that hard. And then the question that he 537 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,000 kept asking me was, well, what if it was easy? 538 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:13,800 And if I'm being honest, like that race wasn't hard. 539 00:28:14,040 --> 00:28:17,320 Like I've been in hard races, and not to say it wasn't 540 00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,240 difficult on the legs, but like it was just easy. 541 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:23,680 It just felt right. And the pace, the body knew what 542 00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,040 the pace was. So yeah, it was just flowing 543 00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:28,880 through a lot of emotions. But yeah, we, I don't know, the 544 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:32,240 144 helped a little bit too. Kyle, you had a question about 545 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:34,520 just sort of like training over the last five years and how 546 00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:37,760 certain things have gotten trendy And so like, what was it 547 00:28:37,760 --> 00:28:39,200 exactly? Yeah. 548 00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:44,360 Obviously, given Jakob success the last 5-6 years, Threshold 549 00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:48,840 has become something that every coach in America and probably 550 00:28:49,200 --> 00:28:51,360 across the world is saying like we need to do more, we need to 551 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:55,320 do more threshold. Given this performance and you 552 00:28:55,320 --> 00:29:01,080 having a bit of a different training approach to Jakob, what 553 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:05,320 would coaches or athletes be wise to take away from what you 554 00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:07,920 do in your approach? Like is there something trendy? 555 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,280 It's like, hey, 1200 time trials, that that's the thing to 556 00:29:11,280 --> 00:29:15,000 do a week out. Or is it, hey, maybe mileage 557 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:18,280 isn't everything, you know, 70 miles a week does get the job 558 00:29:18,280 --> 00:29:21,320 done, whatever it might be. It maybe it's not even on the 559 00:29:21,320 --> 00:29:22,880 track and something you're actually doing when you're 560 00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,200 running. But what would you hope it is? 561 00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:30,120 I I hope and you know, the the double threshold and threshold 562 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:33,240 training has has a lot of science to it and I get it. 563 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,080 I just think that sometimes, sometimes athletes are seen as 564 00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,280 the rule when they should be seen as the exception. 565 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,000 And, and I think, you know, and I'm saying it the same for what 566 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,440 I just did. Like I'm not telling you this is 567 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,840 the right way to train. I'm saying it works for me. 568 00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:53,600 And I think what, what really gets me, I'm going to go off a 569 00:29:53,600 --> 00:29:55,800 little bit on this bit because I think it's important. 570 00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,320 I understand the threshold training and athletes want to 571 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,280 run mileage and they want to do this stuff and they want to do 572 00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:03,680 the lactic testing and they want to like do the whole Instagram 573 00:30:03,680 --> 00:30:06,840 thing or whatever. Like learning your paces is so 574 00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,440 important as a kid. Like knowing how, how, like if 575 00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,480 your coach should give you effort based stuff and you 576 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:16,680 should know what your effort is without having to know what your 577 00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:19,000 blood lacta is. If you want to start getting 578 00:30:19,000 --> 00:30:21,640 specific and you're working on one percents, 2 percents, 3 579 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,160 percents and you want to be really specific on that, that's 580 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,720 fine. I, I just don't understand 581 00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:30,080 younger athletes doing the lactate testing because they 582 00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:31,840 want to be able to be in their zones and stuff. 583 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,600 Like you need to learn that. You need to, it's like you need 584 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,200 to learn what pace is you need to run. 585 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:39,800 You need to run a 400 and no within at least a second or a 586 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:41,800 couple seconds of what split you're going to run. 587 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:46,960 Like I think that internalizing of like effort and pace is super 588 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,920 critical for younger athletes. And so if you want to do like 589 00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:53,160 higher mileage double sessions, I understand that you don't want 590 00:30:53,160 --> 00:30:56,080 to go over the limit. But at what level is like a 591 00:30:56,080 --> 00:30:58,760 coach's job, like to tell them, you know, you need to 592 00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:01,960 internalize this stuff or else when you get to races, you don't 593 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:03,800 know what like if you're going to front run, you don't know 594 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:06,200 what split you're going to run. And like, I don't know. 595 00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,680 I just, I dislike that element of it. 596 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:11,640 I like people exploring different training modalities, 597 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:15,440 but that one just like I don't get that one personally. 598 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,920 There's two moments from the race that I want it just kind of 599 00:31:20,920 --> 00:31:23,840 unpack a little bit deeper. One, it's at the starting line, 600 00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:27,720 like with the 60,000 people, you know, getting ready to watch you 601 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:29,680 do this. You do crack a smile, I think 602 00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:31,560 right before when they announce you. 603 00:31:31,800 --> 00:31:35,560 And then two, it's with what is it 150 meters to go? 604 00:31:35,560 --> 00:31:39,160 You go absolutely deaf. Like, and you've said it many 605 00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:41,720 times and told the story like on this podcast before of just sort 606 00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,120 of like the last time that happened was obviously at the 607 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,360 the Paris Olympics. What's happening like internally 608 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,080 in your brain in both of those moments, One where it's sort of 609 00:31:51,080 --> 00:31:53,240 like you're cracking the smile, and the other time was where 610 00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:57,440 this feeling that was all too familiar from another great race 611 00:31:57,440 --> 00:32:00,320 in your career is suddenly happening in this other big 612 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:02,160 moment. Yeah, I mean, it's a great 613 00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:03,880 question. I think, you know, I'm, I'm a 614 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:06,600 very present athlete. It's, you know, it's what we 615 00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,240 work on a lot is like, you know, the only thing you can affect is 616 00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,640 right here right now. And, and there's not many times 617 00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:15,160 in your career where you can have 60,000 people all expect 618 00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:17,600 you to run a Howard record. Like there's, that's never going 619 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:20,560 to happen to me again with the history behind it and 620 00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:22,880 everything. And I was told to enjoy it. 621 00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:26,840 Like, you know, it was so fun. Like I had an absolute blast out 622 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:29,480 there and I'd done the work, like I'd done the work and I 623 00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:31,760 knew I was going to, I was going to enter the tank and whatever 624 00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:34,000 the result was going to be was, was going to be. 625 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:36,760 And so it was just time to enjoy it. 626 00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,720 And I was talking to Brandon on the start line, and I was saying 627 00:32:39,720 --> 00:32:42,960 things to him that I've never realized that he didn't hear. 628 00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:46,280 And it almost actually changed the trajectory of what we were 629 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,080 trying to do. So like, going back to what I 630 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,800 said earlier, like, you know, Jose kept saying that, but what 631 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:54,680 if it was easy? So I said the kidder, but what 632 00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:58,040 if it was easy? And he goes, take it easy, OK. 633 00:32:58,320 --> 00:33:02,680 I was like, I was like, oh, no, like disaster struck, but you 634 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:04,040 know that. So that was really fun. 635 00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,280 I was just taking it in because people were going crazy and they 636 00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:10,280 cared like again, like I didn't know how much people care. 637 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:14,000 Like I actually said something to Brandon and Julian like 638 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,920 couple days before, like we, we hadn't done the amount of 639 00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,280 Instagram stories that I wanted to do. 640 00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,760 And I was like, people aren't going to know what's going on. 641 00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:24,520 And Brandon's like there's a lot of content out of there, dude. 642 00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:27,240 Like it's a big deal. And I was like, oh, OK, that's 643 00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,000 that's good to know. And so like going in the same 644 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:32,600 and people like caring, like really matter to me. 645 00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:38,000 And then with 1:50 to go, yeah, again like I just wasn't 646 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:39,960 fighting the body. Like the big thing that we work 647 00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,400 on, and I would recommend for younger athletes or anyone 648 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:47,760 really, like we work on a non judgmental like mind. 649 00:33:47,760 --> 00:33:51,640 And so, you know, whatever emotions come up, like we greet 650 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,640 at the door and we welcome them in and we explain to them why 651 00:33:54,640 --> 00:33:57,160 they should be there. And, and like, so when doubt 652 00:33:57,160 --> 00:33:59,400 comes in, it's like, OK, like any comic, I understand why 653 00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:01,840 you're dying, run out of anxiousness comes in like you're 654 00:34:01,840 --> 00:34:04,800 like, OK, like that's OK. But these are the reasons that 655 00:34:04,800 --> 00:34:06,280 we've worked and we're ready to go. 656 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:07,920 And then they kind of just flow through. 657 00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:11,159 So nothing's super sticky. And so, yeah, the, the hearing 658 00:34:11,159 --> 00:34:14,719 thing is a weird one just because in Paris it happened so 659 00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:16,560 early and in that one it happened so late. 660 00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:18,920 And so I think it has to be mental versus physical. 661 00:34:19,679 --> 00:34:22,440 I'm exploring it a little bit. I'm not too sure. 662 00:34:22,440 --> 00:34:25,600 But it just, you know, again, it felt like a little bit like I 663 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,920 was out of the body just kind of watching myself do it. 664 00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:31,440 And my body knew what 55 pace was after running it so many 665 00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:32,760 times. It's like it wasn't too 666 00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,400 difficult to hit this hit the splits and I was just having a 667 00:34:35,400 --> 00:34:38,400 good time. Josh, in terms of hyping the 668 00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:40,320 crowd up in the lead in and everything. 669 00:34:40,760 --> 00:34:43,400 So I've been on a big kick where I say we need to give athletes 670 00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,760 microphones more often. Like I think you did a great job 671 00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,719 in giving a very inspiring speech about the next generation 672 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:53,840 and what they should take away from it right after. 673 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:57,080 So I guess was that fun? Was that difficult? 674 00:34:58,040 --> 00:34:59,920 Did you already know what you're going to say in that moment? 675 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,680 But also, would you ever hype a crowd up before a race if we 676 00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:07,200 gave you a microphone? I mean, I had a good time. 677 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:10,520 I think it was nice to be able to speak to every like, because 678 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,880 I was just kind of shouting at my own family and like, like my 679 00:35:13,880 --> 00:35:17,680 people. And there was still an event to 680 00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:20,200 go. And so like I'd said, this is 681 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,720 Spencer. I was like, we should go last. 682 00:35:21,720 --> 00:35:25,120 And he, I think what his dream scenario was is that I pumped 683 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,240 the crowd up enough for the world record that Keely would 684 00:35:27,240 --> 00:35:30,600 then go like have an electric crowds come into. 685 00:35:30,760 --> 00:35:33,040 What realistically happened was we got it. 686 00:35:33,040 --> 00:35:35,600 Everyone was going crazy. We couldn't settle people down 687 00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,000 and they were standing on the start line for an extra 15 688 00:35:38,000 --> 00:35:39,440 minutes. Like that's how it ended up 689 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,480 happening. So I felt bad about that one. 690 00:35:41,480 --> 00:35:45,280 But yeah, I think it, it was really fun. 691 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:50,600 And, and did I rehearse it? No, but I but kind of like I, I 692 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,760 knew someone would ask me the question, like, what did you do 693 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,120 this for? And if I'm being honest, like 694 00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,800 I've done, I've felt like I've done a lot for like my family's 695 00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:05,040 situation and like financially being able to make, you know, 696 00:36:05,320 --> 00:36:08,520 like money for like my future and my future kids and things 697 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:10,120 like that. And you know, there's 698 00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:13,040 definitely, we're at a point now where I'm doing it for me. 699 00:36:13,040 --> 00:36:17,160 Like I like, I know that it's selfish at this point, like, but 700 00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:19,680 I'm not doing it for me. Like now I'm doing it for like 701 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,640 8-9 year old Josh. Like there was like going to the 702 00:36:22,640 --> 00:36:25,600 going to the Meadowbank Stadium on a, on a dark night with my 703 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:29,080 parents driving me there and in the stands, like with a dream 704 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,920 and like, that's who I did it for. 705 00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:36,000 And so I wanted that to come across to to people that need 706 00:36:36,280 --> 00:36:38,920 that inspiration right now. And like, you know, that may be 707 00:36:38,920 --> 00:36:41,440 struggling with an injury or maybe being like, there's no way 708 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:44,200 I could do that. Like, you know, you have to 709 00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,200 start somewhere. And so I just wanted to make 710 00:36:46,200 --> 00:36:48,520 sure that that that came across a little bit. 711 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,600 Two quick ones to close it out. He shot Melgourouge. 712 00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,720 Has he reached out? He was supposed to be there. 713 00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,880 I heard he wasn't allowed in the country. 714 00:36:59,120 --> 00:37:03,080 I don't know what happened. No, he hasn't reached out. 715 00:37:03,240 --> 00:37:06,280 I don't, I've never talked to him or, or whatever. 716 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:09,360 I, you know, I, I, it was his record. 717 00:37:09,360 --> 00:37:12,520 But like, I just always viewed it as like, I always just 718 00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,320 thought of Roger Bannister. Like I just kept thinking like 719 00:37:15,720 --> 00:37:17,960 he's just the greatest of all time. 720 00:37:17,960 --> 00:37:21,240 Like he was the reason that people care about the mile and I 721 00:37:21,240 --> 00:37:23,880 think. And so I just thought that that 722 00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:27,000 was just the guy I kept thinking about and but no, I've never 723 00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:29,640 spoken to him before, never had any contact. 724 00:37:29,640 --> 00:37:34,240 So I, I got told that he took his office at Instagram bio. 725 00:37:34,240 --> 00:37:36,720 So I don't know, he's been respect, I guess. 726 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:40,560 And then the final thing is, when's the when's the next 15? 727 00:37:42,360 --> 00:37:43,880 It's a good question. Obviously got to call me just 728 00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:47,240 next week, Wednesday, Saturday of next week, which I'm super 729 00:37:47,240 --> 00:37:50,080 excited about. And then it's like, you know, 730 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,360 we'll be very transparent and host. 731 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:54,080 Call me. So sad. 732 00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:56,720 I'll be Saturday. I'll have more media to do. 733 00:37:56,720 --> 00:38:00,640 I think Sunday, Monday, Tuesday. And then, you know, I'm going to 734 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:04,080 sit down, have a meeting with Julian and and Danny and just, 735 00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:06,440 you know, chat about what's possible. 736 00:38:06,440 --> 00:38:08,720 Really. I know that Ray's kind of been 737 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:12,440 on on Air World Ultimates a little bit for a wild card 738 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,160 because I just have absolutely no point in my world rankings, 739 00:38:16,160 --> 00:38:19,360 like a million, so nowhere near it. 740 00:38:19,360 --> 00:38:21,920 So yeah, I, I don't know, I would love to keep going. 741 00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,640 I feel fresh. I feel good. 742 00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:25,400 Men say I'm in a really good spot. 743 00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,160 I'm having a great time with it. And I just want to race like I 744 00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:29,640 want to keep keep the momentum going. 745 00:38:29,640 --> 00:38:32,720 But also there's this element of flying too close to the sun that 746 00:38:32,720 --> 00:38:34,520 that Danny's worried about. And I get that. 747 00:38:34,520 --> 00:38:37,400 So yeah, there might have to be a bit of a balance with it all, 748 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,520 but I want to keep going. And as soon as we have those 749 00:38:40,520 --> 00:38:42,480 race plans, it will be announced 100%. 750 00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:45,240 Perfect. Well, Josh, we always appreciate 751 00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,200 you making time for us and it's been really cool to celebrate so 752 00:38:48,200 --> 00:38:52,120 many big moments in your career, whether it's at Milrose Games or 753 00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:53,960 at in Paris at the Olympics with you. 754 00:38:53,960 --> 00:38:57,400 And now here to when you get to call yourself a world record 755 00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,720 holder. So always, always a blast and 756 00:38:59,720 --> 00:39:01,400 always a pleasure. Thank you guys. 757 00:39:01,400 --> 00:39:04,960 Appreciate it. All right, that's a wrap on 758 00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,240 today's episode. Thanks for listening, for the 759 00:39:07,240 --> 00:39:10,200 time, the curiosity, and for making this show part of your 760 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,320 routine or your run. A big thanks to our producer 761 00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,160 Jasmine Fair and to everyone behind the scenes who helps make 762 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,880 the Sidious Magic Podcast happen. 763 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:20,320 If you enjoyed today's episode, a quick five star review on 764 00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,200 Apple Podcast or Spotify helps people find this show and we 765 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:26,080 read every single one. You can find 766 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,920 muchmoretrackandfieldcoverage@sidiousmag.com and you can follow along across 767 00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:31,480 all of Sidious Mag social channels. 768 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:33,760 We'll see you next time. Thanks again for listening.