1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,880 Coach Patrick sang, welcome to New York City. 2 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:06,240 Thank you for having me here. Thank you for having me in the 3 00:00:06,240 --> 00:00:09,800 NN running team pop up store here in New York City. 4 00:00:10,040 --> 00:00:13,040 Right behind us there's this wall with so many 5 00:00:13,120 --> 00:00:15,280 accomplishments from over the years. 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,160 When you look at this, what is it? 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:19,960 What does it mean to you to be part of so much history with 8 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:24,320 this team? Sitting here and seeing all 9 00:00:24,320 --> 00:00:29,240 these takes me a long, long, beautiful memory lane. 10 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:35,280 Yeah. It brings memories to mind that 11 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,080 are fresh when I look at them, you know, they it's like it just 12 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:39,960 happened. Yeah. 13 00:00:40,240 --> 00:00:43,880 And it's beautiful. I mean, these are the moments 14 00:00:44,480 --> 00:00:47,600 that you want to remember all the time. 15 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:53,640 My favorite is the photo from 2018 of Elliot hugging you right 16 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:57,480 after he crossed the finish line and he ran 20139. 17 00:00:57,520 --> 00:00:59,120 First time he broke the world record. 18 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:01,280 What do you remember about that hug? 19 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:09,360 You know, in, in, in Berlin, when you're a coach or somebody 20 00:01:09,360 --> 00:01:12,920 closer to an athlete that is leading, they bring you to a 21 00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:15,600 special place close to the finish line. 22 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:19,720 And as the race comes to an end, you know, they, they bring you 23 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:25,360 closer so that, you know, you have a moment to just to, to 24 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:28,720 receive them and celebrate with the that athlete. 25 00:01:29,480 --> 00:01:34,960 So for me, it was like any normal arrangements that I was 26 00:01:34,960 --> 00:01:38,520 used to. But you know, if you see that 27 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:40,680 picture, there's something special about it. 28 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:46,320 And what is special about it is that I was reflecting just when 29 00:01:46,320 --> 00:01:50,160 Elliot was coming like this. I was reflecting to the time he 30 00:01:50,160 --> 00:01:53,600 came to me to ask for a training plan. 31 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,920 And I was like, you know, so many things were going like 32 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:03,520 OverDrive in my brain and said if I had made a mistake, I was 33 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:07,760 asking myself if I had made a mistake not to handle this guy 34 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:12,040 in a proper way, would we be seeing what is happening now? 35 00:02:12,840 --> 00:02:15,520 So that was the question. So I was really crying. 36 00:02:15,520 --> 00:02:20,520 And I remember later on during the day, my son was us writing 37 00:02:20,520 --> 00:02:23,000 to me. You know, why were you crying? 38 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:28,280 And so it's that moment. It was not about exactly that 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:31,520 moment. I was now reflecting, you know, 40 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,960 when you don't know anybody, I mean, anything about somebody 41 00:02:34,960 --> 00:02:39,760 that approaches you, then you walk together and then down the 42 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,040 road you achieve what just happened. 43 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,760 Then the the brain plays a lot of tricks on you. 44 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:52,680 That relationship with Elliot now has been over 2 decades at 45 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:59,400 this point and you work with him as coach but also as mentor, 46 00:02:59,840 --> 00:03:03,520 teacher, friend. How have you seen that 47 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:05,880 relationship develop over 20 years? 48 00:03:05,880 --> 00:03:08,560 And we're like, when you remember that first day when he 49 00:03:08,560 --> 00:03:12,800 asked you for training plan, how different of a person was he 50 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:19,200 then to who he is now? When is he? 51 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:25,560 Elliott is been elude through throughout but like seasons, 52 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:31,840 even the tree that you saw when it was spring, when you see it 53 00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:38,040 in October, then it changes some features but not everything 54 00:03:38,040 --> 00:03:41,640 about it. I think what has really evolved 55 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:50,640 is is Eliot from being that talented young kid to elude the 56 00:03:51,320 --> 00:03:56,800 the one that has packet the the our sport and presented it in a 57 00:03:56,840 --> 00:04:00,560 in a beautiful way. So this been a transition, not 58 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,400 necessarily in the integral part of the person, but then the 59 00:04:04,440 --> 00:04:08,320 outside part and none. And I think that's what the wall 60 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:13,720 of, you know, athletics in general and now more the the 61 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:18,399 wall of marathon running is impressing that transformation 62 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:24,560 that the talent has been packaged maybe much more better 63 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:30,480 than what was happening before. How is your coaching philosophy 64 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:36,640 changed in that whole time? We the the world is really 65 00:04:36,640 --> 00:04:41,040 dynamic in in in many ways, and so is the the process of 66 00:04:41,040 --> 00:04:43,720 learning. The process of learning is a is 67 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:47,600 a continuous process. If you speak to any teacher, 68 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:51,200 they'll tell you that the acquisition of knowledge is a 69 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:54,960 continuous process. For me, working with the likes 70 00:04:54,960 --> 00:05:00,800 of Elliot, in Elliot in particular, it's been a 71 00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:03,640 transformational journey in itself. 72 00:05:04,480 --> 00:05:08,400 How you see the world, how I saw the world in the beginning when 73 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,360 I first interacted with him, it really changed. 74 00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:14,960 And it's changed the way I thought about things then and 75 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,360 the way I think about things now. 76 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:25,000 And you transformed my thinking in a way that it showed me it's 77 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:31,120 possible at one point in your journey to be a student when 78 00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:35,840 yesterday you are a teacher. So there are so many things that 79 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,360 we don't know about ourselves and we don't know about other 80 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:45,440 people, but they unfail themselves in ways that can get 81 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,160 you off cut. And one of the things that 82 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,120 really changed and shifted my philosophy of coaching is that 83 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,720 sometimes it's good to take a back seat and observe what is 84 00:05:57,000 --> 00:05:59,800 happening around you. And now you can pick one or two 85 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:03,560 things. So hence the the message that 86 00:06:04,240 --> 00:06:07,680 learning is a continuous process and it shifts your philosophy, 87 00:06:07,680 --> 00:06:13,200 shifts your thinking. Before it was like I believed my 88 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:17,200 philosophy on coaching is that it's based on trust that that it 89 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:21,920 gives you total trust and you shape the journey in the running 90 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:24,800 career. But it rigid in the case of 91 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,040 Elliot reached the point where I realized that I didn't know so 92 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:32,360 much about the minds, the mental strand of of an individual. 93 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:36,160 Of course it came through interacting with Elliot, but I 94 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,160 think it's, it applies across the board to people that 95 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:43,560 sometimes you see them, but you don't know until they're pushed, 96 00:06:43,840 --> 00:06:49,040 but they show you the intentions that you're not expecting that 97 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:51,920 they're going for big things. Then you say, hey, whoa, where 98 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,800 did this come from? And I think that is been a 99 00:06:54,800 --> 00:06:59,520 learning journey for me. It transformed trust to being a 100 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:03,520 a student teacher. When you began coaching, I mean, 101 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,680 you, you had a transition, you were a phenomenal athlete on the 102 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,080 track. And then when you decided to get 103 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,920 into coaching on the technical side of, of coaching, you know, 104 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:15,760 there's the legendary books, the lid yard. 105 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:19,840 There's, you know, everyone studies on anaerobic aerobic and 106 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,560 you know, now there is the Norwegian method, everything. 107 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,920 Where did you begin to form like you're, you're the, the 108 00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:29,600 technical side of your coaching philosophy and, and in the last 109 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:33,560 20 years, there's so much advances in science and, and 110 00:07:33,560 --> 00:07:36,720 technology, the shoes, everything has changed that it 111 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:40,360 also forces you to change things a little bit here and there. 112 00:07:42,560 --> 00:07:47,200 My Chinese probably in the field of coaching probably is 113 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:49,600 different from maybe other people. 114 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:56,600 I could say I went into learning coaching business by default 115 00:07:58,040 --> 00:08:00,080 personally when I ran in college. 116 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:04,800 At least in college you have a coach and then when you're out 117 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,480 of college and you're interested in continuing with running, you 118 00:08:08,480 --> 00:08:11,720 are on your own because otherwise, if you are an elite 119 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:14,680 athlete, you can engage a coach. So I found myself in this 120 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,480 quagmire where you know you're finished university and you want 121 00:08:18,480 --> 00:08:22,680 to continue running. And so I ended up being my 122 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,320 coach. I coached, started coaching 123 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:31,440 myself and I think if you, if you want to see the defining 124 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:35,799 moment in anything that becomes a successful journey down the 125 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,799 road, it starts somewhere. And I think for me it started 126 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:42,120 then. And when it started it, it 127 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:46,440 created some kind of curiosity within me to to look around and 128 00:08:46,440 --> 00:08:50,480 say, OK, if I want to continue running seriously, what do I do? 129 00:08:50,920 --> 00:08:54,120 So you start investing in knowledge, what is available, 130 00:08:54,120 --> 00:08:58,280 reading, you know, magazines, there are so many magazines 131 00:08:58,280 --> 00:09:00,840 around that time. I mean now we have Internet. 132 00:09:01,320 --> 00:09:05,560 So you just investing in and engaging, talking to people and 133 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:11,160 experimenting. So the the finish line where we 134 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:14,800 have now or where or where we've been over the years that we are 135 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,600 talking about the successful stories of the athletes that 136 00:09:17,600 --> 00:09:24,600 have come through my hands. It started then so and it became 137 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,120 a journey where you you're building 1 block after another 138 00:09:29,520 --> 00:09:31,400 and it was getting better and better. 139 00:09:32,800 --> 00:09:35,280 Of course, in the in, in, in the same journey. 140 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:41,080 I ended up being trained coach, going through the process of 141 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:45,440 being trained and that was around 2:01 where I speak to 142 00:09:46,360 --> 00:09:49,400 specialized, given an opportunity actually to 143 00:09:49,400 --> 00:09:53,920 specialized in coaching middle and long distance, which I took 144 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:58,680 with both hands. And so it gave me another 145 00:09:58,680 --> 00:10:02,320 perspective, the perspective of really trying to see the bigger 146 00:10:02,320 --> 00:10:05,880 picture that what it means to train an athlete who is running 147 00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,000 815 hundred 10,000 all the way to a marathon. 148 00:10:11,160 --> 00:10:15,600 And it gave fresh life to my young coaching career. 149 00:10:16,080 --> 00:10:20,280 And over time, of course, you, you, you go to seminars, you go 150 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,200 to meetings, you get to gain 1-2. 151 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,960 But the gaining is actually more refining than adding new things. 152 00:10:28,960 --> 00:10:32,400 And if even if you go to history, what we talk about the 153 00:10:32,440 --> 00:10:37,280 new Norwegian model is what was already experimented in many 154 00:10:37,280 --> 00:10:41,000 years back by people like Sotobek and what have you. 155 00:10:42,320 --> 00:10:45,320 So there's nothing new. It's just refining to fit what 156 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:46,840 you want to achieve at any given moment. 157 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:52,360 And so over time, I don't think my philosophy of coaching 158 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,920 changed, but the approach changed somehow because of the 159 00:10:56,920 --> 00:10:58,680 new breed of athletes you're dealing with. 160 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:04,360 In the cases of people like Eliot, they, they gave me total 161 00:11:04,360 --> 00:11:07,920 trust. And which is good because it 162 00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:12,960 gives you total autonomy to, to give your best when, when you 163 00:11:12,960 --> 00:11:20,800 have at least that are 5020, I mean 8020, then you don't give 164 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,760 your best as a coach when you're given 100%. 165 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:28,520 Just like somebody giving you just a blank check, right? 166 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:34,240 Any amount it, it, it deals something different in you, it, 167 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:38,440 it, it, it makes you become more responsible. 168 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:43,920 You know, you, you take risks where you are really sure of, 169 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:49,840 you know, you know, we can talk about when you just said at one 170 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:54,360 point to, to try to think about breaking 2, you know, when they 171 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:57,080 interacted with Nike. So when I looked at him, I said, 172 00:11:57,080 --> 00:12:01,800 hey, are you crazy? His PB was 2O3 or two O 4 I 173 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:02,800 think. Something like that. 174 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,320 So I said how, how, where did this one come from? 175 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:10,200 You know? But just because he had given me 176 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,960 total trust, I, I never thought about myself like, hey, this is 177 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:17,400 impossible. I said no, this guy has believed 178 00:12:17,760 --> 00:12:21,080 and I have to go with him and I'll go give my best as the 179 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:26,160 coach and, and when, when when he landed IN20026. 180 00:12:26,160 --> 00:12:29,400 And that was amazing. So it gave me also a lot of 181 00:12:29,400 --> 00:12:33,160 confidence that, you know, instead of copying what people 182 00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:38,920 do, you study the subject and give your best knowing the 183 00:12:38,920 --> 00:12:42,160 subject very well. The the subject is the athlete 184 00:12:42,160 --> 00:12:44,800 that you're dealing with and applying the knowledge that you 185 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,840 have acquired over time on this specific area of marathon 186 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,920 training. What do you remember when you 187 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,360 know for the first time with with breaking 2 like Nike 188 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,560 presents their ideas right? They show you the the shoes, the 189 00:12:59,560 --> 00:13:02,920 prototypes and everything. They do the lab tests, a lot of 190 00:13:02,920 --> 00:13:09,440 science and a lot of technology and then you old school approach 191 00:13:09,440 --> 00:13:12,720 to coaching. And also with running, it's a 192 00:13:12,720 --> 00:13:16,080 simple sport, right? You run, you do the workouts, 193 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:17,800 you do the long runs, you're going to get better. 194 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:22,560 And so when they present all these ideas to you, how much do 195 00:13:22,560 --> 00:13:26,120 you remember being like, OK, I have to be open to these new 196 00:13:26,120 --> 00:13:28,480 ideas. And what was that process like 197 00:13:28,480 --> 00:13:32,040 for you as a coach to let go a little bit control? 198 00:13:34,840 --> 00:13:38,360 What I like with the, the whole idea was that they didn't come 199 00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:42,480 and say this is the way, you know, they came and said, OK, we 200 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:47,920 are there to help you, you know, in this journey that Elliot and 201 00:13:47,920 --> 00:13:52,080 the two other athletes, the Ethiopian and the Eritrean, I've 202 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,360 decided to partner with Nike to try something new. 203 00:13:56,120 --> 00:14:01,360 So I, I think the win was for me when they said we're here to 204 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:05,560 help, you know, I think if they had to come and say this is the 205 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:07,080 way. This is the workouts and 206 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:09,960 everything you said now. Then I think the outcome would 207 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:14,000 have been different in terms of how I would have internalized. 208 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:18,400 So the fact that they say, hey, we're here if you need us, we're 209 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:24,040 there to support you in a way. They never really interfered 210 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:26,160 with the technical aspects of the training and the 211 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,520 preparation. They came in support on all the 212 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:33,440 auxiliary services that we, you would really need. 213 00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,200 You need virtues, you need advice on nutrition, you, you 214 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,480 need advice on all sorts of things that you don't have full 215 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,400 control over as a coach. So I think it, to me, it was 216 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:50,760 more a, a complimentary way of partnering other than saying, 217 00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:54,760 hey, we have this project we're going to do the way we know, you 218 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:59,640 know, and, and I, I must thank them because of the approach 219 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,360 and, and the success of course, was driven by the athletes 220 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,840 themselves, because without the athlete also buying in to the 221 00:15:08,840 --> 00:15:13,040 whole process, then, then if you had the best question, it 222 00:15:13,040 --> 00:15:15,960 amounts to nothing. Breaking 2 was a big turning 223 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,680 point because he comes very close and then he gets better 224 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:24,720 and then the second time around he does it And so that, you 225 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:26,720 know, mission accomplished with with the sub 2. 226 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,720 So then this time around with, you know, breaking four with 227 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:36,200 faith, was it another easy thing for you to process of like the 228 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,080 same similar process that we did with Elliot is now going to 229 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:43,240 happen with Faith or was or how was Breaking four different? 230 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:48,320 Interestingly, the two athletes that we talked about here, Faith 231 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:53,720 and, and, and Elliot, they somehow reflect one another, 232 00:15:54,240 --> 00:15:56,960 especially in terms of how they see the sport, how they see 233 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:02,120 themselves and how they, they, they, they internalize the roles 234 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:07,000 of the support systems. They, they are almost the same. 235 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:13,400 So the project breaking for to me, it went very well. 236 00:16:13,400 --> 00:16:17,400 Of course we had a few challenges here and there that 237 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:22,280 we could not have full control, but the journey was more or less 238 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,480 the same. Looking back, you know, in 239 00:16:25,480 --> 00:16:31,880 breaking to the initial and of course eventually the process 240 00:16:31,880 --> 00:16:36,320 was more or less smooth. But in the case of faith it was 241 00:16:37,320 --> 00:16:40,160 it's a bit different. Of course the person did not 242 00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:43,480 change. Circumstances were not as well 243 00:16:44,280 --> 00:16:50,400 worked out as the other one of pracking too. 244 00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:55,440 Given another opportunity, I think it's possible to make some 245 00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,640 amendments. Of course, the ultimate call is 246 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:08,319 for the two cases is that they allow people to think that our 247 00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:15,440 imaginations can be expanded, that the human mind and 248 00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:20,359 possibilities are elastic. With anything elastic, that 249 00:17:20,359 --> 00:17:24,000 means you can stretch it further, further than where it 250 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:26,560 can reach. And in, you know, in the two 251 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,800 cases, Faith and Eliot showed us that the possibilities that we 252 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:34,840 can still stretch some things. And the belief, of course, we 253 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:41,600 saw a few days later in New York, not in Eugene, that it 254 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:43,520 was. I mean, Faith was able to run a 255 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:49,760 world record, which which means that what we did technically and 256 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,520 all the support that went into the preparation for breaking, 257 00:17:53,920 --> 00:17:59,000 breaking for did not go in vain. You know, it, it resulted in 258 00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:02,360 something else which was a world record in 1500. 259 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:07,880 So it's still possible. I'm sure psychologically I was a 260 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:15,680 bit worried for Faith in Paris because I think I have not 261 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:19,600 talked to her about the whole episode, but you could see 262 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,280 facially body language that it could have been better. 263 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:29,840 What could have been better? Is it the time, Is it the 264 00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,960 preparation or was it the the whole setup? 265 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,720 I don't know, but maybe people like you can probe that 266 00:18:38,720 --> 00:18:39,920 question. Yeah, debate. 267 00:18:41,120 --> 00:18:44,680 Because maybe if I do it, she'll probably give me one line 268 00:18:44,680 --> 00:18:48,120 statement. But when you engage, maybe when 269 00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,720 you one time you, you meet her, it would be good to know. 270 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:56,200 But you could see from the facial that something could have 271 00:18:56,200 --> 00:18:58,200 been done better. So. 272 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:04,480 But I believe technically we did everything right because of 273 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:11,120 course, what we saw in Eugene, proof that what I was worried 274 00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:18,840 between Eugene and Paris is the mental state of faith, whether 275 00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,760 she was going to to to internalize it negatively or 276 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,400 positively. But I think the outcome in 277 00:19:25,400 --> 00:19:28,160 Eugene change everything, you know, put everything in the 278 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:33,000 equilibrium that all was well. And I think that's why she was 279 00:19:33,000 --> 00:19:39,080 able to to have, you know, the next part of the season going 280 00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:44,280 well for her. With Faith, how do you continued 281 00:19:44,280 --> 00:19:49,000 to challenge her in training and in the races? 282 00:19:49,160 --> 00:19:51,560 Because she's been able to do it all. 283 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:56,440 Like I, I feel like at a world championship, it's almost like 284 00:19:57,120 --> 00:19:59,640 you can put any plan in front of her and she will execute it 285 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:02,120 perfectly. The world championship final, 286 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:06,280 the way she ran that race, to me, I believe that that was the 287 00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:09,640 most that that was the best executed. 288 00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,240 Run for gold at the whole entire world championship. 289 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,600 She squeezed the pace out of every one of her competitors. 290 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:17,800 So how do you how do you do that? 291 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:19,160 How did you come up with that plan? 292 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,920 And then how do you challenge faith every day in in practice 293 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:25,000 to be able to do show up and do that when it matters? 294 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:30,440 Technically, I, I don't speak so much to my athletes. 295 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:37,360 I, I don't discuss what I plan for them, but I, I, I drive, I, 296 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:41,640 I, I get what they, they want from them. 297 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,000 You know, you can see by interacting with somebody, this 298 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:49,440 is where their minds, their bodies willing to go to. 299 00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,920 And then you craft the training plan to take them there. 300 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,360 Because I have a belief. I mean, maybe there's a problem 301 00:20:58,360 --> 00:21:04,640 and maybe a shortfall on my part that having been an athlete 302 00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,640 before, I, I never wanted to discuss any or anybody to 303 00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,040 discuss with me a race plan because I would get so anxious 304 00:21:13,720 --> 00:21:17,200 and, you know, end up wasting a lot of energy thinking about the 305 00:21:17,200 --> 00:21:22,400 race that had not happened. So I've borrowed this way of 306 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,520 looking at things and transported it to how I contact 307 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,320 my technical training. So what I normally do is I 308 00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:36,000 studied the person without asking them and then craft the 309 00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,520 training plan to take them where they they should go or they want 310 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:43,480 to go without discussing. Because even when I transition 311 00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:46,800 fed from 1500 to 5000, we never sat down and discussed. 312 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,400 Now we are going to go to 5000. I only changed the training plan 313 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,240 to go from 1500 to accommodate both events. 314 00:21:54,240 --> 00:22:00,560 Actually 1500 and and and and 5000 and then in the process she 315 00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,880 runs the 1st 50, 1500. I'm sure it was a world record 316 00:22:04,520 --> 00:22:06,840 in Florence. And she was like, I'm not tired. 317 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:10,640 I mean, but the the work had already been put in place from 318 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,360 the beginning of the the season when you start planning, OK, we 319 00:22:14,360 --> 00:22:18,040 do plans for the season at the end of the season, the next 320 00:22:18,040 --> 00:22:22,320 season. And that's when we had plan to 321 00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,680 see a possibility of trying the longer distance. 322 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,160 So I mean that is left now to me to plan. 323 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,920 So if you engage the athlete and then you start talking about the 324 00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,360 training that would entail, then they psychologically they can be 325 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:39,040 somewhat disturbed. Yeah. 326 00:22:40,200 --> 00:22:44,160 So with someone like Faith and and creating that profile that 327 00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:48,360 you assess for the training she's had, she's going to 328 00:22:48,360 --> 00:22:51,320 continue to have amazing success in the 1500. 329 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,120 She's doing really well in the 5K. 330 00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:56,760 But you know, she's also openly saying that she's thinking about 331 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,800 the longer distances. So where do you begin as a 332 00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:01,640 coach? Like, what are the boxes you, 333 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,760 you, you look at for like if Faith wants to jump up then 334 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:08,560 into, you know, a little bit longer distance, it could be 335 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,640 10K, it could be on the roads, whatever. 336 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,920 Where, where do you look at? OK, this is what we need to do. 337 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,640 Where do What are the boxes that she needs for a successful 338 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:23,360 transition? The way I look at the transition 339 00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,160 for any athlete, even for Elliot, when it transition from 340 00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:35,800 track to to road running and and marathon eventually is is how 341 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:40,520 they their mindset is. It's not what I want for them. 342 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:44,240 It's the mindset. And that mindset gives you room 343 00:23:45,360 --> 00:23:50,760 to experiment. And when the mindset is flexible 344 00:23:50,760 --> 00:23:54,480 towards a certain direction. So I start experimenting at the, 345 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,880 the beginning of the season to see what, what are the 346 00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:03,680 parameters telling me? Are they likely to go that 347 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:05,920 direction? Like in the, in the case of 348 00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,800 Elliot, we didn't know anything. So we were like, the guy could 349 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:14,120 not make the, the, the, the London world champion, I mean 350 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,080 Olympic Games team just because of an hamstring. 351 00:24:17,120 --> 00:24:21,520 And then we said, what is there? You've achieved everything, so 352 00:24:21,520 --> 00:24:24,080 why don't we try? So it was more like trying. 353 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,080 In the case of Faith, she's already shown the indication 354 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,920 that I want to go there. So now the case of Faith is 355 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,680 totally different because Faith is known for 1500. 356 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:41,960 Yeah. And, you know, all things around 357 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:46,680 her is based on performance in 1500 and now 5000. 358 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:53,120 The the consultation would be even broader than when it was 359 00:24:53,120 --> 00:24:57,880 the case of Elliot, because now you have to to to look at who is 360 00:24:57,880 --> 00:24:59,720 behind Faith. Yeah. 361 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:04,160 In terms of the partnership, what are they also thinking? 362 00:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,720 You know, without asking the athlete, you just feel, you 363 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,600 know, you just interact with the marketing team, with the 364 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:15,600 sponsors, with, you know, all these management teams that are 365 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,120 around what, what is their thinking? 366 00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:22,440 What is their thinking? Then now as a coach you, you now 367 00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:27,600 find your way of marrying all these things and going the 368 00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:35,240 journey when it will be is probably something that we can 369 00:25:35,240 --> 00:25:40,920 see in the course of next season because now she has just 370 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:44,120 finished the season there. Whatever a few that we are going 371 00:25:44,120 --> 00:25:48,600 to have will give us a picture of whether the mine is 372 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:53,400 indicating that she would like to go, whether it's it's going 373 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:59,040 to be a slow process or just jumping into the new environment 374 00:26:00,080 --> 00:26:04,680 as far as running is concerned. Does it give you like the the 375 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,560 data the of the people who are finishing behind Faith Stephane, 376 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:12,000 Helen O'berry? They've made such a great 377 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,920 transition to an event like the marathon and like they're 378 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:18,440 running some of the best times in in history. 379 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:23,200 It's not as easy to just think Faith is going to be immediately 380 00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:24,880 world class at the at the marathon. 381 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,320 It could. Like Elliot, it took a while to 382 00:26:27,320 --> 00:26:32,080 get to to that that moment. Yeah, yeah, you need to OK the 383 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:34,400 the people have gone ahead of high, especially the female 384 00:26:34,440 --> 00:26:36,840 runners. You've mentioned the names of 385 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,880 Perry Sifan. It's a clear indicator that the, 386 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,200 there's, there's room there, there's a place for Faith there 387 00:26:45,640 --> 00:26:49,960 and we would want to see also what she could, she can do in 388 00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:57,480 that territory. When I look at Faith and I look 389 00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:03,760 at what we've been doing since 2019 as far as the, the 390 00:27:03,760 --> 00:27:07,480 preparation stage of the season is concerned. 391 00:27:08,040 --> 00:27:11,880 Now, the the kind of training that we've done, of course, it 392 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,640 was basically to, to mitigate other things. 393 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:20,280 I don't want to say this what it is. 394 00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,880 You know, Faith came to my training plan when she was 395 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:30,520 already an established athlete. And what, what was, what is 396 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,640 strange with me is that I don't ask what you have been doing. 397 00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,800 I start afresh like, you know, senior athlete. 398 00:27:37,920 --> 00:27:39,160 I remember you told me this in Kenya. 399 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:41,760 Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I I do with 400 00:27:41,800 --> 00:27:44,800 all the athletes that come to crossover because I don't want 401 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:49,760 to prejudice my mind. So what I realized was that 402 00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:56,400 there was some cups that needed to be improved and that's what I 403 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,440 improved and it, it gave us 2 possibilities, the possibility 404 00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,840 to move to the longer distance and to mitigate what we were 405 00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:09,760 looking at prevention of injuries by setting a very 406 00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,920 strong base. So that base like I said 407 00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:17,480 earlier, the winning is not at the finish line. 408 00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:20,960 The winning is at the start of the whole journey. 409 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,400 So where we started with faith, we have started building a broad 410 00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:30,120 base towards a running, a running approach towards the 411 00:28:30,120 --> 00:28:32,240 season. We we are getting better. 412 00:28:32,240 --> 00:28:35,760 Even the the volume of the distance that we're doing now is 413 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:42,600 giving us a good indicator that she's capable of doing what the 414 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:46,960 the the athletes that used to do 1500 like herself what we are 415 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,120 doing now. With the case of, you know, if 416 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:53,720 we go back to talking about Elliot for for a bit, you know, 417 00:28:54,360 --> 00:28:58,720 as he became so dominant in the marathon, who became the world 418 00:28:58,720 --> 00:29:01,360 record holder, double Olympic champion for you, I guess. 419 00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,400 So what was was the training the whole entire time? 420 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:08,160 If we looked at the training plan for 2018 Berlin and then 421 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:14,160 the 2019 Berlin marathon, like with it, was the training 422 00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:16,560 similar all throughout this this whole entire time? 423 00:29:17,760 --> 00:29:21,400 What was there more mileage, more speed work that he was 424 00:29:21,400 --> 00:29:24,560 doing, more track work like in in all these different moments 425 00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,080 compared to and then compare, how does that compare to now? 426 00:29:29,120 --> 00:29:32,120 What chint? Nothing really changed. 427 00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,240 Nothing similar. Yeah, it's probably similar. 428 00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:41,720 But if you look at preparation towards the two areas that 429 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:46,360 you've mentioned where he was really doing very well, fast, 430 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,840 running very fast, there was a longer preparation period. 431 00:29:49,880 --> 00:29:54,440 Yeah, they, they, they said practice makes perfect. 432 00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:00,400 And I guess, you know, in a way, we have some lessons that that 433 00:30:00,520 --> 00:30:05,680 if, if you prepare longer, you know, you're, you're, it's just 434 00:30:05,680 --> 00:30:13,520 like roasting beef in a, in, in a, in a very nice fire, but you, 435 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:17,880 you move the beef slightly further from the fire, that beef 436 00:30:17,880 --> 00:30:22,400 will cook better. So those are last learning 437 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:26,160 lessons that are also that if you want to prepare for serious 438 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:29,760 marathon bigger, you know, achievement in marathon, you 439 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,120 need more time than traditional four months. 440 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:37,400 If you look at the breaking 2, I think we were talking about 441 00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,280 close to seven months or something like that. 442 00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:44,760 And the other one, 159 challenge was closer to that as well. 443 00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:50,400 So one key thing that needs to be factored in in any training 444 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:54,400 regardless of what distance you're training, is this what is 445 00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:58,720 coming out of the new even approaches to distance running. 446 00:30:59,120 --> 00:31:02,520 And that is one of the key things that we've always 447 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,080 compromised in running is the rest and recovery. 448 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:12,360 Those two things when factored very well at least can achieve 449 00:31:12,360 --> 00:31:15,560 more. And I think in the preparation 450 00:31:15,560 --> 00:31:22,120 we factored in those two aspects, the aspect of good rest 451 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:28,880 and adequate recovery. So that you know, you in in 452 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,880 training, you have what is called a super compensation when 453 00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,800 you train and then you you recover and then you push again. 454 00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,960 You know, there's an aspect of having better returns in terms 455 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,600 of what you put in when it comes to the output. 456 00:31:44,560 --> 00:31:49,680 In your analogy of, you know, roasting the beef seven months 457 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:53,480 in the lead up to, you know, breaking 2 and now we've got 63 458 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:58,560 days between Sydney and New York that that beef is is right on 459 00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:03,800 top of the fire at that point. So how for Elliott, this is new 460 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,720 3 marathons in one year. He's never done this before. 461 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,800 Like, how has this been also just sort of as Elliott has 462 00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:14,200 gotten older now in these last two years and you know, he's not 463 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,720 as as dominant as he once was? Like this is also an exploration 464 00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,040 in in sort of what what he can still do. 465 00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:28,000 If, if, if you picked up from what I said last about what were 466 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:34,040 the lessons learned in preparing for breaking 2:00 and 1:59 467 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120 challenge? I I mentioned 2 items, recovery 468 00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:43,560 and rest. Yeah, those are the two things 469 00:32:43,560 --> 00:32:48,840 that coaches can, can play with if an athlete has been preparing 470 00:32:48,840 --> 00:32:52,360 so well, whatever you've done is not lost. 471 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:58,400 The challenge is how do you maintain what you've done such 472 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:03,760 that it's not going to waste? So it's more preservation. 473 00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,840 So it's like we've moved the beef slightly away from the 474 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:12,000 fire, but still within the fire soon. 475 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,720 So it it continued cooking from Sydney all the way here. 476 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,840 And now he's here ready for New York with, with I guess like 477 00:33:21,840 --> 00:33:25,680 with Boston, the challenge was the, you know, the course for, 478 00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:29,280 for him like, and how it, you know, wasn't a great day and 479 00:33:29,280 --> 00:33:31,920 that was rare. New York's also a very 480 00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:33,240 challenging course with the bridges. 481 00:33:33,440 --> 00:33:36,600 Was there any adjustments made to the training for this one 482 00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:40,400 that you learned from Boston 2023? 483 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,680 Yeah, we in the in the early stages of the training, we we 484 00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:52,280 made some challenge changes to benefit is also like, you know, 485 00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:57,880 you, you, you try things and the people who trained with him and 486 00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:00,640 went to challenge courses, they did very well. 487 00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:06,320 So which means that the intervention that we did going 488 00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:11,000 forward is going to help to, to address the shortfalls that 489 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,280 were, were experienced in Boston. 490 00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:16,880 It's not only him, it's basically most of the athletes 491 00:34:16,880 --> 00:34:20,760 that I've, I've trained. Because when you're training an 492 00:34:20,760 --> 00:34:24,320 athlete and you've been, you have never been to the venue or 493 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,040 the course. You, you, you don't really get 494 00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:30,560 to internalise the challenge, especially like in the case of 495 00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:32,239 Boston going downhill from the start. 496 00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:36,760 I mean, it's, it's in training you, you start differently. 497 00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:41,080 So it requires some serious intervention. 498 00:34:41,080 --> 00:34:45,000 It's like even going to a humid hot conditions. 499 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,199 If, if, if you don't think about it before you go, you know, some 500 00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:54,960 months, even even years before then you cannot really plan the 501 00:34:54,960 --> 00:34:57,480 right mitigation, mitigation measures. 502 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:03,400 Now we have even reengineered our courses the way we train the 503 00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:08,600 terrain and now we have a formula and a strategy to tackle 504 00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:11,440 course like Boston and and New York and any other. 505 00:35:11,440 --> 00:35:14,040 You have the Boston long run course I I remember that. 506 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,680 We've gotten a worse one now, yeah, worse than Boston. 507 00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:22,760 But it's also a challenge because you need to to to have 508 00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:26,000 the athlete after mindset because it's taxing for the 509 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,800 muscles. When you run downhill, you have 510 00:35:28,880 --> 00:35:32,160 a different experience. And the muscles, the first day 511 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:38,320 we did and I asked my medical team to give me a report the 512 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:43,200 next day in the morning and everybody was reporting up some 513 00:35:43,200 --> 00:35:48,400 abnormalities as far as the, the, the response of the muscles 514 00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:50,440 were concerned. So it's a challenge and it's 515 00:35:50,440 --> 00:35:51,760 something that you need to prepare. 516 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,360 We prepared. And of course, in the case of 517 00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:58,440 Eliot, I mean, we, we are looking at somebody else. 518 00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,000 We're looking at somebody else who has seen it all, experience 519 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:04,600 it. I mean, it's not like you have 520 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:08,000 to tell him New York is like this me, it's read about New 521 00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:09,640 York. You know, he knows what New York 522 00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:13,800 is all about. The the tans and and, and and 523 00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:16,440 the downhill and, and the no pacing. 524 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,520 All those things come together. And I think any, any city that 525 00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:26,560 it will interact with the those those things as the race 526 00:36:26,680 --> 00:36:30,240 develops. The New Yorkers, the fans here, 527 00:36:30,240 --> 00:36:32,520 I've been waiting for this moment for Elliot to finally 528 00:36:32,520 --> 00:36:34,760 race New York. And like, you know, in the past, 529 00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:36,160 when you win Berlin, you want to go back. 530 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:38,600 You want to seek those fast opportunities. 531 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:42,800 And so, you know, for you to wait this long to finally get 532 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,920 this test, like, is it exciting, you know, to see what could 533 00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:53,520 happen on Sunday? I, I see it in multiple 534 00:36:54,000 --> 00:37:00,800 perspectives. I see Eliot as a person who has 535 00:37:00,800 --> 00:37:03,840 had a lot of following in this part of the world. 536 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,720 And I see Eliot coming to, to say hello, you know, I'm here, I 537 00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:11,000 finally come to, to interact with you. 538 00:37:11,920 --> 00:37:16,880 I see Eliot just coming to speak in a, in a different language to 539 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,960 the people who have supported him in terms of sponsorship and 540 00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,480 things like this that are domiciled in, in this region of 541 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,560 the world. I, I see anyone who is going to 542 00:37:29,000 --> 00:37:35,760 speak to people who are of certain 8 categories that I'm 543 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:41,160 here to tell you this is possible that elite sports can 544 00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:43,120 be stretched for these many years. 545 00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:47,800 So I, I, I see many communication channels coming to 546 00:37:47,800 --> 00:37:51,600 different people. You know, you could be also 547 00:37:51,600 --> 00:37:57,080 talking to people like you. It's journalist that hey, 548 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:02,200 there's an evolving generation that is saying, hey, don't, 549 00:38:02,200 --> 00:38:06,600 don't, don't push us very fast out of the running lane, you 550 00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,960 know? So I, I, I see, you know, in my 551 00:38:09,960 --> 00:38:15,400 small way of seeing things that this mission here is first of 552 00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:22,080 all to say, OK, the, the running wall of marathons as a system 553 00:38:22,280 --> 00:38:25,800 that talked about 6. Now they have gone to seven and 554 00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:30,640 they're talking, they're looking at going even further than 7 all 555 00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:35,160 over the world. That when we are doing this, 556 00:38:35,280 --> 00:38:39,360 there are people who are keenly following and, and, and, and 557 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:45,400 they're enthusiastic in seeing that they tried to run even half 558 00:38:45,400 --> 00:38:47,360 of it. And that the fact that he's 559 00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:52,000 doing hit the last one is also communicating something. 560 00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:57,360 So I see it from those uncles. The outcome will be the outcome, 561 00:38:57,640 --> 00:39:01,240 but the message will have been communicated to different 562 00:39:01,240 --> 00:39:04,440 people. With the outcome, a victory 563 00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:06,760 would be amazing, right? Like everyone dreams of that. 564 00:39:06,760 --> 00:39:09,640 He's not an athlete who doesn't line up and show up if he 565 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:13,080 doesn't think he's going to win. But in general, has your 566 00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:17,760 definition of success changed with Elliot in the last couple 567 00:39:17,760 --> 00:39:19,760 of years? Or you know, how is. 568 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:21,760 How has that changed over over time? 569 00:39:23,720 --> 00:39:32,160 I, I, I think you, you know, I, when, when I was a kid, when you 570 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,760 go to school, everybody expects you to be #1 then maybe you get 571 00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:42,800 there and then you grow. Then people see you in a 572 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,520 different way. You know, what does number, what 573 00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,320 does #1 mean? What does being there mean? 574 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,520 You know, what does showing up mean? 575 00:39:53,960 --> 00:40:02,640 So I, I, I think we, I want to see Elliot coming to New York or 576 00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,640 even his participation at the level of elite sports. 577 00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:14,560 I want to see with different lens lenses if I may use the 578 00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:19,280 word that is coming to New York with a different message. 579 00:40:20,240 --> 00:40:23,280 And like when he started, you know, we want you to be the 580 00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:29,640 number one, you know, but now we are more like looking at what 581 00:40:29,640 --> 00:40:31,480 message are we getting from this guy. 582 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:39,080 So other than one shoe fits all they are saying hey you know the 583 00:40:39,080 --> 00:40:41,640 shoe can be used different seasons. 584 00:40:42,960 --> 00:40:46,960 So with the, all of these moments that are on these walls, 585 00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:48,800 right? Like those are the, the good 586 00:40:48,800 --> 00:40:50,520 days, right? Like the amazing days that 587 00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:53,560 you'll remember forever. Do you have an appreciation now 588 00:40:53,560 --> 00:40:56,560 just sort of now when you see them like plaster on photos and 589 00:40:56,560 --> 00:40:59,640 everything that it's like you have to, you never know when the 590 00:40:59,640 --> 00:41:01,600 next time is going to happen. Like this one right here, this 591 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,080 is 2/01/09. That's the fastest that he's 592 00:41:04,080 --> 00:41:07,120 gone so far that day. Maybe you're thinking next year 593 00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:09,600 we can go faster, but it hasn't happened yet. 594 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:13,000 So do you have an appreciation on those days of like these? 595 00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:18,600 This is the good old days. Oh, I I have appreciation of the 596 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,840 entire spectrum from when it started to to now. 597 00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:27,960 Yeah, because each face has its own message. 598 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,000 There's a face of development, there's a face of excellence, 599 00:41:33,400 --> 00:41:35,240 and then there's a face of transition. 600 00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,320 So. And each face cannot be compared 601 00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:40,920 to the other face because it's a continuum. 602 00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:43,400 That's the way I would want to see. 603 00:41:44,520 --> 00:41:47,440 With Elliot, he doesn't want he's not finished anytime soon. 604 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:50,040 When they if when they add 8, when they add 9 for the majors, 605 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,600 he's going to do them. And for you, I guess, like 606 00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:55,840 coaching, like, do you feel like, I mean, you can you're 607 00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,120 going to have to see faith into her transition all the way to 608 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:00,520 the marathon someday, potentially. 609 00:42:00,520 --> 00:42:04,560 Like is that exciting for you that it's like, hey, as the, as 610 00:42:04,560 --> 00:42:08,160 they continue to to go, you continue to go and at the same 611 00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:12,080 time the sport, there's no better time than now when 612 00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:13,400 everybody's getting into running. 613 00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,440 Yeah. You're like, you're like, it's 614 00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:21,320 already been 2 decades. No, no, I, I think the journey 615 00:42:21,680 --> 00:42:25,560 has been long for me personally, it's been long. 616 00:42:26,120 --> 00:42:31,560 But what, what inspires me to continue, you know, being part 617 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,800 and parcel of the, the, the journeys of many different 618 00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:38,440 athletes is, is the way they value of my services. 619 00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,960 You know, any service is as good as when it's valued. 620 00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:48,400 When the value goes away, then it comes to an end. 621 00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:55,160 I, I remember when I first came here in New York in 1984, my, my 622 00:42:55,160 --> 00:42:59,080 interest was to, to go up to the World Trade Center because it 623 00:42:59,080 --> 00:43:03,880 was an iconic thing. So being an idealistic young man 624 00:43:03,920 --> 00:43:09,960 in my 20s, it's like this is it? No, I need to go to the World 625 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:11,000 Trade Centre. And I did. 626 00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:16,840 I wanted to go to the North Pole, you know, to be as close 627 00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:22,200 as possible in those years of 188485 and I did. 628 00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:30,440 So if I look at New York now, you know, and then I see 629 00:43:30,440 --> 00:43:37,400 Burkalif, you know, compared to World Trade Centre, you know, 630 00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:40,520 the walls apart. So things evolve. 631 00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:45,880 You know, people will trip to the way I would come here in the 632 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,440 80s. They're now going to the United 633 00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:51,760 Arab Emirates to go on up those tall, tall, tall buildings. 634 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,680 I've been one of them that. You like tall buildings? 635 00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:59,160 Book booked to to go up there. So I, I stayed two days waiting 636 00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:03,160 to for my chance to go there because there's a big people, a 637 00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:04,640 big number of people are going up. 638 00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:10,600 Anyway, what I'm saying is that every season as a way of being 639 00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:16,760 valued and it reaches a time when that time moves from the 640 00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:20,920 way it moved from World Trade Center being attention of the 641 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,440 tall building to now the other places. 642 00:44:23,880 --> 00:44:26,880 So I think maybe in a few years my time will come. 643 00:44:27,160 --> 00:44:35,920 I'm looking at possibly around 2028 Los Angeles as probably the 644 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:40,880 defining moment when I would say, hey, is it time to call it 645 00:44:41,280 --> 00:44:47,200 a day or to continue with maybe one or two projects as I closed 646 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,520 to my 70th year. Wow. 647 00:44:52,480 --> 00:44:55,120 All right, so I want to I want to close this out with a a fun 648 00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:59,920 experiment All right, so you told me how you love coaching 649 00:44:59,920 --> 00:45:03,440 now in from 800 all the way to the marathon. 650 00:45:04,240 --> 00:45:09,480 So I want you to give me 3 workouts to do because I can do 651 00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:13,640 the easy runs, I can do the long runs, but three workouts for 652 00:45:13,640 --> 00:45:15,720 three events, We'll start with the mile. 653 00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:19,160 If I do these three workouts, I'll see improvement. 654 00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,440 What are the three workouts for mile improvement that you would 655 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:27,600 recommend 3. 3 workouts, one very good insurance. 656 00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:33,080 Run once in one week or 10 days. What does that look like? 657 00:45:33,080 --> 00:45:37,760 How many kilometers in in pace? I would, I would say if you go 658 00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:42,440 by time, OK, you're looking at maybe one hour and a half. 659 00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:49,480 And if you go by distance and minimum of 25 to 30 K once in 660 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:55,120 that period, 10 days and and and and and, and one week that 661 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,520 period at least once. So that's workout #1. 662 00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:04,160 OK workout #1 #2 do good quality within that one week, 10 days of 663 00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,560 some repeats of that gives you a good endurance speed of anything 664 00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:15,760 between 1000 meters to to to one mile. 665 00:46:16,920 --> 00:46:23,800 The volume would be something close to 6000 meters to 10,000 666 00:46:23,800 --> 00:46:32,040 meters and then one session of a good speed session which is in 667 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,880 volume totalling between 3000 and 5000 meters. 668 00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:44,120 But that is the speed average is if you total it, it's faster 669 00:46:44,120 --> 00:46:49,560 than the target, the speed for the the the distance you want to 670 00:46:49,560 --> 00:46:51,080 achieve. So the last one would be like 671 00:46:51,560 --> 00:46:54,480 400 meter repeats, yes? How much rest? 672 00:46:55,560 --> 00:46:58,680 2 minutes. 2 minutes rest. Yeah, you need 2 minutes because 673 00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:01,920 otherwise you would not achieve the tack at 2 minutes. 674 00:47:02,360 --> 00:47:07,600 And if if your if your PP in in a in a in one mile is. 675 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:13,960 Minus 5457. 457 then you you would need to do them around 676 00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:18,720 6465, yes. That sounds really hard. 677 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,760 Yeah, six of them. Or even up to 62 for for, for. 678 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,880 Yeah, you know, you can make it because if you do the the the 679 00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,920 the first one, well, you do the second one and then the third 680 00:47:30,920 --> 00:47:32,840 one will be easy. OK, yes. 681 00:47:33,360 --> 00:47:36,680 All right, so that's the mile 3 workouts for the mile 3 workouts 682 00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,400 for the 5K. The mile and the 5K similar, 683 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,080 almost similar. OK, so let's do 10. 684 00:47:43,080 --> 00:47:47,120 K you, you, you. Yeah, you need the 10K and up to 685 00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,160 the marathon would be another category. 686 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:52,560 OK, yes. All right, so let's do marathon 687 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:56,680 33 workers for a marathoner. Definitely one of the sessions 688 00:47:56,680 --> 00:48:00,440 you have to do closer to the distance within a period of two 689 00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:06,480 weeks, maybe 40 kilometers. Of course, all these workouts 690 00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,240 I'm mentioning, you need to have a certain fitness level. 691 00:48:10,280 --> 00:48:13,040 Yes, yes, yes. So you're now going to, I would 692 00:48:13,040 --> 00:48:18,160 call it as a coach pre competition face when you're 693 00:48:18,160 --> 00:48:22,640 almost ready, you know, maybe a few weeks, six weeks or I don't 694 00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:30,200 know, four weeks to competition minimum for endurance, 40 695 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:35,200 kilometers once in two weeks. And then for the endurance 696 00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:39,560 speed, you need to do either it depends temperance or you can do 697 00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:46,160 workouts on the track, 3005 thousand on the track, something 698 00:48:46,160 --> 00:48:49,360 closer to to the to the marathon pace. 699 00:48:50,560 --> 00:48:54,840 And then once in, you know, like you know, in a month you do 700 00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:59,920 something faster like half marathon pace or even 10K pace. 701 00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,320 For So what is the last workout that's. 702 00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,280 The last workout would be like even thousands, thousands, 703 00:49:05,280 --> 00:49:08,200 thousands is good because. Faster than half marathon pace. 704 00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:11,160 Faster than half marathon pace, then you have a good 705 00:49:11,160 --> 00:49:15,440 combination. So the marathon endurance run 706 00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:21,000 that you do once in two weeks, the the the long intervals that 707 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,960 you do either in form of fat leg or whatever that is equivalent 708 00:49:24,960 --> 00:49:27,880 to to the running of half marathon. 709 00:49:28,240 --> 00:49:33,320 And then the one running faster equivalent to your BB in 10K. 710 00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:39,400 All that wrapped together gives you a good performance in the 711 00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:44,040 mile, good performance in the 5K, and then the marathon and 712 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,400 half marathon. There we go. 713 00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:47,680 That's all I need to know and then I'm, I'm all set. 714 00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:49,920 Patrick, thank you so much for doing this. 715 00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:54,520 Enjoy your time in New York City and congratulations on just the 716 00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:57,360 general excellence that you've brought with you so many of 717 00:49:57,360 --> 00:49:59,440 these athletes and so many of these great moments, you know, 718 00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,960 with the NN Running team. Thank you very much and I hope 719 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,840 whoever is going to listen will learn something and we'll 720 00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:12,040 continue sharing this business of a beautiful sport.