1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:02,920 What's up everyone? You are listening to the CDs 2 00:00:02,920 --> 00:00:05,120 Magic Podcast. I'm your host Chris Chavez, and 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:07,480 every week we go beyond the results to bring you 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,480 conversations with the biggest names on the track, the roads, 5 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:12,760 and behind the scenes. From world class athletes and 6 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,280 coaches to innovators shaping the sport. 7 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,520 If it's happening on the track, we're covering it with real 8 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:21,560 insights that sharpen minds, deep dives into the moments that 9 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:25,360 define careers, and the kind of access to the pros you won't get 10 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:28,360 anywhere else. So let's get into it, because we 11 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:33,080 love track and field. Before we get to today's 12 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:35,960 episode, you know we love giving our listeners a shout out when 13 00:00:35,960 --> 00:00:37,880 they leave us a review on Apple Podcasts. 14 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,840 That certainly helps the show's discoverability, and we 15 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:44,080 appreciate it greatly. This week's review comes to us 16 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:48,360 from CJ Young and I really got to find out if Clayton's middle 17 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,720 name starts with AJ and that this might be him. 18 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:55,880 He writes in saying 10 out of 10 no notes. 19 00:00:56,160 --> 00:00:59,160 No one covers the insurance and outs of the running world better 20 00:00:59,160 --> 00:01:01,640 than Conor Mance and his Co host Chris Chavez. 21 00:01:01,840 --> 00:01:05,880 Hilarious review and I got to do some sleuthing to figure out if 22 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:08,760 this was actually Clayton Young. If you want your review to be 23 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:12,240 read and you want to support the show, leave us a Five Star View 24 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:18,280 on Apple podcast today. My guest for today's episode is 25 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,240 Laura Thwee, the former professional marathoner who has 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:24,280 now stepped into an assistant coach role and is helping 27 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,760 oversee the Rhodes team with the On Athletics Club. 28 00:01:27,120 --> 00:01:30,560 For 13 years, Laura was a steady coaching presence for high 29 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:33,640 school runners in Boulder, and now she's made the jump to guide 30 00:01:33,640 --> 00:01:37,120 the likes of 2025 New York City Marathon champion Helen O'berry 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:39,240 and has also helped Joe Collector navigate the 32 00:01:39,240 --> 00:01:41,880 transition from the track to 26.2. 33 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,440 Laura, someone who understands the emotional and psychological 34 00:01:45,440 --> 00:01:48,560 side of performance. The OAC has seen quite a bit of 35 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:52,600 success in its first five years as a team, and as the sport is 36 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:57,000 in one of the most competitive eras ever, Laura is now the 37 00:01:57,000 --> 00:01:59,960 connective tissue between the original core of the team and 38 00:01:59,960 --> 00:02:02,600 the next generation stepping onto the roads. 39 00:02:02,800 --> 00:02:05,320 She talks about how she's built that trust with the athletes, 40 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,240 fostered the culture, and developed her own coaching 41 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,280 philosophy and style. So without further ado, here is 42 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:24,440 Laura Thwitt. All right, Laura, welcome to the 43 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:26,840 CSMAC podcast. And I think it's fun because I 44 00:02:26,840 --> 00:02:29,560 guess you've got your own podcasting chops, so you're used 45 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:33,440 to knowing how all of this goes. But how are you doing? 46 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:37,320 I guess post New York City Marathon and post like big 47 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,440 weekend for the On Athletics Club. 48 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:42,360 Yeah, no thanks, Chris. I'm excited to be here. 49 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,360 I've always been a fan of the Sidious mag, all that you guys 50 00:02:46,360 --> 00:02:49,680 do, so it's really fun for me to like finally get to come on the 51 00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,480 show. But yeah, things have been good. 52 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,200 Unlike you, I have taken a little bit of a breather. 53 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:59,400 I took like 5 days off after the big New York weekend and just 54 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:03,160 kind of like regrouped and soaked it all in and now we're 55 00:03:03,160 --> 00:03:05,800 back at it. So yeah, it's like all kind of a 56 00:03:05,800 --> 00:03:08,800 whirlwind, but very fun time of year for sure. 57 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,680 So you've obviously, you know, had over a decade plus of, you 58 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:14,360 know, your own sort of professional running and we'll 59 00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:17,240 talk about a little bit about just kind of closing the chapter 60 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:18,640 on that before diving into coaching. 61 00:03:18,640 --> 00:03:22,880 But for, you know, these fall majors over the last couple 62 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:27,960 months, like, is it a different kind of emotion that goes into 63 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,600 and stress that goes into those weekends from the coaching side 64 00:03:30,600 --> 00:03:32,920 of things versus like when you were an athlete, you know, 65 00:03:32,920 --> 00:03:34,880 getting ready for them? It's different. 66 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:36,160 It's the same, but it's different. 67 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:39,360 And I think what I learned having this been like my first 68 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:44,240 kind of six months of being on the other side and being at all 69 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:47,520 the majors that I love to go to as an athlete and really having 70 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,400 the understanding of how things work on that side of things. 71 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:53,160 But now being on the other side of things, it's a different 72 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:56,360 stress because you're suddenly the one that's doing all the 73 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:59,520 thinking and you're doing all the preparation and you're there 74 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,760 to make sure that, you know, you're trying to control as much 75 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:05,800 as you can control for them. So all they have to focus on is 76 00:04:05,800 --> 00:04:08,520 running. And that's always what I did as 77 00:04:08,520 --> 00:04:10,480 an athlete, obviously. And so now being on the other 78 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,320 side, you're like, wow, I'm in charge of all of these things, 79 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:15,920 making sure everything's taken care of, all the bases are 80 00:04:15,920 --> 00:04:19,399 covered. And then on race day, the gun 81 00:04:19,399 --> 00:04:21,120 goes off and you don't have that control. 82 00:04:21,120 --> 00:04:23,680 That's normally like as an athlete, I would always find 83 00:04:23,680 --> 00:04:26,240 like the gun would go off and like, you're finally at peace, 84 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:28,160 right? Like all the nerves and the 85 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,800 build up to like a big major, especially the week of there's 86 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,840 all this stuff to do. Like all you want to do is get 87 00:04:32,840 --> 00:04:35,280 to the start line and then as soon as the gun goes off, you're 88 00:04:35,280 --> 00:04:37,920 like, OK, I know what to do now. Like I'm ready. 89 00:04:38,160 --> 00:04:40,160 But now as a coach you're like, Oh my God. 90 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:42,320 It's like now they're real stress vegans because now all 91 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:45,920 you can do is watch for the next like 2 plus hours and you're 92 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:47,680 just like, I have no control anymore. 93 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,600 Like, you know, hopefully we've prepared them and they know what 94 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,240 to do and it's going to be fine. But yeah, it's just like a 95 00:04:53,240 --> 00:04:56,120 different set of nerves for sure, watching as opposed to 96 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,600 being out there yourself. Yeah, you're like, I can't do 97 00:04:58,600 --> 00:05:01,400 anything for that side stitch or that cramp, you know, through 98 00:05:01,400 --> 00:05:02,880 this. You know, like if they use the 99 00:05:02,880 --> 00:05:06,720 bottle or like, you know, I did all of Helen's bottle for New 100 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,720 York. So like, every time she got one. 101 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,880 And then at one point it looks like she was like, kind of like 102 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,240 throwing up a little bit and you're just like, Oh my God, I 103 00:05:15,240 --> 00:05:17,800 was the one that did these. Like, this is my like, you just 104 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:19,600 get so stressed. There's like nothing you can do. 105 00:05:20,600 --> 00:05:22,800 But yeah, it's, it's fun. It's all part of it. 106 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:24,320 It's just a little bit different now. 107 00:05:24,920 --> 00:05:27,040 All right, so let's get into just sort of like the decision 108 00:05:27,040 --> 00:05:30,280 to, you know, put your own professional running career off 109 00:05:30,280 --> 00:05:33,160 to the side and then I guess what do you feel like called you 110 00:05:33,160 --> 00:05:36,120 to make this dive into coaching in the professional ranks? 111 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,960 Yeah. So I wrapped up my own career at 112 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:42,440 the end of last year. I kind of got to a point where, 113 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:45,280 you know, as we all do as athletes, where you're at this 114 00:05:45,280 --> 00:05:49,320 crossroads of, you know, am I ready to step into a new 115 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,320 chapter? Do I feel like I gave everything 116 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:53,440 I could give to this part of my career? 117 00:05:53,440 --> 00:05:56,640 And I truly was starting to feel more and more like that was the 118 00:05:56,640 --> 00:06:00,320 case. And so it's terrifying though, 119 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:02,280 'cause they're like, well, what do I do? 120 00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:04,680 Like I've been an athlete for 13 plus years. 121 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,280 I have no other skills. You know that you just slowly 122 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,640 start second guessing yourself and how to transition into the 123 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,320 real world, so to speak. But throughout my professional 124 00:06:14,320 --> 00:06:18,240 career, I was coaching at the high school level and I really, 125 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:22,120 really enjoyed that. And so when I decided that I was 126 00:06:22,120 --> 00:06:24,880 kind of ready to start looking at what was next, I was like, I 127 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,320 would love to coach, but you know, it's hard figuring out 128 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:32,480 where those opportunities are. I was thinking NCAA kind of like 129 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,360 that next step and figuring out where I could kind of crack a 130 00:06:36,360 --> 00:06:39,040 door and, and just get some experience and start kind of 131 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,920 feeling that that out. And so I was applying for other 132 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:46,920 jobs, kind of figuring out the resume and just, you know, all 133 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:50,440 of all of that stuff that you're not fully or I wasn't fully 134 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,680 prepared for. And I put a thing out on 135 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,440 Instagram that was basically kind of like I'm transitioning. 136 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:56,640 I don't know what that looks like. 137 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,000 I don't know what that looks like for my running, but I know 138 00:06:59,000 --> 00:07:02,240 I'm ready to kind of build myself into this next chapter. 139 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:06,440 And like a couple hours after I posted that, I think it was like 140 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:10,520 that night Dathan texted me and he was like, hey, you're 141 00:07:10,520 --> 00:07:11,840 transitioning. What does that mean? 142 00:07:11,840 --> 00:07:15,080 And I was like, I don't know, you got trying to figure that 143 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:18,240 out, but I think I'm kind of trying to, I think I'm ready for 144 00:07:18,240 --> 00:07:20,520 whatever is next. And I just don't know what that 145 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:22,600 looks like yet. And he was like, well, there's, 146 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:25,680 you know, a potential opportunity for you to step in 147 00:07:25,680 --> 00:07:27,520 with OAC. Do you want to chat more about 148 00:07:27,520 --> 00:07:29,480 it? So that's kind of how all of 149 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:33,400 that transpired. That was in February, and then I 150 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:37,160 started March 1. So it was just kind of like it 151 00:07:37,160 --> 00:07:39,960 happened quickly. And I was incredibly grateful 152 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:42,160 'cause I mean, that's the thing, especially with the coaching 153 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:47,480 piece in our sport, so much of it is needing people to give you 154 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:52,080 the opportunity to step in and get that experience and and kind 155 00:07:52,080 --> 00:07:54,320 of lean into that. And so I was so incredibly 156 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:59,000 grateful to Dathan and Kelsey for cracking that door and 157 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:02,000 presenting the opportunity for me to jump in with some of the 158 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,200 best athletes in the world. So it was pretty crazy. 159 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,920 Yeah. Was that a little daunting at 160 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,400 first because I'm trying to think of like another sports 161 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:11,600 sort of like equivalent, right where it's like you look at the 162 00:08:11,600 --> 00:08:14,680 resume and it's like the extent of coaching experience. 163 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:17,200 Like I, I do think in like baseball, sometimes there's like 164 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,280 player retires and if you know, they were around for a long 165 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,720 time, they can easily step into just sort of like a managerial 166 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:27,520 or bench coach role. And so then it's like a decade 167 00:08:27,520 --> 00:08:29,080 of coaching at the high school level. 168 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:33,760 But then this is taking on Helen O'berry and some of the best in 169 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:36,320 the world. So was that daunting at first? 170 00:08:36,960 --> 00:08:41,120 Yes, I was incredibly intimidated to step in to the 171 00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:45,160 OAC realm. Obviously I knew who a lot of 172 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:49,880 the athletes were not well, but you know, as I had overlap with 173 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:52,840 a few of them, Helen included, like at the end of my career 174 00:08:53,400 --> 00:08:57,040 being in Boulder, like you know who they are and then having 175 00:08:57,040 --> 00:08:59,760 like kind of the CU connection with some of them, like Joe and 176 00:08:59,760 --> 00:09:03,320 Sage and you know, like we all kind of sort of overlapped, but 177 00:09:03,320 --> 00:09:06,880 like I didn't know them. And then you're coming into this 178 00:09:07,080 --> 00:09:13,080 well oiled machine that is OAC and like your change, you know, 179 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,400 like I'm this new person, you know, like they're Dathan had 180 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:20,160 said had told them that they were going to hire me to kind of 181 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,040 help build out the roadside of the team. 182 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:24,920 And that would primarily be like where I was going to be focused. 183 00:09:25,240 --> 00:09:29,080 But when I first started outside of Helen and Joe is obviously 184 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,280 early in his transition to the roads or wasn't really much of A 185 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:33,800 Rd. team. So you're just kind of jumping 186 00:09:33,800 --> 00:09:37,640 on, jumping in on the trackside. And it was very intimidating 187 00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:42,680 because I think for me as a like when I was trying to figure out 188 00:09:42,680 --> 00:09:47,560 what my goals were as a coach and as a coach at this level, 189 00:09:47,560 --> 00:09:51,680 working with these athletes and kind of just coming in, I really 190 00:09:51,680 --> 00:09:55,000 wanted to focus on the relationships and how I took 191 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:59,240 time to build each of those out with each athlete, knowing that 192 00:09:59,240 --> 00:10:01,120 with everyone that was going to look different. 193 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,080 But you don't want to come in super hot. 194 00:10:03,080 --> 00:10:06,720 You know, you kind of want to just like give them the time and 195 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:10,320 space to kind of like feel you out and kind of slowly get 196 00:10:10,320 --> 00:10:12,000 comfortable with you being there. 197 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:14,840 So it's kind of just like a whole like the first couple 198 00:10:14,840 --> 00:10:18,200 months was just trying to find my feet not only on that side of 199 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:21,120 things, but then you're also trying to figure out your own. 200 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,760 Like I was trying to figure out kind of how to get my own 201 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,000 confidence being, you know, I was, I felt like I was really 202 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,160 dialed into who I was in his as an athlete. 203 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:31,880 But now you're on the other side and you're kind of trying to 204 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,480 figure out like, how do you translate that experience that 205 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,920 you do have in this whole new kind of realm? 206 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:42,120 And it was, yeah, it took me a while to kind of like get my 207 00:10:42,120 --> 00:10:46,080 confidence and find my feet as far as being comfortable on this 208 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:49,120 side with this team. So it was definitely like, I 209 00:10:49,120 --> 00:10:51,800 definitely, it was a big learning phase. 210 00:10:51,800 --> 00:10:55,480 And I feel like I'm still kind of in that, but feeling much 211 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:58,040 more kind of settled in now that we're at towards the end of the 212 00:10:58,040 --> 00:11:00,440 year. And it's been an incredible 213 00:11:00,440 --> 00:11:03,160 couple months for sure. How do you think you did with 214 00:11:03,160 --> 00:11:05,880 developing like your own coaching style, like the at the 215 00:11:05,880 --> 00:11:08,440 high school level? Because I'm sure like that's a 216 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,600 bit more less pressure. It's right. 217 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:14,480 The parents are mostly like the people who have that just 218 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:17,080 automatic confidence in you being a professional runner. 219 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:18,960 It's like all right. So I think that they know what 220 00:11:18,960 --> 00:11:22,080 they're doing. And I think the cool part in 221 00:11:22,080 --> 00:11:24,600 just sort of like hearing how long you were doing it too, is 222 00:11:24,600 --> 00:11:28,040 that, you know, you you did this for, you know, over 10 years 223 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,600 that you probably had multiple like graduating classes where 224 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,400 you saw athletes from like freshman year all the way 225 00:11:34,400 --> 00:11:38,000 through, you know, graduation. And, you know, just mentoring 226 00:11:38,360 --> 00:11:42,040 people so young and at that level of their development must 227 00:11:42,040 --> 00:11:44,800 have been rewarding. Yeah, it was, I mean, coaching 228 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:47,560 at the high school level was incredibly special because 229 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:51,040 that's where I fell in love with the sport was, you know, finally 230 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,080 finding high school cross country and like really figuring 231 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:56,840 out like, oh, this is something I love. 232 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:59,320 And it's something that like I'm good at, you know, and just like 233 00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:02,400 growing in the sport. And so getting to be a part of 234 00:12:02,400 --> 00:12:05,760 that for the this next generation coming up and helping 235 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,240 them find their own love and relationship in the sport, 236 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:12,160 whatever that looks like. For some, you know, I had quite 237 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,840 a few that went on to the collegiate level and even went, 238 00:12:15,120 --> 00:12:18,400 you know, farther than that. And then I had some, you know, 239 00:12:18,400 --> 00:12:23,160 that didn't continue running on teams or didn't continue at the 240 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,120 collegiate level. But like a lot of them I've 241 00:12:25,120 --> 00:12:27,840 stayed in touch with and a lot of them are like, hey, I just 242 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,920 ran my first marathon or I just ran my first half marathon, or 243 00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:32,920 I'm doing this 10K. And so it's been really cool to 244 00:12:32,920 --> 00:12:37,240 see them just figure out their love for running and then do 245 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,480 whatever they want to do with that once they leave the high 246 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,960 school atmosphere. And I also just kind of wanted 247 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:48,360 to be that person at that level that I didn't necessarily have 248 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:51,920 when I was in high school, especially as like a a female. 249 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:56,280 And so I think that was really special to also kind of get to 250 00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,480 fill those shoes that like, I would have loved to have had 251 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:03,600 someone in my position like kind of mentoring me through that 252 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,000 part of my early career. So hoping that I was able to do 253 00:13:07,000 --> 00:13:09,360 that to some extent with these young kids was like really, 254 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:12,880 really cool. And so when I jumped up to this 255 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:16,000 next level, it's obviously different, but like the 256 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,280 foundation and like the fundamentals of kind of who I 257 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:24,360 really wanted to be as a coach and why I wanted to continue 258 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,240 coaching and why I feel like there's such a need, especially 259 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,200 for women to be on this side of the sport. 260 00:13:30,440 --> 00:13:33,360 I carried that into OAC. And it's just different because 261 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,840 you're working at working with athletes who are the best of the 262 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:39,760 best and, you know, have a high school career under them, have a 263 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,400 collegiate career under them. And like, you know, and then now 264 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:45,400 we're either well into their pro careers or just beginning that 265 00:13:45,400 --> 00:13:48,160 pro career. So again, that's where you take 266 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:50,880 your own experience of remembering what all those 267 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:54,360 stages were like for you and kind of figuring out how to 268 00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,560 build those relationships with these athletes and then use your 269 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,520 experience that you have. But I think the high school 270 00:14:00,520 --> 00:14:04,440 scene really prepared me as far as like I, I knew coming in and 271 00:14:04,440 --> 00:14:06,280 I told Dathan this in my interview with him. 272 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:09,000 Like this is the kind of coach that I want to be. 273 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:10,800 And This is why I want to get into coaching. 274 00:14:10,800 --> 00:14:13,520 And I'm really hopeful to find an opportunity where I can do 275 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:16,880 that. So when you say kind of like 276 00:14:16,960 --> 00:14:20,080 wanting to be, you know, the coach and and filling some of 277 00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,920 these gaps that you felt like were were there maybe like in 278 00:14:22,920 --> 00:14:25,920 your early development, I guess how would you assess just sort 279 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:31,080 of it is still predominantly a male heavy industry on the 280 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,480 coaching front. And I guess, you know, on the 281 00:14:34,480 --> 00:14:37,360 NCAA side, you know, you we have seen just tremendous success 282 00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:41,160 from Lori Hennis and from Dilji Taylor, But Even so, still just 283 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:44,040 kind of in the professional ranks, it's it's still lacking. 284 00:14:44,040 --> 00:14:47,640 And so you know what in these, you know, let it's been less 285 00:14:47,640 --> 00:14:51,440 than a year, but with Kelsey and Dathan, I guess like how do you 286 00:14:51,440 --> 00:14:55,040 sort of assess your sort of like the change you you're hoping to 287 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,720 bring about like within just kind of this gap of female 288 00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:00,120 coaches in the professional ranks? 289 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:02,520 Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. 290 00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:06,560 I, you know, I was really cool too, like when I, when I came on 291 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,200 getting to work with Kelsey because, you know, she was a 292 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,960 really great support as far as just like sharing her 293 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,360 experience, like obviously at the collegiate level. 294 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:18,640 And then she came into OAC and she was just like, yeah, there's 295 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:20,400 things that are, are challenging. 296 00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:25,080 And, you know, I think as women, sometimes we struggle in these 297 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,800 positions because you're hesitant to really have that 298 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,360 strong, like presents or that strong those strong opinions or 299 00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:36,560 like that. Like, I don't know if like 300 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:38,880 monster ego is the right word. But like, I don't know. 301 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:41,600 It's just like sometimes you doubt yourself and your own 302 00:15:41,600 --> 00:15:45,040 experience. And so she was really helpful in 303 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,000 just helping me find that confidence early of like, coming 304 00:15:48,000 --> 00:15:49,680 in. Like, you know, it's OK to like, 305 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,960 demand that respect and to like be assertive and to really 306 00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:55,800 remember why you are here and that you have all this 307 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,800 experience to bring to the table that can really help all of 308 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:02,680 these athletes, regardless of what their events are or kind of 309 00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,320 like where their journey is in their own careers. 310 00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:08,440 And I think sometimes, I guess I'm speaking more of just my own 311 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,640 experience. Like as a woman, I have 312 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,800 struggled and finding that confidence and really finding my 313 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:17,080 voice because you have this fear of like, oh, am I coming off too 314 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:18,880 arrogant or am I coming off cocky? 315 00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:23,000 Or you're almost afraid to really be proud of what you have 316 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:26,240 accomplished. And then in doing that comes 317 00:16:26,240 --> 00:16:28,920 like, this is where my experience come from comes from. 318 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,000 And then coming into OAC where you're working with like the 319 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,920 Helen O'berry's or the Joe Collectors or people that you 320 00:16:34,920 --> 00:16:37,240 know are already some of the best in the world. 321 00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,040 And you're just like, what can I, what do I have to offer these 322 00:16:40,040 --> 00:16:42,200 people? Like they are seemingly doing 323 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,840 fine, like without whatever it is that I'm supposed to like, 324 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:47,600 bring to the table. So again, that's where it was 325 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,640 really nice having someone like Kelsey who like had her own 326 00:16:50,640 --> 00:16:54,800 journey as she came into OAC and like building relationships and 327 00:16:54,800 --> 00:16:59,240 finding her confidence and voice to balance out Dathan and really 328 00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:01,720 like having learned his philosophy in the structure. 329 00:17:01,720 --> 00:17:05,640 So having someone like that that I could really relate to and 330 00:17:05,640 --> 00:17:09,000 kind of see my own journey in was really helpful for me. 331 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:11,599 And so I think that's what we need more of is it's like we're 332 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,200 starting to see that. But I think like with anything, 333 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,440 no matter who you are, when you feel represented and you see 334 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,800 people that you can really relate to as far as your journey 335 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:26,800 and your experience doing these things, that's where you find 336 00:17:26,800 --> 00:17:29,240 that confidence. And then again, it comes back to 337 00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,280 just needing the opportunity to really like lean into that. 338 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,440 So yeah, it's definitely been interesting kind of figuring all 339 00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:38,280 of that out. But I think that's been my 340 00:17:38,280 --> 00:17:42,040 biggest thing is just remembering, OK, I'm not Dathan, 341 00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:44,720 I'm not Kelsey, but like, that's why I was hired is like the 342 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:47,600 three of us all have very different experiences. 343 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:49,760 We bring different things to the table. 344 00:17:49,920 --> 00:17:52,960 And you're just hoping to help these athletes, kind of give 345 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,080 them that well roundedness in support and resources. 346 00:17:57,720 --> 00:17:59,800 They all have different relationships with us. 347 00:17:59,800 --> 00:18:01,640 We have different relationships with them. 348 00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:04,920 And I just think that's the really part of what OAC is doing 349 00:18:05,720 --> 00:18:08,920 is we're just all trying to help these, this next wave of 350 00:18:09,080 --> 00:18:12,800 incredible athletes maximize what they're capable of. 351 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:16,120 And it's OK that we all kind of do that differently. 352 00:18:16,120 --> 00:18:18,400 And so I think initially I was like, well, I have to be like 353 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:19,960 Dathan or I have to do it like Kelsey. 354 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:21,840 And then it was like, no, like, do it like you. 355 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:26,080 Like just do it like you. And I as I kind of went, I 356 00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:27,920 started to figure out what that looks like. 357 00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,440 This episode of the Cities Mac Podcast is presented by 358 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:37,440 Lollipop. Fall has finally shown up. 359 00:18:37,960 --> 00:18:41,080 The air is a little sharper. The light turns gold. 360 00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:44,080 Yeah, it's that time of year again. 361 00:18:45,120 --> 00:18:48,600 Last year I was told that my ad read for Lollipop Crisp Apple 362 00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,600 was weirdly sensual. I'll take it, because honestly, 363 00:18:54,080 --> 00:18:56,560 this flavor deserves it. And guess what? 364 00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,800 It's back for good this time. Crisp apple. 365 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,560 It's like sparkling apple juice meets those gummy apple rings 366 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:07,920 from your childhood. Sweet, fizzy, comforting. 367 00:19:08,840 --> 00:19:13,960 Kind of like nostalgia in a can. 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Lollipop, the Runner Soda. 386 00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,800 Yeah, I always like hearing just sort of like the blend that you 387 00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:36,360 can also bring from the coaching influences that were in your own 388 00:20:36,360 --> 00:20:39,440 professional career. Like, you know, I'm sure Dathan 389 00:20:39,440 --> 00:20:43,200 there's elements to his training that are pulled from Brad 390 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:46,440 Hudson, Alberto, the the Hansen's. 391 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:50,600 And so for you, I guess when you came into it and I guess like 392 00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:53,120 now working with professionals like where have you pulled, you 393 00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:56,200 know, I guess some of this inspiration from where or 394 00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:59,200 philosophy from because you have been able to work with a variety 395 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:01,680 of different coaches. Yeah, I think that's that was 396 00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:04,800 like the cool thing, especially working with Joe, is just 397 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:09,000 falling back on my own transition from like the track 398 00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:14,360 to the roads and figuring out and navigating the differences 399 00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:17,280 there. And so, yeah, like I, you know, 400 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,360 I worked with several different coaches over the course of my 401 00:21:21,360 --> 00:21:23,480 career, and I felt really lucky to do that. 402 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,720 And I felt like I learned something from each of those 403 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,400 coaches. Like some of them, I really 404 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:33,000 liked the training that we did. Others, I really felt secure in 405 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:36,080 that, like emotional relationship and that connection 406 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:39,080 as far as that support that I really always kind of needed as 407 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:42,360 an athlete to draw from. And so, yeah, you're kind of 408 00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,880 using your own experience with things that worked for you, 409 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:50,960 things that maybe didn't or just like using that experience to 410 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:56,600 kind of help athletes like navigate at that point in their 411 00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,280 own career. So it's been helpful to have all 412 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,440 of those different things to kind of draw from, but at the 413 00:22:01,440 --> 00:22:03,960 same time, you're drawing from that, but you're also learning 414 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,360 the structure and philosophy that Dathan has created at OAC 415 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:11,880 and kind of blending that into that overarching structure. 416 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:16,800 But like, I think for me being like this first six months, I 417 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,640 think the biggest thing that I could bring to help like Joe and 418 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:24,560 Helen was just like, especially Joe, like as he was debuting and 419 00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,040 diving into the marathon, which is so different than the track. 420 00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,560 It's just that psychological piece of like, it's OK that it 421 00:22:31,560 --> 00:22:33,480 feels this way. Like workouts are going to feel 422 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:34,840 this way. You're going to be tired. 423 00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:36,640 You're not going to come up for the big sessions. 424 00:22:36,840 --> 00:22:39,640 You're going to have question marks of like, where am I at? 425 00:22:39,640 --> 00:22:42,600 Why do I feel like shit, like nothing, Like it's just so 426 00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:45,840 different than the track. And so I think being able to 427 00:22:46,640 --> 00:22:52,280 help on that side of things, it's kind of where I really drew 428 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,240 from this time around as opposed to like training, because they 429 00:22:55,240 --> 00:22:59,240 have that training structure and that philosophy that like Dathan 430 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,800 has implemented. So it's like you're helping them 431 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:05,000 really trust that process and really buy into what they're 432 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,080 doing. And then I think for like Helen, 433 00:23:07,080 --> 00:23:10,000 it's just giving her that constant day-to-day support, 434 00:23:10,000 --> 00:23:13,000 being out there on the bike doing warm ups and cooldowns 435 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,920 with her, like she's, you know, does so much, so many things 436 00:23:15,920 --> 00:23:19,320 solo that you're just giving her that emotional support. 437 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:22,360 And so she's not having to do these monster sessions or these 438 00:23:22,360 --> 00:23:26,120 big days or long recovery days or lifting by herself like 439 00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:28,760 you're giving her that emotional piece. 440 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:32,200 So I drew on things that I always felt like I needed as an 441 00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:35,080 athlete. And I just tried to kind of 442 00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:39,160 start with Helen and Joe and like really kind of build that 443 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:40,400 in. And I think that helped me 444 00:23:40,400 --> 00:23:46,520 figure out more of kind of like what I'm hoping to bring to the 445 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,080 table as far as like this new coaching adventure that I'm on. 446 00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:52,440 So. I guess, like one of the most 447 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,040 interesting cases is, I guess working with Joe through this 448 00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,240 transition to the marathon, you know, because so many people, 449 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:00,560 right? And I and I did a whole, you 450 00:24:00,920 --> 00:24:03,520 know, interview with him where we kind of just opened up about 451 00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,200 just how public, you know, this learning curve has been for him. 452 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,000 And there have been, you know, rough patches along the way. 453 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:13,680 What do you think, You know, now that we've, you know, he's got 454 00:24:13,680 --> 00:24:18,120 one under the belt and you saw a lot of the process through. 455 00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:20,640 What do you think is like one of the biggest misconceptions 456 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:24,760 people may have about athletes making that transition from the 457 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:27,680 track to the roads? Because the assumption right is, 458 00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:32,800 hey, killer 10,000 meter runner on the track and he has a great 459 00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:36,040 aerobic engine that's going to be great for the marathon. 460 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,280 But it's, you know, as we saw, it's not as linear as as that 461 00:24:41,280 --> 00:24:44,600 equation feels like it could be. I think that was something that 462 00:24:44,600 --> 00:24:49,040 I was really hoping to help Joe navigate was he's carrying this 463 00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:51,440 immense amount of pressure and expectation. 464 00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:56,080 And with that, sometimes you feel like there's no time to 465 00:24:56,080 --> 00:25:00,480 actually get to be patient and learn this completely different 466 00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,720 side of the sport. Like you're expected to just 467 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:06,640 step in, nail everything. And if you don't do that, people 468 00:25:06,640 --> 00:25:09,120 are like, oh, I guess like, you know, he's not going to be as 469 00:25:09,120 --> 00:25:11,960 good or whatever the case is. And so I think that was really 470 00:25:11,960 --> 00:25:15,000 challenging for Joe, especially, you know, like he ran phenomenal 471 00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:19,240 in Houston, but I feel like the bar was set so high that, you 472 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:25,320 know, sometimes I think I think after that performance, even Joe 473 00:25:25,320 --> 00:25:28,320 kind of like for a little bit like questioned whether that was 474 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:30,440 good or not. You know, just like again with 475 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:33,320 what was expected of him. And then, you know, he jumped 476 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,160 into the 10 case. He did the 10 mile championships 477 00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,360 and was just kind of learning the roads and I feel like every 478 00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:43,560 race he did, you could see him get like gaining more 479 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,960 confidence. You could see him learning, 480 00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:50,480 understanding that there is a growing curve here, that he does 481 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:54,600 just need more experience, that obviously there's things that 482 00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,080 overlap from the track and him being at the highest level on 483 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:00,440 that part of the sport that he can bring to the roads. 484 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,560 But like learning the roads, racing on the roads, training on 485 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:05,240 the roads, it's very, very different. 486 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,920 Even if the distances early in the year for him were the same. 487 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:14,200 It's just there is it's it's sometimes not as seamless as 488 00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:17,200 people think it's going to be. And so I think helping him 489 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,920 navigate that and encouraging him to just continue to be 490 00:26:20,920 --> 00:26:23,160 patient and to and to find the wins. 491 00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:26,200 You learn something after every single race that you do and then 492 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,920 you put it towards the next one. And then the other thing with 493 00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:31,400 Joe is people I feel like also forgot he's. 494 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:33,760 He was a. Monster injury, he was injured 495 00:26:33,760 --> 00:26:37,480 for like a year like he's coming off, you know, I had something 496 00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,480 similar myself as an athlete that took me out for over a 497 00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,520 year. And so he's coming off this 498 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:46,080 monster injury that already rattles your confidence because 499 00:26:46,080 --> 00:26:49,040 it it's this huge disruption that you're not used to having. 500 00:26:49,040 --> 00:26:52,360 And so you've had this huge disruption, you're coming off of 501 00:26:52,360 --> 00:26:54,880 it, you're finally getting your body back, you're finally 502 00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:57,240 healthy. And then boom, you dive into 503 00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,520 like the roads, a completely different side of things, which 504 00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:03,480 I think was the right timing. And I think that was the right 505 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,640 way to approach it and to kind of make that shift 100%. 506 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:08,400 But it doesn't mean that it's not hard. 507 00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:10,240 And that doesn't come with its challenges. 508 00:27:10,440 --> 00:27:13,840 But after watching Joe race the 25 K, which I felt like was one 509 00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,080 of his best races, I was just like the longer he goes the 510 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,360 better he is going to be. He just needs a little bit more 511 00:27:20,360 --> 00:27:23,040 time to get there. And so it was really cool 512 00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:26,920 because after the 10 mile he did the TC-10 like a month from New 513 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,160 York. He came back from that and he 514 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,480 was just like, I finally just felt confident again. 515 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,520 Like I felt like myself. I felt like I could push. 516 00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:39,440 I felt like I could make these moves, you know, I really just 517 00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:41,440 like the pieces were fully coming together. 518 00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:45,880 And so it was really cool to like see him in that light after 519 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,080 the journey it had been in, like the summer of him kind of trying 520 00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:52,120 to still figure all of this out while also still building that 521 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,320 consistency back from that disruption he had with his 522 00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:57,520 injury. So I don't know, it was really 523 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:01,600 special for me to get to be a part of that with Joe again. 524 00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,960 And like so much of that in my own way, I felt like if 525 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,080 anything, I could just bring that relatability and just help 526 00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:12,600 him psychologically navigate everything he was going through 527 00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,040 because it was such a monster year of change. 528 00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,240 Like change. It's so hard as an athlete, and 529 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,600 especially when it's coming at you so quickly. 530 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,120 And then you have the whole world watching and bringing in 531 00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:25,560 their own opinions and expectations of what you should 532 00:28:25,560 --> 00:28:27,840 be doing, how you should be racing, where you should be 533 00:28:27,840 --> 00:28:30,440 finishing while you're still trying to figure all that out 534 00:28:30,440 --> 00:28:32,880 yourself. So I was really proud of him and 535 00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:35,760 it was just one of the one of the components that made New 536 00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:39,320 York so special and, like, very emotional for me. 537 00:28:40,160 --> 00:28:42,920 So yeah. And then the other part of it, 538 00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:46,760 too is just, you know, how much of the marathon itself? 539 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,480 Because, I mean, you had a strong career running it over a 540 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,200 long span of time, but even if we go back 10 years, it's like 541 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,880 the marathon was a different sport back then, Different. 542 00:28:57,120 --> 00:28:59,760 Yeah, a different beast. It's totally different now. 543 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,680 And I feel like that's another side of just diving into 544 00:29:03,680 --> 00:29:06,400 coaching at this level. It's just you have to. 545 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:10,840 The fun part also gets to be that you have to stay up on what 546 00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:14,360 are the latest trends, like where are people looking to make 547 00:29:14,360 --> 00:29:18,560 these 1% marginal gains? And whether it's tinkering with 548 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:23,160 fueling or on testing these new prototypes or whatever it might 549 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,200 be. Like you as a coach or the 550 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:29,360 person who you know helps along with Nathan and Kelsey, make the 551 00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,560 decision of like, what's working, what's not working. 552 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:34,600 And I feel like that kind of makes it also feel like, yes, 553 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:36,480 you had your own experiences, but this is a different sport 554 00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:38,160 still. It's a different sport. 555 00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:40,680 And so that's the other thing is it's just like where we are now, 556 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:44,480 especially on the marathon side of things, is so very different 557 00:29:44,480 --> 00:29:48,280 from where it was when I was first coming in to the marathon. 558 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:51,160 And even like the last couple years of my career, I was like, 559 00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,480 it is it's so different because again, like you can only train 560 00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,120 so much. You can only like tweak 561 00:29:57,120 --> 00:29:59,240 training. You can only add so much volume, 562 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:00,880 you can only do so much intensity. 563 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,560 But it's just like the sports just getting faster and faster 564 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,120 and faster. And we have all this technology 565 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,200 and now there's all this resource with fueling and the 566 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:13,560 science behind that and testing and really individualizing all 567 00:30:13,560 --> 00:30:15,360 of that specifically to the athlete. 568 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,680 Where as a lot of my career, I was just like throwing stuff at 569 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,040 the wall being like, I don't know, like maybe this time I'll 570 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:23,320 take Morton. Maybe this time I'll use SOS. 571 00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,040 Maybe this time I'll take a goo gel at like 15, OK. 572 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:32,600 Like I just felt like I didn't educate myself in those areas 573 00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:35,240 that were really up and coming towards the end of my career. 574 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:38,160 I was so kind of trying to do what I had always done, and I 575 00:30:38,160 --> 00:30:40,640 was very resistant to change that. 576 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:45,880 And so being part of OAC and seeing the resources that they 577 00:30:45,880 --> 00:30:50,880 have and how they're so willing to individualize everything for 578 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,600 the athletes because everyone is so different with their intake 579 00:30:53,600 --> 00:30:57,320 and what they need and how they're using Morton and the 580 00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,320 training and how they're recovering the shoes that they 581 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:01,040 need for that. Like all of these different 582 00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:05,800 things are being thought about and then really being like 583 00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:09,680 specific being built out specifically to each athlete to 584 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:11,560 really maximize what their needs are. 585 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,600 And I just like never, I just never had that. 586 00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,280 And that's, that's the difference now is it's just 587 00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,120 like, yeah, we have the shoe technology, which now feels 588 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,080 pretty evenly dispersed as far as like athletes having access 589 00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,200 to this technology, brands really hitting the mark with 590 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,840 that and really pouring in money and effort to like make sure 591 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:35,320 that everyone has access to like the shoes. 592 00:31:35,320 --> 00:31:38,880 But it's like, OK, then how do you get the other small 593 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:42,840 percentages that can really add up over the course of 26 miles? 594 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:46,120 And so it's the massage, it's the fuelling, it's how you're 595 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:48,040 recovering. It's all of these things. 596 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,640 And so, yeah, getting to be part of that with OAC has really 597 00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:56,800 opened my eyes to like, oh, this is really if you want to win 598 00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,680 major marathons and you want to continue to progress with the 599 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:01,640 sport. Because there was a point in my 600 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,600 career where I kind of felt like I just like wasn't progressing. 601 00:32:05,360 --> 00:32:08,080 And again, part of that was like, you know, maybe it's just 602 00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:12,320 time to step back and and kind of pivot a little bit. 603 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,360 But yeah, in order to keep progressing and to keep winning 604 00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:18,880 these majors and to keep being in the conversation and getting 605 00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,080 top five or making teams, you have to keep innovating and you 606 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,800 have to keep being willing to tweak things with training or, 607 00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:30,000 you know, again, just pour resources into these other 608 00:32:30,000 --> 00:32:32,160 things. And so the fact that this team 609 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:37,120 is so all about that is why, you know, the athletes are able to 610 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,160 really maximize themselves at the highest level, whether it's 611 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:42,880 on the track or the roads. Hey, you show up to practice one 612 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:45,520 day and you're like, wait, now we're taking broccoli shots. 613 00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:46,120 What? What's? 614 00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:48,800 Happening. Yeah, yeah, exactly. 615 00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,800 You're like, what's going on? Like now we're all just like 616 00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:53,200 taking shots of Red Bull. Like, I don't understand, like 617 00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:56,760 what's what's happening. But that's sometimes that's how 618 00:32:56,960 --> 00:32:58,800 quickly it feels like things move. 619 00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:01,280 And again, that's The funny thing with any sport, there's 620 00:33:01,280 --> 00:33:04,360 like trends and fads and, you know, we all like, remember the 621 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,440 beet juice thing? Like that was big during my 622 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,320 career where people were taking like, beet juice. 623 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,120 I'm so big on beet juice, yeah. I know. 624 00:33:11,160 --> 00:33:13,160 I think that's, I think there's still signs to that. 625 00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:15,840 Maybe I'll bring that back. But yeah, there's always, you 626 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:18,480 know, this next thing that people are experimenting with. 627 00:33:18,480 --> 00:33:21,320 But I think that is part of how you continue to progress in the 628 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,880 sport is being open minded and willing to lean into the 629 00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:30,560 resources that we have to really be the best that you can be and 630 00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:32,320 really find what those limits are for yourself. 631 00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,880 You have to be willing to continue to learn and always 632 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:37,760 just be a student of the sport. I think it's so important. 633 00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,600 The City of Smack podcast is presented by Gnomeo Performance 634 00:33:43,600 --> 00:33:46,880 from the inside out. You probably saw it, Joe 635 00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:51,640 Clecker's marathon debut in New York City, 210A debut that 636 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:54,760 looked composed and strong all the way throughout. 637 00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,200 While he's spoken out about the importance of fueling a lot on 638 00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,640 this show, Joe has also been using Gnomeo in his build up. 639 00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:06,080 Gnomeo's built exactly for that feeling that we're chasing. 640 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:09,320 When the training clicks, recovery feels smoother and race 641 00:34:09,320 --> 00:34:13,080 day legs actually show up. It's a daily 60 milliliter shot, 642 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,360 mostly broccoli, sprout juice, lemon, and a touch of sugar. 643 00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:20,520 But the magic is in the science. Nearly a decade of research from 644 00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:24,280 Sweden's Karolinska Institute went into stabilizing compounds 645 00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,320 from cruciferous vegetables, the stuff that helps your body 646 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,760 naturally handle the stress of heart training. 647 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,360 We're talking lower lactate, better recovery, and stronger 648 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,040 muscle adaptation. Athletes like Cole Hawker, 649 00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:38,360 Andreas Almgren, Clayton Young, Nikko Young are all using Gnomio 650 00:34:38,360 --> 00:34:41,120 to push a little harder, bounce back faster and feel that light 651 00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,400 on your feet rhythm that we're all chasing. 652 00:34:43,679 --> 00:34:46,400 Let's hear how Joe Clucker has been using Gnomeo. 653 00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:49,639 So first I was a bit of a skeptic of the the product. 654 00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:51,000 You know, I was like, what is this? 655 00:34:51,080 --> 00:34:54,880 But I got it and started using it and then I'll use it like 2 656 00:34:54,880 --> 00:34:57,680 hours before I'll get up and have it because our workouts are 657 00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:00,400 pretty early. Every workout I'd implement what 658 00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:02,320 I'm going to do on race day into the workout. 659 00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:06,000 So my routine every morning is same breakfast Gnomeo 3 hours 660 00:35:06,000 --> 00:35:10,440 before, I do buy card two or three hours before and then I'll 661 00:35:10,440 --> 00:35:12,360 have no meal before bed and for recovery. 662 00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:16,320 But I wasn't a huge believer and I just did it because they had 663 00:35:16,320 --> 00:35:20,080 sent it to me at first. And then Sage started using it 664 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:24,080 and she used it at USA's for the first time between her rounds 665 00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:28,800 and she was like blown away by how fresh she felt through the 666 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:30,360 rounds. And obviously that could just be 667 00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,520 fitness and training, but she was like, you know, this was a 668 00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:35,280 new thing she was trying and it really helped her. 669 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,040 And then she did the same in Tokyo. 670 00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:40,040 And like, so now we have that helped me really believe in it a 671 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:41,320 lot. I'm like, OK, I know she's the 672 00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:44,440 fittest she's ever been. But also she starts using this, 673 00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,280 you know, this new product and has the best race of her life. 674 00:35:48,280 --> 00:35:50,400 You know, maybe I should keep using it as well. 675 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:54,480 So yeah, I've been using it every workout, every long run. 676 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:58,160 The recommended practice is you take one shot 3 hours before a 677 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:02,480 big workout, a race, or daily during heavy training blocks and 678 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,640 those especially tough days. A second shot before bed can 679 00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,920 help your recovery overnight. It's nature meets science, a 680 00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:14,880 small routine with a big payoff. You can find Gnomeo on the feed 681 00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:20,040 and Sidious Mag listeners get 15% off using code Sidious 15 at 682 00:36:20,040 --> 00:36:25,480 check out. That's Citi US15 at thefeed.com. 683 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:33,640 Gnomeo, prepare to outperform. This episode of the City of 684 00:36:33,640 --> 00:36:37,480 Smack podcast is presented by the Wahoo Kicker Run. 685 00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,760 So at this point in human history, we all know what a 686 00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,160 treadmill is. You either love it or you call 687 00:36:43,160 --> 00:36:45,520 it the dreadmill. But what if I told you the 688 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:48,680 treadmill finally got interesting and fun? 689 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,160 Yeah, Meet the Wahoo Kicker Run. It looks like your normal 690 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,800 treadmill, but the first time you step on it, you realize it's 691 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:00,200 not the kicker Run literally responds to you. 692 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,720 Run faster, it speeds up. Ease back, it slows down. 693 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:07,640 That's called the run Free mode. And it's exactly what it sounds 694 00:37:07,640 --> 00:37:10,560 like. No buttons to worry about, Just 695 00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:12,600 running. That actually feels like 696 00:37:13,120 --> 00:37:15,520 running. You can hook it up to Zwidth, 697 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,000 and it gets even better. The kicker? 698 00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:19,680 Run automatically adjusts for climbs and descents. 699 00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,320 So when your avatar is hitting a hill in the virtual world, the 700 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:25,400 deck tilts up. In real life. 701 00:37:25,640 --> 00:37:29,320 You're suddenly feeling that terrain, not just seeing it. 702 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:34,560 Add in a quiet motor, a buttery smooth belt, and speeds up to 15 703 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,000 mph. It's basically the closest thing 704 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:39,600 you can get to an outdoor run without leaving your house. 705 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:42,400 We all know those temperatures are starting to drop, so you 706 00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:46,760 might want to get on top of Lock down your Wahoo Kicker Run. 707 00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:51,320 It's premium, it's techie, it's kind of nerdy, and it's a lot of 708 00:37:51,320 --> 00:37:53,160 fun. The Wahoo Kicker Run makes 709 00:37:53,160 --> 00:37:56,120 indoor training something you actually look forward to. 710 00:37:56,120 --> 00:37:59,800 Cole Hawker, the 5000 meter world champion and 1500m Olympic 711 00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:05,840 champion, uses it to supplementhistrainingyoucanlearnmore@wahoofitness.com 712 00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:10,040 Citius Mac Podcast listeners can also unlock a special offer from 713 00:38:10,040 --> 00:38:14,040 now until the end of November. 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The Wahoo Kicker run. 721 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,240 Check it out at wahoofitness.com. 722 00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:45,280 Use Code Sidious at checkout for that special offer All right so 723 00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,000 quick side note then because a lot was made of Joe's fueling 724 00:38:49,000 --> 00:38:53,400 plan for the New York City marathon just going viral over 725 00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,960 dialing into the you know, aiming for 175 grams of carbs I 726 00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:00,760 guess over, you know the the two hours. 727 00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:06,880 So I, what was your role in just sort of like the R&D side of 728 00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:09,400 this whole entire thing? And because I mean, you guys do 729 00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:13,440 work with, you know, a nutritionist and you know, I'm 730 00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:17,920 sure Dathan knows just from his own experience, just sort of 731 00:39:17,920 --> 00:39:20,160 like how much to, you know, take in? 732 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,440 But you know when this plan gets devised, I guess. 733 00:39:23,440 --> 00:39:27,440 Like, what were you thinking? Yeah, I mean, again, coming from 734 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,440 the athlete side of things, I always felt like the fueling was 735 00:39:30,440 --> 00:39:33,600 a monster hole for me because I just, I just never really knew 736 00:39:33,600 --> 00:39:37,080 what my needs were. And I didn't really understand 737 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,520 the role that carbohydrates played, like during the race. 738 00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:44,760 And so I came into OAC and Dathan's telling me, like, how 739 00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,080 much fuel Helen takes in and I'm like, how is she doing that? 740 00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:52,160 She's like, you know, 110 lbs and like 2 inches shorter than 741 00:39:52,160 --> 00:39:53,680 me. Like, how is this woman taking 742 00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:56,200 in like that amount of cards over like 2 hours? 743 00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:58,880 But he was like, that was it. The biggest difference for her 744 00:39:58,880 --> 00:40:01,360 is, you know, when she debuted in New York a couple years ago, 745 00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:04,680 she hardly took anything and bombed horribly. 746 00:40:05,320 --> 00:40:07,560 And like, you know, in her words, she was like, I almost 747 00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,560 like, you know, I feel like I was crawling to the finish line 748 00:40:09,560 --> 00:40:11,000 and I never wanted to do another one. 749 00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:14,880 But once they like got the fueling dialed in and they like 750 00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:18,760 tripled what her intake was and how much she was doing, it made 751 00:40:18,760 --> 00:40:21,960 a monster difference not only in training, but then in the race 752 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:23,880 itself. And that was the thing with Joe 753 00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:26,280 is like when he started this build, we were like fueling, 754 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,240 fueling, fueling. Like it's all about like how 755 00:40:29,240 --> 00:40:32,280 much you can start to train your gut to be able to take. 756 00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:35,240 Not only is that going to be a huge game changer in the race if 757 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:38,760 we can get to this point of you being able to take in as much as 758 00:40:38,760 --> 00:40:41,720 he did, but also in training because it really, really 759 00:40:41,720 --> 00:40:45,720 elevates your recovery from these monster 40K runs, All of 760 00:40:45,720 --> 00:40:47,400 this long intensity that we're doing. 761 00:40:47,400 --> 00:40:50,920 Like if you can really fuel during all of those sessions, 762 00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,760 the recovery is going to be, you know, huge as far as like being 763 00:40:54,760 --> 00:40:57,880 able to jump into the next thing and staying healthy throughout 764 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,440 this build. So it was funny because he was 765 00:41:00,440 --> 00:41:03,440 really playing around with the caffeine. 766 00:41:04,320 --> 00:41:08,000 He did too much caffeine. Like I think it was like 2 weeks 767 00:41:08,000 --> 00:41:10,480 out. He had like a 13 mile kind of 768 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:16,640 fart leg and he took 5 bottles and every single bottle had 769 00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:18,880 caffeine in it. And he just completely like 770 00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:22,120 obliterated his gut and was just really unwell after that 771 00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:24,200 workout. So then we like went back to the 772 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:25,640 drawing board. So we're like, what if we do 773 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:28,240 like half and half, right? So you're like, you know, it's 774 00:41:28,240 --> 00:41:32,600 250 of regular and then 250 of caffeine as opposed like the 775 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,920 whole bottle being caffeine. It was just too much. 776 00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,560 And then we played around with gels and decided that if he was 777 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:42,520 able to get in as much fluid as he was getting in, like did we 778 00:41:42,520 --> 00:41:44,120 need the gels? Probably not. 779 00:41:44,920 --> 00:41:47,800 And so again, like that was just part of it for him is every 780 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:51,120 athlete is different, but Helen was the benchmark as far as like 781 00:41:51,120 --> 00:41:53,800 this is what she typically can take in. 782 00:41:54,120 --> 00:41:57,360 How do we work up to you being able to do something similar for 783 00:41:57,360 --> 00:42:01,160 what your needs are? And so, yeah, just kind of 784 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,640 playing around with him, having Morton come out and do 785 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,560 individualized testing, like we did a lot with the bicarb as 786 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:08,880 well, figuring out where that kind of fit in. 787 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,600 When we wanted to take that, we knew we wanted to do that on 788 00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:13,280 race day. So you're also playing around 789 00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,920 with that because so much of it is you have to do it to figure 790 00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:19,520 out what works and what doesn't. And so some runs were really 791 00:42:19,520 --> 00:42:22,320 tough because you were like, we overdid it like way too much. 792 00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:26,880 But then by race day, he really felt like we had dialed in like 793 00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,400 a combination of everything. And he said he got everything 794 00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:34,920 down and really felt like, I mean, he, I think his in his 795 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:38,520 second-half, he closed. He had like the second fastest, 796 00:42:38,520 --> 00:42:40,640 like clothes. I think as far as like the last 797 00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:43,960 6 miles outside of like the winter, maybe like he was just 798 00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:47,200 mowing people down because again, so much of it was just 799 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:49,920 his fueling. And like we told him and Joe or 800 00:42:49,920 --> 00:42:52,800 we told him and Helen, you should be the last one with your 801 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:54,840 bottle. Like you hold that sucker for 802 00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,000 like a mile if you need to. You don't have to just like chug 803 00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:01,120 it all down, like sip it, but get the bottle down. 804 00:43:01,760 --> 00:43:04,600 And so again, I just think with where the sport is, especially 805 00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,560 the marathon, so much of it is fueling. 806 00:43:08,360 --> 00:43:11,760 And again, he he looked so good. He ran so well in that 807 00:43:11,760 --> 00:43:14,680 second-half. And really just, I think that 808 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,440 was a huge reason why he had the day that he had was because he 809 00:43:17,440 --> 00:43:21,200 got all of his bottles and we really honed in on his feeling 810 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:23,280 throughout his whole build so that he could do that. 811 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,280 Yeah, I guess like I did follow up with him and I shot him a 812 00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:29,200 message and I was like, wait, so did you get it all down and, and 813 00:43:29,200 --> 00:43:30,880 felt good? And he said, yeah, it was more 814 00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,680 like 200 to the first hour, 120 ish the second first bottle set. 815 00:43:34,680 --> 00:43:36,520 All right. And then after that, no issues. 816 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:39,560 And then I said, and then you still had room for pizza 817 00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:41,120 afterwards? He goes, Oh yeah, we went to 818 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,440 Roberta's in Williamsburg and I was like, OK, I think that's the 819 00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:46,520 more impressive part. It is, I know, because you take 820 00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,440 that and Helen also had pizza like right after. 821 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,080 So. But it's like, yeah, you take in 822 00:43:51,080 --> 00:43:53,760 that amount of fuel, you just finish, you know, like your 823 00:43:53,760 --> 00:43:56,880 stomach is a mess sometimes. But again, because we practiced 824 00:43:57,000 --> 00:44:00,800 so diligently with that, I think they were actually pretty good 825 00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:02,720 by the end. But that's the other thing, you 826 00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,760 know, pizza, that's what fuels Joel Joe. 827 00:44:05,080 --> 00:44:08,640 I think he ate pizza like every single meal leading in. 828 00:44:08,640 --> 00:44:10,200 So there you go. That's the secret. 829 00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:11,760 It's not the Morton, it's the pizza. 830 00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:16,240 One thing that I feel like doesn't, you know, it's not 831 00:44:16,240 --> 00:44:22,360 listed on like the job listing for, you know, Rhodes coach on 832 00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:27,760 OAC is that you have to push and challenge Helen O'berry, right? 833 00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:29,240 Who's so? Hard, yeah. 834 00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:33,400 An Olympic medalist in the marathon now multiple time 835 00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,440 Boston and and New York champion. 836 00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:41,040 And so I, I, I feel like it's it takes a little bit of confidence 837 00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:44,400 to get into that position to be like all right, I my job is to 838 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:47,360 push her. Is there a moment that you 839 00:44:47,360 --> 00:44:51,960 remember from the build up where you felt like, OK, I'm doing 840 00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:53,880 that right now. And it doesn't necessarily have 841 00:44:53,880 --> 00:44:56,240 to be like, all right, like I prescribed this workout and then 842 00:44:56,240 --> 00:44:58,000 she was hands on knees afterwards. 843 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,560 But was there like a glimmer or a memory that you have from the 844 00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:04,520 build up where you're like, oh, well, like, that was pretty cool 845 00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,440 to see. And that's what people don't get 846 00:45:06,440 --> 00:45:10,080 to see on race day. Yeah, I mean, it was, it was, 847 00:45:10,080 --> 00:45:13,200 again, it was so intimidating coming in because, you know, I 848 00:45:13,200 --> 00:45:15,680 knew, obviously I knew who Helen O'berry was. 849 00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,680 I followed her career. I raced her a handful of times 850 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:23,840 at the end of my career. And so you're like, how like, 851 00:45:23,840 --> 00:45:27,120 what is my role with her? Like, how do I compliment her 852 00:45:27,120 --> 00:45:29,360 team? And she obviously already has so 853 00:45:29,360 --> 00:45:33,760 many things dialed in and has had such success in this chapter 854 00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,480 of her career with the marathon. So you're like, how do I add to 855 00:45:36,480 --> 00:45:38,200 that? Like, what can I possibly bring 856 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:42,800 to the table that like she doesn't have or, you know, but 857 00:45:42,800 --> 00:45:48,120 it was really special, I think, for me getting to have a seat at 858 00:45:48,120 --> 00:45:51,800 Helen's table. And really, I mean, I biked with 859 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,680 her every single day. Like we would usually I give her 860 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:59,560 like a day, like one day a week about where she was on her own, 861 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:04,520 but like I was with her every single day and to just get an 862 00:46:04,520 --> 00:46:09,160 inside glimpse as to why she is the queen and why she is one of 863 00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:13,880 the the best we may ever see it. You're just like, This is why, 864 00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:19,240 like I, I've never seen someone train the way that she can train 865 00:46:19,480 --> 00:46:24,360 day after day after day. Like part of my role with Helen 866 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:30,200 is holding her back because she was just so fit so early into 867 00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,560 the New York build. Like she did a 40K run. 868 00:46:33,080 --> 00:46:36,440 I bite the whole thing with her. It was unbelievable. 869 00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,640 Like how quickly she was running up here over hills. 870 00:46:40,400 --> 00:46:44,520 I mean, she would have run if she did like just under 25 871 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,600 miles, if she would have just completed the marathon distance, 872 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,240 she would have run like a 221 marathon up here. 873 00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:55,240 It was just like mind blowing that she can just put in that 874 00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:56,840 kind of work like week after week. 875 00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:00,720 So for me, a lot of it was biking with her on her easy days 876 00:47:01,080 --> 00:47:03,480 and like slowing her down. I would pace cap her. 877 00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,600 I'm like, you cannot go faster than this today. 878 00:47:06,600 --> 00:47:09,000 Like you cannot. And every time she would, I 879 00:47:09,000 --> 00:47:11,320 would kind of creep to the front on the bike or I would like 880 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,560 really pull her pacer back. She had a pacer, Dennis, who we 881 00:47:14,560 --> 00:47:18,960 were incredibly grateful for. He was awesome, but even the 882 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,960 last couple weeks, like probably 3 weeks until New York, like 883 00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:24,640 she'd almost killed Dennis off and he's like a 212 guy. 884 00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:29,440 So it was just like, again, it was really cool for me to just 885 00:47:29,440 --> 00:47:33,520 see how one of the greatest athletes of our generation, why 886 00:47:33,520 --> 00:47:36,200 she is one of the best. She's so professional. 887 00:47:36,200 --> 00:47:40,080 She shows up every day, she's funny, she's excited to train. 888 00:47:40,080 --> 00:47:43,200 You can tell she just loves the process of what she does, which 889 00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:46,320 is also why I think she's just had the longevity to the career 890 00:47:46,320 --> 00:47:49,440 that she has. And then getting to build a 891 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:52,920 relationship with her, because I was with her every single day. 892 00:47:54,720 --> 00:47:57,000 It was really special. It was just really cool to get 893 00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,920 the opportunity to work with an athlete like Helen. 894 00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:04,640 It's pretty amazing. So it was it was it was cool. 895 00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:05,600 Yeah. And just like being in the 896 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:09,120 weight room with her, like, cuz again, she doesn't a lot of 897 00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:13,320 Kenyan athletes, from what I've learned, don't really lift. 898 00:48:13,440 --> 00:48:14,920 It's like not a thing that they do. 899 00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:17,360 So like challenging her in the weight room and like making her 900 00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,480 meet me to lift because otherwise I'm like, I know 901 00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:23,000 you're not going to do it, but just kind of like figuring out 902 00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:26,080 how to be that support for her and do things with her. 903 00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:30,120 So again, she's not out there by herself was kind of where I felt 904 00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:32,440 like my role was with her. And then like pulling the reins 905 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:36,440 as much as you can pull the reins on, Helen was also part of 906 00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,920 it. So now as the roster expands, 907 00:48:39,920 --> 00:48:43,360 right, you've got Ryan Ford, Patrick Kiprop have been also 908 00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:46,960 like added to the team. Like what kind of athlete are 909 00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,360 you hoping to attract to the roster? 910 00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:53,960 Because you know, from the get go, it felt like for OEC, like 911 00:48:53,960 --> 00:48:58,160 the standard was we want to put people on their national teams 912 00:48:58,160 --> 00:49:01,080 for World Championships and Olympics and and contend for for 913 00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,400 medals, you know, as that development continues. 914 00:49:04,400 --> 00:49:08,600 And so is it pretty similar, you know what the with the approach 915 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:12,680 to the Rhodes group? Yeah, I think for us, we've kind 916 00:49:12,680 --> 00:49:16,480 of spent the last few months really trying to figure out like 917 00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,200 how we want to grow the team and like what makes sense. 918 00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,680 I think for me like it's like it's looking at like the long 919 00:49:23,680 --> 00:49:27,560 term picture and really wanting to have the opportunity to 920 00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:32,320 develop athletes. So that's why Patrick, it was a 921 00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:35,400 really exciting sign because I think he's going to be a monster 922 00:49:35,400 --> 00:49:38,360 on the roads. And we've already seen some of 923 00:49:38,360 --> 00:49:41,240 that this summer with him kind of making that transition to 924 00:49:41,240 --> 00:49:45,400 like the shorter Rd. distances and like even the half, but he 925 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,000 hasn't done a marathon yet. But like just looking at what 926 00:49:48,000 --> 00:49:52,240 his ceiling probably is and what his potential is like in a 927 00:49:52,240 --> 00:49:57,280 structure like very guided supportive program like OACE, 928 00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,240 like that's really exciting. So I think those are the 929 00:49:59,240 --> 00:50:04,000 athletes we're looking at is bringing in kind of that like 930 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,360 next group where it's like they've had really strong NCAA 931 00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:09,400 careers. Maybe they're not like winning 932 00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:12,880 national titles or like they're not like, you know, maybe the 933 00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:14,880 number one or two. But like looking at that long 934 00:50:14,880 --> 00:50:17,440 term development of like who has that potential to really 935 00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,880 continue to like grow and like maximize themselves like on the 936 00:50:21,880 --> 00:50:24,080 longer side of things and like getting a chance to really 937 00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,440 develop those athletes, even if they spend the first year or so 938 00:50:28,440 --> 00:50:30,720 on the team, like kind of more on the trackside. 939 00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:33,400 But like eventually the goal is to bring them fully over and 940 00:50:33,400 --> 00:50:35,320 then like build to the marathon. Because I think with the 941 00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:40,000 marathon where it is, you have to have that legs, feet, you 942 00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:44,120 have to still have, you have to still be very solid on the track 943 00:50:44,880 --> 00:50:48,680 and really like whether you're already a marathoner and you're 944 00:50:48,680 --> 00:50:50,280 coming back down. Like we're kind of going to make 945 00:50:50,280 --> 00:50:52,880 Ryan do and like what we made Helen do going into this New 946 00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:55,880 York build or like a Patrick where it's like keep him on the 947 00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:59,280 track, keep developing that speed, see if he can run a 948 00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:02,480 little bit faster, take a little bit more time off of his PRS and 949 00:51:02,480 --> 00:51:05,960 then like slowly move back up. I think it's kind of the goal, 950 00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:11,240 but yeah, I don't know. We'll kind of we'll we'll kind 951 00:51:11,240 --> 00:51:14,320 of see how things progress. We obviously want to continue to 952 00:51:14,320 --> 00:51:17,280 build the women's side as well and really continue to give 953 00:51:17,280 --> 00:51:21,240 Helen support in that way. But on that side, maybe you're 954 00:51:21,240 --> 00:51:24,200 looking at a slightly older athlete who does have that 955 00:51:24,200 --> 00:51:29,640 marathoning experience and can kind of more immediately jump in 956 00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:32,200 with her for some things. Like it's kind of different when 957 00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:34,280 you look at the men's and the women's side. 958 00:51:34,280 --> 00:51:38,280 As far as like really wanting to help build out this team around 959 00:51:38,280 --> 00:51:41,680 Joe as he's now transitioning and bringing in people like 960 00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:45,320 Ryan, who had that marathoning experience, I think for Joe was 961 00:51:45,320 --> 00:51:48,960 so important, but he's still very young in his marathoning 962 00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:51,760 career and has so much room to grow. 963 00:51:51,760 --> 00:51:55,120 And then bringing in Patrick to kind of balance that out and 964 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:57,400 then figuring out what that looks like on the women's side. 965 00:51:57,400 --> 00:52:00,200 But yeah, it's exciting. It's really fun to finally feel 966 00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,000 like you have like a solid group building and growing. 967 00:52:04,600 --> 00:52:08,120 Because again, the first few months I was on the team, I was 968 00:52:08,120 --> 00:52:10,680 just on the trackside because it really wasn't a roadside yet. 969 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:14,200 So it's really fun to feel like OK, like now I'm really starting 970 00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,680 to get to build out this side of the team, which is why I was 971 00:52:17,680 --> 00:52:19,840 brought on. And it's like coming, it's all 972 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:22,520 coming together and it's, it's pretty awesome. 973 00:52:22,520 --> 00:52:24,680 So. A big part of it too, is just 974 00:52:24,720 --> 00:52:28,440 ONS continued investment into just this the professional 975 00:52:28,440 --> 00:52:30,800 setup. I think that has been proven 976 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,800 over, you know, just the success by OAC over the last like couple 977 00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,080 years. And so no, it's, it's, it's very 978 00:52:37,080 --> 00:52:39,680 cool to see the, the Helen signing to this day, I think was 979 00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:42,480 just brilliant because, you know, one, they caught her at a 980 00:52:42,480 --> 00:52:45,360 moment before she made her marathon, you know, debut. 981 00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:48,280 And then on top of that, just centering her as like the star 982 00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:53,560 that is now proved kind of like proof of, of, you know, the, the 983 00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:58,000 products and everything working. And so no, it's, it's exciting. 984 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,440 And to, to hear that maybe then, you know, there could be some 985 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,560 more big stars coming would be, is super exciting. 986 00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:04,480 So. Yeah. 987 00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,760 I mean, we're just getting started. 988 00:53:05,760 --> 00:53:09,400 And like you said, it's really fun to get to be part of a team 989 00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:15,000 and a company that really is ready to like continue to put 990 00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:19,560 it, put all of that effort and investment in to building out 991 00:53:19,680 --> 00:53:23,440 the roadside as successfully as obviously the trackside has 992 00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,320 been. So yeah, it's exciting. 993 00:53:25,320 --> 00:53:27,400 And yeah, we're just getting started on the roadside. 994 00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:30,120 So more to come. All right, to close this out, I 995 00:53:30,120 --> 00:53:33,360 want to play overrated, underrated, which I do it every 996 00:53:33,440 --> 00:53:36,840 coach that I get on the podcast. I'm going to throw out some some 997 00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,000 some elements of training theory and and you tell me your hot 998 00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,600 take on whether you think it's overrated, underrated and 999 00:53:43,880 --> 00:53:47,480 occasionally you could mix in a a properly rated into into the 1000 00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,440 mix. So we'll start. 1001 00:53:49,440 --> 00:53:53,160 Let's go with alter G Overrated. Underrated. 1002 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:56,120 Your thoughts? Underrated. 1003 00:53:56,480 --> 00:54:00,880 Why? I think the Alter G is a great 1004 00:54:02,200 --> 00:54:05,320 tool to, especially if like I was always a little bit more 1005 00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:08,120 injury prone as an athlete, but like you need to kind of get 1006 00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:10,920 that volume in, especially on the marathon side of things. 1007 00:54:11,120 --> 00:54:16,360 It's a great tool to add in a little bit of extra volume and 1008 00:54:16,360 --> 00:54:19,440 take away some of that impact in that load if you need to do 1009 00:54:19,440 --> 00:54:21,400 that. So you can recover a little bit, 1010 00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,200 but you're still getting that stimulus. 1011 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,640 I think having access to something like that, if you can, 1012 00:54:27,680 --> 00:54:30,600 is I think why not utilize it? I always did. 1013 00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,720 Double threshold. Overrated. 1014 00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,440 Even though you guys probably do it. 1015 00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:40,240 We do. I hope Nathan's not listening. 1016 00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:42,400 No, I think it depends who you are. 1017 00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:45,720 I do. I think you have to progress it 1018 00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:50,400 correctly and there has to be a specific, like, periodization of 1019 00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:53,480 when you're doing that. And you just have to like, 1020 00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:57,560 really research and understand, like the science behind that and 1021 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,160 then who you're asking to do that and like, where it makes 1022 00:55:00,160 --> 00:55:02,640 sense. But yeah, when that was like the 1023 00:55:02,640 --> 00:55:04,840 monster, like everyone was suddenly just doing double 1024 00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,320 thresholds. It's like, I don't know, this 1025 00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,640 feels like it might not work for a lot of people. 1026 00:55:10,800 --> 00:55:14,320 Blood lactate testing. Oh, properly. 1027 00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:15,960 Well, I don't know. I guess I would say, yeah, 1028 00:55:15,960 --> 00:55:18,720 properly rated, I think that can be like a really helpful, like 1029 00:55:18,720 --> 00:55:22,640 we utilize that quite a bit. Again, like it can be a really 1030 00:55:22,640 --> 00:55:26,560 helpful tool to kind of give athletes like those guide rails 1031 00:55:26,560 --> 00:55:30,560 to get what they're supposed to get out of that specific workout 1032 00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:33,000 and like what the point of it is and what you're targeting. 1033 00:55:33,560 --> 00:55:37,080 And so having like clear data and numbers on where each 1034 00:55:37,080 --> 00:55:41,000 athlete is with whatever session it is that you're doing and what 1035 00:55:41,000 --> 00:55:42,920 the goal of that is, is really helpful. 1036 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:46,160 So I would say I don't know how it's properly rated. 1037 00:55:46,360 --> 00:55:48,800 I don't know, yeah. Super shoes. 1038 00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:53,800 This is hard, Chris, because I was not in the Super shoe era. 1039 00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:58,440 So I want to say overrated. It's just no, I think they're, I 1040 00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:03,280 think they're properly rated. Yeah, I definitely have seen the 1041 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:06,760 benefit of the technology. I think even for me, it helped 1042 00:56:07,680 --> 00:56:10,680 give my career more longevity. So yeah. 1043 00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:13,200 But I don't know, I'm old school, so that's a hard 1044 00:56:13,200 --> 00:56:15,960 question for me. All right, soft surface. 1045 00:56:17,840 --> 00:56:20,560 Properly rated, I guess. Yeah. 1046 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:23,240 Yeah. I think if I think soft surface 1047 00:56:23,240 --> 00:56:25,240 is important, I don't think you should just like, you know, I 1048 00:56:25,240 --> 00:56:27,840 don't think if you don't have to be like hammering concrete and 1049 00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:30,600 pavement every single day, I think getting on dirt roads or 1050 00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:34,240 crushed gravel pass is a great way to kind of get those 1051 00:56:34,240 --> 00:56:38,120 recovery miles in with a little bit less of that aggression or 1052 00:56:38,120 --> 00:56:40,920 impact on the body. But I think you need both. 1053 00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:43,760 Like I think I don't think you can just run on soft surface. 1054 00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,080 I think you got to have both in there. 1055 00:56:45,840 --> 00:56:49,000 Here's another one you maybe didn't have too much of pacing 1056 00:56:49,000 --> 00:56:50,400 lights. Overrated. 1057 00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:54,000 Yeah, I agree. Half the time they're not set to 1058 00:56:54,000 --> 00:56:55,800 the right time. No, they're not. 1059 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:59,120 Yeah, Half the time they're in a race, I'm like, Oh my God. 1060 00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,640 I just, I don't know, It feels like this could go one of two 1061 00:57:01,640 --> 00:57:02,880 ways. It feels risky. 1062 00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:08,840 B is track. Oh, yeah, Properly rated. 1063 00:57:08,840 --> 00:57:13,160 I have said I would potentially run a marathon on that track. 1064 00:57:13,160 --> 00:57:14,960 Wow. Just to see how, Just to see how 1065 00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:17,960 fast they could run. I never raced at BU, but man, 1066 00:57:17,960 --> 00:57:20,400 the time's coming out of there. It's wild. 1067 00:57:20,680 --> 00:57:22,080 Yeah, it's cool. Yeah. 1068 00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,280 Bicarb. Underrated. 1069 00:57:25,320 --> 00:57:30,640 I think more people could. I think having learned about it 1070 00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:35,360 and how to properly use it and how to kind of like dose it out 1071 00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,080 so that you can use it appropriately and kind of build 1072 00:57:39,080 --> 00:57:42,120 that tolerance to it. I've seen the difference it can 1073 00:57:42,120 --> 00:57:43,840 make. So I would say underrated. 1074 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:46,160 I think more people should should look into that. 1075 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:49,680 Yeah, I guess because we hear so much about it in the middle 1076 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:53,760 distances, 815 hundred meters, 5K runners utilizing it. 1077 00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,640 But from the marathoner perspective, I guess like what 1078 00:57:57,640 --> 00:58:02,080 is, is it a similar sort of like prescribed approach to, you 1079 00:58:02,080 --> 00:58:04,880 know, 3 hours before, make sure you eat something 90 minutes out 1080 00:58:04,880 --> 00:58:09,520 from the race, you know, mix the the bicarb and consume it and 1081 00:58:09,520 --> 00:58:12,440 then get your warm up going and then you'll be ready to race. 1082 00:58:12,440 --> 00:58:16,320 Like same, same approach. Same approach, yeah. 1083 00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,640 But again, it's kind of like building that in like a lot of 1084 00:58:20,640 --> 00:58:25,200 times we'll have athletes do like half of half of it or like 1085 00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:28,080 kind of like split it up because it is a lot. 1086 00:58:28,080 --> 00:58:30,600 And if you haven't really like trained the system to handle 1087 00:58:30,600 --> 00:58:33,320 that, a lot of people have GI stress and it they're just like, 1088 00:58:33,320 --> 00:58:35,280 oh, it didn't work. So it's like, how do you build 1089 00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:36,960 that tolerance? But once you build that 1090 00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:40,920 tolerance, I would say like by like the 12 or the 15 kind of 1091 00:58:40,920 --> 00:58:44,000 seems to be the sweet spot. It really does. 1092 00:58:44,760 --> 00:58:48,440 I think the results are definitely spoken for and like 1093 00:58:48,440 --> 00:58:50,520 we approach it the same way. Like you just said, that's kind 1094 00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,160 of how we had our athletes do it. 1095 00:58:52,760 --> 00:58:56,960 A couple more weight lifting. Properly rated, definitely 1096 00:58:56,960 --> 00:58:58,680 important, maybe even underrated. 1097 00:58:58,680 --> 00:59:02,760 Like get in the gym, it makes a huge difference no matter what 1098 00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,560 your event is, you got it, you got a lift. 1099 00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:07,320 Learn that the hard way. You got to do it. 1100 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:11,320 Cross training while healthy. Oh, underrated. 1101 00:59:11,760 --> 00:59:14,880 I was I, I think it can bake again, like kind of like the 1102 00:59:14,880 --> 00:59:17,920 altar G same idea. I think if you're someone that 1103 00:59:17,920 --> 00:59:23,160 struggles with high volume, cross training can be a great 1104 00:59:23,160 --> 00:59:25,680 way to supplement some of that. Like I ran one of my best 1105 00:59:25,680 --> 00:59:31,200 marathons doing like almost 50% cross training just because 1106 00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:32,720 again, I was in such an injury pattern. 1107 00:59:32,720 --> 00:59:35,800 We kind of decided to really shake things up and I had to get 1108 00:59:35,800 --> 00:59:38,600 to the start line healthy. So I think people shouldn't be 1109 00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:43,600 afraid to utilize cross training more than sometimes I think we 1110 00:59:43,600 --> 00:59:46,160 think we can. Like obviously, I mean, I had a 1111 00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:48,440 coach always, I had a coach that once said like you only get 1112 00:59:48,440 --> 00:59:51,080 better at running by running, which is true. 1113 00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:54,800 But I think at a certain level, you can play around by 1114 00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:58,000 supplementing other things in to really help just kind of like 1115 00:59:58,000 --> 01:00:01,520 get that, that growth, so or that, yeah. 1116 01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:06,160 Easy one altitude. Oh yeah, properly rated. 1117 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:11,040 Strides. Underrated. 1118 01:00:11,120 --> 01:00:14,600 I think strides are important. Rather you do like hill strides, 1119 01:00:14,880 --> 01:00:18,720 flat strides, I think plyometrics and strides. 1120 01:00:18,720 --> 01:00:21,840 Again, regardless of what your focus is, you don't have to go 1121 01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:24,800 crazy with them, but I I think it's important to keep those in 1122 01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,160 like at least twice a week. Last one jogging rest. 1123 01:00:29,560 --> 01:00:31,760 No, don't do it. Overrated. 1124 01:00:31,760 --> 01:00:33,760 Whatever it is. Just no, just stop. 1125 01:00:34,080 --> 01:00:36,720 I hate when I see people jogging at a stoplight. 1126 01:00:36,720 --> 01:00:39,560 I'm like please stop. It's OK, it's fine. 1127 01:00:39,640 --> 01:00:41,440 Take a break. Awesome. 1128 01:00:42,040 --> 01:00:45,440 All right, Laura, I appreciate you taking the time to catch up 1129 01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,720 on this awesome foray into coaching and a successful 1130 01:00:49,720 --> 01:00:52,960 weekend in in New York with with OAC and I'm excited for so much 1131 01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:54,560 more to come. Yeah. 1132 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:55,840 Thank you, Chris. This was great. 1133 01:00:57,760 --> 01:00:59,320 Thank you all for listening to this episode. 1134 01:00:59,320 --> 01:01:01,360 This episode was produced by Jasmine Fair. 1135 01:01:01,560 --> 01:01:04,240 I love doing this for you guys. So please do me a favor and 1136 01:01:04,240 --> 01:01:07,000 leave a five star view on Apple Podcast or Spotify. 1137 01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,600 That helps us grow the show and get even more awesome guests. 1138 01:01:10,120 --> 01:01:11,680 Let me know what you're enjoying about the show. 1139 01:01:11,880 --> 01:01:14,160 Make sure you're subscribed or following on your favorite 1140 01:01:14,160 --> 01:01:16,000 podcast. Players, please share this 1141 01:01:16,000 --> 01:01:18,360 episode with your friends if you think that they'll get any value 1142 01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:20,640 or inspiration out of it. Let's build this thing together. 1143 01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:22,840 Visit cityofsmack.com for a lot more. 1144 01:01:22,840 --> 01:01:25,200 We've got a brand new website with tons more articles, videos 1145 01:01:25,200 --> 01:01:27,640 and podcasts. As always, I love track and 1146 01:01:27,640 --> 01:01:29,800 field. I'm Chris Chavez, see you next 1147 01:01:29,800 --> 01:01:30,040 time.