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Hey running nerds, Kyle Merber 
here. 

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No Chris Chavez this week. 
I am excited to bring I guess a 

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miniseries to the Sidious Meg 
podcast airwaves this fall with 

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a very special guest, Galen 
Rupp. 

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I decided to run the Chicago 
Marathon in October and thought 

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that it would be really fun to 
get some guidance from a Nike 

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athlete that is also running the
race. 

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And when I took a a long look at
the list of athletes that were 

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competing, I thought, well, who 
have we never really heard from?

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And aside from a couple 
interviews that Galen has done 

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with Sidious through the years, 
I feel like he's just sitting on

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such a wealth of knowledge that 
we haven't fully been able to 

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tap into. 
And so the idea of this series 

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of Galen coaching me as we both 
prepare for the Chicago Marathon

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is not so much about my running 
and my build up to the Chicago 

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Marathon, but more So what can 
we extract from him in terms of 

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his career, his many build ups 
to successful marathons before 

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that all of us would be able to 
take away and apply to our 

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training and our build UPS. 
So it's a great conversation. 

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This is the first episode. 
We'll be doing at least a few. 

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It's funny because I didn't know
how into this idea Galen would 

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be. 
I didn't know if he was 

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ultimately convinced by others 
to take part. 

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But almost immediately, as the 
conversation gets going, and as 

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I've experienced now the last 
week or two as he's been 

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coaching me behind the scenes, 
is he's very into this and is 

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excited. 
So, without further ado, enjoy 

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the episode of the first 
conversation that Galen and I 

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have as we plan the approach to 
the Chicago Marathon. 

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OK, so I'm here joined with I 
guess coach Rupp for our initial

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consultation on the 1st of what 
will be an exciting series 

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leading into the Chicago 
Marathon. 

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And I will be running the 
Chicago Marathon, Galen will be 

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running the Chicago Marathon. 
And as part of a partnership 

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with Nike, I, I thought it would
be really fun if one of our Nike

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athletes who are running in the 
race alongside me. 

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So we'll be going head to head 
at the end of all this would 

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take the reins and coach me up 
along the way. 

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And essentially, you know, we'll
record the advice and share it 

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with the rest of the world. 
And so outside of a very quick 

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alignment call on the the idea 
of the project a few days ago, 

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this is the initial consultation
that Gan and I are going to 

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have. 
And we thought that it'd be fun 

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for everyone to listen in. 
So Galen, thanks for being a 

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part of this. 
Next 2 1/2 months. 

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And yeah, have you done much 
coaching before? 

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Is this new? 
No, I haven't done a ton of it. 

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You know, I've done some. 
There was about a year ago, I 

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was spending a lot of time down 
in Flagstaff and I was a 

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volunteer assistant, you know, 
with the NAU cross country and, 

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and track teams. 
And so, you know, working with 

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Mike and Jared and, and the 
other, the rest of the staff 

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down there was, was awesome, you
know, to get kind of get my feet

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wet a little bit helping out 
with, with some of the college 

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kids. 
But, you know, a lot of it for 

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me was about trying to learn 
from those guys and, and just 

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see, you know, how they operate 
and, you know, the the workouts 

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that they give to the kids. 
You know, the last thing I 

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wanted to do was trying to come 
in and say, well, I think you 

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need to do this, this and this. 
So, you know, where I was able 

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to help, you know, I was there, 
but it was a it was a great 

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experience, but I haven't had a 
lot of experience coaching, you 

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know, specific athletes. 
But this will be fun. 

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You know, I think when, when my 
career is done, it's something 

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that I, I would really be 
interested in doing, you know, 

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in, in several years time. 
So this is a lot of pressure on 

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me then. 
This is, yeah. 

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Don't. 
Don't screw. 

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Put it like that. 
Yeah. 

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Jeez, I got to make you look 
good. 

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No, it's funny. 
I was talking to to Chris and 

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Mack the other day about this 
and they're like, all right, 

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well, if Galen's in, then you 
got to stop going to happy hour 

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and start getting serious. 
So we're going to buckle down 

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here this next 910 weeks. 
Cool. 

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Well, I guess the the basic 
premise for everyone at home is 

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damn, doesn't really know 
anything about what I've been 

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doing, I guess the last six 
years since retiring. 

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And I'm an open book. 
So whatever you need to know in 

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order to write me the best 
training plan possible, I did 

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send you the, the a few of the 
workouts that I've done in the 

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last couple months just here and
there as I'm getting into it. 

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But I'm going to make my, I'm 
going to put my excuses out 

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front in the very beginning, 
which is I've got two young 

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kids, I've got a full time job 
that I commute to and I also 

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travel a lot for work and 
Sidious. 

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So if that's your excuses built 
in at the top, and besides that 

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I've got no excuse now 'cause 
you're on, you're on my side. 

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Well, yeah, well, I got 4 kids, 
so the kid thing, I don't really

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have a whole lot of sympathy for
them. 

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But I can't relate to the, you 
know, traveling as much as you 

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do and you know, having a full 
time job, you know, my full time

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job's to run. 
But yeah, I think that that this

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will be, this will be good. 
So you know what, why don't you,

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what do you just start? 
I mean, what have you been doing

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roughly, you know, and the last 
even like couple years as far as

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you know, mileage and, and, and 
then more specifically, I guess 

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you know, as we get forward the 
last couple months, you know, 

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what's kind of your, your base 
and background as we, as we get 

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into this build? 
Yeah. 

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So I, I retired in 2020 and 
aside from a very occasional 

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thing, I was really miler. 
But since then I like ebb and 

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flow in and out of wanting to 
like jump in races. 

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Like I'd say like once or twice 
a year I get indecent fitness. 

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Immediately after retiring. 
I think it was the 2022 New York

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City Marathon. 
I actually like kind of trained 

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pretty hard for it. 
And it was the year it was 

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really, really hot and I went 
out hard and I died miserably. 

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I think I ran 238 and I thought 
I would never like want to run 

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another marathon again. 
Like I was borderline crawling 

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my way through Central Park just
to make it to the finish line. 

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And, and kind of like the last 
few years, it's I'm running, I'm

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always running 30 to 40 miles a 
week. 

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And then I go through periods 
where like for two months, I'll 

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try a little bit. 
But the thing I've learned is 

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that if you're not working out, 
it's, it's, it doesn't do 

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anything like just running 5-6 
miles easy everyday. 

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Your finish just slowly gets 
worse and worse. 

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And so I've ramped up at times 
into the 5060 mile range, but 

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I'm always running. 
But I I'm no longer running 90 

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miles a week like I used to. 
OK. 

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So like when you were running 
for the mile, 90 miles was like 

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kind of where you. 
Capped out. 

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Yeah, I've, I've, I've had the 
odd 100 mile week here and there

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in my life. 
But for the most part, I like to

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say I was 85 to 90. 
OK, yeah. 

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And, and I know like life's 
really busy now and it's not 

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Yeah, the lifestyle, you know, 
we're, we're really spoiled as 

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as pro athletes where we get to 
just run and then sleep and then

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run again and then sleep. 
And that's, you know, obviously 

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a little bit different. 
But you know, I, I think that, 

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you know, we're getting ready 
for Chicago and, and for me, 

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when I'm building for a 
marathon, that the biggest thing

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that I try to look at is like 
what I can do for like a 12 or 

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16 week block. 
You know, if I can get 20 weeks,

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like that's even better. 
But it, it isn't so much about 

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like a one or two week, you 
know, Hey, I had really high 

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mileage for this week. 
It's, it's about being 

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consistent for, you know, 
10/12/16 weeks ideally. 

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And, and that's where you're 
really going to build fitness, 

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you know, as being consistent 
for, for that long amount of 

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time. 
So, you know, I, I know that you

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sent me some of your workouts 
and, and some of your mileage. 

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I think 2 days ago we were 
talking about this, this really 

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is like a, a fresh thing. 
But yeah, for the next like 9 

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weeks, I think the biggest thing
that we got to kind of our 

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mantras got to be just 
consistency and and stacking 

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weeks on weeks on weeks. 
Do you keep your peak mileage 

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for the extent of that 12 to 20 
week block or do you kind of 

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think of it as like, all right, 
in this six day week period, I'm

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just going to really like bump 
it up. 

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And as part of that, are you 
taking down weeks on purpose in 

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terms of mileage or are you 
letting the chips fall where 

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they may and when you need a 
rest, you need a rest and. 

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I mean, when I, when I go back 
and compare builds, like I'm 

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certainly looking at like what 
I'm averaging for that 12 or 16 

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weeks. 
And and that doesn't mean that 

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I'm just trying to stay at a 
certain, you know, High Peak 

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mileage for that whole time. 
You know, there's definitely 

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going to be ebbs and flows in 
your mileage. 

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Sometimes that's, you know, 
forced, like you get a little 

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injury and you maybe have to 
back off and, and you can't be 

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scared to, to take a low week 
and, and that's just going to 

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happen sometimes. 
And in a, in a marathon build. 

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And I know, especially as, as 
I've gotten older, I think that 

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it's, you've got to be really 
cognizant to, to stay on top of 

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the little, you know, injuries 
or, or things that come up and 

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not be scared to, to back off a 
little bit. 

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But you know, that's kind of 
the, the challenge of the 

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marathon is like, how well can 
you stay up with your workouts 

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and with your, your volume, your
weekly mileage for that 12 to 16

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week block. 
And, and you know, certainly 

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there are races, you know, I'm 
running a half marathon in a 

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couple weeks in Northern Ireland
and I will rest for that. 

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You know, I want, I think it's 
important to, you know, run well

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in races and, and you can't just
be a slave to sing like I have 

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to hit this certain number. 
Sometimes you're going to have 

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weeks that are a little bit 
higher. 

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Sometimes you're going to have 
weeks that are a little bit 

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lower. 
And, you know, I, I just think 

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like your body responds better 
when you're, you're kind of 

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building and not just saying 
like, I'm going to stay in this 

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zone here for a really long 
amount of time. 

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You know, you're able to get 
higher peaks when sometimes you 

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have a little bit of, of lower 
valleys. 

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You know, you, you need that 
rest and there are periods 

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where, yeah, you got to got to 
back off. 

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So throw a number out there and 
like what's the highest you've 

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ever done and is there a sweet 
spot for you personally? 

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And then has there been a 
correlation in your career 

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between when I have a block with
the highest mileage that the 

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race at the end of it has panned
out the best or is it kind of 

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it's not a one to one ratio 
there? 

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You know, I don't think that 
it's necessarily a one to one 

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ratio, but you know, I pretty 
consistently, you know, if I'm 

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in that one O 5 to 110 average 
for, you know, a 12 week or 16 

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week period, like that's that's 
usually pretty good. 

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And when I've run my best races,
you know, and, and you know, 

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within that, again, like there's
a lot of weeks where I'll be 

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running, you know, 1213135, 
there might be some weeks where 

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I'm only running 80 or 90. 
But you know, when you balance 

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that out over that long a 
period, you know, that I would 

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say is kind of been the, the 
number that, that I've been at. 

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And you know, I should say too, 
that as far as peak mileage that

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I run, you know, as far as just 
outside miles, probably is only 

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around 120 is about the most I 
ever really did. 

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You might have an odd week here 
there where you, you do more, 

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but I'm a big believer, you 
know, in, in cross training too.

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And, and that's something that I
think, you know, it's definitely

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going to be relevant for you, 
you know, from a time standpoint

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or if you're travelling, you 
know, I, I've, ever since I've 

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been in high school, I've been a
big believer in, in cross 

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training. 
And it's kind of like you got to

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run a certain amount to get your
running legs under you. 

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You know, you can't discount the
value of running outside, but at

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a certain point, you know, it, 
it becomes a kind of a cost 

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benefit where you're looking at,
am I putting myself at a much 

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00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,920
higher risk of injury, you know,
by running an extra 10/15/20 

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00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,120
miles a week, You know, and I 
don't think that your heart 

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00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,880
really knows the difference as 
long as you're going hard and 

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00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:11,600
you're getting your heart rate 
up, you know, whether that's 

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00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,720
swimming, whether you're on a 
bike, you know, and I've used 

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underwater treadmills a lot. 
I know that's like not something

224
00:13:17,960 --> 00:13:21,840
everybody else has access to, 
but you don't like stare 

225
00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,320
machines. 
I mean, you can get your heart 

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00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:25,480
rate up pretty high on low 
impact. 

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00:13:25,480 --> 00:13:29,200
And again, I, you need to 
develop that cardiovascular 

228
00:13:29,200 --> 00:13:31,120
system. 
But as long as you're getting 

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00:13:31,120 --> 00:13:33,800
your heart rate up, your heart's
not going to say, well, oh, this

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00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,440
is a running mile versus this is
a swimming mile or a biking 

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00:13:36,440 --> 00:13:38,760
mile. 
And so, you know, I've added on 

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cross training in addition to 
that, you know, 100 and 15120 

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00:13:42,680 --> 00:13:45,000
miles a week. 
I might be running outside to 

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00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:48,080
get that total volume up. 
And I would kind of just count 

235
00:13:48,080 --> 00:13:52,440
it as a really easy run, you 
know, time wise to to try to get

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00:13:52,560 --> 00:13:59,080
an equivalent amount of miles. 
So when I first texted you about

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00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:03,000
this, you said jokingly, I hope 
you're ready to run 200 mile 

238
00:14:03,000 --> 00:14:06,320
weeks. 
So I've been running, you know, 

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this block the last five weeks 
I've built from 62 to 72 miles 

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00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,040
and I think I want to settle in 
like the mid 70s. 

241
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:19,360
Does that make sense or do you 
think I should throw in some 

242
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:21,840
double s and it might be junk 
miles? 

243
00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:25,520
Like, I don't know if that's 
worth it or is it just that's 

244
00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,160
going to be enough? 
I, I mean, I think that if you, 

245
00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:31,680
you know, from from listening 
to, you know, when you get up to

246
00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:35,520
like 5060 miles occasionally and
you know, now you're up to 75, 

247
00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:40,360
you know, obviously if you could
sleep and recover and, and run 

248
00:14:40,360 --> 00:14:45,080
80 or 90, sorry, I think that 
that would be like better. 

249
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:50,520
But if it's if that's not 
something that you're able to 

250
00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:56,400
do, like I would just keep it at
that 7577, you know, miles, but 

251
00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,440
add in some cross training, you 
know, add in some biking, add in

252
00:14:59,440 --> 00:15:03,600
some swimming, whatever it is 
that you can just get your heart

253
00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,240
rate up as if you were running, 
going on an easy run and, and, 

254
00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,200
and add it in that way. 
You know, again, like for a 

255
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,320
marathon, pure endurance, your 
running legs are going to be 

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00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:18,400
fine under you as long as you're
running 7075, you're getting in 

257
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,080
some good long runs and you're 
getting in good workouts. 

258
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:24,400
I mean, we kind of got to 
prioritize like what's going to 

259
00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:25,880
help you the most? 
What's going to be the most big 

260
00:15:25,880 --> 00:15:27,480
for your buck getting ready for 
a marathon? 

261
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,880
And if I had to, you know, kind 
of rank them, I would say, you 

262
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,280
know, long runs by far probably 
the single most important thing,

263
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,040
you know, as far as one workout 
to get you ready and get you 

264
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,280
strong. 
Then it's going to be the, you 

265
00:15:39,280 --> 00:15:42,120
know, the stuff at a marathon 
pace, your speed work, you know,

266
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:44,840
intervals, stuff like that. 
And then it's going to be, you 

267
00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:48,200
know, overall volume. 
You can get it, however you, you

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00:15:48,200 --> 00:15:52,680
can get it, whether that's, you 
know, run 70, you know, biking 

269
00:15:52,680 --> 00:15:55,440
for a couple hours a week, like 
do it that way. 

270
00:15:55,440 --> 00:15:56,720
And that's going to keep you 
healthy. 

271
00:15:57,120 --> 00:16:00,480
Because trying to do too much 
miles is also, again, I think 

272
00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:02,800
we're going to run into a risk 
of like getting hurt. 

273
00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:05,560
And doesn't matter what shape 
you're in, if you're hurt, you 

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00:16:05,560 --> 00:16:07,080
can't make it to the start line.
It doesn't matter. 

275
00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,040
All right, so let's talk long 
run. 

276
00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:17,360
I did 20 last week at 628 pace, 
just straight ran 20 miles. 

277
00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,120
Obviously like naturally 
progressed at the end, but that 

278
00:16:20,120 --> 00:16:24,160
was my first twenty. 
I've done a few sort of 

279
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:29,520
structured things like I did in 
an 18 Miller with eight at 5:40 

280
00:16:29,520 --> 00:16:35,200
in the middle. 
Do you 2 questions like have a 

281
00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:41,160
Max like all right, I like to, I
don't go above 24 like 20 I but 

282
00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:43,840
I need a one or two 24 mileers. 
Yeah. 

283
00:16:43,960 --> 00:16:48,680
And then do you normally 
structure long runs as part 

284
00:16:48,840 --> 00:16:51,520
workout or you just it's more 
about time on feet? 

285
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:55,240
How do you think about it? 
Yeah, I, I mean a little bit of 

286
00:16:55,640 --> 00:16:57,040
both. 
You know, I think definitely I 

287
00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:01,960
do a lot of like 2425 mile runs.
That's kind of been like a very 

288
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,520
standard thing. 
Once I'm in, you know, once I'm 

289
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:10,480
in shape and in in the middle of
like a big build, I think 20 

290
00:17:10,480 --> 00:17:12,599
would be kind of, you know, 
minimum. 

291
00:17:12,599 --> 00:17:15,160
And you know, I should say 
though, like when I for the 

292
00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:17,280
first time when I'm in a 
marathon in the Olympic trials, 

293
00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,160
I never ran further than 20 
miles. 

294
00:17:19,160 --> 00:17:22,800
That was as far as I ever went. 
And, you know, I remember, yeah.

295
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:25,400
And I, I, you know, I don't 
think that that was necessarily 

296
00:17:25,400 --> 00:17:26,880
ideal. 
Like I remember Alberto 

297
00:17:26,880 --> 00:17:28,520
constantly telling me the guy, 
you're going to be fine, like 

298
00:17:28,520 --> 00:17:31,360
the last 6 miles, like they, 
they hurt, but you just going to

299
00:17:31,360 --> 00:17:34,120
be in a lot of discomfort for a 
long time, but you can handle 

300
00:17:34,120 --> 00:17:35,320
it. 
It's just a mental thing. 

301
00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,120
And, you know, but I remember 
talking to him a lot about being

302
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:42,200
super nervous about, hey, like 
I'm about to run a marathon for 

303
00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:44,720
the first time and this is the 
farthest I've ever run in my 

304
00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,960
life. 
You know, like, I've never done 

305
00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,680
this in training. 
Like, and I, I did have some 

306
00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,720
nervousness about those last 6 
miles just because it was such 

307
00:17:52,720 --> 00:17:55,280
an unknown to me. 
And you know, I never did it in 

308
00:17:55,280 --> 00:17:58,120
training and it ended up working
out all right. 

309
00:17:58,120 --> 00:18:00,800
You know, I think I had a lot of
fitness and I did a lot of 20 

310
00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,240
milers that, you know, I was 
mentally prepared for it. 

311
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:09,040
But you know, after that I think
we started doing a lot more 25 

312
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:13,440
milers and, and with Mike for 
sure, I still do, you know, 

313
00:18:13,840 --> 00:18:18,360
anywhere from 22 to 25 I would 
say is kind of the range when I 

314
00:18:18,360 --> 00:18:21,360
do a long run, how far I'm 
going. 

315
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,000
I've gone up to I think 30 
before a couple times. 

316
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,400
Is that the longest you've ever 
run? 

317
00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:27,520
30? 
Yeah. 

318
00:18:27,680 --> 00:18:30,520
I think the longest I've ever 
run was 35 miles. 

319
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:34,040
What context did you run 35 in? 
That's fascinating. 

320
00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,080
It was just as part of training.
Yeah, it, you know, and, and I 

321
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:42,280
did it and I remember afterwards
just being like, I don't really 

322
00:18:42,280 --> 00:18:45,760
know what the benefit was to, to
doing that, you know, like. 

323
00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:48,120
Yeah, at a certain point. 
At a certain point, yeah, like 

324
00:18:48,120 --> 00:18:51,120
30, it's, it's almost more of a 
mental thing where you you stop 

325
00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:54,200
thinking so much about the 
marathon or the distance. 

326
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,200
I think for a long time people 
were, I don't want to say 

327
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,040
intimidated by it, but there was
almost too much respect for the 

328
00:19:02,040 --> 00:19:03,320
distance. 
And it's like, you got to do 

329
00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:06,480
that in training. 
And when you do longer, there's 

330
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,120
something I think mentally where
it's like, yeah, you know, 

331
00:19:09,120 --> 00:19:12,040
you're going to get there at the
end and you can do it. 

332
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,680
But I don't, I don't know that 
that's totally necessary to be, 

333
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:17,840
to be. 
Totally, Yeah. 

334
00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:19,760
I would love to not have to do 
35. 

335
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,760
Yeah, I don't think we need to. 
Do you do? 

336
00:19:23,360 --> 00:19:26,600
Do you do long runs on bike 
paths? 

337
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,000
Trails, I know you love the 
turf. 

338
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:34,280
Like what is the surface come 
into consideration when you're 

339
00:19:34,280 --> 00:19:38,200
running that far in practice? 
Yeah, I would say like, you 

340
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:41,360
know, in once we get to within 
like 6 weeks, you know, I'll 

341
00:19:41,360 --> 00:19:43,200
start adding in some more 
concrete. 

342
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,720
But for the most part, I really,
I've always been very diligent 

343
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:49,520
about running on softer 
surfaces, you know, whether 

344
00:19:49,520 --> 00:19:52,520
that's, you know, bar chip 
trails, grass fields, turf 

345
00:19:52,520 --> 00:19:56,080
fields, you know, there's a 
little loop of crust gravel. 

346
00:19:56,720 --> 00:19:59,000
You know, I train on a Nike 
campus almost every day. 

347
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:04,080
And, and so I really, I really 
try to like stay off of that and

348
00:20:04,080 --> 00:20:07,400
it is boring, you know, like 
looping around these things over

349
00:20:07,400 --> 00:20:09,760
and over again. 
It's, it doesn't bother me too 

350
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:12,160
much. 
And and also music. 

351
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,240
Ever. 
Not a lot sometimes, but it's 

352
00:20:15,280 --> 00:20:18,480
very rare and there's a lot of 
times, honestly, I do long runs 

353
00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,040
on the treadmill. 
So, you know, that's very common

354
00:20:22,040 --> 00:20:24,840
for me to run 2025 miles on a 
treadmill. 

355
00:20:24,840 --> 00:20:29,560
And again, it, it just, I think 
there's something about being 

356
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:32,440
able to have total control of a 
pace, you never having to stop, 

357
00:20:32,480 --> 00:20:36,480
you know, for a stop light and 
you know, you can change the 

358
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:41,320
grade on there. 
And so I, I do a fair amount on 

359
00:20:41,320 --> 00:20:44,560
the treadmill as well, which I 
think it's just softer than than

360
00:20:44,560 --> 00:20:48,000
concrete. 
And again, I've been, it's been 

361
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:51,720
like drilled into my head from a
young age like it's just boring 

362
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,840
is better than than being hurt 
and you recover better. 

363
00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:56,640
You know, it's easier on your 
muscles. 

364
00:20:57,280 --> 00:21:00,280
But, but certainly, you know, 
once you start getting into, you

365
00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:03,240
know, within six weeks of a 
marathon to start, you got to 

366
00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:04,760
get used to the pounding a 
little bit too. 

367
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,600
So we, we add that in 
strategically where, you know, 

368
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:11,280
maybe it might be I'm doing, you
know, 8 or 10 miles of my long 

369
00:21:11,280 --> 00:21:15,240
run outside and you know, we're 
adding in a little bit more, you

370
00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,480
know, every every couple weeks 
just to get used to that 

371
00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:21,320
pounding. 
So is there workouts as part of 

372
00:21:21,920 --> 00:21:25,240
the long run on routine? 
Like if you're running 25 miles,

373
00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:28,120
you're not just running 25 miles
at 5:30 pace. 

374
00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:29,840
Like you're doing something in 
the middle. 

375
00:21:30,160 --> 00:21:33,800
Yeah, yeah, there are definitely
times and, and there have been 

376
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:36,160
periods with Mike where, you 
know, I've almost alternated 

377
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:38,920
weeks where one week we've just 
done one where it's just being 

378
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:40,640
on your feet. 
You know, you're out there just 

379
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,640
for a long time, it's easy. 
There's no, you know, he's not 

380
00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,960
telling me you got to run a 
certain pace. 

381
00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,600
It's just kind of however I'm 
feeling get the volume and get 

382
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:53,360
used to being out there for, you
know, 2 1/2 hours on your feet, 

383
00:21:53,360 --> 00:21:57,600
running, drinking and. 
And then the next week we might 

384
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,960
do something a little bit 
harder. 

385
00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:03,800
And you know, one thing I really
like doing is, you know, 

386
00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:07,800
running. 
If I'm going 25, I might run 15 

387
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,200
of it. 
You know what, at a, you know, 

388
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,160
not jogging, but also not super 
hard. 

389
00:22:13,240 --> 00:22:17,040
You know, it might be like 
540-5550 pace for that first 15 

390
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:22,000
and then you know, the last 10 
or the last 7, whatever, you 

391
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,480
start picking it up and, and by 
the end, you know, the last five

392
00:22:25,480 --> 00:22:28,920
miles might be at marathon pace 
or you know, the last couple 

393
00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:31,280
miles would be a little bit 
faster when you're finishing 

394
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:33,400
harder. 
And I think that it's just a 

395
00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:37,560
really good way that it doesn't,
you get used to running on tired

396
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,720
legs, which is a really 
important thing and, and running

397
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,120
fast on tired legs. 
Like you've got to be able to 

398
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:45,120
run at least what your average 
pace, your goal pace is from 

399
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:48,520
marathon when you're tired. 
And the, the challenge is like, 

400
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,640
it's hard to replicate that in 
training without totally 

401
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,200
wrecking yourself. 
You know, for, you know, a week 

402
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:55,840
or two weeks where you can't 
recover from it. 

403
00:22:55,840 --> 00:22:57,680
You can't run a marathon hard 
every week. 

404
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,400
But you know, running something 
where you're doing it at a 

405
00:23:01,680 --> 00:23:05,080
moderate pace and then working 
on closing hard those last 510 

406
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:07,840
miles I think is really 
effective. 

407
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:10,960
And it, and it's also something 
that you're able to, to recover 

408
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,320
from. 
You might have to take an extra 

409
00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,360
day or two to, to recover from 
that because it is going to take

410
00:23:17,360 --> 00:23:20,240
a lot out of you. 
But again, the more you can get 

411
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,120
that feeling of being dead and, 
and physically and mentally 

412
00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,960
knowing that you can still run 
the pace you're hoping to run in

413
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,040
a marathon, I think it just 
gives you so much confidence, 

414
00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:31,840
you know, when when race day 
comes. 

415
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:40,560
So the I operate on a 7 day 
cycle because I'm very much in 

416
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:43,760
life at the moment and I don't 
have the the liberty to be able 

417
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:45,960
to do long runs in any day 
outside of a weekend. 

418
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:51,520
Do you do a seven day cycle 
still or like every 7th day? 

419
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:55,360
Are you doing a long run or 
like, yeah, what's it look like?

420
00:23:55,640 --> 00:23:57,400
Yeah. 
I mean, more or less that's, 

421
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:01,280
that's kind of been what it is. 
You know, sometimes, again, like

422
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,040
Mike's been great about helping 
me understand that sometimes you

423
00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:08,040
just, you need an extra day and,
and that's OK. 

424
00:24:08,120 --> 00:24:12,400
And so, you know, I think that 
again, he, he's always reminding

425
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,720
me about how you got to be able 
to hit your workouts in your 

426
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:19,760
long runs like that. 
That's like the top of the 

427
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:21,320
pyramid. 
Like that has to be your 

428
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,040
priority all the time. 
You know, if you have to take 

429
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:26,680
more recovery days or you have 
to run easier, or maybe you got 

430
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:28,200
to do a little bit less in 
between. 

431
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,000
If we can't hit those key 
workouts, the long runs and the,

432
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,960
and the interval workouts, 
running a bunch of miles slow 

433
00:24:35,960 --> 00:24:38,440
isn't going to help you, you 
know, run fast for a marathon. 

434
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,240
You know, if that was the case, 
it's like we just run 203 

435
00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,240
hundred miles a week and just be
jogging all day. 

436
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:48,160
But that's not going to get you 
to run two O 5 or two O 4, 

437
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,720
whatever it is, you know, 220 
that you're hoping to run. 

438
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:54,440
So the workouts have to come 
first and you got to make able 

439
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:57,040
be able to make sure that you're
recovering from them. 

440
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:02,120
So is it one workout? 
I guess for me as well, The idea

441
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:06,680
being let's do Sunday long runs 
with a big focus obviously on 

442
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:10,480
that and then sometime midweek 
do one other workout that sounds

443
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:11,800
like a. 
Yeah, if you. 

444
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:14,720
Can fit if you can. 
Fit 2IN every once in a while. 

445
00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,040
You know, I think that that's 
good. 

446
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:17,760
You know, maybe like one week 
it. 

447
00:25:18,120 --> 00:25:20,680
So I would say this, if you're 
running like a hard long run on 

448
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:22,880
Sunday and you're you're doing 
something where maybe you're 

449
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:26,960
running the last five or 10 
miles hard, you know, take three

450
00:25:26,960 --> 00:25:30,480
days, four days easy. 
Do a moderate workout. 

451
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:35,360
I mean, maybe just kind of 
spitball on here, but maybe if 

452
00:25:35,360 --> 00:25:38,920
we look at it like in in two 
weeks, like 14 days, you know, 

453
00:25:39,360 --> 00:25:44,800
you're doing 1 long run in those
14 days and you're doing like 33

454
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:46,560
interval workouts in the middle 
of them. 

455
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,440
And then 14 days later you're 
going to do another long run. 

456
00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,040
Does that kind of make sense? 
So if you were going hard on 

457
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,600
Sunday, maybe you're doing an 
overwork on Thursday, maybe 

458
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:59,160
you're doing another workout on 
the weekend like Saturday or 

459
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:04,680
Sunday, maybe you're doing 
something else on Wednesday and 

460
00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:07,800
then Saturday or Sunday we're 
doing another long run. 

461
00:26:08,360 --> 00:26:12,280
And, and I again, I think that 
if you do something super hard, 

462
00:26:12,280 --> 00:26:14,720
whether that's a hard interval 
workout or a hard long run, 

463
00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:17,880
you've got to come back with 
something easier. 

464
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:22,280
You know, you, I think it, it's 
so, so tempting and so easy to 

465
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:25,440
get greedy with trying to stack 
too many good workouts on top of

466
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:27,920
each other. 
And if you're having like in a 

467
00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,800
workout where you run really 
hard and you hit it like that's 

468
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,120
great, but then you got to come 
back with something that's like 

469
00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,680
AC workout, you know, something 
that is to kind of get your legs

470
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,400
under you. 
The purpose of it isn't 

471
00:26:39,400 --> 00:26:41,640
necessarily to build a ton of 
fitness. 

472
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,760
And, and again, coming off of 
those hard long runs, I usually 

473
00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:49,760
my next workout will be 3-4 days
after them. 

474
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:53,320
And a lot of times I'm doing 2 
hundreds or three hundreds and, 

475
00:26:53,320 --> 00:26:56,160
and not spreading all out, but 
still running fast because 

476
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,000
that's something that, you know,
you try to go do 8 hundreds or 

477
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:02,520
KS or miles after doing a hard 
long run, you're going to be 

478
00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:05,040
wiped out. 
Even if you, you know, think 

479
00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:08,960
your body's recovered and, and 
is doing all right, it, it does 

480
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:11,840
take a lot out of you. 
And so you almost need like a 

481
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:15,120
bridge workout or maybe even 2 
bridge workouts from that long 

482
00:27:15,120 --> 00:27:18,800
run before then you're going 
hard again or like, you know, 

483
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,280
let's say Saturday or, or 
Wednesday of that next week. 

484
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,640
Now you're ready to hit it super
hard again. 

485
00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,200
And that's when you focus on 
like, you know, your mile 

486
00:27:29,200 --> 00:27:31,880
repeats or your eight hundreds 
or your KS, something like that.

487
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,360
That's going to give you another
great, great stimulus. 

488
00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:41,960
Well, well, well, about time for
a refreshing twist. 

489
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:45,920
The Sidious Mag podcast is 
brought to you by Ollipop and 

490
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:50,600
for your entertainment I'll be 
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491
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:54,520
again, it's me, Gabby Huntsman, 
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492
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:59,360
watering a crisp, cool, gut 
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493
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,680
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Now that you're several miles 

494
00:28:01,680 --> 00:28:05,400
into your run, praying for shade
and keeping your eyes peeled for

495
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:10,120
an unguarded sprinkler, let me 
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496
00:28:10,120 --> 00:28:13,480
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497
00:28:13,720 --> 00:28:17,080
With the great outbreak of 
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498
00:28:17,120 --> 00:28:21,720
absolutely not an option. 
But without salad, how on earth 

499
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:23,640
are you supposed to get enough 
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500
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,440
Well, I know something that is 
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501
00:28:28,440 --> 00:28:31,680
and fiber, and just so happens 
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502
00:28:35,360 --> 00:28:38,680
Wow, hear that? 
That's the sound of a perfectly 

503
00:28:38,680 --> 00:28:42,480
chilled can of Citrus Rush being
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504
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:47,640
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505
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:52,000
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506
00:28:52,240 --> 00:28:57,240
lemon, lime and orange juices. 
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507
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,600
with a brand new name and no 
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508
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,520
Phew. 
The last thing US runners need 

509
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,120
are more bathroom scares. 
For 25% off your next order, use

510
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,000
Sidious 25 at checkout. 
Get the fiber, avoid the fear. 

511
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:15,320
Happy running. 
All right, so looking at my 

512
00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,360
workout so far. 
So I'm coming off the bench at 

513
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:22,680
the end of May having not like 
broken a 6 minute mile in 

514
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,680
months. 
I started the idea basically 

515
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,840
being like, let's hop on the 
track and just run 520 pace 

516
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:33,720
intervals for a while. 
So I, you know, I did 5 by Ki 

517
00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:36,920
did 5 by 1200. 
I did 10/8 hundreds. 

518
00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:42,360
I did 5 by mile and I'll share 
all these as well for for 

519
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,520
listeners. 
But the idea being was like I 

520
00:29:45,520 --> 00:29:48,640
need something to just start 
moving again. 

521
00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:54,280
And then I slowly have now just 
been like ramping up the amount 

522
00:29:54,280 --> 00:29:57,400
of miles that I can extend that 
520 pace. 

523
00:29:57,480 --> 00:30:00,040
Or. 
So like 520 something. 

524
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,000
So I guess again, like we we 
haven't really touched on this. 

525
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:08,520
So my PB is 226 from Houston 
2025 and that was like a pretty 

526
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:13,840
bad mediocre build up. 
And so I keep joking. 

527
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:21,960
I'm saying that this is project 
222, which is 525 pace and seems

528
00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:25,480
like, you know, that's like a, a
fair next step. 

529
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,640
Obviously we'll see how things 
are developing in the next 9 

530
00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,920
weeks. 
But right now, like that's kind 

531
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:34,440
of been my barometers like 520 
to 530 pace, like somewhere in 

532
00:30:34,440 --> 00:30:36,320
there. 
And now I'm starting to extend 

533
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:38,080
it. 
So when you take a look at the 

534
00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:41,080
way that I've structured where 
I'm at, like the idea of just 

535
00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,680
getting on the track and 
building up from 5K of work to 

536
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:49,840
10K of work, and now, you know, 
yes, a couple days ago I did 

537
00:30:49,920 --> 00:30:53,960
three by three mile at 521 pace.
So now I'm at like 9 miles at 

538
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:57,640
close to goal pace. 
How am I doing? 

539
00:30:57,640 --> 00:31:02,160
What'd you think when you took a
look at what I've structured so 

540
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:03,360
far? 
Yeah. 

541
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,760
I mean, I think it's it's a 
great start. 

542
00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,440
You know, I think that obviously
like you're, you are getting 

543
00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:11,120
longer and longer extending 
that. 

544
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,920
You know what, let me ask you 
like what workouts do you feel 

545
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:20,960
like helped you the most when 
you PB and like what just makes 

546
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,240
you? 
What do you enjoy like doing in 

547
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,560
training? 
Yeah, it's funny. 

548
00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:28,800
And I, I'm curious if you felt 
this way coming from you 

549
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,560
obviously having a successful 
track background. 

550
00:31:32,680 --> 00:31:35,680
I can like fake the shorter 
stuff a little too. 

551
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:42,400
Well, like, you know, I, I've 
just, I've, I've ripped a lot in

552
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:44,760
my life on the track. 
And so sometimes I get on the 

553
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,640
track and it's just like, this 
is good and I can do it. 

554
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:52,320
On paper it might look nice, but
I know this is not converting to

555
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:56,120
marathon fitness like this is. 
I'm tapping into mile fitness 

556
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:59,480
from years ago and muscle memory
there. 

557
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:05,920
And so I do definitely feel like
having 10 plus miles at Gold 

558
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,320
Race pace and not giving myself 
a lot of rest because if I do 

559
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,040
take a lot of rest again, I kind
of like I can just fake it. 

560
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:17,240
And I don't know if that's 
something that you've 

561
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:20,200
experienced before, but I, I 
think I have to run 10 plus 

562
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:24,200
miles and I have to keep rest 
short if rest at all. 

563
00:32:24,280 --> 00:32:29,080
Otherwise, it's not. 
It's it's like I'm just tapping 

564
00:32:29,080 --> 00:32:34,880
until like 2012 to 2020. 
Yeah, No, I mean, look, I I 

565
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,760
think that there's different 
ways to tackle a marathon and 

566
00:32:38,760 --> 00:32:42,040
there's no one right way. 
You know, everybody wants to 

567
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:46,240
talk about double threshold 
seems to be like the buzzword 

568
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:47,760
that everybody's throwing 
around. 

569
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:50,960
And I think that, you know, 
certainly there's there's value 

570
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:54,880
to doing that stuff. 
Me personally, like I, I don't 

571
00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,680
think it's everything. 
And you know I've. 

572
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:01,080
Do you do it ever? 
Yeah, I and I do it under Mike, 

573
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,760
but you know, and when I was 
running with Alberto, we never 

574
00:33:04,760 --> 00:33:06,720
did it. 
You know, we did straight temple

575
00:33:06,720 --> 00:33:11,760
runs where we would just run 
for, you know, 5678910 miles and

576
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,520
or, you know, sometimes I would 
do 20 miles where I just run 

577
00:33:14,520 --> 00:33:19,800
hard for the whole 20 miles. 
But we rarely did things on time

578
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:21,840
to rest. 
I mean, it was super rare. 

579
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:26,360
We did things a lot more where 
everything was very intense. 

580
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:29,840
And the important thing was 
keeping rest like consistent so 

581
00:33:29,840 --> 00:33:34,080
you're able to, you know, kind 
of compare reps or compare 

582
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,040
workouts, But it was never, most
of the time it was like, you 

583
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,880
know, jog a lap was what we did 
in between stuff. 

584
00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:45,080
And, and it wasn't that I was 
never worried about time, but 

585
00:33:45,480 --> 00:33:48,720
but we ran really hard for those
reps in the middle. 

586
00:33:48,720 --> 00:33:53,000
And, you know, I remember when, 
when I first started working 

587
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,640
with Mike in, in 2019 and you 
know, and I was sending him over

588
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:02,040
some of the training I had done,
you know, like before, before 

589
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,560
Chicago and before I ran really 
well at a marathon in Prague. 

590
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,840
And he, you know, he's like, you
look like you're training like a

591
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,480
1500m runner, even for those 
build UPS. 

592
00:34:12,480 --> 00:34:18,040
So, you know, I, I came from the
bottom up a lot early on. 

593
00:34:19,440 --> 00:34:21,800
You know, I know a lot of people
come where they're just talking 

594
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,000
about doing a ton of strength 
and, and I don't think he'd 

595
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,360
one's necessarily better than 
the other. 

596
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:30,560
You know, my best answer would 
be probably need a little bit of

597
00:34:30,560 --> 00:34:33,320
both. 
And, you know, I think with with

598
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:37,120
what you sent me over with your 
workouts, you know, I would say,

599
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,840
yeah, it's there's definitely 
something to be doing a lot of 

600
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,520
things at a race pace with, with
little rest. 

601
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:45,679
You know, that's more of that 
kind of threshold work. 

602
00:34:45,679 --> 00:34:49,639
And and there's a lot of value 
in that, you know, but I think 

603
00:34:49,639 --> 00:34:53,440
sometimes you've got to do 
things that significantly faster

604
00:34:53,440 --> 00:34:56,679
than your race pace too. 
You know, you want that that 

605
00:34:56,679 --> 00:35:01,360
pace to feel so, so easy. 
And again, we've got to, we've 

606
00:35:01,360 --> 00:35:04,600
got to get you to have enough 
endurance that again, you can't 

607
00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:08,320
just rely on having raw speed. 
You know, otherwise Usain Bolt 

608
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,080
would be a great marathoner 
because he's that's so far away 

609
00:35:11,080 --> 00:35:13,960
from his top end speed that, you
know, but he doesn't have the 

610
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:18,200
endurance. 
So again, I, I think that from 

611
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,640
what you sent me, I would just 
say maybe encourage you to do a 

612
00:35:20,640 --> 00:35:22,520
little bit more variety of 
things. 

613
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,800
Like it's OK to still run 2 
hundreds, three hundreds, 4 

614
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,480
hundreds. 
Like I still do that now even 

615
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,680
when I'm getting ready. 
And, and that's not everything, 

616
00:35:31,680 --> 00:35:35,520
but there is certainly a place 
for that because you don't want 

617
00:35:35,520 --> 00:35:39,240
to lose that efficiency and that
speed and that power that, you 

618
00:35:39,240 --> 00:35:40,880
know, you've got a great 
advantage with that track 

619
00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,360
background. 
And you know, I've always just 

620
00:35:43,360 --> 00:35:47,080
said, like the further away your
marathon paces from your red 

621
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,720
line, like you're going to be 
able to relax that much more. 

622
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:53,520
And then when we can add in 
endurance that you're able to, 

623
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,560
you know, not die at the end, 
you're going to run a great 

624
00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,600
marathon. 
And so again, I think, you know,

625
00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:04,480
we can talk about more 
specifics, but the more I'm 

626
00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:07,760
talking out loud, I'm kind of 
like in this two week kind of 

627
00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,520
plan with you. 
Or maybe we're you know, we're 

628
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,600
doing a long run on Sunday, 
let's say Wednesday, Thursday, 

629
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,360
like we're doing something short
in it and fast. 

630
00:36:16,360 --> 00:36:19,960
You know, whether that's hills 
and two hundreds or a bunch of 

631
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,240
three hundreds, like keep 
hitting that that lower system 

632
00:36:24,240 --> 00:36:26,880
where you're running fast. 
You know, I think that that is 

633
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,000
going to help. 
So best waist training you can 

634
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:32,360
do for your legs is sprinting. 
And so, you know, maybe doing 

635
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:37,000
that on a Wednesday or Thursday,
maybe on Saturday, then we're 

636
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:41,640
doing some, some threshold stuff
where you are like, you know, if

637
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:44,280
you are up for doing double 
workouts, like I, I think that 

638
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,720
they're great. 
You know, it's just about 

639
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:50,800
getting a lot of volume in at 
more or less your marathon pace 

640
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:53,760
on short rest. 
I'll have to talk to my wife if 

641
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,120
I'm allowed. 
OK, well, yeah, definitely do 

642
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,600
that. 
But even if it's just single 

643
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:01,640
set, you know, if you just want 
to work out in the morning, like

644
00:37:01,960 --> 00:37:05,880
get in 1012 miles worth worth of
work with short rest, you know, 

645
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:07,920
and, and start working on that 
system. 

646
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,440
And then maybe on Wednesday or 
Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, 

647
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,640
somewhere in there, you know, 
when you're feeling recovered, 

648
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,680
then that's when we're going to 
do something. 

649
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:21,360
We're hitting, you know, stuff 
that's that's hard and fast, you

650
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,960
know, those 800 KS miles. 
But I think that it's important 

651
00:37:25,960 --> 00:37:30,400
to do those faster than, than 
your race pace, you know, and, 

652
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,960
and don't be scared to take a 
little bit more rest, but, but 

653
00:37:32,960 --> 00:37:36,360
run those things hard and, and 
get in some good volume on those

654
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:38,600
days. 
And then, you know, Sunday 

655
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,520
we're, we're back to another 
long run. 

656
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:44,400
And that I think that might be a
really good two week kind of way

657
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,360
to, to chunk this up where 
you're hitting all of those 

658
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,080
buckets, you're hitting your 
speed a little bit, you're 

659
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:53,200
getting 2 long runs, you know, 
bookending those two weeks, 

660
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:55,440
you're getting some threshold 
and then you're getting 

661
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:00,040
something in that moderate 800K 
miles where you're running 

662
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080
faster than your marathon pace. 
And you know, those are going to

663
00:38:03,080 --> 00:38:05,000
be some some ball Buster 
workouts. 

664
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,600
All right, yeah, I'm in. 
And you know what, we could 

665
00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:13,280
probably structure this around 
some travel as well and weeks at

666
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:17,520
work, a little bit more 
flexibility than like the strict

667
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:25,280
7 day you only have Wednesday 
and Sunday in terms of workouts 

668
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:28,480
and everyday running. 
I think like you're an 

669
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,080
interesting case study of 
someone who has like seen the 

670
00:38:31,080 --> 00:38:36,160
entire evolution of, of footwear
and especially in the marathon, 

671
00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:38,720
we've obviously seen like so 
much benefit to it. 

672
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:44,240
How do you leverage super shoes 
in training? 

673
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:48,040
Like is it every time you have a
big workout, you're in whatever 

674
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:51,760
the fastest shoe possible is? 
Or do you strategically say, 

675
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,200
hey, like, you know, we're going
to run this in trainers? 

676
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:57,520
Yeah. 
So how, how, how do you use it 

677
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,640
in in the toolbox? 
Yeah, I, I kind of, I kind of 

678
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:04,880
treat super shoes almost like 
like spikes, like I, I run in 

679
00:39:04,880 --> 00:39:07,360
them a fair amount for, for hard
workouts. 

680
00:39:07,360 --> 00:39:10,840
But you know, even when I was 
running on the track, you know, 

681
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,800
pre pre super shoes, you know, I
did a lot of stuff just in 

682
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:17,680
normal, normal flats, you know, 
at least half of the workout 

683
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,680
would usually be in that, unless
it was like, you know, a couple 

684
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,760
times where there was a really, 
really big one where we were 

685
00:39:22,760 --> 00:39:24,040
just hitting it hard from the 
start. 

686
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:28,080
Like I'd wear spikes for the 
whole thing and, but most of my 

687
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:32,160
workouts were like half to 3/4 
of it might be in normal flats. 

688
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:36,400
And then the last half or the 
last quarter of it, I'm wearing 

689
00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,000
spikes. 
And then as the season went on, 

690
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:42,200
you know, we, we would do more 
and more and spikes, you know, 

691
00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,200
it usually was like half and 
half or sometimes towards the 

692
00:39:45,200 --> 00:39:47,680
end, you know, when we're 
getting into like racing season,

693
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:52,000
we'd, we'd be doing like 3/4 of 
it and spikes and start out in 

694
00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:54,480
flats. 
But you know, the big thing was,

695
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:56,840
was just protection. 
You know, it's, it's like, 

696
00:39:57,400 --> 00:40:03,560
again, injury prevention is, is 
been such a big part of my 

697
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:07,920
career and, and why I think I've
been able to like continually 

698
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:10,560
train for so long. 
And, and I've definitely had my 

699
00:40:10,560 --> 00:40:13,960
fair share of things come up. 
But we've always just said, you 

700
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:17,120
know, an ounce of prevention is 
worth a pound of cure and. 

701
00:40:17,480 --> 00:40:19,920
You know, it's frustrating 
sometimes they have to stop a 

702
00:40:19,920 --> 00:40:22,640
workout or have your coach say 
like, Hey, you're limping or 

703
00:40:22,640 --> 00:40:25,680
something sore, but you deal 
with that right away. 

704
00:40:26,240 --> 00:40:30,200
And if you can only miss, you 
know, a couple days versus a 

705
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:33,560
couple weeks or a couple months,
like you'll take that every 

706
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,720
time. 
But again, I, I think it's 

707
00:40:35,720 --> 00:40:40,520
really easy to say like, oh, 
it's, it's not that bad and push

708
00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:42,840
through it. 
And so that was a big reason 

709
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:45,240
why, you know, we didn't wear 
spikes all the time. 

710
00:40:45,240 --> 00:40:47,640
And, and I think with super 
shoes, like they're, they're 

711
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,840
tremendous, you know, I mean, 
they for me, you know, I've, 

712
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:56,120
I've where the alpha fly, you 
know, from as soon as they came 

713
00:40:56,120 --> 00:41:01,320
out and I I love them, but I 
wouldn't run on them all the 

714
00:41:01,320 --> 00:41:03,880
time. 
You know, I think that they do 

715
00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:08,240
such a good job with putting 
your feet in good positions and 

716
00:41:08,240 --> 00:41:10,600
they do such a good job. 
You know, they they feel good. 

717
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:15,880
You're able to run fast in them.
But again, if you're doing that 

718
00:41:15,880 --> 00:41:18,480
all the time, I think you need 
to actively be working on like 

719
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:21,440
strengthening your feet a lot. 
And, and that's where I think 

720
00:41:21,440 --> 00:41:25,040
now like a normal pair of flats 
or training shoes where you 

721
00:41:25,040 --> 00:41:27,960
know, there's not just a ton of 
foam in them can can really 

722
00:41:28,360 --> 00:41:31,360
benefit you. 
So, you know, the majority of my

723
00:41:31,360 --> 00:41:34,320
running right now is done in a 
in the structure Triax, just 

724
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,480
normal structure. 
You know, that's what I've 

725
00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:40,600
always trained in because I do 
have a tendency to pronate a 

726
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,480
lot. 
So I need a little bit extra and

727
00:41:45,200 --> 00:41:47,520
you know, now I, I kind of look 
at shoes. 

728
00:41:48,640 --> 00:41:52,240
There was a guy who who works in
shoe development and Nike and he

729
00:41:52,240 --> 00:41:53,600
put it this way. 
So I'm going to steal this from 

730
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:54,880
him. 
But you know, all these 

731
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:56,760
different shoes you kind of got 
to look at like different, 

732
00:41:57,200 --> 00:41:59,160
different arrows, you know, in 
your quiver, like they're 

733
00:41:59,160 --> 00:42:02,800
different tools in your toolbox,
like they all serve kind of 

734
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:05,960
different purposes and, and used
together is probably the best 

735
00:42:05,960 --> 00:42:08,000
way to, to maximize them in 
training. 

736
00:42:08,360 --> 00:42:11,240
You know, I think the bulk of it
you, you need to be able to feel

737
00:42:11,240 --> 00:42:13,080
the ground. 
Your body needs to be a get used

738
00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,440
to a little bit of pounding. 
And you know, I, like I said 

739
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,200
earlier, I was trying to run on 
soft surfaces to minimize 

740
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,760
pounding. 
If that's not an option from 

741
00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:25,160
like where you live or if you're
traveling, you got to run on a 

742
00:42:25,160 --> 00:42:28,120
road, like maybe using something
with a little bit more 

743
00:42:28,120 --> 00:42:31,120
cushioning, you can kind of 
bring the soft surfaces to you. 

744
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:33,960
So you know, there are times 
where I know I'm going to be 

745
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:36,520
it's going to be hard for me to 
get on grass or hard for me to 

746
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:40,360
to get on a software service. 
Like I might wear a vomero for 

747
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,240
that or a vomero premium, 
something that has like a ton of

748
00:42:43,240 --> 00:42:46,120
cushioning in it just because I 
know it's going to protect my 

749
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,600
legs. 
But super shoes, I think you you

750
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,240
got to be a little careful 
running too much in them. 

751
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:54,640
You know, I've seen a lot of 
people that are doing all their 

752
00:42:54,640 --> 00:42:58,880
easy runs in them and you know, 
all their workouts in them and I

753
00:42:58,880 --> 00:43:03,400
get it like they feel great. 
You run faster, but you should 

754
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,200
really be looking at effort, you
know, and if I run a little bit 

755
00:43:06,200 --> 00:43:11,800
slower for a Rep because I'm in 
a pair of normal shoes, that's 

756
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:13,000
OK. 
You know, they're they're 

757
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:16,080
building strength in my feet. 
And then when I go to use those 

758
00:43:16,080 --> 00:43:18,240
super shoes, I think they're 
going to get more effective. 

759
00:43:18,240 --> 00:43:21,080
Like you don't want to use them 
all the time for everything. 

760
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:25,840
Do you, do you notice a 
difference in, say, your heart 

761
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:27,920
rate or your pace that you're 
like, all right, I know it's 

762
00:43:27,920 --> 00:43:29,440
worth 5 seconds. 
Oh. 

763
00:43:29,680 --> 00:43:31,440
Absolutely. 
Yeah, it's worth a few beats. 

764
00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:33,280
Like, do you have some 
calculation in your head that 

765
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:35,720
you kind of do a conversion for?
For sure. 

766
00:43:35,720 --> 00:43:37,880
Yeah. 
I mean like in just tracking my 

767
00:43:37,880 --> 00:43:41,120
heart rate on long runs or, you 
know, even just running, like if

768
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:43,840
I ran 6 minute pace and pair of 
structures versus 6 minute pace 

769
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:46,400
and pair of alpha flies, I mean 
my heart rate's significantly 

770
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,200
lower. 
I mean, there's, there's no 

771
00:43:48,200 --> 00:43:50,920
doubt about it, like they work 
and they help you a lot. 

772
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:54,320
You know, I think they, they 
help you a lot on reps the 

773
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:57,280
intervals. 
But again, like if you're 

774
00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:02,520
running, if you're running reps 
at, at let's say 520 pace, if 

775
00:44:02,520 --> 00:44:04,760
you're doing that in training 
shoes, it's a lot harder than if

776
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:07,160
you're running in a pair of 
super shoes. 

777
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:10,960
And so you got to kind of try to
adjust for that, you know, and 

778
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:13,360
in in your training, you know, 
you need to run a little faster 

779
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:16,720
in super shoes or sometimes be 
OK with like, Hey, I'm getting a

780
00:44:16,720 --> 00:44:19,640
little bit more protection or I 
know this is going to be harder 

781
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,760
muscularly, you know, wearing a 
pair of trainers, but you're 

782
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:26,760
building strength and that 
strength is going to help you 

783
00:44:26,760 --> 00:44:29,240
when you go transition into a 
super shoe. 

784
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:31,960
You know, like if you ran in 
sand all the time, it's going to

785
00:44:31,960 --> 00:44:36,040
be really hard to run 520 pace 
on the beach and then you go 

786
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,720
stuff on concrete. 520 foot pace
is going to feel really easy if 

787
00:44:38,720 --> 00:44:40,120
all you've been doing is running
the sand. 

788
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,720
And you know, that's kind of how
I look at it with super shoes 

789
00:44:43,720 --> 00:44:45,840
and, and trainers and, and 
normal flats. 

790
00:44:45,840 --> 00:44:48,680
You know, there's, there's a 
place for all that in your 

791
00:44:48,680 --> 00:44:51,440
training. 
And, and I think that they are 

792
00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,920
great super shoes. 
I'm a huge proponent of them, 

793
00:44:54,920 --> 00:44:58,360
but you can't be doing 
everything in them because you 

794
00:44:58,360 --> 00:45:01,280
need to work on these these 
other things too and and get 

795
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,960
that extra protection. 
You know that that comes with 

796
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,760
wearing a training shoe all. 
Right. 

797
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:12,080
So thinking specifically about 
Chicago now, you've won it, so 

798
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:15,680
probably pretty good idea of 
what the course is like. 

799
00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:21,320
What do you do in preparation 
for Chicago differently than, 

800
00:45:21,320 --> 00:45:26,200
say, Boston? 
Yeah, I mean anything, to be 

801
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:28,160
honest, I think sometimes like 
people make a little too much 

802
00:45:28,160 --> 00:45:31,720
out of courses. 
Like there's not like if it's a 

803
00:45:31,720 --> 00:45:33,760
really technical course, you 
know, Boston is a little bit 

804
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:35,760
different because there is so 
much downhill. 

805
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:39,800
There's so much uphill like you 
have to train for that and you 

806
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,920
have to get used to that. 
You know, like for getting ready

807
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:46,960
for Boston, I did a lot of 
downhill running like you know, 

808
00:45:46,960 --> 00:45:50,120
I would either put my treadmill 
down, I think it goes to a -, 3%

809
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:53,320
grade. 
In the past I've like put just 

810
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,560
stacked like 2 by fours on the 
back of a treadmill like legs to

811
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,880
put it on a downhill incline. 
I. 

812
00:45:59,880 --> 00:46:02,160
Love the idea of you having to 
do that. 

813
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,520
Like in my mind that's what I 
should be doing or like that's 

814
00:46:05,520 --> 00:46:08,160
what the rest of us are doing. 
And the fact that you also are 

815
00:46:08,160 --> 00:46:10,600
doing that same thing to prepare
for Boston is great. 

816
00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,360
You, you make it work with, with
what you've got, you know, and, 

817
00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:16,480
but the important thing is that 
you just get your, you got to 

818
00:46:16,480 --> 00:46:18,440
get your quads used to that, you
know, I don't care. 

819
00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,840
You can lift, you know, you can 
do these other things, but 

820
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,200
there's no substitute for 
getting used to running downhill

821
00:46:26,200 --> 00:46:30,160
than than running downhill. 
And you know, I, I live kind of 

822
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:33,880
on a big hill where, you know, 
it's like 2 miles straight down.

823
00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:36,000
And so a lot of times, you know,
if I was getting ready for 

824
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,760
Boston, I will start just 
running down that hill. 

825
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,440
I'll do some stuff at Nike and 
then I'll run back up a bit. 

826
00:46:43,480 --> 00:46:47,320
And so, you know, I think I 
guess to answer your question, 

827
00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,320
that's like it's core specific 
as as I would get. 

828
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:54,200
But Chicago, the nice thing 
about it is like it's so flat. 

829
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:57,000
There's there's no hills there. 
You don't really need to worry 

830
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,760
about that. 
The biggest thing on a course 

831
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:02,760
like that is just getting fit, 
you know, you know, I think 

832
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,520
definitely still do some hills. 
They're just good for you. 

833
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:06,760
You know, they're good for your 
mechanics. 

834
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:09,360
They're good for sprinting and 
power in training. 

835
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,280
Like I think you sent over one 
day, you did some hill reps, 

836
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:14,320
then you did some some 2 
hundreds or three hundreds after

837
00:47:14,320 --> 00:47:16,040
that. 
Like that stuff's great. 

838
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:19,880
But Chicago is essentially like 
3 out and backs, but it's 

839
00:47:19,880 --> 00:47:22,360
pancake flat. 
The biggest hill you get is like

840
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:25,920
800 meters from the finish line 
and it's going over and 

841
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:28,360
overpass. 
And so, you know, I don't think 

842
00:47:28,360 --> 00:47:30,840
that you have to worry about 
that or do anything. 

843
00:47:31,160 --> 00:47:35,480
Just a specific, you know, when 
I was, when I went to Chicago in

844
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,400
2017, I think I ran the last 
like mile or two. 

845
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,800
But you know, when I started out
in the marathon, that's as much 

846
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,560
as I ever saw of any course I 
ran before. 

847
00:47:44,600 --> 00:47:47,560
Before I actually, yeah. 
You just kind of showed up and 

848
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:51,360
you're usually from the Google 
Maps. 

849
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:53,880
Yeah, they're not even worrying 
about that. 

850
00:47:53,880 --> 00:47:57,120
You know, I kind of look at 
roughly elevation profile. 

851
00:47:57,120 --> 00:47:59,680
But like, you know, for the 
trials in LA, yeah, it was 

852
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,440
pancake flat there. 
You know, there's not, you know,

853
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:04,280
everybody was talking about all 
these like 180 turns or things 

854
00:48:04,280 --> 00:48:07,080
like that. 
It's like, OK, maybe I'll lose a

855
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:10,880
second or two by not cutting 
fast around this corner, but you

856
00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:12,000
know what? 
I'm going to gain a hell of a 

857
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,360
lot more about being in great 
shape and running hard for those

858
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,880
other 26 miles than worrying 
about this one silly little turn

859
00:48:18,880 --> 00:48:21,080
in there. 
I just Have you ever. 

860
00:48:22,240 --> 00:48:24,440
Done like the Japanese turn 
around a cone. 

861
00:48:24,720 --> 00:48:27,040
You know how they do like the 
the the little spin? 

862
00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,440
I haven't seen that, no. 
I'll have to check that out. 

863
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,120
I've seen the Japanese guys do 
that before. 

864
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,600
Instead of just like turning 
left the entire time, they do 

865
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,600
like a weird 180 flip in the 
middle. 

866
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:43,040
I mean, if I got to like, I was 
worried about breaking a record 

867
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:46,280
or like, Oh my gosh, if only I 
was able to run that 180 turn 

868
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:48,000
better. 
Like, we're in a pretty good 

869
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:50,160
spot if that's the biggest thing
you got to worry about getting 

870
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:57,200
ready for a marathon. 
In terms of between now and race

871
00:48:57,200 --> 00:49:02,000
day, I'm sure that you have like
a couple workouts that you know 

872
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:06,080
you need to do that you want me 
to do because if you're doing 

873
00:49:06,080 --> 00:49:09,080
it, I would like to do it. 
What are like the key indicator 

874
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:13,080
workouts that it's like it's a 
must you do it every cycle? 

875
00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:17,960
Yeah, I mean, honestly, like 
running hard for 20 miles, like 

876
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:21,920
just straight through is 
probably a a real stable workout

877
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:26,000
for the marathon, you know, and 
and I will run basically right 

878
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:28,200
around marathon pace for for 20 
miles. 

879
00:49:28,760 --> 00:49:31,480
You know, I might warm up a mile
really easy and, and do that, 

880
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:34,480
but there, I'll probably do that
a couple times. 

881
00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,960
You know, getting ready for a 
marathon, you obviously need to 

882
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,080
make sure that you space that 
one out, you know, make sure 

883
00:49:42,080 --> 00:49:44,000
you're not getting too close to 
race day. 

884
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,040
And you know where we've got 9 
weeks, You know, we're kind of 

885
00:49:47,040 --> 00:49:49,040
getting to the point where if 
we're going to try to do 2 of 

886
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:53,600
them, yeah, you probably got to 
do it in the next couple weeks. 

887
00:49:53,960 --> 00:50:00,200
But again, there is there's no 
better way to just replicate 

888
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:04,680
that feeling of being dead and 
running hard then then running 

889
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,240
hard for, for 20 miles. 
You know, I think that's 

890
00:50:07,240 --> 00:50:10,800
probably the single best workout
that you can do. 

891
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:14,840
You know, some other things that
we've done, You know, if I'm 

892
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,120
going to run like a long run 
hard is sometimes I might run 

893
00:50:18,200 --> 00:50:21,960
3-4 miles, you know, just 
warming up moderate and then 

894
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:26,160
getting straight into like going
like mile on mile off. 

895
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,200
Or sometimes I'll do 2 miles on 
mile off, you know, where I'm 

896
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:34,600
running pretty close to race 
pace and then back off to, you 

897
00:50:34,600 --> 00:50:37,320
know, still faster than I would 
do an easy run. 

898
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:44,240
You know, for me that might mean
like my offs are five 15520 

899
00:50:44,240 --> 00:50:47,560
pace. 
My ONS might be, you know, four 

900
00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:53,320
45450 pace and and alternating 
back and forth for that for 

901
00:50:53,360 --> 00:50:54,640
like. 
For how many miles do you do 

902
00:50:54,640 --> 00:51:00,240
that? 
You know, I've gone like 222425 

903
00:51:00,280 --> 00:51:02,920
doing that. 
It just, yeah, kind of depends 

904
00:51:02,920 --> 00:51:05,520
on what, you know, MM wants me 
to do. 

905
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:10,120
But definitely in that range, 
you know, that's a that's been 

906
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:14,840
something that I've done a lot 
of and and those if you're 

907
00:51:14,840 --> 00:51:16,720
looking at one single work, I 
was going to give you your 

908
00:51:16,720 --> 00:51:19,080
biggest bang for your buck, I 
would say it's it's those. 

909
00:51:21,400 --> 00:51:24,240
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910
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923
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924
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940
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Something that I remember, I 
feel like it's happened a few 

941
00:53:16,440 --> 00:53:19,440
times in your career is you go 
out and you run like 1/2 

942
00:53:19,440 --> 00:53:22,480
marathon in the middle of a 
build up and then you run a 

943
00:53:22,480 --> 00:53:25,760
marathon weeks later at the same
pace or so. 

944
00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:31,000
Like it seems like you have to 
do a race in the build up, but 

945
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:32,920
you don't put that much stock 
into it. 

946
00:53:33,960 --> 00:53:35,960
Is that fair to say that that's 
happened before? 

947
00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:38,000
Am I remember it correctly like?
It's happened. 

948
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,000
I mean, honestly, like I've had 
some really bad half marathons. 

949
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,240
Like that wasn't intentional. 
Like, oh, I'm just trying to 

950
00:53:43,240 --> 00:53:45,640
jog. 
Like I just for whatever reason 

951
00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:47,480
did not rumble. 
Like I would have loved to have 

952
00:53:47,480 --> 00:53:49,240
run several minutes faster than 
those. 

953
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,880
So, yeah, that I wouldn't say 
this by design. 

954
00:53:54,880 --> 00:53:57,360
You know, I'm trying to run 
those things hard and, you know,

955
00:53:57,360 --> 00:54:00,760
it's, it is tough to do that. 
You know, I think 1/2 marathon 

956
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:04,400
is a lot closer to like coming 
from a 10K background on the 

957
00:54:04,400 --> 00:54:07,120
track. 
Like is way easier to run fast 

958
00:54:07,120 --> 00:54:10,080
for 1/2 marathon than than when 
you're in the middle of marathon

959
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:12,040
training and then trying to run 
really hard. 

960
00:54:13,720 --> 00:54:18,360
It's just the volume and the, 
the, you know, you just kind of 

961
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:21,400
beat up from doing that marathon
stuff and, and you have so much 

962
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:23,680
more speed when you're coming 
from the track or 10K. 

963
00:54:24,840 --> 00:54:28,520
But the reason that I like 
racing is just, again, it's, 

964
00:54:28,520 --> 00:54:32,280
it's getting that feeling of 
just working really hard for a 

965
00:54:32,280 --> 00:54:34,640
really long time. 
And you know, again, those 

966
00:54:34,640 --> 00:54:39,160
haven't always gone the way that
I've hoped, but it's really good

967
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:45,720
for me mentally to just remember
like how hard this is and get 

968
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:48,960
that feeling of being out there.
And even if you got to slog it 

969
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:51,840
out, you know, those last couple
miles and a half marathon, 

970
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,800
knowing that that's going to 
serve you really well when you 

971
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:58,320
actually are like rested and 
tapered and, and ready for a 

972
00:54:58,320 --> 00:55:02,280
marathon. 
It's so there's a physical part,

973
00:55:02,280 --> 00:55:04,720
but a lot of it for me is is 
mental too. 

974
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:08,920
Should I do a race or can I 
replicate something in training?

975
00:55:09,720 --> 00:55:13,280
I think a race would be ideal. 
You know, if you if you can't 

976
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:17,000
get someone or you can't do one,
then yeah, like go in training 

977
00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,160
and and try to just run one on 
your own. 

978
00:55:19,160 --> 00:55:23,720
But there's, there's no workout 
that's, that can simulate a 

979
00:55:23,720 --> 00:55:26,760
race, you know, and, and even, 
you know, I'll say when I was 

980
00:55:26,760 --> 00:55:28,760
running on the track and then 
you probably know this too, like

981
00:55:29,560 --> 00:55:32,360
running some 8 hundreds, even if
you got your ass kicked like was

982
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:33,800
going to help you run a great 
mile. 

983
00:55:33,880 --> 00:55:37,160
And, and sometimes that's just 
the necessary part of doing it. 

984
00:55:37,160 --> 00:55:40,000
You got to look at the end game 
and you know, the end game's 

985
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,360
running a great marathon. 
I think if you could get in, you

986
00:55:43,360 --> 00:55:46,920
know, even a, a, you know, 
15K20K half marathon, if you can

987
00:55:46,920 --> 00:55:51,240
get one or two of those in, like
there's no, no workout or no 

988
00:55:51,240 --> 00:55:54,000
better trading, that is going to
be a better substitute than than

989
00:55:54,000 --> 00:56:00,160
going out there and race. 
In terms of fueling in workouts,

990
00:56:01,080 --> 00:56:04,280
do you fuel just is anything 
different? 

991
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:08,360
Do you test things out? 
I mean, something to know is 

992
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:13,480
like, I have a pretty mediocre 
stomach, you know, like I, I, I 

993
00:56:15,320 --> 00:56:18,160
don't drink that much water 
during long runs because I 

994
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:20,240
cramp. 
I if I get a couple gels in, 

995
00:56:20,240 --> 00:56:23,000
it's good. 
How do you approach it? 

996
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:24,360
And like, how do I just get 
better at it? 

997
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:27,160
Yeah, I mean, I think that 
that's something I'm, I'm glad 

998
00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:30,360
you brought that up because, you
know, training your gut I think 

999
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,880
is, is a very real thing and, 
and something that, you know, is

1000
00:56:33,880 --> 00:56:36,800
going to help you tremendously 
when you go run Chicago. 

1001
00:56:36,880 --> 00:56:39,000
But you got to start doing it 
now and you got to practice it 

1002
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:41,640
regularly. 
It's all the science and 

1003
00:56:41,640 --> 00:56:45,680
research and, you know, talking 
to various people like sports 

1004
00:56:45,680 --> 00:56:48,080
scientists and stuff. 
It's, it's absolutely something 

1005
00:56:48,080 --> 00:56:51,560
that you can train. 
You know, I was blessed with a 

1006
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,080
pretty good stomach. 
Like I can put down a lot of 

1007
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:56,080
liquid, I can put down a lot of 
calories. 

1008
00:56:56,080 --> 00:56:59,840
It just doesn't bother me, you 
know, like I can, I could eat 

1009
00:56:59,840 --> 00:57:03,120
dinner and go run 30 minutes 
afterwards and I'd be totally 

1010
00:57:03,120 --> 00:57:06,920
fine. 
But if your stomach, you 

1011
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:09,160
struggle with that or you 
struggle getting in like a lot 

1012
00:57:09,160 --> 00:57:13,280
of gels and stuff like start 
working that in on, on all your,

1013
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:14,960
you know, harder training 
sessions. 

1014
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:19,680
And that's something that I know
is becoming more of a, a thing 

1015
00:57:19,680 --> 00:57:22,320
now in distance running. 
Or is you're reading about 

1016
00:57:22,760 --> 00:57:25,240
people that are taking in lots 
of carbs. 

1017
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:28,760
You know, they're talking about,
you know, 100 / 100 grams of 

1018
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:33,000
carbs an hour. 
And, you know, I think that 

1019
00:57:33,000 --> 00:57:35,880
they're seeing there's a lot of 
big benefits in training, you 

1020
00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:38,680
know, to doing that. 
You're able to, to push a little

1021
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:40,480
bit harder when that tank is 
always full. 

1022
00:57:40,480 --> 00:57:43,080
And then you're also able to 
recover a lot better when you're

1023
00:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,040
taking in, you know, a lot of 
nutrition and, and honestly, 

1024
00:57:46,040 --> 00:57:51,920
that is something that I was not
very good at doing a lot of 

1025
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:54,720
times when I was running, you 
know, I, it used to be like I 

1026
00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:58,040
never drank, never did anything 
unless I was running 20 miles or

1027
00:57:58,040 --> 00:58:01,840
longer, you know, before that, I
never stopped to do any of that.

1028
00:58:02,640 --> 00:58:05,840
I was talking to a friend the 
other day and we're we're 

1029
00:58:05,840 --> 00:58:08,200
talking to like a younger guy 
who just graduated college and 

1030
00:58:08,200 --> 00:58:10,520
he's saying like, you know, all 
the things that they do now. 

1031
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:14,040
And it was like, why did it 
never cross my mind to just take

1032
00:58:14,040 --> 00:58:16,200
a gel in the middle of a 15 mile
day? 

1033
00:58:16,680 --> 00:58:19,240
Like just because it was on the 
track, it just never clicked 

1034
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:23,400
that you should be fueling. 
And it's now looking back, it's 

1035
00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,960
like, how did we all miss it? 
Seems so obvious. 

1036
00:58:26,240 --> 00:58:29,400
Yeah, I, I know. 
And you're spot on with that. 

1037
00:58:29,400 --> 00:58:32,120
I mean, it we looking back, 
you're kind of being an idiot. 

1038
00:58:32,120 --> 00:58:34,160
Like we're just running and 
running and running and not 

1039
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,240
taking anything yet. 
I mean, there were times I was 

1040
00:58:36,240 --> 00:58:38,760
like, yeah, I'd bring a Gatorade
or something and sip on that, 

1041
00:58:38,760 --> 00:58:42,080
but I would not even get that 
down even for most workouts. 

1042
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:44,920
I just didn't drink a lot and 
you know, it's so. 

1043
00:58:45,040 --> 00:58:47,000
Funny. 
Yeah, it is. 

1044
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:51,240
And you know, I was, I was at a 
meeting with some other, you 

1045
00:58:51,240 --> 00:58:55,560
know, it was mostly like kind of
like trail athletes or ultra 

1046
00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:57,160
athletes. 
I think there was a triathlete 

1047
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:58,440
in there. 
And, you know, they're talking 

1048
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,280
about nutrition and they're 
asking me what I did for the 

1049
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,600
first couple marathons that I 
ran. 

1050
00:59:02,600 --> 00:59:04,360
And I was like, all I did was 
cut power. 

1051
00:59:04,440 --> 00:59:07,000
Like there was no specific 
formula. 

1052
00:59:07,000 --> 00:59:11,000
Like I took a, went to 711, 
bought a Powerade and had half 

1053
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:13,480
water, half Powerade. 
And that's what I put in my 

1054
00:59:13,480 --> 00:59:17,880
bottles for like, I think the 
first 3 marathons, maybe four. 

1055
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,640
Yeah. 
And they, it's like these kids, 

1056
00:59:20,800 --> 00:59:22,200
I mean, they're all about yard. 
It's like kids. 

1057
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:25,640
But you know, I'm 40 now. 
So they seem like kids to me 

1058
00:59:25,640 --> 00:59:28,240
when they're in their early 20s.
But they're like, it was like 

1059
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:32,200
unfathomable to them that like 
someone that a human body could 

1060
00:59:32,200 --> 00:59:35,440
even function doing that. 
So it's it's definitely come a 

1061
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,840
long ways, but you know, 
between. 

1062
00:59:39,120 --> 00:59:42,960
Picking up Powerades before 
marathons at 711 and putting 

1063
00:59:42,960 --> 00:59:44,640
plywood underneath your 
treadmill. 

1064
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:49,720
Pretty blue collar, you know. 
I know we, we have a lot of toys

1065
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:53,800
for sure, but we, you know, you 
just get it done with with what 

1066
00:59:53,800 --> 00:59:55,760
you have. 
We did a lot of that too all. 

1067
00:59:57,240 --> 01:00:00,560
Right. 
So 40 years old versus 30 years 

1068
01:00:00,560 --> 01:00:02,880
old. 
I'm 35 and part of the 

1069
01:00:02,880 --> 01:00:06,320
motivation for me like getting 
somewhat serious as I feel like 

1070
01:00:06,320 --> 01:00:08,680
I'm at that age still. 
Like I have a small window here 

1071
01:00:08,680 --> 01:00:10,760
where like age isn't an excuse 
yet. 

1072
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:17,240
Is 40 different than 30? 
Like is that an excuse for you 

1073
01:00:17,240 --> 01:00:19,080
yet? 
Like or is that in your mind you

1074
01:00:19,080 --> 01:00:22,240
feel different? 
Like is it an advantage because 

1075
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:25,560
now you have extra thousands of 
miles and like, how do you 

1076
01:00:25,560 --> 01:00:27,160
approach it? 
Or you just don't even think 

1077
01:00:27,160 --> 01:00:28,840
about it? 
You feel 20 still. 

1078
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:32,280
No, I definitely don't feel 20. 
I think like mentally or like I 

1079
01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,440
have a sense of humor of a 20 
year old, but my body certainly 

1080
01:00:35,440 --> 01:00:39,800
does not feel like it's it when 
I was 20 or 25 and I just I I 

1081
01:00:39,800 --> 01:00:41,440
don't recover, you know, like I 
do. 

1082
01:00:41,440 --> 01:00:43,880
It just, it takes me a little 
bit longer and I used to be able

1083
01:00:43,960 --> 01:00:47,200
to Sprint all out and, you know,
run some pretty, you know, 

1084
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,840
intense workouts and come back 
two days later and, and be 

1085
01:00:49,840 --> 01:00:52,200
totally fine. 
And, you know, that's one of the

1086
01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:56,320
things I think as I've gotten 
older is I just have to be more 

1087
01:00:56,440 --> 01:00:59,680
cognizant and, and better about,
you know, being honest with 

1088
01:00:59,680 --> 01:01:01,440
myself and being honest with 
Mike. 

1089
01:01:01,440 --> 01:01:05,040
And you know, it's again, he's, 
he's helped me tremendously 

1090
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,560
talking through and, and 
reminding me like, it's OK to 

1091
01:01:08,560 --> 01:01:10,600
take an extra day here and 
there. 

1092
01:01:10,960 --> 01:01:13,440
You know, you're, you're going 
to get so much more out of 

1093
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:17,360
taking one more easy day and 
running a better workout than 

1094
01:01:17,360 --> 01:01:20,960
trying to cram more mediocre 
workouts in where you're not 

1095
01:01:20,960 --> 01:01:25,560
able to hit the times or you're 
not able to, you know, do as 

1096
01:01:25,560 --> 01:01:28,240
much volume. 
Like let's, let's get the most 

1097
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,000
out of these hard days and, and 
keep those the priority. 

1098
01:01:31,400 --> 01:01:34,240
Everything else, you know, 
we'll, we'll kind of work around

1099
01:01:34,240 --> 01:01:37,360
around that. 
And, you know, I think that 

1100
01:01:37,760 --> 01:01:42,080
certainly for a while, the, the 
speed stuff used to come so easy

1101
01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:43,560
to me. 
I mean, I used to be able to 

1102
01:01:44,080 --> 01:01:47,240
Sprint all the time and, and 
that gets a little bit harder as

1103
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:51,440
you age, but part of that too is
you running a marathon. 

1104
01:01:51,440 --> 01:01:53,840
You're just further away from 
that stuff that you're doing on 

1105
01:01:53,840 --> 01:01:56,480
the track. 
But I would argue that it's, 

1106
01:01:56,480 --> 01:01:59,600
it's more important as you get 
older to keep lifting hard, to 

1107
01:01:59,600 --> 01:02:03,440
keep doing plyometrics, to keep 
sprinting, you know, and putting

1108
01:02:03,440 --> 01:02:08,400
your body in those maximum 
ranges of motion that, you know,

1109
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:11,800
a lot of people, I think just 
don't hit when they start trying

1110
01:02:11,800 --> 01:02:14,480
to run for a marathon. 
And, you know, it's, it's one of

1111
01:02:14,480 --> 01:02:17,920
those things like on an extreme 
level, you look at, you know, 

1112
01:02:17,920 --> 01:02:20,680
when, when my grandparents were 
still alive, you know, and they 

1113
01:02:20,680 --> 01:02:23,400
stopped getting up and walking 
and they just were sitting all 

1114
01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:25,640
the time. 
You just, you know, you see 

1115
01:02:25,840 --> 01:02:28,920
their bodies kind of shrivel up 
a little bit because they stop 

1116
01:02:28,920 --> 01:02:31,480
using them. 
And, and that's an extreme 

1117
01:02:31,480 --> 01:02:34,240
example. 
But if you stop sprinting and 

1118
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:37,440
you stop getting to those like 
extreme positions that you do 

1119
01:02:37,440 --> 01:02:39,920
when you're running really hard 
on the track because you think, 

1120
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,520
oh, I'm running a marathon, all 
I have to do is long and slow 

1121
01:02:42,520 --> 01:02:45,080
stuff all the time. 
Like you will start to lose 

1122
01:02:45,080 --> 01:02:48,360
that. 
And so I think as you get older 

1123
01:02:48,360 --> 01:02:52,360
it, it becomes more important to
keep working on that speed and 

1124
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:55,560
power and, and keep that 
elasticity in your muscles and 

1125
01:02:55,560 --> 01:02:58,680
your tendons, your ligaments 
that you naturally have when 

1126
01:02:58,680 --> 01:03:00,360
you're 20. 
And you don't necessarily have 

1127
01:03:00,360 --> 01:03:03,400
to work on, you know, when 
you're 20, your bigger 

1128
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:05,880
deficiency is probably your 
cardiovascular system just 

1129
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:08,040
'cause you're young and, you 
know, you just haven't run that 

1130
01:03:08,040 --> 01:03:11,240
many miles. 
And, you know, I would say it 

1131
01:03:11,240 --> 01:03:15,040
just generally, I think that, 
you know, you seeing a lot of 

1132
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:17,440
kids now doing more threshold 
stuff and they're getting a 

1133
01:03:17,440 --> 01:03:19,960
tremendous bang for their buck 
because naturally they still 

1134
01:03:19,960 --> 01:03:22,680
have all this speed and power 
that that just comes from being 

1135
01:03:22,680 --> 01:03:25,800
young. 
But at a certain point, your 

1136
01:03:25,800 --> 01:03:30,000
cardiovascular system starts 
becoming your your bigger asset 

1137
01:03:30,080 --> 01:03:32,920
because you've just run for a 
really, really long time. 

1138
01:03:32,960 --> 01:03:36,800
You know, my cardiovascular 
system now at 40 is probably a 

1139
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,880
lot better than it was at 20 
because I've had so many years 

1140
01:03:40,880 --> 01:03:44,040
of running so many miles and, 
and doing all this stuff and, 

1141
01:03:44,360 --> 01:03:46,800
and for a marathon, you know, 
that's a great thing. 

1142
01:03:47,200 --> 01:03:50,520
But the challenge for me is 
still doing more of the speed 

1143
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,280
stuff and those really intense 
workouts, you know, running 8 

1144
01:03:53,280 --> 01:03:57,280
hundreds, you know, in, in 2 
minutes or two O 2 or two O 4. 

1145
01:03:57,280 --> 01:04:02,760
Like those aren't as easy for me
now as they were when I was 2025

1146
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,320
years old. 
And I could knock those out all 

1147
01:04:04,320 --> 01:04:06,680
day. 
So I, I think at some point it 

1148
01:04:06,680 --> 01:04:10,120
kind of flips where your, your 
bigger asset becomes your heart.

1149
01:04:10,600 --> 01:04:13,240
You know, again, I mentioned 
earlier, I, I don't think your 

1150
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:17,280
heart distinguishes what type of
exercise it's getting, when it's

1151
01:04:17,280 --> 01:04:20,240
beating and it's working hard, 
whether you're running, your 

1152
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:23,640
cycling, all that, it's 
continuing, your cardiovascular 

1153
01:04:23,640 --> 01:04:27,000
system is continuing to develop.
And so that becomes a major 

1154
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,720
asset the older you get because 
you've had all these years of, 

1155
01:04:29,720 --> 01:04:32,680
of doing all this stuff to get 
your heart better. 

1156
01:04:33,080 --> 01:04:36,880
But I would say that's why it's 
super important when you mention

1157
01:04:36,880 --> 01:04:39,600
your training and just trying to
extend things out. 

1158
01:04:40,280 --> 01:04:43,320
Yeah, we got to work on 
endurance, but we can't neglect 

1159
01:04:43,360 --> 01:04:47,160
sprinting and doing that speed 
and power stuff because that 

1160
01:04:47,160 --> 01:04:49,520
gets harder to do. 
And the the older you get and 

1161
01:04:49,520 --> 01:04:51,880
the further away you get from 
doing it where you go long 

1162
01:04:51,880 --> 01:04:54,480
periods without doing it, 
really, really hard to get that 

1163
01:04:54,480 --> 01:04:55,320
back. 
So. 

1164
01:04:55,520 --> 01:04:59,080
All right. 
It sounds like things have been 

1165
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,240
going pretty well for you in 
this build up. 

1166
01:05:02,240 --> 01:05:04,800
I mean you're coming off 2O8IN 
Boston. 

1167
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:09,360
Is it fair to say things are 
going better even now as you 

1168
01:05:09,360 --> 01:05:13,160
lead into Chicago? 
Absolutely 100% yeah. 

1169
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:15,960
I mean like my, my workouts have
been a lot better. 

1170
01:05:15,960 --> 01:05:19,640
You know, I've been able to run 
better speed, work better, you 

1171
01:05:19,640 --> 01:05:21,920
know, kind of those moderate 
intervals, those, you know, 8 

1172
01:05:21,920 --> 01:05:26,400
hundreds KS miles, like those 
are all faster as a whole than 

1173
01:05:26,400 --> 01:05:29,480
what I was doing before Boston. 
And I'm running more miles. 

1174
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,760
You know, I I don't think I ever
ran more than 100 miles before 

1175
01:05:32,760 --> 01:05:37,000
Boston and a week. 
And and that was by design. 

1176
01:05:37,120 --> 01:05:41,040
You know, again, I'm coming back
from, you know, some, some rough

1177
01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:44,520
surgeries and just issues with 
my body and my health. 

1178
01:05:44,520 --> 01:05:47,800
And you know, we, we said, you 
know, mileage has got to be 

1179
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:49,920
secondary right now. 
We've got to hit these workouts 

1180
01:05:49,920 --> 01:05:53,280
because if you can't run these 
paces like you got no chance 

1181
01:05:53,280 --> 01:05:55,120
going into a marathon if you 
can't run these paces. 

1182
01:05:55,120 --> 01:05:59,280
So let's focus on hitting these 
paces that you need to hit in, 

1183
01:05:59,280 --> 01:06:02,320
in your hard sessions and and 
keep the mileage down. 

1184
01:06:02,880 --> 01:06:05,760
And then after that build, you 
know, Mike and I were talking 

1185
01:06:05,760 --> 01:06:07,920
and it's like, all right, now 
it's time to start up in the 

1186
01:06:07,920 --> 01:06:09,520
volume and trying to get a 
little bit more. 

1187
01:06:09,520 --> 01:06:12,840
And so now I'm doing more in 
this build where, you know, I've

1188
01:06:12,840 --> 01:06:17,800
been up at 1:10 to 1:20 just 
outside miles and then some 

1189
01:06:17,800 --> 01:06:20,920
cross training on top of that. 
And so things have been going 

1190
01:06:20,920 --> 01:06:23,280
significantly better. 
And and you know, that's as an 

1191
01:06:23,280 --> 01:06:26,040
athlete, that's exciting when 
you can look at it and say, I 

1192
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,480
ran two O 8 and my, my speed 
works better. 

1193
01:06:29,480 --> 01:06:31,800
My my training, my workouts are 
better and I'm doing more 

1194
01:06:31,800 --> 01:06:33,880
volume. 
So, you know, logically you 

1195
01:06:33,880 --> 01:06:35,840
would say, yeah, I'm in a lot 
better shape heading into 

1196
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:40,000
Chicago. 
So I guess final parting 

1197
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:44,840
thoughts for me, how are we 
feeling is 2/22? 

1198
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:51,400
Can you get me there? 
And well, how, how do you feel 

1199
01:06:51,400 --> 01:06:54,120
about our current trajectory or 
like what you're being handed 

1200
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:58,320
over right now? 
I feel good, you know, I I think

1201
01:06:58,320 --> 01:06:59,920
that you you got, you got a good
base. 

1202
01:06:59,920 --> 01:07:03,240
Yeah, I think that again, if we 
can start hitting those long 

1203
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:05,600
runs, because it sounds to me 
from talking to you like your, 

1204
01:07:05,600 --> 01:07:07,120
your biggest concern is just 
endurance. 

1205
01:07:07,120 --> 01:07:09,680
You know, it's the speed work. 
You said you can still, you 

1206
01:07:09,680 --> 01:07:12,000
know, fake that stuff and and 
still run fast. 

1207
01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:15,160
So you still got good speed. 
Like I think we need to touch on

1208
01:07:15,160 --> 01:07:18,320
that every once in a while. 
But the endurance is going to be

1209
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:21,720
be the big thing, you know, and 
if you can consistently keep 

1210
01:07:21,720 --> 01:07:25,040
your mileage, you know, up what 
you're talking about 7075, if 

1211
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,240
you can like getting some extra 
cross training in, whatever that

1212
01:07:28,240 --> 01:07:31,120
is, you know, if it's going on a
bike ride or if it's going on, 

1213
01:07:31,480 --> 01:07:34,120
you know, wearing a weight vest 
and walking or going on a 

1214
01:07:34,120 --> 01:07:37,160
Stairmaster, whatever it is like
that's only going to help you. 

1215
01:07:37,280 --> 01:07:40,840
And I think that those are very 
low impact activities that 

1216
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,760
aren't going to add to more 
pounding and stress on your 

1217
01:07:43,760 --> 01:07:46,800
body. 
And then again, doing those long

1218
01:07:46,800 --> 01:07:48,200
runs are going to be huge for 
you. 

1219
01:07:48,680 --> 01:07:53,120
I think just psychologically 
those are going to give you more

1220
01:07:53,120 --> 01:07:56,160
confidence than than any track 
workout you're going to do. 

1221
01:07:56,160 --> 01:08:00,040
So keep the priority on those. 
You know, do several of them 

1222
01:08:00,040 --> 01:08:01,200
hard. 
You know, maybe like we're 

1223
01:08:01,200 --> 01:08:05,000
saying, 1 is just time on feet 
where you're running 2025 miles.

1224
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:09,400
The next one, maybe you're doing
a little bit more focused where 

1225
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:12,880
you're adding in some fast 
stuff, but getting used to that 

1226
01:08:12,880 --> 01:08:16,240
feeling of being out there for a
long time and running hard 

1227
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,640
towards the end of being on your
feet for a long time is going to

1228
01:08:19,640 --> 01:08:22,120
serve you so well. 
And, and you know, one other 

1229
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:25,960
thing I think that I want to 
bring up that I really want to 

1230
01:08:25,960 --> 01:08:29,000
encourage you to do is just 
spend some time each day 

1231
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:33,800
mentally like thinking about 
this, like going over, I've said

1232
01:08:33,800 --> 01:08:36,640
this before, but if you can just
have like a couple goals, like 

1233
01:08:36,640 --> 01:08:38,880
2, three goals heading into 
every training session, like 

1234
01:08:38,880 --> 01:08:41,640
what's your goal for today? 
Is it, is it, you know, I'm 

1235
01:08:41,640 --> 01:08:43,600
trying to work on my speed, I'm 
trying to work on my power 

1236
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,000
efficiency, I'm trying to work 
on my endurance, I'm trying to 

1237
01:08:46,000 --> 01:08:49,439
work on recovery. 
Like remember what you're doing 

1238
01:08:49,439 --> 01:08:52,439
and have a purpose for every 
single day what you're going 

1239
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:53,160
out. 
It doesn't have to be 

1240
01:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,200
complicated, but give yourself 
two things, three things that 

1241
01:08:56,200 --> 01:08:58,040
you're going to try to work on 
for that one day. 

1242
01:08:58,399 --> 01:09:00,520
Even whether you know, could be 
something with your mechanics 

1243
01:09:00,520 --> 01:09:02,479
could be something with your 
mind too that you're going to 

1244
01:09:02,479 --> 01:09:06,479
concentrate on. 
And then afterwards, like put it

1245
01:09:06,479 --> 01:09:10,040
in the context every single day,
but take 510 minutes after 

1246
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:13,560
you're done and, and think about
how this is helping you for a 

1247
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,520
marathon. 
You know, I, I think that so 

1248
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,560
much and I know with me it just 
helped a lot. 

1249
01:09:19,560 --> 01:09:23,439
Like thinking about this stuff, 
you know, I probably obsessed 

1250
01:09:23,439 --> 01:09:27,240
over it most of the day. 
But the more you can start 

1251
01:09:27,479 --> 01:09:30,240
building yourself up and your 
confidence, you're going to get 

1252
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,560
the most confidence from 
reflecting on these concrete 

1253
01:09:32,560 --> 01:09:35,720
things you're doing in training.
So when you're doing a long run,

1254
01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:38,520
have a goal for it and then 
spend some time afterwards. 

1255
01:09:38,520 --> 01:09:40,840
And you doesn't mean you're 
going to hit your goals all the 

1256
01:09:40,840 --> 01:09:42,200
time. 
You know, you might die in one 

1257
01:09:42,200 --> 01:09:45,279
of these long runs, but you 
know, when you're having a hard 

1258
01:09:45,279 --> 01:09:49,160
day mentally or physically, I 
should say, make that a mental 

1259
01:09:49,160 --> 01:09:51,600
workout day. 
Like see how close you can get 

1260
01:09:52,399 --> 01:09:56,440
to your best that day, even if 
physically it's not there. 

1261
01:09:56,760 --> 01:09:59,920
And remind yourself afterwards 
be like, all right, this could 

1262
01:09:59,920 --> 01:10:02,000
be something that I'm going to 
deal with in the race. 

1263
01:10:02,000 --> 01:10:05,200
You know, when I'm out there 
doing a long run and I feel 

1264
01:10:05,200 --> 01:10:09,680
pretty bad at 15 miles in and I 
still have 5 miles to go or I 

1265
01:10:09,680 --> 01:10:13,520
still have 10 miles to go. 
Like practice working through 

1266
01:10:13,520 --> 01:10:15,120
that in your head. 
And, and when you mention 

1267
01:10:15,120 --> 01:10:17,400
headphones, you know, I think 
that for me, that's one of the 

1268
01:10:17,400 --> 01:10:20,440
big reasons I don't run with 
headphones a lot is it's 

1269
01:10:20,440 --> 01:10:24,600
important to be alone with your 
thoughts a lot and learn how to 

1270
01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:27,200
work through those. 
You know, you don't need a 

1271
01:10:27,200 --> 01:10:30,160
distraction all the time. 
Sometimes it's good. 

1272
01:10:30,280 --> 01:10:32,680
It's not a bad thing to run with
headphones any, you know, every 

1273
01:10:32,680 --> 01:10:36,520
once in a while, but you need to
learn to be alone with your 

1274
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:38,960
thoughts. 
And and those issues that come 

1275
01:10:38,960 --> 01:10:42,280
up during long training 
sessions, like those doubts are 

1276
01:10:42,280 --> 01:10:45,400
going to be there on race day. 
And you're the best way to 

1277
01:10:45,400 --> 01:10:49,360
prepare for them is, is facing 
them head on and working through

1278
01:10:49,360 --> 01:10:51,480
that in training. 
And then when you get there in a

1279
01:10:51,480 --> 01:10:54,680
race, you can say, hey, I've 
been here before. 

1280
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:57,880
Like I've worked through this. 
Yeah, I've chunked this up or I 

1281
01:10:57,880 --> 01:11:00,360
didn't think I could finish, but
I did this in these training 

1282
01:11:00,360 --> 01:11:03,520
sessions. 
And that is such AI think 

1283
01:11:03,520 --> 01:11:06,640
neglected thing that most people
be like, I just show up for a 

1284
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,760
workout, I hit it, that's it. 
You go home, you don't think 

1285
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:14,080
about it again, like everything 
needs to get put in the context 

1286
01:11:14,080 --> 01:11:16,680
of preparing you for a marathon,
good and bad. 

1287
01:11:17,160 --> 01:11:19,120
And that's how you know you 
learn from the bad. 

1288
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:21,640
You those are just learning 
opportunities where you say, 

1289
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:23,480
hey, what could I have done 
better? 

1290
01:11:23,480 --> 01:11:26,960
Why did I fail here? 
What can I do differently? 

1291
01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:28,640
And then you try that again the 
next time. 

1292
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:32,200
And it just it, it's again, 
everybody talks about your 

1293
01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:36,120
brain, it's a muscle that you 
need to keep training and you 

1294
01:11:36,120 --> 01:11:38,640
need to work on that mental side
too when you're going through 

1295
01:11:38,640 --> 01:11:42,360
this to get ready for Chicago. 
So that race day comes and, and 

1296
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:44,760
you're, you're already dialed in
because you've been doing this 

1297
01:11:44,760 --> 01:11:47,320
for 9 weeks now. 
It's not, oh, it's the week of 

1298
01:11:47,320 --> 01:11:49,360
the race now I got to really 
think about what I'm going to do

1299
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:51,880
and try to put all this stuff 
together a little bit. 

1300
01:11:51,880 --> 01:11:55,600
Each day is going to go such a 
long ways to preparing you when 

1301
01:11:55,600 --> 01:11:59,400
you have those you know 
difficult or doubtful moments in

1302
01:11:59,400 --> 01:12:01,320
a marathon in Chicago. 
You OK? 

1303
01:12:01,360 --> 01:12:02,800
It's been a while since I've 
been coached. 

1304
01:12:02,800 --> 01:12:07,400
I kind of like it, all right? 
I've just been messing around 

1305
01:12:07,400 --> 01:12:10,120
and now I'm getting like 
positive reinforcement from 

1306
01:12:10,120 --> 01:12:13,520
someone else besides myself. 
All right, so I'm, I was going 

1307
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:16,760
to run long tomorrow. 
Do you not to put you on the 

1308
01:12:16,760 --> 01:12:17,640
spot? 
Do you? 

1309
01:12:17,640 --> 01:12:19,760
Do you know what I should do or 
do you need to follow up? 

1310
01:12:21,080 --> 01:12:22,920
Well, how far were you thinking 
of going? 

1311
01:12:23,520 --> 01:12:26,280
You've gone 20. 
I was thinking of, I've gone 20,

1312
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:31,000
I was thinking of going 20 or 21
with some sort of tempo thing 

1313
01:12:31,000 --> 01:12:35,760
either at the end, maybe 
second-half, OK, somewhere in 

1314
01:12:35,760 --> 01:12:37,440
there. 
If you're, if you're going to 

1315
01:12:37,440 --> 01:12:40,000
run hard, let's not change too 
many variables at a time. 

1316
01:12:40,160 --> 01:12:43,320
You know, if you, if you've gone
20 before, but now you're going 

1317
01:12:43,320 --> 01:12:46,080
to do something hard at the end 
of it, let's stick with 20 

1318
01:12:46,080 --> 01:12:49,720
miles. 
Let's run, you know, let's say 

1319
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,600
anywhere from 12 to 15. 
Just make it like an honest 

1320
01:12:52,600 --> 01:12:55,800
effort, not hard, but not just 
jogging either. 

1321
01:12:55,800 --> 01:12:59,280
You know what you would do on a 
normal training run, Do that for

1322
01:12:59,280 --> 01:13:01,400
there. 
And then let's work on the last 

1323
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:03,840
five miles, like cutting down. 
You know, maybe you do something

1324
01:13:03,840 --> 01:13:08,760
where you know if you're doing 5
miles hard, you're going to run 

1325
01:13:09,600 --> 01:13:15,200
say 545-545-3055. 
Thirty. 

1326
01:13:15,920 --> 01:13:17,640
How many is that? 
Is that four? 

1327
01:13:18,040 --> 01:13:20,120
And then the last one, let's see
what you can do something like 

1328
01:13:20,120 --> 01:13:20,920
that. 
You know, where you're just 

1329
01:13:20,920 --> 01:13:23,760
cutting down gradually, but 
you're getting down to, to that 

1330
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:26,800
race pace and, you know, see 
what you got that last mile, 

1331
01:13:26,800 --> 01:13:28,920
It's OK to to push it. 
You know, one mile at the end is

1332
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:34,160
going to kill you or wreck you. 
And so but yeah, I think don't 

1333
01:13:34,160 --> 01:13:35,360
change too many variables at 
once. 

1334
01:13:35,360 --> 01:13:37,920
Let's not try to add distance 
and go longer than you've gone 

1335
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:39,920
before and add in something 
hard. 

1336
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:42,840
You know, that's that's kind of 
a recipe for disaster. 

1337
01:13:42,840 --> 01:13:46,360
So you know, stick to 20 on this
one, get some hard efforts in 

1338
01:13:46,360 --> 01:13:49,040
and then the next one, maybe 
we're just doing time on feet 

1339
01:13:49,040 --> 01:13:53,760
where you're going 2223 miles 
that day and then then you come 

1340
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:55,920
back and we're going to do 
something hard the next long 1 

1341
01:13:55,920 --> 01:13:59,000
you do after that. 
All right, sounds good. 

1342
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:00,360
I'll let you know how it goes. 
And. 

1343
01:14:00,920 --> 01:14:03,160
We'll we'll we'll check back in 
in the series at some point. 

1344
01:14:03,160 --> 01:14:08,320
We'll do here in the coming 
weeks and do another, I guess, 

1345
01:14:08,560 --> 01:14:11,520
public chat on how things are 
developing as we get closer to 

1346
01:14:11,520 --> 01:14:13,400
race day. 
But GAIL, this is awesome. 

1347
01:14:13,400 --> 01:14:15,960
I'm I'm pumped. 
I'm like, I was already 

1348
01:14:15,960 --> 01:14:19,840
relatively motivated but this is
definitely upping it all right? 

1349
01:14:19,840 --> 01:14:21,760
Well, hey, I'm here for you. 
This is going to be fun. 

1350
01:14:21,800 --> 01:14:24,200
We're going to we're going to 
get you down to low 220. 

1351
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:26,320
Let's just say that publicly. 
All right. 

1352
01:14:26,360 --> 01:14:30,240
If you need any advice for me, 
you know this could be a two way

1353
01:14:30,240 --> 01:14:32,360
thing, but I think you're in 
you're in good hands. 

1354
01:14:32,360 --> 01:14:33,720
With, yeah. 
So you can help me with the 

1355
01:14:33,720 --> 01:14:36,040
short stuff, then maybe I'll ask
you for some things on that. 

1356
01:14:36,280 --> 01:14:38,640
Although I can't fake it like 
you, I don't think anymore like 

1357
01:14:38,640 --> 01:14:40,600
I could. 
I don't know if I could fake it.

1358
01:14:40,600 --> 01:14:42,240
I might pull something real 
quick. 

1359
01:14:43,360 --> 01:14:44,520
Yeah. 
All right. 

1360
01:14:44,520 --> 01:14:46,440
Well, again, thanks so much. 
Appreciate it. 

1361
01:14:48,040 --> 01:14:50,000
We'll get ready for October. 
Let's do it. 

1362
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:51,280
All the best, man. 
All right. 

1363
01:14:51,920 --> 01:14:52,640
Thanks man. 
See ya.