1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,640 Always good people. Welcome back to the Light Minds 2 00:00:01,640 --> 00:00:04,240 podcast. Today's episode I'm joined by 3 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,920 Anthony Hutton, who is a keynote speaker and the founder of the 4 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:09,560 Never Throw in the Towel project. 5 00:00:09,880 --> 00:00:13,760 Back in 2005, Anthony won Big Brother, which at that moment 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:15,640 was one of the biggest TV shows around. 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,040 But what followed afterwards was an identity crisis and a period 8 00:00:20,040 --> 00:00:22,920 of his life where he was quietly wishing he wasn't here. 9 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,800 But fast forwards today, he's speaking companies like L'Oreal. 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:29,840 He gets to speak at football clubs, at prisons and he's taken 11 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:33,240 the concept of the Barber chair into these organisations to 12 00:00:33,240 --> 00:00:37,040 create a safe space where men can finally start opening up and 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,680 talking. I really enjoyed this episode. 14 00:00:39,680 --> 00:00:43,200 We went off in a, in a number of different ways and it was great 15 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:46,640 to see the journey of achieving this big thing, this famous 16 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:51,760 notoriety and being redirected by life to to do what he's he's 17 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,320 doing today. And I hope you enjoyed the 18 00:00:53,320 --> 00:00:56,800 conversation just as much as I enjoyed listening to it and and 19 00:00:56,800 --> 00:00:58,920 interviewing him. Before we get into the episode, 20 00:00:58,920 --> 00:01:00,960 the other thing that I have to ask is if you're not already, 21 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,320 then please be sure to follow or subscribe. 22 00:01:03,600 --> 00:01:06,760 It really helps me out and it helps you get the fresh episodes 23 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:08,560 whenever they're out every single week. 24 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,600 But without further ado, please welcome Anthony. 25 00:01:12,160 --> 00:01:15,560 Anthony, welcome to the show. Hello, welcome. 26 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,560 Well, why why am I saying welcome? 27 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:20,200 Thank you, thank you for having me. 28 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,600 I've got me on podcast, so I'm used to saying I'm just to say 29 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:27,800 and welcome. It's like when it's just rather, 30 00:01:27,800 --> 00:01:30,120 you know, when you go on a plane or someone has like, say, have a 31 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:31,800 have a good holiday and you say it back to them. 32 00:01:32,960 --> 00:01:37,800 I love that. Before we jump in the 33 00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:40,400 conversation, I'm I'm really excited about hearing your 34 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:41,480 story. I've done a little bit of 35 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,720 research before this. I ask my guests the question of 36 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,280 what is a like minded person to you? 37 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,200 So what sort of traits or characteristics or how would you 38 00:01:50,200 --> 00:01:51,600 describe someone that's like minded? 39 00:01:53,240 --> 00:01:55,200 Oh, that I don't think I've been asked that. 40 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,480 I've done a lot of podcasts. I'm a bit of a podcast slapper, 41 00:01:58,840 --> 00:02:06,320 but say like mine did not to me now is I think I know that I'm a 42 00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:11,039 dad. I think I've, you know, been a 43 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:17,160 been a good man and a good role model is, you know, extremely 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:20,560 important to me. So I think, and it's probably a 45 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:25,640 general term, but just being a, being a good man, someone who's 46 00:02:25,640 --> 00:02:28,360 wanting to make a positive impact. 47 00:02:30,040 --> 00:02:32,920 I've been fortunate enough to, to have a little bit of a 48 00:02:32,920 --> 00:02:36,800 platform and I think you know, you've, you can either do 49 00:02:36,800 --> 00:02:40,080 something positive with it or you can maybe go down a bad 50 00:02:40,080 --> 00:02:42,200 route. So I'm want to make a positive 51 00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:45,560 impact. I'm into physical exercise. 52 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,800 I'm obsessed with mindset approach. 53 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:57,200 I love cold water therapy. Yeah, physic, you know, physical 54 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,680 exercise because you know the physical and the men will runs, 55 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:05,640 you know runs full circle. And This is why you know me and 56 00:03:05,640 --> 00:03:09,480 you are talking now, I would think because I'd seen something 57 00:03:09,480 --> 00:03:14,680 that you put around being positive role models and I loved 58 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,120 loved you quartets, the Gandhi Court about trying to make the 59 00:03:18,120 --> 00:03:19,520 change that you want to see in the world. 60 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:24,520 So you know immediately some in one way or another mean you've 61 00:03:24,520 --> 00:03:27,960 gravitated to each other. Hence the podcast. 62 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,280 Yeah, not like that. I feel like there's in quite a 63 00:03:31,280 --> 00:03:33,880 lot of sods. I always say that curiosity is 64 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,560 usually something that people say, are they curious about 65 00:03:36,560 --> 00:03:39,560 themselves and about the world. And then just as you were 66 00:03:39,560 --> 00:03:42,840 talking there, I think a segue on to that is like a constant 67 00:03:42,840 --> 00:03:45,800 need for improvement or a want for improvement, not necessarily 68 00:03:45,800 --> 00:03:49,960 a need, but never being stagnant and just kind of being like, 69 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,640 right, OK, yeah, I know everything there is to know. 70 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:53,600 I don't need to learn anything else like I'm done. 71 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:56,560 See, I think that's really important. 72 00:03:56,960 --> 00:03:58,880 Yeah. And I think that's something 73 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,440 that I think it's a good trait to have. 74 00:04:01,440 --> 00:04:04,760 And I think, yeah, I mean, I've got that from experience of just 75 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:07,800 that I'm, I'm always, I'm always wanting to learn. 76 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:15,720 I think always, you know, we've, we've all got an ego, but I 77 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:22,120 think something from experience that you're able to understand 78 00:04:22,120 --> 00:04:28,360 the ego and you know, just always want to learn, even if 79 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:31,320 someone you know, you might, someone who might not be, I 80 00:04:31,320 --> 00:04:34,440 don't know further on your career. 81 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:38,400 So, for example, you know, I've got more, I'm older than you, 82 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,320 but I guarantee I'll be able to learn from you and just being 83 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:46,440 always willing to learn. And that's something that, you 84 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:49,120 know, that's something that that I'm, I'm about really I'm just 85 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:52,680 always continue wanting to grow, wanting to learn. 86 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,600 Yeah, I love that. So before we could jump into a 87 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:57,880 bit of your story, well, I guess it's the question I'm going to 88 00:04:57,880 --> 00:05:01,840 ask is just a little background elevator picture of who you are, 89 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,640 what you do, how you've got into this position now. 90 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:13,320 So a lot of a lot of people will normally will know my background 91 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:15,880 from winning Big Brother back in 2005. 92 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:20,160 Something that sometimes some people ask me like, are you OK 93 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,520 with talking about that? And I'm like, absolutely. 94 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,280 It was a, a huge part of my life journey. 95 00:05:26,280 --> 00:05:32,520 It's a huge chapter in my life. And even though it was like 2021 96 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,240 years ago, it's still, it's still open doors for me. 97 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,880 It's, I've progressed into being the founder of the Never throw 98 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:44,600 on the towel project. And that's a mission to try and 99 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:50,840 tackle this huge crisis that we have with male suicide and, and 100 00:05:50,840 --> 00:05:58,000 mental health and, and mindset. And it's, I'll share me story of 101 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,440 how that's came about. It's, I always say it's 102 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:06,040 absolutely my best story how this projects come around and 103 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,480 I'll do multiple, multiple things with the project. 104 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:12,920 Yeah, I like it. With the Big Brother things, I'd 105 00:06:12,920 --> 00:06:14,520 rather write notes. And I was like, I didn't know 106 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:16,680 whether to leave with it or bring it up. 107 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,440 Because I can imagine in the span of 21 years, that's that's 108 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,360 what everyone's gone with. They're just like, oh, Big 109 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:25,560 Brother, they've gone for that. And I imagine that's something 110 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:27,520 that you've not wanted. Obviously it's a part of you, 111 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:30,080 but it's not what you want to do now. 112 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:32,920 It's not who you are like 21 years later. 113 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,800 Yeah, yeah. So, you know, sometimes 114 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,960 precisely for what you've just said, sometimes people will, 115 00:06:38,960 --> 00:06:41,920 will leave it out if someone wants to talk about it. 116 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:46,440 I'm, I'm always, you know, willing to talk about it because 117 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:49,840 it was, it was a huge part for for me. 118 00:06:49,840 --> 00:06:53,880 I've I've kind of like, you know, I think life's a journey 119 00:06:53,880 --> 00:06:57,120 and I've kind of run my life by chapters. 120 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:04,320 You know, the 20 the 20s were me dickhead years having fun, no 121 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:09,320 responsibilities. 30s was like, you know, that's when I met my 122 00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:17,680 wife and then now becoming a becoming a dad and this project 123 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:21,960 that I've got Oh my God, wow. It just the purpose and the 124 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:28,200 impact is, is phenomenal. And I think some of that I've 125 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,040 discovered where if you can do, if you can make some form of 126 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:38,480 change, like with positivity and you and you help people, wow. 127 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,600 It is the most beautiful currency because when you help 128 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:46,080 people, it absolutely feels amazing as well. 129 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:51,360 So it's it's yeah. But I'm all around the project 130 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,400 that I'm doing. It's amazing and it's so, so 131 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,840 needed. So I guess getting in before we 132 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:01,800 get into the the project that you're doing, how does the 133 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:05,320 transition happen from like if you look into a third person, 134 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:09,360 the Big Brother that reality TV is the kind of person there is 135 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,240 very different than the one that you described now, which is 136 00:08:11,240 --> 00:08:13,720 purpose helping people. Where is that? 137 00:08:14,240 --> 00:08:16,160 Where are those two things joined together essentially? 138 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:22,520 So yeah, the, the, the, the, the heavily, the heavily linked to 139 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:27,040 be honest, because they say the, the Big Brother journey was 140 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:32,240 absolutely one of my one of the reasons why in one of the 141 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:35,679 chapters which has led me into the project, I'll just quickly 142 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:39,200 run through, run through it. How how it's all always 143 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:41,840 connected. So when I won Big Brother back 144 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:47,920 in 2005, it was a massive, it was a really extreme taste of 145 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,640 fame because I was a young man in the early 20s. 146 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:55,280 Back then it was literally the only reality TV show gone and it 147 00:08:55,280 --> 00:08:58,000 was, it was huge. It was. 148 00:08:59,200 --> 00:09:03,000 I was on TV every single night for just under three month. 149 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:12,960 Came out £150,000 next day got 200,000 LB and then started 150 00:09:12,960 --> 00:09:18,920 basically kind of doing a lot of celebrity tape stuff. 151 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:27,080 But and it was a fantastic high, but they basically, they became, 152 00:09:27,520 --> 00:09:31,360 there was a huge lot of that when you know, when basically 153 00:09:31,360 --> 00:09:35,560 the the fame and the money had dried up and then the 154 00:09:35,560 --> 00:09:39,360 realisation of shit, I've got to get a normal job. 155 00:09:40,680 --> 00:09:46,440 That was, that was horrendous because, and this is something 156 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,120 that I think a lot of people struggle with the identity. 157 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:56,880 My identity was so heavily tied to have one Big Brother. 158 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:02,920 So the, the ego, the pride and the paranoia of what I thought 159 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,280 people might think of me if I went and got that normal job 160 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:10,320 because the identity was so, but I've, but I've one Big Brother 161 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:15,160 like I'm going to, you know, I'm often pointed at as there's the 162 00:10:15,160 --> 00:10:18,480 Dick head from Big Brother or there's that, you know, there's 163 00:10:18,480 --> 00:10:20,200 that, there's that guy from Big Brother. 164 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,680 Now he's, you know, now, now look at him. 165 00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:25,840 He's I don't know. I didn't have any qualifications 166 00:10:25,840 --> 00:10:30,440 particularly. So that went down a real bad 167 00:10:30,440 --> 00:10:32,040 path. And that was a, that was a huge 168 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:36,320 challenge. Then I got back into the hair 169 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:41,680 industry as a Barber and, you know, had to kind of like 170 00:10:41,680 --> 00:10:43,800 retrain. I hadn't done for for years. 171 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:50,320 And but then I'd started discovering that the Barber 172 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:55,160 chair was such an amazing place to have conversations and I 173 00:10:55,160 --> 00:10:59,320 started having men open up to me in the chair. 174 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:05,960 And so I was like, you know, I had such a want to help because 175 00:11:05,960 --> 00:11:10,440 I felt as if I could, because I'd literally been down this 176 00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:15,160 journey and then, you know, managed to get into a better 177 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:18,160 place, literally a better place and then literally a better 178 00:11:18,160 --> 00:11:22,120 headspace and started, you know, saying look, you know, and 179 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:27,320 giving them, helping them. So, so I always had a huge 180 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:33,400 passion around men's mental health and wanted to do 181 00:11:33,400 --> 00:11:37,000 something and, but never really, really did. 182 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:42,200 And, but they were the two big chapters because I basically 183 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:46,240 spoke to men for a living. And then the, and then the 184 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,280 third, the third thing that's happened, the 3rd chapter that 185 00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:54,680 really feels like, really has a feeling of a colon. 186 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:59,480 And it's so I'm so deeply connected to it because it, it 187 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:01,920 come from the passing of my grandma. 188 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:07,480 So I got brought up by my grandma, just had the most 189 00:12:07,840 --> 00:12:15,680 beautiful relationship with that woman and never throw on the 190 00:12:15,680 --> 00:12:17,600 towel. Keep on living were the words 191 00:12:17,600 --> 00:12:21,600 that I used right at the end of my grandma's eulogy when when I 192 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,520 read it out at the church. And straight after the funeral, 193 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:29,000 I walked outside the church and there was a man waiting for me 194 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:32,920 in floods of tears and he thanked me for the eulogy. 195 00:12:34,160 --> 00:12:38,200 Then the same night, he got back in touch with me, sharing with 196 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:41,760 me that he'd been feeling suicidal to the point of he was 197 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,400 having to see professional help. But right at the end of the 198 00:12:44,400 --> 00:12:46,960 message, he says, I just need to let you know, I'm clinging on to 199 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:48,760 the words, never throwing the towel. 200 00:12:49,640 --> 00:12:53,800 And I was like, you know, I'll never, I'll never forget reading 201 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:57,840 that message. And I was just like, and there 202 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:04,680 was like, there was just some fire that got lit and it there 203 00:13:04,680 --> 00:13:07,320 was already kind of like they said, the two, the two chapters 204 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,080 of my reality TV experience and then me talking to men for a 205 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,240 living. But then when that hit, I was 206 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:17,000 like, there's something that come over me where I was like, I 207 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,440 have to start talking about this. 208 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:22,120 I need to. And it's highlight to me the 209 00:13:22,120 --> 00:13:25,560 power of a story because I simply told me grandma's story 210 00:13:26,080 --> 00:13:28,960 and help someone. And so then I just actively 211 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,680 start trying to speak at an event. 212 00:13:31,680 --> 00:13:34,280 I didn't know how I was going to do it, but when I got my first 213 00:13:34,280 --> 00:13:38,160 opportunity, there was a woman called Holly, Holly Matthews. 214 00:13:38,640 --> 00:13:40,520 Shout out to Holly Matthews, great woman. 215 00:13:42,320 --> 00:13:45,400 She was like, what's your I'm going to book you as a speaker? 216 00:13:45,680 --> 00:13:48,800 What's your talk called? And I was literally on the phone 217 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:53,680 and it was like the first thing that came to me head was the 218 00:13:53,680 --> 00:13:55,040 talk is called never throw in the towel. 219 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:02,240 And I remember I had goosebumps and then done the talk terror 220 00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:06,840 was petrified about about doing the talk had loads of self doubt 221 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:11,000 because I was the IT was the first time ever I was publicly 222 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:15,120 opening up about my own struggles, you know, and I was 223 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:18,120 like thinking, you know, is, is this a good idea? 224 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:24,480 Like this might, this might go bad, like, you know, but it was, 225 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,520 it was so drowned out by the importance of the message and it 226 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:34,280 was so drowned out by me grandma's story that everything 227 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:40,440 else got drowned out and not just done it and then finished 228 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:41,680 it. Couldn't believe the impact I 229 00:14:41,680 --> 00:14:44,960 had had so many messages after that one talk. 230 00:14:46,720 --> 00:14:51,320 This was so timely because November approached the month of 231 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,960 men's mental health. And so there was like, I was 232 00:14:54,960 --> 00:15:00,080 like, I need to continue this. This is being hugely impactful. 233 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,920 And then that's when I decided to do the never throw on the 234 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:10,440 towel project throughout the and it's just as you know, so I've 235 00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:12,880 done. I held a monthly free meet up in 236 00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:15,160 November that had seven men attend. 237 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:19,760 Decided to do a second one that had 31 men attend. 238 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:25,600 Third one had 72 men attend. I was just like and it and then 239 00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:29,800 went on LinkedIn and then decided I thought, what if I do 240 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,760 the talk, but then bring the Barber chair with me? 241 00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:37,120 I think that might be a good idea because I'm already 242 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,160 straight striking up conversations. 243 00:15:39,480 --> 00:15:44,120 What if I really give them a really great opportunity to have 244 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:46,520 the conversation in the Barber chair, but without any stigma. 245 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:51,880 Do not went on LinkedIn. Then next thing I'm having, I'm 246 00:15:51,880 --> 00:15:55,320 getting Amazon, I'm getting all the contact and me, I'm getting 247 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:58,160 these huge corporate organisations wanting, wanting 248 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:00,520 me to do it. And then it's just, you know, 249 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,680 grew and grew and grew and it's been a hell of a journey. 250 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:07,640 Yeah, sounds, sounds to me there's a lot, a lot there. 251 00:16:07,640 --> 00:16:09,880 I'm just I get lost in people's stories sometimes. 252 00:16:09,880 --> 00:16:11,000 I'm actually I'm doing a broadcast there. 253 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:14,840 You didn't have to tell me to talk more, I thought. 254 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:17,040 Honestly, trust me, I'm a professional shit dogger. 255 00:16:17,880 --> 00:16:20,240 It's great. I'd rather that than one word 256 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:22,720 answers than having to dig things out of people. 257 00:16:22,720 --> 00:16:27,760 But just going back to so just to cover like when you the post 258 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:30,960 Big Brother Eros, you've got all this like fame, money, accolades 259 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:32,760 and stuff. And then you're in this like dip 260 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,760 where you've lost a sense of identity in that moment of your 261 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:38,400 life where you're experiencing the things that you're talking 262 00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,520 about now. So suicide or was it just quite 263 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,360 low for you? So there, there was a, there was 264 00:16:45,360 --> 00:16:50,440 a number of challenges that probably the, the, there was 265 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:53,680 huge identity, but the, there was financial, there was 266 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:59,200 financial problems. So there was, I'd missed five 267 00:16:59,200 --> 00:17:04,640 mortgage payments on my house. And the, the house that I had 268 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:07,800 was like the only thing that I had to showcase for the 269 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,720 winnings. It was like, you know, 270 00:17:09,960 --> 00:17:14,119 everything's everything's maybe died off and and and but at 271 00:17:14,119 --> 00:17:16,960 least at least at least I bought a house. 272 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:26,040 So the the the the combination of about to lose a house, no 273 00:17:26,040 --> 00:17:32,440 identity. I was in my late 20s now, you 274 00:17:32,440 --> 00:17:38,480 know, no direction. This is this is when I was like, 275 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:48,320 what all and how I was feeling is I was just wishing I wasn't 276 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:51,560 here. That's that they would be more 277 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:54,960 of a case of I was just wishing I wasn't here. 278 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:59,640 There wasn't, you know what I was like. 279 00:17:59,960 --> 00:18:03,640 I mean, it's if we talk about suicide, this you've got you've 280 00:18:03,640 --> 00:18:06,600 got active suicidal force, haven't you, where act active is 281 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,560 literally a code red where you've got someone in the 282 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:14,640 planning stage and then you've got passive ones where so 283 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,200 there's a huge difference. There's a huge difference, I 284 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:25,480 think, but it was because, you know, life was like life was so 285 00:18:25,480 --> 00:18:30,160 shit. I was it was more of a case of 286 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:38,280 just like, man, I just life's shit like it's so and you know, 287 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:40,520 at times it was just like, how how am I? 288 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:47,160 Because I'd felt my, my take was I'd, I thought how how have I 289 00:18:47,160 --> 00:18:51,280 messed up so much single handedly getting so much fame 290 00:18:51,280 --> 00:18:53,320 and so much success and so much money. 291 00:18:54,120 --> 00:18:57,840 Now I'm at the point where I'm at 28 and I've had to move back 292 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,560 in my grandma's house and I'm, I'm back in the bedroom where I 293 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:06,880 grew up as a boy, as a lad and I both. 294 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:11,560 And this is a great line and it's not mine, but I turn, I've 295 00:19:11,560 --> 00:19:21,160 turned the mess into a message because I know that you can get 296 00:19:21,160 --> 00:19:26,000 out of like the, you know, the law of polarity states we will 297 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:30,280 always, we will go through opposites in our life, all of 298 00:19:30,280 --> 00:19:33,360 us. So if you're having a bad time, 299 00:19:34,440 --> 00:19:38,760 the good times will come again if you just keep going, just 300 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,560 keep pushing forward. If you're in that dark heads, if 301 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:44,840 you're in that dark place, keep pushing forward. 302 00:19:44,880 --> 00:19:48,640 Keep pushing forward. I promise you they will be 303 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:49,760 light. Yeah. 304 00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:52,400 Yeah, I like that. Remind me of a quote that you 305 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,120 said there with the message, the mess. 306 00:19:54,120 --> 00:19:56,720 And the message is every master wants a disaster. 307 00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:00,520 And your story there just kind of reminded me of mine. 308 00:20:00,520 --> 00:20:04,960 So two years ago I was 26 and again, just the the levels of 309 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:07,680 fame and well, that was in peril compared to what you were 310 00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:09,160 achieving. But it's kind of a micro version 311 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:12,120 of that where? I've gone and achieved my dream, 312 00:20:12,120 --> 00:20:14,920 which was travelling, working online, working on a laptop in 313 00:20:14,920 --> 00:20:16,680 Bali. Fuck myself. 314 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:19,280 It was great. It was great for the three 315 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:23,280 months that I did it. And so I it is, it is really 316 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,080 nice. It was just, yeah, it's, it's 317 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:26,160 kind of weird looking back on it. 318 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:27,680 It's kind of like a detachment of my life. 319 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,360 It was just like, sometimes it feels like a movie, like it 320 00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:33,440 didn't even happen. But I didn't have the right 321 00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:36,080 perspective. I just didn't have the the right 322 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:38,120 tool to keep it going. And I got to a point where I 323 00:20:38,120 --> 00:20:39,680 kind of lost everything. And when I say I lost 324 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:42,120 everything, I kind of ran myself into the ground, had to come 325 00:20:42,120 --> 00:20:45,040 home because I have my money and I was on my sofa. 326 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,800 I was forced to move back onto the sofa and I was just kind of 327 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:51,560 like, what the fuck am I doing? Like, and in that point there, 328 00:20:51,560 --> 00:20:56,320 you kind of, I guess it reflects on your state of mind, but you 329 00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:58,800 either go further into that negative problem or that's like 330 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,600 the the switch of like, OK, we need to do something different 331 00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:03,680 here. In that time when you were 332 00:21:04,480 --> 00:21:07,880 making these decisions like buying a house and you said 333 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:11,360 they're thinking you were doing the right thing, you have a male 334 00:21:11,360 --> 00:21:13,640 role model in your life to kind of point you in the right 335 00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:15,640 direction. How we sort of do this, do that, 336 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:22,920 maybe don't do this. So there is we, you know, the, 337 00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,840 the Manosphere programme that you were talking about, that was 338 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:30,920 obviously I had a keen interest in that generally because I work 339 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,960 in the space. But it resonated to me in 340 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:38,440 different ways as well, because I've, I've never once spoken to 341 00:21:38,440 --> 00:21:41,920 my dad. I know who he is. 342 00:21:42,320 --> 00:21:48,560 He, he knows who I am, but there's never been he's, there's 343 00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,240 never been a reach out from, from him. 344 00:21:52,920 --> 00:22:00,080 So I got, I got brought up by women, by my grandmother and my 345 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,600 mother, who done an absolute amazing job. 346 00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:09,400 And but I did have my mother's, my mother's brother, my, my 347 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:14,640 uncle David and who would like who was I'll come from a 348 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:18,320 sporting background and who he put in so much time with me with 349 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:23,720 football and stuff. But when, when I'd, when I had 350 00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,440 when I won Big Brother, when I came in with a lot of money, I, 351 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:31,120 I didn't and I don't, I don't hold grudges. 352 00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:33,800 I'm not, you know, I don't have any bad feeling towards this. 353 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,680 I think it was we were a family that had kind of like I'd come 354 00:22:38,680 --> 00:22:42,440 into money. I don't think anyone we had we 355 00:22:42,440 --> 00:22:47,840 weren't used to that money ever. The family, the what there was 356 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:52,000 there wasn't too much guidance. If I, if I look at it, think 357 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:55,080 flipping out. If I had, if I had me now as a 358 00:22:55,080 --> 00:23:00,960 dunt and that happened, there would have been like so much 359 00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,600 guide and like, look, there would have been so much advice 360 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:08,760 where I didn't have that, I didn't have that. 361 00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,360 But I think a lot, I think that, you know, a lot of we were, it 362 00:23:15,360 --> 00:23:18,520 was a bit of a we were shell shocked. 363 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:24,400 It was, it was, it was very much a whirlwind coming into doing a 364 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:26,880 big, doing a reality TV experience. 365 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:31,520 But back then as well, it was so much, probably more back then 366 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,080 because it was this, it was the only reality TV. 367 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:39,760 And so, yeah, but, and to answer your question, I didn't have to. 368 00:23:39,880 --> 00:23:41,760 I didn't have any guidance really. 369 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:44,520 Yeah. And I resonate with that search. 370 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:49,040 I never really paid much attention to it because when I 371 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,000 was of that age, it was just, I didn't really have a texture of 372 00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:53,840 mind or even the maturities to understand. 373 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:56,800 But I essentially grew up without my dad. 374 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,800 My dad lives in Tenerife. So I literally see him like once 375 00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:00,320 a year. There's a bit of a language 376 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,440 barrier. So talking about feelings and 377 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,680 kind of getting advice doesn't really like Everland. 378 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:09,120 And there's also a like a foreign barrier, say Spanish. 379 00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:11,280 I'm English, very cultural, different upbringing. 380 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,480 So like the, the culture in my mind is different to the culture 381 00:24:14,480 --> 00:24:15,600 that obviously what he experienced. 382 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:17,120 So we never really had that sort of dialect. 383 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:20,560 And like you, I was around girls pretty much all the time. 384 00:24:20,560 --> 00:24:24,800 I've got mum, three sisters, never really around men and the 385 00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,280 only example of a man, let's say was my mum's ex-husband. 386 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,600 It was a terrible, terrible example. 387 00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:34,760 So I kind of eternalized a lot of problems on my own and I 388 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:38,640 created this big chip on my shoulder of I figured out my 389 00:24:38,640 --> 00:24:41,360 life by myself like from 18. I was trying to left to do my 390 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:42,840 own thing. Everything that I've done, I'm a 391 00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:44,960 self-made man. I know all the answers. 392 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:49,000 So we came to like getting advice or making decisions. 393 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,440 I would never look at whatever anyone was trying to tell me to 394 00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,560 do. I was almost like, fuck you. 395 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:55,920 All right, I've figured this out by myself, so I'm just going to 396 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,920 go and do it. Yeah, You know what, I can 397 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:01,240 relate. I can. 398 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:04,600 That's the term I used as well. Like I can relate to the chip on 399 00:25:04,600 --> 00:25:09,680 the shoulder, but I can honestly see, I think it's, I think it's 400 00:25:09,680 --> 00:25:13,480 been a nice chip. You know, like I've, I feel as 401 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:19,200 if I've, I've, I've always been like looking back, looking back 402 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:24,520 now, incredibly driven, so driven from even from such a 403 00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,960 young boy, honestly, my work ethic to, you know, I was on 404 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:34,960 this mission to try and be a footballer and I rocking back. 405 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,640 I never ever flinched at anything that took me down a 406 00:25:38,640 --> 00:25:43,320 different direction. And then it's kind of like 407 00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:48,600 where, you know, when it has went into, you know, I was a set 408 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,400 of a half three in the half, three in the morning to go and 409 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,360 drive to the Big Brother auditions when I like lit and 410 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:57,640 literally like I wasn't there to mess about. 411 00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:02,720 I was literally going there to steamroll getting on the 412 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:09,240 programme, you know, And then so I've and then when I was really 413 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:12,600 hung up on, I really wanted to get married and I really wanted 414 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:17,600 to become a dad. And sometimes I was giving 415 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,000 myself a hard time for how much I wanted a son because I 416 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:24,080 remember I Remember Me wife being me wife being pregnant and 417 00:26:24,360 --> 00:26:29,400 we decided not to find out. And sometimes I was like feeling 418 00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,720 I was thinking, well, am I am I like am IA bad person? 419 00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,040 Because in, in, in, in my own head, in my thoughts, I was 420 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:43,600 like, I just want a boy. And he like, I, like, I so 421 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:48,760 wanted a boy. And I was thinking like, you 422 00:26:48,760 --> 00:26:52,720 know, you want a healthy kid. And like I had, I had, you know, 423 00:26:53,120 --> 00:26:54,560 fundamentally that's all I was wanting. 424 00:26:54,560 --> 00:26:58,720 But if I'm being totally transparent, I was wanting a boy 425 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,200 so much. And you know, when the, when the 426 00:27:01,200 --> 00:27:05,960 baby came out and I seen a big set of knackers, it was probably 427 00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:10,800 the best thing I've ever seen. And, and I've got two boys now. 428 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:13,920 And now I've got and, and thankfully I've got a beautiful 429 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,960 little girl, which is wow, what a, what a feeling that is. 430 00:27:19,520 --> 00:27:23,840 But I, but I think that at its core, though, the, the reason 431 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:27,240 why I was wanting a son is because I'd never had that 432 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,320 relationship. I didn't. 433 00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:32,040 And I honestly think that's why I've always kind of, I've always 434 00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,040 gravitated to being I've, I've always loved being around 435 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:41,080 blocks. I've always been hugely like 436 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,880 love being around the lads in the dressing room when it's 437 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:48,040 football and totally thrived in that environment. 438 00:27:48,360 --> 00:27:50,560 And then I've kind of like snowball. 439 00:27:50,560 --> 00:27:54,240 I went into being a Barber, which is again, it's just been 440 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:58,600 around blocks And now I've got a monthly meet up where at times 441 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:02,440 where there's been me and 72 blocks all together. 442 00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:06,200 And, and, but, but I think it had its core. 443 00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:09,600 I think it, I might be wrong, I don't know, but I think it's 444 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:15,080 because now he has particularly wanted to be a great dad and, 445 00:28:15,120 --> 00:28:19,440 and have that son, son dad relationship and it's the best 446 00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:24,000 thing ever in the world. And I think it comes from like, 447 00:28:24,120 --> 00:28:27,280 because I didn't have it, but I think there's loads of positives 448 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:29,840 to come from that. I think I've I think, and This 449 00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:32,080 is why I was watching that documentary and I was thinking 450 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,240 that's a real shame that because I think you've got a lot you had 451 00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:39,720 you had a you had some very capable males there with with 452 00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,360 with with actually a lot of attributes. 453 00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:47,000 But the channel the the the pushed it in a negative way 454 00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:51,240 where where the the could have done probably the could the 455 00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,520 could have went the other way. I'd. 456 00:28:54,080 --> 00:28:55,600 Like to hear your force in this because I've been talking to 457 00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:59,720 people about that programme and I'm not here to stick up for 458 00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:01,520 them. I'm just kind of seeing it from 459 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:04,600 a free 60 point of view. He and one of the people Allude, 460 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:05,960 have you seen? Did you watch the whole thing? 461 00:29:07,080 --> 00:29:10,560 So Harrison, the HST guy was alluding to the fact that 462 00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,560 because Louis asked him, why don't you just put out good 463 00:29:12,560 --> 00:29:14,200 things? You've got this platform, you've 464 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,320 got all these people that are following you. 465 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:16,800 Why don't you just go and do what it is that's good? 466 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,000 And he goes, if I was a good person, I wouldn't be where I am 467 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:23,360 right now. So I questioned whether like 468 00:29:23,360 --> 00:29:25,080 they've just been a product of the algorithm. 469 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,760 The algorithm is notoriously known for just rewarding 470 00:29:27,760 --> 00:29:31,040 negative, rewarding outrage. And I feel like they've just 471 00:29:31,040 --> 00:29:33,440 fallen kind of maybe fallen into this where they've done a video 472 00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:36,000 and they said something a little bit, a little bit off the clock 473 00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:37,360 a little bit. Oh God, we don't know if you can 474 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:40,720 say that they've got rewarded with views, follows, all that 475 00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:42,320 kind of stuff. And then I think that's a 476 00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,360 stepping stone. It's like, OK, how can I do this 477 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:45,960 again? I want God to say something even 478 00:29:45,960 --> 00:29:48,960 more ridiculous and even more and even more and even more to 479 00:29:48,960 --> 00:29:52,360 the point then when they've kind of moulded their brains into 480 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,200 like just algorithm, what's the most insane and outlandish thing 481 00:29:55,200 --> 00:30:00,160 I can say now with conviction to get the thing that I want? 482 00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:05,040 Do you think that my question is, do you think they actually 483 00:30:05,040 --> 00:30:07,680 hold those views or is it a product of what they've been 484 00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:12,480 rewarded for online? It's a good question. 485 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:16,360 I think, I think, I'll be honest, I think it, I think it 486 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:22,760 probably will be a bit of a bit of both, a bit of a bit of both, 487 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:28,160 to be honest. I, I think looking at it, you 488 00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:33,840 know, is, is money playing a part in, in, in going on that 489 00:30:33,840 --> 00:30:35,080 way? Absolutely. 490 00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:39,720 But I still, I still think there's the look some like, you 491 00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:43,760 know, some, some views of that. They're like when you, when they 492 00:30:43,760 --> 00:30:45,720 were given their opinion, there was a hell of a lot of passion 493 00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:48,520 in that opinion, whether whether you know, whether you liked it 494 00:30:48,520 --> 00:30:50,320 or not, There was a, you know, there was a one time where he 495 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:53,240 was just like, you know, if we sort of was gay, I would just 496 00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,960 completely disown him. And they, so when they, when 497 00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,520 they were given a lot of their opinions, there was a hell of a 498 00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,600 lot of intent, I think in, in the, in those views and a lot of 499 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,520 passion. Do I think there's definitely a 500 00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,240 part of that where they've the, you know, they're doing stuff 501 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:17,200 for money, Yes. But I think we also has to be, 502 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,120 so there has to be some accountability as well. 503 00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:21,280 Doesn't that? Because I think, you know, if I, 504 00:31:21,440 --> 00:31:24,440 you know, would I, would I like to make money? 505 00:31:24,960 --> 00:31:27,640 Absolutely. I think we all, we all do. 506 00:31:27,640 --> 00:31:30,640 And I think a lot of the time, sometimes money's kind of 507 00:31:30,640 --> 00:31:33,680 classed as a dirty word. And it's absolutely not, it's 508 00:31:34,200 --> 00:31:37,040 absolutely not. But I think to the, to the 509 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:43,400 extent of where you, you know, would I, would I now, and you 510 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,840 know, he's younger, you know, he, he might learn from 511 00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,400 mistakes. And I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm not 512 00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:50,840 someone who wants to try and jump on someone and, and really 513 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,120 point the finger because flip, now I've made mistakes. 514 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:57,400 We, we all have, you know, and you, you learn from it. 515 00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:01,480 But I think, you know, being here, you know, getting to the 516 00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,320 point where you, you, you're heavily compromising yourself 517 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:10,720 with, with some of the views. So I think it's a bit of both. 518 00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:15,640 What do you think? I think, I don't know, I think a 519 00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:17,560 lot of them they spoke about their stories like they were 520 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,960 they were boys that came households without dads, without 521 00:32:19,960 --> 00:32:22,600 the discipline, without being so OK, like you've been a bit of a 522 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:26,120 Dick here. And I feel like it's probably 523 00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,520 birthed from, I question maybe some of them do, but I question 524 00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:32,240 whether they like held those opinions when they first started 525 00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:36,440 out, whether they were that actually extreme where they said 526 00:32:36,440 --> 00:32:38,600 all the all the heinous stuff that they said. 527 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:44,120 And whether that opinion or identity has formed from the 528 00:32:44,120 --> 00:32:48,160 code, like the constant hit of dopamine, the constant hit of 529 00:32:48,160 --> 00:32:50,800 being someone online and having this presence. 530 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,800 And I think whenever you get to that point, whenever you like 531 00:32:54,880 --> 00:32:57,240 build this fame and like notoriety, you're just desperate 532 00:32:57,240 --> 00:32:59,520 to hold on to it. And you will just believe and 533 00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:01,840 say anything. And I also believe that the more 534 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,360 that you say something, the more you act in a certain way, the 535 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,040 more interest actually reflects on your personality. 536 00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:08,600 You end up becoming that person. And that works for both both 537 00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:11,360 positive and negative. I'm sure we've done our fair 538 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,480 share of like journaling affirmations, like we do things 539 00:33:13,480 --> 00:33:15,520 that we like, good things we want to impose in ourselves, but 540 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:17,640 actually think it works in the negative way as well. 541 00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:20,400 You're constantly repeating things that you don't 542 00:33:20,400 --> 00:33:22,280 necessarily believe we're believe in. 543 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:26,920 They're rewarding you for saying the belief suddenly becomes just 544 00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,880 part of it. So yeah, I think it's just a 545 00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,480 mixture of they've been rewarded by an algorithm that's actually 546 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,160 broken. It's it rewards negativity and 547 00:33:36,160 --> 00:33:41,440 outrage and just disgusting things as opposed to positive 548 00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,520 stuff. And they've also had the 549 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,440 accountability from males to be like, call me like if you can 550 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:51,800 sort it out. Yeah, yeah, there's I just, I 551 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:57,560 think, you know, the, that's probably playing the fact, but I 552 00:33:57,560 --> 00:34:00,640 think there's that there's got to be accountability, hasn't it? 553 00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:04,840 For, for, for, for actions, regardless of what the factors 554 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:08,480 are fundamentally if you be in a certain way. 555 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,960 I mean, I think there's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of 556 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:14,080 us wouldn't do certain things or say certain things even if there 557 00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,800 was going to be money, money on the table. 558 00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:21,159 It's like, Nah, that's, you know, it's not good really. 559 00:34:21,520 --> 00:34:24,480 No, no, I think that's why I made the video basically 560 00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:27,560 alluding to the fact that there needs to be a way for us, me and 561 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,159 you, even people that have some sort of micro influence to kind 562 00:34:31,159 --> 00:34:33,440 of be the example that we want to see. 563 00:34:33,440 --> 00:34:36,880 I just remember the the two young lads that they met on the 564 00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:40,480 beach in America and he was standing there with his little 565 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,400 hands like this and he was doing the whole Andrew Tate thing. 566 00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,840 And then he said something along the lines of men aren't born. 567 00:34:48,239 --> 00:34:50,440 Men aren't born with value. Like, we're worthless. 568 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,840 Women can just go on a private jet and they don't have to have 569 00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:54,360 anything. Like men are worthless. 570 00:34:54,360 --> 00:34:57,520 We have to own all the kind of stuff that I've seen online and 571 00:34:57,520 --> 00:35:02,040 reported. But that is just brainwashing 572 00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:04,480 the the generations that are coming through because they're 573 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:06,320 just, yeah, being filled with nonsense. 574 00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:11,200 It's just pushing it. It's, it's just pushing, you 575 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:16,040 know, a narrative that that suits be hit that that, that 576 00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:20,720 their type of behaviour. So. 577 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,400 Yeah, it was a tough one. It was. 578 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,720 It was a tough watch. So I guess the Segway perfectly 579 00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:29,880 into what you're like doing now with the Barber chair. 580 00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,640 Never throw in the towel. So tell us a little bit about 581 00:35:35,040 --> 00:35:38,080 what that kind of is and how you like the process of I don't 582 00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:39,600 know. You've do us all my tips for the 583 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:42,320 call of you meet the men and then we'd go into the Barber 584 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:45,920 chair. Yeah, so it's the the the 585 00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:49,800 projects enabled me to be like full time speaker, keynote 586 00:35:49,800 --> 00:35:53,880 speaker, which which I still find crazy where I'm like wow, 587 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:58,000 like I'm literally speaking to professional football clubs, to 588 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,720 prisons, to working with. Yesterday I was speaking at 589 00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:07,600 L'Oreal, you know, working with some absolute enormous 590 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:10,720 organisations. But it's Groom, it's Groom 591 00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:14,680 Momentum. Because because it works what I 592 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,400 do and it works because it's tailored to males. 593 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:25,600 And I believe we have to tailor mental health to males for 594 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:31,400 engagement and for it to work because simply asking us to talk 595 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:35,880 and put some pauses on the wall isn't enough. 596 00:36:36,120 --> 00:36:41,880 I mean, we've been saying talk for years, but try telling that 597 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:47,720 to a bloke who works in construction where on a daily 598 00:36:47,720 --> 00:36:50,280 basis they take the piss and rinse each other, which is what 599 00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:51,480 we do. We're men. 600 00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:58,600 And then come for a mental health chat like it's it's and 601 00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,440 we chip away at trying to change the culture. 602 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,480 But I just think to get to get engagement, especially like in, 603 00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,760 in working environments, you've, you've got to, you've got to 604 00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:16,000 tailor mental health males like we, we, we, we like activity. 605 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:21,080 We, you know, we need a safe space to, to talk. 606 00:37:21,760 --> 00:37:26,880 And so basically what I'll do is I'll go in to organisations, I 607 00:37:26,880 --> 00:37:31,960 will do a keynote presentation, which is primarily just me 608 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,000 storytelling of my lived experience. 609 00:37:34,720 --> 00:37:40,400 And then straight after the talk, I'll do free haircuts. 610 00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:44,560 And the haircut is that safe space without any pressure, 611 00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:46,760 without any stigma, because it's just coming for a haircut. 612 00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:52,720 But sometimes the haircut turns into help and that concepts it, 613 00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,800 you know, like I said, it's tailed to males and, and it 614 00:37:55,800 --> 00:37:59,560 works and that's what I believe. And we've got to, we have to 615 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,320 tailor mental health and not just talk. 616 00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:10,200 We've got, you've got to take action and that action speaks 617 00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:14,520 louder than words as the same as the same goes, but just be and, 618 00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:16,640 and, and also about. I'm a big advocate for 619 00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:19,600 community. You know, generally we, we, we 620 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,440 like being a, we like being a part of things. 621 00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:25,560 And again, we can go back to that, you know, we can go back 622 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:27,240 to the documentary that we're talking about. 623 00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,840 I think a lot of these males probably just want to feel a 624 00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:32,680 part of something. So if we have if we have 625 00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:38,600 positive communities where we're going to give support, give 626 00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:42,640 accountability, hold each other to a higher standard with, with, 627 00:38:42,840 --> 00:38:46,960 you know, with how we with our values and, and, and what we do 628 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:52,640 and what we say, you know, people will be, you know, you'll 629 00:38:52,640 --> 00:38:54,760 want to be a part of it. It's a it's a great, it's a 630 00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:00,440 great feeling. So yeah, I hope, I hope that's I 631 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:03,440 get them and I'm a professional shit talker, as you say I'm. 632 00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,680 A I'd rather a shit talker than one word answers. 633 00:39:08,440 --> 00:39:11,080 One of my things I had written down is why do you believe there 634 00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,240 is still a stigma around talking around minimum health despite 635 00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:24,400 the increased awareness? Well, they say it's a, It's a 636 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,280 hard question that isn't it, Because it is spoken about so 637 00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:33,280 much, isn't it? And I don't think there's a 638 00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:39,280 silver bullet to that question. I think culture is it. 639 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:42,560 So if you take, if you take a look at the, this is an example. 640 00:39:42,560 --> 00:39:46,520 So construction is the worst profession in the UK for suicide 641 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:51,200 and regions. You've got the Northwest, that's 642 00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,160 the worst. And then second, it's the North 643 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:58,600 East. The NE for years was #1 now it's 644 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:01,280 the Northwest. So if you take a look at the 645 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:05,280 example of a bloke who works in construction that's from the 646 00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,800 Northeast, that screams out a man's man. 647 00:40:11,800 --> 00:40:17,040 And I just think the way we, whether it's just our makeup of 648 00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:22,120 males and just how we are because we are such a different 649 00:40:22,120 --> 00:40:24,480 species to women, aren't we? We're women are big. 650 00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:28,880 I like like I'd done. I do this example and I always 651 00:40:28,880 --> 00:40:30,800 do it. So I've done it yesterday when I 652 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,240 was working at L'Oreal. And one of the questions is I'll 653 00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:40,600 say to, and I'll just direct it to the mails and I'll say put 654 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:47,840 your hand up if you have, if you've struggled with mental 655 00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:51,760 health and you've not been in good head space, put your hands 656 00:40:51,760 --> 00:40:53,840 up if you've spoken about it or asked for help. 657 00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:59,280 So yesterday there was not one man that put the hands up and it 658 00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,800 was heavily male dominated. And then I opened it up to the 659 00:41:03,800 --> 00:41:06,760 females. And then you just got a full 660 00:41:06,760 --> 00:41:08,400 House of all the females put the hand up. 661 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,680 And that's when you, that's literally just one example when 662 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:15,680 you get to see one of the reasons why it's so lopsided in 663 00:41:15,680 --> 00:41:19,440 the statistics, why 3/4 of report suicide and males. 664 00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:25,000 And it's, it's around the culture of, of talking and will 665 00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:27,480 it, will it always kind of be there for males? 666 00:41:27,480 --> 00:41:30,320 Maybe it will be. And that, and that's why we have 667 00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:37,280 to create situations of engagement to help with that. 668 00:41:38,040 --> 00:41:41,360 So that's the sofa. And, and I think that's what 669 00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:43,200 that's a couple of the things that I create. 670 00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:46,760 So I, I've got the Barber chair where I use that, that tool. 671 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:52,640 And then I've got my walk and talk sessions where we and 672 00:41:52,640 --> 00:41:54,880 that's one of the advices. That's some of the advice. 673 00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:58,280 And this is this is a good, I think this is a good tip because 674 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:00,320 of some of that I come up against a lot working in the 675 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:07,480 field is some names I'll get parents or anyone or or wife's 676 00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,000 come up to me and say, I know my son, my son who's he's a 677 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:13,400 teenager. He's 15 year old. 678 00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:15,440 I know he's, he's, I know the summit going on. 679 00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:17,960 I know he's struggling. He just won't speak to me or 680 00:42:18,040 --> 00:42:22,640 I'll get the wife coming up to me and say I know there's 681 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:23,760 something going on with me husband. 682 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,240 I know he's he's kind of struggling and and just he 683 00:42:26,240 --> 00:42:28,240 won't, you know, he won't speak to me. 684 00:42:28,520 --> 00:42:32,920 And the advice I always give is go out on a go out on an hour 685 00:42:32,920 --> 00:42:35,920 walk or go out on a go out on a 2 hour walk. 686 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:42,360 That walking side by side will turn into talking or, or if it's 687 00:42:42,360 --> 00:42:46,480 definitely you've definitely got the best opportunity to to have 688 00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:52,280 talking when you and it's proven side by side is a is a lot more 689 00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,800 easier to engage conversation because you know, if eye 690 00:42:55,800 --> 00:43:00,760 contact, it's a lot more as no intense. 691 00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:03,240 We're just get just get out of that walk. 692 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:07,120 But to answer your question, I don't know, I don't think 693 00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:11,360 there's a silver bullet to that, but it's there's a lot of 694 00:43:11,360 --> 00:43:17,360 different factors of why it's still there with us males. 695 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,520 I think it is just the whole like narrative of being the 696 00:43:21,520 --> 00:43:24,040 tough guy or like you say that if you're in a, if you're in a 697 00:43:24,040 --> 00:43:26,720 construction kind of setting, it's going to be like taking the 698 00:43:26,720 --> 00:43:28,760 piss out of or, or seemingly weak. 699 00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:35,320 Another message that I see like online is not showing weakness 700 00:43:35,320 --> 00:43:36,760 to your partner. Like if you show weakness to a 701 00:43:36,760 --> 00:43:38,640 girl, then she's going to lose interest and usually not going 702 00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:39,680 to find you're attractive anymore. 703 00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:41,960 You end up losing her. That's a big message that goes 704 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,080 around sometimes if you follow like the wrong people, usually 705 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:45,560 there's people from from like the manosphere. 706 00:43:45,880 --> 00:43:48,680 So again, it's that in like inherent fear of like, oh God, I 707 00:43:48,680 --> 00:43:52,320 can't do this because I'll look weak. 708 00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:57,040 I look pathetic. We've got a different we've we 709 00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:00,160 we we literally take the piss out of each other, don't we? 710 00:44:00,840 --> 00:44:05,760 Like if you you know, all through me grown up, you just 711 00:44:05,760 --> 00:44:08,480 absolutely Vince each other. So I think we've got a 712 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:15,960 subconscious shield never to show weakness because we've, you 713 00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:18,800 know, if you've got a shit haircut or if you've got, you 714 00:44:18,800 --> 00:44:20,920 know, you, they're on it. Yeah. 715 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:26,320 So I think showing a weakness, it's like, you know, you, you, 716 00:44:26,360 --> 00:44:28,600 you can't, you can't show weakness. 717 00:44:28,600 --> 00:44:32,400 And I think that's what we've been, that's how we've been 718 00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:35,480 built as, as males, whereas women give each other 719 00:44:35,480 --> 00:44:38,440 compliments constantly. Don't that, you know, like how 720 00:44:38,440 --> 00:44:40,440 nice the hair looks, how nice the clothes. 721 00:44:40,640 --> 00:44:42,080 You know, we we don't do that, do we? 722 00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:45,400 And even how the problems are dealt differently, I know like 723 00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:48,600 women will like to, if they feel shit about themselves, they're 724 00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:51,040 having a bad time, they want to be told how great they are. 725 00:44:51,440 --> 00:44:54,560 Whereas I know with myself or with blokes, it's like if I have 726 00:44:54,560 --> 00:44:56,120 a problem, I don't want you to tell me anything. 727 00:44:56,120 --> 00:44:57,840 I don't want you to say I will fix it this way. 728 00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:00,240 I just want you to listen and you don't even need to say 729 00:45:00,240 --> 00:45:02,600 anything sometimes just kind of be a sounding board and let me 730 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:05,440 just get it out of my head and then kind of move on with it. 731 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,680 So I think understanding that and just a random fault against 732 00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,160 my head, I think maybe approaching the problem in a 733 00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:16,920 different way could serve the situation quite well. 734 00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:20,000 So what I mean by that is instead of talking when you feel 735 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:23,160 like life is shit and like feeling that you need to fix 736 00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:26,680 something whenever you're broken, let's say, just having 737 00:45:26,680 --> 00:45:30,720 the the message of like improvement throughout, like 738 00:45:30,720 --> 00:45:32,200 improvement just for the sake of improvement. 739 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,400 Because I feel like once you start going down that route of 740 00:45:34,400 --> 00:45:36,880 like, OK, how can I make maybe make this a little bit better? 741 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:39,240 Not from a place of, Oh my God, my life share. 742 00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,600 I'm all these bad thoughts, but just a case of, OK, maybe I 743 00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,880 could do this different. I think when you shift forward 744 00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:48,600 and then you get the perspective of this new place, you're like, 745 00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:52,040 OK, this this old thing or this old way of thinking is maybe a 746 00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,720 little bit wrong. And I think when you start doing 747 00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:56,560 that more and more, you then start asking the questions of, 748 00:45:56,560 --> 00:46:00,280 OK, do I need to actually fix this fingers a little bit there 749 00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,760 is a problem. So I think maybe making the 750 00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:07,760 barriers entry of improvement a little bit higher. 751 00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:10,000 I don't know what it'd be, higher or just just in a 752 00:46:10,000 --> 00:46:12,960 different medium. Yeah, I think it, you know what 753 00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:15,920 it is? I think a lot of certain, a lot 754 00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:21,480 of it's like educated stuff, like the, the, you know, the 755 00:46:21,480 --> 00:46:24,120 most common thing that I've come up against where because 756 00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:27,880 obviously I'm speaking constantly to, to meals with 757 00:46:27,880 --> 00:46:30,240 what I do. The most common thing that I've 758 00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,760 come up against, and I talk about this a lot. 759 00:46:32,760 --> 00:46:38,080 And This is why I've moved, moved on around setting up a, a 760 00:46:38,560 --> 00:46:42,160 community platform that I'm, that I'm creating. 761 00:46:42,640 --> 00:46:45,280 The most common thing I come against when someone tells me 762 00:46:45,280 --> 00:46:50,360 that they're struggling with the mental health, I always, 763 00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,600 firstly, I'll always ask them the same. 764 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:58,680 Always the fundamentals, the proven, the proven fundamentals. 765 00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:04,160 I'll, I'll ask them, are you talking, are you doing exercise? 766 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:09,920 Are you drinking water and getting some decent food with 767 00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:13,240 your nutrition? Are you getting out on walks in 768 00:47:13,240 --> 00:47:16,680 nature? And are you doing any form of 769 00:47:16,680 --> 00:47:19,600 mindfulness tactics like, you know, you've tapped, have you 770 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,280 tapped into any form of breath work or anything like that? 771 00:47:23,480 --> 00:47:26,880 They, they always said no to, there was fundamentals. 772 00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:33,280 And if it, if it's men, I'll, I'll ask them, are you drinking 773 00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:37,480 alcohol? And they'll say yes to that. 774 00:47:37,720 --> 00:47:41,560 And then so, so often I'll say how, how often are you drinking? 775 00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:48,440 Most nights. So I'm like, for me, I take 776 00:47:48,440 --> 00:47:51,120 positives from that and I always tried to put a positive spin on 777 00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:52,600 it. And I'll, I'll say, look, I 778 00:47:52,600 --> 00:47:57,920 said, well, listen, I said I'll say you know you, you're living 779 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:02,560 shit. So there's a good chance you're 780 00:48:02,560 --> 00:48:06,280 feeling shit. And the amount of people that 781 00:48:06,280 --> 00:48:10,680 I've helped with the with my kind of community where I've 782 00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,760 where I've just give simple instructions where I've just 783 00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:18,280 said, listen, do me a favour. Just have some time off the 784 00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:22,120 alcohol. Throw yourself into some form of 785 00:48:22,120 --> 00:48:25,960 exercise, whether it's the gym, running or even if it's just 786 00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:29,080 walks. Get, get get your get your steps 787 00:48:29,080 --> 00:48:38,600 in, drink plenty of water, talk. Now you've connected 456 weeks 788 00:48:38,600 --> 00:48:44,240 that when I feel so much, I feel so much better just just by just 789 00:48:44,240 --> 00:48:47,840 by implementing some fundamentals in foundations. 790 00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:51,960 And it's so important that because so many people aren't 791 00:48:51,960 --> 00:48:54,680 doing the fundamentals. And I feel, I feel as if you, 792 00:48:55,040 --> 00:48:57,920 because we live in this modern day world where we, where we, we 793 00:48:57,920 --> 00:49:02,560 have a lot of challenges now, like with social media 794 00:49:03,480 --> 00:49:09,680 comparison, you know, young people or, or people are working 795 00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:15,200 from home or young, you know, young people, I always say, back 796 00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,880 when I was a boy, you're grounded, you're, you're staying 797 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:19,240 in your room, you're not allowed out. 798 00:49:19,240 --> 00:49:25,880 That was a punishment. Now that's what, that's what, 799 00:49:25,880 --> 00:49:29,720 that's what kids are doing. And it's absolutely not a 800 00:49:29,720 --> 00:49:33,360 coincidence. Why mental health's at a all 801 00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:38,000 time high, especially for kids, kids at school and teenagers and 802 00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,640 stuff. Like we were constantly, we were 803 00:49:41,640 --> 00:49:46,400 constantly as a, as a youth, we obviously we didn't know it 804 00:49:46,920 --> 00:49:50,240 because it wasn't even a word, but we were constantly keeping 805 00:49:50,240 --> 00:49:54,000 on top of our mental health because we were constantly 806 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,960 moving outside. We were climbing up trees, 807 00:49:57,960 --> 00:50:03,680 playing football, we were playing foxes and hounds, you 808 00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:05,880 know, blocky, which down. Ginger. 809 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,160 What's that not? Down Ginger. 810 00:50:14,080 --> 00:50:21,160 So, you know, there's, we've got to be, you've got, I think 811 00:50:21,160 --> 00:50:23,880 you've got to be kind of incorporating some form of 812 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:29,600 movement exercise in into these into your lifestyle because 813 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,760 we've, we've got a hell of a lot of challenges in the modern day, 814 00:50:32,760 --> 00:50:36,800 I mean. You need to find a sense of 815 00:50:37,040 --> 00:50:40,120 empowerment as well. For, I know, I think I don't 816 00:50:40,120 --> 00:50:43,440 know if women like that were more than men do, but you need 817 00:50:43,440 --> 00:50:46,440 to find a sense of, I guess usefulness is maybe the words 818 00:50:46,440 --> 00:50:47,680 that they're using in their head. 819 00:50:47,680 --> 00:50:50,040 You need to find the things that you're good at or like kind of 820 00:50:51,440 --> 00:50:54,880 bits of evidence that you can do shit. 821 00:50:55,200 --> 00:50:57,640 And I think the problem when people say that like do hard 822 00:50:57,640 --> 00:51:03,000 things and, and all that kind of spiel is they inflate it. 823 00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,720 There has to be so big, like doing hard things is like a go 824 00:51:05,720 --> 00:51:08,760 from doing nothing to climbing three peaks or being useful 825 00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:11,200 means they've got to do like, go build this business and make 826 00:51:11,200 --> 00:51:12,840 thousands of pounds. And it's just like, no, it's 827 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:14,920 just like, maybe it's saying that you're going to get up 828 00:51:15,000 --> 00:51:16,960 without seeing your alarm. We're fucking doing it. 829 00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:19,320 Maybe it's just getting your programme on. 830 00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:21,520 Maybe he's going for a walk. Maybe he's just like keeping to 831 00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:24,720 those small little promises. And over time, it's just like, 832 00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:27,840 OK, yeah, like I'm starting to believe myself a little bit. 833 00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:34,560 But he's like, I was, I'm part of Paul Mott's like platform as 834 00:51:34,560 --> 00:51:37,080 well. So he had invented Old Traffords 835 00:51:37,480 --> 00:51:41,640 on Friday, unbelievable event. It's just ridiculously 836 00:51:41,920 --> 00:51:43,720 impressive what he's created there. 837 00:51:44,000 --> 00:51:46,800 But he he done a keynote and he was talking about the January 838 00:51:46,800 --> 00:51:49,000 man. So he's talking about you like, 839 00:51:49,040 --> 00:51:50,680 you know, you've got your journal, you're doing your ice 840 00:51:50,680 --> 00:51:54,280 baths, you're doing, you know, you're doing the hike, but it, 841 00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:59,360 it's, you can strip it back and you can it's just with them, the 842 00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:02,080 them little things. And I've done I've done a talk 843 00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:05,000 about about that. I've done a little video of it 844 00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:08,680 recently about just, you know, can just be something little 845 00:52:08,680 --> 00:52:12,440 like winning your morning and just going on for a just going 846 00:52:12,440 --> 00:52:16,520 on for a walk. And I'll do a I'll do a slide 847 00:52:16,520 --> 00:52:19,840 actually on this is what I talk about where it shows a picture 848 00:52:19,840 --> 00:52:23,800 of the two brains and what one what the brain looks like just 849 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,640 simply after 20, a 20 minute walk. 850 00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:32,080 So it's just about what what works for you in what in what 851 00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,920 ties in. But you know, simply, you know, 852 00:52:35,920 --> 00:52:40,560 doing doing something that's and it doesn't have to be 853 00:52:40,560 --> 00:52:45,600 ridiculously hard, although doing hard stuff. 854 00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,040 Absolutely, you know it, it is, it is good for you, but 855 00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:54,720 everyone, a lot of people haven't got that ridiculously 856 00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:59,600 bulletproof mindset, but it can be that can be built, but it and 857 00:52:59,600 --> 00:53:02,840 it can be built through just little little wins, little wins. 858 00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:07,640 And then just, you know, gradually going forward into it. 859 00:53:08,520 --> 00:53:12,040 Yeah, I think it just needs to be like clear on it and right. 860 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:13,720 I think a lot of people underestimate the power of 861 00:53:13,720 --> 00:53:16,120 writing stuff down and like keeping a little bang of things 862 00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:18,280 that you have been doing. And again, it's like making it, 863 00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:21,840 making it a gap where you can feel it's achievable. 864 00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,360 There's AI, don't know if it's a concept, but like if you're 865 00:53:26,360 --> 00:53:29,080 sitting a goal is too far away, or like if you're thinking about 866 00:53:29,080 --> 00:53:30,800 the goals you want to do in 10 years, if you're thinking about 867 00:53:30,800 --> 00:53:33,600 the goals you want to do tomorrow, those ones in 10 years 868 00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:36,000 time. I mean, if you're like, well, 10 869 00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:37,920 years away, like what's the point of doing the next thing? 870 00:53:37,920 --> 00:53:40,480 Whereas if you cannot strip it back down and make it so. 871 00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:44,240 Idiot proof. Probably a terrible term, but 872 00:53:44,240 --> 00:53:47,360 just like, start getting some, start getting some. 873 00:53:47,360 --> 00:53:52,360 Great a great a great a great line is just don't try and win 874 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,880 the match. Just try and win the next point. 875 00:53:55,960 --> 00:54:00,720 And I think that is such a good term where it's just like Luger, 876 00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:05,320 just try and win the next point. Just try and win the next point. 877 00:54:05,760 --> 00:54:10,560 Don't think of the because you can, you know, if you if you 878 00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,720 think about what the the end goal is or it might just seem so 879 00:54:14,720 --> 00:54:18,160 far fetched where you can't get it, but you can win the next 880 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,160 point. You can win the next day. 881 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:22,960 Just try and win the next day. And then if you just keep on 882 00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,560 with that mentality, actually, whoa, actually, whoa. 883 00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:28,960 I've done this for six weeks now and by then you've built, you've 884 00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,680 built, you've built you like you'll know yourself when you've 885 00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:35,240 got that, that you know, when you, when you've hit the gym 886 00:54:35,240 --> 00:54:39,200 consistently for six weeks, the headspace that you're in, you're 887 00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:42,200 a different animal. You're a different animal. 888 00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:47,640 And so just, yeah, just try and win the next point, which is 889 00:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,840 what you're saying there. Love it. 890 00:54:51,200 --> 00:54:54,280 What's your what's your mission? What we got found in the next 891 00:54:54,280 --> 00:54:55,800 3-4 years? Or what is it you want to do 892 00:54:55,800 --> 00:55:00,840 with never for? The tower. 893 00:55:00,840 --> 00:55:07,800 So there's the, I would say, you know, generally just continue 894 00:55:07,880 --> 00:55:15,360 making a positive impact with the project that I'm doing in 895 00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:18,680 terms of goals. I'm about to launch my community 896 00:55:18,680 --> 00:55:23,640 platform, which is built for scale, which again, which will 897 00:55:23,640 --> 00:55:27,560 come into, you know, making a, making a good impact. 898 00:55:29,240 --> 00:55:34,440 Now that I'm a, you know, I feel a bit of a Dick head sometimes 899 00:55:34,440 --> 00:55:38,920 when I say I'm a full time keynote speaker, but fuck it, I 900 00:55:38,920 --> 00:55:39,960 am. Do you know what I mean? 901 00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:46,400 So me being, you know, me being me and, and, and having that 902 00:55:46,400 --> 00:55:51,160 drive, I want to stand on that red dot and do a Ted X talk. 903 00:55:51,600 --> 00:55:57,240 That's, that's in me sights. And I know I will because and I 904 00:55:57,240 --> 00:55:59,520 don't say and I don't say that to be cocky. 905 00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,920 I won't stop till I do it. I, I will not stop till I do it. 906 00:56:05,240 --> 00:56:09,480 And that's, you know, that's, that's, that's my mindset. 907 00:56:11,080 --> 00:56:14,920 I'd done a post. It took me 833 days to land a 908 00:56:14,920 --> 00:56:18,840 job with L'Oreal. Like honestly, I was, I remember 909 00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:21,080 when I knew, I didn't know anything, what I was doing. 910 00:56:21,080 --> 00:56:24,520 I, I was speaking to someone on LinkedIn from France because I 911 00:56:24,520 --> 00:56:27,200 just came on LinkedIn and I was like, I want to work with them. 912 00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:30,680 I'm using hair as a tool. And I was, I got passed from 913 00:56:30,680 --> 00:56:34,920 pillar to post had zero. But one thing that I didn't do 914 00:56:34,920 --> 00:56:40,400 is I didn't stop. And I, you know, I really 915 00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:44,760 believe that if you really, really, really, really want to 916 00:56:44,760 --> 00:56:50,000 do something, you can, you can just just just do it. 917 00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:53,840 So they're the, they're, they're the goals. 918 00:56:53,880 --> 00:56:57,640 They're the goals, but also just trying to also trying to just 919 00:56:57,640 --> 00:57:05,560 enjoy the process. And yeah, not, yes, I'm driven, 920 00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:11,800 but also I'm, and it's sometimes an issue with, you know, like 921 00:57:12,000 --> 00:57:14,000 high achievers or people who are driven. 922 00:57:14,360 --> 00:57:16,840 It's kind of the never the never bloody happy either. 923 00:57:17,240 --> 00:57:20,720 It's like it's some, it's the, it's the cost, I suppose. 924 00:57:21,040 --> 00:57:26,000 But just just understanding that as well and just being aware of 925 00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,520 it as well. Well, when you're talking there 926 00:57:28,520 --> 00:57:31,800 reminds me of something that I say to myself constantly of it's 927 00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:35,800 never a matter of if it happens, it's a matter of when it happens 928 00:57:35,880 --> 00:57:37,920 from literally, if it's going to happen in a year, if it's going 929 00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:39,520 to happen in three years, like place it there. 930 00:57:39,520 --> 00:57:41,920 As long as you keep going, it isn't. 931 00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,160 There is no way for you to not win. 932 00:57:43,840 --> 00:57:45,440 You just keep showing up, keep doing what you do. 933 00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:52,400 Yeah, and you know what? Also being OK with failing. 934 00:57:52,440 --> 00:57:54,720 I've failed. I've failed many times. 935 00:57:56,520 --> 00:57:59,720 But opposite opposition it is failures, failures, feedback. 936 00:58:00,520 --> 00:58:03,360 Failure is unbelievable feedback. 937 00:58:03,760 --> 00:58:07,760 You've got so much more intelligence and information to 938 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:11,240 go again and you're going to be better at it because you've got 939 00:58:11,240 --> 00:58:14,960 way more info. Like, do you know what I mean? 940 00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:18,720 That's that's unbelievable. Yeah, yeah, I love that. 941 00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:20,400 Where can people go if they want to? 942 00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:24,120 See more of your stuff. So I'm quite easy to find. 943 00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:27,280 I'm on all forms of social media platform. 944 00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,600 Anthony Hutton and never throw on the Tell project is on all 945 00:58:32,600 --> 00:58:36,320 forms of social media platform. I've got Never throw on the Tell 946 00:58:36,320 --> 00:58:41,640 podcast where got some cracking guests on there. 947 00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:45,880 Yeah, I'm quite quite easy to find. 948 00:58:46,800 --> 00:58:48,120 Amazing. I appreciate you coming on. 949 00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,600 Thanks very much for having me man, it's been a good chat.