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Hey and welcome back today 24 
podcast. 

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You've been waiting for the 
perfect moment to get our roster

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and Robert Eggers together for a
conversation. 

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We finally found that moment 
last month the morning after Rob

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saw the Final Cut of Midsomer 
for anyone already listening 

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these two need no further 
introduction. 

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Keep your eye out for an 
Extended Cut of this episode 

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dropping next week for serious. 
Bergman fans only. 

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Here's Aryan Rob. 
Okay, we're doing it. 

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Okay, this is Robert Eggers. 
This is re Esther. 

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And yeah, we're doing the H-24 
podcast which is cool. 

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We're doing it together. 
Yeah, which feels appropriate 

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given that we're both friends 
totally and to like each other's

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work and the same stuff. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah speaking of which we have a
goal which is we're trying to 

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orient this discussion around 
the work of Ingmar Bergman we 

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probably won't succeed but we're
going to give it a shot. 

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Yeah, I thought you I thought 
you were joking when you first 

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suggested it, but I'm excited to
dive in. 

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I know that we're both devotees.
You can probably see it in our 

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work feels appropriate. 
Yeah, so we met we met a couple 

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years ago. 
I was doing it wasn't really a 

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friends-and-family screening of 
hereditary. 

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It was but it was like the 
because I well I think they're 

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our friends and family of a 24, 
but I didn't know anybody there.

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Yeah it Before asked me to go to
a screening of something that I 

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didn't know anything about it. 
So everything was a horror movie

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I think was the first of those 
that we had done and the room, 

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you know, like did not seem to 
love it and I remember going up 

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in front of the going up in 
front of everyone who just seen 

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the film like very like Stern 
faces that were like ready to 

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cut me down to size and you and 
your wife Ali were sitting like 

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near the front and you gave me 
like two thumbs up and yet At a 

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very warm smile on your face and
it's like I I like held on to 

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that as my lifeline as people in
the room proceeded to explain to

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me that you know, I was a 
bastard and I and I you know, I 

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made a worthless movie. 
Yeah. 

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Well you did not I was totally 
blown away I especially cuz I 

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had no expectations and and it 
was fantastic and it was really 

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I mean, it was so smart and 
truly inspiring. 

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Me and I was really like the 
some of the craft of the camera 

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work. 
I didn't even perceive because I

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was so impressed with the 
breadcrumbs that you are laying 

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with the with the screenplay. 
And anyway, it was a real joy 

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and I had the great pleasure of 
seeing the or a finished version

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of mid Samar last night and it 
was great. 

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I also saw like an earlier 
version and I you know, I don't 

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know what You cut but I felt 
like the film was was tighter. 

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I had way more shit in it. 
Yeah, you know that when you 

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like finish something When the 
Music's there and the color it 

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does just feel ya much more 
substantial for sure for sure. 

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It's really excellent. 
And so now to try to shoehorn 

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wait, wait, hold on. 
Oh that I just need to like I 

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cannot like receive a compliment
without like reciprocating when 

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when I have one to give because 
I so I have not seen the 

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finished version of the 
lighthouse, but I did see Cut 

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that was nearly finished and I 
have the feeling that you would 

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never show a cut to anybody that
isn't nearly finished. 

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I I love the lighthouse and I'm 
so excited to see what it is. 

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Now that it's done. 
But what I saw I felt finished 

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well, thank you. 
It is like it's so beautiful. 

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So beautifully done and really 
funny. 

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I know I've said this before and
you've had kind of a inscrutable

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Expressions. 
I don't know if this like if 

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this feels right to you, but it 
really made me think of Harold 

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Pinter who I love and I mean, I 
can't really think of any other 

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work that feels like Harold 
Pinter besides, you know, I 

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mean, like what else plays like 
the servant or you know, no 

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man's land or like, you know the
homecoming and and this felt to 

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me a total like spiritual 
sibling and and even though it 

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reminds me of Harold Pinter it 
also reminds I have nothing else

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including Harold Pinter just 
feels it just feels like totally

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unique and yeah, it's okay. 
Okay. 

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Okay. 
Well, thank you. 

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Thank you. 
That's really old printer by way

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of no. 
No, that's way too kind way 

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Bella tar. 
I would say but pretty 

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incredible. 
Well, thank you. 

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Thank you that that's like 
those. 

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That's far too kind. 
All right. 

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I'm on this Bergman Mission. 
Damn it. 

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Okay. 
So everyone has close-ups like 

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Bergman doesn't own close-ups, 
but there's something NG Less in

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some of the center framed things
in the latter portion of mid 

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some are but the earliest stuff 
with Danny gave a sort of berg 

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many vibe to me and I know that 
just because the movie takes 

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place in Sweden. 
I feel like people talk about 

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Bergman in relation to Mid 
sommar in a way that maybe is 

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like inappropriate, you know 
tarkovsky sacrifice people would

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always say that it's Bergman 
task which would really piss him

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off because he This has nothing 
to do with Bergman films except 

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for spending this well. 
Yeah, it's like it's like if you

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have bergman's entire crew. 
Yeah designing and shit and film

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Yosef since he's in the film. 
Yeah. 

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It's going to feel a little 
Bergman e right. 

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I mean, we've talked a lot about
Bergman before he's you know a 

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hero of mine. 
I love his films. 

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I was thinking a lot more about 
his work when I was making 

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hereditary particularly. 
Cries and Whispers And I showed 

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the crew Autumn Sonata because 
of the mother-daughter 

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parallels. 
Yeah. 

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I mean nobody shoots close-ups 
like him. 

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I definitely when we were making
hereditary again. 

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I made my cinematographer 
pavel's poker. 

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Gel ski was also one of my best 
friends. 

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I made him watch Persona just 
cuz I think those are like the 

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most beautiful close-ups I've 
ever seen and I'm numb and I 

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feel like there is this Not sure
if it's like a recent Trend but 

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I'm seeing filmmakers like 
really clearly chasing the 

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Berkman close up. 
Even if you look at like PT 

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Anderson who loved to talk early
in his career about how he was 

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like kind of chasing the 
Jonathan Demi close up, you know

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in the way those look especially
starting with the master that 

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he's moving kind of like away 
from Demi and Scorsese and woman

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towards especially Bergman in in
the way. 

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He frames close-ups and you 
know, obviously cool Rook to but

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I yeah there is this like the 
Box quality right where you give

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just enough. 
Yeah, you know Headroom and you 

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typically like bring the camera 
like two or three inches below 

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the nose and it's and well and 
you and you shooting in like 2 

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to 1 is that is a nice 
compromise for getting scoped 

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and still getting really healthy
close-ups where you're not like 

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chopping people's like head 
pieces pieces. 

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There is a lot of their heads 
off so you it was it's nice to 

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see I I love to to one II know 
that we Prevail and I chose two 

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to one for hereditary because it
was like Douglas sirk's yeah 

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favorite aspect ratio or like, 
you know, his chosen aspect 

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ratio. 
And you know, we were making, 

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you know this domestic movie set
in the house and yeah, it feels 

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it feels right. 
It's like how do you get the 

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height like, you know the width 
but also like some of the height

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but when you're indoors like 
that can box you in and then I 

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was kind of surprised that we I 
landed on that for Midsomer 

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because we you know, we said 
like let's try something else 

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and then we just I mean on paper
two to one for Midsummer seems 

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like a perfect like I could see 
something box like one six six, 

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even for hereditary. 
You went with Academy right for 

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we went with 1-6 6-4 the which 
we didn't want to go so boxy as 

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Academy, but we wanted we did 
want a more height for for Is 

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and we did want something box 
here for the interiors. 

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And of course so that film we 
shot on Alexa and because for 

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anamorphic because the sensors 
for three and we were using 

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these like old lenses. 
We were actually you got more of

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the like lens characteristic 
that was really cool and 

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something that then for the 
lighthouse shooting on 35 

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millimeter in an even stupider 
aspect ratio. 

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We were able to take advantage 
of so, okay. 

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So I think like the a24 gods are
not smiling at us for being 

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maybe like to obscure what feel 
like we could get more obscure. 

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Oh we could but like, you know, 
so what about everyone's least 

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favorite topic certainly mine 
genre our films and genre. 

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I mean, I like I think 
hereditary is a horror movie 

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like I've oh, yeah for people 
who've not like it's not like I 

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get why yeah, actually Don't get
why I like I I I mean it is like

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absolutely unabashedly a horror 
film like that was the goal and 

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I feel like I was like Miss 
quoted like crazy. 

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I mean, I'd rather like just 
never speak ever and just like 

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release the movie sure you have 
to do the press and yeah, it's 

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just a Minefield because you 
just say something kind of 

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flippantly and then it becomes 
like your statement on the film,

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but no like Wizard of Oz for 
perverts. 

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Yeah, which I was like drunk and
you know, I mean I'm fine with 

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it. 
But yeah, but But I wouldn't 

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want it to be you know, like my 
on the cover of the Blu-ray. 

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I hereby designate its Amar 
right Wizard of Oz for permits 

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the dead that was not my 
intention but like it was the 

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first thing I said and like now 
it's the last word but I think I

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said something about like, you 
know, it's a it's a family 

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tragedy that like becomes like a
nightmare in the fact that I 

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like wasn't actually using the 
word horror. 

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It is somehow the Omission 
became like a statement. 

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But yeah, it's a horror movie of
course like that. 

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That's Want to get their people 
like crawling on the walls, you 

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know, yeah for sure for sure and
then you know mid some are is 

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maybe something else. 
I don't know. 

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I mean, it's horror adjacent. 
I feel like yeah, I feel like an

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asshole even saying the word 
adjacent but I see it as a fairy

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tale more than anything 
especially because of just like 

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her trajectory like her Arc. 
If anything I think like the 

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trick of the movie or like what 
I was what I kind of got excited

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about doing was like for 
everybody else like for every 

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other Her in that film including
her boyfriend like it's a folk 

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horror movie without any shame 
or without any leg pretensions 

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to something else. 
It's a folk horror movie, but 

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for her, it's like this perverse
wish-fulfillment fantasy that 

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like is just ultimately a 
fairytale wear like this 

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community could be seen as a, 
you know date. 

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I want them to be read at least 
on first viewing before you kind

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of get a sense of what this 
thing really is like that. 

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They're like this real place 
with like a real history. re and

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like Rich Traditions, but you 
know, I can't watch the film 

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anymore without seeing them like
as strictly manifestations of 

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Danny's like will and it's cool 
the this version the finished 

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version, you know, or maybe it's
also just watching it again 

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because as we all know watching 
films multiple times is 

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important to really 
understanding them felt so much 

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more from Danny's perspective 
partially and some of the like 

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visual effects treatment to 
things but even just in the 

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editing choices, at least that's
how I experience it the second 

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time and and everything you're 
saying like where everything you

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just said really resonated with 
my experience of watching it the

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second time last night. 
Nice. 

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That's great. 
So it was it was pretty sick. 

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By the way. 
Did you ever watch any of those 

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like 70s English TV folk horror 
like mr.james things that I sent

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you my God, I didn't it's okay 
fuck. 

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I know I was really excited 
about it. 

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But you sent it to me exactly at
the time where like where you 

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were done was neglecting 
everything that Anybody sent me 

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and I understand and I like, you
know just burned like every 

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bridge in my life. 
That's fine except for with the 

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people who know what it's like 
to make a movie and like, you 

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know, just kind of yeah, you're 
going to be m is here and it's 

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fine. 
But we move on I want to know 

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like, you know, what what genre 
you'd like place the which in 

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but I'm really interested to 
know like how you might 

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categorize the lighthouse. 
Yeah, I would again I completely

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understand why people don't see 
the witch as a horror movie that

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it was certainly my attempt to 
make a horror movie. 

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So I saw it as that even though 
certainly like the family drama 

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is more important. 
I mean like you see it a witch 

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flying on a broomstick. 
I mean, maybe that's scary but 

223
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like that certainly it's 
awesome. 

224
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It's really were trouble. 
Whatever should be even if it 

225
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wasn't successfully so but for 
my money that was horror and the

226
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:24,900
lighthouse if I've had to like 
designate a genre it would be 

227
00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,600
the literary genre of a of a 
weird tale like Mr. James, 

228
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:33,500
Blackwood. 
Lovecraft but it is something 

229
00:13:33,500 --> 00:13:35,900
else you can than that but that 
would sort of be even have the 

230
00:13:35,900 --> 00:13:38,400
octopus right? 
Exactly left grab exactly. 

231
00:13:38,400 --> 00:13:43,800
Yeah, but it certainly was just 
something idea that I had that 

232
00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:47,200
got out of control and my 
brother and I wrote it and had 

233
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:52,400
it had fun. 
But I think it's also funny how 

234
00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:58,400
the different ways in which 
odours of a certain caliber like

235
00:13:58,400 --> 00:14:03,000
will or won't talk about genre. 
Oh or say their film is genre or

236
00:14:03,100 --> 00:14:06,400
like laughs off the idea of 
genre being important and even 

237
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:10,000
more interestingly is people who
are sort of sophisticated 

238
00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:14,100
filmmakers feel that like horror
genre, whatever that means to 

239
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:18,900
them is like not something that 
one could consider art that can 

240
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:22,700
really talk about what it means 
to be a human being but is 

241
00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:27,000
rather just some sort of cheap 
commercial thing. 

242
00:14:27,300 --> 00:14:30,600
But obviously these horror 
stories things like her, right? 

243
00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:35,700
Jerry that actually do probe the
darker side of humanity in like 

244
00:14:35,700 --> 00:14:38,800
a serious way like that's 
incredibly important. 

245
00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,800
Yeah and and should be respected
man. 

246
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:43,900
Yeah. 
No, I agree. 

247
00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:46,900
I mean there was at least like a
five-year period in my 

248
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,900
adolescence where like horror 
movies were like, the only thing

249
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:54,200
I had to say this three-ring 
binder that I just kept I kept 

250
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:58,100
adding badly photocopied like 
black and white because that's 

251
00:14:58,100 --> 00:14:59,700
all I had was we had a black and
white printer. 

252
00:15:00,700 --> 00:15:02,400
His from the internet from 
horror movies. 

253
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:04,100
So there's just like I like drew
a lot. 

254
00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,100
And so I guess like that's that 
was the point was a weird. 

255
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:10,100
I guess. 
I have like a collector's thing 

256
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:12,500
where I just never actually went
through this thing, but I just 

257
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:16,100
kept adding to it. 
So is this compulsive? 

258
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,900
Do you still have it? 
I'll be I'm sure it's somewhere.

259
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:21,900
I mean it would take a mean it's
going to be in some box like 

260
00:15:21,900 --> 00:15:24,400
somewhere in my in my family's 
home. 

261
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:30,600
I'd be curious to see how much 
of your Primal narrative began. 

262
00:15:32,300 --> 00:15:35,600
You know act like everyone makes
the same movie or write the same

263
00:15:35,600 --> 00:15:37,600
book or paint the same thing 
over and over and over again. 

264
00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:40,700
I think what it was too is that 
there were films that really 

265
00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:43,500
really affected me and scared 
me. 

266
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,300
I was really impressed Nimble as
a kid and there were a few 

267
00:15:46,300 --> 00:15:48,400
films. 
I just like I saw them too young

268
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:51,500
didn't know how to process them.
Like I was clearly like, I mean,

269
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:55,300
I'm sure I made associations 
like subconsciously that then, 

270
00:15:55,400 --> 00:16:00,500
you know enhanced everything 
like Carrie really destroyed me.

271
00:16:00,700 --> 00:16:03,900
I was able to watch it again 
until like my 20s and and then I

272
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:07,300
realized like it's like a really
sad comedy but right but it's no

273
00:16:07,300 --> 00:16:11,000
but as he for a kid, I mean, 
it's it really like I could not 

274
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,100
get the image of Piper Laurie 
like chasing Sissy Spacek around

275
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:16,300
this like candlelit house out of
my head. 

276
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,900
She's got this like horrible 
smile holding a knife and like 

277
00:16:19,900 --> 00:16:22,100
that that just like has like 
come back to me. 

278
00:16:22,100 --> 00:16:25,600
And so many ways just like Still
Still I'll have like a nightmare

279
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:29,400
about that and that and that is 
sort of like weird tone of that 

280
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,500
film. 
That's like Unrealistic almost 

281
00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:36,100
kind of unprofessional and exist
and sentimental with the Pinot 

282
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:39,300
DiMaggio school. 
Yeah, like 400 for it for a kid.

283
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:42,000
I can see that being like very 
disturbing especially because 

284
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:45,200
it's like it's so dissonant with
like the sort of Disney 

285
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:50,000
Spielberg like thing that is 
supposed to be yeah movie 

286
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:53,100
viewing, you know, absolutely 
and it is it is that artifice 

287
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:55,100
and that like there's like a 
romance to it. 

288
00:16:55,100 --> 00:16:57,900
That's really upsetting and then
I talked about it this so much 

289
00:16:57,900 --> 00:17:00,600
on the Press tour for hereditary
that I like, you know. 

290
00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:02,800
And of I don't want to talk 
about again, but if we're 

291
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,099
talking about things that 
affected us like Cook the Thief 

292
00:17:05,099 --> 00:17:08,200
His Wife and Her Lover sure so 
that too young that like really 

293
00:17:08,200 --> 00:17:14,200
bothered me and like a deep deep
way and I remember there was a 

294
00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:19,099
like a kid's cartoon 30 minutes 
long called the Snowman but like

295
00:17:19,099 --> 00:17:21,200
I don't know like that is I 
think it's like a kick like a 

296
00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:25,500
girl or a little boy get on a 
snowman's like back in like fly 

297
00:17:25,500 --> 00:17:28,099
through the world. 
It's I can't remember even with 

298
00:17:28,108 --> 00:17:30,500
the story was but I just 
remembered that it like a bug. 

299
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:34,900
Add me so I I know that there's 
something about like the Maudlin

300
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,000
when combined with is something 
I don't know like the model and 

301
00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:42,000
the grotesque when they kind of 
meat as a kid. 

302
00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:44,400
I like couldn't process that. 
Yeah, and there's also just like

303
00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:48,000
a mean-spiritedness to certain 
films that like really bugged me

304
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,600
as a kid and then I kind of 
became obsessed with that 

305
00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:53,500
tradition. 
Like I saw blue velvet and Like 

306
00:17:53,500 --> 00:17:57,000
Clockwork Orange when I was just
very young and I hated them but 

307
00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,400
then I like being obsessed. 
I couldn't stop talking about it

308
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:01,700
and then they obviously It 
became like, you know, some of 

309
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:04,800
my favorite films blue velvet. 
There's nothing original about 

310
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,200
like loving blue velvet, but it 
is it is just it's just a lot of

311
00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,200
the greatest thing ever like 
ever I don't know if you had 

312
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,900
this experience, but certainly 
like the things I hated when I 

313
00:18:14,908 --> 00:18:18,000
first encountered them because 
they felt kind of evil. 

314
00:18:18,100 --> 00:18:20,500
Those are the things that kind 
of I kept returning to and they 

315
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:22,300
became obsessions and 
Fascinations. 

316
00:18:22,300 --> 00:18:26,000
And then I mean, I don't know 
what I do in my own work because

317
00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:29,400
I'm like too close to it. 
I my nose is like certainly like

318
00:18:29,400 --> 00:18:33,100
right up against this. 
Movie I have no objectivity, but

319
00:18:33,100 --> 00:18:37,000
I imagine that there's you know 
that I'm I can see myself like 

320
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:41,800
kind of still wrestling with 
what it is that fascinates me 

321
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,400
about narratives like that. 
What about you? 

322
00:18:44,400 --> 00:18:48,600
I mean, ah, I mean like just you
know, like what what got to you 

323
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:52,100
as a kid like what and yet what 
what were your early influences?

324
00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:53,100
Like? 
What were the films that you 

325
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:56,700
like first like I assert I 
certainly read a lot of scripts 

326
00:18:56,700 --> 00:18:59,700
like as a teenager that like 
were extremely derivative of 

327
00:18:59,700 --> 00:19:02,300
like one or two things. 
Sure site, right wanted like 

328
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:05,100
wished that I had made like I 
wonder if it's other people's 

329
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:07,900
experience of like when you 
first start making things like 

330
00:19:07,900 --> 00:19:09,400
me. 
I think we're all we're all 

331
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:14,900
derivative in the beginning and 
I remember seeing some Picasso 

332
00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:19,200
exhibit in my twenties being 
really happy to see that after 

333
00:19:19,200 --> 00:19:22,700
his sort of academic what we 
would call photo-realistic 

334
00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,100
period that then he was just 
painting like any other 

335
00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:30,800
Impressionists before he became 
I mean, but better but but It 

336
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:33,600
was just like what everyone else
is doing and then and then he 

337
00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:37,200
became himself. 
I actually even the which to me 

338
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:40,900
feels like derivative. 
Like it's you know, like I feel 

339
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:43,300
like it wears its influences on 
its sleeve much more than the 

340
00:19:43,308 --> 00:19:46,100
lighthouse like I think you can 
identify influences in the 

341
00:19:46,108 --> 00:19:51,400
lighthouse for sure, but I feel 
like a collectively it sort of I

342
00:19:51,400 --> 00:19:54,700
think I'm starting to become 
myself a little more which 

343
00:19:54,700 --> 00:19:58,200
hopefully I'll continue to do 
but yeah, I mean whatever for 

344
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,700
Mary Poppins to like Conan the 
Barbarian Like in Ridley Scott's

345
00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,100
Legend. 
I don't know and Star Wars and 

346
00:20:04,100 --> 00:20:09,200
Indiana Jones and all that crap.
I think the the first movie that

347
00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:12,600
wasn't a movie that would be 
easy to access. 

348
00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:16,300
That was very influential which 
I've also talked about plenty's 

349
00:20:16,300 --> 00:20:17,700
Nosferatu. 
Yeah. 

350
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:21,200
I saw an image of Max Schreck 
and a book about vampires and 

351
00:20:21,500 --> 00:20:25,700
Elementary School library and at
that time especially in like 

352
00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:27,600
real New Hampshire, like it 
wasn't you couldn't just you 

353
00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:31,400
know, whatever so we had to like
go to the video store. 45 

354
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:35,100
minutes away and order it and 
then wait for it to come in the 

355
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:38,100
mail and whatever and I wore 
that VHS out but it's funny 

356
00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:42,000
because as a kid I could watch 
shit that I think is boring 

357
00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,800
today just being intrigued by 
what are adults up to like like 

358
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:50,600
like I do have a fondness for 
Marks and Ivory films, but I 

359
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,100
definitely do. 
Yeah, but like the bad like the 

360
00:20:53,100 --> 00:20:56,100
boring ones like even as a kid, 
like if my parents would be 

361
00:20:56,100 --> 00:20:59,800
watching it should be like that 
the bostonians like I wouldn't 

362
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,100
worry. 
On but you just but it was just 

363
00:21:02,100 --> 00:21:05,300
like interesting to watch grown 
up people doing weird things. 

364
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,300
What about what about I want to 
ask you? 

365
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,700
What is it? 
That kind of like first Drew you

366
00:21:09,700 --> 00:21:14,100
to like esoterica because 
clearly like you have this real 

367
00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:19,600
fascination with bygone eras and
like I mean, you you love your 

368
00:21:19,600 --> 00:21:23,400
clearly like a person who loves 
creating worlds, but you also 

369
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,400
really love like recreating 
world's. 

370
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,400
Yeah, for some reason. 
I was really always into 

371
00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,500
costumes and I used to wear a 
costume. 

372
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,600
Eames to school I used to ask 
for costumes for Christmas 

373
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:35,700
presents. 
I don't know like where that 

374
00:21:35,700 --> 00:21:38,800
comes from. 
But I just I've that was 

375
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:42,200
something that was always really
interesting to me. 

376
00:21:42,200 --> 00:21:45,200
And so then books about fashion 
history. 

377
00:21:45,200 --> 00:21:48,700
Like I know I know that my 
grandmother who died did some 

378
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:51,700
costume design for Community 
Theater and like University 

379
00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:55,000
ballet. 
So she had some like books when 

380
00:21:55,000 --> 00:21:58,200
I was like super little like for
and stuff that were like, lushly

381
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:01,700
Illustrated that I still have 
like Of them that I like Drew 

382
00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:03,400
all over it. 
Like it'd be like someone's 

383
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,700
like, you know, it's just like a
bust of somebody and I would 

384
00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:08,100
like Drew with markers their 
legs like really shitty like, 

385
00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:11,800
you know, what is like six for 
whatever and then my grandfather

386
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:15,700
collected Antiques and he knew a
lot about them and so that 

387
00:22:15,700 --> 00:22:19,700
became a germ of something and 
then when we would go on like 

388
00:22:19,700 --> 00:22:23,800
family trips to like like 
Colonial Williamsburg and 

389
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:26,500
Plymouth Plantation things that 
a lot of people thought they 

390
00:22:26,500 --> 00:22:28,700
were boring. 
I fucking loved it. 

391
00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,900
You know, I was like, yeah like 
I want to Be a blacksmith. 

392
00:22:32,300 --> 00:22:35,700
This is great. 
And I love talking to the living

393
00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:37,800
history nerds. 
Like I thought it was the 

394
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:43,600
coolest thing and then there was
another this is like a sort of 

395
00:22:44,300 --> 00:22:47,500
gross story. 
But my dad taught at the 

396
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:52,300
University of New Hampshire and 
there is a art show by this 

397
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:57,400
Lafayette and immigrant Hyman 
Bloom and he was like a New 

398
00:22:57,400 --> 00:22:59,600
England painter who had this 
retrospective. 

399
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:02,900
That was like, Really amazing 
and he had all these like 

400
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:08,600
hellish imagery of like demons 
and astral planes and stuff like

401
00:23:08,600 --> 00:23:12,600
these audio huge scale. 
My dad met him my parents got 

402
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,100
along with he and his wife and 
he would come over a lot and I 

403
00:23:15,100 --> 00:23:17,900
was just enamored of this artist
is because at the time I wanted 

404
00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:24,300
to be a visual artist and and he
was like a very wizardly person 

405
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,300
in my eye, but he was very 
gentle and I would talk to them 

406
00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:30,500
about comic books and Star Wars 
and stuff and he was like down. 

407
00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:37,500
To hear it, but he gave me two 
books of one that was like only 

408
00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:40,500
director and one that was like 
Martin Show and our other 

409
00:23:40,500 --> 00:23:44,300
northern Renaissance people and 
he was like if you if you can 

410
00:23:44,300 --> 00:23:48,400
draw this you can draw anything 
and I kind of threw my comic 

411
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,600
books away and I kind of 
abandoned being interested in 

412
00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,200
pop culture things. 
Mostly at that point. 

413
00:23:57,300 --> 00:24:00,400
Then I say, I would still kind 
of like occasionally no go I'll 

414
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:04,100
Like obligatory see the 
Christopher Nolan Batman movies 

415
00:24:04,100 --> 00:24:08,300
like into my early 20s and 
eventually in there are great 

416
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:11,000
for what they're you know and 
Nolan's it's just great. 

417
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:15,100
Yeah, but you know, you know had
the taste of a fucking 

418
00:24:15,100 --> 00:24:17,500
dilettante since it's a little 
kid. 

419
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:19,600
I don't know what to say. 
It's kind of it's like saying 

420
00:24:19,600 --> 00:24:22,900
all that makes me want to vomit 
but is the case. 

421
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:24,300
Yeah. 
I've been to your apartment. 

422
00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:26,900
I don't think it's where you're 
living now, but I saw your 

423
00:24:27,300 --> 00:24:30,200
little like punishment room 
where you just feel like filled 

424
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:33,000
with looks like I definitely 
noticed a lot of like first 

425
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:36,100
editions in there and it 
definitely felt like the room 

426
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:38,200
that belonged to somebody who 
like, you know has spent his 

427
00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:42,800
life going into like used book 
stores looking for out-of-print 

428
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:47,600
books, which I recognize because
that you know, I know I'm not 

429
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:50,700
that far away from being that 
person myself. 

430
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,400
Well, that's why we get along 
buddy. 

431
00:24:53,600 --> 00:24:59,300
It's so Birdman like to work 
with the same crew and he liked 

432
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:03,100
to work with the same. 
Troupe of actors and I think I 

433
00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:07,000
think many most filmmakers wish 
that they had that that they had

434
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,500
that Core Group working on your 
second film. 

435
00:25:10,500 --> 00:25:14,500
How much were you able to bring 
on crew from hereditary? 

436
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:16,900
How much did you want to talk 
about that? 

437
00:25:16,900 --> 00:25:23,900
So they'll mind IDP and I have 
been working together since grad

438
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:28,200
school since we since AFI and 
he's just one of my best friends

439
00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:29,900
and we have a you know this 
great. 

440
00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:33,900
And and we just like share the 
same taste and see things in a 

441
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:37,700
very like in the same way and we
argue very, you know, very 

442
00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:41,400
little I would say like when 
there is a misunderstanding like

443
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,900
we take it like very badly like 
unset if if it turns out that we

444
00:25:44,900 --> 00:25:48,400
thought we understood each other
but like we had different ideas 

445
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:53,800
like we get like upset and like 
need a minute he and I have this

446
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,800
total shorthand and you know, 
he's I love the guy and I'm very

447
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,400
grateful for that relationship 
in my life. 

448
00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:04,100
Not just professionally but he's
also just like, you know a 

449
00:26:04,108 --> 00:26:09,700
beautiful person and then you 
know, I had a really incredible 

450
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:15,100
time on hereditary with my 
production designer and costume 

451
00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,900
designer and it was Grace Yuan 
and Olga milk. 

452
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:21,600
I've worked with Olga male, by 
the way, I'm like short films 

453
00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:25,100
when I was like in the dregs of 
the New York in the garbage 

454
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:25,700
pail. 
Yeah. 

455
00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:30,600
She's fantastic. 
I loved it and you know, The 

456
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,100
only reason that I didn't work 
with them on Midsomer for 

457
00:26:33,100 --> 00:26:36,200
instance is because Midsummer 
was a project that I got 

458
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:38,400
started. 
I guess almost five years ago 

459
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:42,100
and we had a Swedish production 
designer named Henrik Stenson 

460
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,600
who was on from the beginning he
did an incredible job and he and

461
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:49,400
I kind of had this dialogue 
going for you know for years and

462
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:53,000
he was building this like 
really, I mean giant look book, 

463
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:56,000
you know, and he'd send it to me
and it was filled with 

464
00:26:56,300 --> 00:26:59,900
references and I would then like
remove certain references that 

465
00:26:59,900 --> 00:27:02,400
it won't work. 
For me and then I'd add my own 

466
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:04,900
and then that would provoke him 
to add more and then he'd turn 

467
00:27:04,900 --> 00:27:07,500
it to me and then I'd add more 
and take out some. 

468
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:12,300
I mean this thing like is like 
300 pages and that was really 

469
00:27:12,300 --> 00:27:14,300
great. 
Because once we dove into 

470
00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:18,500
pre-production, we had no time 
like we had to build this entire

471
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:20,400
Village and just over two 
months. 

472
00:27:20,600 --> 00:27:23,100
It was it was really big and we 
could have only done it in 

473
00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:25,400
Hungary. 
So he did an amazing job. 

474
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,900
I think he almost lost his mind 
just from you know the pressure 

475
00:27:28,900 --> 00:27:30,400
of it. 
And so did I buy? 

476
00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:33,100
By the way, I mean like the 
water was always like just up to

477
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:36,700
my nose hon on this film there 
were times on set that I had to 

478
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,400
just like walk to a corner and 
like cry which I probably like 

479
00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:44,500
shouldn't admit but I like the 
recruit people who are probably 

480
00:27:44,500 --> 00:27:46,800
either like caught it and saw 
that like the director was 

481
00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:49,400
crying in the corner or that 
maybe looked like I was like 

482
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:54,200
laughing maniacally either way. 
It's probably like a troubling 

483
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:56,500
site. 
So that was a really great 

484
00:27:56,500 --> 00:27:58,900
collaboration. 
I'm really proud of his work and

485
00:27:58,900 --> 00:28:04,900
then we It with a Hungarian 
costume designer again because 

486
00:28:04,900 --> 00:28:10,700
we needed somebody local named 
Andrea flesh who is really are 

487
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:13,600
under a flesh. 
I'm used to calling her Andrea, 

488
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:19,000
but really really brilliant 
woman like so good at what she 

489
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:23,700
does and and and so she was 
incredible and you know, we did 

490
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:26,900
as much as we could with the 
time and the budget like we 

491
00:28:26,900 --> 00:28:30,300
definitely had ideas for the 
costumes that like, you know, 

492
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,500
Kind of just like net we're they
were never actually where they 

493
00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:36,900
all for wishing. 
Like was it all Scandinavian or 

494
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,700
is there some Slavic influence 
in the clothing of the 

495
00:28:39,700 --> 00:28:41,100
villagers? 
Yeah. 

496
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:45,000
I mean there was definitely 
Slavic influence and I also 

497
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,600
thought I like saw like an like 
an embroidered Elizabethan coif.

498
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:53,200
Yeah. 
No, it's a stew like we I think 

499
00:28:53,200 --> 00:28:56,300
it's a I think it's a very 
successful like melange like it 

500
00:28:56,300 --> 00:28:59,500
comes together is something that
looks uniform and and its own 

501
00:28:59,500 --> 00:29:02,700
thing, but I was just Yeah, we 
thought I saw these. 

502
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:05,500
Oh, no, you definitely did. 
There are things that we pulled 

503
00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:09,900
from, you know, Russia from 
certainly from Scandinavia and 

504
00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:12,900
Andrea would be able to like 
explain expounded much further. 

505
00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:15,700
But you know, it was very 
important to us that like every 

506
00:29:15,700 --> 00:29:19,500
costume had different rooms 
Incorporated because like these 

507
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,100
costumes like belong to these 
people right and like they have 

508
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,100
adopted runes that like 
represent them and then beyond 

509
00:29:25,100 --> 00:29:28,200
that there was a Swedish 
consultant on the film are 

510
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,400
Martin Carlton fists who I you 
know, it's just like the best 

511
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:35,500
guy ever and he sort of invented
this language called the effect 

512
00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,100
language. 
That's the aspiration stuff. 

513
00:29:38,100 --> 00:29:40,200
Well, yeah, it's like the 
emotional sheet music right 

514
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,900
which is which is a combination 
of like the runic alphabet and 

515
00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:47,900
then like all of these emotional
hieroglyphs that you know are 

516
00:29:47,900 --> 00:29:51,800
kind of made up but also drawn 
from several sources. 

517
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,300
I mean even every pair of shoes,
you know has like its own thing 

518
00:29:56,300 --> 00:30:00,300
going on and yeah, we went as 
far as we could. 

519
00:30:00,500 --> 00:30:04,100
Bird in the time we had like to 
prepare and it's very successful

520
00:30:04,100 --> 00:30:07,400
particularly the clothing for 
for me like, you know, put the 

521
00:30:07,408 --> 00:30:10,800
clothing particularly like 
really belonged. 

522
00:30:11,100 --> 00:30:14,300
Oh, well, thank you. 
I'm really proud of her work and

523
00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:17,100
she is just like such a sweet 
person and her crew is like so 

524
00:30:17,100 --> 00:30:21,200
great. 
So yeah, I guess that's my kind 

525
00:30:21,200 --> 00:30:25,000
of long winded Meandering answer
as to like, you know, who like 

526
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:28,100
who I've worked with on these 
last two films in those 

527
00:30:28,100 --> 00:30:30,700
departments. 
I mean in post-production I've 

528
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:33,600
worked with Luke Johnson for 
both films. 

529
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:38,500
He was the assistant nice guy 
the nicest guy so smart. 

530
00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:41,900
He was the assistant editor on 
hereditary and I was working 

531
00:30:41,900 --> 00:30:44,900
with Jen lame who's also just 
one of my favorite people and 

532
00:30:44,900 --> 00:30:47,600
you know at this point one of my
best friends and she's actually 

533
00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,000
now working on Christopher 
Nolan's new film. 

534
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:56,300
So she's like she's moving fast,
but but Luke was such a big part

535
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:59,600
of editing. 
I'm hereditary that we like we 

536
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,200
just gave him And editor credit 
and then you know, I would have 

537
00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:08,900
done Midsummer with both hint 
him and Jen again, but Jen was 

538
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:11,100
busy. 
Yeah, and so I just pulled on 

539
00:31:11,100 --> 00:31:14,200
Luke and he's somebody that I 
will keep working with as well. 

540
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,800
Like he's definitely on the team
at this point. 

541
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,800
Awesome. 
How about you I had the great 

542
00:31:20,800 --> 00:31:25,400
Fortune to be able to work with 
virtually all my I mean are all 

543
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:30,000
my keys all from from the which 
on the lighthouse the thing is I

544
00:31:30,500 --> 00:31:35,100
Developed to larger Studio 
movies that like didn't happen. 

545
00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:42,400
And so when the lighthouse 
became an option and we were 

546
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:47,900
shooting in Canada again, it was
very easy to get the gang back 

547
00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:54,100
and we had and also had an 
accelerated prep period and we 

548
00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:59,500
never could have built that 
world without working with 

549
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:01,900
Craig. 
Turpin and Linda Muir again 

550
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:05,300
because we have the right 
language and the right working 

551
00:32:05,300 --> 00:32:10,300
relationship already and it's 
spectacular work Jaron blaschke 

552
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,300
the DP we work together on all 
of my short films that aren't 

553
00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:17,100
embarrassing and I worked with 
him as a production designer on 

554
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:21,400
other directors things and yeah 
that shorthand and yada yada, 

555
00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:23,700
but he's I mean, he's 
incredible. 

556
00:32:23,800 --> 00:32:26,500
He's an artist. 
I don't use that word to 

557
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:30,600
describe very many people and 
also I mean and it's a real 

558
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,900
collaboration in the my films 
are if and when they are praised

559
00:32:34,900 --> 00:32:40,100
for like the Cinematic language,
it's it would not be that way 

560
00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:43,500
without Jerry and I'm not I 
think you are like this, but I'm

561
00:32:43,500 --> 00:32:46,800
not like Scorsese sort of 
dictating like this is every 

562
00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,800
shot. 
Please carry it out like it. 

563
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:57,600
We are working on trying to find
the most like essential simplest

564
00:32:58,300 --> 00:33:03,300
language for a Scene and Louise 
for my house editor. 

565
00:33:03,900 --> 00:33:06,900
She I've been I've known her for
basically as long as Jaron and 

566
00:33:06,900 --> 00:33:09,900
we have the same tight-knit 
relationship and I must say that

567
00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:14,300
the edit and the color correct 
were the only parts of making 

568
00:33:14,300 --> 00:33:16,400
the lighthouse that weren't 
fucking miserable and yeah 

569
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,700
credibly difficult and like same
for me same here, like 

570
00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:24,600
everything was so hard, you know
the lighthouse but the edit was 

571
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,800
a joy not the loo and I didn't 
ever work cut out for us, but it

572
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:32,500
was like quite quite Pleasant. 
Yeah, I I'm with you on that and

573
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:33,900
I and and before we move on from
that. 

574
00:33:33,900 --> 00:33:39,400
I also want to mention Lars 
Knudsen my producer who I met on

575
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:42,500
hereditary that was definitely 
you know, like I could not have 

576
00:33:42,500 --> 00:33:44,900
made it through this film 
without him and he and I just 

577
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,700
started a production company and
I really love the guy. 

578
00:33:47,700 --> 00:33:50,900
He's like, he's just a total 
enabler. 

579
00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:53,700
Yeah Lars Lars incredible. 
I work and you worked with him 

580
00:33:53,700 --> 00:33:57,000
the which I'm going to working 
with him in the future. 

581
00:33:57,100 --> 00:34:01,200
I mean also, I mean if we're 
like In this direction, which we

582
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:05,900
should be RT features and new 
Regency and 824 gave me like 

583
00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:10,100
incredible Freedom. 
Yeah, I can't believe I made 

584
00:34:10,100 --> 00:34:12,199
that movie. 
It's kind of nuts. 

585
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:14,400
So thanks guys. 
Yeah. 

586
00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,800
No, I mean it feels a little 
sycophantic talking about a 24 

587
00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,699
on the 824 podcast. 
Yeah, but they are incredible 

588
00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:23,600
and I knocked at their always 
perfect. 

589
00:34:23,800 --> 00:34:27,100
No, I mean, do you know yeah, 
it's going to tell the the 

590
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:29,400
satanic temple story. 
Oh, okay. 

591
00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:31,000
Yeah do it. 
I I know what you're talking 

592
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:31,699
about. 
Yeah. 

593
00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:36,000
Yeah, so we didn't have any 
stars for the which a 24-foot 

594
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:38,199
will be they need something 
special for marketing and they 

595
00:34:38,199 --> 00:34:42,000
wanted to have the satanic 
temple endorse the film. 

596
00:34:42,100 --> 00:34:45,400
I don't have anything against 
the satanic temple like or their

597
00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:49,199
political agenda or anything 
like that at all, but I didn't 

598
00:34:49,199 --> 00:34:52,100
want the movie indoors by 
satanic temple. 

599
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:55,100
Like I wouldn't want it being 
endorsed by something that 

600
00:34:55,100 --> 00:34:59,200
called itself like, you know 
Christ Temple either and and I 

601
00:34:59,207 --> 00:35:03,000
have I mean, I'm very odd. 
Tons of personal philosophical 

602
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,100
like semi spiritual release it 
reasons for not wanting this and

603
00:35:07,100 --> 00:35:09,200
also I said, you know people are
going to think I'm a fucking 

604
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:15,800
Satanist but but they did it 
anyway, and I hope it helped but

605
00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:21,100
when I went to scout a film that
was not made in Poland the woman

606
00:35:21,100 --> 00:35:24,500
who was like running the film 
office said we don't want Robert

607
00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:28,100
Eggers coming to Poland because 
he's a Satanist and did you not 

608
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:30,000
know this part II didn't know 
that. 

609
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,000
Yeah. 
And so we had to spend like a 

610
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,400
week like convincing them that I
was in the Satanist before I 

611
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:38,700
could go Scout in Poland. 
Wow. 

612
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,200
Yeah, I think it's only fair 
that you should be able to speak

613
00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,600
speak out about it now here on 
there but yes, exactly. 

614
00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:49,900
And so we'll see if they keep 
this in the podcast that'll yes.

615
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:54,000
We'll see that's a but other but
but really but they're very, you

616
00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:55,600
know, they're great. 
They're collaborative know 

617
00:35:55,600 --> 00:36:00,200
they're they're great and look 
like when I left AFI in 2010 

618
00:36:00,500 --> 00:36:03,100
There was nothing like this. 
Like I didn't know how I was 

619
00:36:03,100 --> 00:36:06,400
going to make the film's I 
wanted to make because like I 

620
00:36:06,408 --> 00:36:08,300
didn't see the platform before 
it. 

621
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:11,100
I want to make films that were 
not like achievable for like, 

622
00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:14,100
you know, like 1 million dollars
or like, you know, people 

623
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:17,100
sitting in rooms talking like 
budget and the fact that I was 

624
00:36:17,100 --> 00:36:22,100
able to make hereditary as my 
first feature like still I find 

625
00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:24,000
staggering and I'm so grateful 
for it. 

626
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:27,300
I recognize like how fortunate I
was to be able to do it in that 

627
00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:29,600
way. 
And the reason I you know, it 

628
00:36:29,600 --> 00:36:32,200
took me 10 years. 
Has to make a film and the 

629
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:35,700
reason or I guess eight years 
after a five and you know, the 

630
00:36:35,700 --> 00:36:38,100
reason for I've heard that is 
because I was very stubborn I 

631
00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:41,400
did not want to do it is very 
important. 

632
00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:44,300
Yeah, it's very important and 
I'm glad I did you know, I'm 

633
00:36:44,300 --> 00:36:50,400
glad I did wait, but yeah man, 
it's III will say that that you 

634
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,400
know, a 24 going like wide with 
a film like the which are going 

635
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:59,100
wide with with a film like 
Midsomer tickles me that it's 

636
00:36:59,100 --> 00:37:01,900
happening. 
There are people who are going 

637
00:37:01,900 --> 00:37:06,800
to walk into Midsummer that like
maybe would certainly Nick never

638
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:08,000
watch it. 
And I'm sure they'll regret 

639
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,600
watching it but there are going 
to be there, you know, but on 

640
00:37:10,600 --> 00:37:12,600
the other hand, there's going to
be some some high school 

641
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,000
students who that's going to be 
the first not like weird movie. 

642
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,800
They've seen and that's going to
be amazing for them. 

643
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,900
You know, you cut that like I 
had to cut off email contact 

644
00:37:25,900 --> 00:37:29,900
because of like creepy a cult 
people unfortunately, but in the

645
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:34,300
beginning Inning I made myself 
available and it was amazing to 

646
00:37:34,300 --> 00:37:37,200
get emails like like from like 
high school students who saw the

647
00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:40,300
Witch and didn't know you could 
do something like that with 

648
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,900
movies and that was super like 
super gratifying. 

649
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,700
That's the other side of like 
the you know, like the D 

650
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:49,000
cinemascore. 
Yeah, exactly. 

651
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:50,800
That's the other side when 
people walk out and they're like

652
00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:53,200
that wasn't scary that was you 
know, like those boring and 

653
00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:55,500
bullshit, you know? 
Yeah butbut, you're gonna and 

654
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:57,300
God bless him. 
Yeah cut bless him, you know, 

655
00:37:57,500 --> 00:38:00,600
may-maybe it alike stick with 
them for like, you know, Another

656
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,100
day or two and at least like 
kind of like bother them. 

657
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:08,700
Yeah bothered and so finally 
just because I'm I don't know 

658
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,400
sorry listeners. 
This is clearly my drum that I'm

659
00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,100
beating. 
Like what if we can if we can 

660
00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:17,600
make it succinct like what about
Bergman is so darn great. 

661
00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:23,200
I mean, I don't know like a 
better like writer certainly of 

662
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:27,800
like monologues and dialogue for
sure somebody who is able to 

663
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:33,200
just create the most like Vivid 
interpersonal like Dynamics and 

664
00:38:33,500 --> 00:38:38,600
in film I can't think of anybody
whose work is more devastating 

665
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:44,300
just as far as like character 
studies are concerned and you 

666
00:38:44,308 --> 00:38:48,300
know, there's like an economy to
his like visual language. 

667
00:38:48,400 --> 00:38:51,100
I mean, you know, you could put 
a lot of that on his his 

668
00:38:51,100 --> 00:38:53,900
collaboration with spend Nick 
this but even like when he was 

669
00:38:53,900 --> 00:38:56,600
making films with ganar Fisher 
like it's there for sure now 

670
00:38:56,700 --> 00:39:01,700
like and so I I mean if anything
it's It's there in the seventh 

671
00:39:01,700 --> 00:39:04,500
seal. 
Yeah, no absolutely is. 

672
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,600
Yep. 
It's sawdust and tinsel. 

673
00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:08,500
I mean, it's there from the 
beginning. 

674
00:39:08,500 --> 00:39:11,100
Yes, absolutely. 
And and I would say, you know 

675
00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:15,400
for me that's a useful tether to
like hold on to as a filmmaker 

676
00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:19,600
is like, you know, these films 
are so Artful so beautiful like 

677
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:24,300
so impressive on a technical 
level and they've so rarely like

678
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:28,700
go beyond what's necessary. 
He's able to be like perfectly 

679
00:39:28,700 --> 00:39:34,000
indulgent and also to like you 
just eschew the extraneous like 

680
00:39:34,000 --> 00:39:37,800
and and something that I find 
sorry, it took a job, but it's 

681
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:41,200
something that I find so 
inspiring though. 

682
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:45,700
I'm certainly not capable of it 
yet is that the indulgent shots 

683
00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:49,300
like aren't experienced as 
indulgent often. 

684
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:52,000
Yeah. 
The opening of The Silence. 

685
00:39:52,100 --> 00:39:56,000
Yeah is one of the train it is 
so incredible how it shifts 

686
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:00,000
perspectives and and it's quite 
complicated, but you don't 

687
00:40:00,300 --> 00:40:04,900
Unaware of it and I feel like 
when I watch John Ford or or 

688
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:06,800
Hitchcock John Ford, I'm like, 
yeah, that's how you that's 

689
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:08,100
where you should put a camera 
good good. 

690
00:40:08,100 --> 00:40:09,000
That's where you should put a 
camera. 

691
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:11,600
Yeah and like Hitchcock. 
It's like that's who you should 

692
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:15,100
put a camera but that's a little
surprised but Bergman it's 

693
00:40:15,100 --> 00:40:18,600
always like why are you haven't 
wow, he put the camera there but

694
00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:21,000
that is the perfect place. 
I would never think that that's 

695
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:23,100
exactly where you're supposed to
put it but that's the place and 

696
00:40:23,100 --> 00:40:25,800
again, it's unassuming. 
It's not you're not like a 

697
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,000
assaulted by The Panache of the 
filmmaker. 

698
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:32,200
It feels instinctive. 
It's so addictive. 

699
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:34,300
Yeah, it feels totally 
instinctive and I think there's 

700
00:40:34,300 --> 00:40:37,700
something to be said also about 
yeah, I mean people love to like

701
00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,500
DFI these filmmakers and you 
know say like they came up with 

702
00:40:40,500 --> 00:40:43,200
this and like nobody had done 
anything like this before but I 

703
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,200
think there's something to be 
said about filmmakers being in 

704
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,700
dialogue with other filmmakers 
just as you mentioned that you 

705
00:40:48,700 --> 00:40:52,300
know Birdman and and Nick this 
do, you know watched 

706
00:40:52,300 --> 00:40:55,800
tarkovsky's, you know early 
films and like we're just blown 

707
00:40:55,800 --> 00:40:58,400
away and it changed their way of
making films and and Andrei 

708
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,000
rublev gets all the credit for 
kitchen. 

709
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:05,000
Like medieval worlds, but like 
obviously the Seven Samurai did 

710
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:09,800
that, you know way earlier 
absolutely and even with the 

711
00:41:09,808 --> 00:41:12,900
silence you can see like oh, 
when did the silence come out? 

712
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:15,600
Oh, it came out a year after 
last year at marienbad, you know

713
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,000
for sure. 
It's a film set in this hotel 

714
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,500
that looks nothing like anything
Behrman had done before and 

715
00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:25,000
looks everything like what he 
did afterwards. 

716
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:28,100
Yeah, you know, and I know that 
for fair me my film school was 

717
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:31,700
just watching films. 
I love Loved and then like kind 

718
00:41:31,700 --> 00:41:34,800
of digging in and to see what 
are the films that those 

719
00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,100
filmmakers were watching saying?
Yeah, but what are the films 

720
00:41:37,100 --> 00:41:39,300
that impacted those filmmakers 
and it's a rabbit hole that just

721
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:42,100
like never ends. 
How much do you re watch movies 

722
00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,700
a lot. 
I re-watched movies a lot to you

723
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,400
know, kind of like to the 
detriment of you know to the 

724
00:41:48,400 --> 00:41:50,800
exclusion of like, you know 
watching films for the first 

725
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:51,700
time, right? 
And yeah. 

726
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,600
No, I mean like I have you I 
like I've ruined some films that

727
00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:57,300
I've studied and take it so many
notes that I can't like I've 

728
00:41:57,300 --> 00:41:59,500
like there. 
Yeah, just the joy is gone. 

729
00:41:59,500 --> 00:42:02,000
Josh is right. 
But then but but you know, you 

730
00:42:02,000 --> 00:42:04,700
kind of I think there's like 
there was certainly a period 

731
00:42:04,700 --> 00:42:07,300
where I was just like copying 
and and then you get to a point 

732
00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:10,100
where you've done like enough 
trial and error that like 

733
00:42:10,100 --> 00:42:12,900
there's something in your system
and you kind of have like a 

734
00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:15,600
foundation and then you can well
go off from there. 

735
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:17,200
Yeah. 
You keep you right here like 

736
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,500
earlier watching so much stuff 
in your like well, okay, like 

737
00:42:20,400 --> 00:42:22,500
everything's an idea. 
Yeah, you know what, you know 

738
00:42:22,508 --> 00:42:24,300
what I mean, you're like you're 
like well that was an idea that 

739
00:42:24,300 --> 00:42:27,600
was an idea but like, you know, 
that's not my script that's 

740
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:30,000
their scripts and so I'm just 
weird. 

741
00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:32,200
We're just going to try to do it
like all the it. 

742
00:42:32,200 --> 00:42:37,500
Like I think Beck remember back.
Yeah that had a quote. 

743
00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:41,400
That was something to the effect
of like no matter how much I try

744
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:46,300
to like shape one of my albums 
like all the time with as far as

745
00:42:46,300 --> 00:42:48,900
like influences. 
I'm only left with what's inside

746
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:52,000
of myself. 
Yeah, you know, and and I think 

747
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:56,600
as you become as you continue to
become yourself more as someone 

748
00:42:56,600 --> 00:43:01,900
who creates work like that sense
of self Emerges more and so and 

749
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:04,500
so even if you're studying 
something for staging or 

750
00:43:04,500 --> 00:43:09,800
lighting or whatever like it 
becomes less of I need to do 

751
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:13,900
that and less of more like oh, 
yeah, like that's how I'm 

752
00:43:14,300 --> 00:43:16,400
thinking about like my own 
ideas. 

753
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:18,400
Yeah, I couldn't have said it 
better. 

754
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:24,600
I'm doing I think I think I 
could've I'm being told that 

755
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:25,800
it's time to wrap it up. 
Great. 

756
00:43:25,900 --> 00:43:28,300
I could keep this going for a 
long time saying here. 

757
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:31,300
I it feels like We're just 
getting warmed up. 

758
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:33,900
Well, you should come over soon.
Hang out with the baby. 

759
00:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,600
I'd love to I want to see 
Houston again. 

760
00:43:36,700 --> 00:43:39,100
Okay, this was great. 
There's nobody I would have 

761
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:43,200
rather done this with same here.
And I'm so excited for people to

762
00:43:43,200 --> 00:43:47,700
see the lighthouse which I think
is a great film with a capital 

763
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:50,100
G. 
Thanks man, who and and seen it 

764
00:43:50,100 --> 00:43:52,800
some are see it see you in a 
second and a third and a fourth 

765
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:57,600
time and take notes destroy it. 
Yeah, take it down. 

766
00:43:58,900 --> 00:44:01,700
All right, great. 
For you know, I mean destroy it 

767
00:44:01,700 --> 00:44:04,700
for the better if you know for 
your film students for to better

768
00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:07,700
your own filmmaking not right 
not saying like take down an 

769
00:44:07,707 --> 00:44:09,000
artist movie. 
It's looking great. 

770
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,200
But you know, hey, like, you 
know, it's a free country. 

771
00:44:13,500 --> 00:44:16,700
Thanks for listening. 
The a24 podcast is produced by 

772
00:44:16,700 --> 00:44:20,800
us a 24 special. 
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt 

773
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:22,800
and robot repair who composed 
our theme