Are we supposed to introduce ourselves and do we do to the
camera this one? Hi, I'm Ali Wong.
Hi, I'm Oscar Isaac. And this is the 824 podcasts.
I'm using my podcast. For you, you sure are very NPR.
Of you. Very non threatening, very cozy
cardigan. Very cloud.
Yeah, so Oscar, I don't even know.
Like, I just assume that people who are movie stars don't watch
TV 'cause it's beneath you. So I was surprised that you were
a fan of Beef and that you watched Beef.
So how did you even come on to Season 1?
Well, everybody was talking about it.
I remember watching the 1st 2 episodes and like just loving
it. And then I have children that
don't let me watch anything. So then I didn't get to finish.
It was one of those was like, I got to finish that.
And then I'd gotten a call from Sonny about a new season.
And so I was like, well, now I got to got to finish it and, and
I loved it and it was so funny because like I already liked it
from those first two. But then in that third episode,
it takes such a turn emotionally, you know, and
Stevens at the the church and, and the song is playing and he
starts crying and yeah. You know what's funny about that
is that so in that scene where he starts crying, we were all at
dinner together and I was like, Oh my God, Steven.
I just watched that scene. And I was like, he was like, oh,
yeah. And I was like, it's so funny.
And he was like, no, it's not. And I was like, yeah, it is,
man. That was like, it's hilarious
how you just start how like you're like that and you just
start crying. And he was like, I don't.
And can't stop. And yeah.
And then he was like, I didn't think it was I, I really don't
see it or whatever. And then I was so uncomfortable
and I went to go to the bathroom at this like green BBQ because I
was like, Oh my God, did I have Steven?
And but then they're after a lot of people.
And then he sort of like embraced it.
But he because he was so committed, that's why it worked,
because he can't judge it and think that that scene is funny.
You know what? It reminds me of everyone I was
doing Inside Llewyn Davis and whenever.
I, which I just saw recently, yeah.
Well, when I when I would. Do so good.
So, so cute. When I would do a scene and if I
thought of it, I was like, oh, this scene's pretty funny.
I would do it and there, you know, there wouldn't be much a
reaction. But whenever I was in my most in
pain. Yeah.
The cones would just be cracking up.
Yeah, I think that commitment, you know where it is, so you do
take it seriously. The part of you that can connect
to taking it seriously is like, that's what makes it work.
For sure. I mean, I think it's also like
Sonny's tone, right? The fact that that is happening,
which is very real, but surrounded by all this like
hyper Christian praise music that's happening at the same
time. And I grew up in like
evangelical, like Christian world.
And so it also I found it very funny from that standpoint as
well. And like the youth groups and
like the rock, Christian rock and all that.
But it is what I loved so much about talking to Sonny about
this one too. This this beef too, is his
incredible observations of things that are both really
painful and really funny and like the absurdity and like,
like in a way that compassion with how small people can be.
Yeah, it was. So, I mean, it's Season 2 is so
great. You're so great in that.
You're so funny. I mean it.
Means a lot, so. Funny.
I mean, you everyone knows that you're funny from I think.
What do you think? I think like it's when I watched
Ex Machina, that's kind of when I got put on to like, I was
like, oh, this dude's like so, so funny.
In addition to being a great actor.
Like when you're wearing that like that fur vest and you're
like having the time of your life and then it all the joy
just like drains quickly. Like you go up and you go down
and then you're like down about being down.
It was like there was just, yeah, like a lot of really.
And you have like a real menace to you too, which is like, which
is such a fun part of Beef too, because in a way, like you're
not really like a gangster, but everyone in Beef is like, gets
to be a bad person and it's so fun.
But so how much did you ideate with Sonny over your character?
Well, that's I'm curious about you too, because I mean this for
for you like the transition too from from stand up into
something like this, you know, like what that was like for you.
And I was very curious, you know, going into this, you know,
this role and beef that you had was like so massive and asked so
much of you how that transition worked for you and what your
conversations with Sonny were like.
So I want to hear about that, but I'll answer you about this
is it was I mean, it was like a courtship.
Remember, I was I was doing Frankenstein at the same time
and we would have these he. Gets so excited when he calls.
Yeah. And we'd have two and a half
hour conversations that like I would cry.
We would go really deep. If I read anything from like a
self help book recently, I'd like, hey, I just read this and
we would just go down that path together.
Incredibly open about his own life, which encouraged me to be
open about mine, which was strange with somebody I'd never
met other than just on Zoom. And so his sensibility is really
what won me over because at the at that time, I think there was
maybe 1 episode and even that episode it wasn't quite there
yet. There was some ideas, but it was
out of those conversations where I thought this, he's got his
bead on something and he's really funny and we connect so
much on just like the spiritual journey of getting into middle
age. Yeah, I mean, he really asks.
I mean, you've seen those tie dye T-shirts with the Ram Das
quotes that he wears like he's a very spiritual person.
And so it's sort of like begs of you to really be vulnerable and
open up with him personally in those conversations.
And then it's really interesting what he extracts and
extrapolates from there to your character.
And then it's like it's kind of the best version of Co creating
with somebody. But there were times where like
for some of the scenes I I'm wasn't used to memorizing like
that amount of dialogue, but. Do you?
Do you memorize your standard routines?
I do, but I write all of it, right.
And so with, with a lot of some of the dialogue, I was like, I
remember there was one day we did like that, you know, because
we were had a lot of time constraints.
And I, I said to him, I was like, I can't do this in one
take. I know you want to do it in one
take, but I just can't do it. And he's like, I think you can
do it. And then he's like, we got to
go. And then that was it.
And then we, I kind of just didn't have a choice to think
about it too much. So and I'm not the kind of
person to like go back and forth with him because it just, it's,
it exhausts me. So I'm like.
To. Try to fight it and I and I see,
you know, like I think that's a lot of people's process because
it's like in that they understand more or I don't know,
I don't really know. I don't really relate to that.
I just am like, go, I'll go where you tell me and I'll do
whatever you say and then I just kind of say the words.
But so. But we also just didn't have
time because it we hadn't. One.
Yeah, exactly. So I think that was like really
a blessing because I just didn't have time to.
Think about it, was it like that for you?
The overthinking. When like on your first big
project. Where you like, didn't I mean, I
was so hungry to get an opportunity coming out of drama
school. Yeah.
That I think when I got it, I just was like, this is
everything. This is going to be my dog day
afternoon. You know, and what was.
That this was a movie that Scott Burns, a good buddy of mine,
says he's a great writer and it was the first film that he
directed. It was this.
It was called PU 239, which is like a plutonium isotope.
But it was like playing these this Russian gangster trying to
sell plutonium on the black market.
Oh, yeah, and you're like, this is very important.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is.
Going to change the world change.
The world. Yeah.
So, yeah, yeah. And I, and I am a can be
overthinker and like, like to talk about things and like to
try things and question everything.
Like it says I go and I come in through the door, but why don't
I come in through the window? Why I don't come in through the
thing? Why doesn't it so that it all
like all the possibilities collapse to the only thing it
can be? I see.
That's kind of fun for me, you know?
And in fact, figuring out what it is is usually kind of a
bummer, because then it means all the other possibilities.
That is gone. You know you.
Know I like when it might be anything.
It could be this, it could be that, it could be this.
Did you collaborate a lot on your wardrobe?
Because I found your wardrobe so subtle.
But that's another thing about beef.
It's very subtly funny. The wardrobe, like Carrie's
wardrobe, cracked me up too. Yeah, yeah, the wardrobe.
Was she was wearing like those, like these coordinated linen
suits that had embroidered like little dumb things on them.
And then your wardrobe was like, it was just so coated and still.
Oh, OK. What did it say to you?
Well, Olga's incredible. Yeah, she's amazing.
She's like, she's astounding. And she's so funny and subtle as
well. But before that, the first place
I started with was the hair. And I worked with somebody named
Tim Nolan. It was incredible.
And the first thing I do is like, OK, what's this?
What's this head going to look like?
You know, you're going to see a lot of this head.
What are we doing? And we we landed on this like
little mullet. Yeah, it's like.
It's the tiniest, it's the tiniest rebellion you know of
trying to hold on to. Something.
Yeah, exactly to. Use until like, hey man, I know
I'm a I'm I'm a, you know, Country Club.
Manager guy, you know. Man, I'm a cool guy and that's
was like that. Was like really riding that
line, like with that, like it followed through with the whole.
Wardrobe. Yeah, exactly.
So that was really important. And sometimes we would take our
cues off of Sunny, of like what he was wearing and the Crocs.
And Oh yeah, yeah, the. Oversized sweaters and, you
know, playing with that idea and, and also what the suits
looked like. And we wanted the suits to look
like it's something that he wants to look good in, but he
doesn't want to look like an agent or something, you know, So
he's, and he wears his, the, the aura ring.
Well. And all these little things that
kind of he's. Really like trying to still have
it. All.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that's a great thing I heard
recently, which I feel like kind of encompasses Josh.
I heard someone say you can have anything you want, but you can't
have everything you want. And I think the show is a lot
above people trying to have everything they want, you know?
And you, you know, it's just endless grasping, Endless
grasping. Yeah, just even when he's
talking to like the who's the guy who's super rich at the
club, who has the private? Troy yeah, talking.
To Troy and like, you're still trying to have everything and
you're like, not even like it's so.
I mean, Troy plays it really well, but you're like not
reading in the room. Whereas before you're so like,
your character's so sensitive, you're so desperate that it's
like you're not, you're you can't read his this clear sign
that he's like that something's off you.
Know. Yeah, yeah.
The desperation overtakes all of that, the fear and all that.
What was it like working with Carrie again after all these
years? Because I just Bill showed me
inside. Lolan Davis.
Because I'd never seen it before.
And I was like, this is amazing. And you hadn't worked with her
since then, right? I hadn't worked with, so we
worked together in a movie called Drive.
Oh, right. Way way.
That was the first time I had met her.
We were both still in our our 20s and.
You guys are a couple. In Drive.
Yeah. Oh no, you're not.
In drive we, we. Are.
But then you die. Yes, so fast.
Yeah, like I'm in prison. And then her and Ryan Gosling
kind of get together, right. And so we were like young and
Hollywood and just things were starting to open up.
And it was like amazing to meet her at that moment.
And, you know, and then years later, Lou and Davis and I had
met my significant other. She had met her significant
other, Marcus, and we were just like newly in love and like this
big, you know, role and about music and and so that was
amazing to meet at that point and then now to come together
again. Is it true that you also
auditioned for that at the very last minute?
For Lou Davis. It like like they had already
decide like a decision. They hadn't decided yet, but
they they were. I had heard that a decision had
been made. Well, they were getting close.
I. Think, And then you came in and
they they weren't really familiar with you.
And then after you sang and you had auditioned, they were like,
Oh no, they don't have a choice. They.
Didn't tell me that. Part.
That's what I've. Heard that's funny.
Yeah. No, I mean, it was definitely,
it was the the character was designed on Dave Van Ronk, who
was like a six foot five, £200 Swede, you know.
But anyway, yeah. So then we met on that after we
have kids and we've lived a lot of life.
It was just, I've never worked with anybody better.
She's just, I talk about, you know, you know, with kids where
they talk about parallel play, right?
It's like kids play next to each other, you know, and, and then a
developmental thing is when they actually start playing with each
other. And it's like acting with her
feels like, oh, usually I'm just doing parallel play.
You know, usually I'm just kind of doing my thing next to
somebody doing their thing. Often it can feel that way.
But with her it's, I don't know, it's just something else
happens. And I just think I'm mesmerized
by her. Yeah, it really feels that way,
like when you when you guys are together.
And I think it's because, I don't know if it's because also
we have this as an audience, have a relationship with you
guys as a couple in these different forms, but it kind of
already feels like you have reincarnated many times.
Like. Together as as, I don't know, it
was really interesting and that I mean, that's the other thing
that's interesting with, you know, Sunny when he does
casting, it's all very, very intentional.
So I think he takes that into account too.
But. Yeah, I think that was a big
part of it. And then when we started
working, especially on that first fight scene.
You have to be really comfortable with someone to go
there. Yeah, yeah.
And also just to write it together, like the three of us
wrote that thing together. You know, I mean, he wrote it,
but the way that we workshopped it, the way that we would come,
we would do very long improvisations and some of that,
you know, and that kind of Sidney Lumet style would come
into the, you know, he would incorporate that and write
around it. And yeah, it was that was really
exciting to kind of have authorship over it that way.
I mean, you know, we're a couple of EPS sitting here, a couple of
beefy PS you know, that was a really cool feeling to really
feel like. Yeah, that's the best part about
working with him, you know? And then you're like, did I?
And then you watch it and you're like, oh, like he put that in.
We put that in there. Oh my God.
Yeah, for sure. OK.
When I would get some of the scripts, I'd be like oh.
Yeah. That's a direct quote right
there. I'm not sure I can, no.
OK, there's two things I know Sonny loves.
He loves it when people get at somebody with their bodily
fluids. He loves that.
He also, and he had it twice this season, but you were a, you
were a unknowing receiver of that.
Of the body fluids. Yeah, but he also, there's also.
I give some bodily fluids. Too.
Oh, you do. There's also the your
masturbation scene. Is that your first masturbation
scene? No, it can't.
It wouldn't have. Been I surely have had many more
masturbation scenes that I can't think of at the moment, but I
mean it, it might. I mean, it's OK, so you did
great. But but I believe it.
But that's, that's the thing. Like, again, you have to not
think that you're doing a masturbation scene.
Like you have to really commit because it's an embarrassing
thing to do in front of people. So you really have to like, but
I don't know, I mean, for you was it?
You're like, oh, what? I've done it 100 times.
Have I done it once? Clearly it was like not.
I've just been around for a long I'm like, I'm sure, I'm sure I
did did it somewhere. It, I mean, of course, it's so
goofy like the the but. You have to make it not look
goofy. You can't be like, you can't be
like cartoonish about it. You have to like.
Yeah, and the truth. Is when most people masturbate.
It probably doesn't look good. No, no, we thought.
That was a big talk, like, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Sony and I on set talking about like, well, how and then how
should we do this? And so he's like, well, if I was
going to do it like this, I was like, oh, that's interesting.
Legs splayed out all right. Laptop.
Yeah.
OK. What if I'm more of like, I
guess the side kind of on the side and we would try to set
that up and like, what, what, what, what story does that tell?
You know? Yeah.
How much self love is it? You know, you know, there's a
lot of elements of that expression.
But you know, for us being like, OK, well, I guess this is kind
of his safe space and it means a lot to him to be able to.
He's in his man case, man case. He's actually a A.
No one's watching. He's mindful.
Yeah. It's not just like, let me just
like, yeah, rub one out while no one's.
Around, yeah, this isn't, this is like this is the wind down.
Exactly. It's the wind down.
Right, that's what it felt like. Yeah.
Yeah, you know where it's like some.
It felt very real. Yeah, in that way.
Yeah, exactly. And and also, I mean, that was
something that that through our conversations got added in that
wasn't there originally. Not not only the masturbation,
but the only fans, you know, there was it, it felt like, you
know what, I think he's got to have something of his own that
he's holding that he's that's a place where he allows himself
like some freedom. I mean, that was ultimately the
big thing with Josh is like I found even playing him, even
talking about him, I start to go back into my throat.
Like this because. He was like such a strangled
character. I actually had to do work with
somebody to be like, I don't, I'm this thing is strangling me
too much. I don't know why, you know, that
happens. And it's it's, I think it's just
a real testament to his writing, which is that it's just as a
response that it creates in me when I start thinking about him
and his life and how things go. It's just everything gets tight.
Yeah, I think that's like a common thing with all I That's
very relatable. But all the characters in Beef
have a way of feeling really trapped, you know, by, by a life
that they built for themselves, you know, or by.
Yeah, these, these constructions, right, these
constructs of identity and of life and of surroundings and of
goals and, and inevitably like everything that is constructed
falls apart at some point. What was it like working with
Kaylee and Charles? They were so great.
I mean, I've been a huge fan of Kaylee's actually for a while.
Remember seeing her in Devs, which is Alex Garland.
He did this show and she played like a little boy, or not that
little, but like a teenage boy. Oh wow.
Who who is he? And it's like, actually, it's
Kaylee's Fanny. And I was like, this is an
incredible, incredible performance.
And she was she's great. She, I mean, that scene that we
get to do at the beverage cart, like when on the golf course,
you know, it was like one of the first scenes.
It's so fun, yeah. Because she's not saying
anything. No, no, it's just.
Yeah, just. Twitchy and like trying to you
know, yeah, say the right thing you.
Know and then she just really goes on the journey yeah of
being just like corrupted. Yeah, yeah, you see that.
So, you know, she was fantastic. And then Charles is such a
Mensch, is like such a beautiful soul, like so funny as well.
And and he's great. I think I just, I find that the
character that he made just indelible.
And so he's just, he's so great. He's pitch perfect in this
thing. I I really, yeah.
I love working with him. The speech you give to Charles
after you do Bufo and like, I love that.
I love the Bufo scene so much. And when you're, they do the
like what you're seeing and then they cut to you just on the
ground like like when and your hand, it's like, and you're on
the ground and the way you're like again, I mean, when you do
psychedelics, it's not fucking cute.
Like like with masturbating like people and like a lot of times
again, when they, when on TV, when they masturbate, they like
are feeling their hair and they're like going like this.
I'm like, no one is doing that. Like your fists are clenched.
It's like a tense experience and like a lot of times with
psychedelics, like when you're position, when you're positioned
like that and doing that, I'm like, that's exactly you look
like a squid on the floor. That's like out of water.
That's, that's exactly what I, I know I look like that in Joshua
Tree at that Airbnb, you know, so it's I was like, who made
that decision? Well, that was thankfully, I
mean, this, you know, YouTube is an amazing place.
So I was like, there's gotta be people on Bufo on YouTube.
Uh huh. And so I went down a rabbit hole
and I found somebody making that exact sound, going like bubbling
saliva, you know, and then and then read more about it.
And like, it can give seizures and it can give different kinds
of, you know, the reactions. There's lots of different
reactions, especially if people start having a freak out.
Yeah. And so there's some videos.
But there's a way and that feels like that when you're doing that
was like, there's a way that feels good.
Yeah, yeah, you're just very. Free and channelling.
Yeah, like that guy. Like a baby, like whatever,
whatever you're like experiencing where it's like, it
can be exhilarating, it can be like a big release or whatever.
But I was like that. Is it's an animal release?
Yeah. It's like an animal.
That's why it was like, it was like a true, like a sea
creature. I was like, this is really like
that fluttering. I was like, oh, this is very,
very real. Well, the way that you guys did
that whole psychedelic scene was so also very beautiful, you
know, and, and. So deep and.
I mean, it's, it lifts in such an amazing way, that part.
So that I don't know if Sonny told you, we didn't know we were
what we were doing, I think until a week before.
OK, see I'm seeing a pattern here.
Seeing a pattern. Here, Sunny Lee.
And then and then and then and then all of a sudden we were
just in that that National Park or forest.
And I was like, OK, I guess, no, no time to fight, no time.
That's his trick. I mean, we were in Korea like.
Shooting. Where you going to go?
Yeah. You going to complain too?
Yeah, nobody. Get those.
Get those pages. Here.
But it's kind of good, yeah, you know.
Yeah. And especially at the, at what
point in the shoot did you guys shoot that?
Was that towards the end? That was at the.
End. That was at the end, yeah.
So there's some trust at that point too, that you know what's
what. Yeah, well, at that point too,
it was. I had worked with Sonny before.
What did you do? He was a writer on this
animation show I did with Ohio. You're former You're a former Co
star for at the card counter Tiffany Haddish and I used to
play these best friends who were birds Tiffany.
I have to say it was very funny that OK, so that I love Tiffany
and she's one of my dear friends.
That trailer. OK.
I laughed so hard. When there's the glass between
you and there's the shot. Really good.
Do you know I'm talking about Yeah.
And then her long. The credits start to go over the
what? What is this movie?
What is this? What is?
This alternate. Paul Schrader, man, he's a wacky
dude, yeah. Well, and dance and her long
fingernails shaking This, this is like hilarious combination.
So Sonny wrote on that. We've told this story a million
times, but he he had wanted to do this, you know, show about a
road rage incident he had with this guy and he wanted Steven in
it. And he always pictured the
opposite character, Stanley Tucci.
Did he tell you that? I think I'd heard that.
Yeah, Oh yeah. And then and then I randomly had
a conversation with Sunny during COVID.
I'm sure it's been your issue. The whole career is always.
Stanley Tucci or me. I know it's like some women are
like that. Jessie Buckley, always.
And I'm like Stanley. I wanted, I wanted that.
I wanted that pasta show, but I wanted to play the killer in The
Lovely Bones. Is he the killer in The Lovely
Bones? He was.
The killer in. Love.
So then I talked to Sunny one day during COVID and he was
like, you know, this whole time I wanted Stanley Tucci.
But now I think it would be a lot more interesting if it was
you. And I was like, Oh my gosh, yes.
I would like. It's been my dream to work with
Steven, and you're such a fantastic writer.
That would be amazing to collaborate with you guys.
Yeah, I've never done anything like that before.
And then once we started actually getting into it, I was
like, what have I done? But it was great and I I mean,
it was one of the best experiences of my life just
because of how collaborative it was.
And then like, I don't want to get like too woo woo, but like I
do feel very I mean, those guys and I still remain very close.
You know, it really is, I imagine and I hope to have the
kind of working relationship that you have with Carrie for
like years to come with Steven, you know, just because you, you
really don't find that every day.
You know, I used to think when people would talk about
chemistry, I always thought it was like, I always thought it
was like a romantic sexual thing.
But it's really not that at all. No, I think it's more about
ease, You know, it's like I, I remember sometimes doing
auditions, I remember I was doing like whatever, it was a
play and I'd already been cast. I had to read with a lot of
people coming in and, and sometimes like I couldn't tell
who was better, just sometimes it was way easier to do the
scenes and sometimes it was a lot harder.
And not because they were necessarily worse hackers, not
there was just something that made it like easy.
You know, that's a It's rare. OK.
Is that it? Yeah.
Do we want a more nice conclusion?
OK, great. It'll just fade out on us
talking.