Hi there. I'm Kyle McLaughlin.
And I'm Benito Skinner. And this is really, and this is
the 824 podcast. Welcome to our podcast.
You've done a lot of podcasts. I've done a lot of podcasts.
You and Mary, right? I mean.
Yes, your kids are really we're in the cut with this.
You guys are in the I'm so you'll have to help the old man.
You're going to be just fine. I I really was telling them
before I am losing words all the time.
I am not good at speaking anymore What happened?
Well, you. Just you've exhausted that
muscle. Talking can get really hard.
That's why I, you know, brought you here today.
Oh, good, talk about that. Hey Daddy, what do I need?
To see you. It's so nice to see you.
Too. I love this, This is heaven.
I am so first of all, I'm so excited for you and, and the
work and the effort you've put into this and your bravery, of
course, but you do it with such heart.
You know, it's it's the show is hilarious, but there's not like
a a mean bone in it, you know what I mean?
There's there's some poking and edging a little edge, of course,
but it's it's comes from a really, really gentle, warm,
loving place. And also, I think you allow
these characters who could very easily become one-dimensional,
many more layers, and that's not easy to do.
I thank you so much. I mean, you are literally one of
my heroes, so it is always that you know that.
I left my Cape I well of. Course I I've never been.
More nervous than the day when you were coming to set because I
knew we were going to do our scene in the room where you're
trying on all my clothes and. I.
I could have lost a few more pounds for that, I just want to
say. Hey, I thought you look
fantastic. I go shit, I got it from my dad.
I looked at you as like, damn it, fuck.
No, that's all I did for that's all I did for eight months.
You were busy. You were.
You were booking other things. No, I just, and immediately I
think being in that trailer with you and you getting fitted for
Invisalign, I was like, this is a true artist, the way you made
a meal of that. And I think you didn't judge in
me. I think you didn't judge the
character too. I think some people come in and
I'm like, I think what what is on screen and what I see in you
is a dad that also just really wants to be loved so.
Dearly by his kids and it's like doesn't know where to put that
love and where to put this. Past applause that he got and.
He's not getting it anymore. And what?
Does that feel like for a man I don't know?
Well, it's funny you say that because I have a, my son Callum
is almost 17 and I'm definitely entering that phase.
It's, you know, I'm an older dad, you know, so, so I'm not,
it's not that I'm trying to keep up by any means.
I mean, but I but I want to at least be present and around and
understand a little bit, you know, and I had the most, the
best wake up call, which was this past weekend.
We were invited up. Desiree's, one of her clients
rented out Surf Ranch, which is Kelly Slater's facility up
Northwest Snow. OK.
So we were guests. It was fantastic.
Callum is a surfer. He's been surfing for four or
five years now. OK, let's go.
Ever since we moved out from New York, he's become California
volleyball. I love that.
You know, I've been rewatching The OC, so this is huge.
OK, we'll talk about it later. Yeah, OK, good.
But anyway, he so we get there and it's quite an amazing place
and a lovely, lovely hospitality, just really
beautiful. And it's the first day.
So yeah, I am not a surfer. I mean, I have tried and it is
just awful embarrassing. Yeah.
That's it's not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
So I see my son. I'm on the wave runner watching
him. I'm just going, Oh, my God, He
just up and he's down the wave and he's so elegant.
He's 65. Yeah.
So he's tough as a surfer, but he looks so great on the board.
And he's. Yeah, on a board.
Oh, my. He's on the board.
Yeah. And so then it's my turn and I
literally, I have the guy there next to me.
I am nearly falling like he's grabbing me to keep me on the
board. I'm looking at myself going that
is just an old man who shouldn't be on a surfboard.
And that was my And that was my sort of wake up call.
I was like, and that happened this past weekend.
I was like, shit. No, that's John.
I love it. I'm going.
We're still. Damn, it's yeah and we're
wearing. Clothes.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was.
It definitely was. I was like, oh, we're echoing my
life now. Does he does he talk to you
about acting at all or is he like, has he consumed the work?
This is my thing where I think maybe because my boyfriend
recently said like, oh it's going to be so fun for our kids
one day to see this. And I'm like I.
Bet they won't fucking care. That's what I hear from
everyone, that baby. He doesn't.
He doesn't really care.
It's like he's like, oh, Dad, yeah, that was in.
He hasn't seen a single thing I've done.
I mean, there are many things that he can't see yet.
I mean, we'll always get you to the age.
Now we can. He hasn't seen Dune.
We don't have Dune. No, I don't think anything.
He's not a Sex in the City head. No, God damn it, he doesn't.
Yeah, no, yeah. No Desperate Housewives.
He doesn't really care. And I'm like, God, that's
totally great. That's totally fine.
I want him, his journey to be his own.
And, you know, kids at school mention something or your dad
was in this or something like that.
He's like, yeah, but he's just like, you know, which I really
actually I like. Yeah, I like it.
It's probably nice. Yeah, Yeah.
Don't have to worry. Your carrier or, you know, I
mean, he's he's a superstar on his own, right.
And it's. And I hope, you know, I'm
getting jealous. I thought it was your son.
This is so that's really fucked up.
I, I'm so excited you're here and, and I'm just kind of
leading this because I have so many things I want to.
Ask you OK that I was almost scared to on set cuz I'm like.
And I was just talking about this with Wally, who plays
Carmen in the. Show, she's delightful.
I loved oh, you guys just didn't interview together.
It was. I loved it so much.
She's so great. And I came into it just like,
tell me about you. I don't really know you, you
know, 'cause we didn't really have anything together apart
from the one scene of the dinner table.
But you know and. Which she's silent for the whole
thing. Yeah, it's not even like you're
just. The observer she's.
Just looking at us. Which is that scene is really
funny. But she's yeah, she's wonderful.
And and I love the conversation. It's intelligent and she's
beautiful. I wanted to know her process and
she's he's very thoughtful. And the fact that she's been
writing for so long, I know it was a great.
It was a great to learn about her.
But we were talking about it and we were like, we had this moment
on set where we thought maybe because the show I the show was
overcompensating and that we got you and Connie really big
trailers because we thought like, I remember you'd be.
I walked in. I was.
Like what the hell you were like in no hot tub?
And that's like, that's my daddy.
I'm like, I'm obsessed with him. But I was like, so we didn't
know if you guys were going to be in holding with us under the
tent. And so then when?
You were, it was just Wally and I between you and Connie.
And I was like, I can't believe this is really fucking
happening. Like I can't believe you guys
said yes. So like there's so many things I
wanted to ask you, but was like, I don't want to bother him.
Like he's an actor. An actor prepares.
Oh, so sweet, no, so sweet. I I I love that you wrote such a
nice thing and that really appealed to me.
And I also it. Makes me so.
Hush. I just, I simply read the script
and I was like, this is really funny and I know and I knew some
of the people involved. I was like, I'm like, let's go.
You at that TV? I think about that TV, remember?
That was well, someone just asked me when did you break the
most? And I was thinking one of them
was when you turn and you go look at this.
Thing. Imagine March Madness on this
thing. Yeah.
Do the big mouth open I It's probably.
That in the Invisalign, in the in the.
Glass. Oh, God, I remember doing that.
And I remember them saying, I think we're gonna need to have a
saliva Wrangler for you, you know, because we're gonna need
to put some saliva in there to make it, you know, stringy.
And I'm like, think we're gonna be OK We're here.
So that's all natural. We're working.
Well, yeah, that's me. That's me working through the
character. That's an actor.
Yeah. And that's just create the
saliva. And then it just.
How incredible I get to be. There for take after.
Take Yeah, I love and this dyed. Hair that you have, we have to
talk about this. So what's this for?
Fallout. So Fallout, Yeah, so.
Because I want it for season 2 if we get one.
I mean this is. Perfect.
We're ready to go. Cool.
Yeah, I had to do this for color the hair for another thing that
I did that was called the sensitive kind.
Now it's called the lowdown. And I shot the pilot and my hair
was white and I told the director, I said, you know, we
can I can go back, but I you know, what do you think?
And I said I and I and I said there is a world which the in
which the character would dye his hair because he's he's
somewhat vain. He's a politician.
He's trying to appeal to a younger voter.
Yeah. So I saw that he's and he's sort
of let me think about it. And then he wrote it in.
So it's me and Jean Triplehorn. And she's dying my hair.
Yeah. And I love it.
And it's so wrong and right at the same time.
But I've been. Yeah, I've been.
I've been back with the color now so.
Because I'm thinking I go blonde Season 2, you know it's.
Like I'm gay, so I that's the first.
Thing OK full full honor like more of.
AI think it would I would maybe do it and then it'd be terrible.
It'd be that kind of orangey yellow and.
Queen. And then I'm like, I feel like
you. I want Mary Beth to go brunette
again. Yeah, you find that die in her
bathroom. And yeah, let her.
I think, and again, I think the character, his journey would
support it. He wants to be young, you know
what I mean? He's doing invisible.
Why not? He's not done.
He's like, this is his new Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
You said season 2, so have they said anything yet or are?
They they haven't said anything yet, I think, or.
Anything that you can say? Maybe you can't.
Say, yeah, I probably, I mean, honestly, I haven't heard.
Anything. So they have five seasons that
they've purchased. So they yes.
So we're, you know, we're, we're shooting them all at the same
time. Yes, good block for block
shooting those. That would be really great,
yeah. Yeah, I, I don't know anything,
but I think I, I feel so great about where it landed.
I'm so proud of it. And I really can't believe the
people that are in it. Like I still watch it and I,
it's so insane to me that you're in this because I, I, I was
trying to think before I saw you today of like my experience with
your work and what I saw first. And I think the first thing I
saw in high school, I took this class that was called.
It was something of like for seniors in in high school that
they got to do like a film class.
And so we watched Blue Velvet. Oh yeah.
And I think that was like my first experience with it and
I've never been so. And this was like, also I I just
found Lana Del Rey, so. It's kind of like living in
this, very like lynching. World at the time.
And it completely rocked my world and I in a way that I and
I think I speak for so many people listening to this and and
just everyone and when I say I'm so.
Sorry about your friend and you had.
The most beautiful post about it, Oh my God and I.
Thank you. If if you're comfortable talking
about it, I would. Love to hear how.
Because that was. No, it was.
Dune was first. Dune was first, yeah.
So was the. Day for Dune and then was cast
and we worked together on that for seven months in Mexico City.
And so that the friendship started, the other working
relationship started there, and then Dune came out and was not
received well. Sorry, it's iconic.
Have you seen the new ones? I've seen the new ones.
Yeah. I like the new ones, yeah.
Yeah. I mean, I love that book so much
and that story. It's like.
I'm actually like I've read it not even not for me, but I did
like hard. I've seen all the.
Movies OK well that's you got it that's fine between the two but
it was yeah. And he bless his heart came back
to me for Blue Velvet. You know we we did this thing
together came out to be a disaster.
He didn't have to return to me I was at the time in in Hollywood.
I was kind of like, it was a, yeah, desolate sort of situation
after that. I've been there, yeah, he gave.
Assistant roles have I read for over the years.
No. What am I gonna do now?
Yeah, but he came back and and then we went off to shoot Blue
Velvet, which was really fun. Yeah, we're just shooting we.
Shot in Wilmington, NC and it was Laura Dern, Isabella
Rossellini, myself, David Lynch, Dennis Hopper.
And we were like a little band of, you know, it's like Dune was
a whole different experience. That was like a giant circus of
a million parts. And Blue Velvet was kind of more
what filmmaking is really about. We're small, we're independent,
no one's paying much attention to us, and we're just kind of
making this thing kind of like we were just out doing a thing,
you know, we. Were just at the house in
Toronto. The house in Toronto, yeah.
Doing our stuff, yeah. So it was so that and that that
journey was was magical and for any NUM for a number of reasons
and kind of helped rejuvenate where I was at the time, you
know, and then that kind of led to other things.
And then Twin Peaks, of course, you know, that sort of shot it
out. I mean that is.
That's that was amazing. Have you rewatched any of them
recently or? I think I saw you at Vidiots,
right? Yeah, you did a screening there.
You just showed up. Can you watch your own work or
no? Yeah, yeah, Yeah, I can.
I mean, that's so long ago now. I look at it and like, don't
even know who that person is in a way, but it's really fun to
see. And I'm going to go to London on
June 15th and the BFI, the British Film Institute, is going
to screen the first, the pilot episode, which hasn't on a big
screen, which hasn't been done forever.
Probably since premiere. Yeah, yeah.
So that'll be fun. So I'm looking forward to that.
That'll be really, that'll be really good.
But no, I, I, I haven't really, you know.
And I mean, there are whole episodes.
I'm like, I don't. Remember.
Oh, I'm sure even even now I just.
Shot this and. I'm kind of like, people will
bring up a scene and I get like, OK, I got it.
Yeah, I've seen it 200 times at this.
Point we in the edit but I'm like I don't even know what the.
Fuck, I'm like. Remember, or people will quote a
joke back to me and I just look at them and they think I'm like,
you know, an absolute bemo. They're like, oh, you didn't
even write it. I'm like, no, I can't even
register. Yeah, I'm like, I've no.
Oh my God. What was the?
The process like for that first time when he met you for Dune,
like was it just you came in and auditioned and then that was it
or? Was no, David does the beautiful
thing about David is he doesn't he doesn't audition people.
So Dune was a little bit different from the other from
the other films. IA casting agent saw me,
auditioned me, taped me in Seattle in hotel room, you know,
and there was a chair outside with some sides.
She was inside with a little camera like these ones here.
And she was so kind and so nice and she filmed me and I said,
how does this work? What happens now?
And she said, well, I take the she was French.
I take the tape to doing French now, you know, it is a thing.
I take down the show, David Lynch and Rafael.
I have to go to San Francisco and audition people there.
And I said, so, you know, in my do I have a chance with this?
And she said, well, unless I find someone in San Francisco,
you know, maybe it's possible. Yeah.
She was, you know, positive. And I was like, OK, great.
Means the world. And I was like, you know, I go
back to my little. I was doing a play at the Empty
Space Theater, Tartouf. We were doing a different
adaptation of Tartouf. And so I went, you know, back to
work. I was like, OK, we'll see what
happens. And a few days later, they said
we, you know, they saw the tape. I'd like to bring you down.
So they put me on a plane. They flew me from Seattle to LA
So I go from like January in Seattle to January in LA, 2
completely different climates. Yes, of course.
And I was like, this is nice down here.
And then I met David on at the lot at Universal and one of the
little bungalows and we just had a conversation.
So we spoke for about 20 minutes.
And at the end of it he said here, here's the script, learn,
you know, 5 or 6 scenes, these scenes and then come back and
we'll screen test. And I was like, sure.
Like I do this every day. Yeah.
And I was like, that was the first film script I've ever
read. Of course.
Yeah, You're like screen test. Yeah, I love a screen test.
Sure. Can read.
Yeah, I can do anything. So went back to Seattle, learned
the scenes, came back down a few days later and, and I screen
tested and he kind of, we did a little directing and he was,
that's kind of where it started. That was like we realized, oh,
this is actually, we really get along, you know, and it really
made sense and it just took off from there.
Pretty amazing. That's amazing.
I mean, to be his muse of sorts is like, that's I mean, I was
that's so major. Very I mean, and very so.
Lucky. Thank you.
Oh my. God, thank you.
Is there a favorite thing that you did with him?
Not to. You know you don't have.
To I mean, I am curious. They were all they were all
great. I think in the early years, like
Dune. I love Dune, but you're like, I
think it when I first started, I didn't really understand or
appreciate kind of who I was working with is like, it was
David, you know, I was like, we're doing and then I'll work
with a structure and a structure.
And then as I as my career kind of, you know, moved around, I
was like, you know what? That was an incredibly special
relationship and we came back and then we did Twin Peaks
together and then got to do the return together.
And I think that probably just because it was I knew, you know,
I mean, I had a level of appreciation for every day that
I worked. I was just so grateful and I got
to be with David and we got to create this kind of crazy world.
And I said this is just hold on to this because this is not
gonna happen again. I think I knew.
And so it was that kind of magic.
Yeah. It was pretty.
That's so beautiful. He was pretty.
He was pretty, pretty nice. So.
But I wanna ask about you. So I wanna find out a little bit
more. I had to get that.
We'll talk about Sex in the City next.
Okay. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, but you
okay. I just need.
I'm like they're so. I said this to Allie before I
go, oh, now I can. Now I get him.
Now he's Trav. He's luck.
Dude, you. Cannot get.
Sorry, this is it. Oh.
Sweet, sweet. But I'm, I'm it's, it's so
interesting to me that you had this idea you you ran with this
idea, you, you worked this idea. You believed in this idea.
You have partners in this. Yeah, of course, you know, to
help, but also you're spearheading it, you know, and,
you know, talk to me if you can talk to me a little bit about,
you know, the why, where that came from, what the desire was.
How were you? Did you see this story has to be
told or did you feel, you know what this.
Tell me what you think. Yeah.
I, it's so interesting. I was trying to think of like,
why I thought that this was on the menu, you know, because I, I
grew up in Idaho, you know, they're not.
We can talk about that too. I'm from the.
Northwest, Yeah. It's like we're, you know,
you're not. Being almost the same.
Town I'm kind of like, wait, so it wasn't something that was
like around me, but. I remember around the time of me
writing this, which is about 6 years ago, you know, I had come
up on like Broad City and I think Fleabag had just come out
chewing gum. I just I.
Knew that people. Were were taking these, you
know, experiences in their life or, or, or not even and kind of
just creating their entire world that they wanted and and to say
this statement, whether it be about their life or something
else. But I was touring a stand up
show at the time called Overcompensating and I was
telling these stories of being in the closet and I was seeing
crowds really laugh with me. But then by the end, I think it
felt like kind of an emotional show.
And I was like, OK, I think there's something there that's.
A good indicator. Yeah, yeah.
I was like. OK, like there's, you know, just
a few shows where I did some, you know, some people were
crying or having coming to me after and being like, I felt
that way too. And I'm not even gay or things
like that. Or, you know, the straight guy
who comes to you after. A comedy show.
And it's like actually was almost kind of funny.
Like, you know, he's like. You got some jokes there.
Like that means the world. Hey, thank you.
So. Much.
But yeah, I just, I, I just saw it hit with people.
And at the time, I was making sketches on the Internet pretty
much, you know, weekly. Yeah.
And I had made this one of a Kardashian Christmas, which I'm
sure you've seen, yes. Please my you can skip that one,
but it did have. Structure and States and store.
Dress up. Oh, I've yeah.
Heidi's at Heidi's Halloween party.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I know.
Halloween's a big.
Anyway, continue with this. I'm making you be some this
year. Yeah, I'm going to get you into
it. I know you have it in you.
I've seen the TikTok. I can do it.
I but I just remember. Like feeling like, oh, OK, if I
can make these store. Like there was structure
happening in these sketches and I was naturally wanting to tell
stories. And I my agent called me and he
was like, I just watched that sketch.
Do you, you should write a script.
But I, I think coming from, you know, Idaho or even when I went
to Georgetown, I didn't study like script writing.
I'm like, I'm like, I'm not a writer.
And he's like, well, you've written all these sketches, so
that counts. I'm like, all right, well, I'll
just try it. And I kept coming back to this
idea of overcompensating and and meeting a woman in college who
was like this first person because she wasn't my family
where I was like, Oh, I, I can't do this kind of boy next door
football E thing around this woman.
I'm I'm starting to. And she was the first person I
came out to. And I just thought, OK, I love
that. And I.
I started, you know, kind of pitching myself jokes about
college. I could write it forever.
It was like the easiest world to build for me because I was like,
oh God, the pregames, The, you know, what happens with sex?
How? It feels it's just like I'm just
like this. Is delicious and at the time,
you know, sex lives of college girls wasn't out or anything.
So it wasn't I just didn't see college anywhere.
And I'm like, what a perfect place to mine comedy and also so
much emotion and heartbreak and and then thinking about I think
also the parents in it too, of how do you you know, the parents
that leave you at college who you reintroduce, you know, to a
new version of you over Thanksgiving and Christmas?
And that to me also was like, don't we all feel that every
time we see our parents or our family?
And even if like a year has passed, it's like, maybe I'm
different now, you know, maybe I'm not the person that I think
you want me to be. So that's, I think, the whole
show. But I wonder, it's sort of
remarkable because I wonder, do they?
I guess we'll see. We go.
Do they see you differently somehow or, or like, you know,
when I see my son, he's my son, Yeah.
You know, and he and he, you know, all the, you know, going
through puberty, going in the teen years now, and I'm sure
it'll continue. It's like that.
He's my son. You know what I mean?
That is a constant. You know, somehow there is.
I think that is the and it's so beautiful that you say that
because that really I think is the core of these relationships
that I think, you know, some people obviously come out and
are treated horribly and completely lose their their
family and that they have to find new families.
But I think there is something in the show where I think we're
trying to play it somewhere in the middle, which I think is you
haven't seen on screen in a way where it's, you know, I've only
seen some of these things lately where the parents are like
that's. Amazing.
And the dad's like joking about downloading Grinder and I'm
like, well, I just don't think that's the case because I think
there's also an emotional. Thing that the parents are going
through of yeah I thought I knew who my child was also.
You were going through all this and you didn't tell me, like,
what have I done? Yeah.
And I think that that is something in the.
You're asking the right questions because I think as we
continue, you know, let's hope. Yeah, please, because your,
because your instinct is to write deeper, you know what I
mean? It's to write layers.
You know what I mean? Everyone's got everyone's good,
bad, everyone's a mix, you know, of course everyone has
difficulty issues. What they're saying, what
they're doing is usually there's something behind that.
And I agree with you. I think it does.
It would take an adjustment. You have to.
And it's not as an acceptance of course, but there's also like,
you know, how did I not help or how did I?
Not know or my kid. Yeah.
So there's all this journey that I agree.
I don't think we've really seen it the way you're describing it.
You know, it's going to be funny.
It has to be funny, but of course it's going to be.
Heartfelt because it's funny watching a parent try then
almost too much, too much. There's such a beautiful
overcomment of like, now you know, Sometimes it is so funny.
My dad will like wear pride merch.
You know where it's like and that to me feels so much like
the character of like now there's kind of an athleticism
to. It you had mentioned that
before, showmanship. And we're going to go to the
game, yeah. Yeah, it's like I have my North
Face, you know, pride collab. Let's fucking go.
So that I think is and. And also it being this thing
with the parents where each parent has a different
relationship to the coming out. I love that and what you know.
I love that because you made that choice and we were filming.
There were some scenes when we were in together, Connie was in
and we were both in together and you and then a couple scenes you
sort of say, you know, we're just gonna separate this out.
And that is so true. I mean, my wife and I, each of
us have have a different relationship.
We have a relationship together with our son and then each of us
has our own individual relationship.
And it's so important. I, I saw that.
I was like, oh, that was a really good choice.
Oh. Thank you.
And I think that in doing that, I think I also want to see what
your relationship is like with Grace, you know my sister and
the like that too. It's like you see inklings of
it. But yeah, something about I
think it being disruptive to a family and that at the time I
think creates so much anger in the person who's been closeted
because it's like, why isn't everyone celebrating?
And and, and I thought that when I came out because I had, you
know, my parents were, were pretty surprised, as crazy as
that sounds given who I am now. But, you know, I really did kind
of hunker down and like, I, I was like, I'm doing this.
I'm I'm pretending to have girlfriends.
I'm playing football. I'm like, I'm and, and I watched
their confusion with anger, I think.
And now having some space from it, I think I am excited to tell
a story of, yeah, at times the parents get it wrong.
But I do think that there is there are conversations and and
things that I think both sides are scared to have.
But in the end, I think it you do get to a place where it's
also about parents meeting an adult in their kid for the first
time. And that's not who they had in
high school. This is like a truly someone
who's. Separate individual moving in
their own direction. Yeah, creating.
Creating their own. Which is not just, yeah, a queer
story. That to me is universal.
It's like there's that would also be the parents experience
with Grace too. It's the transition.
We're sitting here with a a junior in in high school and
going coming. Great, here we go.
What is he? Yeah.
What's he interested in? What's the?
He, you know, he's at a very difficult school.
He's but he loves the challenge. He's very social, very verbal
and he's, I don't want to embarrass him too much, but
he's, he grew up in, in New York.
So his first, yeah, six years of 6th grades were in New York.
And then we came out to Los Angeles and he immediately
became a California kid. He's like volleyball.
He started playing volleyball, beach, beach and indoor.
I would have loved Can you imagine me?
You could do it. Come on, get us.
Come on. Did you play volleyball?
I again, I played when I was a kid.
I played at my at the YMCA. When I was in high school,
great. There was no such thing as a
team or anything where I'm from. Yakima little smaller, but
smaller. Love that you're from.
Yeah, it is smaller, which yeah. It's tiny, yeah, but but it's
sort of the same, same sort of neck of the woods.
But and then but never tried surfing, you know, But he's he's
a great volleyball player and he's a really talented surfer.
And so it's so fun to watch that and to watch the progression.
And he started when he was about 12 or 13, I think, you know,
just a little kid kind of falling off the board, you know,
And now he is like really capable so.
Was there any piece of you that was sad that he wasn't going
into the arts or anything like that?
Or are you just like, you know what?
Not really. Maybe that's great.
I'm I'm kind of actually. That's kind of why I'm like, I
want my kids to be in finance or something.
I'm like, I I'm yeah, don't do this.
I can't. The thought of someone
commenting something awful to my.
Child yeah, it would make you like, yeah, like, or I mean, I
guess they would just be in an office and then someone would
say it to their face, but I'm just like.
Yeah, criticism. I think I'm good on that.
I don't know, it's a weird thing because I think I, I think about
my journey and when I was in high school, you know, I did
plays, We did the musical. It was kind of a thing everybody
did. Yeah.
You didn't take the drama class in high school.
That was the thing that was for a course that was not going to
happen. Yeah.
But you did the plays, you did the musicals.
And then I went to college and I was like, OK, I pledged.
I was a beta for about, yeah, six months.
And I was like, this is crazy. And I was like, I don't think
this is my milieu, you know what I mean?
For any number of reasons. But great guys.
But I was like, I need a little more.
I'm not a, you know, it felt just like wearing a giant mosh
pit. And I was like, Nah, not buddy
me, but and I and I left school and I went back home and I, I
worked in this lumber mill cutting wood in Yakima and was
making money because that summer I decided I was going to go to
summer stock and see what it was all about.
It was in North Carolina and I got the money.
I flew to North Carolina and I had my first kind of real stage
experience. We did a, there was a play there
look, Homewood Angel and I played Eugene.
It was an Equity theater. I was the lead of this thing and
I just, I was like, oh, damn. I like the, I mean, I knew I
liked it in high school, but I said I think I might be decent
at this. It was the only thing, the only
I tried so many things. It was only me too.
Kind of. Yeah, right.
OK. And I came back and I went in
and I came back to school with a new direction, a new focus.
And I got into a training program and and it just and that
and I loved it. I loved it.
What did you, what did you, what was your experience?
I'm curious, 'cause you. So Boise grew up high school
there, Jock doing everything, did it all.
Wide receiver. Wide receiver.
And then, yeah, that's a good position.
It was. I loved that position.
I will say I, you know, I'm sure there are gay people out there
who can catch. Balls.
But I and I'm happy to have that that audio clipped.
Thank you. But I yeah, that was the one
thing looking and looking and looking at, you know, when we we
have. That scene I was, I was more
nervous for that scene than any other in the because I go if I
can't fucking catch this. Like the show, the show folds in
on itself. Very.
Quickly. Yeah, God, I love that.
Hey, freshman, that too. And not laughing at you doing
that, but yeah, I, I. I did that because I knew.
I just thought, you know, if I am in a play, everyone's going
to know I'm gay because they're going to see how.
Much I fucking love it. Like there's something about
that where I'm like and I I think there's a a freedom in in
acting too and and when you're in it that I think I would lose
control. And that's for me, that whole.
Time of my life was control, and so that's a.
Hardcore man. Oh, yeah.
I I really, I think I feel like it's, it's not, it's AI think
everybody is in high school is under some kind of control, of
course, right. And you, you know, he's like,
this is not this is cool, this is not cool.
There's nobody that's just like, and if they are, they're like,
they're kind of weird. Yeah, absolute freaks.
Yeah, yeah. You know it's.
Testing waters all the time even in I think that's what the 1st 2
episodes of the show are and kind of the whole thing.
But yeah, I think it is yeah. The OK I'm going to do this.
Is this a little too far yeah. We'll ease it back.
You know, like is this And then I would have this confusion
where by the time I got to college, I was like, wait, OK,
so you're saying that's gay, but then this thing isn't gay.
But then you like slap that guy in the ass every day and that's
not gay. I'm like I you guys are
confusing. Me, I got to just we got to
figure this out. I'm like, I can't do this.
But your. Definitions were.
All yeah, I'm like, I don't know I'm like so we can kiss on the
lips and that's not gay like I need someone to like help me out
here, but I it was my. Senior year where I I just was
like, you know what? I just kind of have to come out
like, I can't do this anymore. Yeah.
And it was almost through just making little sketches and, and,
and I was in the film school at OK Georgetown, and people asked
me to be in their short films. And I would do that.
And I would act in these like, you know, student short for
which I'm like, I'm sure I'm waiting.
For we've got to find those. We've got to find the
compliment. We actually don't.
Can we please, Can we put someone on that?
And they're, you know. Maybe can they help us out?
They're student films, so they're.
So dramatic, you know what I mean?
It's like they deal with like rape trauma, like suicide, It's
like. In a 5 minute short, which was
yeah, but I and I thought like. Those days I was like, this is
the happiest I've ever been. Like I'm finally I get to be in
front of a camera. And I think once I wasn't
putting a hat on on a hat and being in the closet and then
trying to do this like I'm a straight guy act, you know,
instead, I think, yeah, I just. And then I started posting it
all on the Internet and that's kind of writing sketches and and
playing with character and, and I think that was at the same
time I was coming out. So you almost see a person who's
kind of, I think. Kind of writing yourself out of
one attitude and saying this is who I am.
Exactly. And testing it through
character, almost, Yeah. And being like, maybe I'm not
ready to show you me yet, but I could show you a Southern woman.
Yeah, you know, and I'm like, maybe an impression of Timothy
Chalamet will get me there. You know, I'm like, I can't, I
can't do me yet. But things like that that I.
And then I, you know, and then I found stand up and that too, I
think was something that felt like I think I've never done
theater and I really want to at some point because I think it
almost the combination of everything I've done is that and
so many, you know, doing stand up and now acting.
But it. Yeah.
And then it it fortunately, I started auditioning and a lot of
gay assistant roles A. Lot of bad auditions.
Holy shit. You know they don't.
No one ever trained. You how to audition.
That's the issue. That's what I found through like
all of this. I'm like I.
Yeah, it's the worst. It's the worst place to be.
It's horrific. I remember I read something,
Tom, I think I. It's described to Tom Hanks.
I don't know if he said it or not, but he said he used to
treat auditions like mini performances.
Yeah. So he would get the script, he'd
learn it, and he'd go in his head.
He's OK for one afternoon only, from 2:00 to 3:00.
I am going to be on just doing this performance.
Come see me. I'm going to do this and I'm
going to do it. One show and that's it.
Yeah, we're done. So you'd think of it as like a
little performance and and he'd finish and said thank you very
much. And he'd leave.
And then he said, oh, you know what?
We got a second night. I get to go back and audition
again because they called me back.
And he'd go like, OK, I'm gonna go for one night, you know?
And Joe, he wow. OK in that way, he held kind of
held power. The power.
Yeah. You know, which is his show.
What you, what you need to have in that room, You know what I
mean? And confidence.
And. Those rooms, it's the hardest
thing to have. It's so hard.
Yeah, it's so hard. But let me go back because
you've mentioned stand up. And stand up to me is the most
naked way of, you know, you're standing in front of an audience
with a microphone and ain't nothing but you, no mic and the
audience. So yeah, this is the place to
hey, here I am. Hard to hide, I think in that.
Oh yeah, in that reality. I.
It's so funny, I got into it because I was making these
sketches and Carolines in New York this old I've been to.
Caroline yeah, which I love. Yeah, so sad.
I think it's close. It's close.
So sad. But they emailed me and they
said we're doing the New York Comedy Fest.
Do you have a show? We'd be interested if you have a
one man show. And I was like, well of course I
have, but I just needed to pay rent.
I was like, I don't have any. Fucking money.
So I was like, yeah, of course I got a show.
And I I just went on a stand up boot camp.
I was like, I and I LED with storytelling.
Yeah. And then I knew that because of
my videos. I was like, I do love joke
writing and I think I can do some characters on stage.
Yeah, but it. How did that go?
I mean obviously LED. It, it's so I, I, it sounds so
fake, but I in a way, I, I think it was the perfect time to be
doing it in New York. There were so many queer
comedians and women. They would all put me on shows
and let me try. And I, it's How I Met Mary Beth
and I just like, I got this one thing out of my system.
I think that was also now I'm, I'm being myself in front of
people and I'm, I, you know, I just started being with my
boyfriend at that time. So it was like I just had locked
into something and I and I love to perform.
Like I, there was something about making people laugh and,
and then coming up on the Internet, you know, I can't hear
real laughter. So hearing real laughter for the
first time. I mean, you're just like, no,
you're glutton. It's.
Like, I'm doing this every night and then you do a bad show and
then you're like, all right, well, that was.
A winner and then you do one good one and it sustains you for
six months. I swear to God, you're just
like. But.
It's like golf. Exactly, and that's what I was
going to say. It's just like, I knew that's
where you were going to go. I do, yeah.
Yeah. You hit.
You can, you know, you can play 17 terrible holes and the 18th
hole, you suddenly you hit the ball, you're like, God, this is
a great game. I I'm coming back tomorrow.
It is so. Strange, you sing, I say.
Golf I was. Thinking about it for season 2
because. All my siblings are college
golfers. No kidding.
I was a radio DJ, but my siblings were college golfers.
And so that makes sense. It kind of does, yeah.
There's not like tons to do, but I it is.
So my knowledge of golf is so bizarre to me, giving who I am,
but it's really helpful in in just meeting dads and
boyfriends. Yeah, Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I.
Can shoot the shit, we can talk about.
Phil Mickelson we can talk about.
Tigers, you know? Yeah.
Callaway Titleist. See, I've got all the hits.
You got the hits. Yeah.
Oh my. God, that's great.
How often do you golf? Oh God, it hasn't been much
recently. OK, sadly, but my son's getting
in, kind of getting into it, and he's 65, so it's a little bit
different. He's a little bit longer.
Clubs. Yeah, the clubs.
Are custom great? Swing arc and he can get the
ball a long ways. But I played high school golf in
Yakima. Wow, I did that.
Feels very Pacific Northwest to me it.
Is you know what I mean? Yeah.
That feels way before golf
school. I don't have golf school.
High school. But I mean, I think the new
thing is, yeah, every woman I meet their their husband is
golf, golfing every weekend and not hanging out with them in a
really. I think meaningful way there's
some I'm saying there's so there play golf.
Yeah, I'm like, isn't the weekend the one time you 2 could
spend time together? OK, that's cool.
That's interesting. Yeah, so anyway.
I'm so I, I know that so many people would come to my house
and kill me if I didn't talk to you about Sex and the City, OK?
Because this was the one thing that Mary Beth and I did get we
on the way to Charlie's concert in Toronto, We did get you to.
Ourselves, for a second, we were like, we have to talk about Trey
McDougal. Sorry like this is I'm just
curious your experience on that shit like how it came to you and
I, I know a little bit but now I need to hear it again.
Well, it was, yeah. So I was in New York.
I recently met my my wife to be at the time, and we were hanging
out and I think Michael Patrick King, who was a show owner,
Darren Stark, created the show. Michael Patrick King ran the
show and then took over. He they had reached out actually
and said, you know, kind of can we meet Kyle?
We have this idea for character and would he be interested in
this kind of thing? And I was kind of like, I went
to my wife and I said, I don't know, is this show Sex and the
City? I don't know, is this is this a
good show or a popular show? She's like, and I was kind of
like, I don't know if she's. Like you're doing it.
Yeah, She's like, you'll be on Smart Wife.
Yeah, OK. OK.
Well, thank her for me. So I went and I agreed to meet.
So I met with Michael and Jenny Bicks.
I don't know, writers. And we met in New York, in
Manhattan. We just had kind of sat down,
had kind of like a coffee or something.
And they were kind of and and I kind of got kind of more excited
by the idea because, you know, he's he's an Upper East Side.
He's a heart surgeon. You know, he's athletic.
You know, he's this and this. He's kind of the he'll be kind
of like the Prince Charming, you know, dude, this to one of the
girls. And I was like, this sounds, you
know, I could be good because I've been kind of not, not that
I've been battling the sort of Twin Peaks kind of odd guy, but
a little bit kind of like the casting was sort of like, I
mean, they were interesting things.
Was like, all I wanted to do is be like the lead guy, you know
what I mean? Yeah.
It's that's the guy. That's funny thing about who he
becomes. Give him that.
That's your first dad, is it? So this is, Yeah, I have
questions. About it?
No. No, no.
But yeah, yeah, yeah. So they said I was like, this is
great. So tell me a little bit.
And they were talking and talking and they were like, you
know, he's also, he's really close to his mother.
I was like, OK, I was close to mom.
Yeah, Bunny. And they said and he he's he's
got he's he's very basically impotent.
And I was like, I stood there and just like, motherfuckers,
yeah, they pulled me back. Hey, yeah.
And I was like, that's great. OK, You know what?
We're going to make this a serious thing.
We're going to deal with it. And of course, it was, you know,
all comedy. I.
But it was fun I. I think there's something about
that character to me, he is so complicated.
They give you so much. I mean, he then like only likes
like titty mags or something. Sorry if that's not correct.
And then he's like obsessed with those.
But then like there's something, I mean, psychologically there's
a lot going on. And then in the end, he's kind
of a hero. He gives her the apartment.
I don't know. I'm a, I'm a Trey McDougal head.
He, yeah, I think he's a, I think he's a king.
He's that's all. Thank.
You it's very awesome. It's when you approached it was
it is it that seriousness where you're like, we're not?
None of this is funny. It will only be funny in in me.
No, I totally, you know, you could tell it was funny, you
know, and and and but it was nice because they would write
that, you know, that they would turn the scene would be, you
know, there'd be some funny stuff going on and then it might
end like, Oh, that's that's a heart hurter, you know what I
mean? Like just you can't that they
did couldn't quite get together and they allowed us, Kristen and
I to to hit those beats. You know what I mean?
Which I think was was really nice amongst, you know, the jugs
magazine. Moment it's just so crazy.
It's like why that show is so incredible.
It's like you have her looking at you saying like I'm your wife
and I'm sexual and I love you and it's like you the titty man.
Yeah. Like that's just, it's just
perfect. I mean, it's really.
They're very clever. I'm and and the relationship
between you and Bunny with the arm touching too that what was
that like working with? Her, that was fun.
She was. She's made her.
Guts in that show, I mean, it's really, it's a an amazing
performance. Yeah, she's a great actress.
Yeah, she was a great actress. She would come in.
I think she lived. I think she was upstate or maybe
up north, the city a little bit. She would come in like working
stocks and Capri get her sands and kind of a thing.
And she was all like, I just came out of the you just came
out of the garden. You were just working in the
garden. They had nothing.
I was like, yeah, she's like. And she would transform into an
Upper East Side matron power with the smoking and the whole
thing that she had. And they just, they were like
the perfect little visual Nuggets between the two of us.
Me in the bathtub, she's sitting on the toilet smoking.
I mean, that's. Charlotte comes in, it's like.
That's heaven. But.
We and we're all like we all knew this is at this is
perfection. Yeah, because it's everything in
just a visual. And it's real.
I'm like there's. I believe all of it and like I
just, I think that the kilts as well, yeah, kind of like.
This like that, there's tradition.
In the family they borrowed. From McLaughlin, they said, oh,
let's make like Kim Scottish and this whole Scottish thing.
And I was like, that's great that one.
And then on the bed, I remember we were testing mattresses and
she was there and she was laying in between me and Charlotte as
we were testing the mattress. Perfect.
You just, you know, it's like we all get this is a very funny
image, you know, but but oh, she was Francis was wonderful,
really great actress and funny, So funny.
And Kristen's so funny. I'm obsessed with her.
She's amazing. Brilliant.
Yeah, the way she plays that part too of this, not the
conservativeness, but there's something really there's so
there's something so sad about all the stories.
I think that's I think I was so influenced by that in everything
that I love. And I think that's why I in the
show, I like things that get really sad because like they
just. I think it also aids the comedy
because there's something about, I think there's that episode,
I'm acting like I haven't seen it 12.
Times I'm like, let me tell you, I'm like episode 5, season 6,
but there's the. 2022.03. You make a face and I'm curious
to Yeah, but she's in. Is it town and country or?
Something and there's that moment and it's like Trey moved
out of the house, you know, a week later.
So and I just something like that.
I think that's what that show does.
So beautiful. They were really, they were
very. There were real moments.
I mean, everything was real, you know, the comedy was, you know,
a little bit arch, you know, immediately to tell the story.
But but the, but the, but the, but the, the love was there.
It just happened to be this thing that's kind of out of
their control a little bit, you know, and that's sad, you know,
'cause you see these people really could be together.
They should be together, you know, but.
Because there's that little, there's that brief kind of
couple episodes where then Trey wants to, like, hook up with her
everywhere, yeah. You know that.
Where I'm kind of like, what is going on with Trey?
We got to what do you remember? I mean, this was yeah, a bit
ago, so just. But do you remember being like
what did? What was your?
Take on that. Well, the crazy.
Thing is human. Problems.
Or you. Yeah, I mean, I think, but I
also think you kind of have to go with week by week because a
script would come in and often times I would find myself
reading it kind of like, OK, do I am I, do I, what am I doing in
this? Am I taking my clothes off?
Am I, what are they asking me to do?
And I was like, like, because I'm pretty shy and I was like,
OK, But each week, you know, there'll be a kind of a new
development to the character. So, you know, as you're
following along, you're kind of like, OK, I'm, I'm, I seem to be
heading in this direction. So this is what I'm doing.
And then, oh, OK, it's going to go down here.
But you just realize that all of this is the character.
You know what I mean? You're just finding different, I
don't know, veins to like. And that's a light.
I mean, you shot an order, right?
I mean, it's like you. We did.
Yeah, we did. You're almost seeing it.
Yeah. If like this is what it's like
to be a, you know, as a human of going to each of these things.
It's like, let's, that makes sense, you know, being like, all
right, he wouldn't do that because he did this, I think.
Sometimes I never say no. I mean, there's a case that we'd
like this is a little. I saw you with the top and
bottom Invisaligns, so this is I mean.
I know this about you. You know, all the way, all all
in. Of course, of course.
What do you? If you could do any kind of
project next, what's what is exciting to you right now?
What? What do you like?
I'm dying to play and no one's done it for me.
Well, the one thing, one thing that I'm really excited about
actually is this is this world. So I have a podcast that I'm
about to start. What are we, what's called?
What are we even doing? And it's, I'm interviewing, I'm
going to be talking to Wally and I'm going to be talking to, I
mean, a number of people kind of just to understand the
different, you know, the Gen. Z, the millennial, even Gen.
AI mean trying to trying to just talk to them about, you know,
what are you doing and what's what's happening?
What's important to you? You know, what are you what,
what, where's your creative source coming?
You know, just a little bit more about people that I, you know, I
want to learn, you know what I mean?
So it's curiosity that's driving that machine.
So that's, that's on the way right now.
And project wise, I mean, I, I'm always wanted to do some kind
of, you know, action, you know, character driven.
Action. Let's go do an action.
Can we do? That you know what?
Yeah. So Mission Impossible type. 5
yes. You know what I mean?
Yes, Dad and son, Yeah, going around.
Maybe a little smaller budget than the mission.
Of course, a little, but just a little.
Just a little. I love action for you.
I think that'd be amazing. It'd be fun, yeah.
You know, and I'm, I'm, I'm not getting any younger.
So it's time. And I'm not either.
We gotta do Season 2, don't I know it.
Yeah, like I gotta get writing. Yeah, I'm like, oh, I have it
ready, 'cause I'm ready. We don't have that much time.
If we get to do it, I'm like, let's go before we're they're
kicking us out of here, which is really fucked up.
Yeah. To talk to me and my dad like
that. I have.
To bring up, I have to bring up the Tik Toks because you, I
mean, it's a revolution. Thank you.
Thank. You and I think it's why I knew
that also you'd be perfect for this because I'm like, you know,
he loves to he you seem endlessly curious.
And yeah, and you. Know seeing you in a hot dog a
hot dog, a costume yeah that's that feels right well and my
favorite is the Lord of you with the headphones.
That was doing that early, very early on.
One of the first Oh yeah, I've been to Stanford.
I have just got a great group that I work with and Wells,
Maya, who's here with us and Maya, we love you and they are
just so creative so. And I'm like, let's, let's work
together. And they so they bring me these
ideas. We kind of we kind of tweak them
a little, flesh them out. But they are definitely once
they said, Hey, we got an idea and I said, that's brilliant.
They are tapped in hardcore in the social and I'm a little bit
on, you know, I sort of do what I can, but it's like, you know,
it's, it takes a lot of effort and they bring me some amazing
things that I am up for all the crazy.
But you're yeah. And you're good because we did
the Apple Dance on set. And in it, my boyfriend Terry,
he was like, you can tell. That Kyle knows the moves.
That he, I'm like, because we kind of had this bit that you
already didn't know what to do because she only had like a
second to learn it. And you kind of you, I see your
hands twitchy. I'm like, he knows.
He knows what he should be doing.
Well, Charlie's amazing. She is so unbelievably.
Mentioned. Have you gotten to see her in
the show yet? Oh, yes, yeah, no, she's, she's
incredible. She.
Really. Is I I.
I'm so and she's such a a fan of yours obviously but.
I. I think there's something about
her and her work that I'm I'm. It's been so fun to watch
everyone catch up with her, but they're going to get behind
again soon. We end bone Charlie.
That feels right. Perfect.
Yeah. This was so fun.
Thank you, I would enjoy it. So I adore you.
So nice, that's mutual. I cannot wait.
We have so much more to do.