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Hey and welcome back to the a24 
podcast. 

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If you've been listening for a 
while, you know, the format we 

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almost never pair two people 
from the same project together 

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and we encourage guests to talk 
about pretty much anything other

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than their movie or show. 
This conversation is a little 

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bit different. 
Knowing how close are we a stir 

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and Joaquin? 
Phoenix got during the grueling 

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production of bows afraid, we 
saw a rare opportunity to let a 

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director and actor speak 
candidly about They're creative 

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Dynamic and the very unique set 
of obstacles. 

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They created, and then overcame 
while on set, we hope you 

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enjoyed the episode and don't 
miss Bo is afraid opening this 

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weekend in theaters Nationwide. 
Hi, I'm Maria. 

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Esther and I am contractually 
obliged to do this podcast 4824 

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since they've funded all my 
movies, but they never give me 

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enough time and I'm Joaquin, 
Phoenix. 

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And I will not be speaking at 
all. 

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And I'm going to be putting 
everything on Ari. 

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Through this entire 
conversation. 

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And there's no point in me 
agreeing to do this because 

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Everybody knows. 
That t, we are. 

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Angels, are by one asshole. 
What? 

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That that, most truthful things 
that are walking, and then, hey,

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how are you hungover? 
Yeah, and I'm not over you, but 

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you're not, you just sick of it 
in this light, but they're not 

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at a goat. 
Well, well, I hope they feel 

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good. 
I mean there were a lot of 

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friends there, so I've had one 
friend that's in the movie and 

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they they texted I had a blast. 
That's good. 

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Yes, I don't know if that's said
that. 

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Is that is that says Is here. 
I don't know what the hell it 

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is. 
Yeah, it sounds like a variation

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on like, I'm at look great. 
Yeah, yeah, so this is what my 

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preference is for people. 
I know not to see anything. 

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What I meant just because I 
don't want to have to go through

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that process, right? 
Like that's the worst thing 

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about going to the formality. 
Screening is like the menu after

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as we will come up, they have to
say something. 

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It's always uncomfortable. 
Yeah, no. 

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And then yeah. 
It's I also just don't believe 

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anything unless somebody comes 
up and and they haven't been 

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like brought up right? 
And I tell me what they actually

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thought. 
But then I usually I find that 

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the people who have told me that
they don't like something, I 

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did, I like obsess over them and
the next thing I make I'm trying

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to please them. 
Uh-huh. 

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Which is really I think is a 
good policy to be honest as much

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as I can. 
Yes, I think so. 

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If they're still changes that 
can be made. 

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Yeah, you can offer some 
thoughts just not useful, right?

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But once it's done you just 
that's why you go I had a blast.

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Yeah yeah you got to say it when
they can actually still make the

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change otherwise you're just 
like haunting them. 

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Those villains. 
Yeah that I do think that once 

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somebody tells you what they 
really think especially if they 

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don't actually like something 
then if they ever do like 

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something that's like It's 
suddenly valuable run into you. 

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It's mostly valueless. 
When somebody says something 

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nice right? 
Yeah now yes no. 

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Sure. 
I mean--' also. 

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If somebody says if somebody 
says something like a compliment

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about something my impulses to 
say name, five other 

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performances, they got a really 
get burn movies, right? 

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Just so you can completely 
discount their their, their 

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Judgment. 
Yes. 

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Yes. 
If somebody ever does say 

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something nice about me, it's it
tends to be couched between two 

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other people that they like, 
right? 

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Like I might like it's not as I 
really like this. 

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It but like, oh if only that and
then this other thing that I 

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fucking hate doesn't to movies, 
I've loved in the last like, 

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five years took that night. 
Yeah, it's just, it's probably 

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best to not interact with your 
friends when they've seen, I'm 

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going to be afraid. 
That's, that's my opinion. 

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I had can. 
Tickets last night to invite 

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people. 
Did you invite new? 

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I know, buddy. 
Yeah. 

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No, of course not. 
It's also like do you want to 

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come and watch us pass feel so 
weird? 

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Ellen, Ellen, come see the 
movie. 

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No, especially in that context, 
you know, it's not really going 

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to see a movie. 
It's like, it's suddenly an 

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obligation. 
There's no good version of this 

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and then new, whatever the 
situation Thunder. 

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Why them? 
Hey, I know. 

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I know. 
Let them find you if they did. 

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You do like this? 
Don't tell you about if you do 

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go. 
See, I just don't tell me why, 

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anybody, who knows? 
You knows not to say anything 

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nice. 
We'll just anything. 

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I started really don't want to 
get into the discussion. 

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You tend to have like a window 
where like you can take 

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something in and then like the 
door, the door slams, you can 

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see it in the eyes. 
It's, there's like that you get 

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like sick suddenly. 
Yeah. 

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I don't know what, I don't know.
What what good comes of it. 

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Well, it's something that you 
want, right? 

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But then, once you get it, it's 
I don't know that it's something

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that Um, what I want, I want you
to be happy. 

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I want to feel like we're, we 
feel like we're getting the 

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stuff when we're working and 
then after that it's like you 

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want it to be received well 
enough to where you can keep 

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getting and you get another job 
right. 

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But beyond that I mean nothing 
anybody can say, whatever little

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up to like what the experience 
is. 

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So it's kind of like it's a 
strange talking about me and 

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something they need this three 
hour. 

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Film. 
It was like four months for us. 

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Yeah. 
If we're you much longer of 

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course. 
And any conversation just feels 

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like I don't know and if the 
laughter one thing that is a 

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little bit, I wouldn't say 
different about you but 

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something that's very specific 
about you is that you really do 

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need it to be in it experience. 
Meaning you need to kind the 

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flag. 
It feels like you become like 

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kind of chemically aligned with 
whatever you're doing and that 

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That's, that's not always the 
case and so I can imagine that 

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there's like almost no way to 
really detach The Experience on 

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set for you from whatever you're
seeing or rather that that they 

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can kind of maybe exist. 
Totally separately. 

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That's a completely different. 
Yeah. 

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And it's almost no real value 
and and convening in some ways, 

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right? 
But but you watched it, you wash

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it a couple times. 
I did know, I did. 

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I'd is it, huh? 
But I don't know what my the 

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feelings are so complex when I'm
watching his I'm a force 

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remembering what was happening 
in those does days, right? 

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You know, and the humbles 
nothing, you know, nothing is he

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can live up to that that the 
experience yeah that's like the 

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first month in the edit from me 
especially on this one. 

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I was very depressed kind of 
Snappy for the first month as we

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were like assembling it. 
But then the post process is so 

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long that I do get I'm not sure 
if it's like objectivity but But

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you know, but I separate from 
the experience of shooting the 

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film, but it takes a while it 
takes. 

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In this case, I think my bad 
mood lasted for like a month. 

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But it took me a few months to 
fully separate from those 

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memories because it was a very 
was a long. 

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I mean, it felt long it was it 
was like both not long enough 

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and like just very arduous that 
shoot. 

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Yeah. 
It was. 

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Yeah. 
Did you know that going into? 

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It was going to be that so 
difficult. 

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Yeah. 
Only because I knew what the 

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goal was. 
I knew that that I wanted to 

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make something like, really kind
of dense and big. 

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And, and when we were putting 
the schedule together, that it 

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dawned on me, that that every 
day was going to be like, pretty

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rough. 
But that was the case on my 

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first two films where we had far
fewer days and and fewer 

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resources, even though I feel 
like on all of them, we've had 

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to like really stretch them. 
As far as we could. 

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I mean, even you said in the 
beginning, like how are we ever 

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going to do this in this amount 
of days? 

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Yeah, no I knew the need to 
schedule was tough and knew 

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there was a lot to do. 
I didn't anticipate that it was 

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going to be so I really didn't 
anticipate as myself physically 

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and emotionally took and I can I
don't think that I kind of 

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numbering this scriptures are 
like I'm just gonna kind of walk

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around they have a phone call 
because like I really didn't 

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didn't expect that. 
Then I think we're doing, we're 

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doing one. 
See where I was are you sure 

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gets coverage trimmed, right? 
Go into Kris and Rogers ruined 

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admitted to make a call at call 
the lawyer and I went in and now

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we realize that I didn't feel 
like I was injured. 

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Remember that? 
Yeah, a psycho fuck was that 

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one? 
The clipping started? 

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Yes. 
Yeah and it would just like, oh,

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it's white. 
Alright, older, in East of their

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actors limping and Survey. 
I didn't do it in a knot then 

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tick way and I said, fuck so 
supposed to have this wound like

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in my stomach right. 
Yeah. 

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It feels like more kind. 
Who is the prop guy? 

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It was like just handled 
everything. 

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The best proof guy who's so 
great. 

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Yeah, I was like, do you have 
like, literally there's the 

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there's the lose Clips got like 
bind. 

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Papers together. 
And I'd got that I clipped on my

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stomach and I need it for the 
rest of the shoot, and then it 

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was there. 
But you also, you have a hand 

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wound, and you also had like a, 
I think it was like a pin, like 

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you put a pin against your palm 
for the rest of the film, and 

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you wrapped it up. 
And I mean, it would, the hand 

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was wrapped in bandage. 
Yeah, yeah. 

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00:10:06,100 --> 00:10:09,500
For now, well, because just 
about, you don't use the hand, 

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right? 
Can like see their movies all 

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the time, where somebody 
Injured. 

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Men are like grabbing something 
and you got all, you couldn't 

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move your hand like that. 
There's just like a reminder. 

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Yeah. 
I was like there's some reasons 

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made this piece of session 
plastic with tax on it says, 

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press on the palm. 
I completely forgot about that. 

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Yeah, well then it's not ethic 
tation either. 

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Then you're not worrying about 
how do I make it look? 

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Like I was stabbed because you 
actually have like, you know, A 

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Shard of something. 
Yeah, I mean towards the end, I 

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time shooting the end again so 
accustomed to this. 

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This clip and it wasn't anything
anymore. 

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I just remember I was like more 
time. 

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This just like it's not working 
anymore. 

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00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:54,400
Like it's horrible and I was you
know, all covered and Barks and 

202
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black blue and he does I have 
something new and he gotten 

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velcro just like that the hard 
part of the velcro, not the soft

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part include that to both sides 
of the clip as a fan with put it

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on its head that and I was like 
a motherfucker as of course 

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Appreciative and I know I needed
it but by the end, as I do not 

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want to clip it back on and that
was I mean that would have been 

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two weeks into shooting. 
I think that's when you started 

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the star of doing that. 
And then we shot for 13 weeks 

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and total. 
So so for 11 weeks, you had that

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so stupid. 
Now, but it really worked, it 

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really worked. 
And there was a real, there's 

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00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,900
like a markets difference 
between What you were doing 

214
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before that? 
And after said, yeah, this is 

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already kind of blown up in my 
face for starting to talk about 

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this. 
But I don't think I was aware of

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how much you're putting your 
body through, like how exhausted

218
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you were, and how how rough the 
shoot was for you until what 

219
00:11:57,800 --> 00:12:03,900
happened near the end of the 
shoot with Patti, where we were 

220
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on, we're on her. 
I don't want to like, say what 

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what the scene is. 
Because it's it. 

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00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:12,400
It's a spoiler but those are 
intense scene for both of you 

223
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,700
but the coverage was on her. 
So it was it was a shot that was

224
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on her and you know, your hand 
is in frame and you were helping

225
00:12:20,300 --> 00:12:23,200
her through it by basically like
she you come talking her through

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00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,400
like holding her breath or the 
take but you were holding your 

227
00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:29,300
breath. 
Just I mean just just in 

228
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:30,400
solidarity. 
I don't know. 

229
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:36,600
Just to like help and anyway 
your hand fell out of frame and 

230
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:41,100
I heard like a thunk. 
And I wasn't able to put it 

231
00:12:41,100 --> 00:12:45,100
together, it was very confusing.
And then I came out because I 

232
00:12:45,108 --> 00:12:49,500
was around the corner and you 
had people all around you and I 

233
00:12:49,500 --> 00:12:52,400
did not understand what had 
happened until I realized that 

234
00:12:52,500 --> 00:12:56,000
people were, like, bending down 
to like touch you and help you. 

235
00:12:56,300 --> 00:12:59,500
And you are letting them touch. 
You like, that was the bad sign 

236
00:12:59,500 --> 00:13:02,200
was that you are you were 
allowing that kind of attention 

237
00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:07,300
because you, you would never 
allow that kind of like doting, 

238
00:13:07,500 --> 00:13:10,700
like you really Eating it. 
And you you looked worried like 

239
00:13:10,700 --> 00:13:14,100
you didn't know where you were 
like you'd be really fainted and

240
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:17,300
your first reaction was laughter
correctly. 

241
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:19,500
It was nervous. 
That's the nervous laughter. 

242
00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:21,600
I know I'm in love, I was in 
Terry. 

243
00:13:21,600 --> 00:13:27,500
No I got what what really made 
me uncomfortable is a who it was

244
00:13:27,500 --> 00:13:33,600
maybe around RAC chamber, who 
was it? 

245
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,800
The operator I just saw them 
walk by black. 

246
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,800
Mgs of the morphin camera and 
just sit down on the couch and 

247
00:13:42,800 --> 00:13:47,500
just stare at the floor. 
And like, I realized that it's 

248
00:13:48,000 --> 00:13:50,600
Hugh, there was, this looks 
reaction where he was just 

249
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:55,300
terrified, and he just like 
walked and sat down by that 

250
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:57,200
River. 
He's staring off. 

251
00:13:57,200 --> 00:13:58,900
Like they didn't understand what
happened. 

252
00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:01,700
And of course, it was fun and 
it's all sounds. 

253
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:04,100
So dramatic, man, wearing a big 
deal, we've been 

254
00:14:04,300 --> 00:14:08,300
hyperventilating all day, do all
this physical stuff like all day

255
00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,100
long. 
Just restricting airflow. 

256
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:16,700
Yeah, and yeah I mean the it's 
so funny but it felt traumatic 

257
00:14:16,700 --> 00:14:20,400
it felt it. 
It kind of I think we were both 

258
00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,000
sort of in this. 
I mean the sounds so like I 

259
00:14:23,008 --> 00:14:24,900
don't know, the sounds like 
bullshit but it kind of felt 

260
00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:27,200
like we were in some sort of a 
trance for a lot of that felt 

261
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,900
like just kind of very very 
focused we in the same way and I

262
00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:36,500
think we were both, you know, 
kind of just fixed on doing it 

263
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,800
the right way, whatever that 
meant and so on. 

264
00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,200
In realize how much you had put 
yourself through until then, I 

265
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:47,000
guess, effectively how much I 
had put you through and well, 

266
00:14:47,000 --> 00:14:53,000
that way I'd put you through it 
too and those those last, and 

267
00:14:53,000 --> 00:14:55,700
with, but three weeks of nights,
right? 

268
00:14:55,700 --> 00:14:57,700
Like, the last fool is were 
nights. 

269
00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:02,000
Every time we switched a world 
because the film is effectively,

270
00:15:02,100 --> 00:15:04,800
it's really six worlds, but I 
think five that you went 

271
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,000
through, because one of them is 
the cruise and then that's not 

272
00:15:07,000 --> 00:15:08,800
with you. 
But I feel like we spent about 

273
00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:13,100
Two weeks about about 10 days in
each environment. 

274
00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:16,700
And then it was usually like in 
the last, like, two, three days 

275
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:20,500
that we started to get like into
a Groove and kind of where it 

276
00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,900
became comfortable. 
And then it was usually that 

277
00:15:24,900 --> 00:15:28,800
like he's whatever like he's had
set in and confidence that 

278
00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,600
fucked us on the first day of 
every new environment, as like a

279
00:15:33,800 --> 00:15:37,000
guy with like without fail. 
The first day was a good 

280
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:40,400
disaster faster. 
The Stay with red with Roger and

281
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:41,500
Grace. 
Like I do. 

282
00:15:41,500 --> 00:15:44,200
I think they were like, really 
worried about what said that 

283
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:46,100
they had my carotid. 
They shouldn't you. 

284
00:15:46,100 --> 00:15:48,300
And I were both like totally 
lost. 

285
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,900
It looked like we didn't even 
know how to communicate because 

286
00:15:50,900 --> 00:15:53,700
we because I think we didn't I 
think we like we had a way of 

287
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:56,700
communicating and in one place 
and then suddenly we're in a new

288
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:59,800
place, there's a new tone. 
And I think I think for the two 

289
00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:04,300
of us the worst day with was 
Roger and Grace but for me like 

290
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:08,500
just individually, it was the 
first day in the forest that's 

291
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:11,400
where I I like that's where I 
hit this, like, really terrible 

292
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:15,500
wall and I couldn't like, thank 
I just felt like I was really 

293
00:16:15,500 --> 00:16:17,800
drowning, I don't know what 
happened because, you know, 

294
00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:20,300
there was a shot list. 
There's like a plan, we weren't 

295
00:16:20,300 --> 00:16:21,700
even. 
There was no need to like, 

296
00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:24,600
actually deviate from it or 
like, figure out anything new. 

297
00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,300
But I truly like, I just 
couldn't I just hit like a total

298
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,900
wall and I that felt like a 
10-hour panic attack that day. 

299
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,600
But that day, what would you 
first? 

300
00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:38,600
The first the first day was just
you walking with Hayley Squires 

301
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:40,100
and All right. 
And yeah. 

302
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:44,100
And then I know y'all. 
Did you just just first entering

303
00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:45,700
the right? 
The camp. 

304
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,300
And it was so simple. 
It was really simple and I like 

305
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:50,700
I couldn't do it and people 
would come up to me saying, are 

306
00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,900
you okay? 
And I just say I'm not okay, I, 

307
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,300
I can't breathe. 
I don't anyway that I still 

308
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:58,100
don't have like insight into 
what happened that night. 

309
00:16:58,100 --> 00:17:01,100
Except for the fact that it was 
just, it was just another pivot 

310
00:17:01,100 --> 00:17:04,400
that I wasn't like actually 
prepared for and then I mean, 

311
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:08,700
obviously the yeah, the whatever
that final scene is there was a 

312
00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,500
Big change their store. 
And then I forget the first day 

313
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:17,800
at at Mona's, but yeah argue too
but it's yeah, of course it all 

314
00:17:17,800 --> 00:17:19,900
becomes a blur as it as it 
should. 

315
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:24,700
I mean, you know, you are, 
you're just like swimming in it.

316
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,200
Yes. 
All-encompassing, right. 

317
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:32,100
I remember I was so appreciative
because you working so hard, but

318
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:35,200
I love to like work on weekends.
I love to rehearse. 

319
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:38,500
I don't like plan out and 
because we had these like two 

320
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:42,500
weeks We would get together on 
the weekends usually in the 

321
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,300
location and kind of like 
roughly go over it because we 

322
00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:49,700
had such limited time or just 
really wanted to like understand

323
00:17:49,700 --> 00:17:53,600
the space as much as possible. 
And still even with that things 

324
00:17:53,600 --> 00:17:57,000
change, you know when you're 
shooting as soon as here always 

325
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,400
available and willing and 
wanting to do that because like 

326
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:05,100
I need to get my head around it.
To I I needed that to that was 

327
00:18:05,100 --> 00:18:08,700
like sort of a revelation for 
for me too. 

328
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:11,700
Learn, that's how you worked 
because I was expecting before 

329
00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:15,500
we went into this for you to be 
less Technical. 

330
00:18:15,500 --> 00:18:18,300
And that, what do you do looks 
to me? 

331
00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:21,800
So often to be like, completely 
spontaneous and completely 

332
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:25,000
unworked out. 
And so, I Was preparing before 

333
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:27,900
we shot the film to like, be 
ready to just have everything 

334
00:18:27,900 --> 00:18:29,600
upended. 
And like, that was a really 

335
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:32,600
exciting thing to find that that
that that you were so 

336
00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:33,900
intentional. 
I don't know. 

337
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:38,200
I'm not not not to like break 
the magic of it, but for me to 

338
00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,200
find that You're able to do 
things. 

339
00:18:40,500 --> 00:18:45,400
Like so many times over was was 
really like kind of shocking to 

340
00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:51,600
me and I think there is a point 
at which it starts to dry up and

341
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:55,400
at that point there is I think a
need to okay we have to like 

342
00:18:55,600 --> 00:19:00,000
break this now and start over 
but that that was a really that 

343
00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:05,200
was kind of a is it was like a 
surprise to me but also I mean 

344
00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:08,300
I've I feel like I'm now 
repeating something that I've 

345
00:19:08,300 --> 00:19:10,700
already started. 
Saying a lot but it's true that 

346
00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:14,700
whatever that process was 
whatever we landed on for me, 

347
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,500
like just feels very much. 
Like, a way that I don't want to

348
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,200
stop working again really felt 
useful. 

349
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:24,600
I hold these. 
I don't just walk in with like, 

350
00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:28,100
and just everything is 
spontaneous, like, with no idea 

351
00:19:28,100 --> 00:19:31,800
what I like to have like 15 
possibilities. 

352
00:19:32,500 --> 00:19:37,200
I just don't choose which one in
advance of actually shooting and

353
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,800
I think is like it go. 
You at all old. 

354
00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,300
Maybe said we have to get in the
space and then maybe it was this

355
00:19:43,300 --> 00:19:46,300
feeling, I don't know, right 
now, sitting in my apartment, 

356
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:48,500
reading the script. 
I imagine this, this is the 

357
00:19:48,500 --> 00:19:52,100
feeling that I have, but that 
feeling inevitably will change. 

358
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,500
So I can't, I can't go inside as
well as me. 

359
00:19:54,500 --> 00:19:57,100
I don't even know what the, you 
know up there. 

360
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,200
The set looks like yet and that,
of course, changes everything. 

361
00:20:01,300 --> 00:20:04,400
So it's like, yeah. 
I guess it's just like, you have

362
00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:08,300
like your thoughts and, like, 
your hopes for something. 

363
00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:15,500
And then she just see what 
transpires and what feels good. 

364
00:20:15,500 --> 00:20:21,400
Like I make decisions I do this.
I still do this on every movie. 

365
00:20:21,400 --> 00:20:23,300
So embarrassing. 
I'm going to admit this to you. 

366
00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,500
There are times where I'm going 
through the script and I got 

367
00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:31,300
some II. 
I got it all fuck, I got it, and

368
00:20:31,300 --> 00:20:35,100
I'm like, I'm you my balls. 
I'm like, oh my God, I'm 

369
00:20:35,100 --> 00:20:38,400
actually, I'm actually dead. 
This is going to be here. 

370
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:45,500
Going without fail, those ideas 
are always the worst, terrible 

371
00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:52,000
feels like a movie and I just 
had like this brief moment of of

372
00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:54,600
confidence and feeling good 
about myself. 

373
00:20:54,600 --> 00:21:00,700
I think I belong here and then 
just immediately humbled and 

374
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:03,500
lost and during Ogawa, don't 
what am I? 

375
00:21:03,508 --> 00:21:07,400
Because I thought I had a good 
idea and it's the worst idea. 

376
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:10,700
Yeah. 
And Usually what I what I've 

377
00:21:10,700 --> 00:21:15,200
learned is out of that comes 
comes something out of that 

378
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:20,600
desperation out of that like 
brutal humiliation because 

379
00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:23,700
that's what it feels like. 
When you're the center of me, 

380
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:30,200
the focus of 50 people and your 
do something all. 

381
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:32,500
It's just so humiliating. 
No. 

382
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,700
I mean well the I do know that 
we that we kept every time we 

383
00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:41,900
kind of hit the Whatever like 
you know, the new all-time low 

384
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:47,000
was the feeling was always like,
yeah, we got cocky like oh shit,

385
00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,600
we really like, we thought we 
knew what we were doing here and

386
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:56,200
it just like died on the vine 
and then but I but with you too,

387
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:01,300
I remember that. 
I did a couple times that I 

388
00:22:01,300 --> 00:22:06,500
betrayed the fact that I had a 
plan like that, I that I kind of

389
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:11,500
was maybe Not subtle enough or 
that I really was just trying to

390
00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,200
impose something. 
And I kind of would give you 

391
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:19,900
something close to blocking and 
that's where it was just like, 

392
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:24,000
you got upset, you got really 
mad and and it but in a way that

393
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:28,100
was that that I'd end up finding
like very bracing and exciting 

394
00:22:28,100 --> 00:22:31,600
was like, okay yeah, we cannot 
go into this with like some set 

395
00:22:31,600 --> 00:22:35,000
plan because even I think you 
you got especially angry one day

396
00:22:35,300 --> 00:22:38,100
because the blocking was right, 
and you knew you would have 

397
00:22:38,100 --> 00:22:41,800
gotten there. 
But now it felt like something 

398
00:22:41,800 --> 00:22:45,100
that was a directive and you 
couldn't feel your way into it, 

399
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:49,000
and I totally under like 
understood that, it just 

400
00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,600
shouldn't be prescribed like 
that and that became something 

401
00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:58,800
very I think there were mornings
where like we would hit a wall 

402
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:03,500
and you would hit a wall. 
And in the beginning I at first 

403
00:23:03,700 --> 00:23:07,600
like that that was scary to me 
and I thought like oh fuck I've 

404
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:10,700
lost them like shit. 
It, he's not coming back like he

405
00:23:10,700 --> 00:23:12,900
hates me. 
You felt like that in the 

406
00:23:12,900 --> 00:23:13,900
beginning? 
I was shit. 

407
00:23:13,900 --> 00:23:18,100
He hates me and then not not 
long into the shoot. 

408
00:23:18,100 --> 00:23:20,600
I started to recognize a, oh, 
God, we're okay good. 

409
00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,300
Like there's a problem here. 
Whatever that is we have to 

410
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:27,000
break through something, 
otherwise, we will stay here, 

411
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,500
and it will stay dead. 
And every time there was 

412
00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:31,800
something of a breakthrough 
whether it works or not, I just 

413
00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:37,600
remember that it like came to 
like new life and felt at least,

414
00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:42,400
like Electric Yeah, not false. 
And for me, it broke away from 

415
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:45,300
what was in my head, which is 
really valuable. 

416
00:23:45,300 --> 00:23:49,700
Because, even now, when I see 
the film, I'm able to, to enjoy 

417
00:23:49,700 --> 00:23:52,800
a lot of it without feeling, 
like, picking it apart. 

418
00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:54,500
Like, oh, why did I do that? 
Why did I do that? 

419
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,700
Because it kind of left my hands
in a lot of ways, you know, it 

420
00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:01,800
really, it just turned into 
something, not something else, 

421
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:06,200
but it kind of like deep and 
done set, and that doesn't 

422
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:07,900
always happen. 
Yes. 

423
00:24:08,300 --> 00:24:12,800
Well, I mean, sometimes, you 
know, I know there were so many 

424
00:24:13,100 --> 00:24:15,800
this summer jobs were well known
when that happens when they hit 

425
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,800
the wall that I move. 
Every just talk to myself during

426
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:20,300
just just do it. 
Just do it. 

427
00:24:20,300 --> 00:24:23,800
Just it's so easy to walk in. 
Do they say the thing? 

428
00:24:23,800 --> 00:24:30,100
Hit the mark to it and I just I 
can't I you know, just can't do 

429
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:31,900
it. 
It's like no one. 

430
00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:34,700
It's just when it's there. 
It just makes me feel like it's 

431
00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:39,400
just not that's a by numbers. 
Yeah, just put that thing and I 

432
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,300
II just have a hard time and I 
think there are other actors 

433
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,000
like. 
Yeah, that's what this. 

434
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:48,500
But I can imbue it with with all
of this feeling and I'll make I 

435
00:24:48,508 --> 00:24:51,800
don't know what they do but I 
don't I don't know how to I 

436
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,500
don't know how to do that. 
Like unless it really feels like

437
00:24:55,500 --> 00:24:57,700
that it has energy in a 
discovery. 

438
00:24:58,100 --> 00:25:01,800
Something that's happening to 
me, not unlike some fucking 

439
00:25:01,800 --> 00:25:04,700
bullshit. 
And you know, it was not like 

440
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:07,900
some technique or and he I don't
know what it is, right? 

441
00:25:07,900 --> 00:25:11,900
Just You see there get like 
either you feel inspired and 

442
00:25:11,900 --> 00:25:15,200
excited and feel like it's 
dangerous or it feels just like 

443
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,400
fucking boring and you're just 
making a movie, you know, you're

444
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:21,300
like, well, I don't do that. 
I feel like people listening, 

445
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:23,900
like, could like, it could 
almost sound like difficult. 

446
00:25:23,900 --> 00:25:25,700
Like, what what, what? 
You're describing, like, you 

447
00:25:25,700 --> 00:25:29,600
being difficult, but it was 
always actually, the feeling was

448
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,000
you were like, kind of forcing a
new engagement. 

449
00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:36,900
I was challenged to like engage 
in a new way, with whatever the 

450
00:25:36,908 --> 00:25:42,600
material was and That's really 
like something that's hard to do

451
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:45,600
when you're like under the 
pressure of the clock you know 

452
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:49,200
to like stop and say wait a 
minute like let's stop working 

453
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,200
for a second which is actually 
where the, you know, real work 

454
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:53,800
begins. 
You know like let's let's 

455
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:58,600
actually reconsider This and 
like this thing. 

456
00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:01,300
We've known for a long time. 
Like this is what's going to 

457
00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:03,800
happen in this scene like this 
is what has to happen in the 

458
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:05,500
scene which means that it's kind
of died. 

459
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:07,200
You know? 
It's like it just it's just a 

460
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:09,200
fact right right. 
And so we're just Playing out a 

461
00:26:09,208 --> 00:26:11,100
fact. 
How do you kind of? 

462
00:26:11,100 --> 00:26:13,600
I mean, for me, the feeling was 
like, yeah, how do I get back to

463
00:26:13,608 --> 00:26:15,700
whatever that feeling was when I
first wrote it, right? 

464
00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:17,600
But so how do we like kind of 
rewrite this thing? 

465
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:20,400
Even though it's really about, 
honoring, whatever it is. 

466
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,500
But yes, but the only way to 
honor it is to try to in some 

467
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:29,100
way if you can, like reset the 
way you are looking at it 

468
00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,000
reinvigorate, whatever it is, 
you know? 

469
00:26:32,900 --> 00:26:34,900
Yeah. 
And I think that it's, it's not 

470
00:26:34,900 --> 00:26:38,000
just us. 
And I think for everybody on 

471
00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:42,600
set, You don't know precisely 
what's going to happen. 

472
00:26:42,900 --> 00:26:46,000
We know what's gonna happen but 
there's the potential that 

473
00:26:46,100 --> 00:26:50,200
somebody moves over here instead
or at the mic and there's like 

474
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,700
this Focus From the entire crew,
right? 

475
00:26:52,700 --> 00:26:55,800
And we all are kind of putting 
all of our effort into this 

476
00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,200
moment and that creates an 
energy that is really powerful 

477
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:04,600
and important like those in the 
things that I, that I think 

478
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:08,100
that's what I notice and in, 
like, it in this film and thing 

479
00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,900
in movies too. 
I like is just like an energy 

480
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:16,200
and a focus. 
So of what maybe when it's just,

481
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,000
when everyone knows precisely 
what we're doing and we're just 

482
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,900
hitting marks. 
That's the same thing as do. 

483
00:27:21,900 --> 00:27:25,600
Three takes you just human 
nature like eventually you start

484
00:27:25,600 --> 00:27:28,100
kind of people or just like 
looking at their phones or 

485
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:30,800
their, you know, and you see it 
be seeing you. 

486
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,300
You feel it when you're watching
a film that was made in that 

487
00:27:33,300 --> 00:27:35,100
Spirit. 
Like it's very, you know, it's 

488
00:27:35,100 --> 00:27:37,900
like it's like playing dress up.
It's a costume party. 

489
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:43,700
Yeah, well, I On this one, I 
felt for a couple weeks that you

490
00:27:43,700 --> 00:27:46,900
like, didn't know, if you could 
trust me, and I even remember on

491
00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:51,000
the first day, you did something
really surprising to me, it was 

492
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,000
like a scene where you're 
supposed to be like, you know, 

493
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,300
doing one thing and you just 
sort of did another thing. 

494
00:27:55,300 --> 00:27:57,000
It was when you're supposed to 
be packing and then you just 

495
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:01,900
sort of sat next to the suitcase
and I and it was just like, just

496
00:28:02,300 --> 00:28:06,200
really lonely and is that like 
felt like Bo, you know, and it's

497
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,100
like, oh my God, that's great. 
And so I I was very enthusiastic

498
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:12,600
about it. 
And then you said, would you 

499
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:18,000
come over here and you pulled me
to the side of the set and you 

500
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,000
leaned, any just got here. 
Just some fucking kid. 

501
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:24,600
That just like, so excited to 
have Joaquin Phoenix and your 

502
00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,500
said what? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

503
00:28:27,500 --> 00:28:29,600
Like, you know, like like a big 
act on your settings, like, I'm 

504
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:37,600
morally, I don't have time and I
said, yes, but I was very 

505
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:38,700
excited. 
Follow. 

506
00:28:38,900 --> 00:28:42,300
You just did because because you
were excited by this thing that 

507
00:28:42,300 --> 00:28:43,000
happened. 
Yeah. 

508
00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,500
And you asked like are always 
like anything I do are you just 

509
00:28:45,500 --> 00:28:47,400
gonna like anything? 
You do is just going to be so 

510
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:51,000
great because it's like because 
you can't believe that you got 

511
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,900
Commodus on your said you're 
like yeah I'm not so excited 

512
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:57,600
that Johnny Cash is like in 
here. 

513
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:02,700
Yes I was I was just yeah 
worried that that dumb. 

514
00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:08,700
Yeah like I want to be I want to
be challenged as night. 

515
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,000
I think like I was I was scared 
that he had that he just really 

516
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:16,500
like oh this is so exciting, I'm
making this and I'd miss this 

517
00:29:16,500 --> 00:29:18,500
meeting. 
I was like I'm not doing what if

518
00:29:18,500 --> 00:29:21,300
I don't I haven't and I just 
come from a place of such 

519
00:29:21,300 --> 00:29:23,700
insecurity writer. 
I'm just asking like what am I 

520
00:29:23,700 --> 00:29:25,000
doing? 
I don't know what I'm doing. 

521
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,300
I'm fucking terrible. 
And then you're like, I'm really

522
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:28,300
excited by this. 
I'll think. 

523
00:29:28,300 --> 00:29:30,200
Oh no. 
We're in fucking trouble ahead. 

524
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,000
Yeah, but I learned very, very 
quickly. 

525
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,800
How how perceptive you you were 
and how How dedicated and 

526
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:44,400
hardworking you are and that was
very exciting to me and it was 

527
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:48,600
really super early on which the 
Catholic immediately, it was 

528
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:52,000
intense, right? 
We had like, a couple days. 

529
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,500
Were kind of like walking down 
the hallway and stuff. 

530
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:57,400
Right. 
Wasn't like him and then it. 

531
00:29:57,700 --> 00:29:59,900
Yeah. 
Then they got like intense very 

532
00:29:59,900 --> 00:30:05,000
quickly but I you know, I love 
the way the team are, you talked

533
00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:08,700
about things and that first, the
first big team was called 

534
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:11,400
Caught, you know, on the phone, 
calling calling Mom. 

535
00:30:11,400 --> 00:30:15,100
I had. 
And that was, yeah, I was I just

536
00:30:15,100 --> 00:30:18,000
wasn't there yet, right? 
Just like really work with me to

537
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,600
get there in that scene. 
And I thought from from that 

538
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,700
moment on I like, I never have 
it, but I was like, I think I 

539
00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:29,100
know where there was a great 
thing. 

540
00:30:29,100 --> 00:30:32,300
We're at the present, the 
conversation you said, oh, and 

541
00:30:32,300 --> 00:30:36,400
then just say, we can fix this, 
we could fix this and her such a

542
00:30:36,408 --> 00:30:38,600
great line and it really just 
help me. 

543
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,800
I didn't know how the scene was 
supposed to end and that really 

544
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:45,100
helped me just saying that. 
Yeah, I remember that scene was 

545
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:47,400
half the day was the first half 
of the day with you. 

546
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:51,800
On the couch, the you would 
originally designed differently 

547
00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:54,600
the shot, right? 
You're standing and you were Kim

548
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:58,400
was going to like dollars Jenny,
Kim past me and like spin around

549
00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:00,600
or something that was when you 
were calling the landlord. 

550
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:02,300
And we did do that. 
It was still gonna be pretty 

551
00:31:02,300 --> 00:31:03,400
still. 
I think there might have been 

552
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:06,700
like a creep involved like on 
the like in the cameras on the 

553
00:31:06,700 --> 00:31:08,800
dolly it was creeping in or it 
might not have been in. 

554
00:31:08,900 --> 00:31:13,200
I have on honestly been just a 
very like a static close up with

555
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:18,100
you standing but then he really 
felt like you wanted to sit for 

556
00:31:18,100 --> 00:31:21,800
that. 
Yeah I was well I just assumed I

557
00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:23,600
was sitting like this isn't like
things. 

558
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:27,200
Like I don't, I never even that 
like looking back on it, I guess

559
00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,200
it didn't say that in the 
script. 

560
00:31:29,200 --> 00:31:33,300
And for some reason, I read the 
script, I just what I see 

561
00:31:33,300 --> 00:31:36,300
immediately that I just was 
like, I'm sitting on this couch 

562
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:40,300
and because I thought that he 
just Like, I still like his the 

563
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:44,800
just becomes deflated as he's in
this conversation. 

564
00:31:44,800 --> 00:31:47,000
Literally, give us later. 
I feel like it was tightening. 

565
00:31:47,000 --> 00:31:49,200
It was like getting Tighter and 
Tighter physically. 

566
00:31:49,700 --> 00:31:52,900
Yes, it just had, but by the end
you're just like out. 

567
00:31:52,900 --> 00:31:56,800
But yes, it is. 
It's like a pound shrinking 

568
00:31:56,800 --> 00:31:59,300
shrinking. 
Yeah, which I was like it is it 

569
00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,000
wouldn't even make sense. 
Then you have our area? 

570
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:03,200
I don't know. 
I don't know why. 

571
00:32:03,300 --> 00:32:07,300
And then I really I love that 
shot that you came up with 

572
00:32:07,600 --> 00:32:10,900
really push errands. 
Under mean, as I said remember I

573
00:32:10,900 --> 00:32:15,000
was like I think that I just 
keep kind of just a talking. 

574
00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:19,000
I'm just going leaning or we had
a meeting forward and your life 

575
00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:22,500
of just move push the camera. 
Come underneath you. 

576
00:32:23,100 --> 00:32:25,100
What? 
Yeah that that felt like very 

577
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:28,000
that was very quick when I saw 
you doing that with your body. 

578
00:32:28,100 --> 00:32:29,800
It felt like, yeah, we have to 
come. 

579
00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:32,500
We just stay with you. 
Somehow we have to kind of keep 

580
00:32:32,500 --> 00:32:35,700
kind of, you know, keep invading
your space until we're like in 

581
00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:39,900
your nose. 
I actually, when we Herded, the 

582
00:32:39,900 --> 00:32:43,300
film to IMAX like that was when 
I got excited about the format, 

583
00:32:43,300 --> 00:32:46,900
was in that shot because it's 
just like it's so I mean just 

584
00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,900
like Ian you and on that screen 
and feels like really perverse 

585
00:32:50,900 --> 00:32:54,400
to just be that close to this no
works out. 

586
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:57,500
Really well that that love 
seeing was that with them. 

587
00:32:57,900 --> 00:33:01,500
They like bad, shame job. 
Then I do and it's like those 

588
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:06,700
are sometimes like details that 
never really show up in a movie,

589
00:33:06,700 --> 00:33:08,200
you know, that are just kind of 
settled. 

590
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:11,600
But you just What do because, 
you know, it helps you write 

591
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,900
was, but then I actually like, 
when I'm in the therapists 

592
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,400
office and the beginning, there 
were just like these hairs on 

593
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:21,000
her own by neck, but just like 
our Miss Channing. 

594
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:27,000
And I on Ox, I really saw it and
I just love that detail so much.

595
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:31,300
I thought it said so much about 
him and and it really really 

596
00:33:31,300 --> 00:33:34,700
worked. 
We we captured it Colin, Colin 

597
00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:35,600
Penman. 
Right? 

598
00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:41,200
The makeup. 
A whose use amazing and there is

599
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,100
a lot there to track because 
there's so much damage that you 

600
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,600
go through over the course of 
the film like it in. 

601
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:50,300
Yeah. 
We had to make a lot of like 

602
00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,400
very strict decisions early on 
but after you get hit by the car

603
00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:56,800
what you know after you go 
through the glass after you. 

604
00:33:56,900 --> 00:33:59,000
Yeah. 
Like what are the areas, very 

605
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,300
good and collaborative. 
I mean, it's it's Joy when you 

606
00:34:03,300 --> 00:34:07,400
work with people that very good 
at what they do and are coming 

607
00:34:07,400 --> 00:34:11,699
up with things like Inventing 
things you saying, but we, but 

608
00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:16,199
can it be this? 
And like I remember he was 

609
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:18,400
using, I was like looking at the
cat. 

610
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:21,699
Sounds like, I think that it has
to it has to like, darken, and 

611
00:34:21,699 --> 00:34:25,800
scab as it goes on in that kind 
of like, scab what? 

612
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:27,699
Um, yeah. 
This if you like we're just 

613
00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:30,500
putting on these he scrapes and 
the same thing. 

614
00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:35,900
And he ended up put on putting 
coffee grounds, like sticking 

615
00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:38,600
them to the wound, and it looked
like it. 

616
00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:43,199
Like scabbing over and he kept 
coming up with this of like just

617
00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:46,699
old tricks that I can make up 
Artist as you know. 

618
00:34:46,900 --> 00:34:49,900
And so we really have the 
opportunity to like utilize. 

619
00:34:50,100 --> 00:34:54,500
Yeah, and I think he really 
enjoyed that, you know, really 

620
00:34:54,800 --> 00:35:00,000
being in on these discussions 
layers such a joy to to get a 

621
00:35:00,008 --> 00:35:04,300
group of people together and to 
create problems and then try to 

622
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:07,000
solve them. 
As that's like I thought the 

623
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,500
most most fun that And when it's
something this stupid, it's like

624
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:15,900
there's a real language. 
Nate just like shit is get as 

625
00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:19,600
much money as you can together 
and then just light it on fire, 

626
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,000
I'll be weird. 
Such an amazing crew and they 

627
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,500
were fucking awesome and it 
wasn't amazing, right? 

628
00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,300
That's just a church Montreal. 
Yeah, it looks great play 

629
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:31,700
everyone. 
Incredible know, me too. 

630
00:35:32,100 --> 00:35:34,700
Yeah, we're really, really 
lucky. 

631
00:35:34,700 --> 00:35:37,200
There was some nice, the art 
team was incredible. 

632
00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:40,400
The camera, the camera crew. 
Really, like, I really had a 

633
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:45,600
hard time leaving the end. 
I really felt like that was, you

634
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,500
know, the platitude of felt, you
know, 50, like a family but it 

635
00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:51,600
really did by the end. 
Yeah, I'm nervous. 

636
00:35:52,100 --> 00:35:56,400
I'm his fucking weird shit that 
we were doing well, in the 

637
00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,800
Attic. 
That's some weird shit. 

638
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:02,200
Oh, yeah, doing it's so wild and
of the puppets. 

639
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:05,300
Not really in the movie anymore,
we moved mostly to CG. 

640
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:08,700
But yeah, with that giant puppet
account for two. 

641
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,800
Days of Jeeves. 
Yeah shooting and stabbing this 

642
00:36:11,800 --> 00:36:18,300
giant I can just you know 
Madness just a show just fucking

643
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:23,200
Madness and it's so difficult, 
come in 7:00 in the morning, you

644
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:24,600
go. 
So what is the day? 

645
00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:29,500
What are we doing today? 
And how do we put ourselves in 

646
00:36:29,500 --> 00:36:33,100
that place because we can't just
like walk in and just shoot? 

647
00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:35,600
Like it's just a scene 
especially this because it is so

648
00:36:35,600 --> 00:36:39,600
stupid that like you know, the 
magic trick, if you Actually 

649
00:36:40,100 --> 00:36:44,400
achieve it is, is to somehow 
like in Gross, somebody in this 

650
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:47,000
thing. 
That's, that's so, so exactly 

651
00:36:47,000 --> 00:36:49,400
dumb. 
No, I mean, that's that bears 

652
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:52,900
thing is like, if you allow 
yourself the step back for a 

653
00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:55,100
moment, you go. 
This is fucking ridiculous. 

654
00:36:55,100 --> 00:36:58,600
I'm going home. 
I can't do this and you have to 

655
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:03,000
do the opposite. 
If D completely commit to this, 

656
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:06,700
and I was young like this is not
going to work. 

657
00:37:06,700 --> 00:37:09,500
I'm going to laugh. 
I can't, I visit No way that I 

658
00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:11,200
can with Nathan, he laughed a 
lot. 

659
00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:15,300
Oh, fuck. 
You know, that a certain. 

660
00:37:15,300 --> 00:37:18,400
There's no way you can get 
through a take and he's like, 

661
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,700
one of those guys, but, you 
know, he takes pride and 

662
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:26,800
kidding, you couldn't hear the 
laugh, but he was so good. 

663
00:37:27,100 --> 00:37:31,000
Yeah, absolutely. 
And a need an English is a great

664
00:37:31,500 --> 00:37:35,300
face is stupid because I 
remember, we were me name. 

665
00:37:35,300 --> 00:37:40,000
It was sitting outside and 
between takes Of the paint 

666
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:41,800
scene. 
You know, I don't even know how 

667
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,400
to describe what it's like 
because they're sitting outside.

668
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,700
There's not many places to go, 
right. 

669
00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:51,100
There was just this like one 
area where we could sit and so 

670
00:37:51,100 --> 00:37:55,400
we're together and in some ways 
you're doing this scene with 

671
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:57,800
somebody, and you don't want to 
look at them. 

672
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,900
Like you don't want to be around
them in between takes almost 

673
00:38:01,900 --> 00:38:06,300
because it's just like just 
feels ridiculous and you just 

674
00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:10,400
don't want to like get into 
small talk and But we just work 

675
00:38:10,400 --> 00:38:12,600
together. 
We in our choice and there's 

676
00:38:12,600 --> 00:38:15,400
like we're sitting in silence. 
I could look the other and she 

677
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:21,700
was just like red in the face 
and I was like, what we do is so

678
00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:27,000
and she said, stupid, it's just 
so stupid. 

679
00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:31,200
There are like you're fucking 
right. 

680
00:38:31,700 --> 00:38:35,600
The only way to describe it, as 
really ridiculous. 

681
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,000
I supposed to ask you about like
you Zurich and shit, tell me 

682
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:41,900
about sound design. 
Come on to town, doesn't. 

683
00:38:41,900 --> 00:38:44,000
Yeah, tell me how what that 
process was like. 

684
00:38:44,700 --> 00:38:46,900
I don't know. 
I mean, Paul shooed the sound 

685
00:38:46,900 --> 00:38:50,600
design and he's great. 
He's really, he's so smart and 

686
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:58,400
so like her to sleep. 
Hey, I mean, is this just 

687
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,600
linking those boys in the world?
Yeah, probably. 

688
00:39:00,600 --> 00:39:01,200
Okay. 
Goodbye. 

689
00:39:01,200 --> 00:39:03,800
Love you, man. 
Well, since you've talked about 

690
00:39:04,500 --> 00:39:07,900
my little spell, I think it's 
only fair. 

691
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:15,500
To reveal one of your most 
troubled moments was sad. 

692
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:18,500
Oh, I know you're going to, I 
know it water. 

693
00:39:18,700 --> 00:39:20,800
It's the bedroom. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

694
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:22,800
We'll go ahead. 
I'm not Mom. 

695
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:24,100
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

696
00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:29,600
Well no, that was it, there's it
extremely difficult. 

697
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:34,100
I mean, we know is very really 
rough rough week and I cheat 

698
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:37,600
I've really struggled with that 
one there and beginning. 

699
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:41,100
And we were talking about bad 
first day as that. 

700
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:43,300
That was the first day now I'm 
remembering. 

701
00:39:43,300 --> 00:39:44,600
Yeah, so it. 
No, it was another. 

702
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:46,100
Yeah, it's another terrible 
Tuesday. 

703
00:39:46,300 --> 00:39:51,200
Yeah, and, um, I remember, I 
could not just one of those 

704
00:39:51,200 --> 00:39:54,600
things where you go. 
I know that I'm supposed to do 

705
00:39:54,900 --> 00:39:57,400
this. 
I'm literally incapable of it. 

706
00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:02,000
Like I'm literally incapable of,
I don't know what, I don't know 

707
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:03,700
what to do. 
Yeah. 

708
00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:07,200
And of course Looking back on 
it. 

709
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:11,100
It makes total sense that you 
wouldn't know what to do in that

710
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:12,900
situation, right? 
Yeah. 

711
00:40:12,900 --> 00:40:16,600
Like how do you, how do you have
a plan? 

712
00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:21,100
How do you function in that 
situation as the person they 

713
00:40:21,100 --> 00:40:24,000
took the real person? 
The character, and I remember 

714
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,900
though that it was, it was a 
real struggle and you, you just 

715
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:34,200
broke, you totally broke it. 
You just went to the fucking 

716
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,500
Edge and you just Apparently 
Jack and everybody left. 

717
00:40:39,500 --> 00:40:46,100
The room is super uncomfortable 
and your emotional and I felt 

718
00:40:46,200 --> 00:40:53,300
terrible that I might be somehow
responsible for it, but I 

719
00:40:53,308 --> 00:40:59,200
remember you saying I can't re 
conceive of this right now 

720
00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:03,300
because I'm not good enough. 
I'm not good enough to just come

721
00:41:03,300 --> 00:41:07,100
up with my mouth. 
I laugh like If your fucking 

722
00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:10,600
mind, I couldn't believe that. 
That's how you felt because I 

723
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:16,600
had so much faith in you to be 
able to help us get out of 

724
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:19,400
whatever the problem was. 
And it caught up with something 

725
00:41:19,500 --> 00:41:24,100
and I couldn't I just I could I 
was so I was so surprised that 

726
00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:27,600
that was your feeling like I 
didn't anticipate that. 

727
00:41:27,800 --> 00:41:32,600
I'm sorry. 
First align, those are about it.

728
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,500
I don't remember saying that but
I'm sure I mean I Yeah we got it

729
00:41:36,500 --> 00:41:42,700
was like around take 20 actually
I mean in in retrospect like we 

730
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:46,800
we actually were we were further
along than it felt but that was 

731
00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:52,100
just a day where I felt like the
pressure of the whole production

732
00:41:52,100 --> 00:41:55,000
was like, you know, just too 
much on that day. 

733
00:41:55,200 --> 00:41:57,700
It was really. 
I mean, we were deep into it, 

734
00:41:57,700 --> 00:42:01,500
that was like, 50 days into 
shooting or something or 55 days

735
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:05,000
into shooting. 
That was just, I mean, I had one

736
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,100
of those days. 
On Midsummer where I just got 

737
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:12,600
there the morning and people 
were like looking at mates and 

738
00:42:12,600 --> 00:42:15,800
they walk and it was like time 
for me to, you know, like give 

739
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,100
directives and explain what we 
were about to shoot. 

740
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,000
And I had my plan, you know, I 
knew exactly what we were going 

741
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:23,400
to do is is actually pretty 
simple. 

742
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,500
It's basically like it was kind 
of a dance scene, so it was all 

743
00:42:26,500 --> 00:42:28,500
choreographed. 
Like I did, there is nothing. 

744
00:42:28,500 --> 00:42:32,500
I had to like conceive of at the
moment, but I was just facing 

745
00:42:32,500 --> 00:42:35,300
the whole crew and they're all 
looking to me. 

746
00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:41,000
Expectedly and I just had I just
turned around and then like 

747
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:43,700
started crying and so like 
they're watching this like this 

748
00:42:43,700 --> 00:42:47,900
guy's back like just kind of 
like rise and fall and it did he

749
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:50,300
went like 30 minutes. 
I just think I couldn't get out 

750
00:42:50,300 --> 00:42:53,100
of it but it's really, you know,
it's it's not even emotional. 

751
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:55,300
It's like just it's like a 
nervous Yang. 

752
00:42:55,300 --> 00:42:59,100
It's like your nervous system is
just like yeah, it just it take 

753
00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:01,900
that you tap out and that that's
what happened, that day with 

754
00:43:01,900 --> 00:43:04,900
with you. 
Is that I just hit that same. 

755
00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:08,400
Wall whereas just like the even 
if things were like going 

756
00:43:08,400 --> 00:43:10,800
smoothly and we were it would 
have been working. 

757
00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:14,500
I still feel like you know, 
anything could have set me off 

758
00:43:14,500 --> 00:43:16,800
that day. 
I remember driving in and just 

759
00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:20,300
feeling like I can't I can't I 
need like a day. 

760
00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:26,000
I need some sleep or something 
but but still even like but in 

761
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,000
retrospect I think of that wall 
that we kind of both hit because

762
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:33,700
you hit the same wall like 
several takes earlier and so I 

763
00:43:33,700 --> 00:43:36,900
was really just trying to 
support you And help you. 

764
00:43:36,900 --> 00:43:40,100
And it just turned out that I, I
couldn't support anybody that 

765
00:43:40,100 --> 00:43:41,800
day, but then after that, I 
don't know. 

766
00:43:41,800 --> 00:43:44,400
Like, then it turned into one of
our best days. 

767
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:47,100
It brought us back together. 
I think we were kind of, like, 

768
00:43:47,200 --> 00:43:49,800
another sides of the room for 
the, you know, for that that 

769
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,400
first half of the day and then, 
yes, I did. 

770
00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:54,200
I cried that. 
That's what you haven't said, 

771
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,600
isn't, I was crying. 
Yeah, I always find those 

772
00:43:57,900 --> 00:44:02,100
moments since sound so callous, 
but like really invigorating. 

773
00:44:02,300 --> 00:44:06,500
It's because I know that there's
So much. 

774
00:44:08,700 --> 00:44:13,000
Shilling in the room and it's 
awful at scary like that. 

775
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,400
It's really one of those 
uncomfortable things when in ad 

776
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,400
is like I'm clear the room 
please. 

777
00:44:17,600 --> 00:44:20,500
I like people just start 
shuffling out and get a light 

778
00:44:20,500 --> 00:44:24,700
lunch early and we're sitting in
that room in the feeling is 

779
00:44:25,200 --> 00:44:27,900
we're never going to find our 
way out of this. 

780
00:44:28,000 --> 00:44:29,500
But that's the best different 
way. 

781
00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:33,800
Yeah, that you have right? 
Like we actually were in such a 

782
00:44:33,800 --> 00:44:37,900
bind and everything on. 
People are looking at you did, 

783
00:44:38,100 --> 00:44:39,600
right? 
It's detected your that there is

784
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,200
like a spotlight on you and 
there's a spotlight always on 

785
00:44:42,200 --> 00:44:44,100
you. 
But there's but yeah. 

786
00:44:44,100 --> 00:44:46,000
And I make it with like a thing 
Raptor. 

787
00:44:46,000 --> 00:44:47,600
I'm here. 
It's like it's all like yeah. 

788
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,100
You've seriously. 
Yeah. 

789
00:44:49,500 --> 00:44:53,700
Exhaust isn't just so absurd. 
Yeah. 

790
00:44:54,300 --> 00:44:58,200
And you can't you can't just 
laugh about it and those moments

791
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:01,500
or maybe sometimes you know, you
can that's another way out. 

792
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:05,100
But this was like we don't have 
the time. 

793
00:45:05,100 --> 00:45:06,700
We don't have the luxury of 
time. 

794
00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,800
We have to fucking figure. 
This out and now and the deeper 

795
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:13,000
you dig like when you're on take
20 and you and it's not. 

796
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:16,500
I mean, and and the schedule is 
kind of fucked because that you 

797
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:18,600
were supposed to do, like, seven
scenes that day. 

798
00:45:19,300 --> 00:45:21,700
That was the day. 
We had scheduled seven scenes. 

799
00:45:21,700 --> 00:45:24,300
I remember that because it was. 
So it was a pretty simple, 

800
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:26,600
wasn't that? 
And it was more simple than 

801
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,100
other scenes. 
That's actually what broke me 

802
00:45:29,100 --> 00:45:33,200
down is that we were reached 
lunch and we we ask for grace 

803
00:45:33,600 --> 00:45:37,900
and so just the realization that
we needed to that the schedule 

804
00:45:38,400 --> 00:45:41,900
That we not only be like like 
that should have been done like 

805
00:45:41,900 --> 00:45:46,400
four hours ago, but we should be
done with two other scenes, and 

806
00:45:47,100 --> 00:45:49,700
we're in Grace, but we're not 
going to get this before. 

807
00:45:49,700 --> 00:45:52,200
We have to actually, finally 
break for lunch and then we're 

808
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,700
going to come back to the same. 
And that just that was what I 

809
00:45:54,707 --> 00:45:57,600
couldn't get my head around, but
it's always the clock, it's 

810
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,400
always, you know, it's not, 
that's what the pressure is. 

811
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:04,800
It's not like, you know, 
otherwise it's it would be fun 

812
00:46:04,900 --> 00:46:08,200
if it weren't for the pressure 
of the money and the time. 

813
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:11,900
I'm yeah, but that pressure is 
also really good. 

814
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:18,100
Ya know like, you know, as 
there's something I love about 

815
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:23,600
it. 
I love those moments where just 

816
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:29,800
feels like this could just end 
very bad or we can fucking 

817
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:32,800
figure something out and we 
gotta do it quick. 

818
00:46:33,300 --> 00:46:36,400
I mean, it's it's so exciting. 
Yeah. 

819
00:46:36,400 --> 00:46:37,800
Yeah. 
It's odd. 

820
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:41,600
Awful when you're in it. 
It's a terrible feeling. 

821
00:46:42,300 --> 00:46:47,600
But sometimes it seems that 
seems simple at the one that 

822
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:51,500
actually you, because she, it 
just for you can't force it. 

823
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:54,400
And there's something else 
telling you that. 

824
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:59,500
It's like a different feeling 
like you, you're chasing, you're

825
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:03,600
chasing a feeling and that makes
sense but it's just not there, 

826
00:47:03,600 --> 00:47:09,600
it's not really working, it 
feels forced said or just feels 

827
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:11,800
Road, you know, like me because 
you thought it was a simple 

828
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:14,100
scene. 
You just didn't really think 

829
00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:17,000
about it or you just kind of you
know, but we did. 

830
00:47:17,000 --> 00:47:21,200
And we went in that day though 
but we started out to start out 

831
00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:26,600
strong because we kind of made 
them some Changes to what 

832
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:31,700
happens after the intimate 
moment in the bed. 

833
00:47:31,700 --> 00:47:34,100
Read. 
Write, and I was originally 

834
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:37,700
going to be one thing over on 
this side and then we're like 

835
00:47:37,700 --> 00:47:40,300
are no way to maybe it should be
the opposite of that. 

836
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:42,700
Right. 
So we yeah, we didn't just go in

837
00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:44,300
and just job over the weekend. 
Yeah. 

838
00:47:44,300 --> 00:47:47,900
It's don't call where. 
Yeah, we both we both kind of re

839
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,600
re thought how that would play 
because we realized it was too 

840
00:47:53,300 --> 00:47:55,200
similar to similar to something 
that had happened. 

841
00:47:55,400 --> 00:47:58,200
Right before. 
Was that right? 

842
00:47:58,200 --> 00:48:00,600
Yeah, I've met. 
And so then there was like some 

843
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:03,900
relief and like okay well 
actually we're not doing we're 

844
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:06,500
not repeating ourselves, she had
this again that's good. 

845
00:48:06,600 --> 00:48:09,400
And then we got the jury was 
like that. 

846
00:48:11,100 --> 00:48:15,500
I don't know why really one of 
the strangest that's difficult 

847
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:20,800
scenes for me. 
Yeah, it was very is it was 

848
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,800
really important. 
I think we'd worked out the one 

849
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,300
thing but then your Suddenly 
faced with right. 

850
00:48:27,700 --> 00:48:29,700
It's the biggest pivot in the 
film. 

851
00:48:29,700 --> 00:48:35,000
And I think somehow that was so 
obvious that we that cookie, I 

852
00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,000
kind of just assumed it was 
pretty simple. 

853
00:48:37,000 --> 00:48:40,300
And I mean, you know, there was 
a lot more dialogue of their we 

854
00:48:40,300 --> 00:48:43,000
like cut. 
We kind of chopped it all out 

855
00:48:43,000 --> 00:48:45,200
immediately because I mean, he's
just like what are we talking 

856
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:47,100
about? 
Like, when I, what is it like 

857
00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:51,500
this? 
What words are gonna exactly 

858
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:55,200
like charged reflect was 
actually happening here? 

859
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,700
It was very is actually like, 
and the words were, like in 

860
00:48:59,700 --> 00:49:04,000
retrospect, like, they're like, 
like way too coy and like, yeah,

861
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,300
it's just a bit that's what's 
funny is that we figured that 

862
00:49:06,300 --> 00:49:07,900
out early on to like, I don't 
know what. 

863
00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:12,800
Anyway, it was that was a really
tricky day but those days are 

864
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:17,100
really good because they kind of
reactivate this like, well it's 

865
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:19,300
really what it is is a fear of 
that happening again. 

866
00:49:19,300 --> 00:49:21,600
Like, you just don't want to 
call, you just don't want to 

867
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,900
like get, you don't want to end 
up back in quicksand because it 

868
00:49:24,900 --> 00:49:27,700
really Is the worst feeling? 
What else was there? 

869
00:49:27,700 --> 00:49:29,600
Do you want to talk about other 
people? 

870
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,500
Do you want to talk about? 
Who's the, who's the cop? 

871
00:49:33,600 --> 00:49:35,100
Well, where'd you find that 
actor? 

872
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,100
Michael S /. 
He's a, he's a, he's like, a New

873
00:49:38,100 --> 00:49:40,300
York theater actor. 
He's great in case bucking 

874
00:49:40,300 --> 00:49:41,900
amazing. 
Yeah, he's good. 

875
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,500
He's really good. 
I mean, I like, yeah, I always 

876
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:50,900
feel like people with like small
parts at a couple lines and like

877
00:49:50,900 --> 00:49:53,500
extras. 
That's when you know like if a 

878
00:49:53,508 --> 00:49:58,700
director is any good. 
And I'm like, always dread those

879
00:49:58,700 --> 00:50:02,200
moments and I remember the first
take going, holy shit. 

880
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:04,900
This guy is like way more in it 
than I am. 

881
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:08,800
It's like oh fuck. 
It was me really like yeah, 

882
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:12,100
inspired me. 
And remember we went and 

883
00:50:12,100 --> 00:50:15,100
preached to say the same shoe or
till you tell me what to talk 

884
00:50:15,100 --> 00:50:16,300
about. 
No, but that was great. 

885
00:50:16,300 --> 00:50:17,900
It's nice. 
And I'm glad my Glasper has 

886
00:50:17,900 --> 00:50:19,400
that. 
That's because he would be as he

887
00:50:19,400 --> 00:50:20,900
was great. 
He's fucking mm. 

888
00:50:20,900 --> 00:50:22,300
Yeah. 
He's fantastic. 

889
00:50:23,000 --> 00:50:25,700
Yeah, because yeah, now he won. 
Awful. 

890
00:50:26,100 --> 00:50:27,500
Well I remember when he first 
saw it. 

891
00:50:27,800 --> 00:50:31,800
You mentioned Zoe lister-jones 
and Julianne Cinelli. 

892
00:50:32,500 --> 00:50:35,900
I was Zoe lister-jones plays 
Jung Mo. 

893
00:50:35,900 --> 00:50:38,900
Now I think you were especially 
surprised by them because you 

894
00:50:38,900 --> 00:50:40,900
weren't on set with them so I 
think that's what I think. 

895
00:50:40,900 --> 00:50:43,600
That's what it was was there I 
hadn't seen them and then Julia 

896
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:47,200
plays young Elaine and yeah I 
mean the boss. 

897
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,800
Oh great. 
I thought they knew did some 

898
00:50:49,800 --> 00:50:53,900
trick where you like used Patti 
lupone's voice that you blended 

899
00:50:53,900 --> 00:51:00,000
it with Joey's Voice or Thing. 
I don't know why if they just I 

900
00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:02,800
thought she was incredible. 
I'm really not. 

901
00:51:02,800 --> 00:51:08,100
It's an amazing performance. 
Everybody in, you know, our man 

902
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:09,200
in. 
Yeah. 

903
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,100
Armand is so great. 
I mean, I don't know how he 

904
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:16,000
found Armand, but it looks so 
much like you and Parenthood 

905
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,900
while we're on people. 
Patti. 

906
00:51:19,900 --> 00:51:23,100
LuPone is like so much fun. 
She like knew that script like 

907
00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:25,100
to, well, like she knew, it's so
well. 

908
00:51:25,300 --> 00:51:28,100
There's never a moment where she
bumped on us on anything. 

909
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,100
She was just so. 
So game. 

910
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:34,000
There was a real I can't I can't
imagine two actors that are like

911
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,500
more different that like that 
approach the work more 

912
00:51:37,500 --> 00:51:41,200
differently than you and her but
I do feel that there was like an

913
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,500
Alchemy, they're just in one 
philosophy or one like really 

914
00:51:45,500 --> 00:51:48,700
just like want to just like one 
approach to the work versus the 

915
00:51:48,700 --> 00:51:51,500
other, but they were both like 
totally committed in their own 

916
00:51:51,500 --> 00:51:53,000
way. 
And it's like weird. 

917
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:58,400
Anyway, I really love that. 
And then Parker that might be my

918
00:51:58,600 --> 00:52:00,100
favorite scene in the film 
isn't. 

919
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:04,400
As you guys on the porch, that's
really like, really Ghostly. 

920
00:52:04,400 --> 00:52:08,600
And yeah, and you're so 
vulnerable on that saying, like 

921
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:12,200
it's such a Soulful thing that 
you're doing there and she's 

922
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:16,000
like, just I don't know. 
They I'm really like I love that

923
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:18,300
scene. 
I'm really and I feel like that 

924
00:52:18,300 --> 00:52:22,700
definitely got away from me with
the two of you like that's just 

925
00:52:22,700 --> 00:52:25,900
such a beautiful. 
If the area is wings, Credible. 

926
00:52:26,100 --> 00:52:28,300
Yeah, she is incredible, 
incredible odds. 

927
00:52:28,800 --> 00:52:32,700
Yeah, I mean, and and all then 
just so ballsy. 

928
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:36,400
What I mean, once you got into 
the bedroom, I am so grateful to

929
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:41,800
her for ya off and doing that. 
Oh, man, at this point, are we? 

930
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:43,900
Oh God, Stephen McKinley 
Henderson. 

931
00:52:44,300 --> 00:52:48,600
He came in really understanding 
the part because it's a weird 

932
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:51,100
one, it's really weird. 
And there's like a pivot at the 

933
00:52:51,100 --> 00:52:54,300
end. 
That is, that makes me laugh a 

934
00:52:54,308 --> 00:52:58,400
lot and It was so clear that he 
understood that he's funny, he's

935
00:52:58,400 --> 00:53:01,600
really funny. 
And I don't know. 

936
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,900
He, he's really special. 
I really want to work with him 

937
00:53:04,900 --> 00:53:07,800
again. 
He had two things, we can't talk

938
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:12,000
about and I like things that we 
just can't that just are 

939
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,200
spoilers but got anything at, 
what else? 

940
00:53:15,300 --> 00:53:18,300
Anything else do we, I mean, 
there's so many things that's 

941
00:53:18,300 --> 00:53:20,100
for, it's why it's always 
difficult. 

942
00:53:20,100 --> 00:53:22,100
Do I know for us? 
There's the bathtub, the bats 

943
00:53:22,100 --> 00:53:27,200
have thing only because it felt 
like that felt V momentous as 

944
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:30,000
far as our Dynamic was 
concerned. 

945
00:53:30,600 --> 00:53:33,000
If that's is that? 
No, I mean, let's go. 

946
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,700
No, I was thrilled because I 
knew that I'd get there was 

947
00:53:38,700 --> 00:53:41,900
nothing, there was nothing 
special or unique about the 

948
00:53:41,900 --> 00:53:46,200
first, the first time shooting 
it, and it was like, fine and in

949
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:50,100
every in most movies you'd like,
it's fine, but it just felt like

950
00:53:50,100 --> 00:53:54,100
it just been wasn't something. 
I are talking to his hand. 

951
00:53:54,100 --> 00:53:56,600
I don't think. 
It's special. 

952
00:53:56,900 --> 00:54:01,500
Yeah, and we were as per usual 
pressed for time and and they 

953
00:54:01,500 --> 00:54:03,300
felt like all this is such an 
important moment. 

954
00:54:03,300 --> 00:54:05,400
We have two at the scene where 
you broke down crying. 

955
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:07,900
Basically, it's a scene where 
you can, you write can see you 

956
00:54:07,900 --> 00:54:09,600
say fine. 
But yeah, you know, any other 

957
00:54:09,600 --> 00:54:10,500
film? 
It's in this film. 

958
00:54:10,500 --> 00:54:14,200
It's a whenever a fucking, like,
quote, unquote Powerhouse 

959
00:54:14,500 --> 00:54:18,900
moment, but it, but it felt it 
did feel like wrote it felt like

960
00:54:18,900 --> 00:54:21,900
really obvious. 
And we are also going to I think

961
00:54:21,900 --> 00:54:25,200
we also recognize that we're 
going to go back there later. 

962
00:54:25,400 --> 00:54:27,000
Right. 
And if we did it here that we 

963
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,500
have to do something else there 
but that may be the more 

964
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:32,400
appropriate in there her. 
Exactly. 

965
00:54:32,500 --> 00:54:35,400
Yeah, and that was her from but 
there were you know, for me I'll

966
00:54:35,400 --> 00:54:39,200
start there was it you know 
there is a technical aspect of 

967
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:44,700
it where the camera was and how 
it moves throughout the scene. 

968
00:54:45,400 --> 00:54:49,400
And so like it's a moment that 
you want to just be as an actor,

969
00:54:49,400 --> 00:54:51,300
just just for you to reveal 
itself. 

970
00:54:51,300 --> 00:54:56,400
However it does when it does but
couldn't quite Couldn't I do 

971
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,700
that? 
And you will live a lie. 

972
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,200
Am I remembering that, right? 
What's that? 

973
00:55:01,200 --> 00:55:05,600
The camera starts on me, right? 
Well, in this, he certainly on 

974
00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,400
your phone and I seriously bring
into your ear and then we kind 

975
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,000
of think the camera kind of 
rotates around. 

976
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,200
So it starts on the phone, you 
bring it up to your ear. 

977
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,500
So then we pan to become like a 
profile of your face with the 

978
00:55:18,500 --> 00:55:21,800
phone up to your ear and and 
then once we land on that we're 

979
00:55:21,800 --> 00:55:26,500
drifting to the right to then be
in like a A medium close up on 

980
00:55:26,500 --> 00:55:30,100
you. 
Yeah, but all, but then, it then

981
00:55:30,100 --> 00:55:31,700
goes up. 
Yes. 

982
00:55:31,700 --> 00:55:33,900
You have to send it up the right
Jeff. 

983
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:37,300
And it was all and I didn't 
anticipate that, that was going 

984
00:55:37,300 --> 00:55:38,900
to be one shot. 
Right? 

985
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:39,900
Right. 
Yeah. 

986
00:55:39,900 --> 00:55:42,400
So, we went back to reshoot it 
nessie's. 

987
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:44,400
You came in my chair. 
You told me in the early in the 

988
00:55:44,400 --> 00:55:47,700
morning, it's like got me 
spinning and panic. 

989
00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:49,600
Yeah, I thought you were really 
upset with me. 

990
00:55:49,800 --> 00:55:52,800
Yeah, sure. 
Have it now that it's like, off,

991
00:55:52,800 --> 00:55:54,000
we have to use. 
I have to do, right? 

992
00:55:54,100 --> 00:55:59,700
I remember this is Really, I was
I was wondering whether a little

993
00:55:59,700 --> 00:56:04,300
reluctant to to say this but 
because it sounds so fucking 

994
00:56:04,300 --> 00:56:07,000
stupid and just like actor, 
shit. 

995
00:56:07,000 --> 00:56:12,200
But I remember seeing to happen 
and I was thinking in what I did

996
00:56:12,200 --> 00:56:18,300
before was I did a scene but it 
wasn't really I wasn't really 

997
00:56:19,500 --> 00:56:22,400
Volatile of didn't really put 
myself out. 

998
00:56:22,400 --> 00:56:25,800
There was still nervous, it was 
still in some way. 

999
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:28,500
I was controlling a little bit 
of controlling what people 

1000
00:56:28,500 --> 00:56:30,800
thought about me. 
I was I didn't want to let 

1001
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:35,300
people down and it was like new 
crew were early at that and I 

1002
00:56:35,308 --> 00:56:40,900
remember I'm just realizing like
I had to do something that was 

1003
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,100
fucking stupid and I would just 
show didn't want to do it. 

1004
00:56:45,100 --> 00:56:49,700
I just did I just knew and I 
just started screaming Screaming

1005
00:56:49,800 --> 00:56:55,600
like the most intense dental 
pain, scream than I could 

1006
00:56:55,700 --> 00:56:57,800
before. 
We're shooting right through 

1007
00:56:57,800 --> 00:57:03,400
there because I had to just 
fully humiliate myself and then 

1008
00:57:03,400 --> 00:57:06,900
just go like okay well once 
that's happened you can't look 

1009
00:57:06,900 --> 00:57:13,200
any more stupid than Chang you 
do now and it just like let go 

1010
00:57:13,200 --> 00:57:15,700
of everything right? 
Just I don't know what I don't 

1011
00:57:15,700 --> 00:57:20,200
know why Ryback just be a just 
was overcome with What this need

1012
00:57:20,200 --> 00:57:23,800
to do that and I think it 
probably made you uncomfortable.

1013
00:57:26,700 --> 00:57:29,600
Are you wearing the same 
wherever you want the monitor? 

1014
00:57:29,800 --> 00:57:32,900
I had a feeling that you got 
very uncomfortable. 

1015
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:37,500
Did you hear it? 
I think. 

1016
00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:40,100
I know I remember knowing what 
you're doing. 

1017
00:57:40,100 --> 00:57:43,900
It felt to me like, you were 
kind of trying to scream 

1018
00:57:43,900 --> 00:57:47,400
yourself out of like a last, the
state you're in and didn't 

1019
00:57:47,400 --> 00:57:50,100
actually feel like even like a 
take, it somehow felt like you 

1020
00:57:50,107 --> 00:57:54,600
were trying to break out of 
something that matter where my 

1021
00:57:54,600 --> 00:57:57,300
awareness. 
Of yeah, big movie and crew. 

1022
00:57:57,300 --> 00:58:00,100
Yeah, exactly. 
Like having to do a thing and it

1023
00:58:00,100 --> 00:58:01,600
was shocking in a way that was 
exciting. 

1024
00:58:01,600 --> 00:58:04,600
I think because it did like jar 
everybody and I had and I felt 

1025
00:58:04,600 --> 00:58:07,100
like it was good because the 
energy in the room did suddenly 

1026
00:58:07,100 --> 00:58:11,500
become both alert and Disturbed 
and which was right, which is 

1027
00:58:11,500 --> 00:58:12,900
right for this is. 
Yeah. 

1028
00:58:12,900 --> 00:58:16,500
And that's I think that's what 
we were trying to get at is like

1029
00:58:16,500 --> 00:58:21,800
swing that is in a disturbed 
State and not moment and it's 

1030
00:58:21,800 --> 00:58:25,200
not there's not one emotion that
there. 

1031
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:27,700
I bet they're having a as 
manifesting. 

1032
00:58:27,700 --> 00:58:34,800
It is something very hard to 
pinpoint in some ways what the 

1033
00:58:34,800 --> 00:58:38,900
person is feeling precisely. 
Right signals horrible moments 

1034
00:58:39,100 --> 00:58:44,200
where you just don't quite know 
what to do and and again yeah I 

1035
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:47,700
think we kind of went into it. 
Going like this is what we'll do

1036
00:58:47,900 --> 00:58:50,600
so I would do that and then I 
have such appreciation for you 

1037
00:58:50,600 --> 00:58:55,200
because out of that you you 
recognize that there was 

1038
00:58:55,300 --> 00:58:58,100
something that there was a 
genuine State now that was like 

1039
00:58:58,100 --> 00:59:03,400
available and you didn't want to
control it, but you also knew 

1040
00:59:03,400 --> 00:59:08,600
that that it couldn't reveal 
itself at the top of the scene. 

1041
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:12,100
And it had to had to hold and 
everyone listening, you should 

1042
00:59:12,100 --> 00:59:14,200
please accident Artisan at the 
Monitor. 

1043
00:59:14,200 --> 00:59:18,800
And he said, I just want to be 
very precise about this and then

1044
00:59:18,800 --> 00:59:22,100
he told me like that you thought
that I shouldn't let it out that

1045
00:59:22,100 --> 00:59:25,200
it shouldn't reveal itself. 
Look, when you find me. 

1046
00:59:25,700 --> 00:59:26,600
I should be. 
Where was it? 

1047
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:30,200
The a dress like that? 
It's the, yeah, I think it was 

1048
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,500
where you started is where you 
should end like where you 

1049
00:59:33,508 --> 00:59:37,100
started and that take right 
before the expression, right? 

1050
00:59:37,100 --> 00:59:40,600
Like that's that's the yeah. 
That's where you're getting to. 

1051
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:45,600
Yes that was so good and I 
didn't at that moment I could I 

1052
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:50,200
just it's like as if generate 
something that I've no idea what

1053
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:53,300
the fuck it is but I don't know 
what to do. 

1054
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,000
I don't know what you do with 
it. 

1055
00:59:55,500 --> 00:59:58,900
Just because it was there and it
was so helpful. 

1056
01:00:00,400 --> 01:00:03,400
It's the biggest thing. 
This Lapointe, very I say, I 

1057
01:00:03,400 --> 01:00:06,000
have no idea. 
What's good, what's happening? 

1058
01:00:06,000 --> 01:00:08,900
What will work in? 
Just fucking open for the best. 

1059
01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:10,800
What? 
I keep the victory for actually,

1060
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:12,300
this movie. 
It's really, it's amazing. 

1061
01:00:12,400 --> 01:00:15,500
They're realizing, no, I really 
it's worth it. 

1062
01:00:15,500 --> 01:00:19,100
Yeah, it I mean I don't Kelowna 
shit because I always want more 

1063
01:00:19,100 --> 01:00:21,800
days but it's impossible but 
it's incredible. 

1064
01:00:21,800 --> 01:00:24,300
They they just moved being were 
so supporter for real. 

1065
01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:31,400
Thanks for listening. 
The 824 podcast is produced by 

1066
01:00:31,400 --> 01:00:35,500
us a 24 special. 
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt 

1067
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,500
and robot repair who composed 
our theme