1 00:00:02,900 --> 00:00:06,100 Hey and welcome back to the 824 podcast filmmaker. 2 00:00:06,100 --> 00:00:08,900 Mike Mills has made no secret of his love for the talking heads 3 00:00:09,300 --> 00:00:12,100 and a conversation between Mike and David Byrne has been at the 4 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:15,000 top of our podcast bucket list since 20th century women. 5 00:00:15,700 --> 00:00:17,600 We finally got them together last month. 6 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:19,400 The morning. After the New York Film Festival 7 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:21,400 premiere of Mike's newest film. Come on. 8 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,200 Come on. We hope you enjoyed the episode. 9 00:00:24,700 --> 00:00:26,700 You can see C'mon. C'mon, in theaters Nationwide 10 00:00:26,700 --> 00:00:29,100 this weekend. We can't recommend it enough. 11 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:34,200 Hi, this is Mike Mills. And I'm super honored to be here 12 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,400 with David Byrne friend of Mike's. 13 00:00:38,300 --> 00:00:43,200 And I'm thrilled to be here on a New York morning. 14 00:00:43,200 --> 00:00:45,800 Yeah, and we're doing an 824 podcast. 15 00:00:46,400 --> 00:00:48,100 I have lots of questions. Could I ask you a question? 16 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:52,200 That'd be awesome. Okay, that's Hopper seen this 17 00:00:52,200 --> 00:00:55,400 film. But yeah, this question Harper 18 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,600 has seen parts of the edit. So I edited it all through the 19 00:00:59,700 --> 00:01:01,600 pain. Democrat, right, and alone in my 20 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,099 office are ever casting remotely. 21 00:01:04,599 --> 00:01:08,700 And in the morning, I would do Zoom school with hopper like 22 00:01:08,700 --> 00:01:12,000 12:30 and then I go edit. So often Hopper and I'm down in 23 00:01:12,000 --> 00:01:13,700 my office. That's yes. 24 00:01:13,700 --> 00:01:17,800 I have as I real Advanced sense of Art and the meta-analysis of 25 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,400 like my films about people. I know a very in tune with it, 26 00:01:21,400 --> 00:01:23,700 gets it more than I do. I actually think huh. 27 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:28,000 I said to them, I think I want to make a film. 28 00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:29,900 It's kind of about us a little bit. 29 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:34,200 It starts there, you know, and when you think about that and 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:38,400 Hopper said is that you mean like like, you know how people 31 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,900 are really huge and if you're lucky and we make a film about 32 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:44,300 them, you might get a sliver of that person, but there was all 33 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:48,100 this hugeness leftovers and I was like, wait, that's what I 34 00:01:48,100 --> 00:01:49,800 say about. My movies is like, now, I know 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:55,500 I've heard you say that and he's like in and I think opposites. 36 00:01:55,500 --> 00:01:59,900 I mean, like, you know, you're very you're very repetitive, how 37 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,900 How did, how did the script evolve I'm really curious 38 00:02:02,900 --> 00:02:09,100 because the writing it's it feels like odd conversation just 39 00:02:09,100 --> 00:02:11,400 being captured. It doesn't feel like oh we're 40 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:13,500 following a script as is taking us somewhere. 41 00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:15,700 We know it with, you know, there's all kind of it doesn't 42 00:02:15,700 --> 00:02:18,000 feel like there's a plot line, hidden. 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:22,800 It just feels like oh, these are almost documentary moments. 44 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:24,100 It feels like that. But you that? 45 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:26,100 Well, how do you how do you write that? 46 00:02:26,200 --> 00:02:28,400 Uh-huh? Well, I think part of the effect 47 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:30,800 they're talking about where it doesn't feel like Seen announces 48 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,800 itself and it goes through an arc, then ends. 49 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,300 A lot of that's actually also in the editing, you know, like 50 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,700 finding we're obviously we shoot more than what you see and 51 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:43,100 finding those points is actually a part of the writing process. 52 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:46,500 Obviously, you know, it's like that editing process for me. 53 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:51,300 The suspension of disbelief is very thin or doesn't happen. 54 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:54,200 So I had to enchant myself and it, like, trying to do a script 55 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,800 and I not like a born writer. I'm not like a, I don't identify 56 00:02:57,800 --> 00:02:59,400 as a writer. A lot of times. 57 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,500 I think it's a It's a very empowering when I write. 58 00:03:01,500 --> 00:03:03,900 I don't have any Pride about it. You know, I'm sort of by any 59 00:03:03,900 --> 00:03:06,200 means necessary. I had to like talk myself into a 60 00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:08,800 lot of have to re re convince myself. 61 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:10,800 It's worth doing all that kind of stuff. 62 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,300 And one of the key ways that I can believe in. 63 00:03:16,300 --> 00:03:19,700 It is like a, if I know the person I've seen this stuff 64 00:03:19,700 --> 00:03:23,600 happened, if I coming from like a reporting place and, and also 65 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,400 of like, yeah, there's someone usually, there's someone, I love 66 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,700 and real life at the center of these last films. 67 00:03:30,700 --> 00:03:33,900 And also like some deep Challenge questions and I can't 68 00:03:33,900 --> 00:03:38,000 figure out that like turns in me and that look, okay, I can start 69 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,900 writing so it started with stuff that happened in my life and 70 00:03:41,900 --> 00:03:43,600 stuff. I saw Hopper do and also the 71 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,200 world of Hopper like all their friends, people at school, other 72 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,400 moms. I met teachers just like that 73 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:56,000 whole world of childhood and my favorite way to write is to like 74 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:58,900 something happened and I pretty much just like scoop it up and 75 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:01,700 then the real writing It's like, how do you align, those things 76 00:04:01,700 --> 00:04:03,300 too? That, make some kind of story, 77 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:05,500 but I'm not interested in stories, have a lot of 78 00:04:05,508 --> 00:04:08,600 causality, you know, like, I like certain sitting in the 79 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,900 space of it, you know, it has have some causality, are people 80 00:04:11,900 --> 00:04:14,100 get bored. But it's like trying to figure 81 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:18,100 that out. So often I'll steal pieces. 82 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,800 I heard or like Aaron dessner and from the national his kid 83 00:04:22,100 --> 00:04:24,500 Ingrid. Does that orphan thing, you 84 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,500 know, so this is the we're at their house and they're talking 85 00:04:27,500 --> 00:04:28,000 about. Oh my God. 86 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000 This kid does his harvesting, were they? 87 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,700 All day long. They make me roleplay that my 88 00:04:32,700 --> 00:04:34,900 children have died and they've come to replace them and they 89 00:04:34,900 --> 00:04:37,000 have all these rules and I was like, that's fascinating. 90 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,800 Can I, you know, I can like I sat on it was like a week later. 91 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,700 They are in, could I take that? And I could I and then Aaron 92 00:04:42,700 --> 00:04:45,000 actually interviewed Ingrid like what is this story again? 93 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:46,800 And he sent me some text things of it. 94 00:04:47,300 --> 00:04:49,300 That kind of process is my favorite thing. 95 00:04:49,300 --> 00:04:52,100 I feel like alive. I feel like a journalist a 96 00:04:52,100 --> 00:04:54,500 little bit more than like a fictional writer. 97 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:58,100 So that goes on for like a year and a half that kind of work, 98 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,900 very alone. I like Right by like drinking a 99 00:05:01,907 --> 00:05:05,100 lot of coffee often listening to like something from rain Main 100 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:09,200 and light on Loop and sort of like in chanting myself standing 101 00:05:09,200 --> 00:05:12,500 up, dancing around and do that for a long time. 102 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:17,200 Then the wonderful thing happens where I meet the actor person 103 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:20,200 and I love giving it over to them. 104 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,300 Like I have to give it to them to like change and do their own 105 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:27,300 way and like or in this process me and walking talked about the 106 00:05:27,300 --> 00:05:29,500 script so much. It's how I convinced him into 107 00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:33,000 doing the Film like him and me reading it over and over again, 108 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:37,800 changing things, having new ideas walking talking. 109 00:05:37,800 --> 00:05:40,400 A lot about not just his character, just the whole movie. 110 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,200 And he's so smart. Interesting fun to play with is 111 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,900 like a no, you must, I think musicians have this much more 112 00:05:46,900 --> 00:05:49,100 than writers. Like, you get this Playmate. 113 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,500 Mmm, and it brings out all the stuff in you and your 114 00:05:52,500 --> 00:05:55,800 intelligence just Rises and your the camaraderie to get to finish 115 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:56,300 it. Right? 116 00:05:56,300 --> 00:06:01,600 Like I love that. So when you In these moments. 117 00:06:03,000 --> 00:06:05,900 You're not necessarily starting at the beginning and kind of 118 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:08,700 working your way through and thinking about three acts and 119 00:06:08,700 --> 00:06:12,700 all that kind of stuff. Yeah, so I try to never do that 120 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,600 or like collect a lot. So I'll collect for, like, six 121 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:16,500 months. Yeah. 122 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:18,500 And just like, write in a notebook. 123 00:06:18,500 --> 00:06:21,500 I used to just doing a card. So there's no script around no, 124 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:23,400 no digital. Anything. 125 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:26,600 I've actually thought about stories of heard of you doing 126 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:27,900 true stories. Like you just do all the 127 00:06:27,900 --> 00:06:29,000 pictures, right? Exactly. 128 00:06:29,000 --> 00:06:33,600 Yeah, I started with and that this Situation. 129 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,400 Yeah, what do you mean by that? I would like an odd situation of 130 00:06:36,400 --> 00:06:38,700 an odd person. A person who's kind of a little 131 00:06:38,700 --> 00:06:41,800 eccentric right in this kind of location. 132 00:06:41,900 --> 00:06:44,100 This Is How They Live. This is what they're fascinated 133 00:06:44,100 --> 00:06:47,000 with and then I had no idea how I was going to thread that. 134 00:06:47,100 --> 00:06:48,000 Yeah. Yeah. 135 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:51,400 I've seen a picture of like you did a lot of drawings. 136 00:06:51,500 --> 00:06:53,000 Yeah. Sounds like a visual. 137 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,600 Yeah, like expect physical situation, right? 138 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,600 Exactly. Wasn't exactly storyboards, but 139 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,300 it was on the way to being storyboard. 140 00:07:01,300 --> 00:07:03,900 Yeah. What I love to Do maybe one of 141 00:07:03,907 --> 00:07:07,200 my most favorite things is when I'm discarding by myself and I'm 142 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:10,500 taking a bunch of pictures like Chinatown between two Bridges to 143 00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:14,100 figure out and I have thought about that process of yours a 144 00:07:14,100 --> 00:07:15,100 lot. Because in then I get these 145 00:07:15,100 --> 00:07:19,800 images and I start doing that, moving them around on him and I 146 00:07:19,800 --> 00:07:24,400 PDF and I kind of figure out the texture of the film visually 147 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,400 rather than something like Words black and white. 148 00:07:28,500 --> 00:07:32,200 Uh-huh. Did you wrestle with whether to 149 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:34,400 shoot him? I can white or not, or whether 150 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,400 like what that might imply, what people might think of do. 151 00:07:38,400 --> 00:07:40,900 You think ahead and go? Oh, well, people think of this 152 00:07:40,900 --> 00:07:45,200 and yeah, for sure. I love black and white movies 153 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,400 and they're their own species. And I'm old enough now. 154 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:53,200 Like, got to do it, you know, and, and then just in my heart, 155 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,700 I would love to do it. And then this story came around 156 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:58,600 and there's one part of store that I always saw a black and 157 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,200 white. That's like the male, the adult 158 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,900 figure and the child. Figure just like walking through 159 00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:06,000 space like that image. Hmm. 160 00:08:06,600 --> 00:08:12,000 And walking through cities and to me that it's in black and 161 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:16,000 white it because it has like an archetypal Fable quality to it. 162 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,500 Yeah, and when seems to make some a black-and-white really 163 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:20,700 exception abstraction, I feel like you've said to the 164 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:21,100 audience. Okay. 165 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:24,600 This is a drawing or this is, this isn't saying it's reality. 166 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,400 It's like something different and it gives you sort of more 167 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:29,200 Elbow Room. I feel like it's a filmmaker 168 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:31,500 like totally, you can shift around easier. 169 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:34,200 And it does crazy things as Sound. 170 00:08:34,200 --> 00:08:37,299 And Music, I didn't like my sound mix to this movie. 171 00:08:37,799 --> 00:08:41,299 There is so much fully. There's so many backgrounds. 172 00:08:41,700 --> 00:08:44,600 It's like just chock-full of sound and the pink black and 173 00:08:44,600 --> 00:08:46,900 white allows that more of that to come in, you know, it 174 00:08:46,900 --> 00:08:51,800 requires more but it just eats the sound and you enjoy the 175 00:08:51,800 --> 00:08:53,500 ride. I think the sound replaces the 176 00:08:54,900 --> 00:08:57,200 lanes at where the color or something like that. 177 00:08:57,200 --> 00:08:59,900 Mmm, and I've never do that kind of stuff in my other movies, 178 00:08:59,900 --> 00:09:02,500 like if joaquin's hand goes through his hair. 179 00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:06,000 Its Fleet to out, in addition to the production sound. 180 00:09:06,300 --> 00:09:11,100 It's a super layered sound and and the Foley was so real fully 181 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:14,800 stages hardly exist anywhere. Now they exist in the country of 182 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:16,600 Georgia. There's like one of those love 183 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,700 film studios that's got the real fully staged with a different 184 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:21,900 pins into gravel and all kinds of stuff. 185 00:09:22,000 --> 00:09:24,800 And these guys are my amazing Zach. 186 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,100 Severs, my Atomic sir, he be we're in this big beautiful 187 00:09:28,100 --> 00:09:30,400 stage and happy like at that roller skates. 188 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:33,300 Don't sound right? Like those are not And wheels as 189 00:09:33,300 --> 00:09:36,200 are you know other Wheels like and hear it, I'd see him texting 190 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:38,700 and then like 20 minutes later. I hear like the right sounds 191 00:09:38,700 --> 00:09:43,400 like we texting is like the country of Georgia is there and 192 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,500 so all the sound of my movie actually is from Eastern Europe. 193 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,000 I get what you're saying that that black and white. 194 00:09:56,400 --> 00:09:59,100 Is a little bit of a distancing effect. 195 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:05,300 Yeah, it kind of says yeah, this is Not quite the real world. 196 00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:07,000 Yeah. Looks like the real world. 197 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:10,000 Yeah, it has a very close resemblance to the real world. 198 00:10:10,000 --> 00:10:11,300 But we're telling you a story here. 199 00:10:11,400 --> 00:10:13,300 Yeah, we're telling a story. I really. 200 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:15,300 And I like that bunch of reasons. 201 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:19,000 Also my film me, and the subject matter of this film could be so 202 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,900 too, sweet. You know, I could be. 203 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:24,100 Oh, yeah, I wrote you about that nice, but that's one of the 204 00:10:24,100 --> 00:10:26,300 decisions that I knew my Tendencies. 205 00:10:26,300 --> 00:10:29,100 Like I just want to go. Give everyone a hug, huh, and 206 00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:33,800 you got to can't just do that all the time and Joaquin. 207 00:10:33,800 --> 00:10:36,500 And I worked against that a lot and really nice productive way. 208 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:39,700 But also like black white will help this like, it'll help to 209 00:10:39,700 --> 00:10:43,500 take this. Take some of the sauce off the 210 00:10:43,500 --> 00:10:47,000 child image. Yes, you know, and off of my 211 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:51,500 Tendencies, you know, so that'll be positive then making it like 212 00:10:51,500 --> 00:10:52,800 you frame something of a black-and-white. 213 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,000 You're like, oh, the way that window is against the back of 214 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,900 your head. It's like a visualization of 215 00:10:56,900 --> 00:10:59,200 your energy. Like so many of the frames in 216 00:10:59,200 --> 00:11:02,400 that movie feel like German expressionist to me like the 217 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,800 crazy. Oak trees, in New Orleans. 218 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,200 Oh, yeah, when you're talking about like by a bipolar dad's, 219 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,400 like it's the your brain was like, glue the two things 220 00:11:10,400 --> 00:11:14,600 together more are. Speaking of that. 221 00:11:14,600 --> 00:11:19,100 I wrote to Mike. I'm talking to the listener now. 222 00:11:19,100 --> 00:11:25,900 Yeah, saying how it was. I really noticed how a story 223 00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:29,200 like this could very easily slip into kind of syrupy 224 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:32,200 sentimentality. That kind of thing, but you 225 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:38,100 never went there. You kind of waved at it, but 226 00:11:38,500 --> 00:11:41,500 never completely went in there at the characters and the acting 227 00:11:41,500 --> 00:11:47,300 and the writing all kept, it'll just a little bit odd and little 228 00:11:47,300 --> 00:11:51,100 bit off-kilter and surprising the things people would say. 229 00:11:52,300 --> 00:11:55,300 Because would say, We're all kind of surprising so they 230 00:11:55,300 --> 00:12:01,800 weren't like working your kind of your heart and all that. 231 00:12:01,800 --> 00:12:05,200 Hmm, you didn't feel manipulated and the way that you do when 232 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:07,900 something is obviously sentimental. 233 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,500 Yeah. That was. 234 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:12,900 Did you have to consciously? Think about that? 235 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:13,800 Sometimes in go. Okay. 236 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,300 Oh, no, I have to change that. That's a little too much of an 237 00:12:18,300 --> 00:12:19,500 obvious. Yeah. 238 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:21,700 Need to be hugged. Ya know a lot. 239 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:25,600 Yeah. That was it that was made when 240 00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:31,200 the majors May jurist, biggest concerns also because I I really 241 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:35,500 I am old enough now to know like some of my strengths and my 242 00:12:35,500 --> 00:12:38,200 weaknesses and that's actually one that is a weakness of mine. 243 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:42,400 Like II want a certain connective emotionality or enjoy 244 00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:44,000 it so much. I want the song to have the 245 00:12:44,000 --> 00:12:47,100 course all the time. Anyways, that was one of the 246 00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:50,100 funnest things about me and joaquin's connection is like 247 00:12:50,100 --> 00:12:53,400 he's so hyper aware of stuff like that and just bullshit and 248 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:57,200 They're all power dynamics when you're trying to manipulate an 249 00:12:57,200 --> 00:12:58,900 audience. Like he's really allergic to it 250 00:12:58,900 --> 00:13:02,300 in a very intelligent way. Mmm, and I think he was happy 251 00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:04,800 that I was like really alive to any of his comments and that 252 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,700 direction, you know, be like, please more what else what else 253 00:13:07,700 --> 00:13:10,300 smells fishy, dude, like let's yeah, let's have it all out. 254 00:13:10,300 --> 00:13:12,800 So that was really lovely. And that would I think he really 255 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:16,400 helped make the film not sentimental and and being my 256 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,200 partner in like always checking that. 257 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:20,100 Yeah. In a way keeping all that at 258 00:13:20,100 --> 00:13:23,100 arm's length became like a strength. 259 00:13:23,500 --> 00:13:26,000 On that sighs. Yeah, rather than a weakness. 260 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:29,600 Yeah. I've watched it a little bit at 261 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:33,200 Sally Hall and I kind of felt like something accruing, you 262 00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:36,000 know, like that that I hadn't experienced quite a weight like 263 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,900 me, when easier from projected is so weird with a bunch of 264 00:13:38,900 --> 00:13:41,600 people, it transforms. I'm sure you've had this 265 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,000 experience but like I felt like this weird way that like slowly 266 00:13:45,000 --> 00:13:47,900 accrues things and I was like I had so I hope it does. 267 00:13:47,900 --> 00:13:50,700 It's like a nice compliment and I it's only after like so many 268 00:13:50,700 --> 00:13:53,300 layers of like work and editing and stuff like that, that maybe 269 00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:55,900 that That happens. But the other answer this 270 00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,600 question is like, walking is really so intelligent and Savvy. 271 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,600 Gabby is so smart, you know, like Gabby and and hates 272 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,200 bullshit and hates something that's trying to like, get get 273 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,100 you. You know, Woody is like that too 274 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,000 Woody and he's British. He's very lovely is very like so 275 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:16,900 mature and his most mature, much more mature than Gabby and, and, 276 00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,700 and walking, if I find that, that's not a cute joke is like 277 00:14:19,700 --> 00:14:21,900 he's much more professional, lots of ways. 278 00:14:22,000 --> 00:14:24,800 He's not performing for the Camera, like so many kids are 279 00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:27,200 taught to like like Shine for the camera. 280 00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:32,200 He needs often looking away. It's as if it didn't exist, he's 281 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:34,000 even not super performing for me. 282 00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,800 And I really sort of try to encourage that, you know, like 283 00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:40,400 don't don't just try to please me and he'd have that he has a 284 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,300 strong thing. Anyways, he has like a real 285 00:14:42,300 --> 00:14:45,300 strong sense of self. How did you find him this 286 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:46,900 casting? Just like the wow. 287 00:14:46,900 --> 00:14:48,500 Just came through in the first round. 288 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:49,600 Wow. Yeah. 289 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:52,700 That is well. Okay, that's pretty amazing. 290 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:55,200 Yeah. Now, me and my came both, like 291 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,400 this film might have in mind that it's to see if you could 292 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,900 get a kid, you know? Yeah, and then, like, he was a 293 00:14:59,908 --> 00:15:02,600 little like kid to very lucky in a way. 294 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,700 Yeah. No, it's insanely lucky this. 295 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:10,200 I mentioned this earlier. This is the first film I've seen 296 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:14,800 in a movie theater. Well, since they inject a year 297 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:19,400 and a half, yeah, whatever. And the audience and I were all 298 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:23,100 having this experience of not only is it a great movie but 299 00:15:23,100 --> 00:15:26,900 it's like So here we're watching a movie again in the theater and 300 00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:30,900 look how amazing it is. Yeah, and how I mean, it's Alice 301 00:15:30,900 --> 00:15:34,000 Tully's Film Festival. So it's beautiful projection. 302 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,400 Yeah. Sound is great. 303 00:15:35,400 --> 00:15:37,700 All that kind of stuff. Yeah, but at the same time, you 304 00:15:37,700 --> 00:15:41,100 just thinking, this is the experience we've been missing. 305 00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:43,000 It's, I've had a really emotional. 306 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:45,000 We first showed the film in Telluride. 307 00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,600 And so when I added a movie, I never once saw it in a room with 308 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:52,600 anyone else the whole time. Not once I was sitting next to 309 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,300 your assistant, Yeah, and he said the same thing. 310 00:15:55,300 --> 00:15:59,000 He's honest. He's seen it many times where 311 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,800 it's just him checking this key seated. 312 00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:04,500 A lot of times. Yeah, checking the sound quality 313 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:07,100 in the injection quality and yeah, this kind of stuff and 314 00:16:07,100 --> 00:16:09,400 because we've never really seen it with him. 315 00:16:09,500 --> 00:16:10,700 An audience. Yeah. 316 00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:12,900 Does it feel my crew sitting next to you? 317 00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,300 Uh-huh, and they, yeah, they're all so lovely that they got to 318 00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:19,400 see it there. I think that's like the best 319 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,400 theater in the world. It's pretty amazing. 320 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:25,700 Yeah, and my film Format is 166. You know something taller 321 00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,000 format. I have a picture of it. 322 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,400 It fits right into the architecture like the proscenium 323 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,500 is like built for my movie, and I think that was the highlight. 324 00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:40,500 I think that was it music in the in the movie. 325 00:16:40,500 --> 00:16:44,200 I recognized a couple of I think I recognized a really early like 326 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:45,200 Lou Reed. Yeah. 327 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:46,800 Felt underground somewhere summative. 328 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,200 This is when the right d wrote for Pickwick or whatever. 329 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:50,900 It was. Yeah. 330 00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:52,200 He was like a staff writer. Yeah. 331 00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:53,300 Yeah. Yeah. 332 00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:56,300 Just thought you know, you always think this is a guy. 333 00:16:56,300 --> 00:17:00,500 They hired as a staff writer that song, dude, that's called 334 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:03,100 the ostrich and lyric shirt is off the wall. 335 00:17:03,900 --> 00:17:08,000 It's really such a lovely Farrell song and did it. 336 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:10,200 So I did it Irma Thomas long learned coming into, no, to 337 00:17:10,200 --> 00:17:12,900 Norland. Yeah, kind of whatever just felt 338 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:14,500 great. So I was kind of looking for a 339 00:17:14,500 --> 00:17:17,500 New York song. Hmm, and I had to avoid you 340 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:20,599 because I've exploited your catalogs, you much. 341 00:17:20,900 --> 00:17:23,300 So bounce around so many different things. 342 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:25,800 Things. But then that one came out at 343 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:29,500 that, I love how it kind of hard to place that song and it felt 344 00:17:29,500 --> 00:17:31,700 like it was in Johnny's record collection to me. 345 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:35,700 Yeah, and then the desk nurse did the the score? 346 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,000 Yes, which is a really important part. 347 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:39,900 I think people have them. Yeah. 348 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:44,100 Highly collaborative Engine with you, or with the with each 349 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:45,300 other. Everyone. 350 00:17:45,500 --> 00:17:47,900 Like they're so polyamorous musically. 351 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,800 It's insane and and really beautifully so like I learned a 352 00:17:51,808 --> 00:17:55,100 lot hanging out with them. About collaborating and like, 353 00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:58,700 openness and like one of their songs might have like, eight 354 00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,500 different people playing on it, besides their band, right, you 355 00:18:01,500 --> 00:18:03,500 know, okay. So what was the process then? 356 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,100 So is all remote. But I started to talk to them 357 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:08,500 before the before shooting because I've done this long 358 00:18:08,500 --> 00:18:13,100 project with them and I written a lot of the script at Erin's 359 00:18:13,100 --> 00:18:16,100 Studio Upstate or just while I was working on stuff with that 360 00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:18,200 and many ways. I feel like they really found 361 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:21,000 the heart of the movie, like, the, the psyche is very 362 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,900 emotional, but it's like trying to be so My platonic went wrong 363 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,200 and they found that line more than anything. 364 00:18:28,200 --> 00:18:31,100 Yeah, it's not telling you how to feel but but is really 365 00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:31,900 emotional. Yeah. 366 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,000 Without that music the film does not want. 367 00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:37,800 Yeah. And then they did more just sort 368 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,400 of symphonic e things because I thought I wanted because there's 369 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:42,900 like a classical quality to the movie. 370 00:18:42,900 --> 00:18:44,700 To me. It's like part documentary part. 371 00:18:44,700 --> 00:18:48,200 Very now part very free and like Mike Lee film, you know, and 372 00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:51,300 then part like a fable 2 meter or like I thought about 373 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:52,900 Casablanca. I like all the framings I 374 00:18:52,900 --> 00:18:55,600 cleaned. Ingles person-centered, you 375 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,000 know, it's like old Hollywood movie in some ways. 376 00:18:58,100 --> 00:19:00,500 So I thought I'd like a classical score like strings and 377 00:19:00,500 --> 00:19:03,400 all that. So, I learned, I learned a lot 378 00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:06,400 being around that, maybe it helps that you're not another 379 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:07,500 musician. Yeah. 380 00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:10,400 No, it totally. So you're hearing things from 381 00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:13,900 whatever filmmaker, or visual point of view, or storytelling 382 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:15,300 point of view, or some other point of view. 383 00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:17,400 And it's not like there are super into that. 384 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,300 I didn't I because I would talk about each other as a story. 385 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,700 How do you, how do you consume? Music? 386 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:25,100 How do you do? Do you listen to music? 387 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:28,300 Do you make sometimes, listen to vinyl not all the time, but 388 00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,800 it's, it's a thing, you can go. This is very intentional. 389 00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:35,300 Yeah, listen cabinets recommend to turn it and you have like a 390 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:37,200 connection or relationship, right? 391 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:39,600 And certain records sound like amazing. 392 00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:41,900 It's like medicine. So like that will like, help me 393 00:19:41,900 --> 00:19:44,400 are like, when I'm, so, when I'm writing, I have to listen to 394 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:47,400 music very loud on headphones, very well needed. 395 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:52,000 Well on Loop, it's it has, it's like a song or a record or a few 396 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,800 songs, like on Loop. Hmm. 397 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:57,800 All day long. Wow, so you say it's like an 398 00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,300 enchantment thing? Yes. 399 00:19:59,300 --> 00:19:59,900 Yes. Yes. 400 00:19:59,900 --> 00:20:04,400 Oh you yeah becomes because I just get myself out of the 401 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:06,800 picture visual references. Yeah. 402 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:11,300 Did you have once the original references you were conscious of 403 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,600 besides the aspect ratio and yeah, of for older movies. 404 00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:19,000 So par lassic ratio is a nod to Allison the cities that are. 405 00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:19,900 Oh, yeah. Yeah. 406 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:22,500 Yeah, so that film was, that was like at times pretty depressed. 407 00:20:22,500 --> 00:20:26,500 After we left. Maybe 2016 really lost white 408 00:20:26,500 --> 00:20:27,400 man. Cultural space. 409 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:28,300 What the hell am I? Do? 410 00:20:28,300 --> 00:20:35,000 You know, I mean, and, and also just Dad and and I kept watching 411 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,500 else and cities are just parts of it. 412 00:20:37,500 --> 00:20:40,400 Mmm. And such a beautiful movie, such 413 00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,200 a beautiful space. You know, it my movie time. 414 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:45,900 I was like, man. He's as like a blues riff, you 415 00:20:45,900 --> 00:20:49,300 know, and kind of Fill In My Own lyrics and change it around, but 416 00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:51,700 like, it, I owe a lot to that in the kid. 417 00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:54,500 Where's the? Kid in the film was wearing a 418 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,000 shirt that has the coat of arms of wuppertal, you know, the 419 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,400 whole city where they end up and. 420 00:20:58,400 --> 00:21:03,300 Yeah, so acknowledgment, but Robbie Miller's photography and 421 00:21:03,300 --> 00:21:06,500 that bright Alma, so gorgeous and like very classic and very 422 00:21:06,500 --> 00:21:12,100 sort of French new wave at the same time feeling to me and and 423 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:17,300 Gordon Willis is just huge that cinematographer did like so many 424 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:19,400 Woody Allen films are so many other films. 425 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,400 All the President's Men, Godfathers. 426 00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:29,700 I-i'm always, I just admire him to death and all my films are 427 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:35,400 been studying him forever. So you the visual references are 428 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:40,200 mainly other films. No, no, graphic art or 429 00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,400 paintings, or no. So that there's other things 430 00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:44,700 that are like these. I keep using the word 431 00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:48,700 enchantment which is stupid but Like I'd so I need so much 432 00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:52,300 talking into my own projects and ran is not like that at all. 433 00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:55,500 Like she's very convinced and I'm very unconvinced. 434 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,600 I need these other things like be company and I often think of 435 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,000 it as like these unrequited relationships of having with 436 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,800 other artists, right? Just like jump in. 437 00:22:04,300 --> 00:22:07,600 So like many or like a Bernard drawing or a David hockney 438 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,400 drawing. That's part of why it's black 439 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:11,500 and white to like those drawings have this egg. 440 00:22:11,500 --> 00:22:14,100 Weird, immediacy and sketchiness, but it's like this 441 00:22:14,100 --> 00:22:16,600 intimacy and quickness, and like, I'm right there. 442 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,800 With David, Hocking drawing the person on the couch and that was 443 00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:21,800 part of. Like, I kept saying to myself, 444 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:25,600 the movie is a drawing. Not a painting, like, it has 445 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:27,100 that. Yeah, but Rowan's feel like 446 00:22:27,100 --> 00:22:30,100 they're, they're closer to the head or heart or whatever. 447 00:22:30,100 --> 00:22:33,400 They're just like, right now, here's something right. 448 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,000 So I wanted that at me and Robbie talked a lot, my DP, 449 00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:38,900 Robbie Ryan. We talked a lot about like that 450 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:40,500 immediacy. And and for some reason, think 451 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,200 the simplest like those men, a portraits of the person's to 452 00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:45,000 some black and they're right in the middle. 453 00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:49,600 And there's something kind of Like it's beginning like that 454 00:22:49,700 --> 00:22:52,600 pain is beginning to be used as a representation of itself. 455 00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:56,900 There's some kind of like scum Bolinas and I don't know how to 456 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:58,800 say that better. But like there's some kind of 457 00:22:58,808 --> 00:23:01,600 like it's he has like, a slightly amateurish quality. 458 00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:05,000 Mmm, you know, that's like kind of chunky or something like 459 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:07,900 that. So just those adjectives like to 460 00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:10,500 me, I was sort of chasing those additives. 461 00:23:10,500 --> 00:23:15,800 A little bit like songs are big. They're definitely be a feeling 462 00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:17,700 like this. I could The shift to the chorus 463 00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:21,000 of a song and that that will be like I'm going for that. 464 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:24,400 You know, I got that feeling you said you had you kind of have to 465 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:28,900 be talked into doing project. Is that from friends you talk to 466 00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:29,900 you? Yeah. 467 00:23:29,900 --> 00:23:32,600 Friends and go. I'm thinking about this. 468 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:36,400 Yeah, and you want to see what their reaction is and yeah, 469 00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,300 that's part of it, but she they're all like that sounds so 470 00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:40,600 great. You got to do that. 471 00:23:40,700 --> 00:23:42,300 Well, luckily. I have friends who don't say 472 00:23:42,300 --> 00:23:44,000 that. Oh, really help, you know, 473 00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:44,600 really? Well. 474 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,900 Yeah, but but not that part. Or and I really rely on that and 475 00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:51,800 I love that more and more to me, art is like, a way to make 476 00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:56,500 friends or have connections with people like this, you know, it's 477 00:23:56,500 --> 00:24:00,000 the beautiful part of it. So, I seek it out too. 478 00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:03,200 It's like, I have a few friends. It's at the way I can get them 479 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:09,300 to lunch during the pandemic. I watched all the old Hitchcock, 480 00:24:09,500 --> 00:24:11,900 uh-huh. Black and white British movies. 481 00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,000 Yeah. Kind of the early stuff before 482 00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:15,600 he started doing the really well-known. 483 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:16,600 Yeah. Move. 484 00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:25,400 He's I love them there. I think so different than what 485 00:24:25,700 --> 00:24:27,800 you do. What I would do there. 486 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:31,300 So tightly plotted. So manipulative. 487 00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:35,100 So manipulated everything. Every moment is leading. 488 00:24:35,100 --> 00:24:38,600 You take a jewel. Yeah, and you just marvel at 489 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:40,600 that. Yeah, the Clockwork. 490 00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:44,600 Yeah, aspect of that. During the pandemic, I couldn't 491 00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:50,100 eat a lot of trouble. Watching anything that was going 492 00:24:50,100 --> 00:24:54,900 to be too emotionally traumatic. Absolutely, especially because 493 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,100 I'd watch at the end of the day end of the day. 494 00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,800 Yeah, I'd make myself dinner and watch something and I just go I 495 00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:02,900 do not want to go to bed. Yeah. 496 00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:04,800 With something incredibly disturbing. 497 00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:06,500 Yeah. Emotionally disturbing in my 498 00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:12,600 head. Yeah, eventually I moved to 499 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:20,000 Documentaries, which some of which, of course are disturbing? 500 00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,700 Yeah. I'm almost done with those. 501 00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:23,500 Yeah. Yeah. 502 00:25:25,900 --> 00:25:28,600 Yeah. I've gotten really into Farmar 503 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:29,900 Germany. And the Bauhaus. 504 00:25:29,900 --> 00:25:32,000 Oh my God, because it's like, it's stuff. 505 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,200 I love about period. Anyways, and it's like kind of 506 00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:37,000 what you're saying. It's like, I'm going to be okay. 507 00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:44,200 I'm worrying about the rectilinear arity and and And in 508 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:46,300 the relationship of weaving to Fine Arts. 509 00:25:46,300 --> 00:25:48,500 Like this is great. I could I can go to sleep. 510 00:25:48,500 --> 00:25:49,200 The other one. I do. 511 00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:51,700 It's kind of maybe someone we talking about, is I if I'm 512 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,500 stressed out and panicky, which often happened that night. 513 00:25:54,800 --> 00:25:58,000 I'll just think through Downton Abbey plot lines are just try to 514 00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:01,200 find one character story and I'll be asleep in like 10 515 00:26:01,200 --> 00:26:06,500 minutes. I have a case, not with Downton 516 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:08,800 Abbey, but I have occasionally done that where I go. 517 00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:11,800 Help what happened after that. Yeah. 518 00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:14,000 What happened after? Yeah, how did they do that? 519 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:15,900 Is just to save yourself from your own brain. 520 00:26:15,900 --> 00:26:17,700 Realistic. Keep yourself out of your 521 00:26:17,800 --> 00:26:19,200 crocodile mouth. Yeah. 522 00:26:19,900 --> 00:26:21,400 Yeah. Can I ask you? 523 00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:28,100 Of course, I've I would love to know, like you were so prolific 524 00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,400 and and continually, like, changing things, and Reinventing 525 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:34,600 things and not relying on things, you know. 526 00:26:35,500 --> 00:26:39,600 Um, obviously that's just like your way are your you've 527 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:44,400 committed to that like a long time ago, like change or but how 528 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,600 the hell you do? Like, how, or how do you keep it 529 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,200 going? Or I don't know. 530 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:53,100 Is there a is there like a constant process to how you try 531 00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:56,000 to come up with ideas and their works and songs? 532 00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:57,600 Or first of all? Yes. 533 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,400 It doesn't always work. There's that a fair amount of 534 00:27:01,700 --> 00:27:05,100 have a really strong idea and then you go actually. 535 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:11,000 Didn't ya didn't really work. Lyrics out job, drop-down 536 00:27:11,500 --> 00:27:18,600 phrases, occasionally and And so sometimes sit down and they'll 537 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,400 just kind of pour out occasionally. 538 00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,900 I'll finish a record or something and I'll go. 539 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:25,300 Oh, okay. I met. 540 00:27:25,300 --> 00:27:27,700 Yeah, I made a record. I'm really happy with it and 541 00:27:27,700 --> 00:27:32,000 I'll listen to what's kind of on the radio which yeah on the top 542 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:34,100 pin or whatever and go. Wow. 543 00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:39,300 I'm kind of out of touch. Not, not sonically, I don't 544 00:27:39,300 --> 00:27:40,800 think. Yeah, I don't think they were 545 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,400 melodically. Yeah, but lyrically, I feel like 546 00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:48,900 we're There are other people doing a little bit what I do. 547 00:27:48,900 --> 00:27:54,100 But I feel like we're we're still writing about the same 548 00:27:54,100 --> 00:27:57,500 things. We would you mean you? 549 00:27:57,500 --> 00:28:03,100 I mean like the the not not that they'll ever grow tired. 550 00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:08,000 But there's the it just dominated by love songs or yeah. 551 00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:10,600 Pain songs. Are divorced songs this or that 552 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,500 the other all fine. Yeah. 553 00:28:12,500 --> 00:28:17,000 Oh good, but I feel like what could be more to It doesn't have 554 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:20,400 to be all only that. Yeah, but okay. 555 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:25,700 Yeah, but that might just be me. Well, I think you you like it 556 00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,600 makes me think of like you and like gang of four is some 557 00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:30,900 people, my life. You're like offered that up. 558 00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:33,300 Like there's another space, besides all those sort of like 559 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:35,000 love songs, you know? Yes. 560 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,800 And occasionally, I'd hear somebody else who does that and 561 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:42,000 I'm scope. That is amazing that you can. 562 00:28:42,700 --> 00:28:44,400 There's emerging artists, younger. 563 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:45,900 Artists that I hear it. Yeah, don't do that. 564 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:48,200 And I just This is really amazing. 565 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,900 Yeah, I didn't know you could write about that. 566 00:28:50,900 --> 00:28:52,500 Oh, that's me. I didn't know you could write 567 00:28:52,500 --> 00:28:54,300 that way. Yeah, and it's yeah. 568 00:28:54,400 --> 00:28:58,700 Identity to you D feel like you change after hearing that or of 569 00:28:58,700 --> 00:29:01,700 course, it opens up ago. Not that I'm going to emulate 570 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:05,700 them but feels like, okay, that has allowed me. 571 00:29:05,700 --> 00:29:07,900 Given me permission. Yeah, to do something. 572 00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:10,000 I might not have done before, right? 573 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:14,900 Right now. I'm back doing my Broadway. 574 00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:18,000 Yeah, which emerged out of a tour which I saw. 575 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:19,700 This is amazing. Yeah. 576 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:26,600 This is a kind of strange moment for me because I've committed to 577 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:31,800 doing it for many months. Yes, months or so, which I might 578 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:34,000 do that with a tour, but I already did a tour. 579 00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:37,900 And but in a way, I feel like and that's it. 580 00:29:37,900 --> 00:29:40,400 That's a physical show. It's a physical show. 581 00:29:40,400 --> 00:29:44,700 It's a, it's obviously, I mean, Commits me to staying in New 582 00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:46,700 York. Yeah, right. 583 00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:47,800 Right. That you have that. 584 00:29:49,100 --> 00:29:52,000 It's a well it's because of what it is. 585 00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,400 It's live theater, live performance. 586 00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:59,000 You have to be there for ya. You can't just send it out into 587 00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:00,200 the world. Yeah. 588 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:05,300 Physically deliver it delivered. Yeah, and but at the same time, 589 00:30:05,300 --> 00:30:12,300 I feel like it's something that It's a convergence of lots of 590 00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:16,400 paths and things I've been doing for a long time and they came 591 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,300 together and go. This is yeah, this is the 592 00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:21,900 culmination of what I've been doing for quite a while. 593 00:30:21,900 --> 00:30:24,500 Yeah, and now it's come together and being realized. 594 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,800 Yeah. I kind of need to acknowledge 595 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:31,800 that and let that rest and go and he's going with that. 596 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:36,200 Yeah, before I toss it aside and yeah, see what comes next. 597 00:30:36,200 --> 00:30:40,000 Yeah. It's I Such a remarkable 598 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:45,900 striking show and I did I did feel like that as a fan of yours 599 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:50,600 long time or to sort of the whole kind of toilet, Tharp side 600 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,400 of the experience and the theatrical side and all of your 601 00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:56,900 said, I don't have how I found it. 602 00:30:56,900 --> 00:31:01,600 Like really amazing amalgamation of a lot of strands, you know, 603 00:31:01,800 --> 00:31:05,200 but then also like I like you had to tell the audience what 604 00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:08,000 you all are doing at the shahrazad, they had to, you 605 00:31:08,000 --> 00:31:10,300 know, The this is live and work in this. 606 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:12,400 These elements are creating all this stuff. 607 00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:14,800 Even me. I was like, oh, thank God. 608 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,300 You said that because I was trippin hard on how you all were 609 00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:20,100 making those. All that's happened is really 610 00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:23,200 and and on top of that, the physicality of it all the 611 00:31:23,208 --> 00:31:27,500 choreography, like I don't know. I was so impressed that you 612 00:31:27,500 --> 00:31:30,600 think you keep you keep inventing stuff and keep like 613 00:31:30,600 --> 00:31:33,100 shifting it around and like every all the musicians. 614 00:31:33,100 --> 00:31:36,400 I know our soap they if you bring up that you saw that show, 615 00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:40,300 they all this fall over. I called the national guys. 616 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:41,600 Let's see. If I saw all these different 617 00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:46,600 people like you saw that, you know, that's really good to 618 00:31:46,608 --> 00:31:48,200 hear. Yeah, that's really nice for me 619 00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:49,100 to hear. Yeah. 620 00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:51,700 Okay. I have other questions. 621 00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:53,500 Yeah, if you don't mind, I don't know how long we're doing this 622 00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:55,700 for. I don't know and I don't this is 623 00:31:55,700 --> 00:31:57,400 just a totally selfish greedy question. 624 00:31:57,400 --> 00:31:59,400 And I don't know if you want to talk about or not. 625 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:05,700 But I love true stories. I love Spalding Gray and him and 626 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:10,300 that film and you guys together like like you him Laurie 627 00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:12,400 Anderson. The very magical people to me 628 00:32:12,500 --> 00:32:14,300 and that you guys share something to me. 629 00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:18,000 What was it like having him in the film? 630 00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:19,200 Or what was it? I don't know. 631 00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:24,100 I don't know. I need this story's about, are 632 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,300 you guys friends or like when you want another, a little bit. 633 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:28,700 Not that much. Yeah. 634 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:37,000 I knew his work and I just thought His his demeanor and the 635 00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:39,900 way he delivers and talks talks about things. 636 00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:46,900 I thought, can I get that? But have him actually be acting 637 00:32:46,900 --> 00:32:50,100 and not talking about himself and his own. 638 00:32:50,400 --> 00:32:52,900 Yeah. His own situations and thoughts 639 00:32:52,900 --> 00:32:54,600 and things. Yeah, we're not to say that 640 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:58,700 that's not acting to yeah, but yeah can have something that's a 641 00:32:58,708 --> 00:33:01,400 little more scripted and he could do was find you. 642 00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,500 It was all fine. And he was totally got it. 643 00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:06,300 Totally got it. Yeah, I mean, he comes out of 644 00:33:06,300 --> 00:33:10,900 the Wooster group where there's all this playing with the idea 645 00:33:10,900 --> 00:33:14,000 of what how performance might be. 646 00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,800 Yeah. Making it being very transparent 647 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:19,700 and layering things and putting things together that don't 648 00:33:19,700 --> 00:33:21,000 belong together. It's yeah. 649 00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,800 So he could do that and then occasionally he would improvise 650 00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:25,400 stuff which was great. Yeah. 651 00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:32,600 And some of that, who's some of what I was doing, was 652 00:33:34,700 --> 00:33:38,000 intentionally mixing people from different worlds. 653 00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:42,300 There was some non-actors. Yeah, there was some actors kind 654 00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:47,000 of from downtown theater, like, Spaulding, and some others and 655 00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,500 then it would kind of trained actor. 656 00:33:49,500 --> 00:33:50,500 Actors. Yeah. 657 00:33:50,500 --> 00:33:54,500 Like John Goodman and it's my mother's and I thought this is 658 00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,200 is this going to work. Yeah, that was super 659 00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:59,000 interesting. But I thought some of them are. 660 00:34:00,900 --> 00:34:04,900 Might not enjoy working with the other one. 661 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:09,300 Yeah. And had it had it be that was 662 00:34:09,300 --> 00:34:12,000 really inspiring, especially when it came out and I had like 663 00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:15,600 an electricity because of the heterogeneity of the Vibes of 664 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:17,800 the people and their relationship to a camera. 665 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,100 You can see, it's different feeling a different 666 00:34:20,100 --> 00:34:22,500 presentation. Yeah, and they, and then kind of 667 00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:24,699 commerciality of John Goodman vs. 668 00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:29,900 Spalding Gray like I thought that was super Punk. 669 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,300 Just the first of transgressive. I think I'm gonna in a great 670 00:34:34,300 --> 00:34:35,300 way. Yeah. 671 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:43,000 I discovered through that and through other things I've done 672 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:47,500 that you can you can take something. 673 00:34:47,500 --> 00:34:51,000 That's kind of On The Fringe or outside or whatever and then you 674 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:56,600 put it in a different context and a kind of semi mainstream 675 00:34:56,600 --> 00:34:58,300 audience loves it. Yeah. 676 00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:03,700 I just discovered that by well working with the choreographer. 677 00:35:03,700 --> 00:35:06,600 Enemy Parsons on the show. Yeah. 678 00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:10,700 I'm doing now. A lot of the audience would 679 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:15,900 never go to see her own work? Yeah, but when they're seeing my 680 00:35:15,900 --> 00:35:20,100 show they are seeing her work. Yeah, and you realize oh, yeah, 681 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,700 you just shift shift the context. 682 00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:26,000 Yeah. Or put some music to it or do 683 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,800 this or that. And yeah, suddenly these things. 684 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,100 That would be completely regarded as kind of fringy. 685 00:35:33,100 --> 00:35:36,400 Yeah, out or suddenly like oh, yeah. 686 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:37,500 Yeah, that's fine. Yeah. 687 00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:40,000 All right. Like its signature part of your 688 00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:43,000 all year of work. It's like bringing in stranger 689 00:35:43,000 --> 00:35:45,200 things, and putting them in a context. 690 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,500 That's like whatever you want to call it like, more public 691 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,300 sphere. I like more commercial is not 692 00:35:50,300 --> 00:35:53,700 the right word. But like not not ghettoize an 693 00:35:53,700 --> 00:35:55,000 art space. Uh-huh. 694 00:35:55,100 --> 00:35:57,600 Yeah. Yeah, that's sort of what, maybe 695 00:35:57,600 --> 00:36:03,800 we things you were doing early on working with musicians and 696 00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,600 things like that. Where, yeah, it brings. 697 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,300 A very different sensibility into the kind of music world. 698 00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:13,300 Yeah. Yeah. 699 00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:17,000 Yeah. Yeah, that's interesting. 700 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:19,600 I went to Cooper Union and study another Hans Hawkeyes like a 701 00:36:19,607 --> 00:36:22,400 conceptual harness and all of us like broke Julian. 702 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,300 Schnabel plates are like the in did different like low-end work 703 00:36:25,300 --> 00:36:28,900 in SoHo in the 80s and looked at Mary Boone, whatever and a bunch 704 00:36:28,900 --> 00:36:34,000 of us got disgusted or got whatever got like not disgusted 705 00:36:34,000 --> 00:36:37,400 that like a lot of the contradictions in democracies 706 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,200 are like really Especially to like 20 year old us. 707 00:36:40,300 --> 00:36:42,800 Yes. Yeah, listen areas, you know, so 708 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:46,400 our way of being revolutionary was like, go into the public 709 00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:47,500 sphere going. For me. 710 00:36:47,500 --> 00:36:51,500 It's work in a company. Go into graphic design and be 711 00:36:51,500 --> 00:36:53,400 like, you know, I thought it was so radical. 712 00:36:54,500 --> 00:36:56,500 It's really just so pretentious that you have to let go to 713 00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:57,600 Cooper. You need to think that being a 714 00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:02,600 graphic designer is radical, you know, but I think there's the 715 00:37:02,600 --> 00:37:04,400 the space that you're talking about in combining those 716 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:08,100 different elements is very alive to what we were trying to do. 717 00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:14,200 then in a similar vein, I feel like speaking of ramen company. 718 00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:18,700 Yeah, I had my recall men, did that. 719 00:37:18,700 --> 00:37:19,400 Yeah. Yeah. 720 00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:24,200 Right now that Rob in my show and I saw their book that she 721 00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:25,300 did too. Yes. 722 00:37:25,300 --> 00:37:29,200 Yeah. Book and their son, Alex, who is 723 00:37:29,200 --> 00:37:31,300 a really great designer. Yeah. 724 00:37:31,300 --> 00:37:35,800 Well, he designed a book of drawings that I did. 725 00:37:35,900 --> 00:37:40,400 Oh, yeah. It's yeah, it's yeah, that world 726 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,500 is ski a little a little world there. 727 00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:45,600 Yeah, it is. How many things? 728 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:46,900 How many projects do you work on? 729 00:37:46,900 --> 00:37:49,100 At a time? And how many different mediums 730 00:37:49,100 --> 00:37:50,400 are they? Do you need to like bounce 731 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:53,000 between lots of things or bounce? 732 00:37:53,000 --> 00:37:54,400 Yeah. Between things a bit? 733 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,600 Yeah. Well, I think this would be 734 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,500 familiar some things, you know, are going to take a long time. 735 00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,800 I try to kind of for you to think through it. 736 00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:05,000 Yeah. Try this. 737 00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:06,100 Let it sit. Yeah. 738 00:38:06,100 --> 00:38:08,400 Come back to it and see if you like it and all this, you know 739 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:09,600 that? So I know. 740 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:12,800 Okay. I can I can maybe put on On some 741 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:14,300 music and draw for a little bit. Yeah. 742 00:38:14,308 --> 00:38:21,000 Yeah, I can't go and kind of try and write music for eight hours 743 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:22,900 a day. Yeah, take two hours. 744 00:38:22,900 --> 00:38:25,900 Yeah, you're three hours. Yeah, really focused. 745 00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:27,400 I can do that. And then, yeah. 746 00:38:27,400 --> 00:38:32,900 And I have to do something else. Yeah, the challenge is not 747 00:38:32,900 --> 00:38:35,000 letting that. Something else be just answering 748 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:35,900 emails. Yes. 749 00:38:35,900 --> 00:38:38,300 Yes. Are freaking unzipping. 750 00:38:38,300 --> 00:38:42,600 Yeah, that's I can relate to that. 751 00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:45,600 A lot, although I don't draw any more. 752 00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:48,500 Really. I do graphic design very much 753 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:52,700 like on demand, you know, they do it very quickly and I love 754 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:54,800 it. But for some reason, I just I'm 755 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:58,500 out of em out of that space. Uh-huh. 756 00:38:59,000 --> 00:39:03,400 I got to have my kid or but hearing you talk right now, 757 00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:06,000 maybe. I think I'm going to try it. 758 00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:08,400 Sounded like it was great. What am I doing? 759 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,500 I have another question for you, like, so love to ask you. 760 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:15,100 You what are the difference between being a musician and 761 00:39:15,100 --> 00:39:17,700 being a director or free or obvious? 762 00:39:17,700 --> 00:39:22,500 I'm guessing you enjoyed being a musician more or like or how do 763 00:39:22,508 --> 00:39:24,300 they bleed into each other, Maybe? 764 00:39:26,500 --> 00:39:28,900 My limited experience being a director. 765 00:39:29,100 --> 00:39:33,000 I loved. It felt like you're really kind 766 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,200 of creating a whole world. Yeah. 767 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:41,100 It's Really seductive in that way. 768 00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,600 Yeah. It's very collaborative. 769 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,000 I like that. Yeah, I got mean. 770 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,900 Eyes is a musician, you kind of do that anyway, and then now 771 00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:53,900 it's like, oh now I'm collaborating with it with the 772 00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,200 DP with yeah. Sound mixer with all these other 773 00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:58,200 people. Yeah. 774 00:39:58,200 --> 00:40:00,200 Who are really good at what they did? 775 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:04,000 Yeah, it took me a while to kind of learn that graph, sine so 776 00:40:04,000 --> 00:40:06,900 solo, and then going for. So, from the get-go. 777 00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:08,800 Were you like that? Do you think? 778 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:12,700 I got in, in terms of directing life. 779 00:40:14,200 --> 00:40:20,000 Eventually, I mean I think there was a period both of my 780 00:40:20,000 --> 00:40:22,600 directing and of my kind of this this stay. 781 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,500 It might be the stage presentations. 782 00:40:25,500 --> 00:40:29,300 Like the one that was filled. That Jonathan Demi from Brad. 783 00:40:29,300 --> 00:40:30,500 Stop making sense. Yeah. 784 00:40:31,400 --> 00:40:34,400 I was a little bit more dick every little dictator. 785 00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,100 Yeah. Yeah. 786 00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:37,600 Yeah. I said it has to be this way. 787 00:40:37,700 --> 00:40:40,600 Yeah, it's my way or the highway should be like this. 788 00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:42,100 Uh-huh. It all. 789 00:40:42,100 --> 00:40:44,900 Worked out fine, but it was not It could have been a much more 790 00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:46,800 pleasant experience. Right? 791 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:55,500 And I had and I eventually learned that I can learn from 792 00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,000 these other people that I'm working with. 793 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:02,600 And also that if you as you explained working with walking 794 00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:07,200 that if you talk about what you're trying to do and they 795 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:09,600 understand it. Yeah, they're going to help you 796 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,400 do what you want to do the best. Yeah. 797 00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,400 You don't have to just order it. Yeah. 798 00:41:13,400 --> 00:41:15,100 Yeah. Yeah, are you going to get some 799 00:41:15,100 --> 00:41:17,000 more, a higher or see it? Part of weirdly? 800 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:18,800 Is he a part of yourself? He didn't see? 801 00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:24,100 Yes. Yeah, so we is true stories. 802 00:41:24,100 --> 00:41:26,100 Are you the dictatorial making that? 803 00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:30,100 Are you more? That was a, that might be me 804 00:41:30,100 --> 00:41:32,300 starting to come out of it because it had to be 805 00:41:32,300 --> 00:41:35,000 collaborative. Yeah, it's a film. 806 00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:39,400 So you've got the, the DP Ed lachman. 807 00:41:39,400 --> 00:41:44,200 And yeah, I deciders and all these people that they're Bring 808 00:41:44,200 --> 00:41:46,800 their own thing to it. And yeah, yeah, there's only so 809 00:41:46,800 --> 00:41:47,700 much. Yeah. 810 00:41:48,100 --> 00:41:51,300 I just thought I'd lock it in and Telluride, uh-huh. 811 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:54,300 Such a lovely Soul. Yeah, guys, and sees movies and 812 00:41:54,300 --> 00:41:56,900 like, comes out to me and like, we have, like, a deepest talk. 813 00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:59,700 I'm so honored that he like, takes the time to watch it and 814 00:41:59,700 --> 00:42:02,700 then so committed to the whole thing. 815 00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,300 Yeah. Just can't get, it is just 816 00:42:07,300 --> 00:42:09,100 beautiful person. Mmm. 817 00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,400 Yeah. Did you feel overwhelmed and 818 00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,600 screwed as a director? At times over. 819 00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:17,000 I mean that's so hard. That film was big too. 820 00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,500 I think that film is big and you're in it that part I didn't 821 00:42:21,500 --> 00:42:28,500 really want to be in it. Yeah, I really was pushing for 822 00:42:28,900 --> 00:42:31,600 other people. There was a really like, who 823 00:42:32,300 --> 00:42:33,700 would be you that'd be impossible. 824 00:42:37,500 --> 00:42:42,300 I wanted to for a while. I wanted this the late 825 00:42:42,300 --> 00:42:44,200 weatherman. Willard Scott. 826 00:42:44,300 --> 00:42:46,700 Oh my God to be. That's a scenario writer. 827 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:47,500 Oh my gosh. Isn't. 828 00:42:47,500 --> 00:42:50,700 Yeah, I could see it and then have wanted another idea. 829 00:42:51,900 --> 00:42:55,600 There's this radio guy. I forget what his name is and 830 00:42:55,600 --> 00:42:58,000 he's he's famous for this voice where it goes. 831 00:42:58,300 --> 00:43:05,600 And now for the rest of the story, I forget what his name 832 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,900 was. Yeah, like all over the radio. 833 00:43:07,900 --> 00:43:11,200 Yeah at that point. I thought that's the voice. 834 00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,700 Yeah. That everybody knows that voice. 835 00:43:13,700 --> 00:43:16,900 As in that peculiar weird phrase that he does. 836 00:43:16,900 --> 00:43:18,500 He see your kind of channeling that. 837 00:43:18,800 --> 00:43:19,600 Yeah. A little bit. 838 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:20,800 Yeah. Okay. 839 00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:25,000 I can I can do kind of phrasing putting pauses in odd places 840 00:43:25,100 --> 00:43:28,400 Paris, have that performances. It's not exactly you obviously. 841 00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:29,800 Yeah. I mean, it has a you quality 842 00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:33,000 that I when I say you the person I know from records and stuff 843 00:43:33,000 --> 00:43:35,300 but it is always like, oh what? It's a character. 844 00:43:35,400 --> 00:43:45,500 Yeah, a little B. Yeah, I was I was lucky had a 845 00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:49,500 Line producer women and Karen Murphy. 846 00:43:49,500 --> 00:43:53,400 Who was very protective. Yeah, can a protected me from a 847 00:43:53,408 --> 00:43:56,300 lot of the Ya-Ya stuff that was going on. 848 00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:59,700 Yeah. It was a big storm came by one 849 00:43:59,700 --> 00:44:01,600 time of destroyed, one of the sets. 850 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:07,000 And yeah, so there was all this chaos and are we actually going 851 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,100 to get this? Hmm. 852 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:09,900 I just kind of that's it. Hmm. 853 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:14,700 I was somewhat sheltered from little bit of that. 854 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:16,300 Mmm. Yeah. 855 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:21,100 Anyways, it's so I super impressed at all the different 856 00:44:21,100 --> 00:44:24,000 really heterogeneous elements that come together like on a 857 00:44:24,008 --> 00:44:28,200 real signature way and that was your first and only. 858 00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:28,900 Yeah. Yeah. 859 00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:30,700 We're that. I just done music videos. 860 00:44:30,700 --> 00:44:37,200 Yeah and sort of Learned. Not that I was going to edit 861 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,900 this but I learned a little bit of editing. 862 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,600 I think we're on editing on like three quarter inch. 863 00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:50,300 Yeah, video tapes tape the tape or a tape to tape and yeah it 864 00:44:50,300 --> 00:44:54,200 learn to edit a little bit that way and as seagrass didn't like 865 00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:56,300 the all that was I don't remember all this stuff then 866 00:44:56,300 --> 00:44:58,000 they'd go you have. Like if you're lucky. 867 00:44:58,000 --> 00:45:01,600 Yes, you know, if you were lucky you could go into online room 868 00:45:01,600 --> 00:45:02,700 and online room. Yeah. 869 00:45:02,700 --> 00:45:05,800 She's one inch video. Yeah. 870 00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:08,500 That was yeah. Oh, yeah. 871 00:45:08,900 --> 00:45:11,500 When I worked at a company, I would guy got exposed to that 872 00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,300 little I don't think it was one of your guys is projects 873 00:45:14,300 --> 00:45:18,100 together, but it was T bodies to do and those Grass Valley. 874 00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:19,900 That's what this machine was called, Grass Valley. 875 00:45:20,000 --> 00:45:21,800 Uh-huh. And I had these levers, like, 876 00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:25,400 when you imagine an airplane taking off and you do dissolves 877 00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:27,200 and stuff like that is very manual. 878 00:45:27,200 --> 00:45:30,000 Yeah. We just made ourselves ancient 879 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,200 too many people. Mmm kind of cast one last 880 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:34,800 question it just if you want. Sure. 881 00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,700 And just as a human, I'm curious. 882 00:45:37,700 --> 00:45:40,800 What do you know what you're doing next or like how far down 883 00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,900 the road do you? Think, do you have a new 884 00:45:44,900 --> 00:45:48,600 project? You're hoping for I have. 885 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:58,000 Project next summer kind of an immersive Science Theater. 886 00:45:58,100 --> 00:46:02,800 Wow thing, which bunch of rooms and an audience or small 887 00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:06,000 audiences LED from room to room and as they go into one another 888 00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:07,200 audience has led in the first one. 889 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:09,700 So that's supposed to be the way we get the numbers. 890 00:46:09,900 --> 00:46:12,900 Yeah. High enough to justify it and 891 00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:18,800 they have kind of a kind of perception, altering experiences 892 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:24,500 and then challenges to The guide be a character who totally gets 893 00:46:25,300 --> 00:46:27,700 gets you involved in a kind of an emotional story. 894 00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:31,000 Yeah, that takes you through it. Instead of it just being like a 895 00:46:31,008 --> 00:46:34,500 fun house. Yeah, so that's, that's a 896 00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:37,400 challenge. We think we've gotten pretty 897 00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:39,800 close to being that because you never know until you start 898 00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,400 trying it with an audience. Yeah. 899 00:46:41,700 --> 00:46:44,200 To see what their reactions are in if they get engaged in that 900 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,100 so that it made and that's in Denver that will be in Denver. 901 00:46:48,200 --> 00:46:52,000 Yeah, they found an old kind of army Warehouse that, huh? 902 00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,500 I mean yet the yet another like from the ground up project. 903 00:46:56,500 --> 00:46:58,600 That's like yeah, I don't think you've ever done anything like 904 00:46:58,600 --> 00:46:59,200 that. That sounds. 905 00:46:59,200 --> 00:47:03,700 So why don't you and yeah, but as with those kind of projects, 906 00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:09,100 I did a workshop of yeah years ago and it's I don't know. 907 00:47:09,100 --> 00:47:10,400 Eight years or so. Okay. 908 00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:13,100 So tomorrow's your grows and you can't go. 909 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:16,100 No, that doesn't work. Yeah, that's part Works alcohol. 910 00:47:17,900 --> 00:47:19,500 Well, maybe we should. Okay. 911 00:47:19,500 --> 00:47:22,900 I can do this all day long. Not for me. 912 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:25,900 Thank you so much for. Thank you. 913 00:47:25,900 --> 00:47:27,600 Thank you for inviting me. Gracie. 914 00:47:27,600 --> 00:47:31,000 You quit. We didn't have a chance to talk 915 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:32,600 after the movie or anything like that. 916 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,400 Yeah, screening. So this was really, this good 917 00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:36,700 was kind of better, right? Yeah. 918 00:47:36,700 --> 00:47:38,500 Yeah, very sweet. Yeah, right. 919 00:47:43,100 --> 00:47:46,400 Thanks for listening. The a24 podcast is produced by 920 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:50,500 us a 24 special. Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt 921 00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:52,600 and robot repair who composed star theme.