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Hey and welcome back to the a 24
Hour podcast. 

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Our Guest today. 
Met working on HBO's, I mean 

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winning hit series succession 
while a 24-hour has nothing to 

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do with succession, aside from 
being massive fans. 

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We do know and love composer. 
Nicholas brutal an actor. 

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Nicolas Braun brutal compose, 
the oscar-nominated score for 

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moonlight and bronze stars in 
our upcoming film Zola. 

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We recently set them up on Zoom,
where they caught up and talked 

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about getting out of their own 
heads, finding a creative 

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Rhythm, and of course 
succession. 

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So, I guess we'll just start. 
My name is Nicholas Braun and 

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I'm Nicholas Patel. 
And we are here with the a24 

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podcast via Zoom during 
pandemic. 

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I can't believe this is actually
happening. 

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We've they've been, you know, 
the technical setup has been 

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extraordinary to make this 
possible. 

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We've you know, this is some 
Hi-Fi kind of apparatus that 

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we've put together for this and 
yeah, it's rounded by what tires

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literally surrounded by wires 
because like telephone wires and

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eats Nets. 
And there's like so much. 

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I like what you did before, 
where you open the door. 

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Yeah, it was feeling a little 
choppy. 

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Know the Wi-Fi airflow. 
Yep. 

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And I think it just wanted to 
get in here and I want to let it

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in and it and and you did and 
and now the Wi-Fi is flourishing

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it feels flourishing. 
Where are you? 

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Just so because so everyone 
knows but actually where I don't

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know where you are. 
I'm in New York, I live in Lower

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East Side. 
So I'm at my place I was staying

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in La for most of quarantine I 
was at a couple different 

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friends, houses and living in 
guest bedrooms and back houses 

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and But it feels good to finally
be back in my bed in my home and

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you're I missed the worst of it 
here, it feels like but in the 

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last three weeks since I got 
back, New York is kind of like 

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re burgeoning and you know, 
there you have this to do, 

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starting to get a pulse again, 
and for sure. 

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Know people are sitting somewhat
near each other at a rest, you 

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know, outdoor restaurants and 
stuff. 

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And I feel good to be a New 
Yorker in a way, still in like 

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get some of this crazy, you 
know, time. 

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Absolutely. 
I mean, actually, it's only 

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because I'm sort of the Like the
mirror image of that because we 

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were Caitlin and I were in 
Manhattan for the whole period 

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from basically early March until
a week ago. 

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And you know, I I you know me, I
mean, I love being in my, I like

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being inside, I'm really like a 
very indoors creature. 

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I like sudden I don't go outside
almost ever but this whole 

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period of time has made me 
appreciate the outdoors in Like 

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in a whole new dimension, you 
know, and basically because we 

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were so inside. 
I mean I would say I probably 

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went out of the building like 
five times over the four months,

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you know, I was really inside 
that much and so we rented a 

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place on Long Island just to 
kind of like get some air and 

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you know, walk around some 
trees, Etc. 

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So so I'm out on Long Island 
right now. 

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Yeah. 
How does it feel to be away from

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the city and be in not in your 
main? 

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Dwelling. 
And like you because you said 

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you built a home studio there, 
so yeah. 

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Yeah. 
Process different is it? 

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Yeah, it's interesting because 
like I've I've gotten used to 

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over the past like you know ten 
years over the past ten years, 

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I've been sort of making the the
regular pilgrimage out to Los 

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Angeles. 
You know. 

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And we've talked about it a bit 
like I love you know whenever 

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I'm working with people, I love 
working in really close 

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proximity. 
Like really you know I feel it's

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so important to work with 
collaborations like in the same 

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room and too. 
They're together. 

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So I've gotten you still like 
moving equipment, you know, I 

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always carry like this huge 
backpack and gear and stuff all 

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the time. 
But but, you know, being sort of

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during this period of time, it's
so hard to kind of just 

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logistically, do a lot of stuff.
So I basically had to, like, set

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up this whole studio drive, all 
the equipment out and it took it

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took a little while. 
I'm not going to last a little 

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while to get everything 
together, but I'm pretty set up 

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now. 
Like I have a big big Screen. 

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Because I always feel like 
whenever you're working on a 

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film or TV, I always feel like 
you actually need a big screen 

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to work with. 
I've found over the years that's

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a whole other conversation but I
found all the years that like 

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when you work with a smaller 
screen you actually like do 

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different stuff in a bizarre 
sort of psychological way which 

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is sort of like you're not 
you're not surrounded by the 

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image in the same way as like a 
bigger screen. 

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Exact does it's not like as 
impactful? 

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Yeah, exactly. 
Like I remember years ago, I 

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would work like I have like a 
lot of different monitors. 

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I use when I'm writing stuff and
usually, I have sort of a main 

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like a 32 inch screen, computer 
screen in front of me. 

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And then I used to just have 
like a 20-something inch screen 

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to my right. 
And I used to put the picture 

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over there, you know? 
So I'd have like, kind of my 

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session in front of me and then 
I'd have the movie on the right 

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and there was something about it
where I was like, I don't know, 

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I just had an inkling that that 
wasn't optimal and I remember 

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getting a much bigger screen 
Green like a 50 inch screen and 

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putting it up in front of me, 
like, above the other screen and

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immediately, I felt like a new 
door opened up. 

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It's like exactly like you said,
it's like you need an immersion 

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in whatever you're doing in. 
Whatever. 

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Does that for you? 
You need to do that. 

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Basically and yeah, like it 
shouldn't be in your peripheral 

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vision sort of Glee exactly. 
Like it should be the thing 

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that's like. 
Yeah, exactly. 

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And I bet the met, I think the 
metaphor works for like, 

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everything. 
Like, that's just, I mean, That 

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may be very specific to, like, 
what writing music for film, 

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but, but I feel like I wonder 
for you, like, I mean, thinking 

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about ways of immersing in a 
performance, for example, you 

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know, the I mean, there's always
different like, you know, 

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techniques or thought like do 
you. 

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I'm actually just curious like a
for performing. 

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Like, do you think about that to
do you think about like before 

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you're going to do a scene, for 
example are the things that you 

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do to kind of immerse yourself 
psychologically or yeah. 

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Yeah. 
I think I grow these little 

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compulsive things for each role 
almost like, you know, like 

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Nadal has like ticks he does 
before every serve like, oh 

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yeah, right. 
Right. 

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You just sort of, yeah, you 
know, like he's touching his 

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forearms and sweat and pulling 
his hair and stuff. 

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I feel like I grow these things 
for the individual role that 

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I'm, like, I grow my nails out 
or that I have dirt under my 

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nails or that I don't sleep as 
much, or that I eat more. 

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Eat less, or I said, they're in 
character. 

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Like, like, are you Because you 
think like oh the character 

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would have liked the dirt under 
the nails, for example, kind of 

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thing or or is it more random? 
It's more kind of just like a, 

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like a noise, it's definitely 
character. 

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It's not my character based. 
It's like, it's, you know, I 

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don't there's no perfect way to 
create like an energy or a 

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frequency for your character, 
but I'm like if I don't shower 

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or if I, you know, don't talk to
people the day before or if I'm 

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super social, whatever the 
character is or whatever. 

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I think the frequency that I 
should be on, for the next day 

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is sure, sure. 
Sure, I try to kind of cultivate

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that and you know you can't like
stop life from happening in 

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certain things from happening. 
Or you can't like not talk to 

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your family for three months 
because your character doesn't 

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talk to their family, you know. 
Like I don't go that far with 

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it, but right. 
But I do try to find things 

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that, you know, it's like I 
would prefer to grow my hair out

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for something that requires it 
as opposed to wear a wig, you 

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know, grow them for the real 
facial hair or right. 

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You know, make my make my body, 
really feel like the way that 

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that character's body feels like
because you kind of can't. 

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Like the voice of somebody is 
not altered by just like 

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changing it to seconds before. 
It's like you have to sort of 

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live in the body and live in the
clothes in the posture and all 

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those things. 
Kind of contribute to the thing 

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that shows up on screen that, 
you know, or is just the energy,

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you bring into a scene with 
somebody like an actor is going 

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to feel feel me differently. 
It's fun because you kind of get

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to rewire yourself for a short 
period of time and just be this 

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that's the first thing, you know
and my characters. 

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Smoke cigs, all of a sudden, I'm
smoking some cigs like right 

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right. 
You know, and I'm like doing 

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this thing and and it helps my 
voice because it dries my voice 

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out or more, you know, we're 
makes me feel a little bit sick.

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Oh, I got a sinus infection from
smoking cigarettes. 

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Well, my character, maybe, I 
don't know. 

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It's like changes you. 
It changes you basically. 

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Yeah. 
It changes you. 

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Yeah. 
So I, it's not, there's not a 

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huge method to it. 
Like I don't, I wouldn't call 

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myself like method actor. 
Any of that? 

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I just like, I like the idea of 
trying Figure out what is the 

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way that this person feels all 
the time and can I get as close 

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to that as possible while also 
not like you know being an 

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impossible person in my life to 
be around for writing. 

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So it's like a balancing act 
where you're right exact like 

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for I'm sure for Windows of 
time. 

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That can be really fun, you 
know? 

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It's like almost like a little 
bit of an escape from yourself 

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in a sense and then other times 
and then you're sort of like 

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also, you have to live your life
though. 

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It's exactly that It's a little 
fun, escape and, and doing the 

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research is fun to like, I don't
know why, this just popped into 

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my head but I went I went to a I
was going to play a juggalo 

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character. 
Do you know what a juggalo is a 

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juggalo. 
You have you heard of Juggalos 

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before? 
And every tell me more Juggalo 

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is a fan of this rap group 
called Insane. 

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Clown Posse? 
Oh, okay. 

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Yeah. 
Pika. 

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You know, they paint their face 
with us with clown makeup and 

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stuff and Mike You're on the 
page, was, was hey, hung with a 

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lot of Juggalos. 
So I thought, well, maybe 

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they're a juggalo and I should 
investigate this, so I properly 

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represent the Juggalo culture to
be punished to be more closer to

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it. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

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To be closer to like what, you 
know, what are those people 

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like? 
And what do they feel like? 

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And you know, what is the actual
Juggalo hairstyle? 

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And what, you know, what's their
Vibe and and wardrobe and stuff?

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And I got the part the movie An 
end up happening, okay, by the 

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way but I got the part and then 
a week later was the Gathering 

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of the Juggalos which is a 
yearly Music Festival, where all

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these sort of Insane Clown Posse
Branch off groups like inspired 

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by ICP underperform. 
Anyway it's a it's a kind of 

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crazy event and people camp 
there for a week and so I I 

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could get there on the last 
night of the festival and I flew

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to Oklahoma City and there's and
I brought a tent and I Added to 

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just like being character and I 
got a grill for my mouth and I 

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did my hair kind of weird and I 
like credible first thing I did 

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when I got there as I like I 
bought an ICP t-shirt, you know,

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they're just like I'm doing 
John, I'm doing this. 

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I'm doing it. 
And my brother, my little 

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brother flew out from San 
Francisco. 

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I flew from La. 
We both like met up in Oklahoma 

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City and camped out at the 
Gathering of the Juggalos for a 

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night and that kind of stuff is 
so fun tonight. 

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Yeah, like to be able to do 
that. 

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Have an excuse, like, have an 
existence. 

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This is for Work. 
You know. 

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Right really right? 
It's also just a Fascination and

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to get to be around a group of 
people that I'm normally really 

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not exposed to and like being a 
mosh pit and like the big finale

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of their Festival is Insane 
Clown Posse, which is a Duo this

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rap Duo. 
Yeah. 

223
00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:39,300
They bring out cases and cases 
of two liter Faygo which is 

224
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:43,300
this, their soda brand that they
created and they pour it all 

225
00:11:43,300 --> 00:11:46,200
over everybody like a baptism. 
Oh my God, the end of the 

226
00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:50,000
festival. 
And as People who did this and 

227
00:11:50,000 --> 00:11:53,200
you got poured on, you got 
poured on, oh, fully fully 

228
00:11:54,300 --> 00:11:56,900
doused in root beer and orange 
soda. 

229
00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,600
I always sort of talk about how 
like every project is different 

230
00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:04,600
fascinating assignment where 
it's like, oh, you know, we need

231
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,400
to explore this whole world and 
then you get to say to yourself.

232
00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:10,200
Okay, well, what, what do we do 
with that? 

233
00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:12,700
Well, you know what, like from 
my perspective like okay, what 

234
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:17,000
music works with this because 
there's always the sort of first

235
00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,000
layer like the first idea. 
You see something and then you 

236
00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:22,700
can think, okay? 
Well, this is the direct answer 

237
00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,600
to that or this is the 
reflection of that but often I 

238
00:12:25,600 --> 00:12:28,600
feel it's not the first or it's 
almost never the first thing. 

239
00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:32,400
That's right for something, it's
usually some sort of the second 

240
00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:35,300
idea or the third idea. 
And actually, it's funny like 

241
00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:37,200
have you ever talked to McKay 
about this? 

242
00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:41,000
Because he would, he would talk 
about how he put this really 

243
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,400
well a few years ago, to me, 
where he studied with Del close 

244
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,900
in Chicago for improper. 
Yeah. 

245
00:12:47,900 --> 00:12:50,800
Right. 
And He I remember him telling me

246
00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:53,600
I'm pretty sure. 
I don't wanna get the mistake 

247
00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,700
this but he was saying 
basically, how Dell would always

248
00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:59,000
talk about how it was. 
Like the third idea was the one 

249
00:12:59,000 --> 00:13:02,200
that you like when you're doing 
improv that your first idea is 

250
00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,100
sort of like not the right idea.
Then your second idea is sort of

251
00:13:06,200 --> 00:13:09,300
kind of it's maybe better but 
it's a still related to the 

252
00:13:09,300 --> 00:13:12,800
first idea. 
So it's not it's not the idea 

253
00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,300
but the third idea that that's 
the idea that's the one you go 

254
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:20,300
with because it's just It's like
you've learned from the first 

255
00:13:20,300 --> 00:13:24,400
two ideas, but the third one is 
like the knuth, the new thing. 

256
00:13:24,700 --> 00:13:27,600
And then I think he was telling 
me that like the fourth ideas 

257
00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:30,900
like, to too far. 
That's like that's like you're 

258
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:33,800
in your own head and everything,
and he was saying, which I found

259
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:40,600
fascinating, the idea that that 
really amazing improv is about 

260
00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:43,700
so quickly getting to the third 
idea. 

261
00:13:43,800 --> 00:13:46,700
So it's like, in your head. 
You get to the 30-day almost 

262
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:48,800
like, right now like you, you 
cycle through the idea. 

263
00:13:49,000 --> 00:13:50,600
So quickly and then you're 
already at the third idea. 

264
00:13:50,600 --> 00:13:53,200
So it seems like you're 
immediately having this 

265
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,200
response, but it's a trained 
kind of like going through ideas

266
00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,000
very quickly. 
And and I think about that after

267
00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:01,100
he said, it's a mean, I think 
about that. 

268
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:04,000
Like, almost all the time now, 
it's just gonna be in my head 

269
00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:08,200
every time, you know, it's like 
with the third idea, But I think

270
00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,400
that that makes a lot of sense. 
You know, the first one is basic

271
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,700
essentially and then the second 
one is you're trying to beat the

272
00:14:14,700 --> 00:14:15,500
basic. 
Yep. 

273
00:14:15,500 --> 00:14:18,400
And so that. 
Yep, third is an original idea 

274
00:14:18,500 --> 00:14:19,800
in the context of what you're 
doing. 

275
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:21,200
Exactly. 
It's exactly. 

276
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,500
It's like the it's like the new,
the new discovery, still 

277
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:27,100
connected, but halves has 
evolved. 

278
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:29,000
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

279
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:33,300
Well that's that's really cool. 
So so when you're when you're 

280
00:14:33,300 --> 00:14:36,900
coming up with stuff like lets 
you know, let's talk about that,

281
00:14:37,000 --> 00:14:38,300
you'll get it. 
First instinct towards 

282
00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:41,600
something. 
You do you do say like don't 

283
00:14:41,600 --> 00:14:44,400
trust that or sometimes is that 
right? 

284
00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:46,400
And you're like, it's actually 
pretty close. 

285
00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:50,600
I just needed to tweak a thing 
or reoriented or something 

286
00:14:50,700 --> 00:14:54,600
because so much about music. 
I feel like is Instinct and it's

287
00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:59,500
just it just comes out so 
expressive and it's what your 

288
00:14:59,500 --> 00:15:01,700
ear hears, right? 
Like you hear Melodies and you 

289
00:15:01,700 --> 00:15:06,100
hear instrumentation and you 
hear, you feel it innately. 

290
00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:10,200
So then, You have to put on the 
academic brain sometimes and be 

291
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:13,200
like that is good. 
But there is a deeper better 

292
00:15:13,200 --> 00:15:14,800
version. 
That's a great question. 

293
00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,600
I think that I think it's all 
related to this stuff where part

294
00:15:18,600 --> 00:15:22,200
of it is hopefully over time. 
You know, we're learning and 

295
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,200
we're maybe we're honing our 
instincts so that you know, more

296
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,300
maybe more quickly. 
You start having a learned since

297
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:32,100
of, I know I could do that but 
I'm not going to do that, you 

298
00:15:32,108 --> 00:15:32,600
know. 
Maybe. 

299
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,900
Because you're like I I know 
that'll work, but maybe that's 

300
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,100
not interesting, you know? 
Or maybe I've already done that 

301
00:15:37,100 --> 00:15:40,800
I don't want. 
That, you know, but I also think

302
00:15:41,300 --> 00:15:45,300
the, the crazy thing I think 
about film music is and 

303
00:15:45,300 --> 00:15:50,500
fulfillment TV music as a sort 
of entirety, is that like, you 

304
00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:53,200
can write all sorts of music, 
you know, you can come up with 

305
00:15:53,200 --> 00:15:57,200
ideas away from the picture 
because in a bizarre way, I 

306
00:15:57,208 --> 00:16:00,000
guess I'm saying is like, 
writing music for a picture is 

307
00:16:00,000 --> 00:16:04,500
both writing music and working 
being a filmmaker, you know. 

308
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:08,800
So the music on its own Could be
really interesting, you know, 

309
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,700
you know, there could be 
something really cool to you. 

310
00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:12,400
Like, we're like the I'm proud 
of this. 

311
00:16:12,400 --> 00:16:15,600
I think it's beautiful and then 
when you put it up against the 

312
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,100
picture, it's totally wrong. 
And so there's this kind of like

313
00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:25,700
dual layer where you're writing 
music and you're also testing it

314
00:16:25,700 --> 00:16:27,400
out. 
Kind of is the way I would put 

315
00:16:27,400 --> 00:16:29,600
it where you doing. 
I always talk about it as like 

316
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,200
you're doing experiments where 
you actually it is. 

317
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,600
Maybe almost like a scientist. 
We have like a theory, you have 

318
00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:38,200
your best theories But 
ultimately Until you do the 

319
00:16:38,200 --> 00:16:42,100
experiment which is putting it 
against the movie or the screen,

320
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,700
you have no idea. 
And sometimes you're like, wow, 

321
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,400
this really works. 
And then other times you're 

322
00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:52,700
like, wow, that is so wrong. 
But now that I see that it's 

323
00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:56,800
wrong, it's telling me something
about what could be right? 

324
00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:00,100
Yeah. 
How do you know, I guess how 

325
00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:04,099
much experimenting is there? 
Is there always a phase of? 

326
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:07,900
Okay, here's my first instinct 
without picture and This is what

327
00:17:07,900 --> 00:17:11,099
my gut tells me based on the 
script based on this director 

328
00:17:11,099 --> 00:17:13,900
and what they've told me like 
this is the sort of thing I 

329
00:17:13,900 --> 00:17:16,400
think is the foundation. 
And then is there always that 

330
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,800
face before you see frames of a 
movie? 

331
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:22,000
I think I always think yeah. 
Like even even if I just hear 

332
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:26,000
about a project, I think I just 
love playing around with this 

333
00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:28,600
stuff, you know. 
So like, even even if I'm not 

334
00:17:28,600 --> 00:17:30,800
working on a project or a here 
about a project. 

335
00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,800
I think I naturally start going.
I wonder would work with, you 

336
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,200
know. 
And, and so I think like, like, 

337
00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,200
for example, in succession I You
know, I first heard about it I 

338
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,800
think I mean it might have been 
even while we were still doing 

339
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:45,000
the big short. 
I remember, you know, I came to 

340
00:17:45,000 --> 00:17:50,200
set Jeremy and Brian are having 
that uniting room want to hit 

341
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:51,800
me. 
Yeah, exactly yes. 

342
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:53,700
Yes. 
Yeah, but that was that went 

343
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:56,500
that was sort of like for me. 
That was incredible because I 

344
00:17:56,500 --> 00:18:00,500
got to let you know like you're 
talking about me immerse it you 

345
00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:04,800
know and and and you know just 
feeling the feeling the tension 

346
00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:09,200
in the room with that happening.
It, although it's, it is 

347
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,200
intangible and it's all. 
But I really believe that all 

348
00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,800
this stuff affects you. 
Subconsciously in a lot of ways 

349
00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,900
and almost like a almost, like, 
a mystical way. 

350
00:18:17,900 --> 00:18:21,500
Like, if you, if you're around 
this stuff and you feel it, it's

351
00:18:21,500 --> 00:18:24,700
going to affect you and you're 
going to bring that into your 

352
00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,000
work somehow, you know? 
Yeah. 

353
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,000
I mean, it's been interesting 
and great having you at table 

354
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,500
reads. 
I love to go. 

355
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,300
That's, that's been so much fun 
for me. 

356
00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:36,700
I think you started in second 
season, right? 

357
00:18:36,700 --> 00:18:39,800
Like you were there at the I 
came it was second season, I 

358
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,800
think, or did I might have come 
to one in the first season but 

359
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:46,700
definitely second season for 
sure. 

360
00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,000
Yeah, and I went to the writers 
room to actually, I went to the 

361
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:53,400
writers room when they were 
writing season 2 as well. 

362
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,700
In London, actually. 
I mean, I think it makes a lot 

363
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:57,500
of sense. 
Like you're trying to sort of 

364
00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:01,000
get what is, what are the 
rhythms and what are the colors 

365
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:02,600
of the season? 
And how is it changing? 

366
00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,500
And exactly. 
Exactly. 

367
00:19:04,500 --> 00:19:06,500
Yeah. 
And actually, how did you? 

368
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,500
I'm just curious like, how did 
Did you first like when did you 

369
00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,100
first learn about succession? 
Like, what was that process? 

370
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:15,600
How did you hear about it? 
It was sent to me, kind of, like

371
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:17,800
most auditions. 
Get sent to you. 

372
00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:20,300
You get, you know, the script 
and you get some of the, some of

373
00:19:20,308 --> 00:19:24,600
the sides. 
I got a few Greg scenes and, you

374
00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,400
know, it said, I'm going to meet
Adam McKay and and I'd never 

375
00:19:28,400 --> 00:19:32,900
never met Adam, but I like long 
revered, him and fast. 

376
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:35,900
Yeah, you know. 
So I was like, this is crazy. 

377
00:19:35,900 --> 00:19:39,700
This is great. 
I need a demo Totally and and I 

378
00:19:39,700 --> 00:19:42,700
kind of understood Greg. 
I think I don't know if I 

379
00:19:42,708 --> 00:19:45,400
understood where he fit 
actually. 

380
00:19:45,400 --> 00:19:48,400
I think I understood like he is 
an oddball in this world. 

381
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:50,700
You know, his energy is 
different. 

382
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:55,000
The, The Stumbling nature of him
and awkwardness and the sort of 

383
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:59,600
forced forced ambition of it. 
All is like, very clear to me. 

384
00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,800
I was like, okay, I'm just going
to give give it a shot and Adam 

385
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,100
like my read and he did a bunch 
of like improv sort of things 

386
00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:09,000
with me in the room there. 
These sort of open-ended 

387
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:13,000
scenarios that he gave Greg. 
What we're like, What were the? 

388
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,200
I'm curious? 
What sir do you remember though 

389
00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:17,700
or I do? 
Yeah. 

390
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:22,700
So there's the scene in the 
pilot where Greg is in this 

391
00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:26,000
training room and he's really 
high, you know, he smokes a 

392
00:20:26,008 --> 00:20:31,100
little young, but yeah, and then
and then he's sitting in the 

393
00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:37,700
room and he's in like 80% of his
dog costume and the, the Asian 

394
00:20:37,700 --> 00:20:41,200
person is giving the kind of 
corporate seminar in like all 

395
00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:44,300
the guidelines and he just, he 
was like, let's just keep the 

396
00:20:44,300 --> 00:20:47,400
scene going. 
What if there's a gunman on, you

397
00:20:47,408 --> 00:20:50,800
know, at the amusement park, 
what would you do in that 

398
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,300
scenario, right? 
And as Greg just I just started 

399
00:20:54,300 --> 00:20:57,900
answering these questions and 
and you know, he gave me like 10

400
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:02,700
scenarios and it just sort of. 
I mean, for me it was great to 

401
00:21:03,000 --> 00:21:04,900
like like I was saying earlier, 
like it's great to get into the 

402
00:21:04,900 --> 00:21:06,800
pathology of somebody total 
with. 

403
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:10,600
If so how do you, how does your 
mind riot in this character? 

404
00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:13,700
Answer a question, right? 
Not the way I'm going to answer 

405
00:21:13,700 --> 00:21:16,200
it. 
So I have to redirect and go. 

406
00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,200
Oh, yeah, Greg. 
So Greg Briggs fearful. 

407
00:21:18,200 --> 00:21:21,100
He's he wants to say the right 
thing, but he has no 

408
00:21:21,100 --> 00:21:23,000
understanding of corporate like 
culture. 

409
00:21:23,300 --> 00:21:31,000
So Frisk him, should I say I 
could first, you know, or 

410
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:34,300
escort. 
Mmm, get on the ground. 

411
00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:36,300
You know, I mean, I don't know 
what I actually said, but I 

412
00:21:36,308 --> 00:21:38,500
think yeah, yeah, it was They 
find it understand. 

413
00:21:38,500 --> 00:21:41,800
Okay, how, where is he? 
And at that point in the show, 

414
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:45,500
he's like, so squirrelly and 
weird, and right, right. 

415
00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:46,800
And we're, and you were supposed
to do. 

416
00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:48,700
What am I in that scene to 
write? 

417
00:21:48,700 --> 00:21:50,000
Like, you're supposed I'm hoti 
Hai. 

418
00:21:50,000 --> 00:21:52,500
Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly, yeah.
So he's yeah. 

419
00:21:52,700 --> 00:21:56,100
He's all of the above. 
I can't even really understand 

420
00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:57,400
the questions that. 
Well. 

421
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,200
Exactly. 
You know just wants to get out 

422
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:03,900
there and put the costume on and
just get through the day just 

423
00:22:03,900 --> 00:22:04,900
get through. 
Yeah. 

424
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:06,100
Deep. 
You know, one thing actually 

425
00:22:06,100 --> 00:22:08,500
it's funny when you, when you 
said Ed, you know, Frisk or 

426
00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:12,400
escort. 
Yeah, I feel that Greg has such 

427
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,700
a fascinating kind of affinity 
for Words. 

428
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:20,800
Actually, you know, and language
like that really comes out in 

429
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:24,200
the Congressional hearings in 
season two, you know, where 

430
00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:29,100
you're sort of inhabiting that 
that that Universe of like the 

431
00:22:29,100 --> 00:22:33,000
the like almost like Court 
procedure words, you know, where

432
00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,600
you're sort of like, if it is to
be said, you know? 

433
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:41,000
So so it So it is so it seems. 
So I is that how much of that is

434
00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,500
like you like us? 
Because it sounds like you you 

435
00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:47,800
now fully know how to inhabit 
Greg. 

436
00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,400
And is that was that in the was 
a lot of that in the writing 

437
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,500
like had. 
They thought that Greg would 

438
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:55,900
talk this way or is that 
something to that you've sort of

439
00:22:55,900 --> 00:22:59,200
like brought into things? 
You know I'm cute. 

440
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,000
I'm pretty sure it was in the 
writing. 

441
00:23:01,100 --> 00:23:03,700
Wow, that's awesome. 
Pretty sure it's there because 

442
00:23:04,100 --> 00:23:08,100
in the pilot I remember there's 
this scene Did stay in the pilot

443
00:23:08,100 --> 00:23:11,900
where I'm sitting with Brian in 
between Bryan and he I'm in the 

444
00:23:11,900 --> 00:23:15,800
car and I'm saying, you know, if
there's if there's a way for me 

445
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,200
to scratch your back and write 
your out when you scratch mine 

446
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,800
or not might you know yeah 
something and I used the word 

447
00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:26,100
perspicacious and they sang. 
Yeah that's the word I use and 

448
00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,700
so I'm like you know it's tells 
you a lot about the way Jesse 

449
00:23:29,700 --> 00:23:35,300
sees Greg totally is that he is 
scrambling in his thoughts and 

450
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:39,600
appears maybe Dawn. 
But has this vocabulary weirdly 

451
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,300
right, right? 
Or MIT? 

452
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:44,500
Or maybe he just like, thinks 
around Rich, smart people. 

453
00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:48,700
He's supposed to use the big 
words, he knows, but he's trying

454
00:23:48,700 --> 00:23:50,400
to. 
It's like it's the code. 

455
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,600
He's trying to fit in as if 
like, and the irony being that 

456
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:58,700
the last thing in the world, 
that that Logan is whatever uses

457
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:01,400
a word like that, you know, he's
like, like when they're quoting,

458
00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:04,300
you know, Shakespeare to him. 
He's just like, you know, fuck 

459
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,200
off, total. 
Keep it as simple as possible. 

460
00:24:07,300 --> 00:24:09,700
It'll just say what you want. 
Exactly like, why are we here? 

461
00:24:09,700 --> 00:24:12,600
Yeah, but it's interesting too 
because it feels like you. 

462
00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:16,100
I mean, you know obviously I've 
been I've been working on 

463
00:24:16,100 --> 00:24:20,700
succession but I'm a fan of all 
of your work and and I feel like

464
00:24:20,700 --> 00:24:25,100
the you know all the characters,
all the actors are inhabiting in

465
00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:29,700
such a deep way and it you know,
so like you were saying before 

466
00:24:29,700 --> 00:24:32,500
when you're talking about 
preparation and immersion, do 

467
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:33,900
you find yourself even are 
there. 

468
00:24:33,900 --> 00:24:37,200
Certain obviously Greg has a 
sort of physicality. 

469
00:24:37,400 --> 00:24:40,500
In his way to, like do you now, 
sort of naturally? 

470
00:24:40,500 --> 00:24:43,300
Kind of, like, if I were to say 
to you, you know? 

471
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:45,900
Like, okay, you're you're Greg 
the egg right now, you know, do 

472
00:24:45,900 --> 00:24:49,400
you know, do you naturally sort 
of does your body feel that 

473
00:24:49,400 --> 00:24:50,900
really? 
I'm just curious like how, you 

474
00:24:50,908 --> 00:24:53,100
know, or would it take you time?
Like you're saying does is it 

475
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,500
sort of like, give me two hours 
and I'll be Greg kind of a 

476
00:24:56,500 --> 00:25:00,100
thing, you know. 
I think that's it, would be in 

477
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:04,100
the wardrobe and putting on a 
Greg style suit or outfit. 

478
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:05,900
Okay. 
And then it would be, yeah, the 

479
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:08,300
posture kind of changes. 
And I think the voice changes a 

480
00:25:08,308 --> 00:25:11,100
little bit and then there's just
an energy that kind of takes up.

481
00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,800
That's all like a little bit 
more hyper aware of the room key

482
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:16,100
players in it. 
Right? 

483
00:25:16,100 --> 00:25:19,500
That's a good point actually. 
It's very Greg's, very sensitive

484
00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:20,800
to the room. 
Right? 

485
00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,500
But also like one of the things 
I love about Greg to is 

486
00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,600
sensitive to the room but also 
like oddly self-centered as 

487
00:25:27,600 --> 00:25:30,700
well, you know like the way like
I still remember that moment 

488
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:36,700
where you say like it's Gregory 
You know, like, in the midst of 

489
00:25:36,700 --> 00:25:40,600
this, you know, like lion's den 
you're still like, well, 

490
00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:42,000
actually, please call me 
Gregory. 

491
00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:45,600
Yeah. 
Demanding something exactly for 

492
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:47,900
his identity of a person, for 
some respect for symmetry. 

493
00:25:47,900 --> 00:25:49,400
Exactly. 
Exactly. 

494
00:25:49,900 --> 00:25:52,300
Yeah, I know, I think that, I 
think that's totally the 

495
00:25:52,300 --> 00:25:53,800
balance. 
He's like, I got to do the right

496
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,000
thing. 
Got to do the right thing, but I

497
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,700
also got a really do what I want
to do right now. 

498
00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,400
Ryan, go for what I want. 
Exactly, which is remarkable 

499
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:05,400
because it's such a, you know, 
in that, Environment. 

500
00:26:05,400 --> 00:26:08,300
There's there's also the fact 
that Greg does have these 

501
00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:12,200
Ambitions, you know, and is 
actually incredibly ambitious, 

502
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:15,600
you know, willing to walk in 
the, you know, in the bathroom 

503
00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,400
and be like, I'm I'm out of 
here. 

504
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:20,300
I'm out of here. 
Logan? 

505
00:26:21,500 --> 00:26:23,200
Yeah, he's, yeah, he's trying to
negotiate. 

506
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Yeah. 
With him, like even at his. 

507
00:26:25,300 --> 00:26:29,400
Yeah, his big night exactly. 
I love that part of him. 

508
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:33,000
I mean, I think that for me, is 
one of the most exciting Parts 

509
00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,800
about Greg is that All the 
things that were the sort of 

510
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,100
ambition that I myself sort of 
put a dampener on and I'm like, 

511
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,300
no, don't don't go up to that 
person and say that right now 

512
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:48,600
don't you know, you're just you 
read the rich like read the 

513
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,200
room. 
I read the room Gregory's it and

514
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,400
he's like everything is 
available. 

515
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:58,000
Where do I want to go the most 
right now? 

516
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:03,800
And so, yeah, there's just that 
kind of freedom of like instinct

517
00:27:03,800 --> 00:27:07,500
and excitement, and saying, 
thoughts that are inside your 

518
00:27:07,508 --> 00:27:09,900
head that most people don't say 
out loud. 

519
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:12,900
Yeah. 
And and I love that. 

520
00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:15,200
I mean, that's a fun day to get 
to have. 

521
00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:18,700
It is awesome that it's awesome 
watching you and and and and 

522
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:23,200
also I think, you know, I'm 
curious to like it seems to me 

523
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:27,000
like the whole cast, you know, 
you all I have gotten to know 

524
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,400
each other so, well, do you 
feel, you know, similarly, to 

525
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,300
Preparing yourself. 
Do you, how much time do you all

526
00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:36,000
spend together? 
Because from what I can tell, 

527
00:27:36,000 --> 00:27:41,100
you know, it feels like this 
real family to me, you know, and

528
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,300
the way that you all interact, 
it feels like you have almost 

529
00:27:44,300 --> 00:27:47,900
like a second nature where you 
just know like you you respond 

530
00:27:47,900 --> 00:27:50,400
to each other. 
So naturally in those roles. 

531
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,300
Yeah. 
I I don't know how but I think 

532
00:27:53,300 --> 00:27:55,400
it just got built really 
quickly. 

533
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:59,200
You know, I think Adam probably 
set us up perfectly and just 

534
00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,400
sort of throwing us into these 
rooms and saying, you know, say 

535
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,000
whatever you want to each other 
here and you try something Nick,

536
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:08,100
you try, you start the 
conversation at the table and 

537
00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:13,100
everybody basically gets 
permission in that way to embody

538
00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:15,800
your character, see what happens
like will use it. 

539
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:18,000
Maybe we won't maybe it helps, 
maybe it doesn't. 

540
00:28:18,100 --> 00:28:21,900
But but when you're put into 
that kind of initiation with a 

541
00:28:21,908 --> 00:28:25,600
group of people and, you know, 
in the pilot phase, it's all the

542
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,400
Three. 
You're you know, you're all 

543
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,100
buying into something that isn't
a sure thing. 

544
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,700
Yeah. 
And it's it's it's like well 

545
00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:34,500
let's just go for this. 
All right. 

546
00:28:34,500 --> 00:28:36,900
Let's see. 
I mean that felt good that felt 

547
00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:38,400
funny. 
What is this show? 

548
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,900
Like is this a drama? 
Is it a comedy? 

549
00:28:40,900 --> 00:28:43,600
Am I you know, right am I doing 
this right? 

550
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:44,900
I mean everybody's just 
wondering. 

551
00:28:44,900 --> 00:28:48,200
So I think Adam kind of 
neutralize that in a good way 

552
00:28:48,300 --> 00:28:50,400
which was just sort of like try 
it all. 

553
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:52,800
Yeah, well, that's right. 
Just try it. 

554
00:28:52,900 --> 00:28:56,100
I love that so much. 
I mean I think Adam You know, 

555
00:28:56,100 --> 00:28:59,900
and and I would say every every 
good religion o collaborative 

556
00:28:59,900 --> 00:29:02,200
relationship. 
I feel in some sense in some in 

557
00:29:02,208 --> 00:29:06,100
the kernel of it is like that 
we're basically I mean Barry 

558
00:29:06,100 --> 00:29:08,700
Jenkins. 
I mean it's it is so do that 

559
00:29:08,700 --> 00:29:11,900
type of thing where there's just
an openness and a trust to 

560
00:29:11,900 --> 00:29:16,100
things and and Adam and Jesse, 
you know, are the same way for 

561
00:29:16,100 --> 00:29:19,400
me to where it's like there's no
wrong answers. 

562
00:29:19,500 --> 00:29:22,900
If anything, they would be upset
if you didn't present something,

563
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,200
that was your idea. 
You know? 

564
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,300
That's the only thing that would
be Bad as if you don't share an 

565
00:29:27,300 --> 00:29:31,200
idea that you're having, because
no one like, Adam always says 

566
00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,500
stuff to me, like, you know, 
he'll always say the movie is 

567
00:29:34,500 --> 00:29:36,700
going to win in the end. 
It's not about any one of us. 

568
00:29:36,700 --> 00:29:39,700
It's about the project. 
If it's a good idea, it'll make 

569
00:29:39,700 --> 00:29:42,300
the whole project better. 
So let's all share ideas. 

570
00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:47,300
Yeah, I think, I think you on 
succession, you show an idea and

571
00:29:47,300 --> 00:29:51,600
usually helps Jesse understand 
his seen better or the direct, 

572
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,800
you know, Mark usually but, but 
they'll sort of be like, oh 

573
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:56,400
yeah, no wait. 
That's good. 

574
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,600
Stick with that and then do this
on top of it. 

575
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,400
Yeah, so I want. 
So in terms of like other 

576
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:04,600
projects like what is? 
I don't know, has there been a 

577
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:09,900
crazy process that happened. 
That was like not your your 

578
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,000
ideal way and it turned out, 
okay? 

579
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,900
Or like, what are some sort of 
like, odd circumstances? 

580
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:16,900
May be that you've created music
or things you thought. 

581
00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,000
They're certainly wouldn't work 
did like, there's a good? 

582
00:30:21,008 --> 00:30:25,800
Yeah, I think I spent a lot of 
time during and after college A 

583
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,400
lot of short films you know 
because I feel short films are 

584
00:30:28,400 --> 00:30:31,300
like in a lot of ways. 
I think people don't appreciate 

585
00:30:31,300 --> 00:30:33,600
enough. 
How crucial short films are to 

586
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,600
fit the film industry and that 
short films are like a really 

587
00:30:37,600 --> 00:30:41,100
tangible way that that 
filmmakers learn how to how to 

588
00:30:41,100 --> 00:30:45,100
make movies, you know? 
I mean, I certainly learned a 

589
00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:48,900
lot about how to score things 
just by, you know, working with 

590
00:30:48,900 --> 00:30:51,800
friends who were making shorts 
and every single one, just 

591
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:54,700
trying different things and 
experimenting and really, really

592
00:30:54,700 --> 00:30:55,800
leaning into it that way. 
Way. 

593
00:30:55,900 --> 00:31:00,000
I mean, people might and I was a
cocktail pianist at one point in

594
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,300
high school. 
Actually. 

595
00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:06,300
I used to like play used to play
cocktail music for like 

596
00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:09,500
fundraisers and, you know, 
private parties. 

597
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:14,000
And then I actually after my 
freshman year in college, I had 

598
00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,600
this whole, you know, I mean it 
was it was a tough time. 

599
00:31:17,600 --> 00:31:21,000
Like I was I guess freshman 
year, I really wasn't sure what 

600
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,100
to do with myself, just in life.
I was when I was growing up, I 

601
00:31:24,108 --> 00:31:27,800
always thought I was gonna be a 
concert Pianist and basically, 

602
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:30,100
sort of like, late high school, 
I started thinking to myself, 

603
00:31:30,108 --> 00:31:32,100
maybe I'm not gonna be a concert
pianist, you know. 

604
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:36,000
So I took a year off after my 
freshman year in college to give

605
00:31:36,000 --> 00:31:40,300
concerts, and basically, spend 
my days, like just playing the 

606
00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:42,500
piano all the time. 
And that was the year where I 

607
00:31:42,508 --> 00:31:44,500
was. 
I did a lot of cocktail piano as

608
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:46,800
you know, which was, which was a
whole other world. 

609
00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:50,500
And I mean as far as other stuff
too I even I even wrote like 

610
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:52,400
telephone hold music which was 
really interesting. 

611
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:55,100
I've done, you know, I I just 
love writing music. 

612
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:59,100
So before I knew how to get 
gigs, I would just, I had a 

613
00:31:59,100 --> 00:32:03,100
friend who read, who worked at a
restaurant who reached out to me

614
00:32:03,100 --> 00:32:06,700
and was like, so I got a gig for
you and I was like, oh, what is 

615
00:32:06,700 --> 00:32:08,600
it? 
He's like the restaurant needs 

616
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:12,100
hold music. 
Would you, you know, do you 

617
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:13,500
think you would do something? 
And I was like this is 

618
00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:15,100
incredible. 
So excited like he's like 

619
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:17,800
there's no pay but they'll like 
buy you a drink and I was like 

620
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,100
let's do this. 
So you know, I wrote this kind 

621
00:32:20,100 --> 00:32:23,700
of like spa music that I thought
be relaxing when you know get 

622
00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,500
put on hold and I had my friend.
You're so nice like they would 

623
00:32:26,500 --> 00:32:28,400
call the restaurant and they 
would be like, oh could you 

624
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,000
please put me on hold you know, 
like so they could not hear the 

625
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,400
music, you know. 
So so those might be some 

626
00:32:33,400 --> 00:32:36,400
unexpected gigs, you know, we 
all expected gigs right? 

627
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:37,300
Like you. 
Yeah. 

628
00:32:37,300 --> 00:32:40,600
That's yeah, that's such a cool 
way to release music like. 

629
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,300
Hey, all right, here's my new 
track call. 

630
00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:44,500
This number call this at exactly
call this number. 

631
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,700
And and it also makes you 
appreciate to like how I mean 

632
00:32:47,700 --> 00:32:51,100
the many places that music does 
exist, you know? 

633
00:32:51,100 --> 00:32:55,500
That is every place you hear 
music, somebody worked on. 

634
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,600
Exactly, you know. 
And the lesson to me was just 

635
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,900
like, if you're, if you're this 
excited about writing music for 

636
00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:07,100
literally any possible context, 
it must mean that you really 

637
00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:09,600
like writing music, you know, 
and I think those were the, 

638
00:33:09,900 --> 00:33:11,200
those were, the kind of the 
lessons. 

639
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,000
I think I was having for, to my 
to myself, sort of like, 

640
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,100
everyone's trying to figure out 
what to do and you don't know 

641
00:33:17,100 --> 00:33:19,200
enough because you haven't lived
enough. 

642
00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:23,100
And the thing that I started 
realizing was just how did I 

643
00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:27,100
want to spend my day if I could 
structure my Anyway, what would 

644
00:33:27,100 --> 00:33:29,600
what would I do? 
And I was in a band in college 

645
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,300
and I was scoring Friends 
movies, and I realized that if I

646
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:35,600
was just writing music all day, 
I'd be pretty happy. 

647
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,500
So, you know, over. 
So you just start figuring out, 

648
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:42,100
well, maybe that's what I should
do be doing and were you able to

649
00:33:42,100 --> 00:33:44,900
make enough money like doing 
stuff in college? 

650
00:33:44,900 --> 00:33:47,900
Or was it, you had to have a 
side job and not at all. 

651
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:49,400
It was the passion that. 
Yes. 

652
00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:52,800
So in college. 
So, the, the cocktail gigs were 

653
00:33:52,800 --> 00:33:55,200
were great, but I mean, there 
were only so many different 

654
00:33:55,200 --> 00:33:56,600
ways. 
Nobody ever change for someone 

655
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:59,300
in summoning cocktails that 
there's not that many not that 

656
00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:02,900
many opportunities for that. 
So, I was also an organist. 

657
00:34:03,100 --> 00:34:05,200
I was a church organist in the 
Summers. 

658
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:09,400
Well, in Colorado, I was the 
Jewish organist in an Episcopal 

659
00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:12,300
Church, which was which was 
fascinating. 

660
00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:15,300
Those were, those were some of 
the Musical musical ways in 

661
00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:17,300
college that I would try to make
some money. 

662
00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:21,800
But but, you know, I think for 
film and TV and, and the Arts in

663
00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:25,900
general, I think it's like it is
a long term investment See. 

664
00:34:25,900 --> 00:34:30,900
Now it takes, it takes a long 
time, it takes so much work and 

665
00:34:31,100 --> 00:34:34,100
and so many projects until you 
start. 

666
00:34:34,100 --> 00:34:36,100
Hopefully, getting the 
opportunity to get really paid 

667
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:37,600
for it. 
Yeah, totally. 

668
00:34:37,699 --> 00:34:39,900
Totally. 
Have you had moments where I 

669
00:34:39,908 --> 00:34:42,000
don't know you're on the 
trajectory but you're like I 

670
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:45,000
don't know how to get to the 
next rung of this. 

671
00:34:45,300 --> 00:34:47,000
Like I'm scoring four friends 
shorts. 

672
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:50,699
And but how do I actually score 
a feature or how do I score 

673
00:34:50,699 --> 00:34:52,900
somebody? 
That doesn't even know me or I 

674
00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:55,300
mean, absolutely. 
Did you had some moments where 

675
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:56,400
your You. 
Yeah. 

676
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,700
I mean it's it and it's 
interesting too because I think 

677
00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,900
it speaks to the whole industry 
as well, where it's like certain

678
00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:05,800
industries are structured in 
ways where they're more like 

679
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:08,600
where there's a more obvious on 
ramp in a way. 

680
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,600
You know I've been talking to 
some friends about this just in 

681
00:35:10,607 --> 00:35:13,400
the context of the world today 
where it's like you know, if you

682
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,600
think about like being a lawyer 
being a doctor, let's just say 

683
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,300
as an example. 
You know there are certain 

684
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:21,700
schools that you go to and you 
get an approved degree of a 

685
00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:24,900
certain sort and then it leads 
there's the end of a track and I

686
00:35:24,900 --> 00:35:27,600
think Arts Entertainment is much
more amorphous. 

687
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:32,900
It's much more, it's much more 
unclear, how, what that on-ramp 

688
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:33,900
is? 
You know? 

689
00:35:33,900 --> 00:35:36,800
And and I one thing I've been 
spending time thinking about is 

690
00:35:36,800 --> 00:35:41,800
like creating more ways to like 
demystify the process or do 

691
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:44,300
mentorships. 
I've been trying to teach a bit 

692
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:48,200
and talk about that because I 
think it's I think that way we 

693
00:35:48,200 --> 00:35:51,500
will get more, you know, there's
just so many incredibly talented

694
00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:55,200
people who either don't have an 
opportunity to do this or who 

695
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:58,100
don't. 
Even aren't even exposed to the 

696
00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:01,500
opportunity you know to know 
that they could be amazing at it

697
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,700
in a way I think Hollywood is is
a freelance industry. 

698
00:36:04,700 --> 00:36:07,800
Like almost everybody is 
freelancing and free. 

699
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,000
Like for example freelance 
musicians, you know it's like a 

700
00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:13,300
we're all gig to Gig which which
has opportunities because you're

701
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:17,300
flexible and you can take on new
projects and you go from one 

702
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:20,600
cool thing to another. 
But also there's a sense of what

703
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:22,400
is the structure? 
What's the stability of the 

704
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:23,900
structure? 
Over long periods of time? 

705
00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:25,400
I know I wanted to talk to you 
about. 

706
00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:29,000
That because you have a really 
good work schedule. 

707
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:33,400
Work structure, like your you 
are very busy and obviously like

708
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:35,200
you have your studio at your 
home so you can just do it 

709
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:39,800
whenever. 
But how do you continue to turn 

710
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,900
and work and always stay 
inspired? 

711
00:36:41,900 --> 00:36:45,400
I mean, you know, for me, I've 
like, I've done a little bit of 

712
00:36:45,408 --> 00:36:48,000
music, but when I do it, it's 
because there's something in me,

713
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:50,600
that's like, okay, I gotta write
a song and it's, it comes out of

714
00:36:50,607 --> 00:36:55,000
some urge that's in that moment 
or yeah, something happened that

715
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:57,400
inspired words or you know 
whatever. 

716
00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:02,400
But but you do this every day 
and you're able to like I don't 

717
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:06,200
know, it just love to hear like 
how that works and if some days 

718
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:08,300
you wake up and you're like I 
don't know how to make music 

719
00:37:08,300 --> 00:37:13,900
today but then somehow you do 
you know or if it's a process of

720
00:37:13,900 --> 00:37:16,600
like you're making a lot and 
you're like I know I'm going to 

721
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,300
make x amount of music and some 
of it will just be unusable I 

722
00:37:21,308 --> 00:37:22,700
think. 
Combination of things, I think 

723
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:27,700
in college when I was in my 
band, I would make, you know, a 

724
00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:30,400
lot of beat like I was hugely 
into making and producing hip, 

725
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:32,900
hop beats. 
And I would, I would work, I 

726
00:37:32,908 --> 00:37:35,800
mean I would make I was making 
so many tracks every day. 

727
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,900
You know, it was just, it was 
just, I just loved it. 

728
00:37:38,100 --> 00:37:42,200
And but one of the things, my, 
my friend Jake and I would do is

729
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,400
we had this sort of rule for 
ourselves which was it sounds 

730
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:48,600
really basic but we felt it was 
like the most profound 

731
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:52,600
realization and all it was was 
that we said Ed, if it feels 

732
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:56,000
good, keep going. 
And if it doesn't stop, and that

733
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:58,500
was the rule. 
And it was, when we figured that

734
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,500
out, it was like a revelation to
us, because I think there are 

735
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,400
these times where it's 
something, you know, some things

736
00:38:03,400 --> 00:38:06,200
like not quite working, but 
you're like, no, I'm gonna like 

737
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,600
push it through. 
It's like, don't just, just 

738
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:09,900
stop. 
Just go away. 

739
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:12,700
Just pause, do something else 
and come back tomorrow. 

740
00:38:12,700 --> 00:38:17,400
And the weirdest thing is like, 
time tells you everything, you 

741
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,600
know, like I feel I feel and 
also it takes the pressure. 

742
00:38:21,700 --> 00:38:25,300
Our off those moments where a 
lot of it is like, you know, yes

743
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,900
you want to just experiment with
things and you just try 

744
00:38:27,900 --> 00:38:31,500
something and there's no way to 
know beforehand if it's anything

745
00:38:31,500 --> 00:38:32,600
is ever. 
It's going to work. 

746
00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:34,600
You know I literally never have 
any idea. 

747
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:36,800
If something is going to work I 
just do it and then I don't 

748
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:40,000
judge it and then 24 or 48 hours
later you come back to and 

749
00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:42,700
you're like oh that was that's 
kind of interesting and then the

750
00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:45,000
other one you're like, oh wow, 
never never play that ever 

751
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:48,300
again. 
Sometimes when I'm making music 

752
00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:52,600
it comes out in this flurry and 
then I think back and I'm like, 

753
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:57,300
whoa, those four hours? 
I don't know how I came up with 

754
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:58,900
that. 
I don't know how any of this 

755
00:38:58,900 --> 00:39:02,500
happened but it just happened. 
Do you have that? 

756
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,100
Like, you know, is that, is that
a part of the process that 

757
00:39:05,100 --> 00:39:07,700
you're just? 
Like, I think, whenever music or

758
00:39:07,700 --> 00:39:11,400
art is intellectual in, it's 
like execution. 

759
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,600
I don't think it works. 
I think it has to be kind of 

760
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,800
visceral, you know, like like in
a way, like you study things. 

761
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,800
You learn about technique, you 
practice. 

762
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,500
So that in the moment, you don't
Any of that and you just go kind

763
00:39:23,500 --> 00:39:26,400
of from your gut, you know, and 
and in a way I think it's like 

764
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:28,700
it's like what you were talking 
about with performance, you 

765
00:39:28,707 --> 00:39:30,500
know? 
I mean I think I think the 

766
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:34,300
moment that you're writing 
something let's say is kind of 

767
00:39:34,300 --> 00:39:39,700
like a performance that you just
freeze and then you work on it, 

768
00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:43,400
you know what I mean? 
Like like like every idea that 

769
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:48,400
that ends up being finished at 
one point was just like a anime,

770
00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:51,100
like it emerged as almost 
improvisation and then it And 

771
00:39:51,100 --> 00:39:53,300
then you edit it and you choose 
and you say, no, I don't like 

772
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:55,500
this. 
And, you know, so that that 

773
00:39:55,500 --> 00:39:59,400
first kind of moment of 
something in a way for 

774
00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,300
everything is always a 
performance, you know. 

775
00:40:01,300 --> 00:40:04,800
And so it has to be like I'm 
sure if you're on stage or in 

776
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:09,400
front of a camera you know that 
moment is that special thing, 

777
00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:11,000
right? 
Totally. 

778
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:13,500
That's why. 
When you do a TR which is the 

779
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,100
the redoing of your lines in a 
studio, six months later. 

780
00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:20,800
Yeah, it's so weird because 
there's so many factors that 

781
00:40:21,000 --> 00:40:25,200
Happen out of thin air, right in
a room with somebody with 

782
00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:28,700
cameras happening to be there, 
but you just can't recreate that

783
00:40:28,700 --> 00:40:30,900
later but that speaks to like 
what you were saying earlier 

784
00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:34,600
like, do you for example for a 
Dr. Do you do even more of a 

785
00:40:34,600 --> 00:40:39,100
kind of immersion? 
You know, I try to wear 

786
00:40:39,100 --> 00:40:42,900
something that was similar and 
maybe and I try to if my body's 

787
00:40:42,900 --> 00:40:45,700
like moving, I just gotta I 
gotta move while I'm saying the 

788
00:40:45,700 --> 00:40:48,200
line or I don't know. 
You do you do a lot of face 

789
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,800
imagining like opening that 
person? 

790
00:40:50,900 --> 00:40:53,800
There and oh what like like 
literally like mental kind of 

791
00:40:53,808 --> 00:40:57,100
visualization or I guess you're 
sometimes, you're looking at a 

792
00:40:57,100 --> 00:41:00,100
face on the screen, you know, 
you're the screens in front of 

793
00:41:00,100 --> 00:41:01,900
you so so you're looking at 
them. 

794
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:04,200
And so you're trying to 
basically talk to a screen 

795
00:41:04,200 --> 00:41:07,100
version of a human that you used
to be with you. 

796
00:41:07,100 --> 00:41:10,100
Yeah, that you were talking to 
it is the performance stuff is 

797
00:41:10,100 --> 00:41:12,000
fascinating, though. 
I think that's a whole. 

798
00:41:12,300 --> 00:41:14,500
I mean, that could be a whole 
other hour of conversation 

799
00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:17,800
because I feel like thinking 
about preparing for things was, 

800
00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,800
is such a big thing. 
And I know I kind of struggle 

801
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,300
That too because sometimes when 
you're on set and some things is

802
00:41:25,300 --> 00:41:29,900
super important moment for you 
and, you know, sometimes you've 

803
00:41:29,900 --> 00:41:32,500
been thinking about this one 
scene four months. 

804
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:34,100
Yeah. 
Or a year or something, you 

805
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:35,200
know. 
So you might preparing for this 

806
00:41:35,200 --> 00:41:38,300
moment and then somebody is 
there and they want to have a 

807
00:41:38,308 --> 00:41:41,400
conversation about like 
basketball like the NBA, I don't

808
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,400
know where what a great craft 
services. 

809
00:41:43,400 --> 00:41:45,700
Like it's so weird. 
How the coffee taste today or 

810
00:41:45,700 --> 00:41:48,600
something? 
And, and that's a part of onset 

811
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,700
culture to but you know, 
Sometimes you just have these, 

812
00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:55,900
these distractions, and it's 
hard to separate and then 

813
00:41:55,900 --> 00:41:58,800
sometimes you want to use them. 
Like, for instance, in that sick

814
00:41:58,800 --> 00:42:00,900
session Congress. 
Seeing there's a room full of 

815
00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,000
background actors there and read
tog, refers and fake senators, 

816
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:06,600
and all this stuff and sort of, 
I want to look at them and use 

817
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:10,200
them beforehand and get some of 
that energy, maybe you can kind 

818
00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:12,700
of get thrown, but then 
sometimes you also want to use 

819
00:42:12,700 --> 00:42:14,600
it. 
That's really smart. 

820
00:42:14,700 --> 00:42:17,900
That's where your so in it 
already, actually, you're 

821
00:42:17,900 --> 00:42:21,300
already, you've already spun it 
in your favor, but Different. 

822
00:42:21,300 --> 00:42:24,700
When you're playing piano in 
front of a group of people, you 

823
00:42:24,700 --> 00:42:27,400
know, this piece that's 
extremely specific, like I'm 

824
00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:31,300
thinking because I saw you play 
in that every College Juilliard 

825
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:34,400
night, you know, that's a room. 
It's a Symphony Hall, full of 

826
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,800
people and there's 100 people on
stage with you that have all 

827
00:42:38,100 --> 00:42:41,200
rehearsed in your there. 
How do you alleviate the 

828
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:43,800
pressure of the? 
I'd be interested to know. 

829
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:48,000
Like yeah and granted you wrote 
that psoas like it is it's 

830
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:49,500
coming straight out of you 
right. 

831
00:42:49,500 --> 00:42:51,700
But but what does that That what
is that? 

832
00:42:51,700 --> 00:42:54,800
Like, and how do you, I think 
every time it's different, you 

833
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,200
know, it's kind of, like, in a 
way, I was reading something 

834
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:01,700
about this, or where, basically,
it was kind of the idea that 

835
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:07,000
like, if you're ever not nervous
before a performance, it means 

836
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,800
something's wrong. 
Like, in a way I think part of 

837
00:43:09,808 --> 00:43:14,400
it is realizing that sometimes 
what we interpret, as anxiety is

838
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:17,500
actually excitement, you know, 
because it's your body before 

839
00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:20,400
performance, you have energy, 
like your body is energized, you

840
00:43:20,408 --> 00:43:22,200
know. 
And I think if you said 

841
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:23,700
yourself, no, I'm just excited 
about this. 

842
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:26,800
You know, that's, that's, that's
one positive thing, but I think 

843
00:43:26,800 --> 00:43:32,300
the other is just like, I think 
the part of our brains that does

844
00:43:32,300 --> 00:43:34,400
performance like live. 
For example, the part of my 

845
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,900
brain that like helps play the 
piano, you know, is not the 

846
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:40,200
rational, part of my brain. 
And I learned that maybe the 

847
00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:41,900
hard way. 
But is, like, the part of your 

848
00:43:41,900 --> 00:43:46,200
brain, which thinks about 
everything, which knows normal 

849
00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:48,000
thing. 
That's not what's playing the 

850
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:48,500
piano. 
The part. 

851
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:50,200
This plant has some other part 
of your brain. 

852
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,300
That's deep. / and more 
subconscious. 

853
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:55,500
And so I actually think in a 
weird way it's like about 

854
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:59,100
getting out of your own way, you
get out of your head and you 

855
00:43:59,100 --> 00:44:01,400
don't think about it actually, 
you just get out there and 

856
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:05,200
you're just like I'm just gonna 
do, you know I think I think 

857
00:44:05,200 --> 00:44:09,100
anytime that I am thinking about
my planning, it's never a good 

858
00:44:09,100 --> 00:44:11,200
thing. 
But if I'm not thinking the 

859
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,100
irony is like, it seems like 
almost irresponsible, you're 

860
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:17,400
like I'm not thinking about what
I'm doing but it's actually 

861
00:44:17,500 --> 00:44:20,800
that's how you do it, which is a
whole weird. 

862
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:23,400
That we have but I've obviously 
thought way too much about it. 

863
00:44:24,700 --> 00:44:27,000
No, no, I love that. 
I think that's right. 

864
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:31,200
You kind of have to tap out of 
yourself yourself as a as an 

865
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:34,000
ordinary human. 
Like just it's like I'm about to

866
00:44:34,000 --> 00:44:36,600
do this thing. 
That is extremely different from

867
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:40,700
the rest of my day, the rest of 
my life, which is enter this 

868
00:44:41,100 --> 00:44:42,800
instrument in front of a room 
full of people. 

869
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:48,300
So that is a different aspect of
myself and I gotta breathe into 

870
00:44:48,300 --> 00:44:49,200
that. 
Exactly. 

871
00:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,800
And have to allow that to kind 
of Do its own thing, you know? 

872
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:54,400
Yeah. 
And in a weird way. 

873
00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:57,000
Like, that's the bizarre thing. 
I've have, you felt over the 

874
00:44:57,000 --> 00:44:59,800
years like that, there are 
performances that you've given 

875
00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:01,500
X. 
You've been on stage or what 

876
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:06,000
have you in front of a camera 
and you didn't even know kind of

877
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,000
seemingly what you were doing or
you weren't prepared in the way 

878
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,500
that you thought you should be. 
And yet it was the best thing 

879
00:45:11,500 --> 00:45:14,200
you've done, you know, like I've
had that happen where I remember

880
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:17,900
giving a concert where I really 
for whatever the reason did not 

881
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:20,300
think I was prepared for it and 
without question is one of the 

882
00:45:20,308 --> 00:45:23,600
best Winces I ever gave. 
And in some sense, I think that 

883
00:45:23,600 --> 00:45:25,700
made it even more complicated 
for me, because I was like, wait

884
00:45:25,700 --> 00:45:29,700
until I don't even know if by 
not preparing, I gave the best 

885
00:45:29,700 --> 00:45:31,300
concert. 
Now, I'm just confused. 

886
00:45:33,000 --> 00:45:36,200
Well I like I think the best 
moments as a performer are the 

887
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:40,400
ones where you're just okay with
the mystery of how it's going. 

888
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:45,700
Yeah, I don't know, I don't know
how this is going and I'm not 

889
00:45:45,700 --> 00:45:48,000
judging it. 
Actually, I'm just in it and 

890
00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:51,900
there are no boundaries. 
I weirdly just feel like I can't

891
00:45:52,100 --> 00:45:53,900
do anything right now and it's 
just me. 

892
00:45:53,900 --> 00:45:57,500
It's my expression just coming 
out and I think that's the place

893
00:45:57,500 --> 00:46:00,200
you want to get to. 
So you're not like strong-arming

894
00:46:00,200 --> 00:46:02,600
something into what you thought 
the night before. 

895
00:46:02,800 --> 00:46:05,100
Supposed to be your what you 
think, people are going to 

896
00:46:05,100 --> 00:46:08,000
expect of you to do today. 
It's that's right. 

897
00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:11,900
And if I have to shed all of all
that stuff in your, like I 

898
00:46:11,900 --> 00:46:14,100
actually don't know what it's 
gonna be but I know I really 

899
00:46:14,100 --> 00:46:17,000
want to play this song or know. 
I really want to do this scene. 

900
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,000
I know there's something there's
some engine here for me. 

901
00:46:20,000 --> 00:46:23,600
So I'm just going to do that and
then as an actor, you know 

902
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:28,000
specifically, when I feel like 
okay this scene is overwhelming.

903
00:46:28,300 --> 00:46:31,000
Like there was there was a scene
this season that just sounds 

904
00:46:31,000 --> 00:46:32,400
like I don't know what I'm doing
here. 

905
00:46:32,400 --> 00:46:34,900
This Feels, I feel like I'm 
acting in a lot that I'm trying 

906
00:46:34,900 --> 00:46:38,600
to achieve this thing that the 
scene feels like it requires and

907
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,000
that feels bad. 
I feel like a bad actor today, I

908
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:44,700
just don't feel you feel like 
you're doing as opposed to like 

909
00:46:44,700 --> 00:46:47,000
being yeah. 
Where I'm like, I know there's 

910
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:50,700
an expectation for the scene and
so I should make sure like a 

911
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:52,800
certain moment. 
I have a lot of excitement on my

912
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:54,600
face. 
So I have a lot of, you know, 

913
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,700
and that's not everywhere. 
I want to be, like, I don't want

914
00:46:57,700 --> 00:46:59,900
to think about what I have to 
achieve. 

915
00:47:00,500 --> 00:47:02,700
Am I making sense? 
You're totally makes idiots like

916
00:47:02,700 --> 00:47:05,100
because you're, it's kind of 
like what I was saying about the

917
00:47:05,100 --> 00:47:07,500
piano to. 
It's like you're thinking about 

918
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:12,700
about it and almost like a 
success failure or cause-effect 

919
00:47:12,700 --> 00:47:15,300
kind of a way. 
And in a bizarre way, I think in

920
00:47:15,300 --> 00:47:19,100
order for a performance of any 
sort to be in it properly, it 

921
00:47:19,100 --> 00:47:22,300
can't be about, like, success or
failure or kinds of that. 

922
00:47:22,300 --> 00:47:24,400
Exactly. 
Because then it pressurizes, it,

923
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:27,100
and it makes it like, there's a 
result, you need to get to, for 

924
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:30,100
the scene, in order for it for 
ability to walk away and go. 

925
00:47:30,300 --> 00:47:33,900
Next thing and feel like we got 
that scene and this scene 

926
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:35,400
probably didn't even require 
that. 

927
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:38,500
But for whatever reason, I built
this in. 

928
00:47:38,500 --> 00:47:42,400
And in those moments, I usually 
just go. 

929
00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:44,400
Okay. 
And I have an actor, I had 

930
00:47:44,400 --> 00:47:47,400
Jeremy in the room. 
Yeah, I'm like I'm just going to

931
00:47:47,408 --> 00:47:51,100
rely on what Jeremy gives me and
I'm going to back off the 

932
00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:53,400
result. 
I think I need to get to in here

933
00:47:53,900 --> 00:47:56,600
and that to me always kind of 
grounds me and I don't know how 

934
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:58,600
it is in music if you're just 
sort of. 

935
00:47:58,607 --> 00:48:02,100
Like it's just me and him. 
Wouldn't bunch of Ivory and 

936
00:48:02,900 --> 00:48:05,400
metal here, whatever. 
But there's there was something 

937
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,900
nice about, you know, if I'm 
with Matthew or from with on any

938
00:48:07,900 --> 00:48:10,400
set with any actor, I'm just 
sort of like I'm with a person 

939
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:12,100
here. 
Okay, let me just be with the 

940
00:48:12,107 --> 00:48:15,400
persister cells usually 
responding other I think for me 

941
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,100
that's why I love collaboration 
actually that's kind of the 

942
00:48:18,100 --> 00:48:20,800
answer to it in a way. 
That's why I think I'm so drawn 

943
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:23,700
to working with others and 
that's why I love working with 

944
00:48:23,700 --> 00:48:28,200
directors, you know, is because 
they have a vision, I get to 

945
00:48:28,200 --> 00:48:32,400
receive that vision from them. 
And so no matter what I'm 

946
00:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,100
focused on or doing, I can 
always like, there's always 

947
00:48:35,100 --> 00:48:39,100
something to resonate with in a 
way you're kind of free. 

948
00:48:39,100 --> 00:48:41,900
You know, it's that sort of 
liberating constraint, kind of a

949
00:48:41,900 --> 00:48:44,600
thing. 
Ultimately, you know, that there

950
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,400
is this Vision that you would be
will be a part of that you can 

951
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:53,200
learn from that, you can discuss
and it kind of takes you. 

952
00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:55,800
I think, for sure, it takes me 
out of my own head. 

953
00:48:56,000 --> 00:48:57,600
Yeah, it's a conversation. 
Totally. 

954
00:48:57,600 --> 00:49:00,000
It's a conversation. 
Yeah, that feels exactly right. 

955
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,900
Look, I could just keep talking 
to you for another hour at 

956
00:49:02,900 --> 00:49:05,500
least, maybe we'll just keep. 
Yeah well, I love it man. 

957
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:08,500
I love talking to you. 
All right, to talk fascinating. 

958
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:11,200
Yeah. 
Yeah, really, really cool dude. 

959
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:15,000
But it's great to see you via a 
computer screen man. 

960
00:49:15,000 --> 00:49:17,100
And yeah yeah we're talking to 
you. 

961
00:49:17,100 --> 00:49:19,600
I hope I hope I see you in real 
life. 

962
00:49:19,600 --> 00:49:22,300
Yeah. 
Let's let's you know hopefully 

963
00:49:22,300 --> 00:49:24,800
in the not too distant future 
maybe we can do a socially 

964
00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:30,100
distanced you know hello or you 
know distanced coffee. 

965
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:32,000
At some point in New York, you 
know. 

966
00:49:32,300 --> 00:49:33,100
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

967
00:49:33,100 --> 00:49:35,100
Just drink drinks. 
Close to each other. 

968
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:37,600
Yeah. 
But but but like fully hat you 

969
00:49:37,607 --> 00:49:41,900
know protected in gear of some 
you know visors and mass Saran 

970
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:44,200
Wrap and stuff. 
Yeah, exactly exactly. 

971
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,400
But say so safety but you will 
see each other. 

972
00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:50,000
Yeah. 
Thank you a 24 for thank you a 

973
00:49:50,008 --> 00:49:51,500
24. 
Yes together. 

974
00:49:52,300 --> 00:50:00,100
Yeah and and there we have it. 
Thanks for listening. 

975
00:50:00,200 --> 00:50:05,300
Listen, the 824 podcast is 
produced by us a 24 special. 

976
00:50:05,300 --> 00:50:08,500
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt 
and robot repair who composed 

977
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:08,900
our theme