Hey and welcome back to the 824 podcast.
We've been trying to get Lord and Hunter Schafer together for
a conversation ever. Since we heard liability
featured on the jewel. Special episode of euphoria that
Hunter co-wrote things finally came together late last year and
Hunter took a break from filming season two to chat with Lord,
about art, astrology, Antarctica and more.
We hope you enjoyed that episode.
Okay, shall we? Let me go.
All right, let's do it after. All right.
Hello. This is Hunter Shaffer.
And this is Lord and we are talking for the a24 podcast.
Hello. My queen.
Wonderful. How are you?
I am great. Thank you doing this on a very
warm Sunday. Yeah, and holy won't very
toasty, walk over here. Yeah.
Yeah, we were. At the event about the power of
women the other night. Yes, you know, you introduced me
very sweetly and it really touched me.
I, we kill though, public speaking moments.
We tried we used a teleprompters as needed and I just sort of
flag someone down. It was like, alcohol, please.
Yeah, they brought us the funniest like pink drink.
It was with a great pink. Flower and he's truly someone's
interpretation girl. Yeah, you know, yeah drank, but
ripped their, you hate your job and then we just.
Oh God. Yeah, Angelina Jolie got up
right after us. Yeah crazy.
I was like like they should have to resit the whole stage.
You know, she's like the queen. Yeah.
Yeah, her face. Oh my God.
Divine in real life. Simply device so much fun to
look at. Yeah.
I feel like that kind of event. There are a lot of Exquisite
faces. Yeah, you really realize.
Oh, this is what it's all about. Yeah, I mean, and women and
family. Yeah, but you go see today, this
is yeah. This is quite far from
womenswear. I'm just liking.
Yeah. Well, these are proud of pants
actually been to draw my it. See I know I'm in the presence
of the product. So when did that start?
And what does that mean to you, like being a part of God, for?
Is that something you had like likes?
You grow up understanding of prouder because you're into
fashion. Like I've seen your design.
Yeah. Yeah, beautiful.
Really. Thank you Groove really into
fashion. And I think I was more
interested in Mew Mew growing up just because there was something
like kind of more baby doll about it.
And I feel like every like trans girl has this Rite of Passage
through the baby doll Arrow or like, you gotta dress like the
five. Girl that you never got to be
right. So I was I found that in Mew Mew
I think of but then recently I mean just with work and life
changing really fast. I was I just told my team, I was
like, you know, proud of doing some sick shit right now and
wrap Simmons is there and you know, what can we do with them?
And then a few days later they week, they came back with an
offer crazy. Oh cool.
So don't say that. Like, only you You could be.
Is there any kind of fashion girl, you would like to be?
Yeah, I mean, so I like grew up differently.
Consuming a lot of shows on. It wasn't called Vogue Runway at
the time. But what we now yeah Grand way
it was like very into fashion was a big calm head.
Oh sis with calm. Yeah.
Huge Phoebe. Philo saline.
Yes. Course, I'm still, you know, and
I sort of have like, a little collection of those pieces going
on, but nice. It's, you know, it's kind of the
Wild West for Phoebe Philo, Celine fans, the prices of
skyrocketed, you know, I don't want to even imagine.
No, no. No, it's a bad habit.
But no, I liked. I like to really sort of big
strange clothes. I liked a lot of fabric.
Really structural, you know, there was no kind of shape that
I was afraid of and I was sort of the opposite to you and I was
like not King to confront my femininity or my sexuality quite
yeah, you know, is that car? Like I'm literally been talked
about my body. Yeah, so I would sort of yeah.
Find these pieces that were really I think of them now is
like cloaks. Yeah.
Like a magician's cloak. Yeah.
I remember when when I Saw you in concert when I was, like 14
or 15 or something? You.
Yeah, you had, I think you did you or like a cloak?
Maybe it definitely would have. Yeah, that was my cloak.
Yeah, and then like some super badass baggy pants and maybe
like a crop top or something which is go to silhouette.
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. I love.
I love to suit as a kid and I look back.
I'm like, it's kind of funny to be like 15, 16 and I just like
wearing a Santa suit. Yeah, it's kind of tough.
Yeah, I'm proud of it. Yeah, looking back.
I have so many questions for you.
I do want to talk to you a little bit more about your
visual art practice because I think of it as like a big part
of you as a creative. And obviously, I don't like know
that much about yours is creative.
But you do these incredible drawings that you were such a
talented visual artist and I can Even imagine having that arm to
what I can do and how I can express myself.
So I wanted to know like yeah, is that something you've always
done and what like Place does that occupy for you?
Yeah. Do you are you making a lot of
visual art? Yeah, but I'm like, tell me like
it goes and way. I've been doing it.
Like, literally, ever since I can remember.
Like, instead of like sitting me down front of a TV.
My parents would just like, stick me down.
Front of a table with with just like paper and crayons and stuff
and just let me go loose on there.
And then I think something parallel to an addiction was
formed with drawing and yeah ever since I can remember if
there's something in my hand, like the innate feeling is to
just doodle and that I feel like that's where the bulk of red
drawing stuff happens is in like just margins of Papers and like
right agenda. It's cool was just full of
fucking drawings. That's so cool.
Yeah, I went to this state-funded visual art school
for my last two years of high school and kind of got like
trained and it was it was interesting going to school for
a thing. That was like just like my thing
for the first time and then in like that's now part of like
being grated and stuff and I don't know.
It's a weird. It's a weird thing.
Once a passion turns into either like School worker or something
lucrative. You know, I'm sure you feel that
too, with music maybe because I started making music not long
after I started getting paid to make music.
Like, I don't know. It wasn't a big adjustment I
guess. But no, it is a funny thing.
It's something I've been thinking about recently,
actually, like this thing that I think of my work, as I get to
play, just get to go to a studio and play, you know, for months
at a time and months turned into years.
And I'm still there playing like, it's feels no different to
playing at school playing with, you know, like my little dolls
that I would smash. Yeah, you would make dolls to.
Oh, yeah. What kind of God make?
Oh my God. Okay.
So, while my preschool teacher would make these incredible
dolls that you would Get like I don't know if you have it here
like a they call it a Kewpie doll, like a little plastic kind
of dull and she would glue these really intricate kind of skirts
to them. And it's beautiful kind of
glittery Fabrics, but my favorites were, she would find a
little baby doll and it would go inside a walnut shell, why?
And it was, she would make a little bid for it and a walnut.
So it's like a little baby. Like the fairies would have
liked their baby, and it just like that.
Really? Wow.
Yeah, that is yep. I was making all kinds of shit
tube. Very crafty.
Yeah. Crafty child.
Yeah, I feel like if you I mean, I know you're this kind of
person because I just know these people when I see them that you
have a very rich in a world and you and just need to, like, go
there and, you know, dial and times 1000.
Yeah, just be sort of in your own thing.
Yeah. Yeah, the sort of crafty.
Writing and reading and drawing exactly.
All those pastimes were. Yeah, for that.
As a kid. Did you find so much?
Did you ever like because I assume you're quite an inner
World. /? Yeah.
Did you ever try to like like actually map it out or create
some version of it in real life. Oh my gosh, that's a great
question. Well, maybe not in so many
words, but I remember Tavi gevinson, whose friend of mine
who's, you know, so amazing and Of like that.
It was sort of The High Priestess of the inner World,
Knowledge in the inner world. As a teenager for me rocky rocky
represent, but she she would do this.
Amazing sort of color coding of her journals.
She would this whole system of symbols.
And yeah, they'd go with sort of correspond to different emotions
or different parts of hers, which was so amazing to me, but
I've never been someone who journals.
I just like, I don't Write down anything about me.
So I don't know why, and I've tried I'm trying to just kind of
get into it. Yeah, it's like a bad actually
surprises. I know.
No, it's not bad.
I'm where do they go? Hazing?
I know. Well, I guess I into songs
really like notes, which is such a heinous.
Oh, yeah, that's a bad place for them.
You know, she has like 20 or more books and she keeps them in
this a fireproof safe. Like I've seen the interview so
cool. I was like her.
Biggest fan, but before she really cake.
But yeah, yeah. You said, will you work for a
rookie? Yeah, you did my first job.
No. Yeah, they hate going to do.
This is a sign. This is a scoop for me.
Let's see. Yeah.
I I was like I said in an avid, Tommy Gavin's and Stan in like
freshman year of high school. All and on Instagram I in my
fandom - posted I cut out a picture of toffee with an exacto
knife from a magazine shoot because I like collected
everything that she was in and then like I held her little
paper hand and and took a picture of the of the cutout and
posted it for her birthday. It?
Yeah, I guess she. She found it and then found my
account with my art on it and asked me to be a contributor.
And I had a meltdown and then contributed for like a few
years. Oh my gosh.
It's a go back and look at these.
I bet I'd sold them at the time. Maybe.
But oh my God, it was so yeah, my work is changed a lot.
Yeah, but no actual, but it was so, so cute and I'm glad rookie
still a relic. I think they'd still up.
Yeah, though. Oh, they stopped putting stuff
out. Ya know.
I've seen that too. I have thought about it.
Recently. I read an article about.
Yeah, the the sort of having those spaces for for teens.
Yeah. Yeah.
And how cool that was. And they talk about sassy as
well, which is yeah. I kind of sort of 90s magazine
that Hank inspired rookie and you know, so cool to yeah.
I wonder if I'm sure kids are creating those spaces for
themselves. Yeah.
I'm out of the game. You know, it's kind of crazy.
You think of that? Yeah.
Teenaged. Yeah, like I'm 24.
Your 22. And it's one of those things.
I never thought I would be outside of.
I know it's sort of a grieving. It was never never For Better or
For Worse. Oh my god.
Do kind of miss it. Sometimes though.
Just because where we're at now seems like such a dream world,
like so far. Away and unimaginable.
Mmm, and it's wild to be in that like, I don't know.
What, what your was this like your aspiration like what you're
doing. Now, I main I didn't really have
all I thought was I want to I want to make something that
communicates with people, like me, the way I would want to be
communicated with. I was so I just felt like there
was nothing that was talking to people my age.
Like we were real people not from something like rookie, you
know, I was like, where's the musical equivalent of that?
You know, 2012 2013. It was like a bit of a desert.
Yeah, there were, you know, young sort of pop artists, I
guess, but like social media was still Lll, not really a big part
of being an artist. So you sort of didn't have that
connection with someone's voice and their personality.
I still remember like I think I said to my label or something,
you know, I'm doing doing Instagram and Twitter.
It's kind of fun and they were like, okay, like good on, you do
it. I guess it's just it was like
and now, you know, they're like that's a huge part of.
Yeah, it's like completely monetize.
Yeah, you know. It Wild.
I feel like I can fully like completely say most of my career
stuff has come from fucking Instagram like Nike and you have
to have you have to give that. Yeah the credit that it's just.
Yeah. Yeah.
So how did you these are just
like questions? I'm interested in.
How did you get your roll on you for it?
And was that like an early? Acting role for you.
It yeah, I never acted before well for you.
It was not in my plan at all. And then pretty, especially at
that point. I'm less shy now because acting
is sort of, really broken man. Yeah, but definitely, I was
really shy, you know, I was modeling in New York, just
really to be making some money and And be in New York and
around an industry that I wanted to work in.
But even with the performative stuff of that, I couldn't have
dreamed of acting and I'd never been on in a dip like in an
audition before. And my agency said, that these
casting people had reached out and asked me to come in and read
for this role for this HBO show. I was like, I don't know.
I didn't know what to think of it.
And initially I was like like I don't think I want to do it just
because it's not my wasn't my thing.
I have obviously supposed to go to school in a few months and
fashion. But they asked again and I think
I ended up going in and yeah, just kept getting called back
which was really surprising and surprising.
Yeah, I can imagine what happened after they met.
You all of their Prospect sort of just falling away what you
have and that role like there was just no one else.
All right, God, it's insane. I mean it is it's so cool to
think about like, what other Into Jewels.
There could have been because she's so closely like neide to
Mighty. I don't think about any of them.
There are no other bitch, but it's kind of fun like like a
giant watch Teen, Titans know, what is that?
Oh, it's a, wow. I bring this up a lot of time
but there's like this character. It's like a teen superhero show.
And this is character Raven who was always my favorite.
And yeah, there was like an episode where she divided up
into like 10 versions of herself and he won It was a different
color of the rainbow Spectrum, but wow, tangent.
Yeah, I got that with jewels. Yeah.
Yeah, like what other actors could have done?
It's kind of fun. Have you ever acted?
I actually acted before I sang My Music really?
Yeah. I was in like a drama group in
my neighborhood. Wow, from age five to about 13
or 14, so it wasn't in school now.
On your own towel. Yeah, 10.
Yeah. Own time.
We're absolutely loved it. I yeah, I was just chronically
painfully shy. And this was the thing that made
me feel like I was powerful and yeah.
And like, you know, and being someone else and speaking, I
could put that aside that shyness and yeah, just like
deepest sort of big prisons, which I loved and yeah, I did.
And I did that for a long time. I do think about it, but I think
like I was not a good actor. I think if I really think about
it, like I wasn't good. I can't I could memorize words
and I could like project but I'm like, you know, I don't I can
feel it like, you know at times my music job has required me to
do like a tiny bit of acting with her.
It's like and a music video. Like just like look up and look
surprised and I do it like, oh God.
Music video, sound fun to film. You actually actually have a
question about this. Do you actually get to listen to
the music for them? The entire day, the entire day,
the entire day. It's all your doing.
You're listening to the song over and over and over.
And the one thing I didn't know about when I started making
videos. Sometimes they will shoot at a
different frame rate. And so you have to sing to a
version that is either like twice as slow, or twice as fast,
which is crazy. Like Oh my God, I think rappers
like, who are just like spitting?
Yeah, like taking a 24-hour videos as well.
It makes things look really like it perk and yeah.
Yeah, I mean slow-mo. So she just it shit looks cool.
Yeah. It's like slow and but doesn't
look slimmer. It's a crazy thing I've done in
years. But yeah, no, you listen to the
song all day. We recently shot a bunch of
videos did six or seven for this album.
New Zealand. Solar power for some foul.
Yeah, and yeah, we were like on this beach for like 10 days or
something. Sighs solar power or that way.
Yeah, that base. Yeah.
The video so much fun. Thank you.
Yeah, it was, it was so fun. But just like that was my first
experience co-directing. And like I knew co-directed that
yeah in like written all the treatments and like basically,
you know, almost helped produce it like I was super super
involved, but it was It was such a so much fun that experience of
being on a set. Cool.
This is this is fun. If only I could act, I could be
doing you were serving whatever the vibe of that song is in the
video. I could I could feel it through
my screen. Thank you.
How'd you ever directed before? No, I think I had like I think
it's like a classic thing for young women.
You're like. Oh, I think I do this thing.
But I've never been credited with a yeah ever.
Like, talk to me about, you know, whether it's like music
production or video directing or, you know, graphic design
stuff like people dressed. Yeah.
It takes a second to be like, hey, I know what I've
contributed to this and, you know, I think my credit should
reflect that. Absolutely, this differently
than a process for me, figuring out how to voice that.
But yeah. Yeah.
So this is my first, like, time. Being called a director.
Yeah. But yes, it was so fun.
Yeah, you got the title. Yeah, so okay.
I have a bunch of questions for you.
I deserve mind, there's more, there's more videos.
There's more. Yeah, they collect myself as a
fan. Yeah.
I wanted to talk about I want to let your episode actually that
you wrote. Yeah before it.
Which was so Awesome color elves.
Yeah, I wrote it. Yeah, it was so beautiful.
I mean I really yeah I could see.
I don't know. I just all the time when I
watching you do stuff. I can tell that there are so
much to come like you just keep unfoldings.
Another layer. There's another layer and I feel
like this episode was like 10 wires.
You might of layers. Ya did it feel?
That way to you. What was the experience like,
right? Yeah, and what made you want to
write an episode? Definitely.
Once again, it wasn't necessarily something that I was
looking for. I think of myself as not that
great with Words, which is why draw and paint and stuff like
that. Because that feels so much
easier than trying to articulate myself with these shits words.
He's shit. Yeah, they're really annoying.
I find them constricting, but, but yeah, Sam and I were just
talking a lot of the pandemic. We had played around writing
this other movie out of sheer boredom and wanting to be back
at work. And and so we already had that
Dynamic established a little bit.
And in, he was thinking about doing Jewels episode after
writing. The roux episode and we just
started talking about it and got into it and eventually he was
just like this kind of sounds like dialogue.
Should we do this together? And I was like, oh fuck.
Yeah. Hmm, and we did it in like a
week, the first draft. Um, but writing is really cool.
Actually. There's some may be particularly
with with Sam because he's a pretty visual thinker to and and
really rhythmic, there's something like musical about
like writing a script as well because you're kind of having to
like Envision the beets and the like you really are having to
play out the entire thing in your head and then figure out
how to say that or communicate that and like as few words as
possible, plus whatever dialogue is happening, but it's really
fun that way because it's like making a map for or like a
blueprint for this thing that could be very real.
It's really wild to like write about a room and then like a
month later walk into that room. You wrote about totally that's a
crazy feeling. Yeah.
Yeah, but It was, it was definitely like the most
cathartic artistic experience. I've had so far in life.
I felt that and I wanted to ask you about it because, you know,
it was such a, it's such a deep exploration of of, femininity of
transferability of, you know, desire and physicality.
The likes of which they feel like I hadn't ever really seen,
you know her before some of those.
Wow. Yes.
Thoughts. I thought it was like a real and
like, I'm, you know, don't like truly not already on this at
all, obviously, but I felt like it was a real entry into a young
trans girl Cannon or something at felt really, really big in
that way. It's supposed to be.
Yeah, there's no not at all. It was yet mission accomplished,
but I was interested to know how.
Yeah, we're We're we're the liners with sort of personal
and, and you know, how much of that is that character?
And how much of that is you because, you know, always with
something really personally. I want to know like, is that
her? Where's that home?
I read a lot of water fiction. You know, I think it's like a
basic questionnaire, that you're not really supposed to ask like
is that you will the character. But I know I was curious about
it. It's really, which parts of
yourself, you know, you brought in which parts felt like they
were doing. This to it.
Yeah, it's it's wild. I mean the whole show and Sam
who taught me how to act and right and all of these things
literally from the ground up. He's he's trained in method
acting. So there's a bit of a basis of
that. They're which yields pretty
blurry lines, pretty fast. I think.
Do you kind of do a bit of a method?
I don't have like a technique. Okay, like like they tried to
the casting director, tried to stick me in this.
This acting class in New York with this guy who like, fucking
trained some crazy actors. And but it was the method
technique. Wow, and I made it two weeks
long class before I had to drop out because it is so hardcore
like that technique as a as a Oh my God, like not right for
everyone. Like know their works here at
really works. Yeah, I can imagine being born a
nineteen-year-old. Like I had weighed too much
going on to figure out how to like completely become someone
else for a long period of time. No.
Totally. But there that the episode is a
lot of. There's a lot of me in it.
Um, and even Jules as a character in the first season
was sort of built around. A lot of are like a lot of my
experiences fall in line with hers or Sam.
So it's like a bit of a mixture of both of us, but I'd been
through a lot that pandemic summer as well.
I don't know how the pandemic was for you, particularly in the
quarantine ones, but definitely lost my shit a little, right.
Yeah, so I'd been through a lot. And kind of just coming out of
that, really rough patch when we started writing it.
So I had all this just like energy that was doing and that
got poured into it, at least for the acting as well.
I feel like I was saving a lot of men, a lot of shit to, like,
get out for the days that we filmed.
It was crazy watching you in that episode.
That was definitely like another layer again.
Yeah. Yeah, so so real.
Yeah, so there was like a lot of real emotions coming out in that
Jude as well. House special to get to
metabolize it in that way. Yeah.
It really. What is so therapeutic.
Yeah, do you feel that way with like songwriting or could you
write all your stuff, right? I showed up.
Yeah, do you feel that way with it or or?
I also know you have them? Yes.
Nothing, nothing. The fact, but do you feel that
way when writing or is it sort of something more like post
having the feelings? Or do you gotta like, oh, I'm
having a feeling right now. I got to like, save it for
later. Whatever provide.
No Patty could like get this out and stuff.
Well, I I do find. I find songwriting to be really,
I guess it is cathodic. Like I think, By the time I
finish the song I've helped to reconcile what it is.
Like if it's something that is sort of grappling with something
that is a bit more naughty. Like I remember that with
liability actually which is in your episode.
Yeah, Frazier was such a treat for me and sent me the same and
I literally shed a tear which does not happen for me.
Realize that away. It fucking matched up with that.
He's just matched up by itself. Like, helmet.
We didn't even have to add. It was insane, so beautiful.
No, but when I was writing that song guide get around a big
wake-up Hunter when I get, when I was writing that song, before
I started writing. I had been year, like, carrying
around the sort of big naughty feeling.
I was feeling to feeling. Yeah, just like too much and too
big and like, people were going to come along and be like, okay,
turns out you're crazy, got to go and I could just see this
cycle of sort of people being drawn to my light and then
tapping out when it got too crazy unfolding in front of me
and you're writing the song about and sort of like
reclaiming that being like, yeah, I am a lot and this is it,
you know, choose to indulge and, you know, stick it out and good
things will happen. So I feel like yeah, like that.
I definitely remember that as an example and I remember to
actually as this was in New York at the time and I was like 19 or
20 maybe sort of carrying around those big heartbreak and it just
felt like the original heartbreak, you know, like, no
one else. Yeah.
Oh, yeah, it was describing it like this.
Like bubble around me and I just felt like, you know what?
I've got this this big. I've got all this pale purple,
this bubble now and it's okay. Like I've fortified myself
against this, this feeling that, you know, someone might try to
live with me so that that was like a total and it is yeah.
Well, it should feel like that. I think when you've when you've
done it, right? Well, that's what I yeah, that's
what I like about. Like an armor.
Some Yeah, yeah, totally and and yeah, just sort of getting to
move something through and and understand it, you know, a song
might start with her fear. You know, I'm scared that my dog
is going to die. Yeah.
Or something. And then.
Yeah. And in writing that you sort of
yeah, help to. Yeah.
Chants of that soon. Feel it and at.
Yeah, but you're the saddest things are is a weird kind of
weird thing. I've yeah, I don't know if I
mean, it sounds like you You have a little bit of it that
you've said that thing about Max a couple of times.
Yeah, interesting to me that you want this like yeah.
Classification system or something.
It is kind of weird. Yeah, but I think yeah, it's a
sounds visual to me, you know, and it is yeah.
Cuz like inside of my head is a scramble all the time just like
mess. I've pretty intense ADHD, so it
was like, it's just I feel like writing stuff down and mapping
it. These brought one today, but I'm
saying these notebooks are these little note pads.
I love that. Nobody would she what star sign
are you? I'm a Capricorn.
Okay, interesting. Yeah.
What are you? I was Scorpia.
Oh, we're like it actually in school.
But yeah, I just totally understands Capricorns and I
just love your eyes. Thank you so much.
Prolonged. You know what?
That is. Yes, go for you.
Yes reluctant. Yeah, but yeah, I do think of
capcom's is needing systems. Yeah, make it through.
Like yeah, it's just I didn't think I was that way or feel.
Like I rejected that treat for a while because I was like, no I
want to be free spirit. 100. Yeah.
And go with the flow, but but you identify with your Scorpio -
I do I do big time. It's yeah, it's cool.
It was a very passionate strong. And dislikes, sort of Mercurial
my main way I am always like, damn, bitch.
You're a Scorpio is with how I befriend.
I'm very takes me a long time. I don't make friends easily.
But if I bring you in like urine for life, and I'm going to leave
you better than I found you, you know, you're going to like,
that's beautiful. Yeah.
I it's like a whole commitment. Yeah.
For Better or For Worse. The Scorpio eyes on mine with
that. My first girlfriend was a was a
Scorpio and I swear that's like she did something with her eyes
and it was like over. Oh my God.
Yeah, but do you find your you like your compatibilities are
true to like with without. Do you pay attention at the
astrology? Yeah.
I have this like this amazing. Seventies astrology called Linda
Goodman, who I got really into so she has a book called.
Sun Signs and love science. And I gotta say they are
products of the time. Like there's some crazy like
heteronormativity and you know, she's like you're gonna want to
do this for your man because he's gonna want to see this and
I'm like, Oh Linda, I don't know, but they are super
interesting. Their Zeal of signs as like Tom
and it has every possible pairing and it's kind of
fascinating. I love when a friend has just
started. Seeing someone new.
I'm like, let's get Linda out. Yeah.
She's saying No, I'm I'm known for astrologically.
Turbulent Partnerships that seemed to work really well.
But yeah, I do remember looking up potential burger and Linda
was basically like, stop right here.
Go. No further.
This will lead to disaster. Did you listen to her night?
It's been great. Yeah.
I wanted to ask ask about I
guess I wanted to know, like I felt that an in watching that
episode and I keep talking about this episode because they just
think it's so it's so you, you know, I mean, you do your thing
and I love the whole show and whole thing blows me away.
But that, yeah, this episode, it's also like the last bit of
euphoria that I've seen. So, it's pretty fresh in my
mind. But yeah, I felt that in writing
that episode, I could feel you saying.
Here's, here's some things that, Die, maybe.
Haven't seen about, you know, the trans firm experience.
Like, this is something that I want to portray.
They wanted to know if, if there were things that you that you
want about transport rail, whether it's, you know, film or
TV or books, or music, whatever it is, you know, is this
something that you I mean, there's so much that needs to
move forward, but are there particular things that you
literally want to see that? It won't I crave the sand if in
Italy, so many things, I mean, in general, I think like the
closest thing I have to a spirituality is like is like I
believe in people like riding frequencies or like being in
tune with certain frequencies based off of their experience or
whatever, whatever that means. But I feel like there's
specific, frequencies that trans girls and particular like that.
Like, I can hear it in their music.
Um, I can see it in like this. Style.
Like there's an aesthetic and a sound and I think that's that's
like something that I really want to keep trying to portray
properly as I keep getting into directing and producing and
writing and all that stuff. Because it's so it's delicious.
And yeah, I want to I want to see it but with budget, you
know, like CGI budget like good CGI budget.
Just like like Marvel level. Yeah, I yumminess that it
deserves. I think can someone please
Finance the. Yes so divided by that.
I mean I totally hear that your magic.
Yeah. Animate that mentioned there's a
magic in like it makes me think of like ARCA and Sophie.
I don't know if you have your horse.
Yeah, like you can just wear no needs of you can hear it in
their in their sounds. Um, so Noni so beautiful.
Yeah, I think about Think about that a lot and then like maybe I
mean, I really just want to see a trans girl.
Love story. Do you like to trans girls?
Yeah, just that. That's like not a thing really
came in movies. Yeah.
Look. I haven't seen that.
I haven't seen it either. I don't think.
Okay. Well we're voicing it now.
So, yeah, I want to see it. Who knows who might be listening
to this podcast? Exactly.
Yeah. The girls were financed this
please. Thank you.
Really interesting. Is there anything in the world
that you're that? You feel like is missing just as
far as what you consume that you want to see ya.
Yeah. I mean, you know, I guess just
yet like greater Nuance of portrayal across the board just
like I think yeah, it's cool to be like the I don't think there
was a light beautiful trans girl, you know.
Teenager figure on TV when I was a kid.
So that's like, a beautiful thing to see.
But, yeah, just, just going deeper and, and getting that
Nuance everywhere is, is super cool for me.
But no, I don't know. I mean, I'm, I have a weird
like, consumer of popular culture.
I have found myself sort of like, piecing out a little bit
on but feeling okay. Don't know where that is.
I think gonna fix this. I know you're off.
You're not on social media. Yeah.
I think, honestly, part of it is from becoming someone who was
like, creating popular culture quite young.
Yeah, because I was obsessed with growing up.
It was like, just, you know, Candy to me.
I, yeah, I loved and yeah, there's something you do lose a
tiny bit of that magic being the one who's let helping to, you
know, fill the sausage. I don't know.
That's a really weird metaphor, but see how the sausage is made
the filling. Yeah, you know, like like famous
songwriter hang out with him a lot and he would only listen to
like jazz or like Motown as I, you never listen to any anything
modern is that they can't. It's work.
Like I'm I'm in it so I can't like I don't get enjoyment and I
was like, oh my God and while that's not you know, fully true
to me. I can like totally Get down to
pop music. Yeah, there is an element of
needing to. Yeah, just go to slightly
different resources to fully, like, let go and enjoy it
because otherwise, I'm way. I hear that person's was working
with that person. I wonder how that we endure
today, which is like a bit of a, you know, yeah, since getting
off, getting off social media. I've just read more than ever.
It's actually a year of reading. Adding a couple years.
Wow, they read a lot. As a kid.
And then, yeah, if you're spending, like seven hours on
your phone, you just like, don't have the time, definitely.
That's been really amazing. And yeah, just trying to expose
myself to different thinkers or, you know, people who are really
just like, Expanding Horizons for me.
I'm quoted a Maggie Nelson on my switch the other day.
I don't know if you have encountered her work at all.
But no, I think you would really like it.
She, yeah. So this amazing book called The
Argonauts which is like a real. Oh, I've heard of yeah.
Real Beacon for a lot of queer kids.
Yeah, and yeah, really goes into this sort of complexities of her
relationship and that you, she's just an amazing thing for.
I love her so much. She's really good.
So I feel like in seeking out people like that.
I helped to sort of see the things that I, it helps to.
Yeah, for me to see what I want. I want to be saying that is
inspiring. Hey, I highly recommend you go.
No, you're so good at some people.
I'm like, they just, you know, you shine on the platform.
Thank for me. I was like, okay, I guess I'm
gonna like, take a selfie. Yeah.
It was like, it wasn't real. Yeah, just cool.
And definitely more distant now than before good trip down.
Yeah. Yeah, I think so.
So you're filming at the moment. By the time, this comes out the
show, maybe out. I think it's some undisclosed
date. Think so.
Yes. Yes.
We got a nod. Yes.
How's that going? It's, it's wild.
I use that word a lot. Me too.
Yeah, it's a great was a good one company.
Yeah. Well, I heard yesterday.
We have six ish weeks left or worse.
Supposed to, well, I think, wow, which is kind of mind-blowing
after just going into filming. One of these seasons is like,
it's really like piece. Like, like, you're just descend
into this world. That's completely, not real, and
then come back up. Now, six weeks eight so long.
What six weeks is a lot still? That seems like a long amount of
time, but you've been doing it for eight months.
I think in comparison to the entire season, It feels like
yeah, it feels tiny. I'm like, oh my God, like, at
the end of the tunnel. Yeah.
It's been an intense season. Mmm.
Learned a lot about myself person acting just wait.
I don't know how to install gods are not allowed to talk about.
Truly have like three shows that I care about it all of this big
one. Oh, my God.
Oh, okay. Well, I mean what else do I like
gosh, I mean I do like TV. I'm just I'm bad.
Like honestly, I takes me. I have this weird thing where I
can't, I'll say to myself. Oh, I really want to watch that
movie. Mmm, and then I will like it's
almost like making a social engagement and then it gets to
the day and you're like, I don't feel like doing it anymore.
Yeah, it with movies Hunter literally just Months.
I will put a movie on my list and I want I haven't watched.
So you have a list, I have a list, but it's like, it's, I've
been adding shit to it for years.
Yeah, and I take off, literally, maybe want to get like, only
watch maybe two or three movies a year.
Wow. It's like a problem.
I don't know why I find them so immersive, and consumptive that
I need to like, really be in the right head space.
Yeah, that sounds really intense that.
Yeah, first reformed a24 movie that I love a lot.
Yeah. That was that was one of the A
few a couple of years ago and just out totally went down the
rabbit hole of that. It forgot.
I can't recommend enough. Exactly.
But you know, I'm very excited for the show.
What about you? How do you engage with TV with
film at what shows are you? Yeah, I think it's kind of
annoying ever since getting into the making of this stuff right
now. Same thing.
You like. I'm the sausage mate.
Yeah. But it's also like I understand
like what it looks like outside of the frame and like what
everyone's doing. And now I'm I'm like been
trained to like analyze shot and see how it becomes a game of
like analyzing it. Yeah, they used that light there
with that gel and hope was that the right decisions that there
is? No.
I feel like I'm only like half watching.
I feel like I got to watch things a few times to like
really to really Absorb them, but I just trust that that will
happen naturally. If it's meant to like like flea
bag of watching several times or I may destroy you several times.
Oh we've seen that one. Cool.
Yeah. Michaela Cole.
I just go to his book last week. She just wrote this book.
What? It's like a little she did the
speech. I think in 2018, they sort of
like packaged as a book, but I can't just take a little time.
Misfits so cool. Oh my God.
I didn't know she's amazing me. Okay, obsessed with it.
Yeah, me too. Unbeliev.
Just gold. Yeah, that one is my.
We really that unfolds. Oh my God?
Insane. Yeah.
Oh just hearing about her process to and yeah, she's also
not on social media like true if she tried.
She's cool like that. And is there anything else?
We should know before questions that I can ask them in my own
time one thing? Things.
Yes, Antarctica. Oh, yeah, have to ask like, I'm
not even sure how to approach asking about it because it's
fucking Antarctica. But when did, when did you last
couple years ago? I went at the beginning of 2019.
Wow. Yeah, so while ago now, wow,
yeah, and I had been like totally obsessed with it.
My whole childhood I had had books on Antarctica because new
zealanders seven hours away, so you, wow, closest.
Then like most countries. Don't even think about that.
Yeah, so you sort of grow up knowing a lot about it.
And yeah, I was just like so into the history and that sort
of race to the South Pole. This like big dramatic sort of
20th century, you know, like Explorer shirt, people were, you
know, going on behalf of the queen was like psychotic but in
like dying, you know, it's so dramatic, but so I was really
into it being and then, you know starting to Just relate engage
more with our planet. I was sort of like, oh my God, I
think I need to go there. I had this like they had the
reaction which are kind of not supposed to have, which is like
people call it last chance tourism.
Like, I got to go there before it's too late, you know, and
that was sort of my first thought and going to Antarctica
and actually going there. And having that experience made
me realize. Oh no, you cannot go around
doing this. Like, this is actually opposite
of what you're supposed to do, you know, you didn't.
And there's like, well, like, I probably shouldn't have gone to
entice. Okay, you know, really does this
like pop star. Like it's probably kind of
naughty to use those resources, burn, that jet fuel.
But like I've tried to sort of, I wrote this book and the
proceeds went to a couple of scholarships for people to do
the doctorates and climate. So, hopefully, there's a nice
sort of way of, yeah, going back, but it was so amazing.
I did really was the best five days of my entire life.
I will never do anything like it again.
It was so crazy from start to finish.
Like you get in this plane, which is like a military plane,
like an American Military pant, which looks at nothing like a
normal person who can like it's like exposed like wire and just
exact and so and you really do feel like you're like going to
space like you're departing any normal world that you've yeah.
Existed in before and then you just land on the ice.
There's a Runway. Like you're just the conditions
have to be perfect. I don't think God land on the
ice and it's totally light like it's two in the morning when we
arrived and it was bright Sun Lakes.
It doesn't get dark all summer. It's just a light because, you
know, obviously so close to the pole.
So it's just like these layers of insanity and you know, it's a
sunny day and you're looking at are I'm standing on a beach and
the water was glistening. And a scientist told me that
water is actually sub-freezing. It's colder than ice because it
has salt in it so it can. Wow, go colder.
Nice. Oh my God.
It feels like I could just dip
in. Yeah, did you touch it?
No. Yeah, I guess I could, but just
that contemplation of. Yeah, of the environment.
X written like not even thinking about because I think lots of
people ask me like, you know, did you like see climate change
firsthand? I was like, no.
It's because you can't as someone who's just visiting for
the first time. What you, what you see and what
you feel is just this Force, like, like nothing I've ever
felt. It's you are totally in, in
servitude to this. This like prison.
So, you know, this natural power and you spend your whole day
thinking about about what's happening outside and what will
be happening. And and and just trying to sort
of walk among that as like sensitively as you can but it
was insane like they were just I mean these huge seals
everywhere. Yeah, like half ton seals just
asleep. Oh my God, sort of walk past.
We did this crazy. I went out with these whale
scientists in this helicopter at like 10:00 at night again, full
sunshine and we flew over this sort of Channel and yeah, they
were looking for Ocker to it to sort of track and and and we
were like landed on the ice and just seeing these all collect
coming out of the water. You saw them.
Yeah, like as far away as you are.
No. Yeah.
It was insane. There's just the whole thing.
Yeah, it was. So, so spiritual and like there.
What was this? It sounds like nothing.
There's no sound because there's no dead quiet.
Well, there was no at the weather was good when I was
there was no wind but there's no.
There's nothing for it to blow through.
Yeah, they're trees. Right?
So the silence is like, no silence you've ever heard.
It almost has a sound. It's so quiet.
Like, you can hear your heartbeat.
You can hear the blood. No in your ears.
Wow. It's insane.
Oh, I can't tell anyone to go there.
It's like not, yeah, Beatrice tell me.
Even if you ever like, I don't know have agreed to become a
biologist and get a chance to go down that.
Definitely God. Okay, I believe.
Yeah, you really sold it. Yeah, that's right.
Thank you for inviting me here. So welcome.
This was a delight. This is fun.
I really wish we could do this too.
I'll be your friend forever and I am so excited for the new
season of euphoria. Thank you.
I'm so excited to see these new pho.
Solar power video coming. I have to get you along to a
shot. Yeah.
Oh my God. I'm good.
Thank you. Thank you so much.
I love you. Thanks for listening.
The 824 podcast is produced by us a 24 special.
Thanks to our editor Tom Wyatt and robot repair who composed
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