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Hey, and welcome back to the A 
24 podcast. 

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Andrew Garfield has been on a 
whirlwind press tour for our 

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latest movie, We Live In Time, 
and we couldn't let him go 

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without an appearance on the 
pod. 

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For today's episode, we brought 
Andrew together with fellow 

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Brit, an A24 leading man Harris 
Dickinson, who stars alongside 

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Nicole Kidman in Baby Girl This 
Christmas. 

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We hope you enjoy the 
conversation and make sure to 

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catch We Live In Time now 
playing in theatres nationwide. 

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I'm Andrew Garfield. 
I'm Harris Dickinson. 

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And this is. 
The Ace 24 podcast. 

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So. 
Hello. 

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So the problem is we've already 
begun talking. 

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So we were talking about 
surfing, we were talking about 

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age and how you how you wish 
that you've just been longing to

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be 40. 
And then we were talking about 

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press and we were talking about 
being publicly facing people in 

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some way and the trickiness of 
that. 

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And we were talking about jet 
lag and we were talking about 

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Los Angeles. 
Not going to disclose exactly 

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where we were talking about in 
Los Angeles. 

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So then what do you reckon? 
What's the most pertinent 

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pressing topic for you in this? 
Moment maybe age because I'm 

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intrigued to hear from you as 
well about why you made a face 

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when you when you disclosed your
age, it was a. 

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For the record, the context of 
that, I'd asked Harris how old 

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he was and he said 28. 
And I think in that moment, I 

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thought, I remember that. 
I remember 28 as if it was now. 

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And then when you asked me, I 
was like, I'm not 28 anymore. 

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So I think that's, I think 
that's what the face was in. 

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The face was fucking 41. 
But it's nice, you know, 

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because. 
Go on, because you you have an 

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idealisation I do. 
And I think I always have 

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because correct me if I'm wrong,
but don't you think as you get 

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older there's a sense of 
security with yourself? 

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And I always feel so unstable 
with AS. 

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Or maybe it's getting easier 
now, but like, know yourself 

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better maybe right is that? 
You like, This is why we're 

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here, right? 
You're going to reassure me that

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it gets better? 
Yeah. 

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No, I think. 
Yeah, I think so. 

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I I think so. 
I hope so. 

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Yeah. 
No, definitely. 

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But it. 
But it's kind of the more, you 

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know, the less, you know, kind 
of thing. 

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I thought I knew a lot more when
I was younger. 

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And now I realize how little I 
know, how little I knew. 

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And as my my consciousness 
expands and cracks open and my 

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heart breaks more and opens up 
more and real. 

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I just realized that how. 
Oh, yeah. 

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No, it's not job to know 
actually. 

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And I think there is some weird 
security in the insecurity. 

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I kind of have had to figure out
how to stand still within the 

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uncertainty of life because I 
think a lot of people say the 

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world has always been so 
uncertain and the world has 

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always been so fucked up. 
And, but I, I do feel like we're

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in a particularly difficult dark
time where where meaning and 

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purpose and community and 
eternal things, the eternal 

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things that actually are worth 
pursuing are far less valued and

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far less available. 
And I think about even between 

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when I was your age and and now,
I think it was probably a lot 

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easier for me as a late 20s 
person to be in the world. 

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Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And I think like now it's even. 

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It's even harder in a way, I 
imagine. 

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Yeah. 
I mean, I'm not going to sit 

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here and pretend it's like 
really difficult for me. 

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I'm more just mean like 
navigating your own sense of 

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self like you say, particularly 
in our world, which was one of 

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the other subjects that came up 
is public facing and I don't 

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have to deal with it as much as 
you presumably. 

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You know, you've had a wild 
trajectory and have been in this

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world a minute longer than me 
and have I probably had to 

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navigate more. 
So I'm kind of just 

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understanding what, what it is 
to to do this and to try and 

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hold on to something amongst it 
all. 

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But. 
Like hold on to your sense of 

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deep self, like who you are 
within a bunch of people and 

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culture and things telling you 
how to be or pulling you in 

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different directions. 
Yeah. 

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But then I also think about the 
age thing. 

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And I'm like, OK, well, each 
year that goes by understanding 

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even on a very basic level, my 
own behaviour or my own triggers

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or my own, you know, 
insecurities or whatever. 

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And in turn, it becomes easier 
to deal with those. 

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And that changes the way you 
move through the world, I think.

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And so yeah, there's always been
this weird like, can't wait till

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I'm 21, can't wait till I'm 30, 
can't wait till I'm 40. 

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But it's not because I'm like 
wishing away my. 

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Your life. 
My life, it's more like a Oh 

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yeah, maybe then I'll be like, 
I'll be in a really like settled

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place and I'll be, I'll be 
chilling. 

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Oh. 
I get it. 

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It's like trying to get to a 
place where you can really smell

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the roses, kind of enjoy moving,
and like not be consumed by 

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things that you know. 
And not be in my head and just 

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be like really present. 
And not missing out on. 

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So why not just do that? 
I know I I'm, I'm working on it,

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Andrew, I'm working. 
No, I know. 

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But it's not easy. 
It's really it's, it's not. 

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When I was 20, I responded to my
first brush with being an A 

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person that suddenly had a face 
that people thought they knew. 

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I remember I was talking about 
this with someone yesterday. 

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I was talking about with Luca, 
actually Luca Guadagnino. 

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I saw Luca yesterday because we 
just made a film together and we

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were talking about how to 
navigate, you know, because he 

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obviously he works with lots of 
young, young actors as well, 

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who, you know, he's seen lots of
different versions of that. 

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I think I was like, you know, 
what with all the Spider Man 

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stuff, I, I kind of had this 
allergic response. 

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I was like, I'm not, I know I'm 
not ready for this in a way. 

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I know I'm not ready for this 
level of scrutiny. 

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So I'm going to grow a really 
horrible beard and I'm gonna 

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wear really fucked up clothes. 
Yeah. 

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And I'm gonna you. 
Rejected it. 

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I'm gonna chase down paparazzi 
and try and talk to them. 

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What's the meaning of life I. 
Was just like what? 

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What are you like what? 
Why why did? 

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Why are you doing this Is. 
That how you responded. 

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Yeah, 28. 
It was like 262728 because I 

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think I was really scared. 
I think I was really like, I 

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don't want to lose the thing 
that matters, which is the self,

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but it's so hard not to sound 
like a complete wanker when you 

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talk about. 
Of course, of course. 

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But from the outside looking in 
like not to blow smoke, you 

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really do seem like you've 
managed to evade and retain that

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sense of self. 
So kudos to you, man, because 

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it's not easy. 
You know, I met, I met Tom 

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Cruise recently and he gave me 
like. 

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What did he? 
Yeah, what do you? 

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Think he gave me like 20 minutes
of just like wisdom. 

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I didn't really ask for it, but 
I was, I was really grateful for

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it. 
But I was really, I was really 

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grateful for it because he 
obviously sensed that I was like

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going through a bit of of a 
moment of trying to understand a

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certain way. 
And yeah, man, he's. 

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Have you met him? 
Yeah, first movie I did was with

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him. 
Which one? 

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It's called Lions for Lambs. 
Oh wow, it was him and Robert 

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your first. 
Film was with Tom. 

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Graham and Robert Redford and 
Meryl Streep when I was 23. 

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It's crazy. 
It was crazy. 

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But I but like, I, I really 23, 
I really like him. 

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I really enjoyed him and I and I
didn't have any scene. 

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All my scenes were with Redford.
But I met Tom on the press tour 

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afterwards and he was just 
nothing but kind and lovely and 

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funny and but yeah, but what did
he? 

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What was he? 
He was talking about press 

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because he was he was about to 
do another mission film or 

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something and he was talking 
about the press that they do for

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that and the training that he 
gives to all of his actors. 

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He was just trying to say about 
like retaining a sense of 

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control over certain situations 
and having fun and, and being 

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concise with messaging. 
But also I'm bad at that. 

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I just want to have a normal 
conversation. 

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So I'm like, I'm the worst for 
it. 

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You know, I'll just go on and on
and I'm like, well, let's just 

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have a real chat. 
And then they're like. 

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We've got 5 minutes, you've got 
to give me some amazing sound 

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bites and be on with your day 
like. 

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I had a therapist that told me I
was had this conversation with 

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and he was like, here's the 
thing, like because I, I 

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absolutely come from the same 
school of thought as you. 

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I'm just like, well, what are we
doing if we're not actually? 

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Having a real conversation. 
Like 2 human beings. 

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And if I can offer something 
that I remember being a young 

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person looking at like magazine 
profiles of actors or musicians 

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or artists or whatever and being
like so hungry for someone to 

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say something that made me feel 
seen. 

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And I think about that every 
time I go and do anything. 

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But I learned the hard way. 
And I'm sure you're learning as 

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well, which is like, there's 
only so much space emotion wise,

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consciousness wise in the 
current culture in like how 

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media is consumed. 
So if we give our full selves, 

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it's, it's like we can be 
cannibalized. 

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So I spoke to my, my therapist 
about it at the time, like years

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ago, whatever. 
And he was like, you know, you 

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just got to give little little 
bite size chunks, like not sound

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bites, like bite give, give 
yourself, but retain yourself 

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simultaneously. 
Like it's not welcome. 

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All of yourself is not welcome 
in certain publications in 

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certain, you know, TMZ are not 
going to give you a fair fucking

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shot at like trying to do some 
healing. 

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Yeah, through through what 
you're chatting about. 

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Like it's just not. 
It's not the platform. 

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It's like going to the hardware 
store for eggs. 

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It's like you're not going to 
find eggs in the, in the hammer 

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aisle. 
And at the same time, I, I 

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understand because it's like we 
want to change these spaces. 

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Actually, like, I think that 
it's like there's a longing for 

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real, real conversation, real 
healing, real vulnerability, 

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real honesty. 
And when we can actually go 

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there, you can feel the effect. 
Like, we'll do this. 

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And then like some other 
publication will take a little 

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piece and be like Andrew 
Garfield's losing his mind and 

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therapy. 
It's like doesn't like that's 

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the, that's the thing. 
But So what did what did Tom 

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say? 
His whole thing is like, look, 

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there's messaging, there's the 
fun element and then there's the

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relaxation of it. 
And I think that's what I've 

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taken away is, is the relaxation
of it. 

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The the relaxation of it. 
Sorry, like the stakes feel 

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higher than they actually are 
ultimately. 

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Like we're not saving lives. 
We're not, you know, moving 

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mountains with what we do. 
It's it's obviously storytelling

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and the arts is incredibly 
important and culturally, you 

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know, pushes things and changes 
conversations but and inspires 

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and distracts. 
But we also have to understand 

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what we're doing in comparison 
to other people's, like work, 

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you know, but also with him, so 
many people, you know, I've 

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worked, you know, when you work 
in the studios and stuff in 

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London or, or in the States or 
whatever. 

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And so many of the crew speak 
really highly of him, which I 

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think is always a good sign. 
Yeah, yeah, Yeah. 

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They love him. 
Yeah. 

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Wait, so you did you did that 
film with him when you were 23? 

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00:11:02,520 --> 00:11:04,680
So that I'm. 
Sorry, 2324 I think. 

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Yeah, that was your first job. 
My first movie. 1st movie I. 

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Was doing theatre before that 
right? 

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I'm going to disagree with you 
on something. 

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Go on, I dare you. 
Well, what you said about I, I 

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agree with you by also like. 
We're not saving lives. 

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Well, yeah, I mean, yeah. 
Like, I think about the amount 

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of times my life has been saved 
by a piece of music or by, you 

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know, a play or by. 
Really. 

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00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:36,200
Yeah, dude, of course, like just
as much as my brother's a lung 

226
00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:40,400
doctor in at the at a Hospital 
in London and. 

227
00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,800
That's not, you know, it's not 
this. 

228
00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,600
What we're doing right now and 
what he's doing right now. 

229
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:52,760
You know arguably is but like 
and we now we're in murky water 

230
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,720
Andrew that's. 
What we want to be. 

231
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:57,800
That's where we want to be 
swimming around in the dirt. 

232
00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:00,680
But, like, I mean, me and him 
talk about this a lot. 

233
00:12:00,680 --> 00:12:03,440
Look at what happens when a 
government cuts arts funding. 

234
00:12:03,440 --> 00:12:04,920
Yeah. 
The culture gets sick. 

235
00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:06,880
It gets even sicker than it 
already is. 

236
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:08,680
Yeah. 
And like, I mean that like, 

237
00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:10,520
sick, like soul sick. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

238
00:12:10,520 --> 00:12:12,480
And of course, I'm. 
You know, we don't. 

239
00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:15,760
We don't literally physically 
save lives, but I've, I've 

240
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,040
definitely had like dark times 
in my life, especially when I 

241
00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:21,160
was a teenager or like early 20s
or whatever. 

242
00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,680
And like, I remember like, going
through my first breakup, my 

243
00:12:23,680 --> 00:12:26,280
first like really big 
heartbreak, and I went and saw 

244
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,680
David O Russell's I Heart 
Huckabees. 

245
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:30,920
I've never seen that. 
OK, well, I've never. 

246
00:12:30,920 --> 00:12:31,280
Seen that? 
Yeah. 

247
00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:31,920
Well, now you. 
Yeah. 

248
00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:33,920
Oh yeah. 
But it's but it's one of those 

249
00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:38,480
films that you wouldn't expect 
was going to like stitch up a 

250
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:41,040
broken heart. 
And at the same time, I'm with 

251
00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,920
you. 
What about it made you the film?

252
00:12:43,920 --> 00:12:45,120
Yeah. 
What was it? 

253
00:12:45,120 --> 00:12:46,760
That or just as an experience, 
Why I? 

254
00:12:46,760 --> 00:12:48,520
Want you to see it. 
I want you to watch the film 

255
00:12:48,520 --> 00:12:50,360
because it's so like 
existential. 

256
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:53,440
It's philosophical, it's very 
funny, it's absurd. 

257
00:12:53,440 --> 00:12:57,560
It made me realize that I'm I 
was in being an indulgent fuck 

258
00:12:57,560 --> 00:13:00,200
basically, and that everyone 
goes through the same 

259
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:03,080
experience. 
It was a collective kind of like

260
00:13:03,080 --> 00:13:05,600
it was like tying me to 
something universal, which is 

261
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,000
heartbreakers. 
What the cost of being alive 

262
00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,040
like that's one of the costs. 
I'm going to talk about baby 

263
00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:13,120
girl. 
Is that right? 

264
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:16,800
Oh, sure. 
Anyway, so we haven't talked 

265
00:13:16,800 --> 00:13:20,120
about it. 
I absolutely love it and I love 

266
00:13:20,120 --> 00:13:21,440
you in it. 
Genuinely. 

267
00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:23,280
I think it was so fucking 
brilliant, and you're doing 

268
00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,280
something that's really quite 
mysterious, really sensitive and

269
00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:28,960
nuanced. 
How do you feel about 

270
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:29,960
compliments? 
How do you? 

271
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:34,000
I'm not very good at them, but 
is anyone and maybe some people 

272
00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,000
are great, might be are you? 
It depends. 

273
00:13:37,040 --> 00:13:39,920
It depends. 
I, I I'm working on that, just 

274
00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,600
absorbing. 
Do you know what I think? 

275
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:45,880
If I trust and respect the 
person's opinion, then I'm I can

276
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,600
really absorb it and be grateful
for it. 

277
00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:51,560
But yeah, if it's just like. 
You're a mate. 

278
00:13:51,880 --> 00:13:53,480
Oh no, you know that that kind 
of thing. 

279
00:13:53,480 --> 00:13:56,760
It's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But but thank you. 

280
00:13:56,800 --> 00:14:01,280
No, man, it's, it's, it's really
like properly beautiful, tender,

281
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:06,400
vulnerable, powerful, funny 
work. 

282
00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,920
And like, I watched that film 
and I'm like, this is an 

283
00:14:08,920 --> 00:14:10,600
important film. 
That feels like an important 

284
00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,120
film to me. 
It feels like a a film about 

285
00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:17,320
liberation, talking about self 
ownership, a film about the 

286
00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:21,920
integration of the parts of us 
that we've shamed or have been 

287
00:14:21,920 --> 00:14:25,440
shamed by the culture. 
And it feels like an exploration

288
00:14:25,440 --> 00:14:27,720
of what it is to be a human 
being, an exploration of love, 

289
00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:31,600
an exploration of lust of of 
sexuality. 

290
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:36,000
And it feels like it's kind of 
shedding light on certain parts 

291
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,640
of our psyches and our 
consciousness that if those 

292
00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,840
parts are kept in the shadows, 
they will become something quite

293
00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:43,600
dangerous. 
So there is healing in it. 

294
00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:45,360
I do think it's kind of life 
saving work. 

295
00:14:45,680 --> 00:14:48,600
Not to that that you'll probably
like you're blowing smoke now 

296
00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,040
and fuck you. 
But like I, I do feel that way 

297
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:53,640
of course in the conversation 
about it. 

298
00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:56,920
I'm sure you get to have a lot 
of fun by by keeping it light, I

299
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,640
imagine. 
Yeah, I, I guess like on the 

300
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,320
surface it could, it could look 
anything other than deep and 

301
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:04,720
profound, like all the things 
you say. 

302
00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:06,960
But I really, I, I, I believe 
those things too. 

303
00:15:06,960 --> 00:15:09,440
I think Helena has done such a 
beautiful job with it. 

304
00:15:09,440 --> 00:15:11,600
And it is about liberation, like
you say. 

305
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:14,520
And it is so much about what 
happens if you don't allow 

306
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:16,120
yourself to be liberated 
properly. 

307
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:20,280
And it's like essentially two 
people finding solace in their 

308
00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:24,600
own sort of insecurity as well 
and figuring out how to. 

309
00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:27,080
Yeah, wounded bits. 
Yeah, wounded bits, and how to 

310
00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,680
play with that and how to get 
through that together. 

311
00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:32,160
It's scary doing that kind of 
material, man, don't you think? 

312
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:33,320
Like I. 
Was watching that. 

313
00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:37,680
I was like, yeah, that's that's 
real. 

314
00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:41,040
It's like, and and when you said
that, it made me think about how

315
00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:43,520
my some of my favorite moments 
were. 

316
00:15:43,760 --> 00:15:45,760
I think you even say it at one 
point, or it's like, no, we'd 

317
00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,640
like two kids playing. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

318
00:15:48,760 --> 00:15:51,000
It's like, oh fuck, man. 
That's like, and like the kind 

319
00:15:51,000 --> 00:15:55,000
of like you trying, you guys 
trying not to laugh at the 

320
00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:58,200
beginning of like entering like 
the playpen. 

321
00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:01,840
And it's like it, it is like two
kids playing and it's like two 

322
00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,200
kids going down into their own 
woundedness and trying to figure

323
00:16:05,200 --> 00:16:08,960
out making it beautiful or 
making it like, OK, or it's 

324
00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:11,920
like, like taking the shame and 
like turning it into like 

325
00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:16,400
something that is actually like 
allowed and healing through 

326
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:18,320
that. 
Which also allowed me to, to 

327
00:16:18,320 --> 00:16:21,560
show the embarrassment of 
performance as well, which is, 

328
00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,120
which is like, because it's, so 
it's about performance in a way.

329
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:27,840
It's about, you know, 
performative sex, It's about 

330
00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,600
performative role play. 
It's about, you know, desire and

331
00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:37,200
how we succumb to someone else 
who's desire and wishes and all 

332
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:39,600
of that. 
And so there's parts of it where

333
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,760
he's embarrassed. 
And so am I, you know, and, and,

334
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,160
and that is helpful because you 
can, you can live in your 

335
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:50,800
embarrassment. 
And, and it's embarrassing to, 

336
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,520
to act in front of people. 
It's embarrassing to. 

337
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:55,360
It's awful. 
This is embarrassing. 

338
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:57,080
It's. 
Embarrassing but then imagine, 

339
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,000
imagine adding like a fake 
circumstance onto it and A and a

340
00:17:01,000 --> 00:17:03,800
pretend person. 
It's a whole other thing. 

341
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:06,160
I'll I'll I'll put it back onto 
you because I want to talk about

342
00:17:06,160 --> 00:17:09,760
your film as well, which broke 
me and and my partner when we 

343
00:17:09,760 --> 00:17:12,200
watched it. 
It was really moving and you and

344
00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,920
Florence just done such 
beautiful work in that and it 

345
00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:16,839
and it and it blew us away, 
honestly. 

346
00:17:16,839 --> 00:17:21,359
But I so much of that was was 
about vulnerability and and 

347
00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:26,680
about tragedy, but also levity. 
And I don't know how you managed

348
00:17:26,680 --> 00:17:30,200
to navigate the dance between 
the two, but you did it so well.

349
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,000
And maybe that was your director
too. 

350
00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:36,440
But you, you guys really, 
because it's hard with a film 

351
00:17:36,440 --> 00:17:43,560
that starts out already knowing 
the sort of end, yeah, drama, I 

352
00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,360
guess, or the end result. 
And you managed to, you guys 

353
00:17:47,360 --> 00:17:51,120
managed to really weave in this 
beautiful, like, playfulness as 

354
00:17:51,120 --> 00:17:52,200
well. 
Thanks, man. 

355
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:57,600
And genuine love and genuine, 
like, fun with each other 

356
00:17:57,600 --> 00:18:00,840
despite the the darkness. 
So how did you do that? 

357
00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:03,160
And do you find that 
embarrassing to be so 

358
00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:06,480
vulnerable? 
But same, same as you, like one 

359
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:09,600
of us will answer a question at 
some point, but I felt the same 

360
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,960
with you and Nicole, like, like 
the love was so palpable between

361
00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,560
you both. 
Like when she's like, I don't 

362
00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:17,280
want you to be your mind, your 
mind. 

363
00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,760
I don't want you to be with me. 
Like it was so full of desire 

364
00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,480
and I don't know, and genuine 
love. 

365
00:18:23,480 --> 00:18:26,080
And at the end when you're with 
Antonio Banderas and you're just

366
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:29,880
kind of head to head, like you 
were in the club with whatever 

367
00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,280
the guy was you were dancing in 
that nightclub scene. 

368
00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,480
It was like so many wonderful. 
Like, anyway, I will answer, try

369
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:38,160
and answer your question. 
I don't know. 

370
00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,960
I feel like I read it and I was 
like, it's really well written. 

371
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:48,160
And now it's dependent on if, if
the two people in it get along 

372
00:18:48,160 --> 00:18:50,640
or really, and if they want to 
work in a similar way and if 

373
00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:52,680
they can kind of like match each
other's courage. 

374
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:57,080
I, I mean, I knew Florence was 
really talented. 

375
00:18:57,080 --> 00:18:59,200
Do you know Florence? 
Yeah, a little bit, yeah. 

376
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,440
You hadn't worked with her, just
just met her and. 

377
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:02,960
I and I hadn't met her either. 
Oh. 

378
00:19:03,280 --> 00:19:05,120
You hadn't met her. 
I just seen her work. 

379
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,520
I'd just seen Lady Macbeth, 
Midsommar and Little Women and 

380
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,960
all the rest. 
And I thought she's brilliant, 

381
00:19:11,120 --> 00:19:12,440
but you know, you just don't 
know. 

382
00:19:12,440 --> 00:19:14,640
And then we had like a Zoom call
and that was that. 

383
00:19:14,640 --> 00:19:18,840
And then we just discovered that
we did want the same things. 

384
00:19:18,840 --> 00:19:22,280
We wanted to travel as deeply as
possible and we wanted to have 

385
00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:23,880
as much fun as possible and we 
wanted. 

386
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,040
And, you know, she's very 
confident in her own skin in a 

387
00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,960
lot of ways and very, I don't 
know, in her body, in her 

388
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:33,880
feeling in her. 
And I think like, but this, this

389
00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:35,680
would have been the same with 
any actor I was working with. 

390
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:40,080
Like, my only intention was 
like, create a space where she 

391
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,440
feels really safe. 
And then and, and I hope that 

392
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:44,360
she creates, helps create a 
space. 

393
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,760
Well, I've got to create a space
for myself to feel safe first 

394
00:19:46,760 --> 00:19:48,360
and foremost. 
I can't depend on anyone else 

395
00:19:48,360 --> 00:19:53,240
doing that because I I'm sure 
you've been on jobs where the 

396
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,000
where you don't feel safe to 
offer. 

397
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,840
Your full self. 
And then you've got to figure 

398
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:00,320
out a way of still delivering 
and like soothing the nervous 

399
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,000
system enough to be able to go 
soothing. 

400
00:20:02,000 --> 00:20:04,920
The nervous system, I like that.
Yeah, like, you know, it's a 

401
00:20:04,920 --> 00:20:07,200
good doubt because. 
It really is like it's not even 

402
00:20:07,200 --> 00:20:11,160
if you try and be quote UN quote
fine, right, or act normal, 

403
00:20:11,400 --> 00:20:13,720
there's something scientific 
going on. 

404
00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,120
Yeah, that's it's like pre 
verbal. 

405
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,880
It's like some pre verbal like 
biological response or maybe 

406
00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,600
even epigenetic. 
Who the fuck knows? 

407
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:21,800
If you're uncomfortable or 
stressed. 

408
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:26,040
Or yeah, whatever it's like. 
And I think like a, a director 

409
00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,920
or and fellow actors and you 
know, whoever is running the 

410
00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:33,000
show, you want to create an 
environment where everyone has 

411
00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,480
the potential to feel really 
safe and everyone has the 

412
00:20:35,480 --> 00:20:37,920
potential there and to play 
really like, like kids. 

413
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:40,920
I don't know. 
For me, I think what one of the 

414
00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,080
reasons why I love doing what we
do is it it's a kind of 

415
00:20:45,080 --> 00:20:49,960
opportunity to go back into that
very pure space and offer 

416
00:20:49,960 --> 00:20:53,760
something very creatively pure 
from the there that purity of 

417
00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:58,800
playing as as children really. 
And and again, it's what is so 

418
00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,200
evident and what you and Nicole 
created and what your director 

419
00:21:01,200 --> 00:21:03,120
created as well. 
Yeah, yeah. 

420
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,640
So that was the intention with. 
And I and I knew I was the, the 

421
00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:08,040
slightly senior member of that 
cast. 

422
00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:13,200
And I was like, OK, I've got a. 
Being 4140. 141 years old, 41 

423
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,560
years old, never forget. 
And so I knew I needed to set 

424
00:21:16,560 --> 00:21:19,120
the tone with that. 
And, and Florence just met me 

425
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:23,440
there and the humour I think 
came, the writing was just 

426
00:21:23,440 --> 00:21:26,320
really, really good. 
And I think we're, I think 

427
00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,360
British, British people are 
pretty good at gallows humour. 

428
00:21:29,360 --> 00:21:32,520
And we're, we're just good at 
undercutting the seriousness of,

429
00:21:32,680 --> 00:21:35,880
of life and the, the, the, the 
kind of torture of life. 

430
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,840
And, and John as well, He's an 
Irish kind of poetic soul. 

431
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,120
The, our director. 
And like, so I was always trying

432
00:21:41,120 --> 00:21:45,680
to find the little like line of 
gold and the crack of, you know,

433
00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,760
the, the heartache of a of a 
moment or anything like that. 

434
00:21:50,360 --> 00:21:52,400
Had you played a dad before? 
Had you done? 

435
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,440
That, yeah, I had. 
I'd played a young dad in a film

436
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,560
called 99 Home. 
Oh, yeah, of course, Yeah, yeah,

437
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:59,840
of course. 
But yeah, a very young dad. 

438
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:01,400
So this this felt quite 
different. 

439
00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:04,400
That scene where you're trying 
to, I won't spoil it, but when 

440
00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:07,680
you're trying to like talk to 
her about certain issues. 

441
00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,920
And Oh yeah, yeah. 
It's like, and then you just 

442
00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,040
snap it away. 
To her it's like, go away, piss 

443
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:13,720
off. 
Just piss. 

444
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:18,360
Off that must yeah. 
I can't even imagine. 

445
00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:23,040
That but I was going to ask you 
the same thing about how you you

446
00:22:23,040 --> 00:22:27,680
and Nicole created and and your 
director created the places you 

447
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,640
guys have to go to even more, 
you know, vulnerable in a way, 

448
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,640
like more kind of taboo and 
naked and yeah. 

449
00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:39,240
I think we just had a good, good
energy together, a good bond. 

450
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:43,760
I think we got along very well. 
I think we felt comfortable in 

451
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,160
each other's presence, you know,
and that that happened early on.

452
00:22:47,440 --> 00:22:50,680
We had a really good intimacy 
coordinator, Lizzie Talbot, who 

453
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,000
had worked with before, and 
Helena as well. 

454
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,600
You know, Helena comes from a 
theatre background and really, 

455
00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:01,560
really playful, you know, wanted
to mess up the order of things a

456
00:23:01,560 --> 00:23:05,200
little bit. 
And I think Nicole LED that as 

457
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,960
well. 
Like she is incredibly brave as 

458
00:23:08,960 --> 00:23:13,200
a performer and unashamed to 
just go anywhere. 

459
00:23:13,960 --> 00:23:19,240
And that really once you someone
allows other people to see that 

460
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:23,680
or sets the tone of that, then I
think the rest of it was super 

461
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,520
easy. 
I think the main thing was 

462
00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:31,680
trying not to be cliche in a 
genre that has been done in many

463
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,440
different ways. 
For you within that character 

464
00:23:34,440 --> 00:23:36,960
you mean. 
Yeah, for me, but also the 

465
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,320
material and Helena obviously, 
you know, had her writing in 

466
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,360
place in the script was was was 
beautiful and nuanced. 

467
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:50,440
And but you still have a common 
understanding or short circuit 

468
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,600
to how something should be done 
or said. 

469
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:59,520
And you have to constantly think
about what it is to break those 

470
00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:02,240
things. 
Because even if you're thinking 

471
00:24:02,240 --> 00:24:06,400
differently or exploring new 
terrain, you still have the 

472
00:24:07,040 --> 00:24:09,640
archetypical landscape in your 
mind. 

473
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:14,040
I feel I do at least even even 
from from everything we've been 

474
00:24:14,040 --> 00:24:19,040
taught about sex and, you know, 
domination and relationships. 

475
00:24:19,040 --> 00:24:22,600
So I think it was best start and
talking about it and trying to, 

476
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:26,200
you know, navigate that in a way
that felt new. 

477
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,080
But yeah, I find that stuff 
really, really vulnerable, like 

478
00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:33,800
tapping into something genuine 
and like loving. 

479
00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:37,480
I find really like, I get really
anxious about it. 

480
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,720
Like I come away from it feeling
like like almost like a panic 

481
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,880
attack level of like. 
You mean like revealing that on 

482
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,440
camera or just in life? 
Yeah. 

483
00:24:46,440 --> 00:24:48,360
Just in life, just on camera. 
Sorry. 

484
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:49,560
Just on. 
Just in scenes. 

485
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,080
And yeah, yeah. 
Oh, interesting. 

486
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,920
I'm a very open book in real 
life. 

487
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:57,720
I'm very loving and I'm, I think
I allow myself to be loved, 

488
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,640
whatever, but I'm in scenes when
it with sex and vulnerability 

489
00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,440
and I don't know why. 
It just gets me, man. 

490
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,120
I'm like, it's difficult. 
It's difficult. 

491
00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:09,720
Yeah, yeah. 
That's so interesting. 

492
00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:12,280
Yeah, I don't know what it is. 
But that sounds a bit if it's, 

493
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,720
if you're cool with it in life, 
then it's like maybe you're just

494
00:25:15,720 --> 00:25:18,360
like just want to. 
I don't want to sell this I. 

495
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:20,000
Don't want to sell this. 
Yeah, right, right. 

496
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:21,440
Right, right. 
That sounds kind of healthy. 

497
00:25:21,440 --> 00:25:22,400
That's kind of healthy. 
Yeah. 

498
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,480
Yeah, maybe. 
That doesn't sound terrible. 

499
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,600
Wait, so when? 
When? 

500
00:25:25,600 --> 00:25:29,080
Because we met at a screening of
Finch's last movie. 

501
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:30,080
Oh, that's right. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

502
00:25:30,120 --> 00:25:31,720
Yeah. 
Were you doing the film then, or

503
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:32,880
were you because you were with 
Florence I? 

504
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,760
Forget, I think we I think we 
had just finished. 

505
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:36,440
You just finished. 
Yeah, we had just finished. 

506
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
You stay in touch with him then,

507
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:39,440
obviously. 
David. 

508
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:41,840
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, I love him. 

509
00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:45,280
I mean, that film you guys did 
was like a such a Mon. 

510
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:49,160
I mean, is such a monumental 
sort of moment in cinema. 

511
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,880
I've watched it so many times 
and that, I mean, I'm sure you'd

512
00:25:54,120 --> 00:25:57,600
get asked about it all the time,
but that clip of or the scene of

513
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:01,280
you smashing and the the 
keyboard and it's just the most 

514
00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,360
incredible monologue. 
Yeah, it's great. 

515
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,200
It's so good. 
How many times did you do that? 

516
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,840
I Remember Me and Jesse watching
the premiere. 

517
00:26:11,920 --> 00:26:13,840
I think we're, I figure I think 
we're in New York and the New 

518
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:16,440
York Film Festival. 
We were, I was like 26, I think.

519
00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,360
And we were both just like 
looking at each other like, it's

520
00:26:19,360 --> 00:26:20,240
bad, right? 
It's bad. 

521
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,320
We're like, this is a bad movie 
and we're bad in it, right? 

522
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,280
And we were both like, yeah, 
yeah, it's bad, we're bad, it's 

523
00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,480
bad, it's terrible. 
And everyone was. 

524
00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:28,560
Like reassured. 
Yeah, we were just trying to 

525
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,080
like get there before anyone 
else got there. 

526
00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,800
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
So we had no concept that it was

527
00:26:32,800 --> 00:26:36,360
going to be a film that that 
people would reference. 

528
00:26:36,720 --> 00:26:40,000
He'd made great films before. 
David Yeah, yeah, of course. 

529
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:41,720
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It was more just like us. 

530
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:42,920
We, we. 
We. 

531
00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,120
We ruined it. 
Yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, 

532
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:47,320
yeah yeah and. 
We just couldn't see past our 

533
00:26:47,320 --> 00:26:50,280
own bullshit, really. 
So yeah. 

534
00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:53,240
So we come to it honestly. 
But yeah. 

535
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,960
But the making of it was fucking
great. 

536
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,800
We had so much fun. 
Yeah, it was just. 

537
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:58,760
Yeah. 
It was bliss. 

538
00:26:58,880 --> 00:26:59,400
It was bliss. 
I've. 

539
00:26:59,400 --> 00:27:01,640
Watched all of the making. 
Oh, really? 

540
00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:03,760
Yeah, all of it. 
I I loved making. 

541
00:27:03,960 --> 00:27:05,400
Me too. 
They don't really do that 

542
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:07,680
anymore and they don't have like
directors comment. 

543
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:10,040
I think it's like a directors 
and actors commentary as well. 

544
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,800
You can sometimes find it on the
Blu rays, Yeah, but like you can

545
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,600
get the yeah, Blu-ray ones. 
On, like, actual media, yeah. 

546
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:19,560
You should push to do it on. 
Everything. 

547
00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,720
Yeah, I love I I especially love
directors and actors like Ben 

548
00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,520
Affleck doing actors commentary 
on like, what was the film he 

549
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:27,040
did? 
Was it Armageddon or something? 

550
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,120
It's absolutely. 
He's just like I was at 

551
00:27:29,120 --> 00:27:30,160
Armageddon or something, 
something. 

552
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:32,040
I forget what it was. 
He's just, it's a Michael Bay 

553
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:35,240
film and he's just absolutely 
savaging the thing. 

554
00:27:35,320 --> 00:27:38,120
One that he, one that he acted. 
Yeah, he's like undercutting all

555
00:27:38,120 --> 00:27:40,400
of like the logic of like I. 
Like that? 

556
00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:43,200
Was it Armageddon? 
Yeah, I think it was. 

557
00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,400
Yeah, I think it was Armageddon.
But it's so fucking funny. 

558
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,440
And he's just like, and he's 
like, yeah, we need miners to go

559
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:50,720
to space. 
And like, yeah, only miners can 

560
00:27:50,720 --> 00:27:52,400
figure out how to fucking figure
this out. 

561
00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:54,120
Like, whatever it was. 
That's great. 

562
00:27:54,120 --> 00:27:57,680
And it is really, really funny. 
So yeah, bring back directors 

563
00:27:57,680 --> 00:28:00,360
and actors. 
Commentary is is the vote. 

564
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:01,920
Scorsese's done a lot, hasn't 
he? 

565
00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:02,960
He always. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, dude, I. 

566
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:06,920
Forgot you worked with him as 
well, yeah. 

567
00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,600
But but with with David on that 
day, we shot, I forget the 

568
00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,440
amount of takes we did on that 
particular setup, but but he was

569
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,480
very cool. 
He started on my coverage. 

570
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:18,880
Really. 
Yeah, he was like, Andrew's 

571
00:28:18,880 --> 00:28:21,160
going to get tired, so like 
let's he's going to lose his 

572
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,160
voice and blah, blah, blah. 
And we didn't know how the scene

573
00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,800
was going to be played. 
You know, he was very open. 

574
00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,760
He was he would get very 
particular with certain things 

575
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,840
and certain scenes, but the only
scene he got that way with me 

576
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:37,600
was in the scene that that's 
intercut with where me and Jesse

577
00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:39,520
are in our litigation across the
table. 

578
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,440
When they're asking you how much
were your shares diluted, how 

579
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:44,000
much were theirs, how much the 
blah, blah, blah. 

580
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,600
I just he was like, I don't need
a blink and I and I just want 

581
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,280
you to stay really still. 
I just want you to stare Jesse 

582
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:52,520
in the eye and just like be 
completely fucking like 

583
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:54,600
piercing. 
I don't, I want no acting. 

584
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:56,480
I want no nothing. 
I just want you to be fucking 

585
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,320
like simple in there. 
Be very, very still. 

586
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:03,320
But otherwise he would kind of 
let me free form a bit and that 

587
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:06,320
he was just waiting to see what 
how I wanted to play it. 

588
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:10,560
Oh, no, that I tell a lie. 
I had like on on the walk up 

589
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,880
from the finally realizing what 
happened to like looking outside

590
00:29:13,880 --> 00:29:16,440
and seeing him and like walking.
He was like, I have a track set 

591
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,080
up and I was like, but I want I 
might want to stop here and stop

592
00:29:19,080 --> 00:29:20,080
there. 
He's like, no, no, no, you're 

593
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,000
not stopping. 
You're just on the fucking move.

594
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,760
You're you're the freight 
trainers left the station. 

595
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,680
I'm like, OK, I'm going to trust
that he was like the track is. 

596
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:29,400
I promise you this shot is going
to be. 

597
00:29:29,600 --> 00:29:31,160
The track is it the? 
Track. 

598
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,160
Don't fuck with the track. 
I love it. 

599
00:29:33,160 --> 00:29:34,680
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's actually, I thought

600
00:29:34,840 --> 00:29:35,920
that. 
Go here. 

601
00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,760
It's like, Oh yeah, you want me 
to build a track that goes like 

602
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,760
a Figure 8 around the no, not 
trackers. 

603
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:43,440
And also trust me, like I'm 
taking care of you. 

604
00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400
It's going to take you like a 
fucking spear. 

605
00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,640
You're just, you're a fucking 
spear right now. 

606
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:52,120
And like, even when Justin says 
he's wired in, I, I wanted to be

607
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,640
like, I'm sorry. 
I wanted to stop and say in 

608
00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:56,680
rehearsals, I would be like, 
what's that? 

609
00:29:57,280 --> 00:29:58,480
And Deb was like, no, you don't 
stop. 

610
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,040
You don't stop. 
You don't even like, look at 

611
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:01,480
him. 
You're getting to that fucking 

612
00:30:01,480 --> 00:30:03,440
laptop and you're going to 
destroy that fucking laptop. 

613
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:04,760
That's it. 
That's what you can think about.

614
00:30:04,760 --> 00:30:08,440
And it was just like, you know, 
a director like that, where you 

615
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:11,200
go, we get to surrender. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 

616
00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:12,280
It's. 
The best, right? 

617
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:13,480
I'll trust. 
All. 

618
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:14,920
Yeah. 
Well, it is a little bit like 

619
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:20,840
that Dom sub kind of dynamic. 
It's like, I think at best 

620
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:24,360
working with the director where 
you can just completely, yeah, 

621
00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,680
give yourself over. 
Yeah, it's a dream. 

622
00:30:26,880 --> 00:30:29,920
And access your power, access 
your vulnerability and know that

623
00:30:29,920 --> 00:30:34,320
you're somehow protected like, 
but it felt like you guys must 

624
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,640
have had to have that on on this
film. 

625
00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:40,080
Yeah, yeah. 
I mean, I'm always a little I, 

626
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:43,360
I, I have trust problems with 
with directors. 

627
00:30:43,440 --> 00:30:46,280
I'll, I'll say that, you know, I
don't mind saying that. 

628
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,120
And you know, me and Helena 
have, I've spoken about it a lot

629
00:30:49,120 --> 00:30:51,440
since. 
And it's, it's normally just to 

630
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,560
do with like what you say, like,
oh, you're going to take care of

631
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,760
me, you know, am I in, like good
hands with me? 

632
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,040
Exactly. 
Because the worst fear is like, 

633
00:31:01,280 --> 00:31:02,680
your thing running away from 
you. 

634
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:04,720
You know, I'm probably a bit of 
a control freak and. 

635
00:31:04,800 --> 00:31:05,920
I'm the same. 
In that way. 

636
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:10,760
So yeah, it's taken a while to 
like, I understand how to do 

637
00:31:10,760 --> 00:31:12,920
that. 
But yeah, Helena's, she's an 

638
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:14,800
actor as well, you know? 
She right? 

639
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,280
She was part of Ivor van Hove's 
theatre company. 

640
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,560
She raised, of course. 
Yeah, I think that changed it. 

641
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,000
And that gave a different 
dynamic. 

642
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,440
But, yeah, sometimes it's not 
there, even with actors, right? 

643
00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Sometimes you do something and 
you don't feel. 

644
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:29,040
No, of course you don't feel the
safety. 

645
00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:30,880
And you're like, oh God, like. 
Oh, it's awful. 

646
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:32,120
What's going to happen now you 
know? 

647
00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:33,440
Yeah. 
It's really, really awful. 

648
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:35,880
That's what I I and it's like 
there's nothing. 

649
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:38,560
There's no worse feeling. 
It's like it, you really do feel

650
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,920
like you're naked in a way that 
is not safe and not like being 

651
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:43,400
held and protected. 
Yeah. 

652
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:45,840
Did you feel that on? 
Like how do you feel with Ruben 

653
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:50,000
on Triangle of Sadness? 
Reuben's the same. 

654
00:31:50,000 --> 00:31:53,960
I think Reuben knows exactly 
what he wants, similar to maybe 

655
00:31:54,120 --> 00:31:56,040
what it sounds like with with 
David Fincher. 

656
00:31:56,040 --> 00:31:59,480
But he does a lot of takes and 
he has a really strong idea of 

657
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,600
how things should go. 
But he's really open. 

658
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,280
And, you know, I think when you 
love someone's work that much 

659
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,320
and you've seen them prove it 
over and over and over, you can 

660
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:14,080
just surrender to it, I think. 
And that's, like, so much easier

661
00:32:14,080 --> 00:32:16,560
when you can step into an 
environment and it's like, you 

662
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,080
know, kind of predetermined in a
way. 

663
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,760
As long as you show up and you 
do your work and you allow 

664
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:26,200
yourself to be directed in the 
right way, then hopefully it all

665
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,280
goes to plan. 
But I really liked doing a lot 

666
00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,760
of takes. 
I don't know how you feel about 

667
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,320
it. 
I love it, yeah. 

668
00:32:32,320 --> 00:32:33,760
I did. 
I really, really loved it. 

669
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:37,280
And I think particularly with 
someone like Reuben or David, 

670
00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:39,480
you're like, OK, there's method 
to this madness. 

671
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:41,320
It's not just like, you don't 
know what the fuck you're doing.

672
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,040
Yeah, well, I remember. 
I remember like we were 

673
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:48,480
shooting, there's a scene where 
I, I arrive in Palo Alto like 

674
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:53,040
covered in, in rain and like 
Justin Timberlake's in the house

675
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,960
or like Sean Parker is in the 
house that I'm renting for Mark.

676
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:57,960
And I'm like, what the fuck is 
going on? 

677
00:32:57,960 --> 00:32:59,240
They forgot to pick me up from 
the airport. 

678
00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,960
This is like, it was a big like 
confrontation scene between me 

679
00:33:01,960 --> 00:33:04,200
and Justin. 
And we shot it over the course 

680
00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:08,520
of a couple of days. 
And I remember on my coverage, 

681
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,600
we got to like take 19 or 20, 
something like that. 

682
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:13,720
And I remember like, just like 
taking a little break and 

683
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:15,280
walking around the outside of 
the set. 

684
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,440
And I overheard David say to his
video videographer guy, like who

685
00:33:19,440 --> 00:33:21,560
was like dealing with all the 
digital takes or whatever. 

686
00:33:21,560 --> 00:33:23,800
He was like, okay, first print, 
take 19. 

687
00:33:23,880 --> 00:33:29,360
Please delete takes one through 
18 what I was like. 

688
00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:31,600
Delete. 
There's got to be something. 

689
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,480
There's got to be like something
that's like watchable within 

690
00:33:34,480 --> 00:33:37,200
takes 11 to 18. 
It was brutal. 

691
00:33:37,200 --> 00:33:37,960
Delete. 
Yeah. 

692
00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:38,680
Delete. 
Gone. 

693
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:40,920
Dead. 
Surely that was performance. 

694
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:42,720
No, I don't think so. 
Surely. 

695
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:45,400
Maybe he is that smart where he 
was just probably trying to fuck

696
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,320
with me, but I don't think so. 
I don't think so. 

697
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,280
I think he's just like legit 
knows what feels right to him. 

698
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,560
He knows he's like, oh, that. 
No, everything in that take was 

699
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:57,640
better than the previous ones. 
So so more often than not you 

700
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:00,280
you found that the later takes 
were the ones he used or. 

701
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:03,120
I don't know. 
I'm not sure, but I, I just kind

702
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,120
of like, I don't know, nothing 
better than going home and being

703
00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:07,520
like, why? 
At least I'm not worrying about 

704
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,360
having done the scene in a 
different way. 

705
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:10,719
Yeah, I put everything on the 
table. 

706
00:34:10,719 --> 00:34:12,520
Yeah, exactly. 
Left it all on the field. 

707
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,719
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And the same with the smashing 

708
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:17,239
of the laptop. 
I think we did like 2025 takes 

709
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:19,960
of, of that. 
God, what bliss. 

710
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:21,639
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Like it's just like, and the 

711
00:34:21,639 --> 00:34:24,000
writing is, you know, it's the 
best. 

712
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,520
A lot of people would get tired 
on like there was some, some 

713
00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,760
actors, I won't say, but yeah, 
yeah, you know, they, they got 

714
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,520
tired of it and it yeah, I was 
like, yeah, yeah. 

715
00:34:32,679 --> 00:34:34,920
Charged by. 
It we, we were young, you, you 

716
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,360
were young when you did. 
I was your age when I was doing 

717
00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:39,239
it. 
And it was like all of us on 

718
00:34:39,239 --> 00:34:41,440
social network. 
We we were all just these young 

719
00:34:41,840 --> 00:34:46,400
kids who were just like eager to
please and eager to play and 

720
00:34:46,800 --> 00:34:51,159
work on of script. 
That was legit brilliant. 

721
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,880
I think about Triangle sadness. 
I think about the opening of 

722
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,280
that and how it's like it feels 
like 3 different films that I 

723
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:57,960
love that film. 
So it's one of my favorite films

724
00:34:57,960 --> 00:35:00,760
the last like 10 years, I think.
Oh man, it really is. 

725
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,360
And I think weirdly, 
particularly my favorite part is

726
00:35:03,360 --> 00:35:06,720
the is your relationship with 
your partner. 

727
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:11,000
Ya, ya or yeah, the at the 
beginning, at the beginning. 

728
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,880
OK, Yeah. 
Yeah, and how like it's it felt 

729
00:35:14,960 --> 00:35:18,200
like to real. 
It felt like the conversation 

730
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,680
about the check it at dinner at 
the beginning. 

731
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,520
It was just like 2 fucking. 
It was just like and seeing you 

732
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:26,680
processing going. 
Oh no, you're gaslighting. 

733
00:35:26,720 --> 00:35:27,800
You know exactly what you're 
doing. 

734
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:31,160
And now I'm doubting that you 
did the thing that I think I'm 

735
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,440
pretty sure you did. 
You're making me go mad. 

736
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:37,400
Am I mad or are you making me 
mad or like and that and I'm 

737
00:35:37,400 --> 00:35:39,960
also like revealed as cheap and 
I'm yeah, I don't make as much 

738
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:42,800
fucking money as you, but also 
like it's like shame on top of 

739
00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,040
shame on top of rage on top of 
shame on top of rage on top of 

740
00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,920
just like wanting honesty and 
truth and just like, can we just

741
00:35:47,920 --> 00:35:50,440
like. 
Yeah, be, be together. 

742
00:35:51,360 --> 00:35:54,800
Like it was so well studied, 
like you you like stopping the 

743
00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,160
elevator? 
It just felt like I'd had that 

744
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:00,600
conversation like multiple times
in multiple relationships. 

745
00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:02,520
I mean, so many people have said
that so. 

746
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,400
Many people, man, it's so good. 
It's too real. 

747
00:36:05,480 --> 00:36:07,160
Yeah. 
Have you met Ruben? 

748
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:08,200
Did. 
You. 

749
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,360
No, I haven't. 
I haven't. 

750
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:12,280
No. 
He's a really he used to make he

751
00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:15,800
used to make ski videos. 
Oh, and, and I think yeah, and I

752
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:19,840
think, and I come from like 
skateboarding a little bit. 

753
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:22,920
So I understand the level of 
like doing it and doing it and 

754
00:36:22,920 --> 00:36:25,880
doing it until you get the trip.
Now I stopped a couple years 

755
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:26,160
ago. 
I. 

756
00:36:26,160 --> 00:36:29,080
Just pray for the best mate. 
Mate, I was breaking bones. 

757
00:36:29,120 --> 00:36:31,560
It was like. 
What have you, broken wrists? 

758
00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,760
Yeah. 
Ankle, you know, like districate

759
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:35,680
things. 
I just I. 

760
00:36:35,680 --> 00:36:37,920
Broke your wrist when I was like
15. 

761
00:36:37,920 --> 00:36:38,840
Did you? 
Yeah. 

762
00:36:38,840 --> 00:36:40,560
That's why I started surfing. 
So you surf as well. 

763
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:41,480
I surf now. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

764
00:36:41,480 --> 00:36:43,240
Yeah, have you broke anything 
surfing yet? 

765
00:36:43,240 --> 00:36:44,880
My toe. 
My toe. 

766
00:36:44,880 --> 00:36:47,560
Is the worst actually. 
But it's because I was like 

767
00:36:47,640 --> 00:36:51,280
Malibu, man, Malibu first point 
mental like it's like a long 

768
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:53,280
borders and. 
I know paddle borders, paddle 

769
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,160
borders. 
I broke 2 ribs last year. 

770
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:58,440
Riff was surfing. 
Yeah, that was my first. 

771
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,160
See. 
It's not any safer, really. 

772
00:37:00,200 --> 00:37:02,960
It is a bit safer, water is a 
little softer, but the reef and 

773
00:37:02,960 --> 00:37:04,600
the yeah. 
Other people. 

774
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:06,960
Other people, yeah. 
And like, yeah, how long have 

775
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,280
you been surfing for? 
I did it a little bit when I was

776
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:12,280
younger in Cornwall. 
That was kind of where I 

777
00:37:12,280 --> 00:37:14,480
learned. 
Like long boarding or or just 

778
00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:17,800
like soft top? 
Soft top and then I I got my own

779
00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:22,000
one and then I started going to 
America for work and stuff and 

780
00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:25,120
doing it there a bit. 
And then a friend of mine moved 

781
00:37:25,120 --> 00:37:29,360
to Cornwall and I just used to 
go and visit him whenever I was 

782
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:30,800
off and try and get some time 
in. 

783
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,520
And now I kind of like try and 
semi build my holidays around 

784
00:37:35,520 --> 00:37:36,480
it. 
Yeah, me too. 

785
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:38,640
Yeah. 
My girlfriend will let me but 

786
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:40,840
she. 
Has the perpetual surfers. 

787
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:41,800
Struggle. 
Yeah. 

788
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,880
Because it's addiction. 
It's an addiction. 

789
00:37:43,880 --> 00:37:45,680
It's an addiction. 
It's an addiction because I 

790
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:46,760
haven't surfed in so long 
though. 

791
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,480
I was literally just in Los 
Angeles for press for this and 

792
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:53,080
I, there was a well, awfulness 
of the hurricane in America 

793
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,080
right now, but there was this a 
swell from the hurricane that 

794
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,560
came to LA and, and it was like 
3 days that the, the summer has 

795
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:03,680
been really flat in LA and there
was three days that happened to 

796
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,800
coincide with me being there. 
And it was like beautiful, 

797
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,880
amazing waves everyday S swell. 
And it was really, it was 

798
00:38:09,880 --> 00:38:11,240
perfect. 
It was perfect, Yeah. 

799
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,400
Like nice fun size or like 
intimidating? 

800
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,520
Like head height, so like kind 
of fun and a little bit like on 

801
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,960
the edge for me because I had. 
Three to five or something like 

802
00:38:18,960 --> 00:38:21,200
4-5. 
Yeah, 345, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

803
00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:24,800
Anything beyond that, I'm yeah, 
I'm getting scared of. 

804
00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,320
Yeah, no, yeah, yeah, for sure. 
I'm like, I went to the 

805
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:30,400
Philippines and they were like 
fun but scary. 

806
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:31,800
I'm like, I'll get scared. 
I'm not. 

807
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:33,200
Yeah, no, I need people out 
again. 

808
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,360
I need like a director out 
there. 

809
00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:35,240
Yeah, yeah. 
I need. 

810
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,400
I need like, I need like, yeah, 
I need like Fincher out there 

811
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,400
with me just being like, the 
track is set. 

812
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:43,040
I've got you just go in. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

813
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:44,840
But also, I don't want to break 
any more bones, really. 

814
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,280
I'd rather not. 
Why did you stop surfing or how 

815
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,720
did you? 
Because of skating. 

816
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:50,040
Skating. 
Because I stopped skating. 

817
00:38:50,040 --> 00:38:51,920
Yeah. 
Did you see like skating South 

818
00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:54,840
Bank and like, yeah, yeah. 
Did you ever, like, do anything 

819
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,200
down that set of seven? 
That was my first seven set. 

820
00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:00,080
That was my first seven set. 
Did you? 

821
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,560
Was that your I? 
Kick flipped it once, did you? 

822
00:39:02,600 --> 00:39:06,480
That was my biggest moment. 
When I was like 16. 15 or 

823
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:08,560
something, Yeah, that was those 
were the days. 

824
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,480
Those were the best days. 
Me and my friends are from from 

825
00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:17,160
a little town in Surrey and, and
we would have to like, we would 

826
00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,440
have to tell our parents we're 
just going to go to Guildford or

827
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:20,800
we're just going to go to 
Kingston. 

828
00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:22,320
Why they didn't want you to go 
to London? 

829
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:24,360
Yeah, I don't know. 
There was like, well, my dad 

830
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:26,280
didn't want me to go to London 
because he was, you know, it was

831
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,280
just fear monger. 
He was just like you're going 

832
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:30,320
to, you're going to get murdered
in London. 

833
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:31,120
You're. 
Going to join again. 

834
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:33,440
And also, like, I work and 
you're going to join again and 

835
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:34,960
you're going to die from heroin 
Overdue. 

836
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,480
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. 
It's just inevitable. 

837
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:39,480
Especially skateboarding. 
Skaters. 

838
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:41,360
See that skate? 
He knows what's coming. 

839
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,560
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
And he used to work in London. 

840
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:45,920
He was like, I'll see you if you
sneak up, I'll see you. 

841
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,000
And I'm like fuck, my dad's 
gonna see me if I go to London. 

842
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,440
I didn't realise that London 
wasn't just a High Street. 

843
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,360
There was like 1 eyesight. 
Fuck guys, I can't go. 

844
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,000
My dad works there so I just. 
Really. 

845
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:57,040
Oh, he put the fear in. 
Me. 

846
00:39:57,040 --> 00:39:59,560
Oh yeah, he was good at that 
yeah, but it gave me a lot to 

847
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:01,480
kind of like wriggle out of as 
well and. 

848
00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:02,680
But you. 
Did used to go? 

849
00:40:02,720 --> 00:40:04,800
Yeah, yeah, used to sneak. 
That I'm not fucking no fucking 

850
00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:06,160
do you know what I mean? 
Like. 

851
00:40:06,480 --> 00:40:09,840
I don't know that name's Square.
I do. 

852
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,080
I want. 
But it's the same. 

853
00:40:11,320 --> 00:40:14,560
I do what I want, terrified. 
But also like with surfing, 

854
00:40:14,560 --> 00:40:16,400
because I used to be a swimmer, 
my dad a swimming coach. 

855
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:17,080
Yeah. 
Oh, really? 

856
00:40:17,120 --> 00:40:19,520
So I grew up swimming which. 
Was he your swimming coach? 

857
00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,480
Yeah, it's awful. 
It's intense, man. 

858
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:24,400
It's really intense. 
It was brutal. 

859
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:25,960
Yeah. 
So I stopped swimming. 

860
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:27,120
No. 
Wonder you're an actor? 

861
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:29,880
My brothers a doctor. 
I'm fucked man. 

862
00:40:30,080 --> 00:40:31,840
It's like, do you have any 
siblings? 

863
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:33,400
I do. 
I'm one of four, yeah. 

864
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,480
Oh wow, where are you? 
Like you? 

865
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:36,640
Are you like second youngest? 
I'm the youngest. 

866
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:39,280
You're the youngest, OK? 
Yeah, but carry on, carry on. 

867
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:41,520
But. 
Anyway, I think swimming turned 

868
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,240
into surfing. 
I just wanted to make whatever 

869
00:40:44,240 --> 00:40:46,600
that skill set was pleasurable 
because it wasn't pleasurable 

870
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,520
when I was just a swimmer of. 
Course, did you do it in the UK 

871
00:40:49,560 --> 00:40:50,400
or did you? 
Did you? 

872
00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:52,240
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, I was raised here and. 

873
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,800
Then London must have felt like 
a pretty. 

874
00:40:56,800 --> 00:40:59,880
I mean, you obviously grew up 
coming here, but yeah, in that 

875
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:02,400
sense, was it like, oh, OK, down
to London? 

876
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:04,800
Was there like an element of 
because I had that, I was in the

877
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,240
suburbs kind of. 
So I still had an element of, 

878
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:10,440
oh, I'm going into the yeah, 
yeah, the big thing that's like,

879
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:13,080
got it all and I can like have 
it all. 

880
00:41:13,240 --> 00:41:14,480
You know there's an element on 
there. 

881
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:18,320
I, when I, when I came, I moved 
up when I was 17 to, to study 

882
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:21,360
acting at Central School Speech 
and Drama in Swiss Cottage, 

883
00:41:21,640 --> 00:41:24,560
northwest London. 
Before then I was, you know, 

884
00:41:24,720 --> 00:41:27,280
just kind of stuck at school. 
I was just like, I don't know. 

885
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:31,680
I don't really know why I'm 
alive actually. 

886
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,560
I was like once I stopped 
skating and once, like all my 

887
00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,600
mates started going to the pub 
because they looked five years 

888
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:37,840
older than me. 
Yeah. 

889
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:39,320
And I was like. 
Oh, you looked young. 

890
00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:40,600
Too. 
I was like, I looked young and I

891
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:41,720
was like. 
Me too. 

892
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:44,480
Yeah, I was just like at home, 
like fingerboarding. 

893
00:41:44,760 --> 00:41:47,480
Yeah, tech decks I was. 
Just like tech deck, just like 

894
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:49,480
fuck. 
And I couldn't get into the pub.

895
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:51,880
I couldn't I couldn't get like a
fake ID that worked because I 

896
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:54,040
just looked like a some kind of 
amoeba. 

897
00:41:54,040 --> 00:41:57,120
I was just like a little like a 
what single, single cell 

898
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:00,040
Organism. 
I just looked like, like a 

899
00:42:00,040 --> 00:42:01,760
child. 
Yeah. 

900
00:42:02,280 --> 00:42:05,560
So to be honest, acting did kind
of saved me in a way like, oh, 

901
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,160
didn't acting did. 
And then it kind of got me out 

902
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:11,560
of, got me out of a kind of rut 
that I could have been in, I 

903
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,840
think when I was a kid because I
feel like the Truman Show, when 

904
00:42:14,840 --> 00:42:16,520
it's when it's like, I know 
there's something else. 

905
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,160
I have no idea what it is. 
And there's probably a door in 

906
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:21,760
this sky. 
I just don't know how to access 

907
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,080
it. 
But but I knew that if I didn't 

908
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,160
access it, I was going to be in 
trouble with myself. 

909
00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:29,400
You see that with people that 
well, even myself when you're 

910
00:42:29,400 --> 00:42:33,360
like looking, how important it 
is to be a part of a tribe where

911
00:42:33,480 --> 00:42:37,040
you're looking for your tribe 
for sure and like as a kid or 

912
00:42:37,040 --> 00:42:39,240
kids should explore so many 
different things. 

913
00:42:39,240 --> 00:42:41,560
That's. 
Like but for you it was skating 

914
00:42:41,560 --> 00:42:44,040
and then. 
Yeah, like, I probably thought I

915
00:42:44,040 --> 00:42:45,760
was going to be a pro skateboard
at one point. 

916
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:47,960
I was nowhere near good enough. 
But it was like, you know, 

917
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,280
that's it. 
That's that's what's on the 

918
00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:52,920
horizon, you know, like get 
sponsored, you know, making us 

919
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:58,520
sponsor me videos, whack them on
YouTube and maybe a Monster or a

920
00:42:58,520 --> 00:43:00,240
Red Bull might give me a 
sponsorship. 

921
00:43:00,240 --> 00:43:02,680
Just doing like a pop shove it. 
Yeah, yeah, a fakey pop. 

922
00:43:02,680 --> 00:43:05,880
Shove it. 
You know, I think that like it 

923
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,040
was a very important like hobby 
because it because it community,

924
00:43:10,240 --> 00:43:14,480
community, yeah. 
So yeah, yeah, yeah. 

925
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,320
And again, it, it forced me to 
like get out of my own little 

926
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:24,760
microcosm and explore the London
that I but ultimately I'm now 

927
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:27,640
like in tune with a little bit, 
you know, and the side of the 

928
00:43:27,640 --> 00:43:31,960
things that interested me 
because I think it was kind of 

929
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:35,200
like it's kind of provincial 
where I grew up so. 

930
00:43:35,280 --> 00:43:37,440
Right, right. 
It's like suburbs, East London, 

931
00:43:37,440 --> 00:43:40,640
so it does feel a little bit 
like it's own little bubble. 

932
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:43,120
And yeah, skateboarding helped 
me get out of that, but. 

933
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:45,720
Yeah, but when? 
When did acting come around for 

934
00:43:45,720 --> 00:43:48,560
you? 
I was doing it at school like 

935
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:49,600
the just. 
For fun. 

936
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:52,000
Just for fun and then. 
Was there any part of me that 

937
00:43:52,000 --> 00:43:54,520
was like, I love this and I want
to pursue it? 

938
00:43:54,520 --> 00:43:56,920
Or was it just? 
No, not really. 

939
00:43:57,280 --> 00:43:59,160
I was. 
I was making videos a lot. 

940
00:43:59,160 --> 00:44:02,000
I had this web series, like a 
sketch show that I was doing. 

941
00:44:02,000 --> 00:44:05,360
Yeah, that was like my what I 
thought I was going to do, maybe

942
00:44:05,360 --> 00:44:07,280
like I was and then I was. 
You and mates. 

943
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,160
Me and mates, but it was like it
was my thing that I could sort 

944
00:44:10,160 --> 00:44:12,360
of put together and I'd I'd rope
other people into. 

945
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:15,720
It and when you were how old? 
I probably started doing it when

946
00:44:15,720 --> 00:44:18,240
I was like 11 or 12. 
Oh. 

947
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:19,200
That's. 
Sick. 

948
00:44:19,200 --> 00:44:20,120
I was. 
Yeah, I was. 

949
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:22,680
I was young and. 
They were you had like early 

950
00:44:22,680 --> 00:44:26,000
like what kind of what kind of 
videos I want to can we see? 

951
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:28,320
These no. 
I stupidly deleted them all. 

952
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:30,320
Probably you know. 
They're not so stupid. 

953
00:44:30,320 --> 00:44:31,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
But the best. 

954
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,920
But they were. 
We started out doing like 

955
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,520
Rainiers, Bear Grylls, like 
spoofs in the forest. 

956
00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:43,400
And then we started doing like 
Harry Potter spoofs and then we 

957
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:48,320
would do like a weekly sort of 
skits and put them on YouTube 

958
00:44:48,320 --> 00:44:50,400
and there was like 4 people at 
school that watched them. 

959
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,920
They'll be like, you got them up
this week and they'll be like, 

960
00:44:52,920 --> 00:44:54,080
yeah, they're coming, man. 
They're coming. 

961
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,920
Ease off, ease off. 
Relax, man. 

962
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,600
Come on. 
And then. 

963
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:02,160
And then, yeah. 
And then I think I started 

964
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:04,760
acting a little bit later. 
And then because I never put 

965
00:45:04,760 --> 00:45:07,120
myself in them, I was like, oh, 
I just need to like. 

966
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:08,680
Be behind? 
Yeah, No. 

967
00:45:08,760 --> 00:45:10,440
This is it, man. 
I just want to be on the camera.

968
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,560
And then I I did a few plays and
I did. 

969
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:15,920
Do you know national 
connections? 

970
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:18,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I did. 
Oh, so cool. 

971
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,160
We got some. 
We got some connections. 

972
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:22,880
Did you do that as well? 
I was in there was a there was a

973
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:25,840
series of the one of the first 
plays I did. 

974
00:45:25,840 --> 00:45:28,800
It was a trilogy of plays, kind 
of came out of the connections 

975
00:45:29,320 --> 00:45:32,080
and it was at the National at 
the Cottesloe Theatre, which is 

976
00:45:32,080 --> 00:45:33,520
now the. 
Shed. 

977
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:36,960
No, no, the smaller of the three
theatres, there's Littleton 

978
00:45:36,960 --> 00:45:40,480
Olivier and then there's the 
there used to be the cots as low

979
00:45:40,720 --> 00:45:42,200
doesn't matter, but yeah, 
connections. 

980
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,480
Yeah, it was like 3, like 1 was 
Ender Walsh. 

981
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:48,520
Another one was Mark Ravenhill. 
But anyway, OK, cool. 

982
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,640
So I did that and then I think 
after that I was, I was, I 

983
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:53,680
probably like got the bug a 
little bit and. 

984
00:45:53,720 --> 00:45:55,240
How did you get to the 
connections though? 

985
00:45:55,240 --> 00:45:57,160
How did that happen? 
Well, I went to like there was a

986
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,360
local theatre school in in 
Walthamstow called Raw Academy. 

987
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:07,600
They were like a really 
affordable theatre school run by

988
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:09,960
actors. 
That kind of changed my 

989
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,360
perspective. 
Amazing. 

990
00:46:11,360 --> 00:46:14,800
That changed my opinion of it. 
And all of a sudden there was an

991
00:46:14,800 --> 00:46:17,040
access to the, to the, to the 
world. 

992
00:46:17,040 --> 00:46:21,280
And I understood that there 
could be a path there. 

993
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:25,920
And I almost joined the military
and the, the my acting teacher 

994
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:27,000
was like, why are you doing 
that? 

995
00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:28,320
Why? 
Why were you thinking of doing 

996
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,280
that? 
Because I, I was in the Marine 

997
00:46:30,280 --> 00:46:32,880
cadets for years. 
I don't know why really. 

998
00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:35,800
I just again trying to find 
Triumph, trying to find 

999
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:37,520
community and. 
Purpose. 

1000
00:46:37,640 --> 00:46:39,280
Yeah, structure, all of that 
something. 

1001
00:46:39,320 --> 00:46:40,360
Bigger. 
Yeah. 

1002
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:43,040
And I was quite chubby, so I was
like, I need to lose weight as 

1003
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:43,520
well. 
Yeah. 

1004
00:46:43,760 --> 00:46:46,520
I need to go and do something 
that's going to like, yeah, get 

1005
00:46:46,520 --> 00:46:49,400
me trim because I'm, I'm fed up 
of being a, a chubby boy. 

1006
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:51,160
Yeah. 
Hashtag chubby boy. 

1007
00:46:51,160 --> 00:46:55,480
It's just going to be chubby boy
ending after this Bo I I think. 

1008
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:59,680
Chubby, but I so yeah. 
And then and then and then that 

1009
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,040
happened. 
And now I'm like, so grateful 

1010
00:47:02,040 --> 00:47:05,640
that I got stared into this 
because yeah, I love it. 

1011
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:06,800
Yeah. 
But it was. 

1012
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,960
Did you always want to do it? 
What was your? 

1013
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:11,600
Kind of similar man I had out. 
I was lost. 

1014
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:14,360
I was lost when I was a teen. 
I was just like, you know what 

1015
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:16,640
we're talking about earlier, 
like all the sibling that was 

1016
00:47:16,640 --> 00:47:20,840
just this very high achieving 
head boy of the school, you 

1017
00:47:20,840 --> 00:47:25,040
know, captain of all these, you 
know, whatever doctor in the 

1018
00:47:25,040 --> 00:47:28,400
making. 
And then I was like, what use am

1019
00:47:28,400 --> 00:47:30,160
I here? 
Like a little bit. 

1020
00:47:30,160 --> 00:47:33,160
And I was like, I don't want to 
do the things that I'm being 

1021
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:35,520
told I want to do. 
I was, you know, I did want to 

1022
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,640
just skate and I didn't want to 
just kind of fuck around really.

1023
00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:42,320
I was a an idiot in a in a way 
that now has paid off. 

1024
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:44,240
But like, at the time it wasn't 
really valued. 

1025
00:47:44,480 --> 00:47:47,320
And I understand why. 
But yeah, I just kind of got 

1026
00:47:47,320 --> 00:47:48,680
lost. 
And I was like, I don't know 

1027
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,920
what exists that could work. 
And it was my mother that really

1028
00:47:51,920 --> 00:47:55,120
just kind of and was like, well,
what about something creative as

1029
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:55,480
I. 
Tried. 

1030
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:57,840
Yeah, it's great. 
Yeah, it's amazing. 

1031
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:01,160
And so I tried like art, music, 
and I liked all of those things,

1032
00:48:01,160 --> 00:48:03,440
but it didn't feel, just 
probably wasn't good enough for 

1033
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,400
them, to be honest. 
And I wanted to be an athlete. 

1034
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,000
I wanted to play basketball, to 
be a skateboarder. 

1035
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,560
But I like you, you know, those 
dreams kind of had to perish. 

1036
00:48:12,640 --> 00:48:14,640
And then, yeah, I did. 
Basketball player, man. 

1037
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,840
Yeah, that would be, yeah. 
Can you imagine? 

1038
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,200
Me and you do you do you? 
Who? 

1039
00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:20,920
Me and you, man. 
Do you play? 

1040
00:48:20,920 --> 00:48:21,680
We could. 
Have been some? 

1041
00:48:21,680 --> 00:48:24,360
Do you actually play basketball?
Yeah, I like basketball. 

1042
00:48:24,360 --> 00:48:26,840
Because I'm looking, I always 
look for people to play with in 

1043
00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:27,880
London. 
Let's do it. 

1044
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:30,120
Finsbury Park. 
I'd love as far as Winsbury 

1045
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:31,080
Park. 
No, that's where I go. 

1046
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:32,960
Is that where you go? 
Well, sometimes I've got a mate 

1047
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,840
who plays there with me. 
Yeah, they got good pick up 

1048
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:36,520
games there, Yeah. 
Yeah, yeah, I'm rubbish, but I 

1049
00:48:36,520 --> 00:48:37,560
love it. 
I love it too. 

1050
00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,200
I'm not, I'm by no means good. 
I just really enjoy it just in 

1051
00:48:40,200 --> 00:48:42,360
the same way I like surfing. 
It's like, yeah, there are two 

1052
00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:44,800
things that I and tennis like. 
There are like two or three 

1053
00:48:44,800 --> 00:48:47,280
things where I'm just like, 
these are just for me and I 

1054
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,880
don't get, I don't have to like 
put any pressure on them. 

1055
00:48:49,880 --> 00:48:52,920
They're just like pleasure. 
Yeah, yeah, I'm watching 

1056
00:48:52,920 --> 00:48:55,200
basketball for the first time. 
Was like, whoa, yeah. 

1057
00:48:55,320 --> 00:48:57,280
Being a game was like, oh. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1058
00:48:57,280 --> 00:48:58,120
It's. 
Mental. 

1059
00:48:58,120 --> 00:48:59,360
No, it's the best. 
The best. 

1060
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,480
It's balletic. 
It's like poetry. 

1061
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:02,840
Yeah. 
And that Michael Jordan 

1062
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:05,320
documentary, like, got so many 
other people into it. 

1063
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:07,480
And, like, I've seen that film 
like, five times. 

1064
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:10,040
I just like, crazy about that. 
And Hoop Dreams is such one of 

1065
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:11,880
my favorite movies. 
I've seen hoop dreams. 

1066
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:14,360
I've seen that so. 
Criterion Collection documentary

1067
00:49:14,360 --> 00:49:17,400
about like young, like high 
school school students who like 

1068
00:49:17,720 --> 00:49:19,280
they follow. 
It follows a few different high 

1069
00:49:19,280 --> 00:49:22,320
school kids in America who are 
like, it's like from the 80s and

1070
00:49:22,320 --> 00:49:25,720
the 90s who are like college 
prospects or MBA prospects. 

1071
00:49:25,720 --> 00:49:27,840
And it's about following all 
their different stories. 

1072
00:49:27,840 --> 00:49:30,920
And it's so beautiful, stunning.
You'll dig it. 

1073
00:49:30,920 --> 00:49:32,160
You'll definitely dig it. 
What's it called? 

1074
00:49:32,360 --> 00:49:33,560
Hoop Dreams. 
Hoop Dreams. 

1075
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,560
I just watched the is it is it 
Steph Curry? 

1076
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:40,520
I haven't seen this documentary.
That's good, but thank God that 

1077
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:43,520
your mum supported that because 
so many, so many people don't. 

1078
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:47,280
Well, also I was thinking about 
like raw the outside of like 

1079
00:49:47,280 --> 00:49:49,000
thank God for those fucking 
programs. 

1080
00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:51,760
Like, honestly, and thank God, 
there was something near nearby 

1081
00:49:51,760 --> 00:49:55,200
the Epsom Playhouse for me. 
There was like an A workshop 

1082
00:49:55,200 --> 00:49:57,120
outside of school when I was 15 
that I was just like, oh, I 

1083
00:49:57,120 --> 00:49:58,880
really like this, actually. 
This feels really good. 

1084
00:49:59,480 --> 00:50:02,880
And then I had to add a teacher 
at school that was just that. 

1085
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,000
I think we need. 
You must have had a couple of 

1086
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,080
mentors that were like, oh, hey,
I see you. 

1087
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,440
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
Chubby boy, you got you got 

1088
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:11,240
something to give here? 
I see you, chubby boy. 

1089
00:50:11,240 --> 00:50:12,320
I. 
See you, chubby boy. 

1090
00:50:12,360 --> 00:50:16,720
There goes chubby boy. 
So like, I think those moments 

1091
00:50:16,720 --> 00:50:19,560
are the most kind of vital ones.
I don't know. 

1092
00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:20,760
I kind of want to. 
I don't know about you. 

1093
00:50:20,760 --> 00:50:22,760
I just want to now position 
myself. 

1094
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,600
To be able to give those moments
to other people feels really 

1095
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,000
important. 
Yeah. 

1096
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,760
Do you get people reaching out? 
Do you have anyone in your life 

1097
00:50:30,760 --> 00:50:33,720
that is that you've? 
Because that's a nice thing to 

1098
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:35,560
offer. 
That's a good like gift to be 

1099
00:50:35,560 --> 00:50:39,080
able to share the share the love
of it is there Is there anyone 

1100
00:50:39,080 --> 00:50:41,000
that's ever tried? 
I'm sure a lot of people try and

1101
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:43,600
reach out to but it's. 
I'm always up for it. 

1102
00:50:43,600 --> 00:50:47,120
Yeah, I love it. 
I really, it makes me feel like 

1103
00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,440
I I'll sometimes go back and do 
stuff at my old drama school. 

1104
00:50:50,960 --> 00:50:53,040
But yeah, otherwise I'm just 
like, if there's a genuine 

1105
00:50:53,040 --> 00:50:55,680
connection, if there's someone 
that's genuinely like, I don't 

1106
00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,240
know, it feels cold to our 
world, then I, I mean, like, 

1107
00:50:59,280 --> 00:51:00,880
what better than to help 
someone? 

1108
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:02,720
But even like like this or like 
I don't. 

1109
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:04,280
Know will you will you be my 
mentor I. 

1110
00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:05,840
Don't know but like. 
Really. 

1111
00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:07,880
And likewise, it's a two way 
street. 

1112
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:10,760
I think like that's the thing. 
It's like we mentor each other 

1113
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,320
and like, and I need older 
people and I need younger people

1114
00:51:13,320 --> 00:51:15,680
in my life. 
Like nothing I like better than 

1115
00:51:15,680 --> 00:51:18,240
hanging out with like I have a 
really close friend, Nat Nat 

1116
00:51:18,240 --> 00:51:20,120
Wolf, you know, Nat. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1117
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:21,920
He's like you're, he's like 
10:30 this year actually. 

1118
00:51:22,440 --> 00:51:25,680
But he, I became friends with 
him on a, on a gig and we kind 

1119
00:51:25,680 --> 00:51:28,080
of mentor each other. 
Like I, he has stuff for me that

1120
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:31,640
I need and, and take inspiration
from, and I have stuff for him 

1121
00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:32,840
that he needs and takes 
inspiration. 

1122
00:51:33,480 --> 00:51:36,200
And I don't think it happens as 
much as it maybe should because 

1123
00:51:36,200 --> 00:51:38,840
I think we're kind of pitted 
against each other more often 

1124
00:51:39,560 --> 00:51:41,960
than place in community. 
And I love what you, you've been

1125
00:51:41,960 --> 00:51:43,280
saying about tribe and 
community. 

1126
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:45,200
And it's like, I remember 
getting to drama school for the 

1127
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:46,880
first time and just being like, 
oh, yeah. 

1128
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,000
Thank God. 
Yeah. 

1129
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:48,800
Oh. 
Thank God. 

1130
00:51:48,800 --> 00:51:50,840
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah, even though I'm, I'm, you 

1131
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,280
know, it's, it was imperfect. 
It was like, at least there's a 

1132
00:51:54,280 --> 00:51:57,360
language here and at least 
there's like a a shared longing 

1133
00:51:57,360 --> 00:52:01,320
or something or a shared 
intention or I share curiosity. 

1134
00:52:01,320 --> 00:52:05,520
Like we're all like in black 
leotards pretending to be farm 

1135
00:52:05,520 --> 00:52:08,480
animals together and we all feel
as ridiculous as each other, but

1136
00:52:08,480 --> 00:52:11,760
we're all kind of into it, like.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1137
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,120
Did you finish drama school or 
did you start working? 

1138
00:52:14,440 --> 00:52:17,480
I finished, but I I started 
doing my first play, my first 2 

1139
00:52:17,480 --> 00:52:19,320
plays while I was still in 3rd 
year. 

1140
00:52:19,360 --> 00:52:21,960
Yeah, I did a play called Kess, 
like the Ken Loach film. 

1141
00:52:21,960 --> 00:52:23,200
Do you ever see that Ken Loach 
film? 

1142
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:25,800
No way. 
No way. 

1143
00:52:25,800 --> 00:52:27,520
It's kind of embarrassing. 
No, it's not. 

1144
00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:29,080
That's sick. 
It's one of. 

1145
00:52:29,160 --> 00:52:33,680
My favorite films. 
Man, I saw that tattoo in in the

1146
00:52:33,680 --> 00:52:34,960
film and baby girl, I was like 
I. 

1147
00:52:34,960 --> 00:52:36,480
Probably should have covered it 
up, but. 

1148
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:39,560
Well, I, I was like, I wonder if
that's character and if it is 

1149
00:52:39,560 --> 00:52:41,960
character, is it? 
You did cares on stage. 

1150
00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:43,680
Yeah, at Manchester Royal 
Exchange. 

1151
00:52:44,120 --> 00:52:45,080
Have you been to that? 
Theatre. 

1152
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:46,880
No, my dad's from that way as 
well. 

1153
00:52:46,880 --> 00:52:49,040
I didn't know about. 
That he's from, he's from 

1154
00:52:49,040 --> 00:52:51,000
Manchester. 
He's from near Manchester, He's 

1155
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:53,440
from a place called Preston. 
How long was the run I? 

1156
00:52:53,600 --> 00:52:55,800
Forget it was like my second 
play out of drama school. 

1157
00:52:55,800 --> 00:53:00,120
So I was 20 and I played Billy. 
I played Billy Casper. 

1158
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,720
Oh man. 
And I oh man, you know, that's 

1159
00:53:04,720 --> 00:53:05,880
great. 
I love that you have that. 

1160
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:08,200
It's so embarrassing. 
It's always so tender. 

1161
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:10,920
Who was I talking to about this?
I was talking to another another

1162
00:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,640
friend about this film and about
why, why it's so important. 

1163
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,800
And it's it kind of doesn't bear
analysis, like it's beyond 

1164
00:53:18,800 --> 00:53:21,320
analysis. 
But I think I don't know. 

1165
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:24,920
For me it was like if I could 
reduce it, which is impossible. 

1166
00:53:24,920 --> 00:53:27,680
But it's like, I think we all 
feel exiled. 

1167
00:53:27,680 --> 00:53:31,520
We all feel somehow 
disenfranchised, deemed as 

1168
00:53:31,520 --> 00:53:36,040
useless, deemed as, I don't 
know, like not necessary in in 

1169
00:53:36,040 --> 00:53:39,440
fact, more so like a hassle, 
like ostracized. 

1170
00:53:40,120 --> 00:53:44,480
And there's something about that
character finding tribe and 

1171
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:49,760
finding belonging in what in in 
wildness and his own wildness 

1172
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:54,280
and the wildness of the bird and
the wildness of nature and, and 

1173
00:53:54,280 --> 00:53:57,160
feeling a, a true connection to 
being alive. 

1174
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,600
Like, like not unlike when, when
we fucking hit that South Bank 

1175
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:07,920
7, not unlike when and, and, and
some some strange skateboarders 

1176
00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,600
that we didn't know would like 
banging their boards because 

1177
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,080
the, the little groms, the 
little groms made it. 

1178
00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:18,440
And not unlike you at RAW or me 
at my extracurricular drama 

1179
00:54:18,760 --> 00:54:22,720
school plays. 
Yeah, That film and that story 

1180
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,080
is kind of a template of 
everything I want to make, 

1181
00:54:27,080 --> 00:54:28,480
really. 
And the kind of soul of what I 

1182
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:33,040
want to put into the world and 
the kind of stories I want to 

1183
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:33,880
tell. 
That's so cool. 

1184
00:54:33,880 --> 00:54:35,480
That. 
That's so cool. 

1185
00:54:35,680 --> 00:54:36,800
How old were you when you got 
that? 

1186
00:54:37,720 --> 00:54:40,560
I got it like a couple of years 
ago, but it's always been like a

1187
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,080
really special film. 
I've always, my dad showed it to

1188
00:54:44,080 --> 00:54:46,080
me really young. 
And yeah, all of the things you 

1189
00:54:46,080 --> 00:54:50,440
talk about was like blew my 
little, blew my little head off 

1190
00:54:50,440 --> 00:54:51,840
and. 
That's so cool. 

1191
00:54:52,280 --> 00:54:57,120
So your dad was a film person? 
Kind of my dad's still around. 

1192
00:54:57,120 --> 00:55:01,120
Yeah, yeah, my dad, my dad does 
know his films, but I think that

1193
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:05,760
was probably just a a connection
with the sort of northern nature

1194
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:07,360
as well that he was like, you 
need to see this. 

1195
00:55:07,360 --> 00:55:09,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
My mum My mum knew her films, 

1196
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,720
but. 
Is your mum around still? 

1197
00:55:11,800 --> 00:55:14,000
Yeah, yeah, OK, good. 
Your parents around. 

1198
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:18,120
My mum passed five years ago, my
dad is around, he's coming to 

1199
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,280
the We Have premiere of London 
Film Festival premiere of our 

1200
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:23,120
film tonight. 
Tonight, Yeah. 

1201
00:55:23,120 --> 00:55:24,560
Oh. 
Man, yeah, I'm knackered. 

1202
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:27,240
Enjoy. 
It try it all my old school 

1203
00:55:27,240 --> 00:55:28,520
mates what used to skate where 
they're coming. 

1204
00:55:28,520 --> 00:55:30,240
They're coming. 
Yeah, with all their wives. 

1205
00:55:30,240 --> 00:55:32,360
Nice. 
Nice, nice kids. 

1206
00:55:32,360 --> 00:55:34,840
Any kids in the mix? 
Not yeah, there are kids, but 

1207
00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:37,960
they're they're not it's an R 
rated it's like 18 I think, or 

1208
00:55:37,960 --> 00:55:39,840
15. 
So they, the kids can't come. 

1209
00:55:39,880 --> 00:55:42,920
Has your dad seen it? 
No, I'm concerned for him to see

1210
00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:43,600
it. 
Why? 

1211
00:55:44,240 --> 00:55:47,800
Well, because of the what it's 
about and because it's about the

1212
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,760
a relationship and, you know, a 
loss in a relationship and, you 

1213
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,440
know, he's he's obviously been 
through that in the last five 

1214
00:55:54,440 --> 00:55:56,440
years and he's still going 
through it in his own way. 

1215
00:55:56,880 --> 00:55:58,880
So I'm going to sit in and I'm 
going to watch it with him. 

1216
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,280
Yeah. 
I'm going to sit next to him and

1217
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:01,800
just kind of like be there. 
Yeah. 

1218
00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:04,640
I think. 
I think it's like, sorry, going 

1219
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:08,920
back to we, we're not saving 
lives, but like, I don't know to

1220
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:12,480
to be able to create moments of 
healing potentially to set up. 

1221
00:56:12,720 --> 00:56:15,200
Who knows, he might watch him be
like, yeah, it's not your best 

1222
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:15,600
work. 
It's. 

1223
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:19,120
Like a load of shit, it's. 
Absolutely possible, but it's 

1224
00:56:19,120 --> 00:56:20,360
also. 
Possible to be honest with you. 

1225
00:56:20,480 --> 00:56:22,680
Oh yeah, but it's also possible 
that he might just get cracked 

1226
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,840
open by it. 
And it might, it might unlock 

1227
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:29,280
some more grief or it might 
unlock some more healing and 

1228
00:56:29,280 --> 00:56:34,040
more like remembrance or more, 
it might make some sense of his 

1229
00:56:34,040 --> 00:56:36,480
pain more if he feels less alone
than it or whatever. 

1230
00:56:36,480 --> 00:56:39,000
And I want to, I want to be 
there with him. 

1231
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:40,960
And part of the reason why I 
took the film was because of 

1232
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,600
that, to be honest, That because
of what he'd been, he'd, he'd 

1233
00:56:43,600 --> 00:56:45,840
gone through and what we'd all 
gone through and losing my mum. 

1234
00:56:46,400 --> 00:56:50,960
And it felt like a film that 
could honor that experience in 

1235
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:54,200
some kind of way and make it 
universal and give solace to a 

1236
00:56:54,720 --> 00:56:56,920
bunch of people who obviously 
going through the same shit that

1237
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,520
I'm going through, right. 
The garden variety thing, you 

1238
00:56:59,520 --> 00:57:00,880
know? 
And like, again, that 

1239
00:57:00,880 --> 00:57:04,400
connective, it's like, oh God, 
yeah, we're all just going 

1240
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,240
through the same shit at 
different times. 

1241
00:57:06,560 --> 00:57:09,360
And how wonderful is it that we 
get to like hold each other as 

1242
00:57:09,360 --> 00:57:12,680
we're as we're doing it? 
Time to wrap up. 

1243
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:14,280
Time. 
To wrap up, wait, should we do a

1244
00:57:14,280 --> 00:57:16,320
couple of these? 
All right, let's just do rapid 

1245
00:57:16,320 --> 00:57:17,640
fire. 
Let's just, no, you just want, 

1246
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,400
let's just fuck around. 
What were these? 

1247
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:22,160
Harris does not like these. 
These What's your favorite post 

1248
00:57:22,160 --> 00:57:24,880
shoot meal? 
Oh, I don't mind that I like a 

1249
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:26,040
bit. 
Let's do it. 

1250
00:57:26,040 --> 00:57:27,600
Let's do it. 
Go, go, go, Yeah. 

1251
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,840
It's not that nourishing 
ourselves is super superficial. 

1252
00:57:31,840 --> 00:57:34,200
Answer the question. 
Fucking hell, man, you wanted 

1253
00:57:34,200 --> 00:57:36,720
QuickTime? 
Stop rambling, Garfield. 

1254
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:39,720
I don't know, Like a spag bowl? 
Like a nice spag bowl with a lot

1255
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:40,760
of parmesan. 
What about you? 

1256
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:44,040
Burger and chips. 
Where from? 

1257
00:57:44,040 --> 00:57:45,360
What's your favorite burger in 
London? 

1258
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,000
Maybe five guys, Five guys good.
Yeah, yeah, five guys good. 

1259
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:51,920
Maybe in and out if I'm in 
America. 

1260
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:55,240
Yeah, in California, if you 
could be be in a remake of any 

1261
00:57:55,240 --> 00:57:57,840
film, what would it be? 
Well, that's quite good 

1262
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,840
actually. 
Secret Garden, But they did 

1263
00:58:00,840 --> 00:58:02,800
that, so that's a bad one. 
What about you? 

1264
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:04,920
You know what, white men can't 
jump. 

1265
00:58:04,920 --> 00:58:06,760
But they just did that already 
with Jack Harlow. 

1266
00:58:06,760 --> 00:58:08,760
So I don't want to be in a 
remake of a remake. 

1267
00:58:08,760 --> 00:58:11,320
If you could work with a former 
Co star again, who would that 

1268
00:58:11,320 --> 00:58:15,440
be? 
Emma Corin loved, loved that 

1269
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:16,000
very much. 
What? 

1270
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,040
Do you guys do together? 
We did a series called Murder at

1271
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,520
the End of the World, and we had
a very fun time. 

1272
00:58:21,160 --> 00:58:22,120
Yeah, amazing. 
She. 

1273
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:23,320
Seems really great. 
And you? 

1274
00:58:23,920 --> 00:58:25,840
God, I mean multiple, a lot of 
people. 

1275
00:58:25,840 --> 00:58:30,560
Jesse Eisenberg, Sally Field. 
Jesse just made a film. 

1276
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:32,400
I know. 
Yeah, I'm so excited to see it. 

1277
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:34,360
Mine Sheen. 
I'd like to play mine Sheen. 

1278
00:58:34,640 --> 00:58:38,440
Vincent D'onofrio. 
God, a lot of people. 

1279
00:58:39,280 --> 00:58:41,600
Which of each other's films 
would you like to star in? 

1280
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:43,120
That's a good one. 
Social network. 

1281
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:45,720
OK, sounds like. 
Yeah, no hesitation. 

1282
00:58:45,800 --> 00:58:47,560
I would say. 
And spider man, you and my 

1283
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:48,760
spider man. 
Oh, thanks dude. 

1284
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:50,400
So maybe, maybe spider man 
thanks. 

1285
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:53,040
Can I have two? 
Yeah, I'm going to take two. 

1286
00:58:53,040 --> 00:58:54,800
I'm going to take triangle, 
sadness and and baby girl. 

1287
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:57,760
Actually, do you believe there's
one great love for each person? 

1288
00:58:58,440 --> 00:59:00,760
One great love. 
Yeah, I don't think so. 

1289
00:59:00,760 --> 00:59:03,640
I don't think so, no. 
I think love is an unconditioned

1290
00:59:03,960 --> 00:59:07,960
energy that is in always around 
and we either are tuned into it 

1291
00:59:07,960 --> 00:59:09,360
or not and it can exist 
anywhere. 

1292
00:59:09,560 --> 00:59:11,040
Yeah, that's nice. 
I like that. 

1293
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:13,240
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1294
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:15,720
Which one of your characters 
most like you in real life? 

1295
00:59:16,200 --> 00:59:18,120
It's revealing. 
Yeah, let's not do that. 

1296
00:59:18,360 --> 00:59:20,520
What are you reading right now? 
Any book recommendations? 

1297
00:59:21,080 --> 00:59:23,400
I'm reading a book about the 
60s. 

1298
00:59:23,680 --> 00:59:26,400
What about you? 
You want to talk more about 

1299
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:27,680
that? 
No is. 

1300
00:59:28,040 --> 00:59:29,440
It because you're making a film.
Yeah. 

1301
00:59:29,840 --> 00:59:33,720
And it's like it's it's yeah. 
What am I reading right now? 

1302
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:35,440
Yeah, I can't say what I'm 
reading either because it's also

1303
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:37,360
to do with the project. 
I'm not a good reader. 

1304
00:59:37,360 --> 00:59:38,600
I like. 
I'm I'm a slow reader. 

1305
00:59:38,600 --> 00:59:39,760
Me too. 
I like listening. 

1306
00:59:39,760 --> 00:59:41,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 
I'm listening to Mike Nichols 

1307
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:43,240
biography right now, which is 
really great. 

1308
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,920
Maybe we should just end this. 
And I love baby girl, man, I 

1309
00:59:45,920 --> 00:59:47,520
think baby girl is so. 
Fucking brilliant. 

1310
00:59:47,520 --> 00:59:48,760
Love your film too. 
Thank you. 

1311
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:50,040
I'm really excited for everyone 
to see it. 

1312
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,240
Good luck tonight. 
Yeah, good luck with your flight

1313
00:59:52,240 --> 00:59:54,240
and you're going to get, you're 
going to LA, you're going to get

1314
00:59:54,240 --> 00:59:55,600
some waves. 
Yeah, I'm going to try. 

1315
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:57,120
Where do you? 
Where are you going to go? 

1316
00:59:57,120 --> 00:59:58,640
Where do you surf at first 
point? 

1317
00:59:58,640 --> 01:00:01,160
First point. 
Or maybe the colony, I don't 

1318
01:00:01,160 --> 01:00:01,880
know. 
Nice. 

1319
01:00:01,920 --> 01:00:04,080
Maybe I'll go further up. 
Let me know. 

1320
01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:05,840
We'll figure. 
We'll talk after the cameras. 

1321
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:10,600
Thanks for listening. 
The A 24 podcast is produced by 

1322
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,120
us A 24. 
Special thanks to our editor Tom

1323
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:16,600
Wyatt and Robot Repair, who 
composed our theme.